📚lore-discussion

[vapid tundra]

looks like pain

[past glen]

OVERLOAD UNSTOP BARRIER SCREEB

gotta do it in order and its random

[gentle geyser]

Glorbo

[vapid tundra]

I for one agree with the Witness's ways. Perhaps I may join thou

[heady monolith]

i for one welcome our new screeb champion overlords

[vapid tundra]

I will become Disciple

[novel blade]

you wish

[vapid tundra]

lol

[heady monolith]

wish you say

[vapid tundra]

i'll be the only guy in the entire community with the title: "Disciple of the Witness"

Godslayer my ass

lmfao

im 1 of 1

[novel blade]

i think the witness is getting rid of you just for that

[vapid tundra]

lmfao

He did say he is need of a godkiller

so... i mean

maybe not

[novel blade]

thats why he got zavala

[vapid tundra]

Zavala sends us to be godkillers, what?

Like

they sit there doing god knows what

while we do their dirty work

smh

Coulda been me

shoulda

[novel blade]

maybe he was the disciple all along

ofc i jk

[vapid tundra]

maybe...

Zavala was the final shape all along

holy fuck

no way

"your pale heart holds the key"

no shot

it really be zavala lmfao

[novel blade]

i did love seeing astronaut zavala in the trailer

[past glen]

tfs trailer be like:

[novel blade]

pretty much

at least they didnt get paid out by GW

...

nobs

[past glen]

warhammer destiny crossover incoming

[novel blade]

imagine

hottest thing GW could have

[past glen]

ngl i'd buy those ornaments

[novel blade]

warlocks have psyker armor
titans have astartes
and hunters get assassins

[past glen]

what would be better on a hunter

eversor or vindicare

[novel blade]

vindicare imo

also easiest for bungo to do

give ornamens for the cabal weapons we have too

[past glen]

unshadeable mask

[novel blade]

probably

[frozen pawn]

I wonder if Zavala can raise Riven's kid and wish for his family back instead of joining the dark side O_O

[novel blade]

i mean..if he could he would just go trhough more torture

unless they were paracausal and couldnt die

[dim minnow]

I get the feeling that Zavala isn't going to accept the Witness' offer

[frozen pawn]

I don't think he will too, but, if you look at his past again. Can you really blame him for joining the Witness?

Devotion inspires bravery, bravery inspires sacrifice, sacrifice leads to death.

No matter how much Devotion he put in, in the end, it only leads to the death of his family and more

"Devotion inspires bravery, bravery inspires sacrifice, sacrifice leads to death." he repeat this again and again after Amanda's funeral

[novel blade]

OH YES

then the witness

says

BOOM

oh wait

server wont let me say it

rip

[frozen pawn]

F

[novel blade]

witness says what speakers says

sorted

[past glen]

[fiery rover]

If he does think of how the aharamkara would twist that tho

Or if it would

[dim minnow]

given that these are Taranis' children, they might actually take after their father

[frozen pawn]

just don't let Mara raise them, then they should be fine...

[fiery rover]

Yea the only “good” one. Which is why I kinda half back tracked

[frozen pawn]

the only reason Taranis is difference from other Ahamkara is he already alone since the moment he's born.

If I remember correctly, his first meal was shell of the egg he was hatched from

[fiery rover]

Pure speculation here, but wouldn’t that be normal? Until they got that first taste of a wish being twisted?

Or can they absorb wishes beyond/before birth? Cuz i could imagine that being a thing

[frozen pawn]

no he did twisted his first wish (without anyone taught him so)

[fiery rover]

Well the wish isn’t what they feed on, it’s the twisting of that I thought that fed them.

[frozen pawn]

a Cabal wish to take a break from her patrol duty and Taranis created a sandstorm out of that wish (his first wish ever)

[fiery rover]

Ahh

But did he like it? Haha

[frozen pawn]

I think he do xD

because after he created the sandstorm, he hunted that poor cabal

[fiery rover]

I mean essentially he was imprisoned by the cabal. He had motive I think asides from “I wanna be violent”

If he was being guarded right?

Or wait patrol duty

Nvm

I was thinking a cabal was patrol gaurding his egg.

[frozen pawn]

no he just wander around Mars and think it's a good ideal to grant the Cabal's wish

[fiery rover]

Curiosity killed the aharamkhara 😂

[frozen pawn]

the Wish-Keeper bow description is the song that Taranis gave his child before he's gone to make sure they know who they are

[empty fern]

Too long didn’t read

[velvet hawk]

this isnt any of those tho?

[empty fern]

lol

[velvet hawk]

ahhh

[empty fern]

(Mael what’s with your discord backround)

[trim grotto]

i like colour

[velvet hawk]

is that ok?

[empty fern]

I want

[empty fern]

Probably not

(You can probably just edit that part out of the mile long paragraph)

[calm granite]

it is not

please edit out anything pertaining leaks

do note that yes theories are fine, just don't link them to leaks to sustain them ykno 🙂

[velvet hawk]

1. The garden exists and is outside of our universe, another dimension, simple.
2. The Gardener & Winnower are the pure energy of the Light & Dark that developed consciousness and played the flower game.
3. The Gardener is a female mother figure & The Winnower is a male father figure. One of compassion and change & one of violence and absolutes.
4. The Silver Wing Tree is a creation of raw Light and Dark Energy combining and places that experience this combination are where the trees can grow. The Garden, IO, RON and in my theory, yes even the guardian.
5. The reason IO was never returned to us us due to it being covered in Light. The witness Returned Mars after failing to infiltrate Rasputin and find Neptune and the veil. The witness returned Titan when it couldn't capture or even find the leviathan. The Witness NEVER returned IO due to it still being useful with the study of the tree and sheer amount of light energy there.
6. The Reason the Gardener spoke to saint-14 when he was experiencing what I like to refer to as, PTSD from his time in the infinite forest, the osiris Ordeal and in general everything he's seen. Was due to him being part darkness due to his exo side and Exos naturally being that bit more loose And violent and then the light side which is his guardian side so most exo guardians In my eyes being the closest to a being of both Light and Dark. So she said be more like your light side and not like your Dark Side as if it was a son and the mum and dad were divorced.
7. The Gardener desires for us to have transcendence. A life where there are no fixed terms or classes dividing us and splitting us into these rules of the winnower. We have all the rules to use and we can create whatever we want which is prismatic.

8. That is where prismatic plays, its bungie testing the idea of using different elements at the same time and combining them into transcendent moves. Preparing us for the next saga of destiny. Prismatic will be the norm.
9. Destiny 3 will be an overall story of philosophy, the Light vs Dark and while this Saga is about defeating the witness It's realistically down to power, we can afford to kill him Due to him not actually being this force of the universe. We aren't killing time itself, we are killing the time traveler. Therefore destiny 1 is the base, destiny 2 was a story of Power and destiny 3 will be a saga of Philosophy. We aren't trying to kill the Winnower because that very well could destroy the universe but we are going to, with the Gardener, battle the winowwer and convince him and shift his philosophy of one Of balance so both forces and develop the universe. Since the winnower seems to have a personality that could be changed.

[velvet hawk]

That not have any leaks ?

[calm granite]

Why would there even be a d3

anything that transpired in dubious gaming website articles were dubious claims of dubious sources

don't believe any goober from pcgamer or aztecross' channel telling you X is true

they can barely get basic facts about stuff that's already in the game right

[empty fern]

Beyond light was a community effort

[velvet hawk]

I've thought there will be a destiny 3 since destiny "2" came out plus, they said this is the end of the light and dark saga and if the 3 episodes cantt cover enough content for 4 years worth i do belive thier will be a destiny 3

[calm granite]

the 3 episodes don't cover anout for 4 years lmao

they released their dates, each lasts around 4 months

it's just differently timed seasons

they'll just ... release another expansion and more episodes ykno

this is how live service games go, there's usually little to no value gained in making another game

[velvet hawk]

another expansion means more data and the file size for 1 game will be far too big,

[velvet hawk]

they did it for destiny 1 to 2 and it worked

[empty fern]

Are we really at the point where d2 is too big?

[calm granite]

In what world did it work lmao

d2 was plagued by terrible press in its first 3 years

it required tremendous effort to get back to anything resembling a stable point

not to mention the still droves of people asking for older content back

[trim grotto]

1: We cannot prove the Garden exists due to the fallibility and metaphorical nature of Unveiling. It may exist, but we can't prove it.
2: Same thing. An interpretation of the metaphor is that these are roles that have been enacted.
3: Same thing.
4: The Tree of Silver Wings of Io was, to be clear, planted on Io by Osiris. Inherently, it is neither Light nor Dark, but can absorb the force of either. Fascinating thing.
5: Mars was returned thanks to Savathûn. We don't know how, but Eris Morn has said so. We don't know how Titan returned, but theories largely follow that Macrocosm was involved.
The reason that these locations were stolen, so far as we're aware, was so that the Witness may study their pasts in an attempt to find the Veil, as we saw with Titan and Mars.
Io's terraforming energies are also differentiated somewhat from standard Light. Asher and the Cabal both attempted to use it as Light, and neither could manage it.
6: I assume you refer to the Legacy Oath Mark? We don't know if that was the Gardener, but many folks assume it was more to do with the Darkness, due to the nature of the Alkahest and Tower dream. She didn't say be more like your Light side at all, that's a big leap of interpretation.
7: ???
8: ???
9: ???

