game-update

[vagrant solstice]

Anything goin on for this update? Or is it another quiet one for sailing

[opal urchin]

I guess I will post here that hiscores seem down: https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore_oldschool/overall

I don't know if this was supposed to happen pre-update, but it did happen

[nocturne solstice]

Looks like its fixed, link works for me.

[opal urchin]

hooray!

[nocturne solstice]

Not much, just fixes mostly. Also Halloween is over.

[dense oriole]

I forgot to do it 😭

[nocturne solstice]

You have 5 minutes

[dense oriole]

haha I sadly can't (even if it was that fast)

[nocturne solstice]

F

Better luck next year

As far as I know though, birthday event might unlock every reward for past holidays so

might get lucky there

[dense oriole]

I think the past ones I'm covered on my current character. Missed this years tho

[frozen lion]

Downtime?

[opal urchin]

#game-news message

[cunning root]

No expected downtime today buddy

Just committing changes to the live version

Should be seamless

#FamousLastWords #WeEat

[nocturne solstice]

none, its already back online

[dense sun]

My jagex launcher is just a white box, this is what I get for opting into beta features 😂

[dense sun]

Fixed by killing the process and restarting

[cunning root]

Yoooo this new update is siiiiick

Whoever redone the world map to include the depth is a G

[frozen lion]

New emote inc. Xd

[cunning root]

New landmarks and such are cool

[frozen lion]

Crab dance

[opaque crown]

map looks amazing! Great work.

the ledger table icon on map at priff is not showing the label correctly when hovering over

[forest sentinel]

The bwan fishing spot moves now

[winged mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/sid-the-sloth-ice-age-they-do-this-every-year-gif-16076645

every update

[floral blaze]

where did the autocast option go lol

[vital python]

The same place bank tabs with gear setups went... In the bin

[opaque crown]

inventory setups same issues - runelite problem tho

[kind mauve]

Hello, is runelite crashing for any1 else after the update? It doesn't even start. Fails with error "OldSchool RuneScape has crashed with the message: error_game_js5connect_full"

[honest marsh]

bank tags not working 🙁

[pearl wing]

Yep same here

[ember token]

runelite's just been updated so try restarting your client

[ancient ember]

I've raised this with the team 👀 thanks for raising!

[honest marsh]

mod yume raise not adding sailing

[ember token]

raise your copium levels

[sweet remnant]

members bank capacity to 900?

or was this like this already?

[dense oriole]

yeah, its for sailing

[sweet remnant]

oh nice

[topaz scroll]

This broke how fire works in tempoross

It can land in the water and go over the boss

[dense oriole]

new update: fire now beats water!

[honest marsh]

update broke everything, good job jagex

multi million dollar company cant run out a smooth update to save themselves

[ancient ember]

This seems to be a RuneLite issue as well. RL's working on updates to make it handle the game update, so keep an eye out 🙏

[daring solar]

New update bank tabs work now. Just reboot Runelite.

[honest marsh]

they still broken now just not as bad

[delicate epoch]

Zoom out further is also broken in Runelite

[pearl wing]

Did you try this yourself and did it work for you? Because I even deinstalled RuneLite in it's entirety and still get the crash with the abovementioned message

[ember token]

I have not been crashing

[kind mauve]

It's not crashing anymore for me

[forest sentinel]

Please fix the karambwan fishing spot 🙁

[delicate epoch]

No one wants to play without Runelite, so now they do updates to put runelite in a bad light? 😮

[honest marsh]

u are genuinely one of the most annoying people on this server, please shut up

[ember token]

i dont even know who you are

[honest marsh]

whathappened?

[pearl wing]

How did you fix it? Just close client and fire it up again from the Jagex launcher?

[dense oriole]

It's a large client update, it takes time for these things to come out. Runelite's a third-party developed client.

[ember token]

every server restart, the karambwan fishing spots move for a bit before getting stuck

[kind mauve]

Yessir, that worked fine for me

[vivid ruin]

My fairy ring has a never ending loop, and i cant scroll to find what i need 😭

[winged mantle]

watch out apparently master clues have sailing steps already

[honest marsh]

jagex breaking everything with this update

youd think they would test beforehand

[winged mantle]

why add more steps to current clues?

was literally going to make this suggestion "please don't give horrible new clue scroll steps without adding shortcuts first (proudspire summit elite step)"

[compact flicker]

Rather all the problems today than during sailing launch

Very much the goal here

[winged mantle]

noted clues undoable for a week 🫡

[dense oriole]

100%, the next 2 weeks will be for that

[candid tartan]

Yeah but the overseer has been mildly inconvenienced for at least 47 seconds so lets all just shout at jagex instead

[compact flicker]

A normal Wednesday

[honest marsh]

whats your problem?

[ember token]

oh there we go, there's a crash

[compact flicker]

Cool runelite updooted too

[compact flicker]

Onoes

[honest marsh]

looks like you can finnaly take a shower

[woven venture]

My screen is just black

[fickle parrot]

my RuneLite just shows a black screen, nothing more

[woven venture]

or it crashes

[compact flicker]

@honest marsh we get it, you're upset

[dense oriole]

I guess.. Data was not compatible

😎

[honest marsh]

Im not, just voicing my concerns Maia

Dm me if u have a problem

[vernal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/piano-bruce-almighty-keyboard-keyboard-warrior-fast-typing-gif-3416345

[winged geyser]

Hey sorry im new here where can i report some graphical glitches caused by the new renderer?

[pearl wing]

Voicing your concerns and relentlessly complaining are not the same

[fickle parrot]

it make me upset

[nocturne solstice]

Best place would be in-game by right clicking the red report button and selecting "Report game bug".

[vernal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-riot-pitchfork-torch-bikini-gif-5846528199736014419

[vivid ruin]

This kind of stuff is out of their hands tbh. Theres only so much they can do. We are a part of the test team

[candid tartan]

Also check if it's already known in #zbuffer-known-issues

[winged geyser]

I did check this, and no its not a part of it

[pale venture]

is there a place to report in-game bugs?

[graceful frost]

There is massive fps drops in raids since render update is that known issue?

[compact flicker]

Right click the red timer

[pale venture]

perfect thank you @compact flicker

[compact flicker]

[stuck kelp]

Found a bug

Where can I send screen shots

[ember token]

just heard someone ingame say there's a falo step that needs a dragon keel

[compact flicker]

A few things coming up, I wonder how things will end up

[vivid ruin]

Clue scrolls getting impossible steps is funny to me

Are we going to be able to add granite dust to drag cballs?

[honest marsh]

if thats your irl photo i feel bad for you man...

[opal pulsar]

jagex please

the clue steps

[honest marsh]

drop the clue lol

problem solved

[opal pulsar]

rip me for opening my clues before the update I guess

my masters :(

[honest marsh]

people complaining about things they can easiliy solve

crazyness

[ember token]

no, but granite cannonballs will work with sailing, they fit between mithril and addy I believe

[honest marsh]

youd have to be stupid to use granite cannonballs on anything over than pvm anyway

[vivid ruin]

Do wat m8

[iron wing]

Why would you drop the clue without knowing whether it's unintended and being fixed or not

Fair point though you can just drop it but it would be good to know if this was intended.

[honest marsh]

wallahi its so laggy

My character just moves 6 tiles in 1 tick

[honest marsh]

uhh becuase maybe it solves the problem?

think before you speak

[iron wing]

"wallahi" I'm out

[warped oasis]

Tempoross fires travel through water breaking the content :((

[wild badger]

Sooo... no more skill progress bars then?

[stone cedar]

Swan song is broken, originally you need to patch 5 walls and now only 2 are repairable. I think it's due to the Sailing Port addition to Piscatoris

quest can't be completed 🙂

[lucid torrent]

thanks for screwing the game with sailing

👍

[hidden cave]

our first step into rs3 xD

[compact flicker]

I'm still runecrafting bloods fine

[plush plover]

any word on tears of guthix and lamps being useable on sailing on the 19th after the update? Usually theres a cooldown period of lamping skills but I didnt know if that was the case with sailing or not, again after release ( i did ask in the sailing discord but had no response)

[mystic trail]

there is already an ingame message about it "messing with the balance" and you can't use it on sailing right now - i'd assume this message is in place for the release of sailing too. So short answer: no you won't (opinion)

[iron wing]

Some agility shortcuts are teleporting people around the map

[mystic trail]

latest blog lists 91 as the highest fishing requirement for marlin, however the fishing skill tab states it as only 86 - Any confirmation of which it is?

