#Combat Styles Improvements - Beta Update

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

analog snow
#

...that's an awful layer of dailyscape

#

just terrible

foggy dew
#

Every layer of dailyscape is terrible

analog snow
#

yeah but the tutors are extra bad

iron quest
#

Chargebow and air staff…

analog snow
#

air staff helps with letting you cast the air spell... but if you are depending on air staves you don't get an upgrade in F2P and have to wait till 30 in members

#

and then you get stuck at 50 until/unless you can get a Limitless Air for a T82 option

#

(2.6ish mil)

#

(and a bunch of research)

iron quest
#

The game was never meant for you to use elemental staves to 99. Plus for a t80+ magic weapon 2.6m is the cheapest option I think

#

Just lower the cost of shop elemental runes back to 5 and increase the stock

oblique kelp
full bloom
oblique kelp
analog snow
#

Elemental Impulse is a Master Clue reward

#

lets you upgrade Mystic Battlestaves into T82

#

augmentable

full bloom
#

Oh it degrades, that'll be why I haven't touched it

analog snow
#

is, unironically, the cheapest way to get T70+ magic wep

#

because Ahrim's are at least 5 mil

#

and Cywir Wand and Orb are 10+ mil

gloomy yarrow
full bloom
#

It still degrades it's just on a different system

analog snow
#

charges feel a lot better to me than any other degrade system

#

just go do somewhat afk skilling for a while and it's fine... or run Gate? are there any other bosses with energy drops?

iron quest
gaunt verge
#

FoG equipment: Hold my 2007 degradation.

digital plover
#

But, hear me out:

Elemental Strike:

  • Unlocked from lvl 1.
  • When selected, you choose Wind, Water, Earth or Fire. Your Magic AA, and some magic abilities, inherit the chosen spell's type.
  • Costs 1 Mind Rune + 2 Elemental Runes of the chosen type.
    (Can be upgraded to Elemental Bolt at level 25, Elemental Blast at level 50, Elemental Wave at level 75, and Elemental Surge at level 100, to increase maximum scaling damage)
    Design note: This spell is always just one icon, and exists in both the normal and ancient book. Ancient Book has different types of elemental spell effects than Basic. Right-clicking the icon allows you to swap it when out of combat.

Entangle

  • Unlocked at level 27.
  • Deals moderate Earth damage to a target.
  • The target becomes stunned for 1.6s (increased by 0.8s at level 50, and 100)
  • Costs 3 Nature runes, 4 Water runes, 2 Earth runes

Fortify

  • Unlocked at level 50.
  • Surrounds yourself with stone, granting you 10 (+ 1 for each 10 magic levels) Defense levels for 30s.
  • While Fortify is up, you may activate Shield abilities without wielding a shield.
  • Costs 5 Body Runes and 10 Earth runes

Magma Tempest (replacing the Magma Tempest ability):

  • Unlocked at level 85, requires a Magma Tempest Tome to learn this spell.
  • Deals heavy Fire Damage on-cast, and resets your Combust ability's cooldown.
  • For 15s, your next Combust ability will ignite the ground in a 2-tile radius round the target, dealing 50% of the burning damage to all other targets within it.
  • Costs 5 Blood Runes, 5 Fire Runes, 5 Earth runes
full bloom
#

Marginally because it puts your weapons and most your armour on the same system, but I find it slightly annoying that helm, gloves, boots aren't on the same system (even if they get no perks) and more importantly, if I want an item that doesn't degrade I mean at all (which is why I have an Armadyl Battlestaff bc afaik it's the highest level magic weapon that gives air runes and doesn't degrade)

analog snow
#

...did I hallucinate seeing someone with energy in their gate of elidinis chest in a video or did that get changed?

#

oh never mind

#

found the energy in the drop table

iron quest
gaunt verge
#

Maybe if they weren't bugged. Some BiS degradables in F2P are actually bugged and I consider using that bug abuse.

analog snow
#

ok so now you want Chronozon completely changed or you want people right clicking a spell to do the quest

#

and also a pile of other changes where magic lore gets involved

#

huh... luminous energy is on a lot of drop tables lol

#

Incandescent isn't on so many but AoD and Telos both have piles and you can pickpocket amlodd

#

yeah, some pvmers just outright don't need to go looking for energy for charges lol

full bloom
dusty grotto
#

I doubt this will get noticed but I’m throwing this in there: ranged and magic are good. I think melee isn’t fully ironed out as many have said before. That being said: please let there be some role of defensive gear for melee. I’d love for dual wielding, 2h to feel different. Shields look amazing and many new players gravitate to them but they serve no purpose with necromancy (bone shield) Maybe it can provide damage reduction or extra life points after it’s been on for a while to prevent it from being a switch? People can then have their dexterity build or bonk build or tank build. Just some ideas! Thanks for the work so far 🙂

wicked cedar
#

i really like what they did with magic. if they incorporated elemental abilities it would have been cool, but the flow of magic in the beta is smooth.

ranged is pretty smooth too and has a cool identity.

melee however needs some serious attention. 14 abilities removed and how often u have to use the basic attack off zerk? plus its shown to be the lowest dps style, and having metoer>nat instinct> zerk> eof spam is required to get 600k dpm when the other styles soar above 700k with ease. It might need somwthing like necro where it empowers the basic attack.

if its gonna be the least damaging style, make it have more healing than necro. but other than the numbers with bis, melee just doesnt flow too well, it could be a lot better like fixing meteors cd.

analog snow
#

having shields be good would be so nice

#

...ooooooh... Adaptive strike has a dual wield and 2h option... but not a single wield option... does it turn off when you have a shield? It could do the old Sever thing of nerfing enemy damage when you have a shield!

wicked cedar
visual swan
#

Since we are getting combat reworked and streamlined. Can we please consider a mechanic of using an EOF and the weapon on a fountain or something that consumes it and just becomes a skill so we don't need to switch as much?

An alternative would be to introduce a basic macro system.

I think if you are trying to attract new players then you really need to have the ability to cut down on switches. It works for oldschool but it feels tedious in RS3.

analog snow
#

I don't think they need to touch defensives tbh

#

using a shield as a weapon should be attack/str anyway

wicked cedar
#

only thing limitless is useful for now is the defensive thresholds

analog snow
#

oh yeah

#

that'd be a good thing

#

moving defensives off threshold and into the new paradigm

#

but outside of that... eh

#

I don't mind defense abilities being "deal with mechanics and give your damage reduction"

wicked cedar
#

why was barge changed from 20.4 base to 30s cd 😭 with melee being required to be melee distance, mobility is key

balmy sail
#

Cause melee needed a nerf (meme)

vocal girder
#

melee needs a massive rework still, its way under powered in this beta

#

they could give melee its bleed bonuses without having to move the boss

#

greater flurry reducing cooldown of zerk + meteor

#

remove pulverize, add smash again

wicked cedar
#

they should use this update to add 12 minute aspects to range and melee. melee could have a vamp aspect for healing

vocal girder
#

barge to give bleed bonus without moving and staying out of combat

#

i think with the auras going away, we could finally use vamp scrimshaws?

balmy sail
#

Unrelated, but it would be cool if jagex had more bridding support like abilities that carry over when you swap a combat style, abilities that reduce the cooldowns of other styles’ abilities, buffs that make you do less dmg but give more adren if you put on a different combat style

dusk summit
# vocal girder they could give melee its bleed bonuses without having to move the boss

I want to see what happens when flurry reduces all melee cds, not just zerk. Too many cds are 60s or 30s and if we could hypothetically zerk every 50.4s with 2 flurry used, even the 30s cds become desynced. Also would need to hit aome specs like ezk and zgs down to something like 45s. But thats just one of many changes melee needs to feel like its designed to work with itself than agaisnt it.

dusk summit
#

Ive done it at a few places where the book isnt actually important and sustain makes the kills WAY more casual. Like melee zammy is an example. I haven't hit the point where having the book or not made a difference but scrim feels way more casual.

split zephyr
#

Hot take, overload duration draining effects are silly and shouldn't be a thing

undone flower
night rover
#

rax mage form is one iirc

dusk summit
#

I think telos can? Its not often, but I know theres at least one other instance, I just can't recall where.

#

Ah thats it.

bitter gate
#

Where can we see what is being changed in the beta? Or have the adjustments based on player feedback not been made yet?

dusk summit
#

Afaik nothing has been posted about changes to the beta yet.

bitter gate
#

I’m a little concerned; the new combat style doesn’t feel quite right yet.

balmy sail
#

I guess they're working on the changes right now

undone flower
balmy sail
#

they're planning to release it on the 22nd, so there's a little bit of time for some changes

#

idk how much they can though

bitter gate
#

Yeah, I believe they still need more time.

viscid bane
#

Next iteration will probably have this reverted or barge will be significantly changed in some other way

full bloom
#

Well the post that told us they're releasing it on the 23rd showed us it's running until the 15th, if it gets an update before then the week of the 16th they're going to go over their takeaways and should be able to make further changes for the release to live

dusk summit
#

I know they're in the timeframe where they probably just want to dial it in, but I hope they just take some big swings over the next 2 weeks to learn a lot.

full bloom
#

It's a narrow window but if the beta gets an update for an additional round of feedback I think they could maybe have a chance

dusk summit
#

Right. Here's hoping. Beta isnt the time to be safe.

dapper horizon
balmy sail
#

ah yeah probably the 23rd

dapper horizon
#

As far as what i could gather changes are being made this week (beta was released friday, nobody works weekends) so they started taking on feedback that they're aware of to work on this week. My guess is we will see those changes on friday for us to play test over the weekend.

dusk summit
#

If thats the cadence they want, with 3 weeks left, id like them to get bold with this round, take next week to get close to what they think will be final, then try to spend the last week tweaking that.

#

It sounds like magic and ranged are close to something solid, but my concern is melee. I barely touched magic, and ranged I haven't at all.

#

Not since the first itteration.

dapper horizon
#

They're aware of the melee "lack luster" i suspect that will be getting the most love with their next rendition of beta patches

storm vapor
#

Has it been reported yet that unarmed combat is pretty much disabled in the beta? you can do some damage by spamming the basic attack, it's tedious to do combat that requires you to be unarmed, like Recruitment Drive

full bloom
#

I've mentioned it yeah

dusk summit
#

Have they said if they want caroming to buff aoe or totally repurpose it?

oblique kelp
#

last I heard (first day of this beta) they were looking for suggestions

tropic mica
#

Berserk should be a condition not an ultimate exclusive to melee.

balmy sail
#

lmao stack zerk and sun

#

would be cool for some bridding support like that though

split zephyr
#

or something close to that

atomic sphinx
dusk summit
dusk summit
dapper horizon
# atomic sphinx Mage is far away from beeing nice

I have bis mage in main game and i can say my dpm got a 300k dpm increase. Now i'm not a speed killer by any means with magic and i didn't 4tick and i love that smoke cloud actually applies it when i ask it too, instead of having to click smoke cloud and my target and wait a second for it to apply. it just felt weird to me and now it feels smooth. I know people say you lose a GCD when using smoke cloud now but does that matter when runic charge, sonic wave gives you a 20% sun cost? do you really lose time and with a damage increase does it really hinder you to lose a GCD? I'd love to understand why the highest level of pvmers don't like it if someone as average as me can get such an increase in performance out of it.

tropic mica
dapper horizon
#

i have a screen shot of me hitting 1.1m dpm with mage in beta, i average around 800k on main game, but i can't get metics on main to test it anymore.

