I thiiiink that was cos they kept advertising broadband in the area but it wasn't available yet, and so they gave her that as a concession before we got broadband a year or two later or something
#general
golden gust
vernal moth
I don't remember dealing with dialup
I think I wasn't allowed to use the internet at that age, just played games with my dad
I think we already had broadband tho too, like we moved when I was 5, I don't remember much before that, but at that house pretty sure we always had "broadband", this was 2002
magic river
I think we still had dialup when I got XP, I remember downloading it a couple months before it released
That classic "leaked" (I think it was an MSDN release) gold master enterprise edition and key
That was around the same time I was using free dialup ISPs in the US that were basically a custom dialer and web browser in one app that would show you ads on the side the whole time you were connected
I figured out how to get the phone numbers and auth details out of them so I could just use a Windows DUN connection, no ads
vernal moth
Wait the web had ads that early?
magic river
Although one of them would then disconnect you every 30 minutes if you did that so I always used download managers (or, you know, kazaa or direct connect or whatever) so I could resume downloads
Opera was a big deal back then because it had a popup blocker
Most ads then were popup ads or big gaudy images
golden gust
I mean, once shit started taking off people had to get cash from it somehow
magic river
Google was the one that showed you could make bank on simple text ads although they didn't stick with that for long after they took over...
golden gust
and, space which is basically always there is a bit of a steal especially as advertising was stupidly cheap back in those days
magic river
Oh, that reminds me, amusingly enough the reason Google was so plain and simple and their ads were too was because Larry and Sergey didn't know HTML
They learned enough to slap together their product (which, I remind you, is basically a giant HTML parser...) and make something functional
TIL PageRank was originally meant to be an algorithm to determine how useful a research paper is by looking at how often and in what manner it was cited in other papers
wide chasm
iirc because Google's web page was so simple, people that used Google initially would just wait and stare at their screen because they thought the page wasn't done loading yet.
topaz mortar
I think we already had broadband tho too, like we moved when I was 5, I don't re...
Do you remember that you used AOL trial CDs to get free internet minutes?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/87291/youve-got-mail-history-aols-free-trial-cds
That was probably my first internet contact.
My Windows history:
95, 98, (NT), 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10
Sad that I did not start with 3.1
golden gust
I skipped vista and was kinda phasing out away from windows at the time of 10, never used NT as that was really just a business thing (but, did toy with it in a few VMs years ago just cos)
magic river
Do you remember that you used AOL trial CDs to get free internet minutes?
https:...
I doubt a German would remember a dialup era American ISP π
golden gust
I mean, we had them over here
their CDs weren't as thrown around over here as much but I've come across a CD or two
Kinda weird that places like AOL are still around
magic river
Nothing on their wiki pages suggests they were an ISP anywhere but the US
Wouldn't be surprised if some of their floppies or CDs got over there though
golden gust
Yea, I don't remember them being big
Like, everybody I knew was with telewest back in those days, before they became virgin media
magic river
Huh, and all of their dialup connections went to Dulles, Virginia
Which probably made it very convenient for No Such Agency to look at
This shit just got a major rewrite in 2021 and is actively being developed, last update was on the 25th
It apparently still looks like that
That is 9.8.2 but version 11 (the rewrite) is supposed to keep mostly the same look and features
That's a Chrome skin π
void void
electroniccat, notice me
how do you have enough time to both be on discord and work on paper?
magic river
π
He's trying to usurp my grumpy old man role
Although iirc he does still do PR review
dapper pumice
cat once mentioned that he want to take a step away from discord to have more time π
void void
Amar a guy told me to start making plugins before properly learning java and now I'm spending far too much time on a simple problem
worn crest
More time for paper is good π support can do a lot of other ppl but not so a high level like cat
magic river
I dunno, if you just close out communication it's hard to keep motivated
dapper pumice
imagine... discord without cat.. Anarchy!
void void
i should reevaluate my decisions
magic river
On the other hand that communication can be very distracting
void void
imagine... discord without cat.. Anarchy!
dogs
void void
More time for paper is good π
support can do a lot of other ppl but not so a hi...
now i think i understand why he doesn't want to be pinged
the guy could probably kill for that
worn crest
I can totally understand. Pinging unnecessary from random ppl which have basic questions that stand in the docs can be annoying
void void
I can totally understand. Pinging unnecessary from random ppl which have basic q...
and he is way too busy with paper
worn crest
Paper > work
void void
properly doesn't even eat properly because he needs to work on paper
wonder how many minutes of sunlight he gets per week
i hope he doesn't ban me for my jokes
i should join the paper dev team one day
golden gust
sucky job market + imposter syndrome + self hatred basically go hand in hand
dapper pumice
cat lives
dapper pumice
aaah!
golden gust
duracell actually suck
void void
we could plug the cat into a socket
dapper pumice
lipo! everywhere!
void void
say "Ay" if you want to cat to be plugged into a socket
dapper pumice
we could plug the cat into a socket
you mean..because he has 9 lives?
void void
you mean..because he has 9 lives?
it runs on electricity so...
void void
overthrow the leaders
and then we become the new dev team
we take paper into our own hands
dapper pumice
the king is dead, hail to new king?
golden gust
I remember the days of starting to work on paper
it was fun, especially as it was a small project which allowed I with like, 2-3 years or so of experience with java a shot
Now, I hardly have time to code
worn crest
I remember the days of suffering in programming because I'm too dump for all and hate it
void void
I remember the days of starting to work on paper
i accidentally pinged this guy. Then I remembered that if i reply it automatically pings
but now i removed the ping
dapper pumice
ignore discord, code more π problem solved cat
golden gust
Like, these days I deal more with the politics and review of stuff and internal discussions rather than actually working on stuff
magic river
I joined the Bukkit project with approximately 0 Java experience π
void void
Like, these days I deal more with the politics and review of stuff and internal ...
hire me. I know how to make a chain of methods
golden gust
Like, it helps get stuff done, I think we do stuff better than if I wasn't here and such, but, most of my efforts these days go on internal politics and shit vs forefront "actually working on stuff"
hire
dapper pumice
payment with coffee
magic river
I only learned how to even compile it in July 2011, did some plugin dev for a few months, then after like one PR to the project I ended up as one of the core devs in I think March 2012
void void
I remember the days of suffering in programming because I'm too dump for all and...