[plush plover]

oo ty ive not seen the message! i'll keep digging around, I figured no would be the answer but it'd be nice to have clarity either way just so I know when to use up my frog tokens 😂

[winged mantle]

i've reported a massive bug in game - can i raise this with any jmod as it's pretty bad

[lucid torrent]

let it crash its rs3 all over again anyway

[frail bough]

Report it in game

[mystic trail]

report using the in game report system

[winged mantle]

already have

[mystic trail]

Then your work is done

[dusky nest]

Is it KQ?

[grim lily]

Found a bug since the update, you can longrange way longer than you should be able to with the eye of ayak, its about 5/6 tiles further than should be possible

you can camp melee hand at olm and use the eye of ayak on it on defensive

[mystic trail]

report in game, they won't check discord for this type of thing

[barren hollow]

What bug, and where tbow spawn this time?

[gritty jay]

next to oziach in edgeville right underneath him, but talk to him first to make it appear

[barren hollow]

Thx

[ancient ember]

I'm keeping an eye on here for the bug reports occuring after the update, you can raise them here 🙂

Also we're updating the newspost with known issues https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/sailing-technical-pre-release?oldschool=1

[buoyant lily]

Delve animations have changed

[ancient ember]

Could you provide more detail please? 👀

[winged mantle]

Would rather not say here as it could be used by nefarious people

[ancient ember]

I'll DM you 🙂

[winged mantle]

Ty

[buoyant lily]

The fights the same but the animations were whack, the rocks had like fireworks as they landed

[frail bough]

Are you using runelite and does it still happen if you choose and reopen

[jolly sentinel]

i went pking and saw that whenever i use my dragon crossbow it uses spec instead of shooting normally

now its time to logout till fix

[civic patrol]

@ancient ember tempoross has a bug where the fire spreads through the water, cant find a report bug button on mobile so typing here

[ancient ember]

What Aluminoti said. If you're on RL, make sure to reopen and update it. And does it happen without RL as well?

[oblique spoke]

Penguin agility course starting line teleports to port sarim 🙁

[ancient ember]

Thank you, we're aware of that and working on a fix 🔥 https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/sailing-technical-pre-release?oldschool=1

[neat crypt]

Clues seem to be dropping with Sailing steps, bricking them

[ancient ember]

this is on our radar as well

[ancient ember]

on our radar as well, thanks for letting me know 🙏

[stone cedar]

Swan song is broken, originally you need to patch 5 walls and now only 2 are repairable. I think it's due to the Sailing Port addition to Piscatoris

[royal zealot]

The grand exchange has been broken on world 472 for a few days, how long until it might be fixed?

[ancient ember]

I'm raising this with the team, may be a z-buffer issue rather than this game update

[topaz scroll]

temp fire seems like its fixed

[fringe rivet]

the Gryphon icon in the slayer tab is funny

[vague viper]

Hai, can I ask is this on official client/mobile or are you seeing it on RuneLite too? Can you describe the issue in more detail? And it's only happening on w472??

[royal zealot]

It is only happening on world 472 and it's all of it, says the system is unavailable when trying to make buy/sell offers and says you can't abort previous offers.

[median jolt]

New Narnia transport method? https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1op0pwr/agility_shortcut_sailing_bug/ lmao

[fringe rivet]

Will sailing pave the way for Witch's House 2, where you sail a giant rubber ducky?

[idle rapids]

Technically it’s an old emote

It’s been in the game for years just hidden

[vague viper]

Thanks so much for raising this!

[idle rapids]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1hf8nzn/osrs_fun_fact_15_theres_a_partiallyimplemented/

[mystic trail]

could you confirm if the 86 fishing req in the fishing skill tab is a mistake or not? the blogs mentioned 91 as the requirement for marlin but is listed as only 86

[fringe rivet]

I thought Max Capes were supposed to be disabled?

[fleet knoll]

Anyone having trouble completing swan song quest after update i can't complete it

[mystic trail]

known issue

[floral blaze]

are bank tags fixed yet

[ancient ember]

That is good to know, thank you for this, I'm raising this with the Sailing team 🙏

[meager flame]

I think they meant that for the day of release

But before the skill actually goes live

[fringe rivet]

Huh, thought it was supposed to be now to help ensure that they would be disabled.

[meager flame]

Yeah I thought something similar when I read the blog and had to like think about it for a second because you could read it that way

But it would be pretty weird to disable it weeks early

So I just assumed they meant the day the update goes out also something else in that sentence or the following ones only makes sense if you read it that way

[mystic trail]

That's to do with Runelite, osrs has nothing to do with it

[clever vine]

it says in the update notes today that capes won't get disabled until release day

[feral sentinel]

JUst did a solo olm with a eye of ayak staff with the longrange only method and and it wasnt working. did they buff the range on the ayak staff?

[ember token]

it's bugged and has 10 tile range atm on longrange

[floral blaze]

ok

[nimble chasm]

loving this for phosani sleepwalkers

[dreamy bear]

i just re logged, tags are working again

[ancient ember]

This is now being investigated 🙏

[hidden cave]

anyone elses skill tab messed up? like total level is kind of blocking the bottom skills?

[opal pulsar]

Do you have some kind of plugin that changes it?

they rearranged it to make room for the sailing skill, you might have to turn that off while you wait for it to update.

[old chasm]

Not sure if this is the place to report it but there's a small spelling mistake in Bosun Zarah's text if you speak to her. Should say "twelfth".

Just in case it's not temporary text pre-launch

[ancient ember]

Noted this down ty!

[oblique spoke]

Another bug is ... that idk if intentionally but avoiding first obstacle in penguin agility course is easier, due to no character speed modifier (which would normally slow you), and the penguin is not standing half in the water, it is just running through the water on its surface.

[undone pagoda]

I have what I believe to be an easy bug to fix, but a very annoying one. Where can I properly report this to hopefully get a patch asap?

[frail bough]

Type it here and in report it game

[undone pagoda]

While in the CoX shared storage, you cant move things around in your inventory like you can in the private storage, or most (if not all) interfaces in the game. This is extremely annoying when trying to prepare. Instead items you try to drag around in your inventory instead go back into the shared storage.

[bronze kernel]

I do wonder if you can sail and snipe people heading towards the Larran Chest

[dapper pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/note-write-gif-18812738

Fking rat

[true talon]

Can we increase the range on eye by 1 XD

[quiet geyser]

I've already got the 100 extra bankspaces on my ironman, but can't see that change in the technical pre-release. is this a bug?

[quasi fulcrum]

Uhhh, where can I report a bug that my Hops patches no longer have my seeds planted, and I have to rake them. I raked them years ago, and have had auto-weed on forever 😐

[dawn lake]

Farming patches that appeared unweedable should now be fixed. If you were logged in before the fix, interact with the patch - it’ll show weeds, but they can now be raked normally. Hotfixed.

It was probably related to this bug

[quasi fulcrum]

RIP my 12 jute seeds 🙁

[half hearth]

My hop patches was reset also. Had fully grown yanillian before update. Fml

[quasi fulcrum]

Same, my jutes were planted last night. Figured I'd go for some drift nets just incase they're used in sailing

[modern crypt]

Adding on to this, even prior to this Sailing pre-tech update, the Skill Guide and level-up messages for numerous skills are either blatantly wrong or ambiguous. Off the top of my head such skills include (but aren't limited to) Runecraft, Farming, and Construction.

[opal urchin]

this one is also now known as an issue and on the list to fix (https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/sailing-technical-pre-release?oldschool=true)

[river coral]

forestry events not spawning?

[dawn lake]

Looks like the Eye of Ayak's long range has been fixed.

[true talon]

If you arent gonna be spending a ton on sailing or plan to go to 99 quickly. now is a good time to pick up end game gear, this stuff is dirt cheap lol

Most end game items have crashed by 50%

[meager flame]

i honestly think everyone should do that lmao

i dont even think sailing is going to cost that much gp

like

some of the raw materials may cost a decent amount in the first like

handful of days

but for most people even like getting sailing to 99 in 2 to 3 weeks

its mostly just going to be about actually sailing and not trying to figure out who can even chop a certain log

also

lmao

100 kc to tempoross just got added to the sailing prep

[hasty shard]

i swear if im not in like the 80kc range for tempoross

[meager flame]

thank god i stopped at 101

[still sundial]

I have like 3 kc its so over

[meager flame]

lmao it probably doesn't even matter its just for the level 90 crewmate

[ember token]

80 tempoross kc here so shouldnt take long at mass worlds

[hasty shard]

level 90 is high!!1

[fringe rivet]

I imagine since barricuda training will be the best exp, that's where the main cost will come from
repairs

[meager flame]

theres one at 95

[fringe rivet]

otherwise less intensive exp won't be so costly

[hasty shard]