#

and a screen recording i could upload and get hated on it for lol

#

both of which inside a single sun rotation obviously those numbers drop off massively when outside of your buffs

azure mist
#

@vocal delta made a great point regarding melee having access to more movement attack abilities such as bladed dive and barge.

He suggested a new ability leap that works in the same way as these (taking you to npcs to deal damage). https://discord.com/channels/303835144073248770/1468315982417100881

I think making melee more of this movement based style sounds really cool and it could give it an advantage over the other styles that have the advantage of longer range attacks.

I think (and so might he) that meteor strike operating in this way (like bd and barge) would be awesome.

dusk summit
# dapper horizon I have bis mage in main game and i can say my dpm got a 300k dpm increase. Now i...

Id worry less about values and more about flow. If it felt good to do a rotation once you got familiar with new tools that's a good sign. I would HIGHLY suspect the runic sonic won't be as strong on release. Sonic could stay 20% base I think, and runic could raise this to like 50%, maybe 40%. Also the runic conc into tumeken asphyx is absurd. Its basically a juiced ezk spec. Id suspect theyll tone a lot down before release.

I also think they should change tsunami from crits to something else. I suggested granting adren/tick while channeling. That stops the absurdity of unlimited adren once you assemble the crit gear late game and radically improves the adrenaline gained before this point. It doesnt need to be during channels, it was just something magic does a lot of thats on theme. Like on hit with ranged or bonus adren on basic for melee that likes to combo.

proven stump
#

Actually i like this - rather than crits being baked into magics core identity, it can be just items (fsoa) that care about it, and crit is a general "all styles" upgrade

dusk summit
#

Right. Magic still wants the crit items because fsoa go brrrr, but its not making it so you just camp 100% adrenaline the whole time with end game gear. But more importantly, it makes it so before end game gear you can actually meaningfully benefit from tsunami. Like ranged and melee with with their respective juicers.

proven stump
#

It also gives room for future items to be juiced in different directions and not miss out on part of tsunami

#

Eg sanctum duals giving instant dots make you want to invest more into dot stuff and less into crit since they cant crit, but tsunami makes you want crit

iron quest
proven stump
#

Yea, but baking one playstyle into a lvl 90 buff seems too restrictive. Maybe we'll get a second version for the secondary style that shares a cd, unlockable with codex or smth

digital plover
#

But seriously though. I don't get why Jagex is looking so badly for a new "style unique" angle for Magic when Magic literally already has a style-unique aspect on combat: Spellbooks. Instantaneous spells, auto-cast spells, aspect spells.

#

How many of these spells would you wager the average user ends up actually ever using?

image.png
split zephyr
#

probably over half of em

#

lota teleports and skilling spells

#

niche / low usage spells aren't a bad thing by itself

#

but tiered offensive spells could be combined with a right click 'intensity' setting

#

or be combined into a generic version, with active element being something you select on the basic attack

#

quite a few approached to 'clean it up' so to say.
all with some trade-off on clarity or some such though

digital plover
#

OVER HALF???

#

Half of these spells are literally rudimentary tiered or completely depricated or trivialized.

#

Even an ironman that needs some spells of those to obtain certain items/upgrades would not get anywhere close.

split zephyr
#

basically 30% of all those spells are teleports, with some being tele-others

#

all the standard book skilling spells are used for pretty common training methods, outside of perhaps the charge orbs spells

digital plover
#

Yes I'm not counting teleports, dw.

split zephyr
#

half the skilling spells on lunar are also used for a variety of things

#

and ancients basically has nothing thats bad

#

outside of the teleports being less commonly used

balmy sail
#

there's probably some use for each one of those spells, but overall, the spellbooks could do with a bit of cleaning up

#

whether it's compressing the different tiers of spells or getting rid of ones like the cure poison ones in lunar spells

digital plover
#

Like, this has been the experience of me and my entire guild so far.

image.png
#

Red = Close to never, maybe on a blue monday.
Orange = Rarely, more often for ironman than for anyone else.
Yellow = Regularly, depends on your progress or activity
Green = Can't live without.

#

I was surprised to see why everyone just slammed air spells for climbing their account progress, until I saw why; Air spells are free with just an air staff. No other combat spell can be trained for free.

undone flower
balmy sail
#

lmao

digital plover
#

We're not living in 2005 anymore penguin

#

Wake up, it's 2026

undone flower
iron quest
#

I could see the Charge Element Orb spells moved to 30 Magic along with their Crafting requirements, and XP equalized between the 4 staves.

undone flower
#

also intercept is good for amascut scarabs

#

and ruby aurora is just free damage smh

digital plover
#

Who picks ruby aurora over exsanguate?

balmy sail
#

you used to 4taa rubby aurora

#

but I guess not anymore

digital plover
#

Hell, I'll do you one even better

#

4taa is gone in beta

undone flower
digital plover
#

I suppose, only up to 3%.

undone flower
#

no downside for just using it for 1 auto at the beginning

digital plover
#

Doesn't the spell say it's a "chance" to? Not guaranteed?

undone flower
undone flower
digital plover
#

I'm not sure. Being late on your Exsanguate buildup sucks.

balmy sail
#

yeah if you 4taa ruby aurora, there's a chance that it doesn't give stacks to your allies

undone flower
balmy sail
#

anyways, it's just one of those things that spice up the rhythm in endgame pvm, or used to

undone flower
#

necro can just start on wand

#

then swap back after 1 aa

balmy sail
#

idk I just don't like the idea that more and more actions in endgame pvm is going to be every 3ticks or 1.8s

#

playing the rhythm game with more variety in endgame pvm in rs3 is just so much more fun

digital plover
#

Ruby Aurora (Instantaneous spell)

  • Place down a prism that lasts for 30s.
  • Every time you perform the Wild Magic ability, Ruby Aurora gains a stack, up to 3 times.
  • Increases all damage dealt by players within a 5-tile radius by 1% for each stack.
  • Costs 5 Fire Runes + 2 Soul Runes to cast.
iron quest
undone flower
digital plover
#

Or hell, if it really wants to go the Support route, make it stack off of any player using Wild Magic instead 😛

#

(so long they are within range)

balmy sail
digital plover
#

Crumble Undead (instantaneous)

  • Marks a creature with expedited decay for 60s
  • A marked creature takes 30% additional Magic damage if it's an Undead.
  • Costs 5 Earth, 5 Air, and 2 Time runes to cast.
iron quest
#

I really don’t like the “it’s just another enfeeble” on living targets. Crumble Undead should do nothing special against non-undead.

digital plover
#

Fair enough

cursive mural
undone flower
balmy sail
#

that's why stuff like 4taa, lossless smoke cloud, bridding, gear swaps make the game a lot more fun
it's cause they interfere with and diversify the endgame rhythm game so it's not just 1 key every 1.8s

cursive mural
#

or fragment, whatever it's called

undone flower
cursive mural
#

telegrab was the other one in that picture that'd be green for me, I always kept them on hand while questing because you never know when shit would be just out of reach

forest grove
#

you know, thinking about it, given how ive seen a lot of people say that the dismember combo feels terrible to use, esp needing to move the second hit and the third hit giving nothing...

What if the third dismember use procs "movement" for the purpose of bleed? Would that aleviate some of the issues?

digital plover
#

Green = you use it unconditionally, very often, as part of your main average routine.

analog snow
#

meanwhile I'm sitting here like... telegrab has been absolutely critical in the past and I'm kinda just waiting for Jagex to find somewhere to make it a big deal again

digital plover
#

Last time it was a big deal was in the combat dungeons for some pages.

cursive mural
#

and a few quests as well

#

vampires, desert, Mahjarrat all need it

#

I keep the runes for a grab on hand while questing because I like to go in without guides as much as possible

#

only thing is I have QC now so I guess post-qc it isn't green but I still keep them for mini quests just in case

#

it's also just fun being able to yoink dropped items seemingly out of nowhere

ancient merlin
#

As someone who plays 10+ hours a week, reading through this update plan scares me... THIS IS WAY OVER THE TOP and not in a good way.... making this many changes to the game all at once and I'm done I will cancel my premier membership and I will never spend my money on this game again

balmy sail
#

it's definitely a pretty big change all at once

#

idk though, I do see some potential if there's enough polishing

#

It's just that Jagex seems like they wanna redesign the whole combat system when it has a lot of great parts already

split zephyr
#

twas a bit silly to have 10+ basic / threshold stuns that were basically duplicates

#

and lasted too short to actually synergize with stun punishing abilities

#

on top of a large majority of relevant combat npcs being stun immune

#

outside of innate mechanics

balmy sail
#

ability bloat is for sure one of the things that needed to change

analog snow
#

there's a lot of parts of the game that just do kinda need big changes to not be hot messes of layers of contradictory design

split zephyr
#

what if berserk altered some abilities into an enhanced version

analog snow
#

...that's already what it does and now you are just adding complexity for complexity

split zephyr
#

yea but i mean more like while berserk is active, assault becomes decimate

#

that kinda stuff

balmy sail
#

could be a cool idea

split zephyr
#

could also tie into maintaining some unlocks in strength

#

by having those variants from there

#

or having it transform flurry into frenzy

#

would also allow for equipment to change what berserk enhances or add / remove it

#

e.g. a berserker helmet would alter the stun into a headbut

#

or wearing battle axes while berserk is active replaces slice with havoc

#

could also remove the duration on berserk and have it last untill you run out of adrenaline

dusk summit
viscid cedar
#

Melee feels almost worst in the beta than in live

#

I could have just a bias cause it feels slightly different

warped sleet
#

Is there a way to add equipment and levels?

dusk summit
viscid cedar
#

Feels like theres moments in which you’re like “okay uhhh i guess ill try and get my adrenaline back with basics.”

#

But it doesnt feel like its timing right or have enough adrenaline for stuff

#

I cant tell

dusk summit
#

Post zerk is fuckin brutal. Feels like you fall off a cliff. Even more than live somehow.

viscid cedar
#

EXACTLY

#

Thats it!

#

I do like that berserk resets greater fury

#

I do like meteor strike its neat in a vacuum

dusk summit
#

But even getting into zerk theres less adrenaline during than live, but thats a numbers issue. Bith can be remedied. If adaptive grants more adrenaline than now and the meteor buff is stronger. Its more that things are clunky to get rolling or fight one another.

viscid cedar
#

I think they also need to adjust the cooldowns on the abilities too on top of that

#

Also as someone who mains melee I hate bleeds man, it feels like a bandaid for the combat style

dusk summit
#

I think its ok to have them even if they dont appear in a lot of rotations.

