📚lore-discussion

[ember storm]

https://tenor.com/view/the-witness-destiny-2-destiny-2-lightfall-lightfall-destiny-gif-1004067941303274717

not good looking

[fast tapir]

smoky fella

[empty fern]

It’s more like, tumor under your skin

Or that one parasite

The worms

[dusty jolt]

Bet that man is high at some points

[fast tapir]

whar

[ember storm]

like I think mayor hancock from fallout 4 is cool but he looks like this

not attractive

[dusty jolt]

Can't wait to see the gun knowing I'm not going to get it

My rng is so trash

[fast tapir]

the witness looks automatically cool because its not another hive or cabal villain

or fallen

forgot about them

[ember storm]

I want the witness’ final form to be a weird mound split between pulling itself apart and trying to come back together

[fast tapir]

plus didn't it like shapeshift when it got angy at the fat guy

or is that a misconception

[ember storm]

we’re not shown

also “the fat guy”

[fast tapir]

so its just theory?

[ember storm]

you use the word theory loosely

[fast tapir]

wdym

[ember storm]

There’s not really anything to theorize on

[fast tapir]

ah

you're right

but if it does thats gonna be cool!!!

[fast tapir]

this also sounds cool as hell wtf

[chrome fog]

Not really, it remained the same form, the only different thing is the fractured glass effect when it appears before Calus

[ember storm]

the witness was just a very hands-on life coach helping Calus get over his reliance on royal wine

[fast tapir]

i would like to try his wine

i wonder how the quality of it is

surely its top tier

[dusty jolt]

Same

[chrome fog]

This is the same guy that curated a living scarf that voids its bowels on you

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/witness-progress-destiny2-destiny-calus-gif-1085382185888366649

[ember storm]

My Witness…
Poggers?

[velvet flax]

I actually cant take it seriously in the finger to finger pose its in

it looks so weird

[south ore]

any lore hints toward the character reveal in the final shapes teaser from a while back? (majority of u prolly know who i jus dont wanna spoil it for the ppl that haven't seen it)

[simple leaf]

I don’t get it how is cayde back in the final shape can someone explain if you know

[velvet flax]

Nothing official but the general theory as far as I am aware is that Crow accidentally wished to Riven during Season of the Wish that he wishes he had the opportunity to apologise to Cayde

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/unforeseen-consequences

It says Mara but I believe its Riven pretending to be Mara again like what she did in Forsaken

[simple leaf]

Hmmm

Interesting

[velvet flax]

Also the title being 'Unforeseen Consequences'

[velvet flax]

Especially since she invokes the Anthem Anatheme with the 'O [subject] mine' and is described as an illusion fading

[outer dragon]

That is Banshee's appartment

We got Leviathan's Breath from there after the quest in Season of the Hunt(?)

Wow
I think my Wifi had messed with me

[chrome fog]

There's also the exotic ship for Deep's vendor showing what happens when someone goes through the portal being named "Akashic Revelation", insinuating that beyond that portal is a weird repository space of everything. Paired with the description that it is filled with Light and Darkness and Cayde's mouth lights being blue instead of their usual yellow, and that's how we get the original theory that, Cayde in Final Shape is some weird Memory thing like from Haunted (Darkness) also given a reconstruction of his physical form (Light)

This might be the caveat that Crow's indirect wish for Cayde's return, in that he literally cannot exist outside of the Pale Heart or whatever that place is.

[jagged badge]

Leviathan’s Breath is a Shadowkeep exotic

Shadowkeep era, I mean

[ember storm]

theming and catalyst is where people get confused

it was just dropped during undying

[jagged badge]

I hope someone picked it back up again

[outer dragon]

I'm a ding dong

I do like the futuristic ornament for it

Use it a bunch

[crystal zinc]

if a guardian dies of old age can their ghost res them

[trim grotto]

We have no evidence of Guardians ageing.

Nor even the Lightless, for that matter

[eager trout]

To be fair, not many last long enough to age

[gentle geyser]

Thats not true

Theres like what, thousands of guardians if not much more

Certainly a chunk of them have been around for a long while

[calm stratus]

Bro if Cayde is coming back, ima cry 🥲

[gentle geyser]

Caydes coming back but hes not really alive again

[calm stratus]

As long as he’s back 🙏 was so sad to find out he died after moving from D1 to D2

[gentle geyser]

Our cayde, hes not coming back, hes gone, the cayde that we see in all the trailers and will most likely be the vendor for the pale heart is most likely a construct of cayde, brought back through multiple methods, hes most likely confined to the traveler permanently

[calm stratus]

Like how the ahamkara was revived? Not actually alive but like a memory of sorts??

[gentle geyser]

Minor spoilers but it was talked in chat a while ago today I think so its fine but
Crow was tricked into wishing cayde back this season, not only that, but we already know the traveler uses our memories to form the environment

[trim grotto]

The interior of the Traveler is fully formed of memories. It's reasonable to say he's constructed of memory too, but the difference is fairly moot if he's sentient, which he seems to be.

So while it's possible he cannot leave, he is essentially the same Cayde, personality wise.

[chrome fog]

HUH (new trailer)
|| https://youtu.be/vNh1KBRluC0?si=MTI--1T7UfMkTHW-||

[calm stratus]

Hmm then I think he’s most likely a sentient memory then

[gentle geyser]

I think the sentience is due to wish magic

[gentle geyser]

Brand new?

[trim grotto]

Wish Magic is mixed in there somewhere, yes. At the very least, it's why Cayde specifically returned over anyone else.

[chrome fog]

23 minutes ago

[eager trout]

I love how Immaru basically has the Hive Ghost equivalent of a beard

[trim grotto]

I... what?

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[chrome fog]

[eager trout]

The four long spikes around his eye

[chrome fog]

[gentle geyser]

Will watch when I get off work, ping me if there’s anything cool or relevant

[trim grotto]

[eager trout]

They look like an old wizard's beard

[calm stratus]

Maybe he could, not really sure how it works but the laser the traveler used against the witness and made a tree might suggest that it can do the same for cayde

[trim grotto]

Also possible
We can't say for sure until we get there

[raw hazel]

That's just his shell

[calm stratus]

Keeping my hopes up 🙏

[chrome fog]

With the new trailer that just released, I’m wondering if inside the Traveler serves both as an Akashic Record as alluded to in that exotic ship from the Season of the Deep vendor and an afterlife

[gentle geyser]

Cayde is gone, I think we all need to accept it, pretty sure cayde being back is not only to end the saga with him here but also to pass the torch to crow

[calm stratus]

I have no clue what that is 😭

[eager trout]

Yeah, but it looks like it was made to make him look like he has a beard.

[trim grotto]

To be honest, I don't see it

[calm stratus]

Possibly but imagine the popularity if cayde returns

[eager trout]

He already sounds like a wizard

[raw hazel]

If he didn't have the exact same spike going upwards, then maybe I could see it

[trim grotto]

He sounds like a Southern redneck trucker

[gentle geyser]

We need to accept that hes gone

[trim grotto]

I think you should watch the trailer before discussing this

[gentle geyser]

We get him for one more dlc and a vendor

[calm stratus]

Maybe it’s a trick 🙏 they’ve been milking caydes death just to bring him back and surprise everyone

[eager trout]

Focus on the one that goes down. Obviously he's going to have the same thing going upwards because Ghosts are symmetrical.

