i understood <1% of that electroniccat
#general
jovial plover
jovial plover
spaming alt tab is fun
thorny jolt
But I get the error. It occurs when I do nothing with redis.
golden gust
PING
thorny jolt
Like if I go to sleep in the evening and come back in the morning this error is here.
golden gust
Well, that's the keepalive
thorny jolt
But what I should I do to fix it. I am relatively new in working with redis.
golden gust
idk how redis deals with timeouts, but, you probs wanna look into that, and make sure that your connector uses a much shorter time to send the keepalive
otherwise, potentially network issues, etc
drifting path
change your timeout time to be longer
if you also want another tip
move to using another library else than redisson
lettuce or jedis
both are way simpler and have way more detailed docs as well as reported issues with fixes
easier to work with
I can sponfeed you with an util class on lettuce if you want
works just fine
thorny jolt
I can sponfeed you with an util class on lettuce if you want
That would be very nice π
drifting path
send me a dm
fallen grotto
π€¦ββοΈ
it works now that these are at source and not destination
damn hetzner only allows 10 firewall rules
fallen grotto
i thought they'd allow more :/
stuck lava
gotta pay for cisco ig
stuck lava
not really
more like... we give u 20 rules
if u want more order dedicated fw
not to mention "free" rules would usually skip checks on internal traffic etc
and then u have ppl buying dedis within same dc/host and doing ddos attacks within internal networks
etc
errant bridge
Does that actually make it so that unsigned messages can't be sent ? From the sound of it it only enforces that the player have a public key upon connecting, not that they use it to sign all of their messages... I guess you might have to make a plugin to enforce that kind of stuff (although considering that stuff like /say is apparently not signed so that one can't be manipulated into automatically sending a bannable message by clicking on a sign I'd figure it'd be very easy to get around anyway unless you restrict those capabilities...)
stuck lava
a lot of stuff isn't signed
now think about all the servers using custom chat plugins
etc
mental meadow
It makes that you can't join if you don't have signatures
jovial plover
@thorny jolt u just leaked ur ip
errant bridge
It makes that you can't join if you don't have signatures
yeah but does it enforce anything after connecting ?
stuck lava
but all non-cracked 1.19+ should have signatures? at least vanilla clients?
golden gust
if the profile has signatures it validates stuff
errant bridge
but in that case it seems as though a malicious actor would just have to make it so that chat messages are rewritten as /say [message] 
thorny jolt
<@283951710559404033> u just leaked ur ip
I think it got deleted. I cannot find the message anymore. π€
golden gust
vanilla commands which send messages are signed
we're aiming to extend that to plugins but it will be opt-in
some will, some won't, but, like, your server, do what you want, we don't care
errant bridge
vanilla commands which send messages are signed
can't a sign make a player send a /say though ? I thought they'd changed it so it can't make you send a normal chat message for the purpose of avoiding spoofed chat messages...
jovial plover
You can abuse this system to fucking shit
stuck lava
I'm kinda lost now tho... what's the point? Why would the server enable secure profiles? I mean what's the problem being solved here?
just server trying to ditch bad players and that's it?
golden gust
yes
jovial plover
/sudo user c:rule breaking messafe
stuck lava
π
jovial plover
BANNED!!11
golden gust
if you think sudo would work for that you're a moron
jovial plover
Why
void void
do you really think they didn't think of that?
golden gust
because sudo doesnt send a command from the client
jovial plover
I mean, the current system can be abused by that
golden gust
it would just come from the server
jovial plover
And tellraw
void void
no it can't
golden gust
No, it literally can't
void void
you can only report signed messages
sharp basalt
how to use hex color code in paper.yml? (i'm on paper 1.18.2)
visual egret
server authentication: in order to verify you are not a bot, please type <insert bannable message>
errant bridge
oops i was cleaning my keyboard lol
visual egret
how to use hex color code in `paper.yml`? (i'm on paper 1.18.2)
minimessage iirc?
errant bridge
server authentication: in order to verify you are not a bot, please type <insert...
I mean that's gonna be very unlikely to work
golden gust
for 1.18, no
visual egret
but i dont know if, or when they implemented that
jovial plover
server authentication: in order to verify you are not a bot, please type <insert...
L M A O
golden gust
would use md's weird ass & format if it supports that
golden gust
no
jovial plover
bedrock*
visual egret
always wondered why it used &
golden gust
legacy chat colors used the section symbol
visual egret
instead of Β§
jovial plover
Bedrock colour codes are Β§
golden gust
Because & is on the standard keyboard
visual egret
fair
sharp basalt
in paper.yml, color like &f works
vernal moth
Vanilla doesn't support the section sign anymore either
sharp basalt
but &#FFFFFF didn't work
golden gust
It's easy to write a pretty util which just converts whatever character you want to a section symbol, community settled on & as a standard thing
xRRBBGG
with an & before each one
vernal moth
Paper.yml supports MiniMessage so who even cares
visual egret
Vanilla doesn't support the section sign anymore either
really? has it actually happned?
golden gust
&# is the one used by literally everybody bar md
vernal moth
Yes, like a decade ago @visual egret
jovial plover
"thisisafuckingcolourc"
golden gust
well, section symbol is deprecated in vanilla and has been since 1.7.2, mojang no longer uses it in the server but the client still parses it for now
void void
no
jovial plover
Ok
vernal moth
Anyways, am alive again, currently trying to recover last night's memory
jovial plover
Ok
visual egret
this is why alcohol is bad
vernal moth
Apperently I did 14k steps already so that's cool?
vernal moth
Hey, my PO was there with me the whole night, she supervised me
jovial plover
moderation doesn't exist in russia
golden gust
Russia exists on a simple concept
visual egret
you can legally drink in england at the age of 5
jovial plover
WHAT
golden gust
if you don't stop drinking potato juice, you don't get a hangover
vernal moth
Russia is a good topic, i recall at some point the bar ran out of sprite or lemon or anything to mix vodka with so we had to choose between vodka and coke or just vodka, lol
visual egret
in slavic countries the law doesnt matter
jovial plover
Russia should not exist.
coarse venture
ew politicz
vernal moth
You don't get a hangover with enough training
golden gust
ah, yea, adventure
vernal moth
Use <#RRGGBB>
vernal moth
Consider updating ^^
sharp basalt
it looks like paper 1.18.2 didn't support MiniMessage now
vernal moth
Yeah it was added to the config with 1.19
sharp basalt
yeah, but i'm waiting 1.19 is stable enough
jovial plover
also yeah, you're allowed to drink on private property at the age of 5
?!
visual egret
can't buy alcohol until 16/18 though
jovial plover
16
golden gust
16 with a meal
sharp basalt
i mean, minecraft 1.19.1 is planning release these days, maybe i'll update server when 1.19.2 out
i mean when minecraft itself is stable enough
i'lll consider to update
visual egret
didn't look into the 16/18 because it doesn't affect me π
wet storm
Anyways, am alive again, currently trying to recover last night's memory
ok. hangar wen?
jovial plover
I'm not updating
visual egret
i doubt paper would release an unstable piece of software
sharp basalt
thank you guys! wish you have a nice day
vernal moth
visual egret
update on a backup and see if it works
vernal moth
Lol this pic
golden gust
vernal moth
Also, there were drones
jovial plover
Sussy
golden gust
ofc there was
jovial plover
Baka
vernal moth
They had to cancel the first attempt cause the drones were more drunk and I was
primal solar
Russia is a good topic, i recall at some point the bar ran out of sprite or lemo...
