speedrunning

[onyx spade]

nkg% spends half the run overcharmed

[steady lynx]

If any% had to kill FK it'd almost be worth

But still not

[molten aurora]

Oh, it's that much of a difference.

[onyx spade]

fury is very slow to get, equip, and activate

[molten aurora]

Easy fix to that, fury WK and THK

[onyx spade]

it's not even much damage though

[steady lynx]

Fury makes cp 2 cycle Uumuu free

[onyx spade]

like vs with shamans does so much more in those fights

2 cycle is already free

[steady lynx]

Freeer

[molten aurora]

Fury watcher knights is probably useless, but I imagine THK would get a decent amount of benefit.

[limpid ruin]

fury saves 5s on hornet fight itself, it takes 30ish sec to pick up, and some to equip

[molten aurora]

Although, then no scream skip.

Yeah, fury is just useless

[steady lynx]

Equipment is the big issue because you either have to wait in dirtmouth or go into the stag station

[onyx spade]

scream skipping with fury

[molten aurora]

I mean, scream skip skip, but I don't see that happening with any% gear, even with fury.

[steady lynx]

It's mainly used in 1xx since you have to get it anyway

[onyx spade]

and ACN 🙂

[steady lynx]

Also spelless and Godhome Ending

Emilitia All Skills cp route could almost use it

[limpid ruin]

after mound is the least out of the way

[normal aspen]

steponme route

[limpid ruin]

if not that, then stag station by far on 1221 at least. Dirtmouth text lasts foreeeeeveeeeeeeeeeeeer

[steady lynx]

But no FK Fury then so even more useless

[limpid ruin]

i mean when you skip fk anyway, fury would save i think 5 ish hits, which would equal to 2-3s

thats more than you lose by equipping in the stag station

wait

words

[steady lynx]

Yeah, it's just kinda not worth it

[limpid ruin]

and then for wk it would likely save in the region of 5-10s?

maybe?

that is assuming youre an absolute god, ofc

[steady lynx]

That'd be hitless wk

[limpid ruin]

and for thk it was 5-15s as well, if i remember labbing from some months back properly

[steady lynx]

So it'd save like ten seconds in exchange for basically having to run hitless

[limpid ruin]

so if you do fury optimally based on that youd save what, like 5s across the entire run?

[molten aurora]

Just don't get hit though, I saw fireborn do it, it can't be that hard

[steady lynx]

Wouldn't you have to overcharm shaman as well?

That takes forever

[limpid ruin]

skip shaman, ofc 😤

[molten aurora]

Ignore the garbage fight, but after swapping back to all skills equipment, I freeze on staggers for what seems like a REALLY long time, is this weird?

[onyx spade]

1221

[short spire]

see if it still happens if you restart the game

[molten aurora]

That should have seemed obvious, thanks ax

Also, congrats on the all skills WR.

[short spire]

[frank obsidian]

yeah, congrats!

[warm silo]

my consistency for the aspid arena is poop but it feels so great when i get the spike right

[frank obsidian]

same

[molten aurora]

I finally stopped being lazy and swapped to chinese, I feel like a real gamer now, I need to mash text 10x less

[dreamy bough]

this is way slower than expected for 1221 tbh

[molten aurora]

Yeah, after restarting my game it's waaaaaay better.

[strong vessel]

Switch to French, the slowest language in the game

[grizzled maple]

That seems like it could be the registry thing. Try yeeting the entire folder

[formal quiver]

<@&284848710960021504> could i get the speedrunner role? I have a verified run in any% nmg

[molten aurora]

If you can link the run that makes it easier.

[formal quiver]

oh woops lol that would make sense

[formal quiver]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/zp3j55nm

[molten aurora]

Grats on the blue name

[formal quiver]

ty

[molten aurora]

Also, nice run.

[knotty vigil]

zoom zoom
||whoosh||

[formal quiver]

lmao literally my next run was a new pb but i didnt record it

[vocal dove]

the radiance is actually trying to kill you 😳

[stiff kindle]

I plan on starting running any% NMG but couldn't find the differences between 1.2.2.1 and CP. Where could I find it?

[hot latch]

Hey, i've been practicing these bois for a while now and i'm still just scraping past them, i was wondering if anyone could give me any tips on what i'm doing wrong, (thanks in advance)

[molten aurora]

Imagine choking a free sub hour

But also, them endgame gains 👀

[knotty vigil]

for any% the big changes are: inventory drops are changed to be frame perfect and most of them are not worth it, lever skips were removed, fireballs now disappear offscreen (preventing the baldur instakill glitch and changing the wk and thk fights slightly), epogo is changed to be much more difficult, hornet takes 1 more hit to stagger, uumuu takes more knockback, and maybe a few other things I'm forgetting

the route is still basically the same, it's just individual rooms that you do differently

[molten aurora]

The performance and overall jank is MUCH worse on 1221.

So if you have a potato pc, you might be best sticking with CP.

[digital jewel]

you're always getting hit by trying to go over them during the bounce attack

you need to dash under that or wait it out

[hot latch]

Thank you! i'll try that out

[vital geyser]

running any%, theres a skip after Uumuu called Queens Garden Acid skip. im sure youve seen it in runs. its quite difficult and theres an alternate route going into fungal which is (i think) 30 seconds slower. in CP, we pick up spore shroom on this route because THK has a bug where it gets melted by spore shroom. Also, THK is faster, gruz mother gruz babies dont drop geo (but thats not actually important), and you can't skip dreamer cut scenes.

[hot latch]

I'm doing quite a bit better now, thank you!!

[digital jewel]

nice

good job

[true palm]

theres a long list of small differences, recommend just watching runs, but very notable ones is no instabaldur kill (on 1221 you can kill the baldur off screen with a single fireball), spire lever skip (you can hit a lever through a wall in city, saving 40s), Uumuu doesnt get stuck in platforms (so theres a different setup), explosion pogo is a lot harder (you cant pogo the actual explosion, so you have to make it across in one pogo instead of two, which is needed to get into mantis), and if you opt into doing QGA and queens gardens, theres no hazard warp (where you drop into thorns and teleport to a lever)

[elfin vortex]

If u have a good pc I personally would say run 1.2.2.1 just cuz of the fact u can menue drop and the spire lever skip and hey.... its the most popular cat. If ur pc wont run 1.2.2.1 well then run cp. Honestly they arent too different just that one of them is a cheater patch

[hearty stone]

small question regarding the ancestral mound entrance, is it faster to hit the lever that brings you back and then go up to get VS and come down without having to wait?

[haughty fossil]

no since you have to walk to it first then walk back

faster to just hold left and slash on the way out, optimally you barely even catch the door anyway

[elfin vortex]

Probs after is quicker cuz u only wait like 1s

Or less

[hearty stone]

okay, thanks.

[jaunty anchor]

hey everyone! I am new to speedrunning and love HK and have been watching fireb0rn for years and am finally going to attempt to sr current patch but I have no clue how to practice the run. Does anyone have any tips or should I just jump in with the knowledge I have from watching videos and reading guides?

[stiff delta]

Theres a lot of helpful information in the pins

Otherwise its up to what you wanna do, most people start out by watching guides and doing some practice

[uneven pike]

Also epogo is sick as f*ck on cp

[stiff delta]

Mathulu has a good tutorial on the new comfypogo

[granite field]

Be sure to train bosses, they rely mostly on RNG so practicing is recommended. If you're on PC, DebugMod allows savestates

if you have a hard time fighting watchers, going for a nail upgrade is totally fine

[elfin vortex]

Practise using debug mod

And also dont reset too much

[true palm]

as a rule of thumb, you'll find lots of resources on speedrun.com and in the pinned comments, some things you'll want to pick up are Debug Mod, Livesplit, a form of screen recording software (OBS Studio is standard), and SOCD cleaner if you are on keyboard ( found in #resources )

Speedrunning on console is very different setup and procedures so if you're interested in getting started with that let us know.

As for Current Patch, would stray away from All Skills, and focus on Any% NMG, focus on learning the route and getting key skips/bosses, get a baseline run, and then work from there

[stiff delta]

Would stray away from all skills anyway

Maybe i just dislike the category because my feed is oversaturated with it

[true palm]

All Skills is a great beginner category for 1221, but is pretty saturated due to the tourney, and you'll see a lot of mixed feelings on the category.

[elfin vortex]

U probs want to give any% a go. Great gateway to other runs, is fun and relatively short, and has only 1 major difficult (unavoidable) part

[true palm]

The major reason you see people run all skills is Watcher Knights, which you can expect to be a roadblock

[elfin vortex]

Also its the most popular cat so u may find more rescources for it

[elfin vortex]

Isnt all skills like an hour and a half long?