[calm stratus]

I don’t think he’s returning to the tower, like he’s literally back for good, but we’ll have some sort of version of him like a vendor as you say

[chrome fog]

It’s a somewhat niche trope in gaming found a lot in like, Japanese media, which is ironic because it’s origins is a Western pseudo religion; the Akashic Records act as a record of all that has, is, and will happen and exist, and it is commonly a McGuffin for stories with a villain wanting to obtain ultimate power and reshape reality to their will. The exotic ship “Akashic Revelation” from Deep hints at this somewhat, where the Titan Joxer goes through the portal and glimpses not only his pre-Lightbearer life but also his very imminent death as he realizes the screaming he’s hearing is his own and his voice starts to catch up to it

[calm stratus]

Typically locked behind a dlc

[raw hazel]

I think you’re the only one that see it

[chrome fog]

Please. Stop. With the nonsensical theories.

[eager trout]

Other Hive Ghosts have much shorter spikes, so in comparison Immaru looks like he has a beard.

[raw hazel]

Okay

[eager trout]

It's not a theory, just an observation.

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-stephen-colbert-colbert-ugh-frustrated-gif-4616223

It’s nonsense

Regardless

What, does having extra spikes count as a Ghost being extra hairy?

[calm stratus]

It’s gonna take me a lot of takes to fully grasp this 💀

[chrome fog]

What about the class animal shells? Are the ghosts that wear them basically nude?

No

Because that’s a stupid assumption

[gentle geyser]

Reminds me of the harpy ghost tweet

[calm stratus]

I love immarus VA

[chrome fog]

The new trailer feels super vindicating

[calm stratus]

I find it cool that a ghost has such a big personality he’s like a general

[calm stratus]

Wdym

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

Related to that Akashic Record thing

[eager trout]

The design team probably wanted him to look older than the other Hive Ghosts (since he's the first), so they gave him a "beard" in a way that didn't look too much like a human beard and still fit with the Hive aesthetic.

[calm stratus]

Ahh

[chrome fog]

ITS NOTHING
HE JUST HAS FANCY BITS
NONE OF THAT SHOULD DIRECTLY TRANSLATE TO HUMAN PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS

Please Eevee, it’s getting ridiculous

[eager trout]

Look at Immaru and Fynch side by side and tell me Immaru doesn't look older

[chrome fog]

THEY LOOK LIKE GHOSTS

BECAUSE GUESS WHAT

ALL GHOSTS ARE THE SAME AGE BECAUSE THEY WERE CREATED AG THE SAME TIME

[eager trout]

I mean, I just said Immaru looks like he has a beard, you're the one getting angry.

[gentle geyser]

I think youve lost it

They didn’t make him look older they just made him look different because he’s technically an important character

[eager trout]

I said he looks older

[chrome fog]

It’s nothing

It’s nothing

Literally you are grasping at straws please stop it is driving me up a wall and onto the ceiling

[calm stratus]

I’m pretty sure that’s just for looks

Fynch is a regular hive ghost while immaru is much more significant

[chrome fog]

Considering he’s Savathun’s ghost, it would make sense he has a distinctive feature to denote him from the rest

[calm stratus]

Yh

Otherwise it’d be like having savathun and xivu just look like oryx

[eager trout]

That doesn't mean the distinctive feature doesn't look like a beard

[calm stratus]

It doesn’t have any beard characteristics though

[chrome fog]

https://tenor.com/view/stephen-curry-oh-no-sad-not-happy-face-palm-gif-13719432

[calm stratus]

It’s a spike

[chrome fog]

It’s just some fuckin spikes

[calm stratus]

With that logic you could say the spikes on his sides are meant to be his ears 💀

[chrome fog]

What would the makeshift shell’s characterstics be

[eager trout]

Kinda like this type of beard

[chrome fog]

Moving on

[calm stratus]

Bro said sensei wu

[eager trout]

Immaru is like Saruman

Of course, I don't know enough about either of them to actually know

[chrome fog]

It’s a stupid theory. Like the one of the cat killing ghosts for the Nine.

[eager trout]

Except that this one wasn't a theory, just an observation

[chrome fog]

Whatever

Move on

[empty fern]

Witness changed its face

Proof? It’s nose is slightly different

[modern lodge]

Nexus how many times a week do you change your profile

[empty fern]

A week? Atleast 2 months

[calm stratus]

I wonder what type of plot armour we’ll be given to kill the witness

[empty fern]

We getting gardener plot armor

[eager trout]

Prismatic

[calm stratus]

We’re cooked prismatic won’t do a thing 😭

[empty fern]

Skissue

[calm stratus]

I get it’s for the story but what’s stopping the witness from just shattering reality, appearing in the last city and just cutting all our ghosts along with us

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/hand-reach-cayde-6-cayde-cayde-6-witness-gif-15339495824025125950

[empty fern]

Gameplay issues

[shadow crypt]

What is the Tree of Silver Wings?

[eager trout]

There are three types of Ghost shells:
-Repaints
-Gadgets with additional functions
-Hats

[calm stratus]

Error code: baboon

[empty fern]

The witness gets babooned duh

[eager trout]

Arrogance

[calm stratus]

We’ll kill it with the architects

[chrome fog]

Paracausality itself was made to circumvent the deterministic probability of the universe as it is, which is supported by the mental element that is vital to control of Light and Darkness. And now we are entering a space chock full of it; when the climax comes, it will be a contest of conviction and fortitude between the Witness and us, with power that favors those most devoted to their cause

[calm stratus]

I wouldn’t rlly call the witness arrogant, at least what I’ve seen from it so far

[eager trout]

From what we know, yes

[chrome fog]

Reading into its story, it really is arrogance

Quite literally placing the responsibility of delegating a meaning to life to others on its own shoulders is pretty arrogant

[calm stratus]

I guess

[chrome fog]

Just because “wah wah, Traveler/Gardener didn’t give us a purpose for existence and remained silent so it’s being a meanie”

[calm stratus]

I might just be mixing up arrogance with boastfulness

[calm stratus]

Justified 🙂‍↕️🤚

[chrome fog]

Fair, it’s not outright boastful and is more subtle in suggesting it knows best for everyone else

[calm stratus]

Yeah that sums it up I think

[chrome fog]

Nah, Guardians make their Own Fate. Carpe Diem - Seize the Day - and make your own purpose in life

[eager trout]

Too many people nowadays are like the Witness.

[chrome fog]

(I love somewhat inconsequential phrases being really key to the meaning of a story after a deeper glance)

[calm stratus]

Booo take comfort in the darkness it will give you purpose 😎

[eager trout]

Make Your Own Destiny

[shadow crypt]

Who is Praedyth?

[eager trout]

Bro thinks he's a Sith

[gentle geyser]

You mean the witness is like everyone else

[calm stratus]

From what I can remember he’s someone who went into the vault of glass, I think he drank radiolarian fluid and became a vex

[chrome fog]

GRAAAAH WE OPTIMISTIC IN THIS BITCH, TAKE YO DOOM AND GLOOM ASS BACK TO THE MEDIA SCROLL (jk but I couldn’t help it)

[calm stratus]

This is NOT Star Wars ❌

[calm stratus]

💀💀💀

[empty fern]

Someone part of the early vog fireteams.

[eager trout]

I mean, yeah, same thing.

[empty fern]

He was trapped in the Gorgons maze area for a while

(We find him later)

[calm stratus]

I remember someone on Reddit summarised light and darkness in destiny so perfectly

[eager trout]

Player or character?

[calm stratus]

He’s just like me

[empty fern]

Character

Half the team got wiped from existence and the other half went to die some other ways

[chrome fog]

Part of one of the first Vault of Glass raid teams - there is evidence that there were more than just the one he was in; he had drank some Radiolaria in an effort to quench his thirst but realized that it began to convert him into Vex - some of his last words warns us of this. He also forged his light into the Aegis relic in the VoG raid, in the hopes that the next Guardians to pass through will be able to use it to overcome the oracles

[calm stratus]

Bro was thirsty 😭

[shadow crypt]

Is he still alive or in a time loop?

[empty fern]

?
Wasn’t that kabr?