Rum with coke >>
golden gust
huggles his bottle of captian morgans
primal solar
Sucky bar
vernal moth
Lol flashback to when I drank a whole bottle of captain for this new years eve
That was a fun night
vernal moth
Here you can buy and drink beer and whine with 16 rest with 18
But parents can do whatever I think
golden gust
Yes
visual egret
1am voice messages from my friends after drinking 5 shots of vodka
those were cursed
golden gust
Like, nobody really cares about the 5 year thing either
jovial plover
Parents can drug u ffs
visual egret
doesn't mention parents :)
jovial plover
I mean they cant
primal solar
But parents can do whatever I think
This can go wrong in so many ways lol
visual egret
but basically, if you're over 5, and you legally obtain a bottle of vodka, you can drink it
golden gust
Well, child endangerment comes into play
jovial plover
Yt > twitch
jovial plover
but basically, if you're over 5, and you legally obtain a bottle of vodka, you c...
LMAO
errant bridge
those are the rules
that law feels a bit weird lol
jovial plover
"legally obtain" aka someone gives it to u
errant bridge
but then again most countries don't have any restrictions so technically a 3 year old could drink
void void
in private contexts, yes
errant bridge
(although child endangerment could come into play ofc but there's no specific law w.r.t. young children getting alcohol privately in most places)
wet storm
Russia should not exist.
π₯Ί
jovial plover
pov: someone gives u it in an alleyway
wet storm
fuck, it is 29Β°C outside and I am dying, do you guys have high temperature?
oblique lava
will paper have an option to disable the signed chat feature or should i do it myself
mental meadow
You shouldn't disable it in the first place
mental meadow
well, your broken environment, not mine^^
vernal moth
Good luck when the day comes where Mojang defaults the hide unsecure messages option
wet storm
fuck, it is 29Β°C outside and I am dying, do you guys have high temperature?
bruh, I had candy in my pocket and it melted π
void void
how do i get the <#506018400078659585> role?
you send a pic in here and aurora decides whether your cat is worthy :P
wet storm
Any one piece fans here? Wanna see how it is popular in papermc...
oblique lava
Good luck when the day comes where Mojang defaults the hide unsecure messages op...
there will be mods
maybe everyone will start hosting cracked servers one day, who knows
wet storm
installing a mod is harder than turning on an option in the settings, but ao a few people will actually know about it
mental meadow
then I can finally rest in peace and this discord is empty
primal solar
There is already a mod for the chat signing thing and it isnt even a released feature yet
oblique lava
what was the server software called, the completely rewritten one and doesnt have any code from nms
primal solar
then I can finally rest in peace and this discord is empty
We would never put you through that
You are gonna grow old and frail here
fallen grotto
that's new to me, pay for firewall rules. O_o
you can't even pay for them at hetzner, they just have a limit
which i find kinda weird
golden gust
Not really a surprise
fallen grotto
10 isn't a lot tho
golden gust
Like, the firewall needs to resolve all those rules
mental meadow
They have a limit of firewall rules for their network, you can still do whatever on your server
golden gust
too many rules would kill the network performance
fallen grotto
well yeah but that means i
wait maybe i can do port1,port2 idk
for Minecraft i have 25565-25665, ig i could just put dynmap in that range of ports too then
and any other thing
mental meadow
Just use your server firewall for stuff like that
fallen grotto
but i still have to make a firewall rule to allow traffic through those ports?
like if i don't say i allow 25565-25665, the ports will be closed with whatever i do on the server no?
golden gust
firewalls are generally allow by default
fallen grotto
disable the firewall 
coarse venture
back with lunch snacks
lavish compass
Why don't you just firewall on your machine using nftables/iptables/eBPF/whatever?
lavish compass
10 isn't a lot tho
As mentioned by elctro, too many rules will kill network performance
Assuming they have hardware firewall, it's probably shared by dozens of other machines/customers
limber knotBOT
I mean just block everything and only open certain ports that you actually need, isn't that how you normally setup firewalls?
fallen grotto
Why don't you just firewall on your machine using nftables/iptables/eBPF/whateve...
But i still have to allow those ports through hetzner's firewall settings in order to use those?
or not?
fallen grotto
yes
but they only have 10 rules, i should just make one with a big range of ports then?
lavish compass
What do you even need to expose
fallen grotto
dynmap and Minecraft servers for now
lavish compass
Easiest would be to allow everything (on hetzner) and configure firewall on your server
fallen grotto
that's still secure?
lavish compass
(assuming you know how to do it on your server properly)
fallen grotto
isn't it pretty easy with something like ufw
lavish compass
that's still secure?
yes, if you know what you do
lavish compass
isn't it pretty easy with something like ufw
correct
mental meadow
The hetzner firewall isn't even active by default
You have to manually activate it
lavish compass
firewall is one thing, you should also bind properly
f.ex don't bind postgres/mariadb/etc to 0.0.0.0
fallen grotto
The hetzner firewall isn't even active by default
oh
someone else may've done that
lavish compass
and apply authentication accordingly, eg. sshd, databases, etc
firewall is just another layer of protection, but the most important is the application itself
limber knotBOT
realistically speaking you only need 2 ports, maybe 3 or 4 open anyways (ssh, Minecraft, webserver, vpn if you need to share data between machines)
lavish compass
well if you're serious about security, don't open ssh to public internet 
lavish compass
have a hardened server/jump host/bastion server on your VLAN instead /s
golden gust
all fun and games until you're stuck miles away and forget about that ;P
fallen grotto
I think i'm going to have to lookup some information on firewalls and such to be sure I'm not doing insecure things lol
golden gust
I mean, zerotier is love, zerotier is life
lavish compass
you should also verify that your firewall actually work by using stuff like nmap
golden gust
realistically the big thing is keeping your eye on what's exposed to the web
lsof -i | grep LISTEN
(there is probs a nicer way to do that)
lavish compass
netstat -nlp
golden gust
configure stuff which doesn't need to be public to not be public, etc
firewalls are generally great for much stupid stuff but generally shouldn't be your main line of defence here
lavish compass
^
ashen cliff
I mean, zerotier is love, zerotier is life
Zerotier is weird for me, but it does work.