[true palm]

On current patch, theres two routes, Sporeshroom and QGA for Any%, the former being easier, very niche, and about 10s slower to comsob, the latter being much harder, translatable to 1221, and most likely going to be slower for your first run

[elfin vortex]

If so it may be offputting to new runners

[true palm]

cp all skills for a first run is about an hour and a half in game time, records like 50 minutes

its actually a lot faster to learn

you can learn spike tunnel, all the acid skips, and boss fights in the time it takes to learn qga

[dull lion]

yeah all skills is much easier to complete your first runs on than any%

[jaunty anchor]

Thank you guys so much for all of this, I do plan on doing any% I forgot to say that in my initial message. I will download Debug, I didn't realize it was so helpful

[dull lion]

if you go with any% expect to spend several hours practicing watcher knights before you complete your first run becaus ethe fight is that difficult. Don't get discouraged though everybody struggles with it at first

[jaunty anchor]

I already have livesplit set up for any% with all the WR splits for CP

[elfin vortex]

Remember to get rid off debug when recording ur run and refer to fireb0rns setup and any% guide

[elfin vortex]

You did clear times right?

[jaunty anchor]

haha yeah when I first did my HK playthrough years ago I got so tilted cause it was so hard but after a few more casual runs I can do it pretty well just not as good as speedrunners

[true palm]

i wouldnt compare to those splits, since that run is pretty all over the place, if you want to compare to great times compare to comsob (which is the best possible time done thus far)

[jaunty anchor]

I am not sure actually, I just copied the times off of the final split for WR video

oh okay where do you find that

[elfin vortex]

Clear them. Its better to set a time for you to try and beat

[jaunty anchor]

okay so just pb times?

[true palm]

I mean you can compare to whatever you want

[elfin vortex]

But for a beginner comparing against wr I wouldnt recommend

[true palm]

i mean if you go in with the expectation you're not going to instantly beat it you're fine

seeing how much time you're losing is nice for understanding

[jaunty anchor]

I get that, I just wanted to see how much I could improve (obv a lot since im brand new to sr but it makes sens)

[true palm]

which is the entire point of splits

[knotty vigil]

Finally I have achieved a decent time for myself in the first pantheon:

10:03

[jagged vault]

i would personally recommend doing one full run then comparing against PB

[jaunty anchor]

I think my first panth was like 16:37

alright ill set that up

[jagged vault]

that first run you just push yourself through, and that way you also get to know what you need to work on the most

[jaunty anchor]

there is a way to save setting though right?

[elfin vortex]

Its fun to try beat that PB to and motivating

[knotty vigil]

First: 17:11

[jagged vault]

then practice the hardest bits, do another run

rinse and repeat

[jaunty anchor]

oh yeah disregard that last message

[elfin vortex]

Imo for first run focus on remembering the route and dont reset cuz its a bad habit. Dw about deaths either cuz its a first run

[jaunty anchor]

anyway I have to go to work, thank you all again so much, I'll be on tonight to hopefully do some practice and maybe a run. I will let you all know how it goes

[simple goblet]

Am I aloud to post a google slide link because I have created an Isma's tear route(though it only has lines right now)

[jagged vault]

for what category?

if you're referring to any% NMG there is already an ismas route that has been routed out to be slower than the current optimal route

[simple goblet]

ye if it already exists its cool I just wanted to see how mine would compare to the actual thing

[jagged vault]

but yeah, i don't see much problem with sharing it here i guess

to answer your first question

[simple goblet]

where do I find the already routed route

[wheat furnace]

Is there some sort of database for speedrunning skips and stuff?

[dark blaze]

Rando might have that stuff, theres a wiki being worked on i think? Im not too sure

[kind flume]

You can also search in #resources and #strats for specific skips and stuff

[wheat furnace]

Ok, thanks

[fallen forum]

if theres something specific you're looking for like 90% of the time if i just ctrl f for it in this server, im able to find what im looking for tbh

[dusty shell]

What is the easiest category to speedrun?

[elfin vortex]

kp lol if u want to consider that a cat

[verbal stag]

kp ng+ slow

[limpid dust]

real cat either any% or all skill

(by real I mean full game)

[elfin vortex]

4ms from what I hear is pretty ez

Not full game but more official than kp lol

[true palm]

if you want a short category to run, one that is pretty niche is aluba% All Glitches. No special downpatching or anything. Uses a couple neat glitches. Otherwise 4ms is pretty standard.

for full game, All Skills on patch 1.2.2.1 is the easiest to learn, Any% is the easiest on Current Patch.

[vague jolt]

Why do you think any% is easier than AS on cp?

[true palm]

the routes confusing and varies, less resources

its definitely easier to execute than any%, but in terms of time its going to take more dedication

[digital jewel]

all skills cp does sanctum which is really rough

whereas any% cp gets to skip qga for very little timeloss because of spore shroom

[vague jolt]

IMO any% watchers is harder than anything in any all skills route

[true palm]

any% watchers on cp is a little better do to minimal off screen attacks

[vague jolt]

But also I am bad

[hallow orchid]

I would agree that any% watchers is harder than anything in AS

[true palm]

regardless there isnt a full game category where you watch a run at x2 speed at youtube, say "Yah i got it" and then just instantly run it

[dry sluice]

idk I think most people figure out any% ag on sight

[true palm]

i mean you still need to downpatch, which that would take longer than just learning 4ms

[elfin vortex]

Any's route is quick to pick up and u can memorise it in a sitting but twk and qga are pretty rough so yh

[maiden bane]

I would strongly disagree that Any% Watchers is harder than anything in AS

I would in fact say Any% Watchers is easier than any single skip in AS

[true palm]

it varies from person to person

but many people run all skills to avoid any% watchers

just depends

[vague jolt]

Eric says hi

[maiden bane]

absolutely impossible ai

I have, no joke, died to Any% Watchers fewer times than I have failed to manipulate that Squit

[vague jolt]

Glitch too stronk

[topaz moat]

I was practicing epogo and I was having trouble getting it consistently.... so i decided to try timing my jump way earlier to see what it looked like when I was too early and now I can get it every time

feels bad when you practice something trying to get it on the tightest possible timing when theres a wayyy easier way lol

[elfin vortex]

Yup

[leaden phoenix]

I wanna upload my speedrun video but, what this means?

[stiff delta]

Optional

[stark birch]

iirc splits i/o is a web app that lets you upload split times to src? You can just leave that blank few people have ever used it

[stiff delta]

If you use(d) livesplit then just ignore it

[leaden phoenix]

okay, thanks

[analog monolith]

i just use it bc it's cool to have a link to splits c:

[haughty fossil]

i used to use splits.io when they gave premium features out for free that actually made it like useful
now not so much since it doesn't even tell me useful info i don't already know intuitively

[stray kestrel]

didnt someone make their own script that would analyze your splits files for you here?

[haughty fossil]

yeah slaurent made lss-tools i believe its on github?

https://github.com/slaurent22/lss-tools

[leaden phoenix]

btw, do anyone knows a place that i can find arrow keys overlay for obs?

[haughty fossil]

it is!

[leaden phoenix]

I wanna use it on my speedrun videos tho

[haughty fossil]

nohboard is the keyboard input display most people use

[hearty adder]

there's also the input overlay plugin for obs but you'd have to either make your own custom overlay or have someone give you theirs, since the preset layouts aren't really fit for hollow knight

[leaden phoenix]

yeah I know, I ask for this problem tho

[leaden phoenix]

I can find it like writing nohboard right?

[haughty fossil]

yeah

[frank obsidian]

Al2ba% is a super long cat

[jagged vault]

Not really tbh

I’d guess an hour or so?

[hearty adder]

If you want a long meme cat, may I offer you P5 Boss Order

[jagged vault]

A bit less prolly

[strong vessel]

Al2ba% is like 23 minutes

[jagged vault]

You just rush shade cloak then qg right?

[strong vessel]

Shade soul

You can hit it from the other side

[jagged vault]

Oh wow really?

[strong vessel]

Yep

[jagged vault]

Neat haha

[sage bough]

Is their anyway to do explosion pogo on current patch without dash?

[strong vessel]

Does vsync epogo work?

[haughty fossil]

yes but it's fairly precise and uses 3 fireballs

you need vsync too

[frank obsidian]

two-three hrs*

[haughty fossil]

al2ba is not 2-3 hours

[sage bough]

Thanks.

[frank obsidian]

You realize you are talking to ME, right?

