sk-discussion

[stark estuary]

e

[coarse leaf]

Is silksong out

[silver oak]

no

[nimble radish]

blackwyrm is the god of charms

[empty trench]

Yes

[hybrid stone]

yes

[coarse leaf]

Sad

[stark estuary]

?sspsa

[thin zephyr]

Reminder: The latest news for both Hollow Knight and Silksong is in #hk-announcements.
Check the pinned messages for more information, including a FAQ.

[coarse leaf]

U sure

[empty trench]

?zbpsa

[empty trench]

Yes

I was looking the hk announcements. Its kinda interesting. Wait a sec

Is that normal

[worthy lichen]

[empty trench]

Nvm its normally on the site

[velvet ocean]

When.

[hybrid stone]

oh well

[formal kelp]

Shape of unn charm

[rancid crow]

February gang

[formal kelp]

December Division is secretly february gang in disguise

[fringe pulsar]

Skip January

[surreal mortar]

If we don’t get news in the next 4 days, we will have gone one year without Silksong news

[naive cliff]

Isnt silksong release in february?

Of the year 69420?

[hybrid stone]

February 2022

[coarse leaf]

February of 696420666

were not getting any ss news for december or february :(

i can feel it ):

[coarse leaf]

so...january 1st news?

[empty trench]

I just got big trolled so im hoping january 27 now

[coarse leaf]

idk but not the next 1 month

i feel like were getting a release date like 2-3 weeks before release

[empty trench]

The same happened to hk

[hollow patio]

Wait................. what does ss stand for?

[empty trench]

Song and silk

[coarse leaf]

shtupidsussys

[hybrid stone]

it stands for sussy shaw

[proud vale]

Hollowgus

[frank mist]

Bruh the anime community on TikTok and Instagram has started worshipping Hollow Knight or something lmao

[ripe kettle]

??

[frank mist]

So a whole group of anime and manga analyzers discovered hollow knight and now they’re praising it as like the #1 work of fiction

Pretty goofy

[proud vale]

Finally, things are as they should be

[coarse leaf]

Oh shit

I hope no one judges hollow knight by that

[marsh ibex]

I will

[coarse leaf]

But yeah that’s crazy bro

[tame widget]

I am afraid

[marsh ibex]

Links please

[coarse leaf]

Now you might wanna head to #hk-discussion

[marsh ibex]

Specifically in #hk-general

[empty trench]

Silksong

[haughty brook]

I would like to see it myself if possible

[drowsy isle]

Hi everyone

[serene chasm]

Hey Slaz

[drowsy isle]

Hey curly what's up

[empty trench]

Silksong is releasing on february

[still elm]

[serene chasm]

Not too much, just trying to stay warm

[versed pollen]

You're literally warm blooded, can't be all that hard

[serene chasm]

It helps a bit. The fluffy tail as well. But its still very cold

[versed pollen]

Goodness, what a skill issue~

[upbeat marsh]

Guys maybe it's nothing but on gogdb it states that there was a silksong update the 27/12/21 at 21:50

[versed pollen]

I think that was for like every game

[empty trench]

Show proof

[serene chasm]

Check any other game

[haughty brook]

It isn't something that only occur with SS or is something general to other games? Because we had a similar situation before.

[versed pollen]

It was a GoG thing where they updated a ton of games (maybe even every game) or something similar

[serene chasm]

Basically. Dont listen to GoG. They dont know shit

[upbeat marsh]

As soon as my phone decide to losd the page i'll check

[empty trench]

I heard that silksong got that update a few hours before tga

[serene chasm]

Here is witcher 3 page

[empty trench]

Tga created an entire circus

[haughty brook]

More like a planet of clowns

[empty trench]

Check zoteboat

[empty trench]

True

[upbeat marsh]

Ok, i checked, it was probably some routine update since it doesn't show up in the changelog

[open abyss]

Challenge Silk Soul mode! Once you conquer the kingdom, test your skills in an all-new mode that spins the game into a unique, challenging experience. Hmmmm. Will it be like Steel Soul mode? Or something different?

[serene chasm]

We will have to wait and see

[alpine zephyr]

Is this true

[haughty brook]

Hoping is something that adds new movesets to bosses and changes the placement of certain enemies/items etc.

[coarse leaf]

if it's just a steel soul mode, they've rly exaggerated with the wording

[alpine zephyr]

Is that true

[coarse leaf]

no

[alpine zephyr]

February is silk song

[coarse leaf]

that was the february announcement 2 yrs ago

[serene chasm]

https://youtu.be/Gv6CRPqkpuU?t=668

here is TC talking about silk soul mode

[hybrid stone]

is this real

[worthy lichen]

[hybrid stone]

oh wait someone already asked

[worthy lichen]

totally

[hybrid stone]

dont give me hope.

[coarse leaf]

sounds like it'll be cool

[floral tartan]

SS came out am i missing something

[marsh ibex]

no

[floral tartan]

Sus

[hybrid stone]

we need a release date for the release date

[weak prism]

So, we have a guess, check out fireb0rn’s vid on it

[alpine zephyr]

What’s the guess

[coarse leaf]

i think he means the gfn leak

[weak prism]

SILKSONG STORY
so it began with hollow knight, the amazing hit metroidvania that we all needed in our life, it was so amazingly made, it just NEEDED a sequel (or prequel, idk)…
Then it began, on February 14th, 2019 Team Cherry made a trailer for the sequel (or prequel) to Hollow Knight that we now know as silksong…
They have made some mentions to it over 2019-mid2020 ish
But then, they released a demo in their studio in Australia. But no full release
BUT THEN about 2 months ago Fireb0rn made a video on what the heck is taking it so long and he found something ground-breaking, a release date hidden in the code.. scheduled for February 2022… it’s not confirmed but like, half the community makes it seem that way because we are just hanging on to whatever little info we can get now :P and here we are now, waiting for that day when the developers explode us with silksong

[alpine zephyr]

Let’s go

[weak prism]

^^ My Knowledge of it^^

[haughty brook]

The Nivida leak?

[weak prism]

Yepps

[coarse leaf]

it wasn't a release date hidden in the code unfort

[serene chasm]

TLDR; some intern put a date in a file and everyone when crazy

[weak prism]

Yup lol

[coarse leaf]

only reason i'd give it even a little credit, is the fact that some of the games on the database were actually announced after

[weak prism]

But idk if fireborn and moss bag can notice it, then it’s big enough for the community to notice it, plus what other hopes do we have? They have given so little info on it.
But I guess the less the better, it just gathers more hype for the game

Considering there’s only 3 or 4 people working on it

[serene chasm]

I dont think the stuff in the database is made up, but some of the dates are. Feb 1st is very unlikely

[weak prism]

Not first but I feel like it will release sometime inFebruary though

[coarse leaf]

it wasn't a silksong specific leak or anything, it had like a hundred of games on it,

[weak prism]

Hm, true

[alpine zephyr]

Bonk

I just want a game to play

[analog edge]

Me if there's no news before new years

[weak prism]

Cool text, how did you change that, an extension?

[analog edge]

🤡 🔫

[chilly breach]

[weak prism]

The release date (sort of) is expected for Feb sometime, have at least some patience till then, after that who cares, there goes our hopium

[calm night]

There's an option inside the phone that lets you change it (at least in mines)

[weak prism]

Ah phone, oof

[calm night]

Oh

[hybrid stone]

not at all, the game (from what weve heard) is in a state where tc could decide whenever to polish and release

[chilly breach]

some androids have this as default font, or old ppl set this to their font, it's the def of 🔫

[serene chasm]

from whom?

[hybrid stone]

so theres graig saying they planned on releasing this year but keep adding stuff

[chilly breach]

a hope for ss imo is that the player will have a diverse moveset even at the beginning, like no having to unlock dashing or walljump

[hybrid stone]

but that defeats the entire point of a metroidvania

[chilly breach]

gripe with hk is that it just feels wrong to start without those movement options

[hybrid stone]

"i want to play a metroidvania but i want everything at the start"

[analog edge]

December flew by for me and I was definitely expecting something from TC. I wonder what happened

[chilly breach]

and you can have other ways to make progression and addition to combat without sacrificing how the game feels at the beginning.

[leaden vessel]

Metroidvania does not mean make your player shit to control at the beginning of the game thats just stupid

[hybrid stone]

bur the player isnt shit to control, it just doesnt have extra movement abolities

[alpine zephyr]

I hope silksong is like 217%

[hybrid stone]

a metroidvania is literally about unlocking movement and stuff

if you dont like that go play a different game

[analog edge]

Just have the upgrades lol

[random granite]

i hope silksong development is going well and TC takes the time necessary to make a worthy successor to Hollow Knight

[chilly breach]

yeah, I'm not asking for everything, just enough to make the character feel dynamic at the start, not only in the final third. There are plenty of other ways you can do progression.

[leaden vessel]

Plenty of metroidvanias start you off with wall jumps, dashes, double jumps ect.

[random granite]

but also, when silksong?

