pif-hoenn-discussion

[clear lichen]

According to IF dex Normal/Flying+Normal/Flying is still Normal/Flying

But idk if it accounts for the special rule or not

The fusiondex.org website I mean

[trail hull]

No I was talking about Flying + normal flying

[clear lichen]

Flying+Normal/Flying idk what would happen

But I tried Mono Fire+Bug/Fire

And it didn't work

There is the special rule

But would it hold?

That I'm not so sure

It's not like I can directly check since fusiondex.org only has currently existing Pokemon

I could check Pokeathlon

[trail hull]

The special rule only apply to flying normal

[clear lichen]

Thing is, Normal/Flying and Normal/Flying bypasses the rule

Which is why I'm worried Flying+Normal/Flying would as well

[trail hull]

I think it would work

[prime dust]

well there's only two real interactions that can happen fromt hat

[clear lichen]

It could be fusiondex.org not working well

I'm not sure

[prime dust]

either you get a pure flying type or a normal/flying mon

[clear lichen]

Yup, those are the 2 scenarios

[tawny fox]

where is this from

[clear lichen]

Fusiondex.org would have me to believe it'd be the latter but I'm unsure

[trail hull]

#fusion-faq

[clear lichen]

There's the chance it's inaccurate

Because it isn't maintained directly by a dev

[prime dust]

well we can kind of get an idea from noivern/any mon with flying secondary

[clear lichen]

And I have not tried fusing 2 Normal/Flying types

Because like

[clear lichen]

Why would I?

Pokeathlon has contradicting view to Fusiondex.org

[prime dust]

because birb

[clear lichen]

Where 2 Normal/Flying types become a Pure Flying type

So idk which is correct

[clear lichen]

I'm pretty sure I spotted an error in the original Pokeathlon fusion build

[prime dust]

showdown uses different stuff from the game

[clear lichen]

Before it was revealed to this server

So maybe it is incorrect there too

I dunno

[prime dust]

when the game is concerned 2 normal/flying mons yield a normal/flying or flying/normal mon

[clear lichen]

Iirc, it was the game insisting to use base game event only data

As that'd usually be the only way to get the Pokemon in question in the context of Gen 7

[tawny fox]

would this make normal/flying have the least amount of mons then?

[clear lichen]

Probably the most consequential thing I've ever done tbh

Someone has to check in game, but I'm busy being lazy rn

[dark saddle]

It would be really cool if a meteor dropped and destroys like a random house somewhere and that is how you get a certain number of pokemon, the house gets rebuild the next day. But every day its a different house that gets hit.

[prime dust]

eh

i feel like that is a bit much

i'd rather it just at most block the entrance to a place

[quaint matrix]

To be technical you can still make a lot of Normal/Flying types

And some of them are great as that

Case in point (wow look at that they're all Snorlaxes)

[craggy nexus]

Yeah the only think imposible is doing mono flying and its going to be till tornadus gets added

[quaint matrix]

Yea

[inland jewel]

i thought, by fusing a Pidgeotto and a Fearow together its just flying type

[full bison]

According to Infinite Dex, it just makes a Flying/Normal type

[quaint matrix]

I can confirm in-game too

Eh well I can try it again

Yeah see?

(This was gonna be a Doduo + Fearow fusion)

[west sonnet]

Yeah because nearly all flying types are secondarily flying, the game will treat flying as a priority type and will still carry over a secondary

[ripe parcel]

Regarding the pure flying type conversation, one thing I kept asking myself while I was playing Infinite Fusion was that it would be nice if there an item that allowed you to pick and choose which types came from the Pokemon being fused. For instance, let's say you have a Fire/Rock type and a Ground/Ice type. The resulting fusion would either be Fire/Ground or Ice/Rock but I'd be interested in a Fire/Ice fusion but due to the system, is impossible.

So maybe if there was an item or an NPC later on in the game who can allow you to mix and match the typings, I think it could help and probably bring a lot more variety to teams

[quaint matrix]

i think your example in this case would be Fire/Ground since with those hypothetical typing fusion materials you can get Fire/Ice (and Rock/Ground)

[alpine rune]

I think with the restrictions, its enough variety

Youre not forced to use gardevoir

use something else

I feel like the problem with the dual typing being separated to head and body exclusives is that some fusions have better stats but worse typing while the inverse is... well the inverse, better typing but worse stats

but yea even with that surely theres 20 something mons in the roster you can still use and make different combinations

I guees the argument of "But I want to use my favourite pokemon" still applies

-# ||Just another pointless Zan rant of how he hates gardevoir because of this game||

[prime dust]

this is part of the reason why frog won't randomize certain things, as it breaks the point of fusion

and this item would sort of do the same, why use normal fusions when you can just create specific fusions

it is bad enough as it is given some of the more common overpowered things that exist now

would just get exponentionally worse

[full bison]

Imagine the Showdown scene if fusion types were that customizable

[prime dust]

they'd likely need to expand the ban list by a wide margin

[full bison]

Would be like a slightly more predictable Tera situation

slightly

[weak trellis]

late but you can make a pure flying mon with one specific case I think?

||flying plate arceus and a flying/normal mon but arceus is on the head I think?||

[ripe parcel]

Alright then, I guess that's fine. It's just I'd always find myself thinking that I like the design of this fusion but the typing ends up being crap

I am curious though, if this will be a 1:1 map of the Hoenn from Emerald (I assume it's Emerald) or like the previous map, it'll have a few additions and such

[prime dust]

they are doing a weird mix of ruby/sapphire/emerald and ORAS

so expect some extra stuff being slotted in

maybe not right away mind you

depends on what frog has planned

[ripe parcel]

Cool, I guess my mind went to how the Ice Cave became a mountain or how there was an actual sea route between Kanto and the Sevii Islands

I loved little things like that

[prime dust]

i get you

PIF Hoenn might have stuff like that, we don't know for sure

we "might" see a demo in 6 months or so

i think i heard rumors of that going up to slateport so, no idea what secrets might slide in

[full bison]

*5 months

The 6 months timeframe was given a month ago, therefore the timeframe of about 5 months is probably more up to date

[outer matrix]

So, the demo will likely release on October or November...?

[full bison]

Perhaps

I'll personally be impressed with anything before late November, considering how time consuming game development can be

[prime dust]

i mean frog can maybe copy paste most of the PIF code and apply it to hoenn where applicable

that is bound to cut down dev time

most of his work will be maps/tiles, npcs, dialogue, pokemon placement, and any "extras" he decides to toss in

[trail hull]

so around legends z-a release

[full bison]

To be fair a lot of those extras are stuff like dynamic weather, which likely took a bit to implement and likely has some bugs to iron out

Then there's the issue of contests, which would be a whole other can of worms

[trail hull]

me somehow winning the contest with the creepiest mr mime fusion available

all of that because I forced fed it pokeblocks to max out the cutenes stat

[full bison]

I do wonder how the contest effects and classifications of Gen 7 will be decided, considering Gen 7 moves never existed in a game with contests.

[trail hull]

if we do get contest

[full bison]

Contests were a pretty big part of Gen 3's identity

It was straight up the modus operandi of the Gen 3 anime's deuteragonist

I feel like Frog not adding contests would be more surprising than them being left out

[outer matrix]

Contests + placing hats on Pokémon

Like gen 5's Pokémon musical

[full bison]

Gen 4's Contests also had a dress-up section.

[outer matrix]

Any sprites that almost take up the entire canvas would look funny in contests

If the sprites get tilted left and right and hop off the ground

[full bison]

I might make a Google poll to see what contest types people think would make the most sense for each Gen 7 move, just out of curiosity. I do think it's an interesting con to be had, assuming Frog hasn't already made his decisions on that matter

[trail hull]

Bring any ntm sprite for an instant win

[trail hull]

Maybe Pokémon essentials already has the support for it

[prime dust]

well maybe, maybe not

given they got abandoned after gen 4

looks like the main reasons I'm seeing is lack of popularity and the difficulty of designing them

plus the near constant addition of new stuff

while also phasing out other stuff

[tawny fox]

how long does it take to add one pokemon to this game

[prime dust]

uh

no idea

i think the lowest addition count i've seen is 5

it can vary depending on the mon

if it is something normal, like say pachirisu, it would mostly just be a matter of figuring out what routes to put it on for classic and remix, and then giving the spriters time to make sprites...so, figure at least 2-4 months

if it is a legendary, like say Yveltal, frog would create a custom event [and maybe map] for getting that pokemon, and again, giving time to the spriters to make sprites...that might take 4-6 months

[tawny fox]

Would there be like a pool of pokemon being worked on at the same time

[prime dust]

those are guesses and in no way actual accurate time tables for additions

[tawny fox]

obv

[prime dust]

usually yes, there is a pool of mons getting added

[tawny fox]

Game development take so long

if I won the lottery, im dumping money into this haha

[prime dust]

6.0 brought in 45 in mons
6.1 brought in 4 mons and fixed a bug with one mon resulting it the "shift" having its own dex entry [basically making it we got 5]
6.4 brought in 31?