[hallow orchid]

there's a 1fb vsync dashless epogo jamie

[steady lynx]

Al2ba longer than 106%

[hearty adder]

whenever a category is described as long/short/etc it's always in terms of what the top times are

[haughty fossil]

on 1221 al2ba is all skills start to get dash slash + shade soul, then get back to qg somehow and lever skip into qg through mound entrance, then shade soul through the wall after doing the worst parts of qg 🙂

[frank obsidian]

oh

[haughty fossil]

on cp its a little more involved because no lever skips

requiring cheart

[hallow orchid]

on cp it's any% but you have to do qga and 2 petra arenas

[steady lynx]

fun

[frank obsidian]

QGA

[hallow orchid]

I guess you could do deepnest instead and skip one petra arena

probably would lose ~a minute

at worst

[maiden bane]

I think my pb does deepnest route

[haughty fossil]

skipping the easiest arena

[maiden bane]

But I only ran it for like a day

[haughty fossil]

does al2ba geo route allow for shaman?

[hallow orchid]

iirc no

[haughty fossil]

is al2ba cp even optimised yet

[strong vessel]

No

Well, yes

[maiden bane]

I believe it's optimal to not (but my pb does)

[strong vessel]

Actually

[hallow orchid]

I remember being annoyed that I didn't have shaman

[strong vessel]

Just do All Skills routing

Wait

Nvm

I forgot that we routed gp stag in there

[haughty fossil]

"just do all skills routing" doesn't work for cp im afraid

considering there's like 15 minutes of different routing for as cp, with wildly differing geo sources

[strong vessel]

You should run on 1221 then

I hate 1221 but lever skips are amazing

[true palm]

1221 is an acquired taste

once you know where all the stupid stuff is and how it feels, its pretty good

[elfin vortex]

1221 is relaxing to play on (for me) after a while of cp just cuz of menue dropping lol

[haughty fossil]

this is why rando is the perfect break from cp runs qol inv drops are just... so good...

[true palm]

hitting cp inventory drops feels good (but missing them is meh)

the best drop is the map drop for 1028

[maiden bane]

the secret is that this ratio is backward

take a high-stress break from rando rando with a single speedrun

and then remember that rando is better

[haughty fossil]

true but i've been absent from rando community for too long

[hallow orchid]

Jamie come back

[haughty fossil]

withdrawal symptoms are starting

[hallow orchid]

(I have also been absent too long)

[maiden bane]

both of you come back, let's get the old guard back together

[haughty fossil]

math i need to finish my finals, finish as then do a couple weeks of meme runs

then we can return to rando rando

(one of those meme runs being any% cp)

[hallow orchid]

Rando rando revival in the summer?

[uneven scarab]

not to mention losing to me in grands for all skills Jamie

[haughty fossil]

oh yeah, it's all coming together

ohko

i haven't opened the game in a week and at this point im not sure i'm gonna be able to until exams are over lol

[uneven scarab]

I'm coming for that chocci bar

but yeah, tbh I'm in the same predicament as you

Prolly the only time I'm opening hk this week for more than 30min is for the showcase race with Jodii

[elfin vortex]

Are controller inputs worth showing on vid demos of strats in the 112 guide me and glowingicefire are working on or no

[hallow orchid]

I would say yes for some of them. E.g. the ismas skips it's important what you're holding, and in dark rooms it can help a lot too

[hearty adder]

Yeah, I think for stuff that requires precision/low vision it's a good idea

[elfin vortex]

Yup def the dark rooms. Main pain is that i think we need to redo (i think) all of monstahs strat demos from the copy of the old guide he gave us but if it benefits beginners more its worth it

[strong vessel]

Yeah, that makes sense

[knotty vigil]

What are all the requirements to finish the all skills category?

[jagged vault]

the category requirements are listed on the leaderboard page

[digital jewel]

spells, movement abilities and nail arts

[knotty vigil]

Alright thanks

[strong vessel]

Is there anywhere I can download an HK layout for nohboard?

[elfin vortex]

Whats nohboard?

[strong vessel]

A keyboard overlay app

[elfin vortex]

Surely you can select which keys to display?

Or is that not an option

[strong vessel]

Not really

Not that I can find at least

[elfin vortex]

Looked at a vid (for nohboard) and it seems u right click, press start editing and then u can choose to delete keys

[strong vessel]

Yeah that's what I'm doing right now

It's kind of tedious

But I guess it works

[small grail]

hey where can i get the speedrunning mod? i checked the pinned website but it said it was unavailable

[digital jewel]

speedrunnng mod?

[small grail]

like what tracks your splits

[haughty fossil]

https://livesplit.org

(not a mod fwiw, just a timer application)

[small grail]

okay thats what i ment thank you so much! ill let you know if it works

it works! im gonna figure out how i works now
thank you so much for the help!!

[hearty adder]

Great! There's some info in the pins about how to use livesplit and the autosplitter too

[small grail]

thank you!

[analog monolith]

tfw installed nohboard and manually edited the json in a text editor to get it how i wanted to before realizing graphical editor was a thing

[lusty scroll]

been trying to make myself do a no reset run and i cant do it its really annoying, something small goes wrong and i just want to quit lmao. anyone got any advice on how to keep going through a whole one?

doing current patch nmg rn btw, sum of best is 49 mins

[hearty adder]

When I'm really stuck i usually do no reset runs without livesplit out

Just trying to get all the bad runs out of the system

Plus also works as a warm-up for when you pull up ls

[lusty scroll]

so like dont have livesplit visible?

[hearty adder]

Either that or just not timing it, trying to get through it

[lusty scroll]

got it ty

[hearty adder]

Also comparing against average segments helps imo, much easier to build yourself up with that

[lusty scroll]

oh i didnt know that was a thing, imagine my average has improved an insane amount in the last few days

[digital jewel]

I had the same problem when I first started running and it's just stress for no reason. if it helps, I can tell you that the satisfaction of doing your 2nd run and being able to save time on all these mistakes is such a good feeling. if you can just finish your 1st run even if you hate it, then you get to beat it next time

[lusty scroll]

thanks for all the kinda words aha, yeah ive completed 2 runs and done a bunch of practice (but still suck at uumuu and the stalking devouts) but both of the runs were over 1hr 15 when my sum of best is like 49 and ive felt quite discouraged

aight no livesplit time lets see how this goes!!

[hearty adder]

Sum of best can be really frustrating to look at when you aren't doing well, but it's always important to think that's basically the time you'd get if you had a 100% perfect run, which is very unlikely to happen

[lusty scroll]

yeah so it worked for a bit and then i fell literally 12 times in dream seer platforming and quit the game

i think im just tired lmao ill do better tomorrow

LMAO

[digital jewel]

Good try though. You'll get it next time

[haughty fossil]

falling 12 times in dream nail is the natural progression of a runner required stage of learning

[lusty scroll]

hell yeah sub hour tomorrow i got it

[haughty fossil]

(definitely not projecting how im still bad at dream plats after reads notes 1.3k hours)

[lusty scroll]

glad to know im not alone

yeah i have a stupid number of hours in this game but ive only started running any% for about 40?ish now. shits hard.

[jagged vault]

Game hard

Zoomzoom hard

[stiff delta]

yea

[jaunty anchor]

does anyone know of the best way to practice boss fights? I mean obv godhome but you dont have the same items in the run that you do endgame

[iron drum]

backup savefiles

there are actually some savefiles for ptactice provided by folks in "resources" channel here

[jaunty anchor]

awesome thank you

[stiff delta]

debug mod

if on pc

[iron drum]

oh yeah, debug aswell actually xD

[jaunty anchor]

yeah I was trying that

I wasnt sure if there was another better way

[iron drum]

It seems debug the best I guess

[lusty scroll]

I use debug mod save states, I go through a run as I would and practice each part a few times over if I need it

[warm silo]

yay

now i have to get the 100% within 20 hours but i dont think that will be too hard

[stiff delta]

?srpsa

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[stiff delta]

kinda of a lame duck scenario with people moving but this is still not meant for the cheevos, its meant for competitive speedrunning

[pulsar cobalt]

hi! quick question, im patching to 1.2.2.1, do i need to have the Gods & Nightmares dlc? (going to do True Ending run)

[stiff delta]

You can read the rules of every category on speedrun.com

But for te afaik its just beat the radiance

106 TE does do everything including grimm

Pantheons arent in 106 tho

Dont exist yet

[limpid ruin]

honestly, i just bite into the sour apple (idioms ) and practice individual segments, even on a room-by-room basis, sometimes even smaller segments than that as well. It helped me a ton, especially with parts that killed my runs (in all skills), so like literally everything (mothwing cloak, cpeak, sanctum, every boss, acid skips, you name it)

[limpid ruin]

skips some things like GPZ, kinda weirdly, but I wont even complain tbh bc i hate zote

[subtle glade]

Hollow Knight DLCs are free if that's what you mean

[stiff delta]

Zote is sick

[subtle glade]

Zote is sick as long as it isn't the save file where I try to beat p5

[stiff delta]

Zote is sick 🙂

[subtle glade]

Is this enough for the black egg to open?

