Combat Styles Improvements - Beta Update

[molten pagoda]

note anyone with a crit build is getting 25% more crit damage erroneously so it'll be interesting to see how much they complain when that's fixed in the next update

[bright flame]

any affiliate community listed in #affiliate-communities is fine to link in the chats

[full bloom]

Crit damage is just numbers, it doesn't matter

[void lion]

😘 ty Cannon

[hybrid orchid]

Has it been mentioned about adding the heist items to the combat traders so we can experiment with those as well?

[lyric swan]

I know the gloomfire bow is in there. Not sure bout the others tho

[hybrid orchid]

I haven’t seen mercy or emberstaff unless I’m blind. Haven’t checked for gloomfire so thanks for that info

[bitter gate]

Do you think CA speedkills will change with the new combat? It looks like it does less DPS

[iron quest]

They said they aren't trying for endgame balance with this beta in particular, the beta tomorrow will probably be closer.

[bitter gate]

nice ty ❤️

[polar marsh]

Roadmap does show this is early game balance with mid and endgame balance later this year

[stark galleon]

Needing to wait a whole year for them to fix ruined mid/endgame

[polar marsh]

Got a acknowledgement by sponge about vamp penance aura being requested wanted still.

At least we know some of these discussions are being seen.

[stark galleon]

The most boring auras of them all with no use but for afking 😭

[dusky meadow]

Penance is for offsetting spirit shield drain

[void lion]

Most people would not be happy with their removal fro better or for worse.

You could argue strongly that Penance should just be deleted; we already have it's replacement, penance powder.

[viscid bane]

put them on... low level summoning familiars?

old god books maybe?

early quest reward... an amulet perhaps

or maybe just make foods that fill a similar role

penance powder is aight but it is pricey for what it is

[analog snow]

amulet slot penance replacement would be interesting

[stark galleon]

1.5m/h isn't the end of the world

[analog snow]

since it'd be competing with quite a lot of damage boosts... and also the dung necks where there's bones

[void lion]

I feel like the easy but imperfect fix:

Make Vamp Scrimshaw work for all styles

Just tell people to use Penance Powder and maybe buff gold flower rates.

[viscid bane]

oh, tie penance to prayer bonus. proselyte/monk robes make a comeback?

[void lion]

Very profitable and fast hunting xp though, would revitalize a viable skilling money maker, which is a positive thing.

[analog snow]

you'd need to make a proselyte that's at least t70

ehhhh

flowers are afk and whirligigs aren't and that'd just feel weird

[viscid bane]

set bonus that spans across white/initiate/proselyte could be cool. Melee-locked though, you'd want other solutions for the other styles

they also aren't augmentable, so it's worse than penance currently is no matter what

[void lion]

But it exists already. You can use penance powder right now and not lose an equipment slot or anything.

[finite comet]

https://streamable.com/6rexcq

Got a flight skip

Now re-learning a new rotation tomorrow XD

Range definitely equal damage to main game rn

[stark galleon]

That's AI

[finite comet]

XD

[stark galleon]

Btw, is it not worth scing zemo maybe at the start for more consistency, or does that mess up your phasings

[finite comet]

Still 0 adren with melee XD

Might try to get a rootling skip before they change things tomorrow morning too

And then do it all again on beta ver 3.0 XD

[dusky meadow]

vamp scrim is not appropriate for all styles with how much it heals (even capped) when you could be comboing it with styles like necro and magic already being durable

it was melee only for a reason, and that reason never changed or got alleviated, it got worse

[storm vapor]

Give the Vampyre bat familiar the Vampyrism aura as a Passive or activate it with Scrolls

[onyx jay]

For everyone complaining about survivability i think armor values should have more impact on the actual damage taken. But thats a defense update. As they are t90 armor supplies a total 9% damage reduction for a full set. Level 99 def gives 9.9% most people dont take these into account but they exist. Ive done a lot of testing to try and achieve maximum passive tankieness, and a tier 75 shield is better than all other single equipment buffs every time. Survivability should be a tank thing, power armor should all be squishy.

[iron quest]

Tier 95 Justiciar tank armor with Havenhythe P2 except that'll make the endgame players, who don't need tank armor, mad...

Same problem with Justiciar at OSRS Theatre of Blood, it's a "junk drop" because the point in progression that you get it is far past the point where it could be useful.