[blazing wasp]

10: profit

[empty fern]

Tower npc line of the day
“My feet are killing me, why haven’t we discovered some golden age shoe tech company”

[frozen pawn]

now that the new trailer came out, I really do hope we will have a chance to visit the city below us at some point

We don't have much chance to see how people live & don't even know what they think of the Guardian in the first place

[empty fern]

Sire, best we getting is a cutscene and some calcified civilians

As for how one would revert that? Not too sure

[restive nymph]

What if marathon did not exist at all and would not be launched then bungie could make a game of destiny before collapse and saw what golden age was really like, traveling to Golden aged cosmodrome and edz and other planets (Venus Mars and mercury)

[jagged badge]

Why though?

What would you actually do in that game?

[restive nymph]

For lore lore and for curiosity

[restive nymph]

Idk just explore

[jagged badge]

Okay but that doesn’t make a game lmao

[lapis thistle]

Ye i just watched the cutsceane with Cayde 6 my boy is back

[restive nymph]

Yh now I think abt it

It sucks

[lapis thistle]

(i was late i know)

[frozen pawn]

the Warlords vs Iron Lords period could be better

but

we all know

that won't happen

xD

[restive nymph]

That's a better idea

But still tho whats the point of the game tho ?

[frozen pawn]

that why it won't happen

[maiden kraken]

Aren’t the nine planets?

[jagged badge]

No

The Nine are cosmic dust who developed sentience based on gravity and the existence of life in Sol

Their existence is tied to the survival of Sol

[maiden kraken]

that’s deep

thanks

[analog torrent]

“Praedyth wished hard. Wished it would never end.” - Age-Old Bond
Did this contribute to him being lost in the vog?

[trim grotto]

Maybe!

[empty fern]

Wait what

Praedyth was in last wish?

[trim grotto]

so
what's your... timeline here

[empty fern]

Or atleast related to it, (hush i never heard age old bond)

[trim grotto]

Great Ahamkara Hunt

[empty fern]

Ah ok

[ember storm]

Last wish gear is great hunt gear

that’s why the armor says “of the great hunt”

[empty fern]

Great hunt did indeed happen

[tawdry mauve]

Is prismatic going to be treated as a narative element or is it just lore accurate guardians™️

What we thinking

[trim grotto]

Element. It isn't Lore Accurate Guardian™️ at all.

[calm granite]

the vidocs specifically say we discover prismatic at the start of the campaign

you fall off the stairs and end up in front of a pink ball of stuff

[tawdry mauve]

But what was stopping guardians from just using different abilities together when they wanted to lmao

[trim grotto]

Well only Osiris ever did this, and he was arguably the greatest Warlock of all time.

[tawdry mauve]

Right

So whats the difference

[trim grotto]

It was also all Light and wasn't ever simultaneously, but sequentially.

Prismatic is the active mixture of Darkness and Light into a new power, as well as the simultaneous use of other elements.

[tawdry mauve]

So its a new power but not a new element?

[trim grotto]

You could argue there are connections to the Shard of the Traveler and the Awoken as they're both mixes of Light and Dark.

It's certainly a new form of this kind of mixture, though.

So new power/element, yes. Whichever term you want to use. Prismatic never existed before as far as we're aware.

[ember storm]

Prismatic is actually using the elements at the same time and mixing them

Osiris just swapped between light rapidly

[eager trout]

So I can take a Vex shell and turn it into my personal robot?

[trim grotto]

Running on what power, manipulated by what intelligence?

No, the Vex power and run the chassis.

[eager trout]

Oh

[trim grotto]

You could always just get a Frame.

[eager trout]

A what

[trim grotto]

Y'know, a 55-30 or something.

Like Kadi.

[ember storm]

you can’t get one like Arcite though

he’s a special boy

[little gorge]

honestly i think the way they're going to tie this into the lore is they treat it as just transcendence (aka using light and dark simultaneously)

like I don't think we're going to "discover" the ability to use a solar grenade and a void melee

[ember storm]

you say that, but the young wolf had to be told by the traveler directly just to use a new light subclass super

on two separate occasions

[ember storm]

Osiris
Lord Shaxx
Devrim Kay
Oryx
Marc 
Suraya Hawthorne
Mara Sov 
Sjur Eido
Eramis 
Athrys 
Ana Bray
Camrin Dumuzi
Elisabeth Bray 
Ikora Rey 
Drifter 
Eriana-3 
Wei Ning 
Micah-10
Hector Abram
Wesley Abram
Chalco Yong
Amrita Vae
Kazia
Maya Sundaresh
Chioma Esi
Nimbus
Stargazer 
Quinn Laghari
Paolo
Adinew
You```

the list™️

[rustic ocean]

wdym You

[ember storm]

Guardian uses they/them

[rustic ocean]

Oh

[west cloak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/nrhct4/pride_month_lgbt_character_list/

thread from 3 years ago

[bold plinth]

what is the ishtar collective?

[west cloak]

golden age group who studied the vex stationed on venus

[analog torrent]

meta: lore website where most of the lore is stored

[west cloak]

im pretty sure they also discovered neomuna before it became neomuna

[ember storm]

I mean

there was nothing to discover

it was literally just empty Neptune

[gentle geyser]

Thats less of an actual lore thing and more so just so that its easier to refer to both genders

[blazing wasp]

Though I cannot speak for bungie I imagine your guardian are the pronouns you give them

[cursive pawn]

I just thought my guardian was a she

[jagged badge]

Some dialogue is gendered, some isn’t

[analog torrent]

What loretab does Amanda teach the wrong word to an Eliksni? Missing it in my collection 🙏

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/iii-gifts-from-the-shore

@analog torrent, if you weren't already aware, Shattered Cipher is the third entry in this little collection.

Helena walked slowly to the trash piled in the corner. Towels soaked with blue fluid. Rubbery tubes, strange scraps of metal. A laminated card that read "TEMPORARY."

It's the same Eliksni.

[analog torrent]

Yeah that one's on the list
I've been making a note of every loretab I've read for easy retrieval
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YMVBaQS1BvlSl_A5EF83OufEIBjl70TuHoLGtioXpl0/edit?usp=sharing

[trim grotto]

[red edge]

Let's be real. Faced with the future of this franchise, what really compares to the Witness and our sheer power going forward?

The Witness is the main antagonist of the franchise that we've been fighting since the very beginning.

After we beat them, what logically makes sense or is satisfying to face after the Witness' defeat? There's nothing we know of that's more powerful other than the Gardener and Winnower.

The Nine, Ahamkara, Sindu, Hive, Vex, all of them seem ultimately inconsequential compared to ethereal nature of the Witness.

If Rhulk was like our Darkseid/Thanos, the Witness would be our Anti-Monitor/Beyonder.

So is it just as simple as the Winnower being The Great Darkness? (Unironically)

[jagged badge]

Well, for one I don’t believe stories necessarily have to be an endless progression of stronger and stronger and stronger enemies
Two, who knows what will happen

[ember storm]

majority of destiny’s runtime hasn’t really been about the witness directly

it only started being an active force for us in Shadowkeep

[analog torrent]

Still waiting on Aphelion lore

[jagged badge]

And it’s not like every boss we’ve ever fought has necessarily been stronger than the one before

[ember storm]

nah Taniks the abomination is definitely in every way stronger than the taken king

nothing compares

[red edge]

It doesn't have to go that way for every boss, but in terms of the main struggle for existence. The Witness was behind everything we've ever faced since Destiny 1. We just didn't get a name and face(s) until The Witch Queen.

Being realistic, from a gameplay perspective it doesn't matter. They can say anything and as long as gameplay continues, it's just a means to keep us shooting things and the game alive.

From a logical and story perspective, it's difficult to imagine where things would go afterwards.

With the power we're about to get, if Xivu, Fikrul, or whatever other goon shows up playing god, the Guardians should be so powerful it won't even matter. It's like a Luke post-Return of the Jedi type situation. We've reached a pinnacle of power and defeated the apex of rivalry. What else stands a chance?

[ember storm]

again you’re saying that as if we adhere to sword logic or something

we don’t

defeating the witness is going to be incredibly complicated and challenging to even start with

[cursive pawn]

I mean there could always be more threats outside of sol

[chrome fog]

Don't always need escalating stakes, can still have issues in the system happening even though they're not existence-threatening

[blazing wasp]

i'd say warmind was less stakes than for example curse of osiris

actually a good chunk of dlc's were very varying in stakes, and not escelating

red war had us risk sol, curse had us potentially risking everything

warmind had us risk a important asset, rasputin

forsaken was mostly just revenge

with the stakes at hand mainly being the risk of no revenge

shadowkeep had technically stakes where eris had the potential to worsen mentally leading to big bad, but thats a maybe and the only real potential for stakes

beyond light was done before house salvation was large enough to be presentable as a genuine, real threat

witch queen was real shit, risking our entire city

lightfall was us unknowingly risking the fate of everything.

