folia-help

[spring patio]

How many threads?

[fair merlin]

Run again with /spark profile --thread *

I sent you the wrong command

[spring patio]

ok

[fair merlin]

No s at the end of thread.

[spring patio]

I write this command and it gives me a list of spark commands

[arctic tapir]

profile start

or profiler

[spring patio]

https://spark.lucko.me/pv6ueUPmvW

[viral stone]

nope

[daring nimbus]

hmm. that also didn't seem to have worked, theres only one thread in the report

[spring patio]

/spark profiler start --thread *

[daring nimbus]

yeah thats correct. maybe it doesn't work in the Folia build? never tried it

[fair merlin]

/spark profiler start --thread * Yeah that's the command

Didn't work?

[spring patio]

Well I write this command and it says it's running

[fair merlin]

You're not using a VPS or a docker container or anything are you? It's a bare metal Debian install on the 7950X?

[spring patio]

Yes

I also allocate 100 GB of RAM to the server

[fair merlin]

Kinda hard to see/debug without seeing the threads.

Hmm

[arctic tapir]

can g1c1 handle that much ram?

[viral stone]

I mean, idk what that gen thing is

but my guess is that the gen system is just saturated

[spring patio]

I also tried to allocate less and had the same problem. The only problem I have with Folia now is the generation of the chunks

[viral stone]

prevent people from moving for a minute and see if the chunk system catches up 😄

but, idk, other people aren't reporting this issue, it's well documented that pregen is pretty much essential too

all the info I'd need and sus factors are unanswered so 🤷‍♂️

[daring nimbus]

I remember doing tests with 250 bots and about the same gen rate on much weaker hardware, bit weird that it now suddenly locks up so much

[spring patio]

How can I make a pregen 30 million blocks? I just don't have enough memory

[viral stone]

you don't need to pregen 30 million blocks

you just need to pregen enough that not everybody is generating chunks as they move around

[daring nimbus]

also, do you really need a world seven times larger than the earth?

[spring patio]

On my server, players move all over the map and far enough away from the spawn

[fair merlin]

Are the bots all moving around right now trying to generate chunks?

Or just you?

[spring patio]

The bots are standing still

[fair merlin]

And with them standing still for a bit, like 10-15min or so, you still can't generate new chunks?

Just you, not all the bots.

[spring patio]

I can, but it requires a long wait and if they were players, they simply would not be able to move around the server after the reboot

[fair merlin]

If the server reboots they'll be standing in an area where chunks are generated.

So the server doesn't need to generate new chunks for all of them.

If you have 150 players and all of them fly around trying to generate chunks that's definnitely gonna make stuff unhappy.

Are the bots walking or flying?

[spring patio]

They don't fly and they don't walk

[fair merlin]

You start the server, have bots join, they teleport to one spot, and then they just stand there and do nothing?

[spring patio]

They are scattered randomly across the map in a radius of 100,000 blocks

[fair merlin]

Just once? Or continually?

[spring patio]

Once

[viral stone]

keep looking at the gen rate thing

like, I'm placing bets that you just saturated the system

[spring patio]

Now I'm alone on the server and the gen rate is 300

[fair merlin]

Yeah, part of the issue with using bots as a test.

Real players talk, not teleport.

Then when they get there and logout, they're on chunks that are generated. So when they login again they aren't going to new areas.

They aren't generating new chunks, just loading existing ones.

[viral stone]

keep watching it

[fair merlin]

So if you gave 150 bots join and teleport at the same time you're basically hosing the system.

[viral stone]

idk how the system handles cancelling existing chunk gen requests, theres a chance it doesn't too well, idk

see if it drops over time and shit loads in

or, try restarting the server and walking around lone

[spring patio]

It's not getting any smaller

[haughty gale]

y not pregen

[fair merlin]

They've said several times.

It's too large of a map.

(For them)

[spring patio]

I made a pregen map of 10 thousand blocks and spawn there bots, but the problem remained

[vernal wyvern]

not again this bug

[fair merlin]

If nothing else you should update. You're a few commits behind.

[vernal wyvern]

yea the lastest 💀

from version 1.19.4

[fair merlin]

Oh.

[vernal wyvern]

if i open for 10 time

6 time it closed for that bug

now 1.20.1

2 times

💀

tps should be fine but i hate the bug

[fair merlin]

The 1.20.1 build you're on isn't the most recent commit.

You should try to update.

[vernal wyvern]

alr

[fair merlin]

That's code from last week.

[vernal wyvern]

what you mean

[fair merlin]

Your build does not have the most recent code.

You need to update.

[vernal wyvern]

hmmm what you mean recent code

[fair merlin]

From the Folia repo.

[vernal wyvern]

does the lastest commit have any change?

[fair merlin]

Well your build doesn't have the latest code, so yes, there are changes.

[vernal wyvern]

hmmm there a changes to tps?

bruh

[livid crag]

I dont understand your question

[vernal wyvern]

Nevermind that, it's just some of my unusual questions

[unkempt aurora]

good gaming chair

[fair merlin]

Don’t shitpost in help channels please.

[unkempt aurora]

sorry

[calm fable]

anyone know why when i try to run a gradlew build i get a 261 byte jar file?

[jagged ether]

Read the Paper's README

build task does not build the server jar

[calm fable]

i get errors when running gradlew applypatches

Task :getPaperUpstreamData FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

[scenic sky]

im pretty sure that isnt the entire error

[calm fable]

would you like a paste of the stacktrace

?

[haughty gale]

[10:32:15 ERROR]: [io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler] Region #467 centered at chunk [218, -831] in world 'world' failed to tick:
net.minecraft.ReportedException: Exception ticking world
        at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickChildren(MinecraftServer.java:1695) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at net.minecraft.server.dedicated.DedicatedServer.tickChildren(DedicatedServer.java:447) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickServer(MinecraftServer.java:1533) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegions$ConcreteRegionTickHandle.tickRegion(TickRegions.java:360) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$RegionScheduleHandle.runTick(TickRegionScheduler.java:385) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"
]
        at ca.spottedleaf.concurrentutil.scheduler.SchedulerThreadPool$TickThreadRunner.run(SchedulerThreadPool.java:525) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:833) ~[?:?]
Caused by: java.lang.NullPointerException: Cannot invoke "net.minecraft.world.entity.Entity.dH()" because "entity" is null
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.entity.EntityLookup.getEntityStatus(EntityLookup.java:375) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.world.ChunkEntitySlices.updateStatus(ChunkEntitySlices.java:191) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:?]
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.entity.EntityLookup.chunkStatusChange(EntityLookup.java:316) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.scheduling.NewChunkHolder.changeEntityChunkStatus(NewChunkHolder.java:1263) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.scheduling.NewChunkHolder.handleFullStatusChange(NewChunkHolder.java:1372) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.scheduling.ChunkHolderManager.processPendingFullUpdate(ChunkHolderManager.java:1543) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978
f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.scheduling.ChunkHolderManager.processTicketUpdates(ChunkHolderManager.java:1521) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.scheduling.ChunkHolderManager.processTicketUpdates(ChunkHolderManager.java:1474) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at io.papermc.paper.chunk.system.scheduling.ChunkHolderManager.tick(ChunkHolderManager.java:905) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        at net.minecraft.server.level.DistanceManager.purgeStaleTickets(DistanceManager.java:63) ~[?:?]
        at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerChunkCache.tick(ServerChunkCache.java:442) ~[?:?]
        at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerLevel.tick(ServerLevel.java:793) ~[?:?]
        at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickChildren(MinecraftServer.java:1676) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"6b978f2"]
        ... 6 more

anyone know why this would happen?

