general

[vernal moth]

But I am surprised that there are people using the GitHub app, lol

[potent fossil]

That is actually quite funny, good shit

[chilly night]

I Think It's Way More Simple Then Type git commit That I Broke My Repo From Type It In Wrong Order

[potent fossil]

Git simply is not that hard

[vernal moth]

I Think It's Funny That You Choose To Type Your Messages Like This

This Isn't A Clickbait Headline

[potent fossil]

I Asked Him About It Before, He Said It Just Looks Better

[chilly night]

Just Need Token Go To Website Search YouTube For How to And Token You Created Won't Work And Repeat Do It All From Start

[vernal moth]

Oh you failed to even login, lmao

But I wasnt glazing the CLI, I would use my ide or text editor

[magic river]

So I set up a new AI skill to do a thorough and adversarial review of my code on a bunch of different metrics (design, correctness, consistency, documentation, etc) and running it on just the latest module we created spawned ~100 agents, blew through my entire token usage limit for the session in like 5-10 minutes, and only got like 80% done

[vernal moth]

That's desirable

You just learned token maxing

[chilly night]

VSCode Also Have Build-In Git To Use But Still Not Understandable

[potent fossil]

100 agents

[vernal moth]

Your boss will be proud of you in your performance review

[potent fossil]

I'm using openclaw to do some vacation research for me, helping me plan out itineraries. Max I've seen so far is 4 agents running at once, one per city I plan to visit. Never seen 100

[vernal moth]

I thought openclaw is only for crazy people

[magic river]

It spit out 14000 lines of complaints

[potent fossil]

I went kinda crazy recently, unfortunately

[vernal moth]

Isn't that the "yolo, here, have full control over my PC" thing?

[potent fossil]

Can be but I put it on a k8s cluster in a locked down pod, so it doesn't have that

but yea some people do

[magic river]

Some of them are "you didn't do X like the rest of your code" and yeah, that's because the rest of our code sucks 😄

But there are a bunch of consistency issues within this module it pointed out, some real bugs, some potential footguns that work fine now but are fragile, etc

[potent fossil]

the personality it has decided to embody is slightly amusing

[chilly night]

Applying patches

[strong thistle]

wtf

is this real?

[potent fossil]

No

There is a Minecraft achievement website

[chilly night]

POV: Your Server Just Started

[potent fossil]

k

Don't know don't care

[ashen cliff]

Yes.

[true canyon]

I don't think we have been clear enough.

You will not receive support here.

Also, please stop capitalizing every word in your sentences. Thank you.

[frigid umbra]

This looks kinda nice

Purple sky is nice

[potent fossil]

makes me worried for whatever unfortunate planet this is, as the purple hotspots indicate magnetic particle storms and there are not 1, but 3 (arguably 4) of them happening simultaneously

(but yes, pretty. ooh ahh)

[vast plover]

anyone know of a plugin that can randomize .ogg songs for players?

[hard stone]

Strokkur, will you add relevant docs after the discussion done in the dev channel?

[frigid umbra]

That the requirement predicate is checked only against the original sender/executor combination when using /executes, and does not actually re-check if any of them were changed?

[hard stone]

Yes, exactly that.

[frigid umbra]

I don't see anything speaking against adding that to the docs, probably in the requirements section as an aside

[hard stone]

