Sniper Glint vs. Bullet Trails, both or only one

[hard raven]

I heard someone in #battlebit-eng say that glint is dumb, and another person say that glint is enough to track snipers, bullet trails are overkill, and it got me thinking: what if sniper glint was removed, and bullet trails were how you located snipers? I tend to agree with the idea that both glint and bullet trails are a little overkill for snipers, but I haven't played with the decreased glint angle and sniper trails yet, so we'll see.

So, the options, and their upsides/downsides:

OPTION 1: NO GLINT, SNIPER TRAILS ONLY

• Lets snipers observe with their scopes silently without being noticed
• Lets snipers get at least one shot off before being detected
• Makes the process of looking for a sniper more active and require communication as opposed to just looking for a glint and shooting it
• Encourages snipers to relocate after a few shots, since more than that will give people time to find out where they are

• Can become very annoying for a team that isn't communicating well
• Lone players stand almost no chance of ever finding where a sniper is if said sniper doesn't miss
• A trail might give a general direction, but would it be enough to pinpoint a sniper's location?
• Removes the utility of an existing gadget entirely

OPTION 2: SNIPER GLINT, NO TRAILS

• The current model of how things work
• Everyone already understands this and can develop counterplay around it
• Allows for decoy glint tomfoolery
• Also encourages snipers to shoot and scoot
• Easier for new players to pick up on

• Makes even observing from afar with a sniper rifle carry the risk of being spotted immediately, which isn't fun
• Counterplay for snipers is just "shoot the glint for a free headshot"

OPTION 3: BOTH GLINT AND TRAILS

• Makes it very easy to tell where snipers are, encouraging snipers to stay very mobile
• Friendliest to newer players

• Unfriendliest to people who like sniping
• Makes looking for snipers a trivial process

I'm sure I've missed some upsides/downsides, or maybe misread what's an upside vs. what's a downside, so talk about it

[snow robin]

I think no glint would just remove the purpose of having binoculars, but I could support the idea of no trails.

[hasty tundra]

Glint prevents you from being blind sided at range. If they add in the glint falloff based on distance that medium scopes have to long scopes I think having a very slight trail for snipers would be fine

Like a super quick hard to see trail

No scope should glint within 200m for sure

and long range scopes shouldn't glint more than medium range scopes until they get past the medium scope's maximum glint intensity imo

I mainly want trails because trails are cool tbh

[civic bramble]

Trails give me Halo vibes so that makes me happy

[hasty tundra]

If you like halo, go vote up my halo rocket launcher lol

[civic bramble]

Lmfaooo

As funny as that would be...

[hasty tundra]

Speaking of halo, they have a little tiny bit of glint on medium scopes and such. It's pretty pointless in that game since everyone is highlighted like a billboard, but here I still find it helpful

[hasty tundra]

nah it's an actual suggestion (https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1182088695210319993)

[civic bramble]

Infinites gross with that

OG Halo's don't have that and the sniper had a trail

was very nice

[hasty tundra]

Well, it's nice to know when to shoot peeps scoping in at you, or when someone is trying to hit you at range since in infinite the engagement distances are much much farther

[civic bramble]

Fair point

[hasty tundra]

but do agree, wasn't the most elegant change

[civic bramble]

But at the same time I tend to notice when my shields being peppered lightly by some dude with a BR halfway in mexico

But thats halo

dis battlebit

And personally I like just trails because it means you aren't punished for fucking looking at someone

Sometimes I just like to spectate players do weird shit

[hard raven]

I've been an advocate of changing binoculars to make them even more of a useful scouting tool

Like giving them FLIR, etc.

[hasty tundra]

I think it punishes peeps for missing a good bit more, but the new sounds would also do that tbh. I think binos being able to see glint would be an interesting change someone mentioned. Binos SHOULD have flirs tbh.

Like, if I'm sniping I might as well be able to scout out without scoping easier. It's not like not having flirs makes that any harder.

Well actually, I'ma walk this back

[hard raven]

big agree with this

[hasty tundra]

Less flirs, but Binos should make glint stronger and spots longer. They should also have zoom levels

Flirs nearly ruined BF4 in some ways lol, so it'd be good not to have too many flir options

[subtle berry]

Easy 1 for me. I really like how it incentivizes snipers to play like actual precision shooters by taking your time to aim, instead of clicking fast because some other sniper might have spotted you and is about to have the easiest kill on you standing still.
It's gonna be really rare that a sniper takes a shot and despawns a guy with a headshot and NO ONE is there to see it so i don't think this is a downside ---> "Lone players stand almost no chance of ever finding where a sniper is if said sniper doesn't miss"

[subtle berry]

Binoculars don't need to be the "no glint" option, they could very well have other uses like longer spotting, variable zoom (legit just give them 2x - 40x magnification) or something else entirely.

[grave dagger]

I've gone for 3 for now simply because until I see it live I'm not sure if it's a tune it or lose it scenario. From the video posted, I think the trail may last a touch too long, but really need to see it in action, and I may then lean towards 1, as I think it's plenty to give someone an opportunity to retaliate against a sniper position without the constant glint broadcast

[lost moth]

I think the only option you could possibly choose is Option 2: I think too many players casually play Recon and in my opinion don't have the understanding of someone who solely plays Recon. Glint was introduced to help players be able to spot Snipers from longer ranges and we can all agree that is something that was achieved. The issue that it created was it simply made Medium Scopes better overall because there was no Glint. It is hard to see players running around as is depending on what game mode you are playing and feeling obligated scoping in abut 80% of the time is fair to say. Now that Medium scopes have glint after 200m is an attempt to balance out the issue between long range and medium scopes and in doing so it has made it even easier to counter Recon Players.

I already believe there are enough ways to counter a Recon Player within the game, Glint and Player Death Cam is something that ALREADY exists within the game. If I get counter sniped the first thing I do is wait for the Cam to direct me in the direction that the player shot me from. At that stage I already have plenty of information as to figure out where I got shot from and 9 times out of 10 I find them and kill them from their spot. I don't understand why Tracer Rounds are being implemented into the game at all. All this is enabling is players who don't pay any attention will now be able to see they are being shot at more because there is more clues to it.

[pallid quiver]

Bf4 had both trails and glint, yet snipers were a problem, we were missing trails so far making it a bigger problem lol

So snipers, you get a high advantage weapon, class with a high disadvantage, so far the disadvantage did not existed making it unbalanced

[lost moth]

I never played BF4 so I cannot speak on that, but from my perspective someone who took a break from the game and is coming back I have noticed a huge shift with the changes and updates to the game to which I feel more players are easily able to counter snipers entirely.

Which I don't think is a bad thing by any means.

[pallid quiver]

Goal is not countering yet being aware the direction of the sniper is and giving the player feedback of 'YOU ARE BEING SHOT BY A SNIPER; MOVE YOUR A**, don't stand there like a duck'

[foggy cape]

One major problem i have is that the velocity on sniper rifles feels so damn inflated compared to comparable games

[lost moth]

And I can understand that, I mean there is so much going on even with adding sound ques people aren't going to hear it drowned out while playing.

[pallid quiver]

Sound + visual

One of biggest complain is snipers being unvisible and near impossible to hear if you are being shot by a sniper or just a random guy sitting on corner with a pistol

making it impossible to tell if you should move your a** or stand and do what you were planning.

[broken pulsar]

In that case I would hope there is some alpha fading with very quick falloff so only people really being shot at will see the trails

[pallid quiver]

I literally made the video

literally explained how long it fades and showed in the video

[lost moth]

He posted a video about it

[pallid quiver]

I don't how else to commuicate if video + text is not enough

[lost moth]

Lol

[ivory zinc]

Oki where is the thread those messages linked to? #1170730270492721253 message

[broken pulsar]

Yes, it fades over time, but I don't think the video shows what it looks like if the sniper is firing in a very different direction?

[pallid quiver]

I got tired of it, I will save that discussion for another time

[ivory zinc]

Bruh

[broken pulsar]

I meant a distance-based falloff, so the trace isn't visible to everyone, only people the shot is passing close to

[pallid quiver]

I don't know what you talking about

if this is not enough, you deserve to be killed by a sniper

[broken pulsar]

Let's say the sniper turns 90° right or left and fires from that positoin, would you be able to see the trail off in the distance?

[pallid quiver]

very slightly if you were focusing that direction if there is nothing else that blends with trail

[broken pulsar]

Alright that's what I meant. It feels like it might be broadcasting the position too much even for people who aren't being directly threatened

But we'll see how it plays out in practice I suppose

[tranquil snow]

Its not like most players can do anything with that trail info anyway

[lost moth]

? of course they can

[tranquil snow]

its just a harsh nerf against close to mid range snipers

but if someone shoots you from 500m and you only have an AR what are you gonna do about it? shoot back and slow yourself to receive a headshot

[broken pulsar]

Honestly in general, the way things currently are, you should never stop moving if you feel shots coming your way

[lost moth]

Just from his example if there are 10 players there and I'm only shooting at one of them. I know have 9 players are more who could visually see someone getting shot.

[lost moth]

Agreed.

[broken pulsar]

Even if it's not a sniper, many other weapons can beam you easily

[lost moth]

I think the tracer round is just giving up waaaay to much information.

[jagged heart]

well, the glint gave the exact location to half the map for long range snipers

[lost moth]

At this point you are just encouraging the meta of Marksmen rifles again

[broken pulsar]

I agree but I also see Oki's point. Which is why a distance-based falloff feels like a good middle ground so the information is only specifically delivered to people who are under direct threat from the sniper and not the entire map.

e.g. in Sandysunset I feel like everyone's just gonna be watching gray trails flying all over the sky

[lost moth]

But this is why I would disagree overall. The point of a sniper is to take out enemies effectively at range and stealthy. Having a tracer round that directly shows a certain group of people where you are shooting literally counters this. Glint to me already gives your position away enough. I think adding sound ques first and making them distinct from any other shots is something that should be tested first.

IF I understand and have read the updates correctly the Tracer rounds and Sounds Ques are being added at the same time.

[broken pulsar]

Well, this is why I voted for the trail option only. I think glint is a bit too "gamey" and nullifies the stealth aspect.