#

But I did a whole novel write up on reddit about what I thought.

viscid cedar
#

I would be too if they didn’t say they’ed be getting rid of useless abilities

#

Got a link?

dusk summit
viscid cedar
#

Appreciate it

dusk summit
#

No problem. Buckle in. I get wordy and I dumped a lot. Lol.

shy current
#

Question on power scaling for 120 Strength and Attack. When the update goes live, will 99 Strength/Attack be the same damage as it is now (assuming no aura active)? Or will the scaling be reconfigured in some way? Haven't seen this written anywhere, and I'm curious if we'll be doing less damage on release if, say, we use Supreme Invigorate now, which doesn't actually modify damage output.

analog snow
#

As I understand it, the only aura's leaving on the new 120's launching are the accuracy auras

#

and then all the combat styles will just work like Necro

#

getting more accuracy past 99 and being even on accuracy with having the accuracy auras at 120

#

the full aura removal is being saved for later

#

and I wouldn't exactly be shocked if it winds up working much like the accuracy auras leaving

#

with auras leaving in chunks as their effects get added to level progression or other unlock sources

spare forge
analog snow
#

well, like... Resourceful would very much not be op as an add to woodcutting/mining/arch

#

or like all the "now you have high success chance" auras are literally just the accuracy auras for skilling

#

or like the Surefooted Aura is just the Agility Cape

#

but also you could get things like, say, Super Summer Pie

#

so you make a Summer Pie and add something more and now the agi boost includes no failing for X time

#

and maybe the something more is simple, Primal Extract, maybe the something more is a drop from a new agility activity

spare forge
analog snow
#

Vamp is like... there's already two non aura sources of lifesteal before we go to weapons(hi, every style has a MW weapon with lifesteal attached)

#

also the Passive Saradomin Sword

#

so it shouldn't exactly be all that hard to go "Vamp Scrim/Blood Essence are now buffed)

#

Penance technically also has Passive Sara Sword, kind of the Dung Necks, kind of Penance Powder

#

I don't think it'd be super unreasonable to put it on an amulet/the Holy Wrench(potentially as a new upgrade from a new quest)

#

(also there's a blood essence for that too... just need to buff it so it's actually worth using)

#

most of the combat ones are like... could be a new invention perk, could be new items, some of them could just be quest unlocked passives

winged valve
#

issues with zammy now . rico from range will now murder b and force you to die and same thing with dragans breath with mage with start it is mad annoying bascially force to just use basic and some other ablit that is it

tropic mica
brave flicker
#

If you're launching through steam with proton, set your launch options to --configURI rs-launch://www.runescape.com/jav_config_beta.ws

proven stump
viscid bane
#

would be nice to just have a dropdown selector in the Jagex Launcher to pick the beta, if there's one running

#

like surely this would be an ideal use case for making their own launcher

lunar jewel
lunar jewel
lunar jewel
# proven stump Yea, but baking one playstyle into a lvl 90 buff seems too restrictive. Maybe we...

it is definitely restrictive. to think otherwise, would be extremely puzzling.

if the objective is to make the style's identity of a certain type, why is it being locked after 92 levels into the game, instead of it being done so at the base/start of the game?

is that even an identity of the style anymore?

crit style should therefore, like bleeds style, be side-grades throughout each style, and not restricted solely for one.

equipped weapons or ammo should be the way to define how the style plays out.

but each style should have their own playstyle.

e.g. necro has souls and necrosis that set the baseline mechanics of its playstyle. then, based on gear, you work around those 2 mechanics of the style, which we get from omniguard and devourer's guard.

atomic sphinx
#

Since Everything triggers gcd

lunar jewel
# atomic sphinx How u mean this?

ability gcd is still 3t
but a dual-wield causes gcd to be 1.2t until you use an ability
you can try it on beta if you haven't already
essentially, its a major upgrade/change to the "sub-styles" of dual wielding and 2h to set them apart

finite comet
#

I usually switch to dual wield when there's nothing important to cast at 94 or above adrenaline. Feels pretty cool

#

When getting ready for an ultimate

#

It's funny though since none of the styles have a dual wield meta right now

lunar jewel
finite comet
#

It's just that there's probably nobody giving feedback on the dual wield autos since none uses dual wield :p people who can't afford fsoa

#

maybe people who can't afford fsoa*

real notch
#

dual wield for magic sucks right now. cant build stacks for dots at all

sudden sluice
#

Anybody in here good with linux/the steam client? Im trying to get into the beta, but I cant find a way to make it work :/

proven stump
sudden sluice
#

Man if that works I will be so fucking happy 😂 Ive been banging my head against this wall for like 4 days now

proven stump
#

linux isnt really supported by jagex im afraid

sudden sluice
#

Im all too aware after this fiasco :kekw:

#

Wow it didnt complete the emoji Ive been betrayed

proven stump
#

its kinda funny that out of all the games i play, indie or otherwise, runescape causes me the biggest issues

sudden sluice
#

Is it known why they arent willing to support linux?

full bloom
#

A couple days ago I gave my feedback on each magic ability's changes or where I thought it sits and wanted to go over a couple I think are in particular need of change:

  • Runic Charge needs a buff to the non-sonic wave options to justify the GCD without any adrenaline or damage, perhaps most noticable with concentrated blast only improving the crit chance of the first hit on multi-hit abilities which are the majority of what magic has.
  • Smoke Tendrils previously you only wanted to use under tsunami + instability for the crit benefits, it's had the damage dealt decreased and self damage increased. For a full use I'm getting around 15k damage on a 4.8 second channel with asphyxiate being about 13k for the same duration but without dealing a ton of damage to yourself, on a shorter cool down, and available at a lower level. Smoke Tendrils as is is a level 65 ability which no one in their right mind will use until level 90+ for tsunami (90) and instability (95). It was already a noob trap before, it's worse now.
  • Magma Tempest doesn't justify itself not gaining adrenaline and I'm honestly unsure why it can't crit (as FSoA spec doesn't trigger from itself anymore and I believe only the primary target triggers instability).
sudden sluice
#

What region is the beta world based in?

full bloom
#

Germany apparently

sudden sluice
#

🤣 That makes sense. I think I have a ping of about 350 atm

sudden sluice
#

So what kind of rotations have people figured out for ranged? Im a long time melee camper, but this on hit stuff looks pretty neat

full bloom
#

I'm a mage mostly which is why that's where my feedback has focused, but this is the ranged revo++ bar I tried out which seemed okay

image.png
patent cipher
#

Does rapid fire extend gale in that configuration?

sudden sluice
#

If deadshot is not a channel, then it should?

sick gale
#

Anyone able to access the beta via Steam on Windows? I'm 2FA/backup code locked out of my Jagex account so can only play through Steam 🙁

sudden sluice
full bloom
#

With the ranged Zuk cape, yes. Without it deadshot takes 100% adrenaline so you don't have the 20% for rapid fire after.

sudden sluice
#

Oh right, I just assumed any time someone is using the zuk ults that they have the zuk capes because otherwise its a bit questionable :p

patent cipher
#

You'd be surprised with imbue shadows working as it does

sudden sluice
#

Which is how, exactly? I only just figured out how to get the beta working today, thanks to the linked message above, so I am horridly behind on the finer details, just seen a few overviews on youtube

patent cipher
#

Ranged hitsplats grant 5% adren (not counting bleeds)
so rapid fire grants more adren than it uses

Although there seems to be some interactions with hydrix bolts that breaks it?

full bloom
#

Oh turns out with imbue shadows you don't need Zuk cape and it still works

sudden sluice
#

Oh damn

full bloom
#

Not sure why but if you use imbue shadows first, after Deadshot you have 35% adren but only 10% if you don't. I guess deadshots hits are so rapid that you get the 25% from 5 hits straight away?

sudden sluice
#

It probably gives you adren based on when the ability calculates the damage, and deadshot might do that all in one go?

patent cipher
#

Yeah what you get a 25% adren return from deadshot + shadows, saving 20% from coe + vigour so it only costs 40%, so in total you're looking 40%-25% = 15% adren deadshot cost in total.

full bloom
#

If you have imbue shadows and zuk cape you come out of rapid fire with 95% adrenaline again

patent cipher
#

Hydrix bolts is working on rapid fire

#

No longer just basic abilities

image.png
#

Rather, it works on everything that isn't an ultimate ability

full bloom
#

Bug or intentional buff? 🤔

patent cipher
#

That's up to Jagex, personally I'm in the buff bolts camp, but it's probably a bug because I think they wanna rebalance items at a later point?

full bloom
#

Exsanguinate was given a different effect (which is actively bad if you're going crit playstyle) so it's not impossible they looked at bolts

patent cipher
#

True, looking more at bolt effects:
Opals are fine
Sapphire cool for infinite-ish prayer regen but likely impractical (also hard to tell when the effect triggers without watching prayer points)
Jades are awful, rng stun is just pointless.
Pearl is cool, but we don't make use of weaknesses so they've fallen off.
Emerald are fun for a poison build (but the sound effects are spammy)
Red Topaz, I could see some niche use for, maybe, bit too pvp focused to be truly useful.
Ruby bolts adding 4k dmg to a hit, do these still have the internal cooldown?

I don't think any of these thus far should have an internal cooldown, it's already feeling like a loss to use any of these against a bow with ful arrows the proc chance on these could all be bumped up to 10% base and I'd still be leaning towards ful arrows for the consistency.
(but ful arrows are a problem anyway because of how consistent they are)

Diamond bolts, just a worse bsa+ful. This could trigger on every single hit and it would be equal to ful.
What's really cool is seeing the diamond appear above the target on a proc. I like that, more gem procs should do that I think.

#

At minimum bolts should be looking at 15% dmg per hit if they're gonna focus on dmg, if they're not making ful look like a bad pick, they're not worth using imo.

If they're focused on utility, stuns are worthless
Prayer points/hp are nice

It's a shame Pearl isn't more useful, but also the dmg stinks

cursive mural
#

I haven't tested it yet but gales seems like it might be nice for the crystal shielded enemies/mobs in zuk waves where you have to try and hit above a certain damage threshold

digital plover
#

Hope the spaghetti code isn't gonna act up with two statuses having the exact same name.

patent cipher
#

Don't worry the necros are safe from adren gain
||there's a space on the necro version||

image.png
digital plover
#

@zealous raptor hey Sponge, genuine feedback for this (I've talked about it before last night), but Magic still has way too many abilities, of which most of them overlap each other (3 DOT's, 4 chasers, 2 channellers, etc).

Rather than pursuing unique abilities for each of their own, why not invest into the Spellbook system? Adressing the spellbooks, by adding new Instantaneous Spells (as pseudo abilities, like Necromancy has Conjures/Commands), reworking how AA spells scale and progress, adding more style-defining AA spells (like the God AA spells, weapon-bound AA spells), changing how Skilling Spells work, and further exploring the Aspect spells.