[calm fable]

https://controlc.com/22cd6230 this is a paste of the stacktrace

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[prime juniper]

Oops

[haughty gale]

happens on paper too

bros it keeps crashing randomly

there's no plugins in the stack trace just minecraft and folia

no plugins complaining before the crash

is it better if i make a github issue?

latest folia commit 6b978f2

[haughty gale]

made an issue https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/126

i went back to commit 801cff1 instead of latest to see if that stops the crashes

[haughty gale]

seams to have fixed it?

[sudden tusk]

I assume you're joking.

A pi can barely run a regular paper server let alone the additional demands folia has.

[viral coral]

folia is not your solution

your raspberry pi is your issue

[bleak python]

yes, a pi can barely handle the demands of a minecraft server, folia has extra requirements on top of that to function okay-ish at a minimum

software is not going to fix hardware limitations

[sudden tusk]

Folia demands more not less. It spreads load while also contributing to more overall load.

Also we are going to blame a Pi because it's a super awesome device for much lower demands, not something as intense as a MC server

[calm fable]

getting this error when attempting to build folia

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @calm fable: https://pastes.dev/gW697Dsh3D

[calm fable]

could some kind soul please direct me as to how to proceed

[viral stone]

line 120

read

[onyx frigate]

I was trying to build Folia, but after i ran "./gradlew applyPatches", it went wrong

• What went wrong:
  Execution failed for task ':clonePaperRepo'.

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false fetch --depth 1 origin a226f44b452c8c75ca077b492ba4a957629ba489

I m sure i can connect to Github

I try the method from https://github.com/PaperMC/paperweight/issues/50

But it still doesnt work

[timid grotto]

assuming you are on windows, you should clone the repo in the root of a drive

[onyx frigate]

thanks

[vernal wyvern]

💀

bro wtf

why there even a ip

[onyx frigate]

bruh i cloned again from github to C:\ but it crashed again

• What went wrong:
  Execution failed for task ':clonePaperRepo'.

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false fetch --depth 1 origin a226f44b452c8c75ca077b492ba4a957629ba489

[timid grotto]

send the full output

[onyx frigate]

PS C:\Folia> .\gradlew applyPatches

Task :clonePaperRepo FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

• What went wrong:
  Execution failed for task ':clonePaperRepo'.

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false fetch --depth 1 origin a226f44b452c8c75ca077b492ba4a957629ba489

• Try:

Run with --stacktrace option to get the stack trace.
Run with --info or --debug option to get more log output.
Run with --scan to get full insights.

• Get more help at https://help.gradle.org

BUILD FAILED in 21s
1 actionable task: 1 executed

[onyx frigate]

Also my former 1.19.4 Folia is running on my server with 16 cores and 20GB but it crashes every 30 minutes. I havent changed Paper config. Should i just updated it to the latest version of Folia or configure something without updating?

( it crashes without any error.. )

[daring nimbus]

1.19.4 had some crash issues that are fixed now

[onyx frigate]

it sounds great, but now i cant build Folia 😦

[haughty gale]

nvm happens on latest folia commit and that old one

[calm fable]

anyone know whats causing all these missing symbol errors, apologies for my ignorance.

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @calm fable: https://pastes.dev/qrV7ttCcpb

[daring nimbus]

Looks like API patches not applied to me

make sure they applied correctly

[calm fable]

ok thank you!

@daring nimbus i cant seem to find that in the documentation is that just gradlew applyapipatches?

[bleak python]

applyPatches

make sure you don't have an ide open or anything like that, just run that on the terminal alone

[calm fable]

i have done that

it still errors

let me try a fresh clone

Task applyServerPatches
Auto packing the repository in background for optimum performance.
See "git help gc" for manual housekeeping.

Task :applyApiPatches
Creating Folia-API from patch source...
Applying patches to Folia-API...
...
Patches applied cleanly to Folia-API

Task :applyServerPatches
Creating Folia-Server from patch source...
Importing 25 classes from vanilla...
Importing 0 classes from library sources...
Applying patches to Folia-Server...
Applying: Build changes
Applying: MC-Dev fixes
Applying: Threaded Regions
Applying: Max pending logins
Applying: Add chunk system throughput counters to /tps
Applying: Make CraftEntity#getHandle and overrides perform thread checks
Applying: Disable mid-tick task execution
Applying: Throw UnsupportedOperationException() for broken APIs
Applying: Fix tests by removing them
Applying: Work around https://github.com/PaperMC/paperweight/issues/194
Applying: Require plugins to be explicitly marked as Folia supported
Applying: Lag compensate block breaking
Applying: Prevent block updates in non-loaded or non-owned chunks
Applying: Block reading in-world tile entities on worldgen threads
Applying: Skip worldstate access when waking players up during data deserialization
Applying: Do not access POI data for lodestone compass
Applying: Synchronize PaperPermissionManager
Applying: Fix off region raid heroes
Applying: Remove unused skyLightSources
Applying: fixup! Rewrite chunk system
Applying: Do not read tile entities in chunks that are positioned outside of the chunk
Applying: fixup! Rewrite chunk system
Applying: Sync vehicle position to player position on player data load
Patches applied cleanly to Folia-Server

BUILD SUCCESSFUL in 36s
4 actionable tasks: 4 executed

ok worked that time!

sigh java -Xms32000M -Xmx50000M -jar ./server.jar  1 ✘  samos@rabbitng
Error: Unable to initialize main class org.bukkit.craftbukkit.Main
Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: joptsimple/OptionException

forget that it was just a path issue

[haughty gale]

y is ur xms and xmx different

and y so much ram

what gc are u using

asking bc i keep crashing using shennandoah but i only tried 110gb i should prolly try like 60gb

[timid grotto]

folia will use more ram

in some ways, each region is like its own whole server

[haughty gale]

on g1 tho u shouldn’t go above like 16 i thiught

only shennandoah

can u give it like 20+

[timid grotto]

16 gb is a small-medium paper server

[haughty gale]

the aikar blog tho

[timid grotto]

folia can handle hundreds of players (i dont think its limit has actually been reached on good hardware)

[haughty gale]

wouldn’t u get a massive lag spike on gc

[viral stone]

g1 copes with large heaps just fine

The caveat is that large heaps is literally just a waste of memory for most MC servers

[haughty gale]

ic

was there a reason the tests used shennandoah or was it just to experiment with things

[viral stone]

afaik they wanted to test generational shen

[prime juniper]

Yo how do I build the 1.19.4 jar instead of the 1.20.1 one?

[viral stone]

you checkout the 1.19.4 branch assuming there is one

[prime juniper]

There's an example on jd.papermc Im just abit confused what to do

[viral stone]

what?

literally

git checkout ver/1.19.4

[prime juniper]

Oh nvm

[viral stone]

assuming there is a branch for that called that

[prime juniper]

I am blind as hell.

Yep you're right.

Shh... It's 3am lets ignore this

[tardy heart]

does anyone know how to use coreshader?

[viral stone]

Nothing to do with folia

[exotic coral]

where i can download folia?

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[exotic coral]

?

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[fair merlin]

You have to build it from source. Use the instructions on the Paper repo, as Folia is a fork of Paper.

[golden mica]

something went wrong?

[arctic tapir]

reclone

[spring patio]

[15:40:08 INFO]: Server Health Report

• Online Players: 11
• Total regions: 9
• Utilisation: 149,0% / 400,0%
• Load rate: 77,53, Gen rate: 65,20
• Lowest Region TPS: 19,93
• Median Region TPS: 20,00
• Highest Region TPS: 20,00
  Highest 3 utilisation regions
• Region around block [w:'world',-393,80,407]:
  100,0% util at 3 690,51 MSPT at 19,93 TPS
  Chunks: 289 Players: 2 Entities: 8 879
• Region around block [w:'world_nether',7,80,7]:
  20,5% util at 10,26 MSPT at 20,00 TPS
  Chunks: 0 Players: 2 Entities: 8 560
• Region around block [w:'world',293767,80,-58809]:
  9,7% util at 4,84 MSPT at 19,93 TPS
  Chunks: 287 Players: 1 Entities: 66

[arctic tapir]

?