It hates my double LAN connections on one computer.
On the other one, I'm forced to run the Win 7 version. 
coarse venture
lsof -iTCP -sTCP:LISTEN -n -P
or .. less nicer .. complicate your life ^
golden gust
you mean double NAT?
ashen cliff
Nope.
coarse venture
double LANNAT
golden gust
oh, two lan's?
Like, idk how that would bork unless you did a dum
but, god knows, I've had ZT do some weird shit
ashen cliff
So, 1x Intel Lan, WiFi and a 2x 10Gbps bridge.
golden gust
but, it's yet to fuck up like hamachi did
ashen cliff
Hamachi.
lavish compass
There's Tailscale
limber knotBOT
main issue I have with zerotier under windows is that it used to create a new network interface on each start... dunno if they fixed that yet lol
ashen cliff
Yeah, still happens.
tropic flame
never had problems with Hamachi
golden gust
I had hamachi completely kill internet routing
limber knotBOT
haven't used hamachi in 15 years or so lol
we usually just use zerotier when a game only supports lan multiplayer π
coarse venture
never used it.
golden gust
well, was my siblings PC, not mine
avoided it to all hell myself, generally as I always ended up with access to the thing to just port forward
mild rune
I remember using hamachi because my friends could never figure out port forwarding
tropic flame
I might just use Radmin in the future if i ever need LAN but Hamachi was fine to me
just the 5-user-per-room limit sucked kinda
a friend of mine could never get it to work tho and idk why, even after telling him to start windows with "allow unsigned drivers" 
minor fossil
crystal lilyBOT
frank otter
you might be looking for that?
magic river
You know, it's pretty crazy to think about how we used to shoot a particle accelerator at our face several hours every day
Until LCDs got cheap enough to replace them
golden gust
ah, yes, the radiation king
dusky stump
You know, it's pretty crazy to think about how we used to shoot a particle accel...
to be fair once the electrons hit the phosphor most of the energy is converted to light and secondary electrons are collected at the anode i think
anything that uses that division symbol is automatically registered in my head as one of those "hard" facebook math questions
and if you wanna get really pedantic
without further context, it's safe to equate "x" with "X" as an typographic error or autocorrect error
magic river
If you push past the x vs X bullshit he'll next ding you on the uncommon "implicit multiplication" rule which he also didn't tell you he was using
dusky stump
furthermore, it's a safe assumption to say that the first clause "6Γ·2(1+2) = x" and what is the numerical value of X" are related statements
without establishing that we're using roman numerals in conjunction with arithmetic algebra (which is just.. why?), it's safe to assume that X does not refer to its roman numeral
lavish compass
funny man
dusky stump
in one context, "e" = 2.7183, while in another similar context, "e" = 1.6*10^-19 C
"what is the value of this expression?" and "6Γ·2(1+2) = x, what is the numerical value of X?" are logically equivalent questions
lavish compass
what's the first 2 decimals of ln(2)
dusky stump
ln2
molten egret
Maybe they mean a jfr?
A .jr file is an optimized jar file with no structure all things are moved to the default package :)
void void
||meow meow||
warm anchor
Whoever was the VA does a really good job
magic river
golden gust
ofc
lavish compass
warm anchor
Perfection
lavish compass
Deploy to prod? @mental meadow
mental meadow
perfect
unkempt jackal
my graphing calculator won't give me 10 digits
lavish compass
too bad, calculate it yourself
jovial plover
Hey! Does anyone know of a Intel core i5-i7 laptop or desktop with 8gb ram and 256gb+ storage for under Β£300
lavish compass
does it have to be intel
magic river
Get lucky with an ebay find, basically
lavish compass
and price will be quite different from laptop vs desktop
jovial plover
does it have to be intel
Preferably
magic river
No one is going to be selling those new or reconditioned for those prices
lavish compass
I'm not sure why you want intel though (unless it's newer gens, but that'll cost more than your budget)
jovial plover
I mean I've only ever used Intel cpus
magic river
Unless by i5 you mean you'd be okay with a Nehalem CPU, you could probably find some of those cheap assuming any still run π
lavish compass
In this case AMD cpus will probably be better for your money
jovial plover
Idk what nehalem is
magic river
Nehalem came out in 2008, that's first gen i5
golden gust
I mean, if you can't ebay, you'd be better off looking at local market places, etc
but, like, as said, your budget kinda sucks
lavish compass
but generally laptops/desktops at 300 wont get you far unless you're very lucky
and 8GB of ram is very little for today's standards
golden gust
at 300 you place yourself, at new, into the range of the ultra crappy "get one for your kiddos when you send them to college!" range
magic river
I've found some surprisingly powerful laptops for $200-300 on ebay before
magic river
They were always like a few years old but still powerful
You just have to dig through it and get lucky
golden gust
I mean, you're 2.7G into cache
magic river
I don't think the 2.7G cache counts for the 11.8G
lavish compass
IntelliJ IDEA π
magic river
IDEA, a web browser (especially if it's Chrome), and a few Electron apps and suddenly you're using more than 8G
Although the browser and Electron apps also scale their memory usage to how much RAM you have, to some extent
mental meadow
can we make a thing like Spigot does with their CLA? But instead of having to sign it to get access to the repo you'd have to sign it to get access to legacy
half escarp
is microsoft gonna filter server chat for real?
mental meadow
no...
lavish compass
Sign with 0.05ETH to get access to legacy
half escarp
i knew it was stupid false news
mental meadow
https://twitter.com/aurora_smiles_/status/1540309676713205760
https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/7149823936781
read those two links
Twitter
ripe sphinx
nope
magic river
Your messages are signed with a key only your account has
Only Microsoft could fake them
magic river
There is also a chat filtering system in Minecraft though, that's a thing
half escarp
hm, modifying client works?
lavish compass
magic river
No, you can't modify your client to fake someone else's messages
Unless you also have their username and password
half escarp
no i mean not to get reported π
magic river
No, if you send an invalid signature with your message the server will reject it
(and I think kick you)
lavish compass
You can disable signing messages on client side, yes but then servers may not accept your connection or message
void void
Make sure itβs different every time
mental meadow
And reports are only available for correctly signed messages
magic river
Pretty sure the server currently doesn't allow you to send an unsigned message
lavish compass
^
void void
Make sure itβs different every time
And make it move so photomath canβt focus
magic river
Even if previews are disabled every message still gets signed
Previews are just the only way for the server to modify the message while keeping it signed
little frost
Pretty sure the server currently doesn't allow you to send an unsigned message
isnt it like a server.properties thing
lavish compass
but modifying server + client should work lmfao
Yes, that's possible
lavish compass
You can make it so that the server doesn't relay signed messages
magic river
I thought the only thing in server.properties was whether or not to do previews
ripe sphinx
I mean serverside yeah you can do stuff to prevent it, but I forsee mojang doing EULA changes to prevent you from doing that for public servers
mental meadow
the server setting is enforce-secure-profiles which allows only people with a correct mojang signed public key to join
little frost
oh okay
magic river
Wait isn't that just another wording for online-mode?
mental meadow
No
Older clients/versions or modded clients are online but might strip those signatures
ripe sphinx
online mode requires auth, secure profiles also requires shit to be signed
magic river
Oh, this is so ViaBackwards can still work
mental meadow
basically
magic river
I'm surprised they bothered
mental meadow
and it also allows mods to theoretically strip signatures if that setting is not enabled
molten egret
Does the server also send the original message as meta data?
magic river
Does 1.19.1 still require a resource pack to change chat formatting?
lavish compass
no
mental meadow
yesn't
lavish compass
if preview is enabled, then server will send a formatted message that client will sign before sending
mental meadow
Vanilla yes iirc, but we are not Vanilla
magic river
Does the server also send the original message as meta data?