[tawny fox]

no??????

[prime dust]

money can't be involved

that is the BIGGEST red flag we could wave

[tawny fox]

uhhhhh

cant?

[prime dust]

would get the project at minimum either cease and desisted/dmcaed

at worst...lawsuit

[tawny fox]

so wait, frogz cant use the money from someone else to purchese better equipment?

[prime dust]

nope

he can only use his own funds

the moment we use something even like patreon or kofi to fund the project, we sign a death warrant and bring forth the guillotine

[tawny fox]

how does that make any sense its not like Im buying something from him

[prime dust]

Nintendo

that is why it makes sense

Uranium had money involved

[tawny fox]

I meant like a personal transfer

[prime dust]

look what happened with that

even that wouldn't work

no money involvement from the fan base in any capacity

it just outright spells disaster

[tawny fox]

not even from like his friends?

[velvet root]

For short if money gets handed the nintendo ninjas come out and assasinate the game and sue frog into the abyss

[tawny fox]

thats wild

[surreal basin]

Kinda crazy how hard it is to make this game and not earn anything from it

[prime dust]

it is one of the unofficial golden rules the fan base has made in regards to romhacks/mods/fan games

"No money"

[tawny fox]

thats such a gray area tho

[prime dust]

the only time i see money involved is if the dev/project is in a country that gives 0 fucks

[tawny fox]

how would they define fan compared to someone who isnt a fan

[prime dust]

i mean if you are making a romhack/mod/fan game you are a fan, same with playing the games

and it isn't a gray area

like i said before, Uranium was a well known project and got shut down because of money [and some other stuff]

[tawny fox]

i hear ya

im just talking tho not trying to find an exploit

[surreal basin]

With a company as big as Nintendo, when they sue u, they will probably make sure if the money isn’t earned from ur boss ur or parents, it’s a fan

[tawny fox]

because the way ninitendo is, is just so fing scummy

[prime dust]

we know, but not much can be done about that

[surreal basin]

If only they would fund games like these

[prime dust]

pft

we'd be happy if they would at least just let us do this without fear of a lawsuit

[velvet root]

If they did you would have to pay 60€ for the game and 10 for every spritepack

[tawny fox]

they would rather have a warriors death then ever have a thought about this

[prime dust]

or cease and desist

[surreal basin]

Good point

[prime dust]

its why we generally think GameFreak doesn't mind/care about stuff like this

[tawny fox]

Is frogz ok atleast?

like mentally, with all of this

[velvet root]

But ngl imo Gamefreak should be open to buy fakemon or so from artists
If they did that we would have a flying type Eeveelution and mega Flygon

[prime dust]

i don't think they can until Nintendo [and The Pokemon Company] lets us do our thing without those death warrants

[tawny fox]

nintendo is like the north korea of gaming

they gonna send assassin out to get game

[prime dust]

there was a dark area late last year/early this where there was a real chance the game would stop entirely [we try to not bring the subject of what happened up because it can cause a bit of a war in the chat]

but outside that frog seems fine

[tawny fox]

Reason I asked that is because not a lot of people usually think of the mental health of the devs, usually its with indie or fan game devs

and yea this stuff takes way too long to do, only dedication and pure will/love for the franchise makes this all a reality

[prime dust]

we try not to go too crazy on frog with stuff...though, there is one instance where we pushed things [he asked for it tho]

#pif-hoenn-discussion message [the point in question]

back before 6.0 he put up a poll for us to vote on what we wanted to get added into the game...

[tawny fox]

whats so bad about that

i swear if people got a little pissy over not having a starter being added right off the bat is just utterly speechless

[outer matrix]

I think we're missing just a few dragon types after this and last year's batch

One from gen 5 and 7 I think

[frank pagoda]

i have a question if anyone could answer

how do i get magic boots

[tawny fox]

complete base mon pokedex

[frank pagoda]

anyother way

[tawny fox]

nope

that the only way i

i ythink

[frank pagoda]

fr?

[tawny fox]

yea

[frank pagoda]

on what mode

[tawny fox]

idk

[frank pagoda]

hmm

what if i beat the elit 4 what about then

[tawny fox]

bro just play duh game bro

honestly the only way to get them is by doing the way i said before

so yea

just keep catching mons,

[frank pagoda]

alright i guess but on randomized mode it will be deficult

and if i unfuse a mon does that count

[tawny fox]

yea

aslong as you have the base form

[frank pagoda]

at least thats good

[tawny fox]

if you want, you could just shuffle mons and keep doing that

til you get them all

but thats kinda boring tbh

[frank pagoda]

yeah i guess

[tawny fox]

The way I plan to play is to beat the full game first

[frank pagoda]

but do i need legendaries too

[tawny fox]

then do it

its funner in the long run that way

[velvet root]

Randomize mode wouldnt counte
Has to be classic or Remix

[frank pagoda]

So I gotta start from the start huh

[frank pagoda]

What if I beat the elite 4 tho it won't count will it

[velvet root]

Whats with beating the E4?

[frank pagoda]

it wouldnt give me acces to the magic boots right

[prime dust]

the boots are only obtainable on classic or remix [that hasn't been randomized] and you catch all 501 base pokemon

[frank pagoda]

So I don't need to start over?

[prime dust]

you do

if your save is randomized it is locked out of earning the boots

?tag debug

[opal trail]

Magic Boots are an IN GAME reward for catching all 501 Pokemon in a non-randomized file (Dex number 1-501). After doing so, the Developer in Celadon will reward you with them. Putting them on will unlock DEBUG options that you can play with.

Use ?tag proof to see how you get the Dex Completionist Role for earning the Magic Boots in Discord.

[prime dust]

sorry brain is mini fried right now

[frank pagoda]

I see

Well can you at least tell me what is the fastest way possible to do it

[prime dust]

start a fresh save in classic or remix and just start working towards the goal

there is no real documented way to fast track it

[frank pagoda]

Okay thanks for the advice tho

[velvet root]

I tried to nearly not fuse at all (only team of 6) and dont even fuse my team until they fully evolved.
Catching every first stage pokemon I can crossing off the routes and quests one by one
Actually was way more fun than one expect

Only annoying thing was catching dratini in safarie zone cuz I wanted to finish all Kanto mons before E4

[frank pagoda]

Thanks man

[flat glade]

Will there be an endgame that includes double battles?

[flat glade]

?

[full bison]

Considering the base PIF game has a setting that allows you to make all the trainer fights into Doubles, I'm going to say that's probably already a given

[flat glade]

It does? Where?

[full bison]

Just go into the options menu and scroll down, you should see a setting to make battles into 2v2s or even 3v3s.

[rain locust]

excited to see lrxc stream battle factory in if

[full bison]

I'm genuinely curious to see the kind of fusions that Frontier Brains would use. I imagine there would be a decent amount of thought put into how powerful they would be.

[trail hull]

hoenn aside honestly with the confirmed by frog lore of fuusion becoming mroe and more common we need an evil team that either espise fusion and don't use them (they see it as unatural ) or that goes beyond what we currently have (fuse a fusion or fuse human)

[prime dust]

maybe both

they start off as despising the idea of fusions as it isn't natural but as the story progresses and their desire to fulfill their goal that stance shifts into the aspect of "win at any cost, circumstances be damned" and starts using special fusions or fuses themselves with a pokemon

[full bison]

If we ever get a PIF Unova, that will probably be Team Plasma's whole thing. Can't imagine someone as dedicated to the well-being of Pokemon as N signing off on gene splicing.

