general

[lilac moon]

What's 4th party

Does it exist

[tropic flame]

I'm actually very fun at parties

[mighty storm]

yea when you turn 3

[void void]

Plenty of games have 3rd party servers and still have platform enforcement.

[mighty storm]

console platforms shivering

[worthy geode]

If your 3rd party outsources things, maybe?

[mighty storm]

oh i know the answer

[void void]

Servers that buy everything off mc-market and 3rd party devs be like

[worthy geode]

"4th party vendor risk" seems to be a thing, so yes, 4th parties exist

[lilac moon]

Servers that source everything from FOSS projects

[mighty storm]

it's the independence day anniversary celebration in america, i dont think other countries have 4th parties

[lilac moon]

Wait that's everyone

[mighty storm]

oh i replied to the wrong guy

[tropic flame]

america doesn't even have a 3rd at all

[mild rune]

I'm starting up 5th party server hosting

[worthy geode]

I hope you got the 2011 Xeons ready

[void void]

I'm starting 6th party, be even more protected

[mild rune]

2009* Xeons

tyvm

[mighty storm]

nah some company already owns all of them

wouldnt want to be them

[mild rune]

oh I know which company!

[lilac moon]

4th dimension

[mild rune]

I have to work on them!

[mighty storm]

2009 xeon is a car?

[lilac moon]

Which company

[worthy geode]

Get a 2004 Pentium so you can say "3,8 GHz processors"

[mighty storm]

thats what im trying to figure out

honda, ford?

[lilac moon]

I bet its like AWS or someine

[mild rune]

128GB of ram

[lilac moon]

oh isn't Xeon a cpu

[mild rune]

DDR(something)

[tropic flame]

catch message, resend it as tellraw-like message...

[mighty storm]

i have a server at home thats straight up DDR, no number

[lilac moon]

Lmao what

[worthy geode]

So its from east germany?

[mild rune]

her servers also forget their nameservers regularly

[mighty storm]

who

[mild rune]

you

[mighty storm]

oh i fixed that

one simple trick!

lemme go to my crontab

[mild rune]

you're never allowed to touch my servers

[mighty storm]

*/15 * * * * echo 'nameserver 1.1.1.1\noptions edns0 trust-ad\nsearch attlocal.net' > /etc/resolv.conf

literally fixes it

no issues

[mild rune]

[mighty storm]

come to think of it i havent had garage notifications in weeks

[mild rune]

                     _                 _
     /\             | |               (_)
    /  \   _ __   __| |_   ____ _ _ __ _
   / /\ \ | '_ \ / _` \ \ / / _` | '__| |
  / ____ \| | | | (_| |\ V / (_| | |  | |
 /_/    \_\_| |_|\__,_| \_/ \__,_|_|  |_|
If you're not supposed to be here disconnect. or don't I'm just a MOTD

Name: andvari.[redacted].com
Uptime: 40 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes

CPU:  Intel(R) Xeon(R) E-2288G CPU @ 3.70GHz
Memory: 125G
Swap: 8191M
Disk: 915G
Distro: Ubuntu 22.04 LTS with 5.15.0-30-generic

CPU Load: 1.51, 1.24, 1.19
Free Memory: 98Gi
Free Swap: 8132M
Free Disk: 693G
Used Disk: 176G

If you don't use a custom motd who are you

I should update the kernel

[lilac moon]

This is cursed

[mild rune]

thank you

[lilac moon]

My god

[mighty storm]

what's more cursed my solution or the problem itself, cus it randomly sets the nameserver to 127.53.0.1 or smth all the time

[mild rune]

oh

[lilac moon]

systemd-resolved?

[mild rune]

I should uh

I should restart

[lilac moon]

Or resolvconf or whatever

I think its probably systemd-resolved

you have to configure that instead

If you remive the crontab entry and once it changes check for any comments in /etc/resolv.conf that say what manages that file

[mighty storm]

this is on al aptop if that matters

[mild rune]

I have made a large booboo

and killed all my containers by accident

[molten egret]

anyone got any mod pack recommendations?

[lament patio]

Fabulously optimized

[golden gust]

DNS issues?

easy fix

get a mac

runs

[quiet mesa]

[lilac moon]

what

i dont get it

[golden gust]

what?

my joke? basically, linux networking is fucking ass

or, at least, the userspace BS is

[magic river]

systemd-resolved makes this a lot more sane

[golden gust]

Maybe

and then ubuntu shows up

with netplan

[magic river]

Instead of random shit trying to edit /etc/resolv.conf and overwriting each other (networkmanager, tailscale, pihole-like things, etc) they all coordinate via that

[lilac moon]

yeah

exactly

[primal solar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/872199146772267088/989644285127319663/unknown.png

Excuse me what

[worthy geode]

hmm?

[spiral robin]

what's the issue here

[buoyant crane]

maybe they're referring to this ?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[worthy geode]

oh, yeah. too used to people being confused about adventure components

[primal solar]

Lol

Should have marked it my bad

[worthy geode]

well, at least the nullable annotation on that is correct, that is not really consistent within the bukkit API annoyingly

[primal solar]

I am guessing there was some Crtl C ctrl V action there

[novel palm]

Will there be a way to disable this chat reporting option? It seems pretty unpopular in the community.

[ripe sphinx]

by a vocal minority, yes

(but yes there's ways even on vanilla to "disable" it)

[novel palm]

Idk pretty much everyone I've talked to doesn't like it and on the top two posts today on r/Minecraft that bash the chat reporting system have 17k and 12k upvotes.

[ripe sphinx]

yeah well reddit is an echo chamber

[novel palm]

Alright well I plan on doing that, I don't intend to get banned from my own server.

Yea you're not wrong

[warm anchor]

Minecraft have millions of players. Reddit is also an echo chamber

[ripe sphinx]

also it should be noted that we still have no idea how mojang will be moderating aside from the vast categories

[spiral robin]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-ah-shit-cj-gta-gta-san-andreas-gif-13933485

[novel palm]

I've also heard some people say that Mojang will be implementing chat reporting into previous versions via their authentication server. Is this even possible?

[warm anchor]

You can start reading the discussion from here #general message

we do not need to talk about this topic every hour

what can be said is already said for billionth times already

[ripe sphinx]

and no there's no way for them to backport this, there's extensive client and server changes to make this work

[novel palm]

Thanks, I'll check this out.

[novel palm]

Alright that's good to know, thanks.

[ripe sphinx]

(I mean technically they could backport it, but doing so would break everything that modifies the client/server that touches chat, and Mojang knows better than to do something like that)

[novel palm]

I'm not too worried about it (I think it's just a bunch of fear mongering) but I thought I'd get some information since some of my players are worried.

[spiral robin]

Love eternity.

Best mod by far

[warm anchor]

[ripe sphinx]

https://f.u11.io/9HFLHA

[spiral robin]

[lilac moon]

Did you just properly capitalize your search term

[shrewd lion]

it gives to extra luck

[golden gust]

!ban @warm anchor Just doing the lords work

[warm anchor]

[novel horizon]

🏃‍♂️

[silver nexus]

Is discord suffering, or just me?

[ripe sphinx]

I just had a pretty bad hiccup

oh yeah API response time is looking like the alps

https://f.u11.io/fu3iya

[silver nexus]

Yea, took that message a good 3 minutes to send

[ripe sphinx]

in typical Discord fashion everything is displaying as green on the status board though :/

[lilac moon]

Discord moment

[lunar night]

has paper said anything about 1.19.1 and its reporting system and plans?

[spare venture]

yes, i recommend using the search function

[primal solar]

discord is having issues this week

[little frost]

this week?