In addition, many people have already expressed frustration about why so many spells are split between different books, and how BP/SBS is a crutch extra step for something that's clearly not working well. Why not redefine how a "known spells" list goes v.s. "usable spells"? How about giving players the ability to assemble their own spellbook using spells they can know, a bit like Dungeons & Dragons's system?

patent cipher
#

Something to think on but shifting everything over to attack kinda ruins the viability of str pures.

image.png
severe helm
#

I think strength as a whole skill got shafted with this update

#

A better idea than just overloading attack with weapons and abilities would be attack having weapons and the critical strike damage boost. The skill identity would be weapon upgrades and improving your critical strike damage. The Strength skill identity would be increasing your power through learning new abilities and increasing base damage overall. Keep the two obsidian strength weapons tied to the skill just for some uniqueness and nostalgia.
This allows for both skills to have a core identity and not make Strength feel like the combat version of the firemaking skill.

#

And ofcourse this change would also save a very niche community intertwined with runescape history.

dapper horizon
full bloom
#

I think if they were to do some sort of mixed/omni spellbook it def shouldn't be locked behind 120 magic, probably quest locked since the ancient and lunar spellbooks were and maybe relatively high magic but def not 120 or the cape perk

digital plover
#

I'd rather have a system where you get a personal spellbook that you can fill with 3 + (Magic Level / 10) spells, to a max of 15, and that you need to visit Wizard Towers or Altars to re-assemble the spellbook.

Magic 99 cape perk would be that you can assemble your spellbook at any bank
Magic 120 cape perk would be that you get a 16th spellbook slot.

split zephyr
#

Customizable spellbook with x spell slots would be a decent perk for constructing and enchanting a tome stand at the wizards' guild

digital plover
#

Borrowed Power would get reworked then that you can wildcard that "slot" to any spell you want from any one book on demand for 1 minute.
Spellbook Swap would then be a spell that allows you to swap any other spell in your book of the same spellbook origin (Standard/Ancient/Lunar).

#

Construction could certainly expand on that further.

#

Like, creating a Runic Orb that allows you to imbue it with an Auto-Attack Spell, and while that orb remains, that Auto-Attack Spell is always available to you even if it isn't in your book.

split zephyr
#

That's just a dual wield polypore staff

digital plover
#

No I mean like; basic Air / Water / Earth / Fire / Ice / Smoke / Blood / Shadow spells

#

The Runic Orb stand then just gives you that slot for free only for one of those 8

split zephyr
digital plover
#

I don't mean the weapon........

split zephyr
#

With smaller spell selection

digital plover
#

I mean a STAND that you build in your POH

patent cipher
split zephyr
#

Couldn't resist that one

#

Anyway, sounds like you want the old borrowed power from livid farm

#

That allowed you to use a spell at all times, by charging an amulet

patent cipher
#

Spellbooks to me, seem like one of those things where you can sand down the rough edges until nothing about it feels special.

#

If you just merge it all into one, you just kinda remove all the friction that made working around spellbooks engaging to begin with.

#

Whilst Jagex has sanded down a lot of these rough edges, they've never made the full commitment to breaking spellbooks entirely.

I'd go the other direction, start by adding a cooldown to spellbook swap, so that the barrier between spellbooks feel more solid, and breaking down that barrier feels less of a trivial convenience.

split zephyr
#

Tbh i'd love it if magic abilities were partially unique per book

#

E.g. tendrils only with ancients

patent cipher
#

That would be the next step once spellbooks themselves are more identity defining.
Doing abilities exclusive to spellbooks.
It would be interesting in fact to see lunar spells introduce skilling abilities.

full bloom
#

Book locked abilities sounds kinda bad because it complicates abilities so much more

iron quest
full bloom
#

While also tangling abilities and spells awkwardly

iron quest
#

The other three styles can bring any of the books, whether they want to bring standards for manual casting vulnerability, lunar for disruption, or ancients for Barricade+Intercept in teams. On the other hand, mages are forced to use ancients to do any reasonable damage. They then miss out on the utilities split across the other books without bringing extra runes and APM for Swap.

#

It’s really annoying that the Magic style runs into the most friction with spellbooks.

azure mist
#

How about making blood tendrils the melee healing ability? It has the name blood in it which can easily be tied to healing. It can be used with both dw and 2hs. Also, with both mage and ranged keeping their tendies it seems weird that melee doesn't. Just a thought

vocal girder
#

zerk should last longer than living death

azure mist
#

Also melee has always had great aoe with 2handers. I would just make all 2 handers have 2 tile range. 2hs have been traditional aoe weapons. I would make melee dw more burst damage focused

vocal girder
#

tbh melee should have a 6 tile range with a halberd

split zephyr
vocal girder
#

its a halberd

split zephyr
#

You can throw a halberd as a javelin

vocal girder
#

fine then

#

8 tile range?

dapper horizon
#

bin every style and just add guns with some of yalls logic

azure mist
azure mist
#

I'm curious if there has been any talk about the 120 skillcape perks for mage, ranged, attack, str, hp, prayer, and sum

azure mist
# vocal girder zerk should last longer than living death

idk about lasting longer than living death. But it does seem weird that zerk only lasts 20 seconds while all the other self ultimate buffs like it for the other styles last 30 seconds. This isn't the counthing that g ss and ss dw last 37 seconds too. This is also with melee also taking 50% more damage.

It just seems weird that yeah zerk gives u double damage, but it also lasts 10 seconds less, you take 50% more damage, and you gotta go out of your way (do greater flurry) to reduce the cooldown. Like damn, melee can't get a break here

#

How about this interesting take. Make zerk last 30 seconds or at least 26.4 secs (what it lasts with vestments). Remove the 50% more damage.

Further, dw hits/abilities do double damage.

2h hits/abilities do 50% more damage, but! all 2h hits/abilities gain an extra tile reach during berserk.

vocal girder
#

melee suffers the most in this beta tbh

patent cipher
#

Melee aoe kinda blows

#

I'm trying to wait for 7 enemies to get triggered by my aggression pot

#

So I can try and farm cane resets

vocal girder
#

love the changes to mage, melee not so much tbh, it blows

patent cipher
#

I accidentally brought abyssal armour spikes and the enemies died to armour spikes before my agression pot would agrro enough enemies.

split zephyr
patent cipher
#

Taunting should force melee range

split zephyr
#

It does for melee enemies

patent cipher
#

help there's 7 enemies but they're just out of cane range

image.png
vocal girder
#

melee needs to be buffed, this beta

split zephyr
#

Could give it passive stances

#

That boost something

azure mist
#

Also please make either str or attack apply to all other combat styles too and free melee from being the only style that has to train another skill.

Str could give every style it's crit bonuses/ be another req for strong weps/abilities.

Attack could just be how every style measures its accuracy just like how defence measures how we avoid every style. Just please do something

patent cipher
#

He just walked off! My aggression pot is useless?!

image.png
azure mist
#

I had the idea of the Zaros gs having an aggro like effect, attracting mobs. It makes sense since it's called black hole after all

patent cipher
#

There's only 6 mobs here...

image.png
#

I think 7 is too much for a reset, and melee needs a way to pull farcaster mobs into melee range

vocal girder
#

wow, for example has healers that heal the tanks and dpsers.. imagine meleeing, exposing yourself more to mobs, shorter tile ranges, need to dps and focus on ss flicks and food spam

patent cipher
#

Probably reset on 5?

vocal girder
#

also hurrican reset has no applications in boss fights whatsoever

#

magic has self buffs, range too

#

melee needs one

split zephyr
#

Like berserk?

azure mist
#

hurricane should be a dw ability too. Tbh, i think it makes more sense for that to heal you than flurry. Blood tendies makes most sense tho

vocal girder
#

im talking outside of zerk, mage has the wrack, and sonic wave, range has the 2 new self buffs

#

you could use on deaths swiftness

#

melee has nada but meteor strike

split zephyr
vocal girder
#

which is out of sync with zerk once u gflurry

azure mist
patent cipher
#

A semi-success for hurricane got 1 reset on entry, but on the mob respawn there wasn't enough mobs nearby

image.png
dusk summit
#

I get the attempt and wanting to try weapon speed out with the basic, im glad they did, but I think the game would make much more sense and be more intuitive if they scrapped speed all together and just put the ability damage on the weapons. No speed at all.

split zephyr
#

If ya don't swap between different attackspeed weapons, it's smooth either way though

patent cipher
dusk summit
#

Then weapons have 2 stats, damage and accuracy. Which id like them to play a bit more with disparity in these. Like ezk has t90 acc and t100 damage and lengs have t90 damage and t100 acc. Not necessarily implement that, but they would gain some different use cases depending on the defense of the boss.

split zephyr
#

We already have gear like that

dusk summit
#

Or 2h has +5t damage but lower acc and scim is the opposite.

vocal girder
#

unless. they buffed reaver again and thatd solve the sustain problem with melee?

dusk summit
#

Like the gwd2 stuff is this way. Lani spear.

split zephyr
#

Sure, but that doesn't have to come with the removal of attackspeed

dusk summit
#

Sure, but I dont think the potential 2tick gcd is worth having an entire weapon Stat. If a new player sees speed, whats their intuition? Id think i could use more stuff, but thats really not the case. It affects 1 ability.

split zephyr
#

Perhaps heavy weaponry could simply add a 1-3 tick channel to attacks that are don't have em normally

#

As a tradeoff for harder hits

#

Keeps global cooldown at 1.2

#

And allows moving to interrupt

#

Melee can still swing while stepping to the side

dusk summit
#

Or if they insist on keeping speed, make it clear on the weapon:
"Basic attack cd: 1.2/1.8"

#

But you could get fancier with types like that too.

split zephyr
#

Weapons on live have attack rate tooltips for exactly that

dusk summit
#

Live in beta or main game?

#

If they have this in the beta that makes it clear its only the basic attack ability. Then sure, give it a go since its done. But I still think a 1.8gcd without weapon speed and thrn ability damage and accuracy is more clear to players whats going on.

#

I know it has its uses, but these seem so niche its not worth the confusion.

split zephyr
#

Main game has attack rate.
Haven't had a chance to check beta tooltips yet

dusk summit
dusk summit
split zephyr
#

Attack rate is in seconds on the tooltips

split zephyr
dusk summit
#

That could work too I guess. Saves a potential action bar if they did.

split zephyr
#

If tracked with a (de)buff, you could even tie mechanics to using them interchangably

#

And reward swapping

dusk summit
#

Idk. Theres so much i want them to try, but this beta isnt long enough. As much as I want new toys to play with, id really rather this beta be another month. They probably have other work to move onto though.

split zephyr
#

I mean, this one is mainly for early / mid game changes.
There's more planned i believe

dusk summit
#

Like if they coupled flurry and cane this way, they could lean into something on each that buffed the other. Thats fun. Flurry could say "your next hurricane used in Xs does...." and visa versa.

split zephyr
dusk summit
#

I figure theres more planned. Hopefully a brush up/minor rework of t95s, specs, then obviously Defense and constitution.