And going beyond with fusion was kinda Team Rocket's thing in base PIF, no? Their whole thing was trying to make triple fusion happen to make the strongest Pokemon possible

[trail hull]

no , I was talking more of fusion²

[next flare]

Maybe they could extend fusion to more than just living things with some kind of “Reality Splicer”
Fuse an eevee with house
Fuse a Hoothoot with a printer

[tacit saddle]

hoothoot printer? put a Bird in a Printer? printers are annoying enough as is

[outer matrix]

Fuse trapinch with a stapler

[velvet root]

Omg I found out we need gen 5 starters now

[outer matrix]

Pigpig, duckduck, who's next

[full bison]

Wyrdeer isn't eligible, but if it was we could have Deerdeer when fused with Deerling

[weak trellis]

||Sharpsharp||

[full bison]

Sandsand

[junior tiger]

Rotom phone

[narrow pilot]

Zigzagoon

[sleek nest]

oh i know, team obsidan

because minecraft

[random dragon]

Then one of the grunts says “DUCKET JOCKEY” and everyone trashes their Pc/Laptop

[red panther]

Goose

[grizzled marsh]

/tag proof

?tag proof

[opal trail]

Hey trainer! Are you trying to prove that your Pokédex is 100% full so you can get Pokédex Completionist role? Send an image where a moderator can see both the discord channel you are in and PIF with the game dev giving you the magic boots, just like in the picture. Don't forget to ping @ moderator! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/700790080175996938/1237952585206468668/image.png?ex=67510e30&is=674fbcb0&hm=3578b328e18a0d5721dc8fdf0d50f2fe386e42bd75c4f12067e7bf8a774ffff1&

[thin pawn]

When hoenn drops I want a Relicanth/Machoke fusion that looks like kars from jojo

[drowsy trench]

im jusy hoping we have access to gen 8 pokemon ngl

i really wanna do ray ray with a certain sky hand lol

or necrozma and a certain giant hand lol

[full bison]

If that's ever gonna happen, it's going to be a looooong ways away. Considering Gen 8 Pokemon aren't compatible with the version of Poke Essentials the games run on and the effort it would take to update them to a more modern version

[tacit saddle]

its been confirmed over and over again that 8+ will not be in the game

to add onto what timmy said, the dev just doesnt have an interest in it

[celest mist]

Plus the pokedex is already complicated with fusions I would rather not have to make a spreadsheet of all the Pokemon iv already fused

[tacit saddle]

and also yeah we just got, what

40? more pokemon?

actually how many hold on

64

[celest mist]

Nice

[fluid mesa]

Couldn’t we just… have two Pokédex Styles Like the Classic Pokédex the National Dex? One for The originals, and one for the Fusions???

[tacit saddle]

im not 100% sure what you're suggesting here

[fluid mesa]

Remember when the Pokédex had the National dex feature?

[tacit saddle]

because really the issue isnt in the dex

its in the amount of fusions we have as is

we've been boosted to 319,790 fusions

but also generally blah blah blah since the convo is specifically gen 8+ it just boils down to dev pref. and pokemon essentials

[fluid mesa]

If you added a “Fusion Dex” tab, you could theoretically separate the Pokédex into two different categories, the original way the Pokédex… and the “Fusiondex”.

[tacit saddle]

dont see a point, since the dex is separated as is technically

[fluid mesa]

Huh, I suppose that makes sense…

[tacit saddle]

1-501 (in game) in the dex is all the base pokemon. beyond that (502+) is fusions

or whatever number the fusions starts at

oh no it is 502

i forgor they updated the bot with the 565 now

[fluid mesa]

True, but in Pokémon BW2, you could switch between the Pokédex tab and National Dex Tab as well… maybe it could be implemented to work like that?

[tacit saddle]

i dont see a point as its not an issue

dex works fine as is, does its job just fine

[light garden]

I don't think "Worksfineasis,Doesitsjobjustfine" is in PIF. :thinking: Did you misspell something?

[tacit saddle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tacit saddle]

Excuse You.

[fluid mesa]

🤷

[viscid fossil]

peak comedy.

[fair jewel]

So... with Whismur/Nincada as a wild encounter in Hoenn, Nuzlockers playing on classic will have a possibility if having a natural 1 weakness wonder guard mon

[full bison]

Skitty is on that same route, too

[alpine rune]

Ive been thinking, this is just a hypothetical scenario

Hoenn is all about weather, and I remember about a glitch called Acid Rain

And I thought

Hey, acid rain sounded like an actual weather but for poison types

So i thought

What if every type has their own version of terrain/weather condition?

Rn we have terrains for
-Psychic
-Grass
-Fairy
-Electric
and weathers for
-Water
-Fire
-Rock
-Ice

Acid rain could be poison type weather condition

the effect would be deal 1/16 damage to non poison types but heals poison type for 1/16

[trail hull]

But acid rain bug works with all weather

And they all do the same damage

[alpine rune]

No no, just a thought experiment

if its an actual weather and doesnt mess with the game code/castform

Or make castform to be a poison type

or not

smh why no sandstorm castform

Making a steel terrain could actually be broken too

30% special damage resistance

[trail hull]

While not for pif this could be great

[quaint matrix]

I do think every type should be able to have their own weathers and terrains yeah

It'd be fun for Steel to have a terrain that doesn't do anything for their defenses but just makes their offense much more tuff

Or Fairies getting a terrain that sacrifices their immunity to Dragons (and give them extra weaknesses) but now they hit more types super effectively idk I'm spitballing

[prime dust]

that'd be a thing for a different fan game or for gamefreak to never rectify

[quaint matrix]

Rectify?

Yeah I'm not asking for like fanmade terrains or weathers or anything I just thought it'd be a neat idea to expand these mechanics to all types

[hexed agate]

Steel has the ability to remove terrain in Steel Roller

[quaint matrix]

I'm assuming that's a Gen 9 thing

[hexed agate]

8 I think

Yeah, gen 8

[weak trellis]

I know Masters has a zone mechanic for... 15 of the 18 types (electric, grass, and psychic still use their terrains)

but they don't have any inherent extra effects beyond powering up a type

[rancid nymph]

Fairy types already have a terrain

[quaint matrix]

I might've forgor

Lol

[rancid nymph]

Don’t forget that Shadow type has a weather

[full bison]

Pretty sure that's the whole central premise to the fan region that Lockistin was brainstorming a few years ago

I definitely remember him making a theoretical weather for Electric that could make all Electric moves 100 percent accurate

Imagine the Zap Cannon BS

[prime dust]

...

that's just rain

[clear lichen]

Rain only does that for Thunder (and Hurricane but that isn't an Electric move)

Wait mb

Also works on the Legendary Genie signature moves

(Sandsear, Bleakwind and Wildbolt Storm, the last of the 3 being Electric)

For some reason, doesn't work on Springtide Storm

Also technically it doesn't make them 100% accurate

It makes them incapable of missing

So it'd hit through evasion boosts

(Good riddance, evasion boosting is a dogshit mechanic)

[full bison]

Pretty sure we would see a lot more Zap Cannon usage if Rain made all Electric moves bypass accuracy

And quite frankly that should never happen

No Guard Dynamic Punch is already super annoying, now imagine that but instead of confusion it's paralysis

Watching through Lockistin's "weather for every type" video again and I'm just realizing how much RNG stuff he crammed in there

The Ghost weather has an upgraded version that makes everything that isn't Ghost, Dark, or Normal just passively have a chance at flinching every turn.

I would get so tilted so fast

Ghosts absolutely don't need to be broken further

[weak trellis]

reminds me of some of the RPG maker fangames that use custom terrains as an excuse to give the enemies TCG video game levels of advantages

[clear lichen]

That's what happens if you want to make a difficult fangame/romhack

[quaint matrix]

Everyone's hating this suggestion but Steel should absolutely resist Ghost again

[clear lichen]

You either have your opponents having auto terrain/weather or a metric shitton of legendaries

[quaint matrix]

Having that type be only resisted by Dark (nowadays a shabby defensive type now that Fairy exists) is just such a baffling decision

[clear lichen]

Because the AI is simply nowhere near the level of a human

[quaint matrix]

We're past the point of Aegislash's supposed insanity anyway now with Gholdengo existing might as well just let that one rip a little

[clear lichen]

Would this make Gholdengo better for having 1 less weakness or worse for making Focus Blast more mandatory

Actually who does this even matter for?

