speedrunning

[lusty scroll]

got mine to 1hr after my pb of 1hr 45 over a week ago feels good

turns out practcing things so you dont die as much helps

[ebon nexus]

yo congratulations

Bro finally my controller is working on 1.2.2.1

[native cypress]

i'm still on a "custom route" that gets isma's tear so i don't have to acid skip

but now i feel motivated to learn that as well

[ebon nexus]

Bro I have no idea why, but I never can do the fireball skip

is there a tutorial?

[jagged vault]

They are quite precise

Make sure to use quick cast

[lusty scroll]

get fireborns any% nmg playlist and go to greenpath

he explains it well

[jagged vault]

The rest is just about timing the turnarounds and fireball inputs precisely

[lusty scroll]

honestly the most important one is not as precise as it seems, im still stumped on the final one in greenpath myself though

mostly for the jump timing

i do NOT get it

[jagged vault]

The final one is the most precise

On current patch even more so

[lusty scroll]

oh wait is there a difference on current patch for that one?

[elfin vortex]

If it makes it easier u can set it up using the arch above u and waiting a tiny bit

[jagged vault]

They moved the top platform to the left

[lusty scroll]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[jagged vault]

So if you jump too early you bonk your head

[lusty scroll]

thats why its so much harder than it should be im jumping early AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

good ol current patch random bs

why is thk slightly harder? who knows but it sucks

[elfin vortex]

Nice a fellow cp runner

[lusty scroll]

yeah im still doing stuff in godhome and i cant be assed to mess with downpatching etc

[reef nexus]

I feel like hk tends to eat jump inputs

[jagged vault]

THK was made faster on current patch, as well as dealing two masks on the pillar attack

[true palm]

you're not wrong, happens more on 1221

[ebon nexus]

tks, I'll do it

[reef nexus]

I'm on current path tho

[undone widget]

Quick question on the debug menu for 1210 windows, how do i unbind somthing , like exampel "toggle player hud, " when i click on it ,its wating for a button but backspace and esc are valid options for keys, how do i set it to "nothing"

[lusty scroll]

i dont believe you can, just set it to ctrl+some random key instead

[undone widget]

that is a tad annoying ,cus some are already unbound

[lusty scroll]

if there is then its news to me

yeah ik

ive looked briefly but maybe someone else knows

[undone widget]

wolde be good to know if it was possible so i will keep my hopes up that its possible and somone might know 🙂 thanks anyways

[distant ingot]

I'm trying to run current patch any% for the hornet 1 fight can u still cancel her dialogue with a fireball?

[grizzled maple]

Yes but its not optimally worth it in the majority of categories

[distant ingot]

How?

[grizzled maple]

You're spending 3 nail hits worth of soul that could've been 15 damage on a text skip that saves negligible time. Its only worth in specific situations such as 1xx using fury as equal dps value next to spells.

[distant ingot]

Ok

[grizzled maple]

The other place it would be worth is doing a specific double hit version of the fight getting more value from a few fireballs. But thats rng so its not something people actually go for.

[distant ingot]

In green path im finally starting to get fireball skip but for the second fireball skip im.coming just short

Is there anything beside just my timing on my jump

[grizzled maple]

Which one are you calling the 2nd because there's 3
-immediately past baldur
-where you first see hornet
-the room past the first moss charger

[distant ingot]

I'm doing current patch so the one im talking about is after the moss charger

[grizzled maple]

I just wanna be sure because a lot of people forget the first one exists on cp because its rare to get 2 spits back to back

You can still do it if youre super lucky

[distant ingot]

Really?

[grizzled maple]

So there's a setup you can do for the last one. Jump into the arch of the ceiling and it'll force you down. From there buffer a jump and you should jump from the perfect spot. The turnaround timing and fireballs you'll just have to practice though.

[distant ingot]

Ok and for the back up is there besides the intended path or is there a short cut for that aswell?

[grizzled maple]

I dont have a video I can link unfortunately but there's a few runners who do this strat. I do have a video for the backup

[distant ingot]

Ok

[grizzled maple]

https://youtu.be/nHf1UgxvVFU

[distant ingot]

K thx

Ok that doesnt seem that hard it just seems like getting lucky on placements

[undone widget]

time for atelast 2 weeks of getting my ass handed to me by The Sonic wannabes,

going to have ptsd from watcher knights

[grizzled maple]

Current patch has consistent enemy positions so if the guy is too far right you were too slow. Usually one fail means you might have to take a little more time to agro than I did in that video.

Hes usually still close enough

[devout wing]

i'm getting consistent with comfy pogo

[uneven scarab]

It really do be comfy

[old sierra]

Hey guys, just learning Any% NMG CP, and I am working on practicing The Hollow Knight. What is this Spore Shroom strat I am seeing in a few runs? Apparently this is used because of a bug with THK? Is this faster than using fireball spam?

[true palm]

getting sporeshroom is slower, but the fight is faster

onmiwes run does sporeshroom, believe they're top 3 right now for any% cp?

[old sierra]

Yeah, that's where I saw it first

[true palm]

its a different route

[old sierra]

Funnily enough, I believe you were in his chat

[true palm]

ye so basically sporeshroom routes the same as the beginner deepnest route instead of qga

after uumuu, go to fungal wastes, pick up sporeshroom, go to deepnest, and then go to beasts den

[old sierra]

Yeah, that's what I am already practicing, so I figured if the sporeshroom fight was quicker/easier, I'd go that route for now.

[true palm]

its technically like 10s slower at a top level, but is faster to learn and faster to run as a beginner

[old sierra]

But couldn't find much information regarding the spore strat

I think I'll give it a shot, the save I am practicing on already has the charm

What do you run in your other notches?

[true palm]

it replaces shamans

since you wont fireball anyway

[old sierra]

And you just run a single charm?

[true palm]

yup

as a beginner you can pick up soul catcher though

[old sierra]

Exactly what I was thinking

[true palm]

and use that for greenpath as well

[old sierra]

Yep, already running exactly that

[true palm]

its slower at a top level but good for beginners really comfy

the fights pretty simple

just heal whenever possible

thk will naturally dash into you

you can reset the cd on sporeshroom by taking damage, but wouldnt recommend starting with that

[old sierra]

yeah, watched Onmiwe's fight a few times now. Looks a lot easier than having to land the double fireballs

I'll give this a whirl then. Appreciate the help!

[subtle glade]

Does this quick pause normal or does mod API/debug add this?

[iron drum]

it's normal

[jagged vault]

it is not

[iron drum]

Skurry does that in his speedruns

[jagged vault]

not on 1221 at least

the menu does not open that quickly

(also, skurry uses they/them pronouns)

[iron drum]

oh sorry

[jagged vault]

although i'm not sure if debug adds the faster menus tbh

[iron drum]

but I thought they do it in their normal unmodded legit speedruns?

[jagged vault]

maybe it does and i just have a super old version

[haughty fossil]

they do the same but its not as fast

[jagged vault]

oh yeah, you can open the menu

to get early control

[iron drum]

oh, but not that fast? gotcha

[jagged vault]

but it's a question of how fast it pops up and closes

[haughty fossil]

it might be to do with benchwarp's menu actually?

[subtle glade]

I think I was doing that without benchwarp before

[iron drum]

also, are scream skips using inventory allowed in nmg?

[haughty fossil]

no

[jagged vault]

no

they cause inventory storage, which is a major glitch

[subtle glade]

Inventory storage, so no

[iron drum]

ok, thx ^^

[jagged vault]

https://youtu.be/kGqzEVfluik?t=25

[iron drum]

but scream skipping by bumping into the boss is ok?