If you think you were bad, I'm currently struggling to use the #lore() method cuz I don't know generics, nor how to use the List class
magic river
I learned how to compile it a day after I learned how to read and somewhat write it by decompiling the CraftBukkit jar to find and 'fix' a bug, had a fix but didn't know how to put it back in to a jar π
golden gust
lol
golden gust
I mean, am the type of person who goes to make a cup of tea
and then finishes makin it after having done 200 other things in the vacinity
void void
i should make some breakfast
golden gust
reading all the stuff you're expecting to read to be able to do stuff is horrible, like, I do much better pulling stuff apart to get in vs actually like, reading and doing it from the top
worn crest
I only learned how to even compile it in July 2011, did some plugin dev for a fe...
I watched some tutorials in 2017, nothing worked after a year so I quit and now I only do some basic things with GitHub like searching were a problem could be but fixing it is a mess... and I do Java with higher niveau in school next year could be fun
golden gust
I do wanna get more experience with node and shit given that that's where shit has generally moved
void void
I watched some tutorials in 2017, nothing worked after a year so I quit and now ...
german or dutch?
you said niveau
magic river
Dude when I get up to get something to drink in the middle of a work day I end up back at my desk maybe 30 minutes later after having taken the trash out, gone to the bathroom, got the robot vacuum started, fed the cat, etc
golden gust
I really wanna get into the habit of closing discord more often
magic river
It sucks sometimes
void void
actually now i have suspicions that electroniccat might be german
worn crest
Besides of that I code in notepad++ cause I don't wanna have trash data on my pc haha
worn crest
actually now i have suspicions that electroniccat might be german
No britisch I guess
magic river
But when I was on medication for ADHD instead I'd just never do any of those things at all
golden gust
am a brit who was basically raised by the internet
dapper pumice
I'm Ger, he isn't XD
void void
he did say he likes tea so...
vernal moth
It's also a German word
golden gust
I keep meaning to go to the doctors about it, but, it kinda puts a bolter on some of the stuff I wanna do in life, and, am not sure I wanna deal with that
void void
Isn't Niveau english? Xd
Where'd you get that preposterous idea from?
vernal moth
It's french originally I guess
void void
preposterous - big word
magic river
It sure does sound french π
vernal moth
he did say he likes tea so...
Hey I do like tee and I sure am not a Brit
void void
i need to go now. its time for torchun to eat breakfast
dapper pumice
it's like Divan in Russian.. origins also from French
magic river
Picking up Java was easy because I already knew a bunch of other languages at least a little, including C#
Java was just C# but uglier and with less features
worn crest
Where'd you get that preposterous idea from?
Idk could be English haha "level" is kinda simple and I match it rater with a game level than that
magic river
Using level for that kind of thing in school is more of a British thing I think
vernal moth
TIL storing a full Minecraft map on s3 costs you almost exactly a million USD per month
Do with that info whatever you like
B2 it would only be 3 million a year!
magic river
lol we're finally getting snow, in March
warm anchor
Could've talk to their sale rep for discount
magic river
1-3 inches tomorrow
Except it's supposed to be 44F tomorrow afternoon and 68F the next day so... goodbye snow
7C and 20C
magic river
Oh, I guess at this point tomorrow might be right now, its almost 4am
vernal moth
So 14 trillion chunks are 49 pb
golden gust
wheres jake when you need him
void void
my cereal says that it's supposed to be prepared with low-fat yoghurt
i used fat milk
but it's still delicious
for some reason it feels too sweet
idk if its cuz of the milk or the cereal
i want to eat my breakfast but it feels too sweet
paper 1.18.2 When is it going to be released?
proud lance
In the current year
twin lagoon
Next year
twin lagoon
Yes bro.
proud lance
I can't wait
proud lance
As an American that changes nothing
void void
As an American that changes nothing
gnarly brah
worst cereal
im gonna get diabetes from this thing
it is certainly meant more as a treat than a breakfast
and whats worse is that i bought one of the big boxes so i could save some money
patent maple
did you ban russian flag?
topaz mortar
I doubt a German would remember a dialup era American ISP π
Had an AOL email address as well. We we're AOL customers before switching to Unitymedia in 2008/2009.
magic river
Weird, I guess the wiki page for them is just awful
It only mentions they even offered broadband in a statement about them raising dialup prices to the same as broadband to try to get people to switch and only mentions anything outside the US in a statement about selling AOL UK
dapper pumice
Aol was also a pretty huge isp in Germany, besides telekom
proud lance
Excuse me it's America Online not Germany Online
magic river
I suppose that's why they just went by AOL over there π
magic river
US company was called America OnLine until like 2000 when they merged with Time Warner even though it was always called AOL
vernal moth
mfw even childs don't wanna be around you
ashen cliff
Keep it that way.
ashen cliff
Look. I just don't want children screaming around my house.
worn ember
thats what duct tape is for
golden gust
yes
little frost
paf the gambling place?
golden gust
yes
marble lark
ah ok
vernal moth
Can I ban?
marble lark
paper website it should be there
vernal moth
I wanna ban
wide chasm
See status, yes ban
vernal moth
!ban 647463149372440630 Putin isn't welcome here
thorny flickerBOT
:raised_hands: Banned β ΠΡΡΠΈΠ½ β#7634 (Putin isn't welcome here) [1 total infraction] -- MiniDigger#3086.
marble lark
...nevermind i didn't read the profile status
vernal moth
Oh I would have banned for the pic alone but one click on the status was enough
Clearly a troll
marble lark
whatever probably a troll anyways
yeah
i think my mind blanked out the pfp while i was reading their post
marble lark
Proxi isn't the only one who works there that you know btw ^^
come to think of it i was way more surprised to see her on the jdk's mailing list, not the email address itself
warm anchor
smh mini leaking
vernal moth
I didn't leak anything
Smh
Man, I typed out a reply that would def not be appreciated here, lmao
Cat would enjoy it, lol
little frost
π€
marble lark
dafuq did i miss
solid pine
This isn't really a support question so I'll ask here instead. Is there a comparison between the performance of Spigot VS PaperMC somewhere someone has made?
foggy silo
I mean, tbh itβs pretty easy to test yourself because there is QUITE a difference.