[hybrid stone]

example?

[alpine zephyr]

Unknown

[hybrid stone]

february - may

[alpine zephyr]

What month is February again

[serene chasm]

2\

[marsh ibex]

Super metroid starts with walljumping

[alpine zephyr]

Ty

[coarse leaf]

february

[leaden vessel]

Metroid prime 1 and 2

[marsh ibex]

and those were annoying wall jumps

[chilly breach]

just because I'm annoyed with how slow to start hollow knight is doesn't mean I don't dislike the game, it's still the goat for me.

[marsh ibex]

metroid prime games aren’t really a good example

[alpine zephyr]

January then February right?

[marsh ibex]

not because I don’t consider them metroidvanias

[coarse leaf]

January then May me thinks

[hollow sedge]

January doesnt exist anymore

[marsh ibex]

mostly because those are in 3d

There’s a different set of standard loadouts when you’re in 3d

[haughty brook]

I mean Hornet seems to begin with wall grab, so there is that.

[leaden vessel]

They are metroidvanias where you start with abilities the dimensions dont matter

[marsh ibex]

Ledge grab

[alpine zephyr]

February is second month

[marsh ibex]

anyways they probably won’t change that from what we’ve seen

[analog edge]

When a 2023 release seems more likely by now🤡

[chilly breach]

I just really hope you can have fluid movement in the early game, and continue to add to that, instead of starting without upgrades detrimenting your gameplay experience and gamefeel.

[marsh ibex]

they do have a sprint though

[hybrid stone]

its not tho

[alpine zephyr]

How much do you think it will cost

[marsh ibex]

Same as the first game

[coarse leaf]

90€

[hybrid stone]

theres animation cancelling with wallgrabs so it should be fine

[haughty brook]

Realistically, maybe 15 to 20$

[analog edge]

Copium my friend

[coarse leaf]

90€ and no news this week

[alpine zephyr]

Ok lol hoping it wasn’t like 50

[chilly breach]

upgrades improve your movement and don't just give you what you should've had anyway

[hybrid stone]

go ahead contact team cherry

[chilly breach]

and like, If tc can make a way to have dash and wj still be upgrades while keeping good combat

that'd be fine too

[alpine zephyr]

Don’t fight about something we don’t even know anything about

[haughty brook]

I think the best "keys" in a Metroidvania are new movesets that can also contribute to combat.

[alpine zephyr]

Like the dive

[chilly breach]

yeah, ofc! There's just some things in hk that feel like base moves that you should've already had, now personally for me I can get dash and wj in like 2 hours, but it took me like 6 to get them first time around. Generally makes early game a slog

[marsh ibex]

also it is a 2d game, those are pretty easy upgrades to find

And the start doesn’t have bosses which need those so it’s not that bad

not excusing it if you don’t like it

maybe just have a little mindset change?

[chilly breach]

Another thing is, because of this thing where you can't really be expected to have these upgrades, and progression is kinda jank when once you have like two, three movement upgrades the world is in your hands, that a lot of bosses tend to not be built around your skill level. It's a limiting factor, and I think ss could improve honestly with more clever ways of gating progression while still allowing open world.

you could for example, get all nail upgrades just by screwing around and then rush the game. which hey, if you play that way I'm okay with that, just makes the game less impactful.

[marsh ibex]

it’s a metroidvania

it’s not supposed to be open world

[alpine zephyr]

Why do much writing I don’t wanna read an essay

[marsh ibex]

Those are two entirely different gameplay conceits

[surreal crown]

Hollow Knight is definitely the most open-ended Metroidvania I've played.

[haughty brook]

People confuse non-linearity to open world

[chilly breach]

how do you make good progression while still allowing for exploration and creativity with how the game is played.

[surreal crown]

Maybe not full open world status but still impressive.

[marsh ibex]

maybe there’s like…one of those that are open world but non linear doesn’t mean open world

snail me

[astral rover]

any new news regarding when we may get some news?

[hybrid stone]

the game is technically open, but the progression isnt

[marsh ibex]

?sspsa

[thin zephyr]

Reminder: The latest news for both Hollow Knight and Silksong is in #hk-announcements.
Check the pinned messages for more information, including a FAQ.

[chilly breach]

eh, I just really conflated things cause honestly it feels open world while playing, I think the game kinda just makes it feel more open then it actually is, it's a set of paths, not an open field, yet it immerses you in it.

[marsh ibex]

aye

[astral rover]

I mean news of when we'll get news, not just news itself

[marsh ibex]

that’s still sspsa

[surreal crown]

Yeah no news of that either.

[astral rover]

sad

[hybrid stone]

means theyre closer to done

[surreal crown]

Does anyone else think that the dash / air-dash & sprint / long-jump are gonna be separate abilities?

[hybrid stone]

no, the long jump comes from sprint i think

[haughty brook]

Nope

[marsh ibex]

Ysee that’s actual padding

[surreal crown]

Sorry phrased that badly. I mean Dash as an ability and Sprint including long-jump as an ability.

[chilly breach]

would you put it like this?
[linear] mario like ----> metroidvania----> open world [open ended]

[hybrid stone]

ohhh im not sure

[marsh ibex]

I mean it already went that in the demo iirc

[hybrid stone]

that works, i feel like metroidvanias have open maps (technically) but not open progression

[ripe crest]

Yeah that's how I would put it

[hybrid stone]

what about open progression in a linear map..

[chilly breach]

It's a spectrum and genres fall on this. maybe a 2 dimensional one.

[haughty brook]

Honestly, Metroidvanias have an advantage of better gameplay progression/boss battles than most open world games.

[ripe crest]

depends really

[hybrid stone]

yeah, especially since many open worlds are 3d and 3d bossfights typically dont work as well

[surreal crown]

Abilities we know of so far (not including tools):

• Dash
• Sprint
• Wall-jump
• Glide
• Silk-spear
• Gossamer Storm
• Grapple
• Riposte
• "Spinning-top" attack
  Silksong already has more core abilities than HK had and we likely don't know all of them

[hybrid stone]

some of tjose are tools

[ripe crest]

what about that lifeblood one? what's that called

[hybrid stone]

lifeblood syringe, also a tool

[surreal crown]

I'm excluding tools

[chilly breach]

Problem with my 2 dimension of map openness and progression openness is that you could honestly say that both terraria and hk have very open maps and linear boss progression, but ofc they are very different games, so, I would say, my diagram is not complete.

[surreal crown]

Terraria also isn't narrative driven so it's a little bit different in that regard.

[hybrid stone]

terraria is the i of games

[marsh ibex]

I wouldn’t call silk stuff abilities, since those are tied to the magic equivalent

[ripe crest]

I find Terraria pretty different from hk mostly because of the map layout

[chilly breach]

I feel like you would need a multidimensional manifold to describe game genres.

[alpine zephyr]

Goodnight

[ripe crest]

Vs would count as an ability so why not?

[marsh ibex]

mostly cuz it’s not a movement ability really

[hybrid stone]

i mean if a multpledimensional manifold is 2d than sure, id say terraria is perpendicular to both sandbox and metroivanias

[surreal crown]

I guess I should say progression abilities. I wouldn't include howling wraiths from HK for example, unlike desolate dive which allows you to go to new places.

[marsh ibex]

like a dash or a double jump

[surreal crown]

I can see how Gossamer Storm and Riposte can be used as progression abilities even though it's not confirmed

[fossil grail]

How can you talk about a game that doesn't exist?

[ripe crest]

speculation about said game

[hybrid stone]

speculation

[marsh ibex]

funny joke

[fossil grail]

I see

[chilly breach]

I just had an idea, give the wall jump immediately give the wall jump stamina, and so that it can contribute to movement and combat, but be limited in for example, a long climb, like give only 1 or 2 wall jumps, and then later on, when you want to open the world, give the player x more or even infinite like hollow knight, you can apply this philosophy to plenty of other abilities, like limiting the stamina of super dash, or somethin.

[marsh ibex]

It’s not done but it exists

[uncut citrus]

Dash is sprint tho

[ripe crest]

no?

[hybrid stone]

that would feel unfair, esprciallu with the kind of dynamic that hollow knight has

[surreal crown]

I used to think so, until I saw Hornet dash on the ground independently from sprinting. That pretty much confirms a difference in my mind.

I'll try to find the timestamp

[chilly breach]

you'd have to think ab how many jumps you have left so that you don't just fall, it's a calculated thing, it is controllable and you can use it smartly, limited wall jumps would also add depth

[haughty brook]

Yeah, it would turn frustrating very soon very fast

[chilly breach]

in a CoF like place with walls, you'd have to switch up your moves and not cling to walls.

[uncut citrus]

Pretty sure whoever did this just didn’t let he button pressed

[marsh ibex]

that’s like, a gigantic change christ

[hybrid stone]

again, silksong is meant to have an emphasis on fluidity, a mechanic like that would ruin flow

[sacred solstice]

Why the hell did I look at your banner

[ripe crest]

In the heat of the moment you aren't really thinking about things like that

[chilly breach]

tbf that is a valid argument, I feel as if maybe this would suit another game focused on precision

[marsh ibex]

walljump stamina is a big difference and I feel like that only works in games like celeste? Where being able to perma cling to walls makes the game much easier?