But even with trails, if you had no glint and you are properly concealed/stay on the move, the enemies will not automatically be able to pinpoint your location

Problem is glint+trails means trails make you aware there is a sniper and then you can just look for the glint to know exactly where they are

[lost moth]

A good Recon Player understands Glint and how it works so it all comes down to positioning.

Here is an example.

Laying down in a open field and zooming in with a scope, anyone looking in that direction can see the glint.

If I position myself behind a wall/tree/rock and aim in a certain angle I know for a fact that only people in this view can see my glint. Which is way better off than being in the wide open.

[real goblet]

tbh, we just need to see how it looks/feel in game for this suggestion to be really needed 👀

[broken pulsar]

This still means that if there's an area you want to keep watch over, you just gotta hope nobody will notice you're looking at them even if you haven't fired a single shot

Kinda goes against the sniper silently watching for their victim fantasy

In fact, with just trails, enemy might not even know if there's a single sniper or multiple firing on them

[lost moth]

It's pretty obvious how many are shooting at you.

[lost moth]

But there has to be give and take within the game. The community would be in anger and throwing a fit if Recon had no glint and trails.

In other FPS games when you get shot at you are given an indication of where you were getting shot from. It is a visual que and literally tells you everything you need to know. It's very subtle but it gets the job done.

The bigger lobbies you go play in it's just going to be a fire work show of tracer trails all over the place.

"At this point, only possible solution I can think of is, decreasing damage over distance more to balance this.
I honestly don't want everyone to have a DMR on their hand capable of tapping over +100m by just peeking in small hole."

This was something Oki was asking about in #devs-asking awhile back which Tracer rounds of course help counter this.

[broken pulsar]

I mean I wouldn't be against making sniper damage fall off too

The inverted curve is silly as heck

[lost moth]

But my main problem with Tracer Rounds like other people have said is it literally is going to create a bigger gap between players on Recon. In order to be a good Recon you have to stay within 0-200m and constantly move around which will create the same feeling Call of Duty has imo.

[lost moth]

It wouldn't affect me as a player tbh. I don't long range snipe I tend to stay within the 0-300m at most.

I'm not against it, but at that stage it is another nerf to Long range scopes in general.

[broken pulsar]

I also don't think 20x or 40x are needed lol

It's just for shits and giggles

[lost moth]

But a play I literally made last night on Salhan won't ever happen again with Trails. Taking out a group of 3 snipers all on top of a roof dying over and over because they refuse to get off the roof and have no clue where they are doing from.

[hollow viper]

Why not just make the sniper bullet texture longer? During a firefight, I tend to use the direction the bullet comes in at to figure out where the opponent is

That and the tight angle glint should be plenty

[lost moth]

It would solve it for sure.

Sound que, Glint, and the current sniper bullet texture would make it easy enough.

[hollow viper]

Plus, if they don’t want to fully get rid of the trail, it could be the same texture with a VERY quick fade time to allow players to get a feel for direction and act as a visual indicator of the bullet being sniper shot

Without being a giant line pointing at the sniper

[lost moth]

Watching the example it for sure feels like a giant line ngl.

It lasts way tooooo long

It's is just one giant line to your position.

[hollow viper]

I think increasing the fade time a bit and making it less distorted should make it harder to see. Then if they make it have an effect where the trail near where the bullet hits lasts longer

So it is still pointing at the sniper, but to have to imagine the rest of the trail instead of following it

[real goblet]

We'll see. But I think the trail should be easy to see for the person getting shot at. But not for the whole map 👀 We'll have to check how it is from afar.

At least from the video, you can confirm it does it's job of telling you, "you're getting shot at by a sniper"

[lost moth]

Honestly, I don't think the issue that needs to be fixed is visuals at any level though that's the problem. If you died to a sniper laying down then guess what. You were being looked at by a sniper and could be seen from wherever they were.

[hollow viper]

That’s why I’m thinking the close to hit point thing. So it doesn’t show very much in the air, but people near where the bullet hits (whether it be a wall, the ground) will be able to spot it more easily and follow where it points

[hollow viper]

It does do that, admittedly

Idea: the bullet trail is a very small distortion effect that fades quickly. Where it hits, it creates a particle effect (like a little puff of dirt or something). Within that puff, the distortion becomes much more visible. Likewise, the distortion, though hard to see, would be more pronounced in smoke

[lost moth]

It does but, do you really need that indication. The Glint is pretty apparent and giving you all the clues you need.

Like this is my issue with the entire update, is like do you really need another visual clue period.

[hollow viper]

The thing is, the current glint is a broadcast that’s pretty easy to spot anywhere on the map. What if it both had a tighter angle and faded as it went out of the center of the screen?

[real goblet]

the glint is apparent only when scoped = from before to the moment of firing. Trail will help knowing it's from a sniper, and where it got shoot from, and if it's aimed at you.

[real goblet]

Well the new sniper sound should help a lot too 👀

We'll see how it goes. Maybe the trail is too much, maybe it's fine

[civic yarrow]

Snipers aren't currently balanced and its not because these reasons

[real goblet]

snipers stats needs a whole rework

[lost moth]

Like Oki said before BF4 had both glint and the Trails and people sniping was still a problem. Which means that both of those weren't the solution to the problem.

[hollow viper]

Current idea:
Glint: only visible if you are in the snipers scope. Fades the farther it gets from the center of your screen.
Trail: faint distortion that fades rather quickly. Is more visible in particle effects
Bullet on hit: creates a puff of particles colored the same as the surface hit. Functions similarly to a tiny smoke, but not super dense.

These should come together with the new sniper sound to let the bullet and impact show the rough direction of fire, and the glint to hone in on a specific point

[real goblet]

impact bullet unique to sniper is cool idea

[civic yarrow]

Half my games in invasion have been like this. Where are those "sweat" movement players abusing no inertia?

[jagged heart]

on the leaderboard if I had to guess

[hollow viper]

That was honestly a good response

[lost moth]

The disadvantage is that snipers in up close and personal engagements are almost guaranteed to die. Snipers will always be overpowered because of the amount of damage they deal, that is the sole reason they are strong. The bigger the area the stronger the class.

[lost moth]

That is something to do with Salhan. It is Salhan correct?

[real goblet]

idk, I only see one squad in 127vs127 like this

[real goblet]

Sniper have mine/Claymore to tell them if they get rushed or not.

they have rope to get to spot you can't get

And you can always build

[lost moth]

I never use them, I use sound ques.

[hollow viper]

I think this idea is a good middle ground, should keep the engagement mostly between the sniper and the target, while still allowing for danger for the sniper

[real goblet]

Claymore is a sound cue.

[lost moth]

So simple enough remove it. Give other players a grappling hook

[jagged heart]

a lot of recons there, I'll give you that

[real goblet]

remove what?

[lost moth]

If the idea is to nerf Recon then stop enabling and allowing the class to get away from counters.

[jagged heart]

what map's that even on

[real goblet]

Assault has Rope gadget. And you can always destroy the whole building with C4 too

you can also build to get to some places

[lost moth]

That's my point. The game over the last few updates has changed drastically from what it used to be. Guns are more widely available on more classes and gadgets as well. There are more diverse ways to go about playing the game.

Allow for more building destruction within the game to counter snipers who sit up a tower because they have a grappling gun.

Remove claymores/mines from Recon to allow players who want to sneak up on that Recon player that has been dominating them the entire game,

[real goblet]

Idk, when I hunt a sniper, I don't have problem to get to them. Except, when they're super far and it's just boring to walk there. Or when they're camping in the spawn.

Sniping from the spawn shouldn't be allowed tbh.

[lost moth]

Sniping from spawn is a different topic entirerely, and unfortunately to me that comes down to map design.

[real goblet]

that's a really bad idea

Claymore/mines are tool especially useful to recon

It absolutly make sense to have them on Recon

[lost moth]

But again why does that make any sense. The engineer that deals with explosives could easily have claymore/mines

[real goblet]

It all go back to why does everyone has C4? 💀 Anyway it's not the thread

[broken pulsar]

It's a useful tool but it's too strong

C4 needs to be tweaked so it's not always the obviously superior choice

[lost moth]

But my point about Tracers and Sound Ques and all these updates, is even Oki himself admitted that in BF4 they had all of that and snipers were still a strong in the game. So that means that those changes didn't have any effect on the game play at all because they didn't address the main problem. If the problem is admitting that Snipers are really powerful than you need to remove the power that just enables them to do what they do ie. like camping with claymores/mines.

[real goblet]

Idk, you can only have 4 at all times. The claymore and mines can be avoid. The only time I die to them is random one in bush or running in the stairs.

You can jump on the rails of stairs to avoid any mines btw

[lost moth]

But you know that and I know that. The general population don't think of that

[real goblet]

And?

[verbal tide]

That's not our fault the general population isnt willing to learn easy features of the game.

[real goblet]

General population die to a mine, they'll be careful next time. If they don't and just rush into it again. That's insanity on their part.

[lost moth]

Ah so why are we adding all of these other features that make it easier for everyone.

[lost moth]

If you die to a sniper then you should be careful next time and dont rush in.

Don't you see the point I'm trying to make.

[verbal tide]

because of vocal minority that isn't playing the game to appreciate it

involvment vs representation

[real goblet]

Yes. If you die to a sniper, next time you should not stand still. And this game has the main keypoint of spacial awereness. If you don't pay attention, you'll get shredded by anything anytime.

[verbal tide]

doing the same thing over and over and then complaining something "isn't balanced" is not a good recipe for sucess

[real goblet]

Plus, when you die, you have a camera litteraly pointing at the killer + the weapon and the name. And after patch, you'll have also the 3D spot ping on it and the ping back on the map.

You don't want to lock casu/base player out of the game with "Execution" trick for a shooter like that. But anything that is on the domain of tactical/positionning/thinking, shouldn't be a problem.

[lost moth]

But the point Matoshiro just made is the point I'm getting across. There are plenty of tools that can help you figure out how you died. Why do we need to add tracers to make it easier

At the very most you are making it harder for the casual players to get any better with sniping when they are easier to find when sniping.

[real goblet]

I do agree, the trail will make sniping much harder for casual.

[lost moth]

Something that is concerning about it all. It's easy to get blindsided by one problem and then all you are doing is creating another one. By adding trail you are opening the door to now sniper is too hard to play and having to rebalance it again.