[vale osprey]

Can you, please, help me with this error?

[viral stone]

er, gradle died

work out why

[river flame]

Hey, can the Geyser plugin be used in Folia?

[viral stone]

ask geyser

[river flame]

Okay

[cyan geode]

Help?

[pseudo ibex]

Yes

[arctic tapir]

did you apply patches

[keen fable]

(if it doesnt work geyser standalone will work + its much more efficient imho)

[pseudo ibex]

I have it on my test server. Not the standalone, but the Geyser-Spigot and it works fine.

[loud estuary]

will i be better of with few dedicated cores or many virtual cores?

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[lost tiger]

At least 16 cores, 32 threads

[viral stone]

The things intended for running on bare metal hardware

[lost tiger]

^

[loud estuary]

alright

i'll stick to paper then

[fair merlin]

You shouldn't run Paper on a VM either, FWIW.

But you can use a lot less cores with Paper.

[plucky minnow]

hi

[fair merlin]

Do you need help with Folia?

[dire willow]

i need help with folia

[timid grotto]

then you should say what you ned help with

[dire willow]

i forgot what i need help with

can u help me remember

[timid grotto]

[dire willow]

oh right

how to add folia support to my plugin

[timid grotto]

#folia-dev

[dire willow]

because why the FUCK does viaversion have folia support

[timid grotto]

plugins have to specify that they work on folia for folia to even attempt loading them

[finite hinge]

viaversion is trivial to port to folia

I think it did like 2 things with the scheduler and does everything else at the packet level

[dire willow]

real

let me test

how many people are usually in the folia testing servers

[finite hinge]

What folia testing servers?

[dire willow]

are u trolling

[finite hinge]

I think there was only one test server when it was first made public, pinned message said it hit 327 players

Other people have run their own, some for testing and others for trying to actually just run a server

Pretty sure they got more but no idea

[dire willow]

how can i use folia or download an unofficial version

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[finite hinge]

Read the build instructions on the Paper repo, do them on Folia

[golden mica]

same

[vale osprey]

I fix it, just use Java 17 instead of 20

[golden mica]

i use graalvm ee 17

still occur

[red lintel]

how do I configure folia?

[fair merlin]

Where is this from BTW?

[red lintel]

Do I just add -XX:ConcGCThreads=n to startup? Then change n = number of available threads?

this is from the github

I'm also reading this https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq

[fair merlin]

Those are paper config settings. Chunk system workers, etc.

How many cores do you have? What CPU?

[red lintel]

I have 6 available threads but I guess folia is only using 1 thread/core

I'm trying to test folia in a 6 threaded server to do some research.

[fair merlin]

6 threads is going to be slower than Paper

[red lintel]

I understand but I'm only doing some tests

[fair merlin]

You’d have to experiment with the ConcGCThreads flag

Still pretty new so we don’t have a lot of data yet.

Can’t say I’d recommend doing any tests beyond seeing if a plugin will start if you only have 6 threads though.

[red lintel]

this area should be 600% right since I have 6threads?

[red lintel]

currently testing the vanilla aspect only. I'm only using Geyser to allow bedrock users to join.

[vernal wyvern]

hey

how i disable the dragon sound?

like when someone killed a dragon

my whole server hear that

[red lintel]

how do I show this?
edit: is this done by a plugin?

[paper siren]

if that's an older screenshot, it was probably just an older variant of the other commands

[vernal wyvern]

.

[vernal wyvern]

i thought 1.20.1 fixed

[full egret]

First i would like to thanks everyone in here for their incredible work, dedication and motivation 🙂

I have this question in my mind: is it possible to lower the distance used for each thread ?
(i use a AMD EPYC 9754 as a test for few days, 128 cores with 256 threads)
if i'm not clear enough:
how big the word is splitted up in a CPU ? like every how many chunk / distance will it use a new thread, and how to make so this is as low as possible ?

[fair merlin]

It’s not really configurable and Folia does it automatically.

[full egret]

oh okey thanks, when you say automatically, is there a way to know how he does that choice, it has to follow a rule / a guideline to do these choices.
Like if there is more thread will it split them even more or no

[fair merlin]

It’s based on player distance. They just sort of dynamically combine when players get close.

[full egret]

yes and based on my testing it will group them on a thread every few thousand of blocks (5k x 5k)
is there a documentation about this process ? i wasn't able to find any about that in detail

[viral stone]

all of the documented stuff is in the linkables

the region size is pretty high but that's because it's finding a balance performance wise

while smaller would be ideal for isolation, it creates havock on the system used for actually managing the regions

[finite hinge]

The server is using your CPU cores/threads for GC, JIT, networking, chunk IO, and chunk generation so there are none left to have multiple regions ticking in parallel

[red lintel]

I see, so it's automatic. Glad to know, thank you!
Now I know why 16threads or core is recommended.

[keen fable]

still configurable in paper-global yml

[keen fable]

is there a way to show each individual region profiler when using spark profiler ? --threads * still shows Region Scheduler Thread (xN)

[jagged ether]

I doubt Spark would have a way to know which region a thread is ticking

[keen fable]

I just want to show the data of each thread in the thread pool

[silver sierra]

pretty sure the gui has an option for whether to merge thread pools

but it wont be much use anyways, it's a thread pool not a thread per region

[hexed ice]

--thread * --not-combined is what you'd use, see https://spark.lucko.me/docs/Command-Usage

[fair merlin]

Read the pins/FAQ/Readme

You want 16 cores/32 threads

[upper plume]

how do I build folia and where is the compiled jar file

[fair merlin]

Use the instructions in the Paper repo to build it.

[upper plume]

I did but it builds a file with 250 bytes

with no manifest

let me try it again

nvm it worked

tysm

[vale osprey]

Folia use one core or all 16 cores?

Because i have 10-13 tps on each region with 30 people online

[livid crag]

Do you have enough of hardware to support it? If so, provide a spark report.

Otherwise, no one can really help you

[vale osprey]

Yeah, i installed server on xeon E5-2697A v4, it should be enough

[north hatch]

That is quite an old cpu

[livid crag]

that thing can barely run modern Minecraft lol

[vale osprey]

So which processor would be ideal for running Folia?

[north hatch]

Modern processors with >= 16 physical cores seems to be the ideal minimum

Dpeends on how many players you're expecting

[vale osprey]

I expecting 70 players in total

[livid crag]

Then Paper is the right choice for you; unless you have so much money you can afford a Ryzen 5900+ for your 70 player server.

even then, your player HAS to be very far apart in order to take advantage of Folia

by very far I mean atleast 1000 blacks away from each other

[paper scroll]

May i ask, how far folia is away from a usable state, or has it already reached that?

[timid grotto]

is it usable? yes. is it stable? who knows

it is still very experimental

[north hatch]

Paper will be the right choice for 70 player server imo. Using Folia will require more resources as it has more overhead

Unless there's a very specific need for Folia, eg. each player building their own lag machine

[livid crag]

It's quite stable for vanilla gameplay as we already have some 1000+ test and there was no major issues. It's a matter of finding rare bugs and optimize how it operates.

