📚lore-discussion

[chrome fog]

We’ve been saying this for a while

Because of its usage of we, it was theorized that it was a collective of consciousnesses, though the cutscene is just straight up confirmation

The traveler… also wants the same thing… just under different circumstances

[torpid flint]

Bionic, let them have their fun

let them believe it’s a Cold War battle with god powers

[dawn escarp]

The Witness wants order and simplicity, the Traveler creates chaos and complexity

[blazing wasp]

The witness attacked humanity because of apartment complexes

[dawn escarp]

Witness vs. The Landlord

[green cobalt]

those apartments seem pretty simple to me

[blazing wasp]

The witness does not care

[dawn escarp]

At this point it's a bit unclear whether the Witness wants control over creation (it's original goal) or the end of everything (what it claims to want)

[thorny sequoia]

Perhaps...and here is PURE speculation, he wants to go back to the beginning and make sure the Traveler doesn't even exist? I think it IS mentioned that the portal is through TIME and SPACE. Just my boggus idea

[dawn escarp]

Maybe, but that would cause the Grandfather Paradox

[blazing wasp]

Depends on how destiny views time

[dawn escarp]

True

[blazing wasp]

The grandfather paradox is not a paradox that is possible to occur in some fiction

[dawn escarp]

It could occur yes, but it would still be a paradox

[blazing wasp]

In some fiction, no

Because two timeliness coexist, and in the timeline where the grandfather dies, the person time traveling never comes along to kill the next grandfather

But current grandfather killer does, because their grandfather never died

[dawn escarp]

If that happens then it's not your grandfather, it's another timeline's version of him. Thus that's not the paradox

[blazing wasp]

Correct

Hence why the paradox is not possible to occur in this fictional example's viewpoint of time

[dawn escarp]

That's only if they arrive in a different timeline rather than the past

[tawdry mauve]

grandfather paradox only works in fiction with a singular timeline

and timetravel in that timeline

the second you introduce multiple timelines

it wont work

[chrome fog]

I mean it is (I say with the desintubo a Nova Bomb)

[blazing wasp]

The past is another timeline in this instance, the past in the same timeline isn't possible

It does not exist technically

[chrome fog]

Regardless, either is bad

[blazing wasp]

Like a infinite line of rivers, with boats on them

Every boat is the present, you can only time travel by jumping boats, and since no river has two or more boats you can only time travel by jumping timelines

A grandfather paradox is impossible because the past of one timeline does not exist

[dawn escarp]

Without knowing how timelines are created that is a pretty baseless claim

[blazing wasp]

Nor the future

Just present

[blazing wasp]

This is in fiction

I'm not saying its like this irl

But some fictional works using time follows this viewpoint of time

[dawn escarp]

And suddenly you write the rules for Destiny's universe?

[blazing wasp]

I'm not saying destiny follows this

And never did

[dawn escarp]

Than what are you saying?

[blazing wasp]

I'm saying if it did, grandfather paradox cannot work

Assuming grandfather paradox works in d2 assumes how time in d2 works

[dawn escarp]

That's an "if" statement so why did you bring this up?

[blazing wasp]

I'm saying we've got no fucking idea, thus we cannot assume grandfather paradox would or would not work

Though we could speculate
Speculation is very fun

That's what most of the stuff here is anyway, which is good, because it is fun

That or answering questions with known confirmed answers

Which is also fun the lore in this game is very fun

[dawn escarp]

If traveling into the past created an alternate timeline it would have no consequence

[blazing wasp]

Correct

It would just have a consequence for that timeline they jumped to

[dawn escarp]

Which is why it likely doesn't work that way

[blazing wasp]

And the other one continues on

We so far have exactly zero evidence that contradicts and zero that contributes

I could be right, you could be right, the local blueberry spitballing could be right

And honestly, that's way more fun

I want to emphasise I'm not saying you're wrong, nor trying to ridicule your viewpoint

I just want to propose different options for the sake of different options

[dawn escarp]

The paradox would either create a cycle from an outside view, or it would permanently rewrite history in said timeline. It would be effect without causation.

[blazing wasp]

Acausality, yeah

[vocal imp]

Is the veil connected to the traveler?

[sick yew]

No

Its likely its essentially the Darkness version of the Traveler tho

[chrome fog]

Yes it is

[sick yew]

What the Traveler is to the Light
The Veil is to the Dark

[chrome fog]

Cutscene says as much

Which makes sense as the Veil is either another piece of the Gardener or was the Winnower who was once within the same being as the Gardener

[vocal imp]

Ohh

[chrome fog]

Their connection as sources of primordial light and darkness respectively also supports this

[vocal imp]

Also uh is the witness just an entire species merged into one

[sick yew]

Yep

Which to be fair shouldnt come as too much of a surprise if you looked a bit closer at the WItness as a character

[chrome fog]

Either because the Gardener was the one that proposed the rules of Paracausality in general and therefore both pieces of her would be primordial sources of Light and Darkness or the Winnower and Gardener adopting the sides of Paracausality that fit them best

[vocal imp]

Why is lore always so chaotic and confusing

[chrome fog]

Lore in any franchise wouldn’t be lore without it

And like most lore, it’s confusing with others describing it to you but makes sense when you read it for yourself

[opal trout]

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-theory-explaining-gif-13403485

[vocal imp]

Ah ok!

So uh the pyramids were created by that species and wasn’t actually created by the darkness?

[chrome fog]

We’ve literally been like this since Arrivals because of the introduction of the Witness as a character as well as the introduction of Unveiling

[chrome fog]

They could very well be made of Darkness or have a major element of their design be Darkness but otherwise yeah

Darkness and Light are just forces, non-sentient and only there to be used

[opal trout]

bro i wish I was there when it was happening. i was reading it last year and i was going insane

[vocal imp]

The traveler seems to be sentient though?

[chrome fog]

Fun Fact: Unveiling was only one option, Hope and Truth were the other lore books you got if you rejected the Darkness

[chrome fog]

Traveler is not The Light, simply a source of it

[blazing wasp]

--> full of darkness

[chrome fog]

Just like we each are technically sources of Gravity but are not the force of Gravity itself

[blazing wasp]

It's one of the gods of creation

[vocal imp]

And the veil is the source of darkness?

[blazing wasp]

It's more than just "sentient"

[blazing wasp]

That's a hypothesis yes

[chrome fog]

Counterpart to the Traveler, yes

[chrome fog]

That’s just fact given the cutscene

[blazing wasp]

Oh right I haven't watched that one

Shite I really gotta get my ass home

But im stuck at the cabin 'til sunday

Late sunday

[vocal imp]

After reading all this lore I want to play destiny again so badly but I don’t want to download 150GB in required content

[blazing wasp]

Maybe early monday

[vocal imp]

I hate psn shenanigans ;-;

[chrome fog]

Rip a doodle, if you’d like you can just watch it on YouTube; mission is just do a Lost sector and then talk to Ahsa and Sloan

[blazing wasp]

It's cooler if done via the mission

[chrome fog]

Fair enough

[blazing wasp]

I guess I'll save my opinions on the veil 'til then

[chrome fog]

A great and horrible day for lore when it released; great because of confirmations and infos, horrible because, well

“ThIs ShOuLd’Ve BeEn In LiGhTfAlL”

[vocal imp]

Mission?