70kc

[meager flame]

im just kind of guessing a little bit but

how they talked about it recently

you're probably intended to upgrade your ship when you can and swap training methods as you unlock them to some degree

and likely go do the sea charting stuff asap too

as you can

[idle summit]

was tempoross always able to spawn 3 or 4 fires per side or was it always 4

and now bugged due to hotfix

[tacit wharf]

thats what husky alluded to, as you train sailing, u want to go do new content instead of training at older

[meager flame]

they tried to make it mysterious when they talked about xp/hr

but yeah basically i'd assume whatever you unlock has a solid chance of being better

the part that idk about is if thats assuming tick manip or not

[tough nacelle]

Where was this posted

[small anvil]

Temp has been 4 fires as long as I've played it

1 on boat 3 on land

[idle summit]

yea just got a 3 spawn 1 boat 2 land

[idle summit]

they hotfixed fires spawning on water so maybe thats why it happened

[small anvil]

How odd

[tough nacelle]

Oh like in the skill guide

Very weird

[meager flame]

honestly just running around looking at this stuff

its pretty weird lol

like you'll definitely notice if you go to miscellania rn

[idle rapids]

do you guys think these tabs will be worth a lot on sailing launch

[meager flame]

i mean i would say no but

osrs players can be pretty dumb a rune pouch destroys the need for those tabs unless we come up with a pretty specific activity which we probably will eventually

but for general use people probably shouldn't be using those

[candid tartan]

Upgrading will be a pretty expensive part of the process, especially at first. To get a dragon keel on a sloop you need 16 large dragon keel parts, which all in all is 400 dragon sheets. Assuming the drop rate of the sheets won't be common, that will be an expensive upgrade even weeks after launch

[hard axle]

$10 says someone asks for a poh port

within a month of sailing release

[meager flame]

yeah but you have to get to 97 sailing to care about a dragon keel in the first place

[restive siren]

people already have

[meager flame]

i mean idk why they even like

[hard axle]

[meager flame]

make people ask

if they make a teleport in your spellbook its a foregone conclusion its going in your poh

[hoary verge]

They need to change some of these names

[meager flame]

oh yeah like when i right click a mermaid and im like

"oh i thought those were placeholder names"

lmao

not a big deal but like

idk if this is what we really need lol

[hoary verge]

Most of the ocean names are bad

[weary copper]

i like the icon for the new pet

can it be an emote

[meager flame]

although i do wonder if like

because i haven't read the other names or the lore or anything if you talk to those npcs

if its maybe a meme name like how trolls get their names

[weary copper]

also fossil island load times are horrendous

[normal temple]

According to the wiki page for one of them it may be a reference to an IRL person who hosts a British quiz show: https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Victoria_Kebbit-Monkfish

[upbeat comet]

We expecting rune nails as some form of loot drop from sailing?

[ember token]

i'd expect all nails to be loot from salvaging

[upbeat comet]

Hope so, not near the smith level 😄

[ember token]

rune nails would then be from higher tier salvage

[opaque escarp]

Game update broke verzik floor, the black part of verzik's carpet is transparent now

(not my screenshot)

The tiles also have no SceneTilePaint for some reason in runelite api

[rough coral]

Out of curiosity, saw people talking about how various GPU plugins are broken in different ways… what if I just have all of them off? As in, is it more or less broken than others 😅

[frail nebula]

More broken than before

Runelite rolled back its z-buffered rendering GPU plugin

so it'll look as it did before

No GPU plugin will still give you z-buffered rendering

[cobalt star]

Do we know if Tears of Guthix will affect sailing immediately on launch?

[oblique mesa]

it wont

[rough coral]

Sailing XP cannot be earned or granted by any means. So no sneaking in any XP lamps or Tears of Guthix!

[fickle oasis]

can't exit the boat properly taking boat to mos le harmless from port phasmatys. The port plank is off to the right now.

[cobalt star]

wait isnt this just for the next 2 weeks? I mean once the skill is out

[tacit wharf]

no, they have said from the beginning you wont be able to use lamps/tog for the first few weeks/month after sailing is released

no actual timeframe on being able to

[meager flame]

i mean i'd expect that to last for like

idk a few weeks to a month they might be insane and do a full 6 months i think rs3 might do that

but realistically our exp race is going to be over fairly quickly so it probably wont last too long

[rough coral]

can confirm, how did that even happen

[fickle oasis]

i guess left/right depending on camera angle, but not sure how that happened

[rough coral]

also the tile preview makes no sense when you hover over the rest of the plank and pier

[neat hazel]

For what It's worth that gangplank is just there as a temporary measure (hotfix)

Was added via script which we can hotfix, can't change the actual gangplank mapping unless we reboot the game 🙂

[true talon]

no way you didnt censor hsvenn

[wild flax]

What about Bounty Hunter? It was in 318 earlyer not is back to 319?

[wild flax]

Do we get 2 weeks in uk world then?

[round lintel]

Didnt notice but we got the extra bankspace now

[opaque escarp]

"not my screenshot"

[bronze kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/waterin-fire-korone-vtuber-animated-why-gif-558025371727911373

[wise sleet]

The newspost said that the sailing clue scrolls were fixed but i have a sherlock step to mine nickel. Do i have to wait until sailing or is there a way to reset it?

[true talon]

Yea drop it an get another 1 XD

[sonic trench]

Is it just me, or is the new "Total Level" text placed too low/not vertically centered.

[wise sleet]

Nah, ima give that to watson. Can’t waste an elite like that :’(

[odd vigil]

Anyone else think the boat teleport spell names are jank? Instead of "Teleport me to boat" and "Teleport boat to me", it could be something like "Boat Teleport" and "Summon Boat". Much less clunky, and we don't have two spells made up of the same 4 words but in a slightly different order.

Other options are "Call Boat" or "Recall Boat" (that one's too ambiguous).

[weary copper]

it is indeed lower and could be placed 1 pixel higher to 'center' it

[weary copper]

Boat teleport would be unclear if it's to the boat or reverse

[odd vigil]

I don't think so. Every other teleport except "Teleport to House" is "<Place> Teleport". But it probably would be better to call it "Teleport to Boat" to keep parity with the house tp.

[ember grove]

"teleport to boat" and "recall boat" seem very easy and very obvious

[thick beacon]

holy shit is all the water updated like this its super cool?

[odd vigil]

I think "Recall Boat" could have confusing interpretations — does it mean that it brings the boat to the nearest port to you or does it bring it to the last port you docked it at? — which is why I prefer "Summon Boat" or "Call Boat" more.

[weary copper]

You can see some teasers in the release videos where certain water biomes have icing on top

[odd vigil]

But yeah, I agree "Teleport to Boat" is probably better, given "Teleport to House" already being established.

[thick beacon]

ye i didint know what was gona happen with the water beta stuff didint have any changes to water as far as i saw

i knew they mightve cooked but i figured they might also have just kept charm of the old water graphics

[weary copper]

here's a global map where you can see the clear biome distinctions
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/images/Sailing_beta_world_map.png?6c5df

[thick beacon]

blown away

[weary copper]

fossil island is top right as part of the Untamed Ocean

[minor whale]

Could probably keep "Teleport Boat to Me" and change the other to "Teleport to Boat"
But it's not a big deal
The way they chose is the least ambiguous they could do, which is fine I guess

[odd vigil]

It's maybe the least ambiguous, but it's clunky as heck imo. Also very easy to misread, which does add to ambiguity.

[sharp cave]

wow this is amazing! >30fps with a 3080 and a 7800x3d!

what genius at jegex thought putting 100,000 animated objects all over the place was a good idea?

[minor whale]

I mean
You're using 117 which is notoriously unoptomized

That's not exactly on Jagex lol

[sharp cave]

hello

blind?

[dusk flax]

uhm, where would i go if i think i found something that was broke by the update

[minor whale]

Sorry, saw the star in the thumbnail and assumed that was the check box for on/off

Check it on official client and see how the fps is

[minor whale]

Can make a bug report in game and post about it in here to see if others experienced it

[weary copper]

either check #zbuffer-known-issues #mobile-known-issues or right click the report button in-game to report it

[zinc dove]

Then don't complain about a 3rd party client not working if you're not willing to test it on the official

[minor whale]

Yeah like regardless of if them adding a shitload of animated pixels to the ocean is a good idea or not, using Runelite which is shit performance so much so that people STILL have issues on fossil island and Prif is not exactly a Jagex issue when they've fixed the issue on their end on official client

Also lol

The rendering is bad on Runelite because their gpu plugins are borked natively

[dusk flax]

its kinda funny, the update that added some of the stuff for sailing broke the swan song quest from the looks of it

[minor whale]

Like, I love Runelite, but when I encounter horrible performance, crashes, or bugs, I assume it's Runelite 9/10 times and it is

[warm storm]

well yeah it's a third-party tool scrambling to get everything together post-update

RL has their own discord to report problems though, best to go there instead of here :)

[dusk flax]

ah, didnt know that, ill check there out too

wait you said rl, ignore me

[strange cipher]

question
why are the sharks clipping so bad haha

it's like they can only render on top of one tile at a time so they look mostly cut off

[minor whale]

I'm not attacking Runelite, just defending Jagex lmao
I don't see a Runelite-specific issue and go "Damn you Jagex, why did you break my 3rd party client!!!"

