That's kind of a bummer, but losing all your Geo before Watchers isn't actually that bad. You get 655 from Watchers, then 1,100 from Lemm. You only need to make up 45g on the way to Lantern, then 250 on the way to Beasts Den, which is totally doable.
#speedrunning
snow dome
Just for future reference.
Wait you also need 300 for King's
So you need 345g which means grabbing Rafter's Seal, which again isn't awful.
snow dome
There's backups all over the place
Genuinely the only place that i think you kill any% is dying after killing gorgeous Husk but before you manage to bench somewhere in city
Everywhere else has something to do
Also that's swipe type. I wish I had a swipe keyboard for my PC
hidden shale
hiya, is anyone here able to help me with finding out how to install a load normalizer? im starting to use 1.2.2.1 and ive heard a load normalizer is good for speedruns and is allowed
sorry if this is meant to be in modding, i wasnt sure which channel to put this in
analog monolith
load normalizer generally isnt useful for runs; ur not going to be running into anything that requires longer loads
it's more so for races, where it's better for ppl to have closer loads
but if u really want it regardless: #races-discussion message
true palm
loadd normalizer messes up cycles as well, and adds 2s to every load
highly recommend you avoid
normal aspen
yeah 0 reason to use the nmg load normaliser unless ur racing ppl
analog monolith
question
would it make some of my cycles better
im assuming no
and also that it's not worth lol
true palm
i mean ur loads are exceeding the 3s or whatever they are
i don't think the normalizer would help
steady lynx
Could it potentially make the console Goam cycle possible on PC?
snow dome
Can you not mimic Console cycles by streaming your run and then only play by watching your stream?
Should be a similar experience.
steady lynx
That only simulates the input lag
The worse you say it is the more impressive finishing 112 runs becomes
slim geyser
hiya, is anyone here able to help me with finding out how to install a load norm...
There is a load extender that is good for 1.0.2.8 runs, maybe you were thinking of that.
digital jewel
it wasn't possible before then glitchless
sleek plinth
oh cool
digital jewel
there used to be a toll in the dark room on the way to beast's den. so you needed lantern at least
sleek plinth
wasnt expecting that, i figured if that were the case it wouldve been a given, but it probably saves time
sleek plinth
there used to be a toll in the dark room on the way to beast's den. so you neede...
dude wow
this is making me want to play through all the versions even more now
ive been playing 1.2 because im trying to get hitless and its such a trip
mostly because i never played that early
but i went through the Minecraft Alphas and Betas a few times before too, those are the same feeling.
and i bet Hollow Knight is even better archived than Minecraft because it came out in 2017 rather than 2009 lol
snow dome
1.0.x.x Blue Lake is the greatest gaming experience of all time
steady lynx
Play through on 1.3.1.5 and realise why we allow 1.4+ for 107%
sleek plinth
im so intrigued by all of these comments
and a part of me doesnt want it spoiled 🤔
you guys got me curious now lol
steady lynx
Tldp the game is very janky on earlier patches
Wait
Tldp the game is very janky on earlier patches
sleek plinth
i just noticed your pfp is the upside down Hornet glitch too 
wait is 1.3 jankier than 1.2 tho?
that i dont mind being "spoiled"
steady lynx
1.3 is basically 1.4.2.4 but without Godhome and lacks the Crystal Guardian cheese and ability to hit Nosk while in the ceiling
1.3 was honestly just made so they wouldn't release 1.2 on console because the switch would run that at like 12fps
sleek plinth
wait, in 1.2, Desolate Dive and Descending Dark dont have that cooldown vulnerability?
been watching a few videos on speedruns and challenge runs and people in 1.2 seem to just spam DD
like literally spam, over and over, and they dont get hit
snow dome
Yes
sleek plinth
yes there is no cooldown?
snow dome
Yes you are correct
sleek plinth
thats jaw dropping
for hitless thats even kinda broken 
i might go for 1.4 after, as harder as it is
strong vessel
1.5 supremacy 😤
steady lynx
1424 supremacy
stone moon
so eh, my livesplit won't go to the foreground of my screen when playing hollow knight and its very anoying
can someone help me?
stuck raptor
turn off fullscreen
stone moon
how?
stuck raptor
if you still want the borderless look, add "-popupwindow" to your game launch options
stone moon
but my livesplit still won't go on the front screen
stone moon
yes
wooden mica
did my first ever recorded speedrun and got 1:17:51
I died to hollow knight 8 times and qg acid skip took me 10 minutes 😭
at least I know where to focus now 😂
slim geyser
nice and a good alternative to qga is just skipping queen's garden and going straight to deepnest via fungal wastes. The rout is in fire's guide. @wooden mica
unless you're really good at all of queens gardens you probably aren't saving much time by taking that rout.
but you know you could also do what i did and just go for QGA because it's fun and not care about timesave
wooden mica
but you know you could also do what i did and just go for QGA because it's fun a...
yeah I just like doing this route 😂
lucid sun
did my first ever recorded speedrun and got 1:17:51
Today I did my first run in 8 months of not playing because didn't had time, got a similar time, but I only died to watcher knights and uumuu. I just know it felt better than gettin my last achievement.
tepid thistle
i keep only killing one aspid with the double spike kill, what am I doing wrong?
stuck raptor
depends on the patch
tepid thistle
1.2.2.1
stuck raptor
double spike kill on that patch is very very hard
and rng dependent
but most likely, you're not hitting the spike high enough/fast enough
tepid thistle
did it :)
nimble halo
i am interested in speedrunning this game but routing is hard af any tips
steady lynx
Honestly, just join the discord in the pinned message and ask there
We're much more active there
amber ridge
and rng dependent
It’s really stupid how RNG depending this early trick actually is
slim geyser
it's not that rng dependant
if you react properly you can hit it 100% of the time
the timing is rng, but that's fine compared to like
shade fireball rng
where you lose 3 seconds for fun
amber ridge
I feel like the spawns don’t allow 100% accuracy. Sometimes the right one is too far right and doesn’t come left enough
slim geyser
most likely your setup is slightly off
if you stand too far to the left the angle of the spike hit is different
amber ridge
🤔
slim geyser
also if you hit the spike too high in the air the angle is different
amber ridge
I’ll have to try that my next go at the game
Btw you mentioned Fire’s guide a moment ago. Where is that located? I’m curious this route you mentioned
slim geyser
https://youtu.be/RLS9SH7MrO0?list=PLfkLKB8O1Ff0-AApWYqqgFjMcMMVaW_JH&t=638 here, even timestamped it to aspid arena
amber ridge
I died to hollow knight 8 times and qg acid skip took me 10 minutes 😭
Screw the acid skip. It’s the one thing that gives me the most trouble in the entire run
slim geyser
https://youtu.be/mA0lewYacyk?list=PLfkLKB8O1Ff0-AApWYqqgFjMcMMVaW_JH&t=2340 here is deepnest rout
amber ridge
Ah I’ve watched this before I think. Maybe not as much for Aspids though
slim geyser
if you send any clips of your attempts it will probably be easy to see what should be corrected or changed btw
i can also try to show you the way i do it if you want any help so don't be afraid to ping
stuck raptor
the aspid double kill is also only like a 1s timesave. really doesn't even matter
other things are going to be far more important, like learning to move optimally, and how to not die to bosses
slim geyser
^ overfocusing on cool tricks or early game is a common mistake, if you're trying to improve quickly
jovial mountain
^ it can be fun to try and optimize the early stuff you do everyone, but you don't need to worry too much about the small timesaves unless you really want to
stuck raptor
movement is by far the thing that separates the top runners from everyone else. top runners don't mess up dash timings, or jump timings, etc
if you're even a few frames late on every dash you do, you're losing minutes over the whole run
amber ridge
Right. I’ve been running Any% NMG and my best time is around 40 min
I’m wondering if skipping queens gardens is actually a better route for me
stuck raptor
so movement optimization is probably really important for you now
and QG saves 40s
pretty substantial
amber ridge
Well shit there’s no reason to go the other way
Honestly the acid skip is the worst. I can never hit it consistently. Second worst thing for my run is two cycle Uumuu. After that it’s just all the little things in the run that add time
I had a run that was going to be around 37 but I got screwed by acid skip
stuck raptor
sounds like the basics are there, just need to tighten things up now
make fights better, better movement, more consistency, etc
aka.... the hard part
amber ridge
Yes. I’ve practiced the whole route but need to just hit all the dashes and timing in specific areas
The damn golden grub gives me trouble sometimes and she jumps unpredictably early sometimes and messes me up
@stuck raptor do you speedrun any% and if so what’s your best time?