#

I feel like all t95s beside ezk are really close to being or are fun and interactive, with ezk requiring a bit more to feel that way.

split zephyr
#

Perhaps melee could have a counter / parry basic that's melee exclusive

#

Channel for 1.8 seconds, reducing damage, if hit, hit harder back

#

Or restore some of damage taken in that duration

#

Given how much people keep asking for sustain

#

Like fish isn't real

#

Or some vampyre flavored knives that heal you for a % of your bleed damage

iron quest
#

One thing that hasn’t been discussed much is the parallel balancing issues of FSOA and Tumeken’s Shadow (OSRS). Both are (relatively) weak on their own without (crit/magic damage%) on your other gear, but then they scale way harder than any other weapon once you do get said external boosting gear. Every other t95 we have works fine on its own, extra gear being a bonus, but FSOA requires external gear to work and at the same time limits how strong it can be for balancing.

split zephyr
#

Require is a bit much imo.
It's more so that people use the best in slot as baseline

#

Instead of the actual basic gear

dusk summit
#

If they changed tsunami to not be off crits, they can safely chsnge the crit damage passive on fsoa to crit chance which helps a ton with all that.

split zephyr
#

It's a multiplier on a multiplicative scalar

iron quest
#

Subjugation + t95 wands beats subjugation + FSOA despite the 10x price tag is what I mean.

dusk summit
#

But parry is like an offensive reso in essence?

split zephyr
#

Style locked, seperate from the generic defensive

#

And less effective than a proper defensive

#

Would be the go to, imo

iron quest
#

Sooo…reflect+reprisal but only melee and only one hit?

split zephyr
#

Sure

#

Spitballing concepts, that sounds close enough

#

Require a 2h weapon, or offhand weapon

#

Defender lets ya use it, while allowing defensives

#

Without bone shield

dusk summit
#

Oh, fsoa should feel better as well with them juicing crit chance out of the base kit more with runic and gconc.

#

In the earlier late game at least.

void lion
#

(tomorrow being 2/5)

white thunder
#

what have been people thoughts so far on adren buffs aside from magic being moved to a set adren gain, i'm yet to have the oppertunity to try it out. In my head though it seems like its gonna remove most / all variance and improvisation in rotations? can anyone let me know how it feels and there thoughts don't wanna just assume stuff

vocal girder
#

The wrack ability is amazing,

iron quest
#

It’s always confused me why the Ranged Stun was Binding Shot. It has the same useless 1.2s stun as the others, but it also applies a 9.6s bind. Ranged isn’t supposed to be used against melee monsters, wouldn’t it make for sense for Magic’s stun to apply a bind instead? Especially with Magic’s historical identity of Entangle/Ice Barrage.

obsidian lily
#

I made a big post over on Reddit, but the tldr is: the stated melee identity does not make sense with how the core kit functions given just how powerful Assault is as a channeled ability.

As such, I think the actual identity of melee is and should be combination attacks and on next ability (not hit) effects. This includes buffs and functionality improvements to barge, fury/gfury, chaos roar, a new channeled Quake for 2h, dismember 2, and meteor strike’s adrenaline gain.

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/s/z96pqlXi7q

Reddit
From the runescape community on Reddit

Explore this post and more from the runescape community

vocal girder
#

so the melee improvements updates tomorrow?

full bloom
#

Would there be room to bring back wrack or some new ability that is almost the same as an auto-attack, but can be augmented by spells? Like instead of exsanguinate modifying runic charge (an ability you'd want to use often anyway) it'd modify this ability and other abilities could do the same with it being little different to an auto if you're using a spell that doesn't change it?

polar marsh
#

A beta update is tomorrow

oblique kelp
split zephyr
#

Other spells can simply modify that in the same way

#

Like how crumble undead basically adds undead-bane

full bloom
#

I guess ancients do modify the auto-attack in a sense, just thinking of a better alternative for exsanguinate

split zephyr
#

Sanguine charge is decent imo

full bloom
#

It's shit if you aren't using combust

split zephyr
#

Well it makes sense from a fire magic perspective

#

But it could be more

#

Asphixiate draining blood instead

#

Stuff like that

#

But that kinda stuff would work best with magic types being more distinct

#

Rather than ancients being regular elements with another name

full bloom
#

If it were to just buff combust that would be fine, but the activate being on runic charge means it's an ability you'd be using if you're not using combust
Either sanguine charge should buff asphixiate too so regardless of build you benefit, or it shouldn't be on runic charge so you don't lose the +12% damage for no gain

split zephyr
#

Sanguine charge a 2nd buff from the cast right?

#

So you just get 2 buffed basics from the cast

molten pagoda
#

you lose 12% basic damage

full bloom
#

Combust isn't a basic, but yeah you still get the benefits of runic charge (which you would want) but the sanguine charge buff does nothing, yet activating it takes all your stacks

molten pagoda
#

it was designed to make wrack more valuable, so the design doesnt work with runic charge which is already valuable

split zephyr
#

Could just split the damage bonus buff from the charge buff

molten pagoda
#

or just do something else

split zephyr
#

But it's probably an intended tradeoff

molten pagoda
#

like an empowered basic attack

molten pagoda
#

btw part of the point was double damage on wrack, runic charge does no damage

#

exsanguinate should just be changed

split zephyr
#

Tbh i found the original exsanguinate enhance rather bland

#

Doesn't tie in flavorwise at all

#

Just a raw harder hit

molten pagoda
#

of course

full bloom
#

I think it's just because they reused the symbol from wrack and wrack buffed combust (in addition to dealing damage and gaining adrenaline) so should def be changed whatever form that takes

patent cipher
#

I didn't like that it took wrack away from you

molten pagoda
#

exsanguinate piggybacks offthe 'bloodfire' idea that they shoehorned into the game for like 3 years

patent cipher
#

Although in beta I've found I no longer need wrack to maintain a rotation

#

Soo, win win

molten pagoda
#

and got rid of, but kept the whole 'blood is fire' thing for weakness

#

blood should be blood

split zephyr
molten pagoda
#

yes because it still does the same thing

#

it's only slightly different

patent cipher
#

Has anyone looked at water surge btw, cool as hell.

split zephyr
#

Will see where they wanna go with the long term ideation

#

But elements boiling down to recolors has always been pretty eh

#

Twas part of why ancients was as hype back in the day as it was

full bloom
#

Normal magics would need something big to compete with incite fear

split zephyr
#

I mean, not necessarily

patent cipher
#

Crumble undead Rasialpog

split zephyr
#

Lower upkeep cost, can hold its own

full bloom
#

Eh not really

molten pagoda
#

upkeep is dramatically lower in the beta though lol

#

incite fear camping is gonna be like 200k per hour

full bloom
#

On ancients you can use incite fear for your 5 stacks then switch

#

On normals you don't have any abilities, but even if you did they have to compete with having access to incite fear

split zephyr
#

If water / ice are properly distinguished for vulnerabilities, it'd probably work well enough

molten pagoda
#

weakness barely works in rs3

split zephyr
#

Basically just accuracy

#

Which does matter

full bloom
#

Even if normals are close to or even better than most ancient spells, if there's nothing to get tsunami off earlier it's gonna sink

patent cipher
#

Which is why gsonic is so crazy cause it opens the door for that.

split zephyr
#

Hydro charge.

  • Tsunami aoe increased by 1 range
full bloom
#

Imo weaknesses really should be simplified to style rather than damage type, idk why white knights are weak to water in particular or Yanille soldiers to earth rather than they wear metal armour so magic is better against them but this was all talked about a couple days ago

split zephyr
#

That would be fine for most targets

#

But specific weaknesses are a good thing to have as an option

#

Like the elemental wizards south of fally

molten pagoda
#

actually, incite fear ends up remaining around the same cost of around 1.3m per hour

split zephyr
#

A fire elemental shouldn't be weak to fire magic, e.g.

molten pagoda
#

exsanguinate however is down to under 300k per hour to use

#

well, if you ever used wrack and ruin

void lion
molten pagoda
#

I can imagine they'll get looked at to reduce them a bit but in general I'm very much not into this whole "this is useful because you're spending less money" angle (outside of egregious costs) because you're deliberately designing things into a corner of only being relevant to people that aren't good enough to make money

#

it'd be massively pigeonholing the normal spellbook

split zephyr
#

It was merely an example

#

Ideally basic elements would have their own niche thematics

#

Pyro charge:

  • convert dragon breath into a channel
  • stronger combust
  • detonate larger aoe and apply combust
void lion
split zephyr
#

Aero charge:

  • Asphyxiate is a damage over time
  • concentrated blast extends on crit
  • dragon breath knocks back
#

Stuff like that

molten pagoda
#

if we're being honest both exsanguinate and incite fear's effects were made with the mentality of "we can't update the normal spellbook anymore" which is why incite fear affects tsunami and exsanguinate buffs combust

#

there's no reason not to just copy incite fear on a high level water spell

full bloom
#

Copying it whole sale would be a bit icky

split zephyr
#

It'd take away from the uniqueness

#

Bland is bad

molten pagoda
#

it's essentially stolen valor

#

keep the tsunami effect, make the passive one different

split zephyr
#

All that stuff is likely to be shuffled around if magic is getting more indepth tweaking tbh

molten pagoda
#

what stuff

split zephyr
#

I wouldn't be surprised if tsunami will be decoupled from incite fear

#

In favor of something else

molten pagoda
#

very much doubt it

split zephyr
#

It's basically in the same boat as pulverize and ezk

molten pagoda
#

no idea why you think that

full bloom
#

At some point incite fear does feel required for magic
Not part of these combat style improvements but I could see a later "combat update" focusing on spells and ammo effects being changed/rebalanced

molten pagoda
#

I guess you could say it's accessibility if tsunami is 40% by default

#

imbue shadows is after all

full bloom
#

🤔 I guess you ain't wrong... it's 100% because it's an ult but we now have ults that can cost less so the default could be changed if they were looking at spells

analog snow
#

I mean... if you ARE using Incite Fear... I don't think you're in early/mid game anymore tbh

molten pagoda
#

tsunami unlocks at level 90

undone flower
analog snow
#

yeah

undone flower
analog snow
#

like, I have Incite Fear unlocked, I HAVE used Exansuingate... but... I'm doing Barrows and NM AG and GWD1 and trying to get into GWD2...

#

and like, I look at Incite Fear and I go "that is hilariously expensive for me"

rocky berry
#

Barge:

Barge needs to spammable but do no damage. You can cast other abilities along with barge. Make barge similar to surge in the (is the term gcd?)

If people like the damage, then it can do it on a cooldown while spamming around.

Greater Barge adds the bleed effect and more damage. Or it can just do damage on EVERY barge.

Death Swiftness:
Reduce the buff but increase the bubble area that you run around in.

Shields:
Make them a qualifying offhand. Look at Captain America. Maybe reduce the defensive stats by half on all shields and add attack stats to it.

sweet elk
#

Does anyone know where to put a bug report for the Beta? It looks like dominion gloves lost their effects

bright flame
#

just post here

sweet elk
#

It really sucks, I spent a whole ton of time grinding those gloves out and they just removed it all.

onyx jay
sweet elk
#

Yeesh, it also broke legacy mode

atomic sphinx
#

In Beta amascut solo tanking its nearly impossible to nati>immort>cade

#

Since adre Management is totally ass now

molten pagoda
#

can't tank with power gear anymore? oh no

atomic sphinx
#

What exactly does Tank Gear do better?