[chrome fog]

Seasonal mission

From the most recent reset

[vocal imp]

If it’s seasonal then I probably missed it ;-;

[chrome fog]

It’s this season’s mission

You can still play it

[vocal imp]

Do you need to buy it or

[chrome fog]

I don’t think so

Wait there’s seasonal passes I forgot

[vocal imp]

Another day of destiny locking everything behind paywalls

[opal trout]

TRU

[chrome fog]

They still need to make money, the monetization isn’t as aggressive to include lootboxes

[vocal imp]

I know they need to make money and all but hear me out

Having to pay for a season every couple months, all dlcs cost like 50$, even some dungeons cost money

And if your f2p then you pretty much can’t play the game

Even multiplayer is locked if your on psn ;-;

[chrome fog]

That’s what happens when a game you initially had to pay for goes f2p

And they can’t do a Fortnite because they don’t want to go that aggressive with monetizing cosmetics

You can transmog any armor set you have and earn bright dust from bounties anywhere

As bad as it can be, it can be infinitely worse

Especially remembering that Activision used to own Bungie before they went independent and then bought by Sony

[jolly vector]

its already getting worst when the season pass goes from 10$ to 15$

[vocal imp]

You see I would be fine with this if atleast they left some free dlcs for f2p players, since there’s pretty much 0 content

Ahem, the red war, curse of Osiris, the warmind

[chrome fog]

Final Shape might help with that, seeing as they might have a lore reason for stuff to come back as well as just having had the time to work on bringing all that old content back as well as develop a campaign and lore and seasons to continue the story they want to tell

[opal trout]

at the very leat, the red war

[chrome fog]

But there’s also the issue that they developed that content under Activision, who still holds publishing rights

It’s the same reason D1 expansions are still purchaseable

[vocal imp]

As someone who replayed the red war 78 times because I was bored, I want it to be brought back

[opal trout]

lol

[sick yew]

Thats an exaggerated number yes?

[vocal imp]

Uhhhhhh

[sick yew]

[vocal imp]

[sick yew]

Im not gonna do the math but why would you delete 75 characters just to replay the campaigns

[vocal imp]

You see, there was no content before so I would keep deleting characters, doing all 3 campaigns (curse of Osiris, red war and the warmind)

Then delete my character

And repeat

And just keep doing that

I was really bored and didn’t want to do quests or raids or dungeons or whatever

[chrome fog]

I can see that happening

[sick yew]

Sounds like the most boring shit imaginable

Whats yo guardian tag

[vocal imp]

Somehow my stupid brain liked it

[vocal imp]

How do I check that?

I play on psn

[sick yew]

Ingame whats your guardians name tag

[vocal imp]

Oh

I’m downloading like 150GB in required content atm so I can’t get on

Completed 3 of the downloads, 3 more left -;

[opal trout]

78 metals of honor during the red war

[sick yew]

More like 78 medals of not falling asleep within the first two missions

[vocal imp]

The first missions were the most epic!

[sick yew]

I personally liked the mission on the Almighty more

[fringe lantern]

maybe i missed something but did we ever find out why the shadow legion was taking prisoners last season?

[ember storm]

don't think so

[cinder cedar]

no

[chrome fog]

Other than them being suspiciously accommodating and the weird particles in the pyramids’ air, no

I’m expecting something to happen with the ‘Witness spores’ thing later this year or during Final Shape

[torpid flint]

In the technically definition of the Cold War, yes and no

Only difference is, we aren’t fighting a proxy

war

Well..

Technically the Witness is

[chrome fog]

Initially we were, but virtue of the Hive and the Sol Divisive, however we weren’t sending proxies but our own people

Also how did density turn into desintubo

I Guess a Cold War between the Traveler and the Witness

[torpid flint]

Of sorts, yeah

My only current issue with D2 lore rn is we’ve seen the witness controlling the black fleet but the traveler itself has nothing really

The Gardner sometimes just seems like the Winnowner, purely fictional atm

however you have theorized that the winnowner could be the fictional version of what the witness wants to be, Bionic

So I would wonder if later on, the same could be said for the Gardner

@chrome fog thoughts?

[chrome fog]

The Traveler has done the most in the last ten years than it has in the millennia running from the Witness

Every two years she releases a blast of Light after being awakened in Red War

The Guardians are the only ones having been granted Light directly albeit after death and through the proxy of the Ghosts

Yet she still has not told us what to do, never imposed a purpose upon us

She didn’t do it with the Witness, she will not do it to any others

Her goal is to have faith that all the mortals will learn to work together and achieve a better living than taking each other out in a struggle for power

[torpid flint]

So it would go against the Traveler’s ideals if it had someone that was behind it

Essentially the Gardner is the Traveler then?

[chrome fog]

I

What

We’ve been saying she is the Gardener this whole time

Unveiling and Alphi Lupi attribute her actions to the Gardener as if they were the same person

And the Cutscene does the same as well

[torpid flint]

I haven’t read Alphi Lupi yet, so my bad

[chrome fog]

Neither have I, but I’ve read snippets from someone else proposing theories of the Gardener, Winnower, and the Witness

Even past that, Unveiling and maybe MK 44 Stand Asides or one of the Titan leg exotics does the attribution thing, using the Gardener’s name in place of the Traveler

[torpid flint]

I’ll have to reread them again

[outer dragon]

Explain
I know that after breaking the cage she did this but where is it stated it happens regularly

[chrome fog]

Shadowkeep, she blasts Light to keep the Pyramids from encroaching further into Sol
Two more years into Lightfall and she blasts Light at the Witness to keep it away

So Red War -2 years-> Shadowkeep(Arrivals) -2 years-> Lightfall

[outer dragon]

Interesting

[chrome fog]

Just observational

[opal trout]

||The Traveler voted for Brexit ||

[cosmic lark]

I'm back

Uh so I got back from watching the witness origin story

Did Bungie retcon the gardener and winnower?

[smoky rose]

It was never 100% anyways

Not a retcon if it was witness propaganda from the outset

[chrome fog]

I’m pushing for one theory, that the ‘Winnower’ is just what the Witness wished the Gardener and the Veil were like

[cosmic lark]

I was looking back on the unraveling story and then thought "This didn't make sense to me"

[chrome fog]

Not unless Unveiling is a propagandized recounting of events

[cosmic lark]

To me I think that the witness took the role of the first knife for winnower

It's sort of gave that vibe

[chrome fog]

Ma theo rei

[cosmic lark]

If that were the case, bungie is making a mistake

They were consistent from point A to point b

Yet with the witness origins being introduced, it's leaving the majority of fans questioning including me

[smoky rose]

A trap that people fell into was that Unveiling was true

100%

[chrome fog]

Were they? It has always been fuzzy whether or not the Witness and the Winnower were the same, if the Witness was the same being that helped create the universe

[smoky rose]

Bear in mind that it's quite literally Witness propaganda trying to manipulate us to his side

[chrome fog]

We only trusted it as much because of outside sources and it was the only thing we had on the origins of this universe

[torpid flint]

Of course there could be the other possibility of them being two separate entities but still following his side of the wager

[chrome fog]

That doesn’t necessarily fit, what with the Veil being the complimentary being to the Gardener/Traveler yet not following the same precepts as the Winnower or Witness; meanwhile, the Witness’ actions fit more with the Winnower’s

[cinder cedar]

Well I mean wasn’t it obvious that the traveler is the gardener and the witness is the winnower I mean gardeners grow plants and crest “life” wile a winnower is somthing that I don’t even know what it is but winnower witness both start with w their the same

[fresh zephyr]

Where did lady efrideet go after d2

[ember storm]

home

[fair wagon]

she still wanders the earth, still searching for the next Speaker

[smoky rose]

There's a pacifist colony of guardians out there somewhere

We don't know where

But she went back to them

[tender cove]

I see Witness as more of a catalyst to bring about the final shape. Not the winnower itself. The veil is most likely the manifestation of the Winnower in the physical universe after creation.

[dim minnow]

if the Unveiling texts is true, then there has to be an existing Winnower

and that Winnower can't be the Witness

since the Witness existed after the Unveiling stuff happened

[rotund adder]

Can I throw a wild idea out there

[opal trout]

nah u dead

[rotund adder]

What if the Winnower is the thing that created the traveler and the veil, cause how else were they created. Just a thought don't kill me

[real ingot]

🤨

That's uh

[opal trout]

the Winnower is expressed to be something that takes the role of sort of cleansing unnecessary life. the Traveler is in complete contradiction to that, while the Veil is about the power of Darkness, a power of the meta-physical.

