general

[golden gust]

They literally exposed an endpoint for dealing with personal stuff

[native wolf]

...

[golden gust]

nope

that's not what they're saying

I mean, we did take some liberties, but, what you're saying is that we'd effectively have /projects/paper/download?version=X&?build=X&file=X

[potent wedge]

what no I meant like <api-ver>/<project>/<version>/<build>

[golden gust]

Okay, maybe I was wrong, they where saying that, but that's their optinionated thing

Which is literally against the spec and is dumb

You are LITERALLY falling into the exact same thing you said against

[placid thicket]

TBH i value readability of the current system way more than saving a handful of characters which there is zero point of saving

[potent wedge]

its less bad than what your doing of api/<api-ver>/project/<project>/version/<version>

[golden gust]

Not really

[foggy veldt]

What endpoint do you hit to receive a list of projects

[golden gust]

at least what we're doing actually follows a spec which people use

[placid thicket]

^

[golden gust]

not tryna clobber it down to save characters in a manner which makes little sense

[potent wedge]

google reddit roblox dont use these "specs"

[golden gust]

and?

[potent wedge]

ill find more

[golden gust]

I don't care

[native wolf]

is Paper Google? does it have to be like Google, Reddit, or whatever?

[golden gust]

There are many different design patterns for this, could we of cut it down and just gone crazy with params? yea, sure

[native wolf]

no, it doesn't

[potent wedge]

so what your saying is we should use what other people use and then when I say ill find more proof other people use this you say "i dont care"

[foggy veldt]

Question ignored 😔

[golden gust]

We followed a specific design pattern which is used elsewhere and is highly cachable

I'm sayin its a standard design pattern

[potent wedge]

what im saying is it should be better and more efficient wich is what these do

[placid thicket]

point is, the standard is not being changed to something inferior for no reason, as you don't have any reason at all to change it i dont see why its being argued

[golden gust]

there are many standard design patterns out there for REST

some will use nesting of points

some go crazy with optional params

[placid thicket]

what efficiency? there is literally no benefit unless you are running like 80s hardware

[native wolf]

you aren't getting that much efficiency tho, it's literally not worth it

[potent wedge]

its easier to remember

[golden gust]

I've literally yet to see a sane platform use the pattern you're contending

[placid thicket]

why are you remembering it? you type it once in your script and thats it

[native wolf]

the current API design is more logical than what you want

[worthy geode]

is this really a discussion about two words in the API url? oO

[potent wedge]

so google nor reddit and roblox arent sane?

[native wolf]

yes, sadly

[potent wedge]

not two words, its one word for every number wich is like 5

[placid thicket]

reddit? absolutely not. roblox hasn't been sane since it went public

[golden gust]

google nor reddit and roblox are using the pattern you're literally talking about

[potent wedge]

i provided proof though

[golden gust]

of what?

that there are many design patterns to rest?

[potent wedge]

of them using the pattern im talking about

[golden gust]

No

you literally didn't

[potent wedge]

if you look at the reddit api
/api/v1/me
/api/v1/me/blocked
/api/v1/me/friends
/api/v1/me/karma
/api/v1/me/prefs
/api/v1/me/trophies
they didnt go /api/version/v1/user/me/request/blocked

also this is what youtubes api is
https://www.googleapis.com/youtube/v3/videos?id=7lCDEYXw3mM&key=YOUR_API_KEY
&part=snippet,contentDetails,statistics,status
you can see it skipped /api/ and just did v3 it skipped /projects/ and just did youtube

[golden gust]

/me/blocked

/me/karma

[potent wedge]

the /me is for a user

[golden gust]

yes

you're not talking about /me/prefs

[potent wedge]

its just api/<ver>/<user>/<thing> isntead of api/<api>/ver/<ver>/user/<user>/thing/<thing>

[golden gust]

you're literally talking /paper/1.18.2/299

[foggy veldt]

How do you get a different user besides yourself

[potent wedge]

by instead of me just doing a user id

[foggy veldt]

No

[golden gust]

me is an endpoint pointing to personal stuff

[golden gust]

generally you'd go for something /user and either take a user as a request param or in the url

[foggy veldt]

I hope this is all a bait and I just wasted my time searching their docs

[potent wedge]

yes I took a small snippet from that

[golden gust]

but, I've not seen a sane pattern anywhere which takes /endpoint/:param/:param/:param

/endpoint/{:entity}?param=val&param=val

[potent wedge]

I just showed you two though

[foggy veldt]

That’s a shortcut endpoint

For getting the current user, it’s not applicable to a download api

[golden gust]

You've literally shown us 0 APIs using the url request pattern which you showed

(as your "ideal"

you showed a typical example of a pattern which minimises nesting of things in preference towards creating more endpoints and using request params

[potent wedge]

I did and you discarded that as nonsense from me and asked for actual real world things that used it so I showed you that and now your asking for the

[golden gust]

where?

[potent wedge]

READ

[golden gust]

You.

[potent wedge]

You are literally the only person who gives a crap

well not really im gonna read more

[golden gust]

We use /projects/:entity/version/:entity/builds/:entity...
You showed API endpoints using /endpoint/:entity?param=val&param=val
Your "ideal" that you showed was /:entity/:entity/:entity

[potent wedge]

ditches **standard API design practices** all because of 1 person

[potent wedge]

thanks for restating the conversation thank you

[golden gust]

I mean

you'll note that the pattern we use, and the ones you showed, do not line up with your "ideal" at all

[potent wedge]

they do? Reddit was similar to api/<ver>/<user>/<action>

[golden gust]

api/endpoint/:entity/action

is not api/endpoint/:entity/:entity/:entity

[potent wedge]

its damn close enough

[golden gust]

No, it's not

rest apis distinctly clarify between entities and actions

[foggy veldt]

Reddit is /api/:ver/users/:id you misread docs

[potent wedge]

where do I see that

[golden gust]

api/v1/user/:username/trophies

[twin lagoon]

this is possibly one of the dumbest discussions we've had in #general

[smoky cloud]

Should’ve gone to Specsavers

[potent wedge]

the /user practicaly stands for user api so its more like api/<ver>/<specific_api>/<username>/<action>

[smoky cloud]

What

[foggy veldt]

At this point if they’re like lolol get baited nerds I just trolled you for 30 minutes id be happy

[potent wedge]

if people stopped ghosting me every time I gave a good arguement id be happy

I will give proof for that because electornic cat keeps asking me for proof of proof

[smoky cloud]

Give a good argument then

[golden gust]

once again,

you showed reddit uses /endpoint/:entity/action

you showed that google uses /endpoint?param=val&...

none of them are using /endpoint/:entity/:entity/:entity

some people prefer to avoid nesting stuff, but it's not an uncommon design pattern

[potent wedge]

you said nobody sane used it before

now your saying its uncommon

[golden gust]

no?

what?

I said nobody sane uses :entity/:entity/:entity

you've literally yet to show anybody use :entity/:entity/:entity

[potent wedge]

ive also never said they haved to follow it perfectly

[golden gust]

You're literally saying we should use :entity/:entity/:entity

You have literally yet to show anybody using that

nesting resources is somewhat of a point of contention, but, this is a GET, either we use request params or we use nesting

many request params is not ideal for caching and is generally a pita

[cosmic phoenix]

how are query params worse for caching?

I do not mean to advocate for their use in this case. I do not know

[twin lagoon]

usually ignored for caching

[viral hornet]

I stand with @potent wedge !