jovial mountain
btw EternalRedGame if you join the speedrun server (invite in pins) people will probably be able to answer your questions / look over any gameplay videos if you want advice on specific tricks
amber ridge
Womp womp
jovial mountain
the speedrunning community has essentially entirely moved there, and a lot of active runners have left this discord entirely
stuck raptor
Had multiple WRs, ran at gdq, etc. I think my 100% run is still WR
Maybe not anymore. There's been new stuff found since then
amber ridge
Nice
jovial mountain
I think you still have 100% nmms rekky?
amber ridge
Took me a minute to find the pins on mobile lol. Thanks for the info
shell drift
is there a trick to crystal dashing under the spike pillar thing
im really bad at that
i just learnt the speedrun like 2 weeks ago
jovial mountain
there is no trick, there just isn't much leniency for that particular acid skip
sleek plinth
double spike kill on that patch is very very hard
oh wtf seriously?
strong vessel
Yes; it's much easier on current patch
sleek plinth
you guys seem to know a lot about other versions of the game: can somebody please tell me what HP THK is 1.2.2.1? and their phases too, please.
sleek plinth
its faster in 1.4
just the wiki mentions something about 1300hp
but i dont think thats 1.2
snow dome
So you have your answer?
wicked trench
wasn't that 1250 hps?
something on the line of:
250hp first phase
450 second
300 third
250 forth
strong vessel
You mean, as an IL?
I mean, it's essentially already done in 1xx cats, but you would specifically wear certain charm builds and stuff (and so is WP but WP IL is its own cat), and also 1xx gets salubra and the center crossroads mask shard along the way
It sounds not very fun though, because risky strats are not fun once you add enemy RNG into the mix
gusty valve
I followed fireborns guide and beat the game in 2 hours and 28 minutes. I’m very happy with the speedrun 2 achievement lol. So close to all achievements
sleek plinth
So you have your answer?
no, it still isnt clear
sleek plinth
Wiki says 1250
thats 1.4
30th of October says 1300hp but im not sure its true or when it applies to
that source says 1300hp but apparently theyve always been 1250hp??? i dont know what to believe.
placid python
I finally figured out how to do the greenpath fireball skips, and it feels so good to execute them.
In other news, after >100 hours of playing the game, I discovered that quick cast is a thing.
royal arch
are fireball skips possible on 1.4.3.2?
queen birch
Is this a major glitch?
sleek plinth
Is this a major glitch?
im no expert or verifier but that looks like the equivalent of when you fall into thorns in Queens Gardens and you respawn right next to the switch
so my guess is its allowed
unless you meant something completely different
queen birch
unless you meant something completely different
I was talking about dashing with the stag menu open
sleek plinth
oh okay, that i dont know of.
wise ferry
apparently this is known?
I can do it without the extra fb at the end by slowing the game down a bit (I'm not great at fireball skips) but the c.dash version is like way easier than this
sleek plinth
142k+ geo
how many hours do you have in this game 
snow dome
Is this a major glitch?
Yes
snow dome
are fireball skips possible on 1.4.3.2?
Yes
snow dome
no, it still isnt clear
You can check but opening debug and going to fight THK. They're health with be in the enemy panel.
sleek plinth
You can check but opening debug and going to fight THK. They're health with be i...
true, but i didnt want to install mods in case it somehow alters my save files and make my runs invalid. mostly paranoia but yeah
sleek plinth
yeah i was just worried about it writing something into my save files like "THIS FILE IS MODDED" or something, but as long as i make a New Game in vanilla it should be fine
i have these set up, that "Modded" folder is 1.4 but modded.
not sure if this is truly the correct place to ask, but since im already discussing it here: does anyone know how to make more than two folders? so i can have 1.2 and 1.2 modded ready to go and dont have to up and downpatch anymore
is it just the same steps as making a 2nd folder? just a different name?
snow dome
Exactly the same thing
Just different files will be in it and you'll need to just call it "Hollow Knight 1.2/Hollow Knight 1.2 Modded" etc
sleek plinth
and the same steam_appid.txt ? 367520 ?
snow dome
Yep
sleek plinth
awesome! thank you!
snow dome
Same for every version of the game you make
analog monolith
known yes
ivory roost
I was recently asked by a fellow game dev what I thought a game needed to be speedrunable. I think I already have my answer, but I want to hear your thoughts.
snow dome
It has to be enjoyable as a non-speed game
ivory roost
I think that’s really the only essential quality it needs.
People have to want to play the game, a really fall in love with it if they’re gonna put in the time to speedrun a game
stuck raptor
If it's good, people will run it. I dunno what "Speedrun able" even means.
ivory roost
Yeah, thats kinda what I was trying to figure out how to express.
stuck raptor
With my experience with other game devs though, it's a very good idea to let runners alpha/beta test the game
ivory roost
I think a lot of people think of speedrunning as this arcane, unknowable thing
snow dome
If you can physically complete the game in one segment, somebody will run it.
stuck raptor
They will quickly find stuff you didn't think of and figure out quality of life things that will make your gameplay better
ivory roost
If you can physically complete the game in one segment, somebody will run it.
Even if you can’t they might. Botw 100%, anyone?
ivory roost
With my experience with other game devs though, it's a very good idea to let run...
I’ll keep this in mind!
stuck raptor
Speedrunners are natural QA testers
steady lynx
We will find any fault in your game, deal with it
ivory roost
We will find any fault in your game, deal with it
Ey as long as it doesn’t break the experience for casual play throughs I don’t even mind.
steady lynx
If something is purely good for speedrunners and doesn't affect casuals at all I'd say keep it in
old epogo
dim lake
does downpatching effect current save files in any negative way?
snow dome
Only if you open them
You can just leave them there and they will be fine
?saves As extra insurance, you can back them up by copying user1/2/3/4.dat from the saves folder listed below
sick ravenBOT
Saves
Windows File Paths: (Assumes Default Steam Install Path, Adjust accordingly for DRM Free or Non-Standard Steam Path)
Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\``` ** ** Mac File Paths: ```Save Files: ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/ Game Files: ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/``` ** ** Linux File Paths: ```Save Files: ~/.config/unity3d/Team Cherry/Hollow Knight/ Game Files: ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/```
dim lake
hmm cause i want to try speedrunning the game but I dont want to lose my casual playthrough file
steady lynx
Just back it up elsewhere
dim lake
also why do we patch it down to 1.2.2.1?
steady lynx
1.2.2.1 you can hit levers through walls
dim lake
ah
steady lynx
Also other things like being able to open inventory mid air and dreamer cutscenes being skipable
dim lake
gotcha
placid python
Having watched a lot of Pokemon speedruns in recent times, I have always thought a "speedrun" mode would be nice. It wouldnt change the mechanics of the game, but it would just remove major cutscenes to save baseline time. And it could be a mode that you unlock once you complete the baseline game, kind of like how HK does Steel Soul mode.
Stuff like HK and Mario 64 and Yoshis Island are great speedruns to watch because of its high percentage of executable gameplay relative to other games. The games dont have any major cutscenes outside of a few pieces of dialogue.
steady lynx
HK has intro, dreamer cutscenes and ending for cutscenes basically, and a ton of text mashing
queen birch
Pokemon RB has an instant text glitch. I wish HK had something similar
steady lynx
We have the Chinese language, basically instant
digital jewel
it'd be nice to save mashing
steady lynx
Would be nice if they added the mass sell to lemm that QoL has
ivory roost
Having watched a lot of Pokemon speedruns in recent times, I have always thought...
When you look at how this is usually implemented, its not good. As a general rule the more ‘speedrunner friendly’ you try to make a game, the less fun it is to speedrun.
placid python
I guess having breaks from constant executiom is probably good life EV for the runners.
verbal oar
New PB first run of the day!
celest creek
Hey, a casual HK player here, I've been watching speedruns lately and had a question i was hoping someone could answer
In particular I was watching speedruns of PoH and I noticed that the "standard" charm build is a fury build:
Unbreakable Strength + Quickslash + Fury of the Fallen + Shaman Stone
Have speedrunners experimented with replacing Unbreakable Strength w Grubberfly's Elegy? Numerically, if you hit both the nail and projectile, its the same total damage. But more importantly, fury of the fallen stacks with grubberflys, so the projectile is also boosted to 75%.