[haughty fossil]

yes

[jagged vault]

for reference, here is how the menu opens normally

in non-modded

[iron drum]

ok, thx ^^

[subtle glade]

I know, I just found that if you spam pause again instead of like B it "cancelles" the opening of pause instead of opening and closing it, but I guess it's something mods add

Btw blue I watched your stream recently, the one with seamless pv-absrad transition lol

[iron drum]

also, how is that you can inventory drop, but you can't inventory scream skip? sorry if question is dumb, I'm new to this

[verbal stag]

inventory scream skip gives you inventory storage which is a major glitch

inventory drops do not

[subtle glade]

If you inventory scream skip, you get inventory storage, that means you can move around with inventory open, also the game thinks you have inventory but you don't basically

[jagged vault]

inventory storage means tricking the game that you have the inventory state when you don't

hence "storage" of a game state

[subtle glade]

This causes some weird interactions

[jagged vault]

this is pretty broken and can be used for lots of major stuff

inventory dropping however is just opening the inventory

[subtle glade]

Example of inventory storage

[iron drum]

oh wow

that explains that

thanks much

[atomic lynx]

@wide saddle congratulations dude i can't speak but that was impressive

[wide saddle]

thx

forgot to show no mods lul

[true palm]

inventory storage is a gateway to a lot of glitches, and its one of the most common major glitches to accidentally get. You can get it from inventory skipping boss screams, opening inventory during vertical transitions, and a couple other ways. its however extremely annoying to use since it inhibits your movement like nail swinging and also covers up your screen. iirc inventory storage can lead into float

another common one is bench storage

hollow knights pretty broken at its core and you should check out some of the glitches if you haven't

the way that the game checks character state and handles timescale and just basic systems is so broken

[dreamy bough]

just fyi this very much looks like transition storage, not inventory storage

[digital jewel]

it actually is inv storage. some platforms are close enough to the transition you come from that you can open inv while still having control

[patent needle]

no, that's definitely transition storage

[subtle glade]

Idk fire called it inv storage in his vid so that's what I called it

[patent needle]

you're still considered to be in the transition until the timer runs out that would normally give you control

and opening inv during a transition gives you transition storage

it has some of the same effects as inv storage, along with some side effects

including uncapped fall speed while still having control, being able to talk to NPCs and pick up items while moving, and not being able to use nail, dnail, cdash or wings

[subtle glade]

So how does inv storage work? I thought this was called inv storage

[patent needle]

closing inv removes it

inv storage is just being able to move around with inv open

no other effects

[subtle glade]

Let me know if I understand this right, so transition storage is opening inventory during the transition, and then when you exit the transition you get control over the knight but your inventory is still open?

[patent needle]

correct

the game still thinks you're in a transition, which is why some things act weird

[wide saddle]

i just did a 21:30 P5 run, pretty happy with that time

without shaman stone because i like steady body too much :c

[digital jewel]

why would you remove shaman stone of all charms?

[wide saddle]

fury + strength + quickslash + shaman stone, in that build shaman stone is the weakest

it does speed up both grimm fights and radiance but meh, im not competing for rank 1 so i'll play steady body for comfort

[snow dome]

You know

Taking the base assumption that you can spam nail constantly and not miss, then get one spell off after 3 hits every single time:
Shaman's Stone adds 17.5 damage per second if we Abyss Shriek, not taking into account how long Abyss Shriek actually takes to fire off. (Because it isn't listed anywhere I can see easily)

Every single other charm here is way, way better than that output

It's probably worth looking into non-Shaman Stone stuff for a purely nail build. Even something like Mark of Pride might actually be better for guarenteeing the hits

Also, seeing as you're on Fury, you can Overcharm

[wide saddle]

since i wanted to use steady body, i couldn't use pride without overcharming so i went for longnail
i wouldn't overcharm on fury though, this isn't hitless, i take a lot of damage but i tank it with blue masks, sometimes intentionally

[snow dome]

Fair. I have no idea how much Overcharming would affect this kind of run

The numbers on Shaman Stone are actually not as great as they seem when you have Nail 4

[wide saddle]

mhh depends, top runners get a looooot of blue masks but they face tank NKG at the end so hard they lose a lot of it

i for sure couldn't afford it

[hearty sphinx]

a monumental day for hollow knight speedrunning

[edgy kiln]

pb

[digital jewel]

what a fantastic day to be hk speedrun community fan

[knotty vigil]

What’s a nail cancel?

[stuck raptor]

when you cast a spell prior to the animation of the nail swing finishing, but after the dmg was dealt

[knotty vigil]

Alright thanks

Wait

How would that be useful?

[somber cedar]

faster damage rotation

[knotty vigil]

Ah I see

[stuck raptor]

Saving time is always useful

[knotty vigil]

Makes sense

Added it to the terminology list

[safe crypt]

ei

i wanna make speed un of less of 5 hours

recomedtions?

[dusk portal]

Pretty much all categories tbh

Except 112% APB maybe

[safe crypt]

is that i wanna wake the archivement of speedtun 5 hours

[twin swallow]

5h achievement guide in pinned messages

[undone widget]

So i got a question, i am still new enough where i get my ass handed to my by watcher knights with old nail, but with sharpend nail i get them amout 70% of the time, and sins i won't be getting high on the leader bords at the start i don't mind going slower but more consistnet, When wolde be a good ide to get the sharpend nail, Before the safty bench so you can save warp, or before you even head towards them ?

[safe crypt]

wat

not write so quieckly

[undone widget]

TL:DR i want to get sharpend nail before doing watcher knights in 1210 nmg any%, when wolde be a good ide to get it , before i get the bench close to them or after ?

[haughty fossil]

before, then quit out to the bench after upgrading the nail

[safe crypt]

Well, if you want, then improve your agijon before fight withe the w.k

[undone widget]

@haughty fossil so i warp back to king station bench ?

[haughty fossil]

get the watcher spire bench

[undone widget]

so the safety bench before the black room ?

thing was i was wondering if that was faster, then insted of taking elevator up and doing pogo to head to watcher spire, if going staright for nail smith was faster

[subtle glade]

Xero said this before:
Get the wanderer's journal above mantis village after mantis claw. then in city instead of hitting the lever at the bottom and going to watcher knights you:
-rest at watchers spire bench
-go the upper path towards lemm
-collect the hallownest seal
-sell everything to lemm
-buy nail1 and quit out
then after wk you can go straight down watchers spire to kings stag

[undone widget]

ohh yhe that will balace out the 250 cost for nail with the extra journal

[haughty fossil]

you grab the seal in rafters so that you can leave the seal from wk and just leave, so you only do one lemm trip overall

[undone widget]

and make "beginner runs" easier, i got matis claw at 11 min , but was stuck on watcher knight and at 40 min i gave up lmao

i have been able to practice the early game allot so i am "decent at it " but anything after knights is still hard , cus in a normal old nail run i can't even beat them 🙂

[subtle glade]

Don't worry, wk take everyone a while to learn

[undone widget]

i never strugled with them cus on my casual run city of tears dreamer was the last one i did

and already hade tier 4 nail at that point

Thanks for the help btw @subtle glade @haughty fossil

really welcoming community feels great

[subtle glade]

Glad to help

[jagged vault]

it's a good day to be a hollow knight runner and an msushi fan

ah heck sorry for reply ping

[hearty sphinx]

unbelievable behavior. my lawyers will be in contact with you shortly.

[mossy sapphire]

screw these 3 stupid bosses

2nd went-to-the-end speedrun

thats bad

[quiet saddle]

Better than nothing, which is all you can ask for st the start. Keep grinding! :)

[burnt grove]

anybody know the cooldown time for fireballs? is it the same as nail?

[uneven scarab]

It should be somewhat similar, I should ask: are you using the quick cast button for fireballs?

[mossy sapphire]

Thanks :)

I should practice bosses

I didnt

Thats why me run is so bad

I wasted so much time against wk, uumuu ane thk

[burnt grove]

yes

[knotty vigil]

What is a super slide?

[burnt grove]

most fb skips work best when the fbs are as close together as possible, so I'm wondering if I can leverage my nail timing sense

[haughty fossil]

pausing on the same render frame as you get knockback to maintain momentum from the knockback while paused

[knotty vigil]

Thanks

[haughty fossil]

you can't, as nail inputs have a buffer whereas fireball doesn't

just gotta practice it

[knotty vigil]

You mean pause the game, correct

[haughty fossil]

yes

[knotty vigil]

Mkay

[haughty fossil]

people usually limit to 50fps or 100fps to make it easier in nmms

[knotty vigil]

NMMS?

[haughty fossil]

no main menu storage

[knotty vigil]

Ah

[burnt grove]

<@&284848710960021504> can I have my blue name back?
https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/me6r0r3z

(sorry for the noise)

oh wow that was fast

[burnt grove]

oh awesome, thanks

[undone widget]

First run ever completed and first time actualy fighing HK , did Phanteon as my first compleation, went as expected, Watcher knights kicked my ass like 15 times, and Uumuu and tear skip was annoying, Big 2 dmg spider dudes took forver to kill and hk killed me 4 times .... BUT this is progress, and will just be getting better

when you use CD to go towards deepnest after monomon

where you dash in to the wall and CD to go past the thorns

[haughty fossil]

qga

[undone widget]

the one in queens garden yes

[digital jewel]

there's actually another route to deepnest there

are you on current patch?