[rotund adder]

I said it was a crazy idea im sorry😭

[opal trout]

its no biggie fam

it can be hard to talk about this lore

[dim minnow]

the Traveler is pretty much confirmed to be the Gardener at this point

[rotund adder]

I always assumed the traveler was the gardener, and the witness the winnower, but obviously only one of those assumptions was right

[dim minnow]

if the Unveiling lore book is true (and our interpretation of it is) then the Witness being the Winnower is unlikely

but given how allegorical Unveiling is, the Witness being the Winnower could be slipped in

[smoky rose]

It can’t be ignored how perfectly unveiling lines up with the Witness

Hell the name the gardener is one that was bestowed upon it by the witness

Note that that’s what they called it before they found the Veil

[tender cove]

How many Travellers are there? Is there one for each universe? I don't think this is answered yet.

[tender cove]

I think it's all life. Simplest form of the universe where no living thing can exist.

[dim minnow]

general consensus is that there is only one Traveler

[candid inlet]

gestaltzerfall2343 (ID 422866711344185345)

[Message Link](#📚lore-discussion message) to #📚lore-discussion
I’d like to propose again that the Witness species imposed the image of the ‘Winnower’ unto the Veil as they were expecting more from the companion entity to their deity, and that the Winnower as a concept is simply their idealized version of their god

Command triggered by gestaltzerfall2343. Message link from · Jun 24, 2023, 1:32 PM

[chrome fog]

There a lot of things that feel obvious but are then proven to be something else, and then other things that we think are not true yet turn out to be so. The nature of Destiny’s lore means we have to scour it’s lore and the reference from which it’s given in order to come to any solid conclusions. Gardener = Traveler has already had some solid evidence but now a cutscene shown to all players has stated it outright, which means there’s no room for other interpretation of whether the Traveler and the Gardener are the same

[cinder cedar]

true and the Gadiner being the Traviler makes scense gardeners grow plants and the traviler "grows" life wile the witness takes life or destroys the plants

and can somone please tell me what a winnower is

[slim elk]

The ones that cull weeds and dead plants

[cinder cedar]

wait

[fiery copper]

The act of winnowing is going through a garden/field/orchard/place where you grow things, and clearing out the dead things so the still-living ones can thrive.

Also weeds yeah

[cinder cedar]

so that does make scence with the winnowers goles

[fiery copper]

Yes

[cinder cedar]

did you copy past the definition

[fiery copper]

No

I'm just very smart

[cinder cedar]

hmm

[fiery copper]

[slim elk]

Its pretty simple. Too much of a "singular" form of life will choke out any other form of life
A literal example of this is Kudzu, actively strangles and parasitizes other plants

[cinder cedar]

true

[slim elk]

In essence, some things need to die so others can live
The very basic logic of predator-prey

[cinder cedar]

also can we mention that the Witness peirced the Traviler and entered it so I wonder what its like cause the darkness has flowers and fields and the pyrimids are smooth and exact I wonder what the Traviler is like

[slim elk]

What seems to be the case in Destiny is that Gardener-Winnower are going to the "logical extremes" of their respective "roles".. which is bad for life in either end

[cinder cedar]

true both arent necucerily good or bad

but its just perspective

[slim elk]

The Witness? It wants a "new game"

Usurp both the Light and Dark and create a new universe in its image

[chrome fog]

It’s a portal

Also the Flowers in the pyramid was because of the Traveler blasting a Light beam through it

The field you talk to the Witness in is inside the Black Garden, a portion of the original Garden from Unveiling

And again, not to say you’re wrong, but just taking the first glance and seeing “Ooo it grow thing” doesn’t mean we should accept it as fact

[cinder cedar]

I wonder what the lights form is like the Witness is the form of the darkness but there is also the form that we kill in destny 1

[chrome fog]

Witness is not the Darkness

It is a civilization conglomerated into one being

[cinder cedar]

wait so then it represents the drakness?

[chrome fog]

And what do you mean that one form we kill in Destiny 1, we’ve only met the Witness during D2

[slim elk]

Nah, that be the Veil

[chrome fog]

No

[slim elk]

Simplify this
Traveler=Gardener=Light
Veil=Winnower=Darkness

[chrome fog]

It is a powerful user of Darkness to the point it can spread its influence through it, but it is not the Darkness itself

[cinder cedar]

the darkness goop thing we kill in the first campain of D1 at the end with the Vex

[chrome fog]

The Darkness is a neutral Force

[chrome fog]

That’s the Black Heart

[fresh zephyr]

The black heart?

[chrome fog]

Failed copy of the Veil

[cinder cedar]

OHHHHH

I thought it was the darkness cause thats what I kept hearing

[chrome fog]

Light and Darkness have no sentience of their own

They are neutral forces, different sides to using Paracausality

[cinder cedar]

ok so if the witness isnt the darkness then wtf is the traviler

[chrome fog]

A source of Light

Not the Light itself, simply a bastion of it

[cinder cedar]

its a machine though right

[chrome fog]

Someone who can control it and share it

[slim elk]

Simplify this
Traveler=Gardener=Light
Veil=Winnower=Darkness

[cinder cedar]

k

[chrome fog]

We don’t know; we know it is one of the creator deities that formed the universe but we don’t know what it’s current physical form is

[cinder cedar]

ok ok

[chrome fog]

The Eliksni simply worshiped it as the Machine God, most likely because it blessed them with technological advancements

[cinder cedar]

next sesinal camain mabey

[slim elk]

Theres still secrets to be had here naturally. We have no idea what the hell Cayde is doing returning in Final Shape

[cinder cedar]

they used too

then the wirlwind

[chrome fog]

Some still do, like Misraaks

Regardless

It is just one name

[cinder cedar]

well ya but thats a small percent

[chrome fog]

Regardless

[cinder cedar]

true

I wonder where Erimis is

[slim elk]

Most logical move next is digging up Savathuns corpse and interrogating her.. she knew the Witness origins somehow and did her "truth games" to troll us with it

[chrome fog]

Somewhere

She last helped in the previous season

[cinder cedar]

true dont know what shes gona do

[chrome fog]

@slim elk we have her corpse in storage, it’s just getting Immaru to cooperate and then getting her to cooperate

[torpid flint]

Maybe the witness has some of its history on one of the pyramids

[slim elk]

Yeah, thats the interesting part. What will it take for us to "cross that line"

[torpid flint]

Probably a bunch of close people dying and the vanguard being pushed to their limits

Just need a mutually beneficial deal for her not to just outright kill us

[cinder cedar]

also I want to mention off topic but I HATE crow he killed Caid so I dont like him at all but with the new caid memorial come on there is a cool cutscene where crow is looking at it and says some stupiud stuff and ends up getting ace of spades as his new wepon showing he has changed or somthing

[slim elk]

Kinda already crossed that point?
Witness is in its endgame.. Godzilla Threshold has been crossed

[fresh zephyr]

Crow don't kill cayde

[chrome fog]

I think the present situation would be when a mutually beneficial agreement to cooperate would be good

[fresh zephyr]

Uldren killed cayde

[cinder cedar]

He helped

[chrome fog]

He didn’t

[cinder cedar]

same person

[chrome fog]

No

I’m not justifying this with explanation, just no

Someone else can but

They are not the same person

[torpid flint]

Yes but right now the Vanguard has no real point to try resurrecting her. Currently we have leads we’re digging through

I knew this would happen eventually lmao

[chrome fog]

For firepower maybe, info maybe, but rn it’s now priority

[cinder cedar]

Wait but Uldren was reserected by a ghost and is now a gardian who goes by crow there was a whole sesion about it

[chrome fog]

Guardians are not the same as the person whose body they were resurrected in

[torpid flint]

Most likely asking to destroy the pyramids

[cinder cedar]

cause they forget everything ya I know

[chrome fog]

The whole point of Haunted is that they are not the same person

[torpid flint]

He didn’t remember who he was until SOTL

[slim elk]