Corv, Iron Treads, Iron Crown, Scizor and Skarm feel like the most important

Most of them now resist both STABs, and Iron Crown has pretty high special bulk iirc

Iron Treads is the only one weak to Focus Blast out of these, and it outspeeds and threatens Earthquake

Corviknight can't really capitalise though

Scizor and Treads threaten Knock Off and EQ, respectively

Iron Crown ig also struggles to break through but can setup with Calm Mind and shut down Recover with Psychic Noise

And at least Skarm can lay hazards

[weak trellis]

yea you either have to elevate the AI to the player's level artificially or drag the player down to the AI's level by blocking things like EVs and items and even then the player will always outcompete a comparable AI at the same level

pokemon and difficulty, sounds good on paper, not so much in execution for me

[clear lichen]

Simply put, with how Pokemon currently is, the only form of difficulty is surprise factor

Unless you have 2 omniboosted Giratina on top of a team of 6 with much more punishing battle mechanics

You know exactly who I'm talking about

[full bison]

Volo was piss easy for me

Just a rehash of Cynthia's team with weaker additions like Hisuian Arcanine with its glaring Water Weakness

And the Giratinas went down to like 3 attacks total

Lame fight for a lame character

[clear lichen]

I struggled with the fight because every fucking time he swaps in a new Pokemon he gets a free attack

And generally trainers send in Pokemon that are good against your own

Can you see how this is an issue?

I LOVE GETTING INSTANTLY HIT BY A STRONG STYLE CLOSE COMBAT WITH 0 OPPORTUNITY TO SWAP OUT

Eventually he stops having Pokemon that can effectively trade with you

But by then your team is probably pretty badly hurt

Unless you're overleveled, or using legendaries

And then you have 2 omniboosted Giratina to deal with so I hope you brought a bulky Fairy type

Not to mention I wasn't fucking prepping for fighting 6 Pokemon followed by 2 Giratina

I went into this shit blind

And even now it's still a tough battle simply because of the nature of L:A battles

You are going to be losing Pokemon

It's just a matter of if your team composition matches up well enough into Volo's

And if it doesn't, prepare to struggle

Like this shit doesn't happen in the maingame

If your team is general bad against another trainer's, simply swap out whenever the MU is bad

But Volo absolutely LOVES to kill you before you can swap out

And it's not a matter of "Just bring a Pokemon his team can't hit for SE"

Because the only ones that exist

Are Gliscor and Landorus

The latter of which is only encounterable after Volo is beaten

This is like the only battle I can see anyone losing to outside of challenge runs

Apart from maybe BDSP Cynthia? But that suffers from the issue of not forcing you to trade on half of your KOs with 0 option to swap out

Now, if your Pokemon is fast enough/Volo's is slow enough, he won't instantly assassinate your ass

This is based on Speed difference

Where if the speed difference is high enough, you get 2 turns in a row

This happens even outside of swapping scenarios, too

So at the very least, you know when Volo is about to fucking kill you with 0 chance for retaliation by looking at the turn counter

[prime dust]

we interupt this nonsense for something completely different

[clear lichen]

And if you plan out the entire battle, you can order your team in a way so that he quickly stops having SE answers for the Pokemon that is currently out

[prime dust]

https://tenor.com/view/tess-spheal-gif-22641311

[clear lichen]

Speen

[clear lichen]

However, this is a far higher requirement than anything else in Pokemon

If your team is well structured for general use, you simply walk into a battle and react to what happens, unless you're playing a challenge run

You cannot do this for Volo unless you're overleveled, have a good matchup or simply get lucky and crit his ass down or something

Oh, and Giratina's a fucking piece of shit

I FUCKING LOVE EVASION BULLSHIT WOOOOOOO

That definitely has lost me at least 1 attempt at Giratina

Because my luck is ass

So as soon as Giratina is obscured

I am never landing a hit until obscuration goes away

And if it starts spamming Shadow Force to keep it always up?

Well, I lose

But that's more of a "Legenddragon800 luck issue"

Which is probably why I fucking hate evasion, you know for a fact that as soon as someone uses a singular evasion boosting move on me I am never landing a hit until I lose the match

And if I just use like Shadow Punch or Aerial Ace, then I was losing either ways

Because those moves are garbage

Anyways uhh

That's the end of this rant about why I am thankful for L:A having 0 PVP and why Evasion is a bullshit mechanic

[clear lichen]

Oh, also, Legend Plate Arceus

[hexed agate]

What Pokémon are you finding in the hidden grotto?

[grave jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/sniffing-grotle-pokemon-truffle-pig-gif-13030823

[outer matrix]

Wingull and phanphy

[grave jolt]

Cardboard Tyrantrum

[outer matrix]

(Idk why my phone thinks wingull means singular)

[velvet root]

Would be cool if Hidden Power could open hidden grottos but no hidden bases

[clear lichen]

Nidoran Male, Nidoran Female, Granbull, Watchog, Manectric, Pachirisu, Zebstrika, Venonat, Lombre, Bibarel, Liepard, Minccino, Foongus, Dunsparce, Woobat, Nosepass, Zangoose, Seviper, Cubchoo, Muk, Garbodor, Bouffalant, Spheal, Drifloon, Tangela, Skorupi, Kingler, Dragonite, Corsola, Chatot, Pelipper, Amoonguss, Mienfoo, Golduck, Gligar, Absol, Vulpix, Bronzor, Swablu, Clefairy, Ditto, Sneasel, Metang, Pinsir, Heracross, Combee, Leavanny, Poliwhirl, Hariyama, Medicham, Bagon, Butterfree, Beedrill, Murkrow, Breloom, Marill, Herdier, Glameow, Stunky, Eevee, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon or Glaceon

(Yes I searched this up)

[outer matrix]

Wait so gen 5 hidden grottos in hoenn...?

[clear lichen]

Hidden Grottos are B2W2 only according to Bulbapedia

(To be honest I barely even remember them apart from the tutorial there)

I like how varied the pool of Pokemon is tbh

You encounter Corsola and Dragonite in the same Hidden Grotto

[outer matrix]

For hoenn, I mean PIF Hoenn

[clear lichen]

Yeah in PIF Hoenn I have no clue

Would be a nice way to sneak in otherwise unobtainable Pokemon though

[grave jolt]

It'll be 57 Whismer

https://tenor.com/view/whismur-jigglypuff-pokemon-singing-playful-gif-7400281

[outer matrix]

I think grottos would be a great replacement to the secret forests found in regular PIF for PIF hoenn

As I guess the encounters would be different, unless I'm wrong about how grotto spawns work

[grave jolt]

Grotto's are special spawn locations

[outer matrix]

Huh

[velvet root]

What would be gen 5+ mons that fit Grottos?

[grave jolt]

holy levels batman

[outer matrix]

50s

[grave jolt]

Gonna be honest, not played B2W2 in several years

[velvet root]

Bunnelby, Skiddo, Pancham, Phantump, Pumpkaboo and Espurr feel hidden grotto like for the gen 6 mons

[grave jolt]

They can also spawn items

[velvet root]

Yungoose, Cutiefly, Rockruff, Stufful, Fomantis and Komala for gen 7 mons

[grave jolt]

I'd add Pikipek and Morelull to that list too

[velvet root]

I see that

[outer matrix]

Probably not a good pick but uh maybe skiddo as well?

[velvet root]

Look my gen 6 picks

[grave jolt]

Skiddo would be neat

[outer matrix]

Oh

Didn't notice it at first

[clear lichen]

Ig the ones that already are in Grottos

[grave jolt]

Floette, Spritzee, and Dedenne for my gen 6 additions to the list

[clear lichen]

In particular, iirc Minccino is the tutorial Grotto mon

So I think it's mandatory

Well, if it was in IF

Which I don't think it is?

[velvet root]

I see Dedenne
Floette is more for a flowerfield imo same for Spritzee

[outer matrix]

Petilil in grottos as well?

[clear lichen]

Simply add it in a later update and then put it in a hidden grotto

Other Hidden Grotto Pokemon from Gen 5 include Zebstrika, Watchog, Liepard, the Foongus line, Woobat, Cubchoo, Garbodor, Bouffalant, Mienfoo, Leavanny and Herdier

[velvet root]

Just cuz I care

[clear lichen]

How many out of these are in IF?

[outer matrix]

Only garbodor-line

[clear lichen]

Damn

[grave jolt]

Garbodor

oop

[clear lichen]

12 Pokemon lines and only 1 is in the game

Unfortunate

[grave jolt]

I could see Garbodor being the tutorial pokemon for IF2 hidden grotto's.