[somber stone]

bet zavala will turn to the witness

[dim minnow]

I doubt it, at least not willingly

[somber stone]

The witness is gonna give him something so good he wont refuse

[analog torrent]

Season of the haunted was all about him getting over his wife and kid

And in the vidoc, he says “I used to think I’d give anything to bring you back” in a house with curtains, and later on a cottage that resembles his cottage with his wife and kid appears

[somber stone]

I mean you never know those kids might be so real he cant résiste

[faint steeple]

can someone tell me what the lore of the witness is

[somber stone]

Damn your right

[analog torrent]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI

[somber stone]

Then i wish he would turn to the witness XD better lore

[chrome fog]

Very clearly he’s been still struggling with holding the responsibilities that he has, but 1) there were very specific steps taken for the Witness to become the way it is, and 2) it’s more likely the Witness is going to kill/something equivalent to Zavala as a slight against us

[faint steeple]

Thx

[cursive pawn]

Just kill zavala off

[chrome fog]

The Witness has very specific motivations for its actions, motivation that Zavala does not really have, he’s moreso tired and exhausted with all that he’s done

[cursive pawn]

Easy peasy

[chrome fog]

Really stupid decision after getting another voice actor for him

[cursive pawn]

I guess

Im just biased

[somber stone]

I mean he is able to controle a ghost maybe he'll do it to zavala as hes the weakest minded

[cursive pawn]

I hate zavala and crow

[chrome fog]

No it ain’t

Not entirely

[analog torrent]

Zavala’s whole deal is that he’s mentally strong because as vanguard commander, he has to be

[somber stone]

Well like a genjutsu you know

I know but he has a lot to carry

Lots of burden

[analog torrent]

Zavala is based for keeping his shit together all these years

Crow is based for moving past all the unearned vitriol that’s been thrown at him from countless strangers and also we need a vanguard, hunters haven’t had one for so long

[dim minnow]

The only thing the Witness has on Zavala is his faltering faith in the Traveler

[cursive pawn]

True just still hate them

[dim minnow]

Even then, that was probably mitigated by the end of Seraph

[somber stone]

For me he acts though because he has too the witness will show him a different path where is in a better place and bam!! He falls for it he become a hostage

[dim minnow]

You know who else gates Zavala? Petra Venj!

[cursive pawn]

Thats why i like her

[chrome fog]

She’s a bitch

[somber stone]

True

[chrome fog]

Roll the list!

[somber stone]

Talk est about mara son cant stand it

Sht*

[chrome fog]

https://discord.com/channels/297116500232372224/1119631517287727225

[somber stone]

Cat is the witness

[analog torrent]

Dovadah what are your professional loremaster thoughts on Saladman 🙏

[dim minnow]

Can't rn, but if you look up messages by me with the keyword Petra and go to the last page, you should find it.

[dim minnow]

He cool

[chrome fog]

How do you make the bot show the whole message

[dim minnow]

I usually just copy the message link

[chrome fog]

Daww role specific privileges

[candid inlet]

dovadah (ID 437459720937144320)

Message Link to #📚lore-discussion

1. She was forced to work in the Last City as an Emissary as punishment for calling an airstrike that killed 3 fireteams of Guardians and their Ghosts who were fighting deeply entrenched Fallen Wolves.
2. While in exile, she showed great disdain towards the people of the city thinking that the "don't know their place".
3. Between Red War and Forsaken, when Cayde apprehended Fikrul and Uldren, she decided to lock Uldren up in the Prison of Elders alongside Fikrul and the other Scorn Barons and made sure only her, Cayde, and Variks were the only ones to know that the Prince was still alive.
4. After this, she left the task of curing Uldren and Fikrul's respective conditions solely on Variks' shoulders which could be seen as one of the leading factors behind his decision to abandon the Prison starting the vents of Forsaken. Could of asked techeuns or even the Last City to help, but no, must not make her people any less happy I guess.
5. She heavily despises Zavala even going to the point to where she fantasizes about being superior to him and mopping up his dissolved remains off of the floor. Not even joking here.
6. I really doubt she had no idea what Uldren was planning until she failed to stop him at the EDZ. She may not have known about Riven being behind it, but she had to know that Uldren took over the Tangled Shore so he could get to the Dreaming City. Maybe the Vanguard would have gotten involved if they knew Uldren could unleash a Taken Ahamkara, and maybe the Dreaming City fisaco wouldn't have been so bad. Instead Petra kept it a secret until after Uldren was able to reach his goal.
7. She wasn't even the one who summoned Guardians to aid the Awoken in the Dreaming City, that would be Paladin Kamala Rior.
8. Variks questioned quite a few of Petra's decisions as acting regent, including her lack of action towards preventing the Scorned Barons from growing in power.
9. Despite everything that has happened thus far, she has refused to change unlike Mara.

Command triggered by dovadah. Message link from · Jun 18, 2023, 6:34 AM

[dim minnow]

@cursive pawn

[cursive pawn]

I know

Just rather have her then Zavala and crow

@dim minnow

[dim minnow]

May your shinies be far and few between

[cursive pawn]

Already got mine

🤣

[empty fern]

(May they be powercrept)

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/booo-gif-25966356

[dim minnow]

Ryujin rolls most Torment take ever, asked to jump off of tower

[opaque bobcat]

Is there a reason why the scorn had their weapons (especially the barons) when they were in prison

[empty fern]

Probably scavenged together from prison debris or something

Not sure how the ghost killer shot was made for sniper, probably crow or something

Or

It’s the prison of elders so, they’ll need weapons to fight

[opaque bobcat]

do we know if they were planned to be in the prison of elders

[empty fern]

Not sure (but most prisoners were probably kept for prison of elders)

[dim minnow]

I don't believe they were

[empty fern]

Like even skolas

[chrome fog]

Devourer round like the one used in the original Thorn, most likely smuggled

[jagged badge]

Technically not a Ghost killer shot

It was a Cayde killer shot

That got used on his Ghost instead

[empty fern]

Lemme nap

[compact sky]

one thing I dont understand about Cayde's death is how come Zavala's ghost wasn't killed during the armistice

[jagged badge]

They caged it

They didn’t kill it

[jagged badge]

By which I mean Targe was shot with some restrictive tech based on the Traveler cage

[compact sky]

why didn't they just kill the ghost? I don't really have a sense of how resilient the ghosts are

[jagged badge]

They can be sorta resilient but the cage just guarantees they can do what they wanted to do I guess

[frozen finch]

Playing the WQ campaign on my titan and I was watching the cutscene where savathun is rezzed for the first time by immaru. She thanks us for helping her remember, which I assume means she remembers everything that happened before being granted the light. Does this mean if a light bearer learns enough about their past they regain their memories?

[opaque bobcat]

they're supposed to be pretty tough against normal firepower unless it's thorn

or getting crushed by a guardian hand

i wanna know if a ghost can beat a hydraulic press

[jagged badge]

Nope

Misconception

Ghosts are resilient but it doesn’t have to be fancy paracausal stuff

Petra killed Ghosts accidentally with a conventional airstrike/bombing run

Ada killed Ghosts with a sniper rifle

[eager trout]

Who or what is Ashemere?

[jagged badge]

Asher Mir, in the Vex network

[opaque bobcat]

oh wow

[eager trout]

Yeah, who or what is it?

[novel blade]

was a scientist on io

very into vex tech

[jagged badge]

And a Guardian

[ember storm]

It was meant to really destroy any chance at human cabal relations

[cunning stirrup]

so how exact does "returning to orbit" work in a real sense? is our ship just waiting in the orbit of the planet we are, and we get transmatted when we hold O to "return to orbit"?

[ember storm]

Using the same technology the red legion used to seal the light and kill countless guardians was part of the blow

[jagged badge]

Not sure how much range we have on the transmats tbh. That might be the case. Or maybe our ship has to get closer and then we fly up into orbit

[ember storm]

transmats have to be connected on a network so distance isn’t really the issue

connection is

it’s why whenever we have one of those missions where we have to run to open space our ship is right there waiting for us

[eager trout]

What are the quarantined Vex in Avalon?

Can a Ghost be a Lightbearer? (Or more specifically, can a Ghost use Light the same way a Lightbearer can?)

[gentle geyser]

No

Hence why they have to revive guardians

[eager trout]

Then what's the explanation for the Void, Solar, and Arc shells?

[gentle geyser]

Purely cosmetic

[eager trout]

Well anyway, what are the quarantined Vex inside Avalon?

[shadow crypt]

What’s this?

[worldly river]

The logo of the Ishtar Collective

Golden Age research institute run out of Venus, Maya Sundaresh and Chioma Esi being notable members, they notably studied the Vex and worked with Clovis Bray in the creation of Exos and some of their staff were on the Exodus Indigo and led the creation of Neomuna

[eager trout]

Somehow, everything goes back to Clovis Bray

[worldly river]

He had his fingers in a lot of pies

[eager trout]

Is it safe to assume the Vex Mythoclast has the same additional utility functions as the Slap Rifle and other Vex weapons?

[worldly river]

The what

Oh that

Dunno what utility functions Vex weapons have, personally, but it wouldn't surprise me for Mythoclast not to have them given it was constructed for human use for... Some reason

I imagine it's intended to be a weapon above all else

[gentle geyser]

Pretty sure this was settled a long while ago that they are foremost weapons and are intended for weapons

[dim minnow]

technically, it was so they can get revenge on Amtec's behalf

[wide condor]

do you think that defeating the witness is gonna be at the last mission of the campaign or in the raid?