[sonic trench]

Mogres can now swim instead of hiding in a fishing spot - excellent

[chrome lantern]

Pretty gross tbh

Also kinda weird to punish people for not having done mass even going for barrel or other stuff, would make more sense as permits, or not at all kc req more than like 1

Or something like requiring you to have Spirit Angler, even

[carmine junco]

It's not a punishment, lol.

They chose to set a requirement to hire this crew person, who is one of the tempoross people. If you want them, you must fulfill that requirement.

[chrome lantern]

Choose better

[carmine junco]

Why?

Because you don't want to do it?

[chrome lantern]

Punishment might be the wrong term but it seems like a bad choice of metric for having engaged with Tempoross

[carmine junco]

Idk. I'd be fine if they decided the requirement was full spirit angler instead, but 100 kc is w/e

[chrome lantern]

I mean you can go on rate for a fish barrel in like 30 solos is all I really mean

Most people just do tempoross for barrel and leave

But if they did it in mass they would have this kc threshold

[minor whale]

I dunno, 100 Temp games is really not that much in the grand scheme of getting a really good crewmember

[meager flame]

it kinda depends on when you played your account tbf

like

my iron was relatively newer when i did temp because i'd been playing hcs and shit like that

so i actually had the kc and a reason to really go do tempoross

if you were further along when that update came out if you got a fish barrel relatively early or just did mostly solos to get it

its kind of a lot of games of something theres no way you sat there and did

its simple enough though to fix even if its a bit

idk

time wastey i guess

[elder loom]

just got the "mine some nickel" clue step, thought this was hotfixed earlier?

[small anvil]

its a bit of "why kc instead of permits"

[nocturne solstice]

well 100 permits is extremely easy

its like 10 games

[winged mantle]

Jmods please rethink adding sailing steps to clues.

For those of us that don't want to do sailing outright or right away, this forces people that currently do clues to have to engage with sailing.

I've already heard "just don't engage with sailing" and in the same think space "just drop the clue". How are you meant to not engage with sailing but do clues that were possible prior to the release?

I think sailing should offer it's own unique clues with their own reward space without further bloating the clue scrolls and providing nothing of value.

[chrome lantern]

I don't think anyone ever said 100 permits, just using permits as a benchmark rather than games

[nocturne solstice]

Geekaleek just said permits

[chrome lantern]

He never said 100 permits

Like I said

[chrome lantern]

^

[nocturne solstice]

So what did people say?

Just permits without a number?

[small anvil]

the complaint from etube is that people are punished for doing solos (which are more efficient)

rather than doing the mass world

[chrome lantern]

My recommendation was spirit angler as one option

[small anvil]

you could normalize it by setting a permit threshold instead

[chrome lantern]

But you could make it like whatever the expected mass permits is per game times 100 games

[small anvil]

at least thats how i read it

[chrome lantern]

Yeah

[small anvil]

so like 400 permits or smth

350? idk

[winged mantle]

4-6 permits per mass game

[chrome lantern]

Sure so like 400 permits

[small anvil]

that sounds high but i never did solos

[chrome lantern]

Or 300 idk

[small anvil]

err

[chrome lantern]

I never did mass which is why I expressed this concern

[small anvil]

i never did mass*

[chrome lantern]

I just did like 14 permit solos

[small anvil]

i did solos

[winged mantle]

Mass games are like 4:30 for 4-6 permits

[nocturne solstice]

Uhh i think this is just revealing your bias here

[small anvil]

Being efficient for permits is bias?

14 permit solos are ~11 min games

vs 5:30? min games in mass

[chrome lantern]

It's revealing my frustration that I've spent tens of hours at the minigame, multiple times longer than people with 100 kc, and I'm not eligible for the crewmember without going and doing tens more kc

[nocturne solstice]

Nah just going from 100 games is too much lets do permits, okay 400-600 is fine, okay no maybe 300 is better.

Its just going lower and lower might as well not have corrected me with 100 permits

[hard axle]

100 games

[small anvil]

the claim wasn't about the exact threshold dude

[hard axle]

mfers wanted this skill

they will grind the whatever requirements

[small anvil]

its just that permits are normalized to how much you played

[hard axle]

[chrome lantern]

It's not trying to lower it lmao I just don't know how many permits a mass gives

[small anvil]

while kc isnt

[chrome lantern]

I didn't

[small anvil]

whatever threshold in permits

[nocturne solstice]

4-6 on average, its a bit of a lucky dip cause its a little rng there

[small anvil]

is preferrable to kc

[chrome lantern]

So then 400 idk, the 100 kc number is extremely arbitrary to begin with lmao

[hard axle]

ik ik

[small anvil]

i have 3k permits so far

[nocturne solstice]

Well yeah every limit is pretty arbitrary

[chrome lantern]

Point was just to shift it away from raw kc because it's not representative of actual time spent at the minigame

Or actual effort put in

And use metrics we already have in the game like permit count or spirit angler outfit (which imo makes logically/lore-wise the most sense)

[small anvil]

spirit angler is kinda sad cuz what if you decided to use all your flakes

[chrome lantern]

KC is kinda sad cuz what if you decided to do solos

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think either of that really matters anymore than KC?
I think KC just makes sense. Permits are in themselves, a reward. They're how many pulls you got at the pool so why would that count for anything? Kc is pretty standardized no?

[small anvil]

i agree on that point and think lifetime permits is a perfect reasonable metric

[hard axle]

12k permits 💀

[chrome lantern]

Permits are a metric of how much you've contributed to the Spirit Anglers combatting the storm Tempor

[nocturne solstice]

Its fine if people do solos, they can go do groups if they want to grind some more quickly or something.

[chrome lantern]

It makes more sense logically than KC from a world perspective as well

[small anvil]

genuinely hard to tell if you're actually arguing in good faith and missing the point

[nocturne solstice]

I dont really think so, its like "great job helping us out! but because we rewarded you so much we wanted to reward you again!" rather than "Wow you beat him X many times! great job I'll join your crew!"

[chrome lantern]

?

[nocturne solstice]

Like one is I'll join because we paid you so much, the other is I'll join because you helped us so much.

Permits is their "payment" for us helping

[chrome lantern]

I feel like you're just trying to misconstrue it as much as possible as this point

And this isn't the first time I've felt that way about you arguing things either

[nocturne solstice]

Not at all, you're just bringing up weird points about it making sense lore wise and it doesnt make sense to me.

If you could clarify that would be good though

[chrome lantern]

-Permits are a measure of how much you've assisted the Spirit Anglers
-The more you've helped the Spirit Anglers, the more sense it would make for one of them to be willing to join you

"Wow you were on 100 boats where the rest of the people killed Tempoross and you did almost nothing"

Doesn't really make sense

Compared to the literal metric we have

Of how much you've assisted the Spirit Anglers

[nocturne solstice]

That feels more misconstrued.
You had to run around a lot to beat him back once vs you beat him back 5 times is more accurate lore wise.

[chrome lantern]

^

[nocturne solstice]

Their goal has been to hold back tempoross and you only doing it once vs lets say 3 times means you helped out less no?

[chrome lantern]

Not really

[nocturne solstice]

I dont know how much clearer I can be when I said clearly "It doesnt make sense to me" and that I wanted clarification.

[chrome lantern]

If you were helping out less then you wouldn't get more permits lmao

[nocturne solstice]

Why not? This is the in world perspective you're talking about btw.

I know gameplay wise its like oh, the player had to work really hard for those subdues. Hence more permits.

[chrome lantern]

If you fight it alone and take 3x as long to fight it back that's better than your contribution to 100 people fighting it back in a third the time

You did almost nothing in the mass example

[nocturne solstice]

But lore wise you only subdued him once compared to the other guy that did it numerous times. That guy with the higher KC would be more important to the spirit anglers than you.

[chrome lantern]

If that were the case he would have more reward permits

[winged mantle]

They could always do either x permits or x kc

If you hit either of those you have the crew member

[chrome lantern]

Or like "have 100 kc or wear spirit angler"

[nocturne solstice]

It just feels like overcomplicating something for no real reason. Even moreso when etube is fine with it just being 100kc x average permits for the permit limit.

This all feels so arbitrary

[chrome lantern]

How is it overcomplicating when we already have a metric for it

[nocturne solstice]

Whats the metric for it?