Stick the tutorial in a city, and have the environment of the grotto be a trash dump.

[clear lichen]

Was there a Hidden Grotto announcement I missed or something

Anyways I think Hidden Grottos should stick to not needing anything to unlock

[outer matrix]

There's just pory mentioning grottos

[grave jolt]

But if I had to choose, Hidden Grotto's can be added in a later update once we have better pokemon.

[outer matrix]

⬆️

[clear lichen]

And if you were to need to unlock it, Hidden Power would fit better than Secret Power, no?

[grave jolt]

You'll have to trade in a missing no from Johto /j

[velvet root]

Well Secret power opens hidden areas in games

[clear lichen]

I know but still

You asked between 2 things, only one of which it has functionality for, and one of which doesn't even need to be revealed

I simply think that if something should reveal a hidden grotto it'd be Hidden Power

Considering how Secret Power only creates Secret bases

[velvet root]

The question came from Secret bases being kinda useless for a basically pure offline game

Except you can somehow let them spawn in other worlds so they get benefits

[clear lichen]

Fair, but once again, Hidden Grottos never needed to be revealed, and I think making it so that they would would be a net negative for the game

[velvet root]

Yes but it feels like a nice unlockable
Like the eggs or hidden routes in base PIF

[clear lichen]

I dont think it needs to be something you unlock

Since it's already something you have to search for

[velvet root]

Fair Ig

[clear lichen]

Fun fact: Audino is the only Pokemon that learns Secret Power by level up

[velvet root]

Well

[clear lichen]

However, like with Hidden Power, Rest, Sleep Talk, Facade, Return, Frustration and Toxic (as well as some others I may be missing), a vast majority of Pokemon can learn it via TM

[velvet root]

https://tenor.com/view/unown-pokemon-unown-unown-x-x-pokemon-dance-gif-7030192262836788433

He kinda does and doesnt learn it

[clear lichen]

Unown does not get Secret Power

It gets Hidden Power

[velvet root]

True

Man I always mix those 2 up

[clear lichen]

But it does lack the ability to learn it via TM, iirc

[velvet root]

Then forget it

[clear lichen]

Not that it matters

Considering HP is Unown's only move

It learns Psychic in the anime apparently

[velvet root]

Should be a legendary move reminder move for it

[clear lichen]

Gonna hit them with the Psychic+HP Ground combo to do a grand total of jack shit

[weak trellis]

them 48/72(for gens 2/3)/48/72/48/48 stats

[fathom ridge]

Would unown do something in LC?

[full bison]

Not with Abra around

[chrome heron]

I think it'd be better to do secret bases and maybe add more functionality to them in future patches.

[craggy nexus]

@spice sage hey got the results of the grunt redesing contest ready for votes im sending it to you on a dm

[hexed agate]

Feel free to send them my way

[craggy nexus]

done

[junior tiger]

Weather moved also fall under this category

[clear lichen]

They're nowhere near as widespread as the listed moves

At least, iirc

That said, they are fucking ridiculously widespread

Why the FUCK

Can a Pokemon regarded as one that replaces the fucking SUN

Learn RAIN DANCE

And why does a quad weak to Fire Pokemon learn Sunny Day

My bad, it isn't 1 quad weak to Fire Pokemon that learns Sunny Day

It's multiple

Scizor, Wormadam, Forretress, the Leavanny line, the Parasect line and the Alolan Sandslash line

Volcarona isn't the only Fire type to get Rain Dance either, Alolan Marowak, Blaze Paldea Tauros, Oricorio, Volcanion, Moltres, the Houndoom line, Entei, Ho-Oh, the Camerupt line, Heatmor, Reshiram, the Delphox line, the Talonflame line and the Pyroar line all learn Rain Dance too

I suppose the forms are mostly excusable

Though Sand Cloak Wormadam is still weak to Fire...

And Volcanion is too for uhh

Obvious reasons

But everything else is ridiculous

Camerupt is about as ridiculous as Volcarona, albeit for a different reason

While Volcarona literally acted as the sun during some sort of volcanic winter

Camerupt is just quad weak to Water

[potent tinsel]

hey is pif hoenn another game? is it already playable? cause im pretty sure i havent seen a volcarona on my current playthrough

[summer apex]

another game, not already playable, volcarona is available in PIF

[potent tinsel]

ok thanks maybe i just havent seen one.

[junior tiger]

That's not nearly as bad as every single Pokémon that takes damage from Sandstorm and Hail learning them.
And the absolute worst is Pokémon with Dry Skin learning Sunny Day. They take damage every turn from the Sun AND take double damage from Fire attacks (regardless of typing, which can be much worse ||like Parasect||)

[clear lichen]

Not entirely wrong

There's like barely any quad weak to Fire Pokemon that tank a Fire move anyways

Like

Ferrothorn

Ferrothorn

And Ferrothorn

Same with Camerupt and Rain Dance

Bro was getting OHKOd anyways

That said, weakening its own Fire moves is uhh

[junior tiger]

Kartana can take physical Fire hits fairly well, but not in Sun

[clear lichen]

Fucking stupid as shit

[clear lichen]

I mean, not really?

Same physical defence as Ferrothorn but a lot less HP

[junior tiger]

And I'm sure Genesect can take at least one hit

[clear lichen]

I guess weaker hits like Fire Punch, maybe

[clear lichen]

Certainly not

[junior tiger]

That's 75 base power, which is basically the median damage for a move, so yes

[clear lichen]

Every physical Fire type isn't using Fire Punch though

They're all gonna use Flare Blitz

And Fire Punch is generally considered weak

It's as good as Electric's 3rd best widespread Physical STAB

Which says a lot about how dogshit it is

[junior tiger]

Sacred Fire? Raging Fury? Those are also alternatives to Flare Blitz?
But also, I strongly discourage assuming the highest power moves.

[clear lichen]

Most Pokemon don't get Sacred Fire or Raging Fury

And both also far outdamage Fire Punch

[junior tiger]

A median or average damage move is certainly a better reference for "general" information

[clear lichen]

I guess if you're playing a playthrough then maybe Fire Punch would be a good example to take from if you don't want to deal with Recoil

But in a Competitive mindset, yeah no

[junior tiger]

"All going to use" would mean none would use Raging Fury or Sacred Fire. Which was my point

[clear lichen]

Nobody is ever using Fire Punch unless their situation is THAT dire

[clear lichen]

Also tbf most Pokemon with these moves use Flare Blitz anyways

Main exception I can think of is Ho-Oh

[junior tiger]

Infernape? Why would it want recoil?

[clear lichen]

... Wait, Ho-Oh doesn't get Flare Blitz?

[clear lichen]

It's so frail that it doesn't matter much anyways

Better than making yourself fodder for any Fire resist like Raging Fury would

Or doing jack shit for damage like with Fire Punch

[junior tiger]

A late game cleanup with Infernape wouldn't need to worry about that and could be much more useful not killing itself with recoil though

[clear lichen]

Late Game Infernape is Special, based on what sets I'm seeing on Showdown

So it uses Fire Blast instead

It does have equal SpA to Attack, after all

Probably has something to do with NU as a whole though

Look at VR, I see Basculegion high up, so it may for Grass Knot to hit Basculegion hard

Avalugg is also shockingly good here

And it has enough bulk to just tank a +2 CC/Flare Blitz

Both of which lead to Body Press being able to KO

Avalugg might be cooking ngl

Well, it will be fully cooked once it gets hit by even a +0 Fire Blast

But yeah, simply put

The difference between 75 and 120 is fucking ridiculous

And 75 itself is nowadays quite a low number

If Fire Punch was good Fire STAB, why would Electric be considered to be a bottom 3 physical type?

