🤔｜theories

[vague imp]

Yeah, agreed, nowhere

I still think he's somehow David's Cs

[azure bay]

so do I

Do you want me to share my reasons?

[vague imp]

For why he's David's CS? Sure

[azure bay]

1. He looks like CS while being outside Dale's window (if it's really him & not his alternative form of some kind)
2. The writings on the pistol chest mean CS in 2 languages
3. In his letter he mentions that the pistol from his past life is his way to escape his state. I don't expect such a will to do that unless he's a CS
4. Even with suit he kinda looks like his CS from Hotel (but he really does not look like CS in general)

I have a bigger theory concerning him

his appearance outside the hotel window is really interesting bc it happens before Mr. Rabbit dies e.g. his CS being born

but many including me have missed a little detail there

the rabbit outside the window has whiskers, the one in Owl's autoclave doesn't

[azure bay]

That very appearance & his letter to Dale make me think that he's got a quest like Dale & Laura did in BD+Theatre & Seasons respectively.

[azure bay]

the whiskers can be interpreted in a way that he was evolving during it. Getting his more & more alive form.

presumably, at 1st he's got whiskers before travelling back to the time he died, then eventually the whole humanoid flesh-and-blood body

[vague imp]

Yeah, agreed. I think we discussed this before.

[deft quiver]

Actually I have some theories behind the game dev itself

Like how many people they have since ugh... Official discord, own web, etc.

[covert wyvern]

I'm not sure how RLs studio size matters to the game lol

[hollow comet]

meta 100

[vague imp]

Here's a theory, what if 'bad' ending in Cube Escape: The Lake is canon. The last frame of the game is the corrupted soul approaching Laura, this ending doesn't end with her death, just the potential to create a memory which could manifest as a black cube. My evidence? In seasons, when you cook the shrimp in the oven, the scene that you enter is of rusty lake, where you get a black cube from what appears to be a corrupted soul. If the alternate ending were canon and Laura got away unscathed, I don't think that memory would be strong enough to produce the black cube that appears in seasons.

[vague imp]

TRUE

But is that memory the black cube? And if it doesn't kill her, then what does it do?

The first cube comes out of the egg. Where do the other ones come from?

[vague imp]

Maybe it begins the corruption of her soul? idk it was just speculation with a some evidence backing it

[vague imp]

Okay

[desert marten]

it seems as though both endings are canon. after all, it's only in summer that you even get the code to open that safe. the alternate ending of the lake probably happens around the same time as the time manipulation in seasons from laura's perspective. that is to say, she goes back to the memory of the lake and fixes it.

[ivory girder]

Another thing, which is probably a disproof of what you said, is that the cube having the memories of Laura going to the lake is actually the white one (we can see it in The Cave)

[covert wyvern]

Theres also still the possibility that the two endings are from different timelines lmao

[deft quiver]

Rusty Lake in settle in UK?

Since Leonard's uniform is WW1 UK.

[ivory girder]

@covert wyvern

[covert wyvern]

do you really think I know where RL takes place?

you'd be very wrong, I haven't a clue

[ivory girder]

I think so 🙃

[deft quiver]

Mhm.

[covert wyvern]

A regular here argues that RL might be in canada

[deft quiver]

But Ida comes from US.

[covert wyvern]

which im inclined to believe.

[deft quiver]

Interesting.

But I don't see any RP (British English) in news article

[covert wyvern]

but I'm unsure.

[deft quiver]

Welp.

[covert wyvern]

they argue that the city TWD plays out in is probably new york bc that's where a cube was found during the ARG

[deft quiver]

TWD?

And what is ARG?

[covert wyvern]

The White Door.

it's an alternate reality game

[deft quiver]

Ah I realise now.

[covert wyvern]

the channels are still archived

at the bottom of the server.

I'm willing to argue that RL doesn't adhere to our standards of time and space

or, at least, space

and that there are multiple ways into RL, not necessarily all in the same country

that's a bit of a cheesy way to think about it but yknow

[deft quiver]

Yea...

[covert wyvern]

like i love roots, but I think the wartime level was a mistake

[deft quiver]

And I am sure that location in Paradox film won't be exactly where RL is.

[covert wyvern]

like you're right, there's a unfirom, he was likely even drafted

but there was no WW2?

(im pretty sure)

I mean I wouldn't want to protray nazis in my point and click adventure game, so I get it

but it messes with the timeline yknow.

[deft quiver]

Yea...

And actually what is in #zhang_yong_li

It's like a Chinese name.

And people in that channel said Zhang is a sickness

[covert wyvern]

Could be!

I was mostly in #bart_leeghwater

because Im dutch.

these are the locations off the cubes.

[deft quiver]

What in the hell.

[covert wyvern]

you can still play the ARG, there's no prize at the end of the line or nothing new to find though.

[deft quiver]

When you have to isolated 14 days, you won't fly to these place.

[covert wyvern]

okay, this happened last year

pre covid.

[deft quiver]

Oh

[covert wyvern]

there's nothing to be found in these places anymore.

[deft quiver]

And ugh, I won't go to China at least.

Oh ok.

[covert wyvern]

I'd love to go one day ¯_(ツ)_/¯

regardless

rusty lakes location is a huge unknown

and i simply like believing everyone can just sort of end up there

[deft quiver]

Actually I'd been Shanghai for business.

[covert wyvern]

even if it's lame LMAO

[deft quiver]

And I swear I won't go to Shanghai or China anymore.

[covert wyvern]

that's fine! but not important to theories 😉

[deft quiver]

Yea yea, I think.

[covert wyvern]

yes and if you mention them, you'll get banned

😄

[deft quiver]

Ok sorry.

[covert wyvern]

politics are against the #✅｜rules 😉

[deft quiver]

I just noticed, sorry.

[covert wyvern]

Not a problem!

just be sure not to break em and we're all good.

[north pasture]

SO THE ALBERT MESSAGE IS ||The Past Within||

which we THINK is gonna be the name of the next game

IF THE THEORY OF DALE BEING A REINCARNATION OF ALBERT IS TRUE I WILL

if Albert lays a FINGER on my boy Dale I will stomp him to death with my hooves

[silver anvil]

Well, we know that Dale is supposed to be the one to take over for Mr. Owl. In which, brings up the question, who is older? Aldous or Jakob? Or, in another sense, who has been taking care of the lake the longest?

[hollow comet]

Jakob is older. He was already Mr Owl when Aldous first took the elixir

[silver anvil]

I forgot about that.

So, we know that taking the elixir makes you immortal, but due to what Mr. Owl tells us in Paradox Chap. 2, it only makes you immortal to a certain extent; with the exception being the dog

And this brings up my theory that I have been wondering about.
What if Dale is a descendant of the Eliander family? It would make sense for Mr. Owl to keep the lake still under family watch.
It is speculated that James may be Aldous's son; which leads us to Laura. However, it is unclear if Jakob (Mr. Owl) ever married and had child(ren)

[azure bay]

If Dale is the chosen one by destiny or any other will Mr. Owl has no power upon he has no necessity of being his descendant.

But tbh, there are theories that relate Vanderbooms to Eilanders & Vandermeers to Vanderbooms, but personally, I don't really like the concept of the story happening all around the only family despite me adoring a certain Eilander-Vanderboom theory

[vague imp]

regardless of this fact, paradox actually answers this question. Aldous was born in 1799 and Jakob in 1775. If this wasn't included, you might still be able to argue that aldous was born before jakob despite the elixir fact, but paradox disproves it.

[hollow comet]

hmm yes I didn't bother to check the dates again kek

[vague imp]

And there's also the black egg powder that shows a silhouette of Mr. Crow when it's burned

[nocturne yarrow]

I feel like that was probably just for an easter egg

[deft quiver]

I think the game is somehow based on some Indian Buddhism?

And how Jakob becomes Mr. Owl during the time in ten plague to the hotel.