[primal solar]

It went down twice for me this week

Dont know if everyone else had that too

[unkempt jackal]

discord is just being quirky

[ripe sphinx]

There was also a Cloudflare outage that affected Discord, along with a good percentage of the internet

[primal solar]

idk why discord has a beta when it literally releases all its features half done

[unkempt jackal]

lmao

[daring laurel]

https://twitter.com/spigotdrama/status/1540198026446221312?s=21&t=NvM9QBnhalRzG-C5JpxRDQ

SpigotDrama (@SpigotDrama)

electroniccat came out in support of pumpkins masquerading as pineapples

Twitter · Jun 24, 2022, 4:59 AM

cat please comment

[fallen grotto]

why does that exist

lmao

[onyx cape]

if people say chat reporting in 1.19.1 is bad just make paper force disable signed chat so client cant report players /j

[restive hinge]

What server hosting should i use for me and my friends i have one hosted on a rasberi pi for me and my friends but it was slow and i just want something easy that i can use Geyser and floodgate

[crystal lily]

https://docs.papermc.io/java-install-update

[void void]

how do i invite @thorny flicker

[golden gust]

private bot

[viral hornet]

dedicatedmc.io or bloom.host

[restive hinge]

thanks

[restive hinge]

Dedicated doesnt allow me to use the au plan

[viral hornet]

You're looking for an Australian host?

If so, https://pixelpond.io/

[hollow shard]

I heard that a lot of redstone repeaters could cause a lot of lag. Would a lot of active repeaters cause ping lag or frame drops?

[restive hinge]

should i use pixel pond or https://dedicatedmc.io/ server

[viral hornet]

You just said Dedicated doesn't allow you to use the AU plan?

[restive hinge]

i know it will be hosted in us

but its cheaper and better

[viral hornet]

what

[restive hinge]

oh dedicatied

[viral hornet]

omg

[visual egret]

isn’t US-AU ping like 70

[viral hornet]

no, usually much higher

[visual egret]

yeah that’s just using the speed of light and the distance

[viral hornet]

[visual egret]

v=x/t

[viral hornet]

okay... anyway

@restive hinge if you're looking for a good host for Australia use PixelPond

[restive hinge]

ok

[viral hornet]

You're still paying 15 bucks for the server inside the US, whereas pixelpond's first plans are 11 bucks, tis a no brainer

Idk, ur mom

[visual egret]

.g server Hosts in China

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) https://sourceforge.net/software/dedicated-server-hosting/china/

[visual egret]

one google search

[ashen cliff]

MFW I rember playing MC bedrock over custom PS, on a 🇨🇳 server with 400 ping. Of course no issues.

[visual egret]

sounds like it would never break

[magic river]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpcpsCY4Mco

I've totally never spent a meeting half listening while playing Tomba! on my Steam Deck or watching a YT video, no never

[visual egret]

emailing this to hr at ur company

ez

[viral hornet]

You see, I would have to focus so fucking hard on a meeting to not get distracted

If I started playing a game, or watching a video, all focus for the meeting would be gone lmao

[magic river]

Our meetings tend to be so the PM can get up to date on what we've been doing, not for us to discuss things

Other than the 5-10 minutes I need to talk about what I've been working on I can usually tune the rest out, either I already know what they're saying or it isn't relevant to me

[viral hornet]

"Amaranth, how have you been progressing on x task?"
"One sec, about to get a new PR on this game"

[magic river]

I usually just walk laps around my house during meetings though so I'm listening

[viral hornet]

Yeah I'm a huge wanderer when i'm on the phone

[magic river]

But when I'm not feeling very productive I'll fire up a game or YT for a few hours and try again later and sometimes those overlap with meeting times

Oh yeah, even in person I pace sometimes when explaining things but on the phone I can never just sit around unless I'm tied to my keyboard at the same time

Standing desk means that isn't a thing, I can easily walk over and do things still

[silver nexus]

Incorrect server…

[primal solar]

They are gonna cause both but frames wont be too noticeable

However the server is gonna cry

[void zealot]

If the player report function doesnt get improved will paper have a way to block or improve it?

if you agree can you please upvote this suggestion? I think the report feature could be improved a lot. https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/7168139537037-player-report-function
this was my idea

[lavish compass]

wtf is this

[vagrant marlin]

dedicated server hosting in china
hetzner

[void zealot]

I also added a suggestion to be anble to set your server to private so if you get banned you can still play whit your friends

[coarse venture]

when you get banned, you dont get to play mc at all, no matter what server.

The sanction is on the MSA account, not on the server it got reported on.

[dapper pumice]

don't get g-banned then

[scarlet axle]

minecraft pro feature

[mental meadow]

Paper will not block anything like that.

[worn ember]

offline mode gang

[scarlet axle]

😎

[worn ember]

1.20

• Implemented feature that requires you to sign over your soul to Mojang to keep using the application
• Removed Herobrine

[scarlet axle]

😱

nvm i got spare sou-

[rare python]

🤔

[upbeat mauve]

back in (damn spambot)

[vernal moth]

Am alive again

Only 90min till I can get drunk again, 200 year celebration at company 😂

I was really scarred I did something stupid when waking up because I had like a billion twitter notifications, but it were just "anarchy" kids

What is it with americans not understanding the concept of hate speech and hate crimes in general?

[limber trout]

Ive dropped 56k iron in my smp 👀

[dusty canopy]

hey , im facing a problem in my bungee cord server where all users have same ip so when i ip ban someone every one gets banned
and yes and made sure that ip forwording is true and in spigot setings and i sat my server ip to 127.0.0.1
extra info : im runing my server on ubuntu

[worthy geode]

bungeecord is enabled as well in the spigot.yml?

But thats probably something you should ask on whatever discord bungeecord uses

[errant bridge]

welp that's pretty shit

Guess I'll just have to always play with https://modrinth.com/mod/no-chat-reports just in case

[mental meadow]

Or, you know, follow the rules

[coarse venture]

Welp. Dont go around soreading hate soeech etc and so you dont fet reported. And shouldnt affect you. Ppl can report you for ages already. Now it is just moved ingame

[mental meadow]

The difference compared to before is that now it's more secure + verifiable, and it's easier

[errant bridge]

I mean it seems incredibly stupid that you could potentially get banned for "profanity" (at least I'd assume so since it's a report category

now that I think about it it means that #general message would potentially be ban worthy if I sent it on a minecraft server

[mental meadow]

Not any more

Didn't they remove that category already in the newest snapshot

[errant bridge]

ah I've just found the release candidate changelog

The description for the “Drugs and alcohol” category has been updated to “Someone is encouraging others to partake in illegal drug related activities or encouraging underage drinking”
That's better than potentially getting banned for mentioning the existence of alcohol 😂

[mental meadow]

Also, at least to me it's pretty obvious that punishments will only ever be issued for really severe cases

I agree that they need to communicate more and better, but that's why snapshots exist

[errant bridge]

and yeah the "profanity" category has been removed

[errant bridge]

Tbh it seems a lot more reasonable now but even just the fact that they ever had such wide ranging and way too stringent rules is going to make everyone assume bad faith w.r.t. the report system in general...

[mental meadow]

Again, that's why snapshots exist. Test new features and refine them

[vernal moth]

Servers can block such players quite easily tho

[mental meadow]

require secure profiles pog

[vernal moth]

Which I assume many servers will do

Cause only players who are planning to break the rules will install such mods

Easy way to block troublemakers

[errant bridge]

I mean, sure, but that doesn't change that this appeared to have been the actual plan at some point - for sure it was going to change in some way but it seems to me about as much of a faux-pas as, say, starting a conversation with someone you don't know by asking them for sex or something stupid like that

[mental meadow]

I'm 90% certain they just copied existing Xbox report categories

[vernal moth]

Wait, you are telling me Mojang listens constructive to feedback? :O

Man I can't English today

It's waaay too early

[errant bridge]

I'd assume many servers won't unless public opinion widely changes on this

[vernal moth]

You judge public opinion by a vocal minority, that's dangerous

[mental meadow]

Many of the big servers will and that's enough

[vernal moth]

The vast amount of players approve of Mojangs plans to make the game safer for everybody

They just don't engage in flame wars on Reddit

[errant bridge]

I mean I don't think many people disapprove of plans to make a game safer on that principle lmfao

[vernal moth]

Well, that is what this is all about

[mental meadow]

Also, again, the only thing new is that now you get a fancy menu and it's verifiable who send the message. Reports have always been possible

[vernal moth]

Just makes the whole process more secure and easier for everybody involved

Plus it's only a multiplayer ban now

[wet storm]

avg papermc general discussion 🙄

[mental meadow]

In the past they had to rely on logs and screenshots and therefore couldn't really do much

[sour orbit]

I get why Mojang's situtation, but i think they shouldnt be able to ban us from multiplayer while we have to run them and invest energy into maintaining them, i think this would be better if this rule only covered realms servers or smt.