#

Since Both Attacks will kill you there is no difference at certain enrages

onyx jay
#

Maybe those are some of the points theyre trying to focus on? Also def and lp hasn’t been beta’d yet so there may be other plans we just don’t see yet

stark galleon
split zephyr
#

ew people put abilities into this click and wait game

viscid bane
#

What's stopping you from using immort and cade

#

Just use less DPS spenders

#

There is still plenty of adren to tank

stark galleon
#

Sounds like fun and engaging combat

split zephyr
viscid bane
#

You can nami for 0% adren now bruh

split zephyr
#

peak performance

stark galleon
#

Cool bruh

#

(idek anything about beta amascut adre, nor do you I guess!)

viscid bane
#

What are you talking about

stark galleon
#

?

#

I thought you were replying to me 😅

viscid bane
#

I was asking @atomic sphinx

split zephyr
#

returning to the elemental magic topic from earlier here #1466811914452598865 message
each element having it's own runic charge set, could be a neat way to build up an omnipower with multiple charge effects

stark galleon
#

Still point stands, not being allowed to use dps spenders sounds like fun and engaging combat!

split zephyr
#

would also make for a good usecase to retain dual wielding magic types

stark galleon
#

(just get your dps pile to voke and do the mechanic instead of cheesing it with immo Smirkse )

viscid bane
#

Sounds like skill issue to me

molten pagoda
#

cant do things the exact same way i was doing them before, chopped update 0/10 ruining the game

atomic sphinx
viscid bane
atomic sphinx
#

Talking about Skill issue is ridiculous, if the whole reason of This Shit Update is to simplify the combat

#

But theyre Making it more difficult imo

#

Same with Meta removal

#

Casual Players cant sun amascut p7 and benefit from it while you could With meta

viscid bane
#

The update is geared to simplify the basics of combat but they're still retaining difficulty at the high end so this isn't really outside of expectations

#

Tanking amascut is very much a high end activity so you shouldn't expect it to be dumbed down all that much

atomic sphinx
#

Im Talking that its getting more difficult than before imo

#

And thats just because you get less adren

stark galleon
#

@atomic sphinx Btw I went ahead and tested it, it seems like you still can do both just fine

atomic sphinx
#

Sure i can spamm Autos or something and getting the Tank Phase done but thats Not really enjoyable

atomic sphinx
stark galleon
#

With nami

#

Wrack + Stall gsonic at wars

atomic sphinx
#

Nami is over before the Part comes

stark galleon
#

1s lemme record

#

but gsonic -> sc (lmao good change!) -> sun -> fsoa -> gconc -> nami -> asphyx should set you up

atomic sphinx
#

I do divert sun adre pot gconc nami fsoa

stark galleon
#

really wanna gsonic instead of divert

#

@atomic sphinx Ignore me struggling to click an actual adren generating ability at the end Smirkse

#

Can juice it more, I suck at basing

iron quest
#

If the devs want to make wands play entirely differently from crits, then I would like to see burns getting a stackable spender ability. Right now you spend on wand spec, dragon breath, spend on combust, corrupt for zero, then build for 15 seconds till corrupt again. Wild Magic or Asphyxiate have absolutely no synergy with burns, there’s not even a burn EoF.

stark galleon
#

There is the Deep Burn eof :^)

full bloom
iron quest
#

On main it was possible to play wands very similar to a crit build except you’re using burn abilities on cooldown (warmup?), but if the intent is to make wands play totally differently then they need a separate adrenaline generator and a spammable spender that actually stacks with burn code.

Add a generation ability that triggers from burn damage. Remove/significantly lower the CD on Combust and make it stack. T95 wands burn-only builds are now 100x more viable.
Even better, remove the flat +30% burn damage on wands and add that into the base damage of burn abilities. Now burns are somewhat viable without Roar and Ode!

stark galleon
tropic mica
patent cipher
stark galleon
#

Wouldn't call it easier either, just less fun 🤣

stark galleon
#

Seems like it's only after tc with no target near?

iron quest
#

My suggestions to rework magic burns into a ramping damage build similar to Bik Arrows (but requiring a bit more strategy than just "use the green arrows"):
Remove the burn detonate effect from Roar and Ode, but increase the cooldown reset chance to 50% and when it triggers a cooldown reset you are refunded 10% adrenaline. Remove the +30% burn damage from the set bonus, as the rework I'm proposing will make burns significantly stronger at base.
All burns now stack damage from multiple applications, and all active burn durations refresh when using another burn ability or Dragon Breath but have a shorter base duration. You have to strategically time burn timer refreshes or you won't build up damage. (Maybe code something where burn timers don't deplete during boss Immune phases, so they don't run out when you can't refresh them.)
Instead of detonating burn effects, Kerapac's Wristraps Dragonbreath increases the current per-hit damage that Combust is dealing. Probably reduce the % boost to 10% normal/15% enhanced so you're not going exponential to the moon. deals a % of the total burn damage active on the target, without reducing the actual burns. I'm talking 20k+ Dragonbreath in long fights.
Detonate becomes an off-GCD ability which consumes all burn effects, in case you want to force a DPS check or something at the cost of losing your built-up DoT. Blast diffusion boots will spread out the burn damage across targets within 2 tiles instead of all damage dealt to the main target, maybe useful at Nex AoD Praesuls?
Add an adrenaline-generating ability that scales on burn damage (not burn hits, burn damage, so you get more adrenaline as you build up more fire. Share cooldown with Tsunami.)
Keep the 12 Exsanguinate stacks when using Sanguine Charge, so you get the Combust boost without losing the +12% multiplier on your subsequent Dragon Breath. The Wrack and Ruin boost is now +30% damage stacks on your next use of Combust rather than extending its duration.

iron quest
#

Note that the Roar and Ode spec damage per hit will be significantly reduced as you can refresh its duration indefinitely as long as you're using magic. This will also help reduce the whole "Ingenuity+Wand Spec" being used by the other 3 styles.

tranquil terrace
#

Suggestion in case of lack of healing for ranged. What if there will be an arrow with a simular effect to the onyx bakriminal (e) bolts? The splintering arrow seems dead now with the abilities no longer in the game? What if you make it t T95 arrow and have some kind of healing effect? A bit in comparison with the healing the ghost of necromancy can do.
Or, what if you could use bolts with a bow, to give higher variation in what you need? Some source of healing for ranged would be nice. Considering the fact that the Ghost is really good for necromancy but would be nice if not only limited to necromancy as a style for heaving healing options. Also an option for more AOE damage would be fine..
I really love imbue shadows. It's good, strong but not to strong. It's exactly what ranged needed as a replacement for incendiary shot. The other changes for ranged feels nice and in line with the combat style. I do kinda miss fragmentation shot, it was quite the strong ability on moving targets. Giving imbue gales a small hit on cast would be nice too, nothing major, just a small hit so it's not just a self buff. Great job guys!

iron quest
dusty grotto
#

Since range has arrow effects and mage has spells. Can melee get weapon greases with various effects? Extra dps/adren/healing? Whole new reward space which can bring it up to the other styles

cursive mural
#

I liked the suggestion that ranged get some sort of way to hit count maybe 3rd or 5th hit heals you

#

would be a good way to actually introduce stack counting early on, whether that comes from gear or a spec or a new bow or an ability idk

#

but

#

less sweaty players can enjoy incidentally getting the extra healing and people who like planning can try to factor that into mits/healing/consumables

tranquil terrace
iron quest
#

You'd still need level 95 ranged to equip a t95 arrow even if you're using a Willow Shortbow.

tranquil terrace
#

True, but besides that I think the idea of making such arrow is solid 🙂

true grotto
#

Surely the other styles will get sustain and we don't leave only necro with free insane healing

edgy basalt
#

i'm fine with them getting some built-in sustain options but ghost probably needs to be omega nerfed

#

i'd also want healing options to feel like more of a deliberate part of the kit for a playstyle/substyle instead of "these arrows heal lol"

proven stump
#

By resolving the above, our end goal is this: We want to offer better routes for learning combat and getting into bossing. We want to bring back individual combat style identities as well as return the game to a place where leaving your bank and heading off to combat is something exciting that you plan and prepare for, especially with a mind to being able to sustain and keep yourself in a fight for longer.
(From the news post)

This sounds like they plan on nerfing ghost sustain or nerfing wars retreat somehow

edgy basalt
#

wars and max guild portal was definitely a mistake. or at the very least, putting you so close to the boss rooms was a mistake

tranquil terrace
#

why? It's one of the best updates from the past haha

edgy basalt
#

it completely killed the idea that you want to make your boss trips last a while because having to regear and head back isn't incredibly trivial

#

staying to do an extra kill should result in more kph than leaving and coming back after every kill

proven stump
#

No, as someone who played before then, it just made banking way more annoying

#

Theres so many bosses where you have to tp after each kill

#

Running 30s to rax every kill does not add anything to the game

edgy basalt
#

rax was not a fight you had to bank after every kill for

proven stump
#

Technically true but effectively, especially for lower level/newer players, yes, you do have to bank every kill

edgy basalt
#

longer trips to reduce time spent banking seems like a good reason for people to try and improve vs it not mattering how sloppy a kill is as long as they make it to the end

proven stump
#

I dont think any additional incentive for cleaner kills is needed tbh. Theres already inherent incentive for doing so - more reliably getting to the end, reduced supply usage and generally faster kills (with some exceptions). Intentionally tanking certain mechanics for speed kills is a different discussion

stark galleon
true grotto
#

No sense in it as it is

proven stump
#

part of the issue with rs3 compared to other mmos is that we dont have a healer class - every style is expected to sustain themselves with their own kit (incl soulsplit) + food

edgy basalt
#

man it's like healing support could be a subclass of magic but that's not allowed because everyone and their nan has decided that magic = crit spam and isn't allowed to do anything else

stark galleon
#

What do you mean, we used to have heal other spam at kk and raids :^)

edgy basalt
#

woo healer role is a 1 off spell from a fremmy quest!

cursive mural
#

something something ice asylum

#

I remember when we were noobs doing ed3 trash runs and someone accidentally pulled bossymcbossface or whatever his name is and we panic asylum lol

iron quest
# proven stump part of the issue with rs3 compared to other mmos is that we dont have a healer ...

