i dont get why she did the dash slash at the end?
#speedrunning
steady lynx
Airstall
normal aspen
more distance and an airstall
mainly the more distance thing
means u dont need to pogo the spikes and incur the weird freezxeframes
steady lynx
I had a weird idea I gotta try later
bright valve
just wondering, is there a skip involving the mechanics of the cyclone slash?
steady lynx
First that comes to mind is nightmare lantern cutscene
bright valve
i always though the decreased fall rate would be useful for something
steady lynx
If anything the increased fall speed is more useful in speedrunning
bright valve
sometimes the increase has been the death of me in deep chasms
steady lynx
Casually I didn't know you could mash for more hits so I thought it was garbage in combat
bright valve
still leaves you quite vulnerable in combat
steady lynx
It's good for soul gathering
Which is spells which is good
Imagine playing this game without using spells
main fossil
are there any differences in how explosion pogo works on 1221 and current?
o-oh, i see
normal aspen
cp u o\pogo the spore
main fossil
so is this strat harder than standard explosion pogo?
main fossil
ok, thanks
cuz i was watching a tutorial for 1221 and didnt know what i was doing wrong)
normal aspen
the strats for 1221 dont work onm cp
main fossil
Well most of simpler strats seem to be the same so I use 1221 tutorial because I didn’t find a detailed tutorial for current patch
dawn adder
main fossil
are there some differences in Hornet's behaviour also?
jagged vault
hornet always takes 6 hits to stagger on current patch
on 1221 it's 6 for the first one, and 5 after that
frank obsidian
What's the hardest speedrun skip? Most people say QGA, but there's technically that one Ismas any% skip that literally only one person has ever gotten
normal aspen
Prob mag ismas with the old strat
steady lynx
It's really impressive that anyone even thought that skip up
normal aspen
yeah mag is a gamer
steady lynx
Wouldn't it in theory be easier at lower fps since the dash gets extended slightly?
normal aspen
maybe but the worse input handling at lower fps prob makes it harder
steady lynx
Terrible trade off
steady lynx
Nobody will ever do it in a full run anyway
I gotta learn comfepogo first though since the console strat won't work on PC
main fossil
just curious, whats the skip you're talkng about? could you send a video?
rugged crow
extremely difficult ismas skip, not sure there's a video for it.
limpid ruin
brought to you by the chain dying to flukemarm guy
https://twitter.com/ins0mniaSR/status/1325753650635923456?s=19
Twitter
rugged crow
wasn't sure if that was the same one, thanks 
steady lynx
The famous Celeste runner Fireb0rn made a video on it
main fossil
wow
normal aspen
yo whos that idiot
devout wing
i was wondering, where can i get a keyboard overlay, like monstah's?
limpid ruin
nohboard and then window capturing it is a simple choice
frank obsidian
Prob mag ismas with the old strat
What do u mean "old strat?" There's a new one?
limpid ruin
s0mni found some extra additions (nail turnaround on the wall) that made it much easier bc of the extra frames it gave
(or that was someone else with s0mni, who knows)
short spire
mag was already doing the nail
bruh dont delete your question just as i link the resources for it lol
low bramble
ax just dropping epogo tutorials for no reason yhtsi
normal aspen
nah the original way was the one linked above with the nail swing
Twitter
this clip shows the new one
but basically its getting a wallcling on the higher bit
it makes getting up after hitting the wall really easy and removes the nail swing turnaround
noble geyser
hey everyone, Im a new member of the server and want to try my hand at speedrunning, so Im practicing the any% route. if I want to grind things like boss fights, how can I repeatedly do those without needing to repeat the entire run? is there a way to repeat events that should only occur once?
