Combat Styles Improvements - Beta Update 2

[low yarrow]

Check it out here - https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/combat-styles-improvements---beta-update-2

[formal ibex]

Can we get better buff bar please it’s so hard to manage stacks and timing for some people, especially with the bugs in mobile… people would hate this but I’d love to see an accessibility feature that allows while on revo for certain abilities to fire only if a certain stack is reached?

I’m not good at explaining

Main issue is certain buffs not displaying at all, meaning I’m wasting abilities as it doesn’t seem as some are active when they are…

[frank cedar]

Is this meant to say 0%?

[knotty sphinx]

Non‑basics don’t produce adren

[formal ibex]

I’m dumb so my idea may be completely stupid

[frank cedar]

I'm aware, just confirming the no adren cost for use though

[main totem]

okay who on the team thought it was a good decision to make MT COST adren

like HUH

[knotty sphinx]

I wish that some sort of a Blood‑themed ability from the [[Codex Ultimatus]] was re-introduced to [[Melee]]; and a Miasma‑themed ability was added to [[Necromancy]].

[rich kelp]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Codex_Ultimatus
https://runescape.wiki/w/Melee

[knotty sphinx]

[[Detonate]] costs adren, with [[Magma Tempest]] currently set to fully replace it

[rich kelp]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Magma_Tempest

[main totem]

gross

nty

[rich kelp]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Detonate

[main totem]

That's not what I paid 400m+ on the codex for

[deft blade]

I still dont see any updates on how to smooth out hybriding or tribriding? I would like to see what the team is working on to make briding viable after the update

[foggy canopy]

So what does the zuk cape do now

[pale scarab]

"we've heard you and decided we like pissing you off" Enjoy.

[zinc carbon]

Apparently range zuk cape deadshot does 8 hits

[royal shale]

Just increased damage, reduced adrenaline cost is part of base kit now to be a bit more viable pre-cape

[pale scarab]

"increased damage" meaning its lower for people without cape and the same for people with it.

[foggy canopy]

I see

Well, I stilll have the feeling people at jagex hate melee

[formal ibex]

Love the Necro update

[main totem]

Magic is cooked

[royal shale]

Same damage pre-cape, lower cost pre-cape, same damage with cape. It’s purely a buff.

[main totem]

Time for me to pack it up

[deft blade]

I whole heartedly disagree with the zuk cape changes, end game pvming should feel rewarding not a modest pat in the back

[zinc carbon]

Gales Grico Deadshot 8 hit combo buff bout' to go crazy

[foggy canopy]

This

[noble brook]

surely with quake being back, the zuk will get the boost for it back right?

[frank cedar]

Interesting to remove deto as well, rip the boots even more ig

[hoary hinge]

agree p much

[noble brook]

extra deathskull hits or overpower hits are still a big buff??...

[deft blade]

If they decide to keep the zuk changes then they need to up the damage more not keep it the same

[royal shale]

T95 wands still don’t get adrenaline though, we don’t even get to pretend Sanguine Charge does anything, we still don’t get sun buff…

[noble brook]

i beg you, let us upgrade tmwork to tier 100

[deft blade]

This update seems to be hurting endgame pvming on the off set of making early to mid easier

[surreal coral]

What if Zuk cape decreased ultimate adren req even lower? Or would that be a tad too OP?

[hoary hinge]

if mt is gona cost adren they should let it crit again

[deft blade]

Zuk should stay as is no buff jo nerf

[blazing solar]

you really think leaving omni/deadshot/overpower completely useless until you get zuk cape is a good idea?

[royal shale]

The smoke tendrils changes explicitly are designed to make it more viable to use with tsunami and useless without, but ST is unlocked before tsunami…

[mild brook]

maybe zuk cape abilities should naturally be 70%, cape brings them down to 60%?

[surreal coral]

Isn't that buff too little for BiS cape item?

[noble brook]

what if we let it buff other abilities besides those specific ones?

[mild brook]

tradeoff between making the abilities useless without the cape, and overpowered with it

[cedar mortar]

isn't the cape being BiS (stat-wise) incentive enough already? /g

[clever stag]

No? it doesn't have to be the greatest most insane buff ever. Any improvement is good

[surreal coral]

Fair point

[hoary hinge]

they should make magma tempest not cost adren and make smoke tendrils cost

[clever stag]

It always felt weird that the cape made a trash ability super good in the first place

[mild brook]

its still essentially the damage of a threshold, but for free

[royal shale]

Except at level 65 you don’t have soul split so you’re explicitly spending HP you won’t get back without food.

[mild brook]

oh right lol, forgot that part

about zuk capes

[low yarrow]

from the previous beta

[royal shale]

It’s not that eating food is terrible anymore, it’s that low level players will always be scared of spending their own HP

[elder musk]

However, the lack of crit boosting gear in the mid/early lategame meant in the base kit you weren't comboing off as much as we would've liked.
Okay but you only care about those crits because tsunami and instability which are level 90/95?

[hoary hinge]

i prob wouldve been less scared warly if i could eat a 2k hp shark

[deft blade]

They are not useless, need to remind you before zuk these abilities already existed, zuk gave em a boost a reward for high end pvming. Making the game more accesible for new players and those who new to pvming shouldnt hurt end game pvming

[hoary hinge]

i never used them before zuk

[noble brook]

@low yarrow will quake gets its buff back when used wit hthe zuk sword? and is there any chance tmwork melee will get boosted to tier 100 with a LP bonus

[low yarrow]

How does it hurt it? You have the 60% cost and now the cape makes those abilities even better?

[formal ibex]

Will buff bar be improved? This is a huge hurdle for new/not so good pvmers….

[royal shale]

92 defense pures for tmw now need 99

[main totem]

Hi Azanna, can we get an answer as to why the team thought MT should cost adrenaline instead of just granting it as it does currently in live game?

I read the magic section of the blog and saw no mention of this

[deft blade]

My point was never the change in abilities or their buffa or debuffs, im happy for the changes i just dont see how an end game reward such as the zuk cape should become less of what it is today

[low yarrow]

Detonate gone, MT made better to fit into the role

[main totem]

I see

[dire roost]

ty for deleting deto!!

[main totem]

Can't say I agree with it, but hopefully it doesn't stick to such a large adren cost

[hoary hinge]

so basically rip 400m

[main totem]

I paid over 400m for this ability and it's completely gutted

[elder musk]

It's still good for slayer! 😬

[clever stag]

Why does it matter? if you have the cape already nothing changes for you anyways. All this does is make the ablities useful before people kill zuk which is a good thing.

[deft blade]

Im all for making the game easier for new players but we shouldnt touch end game rewards let end game pvming be what it is. A reward for hard work and training to beat difficult bosses

[royal shale]

Yes MT does more damage now but it still has zero synergies. BTW does Corruption Blast generate wand stacks again?

[spark venture]

agree, managing where certain icons are and if we want to see it etc would be great

[mild brook]

magma tempest costing 25% adren do deal 320% average damage seems steep compared to Wild Magic which does almost as much damage but for 15%. I guess that extra adren is for the aoe-ness

[formal ibex]

I’ve found some high end players like to gatekeeper stuff 🤷

[dense root]

team save detonate 2k26 reporting in

blog lists 3 aoe abilities and deletes the only good one

get rid of magma instead

[foggy canopy]

Çan we remove the delay for the greater barge ? Always feel clunky

[deft blade]

Dont be so dense

[main totem]

boi

[hoary hinge]

deleting denotate to gut magma tempest is certainly a choice

[mild brook]

Will Blast Diffusion boots get a different passive, since they currently boost detonate?

[royal shale]

I would like to see blast diffusion boots changes…

[sullen cloak]

@deft blade none of that

[formal ibex]

And some people do struggle with PVM… so by belittle them?

[sullen cloak]

we don't do personal attacks like that

[formal ibex]

sorry we ain’t all as good as you

[deft blade]

It matters because the incentive to reach end game is being removed

[mild brook]

reduced, not removed

[formal ibex]

Cape still has a buff lol

[low yarrow]

It just isn't mate, the cape is still BIS

[main totem]

Genuine question for you though Joe, but what's your reason for wanting MT gone?

[obsidian maple]

Is this still a good updage for the master and gm timers?

[mild brook]

igneous omnipower is still double the damage of non-igneous

[cedar mortar]

what's it like currently in the beta? same effect as live game?

[mild brook]

and similar for others

[formal ibex]

I appreciate the update as a mobile player we don’t have to mess around with adren pots so this makes pvm better for mobile user with limited bars

[dense root]

mostly because it's visual garbage whenever cast, I don't really agree with the need to reduce the number of abilities at all

[formal ibex]

If they fixed mobile then sure

[foggy canopy]

Do you think the delay for using greater barge could be remove ? So we could use it more easily in a rotation..?

[dense root]

but of the three aoes named it's the least interesting of the three imo

[obsidian maple]

Because i'm affraid that the combat update will be harder for the master and gm timers

[formal ibex]

I saw a jmod say they are looking at this

Which I can’t wait for lol

[deft blade]

Fair play, im giving my 2 cents thats all

[foggy canopy]

Pog

[main totem]

I do agree it's visually unappealing when cast, but would you recommend at least replacing it with something perhaps?

[formal ibex]

What’s pog lol

[hoary hinge]

i like the fire

[formal ibex]

I love MY visuals looks powerful haha

MT*

[dense root]

I don't think my feedback in more detail is likely to be more productive given I disagree with the beta's premises

[foggy canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/pogchamp-pog-pogey-poggers-twitch-gif-14340727

[main totem]

Fair enough

[foggy canopy]

This

Happy

[formal ibex]

Ahhhh ok thanks haha

[foggy canopy]

I am happy

[hoary hinge]

i wish i could get a refund on magma tempest at least

[main totem]

I just don't feel that because I spent as much on this ability as an unlock, it should feel like such a shit thing to use now

[formal ibex]

That wait delay is so clunky

[main totem]

Like

I only just bought it recently

[foggy canopy]

Yes

[hoary hinge]

imagine if detonate was a 400m ability unlokced by zuk lmao

[foggy canopy]

You need to stop attacking the target for x amount of time , okay

Try to explain that to a new player that is use to armadyl battlestaff in is suns rotation with fsoa non stop

[main totem]

So that I'm not dwelling on just MT, what exactly is going to happen here with AOE magic?

Because even cblast doesn't give adren

[formal ibex]

Why are people annoyed at GP cost wasted… unfortunate changes happen that impacts prices - only fix is to never update it? Surely if you are great at PVM 400M is easy to get back? Maybe I’m naive or not understanding it

[deft blade]

By that logic lets get a refund for the dagger also lol i can get behidn this

[prime nova]

My immediate feedback is that you guys are doing a fantastic job at listening to current feedback, alot of the new changes are great

[royal shale]

"Take damage over time" not "burn", wands in shambles.