I know that pogoing becomes much more difficult, but I could also see it making some of the earlier bosses faster
And a second question: does it waste too much time to switch charms midway? I can't help but feel like having unbreakable strength instead of shaman stone early would save time, but of course swapping shaman stone back in later would be beneficial
digital jewel
fury stacks with fragile strength as well
and I don't believe that both the attack and the projectile can hit the same enemy
snow dome
The projectile from elegy triggers the enemy's I frames so your nail deals no damage
So it just halves your damage much of the time.
turbid oyster
cracked
celest creek
Ah, I was under the impression that both could hit. Turns out if the enemy is too small you can't, but sufficiently large enemies will get hit by both
Ideally I'd say use all three, then swap out grubberflys halfway with shaman stone. But I'm not sure if that's a viable option
It might slow down vengeful fly but some bosses (like sly, false knight, moss, watcher) get totally cheesed by it, so id think it would speed up those fights
spare frost
Not sure if this is a stupid question, running Any% on 1.2.2.1, regular patch after getting Herrah I can just run straight out but on 1.2.2.1 the devout which I just killed respawns. Is that normal for that patch?
twin swallow
yes
spare frost
Ah good good
strong vessel
It might slow down vengeful fly but some bosses (like sly, false knight, moss, w...
I don't think using elegy would speed up any boss really; pretty much every one of those is already cheesed even harder by just fury + strength, and most of the time it's just going to reduce your nail damage by 3x instead of getting both hits
Also, shaman stone saves time over the entire run and swapping charms is slow
jovial mountain
unless you're a TAS charm menuing takes an eternity
dense burrow
normal aspen
?
celest creek
Also, shaman stone saves time over the entire run and swapping charms is slow
Yea that's what I was afraid to hear, i still wonder if there are charms that are so much more effective at cheesing sections that it would save time overall. probably not though, the standard charm combo is pretty borke
queen birch
Ok, just got 1:03:31 any%NMG.
Is that good?
echo rover
thin vortex
whats the best run for someone wanting to learn? i was thinking all skills maybe?
crimson zodiac
Anyone have tips on learning how to put in more dps/ consitent attacks?
I see speedrunners get off 3-4 hits when i can only get off 1-2
wicked trench
I see speedrunners get off 3-4 hits when i can only get off 1-2
Time will get you there
wicked trench
whats the best run for someone wanting to learn? i was thinking all skills maybe...
Yeah, AllSkills is pretty ok as a starting one imo
I usually suggest try out some of the meme runs just to see if you like speedrunning
I think the best to start is Aluba% where you kill the Aluba after Hornet1 - I think that's the best to start because you basically learn (with minor differences) the first 10mins of almost every HK speedrun
thin vortex
well I just finished my first any% run with 3:05:18 on the in-game timer. I got QGA on my second try, which was a total fluke because I've never even attempted it before this and you don't even wanna know how many times I died to HK and Watcher Knights
stable quarry
whats the best run for someone wanting to learn? i was thinking all skills maybe...
All skills are definitly a good starting point. I wanted to do any% first but it seemed to difficult. So I did all skills untill it got comfortable to run. I just started running any% and got a 45 minute run on my third attempt.
slim geyser
<@&283547423706447872>
Hey cuties can we get a ban
who did it
if it's somni i want to reward her
mental python
what're good splits for any%
snow dome
Vengeful Spirit, Greenpath, Mothwing Cloak, Mantis Claw, Blue Lake, Dream Nail, Gorgeous Husk, Chandelier, Watcher Knights, Lantern, Crystal Heart, Uumuu, Queen's Gardens, Trap Bench, and Herrah
snow dome
Swap Queen's Gardens for Deepnest then
mental python
Do I enter deepnest from fungal?
Bruh when I quit out after cloak the knight wouldn't get up from mound bench, I was spamming the fuck out of the jump key
digital jewel
do you have native controller support enabled
mental python
no
digital jewel
weird
mental python
knotty vigil
Hi there I wanted to start speedrunning PoP, any advice or something?
old obsidian
try to have fun
if you like skips try learning skips, if you like dashmaster use dashmaster, if not don't
everything else will come by its own
rapid sierra
Hi there I wanted to start speedrunning PoP, any advice or something?
Die inside.
But seriously I only beat PoP once and it was hard.
I wish you good luck………..
screams in the distance PALE KING WHAT THE FU**
knotty vigil
Die inside.
But seriously I only beat PoP once and it was hard.
I wish you good ...
I have it pretty well memorized, I just tend to struggle with the last chainsaw in the last part 
rapid sierra
Ah
“Your highness here is the bill”
“Let me seeeeee what the fuck pale king!?!”
“All this on SHAWblades!?!”
knotty vigil
hallownest probably fell because the pale king used all the geo on PoP HAHA
rapid sierra
Yep
mental python
GET UP YA TWAT
queen birch
Fun. 30m is a bad time tho https://youtu.be/iAbWQYnBqJE
scenic zephyr
Any tips on beating watcher knight quickly (Any% NMG current patch) ?
old obsidian
try to always fireball both of them because them dying roughly the same time is gonna save time afaik
lime ibex
?speedrun
Whats the command that when you say it shows you how to speedrun
Nvm i found it
?guides
sick ravenBOT
queen birch
Any tips on beating watcher knight quickly (Any% NMG current patch) ?
Try to get them to do the nail-swing attack as much as possible
wicked trench
how do i fríreball skip?
Press QuickCast with the right timing
I feel it's hard to explain how to fireball skip
Basically you wanna fireball with the right timing not to lose height
shy narwhal
Just completed my first ever speed run attempt in under 5 hrs. Felt pretty darn good 😌
sleek plinth
when the door in City of Tears closes on you, if you quit out and load the game back in, do you spawn at your last rested bench, or right before the City Door?
steady lynx
The door closing hardsaves you past the door
short spire
sleek plinth
whats the quickest and safest farmable geo you guys can think of?
jovial mountain
what is this for? if your speedrun has access to relics/lemm that would be the quickest geo source
wise ferry
hardest fireball skip in the game? it took me more tries than I care to admit..
claw obtainable without stepping foot into greenpath for the mothwing cloak provided you can nail mantis pogo on one attempt that is
steady lynx
How would you intend to get to fungal wastes? The long way through waterways?
wise ferry
that works I guess. I haven't thought too much on it honestly. there's an easy fireball skip in queens station but then I can't say without stepping foot in Greenpath. there's the crossroads entrance but if three fireballs can clear that (I'm not even sure) it would pretty much have to be harder than this one at the village entrance. I want to go try that now
steady lynx
The one in crossroads was tested in TAS at some point and they needed four fireballs which is a bit difficult to get before claw, the other way is doing a shade skip to Blue Lake and then going through city to waterways to fungal which requires some pretty cursed shade skips
sleek plinth
what is this for? if your speedrun has access to relics/lemm that would be the q...
hitless
wise ferry
thanks for the info. I won't bother banging my head with the crossroads entrance into fungal in that case. in the file I recorded that with I just used Queen's. the usefulness of this in any category of speedrun seems pretty much non existent, but playing through the game without a dash will probably create some interesting scenarios and hopefully end up being more fun than frustrating
sleek plinth
im trying to actually cut two relics out of my route because they are risky
jovial mountain
ah that makes sense then. There aren't really any particularly good geo sources outside of relics, so I would suggest just doing safe strats for all the relics (completely safe cycles / killing enemies before grabbing relics). Unless you need early game geo relics should cover everyth9iong
sleek plinth
i do need early game geo tbh
i was trying to get Lumafly early
here is my route that i want to take
im sure you know but in 1.2 you can get Dash Slash and skip so many levers
vagrant warren
thanks for the info. I won't bother banging my head with the crossroads entrance...
Yeah, low% skips dash and interesting is def a word for that cat, but I'm pretty sure it uses epogo to access Mantis Village, rather than this entrance
wise ferry
right yeah. I haven't found a way to make that work on current patch without dash
sleek plinth
is it absolutely 100% impossible to get into Blue Lake with only Mantis Claw on Steel Soul?
it feels on the border of almost reachable and actually 100% impossible.
steady lynx
It's impossible, if it was possible any% steelsoul would be a very pointless category
In a rando setting it'd be kinda possible if crossroads are infected since you can just lure a Furious Vengefly over and pogo it
But rando forces not steelsoul
steady lynx
Even if possible I see no scenario where it'd actually be useful
If the shade decides to fireball you should just be able to make it under, wings and then pogo the fireball though
Getting it to fireball would require spending more time directly left of the shade which seems hard given the little space
thin vortex
first AllSkills run 2:20:20, very proud of myself. A LOT harder than i thought it would be
reef lichen
Getting it to fireball would require spending more time directly left of the sha...