true palm
debug mod
if you're on patch 1221 theres a guide on speedrun.com
if you're on current patch you can just grab the mod installer and its in the list
true palm
@noble geyser https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/guide/7br3d
the modding api on the youtube video and debug mod are outdated on the drive im pretty sure
modding api: #resources message
debug mod: #resources message
short spire
not updating the links was a conscious decision due to not wanting to answer 100 comments about why the new debug ui has some slight differences
true palm
while you're at it, some overlooked resources for 1221:
timer mod: #resources message
benchwarp mod: #resources message
short spire
the savestate binds being on a different page mainly
noble geyser
thanks a lot!
true palm
no problem, good luck with the practice!
honest folio
where in livesplit can i find the "difference with gold segment" thing
i dont want to compare my splits to it just want a different row for it
honest folio
nope, have that
i want that but an extra one that compares to best segments
wait hold up
true palm
ye you can change the settings for that
knotty vigil
what’s the best way to practice bosses on switch/ps4? I’m finding it hard to practice without any debug/practice mods
true palm
ps4 can backup saves i think
steady lynx
I just set up a bunch of practice files on a profile and used cloud saves
true palm
in general making a practice save, something without ismas voidheart, etc can be helpful to practice skips
for switch
neon jay
what’s the best way to practice bosses on switch/ps4? I’m finding it hard to pra...
hall of gods?
steady lynx
Hall of gods doesn't help practicing any% Watcher Knight
neon jay
true
true palm
hall of gods has different hp values for several bosses as well iirc
particularly hornet 1
also hog does not help with uumuu
steady lynx
I think WK is kinda close to nail4 health but you'd still have a way too good nail and the 6th watcher not crushed by the chandelier
true palm
for watchers quit out after the 1st pair
ideally you kill 1, then 2 and 3, then 4 and 5, and outside the beginning 2 and 3 wont vary from 4 and 5 for watcher knights
for uumuu i'd quit out after 2nd cycle
steady lynx
I honestly never practiced bosses until very recently, just started doing runs hoping it'd work
true palm
things like vk quick kill and hornet might be a little tough
knotty vigil
yeah I’m finding vk quick kill quite hard
steady lynx
It's very annoying on console
steady lynx
I think trombon has the highest success rate on that and even he drops it sometimes
sick ravenBOT
Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602
lime jungle
Ok
shut beacon
what does srpsa stand for
steady lynx
speedrun psa
true palm
Speed Run Public Service Announcement
shut beacon
oh oki
knotty vigil
also finding the cp explosion pogo very hard to practice as well but I guess it’s just perseverance that’ll help me
true palm
what method are you using?
knotty vigil
3 fireball
true palm
you should look at vsync pogo as well
you can do it on console with no setting changes
since you're already 60fps
its about the same difficulty as 3 fireball comfy, but uses no soul (does damage tank though)
knotty vigil
thank you for the help! much appreciated
true palm
no problem
main advantage of learning this one is you can do it as a comfy pogo backup
strong vessel
Or learn and fail pantapogo 
true palm
if you practice this on your main save you also have more hp so you can do more attempts
console pantapogo 
steady lynx
My favourite epogo is console low% epogo
true palm
oh thats a treat
steady lynx
switch legit almost runs poorly enough to get up there without VS
true palm
i think with some practice it might be about the same difficulty as vsync pogo
i think any method of epogo is fine for current patch, but for console please do yourself a favor and stay away from panta
hallow orchid
Yeah for console save your sanity and don't try pantapogo
(it's really cool when you get it but it is a lot more practice than the others)
true palm
tbh the timesave/timeloss from any method doesnt matter if you get it 100% of the time, current patch rng kind of overrides that
cyan tundra
Would it be faster in an any% run to just kill soul master, save and quit to the bench at salubra´s house and then use desolate dive to get into crystal peak?