[real goblet]

Tbh, I think the trail is fine for any long range sniping. The only problem I see, might be for short/medium range sniping.

[lost moth]

Depending on how its implemented for sure.

[real goblet]

short range might not matter, because the only people I see doing that ,are already not in cover, but with the mass of rushing people.

[verbal tide]

Agreed. We don't need to nerf Recon this badly

A full direct path to Recon for 3 whole seconds?

[real goblet]

Maybe make the trail harder to see when it's shot from a shorter distance? But I dont see how to implemant that.

[halcyon torrent]

Would be a good use for advanced binos... But I think FLIR binos might be a squad lead thing later? I forgor

I know they get unique spotting tools

[real goblet]

Well

[verbal tide]

Glint works fine imo, and I don't mind the medium sight nerf even when I use ACOG. I would easily take that over smoke trails

[real goblet]

There's a way. If we had a rebalance on the snipers. And we had two or three categories with: Short / Medium / Long range sniper design. Then you could attribute different trail size/duration with each snipers.

[verbal tide]

have players never used smoke grenades?

[real goblet]

Extremely underutilized sadly :c

[verbal tide]

Good. Then it's the players fault for not using the appropriate kit and then complaining about not being able to throw frags at every problem.

[halcyon torrent]

Thing is, before glint changes imo snipers were obvious af anyways... and I don't think they were unplayable then to be honest. It was bad, but i think Tracers Trails are better

How long is the tracer trail as is?

Like duration wise

[lost moth]

DUDE this has been my point all along. Why are we getting punished when players dont utilize their kit.

[real goblet]

Well I do think the Sniper unique sounds and the new glint are really good changes.

[verbal tide]

Tracers are worse, I use the other team's Glints to counter snipe in half a second

[verbal tide]

Full length, for 3 seconds.

[real goblet]

Making the one getting sniped aware of that is great. And reducing the amount of random people not involved in the engagement is good too.

[lost moth]

So then what I was trying to tell Oki this morning is make these changes and leave tracers out of it.

See what happens when you make these changes and go from there

[real goblet]

I'm pretty sure Trail is now needed for long range sniping.

[verbal tide]

I think another issue is players are using cheap sound solutions and unable to tell where bullets are shooting from

[lost moth]

But again like the point I made earlier all you are doing now is incentivizing players to not use long range sniping period.

[real goblet]

Nah, I tested with a friend. 3D sounds ain't good. But 3D sounds is something extremely hard to make "good".

[verbal tide]

Are you using closed-back headphones?

[halcyon torrent]

My fsult, did mean trails lol

[verbal tide]

I've been fine with my open-backs

[real goblet]

HyperX ""7.1"" headphones

[verbal tide]

💀

[real goblet]

It's not good tbh.

But you can't expect people to play battlebit with potato PC and 500$ headphones

[verbal tide]

Yeah, I can see how the current sound implementation would not be good on tjlse

[halcyon torrent]

My thing is, glint was in an unhealthy place, painted an absurdly big target on snipers and doesnt tell you when he's pointed at you

[verbal tide]

$50 ones should be fine tbh

[halcyon torrent]

Now it's harder to see snipers, but you can tell when you're in danger

Imo, that's preferable

[real goblet]

@verbal tide you tested with different settings, and you feel a difference?

[verbal tide]

I use glint to counter-snipe, and its fine even if he's not looking at you. It should give you a warning that you're gonna need to gtfo there

[halcyon torrent]

Snipers by nature are supposed to be relatively safe but easy to avoid shots from, and it makes sense balance wise given smoke and buildable cover

[halcyon torrent]

yeah, thats what I mean; upcoming glint changes seem to indicate when theyre aiming at you

[verbal tide]

its mild but not huge, probably implemented by the game

could use tweaks

[halcyon torrent]

Glint works with the trails I'm hoping

[distant grove]

I think either or works depends on how the trails look

[halcyon torrent]

With trails and the sniper shot sounds revealing the sniper to targets, and glint being a way to watch them once you know where they're at (unless they relocate)

[distant grove]

If it’s obvious just do trails

[halcyon torrent]

yea theres a clip in upcoming, i'll grab it rq

[verbal tide]

I'm already quitting the game if it's being implemented; a core part of my gameplay is being changed
especially when I'm using a medium scope at 500m plus

[halcyon torrent]

#dev-wip message

shows the trail and glint changes

[distant grove]

I like it

Just do both

[verbal tide]

I'll pass

[halcyon torrent]

Imo, it reduces heat on snipers, and makes it easier to tell when you're aimed at as a target - Good things for both players imo

[real goblet]

Well with the new glint long range sniping is gonna be really good tho

[distant grove]

It’s already a problem on large maps that glint disappears at a far range

[real goblet]

Like 400m+ you'll be able to pick whatever scope you want without bothering

[halcyon torrent]

^exaxtly. If old glint existed trails would be stupid ngl

[distant grove]

So the trail is nice

[verbal tide]

I generally snipe under <300m so I don't like the trail

[halcyon torrent]

But now all scopes are viable, glint only really exposes players if you know they're there, etc

[real goblet]

TBH, the new trail will still be WAY WAY harder to tell than the giant f' 'ss glint of old patch

[distant grove]

Then use a 2 to 4 times scope

[halcyon torrent]

Ok... what abt making trail more prominent with distance as well?

[verbal tide]

I use ACOG (4x)

[verbal tide]

that would be acceptable

should counter less glint

[halcyon torrent]

e.g when fired it leaves no trail, and scales the farther it travels

[distant grove]

Perfect compromise

[halcyon torrent]

Same scale with scope glint

it doesnt show up at close ranges

[dire ocean]

Why are people starting to use suggestions as poll voting

[distant grove]

Just make trails not visible at ranges below 150 meters

[real goblet]

that'd be cool

[halcyon torrent]

better way have the dev see results ig

[verbal tide]

too many variables

[halcyon torrent]

ok - Should we make a thread for scaing trails as well?

Would be easier to get eyes on it that way

[real goblet]

that's what I did for armour. I put every armour system/things that I saw in the different armour thread. Then to know what people wanted. But it got deleted for obvious reason.

[dire ocean]

2 in 1 suggestions are fine but you're packing in so much I think its a bit unfair to those who put a lot of time into one big suggestion rather than doing this weird thing where you try to pack in as much as possible and add all these voting options

[real goblet]

Tbh, we wouldn't need this. If we had some sort of poll every month or week. Or just a cleaner suggestion threads (less toxic/off topic and only focused on the current threads)

[real goblet]

Wait for test server

let's see first how it is

[distant grove]

I just want to know where snipers are shooting on large maps to avoid being to anxious

[halcyon torrent]

My big thing is, glint as-is has the issue of not telling when you're in danger, but not telling you where theyre aiming, and that kinda defeats the purpose for longer range "camp" snipers. I think trails will be ok for fixing that

[halcyon torrent]

I agree. I am glad Oki added beta testing for sure

[verbal tide]

should carry around smokes more often

[real goblet]

The new smoke are gonna be really good

[verbal tide]

yeah it should stop rando kills

will be useful for dragging allies too

[halcyon torrent]

Honestly amazes me how many games seem to have randomized/ineffective smoke. Glad to see battlebit implementing changes to address that

[hollow viper]

Reposting with possibly different wording

Glint: only can be seen by people in the scope. The closer they are looking to the glint, the brighter it is. It fades out the farther away they look.

Trail: thin, quickly fading trail with light distortion effects. These effects last longer and are more pronounced in particle effects (smoke and dust)

Bullet on hit: releases a small “puff” of the color of the object hit. Puff will always be oriented based on how the bullet hits.

Sound: a distinctive sound for sniper bullets, both when flying through the air and when fired. This allows players to tell if there is a sniper shooting at/near them

[broken pulsar]

Seriously. BBR > AAA

[halcyon torrent]

It doesn't have the same visual polish ofc, but honestly could care less about that, as could a lot of people methinks - Trying to find unique solutions to balancing and making these kinds of changes are the kinds of things that excite me about it

The kind of widespread impact on how these things are balanced in games cannt be understated

[hasty tundra]

Yea

[hard raven]

oh hey oki nice to see you here

[hard raven]

literally smokes have saved my life countless times

I almost always run medic with the smoke launcher

assault too if I'm helping make a push

[verbal tide]

based medic??

[hard raven]

I like to think I play medic as an actual medic and not just the class that lets you heal yourself forever

[hard raven]

This is an interesting point, I wonder how much the "snipers are OP" issue will be solved by the new audio feedback alone rather than the bullet trails

Like, I think the immediate feedback of "THERE IS A SNIPER" is probably more valuable than people think; if less people die to snipers because they know beforehand that a sniper is why their teammate just died, regardless of if they can quickly figure out where that sniper is, they might take more precautions and die less as a result

[raw patio]

On hardcore, maybe. BF4 was an AEK/ACE 23-fest the vast majority of its lifespan. Snipers were the weakest they'd been since BF2 and weaker than they'd be for the next 2 titles.

They were not a problem for the community at large and were in fact significantly buffed in BF1, which is what a game in which snipers actually #were# a problem looks like.

Also I'll settle for waiting for the first round of changes to sink in before dogpiling more on top of those.

[deft forum]

to that effect i would even say add a unique headshot sound for snipers that way when someone gets domed there is no doubt in their minds what did it right now they all sound the same

[lost moth]

Exact reason as to why Tracers are even being added when this alone hasn't even been tested.

[tame skiff]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, tho I didn't read every message, is that sniper's power level scales with player density

It's not that surprising that recons are topping 127v127 invasion because from person experience you can find a spot in a lot of maps where, especially on defense, you can shoot only enemy infantry all game

The frontline stays roughly in the same place until the objectives change

And with like 40 enemies all trying to capture that same objective there are so many people to shoot at for the whole game

You just put an obstacle between yourself and the enemy snipers and then you can sit in that one spot all game

It's a very different story for conquest, snipers are so much less powerful in conquest

[deft forum]

yeah 64/32 player sniping is dreadful

[vapid yew]

I think that sniper glints also help with the decision making of whether to counter snipe or not. I tend to runs DMRs and they've got enough range to pick off midrange snipers. if I peek a sniper and already see the scope at max glint intensity I know he's looking at me and I shouldn't challenge and be cheeky xd

[tame skiff]

127 Invasion is the best mode for snipers so it's not surprising they're topping the leaderboard

Especially on defense, it's so easy to be extremely effective

[lost moth]

I only play 32 player sniping

No flex but the bigger lobbies are way to chaotic and would rather have the smaller lobbies with bigger chances of running into close counter situations

[tight mulch]

I'm pretty biased when it comes to sniping.