[rapid swallow]

only real L imo is losing slaughter walking, i really liked the skill expression it allowed with early game combat

[royal shale]

Blast diffusion does nothing now

[cedar mortar]

I'm with you. I bought something for 800m and it crashed to 400m later on, I didn't waste 400m - I got something before everyone else

[formal ibex]

It’s crap for mobile users though… I’d rather see an ability that pushes your enemies back to force them to move rather than player moving

[prime nova]

I wonder what they should do with blast diffusions

[hoary hinge]

i think they just want it to suck now

[mild brook]

let magma tempest crit on the initial hit

[prime nova]

Make an enemy explode for extra AOE damage at the end of a combust or something

[fierce phoenix]

What if detonate is a followup on combust

[foggy canopy]

Moving a boss always felt clunking happy to see it remove

[prime nova]

great minds think alike

[mild brook]

critting on all hits is too OP, but critting on 1 of 8 hits wouldn't be too op

[fierce phoenix]

Which makes it deal aoe around a combusted target

[main totem]

For what it's worth, I'm not inherently worried about the cost if that makes sense. It's more that it feels shit to use as an ability to me and doesn't relate to my skills or lack thereof for certain bosses

[winter lynx]

as a revo++er removing the slaughter walk is music to my ears XD

[main totem]

I can make the money back no problem

[fierce phoenix]

The newspost doesn't state how much hitpoints sanguine charge will cost, could that get added?

[main totem]

Does it feel kinda bad and am I having a knee jerk reaction? Absolutely I am

[mild brook]

it still generates stacks, I just tested

[formal ibex]

I’m not trying to have a go mate or be rude I’m rubbish at communicating online lol

[main totem]

I acknowledge this, but to gut the entirety of AOE magic is very off-putting

[main totem]

I am too man, it's okay

[valid kelp]

Living death not costing adrenaline 💀 ☠️

[main totem]

I do struggle a lot with articulating myself with certain things, so I feel ya

[deft blade]

Where are the necro changes i couldnt see them in the link?

[valid kelp]

20% pf max

[hoary hinge]

its mostly why gut an ability that is an unlock from an endgame boss to have it replace a level 37 ability with no other reqs?

[low yarrow]

We dont wanna commit to changing any items that interact with a skill while still figuring out what is being done with the default skill, we can update the boots a little later

[valid kelp]

Of*

[mild brook]

there are none

[deft blade]

Oh thought j saw some one saying something bout necro

[prime nova]

there is one - death skulls without zuk cape is now 60% adren

[formal ibex]

There are Necro changes

[fierce phoenix]

That base hp or max hp?

[rapid swallow]

i like that youve added mechanics that nerf revo++ with imbues, bloodlust and runic charge

[astral creek]

I haven't been following the beta very closely.
How are the ring of vigour and other adren-saving effects impacted?

[valid kelp]

Max 💀

[formal ibex]

Revo shouldn’t be nerfed… on mobile players are forced to use due to limited bars and some players just struggle to keep up so revo helps them…

[mild brook]

unchanged, although slightly better for melee in this version of the beta since several abilities got reclassified as Ultimate

[prisma viper]

Now combat accuracy is being phased out, what's happening to the Ring of Kinship's customisations that boost combat accuracy in Daemonheim?

[formal ibex]

It’s a game meant to be fun so this allows those players to engage more

[deft blade]

Acroll bit up jmod stated items wont be changed for the time being due to not knowing what the future of all this chanfes will be

[formal ibex]

Unless they add extra ability bars to mobile we will always struggle lol

[mild brook]

accuracy is still present and still means a lot, it just doesn't let you miss completely

[rapid swallow]

yea mobile combat is its own issue

[formal ibex]

I don’t think it’s fair to punish players using mobile, it should be as equal as it can be and changes defo can be made to improve mobile experience with PVM… saying that I did manage zuk and some other bigger bosses on mobile but it’s tough lol

[main totem]

I don't know what the stance on this would be, but I don't exactly fancy going full manual for something as small as a slayer task either 😂

[fierce phoenix]

Anti synergy with tank gear feel weird for blood magic, but it could slot as glass cannon for it

[rapid swallow]

but i personally really dislike what revo++ has done to the wider pvm scene with mainly afk bossing and many players not learning how combat works

[hoary hinge]

imagine doing a mobile zuk and then getting detonate as a drop lol

[main totem]

This I agree with for pvm 100%, but slayer? throw me a bone here at the very least

[rapid swallow]

oh yeah

[cedar mortar]

🙏

[deft blade]

Afking is vital for some bosses man, i dont see the point in actively
Killing a single boss thousands of times for log

[formal ibex]

But loads of high end bosses do have lackluster rewards 🤷

[astral creek]

I may have to start using the cannons again

[rapid swallow]

aoe bars should be almost close to max efficiency rotation-wise wkth revo

[main totem]

I can't tell if this agrees with me or not ngl, but it's also still early af for me 😅

[formal ibex]

I do wish we could have abilities triggered by a certain stack in buff

Would help

Maybe OP 🤷

[rapid swallow]

this is like only really true for the osseous jail cell keys

all other bosses are not afkable or have drops you dont need and/or are common enough to get manually

[cedar mortar]

As a big fan of the slayer skill, I agree with you ^^

[main totem]

ah okay

[deft blade]

There are plenty of afkale bosses? All gwds 1 and 2 are afkable even in hardmode

[hoary hinge]

ig thats fair if they want the main reward to be the cape and not the loot, even tho they specifically made it have loot to make it replayable

[valid kelp]

Runic charge seems great now, but now i only have Dragon breath (and tendrils ☠️ ) in my auto bar, everyone else costs adrenaline or its time-sensitive (next attack or next ability). So many pseudo thresholds in mage too.

[hoary hinge]

just a hm angle now

[prisma viper]

Sorry, I didn't phrase that properly. I meant chance to hit rather than accuracy. The customisations on the Ring of Kinship all say "Increases chance of hitting with (X) weapons" which implies decreasing chance of missing - Presumably this will soon mean they increase damage rather than reduce chance of failing to hit?

[main totem]

To be fair, what collection logs are mandatory for the standard gameplay experience?

[deft blade]

Even rasial and vorksath are afkable nowna days

[formal ibex]

Guess this is what’s good about betas and listening to players - jagex ain’t perfect and make mistakes and tbf it’s not seeing them try new things

[rapid swallow]

they frankly shouldnt be imo

[formal ibex]

Atleast they are now listening

And take out feedback on board

They coulda just made the update and said deal with it lol

[agile ether]

Remove ghost heal or give the same love to all styles plz

[deft blade]

True, but bosses like corp or daga kings im ok with being afk seeing as to how many hours it takes for their logs is unbearable

[hoary hinge]

thats just true

[formal ibex]

Not everyone’s gonna agree on stuff

Can’t please everyone lol

[formal ibex]

I mean melee has vamp scrim

Sorry tagged wrong name

[sage umbra]

Can we please move away from each style having an empower ability? Gale Shot, Runic Charge, and now Pressing Blow..

I thought we were trying to make the styles feel unique, and not fall into the same play patterns.

[formal ibex]

Tbf all styles have a healing method

[rapid swallow]

corp is another issue entirely, along with the rex rings being a very odd decision to include 10 of the respective dk ring

[mild brook]

that'll be a leftover from before the accuracy changes. I believe the effect they currently have is to inrease your accuracy stat, thus increase your damage potential, just like any other effect that increases accuracy. Like salve ammy.

basically, the tooltip of what they do is outdated.

[deft blade]

I hope they dont make healing for the other 3 it would definetly ruin the game lol

[formal ibex]

Sara gods word is good in a EOF for prayer and heals alongside vap scrim

[rapid swallow]

as for pets and green log nobody is forcing you to get those

[thin monolith]

Please add a free-to-play BETA world so we can test these changes with all of this game modes limitations. Trying to mimic what it would be like for free-to-play isn't the same as actually being limited. Currently:

• Certain armour suddenly jumps up several tiers because there's a higher tier member variant.
• Poison is active which isn't a thing in the free game.
• Additional monsters are added to the Wilderness and various other locations.
  The free-to-play community would like to provide the best possible feedback and the above points is just a tiny selection which prevents us from doing so.

[deft blade]

Prooves my point even further, do you wanna actively farm rex for hundreds of hours for reavers?

[rapid swallow]

having bossing be an afk activity is a band-aid fix on an underlying issue

[north quest]

r they gona adress switches

[hoary hinge]

the underlying issue was there were too many b rings and they wanted to sink them to make them valuable again

[rapid swallow]

sweeping issues with game design under the rug by making them convinient is how we ended up with silverhawks

[mild brook]

in what way?

[north quest]

range arrows and eofs

[idle oriole]

I’m begging you, PLEASE do not turn melee into another stack management style

[formal ibex]

Stack managements fine if buff bar wasn’t so bad

[rapid swallow]

job guages when

[formal ibex]

Necro sort of fixed this with visuals on character

[deft blade]

As the game progresses you learn pvming early and mid, once you reach end game you shouldnt ne forced to sit hundreds of hours for logs

[mild brook]

and they then proceeded to not implement it for anything else stack related

[hoary hinge]

high key would rather have a buff bar rework than a avatar rework

[formal ibex]

Ikr

lol

Same haha

[rapid swallow]

nobody is forcing you to get log tho

its not needed for any progression

[mild brook]

A log is an achievement, which comes with a certain amount of luck and perseverence

[main totem]

I asked this earlier but nobody replied, but what collection log(s) are required for the standard gameplay experience?

[mild brook]

and if you're an iron, that's a restriction you chose to play under#

[hoary hinge]

like any "progression" is conditional on your goals completely

[main totem]

Are they required to level up? For a quest? Anything?

[sullen cloak]

none

[main totem]

Exactly

[sullen cloak]

besides maybe doing archaelogy collections

because they are cool

[hoary hinge]

its runescape bro there is no standard experience

[main totem]

The only way clogs are mandatory are if you're an iron

[hoary hinge]

most standard experience is never bossing at all

[main totem]

?

[hoary hinge]

have you never interacted with people in the game?

[main totem]

I don't think you understood what I asked if that's your conclusion

[hoary hinge]

your question didnt make sense because there is no standard runescape experience

[surreal coral]

Let's keep in mind nothing is mandatory. It's just a game

[rapid swallow]

even then, the thing holding back the green log is usually a pet drop

[prime nova]

This is a feedback channel not a debate channel guys

[main totem]

Yeah I'm not entertaining that, considering how disingenuous that reply is

[formal ibex]

Also a reminder PVM isn’t the sole
Purpose of the game, there is a lot more to this game than pvm

[main totem]

I've already said my pieces for magic

[hoary hinge]

this

[rapid swallow]

my main feedback is like reinstate som form of slaughter-walking and integrate bloodlust more into melee

[surreal coral]

bloodlust is melee only right?

[rapid swallow]

as well as giving ranged and mage hp restoration options that dont rely on outside factors like auras, spells etc

[rapid swallow]

ye

[foggy canopy]

Why

No

Slauther walking feel clunky

Happy to see it died

[rapid swallow]

also are defensive abilities/shields/defenders going to be looked at?

[rapid swallow]

i liked the skill expression it added to lower level melee

[foggy canopy]

Some boss are not even walkingable

[main totem]

Honestly, with how much slayer I do as one of my 'when in doubt' activities, I just want to know about the future of aoe magic

[foggy canopy]

What do you mean by that

[hoary hinge]

i think they are trying to walk away from that generally and make it approachable

[foggy canopy]

" i like walking slayer mobs"

[rapid swallow]

im talking about bossing mainly

[foggy canopy]

What are you doing with the boss that can't move

[royal shale]

Combust doesn't need to have an 18 second cooldown now that it's not extended by Sanguine Charge. Plus the CD is now longer than the wand spec buff, so if you accidentally combust first then spec your Conflagrate buff will run out before you can Combust again.