Maybe could just spam abyss shriek
wise ferry
Have people been trying this
I posted my own version of this skip in this channel here about two days ago. I was a bit sloppy with the fireballs but whatever it still worked
cunning tide
https://youtu.be/EpUIQN6dIqA do you guys think this could be useful in an actual run if they had actually pulled this off? I kinda doubt it since they tried to use monarch wings and that should take longer to get then cdash, but maybe I'm missing something.
digital jewel
the problem with finishing the game without crystal dash is getting in and out of teacher's archives
the most viable alternative so far uses monarch wings to collect isma's tear
cunning tide
I forgot about Dreamer hard saves
Huh
hexed iris
Guys I am looking to start speedruning this game since it’s my fav game by far. I don’t have much time to practice/play. What is the quickest/easiest speedrunning category?
Btw I have never tried speedrunning in my life XD
steady lynx
Full game runs you'll have the easiest time learning any% or All Skills
stiff hare
I have been running Any % NMG on current patch with a goal of getting under one hour. I just finished this run
I am super excited and had to tell someone that would care
The +/- values are basically meaningless because it is comparing to a really bad run I had yesterday, but somehow I knocked a full 6 minutes off my last BP
hexed iris
I tried the 4 masks shards today
Cause I figured it would be quick
…I need some practice 😅
steady lynx
Those Vengeflies and Mawlek do be rough
hexed iris
Mawlek was actually quite easy for me..vengeflies were the hardest
The thing is that I can only play 1 hour everyday
analog monolith
in that case any fullgame categories are going to be VERY hard
the only commonly-run one feasibly doable in under an hour is any%
all skills already reaches over that unless ur at a super high level
verbal oar
first sub 50! any% current patch
snow dome
is it absolutely 100% impossible to get into Blue Lake with only Mantis Claw on ...
Under NMG; yes. Under RMG; no, it is possible.
13:10 in is the method. In this example I do have dash, but it isn't required. You simply jump right further, I dash here just to be safe. It's still very easy
verbal oar
What does RMG mean? the only only difference i saw scanning through it is no crystal dash and wcs is allowed
strong vessel
The thing is that I can only play 1 hour everyday
In that case, there are quite a few meme cats that are relatively short!
4 mask shards is a very good one
3 vessel fragments (with the KS arena route) and myla% are both very good practice for cats like any% if you'll have more time in the future
A1uba% is very short and helps you practice early game
Things like elderbug% and grubsong% and cartographer are all fairly movement-based and are varying levels of comfiness (and length)
There are plenty of good options; I'm sure you can find a good one!
hexed iris
What if I made my own one XD
Like mini boss%- Defeat all 4 mini bosses( vengefly king, massive moss charger,gruzz mother, soul warrior) as fast as possible
Quick and I could practice stuff like the shade skip and the early game
What do you guys think?
But also all the above categories could be good
verbal oar
lol i think a mini boss cat would be fun
hexed iris
Dude and it can also be optimised a lot
And I can improve my time by learning shade skip and stuff
verbal oar
actually i need a brake from full game runs for a bit ima try it
hexed iris
I actually had a good idea for once 😂
I think the road would be : Vengeful spirit->Vengefly king-> Dash-> Massive moss charger->Gruzz mother-> Shade skip-> Soul warrior
verbal oar
i got to vengfly king then forgot how to get to massive moss charger XD
also technically massive moss charger is a full boss
ill be in hollow knight vc if u want to try some runs together
hexed iris
It’s late for me and I already used my 1 hour play time…but I would be really happy tommorow if we could
verbal oar
sure sounds like it could be fun ill wait to do more attempts till tomorrow then
hexed iris
Good luck man
wicked trench
What does RMG mean? the only only difference i saw scanning through it is no cry...
Restricted Major Glitches
verbal oar
ok thx
wicked trench
Our delivery man is already on the way 
sour pivot
royal arch
@hexed iris does brooding mawlek count as a minioboss?
thin vortex
is there a Tiso% or Quirrel% where you interact with them at every possible moment. Ending at blue lake with Quirrel and kingdoms edge with Tiso. They are my favorite characters in the game and think that those would be super fun categories
royal arch
whatabout tiso in the pantheon of hollownest
hexed thorn
is there a Tiso% or Quirrel% where you interact with them at every possible mome...
there is quirrel%:
i think homothety and i are the only ppl who have run it
thin vortex
i would like to start a patition to rename it dadbod% lol
@royal arch i was thinking about that as well, but then it turns into some weird allbosses/pantheon run where you dont actually finish. So my logic with that is pantheons happen in a dream world so it doesnt count
hexed thorn
overworld tiso is pretty straightforward, imo not that interesting of a category tho since it's basically just a quick early game cat
thin vortex
yeah you have a point. more of just an homage to my favorite character than anything else
grand night
if i wanted to learn to speedrun/practice well for pantheons, what is the best way to learn? mainly how to deal good dps
idk if i wanna do fury of the fallen yet but how can i learn nail cancel stuff and nail into spell spam stuff
queen birch
Nail cancelling is only likely to be useful when doing charm bindings or against specific bosses. I’d say watch what the top runners do for each boss, then practice that in the hall of gods
analog monolith
nail cancels are generally not useful in pantheons; most of the time u want to be using nail slashes with strength quick slash, especially in the first 2 pantheons
even without fury
but if u want to learn nail cancels, best way is really just to practice. get/open debug, turn on infinite soul, and grind out the timing until it feels consistent, and practice using them on bosses until it becomes second nature
grand night
is debug a mod?
jovial mountain
yes
sleek plinth
Under NMG; yes. Under RMG; no, it is possible.
yeah what does RMG mean?
winter kernel
does anyone know anything about streaming on swirtch
winter kernel
i believe you need a capture card
wat dat
winter kernel
well i have the switch on hdmi
grand night
Yes but you sadly that won’t work
You need a device to record it and send it
idk if i can put links in this chat but basically just look p "elgato capture card" and those are some of the better ones)
winter kernel
winter kernel
ok so
from what i understand
i buy a $13 capture card
plug it into the usb at thee back
of the switch thing
adn then connect that to hdmi
grand night
i belive that could be how, im not sure about the cheaper cards. I reccomend, if possible, the 140 dollar one bc its usually higher quality (and i actually know how to use it)
winter kernel
i belive that could be how, im not sure about the cheaper cards. I reccomend, if...
yeha but
im poor
grand night
yeah i get that, try out the $13 dollar one then
winter kernel
kk
dull umbra
guys i'm so cool i beat hk sub 1 hour
silver plover
congrats!
wise ferry
very nice!
hexed iris
<@!839386973475307521> does brooding mawlek count as a minioboss?
I looked at the wiki and he does not
Also I don’t like that boss XD
thin vortex
Trying to get my autosplitter going and it recognizes that a new game has started (increases my attempt count and the timer turns green) but it doesnt actually start the timer? anyone know whats going on? i followed the guide on speedrun.com
vagrant warren
are they splits you created yourself or downloaded? Have you made sure the auto-splitter is activated & has splits in it?
rapid crystal
Hey. I was wondering if I can get any help here with a problem I've been having. I've been learning how to speedrun on 1.2.2.1 recently and any quit out is an automatic timeloss for me because when I open the start menu my mouse appears in the middle of the screen and autohovers the middle option. FYI I'm playing on pc with a DS4 controller.
digital jewel
how is that a timeloss?
rapid crystal
Brain on autopilot. It pauses the timer anyways right. Still wanted to know if there's a fix cuz it's quite annoying
rapid crystal
Well yes. But I didn't have this problem with the other controller. The mouse and keyboard were disabled automatically. I'm assuming it's something to do with steam controller support
wicked trench
Were you playing on CurrentPatch with the other controller?
rapid crystal
No
digital jewel
I don't really see how the mouse appearing changes anything to be honest
rapid crystal
I don't see why that matters. If you don't know how to help you can say that 🙂 I'll just live with it
digital jewel
wooden mica
Hey. I was wondering if I can get any help here with a problem I've been having....
I also have this issue
snow dome
Can you explain what the 'issue' exactly is? Then maybe somebody can help.
Xero literally asked them and was told to stop trying to help.
wicked trench
I though it was a normal feature in 1221 to have the mouse in the middle of the screen
CP > 1221
silent moss
I downpatched hk using the betas tab on steam, that's correct right?
frigid chasm
I downpatched hk using the betas tab on steam, that's correct right?
I did that and the patch works fine like on steam
frigid chasm
np
hexed iris
So I tried my first run on mini boss%
I got lost like 6 times
But I got a time of 52:18
I think you can get like 40 minutes or less
queen birch
What do you define as mini bosses?
hexed iris
Whatever is a boss you can defeat quickly and is said as a mini boss on the hollow knight wiki
Vengefly king,Massive moss charger,Gruz mother,Soul warrior
@queen birch
fickle rover
The weak bois :]
snow dome
Vengefly king,Massive moss charger,Gruz mother,Soul warrior
Why is Brooding Mawlek not in your list?