[hollow comet]

samsara is a concept right out of Hindu/Buddhist mythology, so yeah

[deft quiver]

Maybe the Hindi on past level in Paradox mean: Past, Present and Future

And I dont know the fourth

[hollow comet]

you're right, and the fourth one is /preta/, which is often translated as 'hungry ghost'

[deft quiver]

I think it refers to corrupted soul

[vague imp]

so are the Vanderbooms and the Eilanders related through Rose?

[hollow comet]

how so?

[vague imp]

When Dale put on the owl mask, two of the Eilanders appeared. That, and Rose is tied to the Vanderbooms through Roots.

[hollow comet]

the mask is probably just an easter egg, and Rose is a vanderboom

[vague imp]

ye, that's what I meant

<-not good with words

[hollow comet]

hmm but I don't think the eilanders and the vanderbooms are related

[vague imp]

through Rose specifically, or in general?

[hollow comet]

in general, they're not related, like family

[deft quiver]

Rose surnamed Eilander is possible

[vague imp]

possibly

[hollow comet]

but she's the daughter of albert and ida vanderboom

[vague imp]

just found out that jakob's mother was named Caroline, not Rose, so that shoots the idea dead in my mind

[deft quiver]

Ah hungry ghost! I just realise the achievement in Paradise.

Maybe it's really refer to the corrupted soul

Carolina's corrupted soul

[azure bay]

preta being referred to CS was confirmed back in Theatre. All the 6 plays were in a whole a big lesson about samsara.

[astral frost]

Any news about "The past within"?

[vague imp]

no?

[covert wyvern]

Keep an eye on social media and #📯｜rl-announcements you'll be the first to know

[crude horizon]

Does anyone know what the hell is going in the white door days 5-7 and their dreams, because I don't remember that you could uncorrupt yourself like multiple times.

[vague imp]

oh no brother i found some unused white door files but it's not allowed do share em

oh lord its so cool..XD

[onyx nacelle]

how likely is it that Mr. Rabbit from Birthday is Albert?

[nocturne yarrow]

I feel like it’s somewhat unlikely, since he seems to fall under the “deer” animal archetype, with the whole “wearing a deer skull” thing. Characters in this series don’t tend to get assigned more than one animal role.

[crude horizon]

I thought we knew that Mr.Rabbit was Jacob's brother?

from Paradox chapter 2

[nocturne yarrow]

That would probably be the logical conclusion, but I guess I don’t see how it would be Jakob’s brother

[astral frost]

In Paradox he is called D.Eilander

That's his name in the phone book

[azure bay]

the parents called him that as well

[nocturne yarrow]

I know that, but I'm reluctant to pin him as being the guy from Paradise because of the timeframe. I suppose I don't doubt it, but it seems like there's a missing piece of the puzzle. Maybe in a later game we'll learn about the original David Eilander being immortal, or using a blue cube to hop forward to Birthday, or whatever.

[azure bay]

Many believe Eilanders being reborn as Hotel guests. Personally, I tend to see there many clues that could indicate that

[nocturne yarrow]

my thinking with the Mr. Rabbit from Birthday is that he might be another incarnation of the "rabbit", who coincidentally is a direct descendant of the Eilanders. but honestly, having the exact same last name and first initial as David Eilander is just too odd for me to solidly believe that.

[warped reef]

Hello … i'm new but what motive for david eilander's crime in birthday? because for me it's for me the key to this enigma and the only thing I do not understand in this theory

[azure bay]

He is very likely to come for a pistol that looks exactly like Pheasant's

that what I think he calls "substance from his past life"

[warped reef]

ok I think I understood

but i think ...

[nocturne yarrow]

Do y'all think that we're going to get more information on Mr. Rabbit from Birthday? Because to me, it stinks of a story thread that Rusty Lake might elaborate on later, especially since there's so many mysteries involved in it.

[hearty coral]

I just saw the white rabbit from birthday drift past Mr rabbits room in Hotel... I've never seen that before, what's up with it? Couldn't interact at all, but I always assumed Birthday and hotel Mr rabbit were the same, is that not the case?

I'm pretty behind on the lore, just replayed cube escape collection and realised a whole bunch

[astral frost]

Just to explain: the rabbit-man in Paradox IS NOT David Eilander, but his reincarnation, to be fair. In Paradox and Birthday, we see the Rabbit-Corrupted Soul, which descends from Mr Rabbit and David Eilander first

[astral frost]

Long story short: the Mr Rabbit we see in Birthday is a Corrupted Soul. Corrupted Souls often want to reach reincarnation and leave their actual existence stage, and in Rusty Lake world there's a specific way to do this

Which is balancing the substance of your past lives (also called, in the latest games, "facing your demons")

That means, in my opinion, you must find and use some substances which represent the past in order to reach an equilibrium

In most of the scenes we saw, CS try to fix some traumas from their past (I'm thinking about Bob, Laura, Dale)

But there could be definitely more than one way of escaping CS stage

[nocturne yarrow]

Never thought of the CS interpretation before, but it makes a lot of sense.

[hearty coral]

That makes sense

Eilander is in paradise, right?

[nocturne yarrow]

yep, David Eilander is your brother in that game.

[crude horizon]

So David Eilander was in Paradise, got turned into Mr.Rabbit before the events of Hotel, died to Harvey, thus turning into what we know as the rabbit from Birthday. He then escaped the hotel as we see in the secret cutscene in Birthday, and after some time, went to Dale's house to get "a substance of his past life", the gun. He also killed Dale's parents.

[astral frost]

It's also possible that the substance was "killing someone" or "killing exactly Dale's family", although it would be strange

[astral frost]

Maybe, as you said there, Mr Rabbit has a deeper involvement

[azure bay]

Personally, I expect his own title to be published by Second Maze

at least at some point

But for now we're having Milo & Magpies, The Past Within

and something very uncertain for 20k B.C.

Ah & also teasers for Young Laura game that seems to be a kind of continuation for the main plot

[desert marten]

can you explain those last two?

[azure bay]

In early 2019 we've got teaser with mammoth in the Lake

Recently in one of CEC achievements we've got a set of objects that may imply a story behind them: a broken timepiece of Rose's, a key to the room 6 of the hotel, a photo of young Laura & so on. The achievement itself is titled "The story continues"

[desert marten]

hmm intrrepdinh

*interesting

[nocturne yarrow]

Where was the mammoth teaser?

[azure bay]

http://blog.rustylake.com/merry-christmas-rusty-lake

-5-days/
and http://blog.rustylake.com/happy-new-year-thanks-all-for-an-amazing-2018/

[nocturne yarrow]

Since that was supposed to happen in 2019, maybe it was a scrapped idea for the White Door

[azure bay]

it may or may not be scrapped

me & my friends are still expecting it to be released

just because it would be an origin of the lake itself

[warped reef]

ok I didn't think the rusty lake lore is so vast, thanks for the explanation

[vague imp]

Remember, the past is never the past. In Seasons, we go back and save Harvey. Therefore, he is still alive.
@silver anvil
If that's true then how is it possible anything after seasons spring happens at all if in seasons winter laura fixes the corruption in her soul. Then technically Laura would never die and the events of anything would never play out.

[azure bay]

the subject of changing the past is highly debatable

there are many different ways of interpretation, there are some different concepts in fiction outside RL

there are even retcons possible in the end

[vague imp]

Fair enough, I just wish rusty lake set some ground rule as to how time travel works at all

also white door has like 3 endings, which one is canon?

[azure bay]

depends on what you are defining as canon

[vague imp]

eh ill wait until I finish basement to decide

[azure bay]

basement does not contradict any of 2 other endings

there is also a way to see Sarah's ending happening right after the main one

[vague imp]

In the first ending Bob just switches back with his corrupted soul since he's gotten over Laura maybe, idk.
Sarah's ending is her erasing Bob's memories of laura so I guess they're pretty similair

[azure bay]

what I'm trying to say is these 2 may or may not contradict each other

depends on point of view

[vague imp]

oh, so since the both conclude so similarly, they could both be considered canon and it wouldnt change anything?

[azure bay]

once again, what's canon?