[golden gust]

dealing with params is generally hit and miss, some stuff will cache it nicely, eithers stuff is sensitve to the order, others will just completely dismiss it

[cosmic phoenix]

https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/360023040812-Best-Practice-Caching-Everything-While-Ignoring-Query-Strings

ok

[twin lagoon]

both solutions they give you on that page are not feasible for most of us here

[potent wedge]

if you look at the reddit api /api/v1/me /api/v1/me/blocked /api/v1/me/friends /api/v1/me/karma /api/v1/me/prefs /api/v1/me/trophies
You can see it is api/<ver>/<user>/<action> https://www.googleapis.com/youtube/v3/videos?id=7lCDEYXw3mM&key=YOUR_API_KEY &part=snippet,contentDetails,statistics,status but for youtube it is <project>/<version>/<action>?stuff,stuff,stuff,stuff,stuff
while paperMC is project/<project>/download/version/<version>/build/<build>/download/<download> both of them are better then paper and follow my idea of a better one better than paper

[golden gust]

which

is still not

:entity/:entity/:entity

nesting vs top level is not set in stone

there are arguments for both

many prefer top level, for what we do, nesting makes a good chunk of sense otherwise we'd have to ditch exposing build numbers nicely or go crazy with params

[cosmic phoenix]

maybe make issue here @potent wedge https://github.com/PaperMC/bibliothek/issues

i do not think convincing here is good idea

[golden gust]

You seem to be lacking the actual understanding of what and how is being passed into the API, thus why you are basically the only person who thinks that your argument has any standing

[cosmic phoenix]

there you can lay out all points in one and have good thought. here it is argue argue argue in circle

[twin lagoon]

and moving to github issues fixes what exactly...?

[cosmic phoenix]

makes easier to close

[twin lagoon]

fucking based

go for it

[potent wedge]

in the first image you can see what it looks like the way your doing it in the second you can see how it works the way im doing it (ignore different languages) :chad:

[smoky cloud]

What

[twin lagoon]

the fuck has that to do with anything

[golden gust]

Which is still literally api/:entity/:entity/:entity

you have still yet to show an API which does :entity/:entity/:entity

[potent wedge]

okay

[golden gust]

I mean

a public API which actually does that.

I don't care what you wanna show in your pointless code example

[potent wedge]

I was argueing that it was more efficient at first now you just want to know who uses it

an example of it working better under my example

[golden gust]

and I literally said that we don't care about the few bytes

we'd prefer to follow a design pattern which is standard

[coarse lily]

Standardization is helpful.

[potent wedge]

well if you want standardization theres nothing wrong with that

[golden gust]

that was practically the first thing I said...

That's literally been my entire point...

[potent wedge]

this is what you first said, that it was "needed to serve multiple files" not that you wanted the standardization aspect

[golden gust]

That's a perfectly standard design pattern for such APIs

[smoky cloud]

It’s in your screenshot…

[twin lagoon]

what a day

[smoky cloud]

I’m supposed to be sleeping but this is better

[potent wedge]

cant wait to be the laughing stock of some obscure subreddit in exactly 5 minuts from now and 3 months when the idea is re-posted

it still works better though

[smoky cloud]

How

[twin lagoon]

it doesn't

[coarse lily]

You should entertain the idea that maybe you think it works better (for you) but no one else does.

And then move on.

This conversation is like 8x longer than it should have been.

[twin lagoon]

@coarse lily

[golden gust]

My fave part about @deprecated is when IT'S LITERALLY THE ONLY WAY TO DO SOMETHING

[potent wedge]

Lmao

[unkempt drift]

CAT

what is happening

can you not spawn a Thrown potion and do the same thing?

[golden gust]

Yes, I just thought that the classes there would like, do stuff

No idea why those classes still exist if they're pretty much useless

[unkempt drift]

that class isn't used anywhere

so what do you mean its the only way to do smth?

[golden gust]

I thought it was the only way to spawn splash potions

[unkempt drift]

oh yeah, no. just use ThrownPotion

[golden gust]

Which is not the case as they share the same class internally now

And so, those api classes are half dangling

Which is just stupid

[unkempt drift]

SplashPotion works there cause it checks class hierarchy

but yeah, casting anything to SplashPotion will fail

[golden gust]

Yea, ik, but it can't return that type ad the api implies, which is dumb

[unkempt drift]

we could make CraftThrownPotion implement SplashPotion

[golden gust]

Would need to implement lingering too for full coverage which is kinda bleh

[unkempt drift]

I think we should actually delete those classes then

actually, LingeringPotion is specially handled in the spawn methods

this is super dumb. if you do spawn(LingeringPotion.class) the resulting entity is different from spawn(ThrownPotion.class)

            } else if (ThrownPotion.class.isAssignableFrom(clazz)) {
                if (LingeringPotion.class.isAssignableFrom(clazz)) {
                    entity = new net.minecraft.world.entity.projectile.ThrownPotion(world, x, y, z);
                    ((net.minecraft.world.entity.projectile.ThrownPotion) entity).setItem(CraftItemStack.asNMSCopy(new ItemStack(org.bukkit.Material.LINGERING_POTION, 1)));
                } else {
                    entity = new net.minecraft.world.entity.projectile.ThrownPotion(world, x, y, z);
                    ((net.minecraft.world.entity.projectile.ThrownPotion) entity).setItem(CraftItemStack.asNMSCopy(new ItemStack(org.bukkit.Material.SPLASH_POTION, 1)));
                }
            }

[golden gust]

Yea, it's really weird

[unkempt drift]

wait, doesnt that violate the method contract then? with the generics?

[golden gust]

Yup, which is what tripped me up

And the interface for those two classes doesn't clarify that either, it just alluded that the methods on there was moved up

[unkempt drift]

well I think we should just have CraftThrownPotion implement both of those then

and then clarify wtf is happening on the javadocs for both

but actually, undeprecate LingeringPotion since it is valid

and it not exactly the same as ThrownPotion

well idk about undeprecating it actually, its not a different entity type, it just has a different spawn behavior

[golden gust]

Yea, long term o vote for yeet

[unkempt drift]

yes for sure

oh I didnt even realize that LingeringPotion isnt deprecated on spigot, that's a paper added thing

[golden gust]

Speaking of yeet, imma yeet myself into bed

Oh, lingering is ours? I'd probs just mark both as for removal in 1.19 or whatever

[unkempt drift]

yeah am doing so

just gonna make this its own patch I think

[unreal pike]

not sure where to ask but,
Someone on my server got accused of ping spoofing. Looked it up and looks like its used to fake ping. But Wurst mods shouldnt work here? Is there another client that does this?

nvm looks like they can do it without a client

thats annoying

[potent wedge]

Not only wurst can sping poof along with that any defenses against it wouldn't favor unlucky people

[potent wedge]

And would be easy to stop

Like just making an array and seeing if it is the exact same may not favor unlucky people

[magic river]

What would be the point of delaying the heartbeat packets to make it look like you have bad ping?

1. Minecraft PVP is garbage anyway so it probably doesn't matter
2. If your "bad ping" makes you look like a cheater you should get banned anyway, having an excuse for having an unfair advantage doesn't make it less of an unfair advantage

[potent wedge]

Bad ping can let you see things before they happen and all that

It can also bug out the server and it thinks your somewhere you aren't for a tick or two

I think the Mojang server even has a bad-ping mode that makes corrections and places more trust on the client and let's you walk through walls 💠 though I don't think that actually works

[magic river]

Minecraft isn't like other games, it has no latency compensation

You also won't ever have your attack be out of sync from your position, all packets arrive and are processed in the order they were sent

[coarse lily]

You aren't really thinking of it from the perspective of people who love to PvP (for some reason)

They see a higher number and think "I can beat this person because they're gonna lag"

So if you're on a server where people (again, for some reason) want to PvP then you might be able to "lure" people in.