The server sends display name, team display name, and the signed message. If the server modified that message (via the preview system) then it won't be the original
mental meadow
someone should make a nice flowchart
magic river
The client has a format string (something like %{team} <%{displayName}> %{message}) it uses to assemble those three pieces in to a line in chat
lavish compass
I should make one
mental meadow
I wanna put it under my tweets if you make one :D
half escarp
so guys microsoft has a key, and client has it, when it sends a message it uses smth like sha256 with it and all clients receive it, when we report microsoft can use the hash signature to confirm if its real right?
magic river
Vanilla yes iirc, but we are not Vanilla
That's not changing chat formatting then, that's sending system messages that look like chat π
lavish compass
so guys microsoft has a key, and client has it, when it sends a message it uses ...
almost correct
mental meadow
That's not changing chat formatting then, that's sending system messages that lo...
Yes, right now we are doing exactly that
half escarp
i mean if it was correct i could fake the hash signature :))
magic river
If you figure out how to fake that let me know, I want to rob the world blind before the NSA murders us
lavish compass
when you send a message to the server, message gets signed with RSA+SHA256 signature scheme
half escarp
im trying to discover if microsoft did a mistake somehow, its all curiousity
lavish compass
would be real funny if they did
mental meadow
god if you figure out how to fake that the internet will go down
ripe sphinx
you have a private key issued by mojang to sign it, other people can verify using a public key
slate owl
someone told me here how to install paper 1.19 Minecraft on a vps server but i forgot
mental meadow
Mojangs devs generally know what they are doing, and generally if there is a flaw in the implementation that will get immediately spotted in snapshots
lavish compass
So each message gets signed using a salt, uuid, timestamp, and the actual message itself in json
magic river
Surely you sign the hash
mental meadow
I'm just glad they are not using md5 to hash things
half escarp
you have a private key issued by mojang to sign it, other people can verify usin...
so server can confirm if the signature matches?
slate owl
someone told me here how to install paper 1.19 Minecraft on a vps server but i forgot, how to install?
half escarp
i was thinking of signing "hello" but the actual message actually swearing xd
magic river
Ok yeah so they feed the message, salt, timestamp, and player UUID into sha256 then sign the result with RSA
ripe sphinx
well no the signature matching the message is incredibly easy to checkk
magic river
i was thinking of signing "hello" but the actual message actually swearing xd
Server will reject the message (and kick you) due to invalid signature
ripe sphinx
that's the entire bloody point
mental meadow
someone told me here how to install paper 1.19 Minecraft on a vps server but i f...
same as on any other system?
slate owl
same as on any other system?
and that is how?
wet storm
I'm just glad they are not using md5 to hash things
they can't because md5 is too busy with spigot /s
half escarp
well no the signature matching the message is incredibly easy to checkk
yeah as soon as the server has the rsa public key right?
mental meadow
and that is how?
download the jar, run it, done^^
slate owl
what folder?
magic river
Or, if the server passes it through, the client has an option to ignore messages with missing or invalid signatures and also spams the console every time one of those messages shows up
slate owl
or where
mental meadow
whereever you want it
jovial plover
Doesn't matter
slate owl
whereever you want it
okay ^^ thanks
lavish compass
I recommend learning Linux system administration basics first if you haven't already
ripe sphinx
yeah as soon as the server has the rsa public key right?
yeah the public key is by definition public (easily accessible from mojang's web API), so it's trivial to check a signature
half escarp
ok but 1 thing this means... PlayerChatEvent won't be able to change message anymore
right?
magic river
okay ^^ thanks
magic river
ok but 1 thing this means... PlayerChatEvent won't be able to change message any...
Right
half escarp
too bad for chat plugins
mental meadow
The plan is to have some sort of API that allows things and work with the preview system but we wanted to wait and see what md5 does
magic river
The ideal design would be for PreviewEvent to modify it and then the server saves the result of the last preview event modification and uses that for a read-only ChatEvent
ripe sphinx
once Paper figures out API anyways, currently it still works as normal and just doesn't send signed messages to clients
mental meadow
right now every message is send as a system message
ripe sphinx
well s/normal/before
stuck lava
once they add more api it's gonna be fun
half escarp
is server unable to re-sign the message?
stuck lava
we could sign/check only every other msg?
lavish compass
ripe sphinx
bluetree: that would defeat the point
lavish compass
This happens if you send an invalid message to the server
stuck lava
or if(rand.getNextBoolean()) etc...
ripe sphinx
the point of signing is to confirm that a client sent a message
lavish compass
is server unable to re-sign the message?
No, only the player and mojang have access to the private key
half escarp
yeah that makes sense
ripe sphinx
this is to prevent the servers from faking that someone sent a message
lavish compass
half escarp
because if server has it it would be a security issue
half escarp
this is to prevent the servers from faking that someone sent a message
ye
i think to modify a message u would have to getrid of the reports system
get rid*
ripe sphinx
well you'd not be able to sign it after it was already signed at least
lavish compass
You can modify the message by "decorating" it
ripe sphinx
there are ways of modifying it before it's sent, but that's shown to the users
stuck lava
You can modify the message by "decorating" it
black on black?
ripe sphinx
there's the preview system, so people can see what will be signed
stuck lava
or magic
lavish compass
worthy geode
its pretty nice, even without the chat signing
half escarp
yeah so anyway -> servers can get rid of reports system if they want
lavish compass
currently, yes
wet storm
how does decorating occur? Is it a serialized shit sent to a player with logging packet, so client decorates its own chat, or is it done via resource packs?
half escarp
But what about viaversion, old clients wont sign anything
stuck lava
well
ripe sphinx
yeah viabackwards has been causing issues
half escarp
People won't be able to report them
mental meadow
If servers require valid signatures you won't be able to join with old clients
wet storm
or at least chat with anyone I think
lavish compass
your server has interesting player versions for sure
mental meadow
if you enforce-secure-profiles=true you won't be able to join with old clients
mental meadow
unless they backport this stuff to older versions as well
stuck lava
is that even doable?