Yeah, just find it pretty funny we stopped the one thing that would make Xivu pause like nothing else in the universe.. resurrecting oryx

[chrome fog]

It’s not the same thing as having amnesia, they are just not the same

[torpid flint]

Honestly would have been cooler if WE were the ones who revived him cause then he may actually join the Vanguard

But no

[cinder cedar]

Im saying that there could be a cool cutscene where we see Crow at Cyads memorial and we talk to him or somthing and he ends up now being the user of Ace of spades showing that he changed or somthing idk

[chrome fog]

[torpid flint]

Let the Hive complete their ritual with their ghosts, convince ghost before rez to help us, and hope that Savathun doesn’t find out and fucking kill us

[cinder cedar]

isnt he ment to be the new Hunter vangard

[chrome fog]

I mean that’s cool but also

He is literally

A different person

[cinder cedar]

we killed her once we can do it again this time make it a raid

[chrome fog]

End of story

[slim elk]

Its pretty much the only viable way to get a clean kill on Xivu if Bungie keeps the "cant beat the god of war at their own game" act
Make the enemy Xivu is fighting... herself

[chrome fog]

No

[cinder cedar]

I know but still jsut a thought

[torpid flint]

Basically make her destroy herself, like two parasites

or the power of FRIENDSHIP!

https://tenor.com/view/friendship-workaholics-power-friendship-power-blake-anderson-gif-7642697

[cinder cedar]

I realy wana kill Xivu like we killed the other 2, 1 more to go

[torpid flint]

Jk

[slim elk]

Yep, or break her entire faith so badly she commits hari-kiri
Sees the worm truth

[chrome fog]

To congratulate on Crow taking up Hunter Vanguard and actually being a responsible leader unlike most other Hunter Vanguards, sure; getting over his trauma about the past and moving on to better things? Sure. To tell him he’s a different person than Uldren? No

[cinder cedar]

not the difrent person

[torpid flint]

Actually… that might work

[torpid flint]

Hang on, I missed WHAT?!

[cinder cedar]

just showing he is ready to take up such a role

[chrome fog]

He might be, could be pushed towards that story point

Hadn’t happened yet

[chrome fog]

Shut up

[torpid flint]

Oh, so we’re still at what we theorized in the beginning

[cinder cedar]

this

[torpid flint]

This should be good

[slim elk]

Just listen to Xivu in the dungeon.. shes grieving badly and having doubts shes forcing down

[chrome fog]

And I gave you better reasons for the cutscene even happening if it ever does

[cinder cedar]

harsh

[cinder cedar]

ya I agree

[chrome fog]

Reiterating a point we already know because that’s been the arc of Crow’s entire story? Not the fucking play

[cinder cedar]

Lisen man I ment it as a way to show he is responisble to take up such a big role like you said

[torpid flint]

So you’re saying a Teen game should have the antagonist commits die die because they realized their thousands of years of killing was built on a lie that they would ascend together, while grieving

I completely agree

[cinder cedar]

I didnt mean it as a way to show Crow is difrent from Uldren

[chrome fog]

And my Crow not being Uldren summary is deleted because of whoever made the fucking server wipe

[cinder cedar]

dude I get it now

ok

I just took a break and forgot some of the little bits of lore

[slim elk]

This same teen game has openly discussed misguided acts of genocide, relationship abuse and gaslighting family members.. thats small in comparision XD

[torpid flint]

He’s annoyed cause this point has been made… a couple hundred times

[cinder cedar]

and I have agreed

[fiery copper]

For all intents and purposes crow is an identical twin to uldren who never knew his sibling

I know that's not exactly it

But shut up

It's close enough

[cinder cedar]

I am just staiting what I ment in the original cause he thought I ment somthing else

[torpid flint]

Don’t forget peeling your armor off with your skin attached to it

Like damn is that metal

[fiery copper]

And then the entirety of zavala's arc in Haunted

Mid af season

[cinder cedar]

I know

[fiery copper]

But without zavala it would be actively detrimental to the game

[cinder cedar]

Tbh never knew Zavala could pull at all

[chrome fog]

Yeah sorry, a bit miffed irl and also the point has been beaten to death, shouldn’t have dogged you like that

[fiery copper]

He carries it on his fucking back

[cinder cedar]

It’s good

[slim elk]

Yeah, I seen this trick before.. where if they evade certain words then its still gets a kid friendly rating

.. even including a straight up execution attempt via tying the player to a piller and attempting to claw them to death on screen.. in a E rated game

[cinder cedar]

Sorry for not knowing the lore

[slim elk]

||that was Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Explorers||

[torpid flint]

||God of War immediately comes to mind ||

[cinder cedar]

Drifter pulls more than anyone ever in Destiny we can all agree on that

[torpid flint]

||Impressed it didn’t get the A rating||

[slim elk]

Check the spoiler for the game I was referencing in particular lol

[torpid flint]

Oh I know, and im honestly surprised and not at the same time

[slim elk]

By me knowing of that scene?

[torpid flint]

That it happened

||I’ve never played Pokémon ||

[fiery copper]

Pokemon mystery dungeon =/= pokemon

[cinder cedar]

I wonder what Xur does in his free time

[slim elk]

heh. Yeah.. still. a scene like that... in a Pokemon game

[fiery copper]

It's a spin off

You play as a talking pokemon in a world without humans

[cinder cedar]

Pokémon dungeons?

[torpid flint]

Remember kids, it’s not war crimes if it’s not human!

so many TV shows that should have gotten a higher rating but didn’t

[fiery copper]

Highly recommend getting a DS emulator and [LEGALLY ACQUIRING] a rom for Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky

[slim elk]

Want the mainline then? Try X and Y
Where the main villain is straight up using a doomsday weapon to kill everyone.. and in X is heavily implied to become immortal.. and buried underneath a mountain of rubble

[fiery copper]

Procedurally generated dungeon crawler

[cinder cedar]

So Pokémon ultra dungeon maze

[chrome fog]

Ur good , just not having a great time and let it affect my actions

[torpid flint]

Legally you say?

[fiery copper]

Or the manga

Just pick a chapter of the manga, someone probably dies

[cinder cedar]

It’s good

[torpid flint]

In a horrible way right?

[chrome fog]

Yeah it’s wack

[real ingot]

Pretty sure Lynsandre’s dialogue bought that game down to for kids

[fiery copper]

The very first volume of the Red manga run, pikachu fucking explodes an onix. Not just KOs it, IT IS SHATTERED INTO PIECES.

[torpid flint]

Damn I didn’t know Pokémon could be so dark

[cinder cedar]

I would shoot my self if a Fortnite manga existed

[slim elk]

Suffice to say, Destiny can go down the route of utterly breaking Xivus mind and making her ultimately commit suicide in a fashion XD

[fiery copper]

There's an anime adaptation, kingdom hearts

[chrome fog]

Batman crossover comic

[torpid flint]

Someone has probably drawn one lmao

[chrome fog]

It’s fucking

Good somehow

And the lore for Fortnite is also good

[cinder cedar]

Wasn’t green your rivals ratata does

[chrome fog]

Which should be impossible but it is

[fiery copper]

Complex =/= good

[cinder cedar]

Close but not yet

[torpid flint]

Yeah, im still wondering how the fuck that happened

[cinder cedar]

Batman is a comic so not surprised

[torpid flint]

I miss the good ol Kevin

[unreal tulip]

Someone say pokemon mystery dungeon 🗣️

[torpid flint]

Loreing rn

[chrome fog]

No it’s good, I like how the rules work for getting the win, a little miffed about the Zero Point being the center of all multiverses but it’s still awesome

[cinder cedar]

Well if I see it 🥲

[torpid flint]

I honestly liked the Chapter 1/2 lore, 3 is a bit much tbh

[slim elk]

"Rock and Stone"

[chrome fog]

Would actually like to recommend it, they do great work making the characters rely on facial expression initially, and then having them have amnesia in the second half of the arc is also great

[cinder cedar]

Lisen fortnite lore is like destiny 2 lore and fnaf lore mixed with John Wick lore

What’s it about

[chrome fog]

The whole thing with the crew dudes and the Rock but a Fortnite guy

[chrome fog]

Multiverses

[torpid flint]

GIANT ROBOT!