[dim minnow]

could be both

[gentle geyser]

Raid and the mission after the raid

Im a firm believer that we aren’t gonna make it in time to stop the final shape which leads into the raid

[worldly river]

Defeat will be in the mission, iirc they've explicitly said the raid will be "weakening" the Witness

[gentle geyser]

No

They’ve said that it might not be enough

[worldly river]

As in what

[gentle geyser]

In reference to the raid

And then immediately after that comment

They said that its a moment where we need to rally all guardians

[worldly river]

I mean yeah that's not mutually exclusive of what I said

I said that iirc they said we would weaken the Witness in the raid

And then the climax mission would obviously be defeating it

[gentle geyser]

When was this stated

[worldly river]

I don't remember that's why I said "iirc"

[gentle geyser]

[worldly river]

But it also wouldn't make sense for it to just be defeated in the raid wholesale anyway

Cuz then wtf would the climax mission be about

[wide condor]

teabagging the body

[gentle geyser]

Stopping the final shape

[wide condor]

every dlc had a mission after the raid? i dont remember it from previous dlcs

[gentle geyser]

We’ve also defeated several big bads in raids before

[worldly river]

And what would stand in our way if the Witness is already dead

[worldly river]

Because those happened after the campaign was done

The raid happens before the final mission here

It's timegated for after Worlds First

[worldly river]

None of them have had that no, unless you count Preservation which isn't really a "mission"

[wide condor]

so how do you know this dlc will have a mission after the raid?

[worldly river]

Because Bungie has explicitly told us that

[wide condor]

oh ok cool

[worldly river]

Normally a campaign would be 8 missions, this time we have 7 missions at launch, then the raid race 3 days after launch, and that will unlock the final campaign mission for everyone

Bungie has said that the Witness IS the final raid boss, and I BELIEVE Bungie said that we'll weaken the Witness in the raid, not defeat it

[wide condor]

thats a nice change.
to make sure i dont get lost in TFS campaign, are there any characters/enemies I should read about other than The Witness before going in?

[worldly river]

Well Zavala, Ikora, Cayde, and Crow are all in it so they're key figures

Aside from them Caitl, Mithrax, and Savathun seemingly show up so that's be good to know a little about, though it's unlikely they'll be significant

[wide condor]

when was the first appearance/mention of The Witness ?

[ember storm]

First time it spoke to us was Shadowkeep

first time we had a name and face was witch queen

retroactively speaking, the first “mention” of the witness would be anytime darkness was mentioned as an entity

[wide condor]

and what do we know so far about the portal that crow went thru?

why cayde told crow that crow also died?

[dim minnow]

before Crow was rezzed as a guardian, he was Uldren Sov

and before Uldren died, he killed Cayde

hence why Cayde attacked him when he entered the Pale Heart

after Cayde was killed by Uldren, we hunted down and killed him in revenge

then Uldren would be rezzed as Crow who did not have his memories

then, later on, Crow would regain his memories via Savathun who did it to stir some discord among us

[cold onyx]

Was Osiris possessed during season of dawn

[dim minnow]

no

he got possessed at the start of Season of the Hunt which happened at the start of Y4 (Beyond Light release)

Dawn was the 2nd season of Y3

[cold onyx]

And was the crown of sorrow in presage?

And like how did he get possessed

Does the opening cutscene to loghtfall have any point to the story

To the light fall campaign

Like the witness was standing outside the traveler for so long

[opaque bobcat]

well it's why amanda got captured

and it shows that osiris went after calus

[outer dragon]

I think the Witness and The Deep are not the same entity

[ember storm]

that’s the point of Lightfall

the witness has to pin down the traveler and keep it still while Calus goes to retrieve the veil

[ember storm]

yes

we never took the crown after the raid, so Calus kept it and eventually tinkered with it to try linking scorn minds together in an attempt to make contact with the witness

after contact was made and he and the leviathan were whisked away, the glykon was overrun with the scorn and all the loyalists aboard either fled or died, since Calus abandoned them

[shadow crypt]

Thanks

I wonder how that got there

[half scaffold]

Ya know, I’ve been wondering every since D1, and trying to piece together what I can.

What on EARTH is the year that this takes place in? XD

Has that still yet to be told?

[worldly river]

A bunch of Ishtar scientists got simulated by the Vex, became aware of that, and are exploring the network, so something to do with that

Likely we'll find out more after TFS, this last year indicated the Ishtar stuff will be an important facet of the upcoming Vex story

[ember storm]

humanity first makes contact with the traveler in “present day”

which then leads into the golden age which lasts quite a few centuries

then the collapse, dark age, and city age all cover at least a millennium

at this point we’re never going to get a concrete number but honestly I don’t think that’s a bad thing

vague “it’s been centuries since [insert event]” serves narratives better

you’re not bogged down by specific dates and times, just sequence

makes it easier to write and ingest as an audience

like just the fact that the hive have existed longer than the ground making up the earth says a lot

we don’t need a specific number on it

[eager trout]

Remember: there's supposedly going to be a manned mission to Mars on 2030

What can MIDA Minitool do?

How advanced is Eliksni tech?

What are the requirements for being chosen by a Ghost?

If I understood well, MIDA Multitool's functions are more geared towards military, while MIDA Minitool's functions are more geared towards survival, right?

[gentle geyser]

Considering that servitors can make enemies invincible and half their enemies in game are robots, pretty damn advanced

Keep in mind they also had the traveler helping them

[analog torrent]

Meta question
Does Ishtar go down when destiny goes down

[dim minnow]

Ishtar.net?

I think you should still be able to read existing lore on the site

[novel blade]

lore site does not go down no

[chrome fog]

If this is in reference to irl, that’s not exactly a straight parallel to the timeline in the Destiny universe; even then the Golden Age lasted an undefined amount of time, the Dark Age has been estimated at around a millennia maybe, and then the City Age has to have lasted a couple centuries considering Eris used to be a City citizen prior to becoming a guardian, which was waaay prior to the Great Disaster and then the Hellmouth incident

[chrome fog]

Eevee you’ve been in this channel enough times to hear that a Ghost chooses whomever they want to resurrect

[chrome fog]

The MIDA weapons are similar to the Dares weapons in that they are a reference to another Bungie title: Marathon. In the Multitool’s lore tab, Zavala or someone even states they have no idea where the weapon came from nor the MIDA organization it is supposedly produced by

[remote sky]

Can someone explain ghost shells? Is there even a thing for that? I'm wondering how they're made, discovered, chosen, etc, y'know?

[iron mortar]

They are just ways people mod their ghosts

Ghosts are technology after all, and people are able to mod their shells

[remote sky]

Tokki and glint tho? Their shells were different before a guardian got to them, no?

Tokki isn't even confirmed to have a guardian.

[iron mortar]

It is possible they got their shells changed before they found their guardian

[remote sky]

Guh

I know tokki was led to the nanites stuff by a pouka, but glint was just kinda.. like that

[chrome fog]

There is a lore tab which mentions specifically that his current shell is a gift

This was back when he was called Pulled Pork

[remote sky]

HOOH

[remote sky]

Never heard of this !!! Do show

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/pulled-pork

Pulled Pork finishes up a scan of a floating piece of concrete and rebar, then turns toward them.

"I am looking for my Guardian!" he chirps.

"That's nice. You gonna find him in that rock?"

"You never know, Miss Nkechi Thirty-Two. Maybe my Guardian is very small."

"Maybe," Nkechi agrees. "But you might want to consider scanning the dead, bud. That shell's pretty snappy. Is it new?" It's Reef-purple, with a flowerlike silhouette and silver detailing.

"Yes! It is. It was a gift. And, thank you for your suggestion. I have considered it! I do often scan the dead. I also scan other things. I like to be thorough." Pulled Pork bobs in place politely, almost bowing.```

[tender cove]

Do we have any idea who the shrouded figures are in the trailer?

[trim grotto]

Not with any level of confidence, no.

[kindred fractal]

If the Witness isn't the Winnower then who tf is

[trim grotto]

Perhaps nobody specifically. The name only really exists or is in reference to Unveiling, and there's a legitimate argument that it is, as the entire book is, a metaphor.

It may be, for example, a concept. A role that the Witness has claimed in its endeavours.

[dim minnow]

something something winnower isn't real something something ramming the tower gift shop in my shitty bronco

[trim grotto]

Seth's work has been recontextualised before so I'm not putting all my chips on that meme

[heavy vortex]

Casual reminder now that leaks are currently spreading: #📚lore-discussion message

Anyone who fails to follow this rule will be muted till final shape or be removed from the server.

[candid inlet]

sapphic.moe (ID 312145496179474434)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
Hi all!

I’d like to remind all of you that speculation about upcoming content is fine, but discussion surrounding leaks and-or datamines are still against our rules and are met with moderator action when broken.

If you have any questions, please refer to #✅welcome-and-rules or open a ticket via #💌contact-us.

For more information about lore-sources please see the pinned messages below.

Command triggered by xovenetia. Message link from · Jun 17, 2023, 2:19 PM

[empty fern]

I shall be the message after the pin

[smoky rose]

Alright checking if I can type here

Okay cool

[empty fern]

(Nuh uh)

[fresh zephyr]

I’ve been listening to a pretty fantastic audio book style reading of the Book of Sorrows, it’s by this channel called The Spoken Lore and he only has 32 subs

[empty fern]

Hmmmm

[fresh zephyr]

But he reads them really well, and he adds some nice deepening filters for the hive voices and subtle creepy ambience in the back

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpFu8Xjioq0OeRo9ozTfJvWS2WyCQmOtR&si=Gw-uIiCozQ4LHjoZ

[vale cradle]

So, I didn't play the last two seasons at all.
Why are we able to get into the Traveler now?
How did Crow get in?

[empty fern]

Here

[empty fern]

. Rough summary of everything

[vale cradle]

Thank you!