Is it dumb? Sure.

But so is eating an entire box of Cinnabon

So here we are.

[magic river]

I guess that might be a thing, yeah

From a technical perspective faking a high ping does nothing and actually having a high ping hurts as much as it helps (or hurts more even)

[coarse lily]

Sometimes you gotta walk a meter in their dumb shoes.

[magic river]

But if you're trying to trick people then yeah, I suppose

[coarse lily]

Yeah they're always trying to trick people

Kinda gotta since the game is dumb

Very little actual skill.

[magic river]

I guess they're all just assuming everyone is cheating too and using a mod to put extra information about players in an overlay

[coarse lily]

Haha that too

[magic river]

Otherwise I wouldn't check the player list for bars in the middle of deciding if I should run or fight

[foggy veldt]

I make those decisions on if they have pvp, mc, xx, plays, or yt in their name

[magic river]

I wonder if there is anything other than the heartbeat and teleport packet you could get implicit latency information from

Those are the only request->response ones that don't involve a delay for the player to do something, I think

[fossil rover]

Hey guys. Sorry if there is a better place for this but does anyone know the best place to start when setting up Discord bots? I just launched my server a week ago and everything is set up as I’ve done servers a million times (over the years) but I’ve never used Discord with my servers. Therefore, I have no knowledge of bots but have been informed they’re extremely necessary as the servers grows. Cheers

[magic river]

You mean like a moderation bot?

https://github.com/DV8FromTheWorld/JDA https://github.com/Discord4J/Discord4J

[fossil rover]

Thank you!

[potent wedge]

No not log4j

[proven adder]

so i put particle amount to 50000000

and the game crashes

[vestal jasper]

Unfortunate

[lavish compass]

@vestal jasper

@warm anchor weeb

[high mirage]

@lavish compass ping

(why are we doing this?)

[warm anchor]

@high mirage this is how we show loves

@lavish compass

[high mirage]

ah

understandable

[lavish compass]

[high mirage]

thought they were just doing the thing where people ping randoms with one words

also missed that this was papercord so like

[lavish compass]

nah i only ping people i know

Michael is still sleeping smh

[vernal moth]

michael lazy

[lavish compass]

so true

CVE-2022-26809

[stone crag]

Hi

[coarse lily]

CVE-2014-0160

[lavish compass]

Nightmare

[wet storm]

Imagine pinging someone in general 🙄 /s

[charred sleet]

what’s the difference between a mailbox and an account

[coarse lily]

@swift root

[swift root]

AGH

hello!

[coarse lily]

;)

[vestal jasper]

You have to pretend to fall asleep to fall asleep

[stone crag]

Often true ^^^

Depends on how tired u actually are

Are you really tired you could fall asleep by hitting the pillow

[magic river]

Sleep? Why do that when you can push directly to master at 2am?

Ok, technically it's staging so it'll only deploy to our test environment but still, I started writing this code at 11pm and didn't go through any code review before pushing it

I'll probably regret that in the morning but for now I've got all the dopamines for finishing a project

[vernal moth]

https://github.com/aadnk/ProtocolLib/pull/197

[magic river]

Ah yes, I too can run all the default IntelliJ inspections and formatter on a project

At least some of this is probably a good idea to do but yikes

[high mirage]

curiously, my static analysis tool I found in GitHub says that none of your code is in use in you're Minecraft library plugin, therefore I am deleting all of the unused cove

[magic river]

I bet they had like one or two things they wanted to change (there are some actual code/config changes in there) and got upset at seeing all the yellow lines when they opened it in IntelliJ

[high mirage]

a few of those finals are arguably a good idea

[high mirage]

is definitely what happened

[magic river]

On the other hand looking at the commits those changes might all just be from pulling in the changes in dmulloy2's repo

https://github.com/aadnk/ProtocolLib/pull/197/commits/6f8eda567c32d8a8c4c9c40de45c6d68b05ba549 is the only thing they actually did

[vernal moth]

yep

[high mirage]

their commit is still 1150 lines of auto format

[magic river]

So yeah, they just bumped some dependency versions and let IntelliJ autofixers loose on the project

[vernal moth]

hence my "is it october yet" comment

[vapid egret]

is there anyone using AWS's ECS, EKS or GameLift?
i just want to know if it is possible to make a minecraft server with one of them

[high mirage]

there's a place where they use a string switch in place of a weird nested comparison so like at least a little thought went into that

[magic river]

The parts that aren't rearranging imports and sprinkling final on things are probably still a good idea

Nah, IntelliJ will do that for you

[high mirage]

damn

that's actually kinda neat

[vapid egret]

intellij god

[magic river]

They have one spot in here they change an iterator to a for each loop, that feels like it's going to break something but maybe someone wrote the original code in 2003 😄

[high mirage]

maybe the code also did something weird with the iterator before and stopped doing it

have seen people like skip elements and stuff in the middle of them in network code before

I'd personally ask them to explain the rationale of each individual change

[magic river]

TIL you can't add or remove elements from the List you get back from Arrays.asList()

[high mirage]

you cannot

[vernal moth]

its immutable iirc

[high mirage]

as it's backed by the array you pass in

[magic river]

It's not an ArrayList like I expected

[vernal moth]

its more dumb than an array list

[magic river]

It's a special List implementation that is just a wrapper around array API

[vernal moth]

no resizing logic and shit

[magic river]

It's not immutable though, you can replace an entry

[high mirage]

yeah

[vernal moth]

oh thats dumb then

[high mirage]

nah

you can't add or remove elements because it would change the size of the array

[vernal moth]

I guess its what it says, a list representation of an array, with all array features

does it mutate the OG array?

[high mirage]

Arrays.asList(a) literally gives you a wrapped in a List

like mutation and all happens against that array iirc

[magic river]

Yeah, it's just a wrapper around the array

So instead of foo[0] = false; you do foo.set(0, false);

[shell kelp]

give me idea for plugin pleace :3

[merry talon]

that method mutating the array seems absolutely braindead

in no universe would I expect that

actually nothing should be mutable ever but that's a different discussion

[magic river]

Rust makes mutability okay

It's nice to not have to choose between mutable or immutable but instead make that decision on a line by line basis

I can give you a reference to my data that is immutable or mutable but that has nothing to do with whether or not I can mutate it

Although I can't mutate it if I gave you a mutable reference since that would be dangerous

[dusk drift]

Will we ever see timings moved to timings.papermc.io ?

[vernal moth]

I dont see why not, but generally, most people use spark or other proper profilers nowadays, timings fell out of style, so there is not much interest in touching stuff I guess

[worn ember]

sponge even dropped timings

[vapid egret]

how bout replacing timings with spark :)

[vernal moth]

Mmh?

Just install spark?

[golden gust]

Timings can still give context which spark doesn't, and is much easier to support several dozen people with for most cases vs tryna read eberybodies spark reports, etc

[void void]

i gotta start plucking out some of my eyebrow hairs. I look like a monkey

[wide chasm]

Nothing more than 2022 currently.