This would be a reasonable cat with Mawlek in it
Also are you fighting both Soul Warriors?
queen birch
(Assuming you mean just soul warrior 1)
That might be possible without mantis claw. If it is, it would require some cursed shade skips
hexed iris
This would be a reasonable cat with Mawlek in it
He is indentified as a hidden boss
Not mini boss that’s why
snow dome
It also says "mini-boss"
hexed iris
And only the first Soul warrior in soul sanctum
hexed iris
It also says "mini-boss"
Where?
hexed iris
I don’t count that
snow dome
Soul Warrior 1 requires veritcal
hexed iris
Yep that’s why you need mantis claw
You can go through Fog canyon after moss charger to quickly get to mantis village
Do the parkour to city of tears and kill Soul warrior
So the fastest way I think is
Gruz mother-> Kill False knight->Spirit-> Vengefly king-> Hornet-> Massive moss charger-> Claw->Parkour-> Soul warrior
Shade skip could be faster tbh
If you do it instead of the parkour
You don’t need to defeat False knight that way
And kill Gruz mother quicker
snow dome
I'm pretty sure the fastest way to do this is:
Skip FK -> VS -> VK -> MMC -> Save/Quit
Claw -> S/Q
Gruzmother -> City -> Soul Warrior
MMC pays for Shamans if you want it.
You could do this route on 1221 and get both Soul Warriors. Not completely sure why you're skipping one.
hexed iris
Yeah you could also get Shaman stone that way
Don’t you need the elegant key to access the second Soul warrior?
snow dome
Not on 1221
Just Dash Slash the lever from the other side of the door
On current patch you would need to go into Peaks too
hexed iris
But Oro is in kingdoms edge..that’s a big detour
hexed iris
True
But the thing is I need to fit it in that 1 hour or so…having to fight a second soul warrior just makes it more complicated
I could make it like a harder version of the speedrun
If I get good at the easier one
I could also add Mawlek to it
What do you think?
snow dome
I honestly think doing the ones you've listed, including both Warriors, and Mawlek would make it a reasonably cool run maybe?
I reckon you could get 20m IGT for that
So like... 25m real time
hexed iris
You know what..when I am able to do the first speedrun under 30m I will try the second one
I need to practice some of the tricks
Cause this is my first attempt at speedrunning
snow dome
I think you're going the long away around, fwiw
hexed iris
Yeah I guess
Well I have something to do until Silksong or Horizon:Forbidden west comes out XD
That’s 2 and a half months
Or 3
I guess it is then
snow dome
Mawlek is only adding like.... 1m max to the run
queen birch
I thought maybe you could fireball skip from right side city of tears to left, then shade skip up to watcher spire and take the left exit to soul sanctum. Unfortunately you can't access the quirrel bench without claw, and making it to the left side of city of tears requires a shade skip (2 fireballs isn't enough distance), so there's no way to put a shade in watcher spire, even if a shade skip there is possible
hexed iris
So I guess we are adding Brooding mawlek to the list
Well I need to learn the scream skip…
Doesn’t look that hard
Also shade skip
Is shade skip hard?
queen birch
Why are we doing shade skip?
hexed iris
To get to Soul warrior quicker I think
Also..can you change your patch on ps4? I don’t think so
queen birch
Shade skip is easy enough if you have mantis claw & I think it does save some time in sanctum. The question is then what order you plan to get claw & gruz mother. City crest still might be faster depending
hexed iris
If I went for the shade skip I would get claw, menu quit to the crossroads stag station and kill gruz
Then shade skip
queen birch
It might be worth benching at waterfall to get MMC, save+quit twice, then use the city crest after getting claw
hexed iris
waterfall?
copper pumice
Does the double vengeful spirit green path skip work on the most current version?
steady lynx
yes
copper pumice
Oh, well it is really hard
grand night
Hk 69% wr when
queen birch
waterfall?<:confuzz:759644097979613224>
The first bench in greenpath
steady lynx
That's a category we call Nice%
Current Nice% record is by emray 1:13:57 @grand night
grand night
O thank you
steady lynx
snow dome
It might be worth benching at waterfall to get MMC, save+quit twice, then use th...
They were asking about shade skip because I mentioned it as a possibility above. I believe it would be faster.
VS -> Mawlek -> VK -> potentially Dash -> MMC -> Quit -> Claw -> Quit -> Gruzmother -> Shade Skip -> Soul Warrior.
If you're on 1221 you can go get Dash Slash and get both Soul Warriors here, if not you would need to do something like bench at Toll Bench, sell some relics to Lemm, buy Lantern, go get key from Peaks, Quit back to bench.
queen birch
True, shade skip is faster if you’re fighting both soul warriors
full maple
Hallo!
grand night
hi, so im thinking of starting a first attempt soon and i have a few questions.
will current patch be fine for the run?
do i need any mods?
is there a route like how the flower quest is mapped out? i know i have watched some vids but i would like to have a map up in the run to know where to go even if i forget.
vagrant warren
Current Patch runs have their own boards. No mods are allowed for speedruns. Whether there's a drawn map will depend on what category you're running. There are some guides linked on SRC, and more in the Speedrun server (in pins)
grand night
ty
snow dome
MMC has a split
I'm pretty sure soul warrior does but I've never used one so maybe not
MMC is called Mega Moss Charger, I believe
queen birch
Good to know: If you kill vengefly king during his scream, you softlock
and he's called sanctum warrior for some reason
queen birch
I tested out the dash slash route. It works... if you're ok with fighting soul warrior 2 blindfolded
Getting dash slash then soul warrior 1, I got a time of 28 minutes
options:
- exclude soul warrior 2 from the route (you beat him once anyway)
- pick up shade soul + dash slash and pray
- get the elegant key
primal pilot
Does anyone know if VS can cancel hard falls?
queen birch
it does
finite heart
How much geo does false knight give. Its 200 right?
timid rapids
How much geo does false knight give. Its 200 right?
pretty sure, yeah
finite heart
It is ive checked. Yesh just wanting to pick up shade soul really adds to needed geo and alters the route so much.
queen birch
options:
1. exclude soul warrior 2 from the route (you beat him once anyway)
2. ...
I retried all minibosses (vengefly king, mawlek, MMC, gruzmother, both soul warriors) on 1.4.3.2. Here's some notes
- Unless you get dive, you need 2600 geo at least, just to get both the key and lantern. I killed mantis lords & false knight on top of the 3 usual relics for the extra geo
- on 1.2.2.1, you can do the dash slash lever skip and fight soul warrior 2 with shade soul. This is much faster, but the fight is in a dark room, so good luck aiming that thing.
- shade skipping to city of tears is probably worth because of the relics
- With good geo routing (which I didn't do) you could probably afford shaman's stone or a nail upgrade
@hexed iris You said you were looking for a run you can complete in an hour. I did this in 57 minutes (6 of which were spent dying to SW2 😩 )
hexed iris
1 thing do you need the lantern?
And second bosses give you 615 geo
So you would need to get around 200 more anyway
With only the key
You could get geo for defeating False knight
You are right there anyway
queen birch
You need either lantern or desolate dive to get the shopkeeper’s key to give to sly to access soul warrior 2
hexed iris
Wait he needs the shopkeepers key…which is in Crystal peak sigh
Dude this little boss complicates things a lot lol
In that case you could run from False knight and get the geo from Soul master which also gives you dive
queen birch
If you’re getting dive instead of lantern, you probably don’t even need soul master’s geo
hexed iris
You still need the 200 geo tho
You could get that from relics but that would be slower
queen birch
without false knight, you are required to pick up ~550 boss geo. Soul master can make up the difference for the key and you can pay for the stag station with a relic
Actually no, soul warrior 1 can pay for the stag. I’m stupid
analog monolith
ghusk + kings seal + rafters + well seal + any% journal + mv journal + mmc + soul warrior
wouldnt that be fastest for geo
ghusk is 20s, kings seal is 20s, rafters is about 25s, well is about 25s, any% journal is about 8s, mv journal is 12s, mmc and soul warrior are routed in
wait no soul warrior is post-ekey
moss knights then
compact wigeon
snow dome
wait no soul warrior is post-ekey
You could do first soul warrior before lantern, bench, sell, then after getting key you s/q
analog monolith
the problem with that is that bench is a toll bench
hard perch
What's a good route for beginners?
analog monolith
im going to assume u mean any%
for any%, a decent beginner route is shade soul + deepnest route. shade soul makes the bosses and beast's den much easier at the cost of a few minutes, and deepnest route skips the hardest trick in the run in exchange for about 40 seconds of timeloss (less on current patch)
each of these is always going to save more time than taking the hard route and eating deaths to any part of the run
ripe frost
is there a difference between low% and any%? like if there was a long convoluted way to go around an item to get a lower percent than any%?
vagrant warren
It is. The main thing it skips in comparison to any% is dash. I believe the final % is 11, compared to 16 for any%
snow dome
No Dash, no Shaman's Stone, everything else is the same?