normal aspen
dive is a hardsaave
hearty adder
even if, you'd still have to go through all of Soul Sanctum, which is a pain and nobody likes 
hallow orchid
If dive wasn't a hard save it could maybe have been viable 
steady lynx
If it wasn't a hard save the Dash slash, Shade Soul, Soul Sanctum route would've been faster for True Ending
neon jay
I am very sad
I could have gotten 18th place for steel soul any% if I recorded it
but I forgot
hearty adder
Well, if you got that time once you can get it again
neon jay
yea
hallow orchid
Simply record your upcoming 17th place then 
neon jay
ok
cyan tundra
dive is a hardsaave
So i guess it would save time at the end? I mean you also could cheese bosses like THK with dive
ok
normal aspen
Sanctum is super slow
haughty fossil
if you are given the option to avoid sanctum, you avoid sanctum. absolute hellhole i hate it
honest folio
who doesn't hate sanctum
frank obsidian
Just do a 
true palm
I could have gotten 18th place for steel soul any% if I recorded it
any% steel soul peepoArrive
darknest is better than sanctum
therefore tram pass is better
and that is why we dont need dive
also if you're doing current patch any% steel soul make sure to do sporeshroom
molten aurora
In regards to the alternate spike tunnel skip using dash slash, I was wondering if you do it something like this, is it really any slower than the normal way, because it's way comfier.
true palm
it would be slightly slower yes
but optimally you would do a setupless spike tunnel anyway
digital jewel
you lose the 2nd inventory drop
it's not that bad though
definitely worth it if the dash slash tunnel skip works for you and the other version doesn't
true palm
logically getting a skip first try with a slower setup is typically faster than missing it and getting it second try with a faster one
molten aurora
Oh I didn't even know you used a 2nd inv drop, makes sense it's slower.
Also, there's a setupless spike tunnel?
haughty fossil
any right side spike tunnel gamers
actually unironically could work w/ dash slash
true palm
it could probably unironically work with just fireballs right?
molten aurora
I was actually looking at that Jamie, is it possible?
haughty fossil
yeah but fireballs are slow
iirc i remember there being a clip of right side spike tunnel with dash slash
should be same concept, dash in, airstall using the dash slash, then pogo+dash
cyan tundra
In regards to the alternate spike tunnel skip using dash slash, I was wondering ...
Can´t you just do that to get to dung defender quickly, get ismas tear and skip all of crystal peak?
cyan tundra
in any%?
haughty fossil
no this is all skills
true palm
cheart is required for tear (unless you're doing some moglar skips)
haughty fossil
any% tear is slower because you need to get wings for the acid skip
digital jewel
there's no fast route for any% that beats dung defender
that's a really slow route
cyan tundra
How exactly is cheart required?
haughty fossil
monomon
true palm
try getting ismas without cheart or wings
haughty fossil
can't get to her without isma's or cheart
digital jewel
you can get ismas without cheart or wings but it requires killing dung defender and a shade skip
short spire
right side spike tunnel is way way harder than left side
the hitboxes are much closer together
digital jewel
so it's not viable anyway
cyan tundra
can't get to her without isma's or cheart
thats what i mean but i think you dont need cheart to get to imas tear
cyan tundra
ok
true palm
cpeak (including all of the setup with geo) only takes a couple minutes
haughty fossil
for any%:
current route: get geo for lantern, buy lantern, go get cheart, quitout to dirtmouth and go to uumuu
mag route: bench at spire and go upgrade your nail to nail1. quitout and then go to basin, buying the bench then dying at the end of the spike tunnel.
shade skip towards wings, pick up wings. quitout back basin bench and climb to isma's.
right side spike tunnel (not easy) to get outside isma's grove. Then do an insanely difficult trick only 1 person has actually completed (ifli) to get into grove.
Quitout again, go to king's station, stag to dirtmouth, go to uumuu.
fair phoenix
@everyone
haughty fossil
doesn't work bud
molten aurora
Wow, I actually did it.
cyan tundra
for any%:
current route: get geo for lantern, buy lantern, go get cheart, quitou...
How can you bench in basin, then quitout to spire?