[royal shale]

Like half of them lol

[rapid swallow]

then slaughter is situationslly not useful

and i dont use that ability at that time

[hoary hinge]

thats the skill expression

[foggy canopy]

Ok so nerf melee for half the boss so melee still have is " expression"

[rapid swallow]

huh

[foggy canopy]

The skill impression of melee was its to bad to use it anywhere

[rapid swallow]

huh

[hoary hinge]

no it was good at walkable bosses

[rapid swallow]

have you actually like used melee

[foggy canopy]

[foggy canopy]

Yes

And I'm happy to see slauther being good without walking the boss

[rapid swallow]

there are a lot of other ways to spend adrenaline and gcds if slaughter isnt usable to its fullest extent

[foggy canopy]

Even with the ability remove in the beta ? I ditdn see alot choice

[rapid swallow]

weapon specs

[royal shale]

We still don't have emberstaff or varanus or dclaws at the weapon traders.

[foggy canopy]

What weapons spec

[hoary hinge]

lol

[foggy canopy]

Zgs , zuk z then what

[rapid swallow]

depends

[hoary hinge]

melee user tm

[foggy canopy]

Spawn de claws and the new dagger?

What a great combat experience

Suns , fsoa, spam armadyl battlestaff

Berserk, roar z spam dclaws or daggers

[rapid swallow]

yea dclaws is a good adren dump

i dont get what youre getting at

[foggy canopy]

Idk , feel like moving a boss is useless and bad gameplay experience inna game where it's clunky

[hoary hinge]

thats fine its just an opinion

[foggy canopy]

Move one square , Rago go for a walk around the room and kill everyone

[formal ibex]

Especially on mobile haha

[rapid swallow]

its prob one of the less clunky things in the game

[mild brook]

doesn't look like it, maybe when we get a 120 defence update it will be

[rapid swallow]

if you know how npc movement works

[formal ibex]

Most new players won’t know though

[foggy canopy]

Did you ever went to vorago

[rapid swallow]

jagex.... give us a real tank role and viable shield camping and my life is yours

[foggy canopy]

That boss is a joke to walk it's like a dice

[rapid swallow]

yea, usually MT

[rapid swallow]

its the same pathfinding as any step-under

[mild brook]

vorago minion tank, now there's a new strategy

[foggy canopy]

@rapid swallow can we say together greater barge need to remove the wait thingny

[royal shale]

No elite tectonic or regular sirenic or kerapac gloves or magic raksha boots at the armor traders

[rapid swallow]

sorry ff14 brained, mt as in main tank

[mild brook]

fair enough

[rapid swallow]

i personally saw it as recompense for when melee has forced downtime due to mechanics

like if you cant safely hit the boss you get the gbarge buff

ofc the time could be shortened

[foggy canopy]

Or remove

[elder musk]

Trying the new magic in masterwork I'm getting about 200k DPM in the beta (previously was about 208k DPM in live), about 300k DPM with Tumekens + FSoA (previously 230k), and about 320k DPM with Tumekens + FSoA + using the spec and some manual abilities (previously about 310k DPM).

Baseline feels around the same as live but likely a lot more forgiving, end game gear with revo++ felt a lot more powerful than in live (although my live numbers may be out of date) . end game gear with manual input also around the same average but is very inconsistent with swings of high damage.

• I'd have expected a bigger increase in damage from live since my magic is now 120, although this may be because magic spells scale up to level 100 damage only.
• Love the changes to omnipower (60% without Zuk capes) and runic charge (nerfed SW, buffed CB).
• Magma Tempest was bad last beta and somehow even worse now. It seems it will only exist for slayer trash.
• Smoke Tendrils are a noob trap, not requiring adrenaline makes them better for high end players and differentiates them from asphyxiate but the pay off for crits aren't until level 90+ and with this dealing damage to self you'd never want to touch it without those pay offs.

[rapid swallow]

and have an alternate trigger

[tulip belfry]

I haven't tried the changes yet, did they do anything to address the adren gaining outside of sun/tsunami or essence corruption stack gaining with the changes?

[rapid swallow]

but its like a good concept

[royal shale]

It's funny they give us 6 dyes for EOF then don't give us the spec weapons for magic and melee...

[hoary hinge]

rip magma tempest fr

[formal ibex]

I paid a 1B for MT lmao so funny seeing how things change over time

Price ya pay on a game that updates regularly

Same with mage DW weps lol massive price drops

[hoary hinge]

at least t95 dw is still fun

[mild brook]

GBarge is a tradeoff, you spend 8 ticks not attacking and then later you save 4 ticks on a channeled ability. It pairs well with berserk, since using berserk is by itself 3 ticks of not attacking. So you are spending 5 ticks before berserk of not attacking to save 4 ticks inside berserk, which is well worth the tradeoff.

Plus anytime you are forced to go off for mechanics its a nice bonus.

[foggy canopy]

Ik but in the past melee was a bit lackbuster for dps compare to afsoa rotation

[rapid swallow]

maybe beserk could immediately ready it imo

[foggy canopy]

I walays thought the waiting time 8 tick not attacking could compensate

[upbeat field]

If zerk is going to sort of rely on meteor for alot of its endgame dmg rotation, should we consider changing flurry from reducing cd to increasing duration of zerk by 1tick per hit? Zerk cd reduction kinda feels like a nonexistent buff if u dont wanna zerk til your meteor is back anyway. To counter this we could take the zerk timer boost off of havocs

[mild brook]

that's not necessarily something that should be fixed by changing GBarge though

[formal ibex]

Can we get beta on mobile please 🙏 doesn’t seem to load.

[grizzled goblet]

I thought this was supposed to make combat easier, not add even more stacks (bloodlust) to keep an eye on..?

[minor sluice]

if magic is going to 120 shouldn't spells change to scale to 120 now?

[valid kelp]

Can you send your bar in beta for revo++ mage?

[foggy canopy]

Good point

[royal shale]

Sonic wave is still getting consumed by 0 cost abilities btw, they said they fixed that bug but I guess not

[upbeat field]

They qlways scale up to your weapon at the highest anyway

[elder musk]

Spells damage scale based on the spell, so the existing spells would still only scale to 100 but new spells could scale beyond that.

[formal ibex]

If they fix buff bar stacks isn’t an issue… moving buffs around and making them vanish sucks so bad

[upbeat field]

And since we only have t100 weaps

Yea what perseus said

[royal shale]

Spells scale damage to your weapon tier, your magic level scales damage separately.

[formal ibex]

Stacks should show separately to main buff bar

[minor sluice]

i see

[formal ibex]

Gets so lost

[mild brook]

Spell damage has always been capped by your magic level or weapon tier, whichever is lower. So until they release t100+ magic weapons, there's no need.

[formal ibex]

Or make it like Necro where the stacks show on player visually

[minor sluice]

certain stacks should have visual cues like necro, and they should prioritize and group buffs

[elder musk]

It's def fixed...

[minor sluice]

like campfire bonus, why is that anywhere near the front of the line?

[minor sluice]

elder ovld salve having 5 separate buffs is nuts

[formal ibex]

lol yeah

[valid kelp]

Ty

[acoustic basin]

hi

[formal ibex]

I see spells consuming runes different to abilities

[acoustic basin]

How so?

[frank cedar]

My concern with this change is that deto was the only 'normal' unlock out of those, granted looking at it from an Iron pov but this removes the AOE until you can do raids (time locked with rewards), Zuk (hope you get an early codex), or Gchain (again hope for codex) to increase the amount of targets you can hit. Whilst I agree they sit in an odd spot together it feels weird removing the only one that people actually get from the magic levelling.

[formal ibex]

Not sure tbf maybe cause I see the spell book and ability book as separate things

Might be just cause I’m used to spells costing runes for 25 years lol

[acoustic basin]

But why is breathing fire free, but throwing a fire ball not free?

[formal ibex]

I don’t know >.< my brain just says they are separate haha

[royal shale]

@low yarrow sonic is still removed by 0 cost abilities and doesn't work with special attacks

[acoustic basin]

mm.. It makes playing mage feel weird though. Like, I can get around rune-less. In a world that establishes runes are a necessity for magic.

[formal ibex]

If abilities used runes the cost for mage would shoot up

If they remove rune cost then runes have no purpose … it would just be scape lol

[acoustic basin]

Also, anyone else feels like Magic-style is awkwardly melee focused? I feel like I can't get by throwing ranged spells without my character's abilities wanting them right up in the face of the enemy i'm fighting.

[coarse stag]

Magma tempest or corruption blast should get a "lesser" variant earned on leveling if you want deto gone

[formal ibex]

I like Necro rune use.. so for utility type stuff it has a cost, maybe mage could do something similar I dunno I’m so dumb it’s unreal lmao

[noble brook]

mage does.. its just that most mage utility isnt.. well.. used

[acoustic basin]

that's also a concern. But right now we don't have the best of both worlds. We just have a confusing design mix.

[noble brook]

to be fair, you're also a very powerful mage (and depending on where you are in the quest chain, the world guardian), its somewhat acceptable (though it would be an identity loss)

[acoustic basin]

Maybe abilities for mages should be more focused on increasing potency of spells, instead of giving us new free spells that are much more visually impressive than the ones in the spell book.

[formal ibex]

I like we can trigger spells easier on ability bar tbf

I hated using other spells as switching was so clunky especially on mobile

[noble brook]

look at it this way

[formal ibex]

Spells books are a mess tbf 🤷

[noble brook]

combat magic is basicaly rune-less by now, but all the support/skill stuff still uses em

[formal ibex]

I don’t even use some spell books as cba to keep switching

Maybe they could have a new custom spell book that uses runes to power it so you can have more freedom.. like livid farm spell reward but more choice or that might be OP lol

[noble brook]

i always just sit on lunars and use spellswap as needed, but im also a melee main

[acoustic basin]

to me the "rune" in "runescape" is pretty important though... and I don't think rune refers to rune armour. 😂
It's part of the magical identity of the world!
Runescrafting as a skill was so revolutionary because lore-wise it meant they had rediscovered how magic was brought to the world and used by people. Now it's not even needed, unless you want to teleport. But the lodestone network also made that reduntant (sorta).

Right now I don't feel good playing magic user. It's just a flashier melee fighter with weaker armour.

Maybe the Beta 2 will change my mind.

[noble brook]

well technicaly it has to do with the lore how runes come from the early ages and we learned to harness em and alla that, so its more about the idea of them existing, but again, its why i brought up the idea that rune-less combat would be pretty big on the identity loss

but then again, BACK when i still used mage (melee main) i mostly used staves that gave free runes anyway

esp those level 82 limitless staves

[acoustic basin]

yeh... I see what you mean

[noble brook]

last time i used runes for combat was when i trained in the abyss with blood spells 💀

[low yarrow]

Chain will be a very solid aoe in your earlier levels alongside DB

[formal ibex]

What if runes charged your wep? Rather than consumes per spell and consumes from weapon? Or is that the same thing lol

[noble brook]

man i wish we got more aspects though..

[viscid horizon]

Does MW Spear enhance bleeds now?

Does Rage Stacks (or whatever it's called) get consumed or does it build up the entire time and just persist?

[noble brook]

i feel like thatd just create another issue, since most people already augment, so now you require both divine energy AND runes to power it?

itd also prolly require reworking EVERY single staff to be "chargeable"

[formal ibex]

This is why I don’t design games haha

[noble brook]

the way it reads is that it consumes, as it says it empowers your NEXT attack

hence why the other 2 skills give you max stacks

[weary current]

I felt like magic and melle adren accrual is not quite right. it still seems slower than necro making it slower to play through.
Melee doesnt feel like the abilities tie into each other. - visually and mechanically
Still lacking sustainability - eating more food-etc than necro which slows down combat and makes things more survive focused

[noble brook]

the way it reads is that theyre basicaly the melee version of souls or necrosis

[royal shale]

Gloomfire spec is considerably worse than snapshot outside of natural instinct+adrenaline imbue (shadows), legatus emberstaff is about the same efficiency as wild magic now except it doesn't even roll crits twice.