I forgot about Psychic mb

Bottom 4

[trail hull]

In 4 month we might get the first demo

[wise bear]

Was wondering if pif hoenn would share some of the sprites

[trail hull]

It will share all

[wise bear]

Nice so it will most likely end up having way more Pokemon then pif

[trail hull]

You don’t understand

Both will share every mon tho some might not be catchable in the wild

[prime dust]

the way it is looking is that the only way to get the mons in PIF is via randomizer, and the same will be true of anything that isn't gen 3 dex in PIF Hoenn

at minimum anyway

[full bison]

I do hope Frog posts a Regional Dex for Hoenn at some point. Would be nice to know for sure what will and won't be readily available in-game

[prime dust]

that will likely be a later down the road thing

[sterile spoke]

Yeah, I don't think even he knows for sure yet. 😅

[hexed agate]

I heard Rayquaza is one of the starters

[sterile spoke]

We can but dream. 😂

I'll be taking Blaziken every time, though. 😛

[viscid wren]

Heres to hoping the regis are gonna be readily accessible

[prime dust]

nah, keep em locked behind their jank puzzles

[sterile spoke]

You must learn Braille. 🙂

[outer matrix]

And bring in wailmer for one of them

[viscid wren]

Idc if its complicated, im just hoping its something doable pre league

[full bison]

Imagine the puzzle is changed into needing specific fusions, meaning you can't just use past knowledge on how the Mainline games did things

[outer matrix]

Needing to bring in a metang/camerupt for registeel

[viscid wren]

Needing to bring a metang and a camerupt and fuse them in front of the entrance

[outer matrix]

while also needing to read braille as to what spot to fuse them at

[viscid wren]

But the braille is backwards

[outer matrix]

And is long to read

[viscid wren]

And is dialog from an npc across the map, not even at the cave itself

[deft obsidian]

No way, you have to beat op Steven team and grind for metang

[dark saddle]

I want a mist route just like my favorite zone from gen 4

[viscid wren]

You WANT fog!?

[dark saddle]

It needs to be filled with pokemon that have no run moves and spam double team

[viscid wren]

You are a monster

Brilliant, it should require every hm to traverse

[dark saddle]

All you repels should be stolen from you before entering this zone

and then you get block from moving back

[viscid wren]

Defog will not be accesible and weather abilitys wont work

[dark saddle]

running shoes and bicycle are disabled

[viscid wren]

Add the mud from gen 4

[dark saddle]

Its manditory that you pass this area

Its a dark cave

[viscid wren]

No flash

[dark saddle]

No fly

No teleport or rope

[viscid wren]

Its 17 floors

With 50ish trainers, fainting sends you back to the route start

[dark saddle]

50ish unavoidable trainer, and 25 ish suprise trainer

And ice, ledge and strength puzzles

[viscid wren]

This is the first route of the game

[weak trellis]

encounter rate is maxed out so literally every input gets a wild battle

[viscid wren]

To exit, you must reach the wnd and then go back to the start

[weak trellis]

there's also ledges where hopping over even one forces you to start the whole thing over

also access to the pause menu is disabled while you're in the route

[hasty ridge]

I look forward for Chingling to be added. love that lil bean

[weak trellis]

spriters so far have been doing nice work with chingling and chimecho

[hasty ridge]

Oooo. I definitely look forward to seeing chingling and Bronzong fusions

If that's an inevitable fusion

[hasty ridge]

Is there a channel to look at future sprites?

[trail hull]

#sprite-gallery

[viscid wren]

I though chingling was gen 4

[gusty spindle]

Sprite gal yep

[trail hull]

It is but it’s a prevo of a gen 3 mon

So it got added as well

[viscid wren]

Bronzong is 4

[gusty spindle]

Chingling is here because Chimecho's a generation 3 mon and its a a baby of it.

It's to prevent the numbers from disjointing from their lines like what happened with Pokémon like Luxray, Bidoof or Flygon

[hasty ridge]

I only ask as there's gens 5 and 6 already in the game if I remember correctly

[trail hull]

Up to gen 7 max

[gusty spindle]

There's some generation 5 and 6 mons yes, not all.

IF goes up to generation 7.

[hasty ridge]

Not touching 8 or 9 at all?

[trail hull]

No

[gusty spindle]

Nope.

[trail hull]

It’s complicated to add them

[viscid wren]

Dont get me wrong, id love bronzing to be added but no guarentee there

[gusty spindle]

It's technically very very hard

To actually do that

[trail hull]

It’s possible but frog said himself that it’s off the table for now

[gusty spindle]

^^

[viscid wren]

If we were to ever get gen 8 and 9 Id love to see scovillan but mostly I dont think theres much that would add any unique designs in those gens

[hasty ridge]

So basically a no for now then?

[trail hull]

Yes

[viscid wren]

Im so excited for the rematch and trade features tho

Its a paradise for me

[trail hull]

We have 255 Pokémon from gen 4-7 not yet added

[hasty ridge]

Would be fascinating to see gimmighoul fusions as mimics... Maybe with Dusknoir?

I'm definitely quite a novice in sprite work, (would probably be a first attempt in a looooong time) but count me interesting in wanting to at least try (could be the ADHD talking 😅)

[viscid wren]

I feel that

[weak trellis]

I know NtM did a gholdengo once so I can see a gimmighoul

(registeel/sudowoodo in that case)

[hasty ridge]

Question now is what do I try to fuse 🤔 so many good mons

[viscid wren]

You should totally fuse luxray/chesnaught

[weak trellis]

first fully evolved mon I fired up in a rando uuuh

[tacit saddle]

start SIMPLE.

[weak trellis]

...ok you can maybe do better than smushing to grass types together lol

[tacit saddle]

choose a simple body pokemon and a head pokemon with uncomplicated features

do that for your first 3 so you can apply

[weak trellis]

oh right for new mons uuuh

[tacit saddle]

amaura, pumpkaboo, dratini arent bad body mons to start with

these were mine

[weak trellis]

I was actually gonna suggest venipede as a body too now that you mention it

snorunt is also a fun little one to work with

[viscid wren]

Ditto

Dont be me, dont try to start with garchomp

Especially since I used mega body

[hasty ridge]

I wanted to try to make a Mon based on this MTG card and was trying to figure out the best mons for it

But pumpkaboo may be a good start 😅

[viscid wren]

Imma try pink oricorio/feebas

[junior tiger]

Trevenant/Breloom

[hasty ridge]

ooo okay, my thought process was Mismagius or braxien or ... I am forgetting the final evolution Delphox!!

also a good idea to look at what's available as fusion material

[junior tiger]

So I chose those because it's humanoid with hands and legs and a toadstool head, which is Breloom minus the tail, and it has wood and leaf details and a LOT of dark colors, so Phantump isn't quite right but Trevenant is for the head. That's my logic.

[hasty ridge]

I appreciate the thought process and suggestion. in the MTG channels i'm in I use Icy Thallid as my username

[junior tiger]

I've never played MTG sorry, I just enjoy theorycrafting fusions to make them work

[hasty ridge]

Honestly you really helped me out with what I was struggling with actually with finding the other half

yooooooo belchoke is I think what I am looking for that already exists 👀

[lament peak]

Probably something humanoid with parasect

[hasty ridge]

Probably the other option 🤔

[weak trellis]

breloom might also work well yea

[hasty ridge]

i'm definitely curious to see future Foogus and Amoongus fusions

I am definitely hoping for for a triple fusion of 3 fungus Mons... Breloom, Amoongus and Shiinotic or Parasect?

[viscid fossil]

amoongus got a past paradox, not future.

[hasty ridge]

omg 🤣

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/johny-gif-27696534

[prime dust]

nothing from gen 8 or higher will be in

ever

[brittle crow]

ominous...

[rancid nymph]

Foongus and Amoongus are Gen 5

[viscid wren]

Those are gen 5 pokemon?

Where are you getting 8?

[prime dust]

i saw future mentioned so my brain defaulted to paradox stuff

[viscid wren]

Erm actually paradox are gen 9

Ignore the reply my phone is being dumb

[prime dust]

note the "or higher" bit of my statement

that would include gen 9

[viscid wren]

How did I miss that

Damn, I guess I need sleep

[brittle crow]

amoongus in the future

[prime dust]

https://tenor.com/view/future-squidward-spongebob-gif-4767609

[brittle crow]

means he is coming soomish

[viscid wren]

More like shroomish

insert shroomidh meme here

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/shroomish-gif-20863222

[viscid wren]

Thank you

[hasty ridge]

So with 8 and up being out of the question, Fungi pokemon being in every odd generation. So a fusion of 3 fungi we'll have 4 possibilities. Parasect, Breloom, Amoongus and shiinotic actually 🤔

[outer matrix]

Shiinotic would be cool

Considering how it's alien-like

[hasty ridge]

So... A triple fusion of the middle 3 mushies

[prime dust]

no guarantees it makes it past the sprite stage

we already have a decent backlog of triples that exist only in sprite form

[hasty ridge]

Ahhh just a thought is all

Oooo 👀

[full bison]

Man, it's such a waste of potential that Frog has so far confined Triple Fusions to the Starter and legend trios

[hasty ridge]

Not sure how it would be to program 🤔

[thin pawn]

What other pokemon would you like to see get triple fusions?