warm anchor
It was a joke 
golden gust
I mean, basically, nothing done by anybody who knows what they're doing
benchmarking logic which is heavily Math.random() would be stupid
warm anchor
I mean the difference is pretty noticeable but no one is gonna bother to do a proper benchmark style report because it cannot be done
solid pine
It doesn't have to be precise, though. Just an average from one test comparing the two would do. And I'd rather not do it myself since I'm quite busy at the moment and don't really think it's worth doing a performance test myself just for my own curiosity
golden gust
and then spigot basically stops ticking entities and such if they take too long to pretend that "all is fine"
foggy silo
If you want you can look at certain parts, like the lighting engine, which is totally rewritten in Paper (starlight)
warm anchor
If it doesnβt tick it doesnβt lag 
foggy silo
There are benchmarks on that on the official starlight repo (iirc)
solid pine
I'm fully aware that Paper is much, much faster, at least in my experience. I was just looking for an "easy answer" but it sounds like it's a lot more complicated than that, which I should have expected tbh
vernal moth
Putting numbers to this is impossible, but like, there's a reason 85% of the community uses paper
And there is no reason to use spigot
warm anchor
69% of numbers are made up @solid pine 
vernal moth
solid pine
Spigot updates first though, right? So for cutting edge purposes I suppose Spigot has it's uses.
vernal moth
Just so the people see that my numbers aren't made up, lol
Paper updated within hours
We just think it's irresponsible to release builds, for people who want to test they can build the branch, since all work is open, always
golden gust
well, we base off spigot, so, given that they don't release anything until their ready, we're kinda stuck in the mud on that front
but, we do plan to break away from them
solid pine
Paper updated within hours
Oh I didn't know that, so Paper works on 1.18.2 already?
golden gust
Yes
There was like one "fun" issue which needs to be looked into before we're ready to release afaik
solid pine
Yes
Color me impressed, then. Speaking of that, where is the 1.18.2 branch located? I searched for it today but couldn't find it.
twin lagoon
kenny moment
solid pine
Thanks, and sorry
golden gust
Apparently there is an issue with saving
but, I think I know the general issue
and, I don't think it's a "big" issue
But, god knows
ashen cliff
So, why haven't you fixed it yet Cat?
golden gust
cos my brain is poop and the area where the issue falls into is a nightmare of overengineering and stupid decisions
ashen cliff
Rework all of it.
little frost
https://minidigger.github.io/paperstats/#1.18.1
ashen cliff
Make it unmergable and un maintainable.
ashen cliff
1082 too many.
marble lark
Rework all of it.
the "refactor entire codebase to change one thing" issue we all face
ashen cliff
Look. It's worth it.
marble lark
not when you're using a language as verbose as Java
which reminds me @Mari how'd you get on the amber mailing lists? Been trying to join it for quite a while but it doesn't seem to be sending me any verifications
wait
what
what happened to Proxi
golden gust
she left the MC community
worn ember
plucky sparrow
what happened to Proxi
Sheβs in simples discord
little frost
i thought you already got bedrock for free
little frost
because one time i just played bedrock with a third-party client and it just let me
oh ok
worn ember
dont own a console or whatever though so dont really care
rare python
Bugrock edition is inferior
worn ember
[Essentials] Permissions lag notice with (LuckPermsHandler). Response took 135,205400ms. Summary: Getting group for DarkEyeDragon essentials on drugs
oh i thought it meant 135205400ms lul
but yeah that wouldnt make sense
rare python
oh i thought it meant 135205400ms lul
37 hours π
ashen cliff
Fastest server in all of Balkan.
minor otter
Do anyone know if I can use this to get ethernet? It currently donβt work and my gf mad there is a cable across our apartment.
minor otter
I tested it and it did not work. Do I need to do something special with my router to make it work? Sorry if Im dumb
little frost
might not be connected behind the wall, you'd need like an electrician or something for that
vernal moth
Try finding the other end? Lol
Don't you have a utility cabinet or something where that line could end?
ashen cliff
That better not be a powerline adapter.
tropic flame
krusic is demanding Google not to give him beta stuff because he is a sigma male
π
ashen cliff
Fact.
ashen cliff
https://posili.me/i/mrSLvTci-2022-03-03_16-07-53.png
Tho. Someone better explain this BS.
Things that are stored: Kills, deaths, loses, wins...
AND THEN THEY HAVE THE AUDACITY to store KD an WL in the DB, despite being able to calculate it...
muted storm
but now they can query for one column instead of two 
ashen cliff
It's not like they don't query everything when you login. 
safe kraken
I have a weird question for the 18.2 update is anyone resetting their worlds just to make life easier? Suggestions
safe kraken
this is what my question is?
neon bramble
it should perform the thing automatically right?
vernal moth
You save a few CPU cycles on DFU I guess
neon bramble
not sure whether there's even anything to migrate
safe kraken
Okay thank you that answered my question I was just trying to see if I should or not
neon bramble
I would make a backup just to be sure tho
lavish compass
All my homies love DFU /s
neon bramble
All my homies love DFU /s
This is kinda awkward, what is it?
ashen cliff
DataFixerUpper.
simple karma
databreakerdowner
ashen cliff
Exactly.
neon bramble
If mojang provides official mappings, why don't they make it open source at this point?
neon bramble
If mojang provides official mappings, why don't they make it open source at this...
(I do not really know much how this works, so sorry if this is a horrible question)
I mean Minecraft Server
ashen cliff
Legal BS.
neon bramble
hm?
simple karma
ask nanosoft
ashen cliff
That's the simplest answer.
void void
If mojang provides official mappings, why don't they make it open source at this...
parameters and local variables are not mapped
neon bramble
I would understand why they obfuscate the end product
It may theoretically improve performance
ashen cliff
Yeah, no.
simple karma
na
neon bramble
ask nanosoft
π
simple karma
it might make size smaller tho
ashen cliff
Not for most people.
simple karma
or as my IT teacher reffers to - micrusoft
ashen cliff
lililililililililililililililililililililililil.ililililililililili.ililili.a()
simple karma
i love his quote
neon bramble
lililililililililililililililililililililililil.ililililililililili.ililili.a()
...
Oh I hate this so much
simple karma
"micrusoft teams is the best and safest app for teams and better optimized than discord because it was made by experienced programmers from micrusoft"
worn ember
!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i.b()
neon bramble
"micrusoft teams is the best and safest app for teams and better optimized than ...
was this said with sarcastic voice?
neon bramble
Some teachers would be able to say this unironically
simple karma
he made like fake conference screenshot but replaced all faces with memes, like Johny S.
thats called dedication
tropic flame
"micrusoft teams is the best and safest app for teams and better optimized than ...
unironically it's more optimized, though, as I can turn on my camera and screenshare without problems in this 2004 dinosaur of mine while discord crashes once i try
neon bramble
I wish I had same teacher
tropic flame
so they ain't wrong on that regard
neon bramble
unironically it's more optimized, though, as I can turn on my camera and screens...