[winged mantle]

I would be ok for them to just use the combat achievement threshold

[chrome lantern]

Permits

[nocturne solstice]

Unless you mean precedent?

[chrome lantern]

And it aids in balancing how much time/effort people put into the minigame to unlock the crewmember

[nocturne solstice]

So because permits exist, permits must be used to unlock content? Not the rewards that permits give?

[hard axle]

Hear me out: 5000 permits for the best crewmate because skilling enthusiasts wanted a new skill and they should be grinding for the best crewmates

[chrome lantern]

It legitimately feels like you've just looked at the 100 kc metric and said, "Jagex cannot possibly be incorrect" and decided to argue anything possible you can do to defend that position

[nocturne solstice]

its a lvl 90 crewmember so I wouldnt mind a 5k grind

they better be good though

[chrome lantern]

Even when we literally already have a better metric that already exists to measure how much you've done for the Spirit Anglers

[winged mantle]

Welcome to slayer points v2

[nocturne solstice]

No, my opinion is just it's fine to critique and complain but let's think about it a bit more and see how your idea actually pans out.

Rather than, I don't like this, change it.

You didnt even know the average permits per game, so what are we talking about here man.

[analog crow]

what's the deal? 100 permits for a crewmember?

[chrome lantern]

???

[hard axle]

2 billion permits per crewmember

[chrome lantern]

Why does me knowing how many permits a mass is if I know it's significantly less

[analog crow]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-balanced-gif-3226445978144001245

[chrome lantern]

The whole point was that I didn't waste my time doing mass in the past and I don't think that is the best metric they could use

[nocturne solstice]

Because what I'm hearing is this
"KC is bad let's use permits"
"How many permits should we use?"
"I don't know"

[minor whale]

I think a set amount of games is entirely fine when other crew members require specific quests/skills/whatever
100 kc is not a ton, changing it to permits is...fine? But like entirely not necessary

[chrome lantern]

The literal first thing I said was 100x the expected rewards from a mass

It doesn't matter if I know how many that is or not

[minor whale]

I don't really think permits makes any more sense than kc, except for people wanting to be done faster with it lol

[nocturne solstice]

And what is 100x expected for mass?
"I don't know"

We can just talk and discuss this man

[chrome lantern]

It doesn't even have to be faster though, and it wouldn't even be faster

[nocturne solstice]

Ellie came in with the number

[chrome lantern]

??? So if I don't immediately know how many permits a mass is then my argument is invalid?

[nocturne solstice]

Not at all, I'm just discussing things here not everything is an attack on you jeez

[minor whale]

Irrespective of skill or effort, kc is just a static amount that is clearly what Jagex is going for

[chrome lantern]

I don't know how much loot you expect to get in a 20 man Hueycoatl mass or 60-man Nex mass either, because I don't waste my time

[analog crow]

Once I'm 90 sailing I'm picking up Virginia 100%
Gotta have her on the team!

[chrome lantern]

It would be like using a Nex kc metric when mass Nex is the single worst way possible to do Nex

[nocturne solstice]

Well you havent made any suggestions on Huey or Nex so your knowledge there doesnt matter.

[chrome lantern]

Brother you cannot possibly be serious

[nocturne solstice]

But if you're asking for rewards to be changed I kinda expect you to know a bit about tempororss

[chrome lantern]

Have you heard of an analogy

Have you heard of a comparison

Have you heard of using a qualitative metric instead of knowing the exact number

[analog crow]

Why is 100kc such a big deal for a lvl 90 crewmember

[chrome lantern]

Because "100x expected mass permits per game"

[analog crow]

?

[chrome lantern]

Is very clear and straightforward

[hard axle]

I do agree with Etube that KC is not necessarily a good measure because solo 100 kc is vastly different than mass 100 kc

[nocturne solstice]

You're using an exaggerated example to defend your lack of experience with tempoross. I'm telling you that isn't a good defence since you're making a suggestion about tempororss. We're just discussing what the requirements should be for the crewmember and why.

[chrome lantern]

I'm not trying to make it a big deal, I'm just presenting a better metric since mass isn't the way most people do the content, and Pingu is telling me that my argument is invalid

[hard axle]

Permits are a better system because if you are willing to do Firefighting Method (80 permits/hr), it's only an hour+.

[nocturne solstice]

When have I said your argument is invalid?

[chrome lantern]

Why do you assume I have a lack of experience with Tempoross

[minor whale]

You did solo temp and got rewarded for doing so, you have some kc and now you're closer than 0 for getting the 100 needed
Permits is like requiring x number of Vorkath loot to get head instead of 50 kc
It's just not something Jagex has ever really done and I really don't think it's worth all this arguing over such a small thing lol

[analog crow]

Mass isn't the way most people do temp? Do you have numbers for that?

[chrome lantern]

You've said it like 5 different ways

[nocturne solstice]

If anything I just think changing to permits is kinda arbitrary. The only accusation I made was that I suspect you just think the grind is too much for you and want the requirement lowered.

[chrome lantern]

From my personal experience, of 20 people I know that have done tempoross, 1 person does it in mass, 1 person does it for xp, and 18 others do it maximizing permits in solo

[hard axle]

Permits are better measure though in terms of effort

[nocturne solstice]

Which is what my previous comment was about, the going from kc to permits, to 400 permits, to 300 permits bit.

[analog crow]

That's not really ground for the kind of general statement you made

[chrome lantern]

I don't think the grind is too much at all, I think that if the intent is to measure a "Tempoross grind" then they picked a poor way to do it

[analog crow]

20 people is a very low sample size

[chrome lantern]

It's a ratio

[nocturne solstice]

I've done masses, tempororss for xp and tempoross for permits. Masses are about 4-6 permits and permit runs you can get 10 per run pretty easily, takes around 8m?

[chrome lantern]

It's not literally 20 people

[analog crow]

It's meaningless

[chrome lantern]

I can't even

[nocturne solstice]

This way of discussing just feels weird

[chrome lantern]

Someone who's done 50 solos has done way more than someone who's done 100 mass Tempoross. The whole point of shifting to permits is to reflect this, and also makes sense because permits measure how much you've contributed to the Spirit Anglers/how much favor/rewards they've given you for your efforts.

You don't have to list it as "Get 400 permits" but even that wouldn't be any worse than "Get 100 kc." It can be some metric that you've "Gained the favor" of the Spirit Anglers, and doesn't need to be tied to some arbitrary KC amount

[minor whale]

Even solo tempoross isn't like this massive experience-driven way of doing it
You sit there for 10 minutes putting out fires
It's not really indicative of any more "being good at Temp" than masses are, and you get faster permits for it

[nocturne solstice]

I just dont see it as a big deal cause if you need more kc why cant you just grind out a few more in masses? It's easy.

[analog crow]

Solo is way more afk than mass yes

[hard axle]

No, it ain't

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah i wouldnt call it more afk

Its a lot more you gotta keep track of and if you're doing firefighting for permits, a lot more spamming

[hard axle]

There's like 4 different methods that balance effort and permits

[sharp cave]

in what universe is solo more afk than mass

what the?

[winged mantle]

The real question is "why can't you use harpoon fish in the cannon to put out the fires"

[nocturne solstice]

Fish are flammable unfortunately

[winged mantle]

Tempoross magic

[sharp cave]

i think it makes more sense for it to actually be a paid unlock that costs permits rather than just a flat kc

but thats not going to be a popular opinion because people wont want to "waste" pulls

[nocturne solstice]

I was crunching some numbers.
100 rounds at 5m per round = 8 hours 20m
500 permits at 8m per round = 6 hours 40m

So it's a reduction of about 1 hour and 40m

[minor whale]

Costing permits would be wild because it's both punishing people who did Temp and pulled rewards and rewarding people who did Temp and just sat/haven't claimed yet

[nocturne solstice]

I mostly see this entire discussion as an attempt to reduce the grind for the crewmember. At which point I would just suggest lowering the KC requirement.

[chrome lantern]

What are these numbers supposed to be

[sharp cave]

its pointless putting an exact number of permits? and it isnt even worth discussing?

[winged mantle]

Just make it like brimhaven agility tickets for shop and xp

[sharp cave]

like we dont need to sit and calculate the exact number of permits?

[meager flame]

tbh

i dont see why it has to cost anything

you already got 90 sailing

[analog crow]

It doesn't cost anything, you just need some temp kc

[sharp cave]

we are just subsituting the kc time for permit gathering time and they should be as roughly equivelant as possible

[analog crow]

ezpz

[nocturne solstice]

100 rounds is the current 100 kc, 5m is about average for a mass world (4-6m)
500 permits is 100 kc x 5 with 5 being the average permit per mass game. 8m is the average time for a solo run I've found though it might be closer to 9m. Just an average.

