general

[smoky cloud]

Windows is still Windows, shocker

[void void]

windows 11 is a spinoff of windows 10

[golden gust]

But, even then, they probs don't care as much as the culture shock of using linux

[void void]

basically

[worthy geode]

all on my laptop though, so maybe they feel better on a bigger screen, can't say anything about that

[golden gust]

protip: if you're gonna debate that people should use linux, make points about stuff people give a shit about

and, the reality is, most people don't give enough shits about computers to replace their OS or deal with the potential headaches it induces

[haughty bear]

interesting, I used to use xfce but I realised that it looks kind of garbage, so I switched to kde and am quite happy with it. KDE's inbuilt compositor capped my refresh rate to 60, so I switched it to compton, but other than that it's sleek and feels nice to use

[brave mountain]

Here we go again

[urban depot]

very true

computers are becoming so complicated nowadays

[haughty bear]

that's not so much the theme, it's just that people don't care

[urban depot]

Login processes are a mess

[worthy geode]

KDE was probably the best one, but in the end I needed MS Office on my Laptop and switched back to Windows

[haughty bear]

you can spew all the arguments you want about muh privacy and whatever, but at the end of the day the best you're gonna get is an "ok"

[void void]

any1 knowing of anything like this: https://github.com/developomp/setup/ ?

[golden gust]

hey, wanna run an app?

[worthy geode]

tbf, Windows 8 did the exact opposite of that

[golden gust]

I know, I know

Lets run that app in chrome!

[urban depot]

people just want to make things more complicated and that's fine by me. They just don't see what they're doing

[haughty bear]

I'm lucky that I still have an ms office online subscription :)

[urban depot]

good idea

[brave mountain]

If Linux were meant for desktop from the beginning, the history would be different

[haughty bear]

I don't think it was "meant" to be anything other than an experiment originally

slash hobby project

[golden gust]

Linux was made for all environments

[worthy geode]

the color scheme is okay, but the icons in the top bar don't fit visually and why tf would you need to see CPU usage all the time

[golden gust]

Windows just managed to get in there and linux never really managed to compete experience wise to normies, and lost in the adoption war

[void void]

exactly thats why im searching for anything like this so if i decide to go arch i can go and run some script and bam everything's ready instead of doing that painstaking process by hand

[golden gust]

the moment IBM picked M$ for their OS, the winner was basically chosen

[urban depot]

if windows had iphone remote control / notifications i might be satisfied enough

[haughty bear]

I wonder what the nvidia open source drivers will do about this situation

[worthy geode]

So now you agree that installing and configuring Linux is painstaking?

[brave mountain]

The way it took wasn't for home

[haughty bear]

I think it's a nice step, but it won't lead to any sort of mass adoption

[ashen cliff]

Our generator still runs XP.

[haughty bear]

I'm way too cynical about nvidia to think that it's actually "open source" with no strings attached

[urban depot]

installing any linux hasn't felt like a pain to me but configuring it can feel increasingly tiresome

[haughty bear]

buuut, code is code

[void void]

the problem with the open source drivers is that they dont support the old architectures so if youre running pascal or anything older you're stuck with the proprietary driver

[vernal moth]

Why do people still confuse spying and telemetry?

People don't care about you

You aren't important

[void void]

they say they're gonna share code between the open source and the proprietary but i highly doubt this

[vernal moth]

What you do on your PC isn't important

[urban depot]

You're just one tiny spec of dust on the internet

[vernal moth]

Nobody gives a shit

[haughty bear]

:(

[vernal moth]

They just wanna know how their users use their software

[urban depot]

Just like in life

People want to know how the traffic is

[brave mountain]

Also, Linux developers like open source while companies don't, so they went where they liked it best.

[golden gust]

companies love open source

It's like, free work

take a look at how many companies where using openssl in their stacks

(pretty much all of them if they had stuff on the interwebs)

[vernal moth]

There is not a single company that doesn't use open source software

[golden gust]

some companies are even nice enough to allow people to contrib back on the clock

[vernal moth]

Yeah, am allowed to do that

[worthy geode]

Notification exist, there is the MS Smartphone Link app. No remote control tho

[brave mountain]

I mean, game development, programs like Photoshop, etc, if they publish open source code they Don't make money

[golden gust]

The reality is is that, especially post heartbleed, many companies realised how much they depend on this stuff

Like, heartbleed was much of a blessing in disguise in a sense

[urban depot]

Another thing for paranoid users is that people would have to pay for the storage to store the data you think they're stealing

They wouldn't

[vernal moth]

Redhat is a company almost entirely build on open source products

It's possible

[golden gust]

The complexity is finding a marketing pattern

[red timber]

no, open source is bad

[magic river]

afaik the only thing red hat makes that aren't open source are things they just bought and haven't cleaned up to open source yet

[golden gust]

Photoshop is naunced because you use the software to create a product and that's that

[vernal moth]

And then IBM took over and ruined it

[haughty bear]

kind of like spigot plugins, interesting

[red timber]

no moneyz and hackers can easily find vulnerabilities in your code

[plush bane]

There are open source games, Mindustry
and even without going open source, visible source can be a solution, like in the case of Unity, or even some games like Barotrauma

[red timber]

that's why windows is hard to hack - it's closed source

and also easy to sell

[magic river]

id games are open source 😄

[golden gust]

monitisation from photoshop would otherwise be paid for tutorials, or royalty type agreements, which, just wouldn't work

[magic river]

Well, the engines are anyway 😄

[golden gust]

Most of what redhat offers support contracts and consulting, etc

biiiig money makers

[brave mountain]

If you make close software for Linux you will be almost forced by the community to open the code.

[golden gust]

nah

[plush bane]

https://github.com/Regalis11/Barotrauma

[golden gust]

Theres much closed source software within the linux community

[haughty bear]

barotrauma is open source????

[plush bane]

No it isn't

[magic river]

If you make closed source kernel modules you can get fucked

[plush bane]

It's visible source

[golden gust]

it's not mainline stuff, like, no repo will include it by default; but, I bet a fair % of users of linux are using closed source software

[haughty bear]

mental I never even knew

[golden gust]

Like, if you game, you're probs using steam

[magic river]

Otherwise if you're making an app I'll try to avoid it but it's whatever

[worthy geode]

Completely different question: Does anyone have a screenshot of the chat preview feature added in todays snapshot?

It sounds really messy

[brave mountain]

Tell electronic arts to publish all their games code

[brave mountain]

And if they still will make the same amount of money

[magic river]

So it's like Minecraft without a couple extra steps

[plush bane]

Yeah

[magic river]

They want you to look at the source code to write mods for it

[haughty bear]

that's actually really cool

[magic river]

But you can't take that code and do other things with it, only mods

[haughty bear]

so in theory you could compile it and run it for free

[worthy geode]

Space Engineers did that for some time too, but they dropped it because it was too much effort to maintain

[brave mountain]

Well yeah Minecraft without mods or plugins will not be that popular

[worthy geode]

And they still distributed the assets on steam, so you needed to own the game to build it successfully

[plush bane]

If you have a legal copy of the game, you can copy the Content folder from the game's files to BarotraumaShared/Content.

[magic river]

Mojang doesn't give you the Minecraft source code but they may as well, they don't heavily obfuscate it and what obfuscation they do have they give you what you need to undo

[plush bane]

Yep

[vernal moth]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/555469074080202765/974364078208344104/unknown.png

[magic river]

The id stuff really is open source but you still have to own the game to get the assets

It's only the engines

[worthy geode]

ty. this looks cool for other things like displaying command help or something

[magic river]

People take quake mods and make them standalone games on top of the open source engine though

[worthy geode]

sad that it adds a warning though

[vernal moth]

I'll write a plugin that does MiniMessage live preview tomorrow

[worthy geode]

nice

[haughty bear]

but it's a snapshot?

[vernal moth]

So?

[haughty bear]

you can write plugins for snapshots?

[vernal moth]

Sure

Via version exists

[worthy geode]

but a warning screen for this seems kinda over the top, idk

[haughty bear]

would viaversion be updated to send the chat preview packets?

[worthy geode]

its just a preview, why add a full screen warning for it oO

[vernal moth]

Because server modifies your messages

[worthy geode]

yeah but those aren't the real chat messages, just a textbox above the input field

[golden gust]

he hat message is in the chat box?