[uncut citrus]

Or like in many games, you can wall jump indefinitely as long you change wall, you could allow a few jumps on the same wall to make it still very mobile but it would make you not able to cheese stuff by staying up too long

[surreal crown]

Well yeah, the button has to be held down to Sprint, but the abilities have to be divided up somehow. If not it would be (Dash / Air-Dash / Sprint / Long-jump) all in one ability. I dunno if they'd do that.

[haughty brook]

Honestly stamina based movement only works in games with heavy focus in combat like the Soul series but for exploration is just risking to turn into frustration.

[weak prism]

cough cough Breath Of The Wild

Half combat half exploration, idk

[marsh ibex]

stamina really isn’t that much of an issue in botw unless it’s raining

and even then just use glitches

[ripe crest]

Rain is a PRICK in botw

[chilly breach]

so, if removing parts of abilities is annoying, then how about we add new ones, maybe a grapple needle or something, idk how it would work control wise, but it would allow for a sort of quick movement froom the floor to ceiling, or wall, it could flow into wall jumps, dashes, attacks, and the sort.

[uncut citrus]

You didn’t took a look at the banner, the banner took a look at you

[surreal crown]

Isn't silk / soul the equivalent of stamina in this game?

[weak prism]

cough cough whistle sprint

:P

[haughty brook]

Grapple movement exists in SS tho

[marsh ibex]

whistle sprinting is like base stuff

[digital dome]

Is DLC for silksong out yet? I’m getting tired of playing as hornet

[sacred solstice]

[marsh ibex]

I mean bullet time bounces or wind bombing

[ripe crest]

yeah

[weak prism]

You mean the new bomb fly thing?

[ripe crest]

That's a different thing, not sure the name of it

[weak prism]

Ah, I can never land a BTB

[hybrid stone]

yeah thats a thing

[ripe crest]

Now there is a sub convo of botw

[haughty brook]

Already said that

[chilly breach]

I'm really trying to find a way to make the game have movement upgrades without bogging down early game movement

[marsh ibex]

Wind bombing is the two bomb thing

[uncut citrus]

Yes « the knight » DLC is out! As a totally new game even! DLC’s name is « hollow knight » you can buy it on steam I’m pretty sure it’s even on sale

[surreal crown]

It's funny cause the grapple ability is inconsistent even in the 1st trailer we've seen. Sometimes it uses silk and other times it doesn't.

[ripe crest]

They're talking about the thing where you hover in the air with the bow and bomb

[chilly breach]

probably mid dev.

[glacial gulch]

silksong

[hybrid stone]

untrue, it uses silk and gives it back

[marsh ibex]

i know

[uncut citrus]

Only because you hit enemies

[haughty brook]

I think is something from the trailer, I would guess the grapple is a skill that always spend silk and only gets back when it hits an enemy.

[chilly breach]

I feel like there could be tools that not only do combat stuff but unlock areas too, like a bomb that destroys a wall you can't break normally.

[surreal crown]

https://youtu.be/yQxwbZsL14Y

[hybrid stone]

basically a key

[ripe crest]

What's this game

[surreal crown]

1:32

[uncut citrus]

It grives you soul as you hit enemies, if you don’t hit an enemy it doesn’t give you soul

[hybrid stone]

ive watched it

[cunning geode]

It uses silk and then grants it back on hit

[chilly breach]

yeah but unless it's KH the key can't act as a weapon

[surreal crown]

It doesn't use silk at 1:32

[lament gyro]

Guys it’s happening

[digital glen]

I just want to use the parry

[uncut citrus]

Pretty sure that’s a glitch

[weak prism]

Oh Uh I think it was called BLSS (bow lift smuggling slide), it is because it is a mix of 2 different glitches, the bow smuggle where you can hold a bow without actually holding it, and the other glitch (not sure the name) where it lets you slide across the ground but you lose momentum really fast unless done properly, but mix the two and you get an infinite slide as long as you charge it (spam left and right to gain friction against the bomb)

[marsh ibex]

yeah that’s the name

[ripe crest]

I've done the glitch I don't need an explanation

[marsh ibex]

anyways getting sidetracked

[weak prism]

Ye

[haughty brook]

Locking areas based on unequiapable weapons it would be a shitting thing to do. It would hinder progression if you are walking in a map and you forgot to equip an item and must to go all the way back to a bench.

[chilly breach]

forgot bout ss mechanics for a sec

[chilly breach]

it would ruin the flow yeah

[hybrid stone]

@chilly breach i get your point, but at the same time having movement and sbilities that can be used in combat and platforming is what makes a metroidvania a metroidvania, having base movement from the start also wouldnt work from a lore perspective either

[digital glen]

"Oh god dammit, a breakeble wall, know i have to come all the way back to the bench"

[uncut citrus]

Smh some areas in HK are locked by shade cloak I always forget to equip it it’s so annoying

[surreal crown]

They can have both if you can get to a place early using a specific tool.

[hybrid stone]

lmaoooo

[ripe crest]

I usually forget to equip wings

[chilly breach]

I feel like there are plenty of other ways to make the game fun without stripping you of your most basic tools during the first half.

either that or make hornet fun to play without these abilities

[haughty brook]

I would only see certain tool that could help make certain optional skipable segment on the exploration segment, like with the spike ball, rather than obligatory "key" items. The only ones that can be like that are movesets and silk skills upgrades that are always 100% useable regardless of your particualr "build".

[hybrid stone]

the point is that theyre not basic tools. they are upgrades to your character. nothing is being stripped off of you, its being given to you later on

[surreal crown]

To be fair Hornet already has more abilities than the Knight did at the beginning of the game.

[ripe crest]

The tools should be the wraiths of ss

[hybrid stone]

thats what theyre doing by giving her a ledge grab that can be animation canceled into different actions

[uncut citrus]

Happens to me as well, worst part of when I forget to equip dash, I kinda forget about it sometimes when going vertically but then there’s some horizontal parkour and it hits me, gotta go back to the bench

[chilly breach]

the knight feels chained at the beginning, it's not fun to play when you, walk around and hit things with needle, no quick movement, just left right up down jump swing. It's Mario 1 movement.

so yeah, hope hornet is better

[hybrid stone]

ITS MEANT TO FEEL CHAINED

[surreal crown]

I forgot to equip my nail when I fought moss charger SMH

[chilly breach]

does feeling chained actually make the game fun tho?

[ripe crest]

White palace was pretty difficult saying I had to equip and unequip abilities for certain sections

[uncut citrus]

TK already has pogo which can count as an ability imo

[digital glen]

Lets talk about how concerning the rosaries system seems

[hybrid stone]

it contrasts when you have them, making it feel even better when you get them

[chilly breach]

I just feel like you should get them a little sooner.

[uncut citrus]

Also hornet got that wierd pogo which is more advanced than TK’s one, so that’s definitely an ability as its own

[haughty brook]

Honestly I don't like when people compare diferent games that are have diferent design philosophies and diferent gameplay flow just because they have superficial similarities. Its like I would say Portal 1 is inferior to Doom because I can't make Chell equip the BFG and destroy Glados in one shot.

[surreal crown]

The rosary strings seem super interesting to me. I can see myself paying a little bit more for safety.

[ripe crest]

It gives the game its sense of atmosphere

[marsh ibex]

have you played metroid prime 1

[chilly breach]

it's really only endgame when movement actually becomes fun

[hybrid stone]

yeah with hollow knight i agree, but its been speculated that dash comes right aafter moss grotto

which would make sense

[chilly breach]

I don't say, instantly start off with everything, just don't lock dash until 2 or more hours in

[digital glen]

Yeah, but feeling obligated to make strings in fear of loosing everything is not fun, even more if you stumble a boss

[ripe rampart]

its fun to get stuff as you explore

[marsh ibex]

they are seemingly speeding it up because people did criticize that a lot

[chilly breach]

also it'd be nice if the bosses actually tested your new movement instead of your new movement making them easier.

[uncut citrus]

Hornet’s down attack can be cancelled into a jump so that’s basically a small double jump/dash, I’ll call that an ability

[chilly breach]

like only a few bosses do that in hk

[surreal crown]

Alright so on the movement debate I actually have a personal anecdote to use. My dad is not great at playing games, but he's tried playing HK recently. He's doing surprisingly well, and he attributes that to not having to push a bunch of buttons (at the start at least). I think there's something to be said for starting out simple and then slowly building up complexity to adjust the player to the game.