[ashen cliff]

[vernal moth]

nothing indicates that

why would that noticeably increase ram usage?

[ashen cliff]

Mini you clearly have no idea how memory consumption works.

[vernal moth]

clearly

stupid memes stay on tiktok

[wide chasm]

!kick @void void Keep tiktok memes on tiktok

[thorny flicker]

:raised_hands: Kicked Possum#3858 (Keep tiktok memes on tiktok) [1 total infraction] -- stefvanschie#7609.

[worn ember]

good

i appreciate tiktok hate

[novel horizon]

[ancient stream]

💀

[ashen cliff]

Then sending memes in the wrong channel is a hate speech crime.

[worn ember]

always funny when they go complain in another discord about it

[vernal moth]

since when is a kick bad?

md_5 kicked me prolly hundred of times from irc, its his way to show appreciation for my jokes!

[worn ember]

or maybe he thinks you're the joke

[vernal moth]

nah, the last time he kicked me from discord the joke was really funny

https://i.imgur.com/IoMfGdq.png

[warm anchor]

Now I am curious what is being burr out

[ashen nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/get-out-the-lion-king-comedy-humor-throw-gif-9615975

[tidal spoke]

What do you guys think of MohistMc and Magma? I heard there has been drama around magma which led to many plugin devs to stop recommending it, but i have no idea of the specifics. MohistMc looks good but in their website, they mention splitting and rebranding from the "Mohist community", which indicate there might be drama there too? Anyone has thoughts and advice?

[vernal moth]

cancer

any attempt to make forge and bukkit work is doomed from the start and only produces cancer

[tidal spoke]

Gotcha, care to elaborate?

[golden gust]

bukkit was not designed to work in a modded environment

you have two pieces of software all with different practices around interacting with stuff tryna be mangled together

99% of what those codebases do is pretty much maintaining hack over hack in order to try to get stuff to work, which ultimatly ends up falling apart and falling into some variation of disrepair

[glass crag]

BukkitForge/Cauldron in 1.2.5-1.7.10 era were great, it's been a while since I've used these combo-servers though, maybe MC and mods getting more complex has made things harder

[golden gust]

it wasn't great

[muted storm]

Sponge is better if you want an API that has a better attempt at supporting modded environments

[glass crag]

I experienced very few problems

[golden gust]

just the server was much less advance so there was a little less places of contention

Now the servers drastically changed and all the tech debt in bukkit is showing even harder thus creating a wider bridge

you'll note that literally every single platform which tries to marry bukkit and forge together literally only lasts for a single version before they pretty much either quit or have to restart from scratch more or less

[glass crag]

i dont understand why they havent all jumped on sponge instead

[ashen cliff]

That's really what you need.
To only support 1 version, preferably killed by the original devs. Like 1.7.10.

[glass crag]

^

[golden gust]

well, sponge was kinda slow updating due to all of the retooling, etc

[glass crag]

1.7 got a chokehold on modded mc

[golden gust]

and, the ecosystem there is much smaller than bukkits refusal to move forward

[tidal spoke]

Great explanation, thanks alot, that's helpful. My goal with this is to have a forge modpack with something like EssentialsX for general features, and maybe something for inventory rollbacks

[ashen cliff]

That should work.

Just don't expect support.

[tidal spoke]

I wasn't tbh 😅

[glass crag]

i'd use sponge or forge mods

[golden gust]

you'd be better off using sponge and looking for sane alternatives there

[glass crag]

nucleus is probably still a thing which is basically sponge's essentials

[tidal spoke]

I always shyed away from making my community server modded because it sounds like a big pain as soon as there's more than 4-5 friends

But my users have been asking for it alot

[tidal spoke]

Gotcha, thanks to all of you for giving me a general overview of what to expect!

[void void]

electroniccat next time minidigger comes on the server send him this - german music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BwktcMHT80&ab_channel=Faun-Topic

[golden gust]

1. he lurks

2. it's all about the balloons

[void void]

what balloons?

[golden gust]

the red ones

[wet storm]

🎈

[golden gust]

99 of those suckers

or, there abouts

[worn ember]

theres a lot of management mods out there too

so you dont really even need sponge

[wet storm]

Participate draft PRs with complex API solutions? See complex problem and give an easy solution which will solve the whole problem which no one other thought about before? Make profiler and microbenchmark measurements, concurrenct stress tests, optimizing some part of minecraft? Find API or minecraft bugs and increase stability? Wen?????

[magic river]

?

I did those for a few years as the most active developer of the Bukkit project, not sure what you mean

[limber knot]

Reminder: IRC is bad.

[golden gust]

IRC more enviromentally friendly doe

[wet storm]

Oh, sorry, bad joke, I meant that dude who did some little formatting fixes and final in some places...

[golden gust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6BUPvE2sM - find me a better song

I'll wait

(also, as somebody who did english lit, that top comment, just, fucking preach it...)

[left swift]

https://youtu.be/XqZsoesa55w

I age 3 years waiting for you to finish typing a 5 word sentence denery

[limber knot]

I'm sorry but this is cleary superior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWfDKEocQHM

wait, that's not the video ;_;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ2PtEx9-ls

[wet storm]

Like, I don't understand what happens in people's brain while I see "typo in readme fix" commits or really tiny enhancements, I'd rather put my effort into making my software better rather than this, I needed fancy stuff like Brain API in paper, I tried to do something with it, but eh, it is too hard for me to make compatibility with every other bukkit thing and its internals while making it for myself, I'd rather use NMS for that or switch my project to fabric platform cuz there are no strict requirements about that, rather than put my effort into messing around with legacy for benefit from that for other people... run away, idk what I am even talking about, I wanna sleep

[magic river]

Eh, there is value in cleaning up typos in comments and such

Not a ton but it's worth doing

[wide chasm]

Doing some smaller stuff is also a good way to get acquainted with the code and the repo as a whole, so for some, such tiny changes may just be stepping stones towards contributing more meaningful changes.

[magic river]

Those are usually code fixes but getting a feel for the PR process and confidence you can actually work on a project is a thing, yeah

[wet storm]

Hmmm, I need to rethink my point of view, prob my thoughts about this theme are results of people bulling me that I did nothing or put too little effort in some project, hence I also started apply it to other people...

[left swift]

[golden gust]

I mean, there is defo the aspects of maintanance and such

it would be stupid to accept a meaningless set of "cleanups" which just breaks the entire PR queue

but, I mean, trivial things here and there which are easy to toss in are just, well, easy

much of it boils into time and politics

[vernal moth]

We are aware and have talked :)

[left swift]

let's do it again

I want denerys dissertation in 30 minutes

[wet storm]

I deleted that thing I was typing cuz no one will care about it, or you'll suggest me going to a psychologist lol

[foggy veldt]

What’s tldr of video, thumbnail looks clickbaity and I have too much pride to get clickbaited

[vestal jasper]

It's LiveOverflow it's worth watching regardless

[foggy veldt]

Oh sounds fun

[mental meadow]

heeyy

[warm anchor]

Good evening aurora

[cold pumice]

Hi Aurora!

[mental meadow]

i'm back hooome

[foggy veldt]

welcome baaack

[lavish compass]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/806461073199988737/967126721105113118/attachment.gif

[magic river]

The "Note" part (like half the message) is a stock boilerplate they put on all Java CVEs

They wanted to ensure people knew all the sandbox escapes and such that used to happen only mattered if you were trying to run untrusted code aka not servers

I think the exploit here would be using DNS cache poisoning to make a program connect to a different server than expected and then the TLS cert validation would be what you attack?