Oh you haven't tried discord on linux then, it progressively gets slower and slower, then reloads and repeats the process
simple karma
unironically it's more optimized, though, as I can turn on my camera and screens...
people in conference see it as minecraft 16x16 picture
its just you that see your camera in high quality
magic river
Imagine, if you will, that you rush to finish a feature request that already came in late for the release cycle. This feature basically boils down to deleing a record but there is a bit more to it and we had to build a UI for it in the iPad too. Then, the day before release they decide they want it to only delete 7 days after someone pushes the button so that the iPad can have its UI changed to not ask for confirmation since someone can just push the button again to undelete it. Oh, and this needs to be in the release still.
I had to be pretty sure in my response, luckily our meeting was delayed to tomorrow so I wouldn't told about this over voice
rare python
1) lawyers
?
simple karma
2) open source is ass
π¦
magic river
I somewhat politely told them no and that they were an asshole for even asking
golden gust
Mojang wants to retain their IP, that includes stuff like their code, etc, etc
left swift
electron minecraft launchr
golden gust
open sourcing that is just handing over a primary asset to your competaters
as for open source, it's overrated
read up on mythical man month
magic river
The server is the valuable thing for Minecraft, you can replace the client as a one man project in not too much time
golden gust
people often think that open sourcing an app, especially one which is old af, magically fixes stuff
Like, all you do is introduce more toes to step on
simple karma
electron minecraft launchr
i wish there was electron with gecko
golden gust
you get into the point where you have to consider "am I gonna fuck over 1/2 the PR queue if I do this",etc
then you end up introducing more work as now you've gotta have people to work on the queue, which detracts from the stuff which actually pulls in cash
etc, etc
magic river
I think it took Thinkofname like 6 months? And that included learning rendering techniques and such too, they weren't familiar with all the stuff they needed to do
golden gust
my mate had a barebones client working in a few weeks
Didn't do too much, rendered a world and that was most of it
magic river
Yeah but steven wasn't just a world viewer
golden gust
The client is easy as it's basically kinda dumb, ofc, if you wanna go full featured, as said, probs a few dozen months of work
the server? lol
magic river
It supports 1.7.10-1.17.1
neon bramble
I mean, even if they would've open sourced it
A read-only repo would be best imo
so you will need to maintain your fork
magic river
Actually I'm not sure if he ever implemented inventories
neon bramble
It's still pretty impressive
golden gust
I mean, they have stuff which they don't wanna share
magic river
I thought that was in there so maybe the screenshots just have UI turned off to look pretty
golden gust
Not to mention that it really wouldn't change too much outside of lowering the bar a little
neon bramble
I mean, they have stuff which they don't wanna share
I understand that, I thought that the mappings included fields too
golden gust
it does
neon bramble
wait wtf
golden gust
class names and fields
golden gust
doesn't include method params/lvars as proguard doesn't support that
magic river
The mappings don't include parameter names or local variable names
neon bramble
I see I see
neon bramble
Not to mention that it really wouldn't change too much outside of lowering the b...
Would make modding easier tho
magic river
Those are usually not hard to guess when you have everything else although that assume the code is sanely designed π
golden gust
Like, if you're not using a mod loader you're generally being stupid
magic river
Forge tooling adds those names and adds javadoc to things
neon bramble
Like, have you seen the communities tooling?
I don't really move outside of my comfort zone (bukkit, no nms) often, so no.
golden gust
and, things like forge already have a project which has decomp fixes, etc
magic river
MC doesn't even have javadoc for those things in their actual source code π
golden gust
Like, people think that open sourcing the server would magically improve stuff
But, I mean, the modding ecosystem is practically there without mojangs hand
magic river
Unless they made it a community project it wouldn't change anything, really
simple karma
bro π dudes hacked nvidia and told them to open source their drivers
neon bramble
yup
magic river
Like, unless I can get async chunk loading PR'ed to the official server source there is no benefit to having source code vs quilt and a patch file
neon bramble
they need to decide tommorow
magic river
nvidia isn't open sourcing shit
neon bramble
true
even if they leak that stuff
noone can really make it
and considering amd reported guy from intel that wanted to leak them secret stuff
magic river
Those people hacked nvidia for ransom, nvidia decided they could afford to deal with the fallout so told the hackers to fuck off, the hackers are pretending they've got a noble cause as they make good on their threats bit by bit hoping nvidia will cave
neon bramble
amd won't use it either
simple karma
nvidia isn't open sourcing shit
then nvidia must prepare for data leaks π
neon bramble
Those people hacked nvidia for ransom, nvidia decided they could afford to deal ...
yh those hackers are assholes
but nvidia is really asshole too
simple karma
remember what linus said
magic river
nvidia is generally the biggest asshole in the room, sure
They're the reason everyone hated Vista too π
simple karma
nvidia, god bless you π
neon bramble
nvidia driver support for linux 
rare python
What support?
neon bramble
more like
nvidia driver shitting on linux
or breaking
destroying
or all of them
half escarp
What is the best time for new plugins to be released lol
magic river
3am
magic river
Oh, I thought we were joking
Realistically the answer is "right after a major API change so you can be the only working plugin that does X"
Otherwise it doesn't matter
spare venture
people do look at the recently updated list in spigot
peak USA time is always around 6-7 PM EST
lilac moon
yh those hackers are assholes
They couldn't cope with Linux screentearing
neon bramble
I wish it was only screentearing
I usually update my packages when I start my pc
and everytime i update even something remotely related to nvidia drivers
I cannot start a game until next reboot
little frost
you have to reboot after, that's just how it works
neon bramble
That's how it exactly shouldn't work on Linux
little frost
that's exactly how it does work
neon bramble
it does
golden gust
I mean, depends on much stuff
golden gust
firefox for example can shit the bed if you update the app while it's running
they even made it tell you off
golden gust
un/loading kernel modules at runtime can be a PITA
little frost
good luck updating anything after updating the kernel and not rebooting
golden gust
I'd imagine that they just didn't care enough to wanna deal with the whole shebang on linux
golden gust
even on windows they still recommend that you reboot, just, sometimes you can get away with it
neon bramble
So my next GPU won't be Nvidia β’οΈ
neon bramble
even on windows they still recommend that you reboot, just, sometimes you can ge...