[dusk summit]

I also dont like the ezk, but because I find it horribly uninteresting, not because its "nerfed." It lost strong smash, but thats effectively all it really lost. But even losing Smash made it have virtually no impact on rotations. You use chaos roar before it once a minute after using the spec early in a rotation the first time. Woo... compare this to even lengs which are also not particularly interesting as far as fhe passive, but at least you check stack counts and fit the spec in where you can. Thats more than ezk already. Compared to fsoa which completely alters your rotation compared to not having it, or bolg which is constantly affecting it, or even either neceo t95 both of which affect rotations, melee just got the shaft big time on design.

I'd really like them to restructure both melee t95s to make them more impactful on rotations. I know thats outside the scope of this beta, but hopefully not years from now... ive said what could be cool is if frostbaldes awarded adrenaline on hit, and ezk became more combo focused by applying a buff after using a basic, then they satisfy different roles. But anything more involves is better than the live effects. As a beggar im not picky.

[barren spoke]

Hello, so I run the Combat Achievement Help server, I put up a poll to get feedback on the beta from actual PvMers who use these styles daily, and that have playtested the beta. Since the beta is going to be adjusted tomorrow, I am going to end my poll, and start a new poll when the new changes come out, but I wanted to post the results here about the current beta.

[void lion]

Why would you do it this way and not a poll per style?

[barren spoke]

So with the changes, I am going to post a new poll as well, I was clear in stating to not answer if not playtested firsthand, and provided a link to the beta and instructions on how to access it. I wanted clean feedback, everything was stated neutrally, the poll has only been up a day and a half.

This is High Teir PvMmer feedback

[stark galleon]

This is fake

[barren spoke]

I will next time, I just wanted to get it out there, um the precentages don't matter because I did do it this way, next time I will do smaller sections per style. First poll really, that is why, I learned some things.

[stark galleon]

[tropic mica]

For Runescape mobile Necromancy has too much overlapping of information from the 4 conjures and other sources of abilities.

[barren spoke]

also by the time I realized people had already started awnsering, I didn't want to loose the votes either so I didn't reframe it, this time I will.

[barren spoke]

No it is not, I can provide you a direct link if you would like to dm me, it is a public combat acheivement help server, we help people get gm and master for free, only effort and trying is required.

[viscid bane]

it's a small dataset but I like how you formatted these polls, good data imo

I would like if jagex put in some simple in-game polls in the beta like they did with the fsoa beta

although, they did get a lot of people logging in and voting without even trying anything... suppose that's kind of inevitable tbh, it's not like everyone giving feedback in these channels has tried it either

[barren spoke]

Thankyou, I do think structurally, small sections may have been better and more readable as for precentage wise what works and what does not. I just wanted feedback myself, because what I have experianced and heard others not like are not being voiced over here in this channel specifically. When it is, it is being immediatley disputed and I dont think people are being able to state clearly what they like and don't without replies on negative beta feedback.

The poll makes it so everything is just anonymous, but actual high end pvmmer data.

[tropic mica]

It's a T-95 with the appearance of a T-100 but the effects of reliable T-92

[stark galleon]

It was meant jokingly, although interesting didn't know there were other GM teamfinding servers. Wouldn't mind an invite for fun! :>

[bright flame]

feel free to send in an affiliation request to our modmail if you would like to have your server listed in #affiliate-communities

[barren spoke]

Yeah.... that is why I was clear on my poll, please do not awnser unless youve playtested the beta, we have over 900 people in the server, we got a small chunk of feedback, but still, the melee was something I didn't anticipate, or know what was wrong with.

Next time I may go ability by ability and make it super clear what the issue may be.

I myself use magic, and my opinion is that abilities shouldnt be removed, I did play test it but did not awnser the poll as I wanted votes to be neutral because I posted the poll.

I did awnser the ability removal for magic tho because that is something I have been highly against in here already.

[barren spoke]

Oh wow okay, thankyou

[barren spoke]

It is just people helping people

[barren spoke]

sent

[stark galleon]

Ty!

[dusk summit]

Right. A 12% damage boost might as well be more stats, ao its basically a fat spec weapon. Its just the melee sgb.