Or maybe if someone has an SSH server written in Java you could just log in as whatever user you want

[pastel reef]

How would an AMD E1-2100 run Minecraft?

[vague lagoon]

client? server?

[pastel reef]

Client

[golden gust]

20 SPT

[magic river]

Hey that's the basis of the PS4 and XB1

[pastel reef]

Excuse me what?

[magic river]

PS4 and XB1 have 8 cores (downclocked even) of that same netbook/tablet CPU

They have a bigger GPU, of course

Well, not that one since that appears to be the lowest of low end version with 1 GHz base clock and no boost clock

They run faster than that, not much though 😄

But yeah, I suspect that will run Minecraft at about 5-10 fps

[pastel reef]

It's slower than a Core 2 Duo P8600, right?

[magic river]

Oh yeah

[vague lagoon]

could probably make that higher with fabric and optimization mods

[magic river]

This was meant for cheap tablets in 2013

No no, the 5-10 fps was assuming you had all the optimizations you could throw at it

In reality I suspect this won't even run MC 1.17+

[pastel reef]

My friend has an old Toshiba laptop with that inside.

And it will only boot Windows for some reason

[worthy geode]

poor guy, that is really slow

[magic river]

The iGPU in that is about the same as the iGPU in Ivy Bridge systems

[pastel reef]

Well he has a NASA-Pc under his desk though so, he ain't complaining about anything.

[golden gust]

linux and dated hardware is always fun, especially as that was around the time when shit was becoming semi unstable af with things like UEFI starting to become the norm

[magic river]

Ivy Bridge could run MC 1.5 but not at 60 fps, even with optifine

[spare venture]

wtf

[pastel reef]

Ivy Bridge is Intel HD, right?

[magic river]

Newer versions are even heavier although sodium is much better at optimizations than optifine was back then

Yeah

But MC, even on the client, is mostly CPU bound and this CPU is much slower than any Ivy Bridge system

So it would run MC even worse than the Ivy Bridge laptop I was sent way back when to try to make MC run well on it

[pastel reef]

Well it seams to really dislike the hard drive

It takes half a minute to load the Windows search bar

[spare venture]

i can’t imagine running a pc that potato

[magic river]

Yeah, this thing chugged on 2013 versions of Android, forget about running a full desktop OS well on it

[pastel reef]

But it's still x86 right?

[wide chasm]

My pc has a better cpu than that, I would forget about trying to run Minecraft on it.

Because, spoiler, my pc can no longer run Minecraft.

[magic river]

It is technically an amd64 CPU, yes

[pastel reef]

Why not?

[magic river]

So there is nothing blocking it from actually running the JVM and MC in that JVM

I think that GPU might even actually have enough GL support to still load MC 1.17+

But 5 fps might have been optimistic the more I think about it 😄

[pastel reef]

I'm not bothering, I got a 13 year old MacBook running 1.18.2 at 40 fps with 8 Chunks, not messing with computers that are any slower.

[wide chasm]

Hardware is too old. It was already way below minimum requirement, but since 1.17 it completely stopped working due to the OpenGL changes. If you have a graphics card that can handle it, you can probably start the game, but even when it worked, getting 30 fps on my cpu was a struggle, so I wouldn't expect much.

[magic river]

Does that MacBook have a dedicated GPU?

[pastel reef]

Yes

[magic river]

Thought so 😄

[wide chasm]

The loom gui already didn't display properly prior to 1.17, though, so working is a bit of a stretch.

[golden gust]

opengl 4.6

[magic river]

There is no way the Core 2 Duo's iGPU would be able to run that well

[pastel reef]

As electroniccat calls it, it has an NVIDIA 9400 Massively shite

So NVIDIA 9400M

[wide chasm]

As a Core 2 Duo user, no, no it can't run that well.

[magic river]

iirc the first machine I played MC on was either a Core Duo or Core 2 Duo and an nvidia 7400 Go

But that was alpha and it didn't run well

By beta 1.7 it was already basically unplayable

[pastel reef]

Macs are just amazing

[magic river]

Your mac isn't doing anything magic

In fact the macOS OpenGL stack is generally slower and buggier than Windows or Linux

[wide chasm]

30 fps is playable I'd say, which is what I could hit on 1.16 in the right circumstances with essentially the lowest settings.

[pastel reef]

That's why it's on Fedora :D

It doesn't support anything newer than El Capitan anyway.

[golden gust]

openGL, cute

[pastel reef]

???

[wide chasm]

You do need to give the JIT some time to do its stuff, though, otherwise you're not going to get any fps out of it.

[magic river]

7400 Go to 9400M is a big jump, that's probably why yours still more or less works

[golden gust]

OpenGL on macOS is dead

[magic river]

OpenGL on macOS is afaik a translation layer to Metal on new versions

Like, they don't actually have OpenGL drivers anymore

Maybe that's only on iOS though

I know GLES on iOS is just translated to Metal

[pastel reef]

Why does it say /EndEntire when I boot into Windows?

[golden gust]

2 second google points to grub

(and secure boot)

[left swift]

thanks googlecat

[left swift]

please this isn't leaf's discord

[quasi valley]

@static badge statement?

[left swift]

too busy being a gross furry to respond

[warm anchor]

@static badge someone posted your picture above

[static badge]

not furry

[left swift]

[red timber]

post seagull

[left swift]

what was the bird version of furry

leaf?

featheries

[glass crag]

The weekly Twitter summaries are really useful, thank u mystery Twitter person ❤️

[left swift]

no problem

[spare venture]

nomana have you contributed anything to the world

[left swift]

yes

my presence is a gift that keeps on giving bartyrealms

[worn ember]

https://imgur.com/cIz5Cg3

[red timber]

seagull a day keeps the rattew away

[stuck lynx]

Imo the papermc eula is the perfect example why you should always read the terms and conditions

[unkempt drift]

papermc has a eula?

[wraith trail]

open eula.txt

z made an addition

[unkempt drift]

to be clear, I always read the full eula before starting a server

just so everyone knows

[vestal jasper]

Why you should always like tacos*

FTFY

[left swift]

[tropic flame]

tacos? I'm sorry, guys, I forked paper just to fix that

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/555469074080202765/914262018536640542/unknown.png

it's bananas now

[unkempt drift]

its a HIPPA violation if you don't (also a Section 230 violation)

[tropic flame]

add an OSHA violation into that. it's literally not safe to run a server without reading the EULA

it might catch fire

[muted storm]

It's also a violation of ones own morals. If you just set eula=true without reading it and run your server, you will feel bad

[potent wedge]

Imagine if all EULA's had a "TL;DR" portion

Like instead of "our employees may..." 5 more paragraphs it's just "you might get banned"

Though I get why it doesn't exist

[rare python]

Why do I have to listen to like 20 different events to know about all the different ways a block could change.

Why can't I just listen for any block change.

[potent wedge]

Cuz java

[tropic flame]

just

@EventHandler
public void onEvent(Event event) {
}

[tropic flame]

nah but that could maybe be achievable by having all the specific block changing events extend a common one

but that's probably something they can't change at this point

[rare python]

My amazing solution:

[lean kiln]

https://github.com/jpenilla/squaremap/blob/master/paper/src/main/java/xyz/jpenilla/squaremap/paper/listener/MapUpdateListeners.java

[tropic flame]

... ackshuallee, https://papermc.io/javadocs/paper/1.18/org/bukkit/event/block/BlockEvent.html

this exists

[rare python]

You can't listen for BlockEvent, I tried.