Cause the more glints I see the better/easier it becomes for me to out skill players requiring lots of time to land a shot. Cause I don't use zeroing for any distance. Glints don't really grab non- snipers attentions, but there will be the odd player who sprays a lmg at me 200m+ away.

There are no benefits to trails to me, cause I never have an issue finding players who are shooting at me. The trails just are going to get in my way when it's a 1v X situation causing visual clutter when trying to aim in and there's a smoke trail in my way. Additionally when I'm in a flank position I don't want to be found out after taking a single shot? Kind defeats the whole purpose of a good flank when now every sniper player can visually see the angle you're shooting at instantly.

[tame skiff]

Yeah I realized this as well when they added med scope glint. Now when I'm in a good spot it's way easier for me to spot and kill the people trying to counter snipe me

[hollow viper]

The thing with sniping, is getting return fire is FUN. More so, I think, than others, because you know it wasn’t a guarantee to be spotted. Making a system to allow for this that also keeps the confrontation between sniper and target would be difficult, but if done well could make the sniper play much more adrenaline inducing

[patent bloom]

adding my two cents to this, option three is wayyyy too brutal imo, but if glint was based on if the target is looking toward the sniper instead of the other way around i could imagine it being a lot more balanced, the trails tell you the general direction and the glint could help with finding the sniper more precisely, acting as a sort of hot or cold minigame, the closer to the sniper that the target is aiming, the stronger and more precise the glint

[broken pulsar]

That's an interesting idea

It's essentially a very nerfed glint

Almost like... it would be better to just remove it :D

[civic yarrow]

Just 0/2 per squad already none this nerfs did anything

[broken pulsar]

Who said they were nerfs

[viscid belfry]

ya with all snipers having glint its 10× funner to play

[tame skiff]

127 Invasion defense be like

[real goblet]

patch isn't out yet tho?

[civic yarrow]

the patch won't do anything, oh it leaves a trail so what I'm supposed to follow them por 1000 meters to find the sniper while my team needs me at the chokepoint?

[real goblet]

it'll make sniper harder. Since Miss shot = Hello i'm there.

So less people playing it

Also

Don't forget "recon" doesn't mean sniper now that we have spotting.

Recon can be a BR or DMR

[civic yarrow]

hello I'm 2000 meters away who cares

[real goblet]

anyone can see that and go for them tho

[civic yarrow]

No one is going to, its a waste of time for maybe getting 1-2 kills

you can also be killed because most maps are empty wastelads

[viscid belfry]

thoes guns won't have the trail XD

[halcyon torrent]

I mean, I think that's kinda part of snipers' gimmick - they're hard to kill, but you can see where they are and avoid them, or get a DMR/countersniper to get rid of them

And as is now, it's easier to tell when you're actually targeted - More 'directional' glints + trails let you know when you're the target moreso then the big glowy glint we had before that lets you know they are looking Somewhere

[tight mulch]

At the end of the day, who are these Trails helping?

• Are these helping other snipers? Yes, they can locate you faster.

• Are these helping support players? Not really? Depending on the range then yes, but support players are just going try running away or get cover most of the time. Rare cases if the sniper's close enough they will shoot back

• Are these helping medic players? Not really also, for the same reasoning they lack the equipment to fight back

• Are these helping engineer players? Same as the the rest of the classes. No.

• Are these helping Assault players? Situationally, yes. Depending on their weapon choice they can fight back. If they're not than it follows the same as anyone whos not on recon.

When you're the sniper what is this doing? Essentially making it blatantly obvious that you're shooting at players. Where if you're priority is shooting players closer to you, than you're very open to being killed any long range opponent who just so happens to be looking in the direction of the trails.

What is this change going to do overall for the class?

• Makes good positioning less rewarding
• Makes sniper more risky to stay in one position, therefore making sniper mobility a stat looked at more
• Makes the skill gap between good/bad snipers much further apart. Cause now good snipers can take more of an advantage from the trails than the other snipers who a) Miss more b) Dont know good map positioning
• Gives the feeling that you have to sit further back than normal to not get punished as easy

Personally for me, I like the change, I consider myself a good sniper, this just makes killing other snipers (the only real threat) much easier. Though this change just makes sniper a harder class to get into for anyone, because its much more punishing.

If Oki's idea is to make snipers less annoying he's doing the right thing to prevent it from being so casual friendly. If his idea was to nerf already good sniper players, then this is just a buff.

[hollow viper]

Engineer rocket launcher

Good luck keeping your cover unnoticed when it gets blasted

(Saying this as a sniper player)

Though currently people don’t bother most of the time with rockets

[civic yarrow]

this is on today patch btrw

[ivory zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-laugh-he-doesnt-know-pepe-gif-14019260

"Is going to kill sniper"

"Nobody going to play sniper"

[civic yarrow]

How I miss the medic smg meta at least I didnt die 10x times to someone in an island

[deft forum]

how many of them are using DMRs (the best guns in the game)

[civic yarrow]

The assault ones are dmr

thats the other team, the assault ones are dmr too

[deft forum]

fake news ass screen shots

[civic yarrow]

BR frontline server

[snow robin]

plot twist: engineers using DMR too

[civic yarrow]

pretty much

gotta love how dumb this discord is about the state of the game. (People still think smg vector medic are broken)

[deft forum]

also from the update ya trails already making flank sniping way less rewarding

[viscid belfry]

bru its dumb how you think everyone is running DMR most if not all games its mostly all m4, ak74, mp7, and AK15 I rarely only see DMRs and when i do its the fucked m110 (it needs something changed about it because its way to good)

unless if update completely changed that haven't played in 2 days

if the update changed it then oh well ig

tbh the only DMR i have a problem with is the fucked m110

the other ones are ok being 3 body shots

the two body shots is fucked

[woven arch]

Sniping from the safe zone is now the best bet

[deft forum]

nah just dmr 2 tap at any range no glint no trail no problem

kekw

and the damage is still basically unreactable

[woven arch]

My point is though that the updates to sniper rifles are just going to encourage more people to sit back rather than play aggressively

[deft forum]

ya im agreeing with you

but eventually people will come to the conclustion of "why would i work 2x as hard as a dmr for basically no reward"

[woven arch]

Yeah. Dmr is unforgiving

You hit one shot and the enemy just fucks off into cover

[deft forum]

you can but that almost never happens

[woven arch]

It happens all the time to me as soon as I land 1 shot they just go prone and I can't get them any more.

Even with head shots

Not that I don't enjoy dmr gameplay. But it's not good for long range counter sniper. And considering the update favours sniper play that involves staying way back from the front, long range counter sniper is going to be more important than ever

[raw patio]

You realize these screenshots are useless for proving any kind of point, right?
Zero context, highly dependent on mode, map, playercount, etc. Not to mention any idiot with ms paint could make those skinny bars say whatever they want.

[civic yarrow]

Basra was reworked to not be so sniper friendly, it turned out be just as friendly as now, huge open spaces without any cover

[woven arch]

TBF as a sniper on Basra most of my kills are other snipers, not grunts

[tame skiff]

I snipe tons of infantry on Basra, we'll see with the new map

[woven arch]

I guess it depends on whether you're a long range sniper or a close range sniper

[hollow coral]

I think keep trails and remove glint, it will give snipers that more ambush feel when being played and stop them from getting punished for just zooming in the sniper rifle

[deft forum]

getting punished for shooting is way way worse than getting punished for zooming

[hollow coral]

Or have it so the tracer only shows on kills

[deft forum]

plus the greater ambush feel is glint no trail so they have to do the minimum of spinning around to look for you if youre even still scoped after your shot

[hollow coral]

Maybe link glint with spotting so once spotted then your sniper scope glints for everyone

just shooting ideas

[slate cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-eyes-glare-viralhog-shining-eyes-glowing-kitty-eyes-gif-19586503

[slate cloud]

How the map must've looked like

[tame skiff]

True, I play 200-300m ideally

[woven arch]

IMO at the very least tracer should only be visible to people within the same cone that scope glint is visible

By tracer i mean the line, not actual tracers

[hollow coral]

Yea that would be cool

[subtle berry]

Tracers on snipers last waaay too long right now

[civic yarrow]

Half the lobbies are snipers and people here are worried about glint and trace

[woven arch]

They're not tracers they're trails

[woven arch]

only 12 snipers in my entire game

of 180 people

[boreal hound]

Glint should be under shooter control. You should have a killflash that prevents glint, but be unable to shoot accurately without opening the killflash and glinting. A good player will be able to control their glinting.

Additionally, trails should only take effect at longer distances, and even then slowly. Perhaps at 100-200 meters, it becomes visible and takes another 100-200 to become fully visible.

The problem after that is how to let recon reposition properly...

[woven arch]

I'd also say give them a max length too

[civic yarrow]

ye game for sure needs more snipers on invasion there aren't enough

[pale walrus]

I was a sniper main before the glint patch. Now I main engineer with a dmr. At this point there's exactly 0 reason to use a sniper when I'm punished for searching for targets. I am pretty much indifferent to the trails. They make sense and allow a squad to return fire on a sniper. But the glint on ALL sniper mid range and long range scopes was a mistake. It made sense on long range. But on mid range, why even equip those if you get screwed by having your position broadcasted? Just slap a 20-40x and don't even bother with a 4x.

[broken pulsar]

Agree that you're punished for just trying to look at what's going on through your scope which is silly as hell

On the other hand the drone doesn't suck now so I guess that's what they expect us to use to mark targets before scoping in

(binos still a meme that should be removed from the game if no attempt at making them useful is gonna be made soon)

[mental cobalt]

huge support for total removal of glint while bullet trails can stay if it needs to be

[real goblet]

should make a trail modification suggestion like that

[real goblet]

you do have binos tho

[broken pulsar]

I agree. And I think it might even help keep snipers in check since medium range recons would be the prime target for long range ones, and without a glint to tell them they are being observed they will be more vulnerable

[real goblet]

glint is fine now tho

[broken pulsar]

Yeah but they suck atm and it just doesn't feel right to not be able to do the cool movie thing of just silently and stealthily tracking your victim through your scope

[real goblet]

yeah because that ain't balanced

you want ultra accurate ar with real deadliness and range too?