[errant bridge]

I mean I actually haven't seen anybody anywhere have positive feelings about this anywhere except here for now

[mental meadow]

Enough people in here who appreciate it

Funnily enough mostly people who have been in this community for a long time

[errant bridge]

and without further information which doesn't seem to have spread far I think any reasonable person would think "you could potentially get banned for profanity" to be a complete garbage policy

[worthy geode]

they removed profanity as a report reason

[errant bridge]

yeah but people don't seem to know about that

[quasi valley]

also see https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/7149823936781

[mental meadow]

Then "people"should actually inform themselves before spreading misinformation

But oh no imagine actually reading up on things and not just getting angry on Twitter

[worthy geode]

there communication was pretty bad on it, but the new system seems alright

[rare python]

People can be stupid

Twitter is something to be avoided.

[worthy geode]

it only covers the really bad stuff now and that is fine for me

[errant bridge]

"people" generally trust information from a reddit thread that seems credible enough, or, say, a youtuber they watch all the time that hasn't updated their video in any way (for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdoFUhd0EkI), enough that they don't go in depth to go make a detailed investigation just in case everyone is being stupid

[wet storm]

your pfp...

changed

[dusky stump]

is that... true?

[dapper pumice]

why so?
if one deserves a ban on one server for any critical/illegal topics, they are a problem for whole community, which server ever they are on. compare it with VAC of steam games.
"bad" players aren't a good addition to multiplayer games 😄

[rare python]

Randomly generated semi transparent noise because the quilt discord are grumpy and insisted upon a non transparent pfp. I don't like it.

[warped abyss]

Is there anyway to remove the anti xray only for operators in paper

[mental meadow]

There is a permission node to bypass it

[errant bridge]

I mean even if you have a VAC-ban you can still access any non-VAC servers

[warped abyss]

what is it

if u dont mind me asking

[mental meadow]

Should be document in

[crystal lily]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/anti-xray

[dapper pumice]

right.. comparable to offline servers ..you can still go there, but you won't bother normal community anymore

[rare python]

Did you consider checking the docs?

[errant bridge]

I mean offline servers don't have any authentication at all...

[dapper pumice]

that's their problem 😄

[errant bridge]

also actually can you even join any servers if you're banned ?

[rare python]

No

[errant bridge]

so not even offline servers

[rare python]

Well

Yes

[dapper pumice]

"cracked" clients can.. they don't care about the ban

[warped abyss]

thank you

[dapper pumice]

because no account

[rare python]

Offline mode, but you need to start in offline mode

[mental meadow]

Nvm try https://docs.papermc.io/paper/reference/world-configuration#anti-xray @warped abyss

[warped abyss]

found it tysm!

[sour orbit]

yeah, but also like you compared, theres an option to allow VAC banned players to join ur community server, so i think there should be an option to let players who were banned join ur server, and if they are still that bad, you can always just ban them

[vernal moth]

Not sure how VAC is related here?

[errant bridge]

I mean VAC-banned players are just allowed to join all non-VAC protected servers so it's not really a separate option from VAC

[mental meadow]

Then try to view online mode servers as vac enabled

[dapper pumice]

exactly this aurora 🙂

[sour orbit]

just realised offline mode servers dont have this

bye ty for the info

[mental meadow]

And funfact you can still report people on vac disabled servers

[errant bridge]

I mean I'm pretty sure non-VAC protected servers still have authentication... offline servers don't

[dapper pumice]

that's the difference here 🙂
but it's a problem of the offline-server-provider 😄

[mental meadow]

Now you only get multiplayer banned and not your account disabled when you groom children or threaten to shoot up a school

[fallen grotto]

that's how it should work yeah

but that's theory

[mental meadow]

No that's reality right now

[errant bridge]

I mean yeah sure the categories are a lot more reasonable now

[fallen grotto]

is it?

[mental meadow]

Again, reports have always been possible, just less secure, less verifiably, and with way more hassles

[dusky stump]

what would be considered a dex-based skill in Minecraft

[errant bridge]

I just wonder how many people will actually know that they are reasonable and not just have their information from the viral moment when everybody went "wtf" over the initial version

[golden gust]

1. The major people complaining about this are also shouting slurs at people who disagree, so, you know

[fallen grotto]

I just don't trust Microsoft

[golden gust]

2. Shamefully, like any company, their communication sucks, even if in some respect they geeenerally do a better job than many others, they still suck

[mental meadow]

Which we do tell them regularly

[golden gust]

3. to my understanding, stuff is still moving, they're still listening to feedback; people would do a much better job trying to address their concerns in the places they've pointed people to without the hot headedness

[errant bridge]

I mean I don't think many people would actually support the initial version... idk if I'm the crazy guy that both doesn't shout slurs and doesn't think the initial version was reasonable but I personally would expect many people to complain about it not knowing about the changes

[mental meadow]

Reports != Bans

[golden gust]

I mean, I'm not 100% on board with what they're doing

[ashen cliff]

https://posili.me/i/jRk3jAPL-2022-06-24_13-46-42.png

[golden gust]

We've been speaking to mojang about this to try to find reasonable ground given that mojang has to do something for various dozen reasons, i.e. this stuff is being expected of companies around the world by legislators

[errant bridge]

I mean personally I saw the initial version as particularly egregious because "profanity" was a category which then implied that you could get banned for saying shit

ofc now this is removed but I think that's a reasonable opinion

[mental meadow]

I don't think so

[golden gust]

We only stand for much of a voice, however; and this flipping the table over doesn't allow for any form of wiggle room onanything, as you can't really talk and discuss stuff if you're just flipping the table

(Also, wasn't fitmc part of the many groups intentionally tryna harass servers over the p2w stuff?)

[fallen grotto]

i don't feel like it's necessary to ban people from playing lan or something though

[mental meadow]

LoL for example has a report category for "negative attitude". You don't get banned for it, but people can still report you for it and after a while you get popups telling you to calm down

[mental meadow]

Yeah that name sounds very familiar

[fallen grotto]

Isn't alcohol on the list for reports or is that removed or got more clarification

Because like aren't there alcohol plugins (Brewery, ...)

[errant bridge]

yeah I just went off the first result I found when searching for "minecraft report system"

[mental meadow]

got more clarification

[fallen grotto]

ah

[worn ember]

in dota they just disable your coms lol

[fallen grotto]

it's sad that the community has to speak out to Microsoft so much to make them agree on something

[mild rune]

It's basically just don't try to convince people to do illegal acts with alcohol

[worn ember]

no chatting, or vc

[fallen grotto]

or at least for info

[fallen grotto]

ah no, we just have pubs with brewery

[mild rune]

I mean noting the report system is still being worked on, this is kinda expected since they're looking for feedback.

[fallen grotto]

where we do convince people do to illegal acts with alcohol ingame

but not irl

[mild rune]

If you don't do that then you're fine

[errant bridge]

tbh I have to wonder what the drugs stuff means exactly

[mental meadow]

The description for the “Drugs and alcohol” category has been updated to “Someone is encouraging others to partake in illegal drug related activities or encouraging underage drinking”

[errant bridge]

like they talk about "illegal drugs" but does that mean you can talk about consuming weed if you happen to be located in Canada ?

[worn ember]

what if your servers theme is cops and robbers and the robbers are planning a drug heist?

[mental meadow]

I think that mosttly really refers to encouraging minors to drink

[mild rune]

Just don't encourage minors to drink and you're fine

[worn ember]

its perfectly legal to drink at 16 here lol

still minor ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[worthy geode]

same

[green edge]

It's too nuanced for mojang to be able to do it right

[worthy geode]

Enforcing that is practically impossible with how many different rules there are

[errant bridge]

you live in gambia ?