[undone widget]

i know the simpler one , this is 1210

[digital jewel]

ok you know it already

[undone widget]

but if i am going to continue running , i will have to learn qga cd eventualy so might just start learning it now , only reason i get nail uppgrade is so i can even get to the " mid game "

cus f watcher knights lmao

[digital jewel]

yeah that's fair

[undone widget]

its not my first speed game , i just kinda suck at hollow knight :). i know that if i want to get a good time , i need to learn the faster routes eventualy so might start with them, the nail i go for is just for early run's consistency. Other then that i try to do most of the stuff in the any% guide

like fast lasers in Crystal, aswell as atleast attempting pog axe 1 time per run

[digital jewel]

yep it's hard at the start to do everything but you'll keep improving at it

[undone widget]

yep that is why i don't really mind my first run beaing 1 hour 30 , was not expecting to get a sub 1 h, until like 30 / 50 runs in

won't upload it tho , that will be when i get sub 1

[elfin vortex]

Is 2:37 ok for a 1st complete PoP run? Waiting for its verification but Im pretty unhappy with it tbh cuz i made so many mistakes

[true palm]

the thing about deepnest route thats criminally underrated is it takes almost no time to learn, nail1 you have to reroute a bunch of stuff, deepnest requires no skips, nothing. Its very noncommittal

[true palm]

thats a solid time

you dont have to be within frames of rekky to be considered good at POP, its very cycle based so timeloss is pretty irregular

like schy was talking about being unable to make TAS cycle, which costs a couple seconds, even though they were missing the cycle by a couple frames

either way the times fine

as long as its not your 2 hour casual run of path of pain most things are good to start off with

[elfin vortex]

Certain cycles I def need to get better and more consistent at like the final room and dropping through the saws in the first. Im doing this for verification cuz of the 112 guide me and glowingicefire are making but this cats growing on me ngl

[true palm]

white palace ILs and path of pain are criminally underrated

like i know runners who run true ending just for white palace (cough cough Gwonkee cough cough)

[elfin vortex]

Theyre short but challenging unlike kp which is short and... uh... boring

[elfin vortex]

Wp was a major factor as to why i chose to main 112 lol. Its so fun

[true palm]

i just think one of the issues is that wings movement tends to be a banger (like abyss climb) but main cats very rarely have wings long enough to have fun with them

[undone widget]

was this meant for me ?

[elfin vortex]

Mhm. Abyss is great but esp with how nice good movement with them is its sad wing movement like that isnt part of runs much at all

[true palm]

not for you specifically it could be if you wanted

you can learn deepnest in the time it takes to learn just the petra arena

[undone widget]

i know how to move from deepnest to heera, main thing i stuggled with in the run is the mask spider dudes that block small hallways that do 2 dmg

i know you are supposed to face tank body dmg for 1 dmg insted of 2

then do 2 swings fire ball 2 swings to kill them

[true palm]

you dont have any devouts to deal with outside of beasts den

which you still have to do with qga

[undone widget]

i mean you have to do beasts den in 1210 any% nmg

[true palm]

ye thats what im saying

[undone widget]

aka the catagoryi run

[true palm]

is deepnest route doesnt have extra devouts, so its not like qga solves that

[undone widget]

im confused on what we are talking about ?

i know qga does not skip any of them , and i know that i have to fight devouts no matter what so am i missing the point of your first statment ?

[true palm]

oh i was saying that learning qga isnt really mandatory but it sounded like you already learned it

[undone widget]

its not mandatory unless you are going for a high placing , so sins i want to get a good time eventualy i might just start learning the harder starts now when i am having " fun" learning the game

is my view on speed games

[true palm]

i wasnt directing the statement that deepnest routes non committal at you per se, i was just saying that in general we should make it clear that out of all beginner strats, its probably the most plug and unplug strat

i mean beginner strats are fine

lots of top runners started with deepnest

[undone widget]

yhe i just have a wired way of learning speed games, i usualy add as much of the hard strats in the begining so when i eventualy get consistnet i won't have much to add

/ re learn

[jagged vault]

that's a very valid way to go about it

[true palm]

my view is if a beginner strat takes time to learn its not worth, but deepnest route doesnt, im not saying you have to learn it, nor am i saying you should since you already learned qga, i'm just saying its the easiest strat to drop and pick up, very plug in and go and unplug when you dont need it

but starting with the fastest route is still a great way to run the game

[undone widget]

i see your view . Its just i have fun grinding , i see the slow improvment as fun and not a time on the leader bord as one , so if it takes me 1 year + to get a decent time vs 1 / 2 month with a avrage time but low potential of getting better with out doing new stuff, i wolde rather just spend the extra time early when i am having fun just getting consistent and get the better time then a " slower/ but easier to get one "

did the same thing for my Psyconauts runs, did most of the hard starts early, took forever to get a run on the bord, when i got consistent at them i got a top 10 time ( hard to get)

[true palm]

thats fair, and a lot of people dont go into any% these days with a placement goal, but rather a personal/time goal, or just a hobby. Since deepnest only loses 40s, it tends to be a great solution for a lot of people. but it sounds like you want to grind any% to get a top time which is very respectable

for me personally, i found most of my interest residing in other categories that didnt need qga, so i learned the strat for fun and some of queens gardens, but didnt grind for consistency since i didnt plan on sticking with any%

[undone widget]

understandable

[true palm]

anyways personal opinion about nail1 though, and you'll see this sentiment shared a lot, is that by the time you have the fight down with nail1, you're almost able to do it with nail0

nail1 is about a 20% damage increase on average when you count in shamans

so dont feel bad

you basically have the fight down at this point

if you really wanted to you could drop a couple more like 1 hour practice sessions or something to drop it, but its not going to be a difficult strat for you to drop

[undone widget]

yep i just get nail1, so i can get past the knights, im not at a lvl where i can beat them with out dying on nail0 ,

so sins that is the only thing "blocking" me from grinding or even playing the late/mid game i will lose a bit of time to practice the "practice" i got from debug. except for debug , today was the first time out of my 5 run attempts that even made it past watcher knights hence why my late game is so bad compared to my early game

got explosion pog 1st try, good hornet fight for my standerd etc

[true palm]

where would you say your runs tend to die? out of curiosity

[undone widget]

before i got nail 1 , i wolde go in to watcher knights at like ... give or take 20 23 mintus, then i won't leave until like 45 50

cus i suck at that fight

[true palm]

i feel that

i think my first low% run went into watchers at like 24, left at like 40

and that was my first submitted one

not counting the bunch where i dropped out at 50

[undone widget]

but the main thing is " i consitently get to watchers at a good pace for me ," so i will allways get to practice them ,but if every run dies at them , i will never get any real practice for mid / late game. So i do nail one to minmies the time i am stuck on them

i won't be posting any runs that are over 1 hour , and i will continue grining and grining until i get that time , then the real fun begins when i have my own time to beat

[true palm]

ye i like doing segment practice for late game with debug mod and savestates, just repetition to get a new category done

qga -> end is brutal so I'd drop practice time there

like if you make it past watchers, you really dont want to kill your run there

beasts den and thk hardsave you at a close bench, so in particular dont die in qg

[undone widget]

like the main 3 parts i have is , 15 min watcher, 15 min herrah and 11 min hk, if i just knock 2 of them down to 5 min or 6 , i will be sub 1 hour already

so its not that far away

[true palm]

so the one thing i noticed about your splits btw

is that they're fairly spread out

i recommend following the any% comsob splits, they tend to be a good length and its a little easier to compare

15 minutes from uumuu to herrah, a lot of shit can happen

its hard to tell why thats 15 minutes long without more splits

[undone widget]

well splits in general are just personal perference, to keep tack on waht you have to do in a run , tecnicaly if you have the brain capacity you can run with 0 splits

[jagged vault]

yeah it's useful to be able to pinpoint more accurately where mistakes and timelosses happen

[undone widget]

if you know how fast you need to be , and what to do in a run

[true palm]

community tends to use these splits https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11LPxgQur-x6ioPrvMVUrdKSkGRDT07R1_Lqs55bxrRs/edit?usp=sharing

[jagged vault]

to be able to disperse practice time more efficiently

[true palm]

by no means is it required to use these ones

but this lets us track the best times as a community

it'll be nice later if you want a top time as well

these golds i sent are referred to as comsob, dont expect to get these times listed, if you were to beat one that would be the fastest ever done

[undone widget]

i know what community golds are

keep in mind i speed run allot , just not hk

[true palm]

ye idk any individual runners experience, and a lot of games dont have community golds

[undone widget]

well i mentiond it above

also side not , love the rainworld pfp

#slugcatbestcat

[jagged vault]

rain world?

slug cat cute cat

[undone widget]

i have risk of rain on my mind

aaaaaaaaa

spend to much time in the game , and they both have rain in it

140 hours in ror2 last 2 weeks

[true palm]

ye rain worlds a great game, been learning to run that one as well, point being 15 minutes could be a death in queens gardens, a death in beasts den, falling in distant village

it could be a lot of things

[undone widget]

i will consider it , but atm i will keep my splits as they are, sins i know have time to save in like 90% of the run

make that like 97%

[true palm]

you also said you struggled with devout tanking? do you need help with that?

since its almost required, (one damage from hazard warp + 2 damage from each devout = dead knight)

[undone widget]

atm its 2 am in sweden, so im going to head to bed in a min , will watch through the late game parts of the fireborn guide, on deepnest and devot fighting

[true palm]

sounds good, from what i hear you're making progress. Good luck with your future runs!