[eager trout]

Why would he drink the weird glowy liquid-

[chrome fog]

Wait nvm I got them wrong, that was Kabr

[calm stratus]

I wonder if we fought praedyth before

[empty fern]

It’s weird, we find his skeleton in d1, but there’s rumors of a clone

[empty fern]

He’s

A guardian,
An ally

[shadow crypt]

[calm stratus]

I was mixing him up with kabr too

[shadow crypt]

Didn’t the gargons do something to him

The strong vex harpys

[chrome fog]

Praedyth was the Praxic/Hidden Agent, right? And Ikora somehow comes across some papers mentioning him but does not remember his existence, to which she sends us on the VoG raid to discover what happened

[empty fern]

Yea that should be it

[calm stratus]

He got hit with gorgons gaze

[chrome fog]

And Pahanin was the Hunter that escaped with the lmg he built an AI into to keep him company while he navigated his way out of the VoG, I believe he got killed by Dredgen Yor but I could be wrong

[empty fern]

Sweet advice?

Super good advice*

[chrome fog]

Neat I was worried I misremembered the name

[empty fern]

One died to a dredgen
One was kabr aegis
One was Gorgons prison
Yea that should be all of them

Wait

No no I’m right

[eager trout]

New engram just dropped https://youtu.be/eGkV_k8IcQ0?si=fcLBaC8yY3_kOpe3

[trim grotto]

All that we know of

Who knows how many may have been fully erased from time

dun dun duuuuuun

[shadow crypt]

What is the Tree of Silver Wings?

[gentle geyser]

Dcv be like

[trim grotto]

I see how it is

My answer four days ago isn't good enough
You're making a Maelman cry

[shadow crypt]

No no no

Im sorry

[trim grotto]

Boo hoo hoo

That's right I've got even more crying emojis

[shadow crypt]

I do have a question tho

What’s going on with Praedyth

[trim grotto]

Oh now that's a weird topic
Because he's dead*

[shadow crypt]

Hmm

I thought he got like stuck in time?

[trim grotto]

We actually found his corpse in D1

[shadow crypt]

Something around the lines of that

[trim grotto]

Ye
So, he is simultaneously dead, but was also trapped in the Vex network of the Vault of Glass

[sharp osprey]

Hive god eris is a baller

[trim grotto]

We think that, during the events of Aspect, he freed himself along with the 227, but it's a bit difficult to parse that lorebook.

If he is freed, then he now should be in the Black Garden network with the 227.

[shadow crypt]

What’s the 227?

227 versions of himself?

stuck in the vex network

[trim grotto]

Back in the Golden Age, Maya Sundaresh, Chioma Esi, and her Ishtar team were simulated 227 times by a Vex unit.

They were eventually freed by Rasputin, and set out to explore the Vex Network.

You may have heard the line about MSund12 during that one Nessus Strike

We believe it may have been the 12th Maya Sundaresh simulation

[shadow crypt]

Inverted spire I think?

That may be the strike

[trim grotto]

That's the one

[shadow crypt]

I remember some dialogue

[shadow crypt]

Oh wow

That does make sense

[shadow crypt]

Didn’t he like drink vex milk?

And something happened after

[trim grotto]

That'd be Kabr, the Legionless
His fireteam member

[shadow crypt]

Ohh

The titan that formed the shield

Aegis

[trim grotto]

Indeed

Anywho I'm going back to work

[shadow crypt]

Did any of the OG fireteam escape the vault?

Ah ok

[trim grotto]

[trim grotto]

Pahanin, the Hunter.

[candid inlet]

gestaltzerfall2343 (ID 422866711344185345)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
And Pahanin was the Hunter that escaped with the lmg he built an AI into to keep him company while he navigated his way out of the VoG, I believe he got killed by Dredgen Yor but I could be wrong

Command triggered by maelstronnar. Message link from · Apr 23, 2024, 1:18 AM

[trim grotto]

Which they explained just here an hour ago

Poor Pahanin
Escaped just to die to Dredgen Yor

[shadow crypt]

Dredgen Yor was the rougue guardian right?

Rogue*

Ok that’s it for now

I will leave you be

[chrome fog]

Yea, Mae even had a voice file explaining Yor’s story

Mae

I hate iOS keyboard

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

[gentle geyser]

Nitw jumpscare

[thorny scarab]

So we’re going to be fighting Savathun again?

[dim minnow]

I recall seeing Lucent Brood in the Pale Heart during the TFS reveal

made me wonder what she has to do with it

[shadow crypt]

New trailer out

Any thoughts?

[shadow warren]

Looks cool

Somber cayde is a neat twist

I could be wrong, I felt like he was seeing memories of his life pre-ressurection

I wasn’t sure if he was actually talking to us or not when he said “I kept thinking I’d see you”

Butchered that quote

[thorny scarab]

That’s (I think) what happened to joxer

[shadow crypt]

Maybe the traveler has the power to do that?

[trim grotto]

Probably
She still isn't our ally

[shadow crypt]

She was in the trailer

[trim grotto]

True! And then horrible eternal death!

[shadow warren]

Might make sense then

Could have been talking to ace

[thorny scarab]

So the vanguard and her have a mutual agreement not to fight?

[shadow warren]

If ace was real

[thorny scarab]

Don’t remind me

Poor joxer

[trim grotto]

Currently, yes
She gave us Immaru as a uh

Whatever the word is

[thorny scarab]

Insurance?

[dim minnow]

collateral

[trim grotto]

I think Ace was real but Cayde was making up what Ace meant to him

If that makes sense

He applied meaning to these dead names on his journal

[thorny scarab]

So like… why would she suddenly start attacking us

[trim grotto]

Who knows
Maybe Immaru escapes

Maybe she doesn't actually attack us at all

[thorny scarab]

Also, last time we encountered the lucent brood, they weren’t doing savathun’s bidding, they were resurrecting oryx

[trim grotto]

That was her bidding

[thorny scarab]

Unless that was secretly her plan

[trim grotto]

Via Immaru

[thorny scarab]

Fuck me

[trim grotto]

Remember the two truths two lies? "The Taken King will rise again."

Well he nearly did

[thorny scarab]

So now those are outdated?

[shadow crypt]

Whos Joxer?

[past glen]

Sav caital and mithrax fighting

Interesting

[trim grotto]

Well not quite
It was planned to be a truth, you see?

[thorny scarab]

The guardian the vanguard tried to send through the traveler hole in season of the deep

[dim minnow]

Guardian who used to work for Drifter

[past glen]

WAIT JOXER DIED?

Nooooo

[dim minnow]

he ahd a falling out after an incident that left three Guardians dead

[thorny scarab]

Damn it, Savathun makes me mad

[thorny scarab]

Yeah, he had like one of the most brutal deaths in the lore that I personally know of

[dim minnow]

and the guy who was killed by the Witness at the start of Lightfall was Reed-7

[thorny scarab]

WHY ARE THEY KILLING OFF ALL THE GREAT SIDE CHARACTERS

[past glen]

Im gonna turn the witness into a gun

[shadow crypt]

Reeds Regret!

[thorny scarab]

And yet they still won’t kill off Eramis

[past glen]

Well she left

[thorny scarab]

And Kadi - 69

[thorny scarab]

WE DONT EVEN GET TO SEE HER DIE THEN?!

Fuck me, again!

[dim minnow]

Eramis watching in horror as Guardians use her fueling depot as a Crucible map while she's trying to leave Sol

[thorny scarab]

That’s her ship?

And we… have no problem with her going elsewhere?