[stark galleon]

Ezk's 12% damage increase/less taken is huge, what are you guys on about? 👀

[iron quest]

So it’s pushed back from today to Friday and now to Monday D:
It can’t be helped if it can’t be helped but I’m still a bit disappointed.

[stark galleon]

Better late than bad (what we got until now hehe)

[polar marsh]

No its out tomorrow

It can be both

[void lion]

Yeah it's out tomororow andthen an updated version is planned for Thursday/Friday next week.

[tropic mica]

In all the grind games I seen I don't see the value of 12%. We're getting low balled

[iron quest]

12% damage over 800K HP is still a free 100,000 damage over masterwork 2H, plus your 120k spec.

Plus with most bosses allowing you to skip mechanics by phasing faster, a 12% damage boost can end up saving much more than 12% of your time.

[dusky meadow]

12% is slightly more than casting the debuffs for 10% damage dealt/taken on a boss like vuln bombs

[iron quest]

I agree the EZK passive is pretty “boring” compared to Lengs or the other legendary weapons, but it’s certainly not weak.

For bosses that will last over a minute against an EZK you (should be) using a bomb every time anyway.

(Sadly 0 time manual debuff spells are gone, I hope they get put back in)

[dusk summit]

Its huge, that's why its used, but it might as well be more stats. Increase ezk stats by 12%, woo same difference. Now its a spec weapon. If it wasnt overtuned, itd be apparent how boring it is. But people see 120k and go nuts.

[molten pagoda]

well yeah it's boring but so is fsoa and no one is complaining about that

i would go harder on the ramping

[obsidian cobalt]

I saw a post about the beta getting an update today or tomorrow, do we have any patchnotes?

[molten pagoda]

tomorrow for both

[obsidian cobalt]

nice, ty

[dusk summit]

Fsoa is far less boring than ezk. Change the crit synergy passive to 12% then make it do all its damage in 1 go. That's ezk.

[dusky meadow]

pretty much every "exciting" thing is because it's overtuned

people lost their minds with rage when FSOA was pulled down from 10m DPM AOE recursive critting

they still want crit magma back for 8x crit baiting for fsoa and unlimited adren with multiple targets

they still love severely overtuned tumeken robes just being "do your sun combo and do unlimited crit damage :)"

bolg wouldn't have been popular without such high ratios on its bonus damage

that's everything

even the old EZK spec was "exciting" because it was a bleed that repeatedly hit the hitcap

"wooooow 1600% weapon damage scaling when EOFd"

[dusk summit]

Yup. Id rather see tsunami not be crit based refunds. It'll be impossible to balance. Magic will still want to crit for fsoa, but it won't be unlimited power mode.

[dusky meadow]

they're going to be so excited for sun boosting bleeds for soulfire

[dusk summit]

For the record all I use is melee and magic. So its not like im saying screw magic and take away the bonk sword for stuff I dont use.

[dusky meadow]

Bonk is satisfying. What kind of bugs me is that both 95s now do that. Flat 12% DR/damage bonus plus a bonk every minute on EZK, and bonus damage procs that probably don't add up to 12% (and no pulverize if you want that protection) on lengs, while their spec is also effectively bonk with a different rng rule for charging it

maybe lengs shouldn't even have RNG on the on-hit, just always have it (numbers adjusted as needed), with more reliable stacking on a costless spec (bad numbers at 0 stacks) where you control when and how you need that extra damage, without locking to one target

[stark galleon]

where you control when and how you need that extra damage, without locking to one target
Lengs already work that way (and once you get 2+ stacks its free too)

[stark galleon]

Now its a spec weapon
It's not though, you use it for more than just the spec and it actually changes your rotations? 👀

[dusk summit]

Other than being an overtuned 2h, elaborate? You spec on first rot, then roar > spec the rest. Thats 2 gcd of 55 it affects in a rot. Compare this to other t95s and they affect much more. Unless you mean it affects your rot because it pushes lengs out and then sure, it does because it sort of invalidates dw.

But I'll paint a picture:
Take the flamebound rival/Ashen vow on ezk, change it from 12%+ and reduced, to 15% reduced damage taken and some other positive buff, or not tbh. Who cares. This part doesnt matter. Can do plenty that helps interaction. Crit damage, adrenaline cost reduction, cooldown reduction on hit, etc. Anything but bland +X% damage lets you lean into at least something more.
Add a constant passive that says:
Basic abilities debuff the target with "X" stacking up to 2 times.
X: your next damaging ability that costs adrenaline gets +10% crit chance.
Change the spec to: 25s cd, 50% cost. First use is the same as now and applies rival. 2nd use adds another hit. Could even have subsequent hits add more Rival stacks and more damage too. Wooo... stuffs.