[heavy vortex]

Destiny recap made by Dovadah

D1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y3 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y3 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y4 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y4 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y5 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y5 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y6 Part 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y6 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

Season of the wish and Into the light: <#📚lore-discussion message>

[empty fern]

Yay

[vale cradle]

Crow made an unintended wish?

[empty fern]

Like money paw unintended or or something else

[jagged badge]

That’s related to Cayde, not us crossing the portal

[vale cradle]

And what happened to Savathun?
Is she just chilling now?

[vale cradle]

What was his wish?

[empty fern]

Do we know?

[jagged badge]

He was listing his regrets based on his past life and how he could pretty much resolve all of them except Cayde, and that he wished he could tell Cayde he was sorry

[empty fern]

Oh yea savathuns wish was the portal, not crows (I forgor)

[vale cradle]

And what's up with Savathun now?

Surely she won't just sit by idly?

[worldly river]

She's seemingly decided to let us deal with this, probably cuz she believes we can and her involvement would only risk herself

That being said she's in one of the trailers briefly, in gameplay form, and I fully expect her to at least send a detachment of Hive Lightbearers to help us at some point. My source being it'd be cool as fuck.

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/avengers-avengers-assemble-avengers-endgame-captain-america-gif-23247411

The source in question

[spiral hawk]

I am guessing that at some point in the story where its us + Fallen + Cabal on the backfoot about to be killed Savathun will show up with the lucent hive to turn the tide

[empty fern]

[lapis thistle]

You know this will be like the endgame type of stuff in destiny 2

[worldly river]

Yeah that's fully my expectation lol

[knotty fossil]

What is the first knife?

[trim grotto]

Part of the Unveiling metaphor. The tool became a weapon, a thing of death.

[knotty fossil]

Is there like - a counterpart to it? Or anything it's affiliated with?

Like guardians + traveler/Witness + Veil

[jagged badge]

The Winnower supposedly used the First Knife against the Gardener. An act of violence against her wanting to change the rules of the game they played

[knotty fossil]

Interesting

I need to catch up on the winnower, thanks

[jagged badge]

There isn’t really anything beyond Unveiling

[trim grotto]

Not that I'm aware of, no. It was more of what it represented. That which separated the wheat from the chaff, now a weapon.

But as Eris said, there's very little beyond Unveiling itself, a self-described metaphor apparently sent by the Witness.
There's Winnowing from Inspiral, and a short reference to it in Entelechy, and... little else.

[analog torrent]

MANIFEST DESTINY 🦅 THE 100 STATES OF AMERICA

[eager trout]

I meant the sacrifice and something else thing that people consider the requirements for becoming a Guardian.

[eager trout]

I meant that the Traveler was found on Mars in the "present day", and that in the real life "present day" there's going to be a manned mission to Mars, just like the one where the Traveler was found.

[eager trout]

That wasn't my question.

[blazing wasp]

AFAIK, both do both

They're ment to do a lot of shit and they're also guns.

[eager trout]

I was saying it based on the description

[blazing wasp]

That shoot bullets

[trim grotto]

Well, there's the Speaker's comment of Devotion inspires bravery. Bravery inspires sacrifice. Sacrifice… leads to death, but that isn't a hard rule. There isn't really a hard rule we can strictly define, there's a few little things here and there.

[blazing wasp]

They're both reliable for survival and stuff, it appears that they're probably ment for military where you spend a extended period of time in the wilderness

[trim grotto]

Mars, specifically.

[blazing wasp]

A way to stay alive and clean is extremely helpful for a soldier in the wilderness
It shooting bullets is also good

Disease is a major killer in war, preventing that is extremely useful for the military

[eager trout]

I wonder if it has a hot dog cooker

[spiral hawk]

Followed by the best roast in the destiny universe

[rugged bluff]

Is shin malfur dead or is he just walking around doing his own thing now

[jagged badge]

He’s alive and retired

[rugged bluff]

I feel like alot of the newer players don’t really know about him, I hope they bring him back into relevance eventually

[eager trout]

What's the lore on Shaders?

[jagged badge]

Probably some sort of technology like synthweave. I doubt there’s much specifics

They certainly exist in lore though

Surprised, I asked for her thoughts right away. I quickly learned that she has an impeccable sense for color and design. She didn't care to overtake the project of designing shaders for the Dawning, but she acted as a quiet and talented consultant. Over the next week or so, we spent many hours together sorting through rolls of fabric, comparing colors, considering combinations.```

[ember storm]

this was mostly a phrase the speaker came up with to make guardians feel better about themselves, like a “hey don’t worry about it you’re here because you’re the best etc etc”

The traveler did reference it at one point but mostly just as a way to convey what it hopes for, not what’s actually required to be risen

[hollow crag]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what’s the point of gambit in lore?

[trim grotto]

There are two main parts to it
Firstly, fuelling Drifter's ever mysterious doomsday plans.
Secondly, it was the catalyst to teaching us to use Darkness without succumbing to corruption; easing us into the at-the-time forbidden dangers. This process was, ironically, set up with the aid of Shin Malphur, who struck a deal with Drifter to use Shin as a boogeyman.

This is the same reason why Malfeasance was created; a weapon of Taken Blight supposedly to use against Shin.

[hollow crag]

This makes sense — thank you!!

[eager trout]

Drifter pulling a Batman and making contingency plans for his contingency plans

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/drifter-destiny-destiny2-gambit-laugh-gif-25143789

[hollow crag]

Is the player-guardian’s ghost susceptible to damage? I know for gameplay and continuity reasons our ghost never dies, but could it in theory be killed?

[trim grotto]

In theory, yes, just as easily as any other Ghost. Ghosts are, once the paracausality is stripped away, orbs of metal and glass. They're relatively fragile when placed in a dangerous situation. Even the Arc Spears of the Fallen have been known to carve a Ghost in twain.

So keep your little buddy safe

[hollow crag]

Will do! I had no idea ghosts could die; I thought it was just the hive ones.

[rain yarrow]

The most iconic ghost death imo is Cayde's ghost but Sagira is one we actively collect the remains of in Witch Queen I believe

[chrome fog]

Tape a hotdog on the barrel and keep firing for a long time, it’ll work

[jagged badge]

Hive Ghosts are exactly the same as our Ghosts

[chrome fog]

And as shared by others, that’s all technically not really a thing, if you read into some of the rezzes you might see that pattern but there are too many exceptions - Immaru being one example, the dead baby in Ghost stories another - for it to be a wholly true statement. Thus why I said what I said

[chrome fog]

And again, not really indicative of a timeframe, Missions to Mars have been discussed ever since the Moon Landing, even in 2014 we thought it would be sometime soon but realistically that could be either 2030 or a couple more decades

[lapis thistle]

do you guys belive that the winnower and the gardener are real ?

[trim grotto]

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
However, I'm currently considering the idea that they're as much metaphors as the rest of Unveiling, and that they're not strictly individuals in and of themselves. More like... concepts.

[lapis thistle]

sorry about my mistake i already correct it

[trim grotto]

Luckily, that doesn't change my answer.

[lapis thistle]

i also think that they are like not beings, but more a concpt as light and dark but its not ever clear

[lapis thistle]

ye i saw

[chrome fog]

I mean the Traveler has very consistently called the Gardener, so at the very least it would be a representation of the Traveler's values

Mael provided a pretty good explanation on how the Winnower itself is metaphorical: #📚lore-discussion message

[cold onyx]

Did the witness need the veil to enter the travrler

[chrome fog]

Explicitly yes

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CKckjryVI

[cold onyx]

So that’s why he stood outside the traveler for an extended period of time

[ember storm]

it had to force the traveler to remain still while Calus went to retrieve the veil

[lapis thistle]

Yes the portal take us to the pearl heart so yes

[ember storm]

it didn’t have a choice, it couldn’t be in two places at once

the only reason Calus was enlisted was for his army and genetic engineering tech

[lapis thistle]

But my question is the traveller is like the expression of the light so it is going to be always under danger

for those like us that serve Dark itself

[ember storm]

I don’t follow

[lapis thistle]

Like us the guardian are a vessel for the traveller, it gave us the powers we wield and the traveller is like a expression of the light in the destiny lore, so it is going always be under danger because the dark has his "guardians" like Oryx or Shavathun or the witness

[empty fern]

(Too deep?)

[ember storm]

darkness isn’t a sentient entity, the witness is the only thing handing it out to people for them to use

Savathun is also distinctly not aligned with darkness

the Traveler isn’t an expression of light, it is the actual primordial source of it

[lapis thistle]

ye i know that darness isnt a entity is more like a concpt, like light but those two forces are always going be in confort because without light there is not Dark and so one

[lapis thistle]

ye i did a miss take there

[ember storm]

they don’t need to be in conflict, guardians using stasis deepsight or strand is the perfect example of that

[empty fern]

Did bungie really use the “without light there is no darkness” concept some games have?

[ember storm]

the witness is the only thing that’s forced the two to be at odds for a millennium

actually way longer than that but you get the gist

[lapis thistle]

ye but stasis is more like, for me is more like a small part power of the dark, and dont forget that we as guardian are "special"

[ember storm]

the witness wants to use light and darkness for its own nefarious purposes, it’s not just “we want to kill light because light is good and darkness is evil”

[ember storm]

all guardians have the capacity to use light and darkness, and mortals can use darkness perfectly fine

[lapis thistle]

really i never knew that

mb i guess

[ember storm]

that was like the point of beyond light, Elsie just chose us specifically as an example for the rest of the guardians to prove stasis can be used for good

[ember storm]

guess what character this quote is from:

Darkness has its place just as much as light, for the stars sparkle twice as bright in the dark.