I mean shade skip requires benching
haughty fossil
you don't and i made a mistake 🥴
bright valve
would the Mag route be faster with a TAS?
haughty fossil
fwiw mag route was only theorised to be faster because it allowed a 2 cycle uumuu before we found the setup for the 2 cycle currently used in any%
bright valve
(faster than current route)
haughty fossil
i mean mag route's movement was never optimised to the extent current route has been
true palm
we dont have any consistent numbers for it, nor can we TAS
maybe if someone was equipped with some macros we could get a time for it
bright valve
true, only insomnia and magolor himself has ever pulled it off
dull lion
But regardless it’s so damn difficult and it would be close regardless so it will never be used
haughty fossil
technically mag never completed the trick, only proved it was possible. somni has been the only person to do all 3 parts in a row.
true palm
its also most likely slower, it was only very slightly possible to be faster before uumuu
even with tas
bright valve
But regardless it’s so damn difficult and it would be close regardless so it wil...
would still make a much more epic video doing the ismas grove skip
dull lion
Sure but it’s borderline impossible. Literally only 1 person has ever successfully done it lol
haughty fossil
we don't care about an epic video, we care about getting fast times 
and resetting 20 minutes into every any% run is not a productive way of achieving those times
cyan tundra
fwiw mag route was only theorised to be faster because it allowed a 2 cycle uumu...
I think you are also able to skip some more stuff using wings
true palm
beasts den was another major time save
haughty fossil
you can also skip beasts den yes
dull lion
Still not worth
bright valve
that was the point of the run i think, to skip beasts den
haughty fossil
the point is it was only barely worth, and when any% 2 cycle was found it became not worth
the point was to both have nail1 for uumuu, allowing an easier 2 cycle, and then beast's den was skippable making up for the timeloss compared to peaks. When any% 2 cycle uumuu was found all the timesave was nullified, it would be seconds faster at most, if not slower, with our current movement tech.
bright valve
and i guess the current route still has room for slight optimisation, so those seconds would be surpassed fast anyway
true palm
if you're interested in theory crafting, the folks running te have been looking for a new route anyway...
mild moon
I don't think it was ever actually faster, even before 2 cycle, but people have always liked meming about it being optimal.
bright valve
theory crafting before even beating NKG and getting 112%? ill give it a shot
dull lion
It just occurred to me, did mag route theoretically do dark deepnest route all the way from hot springs? That sounds🥴
true palm
darknest is free
bright valve
sounds scary
molten aurora
You don't need to have 112 to theorycraft of run for that matter.
mild moon
In any case, it would do dark deepnest from QG
bright valve
a good start for theory crafting would be mapping out the fully optimised route and time stamping each area
haughty fossil
darknest is free, doing darknest as fast as any% does it is not as free
bright valve
darknest is scary and thats all that matters to me 😔
mild moon
Isma allows the difficult QGA skip to get into QG without Crystal Heart
true palm
like being able to see more of the room barely makes a difference if you have the room memorized
bright valve
the only use for ismas skip is for item/room rando with no crystal heart, who knows what isma is hiding? a rancid egg? the city of tears map?
true palm
deepling rng is the only difference
haughty fossil
mag skip is not in logic for rando and i don't really think anyone is that insane to actually do it rather than just follow logic 
dull lion
I mean with soul twister and vessels it wouldn’t be that bad
bright valve
thats the point i memed mag skip, because im the first person to ever do that
dull lion
Still shouldn’t be in logic though
cyan tundra
In any% couldn´t you defeat False Knight to get the city crest, then use it to get into sanctum faster??
probably not i guess
bright valve
beating false knight is barrel rng and a time sink, while you get 200 geo thats easily made up for, and sanctum is slow too, as is isma skip, so its not really worth
haughty fossil
sanctum is infinite timeloss in any category
true palm
beating false knight is barrel rng and a time sink, while you get 200 geo thats ...
false knight has minimal rng, we damage tank it
you can stagger false knight before they even finish slamming the ground
bright valve
sanctum would mean you could skip lantern, but thats already been thought of, theres a reason people dont use it
haughty fossil
the any% nmg route is fairly set in stone at this point, its pretty safe to assume basic stuff like "do left side city instead of right side" has been timed and tested
true palm
literally leaving the dive hardsave takes about as long as cpeak
cyan tundra
even if FK loses 30 seconds or so wouldn´t that be faster than collecting all the geo for lantern?
true palm
nope
dull lion
No
cyan tundra
ok
true palm
getting relics and selling takes at max 30 additional seconds (eh more like 40-50)
dry sluice
would the Mag route be faster with a TAS?