Also why is Herrah called Hegemol in the files

Nevermind, found this

[haughty fossil]

don't question it

deep lore reasons clearly

[subtle glade]

Also, wtf even after this the black egg is closed

Maybe quirrel is messing things up?

Alright, I had to set this to true too

[fair island]

you could benchwarp into black egg

[quiet saddle]

Debug mod

Persistent save states are goated

[subtle glade]

Ok, now this is weird, new save file without editing but a lot of benchwarping, and it worked without even talking to quirrel

[haughty fossil]

yeah quirrel can be there too

rando has that very frequently if you don't find monomon lol

[subtle glade]

Also interesting, I killed thk before he had a chance to do the hornet summon scream and the ending was the hollow knight, not sealed siblings

So I guess the trigger is not the void heart but hornet swooping into the black egg

[haughty fossil]

feel free to confirm your suspicion using this helpful diagram 🙂

[subtle glade]

Is this the spaghetti code trigger diagram?

[haughty fossil]

this is thk's ai

if your theory is correct then one of these states is read to figure out what game ending to use

(this is a joke fwiw, if you actually wanted to figure it out you'd decompile and look at the actual game ending code because i doubt (hope?) that's an fsm)

[copper egret]

Can I use the esc skip when I get down to the crossroad for the first time?

[haughty fossil]

you can, it loses time though

[limpid ruin]

i just wish these were easier to view. Like scrolling, zooming, moving boxes to clear clutter and follow lines

[subtle glade]

You can but I think pausing loses more time than you gain from early control

[copper egret]

Alright

I will do the test on tas

[haughty fossil]

pause/unpause only saves time if you can avoid the hardfall anyway

[subtle glade]

It's used in menderbug%

[haughty fossil]

and ig where you need early control for a slash to kill our buddy

[copper egret]

ic

[haughty fossil]

i also believe pause-unpause dash-cdash to the left might be slower than just land-cdash? might be wrong. def not for going right since you need to be up high for that

[analog monolith]

i'm not seeing anything about ending flags on that fsm

which is a good thing, but also why in the world does hornet coming in have literally 8 parts before you can even hit them

[limpid ruin]

that sounds slower yea jamie

[copper egret]

Alright tho

[subtle glade]

Maybe faster with wings? so dash-double-cdash?

[haughty fossil]

where are you wingsing too?

[limpid ruin]

just bc the dash + early control delays the landing so much

[haughty fossil]

(to the left to be clear)

[copper egret]

ic

I will test it on tas if it waste frames or not

[subtle glade]

I mean in like all skills, can you early control, dash to the right, double jump and cdash from the wall? Might be a known strat idk

When going to thk

[haughty fossil]

cdashing too early after the early control breaks the cdash fwiw, though that might only be relevant with qol menuing

[analog monolith]

one of the funniest things i've seen is being able to walk around in the cdash animation with that early control

[haughty fossil]

i believe that wings is too far, and in general when you're more limited horizontally than vertically like there wings and landing and jumping are equivalent

[subtle glade]

I ment something like this

[haughty fossil]

is this not already done usually?

[subtle glade]

idk, I don't watch all skills

[haughty fossil]

i've been doing any% movement by instinct but that also seems natural

[leaden python]

yeah this is what true ending runs already do for years

[haughty fossil]

all skills doesn't pause early control which is why we don't wings there

te makes a lot more sense

[subtle glade]

I guessed that's nothing new, but we were talking about crossroads early control so I thought about that

[leaden python]

in all skills we do great slash in to dash+wings

[haughty fossil]

maybe my great slash early control is screwed

i'm always way too low to get a wings off after my dash without touching the ground anyway

[leaden python]

you can release nail art earlier than you think

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/414293858667462656/795027143461568552/unknown.png

just below the red line

like where the well background ends

[normal aspen]

i mean its load dependant right?

[leaden python]

I assume Jamie's loads are slower than mine

[normal aspen]

yeah jamie should just about be able to get the seal without claw lmao

[haughty fossil]

that's probably it

[leaden python]

wouldn't be surprised if my 1221 loads are faster than Jamie's cp loads

[haughty fossil]

vali that's like not even a question

my cp loads with qol on still sometimes exceed 1.2s load normaliser

[copper egret]

Can 1432 save file be used on 1221?

[steady lynx]

Depends

If you saved in Godhome it'll just crash on load

[copper egret]

Ok, i just want to do the uumuu test

[haughty fossil]

don't believe so, i'd just save edit the 1221 file if you need anything specific

[copper egret]

Oh, just seat on the uumuu bench, with 1nail, fury and shaman

[haughty fossil]

if you have 1221 modding api installed you can use debug and benchwarp to make a save

assuming this is for tas i assume you'd then need to move it onto the tas install but that shouldn't be horrible

[copper egret]

I just don't wanna equip the debug on 1221

Yeah, it's for tas, so the mod will effect the game

Let me just try the 1432 save file first

[molten aurora]

Thank you discord for not loading over an hour of messages before I posted something

[elder kindle]

yeah, discord do be doodoo sometimes

[velvet tinsel]

Hey!
Is this where we ask for the speedrun role?
https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/y6dpoe1m

[digital jewel]

yep

[velvet tinsel]

Thx

[warm silo]

well that's kinda rude

that was my speedrun 😦

[hearty adder]

I think it was brought up due to you mentioning 100% within 20hs

[next jasper]

is there a +1 nail route on any%nmg? i'm having a hard time against watcher knights

[digital jewel]

there is. get the wanderer's journal above mantis village after mantis claw. then in city instead of hitting the lever at the bottom and going to watcher knights you:
-rest at watchers spire bench
-go the upper path towards lemm
-collect the hallownest seal
-sell everything to lemm
-buy nail1 and quit out
then after wk you can go straight down watchers spire to kings stag

[next jasper]

perfect, thanks!

[subtle glade]

How much slower would this be

[digital jewel]

I think maybe around a 1-1.5 minutes slower, also taking into account time you'd save on boss fights

[subtle glade]

I think I'll try to do nail0 then

[hearty adder]

It is worth noting at the nail upgrade only takes your damage from 5 to 9, so while it is a little helpful, it's not a huge difference. However, if it helps you be more comfortable while learning the route and WKs, I'd say it's worth

[deep apex]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/y995jpvy got my run approved, can I have the speedrun role?

Also thanks xero for verifying it

[unkempt goblet]

Yoo 25 second pure vessel

[deep apex]

Nice!

[unkempt goblet]

Fury is now my favorite charm in the game

[next jasper]

I seem to be always take some damage to WK (mostly when they jump together or one of them goes out of screen) the upgrade is saving me just enough time not to die to them

[unkempt goblet]

When does timing start and end. Im starting after he screams and ends when i get the final hit

[true palm]

when you factor in how shamans damage works, its only like a 20% damage increase at most, and if you're dying to watchers, 20% more damage doesnt help a whole lot

[unkempt goblet]

Whatever im just gonna keep timing like that. Got like a 21 - 22

[next jasper]

hmmm, ill try a bit more without upgrading, then. But I just got a fair bit more consistent at surviving them with the upgrade so idk

[true palm]

thats most likely the practice kicking in

thats what im saying

if you're doing better now its because YOU are doing better and not the nail upgrade most of the time

[next jasper]

yeah, it could be it

[true palm]

like you'll find most people struggling barely get past the first 3, 20% doesnt solve that

[next jasper]

yeah, the first 3 for me is almost 100% consistent

i usually die on the last 2

[true palm]

i'm not saying its negligible im just saying that by the time you have nail1 fight down, you're like 90% of the way to just doing it nail0

[next jasper]

that does make sense, thx for the insight! ill struggle a bit more w nail0

[true palm]

ye dont torture yourself too hard, take breaks

[hearty adder]

Timing is in the rules at speedrun.com

I assume you mean rta

Or do you mean thk themselves?