[vague imp]

huh...

umm... im not entirely sure

Also, if the Dale that shows up in the theatre with bob is the dale that just left paradox, then how does he have a beard if he shaved it off in Case 23

[azure bay]

I see many calling the story of Dale reaching his enlightenment in the end an only canon. I tend to disagree with this point of view but it may be more understandable for you

is it?

[vague imp]

idk i havent played paradox in a year but iirc one of the endings ends with dale collecting a golden cube and entering the elevater, which mirrors the ending to Cave, which is what I consider canon, im using this image right here as reference

[azure bay]

you don't have to. I made this picture 🤣

[vague imp]

oh

lol didnt see that coming

well I guess that explains this

[azure bay]

it relies on my theories that are based on facts. The problem is facts may be misinterpreted

so

[vague imp]

hmm

and people say kingdom hearts is hard to understand, I can barely figure out whats canon in rusty lake

[azure bay]

I think everything is canon. All these events just may or may not share the same timeline

[vague imp]

I always thought that birthday and theatre occur while dale is descending into the lake, but this makes a bit more sense, besides that beard thing

[azure bay]

I'll try to explain everything as I understand it. Is it fine by you?

[vague imp]

sure

[azure bay]

I'll start with the elevator

[vague imp]

k

[azure bay]

in Case 23 it goes down & Dale says that he does not feel his body anymore, his memories are floating in cubes & so on

the next game RL want us to play is BD

Dale is still in the elevator & still tells the same stuff

[vague imp]

mhmm

[azure bay]

at first, that would make me think that BD is happening right after Case 23

but then I see that the elevator goes in different directions during these 2 installments, plus, the config of buttons is different

[vague imp]

huh

[azure bay]

then we have The Cave released at some point

on the mural we're seeing Dale reaching the bottom of the lake, leaving the elevator & walking through CS of the former hotel quests

(right before an arrow goes into Paradox on my scheme)

his walk ends inside a big white cube

[vague imp]

I mean you could say that dale has been trapped in the paradox loop for a few months, between summer and December of 1972.

[azure bay]

I used to think so but that's not that easy

for now let's not go into Paradox

[vague imp]

ok

[azure bay]

cause we're reviewing The Cave

so

Dale goes into big cube

eventually we as Mr. Crow are getting there as well

& see Dale sitting unconscious as well as Laura's CS

We connect these to a machine, create a golden cube, give it to Dale (now standing but still seemingly unconscious) & send him via the elevator upwards

these events are fitting well between Case 23 & BD, do you agree?

[vague imp]

yes

[azure bay]

ok so

[vague imp]

it makes sense

[azure bay]

Paradox is not that simple

partly because of the beard

[vague imp]

ohno the beard

its like mickey's shoes from kingdom hearts

[azure bay]

so before diving into it I'll go to beard in Theatre first

Theatre is Dale's return to late 1971. Presumably, this memory is altered by Mr. Owl & Crow

[vague imp]

which would explain why the events seem normal to bob in his dreams, for the most part, right?

[azure bay]

or Bob did not just see the rest of the plays

not that important

at least for now

before Case 23 was updated for CE Collection Chapter 2 was announced to happen in Summer 1972. After Dale would visit theatre originally

so seeing him bearded before he gets shaved seems normal

[vague imp]

Fair, I thought that theater wasn't a memory for dale though, but himself actually traveling through time into the past (unlike birthday) and that might explain why he shows up in Hotel.

[azure bay]

he shows up in Hotel just as a prophecy & Mr. Owl vaguely indicates that

[vague imp]

hmm, ok

[azure bay]

so I assume that Dale adopts his past body while entering his own cubes of BD & Theatre

now we're finally approaching Paradox

there is no date indication so understanding its place in the timeline is not htat simple

[vague imp]

huh, so you're saying paradox occurs after unconscious dale enters the elevator in cave, and after he experiences bd and theatre?

[covert wyvern]

its interesting take, for sure.

[vague imp]

yea

[azure bay]

no. If you look closely into my scheme you found you'll see that I squeezed Paradox in between The Cave

but not everyone agrees

[vague imp]

oh, so why mention theatre and bd if they happen after paradox

[azure bay]

I've mentioned them before Paradox because of 2 reasons:

1. It was released after them
2. they are easier to understand & agree on

[vague imp]

ah ok

that makes sense

[azure bay]

so in my understanding Paradox may happen either before or after BD+Theatre

I've got some good evidence of "before" but I've recently discovered that it's not convincing for some so I've decided to consider the opposite as well

so the beard

[vague imp]

well if paradox is just unconscious dale the beard doesn't break continuity

[azure bay]

but it still would require some explanation

I have 4 versions:

[vague imp]

oh boy

[covert wyvern]

multiple timelines is multiple good.

🙂

[azure bay]

1. Dale just sees himself still bearded. Like he's already got used to his beard & being smoothly shaven is new for him (works well both with "before" & "after")

2. Dale has somehow preserved his beard since Theatre (works exclusively with "after")

3. In Paradox ch1 Dale's thoughts go back to the beginning of Case 23. That's why he sees Laura being killed & himself being bearded (either "before" or "after")

4. Paradox is a long looping sequence, but things happening to Dale inside one iteration seem to be preserved in the next one. For example, Dale's got wounded in chapter 1 & he stays so in chapter 2 & the movie (that seems to start right after). Plus, he preserves some memory of past iterations. So he could go through this loop for months from his perspective & grow an imaginary beard during that.

[vague imp]

I'm gonna go with iteration 4

Dale seeing himself trapped in the loop long enough to grow a beard seems logical to me

[azure bay]

but we don't actually know if beard is able to grow inside paradox trap

like he seems not to need food, water & so on

[covert wyvern]

isnt it save to assume his body grows considering the wound on his head doesnt keep bleeding lol

safe w/e

[vague imp]

wow I never noticed the amount of detail

[azure bay]

the funny thing. Developers could be not noticing as well 🤣

e.g. I'm just overthinking

I also see an explanation outside the lore

Dale either looks nicer with the beard than without it or looks more like David Bowles that was to play him in the movie

[bold sigil]

I mean the conversation in the theatre was a memory so it had to have happened before Bob went to the white door

[astral frost]

Yes it did

Just look at the various dates in the games

We have an accurate timeline more or less

[desert marten]

stolen from tumblr, but what if dale making bob all those cocktails is the way he flirts

[azure bay]

Then we have 2 conclusions:

1. Mr. Crow sees himself as a matchmaker
2. Bob is so cruel that he doesn't even notice Dale's effort

[nocturne yarrow]

I mean, the dude was in a depressive stupor, can’t blame him for not caring about Dale’s effort

There’s also the question of whether Theatre was a real event, or more of a “shared memory” that Dale had while in the lake elevator, and Bob has while at the White Door

[azure bay]

agree

[nocturne yarrow]

Are you agreeing with the shared memory theory, or something else?

[azure bay]

personally, I tend to believe that Dale & Bob at least visited the real location.
Probably, even at the same moment.
Probably, even spoke to each other.

But they do not remember seeing the same things, they do not remember saying the same things. Plus, they both present an interest to Mr. Owl & both have a possibility of their memories being altered

[nocturne yarrow]

I’m a little confused as to when that would happen. Perhaps between levels in Case 23?

[azure bay]

the old dates tell so

chapter 1 takes place in fall 1971
Theatre takes place in 1971 & after Laura's death
chapter 2 takes place (at least, formerly) in summer 1972

after CE collection release most of the dates were removed for some reason

It could be retcon, could me mistake

[nocturne yarrow]

Ok, I think I may have just figured out two ways it could work.
The problem with Dale actually going to the Theatre before the office level is that he was trying to find Rusty Lake- but the Theatre is at RL, so it would be pretty odd for him to come that close without mentioning it. However, Bob probably did go to the Theatre during that time. My first theory is that Dale was inserted into Bob’s memory of the Theatre, along with such odd elements as Mr. Owl and Crow showing up, and influenced the memory so that Bob was shot and corrupted.
My second theory is that Dale actually did go to the Theatre in the course of his investigations, and probably had the dialogue with Bob that he did in the hidden White Door scene. Cube Escape: Theatre would still be a modified version of those events.