[meager flame]

ya i think people are just doing insane backflips here

[chrome lantern]

solos are like twice that length if you're focusing points

[meager flame]

i think getting your sailing level to 90 was a big enough time sink

[chrome lantern]

Also worth noting that the highest level crewmember doesn't even have an unlock requirement listed at 95 Sailing

[nocturne solstice]

How long? ngl I was kinda basing it off my recent solo runs but they were xp focused to the time might be off

[meager flame]

lmao like really what is even the point of being like oh ho ha ha you didn't get 100 temp kc you silly idiot

[nocturne solstice]

You thinking 14m? I can recalc it

[meager flame]

should've thought about that before you got to 90 sailing huh

now lets waste another 8 hours

hehehehe

like whats the point lmao

[chrome lantern]

I haven't done it in like 2-3 years tbh because I hate that place but I remember them being like 15+ minutes

[nocturne solstice]

Well the reason would depend on what they can do

[sharp cave]

idk if i fully agree with this

[nocturne solstice]

If the spirit angler has a unique passive or something that's really helpful then that would be the reason for the "additional" 8 hour grind

[analog crow]

She's a spirit angler, it makes sense you need some spirit angler street cred

[chrome lantern]

I found a screenshot from my friend that's a pet hunter

[nocturne solstice]

I think it makes sense too

[sharp cave]

idk the sailing requirement for the rosewood trees but it would be insane to say that if it was 90 sailing also that the trees should ahve a low wc level?

[meager flame]

its also completely out of line with the other npcs you can recruit

if that helps

[chrome lantern]

Looks like they got 13 min games

[nocturne solstice]

Iunno you could probably say that about the others too like omfg I gotta do this stupid vampire quest for sailing??

[meager flame]

no i mean like

[chrome lantern]

There's a big difference between a quest and doing 10 hours of Tempoross when none of the other crewmates require anything remotely that much

[analog temple]

When you guys worldhop is it randomly zooming in?

[meager flame]

literally compared to all of the current listed crewmates nothing is close

[chrome lantern]

The longest quests in this game take like 3 hours max

[nocturne solstice]

Maybe we'll get a void knight that costs 300 pc points

[nocturne solstice]

nope

[meager flame]

i dont even really care because i have my kc but

lol this seems a little silly for no real reason

[winged mantle]

@nocturne solstice if I add to one of my game suggestions does that count as a bump? (More ideas/ more thoughts)

[nocturne solstice]

Nah thats fine

[sharp cave]

to be perfectly honest i think the whole skill is a waste of time and they should have just added charter ships to all the new locations

[nocturne solstice]

I only consider it a bump if its literally just someone saying bump or something that doesn't contribute much multiple times like one user posting by themselves 4 times in the row something like "Great idea!" "Let's add this!" "Jagex when??"

[meager flame]

also another big silly thing here

[winged mantle]

Got you

[nocturne solstice]

Have you tried sailing in the tests?

[meager flame]

we all know that jagex took the kc requirements for CAs and binned them because it was an unfun waste of time in a way right

well temp was moved from 50 to 10

and now they ask for 100

so im pretty sure if you pointed that out

they'd change their minds

they dont even agree with this shit lol

[sharp cave]

not rly no but idc

[meager flame]

they just didn't think about it

[sharp cave]

i tried the stress test and it was boring

[frail bough]

i think the fact that its more thematic makes sense

id be willing to bet they did think about it

[sharp cave]

ok there was only a big circle to go around but idk how thats fundamentally different that going thru any of the rest of the empty ocean

[nocturne solstice]

Eh as long as you tried it then fair enough.

[analog crow]

I wish all the crewmembers had some conditions beyond sailing level
Make you work a little for it

[frail bough]

exploration and things

[sharp cave]

the baracuda trials and stuff? like sure that might be fun? i guess? but did that really have to be a skill?

[meager flame]

i agree with this if its actually interesting

if its get 100 kc while wanting to die on a mass world

hard pass

[sharp cave]

its the same issue as dungeoneering tbh, the content was great

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah it kinda has to be a skill if it was how it is now tbh

[sharp cave]

but doing the same floors 100 times to gain a single level was cringe

just as doing the same baracuda trial 100 times will be cringe

or going around in loops salvaging

[meager flame]

ya its the concept no osrs dev wants to acknowledge

there is only so long something can be interesting

and they lean heavily into going far beyond that for basically everything in this game

[sharp cave]

and i still also think sailing only won because of how "baised" the poll was

[nocturne solstice]

What skill were you rooting for?

[meager flame]

im sure they get it they just would probably rather not talk about it too in depth or more people would be a bit more critical of it

[chrome lantern]

I was rooting for "None of the above" but I knew my vote didn't really even count

[sharp cave]

i didnt really like any of them

but probalbly shamanism

[meager flame]

osrs does multiple things but fun and a sense of progression are not directly linked

they trap a lot of us doing things to feel the progression

even beyond when we stop having fun

[nocturne solstice]

Like what

[sharp cave]

is this the right poll?

[nocturne solstice]

I feel like for the most part you can stop and do something else anytime

[meager flame]

you can

but many people dont

so what are they getting out of it

[sharp cave]

if so it only beat shamanism by 0.4%? and thats with sailing being such a "memed" concept

[nocturne solstice]

Well you can't blame Jagex for that.

[meager flame]

i mean idk if blaming them is the right way of putting it

but they totally buy into it and hope for that to happen

[nocturne solstice]

Maybe I misunderstood then since thats the impression I got with the "They trap a lot of us" bit

[chrome lantern]

Mod Husky absolutely 100% seems to think and play this way and put this intentionally into game design

[sharp cave]

i think all of the actual content added by sailing is going to be great, im excited for all the new places to visit and all of the new mobs/drops ect

[meager flame]

i mean the game is dripping in that type of game design its not just husky its how it goes down for osrs

almost everything we have in the game has some element of it

like lol

[lucid talon]

I mean i am not all about it yet but i could get into it. I am more or less worried that OSRS will slowly start to turn into rs3 and that will kill the game.

[meager flame]

we think drop rates that take longer than most AAA games are short form content

[sharp cave]

???

why and how

[nocturne solstice]

Nah I think the winner was determined by question 2 not 1 since that was a multi.

Voted for taming btw

So it beat shamanism by 3%

[sharp cave]

how do u see what u voted for

[nocturne solstice]

you can do it in game

go to a poll booth

kinda neat

[chrome lantern]

From Mod Husky: "If you're an account that's grinding out all your Dragon sheets for yourself, it's probably going to take quite a while"

"I'm that ironman that... I don't care that I had to grind 12 thousand demons for my Radiant Oathplate, I just sat there and grinded the content."
Reminder that this is what Mod Husky thinks is good game design basis for OSRS. He literally is intentionally putting out content that sucks if you actually have to grind it out for yourself, and the arbitrary kc requirement that goes past what they thought was reasonable for CAs reflects that.

[lucid talon]

Well look at it this way when they added summoning into rs2 it wasnt too bad then they added another skill then changed into rs3 and they have kept adding skills since then

[meager flame]

oh i know i honestly really disagree with him a lot because he's on a pretty

extreme end of that type of thinking

but its pretty much how all content is designed for osrs

it just varies by how extreme it gets

[sharp cave]

apparently i didnt vote 🙃

[nocturne solstice]

Oh so thats were people got that quote from, about dragon sheets being like grinding demons for oathplate

man that feels super taken out of context

[chrome lantern]

It's one thing to say, "You're on a restricted account - work within those restrictions."

I agree with that take and think that ironmen are 100% absolutely part of the subset of restricted accounts.

It's entirely another thing to intentionally design content that way

[sharp cave]

pretty sure i voted shamanism 🤔

[meager flame]

i totally get why hes like that too

[chrome lantern]

He literally made the comparison himself, that is the context.

[analog crow]

I remember listening to him on sae bae and he was talking about the "prestige" of rare drops etc and that ironmen shouldn't expect to be able to get all the gear they want

[nocturne solstice]

To be fair yours doesnt look like mine so many a plugin is changing it for you?

I dunno though

[chrome lantern]

He was asked about Dragon metal sheets and he literally brought up Radiant himself

[meager flame]

i maxed two accounts i noticed how my standards changed and what used to be a grind changed to easy and something unthinkable became my current grind over time

[chrome lantern]

And killing tens of thousands of demons

[meager flame]

i just think a lot of people dont really clock that change

so they say things that sound insane

[chrome lantern]

It's one thing to chase rare things on a limited account

[meager flame]

well

not sound

[chrome lantern]

It's another thing to intentionally design content in a way that nobody enjoys it whatsoever to artificially make it a sucky grind

[meager flame]

things that kind of are insane

[chrome lantern]

Which is what dragon sheets in this case are

It's what Awakener orbs and Radiant contracts are

[nocturne solstice]

He was giving an example of him grinding content, not that it was going to be a 1 for 1 gosh.