[keen fable]

Do you guys really get 70 players on paper without compromising gameplay with optimizations? 🤔

[north hatch]

Compromises will have to be made at 70 players, unless you have a REALLY good hardware or a specific usecase eg. minigames, short-lived events

[steep elbow]

well the 1k players was unplayable

[keen fable]

imo: you'll need folia to get more than 30 players without destroying the view/sim distance & mobcap

[modern robin]

what?

how much has minecraft changed jesus

i used to get 100-ish players on a vanilla server working fine on 1.8

[keen fable]

realistically, paper can't handle more than 20 players if there's a lot of farms & no compromises

[modern robin]

and the hardware wasnt even anything special

[scenic sky]

that was all due to bad planning

[livid crag]

I mean 1.8 has like 10% of gameplay feature of current Minecraft

[north hatch]

Sculk sensors go brr

[modern robin]

?

current minecraft is just 1.8 with a million times more blocks

[timid grotto]

1.8 was almost 8 years ago. minecraft has recived continuous updates during that time. a lot will change in any project if it keeps getting big updates for 8 years

[modern robin]

they have clearly messed up performance wise somewhere else

[timid grotto]

they have added far more than just blocks

[modern robin]

name something

dont say elytra because i can probably run a 1.9 server the same too

[foggy blaze]

Entities

Sniffer, the deep dark, ancient cities, new world generation

Pillagers

[modern robin]

not much has changed that would cause more lag

i dont get how pillagers mean you now cant run a server on normal hardware

so its just bad code now

[foggy blaze]

You’re talking about a version of Minecraft that is fucking 12 versions ago

[modern robin]

12 versions and yeah about 12 years too

[timid grotto]

the entire datapack system to dynamically add or change certain game content such as structures, world generation, block/item behavior, and a lot more

[modern robin]

alr more like 8

[north hatch]

I mean to be completely fair, they could've optimized the game more. All in all, it's about features vs performance.

[modern robin]

its clear they have messed up somewhere

[north hatch]

1.12 -> 1.13 had a huge performance penalty

[modern robin]

i mean how have they still not fixed the client yet, optifine is legit a given now

[foggy blaze]

I mean they’ve achieved their goal perfectly. “Messed up is relative”

[timid grotto]

the game has gotten more complex than you seem to be able to belive though

[modern robin]

people take it for granted to literally install optifine to play the game

[livid crag]

Optifine is also outdated

[modern robin]

you cant run a client and even meet your monitor refresh rate on a great computer without it

[foggy blaze]

Uhhh I play on vanilla and I get 60fps just fine

[modern robin]

yeah true you have fabric and sodium and that bull

[livid crag]

When’s last time you check Minecraft lol

[modern robin]

but it does the same thing

fix their problems

[foggy blaze]

Fr lmao

[north hatch]

Although I'm unsure how this conversation is related to Folia

[modern robin]

we were talking about the fact somebody cant run a 30 player paper server now on a normal machine

[foggy blaze]

And folia help for that matter

[modern robin]

thats horrendous

[foggy blaze]

Yeah that has nothing to do with folia

[modern robin]

ah you lack the context

imo: you'll need folia to get more than 30 players without destroying the view/sim distance & mobcap

[foggy blaze]

I mean yeah I saw that.
This channel is for asking for help with folia. It’s not for ranting about how bad the mojang developers are

[modern robin]

i mean with a really bad single threaded server with a laptop with a pentium cpu and 4gb of ram allocated i was able to get 100ish players in the past just fine, didnt even take a toll on my network

[lofty magnet]

ok? Folia is for being able to play Minecraft though, not just join a server that provides keep alive packets LUL

[north hatch]

Using the same argument, Windows 98 used to be able to run on hardware with barely any processing power and ram

Look where we're at today.

[modern robin]

windows 98 had no functionality

[foggy blaze]

Applications require more resources as time goes on, and resources become more affordable too.
Welcome to the world of tech

[lofty magnet]

I mean... Microsoft doesn't care about performance

nothing new there

[foggy blaze]

Man it’s ironic you say that. A certain Minecraft 1.8 also has literally nothing compared to latest

[modern robin]

yeah but even windows 7 is modern enough and it made sense, more features more hardware demand

[north hatch]

Newer technologies and more powerful hardware -> companies caring less about performance

[lofty magnet]

And you can still run a modern Linux on old hardware without issues

[modern robin]

fully featured version of the game it was

[lofty magnet]

no?

1.8 is missing tons of features of Minecraft

[modern robin]

ye like what

[arctic tapir]

litteraly everything?

[lofty magnet]

1.20.1 is the only fully features version of Minecraft

[foggy blaze]

Broski I already answered you. Stop trolling

[modern robin]

😂 what

so 1.19 is apparently not fully featured

[foggy blaze]

Fucking clown

[lofty magnet]

yes

that's how updates work

[modern robin]

what new concept was even added to the game since 1.8

[lofty magnet]

...

[modern robin]

you have entities, blocks, ?

[arctic tapir]

..???

[foggy blaze]

Also “fully featured” is a relative statement. Fully featured compared to what?

[arctic tapir]

are you stupid

[lofty magnet]

w/e, I ignored that troll lmao

[wispy plover]

Sorry if this is a dumb questions
Where can I download the server files? (Or how do I build it)

[inner swift]

Use Paper's readme instructions but with the Folia repo

[onyx frigate]

BukkitRunnable's runTaskLater is broken. Is there any other method to run a task after a few seconds?

[viral stone]

Read the documentation

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[onyx frigate]

ok

[livid crag]

Please read what the project is about

Right above

[warped egret]

If regions that are adjacent eventually merge, say two big groups of players are dounf stuff 1k blocks from each other. One of them takes a minecart to the other group. Does that risk the regions joining together?

[fair merlin]

No, that player will go to the other region. Oversimplified, but it won’t combine them

Because they’re still too far.

If all the players take a cart then he’s.

[viral stone]

I mean, if the players movements causes a region to grow so big they they join, they’ll join

[inner swift]

(Players 1k away from each other are likely to already be in the same region, btw, as that's a relatively low distance)

[viral stone]

As they break away, the regions should split up again

[north hatch]

A section of a Folia region is 512x512 I believe and there will be a buffer around that

[warped egret]

interesting, thank you

[prime juniper]

Hey why is generation load on folia only like 35. I have Ryzen 5 3600 and 20gb ram fully dedicated to the server

Is it the cpu or?

It's running 4.2 ghz atm

Utilisation: 3.8% / 100.0% Plus this

[inner swift]

Folia automatically figures out that a Ryzen 3600 is below the minimum recommended requirements (16 cores/32 threads) and assigns just one thread for region ticking, as many more will have to be used for other tasks, which's why the utilization is at 100%

[prime juniper]

Aaaaa

No way to change it I assume

[inner swift]

I think you can change that in the config, but I'm not familiar with it

[prime juniper]

O

I assume it would be in the paper global config

chunk-system:
gen-parallelism: default
io-threads: -1
worker-threads: -1

I assume it's this?

Ig Ill put it to 12 ryzen 5 3600 has 12 threads

[arctic tapir]

are you going to use this for a public server

[prime juniper]

Nope just want to load a 100k world fast.

[arctic tapir]

just use paper

[prime juniper]

Why?

[arctic tapir]

because it won’t make a difference

especially with your specs

[prime juniper]

Why use a single thread when I can use 12? Plus speed went from 50 to 300.

[arctic tapir]

paper also uses multiple threads for chunk gen iirc

folia’s minimum core count is 16

[prime juniper]

Ah rip

[arctic tapir]

cores not threads

[cosmic pawn]

how/where do i get notifs about folia's next test?

[fair merlin]

We've only done one test so far. If we do another one we'll announce it in #announcements

If someone else does one I'm not sure where they'll announce it.

Not sure if/when we'll do another test.

[cosmic pawn]

It would be cool if there could be a role just for Folia pings

[fair merlin]

Probably not enough stuff happening to warrant that, but shrug

[cosmic pawn]

fair enough

[cosmic pawn]

I think I stand for a lot of people who care a lot about folia updates and not so much normal Paper, velocity, and waterfall updates

[fair merlin]

Okay

There's a lot more people using Paper than Folia. Folia's not really geared towards most servers.

Keeping an eye on the Github is probably the best way to keep track of Folia progress.