[full bison]

The Hitmons, Muk/Weezing/Garbodor, maybe Zebstrika and Mudsdale with Rapidash whenever they're added, etc

Some want triple fusions of the Eeveelutions too, but there's 8, so it wouldn't be divvied up fairly

[hasty ridge]

It would be fascinating to see a family of 3 pokemon fused together, or like the 3 adult Hitmons fused together

Oh! Ursaring, Beartic and Pangoro would be neat as well

[full bison]

The Pseudos are also decently popular candidates for triple fusions, but again there's 8 of those we have access to

[hasty ridge]

Could pick and choose?

[hasty ridge]

Well for the gen 1 set and perhaps gen 2 with Sypheon (?)

[full bison]

An amusing triple fusion I could totally see Frog signing off on is the three Troll Fish Stunfisk, Bruxish, and Luvdisc

[outer matrix]

3 beautiful* Pokémon fused into one

*|| or are they?||

[hasty ridge]

Djinn trio if they don't already have one?

[outer matrix]

The weather genies aren't in PIF yet

[full bison]

They aren't in yet, but they would absolutely have one, if not two

[hasty ridge]

So if they exist lol

[full bison]

Trying to think of more trios that aren't legendary Pokemon, but most Pokemon with close relations like that tend to be pairs, a la Zangoose and Seviper

Only other non-legendary non-starter trio I can think of is the non-applicable Applin evos

[sacred grail]

i hope charcadet will be in pif hoenn

[full bison]

Gen 8+ is off the table

[sacred grail]

man

[full bison]

They're incompatible with the version of Poke Essentials the games use

[sacred grail]

hopefully they will soon

[full bison]

I personally think it will eventually happen, but due to the fact that there's still 255 Pokemon from Gens 4-7 waiting to be added and all the complications that updating the games to be compatible with Gens 8+ would bring, I wouldn't hold my breath

[sacred grail]

charcadet would make some cool fusions

since it has 2 evos

[full bison]

There's definitely a fair amount of Gen 8+ Pokemon I'd like to see fusions of myself, such as Glimmora, Polteageist, Revavroom, Toxitricity, and Annihilape, but I'm gonna try to be realistic for now.

[sacred grail]

but im excited for more fusions in pif hoenn

especially the legendarys

[hasty ridge]

When compatible, I'd love to combine the convergent pokemon with their counterparts. Same for regional variants... Oh! The two persians and Purrserker could be another triple fusion

How many crablike pokemon are there?

[craggy nexus]

How bout the bugs they're not a trio but have a weird relation were pinsir and scyther were counter parts in gen 1 but then scyther got evolve and heracross became pinsir new counter part

[hasty ridge]

Oh! The 3 wormadams

[mossy light]

Are we eventually getting the hoenn gyms as an update?

Or will it be a new game ?

[hushed axle]

The Hoenn region (PIF: Hoenn) will be a new game

[mossy light]

Oooo

That's exciting

[full bison]

x8 Fire weakness, let's gooo

[mossy light]

Turns out it unlocks a secret burned version of wormdam cubed

[full bison]

I just looked up Wormadam for more info on it and apparently it gets Quiver Dance for some reason?

It's immobile, how's it dancing

[quaint matrix]

Certified Shell Smash moment

Move can't be broken if it's mostly exclusive to dumpster fire mons

[full bison]

At least Quiver Dance has Volc Around to break it

[quaint matrix]

I'm pretty sure Shell Smash is broken with Cloyster too right

Or at least workable in comparison to most other mons using it

[full bison]

It was OU in Gen 5 IIRC

Cause Skill Link went crazy too

Lowkey one of my favorite abilities

[quaint matrix]

Same reason why Cinccinno is RU too even though Cinccinno's stats is hot garbo

[full bison]

Cinccino is a few stat buffs away from being a really powerful Mon, especially now that Loaded Dice and Tidy Up exist

[clear lichen]

Fun fact: Cinccino's lowest placement is PU in Gen 8

It got quite the buff in Gen 9, allowing it to rise to NU

Despite the heavy powercreep

[full bison]

Tidy Up in conjunction with basically being able to use it's two best abilities with Loaded Dice was certainly a nice feather in its boa

[quaint matrix]

Damn my nickname's coming in full force again and now I need Cinccino and Furfrou to be in the game

[full bison]

I'm down for more Skill Link mons. Again, super fun ability

[quaint matrix]

Sucks that it's only on Cloyster rn too lmao

But also I want Fur Coat in-game to make some absurdly broken Ghost/Normal defensive mons

Furfrou/Dusclops with Eviolite would go so tuff

Or Furfrou/Dusknoir but only because I love Dusknoir way more

[full bison]

Eviolite Chansey/Furfrou sounds like it would be pretty crazy

Then again Chansey and Blissey make almost everything into juggernauts when used as heads

[quaint matrix]

Blissey so cracked she makes even Normal/Steel work

[junior tiger]

Normal/Ghost Chansey fusion with Eviolite

[quaint matrix]

Well we already have them though

It's called Chansey/Dusknoir

Or Blissey/Dusclops idk

[rain locust]

blissey dusclops is good

[junior tiger]

"Though"?

[quaint matrix]

We already have Normal/Ghost Chansey and Blissey stuff

My thing was like

Furfrou would go so hard as a Normal/Ghost combo

[junior tiger]

So why not Furfrou Chansey with Eviolite? It is just Normal but Fur Coat makes that Defende stat so much higher than just Eviolite

[weak trellis]

cinccino is basically a better maushold that lacks a Broken Gen 7-9 Signature Move

[hollow plume]

Can anyone guess what I'm most excited for?

[prime dust]

taco tuesday?

[hollow plume]

Noooot quite

[prime dust]

but we already have doge

and if you mean contests that poses an issue

because after Gen 4 they just didn't exist, so any more from Gen 5 upward has no contest data

and by that I mean moves that existed from gen 5 upward, obviously moves that existed in Gen 3 and 4 have contest data

[viscid wren]

I do hope we get contests, I loved the contests

[prime dust]

it might not be doable

because frog would need to determine what kind of "style" each move not featured in gens 3 or 4 would be

not sure if thay requires extra code or what

[viscid wren]

It would take extra work yes

[hollow plume]

Mightyena is hyena, not doge, and rock ruff line is kinda generic

[viscid fossil]

Still pettable

[viscid wren]

Fun fact, hyenas are more closely related to cats than dogs

[trail hull]

Maybe Pokémon essentials already covered it

[viscid wren]

Also, contests returned in gen 6 and 8
(ORAS and BDSP)

Though, I havent played bdsp so

[full bison]

BDSP, in the name of being a "FaItHfUl rEmAkE," didn't include a single move added after Gen 4 aside from Fairy moves. Therefore, Gen 7 moves have not been able to be used in a game with contests.

Gotta love BDSP: Faithful in all the ways nobody wanted, never in the ways people hoped for

[viscid fossil]

So faithful they literally kept a bug platinum fixed

[wheat arch]

is there gonna be like team aqua

[weak trellis]

BDSP is basically a console port with some half-baked features tacked on lol

"bdsp bad, upvotes at the bottom"

[rancid nymph]

So like Raikou, Entei and Suicune

[viscid fossil]

But it Might be a hyena.

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/danganronpa-no-thats-wrong-makoto-naegi-gif-26672582

As you can see, Chimchar learns Power-Up Punch in BDSP, a post Gen 4 move that is not fairy type

[viscid fossil]

Unsure if you're joking

[rancid nymph]

I’m not, there are post Gen 4 moves in BDSP that are not fairy type

[viscid fossil]

Oh wait
Flame wheel was highlighted so I focused on that

[rancid nymph]

Yeah, that’s on me

[rain locust]

looks like a dog to me

[fallen loom]

Eww, so no Gen 5-8 moves?

I find that Gen 5 and 6 added a lot

Gen 8 finally added a good physical Ice move

[rain locust]

icespinnercels be seething over iciclecrashchads

[hushed axle]

That’s the opposite of what weavile said

[weak trellis]

icicle crash and ice punch?