I'm for having stealthiness on sniper, only under 200m

[broken pulsar]

It's not automatic what 💀

I would take a decrease in bullet speed and even proper damage falloff over glint

[real goblet]

If you're asking for all of this together :

• Stealthiness
• One shot
• Long range
• High precision
  You don't want to play the game, you wanna be like a kid pissing on ants.

Might as well be godmode or full invisible, and only interact with the player in one way.

Or add bots and make it a sniper game

💀

[mental cobalt]

its the others people's fault when they get sniped from a long range though,
you really should not try to balance the stupidity of other players when it disregards those, who can actuallynuse their brain

[real goblet]

It's also the sniper fault, if he gets sniped by another one, or if he doesn't move out of position and get rushed, or just didn't use cover well.

[broken pulsar]

I already use the tank when I want to do that lol

Who needs to be stealthy when you can just be immune to bullets

[mental cobalt]

correct, if i lay still and someone picks me off at 1200 meters, thaty my fault and my fault only

[real goblet]

Rebalance the snipers stats, and divide max velocity by 2. Then I'm fine with no glint or no trail.

[mental cobalt]

not by 2, but balance the velocities so they make sense, no sniper bullet flies at 1.4 km/s, .50 BMG does ~850 which would be sensible

[deft forum]

and when people get used to that people will still complain

[mental cobalt]

well fuck them, its how it is

[real goblet]

You mean like sniper complaining about glint when glint got heavily reduced?

[mental cobalt]

1400 m/s for a bullet is way to fast

[deft forum]

*on long range scopes

on mediums it still uses the old angle if im not mistaken

[real goblet]

LMAO

Wrong

use reduced angle

another proof, sniper complaining for sh*t, not reading the patch

[mental cobalt]

"peoppe will complain" is not really a solid argument because you can drop it regardless

[real goblet]

Agree

so it should've not been brought up first 🙂

[deft forum]

#game-server-news message

#18

long range only

the change on mediums were 0-200m not glinting and 800-forever not glinting

the angle is untouched on mediums

another proof, people who dont use sniper complaining for sh*t, not reading the patch lel

[real goblet]

#game-server-news message

you should read

Suggestion would be way better, if people searched for the already in suggestion, or read correctly what the patch note said, or what Oki says.

Anyway offtopic

Only thing sniper need is trail not appearing til it flies more than 200m.

and the rework of all the snipers stats.

[lapis nymph]

Idk why you are generalising so much

[pale walrus]

i would be fine with trail being super obvious and longer lasting for the first 200m, reducing to what it is currently after 200. the mid range glint needs to gtfo though. most of my shots are 200-400 with midrange scopes on snipers so really theres no situation where i dont alert the whole map where i am

this would force snipers to fire one or two shots then move unless they want pushed hard, and heavily punish camping

without punishing simply looking for targets.

really i think the main problem with sniping is the camping and farming issue. so punish that with the smoke trails, but the glint just punishes the whole class instead of the behaviour

i would also support reducing the classes health in the head. make it so DMRs can one tap snipers

[real goblet]

The reason I'm advocating for trail being less visible in closer range is because :

• you're at a distance where AR/DMR/BR can fire back.
• Easy to see you already.
• We hear you a lot more.
• Flash is easier to see.
• People can get to your position way faster.

Why would you want to make it more obvious in medium distance? Medium distance sniping isn't a problem. The problem is long range sniping.

[pale walrus]

you are also advocating to keeping the glint on mid range scopes

[real goblet]

The glint isn't visible under 200m

[pale walrus]

read my messages

[real goblet]

I forgot to say it in the paragraph up. But the Curve for the glint of the medium scope need to be swapped left/right.

[pale walrus]

see here

[real goblet]

Yeah

you're saying "make trail obvious under 200m"

[pale walrus]

i dont snipe under 200, i use a DMR or LMG at that distance

[real goblet]

DMR why not, LMG 💀

[pale walrus]

accuracy by volume

[real goblet]

mid range glint is also cone reduced

[pale walrus]

dont care. remove it

[real goblet]

💀

Nah, you wanna cheese with distance with medium scope. That's why it's there

[pale walrus]

ok and?

punish campers not the class

and the thick trails for the first 200 would severely punish camping

glint just makes it so theres no point to snipers at all. all that change did is change my main class from sniper to engineer. now instead of getting one tapped, your getting smacked by an m110 with a 4x or RPGs from 200+

[hazy cedar]

OPTION 2: SNIPER GLINT, NO TRAILS
I like how it was just before the latest change, sniper glint on all scopes.
Now it is unrewarding to find a good sniper spot

[woven arch]

there are no good sniper spots now

[woven arch]

This update does the opposite. Snipers who stay back in the spawn area are at an advantage compared to Snipers that push up and play aggressively who have to move basically every shot.

[small mortar]

Honestly hate this update. As someone who plays with the medium scopes, and still hit 800m shots, this update just says "fu" to the entire playstyle.

might as well just run around with no sights or a red dot now

can still counter snipe by shooting at glint and now trails

[woven arch]

Yep, people just assume that because you can make long range shots with the med scope it must be easy, rather than the fact that you've put a lot of time into that playstyle

[small mortar]

I regularly tapped people at 1k meters. a 4x still got the job done easy enough

Honestly it should be glint OR trails. not both.
if your good enough you can pick out movement of other snipers before they look your way or scope up.
I regularly got in sniping matches with other medium scope users. your fighting pixels at that point.

the power of higher scopes is showing you more of your target.
but the glint honestly ruined it since medium scopes didn't have the glint.

Honestly there is no good solution here that will please everyone.
Right now I don't even want to touch the rifles at all. Remove the trail or remove the glint and have one or the other would be my choice.

[vapid yew]

the glinter would have acquired your head if you were trying to iron sights/red dot
but am still in favor of removing glint since trails literally tell you "don't peek this angle or you will die lmao"

[pale walrus]

exactly my point. thats really the only viable strategy and even then you still have glint making you a prime target for armor to target

[elder slate]

trails are worse. Not only are they easier to track to the source they let you know the exact angle you've been shot from nullifying the efort of say a good flank. Also trails obscure los at long ranges making follow-up shots all but impossible in some cases.

[patent sequoia]

Agreed, this change was extreme, and uneeded. Go play halo if ya want sniper trails.

[soft marsh]

okidoki should give his opinion about this thread and end it

[stone magnet]

glint are fine, they give a chance to player to see sniper before being shot and it make sniper duel really challenging, trails are stupid, you can fire one shot then you die cause everyone see you

[broken pulsar]

So it's somehow fine to not see a DMR user before getting shot by them?

[stone magnet]

i was talking about snipers not DMR, i'm fine with the idea of glinting dmr but since i no longer use them i can't tell if it's a good idea

[soft marsh]

yeah DMR dogging snipers lately

[broken pulsar]

obviously the solution is to add smoke trails to every gun in the game

[soft marsh]

Yeah why only snipers got that treatment

[stone magnet]

add trail to every gun, glint to every scope, let's make the game unplayable for everyone

[viscid belfry]

maybe DMRs get glint on med scopes but no trail

idk how else you could balance it

[woven arch]

Also seems a really odd choice as they already added a sniper nerf (med scope glint) and then rolled trails out before they even had a chance to see if scope glint had any balancing effect

[fresh agate]

#1184004829325053994Look at my clips and tell me what you think.
I think the update is fine.

[stone magnet]

i didn't even realised that but you're right

[woven arch]

The trails were already being previewed like 1 day after the med scope glint went live

[soft marsh]

it’s always sniper vs sniper but DMR are now getting popular and its becoming a problem to ARs and Snipers

Sniper update actually is more fun than last time

[woven arch]

Development times being what they are means trails must have been in development since before the med scope change

[stone magnet]

i really hope they will reverse this change

[soft marsh]

or they just add glints to dmr and revamp sniper stats

[stone magnet]

glint are fine really, trails are absolutely not

[fresh agate]

As someone who dabbles in programming I don't think so. There's so many ways to create a trail behind a bullet in games.

Like that is going to take maybe an hour max depending on how the game is set up

"In the Unity menu bar, go to GameObject > Effects > Trail. Select the Trail Renderer GameObject, and parent it to the GameObject that you want it to generate a trail for."
Wow, unity even has a thing for it

Again, don't know how Oki set it up, but thats an easy task

I haven't seen a trail close enough or long enough to see if theyre using the particle trail system or the trail renderer

[soft marsh]

that’s allat but let’s just agree trails needs a rework

[stone magnet]

the rework: right click -> delete

[soft marsh]

agreed, if it stays every gun should have trails

[stone magnet]

i don't know if i hate or love this idea 😂

[patent sequoia]

He did in my thread. His answer is this #1184004829325053994 message

So, we are simply using bolt actions wrong. Go play at a range where bullet trail is not a liability anymore. For closer range you always have to use a DMR.

[soft marsh]

yep I was there and he already said its skill issues but he agreed to my suggestion https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1183682362219962419

So at least there’s some buff to us recon mains

[patent sequoia]

We will have to wait and see, since the dust is far from settled.

[soft marsh]

Imagine he just nerfed all snipers

[patent sequoia]

Hell, IMO only the M200 needs bullet trails.

[patent sequoia]

It might be his vision. It is a small team, biases are prone to happen on smaller teams

[soft marsh]

Hoping the revamp give us more depth in recon gameplay

And its not straight nerf

[patent sequoia]

We will see, again we only can wait at this point. We certainly got his attention lol.

[soft marsh]

Despite the small player base of us recon mains we’re certainly the loudest so we got his attention lmao

[patent sequoia]

I disagree. Hard to measure which class playerbase is the largest among classes, or smallest. But it certainly has a very dedicated one.

[soft marsh]

Annoying one too but hey anything to get a buff

[civic yarrow]

Maybe actual bullet drop on m200

Smileface

[patent sequoia]

The thread that aim to diversify each sniper rifle probably is the best option.