[worthy geode]

that looks like the preview is in the location of the tab completion UI

[golden gust]

Well, yes

that's the entire intent

the intent is that you can see the message which will be sent and decide if you wanna sign the message you're gonna send

[void void]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv5xHfZnk4s

[vernal moth]

Stop sharing shit like that

It's tiring

[haughty bear]

back to this argument?

[worthy geode]

its not like servers have been modifying messages for ten years now, players should be aware that it can be changed.
And I don't even want to modify it, I just want to use that to show command help

[haughty bear]

although then users might send a command help message in global chat

[vernal moth]

You don't see the bigger picture

Their intent

[haughty bear]

moderation of chat messages?

[vernal moth]

And I can't tell you 😂

[haughty bear]

moderation is my guess anyway

[worthy geode]

I thought the idea of the chat signing was to allow Mojang to ensure that the chat messages in a chat log are actually what the players said

Not to make that visible to players

[vernal moth]

Yep

[haughty bear]

other clients would also get the signed chat message though I assume

[vernal moth]

Now why would you wanna ensure the integrity of messages?

I can't answer more

[urban depot]

Good move by mojang

[haughty bear]

to make sure none of the message bits got stuck in the wire

[worthy geode]

I can understand the integrity part, I just don't understand why that needs to be something that needs to be exposed to the players

[urban depot]

To reduce harmful message manipulation maybe?

[haughty bear]

I suppose so other clients also know the message is genuine

[glass crag]

report message to mojang, mojang can ban pedos

[vernal moth]

Hopefully they will say it publicly soon

[worthy geode]

But is this a real problem? Are there really servers that modify player messages in a harmful way?

This seems like a non-issue

[haughty bear]

if mojang were to add a moderation feature, then it would be an issue

[void void]

would make it possible to report messages without being a server admin ig

[urban depot]

maybe mojang just doesn't want that capability

no idea

[wide chasm]

This chat signing is nice and all, but I'm still waiting for the fletching table to get a gui 😄

[worthy geode]

Mojang does not know any context to those chat messages, them moderating chat would go horribly wrong

[urban depot]

yeah

e.g. how they relate to the mc world too

if they raer eal or not

[haughty bear]

I'd definitely be concerned in the direction they're headed tbh

[urban depot]

like somone could be lying

[haughty bear]

if it is actually moderation as I'm guessing

[worthy geode]

As a server moderator, you know the players, you know your type of server, you know whats happening in the world. Mojang does not

[cedar spade]

If the player sees the message before and still chooses to send it, they've at least consented to sending it in the previewed form

[urban depot]

true

[vernal moth]

If the message is bad enough, does context matter?

[haughty bear]

a message could be bad but only in context

[urban depot]

in some cases no, right?

[glass crag]

need a chat blockchain

[haughty bear]

think of it the other way round

[worthy geode]

If I have an 18+ server, I enforce this age limit strictly, I would say yes

[urban depot]

Not only in context depending on what it has in it

Not everything can be "not bad"

[worthy geode]

Because then whats "bad" and whats not bad is vastly different from a server thats open to the general public, e.g. children aged 12

[void void]

Pure speculation, but mojang has been pretty laid back with moderation, so I'd imagine this would only apply to extreme cases

[cedar spade]

I haven't seen whether or not the latest snapshot signs the previewed message, but if they do then it lets servers continue formatting/processing chat as they already do and stops any players claiming "the server changed it to a bad word"

[wide chasm]

Can't you disable the whole chat signing in the server.properties, though?

[worthy geode]

But why would a server do that? To get players banned, sure, but as long as Mojang isn't banning any players for chat that issue simply does not exist

[cedar spade]

We don't know what Mojang will do with this yet

[vernal moth]

You don't

😂

[urban depot]

wait and see

[worthy geode]

We can still voice our concerns tho

[haughty bear]

gonna abandon ship to hytale

[vernal moth]

Oh yeah, and I will forward anything that I haven't heard before

[wide chasm]

You'll be leaving in 2050? /s

[vernal moth]

I just wish I could say more and try to address concerns

[haughty bear]

should we be concerned?

[worthy geode]

The way I understand it so far is that they want to moderate chat. Doing that also creates the issue that servers might modify messages to get players banned, thats why they added chat signing

[urban depot]

why shouldn't we?

[cedar spade]

I don't see much reason to be concerned here - if Mojang wanted to do something as draconian as running every chat message through their servers, they would have just started running chat directly through their own servers

[vernal moth]

Technically that's already possible

The code is in the server

[urban depot]

They can do what they like

[wide chasm]

I'm still not really seeing why we'd care about this feature in its current form, though, there seems to be no benefit to sign chat as to not sign chat for the server nor its players as of yet.

[vernal moth]

Clearly it's not done yet

[wide chasm]

Evidently

[vernal moth]

And it's getting better every week

[worthy geode]

My main concern is just that Mojang does not have any context for those chat messages, so im afraid this will lead to false bans due to things that players said that might have been okay in the context they have been said

[cedar spade]

Sure, I mean they could easily just skip the MC server out entirely if that's the level of strictness they wanted to apply, and then signing chat between the client and MC server becomes moot

[golden gust]

I mean, we can't clarify their entire plans

general gist is that theres legislation around the world requiring platforms to do better at moderation

[urban depot]

If they kill their game, they kill their game

[wide chasm]

I'm curious what they will be doing with this, but maybe we'll see next week

[haughty bear]

I was suspecting legal reasons actually

[brave mountain]

Minecraft have become an entire gaming platform

[worthy geode]

I would prefer if Mojang gave the community more moderation tools, and they could also force (larger) servers to enforce rules, similar to how they are enforcing their commercial guidelines

[vernal moth]

It's their brand they gotta protect

[golden gust]

I mean, idk what "more tools" they could provide vs what the community already has

[vernal moth]

The headline will not be malfradors server is used for child abuse, it will be Minecraft is used for child abuse

[worthy geode]

Then they should sue me for allowing this to happen on my server tho

[golden gust]

(I mean, that headline has already appeared a few times)

[brave mountain]

With the time it could be dangerous to maintain it, because the community hopes

[vernal moth]

Or empower players instead

[urban depot]

I don't like the fact that Mojang's recently added social menu (where players can choose to "mute" other players) is bypassed on many servers so that when the player presses P and mutes someone, that person is not muted in the person's client.

[golden gust]

But, that's not what the laws being written around the world are aiming to do

[cedar spade]

Filing a lawsuit after the fact doesn't fix brand damage

[vernal moth]

Skip the server owner

[golden gust]

the laws are aiming to hold the platform owners to account

Mojang is the platform owner of minecraft

[worthy geode]

Yeah, this feature resulted in players muting moderators and then saying "no they never said don't do that"
So I got rid of it

[golden gust]

We have no idea how all of this is going to turn out, but, needless to say anybody running a platform right now is taking steps to be able to react to this

[twin lagoon]

if they're ignoring your moderators, simply ban em

[urban depot]

Well what if they just change it so that server operators can't be muted?

[brave mountain]

I think Mojang would not be able to keep up with the weight of the community and what the game itself represents.

[wide chasm]

You can still disable chat in the options entirely, so I can still not see messages from moderators if I want to.