[dim minnow]

I believe Bungie devs said that when showing off the new map

[thorny scarab]

Ah

[dim minnow]

well she's no longer really wanting to be a threat

and we have bigger problems

[thorny scarab]

Yeah, but she did a bunch of evil shit

She’s got answering to do

[past glen]

And feels bad

She’s just mentally done

[thorny scarab]

I feel the same about her

[past glen]

All her friends got killed by us and risen as scorn

[dim minnow]

Praksis in Seraph Shield
maybe Kridis in Onslaught wave 50

[thorny scarab]

All of her lieutenants

[dim minnow]

so far we haven't seen Phylaks and Atraks

[thorny scarab]

As in the people she used to fight us

[past glen]

I never wanna see atraks again

[thorny scarab]

If they died, then that’s fair game

[past glen]

Not after day 1 dsc

[thorny scarab]

I have yet to whoop that man’s ass

Maybe someday

[past glen]

Bro has not got a single ounce of sympathy for her crew lol

Think about it like this

She saved mithrax’s ass

[dim minnow]

I want to see Atraks' pre-exo model be used for something

[past glen]

Tho we’re gonna hold her tryna shoot the traveler down against her

[thorny scarab]

Only AFTER a campaign and 2 seasons of her being an asshole

[dim minnow]

such a cool Dusk-inspired look and we only saw it in 2-3 cutscenes

[thorny scarab]

And trying to blow up the traveler

[past glen]

Which from her perspective is reasonable given what she went thru

[thorny scarab]

Causing us to lose rasputin

[past glen]

House salvation was tryna give the eliksni a new home

The traveler wont be overlooked tho

[thorny scarab]

ALSO HOLD ON

[past glen]

But you can tell she was already doubting herself

[thorny scarab]

@dim minnow super duper smart person

And mr Astro Suoer Koala

[shadow crypt]

Is destinypedia reliable?

[dim minnow]

huh?

[dim minnow]

eh

[thorny scarab]

Why did The Witness let Eramis try to blow up the traveler if they needed it for the final shape

[past glen]

The witness wasnt there is my interpretation

[dim minnow]

it does have Anthology-exclusive lore entries though

[past glen]

Like it was basically her seeing shit

[thorny scarab]

Blud can kill guardians and their ghosts with the wave of a fingie

And his pyramid ships were as close as Jupiter

He probably had the power to do something if needed, but didn’t.

[past glen]

The witness has no reason to let eramis shoot the traveler doen

Thats why i think it was basically her conscience telling her to do it

But that idea doesn’t account for the witness talking to her at the end

[dim minnow]

maybe Eramis was acting out of line

and the Witness let it slide since it got Rasputin out of the picture

[past glen]

Other possibility is i honestly dont think the warsats woulda done anything to the traveler

Unless it’s stated somewhere it wouldve and i forgot

[trim grotto]

Not particularly

[chrome fog]

But then that would retract the lesson she had been hesitant to accept until now, that she needs to leave behind her need for revenge and think of the future with her wife and kids

And also she didn’t really do that much evil compared to, like, Savathun. She perpetuated the docking system and forced rationing of Ether despite the promise and mid-developed rebuilding of their civilization before her entire command structure got eliminated by the Guardian, then being forced to follow the Witness’ demands both due to lack of control over Stasis and also to indulge her need for revenge against the Traveler, but like that’s it. She saved Mithrax and the prisoners from the explosion during Defiance and is now trying to return to her wife, even ignoring stray ships and preventing her current crew from ransacking them.

Like Savathun has literally done inhumane experiments both on her own brood and killed enough Guardians to create a shit ton of crystals of Light.

And she’s at a truce with us despite all of that

[vagrant bridge]

we also killed so many of her brood though

[vagrant bridge]

Lmfao real

[chrome fog]

If Eramis were to be punished for trying to do better wouldn’t that push her to continue attacking us? Wouldn’t that just reinforce her misconception of the Guardians and the Traveler being evil that they can’t just leave her alone?

[vagrant bridge]

Wait Savathun is trying to leave?

[chrome fog]

They kill a ton of their own brood, it’s not a cultural taboo in their society; it’s even a way of demonstrating their love, in allowing their loved ones to be the only ones to kill them

[chrome fog]

She’s just chilling somewhere we dunno

[vagrant bridge]

Also true

On the other hand, we got a whole lot more of them than they got of us

We stay winning

[vagrant bridge]

She's just taking a bath

[sharp osprey]

so were the race of people that eventually became the witness the first people to be blessed by the traveler?

[dim minnow]

possibly

[trim grotto]

First that we know of

[sharp osprey]

do we know what they're called?

[trim grotto]

They're referred to as Precursors, but no actual species name, no.

[sharp osprey]

is the Veil the Winnower?

[dim minnow]

well even though the Traveler is the Gardener and the Veil is the Darkness equivalent to the Traveler, it is debateable

I'm under the impression that the Winnower isn't real

[sharp osprey]

is it reasonable to make the prediction that the conclusion of the final shape will be the traveler and the veil being combined like what the precursors intended?

[trim grotto]

It's possible.

[sharp osprey]

hmm

after today's trailer i'm really excited for TFS narrative, it seems like we're getting back on track with the writing for sure

serious Cayde is best Cayde

[chrome fog]

I was gonna say the writing has been pretty on the rails for a while but I forgot how frustrating Nimbus’ voicing direction was handled in the English dub and how that plus the weird and stunted pacing of Lightfall made a really bad impression

[sharp osprey]

well lightfall in general was ehhhhhh, but its seasons seemed pretty good

like Hive God Eris went hard for example

[dim minnow]

English dub?

Destiny's original language is English

[chrome fog]

It’s still dubbed

[trim grotto]

well, no

that isn't what a dub is

[jagged badge]

Woah it Mael

[raw hazel]

Maelstinker-3 more like it

[analog torrent]

Cocyctus and Ghost Fragment: Dead Orbit was spooky cryptic shit about A-113, Bamberga has a similar spooky cryptic vibe but seems to be entirely unrelated. Destiny wiki says the RSS Amestris was killed by the Aphelion. It's associated with radiation and blue light. Is the Aphelion a Darkness creature we might meet in TFS?

[wheat flower]

The winnower is propoganda fed to is by the Witness

[trim grotto]

lies

prove it

[ember storm]

its easily provable

every time you enter a room this mysterious music plays

oh here it is now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqYPBOJ7Lk

see what i mean

[jagged badge]

Okay but that’s such a funky theme fr

[empty fern]

Y’all fuckin killed bionicle holy shit

[chrome fog]

Nah I was just eepy

[chrome fog]

Nexus it was 3am by that last message

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

Loooooook

[empty fern]

I don’t see it

[blazing wasp]

Man what a lovely day in the gift store, hey is that a shitty ford bronco?

[wheat flower]

What

[blazing wasp]

_ _

[chrome fog]

yyeeeeessssssss, the propaganda angle spreads

[blazing wasp]

I like how the game keeps picking both sides

Especially with the collectors edition

[eager trout]

A new update???

Oh right, Into the Light

[chrome fog]

It would be very compelling if the propagandized image of the Witness' ideals gained a life of its own and became an issue much later after our triumph over the Witness

[rapid bane]

So, this is more of a lore question..
I heard something about what the number on an exo's name really means.

Is is true that the number an Exo has is regarding the amount of times they have been reset?

(example : Ada-1)

[chrome fog]

How many times they have reset

[rapid bane]

Oh, interesting!
Was there any additional info about it? (I'm always interested in lore for games)

[chrome fog]

They need to be reset a variable amount of times depending on how well their mind adapts to their new exo body; a number of exos undergo a process known as Dissociative Exomind Rejection, in which their slowly become senile/insane and in general what the name suggests: their mind rejects their exo body

[rapid bane]

Wait so, Were the Exos originally human?

[chrome fog]

This is a helpful explanation
#📚lore-discussion message

[chrome fog]

Yep

[rapid bane]

Thank you!