[prime juniper]

Hi

So I wanna use folia

To hold more players

On a server

Is there a wiki on how to set it up

Or anything

[arctic tapir]

how many players do you have

and what type of server

[fair merlin]

Read all the pins in this channel, the Readme and the FAQ on the repo. You have to compile it yourself to use it. And you need proper hardware and a server type to support all. All info in the aforementioned places.

[prime juniper]

Ok so now where do I download it

[fair merlin]

Did you read all of the info I mentioned?

[prime juniper]

Yeah I don’t see a download link

[fair merlin]

Look I’m not tying to be that guy but if you’re asking then you didn’t really read everything I said you should read.

[prime juniper]

I know there are no public builds that’s why I’m here

I want to make some of my plugins compatible with it

@fair merlin so is there a build I can download

[vale osprey]

Good luck, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to do it

[fair merlin]

No.

[prime juniper]

I am actually baffled

What’s the point of having a help channel

Etc

If u can’t use it

[livid crag]

You can compile it yourself. Not sure why you are baffled

[vale osprey]

I think he want to know ho to compile it from repo

[viral coral]

for users who have already managed to get folia to work

[viral stone]

Folia is experimental pre release software, it's intentionally gatekeeped at the moment, we provide minimal help compiling it, but, if you're not a dev or don't have a dev team, folia probably isn't for you in general

[amber python]

#folia-help message What about 8 cores? What does "It will boot on less but it won't sustain players" mean?

[livid crag]

Paper may run better if you do not have enough of hardware to support Folia

[amber python]

I'm using an AMD EPYC 7713. The dedicated server we have has 8 cores of that CPU

[arctic tapir]

that's not 16

so paper might be better

[amber python]

Would it handle 300 players on a single server?

[viral stone]

Well, no, ofc not

not unless you go crazy with the thing

but, we can't vouche for the performance of folia on random hardware either

[amber python]

What do you mean?

[livid crag]

No mob

Maybe

[viral stone]

Paper is constrained to a single thread for the tick loop, so it's generally not scalable

[amber python]

If only MC Java wasn't single threaded

[viral stone]

Folia spreads work across cores, but introduces many overheads in the process

I mean, if only concurrency was easy

There is a reason why pretty much 99% of games use a single threaded tick loop

[livid crag]

also by definition you don’t really have a dedicated server if you only have part of a whole cpu. You at most have dedicated cores

[amber python]

Yeah, dedicated cores

[livid crag]

A dedi usually mean the whole deal

[viral stone]

it's not because it's cool that way, it's because, when you want solid determinate behavior, multithreading is generally impossible

[amber python]

So... you're saying game servers that are multi-threaded are buggy? I'm just trying to understand

[viral stone]

No, what I'm saying is that making something multithreaded while retaining proper behavior is complex

that's why folia is region based, it's the only way to retain behavior over a sizable area; that's why stuff like redstone can still work

region based is not a new concept, but idk anybody whose really doing it dynamically in a manner which isn't fixed regions and doesn't have gaping timing concerns

[amber python]

Alright

I will try and go for Paper first

If I'm not happy with it (server performance), then I don't know

[viral stone]

Folia will work on the hardware above, just, how it will scale especially in a "shared" environment, nobody here can say

[livid crag]

300 players is gonna be sadger regardless

[viral stone]

if you wanna use folia, you really wanna be running on bare metal

Paper will not come close to 300 players without heavily cutting down the server

[livid crag]

You’d be playing with 3 view distance and 5 mob per player regardless of Paper or any fork

[amber python]

I'll disable natural mob generation

[narrow tangle]

hi, i have questions about performance
I am using 5950x and the above is the btop stats when i have this /tps picture on folia
folia shows 210.9% utilisation, what does that actually means? And how does the 400.0% number comes from?

I see my CPU is not close to 20% load, if I want to fully use up all my server performance (if I really have that many players), should i host 2 folia and hook with waterfall? (assume 400% is double, and two folia becomes 80-90% cpu on btop

[viral stone]

it's based on the utilisation of the region threads

you'd want to see how you can increase the # of region threads

but, I mean, load factor is not an issue here

[narrow tangle]

Does that mean there is some way to increase the 400.0% number to even higher? so that more players can get into single folia server.

[viral stone]

afaik, yes

you'd need to see the configuration options for folia, idk what all is exposed

[north hatch]

paper globals config > regionized threads

[loud estuary]

folia does not support 1.20 yet right? is there any date yet on when it will be supported?

[viral stone]

it supports 1.20

[loud estuary]

sweet

[cosmic pawn]

Is it plausible to run Folia on a Ryzen 9 7950X3D?

[arctic tapir]

yes

#folia-testing-2

[narrow tangle]

i only saw

threaded-regions:
  threads: -1

or

chunk-system:
  gen-parallelism: default
  io-threads: -1
  worker-threads: -1

Are you mentioning these ? Does -1 means that it will automatically use all core/threads?

[keen fable]

-1 means default setting

[narrow tangle]

what number should I modify or should I use the -1 default setting?
I have read the FAQs, are these thing mentioning relating to these paper-global settings? How should I tune it

[livid crag]

I mean it literally tells you

[loud estuary]

Are scoreboards still not supported? I just need to assign teams to people. Are there libraries that can do that with packets?

[tiny gale]

not supported yet.

[vale osprey]

After the tests I found that this CPU is enough for about 120 people for an SMP server with default spawn-rate settings

Stable 20 tps

[forest heath]

is a fork worledit?

[topaz bobcat]

Elo, why placeholderapi didn't work in folia core?

[vale osprey]

It is not supported yet

[topaz bobcat]

Thx, I will wait for support

[fair merlin]

Not all plugins are supported by Folia. In fact, most aren’t. You can try and see if they work or you can look for specific mentions of them working or not.

[topaz bobcat]

Initially, the Tab plugin did not work for me, after I deleted its config, it worked. And here placeholderapi completely refuses to work

[fair merlin]

If the plugin says it works on Folia then for help with it you should go to their respective discord or support channel.

If it doesn’t then you need to find another or wait for it to support Folia.

[topaz bobcat]

I understand. Will have to wait for updates then.

I also have a question. Which permission is responsible for entering the command /tps

I want my friends to have access to it too

[vale osprey]

You can compile spark from github and give permision with LuckPerms

[forest heath]

have someone a fork of worldguard?

[chilly edge]

same question xd

[tiny gale]

am I able to check how many regions currently exist?

and what players are where?

[inner swift]

You an check amount of regions and player amount in /tps

As for specifically player locations, Idk

[prime juniper]

So how do I get it to work

[prime juniper]

Ohhh all I have to do is compile it 0-0

[loud estuary]

is there a folia-dev channel?

[viral stone]

#folia-dev

you probably wanna see the channels & roles button in the channel list thingy

[loud estuary]

alright, thanks

also, a i9 13900 will be suited for running folia, right?

[arctic tapir]

no

recommend minimum is 16+ cores

efficiency core's dont count

[pseudo ibex]

This is what I have been using

https://github.com/PlaceholderAPI/PlaceholderAPI/tree/feature/folia-support

[loud estuary]

why not? wouldn't a i9 efficiency core still be better than an epyc core for example?

[inner swift]

Probably not

[pseudo ibex]

I mean you can try it

[loud estuary]

but it will be great for running paper, right? because of the p core performance?

[daring nimbus]

I mean, if you deactivate the e cores, sure. but at that point you might as well use another cpu

Theres no way to ensure that a region tick thread runs on the P cores, and that makes them kinda bad

[loud estuary]

i don't think any regular datacenter cpu will have a better single core performance than a i9 13900 p core

[inner swift]

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-12900k-e-cores-only-performance/2.html
According to this (closest data I could find), E cores of a 12900K are a weaker than cores on a mid range 6th gen i7 (2015)

[loud estuary]

:/ and compared to a datacenter cpu?

like epyc or xeon?