[green edge]

and at the level people are invested into minecraft

[worn ember]

Belgium

[green edge]

I don't like Mojang allowing chat reports

Take 2b2t for example

[mental meadow]

They have always been allowed

[errant bridge]

oh i didn't see lol

[mental meadow]

god how often do i have to repeat myself

[green edge]

Yes, but now they're accessible in-game

[fallen grotto]

2b2t is not a clear server

[errant bridge]

wow in Germany you can drink beer and wine at 14 in public lmao

[worn ember]

69 more times plz ❤️

[worthy geode]

And even the 16 here is buying or consuming in public, there is no law on consuming in private

[green edge]

And one issue that I see is that context won't be passed over

[mental meadow]

not even true

[mild rune]

It will be

[worthy geode]

its 16

[green edge]

I wouldn't be surprised if people "ban-bait" people

Ask them to write something, they're dumb kids, they do

and they get banned

[mild rune]

They literally said more context was added to the reports

[worthy geode]

should be impossible due to context

[mild rune]

Please actually read the updates

[errant bridge]

However this age limit drops down to 14 if a minor is accompanied by a parent or legal guardian
oops didn't read the fine print

i saw the "14" and not the asterisk

[green edge]

Does context take non-chat input?

eg: what the user gets shown on a sign

[worthy geode]

Server IP yes

[green edge]

or in a book?

[fallen grotto]

isn't it 16 in belgium to buy alcohol

[worthy geode]

no

[green edge]

Well, that's what happens

[fallen grotto]

isn't consumation unrestricted

same goes for smoking but 18

[green edge]

Kids give you a book "Write this incantation (slurs in foreign language) to get whatever"

people do

[worthy geode]

People won't get banned for a single small offense

[worn ember]

eh idk, i think you have to be 16 to consume alcohol in public

[fallen grotto]

ah could be, i googled it once out of Interest

[green edge]

Do they have some guidelines on what their system will be?

[worn ember]

but if someone buys it for you and you drink it at home thats your issue really

[green edge]

Because I think some phrases regarding to self-harm or hate will get insta banned

[fallen grotto]

so many people drink it <16 at festivals though

[worthy geode]

also there is nothing about slurs in general in the new report reasons, just Harassment and bullying or hate speech which is a bit more extreme than slurs

[green edge]

Yeah, most countries deny purchase, not consumption

[worn ember]

yeah, they dont really care

[fallen grotto]

like they ask someone to buy it

ye

[green edge]

You can have racial slurs which go under hate speech

[worn ember]

most even serve to underage at parties haha

[golden gust]

Casual reminder that the drinking age in the UK for private places is 5

[fallen grotto]

lmao

[worthy geode]

seems reasonable

[green edge]

Also, what happens if they're using on-click messages

[worn ember]

gotta get that root beer for growing

[errant bridge]

I mean most countries just don't have a drinking age at all if you're in private

[green edge]

Eg: You have a sign, right click here for whatever

and then your client starts spewing some racist slurs about killing inferior races or whatever

insta ban

With the large spectrum of people in this game

it will happen

[grim island]

> places a sign ‘type in chat text from this book’
> person types that
> report them
> they get banned because this wasn't in context
we do a little trolling

[errant bridge]

I think those can't happen without a / being there anymore

[worn ember]

/msg ezz

[errant bridge]

although idk if it indicates what you're going to write

[mild rune]

I'm saving my critiques of the system until it's fully implemented and in a proper release version ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[green edge]

I just see this very difficult to handle, I guess mojang got forced by their PR team

[worn ember]

idk just seems stupid that they want to enforce shit like that, just do it on realms and leave us out of it

[green edge]

But it's going to be a major effort for small results in my opinion

People that want to bend the rules always will

[tough jewel]

I'm pretty sure here it's illegal to buy drinks if you're underage but if someone who can buy one gives you one in a private place it's okay

here being turkey

[errant bridge]

eeyup:

[worn ember]

here being most places

[golden gust]

Well, purchasing drnks and chugging in private is two seperate things

legal age for purchase in the UK is 16 with a meal or 18

[errant bridge]

doesn't seem to let people exactly what they're about to send though which I'd say is obviously the real problem...

since that'd mean you'd now have to be paranoid of triggering any command ever

[green edge]

This is going to be very complicated

[worthy geode]

in the netherlands, buying something for someone else who is below the drinking age is illegal, but I doubt that can be enforced in any way

[worn ember]

whats the age to get stoned?

[errant bridge]

And if there's a way for the client to say "this was an automated message the server told me to send" (for example if /say is supposed to be an indicator of this) then that's gonna obviously be abused by people who want to avoid reports on require-secure-profiles servers

[tough jewel]

anyhow it's really unenforcable and I have a feeling this will be smth like p2w servers which mojang doesn't do anything about until the last second

they can't handle support emails (2 month+ long queue last time I contacted them) how would they handle chat reports?

[worn ember]

just talk shit from discords that are bridged

[worthy geode]

18, the law is really weird, its technically still illegal but tolerated in certain circumstances or something

[worn ember]

[green edge]

They had so much better ways of dealing with this, like a filter for chat messages

But not outright banning multyplayer

[tough jewel]

the first time I contacted them I waited for 4 months then they sent me links to useless FAQ pages and stopped responding to replies under that support email

[celest rune]

guys what a f is going on with Microsoft

[errant bridge]

This system breaks many private server functions, like plugins, so it is doubtful that most servers will use it aside from vanilla or plugin-light servers.

• Hypixel staff
  I guess that's gonna make this much less likely then...

[tough jewel]

not like roblox tho

roblox' filters are bad

[vernal moth]

Plugins will update?

[fallen grotto]

roblox isn't a good company either

[celest rune]

I'm never updating my server to 1.19.x

[vernal moth]

Cool, nobody cares

[mental meadow]

cool, then you won't get any support here in the future^^

[mild rune]

Thinking 1.19 and lower will save you from reports

[errant bridge]

That's gonna be painful...

[mild rune]

I sense the old report system will still exist in some way

[tough jewel]

the idea of having a whitelist for underage (13-) and a blacklist for not underage (13+) is actually not bad if executed well

[vernal moth]

Of course

[errant bridge]

ofc lol

[celest rune]

Cool, but you still cared to respond 🙂

[worthy geode]

Lots of (bad) chat plugins send system messages, so I see the point

[mild rune]

Yeah then staying on an outdated version because "you can't be reported" is dumb

[errant bridge]

System messages can't be sent at all on a require-secure-profiles server ??

[tough jewel]

anyhow I hope they fix this and the P2W report google form thing cuz that's stupid and just hire more support email employees cuz queue times are too long

[chrome quest]

So the responsibility of how people speak on my server is being stripped from me?

[worthy geode]

no, they work just fine

but they can't be reported

[mental meadow]

their commercial usage reports team is pretty good

it's just that a lot of people don't really read the commercial usage guidelines and just report servers anyway

[green edge]

There's plenty of ways to do that, provide server admins the ability to "suggest" messages

There's so much things that can be done to do this properly, but not a report from the players

Because what will happen is bullying

Children are easily influenced by others, and while platforms like Discord have the full context because their system allows it, Minecraft won't

So some kid may be "dared" to say something in some foreign language, or be cussed in non-verified avenues

[chrome quest]

Abuse of the system will happen. I’d prefer if I could opt my server out of it, even if that meant kids couldn’t join it.

[green edge]

to get their account baned

[tough jewel]

idk I never saw a clearly P2W server get banned other than one popular example that I forgot

[vernal moth]

This topic is boring, this system is coming, there is nothing you can do about that, only thing you can do is constructive feedback to improve the system

[green edge]

Mojang allows non-competitive perks, like /fly, /kits, etc, as long as they don't give a direct advantage

[mental meadow]

because P2W is not always against the rules

[celest rune]

time to sell my account and switch to cracked version

[tough jewel]

I said clearly P2W, I'm aware, but in that case those are clear advantages

[worthy geode]

the bans could be very easily bypassed for some time (until 1.16?) with SRV records

[mental meadow]

okay, maybe i should have clarified

that team is good now

[green edge]

But allowed by the EULA nonetheless. They blocked P2W, but they don't block perks on servers with no clear purpose

Like Survival

[golden gust]

mojangs thing is generally slow and much is going on, I've seen people screaming about P2W on servers which really aren't, but, I mean, that gets objective and mojang doesn't always agree with randomers on the internet

[green edge]

Yeah, P2W drama has become a way to justify griefing, cheating, etc

In many cases in my opinion

[worthy geode]

I feel like their enforcement has helped though, there were a lot more servers with really bad pay2win before the changes

[green edge]

While the people that did have predatory practices are rarely noticed

[worthy geode]

e.g. 2014 vs now

[tough jewel]

does being able to buy ranks that give you highly enchanted gear that is otherwise unobtainable in a pvp game mode where that is clearly an advantage count?