[sharp cave]

just resource packs dark mode

[meager flame]

its not just that if you listen to him talk on podcasts or people bring up ironmen and qol

it leaks out

[chrome lantern]

It's not a 1 for 1 and nobody said it is, just that the concept is the same, and the way you interact with it is the same in the sense that it's intentionally unenjoyable content where you grind and grind menial labor for stuff like this

[nocturne solstice]

Maybe try disabling it? Should just be a quick toggle and just flip it back on if it doesnt change anything.

[sharp cave]

yeah no difference dunno

[minor whale]

It's part of the gamemode
I don't think everything needs to be catered to being super accessible for irons
It's part of the reason so much gear is worth shit because they make it so easy to get solo that a lot of the process of making multi-part gear is lost

[sharp cave]

i just think i didnt vote lol

[meager flame]

he's definitely in that camp of "if you're an iron this should be terrible and that's what it means to be iron"

very similar to the original release of the mode

its just that the game left that behind a long time ago

[chrome lantern]

If I am answering a question about "How will it be to grind Dragon metal sheets?" and I compare it to Radiant oathplate contracts, that's not an accident

[sharp cave]

theres a difference between accessible and horrible though?

[meager flame]

so he's a little bit old man yelling at clouds for irons

basically lol

[frail bough]

i think it would be more accurate to say that he's saying updates dont need to cater to ironman gamemode and if you chose to play it you can do it or not

[meager flame]

and its fine like tons of people disagree about that stuff

its just obvious what his stance is

[frail bough]

i dont think anyone in the game thinks things should just suck and thats what it means to be an iron, thats silly

much less him

[meager flame]

dude honestly

[sharp cave]

they were modernising the game back then, trying to chase the market

[meager flame]

tons of people directly say that lmao

[frail bough]

no they dont

[chrome lantern]

It's like if you intentionally design in the Death talisman for Mourning's End part 2 but don't make the 50-item list or Catalytic talisman

"Well, you're an ironman, so this is what you signed up for!"

"Go get 90 slayer!"

No, you just made that yourself

[frail bough]

theres a very big difference between outdated design ideas from people who didnt even create the content and taking an entire statement out of context

[nocturne solstice]

#game-update message
Maybe Im just misinterpreting since I did misinterpret then too but you were the one saying they were the same no?

[minor whale]

If your endgame boat which isn't necessary for you to enjoy the game requires a lot of grinding to get the materials that's just part and parcel of playing the gamemode where you can't trade to make it easier/faster/less grindy

[nocturne solstice]

At least thats the vibe I got

[frail bough]

him saying it isnt the context, it was obviously an example of him saying he would grind things to grind things because he's and ironman and thats just how it is.

[chrome lantern]

What do you think 1-for-1 means

[meager flame]

personally i think but dont know but i think that the sailing grind wont even be that bad

[chrome lantern]

Because I'm not saying and he's not saying that you're going to go grind 12k demons to get radiant contracts to get dragon metal sheets

[nocturne solstice]

What do you think "compared them directly" means

Because to me it means you are saying they are the same

or at least very very similar

[meager flame]

i feel like a lot of their commentary is aimed at people who play a lot less osrs than i do

[chrome lantern]

Very similar would be a correct interpretation

Because that's the comparison he made

[meager flame]

so when they say something will cost a lot or be a hard grind

they probably mean for someone that doesn't have billions or went crazy to loot a tbow in cox

its probably going to be relatively simple

[chrome lantern]

"How hard of a grind will it be"
"You know grinding contracts for Radiant oathplate? Yeah, that"

[nocturne solstice]

Thats not what they said though

[analog crow]

yeah It can be anywhere from a 1/128 to a 1/3000 drop from strykeworms and the statement is still true

[chrome lantern]

He implied it was a healthy grind and said that the dragon sheets were also a very big grind

[meager flame]

and honestly if it comes out and you have to kill 3k strikewyrms for 1 dragon sheet

they'll nerf it

[chrome lantern]

That's very explicit to me

[meager flame]

guaranteed

not even a question

[sharp cave]

lol

[chrome lantern]

He used the term "Quite a while"

[frail bough]

yeah you sorta have to keep in mind that they want this to be as successful as possible

[meager flame]

i mean its true

[chrome lantern]

And then said that he grinded out Radiant oathplate contracts from tens of thousands of demons in the same breath

[nocturne solstice]

Man I do enjoy that this discussion is really putting our english classes to good use.

[meager flame]

that is one of those really obvious "not playing the game is very efficient because it will be made substantially easier" moments

[analog crow]

"quite a while" can be anywhere from 10 to 1000 hours depending on who he's speaking to

[nocturne solstice]

A lot of analysis of the text to interpret author intent lmao

[chrome lantern]

Have you tried it

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah its funny

[sharp cave]

i was really hoping there would be a cannonball shop

[chrome lantern]

"It will take quite a while"
"Here's something that I am comparing it to that also takes 'quite a while'"

[sharp cave]

one that sells at least up to steel

[meager flame]

its a thieving stall

[chrome lantern]

You can't really get more clear with your intent

[nocturne solstice]

There's a thieving store so surely

surely a cannonball shop

[meager flame]

it would have 0 stock or something most likely

[analog crow]

Bots will keep it at 0 true

[nocturne solstice]

Thats you putting words in his mouth. He said clearly in the message you quoted and forwarded.

"It's probably going to take quite a while"
Then in a new sentence
"I'm that ironman that... I don't care that I had to grind 12 thousand demons for my Radiant Oathplate".

It's a new sentence and it's about him talking about himself now.

[meager flame]

its not even that

just the idea that you could world hop buy cannonballs is way too good

[nocturne solstice]

He did not say "It's going to take quite a while, like farming radiant oathplate from demons".

[meager flame]

they're gonna want to make people do that

so its worth money

[sharp cave]

i will actually cry

[chrome lantern]

Then you want me to focus on the fact that he said he expects them to be incredibly expensive and need very high quantities of them

Because that also demonstrates implied scarcity/rarity and a long grind

[sharp cave]

the new "fast" smithing cannonballs forge thing is like 90 sailing too

[chrome lantern]

81

[meager flame]

tbh i think its kind of perplexing in general

[analog crow]

90 sailing looking like a snack fr

[meager flame]

you cant even use them until 86 sailing

[chrome lantern]

But also even at 2x speed cballs will still be awful

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah thats fine, if you have a quote of him saying that it's incredibly expensive and needing high quantities of them sure.

[meager flame]

and they seem to make things that you probably would make once ever

and assuming they aren't totally insane

[nocturne solstice]

Jagex are known for underestimating their playerbase so who knows

[meager flame]

the cannonballs and nails are likely coming from something else

[nocturne solstice]

maybe people will just afk cannon the wyrms and be fine

[sharp cave]

thats so high, having to go all the way up without decent access to ammo for the skill...

[nocturne solstice]

or the dragons, or maybe even the gryphon drops em

idk

[chrome lantern]

It’s in there same portion of the Q&A

[analog crow]

Let's wait, try the content and then make up an opinion about the length of the grind

[meager flame]

i mean the way it sounds to me

we're getting about 1/3rd of the skill we will have 2 years from now

you're gonna be able to get by to 99 with like

basically level 70s equipment

[chrome lantern]

They’re only from Lava Strykewyrms (still appalled at the name/creation of these) and Frost Dragons (also extremely disappointed in porting these)

[meager flame]

so adamant and some new trees

maybe a little rune

and the rest of the sailing build is just

extra that you dont even care about

during this part of the roll out

[chrome lantern]

Really what it comes down to is that they went into the design with the express purpose of making them suck to get

[small anvil]

Did they say what they're for?

[analog crow]

I suspect that was not their purpose in the dev meetings

[small anvil]

Is it purely cosmetic bigger ship

[meager flame]

its actually probably closer to muh economy game design

[small anvil]

Or is it functional

[meager flame]

seems to be the only reason you'd kill the npcs that drop them

[analog crow]

dragon hull probably needed to travel in certain areas or get tankier ship ig

[small anvil]

Oh... That's gonna suck so bad

[meager flame]

later probably

[chrome lantern]

The average billybob will kill then because the dragons got forced into the slayer task list and the wyrms have less sucky drops than the regular wyrms

[meager flame]

the rosewood hull and so on start at level 93 sailing

no like mooring points or port tasks or whatever

get up that high

[sharp cave]

yeah tbh not a bad assessment

[meager flame]

so you probably wont need the dragon stuff for this round of content

maybe a couple secrets or something

[sharp cave]

im a bit disappointd we are only getting like half the ocean

[meager flame]

im a bit worried that they're gonna mess up the economy of leveling the skill somehow

and it will be better to do salvage instead of like trials for exp

because you need the nails etc from the salvage***

so it'll just be afk or tick manip like you're chopping trees for irons

rather than doing other stuff lol

[sharp cave]

i just wish this was a map expansion rather than a skill, with the "skill" parts of the skill sprinkled around as minigames with rewards

[nocturne solstice]

eh salvaging probably will be more popular but thats just because of players. Same reason more people do rooftops than sepulchre

I doubt nails will be the reason though. Super doubt you'd need that much.