[bleak python]

the reason folia "requires" 16 p cores is because it actually makes use of them to all hell

or, rather than makes use, demands

[inner swift]

There are too many models from these lines

[loud estuary]

i could also get a ryzen 9 7950X3D server

[inner swift]

That's going to be much more suitable

[daring nimbus]

that should have pretty much the same single core performance, but actually 16 usable cores

[loud estuary]

alright, i'll try that one then, thanks

since it is 16c/32t, default settings will work fine, right?

[keen fable]

It depends on the server usage (generation etc..)

[loud estuary]

chunks are pregenerated up to 25k in all dimensions so i think it should be fine

are there recommended GC settings or can i just leave them at default?

[inner swift]

Could just leave them at defaults, tbh

I'd only worry about it if you start getting bad GC times

[loud estuary]

server has 128gb of ram so i imagine gc times would not be that great

[inner swift]

g1 handles large heaps fine

[fair merlin]

Just FYI we'd rather people not share jars here. Don't want to normalize people downloading stuff and risking a potential malware/etc incident.

[loud estuary]

How many players can a 1 gbit uplink support?

500 maybe?

[fair merlin]

Uplink isn’t going to matter as much as the server hardware.

And how many depends on what the players are doing and what plugins there are, how much data is being sent, etc.

[loud estuary]

What's the worst case?

1 Mbps per player?

[pseudo ibex]

Ohhh I’m sorry! Thanks for letting me know.

[prime juniper]

@fair merlin can you compile a jar and send it? I don’t really know how to do that but I want to try out folia.

[quaint ingot]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper

Follow the instruction here

[prime juniper]

Thx

[atomic flicker]

can i patch folia to paper version 1.19.3 ? if yes, woh i do dis 😄

[arctic tapir]

you can

you won't get support

just use the latest

[atomic flicker]

okay, how i can do dis

[viral coral]

if you have to ask

you can't

[atomic flicker]

bruh

[viral coral]

it is not as simple as changing a value somewhere and it works

use 1.20.1

[atomic flicker]

ok

Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: Could not load plugin 'BingoReloaded v1.5.0' as it is not marked as supporting Folia!

uhm

now

who needs to add the plugin ? the developer (with the api or something) or you as a fork developer?

[viral coral]

plugin developer

[atomic flicker]

okay

[viral coral]

the majority of plugins are not going to work on folia out of the box

[loud estuary]

we're gonna ping a discord server with around 130k members today. i run folia on the server with specs i attached. uplink is 1 gbit. what is a sensible player limit to set? it's a 2b2t like smp server but with no hacks allowed.

[blazing bough]

Make it wide open and when you start having problems you can tell us what a sensible limit is!

[loud estuary]

alright

so 1k for now?

[atomic flicker]

how i can se wich plugins are supportet ?

[loud estuary]

https://github.com/BlockhostOfficial/folia-plugins

[atomic flicker]

thanks

[inner swift]

Have a look at https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-june-2023

They used the same CPU, there's some findings and recommendations in there

[loud estuary]

oh wow, that's the exact same server i use

although i don't have a 10 gig uplink. should i get one?

[bleak python]

i think peak was something like 2Gbps? it's somewhere in the article

[loud estuary]

something like 5 gig uplink would be enough but hetzner only has 1 gig and 10 gig

it hovers at around 1 gig so i think it should be fine

we'll have a more gradual increase of players anyway

[north hatch]

let us know how it goes :)

[loud estuary]

alright 👍

i'll install spark first though lol

[loud estuary]

for some reason this furnace runs infinitely without fuel. is this a known bug?

[livid crag]

Can you reproduce the issue on the latest Folia with no plugin? if so, open an issue with reproduction steps

[inner swift]

Uhh

Check block logs if you have that, maybe someone put a lava bucket and then took it away?

[loud estuary]

hmmm it's out now but i also restarted the server so maybe it reloaded the state

but it was definitely infinite

idk how to reproduce it though sadly

[north hatch]

@loud estuary how many players did you get?

[loud estuary]

Unfortunately it did not play out like planned and we were only allowed to ping about 8k people. We had a peak of about 50 players which was obviously no problem at all. Then the ddosing began lmao

But it was good to be prepared, and who knows, maybe we can use the extra slots sometime

[north hatch]

Were you not using any DDoS mitigation service?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1113930081543409735/1127167182359498842/image.png

^ from the 1000 player event

[narrow bough]

How should I optimize can someone know? My Tps always fluctuates 5-20

I even gave it 64G****

[pseudo ibex]

More threads and spread players out more

[narrow bough]

Well, I try to separate them, they always form small groups

[paper siren]

what CPU are you using?

[narrow bough]

i9 13900K

[narrow bough]

Is i9 13900K not suitable for Folia?

[paper siren]

I don't know how well it works with heterogeneous CPUs

[narrow bough]

All right

[hybrid shore]

Production? No, because this cpu has e-cores

[narrow bough]

Now my players keep telling me that the server is stuck, but I can't do anything about it. I have optimized it step by step according to "https://github.com/YouHaveTrouble/minecraft-optimization".

[narrow bough]

So this CPU is suitable for Folia right?

Maybe I should try to open the second district server to share the pressure from the players.

[hybrid shore]

Did you read my message?

For production? No

For testing it's fine

[narrow bough]

Ok, I understand now, is it better to use Folia with more CPU cores?

anyway thanks for your answer

[devout zephyr]

Is high allocation rate (8gb/s) that much a problem, as stated in hackernews problem?

You know, idk if java anyhow can perform better

[hybrid shore]

Folia recommends at least 16 cores

[paper siren]

hackernews comments aren't a trusted source of information

[desert shale]

13900K can perform good with paper too because of 6ghz single core boost

but folia supports more players iirc

[steady zephyr]

big take

[paper siren]

?

[narrow bough]

ok ok thank u

[narrow bough]

Bro, do you think I should switch to paper?

[devout zephyr]

Fair

[desert shale]

well if your plugins support foila then keep foila

because 13900KF is a very powerful cpu

[narrow bough]

I am not 13900KF I am 13900K

[desert shale]

eh its mostly the same

use foila

[narrow bough]

Okay, but now the tps is very low, and the player's game experience is very bad...

[desert shale]

with foila or paper

[narrow bough]

I am folia now

[desert shale]

idk

[hybrid shore]

This cpu has e-cores ...

[hybrid shore]

Well you have 100+ players on one region

What do you expect

[narrow bough]

Well, that should be my problem, I try to keep them separate instead of together

anyway thanks for your answer

[solar ledge]

100+ on one region shouldn't be as issue depending on what they are doing.

If they are all pvping ofcourse your TPS will die

[vale osprey]

Try to change this option in paper-global.yml

[hybrid shore]

Shouldn't be an issue on proper hardware

[solar ledge]

Depends as long as they are not on one chunk

[north hatch]

Depends on the GC you're using, the amount of heap and hardware

Your gc has to be able to collect faster than it allocates

Otherwise you risk the server stalling/long pauses

[viral stone]

changing the region threads won't help them at all

literally all their players are in one place

MC has a high allocation rate on vanilla

combine that into effectively running multiple smaller servers at once and it's kinda gonna suck ass

thankfully though, the fact that regions ar emostly smaller, and the fact that it's no longer bound to a single thread, the newer java collectors are bound to look a bit more interesting

especially now that shen has generational

[paper siren]

shen won't be generational until Java 22 at least

[viral stone]

oof, I thought somebody had tested that or something

Not read up on all the latest tests cos having functional eyes is overrated

[paper siren]

it was targeted for 21 but they decided to delay it

[spring patio]

Please help\

No one can connect to the server when they are there

[lofty magnet]

[viral stone]

"when they are there"?