Cripes that’s a lot of text, sorry bout that

[azure bay]

I don't see any evidence of Dale actually suspecting Bob. In Case 23 he talks exclusively about the lake, in the office there are no clues connecting the investigation to Bob, in Dale's own mind in Paradox the case 23 file contains nothing on Bob as well but there is a book "False Accusations" written by Bob

I admit I would expect Dale to be interested in Bob

but I don't see it happening

[nocturne yarrow]

So maybe it’s more likely that Dale never actually went to the Theatre, considering the lack of references to that effect.

Something I haven’t mentioned is that the Theatre is called “the theatre of your mind”, which really indicates that it was a memory placed into Dale’s head

[azure bay]

I don't see any reason for Dale not visiting theatre. After all the event seems to be hyped in TWD.
"Theatre of your mind" program could be just an altered version of the original one

or you are right or alternatively the theatre could be completely unreal from both perspectives

well

when I'm thinking about it

I prefer either "both semi-real" or "both unreal"

[nocturne yarrow]

Here’s a question that might help solve this issue- did Bob actually shoot himself in the head?

[azure bay]

It's debatable for me.
Some good friends of mine (really bright minds) would say "yes" because it's consistent from both perspectives.

Like Mr. Crow for some reason has decided to go against Mr. Owl & remove Bob but unfortunately for him Bob survived (this kind of shots is proved to be not that lethal) & for some reason we don't see a bullet scar afterwards.

But personally, I don't see any reason for Crow ruining Owl's plans no matter how cruel they may be (the lake seems to be much more cruel if not controlled). And I tend to think that the situation is the opposite: this shot was a part of the plan. It was a way to lead Bob into their hands. They might either create an illusion of the shot or make it magically healed.

[nocturne yarrow]

I’m thinking the shot may have been what caused him to become corrupted.

By the way, do we know what country or region all these games take place in? For some reason I used to think it was in North America but now I’m thinking it’s more probably Scandinavia someplace.

[azure bay]

What time exactly? He had at least 3 different times

[nocturne yarrow]

I forgot about the multiple corruptions, maybe it has nothing to do with corruption

[azure bay]

the corruption in Theatre game was caused by Dale extracting memories if we believe Mr. Owl

The Lost Soul case could be the same one just in Bob's mind

I have no explanation how but it could also cause the corruption in the PD

[azure bay]

Dale's city is in US because of his distinguished job. Plus, his company car is Chrysler (wide spreaded in different PDs of US).
Specifically, it could be New York as Bob's black cube & Hoorn's body were found there a year ago. That could mean that TWD is also there so Bob & all the others could live there as well.

But the lake itself is likely to be in GB (Leonard was wearing British uniform & the mill presented in the game was inspired by the specific one situated in GB) or even more likely in Canada (there are many lakes that are called Rusty, Daily Herald is also common in North America & lastly Canada was using British gear during WWI)
Plus, there are many immigrants from Netherlands both in Canada & US. That would explain so many last names of this origin.

[covert wyvern]

the lake is simply a subspace bubble with many entrances

(although I like the canada theory)

[azure bay]

I consider that because of van Gogh seeing the lake & the hotel back in Arles, but I'm waiting for more evidence to be sure

[covert wyvern]

Ye I base that on the lack of evidence

LMAO

like its also just easy for it to be anywhere\

[azure bay]

some see Rusty Lake as an analogue of Sumeru mount. The one that's in the crossing of all 6 realms of samsara. The top of it is inhabited by gods

deva ones

[nocturne yarrow]

I think the lake is a physical location, but I also think that it's a heavily mystical location, and because of that it may be difficult to just happen upon or travel to normally.
There's a few instances of people accessing the lake through very normal means. James and Mary Vanderboom (hopefully I got those names right) came there without any kind of special enlightenment, the Woman was able to go to the fishing shack in CS: The Lake, and Leonard was able to leave for the war and return. There's also the cases of the hotel guests and the Eilanders, though I suppose they're special enough that they could have entered the lake as a higher plane of existence. Due to the various people that have accessed the Rusty Lake Theatre, and the fact that it never shows up on the map, I think it might be a separate location entirely that may not even count as part of the lake.

[azure bay]

I'd rather connect RL theatre to the NYC & not RL

& I'm telling that there possibly could be different access points around the world

but it's still quite far-fetched for now

[nocturne yarrow]

NYC?

[azure bay]

New York City if it's the city of Dale, Bob & Laura

[nocturne yarrow]

Is there something that indicates their city as being New York? It's not unlikely or anything, I'm just curious as to the evidence.

[azure bay]

I was already mentioning that.
NYC is the location of Dr. Hoorn's corpse discovery

& Bob's memory cube as well

so it's likely that TWD facility is also somewhere nearby

so it's likely that Bob was living the same city

& if Bob was everyone else would as well

[nocturne yarrow]

Makes sense to me, thanks for explaining it

[azure bay]

It would be strange for me if Dr. Hoorn as a scientific supervisor of TWD was sent on a mission into distant regions

then he would go there himself on the condition of it being easy for him

like take the initiative

then we have Bob

we know that TWD staff have reached him at his own apartment

this time it's possible tho that Sarah would be sent to a distant city just to keep an eye on Bob

& later Bob could conveniently wake up in NYC in order to be just taken to the institution

[nocturne yarrow]

Honestly, that all just sounds way too complicated, so I'm going to assume the White Door is based in Bob's city.

[azure bay]

that's what I'm trying to say

but to be fair, making an illusion of Bob's shot would also be an overcomplication in a way

[manic cedar]

Question: if Rusty Lake Theatre is in New York, why do they take payment in funny money, instead of, like, dollars?

I assumed it's a kind of company currency for a town where everything is owned by Mr Owl

[covert wyvern]

I think they use funny money either bc: its a memory? or bc RL doesn't want us to know where theatre is located lol

[azure bay]

in fact, there are some other evidence that may indicate Bob living in a fictional country

[covert wyvern]

a fictional world would be easier to slide all lore in, but we can't deny the connection to our own earth

bc of well

the arg

[azure bay]

that's what I'm going to talk about

we see patient files from ARG using a distinctive ID system

[covert wyvern]

aye.

[azure bay]

it's the 1st letter of patient's last name followed by his or her year of birth followed by his or her country code

for instance, Leonie Poisson's id is P_1932_CA

everything corresponds her file on the site

but Bob's id is H_1931_RL

like Rusty Lake is a sovereign country

that would explain Vanderboom st. & Eilander st.

but wouldn't explain Dale's ignorance about the lake

so it's legit to assume that all these clues are just placeholders to hide the real locations

[manic cedar]

I mean I'm not gonna lie, when i played the games I liked the idea that it's this nebulous fictional America, based on a European's idea of the US taken from Twin Peaks and other media, not any specific real place.

[azure bay]

It could be an artistic move of a kind in order to make everything more relatable no matter where the player lives

[covert wyvern]

I mean ye I love the idea of the lake just being its own little place

which just has some weird lake magic which allows people from all over to get there.

[astral frost]

We must remember devs put some hints in the games about their native country, the Netherlands.
First of all, the painting of the Lady Of the Lake (Case 23, chapter 1): it was created by Lacus Fleo, which is a reference to the Lake Flevo, a lake in the Netherlands.
Then, we have the TWD number (the one starting the arg): its area code is the Amsterdam's one

[azure bay]

the phone code has a great explanation outside the lore

[manic cedar]

I mean it didn’t escape my attention that rusty lake is surprisingly... Dutch for being in America

I know there are a lot of Dutch Americans

But coincidentally three most important families from the game all having Dutch last names?