[formal ibex]

I think jagex just needs to remake entire game from scratch 🤷🤣 it’s so messy fixing things lol

[elder musk]

Skimmed over the changes to ranged with gales duration being increased and corruption shot being changed to still deal damage over time but a way that fits ranged more and makes it less a copy of magic and love both.

My only feedback from the previous beta was regarding gales duration and corruption shot changes seem (on paper) like a good change. Imo ranged feels finished.

[weary current]

absolutely loved necro death ult reductions - felt like melee bereserk should be reduced

[noble brook]

@low yarrow is there any chance we can remove the lifesteal cap from the vampyrism scrimshaw with vampyrism aura being removed?

the masterwork greatsword already has an uncapped 2% hp steal but the scrimshaw/aura are capped at 200.. and 5% of your attack these days is ALOT more than 200

so changing it to uncapped 2% would feel really nice for a survivability boost (esp since tmwork isnt.. very optimal these days) and havoc are quite low on defence

[royal shale]

Aura's actually capped at 50 for hits above 1000 lol, you basically don't even notice it single-target

[noble brook]

bruh.

[grizzled goblet]

so what does zuk cape do now? (im not able to log in)

[noble brook]

just the bonus damage

[prime nova]

the same as it did before - buff the spells

[noble brook]

so like overpower hits twice

[viscid horizon]

Honestly not the worst.

[formal ibex]

Adds extra hits

[noble brook]

deathskulls hits more often

etc

[clever stag]

Everything it did just not the adren thing

[frank cedar]

Chain sits in the single target drag in upkeep afk area, not really an AOE in the same way. I can see why it might feel like that fits the same thing but it isn't an 'area' ability, especially when you can't increase the number of targets until you have gchain. This is the same as DB being just a cone. The other styles have the aoe with quake, hurricane, bombardment as part of levelling and so this just feels a bit weird. Guess we will see how it fits but overall feels like a loss for magic without buying upgrades as a main or getting lucky as an iron.

I would also imagine that deto was less used as it can't be triggered by revo so would have been left off bars by those who didn't activate any abilities.

Thank you for the reply though 🙂

[valid kelp]

Necro living death is a bug or is this for us to test how it would look?

[viscid horizon]

You know, if Zuk Cape no longer reduces adrenaline, and Ultimatums perk take over that slot now? Maybe reduce even further for Ultimates in general?

I know this is a "Bloat" reduction thing, but would be nice for there to be three sources or a side upgrade until people unlock Vigour Ring as a passive.

[royal shale]

I have ultimatums and zuk cape, they don't stack in beta yet

[noble brook]

i thought they never did? or am i dumb

[royal shale]

They never did, but they should

[viscid horizon]

Is it bad if I don't agree with GChain getting a damage reduction there?

[mild brook]

when is chain ever used for the damage it does itself

[low yarrow]

Which bit is a reduction?

[viscid horizon]

Ed's. Maybe Telos if the minions are that many.

General aoe training.

[formal ibex]

Can we please get beta on mobile azanna…?

[elder musk]

I've noticed a couple of bugs. Unarmed combat doesn't trigger any auto-attacks so you just stand staring at the target (this was in the previous beta too).
When switching ability bars if the bar I'm switching to has blank spaces those spaces will be filled with any abilities that were in those slots on the bar I switched from. I noticed this when switching to ranged which auto-switched my bar but because some ranged abilities are gone they got filled with magic ones. Switching back and forth a few times fixed it.

[royal shale]

Azanna, the bug with Sonic being consumed on 0 cost abilities is still there.

[formal ibex]

Be mucho appreciated 🙏

[viscid horizon]

Normal Chain is listed as 75% mirrored damage, GChain gets reduced to 50%.

[low yarrow]

its beta, bugs exist and have been reported

[low yarrow]

Yeah think about it, chain is a 75% reduction while gchain is only a 50% reduction, so its a 25% damage increase

[viscid horizon]

Wait. Am I wording bad?

[noble brook]

yes

you have it backwards

[viscid horizon]

Rip.

[noble brook]

instead of reducing the damage by 75% on the next hit

it only reduces it by 50%

[formal ibex]

I misread it tbf lol

[foggy canopy]

Do you think you could remove the waiting for gbarge use for melee ? Would be much easier to use and explain to new player

[sly pike]

I think this hasn't been mentioned, the gloves of passage tooltip says it buffs pressing blow, but the tooltip of adaptative strike says it's being buffed by the gloves of passage while pressing blow's doesn't

[formal ibex]

Guessing no beta for mobiles >.< sorry to be demanding lol

But not sorry lol 😂

[minor sluice]

get home to your pc

[formal ibex]

My PC is broken and I prefer mobile lol

Mobile users shouldn’t be gate locked from beta testing…

[viscid horizon]

Invigorate is like +0.5% Adren per hit, right?

[formal ibex]

We are still part of the community haha

[mild brook]

I think that reading it like that is not going to be an uncommon problem. It could be reworded to be better, like "dealing -75% damage" or "dealing 25% of the abilities' damage"

[hoary cliff]

Just reading the notes ATM but; why has magma been ruined... 25% adren cost & still doesnt generate any adrenaline since it can't crit + increased cooldown..... 🤦‍♂️

[cedar mortar]

After using an Ultimate ability, you will retain 2.5-10% of your adrenaline bar.

[grizzled goblet]

Also I'd like an ingame checklist to see a list of passives and which ones I have unlocked

[mild brook]

big stronk aoe ability

[valid kelp]

(Super) Invigorate aura is 10% on ultimate

[analog whale]

As an end game meleer. I don't care about basic abilities k. I only use those to build adrenaline and boost crit chance. Don't mess with chaos roar , don't mess with berserk. Not everyone uses ezk where you hit damage ceiling 24/7 k. We use eof dragon mace dragon claws varanus mercy. You indirectly nerfed the lower gears power in end game situations. Dragon halberd still has a eof niche in AOE k. U nerfed that. U nerfed ezk now you're nerfing all the other eof weapons. If you're going to nerf chaos roar and berserk. At least let Zaros god sword work during berserk

[minor sluice]

so a 50% nerf but it works on all ults?

[formal ibex]

Plus I want to test beta on mobile to see how more manageable it is

[viscid horizon]

If not a rewording, then maybe bolding one of the words to emphasize things?

[minor sluice]

and more importantly it'd stack with vigour, conserv and zuk cape

[foggy canopy]

People at jagex hate melee

[mild brook]

that's inspiration aura

[minor sluice]

err

[formal ibex]

It does need to be clearer. As a moron and dumbass like me I struggle understanding tooltips lolol

[minor sluice]

well it'd stack with not zuk cape but ykwim

[analog whale]

They don't know how to use melee. Lol

[foggy canopy]

Suns-fsoa- Arma battlestaff peak gameplay

[gloomy stirrup]

Corruption blast giving 0 adren and combust using adren feels bad for synergising with t95 wand spec, which sucks.

[formal ibex]

Let’s just remove adrenaline all together 🤣

I dunno why I try make jokes

[sly pike]

i was thinking it could be interesting to see each style have their own resource

[analog whale]

We don't care about the damage mitigation during berserk . Because we push devotion during berserk that mitigate damage anyways. So what's the point. Inexperienced melee mods making changes to melee when they're not even end game meleers

[royal shale]

That's Inspiration aura, very similar name to Invigorate.

[grizzled goblet]

hmmpf I feel so lost now with all the changes...English is not my native language but I feel like I now need to speak encrypted, queens english (posh) to understand what all abilities do...

[foggy canopy]

What do you speak

Make berserk great agaij

What about

Just delite useless ability, and keep everything like it was

[cedar mortar]

RE: Adaptive strike

[viscid horizon]

What I would give to see some of that footage.

[royal shale]

They tried it in stream, go find it on twitch

[vagrant fossil]

Mellee felt underpowered
Nerfs berserk*

[elder musk]

Melee: last version of the beta I read abilities and made a bar which turned out to be terrible and it took a lot of changes to get somewhere decent with it. This time I've done the same and after reading the abilities was able to make an acceptable starting bar first time. I'm often sitting at low adrenaline but melee feels a lot closer but still needs work.

Ranged: in the previous beta my only feedback was imbune: gales was too short to feel meaningful, which has been increased in addition to corruption shot now having it's own identity. I'm very happy with where ranged currently sits.

Magic: changes to runic charge (SW/CB utilities and sanguine charge) are perfect and I'm very happy with where they each now sit. magma tempest still ain't it and arguably worse than previous beta, shadow tendrils are better but a level 65 ability that deals damage to yourself with crit payoff being at level 90+ seems an odd choice and I think needs something (maybe lower level crit payoff is the issue).

[vagrant fossil]

magma tempest shouldve been left alone, it was great for aoe

[minor sluice]

the fact that it doesn't crit because it behaves poorly with an item/armor combo is also bad

not saying it should be broken, but disabling crit is a bandaid move, fix it somehow

[formal ibex]

Why can’t it crit and just have a cap added?

[minor sluice]

idk

[formal ibex]

Cap based on level so it scales?

[hoary cliff]

What do igneous cape actually provide now?!?!???
Has anyone played to see?

[formal ibex]

Extra hits

For Necro

[cinder lily]

Melee stuff. So in summary...

• we do 12.5% less in zerk, but most abilities went up that much so we probably do a bit more inside zerk than before, then obviously more outside. OK. Fair.
• Hurricane is great
• pressing blow... the concept is fine. The execution feels really underwhelming. Just comparatively, it takes 4 and 40.8s minimum to get the buffs that are lackluster compared to runic for magic which is 30s. Yeah, its dealing damage and gaining adrenaline, but the rewards are just not there. Id bet this is never worth using over adaptive. 2 stacks might make it worth it.
• Meteor buff will obviously be much better. It being an ultimate is super helpful too.
• Pulverize being an ultimate is good too.

Idk. It solves some things, but its not there yet.

[elder musk]

Oh just found out shadow tendrils damage is mostly offset by soul split or eclipsed soul, ES is still 75 so later than ST but at least there's some pay off earlier than level 90+

[echo skiff]

Hasn’t style locked adren gains already been tried and wasn’t liked

[hoary hinge]

yes

[hoary cliff]

🤦‍♂️

[sly pike]

gloves of passage tooltip says it now buffs pressing blow instead of adaptative strike, did you notice this?

[echo skiff]

So we are going back to this concept again of style locked

[minor sluice]

i like how their goal was to simplify combat

but they recognize they've made magic more complex, not the other way around lmao

[hoary cliff]

Magic is like the easiest style to learn apart from necro.... Them making it (magma) cost adrenaline makes it harder to use... Tf is he talking about??

[hoary hinge]

idk i just react to the patch notes

[hoary hinge]

i feel like they just want to remove a bunch of abilities and not make it less complex

like they are just considering them as the same thing for some reason

[minor sluice]

if all you do is camp the same magic spell then yea magic isn't hard to learn, but the higher end spells synergize with abilities really well

the other styles you just don't need to put as much effort in

[formal ibex]

Tbf range is confusing with all the bolts and arrows lol

[hoary cliff]

Ranged? Is like.... Way more effort? No 🤣

[hoary hinge]

i wont comment on that but it does make me laugh when people say magic doesnt require runes

[formal ibex]

Can never keep up which is best to use where

[minor sluice]

don't magic abilities use 0 runes?