I mean, you truncated info

work out why the region is lagging

[spring patio]

yes

I can send you the region

[viral stone]

i don't want the region

see what is in the region

the line below what you cut off shows important info

[spring patio]

Chunks: 0

🤨

[lofty magnet]

that seems wrong lol

[viral stone]

6.6k entities though

[safe plover]

can bukkit plugins work on folia?

[narrow bough]

What does this option control, I am now the default "threads: -1"

[spring patio]

how do i get a list of the entiti in nether?

[viral stone]

directly? no

[safe plover]

or paper plugins, at least

[lofty magnet]

can? theoretically, yes

[viral stone]

plugins need to declare that they support folia

[safe plover]

huh?

so will extra code be needed for bukkit plugins to work with folia?

[spring patio]

[17:46:16 INFO]: Total Ticking: 2484, Total Non-Ticking: 703
[17:46:16 INFO]: 1870 (378) : minecraft:wither_skull
[17:46:16 INFO]: 380 (264) : minecraft:item
[17:46:16 INFO]: 76 (54) : minecraft:wither
[17:46:16 INFO]: 65 (0) : minecraft:end_crystal
[17:46:16 INFO]: 28 (0) : minecraft:piglin
[17:46:16 INFO]: 17 (4) : minecraft:strider
[17:46:16 INFO]: 15 (2) : minecraft:zombified_piglin
[17:46:16 INFO]: 12 (0) : minecraft:piglin_brute
[17:46:16 INFO]: 7 (0) : minecraft:player
[17:46:16 INFO]: 3 (1) : minecraft:minecart
[17:46:16 INFO]: 2 (0) : minecraft:boat
[17:46:16 INFO]: 2 (0) : minecraft:experience_orb
[17:46:16 INFO]: 2 (0) : minecraft:fireball
[17:46:16 INFO]: 2 (0) : minecraft:zombie
[17:46:16 INFO]: 1 (0) : minecraft:item_frame
[17:46:16 INFO]: 1 (0) : minecraft:pig
[17:46:16 INFO]: 1 (0) : minecraft:wolf
[17:46:16 INFO]: * First number is ticking entities, second number is non-ticking entities

[narrow bough]

Then what do you think I should do?

[viral stone]

once again, you need to spread players out more

[narrow bough]

OK!

[viral stone]

depends on the plugin

[spring patio]

This is only happening to this region and not for the first time

[viral stone]

i really have no idea how/if that command works properly in folia

best advice is probably gonna be to see if sparks folia branch updated

or just find a way to butcher all the entities in there

[lofty magnet]

@safe plover yes

[spring patio]

I have 8,000 entities in another region and he's fine

Oh, sorry about the ping.

[narrow bough]

For an average of 200+ players, is it reasonable for me to set foliage to 64G? Or do I give too much

[viral stone]

depends on the entities

all I can tell you is that region is shitting the bed

the entity count is the most likely suspect

otherwise, grab a profiler

[narrow bough]

I am increasing from 12G to 64G, and I find that it will always be full quickly, can you recommend how much running memory I need to set?

like this

[viral stone]

idk how much memory you need

[narrow bough]

OK, thanks

[steady zephyr]

Java will always maximize its memory usage and only selectively prune the amount of freed objects only when it needs to

What may improve your performance instead is more core allocations

[north hatch]

I used generational shen

[narrow bough]

OK I think I should understand, thx

[vale osprey]

This is how many threads will be active for server. For example i have 16 core processor, and i indicate 32 threads

[livid crag]

No pls dont do that

Please read the folia doc before giving incorrect info @vale osprey we understand you are trying to help but you are not helping.

[prime juniper]

Can I use a velocity proxy for a folia server? Or what is recommended

[north hatch]

Yes, you can

[manic basin]

Can used folia? I want open smp with friend

Folia recommend 16core?

[jagged ether]

Unless you have hundreds of friends that want to play simultaneously, Paper is enough

Otherwise go for it

[manic basin]

Ok

I if because my cpu max clock speed only 3.5Ghz

But i want high world gen speed

[arctic tapir]

just use paper

[grave fable]

Folia for more players

i don't think that u will have on your server 100+ friends)

[manic basin]

Yes but i want faster world gen😭

[livid crag]

Paper with right cpu can go up to 380 cps using chunky

Folia can reach 400-500 but the cpu is not obtainable for normal people

[north hatch]

Folia can reach 1.4k CPS from my testing

[lament ravine]

I was able to get around 950 cps w chunky on mine

[livid crag]

Where is my screenshot

[slate horizon]

I gotta test folia at some point it sounds realy promising

[fair merlin]

It’s pretty cool if it meets your use case and system requirements.

[proper moon]

bro what

i was talking to pauhull (who just moved his server to folia) and when he was genning chunks it was on a vm and it was on paper and it was like 50 to 90 cps

[viral stone]

depends on hardware and config

paper by default intentionally limits stuff

and the defaults are generally pretty low

[proper moon]

really?

how can u turn off that limitations

[viral stone]

the chunky wiki says how to tweak the settings for fast pregen

[inner swift]

Cubxity is using one of the top datacenter CPUs

Which explains the speed

[loud estuary]

it was on a vps to be fair

single core performance was bad

[proper moon]

yea i know, but thats way better than what i was getting on my host (13 cps)

[fair merlin]

Also Minecraft runs very poorly in a VM.

[proper moon]

yes i know

[fair merlin]

The whole point of Folia is to be able to take advatange of higher core counts. So you'll get faster generation than Paper. But only if you actually have the hardware to support it.

[proper moon]

yep

its actually very interesting how it works, now only if u can change the amount of threads of certain things (like netty io or chunk gen) on the fly

[narrow bough]

bro, My current CPU is i9 13900K, with 8 cores and 16 threads, so should I fill in 16?

[fair merlin]

You can try to test but you're under the recommended core/thread limit.

[narrow bough]

ok let me try

thx

[narrow bough]

I currently have an E5 2667V2*2, and an i9 13900K can be used, can u recommend what machine should I use to run folia?

[fair merlin]

Probably neither

[narrow bough]

Relatively speaking, which one is more suitable?

E52667V2* 2 16 cores and 32 threads I913900K* 1 8 cores and 16 threads

[obsidian veldt]

Recommendation is >16 physical cores.

Also most cores on 13900k are efficiency cores, so It’s not ideal

[narrow bough]

Well, maybe E52667V2*2 is more suitable

Thank u for your answer that cleared my doubts!

[obsidian veldt]

It’s still under minimum recommendations but sure

[proper moon]

is it normal for you to be recieveing over 40mbps loading chunks from a folia server but like nothing on paper?

[round birch]

sounds like either a compression issue, view distance, or the server sends chunks multiple times

[proper moon]

it was a compression issue, i had it off lmao

now that its on it's way better

[cosmic pawn]

I run a network based around one main SMP server with 2 minigame servers to accompany it. Scaling past 150 is pretty much impossible without sacrificing the gameplay a lot. Will it be feasible for an SMP server to run on folia with ~50 plugins (assuming they abide by folia standards)?

[pseudo ibex]

Yes

That is assuming your hardware can handle it

Whatever hardware that may be

[cosmic pawn]

7950x3D. Also will i be able to run multiple folia instances on the same machine? or would one folia instance using 16 cores be at basically max capacity?

[proper moon]

i run a 7950x3d amd i run 1, it performs well and uses all cores during peak times to about 20 percent

correcton: i work with someone who runs one and we dont have any issues during peak times

and tps is always a stable 20

[finite hinge]

If you actually have a need/benefit from Folia vs Paper then you won't be able to run two on that machine

[slow island]

Is it possible to use an existing Paper 1.20 map on a Folia server?