I'll be reading this while I wait for D2 to load

[chrome fog]

In short, Exos were developed for a human immortality project of Golden Age scientist Clovis Bray, but unfortunately he discovered that the human consciousness does not like when it's transferred into a metal body and is unable to feel any human sensation

Clovis found this out with the first exo, his son Clovis II

Who tore himself apart whilst his daughter was watching with her grandpa, and whom the grandpa gave a piece of candy after experiencing that

And so, functions analogous to human processes are implemented into the Exo body - yes, yes, most if not all of them even the ones that break rule 3 in the server - to prevent their mind from experiencing lethal amounts of dysphoria

[jagged badge]

I think the more pressing issue with Clovis II was the billboard problem. DER was encountered later after the billboard problem iirc

[ember storm]

Clovis II suffered because he genetically altered him before he was born

as one does

[jagged badge]

I mean, yeah, but that’s not what I’m talking about

[empty fern]

Awoken>exo when

[eager trout]

What

[empty fern]

You want to be comfortable in a body that isn’t yours

Wonder if any of the fallen suffered from dysphoria

[jagged badge]

Only one Eliksni got an Exo body

And we saw how she dealt with it

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/taniks-taniks-bottom-text-destiny-destiny2-bottom-text-gif-24461643

Oh ew, antlers are clipping into the back

[chrome fog]

In fairness they have a greater expectation of limb-loss in their culture after the Long Drift and whilst Taniks is an extreme example, prosthetics seem to be commonplace

[empty fern]

Interesting

Wonder how atraks felt

https://tenor.com/view/aksis-archon-prime-awakening-introducing-entrance-gif-24113910

[raw hazel]

She was so real for that

[empty fern]

(What did atraks do again)

[jagged badge]

Cut off her corpse’s face

[chrome fog]

Ripped off the face of her old body, then Bakris made a mask of it

[jagged badge]

To demonstrate how it wasn’t really her anymore

[empty fern]

Huh

[jagged badge]

Just a mask anyone could wear

[empty fern]

Wasn’t that bakris?

[jagged badge]

And that it was Atraks-1’s current body that was truly her

[jagged badge]

Bakris was telling Atraks this

Guiding her

[empty fern]

Oh

[jagged badge]

Bakris was a normal Eliksni. We kill her during the campaign

[empty fern]

Poor bakris reduced to a lost sector boss

Side boss

[analog torrent]

...The most Human strategy... tend to cooperate, but do unto others as they do to you. Start nothing. But if you are hit, hit back hard. Hit back harder each time.

So you punish the other village for attacking. You counterattack. Unwilling to walk away from a war they've already spent blood on, the other village attacks for the next two years in a row. A cycle of war begins.

They are now trapped in an infinite war.

The only way out is a moment of grace. Cooperation, spontaneously and for no reason, after 20 years of war. Forgiveness without cause. Unilateral mercy. Declaring peace.

This is the value of forgetting. Forget they hurt you. Forget what's rational. Do what's right.

Now, if the other village takes advantage of your disarmament, you will look like a damn fool. But if the other side stops fighting too, both of you can go back to the maximum global good: 1,800 bushels of wholesome grain a year.

Imagine that those bushels of grain are peoples' lives, and you understand the urgency of grace. You feel the need to forget the past...

In other words,

Ikora Rey destroys FACTS AND LOGIC using FACTS AND LOGIC

I've read a lot of takes on why revenge is bad but The Hidden Dossier broke it down into the prisoner's dilemma and it goes hard as fuck

All of the weblore is top tier ngl
Remembrance, The Immolant 1 & 2, and this one

[eager trout]

That's...not why I said what

[analog torrent]

It's a rhetorical "you"

nvm I can't read

[empty fern]

[analog torrent]

Has Truth to Power/Savathun's motivations been deciphered yet

[chrome fog]

Savathun bring a lying asshole mostly, trust nothing in it except if somewhere else says the same thing

[analog torrent]

this slot gonna be empty forever fr

[ember storm]

What is there to fill in

She’s just farming imbaru

[analog torrent]

trying to summarize every lorebook as objectively as possible

[trim grotto]

Return to the Hidden Dossier and read Ikora conversation with Arach Jalaal

[analog torrent]

yeah I just read it
Wasn't sure if we've received updated info since then or not

because savathun is a tricky mf

[kindred trellis]

randal ‼️

[craggy agate]

chat can someone catch me up on something real quick

i stopped playing destiny after season of the haunted and i started again this season uh
what is xivu arath up to what's happened with her

[empty fern]

During season of the witch
We did some funky stuff with savathuns sword logic, used that magic to rip xivu from her thrown world (she can never return)

We took away her plain so now all we have to do is kill her once

[craggy agate]

oh wow

[chrome fog]

Eris does it by becoming a Hive God using Ahsa as her worm

It's dope

Also Dova one of your posts got shared in Ishtar

[empty fern]

Oh god

Is it the Petra list?

[trim grotto]

Thrown world

Yeet world

[eager trout]

Savathun is so untrustworthy that the only way of having her give us reliable information is by seeing her memories

[chrome fog]

Yes

That is the point

[chrome fog]

Nongo bongo
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/destiny-feats-thread.311141/post-90824256

[eager trout]

Btw, who does the Operation: Seraph's Shield space station belong to?

[trim grotto]

It's Braytech
So Clovis/Rasputin

[eager trout]

Who exactly is Rasputin?

[trim grotto]

Rasputin, the Warmind. The most powerful AI of the Golden Age, designed to predict threats to the solar system and protect it from them.

Anastasia Bray put in a lot of work to make him cultured, a bit more "human".

[chrome fog]

He sacrificed himself in Season of the Seraph to prevent Eramis from using the Warsats and empowering Xivu Arath

[eager trout]

Define "cultured"

Ok, so Rasputin is also called Red

[chrome fog]

And R

He was originally the life support system on the Ares-1 mission, that opening cutscene where three astronauts land in Mars and see the Traveler at the opening of D1

[chrome fog]

His submind, Siddhartha Golem, that was purpose built to integrate into human society and allow him to interact as a person with the people he was meant to protect got revived as Felwinter

Which transitively means Rasputin is essentially a person

[dim minnow]

huh?

[shadow crypt]

Is there religion in Destiny?

[dim minnow]

as in real-world religions?

[shadow crypt]

Yea

Or just in general

Just curious

[dim minnow]

I know Buddhism got referenced a bit in the Golden Age

[shadow crypt]

Ah ok

[chrome fog]

Considering it’s an alternate future for Earth, it’s certainly possible for religions to have sustained until the Age of Triumph, but there have also been a couple religious sects dedicated to worshiping the Traveler I think? Some stray D1 lore entry somewhere probably mentions it

[trim grotto]

He likes classical music and historical references and such.

[dim minnow]

ey what post were you talking about?

the one that got shared on Ishtar?

as in Ishtar.net?

[eager trout]

True culture

[chrome fog]

#📚lore-discussion message

And the Ishtar discord server

[dim minnow]

...

uh

who is this guy?

[crystal zinc]

i just did the savathuns spire thing

[chrome fog]

Came up in a discussion of the various domains of reality in Destiny after I shared this frankly insane tweet which was after someone shared a Reddit post that prompted them to suggest there be a Destiny FAQ of some sort
https://fxtwitter.com/flauzino_flz/status/1782098740280537344?s=46

[crystal zinc]

and eris morn turned into a hive

what happened to her

[trim grotto]

Pretty much all of his protocols are references to things like historical figures, moments, events, or mythology.
Seraphs, Dvalin Forge, Ikelos, uh... Siddhartha Golem, Nephele Stronghold, so on.

[chrome fog]

Wait I’m stupid
I’m so fucking stupid oh god

[trim grotto]

She's used a Hive Parasite Worm, a ritual connecting to Ahsa, and Hive magic, to shift her form and begin receiving Tribute.