[formal ibex]

But you need to have a spell active which requires runes?

[minor sluice]

i didn't say spells didn't

[hoary hinge]

this plus some spells make your abilities cose runes

[elder musk]

They did, there's now a 20% chance they use runes like with ranged's ammo consumption

[hoary cliff]

Magic absolutely costs runes.... I go through loads? Wdym

[hoary hinge]

you just cant use magic at all without runes

[formal ibex]

You can’t do any ability without a spell so they do require runes to use abilities

[viscid horizon]

Just saw that Quake isn't weapon locked.

Cheers.

[viscid horizon]

Depends on the Spell you're using. Things like Incite Fear or Exsanquinate absolutely tear through runes.

Same with Blood Spells and the like if/when their effects proc.

[formal ibex]

Can we have rune pouches have no cap… like Necro so we can add more than 16k runes

[minor sluice]

don't those only use runes when you cast the spell though

[formal ibex]

Water runes go brrrrrr

[hoary hinge]

that would be so good

[minor sluice]

and yea technically you only tear through water runes

i replace any othe rune far less

[elder musk]

No it's a 20% chance on any ability now

[hoary hinge]

yeah but you still use them

[main totem]

exsanguinate stops using runes after you reach 12 stacks, but when wrack and ruin is used, it goes back to using runes to build stacks again until you're back to 12

Rinse repeat

[hoary hinge]

thus magic needs runes to use

[minor sluice]

ok so beta changed how it works then

[elder musk]

The beta doesn't have wrack or ruin and the current version the stacks aren't consumed

[main totem]

I know

I was referring to live game

[elder musk]

Does exsanguinate in live use runes on every ability until the 12 stacks makes it free?

[main totem]

To my knowledge, yes

[viscid horizon]

It exists as Runic Charge+ or whatever its proper name is.

At least last iteration, it still empowered Combust alongside whatever effect you decided to use.

[main totem]

I can double check for you later if you need/want me to

[signal helm]

idk bro i never tested

[elder musk]

Yeah previous version sucked because the stacks were consumed and were only any good if you were using combust.
The current beta version at 12 stacks runic charge is turned into sanguine charge which has a cool down of 20s vs 30s and deals 20% of your max HP to you, keeping you at the 12 stacks.

20% max HP for a 10s reduction sounds a bit steep, but in theory is really good and thematic

[viscid horizon]

Also like that G(?)Flurry gains Stun-Bind properties when Empowered.

Btw does Berserk not refresh Fury anymore or is that just missing text?

[zinc carbon]

Did something happen to swiftness?

[cinder lily]

Nope. So that sucks. Overall this is probably a buff from the prior beta, but not by much. Passage affecting adaptive made them competitive with cinderbanes.

[zinc carbon]

false alarm

I can't tell what is doing more and less damage with range

[limpid mulch]

Can someone explain to me how nerfing gales will make it more impactful?

[zinc carbon]

To be fair, the 8 deadshot hits do make it better

But casting gales feels way more boring now

[limpid mulch]

Perhaps deadshot is a little better but it doesn’t fix the adren problem range has now

[zinc carbon]

The winds of gales don't feel very searing :p

[royal shale]

Okay, t95 wands are starting to work again now that I'm playing "completely burns" instead of "mostly crit build plus burns". I feel like I have just enough adrenaline to wand spec, corruption blast, and Combust on cooldown, but there's still no synergy with Sunshine or adrenaline generation like Tsunami.

[limpid mulch]

Range will be an xbow switch scape with hydrix bolts sim

[zinc carbon]

Na range has waaay to much adren rn

I think casting imbue shadows gave me like 40 adren XD

with deadshot

[viscid horizon]

You know what would have synergy?

Metamorphosis.

:^)

[zinc carbon]

I can get a vod going but still mid-rot craft

[limpid mulch]

40% isn’t that much when dbow costs 65% tho

I guess they are trying to redefine range from being the special attack style (lots of eofs) to be the onhit style. And I might just have to curve my expectations

[zinc carbon]

Gloom bow is better for adren, 3 hits

Sec (10 mins) lemme get a vod :p

[limpid mulch]

Appreciate it

[zinc carbon]

https://streamable.com/lnil8u

This is the rot I'm working on

[median ferry]

I still dislike runic charge, and now its even more accessible by not draining blood stacks, not taking a GCD, and having reduced CD. I don't want to have to prebuild blood stacks every boss kill to make full use of runic charge off the start of a fight. DO SOMETHING ELSE with blood tithe stacks please!!!

[minor sluice]

I don't want to have to prebuild

am i the only one who just walks in and starts at whatever? lol

you don't have to do it

[signal helm]

i do (since necro)

[clever stag]

I've never cared to do prebuilds. I want to kill bosses not some random dummy

[viscid horizon]

^

Pre-builds is only for speeds or if you know it'll guarantee you phase skips.

Being 'sub-optimal' is totally fine.

[median ferry]

I am you bro.. i skip it most of the time. NOw that runic charge wont deplete the stacks though its like dps suicide to not utilize runic charge in this way

[astral creek]

Drop the mentality of powercreep pvm

[minor sluice]

yea that's the way i think too, i don't want to prebuild before every boss, just repeat and have fun its not some GM speedrun every single attempt

[deep robin]

We have places that clear certain type of prebuild with Sanctum

You could just put what the entrance there does, at wars retreat portal

[royal shale]

However, the caveat of “Kerapac’s Wristraps detonate combust but dragonbreath does more damage with combust active” still stands. It’s always more efficient to detonate the combust but it still feels off.

[median ferry]

IDK. I am gonna adapt to whatever they change. I want this update to happen big time. That's my opinion on runic charge in it's current form ^ hopefully they look at more going forward with 2 iterations to go. If not, I'll adapt.

[zinc carbon]

I wish I could skip rn 😭 not because I want damage but I want to know what ability isn't doing damage

[minor sluice]

i'm surprised runic charge got 3 buffs

it was already feeling good, it caught me off guard

[echo skiff]

Has anyone played with hybridding in the new beta?

[zinc carbon]

Will soon, I always do range melee vorkath

[elder musk]

If you used it with conc before you were probably coming off worse than not using it

[royal shale]

I’m scared to even try Dagannoth Kings with no hybrid adrenaline and no strong basics anymore…

[minor sluice]

because of the gcd?

[royal shale]

I say this having 6500 KC, I don’t think it’s going to work anymore with the changes 🙁

[minor sluice]

what have they changed to make bridding not work anymore for the context of this message? (i don't brid)

[elder musk]

GCD and no damage or adren gain from it
Most magic abilities are multi-hitters so one guaranteed crit wasn't super impactful

[royal shale]

The crit buff ultimates are no longer style-agnostic crit buff ultimates. They last 30 seconds each which is overkill for a single King but then the buff doesn't carry over to the next style like it used to.

[minor sluice]

ok i recognize this

grico no longer buffs mage adren gain

lmao

does it just like

cancel?

[royal shale]

I don't have grico on main, the crit buffs were just nice adrenaline generation across styles

It wouldn't work if I did, but I don't incredibly mind

[minor sluice]

i'm missing context, what does "carry over to the next style" mean

[limpid mulch]

With these changes I assume some combat achievement timers will be impossible.. is there any thoughts on revisiting timers?

[minor sluice]

is there a video or is it easy to explain

[fierce phoenix]

Would it be strange to give magic a "rain of fire 3x3" that's like the dragonwilds fire magic attack, with magma tempest enhancing it to a 5x5?

As a 'greater' version

Basically bombardment as a dot

[median ferry]

no. This would probably be a decent idea with the removal of detonate. Early mid game magic aoe is limited to chain and dbreath

[echo skiff]

So you could nami later in a mage rot and use it to start a melee rot then meteor then mage with meteor buff and just loop

[viscid horizon]

^

[fierce phoenix]

I'd still like to limit effects like that to specifically fire magic or something to limit general use ability bloat

[echo skiff]

People still pumping 600k+ zerks in beta

[pulsar kayak]

hi

[royal shale]

Oh sorry. At Dagannoth Kings, you bring one weapon for each style. You crit buff and kill the first King with style 1 in about 15 seconds, then equip your next weapon and kill the next King in 15 seconds with the first crit buff still active. Then equip weapon 3, crit buff, kill that King, equip weapon 1, and continue.

The issue I'm raising is that the adrenaline generation buffs no longer work across styles when you're switching styles faster than 30 seconds (which is basically only Dagannoth Kings but it's a valid concern).

[minor sluice]

oh ok ty

[echo skiff]

Cant do it now since adren gaining abilities are now style locked

[minor sluice]

ohhh

so you can't use range abilities (which had good adren gain) when holding magic gear

for ex

[tranquil beacon]

no you can still do that

[minor sluice]

how does the style lock work then

[tranquil beacon]

it's just the ults

[minor sluice]

oh

ngl having never seen hybridding i'm piecing this together with no visuals

[royal shale]

Tsunami doesn't generate adrenaline on ranged attacks, Imbue Shadows doesn't generate on magic attacks.

[echo skiff]

So meteor adren buff only works with melee weps equipped. And ranged adren buff is only ranged weps

[viscid horizon]

Side note: is Natty Instinct intentionally meant to not work with Meteor Strike's adren generation?

[minor sluice]

ohhh

[echo skiff]

No

[royal shale]

12% per tick is Varanus spam levels of adrenaline basically, which is what they are trying to change

[minor sluice]

what benefits remain for hybridding with this change?

other than "weak to this style" obv

[royal shale]

You can still start with mage, Sunshine, Tsunami, 30 second mage rotation, then melee gear, Meteor, Berserk, 30 second melee rotation, then magic again. Basically you get to always have a damage boost ultimate active by changing styles.

[echo skiff]

None atm. But the giga chads with 5heads will figure it out

It just won’t feel as fluent as it is currently

[raven junco]

isn't it still an excellent way to minimize downtime on damage boosting ults?

[echo skiff]

Yes just won’t feel the same because you can’t overlap the adren buffs.

[minor sluice]

if they go through with the ultimatum change, magic might be able to just cycle its own ults non-stop lmao

no wait turtling removes the bonus :(

[subtle arrow]

My feedback for magic:

• Magma tempest feels awful due to the adrenaline cost. It occupied a lovely purpose before. If the idea here was to get rid of threshold skills that compete with each other - isn't magma tempest with a cost just a new threshold skill that competes with other things? And ends up losing too.

• Combust still feels very lackcluster to be paying adrenaline for. It's basically a threshold skill competing with other skills, and loses every competition.

• Visual tedium of everything doing a "fake" cool down after using abilities still exists.

• Runic Charge doesn't feel as snappy as it did prior.

• Corruption blast not generating any adrenaline feels off.

• Greater chain feels weird not generating any adrenaline - feels off.

The threshold abilities haven't gone anywhere, just had their requirement % adrenaline lowered and had new ones added to the list. Which lose hard because of being so lackcluster and weird to pay adrenaline for.

[brazen stream]

Like the changes, especially hurricane not needing 7 enemies hit all t once now lol

[echo skiff]

Will we be getting a weekly beta update with feedback responses?. So we should get like 2 more changes before it goes live?