[civic yarrow]

Ye there is only one sniper and its m200

It makes sniping trivial

[patent sequoia]

OkiDoki himself said he will look into making each rifle distinct from each other

[woven arch]

Yeah the rem 700 and the msr are pretty pointless

[winged birch]

For me the mid range scope glints were enough to make snipers noticeable by regular infantry. The trail makes sniper flanking (which is one thing that's supposed to be the rewarding thing to do in this game) almost completely pointless. It's already easy to locate nearby snipers by just sound only with this update (which by the way make suppressors completely pointless) so trails just make holding a position without repositionning after each shot quite untenable.
There's already a multitude of ways to know where a flanking sniper is.
If you get hit you have the red pointer. If you get killed your camera points at your killer.
Trails introduce a whole lot of issues for mid range snipers that are actually useful and provide something for the team. It just pushes more people to camp at spawn because there are less risks.
And I write all of that from the perspective of an infantry guy, I don't play sniper, I mostly play against them. And yes, they are frustrating, yes the interactions with them is poor, but smart positionning, smokes (which have been buffed quite a lot) and glints on now medium ranges are enough to not get killed that much often by snipers if you have more than two brain cells and let go of the W key from time to time.

Here are my two cents on the topic

TL;DR mid range glints was fine, trails are overkill, smoke grenade is your friend

If anything put the trail on RPG, that'd make the implementation of trails worthwhile

[patent sequoia]

Completely agree. And the fact they have more than enough tools to avoid getting one tapped in the head, is beyond frustrating. If you GUN and RUN in a semi realistic mil sim you will get killed. If you stand still to shot with over 100 degress of potential incoming fire and get shot, it is your problem

and well, you will get flanked, you will get side shooted. Do a big brain and out flank your flanker. It is a thing.

Every sniper is HOPELESS at below 100m if outflanked

[stone magnet]

everything is said

[verbal tide]

I'm astonished you took the context of that convo to mean buffs are coming. I would prepare yourself for massive bolt action nerfs to at least velocity based on that part of the thread

[woven arch]

Yep expect more nerfs

[halcyon torrent]

see #1184004829325053994 message. Only msg on the subject ive seen from him thus far, but i'm unsure if he's considering rebalancinf anything there

and ofc take the context of the thread into consideration, etc

[tame skiff]

I pretty much agree with him

[tidal wedge]

Glint already nerfed, scrubs complain about trails because they want to hardscope for 10 minutes in the same spot.

[tame skiff]

Yeah you're now forced to either rotate a lot or very thoroughly defend your spot

And you always have to think about angles before you start firing

Makes the class harder to play but doesn't reduce effectiveness by much if you're diligent

[elder slate]

Er no. When hardscoping in one spot the trails are pretty irrelevant. They are only relevant when you move a lot and utilise off angles because they make any given off angle only good for one shot.

[tidal wedge]

What kind of mental gymnastics is that? Lol.

Shooting 10 trails: irrelevant. Shooting one trail and changing spot: bad. ????

[tame skiff]

If you're in an off angle just set up a barricade in the direction of the enemy snipers and then nobody can shoot back?

[elder slate]

If you are capable of shooting a player they are capable of shooting back.

[elder slate]

If you are sat in 1 place hardscoping for ages everyone will see your glint and you'll get shot out pretty quickly anyway.

[tame skiff]

Peek, fire, hide for 2 seconds if you missed, peek again

It does require you to actually sniper duel the other person if they are a sniper

[elder slate]

yeah if you're sat miles away. If you are fairly close and 4 guys are looking at you with m4s you lose that unless the other players are all really shit. I really don't have an issue duelling snipers most are trash. My issue is being immediately spotted by 10 guys with m4s.

[tidal wedge]

The glint is not visible anymore unless someone is in your vision or close to your cone of vision. And it's way less pronounced and visible in many situations.

[tame skiff]

Don't peek 4 people at once???

I thought you said you were at an off angle

[elder slate]

If you're not engaging multiple players you're not providing any benefit to your team.

[tame skiff]

You are if you kill them one after the next?

[tidal wedge]

How do you engage multiple people at the same time with a bolt action? I'm very curious to hear this.

[elder slate]

I was at an off angle until I shot then they all follow the trail back to the source adn your off angle is no longer an off angle

[tame skiff]

As a sniper you need to only ENGAGE 1 person at a time

And then you kill them in one shot and widen your angle to the next person

[elder slate]

Very very easily when they are too dense to work out where you are shooting from.

No on is too dense to follow a direct line to you though

[tidal wedge]

???

You still have to sit there and cycle 3 times

At minimum

That's a lot of time

[elder slate]

As any class if you are only engaging one person at a time you are having a net 0 influence ona fight.

[tame skiff]

Uhhhh

[elder slate]

Have you ever played as a sniper?

[tidal wedge]

That's literally how you shoot to kill enemies? Bro thinks he's Rambo

[tame skiff]

Yeah like, last night I had a spot where I killed 15-20 enemies over the course of a couple minutes without moving by engaging them one at a time

Literally culled a push all by myself

[tidal wedge]

The only way you can possibly kill multiple people at the same time or close to the same time is if you have a decent rate of fire and 2/3 people aligned or grouped together, or explosives lol

[tidal wedge]

Apparently the definition of "at the same time" has changed on the dictionary then, I'll check it later

[elder slate]

You can engange multiple people without killing them simultaneously. As a solo sniper I frequently being the full focus of 5+ enemy snipers. The whole time they are focussing on me they are engaged with me and not my team that is pushing

[tidal wedge]

Sniper dueling is a very different experience than attacking other kinds of players.

They can't suppress you with volume of fire

[elder slate]

If tehy were any good they wouldn't need to suppress its one shot to kill I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue here. You can engage multiple people.

[tidal wedge]

Trails don't even really matter for sniper duels, as a sniper you already do counter sniping by checking the horizon and the sniper spots, and try to see someone, or a glint, or sandbags.

[tame skiff]

If you're peeking more than 1 enemy sniper at once you're taking unnecessary risk

[tidal wedge]

Snipers can't suppress you lol

That's why it's different

You dance around trying to get the headshot first

[elder slate]

That's a joke right? Also I aggree trails don't matter for sniper v sniper they matter for everythign else.

[tame skiff]

If there are 5 snipers that know your location it's hugely beneficial to only peek 1 at a time. By the time you've killed the first one or two, the third won't even be aiming at you any more

[tidal wedge]

Then why are you arguing about engaging multiple players, those players being SNIPERS, and then complaining that trails prevent you from doing that now but not before trails were added?

[elder slate]

if 5 snipers know your location chances are you can't peak them one at a time because they have all seen you in the same spot.

[elder slate]

I'm talking about engaging multiple players taht aren't snipers. It's no longer possible unless you are beyond 150m away or are doing so from behind your main line and in either case you are not going to be particularly beneficial to your team.

The solo flank sniper is no longer viable and was teh only way to actually be worthwhile to a team as a sniper.

[tidal wedge]

Snipers have never been beneficial to the team, you don't play objectives, you make less kills than someone on the frontline, you don't give trouble to vehicles, and you have no meaningful team utilities unlike many other games (for now).

[tame skiff]

Need to set up a better angle then

[tidal wedge]

And you can still flank

You just can't stand 10 minutes behind a tree and expect people to not eventually fire back

[tame skiff]

And <150m is not ideal sniper range, 150m is minimum optimal engagement range

[tidal wedge]

If anything the glint changes made it a lot easier because the angle at which glint becomes visible is much lower now.

[tame skiff]

You can put barricades down however you want to, and then peek around the edge of them

[elder slate]

I am frequently in the top 10 of 127v leaderboards as a sniper or should say I was. Back capping objectives solo, holding them stopping pushes from behind and being a nuisance from inside the enemy line. Bullet trails have meant you just get ran at immediately by 10 guys.

[tidal wedge]

Sandbags with the windows, place those down, and use the lean to get at the window's height

[tame skiff]

Unless all 5 snipers are standing within 3m of each other you can peek them one at a time

[elder slate]

that's typically how snipers are in bbr. 5 to a hilltop

[tame skiff]

Yeah this play style of sniper has been removed, you can still do that with a DMR or battle rifle if you really want to play recon

[tidal wedge]

If you back cap you're inside at the objective and engage at less than 100 meters. Which means trails once again have nothing to do with this.

[tame skiff]

But if anything they're trying to nerf the "rat" gameplay

It's funny but it's annoying to play against

[elder slate]

That was teh only playstyle that made recon valuable to a team. trails have everythign to do with this as you get spotted as beiung behind enemies instantly when before they would assume you were in front

[tidal wedge]

With not even the sky in the background to make the trails more visible, because you're in the mud with the others

[tame skiff]

This is just completely false, in a good spot you can still stop flanks and severely handicap enemy pushes

[tidal wedge]

At that range you spot people from the tracers of the bullets

[tame skiff]

And spot the rest of the push to make it easier for your team to fend off

[elder slate]

Simply put the change has killed what made the game fun to many. Myself included. Out thinking and out positioning in order to apply far more pressure than a single player can do on the frontlines. The change has lowered the skill ceiling of my preferred class. That is an objective truth. Whether or not you like that change is subjective but the effect on those player that could play in that way is objective.

[tidal wedge]

If you want to back cap effectively get other classes

[tidal wedge]

Lol claiming objective when it's not

[tame skiff]

Yeah it's not

[elder slate]

yeah a skill issue of those that couldn't cope with being outplayed and now need a helpful arrow to point them in the right direction

[tidal wedge]

Very empirical and scientific

[tame skiff]

If anything it raised the skill ceiling but also overall made it harder

[tidal wedge]

It seems to me that you're malding over this rather

[tame skiff]

Never heard that word before

[tidal wedge]

Guys remove spotting, it's a literal arrow hovering over people's heads lol

[elder slate]

I am. I backed the game early, bought the game for myself and others and bought all the supporter packs and now the playstyle I enjoyed has been removed.

[elder slate]

requires you to see the person to begin with.

[tame skiff]

If what you want to do is be a rat behind enemy lines you can still do that with literally any other gun type

If what you want to do is snipe you can also still do that

You just can't do both any more

[tidal wedge]

Once one is spotted they can even chill behind hard cover and you'll still see them for the duration. Not to mention spotting from the drone, so you don't even need line of sight.