[lapis thistle]

i thought that the dark was using the witness

[ember storm]

dark is not a sentient being, it can’t do anything

[lapis thistle]

like oryx use the deep to be more powerfull

[ember storm]

darkness is a power and the witness is using it

[lapis thistle]

i know that is not a being but is more a concept

[ember storm]

it’s implied the deep is just the witness as it was still manipulating the hive

the witness is the original master of the taken, and oryx had to send his victims to “the deep” for them to be transformed

[empty fern]

Idk probably some dust bunnies

[ember storm]

Kirby

[empty fern]

Close enough

[ember storm]

not just the franchise, the quote is directly from Kirby himself

he says it out loud

[empty fern]

Kirby speaks a language?

[lapis thistle]

i always thought that the deep was like a manifestation of the drakness

[barren adder]

We know what it was our favourite Aunt Savathun that made de Colapse not been a total disaster but why and how did the Witness take so long to reach Earth again on after Shadowkeep?

[ember storm]

everyone thought that until the distinction was fully made in BL

[lapis thistle]

but there is one book that oryx "talked" with the winnower

[ember storm]

the darkness doesn’t have a voice, the witness was the only thing clouding itself in darkness

[ember storm]

the winnower is not real

[lapis thistle]

ye i play a bit but was never focus on the BL campaign

[lapis thistle]

Ye i know it is why i use "talked"

[ember storm]

this was Calus’ thoughts at his first encounter with the witness, where it still presented itself as just darkness:

At the edge of the universe, I stared into the infinite deep. It stared back, and was pleased. I would become the herald of its victory, and bear witness for all creation.

[lapis thistle]

and so, the gardener cant be real also, so they are concepts has i thought

[ember storm]

here’s him reflecting on it years later:

"When the Darkness found me adrift in the cosmos, rejected by a people I had made, I thought to have found a confidant. No—an idol. They promised to return to me, to uplift me—that we may dance together among the stars and drink of their dying ecstasy 'til the end, as one. But their chilling little fleet came and went. It was luscious, and so many tasted so much. Yet I am empty. Nothing. Trapped in this limbo of their lie."

[ember storm]

Unveiling is written as a metaphor for our basic understanding of its concepts, none of it actually happened

the traveler is called “gardener” elsewhere but that’s just because of its nature, the “winnower” does not exist outside of the metaphor

[lapis thistle]

So the witness is just a being using darkness but not comanding by "it"

[ember storm]

there is nothing commanding the witness, the darkness has no capacity for thought or communication

[weak prawn]

Are the people in neomuna in any danger if their on some server why don’t they just chill out with the cabal?

[ember storm]

the traveler is an entity that creates light, not the light itself

[ember storm]

cabal and vex are actively invading the city trying to find them or shut off the system housing their minds

if the cloudark connection is cut while everyone is inside they’ll all be killed

[lapis thistle]

ye i mean that sorry

[ember storm]

mass braindeath isn’t exactly an easy fix

[lapis thistle]

´but the witnesss just uses the darkness

[thick finch]

maybe i missed this and im a dummy, but why did the Vex need the black heart?? we know its a copy of the Veil, albeit an incomplete one from what i gather

[dim minnow]

The Black Heart was meant to allow the Vex to do what the Witness is trying to do

[lapis thistle]

ye i was saying that but i was not sure if i was right

[thick finch]

yes yes i see… do we know why they would need to do that though

[lapis thistle]

To achieve their ultimate goal of worping reality into their vission

[dim minnow]

Speak the royal tongue or I will pin you up for Eir to eat

[thick finch]

[jagged badge]

Is Oryx stupid?

[empty fern]

Clearly he doesn’t know his daughters ascendant lingo

[ember storm]

they didn’t have the veil nor access to the traveler

the black heart not only empowered them with darkness but was also gradually weakening the traveler

it’s just one of the many avenues the vex try to use in order to make their mass expansion and assimilation of the universe efficient

specifically, the black heart was used by the sol divisive, so the rest of the collective basically ignored it

[lapis thistle]

almost done with the seasonal missions

🫡 🫡

[empty fern]

Nuh uh,

[lapis thistle]

what you mean nuh uh

[empty fern]

NUH
UH

[lapis thistle]

What you mean by NUH UH

[rugged bluff]

Is the red death going to be the season pass exotic?

[jagged badge]

This is the wrong channel for this, and also I’d be wary asking questions like this since they could be related to leaks

[rugged bluff]

Nah I’m going somewhere with it

[dim minnow]

Bungie themselves said it would

But yeah, this ain't the channel for it

[rugged bluff]

I think the next season is probably going to be cabal themed

[dim minnow]

...

[dim minnow]

Uh, no it won't

[rugged bluff]

Saw that in the vox obscura mission

[dim minnow]

Echoes is most likely going to be Vex

[rugged bluff]

Very similar

[ember storm]

not particularly

[rugged bluff]

The circle with dot and triangle beneath it

[dim minnow]

There's been quite a bit of signposting on Bungie's end

[ember storm]

there are lots of circles and triangles in destiny

[rugged bluff]

They are literally almost the same

[dim minnow]

Vex is most likely

[ember storm]

that’s a basic cabal computer icon

what would the episode even be about

[rugged bluff]

Yeah but Cabal icon as the season exotic icon

[ember storm]

season exotics don’t have their own icon, they share it with the season

[rugged bluff]

How am I supposed to know what it’s going to be about it just seems too similar to be coincidence

[jagged badge]

It’s not that similar

[rugged bluff]

Ok the dot is a bit bigger but they are definitely similar

[ember storm]

everything has been pointing to vex

[ember storm]

the edges aren’t rounded and there’s not meant to be a bottom

the outer circle rotates

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/vex-destiny2-destiny-march-marching-gif-24546498

[empty fern]

What is this image, what’s going on behind it

Oh the sister is covering my part, ok i know it now

[desert pebble]

i got a question: Why does the witness hate the guardian if it tried to beckon it and gift it with weapons of darkness?

like giving us stasis

[empty fern]

We didn’t help it

[desert pebble]

so TFS is just the chimney throwing a tantrum?

i mean looking back, also helped by a video talking about it, the witnesses plan is actually really good, and spanning since shadowkeep

like the witness knows the best way to trick us is giving us fun shit

[remote sky]

How did the traveller even make all those species huge technological marvels? Did it inspire? Did it give them small pieces of it to study? Very confused.

[jagged badge]

I mean, not really. That’s never worked on us. We’re too noble to turn on the Last City because of a fancy new power

[remote sky]

All I know is that it makes the plant go whee

And we have fire and gravity and electricity, but how did we harness the light/elements in the first place?

[remote sky]

Tbh if the witness promised a siva subclass a good quarter of the guardians would turn way the fuck around lmaooo

[exotic cloak]

I mean, for a new weapon I'm sure the vast majority of actual players would join the witness but that's not good for storytelling

Imagine Witness just gets here, then says "hey kids you want to be demigods and get fancy guns" and then universe just gets restarted because we were busy having fun with our fancy weapons

[remote sky]

"c'mere I promise I'll give you a Siva subclass and I'll buff stasis and even give you 5 exotics free"

[exotic cloak]

With the stasis buff was enough to convince me, I'm in

[remote sky]

We humans are so easy omg we should not be winning

[desert pebble]

we kill gods for the sole motivation to turn them into loot, we killed a have god that was planning to save our god because it's ours to exploit

[remote sky]

REALLL

Also, this is coming for someone who seems to have an affinity for the witch queen dlc

[desert pebble]

I do really love the veritas set

[jagged badge]

That is not the Guardian’s motivation at all

We aren’t exploiting the Traveler, for one. We stopped Savathûn because without the Traveler, we’d become extinct, but also because the Traveler chose to stay and protect us

[desert pebble]

i mean it left and we didn't really want it to leave, then left again and we threatened to nuke its ass

actually idk what im talking abt i'll just go watch some byf

[dim minnow]

It never left us

[remote sky]

Elaborate

I think Clovis and warmind threatened to nuke it but that's bout it

[desert pebble]

it kinda did with savvy's help

[jagged badge]

No. Savathûn stole the Traveler and was doing a whole ass ritual to keep it there

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-the-witch-queen-power-winning-power-stance-gif-25210133

[dim minnow]

Clovis originally wanted Rasputin to destroy the Traveler and take its place, but thanks to Ana, Rasputin decided that was terrible and locked Clovis out of his systems

[empty fern]

Banger mission

[dim minnow]

Rasputin would then devise a protocol called Abhorrent Imperative where it planned on attacking the Traveler if it ever tried to flee Sol in the event of the Collapse

He was convinced it would, but Ana talked him down the last minute

Then at the end of Seraph, Eramis hijacked the Warsat network and attempted to shoot down the Traveler

However, Rasputin sacrificed himself to stop that from happening which was when the Traveler moved itself into Earth's orbit and refused to flee once again

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-traveler-seraph-gif-27562731

[little gorge]

should've had the part where it turns 90 degrees

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny2-traveler-gif-27562328

[exotic cloak]

Honestly I'm not a fan of Zavala on WQ but checking the campaign again damn

That moment when he looses it after we tell him Traveler resurrected Savathun is very good

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/hive-hive-propoganda-destiny2-zavala-commander-zavala-gif-25283725

[exotic cloak]

Yeah, we, the players. Actual characters on game have actual reasons to kill those gods

Usually, them oblitering us from existence

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-emperor-disciples_oryx-gif-25555392

Me when crota but die then oryx came around later

[chrome fog]

It’s a force, like gravity, centrifugal force, electromagnetism, and what not. Those are examples in physics - in regular Causality - and Light and Darkness are forces of Paracausality, affecting the physical and the mental respectively

[chrome fog]

I’m late to this but have you see the roadmap for the episodes of release?