[fierce phoenix]

What if combust was a stackable dot, that cost 10% adrenaline

[flat rampart]

They've confirmed here will another update late next week

[echo skiff]

Hmm so much work to do for them

Good to see them trying and acting on feedback but

[tranquil beacon]

the lack of adrenaline gain on corruption blast and greater chain are to make them more situational and discourage them as filler in single-target combat
I think you generally misunderstood what they meant by removing thresholds

[zinc carbon]

Did they buff combust and dragon brath or

[subtle arrow]

All I am seeing is lowering the requirement to cast them down to 25% and cycling in new ones. That's still a threshold ability as I see it. Old ones you just needed 50% for and off ya went.

[tranquil beacon]

thats what they were removing

the "threshold" part

[flat rampart]

I think the beta closes on he 16th, so hypothetically next Thursday/Friday's would be he last beta update, but tbd I'm sure.

The big question is going to be is when is it "live-ready", which can be different than "perfect", but preferably minimizes breaking the game.

[subtle arrow]

Yea, so how is it any different to new ones with 25% requirement to cast?

[tranquil beacon]

it doesnt require 50% adrenaline to cast an ability that uses 15% adrenaline

[subtle arrow]

Yes, but the spirit of the concept remains. And adding it to magma tempest/combust feels very weird as neither is worth it and loses the competition.

[echo skiff]

I have my doubts it’s going to be fully polished by due date tbh. Probably need patch or 2 to fix things

[tranquil beacon]

the spirit of the concept does not remain at all, that was the concept, needing 50% adrenaline, that was removed, that's it.

[subtle arrow]

I beg to differ: while you have removed the moment of choice, the choice remains, and is still there in spirit. Abilities competing with one another.

[tranquil beacon]

I have no idea what you're talking about

[raven junco]

the point wasn't removing the choise

the point was increasing flexibility on when to make it

[wise wing]

hot take, stacks are a silly system

[subtle arrow]

"Do I cast A B C D" - which one is worse? - still the same concept in spirit. I see no real difference beyond it being a fluffier change. Outside of the "you need to be at this point in the bar to do it" - and some of the choices added to the list are a tad too weak to justify being on it ala combust/magma tempest.

[austere terrace]

Berserk damage increase being reduced by 25% but still only lasting 10s less than sunshine is nuts

[wise wing]

also is it just me that thinks melee having 2 skills is weird

[shrewd oriole]

Apart from pressing blow, zerk, and punish will there be other ways to generate bloodlust in the future? Its a cool concept and will likely need to be rebalanced a few times to get right but i think tying the stacks into 3 fairly slow abilities and needing 4 stacks to pop is a bit slow without other sources.

[wise wing]

penalizing a specific style for no reason

[raven junco]

the point of that was to make Berserk do the same damage as live when they buffed every single skills damage to make them better outside berserk

[wise wing]

remove the strength skill entirely or just make strength a damage modifier skill for all styles

[minor sluice]

strength buffing magic be like

https://tenor.com/view/regal-t-the-adam-project-ryan-reynolds-lightsaber-boom-gif-25097490

[coarse walrus]

call it power

[wise wing]

i mean it makes no sense lol

[minor sluice]

i agree i don't like that melee needs two skills either

[wise wing]

melee has to do 2x the training for no reason

and it doesn't give you anything +@ in return

i can understand why it hasn't been touched up on all this long but if we are going to have a table flipping change like this they might as well use the opportunity to fix that issue

[zinc carbon]

It doesn't feel like a fullstack system though, it feels more like the death spark thing from Necro? Like get to 4, then you get an assault buff

[solar bridge]

So is limitless being looked at? Or with removal of threshholds, is it only for def abilities now until you take the threshholds away frok those

[zinc carbon]

Then later you can go into like, punish assault

Flurry for telos stun

[wise wing]

interesting take

[median citrus]

Ranged and mage use ammo/runes because they attack from afar

[wise wing]

except that melee kinda does now with spikes albeit not a huge part of dps

[median citrus]

yes and now armor spikes too

[wise wing]

and yeah other styles do ranged attacks

[solar bridge]

Basically vital sparks are useless now

[tranquil beacon]

no they aren't

they're useless later

[wise wing]

so that take sounds more like a justification to resist change

[tranquil beacon]

and yes for the 500th time they're aware of limitless and thinking of solutions

[solar bridge]

Tell me 501th time

[tranquil beacon]

not like they need a justification, deleting strength is squarely in the "not happening" category all the way on the top of the jagex shelf

[flat rampart]

I mean, from my own experience the single best use of limitless has always been a panic Devotion, so that least there's that

[wise wing]

the new changes make limitless useless

[median citrus]

Why Melee is arguably the worst combat style

An extra skill to train, limited range, current berserk, and a gear/switch inflation.

An extra skill to train: No other combat style has an additional skill to train but melee does in attack and strength. An entire extra skill is not justified in melee not needing ammo. Melee doesn’t use ammo because it doesn’t attack from AFAR like ranged and mage do. Therefore, ranged and mage pay for their extra attack range WITH ammo. This justification is a fallacy. Therefore, all the extra skill does is give melee extra work to get the same with little to nothing in return.

Limited Range: Melee’s limited range makes it more suspectable to damage by enemies and can make content more difficult with melee attacks and more mechanics. (Jad, Raksha, Vermyx, Crassian Leviathan, etc.). Furthermore, melee is severely limited to the aoe damage it can do, notably when compared to the other combat styles which all have great aoe damage, but melee doesn't unless it has one of the few 2hander 2 tile range weapons that exist.

Current Berserk: While zerk does give double damage, it only lasts 20 seconds while all the other self-buff ultimates for the other styles last 30 seconds. This isn't counting that greater sunshine and deaths swiftness last 37 seconds. Melee also takes 50% more damage. Further, you gotta go out of your way (do greater flurry) to reduce the cooldown.

[median citrus]

Gear/switch inflation: Jaws of the Abyss, Abyssal scourge, Masterwork spear of Annihilation, Lengs, EZK, and Tumekens light. All of these things, notably weapons aren’t necessarily valuable to melee for their special attacks but for their passive effects.

Melee does not have anything other than weapons to add additional passive effects/buffs to synergize with weapons. Ex. weapons must synergize with other weapons or other gear like the Jaws of the Abyss helmet for additional effects. Unlike Ranged and magic that have weapons with passive effects and ammo and spells to synergize with those weapons. This of course leads to more switching of weapons in melee than the other combat styles. Ranged has bows and ammo, magic and necromancy have weapons and spells/incantations. This absence of an additional slot/item/consumable/whatever for melee to synergize with weapons has caused many of these problems.

[solar bridge]

Until they update def to remove thresholds

[minor sluice]

i wonder what it could even do that isn't a massive buff

[flat rampart]

But a simple fix is to update Limitless to provide a x% adren reduction on abilities for X number of seconds. This would have to happen in some form, or yeah- sparks become dead content.

[languid glen]

until they rework defensives to no longer require 50% adren too for the "thresholds"

[viscid horizon]

Most other Melee abilities have been boosted to compensate. Stronger outside of Berserk now, ~around the same level if not a little stronger based on what some people in game have been saying.

[tranquil beacon]

berserk is the only good damage boost ult

the others are awful

[flat rampart]

The inital idea was that bleeds act as a fake "range" for melee, but that was always kinda stupid.

[tranquil beacon]

well, kind of good

[wise wing]

so to give more explanation on this, I don't like stack system for 2 reasons

1. keeping track of stacks is a pain. you have to keep hunting for it on your buff bar.
2. we already have the adrenaline system, so why not use that

[tranquil beacon]

because of modifiers

putting everything on adrenaline means adding several more abilities

stacks act as modifiers to existing abilities

that means less buttons

[wise wing]

except that comes at a tradeoff

[median citrus]

I think a possible solution/benfit for melee could be better mobility.

While melee has limited range, it does have movement to make up for this. Barge, bladed dive, and the berserk abilities. Barge allows meleers to reach targets quickly, bind and hit them; bladed dive allows meleers to reach multiple targets quickly and do aoe damage; Berserk doesn’t limit meleers to be inside a 7 tile radius, it allows free movement.

Therefore, melee already has this movement combat style identity and it can be something to make up for its limited range. So, let’s make that better.

· Make bladed dive a 2hander ability too.

· Make Barge work like greater barge and remove the need to be out of combat for the damage over time effect. Greater barge can give players an additional Greater barge charge.

· Make it so we can leap from a distance when using Meteor Strike like bladed dive. I think the name meteor already implies this should be a thing.

Make it so melee channeled abilities are not interrupted while moving around an opponent. (Like how rapid fire isn't interrupted when wearing fleeting boots). Perhaps even increase melee tile reach when doing channeled abilities as to allow melee better movement. Could just be 1 or 2 extra tiles.

[tranquil beacon]

what, having to read?

[viscid horizon]

Honestly having messed around with it for like five minutes, I like the idea of Bloodlust being our 'empowered' system. I do think it either needs to be reduced to two stacks because of how long Pressing Blow takes to build up stacks OR we need to be allowed to get up to 8 stacks with Empowered abilities still consuming 4 stacks. Right now it kind of hurts getting up to 3 stacks and knowing Berserk is around the corner.

Is that on me for not doing my rotation right? Probably. But quality of life is quality of life.

[wise wing]

the hunting hasn't been reduced, it has just moved from the finger hunting keybind to eye hunting buff bar

[tranquil beacon]

that's considerably better

and even better when we get a real buff ui

and plugins

[wise wing]

so basically outsource the solution that the dev has had to slove to the players

[flat rampart]

I like all of these ideas very much; they wouldn't work well everywhere, but they do seem fun and unique

[zinc carbon]

You're using the stack system for extra combos. Like right now bloodlust stacks is zerk barge assault (bloodlust assault), then incentive for punish assault, bloodlust stack flurry stun. Kinda like Necro soul stacks but better and more utility

[tranquil beacon]

i just mentioned the buff bar

[wise wing]

except that's just going to become current buff bar v2

because we have 900 different types of stacks

[tranquil beacon]

oh if your problem is having to look at buffs at all instead of the fact that the current buff bar is a mess then yeah i can't help you

get better eyes i guess

[zinc carbon]

You don't gotta look at the buff bar for bloodlust stacks specifically but ye it will kinda clutter

[wise wing]

if your finger can't handle the 500 apm in the current combat system, that's your finger issue

[viscid horizon]

500 apm?

[tranquil beacon]

except it's the issue the devs agree with

sorry not sorry

[shrewd oriole]

Wonder if prayer and summoning will get combat abilities on their reworks / 120 updates.

[flat rampart]

Jagex training RS players to finally appeal to women

[wise wing]

i'm sure all skills will become 120 sooner or later

[wise wing]

dw that won't increase my chances of meeting a true gamer girl on rs

also can we please have defensives etc usable off cd

[wise wing]

actions per minute

[viscid horizon]

I get that, but 500 APM is kind of wild for RS.

Ohhhhh, they removed Punish's CD refund on execute.

But they did bring Barge back to 20.4s cd, so that's fun.

[limpid mulch]

Ah yes, melee lock all the timers 😄 Great direction for the game

[shrewd oriole]

As a near maxed filthy casual, i like the direction of melee. The reversion of some abilities to ultimates for vestments, the return of quake and a rebalance on dismember are all community driven results so its working. Less dependency on zerk is my favorite so far. Not a fan of the increased damage taken in vestments. I hope the balancing of actual damage numbers goes well, otherwise ill see it in the live game when we get there.

[winter lynx]

Out of curiosity, has anyone been doing any revo++ testing?