Plus obviously a lot of mill imagery

And Van Gogh references

[covert wyvern]

It's probably just the Devs heritage seeping into the games

I know I use a lot of dutch names for my dnd characters, for example LMAO

[astral frost]

Hey! I was replaying Samsara Room and I noticed an interesting fact

In the "lizard" stage, you can see some paintings upside-down

They represent Paradise Island, the Cave and the Corrupted Soul in Paradox Room

Since the main character is William, why those elements are there? I mean, either they are simple references to other games or they show a connection between William and those places

[warped reef]

i think is reference to other game because he have rusty lake hotel in rusty lake roots

or is bind with elixir of life

[astral frost]

Case 23, Chapter 1.
I just noticed that Mr Crow is inside Laura when she disappears

[wintry scarab]

couldn't that just be her tongue?

[hollow comet]

this is not looking good

[azure bay]

looks just like a tongue for me, honestly

[astral frost]

It looks like Mr Crow transformation in Chapter 3

[vast summit]

i thought it was just the back of her mouth, but it does look a bit like an eye

[azure bay]

not exactly. Proportions are broken. There's even no full circle around so-called pupil

[deft quiver]

More like throat

[brave comet]

Rusty Lake Roots is in England

[nocturne yarrow]

if you're saying that because of the british uniform, the Canadians also used those so it's more likely to be there

[brave comet]

Yes!

That is the reason

I tought of Australia as well

I think the Uniform is the same

Both England and Canada have snow

And lakes

Hmmm

[nocturne yarrow]

I suppose that it could be britain, but it seems more realistic to me that there could be a whole hidden lake in Canada than in Britain.

[desert marten]

not only is there the uniform, but them being in canada also explains the last names

somebody else can explain it better than me

[vague imp]

the lastnames used in rusty lake are very french canadian.

the problem there is, names that sound canadian also sound very much like names from the netherlands, which is where the devs are from.

[desert marten]

they're not french at all, they're dutch

the puritans apparently stopped in the netherlands before crossing the atlantic

and they're also associated with cult like behavior

[vague imp]

yes, but french canadian is very improper french. a lot of names sounds european

youre right

[desert marten]

it seems like the devs meant to imply that the eilanders and vanderbooms were puritan pilgrims

[vague imp]

that does sound very plausible

Ive always thought its interesting how removing bad memories leads to a soul becoming corrupt. You'd think it would be enlightening.. It could have something to do with how their memories were a part of them and removing them leaves them incomplete. Id love to hear your theories on the matter.

[desert marten]

from the mill, it seems like the reason is that accessing the negative memories will overwhelm the soul with them

[azure bay]

I'm starting to think that you go corrupted whenever you feel a great grief. Either you have a severe depression like Bob in PD & TWD day 5 or you horribly die like William & Caroline or you are forced to relive all of your bad moments if the memory extraction wasn't commited carefully enough.

[vague imp]

Okay so i theorize (from the one screenshot we got) this is surely (not) Albert im guessing it's either
A: Leonard
or
B:Frank
im aiming towards Frank bcs Leo does have a pegleg..XD

[azure bay]

why not Albert?

[vague imp]

doesn't exactly look like him

way too modernish clothes.XD

mdsids all together i just wanna see Frank n Leo

[vast summit]

i think it is albert carrying it, one of my friends pointed out that the hair indicates it might be the ida doll

[azure bay]

reality usually doesn't care about feelings of our...

[wintry scarab]

imagine if it's a movie/game combination like Paradox 😮

[azure bay]

Leonard with a prosthetic leg wouldn't have such a smooth walk, If I'm not mistaken

[vague imp]

XD i can dream, Harold!

ok jk jk im just joking lol yeah u is right

but i can dream

[azure bay]

It seems to be the case at least to some degree

Google does not recognize the image

[vague imp]

hmm

[azure bay]

so it's likely to be created recently

[vague imp]

yeah

imagine if it turns out do be really meta

and its one of the devs..XD

[azure bay]

I vaguely remember them mentioning possible future movies

[vague imp]

they are canon in the RL universe

[azure bay]

Is it statement?

[vague imp]

yes?

no?

i dunno?

[azure bay]

is it assumption?

[vague imp]

yes

[azure bay]

alright

talking about modern clothes

[vague imp]

those jeans look wait too new.XD

[azure bay]

it is not that modern. No jeans at the very least

[vague imp]

im sorry

jgoifd its just looks so slick n new

[azure bay]

just blue pants

[vague imp]

u know?

[covert wyvern]

can we confirm they're jeans?

the texture looks to vague to make any real conclusions.

[azure bay]

for now I can see they are not

[azure bay]

any clothes newly bought would look like that

[vague imp]

when did RL take place again?

[covert wyvern]

jeans were invented in 1871, according to google,

if that helps

[vague imp]

like actually..XD

[covert wyvern]

[vague imp]

i remember this game having a year?

in a teaser

[azure bay]

what's more, Albert & Dale are wearing pretty similarly looking outfits

[vague imp]

not like 2021 but like

[grizzled bluff]

Roots? 1860

[vague imp]

no no i mean the teased one

[grizzled bluff]

until 19 something

[vague imp]

w Albert

i remember there being a year

[azure bay]

it's later in Albert's case

[grizzled bluff]

He was born in 1867, so any game featuring him older than a toddler can have 👖

[covert wyvern]

👖 lbert am I right

[spice frigate]

you madee me choke on a noodle

[grizzled bluff]

[wintry scarab]

[covert wyvern]

you'll never take me alive!

[spice frigate]

👖

[vague imp]

XD

fdgjiodgjfddf

[covert wyvern]

God.

[vague imp]

what have i started

oh lord

[covert wyvern]

this is no longer about theories.

[grizzled bluff]

You see, this is why I haven't been here in a while

[covert wyvern]

you're here for a solid two seconds and this happens Sammy.

[vague imp]

im crying

[nocturne yarrow]

👖

[hollow raptor]

👖

[desert marten]

👖

[nocturne yarrow]

oh god that one actually makes sense

[deft quiver]

[desert marten]

that is legitimately scarier than anything in any of the rusty lake games

[covert wyvern]

(Again, please keep this channel to theories only, enough emote spam)

[vague imp]

So cubes are interdimensional

Which means memories are interdimensional

[covert wyvern]

maybe.

[vague imp]

Also

Since blue cubes are keys to the past

And let you change the past

And gold cubes are the keys too the future

And the future room in paradox chapter 2 os gold

It implies you can change the future with them

[covert wyvern]

maybe

interesting theory.

[vague imp]

Yeah

They always talk about the future

But besides in paradox chapter 2

We never get too see it

[uneven flicker]

Because there is... the image of ||Rose|| according to the Steam page, I think the actual characters as players are || Albert and Rose||?

[vague imp]

Yes

I think there are 2 dimensions like they said

And one is the living world with rose

And with the coffin pf albert

Albert is on the rl afterlife

throw him into super hell

Nooo

I love albert

There is some connection too the real and dead wolrd

Maybe a new cube even

this is like Starclan/the dark forest in Warrior cats likely lol

aka they can affect living cats

Black cubes def have something too do with it

Since albert picked one up in the trailer

[covert wyvern]

black cubes are simply bad memories, white cubes good ones,

[vague imp]

Yeah

[covert wyvern]

I think this is an indisputable fact about thegames lore.

[vague imp]

It is

Blue cubes let you chsnge the past

And gold cubes are unknown but its implied you csn change the future

[main parrot]

But if we change the past we change future right?

[hollow comet]

memories boutta be reversed

[vague imp]

Sorta

But you can chsnge the future directly with the golden cube i think

[main parrot]

But what if not

Like in marvel

[vague imp]

I wanna know

[main parrot]

if you change past you create new reality

[vague imp]

Yeah

The blue cube is confusing

[main parrot]

How many time we use blue cube

[vague imp]

Off the top of my head

Bday

Seasons

And its in cave but bot used

[main parrot]

İn seasons

And?

Hmmm

[vague imp]

Bday

Too kill mr rabbit

Maybe blue cubes help heal corruption

By going back and chaning bad memories into good onrs

[main parrot]

So there is a untraumatise dale

Yeah right it was in memory

[vague imp]

Yeah

This might have something to do with rebirth too

Maybe rose is trying to bring him back

[main parrot]

Yeah

[vague imp]

With roses knowlege of rebirth from the Qouiga board or however you spell it

[uneven flicker]

quite a off-topic but quick reminder: now here comes #🦋｜the-past-within channel!