Funny thing,

for (final Map.Entry<String, org.bukkit.command.Command> entry : getServer().getCommandMap().getKnownCommands().entrySet()) {
    getLogger().info("A command in for: " + entry.getKey() + " " + entry.getValue());
}
``` is logging but
```java
getServer().getCommandMap().getKnownCommands().forEach((key, value) -> 
                getLogger().info("A command in forEach: " + key + " " + value));
``` is not logging :,)

[frigid umbra]

When are you running that

[hard stone]

in an executes block of a Brigadier command node.

[lilac comet]

I have to say, I don't get people loving their Apple devices. On iOS/iPad OS I've had issues I never had on any device:

• my iPad 9 regularly (twice a week) crashes the system UI or even sometimes all opened apps when opening large webpages it can't handle or large PDFs (Discord call gone, return to Touch ID)
• my iPhone XS overheats while charging causing charging to take longer and system performance while charging to be abysmal to the point of audio not properly playing anymore

Ok, tbf, my Surface Go had the issue of charging causing it to get so hot it got uncomfortable to hold

[crude trellis]

I'd love iPhone/iPad if not for their completely closed ecosystem.
MacBooks are fine machines.

The fact that you can't run Docker or Homebrew on this is just stupid.

[vernal moth]

Well, its not made for that

I find it more stupid you can't get a proper apple laptop with a touch screen

[upper flicker]

its damn near the exact same hardware they just dont intend for that use case

tbf there are advantages to that as well - just not ones that people like us will appreciate 🙂

[brisk acorn]

I personally never understood the concept of a touch screen on a laptop, at least I'd get extremely anxious having to look at my fingerprints there

[upper flicker]

The last touchscreen laptop I had I never used the touchscreen, and I certainly dont miss not having one

clearly theres some people that want it for one reason or another

[brisk acorn]

yh, for sure there are, it's just not for everyone

[vernal moth]

That's why it should be an option

[chilly night]

Meow

[potent fossil]

the advantages:

[upper flicker]

that one doesnt hurt either, though it is a thing people like

average person generally doesnt want the app store to be a free for all

obviously that doesnt mean apple should be exacting such a ridiculous toll and there's no other way to do it - but I digress

[potent fossil]

https://getutm.app/

[upper flicker]

shame they yanked the jit access

[vernal moth]

Frankly borderline illegal

[crude trellis]

Works only on jailbroken or old devices.

[potent fossil]

Yup, never said otherwise. When I paste links, reading is generally required. I don't hold hands

[crude trellis]

I don't agree with this framing. If it's a device I 100% own and paid for, I should be able to run any software on it I want, no exceptions.

[vernal moth]

I don't disagree?

[potent fossil]

anyway, goodnight folks

huggles @upper flicker

[vernal moth]

Apple not allowing apps to use a JIT is borderline illegal

[crude trellis]

👍
I misunderstood your message. ❤️

[cunning raft]

🗣️

[vernal moth]

I mean, apple not allowing custom browser engines was already ruled illegal

[upper flicker]

that was a competition issue iirc, apple includes a browser, not fair to not allow others

which is a bit tenuous but I mean sure ok

not aware of any of apple's apps using the JIT except ... the browser coincidentally, which I believe they allow others to use in those regions

if the argument is that you bought it and should be able to utilize the hardware to the fullest extent, I suppose thats reasonable, but I disagree that apple has to provide anything more than an escape hatch to leave their garden

which is basically what they do on the mac so if push comes to shove I suppose they could do it there - sure wont be fun though

choose your rent seeker I guess

[vernal moth]

Under DMA I would argue that apple, as the gate keeper, prohibits me to access the same tech (jit) they use (in the their browser app)

[upper flicker]

they will allow you to use it in your browser app

Im not aware of the DMA requiring them to allow you to do things that they do not do

which is why they've started blocking some features from the EU entirely

petty and sure to enrage, but funny

[vernal moth]

It's any tech I would guess, like one argument was nfc iirc

[upper flicker]

they use NFC

thats why they lost that one

several EU banks? bank-adjancent financial groups, something like that, argued it wasnt fair they could use it for apple pay, but they couldnt use it

some of the wallet travel passes probably also use NFC

if there's been any movement to force them to open up tech they dont use, Ive not seen it

[vernal moth]

Idk, I am not affected so I don't follow it closely

[cunning raft]

DMA larp law

provide an option to flash your own firmware

and do it yourself

[vernal moth]

Why do you hate consumers?

[cunning raft]

they're fucking annoying

[upper flicker]

you can feel its good for consumers, and still feel its a bit of rent seeking defeatism to require companies to create opportunities for yours

[cunning raft]

and all these larp larp sahur EU laws make the threat modals of these devices worse

[upper flicker]

the EU is certainly capable of creating its own ecosystem that would surpass them

or maybe they arent - dont know

[cunning raft]

just do it like android does, allow bootloader unlocking and do whatever you want after that. but make the user have to wipe the device to do it

[vernal moth]

It's not all companies, just the gate keepers, monopoly like, which seems fair

[upper flicker]

get good?

EU citizens arent choosing these foreign companies because they like the foreign companies

and the argument that the EU is blocked from competing in the space is ... questionable

but then its up to the EU to decide that

and well we know what they decided

[vernal moth]

That's the issue with monopolys, they abuse network effects or their market dominance to promote additional products, which makes it impossible to compete

[cunning raft]

not really

you could ban the product

force your own countries to make it

[upper flicker]

Would rather like to see the EU capitalize on the current political environment, going to leave it there, to truly separate its market and technologies rather than just rent seek on others

and tbf theyve made progress elsewhere, mobile is just not one of those places

[vernal moth]

That would be protectionism which is bad too

[upper flicker]

its all protectionism

the DMA is protectionism

the US does the same for chinese cars

[vernal moth]

It's kinda happening in software

[upper flicker]

do you like this specific protectionism, or do you dislike it - is about all the argument ever boils down to

[upper flicker]

100% starting to go in the right direction, glad

good for them

only makes everyone better, even here

[vernal moth]

Super surprised that the German gov funds opendesk or the sovereign tech fund

[cunning raft]

please make a german jira and sell it in the US

[upper flicker]

100%

anything to replace JIRA and anything else atlassian makes

the EU also pumping money into open source desktop software, linux adjacent stuff

super cool

love it wish we did that here

There is no one who wants EU-independent tech and ecosystems more than me because it benefits everyone

Im just not convinced the DMA is a successful tool in that pursuit, as youre just slowly and angrily forcing people to build on the same platforms

[vernal moth]

Oh no my tax money went to Scala https://www.sovereign.tech/tech

[upper flicker]

nevermind, hate the EU

taxes going to scala, french riot time

[vernal moth]

It's not an EU program, all german

[upper flicker]

oh

sorry EU

fekin german taxes

[vernal moth]

Lol lodash

[vernal moth]

Opendesk apparently includes https://www.openproject.org/

Never heard about it

Apparently my city is using it, cool

They do get stuff done sometimes so can't be that bad

[upper flicker]

JIRA is one of those tools that can change a lot depending on how your company has it set up

usually for the worse tbh

but yeah jira bad

[vernal moth]

Out of context gifs and memes go to #gifs-and-memes

[unkempt token]

Oh my bad I never saw that channel lol

[vernal moth]

I wonder if we ever looked into opendesk at work

I should look into that next week

Even just as an exit strategy

[upper flicker]

see if you can stand it up and just move a team to it

[vernal moth]

(we just moved from gitlab to ghe :/ )

[cunning raft]

good!

gitlab sucks fucking ass

[upper flicker]

let their manager handle any interop with the main jira

gitlab is uhh, yeah they need to stop bolting shit on

[crude trellis]

Even that is not possible on Android now. Any kind of alternative firmware (even GrapheneOS) fails Play Integrity preventing McDonald's app from working. 😡

[cunning raft]

sorry that sounds like you have a problem with mcdonalds

[vernal moth]

Yeah that doesn't work here, any new product needs to go thru our workers council to make sure it can't be used to track employees, it need to go thru legal, data protection etc

[cunning raft]

i wouldn't want to facilitate payments on your janky unlocked device either

[upper flicker]

how does that work, because I can use just about any tool to track employees

the reason I dont is Im not a slime ball and Id fucking leave, and we have all sorts of policies against it

not because we only use tech that makes it impossible

which I doubt is a thing

[vernal moth]

Then we write a contract between the workers council and the company with a pinky promise that it will never be used that way

[crude trellis]

Janky? GrapheneOS on Pixel is janky? 🤨

[upper flicker]

move to a free and open source fast food joint instead

[cunning raft]

you unlocked your bootloader to use it yes

you're off of secure boot

[upper flicker]

libredonalds where are you

[crude trellis]

Well, for many people it's "switch banks" because the list of apps that use Play Integrity in "strong" mode is pretty long.

[cunning raft]

for good reason!

[crude trellis]

GrapheneOS relocks the bootloader after installing.

[upper flicker]

it is yeah - and thats another one of those competing priorities issues

[cunning raft]

ah did they start doing that now

still

play integrity is working as intended

[upper flicker]

you get into banking reform pretty quickly in your software freedom project

[crude trellis]

They started doing that years ago. GrapheneOS literal no 1 priority is security. 😉

So any kind of "janky" or "insecure" or "rooted" arguments are literally missing the point.

[upper flicker]

I would be curious how the EU feels about play integrity and their banks vs open software

[wide chasm]

Open source OS and no longer eating fast food? Sounds like a great combo deal!

[upper flicker]

at least local fast food anyway stef

[cunning raft]

because google can only verify integrity for their own software

have GrapheneOS make their own integrity api and see if any banks use that

(they won't)

[vernal moth]

Ye, if fast food, at least don't go to some dum (american) chain

[cunning raft]

(addressable market is less than 5000 people)

[vernal moth]

Small local stores are so much nicer

[upper flicker]

idk how you solve that with the banks tbh

socialize the banking APIs

[crude trellis]

Google "verifies integrity" of Xiaomi firmware that literally shows you ads.

[cunning raft]

what the fuck does ads have to do with that

you're just being disingenuous

[crude trellis]

Also, you can have a device that's a year out of date on security patches that still verifies integrity.

[cunning raft]

Xiaomi is an android oem partner

[vernal moth]

You are off by 100x, and oems are starting to offer shipping with graphene pre installed

[cunning raft]

i assure you mini, 500,000 do not run graphine os as their daily driver

[worthy geode]

Some of the EU Digital Wallet Implementations require it, others do not. It is a bit controversial in that context to say the least

[crude trellis]

Motorola in a year, yes. I really hope they start passing Play Integrity, I'll buy it on day 1 if that's the case.

[upper flicker]

was the issue with one of the eu digital identity solutions (proposed?) requiring integrity ever resolved? https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/issues/18

[vernal moth]

That's already a thing in Europe, all banks have to implement a api

[upper flicker]

right but that isnt solving the problem

so you have to go further

[cunning raft]

this has nothing to do with integrity

[vernal moth]

That's just a demo app

Ah no that's the spec

[wide chasm]

Okay, but this conversation also seems like its politics, which is a no.

[crude trellis]

Which just proves my point that "play integrity" serves literally no legitimate purpose. 🙂

[cunning raft]

if an unpatched security vuln was used on a phone and broke trust, play integrity would likely not pass

[vernal moth]

I think it's fair of jroy to say yell at your bank/whatever company

[cunning raft]

so i don't understand your point

[worthy geode]

• there is https://uattest.net/, some EU company wanting to provide an alternative open source attestation service

[upper flicker]

I wonder how you do meaningful attestation as a third party

could be interesting

[cunning raft]

you really can't unless it's a system service

and you'd need apps to use it

[vernal moth]

Is this really how this works? I have no idea but that would surprise me

[upper flicker]

looks like it runs as a privileged service and talks to their backend, but yes apps have to opt in

[cunning raft]

it's part of it

[vernal moth]

I remember being able to pass integrity on a rooted device

[upper flicker]

there are (or were?) levels of integrity

[vernal moth]

Idk if they got better, I don't bother nowadays

[cunning raft]

you can no longer do that

you used to be able to do it as long as you didn't edit the system partition

[upper flicker]

you could be super strict on your bank app but just require its not rooted on your game app or whatever

[cunning raft]

but now integrety is better and the magisk guy works for google :))

[vernal moth]

Haha

Joining the dark side I see

Weak he was

Joda would be sad

[worthy geode]

I ended up just using older versions of my banking apps that still worked lol

[cunning raft]

he gets to basically still do the stuff he likes to do and get paid for it (and he still maintains magisk less integrety bypass stuff)

[worthy geode]

Revolut tolerated like a 2yo version until it complained

[patent current]

Okay lowkey, PC game pass for 12€ is kind of a no brainer. You get Day One day one new xbox games, Ubisoft+ and EA Play. Thats crazy

[timid pasture]

is there a channel i can post my server in, so I can get help with a plugin, I use Paper.

[worthy geode]

If you have an issue with a plugin, it's best to ask the author of that plugin for help. Most plugins have a discord of their own, usually linked on the plugin page where you downloaded it from

[prisma orchid]

Does anyone know a way, how to convert music to noteblock sounds on minecraft?

[warm anchor]

First search on Google, you can give it a try https://www.reddit.com/r/redstone/comments/1sfpf2p/i_made_a_tool_to_convert_midi_files_into/

I guess you should also ensure the music is loyalty free or something you made yourself

cant be using music made by actual artist who you dont own the right to

[grave dove]

What is the best plugin for nametags? Something similar to UnlimitedNameTags

[tacit prairie]

https://modrinth.com/plugin/tab-was-taken is pretty popular. It can let you change player names.

LuckPerms can also handle name prefixes/suffixes, which allows you to make permission-based roles

[novel sonnet]

Player names, name colors, rank orders, text under the nameplate (e.g. hearts)

It's in my opinion one of the best plugins ever created

such a lifesaver

[tacit prairie]

True dat

[rough dragon]

didn't tab remove their nametag change feature recently?

[obsidian gull]

Bros there is any mc server in paper mc

@here

[wintry sonnet]

What

[kind vapor]

real the rules #welcome

[stuck lava]

aww...

PROD=DEV=Backup

and testing too

[prisma dirge]

There I go - master's admission starts on August 2026

[patent current]

For?

[kind vapor]

Paper server running master

[chilly night]

Hi

[patent current]

@true crystal

[sterile tinsel]

by chance, does anyone have an idea how to avoid this..? like, their pathfinder is trying to go somewhere but instead they're stuck in a corner forever and ever

[warm anchor]

The only choice is demolish the building now.

[sterile tinsel]

[warm anchor]

Jokes aside yesh the AI in game is pretty primitive

[sterile tinsel]

i... noticed

[potent fossil]

just sat here fighting my cf worker, screaming about how my code was in an unreachable state and that the worker runtime had to kill my process due to that reason

it was because I was trying to deserialize to the wrong type?

could you not have just returned an error instead of the theatrics cloudflare?

[tropic flame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tiIIHNOzrQ

so TIL Compaq is still a thing

the original company is defunct but the brand is owned by HP, and they don't want to use it, so they've licensed it to a bunch of third parties to sell consumer electronics

which begs the question, who the hell thinks Compaq has good brand perception in 2026? Compaq is a dinosaur, they're ancient, anything I buy Compaq I will expect to be some sort of retro device 😭

my first monitor was a Compaq CRT

[true canyon]

I think it's for grandparent who remembers the brand from when computers were introduced in their workplace before retiring. "If it's still around it must be good"

[wide chasm]

I've never heard of Compaq

[indigo mesa]

That’s why JS is bad, No real type system

[vernal moth]

Thankfully we have TS

[true canyon]

I've always preferred mumble over TS

[potent fossil]

The worker is written in Rust

Hence my reaction

[indigo mesa]

Oh lol

[magic river]

afaik Compaq were the first to sell an IBM PC compatible computer

[indigo mesa]

Does TS even really count? It doesn’t enforce it at runtime

[magic river]

Neither does Rust

Or C

[weary burrow]

hello, g'day for minecraft developers

[native grove]

hi :D

[weary burrow]

hi

I can remembr at age 13 when i form the team

😄

[magic river]

I think Compaq also had the first 80386 computers?

[weary burrow]

minecraft that is

[true canyon]

Are you pretending you created Minecraft again? 🙄

[weary burrow]

is there a problem sir

i can follow me dreams

[true canyon]

I'm sure there are roleplay servers meant for this.

[weary burrow]

true

[magic river]

Following your dreams would be planning for the future. Making up your past would be delusional, lying, and/or roleplay depending on the context

[weary burrow]

mbax can i show my linkedin

[true canyon]

I can't stop you, but if it's more bizarre roleplay I don't think this is the right server for it.

[magic river]

sigh

[weary burrow]

there everyone happy

i eposed myself

[frigid umbra]

Congrats on being a mojang dev

[fading lark]

Hello All!

[weary burrow]

thx

[magic river]

I don't think that's a person, they just joined multiple discords and immediately spammed that message

[weary burrow]

hes a idot thinking running a rack serveris cool

[true canyon]

On Spigot they posted an ad.

[magic river]

They did here too, someone deleted it

[true canyon]

that's unnecessarily rude

[weary burrow]

sorry

[frigid umbra]

Yeah that'd be me, I tend to delete those after #campground message

I don't take any more action though, am not a mod

[buoyant moss]

1387051538337239060
@cursive rain

how do you manage this not once

but twice

[cursive rain]

Sorry

[weary burrow]

why

thats a scam

[buoyant moss]

this guy first randomly sent me a scam in dms -> they got banned from a server bcuz of it and got mad at me for it

they litterally did the same thing again 💀

[true canyon]

Are you going to stop DMing members of this server with scams? Or should I remove you.

[weary burrow]

grabs popcorn

okay

[true canyon]

Commentary like this is unnecessary. This is your second wholly unnecessary, not-reading-the-room message in a short period. Please work on reading the room.

[weary burrow]

okay

[buoyant moss]

sorry to say this but it seesm like he is doing this constantly in every miencraft server he joins

he did this in other minecraft servers too

[lilac kiln]

what would be the best way to log minecraft chats to a discord channel using webhooks without getting ratelimited, skipping messages, or being too slow and late
e.g batching 5 messages every second or something

[warm anchor]

You can save the chat log manually and upload to a chat channel if you want

That way you will never get rate limited

[potent fossil]

Goodnight frens

[warm anchor]

Night night simple

[lilac kiln]

uh so i was on my test server messing with webhooks spamming messages and its rate limiting like all my webhooks now

its been like 7 minutes none of the webhooks are sending anything

theyre from different plugins aswell how are they connected

any idea when it will be unratelimited

[gleaming spear]

What about using a gateway by using a reverse proxy to ratelimit?

[lilac kiln]

or unbanend

what does that mean

discord.errors.HTTPException: 429 Too Many Requests (error code: 0): You are being blocked from accessing our API temporarily due to exceeding global rate limits. Refer to https://discord.com/developers/docs/topics/rate-limits for more information.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1415859593275510856/1468738066947641406/togif.gif

[lilac comet]

My Android phone stuck on Android 12 which hasn't been getting security updates since 2023 apparently has Strong Integrity... all while probably having tons of holes you can poke to compromise it

[narrow trout]

Yeah you solve that problem by not doing what you want to do lol

[cunning raft]

if you want to be disingenuous and purposely try to misunderstand what I'm saying you can do that all day

a bank app can set minimum android versions if they want to

play integrity (for now) is agnostic to android versions

[native grove]

The code I work in now uses so much deprecated content, it doesn't matter

Well, that's another thing I need to work on, this vibe-coded plugin that doesn't even work

[indigo mesa]

ooooh internal channel leak

[true dust]

yo can someone help me in #adventure-help

[true canyon]

Please do not crosspost requests like this. This is a large community with varied interests. People who can help in the adventure help channel watch the channel for activity.

[true dust]

Alright

[serene river]

https://youtu.be/tv_Jzb16Un0?si=ACQxjdq-AX72gual I watched this today its such a banger

[timber sentinel]

one moth

[frigid umbra]

I've finally (kinda, it's running!) finished my AP-utils library! As a test, I decided to make a simple annotation processor, which given a record, can create a builder class. Nothing revolutionary, but a pretty typical use case. In my example, you can have a record like this: ```java
@CreateBuilder
public record Person(
String firstName,
String lastName,
@CanBeNull @Nullable String address,
@ForString("Pizza") String favoriteFood,
@ForInt(2) int age
) {
}

And it will create a builder class with all components. `@CanBeNull` means that the value can stay unset, `@ForString` and `@ForInt` just set default values. Simple stuff, really.

This is the full processor class. There is no additional logic beside this one singular class: [BuilderProcessor.java](<https://pastes.dev/hiP6qnzXkA>) . With 191 lines, it seems big, but inside those almost 200 lines the following stuff is packed:
1. Discovering all record classes annotated with `@CreateBuilder`.
2. Parsing all record components, with respect to `@CanBeNull`, `@ForString`, and `@ForInt`.
3. Creating the builder class, adding fields, adding a `create()` method which is just a more convenient constructor, adding setter/getting methods, and adding a `build` method, which constructs the original record, with respect to nullabilty ensurance.
4. Actually printing the generated class file (which is handled by my library, to be fair).

For the example record above, the following class gets printed: [PersonBuilder.java](<https://pastes.dev/uvxt7CSO2m>). And it functions exactly as you'd want it to!
```java
PersonBuilder builder = PersonBuilder.create()
  .setFirstName("Andrew")
  .setLastName("Holland");