[main totem]

I've tried to

But can't find any good way to organize a bar

And every time I've asked about revo in here, it's been ignored

[tranquil beacon]

do your own napkin math

or experiment with a dummy and look at your dpm meter

[main totem]

I don't use any external shit

Where is this meter you speak of

Naturally in the game

[tranquil beacon]

in the game

turn it on

[main totem]

And I have been testing on dummies

Where in the in-game settings is said meter

[tranquil beacon]

turn on your runemetrics

[main totem]

Implying I have that

[tranquil beacon]

everyone does

its free in the beta

[main totem]

TIL

[elder musk]

Which style you want? I've got bars for each style where I think they're okay but won't claim they're amazing

[main totem]

Magic

[elder musk]

If you want a "bleeds build" one instead lemme know

[main totem]

Is this with IF being autocast?

Also yeah, would like to test an aoe setup too

[elder musk]

No this was using exsanguinate, incite fear I felt was only "needed" when using FSoA spec and more manual stuff for the extra adrenaline. It was okay without IF for revo++

[main totem]

I'll try both either way

Let me boot up my pc

[cinder lily]

As of now, building 4 stacks of bloodlust to heal 10% is a noob trap and a half. Honestly, 1 stack of bloodlust is probably worth the benefits it currently gives and we should be able to store up to 4 of them to spend on those abilities. Maybe even granting the current benefits per stack when consumed. Or if they really want this build up to spend, crank those rewards to the moon. For example, keeping the same abilities:

• Basic: Heals 30% HP and another 30% over 6 seconds.
• Assault: No cost & +30% crit chance
• Flurry: stuns and bind & has more healing.
• Hurricane: adds a 3rd hit and reduces by 6s/target.

I'm thinking, why doesnt the melee basic just have the heal as part of it all the time? Obviously not 10% hp, but even 3-5% is probably fine. Its not strong damage, it could be a recovery tool. Helps early game players mostly.

Magic can have active spell effects tacked onto it. Thats easy.

Ranged idk tbh. Ammo could trigger more often, but arrows dont really have this. Or it could just double the effect of Ammo. Bolts have twice the chance to proc and arrows get double benefit. 2 stacks for wen, double boosted by jas/ful, etc.

Necro could have a little something as well. Maybe a lesser version of whay omni grants, maybe every 7 basics one is doubled. Then omni can reduce this to 4 or something.

I get its basic, should be basic. But its also setting the identity of the style some. They could also be leveling benefits rather than immediately part of it. Could also increase as you level, but that seems convoluted. Just st like level 60 they gain these effects. They're weaker in damage, so it becomes a meaningful decision on what to use.

[wise wing]

That was obv just an arbitrarily exaggerated number to emphasize the (unhealthy) apm req that the current system imposes

[wise wing]

Turn necromancy into nekomancy that's what it needs

[hollow hill]

What's the apm req of the current system?

[wise wing]

Never really went out to extrapolate a figure, but my shot in the dark is typical high level bossing probably ranges between 50-200 depending on your playstyle/content

[cinder lily]

Im not getting the reference. Sorry. Lol.

[elder musk]

Nekomancy is cat magic

[wise wing]

That's just a pun that i make about necro all the time

[gray wraith]

pretty extensively tested new mage on beta and it still not only feels more complex but also worse. I could sit here and write a paragraph on how i would fix this new beta system as it seems the changes introduced more issues for zero reason, but my best feedback would literally just be to revert everything (at least for mage) to be as close to live game as possible 👍 i cannot see in any world where this new system is easier to learn than the live game either, so im pretty unsure what the purpose of all this dev time is even supposed to be for

[wise wing]

Nekomancy train neko girls to level the skill

[cinder lily]

Oh... im a dumbass. Makes sense now.

[hollow hill]

Don't worry, if you got thought out feedback it will get ignored anyways :^)

[jade stream]

PLEASE FIX MELEE

[elder musk]

My main feedback last time was the duration on gales for ranged felt too short, conc blast wasn't worth using on runic charge, and smoke tendrils was shit all of which have been addressed

[jade stream]

its so terrible!!!1

[gray wraith]

its over

[wise wing]

Lol

[jade stream]

remove this stupid bloodlust!! give us back old berserk!

its already the most difficult style to make work outside of berserk rotation

[fierce phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/mashle-dance-gif-9745779996362916675

[jade stream]

why would you gut it further and add the fluff to manage like necromnacy??

[hollow hill]

50-200
I wouldn't call 50 high apm, but I doubt you'll ever reach 200 with only 33 gcds per minute

[jade stream]

like seriously you're gonna kill melee

before it even gets a chance

its already 80% used for hybrid only

[wise wing]

50 is obv low end of the spectrum when you do full revo etc

I don't think 200 is that hard to reach

[jade stream]

melee is my favorite style by far! im begging you jagex if you dont fix this its gonna kill the melee style

at least delay it

[molten bison]

Meteor strike is an awfully designed ability. Between COE, vigour, and vestments it costs 5 adren to use and it gives you 300 back for doing nothing. Even if you don't have those upgrades, it's still 40 adren for 300. It doesn't interact or scale with anything else in the game. It just lets lower level players cast assault for 20s straight which is boring, and endgame players to EOF spam without any thought or variance which is also boring. Please take this one back to the drawing board

[jade stream]

delay it for a few months

[wise wing]

Since your spam clicking to move to a tile, eating food etc all counts i to apm

[cinder lily]

Its got issues for sure, but its actually going to be stronger than it was in the last beta, including inside zerk. The only real nerf it got in damage was passage gloves went back to a 10.2s cd which I find annoying too.

For example. If an ability deals 1,000 damage and its boosted 2x, it becomes 2,000. Easy math. If they drop the boost to 1.75 and increase the base to 1,250, is this better or worse than before? Ill let you do the math for the surprise.

[cerulean plaza]

I’ve spent a lot of time testing the new mage on beta, and it still feels both more complicated and less enjoyable. I could easily write a long breakdown of how I’d try to fix the new system, since the changes seem to create extra problems without any real benefit, but honestly my main feedback would just be to roll everything back (at least for mage) to something much closer to the live version 👍
I genuinely can’t see any situation where this new system is more approachable or easier to learn than what we currently have, which makes me question what all this development time was even meant to achieve.

[hollow hill]

You'd have to click 2 times every tick to reach that :>

[wise wing]

Ppl often spam click multiple times to move to a given tile, eat a fiid etc

[bronze parrot]

Does this dude even pvm 🤔

[jade stream]

i dont care about power it feels horrible and boring to use!!!

[wise wing]

Each of those inputs count as actions

[jade stream]

the basic attack thing is so dumb and clunky

it feels sooo delayed and dumb to use

no variation in combinations

just meteor and spam assualt

[wise wing]

Whether that's actually meaningful input is obv a diff story

[jade stream]

it benefits monotonous gameplay

as someone who thoroughly enjoys mid and end level pvm

on the daily

i can tell you theres enough monotnous gameplay going on

[hollow hill]

I can also click 1000 times every second, but this doesn't make it "imposed" apm

[dense root]

your wife must be delighted

[narrow spire]

tbh i still think they are missing the ball on melee. now it just seems we are going to pop an ulti to adren dump all of our over bloated adren costing abilities... same with the over focus on adding lifestealing abilities...

[hollow hill]

Too much apm, had to get multiple waifus 😔

[jade stream]

i just want melee to be brought to a place where it doesnt rely on burst damage

because it feels awful outside of that burst

[narrow spire]

imo - they should be focusing melee to work better with special attacks. theres like 30 of them across all the different weapons. putting in an empower that gives a free special attack cost and adding something that can copy special attacks that is accessible at lvl 60 would fix a ton of issues with the overall flow. its allows for complexity and
like say a dragons rage ability - where it can hold any of the dragon melee weapon specs. it gives room for EOF to still shine with high level weapon implements. but lets players choose do i need damage / aoe / acc boost / etc.

[jade stream]

its similar to live in that aspect

[wise wing]

Obv not 200 apm throughout the whole fight, but things like kiting very much require spam clicking just to make happen

[cinder lily]

Ok, fair. Im not sure about pre-end game, but other than some clunky interactions and anti-synergy id like them to smooth out, end game isnt horrible. Its at minimum about as good as live.

[jade stream]

in my opinion its slightly worse

its more damage just for an increased delay period of no burst

[wise wing]

Whatever they do, i hope they give it enough time to collect and implement feedback

[jade stream]

i cant imagine how that feels with no auras either

[cinder lily]

And thats fine. Do you have zgs?

[jade stream]

just throw 300% adren at us and say use it

yes i tried it

i usually dont use it

fights dont last that long unless its specific bosses

[wise wing]

We all know what happened with eoc1 when they didn't go through enough comminication and buffer timeframe

[jade stream]

i feel like they are scared to properly attack its weaknesses

because of ez kill

[cinder lily]

Ah you'll want to for sure. For long form dpm at least. Unless they reintroduce bleeds to fill between zerks.

Which bosses are you doing?

[jade stream]

at the very least because i know they probably wont change it anymore

i hope it gets delayed

and gets a third or fourth look

[wise wing]

Do whatever it takes to make the transition as smooth as possible, heck maybe even run old vs new combat live servers side by side for a limited time

[jade stream]

hm kera, trilogy, zamorak 50-500, solak, aod, rots

occasionally raids when i can get a team

[cinder lily]

A lot of those would benefit from zgs between zerks.

Like zammy, no. Or rots. But the rest would.

Cant comment on aod though.

[somber mural]

as somebody who is quite a pvm potato, i love meteor strike where it is now
you get so much adrenaline to have fun pressing all the big fancy abilities with

[upbeat field]

Can this apply to fury also?

[cinder lily]

The adrenaline part of meteor is good. I dont like it being tacked onto a big aoe still.

[chrome finch]

Adrenaline & Basics: Ranged feels limited with only 3-4 basics. Removing adrenaline gain from Corruption and Frag Shot feels clunky.

Ability Value: Standard Basic Attacks currently outclass Snap Shot and Binding Shot in damage and Bolg stack priority. Snap Shot needs a buff to remain a relevant threshold.

Ultimate/Imbue Nerfs: Imbue Shadow losing its damage hit feels poor compared to Tsunami/Meteor. The 5% crit buff doesn't compensate for the loss of the live-game 8% RNG crit + Nami switch.

EoF & Specs: Adrenaline costs make Dark Bow EoF unusable. Without SGB/ECB, the EoF is just a stat stick. Even with 100% ECB uptime, damage feels ~20% lower than live.

Risk vs. Reward: Ranged requires high effort and zero healing (ECB) to still deal less damage than Necro’s passive conjures and sustain.

Glaives & Snipe: Imbued Glaives deal too little damage for the GCD. Snipe feels okay, but being capped at 0–5 adren under Imbue feels like a punishment.

The Good: Deadshot redesign is excellent. Grico cooldown reduction is a great quality-of-life improvement for stacking.

Bug: Consistent disconnects occurring when using Smoke Cloud.

[upbeat field]

I think it works well since it allows for hurricane spam in aoe scenarios

[cinder lily]

Right, but it could be its own ability separated from meteor and do the same.

[upbeat field]

True

[cinder lily]

Would be cool but melee cant have nice things. If they did it they'd have to nerf melee somewhere else.