[vague imp]

How exactly did william get corrupted

[gritty sierra]

Guys, what is actually corrupted souls and how and why?

[uneven flicker]

He drank the elixir in ||the secret chapeter of Roots|| and died. I guess his body became corrupted when Aldous took the seed from his body.

[fossil wren]

So I feel like each corrupted soul was corrupted for a different reason. Van Gogh's is greed, Bob's is bc he had the big sad, Dale's was pride, etc.

[vague imp]

Corrupted souls are when black cubes are extracted from someone

Like at the end of hotel

[gritty sierra]

Oh I didn't play hotel but I'll watch the walkthrough later i guess

[gritty sierra]

H-how'd u know?

[fossil wren]

Pure guessing

[gritty sierra]

Wow

[vague imp]

But i have a theory about the cubes

[gritty sierra]

And which one's william which one's bob?

[sand lark]

I thought Van Gogh's was also because big sad

[fossil wren]

William has a beard and becomes Mr. Owl, Bob is the one who loves Laura

[vague imp]

No

[gritty sierra]

Oooh i see

[fossil wren]

Greed Soul vs Big Sad Soul

[vague imp]

Jacob becomes mr owl at the end of paradise

[fossil wren]

Jacob and William are both Mr. Owl

[vague imp]

Oh yeah

[gritty sierra]

But i thought dale's the one that loves laura?

[fossil wren]

And also Laura I think?

[uneven flicker]

One thing would be clear: when their minds are in a state of confusion they have a risk to become corrupted.

[vague imp]

That would be incest

[fossil wren]

Bob loved Laura as seen in TWD and Theater

Dale was just the detective

[vague imp]

What exactly can cubes do

[sand lark]

The cubes are memories. Black ones contain bad memories, and white ones contain good memories

[vague imp]

They cure the plauges in paradise

Ik what they are

But what they can do isnt clear

If black cubes sre extracted the person get corrupyed

[uneven flicker]

And now he risks himself to save her. I think the Lake put some plans on them for their future

[sand lark]

They seem like a power source that they feed into the lake, but I don't know what that produces

[vague imp]

And they can link the dead and living world it seems

[fossil wren]

Wait what was that it?

[vague imp]

With you playing as a dead persons corrupted soul in roots

[gritty sierra]

That one guy in paradox at the last scene of door one or whatever the name is was dale right?

[vague imp]

And in the past within since albert is dead as seen by the coffin and he picks up a black cube at the stsrt

Implying the games 2 dimesnions are the living and the dead

[fossil wren]

Ohhhh

That makes sense

[vague imp]

Also

[uneven flicker]

good guess!

[vague imp]

Blue cubes seem to be able to cure being corrupted possibly

With you changing thr past making a new timeline

[fossil wren]

What about the gold cube?

[vague imp]

But not changing the current one

[fossil wren]

In Paradox?

[vague imp]

Gold cube is unknown

But in cave its called the key to the futurep

And the gold walpaper in the future place in paradox chapter 2

I think yoh can change the future possibly

[gritty sierra]

So actually mr crow and all other animals actually are dead people?

[vague imp]

No

[gritty sierra]

Oh god i think i need to re-play the games

[sand lark]

Are we sure that William is Mr. Owl though? I replayed most of the games this month, and I only recall Jakob being Mr. Owl

[vague imp]

Well rebirth

[fossil wren]

William is Mr Owl bc Paradox 2

[vague imp]

Jakob is og mr owl then william

[fossil wren]

Yeah

[vague imp]

And theatre

[gritty sierra]

Oh wow that can be two people for the same character?

[vague imp]

For the same animal characters yes

[gritty sierra]

And what's rebirth

[sand lark]

which of the games revealed that about William? I am trying to remember

[vague imp]

Paradox, cave, and theatre

[sand lark]

ohhhhhhhhhhh

[gritty sierra]

Sorry i guess I'm a newbie in this channel :( i can't undersatand almost all you guys talking

[vague imp]

Its fine

[astral frost]

Little thougt about the teaser: now we can be confident about the existence of multiple dimensions, which were introduced in Paradox

Second: when will the game be setted? Before or after Albert's death?

I'd say before his death, it would make sense

[uneven flicker]

I guess it's after, according to the uncovered images from the Steam page

this one

[astral frost]

Yep

So the past within could introduce new elements to the functioning of Rusty Lake universe

[uneven flicker]

I think so?:3

[astral frost]

I mean, something about the multiple dimensions

Where is Albert after his death?

[vague imp]

I think its the dimension of livinf and dead

And the black cubes have a link between them

Because in roots you play as a corrupted soul of a person who js dead

[astral frost]

Wait

William, in Roots, lives in the Human's world

He eventually appears sometimes

[vague imp]

Yeah you play as him

So there is some link between death and living

With roses knowlege of rebirth maybe she is trying to bring him back

But what do you think

[astral frost]

I was assuming Albert was the protagonist

Btw

[vague imp]

Well its multiplayer

[astral frost]

Oh

[vague imp]

So im assuming one player is rose and the other is albert

[astral frost]

That would be cool

[vague imp]

And at the start of the trailer albert picks up the black cube

And since that machine is cube shaped

The cubes must have some interdimensional properties

[astral frost]

Since now, black cubes were bad memories, extracted from various character

And all of them could re-live them (as Dale did in the elevator)

[vague imp]

Yeah

And i believe they can change to white cubes with the help of blue cubes

On steam it says one will be in the future and the other in the past

Oh

This might be useful for the blue cube

And gold cubep

Expanding on those

And it says that you have to solve the musteries of someone you know is dead (probably albert), and you need help from the past or something

Due to the talk of the future a lot and the gold wallpaper in the future place of paradox

I dont know theres going to be the golden cube om this one

I think the gold cube can chsnge the future

This game might explain blue cubes and gold cubes

Since blue cubes origins are unknown and gold cubes use is unknown

[astral frost]

I don't think we'll se the golden cube in the past within

[vague imp]

Im hoping we do

[astral frost]

At least, the Golden cube seems more related to Dale and Laura

And their story isn't finished yet

[vague imp]

Yeah

Well i hope they explain thr blue cubes

Since we dont know how they sre made

Only what they can do

[astral frost]

I 've just read the Steam page of the game

It says

You are faced with solving a mystery for someone you know to be dead. The only way to solve the puzzles is to communicate with the past. Different times, different perspectives, a singular goal! Cooperate and fulfil Albert's legacy!

[vague imp]

Ooh

So i definitally think blue cubes sre gonna be used because they can affect the past

[uneven flicker]

yeah this time the game is for 2 players... and Albert's legacy? oh my

[astral frost]

This totally could be another "memory-revival", as we saw many other times

[uneven flicker]

mhmm

[astral frost]

At least, I'm basing on the informations we have right now

[vague imp]

It does seem like the blue cube is gonna be used

It seems Rose will have to solve something and will need Alberts help

Yeahp

[astral frost]

Corrupted Souls must "Balance the substance from past lives" (which basically means facing past traumas and fixing them) in order to get the enlightenment

[vague imp]

Anyway i can sense im unwanted here so imma go bye

[astral frost]

No

Why do you say that?

Everyone is free to write here

...

[ivory girder]

Could that be Emma's black cube?

And that voodoo doll is actually Emma?

It is literally in the roots of the tree.

[covert wyvern]

the roots of the tree is a good spot.

[ivory girder]

Emma died in Summer...

Hmm I think I'm wrong because it seems like Albert is walking in a forest

[covert wyvern]

it could be fall, the season after summer, and only now the cube is discovered.

[stark oriole]

I'm not sure if we're correct to assume it's Albert? Like, someone else might be picking up his life pieces. Maybe Dale made it out of the loop.

[covert wyvern]

Dale does make it out of the loop, as we can see in cave.