[dim minnow]

she managed to gain enough power to rival Xivu Arath

[crystal zinc]

so what now

is she just a hive now

[dim minnow]

||with it, she chose to relinquish said power so she can exorcise Xivu Arath from her own Throne World||

[trim grotto]

No, as you'll see if you progress the seasonal campaign

Dova hush

[crystal zinc]

oki

wait a minute

how can eris breath on the moon

how can anything breath or live on the moon

[trim grotto]

Because it has a weak atmosphere ever since the Golden Age

Thanks Traveler

[crystal zinc]

oh

so what is the final shape

what does that mean

ik its a dlc

but what is it

is it like a weapon?

[trim grotto]

Immaru: The final shape, the way we think about it? It's the winner, the one who's so smart or strong that they beat everybody else. The final shape may not be the most interesting or best looking or whatever, but it's the one who makes it to the finish line, again and again. It's the best at what it does. The Witness' final shape isn't like that. It's just... flat. It's static. It's... a forced ending, like winning a game by turning it off. Forever. Ugh, gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[crystal zinc]

is immaru savathuns ghost?

[crystal zinc]

that made me more confused ngl

[ember storm]

it’s a concept many have tried to realize

there’s different interpretations

but it’s just a concept

it’s not real until someone (the witness) tries making it

the hive used the concept as the baseline for their religion, that being life in the universe has to prove it should exist

the vex also sort of embody that line of thinking, but it’s not intentional on their part

vex just do vex things because vex

[gentle geyser]

The witness is essentially ending existence

Changing it to fit its views

[crystal zinc]

ohh

so puccis universe reset

everything is a jojo reference

[gentle geyser]

Basically nobody wins if the witness wins

[trim grotto]

Yes

[trim grotto]

It's an end-state of the universe. It is a concept, and is different depending on what attempts to enact it.

[crystal zinc]

so pucci universe reset basically

[trim grotto]

I have no idea what that is.

[gentle geyser]

The final shape is dependent on the individual, it can technically have indefinite meanings, the witness is trying to enact its meaning of it

[dim minnow]

Italian Priest makes time accelerate until the Universe resets allowing everyone to know their own fate or something like that

but I'd say it is not like the Witness' Final Shape at all

also, did anyone see the new lore entry this week talking about the state of the Consensus finally?

about time this stuff got addressed

it seems like we'll see more of it post TFS

[final geyser]

i'm gonna be so disappointed if cayde doesn't see crow and instantly drop him

[gentle geyser]

Instant gold gun headshot

[final geyser]

cayde seeing crow's ghost and just
"...Ah"

[empty fern]

https://tenor.com/view/crow-chaperone-destiny2-crow-gif-27649485

[chrome fog]

I think he’d joke about it

[gentle geyser]

Wild to think we haven’t heard cayde make one new joke yet

[fast tapir]

maybe hes tired of joking..

[shadow crypt]

In lore can we wield multiple exotics at the same time?

[trim grotto]

Sure
Exotics aren't some esoteric class of item in lore, they're just shiny pieces of gear
I mean heck, Hard Light is produced on a manufacturing line
Cerbarus is literally a pile of junk that somehow fires bullets

[shadow crypt]

Oh wow

That’s cool

[spiral trellis]

Wassup zick

[empty fern]

Now thats interesting

Oh yea

What’s Borealis lore again

[trim grotto]

A cool scientific advancement from an unknown source (maybe Omolon, maybe Golden Age) that may or may not [REDACTED] if damaged

[tribal vault]

Is there anywhere I can read/ watch all the lore

[empty fern]

Ishtar collective site

If you want ALL the lore

But if you want mostly books then the d2 companion app

[trim grotto]

I would like to mention that there is ten years of lore for this game, spread across two games, many DLCs, books, items, lore tabs, visual storytelling, and more. You'd be better off finding a topic you're interested in and going from there.

That said...
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/
Ishtar has most of the written lore of Destiny. If you want videos, you might find it difficult to find an up to date, comprehensive video. Byf has one up to Shadowkeep which is over four hours long, and that both misses a lot of content, and is also years outdated.

[tribal vault]

Ight thanks

[trim grotto]

What I mean is, there's a lot of lore

[past glen]

Osiris wears sunbracers and lunafactions

[next bobcat]

I want to see a Byf vs Mael lore-off

[dim minnow]

no one else gonna talk about how Bungie is actually going to finally address the political side of the Last City Government?

we finally got a lore entry about people in the city admitting that the faction system was a dogshit idea

[trim grotto]

Is it 1v1 or do we organise a team

[next bobcat]

1v1

[trim grotto]

Do we get prep time or know what topics we're gonna be looking at

[next bobcat]

I’ll work with Bionicle to assemble questions, whoever answers first gets a point

[dim minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/geri-game-pixar-shorts-chess-gif-15967154

POV: You're watching Mael and Byf's lore-off

[next bobcat]

Good point - same person

[trim grotto]

prove it

[arctic iron]

ermm

u sound teh same

therefore

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

[exotic cloak]

Or some exotics that are pretty much regular equipment of our enemies

[next bobcat]

When i read Mael’s messages i hear them being spoken by byf

On the topic, @trim grotto I have 3 lore questions and one non-lore question

[exotic cloak]

There is a lore reason to weapons being one class only

Edge, or those weapons from Defiance

[blazing wasp]

Classes are already more or less schools of thought, and it doesn't really fit the vibe of a hunter to carry a giant heavy sword with you

It's probably more of a "don't wanna"

[exotic cloak]

In case of sword makes sense but is not like there are big difference between edges

but fair

[rich veldt]

(not everything does need a lore reason btw)

[exotic cloak]

I know but just three glaives being class locked because lol

[rich veldt]

no class specific weapons cause player retention

[trim grotto]

[empty fern]

Y’all ever think the lore community reads too much into lore compared to the devs?

[chrome fog]

Considering how Eramis came about and the proto-hive’s name being the Krill, yes

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

Then again we have writers like Seth who baller hard and go harder

[empty fern]

Is seth still hired?

[jagged badge]

Pretty sure he’s a contract worker, not a full time employee

Or something like that

[empty fern]

Neat

[empty fern]

Tavis post
(Now talk about lore related to void hunters)

[ember storm]

dead

[empty fern]

[chrome fog]

[keen obsidian]

Why do awoken look so sickly

[empty fern]

Space magic

[keen obsidian]

There skin is not normal color

[empty fern]

Again space magic

[jagged badge]

That’s just how they happened to be remade

They were human once

Caught between an explosion of Light and Dark

Mara Sov remade herself, and then remade the other Awoken

[empty fern]

And something about an apothecary

[jagged badge]

They lived in the Distributary, some sort of pocket plane where time passed differently

Eventually, Mara orchestrated a civil war so that half the Awoken would accompany her back to Sol to help humanity

[empty fern]

Distributary yea

[chrome fog]

Somewhat the point, they’re the Destiny equivalent to Sci-Fi Elves

[light stratus]

How many disciple does the witness have

[raw hazel]

Yes

[light stratus]

?

[jagged badge]

That we know of? 4 I think

[light stratus]

Does the hive not count

[raw hazel]

Four we know of yeah, probably more out there somewhere

And nope

[jagged badge]

They are not capital ‘D’ Disciples

Technically they don’t even specifically follow the ideals of the Witness

[raw hazel]

They were a convenient target to spite the Traveler and sow more death in the universe

[jagged badge]

An entire species that just doesn’t question genocide ever is just useful to have

[raw hazel]

Savvy was being trained to be a Disciple before flipped the tables

[light stratus]

Also do yous think that we will meet the disciple in the cave lore book

[raw hazel]

Could make for an interesting episode in the future

[outer dragon]

Yes

1000% yes

[outer dragon]

There aren't many void hunters because cannonically hunters are scardy cat chicken babies

[fast tapir]

[outer dragon]

And I can prove it

[candid inlet]

maelstronnar (ID 238506376165457920)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion

—Tevis, Log Entry 19338```

Command triggered by aitchtheletter. Message link from · Apr 15, 2024, 2:12 AM

[outer dragon]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/a-ranger-found?highlight=Log+Entry+19338

Hunters are scaredy cat chicken babies.