[golden gust]

it's a safety mechanism, disabling safety mechanisms is just kinda bleh

[brave mountain]

One of the reasons for selling to ms

[worthy geode]

generally yes, but the issue was that multiple players took screenshots of chat (with the mod messages missing because blocked), send those to me and complained

[vernal moth]

Now you can verify the signature

[cedar spade]

Then you create a scenario where people can be harassed by members of staff on a server without understanding the situation or how to avoid it (read: young children)

[vernal moth]

No more screenshot faking

[haughty bear]

or you can have messages sent by mods be system messages

[golden gust]

I mean, it varies on how you deal with that

[worthy geode]

and that happened multiple times, so I got rid of that feature. We have an /ignore command anyways

[golden gust]

if the players where intentionally blocking mods to be arsehats, boot them

if your players actually had a reason to block mods, you should probably question why

ofc, players are gonna be arsehats no matter what you do, but, that's a shitty reason to disable safety features on a game used by young people

[worthy geode]

We have an /ignore command that they can use

If that mute list was server-side the whole thing wouldn't be a problem either

[golden gust]

server side mute list would be a security issue

[urban depot]

yes

[worthy geode]

server side muting commands are a thing

I don't see why that suddenly would be a problem

[golden gust]

part of the idea was to not have to deal with the server for that

Cos of people like you

basically

[worthy geode]

The way I see this is that Mojang is actually making it harder for me to enforce moderation on my server

[golden gust]

This really just seems self inflicted

Once again, if players are blocking mods to be arse hats, boot them

if players are blocking mods for a reason other than being arsehats, you probs wanna work out why

[worthy geode]

I did, but the main problem was that they blocked mods specifically to take fake screenshots of chat without the mod's messages

[golden gust]

and you have logs, etc

[worthy geode]

Yeah, it was solved. It just was more complicated than it would have been if that list wasn't a thing in the first place

[golden gust]

People are gonna be cunts no matter what you do, yeet and move on

[urban depot]

also you don't need every single piece of hard evidence to know whether you want them on your server, right?

[golden gust]

Welcome to the joys of the modern world where platforms have to offer safety features

[worthy geode]

I still believe in community moderation. And if thats just due to laws then well, these laws suck

[golden gust]

Well, I mean, theres the whole pedo problem that mojang has

[native wolf]

you can login with your account, and they literally just steal it lol

[worn ember]

well then ur stoopid

[urban depot]

only if you use the same password as your email

[twin lagoon]

there are communities out there with a lot of players and subpar moderation

[urban depot]

and who does that? many people sadly

[twin lagoon]

you cannot always rely on community moderation

[worthy geode]

in that case the server owner would have some legal responsibility as well tho, if they know of that happening and don't do anything to prevent it

[golden gust]

Issue is that these people just often run around 200 servers

[cedar spade]

As said before, the person legal responsibility lies with means zilch when outlets run articles talking about Minecraft

The brand damage is done at that point, Microsoft talking to/suing you doesn't repair that

[worthy geode]

I mean, in the end my opinion on the whole thing probably depends on how mojang moderates.
there are games out there were you get yeeted for a week after saying "fuck" after a lost match, and considering minecraft is aimed at children, yeah.

[golden gust]

I mean, that's part of what we've been concerned about too

[worthy geode]

this is literally a problem in any online game tho, and has been for years. I don't see why someone would blame Minecraft specifically for that happening

[golden gust]

I mean, you can practically opt out of the validation stuff

Yes.

and platforms are being blamed for it.

and there is much legal stuff in the works to force platforms to do something about it.

[cedar spade]

Because Minecraft is heavily decentralised, Mojang's actual services cover a tiny fraction of a percent of MC multiplayer

[worthy geode]

Which is good

Minecraft would not have such a diverse multiplayer community if that was not the case

[golden gust]

governments around the world are generally calling on platforms to actually start dealing with this shit properly as opposed to letting is occur on their platform

[cedar spade]

For you, sure

[urban depot]

i think discord doesn't let you easily report messages or people unless you know how to properly go around it

[golden gust]

Which is why companies like facebook/twitter, and governments in general, are calling for more regulation on this stuff

[worthy geode]

You can only report DMs, because chat moderation on discord servers is up to those servers

[vague lagoon]

you can report messages in servers as well?

[urban depot]

and there are so many -.-

[twin lagoon]

not true

[worthy geode]

Where is the report button tho?

[golden gust]

germany literally has laws which requires platforms to remove infringing materials within a timeframe or be fucked for it, and these are only looking to be harder enforced and wider

[twin lagoon]

while you definitely have a duty as server owner to do moderation on discord, there are still platform rules

[vague lagoon]

i have it on ios

[twin lagoon]

manual trust & safety form or if you're a server moderator, you can report messages

[urban depot]

where is it on pc

[worthy geode]

yes, as server moderator. that would be a system I would be fine with for Minecraft as well

[wide chasm]

Guess my moderation duties are over

[worthy geode]

Not really sure if thats possible, but that allows the server moderator to report the message to Mojang, so context can be taken into account

[cedar spade]

you can report messages on the delete modal iirc

[twin lagoon]

both moderators and users can do so

just like on discord

[cedar spade]

well, if Mojang adds some sort of client-side "report message" functionality, moderators would be able to use it like any other player

[wide chasm]

There's a toggle there it seems, not a separate button though.

[urban depot]

ok so report is on ios discord but not windows discord

[wide chasm]

Classic discord

[twin lagoon]

er that's my bad

[urban depot]

so why sin't it on windows discord?

[twin lagoon]

the report message feature is exclusive to certain discord members

[cedar spade]

It doesn't account for the cases where you would want to leave a message up while reporting it

[twin lagoon]

but you can still report them using the trust & safety form

[worthy geode]

Im not against moderation, im just worried that it will go the wrong way in Minecraft. In Discord there are also less variables to take into account

[twin lagoon]

it's the same system

[haughty bear]

a chat message report can't send the state of the game world at the time

[worthy geode]

Yeah

[golden gust]

Which is why we're glad that mojang is working with us to discuss stuff so that we can try to address stuff like this

[worthy geode]

yeah, that is actually great

[golden gust]

There is gonna be some nuance here, that's unavoidable, especially when laws start coming into play

[worthy geode]

There are also things like public global chat vs. group chat, which Mojang simply can not know by just looking at chat logs

I hope they are talking to some servers owners as well though

[twin lagoon]

they are

[haughty bear]

what does this mean for servers like 2b2t?

[twin lagoon]

well first of all

nothing of value lost

second of all, probably wouldn't be bad idea to stop spewing toxic shit in their ingame chat

[turbid oar]

lol

[worthy geode]

players know what they are getting into when playing on 2b2t, so imo its kinda fine

[haughty bear]

so you believe 2b2t's chat will just be insuitable for a moderated environment like is being implemented?

[twin lagoon]

the 2b2t chat is unsuitable for minecraft

[haughty bear]

yet it still has players

[worthy geode]

its unsuitable for the brand, yeah. but not everything should be about the brand

[haughty bear]

and mojang has not taken it down yet

[turbid oar]

true ^

[twin lagoon]

going after 1 single minecraft server and going through the legal route will take so many resources and is a waste of time when there are so many alternative servers out there

when you can target moderation on all servers

[worthy geode]

but as long as they don't backport all this stuff, I doubt 2b2t will care anyways

[haughty bear]

oh right, they're stuck on 1.12

[twin lagoon]

they're making attempts to update to 1.18 and seem to be doing quite well

you're also missing one important thing here

signed chat is not a requirement, it is opt-in from the serverside

[lavish compass]

can't servers just ditch old versions already

[turbid oar]

0/

[twin lagoon]

if 2b2t wants to live without mojang signed chat they can do it

[worthy geode]

but it does show the client a popup, right?

although a popup for 2b2t makes sense

[turbid oar]

It will cause a lot of drama

[haughty bear]

that might be interesting from a legal standpoint though; mojang gives users tools to avoid moderation entirely?

therefore, possibly indirectly enabling pedophiles/etc.?

[worthy geode]

ehh. don't give them ideas

[golden gust]

I mean, the system is still in development

[haughty bear]

I'm not saying I agree with this point, it's just an argument that might be used

[golden gust]

and there are much wider legal moves which people are waiting on to see what happens and how they'll be interpreted in practice, etc

[lavish compass]

end to end encrypted Minecraft whisper, when?

[haughty bear]

blockchain minecraft worlds

oh-

[golden gust]

at the end of the day, as I keep saying, there are expectations that mojang will start to put their foot down on this stuff within their own platform

much of that is shared code across multiple environments

[urban depot]

I think fabric already hides whispers

[magic river]

What is this bullshit? It's May damnit

[golden gust]

then theres the stuff over how will this be treated in the real world, of which who knows, then theres the moderation issues mojang has wanted to deal with for years

oh god, am glad its not like that over here

but, I mean, it's getting hot

[turbid oar]

Same for me. It's very hot here 🥵

[golden gust]

not too far away from "funny walk to unstick" season

[twin lagoon]

that is indeed bullshit please provide proper units the rest of the world can understand

[magic river]

And then that causes this

[worthy geode]

"have a plan", nice advice

[turbid oar]

😵‍💫

[magic river]

In proper units that's "oh fuck me it's hot"

[turbid oar]

I could understand 😛

[magic river]

38°C

[twin lagoon]

okay 38c is indeed hot

that is painfully hot even

[magic river]

In May

[golden gust]

Yea, that's like "fuck that" hot

[magic river]

That's a hot day in August

[worthy geode]

its 25c here and I hate it already

[turbid oar]

I love the cold weather

[magic river]

May is supposed to be like 21°C

[haughty bear]

why?