[desert pebble]

excuses

the guardian is a psychopath and y'all can't defeat this headcannon

[chrome fog]

Bro hasn’t read the lore

[desert pebble]

what's lore

[chrome fog]

Look where ya at

[empty fern]

Wonder what crota was doing on the moon

[desert pebble]

is it made of cheese though

[exotic cloak]

Actually yeah I'm with this one

[desert pebble]

speaking of this, didn't shaxx get corrupted by savathun at some point

[chrome fog]

There’s one guardian you’re pointing too and his name is Savin, if you wanna say someone’s being game-accurate

[exotic cloak]

We the guardian are just a complete psycho bounty hunter who enjoys completely massacring other races

Since we don't have actual personality yeah this is good

[chrome fog]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/savin

[desert pebble]

i mean if you had respect for other enemies why would the guardian have taken enough lives to make genghis khan blush

[chrome fog]

Read Hawkmoon

[exotic cloak]

Fuck

Well goodbye to my headcanon

[chrome fog]

We’ve only fought combatants, we hadn’t gone full “The Saint” and pulled an Anakin

[desert pebble]

we shoudl

[chrome fog]

Notice how we haven’t killed any Eliksni babies in any campaigns

[chrome fog]

Think on your actions

[exotic cloak]

yet

[desert pebble]

since ikora is a top 1% guardian her boss fight would be hard

[chrome fog]

[chrome fog]

If you can’t top Crucible or Trials leaderboards you can’t beat Ikora because surprise she too is a Guardian

And a PvP nut to boot

[desert pebble]

yeah first 25 kill streak and beat shaxx in a 1v1 ik

but we killed god

[chrome fog]

With help

[desert pebble]

several times

[chrome fog]

And crippling them strategically

You never 1-on-1 killed any gods

Fucking Crota was only possible because a Knight of his and of Savathun got into a quarrel and ended up toppling his tithe system

And then Oryx was because we killed Crota and various other Ascendent Hive of his court

Savathun didn’t have access to her Hive God power because she didn’t have her worm

Xol was the weakest of the Worm Gods

[desert pebble]

sepiks perfected is refferred to exclusively as a machine god to the siva fallen, since the strike is soloable we kill a god with no help

[chrome fog]

Rhulk never took the fight seriously until the Final Stand

[chrome fog]

Big deal it was a large Servitor

Like are you really gonna claim that as a god kill

Taniks would’ve been a better comparison

[desert pebble]

it is said to be a god in in game dialogue

to the fallen at least

[chrome fog]

And I can call myself a PvE god, wow every time I get into Crucible the enemy team gets to be godkillers

[desert pebble]

hell servitors themselves are effigies of the traveler which is the machine god to them

[chrome fog]

They’re not gods

[desert pebble]

who killed em though

[chrome fog]

You killed a very big drone whom they worshipped

Congrats

[chrome fog]

Did you read how Crota became crippled

Powerscalers, every time

Point of Paracausality is to make powerscaling defunct

[desert pebble]

I feel like a giant effigy of their god resurrected by a nanoweapon hivemind strong enough to kill several dozen of iron lords, worshipped by its people on top of that can kinda fit the description of a god

[chrome fog]

If I burned a statue of Jesus does that make me a god killer

[desert pebble]

does the statue live?

[chrome fog]

Whatever, this discussion is beneath me

[desert pebble]

ok ima be real I like to spread misinformation so I can learn by getting corrected

idk why lore videos on powerscaling aren't really common

can ikora beat goku though

[empty fern]

Probably not

[analog torrent]

I don't know what you're talking about
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-2xjx4mlG68

[desert pebble]

nvm didn't check shorts

[analog torrent]

memes aside don't rely on shorts for lore

misinformation on the internet go brrrr
Shorts are just tiktoks hosted on Youtube; dopamine-click-generating machines with no real value

[desert pebble]

i mean that one doesn't really seem wrong

maybe oryx

[analog torrent]

nah I agree with that one
but like in general

[desert pebble]

yeeee

byf shorts are good, also that one guy with the birmingham accent

[chrome fog]

Byf?

[desert pebble]

i think his name is byf

[analog torrent]

His name is MyNameIsByf

[desert pebble]

saw him starside, he told me something something astra

[analog torrent]

per audacia ad astra?

[empty fern]

TDF exists (but don’t know his reliability)

[chrome fog]

He’s aight but he’s better for theoretical exotics

[analog torrent]

damn I knew him for his meme builds

[analog torrent]

What's the timeline of Felwinter's identity getting out? Read all the stuff tagged with Felwinter on Ishtar, haven't looked through Saladman's stuff because that dude has just shy of a thousand associated articles.

Dark Age - Rasputin knows immediately. Felwinter himself and Felspring find out in a bunker some decades(?) later. Timur doesn't know and never will.
Ironsbane - Felwinter said he could talk to Rasputin to the other Iron Lords, not sure if anyone privately connected the dots before/after he died. It's public information that Felwinter wanted SIVA to rebuild humanity.
Rise of Iron - crickets
Worthy - Ana doesn't know at first.
The Tyrant - Ana doesn't outright state that she knows, but she's smart, she had to have inferred it when the comms cut out. Not sure how many brain cells Young Wolf has rattling around in there so idk if they know, but Ana does.
Seraph - Ana knows. Based on her dialogue in More Than a Weapon IV: Speak to Ana Bray, I guess Young Wolf didn't figure it out.

Here's where it gets murky. She convinced Saladin to get Felspring's shell, but it doesn't say if she told him why. Did she tell him about Felwinter? Did she tell the Vanguard? Osiris? Eris? Anyone else of importance? Or did it stay a secret between us, her, and Rasputin?

[ember storm]

story of undertale

[dim minnow]

God is a term used very loosely in Destiny

[lapis thistle]

Yes

Oryx was called a god

Also The witness is called a god

[dim minnow]

The term is not really a gauge of power

[lapis thistle]

Callus was a god emperor

[trim grotto]

Just a regular Emperor

[dim minnow]

It's more so a gauge of how revered that individual is which does correlate to a large amount of power

[lapis thistle]

By all meanings we as guardian can call ourselves as God

[dim minnow]

But the power of these "gods" does vary

[lapis thistle]

Ye but I am pretty sure that in the leviathan raid he was called a god but o could be mistaken

[dim minnow]

Calus considers himself one

[eager trout]

Calus is the guy who has an entire room just for a gold statue of himself. He's just a big narcissist.

What can a Servitor do?

[smoky rose]

Their main job is to supply ether to the fallen since no world other than Riis had easy access to it

[ember storm]

they have absurdly high melee damage for a robot with no limbs

[lapis thistle]

Ye you right

God I miss leviathan

[ember storm]

I love bringing up the cool icebreaker of Calus having Caiatl’s dog gutted like a fish and left to rot on her bed, even forcing the handmaiden who basically raised her to do the deed

[lapis thistle]

Sigma

Behavior

[exotic cloak]

I mean, I totally would do the same If I had that amount of treasures

[dim minnow]

What about Ana Bray being interested in watching her father in the final stages of DER before he literally tore his own exo body apart when she was around 11 with her grandfather who gave her a mint from his pocket right after.

[plain vessel]

I need to know about felwinter and Rasputin, I’ve seen and read of Ras being the father of felwinter, but how. Rasputin is a warmind, I don’t think he was getting down, is this a Clovis situation with the mind put into the warmind after death?

[jagged badge]

Felwinter is an AI created by Rasputin in order to be sent out into the world to learn alongside humanity as an Exo

To fit in, assimilate and then return to Rasputin with this social knowledge and experience

[plain vessel]

Wait wtf is DER again I forgor

[jagged badge]

Unfortunately, this “Siddhartha golem” perished in the Collapse, and then would later be resurrected by a Ghost

[plain vessel]

Wait so warlock felwinter is not the same

Almost like a title in a way, took the name?

[jagged badge]

How do you mean?

[plain vessel]

Like, Rasputin is the AI, felwinter is an Ai. How is Ai felwinter and Warlock Felwinter the same

Like Iron lord Felwinter

Wait he’s an exo

Just read that again sorry, thanks though

[jagged badge]

No, he’s an AI in an Exo body

[plain vessel]

Yeah, but still Exo

[jagged badge]

But not exactly the same as any other Exo who are actual minds of real people and not AI

[plain vessel]

Okay, thank you. Got it.

I was confused with the whole lord felwinter stuff

[jagged badge]

He is however AI that is deemed complex and sentient enough to be resurrected in the Light though

[plain vessel]

Wait yeah, since he has Felspring in seraph

Anyways thanks, GTG

[naive raptor]

Why is all the into the light stuff have a Lynx?