stuck lava
lol
wet storm
can't wait for alpha 1.2.6 with chat report system
warm anchor
if those manchild is already this outraged, I cannot imagine the riot if that happens 
dusky stump
where is this from
mental meadow
They sometimes, even to this day, update older versions if they need to
Like for example with the log4j exploit
stuck lava
if those manchild is already this outraged, I cannot imagine the riot if that ha...
eh I'd say they're being careful
cause they want feedback
mental meadow
if those manchild is already this outraged, I cannot imagine the riot if that ha...
i honestly hope they do it just because of that
stuck lava
before going all in with this lol
lavish compass
where is this from
papermc.io/legacy of course
stuck lava
oh! look! it's 1.8.8
lavish compass
would be a lot of fun as well :D
That would cause a LOT of riot
stuck lava
lemme downgrade
mental meadow
ngl the community would deserve it
stuck lava
Such idealism. Much wow.
I don't think most of players are as nice and good as we would like to think
and ig same goes for server owners
mental meadow
someone actually replied under my tweet, tagged a mojang employee that liked my tweet and telling them basically that they are not allowed to like tweets because of bad communication
some people are just unhinged
warm anchor
I can tell you majority of Minecraft comunity are friendly and non-toxic. the one that stands out is usually the toxic one
stuck lava
lol
worthy geode
and the majority of server owners cares about moderation, its just that there are some bad people out there
ripe sphinx
the toxic ones are always the vocal minority
mental meadow
I've also had someone that said they got banned for Java for saying fuck. When I asked for proof they just blamed me for being ignorant. Account is 17 hours old and so far only tweeted at random youtubers telling them they've been banned, of course without any proof
warm anchor
chat signing provides a way for user to report bad server owners as this is extremely hard to achieve in the old system as the server owner controls everything.
stuck lava
dusky stump
papermc.io/legacy of course
ill have a crack at it later
worthy geode
chat signing provides a way for user to report bad server owners as this is extr...
although that might lead to players reporting servers staff that punished them 
But I guess mojang can sort that out
ripe sphinx
yeah that's the second biggest concern I've heard raised, is people mass-reporting staff to get them banned
warm anchor
I mean that's why false reporting is also a punishable offense from the FAQ page
stuck lava
if they're gonna ban for false reporting then it's ok ig?
also there has to be chat text to report?
ripe sphinx
yeah but I mean they're not wrong, it just takes one report to go through to cause problems for an admin
stuck lava
they can't report ur staff for saying "sry u broke then rules, not much we can do, ban"
warm anchor
yeah if someone is just taking items out of your chest from your home, its not gonna be reportable
ripe sphinx
although I suppose if they never say anything in violation of the rules, they'll never be legitimatelt reported so...
worthy geode
its a valid concern, same for the lack of ingame context. there are some stupid opinions out there, but there are certainly some concerns with the system that are valid imo
ripe sphinx
well yeah everyone knows this is far from a perfect situation
magic river
They send context
You'd have to pull apart the client to get the specifics on what that means
worthy geode
Chat context yes, but they have no way of knowing what happened ingame
ripe sphinx
mals right though, what if someone built like a racist statue ingame or smth
stuck lava
"he was stealing my dirt!"
magic river
If your message is something that would get you banned (which means it needs to be very extreme) what non-chat context is going to make it okay to have said it?
magic river
Nope, Mojang is saying it doesn't matter what server you're on, grooming children or being a nazi or whatever is not okay
worthy geode
Depends, we usually have been a bit less strict with mutes and bans if it was from people who e.g. just lost an ingame war
mental meadow
that's not a good excuse
worthy geode
because they are understandably in a bad mood, and as long as it wasn't some stuff that was completely no-go, I think its fine to be a bit less strict there
ripe sphinx
I mean that sounds like just profanity though, which this system doesn't include
ripe sphinx
like it's not like you're allowing people to go yelling slurs I assume
lavish compass
My concern is mainly abuse
stuck lava
media is picking it up "nicely" already
spare venture
xbox live doesnβt have this problem
ripe sphinx
I mean nothing in that screenshot is wrong tbf
spare venture
so why would minecraft
mental meadow
stuck lava
lol
foggy silo
Legit inshambles rn
spare venture
people on the internet lol
foggy silo
crying and coping
warm anchor
xDD
ripe sphinx
https://hard-drive.net/minecraft-community-in-shambles-after-discovering-consequ...
And then thereβs Reddit, which is built differently. The Minecraft subreddit is currently in full βthis is literally 1984β meltdown mode.
foggy silo
Literally 1984
stuck lava
βImagine someone asking where spawn is and helping them by saying βjust kill yourself and find outβ. This might result in you not being able to access multiplayer for a while,β one user notes as a justification for letting users say βkill yourselfβ wholesale.
quiet mesa
> βImagine someone asking where spawn is and helping them by saying βjust kill ...
So specific case xd
stuck lava
lol
ripe sphinx
god that article is hilarious aurora
mild rune
I peruse the MC subreddits from time to time and with all of this they're so funny to read
spare venture
that is valid, but iβm guessing they wonβt ban without context that confirms it was malicious
mild rune
I get some decent chuckles
worthy geode
> βImagine someone asking where spawn is and helping them by saying βjust kill ...
im pretty sure a "Kill yourself" ingame is fine lol
worthy geode
well, there is context
quite a lot of context
iirc it includes system messages, so they can even see things like death messages
wet storm
I think that the only good reason for the chat reporting system is handling links to various unlawful things, like drugs, modern nazi propaganda, etc. Because there are many ways to do something unlawful in game (and even with modded content), like I know that some people play with optifine capes showing vermacht symbolic, or a server can have a voice chat and you can speak even worse things than in an usual chat, etc.
dusty timber
The only worry I have with the full report system is that thereβs no specific way to set an age range for your server afaik
ripe sphinx
how would that make a difference?
unkempt jackal
they got rid of the profanity report option so good natured, adult swearing is fine
stuck lava
wants to let adults have "adult" talks?
quiet mesa
But.... With the changes in the message system in upstream the feature its not broken?
warm anchor
The only worry I have with the full report system is that thereβs no specific wa...
I dont think nazi or other racist offense as outlined in the guidline is suitable for any age
ripe sphinx
yeah there's nothing age-specific about any of the report options
worthy geode
the alcohol/drugs one is
ripe sphinx
it's all things like risk of harm, revenge porn, naziism, etc
stuck lava
I dont think nazi or other racist offense as outlined in the guidline is suitabl...
depends on a server?