Wallah. Now it actually affects rots in a meaningful way.

Lengs aren't much better. Frostblades isnt quite impacful enough to warrant changing what you were going to do to capitalize on its activation. If they want to keep some variance, lower how often it procs and give it more power. Ive said to add that while active each proc of frostblades refunds adrenaline too. If we get fewer stacks, the spec could even trigger frostblades allowing us to manually take advantage of it. And wallah... they're actually impactful as well.

Infact, these now fulfill different kinds of roles. Ezk is consistent and more about building big hits. Lengs are dynamic rewarding you to for reacting to their procs while giving you more adrenaline to play with.

[molten pagoda]

fsoa would be much more interesting if it had its current spec but weaker as a passive and they brought the recursive critting back as a chance only from the special attack

the special attack being just an attack that is

for whatever appropriate amount of adrenaline

now you're actually doing something for the damage instead of just doing the usual shit and getting extra goodboy points for it

ezk meanwhile should ramp up everything

spec to get initiated and you start from 0 but damage ramps up every however long up to some decently high number

could make subsequent specs jump the % up

[dusk summit]

The issue with recursive crits is how exponentially they scale. It would be a design nightmare. Which is part of why they took it off.

[molten pagoda]

it's very easy to control that

they just didnt want to

50% less chance on second rolling crit, 10% on the next

not to mention it would already be restricted by adrenaline availability for the spec

[iron quest]

So you want the FSOA to have the “one extra attack on crit” be a passive, okay. Then the special attack is a single hit, but on critical it launches the same attack again, recursively if you continue to crit.

Congratulations, Magic is now more boring: you only ever use one spender, your FSOA spec, and the damage is completely RNG. If you don’t get multiple crits then you just spent however much adrenaline on a single hitsplat. If you get six crits in a row, you just did as much damage as a Roar spec plus refunded yourself 48% from Tsunami and you use it again.

Note: I’m assuming the special attack will have no cooldown as it’s now your main attack rather than a buff; giving it a cooldown on top of the randomness would feel even worse.

[dusk summit]

This just seems like no recursion with extra steps. Why not take the average power that would come from those crits and put it in the first? Now theres no need to control it at all. Which is essentially what they did.

[dusky meadow]

it doesn't do it well enough is the point. You're beholden to RNG, stacks are low enough that you can't get the same kind of oomph as EZK, there's not really enough multi hit stuff where you would use it in response to seeing the on-hit passive is up, most of the time you just work it into your rotation some time after 2 stacks when it fits and it's a waste to fully charge, etc. EZK really ate into the "consistent bonuses, then periodic nuke" fantasy that leng potentially could have had

[onyx jay]

I like ezk more for the 12% reduction to damage taken. Vestments are really bad that way, and i feel ezk helps a lot.

[stark galleon]

Smash and pulverise in addition to the spec? I am not saying it's the best it could be, but you using it still in the downtime between the specs makes it more than just a "spec weapon"

[dusky meadow]

those ability modifications are gone in the beta tbf

[dusk summit]

Its losing both of those.

[molten pagoda]

you're right actually, they should scrap the crit thing entirely since there's no way to actually play with it

[stark galleon]

Oh sorry for some reason I thought we were talking about the live game

[obsidian lily]

If Assault stays as a 5.4s cooldown, I wonder of the Annihilation hammer spec would be a decent off zerk option? Youd be able to get quite a few hits in to stack it up a lot faster than you used to be able to I imagine.

Could also work well as a dual wield spec with Adaptive Strike’s two hits, and the 2 tick basic attack

[stark galleon]

With the current iteration of the beta you're already quite adre starved as is, and not much reason to use it over zgs

[dusk summit]

Live is a tad better, but not by a lot.

[storm vapor]

Gotta say I think 2 tick GCD is too fast IMO, unless it's dual wield with offhand attack animations put back in. I'd rather get longer GCDs with more impactful hits and adren gain for other styles.