[uncut citrus]

And she start with it

[chilly breach]

I'd say yeah you could have a smaller dash, kinda like how the soul upgrades are split into two tiers

[uncut citrus]

Definitely some of that, yo should get a new ability as you have at least a bit of mastery over the last one

[uncut citrus]

||Down attack||

[hybrid stone]

but that loses the impact of the upgrade, it goes from "heres your new ability" to "we made what you had slightly better"

its less impactful

[chilly breach]

not saying you remove the first dash upgrade, just make a better one

and no, shadow dash doesn't count it's a few i frames and door opener

[hybrid stone]

that throws off the balance of the game

[haughty brook]

Eh...I prefer that based moveset skill are just the fully upgraded one rather than "divided" it. I prefer to give the player the full moveset and just having fun with them.

[surreal crown]

Yeah even though HK has way fewer progression abilities than other games they feel just as important cause of how spaced out they are. You always have time to get adjusted to your current arsenal.

[chilly breach]

make the game balanced around it then.

[haughty brook]

It also have the risk of padding the game

[chilly breach]

like the game already does not giving you the ability to dash until 2 hours in.

[hybrid stone]

or, they create impactful character upgrades that give you a new way to move, giving you access to more areas and that fits the dynamic of the game

[haughty brook]

I always disliked the "now you upgraded your dash to make it 0.5% faster"

[chilly breach]

I feel as if you could've had like hornet earlier instead of false knight

[ripe crest]

I agree, I don't think overwhelming the player with abilities within like the first hour or two without giving them time to adjust is a good idea.

[uncut citrus]

You will definitely be still learning down attack as you will get your dash in silksong, so you won’t feel as chained as in HK, where you just had to learn a bit of timing to get decent as pogo

[hybrid stone]

false knight is almost a tutorial boss, it teaches you about the basics of every fight in the game

[surreal crown]

Hornet's down strike got me acting up. Looks so much fun to use

[uncut citrus]

I can’t stress this enough but like SS down attack can turn into a jump, you can pogo off enemy in diffrent direction... definitely more complex than in HK so hornet alread ystats wit more

[chilly breach]

I have a feeling anyway that if you have a good base moveset, I can set aside the lack of these upgrades

hornet already looks fun as hell even without half the stuff

[ripe crest]

Then what's the point of changing the pace drastically

[uncut citrus]

Wait a minute

[hybrid stone]

then wheres ur point

[uncut citrus]

When I’ll be able to make cool emotes and stuff my nitro would have expired

Nooooo

[chilly breach]

I think my problem was, the knight feels so basic without the upgrades. It should've been fun to play at the start, and the upgrades should feel like upgrades not a base moveset

I have no problems with having upgrades, just how the knight feels at the start ruins the first half of the game for me

[surreal crown]

Ori 2 starts you out with the wall jump right?

[ripe crest]

It gives the game it's since of atmosphere in my opinion. I think the game would have been a bit worse if you did that because it would make the exploring aspect a bit less fun

[static rose]

There aren't a ton of upgrades, tho. If we started with something, it would make it even lower

[haughty brook]

Maybe we are on different wavelengths, but HK is not unique in that you begin as a basic player character and you progress the game obtaining diferent abilities until the end game in which you mastered all these system. Is something many games did it the past and I feel that HK did it well in that regard, it always gave the player new stuff at a good pace.

[reef scarab]

Eh, false knight and gruz mother are perfect tutorial bosses.

[random wing]

So is this the place where I can talk about Sliksong?

[marsh ibex]

Yeah

[fleet temple]

yes

[uncut citrus]

Well then this is more like #hk-discussion, we should disscuss about how silksong won’t have this problem since the pogo is already a full ability

[reef scarab]

But yeah Silksong in four days

[brittle garnet]

HK is certainly not the first in using the metroidvania formula but it certainly did it the best imo.

[random wing]

Bet Let’s A Go!

[ripe crest]

It's a fast boss though so it would cause some struggle if it replaced false knight

[static rose]

The best parts of hk was how unique each biome was and how interesting the bosses were and silksong is definitely going to be the same.

[chilly breach]

I feel like those upgrades are impactful, but. what we have when you fall down the pit and jump into hallownest, is not enough for early game, it truly feels like you are a shell, you have nothing, you can jump, move, hit and heal. It's mario 1 level, there is no depth. Maybe I am being too harsh, it works for the game it is in, but the early game, just feels like it should be pushed in with the mid game.

[marsh ibex]

Also False Knight is the first fairly big big boss

[random wing]

That is so true.

[ripe crest]

You are a shell though it makes sense you would have no abilities at the beginning

[chilly breach]

to me, the game is too slow to start, that is really all I have to end it on

[hybrid stone]

Omg u just discovered hollow knight lore. the knight is quite literally a shell,

[surreal crown]

Moss Mother is more of a tutorial boss than Gruz Mother or False Knight ever were. Fighting a boss in under 10 min

[brittle garnet]

You do get the Vengeful Spirit very early, and then the dash not long after

[marsh ibex]

like i understand your issues, but you already noted the solution. Just have the upgrades gotten sooner

[copper nest]

Only issue I have right now on seeing bits of SS is when a boss is staggered there's a ring above the head. But it could just be me.

[haughty brook]

Its storytelling 101, the hero begins with basic stuff until they obtain their drio.

[marsh ibex]

which we already assume is gonna happen based on the tutorial boss design

[uncut citrus]

Ppls died to false knight (I don’t even remember but maybe even I did) so yeah Hornet would have been way too early, only giving a few dozens of minutes to get used to the movement is not enough, 1-2h of getting used to the movement before a real challenge which is hornet is enough so that even someone who is not used to play video games can get it in only a few tries

[marsh ibex]

so like what’s your point

[ripe crest]

Why is that a problem

[surreal crown]

Just like Doom Eternal actually

[random wing]

Yea that kinda does look silly.

[hybrid stone]

they might remove it, i think its cute tho

[copper nest]

I dunno it kind of irks me, looks out of place

[surreal crown]

Ring supremacy

[static rose]

Every biome in hollow knight is extremely unique except the optional howling cliffs and the extremely late game queens gardens. This is why hollow knight is fun and engaging and why I can actually memorize the map

[chilly breach]

idk maybe I'm too gamer... my older sibling literally couldn't complete the tutorial

[hybrid stone]

again, hollow knight is a hard game

[split tide]

Hornet 1 tends to be a pretty big roadblock from what I’ve read

[fleet temple]

well, I mean, some games aren't for everyone

[digital glen]

just beat doom eternal like 30min ago, fun that you would mention, simulation is broking

[ripe crest]

I definitely died to false knight a bunch, and so did my brother so it serves as a good first boss

[chilly breach]

hm, well Idk, I just spammed vengeful spirit and the hornet became paper

[static rose]

As a major game completionist I don't understand people who, say, get to thk and quit the game

[split tide]

She’s one of the few hosses where you can’t just explore the overworld to get more powerful gear; you’re stuck with your old nail and vengeful spirit

[coarse leaf]

i remember thinking the false knight was super hard personally on my first playthrough

[random wing]

Kings Pass
Dirtmouth
Forgotten Crossroads
Are pretty easy. It’s Greenpath that is the real start of the difficulty.

[static rose]

Same... I tried to find another way out of crossroads lmao

[split tide]

Difficulty is subjective at the end of the day

[uncut citrus]

A lot of ppls don’t even use spells at this point, cause even that much time isn’t enough for them to get used to that spell, 1-2h really isn’t that much

[split tide]

It very much depends on the player

[digital glen]

Theres some people that i recomended hollow knight, and for some of them its simply doesnt work, metroidvania, or any other way you wanna call it, is not for every one

[hybrid stone]

exactly, like in other hard games it gives you time to get used to base moves and then throws you into a difficulty spike

[digital glen]

That person also pointed out that the combat was "too simple" at the beggining

[static rose]

Help channel in a nutshell

[coarse leaf]

tbh who uses nail arts anyway, i almost never personally

[split tide]

As for me I’m fine with the minimal movement set that the knight has at the start of the game, so I don’t mind something similar in silksong if it were to transpire

[static rose]

Markoth ig

[ripe crest]

me!

[random wing]

It’s a me Nailsage Luigi!

[static rose]

Narts work in colos and markoth

[digital glen]

I personally dont bother with have to wait for the abilities, but for people that are having problem with getting hooked, it could a "problem"

[chilly breach]

idk, I find greenpath to be easy, I think it was, mantis lords was first that gave me a hard time. And that just took me getting nail upgrade, deepnest was hard too. And then once I just got another nail upgrade, It got, really easy again, hornet 2 was first fight in a while that I strugged on, then after that, I did abyss and shit, and then came back to see my save file corrupted.

[split tide]

Narts are super strong if you get used to them, but that’s going into #hk-discussion

[random wing]

It was actually Ascended Markoth that taught me how to use Nailarts.

[uncut citrus]

Yeah most of it is #hk-discussion rn

[copper nest]

Thing is, if they give all movement at the start of SS, it won't give any wonder to get later and can allow people to be very lost and not know what to do. There'd be too much to do and not to mention no learning to do and hard to master stuff

[static rose]

Same

[split tide]

Yeah that’s a valid issue

[random wing]

@static rose You’ll beat Absolute Radiance. I believe in you!