builder.setAge(24);

Person andrew = builder.build();

I am satisfied with the results!

[patent current]

we did that for our data library

[frigid umbra]

The record builder APs?

Yeah it's very typical

[patent current]

nah

[frigid umbra]

No?

[patent current]

but Annoation Processors

like

[frigid umbra]

Fair

How did your use case look like?

[patent current]

we have a PersistentValue class that wrapps an object and the AP generates getters/setters and a query method where you can query based on the wrapped object's fields

its basically like jakarta persistence but a little fine grained for our use case

https://github.com/StaticStudios/static-data

if you are interested

[frigid umbra]

Do you hook into javac to directly modify the source class, similar to how lombok does it, or do you go the proper way and generate a new class for it?

[patent current]

yes

i think we hook into javac

(i did not write it)

[frigid umbra]

Yeah I am seeing lombok stuff and javachook

Technically something that's not really liked, but that depends on who you are talking to

Seems like a neat use case though

[grim hearth]

messing with javac directly usually ends up being pain in the ass long term lol

[grim hearth]

if you just generate new files with an AP it's cleaner imo

[patent current]

yeah it was massive bloat to have getters/setters and a bunch of query methods in the Data Classes we migrated to that.

[grim hearth]

Makes sense, glad AP worked out for you. Boilerplate is the worst.

[frigid umbra]

Yeah, my AP util lib only supports new class generation, since that's the only thing I will be doing, but if it by any chance ends up popping off in the Java community (it won't), I would probably not even be opposed to adding support

It's generally a neat concept to modify existing files, very similar to how some languages support macros (looking at Rust)

But it's also annoying to do in Java, since it's entirely unsupported

[grim hearth]

yeah java really doesnt want you doing that out of the box lol

[grim hearth]

super annoying comparing to rust macros

[patent current]

we actually had to write a intelliJ plugin for the getters/setters to be correctly picked up by the auto complete and stuff. How did you handle that?