[cinder cedar]

Flash point

[cinder cedar]

THE ROCK

[chrome fog]

Actually Zero Point 🤓

[unreal tulip]

For Karl 🗣️

[torpid flint]

Speaking of which, a certain character should be in there from the greatest animated movie of all time

[chrome fog]

Not sure what you mean

[torpid flint]

Miles

[cinder cedar]

Galactice tried it eat that

I wonder how it taste

[chrome fog]

Ah, tru tru

[torpid flint]

Like sparking water

[cinder cedar]

Na more like sweaty try hard sand racist 5 year olds

[slim elk]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-rock-galactic-rock-and-stone-gif-22047860

[torpid flint]

Honestly would make sense considering what the movie implied

wait till Fortnite gets literally every spider man

[chrome fog]

I think they did via the Spider-Man skin and it’s alts

[cinder cedar]

Wait till Fortnite get the chapter 100 Openhiemer

https://tenor.com/view/nuke-gif-8044239

[unreal tulip]

Molly>our ghost

[torpid flint]

Anyway as much fun as this is

Should probably get back to lore before mods notice

Technically this is lore tho

[cinder cedar]

True I mean Fortnite destiny did do a cross over

[unreal tulip]

Doesn't specify destiny lore technically

[slim elk]

Yeah
So running theory I have next season is we will revive Savathun and using her to play on Xivus emotions to remove from the board

[cinder cedar]

We got shorty skins and a old battle bus and they got Zalval Ikora Exostranger the fish ghost (I’m still mad they got and we didn’t)

[torpid flint]

Probably gonna heavily involve Mara

[slim elk]

More Savathun trolling Mara incoming

[torpid flint]

That was the best moment of that season

I loved every second of it

[cinder cedar]

Lisen I know how we beat every threat that comes our way

1000 gardiens

[torpid flint]

Could we maybe see the Cabal instead of Mars?

Mara*

[slim elk]

Mercury more likely

[torpid flint]

hmm yes

[cinder cedar]

1 with gallerhorn and the rest with but any rocket launcher

[torpid flint]

Actually would like for it to come back

[cinder cedar]

I say we enter the travels whole

[torpid flint]

Could probably use the Sundial to get answers tbh, which would probably hurt us

[slim elk]

Spinfoiling a bit, but I think whatever "song" stuff that Vance was investigating was actually a "latchkey"
Whatever it was, Mara knew about it and wanted it buried

[torpid flint]

I wonder if the Song was a way to get into the distributary

[slim elk]

Gaze your eyes to the portal 😉
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/ii-theory#book-purpose

Music of the Spheres...

[torpid flint]

Ahh so… could the Song help uncover the mystery of the Veil?

It’s shown, if I remember, that Mara knew of it beforehand

just didn’t know where it was, correct?

[dim minnow]

the song is literally Hope for the Future

you know, an in-game live event where it is a concert playing the Music of the Spheres ending in Hope for the Future would be an acceptable way to have us bypass the Veil/Traveler portal

I don't even care how corny it would be

[torpid flint]

I want it just cause that’s funny for destiny

[slim elk]

I mean, in that entry they dance around saying it.. but everything Ikora and osrisis are saying ther relates to music

[torpid flint]

We’ll see if our little spinfoil theory is correct

Would be hilarious if it turns out to be

[slim elk]

You're getting ahead of yourself. Following some of my… less favorable tendencies. Nimbus says we must 'flow' to understand Strand; perhaps it is the same with the Veil." Osiris moves beside Ikora and reaches up, palm parallel to the threads drawn taut from Ikora's braid of Strand. "Sol remembered Titan, in a way. The Veil's signal spiked when Titan returned from memory to reality, when the rhythm of the solar system had been restored to order." Osiris drops his hand and looks to Ikora. "Perhaps we must simply find that rhythm before we are able to interpret the beats within it."

[torpid flint]

Little did he know

[slim elk]

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/targeted-redaction

[torpid flint]

Vance had the answer

So just as well then

That could mean Mercury comes back next season

[slim elk]

Would fit a theme really

Maybe Savathun points it out and why she had a targeted redaction

[torpid flint]

Be interesting if Mercury comes back… with less Vex on it

more Hive perhaps

seems to be the main theme this Year

[slim elk]

Endgame with the portal is likely the Veil

So..maybe a grand siege on the Cloudark maybe

[dim minnow]

I bet we're going to use Resonance to sing Hope for the Future to the Veil

[torpid flint]

Maybe Mercury comes back as a staging ground for the Hive? Titan would make more sense however

[dim minnow]

wait, I just remembered something that could be huge

the Lighthouses

Osiris mentioned to Vance that the Lighthouses showed the destructive potential of the Light (or something like that)

[slim elk]

Recall the Witness cutscene where they mention Light can cause mass destruction?

[torpid flint]

The hive could take over the Lighthouse for their own benefit

[dim minnow]

exactly

[torpid flint]

By making them into a WMD, it could be possible to completely destroy the Cloudark

Xivu wouldn’t have to use her own forces to assault the cloudark then

She could focus those elsewhere

[slim elk]

See.. your close... but flip the script

After all, look just who seems to have been behind the Cloudark

[torpid flint]

So close but so far

[slim elk]

Maya:We are past the point of morality!
salvation....

[dim minnow]

"…that Guardians have dangerous potential within them."```

[torpid flint]

Oh.. OHHH now I get what you’re saying

[slim elk]

Yep. Burn Neomuna to the ground [metahphorically speaking] to carve a path to follow the Witness

[dim minnow]

WMD?

[torpid flint]

Weapon of Mass Destruction

[dim minnow]

so Maya is turning what into a WMD?

sorry I haven't been folowing

[torpid flint]

no not maya lmao

My bad

[dim minnow]

Vance turning the Lighthouses into a WMD?

[torpid flint]

It would really only make sense for Savathun’s faction to do so

Capture the Lighthouse, and I think Freak said the cutscene showed the light could cause massive damage

but I wonder if I’m just going crazy now

[dim minnow]

now I'm starting to remember the Tree of Silver Wings

could that tie into the destructive nature of the Light?

maybe a representation of the Duality of Light

[torpid flint]

Possible, don’t remember much of it since I wasn’t there for that season

[dim minnow]

The Gardener is hard to bother; she is constantly amidst her weeds, kneeling in the tangent dust, gloves covered in a mix of distant soils and metallic saps. She is listening to the music of the insects amidst the flowers, the unguent as it begins to drip from the ferns, the slight scratch of the Worm beneath, and not to you, and certainly not to your cries for help.```

[dim minnow]

there's like three of them now

the stump of the original one in the black Garden (end of GoS)
The one Osiris planted (from Arrivals)
and the one the Traveler beam created (Root of Nightmares)

[slim elk]

See.. I'm wondering if we will be able to do it.. cross the line by reviving Savathun, and following her advice...

Crash the Cloudark, purge Neomuna of its conspiracy and burn a path to follow the Witness..

[torpid flint]

There’s a lot of things that can go wrong with that path

[slim elk]

Indeed, its fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baQVB2W1KAQ
Meanwhile... oddly appropriate to what is going on

[torpid flint]

How did you know what song I was just gonna put on?

[dim minnow]

imagine we see Neomuni outside of the Cloudark and they dress like they do disco

[torpid flint]

Maybe we can wake everyone up from the cloudark

[slim elk]

Well, they would be deader then disco...

[torpid flint]

Well, turn them into Exos, maybe

[dim minnow]

Veil about to go "it's winnowing time" after seeing more exos after centuries

[slim elk]

But yeah.. human antagonist in destiny.. be a nice finale before Final Shape

[rich veldt]

thats one thing, how do guardian exos survive on neomuna? is it cause of the light?