[worthy geode]

Snoooow!

best thing ever

[turbid oar]

Better then hot weather :(

[magic river]

You can always put more layers on to stay warm

You can only take off so much

[turbid oar]

Also hot chocolate in the cold :)

[haughty bear]

legally

regardless, I think hot weather is more relaxing

[turbid oar]

I remember almost getting blind from being outside in the snow

[magic river]

I mean, sitting around in my boxers is actually more miserable and then I have to clean my chair daily

Sweat + bare skin + most things you sit on sucks

[haughty bear]

I just can't imagine myself wearing layers even indoors

feels bulky if I walk outside in a coat

[worthy geode]

reminds me when I worked in a ski resort and didn't bring sunglasses

[turbid oar]

ouch

[haughty bear]

it's seriously that reflective?

[urban depot]

i love rain the most

it's great wherever i am

[turbid oar]

Well whenever it's very white. Starring at that color for a bit can blind you when you go into a house with lights or etc

[worthy geode]

yeah. especially if there is only snow, no trees, no rocks, just snow (and a lift lol)

You can actually get a sunburn inside your eyes, like staring into the sun or welding without goggles

[haughty bear]

england gets barely any snow. I suppose it's a culture thing as well, there's a reason that the idea of "holiday" - at least in england - usually brings up tropical islands and whatever, rather than antarctica

[worthy geode]

and additionally, UV radiation increases with higher altitudes. quite a lot actually, 4% per 300m

[magic river]

y'all just hop down to Spain and then try to make everyone speak English and eat fish and chips 😛

[worthy geode]

so "staring at fresh snow at 2500m" is bad

[magic river]

I'm at 366m

I knew it wasn't just my imagination that the blindness stepping outside in Denver was worse 😄

[golden gust]

Hey

We needed those spices

[worthy geode]

oh Denver is quite high up, didn't expect 1600m lol

[golden gust]

Just, we where, erm... too busy to er, figure out how to use them...

[worthy geode]

Thought all of the US cities are kinda on flat land for some reason

[golden gust]

Yea, I think denver was one of the higher ones

[magic river]

We have so much land to spare, why build somewhere annoying?

[turbid oar]

kinda is

[warm anchor]

I mean it’s literally the most ideal place to build

[turbid oar]

Hello EterNity 0/

[magic river]

We also almost entirely follow "modern" urban planning with grids and such

[warm anchor]

Plus early day, you have to be in place where boat can reach and it will always be by the river

[warm anchor]

Hi

[magic river]

They get convoluted in places due to people thinking it's a good idea to knock out a road to put a park in or something but mostly

[worthy geode]

and then there are the swiss who build villages in the absolute worst places on mountains so that you can't even reach them by road

[turbid oar]

How much is sponsorship out of curiosity? Sorry for the little off topic

[magic river]

More or less every city in the US is a planned city, none of them sprung up naturally

[warm anchor]

Any amount

[turbid oar]

oh

cool

May I have the link to it?

[haughty bear]

what defines a planned vs natural city? is a natural city one that just grows out of a small settlement, and expands?

[warm anchor]

https://opencollective.com/papermc @turbid oar

[magic river]

Right, a natural city would be one that grew haphazardly over the years as people congregated in one spot for one reason or another

Look at pretty much all European cities

[haughty bear]

so kind of like london

[worthy geode]

tbf most information I have about US cities is from Not Just Bikes so I feel like I have to hate US cities

[magic river]

All the ones in the US, even if they didn't know ahead of time they would be a city, were somewhat planned out

[potent wedge]

My city came from a railroad that was never used and will never be used again

[warm anchor]

It’s often not walkable nor bikeable yeah

[worthy geode]

I have been to Toronto, and that was already pretty bad and as far as I know most US cities are worse in that regard

but large city and trains only coming every 2 hours was a bit of a "wtf" moment

[warm anchor]

In my city it’s walkable around inner city but you wouldn’t want to after dark

[turbid oar]

ok donated to papermc :)

[warm anchor]

And in suburb it’s basically all cars and if you bike you will have to share the road with cars

[magic river]

Oh yeah, US cities are generally the least walkable and riding a bike is likely to get you run off the road by someone annoyed you're making them go 20 mph instead of 45

[warm anchor]

Yup

[magic river]

Or someone looking at their phone and drifting into the 3 ft of the side of the road marked as a bike lane

[worthy geode]

I don't even have a car. there are some bike paths here that could be wider, but otherwise most of the major roads have separated bike paths and its generally pretty decent

[magic river]

With no barrier between it and the actual road

[warm anchor]

Barrier isn’t the biggest issues

[turbid oar]

Hm somehow I didn't receive a role for paying for sponsorship?

[magic river]

Or using the bike lane to try to pass someone on the wrong side

[warm anchor]

Issue is people not used to bikes on the road and will get aggressive

[magic river]

It's done manually, you have to ping someone

Forget who

[worthy geode]

I messaged aurora, not sure if thats still right

[turbid oar]

ah

[warm anchor]

@mental meadow

She prob napping or something

[magic river]

Ok, I'll put the away then

[worthy geode]

also, all the cars in Toronto were just sooo big, that was really different. there are large cars here of course, but not like 95%

[magic river]

Oh yeah, we all drive sedans, SUVs, and trucks

[warm anchor]

Lmao

Any American goin to Euro will notice the cars are smaller in general

[worthy geode]

gas is cheaper in the US tho, right?

[warm anchor]

Yeah

Especially now even more so

[turbid oar]

um the prices have gone up

[magic river]

$4/gallon

[warm anchor]

Yeah it’s $4

[turbid oar]

ouch

ye

[magic river]

Or about 1 euro/liter

[haughty bear]

how is parking in the US?

[warm anchor]

EU is like $10

Or more

[magic river]

Places in cities are usually required to provide parking for whatever their occupancy is

[warm anchor]

I am pretty sure this is cheaper even before war

[worthy geode]

this is the case here as well sometimes, its a dumb requirement

[magic river]

So they have to waste huge chunks of land for parking lots or get the city to build more parking garages

[warm anchor]

In the city any new development is required to reserve/build underground parking space to accompany

Or have plans on how they would shuttle people from a parking lot far away (if they can’t build more lots in the existing location)

[magic river]

I imagine some places some development company builds the storefronts and also builds a parking garage then leases them as a package deal

Wasting land for all those parking lots makes walking even worse, of course

But you've seen Not Just Bikes so no need to repeat all that 😄

[haughty bear]

when I was in florida, it seemed like there was never an issue on parking, not even on the side of the road. it's in contrast to a lot of europe imo

[worthy geode]

yeah, parking in cities is annoying if there are no public parking garages.
But I rather have that annoyance then a city that looks like a parking lot. The big highway through the city they built in the 70s here is bad enough

[warm anchor]

In certain part of city you’d
1 >drive from your house to a parking lot
2> park in a dedicated lot
3> wait for shuffle bus to take you to your actual office building
4> walk to your office

[worthy geode]

meanwhile I have a 20min bike ride on a nice, wide dedicated bike path to my uni

but tbf, not everything is great. imagine living in those houses in the center

[warm anchor]

That’s a good spot for zombie apocalypse

[haughty bear]

if these cities are planned, why do they seem planned so haphazardly?

[warm anchor]

That’s probably the older part of town or something

[worthy geode]

my screenshot? thats not really planned, that road was build in the location of the old city walls

[haughty bear]

ah I see. But people don't see this parking stuff as an issue?