[true palm]

i dont think pure vessel is a category?

think they're just practicing fights

[hearty adder]

Aah, mb. Yeah i don't think there's exact timing for that

[unkempt goblet]

Idk im just bored and wanna speedrun pv

So im just gonna keep timing how i am

[hearty adder]

If you want, there are speedruns for the various pantheons

But individual bosses, no

So you can time it however you want

[unkempt goblet]

I might try p4 but markoth

[true palm]

p4 markoth is fine

[unkempt goblet]

Oh yeah, floor

[true palm]

tbh the only reason markoth is ass is because hp literally triples with nail upgrades

speedrun strats manage soul pretty efficiently for the fight as well, so its not as bad as casual play

[trim portal]

Hey all! New arrival to this community here 🙂 I'm learning the Switch version and I was wondering if there were any resources that list the differences between pc and Switch (skips, etc) as most of the content I can find is on the pc version. Thanks and looking forward to getting to know everyone!

[deep apex]

If you’re confident on a few bosses pantheon speedruns are a lot of fun

[digital jewel]

switch version is the same as pc current patch

in terms of strats

[pallid tulip]

I’m on switch too, and there is no difference between pc and switch, however, I think they use an old version of the game. One of the skips I tried that didn’t work was one shot-ing the baldur to the entrance to green path, I have not tried any more 😅

[digital jewel]

yes that's fixed in current patch

watch current patch pc runs and you'll see what still works

[pallid tulip]

I didn’t know that existed wow I’m dumb

[lusty scroll]

yeah also switch has odd quirks i think, its slightly different. i for one found fireball skips and pogos harder on switch when i tired to run it, maybe its because of the 30fps

(not like i can do fireball skip consistently on current patch anyways lol)

[pallid tulip]

Same, the fireball skips are way harder in my opinion (either that or they have always been that hard) maybe it’s easier by using buttons instead of joystick

[lusty scroll]

OH WAIT 30 fps must make it different bc it messes with some projectile speeds i think?

[still rock]

for speedrunner role what speedrun do you need to do /which place do you need

[strong vessel]

Any speedrun, any place

[still rock]

so i could do a 4 hour p1 and that counts?

[strong vessel]

Yep

[lusty scroll]

i honestly could get it but i dont deserve it until i get a time that im happy with

[strong vessel]

You don't need to get a time you're happy with for your first run! If anything, it's better for your second because you can see the time comparison

[lusty scroll]

i mean ive completed like 4

but my sum of average split is sub hour so im aiming for that

[steady lynx]

Main difference between PC cp and console runs is that I use slightly different routes for basically every category except any%

[trim portal]

Thanks everyone! Really appreciate it

[subtle glade]

What's the difference in console and pc? Just load times or is there some other difference?

I'm wondering what causes the changes in route

[strong vessel]

It's time RTA, that's pretty much it

But some load zones are faster if you've already gone through them or something

[hearty adder]

Since it's timed RTA, there are some strats that are more viable with loads than without

[subtle glade]

So there's no loadless timer for console, which means some strats are worthless in console because of how long the loads last?

[digital jewel]

yes

mainly the problem is quitting to menu

which is very slow real-time, but fast loadless

[tall charm]

has anyone here used the autosplitter before?

[haughty fossil]

yes

[deep apex]

Most of us I think, what do you need

[tall charm]

does the autosplit end the run automatically or do i need to add a seperate split or smthin

[deep apex]

What run? But most of them do, yes

[hearty adder]

Autosplitter will split on any ending automatically

So you should have a split at the end that has no assigned autosplit

[tall charm]

oh

ok

[hearty adder]

However, some categories need you to check the "End-triggering autosplit" box

[tall charm]

any% nmg?

[hearty adder]

No

[tall charm]

k

[hearty adder]

Any% splits automatically after absorbing thk

Mostly category extensions use end-triggering autosplit

[tall charm]

alrito thanks in advance

[hearty adder]

So on the autosplitter the last trigger should be Herrah (or thk scream, if you prefer that), but on your splits there should be one additional split that has no autosplit trigger

If you download the any% nmg splits from resources you won't have to set that up yourself

[subtle glade]

First sub 52 king's pass, I'm proud of myself

51:94

[digital jewel]

nice

[cloud depot]

sooooo i never realized this got acepted

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/zgx0k0jm

should i ping src mods or just wait

[raven holly]

They're usually pretty fast. If you don't get it in like 10 min then ping them

[tall charm]

then i died to a husk dandy

[steady lynx]

I was gonna make a doc of routing differences between pc and console but I'm not done routing 112 console yet

[simple goblet]

Created a full Isma's Tear route Any% NMG for fun
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/11K11Q_Un0Tymet0djIlulDi9LWv12M8eK2cFq8E6fEM/edit#slide=id.gd5538abf63_0_4

probably has already been created but I just wanted to do it myself

[mossy sparrow]

anybody know how fireborn and others hold their controllers? liek are they fat fingering the dpad or are they doing pointer thumb? claw with right? im curious and couldnt find much info on google lol

[hallow orchid]

I don't know about fireborn in particular but most just hold the controller normally while playing

so thumb for dpad movement (in my case I use analog and just use thumb for that)

[steady lynx]

I hold it normally mostly but move my right hand a lot to reach over to the D-pad or inventory button

[mossy sparrow]

no claw? what about bindings, i feel like dream nails kinda crinky dink

[hallow orchid]

I just use default binds, almost never claw grip

some rebind their dnail, but you can just do whatever is comfortable

[steady lynx]

Dreamnail is rarely used so close to another face button action so you can just move your thumb up there

[mossy sparrow]

fair enough

so yall use b or rb to cast

[stuck raptor]

quick cast always

[steady lynx]

Never ever use the focus button for spells

[mossy sparrow]

is there like a huge difference or

[stuck raptor]

yes

they function different

[mossy sparrow]

op

[stuck raptor]

quick cast on button press

focus on button release

plus you can accidentally start healing with focus

[steady lynx]

Might not seem huge but for fireball skips it's massive

[stuck raptor]

there's zero reason to use focus over quick cast for spells

[mossy sparrow]

well maybe im the fastest button presser in the world. you dont know

but alright point taken

[stuck raptor]

any time >0 is lost time

you can't press and release a button with zero time

[mossy sparrow]

watch me

[steady lynx]

Go ahead

[digital jewel]

these geo numbers are for current patch, you can save quit back to basin bench after monarch wings, the geo numbers for the moss knights and rocks above hornet are wrong they drop 170 total, despite the geo numbers being for current patch you've drawn the route with lever skip? and also I think in reality the route would get more geo from enemies in city rather than collecting so much in the early game

[hearty adder]

Quick cast releases spells on the first possible frame, Focus loses time because the game is trying to determine whether you're trying to heal or fire

you can't do fb skips with focus due to this

you just can't fire fast enough

[simple goblet]

Ok, I was making this for 1.2.2.1 because that is more popular even though I don't use it which is why I don't know all the geo counts.

[mossy sparrow]

ive never looked up any guides for it so i guess that would make sense why i was having so much trouble lol

[simple goblet]

Thanks for the advice though

[molten aurora]

I'm gonna go try to do a fireball skip without quickcast.

[mossy sparrow]

you mean focus

?

oh

im illiterate

[molten aurora]

No, I edited it, I was dumb.

[digital jewel]

the main reason why nobody does isma's tear route isn't because of a lack of written route, it's because the tricks involved are incredibly difficult and the route wouldn't be any faster than the current one

[mossy sparrow]

but itd be pretty pogchamp if someone got wr with it

heard of this one guy TAS

hes pretty good

[simple goblet]

yea, It was mainly just for fun. I also heard someone is planning to do a TAS with the Isma's route and wanted to see how their route would compare to mine

[haughty fossil]

isma's route is currently being worked on by tas-makers, as it always was considered a tas-only route. It was never believed to save time over the current any% route once we discovered uumuu 2 cycle

i believe optimal bestgirl% (which has an identical route) might have a route pasted somewhere

unfortunately its not in the first place i looked though so

[shut beacon]

has anyone made a tas for hollow knight

[warm silo]

and after some time with the +1 nail you'll get comfortable with the knights and should be able to take them on without it 🙂

[mossy sparrow]

Is there anybody even trying to remap the current route at this point? I feel like there should always be somebody

like theres gotta be some small deviation thats still faster

[simple goblet]

I don't know about for any% NMG but for things like P5 yes

[mossy sparrow]

yeah any%

[digital jewel]

people are always looking for small changes of movement within rooms

but actual routing isn't likely to change

the general route has been the same for almost 4 years now

[subtle glade]

I feel it's more like "maybe this small room optimisation is faster" checks and either "guess it's not" or "huh"

[mossy sparrow]

fuck the general route

[subtle glade]

We found all the required abilities, we would have to find some mad skips to change that

[digital jewel]

the most recent change to the route was when we began killing vengefly king and that was already a couple years ago. before that it was when we switched to selling to lemm after wk instead of before

[subtle glade]

Bc the watcher seal?