[iron quest]

Is strength going to get any benefit past 99 (besides 1% am-hej)? I know attack scales accuracy but I heard ability damage only scales to 99.

[supple bay]

Wait, was there Necro changes in the Beta?

[undone flower]

doesnt necro damage scale to 120?

so i assume strength will too

[dusky meadow]

ability damage keeps going up. Not particularly noticeable unless you're using a super low level weapon, but it does go to 120 in terms of the little base stat increases

spells/ammo scaling stuff goes up to 100 since that's the highest level weapon level available

mathematically it sucks but yeah it's still going up from 99->120

[dusk summit]

Disnt necro crit scaling originally go past 99 up to +75% at 120? Could do that. Helps ceit builds stay relevant too.

[patent cipher]

I know the beta is current 75% by accident

That's getting set back to 50% tomorrow

[dusky meadow]

I hope this is fixed by the time the actual update launches, but I think the combined str/att tab doesn't get removed, and can't be removed/fixed in the UI easily since it crashes the client when working with the tab trying to get rid of it

Do crit builds need help staying relevant when they're already still a really strong stat?

Like sure if we wanted to make the styles not all have the same built in crit rates/damages you might say "str helps melee go a little further" after pulling the others down, but we don't really need 75% crit damage

[void lion]

75% is purely a glitch

[dusky meadow]

I know the 75% isn't intended. Necro launched with 75% and got pulled down because it was too much, and then the check to cap it back down to 50% wasn't applied to the others here. What I'm referring to is what the devs had floated in the past, the styles not all needing to have the exact same numbers. Maybe a style would have better crit rate compared to crit damage or vice versa for example.

[iron quest]

I would like to see some ammo bloat being removed, or changed. For example the ROTM bane ammo is all but useless. Even against the targets, the t60 Banite ammunition is still worse than generic t90 gear. Move it to t80 to match other Banite equipment. Bane ammo also takes more time to acquire than it’s worth as you need a rare drop monster head-remove this requirement. Basiliskbane and Wallasalkibane are a joke, and Abyssalbane/Dragonbane bolts/arrows are only maybe niche useful. Then the only two possibly useful types are obsolete by Jas Dragonbane and Demonbane which don’t even need a tuning item.

Fire Arrows. Only used in a single step of a single quest, zero benefit over regular arrows, and for some reason tradable. I can imagine a lot of noobs buying “woo dragon fire arrows” because they think it’ll be better, then finding out that there’s literally no purpose.

Either make Fire Arrows untradeable or give them a benefit and an actual production process. #fletching-retier maybe?

[dusk summit]

After the loss of the adrenaline buffs theyll not nearly be as strong. Not saying they definitely need it. But I'd like grim to be relevant. If nothing changes with crits ful becomes bis basically everywhere. If they did go to 75%, grim would probably be on par or slightly edge it.

[iron quest]

Upgraded archer’s ring giving 4% crit chance and damage is now a 3% damage bonus with no extra adren D:

Change stalker’s ring to give 1-2% adrenaline on every hit or something, imbue gales is already half uptime with 5% per hit.

Channeler’s Ring is nuts even without full Tumeken’s Robes.

Champion’s Ring could probably use a rework IDK I’ve never really used melee.

[dusk summit]

Champions is not great. Lol. Idk exactly what to make it, but its not great. It does nothing but give 30str bonus and 5 prayer bonus if the target isnt bleeding. Even the upgraded only gives 4% crit chance and then another 1.5% crit damage per bleed. But now that crits arent this endless stream of adrenaline, they can probably get more stats to them.

Like champions, maybe it gives 5% crit base, 7% with upgrade, then each crit grants 1.5% crit damage for like 6s with each new crit refreshing and adding to it up to some cap of like 7.5% or whatever. Idk, shooting from the hip here.

Reavers could stay the best flatout crit item at like 8% more while keeping the -5% accuracy.

Archer and channeler could jsut do more of what they already do. Although I sorta hate that archer is locked to bows. I never got why that was other than an attempt to make bows relevant. But that seems like the wrong way.

[stark galleon]

Channeler’s Ring is nuts even without full Tumeken’s Robes
Assuming you're doing a sun rot, reavers camp should be better than channelers tho

[tropic mica]

Hours ago but does not compare because of what it ties into. The one trick pony can die happy on critical strikes.