[undone widget]

well progress will be "slow and fast" sins this was only my 5th run ever, aswell as first time ever fighting HK, so tomarrow will prly stream some debug practice, then some more run attempts

welp thanks for the help and interesting conversations on different perspectives on speed running, see yha tomorrow

[quiet saddle]

I'd highly recommend not bothering with devout tanking for now.

The time save for your level isn't worth the very real risk of losing 2 HP and the guarantee of progressing through Herrah with 1 less HP.

I asked for a safe way to fight devouts and someone told me to do nailx2 -> dash away -> nail x 2 -> dash away -> fireball. It doesn't lose you much time in context of your level, and is very consistent.

[quiet saddle]

You're supposed to wait for open -> nail x2 -> dash in to get hit -> nailx2 (upslash is nice for not bouncing) -> fireball

If your logic is that you want to do hard strats first, why bother with nail1? You're going to be devoting a lot of time to routing that you will stop using very quickly.

Just wanted to kinda slap my thoughts down after catching up; I know you're already gone G3. Good luck on le grind

[true palm]

devout tanking is simple, but knowing how to kill devouts damageless is important because some math here-> 1dmg from hazard warp + 2 dmg from devouts is 2hp, if you get hit by spike spider into spikes welp you dont have enough hp, or you fail qga once, you cant get hit in beasts den at all.

also if your fast you can get two nailswings and a fireball before the devout swings back which is tight, but saves almost a second so if you ever get to that level keep that in mind. in addition, you can actually side slash -> upslash -> walk into devout -> upslash -> upslash -> fireball which feels comfier than dashing into the devout.

devouts have 100 hp,, vs does 20, so healing in order to get a tank doesnt lead to more damage, since it only gives two extra nailswings

(all in the context of any%, obviously other categories have different damage numbers/tools)

[quiet saddle]

The tanking is simple but I think avoiding it's important for a new runner since Herrah sucks enough as it is.

And you're not going to lose much time, in context of a new runner, by doing the safe dash strat

[quiet saddle]

How does this feel comfier btw?

Timing a dash input is much easier than controlling your spacing and timing a walk into the devout

[quiet saddle]

Also let's be real; they're getting hit in beasts den. That's just a fact for early runners (I group myself in there)

Beast's den sucks ass on its own, and that's not even counting the pressure of being late game in your run. 😆

[true palm]

because theres nothing to time, the side slash pushes you back perfectly, its what i do in low%

its a preference thing obviously

also i expect people to get hit and heal, especially if you're not sub hour, i'm just saying that even at a high level, people get hit, so its not like damageless devouts are beginner strats they're backups

[quiet saddle]

Ah, i see.

[quiet saddle]

Do you not still need to space your nail hit correctly? If you're too far away, even if you're holding walk, won't you still tank the claw hit?

I'm only asking because that's a timing thing at that point, if the answer to my first question is yes.

[true palm]

if you side slash while holding left/ right, and slash up while still holding the direction, you will be fine

at no point do you need to let go of holding a direction after the slash

[quiet saddle]

Yea, I'm saying even if you never let go, I would've thought that if you swung too early, you get pushed back too far to damage tank appropriately + you gotta be sure you're swinging early enough when it opens

All I'm getting at is that timing still seems important there to me, tho I don't use that strat so I defer to you here

[true palm]

no no if you upslash you'll make it in time

[quiet saddle]

Ok cool

[true palm]

because remember, you still need to get two slashes in either method

in the dash method, you're further back and have to dash to make it in time

in fact its less lenient

the only reason it can be considered less comfy is if you do a second sideslash and not an upslash and dont dash you get hit

so as long as your second swing is an upslash or if you dash after you should be fine

[quiet saddle]

I 100% disagree with this.

Your distance doesn't matter

Actually wait

by dash method, do you mean dashing away to be safe or dashing in for damage tank?

[true palm]

dashing in for the tank

its not about distance

its about timing

#low-percent message um this isnt a perfect example since this is low% specific

and i dont hold left

[quiet saddle]

There's no need to be further back for the dash method

[true palm]

but its what it looks like

[quiet saddle]

You can be at a bunch of different spacings and it works

Which is why I call it more lenient than walking

[true palm]

the recoil from first sideslash actually keeps your position consistent

like i spent hours on devout strats because low%

[quiet saddle]

If you dash in, your position is also consistent lol

[true palm]

its the same either way is what im saying im not saying ones better

im saying leniency in timing is more consistent

since if you dont dash immediately after side slash thats rough

i'm not saying that upslash is better, i'm saying its more comfy for me because you dont have to dash between second slash and devout swing

its merely an alternative method

[quiet saddle]

I think timing said dash input after the side slash is way easier than getting the proper slash timings of that low% method, but we can agree to disagree here. They're both fairly valid and the gap in difficulty either way (regardless of which one of us is correct) isn't huge so it doesn't matter much, I agree

[true palm]

its a lot easier in practice, but the important thing is to find a way to not take two damage every tank

so if thats an alternative method go for it

[quiet saddle]

For sure

Tho I hope we both agree that new runners don't need to bother tanking at all?

I mean disclaimer; obv do whatever hard strats you like, etc

But I mean in general

[true palm]

i think its not necessary, but compared to other mandatory strats, its not that bad

[quiet saddle]

You must be really good at Herrah

I clench at the thought of losing HP on purpose there

[true palm]

herrahs pretty bad, like if you're running into the first devout with 3 hp, i'd still tank

if you get hit by a spider you live

the only way to die is to spike spider

[quiet saddle]

O.o

Your confidence

[true palm]

and tanking and healing is faster than not tanking

[quiet saddle]

You gotta get soul tho

[true palm]

my confidence is only because devout rng is shit

[quiet saddle]

Which cuts into your time.

[true palm]

devouts can literally sit there infintely without swinging

theres no hard code that says they have to attack

its like baldur spits

i just cant stand waiting as long as possible for them

keep in mind i started with low%, where we have to wait for the first devout to backup, take damage jumping over it, then double tank the last one

damage less devouts just arent an option

because you could only get one swing

so beasts den was an area i sat in for a while

i ended up labbing devouts for hours to come up with a way to single hp tank the last one

[quiet saddle]

Yea, I still find it wild that you Low% runners exist

It's just so much pain

[true palm]

its not an easy category to get into

but it can grow on you

particularly cpeak

but ye devout rng is something i cant stand

[quiet saddle]

I do not share the devout rng opinion but I have much more time save than you do, so that's fair.

[true palm]

also for a new runner, messing up devout tanking, dying only loses a couple minutes so like might as well go for it

as far as places in the run to die, its probably the most tame outside of thk

[quiet saddle]

Yea but you could also choose to just....die a lot less.

By not using tanking until you're confident enough in Herrah

[true palm]

ye im saying its not that hard to learn, its scary though

i'm not saying its not terrifying

[quiet saddle]

Tanking itself isn't difficult, no. But Herrah is.

Ok so we agree. Cool.

[true palm]

i think herrah is a part of the run that gets really breezed through in practice

in particular, spike spider and the spider before the grub are rough

something to note though for beginners

is the devout you dash over before the last one

has a bugged collision with the ceiling

you can pogo it infinitely if you dash over it just right

devouts tank 20 nailhits so thats full soul in a pinch

but ye long story short: devout tanking isn't hard to execute, but its scary to do, punishing if you mess up, and beasts den is already hard, and so is queens gardens, but if you die as a beginner thats ok

[quiet saddle]

Still crazy to me that G3 is doing qga

Also why are they on 1210 instead of 1221? Did they mention?