[tame skiff]

These two playstyles I just described are like my main playstyles btw

But if you're behind enemy lines you're better off with a suppressed SMG or AR

[tidal wedge]

But actually you can, it's just never been effective to rat with a sniper rifle and back cap with it. At least you can have a pocket Vector (the Glock) but it's the wrong choice of class to begin with.

[tame skiff]

Yeah exactly

[elder slate]

yes. You can. That doesn't change the fact that the recon class' only meaningful interaction to the game is gone

[tame skiff]

Like bro

I get that this was how you had fun in the game and I'm sorry they took it away

But it's not recon's role you're describing

[tidal wedge]

Literally the end of the world this poor translucent trail. Dramatic.

[elder slate]

yes the drone spot is tupid and should not be in the game. That is a general consensus from what I have seen

[tame skiff]

And it's not how sniper rifles play

Recon with bolt action is still very powerful

I got top 10 on the team in 127 almost every game I sniped last night

[elder slate]

recon with a bolt action is pointless. everything you can do with it can be done with more effectiveness with another class

[tidal wedge]

Drone spotting is actually good and the only way to make the drone useful other than bomb drone for the memes (which is highly ineffective outside of free weekends lol)

[tame skiff]

Watched armies of people I pinged get easily killed by teammates

And sniped a ton of people

[tame skiff]

It's just not true

[elder slate]

you are the only person I have ever known to have that take. Drones should require manual spotting.

[tidal wedge]

Want one way to be useful to the team? Here.

[tame skiff]

You find a sick spot like 200m away off to the side of a frontline and you can still decimate people with a bolt action

[tidal wedge]

Then you need to hang around here more often. It got added because it was highly requested after pinging was temporarily removed.

[tame skiff]

I had several games last night where I had 60+ kills sniping, not in our spawn

Picking off enemies who were pushing the frontline and marking the ones I didn't get

I will add, it doesn't work on every map. Sometimes I try a few times, can't find any good spots and I switch classes

[elder slate]

cool. I'm glad you did. The way I played, the positioning I was previously able to take is no longer possible. The benfits I was able to provide to my team have been quashed. bolties are always easy af to spot if you actually look for them. The trail was a very unwarrented and unecessary nerf to a class that was already one of the weakest.

[tame skiff]

Yeah it's the same as the little bird nerf honestly

Some people were being too obnoxious with it and so they nerfed it hard

I'm not saying it's not a big nerf, it is

It also completely kills stealth sniping, which is a shame because people clearly liked that

[elder slate]

helis take serious skill to be good with. Nerfing them because a tiny minority can do things that majority cannot even come close to is never the correct way to go imo.

[elder slate]

Me XD

[tame skiff]

Yeah

Now you have to go fortified sniping or back line sniping

And back line sniping is bad

And fortified sniping is hard and requires a lot of map knowledge

[elder slate]

It's also just boring.

[patent sequoia]

Those are opposite things.

[tame skiff]

Fortified sniping is very engaging but it's hard

And you can spend 3 minutes getting to a spot and setting up and die as soon as you peek

[elder slate]

I can sit and snipe from a mile away all game and probably rack up kill sand have very few deaths but I am not being useful to the battle or having much fun. I enjoy the game most when I am doing well and also contributing to the win in a meaningful way. I don't feel that I can do that with the trails.

[tame skiff]

You still can, it's just a different play style

You focus on analyzing the map to find a spot and then at the spot analyze the angles and set up accordingly

[tidal wedge]

?

[woven arch]

Are you sure?

[real goblet]

🤔 What if :

• Bullet doesn't make a trail until 200m traveled.
• Bullet trail is in the LOD system same as the grass.

So : First, that'd make the bullet trail a bit less of a tell of where exactly it got shot from, but still give a good direction.

It'd also make the medium range sniping a lot less painful.

And for the second point, It'll make the people that aren't getting shot or close to the trail or point of impact, see it?

[woven arch]

Make the trail start at the same distance as glint and finish at the same distance as glint

[real goblet]

200m-800m on medium scope, infinite on long scope?

🤔

Or you mean of "when the glint is visible, the trail is also visible"?

[woven arch]

This. so visible from all directions but limited in length to the same length as the glint

[real goblet]

Sounds good

[small mortar]

How about the trail only lasts .5 to 1sec. 3sec is way the f to long

[broken pulsar]

I really don't think it's gonna make a big difference for the attentive players who would go sniper hunting anyway

I think we should just embrace this new feature and make the trails last one minute

[small mortar]

I mean as someone who played flanker recon (and yes i fed info to the team with spots and markers) the trails just fucked over everything I do.

Sure the attentive people will still try to bum rush me. It's why I move after a few shots and kills.
But now with trails even people with half the attention see the trail and are now actively looking.

The trail just killed an entire part of the class.

Flanking to a good spot that the enemy don't expect, then blasting 10-15 people in the back of the the head
stopping pushes by killing 5 medics chain reviving people

that's the shit I did.
now good luck

[broken pulsar]

Oki says that you should only be allowed to do that with SMGs because they are for short range

[small mortar]

i was 100-300m out on my flanks

[broken pulsar]

Then he says you should use DMR #1184004829325053994 message

[small mortar]

but aparently medics chain reviving get but hurt when a competent flanker domes their skull for the 6th time in 30 sec

ah yes. the dmr.
i used that for like an hour day 1 then said fuck that.

but yeah. i love having every assault rifle spray at me from 200m and still effectively kill.

but oki is right. aparently if i want to flank i nees to be 1500m away

smh

[fickle cliff]

Like Shiryu said, good luck flanking behind enemy push and taking out that cluster of 10 people being chain revived. Part of the fun was also the fact that you were able to conceal yourself pretty well if you were utilizing narrow angle and lot of depth, that fun is now also gone. Trail and new ping system is the dumbest things they have added this game.

[small mortar]

People that say recon is weak have never had a good flanking recon.

As a flanker I sat around 200-500m from the frontline of the fight.

As the flanker I:

• acted as a mobile spawn for my squad. generally getting them close to other points to back cap
  -picked off enemy flankers
  -put bullets in the backs of the head of squad of medics all chain reviving the front line.
  -swapped attention over to my squad that is now currently back capping and picking off enemies trying to surround and kill them
  -hit chopper pilots that think they are safe to fly in a straight line since they are still over their territory

yes I used medium scopes. glint wouldn't affect my flanker playstyle

the fucking 3sec trail kills my playstyle

the audio que and sounds alone would be fine.
the fucking 3sec trail is dumb

[winged birch]

One thing that's worth mentioning is that certain engagement distances aren't exclusive to a certain category of weapons, they tend to overlap for example ARs and BRs can shoot very well on a 50-100 meters. Dmrs and bolt action work very well at 300 meters.

[small mortar]

yep. if I was around 200-300 I could be killed by ar.

[winged birch]

Of course each weapon type has its distance where it's the master but that doesn't prevent mean my Battle rifle will systematically lose to an SMG at CQC because it's the SMG's preferred range. Yes the SMG will have an advantage because it's in its effective range but that doesn't mean it's the only thing usable in CQC

All of this to say that the "Switch to DMR" argument is only half an argument

[small mortar]

This 100%

[winged birch]

The new audio and glints are completely fine, trails are overkill and punish active snipers that are actually helping the team on points

[small mortar]

sure I could get some nasty 50m chain kills with snipers. but I was at a massive disadvantage. and it was coming off a flank.
I 100% would have been better with an AR or smg at that range. could have went from 3 kills to like 10.

but I was out of position with the weapon of my choice.

I shouldn't be just fucked if I'm at 350m with a sniper all cause a 3 second trail let's anyone at a passing glance know where I am

[small mortar]

100 this and the point I was trying to make above

audio + medium scope glint is 100% fine.

[patent sequoia]

Well, definition 1 can imply science, but in general I've used it a lot more in its second use. Guess I learnt something new. empirical:
See synonyms for: empiricalempirically on Thesaurus.com
adjective
derived from or guided by direct experience or by experiment, rather than abstract principles or theory:
Empirical evidence of changes in kelp consumption was gathered by measuring the bite marks in seaweed fronds.

depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, and hence sometimes insufficiently authoritative, especially as in medicine.

[woven arch]

Science is literally based on empirical evidence not the opposite of it

You're thinking of philosophy

Science is basically the study of the empirical

[patent sequoia]

According to definition 1 it is. According to definition 2, it is literally not using the scientific method.

[woven arch]

2 is not a commonly used definition

[patent sequoia]

It's the one I've heard most, but it could be a regional thing. Either way, I do accept your definition.

[woven arch]

Any scientist you ask will give you definition 1

[patent sequoia]

I am a top level researcher in the US and no, we don't.

Granted I am not American tho

[woven arch]

Go ask your colleagues what they understand by empirical evidence. Unless this is one of those bullshit Americanisms that means the exact opposite of what Americans think it does

[small mortar]

The only two things sniper trails do is
A. look cool
B. turns the recon into an unhelpful camper.

Glint on medium scope. fine. Honestly it might help. if you turn a corner and see glint down a hallway you know that your in a sniper sight line. you either run the fuck away or try to Quickdraw the sniper.
adds counter play to the closer sniper but also tension to the enemy.

[real goblet]

Can you guys discuss off topic in off topic or dm please?

[woven arch]

Like when Americans say "I could care less"when they mean "I couldn't care less"

[patent sequoia]

Using your definition is actually reductive, as not all science is experimental or the observation of empirical experiments.

[woven arch]

At some point you have to measure or observe something if you want to move from a hypothesis to anything concrete.

[patent sequoia]

That is a simple truth.

[woven arch]

This

[patent sequoia]

Sigh. No. Many times you can't, and not because you can't empirically prove it, it is not science.

I vote for removing trails, plain off. How about we make a simple poll? Gauge the community in it?

Ain't science but light at least validate a bit either choice.

[real goblet]

gotta ask Oki to do one. If you make a poll in suggestion, it'll get deleted.

[woven arch]

Because half the community will vote to keep them just to make snipers miserable

[patent sequoia]

I'm aware of that, hence why I have not already. I suggested it and was ignored for now in favor of the sound rework thingy.