It worked for me every time
magic river
You can't reload the kernel module that is driving your display, iirc
You'd have to first close everything using it
neon bramble
idk, what I've heard amd drivers manage this
or manage to update without breaking your session
magic river
AMD drivers don't change their userspace ABI every update
neon bramble
and that's ok
magic river
They aren't allowed to, Linus would reject the patches
half escarp
Realistically the answer is "right after a major API change so you can be the on...
my plugin is completely version-independant lol it doesn't use much of the api
only uses it for like all online players or get offline player etc
lilac moon
I cannot start a game until next reboot
Oh yeah on arch sometimes the nvidia driver breaks for me until reboot too. But only sometimes
magic river
I don't think AMD even makes a separate kernel driver anymore
lilac moon
Can't open a terminal because kitty uses opengl!
neon bramble
Oh yeah on arch sometimes the nvidia driver breaks for me until reboot too. But ...
I use Arch (Manjaro) too, and it breaks every time
magic river
I think they do ship one as a DKMS thing so they can backport stuff to old kernels, for their "pro" drivers
lilac moon
It seems to work fine on other distros
neon bramble
I don't think AMD even makes a separate kernel driver anymore
iirc it is merged in linux
magic river
But even their closed source userspace stuff just uses the open source kernel driver
lilac moon
I think they do ship one as a DKMS thing so they can backport stuff to old kerne...
I use dkms nvidia
neon bramble
Can't open a terminal because kitty uses opengl!
thank god I use konsole
lilac moon
thank god I use konsole
I think it's also GPU accelerated but maybe not by default
magic river
DKMS has nothing to do with whether you can reload the module π
neon bramble
I think it's also GPU accelerated but maybe not by default
Do you need gpu accelerated terminal?
magic river
GPU accelerated text rendering if you don't have a hidpi screen is a bad idea
neon bramble
idk I use most of the apps available in the KDE toolset
magic river
Efficiently rendering on a GPU basically requires no subpixel antialiasing (aka no cleartype)
lilac moon
st is AFAIK the fastest and most responsive terminal though. Just it's so barebones because those suckless guys suck
neon bramble
With KDE it is usually hit or miss, some of their apps are great and some are garbage
lilac moon
I have considered going to gnome
golden gust
gnome sucks
lilac moon
Right now I'm using a custom build of dwm-flexipatch
golden gust
KDE sucks
golden gust
gnome 2 masterrace
plucky sparrow
You suck
neon bramble
golden gust
gnome 2 was the peak of desktop linux
neon bramble
idk
magic river
GNOME 2 was kind of trash
lilac moon
Believe it or not DWM has given me the least issues from all the DEs I tried
neon bramble
KDE is best if you have HW for it imo
golden gust
YOU SHUT YOUR HOE MOUTH
magic river
RedHat, Novell, and SuSE heavily modified it
neon bramble
Believe it or not DWM has given me the least issues from all the DEs I tried
isn't DWM only a WM and not DE?
magic river
And Ubuntu half replaced it with Unity and their own "system" apps
neon bramble
SUSe 
lilac moon
Idk if this is still a problem but back when I used KDE shift-2 and shift-6 owuldnt be passed to programs so I couldn't go to certain slots while sneaking
lilac moon
isn't DWM only a WM and not DE?
Yes
neon bramble
Idk if this is still a problem but back when I used KDE shift-2 and shift-6 owul...
not sure
lilac moon
Idk if this is still a problem but back when I used KDE shift-2 and shift-6 owul...
And I did not see any keybinds going to it
neon bramble
I use scroll wheel
lilac moon
Nice
golden gust
tiling window manager are interesting
neon bramble
they are
golden gust
Just, I don't use linux enough to deal with it
neon bramble
I am happy with kwin
lilac moon
It makes it a lot easier to get full use out of a big minitor
neon bramble
I have 2x 16:9 so I am fine
golden gust
I mean, I just found that I rarely used linux enough to remember all the stupid key combos, etc
neon bramble
You use dualboot?
I switched to only linux in December
And I've never been happier
neon bramble
I switched away from linux years ago
to what?
golden gust
macOS
jolly isle
rip farther view distance, thanks paper team β€οΈ
neon bramble
mhmmhmm
I can't really afford the apple products
or to be more specific
I can
I just choose not to, because I can get way better performance for the same price
golden gust
I used to rat on apple but, I mean, their OS is β€οΈ
golden gust
their hardware is slightly overpriced and shit, but, for all in all, it's a pretty damned nice OS
native wolf
Apple hardware is kinda trash, but macOS is miles ahead of Windows tbh
golden gust
especially as I got too old to deal with linux and its issues daily
neon bramble
Linux with KDE is the best compromise between macos and windows for me
native wolf
And that's coming from a guy that loves to shit on Apple daily
magic river
For laptops unless you were buying ones that didn't solder in the RAM and SSD you haven't really been able to get something better for less (or not that much less) for a while
plucky sparrow
howβs the hardware trash π
magic river
Although it bounced back and forth
neon bramble
especially as I got too old to deal with linux and its issues daily
I only sometimes need to deal with nvidia drivers, that's it, linux has gone a long way these few years
neon bramble
howβs the hardware trash π
the ratio hardware/price is trash
magic river
With the M1 versions you literally can't get a laptop better, no matter how much money you want to spend
plucky sparrow
the ratio hardware/price is trash
Thatβs not true at all
golden gust
I used to have to deal with a large range of stuff
plucky sparrow
Take the M1 MBA for example
neon bramble
I used to have to deal with a large range of stuff
for example?
golden gust
maybe I could get away with linux these days, I just really can't be assed to
plucky sparrow
Itβs insanely good for the price
neon bramble
Take the M1 MBA for example
how much is it?
golden gust
well, back then there was stuff like MS office
plucky sparrow
About 900$/1000$
neon bramble
native wolf
I only sometimes need to deal with nvidia drivers, that's it, linux has gone a l...
true, I use Nvidia + Linux and i haven't encountered ANY issues in the last 2 years or so
magic river
Like, I went with my XPS 13 instead of a 2020 13" MBP because the MBP was $1000 more but that's only because I could put a different SSD in the XPS
golden gust
random other proprietry apps, etc
magic river
If I tried to get the spec I actually wanted from both the MBP was only like $300 more iirc
neon bramble
well, back then there was stuff like MS office
Well, I never tried MS office on linux, because I realize it is a lost fight, just use google docs
golden gust
wasn't an option
neon bramble
Fortunately, I do not work at all, which would require me to use unrunnable software
And school is the same
golden gust
google docs back then was somewhat bleh still
neon bramble
Yeah
magic river
Now with the M1 and M1P/M1X versions they still overcharge for RAM and storage (like everyone else...) but they also sell the fastest and most power efficient laptops you can buy so...
neon bramble
In the quarantine times, it has gone a long way
neon bramble
Now with the M1 and M1P/M1X versions they still overcharge for RAM and storage (...