[true palm]

i think they said the wrong name

1210 doesnt have lever skip nor is it listed in the guide as an available patch

they'd notice pretty quickly

also id say its pretty 50 50 starting with qga versus deepnest, if you already've run games before, you understand the dedication going into it, and your goal is a good time long term and dont care when your first run is, do whatever hard strats you want

[quiet saddle]

Yea, just seems annoying to sign up for so much time loss and/or incomplete runs as a new player

[true palm]

all i was saying is learning nail0 watchers is more important to me than qga since you end up have to unlearn a lot more from nail1 compared to deepnest

[quiet saddle]

Like I haven't implemented QG yet but I'm grinding qga in practice so that I can swap over as seamlessly as possible

Also yea, nail1's trash

If you're gonna qga there's NO need for nail 1

I find those ideas so incompatible

But WK's do suck, we all agree lol

[true palm]

i mean i didnt even do qga in my any% run, i know how to, but i just didnt care enough to fail it in a run

which is the difference

my goal was not a great time

but just to get an ok time fast

[quiet saddle]

Yea, deepnest route is fine, esp if you don't wanna commit to any%. I'm just saying if you have the mentality of "wanna be good runner long term, so doing qga" that should also equate to "wanna be good runner long term, so doing nail0"

nail1 is just like such a waste to learn. Even in nail 1 routes, you're likely going to get good enough at the fight that it quickly stops impacting you

[true palm]

i agree, but it sounds like nail 1 is because they're trying to not spend 2 years learning watcher knights, so i take it they picked up qga fast

they said they're relatively new, i dont think they spent 2 months on qga or anything

[quiet saddle]

There is a distinction between the skill needed for a good boss fight and the skill of a trick, I suppose.

[true palm]

i think nail0 will just happen naturally when they spend more time in practice

[quiet saddle]

Yea, I think once they do enough runs, nail1 will stop mattering.

[true palm]

nail1 as a beginner strat is something i personally dislike due to having to unlearn mantis journal, unlearn spire bench, unlearn selling to lemm early and going left after lemm, relearn watchers journal, versus deepnest, unlearn going down in fog canyon

and then nail1 is pretty ineffective as well

i just think beginner strats need to a) make things easier b) take little time to learn and c) take little time to unlearn, which deepnest fits, and nail1 does not

which is the same reason someone asked me about beginner lantern strats with low%, and because its just a completely different scrambled route, i just have to say no, it takes longer to learn than darknest, takes longer to unlearn

[quiet saddle]

Yea, I mostly agree

I think all the rerouting of nail 1 is nowhere near worth it for the benefit it gives

[true palm]

its a 20% damage increase when you factor in shamans, you're 80% of the way through the fight, so we're looking at like 3 nailhits and a fireball away from just killing each watcher with nail 0

by the time you're remotely consistent enough to beat nail 1 watchers, you're probably good enough to do nail 0 with just like a couple hours of practice

[stoic echo]

what was the world record for beating any %?

[snow dome]

http://speedrun.com/hollowknight

[lusty bridge]

Anyone know why the watcher knights kept doing tiny jumps during the fight. It started off normal but after a while they didn't bounce twice during the jump attack

and whether this counts as "any glitch that breaks boss AI such that they are severely limited from moving or attacking"

[normal aspen]

current patch right?

[lusty bridge]

yeah

[normal aspen]

yeah that happens

the knight that enters that state will be like that until you kill it

its allowed and is just something yopu learn to play around

[lusty bridge]

alright thanks

[strong vessel]

Is that the same glitch as the 1221 stationary-bounce one?

But current-patch-ified?

[agile dagger]

Idk, although it has happened to me before on current patch

[normal aspen]

yeah its like they half fixed it 0on cp so they dont do the second standing bounce

[undone widget]

Again as is said multiple times, the only late game practice i have is the first ever run that made it past watcher knights yesterday and my debug practice, i am not good enough to consistently beat watcher knights deathless on nail0, but on nail 1 i get there aobut 70% of the time.

And sins im at such a early stage i wolde rather make it so my runs are a bit slower due to nail 1, but have a chance to let me practice in a run ,beast den qga crystal peak etc etc, Then have every run have good pace get to watcher knight sit there for 40 min then reset

[agile dagger]

I 100% agree

[undone widget]

imagain nail 1 as training wheels, once i can do the watcher knights deathless i won't need it

[agile dagger]

in my earlier runs i died to k about 3-5 times per run and then i got myself nail 1

i can do it first try consistently

wk*

it's probably best for new players if they practice nail 0 but use nail 1 until they're comfortable with nail 0

[undone widget]

i mena Wk nail 1 vs nail 0 is the same fight

you nail is still weaker then your fireballs

its just it speed up the fight a slight bit and also makes some areas in the later game easier

[queen ember]

Are some boss glitches not allowed?

For example the hornet not being able to jump bug, idk what causes it but ive only ever seen it with the debug mod active

[hearty adder]

like, her getting stuck on the ground during the fight? or do you mean the softlock?

[queen ember]

Stuck on the ground, she tries to jump and the animation plays but she goes nowhere

[hearty adder]

That qualifies for "Breaking Boss AI such that they are severely limited from moving or attacking", which is banned in No Major Glitches

[queen ember]

Ooo okay ty

[hearty adder]

src's Hollow Knight page has a button that says "View Rules", that will give you a list of banned glitches

[queen ember]

Okay cool, but wouldnt it be consistent to also not allow the watcher knight glitch? Hard to work around if it randomly activates

[digital jewel]

the watcher knight glitch isn't helpful at all

[hearty adder]

and also isn't severely preventing them from attacking or moving, it's just one of the attacks in their attack pool behaving slightly more wonky

[queen ember]

Well if they bounce twice instead of 3 times id say thats a slight advantage?

So severity of the glitch is what gets it banned?

[hearty adder]

The rules also say "Some use of glitches may be ignored if usage is both clearly accidental and not beneficial to the runner."

[queen ember]

Ahh okay thats fair

[hearty adder]

getting the bounce glitch is accidental and not really beneficial

for example, with Hornet, even if you get her accidentally stuck to the ground, her being stuck in place is giving you a big advantage because it lets you deal huge damage

[queen ember]

So would that mean you would have to reset if you happened to accidentally break hornets ai?

[hearty adder]

Yeah

[queen ember]

Ah that makes sense

Not worried about hornet shes easy and early in the run, but could this happen with bosses later in the run? I guess what im saying is if theyres any accidental reset worthy glitches on watcher knights, uumuu, or hollow knight you know of?

Specifically any% current patch nmg

[hearty adder]

when it comes to bosses, I honestly don't know if you can break their ai, so I'll let someone else answer that

[queen ember]

Mmk thank you for your help tho!

[subtle glade]

In the banned glitches the only mention of a boss is this: Breaking Boss AI such that they are severely limited from moving or attacking

So if a boss stops attacking or stops moving, I would guess that's a reset

[tired wyvern]

invisible thk

[haughty fossil]

(fwiw in 112 it is a time penalty issued, but for all other categories yeah its a forced reset)

[tired wyvern]

cries in pb pace

[subtle glade]

Clearly accidental and of no benefit to the player

[haughty fossil]

invis thk entirely allowed

just not ideal

[tired wyvern]

Ye p much lol

[mellow rampart]

someone ban him

[subtle glade]

what was the command?

?srpsa

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[dreamy bough]

in other bosses breaking that are (likely) not allowed, you can yeet lost kin out of the arena

that instakills it

[tired wyvern]

Jeez didnt know that

I remember seeing collector stay in stagger for a solid minute and thought I was on to something new

[subtle glade]

Oh by the way is soft landing just entirely random or do you have to do something for it to work?

[tired wyvern]

I was not

Depends on the part of the run

[subtle glade]

kp

[tired wyvern]

Dont rely on getting a soft landing there

[haughty fossil]

if you hold right and do nothing there is a 1/4 chance of just soft landing

[subtle glade]

That's weird

[haughty fossil]

if you do a minihop as the floor breaks and land on the upper platform its a guaranteed soft fall

[subtle glade]

But it's slower right

[tired wyvern]

Personally I like to jump and up slash to stop momentum

I’m not sure if it’s slower if you position right

But you dont have to reset 4 times for a minimum time save that could be completely made up later at poomu or smth

[subtle glade]

I mean you have to go back for a bit to land on the upper platform, so it must be slower

[tired wyvern]

Probably? But like fractions of a second difference

Only reason I wouldnt go for safe play there is going for wr

[dreamy bough]

.2 i think?

[subtle glade]

Fractions of seconds are important in kp

[tired wyvern]

Might be havent tested

[subtle glade]

Not for pb but I want those golds

[tired wyvern]

Ah

[subtle glade]

I don't even have any lurien time yet

Furthest split I got to ever was watcher chandelier

[haughty fossil]

dont trap yourself optimising kp

if you can get 51-52 consistently just move on

[subtle glade]

I'm not, I was just wondering

I usually get like 53.3 or lower, I'm fine with that

Alright, going to do a run wish me luck

[distant ingot]

I'm doing any% and i keep dieing in the place where u get vs I cant remember tge name green path the aspid room in cross roads and others in problably forgetting and I feel like im banging my head against a wall idk what to do

[elfin vortex]

@distant ingotPractise practise and practise. Same as anything else. Record urself complete a whole run (keep going even if u die/take dmg) and rewatch it. See what u did good and see what u did bad. See where u died and practise them in debug. See what works and doesnt work consistently and try implement those improvements into the next run u do and repeat

Oh yh and try not to burn out and give urself breaks when theyre needed

[subtle glade]

Any% NMG?