[frigid umbra]

Me?

[patent current]

yes

[grim hearth]

we didn't lol, just dealt with red lines sometimes

[frigid umbra]

I mean, my AP just generates a completely new line

Gradle recognizes that as a source set and completion works entirely natively

You can even look at the source code

[grim hearth]

if generating sources correctly with gradle usually it picks up after compile

[patent current]

yeah but in real time?

[indigo mesa]

W library

[frigid umbra]

You need to run at least gradle assemble, but then it is in real time, sure

[gray pawn]

w strokkur ❤️‍🩹

[patent current]

ah ok

[indigo mesa]

gradle/idea should really add something like that to make it easier

[frigid umbra]

Funny you say that

There exists the idea Gradle plugin, which can, for example, run gradle assemble on project open automatically, so you don't have to

[indigo mesa]

but that takes compile time

[grim hearth]

yeah that idea plugin is solid but it can make startup slow as hell sometimes

[frigid umbra]

Yeah true

I haven't looked into it at all really

[gray pawn]

gradle startup is just slow 💀

[frigid umbra]

Also true

[indigo mesa]

does lombok still use compiler hacks to inject methods?

[gray pawn]

yes

[frigid umbra]

Though tbh most of the time Gradle startup is caused by downloading other stuff

At least for me

[indigo mesa]

They really should add an api for like what lombok does

[grim hearth]

yeah that downloading part is real lol, but even on local builds sometimes it just hangs

[indigo mesa]

I need static CODEC field

[frigid umbra]

I wish they would

It would be so great

If they made lombok actually supported properly, I would probably definitely switch

[indigo mesa]

couldnt you technically write your own lib around compiler hacks?

[frigid umbra]

But it is in such a weird state in the community

[indigo mesa]

like use the library that you made

then hook it into the compiler

[frigid umbra]

Sure, I could, but in the end it's still compiler hacks, even if hidden behind a library

[grim hearth]

tru, still feels messy at the end of the day. it's like putting lipstick on a pig

[frigid umbra]

If at least one person tells me explicitly that they want to use my library and they want me to support compiler hacks, I would probably implement it

But I am currently at zero people interested, so I won't be doing it for myself

[indigo mesa]

I would use your library with compiler hacks

for multiple projects

[thin bramble]

should i stop hoping that mojang will make dialogs more powerful or can i keep copeing?

[frigid umbra]

What projects for example?

[indigo mesa]

COPIUM

[grim hearth]

looks like you got your user Strokkur lol

[frigid umbra]

Webhead is like my most loyal library user

[indigo mesa]

I have wanted to make something for minestom that auto generates a CODEC field in the data classes

but never got far into the compiler

[frigid umbra]

I am not sure what I did to deserve it, but he's been around since the very start of my command lib lol

[warm anchor]

How about the cycle of hope and cope.

[grim hearth]

classic, the eternal hope and cope cycle :D

[frigid umbra]

Okay well that certainly sounds like a use case. How would the codec field gen work anyways? What is it that you generate it from?

[indigo mesa]

lemme make an example

[frigid umbra]

I've used Minestom before, I've just never gotten into their codec stuff

[thin bramble]

I'll just continue to cope, i guess, by this point it's sunk cost fallacy

[grim hearth]

sunk cost fallacy is too real lol

[grim hearth]

at least you have company in cope cycle

[indigo mesa]

so something like this

@GenerateCodec
public record Test(String id, int amount) {
}

would generate

@GenerateCodec
public record Test(String id, int amount) {
    public static final Codec<Test> CODEC = StructCodec.struct(
        "id", Codec.STRING, Test::id,
        "amount", Codec.INT, Test::amount,
        Test::new
    );
}

and it would walk down classes and find the codec fields and use them

[frigid umbra]

Oh hey, I can actually already completely model that using my current code-gen stuff

[indigo mesa]

well the field cant be inside of the class

[frigid umbra]

Obviously when messing with the compiler, it would require not compiling it into strings, but the compiler intermediate representation

[indigo mesa]

ya

[grim hearth]

yeah fields inside the class are tricky if you only generate from outside.

[grim hearth]

cleanest way is separate classes for codecs usually

[indigo mesa]

but then you cant do Test.CODEC which is how all minestomers do it

[frigid umbra]

Yeah that's a fair use case though imo

[indigo mesa]

I do also have other ideas for an event system

[frigid umbra]

One thing I am thinking about though, is that if one wants to create an AP for something like that, the problem is that IJ doesn't resolve the field obviously

[grim hearth]

yeah minestom peeps love their static codecs everywhere lol. makes sense for them i guess

[indigo mesa]

oooh good point

[frigid umbra]

Oh I am thinking about something

What if I also generate some sort of descriptor file. Let's call it "generated-elements.gen", and I make an IntelliJ plugin, which reads that file and automatically extends the element search by the generated elements

[grim hearth]

yeah that's the main pain point with custom code gen, intellij just gets confused. separate classes keep it cleaner for sure

[indigo mesa]

I was thinking on the same path

but how would it find them

it would have to search libraries as well

[frigid umbra]

I mean, it can just look into generated lib

That's always present under /build/generated/annotationProcessor/

Specifics are yet to be considered, but that seems like it could work

[indigo mesa]

oh wait

u smart

that is really smart

[grim hearth]

writing an intellij plugin just for that sounds like too much effort though?

[frigid umbra]

If you then get proper completion and IDE support?

[grim hearth]

but i guess if you really want that code resolution, there's no other way

[frigid umbra]

It doesn't seem like a difficult plugin to implement

[indigo mesa]

I would say very worth it

never made an intellij plugin

how do you add code suggestions?

[frigid umbra]

I've touched IJ plugins when I touched the MCDev plugin

[grim hearth]

suggestions? you'd have to use their psi stuff and create context-sensitive completion providers

[frigid umbra]

Yeah that ^^

It's simple if you know where to hook into

[grim hearth]

it's basically hooking into their resolution logic, kinda convoluted honestly

[grim hearth]

true, just that finding where to hook is usually the hard part :D

[frigid umbra]

So true

[indigo mesa]

this would be an amazing lib

[grim hearth]

yeah could be pretty useful for some peeps

[frigid umbra]

I am 100% going to be on the Java subreddit and presenting the lib once I am done and happy with it, in the hopes it will gain some traction

I can already see that this will take up a bit of time

Would be a waste not to if I already make it a time sink

[indigo mesa]

im sure a ton of people would use it

[grim hearth]

yeah, feels like there's always something new to sink time into with dev stuff lol. but if folks use it, it's worth it

[frigid umbra]

So true

[indigo mesa]

So true

[frigid umbra]

Every time I gain a star on my command lib, I get happy

[grim hearth]

grats on the star, always nice to see people using your stuff

[frigid umbra]

ye thanks, though it hasn't happened in a short while

But that's expected, I am not doing a whole lot to actively advertise it, after all

I mention it here and there when I am working on the project and want to share something about it

But nothing more

[hard mirage]

Star my libraries all of them

Also use them add me to credits in your plugins thx

[frigid umbra]

I think I starred your one inv lib

And I have not yet used it properly

[hard mirage]

I dont think i have any other libs lol

[frigid umbra]

I added it as a dependency to one project, but never got around to continue that project

[grim hearth]

classic lol. build a dependency list a mile long and then ditch the projects

[hard mirage]

I typically dont have many dependencies

Outside of testing

[grim hearth]

living the simple life huh. wish i could relate lol

[frigid umbra]

Me neither, my dependency list is pretty much always just my command lib, sometimes an inventory lib, and rarely luckperms api

If I need database access, obviously I also need to shade like h2 or mariadb drivers

[indigo mesa]

what orm do you usually use? or just raw sql?

[frigid umbra]

hibernate, if it's a bigger project

Though I've been lately more into raw SQL tbh

[grim hearth]

raw sql is based tbh, sometimes it's simpler to just write what you want

[frigid umbra]

I am a huge fan of simplicity

[indigo mesa]

I used to use raw sql

but orms are better

❤️ EBean

[frigid umbra]

That's also how I design all of my libraries, I tend to make them as easy and painless to use as possible

[hard mirage]

I don't have any deps outside of paper on my most recent project not even using My own inventory library yet lol I opted for dialogs this time around

[gray pawn]

bro for me its at least

1. commands
2. configurate
3. jdbi
4. flyway
5. hikaricp
6. inventory framework

[frigid umbra]

For example, back when I still used CommandAPI, it was kinda of a pain to shade and relocate it every time. Like it's not technically a big deal, but it was just a little ick on my side

[hard mirage]

I've never used a command library tbh

[frigid umbra]

A lot of my projects don't even need/have shadowJar

[hard mirage]

I always rolled my own

[frigid umbra]

Missing out

[grim hearth]

relateable. shading and relocating can be annoying af just to get things working right

[hard mirage]

I just use brig now its super powerful so I find no need

[gray pawn]

i used brig before but i will never use it again

annotations are no brainer for me

[hard mirage]

I've never liked annotation based libraries (sorry strokk)

[frigid umbra]

Idk, I like the simplicity of ```java
@Commands("kill miles")
class KillMiles {
@Executes
void execute(@StringArg(GREEDY) String reason) {
Bukkit.getPlayer("Miles").kill(reason);
}
}

[grim hearth]

yeah that does look pretty clean honestly

[hard mirage]

strokk finding time to casually advertise StrokkCommands version 2.1.4 out now give it a star on github for a free hug!