[tropic flame]

oh

sad

[rare python]

Nice map I guess...

[tropic flame]

wait, what prevents you from doing so?

the constructor is public

[tropic flame]

huh...

[lean kiln]

I shared it because it's doing a very similar thing to what you are trying to do

[rare python]

I am litterally trying to make my own map

Because I want a map that is like actually live, like you break a block and it changes instantly on the map.

[teal raptor]

how do i give someone who isnt online on the server a group with luckperms / remove them from a group

[lean kiln]

luckperms discord is in #community-guilds

[potent wedge]

No paper-chan discord? 🤨

[ashen nacelle]

oof just realized what that song really means. Cherry Gum

||"You will hear me when I come."
"When I pop my cherry gum."
"A taste so sweet I can't get enough."||

https://tenor.com/view/waynes-world-no-gif-9916251

[tropic flame]

I'd like to believe you should be able to specify a UUID instead of a player name, in case the player has never joined the server (because as long as they've joined at least once, they get cached so you can manage their perms even if they're offline)

but yeah join luckperms discord for support

[teal raptor]

i just realised i dont need that information because the user im trying to give perms is on bedrock, so their uuid doesnt exist and i can only give them perms / whitelist them if they join

[tropic flame]

yeah, well, I guess you should have specified that because it indeed changes things :p

never used Geyser so I can't help you

[ashen nacelle]

Geyser assigns its own uuid's so GLWT

[manic berry]

@sharp sentinel

[sharp sentinel]

!kick @manic berry random ping

[thorny flicker]

:raised_hands: Kicked Aman12#0435 (random ping) [1 total infraction] -- Me4502#4502.

[ashen nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/diavolo-jojo-gif-25284241

[warm anchor]

understandable. His bio is also advertising trash free host service

[unreal pike]

hi

is there a reason portals on servers are linked

[warm anchor]

They are close (?)

[ashen nacelle]

yikes

[lilac moon]

yesterday i tried to give discourse a chance

their stack is a complete mess, so i had to scrap that idea

it's like they decided to use docker, but then do everything in the exact way that defeats the purpose of it

not even worth trying to make my own docker setup for it because i've been warned ruby on rails is a pain

[void void]

This may be offtopic, but is there a way to check how many mobs are in a single block area? I have like a chicken farm.

[warm anchor]

F3

[void void]

Which one there?

[unkempt drift]

you can only listen to events that have a HandlerList

or have a superclass that has a HandlerList

[teal raptor]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/764580/RealmCraft/

yo wanna play a round of Realm Craft

Steam

RealmCraft

★★★ Sandbox game. Craft & Build ★★★ RealmCraft is a sandbox construction game with 3D procedurally generated infinity world. Create and break apart various kinds of blocks, explore the environment, gather resources, craft weapons, build shelter and take part in combat with dangerous opponents. RPG elements; 3D Sandbox construction game; Build h...

▶ Play video

[limber knot]

(DiscordBot) RealmCraft - ★★★ Sandbox game. Craft & Build ★★★ RealmCraft is a sandbox construction... - Adventure, Simulation, Strategy - released 19 Feb, 2018

[teal raptor]

paper team, can we get a realmcraft server

[ashen nacelle]

seems like a minecraft knockoff

[teal raptor]

nah i dont think so

i think its a totally original game with totally original mechanics and totally original gameplay with totally original graphics

just look at these round heads

[proud lance]

RealmCraft is the original Sandbox Game.

no others

< 2018 no sandbox

[teal raptor]

lmao

what are some simple but good pvp gamemodes?

i love spleef if that counts and one of my friends loves to create and test random kits with me,

so ill add spleef and general 1v1 with&without kit duels and a free for all i guess

what are some more ideas?

[coarse lily]

Not having PvP in Minecraft is a pretty solid one.

[stuck lynx]

Yeah, Minecraft wasn't meant for pvp. If you want to play pvp, there are billions of better options

[teal raptor]

idc if it was made for pvp if its still fun ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vernal moth]

are there any linux desktops that look nice

no

[mossy vessel]

None that you find nice :P

[viral hornet]

@waxen panther xx

[stuck lynx]

What?

[worn ember]

Who

[wet storm]

The only two positive things about linux for me are that I can freely build paper without tiny remapper issue on my pc and bully people which don't use linux...

[vernal moth]

I can build paper on windows too

I just dont reobf

reobf is for weaklings anyways, go mojmap or go home!

[vagrant marlin]

i just distribute my paper mcm fork with unobfuscated mojang code

[wet storm]

I mean, finding a job / girlfriend, developing personality is better than using spigot maps

[vernal moth]

that statement is so confusing

is having a girlfriend an alternative to having a job?

[twin lagoon]

@viral hornet 🥺

[vagrant marlin]

its one or the other

[vernal moth]

if so, I want a refund

[vagrant marlin]

you cant have two

[viral hornet]

🥺

[worn ember]

You're either married to your job or to your wife

Or you're single like mini

[vagrant marlin]

and jobless

[wet storm]

And homeless💀

[ashen cliff]

Nah. Mini is married to a beer bottle.

[pastel dune]

Hi! I found /usr/bin/bsd-port/getty in processes. Does anyone know what it is?

[golden gust]

it's getty

[pastel dune]

oh

[ashen cliff]

[pastel dune]

i think this is backdoor

[twin lagoon]

do you use ssh keys for authentication

[pastel dune]

yes

[twin lagoon]

impressive

[golden gust]

what OS are you using?

[ashen cliff]

The correct question is, did you disable password auth?

[pastel dune]

Debian 10

[twin lagoon]

do you use redis

[golden gust]

lol

[pastel dune]

no

[pastel dune]

yees

[quasi valley]

did you give michael your password

[twin lagoon]

dunno how you got it then lmao

[golden gust]

I mean, the bsd-port folder looked semi sus, but, i mean, that folder shouldn't exist by default on debian, so, yea, probs malware

[twin lagoon]

i had to clean up a server once that got malware through an open redis instance

it was containerized aswell which made it more impressive

[golden gust]

I mean

there was a container breakout expoit in vmwares VFD module

(and a few other platforms too)

[pastel dune]

my hosting using kvm

[wet storm]

Now it feels like spring, I can touch grass instead of snow🥳

[charred sleet]

is that russia

[wet storm]

Yes

[golden gust]

I prefer grass when its burning

[charred sleet]

i should play geoguesser

[pastel dune]

it's been there since April 16th lol

April 16 my vm crashed

[wet storm]

Okay, now I am in ussr

[pastel dune]

lol

[twin lagoon]

well that's an issue

[ashen cliff]

As it should be.

[pastel dune]

backdoor does this

[ashen cliff]

Yeah, no sane person would ass port 57 for SSH.

[twin lagoon]

just format the thing

[pastel dune]

I downloading all my data to reset vm

[ashen cliff]

INB4 log4j and servers running as root.