(well the latter is more for coverage but still)

[clear lichen]

Those were added in previous gens

And also, Icicle Crash is literally worse than Play Rough, and Ice Punch is even worse than that

Grip's talking about Triple Axel I reckon

[rain locust]

nuh uh crash got a tasty 30% flinch

[clear lichen]

Gambler mindset

Tbf so is Taxel to an extent

Simply land all 3 hits and win

[sleek nest]

nah, it's technically there, granted only for the remakes, like omega ruby & alpha sapphire, and also brilliant diamond & shining pearl, which are after gen 5

i don't understand why they removed especially considering KALOS IS LITERALLY A COUNTRY ABOUT BEAUTY, WHY NO POKEMON CONTESTS.

[rain locust]

typical game based in france

[sleek nest]

also where is the equivalent of "cool dino" in hoenn

[rain locust]

tyranitar

[rancid nymph]

TBF, they definitely did not fully realize their vision for X and Y. Which is partially why it’s such a shame we never got Pokémon Z

[inland jewel]

Since Hoenn is all about water, how about Cool Leviathan

its a giant floaty in Pacifilog

[full bison]

Perhaps that's why the Legends games skipped Unova and went straight to ZA

Still want to see the past of Unova play out though. Tons of fun stuff you can do with it

[sleek nest]

...does that mean kyogre in a cut-out?
because a leviathan is a sea serpent, soooooooo...

[sleek nest]

"Hey Lois, remember the time I was in the Unovan Civil War? nyehehehehehehehe"

[weak trellis]

King Kyogre-out

the kyogre sequel to mimikyu/krookodile

[muted crest]

Will PIF Hoenn have its own launcher or will it be added to the current one?

[hushed axle]

There will likely be no launcher for Hoenn as the creator of the original launcher is no longer active in the server.

[muted crest]

Ah

[hushed axle]

-# unless I decide to try and update it but that’s a whole ass maybe

[prime dust]

https://tenor.com/view/tv-family-guy-pepperidge-farm-remember-gif-7555951312549958006

[mossy light]

I wonder if we will see the battle frontier

[full bison]

Here's hoping

[mossy light]

Emerald has a special place in my heart due to the frontier. One of the best end games we have had to date. Add that with the wild variety found in pif? Seems incredible.

[full bison]

Never got to really enjoy it due to the game releasing before my age hit double digits and therefore didn't have that much deep knowledge on the game mechanics. Always wanted it to come back starting with ORAS due to becoming more savvy in that regard, but it just never happened

[velvet root]

I mean people cam wish for stuff fin the game

[west sonnet]

#game-suggestions

[inland jewel]

there was also the theory that Blueberry academy technically was Unova, so they skipped it since they "already" done it

[weak trellis]

knowing GF I could see them justifying it with that

[full bison]

Unova deserves better. And by that I mean I want it to get a good Legends game and to keep the remake team far away from it

[viscid wren]

I dont think well get a legends unova, I think they are making it clear they dont want us to know what the ultimate dragon looked like

I just filled out the form, heres hoping they like my ideas

I wish I had more ideas but with such little information on the direction of the game (and hoenn being one of the regions im not super familar with) I was drawing a lot of blanks

[full bison]

You can always rewrite it and send it again later

I mostly stuck to small stuff like wanting Chimecho to get Psychic Surge as a hidden ability

[viscid wren]

Im not so good with balancing and mechanics, im a story writer and character writer/designer

[full bison]

I'm not a game balancer either, I just want psychic surge to be available cause I think it would be fun

Game's already broken to hell with stuff like Pixilate Boomburst Sylvern anyway lol

[weak trellis]

yea all of the auto-terrainers are either tapus or gen 8 sadly

[full bison]

And I can't see the Tapus being available before postgame, therefore I feel like it would be more fun for teambuilding if there were Pokemon who got it given to them as hidden abilities

[weak trellis]

like delibird with snow warning (who is now postgame)

[muted crest]

Just to clarify. PIF Hoenn will be a separate installment format the current PIF game & not like a DLC update right?

[viscid wren]

Yes, seperate game

[muted crest]

Figured, thx

[lapis atlas]

yoo

guys

how do i get luffy sprite

[tacit saddle]

go to #fusions

[viscid wren]

Dang, I just got a really good addendum to the plot idea I already submitted

[full bison]

You can always add it into the google form. It can be resubmitted with addendums IIRC

[viscid wren]

You cant wdit the form you already submitted

And it wouldnt make sense if I tried to explain it in a mew form

[velvet root]

I mean we dont know the pattern for Legends games yet

• it would be weird since next remake should be Unova

[full bison]

I'm down for deep sixing the whole idea of future Pokemon remakes, honestly. BDSP were a tremendous disaster, a remake of HGSS would probably be another just okay Let's Go game, and there's not such a drastic change in graphics and quality between the 3DS Era and Switch Era that the idea of a Kalos or Alola remake holds any sway over me

Also Legends Arceus released around the same time as BDSP, so if anything the lack of ZA being released alongside a separate remake is more anomalous

[velvet root]

I remember remakes are often half the gen number
4 gave 2
3 gave 1 was a anomaly
6 gave 3
7 nothing
8 gave 4
9 nothing
10 will be 5

[velvet root]

I can see a legends game being all 2-3 years

[rancid nymph]

7 gave 1

Let’s Go

[velvet root]

Tbf lets go isnt really meant as a remake as is legends
Also its gen 1 dont we get every year gen 1 shit

[weak trellis]

for context on 3 giving 1: gen 3 had no backwards compatibility so there had to be some way to get the kanto mons in that gen (colosseum mostly handled johto and emerald picked up the rest

[rancid nymph]

Why doesn't it count as a remake? It's set in Kanto and follows the events of the Gen 1 games

[weak trellis]

which I don't think any other gen has outright lacked that since gen 2 had the time capsule, 4/5 have their transfers, 6/7 have bank, and 8/9 have home

also as for gen 1 it's because First Installment Wins in the public's eye

I'd bet that even pokemon that don't exist like missingno are still more well known by non-fans than a majority of the mons in gens 3-9, just because it was in pokemon red/blue in the time of pokemania

[prime dust]

Let's Go games are remakes, even if we already had Fire Red and Leaf Green

[velvet root]

Cuz I think Lets go is meant as a seperate thing
Not real remakes
Hard to explain

Also even if one sees lets go as remakes its gen 1, its the version with most versions of itself

[weak trellis]

meanwhile I just call them the start of gen 8 despite official calling them gen 7 lol

mostly since a majority of its biological skeleton is also present in sword/shield

[rancid nymph]

The beginning of a new generation requires there to be both a new region and new Pokémon. Let’s Go is about as far away from both of those as you can get

[full bison]

Meltan

No new region but it is the first mainline game you can use that

[rancid nymph]

Meltan was introduced in Pokémon Go

[weak trellis]

two things that GF introduced that makes classifying things irritating and inconsistent

either way, I see Lets GO, at the very least, as not gen 7 and melmetal as a normal strong pokemon and I will die on those hills no matter how much everyone else (including official sources) screams at me otherwise

I don't mind them as games but good lord did they start GF's "because we say so" era that's caused me to fall out with accepting anything definition/term related past S/M

[fast quiver]

i think a really cool concept would be to allow the player to run a gym in the post game

not really sure how u would do it tho

[prime dust]

i mean title defense did exist in ultra sun/ultra moon

but that was for champion status

really depends on what all is in the code for pokemon essentials v19

since we use us/um moveset data i assume that the code for defending your role a league champion exists

could maybe even have a pool of trainers to come fight you

[fast quiver]

that would be so nic

like every day you could get a new challenger

and a nice easter egg would be to have one of the game's protagonists between gen 1 and 7 to challenge you every like 10 matches or something

[full bison]

There is also already a fangame dedicated to leading and maintaining a gym, btw

Pokemon: This Gym Of Mine, I think it's called?

[hot flame]

Yes that's the one 😄

[full bison]

I largely remember it for having a totally-not-broken regional variant of Luxray with the ability to set Tailwind whenever it's switched in

[prime dust]

ok, and? just because another fan game does it doesn't mean we can't add it in here

[full bison]

I just meant that there was already something that can scratch that particular itch they had, not necessarily that it should or shouldn't be in this

[thin pawn]

I heard a theory that Legends Arceus was originally going to be the gen 4 remake but it ended up being something much bigger, so the pokemon company contracted ILCA to rush bdsp for them