[green edge]

There is a server I won't name that sells limited edition cosmetics that they kind of brand as a potential investment on the long term. It's not giving any advantage but the "potential of growdth"

[worthy geode]

Well, cosmetics are fine

[green edge]

Well, yes

But not with gamble mechanics

[worthy geode]

limited edition, investment or whatever does not matter

[green edge]

and "This will be worth 100x"

[golden gust]

as said, mojang is slow, depends on the nature of the gear, etc, theres many aspects involved

mojang gets thousands of reports a day, they have to prioritise, etc, etc

[tough jewel]

their support email team is great other than that they are too small, people there are really trained and they know what they need to know, and get things fixed quickly once they actually respond which takes months

so all they need is more people, the existing people are trained well

[green edge]

Didn't they offsource the EULA commercial compliance work?

[mild rune]

All the times I've contacted support they've been fast. I usually get a resolution within a week.

[errant bridge]

Also tbh I gotta say that I'm still worried to some degree because "just trust Microsoft to have good moderation staff" isn't exactly something I'd bet much on

[green edge]

Yes, definetly not ideal, maybe if they had some intermediary update to test the waters before going straight to bans

that would be better

Or allowing servers to have different PG options

[worthy geode]

I don't agree with their approach, but I can live with the current system

[tough jewel]

idk I contacted them three times, the first took 4 months, the second one got a response like 6 months later but that was okay cuz apparently they were moving their email and I contacted them at just the wrong time to go unnoticed, and the third time took like 6-7 weeks

[golden gust]

at the end of the day, you're running under mojangs platform using mojang services with mojangs branding on it

[green edge]

Risks of running anything on somebody else's platform

[tough jewel]

this could also be that account support takes more time

[golden gust]

like many other dozen companies in such a state they're being expected to add systems in place or face being reguluated to all shit

(This is literally why companies like facebook, twitter, etc all ASK to be regulated by the US government)

[green edge]

Yeah, I agree with you, I think this was more of a mandated change than their intention

I just feel that censorship or harsh punitive measures are not the solution

[errant bridge]

At the end of the day it seems logical to consider Minecraft special in the sense that it's one of the few games with fully-independant servers

[golden gust]

either companies take their own steps into doing stuff or government entities come along and force something likely harder on them

[green edge]

In the end, I think it's a wait and see game

They probabbly know they're stepping on loose grounds and will take this slow.

[errant bridge]

Server owners maintain hardware, network and everything needed to get the servers running and the sole and only role Mojang plays in all of that is to certify that someone owns Minecraft

[green edge]

As much as some hate Mojang, they're a pretty responsible and ethical company.

[golden gust]

server owners also have a license to use mojangs property under the license that they agreed to and the stipulations within

[chrome quest]

This definitely feels like an overstep on Microsoft’s part

[errant bridge]

I mean sure, but not many people are gonna feel good about any perceived encroachment on Mojang's part upon fully independent server owners

The way it works it's essentially just Mojang pretending a banned player doesn't own Minecraft...

[worthy geode]

well, they made the game

[green edge]

Yes, to be honest I think it's a bit strange they ban all multyplayer

[worthy geode]

that seems rather important

[golden gust]

They're not fully independent is the literal point

[green edge]

Because it's a part of the game they do advertise as providing

and they're selling you a license, not renting you one

[golden gust]

They rely on the license that they have with mojang allowing them to use it within the stipulations

[mental meadow]

A license which they can revoke at any time without any reason

[green edge]

So from a juridic standpoint, not sure if what they do'll hold in some jurisdictions

[green edge]

Can they though?

[worthy geode]

yes

[errant bridge]

yes

[golden gust]

Yes

[green edge]

For playing or servers?

[golden gust]

Anything

[worthy geode]

pretty much everyone has terms for that in their license agreement

and you agreed to that when buying the game

[mental meadow]

They can, legally speaking, straight up disable your account

[green edge]

Issue here is that there are multiple jurisdictions and countries that mojang sells towards, and each have their own laws

For example in Romania, disabling a paid application license without reason wouldn't be allowed

[worthy geode]

they have Microsofts lawyers behind them, im pretty sure that its 100% legally sound

[errant bridge]

technically Microsoft could also decide you don't get to use Windows because they don't like you

[mental meadow]

Well they have a reason^^

[green edge]

There's a difference between legally sound and acceptable due to risk

[green edge]

They can't. Anti-Monopoly law

[worthy geode]

the result is the same though

[golden gust]

There are certain rules and regs all around the world but theres generally an allowance for tearing a license up if a party violates it

[chrome quest]

If a company decides to not follow a countries laws then they don’t get to do business in said country anymore

[green edge]

When you hold a product that makes it's own ecosystem, such as Microsoft, you can't go ahead and ban people from using your OS because "I want so"

[green edge]

Ah, of course, you violate something you're out

[worthy geode]

I mean, you can try to go to court against them, but considering the worth of the product is just 25€, there is a good chance it will be dismissed instantly because its too minor

[green edge]

But most countries have consumer laws protecting abusive contractual clauses

[mental meadow]

that's not an abusive contract clause lol

[chrome quest]

Small claims court

[coarse venture]

Are we talking about going to court over getting banned in a game where community members report someone?

[green edge]

I can remove your license to my product, that you may or may not rely on for whatever, whenever I want, if i want, and for what reason (or none) i want

is abusive

[mental meadow]

anyway I started ranting on twitter as well because y'all made me too https://twitter.com/aurora_smiles_/status/1540309676713205760

[worthy geode]

maybe, but legal

[green edge]

for example there are educational institutions using Minecraft for their educational projects

[mental meadow]

You are breaking the license by not following the community standards

They have a reason

[green edge]

Obviously microsoft can ban some uses, but not all of them, and especially with most countries

[golden gust]

legality varies around the world, generally you can't tear a license up just because

[green edge]

You can't "change your terms" when you want whenever yu want

[golden gust]

but, violating the agreement is generally a valid reason to tear up a virtual piece of paper

[coarse venture]

It's pretty simple, if you dont agree to their updated terms, you're free as within your right to not agree and stop using their services/products.

[green edge]

Yeah, for commercial they have legal grounds

[green edge]

Nope, you paid for a lifetime license

[coarse venture]

Agreeing to it, means you simply agree. And life goes on.

[green edge]

So it doesn't go like that

[golden gust]

There are specific rules and such for changing the license

[coarse venture]

Yeah kinda does, 😄

[golden gust]

last time they changed it they added a eula.txt file

[coarse venture]

the license changes, you agree, you're free to not agree anymore.

[green edge]

Yes, agreed, but they're still bound by the old agreement

[worthy geode]

no

[green edge]

Which if it doesn't have a set time limit, is forever

[coarse venture]

Discussing 'going to court' over this is just showing how rediculous the conversation is in the first place.

[coarse venture]

ok saul goodman

[worthy geode]

because the old agreement surely includes a part about updating the agreement

[green edge]

It's not, it's a matter of principle, censorship, and monopolistic practices

Mojang is fine, they're not overstepping

[smoky cloud]

“censorship”

[coarse venture]

lol

[golden gust]

Hey, floris

[green edge]

but in general, the world doesn't work in the way that you're allowed to do whatever you want because you're a multi-billion dollar corporation

[golden gust]

svrew you

[mental meadow]

Yes, so please explain why do I not get my 5% interest on my old savings account anymore?

[golden gust]

I'll see you in court.