You know multiple pings won't help?

[distant ingot]

Yea I'm doing current patch nmg

[normal aspen]

@wary fern could u not spam ping

[distant ingot]

Yes plz

[subtle glade]

@wary fern yea ping spamming isn't cool

[distant ingot]

Dude

[haughty fossil]

@normal aspen cutie

thanks ifli

[elfin vortex]

Wow darkdg your HILARIOUS BRO srsly

[stuck raptor]

damn. mods got to it before i could

[distant ingot]

This is the thing that sucks not only do i not have a pc but im also on switch which makes it hard to practice

Let alone mod my game

[subtle glade]

You are not really far into the game - also, you can do a section then benchwarp back to practise

Doesn't always work but it's not that bad

[distant ingot]

Ok

[elfin vortex]

Damn well that makes it a whole lot harder. As hubibubi said ur only at the very beginning of the run but ig u'll have to practise parts individually by getting to them normally then learning it

[distant ingot]

Ok

Gonna make it more tedious but none the less its practice

[elfin vortex]

Whole reason why I switched to pc tbh. Even if ur pc is crap, in my opinion at least, its 100x better than console but then again im doing 112 which is much longer so learning 112 on console would be hell

[subtle glade]

Does the needle throw attack reset the stagger counter?

[digital jewel]

yes

[subtle glade]

I was at one health and shot a fireball that should have staggered, but hornet decided to throw her needle at me and I died

[digital jewel]

well there are two stagger counters for hornet. 1 is 6 hits and resets if you stop hitting her for too long or when she does needle throw, the other counter is I believe 12 or 15 hits? and never resets

when she gets staggered both counters get reset though

so you'll only see the 2nd type of stagger if she does needle throw

[subtle glade]

Isn't it 5? not 6?

[digital jewel]

5 on 1221 and 6 on current patch

[lusty scroll]

GOT SUB HOUR LETS GOOOOOOOOO

and i also lost 5 minutes to the thk lagging bug shit

[final plume]

false knight is hard :(

[quiet saddle]

For which category?

[final plume]

any %

i did shade skip, and now i have to do watcher knight

[subtle glade]

Wait, what order is that

Shade skip and then false knight?

[haughty fossil]

watcher Knights?

[final plume]

sorry, wrong thing

yeah watcher knights

[lusty scroll]

watcher knights are unironically not that bad after some practice, the real issue is when you want to do watcher knights fast

[stiff marsh]

Ok this is a long shot but I'm having a lot of trouble with processing power on my win10 bootcamp partition. Is there any way to use the autosplitter on mac os?

[stiff marsh]

watcher knights and hornet 2 are my major time saves for all skills ;o;

[lusty scroll]

my watcher knights on my pb are like 3 minutes lol i need to practice more aha

[digital jewel]

there isn't no

the autosplitter only works on windows

[stiff marsh]

Ok i kinda expected...sad panda

[quiet saddle]

It's universally agreed to be the hardest any% boss by a good margin, some grinding will make it less frustrating but it is a tough fight so don't beat yourself up over it

[elfin vortex]

nope. u could probs get it working with a vm running in macos like parallels or something similar but the performance will likely be abysmal esp compared to win10 through bootcamp

[stiff marsh]

I have it running in a win 10 partition but yeah the lag is unbearable and my computer gets too hot to touch u_u

[digital jewel]

are you on a laptop?

[stiff marsh]

Yep, and I have an eGPU but the windows partition doesn't use it properly

[digital jewel]

ah

[stiff marsh]

and it's not really feasible to build a whole windows rig just to maybe speedrun one game :/

[digital jewel]

probably it's cpu limiting you the most if that's any consolation

[lusty scroll]

does livesplit not have a cross platform version or am i misremembering?

[stiff marsh]

No theres no Livesplit app for mac, there are clones but the autosplitter isn't supported

[lusty scroll]

i mean theres a web version i believe you could try that out?

[stiff marsh]

I could do manual splits which I'll probably look into, but not ideal

[elfin vortex]

rip. I play on a win10 bootcamp partition myself and it works fine but that may be because I dedicated as much as possible when making the partition to win10. LS one doesnt have an autosplitter and runs in browser only (I think). U can use livesplit through WINE (allows u to run exe files) but the autosplitter is broken

[digital jewel]

the problem is that the autosplitter looks at the game memory. it'd need to be completely remade for ios or linux

I mean macos

🥴

[lusty scroll]

yeah thats the problem

[elfin vortex]

manual splitting works fine on ls run through WINE

[lusty scroll]

if you are new you could always do real time instead of game time

[stiff marsh]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to settle for real time. It's a pain but I'm not really gonna be competing for top times so it's not that big of an impact

Just a hassle to manually split 😛

[digital jewel]

yeah I'd say having the game run smoother is worth sacrificing loadless time for

just for your sanity

[stiff marsh]

Agreed Xero

[digital jewel]

obv your times will be worse, but hopefully you can enjoy yourself anyway

[subtle glade]

Damn cpeaks is hard

[stiff marsh]

tbh with the amount of missed movement due to lag I'll probably save time lol

[digital jewel]

lmao

possibly

[lusty scroll]

i have to practice fcking infected vengefly room for at least 20 mins in order to not eat shit

i hate it so so much

[stiff marsh]

Flying crystal shooty bugs hardest boss confirmed

[haughty fossil]

relatable

[subtle glade]

Infected vengefly room as in the one outside of crossroads stag or which one?

[haughty fossil]

correct

[stiff marsh]

omg YES

[lusty scroll]

i lost an actual minute to that room in my pb not even joking

in fact my crystal peaks split lost 2.5 mins total, at least thats timesave for next run lol

[true palm]

infected venegefly on cp, you should be content to take damage

[haughty fossil]

1 damage is like a normal scenario
0 damage is god tier

[true palm]

if they get really bad you can exit to the right side and reset the room below the cheart room

you can also quick toll by healing so keep that in mind

[lusty scroll]

ok so my run got submitted but livesplit used the old pb i had and not my new one, what do i do about it?

[digital jewel]

wdym about livesplit?

[lusty scroll]

i submitted via livesplit but it didnt use the correct times

[true palm]

dont autosubmit with livesplit

just do it with the website

for future ref it should be pending

and you can edit it

[lusty scroll]

ok gotcha, its not letting me edit the times so ill do that when it lets me

ok it worked thanks for the help!

[digital jewel]

yeah I've never tried submitting through livesplit, I just do everything manually on the site

[true palm]

ye no problem, auto submitting through livesplits jank

[lusty scroll]

yeah i thought itd be ok but i guess not aha

[hallow orchid]

You can submit through livesplit? TIL

[lusty scroll]

i mean it did technically work but it was indeed jank

[true palm]

believe you can do it through this under the share run, but idk for sure

[short spire]

sounds pretty convenient if it actually worked properly ngl, not having to manually copy the igt and rta times

[true palm]

regardless its easier to just do it on the site

it'd be convenient if it worked

[royal whale]

my first ever speedrun

it was an any% nmg

if i didnt die a bilion times to bosses that time could have been like 2hours and 30 mins

[strong vessel]

Same, I had to turn the graphics settings down the literal minimum to play without lag

But whatever I can do to run windows ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[royal whale]

how fast you have to beat the game to get speedrunner role?

sub 1 hour or something?

[digital jewel]

there isn't a maximum time

[royal whale]

you just do many attempts?

[digital jewel]

what do you mean?

[leaden python]

you just submit a valid verifiable run according to the speedrun.com rules and you get the role

[royal whale]

so i record the run?

[leaden python]

the rules don't specify minimum required time to get

[verbal stag]

the run needs to be recorded yes

[royal whale]

ok

[leaden python]

Read pinned messages pls, they have all the information you need

[royal whale]

ok thanks

[elfin vortex]

Ah the pains of being a mac owner who likes to speedrun. ngl buying a mac was my biggest mistake ever but thats kinda offtopic...

[torpid grove]

Hi, i didnt have any problems before downpatching but after i downpatched the goam room is for some reason out of sync anyone know why or a solution?

[digital jewel]

what do you mean out of sync?

[grizzled maple]

Do you have particularly long loads on the downpatched version? Load length is known to mess with cycles

If thats it theres not much you can do. Your best option is to look at the switch board and see how console has to do it. You basically have to pogo the middle goam because you'll never make it past in time.

[torpid grove]

I have a video can i share it?