[mossy sparrow]

I feel like there has to be some insane geo routing with bench warps that people have overlooked

just completely different early game

[digital jewel]

yeah the watchers seal means we can skip the seal above lemm

[stuck raptor]

early game is dictated by the skills, not geo

[subtle glade]

Geo routing in any% is basically sometimes kill an enemy on the way or get a relic on the way, nothing much you can change

[hearty adder]

any% is a pretty straightforward category, it's very unlikely it'll get any major reroutings

[subtle glade]

pretty straightforward but damn hard to learn

[shut beacon]

how come we dont kill the moss knights in any% but we do in other catagories

[haughty fossil]

dont need that much geo and it takes a while to grab

[shut beacon]

how is that faster in other ones

[ionic cargo]

mostly relics i think

[stiff delta]

Hey if you do see this sorry for coming off rude, i thought you were just going for cheevos because you mentioned the 100% thing, the community would be happy to have you if you submitted it

[haughty fossil]

because we need more geo in other categories than just VK

[subtle glade]

We need some geo for other things in other cathegories, like dash slash in all skills for example

And any% doesn't need as much, so we don't need to do moss knights

The only stuff you collect the early game geo in any% is shaman's and crossroads stag, so 270

[shut beacon]

yeh true

yeh and we dont need to get kings station till later

[subtle glade]

Yea, we get king's station after lemm

[molten aurora]

These were the jankiest inputs I've ever had to do in HK.

With the focus button ^

[shut beacon]

why not just switch?

[mossy sparrow]

ik ive oinly ever gotten it once like that lol

its weird

[shut beacon]

rebind the quickcast to focus if its easier for u

[molten aurora]

I just wanted to see if I could.

[shut beacon]

ohh ok

[molten aurora]

I use quickcast normally.

[subtle glade]

Btw team cherry an optimisation concept, you can't heal in the air so you can make focus/cast work the same as quick cast while airborne

[shut beacon]

why am i giving help i suck at speedruning ahahah

[subtle glade]

Lol, they're just trying if they can do it, it's not that they can't do it with quick cast

[shut beacon]

if only team cherry thaought like you

[shut beacon]

yeea i misunderstood the point : )

[molten aurora]

It turns out, if you're using the focus button, just going for the single fireball is way easier.

That being said, never use the focus button.

[warm silo]

oh no worries lol i was just joking around, that was my first non-casual run just to familiarize myself a bit more with the path

[stiff delta]

👍

[simple goblet]

where in the city/qg would I get 170 geo instead of the moss knights and where do I find the geo amounts for 1.2.2.1

[haughty fossil]

this loop is extremely long, much better to bench in spire for a quitout after nailsmith and use the opportunity to sell to lemm rather than trying to gather geo all over the place

[simple goblet]

so sit at spire bench, grab the hallownest seal, sell the hallownest seal, get nail upgrade, and save and quit.

[haughty fossil]

i mean all routes i developed for this would bench in spire -> upgrade nail THEN kill wk

[simple goblet]

ok

[haughty fossil]

and you'd grab either the journal in king's station or the seal above the stag if you needed that much extra

fwiw doing both moss knights and vk is slow because you need to use all your soul for your vk quick kill, so you have none left for the moss knights

for that reason we usually treat those 2 sources as mutually exclusive

[simple goblet]

might not need any more then just the hallownest seal above the watcher nights but I'll have to check

[haughty fossil]

the point is we don't grab that seal

we sell to lemm and upgrade nail before wk, then kill wk and only grab the chest

straight down to basin from there and the rest is the same

[simple goblet]

whoops, somehow that slipped my mind. I'll figure it out, thanks.

[simple goblet]

Better? You have 28 geo to spare at the end of the run so there is a little optimization to be made but not much.

[haughty fossil]

yeah that looks about right

[lusty scroll]

im honestly considering getting the upgrade just for uumuu, but i dont want to get into bad habits ykno

[simple goblet]

I think nail upgrade is fine because you can still get good times with it and it makes it a lot easier, along with faster if you can't 2-cycle umu

or however you spell it

[raven holly]

If you are interested in really sticking with this game for speedrunning, then a lot of people suggest dropping nail 1 early on. Once you've gotten some practice in it really doesn't make too much of a difference for Watcher Knights and THK. You're gonna have to learn the 2 cycle eventually anyway so getting nail 1 is kinda just delaying the inevitable.

[simple goblet]

yea but if you need it now I wouldn't consider it a bad habit until you learn the 2 cycle and are good at WK and THK.

[raven holly]

Starting off your speedruns with nail 1 is perfectly fine yeah

[lyric burrow]

is there a speedrun mod to skip dialogue?

[digital jewel]

no

why?

[lyric burrow]

I found one in a description of a video but it didn't really work for me

[steady lynx]

Uh... What video?

[haughty fossil]

qol makes dialogue instant scroll

[steady lynx]

Main boards ban any mod or even modding api

[lyric burrow]

oh damn gotcha

[hearty adder]

if you wanna skip dialogue quickly for main boards, switching language to chinese will make it much faster to mash through

[stiff delta]

Or run qol on hk mods leaderboard

[lusty scroll]

i can already do thk and watcher kinghts consistently without nail1 its literally just uumuu lol

[raven holly]

2 cycle Uumuu is hard for even the top runners to get consistently. Everything has to go right so if you mess up a little bit or team cherry decides to eat one of your inputs, then you're probably toast. Don't feel discouraged if you can't get it right away. A lot of runners starting out just go for the 3 cycle until they really want to grind out that 2 cycle practice.

[vocal dove]

?saves

[sick raven]

Saves

---

Windows File Paths: (Assumes Default Steam Install Path, Adjust accordingly for DRM Free or Non-Standard Steam Path)