[warm anchor]

A planned city will look like this @haughty bear

[worthy geode]

also lead to this, 70s road above the old city gate. absolutely horrible

[warm anchor]

You can see the grid just on google map

[worthy geode]

some people do, its really a political thing

most areas are residents only parking, and the waiting lists for the permits for this can be pretty long because there are way too many cars for the space available

but imo public transport in larger cities is already good enough that you really don't need a car

[twin lagoon]

sir have u heard of urban planning

[warm anchor]

This honestly look like my city skyline build

[worthy geode]

I just feel like some cities have done urban planning for cars instead of urban planning for people

[magic river]

In a planned city you'll still have oddball exceptions in some of the minor roads and things like interstates will not follow the grid because they're usually plowing through whatever parts of town were the poorest (and/or blackest) since those areas can't fight as hard about zoning and eminent domain

[twin lagoon]

that is pretty much the entirety of this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A

[magic river]

And sometimes those little one-off exceptions grow into something larger later and you have a part that doesn't fit your grid at all but is important

[worthy geode]

We were just talking about NJB before 😄

[magic river]

But for the most part a planned city looks like a boring grid pattern

[worthy geode]

It felt quite easy to navigate tho, due to everything being a grid

[warm anchor]

Oh yes

[magic river]

Oh yeah, navigation and numbering and such is much easier

That's why you do it 😛

[warm anchor]

In my city the north south bound road is street and east wast is avenue

And number goes up

[magic river]

That sounds like NYC

[warm anchor]

So you can go around or get an idea to know where some place is

[magic river]

Which makes sense I guess, that was the original planned city in the US

[warm anchor]

But you don’t get cool street names

[magic river]

They just change 1st Avenue to be John F Kennedy Avenue

Or at least that's how DC does it

[worthy geode]

most street names are boring anyways.poets, musicians, tree names, famous politicians. but always the same people

[magic river]

Here we have numbers one direction (with plain, West, and East versions that don't quite line up) and named streets the other direction

[worthy geode]

We have a part of the city here with streets named after mountains in bavarian alps, that is nice

[magic river]

It's really annoying, West 19th connects to 18th and so on, off by one the whole way

Most of them don't really connect at all though, there is a creek and a boulevard running between them so they only connect every few blocks

[worthy geode]

Mannheim in Germany uses a similar concept, with numbers and letters, so you get adresses like "L4" which is the fourth block on street L

but that is also a planned city

[magic river]

afaik none of them connected when they were making them so people didn't realize they'd be off

It was a several decade project to make the creek not flood wildly and allow things to be built around it

[worthy geode]

there have been a few projects like that, which usually ended up in floods being worse, because the rivers and creeks needed that space to expand

[magic river]

There are years, more and more lately, where we have drought conditions here but also flooding due to places north getting too much precipitation over the winter and the dam having to be opened too much to avoid even worse flooding up there

The creek has been mostly fine though, sometimes it floods enough to get some standing water on the roads right next to it but usually not for long and it doesn't get high enough to flood any houses and such

It's the three rivers all joining together right here that are the problem

[ashen cliff]

Ah yes. 2 hours of my night deleted.
https://posili.me/i/rUXLB7BB-2022-05-12_23-22-52.png

[golden gust]

I ran brew install mpv on my mac running high sierra

much of the dependencies are no longer bottled

i.e. ffmpeg

It's been going brr for a few hours I think

[golden gust]

I hadn't even kept that machine updated cos it was mostly just what I used to watch TV in bed, and some dep for updates in general was blowing up, so, imma get this installed, and try and remember to run brew upgrade at least once in a while :L

[ashen cliff]

I'm just trying to compile OpenWRT and something is outdated and complaining.

[golden gust]

yay for transitives, wooo \o/

[magic river]

libxml2?

[ashen cliff]

https://posili.me/i/6N5tyxnE-2022-05-12_23-32-11.png

[magic river]

That's the only thing I can think of it'd be using that is written in rust

[golden gust]

rav1e

[magic river]

Why would mpv depend on an encoder?

And why would they pick that one...

[golden gust]

mpv > ffmpeg > rav1e

[magic river]

Ah

Needs USE flags 😛

Actually it probably has some flag if you installed ffmpeg directly

[golden gust]

Kinda waiting for chrome OS flex to become a bit more stable

Like, I think that long term that's probs gonna be the saner option for that poor old mac

I mean, assuming that poor old mac is supported

[magic river]

That reminds me, I got my grandpa a Chromebook with an i3-8130U for a steal on ebay

I'm pretty sure it's faster than my 2015 MBP and I could probably still be using that for work, although it was getting annoyingly slow

He won't be using crostini to run an Ubuntu container and do development work on it but he definitely could 😄

i3-8130U, 8GB RAM, 64MB eMMC, 14" 1080p

Dang thing is like $800 new, it's kind of nuts

Ah $650 new, $430 used on Amazon

[golden gust]

it's kinda interesting now that chrome books have kinda stormed schools

[magic river]

I got it for $180, thought for sure I got scammed or something but as far as I can tell the only thing wrong is the bottom of it is scratched up pretty bad

But you don't look at the bottom so...

[golden gust]

Especially as now that there is some demand for it, OEMs are actually doing something with it bar bottom of the barrel chips

[magic river]

Hopefully since it's all Intel they won't drop support for it after their standard guaranteed ChromeOS upgrade timeframe

It practically keeps working for free, they have to go out of their way to not support it

[wet storm]

Goosbye to rats

[modern narwhal]

Those Free Discord from Steam link ppl should put on Darwin Awards waiting list.

[wide chasm]

Seems like Mojang isn't going to add fireflies to 1.19. I personally had completely forgotten that they even said they wanted to add this, but TIL I suppose.

[unkempt drift]

Weren’t they just particles?

Or were they actual entities?

[warm anchor]

Was gonna be entities but quickly realize it’s probably the worse idea ever

[magic river]

lol, Firefox locked down their sandbox so it couldn't call a bunch of Win32 APIs and that caused crashes because anti-virus software was injecting DLLs into Firefox processes and those DLLs tried to use the APIs

Avast makes your computer less secure, confirmed

[unkempt drift]

Or even better, were they gonna be async entities? 🤔

[magic river]

They had to use some feature only available since the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (October 2017) to block the anti-virus from injecting random shit into their process

As a bonus that also make new tab creation 15% faster

[wide chasm]

Yes, but it's okay, in 22w20a they'll make the warden async /s

[magic river]

lol, in 1990 almost 100% of all households in the US with children 10-14 years old owned an NES

~25% of all households in the US had one

Their sales didn't decline due to people getting bored with the NES, they declined because everyone already owned one

[vague lagoon]

NES?

[spare venture]

nintendo entertainment system

[magic river]

So nvidia open sourced their driver but the firmware apparently can only be distributed with that driver? And even worse, only as a part of a specific install script that includes an embedded copy of the firmware

Whoops?

No gsp.bin for nouveau then

No Separation of Components. The SOFTWARE is licensed as a
single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use
on more than one computer, nor otherwise used separately from the
other parts.

One part says for Linux/FreeBSD you're free to redistribute it so long as you don't modify it (other than unzipping anything that might be compressed) but then that parts means you can't pull out just the file you need

Also that firmware is 34MB and has 900 functions you can call in it

So this seems like a raspberry pi situation where they have an "open source" driver but it's just a shim

They have a RISC-V core on the GPU and basically moved all of the stuff a kernel module normally does to firmware running on that core

[magic river]

Yankees 14, White Sox 7, top of the 8th inning, looked like about half the people in the stands just started leaving

7 of those Yankees runs were this inning, it was tied going in to it

[turbid oar]

Oof I wish I have my sponsor role 😔

[wraith trail]

That is something for @mental meadow

[turbid oar]

oh so no one else can give it out? ok dokie

I guess I wait for a bit then

[mental meadow]

I'm awake now!

Just send me a DM with proof @turbid oar

A nevermind i see it

[turbid oar]

oh ok xD

thank you

[native wolf]

typical AV software

let's not forget that one time where you could basically run any JS code through Avast (and ofc, since it's an AV, it runs with higher privileges than you)

[thorny totem]

lol Avast, I remember they got blamed about selling userdata

[ashen cliff]

One of many.

[warm anchor]

If you install AV willingly now, you are the issue tbh

[worn ember]

First thing to go on any new pc

[hexed dragon]

Discord's Seventh birthday today (May 13). I wonder what they will do this time.