The devs have made it pretty clear they don’t particularly want to add a healer/buff-er class to the game. Having a “base tank” taking auto-attacks at the endgame bosses while everyone has to do mechanics is as far as they want to go towards the DPS Tank Healer triangle.
And besides, anyone already can fully heal the whole party with Barricade Heal Other or make the whole group immortal with Barricade Intercept, it’s kinda busted.

proven stump
#

and thats fine - but just noting that having a dedicated healer class is one way to help solve this issue of styles getting sustain

iron quest
#

Can we get some code tweaks so that draining your stat levels doesn’t prevent you from using abilities by level requirements? You can’t boost to use abilities early so stat drains shouldn’t stop you from using abilities you already know.

fringe flume
#

Is there an update on when the next iteration of the beta will drop? Just dropping one version and then going live in a few weeks feels kinda sus

obsidian lily
#

Comes out tomorrow I believe. I was hoping for a new post about the changes they are putting in today though

supple bay
icy crescent
#

Seems very silly that they're giving communication on all these different things apart from an on going combat beta that's going to change a massive part of the game.

Where's the logic.... Tell us what's happening please.... 🤷‍♂️🤦

molten pagoda
#

they didn't post a blog before the beta last time because they dont want to give people 24 hours to speculate based on text

#

smaller but same deal this time, there's not really more good than bad to posting the changes before people can do anything with them

icy crescent
#

Yeah, specifics - I can understand but just "tomorrow" with 0 details?

And a "tomorrow" message that probably 0.1% of the people who care know since it's somewhere hidden in on this channel xd

molten pagoda
#

it was in pvme, and generally the updates have been on thursday with the friday release of this beta iteration being explicitly a delay

icy crescent
#

That makes it worse 💀

#

Instead of having somewhere to keep players updated on a specific topic - they say it's tomorrow in a 3rd party discord... Yikes

molten pagoda
#

what's the point in having a heads up? your job allow you to take time off within a week?

icy crescent
#

That's literally just dumb

molten pagoda
#

tbh as far as I see it, if you were paying attention you would already expect a thursday update

icy crescent
#

Yep, that's totally how it works 🤣💀🤦

They've barely released any beta's in the past 3 years but; based on like 4 beta's were meant to know the day and time they're making updates 😭🤣

#

The fact someone is arguing at wanting communication from Devs is fucking wild

#

This community is fucked

molten pagoda
#

I was being favorable and ignoring the fact that it didn't matter, since you'll be notified when the update drops

#

I'd like more advance notice but I would be lying if I said it hasn't just resulted in early anticipation more than keeping me informed

#

it's one day you wont die

icy crescent
#

It just seems very silly how I've been hearing the information and I don't know if it's true since jagex themselves don't post it all in one place for us to look at

molten pagoda
#

they don't get asked in one place

sage plinth
#

As of currently, if we want to simply summon the zombie in a more relaxed manner and keep it around the for extra damage, you can't really unless you use 2 ectoplasm with Summon undead army. Or manually summon him, which then defeat the point of wanting to keeping it around while AFk'ing, since the Command Putrid Zombie , which is triggered by the Revolution, makes the zombie explode and dismiss it, while it is an ability that is supposed to be VERY deliberate in it's activation.

I propose here that the Command Putrid Zombie can no longer be triggered by Rotation, so that it can fit more nicely into an AFK combat bar without changing on how the zombie itself work. It'll still be summoned automatically, but you will be able to decide when he blows up.

Yes i know the improvements are currently on the three first style, but since it's an update about combat, it doesn't hurt to lump it with the rest

dusk summit
sage plinth
dusk summit
#

I get that, but I'm not sure they should be making changes of thsi kind to entice afk is my point.

sage plinth
obsidian lily
#

These are good points. No one is expecting us to full manual or even manually activate thresholds while casually slaying.

stark galleon
#

As you said, conjure army already solves that though, surely 2 ectoplasm isn't too much of an ask

proven stump
#

in general, lower effort/intensity combat tends to have higher costs, whether by intent or otherwise
for example, more ammo used due to more autoattacks, or penance powder to upkeep prayer instead of sipping restores

of course, higher intensity stuff costs even more than that due to wanting to juice as much as possible, but doing the exact same combat afk vs active tends to be more costly at the same gear level

#

im not saying it shouldnt be changed, and in fact, the ammo stuff i mentioned is being changed

sage plinth
obsidian lily
#

Low level irons in particular are kinda screwed lol. Theyll have to level a ton of fletching because shops just dont sell enough t30-t50 ammo

undone flower
sage plinth
undone flower
sage plinth
#

and i'd rather not lose it

#

but the perspective is appreciated

#

still think it shouldn't be the case

proven stump
#

since ranged requires so many things to work well

sage plinth
undone flower
obsidian lily
proven stump
#

i mean yes

obsidian lily
#

So it should be considered in their new designs and early game reworks

proven stump
#

but theyre also planning on changing shop stocks i thought?

#

so you should be able to buy a lot more from shops

#

not sure if i hallucinated that though

#

and its certainly not a part of combat beta

obsidian lily
#

Throwing knives/axes might be a viable solution, only requiring smithing. But idk when they are updating shop stocks

#

Do throwing knives even still exist?

sage plinth
#

still believe that it shouldn't be a thing.

Runescape very much knows and encourage lower intensity AFK combat

#

and is usually much less higher on ressource cost than active combat

undone flower
#

you use summon army everywhere

#

since it saves a ton of time

sage plinth
#

i never do , unless fighting against higher tier mobs/boss

#

if i do low intensity, it's all individual. i'd rather not double my supply cost just for a few seconds

#

but again,. the discussion isn't about the cost ressource, it's just about making command zombie not be triggerable by AFK

stark galleon
#

But there are places where you actually do want zombie to explode

#

Adding an extra toggle just because a player doesn't want to spend an extra 70k/h isn't worth any dev time I'd say

#

(in the first place just make zombie explode something that you wanna use, don't make it nuke the zombie)

sage plinth
#

yeah honestly just making it so that bloody zombie doesn't disappear to begin with would be better... it always irked me since day 1

vocal girder
#

will there be an update today on the combat beta?

molten pagoda
#

yes

full bloom
scenic fox
#

You know looking at everything I have to wonder if soulsplit was just a huge issue for the games balance. The introduction of this level of sustain though it was a long time ago made it a clear change and breakaway from the usual just eat food to restore hp. And its so inbuilt that it makes it obvious necromancy is just great because it can keep itself alive, and the other styles have to work way harder to stay alive it seems like while absolutely having an over-reliance on soulsplit. Technically the only other form of "sustain" that was accessible was blood barrage but that was ancient magic and not even commonly used back in the day.

icy crescent
#

when update

hot quarry
#

i dont feel like soulsplit was a bad idea,

Earlier when fight lasted way longer, and our damage output was lower. prayer flicking would make the difference between killing or not killing a boss.

It added some skill expression, that was great to do.
But now for most bosses we can get our dmg numbers so high that we outsustain the boss. and don't need to prayer flick anymore.

We still need to do that on high enrage bosses, but at lower enrages. or normal bosses, we do not.
Necromancy made that even worse by adding more sustain on top of that, making most pvm'ers lazy. because they never needed or learned to prayer flick

molten pagoda
iron quest
#

I taught myself prayer flicking at NM Arch-Glacor with only the Flurry (prayer flick mechanic) turned on, but yeah ghost healing completely outscales that even with no prayers used at all. I only used Necromancy when learning 0% HM as the ghost sustain was just barely enough to get me through with correct prayer flicks. I eventually taught myself SS flicking so I could use other styles and start climbing, but for the longest time I would only use necro 0%.

undone flower
vocal girder
#

what times the beta update today? will there be changes to the existing beta?

undone flower
#

when i first got ss, i still defaulted to reflect prayers since i just was not able to deal enough damage

scenic fox
#

Hmm. If people are doing all of the content with prayer flicking then why is there so much mention of sustain then?

patent cipher
undone flower
iron quest
undone flower
scenic fox
# undone flower where?

I thought I saw a lot of it in this chat. Maybe I've just been misreading though. I'm just now returning after 3 years myself because of them finally adding changes and hoping for the best tbh haha

void lion
#

The risk is if you add more sustain to lower the floor of entry to bosses, you risk making bosses afkable for optimized builds. Rasial is a good example.

iron quest
undone flower
#

and you can camp deflect range for solak

patent cipher
#

There's complaints of sustain issues from people who haven't learned how to use soul split, or just gave up learning altogether.

undone flower
#

like in the blight phase in solak, most ppl in my teams just camps deflects range since sustain with ss can be very sketch lol

#

and you cant ss camp with base most of the time

#

thats a good way to get hit for 5000 damage!

iron quest
patent cipher
#

But the more real issue is, what do players do before they unlock soul split?
That's what sustain in flurry/ghost is really there for imo.

#

Bosses don't even come into it

#

We should be talking talking jimmy doing his abyssal demon slayer tasks.

undone flower
#

and reso the strong attacks

#

or if im slayering, ill put sacrifice on my bar lol

hot quarry
#

SACRIFICE!

undone flower
#

i was somehow able to do araxxor without ss 😭

hot quarry
#

But basically the lack of sustain mentioned here, is basically aimed at early game before you unlock soulsplit

#

and people compare it to necromancy, and feel like ranged, magic / melee should be on level with that.

vocal girder
#

what if they made protection prayers block 100% of attacks, and got rid of devotion?

undone flower
vocal girder
#

bro thatd solve the sustain problem wont it?

#

just like how osrs has it

undone flower
vocal girder
#

still gotta pray flick

patent cipher
#

Then you just get to osrs sustain problems

iron quest
patent cipher
#

I think they've started ignoring protection prayers 100% protect right?

undone flower
vocal girder
#

lmao true

iron quest
#

4000% A-G is now "flick the autos and afk"

#

4000% Telos is now "dodge the rocks and afk"

undone flower
vocal girder
#

in that case no style can have self sustain as well as necromancy

undone flower
#

solak is not deflect rang and afk lmao

iron quest
#

Not every boss breaks with 100% deflection but a lot of them do. There's a video of somebody soloing 60,000% Zamorak with Everlasting Faith on Leagues, even the Disintegrate rune wasn't enough to stop this man.

iron quest
undone flower
vocal girder
#

unless melee lets you summon, nords that work like necromancys ghost

#

problem solved

iron quest
undone flower
dusk summit
dusk summit
# vocal girder what if they made protection prayers block 100% of attacks, and got rid of devot...

This won't work in modern RS. Too strong. But... i do think theres an argument for making them better than 50% to smooth the learning curve. Not sure with the 3% solid food tax from 10% how munching food feels, but id like to see them try something in a beta where protection prayers are 75% and SS healing is cut in half. Balance souls/eof/powder to +5% and split soul to 800% to keep those the same. But as of now, eating food and properly praying is about as safe as just camping ss in a lot of instances, but its a lot more work. So in order to improve, you essentially need to jump from camping ss to ss flicking, which is a massive jump in what youre juggling. Ideally what I propose would make this not true. It would halve SS and double food effectiveness, quadrupling their difference creating incentive to try to use prayers properly. This wasnt much of an issue when we did 200k dpm because SS didnt heal nearly as much, but anymore with 700k+ dpm, it is.

analog snow
#

mmmmm... this kinda leaves me wondering about SS as "the prayer you use when afking hellhounds" and similar use cases

#

because it doesn't JUST do the thing it does at bosses

#

...maybe more bosses should have something like Memory of Nomads thing where SS does less at them specifically?

hot quarry
#

but with them reducing the penalty of eating food would that not incentize people to flick less and eat more?