[dim minnow]

probably

[vagrant bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/pvz-disco-zombie-gif-25292378

[final geyser]

can't wait for cayde to meet crow

it'd be so funny if crow goes to introduce himself and cayde just shoots him

[green cobalt]

but crow is just so beefy

[ember storm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/828927741696409640/1082412461518487672/die.gif

[rigid flower]

The Light by Disturbed also fits very well.

[ruby pivot]

who is kelgorath again?

[rigid flower]

Basically the Taniks of the Hive.

Used to work for Savathun before figuring out she used the light.

He went over to Xivu and Xivu keeps giving him more chances due to his undying loyalty. That being said, he keeps losing.

[ruby pivot]

damn

ok so we got taniks, kelgorath for the hive(as taniks of the hive)

who is taniks of the cabal?

the arms dealer guy?

[rigid flower]

I actually just wrote something on my phone, but not sure how to share it without having other people edit it.

[rigid flower]

So far no one, the arms dealer guy was replaced by another Cabal, so def not him.

Aaaaaand to share it will make it a downloadable file.

[slim perch]

wouldn't calus kind of count

dude just kept showing up

[rigid flower]

Funny you should say that.

Fuck it, just gonna share the file.

[slim perch]

[rigid flower]

That is...not the name of the file.

[slim perch]

i aint downloading that

[ruby pivot]

huh....but calus died for good this time right?

actually you know what

[rigid flower]

It's not something dangerous, I wrote it in my notes app over the past hour.

[ruby pivot]

considering we got taniks and kelgorath

maybe we got an AI calus

[rigid flower]

It's, funnily enough, about Calus.

I wish I could just share it as a link.

[ruby pivot]

google docs?

[rigid flower]

I guess I can copy and paste it into a google doc.

[slim perch]

i mean

i guess ghaul then??

[rigid flower]

Lemme see if I can do that on my phone.

[slim perch]

red war, shadowkeep, haunted last year

[ruby pivot]

mostly as a ghost i suppose

[slim perch]

and duality in voice

[ruby pivot]

not like an annoying threat like taniks and kelgo

was about to say how about scorn do they have taniks like too but they all kept reviving

[rigid flower]

Ehhhh technically not Shadowkeep.

I don't think they even got the voice actor for Shadowkeep.

He had a much higher pitched voice there.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rd2DqtDQphh8wWayDZA4tXIzUqmCi68P8O6FvjGUOy0/edit?usp=drivesdk

Ah!

There we go.

To whoever reads it, hope you enjoy it.

[ocean oriole]

Anyone know what the liquid is inside of the omolon weapons are is it void solar and ark juice or just colors and same with the newer taraxipod strand scout

[trim grotto]

I actually already answered this for you.

We don't know what the liquid is in great detail. It's clearly energy charged, and it is used as ammo. Perhaps it's a form of non-Newtonian fluid. Can't really say.

[chrome fog]

Animatronics of his likeness
Or clones

[ocean oriole]

Thx sorry I didn't see your answer but thanks

Also I feel like u answer a lot of my dumb questions to do thanks

[vocal imp]

How many war crimes has the guardian committed canonically (this is a joke)

[fresh zephyr]

Does shiro use 2 exotics?

[oblique verge]

Who wana explain more to me

[tawdry mauve]

he is an arc hunter

most likely a blade dancer

and uses the lucky raspberry and tresspasser

[chrome fog]

More of what, we can probably help

[fresh zephyr]

I’ve seen him with a gauntlet that looks similar to mechaneer’s trick sleeves, is he using that?

[tawdry mauve]

no he isnt

[chrome fog]

Probably just one of the blue or green arms

[oblique verge]

@civic pelican, what are u doing in the vc

[civic pelican]

talking

[oblique verge]

Ohh can I join

[tawdry mauve]

this is the lore chat btw

[oblique verge]

My b

Taniks might come back

The time he will come back might be in a season or 2 because Clovis is still alive

[tawdry mauve]

taniks is dead

he only has the scorn and taken card left to play

thats about it

[fresh zephyr]

Does he have a siva form?

[chrome fog]

He did and we killed it

Which is why he had to get resurrected in the DSC raid, in which we killed him again

And like Kuzmo said it’s only if he becomes a Scorn or Taken can he come back

[grand jungle]

lore wise who are the most feard guardian hunters warlocks or titans

[real ingot]

None

[tawdry mauve]

probably warlocks

we dont know

[vocal osprey]

huffing my risen taniks copium like my life depends on it

[tender cove]

oh no, previously on destiny is no longer updated

[analog torrent]

Can guardians feel pain? Gotta hurt being shot in the crucible over and over again right? Or are they just used to it/have a high threshold and/or tolerance?

Is the shield a function of the light, a gameplay mechanic, or something that people wear as defense?

[tawdry mauve]

they can feel pain yes

[fresh zephyr]

The shield is real

the shield that we have literally erases bullets before they hit us

And yes, it gets depleted

[analog torrent]

is it a light thing or a destiny-is-a-sci-fi-place thing

[fiery copper]

Light thing

There's a Green warlock item from vanilla d2 that says something along the lines of

"How does the Light protect us? Bullets strike us and then decide they didn't."

[oblique verge]

U wana vc about lore

[torpid flint]

5 hours later

[chrome fog]

Why are you insistent on going into vc

[chrome fog]

They do feel pain and there is a greater tolerance to pain, but they feel it regardless

[chrome fog]

That is also a possibility after all the other shot of pieces of him still remain

[chrome fog]

Doesn’t really matter because it’s subjective across different people

[regal lichen]

so if the Leviathan was eating nessus, why do we help out calus?

[dim minnow]

1. Nessus was regenerating itself
2. It wasn't until Season of Opulence where we realised that Calus was crazy

and the Vanguard didn't really support Calus at all even from the start

[regal lichen]

so our guardian was just helping calus on their own?

[dim minnow]

Levi was us accepting an invitation from Calus (whether that be for investigating or out of curiosity)
Eater of Worlds started as a Vanguard covert op but then Calus' forces found us and he decided to have us go into the Leviathan's stomach to fix the Vex issue in there
Spire of Stars however, was us intervening against Val Ca'uor's attack on our own accord

[regal lichen]

cant believe the guardian would go against the vanguard

what a jerk

[dim minnow]

at that point Calus wasn't neccessarily considered a threat

the Vanguard just didn't trust him (which they were completely right about)

[slim elk]

Calus was a useful distraction at the time. He kept making Red Legion defect to him and wrecked their Fleet

Better just have the random party cabal make their life difficult then let the Legion focus entirely on us

Course.. now Calus is a tree in Drifters freezer now...

[cosmic lark]

Hold up, is the traveler originate in the garden story true or is it made up by the witness as well?

[slim elk]

Unveiling likely remains true in the general sense, theres just lot of debating going on.

Above all, the Veil predates the Witness, same as the Traveler. So they are entirely seperate from the Witness itself

[chrome fog]

Our curiosity at this point aligned with the Vanguard’s, none of this conflicts with the Vanguard’s goals

[fresh zephyr]

Was there hints showing the witness before BL?

[dim minnow]

the Witness' design was never shown until WQ

[torpid flint]

Now

They have spoken to us all the way back in Shadowkeep

GOS raid ending

[dim minnow]

though at that point we believed it was just the Pyramids

it wasn't until towards the end of Y4 where we start figuring out the existence of something that was revealed to be the Witness in WQ

[ocean oriole]

Oh ok thx and are there any guardians (lore wise) that can use multiple exotics and is it true that in lore a guardian can pop a ark Goldie or a void t crash?