I mean...
warm anchor
I think it's "underaged" usage @worthy geode
stuck lava
ripe sphinx
the alcohol/drugs one is
that one is "encouraging kids to" or smth
foggy silo
ripe sphinx
rip your search history, welcome to a bunch of watchlists
worthy geode
I think it's "underaged" usage <@163037773014630400>
yes, but what is underage? 21 because US law? 16 because its a German server?
warm anchor
yeah a good look for freedom in Minecraft
stuck lava
lol
dusty timber
See but thatβs the thing, I never even said that I was talking about hate speech, Iβm all for racist nonsense to be against the rules, but I donβt think swearing should be
ripe sphinx
and it isn't
warm anchor
swearing isnt part of the faq?
unkempt jackal
you don't get put on a watchlist for searching up the word Nazi. If you can't learn history, you will be doomed to repeat it.
ripe sphinx
profanity isn't a report category
warm anchor
ok that's not good
dusty timber
I guess they removed that?
worthy geode
yes they did
warm anchor
Please read the latest official source https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/7149823936781 @dusty timber
quiet mesa
yes, but what is underage? 21 because US law? 16 because its a German server?
Its not like discord where depends more of the country of user than the "server"?
ripe sphinx
you don't get put on a watchlist for searching up the word Nazi. If you can't le...
was partially a joke, but I bet looking up nazis in a non-historical context i.e. for a Minecraft Server probably does raise some red flags
worthy geode
Its not like discord where depends more of the country of user than the "server"...
well, on a German speaking server its safe to assume that most of the players are German as well
dusty timber
Iβll check it out as soon as Iβm free, thank you for the link, Iβm currently out of town and my discord was going haywire so I just did a quick google search and that was it
worthy geode
not to mention that mojang has no way of telling if a player is underage or not. I highly doubt they can enforce that category at all, so im not worried about it
ripe sphinx
I mean it's been a while but I assume one of the signup questions is age?
ashen cliff
Rated E, for everyone.
worthy geode
is it? it wasn't in 2011
ripe sphinx
idk I made my account 7y ago too
unkempt jackal
online play is unrated
warm anchor
Iβll check it out as soon as Iβm free, thank you for the link, Iβm currently out...
It will be nice for everyone to actually read what's being published instead of trusting a front page reddit post or a famous youtuber whos whole revenue is based on one toxic anarchy community.
ripe sphinx
subtle eternity π
quiet mesa
I mean it's been a while but I assume one of the signup questions is age?
Yeah and the microsoft accounts require this too
ashen cliff
Oh cool. The Java edition also has an E rating.
wet storm
It will be nice for everyone to actually read what's being published instead of ...
fitmc
worthy geode
but still leaves the issue of what law applies
ripe sphinx
yeah I assumed the M$ account transition would force asking for age
warm anchor
Oh cool. The Java edition also has an E rating.
yeah lol
thought I will be honest the rating in US sucks
ashen cliff
That is true.
dusty timber
It will be nice for everyone to actually read what's being published instead of ...
People are drawn to the most convenient source of information, if itβs not something political and they see coverage on their front page of YouTube or Reddit thatβs probably enough generally
warm anchor
understandable
dusty timber
I didnβt know the profanity report has been removed, that was my biggest qualm
wet storm
welcome to papermc <#555469074080202765> , the oldest discord channel in minecra...
shader labs one feels older
dusty timber
I guess context over text is rather difficult for underpaid moderation teams but then again manual review of reports works just fine for many things
So I actually donβt mind that too much
ripe sphinx
welcome to papermc <#555469074080202765> , the oldest discord channel in minecra...
got curious, based off first message this channel is actually only 3 years old
quiet mesa
The underpaid moderation....
wet storm
#paper-help is older iirc
ripe sphinx
yeah I was too lazy to snowstamp
dusty timber
I mean whatβs likely gonna happen is Microsoft is gonna outsource the work for chat moderation
To a developing country
With limited English fluency
ripe sphinx
interestingly this channel has 200K more messages than paper-help
void void
paper-help used to be general iirc
magic river
Mojang has already had a team handling these kinds of things
This is not a new thing for them
quiet mesa
interestingly this channel has 200K more messages than paper-help
If consider people ask for help here too (?
ripe sphinx
yeah but this channel is 2 years newer, and wasn't also a general channel for those 2 years
dusty timber
How old is this discord?
ripe sphinx
idk I just assumed the support channel wouldl have more messages
dusty timber
Like as a whole
wet storm
interestingly this channel has 200K more messages than paper-help
actually, it is a spam of weeb emojis by eternity ngl
ripe sphinx
How old is this discord?
3/9/2017, 6:38:57 PM
worthy geode
As old as #paper-help
magic river
They're just making reports easier to make, making them more secure (you can verify what was said), and ensuring they collect whatever context they think they need automatically
worthy geode
They have the same ID, so that was the default channel
ripe sphinx
bloody daylight savings
stuck lava
actually, it is a spam of weeb emojis by eternity ngl
careful, that's offensive... underpaid staffers will ban ya
warm anchor
I mean hes not lying
quiet mesa
They have the same ID, so that was the default channel
The first channel then was the help?
warm anchor
unkempt jackal
it's also a spam of people not understanding the new report system
worthy geode
The first channel then was the help?
apparently, but it was a general channel at that time
quiet mesa
Ohhh
ripe sphinx
it's also a spam of people not understanding the new report system
yeah but that's probably like 1000 messages at most, doesn't account for this channel haaving 200k more
worthy geode
it's also a spam of people not understanding the new report system
they watched FitMCs great video (the guy from the oldest anarchy server in minecraft)
ripe sphinx
but then again as we've demonstrated, this channel does have a lot more conversation
unkempt jackal
his beard is like my theology teacher's beard
worthy geode
somehow he reminds me a bit of Billy
magic river
I wonder what the oldest server in MC thinks about this, if we're pulling server age out like it matters π
stuck lava
magic river
Someone ask the nerd.nu folks their opinion
You know, the server the /r/minecraft subreddit was made for
Before all you randoms took it over to talk about the actual game π
magic river
Yep
ripe sphinx
side note, today's W11 breakage: Search has forgotten that I've set my taskbar to stick to the left instead of center, so now bloody search is in the fucking middle of my screen
magic river
Got pushed out of their subreddit by people posting generic memes and crap π
worthy geode
https://www.reddit.com/r/mcpublic/comments/vjs3gp/119_abuse_reporting_and_player_banning_we_need_to/
And they are unhappy about it
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) 1.19 abuse reporting and player banning. We need to talk about this : mcpublic - 5 comments, 23 points - vp3d, 1d ago
ripe sphinx
I'm surprised there's still irc bots running
worthy geode
Im not even sure what the point of this bot is
ripe sphinx
embedding what the post is and the karma I suppose
worthy geode
And I just deleted the discord embed smh
ripe sphinx
(a problem that the modern internet i.e. Discord has already solved but I digress)
magic river
/r/mcpublic also still has the wrong idea about the reporting system
magic river
They're talking about profanity but that isn't even in there
unkempt jackal
yooooo
magic river
Man, totemo really stuck his foot in his mouth with that one
One of his points is outdated/wrong and the other is just outright wrong
They also assume it'll be AI driven and have a crap appeals process
worthy geode
its not too far-fetched, there are platforms that have those issues
vagrant marlin
i personally dont care whether the system works well or not, ill disable it on my server anyways.
id be the one getting banned
unkempt jackal
are chat messages broadcasted from the server itself signed? can you report them?
magic river
I predict in the near future the client option for what to do with unsigned chat will change from default allow to default block, possibly followed by removing the option entirely
That would still let you just send system messages but doing so breaks things on the client already (client side mutes, turning off all chat) and could easily be a part of an updated EULA saying you can't do that
vagrant marlin
wouldnt it make sense to have it enabled for microsoft accounts assigned to kids
magic river
are chat messages broadcasted from the server itself signed? can you report them...