[frigid umbra]

Like the Brgiadier equivalent of that is ```java
Commands.literal("kill")
.then(Commands.literal("miles")
.then(Commands.argument("reason", StringArgType.greedy())
.executes(ctx -> {
Bukkit.getPlayer("Miles").kill(StringArgType.getString("reason", ctx));
return Command.SINGLE_SUCCESS;
})
)
).build()

This took ages to type out lmao

[grim hearth]

brigadier is so verbose man, makes my eyes bleed sometimes lol

[frigid umbra]

I know right

And I wrote the brigadier docs for Paper

lmao

[golden gust]

https://tenor.com/view/forest-sun-rays-calm-gif-23238616

[hard mirage]

I enjoy verbosity its why I use java lol. If I'm trying to get stuff done I just bing out kotlin and just burn through my problems quickly

[frigid umbra]

You can enjoy verbosity and still enjoy convenience

[hard mirage]

is that supposed to be the grass I'm touching instead of talking about programming online

[frigid umbra]

It's not like the code disappears

[frigid umbra]

That's trees

[grim hearth]

tru, code ain't going anywhere

[frigid umbra]

The beauty of APs

[golden gust]

I'd of preferred tumbling through the ceiling of a forest as the gif, but, y'know

[gray pawn]

public interface MemberDao {

    @SqlUpdate("INSERT INTO members (player_id, clan_id, role, joined_at) VALUES (?,?,?,?)")
    void create(UUID memberId, int clanId, ClanRole role, Instant joinedAt);

    @SqlQuery("SELECT cf.* FROM clans_full cf " +
            "INNER JOIN members m ON cf.id = m.clan_id WHERE m.player_id = ?")
    @UseRowReducer(ClanRowReducer.class)
    Optional<Clan> getClanByMemberId(UUID memberId);

    @SqlQuery("SELECT id FROM clans INNER JOIN members m ON clans.id = m.clan_id WHERE m.player_id = ?")
    Optional<Integer> getClanId(UUID memberId);

    default void throwIfAlreadyMember(UUID memberId) {
        getClanId(memberId).ifPresent(id -> {
            throw new AlreadyInClanException(memberId, id);
        });
    }

    @SqlQuery("SELECT * FROM members WHERE player_id=?")
    Optional<ClanMember> getById(UUID memberId);

    @SqlQuery("SELECT * FROM members WHERE clan_id=?")
    List<ClanMember> getMembersByClan(int clanId);


    @SqlUpdate("UPDATE members SET role=:role WHERE player_id=:memberId")
    void updateRole(UUID memberId, ClanRole role);

    @SqlUpdate("DELETE FROM members WHERE player_id=?")
    void remove(UUID memberId);
}

I love annotations man

[golden gust]

POV man tragically dies falling through trees

[hard mirage]

that would be traigc

[grim hearth]

classic jdbi, looking clean though

[frigid umbra]

For example:

• CommandTest.java
• CommandTestBrigadier.java

This is real generated code using my annotation processor

[hard mirage]

Only ORM i've used I didn't make is JPA with springboot

[frigid umbra]

Requirements are not yet in, that's currently on my dev branch, where I am changing things

But otherwise it's complete

[grim hearth]

damn that generated code actually looks way cleaner than standard brigadier

[frigid umbra]

it's still standard brigadier

Wait lemme swtich to current release branch to show a more complex example

[grim hearth]

go on, show us what you got

[frigid umbra]

Oh jesus fucking christ

Oh I have the perfect example

God that's awful

[grim hearth]

welp, you said complex example lol. let's see it

[frigid umbra]

• Source: AdventureArgumentsCommand.java
• Generated: AdventureArgumentsCommandBrigadier.java

Not really complex per se, but awful

[grim hearth]

yeah looking at that generated code context

it actually doesn't look too bad structure wise

[gleaming spear]

[frigid umbra]

Or here's an interesting one:

• Source GameModeCommand
• Generated: GameModeCommandBrigadier

That's actually the example from https://commands.strokkur.net/common/external-subcommands/

[grim hearth]

yeah that's pretty standard for complex commands

looks like it handles args nesting pretty well based on those pastes

[frigid umbra]

This one's also kinda cool:

• Source SmartParamsCommand
• Generated: SmartParamsCommandBrigadier

Last one:

• Source BetterSubCommands
• Generated BetterSubCommandsBrigadier

[gleaming spear]

@frigid umbra have you thought of making an alternative to VaultAPI with all the time you seem to have

[grim hearth]

damn, that's a lot of generated code for parsing params

but I guess it makes brigadier bearable, huh?

[frigid umbra]

Oh you are looking at my src rn?

[frigid umbra]

Unrealistic, it would never get used

Vault API is too wide spread to rid of so easily

[gleaming spear]

If you make it good enough to be embedded into paper

Then create an adapter

[grim hearth]

tru, vault is here to stay

[frigid umbra]

Unrealistic, not even LuckPerms is being embedded, and that's actually a no-brainer for any server out there

[grim hearth]

way too many plugins rely on it

[gleaming spear]

LuckPerms is kinda a bit more than just perms

[frigid umbra]

Sure, but I would consider it even more essential than an economy adapter dependency

[gleaming spear]

It's not the first time I brought the idea up

[grim hearth]

yeah true, luckperms is basically standard everywhere now anyway

[frigid umbra]

There are a lot of cases that need handling, so there's no way around it. For the Paper arguments, I had to completely manually map every single argument type lmao

[gleaming spear]

#paper-dev message
Talked with mini and caf about it

[grim hearth]

manual mapping for all paper args sounds like pain

but satisfying when it works i bet

[frigid umbra]

This gets slightly better with my new AP library, since I don't need to explicitly declare dependencies anymore, but it's still kind of a lot of code for a single arugment type

(that's actually the old variant that's embedded in the update branch too, I only afterwards made it its own library)

The new version is slightly cleaner

[grim hearth]

still better than doing it all by hand again context

glad its cleaner now, good stuff

[frigid umbra]

Yeah certainly

[grim hearth]

still better than doing it all by hand again context

glad its cleaner now, good stuff

[frigid umbra]

With the new library, it's actually massively simpler

[grim hearth]

yeah using an annotation processor for this sounds like the way to go to keep things sane

[frigid umbra]

The library is definitely much more sane than using raw strings

[frigid umbra]

Lol I removed the packages which previously contained my source code mappings/parsing and code gen logic

-4113 lines. Nice

[grim hearth]

damn, deleting that much code always feels satisfying af

good job man

[frigid umbra]

Instead I now have 6k lines of Java code in a separate project, but I count it as a win

[gray pawn]

Lancelot no offense but why u talking like a language model

[twin lagoon]

now that you say it

[grim hearth]

still worth it if it builds and runs better than whatever was there before

[twin lagoon]

what's the seahorse emoji look like

[distant salmon]

their pfp definitely does not look like AI either

[gray pawn]

clankers

[static slate]

i think you crashed them

theyre in an infinite loop now

wasting all their tokens

[true canyon]

Perhaps that, but they're also gone after a ban.

https://tenor.com/sGy9.gif

[naive frigate]

@true canyon will you tell me a bedtime ban story? 🥺

[true canyon]

Once upon a time there was a ban, the end ❤️

-# now go to sleep

[naive frigate]

who was the victim and who was the knight?!

[upper flicker]

[naive frigate]

Z?

YEAH I Know THAT STORY

[upper flicker]

sad story

more of a nightmare really

[twin lagoon]

@upper flicker

[upper flicker]

@twin lagoon

[twin lagoon]

[quiet mesa]

We need a sign for "days since that incident its mentioned"

[upper flicker]

if you can’t do the time, dont do the crime

https://tenor.com/view/times-up-spongebob-jail-prison-sentence-gif-19870488

[true canyon]

I was hoping to avoid a life sentence on this one 🙁

[upper flicker]

[potent fossil]

@warm anchor re: your question the other day about traffic in the wonderful country of the philippines

just spent 2 hours driving 50km because i got stuck in traffic due to some dude spilling his coconuts all over the expressway, causing the authorities to have to begin Operation Coconut Cleanup or whatever bs, plus everyone slowing down to observe the coconuts, plus two people crashed into each other (probably because they were distracted by coconuts)

[warm anchor]

2 HOURS

I would litearlly die

[potent fossil]

about 30 mins there, drop wife off. the coconut disaster happened en route, on the other side of the expressway. so on my way home, i sat in the aftermath for 90 minutes.

moral of the story? strap your fucking coconuts down 😭

[gleaming spear]

plus everyone slowing down to observe the coconuts
they should charge these ppl with fines

[upper flicker]

amazing

[gleaming spear]

da coconut nut is a giant nut, if you eat too much you get very fat now

[vapid fern]

I have a plugin where players can vote in a president, and vote for the file chnages he makes. I wonder how quickly this will go wrong

[cedar plaza]

be me
go to uni for 3 years because companies i applied to kept telling me they look for someone with a degree
3y later, applying and getting rejected
"EYY AYYY, EYY AYYY"

Am 'boutta lose ma mind 👀

[umbral mango]

threadrippers are supposed to be relatively cheap and they are but for a $130 CPU I cant find a decent motherboard under $1.2k

anyone have any advice for building an all-purpose server?