[split tide]

Giving too much to people at the start not only lessens the impact of later upgrades, but players may easily be overwhelmed

[digital glen]

ss-discussion never keeps on topic, there are discussions about cookies, foods, colonization and ender lillies

But yeah, grimm taught me the strenght of nailarts, even more with nailmaster glory

[split tide]

Like in HK the player has a lot of time and space to learn about using the nail and basic movement

[ripe crest]

Yes rad grimm I used narts alot

[chilly breach]

tc said something along the lines of making silksong accesible to ppl who haven't played hollow knight, which makes me think the early game could be a little easy for veterans, but I hope that easy does not translate into boring, I find a lot of easy shit that is still very fun.

[surreal crown]

Bro cyclone slash is underrated

[digital glen]

Narts are very good for fairly safe damage

[ripe crest]

true

[split tide]

Balancing SS to HK veterans is a terrible idea

[full rune]

itll probably translate to boring early game for those who like hard stuff

[chilly breach]

narts are what I put primal aspids to sleep with.

[digital glen]

I Love stunning hornet 1 before she even starts to fight

[copper nest]

I mean there's a learning curve for us as Hornet has a very different move set and stuff from the Knight

[hybrid stone]

exactly

[static rose]

43 radiant. 1 attuned.

[chilly breach]

I expect the difficulty for veterans to come with learning hornet's movement and kit.

[surreal crown]

Good thing we know that isn't happening.

[digital glen]

Giving an cyclone slash in rad galien in the start

[split tide]

Yeah it’s good that TC isn’t doing that

[terse idol]

Kanye should compose music for Silksong

🤔

[haughty brook]

Also SS being friendly to newcomers is also referring to lore, so don't expect big "in the previous episode" flashback cutscene.

[chilly breach]

I really can't wait for the silksong score, If HK is anything to go off, I'm buying that vinyl when it comes out.

[terse idol]

I'm joking

[haughty brook]

Who is Kayne?

[static rose]

My next door neighbor's 8 year old who's playing the flute for her class performance should write the music for silksong

[marsh ibex]

They mean not changing the difficulty to be much harder

Same level of general difficulty

[surreal crown]

Nicholas Cage should voice the final boss

[terse idol]

idk

[digital glen]

We were talkibg about that the other day, but yeah most people think that the story will no be very connected

[terse idol]

Sounds nice

[random wing]

Damn I only got Attuned and Ascended cleared. That’s impressive, keep up the good work. Now I guess I have to get myself polished again and try to do Radiant.

[marsh ibex]

which is fine because it’s a different game, and we’ll have to learn new stuff

[full rune]

same level of general difficulty but we all know the early game so it's gonna be

[marsh ibex]

Zaliant you are literally working on pale court

You can’t speak

[full rune]

am i

[chilly breach]

honestly, make bindings a thing in the base game, like you could make a save where you can't have any nail upgrades, one mask, one soul recharge, etc. That would be fun.

[surreal crown]

I feel like Silksong will start off simple but end up with a higher skill level than HK

[split tide]

And I mean even base moveset hornet seems reasonably different from base moveset HK

[marsh ibex]

so silk soul mode

[copper nest]

I mean, I find HK really hard as it is... If they made SS harder I might not be able to play 😅

[digital glen]

I doubt that those people who died to moss mother didnt played hk

[static rose]

Yea but you've done p5, unlike me, because I don't have the patience to sit through half an hour of loading screen

[random wing]

Ghost not Hollow Knight.

[split tide]

That would actually be an interesting approach to cater to HK veterans

[split tide]

Right thanks for correction

[marsh ibex]

I’m kidding I don’t know what silk soul mode is supposed to see

[digital glen]

What i mean is that getting used to Hornet could be harder than we think

[surreal crown]

Yo let's speculate on what silksoul mode is

[random wing]

My pleasure!

[chilly breach]

true question, if they were to add difficulty options, would it be better to make the game around the player harder, or restrain the player.

[marsh ibex]

isn’t that just a no upgrades run

[static rose]

Tk is hollow-er than the hollow knight :P

[chilly breach]

nah, it's cursed cause one mask one recharge.

[marsh ibex]

and glass soul

wdym one recharge

[chilly breach]

is glass soul vanilla I thought it was a mod

[split tide]

And like 3 damage with nail binding

[random wing]

But not truly hollow.

[marsh ibex]

no it’s not vanilla but you can just

[ripe crest]

mod

[chilly breach]

like one use of soul.

[marsh ibex]

So…no soul vessel upgrades?

[chilly breach]

nono, one heal one spell ur drained period

[split tide]

I think they mean full binding

[marsh ibex]

that’s just not fun

[split tide]

So max is 33 soul for HK

[digital glen]

Lets make silksoul mode more boring than steelsoul

[static rose]

Depends whether stuff like helping elderbug and zote are canon, which, as team cherry has stated, everything the player does is equally canon

[marsh ibex]

doing that for a whole game is not fun and that would just be no upgrades for silksong

[chilly breach]

psssst it's a challenge mode, it doesn't have to be fun for everyone

[marsh ibex]

Since your whole thing is 3 mask heal and use all your silk

[split tide]

Isn’t hell mod something similar?

Oh right that’s true for SS

[digital glen]

I dont see they just making enemies with more health, or just more enemies

[split tide]

Healing is different

[paper umbra]

silksong will actually get rid of hollow knights combat system in favor of a point and click way if storytelling

[chilly breach]

anyway this was my question though

[marsh ibex]

that’s a different kind of challenge, it’s a manner of tedium

[surreal crown]

New boss mechanics in silksoul mode (similar to expert mode in Terraria) would be pretty cool. Maybe even include special powerful tools from them.

[marsh ibex]

And half the stuff you noted you can already do

[uncut citrus]

No we’ll spend all early game (and the rest of the game, actually) hitting walls so it won’t be boring

[random wing]

What’s point a click?

[static rose]

Should silksong have a "veteran mode" that makes it harder for people who have played hollow knight

[analog forge]

Restraining the player is stupid for difficulty

[digital glen]

I know theres re and ss have nothing to do to each other, but silksoul could be kinda of side B

[analog forge]

It just encourages boring strategies

[paper umbra]

it's a game where you point and click, idk how to describe it beyond that

[marsh ibex]

didn’t you also complain earlier about no dash and walljump earlier

This is a weird retraction

[chilly breach]

wait wait. just make the game radiant, all enemies radiant. sorry buddy you are glass.

[digital glen]

"You clearly don't own a airfrier"

[full rune]

would be nice but i dont expect it lol

[split tide]

What about bindings in the pantheons

[marsh ibex]

zoinks

[full rune]

optional

[split tide]

I meant for optional difficulty though

[marsh ibex]

every annoying enemy is now 15 times worse for a difficulty option

[random wing]

To me she looks like a walking and talking Banzai Bill from Super Mario.

[split tide]

Like obviously not for the base difficulty

[chilly breach]

just call this new radiant mode, "I hate myself"

[surreal crown]

Bro Bowser is in Deep Docks?

[full rune]

is this just artificially inflated values difficulty or like actual different kind of difficulty

[marsh ibex]

every enemy now one shots you

[paper umbra]

I don't like difficulty modes in games because it's rare that they're done well beyond making enemies into tedious hp sponges, I hope silksong sticks with a base difficulty

[marsh ibex]

clearly different kind of difficulty

[haughty brook]

For some reason I rewatched the old Matrix Trilogy and realized how similar the Eternal Ordeal and the Neo vs Smith clone army in Reloaded looked like.

[digital glen]

Its just officialized randomizer

[chilly breach]

if there is some equivelent kind of primal aspid

[uncut citrus]

Always making the game harder, restrictions are, well, restrictions, if it’s less damage that’s basically like making the enemy have more hp so that’s basically making the world harder, but if it’s abilities actually changing/removed then it just feels like you have less control and less things you can do, making it more frustrating

[marsh ibex]

instead of playing silksong, which is meant to be a faster game

[full rune]

then that'd be good for us but not for development lol

[surreal crown]

That boi got a beer belly

[static rose]

Is it more likely ss is the size of hk or twice as big. I've heard both ways.

[marsh ibex]

you will slow down at literally every opportunity to not get oneshot

[paper umbra]

exactly

[analog forge]

Pantheon bindings are known to be stupid

[chilly breach]

sounds like hell and not fun to most

[marsh ibex]

two times the size of hk is really fucking gigantic

[chilly breach]

only something vggamechamp would do honestly

[split tide]

Something like full radiant for the game sounds pretty bad in general

[marsh ibex]

and yeah a lot of people don’t actually like the bindings

[split tide]

Since in HK, and presumably in SS too, it’s reasonable to expect to get hit a lot

[static rose]

More of a dream than a reality, but no one said I couldn't dream

[haughty brook]

Honestly at most SS should be 1.5 at map size.

[ripe crest]

1.5x seems more reasonable

[surreal crown]

Twice the size wouldn't surprise me. How many benches does SS have so far compared to HK?