System messages are not signed, Spigot (and thus Paper) are currently sending all chat as system messages
vagrant marlin
will spigot ever send them properly kek
ripe sphinx
in theory yes
in practice I wouldn't be surprised if mojang needs to put pressure on md to make him actually do so though
vagrant marlin
has md responded to pressure ever?
ripe sphinx
I mean when there was the bukkit drama he moved the spigot servers to a country that doesn't respect DMCA / other copyright takedowns, does that count? π
warm anchor
Lol
unkempt jackal
ok i misread
vagrant marlin
thats funny
stuck lava
no, it makes sense lol
ripe sphinx
I mean it makes sense and is legal, but it's a pretty fucking asshole thing to do
but whatever
stuck lava
well
I guess in a way a big part of community could just die?
with bukkit
tho it seems it's happening all over again... m$ trying to take over
but dunno
well maybe not take over... but wanna push out private servers
and from their perspective it makes sense?
ripe sphinx
I mean yeah M$ is becoming more hands-on, but they're doing stuff that frankly should have been done a decade ago
like the fact that MC has had public server capabilities for like 10+ years without 2FA or any reporting/moderation is frankly shocking
magic river
Right, I don't necessarily agree with the specifics of what they say is reportable and such but the system in general is good and needed
ripe sphinx
people are just used to how it's been and despite these all being reasonable changes, people will always resist change
stuck lava
ok let me turn the question around... u think we're still gonna see private MC servers in 10 yrs? private servers with sizes of current private servers, etc?
warm anchor
Yes
ripe sphinx
I mean I'd say no just because I expect MC to shrink over the next 10 years, like things won't last
warm anchor
You can quote me here and I donβt think majority of server will see any impact of this hate speech moderation
Letβs wait and see
ripe sphinx
Yeah like I don't expect to see MC servers that much in 10 years, but these changes will make no difference for that
stuck lava
You can quote me here and I donβt think majority of server will see any impact o...
no I meant more in general terms, how ms is well changing mc
I'm not saying it's for the better or worse, my question was if u think we're still gonna see private servers, with direction they're currently taking
unrelated to chat stuff
warm anchor
I donβt see how anything is changed unless you fall into the offensive categoryβ¦?
magic river
Will there be MC Java releases in 10 years? Not sure. Will MC be a thing and will people run their own servers in 10 years? Probably.
warm anchor
I do love my 2FA
unkempt jackal
minecraft just has so much staying power
ripe sphinx
I'm not saying it's for the better or worse, my question was if u think we're st...
I mean if you're suggesting M$ killing privately-hosted servers, even if that was possible, they know better, that would be company suicide
magic river
Killing MC would just be a slightly bad quarter for Microsoft π
ripe sphinx
but the backlash would be insane, and in that case justified
stuck lava
I mean if you're suggesting M$ killing privately-hosted servers, even if that wa...
unless they do it slowly? push players to realms? win-win?
magic river
Microsoft is one of the largest corporations in the world with a bond rating better than some countries, they aren't going anywhere
stuck lava
they're not, we are (owners)
magic river
By some countries I mean the US π
viral dagger
unless they do it slowly? push players to realms? win-win?
there's so many things realms just does not offer
stuck lava
ripe sphinx
unless they do it slowly? push players to realms? win-win?
I mean as soon as they released selfhostable server jars and downloadable clients, the cat was out of the bag, there's no way they can block selfhosted servers. There will always be a way to download the older clients and the servers
vernal moth
Idk why everybody always goes to assume Microsoft hates us when everything they do has been moving the community forward and making sure it can florish
Like, why assume the worst when the past tells us we can expect the best
fickle rain
Hindsight is 20/20
ripe sphinx
I mean it's Mojang so they'll probably bork the implementation in some stupid way, but their intent is usually good yes
ashen cliff
Idk why everybody always goes to assume Microsoft hates us when everything they ...
Mob votes.
stuck lava
vernal moth
Mob votes.
Well, maybe that's true, I don't give a shit about the content
ashen cliff
Understandable.
stuck lava
what do u care about? performance?
vernal moth
I view the game as a platform
ripe sphinx
no like just a normal server
ashen cliff
I mean, custom auth servers for MC already exists.
ripe sphinx
what do u care about? performance? <:kekw:674093681963302933>
hangar if he ever finishes it
ashen cliff
How come? It's just HTTP.
vernal moth
Why not?
ripe sphinx
I mean I assume those require some form of client modification to make the launcher/client use those instead of mojang's yggdrasil instance, but that doesn't sound too hard
ashen cliff
Custom launcher and/or DNS override.
ripe sphinx
ok yeah so pretty trivial
stuck lava
are we talking about mojang auth now, custom auth with mod, cracked server or just auth proxy for waterfall?
ashen cliff
Very simple, so there are some communities out there using that already.
vernal moth
Don't even need to touch the client, the urls are just params
stuck lava
or something else lol
ripe sphinx
oh ok yeah that's 10 seconds then
vernal moth
are we talking about mojang auth now, custom auth with mod, cracked server or ju...
We talking about Yggdrasil/session server
ripe sphinx
(so yeah mojang auth / custom auth)
stuck lava
gotta pass those to mojang one way or another tho?
stuck lava
isn't "invalid session" msg within launcher clientside thing?
been awhile since I was digging around that
but iirc client verified session against mojang servers on it's own, no?
ripe sphinx
yeah but it's trivial to just have it use different servers instead of mojangs
vernal moth
It verifieds against the Yggdrasil server, which is configurable
stuck lava
so with other words, u can't let online-mode players online with vanilla clients without mojang (or at least cached response)
vernal moth
That just depends on how you define online mode
You can emulate online mode with a 3rd party Yggdrasil server
It's different to offline mode, as the connection is still verified to a session server
Just not Mojangs session server
But there really isn't a reason to for 99%
magic river
With a launcher arg, your own auth service, and a modded server you can run Mojang free while still having actual accounts and encryption and such
stuck lava
yea, with a launcher arg
vernal moth
Client arg, actually
stuck lava
or it's gonna fail https://wiki.vg/Protocol#Login on 4.
magic river
I guess you'd need a custom launcher since you need to actually log in to this new auth service
stuck lava
well one way or another it's not really viable solution unless u wanna start distributing MC which is probably no-go if u ask MS
magic river
You don't need to distribute MC, just a fork of MultiMC
Or whatever launcher you want to use
ashen cliff
Some modded servers do that (looking at those cursed Pokemon MC servers).