[coarse venture]

oh yeah, totally 😄

[green edge]

Depends on terms the bank, national law, central bank regulations

If they said that the 5% is a promotion that holds for 1 year after opening an account, obviously after that you're out

Or if they say that they hold the right to notify you 3 months in advance that they're stopping to provide that

[golden gust]

many banks over here stopped giving interest rates on accounts cos of some weird law changes

[mental meadow]

Please name one example where you still get your interest rates from 10 20 years ago and the bank is not legally able to change it, because I have not found one

[coarse venture]

There isn't one.

[green edge]

Look at central banks and banks' deposits

Although generally terms aren't made to allow you to have the same interest rate for a long time, since it's not profitable

[mental meadow]

same with the mojang terms

[worthy geode]

Banks aren't stupid, at least if they want to make money.
I don't think its fair, and I agree with your criticism of monopolys, but sadly thats how the world currently works

[coarse venture]

Hear me out, everybody that's crying over this beyond reasonable discussion; gang up! start a class action suit out of principle and get a judge to agree. I mean, if you're right, you're right!

[mental meadow]

shocking, I know

[green edge]

In law, there's a difference between what is legal, what presents low risk of litigation, what is good for business to do to scare people away, and what isn't

[coarse venture]

Everybody else, let's just enjoy some Minecraft 😄

[vernal moth]

Beer has been aquired

[coarse venture]

MiniBoat

[dapper pumice]

that's smoll

[golden gust]

itt: german drinks beer, channel shocked

[errant bridge]

I mean that's not what's meant here... ofc legally they can pretty much do anything but if, say, they started charging servers for the privilege of running a server people would shit on them with good reason despite them legally having the right to do so
(note: I'm not saying this is equivalent at all to the current chat report situation, just that it inherently puts anything perceived as Mojang taking advantage of their position in a bad light)

[mild rune]

mmm beer

[dapper pumice]

1L of Weißbier would be better

[golden gust]

well, either mojang works on it or places like the US gov, etc, start writing legislation on it

[coarse venture]

I think Mojang should double down and require everybody to use dns1.multiplayer.mojang.com and dns2.multiplayer.mojang.com !! haha

[golden gust]

whom would you rather deal with, mojang or the EU?

[green edge]

EU

100%

[worthy geode]

having democratic institutions deal with it is certainly better than some company

but they are slow, so until they do, Mojang it is

[errant bridge]

I mean I'm not as enthusiastic as Stefatorus over here but I gotta say I'm not exactly going to hop on the "do rash things to avoid the government doing so" train anytime soon

[golden gust]

casual reminder, article 13

[coarse venture]

Discord has this block feature, and i just falsly blocked you .. out of principle i think you should cause some fuss over that to discord. because you probably signed up before they had the block feature - anyway, ..

[green edge]

GDPR is honestly great in my opinion. I want to know where my data goes, and do want the right to know what others hold on me.

[worthy geode]

that was a lot drama for very little impact in the end tbh

[golden gust]

because the implicated clauses where neatened out iirc

[coarse venture]

Oh, new episode of for all mankind, bbl

[golden gust]

they originally worded it in a manner which would pretty much kill memes iirc

[green edge]

Article 13 is GDPR

isn't that another article

for copyright?

[golden gust]

No, that was article 13

[dusty canopy]

hey , im facing a problem in my bungee cord server where all users have same ip so when i ip ban someone every one gets banned
and yes and made sure that ip forwording is true and in spigot setings and i sat my server ip to 127.0.0.1
extra info : im runing my server on ubuntu

[golden gust]

GDPR also came under the ame article maybe?

[errant bridge]

no

it was a completely separate thing

[green edge]

Ah

[worthy geode]

nope, also Article 13 was part of a directive, the GDPR is a regulation

[green edge]

Directive on Copyright in the Digital Single Market

[dapper pumice]

asked here already but never reacted to Malfador

[green edge]

Yeah, that was indeed contested and for good grounds I believe

[uncut steppe]

does anyone know where I can find paying plugin requests? kinda like the one in spigot forums but for more options

[golden gust]

but yea, part of the joys of gov entities regulating on stuff is that they generally a mixture of having 0 clues of wtf they're regulating and often work with large corpos

[dusty canopy]

i didnt see any respond

[green edge]

mc-market, but anything minecraft money related is very high risk

so take care

[golden gust]

Which is why companies like facebook WANT regulation for this stuff as it lets them make something which benefits them

[green edge]

in US yes, in EU less

[uncut steppe]

is it against tos or sth?

[green edge]

No, but people scam and overstate their abilities

Most people passionate about the game are between 7 and 18, the average developers you find online are 14-15

[uncut steppe]

well yeah

[mental meadow]

I'm calling it now btw, Mojang will be forced to introduce some sort of privacy tools as well in the future because similar to the current situation most server owners don't follow local regulations

[uncut steppe]

I'm the dev tho

[golden gust]

casual reminder that most of the people whom are writing regulations on this stuff left school as the BBC computers where hype

[uncut steppe]

I'm just looking to make some money while also studying CS

[green edge]

That's fine, as long as there's a law around it I'd be happy. I like the idea of having global punishments, if done right

[mental meadow]

Spigot forums are a good place imo

[worthy geode]

directives just tell the EU members that they should work on laws that follow the directive, with quite a lot of leeway, while regulations like the GDPR are real laws. So all the drama about Article 13 was also a bit too early

[mental meadow]

well, good is relative

[uncut steppe]

do you know any other too?

[green edge]

There's bucket of crabs

for hiring people for the long term

There's help-chat and other discords that provide "requesting-paid" ads

Several "service teams" that hire kids to do comissions, there's plenty of things

It depends on what you want (hobby, server for small audiences, large project), and what your budget is

[golden gust]

spigot, MCM, fiver, etc, etc

[green edge]

because each has it's pros and cons

[worthy geode]

tf is bucket of crabs lol

[green edge]

place where marketplace teams hire

[golden gust]

Theres many dozen places, as said, many of them you really need to be weary of whom you're hiring

[green edge]

https://www.bucketofcrabs.net/

[uncut steppe]

I want to be hired

[golden gust]

Depends on what you're offering, etc

the market places is generally a competition to the bottom

[worthy geode]

minecraft servers have become so professional lol

[green edge]

Some people juggle 20k+ eur monthly

so yeah, they did

Not sure how of a good idea it is that the game has turned so commercial, especially since java is barely regulated for unfair practices

[errant bridge]

more like it hasn't even come into effect yet

[green edge]

And I feel that places young individuals spend a lot of time on hold a large influence on their development

[errant bridge]

23 countries still haven't passed laws for it so they've in a legal battle with the EU over it rn

[green edge]

And unfortunately I've seen too many people abuse that for their self benefit

[green edge]

Technically EU law is law in the EU countries too

[errant bridge]

this is a directive not a law

[green edge]

Article 13?

or GDPR?

[worthy geode]

article 13

[errant bridge]

article 13

[green edge]

ah

yeah

EU politics are complex

[errant bridge]

oh wait no the ECJ has ruled on article 13 recently

The Court acknowledged that Article 17’s [(yes they added more articles before the directive passed)] obligation to review content constitutes a de facto requirement to use automatic recognition and filtering tools, and held that such mechanisms would indeed constitute an interference with users’ freedom of expression rights

[green edge]

Well, one part of the article falls

[errant bridge]

the court side-stepped the most pressing issue though yeah

[green edge]

Which one?

[errant bridge]

whether an automated system that can "distinguish adequately between unlawful content and lawful content" is even a thing that can exist

if it can't then the article can't be enforced since an inadequate filter would violate the obligation to ensure availability of lawful uploads

[green edge]

That's very difficult to decide in a court of law

[errant bridge]

yeah ofc

[green edge]

Because it depends on technical aspects that may change in time

[errant bridge]

Also they noted that "Platform providers cannot be forced to 'generally monitor' user content to check the legality of content"

[golden gust]

stuff like that is why large corpo's wanted a hand in the US gov creating this stuff

[green edge]

Without knowing the context, the excerpt you gave shows their concern: that having to review individuals with automatic tools can hinder freedom of expression

[golden gust]

These companies have long been working on tools to do such stuff and have automated some stuff already

Really kills upstarting competition if you legally require competators to have tech you've been working on for 10 years on their platforms

[green edge]

The issue I see with countries allowing companies to take part in affairs more than giving professional opinions is that it pushes regulation towards their own self interest. Look at right to repair and how much Apple/ John Deere was against it until the last moment. Not to mention standardizing the chargers for phones

[fallen grotto]

ight i've seen the newest rules from Minecraft and i'm not that against it anymore

[golden gust]

well, RTR is a fun one

[fallen grotto]

just looks like it needed feedback

[golden gust]

They where against it, and still are

[fallen grotto]

tractor repair cost is insane

[golden gust]

Much of their conceeding right now is tryna show "but, we don't need gov to step in!"