[winged birch]

Remove the trails but keep them on the M200 heeheehoohoo

[patent sequoia]

Maybe. We don't know do we?

[patent sequoia]

I'd support that

[woven arch]

It would give some reason to use the msr

[winged birch]

M200 has such velocity, it turns BBR into monkey island, a simple point and click

Without any downsides so everyone uses it and it's tiring

[patent sequoia]

The rifles being unique themselves is another problem. They are mostly just eventually better sticks instead of being unique. Solo did say he would address this.

Oki*

[patent sequoia]

I already advocated for a big reduction on bullet speed across all bolt actions and DMRs

Current values are basically tank guns

The IRL bullet speed of the m200 is like 927m/s

[woven arch]

TBF the downside is that it holds no ammo

[patent sequoia]

No real downside if it's the also the only rifle with body shot kills at 900meters

[woven arch]

Not really sure why the game doesn't use irl bullet velocities

[patent sequoia]

No clue either. My guess, it was to make sniping easier, since slower bullets means a lot more drop

[winged birch]

A bit of justice for my Rem700 boi, he has like only mid stats except I think the bolt speed

[patent sequoia]

But it was so easy we are now using dumb ass nerfs that belong in Halo and Quake, like bullet trails

[woven arch]

That would be more of an issue if you couldn't zero your scope to account for drop

[patent sequoia]

We also don't have functional mil dots on the sniper scopes

They are literally for decoration

[woven arch]

No or the ability to change brightness on the red dots

[patent sequoia]

A fellow in Steam made a painful guide that makes em usable, but if RPGs have functional sights, snipers should too

They probably decided not to because of the zeroing mechanic + rangefinder

[woven arch]

Yeah it wouldn't be hard to implement.

[woven arch]

Why not have both thigh

Though

[winged birch]

Rangefinder + RPG scope is one of the best kit in the game fight me

[patent sequoia]

Exactly

[winged birch]

And scoped RPG can't zero, only Iron sights RPG can

[patent sequoia]

You don't have to zero them, you have a functional scope that encompasses it's entire range

Snipers get zero and no functional sights rhough

[winged birch]

Only up to 500 meters, above that was trial and error to find significant milestones

[real goblet]

#1184004829325053994 message At least we have good news 👀

[woven arch]

I still need to read up on how to use it. It's like looking though graph paper

[patent sequoia]

It's easy once you find out, the in-game description has a guide

It's very well made. Snipers should get the same

[woven arch]

Changes doesn't necessarily mean good news

[winged birch]

Took a while to experiment in the shooting range to get the reading for a rocket at 1km :P

[patent sequoia]

And that was about sniper rifle stats, not mechanics

[real goblet]

Oki's goal ain't making worse changes tho 💀

[stone magnet]

we can add all the arguments we want, dev said he will not change anything even if everyone see what's wrong

[patent sequoia]

I'm surprised they did not simply program the warhead to explode after 500m

Cool that you can do it though

[woven arch]

He's an assault main, he might just want to dick us over some more

[winged birch]

Have outsniped snipers at 1km+ on multiple occasions

Very satisfying

[woven arch]

With an RPG?

[patent sequoia]

Yeh, been killed by some. Crazy ass RPG at long ass range.

[winged birch]

If anything trails and smokes belong to the RPG

[winged birch]

Yes

[patent sequoia]

It is possible lmao

[real goblet]

💀 He might be a little bias. But that doesn't mean he wants a worse game.

[patent sequoia]

I totally agree.

[real goblet]

RPG def need a trail and smoke

[winged birch]

And that's coming from an engineer main with a lot of kills on the RPG

[woven arch]

No but he might see our continued existence as a worse game.

[woven arch]

Also needs the irl lack of safety. If you bump the end of the rocket, it goes off.

[winged birch]

Remove the safety cap before firing

[real goblet]

Well sniper have proven to be a pain when you're on the other side of the barrel in almost every games.

[woven arch]

Isn't every class a pain when you're on the wrong side of the barrel?

[woven arch]

Safety cap removed, don't trip over

[real goblet]

The sniper has an added exceptional frustration compared to other guns.

[patent sequoia]

Man, there is a reason no one bitches about AWPers in CS GO

[real goblet]

It's not as worse as Grenade launcher tho 💀

[woven arch]

But accounts for a dramatically smaller chunk of kills

[patent sequoia]

We actually need proof of this

[real goblet]

CS:GO is one of the few with "good balance" on it 👀

[patent sequoia]

I've irked OKI too much about it, but he needs both, community feedback and data driven decision making to succeed here.

[woven arch]

True I only have my own limited observations. I don't think the stats API is working yet though

[real goblet]

true

[winged birch]

Unrelated but where's my RPG gold skin ? I have the 10K kills >:(

[small mortar]

Fuck yeah. m200 shouldn't be cqc or medium range anyway

[patent sequoia]

Peoples feelings and echo chambers can ruin a game easily. I only know of ONE game that has a fully community driven balance board, and it almost died trying

and it is Mechwarrior Online

and they are SUCH passionate nerds about their game, that they do have a good balance perspective almost everyone in the community likes.

AND they did a lot of data.

[winged birch]

Data would definetly help

[woven arch]

Echo chambers only get worse as a community shrinks, too

[patent sequoia]

Which has happened

we are at nearly 5 - 10% the plkayerbase. Retention is very low.

[woven arch]

I could do the API for them probably. That's the kind of shit I do for work. Unity is c# iirc

[patent sequoia]

And I can easily tell you why. Probably the preferred intro class you would pick? Assault or Recon or Medic

[winged birch]

No engineer ? :(

[patent sequoia]

get into Recon, find out you need to click 3 times to cycle a bolt, you need to steady your aim. you have massive glint, and reveal your position with every shot

Hard bounce inmmediatly

It can even be so bad they just try medic or assault, get overhelmed, and leave.

people hating sniper actually dont realize the greatest recon hunters are other recons

I play almost exclusively to hunt other recons

[woven arch]

Have they fixed it so it shows you when you unlock new bolts now?

[patent sequoia]

Nope

you still never find out that you have a new bolt that can cycle in ADS or out cycle

WHICH, if i may add, is turbo stupid.

the BASIC bolt should do both at lowest speed, and the BEST bold should be ADS in, manual cycle but turbo fast

[woven arch]

Ikr, I have no idea why they don't fix that

[patent sequoia]

single dev is overwhelmed hyperfocusing on what he thinks it is his biggest issue right now.

and that is.... sound effects so you can tell who is shooting at you in the middle of a combat zone.

[woven arch]

The answer is: everyone

[patent sequoia]

which... idk.... While I agree hearing 250 rifles firing at the same time on 3D will blow my eardrums, current sounds system is okay.

you can tell when you are getting shot at

I dont know why the obsession is that players need to pin point their attacker based on sound. We forking have eyes.

Probably trying to crack down the cases were you are shot from VERY far away.... again.

[raw patio]

Probably because everyone is running around faster than Usain Bolt crossed with Reggie Bush 😆

[patent sequoia]

Without having to stop at all, ever, by the way. They just dont need stamina.

[rugged basin]

Bring back no glint on medium scopes, keep the trails

[green sky]

Glint is a major factor in spotting a sniper, but I believe the glint is a bit overkill by how bright it is. I'd honestly ask for an attachment lens on the scopes to maybe lessen the glint or even make it non-existent.

The trails need to go, as if the developer's of this game are seeking for realism.

Realistic poly FPS game, yeah...

[rugged basin]

It's so bad playing agressive with sniper on medium ranges. You get instant lasered my the M4

[rugged basin]

The attachment to remove glint would be a silver lining for me

[edgy karma]

if you are dying because of glint you just suck at being a sniper. Trails are a problem currently though.

[green sky]

If we can't do anything about the glint whilst having the recommended or personal preference scope, then it's clear that it has nothing to do with our playstyle.

[edgy karma]

it kinda does man.

ranges with no glint

ranges with less glint, lessening glint

a very tight cone that is barely larger than what you see in scope

[green sky]

All I'd ask for at the very minimum is to at least lower its exposure.

[edgy karma]

if you want anything else you just want to be buffed becasue you can't learn to play

what do you think the cone tightning was?

it cut the people who see you by 80%

the Area that people can see you I mean.

mediums don't have glint till 200, and its not really visable till 350, and max at 400 I believe.

I think that might apply to longs as well, but I'm unsure about that

[green sky]

I understand that.

[rugged basin]

Damn, I wish I was as cool as you

[green sky]

heh

[edgy karma]

sorry that you apperently suck so hard that common sense seems "cool" to you.

[rugged basin]

This kid is clueless

[green sky]

Practice doesn't make perfection, but it can improve your playstyle.

Said by someone who put around 18k hours into CS:GO... No life from the age of 7

[edgy karma]

yeah, so learning where you can sit with minimum people watching you is a part of that.

moving when you take fire is alo part of that. glint should hardly effect you at all.

trails are going to hopefully be fixed soon enough, but even then if your aren't in the middle of nowhere you can play around them

[edgy karma]

ah ok, speaking like a common twitter troll. no need to interact with you anymore.

[edgy karma]

you instantly lose all of the since you are still hear talking about how big brain you are.

[chrome snow]

unfortunately oki seemingly hates snipers but instead of limiting the amount of snipers on a team he nerfs the bolt actions into the ground, trails never needed to exist, nor did the entire lobby hearing sniper fire change

[edgy karma]

the buff of everyone hearing it so all they know is "somewhere on the map in that direction"

[fringe abyss]

This still hasn't been fixed...

I also think you should bolt faster with a deployed bipod. The trails basically kill bipod snipers. With the exception of the m200, because its velocity allows it to snipe infantry from further away.

Maybe the MSR shouldn't have trails.

[hollow viper]

What about a glint that becomes more visible from farther away?

Would force players to balance range for advantage and sniper glint for visibility

[edgy karma]

literally how it works

[edgy karma]

no glint till 200, glit gets brighter till like 500? and then gets dimmer till 800? where its no longer visible.

[green sky]

I know for sure that there's glint below 200...

More like 50

[edgy karma]

yeah no, that shouldn't be happening. at least with mediums. its not really clear if long range scopes follow the exact same rules as the mediums, but it sounds like they do.