[warm anchor]

Party mode

@hexed dragon apparently

[lavish compass]

[urban depot]

Why didn’t mojang just add particles instead of fireflies?

[wet storm]

It is interesting that russian player base really hates mojang, they make lists of all mojang mistakes, all broken mechanics in minecraft which should be fixed, and just blame them in everything, but they continue to play minecraft...

[urban depot]

Making them more popular (which they don’t want to happen but can’t help it) dumbasses

[golden gust]

I mean, it's a flawed game

there are many dozens of issues we all wanna see fixed

There are many mechanics which woulda been cool if they'd fleshed out maybe a bit more

We can still enjoy the game for all its flaws and such

not everything is a binary

[wet storm]

Imo the worst update ever is 1.14 cuz villager trades have broken many mechanics which were before, such as totems...

[golden gust]

They have a feedback area where you're more than welcome to suggest actual improvements to the game, etc

[urban depot]

I just like that it can be modified so much

[golden gust]

Like, at least for me, I used to love playing MC, but, over time, it being my primary place to spend time in over the years, I ain't really played it much in years

although, I keep having the thoughts of building the spencer mansion but, then it's like, they don't got all the decoration blocks I'd want

[urban depot]

I was thinking the other day that if it existed I’d play a game that has the freedom like Minecraft but is more realistic / larger so I can make old settlements or build boats for example

Anyway I doubt that would happen and I’m happy playing mc most of t he time

[wet storm]

One "example" list which some dude have written while debating in comments to a snapshot post somewhere:
(Google translated from russian)
"> Not a single vehicle, even in its own environment, can compare with elytras (except for a boat on ice)

There is a great variety of food in the game, but in fact only steaks, breads, and golden carrots are usable and running
About 15 kinds of potions, of which only half brings tangible results, and half of this half is used by the players.
An incredible variety of enchantments, but some of them are useless, some are questionable, some are situational, and some are an absolute meta.
Dungeons like the Sea Monument and the Mansion make no sense to visit if you are not going to build a mob farm from the first, and rebuild the second into something and settle there yourself.
Beacons can be created from different materials and powered by different resources, but this makes no sense, just like in most beacon effects, of which only "hurry" is running.
The sea lighthouse ("sea source") does not pay for the time spent on it at all with its functionality. Here it really exists ONLY so that you can build Rapture out of bioshock.
The trident has zero potential as a weapon compared to the standard sword+bow set. Until the next normal combat update, the fork will remain a tool for dashing out of the water and charging creepers with lightning."

" > Turtle helmet, as well as the lighthouse, does not pay off the time spent on it. During the time in which you get 5 turtle shields, you can get the "underwater breathing 3" book through the same inhabitants that break the balance and put it on a normal helmet, thus getting additional time spent under water, which is more than enough in the minecraft THIRTY METERS depth of the ocean, and the normal characteristics of the strength and protection of the helmet.
And that's still without "scuba walking 3" on boots, with which you will hardly need to monitor the air, unless you deliberately climb somewhere where there are problems with the "surface and breathe" oxygen replenishment scheme.
Oh, and there's also an underwater breathing potion that gives you eight minutes of free swimming.

That's all the first thing that came to mind."

[keen snow]

Is it possible to create a self assignable role on this discord for important paper security updates and bugfixes pings -> especially for exploit fixing? Its quite laborious to always look at the download website and check out if any major security patches or exploit fixes etc have been released

a suggestion channel would be a nice addition to, I believe -> at least for some kind of discord server suggestion like the one above

[vernal moth]

For bad stuff we would ping everyone

[keen snow]

yes I know, but some pings for example when it would be useful to update to the latest version for example

if you know what I mean

[vernal moth]

For new features we now have weekly summaries on Twitter!

[keen snow]

oh I didn't knew that, thanks :)

[rare python]

Ah yes, twitter.

I avoid it.

[ashen cliff]

Daily updates are also available on IRC.

[magic river]

You should update to every update 😛

Except test them first, some might be bad

But if the devs knew they were bad either they wouldn't exist at all or they'd be replaced with a newer build

So really you're asking for something impossible

[wet storm]

"Reminder: IRC is bad" - PeterCrawley

[magic river]

TIL the CEO of Waymo says level 5 automation is basically impossible

[mental meadow]

don't hate on twitter where else would I spend hours every day doomscrolling

[magic river]

Tesla says it'll be in your car this year 😄

[wet storm]

👀 https://gist.github.com/apple502j/990ade8cce33b8feddd788667e9b25f0

[primal solar]

Anyone here who checked out the latest snapshot yet

[worthy geode]

there is this so im fine with the solution, lol

[tawdry hazel]

Did youtube style just change

[worthy geode]

and the chat-preview even supports two lines, lovely

[primal solar]

I think these new steps are rather nice

[worthy geode]

on platforms as large as YT, changes like this are usually A/B changes, so it won't have changed for everyone

I mean, we now have a popup for "careful, this is multiplayer" and a popup for "server can change your chat, which is a bit annoying.
but both are one-time so whatever

but with two popups they could add a packet so servers can send these screens as well, that would be cool

[magic river]

I haven't seen the actual message but I thought the warning was "server can read what you're typing even if you don't hit enter"

[little frost]

yeah the server could always modify chat if it wanted

[magic river]

Isn't the whole point to let you see how the server is going to modify it?

[quasi valley]

yes

[magic river]

I don't really get the point of it but... neat, I guess?

[quasi valley]

so you sign the previewed text

[magic river]

I suppose it means you don't get surprised by :D being replaced with an emoji when you were trying to type a URL or something

Oh, it's a way for the client to show it approves the modified message?

[quasi valley]

yep

[magic river]

Is it actually signed? Like RSA or something?

[quasi valley]

yes

[little frost]

SHA256 RSA last i checked

[magic river]

So this stops servers from impersonating players

[quasi valley]

exactly

[magic river]

But still lets the server modify the message to do styling and such

I get it

Seems like they're getting ready for a release

[quasi valley]

it's usually early June, so makes sense

[warm anchor]

Does this mean more kneny stream??

[magic river]

They're mostly just tweaking things the past few snapshots, no big new feature work

Other than this chat preview thing

[quasi valley]

Depends on how scuffed Spigot is going to look like

[warm anchor]

Yes

[vestal jasper]

The latest response text is included in the SignedChatMessage sent by the client, and the response text can now be considered signed

Response text being what the server responded with / the preview?

Oh I see

[lavish compass]

I thought it was Sha1 RSA 4096

[light lodge]

is that signed messages thing a fix for the vulnerability found by liveoverflow?

[vestal jasper]

There was a vuln for chat?

[wet storm]

With that new packet we have an ability to make a really annoying trololo plugin: randomly sent players' messages while they type as a global server message /s

[light lodge]

yeah, with an active attacker, he reported it as MC-249235

[vestal jasper]

That would spam fast

You'd get tons of messages

[light lodge]

*but MC-249235 is private because it's a vuln

[vestal jasper]

Afaik this is so MS and the client can verify if someone actually said something in chat

[light lodge]

for what?

[ivory light]

just thought wonder how it works with execute and like the me command

[void void]

me is signed too iirc

[little frost]

wait but if i understand correctly, server-side rendering can't work without sending the incomplete message? (and thus the warning thingy)

[void void]

same for tell/whisper

[quasi valley]

You sign certain command arguments

[ivory light]

for example if you use me in execute im guessing it just not singed

[quasi valley]

cough

[golden gust]

You, er

might wanna take a lemsip there buddy

Then again

[vestal jasper]

🍋

[golden gust]

This is 2022

Back the fuck off until you got a neggy

[ashen cliff]

_So AuthMe can now add another feature. ✍️ _

[weak oyster]

Hey, what do you prefer, Velocity, Waterfall or the normal Bungeecord? :P

Im not pretty sure which should I install

[golden gust]

Velocity > Waterfall > Bungeecord

[weak oyster]

Okay I just believe you xD

[worthy geode]

https://docs.papermc.io/velocity/why-velocity if you don't want to believe cat

[golden gust]

only real caveat is waiting for the ecosystem to catch up

[rare python]

To my knowledge part of the ecosystem is waiting for velocity to catch up

The tablist API is useless .