Well that's called the power of ARM
golden gust
libreoffice would literally mangle documents to all shit when passed over to office, etc
neon bramble
Yeah
magic river
No, ARM has almost nothing to do with it
neon bramble
I created a single slideshow in libreoffice
golden gust
apple like every company have a premium on their stuff
magic river
They could have made something about as good that was x86, if Intel and AMD would let them
golden gust
apples premium has often been much more than others
neon bramble
and it completely fucked up with the 2009 powerpoint we have at school
since then I am only using the g suite
magic river
They have a completely custom CPU design, it just speaks ARM at the top level
magic river
And it even speaks a custom version of ARM that has support for an x86 feature to accelerate their emulation for old apps
golden gust
Well, hey
I heard intel was gonna deliver on their power/thermal ratings
one day
runs
magic river
Alder Lake is faster and/or more efficient than AMD in the laptop world
neon bramble
Alder Lake is faster and/or more efficient than AMD in the laptop world
lemme link this vid
warm anchor
I am very hyped for the new amd cpus
Here is hope you can get one
magic river
AMD wins at the low end though, once you allow them both to use enough wattage to get anywhere close to their advertised performance numbers Intel wins on perf and perf/W though
neon bramble
Here is hope you can get one
I've had no issue with getting cpus, only gpus were a pain
They were available here pretty much all the time and not really with inflated price
but I've waited a year for a gpu
ashen cliff
Yeah, we didn't have issues with CPU supply in the EU.
neon bramble
yup
magic river
Yeah that's actually the video I was thinking of, pretty sure
neon bramble
r9 5900x for 600β¬ go brrrrr
magic river
Where they show Intel wins except at the lower wattage levels
neon bramble
Yeah that's actually the video I was thinking of, pretty sure
The thing is, it tooks intel a year to catch up
And the performance is still meh
golden gust
and only took AMD many years to catch up kek
magic river
Ryzen is on what is supposed to be a better node too
neon bramble
like when Intel was in leadership, there were pretty small improvements over generations
Now it is like 30% per core for generation?
magic river
Most of that Intel stalling everyone points to was just 10nm failure
neon bramble
And not even mentioning the core count increasing pretty fast
magic river
Before that they were doing 10-15% a year improvements
lilac moon
All I know.about amd is my friends complaining about stability and bugs
neon bramble
Before that they were doing 10-15% a year improvements
that's not much compared to the current situation
ashen cliff
Just make sure to exclude Broadwell from the charts.
magic river
They spent like 6 years stuck on 14nm selling small variants of Skylake
magic river
No
neon bramble
that's why I hope this situation isn't going to end
magic river
The reason was their 10nm node was a failure
ashen cliff
Hey, remember the flagship i7 5775C?
neon bramble
magic river
It took way too long and underperformed. They wanted to make faster and more efficient things, they would have had to change their entire business model and become just another TSMC customer to do so
Except TSMC doesn't have room for them
neon bramble
on a completely side note
do you think that the chip foundries in taiwan have something like self destruct button in case china invades them?
golden gust
don't need a self destruct button
magic river
I think they've hinted they do in fact have something like that and Taiwan's military has some ordinance pointed at them
neon bramble
?
golden gust
just walk in with a pillow full of feathers and rip it open
neon bramble
it would be great if TMSC were to open some foundries in europe
having it all on taiwan just seems like a very bad idea to me
ashen cliff
Nope. Stay TF away from our water.
neon bramble
Why?
magic river
btw if Intel did become a TSMC customer TSMC would have to drop like half their existing customers to fit them in
neon bramble
yup
magic river
So yeah, Intel spent years stuck with a broken node
They did finally backport some of their 10nm designs to 14nm, I think one of them even got released
It was an impressive performance boost but the power usage was awful
Rocket Lake, I think
ashen cliff
They did finally backport some of their 10nm designs to 14nm, I think one of the...
They did that even before for other stuff.
They even backported chipsets.
magic river
With Alder Lake Intel has retaken the efficiency crown from AMD at the idle/low usage level and at the full blast level
neon bramble
well I think that is going to change very soon
magic river
AMD only wins if you heavily limit maximum power usage and need full performance
neon bramble
isn't that really the case with ntbs?
magic river
Non-tariff barriers to trade?
ashen cliff
AMD only wins if you heavily limit maximum power usage and need full performance
Not in the server space.
neon bramble
XE
N
magic river
Well, sure, in the server space you have a ton of cores all operating in that in between range where AMD performs better
ashen cliff
It's close tho.
magic river
Alder Lake lets Intel win at the low end due to the little/efficiency cores and they win in perf/W (and raw performance) against AMD on the high end of the frequency curve with their big/performance cores but in a server you have a bunch of the performance cores but all of them are heavily throttled
magic river
I dunno, EPYC's have gotten pretty spendy afaik
They probably still win but I don't think it's as big of a gap as the first EPYC
ashen cliff
Price is about the same, but you get way more PCIe and memory support.
But you give up on Pmem.
neon bramble
Hey cat, do you remember how we talked about the data sync issue of mine?
left swift
no
neon bramble
I was talking to cat, I would've pinged him if I could π
pastel reef
Hey, remember the flagship i7 5775C?
<:kekwhyper:674093681904713729>
Is that a processor?
Sounds slow
rare python
So server I help run is working on a server resource pack and they wanted to add some optifine specific stuff and I told them no.