[dim minnow]

neither are confirmed

but given that there are multiple gameplay things that are canon, I would say that Bungie will have an explanation for that eventually

[ocean oriole]

Ok thx

[frail sparrow]

Hey does anyone know why cayde and ikora have such a close relationship

[dim minnow]

both Vanguards

[frail sparrow]

That’s it

[dim minnow]

and Cayde's sociable nature

my guess at least

[frail sparrow]

That can’t be all

[slim elk]

Zavala mentioned back in Red War Cayde and Ikora were his "fireteam", likely ran a few operations together before being Vanguard

[chrome fog]

Alphi Lupi, a couple other lore tabs, and Ahsa both name the Traveler as the Gardener, so there has to be some truth to the origins of her taking the form of the Traveler

[frail sparrow]

Still there has to be more too it

[chrome fog]

There’s hints of Cayde wanting to get closer but either that’s Byf pushing wacky narratives or something else; regardless they never became anything more than just friends

[slim elk]

What more do you want?

[frail sparrow]

I know I just want to know HOW they became friends

[frail sparrow]

I want to know how they are friends I mean a fireteam is something but the relationship they have is a family like one

[chrome fog]

That’s fair; there’s no real details, but we can assume it’s when they became Vanguard together, if not a little bit before that

[frail sparrow]

I mean it seems lazy that bungie just says”oh they were in a fireteam together”and not give any more information

[slim elk]

I think you underestimate the "comrade in arms" phenomenon.

[frail sparrow]

I hope sooner or later we may get new information with the release of tfs

[frail sparrow]

I guess I do but come on it does seem lazy to just say”oh they were in a fireteam together”

[chrome fog]

Probably in TFS since the Memory of Cayde being that’s in the teaser would allow for that relationship to be explored again

[frail sparrow]

Hey I kinda have a theory about tfs might be false but hear me out

You know nightmares invoked by the pyramid ships

I think the traveler creates similar ones but these are more friendly than sinister

[chrome fog]

Nightmares and Memories are more tied into the Darkness, as it is Paracausality affecting memory, consciousness, all that jazz

[slim elk]

Thats likely a failure, we seen that those very same Nightmares already have a "memory" state when they arent trying to haunt and torment others.

When they went blue in Haunted

[frail sparrow]

Yeah your right

[chrome fog]

This dimension beyond the portal, however, could be a world where Light and Darkness meld together and allow for the recreation of a ton of things from out past

[dim minnow]

They have to be form of deepsight

[chrome fog]

I’d go scroll up the channel to present the theory but I’m also very tired and it is 12 midnight

[frail sparrow]

I like to imagine that all of our past enemies and friends are just in it wandering the plane and when we approach them they aren’t hostile and instead just like those npcs in the tower

[chrome fog]

Main thing is this:
Cayde is glowing blue like a Memory with his physical form still cracked, which could imply that this dimension has given the Memory of Cayde a physical form via the Light

[slim elk]

Its also noteworthy that Ikora is treating that Cayde as the real deal in the trailer, when we know the Nightmares are "fakes"

Toland was running around the Moon at the same time Eris was being tormented by a Nightmare of him

[frail sparrow]

Well ikora and cayde were very close friends

[frail sparrow]

Wait that nightmare hovering over Eris is toland

[torpid flint]

Yup

[chrome fog]

I would think that’s be true, as the Memory of a being will be true to how they were in life

[torpid flint]

You never did that quest in Shadowkeep did you?

[frail sparrow]

No😞

[torpid flint]

one of the nightmares we had to cleanse was Toland(tho I wished we had just killed the actual Toland)

[frail sparrow]

Btw is my username okay

[torpid flint]

Uhhh

Yes?

[frail sparrow]

I mean the more I read it the more it sound. Well messed up kinda

[chrome fog]

I get it, but there might be some better wordings to account for the more vile members of the server

[frail sparrow]

Yeah I’m going to fix that

[torpid flint]

cough Off topic chat cough

[torpid flint]

Barney, Kell of Chips

[frail sparrow]

What? Also is this okay now

Also is it true that the vanguard had to put up a rule telling guardians to not jump over the wall

[torpid flint]

Pretty sure that’s just a meme

But there is lore surrounding guardians jumping off the Tower, into Titan’s seas, etc

[frail sparrow]

If it is true I like to imagine they have a bet of who can survive the longest before having to have their ghost revive them

[slim elk]

Dont forget the time we went full anime and rode a crashing space station armed with nuclear warheads into Europa

[frail sparrow]

My lawyer has advised me to not talk about that incident any further

[slim elk]

And then theres the time its heavily implied Savathun kidnapped us, loaded us into a cannon and fired us back into Mars

Anyway, seasonal story seems like it will wrap up tomorrow.. then a month of dead air

[rich veldt]

nah there will probably be a finale aswell

[devout nimbus]

Does an exo that hasn't been reset called exoname or exoname-0

Or 1

[slim perch]

was clovis bray's "they know" from seraph just a message to the witness?

[trim grotto]

1

0 is the human, 1 is the first Exo iteration

[trim grotto]

Probably a message to himself, on Europa.

[devout nimbus]

Alright, thanks

[slim perch]

what this symbols

[sick yew]

From the research division on Titan I think

[grand jungle]

Oryx vs Rhulk

[sick yew]

Me

I win

Rhulk probably

[jolly vector]

oryx is way way weaker than rhulk its not even fair

funny how rhulk was a lot less of a threat to us tho vs oryx at the time

[sick yew]

Because he was a raid boss and a raid boss only

Would have been interesting to have him as an expansion villain

[ember storm]

honestly I’m willing to debate that oryx has a solid chance

[jolly vector]

would be extremely cool to just see more of the disciples when we go get witness next year

like have them blocking us from getting to him

[jolly vector]

idk

oryx took a while to even kill a normal worm god

rhulk fucked the mother of the worm god

[sick yew]

As long as they dont end up as pointless and underutilized as the Barons

[jolly vector]

its still powering his pyramid ship when we did vow raid

[sick yew]

Whisper of the (Worm) Mother

New gun

[jolly vector]

I guess at the time oryx was in his final stand already after we destroyed his form outside of the throne world so he have more precautions up

while rhulk was being stupid dumbass and play around for a while until we figure out how to just kill him

[sick yew]

Rhulk was just overconfident making it feel all the cooler to slap him into the afterlife

[jolly vector]

I think I read some where the whisper gun is still sentient

like we didn't really killed the worm on titan

[torpid flint]

It’s literally Xol

[ember storm]

that’s the thing

[torpid flint]

Whisper of the Worm is literally Xol

[ember storm]

Rhulk’s power has been static

[sick yew]

Of course
Xol literally wanted us to get him as a gun

He also talks to us during the Whisper mission

[ember storm]

he was basically the same since he became a disciple

[jolly vector]

cool cus at the time I didnt know what the hell was happening

[fiery copper]

Lambda

Greek letter

[torpid flint]

I can guess at some point, Oryx could have surpassed him

[fiery copper]

It's from titan yeah

[slim perch]

yeah i know what it looks like i was wondering what it stood for/came from

[jolly vector]

welp all we can do is just speculate I guess

[ember storm]

remember the main reason we even touched Rhulk was because he let it happen

[fiery copper]

Also more commonly known as "the thing from half life"

[ember storm]

he just didn’t care we were hurting him because he underestimated us

he would severely underestimate oryx

[slim perch]

not really

rhulk knows oryx probably

and has seen

[jolly vector]

actually I mean

[sick yew]

λ

[fiery copper]

3

[ember storm]

he took a direct involvement in the hive’s creation

[jolly vector]

rhulk get trapped by savathun too lmao

[fiery copper]

[ember storm]

they would be literal insects to him

[jolly vector]

I think he is just a huge dumbass

so much power but no brain

[ember storm]

meanwhile Rhulk was under the impression we were coming to his pyramid to try and join the witness

he knew why the witness was interested in us

[fiery copper]

Rhulk didn't spec into Magic Defense before taking on the dungeon solely occupied by mages

[sick yew]

Rhulk already had a gift basket ready for us and we just started blasting :(

[fiery copper]

Rookie mistake

[fiery copper]

He even welcomed us to his house and our first instinct was to shoot his pillars, kill his science experiment, fuck with his carefully curated museum, and then act surprised when he tries to (literally) kick us out

[chrome fog]

Rhulk really said “Really? In front of my abominations?”