#

since the penalty and skill level is lower of that

undone flower
#

if you spam food, you are gonna nuke your rotations

scenic fox
#

I wonder if food will actually be worthwhile going forward. like it's already got the issue vs other methods of restoration that it's only one item per slot where even potions of restoration can easily be 4+ per slot

void lion
scenic fox
#

vamp aura will be getting removed though isn't it?

undone flower
scenic fox
#

at the end of this month at that

void lion
analog snow
#

???peaches heal 500 a pop?

#

you get maybe four peaches a kill?

void lion
#

You can stay at Kree for a full hour in level 70 gear with a bunyip, onyx bols or blood spells, and bones to peaches.

analog snow
#

oh, Kree

#

lol

void lion
#

The greatest challenge with sustain is you want to promote sustain a bit to allow people to minimize bank times, but you want to try and mitigate risk of folks waiting unil they unlock "afk-ability" to be able to go to a boss.

iron quest
dusk summit
scenic fox
analog snow
#

ehhhh

scenic fox
#

though I guess beasts of burden get past that anyhow

analog snow
#

the main thing that removes afkability is mechanics that require response

#

so like, QBD is a pretty low level boss

#

but if you tried to afk her I'm pretty sure you'd die

#

even if you were in bis

dusk summit
analog snow
#

given that there are no intentions to remove afk as a concept

scenic fox
#

I guess we'll see. As somebody who prefers mage I hope they revamp spells and spellbooks at somepoint, but also from what I've seen melee is the biggest issue still they need more fixing, magic is okay though crit + bleed is a bit anti-synergistic and i kinda feel like it should focus on spellbooks over abilties but I digress. Melee looks rather unappealing still though with the changes

analog snow
#

and killing hellhounds in useful quantities is... well, a lot of hellhounds

#

and fighting hellhounds is like... not interesting

#

I dunno why you'd want to specifically nerf hellhounds

hot quarry
#

for training purposes i feel like afk is fine

analog snow
#

training, charm collection, clue acquisition

hot quarry
#

but obviously add a reduced rate to active skilling pvm'ing

#

for me it could be a 50% ratio

#

doing something afk shouldn't be more than 50% effective than doing something active

patent cipher
analog snow
#

they don't

#

they're too expensive for the vast majority of purposes

void lion
void lion
analog snow
#

pressing X to doubt

iron quest
void lion
hot quarry
#

it was a nice switch to use at kree'arra when i got low

void lion
#

Right, well the trade off between Effort - Money - Time is kinda a fair pick-two triangle.

Sustain should almost never be best dps and cheapest all at once ideally.

void lion
finite comet
#

Nooo I got a flight flight skip but I wasn't recording

stark galleon
finite comet
#

XD

undone vault
#

hi, perhaps im a nesh and this wont be considered but, what about the defensive abilities? I was in the process of making a particular account when i noticed thresholds, basics and ultimate's of the defense and constitution variety remain untouched.. obviously this is not a specific style of combat but considering its used with all styles, does anyone else think maybe they should also be looked at?

foggy dew
#

They will be looked at

iron quest
foggy dew
#

def / hp will be looked at in the future. Right now it's just the actual combat styles themselves

undone vault
#

ah okay understood then I'm sorry i missed that. thank you for a quick response C:

storm vapor
#

Hopefully they will give Defensives and HP abilities a good look next and give them more consistent sustain/damage denial, especially with shields.

iron quest
#

Debilitate being worse Reflect...just give Reflect two charges...

foggy dew
#

Used to be fine because debilitate could be used without shield. But that became irrelevant when boneshield came out and there was never a need to choose debilitate over reflect

molten pagoda
#

they are not gonna give you two charges of reflect lmfao

storm vapor
#

I'm of the opinion that shields should be the main provider of sustainability, players have become too conditioned by SS/Vampyrism.

undone vault
#

lol i mean limitless seems useless if we are getting rid of thresholds entirely

#

and i didnt know debilitate requires a shield now??

atomic sphinx
#

and 3 bonds deleted with mahjarrat

storm vapor
#

Everything has to be tied to damage, so everything that trades damage in favor of something else becomes increasingly negative.

atomic sphinx
#

i hope ill get refunded lol

foggy dew
undone vault
#

i think they would just change limitless to do something else

#

considering its a traded good and all

iron quest
dry wagon
undone vault
foggy dew
undone vault
#

ohhhh that was my fault i missunderstood what you said

dry wagon
#

Yeah your wording was wierd

foggy dew
#

Boneshield made it never a reason to choose debilitate over reflect

undone vault
#

bone shield made that benifit irrelevant got you

dry wagon
#

I still use debilitate more to save necro runes

iron quest
#

One thing that needs to be addressed either way is that Bone Shield killed the defender due to its half-tiered formula. It should be raised to tier-5 like all power armor.

polar marsh
#

I def choose between debil and reflect all the time tbh

foggy dew
#

I use debilitate all the time because my brain hasn't been rewired to know boneshield exists

#

So blindly pressing keybinds still defaults to debilitate

patent cipher
#

Tomorrow not today

undone flower
#

you can debil + reflect solak pads if you dont have powerbursts

#

with 2 reflect charges, you cant do that

#

and you can do the same for amascut scarabs if you dont have adren for baricade

foggy dew
#

True. But it was obvious enough that i was only talking about using one of them a time. And i don't think theres a reason besides having no money to not just use reflect

undone flower
#

saved me a few times

foggy dew
#

Sure. But assuming you can actually use both and have enough money to afford buying new necro runes

scarlet frost
#

I don't like the ek zek kil change. You nerfed a legendary weapon lol. The weapon was special cuz u guys nerfed its bleed set up. Quake removed and then u remove another passive . K

molten pagoda
#

mfs look at 120k+ damage in one tick and say ugh nerfed 🙄

vocal girder
scarlet frost
timid vale
#

once per minute you hit 120k

#

after a 1 min charge up

molten pagoda
#

and +12% damage throughout that 1 minute and forever after

undone flower
timid vale
#

yes

#

im not saying it isnt

scarlet frost
#

With this new bleed set up. Ezk probably would be stronger right now if it had its old bleed passive

timid vale
#

but adding a few niche passives to it to then take them away less than a year later just feels bad

scarlet frost
#

Precisely especially when the old bleed wasn't even bad

molten pagoda
#

you're gonna be feeling a lot of 'just feels bad' throughout the next year

timid vale
#

i just wanna see 1 pro for the melee changes

#

all i see are cons

scarlet frost
#

There isn't. The only pro is the meteor strike with the new range adren dump

#

U mix it together with greater Rico

#

And natural instinct

bright flame
#

@scarlet frostlets quit tagging jmods

#

if you have feedback, just post it in here

#

and it will get read

scarlet frost
bright flame
#

also

#

do not @ everyone

#

wild to even think that is even appropriate

undone flower
#

lol

scarlet frost
#

Ek zek kil needs to be reworked. The community was already angry that ezk was reworked twice in the beginning. We were fine with the bleed passive with the masterwork spear switch. Now u guys change combat with new bleeds that would've made the old ezk good but now nerf the ezk with the niche passives. That's not fair

#

And no one cares about stupid ezk 120k damage dump. I can do that with varanus dagger with meteor strike. The niche passive was good for ezk

viscid bane
#

melee is no longer grim/crit build locked and meteor can be used flexibily now that the cost is reduced. There is way less keybind bloat, massacre is kinda dope now, and pulverize can now be used without EZK. DPS rotation are also less centered on varanus spam, which is funner imo. Those are the main pros to the update to me

scarlet frost
viscid bane
#

I ran a few solak melee kills in the beta and found it to feel significantly less awkward compared to live game

scarlet frost
#

Solak is easy solo

timid vale
#

things id love to see 1. either remove increased damage from zerk or increase its base duration 2. make bleeds receive the damage multiplier from zerk 3. allow me to hydrix grico with meteor strike up even if it doesn't give a massive adren boost 4. give back destroy 5. make meteor give adren per hit and the 3% adren per tick rather than 1.5x adren for basics and the 3% adren per tick

scarlet frost
#

Exactly what I said

#

The only good thing for melee rn is range adren and meteor strike

#

But they didn't need to nerf ezk

#

In team battles. Quake and pulverize was something. Only ezk can do

#

Now everyone can do it

timid vale
#

also give back ultimate status to meteor and pulverise as vestments being nerfed as well with the current state

scarlet frost
#

Why buy a 2b weapon

#

U could just buy varanus dagger and eof it

#

U can 120k dump with varanus mercy easy and cheaper

viscid bane
#

and do less damage compared to ezk

patent cipher
#

I'd be interested to see that in the beta.

scarlet frost
#

Ur not experienced

viscid bane
#

does pressing the same button 10 times in a row take experience now

scarlet frost
#

Yeah cuz I'm a hybrid on mobile

#

I do hard mode zuk on mobile

dusky meadow
#

Chi didn't spam ping people in a fit of rage

viscid bane
dusky meadow
#

So that's bonus points

#

"now everyone can do it" is a ton of stuff in the beta not loading all effects between endgame unlocks

scarlet frost
patent cipher
#

I wouldn't waste my time on mobile, big respect

dusky meadow
#

You know what they should change though, 4 hits from EZK, make it 1 with lifted hit cap after crunching numbers by a 0 Gnomechildblush

scarlet frost
undone flower
scarlet frost
#

Yeah sometimes they stack disruption shield too

dusky meadow
#

Pvp is more of a niche than anything complained about with "why did you change it"

scarlet frost
dusky meadow
#

Oh another one of those groups.

scarlet frost
#

Nawh just a pvper . Especially in RuneScape 2 days. 💀. Don't go camping green dragons with the dwarf cannon now.

dusky meadow
#

That's not what I meant, but please get back to actual feedback without spamming people's notifications. Gnomechildblush

bright flame
#

@scarlet frostlets stop with attacking people

#

telling people to "get good" isn't productive in a feedback thread

#

not going to warn you again

#

keep it civil and respectful

scarlet frost
#

*☠️

bright flame
#

couldn't help yourself. penalty box you go

dusky meadow
molten pagoda
viscid bane
#

I still think the autoattack ought to take center stage a little bit more

#

you still get that "I've got to avoid using it as much as I can" feeling

dusky meadow
#

Apparently they said they don't want big number buffs for live game so maybe they'd pull down a bunch of them, which would leave autos a bit better

#

But yeah unless the auto does something better it feels like something to avoid

void lion
#

Sponge is crashing out today on PVME Gnomechildblush

#

Poor dude

dusky meadow
#

Like the 100% proc rate AOE barrages are worth it sometimes

void lion
#

Barge and MY are causing problems

full bloom
#

Is PVME better for feedback than here?

molten pagoda
#

sponge reads it all

#

if you want him to talk here, ping him

full bloom
#

That'd be rude

void lion
#

Mods can ban hammer me if cross-linking discords is illegal:

#1450234829106057338 message