Anyway that triggered a few people.
ashen cliff
You forgot: used to
rare python
Lol
My response was quite simple:
I also said this after someone complained about connected textures
left swift
ur not allowed to tell minecraft server owners no
rare python
There is not really a singular owner
left swift
I didnt say nothing about 1 owner
rare python
what % of users do you think use optifine?
all I know is that it should be 0. Β―_(γ)_/Β―
spare venture
rightβ¦
left swift
if people dont use optifine how can they see my cool cape
spare venture
i wouldnβt use optifine specific features because then you have to tell people to use optifine lol
not because of some weird vendetta against optifine
rare python
There is not really a singular owner
The server operates with 4 "directors" who run the server, I am one of them.
left swift
servers without a sole leadership crumble
spare venture
what is the average age of these directors and did yβall sign a contract
rugged minnow
Question, I cant remember if I asked this before, but should I go with EPYC or Xeon CPU for a papermc server. It will have containers with bungeecord and papermc. It will have 50k+ people on it.
left swift
wat
twin lagoon
you're not getting 50k+ people
spare venture
depends on the xeon
twin lagoon
and also, be more specific than xeon and epyc
rugged minnow
It's a plan
spare venture
i plan for 1 million ccu
left swift
I plan for chad
twin lagoon
that does matter
spare venture
brother
twin lagoon
brother indeed
rugged minnow
Would more cores be better for paper?
twin lagoon
no
rugged minnow
Like 32?
twin lagoon
provide more specifics on the cpu
spare venture
Question, I cant remember if I asked this before, but should I go with EPYC or X...
this should be pinned
rugged minnow
O
rare python
spare venture
i hate to break it to you but if you know nothing about this, 50k ccu is ambitious
left swift
that's like saying you drive a ford
rugged minnow
Ik, but be prepared
twin lagoon
Guys Toyota or Ford
rare python
I mean maybe you would want epyc or xeon if your running like dozens of small minigame servers, but thats about it.
twin lagoon
that still does not mean anything
rugged minnow
Yes, as well ad lobbies
twin lagoon
twin lagoon
provide more specifics on what cpus you'd be looking at
epyc is just a brandname
so is xeon
twin lagoon
if you have no budget you don't need to prepare for 50k ccu either
rare python
50k players aint gonna happen, and would cost alot to run, you would probably need multiple servers to do it.
rugged minnow
I mean if I have unique minigames as well as advertise, it would take a LONG time
twin lagoon
it took hypixel 8 years to get to like 80k players
rugged minnow
Ok?
rugged minnow
That's the goal
south matrix
so why pay the full price for it now
rare python
Just buy what you need for now, scale up later.
rugged minnow
Thsts what I need gonna type lol. I'm not making it clear. Sorry
rugged minnow
Basically I will scale up, but what should I go for, more cores, higher frequency ram?
In the future
ashen cliff
Profile to see your needs.
twin lagoon
^
void void
kezz is epic
twin lagoon
kezz is epic
void void
TRUE
untold meadow
wtf
twin lagoon
@untold meadow 
void void
epicestestkezzest
untold meadow
the MOST epic
void void
epikezzt
untold meadow
em-ily
left swift
untold meadow
flustered moment
spare venture
md5βs burner account
foggy silo
Welcome to the Paper (household), we have spotted leaf's sink, oven, and sometimes a toaster in the waiting room
limber knotBOT
eww, why does the forum not respect dark mode?
left swift
flashbang out
worn crest
but yeah respecting system preferences would be nice
I also said that as it released haha makes my eyes blind
left swift
md5βs burner account
also heard papermc was working with electron to make a new launcher to give customizable capes to sponsors in the discord. is they considered plan for up? thanks
lean kiln
eww, why does the forum not respect dark mode?
respecting system dark mode is a 300$ xenforo addon 
untold meadow
not like paper doesn't have the money 
worn crest
#paper-contrib oh man Owen π₯² could've make something else haha
worn ember
respecting system dark mode is a 300$ xenforo addon <a:pepegaroll:71388702078677...
ok? so buy it 
money well spent /s
lean kiln
I'll buy ur mom
worn ember
My mom is priceless, you cant afford her
little frost
respecting system dark mode is a 300$ xenforo addon <a:pepegaroll:71388702078677...
life without FOSS
foggy silo
<#925530366192779286> oh man Owen π₯² could've make something else haha
Time to dig for some new entity api? π³
worn ember
i wonder where the minimessage update got merged
foggy silo
Never was
worn ember
so dependabot is like "here's an update for x" but you know x will break stuff, how do you deal with this? Merge anyway and then commit fixes or how do you do this?
worn crest
Time to dig for some new entity api? π³
Or for some ASWM things 
magic river
so dependabot is like "here's an update for x" but you know x will break stuff, ...
Step 1) Write a CI pipeline and some unit tests that will fail when the update is applied
Step 2) There is no step 2, iirc dependabot understands a build failure and does something else
Otherwise I'd close the dependabot PR and just make a new one that updates and fixes at the same time
worn ember
thanks
mossy vessel
Imagine pulling prs without testing
vernal moth
I push the fixes to the dependabot branch
mossy vessel
One downside of that is/was that dependabot can no longer rebase the PR if you push to it.
lean kiln
whether we buy the system dark mode addon is not up to me anyways
serene bolt
it's actually really dumb that the prefers dark mode auto theme switch is an addon locked behind the massive bundle that costs a stupid amount of money
my short time in shopping for xenforo addons made me realize how rich everyone must be with all the nickel and diming
worn ember
cost of being pretty
vernal moth
Can't you just like write the 5 lines of code yourself?
Testing a media query and executing some API call doesn't seem hard
serene bolt
yeah, it's probably really simple to do lol
vernal moth
I would but am still knocked out plus I don't wanna touch xenforo
Cause ewwww php
Would need to find a way to change the theme on the fly, is that possible?