[upper flicker]

if your desired use case is home stuff, or small services, it all goes a lot further than youd expect

if you really want enterprise gear, sometimes you can find it second hand when businesses do their refresh cycles, but true enterprise gear is very loud and annoying

[atomic obsidian]

Hello everyone, I hope you are all well.

One question: what is the difference between the "help" and "dev" channels?

[upper flicker]

the -help channels are intended for end-user assistance, support, "why is my server doing this thing I dont like"

the -dev channels are intended for discussion about plugin development, programming, paper development, etc

[atomic obsidian]

Thank you so much, you've cleared up a doubt I've had since joining the server. 😉

Which channel is the correct one to use for questions about Velocity updates? I need an approximate release date for the "Stable" version so I can plan my schedule.

[umbral mango]

the heaviest thing ill run is probably game servers, but i plan to run a dozen different smaller services like jellyfin and nextcloud and stuff

so I need a lot of threads for multitasking, good single threaded performance for games, and a lot of storage

[upper flicker]

jellyfin is pretty light as long as you arent doing too much transcoding, and if you are its better to offload it to gpu

[umbral mango]

ive got a 2060 laying around i can use as a gpu

[upper flicker]

nextcloud Ive heard is a bit of a bear

[umbral mango]

so thats free

[upper flicker]

have you compared the higher end ryzen chips as well? 9950, 7950, 5950, etc? you will have substantially lower platform costs

[umbral mango]

yeah I think the heaviest part is its AI search but the 2060 is more than capable of handling that, the other bottlleneck I imagine would be syncing gigabytes of data on peoples photo galleries, taking a lot of the network bandwidth and storage but you can get HDDs for cheap

[upper flicker]

depending on what youre trying to do, you may be able to split that into two separate boxes as well for less

I seem to recall threadripper always having pretty high platform costs, unless you can find something second hand. Sort of the nature of the beast

may still be worth it, but may be other solutions

[umbral mango]

I am basically trying to build a home server that can handle multiple videogame servers for my friends simultaneously, and also other small services like nextcloud for family and friends, I just wanna build a beastly server so I dont need to worry about things anymore

[worthy geode]

Velocity has supported 26.1 since day one. There are no stable/beta builds for Velocity, there is nothing to wait

[umbral mango]

I thought I could do it around maybe $800 but I could afford maybe like $1.4k tops if things are more expensive

[upper flicker]

I think thats going to be a bit of a squeeze for threadripper by the time you add RAM and disks

but who knows, may luck into a good deal second hand

[atomic obsidian]

So is it "100%" safe to use the latest Snapshot?

[umbral mango]

my plan was a 6TB HDD which you can get for around $30, which is cheap, aswell as a 1-2TB NVMe for a performance drive, for data that needs to be read/wrote fast but I am thinking now maybe get a SATA SSD as a main drive, 512GB-1TB, then a 6TB HDD for the secondary drive for slow data, and maybe in the future an NVMe

RAM is also very upgradable in the future

[upper flicker]

if you didnt have the game server requirement, you could save quite a bit

[pale river]

6 TB for $30? have you looked at prices in the past year

[upper flicker]

but game servers famously love their single thread, and usually arent great anyway

[umbral mango]

HDDs havent been affected by AI very much I dont think

[upper flicker]

I run 15 VMs on a 3800X, 4 TB nvme, and 64 GB of RAM and that box is still barely utilized

it all goes further than youd think

[pale river]

ai has affected older cpu prices, memory prices, hard drive prices, gpus

fortunately cases and power supplies seem unaffected by ai

[umbral mango]

this CPU is more than good enough for my requirements

it'd be able to handle the heaviest minecraft mods to a dozen players or so which is about as heavy as single threaded game servers get

[upper flicker]

make sure youre checking compatibility with threadripper pro for your platform

[umbral mango]

(well unless you want more than a dozen players but I probably will not have over 20 especially on a heavy game)

[upper flicker]

threadripper and threadripper pro are very similar but not the same

[umbral mango]

man I wish i copped this I cant find the listing anymore

[upper flicker]

I think they were compatible but ehhh

threadripper pro was a weirder even more limited SKU

[worthy geode]

I mean Velocity doesn't story any data or anything you could loose anyways. don't need to be as careful as with Paper builds there.
Nothing is ever 100% safe

[atomic obsidian]

Thank you so much, I appreciate your help and patience

[kind vapor]

If anyone is interested in this, the PR that took the longest to merge is 7305, taking 994.3 days, while the fastest merged PR is 4, which took only 4 seconds
The issue that took the longest time to be closed is 330, 2880 days, 6014 the shortest, 2 seconds

[upper flicker]

based

[umbral mango]

maybe it was $60 a few years ago but your right its more like $90-$120 now

[carmine urchin]

330 kinda isn't closed but converted to discussion

Also kinda interesting if you could see longest time until a pull request was closed without merge

[chilly night]

Hi

[ancient bolt]

Trying to decide if I really need my linux partition still. I think the answer is no, but I've always had linux as my productivity OS it feels weird deleting it

But now I use macos for all my productivity stuff and only use Windows for gaming

[magic river]

Giving up on being productive and just going to watch anime all day?

[ancient bolt]

Nah macos is just way more productive than all the shitty linux DEs lol

[worthy geode]

there is an above-average amount of linux users who are also weebs. so the anime experience there must be better clearly

[ancient bolt]

Not to mention it just works and I don't have to fight with it any time I want to do something new. Or whenever I want to do something that used to always work but now just doesn't because some random package updated and now everything is incompatible

[elfin adder]

i made a server but when i join it, it says encrypting and disconnects

[magic river]

On the other hand I've been awfully annoyed lately with random shit on macOS burning up CPU time

[elfin adder]

can anyone help

[graceful wyvern]

i wanna do a linux run again but i have the same feelings, theres nothing that really pulls me away from my macbook experience wise, even with it being a m1 max, everything really just gels

[magic river]

duetexpertd needs to die

[novel sonnet]

VMs

[worthy geode]

#paper-help and please don't cross-post

[ancient bolt]

Luckily I haven't had this problem too much, but I know what you're talking about

[magic river]

That's not the only one either

[graceful wyvern]

vms i wont use lmao, ill open it once and go "this looks nice" and then thatll be it

[magic river]

bztransmit is my own fault... actually...

[graceful wyvern]

it wont work unless i have reason to commit

[ancient bolt]

I do think virtualization is so good that a VM will be more than adequate for anything I need. It works fine when I'm on my mac

[novel sonnet]

I like to just use KVM myself

Pretty native performance

And pretty lightweight-

[ancient bolt]

At this point my linux servers are the only linux machines in the house I regularly use

[magic river]

I wish someone would come up with a sane vagrant plugin for macOS, even if I also have to jump through the extra hoops of getting an arm64 compatible VM now too

[ancient bolt]

It's sad once you put a DE on linux it's just not good

[ancient bolt]

What do you mean by this? For work our dev VM is managed by vagrant + parallels, it works pretty good

[magic river]

Hmm, not sure if I tried parallels but vmware was ass

I got qemu to work but holy shit did that take a month

[graceful wyvern]

i got u https://github.com/EVV1E/waylandcraft

[ancient bolt]

Burn it

[potent fossil]

With a chemical fire

[magic river]

TIL https://naveenrajm7.github.io/vagrant_utm/

[worthy geode]

someone should make that a plugin, using maps

so we can run Wayland on Paper

[ancient bolt]

Yeah utm is the next best thing after parallels

[magic river]

When I went to hunt this down that wasn't an option

There was an open issue about things UTM would need to do for it to be possible that seemed stalled

[novel sonnet]

How do you even run it without a DE?

[ancient bolt]

run the minecraft client as your DE command

[novel sonnet]

Dont you have to get in a singleplayer world first?/

quickplay or smth?

[ancient bolt]

only if you want to open any windows

[novel sonnet]

ig

[rigid kiln]

Everytime MC updates and it needs a new java version that I havent installed yet im like aaaaah

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-pepehands-crying-gif-12683546

[hasty jay]

well this happens like every four years with a new LTS version of java, so... :D

[gleaming spear]

Doesn't LTS not exist anymore and is just an enterprise/vendor thingy?