[pastel dune]

log4j fixed

server running as not root

[lavish compass]

[red timber]

time for a spring cleanup

[pastel dune]

yes

reseting vm

[red timber]

turn it off, move data and wipe

[vernal moth]

mfw I just got the letter for mail voting and I dont know yet whom I should vote for, lol

cool there is a hiphop party called "the urban"

[sterile yoke]

[worn ember]

Vote for Eminem 2024

[stuck lynx]

Die PARTEI ofc

[mental meadow]

wahlomat helps 😄

[vernal moth]

I guess

man some of these are hard

[twin lagoon]

easy

simply don't vote

[mossy vessel]

Right, isn't it rigged anyway and the elite did already decide who wins

[vernal moth]

see, technically am part of the elite, lmao

man, some of the questions

"should the state lobby to remove sanctions against russia"

did I win?

https://i.imgur.com/q4m57db.png

[mental meadow]

looks similar to my results

[vernal moth]

dafuq 78% ödp, 77% dkp

https://i.imgur.com/3EAQhzQ.png

the bottom at least doesn't surprise me

volt being so low does surprise me

[mental meadow]

the more important question

do i?

[vernal moth]

can couch for the bottles

[mental meadow]

please dont sit on them

they should finally open a europe warehouse :c

[vernal moth]

thats extremely complicated and absolutely not worth it

maybe if they would open up creator warehouse for other creators, but right now they also produce some of the stuff locally

[mental meadow]

yes but 20$ shipping on 40$ is also not worth it

need to make like a group order with other european people or something

[vernal moth]

you cant just open a warehouse in another country

[mental meadow]

I know

but I also want a water bottle

you see the problem here? 😄

[wide chasm]

Surely there are water bottles that don't cost 30 dollars?

[vernal moth]

man, when did the SPD turn into such a joke party

their positions are so dum

https://i.imgur.com/9qLL6cs.png
https://i.imgur.com/TdBc0np.png
https://i.imgur.com/2ocK1pY.png

https://i.imgur.com/RkgsJBt.png

[mental meadow]

miniiiiii politics

[vernal moth]

hey you lucky I didn't look at the "reasoning" behind the AfD

[wide chasm]

Trying to stop Mini from politics in general is like trying to make 1.8 users update, it's just not gonna happen

[mental meadow]

thats why I bonk him

[wet storm]

Who said politics?

"can't go 1 day without paper core team bringing up politics" - JRoy

[vernal moth]

everything is about politics tho

[wet storm]

Wtf, I drunk a huge cup of cocoa and now I also wanna drink that huge cup of green tea

[vernal moth]

you can't isolate yourself from it

[wide chasm]

It seems to me that you can't help but bring it up in general

[vernal moth]

well, this place is where we get to talk about stuff and things

[wide chasm]

Yes, but not about politics

[vernal moth]

but everything is inherently political

[wide chasm]

There's a difference between something that could vaguely be related to politics and literally talking about a political election

[vernal moth]

like, I brought a lemonade, it was very sweet

now I can say that it was so sweet, because by law its required to have 7g of sugar in it

[mossy vessel]

Do you have nothing useful to do on such a sunny day? 😂

[vernal moth]

am working on hangar, weather isnt that nice here today

[wide chasm]

And by the rules, you can't discuss politics in general, if you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't talk in general at all

[worthy geode]

the statement about bike paths is so meaningless its almost funny

[vernal moth]

well, I stopped after aurora reminded me

[vernal moth]

spd in a nutshell

now ill stop but malfrador brought it up again 😄

[wet storm]

Imagine bringing up politics in paper dev💀 /s

[worthy geode]

I mean, they didn't even make any political statement with that xD

[tropic flame]

ngl I'd say you'd be breaking ToS by using GitHub gist as a CDN but you do you

[vernal moth]

Do you know how CDNs work?

What's your actual issue here?

[worthy geode]

why don't you upload it to a webserver or something?

[vernal moth]

Why don't you distribute the script along with your website?

They dont allow you to edit scripts?

That sounds like a really dum design

You can edit your GoDaddy site any time too?

You can't include random Javascript because of CORS

The browser literally tries to prevent you from loading any 3rd party JavaScript

You are actively trying to work against multiple browser security features

CDNs like that (not real CDNs like CloudFlare or akamai that intercept traffic) are a security nightmare

They just disable CORS, all their scripts to be embedded into any website

No, that's literally the default

Also why are you censoring the url

Why do I feel like you wanna do something shady and fail miserable?

Nothing, I just see red flags everywhere

Like, why are you appending the script via js instead of just adding it to your head as html?

That's not what I mean

Normal people just write html

<script src=link>

No because you still will run into CORS

But that's how sane people declare scripts

That's wrong

They literally give you access to the head in the settings

Head html and body end html

https://findhelp.wsb-estoregodaddy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360059681631-Header-HTML

That's not how cors works but sure

Cause that header is a client header, lol

As I said, your browser is blocking the request, as a security measure

In order to make cross origin requests, the server of the 3rd party resources need to set cors headers to allow embedding content into your site

[grim island]

for github gists try githack

[vernal moth]

Holy shit that's cursed

[warm anchor]

@twin lagoon

@lavish compass

[quasi valley]

@warm anchor

[warm anchor]

Good morning Kenny!

[quasi valley]

Good almost evening

[lavish compass]

@warm anchor

[mental meadow]

uwu thanks for the feedback!

[untold copper]

reee

4 days to go

[warm anchor]

Snoopa finally turn 13??

[simple karma]

does phoenix have a discord for his stuff?

[warm anchor]

Crazy enough he actually does

It’s linked in his spigot page iirc

[worn ember]

does it use irc bridge too?

[warm anchor]

Yes

[untold copper]

im turning 16 lol

[mossy vessel]

ToS

[warm anchor]

Alright Snoopa we gonna send you back to algebra class

[untold copper]

reee

[magic river]

https://twitter.com/web3isgreat

web3 is going just great (@web3isgreat)

only some of the many disasters happening in crypto, defi, NFTs, and other blockchain-based projects • created by @molly0xfff

Followers

57173

Tweets

796

Twitter

[left swift]

[ashen nacelle]

stefvanchie has no taste in sheet music.

[pastel pivot]

I just saw cat typing in #paper-github and thought: Wait that's illegal 😄

And now Mini 😄

[vernal moth]

Had to do it, lol

Gotta exert my unlimited power!

[ashen nacelle]

what really bites is when you are about done with an application and your higher ups decide to change the structure of the database breaking the application completely making you need to recode it from scratch

https://tenor.com/view/anger-rage-gif-5455153

[vernal moth]

Smh you aren't agile enough

[unkempt drift]

Well we have #paper-github message to make sure @quasi valley doesn’t forget force pushing to master

[quasi valley]

I would never lie, would I https://i.imgur.com/MnLVy5h.png

[left swift]

mini can you find the oldest message in the discord

or who was the person that made the discord? z?

[spare venture]

just look up z’s first message and scroll up

[left swift]

he isnt in discord anymore or doesnt have account/changed name so I cant search his tag

atleast on mobile maybe it's fine on pc

[void void]

#paper-help message

probably that one

apart from gh logs

[left swift]

292776609193263105

sheesh 292 number

in my server a message from 25th of April in 2019

571838312084537384

that messages ID 967499161681424394

crazy huh

anyone have an ID from a message in 2015

[charred sleet]

we about to get another digit soon

[left swift]

aug 2018 478597032005599263

went up alot in a year

2017 must be when discord got really popular huh?

[void void]

psst mana, first part of an id is a timestamp

[wide chasm]

That's because I joined Discord in 2017, so suddenly everyone wanted to join too /s

[left swift]

cant be a time stamp

show doc

[void void]

https://discord.com/developers/docs/reference#snowflakes

[left swift]

ah yes

tim642millisec(sno

idk why that makes a difference if its time stamp cuz its still an older time

which I'm just saying the difference in numbers between time

[wet storm]

should static methods be written after constructors? My friend tells me that static methods should be written before constructors, and I searched a bit and found this: https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/codeconventions-150003.pdf where they say that every method should go after anything in a class, but nothing about static methods...