[fallen grotto]

farmers already struggle with money and other restrictions

[golden gust]

Like, even with apples repair program, if you wanna replace a screen you gotta end up on a call to them to get the phone reprogrammed OTA

[green edge]

Exactly the issue why companies shouldn't have regulatory power, either through paid influence (Lobbying), or direct ability to ask specific regulations to be removed

[fallen grotto]

isn't apple repair with fixit now?

which is still expensive but less expensive (and way better for the environment)

[golden gust]

afaik no?

[fallen grotto]

oh

[golden gust]

but, I never looked into it

the price for parts is fairly on par

[fallen grotto]

i thought fixit became an official repair thing for apple

[golden gust]

Like, you can defo get it cheaper/faster outside of their services, but, you're not paying much for it outside of that

[mild rune]

Nah they're with some other vendor

Valve is using iFixit as the Steamdeck vendor

[golden gust]

I mean, many companies act as authrorised service centres for repair

[green edge]

Take another european initiative, forcing all mobile devices to use USB Type C

[fallen grotto]

yeah i mean that apple allows ifixit to do it

[radiant fable]

Electroniccat are paper devs working on a new build for 1.19, or are the initial builds the final ones

[dusty canopy]

hey , im facing a problem in my bungee cord server where all users have same ip so when i ip ban someone every one gets banned
and yes and made sure that ip forwording is true and in spigot setings and i sat my server ip to 127.0.0.1
extra info : im runing my server on ubuntu

[fallen grotto]

when i ip ban someone everyone gets banned 😂

first time i heard that

[golden gust]

I mean, we're always working on new builds, theres like 100 different builds for 1.18.2

[fallen grotto]

maybe they're all alts

[dusty canopy]

no thats common

search it

[green edge]

bungee-mode: true, in the spigot.yml

[fallen grotto]

ah

[dusty canopy]

if you read i said that i did

[green edge]

and forwarding to true in bungee

[golden gust]

Generally, check network setup, most cases of people having the wrong IP is failure to configure the proxy up properly or using another proxy which mangles stuff

how are people connecting to the server, with the IP which directly points to the bungee server?

[dusty canopy]

i use ubuntu what can i do about network

[radiant fable]

Ah alright, cus this smp im on is having crazy lag problems on 1.19 due to entities (128gb server ram with about 30 players online)

[green edge]

bungeecord to true (spigot.yml)
ip_forward: true (bungee config)

and restart both

It should fix your issues if it is from minecraft and not something else

[dusty canopy]

thanks for youre help but ive already did these steps

[green edge]

Can you explain how your network works?

Do people connect through a proxy (haproxy, nginx, etc)

[dusty canopy]

all the players joning joins with the server ip

[golden gust]

new builds won't magically fix performance issues, #paper-help and provide timings, etc

[dusty canopy]

hmmm idk what are thesse

[golden gust]

bungee logs?

[radiant fable]

Alright thanks ill ask a server admin to come around

[dusty canopy]

what are haproxy ?

[golden gust]

it's. aproxy for load balancing, etc

if you don't know what it is you're probably not using it

[dusty canopy]

yes im not using it

[golden gust]

are you using a 3rd party DDoS service or something?

[green edge]

Do you use anything to protect against DDOS (TCPShield, GRE tunnel, etc)?

[dusty canopy]

no basic ubuntu firewall

[golden gust]

how are you hosting the server?

[green edge]

My first suggestion would be giving the logs, we check those

[dusty canopy]

localhost ubuntu server

[green edge]

They should hint to what the issue is

[green edge]

If you're hosting locally, your own IP will be 127.0.0.1

Others should have other IPs though

[dusty canopy]

no i have done port forwording and everything is working and the server is opened for public

[dapper pumice]

logs?

[dusty canopy]

sure which part of logs do yo uneed ?

[green edge]

Where people connect, and plugins you may have

[dusty canopy]

like when a player join

to the main lobby

[green edge]

on both the server, and bungee

so we can see the whole flow

also, if you can send us configs for bungee, and spigot.yml

that'd be great, we can check those too

[dusty canopy]

ok sure

[crystal lily]

Please send large files/logs to a pastebin

[dusty canopy]

https://paste.gg/p/anonymous/55724398b8a44fa59b76c09c19a670a4

this is the spigot.yml

and this is the bungee one

https://paste.gg/p/anonymous/10a9659373f040d4bf41b80882fd2eea

[dapper pumice]

offline mode?

[dusty canopy]

yes for cracked mc

[green edge]

That doesn't affect it

[mental meadow]

Piracy is not supported here

[dusty canopy]

ofline mode is made by minecraft :).

[green edge]

offline mode != cracked mc

[mental meadow]

great. See our community guidelines.

[dusty canopy]

ok its for testing not for cracked mc

[dusty canopy]

did you find anything wrong ?

[green edge]

No, we need the logs

[dusty canopy]

fine where exactly in the log ?

[mental meadow]

dude, you literally just admitted to using offline mode for non legitimate uses. At least try if you don't want to get kicked

[latent flint]

This person has got to be trolling lol

[green edge]

Join, and plugins

[mental meadow]

Also, not the right channel for support

[green edge]

Also yeah let's move to #paper-help

[dusty canopy]

bruh just let me get help

a mod that is trying to stop me at every chance , Cool !!

[mild rune]

maybe don't be a pirate then?

[dusty canopy]

i dont pirate i play mc on an orginal paid account

[mental meadow]

or you know just follow our rules

[dapper pumice]

and your players? 😄

[dusty canopy]

my players not me

[green edge]

lmao

[mental meadow]

!kick @dusty canopy Piracy is not welcome here, read our community guidelines.

[thorny flicker]

:raised_hands: Kicked IloveT#2189 (Piracy is not welcome here, read our community guidelines.) [1 total infraction] -- aurora#4484.

[green edge]

Do you think he was a troll?

[latent flint]

Oh yeah, definitely a troll

[green edge]

Yeah, new account

By the way, what do you all believe needs work in the minecraft community?

Been doing Minecraft comercially for 5 years now, but planning to take a step back, however I want to provide some of the things I've did pro-bono

So if there's anything technical that the community can benefit from, i can try help with that

[twin lagoon]

the community

[green edge]

Well, not something I can help with

[twin lagoon]

[green edge]

Don't think anybody can change it really

maybe mojang can guide it

but that's about it

[mental meadow]

soon™️

[potent wedge]

Finally I can listen to Miku but I VIP

[mental meadow]

I do hope it get's a slightly bigger discount but I doubt it lol

[potent wedge]

What songs are even in that, just random things or popular ones, recent ones? Classics??

[mental meadow]

I will tell you as soon as it is downloaded

or https://www.gamepretty.com/hatsune-miku-project-diva-mega-mix-all-songs-list-inc-extra-song-pack-dlc/

[potent wedge]

Oh only the Japanese ones cool

[royal kernel]

When a new version of Minecraft releases, is applying the patches more of just slightly modifying them to work with the new version, or do you have to rewrite a lot of them from scratch?

[golden gust]

depends

for the most part it's just reapplying them/filtering out trivial noise

[tropic flame]

so many emojis on the embed description i thought you were sharing a piracy website

[golden gust]

theres some which may need to be rewritten, etc

[real zealot]

@warm anchor

[golden gust]

eternity is mine

back off

[real zealot]

No!