[sick yew]

"Fr?! Infront of the Upended?!?!"

[jolly vector]

I guess in term of pure strength rhulk might still be alot better, he lived for way longer after all, and took down the mother worm without sweat

but then oryx even with how weak he was he found a way to kill the strongest worm

so like its just a matter in term of wits now imh

and from how it looks rhulk is big stupid

[fiery copper]

It makes me laugh that rhulk waltzed into fundament, beat up the worm gods, and took their mom, who now lives with him. The disrespect is unreal, and he now has a free pass on Your Mother jokes

[sick yew]

I mean it depends who the writers want to win

Always has been the rule in fiction

You can have a single ant win against the Witness if you so want to

[fiery copper]

Power scaling raid bosses is dumb because that's not the story bungie wants to tell. We canonically kill all of them, raid difficulty is not canon so we have no real way of measuring their power.

[ember storm]

the immortal snail

[sick yew]

We, the Guardians have always and will always be the strongest beings in the universe as long as the plot demands us to be such

[ember storm]

wins every time

[fiery copper]

The Witness IS the immortal snail for the traveler

[ember storm]

that’s an insult to the snail

[jolly vector]

just wait until I work for bungo and rewrite the story to make us lose in final shape and end destiny 2 story there

no more grinds no more destiny just marathon

[sick yew]

The only thing you can scale entities in Destiny is against Guardians who will win every time because we're the players

[fiery copper]

I would rejoice, it means I am FORCED to not spend any more money

[sick yew]

The Final Shape is the Destiny logo

Watch me be right next year

[fiery copper]

I mean

It is a rounded triangle

I just had this thought and now I'm mad it isn't what we got

[sick yew]

Traveler in the middle and reformed pyramids around it fused together or some shit

[fiery copper]

The Witness' veil portal should have been the destiny logo

[sick yew]

The Portal isnt the Final Shape

its a portal

[fiery copper]

Yeah I know

[sick yew]

The final shape still awaits

Watch it be Cayde

[fiery copper]

It would've been really cool to go

"Oh my god, the logo was the symbol of our greatest defeat"

[sick yew]

Who knows whats to come in FS

Maybe we get our ass kicked even harder

[fiery copper]

Imma keep it 100% I am shooting Ghost Cayde in the fucken forehead the first chance I get

[sick yew]

Same

Stab him with his own horn

[fiery copper]

Do the Ghost Glitch where you spam tab and mouse1 to shoot your gun in a safe zone

[torpid flint]

Buddy, you’re just gonna spend money on marathon

[sick yew]

As soon as he shows up imma send him to meet the Gardener

[torpid flint]

Nah

He gon meet the universe itself

[fiery copper]

I have no interest whatsoever

Well

Maybe a little

I always wanted to try tarkov but never did, if marathon is free then I'll download it just to see what it's like

[sick yew]

Artstyle looks sick
Rest no one can comment on

[fiery copper]

I'm gonna comment on it, fuck you

[sick yew]

No gameplay no opinion

[blazing wasp]

the traveler is running away from the immortal snail, thats why it keeps leaving

[fiery copper]

General gameplay is good, gunplay is nowhere close to the same level as destiny (its still great, just it doesn't quite meet the INCREDIBLY HIGH bar)

Story is... about the level of vanilla d1. Nothing is explained, but the offscreen lore is phenomenal

[fiery copper]

I am ungovernable

Cry about it

[sick yew]

!help ban

[dense pike]

!ban <user> <reason>

Permanently bans a user from the server.

[sick yew]

wanna reconsider that

[fiery copper]

Do it coward

(Dont)

(Pls)

[sick yew]

You entertain me so you may stay

!feed @fiery copper

[dense pike]

feeding trans wrongs, crimes even 55 units of ether

[sick yew]

Now do the funny dance

[fiery copper]

Me and the moderator I pulled by being a silly goofster

[sick yew]

Lmfao

[fiery copper]

one singular naenae into the worst footwork you've ever seen

[sick yew]

Good

Now lets discuss how I am literally canon in Destiny

[fiery copper]

Hey if reed-7 can be canon, you can be too

[sick yew]

Im not joking

Investigator Maier of the Future War Cult

Bro is literally me

[torpid flint]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-popcorn-needs-all-around-free-entertainment-gif-13578134

[sick yew]

Bro shows up in the Salvagers loretab

[fiery copper]

Oh my god it's real

[sick yew]

Why would I lie

[fiery copper]

Because it's one of those things someone would say as a joke

[sick yew]

Also charge yo phone

[torpid flint]

Ahh yes a mod from the game yooo

[fiery copper]

Like "my uncle is John Gamecube"

[sick yew]

kek

[torpid flint]

“My grandpa is John Wick”

[fiery copper]

You know what, just because you said that, I'm going out for the day without doing that.

(I have a portable battery pack I can use)

[torpid flint]

L

Imagine

[fiery copper]

I dont have to imagine

This bad boy can fit 12,000 mili amps

Bonus toe reveal

[torpid flint]

Real question is when I get Paragon back, how long do I keep it?

lmao

[blazing wasp]

forever, until you lose it

so

give or take 3 days

[fiery copper]

Seeing how you lost it once already, I think you know the answer.

[torpid flint]

Listen man, it was for the FUNNY

[torpid flint]

… sounds about right

[fiery copper]

Ah in that case I can't judge you

The Funny is supreme

[torpid flint]

I could’ve opened up a ticket like months ago and got it back but ehh, who cares

Lore of my life

[slim elk]

Warlock needs tech support

[fiery copper]

Since we have a mod here I have a question

[sick yew]

Depends on the question you might ask it in a ticket

[torpid flint]

Perhaps

[fiery copper]

You have a rule for paragon where you can't have any strikes "on your record"

[sick yew]

Correct

[fiery copper]

#✅welcome-and-rules also says a strike remains "on your record" for 4 months.

[torpid flint]

wait

So did i have to wait 4 months? Instead of 6?

[sick yew]

6 months

[torpid flint]

I’m not confused

[fiery copper]

Does that mean you can apply for paragon after your last strike falls off?

[sick yew]

A strike remains on your log for 6 months

[fiery copper]

I may be stupid

[sick yew]

After which it expires

[torpid flint]

We all are

[fiery copper]

Ok re-read my question but swap out 4 for 6

[sick yew]

Reading never was d2 players strong suit

[fiery copper]

Do those things interact with each other in the way that I think they do?

[torpid flint]

Explain lore chat’s existence?

[sick yew]

that being?

[torpid flint]

He’s asking if you can get paragon back immediately after 6 months

[fiery copper]

Can you apply for paragon after all your previous strikes have expired? Or does any strike in the past disqualify you regardless of how long ago

[sick yew]

If you only have one active strike and it expires you become eligible for paragon again

[fiery copper]

She but yea

Ahh

[sick yew]

Past strikes impact it as long as theyre active

[torpid flint]

just gotta wait…

[sick yew]

After the 6 months you may apply for paragon again

[fiery copper]

What if you hypothetically have 2 and then wait the 12 months for them to both expire

[sick yew]

No

Each strike has its own timer

[fiery copper]

12 months stacked on top of each other

[sick yew]

Again no

[torpid flint]

I’ll be Paragone in about 3 days after

[sick yew]

If you get a strike on the 1st January and another one on the 3rd of Febuary
The first strike expires on the 1st of June
And the 2nd strike expires at the 1st of July

@fiery copper

[fiery copper]

Yeah

12 months stacked on top of each other

Or I guess

2x6 months

Also I'm sorry for starting an off topic discussion

#☀️off-topic-discussion is moving way too fast and you were already here

[sick yew]

Its alright