[prime coral]

same thing

[wide chasm]

I always put them after constructors

[prime coral]

but before non-static methods

[wet storm]

same

[true canyon]

I hate every ordering so change it up too often.

[golden gust]

^^

[wide chasm]

But I'd argue there are scenarios where putting it above the constructor makes more sense, e.g. if you have a singleton with an empty constructor. You're probably not interested in the constructor when opening the file, so no point in putting it above the getInstance method for example.

[true canyon]

I think I'm currently doing static everything first.

[golden gust]

I often tend to keep static towards the top, but, idk where I put it in relation to the constructor

I'd actually need to look 😄

[true canyon]

Static field, static block, static methods, non static fields, constructor, methods.

[golden gust]

I wanna say that I often stick it above, ^

somethin close to that

[wide chasm]

My general goal for ordering stuff, is to put stuff you're most interested in at the top, so you don't have to scroll down to find it. Getters and setters can go at the bottom, no one is interested in those, whereas methods that actually do something interesting should be higher since you're probably more interested in those.

[wet storm]

I do: static fields -> instance fields -> constructors (public -> protected -> private) -> static methods (same as constructors, by accessibility) -> instance methods (same)

[true canyon]

Have your IDE track time spent looking for each method and auto reorder as a method becomes more interesting

[wide chasm]

That wouldn't even be that bad if it weren't for the fact that all my commits would then be filled with method reorderings 😄

I generally look at the complexity of the method - nothing formal, just eyeballing it - and putting the more complex stuff at the top since that's probably more interesting.

[true canyon]

What's git if not a bunch of useless changes tracked for no one to see.

[void void]

guys!

[wet storm]

then, prob I shouldn't yell at my friend about his order too much...

[void void]

i just realized that i missed Digger's birthday

I wasn't there for Digger's birthday!

oof

[warm anchor]

Remember it’s same day of hitlers birthday. It’s also 420!

[spare venture]

Digger

i have not seen him referred to as that

[warm anchor]

Search the keyword

[wet storm]

replace letter "D" in his nickname to... B, yeah, sure, B

[spare venture]

#paper-help message

[wet storm]

MiniBigger😅

[limber knot]

where velocity help

[unkempt drift]

#velocity-help , but idk if thats irc linked

[limber knot]

yea lemme check

[left swift]

I just realized I was talking in paper help

[limber knot]

velocity help is not taken

sooo let me register it to my account hehehehhee

[left swift]

ghost pinged u eternity @warm anchor

[worn ember]

Noob

[wet storm]

crong

[left swift]

https://tenor.com/view/block-blocked-anime-gif-13872321

[worn ember]

Stonks

[left swift]

do /modmail

[golden gust]

no

We know

[left swift]

no

[worn ember]

Haha

[left swift]

aurora got hacked?

[cedar spade]

help kennytv#9656 sent me a mean message in DMs

[quasi valley]

@cedar spade shut up

[warm anchor]

Help leaf sending me his fursona

[worn ember]

I hate it when he does that

[left swift]

@quasi valley weeb

[coarse lily]

@rose minnow Can you send another modmail with a fullscreenshot showing the username/etc of the sender and not cropped? Thanks.

[left swift]

imagine leaving DMs open

smh my head

[coarse lily]

Okay. In the future you probably want to take a better screenshot. The one you sent wasn't super helpful.

Also maybe use a less weird image sharing service in the future.

[worn ember]

It's called being a little bish

[coarse lily]

People tend to call it "hoisting"

And yeah they do it to get to the top of the list.

For some weird reason.

[worn ember]

Exposure

[coarse lily]

Doesn't work quite as well in here when there's a stack of roles on top of you and people aren't very likely to scroll down to the "online" section.

[worn ember]

But my name really is !!!!Yeet

[true canyon]

I'll yeet you, sir

[worn ember]

One cannot Yeet the yeeter

[true canyon]

New proposal to upset zoomers- replace all uses of "yet" with "yeet"

Okay.

[worn ember]

||ooga booga||

[wet storm]

Are there any modern paper backports to crazy versions like beta 1.7.3 or alpha 1.2.6?

[worthy geode]

that sounds insane

[worn ember]

Better get on it then

[warm anchor]

Low effort troll

[wet storm]

Hmod

And bukkit ports

About a1.2.6 bukkit port not sure, but 1.7.3 exist

[worn ember]

Make more that aren't controlled

But other than that no

Exit nodes are randomly selected though iirc

How would I know

Send a mail to the CIA maybe they'll tell you

... weird ass Americans smh

[true canyon]

5900 is my guess, then

[wet storm]

"How to understand what churchill says? (And other native speakers)". Fake, impossible, bowowåer

[twin lagoon]

@warm anchor

[true canyon]

@twin lagoon 🥺

[twin lagoon]

[coarse lily]

@twin lagoon

[twin lagoon]

[true canyon]

@coarse lily 🥺

[coarse lily]

@true canyon

[tropic flame]

there is Canyon, which has ported a few stuff from modern Spigot and Paper into craftbukkit for b1.7.3 iirc

[potent wedge]

I mean craftbukkit I'll give up, but I'm never gonna

Give you up,

Never gonna let you down

Never gonna runaround and, desert you

Never gonna make you cry

Never gonna say goodbyeeeee~

Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you

[unreal pike]

do you guys use [MM-DD-YYYY] [DD-MM-YYYY]

or even YYYY-MM-DD etc

[silver nexus]

DD-MM-YYYY since america

[unreal pike]

ic

was wondering whats the best for organization for a logging plugin

[silver nexus]

Well, actually I’m weird. I use the DD-MM-YYY purely to confuse people

MM-DD-YYYY is most common in America iirc

[unreal pike]

if i write it out i always do 13 January 2000 but in that form i do 1/13/2000

but in a chat log like below where there's alot of entries i wonder which number people would prefer to look at first

[01-02-2000 13:24] Steve: Hello
[01-02-2000 14:21] Steve: there
[01-02-2000 16:53] Steve: ok

[potent wedge]

Add all of them and just have MM-DD-YYYY as default

[tropic flame]

give me YYYY-MM-DD just as to not enter into confusion

[unreal pike]

yea ill go with that, found out about this thing called ISO 8601

[true canyon]

YYMDMDYY

Keeps them all guessing

[void void]

Hello World Paper

[stuck lynx]

[void void]

waaaa

who is you?

your pfp describes my reaction to your name

[coarse lily]

@sturdy grove We generally don't like people posting random jars here

No way to know if it's a safe jar, people might download and run it, etc etc

[sturdy grove]

thats the file i got from your web site

[coarse lily]

Cool.

[sturdy grove]

i cant use is how do i run it

[coarse lily]

You want #velocity-help if you're looking for help with velocity. You could try Googling a tutorial for setting it up, too.

[stuck lynx]

Type out my name. Do it.

(and do not dare to ping me)

[void void]

<＠!629326488721948715>

ez

[stuck lynx]

No,my nick

(@stuck lynx)

[void void]

why dont we just call you jeffrey?

[stuck lynx]

Do it

[void void]

jeff

ur name is jeff

[stuck lynx]

It cannot be that difficult to write
@stuck lynx