[gentle geyser]

Its a tiger

[naive raptor]

Respectfully, Nuh uh

[rare cargo]

I think there might be more to the poukas. I think they're more like the viel's version of the ghosts. It's stated in the hall of heros that the poukas "acclimated to humans" implying that they were here before humans came to Neptune. Additionally, they have powerful cognitive connections and are able to communicate extremely deeply through people's memories as well as being inherently connected with the dark cognitive power of strand.

Idk I'm probably wrong. I mostly just think the poukas are cute and I dislike that they were handwaved away as "ai butterflies" by so many people because they seem a bit more interesting than that.

[jagged badge]

Poukas were invented by the Neomuni. They’re made with that Quicksilver nanotech

However, they’ve definitely got some sorta degree of sentience in that they can be considered wild, domesticated or even feral iirc

[chrome fog]

Eris already shared her’s but here’s my explanation
#📚lore-discussion message

[rare cargo]

Where is that stated? I know the two things have similar aesthetics and the lore page indicates a connection but like.

[rare cargo]

Well we know the exo stranger's pouka brought her to tears when it communicated with her as well as gave her the safest way to teach people stasis. Also, just a small connection I noticed but pouka is Irish for Ghost...

Again, could easily be wrong, but I don't think the poukas were made by the neomuni (additionally they outright state that the tech in quicksilver is beyond Neptune's tech so by that logic so are the poukas) and I think that they are way smarter than we think

[gentle geyser]

Look at the logo when its not just an outline, a different emblem confirms its a tiger

It also makes much more sense considering the whole brave theming and it being around shaxx

[trim grotto]

I don't recall anything staring that Quicksilver, a gun implied to be used by a Cloudstrider, is beyond the tech of Neomuna. Perhaps you're thinking of Elsie stating that the tech is more advanced than she's seen before - however, she didn't know Neomuna existed at the time.

[dim minnow]

I find it funny how Shaxx's lair is in the Tower's holliday decoration storage garage

you can't say it's something he built recently either

since you can see the Tiger head insignia painted on the wall in numerous spots

[exotic cloak]

Nuh uh, Iberian Lynx

[dim minnow]

now you know how I feel when people say the Hunter Monster set from the FotL votes is Godzilla when it ain't

[trim grotto]

The consistent themes and naming and concepts of Bungie content would suggest tiger, despite the physical similarities.

It also hardly matters either way.

[exotic cloak]

As a Spaniard I have a moral obligation to emphasize this.

Anyway you right but if that's the case the designer was not on it because damn that's a lynx

[gentle geyser]

Its a white tiger

The issue is that there only like, one example of it in color

And its an emblem that you need a code for

[chrome fog]

Lynx

Ears too big

Also don’t point up like that on a Tiger

[gentle geyser]

Sadly said emblem uses the word tiger

[chrome fog]

Womp womp

[gentle geyser]

So it is a tiger

I don’t agree with it, but it is what it is

[rare cargo]

It's stated that is beyond golden age but that's just about it. Irregardless, saying that the pouki are created by the neomuni simply because they have a silvery color to them similar to the quicksilver gun isn't the best argument to say that pouki aren't something deeper than just ai butterfly.

[exotic cloak]

Yeah, the designer was not on it

That or they were a Spaniard infiltrated

[trim grotto]

I understand. They do have a connection to Darkness, despite their biological factor, and I've been enjoying pondering your theory. Perhaps they were created lifeforms by early Neomuni such as the Ishtar scientists, using the Veil as some manner of catalyst.

I'll go back over what we know when I make it home.

[weak prawn]

do we still have immaru or did he slip away from the tower?

[dim minnow]

he's still with us

[exotic cloak]

Bro is chillin around, probably annoying someone

[ember storm]

he’s got more freedoms than being stuck with Eris Morn 24/7 but that’s basically it, he’s not allowed to just leave whenever

[eager trout]

To be fair, it would probably hurt more to be hit by a pseudo-wrecking ball than just being punched

[gentle geyser]

Thats not how physics work tho

[eager trout]

The irony of treasure-hoarding rulers is that they could spend their treasure in whatever they wanted but since they're the rules they could just get anything for free.

[eager trout]

Servitors can levitate through unspecified means; physics are the least of their concerns.

[gentle geyser]

They levitate in the same way most stuff does, anti grav tech, we literally have that tech for our sparrows

Like thats the easiest thing to explain from them

[eager trout]

Force field beam seems easier

[gentle geyser]

Then floating tech, that we also have

[eager trout]

Anyway

Spider is Jabba the Hutt

[gentle geyser]

Only in appearance

[eager trout]

Technically, there is nothing against the possibility that Futurama takes place during the Golden Age.

[gentle geyser]

It 100% doesn’t

[tranquil gorge]

wait like

"the witness shows us what it thinks we want" plays over this scene in the trailer

doesn't that goop look suspiciously like the superblack goop?

[smoky rose]

Zavala doesn't see that black wall

[tranquil gorge]

like in the cutscene when you unlock superblack it climbs on you in a similar way

is the superblack goop bait the witness planted perhaps? it feels like a strangely consistent parallel

[gentle geyser]

Nah not related

[eager trout]

I just realized this matches what we saw in the first Final Shape trailer (the Titan being trapped by black goop)

[eager trout]

If anything, that was Bungie testing the animation to use it in The Final Shape.

[tranquil gorge]

feels like the witness baited us with fashion

[gentle geyser]

Yea baiting out the weak

[tranquil gorge]

you hear that #👗destiny-fashion ?

weak

[eager trout]

Superblack subclass when

[past glen]

ight so we lost the hunters and a few warlocks to the witness

[gentle geyser]

Titans will save the day

[eager trout]

Titans will punch every mind out of the Witness one by one.

[trim grotto]

[shadow crypt]

Why did we kill a bunch of ahamkaras?

In the great hunt specifically or whatever it’s called

[dim minnow]

the powers of Ahamakra were too dangerous to have around

whether it be Ahamkara causing mischief or people being stupid and trying to make deals with them

[shadow crypt]

What can they do besides grant “wishes”?

[eager trout]

Is it possible for someone to retain their memories if they're revived by a Ghost immediately after their death?

How long do Eliksni live? At what age are they considered young adults?
What can Splicers do?

[tranquil gorge]

wishes are absolute insanity what are you talking about?

[shadow crypt]

Wdym?

[analog torrent]

No, Shinobu is a notable example of this. She was rezzed minutes after her death and still had nothing

[tranquil gorge]

they dominate the objective universe with the subjective will, literally shaping reality with their will alone to grant wishes

[analog torrent]

You know the Wish spell in dnd and reality benders in scp

[tranquil gorge]

that is itself both massively valuable and dangerous

when they grant a wish they shape the fabric of reality with their subjective will

[raw hazel]

||nerds||

[half vine]

About to start lightfall Champaign and I know very little about the lore beyond the basics

Have played through witch queen tho. Anyone wanna summarize what I should know

[candid inlet]

xovenetia (ID 516552086205235230)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
Destiny recap made by Dovadah

Destiny 1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y1: <#📚lore-discussion message>

D2Y2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

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D2Y3 Part 2: <#📚lore-discussion message>

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Command triggered by hallybo. Message link from · May 30, 2024, 9:19 AM

[vestal summit]

Honestly if I was a hive id be pissed off with this militaristic hierarchy full of nepotism. Can you imagine being a knight or a wizard in the moon, you're about to be promoted to ascendant hive but Jim comes and say "Hey Jerry, I know you were on your way to a promotion but Crota, Son of Oryx had to be relocated from the court of Oryx and he was transfered to Lua, so he's your new boss." That fucking sucks! Crota doesn't even have a real job title! His job title literally is his relationship with his father, he didn't achieve jack shit for this, not even Oryx knew what position in the military to give him so he just fucking created a new one.

[chrome fog]

Servitor ball is just big looong arm

[gentle geyser]

Woah

[chrome fog]

They’d only be recognized if they proved they could more effectively kill better and more efficiently than supposedly the rest of the brood

[hollow hinge]

Have a feeling this is a bit but to answer seriously, Crota is not a nepo baby at all

[empty fern]

Me when
Me when the great disaster

Why is there slow mode, @calm granite Sir Gluten. I request you of something

[calm granite]

Cause there's rampant leaks and we wanna try to stop the bleed

[empty fern]

Damn

(Also I’m keeping that as your name now)

[dim minnow]

huh

[empty fern]

Yea congrats on another pin

[dim minnow]

looks like I've made up for getting started on revamping the Lore book page guide and then flat-out abandoning it

truth be told, I doubt anyone would have used it anyways

most of them are unobtainable now

[empty fern]

F (I have no idea what you talking about)

[dim minnow]

there was a google spreadsheet that acted as a guide on how to unlock all lore book pages that was in the server's lore resources

[empty fern]

Ohh

[dim minnow]

after I think the first Turkish attack on our soil, I decided to update it

I made it pretty far updating it up to at least Seraph

then I just abandoned it

[red comet]

Just realised all the way back in season of the seraph we seen the typhon imperiator

[empty fern]

We did?

[red comet]

Yeah

[empty fern]

Show

[red comet]

https://youtu.be/xkYUg0bVc-0?si=CnQRsazkfz6Pus2o

Go to 4:46

You can actually see the typhon imperiator amongst the dark fleet

[little gorge]

yeah

[red comet]

Never noticed that icl that’s mad

[little gorge]

i remember people talking about it back then

it wasn't a reveal or anything we'd seen it in way too many trailers by then

[red comet]

I like to look back In old theory discussions and giggle about how wrong they were