[somber mural]

some abilities have to pull double or even triple duty to reduce bloat, i don't mind it at all
but this certainly feels way better and more consistent than the crit stuff did especially when melee didn't have crit gear

in a 1v1 boss fight it doesn't really read as an aoe

[upbeat field]

Wym we had the warrior ring /s

[cinder lily]

And dagger spec

[upbeat field]

Dagger spec doesnt count if it ls been in existence for like 3 patches

[cinder lily]

Melee was definitely the least recipient of crit benefits beside necro.

[upbeat field]

Lmao

Tbh i wonder how dagger holds up in modern rotation

Or if something else beats it out

[pseudo hedge]

hai jaq

also these melee look great i think we're close to a breakthrough for the combat style, I'm interested in testing this stuff out myself to give my final opinion

[fiery gull]

(PART 1) MY OPINION AS A MELEE CAMPER (thousands of hours, melee first kill/camp if possible on everything even hm zuk on release/ hm nakatra etc.) (not from a bridder point of view) (mostly on feel of melee. numbers are easy adjustments)

IDENTITY: melee identity as a whole is just gone. it feels just like necromancy. too little abilities. (removing bloat = win / having abilities that do interesting fun stuff = win / having too little abilities that lack flavor = BIG LOSS) melee as a whole just feels the same and BORING. skill and complexity with melee is gone. 2h/dual wield identity also feels like a back pedal from the x2 hitsplat change months ago. melee is lacking 2h/dual locked abilities to really make choosing either one or using both rewarding and makes interplay within melee gone.

(PART 2) MY OPINION AS A MELEE CAMPER (thousands of hours, melee first kill/camp if possible on everything even hm zuk on release/ hm nakatra etc.) (not from a bridder point of view) (mostly on feel of melee. numbers are easy adjustments)

PROPOSED CHANGES:

1. DO NOT MAKE MELEE A CHARGING STACK STYLE LIKE NECRO AT ITS CORE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. Leng stacks are ok cuz its for the weapon. Melee as a WHOLE does NOT need charging stacks please. Melee needs to be nice to learn and rewarding to master. Hit enemies = go boom with interesting ability effects that are NON CHARGING OR STACK RELIANT.
   2)melee needs another adren generating basic w interesting effects.
   3)BASIC ATTACK GCD IS AWFUL. basic attack = normal gcd / 2h harder hit / dual wield x2 hits
   4)melee needs 2h/dual locked adren spenders to further have 2h/dual identity and interplay amongst both. this category of abilities makes those weapon styles unique the most. should have 2 min - 3 max. makes skill REWARDING.
   5)Melee still feels bad off zerk but adding the above suggestion for 2h/dual abilities can make it fun/rewarding with interplay in melee and off zerk rots using zgs. These changes can make every zerk feel different based on PLAYER CHOICE.
2. non abilities feel bad really bad. Make them generate adren.

[cinder lily]

Afaik it barely edges claws on average damage. I dont have it yet. Was waiting on this beta and the price to drop.

[hollow hill]

It's more damage and way more consistent adre than claws

[cinder lily]

With crit buffs. Without those the adren is even. So we look at the damage of each spec.

Plus hitcap issues

[molten bison]

based on beta numbers

Claws are 400% average

Dagger is 345% + (180x1.25x.25 + 165x1.5x.5) = 345 + 180 = 525% average

Factoring in current max crit, claws are roughly 649.6% average and varanus is roughly 862.7% average

[hollow hill]

Hit cap of course taking into account, you can punch in your gear and see if you're interested https://rs-analysis.xyz/melee . Actually a huge difference in avg. damage

[royal shale]

My feedback as an average-skilled PvM player (Reaper Crew but not Hardmode kills on most bosses): I think the tier 95 wands feel okay to use in terms of "only spend on burns" instead of "mostly plays like crit but you build with burns" like main.

However, using only burns means I have zero synergy with the rest of the Magic kit. Metamorphosis as the damage buff for burns is gone--please make Sunshine boost them if you're removing Metamorphosis! None of the burns cost enough adrenaline to justify Sonic and your burns can't crit, so I'm then using runic imbue on Dragonbreath for "boring big hit"--and Kerapac's Wristwraps still conflict when using Dragonbreath before or after Combust!

[rich kelp]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/please_make_Sunshine_boost_them_if_you're_removing_Metamorphosis!_None_of_the_burns_cost_enough_adrenaline_to_justify_Sonic_and_your_burns_can't_crit%2C_so_you're_then_using_runic_imbue_on_Dragonbreath_for_"boring_big_hit"

[hollow hill]

With crit buffs
Non crit buff melee is doomed anyways, doubt you'd ever use the spec then

[royal shale]

(Apparently double dashes triggers wikibot, I thought it was only double brackets)

[tropic violet]

do we have a comparison to live?

[cinder lily]

Ah, I see. Yes I have that bookmarked already. Incredible resource. Sucks theyll probably have to redo it. I was hoping the rotstion builder part of it would get finished at some point. Wish I could help but im a potato in that area.

But I see the dagger is a bigger boost than I thought. Cool. I thought it was like 5% mkre than claws but looks like its closer to 10-15% more. Ill grab one then.

[hollow hill]

That's for live only afaik

[tropic violet]

oh l0l

ignore me then

[fiery gull]

numbers are easy adjustments i hope all those melee'ers are focusing on the feel of it rather than the numbers of it. it feels so awful

[hollow hill]

What feel, I just revo everything

[upbeat field]

So dagger still wins out bc crits are good

Thats what im getting lmao

[cinder lily]

Um, I guess theres another thing to consider. Most rotations i utilize roar > claws in first zerk then obviously roar > ezk the rest. I imagine roar > claws is better than roar > dagger but ill check the analysis. Just my gut feeling on there since the 3rd hit is super loaded.

[hollow hill]

roar > claws is better than roar > dagger
Nope, still better to dagger

[hollow hill]

It also gets increased crit damage on top of the chance

[cinder lily]

So roar > dagger is better than roar > claws?

Interesting.

[royal shale]

I think what Fuzzy is saying is the dagger third hit will go way over hit cap so you lose damage there

[cinder lily]

Good for me, I dont like eof Swaps anyway.

Correct.

[hollow hill]

Ah yes, but even then the average damage of dagger is higher

[cinder lily]

I guess a better way to think of it is roar is effectively its damage + what it boosts.

So if we want to maximize 2 abilities worth of damage, you want those combinations to be the highest.

[royal shale]

when they remove the hit cap in the code we can prebuild to dump hundreds of thousands of damage at the start

I mean prebuild speed kills already happen but it’ll be even worse.

[upbeat field]

So is melee still gonna be kinda grimlocked?

[night oasis]

i dont like the idea of deto getting removed, it was accessible to everyone unlike tempest or cblast

[upbeat field]

Personally

[formal ibex]

Tbf I am dumb so maybe be a me issue but I always forget to actually detonate detonate lol

[upbeat field]

I dont think abilities should be rare drops. More bosses should utilize a teci system that guarantees it after x kills

[formal ibex]

I’ll use it and just forget

[royal shale]

Yeah just 25% Chain until endgame boss codex is kinda sketchy…

[tropic violet]

cant wait for the damage numbers and hp crunch happens so the hit cap can be addressed

and then we REALLY zoom with dpm / dps

[vapid socket]

If you ask me, Detonate should auto-trigger at 100%, unless otherwise.

[formal ibex]

I’d love that haha

[night oasis]

sure deto is niche and it doesnt work with revo but who cares

[formal ibex]

I’m such a noob lmao 🤣

[night oasis]

some ppl find it useful

or at least i did

[royal shale]

Twin Furies 😄

[night oasis]

for me it was low level mage training in shattered worlds

[tropic violet]

deto was kinda nice for AG

but idk how much it was used by climbers tbh

[rotund granite]

deto was used at solak and other bosses with phase transitions

[night oasis]

it was quite unique too

[formal ibex]

I wish agility tied into melee… be so cool to have an ability that makes you dash around and single hit each target… like barge but auto hits enemies as you dash round… if that makes sense…

[hollow hill]

Iirc it is also used pre-tumekens for normal damage if you have the boots?

[cinder lily]

Put my gear into the analysis and it says roar > claws is 66k avg, then roar > dagger is 67k avg. Lol. So thats good news. Just use dagger eof all the time. Ezpz.

Oh... but actually it'll definitely be better because both roar and zerk go to 1.75 potentially. So the cap will potentially be less an issue.

[royal shale]

Leaked screenshot of melee detonate

[hollow hill]

Roar should be the same both times, so you can just compare the dagger vs. claws 👍

[rotund granite]

yeah a deto with blasties before was also somewhat used in normal rotations, but a lot of people skip using it in practice tbh

[gritty spire]

if we are gonna do this to magic let us keep the live version

it feels so bad

[hollow hill]

auto-trigger at 100%
Only if another ability is used please, since often you wanna wait with it before activating

[hollow hill]

Ngl, no clue how worth it would even be with autoing gone

[hollow hill]

This but for all styles

[rotund granite]

I remember deto was less worth compared to a lot of stuff like wildmagic and asphyx

maybe even gstaff

can't remember exactly, but it was pretty low prio

[gritty spire]

im more invested in mage and the stuff they changed today made it go from feeling great to feeling awful

[rotund granite]

I think it was still used though especially if you didn't have all the upgrades yet

[gritty spire]

i love spending 1/5th of my hp to empower an ability

it feels wonderful /s

[royal shale]

The t95 burn wands feel okay to use in terms of game flow, but they end up relatively very weak because they get zero synergy with the rest of Magic. Honestly I might just pretend wands are a crit stick plus a nice spec, with how little synergy they get. Sunshine Burns PLEASE!

[cinder lily]

Right. I did realize that the analysis calc is using 2x for both roar and claws and in beta its 1.75, so the cap should be less of an issue unless they also cranked the base value of thsoe specs up to compensate. Then it could actually tip toward claws. Ill have to wait and see what happens. Either way the dagger is great and a bigger improvement from claws than I thought.

[muted haven]

yup wand still feels bad. Still cant reset wand spec if you open with it, no synergy with gear or crit or TA

[hollow hill]

Looking it up it seems to be the same damage as Nami, +8.6 sunshine dmg if you count the auto

Or wait

deto was 4t not 3t

[fierce phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/smash-bros-melee-super-smash-bros-melee-bat-homerun-homerun-bat-gif-26180968

[upbeat field]

Supposedly specs were boosted to counter the zerk nerf

But still should prove to be somewhat true

[astral nebula]

• Please bring deto back, precharging deto before spawns and during immunity phases was the most fun ability interaction in the game

• I don’t understand why the adrenaline reduction was nerfed, sunshine costing 20% adren finally made a buff ult not self-clash in design

[clever juniper]

Bug Report: Punish does not work on Flesh Hatcher. The damage does not get boosted below 50% hp, and neither does the bloodlust buff. It does work on other bosses.

[rotund granite]

looks like the devs are trying to get magma tempest to replace deto

[astral nebula]

• It’s hard to overemphasize how good deto was, almost no abilities are intrinsically fun as a direct consequence of their design elements and deto was at the top

[solemn marlin]

so is it clear what the Zuk cape effect is replaced with?

[gritty spire]

100% this.

[rotund granite]

adds more damage to the ult

[upbeat field]

Makes ults stronger as always, the adren reduction is just baked into the ability now

[tropic violet]

they know about it yeah

[cinder lily]

Right. Depends on how much. If they bumped them by the same 10-15% they did for the rest it could be even more than before, but with roar and zerk both being hit, my intuition is that will be slightly less which should favor dagger then. Entirely depends on how much they bumped the specs up.