[chilly breach]

a lot of ppl didn't like that some endings were locked behind the most painful challenge in game

[marsh ibex]

shell is fine, it makes you optimize your runs

[split tide]

Ah so that’s the general consensus on bindings

[random wing]

Bowser has trapped the princess in a book! I guess she’s some sort of multi demential spy for him?

[marsh ibex]

but nail bro? That makes every pantheon take longer

[paper umbra]

I feel like silk song will definitely be larger than hk but how much so is anyone's guess considering team cherry are utterly insane and gluttons for punishment when it comes to game development

[static rose]

More benches means either bigger map or more bosses

[digital glen]

Wouldnt dry bowser work better in deep docks?

[marsh ibex]

charm binding removes one of the linchpins of the game

and soul binding is ok-ish

[random wing]

Dude that’s sick!

[chilly breach]

it's looking like ss is going to be... quite huge.

[uncut citrus]

Well it will probably be two time the size in map, for hornet needs way more space to move and everything seems way more open than in hollow knight, but then if the game will be twice as big not sure

[static rose]

The bindings should have been more balanced, nail binding is SO MUCH EASIER than charm binding

[surreal crown]

Good point

[chilly breach]

I also really hope they add slopes

[random wing]

Oro and Mato
Sheo
Sly

[chilly breach]

or some sort of non boxy shit

[static rose]

Doubtful considering how broken they were in hk

[split tide]

Yeah nail binding is pretty boring in it’s own right

[marsh ibex]

nail binding

[chilly breach]

hk map be like, grid

[surreal crown]

Doesn't feel like a grid though

[random wing]

Ohhh my bad.

[marsh ibex]

square map design doesn’t mean grid

[paper umbra]

hk map was so confusing on my first playthrough

[static rose]

The best part

[chilly breach]

even super metroid had slopes, hell mario maker 2 introduced slopes because ppl were angry at no slopeage.

[marsh ibex]

because it was a game in which you made your own game

mfw

[fleet temple]

yeah, I want to feel that in ss again

[chilly breach]

still, slopes

[paper umbra]

hollow knight is really the dark souls of slope design

[analog forge]

Tbf mario is a game where slopes have implications

[surreal crown]

HK and SS have no slopes cause Australia is flat AF

[analog forge]

Due to sliding

[marsh ibex]

That too

[chilly breach]

I feel like slopes would really help with ss movement, as instead of having to constantly jump hornet could run across a smooth surface.

[random wing]

Ghost acquires Monarch Wings a Wall Jump ability, so the flat walls are justified.

[marsh ibex]

…

[static rose]

My biggest worry for ss is that now I've played a metroidvania (hk was my first) it'll be much easier and my playtime will be a ton lower, as well as things being less monumental

[chilly breach]

speed, think of speed.

[marsh ibex]

so… a straight line

but not diagonal

because hornet’s sprint doesn’t have momentum

[surreal crown]

What if Hornet slides down slopes with a special animation, and can run back up them with Sprint?

[chilly breach]

I would honestly like ss movement with momentum, I feel like momentum would really help the weighty feel of hornet.

[uncut citrus]

Would be kinda cool ngl* (bruh my phone too used to me saying NKG)

[static rose]

I really hope I find some sequence break moments in ss... in hk I found dreamnail through peaks before even getting claw and it was such an epic moment, walking into somewhere I didn't belong

[marsh ibex]

ok yeah just add a physics system to a video game

[paper umbra]

hollow knight was my first and last metroidvania because it's the only one I found that had an interesting narrative and world

[marsh ibex]

That’s not hard to do at all

[static rose]

Last, until silksong

[chilly breach]

yo, I'm just giving my opinion, not asking for anything, I don't demand my silly ideas be added to an already in development game

[split tide]

SS will probably have many sequence breaks, both intentional and unintentional, like HK does

[marsh ibex]

I mean yeah, but some ideas do have to make sense

[random wing]

That would be super awesome, but Pharloom is a stable civilization and Hornet does not have access to mind entering.

[marsh ibex]

somehow sega can’t make a functioning physics system

[chilly breach]

hollow knight 3, a character with momentum and speed. And no I'm not asking for a sonic metroidvania although that would be cool as fuck.

[static rose]

Do yall think silksong will have a better best boss? Idk how tc could beat pv but I'd love to see them try

[chilly breach]

I don't get it, they nailed it with sonic 2 and fucking biffed it almost every other time, best physics was literally made by fans.

[paper umbra]

silknight 2 electric bugaloo

[uncut citrus]

I assume you started typing before I edited from the size of your text but yeahhhh... I meant ngl

[coarse leaf]

it'd be kinda weird to have accurate momentum in some parts though when she can literally boost herself midair

[static rose]

hk 3 = zoteboat

[uncut citrus]

That’s definitely a bruh moment

[chilly breach]

honestly I feel as if a lot of my ideas don't work because they are not HK.

[paper umbra]

silksong needs more bug physics

[chilly breach]

I'm a not a game designer tho, and I can't make bug physics

[static rose]

If silksong is a prequel I hope we get a zote game as a sequel in 2043

[marsh ibex]

there’s a lot of stuff that sounds cool

like golden gauntlets in silksong

i want that

[static rose]

Guesses for silksong release? I'm thinking late 2022

[marsh ibex]

and it probably won’t work

[uncut citrus]

No fall dmg is big physics, also TK falls pretty slowly, thought hornet will be heavier so faster to fall

[paper umbra]

this will either age extremely well or poorly in the coming months

[chilly breach]

now I just really want a metroidvania with sonic physics and combat, combining combat with classic sonic physics idk how that would turn out.

[ripe crest]

summer 2022

[hybrid stone]

nah im thinking early

[random wing]

My main hope for Silksong is that the bosses doesn’t undermine Pure Vessel and Nightmare King Grimm.

[chilly breach]

imagine if they just shadowdrop ss

[hybrid stone]

im thinking february earliest, june latest

[coarse leaf]

i wonder how much void actually weighs

[hybrid stone]

yeah they just release on like a random night in the middle of january, without tellinng anyone

[uncut citrus]

Probably varies a lot, some floats and other is liquid

[hybrid stone]

Hornet. Is not. VOID.

[paper umbra]

copium overdose

[static rose]

I hope, but after geometry dash's 4 year wait I'm conditioned to think it'll be longer

[coarse leaf]

i meant tk lol

[chilly breach]

do you think void exists in pharloom?

[static rose]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yea ur right

[hybrid stone]

heres my theory, gd and ss release on the same day

[paper umbra]

I think earliest q3 2022 latest q1 2023

[static rose]

Ye with half life 3 too

[hybrid stone]

and gta6

[static rose]

Ofc ofc

[narrow lava]

I think maybe a miniature area will have void themes or something, but nothing as big as hallownest

[chilly breach]

I've been worried recently that ss is falling to one of the classic game dev blunders, scope creep.

[static rose]

This would be the single most epic moment of my life and potentially indie game history

[ripe crest]

grammarly makes your writing clear and concise

[uncut citrus]

The void in TK might be really light since they got a nail that have stone weight, yet they don’t nearly fall as fast as a stone would

[static rose]

Grammarly is canon in silksong

[hybrid stone]

my idea is that void is universal, kinda like soul is (assuming silk is a manifestation of soul), but unlike hallownest pharloom isnt so connected to void

[ripe crest]

Yes

Tc told me

[coarse leaf]

idk if thats a problem for them, they've got basically as much time and money to do whatevr they want

[static rose]

Not exactly how gravity works but close enough

[uncut citrus]

We were talking about TK

[chilly breach]

like it's gonna be 2255 and tc are gonna be like "okay, we are so close to being done, time to add simulated consciousness for npc's in ss"

[narrow lava]

I wonder if cannons will be canon in SS

[chilly breach]

bell cannons!

[uncut citrus]

No I mean since TK has a nail that means even if TK was really light they would still fall at around that speed so they might be really light

[hybrid stone]

lmaoooo

[coarse leaf]

backers get their consciousness uploaded to their npcs

[hybrid stone]

fall speed ≠ weight

[narrow lava]

what about feathers

[uncut citrus]

I mean hornet is said to fall faster because she weight more

[chilly breach]

buzz aldrin proved 50 years ago that weight =/= fall speed

[static rose]

Fall speed = aerodynamicy

[hybrid stone]

so light that air resistance effects it more

[narrow lava]

you mean so light that gravity effects it less

[static rose]

Not very aerodynamic

[uncut citrus]

That doesn’t really make sense

[chilly breach]

see he showed how it worked cause he went to a place with no air resistance, the moon, now imo they coulda just dropped em in a vaccuum chamber but the moon is fine too.

[hybrid stone]

tip for yall: go to fucking school and actually pay attention during physics, this is the modt basic thing ever lmao

[digital glen]

Everytime i open this server i play a game that is "guess what they are talking about in ss discussion" this channel never disappoints me

[static rose]

Physics class is sooooo boring cuz my teacher is teaching me the stuff I learned in 6th grade

[chilly breach]

If I took a drink for every time ss-discussion went off topic, my liver would be a raisin.