Also the aspid double spike kill seems to not work i never got it on the downpatch

I could do double spike kill on the current patch easily

Downpatched version 1.2.2.1 mods installed debug mod

[frigid rapids]

double spike kill was made trivial on current patch, but it's way tighter on 1221

[digital jewel]

double spike kill and goam room are both a little different on 1221

the goam room should actually be easier though, to get the fast cycle

do you do that goam room movement on current patch?

and it works out?

I don't think that movement would work for me on current patch

anyway this is the movement on 1221

you can line the movement up by doing a small jump when you touch the piece of grass right before the goams, then buffer another jump when you land

[tepid eagle]

when uploading a video for a run to speedrun.com, is it okay to use a twitch recording of it?

[grizzled maple]

Just so long as its a highlight and not a raw vod since those expire

[tepid eagle]

thanks!

[torpid grove]

fireborn does the same movement he holds jump but i'll try yours too. And i did this groam movement on current patch and it worked i dont know if it's my frames or not that's causing it because i feel drops

[grizzled maple]

If it means anything the video you posted does look like the switch cycle. I recommend watching that and anticipating to need to pogo the middle one

[torpid grove]

I just realized my analog stick might be broken it worked with dpad im both happy and sad right now sorry for the trouble

[winter star]

excuse me professional speedrunners, do u have any stratigies on beating watcher knights?

[torpid grove]

have you beaten them on radiant?

[hearty adder]

Is this for speedrunning the game? or just watcher knights in general?

because if it's the latter

?srpsa

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[valid kraken]

Hi so I want to get into Any% NMG runs but I don't know where to begin. Where can I get started?

[verbal stag]

fireb0rn's tutorial playlist on yt is very helpful and in depth

[thorny sable]

can you skip out of the void heart abyss climb using dream gate? Does it permanently skip that animation sequence?

[true palm]

if you dont finish the climb you dont get voidheart (major glitches excluded) , but idk if dreamgating specifically works

[thorny sable]

don't you get voidheart before the climb?

[true palm]

i believe the actual save for voidheart occurs after but i could be mistaken

the fact that true ending goes through voidheart climb and they have dgate is a testament to its necessity

i believe nmms still does the climb but with no clip

ik the actual voidheart animation sequence occurs after the climb

you can obviously dgate right after the climb is done or quit out

[unkempt goblet]

Poggues first any% run

Cp

[unkempt goblet]

Next run got a pb

[final plume]

is 25min claw (in game time) good?

[snow dome]

Check against other runs at the times you're aiming for and see what times they're getting.

[elfin vortex]

Claw is normally picked up at 9-14m i think so u may want to work on ur early game abit.

[final plume]

yeah, im not doing fireball or explosion skip...

im gonna try them out now

[elfin vortex]

Even without them u should def be able to get a sub 20 claw tho

U may be taking hits or doing bosses slowly so record urself and see where ur messing up

[final plume]

yea, thanks

[subtle glade]

Also those skips are not really that hard, if you practise them for a bit you should be able to get them

It's easier than many people think

[snow dome]

The only skip I would say is "required" is the skip where you see hornet on the ledge and she runs away. If you can't get the Fireball skip there, you should learn the squit skip instead. It saves minutes of time.

Going around at E-Pogo isn't a huge deal. It's a time loss, for sure, but I also CBA learning current patch epogo to bed honest

[subtle glade]

Squit pogo is easier but loses 8 seconds (I think, not sure about the timing) to fireball skip

[snow dome]

If you're losing 10m within the first three splits, I don't think an 8s time save is a big deal

Start with easy strats and work your way up. So long as your route is generally correct, you're making progress.

[subtle glade]

Btw @final plume are you playing cp or 1.2.2.1? I think you didn't specify

[final plume]

cp, im playing on the switch

[mossy sapphire]

Do somebody knows how much time the explosion pogo skip saves ?

To know if i should try to learn it

[leaden python]

25-30 if I recall correctly

or 35-40 🥴

[snow dome]

I always say 40 for both this and QGA Vs Deepnest

[leaden python]

yeah I think it's fair assumption especially considering that mantis pogo was way more labbed out when you go from above

I wouldn't be surprised if the difference is sub 30 vs optimized around-movement, but I think the last instance of optimized around movement was top 112 runs from like a year ago

[snow dome]

I think if you're at the stage where you're asking if you should go round or not, you aren't doing the alternate route in 25s

[leaden python]

yeah for sure

[snow dome]

Like, I think it takes me about that, because my movement is actually quite good, but I refuse to do segmented practice at this point. 👀

But normal people

[normal aspen]

prob 25 optimally

but it also makes mantis pogo different and if u have to go aaround there too its easily 40

[leaden python]

I probably won't be able to wing in in 25 I think, I never went around in my life apart from my casual playthrough 🥴

[snow dome]

TBF it makes mantis Pogo a lot easier to get

Like you see in Fireborn's tutorial he talks about heading right to grab the extra mantis; that's done by default

[mossy sapphire]

Yeah I'll keep doing the deviation

I should practice the acid lake skip

[snow dome]

If you ever run 1221, I suggest learning epogo

[mossy sapphire]

But thats impossible

[snow dome]

I literally wing it every time and get it a good 90%

I did a run where I did Deepnest instead of QGA recently and cut something like 13m off my time

The Queen's Gardens section is also way, way harder than the Deepnest section, imo

[mossy sapphire]

Yeah, theres the arena especially

I'll keep doing my current route

But i abdolutely need to practice the bosses

They take me so much time

[plush light]

whats 112% APB

[deep kernel]

A run where you get 112% completion (all charms, skills, etc.) and also are required to defeat all bosses (also GPZ) and get the Embrace the Void ending (Pantheon 5 ending) APB stands for all pantheon bosses

[quiet saddle]

Idk if you got an answer but, speed run or not, this will give you a decent idea of how to fight them

https://youtu.be/XlmjHynpIjc

If you don't care about time, don't worry about going fast. Just pay attention to their attacks and your spacing

[subtle glade]

Is there a mod that makes the game go in slow motion?

I want to practise trinomial drop and I think it will be easier if I can get to know the movements in slowmo first

[twin swallow]

debug mod allows you to change the timescale (faster or slower) which should achieve what you want

[digital jewel]

timescale resets when you take damage so it is a bit annoying to use

[subtle glade]

Thanks, I didn't know debug could do that

[mossy sapphire]

watcher knights is by far the hardest boss in any% speedrun

and unfair

[normal aspen]

[mossy sapphire]

Thats the only true difficulty spike

Thk is easier

[snow dome]

I think on CP they're both pretty hard

On 1221 Watchers is definitely harder

[subtle glade]

How much time does trinomial save over the beginner strat? I'm about to give up

I always get hit by this jelly or hard landing there

[digital jewel]

try to do smaller movements. you're aiming for this kind of line, so either hitting the jelly or getting a hard fall there means you're overshooting to the left quite a lot

[subtle glade]

Wait, on the top platform you go from the right?

I always tried to do if from the left, I'll try that out

[digital jewel]

actually you're right

still you want to hang close to the left side of that top platform, so hitting the jelly or getting hardfall means you're overcompensating

https://youtu.be/UM8pVAMqzrg?list=PLfkLKB8O1Ff0-AApWYqqgFjMcMMVaW_JH&t=291

after passing just left of that top platform you don't move at all until you start moving right after the bottom platform

there's no need to keep moving left

[subtle glade]

Alright thanks

That works, I always kept going left a bit more and I guess that's what caused me to get hit/get a hard drop

[mossy sapphire]

Wk are harder on 1221 than on current patch ?

[haughty fossil]

no but thk is harder on cp than 1221

unless you do spore shroom route 😉

[mossy sapphire]

yeah i saw that infection pillars deals 2dmg on cp

[haughty fossil]

thk is also much faster on cp

i'd call the 2 equivalent between thk and wk on cp

[mossy sapphire]

thk is so slow on 1221

especially compared to pv

[royal whale]

do i need to be in the current patch for a run to be accepted?

because i dosent say anyhting about version

[mossy sapphire]

there is no version requirement

it depends on which speedrun you want to do

for any% the best patch is 1.2.2.1

[hardy crown]

Some runs are only allowed and/or possible on certain patches.

[royal whale]

im doing any% NMG

[mossy sapphire]

yeah get 1221

it allow lever skips

which are a rly good time save

inventory drops

and some other things i dont know about

[haughty fossil]

1221 and cp are compared separately

so timesave/timeloss are irrelevant, its about what you prefer

[subtle glade]

I'm currently learning uumuu, and I've run into a problem

Wait, my video file is too big give me a sec

Ok, https://youtu.be/QfADze7XXBM when attacking uumuu it seems to get out of the platform quicker than when I watch speedrunners doing it, so it's hard to hit her with the nail swings

What could I be doing wrong?