[lavish compass]

https://twitter.com/terra_money/status/1524935730308456448

Terra (UST) 🌍 Powered by LUNA 🌕 (@terra_money)

The Terra blockchain has officially halted at block 7607789.

Terra Validators have halted the network to come up with a plan to reconstitute it.

More updates to come.

Likes

30135

Retweets

7227

Twitter · May 13, 2022, 2:13 AM

crying

[mental meadow]

why are you crying

[lavish compass]

crying as in laughing

I don't hold any LUNA/UST

[golden gust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq0TDwzw-O4

[mental meadow]

on one hand I find it incredibly funny, on the other hand it's probably not too great mental health wise

but then you see https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/1524591443964317696

Steampunk Obama (@KrangTNelson)

😎

Likes

79270

Retweets

6304

Twitter · May 12, 2022, 3:25 AM

[golden gust]

Aurora #2, hearing that, i prescribe thee some mitski

[wet storm]

cat sent a weird video. I watched it. What should I do?...

[turbid oar]

What did I just watched..

[golden gust]

well, it's a fan vid to a song

I didn't really pay attention to the vid because brain brrr

But, that's some TV show which has kinda been on my "to watch" list

[turbid oar]

ah

[wet storm]

why is this vid feels creepy

[golden gust]

And I want a love that falls as fast
As a body from the balcony, and
I want a kiss like my heart is hitting the ground

[turbid oar]

Maybe because you saw the knife in it

[wet storm]

pro tip: get a sleep one day, it helps

[wet storm]

and blood

[turbid oar]

True

[ashen cliff]

Just a 99.38% drop. Amazing.

[magic river]

Huh, apparently the Soviets took "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and applied a slight tweak to it in their constitution: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work"

Which is... not the same thing

It's supposed to mean you get paid based on your contributions to the economy vs rent seeking and such, basically profit sharing

But it could also mean someone decides the work you do isn't worth enough for you to eat

[twin lagoon]

@lavish compass where is my tommyinnit

[lavish compass]

offline .

[twin lagoon]

bruh

[ripe sphinx]

[turbid oar]

[twin lagoon]

what

[turbid oar]

You like tommyinnit?

[twin lagoon]

who

[quasi valley]

what's a michael

[twin lagoon]

kenny shut up you german weeb

[wet storm]

define "michael"

[lavish compass]

great minds think alike

[turbid oar]

weak minds think alike

[cunning raft]

https://i.imgur.com/9NdODdZ.png

not fake

[twin lagoon]

why do you have tommy lmao

[cunning raft]

through schlatt

[twin lagoon]

thought so

[turbid oar]

Why like tommyinnit in the first place?

[cunning raft]

before he even had 10k subs

[twin lagoon]

they grow up so fast

[lavish compass]

not fake

[vagrant marlin]

not fake

[wet storm]

Is it okay that I tried Forge and it felt amazing?... Fabric modding feels more like MCP for me, because it is just Minecraft and you, and also some common modding tweaks and practices defined in fabric api, fabric is good for performance mods and all other mods which don't really need api, but Forge feels like a real framework for adding a content for Minecraft...

[vernal moth]

That's exactly what the difference is

[tropic flame]

if that's the difference then Forge indeed sounds better for anything that's not performance mods

at some point you do have to care about compatibility with other mods because realistically no one is going to play with just your mod in game

[turbid oar]

Hello Mini 👋

[tropic flame]

so idk why people go preach for Fabric like it's a holy project

[golden gust]

for some stuff, fabric works just fine because vanilla already supports it to a degree, e.g. custom blocks, etc

[vestal jasper]

How fast does forge support newer snapshots

[golden gust]

Downfall is, ofc, is that you don't have all of the frameworking and years of effort that forge has

[vestal jasper]

On average

[golden gust]

few days, generally

[vestal jasper]

Kk

[golden gust]

at least for early dev builds, but, I think in part they've been playing a bit of catchup still with some stuff

part of the benefits or fabric is that they do less, which works for a lot of mods because vanilla already practically supports what they're doing, so it's not too much extra stuff needed

[vestal jasper]

Another use case for fabric could be testing snapshot changes faster

[golden gust]

Yea, I mean, that's the joy, as they do less, they can release faster

[vestal jasper]

Since afaik ive seen it update (the loader) within hours

Yeee

[worthy geode]

oh yeah, they are very fast usually

[wet storm]

This is what I usually do with fabric, just see and play with snapshot code

[vestal jasper]

Speaking of

I could play with the chat preview stuff

[turbid oar]

Where is off-topic channel?

[wet storm]

see desc for this channel

[haughty bear]

I'm getting an error every time my GH workflow tries to run github-pages-deploy-action:
remote: Permission to aecsocket/aecsocket.github.io.git denied to github-actions[bot].
The requested URL returned error: 403
You can see the log here https://github.com/aecsocket/aecsocket.github.io/runs/6414102376, but I don't understand what's causing it.

[meager dawn]

setting blocks 😬

memory go brr

[meager dawn]

does github actions have repository write permissions

[haughty bear]

it should do, right? default is read/write

[meager dawn]

go to https://github.com/aecsocket/aecsocket.github.io/settings/actions and make sure read and write permissions is checked

[haughty bear]

oh you're kidding me... why does every single other repo I have have that set to read and write?

[meager dawn]

i think they changed the default ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[haughty bear]

is it just because it's a *.github.io repo?

[meager dawn]

i had this problem literally yesterday

[haughty bear]

amazing

well thanks for the help

[meager dawn]

nw :)

it's the lighting engine's fault

[worthy geode]

Relight them later maybe?

[meager dawn]

one thing that still bothers me is there's no flag for heightmaps

they take a while and you can't turn them off

and they're used like nowhere

right but bukkit added a bunch of flags i wish they'd added that one in the process

yeah i've read this

there's various problems with that though

the data palette isn't properly synchronised even though it's meant to be so you can have section-wide race conditions for seemingly no reason at all

dealing with tile entities is also a pain

especially because one of the methods that's used to update the entity tickers is private so you'd have to use reflection or method handles if you wanted to defer it

[meager dawn]

that won't work because of this

ah, the bane of my existence

much better :)

for (BlockPos blockPos : BlockPos.betweenClosed(min, max)) {
    level.setBlock(blockPos, fill, 2 | 16 | 128 | 1024);
    ++counter;
}

source.sendSuccess(toNMNComponent(
    text().content("Filled " + counter + " blocks").build()
), false);

Set<ChunkPos> chunks = ChunkPos.rangeClosed(new ChunkPos(min), new ChunkPos(max))
    .collect(Collectors.toUnmodifiableSet());

threadedLightEngine.relight(chunks, (unused) -> {}, (relit) -> {
    context.getSource().sendSuccess(toNMNComponent(
        text().content("Relit " + relit + " chunks").build()
    ), false);
});

:)

[wet storm]

(sorry for interrupting your current discussion, but...) I think we need a strict definition of what plugin is, I mean, I have my own, usually really weird for people, "ideology" for that... if you'd say that a plugin is what bukkit and sponge api provide, that it'd be really incorrect, platform implementation shouldn't define an abstraction they use. If you'd say that a plugin is a modification of a Minecraft server, it'd be again incorrect, because it is a functionality which server-side mods provide, and plugins don't actually modify a minecraft server. Imo a plugin is a usage of plugin APIs (plugin API is a Minecraft modification in this case) which help administrators maintain their server and it doesn't make an additional content to Minecraft. But in this definition plugins which add an additional content (such as mini games, and survival with additions) to the game aren't plugins, even if they use plugin API... But if you think farther, you'll notice that mod API is a better solution for mini-games and generally adding content...