Else could trigger a reload I guess
serene bolt
you'd have to change the users theme based on the preference, which would need a reload
can't dynamically swap
vernal moth
Typical last century app
On load, check prefers dark media query, if yes, change window.location to that
Idk what the token is tho
And it would lead to an ugly flash of white
Do you know what the addon does? I don't know how one would detect the theme server side
serene bolt
absolutely no clue
vernal moth
I love you google
Oh you got it too
I love the client hints api
Only works on Google browsers of course but that's good enough
magic river
π¦
vernal moth
Love how the Firefox issue has no response since August
Actually never mind, it has no responses are all, its all just the author, lmao
magic river
webkit never responded either
vernal moth
Well, if people want modern features they gotta use modern browsers I guess
Anybody here can write xenforo plugins? Lol
serene bolt
sulu figured out how to do a basic addon, or rather the basics of how addons work
since he was experimenting with the image proxy on the forums
left swift
I cant believe my work would put all of our lives at risk and install 5g access points!!
magic river
btw it looks like the WG position on that feature is "no, this is dumb" π
The base problem of this proposal is the exposure of user state rather than client capabilities of user preference media features. This allows user state handling on the server side which can lead to race conditions and undesired error state and user experience. One that doesn't exist today with media features which are evaluated and handled on the client side. This is not a safe pattern and should be avoided.
I wonder if Edge strips that out then
brave mountain
would you recommend something like this? if you doesn't know java yet?
https://mineacademy.org/project-orion
twin lagoon
no
mossy vessel
No
twin lagoon
avoid mineacademy and everything kangarko
left swift
brave mountain
avoid mineacademy and everything kangarko
are you kidding?
twin lagoon
no
viral pilot
I'd defn avoid it also tbh
left swift
teach me the spigot π©
twin lagoon
clickbait courses earn him enough to make a living off of it apparently
wonder how much money you can make off of those
tropic flame
are you kidding?
Michael never jokes in service
left swift
Michael: how to server admin (ASYNC NO EXPERIENCE)
twin lagoon
oh for sure
probably
guy has been spamming it for fucking years now
you can already make a living off of minecraft plugins
can only imagine the amount of $ earned on top of it with this course shit
brave mountain
So I better lean java the hard way
tropic flame
you better learn Java the proper way
left swift
onlyfans but minecraft plugins
tropic flame
it's not with minecraft-centered scams tutorials
twin lagoon
left swift
hmm yes
foggy silo
^ And for your future, probably don't want. π
magic river
^
tropic flame
the API is basically just a library like any other, learn the basics of the basics in Bukkit's wiki which is still around and then just navigate through the javadocs
and and look at forums
no need for Minecraft courses lmfao
magic river
That message should have a bunch of useful resources for getting started
Once you know Java doing plugins isn't too hard to figure out
#general message in case you didn't see the reply
left swift
how do u spigot a paper
brave mountain
I'm on it, expect PR's in one month π
vernal moth
Finally chrome will adopt it then
magic river
Firefox has higher numbers on that than Chrome π
vernal moth
Am surprised apple is doing so good on experimental
magic river
They've been making a push for the last little while on getting caught up on things
lavish compass
@twin lagoon
twin lagoon
little frost
@untold meadow best kezz
best kezz who knew about a parser problem but didn't open an issue
novel horizon
untold meadow
best kezz who knew about a parser problem but didn't open an issue
who KNEW?!.
fake news
untold meadow
minions of lives
outer dock
there is no paper 1.18.2 yet, right?
cunning raft
outer dock
Btw I admire your work, my brain is to smooth to do anything you guys do! Please keep up the amazing work
left swift
thanks pepe squidward
novel pasture
left swift
void void
hello ppl
magic river
Ok so after digging in a little more it looks like this Redmi Note 9T is now a paperweight in the US
Hmm, well, maybe if I get a one month T-Mobile SIM... will have to check that
You can't even put a new AT&T sim in to it to use only for SMS and data, they won't activate it
magic river
Nope, T-Mobile told me to fuck off too
This is what happened to the streamer I was watching play Elden Ring, it's why he explored half the map at SL1 with no pants and a club https://www.gamesradar.com/avoid-this-horrible-chest-to-hell-in-elden-ring-at-all-costs/
tropic flame
Nope, T-Mobile told me to fuck off too
why though, what's wrong with that phone?
magic river
Supposedly everyone is a bit shit at implemented VoLTE so they need to certify all of them actually work
Europe seems to do okay though
Then again I think I'm looking at a post about a German telco doing the same certification whitelisting so...
Oh they're actually Dutch
vernal moth
VoLTE sometimes even is a paid addon
magic river
the GSMA (A mobile telco lobby organisation who donβt allow MVNOβs to be a member), maintain the NSX database with operator settings including for VoLTE and VoWiFi, which handset makers could use but donβt. Apple and Samsung flat out refuse.
Seems both sides are jerks about it
dawn pond
can someone reply to me in #velocity-help
vernal moth
Sounds like regulator needs to step in, lol
magic river
The big problem is that they apparently don't have a good enough test suite for VoLTE and VoWifi so they're all subtly incompatible
vernal moth
Standards, woooo
quick obsidian
kenny i see you typing in #β-1-18-2
magic river
It's up to Qualcomm, Mediatek, Android, Apple, the carriers, etc to work together to sort all that shit out but both sides seem to be lazy, cheap, or view it as a means to control/upsell things
the 3GPP was only mentioned as the organisation that chose the wrong VoLTE implementation (out of six proposals?) Other than that the 3GPP appears to play no role here.. (Weird in my opinion that we have a global standard, that no one agrees on, rough consensus and running code is not a thing here it seems.) The story I heard was that everybody kind of forgot to standardize VoLTE, because they thought another 3GPP working group would do it. But you know, that is just as good as 6 ideas and the wrong one chosen.
TIL GSM started as Europe deciding this shit needed to be interoperable and 13 countries agreeing to enforce that
vernal moth
I mean, that's how most standards started
magic river
I'm used to the internet π
vernal moth
In Europe stuff is much closer connected so interoperability is way more important
magic river
Most standards in the real world are "Germany thinks of thing, documents the shit out of it, everyone just copies that" π
vernal moth
Well internet was military, we don't do that here
vernal moth
Most standards in the real world are "Germany thinks of thing, documents the shi...
Ye that too, lmao
magic river
I think that's legitimately how things like building codes work
A country, state, city, etc might tweak things a bit or add things but they all start with the German version as a base
magic river
GSM started outside of ETSI though, it didn't start as "we should try to come up with some kind of standards here" and then regulators enforced usage of it later. The regulators started out deciding everyone was going to use the same thing, started work on the standard, then transferred it to ETSI.
Maybe that's normal in Europe, dunno
It sure isn't over here
vernal moth
Still angry that EVs didn't standardized one plug, ccs, and now everybody also needs to deal with chademo
magic river
Our regulators are pretty much always reactionary and either wait for the various incompatible things to start working together or for their to be a clear winner
golden gust
ChadEmo