So anyone can play despite not owning MC.
Essentially they just use the game as an engine.
vernal moth
They use this cause they have an staging even and stuff for their services
It's not intended for 3rd parties
But it still works
magic river
Everything Mojang has done for the last decade (outside of content) has been making the game more modular, data driven, configurable, etc
Their old setup probably just had an if (DEBUG) in the code and required new builds π
Or they just didn't have a staging environment
vernal moth
Knowing Mojang accounts prolly the latter, lmao
unkempt jackal
I've been thinking with how much mojangs servers have been down recently, is there any legitimate way to play minecraft singleplayer in such a situation?
vernal moth
You can launch Minecraft when Mojang is down, no?
Just couldn't connect to multiplayer unless they also use offline mode
unkempt jackal
it would only let me access the demo, since it said i did not own minecraft
ashen cliff
You can to some extent. Like, 90% of the time it will just be like: LOG IN AGAIN, cuz I need to download some files that you already have.
vernal moth
Idk how you trigger offline mode with the current launchers
stuck lava
You can to some extent. Like, 90% of the time it will just be like: LOG IN AGAIN...
yea I noticed that too new launcher is always downloading something and is slow af
on 1G/100 lol what more do they want, what about ppl playing on dialup
ashen cliff
Just looking at MultiMC spending 20s to get a god damn session now, is very sad.
stuck lava
just session?
unkempt jackal
my multimc never has problem
stuck lava
6s before launcher would open, 15s before I can see play button
ashen cliff
Yeah, it just hates me, like it has to retry at least 3 times.
vernal moth
One day I'll rewrite my launcher
ashen cliff
Speak of the devil, my 1.18 instance needs a god damn update: https://posili.me/i/MP3QxTy4-2022-06-25_20-04-26.png
stuck lava
eh
ashen cliff
HOW?
vernal moth
Well, blame the launcher, no?
vernal moth
Mojang most likely just regularly pushes out lang updates or something
stuck lava
m.2 samsung
vernal moth
But you can choose to just not download them
ashen cliff
The official one does the same, just decides to be funny and go ultra slow randomly.
stuck lava
and it had to download something again
vernal moth
That's why I want to write my own launcher again
stuck lava
I had it based on rus launcher
ashen cliff
You have other projects to finish first Mini.
stuck lava
but it died with 1.13 or something
didn't bother to update afterwards
not it died with 1.17*
when they dropped java 8
vernal moth
Oh yeah it's not high on my to-do list
mild rune
I've been writing an instance switcher for the vanilla launcher. Learned if you pass a --workdir when launching the launcher it changes where it looks for all the versions and such.
ashen cliff
Ok, but why?
mild rune
Because I wish to?
vernal moth
I want to use it as an excuse to learn electron or that new alternative
stuck lava
I don't even care about any of launcher issues or version switching but when I gotta hop on and mine 2 blocks or ban 1 person...
ashen cliff
Understandable.
vernal moth
I launch the game like once a month, I don't need a launcher, lol
ashen cliff
I don't even care about any of launcher issues or version switching but when I g...
1.10 + Via my beloved.
ashen cliff
Yeah, somehow 1.10 and 1.11 are the fastest versions.
stuck lava
interesting, will check this out, ty, I kinda skipped 1.9 to 1.16 lol
I'm looking at multumc now...
You will also have to register your own app on Azure to be able to handle Microsoft account logins.
uhh?
stuck lava
where's the catch tho? I feel like I tried it in the past already... can't recall if...why I gave up on it π€£
stuck lava
void void
Good day to everyone
jovial plover
Hey! Does anyone know of a Intel core i3-i7 laptop or desktop with 8gb ram and 256gb+ storage for under Β£300 has to be brand new.
warm anchor
I thought you asked earlier already
golden gust
under Β£300
has to be brand new
Please apply some IQ points here
as I've literally said all day, at that price range you're in the market for a "my first laptop!" for college
warm anchor
You can save the time and go find a job or something that budget simply wonβt work
Amaranth also gave you similar answer earlier did you forget? @jovial plover
jovial plover
Yes
novel horizon
Yes, forgot?
jovial plover
Yes
golden gust
at that price point, if you want "decent" hardware, you're gonna need to go used
jovial plover
But I can go a tad over my budget
golden gust
Like, best you could probs do is get a sthinkpad and a CPU upgrade for the thing
warm anchor
Your budget ainβt going to work
Even for a $600 your only reasonable choice for a school home work hardware is at best a chrome book
golden gust
Yea, I mean, when "brand new" is a requirement, you're killing yourself on that budget
jovial plover
I can probably go 50 over my budget
golden gust
which is basically nothing
jovial plover
Yea, I mean, when "brand new" is a requirement, you're killing yourself on that ...
Yeah, I'm sus of 2nd hand
warm anchor
novel horizon
Well
golden gust
You've not got the budget to be sus of 2nd hand
warm anchor
Well you either pay up or get used to second hand and itβs totally ok
novel horizon
For about 400 usd it's not much
jovial plover
What if it has a shit load of malware which destroys my network
visual egret
Even I didn't drink before 14
me neither and I donβt intend to π
golden gust
Wipe the thing
golden gust
Like, first thing you wanna do when you get a machine anyways
worthy geode
I was lucky and got a new Lenovo notebook with an i5, SSD and 8 GB RAM in 2016 for 300β¬. But that was really really rare, and things only got more expansive since then anyways
jovial plover
Plus what if its been beaten to shit
warm anchor
Ok
jovial plover
And it barely works
worthy geode
don't buy it if its beaten to shit
warm anchor
But your budget
golden gust
I mean, that's why you look at the listing and such
warm anchor
jovial plover
don't buy it if its beaten to shit
How would I know
golden gust
You have consumer rights
worthy geode
use your eyes
golden gust
Literally every payment provider there by law has to protect said rights
jovial plover
What if they hsvr pictures of non beaten to shit pc
worthy geode
if it looks weird or only has bad pictures, don't buy it
golden gust
Then you raise a complaint
novel horizon
Really powerful π€‘
https://www.amazon.com/HP-Notebook-Intel-Memory-Windows/dp/B092LDWZYJ
golden gust
platforms heavily swing in the buyers favour
novel horizon
(And also quite a lot over the budget, this example)