[next frost]

it always was a vendor thing

but in reality most vendors just do the same and depend on openjdk contributors keeping a specific version updated

[sharp sentinel]

there are two releases per year, so it’s every 2 years 🙂

which means next one (Java 29) is releasing end of next year, probs ending up in the first 2028 MC update

am very keen for Java 29 as i’m hoping it has lazy constant out of preview

[next frost]

I still don't like the concept of making that a library feature rather than a language feature

[sharp sentinel]

idk i feel it works fine

and it seems to be backed by a vm feature anyway right?

[next frost]

I can achieve the same already (in theory, but I think there's a JVM bug...)

[sharp sentinel]

i feel the way they’re doing it is more java-esque

eh iirc it’s not perfectly replicable

like the one they’re adding has much better optimisation potential

[next frost]

the potential is the same as with MutableCallSite

[sharp sentinel]

maybe the thing i read was a future change rather than part of it — but it used some internal features, and potentially a new vm one, to allow better optimisation than userland code

but very possible that was a long term goal rather than immediate

[next frost]

it uses the internal @Stable annotation, but that just allows constant folding when observing a non-default value

call sites also allow constant folding with deoptimization when the field is updated

[sharp sentinel]

i feel like i am thinking of the new vm feature that i read about, but unsure what that is / if it's even part of this change

[next frost]

I guess in many cases you probably want Make Final Mean FInal to actually see benefits

[sharp sentinel]

iirc part of it was that this class was exempt from the fake final stuff so it would've benefited immediately – but maybe that didn't make it in

but my memory is foggy and i'm hella unwell atm in general so might be wrong

[kind vapor]

5004, 1538 days

[kind vapor]

then 1328, 2715 days

[crystal surge]

claude code vs codex vs cursor 20$?

[vocal turret]

Claude

[rose knot]

claude

[crystal surge]

ok 🤔

I’m curious, under the $20 Claude Pro plan, how many tokens do I actually get? I’m currently on GitHub Copilot Pro, and based on my math, I burn through about $60 worth of tokens every month.

[sharp sentinel]

unpopular opinion, but i really hate claude code lol

[twin lagoon]

if you're looking for the best bang for buck, probably codex

otherwise claude

[sharp sentinel]

i've only used it & GH Copilot, and copilot works so so much better

not talking about the models, just the harness

[rose knot]

microsoft employee sent to spread copilot propaganda

[twin lagoon]

copilot is awful, pi.dev is a good alternative for claude code

[sharp sentinel]

i mean work pays for both lol, so i use both at work

[twin lagoon]

i think cc works fine though i only use pi.dev for non-claude models

[rose knot]

tbf ive never actually used claude code, only web opus
never really got fully into integrated ai

[twin lagoon]

it's a good time saver in 2026

[sharp sentinel]

which model works best changes a lot over time, as they kind of leapfrog each other, and different ones are better for different things

Opus 4.7 was good, then GPT 5.5 came out, etc

[rose knot]

i did try gpt 5.5 and still found opus 4.7 alot.... smarter

[sharp sentinel]

ime Opus 4.7 is really overtuned to very weird things

[rose knot]

to this day gpt just seems to suck compared to gemini and claude

i do really like gemini actually, but it just loves to over-explain (and also their website bricks itself so much)

[sharp sentinel]

like Opus 4.7 keeps implementing bad designs, adding comments about the problems in the implementatio, ripping bad bits out, and then leaving the code with a very weirdly engineered solution because it was intended for a way that it itself then ripped out (rather than just implementing it a straightforward way)

and Opus 4.7 for code review has expectedly the same sorts of issues. leaving comments like "If this code did X it'd be bad" – like it just entirely hallucinates the bad solutions it comes up with and just assumes you did that (when you didn't)

like it's so overtuned to find bad solutions that its initial implementation generates them, and it's all it can think of to the point it hallucinates them during code reviews

[crystal surge]

😮

[rose knot]

oh yeah i have noticed quite a bit of that
like i asked it to fix an issue, gave it everything it needed to know to fix it, and it got stuck trying to fix something unrelated (that wasnt even broken)

[sharp sentinel]

i did not notice this issue in Opus 4.6 fwiw; seems to be new to 4.7

[rose knot]

i do actually think sonnet is slept on for code

[sharp sentinel]

i mean, 4.6 had its own issues – but i find 4.7 actively unusable due to this issue, especially for code review

[rose knot]

its very good for a free model

[sharp sentinel]

i do not use this stuff for anything personal, so my experiences are purely around enterprise usage where it's paid for; and i'm on a team that's semi expected to evaluate these systems for wider org usage

so ofc cannot comment on costs/etc

[rose knot]

yeah i havent had that experience personally, but my dad has (very different sector as hes a lawyer) but he said that most people prefer claude

they had to evaluate claude, gpt, gemini and copilot

[sharp sentinel]

and fwiw here, i always separate the harness & model

like this IME is an issue with Opus 4.7 as a model, not the harnesses

i have other issues with claude code lol, like the fact that when it hits issues its default is to just spin up another agent to fix the issue, leading to ridiculous token waste

[rose knot]

ive been told claude code is super nice to work with (irrespective of the model) but as i said, ive got very limited personal experience with that

[rose knot]

gradle moment

[sharp sentinel]

idk what gradle has to do with that lol

[rose knot]

resource waste

[sharp sentinel]

the specific instance i am thinking of is on another magnitude of resource waste lol

like, close to a million tokens kind of waste

[rose knot]

yikes

have you ever tried hooking up whatever your doing with ai into wakatime, im not too sure of the extent of what it does but it appears they have some sort of agent hook

[sharp sentinel]

i only use it for work stuff, so i'm limited by what's actually allowed / passes compliance checks

[rose knot]

fair

[crystal surge]

What models do you guys usually run with Claude Code or Codex? Do you plug in any other tools? 🤔

[sharp sentinel]

in general i'm a fairly cautious user of AI agents, as unlike a lot of people it seems i believe that anything i am pushing i am responsible for – so i review all output etc

[crystal surge]

btw my github copilot usage

[sharp sentinel]

GPT 5.5 atm is the best from my testing/evaluation for most usecases

[rose knot]

how the hell does upgrading reduce the bill cost, thats gotta be some smart wording to get you to spend more

[twin lagoon]

these subscriptions subsidize a lot of the cost

[sharp sentinel]

can't comment in this context – but a lot of the time it's because higher plans have more included usage, so paying more as a base means paying less overusage fees (which are usually a lot more)

[rose knot]

ah so sub vs token billing and them hoping you use less than your sub

[carmine urchin]

Even now he pays 10$ per month but he gets 15$ worth of credits, upgrading would do similar increase

[sharp sentinel]

the tradeoff comes in based on how reliably you're using it. eg, if you use a consistent amount monthly, higher plans with more inbuilt usage are better

if you use it sporadically, lower plans with overuse fees can be better long term

[chilly night]

Hi Guys! Do Anyone Know The Plugin That Change Text Here?

Example: Like This

[twin lagoon]

f3name

[chilly night]

Well... Let's See

[rose knot]

yeah ok that makes sense

bit a random question to throw out there, but thought i may aswell get some more input

(i am open to using something like clickhouse if thats a better route for what we are trying to do)

[sharp sentinel]

imo year heavily limits what you can do with the data long-term

doing it better would require more storage, so really depends on your needs

it might be worth just using an existing system like clickhouse if you want to do anything fancier

like it'd be cool to pull out "you were more likely to do X at this time of day"; "X month was your busiest for Y task"; etc

and your current model is incapable of providing that

[chilly night]

Actually... I Will Just Leave It Like That Cuz... Most F3Name Plugin Was Really Outdated

[twin lagoon]

just because a plugin is outdated doesn't mean it doesn't work

[rose knot]

yeah thats why i was thinking influx as we already use it for grafana stuff

but afaik influx is not really great storage wise

[twin lagoon]

influx is garbage in general

[rose knot]

do not insult my baby like that
yes it uses all your resources and yes its slow as shit, but i love my influx

[twin lagoon]

that query language is awful

[rose knot]

its not THAT bad

i personally think its super easy to use

[chilly night]

I Use The Most Powerful Classic Way To Run My Server :P

[rose knot]

realistically, what would you use instead of influx for this situation? timescale?

[twin lagoon]

would just use clickhouse

easy and safe choice

[rose knot]

you raise a good point

we semi-recently started using clickhouse for coreprotect and its insanely good

originally my main reason for using influx was its super nice java/kotlin api

[twin lagoon]

anything e.g. short term timescale stuff, prometheus through victoriametrics

long term clickhouse

[gleaming spear]

victoriametrics and grafana alloy my beloved

what is the current state between victorialogs vs loki? or is loki fine

[twin lagoon]

vlogs works fine

the grafana plugin has matured nicely

[rose knot]

ive heard alot bout victoria metrics but it just seems stupid to a pull pattern instead of a push pattern

[native grove]

What even is clickhouse and influx

[gleaming spear]

yeah, but does it work with loki remote write?