I feel like I'm missing a %
Gruzmother!
steady lynx
Low% also dies to WK more somehow
sleek plinth
does anyone have any tips to flawlessly get down Fog Canyon Acid Skip please?
just when i think ive worked out the timing and muscle memory i sink into the acid the next attempt.
wicked trench
don't jump down the platform
just keep holding left and when you are on the wall press c.dash
you have some pixels to work with so don't be scared
sleek plinth
yeah i walk and the moment after i hear Knight hit the platform i hit Cdash
hit the platform before it
because the landing on platform sound cues just after you actually land so i use it as a timing cue
wicked trench
remember you can't queue commands so you have to press c.dash after you wall cling
if you do it early you are gonna dunk in the acid
sleek plinth
its hard to explain how i time it
i dont hit Cdash when i hit the platform, i do it a few milliseconds after i hear the landing sound because thats like around the time ill be wall clinging
also, i try to time the actual Cdash like a metronome, like, 1, 2, 3, 4, Dash, Hit, Jump, Land, but that only works like half of the time
let me see if i can record a few runs
wicked trench
i dont hit Cdash when i hit the platform, i do it a few milliseconds after i hea...
this seems fine
be mindful that you might find yurself bonking at the ceiling if you are too fast pressing c.dash for that skip
sleek plinth
maybe i could get lucky with some musicians in here that can explain in beats? like idk "two 16th notes at ___bpm" or something?
sleek plinth
this seems fine
be mindful that you might find yurself bonking at the ceiling if...
i should mention ive never hit the ceiling, so i think if anything i may be pressing Cdash too late
wicked trench
so you dunk in the acid?
sleek plinth
yeah a lot
and i think thats the main cause of why i get sizzled on the other side even though im keeping a solid pace
why its like even if i count it out perfect itll be like a 50/50 chance of making it
wicked trench
are you just holding left and then pressing c.dash?
wicked trench
and the knight keep going down when you press it?
sleek plinth
yeah, i only make it like 1/3 of the time
sleek plinth
i think i may have found a solution, or a good timing to use as a frame of reference
the pulsating heartbeat sound when you first enter Infected Crossroads, "thump-thump, thump-thump, thump-thump, thump-thump", ive been using that as a reference
youll have to keep the timing yourself after you leave the room, but the "thump-thump" is i think the exact timing as the acid skip priming
the first thump is when you hit the platform, the second thump is when you wanna press Cdash
then from there i think i can cleanly use the entry sounds as a metronome, 1, 2, 3, 4, Dash, Smack, Jump, Land. ill keep trying it out.
wicked trench
if that works for you ✌️
I don't understand why you jump? Are you trying the underplat?
sleek plinth
oh i mean jump when i hit the Right wall
wicked trench
Ah ok, that makes sense now
sleek plinth
the "Fwoosh, Boom, Plip, Plap", its like perfectly in beat, "Dash, Smack, Jump, Land", success
wicked trench
If I'd have to bet without see any clip I'd say the problem is doing the inputs early
But without seeing your controller is a hard guess
sleek plinth
and i think the timing of the heartbeat in opening FC is good timing for the actual crystaling
i think now im succeeding
sleek plinth
well i still mess up but its probably because im tired. i at least turned it from like a 70% failure rate to a 70% success rate
hexed iris
Ok so I just tried the first mini boss% speedrun for a second time
I got 39:30
14 minutes faster
hexed iris
Ps4
snow dome
Ah, that's a really decent time then
hexed iris
Btw it was without mawlek and the second soul warrior
So that I can try again because I still have time
My goal was bellow 50 min
I crushed that
I think you can get 35 min
I died once or twice
queen birch
Without soul warrior 2 I’m sure you can get down to about 20 minutes, even counting mawlek
queen birch
Is it faster to get to claw from the mound, or from MMC?
snow dome
Doing it that way means either watching the dreamer cutscene and coming all the way back around and out or not getting Dash
I've been trying to route all 6 in. (VK, Mawlek, MMC, Gruzmother, both Warriors.) I may have made a routing error.
queen birch
Yeah that geo is tricky. I have a new lantern route I’m going to try later which does watch the dreamer scene because you can pick up 2 relics on the way back
snow dome
Which two relics are you getting?
I assume the Journal immediately below
Acid Bridge Seal?
There must be something better than Acid Bridge Seal.
Also that leaves me 150g short. (Which is pretty much just Moss Knight Geo Rocks.)
Actually I bought Toll Bench and didn't need it.
queen birch
I was thinking the greenpath seal that requires a fireball skip & the journal right outside greenpath stag
snow dome
Yeah, that's Acid Bridge Seal
If you're going to Fungal from Greenpath you can get Sporgs Seal too
queen birch
Nice. That saves me a trip to dirtmouth later on
hexed iris
The path I am using is: Gruz mother-> False knight-> Greenpath-> Vengefly king-> Hornet-> MMC-> Fog canyon into claw->City of tears-> Soul warrior
The city crest route seems faster then shade skip so far
queen birch
I think shade skip is faster when you include SW2
hexed iris
If I did it would be faster
strong vessel
Doing it that way means either watching the dreamer cutscene and coming all the ...
It means getting waterfall bench; several cats do that already and it isn't too slow
snow dome
If you're wanting to quit back to get to Sally is that still faster?
queen birch
I’m not using the waterfall bench
past edge
dawn juniper
Is there a tutorial on speed running in general, I’m new too Speed running and want to get into it
knotty vigil
?guides
sick ravenBOT
deep dagger
What's current patch for speedrunning
vagrant warren
Same as current patch in any other context. CP boards are separate from older patches
queen birch
All mini bosses 1.4.3.2 including mawlek and both soul warriors in 37:38
I used the 6 relics lantern route I thought of earlier, got crossroads seal instead of sporgs, and got lost in fungal
entering fungal from fog canyon is kinda pointless since there's a gate blocking you, then you have to do the ogre arena
strong vessel
If you're wanting to quit back to get to Sally is that still faster?
If you need to go back to ancestral mound, then you can make an extra trip to MMC through GP like 3VF (not sure whether it's fastest to then S&Q or go through QS to claw)
However, I'd imagine that left-side city is fastest regardless
And if you're killing the soul warrior, might as well get dive instead of lantern
Also imo including the second soul warrior doesn't make sense unless you also include colo VFK, gruz mothers, soul warriors, and mawlek
queen birch
And if you're killing the soul warrior, might as well get dive instead of lanter...
The shade skip gets you 2 more relics + king station stag. And the point of lantern is to do 1 trip through sanctum instead of 2 & avoid soul master.
Queen station to claw is undoubtedly slower
strong vessel
Lantern is really slow though, seeing as you need to buy ekey
queen birch
It's not that bad. I said 6 relics, but 5 of them are already on the path if you use the shade skip route
strong vessel
Which ones? The only ones that are really on the way are the KS journal, KS seal, and rafters seal (which is an option either way)
queen birch
Those + the journal below hornet & the seal you can fireball skip to. That leaves one seal you can get from the dirtmouth well
strong vessel
I mean all three of those aren't exclusive to doing shade skip
queen birch
Sure, but I like having king's station stag
Last run I wound up with somewhere around 300 extra geo, so there might be a better relic route, but I doubt dive is faster. It could be, if anyone else wants to try this category
strong vessel
Since you're already in sanctum, dive is fairly quick and means that you can just buy the bench outside sanctum, do peak, and S&Q back
queen birch
It gets better. There's no need to buy the bench because of the hard-save at soul master
strong vessel
But then, imo the category should either only require one soul warrior or require all four (+ all three gruz mothers + both vengefly kings + both brooding mawleks) to be consistent and in either case it doesn't matter
queen birch
oh, but then how do you get from peak to sly?
strong vessel
Save sly after gruz mother
queen birch
Soul master -> peak is easy enough via storeroom stag, but from peak to sly to buy the elegant key means you can either s+q to dirtmouth, and be stuck there, or you have to walk all the way back to dirtmouth, then s+q to sanctum
strong vessel
Right, ekey means that you'd just bench at storerooms instead
queen birch
Ok. that's slower than I was hoping for, but it could be a viable route
copper patio
spedron
runic summit
Whats a good time for getting dream nail in any% nmg
copper patio
anyways im gonna go to off topic see ya
runic summit
I did a horrible green path and clean up and got a 25min dream nail lol
analog monolith
Whats a good time for getting dream nail in any% nmg
it definitely depends on your goals. if it's ur first run after looking at the route then anything sub-30 is pretty dang good; if ur going for a sub-40 time then u probably want at least a sub-16
queen birch
My best time to dream nail is around 17m
we don't talk about watcher knights tho ptsd intensifies
deep dagger
Same as current patch in any other context. CP boards are separate from older ...