[arctic tapir]

yes

[cosmic pawn]

Whats your server

[cosmic pawn]

That's crazy

[finite hinge]

Paper can already make use of a few threads

Both Paper itself and the JVM (JIT, GC, etc)

So you need to account for all of that then add in the threads for running multiple regions in parallel

And since a Folia server is expected to be larger you'll want more GC threads and want all those things to be dedicated cores. You don't want your server to be stalled because the kernel had to pause your region threads to make room for your GC threads or something

And you'll need more networking threads since you have a higher player count

Unless your server is small enough to not need to worry about those things but then it's almost certainly small enough that just using Paper would be more efficient

[cosmic pawn]

Fair enough then

[prime juniper]

How is folia development going?

[livid crag]

yes

[prime juniper]

Is there like a roadmap of things that need to be done? Maybe re-enabling the things that have been disabled?

[livid crag]

there are to-dos on the github

there is no roadmaps or timelines, this is a volunteer project done by people on their free-will for free

[prime juniper]

ah

Can I donate?

[livid crag]

https://opencollective.com/papermc or you can find your favorite developers on the project and donate to them individually as well. (they are on the right hand side or a full list here https://papermc.io/team

For Folia, the devloper that works on majority of it is @tranquil epoch

[prime juniper]

Well I don't want to donate to papermc

Just to folia

Isn't there like an opencollective thing for all the folia developers?

[livid crag]

in that case, that will be SpottedLeaf

[prime juniper]

Is folia literally just their project? I thought it was something bigger because papermc has it on their front page

Alright I guess i'll just donate to spottedleaf then for now

But don't you guys wanna get more devs on it?

[livid crag]

it's just leaf for the entire thing before release yeah.

[prime juniper]

I don't think i can

There's no sponsor thing on spotted leaf's github

There's one on the folia repository but it just takes me to papermc

I was gonna donate like 20 euros or something, nothing much

[livid crag]

I think he only has PayPal right now and the handle is @tranquil epoch

DISCORD MOMENT

@spottedleaf is the handle.

[prime juniper]

Aight

Paypal worked

@tranquil epoch You should probably make an actual donations thing.

[livid crag]

He's just lazy

but I am glad that worked!

[prime juniper]

btw is there a config file somewhere?

[livid crag]

for which item?

[prime juniper]

wdym item? I mean for folia

[livid crag]

Folia uses all existing Paper configs

[prime juniper]

It says utilization 4% / 400%

But I have 32 threads

[livid crag]

the difference is that it has a threadpool for regions.

[livid crag]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq

that's on this page.

[prime juniper]

So I edit paper-global.yml?

[livid crag]

it shows the thread configs!

[prime juniper]

Would it be wrong to allocate more threads than needed if I have them available?

Could that slow things down?

[livid crag]

as long as it is available, it should be ok

it will only slow things down if you overlocate to what your system can offer.

[prime juniper]

Ah ok

Thanks

And if I don't set it to anything will it just figure out how much it needs or will it default to one?

[livid crag]

it just do system core /2/2/2

it is just using a very conservative amount

in your case 4

[proper moon]

out of curiosity, what happens when u travel between region's and the own threads, like how does it hand off

im not sure this is a dev question

so i dont wanna waste peoples times in there lmao

[livid crag]

You cannot cross region on tick, if the server think you are going to step into another region, those two regions will merge before you do

[proper moon]

so do they split after your practically through the region or do they stay merged?

[livid crag]

They stay merged until the region logic think it can spreate

[proper moon]

magic smoke must not be released

[livid crag]

the technical details will just be you reading through the patches

[polar scarab]

Will Paper/Spgiot Plugins work fine on folia? (besides of the region/chunk management)

[hexed ice]

no, see the readme

[timid grotto]

almost no plugins will work without any changes, and folia will only attempt to load plugins that say they run on folia

[knotty egret]

I'm too lazy to build the folia all the time, is there a build list?

[arctic tapir]

no

[warped egret]

You could set up for it to generate artifacts on a forke

just pull changes and it build

[viral stone]

We've published builds to the api since day 1

[finite hinge]

"all the folia developers" is just leaf

Err, wow, scrollback

Thanks Discord

[livid crag]

$20 for leaf to get some tendies

[manic basin]

i used folia+chunky
i got 150+cps good?

Radius 5000

[fair belfry]

i get 200+ on paper

so... depending on your hardware you might wanna fiddle with the threads a little

im on an i9-11900 tho

[manic basin]

i platinum 8168

[manic basin]

??

[fair belfry]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/reference/global-configuration#chunk-system

[manic basin]

I set workthread to 100

[fair belfry]

lmao

[radiant geyser]

does rcon work in folia

[arctic tapir]

I don't see why not

you'd have to try

[radiant geyser]

nah it does not

[bleak python]

lol

[manic basin]

i need help I used chunky(plugin) gen 2 world but cpu run only 20%

Why?

[arctic tapir]

how many cores do you have

[manic basin]

72

🤣

[arctic tapir]

probably need to configure the threads correctly then

[manic basin]

I upscale to pregenworld

[manic basin]

how?

[fierce knot]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq#how-to-best-configure-folia

[arctic tapir]

look in the paper configs

[lost tiger]

You can just use a flag

[manic basin]

Can give me?

[lost tiger]

-DPaper.WorkerThreadCount=X

Change X to the number of threads

[manic basin]

Ok thank

[manic basin]

Maybe not work

I used remote

Sorry for large photo

[manic basin]

I got 300cps++ per tick now thank

[prime juniper]

Wait chunky works on folia?

[subtle oriole]

yes

[fair merlin]

One of the first plugins that had support for it, yeah.

[prime juniper]

Is it not officially supported yet?

I really don't understand where i'm supposed to find the download/compile it

[fair merlin]

I think there’s a branch or PR for it.

Check the Github repo.

Lots of Folia stuff is still a work in progress. Including Folia!

[sly elm]

the version for bukkit based servers supports folia

[fair merlin]

Oh nice.

From the man himself. Thanks pop, I’ll remember that for the future :)

[sly elm]

yes well it was a dev build for a while but its part of the latest release now so it should just work

[fair merlin]

Sweet.

[karmic gulch]

So I’m unsure about this but is it possible to use folia on multiple computers (like a raspberry pi cluster)?

[livid crag]

Pi is not powerful enough to take advantage of folia

[fair merlin]

Also, no, it's not designed for clustering.

[karmic gulch]

Thx

[fair merlin]

But yeah a Pi is way underpowered for Minecraft.

Strongly not recommended.

Unless it's just you testing some stuff.

[cosmic pawn]

Do people already use folia in production? If so, which servers?

[fair merlin]

We kinda frown on people just advertising links to their servers in here

Not sure if anyone is running a large scale server with a lot of active players. Hardware makes it kinda tricky for some.

[vast dust]

I have to say this channel is comedy gold

[chilly edge]

Hi does anyone know what are the best start arguments for my server? (I have 8 cores and 16 threads) 4.5 GHz

[inner swift]

Just use Aikar's flags

[chilly edge]

do I have to worry about that?

[arctic tapir]

do note, the minimum recommend amount of cores is 16

[inner swift]

You're well below the minimum recommended amount of cores anyway

[chilly edge]

Yeah I know

[chilly edge]

I just used flags.sh, is that okay? Because it also mentions that it uses Aikar's Flags.

[inner swift]

Yes

[chilly edge]

is there an optimization Plugin for the view distance? Or sth. like that

[inner swift]

View distance is either set to something high or something low, the lower the less work the server will (especially simulation distance)

[livid crag]

I suggest you to advice player to use fabric mod such as farsight or Bobby to cache client side

[chilly edge]

is anti xray recommended for folia?

[inner swift]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Using the anti x-ray is a personal choice

[dapper aspen]

any reason why gradle builds for folia are failing on my end?

[viral coral]

not with that information