Game Files: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Hollow Knight\```
** **
Mac File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/Library/Application Support/unity.Team Cherry.Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/hollow_knight.app/```
** **
Linux File Paths:
```Save Files: ~/.config/unity3d/Team Cherry/Hollow Knight/
Game Files: ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Hollow Knight/```

[vocal dove]

i put the json file in the right folder and it doesn't show up in game, i've never used saves before, can anyone help?

[haughty fossil]

the json file isn't read by the game, the .dat is

[vocal dove]

thank you!

[raven holly]

If you're trying to figure out the multiple save states thing in debug, then that's something separate that you can find out more about in #resources

[warm silo]

Multiple save states would be really nice

[toxic laurel]

I've been trying to get into speed running but I only have hollow knight on the switch and ik a lot of the skips and things aren't doable there, does anyone know what a good time is for switch?

[stiff delta]

Switch is on current patch

[stuck raptor]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight#Console_Runs

[stiff delta]

I recommend watching current patch runs to get a better idea of what its like (or just watching switch runs)

Jamie has a banger guide on current patch iirc

[toxic laurel]

ty!!!

[haughty fossil]

its banger if you can wait the 20 years it takes to open i promise

[stuck raptor]

your kids will love it once it opens

[haughty fossil]

its on my list of stuff to do i swear, just after not failing exams

[warm silo]

idk if it's just me but playing on the switch feels so different than playing on pc, idk if it's the performance or just a product of porting it

[haughty fossil]

(also fwiw its also outdated now, new "optimal" route involves picking up spore shroom and using it to decimate thk)

both

switch has bad input lag + hk runs bad at 60fps

[grizzled maple]

It's because in this game fps is related to input responsiveness. So console is basically playing underwater with the input delay it has

Switch is the best of the consoles though to play on, just because the console version seems to be designed to run on switch

[elfin vortex]

Wait which skips arent doable? I swear there arent any patch locked skips used (except city lever) but then again my memorys bad so Idk

[analog monolith]

old epogo

but that's about it

and there's a replacement for that

and invdrops if those count

[elfin vortex]

Oh yup. Plenty of cp methods for epogo tho so yh

[analog monolith]

tbf though lever skip does save a pretty hefty amount of time

[pearl sparrow]

Old epogo is doable but it's way harder

And you have to stand more to the right i think

The soul strat is much better for switch

[haughty fossil]

"old epogo" is not doable, since that strat specifically pogos off the explosion which was patched. There are new methods, all of which involve pogoing on the spore once (or twice depending on your variation of comfypogo) but none of them are similar to any of the original methods. All of them should work on 1221 though.

[pearl sparrow]

Yeah doing damageless old epogo isn't possible but you can do a similar setup and damage tank up with it

You need to be at a specific spot

I only did it once after tons of tries

Not worth

[haughty fossil]

it's not a similar setup really, the timing, lineup and inputs are all different, plus it relies on vsync knockback

[grizzled maple]

The current patch damage version requires low fps to work

Usually runners will use a 60hz monitor and menu to vsync

[pearl sparrow]

What fps is switch?

30?

[grizzled maple]

60, but it dips when you're hit so you do get a little more height than pc which has a stable 60 for the most part when capped

knockback strength when hit is also tied to fps, so the lower the fps the higher you go

It's hardly possible at 144, and basically impossible beyond that

[pearl sparrow]

Would 30fps make it easier then

[grizzled maple]

yes but you really really do not want to run this game at 30 lol

[pearl sparrow]

Yeah

[haughty fossil]

does switch handheld run at 30fps in hk or is that only for some games?

[grizzled maple]

60 already eats inputs for every meal of the day, plus you'd theoretically need to cap your monitor refresh rate to 30 for the entire run (even if you run uncapped outside of the vsync trick) which is... not going to be fun

[pearl sparrow]

Handheld felt the same for me so probably 60

Low fps run would be cool

[haughty fossil]

no it really wouldn't

[grizzled maple]

some games are 30 and some are 60. hk targets 60. pokemon is 30 though which is weird considering they ran at 60 until gen 5 and stopped

[pearl sparrow]

Painful, but interesting

[elfin vortex]

A low fps run would be painful for both the runner and viewer imo

[pearl sparrow]

It would

[haughty fossil]

dw i already see enough submissions dropping 1/5 of frames 🙂

[pearl sparrow]

Not for the viewer if the runner could play well on 30 (not happening)

[hearty adder]

or if the game could play well at 30

[haughty fossil]

if you play at 30fps you basically become a tas, right, because you do all your inputs before the run even starts then watch as they take affect in front of you

[stiff delta]

Unironically id be down for low fps runs

Theres so much goofy stuff you can do when the game if really laggy since stuff is tied to fps

[haughty fossil]

i believe we're in discussion to restrict what low fps stuff you can do, in all rulesets not just nmg, in response to the ingame framerate cap config option

considering if you briefly lower your fps to like 0.1 you can get single attack uumuu cycles

[stiff delta]

im about fps manip cat

Sounds sick

Thats pushing the game to its extremes

[hearty adder]

sick Printscreen strats 😤

[stiff delta]

👀 👀 👀

[copper egret]

https://youtu.be/_ydsK-QbcmI

seems impossible to get one cycle, unless some how get 4 doubles

this video showed 8 nails and 5 fireballs

[slim geyser]

4 doubles sounds really un-doable

i'm not the most experienced uumuu fighter but even with out of bounds strats (which gaurentee doubles) i think only 3 doubles are possible

and those out of bounds strats have only 4 nail hits

[copper egret]

Let me see if I can keep up with uumuu with tas

[slim geyser]

the problem with trying to get so many doubles is that i can't see a place in the arena where you can both get uumuu stuck for nail+fireball combos, and get uumuu unstuck with enough space to get knocked back by 4 fireballs without hitting another wall or platform

[copper egret]

Another player said maybe we can do like this

But I haven't test it yet

[slim geyser]

wait i just realized

what kind of run has wings at uumuu?

[verbal stag]

mag ismas route

[slim geyser]

oh so these are tasing questions

interesting

[copper egret]

Not only wings, I got isams tear haha

[slim geyser]

right, i know the old tas rout

it's not possible to get here without either tear or c-dash

i mean, why else would you do mag isma's

[true palm]

uumuu has a chance to not double when not accelerating away from you as well, keep in mind

also your nail does 16 (fury + nail1), so doubling is only a 4 damage increase to not, dashing across the arena after a double likely loses damage

that rotation shown in the video is 228 damage, so if you managed to get 4 doubles without losing nail swings you're set

but thats unlikely

[slim geyser]

nail 1 TAS?

[true palm]

nail 1 is required for mag route

cant do the wings skip

[slim geyser]

so there is no way even a TAS run could be faster than the normie rout right?

[true palm]

a tas run could be faster if it wasnt the mag route

[slim geyser]

yeah that's what i meant

[true palm]

smooth brain moment

potentially a 1 cycle with nail 2

but that needs pail ore so good luck making that faster

[copper egret]

So theoretically, ismas route is definitely slower the the normal one?

[true palm]

unless you can add 72 damage in that rotation its slower

[copper egret]

I mean the whole run

[slim geyser]

I mean how fast can the TAS gather geo for nail 1 + get an upgrade

because however much time that takes, is the amount of time you need to save elsewhere

[copper egret]

I will updade before wk

[true palm]

ismas was never proven to be faster even with 3 cycle uumuu in normal route

[copper egret]

So I need 470 geo before city of tears

That's pretty sad tho

[copper egret]

Haven't test it, but I have the route for geo collection

How many cycle the uumuu release the flash with good rng?

[verbal stag]

you can skip beasts den

[slim geyser]

🥴

i lied about knowing the tas rout

i know some things about the tas rout

[digital jewel]

if the tas can do 1 cycle uumuu then maybe tas could be faster

it's more interesting anyway

and TASing the current route in a way that satisfies everyone would require a lot more game knowledge 🥴

[copper egret]

yeah

[copper egret]

This is not even double lol

I quit, because it even not close to the 1cycle uumuu

[quiet saddle]

Rofl, that feel when you just KNOW Uumuu needs 1 more hit

[slim geyser]

Worf

[true palm]

uumuu mostly doubles at the end of the cycle, on 1221 uumuu takes less knockback and we rely on the acceleration of uumuu to double

potentially you could do this on 1432

[copper egret]

ic

But it's still not possible to kill uumuu in 1 cycle

[knotty vigil]

What do you think about speedrunning hollow knight?

[verbal stag]

can recommend

[knotty vigil]

Not for me cuz i havent played half of the game i think when im in fungal wastes

[normal aspen]

?srpsa

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[knotty vigil]

I dont need speedrunning help lol

frick wrong location

[subtle glade]

How hard is the crossroads statue pogo?

[verbal stag]

its a little tight but not too bad with a bit of practice

[subtle glade]

Well, got it second try lol

[normal aspen]

its just a rhythm thing

[subtle glade]

And where to start jumping, that's the part that scared me off the first time, but I found a visual cue

[fast bolt]

If I do a speedrun on Ps4 of the Any% category, it is current patch, right?

[subtle glade]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight#Console_Runs

[fast bolt]

Oh

Didn't know that existed, thank you

[deft oar]

trying to pick up any% all skills NMG, really struggling with the first fireball skip in Greenpath, struggling to get the flick right downpat. Any tips for practice?

[somber cedar]

If you use keyboard, it's much easier when you use socd cleaner (should be in pins)

[haughty fossil]

if you use controller, rather than pressing opposite dpad/flicking joystick, you can override joystick left input w/ a tap right on dpad

has the same effect as socd cleaner in that there's no "neutral" time, you go from left -> right instantly

[deft oar]

Mmm! I just always feel like there's a delay on the fireball, probably just need to take a few more runs at it. Thank you!

I'm on controller, btw!

[haughty fossil]

make sure you're using quick cast and not the focus button to cast spells

[deft oar]

Yup, that was my issue. Thank you!

[wide stratus]