[empty fern]

It all makes sense now

I’m gonna be a scaredy cat chicken baby!!

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-hunter-xbox-gif-5952096

[kindred wyvern]

Does anyone know whom shaxx was thinking about in the lore for the new recluse?

[outer dragon]

Yes

Sjur Eido

[kindred wyvern]

Who was she?

[outer dragon]

Long story

One sec

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/sjur-eido?highlight=Sjur+Eido

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/wish-ender#sjur-eido

Queens Wrath and close friend of Shaxx and probably lover of Mara

[jagged badge]

There’s no probably about it

[outer dragon]

I couldn't rembmer the exact lore tab

so went with hedging bets

[gentle geyser]

And they were roommates

[analog torrent]

There's a pretty interesting bit of lore in the Thorium Holt set
There were Collapse survivors in the Lenape Valley above NYC after NYC got nuked (pre or post Collapse, not sure), and a warlock named Mendawasey extracted them to the Last City. Mendawasey is currently alive and in charge of Manhattan Nuclear Zone expeditions.

[next bobcat]

Sorry for late reply i was eep

[chrome fog]

Zoup wat are de questions

[next bobcat]

The questions are:
1: since we have outbreak perfected, could we theoretically recreate SIVA?
2: what else do we know about the Concordat?
3: in the root of nightmares raid, what is the lore behind the Explicator encounter?

[crystal wolf]

My favorite piece of lore is still "The helmet stayed on."

[jagged badge]

You know what actually happens there right?

[crystal wolf]

What's interpreted vs. what Byf said

(Yes)

[jagged badge]

There’s no interpretations

There’s just the facts of what happened

Shaxx recites Shakespeare from memory and then he and Mara share memories of Mara’s partner, Sjur Eido

[ember storm]

wish people would latch onto something better

[next bobcat]

And the helmet stayed on.

[ember storm]

like Shaxx being canonically married to everyone who won the Vow in crimson days

[jagged badge]

Just people being immature really

[next bobcat]

And then riven

[raw hazel]

But what being Crow was Uldren??????

Yeah I’m still tired from my nap

[ember storm]

I mean they’re never really jokes when they say that

they’re just stupid

[raw hazel]

Y e a h . .

[gentle geyser]

?

What about it

[raw hazel]

Nothing, I was just bringing it up as a joke

[ember storm]

reducing Crow to just “Uldren” goes against the entire point of his character, which a lot of people do

well, did

[raw hazel]

Yeah

[ember storm]

I haven’t seen nearly as many as there used to be

Haunted is probably the reason for the largest community shift

also probably just because a lot of people were like 14 years old when forsaken came out

[raw hazel]

Stuff like “helmet stays on”, “Crow = Uldren!!!”, or “Shin had two Ghosts!” Stuff that’s been disproven that a lotta people just stubbornly hold onto

[gentle geyser]

Its gonna confuse a sizable amount of people when final shape drops because of people who just don’t know about crow and are coming back to the game

[ember storm]

I mean

Crow was in forsaken

you’d have to have missed 80% of the game’s lifespan to not know he exists

[gentle geyser]

I mean Ive been convincing people to play who haven’t played since forsaken so its not off the table

[ember storm]

they’ll have a lot more stuff to be confused about for FS than the blue person with bad hair

[gentle geyser]

Your gonna have to be a lot more specific with that blue person description

[ember storm]

it does run in the sov family

unrelated but I like that they gave Uldren a white streak in his hair to match Mara

they actually resemble each other now

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah, huh

[raw hazel]

Huh, neat

[jagged badge]

I swear Uldren looks younger in D2 than in D1

Contrastingly, Mara looks older than she did in D1 imo

[raw hazel]

Mara was so damn babyfaced in D1

[jagged badge]

For some reason when I was a kid, D1 Uldren always made me think of this guy from GotG

It’s probably not even that much of a resemblance looking at them now

[raw hazel]

I can see it

[jagged badge]

But that was kid Eris’ idea of Uldren’s age range

[raw hazel]

They both had that smug smarmyness

At least the guy did earlier in the film

[jagged badge]

Oh yeah that probably contributed

[raw hazel]

Yeah, both had moments of looking down at the respective protagonists

[modern lodge]

I mean they do get rezzed in their prime I believe

[jagged badge]

Uldren

Not Crow

Crow looks the same as how Uldren did when he died anyway

[empty fern]

[modern lodge]

Ooooohh

Yeah righto

[rotund wyvern]

Best lore channel?

[modern lodge]

Mewing streak I guess

[rotund wyvern]

Is byf not the best one

[whole torrent]

oh you meant yt channel

yeah byf

[modern lodge]

Mewing streak is a channel

[rotund wyvern]

Where do I start

[modern lodge]

You just typed before I did

[rotund wyvern]

Do I start with destiny 1 lore

It says from origins to shadow keep

Imma start there

[trim grotto]

Can't say I've ever heard the name

[rotund wyvern]

What is the books of sorrow

[trim grotto]

Well, you can, but it's not strictly required. The current story arc, for example, begins primarily with Shadowkeep.

[rotund wyvern]

I wanna know the full lore

[trim grotto]

Think of it like a journal written mostly by Oryx, the Taken King. It's a biased recounting of Hive history.

[rotund wyvern]

I thought destiny 1 was the start of the light and darkness saga

[trim grotto]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/books-of-sorrow

[rotund wyvern]

Were the hive originally krill?

[trim grotto]

It was part of it, but the true arc began ramping up with Shadowkeep and the true introduction of the Black Fleet.

[trim grotto]

Proto-Hive, also referred to as krill in a metaphore that the community, particularly Byf, sort of made into now canonical name.

By just always using it as a species name for some reason

[rotund wyvern]

How tf did oryx become a man

[jagged badge]

King morph

[rotund wyvern]

Explain what that is

[trim grotto]

When Aurash took the King Morph upon claiming the Hive Parasite Worm, this Morph changed Aurash's gender.

Hive have different forms. King affects gender.

[rotund wyvern]

Xivu aurash is male too

[jagged badge]

No

[trim grotto]

No.

[jagged badge]

Xivu Arath is female

[rotund wyvern]

What was their fathers name

[jagged badge]

Aurash is who Oryx was before as a proto-Hive

[trim grotto]

The Osmium King

[rotund wyvern]

Wasn’t he in destiny 1

Pretty sure you fight in

[trim grotto]

No, he died literally billions of years ago.

[rotund wyvern]

I remember him being mentioned before

[trim grotto]

You're thinking of Oryx, the Taken King.

[jagged badge]

Grrr

[trim grotto]

Aurash became Auryx with the King Morph, and Auryx became Oryx upon learning to Take.

[rotund wyvern]

Did the witness create the taken

[trim grotto]

Possibly.

[rotund wyvern]

Do you think he created most of the races

[jagged badge]

It, and no

[trim grotto]

Nothing suggests it did, no.

It's rather against the creation of races.

[rotund wyvern]

Looks masculine enough to me lol

[trim grotto]

It's an amalgamation of an entire species. It uses the terms we, and others refer to the Witness as it.

It isn't a gendered being as far as we are aware.

[rotund wyvern]

Is their any reason y it hates us

[jagged badge]

Because it hates the Light

[trim grotto]

And the chaos of life.

[jagged badge]

So by proxy it hates those the Light touches especially

[rotund wyvern]

Jealousy of light I’m guessing

[jagged badge]

Not exactly

[trim grotto]

Jealousy? No, actually.