[dusky meadow]

that's why crit damage and rates shouldn't be too high at the base, because then when they make other effects that interact with them you have to reduce crit damage or have it become too overloaded of a stat like it has been/will still be for magic

if crit doesn't feel good for certain styles you add things that someone can itemize and spec into, compared to blanket buffs to them across the board

[viscid bane]

in other games I find the crit build is usually "this is the best but you have to FULL commit to the crit build or else it falls off" and more generic damage bonuses have better flexibility, added effects, are easier to get, etc.

so it seems to me like maxing out crit damage should be tied to gear/relics/familiar rather than your baseline skill level

[radiant brook]

I hope the beta update tomorrow helps melee, it's at such a disadvantage

[dusky meadow]

and if crit is at a reasonable level at the baseline in terms of damage, and adrenaline isn't tied to it (probably the stupidest thing to tie to it because adrenaline does everything), you can be even more generous with it when there aren't already too many effects tied to it, or you can modify it

like a melee ult shared with berserk where you gain a bunch of crit chance instead, since it'd just be an alternative form of damage distribution and certain interactions

or an actual tanky melee armor set where your crit damage goes down but now the crit chance is a critical guard chance, and you nullify the damage unless the hit is high enough, like the unbreakable ket at Zuk

"dude if I stack crit this ult + armor is like a 20 second cade against mid damage attacks"

But as it stands, magic in particular can't really have anything like that between how much raw crit chance + damage it gets, plus adrenaline, so anything like that would just be a complete balance threat. Last thing we would need is adding another 25% base damage to them

[edgy basalt]

maybe the shield with a drawback for its powerful effect shouldn't have options to make the drawback non-existent

[dusky meadow]

I'd normally agree, but shields suck to the point even the "powerful shield" can't really be viable except as a switch, and if the content is hard enough to warrant that you just get smited

the level of protection spirit shields give is around what you'd expect shields to just do in the first place, but yes if the intention is "be super strong with a cost" it shouldn't be trivial to negate the cost

oh but looking at where I said that it was kind of a joke response to "penance is just for afking"

[full bloom]

It's a shame RuneMetrics isn't available on live atm because it'd be so useful to check what currently works properly and the current DPMs

[iron quest]

I’m going to ask again for the [[Ultimatums]] perk to replace the Invigorate Aura and work on any ultimate ability, but reduce the scaling to 2.5% per perk tier instead of 5%. It currently doesn’t stack with Ring of Vigor or Conservation of Energy either, it needs to work with those passives.

With the removal of Frenzy and Unload, you can’t even pretend Ultimatums is ever useful. It now only affects Omni and Overpower, but doesn’t even stack with the Zuk Cape so it has literally zero effect if you have one.

Even if you don’t have a Zuk Cape, Ultimatums is just a 20% reduction on two abilities that aren’t worth using without the cape—and it doesn’t give any benefit at all if you already have the other two invigorate effects.

[patent terrace]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Ultimatums

[molten pagoda]

because we definitely want ultimatums switching

[dusky meadow]

make the refund charge up with how many attacks you've used with the perk on

[molten pagoda]

did it ever occur to anyone to just leave one of the now three (unless there's more) -10% ult cost saving things behind

[viscid bane]

Scimitars get a crit penalty but higher base damage

Daggers the inverse

[dusky meadow]

hear me out: ult cost savers should stack multiplicatively instead of flat

"my ult's base cost is 60", 10% of that should be -6

why are all these "percents" flat

[viscid bane]

[dusky meadow]

and specs are reduced by 10% of their original cost, same for asylum procs on them

surely we don't need all these "10%s" to mean 10+10+10+40+40= negative 110 cost

[dusky meadow]

literally you could probably get away with just tweaking some accuracy/damage/crit/damage variance numbers on general gear

especially on the autoattack

[viscid bane]

Just make scimitars generally best

Retvrn

[molten pagoda]

speaking of random weapons being disproportionately good (or not)

if strykebow wasnt a shieldbow would it be good?

it says it gains 3 stacks per autoattack

Deep Burn is the special attack of the Strykebow. It costs 25% adrenaline, strikes the opponent for 180-210% ability damage, and stuns and binds the target for 3 seconds. In addition, it deals 12.5% of the damage stored by the Dark Burn passive effect for 5 hits every 1.2s.
I assume "12.5% of the damage stored by dark burn for 5 hits every 1.2s" means 12.5% spread across those 5 hits haha