Yes, but what's the number? I have to select a version and I don't know which is current patch
vagrant warren
1.5.etc is newest, 1.4.3.2 is also accepted. Basically a patch with Godhome considered CP (since some people cannot update to 1.5). If any specific category has requirements or exceptions that would be noted on the category rules.
deep dagger
Thanks
crimson warren
if I downpatch to 1221 will it destroy any saves from higher patches? I want to try speedrunning but I'm mostly through radiant hall of gods and I really don't want to ruin that save file lol
uneven urchin
Hi everyone ! I have some problems with my auto splitter on live split.. and idk what to do : So basically I'm speedruner of hollow knight and I speedrun an unofficial category which is all pantheons godseeker so it's about 80 bosses and so like 80 <90 splits and I don't know why but there are times when it just stops going split so every time I panic and I lose my run far in the run (NKG etc..)
vagrant warren
if I downpatch to 1221 will it destroy any saves from higher patches? I want to ...
it won't destroy anything but if you open a CP save in 1221 it can be corrupted. I'd suggest backing up any saves that are important to you just in case.
uneven urchin
Hi everyone ! I have some problems with my auto splitter on live split.. and idk...
I have a track roughly every time I run my splits and therefore live split it displays an error message where I can continue or close livesplit (I will send it to you in picture if that interests you)
If you have a solution or a track you can PM me 😄
Thanks!
spare frost
I have been having issues with the 1.2.2.1 Watcher Knight fight, I have found more and more recently that when they are bouncing they will just stop midair and and drop straight downwards as if sitting down. Is this consistent with the 1.2.2.1 patch or is that not normal? 
queen birch
I have been having issues with the 1.2.2.1 Watcher Knight fight, I have found mo...
It’s a bug, but you just have to deal with it
foggy hamlet
For all achievements run
sour pivot
jagged vault
That’s a common hornet softlock on 1221. If she lands on that ledge while in the knockdown animation after dying, she can get stuck and you’ll have to reset unfortunately. Something you can do is learn to recognize when she will be close to dead and knowingly try to avoid getting the final hit while she jumps in that trajectory
fleet mantle
Just wanted to show yall this amazing skip that popped up in my recommendations
I dont know if you have seen the video or not but none the less its a good one
fleet mantle
Damn
deep dagger
is it faster no not go through queens gardens? since all the NMG runs on console dont go through queens garden. even the #1 run doesnt go through queens garden
wicked trench
Going in Queen's Garden is faster in any%
knotty vigil
It saves like 30-40 seconds or so from the deepnest route I think
digital jewel
consoles are on patch 1432 so spore shroom route is more competitive compared to queen's gardens
I'm not sure the difference on console but closer to 5-15s difference
steady lynx
I never timed it properly but not having to do cp QG is really appealing
Now don't ask why PS4 is ran on Japanese, that was just me memeing
woeful carbon
hello did you know that you can do hitless scream skip?
deep dagger
hello did you know that you can do hitless scream skip?
isnt it done by opening inventory at the right time?
knotty vigil
For nmg categories, it is not
woeful carbon
ok
smoky lark
Hey how do you get the thing that pest uses, where you get a timer that starts on room transition?
I think it would be very useful for practice
blazing mason
i want to get into speedrunning is this a good first game otr not?
jovial mountain
i want to get into speedrunning is this a good first game otr not?
I haven't really picked up any other speedgames so I can't comment on that but a lot of the current HK speedrunners started with Hollow Knight
it's not the greatest or most consistent game, but as long as you enjoy playing it HK can be a very fun speedgame
knotty vigil
Does anyone know what the world record for the switch speedrun category is I can't find anything on it
finite heart
Uggh what a wash. Tried to record a any% for the first time today. Scraped the first attempt when it was effectively 12 minutes to clear ancestral mound. Scraped the second run when it effectively took 40 minutes to reach kings station after dream nail.
Its worth saying i grab shade soul so i go to city storeroom stag after dream nail. Oh i forgot to go to lemm. That would have lost a bunch of time too.
queen birch
desolate dive is probably better than shade soul if you want to take a detour. The invincibility helps out a lot
knotty vigil
I was on pace for a personal best but messed up I'm fungal wastes
snow dome
Uggh what a wash. Tried to record a any% for the first time today. Scraped the f...
Get the route in note form in front of you as you play.
snow dome
desolate dive is probably better than shade soul if you want to take a detour. T...
Dive takes a very, very long time. Shade Soul is much faster. That said my first any% got D-Dark.
analog monolith
the main upsides with dive are an easier wk fight, not having to worry about geo pretty much at all, and getting rid of the lemm trip, at the cost of having to go from watcher's spire, all the way to sanctum, do all of sanctum, and then backtrack all the way back to spire
snow dome
The problem with Dive IMO is that the route is completely different.
analog monolith
the main upsides with shade soul are a (slightly less) easier wk fight, at the cost of a detour to oro to get dash slash, to sanctum to get shade soul, and a hefty amount more geo, and on current patch, an entirely different route
analog monolith
The problem with Dive IMO is that the route is _completely_ different.
cp ssoul route is entirely different too tbf
snow dome
On 1221 Shade Soul is overall the same route with a bit of extra geo from like Mantis Journal, Rafter's Seal, +150g somewhere.
CP route is cursed.
analog monolith
indeed
snow dome
Two City Visits
analog monolith
would cp dive be faster than cp ssoul 
probably not bc of soul master and leaving sanctum right
but also no ghusk, no kings seal, etc is quite a bit
gonna ask in other server
snow dome
My original Any% time was 1:05 and that got D-Dark
finite heart
I wouldn’t say my route with shade soul is THAT different. I do play on the switch so current patch. The big differences is i beat mantis lords for geo after claw and then on my first visit to CoT i get the geo and take city storeroom out so i can use that when coming back for WK
I just throw in an extra boss after claw and swap crystal heart and watcher knights.
analog monolith
up to dream nail is going to be pretty much identical in terms of routing, and anything from fog canyon to finish is going to be pretty much identical, regardless of the route
only differences being what relics you pick up and what gear you have for fights
if anything isnt something along the lines of dnail->city->lurien->kings stag->peaks->cdash in between there it's pretty different, especially if u swap the order of things
finite heart
Yeah im not gonna think dnail->city ->city storeroom ->peaks ->cdash ->shade soul ->lurien is that different
snow dome
Moving C-Dash before Watchers is pretty big.
It might genuinely be faster to not do Watcher's next at that point.
It might also not matter since it's probably all Stags anyway
Like it's about the least clicks through a menu at that points which is saving a few frames at best.
smoky glen
How long does it take to write a TAS? 30 minutes seems like a million frames are needed
Ok that's about 108k frames but do you just input all of the frames one by one
finite heart
After cpeaks its stag to stag so yeah could be either. But the whole point of shade soul is the extra fire power so.
snow dome
Ok that's about 108k frames but do you just input all of the frames one by one
It's much more than this. The frame rate isn't always consistent across the run (which is technically banned under NMG but we allowed it because forcing them to stick to 300fps throughout the entire run would've made it take much, much longer). They drop to 50FPS for certain segments and go up to 300(?) for others, depending on what inputs they need.
snow dome
?
sour pivot
@digital jewel sorry, i don't speak english 😦
graceful crescent
hello i think there is a way to only get double jump and complete a run (nmg any%)
digital jewel
ok
graceful crescent
so the tas does the c heart skip with a wall cling storage double jump
digital jewel
cheart skip where
slim geyser
https://youtu.be/XBpo9j-I4kI?t=1478
I think Xero wants to know what you expect us to learn from this information. Are you suggesting that a "wings only" rout would be faster? That it would remove a percentage from low%?
graceful crescent
sorry i ran out of data (internet)
he uses sharp shadow but if need be we can get 3 vessel fragments 2 from sly and one next to the alavator in city
graceful crescent
I think Xero wants to know what you expect us to learn from this information. Ar...
yes
slim geyser
Yes to what?
digital jewel
soul doesn't refill from a vessel fast enough for that
graceful crescent
to saving time in any%
slim geyser
no
digital jewel
and I don't think 1 extra fireball would cut out all the distance gained from sharp shadow
slim geyser
completing the game with less things will not make the rout faster by default
steady lynx
Low% moment
graceful crescent
completing the game with less things will not make the rout faster by default
yeah i just suggested it as an idea i got after rewatching the video about the mag route from fireb0rn
oh and if we get double jump we can skip beast den
slim geyser
I don't mean to shut you down here, but speedrunners take these things into consideration. People have tried for years to re-rout any% to be faster, but the rout has not changed since late 2017.