I skipped a lot of this conversation so sorry if anyone has answered this properly already but no
dull lion
Like Jamie said. Any% has been very optimized. No offense but you aren’t going to discover a re-route for it.
dry sluice
It was maybe faster at the time, but never even confirmed then. And would absolutely not be now
true palm
sanctum is avoided in every category that doesnt mandate it because its such a detour
its located in a bad spot of the map with a hard save and its prone to rng and long
dull lion
If you want to theorycraft your best bet is TE, 1xx, or CP All Skills
true palm
a lot of the longer meme cats could be rerouted
dull lion
That too but since meme cats I figured I’d leave it out
dry sluice
technically mag never completed the trick, only proved it was possible. somni ha...
Also afaik the actual mag skip still hasn't been done all at once without twister, could be wrong though
true palm
but almost all of the mainboard cats are solved completely at this point unless you were to discover an unknown non major glitch interaction (similar to sporeshroom)
dry sluice
(Not to say what somni did isn't impressive he's fucking insane)
bright valve
If you want to theorycraft your best bet is TE, 1xx, or CP All Skills
well, magolor did manage to find a theoretical reroute, theres no reason someone couldnt set aside 5 hours to pure brainstorming and find a new (slower) route thats never been tested
true palm
any% is just beat the game as fast as possible, theres infinite routes
but any route that isnt faster than the current one doesnt matter a whole lot in my eyes at least
bright valve
also, whats TE
true palm
true ending
bright valve
ah yes, in one hour a tiny bug beat up the sun
true palm
basically current route grabs shade soul, delete some dream warriors, and then beat radiance
bright valve
but if i try to beat up the sun irl i die
pfft, favouritism
true palm
either an essence route or complete damage change has been theorized for a while for true ending
bright valve
what do you mean complete damage change
true palm
descending dark or abyss shriek
theres routes for both
neither have been faster yet so far
dull lion
Descending dark would be 🥴
true palm
ddark has the advantage of allowing you to get soul tyrant essence
which would cut elder hu gorb or no eyes
dull lion
Yeah but just general damage. Or do you get shade soul too?
true palm
we get shade soul already
digital jewel
false knight is closer to a 45s timeloss, more if you collect city crest as well
and the city crest entrance is very slow compared to shade skip, especially because we need dream nail and city right side no matter what
dull lion
Okay so you get shade soul and ddark. I was thinking you’d skip shade soul altogether and that sounded gross lol
bright valve
descending dark would be faster, you could get it right after C-heart and then haul ass to the resting ground, and abyss shriek can be found on your way to shade cloak, abyss shriek would be more ideal but D darks I frames would be very useful in time saves
true palm
but we have no reason to go fight soul master and tyrant
and in order to get ddark
we have to back to crystal peak
dull lion
And wraiths is so far out of the way for shriek
true palm
but we have to go there first for elegant key
digital jewel
you need the first tier of upgrade to get descending dark or abyss shriek
that's what makes them bad to get
true palm
if you're interested in the problem i'd check out some of monstahs routes
mild moon
Descending Dark is not very useful for True Ending in general though.
bright valve
you would be able to altogether skip howling peaks (gorb) if you fought soul master wouldnt you? thats gets you DD and soul tyrant can obviously skip gorb and possibly xero/no eyes
frank obsidian
Descending Dark is not very useful for True Ending in general though.