Jealousy would be Ghaul. And the old Eliksni Houses.

[rotund wyvern]

Why are people saying xivu arath is the next Villain

[trim grotto]

Because she's already been a villain this year, and she isn't dead yet. The Episode coming after the FS campaign called Heresy is about the Hive, and we assume it's related to her.

[rotund wyvern]

Which episode was she a villain of

[rotund wyvern]

Is she gonna be a raid boss

[trim grotto]

She was the antagonist of Season of the Deep, primarily. And Seraph before that.

[trim grotto]

No clue.

[rotund wyvern]

What are the ammanite

Apparently savathun killed auryx how is that possible if she’s much weaker then him

[trim grotto]

Simply a species living on the moons of Fundament, being tended to by the Traveler

[trim grotto]

You didn't really
Say anything here

Who says she's weaker? Particularly at that time? During the battle against the Ammonite, Auryx was easily the weakest sibling, as he refused to fight at first.

[rotund wyvern]

Then how did he get so much stronger lol

[rotund wyvern]

Power scalers lol

[shadow crypt]

What is this?

[trim grotto]

He started fighting. This is all outlined in the Books of Sorrow I linked earlier.

[trim grotto]

The Upended, powered by Xita, the Worm Mother. A doomsday device.

[shadow crypt]

Oh

So rhulk held xita captive in his pyramid

[trim grotto]

He did indeed, as part of the bargain that eventually lead to the creation of the Hive.

[fiery copper]

inhales
THE UPENDED, A NAME SUITABLE FOR THAT WHICH-

[shadow crypt]

What bargain

[trim grotto]

Her children, the Worm Gods, would have their freedom and their food. He would get the Worm Parasites, her servitude, and the creation of the Hive.

[fiery copper]

"You will become agents of the witness, and in return I don't immediately just kill all of you"

[shadow crypt]

Did savathun trap rhulk in the pyramid

Or is he camping out there

[fiery copper]

He was trapped yes

[trim grotto]

Well, that, and they no longer starve at the bottom of a gas giant.

[fiery copper]

Very salty about it

[trim grotto]

As she got the Light she created a ward locking him in

Very rude

[fiery copper]

Honestly

Starting to think this savathun lady perhaps is not the moth waifu reddit led me to believe

[jagged badge]

[gentle geyser]

She is

[shadow crypt]

Any theories on who the voice is in the trailer bungie put out yesterday?

[gentle geyser]

Its the traveler

[gentle geyser]

Wait yesterday?

Thats cayde

[fiery copper]

There was a trailer yesterday?

My honest reactor

[gentle geyser]

It got leaked so bungy just released it

[trim grotto]

Check #📢bungie-announcements

[fiery copper]

Based of them

Both sides

[trim grotto]

I'm pretty sure that was just sony releasing it a couple hours early as usual

Not a leak per se

[rotund wyvern]

What exactly is a worm god

[fiery copper]

Bigass longbois that work for the witness. The mother, Xita, is in vow of the disciple being drained to power up the final boss arena, and the 5(iirc) kids were the beings that gave the Hive the power to become MegaMurderMachines.

[rotund wyvern]

Which ones did xivu and oryx have

[jagged badge]

They don’t have Worm Gods

[dim minnow]

Worm Gods are a transformed version of Great Worms (not sure if that is their official name)

[rotund wyvern]

Thought they did

[dim minnow]

for reference of what a Great worm is, look to Ahsa

[trim grotto]

That's not really how that works

[fiery copper]

The worms inside of the hive are the offspring of the gods

[dim minnow]

Great Worms hold immense power related to the Darkness

aka great mental powers

[rotund wyvern]

Why does savathun have one but not the other ones

[fiery copper]

Oryx didn't have a whole 10 story snake inside him

[trim grotto]

That also isn't the case

She doesn't "have one"

[dim minnow]

also some reality warping like how they allow Hive to implement Sword Logic

[fiery copper]

She had a WORM, not a worm GOD.

[rotund wyvern]

What’s the difference

[jagged badge]

Lemme grab a picture

[fiery copper]

The lil guy hanging out in the Parasite grenade launcher is the offspring of one of the gods.

[dim minnow]

Hive worms are the spawn of the worm gods

all Hive ingest the worms

[trim grotto]

The Worm Gods provided the Hive with Worm Parasites that they take into their own bodies
The Worm Gods are the size of a town

Slight size difference

[dim minnow]

Savathun howeer had her's removed

[rotund wyvern]

Which one is the strongest

[jagged badge]

BRUH

Discord???

[rotund wyvern]

I seen what savathuns looked like nvm

[trim grotto]

Well Akka, Xol, and Xita are dead, but we don't know who is "strongest" out of those who remain

[rotund wyvern]

Who’s the strongest of those 3 lol

[trim grotto]

Xita was the mother Worm. Akka would have been next, then Xol.

[rotund wyvern]

Does Xita have a exotic named after her or no

[dim minnow]

my guess is Yul

[trim grotto]

Uh, no. Whisper of the Worm is of Xol, though.

[trim grotto]

Probably

[dim minnow]

since Yul is the one who Xol was afraid of

[rotund wyvern]

Is it him himself of or is just his soul or something

[fiery copper]

This is a worm god and a regular hive worm.

[dim minnow]

also Eir and Ur kind of lost their servant gods

Eir was tied to Oryx and Ur was tied to Savathun

[gentle geyser]

Wrm

[jagged badge]

Just a little guy

[trim grotto]

It's his power that he bound to us as he passed on. His legacy, in a way.

[jagged badge]

Oh huh

[trim grotto]

Anyway I've got to go
Have fun kids

[dim minnow]

keep in mind that the picture of the Hive worm is an xaggerated rendition for cuteness

[rotund wyvern]

Is yul related to xul?

[fiery copper]

We're not quite sure how much of him is in there, or if he can turn back. But, I imagine it would upset a lot of people if their exotic sniper dismantled itself and then proceeded to destroy our vaults AGAIN

[trim grotto]

Do you mean
Xûr

And if you do
No

[jagged badge]

Or Xol?

[rotund wyvern]

Xol I mean

[fiery copper]

Wym it's 100% canon

[trim grotto]

They're all siblings, bar Xita, the mother.

[rotund wyvern]

Why was xul afraid of yul

[dim minnow]

Xol was one of the weaker worm gods

[trim grotto]

Xol was small and weak. Yul might eat him.

[dim minnow]

he knew that Yul was trying to get the weaker ones killed off

[jagged badge]

Nomnomnom

[fiery copper]

Cuz he was a scrawny bitch who probably would have gotten eaten at some point

[dim minnow]

apparently, Xol is the worm god of death as well

[rotund wyvern]

Bryf just said that one of them was lesser to his brethren

[dim minnow]

hmmm

[rotund wyvern]

Think he said xol

[dim minnow]

Yul - Truth
Akka - Secrets
Xol - Death
Eir - Order
Ur - Hunger
think this lines up?

[rotund wyvern]

It said thousands

[dim minnow]

according to a former Bungie dev, Xol was the worm god of death

also apparently the Whisper takes place in his Throne World

[rotund wyvern]

Xol the will of thousands

[jagged badge]

Xol, Will of the Thousands

That’s his title

[rotund wyvern]

Was nokris way weaker than crota even with worm god power?

[fiery copper]

Yes

He'd have got his ass beat

[rotund wyvern]

Who’d win crota or savathun

[fiery copper]

Nokris did nothing except be frozen on mars for literal centuries, and for that entire time crota was working out and eating souls

[dim minnow]

Savathun wouldn't do a dirct fight

[rotund wyvern]

Is she scared of oryx and his bloodline?

[jagged badge]

Direct fight isn’t Savathûn’s style