If you have a serious suggestion for the community, you should have some proof or put an effort to show it is worthwhile
otherwise you are just asking other people to do work that has probably already been done, or too hard to be worthwhile
graceful crescent
I don't mean to shut you down here, but speedrunners take these things into cons...
yeah i know all these and i am not that good at the game thats why i said it here i know i dont have the skill to do it so i put it here to see if it is even worth the testing
i just wanted to ask is it even worth testing
slim geyser
i just wanted to ask is it even worth testing
okay, phrasing that clearly at the start of the conversation will help avoid confusion in the future
graceful crescent
ok sorry
i am going to go try it but first i have to practice broken vessel
goodbye for now
slim geyser
good luck!
analog monolith
and I don't think 1 extra fireball would cut out all the distance gained from sh...
as someone who literally tried this like an hour ago (without looking here lol) bc i was interested: this pretty much hard requires sharp shadow, i tried with dslash twister but didnt get it once
steady lynx
The geo route scares me
queen birch
The problem with the teachers archives skip is it requires dream gate to escape afterward, and you don’t have time to gather 900 essence
steady lynx
We tried to find a way to escape wings only but even with Twister it never worked
smoky lark
guys if you wanna do any% with dive just do all skills
queen birch
Where are you spending all that time? You’re not going to crystal peaks…
snow dome
What's your route again?
No Mawlek No Soul Warrior 2?
Gruzmother -> VK -> MMC -> Soul Sanctum Warrior?
queen birch
I’ll try out that route and time it later today
hard beacon
Hi all,
IS anyone on here doing Path of Pain speedruns and if so, is it possible that the QoL mod that allows infinite PoP runs is changing the patch I'm on, or the behavior/timing of the level?
With mods enabled I'm able to make cycles in certain rooms, especially the first one on that initial climb, but when I disable mods to try to capture a run to submit it, it's like... literally not possible for me haha
twin swallow
QoL reduces room loading times, so room cycles will be affected, yes
hard beacon
Okay so I've basically been speedrunning on easy mode
Oof. Welp, better get practicing haha. Thanks!
Also, if anyone has any recommendations/guides on how to clutch certain spots in PoP, would be much appreciated!
queen birch
I’ll try out that route and time it later today
I got 20 minutes, 50 seconds
hexed iris
Gruzmother -> VK -> MMC -> Soul Sanctum Warrior?
Gruz mother-> False-> VS->VK-> Hornet-> MMC-> Claw-> Soul warrior
hexed iris
I got 20 minutes, 50 seconds
Bro how 👀
Like is there a trick or skip I don’t know about
queen birch
Are you doing the fireball skip in greenpath?
hexed iris
If I am able to do it
Mostly I fail XD
The time was without it I think
Also you can’t do inventory drops on ps btw
queen birch
Right. I was playing 1.2.2.1, so there's a little time save from inv drops.
Right by the fireball skip, there's a squit under the platform. You can lure him to the right place and bounce off it if you miss the fireballs
hexed iris
Oh thanks
I think I am wasting a lot of time in the Hornet fight
I can do it quickly but not quickly enough
queen birch
Learning how to do the hornet fight fast is worth it
hexed iris
Also MMC wasn’t nice to me and spammed the jump
Meaby we are going different routes for the claw?
And one is faster
Which one are you using?
queen birch
I benched at waterfall then ran back to take the same route any% current patch uses to claw. Then i do the explosion pogo room in reverse to get to city of tears
hexed iris
IGT?
queen birch
Yeah, mine is loadless
snow dome
"In Game Time". On PC we use a timer that removes loads from the final time.
Also you're not playing PS4, which is hell.
queen birch
23:28 realtime
hexed iris
On pc it’s better for speedrunning but I think the controls fit ps better tbh
snow dome
Also remember that you are new to Speedrunning and starting with a run you're planning yourself.
hexed iris
That is true
snow dome
The PS4 has about a quarter of a second if input lag for me compared to PC.
hexed iris
I am just amazed how quickly you can do it
snow dome
Without paying both I'm not sure you'll understand.
I didn't get it until going back to PS 4 recently.
But the difference is kind of absurd.
hexed iris
That’s why there are different leaderboards for ps probably
Also I still died twice in that run
That’s 5 minutes down
You can save some time with the explosion pogo as well with the fireball skips
Also load time + inverntory drops
Meaby my time is really good with the route and platform I am using
queen birch
inventory drops probably saved me 10 ish seconds and I didn’t do explosion pogo. The most important things ate getting the greenpath skip and not dying
hexed iris
I only die in 1 part
Soul sanctum
When you have to flip the switch to access Soul warrior
And if I survive I die to Soul warrior cause I hat only 2 masks
queen birch
If you fix those two issues, your time should go down to the 20’s
lime ibex
?guides
sick ravenBOT
final nymph
What is the current all skills route?
snow dome
?guides
sick ravenBOT
snow dome
Should be in there
queen birch
Just tried the ddive route and it kinda didn't work. You get claw quicker, but you don't get shaman's stone, and having to go back and forth to sanctum takes time
I'll give it another go and report the time
queen birch
38 minutes
It looks like you're 8 minutes ahead because no relic gathering, but then soul sanctum takes back the entire lead
So dive / lantern in all minibosses [hard] are about the same in terms of duration, but in one you get shaman stone and in the other you get dive
wind elbow
Does anyone have a guide for setting up the autosplitter? I used the fireborn guide with the hksplitmaker thing but it doesnt start the timer
queen birch
Press enable in the settings. The timer starts when you start a new game
wind elbow
I did and when I start a new game the timer turns green but stays in 0.00
knotty vigil
is this works
digital jewel
what patch do you want
digital jewel
1432 is in betas in steam
knotty vigil
i want multiple versions
digital jewel
yes
snow dome
You can copy the files and then use the "multiple installs" section of the downpatch guide
knotty vigil
okay thanks 🙂
snow dome
?guides
sick ravenBOT
snow dome
The difference is where you're downloading them from, so ignore the first bit and only look at the multiple installs section
knotty vigil
this is not pirate version right?
buoyant urchin
Im just starting to do speed runs, though on switch and PC, so not all the skips possible (plus no speed run mod). How does this change schedule of a 'good' run? I guess it'd be real hard to get sub-60, but sub 90? I myself now aiming for 120 mins, considering im not a good player (still doing P5) and i need ddark to finish watcher knight quickly and reliably. (in the last run i ended up with 4:52 so just under the 5 hrs threshold for the achievements - and struggled a lot with wk (before deciding to get ddark) and thk)
snow dome
Im just starting to do speed runs, though on switch and PC, so not all the skips...
You can check out other Switch runs on Speedrun.com. They have their own section under "Console Runs".
There's guides for Current patch on there, and you can look at how other people do it.
?guides
sick ravenBOT
snow dome
The game is hard, so just keep trucking and you'll get there.
knotty vigil
how to download mods into downpatched HK
buoyant urchin
There's guides for Current patch on there, and you can look at how other people ...
Thanks!
snow dome
how to download mods into downpatched HK
You will need mods for that specific version. If you're on 1.4.3.2 you can head to #archived-modding-help. If you're on 1.2.2.1 you'll need to check out the server in the pinned messages and head to the Resources channel in there.
vocal iron
What makes 1.2.2.1 faster in the NMG categories?
snow dome
Mainly hitting the Watcher' Spire lever through the wall
vocal iron
Aside from that, are there any other big losses for running on current patch?
twin swallow
some unskippable cutscenes will cost you about 35 seconds total
snow dome
Oh what that's so weird
vocal iron
What about 106% and 112%
snow dome
112 can't be run on 1221
Those two are patch exclusive
106 is a 1221 category, 112 is 1.4.3.2+
You can do a non-Pantheon "full clear" run on 1.4.3.2+. It is 107%. You skip all 5 pantheons and Godtuner.
vocal iron
Ah that's what I was assuming 106% would be on current patch
snow dome
The route is slightly different due to balance changes on Flukenest