[dapper pumice]

Exchange for beer

[potent wedge]

Naw eternity needs to explain why the anime girl from their profile pic randomly shows up in random places on my phone

[void void]

the weebness has infested your phone

[golden gust]

||it's like gono but fun||

[mental meadow]

did you mean Rie

[twin lagoon]

no

[golden gust]

I mean, I've talked about much of the concepts before but they often fall into the same set of issues

[void void]

the master server concept seems like a bit of a single point of failure

[golden gust]

You're pretty much always gonna have a single point of failure with this stuff

Unless you're getting deeper into the stuff I've talked about, it's generally a mess

Like, really, what you wanna do, is just rip out vanillas chunk system and replace it with something which is like, designed for instancing

[mental meadow]

ok I refunded it it's shit lol

[golden gust]

ofc, that involves a muuuuch more involved tech stack

[potent wedge]

Lmao

[golden gust]

Like, you're gonna need a single source of truth for world gen cos that's not 100% determinate, so you'd have horrible chunk gen if you didn't, unless you rewrote that

[mental meadow]

to be fair I never played one of the Miku games yet but idk like usually with things like muse dash or osu you hit the thingies based of the melody but in that game it was more based on the voice??? super weird

[potent wedge]

So you sung???

Yeah I'm not doing that

[mental meadow]

nooo not singing

[golden gust]

no

many things are still random based, i.e. tree population

go //regen a forest

[mental meadow]

but like instead of hitting the buttons to the beat or the melody it was like hitting the buttons on the lyrics

[golden gust]

I mean, if they're doing it remotely sanely, yes

[potent wedge]

Better than actually singing shivers

[golden gust]

The biggest issue for these projects is the biggest reason why they're viable

I've written much stuff about this over the years in public channels

Take a look at literally every single "start from scratch" server impl, they have the exact same issues

if you're not willing to rewrite the chunk generation logic, you're pretty much gonna be bound to the single server doing gen stuff

Which is my point.

Downfall of not rewriting chunk gen, is that you're bound to a single server doing that, which leaves a core issue: vanilla chunk gen is slow as balls

It's a pretty large barrier to scalability

Yes, you're offloading everything else, but you're still leaving one of the biggest issues in play

It is, but chunk gen is still slow as balls

that doesn't happen, basically

chunk gen is still mostly single threaded as solving that issue is somewhat complex

Because mojang doesn't care about this

feature generation in general is fairly random iirc

Chunk gen has never been 100% deterministic, noise is due to how the algo works, etc

It's just not something anybody ever cared about, and in itself is somewhat nuanced as chunk borders are arse

that makes 0 sense

not something mojang cares about and now you're eating more CPU cycles

the chunk system is also fairly complex which creates its own set of fun issues

The chunk system being complex in some aspects is why it's nice

Just wish it didn't seem as overengineered as it is

I mean, the chunk system has always been relatively complex, just much of it was hidden away and relied upon discarding stuff it didn't care about as much

then they got to the point where they did start storing that info, paper however did discard it at that point as it didn't make too much sense to keep it at that point

Then they added the entire ticketing system was was a blessing and a curse

that ticketing system is what allowed us to implement the simulated view distance logic

(which mojang then added to vanilla)

50 players is weak

generally, check timings, etc

look into spark reports, etc

I mean, entities do kinda suck

but, entities have always been a fairly heavy hit on servers, most of taming them comes down to sane settings, etc

Well, yea, entities suck in general

villagers fucking butcher servers

[warm anchor]

Villagers are a lot more complex so yeah

[golden gust]

villagers have much complex logic

Like, really what you'd wanna do is invest the effort into just stripping them down

But, ofc, theres so many behaviors of villagers that people rely on that it creates its own headache

Well, redstone is easy

Like, relatively, redstone sucked donkey and did lots of stupid needless updates

that's pretty much all of what the rewrites do

(and why they're so breaky without "hax")

[warm anchor]

You can slow them down already on paper

[golden gust]

Like, the entire redstone improvements is to 1) improve the way that redstone "paths", 2) reduce the number of useless updates that they do

2. is the breaky point, however

[warm anchor]

But like cat said even then it is still going to break certain expectation your player have of how they behave

[golden gust]

those mods have to restore some level of pointless updates in order to keep vanilla mechanics working

[warm anchor]

Tick-rate in paper-world-defaults.yml you can slow down thier aquirepoi

[spiral robin]

@viral hornet

[warm anchor]

Entity rewrite would be nice but idk if anyone would want choice pain and suffering doing it

[golden gust]

See timings

it records information about what is ticking for them

[viral hornet]

[golden gust]

and yea, villagers not having POIs around will hurt

Once they find a POI they shouldn't be searching for them

[lament patio]

Unfortunate that the villager optimization PRs kind of died down

[golden gust]

only PR I see hasn't been maintained and afaik much of it was replaced by other stuff in the server which optimises much more

[green edge]

Can searching be rate limited?

[warm anchor]

?ban @torpid pivot pride troll is not welcomed. Pride is not a political statement but a call of support to basic human rights.

[thorny flicker]

:raised_hands: Banned Narnacle#6943 (pride troll is not welcomed. Pride is not a political statement but a call of support to basic human rights.) [1 total infraction] -- EterNity#0001.

[golden gust]

Yes, using the behavior limits

You can control how often that stuff can tick

[green edge]

Well, that may solve it, if you have a max of 20 searches in 5 minutes

[golden gust]

Well, it doesn't work like that

it's basically a bunch of tasks which run every tick for the most part by default

[green edge]

Is it how often in ticks to run the behavior?

[golden gust]

yes

[green edge]

Ah

[golden gust]

and ofc, those things can have wider implications on farms, etc, is part of the joyous issue

[green edge]

I know, but I think with the large amount of behavior

[golden gust]

players rarely understand the mechanics in play too much which also creates its own set of issues

[green edge]

Some of it can be removed without players noticing

[golden gust]

issue in part is that these entities are just stupidly complex and really, somebody just needs to disable their AI and write a plugin which aims to implement the minimal stuff people care about

[green edge]

To be honest it depends much on the server's gameplay and expectancies players have

Lag is a feature for 2b2t, for example

[green edge]

Modularity, maybe just have a plugin to modify behavior to allow tuning each mob by type

Shouldn't be too hard, unsure about if it needs reflection and how many people want it backwards compatible with ancient versions

Did paper implement anything to simplify fiddling with entity behavior?

[golden gust]

Theres a WIP thing but it's in this weird area of figuring out some stuff

idk if it covers behavior specifically, I know it touches the brain

[little frost]

eternity's first ban???

[warm anchor]

I ban a few from internal chat before just the obv one

That guy also made a fess in MOSS discord before coming here so I recognize his name

[little frost]

@ripe sphinx can you believe this

[warm anchor]

[novel horizon]

aw i missed it again

what did they say?

[warm anchor]

Calling the act of supporting LGBT a political statement (he made comment on server logo)

He did that on other discord before coming here

[novel horizon]

huh

funny

[pale robin]

everything in the world folder is important

playerdata = inventory & location

advancements = advancements

[warm anchor]

Zip the world folder will be the easiest solution

[pale robin]

im gona assume its a size issue , or else he would just do that

[solemn crescent]

Yes, I will zip it but before that wanted to make sure that a player is going to need every files/folder in order to run this world in his own pc

[warm anchor]

Those should work

[pale robin]

then just zip it the entire folder

[warm anchor]

But if you have plugin that store their home location (home plugin) it gets tricky

As you will also need to give those away

[green edge]

@warm anchor I think some people come from non western countries, so I guess it's lack of knowledge or not understanding the western culture.

Isn't it better to find preventive measures than banning?

[pale robin]

he could get the coords from the essentials file if he uses that

[solemn crescent]

Nah, I don't want to share plugins. Just the world. Rest they should find their own home location or just tamper with other player builds 😄

[vernal moth]

Moood

[warm anchor]

They have an established channel for ban appeal and I listed the reason clearly so it should be fine

[mental meadow]

this is not a place to educate people, they can use the internet for that if they want to

[green edge]

Yeah, I know

[coarse venture]

aurora, you can't stop me from educating people! but dont worry, im usually wrong anyway

hm, something new on apple tv+ lol, "loot", lets give it a glance.

[silver nexus]

Mojang made it onto trend, rn that's pretty impressive.

[golden gust]

I mean, I do personally strive to push people intowards offering understanding, you can't dogpile on somebody and expect them to go research