[stark oriole]

Wait what now

[azure bay]

not everyone agrees on Paradox taking place during The Cave

[stark oriole]

I haven't played cave in a while, howd he get out?

[covert wyvern]

well then everyone is wrong

😉

(I might be wrong)

[azure bay]

The Cave has almost nothing to do with that. It's the secret ending of the 2nd Paradox chapter makes us think so the most

because of parallels

[stark oriole]

Ah heck. Secret ending? Not the one where soul dude kills Laura?

[azure bay]

nope

[stark oriole]

Wack

I have work to do

Thanks for that tip!

[azure bay]

I have one more for you

do the achievements shown in the menu

[stark oriole]

Bet

[silver hemlock]

Maybe the cube being in the roots of the tree could mean that the tree (family tree from RL Roots) had birthed the existence of the cube along with the elixir (idk if I’m right or wrong but just a theory)

[azure bay]

It'd be nice if people were getting the difference between theories & assumptions. This is not bad just may depreciate the effort required for the actual theories based on numerous pieces of evidence. It just may be frustrating for some.

Personally, I've learned being cool with that

[astral frost]

What if in "The Past Within" Albert tries to reach enlightenment (we could suppose he's a Corrupted Soul right now) by using his memories?

Maybe helped by Rose

[stark oriole]

Oooo

If he tries that then maybe thats why it all went horribly wrong

[astral frost]

Or maybe he's just trying to do what Dale and Laura did in Seasons and Birthday

Which is fixing traumatic memories

Albert could have some bad memories though

Not only about his death

But also about his childhood with Samuel and Emma

[stark oriole]

Could??

He threw Emma's kid in a well at birth

I think that's a definite

Wait that wasn't Emma's kid. Who were Frank's parents again?

Waot yes he was

[astral frost]

Emma and the flowers

[stark oriole]

Gah I am out of the loop

[astral frost]

😆

[stark oriole]

Also nice watchmen pfp

[astral frost]

This is just a simple thought anyway, I hope that the new game will introduce many more elements to the lore

Thanks hahahaha

[azure bay]

Enlightenment is too cool for a CS

I suppose he'd work at least for his rebirth like William did

I'm worried about him possibly being reborn as Dale

That is not the way I'd like the story to go

[oak pecan]

O...kaaayy.....i didn't think that :))

I must admit that it wouldn't be the way i'd love the story to go neither...let's just trust them they'll amaze us with the plot 😅 😅

[cunning walrus]

Did you know? In the trailer The Past Within is the music from Samsara Room

[azure bay]

It does not seem to be the case

I know that music very well

Just listened to it

still not SR

[astral frost]

Yes, I mean that

[astral frost]

I was thinking about this too, you know?

Idk why, just a feeling

[azure bay]

I may know why

they are both associated with deer

& their lifetimes don't overlap on the timeline

Plus, many find Albert a tragic character

e.g. he deserves a better life

[astral frost]

The friendship between Dale and Harvey is still a mistery, too

I tend to think that Mr Owl's letter in Birthday wasn't real, but one of the changes caused by the Lake

Harvey's letter was real, in my opinion

For 2 reasons:
-Harvey's letter comes out from the jacket of Dale's father, so I guess it wasn't something introduced in the memory by Mr Owl/the Lake power
-it seems that Harvey never wanted to interfere with the various "memory revivals": I believe they were Mr Owl and Mr Crow's stuff

[azure bay]

Harvey's postcard is a key to the Hotel snow globe

If this snow globe wasn't there originally, Harvey's postcard could be as well

But to be fair, a friend of mine forces the idea that it was Harvey to announce Dale's birth back in Roots

So he might have some connection

But in my personal opinion that was just a message for the player in order to open "the story continues" crate before CEC

[nocturne yarrow]

I feel like Harvey might have been tasked with monitoring Dale, as Mr. Owl may have known somehow that he would be important.

[vague imp]

this can be very real, considering that Harvey appears in almost every game that we control Dale

[silver hemlock]

And additionally he is also a bird/human as we saw in the secret snow globe code in birthday. So it could be something like a trio type thing where Harvey is like a security guard, mr crow is like a guide, and mr owl is the leader and organizer

[brave comet]

What did you guys understand from the paradox ending? (Part 2)?

||moderator of the lake, as Dale||

Will that have something to mean with TPW?

We saw a box, that might be ||the device from Cave||

[vague imp]

what secret code?

[silver hemlock]

In birthday once you find the snow globe, put the code 1894 (you get this from hotel) then you will see a secret cut scene

[vague imp]

Seriously? thx

[azure bay]

Harvey as a demigod (asura, as implied in Theatre) has died to corrupted guests. A rebirth in a bird form was granted him by Mr. Owl, as seen on the screenshot below. It's really easy to miss as the light beam strikes them in less than a second.

[astral frost]

I feel like Harvey spied Laura (he was with her in Seasons)

But we have no clue about the same thing with Dale, except for the letter in Birthday

Which isn't a strong evidence in my opinion

[astral frost]

It's true, I noticed there was also Mr Owl after many times

[vague imp]

So while i dont think we are getting a (full) movie i think we might get like a "3d universe" view aka live aciton video clips

[astral frost]

That would be cool indeed!

[manic cedar]

Ok, as kind of a newer fan I don't always know if there's a consensus in the fandom, so I'll just go ahead and ask.

[vague imp]

whats a consesus?

[manic cedar]

Is there a society of animal people around Rusty Lake? Consisting of people who somehow ascended in their previous people-people lives?

Like an agreed upon version of events.

[vague imp]

ohhhhh

[covert wyvern]

For all we know, most of them were slaughtered by mr owl

[vague imp]

i dont think so tbh the fandoms sorta divided headcanon wise?

[covert wyvern]

Yes.

I think we can agree that the cubes are cibes

Cubes

Cube shaped

And that's about it.

[vague imp]

surely

[manic cedar]

But they have jobs like: chemist, ambassador, actress

[vague imp]

doesn't matter since they are fucking dead

[manic cedar]

Implying there's a whole society somewhere?

[vague imp]

lmao maybe but if so

we have seen 0 proof of it

[nocturne yarrow]

I think they’re just normal people that became animal-headed due to contact with the elixir or something along those lines

[vague imp]

lmao ||furry||

[azure bay]

I believe that they have a society. Usually you don't put your rabbit face on the playbill if the ones who are meant to see your performance shouldn't know about your secret rabbit identity

I admit, there are ways around it (overcomplicating tho) so it's 50:50

[astral frost]

There's also another point about the Asuras (the humanoid animals): Mr Owl and Mr Crow can switch their form and look like normal humans. So it's possible that they live together with normal people in the society

[astral frost]

For example, Mr Rabbit worked as a magician in our society: in fact, Dale's parents found his name and number in the phone book, and they called him for Dale's birthday

[silver hemlock]

Yeah in the white door we saw that mr owl was the manager of the Rusty lake mental health institution and mr crow was living with the old woman in the mill (Both in their human forms) but as we see in cave they can only switch between their human and animal forms when they drink the elixir so this is suggesting that they created a large portion of the elixir for any asuras to switch back to humans.

[manic cedar]

That’s a great answer, thanks!

[azure bay]

These 2 rabbits are different in their essence despite being the same person. The one is the legit performer, the other one commits crimes in order to escape some state.
Asuras seem more secretive if we judge by Crow & Owl. They live away from people & if they show up in public they still tend to hide (like Mr. Owl on TWD site)

[azure bay]

There is no elixir available. These 2 are surviving on the weaker extract that's is also limited

[manic cedar]

Well the birthday and paradox appearances are both two different memories of the same event right?

Or do you mean that the hotel rabbit is different from those two

[azure bay]

Not quite. Paradox is detective's inner world & BD is more precise recreation of his past

[azure bay]

2 Mr. Rabbits seem to be all the same entity, but a little bit different personalities

[silver hemlock]

I feel like the rabbit is a symbol of something throughout the games because the rabbit appears in 2 games (birthday and hotel) but is also represented in paradise

I’m not sure of what tho

[azure bay]

These 3 are just believed to be the same person

Eilanders were searching for the enlightenment

They are expected to get one

So they are likely to return as guests

Then we have another Mr. Rabbit

Who's also named D. Eilander (like David Eilander who's wearing the rabbit mask)

[silver hemlock]

yeah so I’m assuming it’s the same person but just in human form?