[viscid bane]

I support deleting shieldbows

Send them to the shadow realm

[molten pagoda]

wonder if we can get the combat guys to do that since it's currently attached to the fletching rework but it's more of a combat update

[dusky meadow]

strykebow would be "good" if it stored all damage taken instead of post-mitigation normal damage

you don't need to rapidly stack it to deal damage, it just periodically unloads when the stacks are ready/you spec, based on how charged it is

and by "good" I mean having at least some appeal. Dark bow without shieldbow status would just be a lower level gloombow

[molten pagoda]

i mean at the bracket btw

[dusky meadow]

yeah it'd literally be fine, it'd be a normal 85 bow with what is effectively a recoil effect

[molten pagoda]

the effects look complex so I assume they're meant to get some of the way there to compensate for being a shieldbow so if it was a normal weapon I was thinking it would compete with t90 (except gloom bow) in high damage scenarios

and dark bow would just be good weapon period

[dusky meadow]

dark bow could be a bit higher level like 75

similar drop level bracket as staff of light

[viscid bane]

It was originally supposed to be a pvp weapon

[molten pagoda]

loool

it's a shame that it stores after damage reduction though

[viscid bane]

You take a lot of damage in pvp so a stacking recoil effect could be used to put someone down, potentially

[dusky meadow]

and they are going to have to make "special" items special again when they start doing things like the fletching update where people can just make weapons and armor at every 10 tier bracket

[dusky meadow]

(it was worse at that than just using Revenge with the dark bow then speccing b2b)

honestly looking at the list of gear there's a lot of viable content that's just outdated or was stillborn that they could do a lookover with and make a bit more attractive over just rushing with crafted gear, if XP rates aren't so high and there aren't endgame degen pathing items

especially with all the new stuff in these betas and shifting the power around, the autoattack, etc

[molten pagoda]

oh yeah how important is the autoattack around 70

do you have your better basics yet

[dusky meadow]

most of the basics are there, you don't need to use it that much, but it still feels better as filler than live basics

it's honestly in an okay spot where you aren't constantly falling back on it, but you can if you want, and if they put some functionalities on it for special weapons it wouldn't be the same issue magic had with losing wave as filler when they linked CD because they can't use Wrack either

[molten pagoda]

I was wondering about dark blow and gloom bow but actually I don't think they'll bother changing the basic attack speed just for them, so unless they remove the double hit thing they might just be weapons with a pretty good basic attack

i was thinking of a scenario where the basic attack is 6 ticks instead of the assumed bugged/overlooked way they work now in the beta

so slow but double damage + 18% adren auto vs normal speed double damage auto that's still +9% adren

actually it's 12 ticks so it would be even more nutty

[dusky meadow]

they'll probably stick to the normal speed double half-hit, it's smoother and lets it work for on-hit effects

[molten pagoda]

oh it isnt double damage just two hitsplats

[dusky meadow]

yeah it's 50-50

so it's the same average damage, just two hits for on-hit purposes

[molten pagoda]

what other random bullcrap was made to interact with autoattacks

[dusky meadow]

dharok's DID

but now it doesn't in live or beta

[viscid bane]

Give me ramping auto damage royal cbow

Give me funny claw swiping ripper claws autoattack with a bunch of tiny hits

Give me 1t GCD darts

[dusky meadow]

I was going to say a time staff, but FSOA exists in its uninspired form, that the AA refunds CDs of abilities so you weave it in

[molten pagoda]

https://runescape.wiki/w/Zamorak_arrows

anyone check these out with the basic attack

[dusky meadow]

lmfao

they're 100% consumed on-hit

with any ability

[molten pagoda]

lol

[dusky meadow]

except grico where it's 1 arrow that splits into multiple on-hits

but every AA, every rapidfire hit, etc, gone

[molten pagoda]

i thought the description implied the special would happen more often but reading again it seems it's just that they disappear regardless of any benefit

[dusky meadow]

these bows will benefit from not being shieldbows too

[molten pagoda]

yeah, ranged will get cool mid-game toys once shieldbows are gone

[dusky meadow]

too bad they're elite clue items

and level 55

I mean nbd for a main who can just pay 1m for it

and actually kind of OP since it'll heal you for quite a bit and all damage modifiers buff the heal