[cunning raft]

a plugin is when i am able to play amongus via minecraft chatroom

[meager dawn]

ok, a plugin is software component that adds a specific feature to an existing computer program

the distinction between the terms "plugin" and "mod" is necessarily an artefact of the implementations

[spare venture]

you plug it into the server

duh

[meager dawn]

nothing's preventing a plugin from plugging itself in as a java agent and modifying the minecraft server

[wet storm]

I feel am over-engineering something and just wanna force people use mods when they add content to be more fancy with that

[meager dawn]

honestly i think it's about time we all switch to fabric mods anyways

but maybe i shouldn't say that in the papermc discord

[wet storm]

I mean, paper itself is basically can be represented via the fabric mod, and paper is a modification of minecraft itself to support plugins and fix bugs and performance. I think in the block game future there will be a plugin framework which will be made as a mod on some modding platform

[lavish compass]

@warm anchor weeb

[meager dawn]

we can only dream

..or implement it ourselves

but that sounds like work

so dreaming it is

[spare venture]

yeah because players love having to download a mod in order to play on a server

[wet storm]

^ players are lazy

[vestal jasper]

We'll just send the mods from the server to the player

[wet storm]

unsafe thing

[vestal jasper]

Totally never been done before

[warm anchor]

player will download anything if the server is interesting enough 😉

[tropic flame]

if you ask me, I will say that "plugin" and "mod" are different merely by convention

plugins are just serverside mods imo

¯_(ツ)_/¯

"it doesn't modify the game" directly as in source code, but it can add new content which can modify the default gameplay

sounds like a mod to me

[wet storm]

The only way I see to implement it safely is to use Rust or other language which sandboxes and make client-side API providing objects over minecraft client rendering, networking and some data objects using JNI, and make sending it over network, basically WebAssembly for minecraft

[tropic flame]

configuring Essentials so that /afk protects you from getting killed while AFK sounds like something that modifies default gameplay - therefore, Essentials is a mod

it's a plugin, a plugin is a mod

[vestal jasper]

If it's bukkit based, "plugin", if it's not, "mod". This is how I've seen the entirety of the community use them.

[warm anchor]

I mean if you define a mod as modification, yes they are all mods.

[wet storm]

+++++, wanna check it by myself, I'll try to make the best mod I can and implement on a large server network I worked on and see how players will react on this

[vestal jasper]

If you do so much as even insinuate that plugins are mods, people will riot

[tropic flame]

what would mod be short of, then?

modjohnson? 😛

[twin lagoon]

@vestal jasper

[vestal jasper]

Hug

[warm anchor]

true

[tropic flame]

yes but that's more of a convention if you ask me, like I said

[vestal jasper]

All of them are mods, and bukkit based mods and server sided ones are plugins. Problem solved.

Yes

[tropic flame]

yes

[vestal jasper]

The definition derives from the convention.

Words are used first, then defined.

[worthy geode]

kinda, but thats also how pretty much every multiplayer game that uses steam workshop for modding works

[warm anchor]

true. word like weeb

[tropic flame]

do you actually get to download executable code, though? like straight up C++?

because in case of the Source Engine you download models, textures and script files

"assets"

you don't download DLLs on the fly

idk what other engines do

[tropic flame]

and this sounds safer imo

[novel horizon]

I mean

"Požár" means fire

but

like that's a bit too much

[worthy geode]

in case of Space Engineers at least you get C# files, which the game runs

[ashen cliff]

There is also wild fire.

[novel horizon]

[wet storm]

I mean, in this case I don't see in which direction Paper goes, like paper plugins will have every possibility which modern fabric server-side mods have... But it'll be done using independent and specified from NMS API. Hence, paper plugins are fabric server-side mods for people which wanna make their code faster, simpler and mc version independent or for stupid people which have no ability to understand NMS...

[opal matrix]

Does paper have email address on their website?

[vague lagoon]

for what

[opal matrix]

contact

[vague lagoon]

contact for what

[twin lagoon]

who do you need to contact and why

[opal matrix]

Account deletion request

[twin lagoon]

for what

papermc forums?

[opal matrix]

I don't remember, I just know that paper has some data about me, and I have received emails from them, which I no longer want to be registered.

[twin lagoon]

papermc does not send emails?

the only emails you could receive from papermc are from paper's forums

and you'd only get those if you explicitly signed up

[opal matrix]

Yes I have signed up previsouly

long ago

but I no longer need my account

[twin lagoon]

i don't think forums data was persisted

[mental meadow]

Do you mean our forum?

[twin lagoon]

do you have an example email to show

[mental meadow]

You can use https://forums.papermc.io/misc/contact to contact us for any forum privacy thing

Alternatively [e-mail] should work too, at least thats what linked on our GitHub. Not sure who from the Core Team receives that

[opal matrix]

I am using a service which searches internet for data privacy, and it has notified me that I have an account from papermc.io and the didn't have paper's contact information, that's why I'm trying to find out what's the email for that

yep its forums

[twin lagoon]

how long ago was that email?

[opal matrix]

july 2021

[twin lagoon]

that would be papermc's legacy forums then

[opal matrix]

thank you

[mental meadow]

Ah thats the old forum then yea

[twin lagoon]

https://papermc.io/forums/

[mental meadow]

I'd delete your account for you but apparently I can't log in anymore either 😄

[vernal moth]

Isn't that side in archive mode?

[mental meadow]

Yeah

[vernal moth]

Nothing is getting deleted there

[mental meadow]

Have you heard about GDPR mini

[twin lagoon]

could still null emails

[vernal moth]

I have, that's why I know how it works

[mental meadow]

Your 2 last messages are kinda contradicting each other

[vestal jasper]

What's your implication then

[vernal moth]

Let's not armchair lawyer this

[vestal jasper]

That it's not necessary to purge archived data upon request?

[vernal moth]

The guy got an email where they can send a GDPR request too, if they care

[wet storm]

Geometry Dash Pull Request

[vernal moth]

We can then evaluate it

But it's the weekend, business is closed, sorry

Fucking train could show up too now, I am getting bored

[mental meadow]

was there something bad in your kölsch today?

[vernal moth]

That's the thing, I didn't had any yet

[mental meadow]

aaah

that explains it

[vernal moth]

Cause the train didn't come yet

[mental meadow]

😄

[vernal moth]

Am literally on my way downtown 😂

[vestal jasper]

Minis blåhaj went missing

[twin lagoon]

🥺

[mental meadow]

ooof

[vernal moth]

I don't have plushies

[mental meadow]

[vernal moth]

I had a shark as a kid, but it wasn't a plush

Cold plastic

That's what made me such a cold person

[vestal jasper]

It's never too late to get a blåhaj

[warm anchor]

I was a shark as a kid I just bite people

[twin lagoon]

fucking weeb

you know who else is a shark

[vestal jasper]

Weeb

[twin lagoon]

[wet storm]

wtf furry

[warm anchor]

no that's leaf

[mental meadow]

I see I haven't spammed enough weeb emotes

i have more dont worry

[spare venture]

if mojang does it i’ll cry

[warm anchor]

barty in shambles

[spare venture]

cry tears of joy

[mental meadow]

thats what they all say

[wet storm]

weeb emojis corrupt my mind

[spare venture]

i would love to not have to use bukkit api to make custom items and content

but i can also do that by neglecting my server which sounds easier

[mental meadow]

just use your imagination, ez

[wet storm]

 SIGSEGV (0xb) at pc=0x00007ff5c7195aaa, pid=262778, tid=140690480097024

 Denery Runtime Environment version: 6.9_4.20
 Denery VM: Denery HotSpot(TM) 2-Bit Server VM (20.10-b01 mixed mode linux-amd64 compressed oops)
 Problematic frame:
 Aurrora-Eternity  [weeb_emoji_corruption.so+0xb7aaa]  long double restrict+0x506f6

[mental meadow]

tremble before my unimaginable power

[still sorrel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/699754127999369237/972479193642323998/This-should-be-a-federal-crime.jpg?width=394&height=702

actually a good threat

[obsidian moon]

What's wrong with Windows 11?

[golden gust]

general 1 step forward, 2 steps back UX stuff

They try to make stuff look pretty while bastardising functionality

refusal to just outright break shit and move forward

control panel/settings being a BIG example of that

Like, the control panel is probably never gonna be removed, you need the control panel to still do stuff that the settings app won't cover, yet they try to hide it more and more as time goes on

[still sorrel]

windows 11 tries it best to dox you

you literally cant screen share in windows 11 without getting doxed by accident

you press windows key and instantly your full name appears

like what the fuck is with that design

heck its even constantly visible in the settings menu

[wet storm]

never thought that one day I'd deal with forge 1.12.2 + mixins (bootstrapping via coremod)

[warm anchor]

How about I don’t have to download a patcher in first place

I am still on windows 10

[obsidian moon]

windows XP