[meager flame]

it might also quickly become the only reasonable way for higher end cannonballs depending on if they're allowed to drop or not

[nocturne solstice]

Possibly, I do think it'll be a source but never a "reasonable" way.

[chrome lantern]

Also waiting to see how bad Dragon nails are

[meager flame]

i mean i can already tell you nobody is turning a dragon sheet into nails or cannonballs if thats an option

with how they've talked about it

so those will only be drops from something

[nocturne solstice]

Salvaging is just so afk so I dunno about it being reasonable for anything.

[chrome lantern]

And then hoard all of them for future Sailing and never using for repairs ever

They did also say that they felt they may have been “a little too generous” if anything toward afk/salvaging rates

[meager flame]

i expect it to be good

like more than 100k/hr with tick manip

they wouldn't say that if you were sweating to get 70k/hr rates

[nocturne solstice]

I think you're being a bit optimistic there

[meager flame]

nah theres really no other way to put it into context with the rest of the game

[chrome lantern]

They did say Sailing would be between rc and fletching so I wouldn’t expect active methods to be less than 100k

Because then it would be less than rc

[meager flame]

there are tons of hard afk options floating around 50k and most of those with tick manip are around 100k

so if they feel like this is a little too good

its better than those

[sharp cave]

im sure it wont be something like 1/10k off task and 1/2k on task for 75-150 of them right?

surely not!

[meager flame]

it'll probably be fine though

other stuff they said leads me to believe you probably wont get those numbers for a long time

as long as you aren't afking for 100k/hr starting at level 50 it'll be fine

my random guess is that the skill probably tops out a little over 200k with whatever the absolute best method is

so it will definitely not be slow but also not be one of the faster skills

they seemed pretty confident that it wont be one of the slow ones

they also said that people would be 99 in the first week

so you can't even really get below 100k average for your whole journey to make that real unless they actually are calculating for more than 18 hours per day

which someone probably will do more than that but lol

[tacit wharf]

i took that to the likes of an alfie level player, playing 18hrs a day for 7 days

[hard axle]

Give me some sea dungeon exploration like in a Bermuda Triangle zone

[sturdy zealot]

Really hoping for group content on a boat

[analog crow]

In the alpha there was some dragonkin stuff on one of the islands
DS3 confirmed

[nocturne solstice]

they did mention a lot about crewmates and doing stuff with friend. I imagine a lot of stuff can be done with friends 🤔

even the afk stuff like salvaging or something

[analog crow]

I still want Virginia on my ship

[nocturne solstice]

I wonder what a spotter actually does...

Will she only help out if we have a crows nest? Highlight stuff?

[analog crow]

Good question
In rs3 mining there's some more interactive elements where ores glow etc
Maybe they ported that system over for some sailing activity?

[nocturne solstice]

That would work

I hope we get some more crewmates. I want a dude in full deep sea diving gear.

[winged mantle]

Crew mates I would like

• past quest characters that are no longer alive as ghost versions kind of like davey jones style (bob the cat, while guthix sleeps characters etc
• baby lizardman shaman
• pets as crew mates

[meager flame]

ya thats what i mean

you have to average above 100k/hr for 18/hr a day to hit 99 in a week

so odds are sailing is somewhat faster than that

towards the top end

to drag that average up

[analog crow]

high efficiency trials probably significantly higher

[meager flame]

ya

and tbh they probably weren't doing some insane calculation on the spot

you likely get a lot more than that

[sharp cave]

i want a quest where we convince ned to come out of retirement to join our crew

[analog crow]

smh they retconned Ned to be shit at sailing

[meager flame]

im pretty sure bob the cat is coming back somehow

also idk if you guys noticed but the boat we use for dragon slayer got updated

[narrow folio]

Are you going to be seeing other players in their ships? Will you be competing for resource spots or it doesnt matter?

[meager flame]

well hopefully since resource spots work just like trees

[analog crow]

the way it worked in the alpha you can see others on their ships, and resources are on a timer like deyalt

[meager flame]

they wouldn't have messed up the same thing they fixed with forestry

[narrow folio]

Thank god

Would rather it just be instanced but timer is fine too

[analog crow]

Seeing other players is pretty important imo

[nocturne solstice]

yeah, the entire sea being instanced would be a bit odd

unless you meant just the resources being instanced 🤔

[meager flame]

im still kinda surprised they didn't do something clever with the ocean to make it another plane of the world map

so they didn't have to deal with most of our stuff being 2 inches from the next island

[nocturne solstice]

I can see it being done with intent to make sailing feel more integrated with the world

[meager flame]

maybe but at the same time

the i guess "intended" experience for this game doesn't have nearly the same render distance we usually play with these days

we're supposed to feel like stuff isn't just right next to us

or at least thats how it was when they made most of it

[nocturne solstice]

yeah that makes sense

[meager flame]

its probably all so close because they knew we couldn't see it

lmao now its a bit silly because standing in rimmington mine i can see boats at port sarim draynor and karamja

sorry not draynor i mean the rimmington dock or whatever they call it

although tbh

you can basically see draynor too

[nocturne solstice]

It would definitely have been nicer for the world to be bigger to more accurately represent the distance of things we have in our heads but at the end of the day after considering stuff like how far people have to sail for stuff, integration with the world, making the world feel populated an all that.

It's not that big of a deal that things seem a bit too close.

[analog crow]

And it isn't the first time mods break immersion in a video game

[meager flame]

ya its not just immersion either though

they also kind of paid for it with how much space they have to design things and also what size of boat really works

etc

[narrow folio]

Instanced sea wouldve made sense to stop visual clutter, but we'll see if the waters look clogged with random boats everywhere or not

Tho i think entity hider could solve that problem in time

[round lintel]

my game was fine now is crashing every min

only difference is i started doing rumours and it crashes in hunter guild area

when i use whistle or getting out to the bank

[narrow folio]

Might be gpu plugin acting up

[minor whale]

They have a lot of room to add expansions to Sailing up North
Most instances are just hidden 8000 tiles from the Northern border of the map
So there's a huge area of mostly empty land they have to work with for future things, and they probably just didn't want to right away start dipping into that when there's already a lot of open ocean in game

[brittle cedar]

anyone in here know people that works on runelite ressource pack? Trying to find a way to fix the new skilling page we got

[warm storm]

you want the runelite discord

[austere mulch]

Kinda weird how all islands but the turtle island are basically like… the size of varrock castle or smaller

[narrow folio]

Scale's always been weird

[austere mulch]

Gz sail to island, run for 10’ticks and you’re now on the other end of the island

Maybe found a tree and a rock along the way

Would rather see a bit less small islands and some more mid-large sized ones

[warm storm]

i think it's implied that the distance between cities and stuff is much larger than we see ingame

some realism compromises are made for gameplay purposes

[chrome lantern]

[[Scale theory]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Scale_theory

[austere mulch]

I just want islands that are more island than they are small mounds of dirt

Turtle land is a good example, even leaning on the large side

Need more islands that are ~50% or so of that size and less that are the size of varrock church

[weary copper]

there will be a design competition later where you can submit your own island ideas

[potent thistle]

i'm one of the accounts affected by the "Fish Chunks in active GE offers aren’t converting correctly to Fish Offcuts, causing them to disappear when claimed or cancelled. The team is currently investigating any affected accounts" , where can i get help with this? rsn : iPubz @mods

[warm storm]

sounds like the team is currently investigating any affected accounts

should be a matter of time until it is fixed

[potent thistle]

i submitted a bug report on it too just incase

[ember token]

go take a look north of the border with osrs.world and you’ll see how much stuff there is close by

[round lintel]

2k tokens, 364 cyclops and im only on steel defender

think they are bugged

xd

ive had more empty rolls which are 1/100

prolly im at 20 empty rolls

[ember token]

nooo jagex im going slightly dry argh

fix your game NOW

[fossil epoch]

https://i.imgur.com/Ig6wpNa.png

Guess the update hit something in runelite lol

[round lintel]

Found this in reddit

[winged mantle]

will any boss drop tables be adjusted to include new sailing supplies/ resources?

[median jolt]

nothing wrong here