(or you EOF it of course so you can already do that at high levels)

screaming

time to use the blowpipe

[molten pagoda]

magic shield and composite bow same deal, if they're made into normal bows you get 220% damage spec with +40% hit chance which should matter in the midgame

for 35% adrenaline

[dusky meadow]

wtf it just fixed itself

damn it, it was being fired like a bow

oh wait lmao

now it's reverse

spitting arrows

[molten pagoda]

https://runescape.wiki/w/Viridian_Balmung

+45% auto damage to daggs compared to +22.5% for abilities

[dusky meadow]

but you can distinctly see the ammo now

and how many shots it was

[viscid bane]

Has anyone checked to see if chargebows are doing some funny double ammo damage bug with autoattacks

Wouldn't surprise me

[dusky meadow]

don't think they are

it looks like the AA is a "normal ability" generally so far

not a Basic ability either

[viscid bane]

Nice

[dusky meadow]

which sucks for Dharok's

or the barrows effects in general

which are weighted against non-basics in performance and proc rate

[dusky meadow]

the latter

I'm going to just assume at this point that every "autos scaled differently" effect is gone

[molten pagoda]

darklight too?

enhanced would be a 2.5x multiplier if it worked

[dusky meadow]

same bonus damage ratio if I compare basic abilities and the AA on demon dummy in min hit mode

(it scales with how much stronger you are than the demon's base stat so it's consistent between the two despite not being 2.5x exactly)

so yeah another AA difference gone

[molten pagoda]

laaaame

[dusky meadow]

but now your "offhand" attacks are just graphical so they get the bonus damage too

yeah, they should rethink which effects should be the same/different, but I think it'd be fine for AAs to get some of their own values/effects with certain special items. At the very least they should get counted as Basics which usually got better scaling than thresholds/ults

things like DH would actually be more attractive

huh, projectiles all have the actual projectile now, usually the model it'd be on the ground. So rune, broad, bane, guthix, sara, dark, etc arrows all look different mid-air

"I don't feel so good"

[finite comet]

https://streamable.com/txndua

Mkay got a rootling skip

But felt really rng reliant. Maybe someone who knows bolg better could make a better one

If I got like 1% more adren, I feel like I could do a gloom sgb adren pot gloom grico snap gloom zbow

But stuck on gloom sgb adren pot gloom grico piercing gloom snap

I was also playing around with rapid deadshot sgb stall start but rapid fire cd was too long for that damage

[dapper horizon]

you could get 10% more adrenaline by using adrenaline renewals. that would remove the RNG aspect of your rotation no?

[finite comet]

Maybe, I really want to get gloom sgb gloom inside dracolich infusion tho and need instant adren

(also just a note, deadshot animation is really satisfying when you're just struggling with that string)

[finite comet]

Also range numbers are probably fine. Live game mage also has rng rootling skips, so that's an ideal place for the numbers (not consistent)

that it's not consistent I mean

[full bloom]

10am and still no beta update? We pay we say!

[trail cipher]

Chatting with folks this morning I was overzealous with the timeline, update is being packaged at the moment and that takes a little more time then I realized so we are looking more 11:30/12 then 10-11 as I first predicted.

[full bloom]

In truth I did think 10-11 seems quite early for an update delayed to the next day (as that's only really an hour or two extra)

[finite comet]

https://streamable.com/565vte

Got anothher rootling skip, with less relentless procs and DPM on screen this time

Time to measure DPM between betas XD

Also we got our very own update counter :3 yey

[full bloom]

Initial thoughts on magic (based on reading abilities as the news post isn't yet up):

• Runic Charge has had conc buffed and sonic nerfed, both of which I think bring the ability to a good balance where each option should be very viable.
• Smoke tendrils now costs no adrenaline, in my opinion still probably too weak/risky to ever use outside of tsunami/instability which is odd for a level 65 magic ability.
• Magma Tempest was already near unusable in the previous version and instead of giving adrenaline it now costs it?
• Corruption blast also doesn't generate adrenaline and I'm not sure it justifies itself to be so powerful to not do so.

[finite comet]

#1469301607047889020 message