[narrow lava]

every one knows that 1 pound of feathers weigh less than 1 pound of steel || I say this to make sure everyone knows im just doing abit of trolling ||

[hybrid stone]

maybe u shoulda listened in 6th grade then :)

[uncut citrus]

Ok let’s not start physics class here, hornet is confirmed to weight more than TK and I’m not even sure she actually fall faster, she accelerate faster for sure so yeah that’s about it

[chilly breach]

well, she is more aerodynamic

[static rose]

i DID, it's boring cuz I know it already and my high school expects that I dont

[chilly breach]

I wonder if we'll have a glide with the bell shaped cloak?

[split tide]

It’s surface area and stuff that affects fall speed and acceleration in a not-vacuum environment yeah

[hybrid stone]

more weight means air resistance has less of an effect due to more inertia

[static rose]

Decent possibility tbh

[hybrid stone]

glide is confirmed

[shell yacht]

Seths combat is basically gonna be Tisos concept in most respects

[narrow lava]

no, wind resistance is a myth made up by car companies to sell more cars

[chilly breach]

what

[tender swift]

who is seth again

[calm night]

leth nemesis

[slate wagon]

Seth Rogan

[uncut citrus]

Someone send Seth fight gif I’m on mobile I can’t access my favs

[craggy turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/laying-down-money-cash-rich-feeling-it-gif-17083476

car companies after inventing travel

[static rose]

Finally somebody notices! I'm beginning to think that Seth watched mossbag's cut content video and said "I really wish tiso got his bossfight"

[digital glen]

Seth Rogan is gonna voice act Seth?

[shell yacht]

when was Mossbags cut content video?

[static rose]

Like 2018

[coarse leaf]

seth has a nail tho unlike tiso so i would imagine its pretty different

[tender swift]

3 years ago

[shell yacht]

hmm

[narrow lava]

I think you mean after they invent gas?

[static rose]

It was in the right time period

[craggy turtle]

that would be gas companies after inventing cars

[chilly breach]

seems to be plenty of unique weapons to use in ss, I wonder if they'll be as or more important than the charm analogue

[narrow lava]

sir, what im about to tell you is a shocker, but they are one and the same

[uncut citrus]

They also invented school and work so ppls actually need cars

[coarse leaf]

fills up gas with car

[static rose]

Guys today I asked graig if silksong was gonna be a present for Christmas 2021 and he said yes

[shell yacht]

go back to bed

[uncut citrus]

Ah yes graig, more reliable source of info

[craggy turtle]

Graig, my favorite silksong leaker, so very trustworthy, 12/10 yelp review

[static rose]

No, he's telling the truth. Wait negative 2 days and you'll see

[narrow lava]

wait til yesterday and you will see, you all will see

[craggy turtle]

time starts running backwards

[chilly breach]

sorry for being gone half a minute I just beat silksong! It's honestly greater than anything I've ever played, no greater than anything I've ever watched! Masterpiece Masterpiece I say, it released o- gunshot

[uncut citrus]

[narrow lava]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/875149782736338974.gif?v=1

[shell yacht]

they were never seen again

[static rose]

Graig also confirmed to me that team cherry is in fact dead

Major silksong news ik

[ripe crest]

Ss is going to be released on feb 29th

[uncut citrus]

I mean obviously Australia sunk into the ocean 5months ago

[craggy turtle]

Graig confirmed that team cherry pooled their DNA and combined it with a cherry to create their new CEO and are now retiring

[narrow lava]

SS will be released december 32st

[static rose]

Silksong will be released

[uncut citrus]

Omg only a few weeks

[static rose]

Can you believe it guys? Just a week away!

[ripe crest]

No feb 29th because that's an actual date

[craggy turtle]

We use 'release' here with the same meaning as 'let go'

[eternal geode]

lmao, I just found this channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/DailySilksongNews/videos

[craggy turtle]

In the hiring industry

[static rose]

It's beautiful, innit

[ripe crest]

you JUST found it

[coarse leaf]

i imagine most videos are saying there are no news

[eternal geode]

I know, late to the party XD

[static rose]

Not most. ALL.

[uncut citrus]

I think we all know about DSN at this point (kinda sad when you think about it)

[narrow lava]

sir, I think you missed the joke, or I did. I am not sure at this point

[coarse leaf]

glorious

[ripe crest]

Nah I got the joke

[eternal geode]

On a serious topic though - when WAS the last time we heard anything on Silksong again?

[uncut citrus]

31th dec last year

[ripe crest]

from TC or in general

[eternal geode]

from TC

[uncut citrus]

Edge

[ripe crest]

this then

[craggy turtle]

If you count Graig's totally trustworthy words, today

[hollow sedge]

December 31st, 2020

[chilly breach]

actually, they combined the brains of team cherry, the cherry, and a scarab beetle, to create cherrybeetle, now listen very closely the cherrybeetle is not a friend he wi-

[static rose]

I strongly believe that silksong won't have dlc

[rotund mason]

There was that Nvidia leak that seem to claim a February 2022 release, though it's likely that was just a placeholder.

[uncut citrus]

What the heck

Ok I’m out cya

[craggy turtle]

t̵͗͛h̷̾̈́e̸̓́ ̷̈́̾c̸̔́ḥ̷̋e̸͊̕r̵̅͐ř̵̄y̷̆̐

[ripe crest]

I assume a summer 2022 or late 2022 release date

[coarse leaf]

cheetle

[static rose]

It makes sense, however. From the bench count and some complaints from graig we can judge that silksong already has more content than hk, which means that they are probably about to go into or are currently in bugfixing and playtesting.

[uncut citrus]

Silksong will definitely be bigger than HK, but we don’t know how much, they don’t have to stop there and release t when it’s as big or barely bigger

[rotund mason]

It's probably safe to expect that SS will have at least as much content at launch as HK with all the DLCs.

[chilly breach]

Unlike hollow knight Silksong has as much time as it needs without tc going broke mid dev

[split tide]

I do hope that they don’t go overboard

I don’t think they will at least

[static rose]

I don't think silksong will have any dlcs because tc obviously wants to cram everything they can think of before releasing, otherwise it would be out already.

[rotund mason]

Hopefully SS won't feel too bloated. HK is already abnormally long for Metroidvania standards.

[split tide]

Part of it is probably stamping out major bugs too

And just polishing in general

[rotund mason]

TC strikes me as the kind of people who don't know when to stop adding stuff.

[coarse leaf]

HK may be long but besides the slow start of the game every moment was enjoyable so its not a problem imo

[chilly breach]

If Silksong ever has dlc it will probably be some sort of big content update adding a new area and bosses, like Grimm troupe or godhome

[split tide]

HK does have an incredible amount of content if you include DLCs

[thorn grotto]

I just want Forest of Bones back

[chilly breach]

I really hope the first half of the game is as fleshed as second half in ss

[digital glen]

I played hk this year, does the wait gets worse or better?

I am being dramatic

[coarse leaf]

ive stopped waiting for a release date

it'll come when it does

besides i wanna get all the achievements before ss comes out

[digital glen]

Iam not waiting for release date, but just the tought about playing ss gets me so hyped up

[rotund mason]

My first playthrough of HK took me around 25 or so hours to reach the Dream No More ending. In contrast Metroid Dread, Iconoclasts, Axiom Verge, and both Ori games only took around 12 hours each.

[shell yacht]

you mean you didnt get stuck on a boss for 20+ hours?

[coarse leaf]

huh, iirc it took me around 40 or 50

[knotty dragon]

my main save is currently 80 hours

[coarse leaf]

but i do try to complete most side stuff before getting the ending

[shell yacht]

id need to boot uo to see my hours but uh... 80h is low i got stuck on multiple bosses

[rotund mason]

My time on Steam says 55 hours and I've done 2 full playthroughs, so I assume my first one is around 30-35 hours.

[coarse leaf]

180 hours

this is what happens when you try to beat all bosses on radiant

[rotund mason]

I've never even touched Godhome.

[random wing]

Go try it out.

Best content in Hollow Knight.

[digital glen]

My main save is with 100h, 80 to do dream no more ending, and more 20h to do p5

[opaque sigil]

Eh, godhome is kinda antithetical to the things that HK did well

[split tide]

Yeah godhome is just bosses entirely

It doesn’t have any real exploration

[shell yacht]

godhomes just bad if you want to understand lore
i love bossrush

[coarse leaf]

well its a different appeal than the rest of the game

[random wing]

My only reason for me doing Godhome was for Pure Vessel, until Pantheon of Hallownest became my next target.

[digital glen]

I like boss rush but i understand the people who dont like it

[random wing]

I do too.