I could be wrong, but would pausing the game after going in the well to go underground and then menu dropping to cancel the hard fall be a minor time save?

I haven't seen anyone else do it

[wide stratus]

I've seen that fireb0rn holds left on the analog stick and while holding, taps right on Dpad and quick cast to do it, because Dpad is higher in priority than Dpad for movement

[haughty fossil]

no, since you lose time as the menu opens + closes

[wide stratus]

Oh ok thanks

Guess I won't be doing that anymore lol

One more question: fireb0rn says that quick cast should be on a face button (A, B, X, Y) instead of RB, is this a personal preference thing or is it actually important to do that?

[haughty fossil]

i think most controller runners that i know the layouts of use rb for quick cast

i do certainly, its like one of the few default binds i didn't change 🥴

as a general rule as long as you're not making massive movements for common input patterns any layout is fine

[subtle glade]

Is it normal that in 1.2.2.1 I rarely get the husk in the right spot for a backup of the third fireball skip?

[steady lynx]

Yeah, it can commonly just not be in the right spot

[haughty fossil]

yeah that's an rng spawn

on cp the spawn is consistent, which is why we can use it as a consistent backup/alternate strat

[bright grotto]

how does one get the speedrunning role? do you need to provide meaningful contribution to speedrun.com or is submitting a few runs decent enough?

thx ^

okay I did the thing with the runs submit. what now?

I just wait patiently I guess

[jagged vault]

[haughty fossil]

if memory serves me correctly you should already have a verified run right?

wait there's no speedrun.com mod role to ping anymore lol

[jagged vault]

wolut

whoops

solution, dm the new link to them?

[steady lynx]

Yeah, just send them an invite

[knotty vigil]

i just got a 1h 06m 45s any% nmg cp, last pb was a 1h 14m 22s, both igt

[jagged vault]

[quiet saddle]

I personally much prefer quick cast on a face button (I use Y, with my dream nail going to RB) but it's personal preference. You can get consistent fireball skips with RB, which is prob the tightest cast input requirement you have in a typical run.

[dull folio]

Is there any mod that let's you replay path of pain?

[fair island]

QoL

[haughty fossil]

if being used for speedruns, we don't allow mods on the main boards (only for the modded categories specifically). this includes just having the modding api active.

There are PoP save files available here https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/resources

[digital jewel]

[subtle glade]

Well, there is

I would show but I don't want to ping them

[haughty fossil]

oh mfw it was just everyone was offline, I thought bananas removed you all already

[steady lynx]

That'd mean Simo would have a role less, impossible

[brave trellis]

anyone have any advice for 100% speedrun achievement?

[short spire]

the pins do

[wicked trench]

aka. check this one 🙂
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1820982814

[warm silo]

?pins

[sick raven]

Check the pinned messages for more information - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187137504393035776/823796522751623168/unknown.png

[royal epoch]

ive been getting alot of frame drops on 1221 recently, i havent played in a while but my game used to run fine

[stiff delta]

Did you just start on 1221 or have you always been on 1221

[elfin vortex]

Huh interesting. I have rb to dash and tbh have only seen people bind dash to rt for some reason. Y feels best for qc imo

[lusty scroll]

fuck crystal peaks split all my homies hate crystal peaks split

[prime gorge]

im also getting frame drops and very long loading between rooms. I just got 1221

[haughty fossil]

1221 performs much worse than current patch

if your pc isn't quite good then you either have to deal with the performance loss and cry or run current patch and cry

[lusty scroll]

btw does anyone have resources on the curernt patch infected vengefly room, its unironically harder than wk's for me at this point

[haughty fossil]

mfw that was something i meant to get round to

[lusty scroll]

its so disgustingly hard to go fast in that room

[haughty fossil]

there's still like a 50/50 chance for me to get hit by the second vengefly but otherwise my strat seems consistent enough, i'll see if i can record it later

[lusty scroll]

crystal peaks has 3 of my worst rooms- laser bug cycle, inf vengefly and laser platforming

guess i need to practice grind them lol

at least im consistent at dream platforms now :D

[haughty fossil]

cheart platforming very nice when you learn the setup, most satisfying room in the game

[lusty scroll]

these stupid vengeflies deserve death

[late totem]

[quiet saddle]

I've just accepted getting hit by the 2nd vengefly.

I don't always but my mental health is better if I just accept it

[royal epoch]

Always

[royal epoch]

Im aware, but i never had to deal with actual frame drops up until now so im just confused on why it starts happening now

[hearty adder]

the answer is always clear registry

i get that sometimes, i usually just reset my pc and only open hk+obs+ls once it's on again

[royal epoch]

Cool ill try that, thanks

[lusty scroll]

yeah ive got to this point too aha im just at acceptance now

[dawn walrus]

I'm having problems with the last jump of QGA, any tips you can give me?

[haughty fossil]

a) the lower you are on the right the less time you have on the left
b) you can try cancelling the cdash right before you hit the wall to make it easier to see the animation end
c) just practice, can try cdashing into a wall and jumping out of it somewhere safe

[warm silo]

if you configured your livesplit correctly these things shouldn't affect your time, though they are annoying

[prime gorge]

ok ty

[wide stratus]

Anyone have tips for mantis pogo? The flying mantises are never in the correct spot for some reason

[subtle glade]

Is there any way you can send a video? It would be easier to say what you're doing wrong

[wide stratus]

Hmm

I'll try i guess

Well, I tried it again and one of them was too far left

[haughty fossil]

their ai is consistent if your movements are correct

make sure you're not spending too much time inside the hut after hitting the lever

[wide stratus]

one sec I just recorded it I have to find where OBS saves it...

honestly idk what this format is I'll try to rerecord in mp4

[quiet saddle]

Any way you can send an Mp4? Discord plays those locally, instead of prompting a download

Oh you already said rofl

What timing

[wide stratus]

oh yea lol

haha

[subtle glade]

I think here you should try to drop down closer to the wall, practically hugging it

See if that helps

[wide stratus]

rerecorded in mp4

[subtle glade]

This time you went way too far left into the lever, after you upslash the big mantis you should be just shy of the lever range, just tap left, hit it, and dash back

[wide stratus]

hmmm ok thanks Ill try that

[subtle glade]

And left slash the lever, not upslash

[wide stratus]

yea true

Ok thanks for the help tho

[quiet saddle]

Yea, that vid has you way too far in, altho you already have the level triggered (presumably from your save file)

Also be sure that you're holding up + left for the up slash after dashing in, if you stop and upslash, it'll make the timing more awkward

https://youtu.be/JXLWUwFdrok?t=639

^ Look at Pest's spacing on the jump after killing the standing mantis to see where you should be

[stuck raptor]

he also dashes left immediately here

[wide stratus]

Yea for some reason debugmod messes with my controller inputs so I have to walk back everytime i fail

[stuck raptor]

your video, you dropped all the way to the floor

[wide stratus]

Oh i see

[quiet saddle]

1. hug left wall as you fall
2. dash asap once clear
3. [at black marker] FB -> dash -> walking up slash -> small jump left slash
4. dash
5. pogo left mantis -> dash -> pogo right mantis -> dash

[quiet saddle]

What do you mean?

[quiet saddle]

Anyone willing to take a look at this and give me some insight on what I'm doing wrong? Sometimes I get stuck in tilt loops where I literally can't hit 1/10 of the single fireball skips I try

My doubles are really consistent I find, but this single one haunts my dreams (and my runs)

[twin swallow]

you need to fall a bit before the fireball

it's more about resetting your fall speed there than pushing you back

[stuck raptor]

casting at the apex of jumps minimizes your horizontal distance

where's the parabola drawing by Ax

lol

[leaden python]

Don't have a parabola but do the turnaround after the red line

[quiet saddle]

Holy shit thank you

Just got like 4

How did I not know this 😭

[leaden python]

but instead of blindly following the cue it's better to learn how exactly your momentum gets reset so you have better intuition what you can or can't save :)

[quiet saddle]

Every time I feel like I'm gaining some intuition for this trick, it goes away cuz I fucked it up so much

[leaden python]

Just got like 4
LFG gaming

[quiet saddle]

I'm really good at knowing when my doubles will fail

I recognize the heights and shit easily there

[short spire]

https://youtu.be/yeiD3xcHXmM it's my moment

[twin swallow]

some things in this game I just have to re-learn every 2 weeks no matter how many times I practice them

[quiet saddle]

But my subconscious lives in fear of the single

[stuck raptor]

YAS

[quiet saddle]

Yall are legend; thank you

That YT video is fucking with my brain Axe

If only I'd known

[stuck raptor]

this is why wraiths works just as well

[quiet saddle]

I kept trying to cast right after I start falling cuz in my head, it's like "Oh that's maximal distance" but I can see why the physics say "no" to that

[stuck raptor]

wraiths has no pushback effect

but it resets the gravity velocity to zero again

[quiet saddle]

So for the doubles, it's more about the push back (which makes sense cuz you're always going into a location a fair bit higher than your start

But not the case for this one

I'm glad I finally have the answer to why single was so much harder for me; I keep hearing that the 2nd double should be the hard one

But it's free compared to how bad I am at the single one haha

[subtle glade]

Well the single is pretty easy as long as you realize you have to delay it a bit, shoot it about halfway down falling

[quiet saddle]

The 2nd half of your statement is the key part that I was missing.

[merry bloom]

how would I be able to see liveleak while doing a run?

[subtle glade]

Liveleak?

Do you mean livesplit?

[elfin vortex]

? wdym. Why would u want to watch liveleak lol

[subtle glade]

If you mean livesplit, then if your game is from steam, go to game properties and in the launcher options type "-popupwindow" and change hk to windowed in the in game settings

[merry bloom]

thank you

[subtle glade]

Livesplit can't usually display over fullscreen apps, but if the game is windowed and has "-popupwindow" in the launcher it will be extended to fit the screen to look like fullscreen

[native cypress]

first run ever was 2h40

second is 1h30 i'm so glad

[lusty scroll]

lets goo gj