Why not? It does ebic damage with SS. Ignoring the fact you first need DD.
haughty fossil
try using ddark on radiance
limpid ruin
just flukemarm dive kill strats on rad
frank obsidian
Several people are typing
true palm
you would be able to altogether skip howling peaks (gorb) if you fought soul mas...
we delete gorb in about 1.5 seconds with shade soul, and it takes very little time to get to cliffs
bright valve
gorb would be a big detour in the route wouldnt it? you would need to go to kings pass first
true palm
by that point we have cheart wings and claw
its a lengthy one
but not as bad as sanctum
i'd watch a couple runs and you can understand the route a little better
bright valve
youw would obviously upgrade nail in TE, so you could do soul tyrant on your way out? or am i just wrong
dull lion
(This is a total meme but hear me out) Darknest wraiths route. You kill mantis lords for MoP to do the lever skip after wraiths then go straight into darknest for Galien and Herrah... I just want a non 1xx cat to fight mantis lords 
true palm
all of our damage is from shade soul
molten aurora
Upgrading nail is a bad thing in TE
haughty fossil
nail upgrades make dream warriors take longer since their health scales
vague jolt
(This is a total meme but hear me out) Darknest wraiths route. You kill mantis l...
There are some meme cats that fight mantis lords for the geo if you want them
mild moon
MoP does not work for that lever
bright valve
huh
dull lion
Damn way to ruin my dreams homothety
true palm
the Speeddocs for true ending is also pretty interesting and covers some routes as well if you dont want to watch a full run
haughty fossil
5 damage to 9 damage is much less than shade soul's 40 damage, with potential to 80 or even 120 on failed champ
bright valve
jesus
limpid ruin
do nail upgrades scale from the first one already?
true palm
depends on the boss
but shade soul can also potentially triple on radiance with god tier rng
cyan wasp
god tier rng doesn't sound like relevant for routing
digital jewel
yeah dream warrior hp scales even at first upgrade
true palm
anyways shriek does 120 damage which is 50% more damage than a double
the point of shriek route is to get that for radiance
the point of dive route is to skip dream warriors
both have major issues
mild moon
Shriek route can get a competitive time.
dull lion
It’s just 🥴
mild moon
There hasn't been a viable route with Soul Tyrant since before 1:15 was cracked.
true palm
shriek has potential
bright valve
do you do white defender in the route?
true palm
i dont think we'll see a change from shade soul though
cyan wasp
only need claw for shriek, but it's pretty far from the route, no?
true palm
we do not, which is another possibility
dull lion
No cause WD has crazy amounts of health
bright valve
what about Grey prince zote?
dull lion
And killing DD would take a while
true palm
only need claw for shriek, but it's pretty far from the route, no?
base wraiths does very little damage
haughty fossil
colo 1 in true ending 🥴
bright valve
grey prince could easily skip some dream warriors, and its just outside a stag
true palm
also we dont save zote in greenpath with current geo routing
cyan wasp
right, but you need wraiths before the abyss visit, so where on the route can that go?
haughty fossil
you need to kill zote in colo 1 for gpz to appear
true palm
when we do no eyes at the end
haughty fossil
colo 1 takes literally forever
vague jolt
also we dont save zote in greenpath with current geo routing
I can't help but feel that having to save zote in gp is the least important problem with that
bright valve
exactly
true palm
its definitely not the most important problem
cyan wasp
don't you need to meet zote in deepnest and city before colo1 too?