[azure bay]

We can not be sure about Mr. Rabbit's form in BD

In Paradise he was a human

In Hotel Asura

& something of these 2 or even a CS in BD+Paradox

[astral frost]

David Eilander used the pretext of being a magician for parties in order to do something to escape his state

[azure bay]

More likely to steal the pistol from his past life

[astral frost]

Yep

In my opinion, it's like there are 2 types of Corrupted Souls

The first type: a Human whose bad memories are extracted (like Dale or Bob)

In order to fix their Corruption, and possibly returning to their original Human form, they need to re-live their memories (so we could say they travel to the past)

The second type: the CS coming from death (such as the Guests, Caroline or William)

In order to escape their state and be reborn (in another form, cause they are dead), they need to do something in the present

For William, 10 sacrifices are needed for example

Mr Rabbit, in 1939, tried to do something but he failed

[azure bay]

Dale doesn't fit, beacause his corruption wasn't caused directly by the memory extraction. Presumably, there was none at all - just the lake magic.

Then Bob also has got corrupted at least 3 times & only one of them could be caused by the memory extraction. The other 2 seem to be caused one by a great grief & the other one by the madness of the singular cell in the mental institution

Recently I've started to think that all the corruptions have all the same reason. A great grief it is. You feel it during depression like Bob did, you feel it during a horrible death & you probably feel it while someone is extracting the painful memories all at once if you relive them at that moment.

I tend to think so just because many good scientifuc theories are willing to find a common law of nature rather than finding many exceptions

[astral frost]

Right

But the fact all the Corruptions and matching enlightenments don't happen in the same way is a problema

[azure bay]

But the grief would make these corruption go in almost the same way

Sure thing there's something like that for the enlightenment

[astral frost]

But what about William, for example?

He just died

[azure bay]

Let us imagine his state just before the moment he died

He's finally discovered the formula

If we take the real world history, we know that many tried before him

& as many failed

[astral frost]

Agree

[azure bay]

& now it's his moment of triumph

He's drinking it imagining commiting so many deeds either for himself or the world

& at the very last moment he realizes that he failed. What's more, his victory was taken by his brother. The one who's even anable to recreate the formula

That would be a heck of dissapointment

That's quite far-fetched

[astral frost]

That's a cool theory dude

But don't you think it could be an overthinking?

[azure bay]

I do. So feel free to polish your classification

Cause it misses some crucial points

[astral frost]

I just mean, Rusty Lake games used to show us everytime that grief associated to the Corruption since the first game, Seasons. In the various memories, there was always a reference to Laura's depression, such as the notes on the wall and the prozac. Other examples were Van Gogh (whose depression and alcohol addiction) and Bob (total depression for his job career and for Laura's death). The problem about William is that we don't see any emotion from him: he's neither angry with Aldous (I agree with you on the fact he isn't as clever as he always seemed, and I think he let William drinking the elixir first in order to avoid death in every case), nor traumatized by his death and Aldous enlightenment. He's just interested in being reborn

And it would be strange devs didn't show us his emotions on purpose

[azure bay]

Actually IDK if there was a way to show his emotions

He couldn't hurt Mr. Crow in The Mill

Don't see reasons for him to be able to do so in Roots

[astral frost]

In the Mill there wasn't William

[azure bay]

There was another just born CS

That massacred almost everyone

[astral frost]

Oh ok

[azure bay]

Btw the order of drinking doesn't seem to matter

Dog's drunk first

[astral frost]

But in the Mill Laura's attacked Harvey

He was like an hostage

[azure bay]

What's your message?

[astral frost]

I was just adding a point to this

I don't think Asuras and Devas are immune to CS attacks

Well

They aren't indeed

Just think to the Guests and Harvey

They killed him

[azure bay]

Harvey was corneded by at least 4 of them

& he seems weaker than Mr. Crow

Hm

Maybe there's more to it

[astral frost]

Totally

[azure bay]

In The Mill & The Cave Mr. Crow wasn't in his power peak

[astral frost]

Agree

[azure bay]

& still he has avoided any CS even after confronting them

[astral frost]

But CS are a real problem, even for Asuras

Mr Owl needs someone to defeat them

[azure bay]

Not sure here

[astral frost]

I'm referring to the letter in the Mill

[azure bay]

I get it

The reason of this is uncertain

The meaning overall is

A friend of mine assumed that Dale is the one to balance the substance of their past lives

To be a messiah of a sort

Or, as you assume, it'd be in his powers do destroy them or smth

If I understand you correctly

[astral frost]

Yep

Well Dale is the chosen one by Mr Owl

He has a central role

[azure bay]

Maybe not by Mr. Owl

But by the fate

[astral frost]

By the lake?

[astral frost]

Also this one, for sure

[azure bay]

The secret ending of Paradox ch1 makes me think that the lake prefers Laura

As it would be gratefull if Dale would have sacrificed himself in her favour

[astral frost]

Yes, we assumed the other one was canon because of the elevator scene

[azure bay]

He-he. For me both are canon. Just different timelines each having a likeable outcome

[astral frost]

That is totally a point where the plot splits into parts

[azure bay]

I really don't want Laura living in illusions of self-repairing if her Seasons changes are not real. I don't want Dale's story being canceled by her actions neither.
So separating them seems preferable for me

[astral frost]

Well

I'm still thinking you can change only your memories, not the past

But I agree on the divided timelines

I mean

I agree on the fact devs could put the next stories into different timelines

Or maybe

Assuming the fact we see many dimensions in Paradox

There's something more than parallel timelines

[azure bay]

Another fellow-theorist of mine waging war on any time travel stuff is afraid of The Past Withing turning out a piece of evidence against his view

[astral frost]

Please explain

[azure bay]

If we understand the preview of the upcoming game correctly, there will be a way of sharing knowledge through time

The past gives clues to solve puzzles in the future & vise versa

[astral frost]

A communication

[azure bay]

For him if this communication results in changing the past its a time travel

A time travel of information

[astral frost]

Agree

There would be a simple explanation: the present character finds and enter the memory of the second character, maybe interacting with him

[azure bay]

He's also scared of Albert's call to fix our mistake of killing him

[astral frost]

That would officially introduce the timeline split

Like in Avengers Endgame

Idk if you watched it

[azure bay]

I have

[astral frost]

But I would hate a thing like that

[azure bay]

& that's the main possible point of coexistence of living Laura & enlightened Dale

At least in my eyes

[astral frost]

I agree with that, but this would mean everyone can change the past and create his personal timeline

That's a bit scary

[azure bay]

Maybe not everyone

I've noticed that mostly CS are seen to mess up with time

[astral frost]

Right

Especially with the past

(except for William)

[azure bay]

Many CS appearances in Seasons, Mr. Rabbit seeing his own death, William being able to follow any branch of his familly tree, William seeing young Laura, Dale's CS interracting with many versions of itself, even in BD & Theatre Dale is semi-corrupted

Maybe physical appearance in different times or dimentions is exclusive for CS?

The others can only communicate at best?

[astral frost]

Well

They are ghosts

They can appear and disappear, apparently

It wouldn't be so strange

[azure bay]

I mean they appear & disappear even at time they shouldn't have existed

[astral frost]

Yes got it

I mean

Maybe?

There's nothing certain about it, but also nothing which proves it is a false theory

Maybe it is another characteristic of CS

[azure bay]

I just need some explanation why noone tries to save Caroline or William who knew the formula

The time travel theory that relies on the butterfly effect solves this problem well

The Endgame-ish one doesn't without strong limitations

[astral frost]

Ok ok

[azure bay]

Just sharing my thoughts that lead me to my conclusion

My motives

[astral frost]

Got it

[astral frost]

This is strange indeed