[opaque sigil]

I'm not saying it's bad, it's just a mismatch

HK isn't the kind of game where a boss rush makes sense as the culmination of a run

[digital glen]

A bit of a shame that PV, for me, one of the best bosses, is locked behind 4 pantheons

[opaque sigil]

It pulls you out of the intricate, interconnected world for the remainder of a playthrough

[random wing]

That makes the battle even more perfect!

[digital glen]

Why?

[coarse leaf]

you do forget how the rest of the game feels like after spending tens of hours in godhome

[static rose]

It's not for everyone but I LOVE godhome because the feeling of being perfect is incredible

[opaque sigil]

I'm not saying it's bad

It's just not something that is part of a consistent experience with HK, it skews the game pretty heavily

[static rose]

If you can't beat p1-3 ur gonna struggle with pv

[digital glen]

NKG and PV is not a large stretch

But i guess that would be hard to put PV in the base game

[static rose]

I disagree, the only hard thing about nkg is its massive health pool

[opaque sigil]

GSM is great because it lets you fight pantheon bosses like PV, SoB, and Winged Nosk without dealing with the tedium of pantheons

[digital glen]

I dont think anyone is saying that godhome is bad, its just not for everyone

[split tide]

Yeah it’s very different from the rest of the game

[coarse leaf]

sly is harder than nkg

fuck sly

[static rose]

Harder than pv too

[versed pollen]

Most people tend to find PV and NKG roughly the same difficulty in my experience

[static rose]

Watcher knights is the hardest radiant of the 43 I've done... yall know what the last one is...

[opaque sigil]

Yeah that's fair

[split tide]

NKG skills transfer over to PV too, and vice versa

[coarse leaf]

sly radiant is a paiin

[digital glen]

But youre not gonna get better at PV defeating the same bosses that you already defeated

[static rose]

For sure, because they both contain 0% jank

[digital glen]

Yeah

[static rose]

Ur gonna get better at the GAME, tho, but yea I get ur point

[opaque sigil]

How well you fare against a boss is as much about knowledge of their patterns as anything else

Practicing against other bosses will not teach you the patterns

[digital glen]

I surprised myself how much i suffered at rad sly and oro and mato

[digital glen]

Makes sense

[coarse leaf]

its his second damn phase

[static rose]

I didn't even TRY rad oro and mato until I was at like 35 radiants

[split tide]

it's moreso that someone who has already beat NKG is more well-equipped to beat PV than someone who hasn't and vice versa

[digital glen]

Guess the only one that you didnt do in rad was absrad right?

[static rose]

I love how I've gotten 43 radiants and still don't have ascended hall of gods

[coarse leaf]

pv and nkg feel very similar

[random wing]

The anticipation of the battle, as Ghost battles their foes from the past and some familiar faces. Then in one single room the Black Egg and Godhome create the most spectacular place of penance. After that all Ghost can see is the most intimating and blinding Knight of Pure Pale Void and Creation. Finally in all of sound and silence, the holy music of a voice that cannot crying suffering can be heard. Pure Vessel, Hollowed by thy name!

[digital glen]

I cried

[coarse leaf]

i always finish ascended and normal before doing radiant

[split tide]

ascended is mandatory for radiant

[digital glen]

But, talking in a narrative standpoint, yeah it totally works

[viral orchid]

Silksong news?

[coarse leaf]

its coming on the first of 2022

[random wing]

Pure Vessel is my favorite boss in all of gaming and my favorite character in Hollow Knight, so I can get really overjoyed real quick.

[static rose]

It should be that way with bindings... who on earth is beating a pantheon with bindings before beating it normally

[coarse leaf]

well it might be annoying if you've already finished godseeker one time and want to redo it ig

[split tide]

low% godhome ending speedrun (super edge case, but it exists)

[digital glen]

Quoted the wrong message sorry

[split tide]

and honestly I don't see a problem with just letting radiant being available from the get go either

[static rose]

Nobody should run this, and almost no one does

[static rose]

If one than both

[young saffron]

if ss releases in feb it would suck for me
cause feb is mid terms and end of march is term exam

[split tide]

yeah, but it doesn't affect you if you don't choose to use bindings

[coarse leaf]

hopefully ss releases during summer vacations

[static rose]

Sorry for your loss by I want my sliksog

[young saffron]

I mean I wouldnt mind it ofc, I just have to pre study shit "pre study"

[static rose]

Literally just become smarter my guy no need to study 🧠

[brisk bolt]

are you meming or was this confirmed

[random wing]

Pure Vessel is way more difficult than Nightmare King Grimm. Nightmare King Grimm’s attacks are fast and overwhelming, when the player adapts. His attacks can easily be called out. Pure Vessel on the other hand has fast paced and overwhelming attacks like Nightmare King Grimm, but is very difficult to call out on like shared animations. So yes I 100% completely agree with you!

[coarse leaf]

i am in fact meming

[young saffron]

tried that, almost failed my maths test

[digital glen]

Imagine TC delays the game just because of you, the death threats would be directed to you

[random wing]

Why am I typing essays all of a sudden?

[young saffron]

I agree.

[coarse leaf]

i beat PV a lot faster than NKG but that might be because i beat NKG first

[random wing]

It took me 1 week and 5 days to beat Nightmare King Grimm.
It took me 2 days to beat Pure Vessel.

[digital glen]

My friends hyped him up waaay too much

[random wing]

Who

[digital glen]

NKG

[random wing]

I hyped Pure Vessel way too much for me!

[coarse leaf]

it took me 7 hours straight to beat NKG and around 1 hour for pv

[digital glen]

I was able to beat him in one afternoon

[static rose]

Still the games best fight

[random wing]

New ally has been made!

[static rose]

Yo pog

[digital glen]

Even tho PV is not my favorite boss, i gotta agree is probably the best, is always fun fighting him

[random wing]

I respect that reasoning.

@static rose Also nice profile picture!

[digital glen]

Hey @static rose, guessing from you nickname, i guess rad absrad is the only one left in you godhome?

[static rose]

A lot of people don't understand it but it's from an old custom biome I made on a superflat. The world got deleted when my computer suddenly broke so this image has a lot of meaning to me. But I might have to change it to explosive zote. He's a hotty.

[static rose]

Also missing ascended absrad

[coarse leaf]

have you gotten golden zote

[digital glen]

Dont you have tod do ascended to unlock radiant?

[coarse leaf]

gotta not forget that one

[fallow rock]

okay everyone on this channel i have come with a special annoucement with a idea

[random wing]

That’s amazing that you made a biome look like it’s part of a normal world, being on a super flat. Keep up the good work fellow vessel!

[random wing]

What

[fallow rock]

okay hear me out but hollow knight bug fables crossover game

[coarse leaf]

nah............

[random wing]

I don’t understand.

[fallow rock]

that it's events take place during hornet journey into pharloom

or after take your pick

[random wing]

I can’t wait to play as Hornet, because she’s my second favorite character in Hollow Knight!

[young saffron]

I cant wait to play as tiso! wait..

[random wing]

Insert PIXAR Theme.

[fleet temple]

Imagine wanting to play as tiso, I'll play as myla instea- oh

[young saffron]

imagine playing as elderbug 💀

[random wing]

I actually kill Myla now.

[fiery coral]

[random wing]

For geo and satisfaction!

[digital glen]

Imagine the flying mechanics implementented with Menderbu- oh wait

[coarse leaf]

always make sure to kill myla and to kill the nailsmith with vengeful spirit

[fleet temple]

I wonder if they'll have tank controls for cloth- oh, right

[digital glen]

Iam telling you Combat Bretta is gonns be the hardest boss in ss

[fallow rock]

guys guys you won't believe it

[random wing]

Uses fan fiction book as leverage!

[fallow rock]

there making something original and it's a site to behold and what not

[digital glen]

TC had to put her dragon tooth in traitor lord arena in pantheon so every time i have to remember her

[fallow rock]

#hk-meme is make and i crap you not original meme content

[young saffron]

they did?

[coarse leaf]

This is some next level impatience, theres a silksong channel and not actually a silksong game

[digital glen]

Yeah

[young saffron]

yes

[fleet temple]

impossible

[random wing]

Traitor Lord is better than Sisters of Battle.

[fallow rock]

look for yourself

[digital glen]

Im my friends save it doesnt have her club, since she didnt died in his save

[shell yacht]

banned

[fleet temple]

oh my gorb...

[fallow rock]

no do you believe me

[fleet temple]

yes, I saw it

[young saffron]

get out

[random wing]

No!

[young saffron]

d a m n

holy shit im so bored I got nothing to do

[fallow rock]

but he's not wrong though

[random wing]

Let’s A Go!

[fiery coral]

Let's a go out of this server! 🪓

[static rose]

Lmao

[young saffron]

whats the point of putting platform exclusive games? for example botw
Is it to make more sales towards nintendo? :V

[static rose]

Do r5ab

[young saffron]

I didnt even do p5 yet 💀

[static rose]

Same 💀

[random wing]

Luigi’s still here!

[shell yacht]

be quiet green mario

[static rose]

Poger luigi

[random wing]

I’m a plumber with many names.

[young saffron]

like disappointment!