[royal whale]

OMG MY SECOND EVER SPEEDRUN

[mossy sapphire]

gg

rly good time

[haughty fossil]

current patch?

[subtle glade]

1.2.2.1

[haughty fossil]

oh I will not pretend to know 100% then, but to me looks like the damage cycle is too slow and uumuu is just drifting too far over time

[subtle glade]

I know, that's the problem, I mean in the nail swings before that I shouldn't have to jump off the platform to hit it

[subtle glade]

That's likely

[haughty fossil]

I know people do the fireballs in a different order depending on preference, you may want to try messing around to find something that works for yoy

[digital jewel]

you can walk into uumuu a little bit the boss becomes vulnerable so you can be inside it because of your iframes

this will let you start the damage cycle as close as possible to the boss

it also doesn't look like you're nail cancelling your fireballs

you can nail and immediately cast fireball and the recovery from the nail hit will be completely skipped

practice it a little with infinite soul just trying to time your fireball as close to your nail as you can

also another major part is casting the initial fireball as soon as you can after the boss becomes vulnerable

but it looks like you have that down well already

basically the cycle is just tight to do, but you look like you're doing alright to begin with

a bit more practice and you should be able to get the full damage cycle in

[subtle glade]

This was the trick, thanks

Sorry for the ping

[knotty vigil]

when i go onto hollow knight, i cant see live split

is there a way to for me to see it while i play

[subtle glade]

Is your hollow knight from steam?

[knotty vigil]

yeah

[subtle glade]

In the game properties type "-popupwindow" in the launch options and in the hk in game settings change it to windowed

[knotty vigil]

thanks

[subtle glade]

Livesplit doesn't normally display over fullscreen apps

So you need hk to be windowed, and the "-popupwindow" makes it extend to fit the screen, thus borderless fullscreen

[knotty vigil]

ive done it now thanks again

i have another problem

i downpatched my game to 1.2.2.1 and when i load a new save file its just a black screen

[subtle glade]

When you're making a new file? Only thing I could think of is when you load the save that's in godhome, idk why it would blackscreen on a new save

[knotty vigil]

yeah, i have a savefile thats in godhome

but im not loading that

[subtle glade]

Then it shouldn't be a problem

Idk, skipping cutscenes takes quite a while so it could be that

[knotty vigil]

oh ok

ill watch the cutscene and see if it still happens

[subtle glade]

There are 3 cutscenes each takes like 5 secs to skip

[knotty vigil]

ok wtf

i just started a different savefile and everything is purple boxes

[digital jewel]

I don't think you fully downloaded the game

[knotty vigil]

ok ill redownload it

[knotty vigil]

its working now thanks

[elfin vortex]

Is there a list of hk speedrun tech and strats that I can read up on anywhere?

[hearty adder]

since that's usually route-specific those are usually available in their respective cat's pins and such, but i don't think there's a comprehensive guide of all different strats for different things independent of routing

[elfin vortex]

I dont necessarily need a guide for the strats just need to have a list of them but if thats the case then a list of all strats probs doesnt exist

[hearty adder]

there was some talk about whether a resource like that was deemed necessary or wanted by the community at large recently

it seems to be something that's very asked for by newcomers, but not by more experienced people, as far as I've seen

it'd probably require a lot of work given the large variety of options

i think however there's something like that for rando, but i'm not a rando person so i can't say for sure

[uneven pike]

did you pirate the game or something?

[hearty adder]

that's something that happens when the downpatching isn't completed

no need to throw around accusations

[knotty vigil]

no lol i downpatched it

[uneven pike]

oh it was a downpatching issue

[elfin vortex]

yh it would probs not be worth making one. Asking cuz of the 112 guide me and glowingicefire are making and It would be nice to see all strats so I dont forget to add one that idk of

[uneven pike]

sorry theres this whole meme that centralizes around hollow knight players hating people who pirate the game

[ionic cargo]

i mean it is illegal

[hearty adder]

better to not dwell on it, it was a baseless accusation and not really related to the conversation that had already ended and been resolved

[digital jewel]

a full list of all strats would be difficult to categorise and navigate

I'm sure if you post your 112% guide then more knowledgeable people can chime in with extra info

[ebon nexus]

How can I make Livesplit be upon Hollow knight while im playing?

[hearty adder]

if you're launching the game from steam, follow this

if you're launching it from the exe/shortcut from the exe, you can also add that in the shortcut's properties

then you can press alt+enter in-game to toggle between fullscreen and windowed, which should let you have livesplit on top of the game

also make sure to tick "always on top" on your livesplit layout

[ebon nexus]

tks

Now its working

[dusk portal]

By doing some Alt+Tab weird magic, I sometimes can have Livesplit on top of Full Screen HK

[lusty scroll]

for me it only works if i boot livesplit once ive started fullscreen hk, then if i alt tab its gone again

[royal whale]

does anybody know how much geo the chest after the watcher knights give?

[strong vessel]

655

[royal whale]

including the hallownest seal?

[sturdy glade]

no just the chest is 655

[digital jewel]

hallownest seals sell for 450

[royal whale]

ok thanks

[sturdy glade]

how bad is hive in 37 minutes

pretty bad or extremely bad

[hearty adder]

what category are you talking about?

if you're just starting out it's best to compare yourself to your own improvement than with people with more experience, to be honest; you'll quickly burn out if you compare yourself to people who are more experienced than you

a good time is a time that you're proud of

[sturdy glade]

i cancelled a hiveblood% after a few bad deaths and a generally bad time

[hearty adder]

however, if what you're seeking is just comparing yourself to others, you can check people's runs on the leaderboards

keep in mind though that people usually grind new meme categories even before they're officially on the leaderboards

surviving in the hive is largely dependant not just on the bees' spawns, but also on what route you're using to move; most people move around the hive in the same way, but there are some more safe strats to go for if your goal is to just survive

[pliant lagoon]

may I ask for the fb skip, should I spam fb or I need to find the rhythm

[hearty adder]

You need to practice the rhythm of it

remember to use quick cast button instead of focus button

[pliant lagoon]

yeah i do aware of quick cast

[verbal stag]

mashing works for some people too, its mostly up to you

[pliant lagoon]

when i tried infinite soul

even if I smash my keyboard as hard as I can

i felt like my drop is almost 45 degree

😩

[hearty adder]

if you watch people who do it with an input display on, you can kinda get the rhythm of it from them

I think fireb0rn's any% guide has an input display

but just watching anyone's runs who do that skip and have an input display should be helpful

[stuck raptor]

a good way to practice too is to use infinite soul and try to make it across the whole room without losing any height.

will get the rhythm down very quick

[pliant lagoon]

Yeah I was watching fire's video

I saw he barely dropped in his demonstration

[coarse mountain]

Make sure you aren't holding any directions while you're firing

That messed me up for a while

[pliant lagoon]

you know what I was starting to doubt my keyboard is the problem to prevent me to chain fb ;D

i got the most of the bosses and the tricks quite consistent, but the fb skip is impossible for me

[hearty adder]

are you using socd cleaner? it's very recommended if you're playing on keyboard

[pliant lagoon]

i felt qga is much easier than fb skip 😭

what is that

[hearty adder]

#resources message

helps with directional keyboard inputs, because the game's own handling of them is pretty 🥴

won't help with the actual timing of fireballs, but will help with the timing of the turnaround and such

when it comes to the timing of the fireballs themselves, then yeah what Mickely already said is very helpful

[pliant lagoon]

Alright, I will look it up.

Thank you all for the help though

i am really appreciated

[subtle glade]

Help, I still can't do it

I think I got it like maybe 3 times randomly, but I have no idea what I did differently

[lusty scroll]

i think you are meant to damage boost at the start as uumuu pops so you're closer

[digital jewel]

you're still not getting the nail cancels

[subtle glade]

I have no idea how those work, I've been trying to do them, even with timescale, can't get them

[digital jewel]

https://youtu.be/Jxcxlz1qgok?t=1772

this run has input display

[subtle glade]

You can see on my inputs that I'm spamming RB right after pressing X, I don't know how you nail cancel

[digital jewel]

have you only tried it with slowed timescale? that might not be helping things

I've never tested strats with it personally because timing is so important

[elfin vortex]

please dont spam quick cast. Mashing qc nearly always ends up having more time inbetween vs's than when you fire them rythmically. As mickey said give urself infinite soul and just try to move across a room (in the air ofc) only using vs's while losing as little height as possible

[subtle glade]

Alright, I'll try the nail cancels, I think I get more or less how to do it

[twin swallow]

some people find mashing more effective and/or comfortable, it's a personal thing

if your rhythm/timing is good it can be as good as or better than single press timing

[subtle glade]

Not counting the one failed one, are those correct nail cancels?

[digital jewel]

yes this looks good