[rose knot]

considering this is how we use influx rn

[twin lagoon]

wouldn't be surprised if it does but idk

[chilly night]

"Really Outdated"

[twin lagoon]

there is a place for both patterns

[twin lagoon]

my guy i run plugins from 2015

try it and see, it might just work

[gleaming spear]

why did you use vlogs even? I see the allure in vmetrics tho, kinda goated

[twin lagoon]

loki slow

[gleaming spear]

wow

[chilly night]

Let's Try

[rose knot]

f3 packet hasnt changed since like 1.13

[chilly night]

Lucky

[twin lagoon]

prometheus is great because most things support it out of the box or have an exporter for it as it's just a simple http server that you scrape

but i wouldn't use it for anything beyond monitoring, sounds like you're using influx as a generic timescale database

[rose knot]

yeah we use influx for a ton

metrics and logging mainly

[twin lagoon]

in which case it's fine but i'd have chosen clickhouse or questdb as a more direct influx alternative

[chilly night]

Yea... Let's See Did It Will Work

[rose knot]

well right now is probs gonna be our best time to switch for a long time so ill look into how much work clickhouse will be

[twin lagoon]

i'd realistically use a combination of two

[rose knot]

is there any incentive to use questdb over clickhouse or is it just another option

[twin lagoon]

you could use clickhouse for everything but re-inventing the wheel for e.g. storing tps for a server is stupid when you can just use existing stuff like unifiedmetrics and get a prometheus endpoint

[twin lagoon]

no it's just a good replacement for influxdb 1 since it's faster and retains a sql query language

[rose knot]

🤷 we already have that stuff baked into our commons so mayaswell move our entire metrics library over

but circling back to my original question, deffo clickhouse over mongo with a year scope for player stats

[twin lagoon]

yes

[chilly night]

Ok... I Think I Really Need To Study MiniMessages Now

[rose knot]

danke schon

[rose knot]

thats just a list of stages in an animation

the minimessage part of it is really simple

[chilly night]

"I Know Only How To &6&l" 💀

[rose knot]

&6&lHello = <gold><b>Hello</b></gold>

[kindred quiver]

everytime i see this, i thought i suddenly had to re-learn HTML all over again.

[rose knot]

much simpler than legacy shit

[chilly night]

It's Only Simple If I Have This Installed

[rose knot]

and since i will not stand for manually writing schemas and queries because im a weirdo and i hate structure (i use kotlin you should expect this) i need to figure out a clickhouse ODM

[twin lagoon]

you should absolutely design your own schema

there is a bit more to it than just auto generating a schema and hoping for the best in clickhouse

even the order of the columns matter

[rose knot]

the object IS the schema
ill have some annotations for the partitioning stuff and what not

my goal is to have a stats system where any other system can just start tracking its owns stats with a few lines

i have that idea everywhere else in our data (player data for scale)

[chilly night]

As I Said... "Really Outdated"

[timber sentinel]

maybe it's because you're using offline mode

[rose knot]

google also fixes that issue with the same google search btw

[chilly night]

Look At Versions.... There Are No Velocity

[twin lagoon]

then run it on the server

[chilly night]

https://klipy.com/gifs/emotional-damage-19

[twin lagoon]

or https://modrinth.com/plugin/vcustombrand

[rose knot]

or, heres another idea. dont remove credits (just forwarding what i was told in a pr to add an event for the server brand lol)

[vocal turret]

never understood people who download a free product, contribute nothing and then want to display it as their own work

[chilly night]

I Think Him Are Creator Of More Than 75% Of Velocity Plugin

[rose knot]

also a contributor of a lot of velocity itself

[twin lagoon]

yeah i don't get rebranding it unnecessarily either

[chilly night]

ViaFabricPlus Still Show A Brand Cuz Yea... This Only Edit In The Game

[rose knot]

security by obscurity

yeah i dont think there is really any valid reason to change the server brand, we do it for a quite frankly stupid reason but alas

[chilly night]

Ok... Just Test Again Real Quick

[kind vapor]

Hide Easter eggs in it the first found it will get 500000 dollars

[chilly night]

Ok... I Gonna Install This On My Server Later...

[lilac comet]

Apple moment: you can see there are events for any time but you can only view details and edit them up to one year back 💀

(if I click on any date it puts me to May 2024)

[sharp sentinel]

that feels like it's a limitation of your calendar provider tbh

i check events from many years prior (like decade ago too) all the time

[eager junco]

hello, do you have any idea if I can make the sprite display on bedrock editon [geyser]?

[true canyon]

That's a great question for the geyser folks. This is the Paper server where we support Paper, which supports Java edition players.

[true canyon]

You don't need to give them more attention

[lilac comet]

I've found out how to access these events: switch from list view (for details) to single or multi day. Because you've got to find out through trial and error that the default(?) calendar view only goes back a year :P
A bit weird though that it attempts to open older events in that incompatible details view...

[sharp sentinel]

nah the default view is fine; it might be a different load pathway or something with your calendar provider

[austere ivy]

after using apple calendar all this time, do you find it works well enough for you?

kinda have been considering switching away for better task management (since showing reminders on calendars is all-or-none and i really dislike that)

[sharp sentinel]

one i looked for the other day so knew would work (although it lacked the info i actually wanted lol, so not sure if that’s a bug or i didn’t add it)

i personally find it perfectly fine

does everything i need

[austere ivy]

but idk it’s been working well enough for events

hmm ok

[sharp sentinel]

out of curiosity how are you using reminders where time sensitive ones aren’t wanted in the calendar?

if i’m setting a reminder with a time usually it’s because it’s a task i need to do; like tomorrow morning i need to ring a doctor’s rooms so i’ve added it in at 10am on my calendar (as that’s post-work-meetings)

[austere ivy]

i use reminders for daily or weekly recurring tasks, like taking meds or watering plants

it’s convenient to open my “today” list and see everything on my agenda (including chores), and it helps me not forget anything since i’ll review the list at the end of every day

however, in calendar view, regular reminders just clutter up important one-off tasks, and there’s no way to exclude some lists from the calendar

also plz feel free to ping reply ^-^ i often miss replies if not

[golden gust]

I am generally just organised chaos

which really just means I'm disorganised af but somehow manage to survive

[austere ivy]

that works too but i’m trying to get better :’)

[golden gust]

I did just buy a new mechanical pencil and a jot pad for my desk to replace the 200 todo txt files; heres to hoping this doesn't become a new craze for me

[austere ivy]

<— mr chronic procrastinator and forgets everything here needs a little nudge in the doing things direction

[austere ivy]

oh nice cool, for me personally i actually switched the other way from notepads to obsidian (basically txt) files cuz i amassed a tremendously large stack of random notes that i had to go thru

but whatever works for you fr

[sharp sentinel]

fair, see i’d want it to show all of that anyway

[golden gust]

I wanted to like obsidian, but it felt like there was a huge gap between "installed obsidian" and actually integrating it well into my life, especially as I was flat broke at the time and didn't really want to pay them

[austere ivy]

yeah i get that, i think my issue was that since the weekly/monthly view only shows so many reminders, the daily stuff would completely cut off the truly important, time critical stuff, making that view less than useless

[gleaming spear]

A major blocker I found for my using Obsidian, is having a sync and secure storage of it

[austere ivy]

hmm yeah, tbh i just use it as a glorified text editor that syncs well between my phone and laptop. people’s setups can be crazy cool, but idk that any of that would actually help me

[austere ivy]

obsidian sync?

[gleaming spear]

Self hosting

My raspi will have 10 apps running on it

I hope it survives

[golden gust]

I was trying to use git sync and it was just, unstable, especially when I switched to using a key with a password

[gleaming spear]

Yes, this is why I stoped using it

Also... where to git it to? Github?

[golden gust]

github is where i picked, free private repos, etc; but I was using GPG to encrypt some of the more private stuff, just was another headache though

[gleaming spear]

yes, so I thought about using syncthing and my raspi

[potent fossil]

obsidian, notion, marvin, habitica, etc. all great, wonderful tools in theory

the problem is, my adhd ass has to actually use them

:^)

i get them all setup, go to bed, and then proceed to never touch them again until i'm searching my pc one day and see them and go "oh yeah"

then i set them all up again and go to bed

[golden gust]

yeeeaaaa, I mean, that's it

[gleaming spear]

I really really am angry about my past me for not getting a bigger SSD for my raspi to store stuff on

[golden gust]

I spend so long trying to figure out how to use them that I keep telling my stupid ass that I'll remember it, and so I never note it down, or I just vim todo.txt; oh, that already exists; vim subject-todo.txt; perfect, and then I never open it again

[gleaming spear]

to be able to use it, you need to feel the need to actually write stuff down

some ppl at work have like a notepad++ note open with their todos

[golden gust]

Yea, and that's the problem with ADHD

ADHD is like one of the biggest gaslighters in existence

[gleaming spear]

I doubt I have ADHD, I'm just lazy

[potent fossil]

i just keep everything in my head until i eventually break down, it's been on that loop since I was like 12