true palm
takes like 4 with needing moss knights
bright valve
just deepnest
true palm
anyways te is a complex problem, its been mostly solved but it could be cracked some more who knows
godhome ending is another one that could see optimization
strong vessel
The problem with godhome ending is that it's hard to know what's worth getting for pantheons
dark blaze
What loadout does ge for panths
true palm
im not sure theres a set one
dark blaze
All u need is shriek tbh
You can skip all scream skips without dive too
So no need for ddark
strong vessel
Well, you need dive regardless and ddark is nice I guess
Who knows
It's probably super hard to time
bright valve
as a person who has never done pantheon speedruns, id say it would be worth getting fragile strength, first pale ore upgrade and FotF
true palm
well it looks like they get strength
strong vessel
They get strength and the first two ore upgrades
true palm
and some nail upgrades
strong vessel
Fury is useless though in pantheons, unless they want to die
bright valve
so i was spot on
dark blaze
Yeah nail 2 dps fury doesnt seem worth
bright valve
hasnt mohnstahler done an 18 minute PoH with fury? people have done 3:14 pantheon of artist, so why wouldnt you get FotF? it would speed them all up significantly if you are a god at dodging
strong vessel
I mean, there's no reason to not get coiled nail, since two pale ore are pretty much required, and getting Nosk's probably doesn't take much extra time
There's no lifeblood on fresh saves
strong vessel
So you'd literally be at one health the entire time
dark blaze
You have nail 2
true palm
also ye fury strats past pantheon 1 is a good way to never finish a run
dark blaze
Your dps wouldnt be as fast do its better off just getting off grubsong or smth
bright valve
theoretically you could never get hit, its unreasonable to think, but possible
cyan wasp
maybe an idea for tas
true palm
thats not gonna feel good
strong vessel
Or better yet, gruz mother
true palm
maybe an idea for tas
fury pantheon tas's maybe, but you cant tas outside of very isolated environments
strong vessel
Who is honestly more deadly at 1 hp than NKG
true palm
dying to gruz is a lot earlier in the pantheon
less timeloss
its not about likelihood
strong vessel
True
true palm
its about the fact that you lose like 20 minutes dying to NKG with godhome ending setup on p5
bright valve
well i mean, people who can consistantly do NKG on radiant should have no problem doing the same with a +75% damage increase right?
bright valve
oh right him, yeah just give up at that point
true palm
point is that ye you can do it consistently for a lot of bosses
but getting hit once is a reset
and after a 2 hour run, you dont want to take that risk
strong vessel
Isn't it also fastest to damage tank NKG too
bright valve
wait
true palm
also damage tanking on like every boss is just faster
bright valve
damage tank a double damage boss with 1.5k health
strong vessel
In pantheon speedruns
true palm
theres very specific health management
strong vessel
Well, the point isn't to take damage, since there's a spot that you can stand where you shouldn't get hit
true palm
to allow you to damage tank yes
strong vessel
But yes, shriek spam
bright valve
i have seen that cheese for TmG, but more hp and double the damage doesnt seem feesable to me
true palm
theres one spot where the bullethell pattern is unlikely to hit
with 7 hp you can take a hit
bright valve
oh
true palm
i was more referring to for godhome ending what hp and what charms is worth
7 hp in pantheons isnt to make it cozy, its because damage tanking is often faster
optimizing godhome ending would take timing the amount of time to grab something versus timesave in pantheons versus difficulty of both
for instance, is going for a completely spell oriented setup with stuff like catcher/eater/shamans/twister faster than nail upgrades with strength? not only do you time the fights you time how long it takes to get it
bright valve
this speedrun optmisation stuff seems like a fierce competition, maybe ill play hollow knight more and think about optimisation while its fresh in silksong whenever that comes out so i have more of a chance to find something
true palm
you'd be surprised what you can find with the niche categories
i've found several optimizations for low%
dusk portal
Trying to find routes for unofficial Category Extensions is great too
true palm
meme routing is often a lot more likely to be changeable
hearty adder
Meme runs are best runs the best ground for optimization if what you're looking for is finding solutions for stuff
bright valve
ill put playing the game uncompetitevly first, but who knows, maybe ill look at some meme categories later and find something
stark birch
Trying to find routes for unofficial Category Extensions is great too
Is there a specific route you’re looking for? I have most of them I could find in the pinned spreadsheet in #misc-runs-nmg
strong vessel
Meme routing is very fun
stark birch
Ah I see the edit now nvm
vocal dove
can someone help me understand nail cancels? i feel like when i mess up the timing i end up dropping as much as 2 fireball inputs. is it supposed to be more like nail>fireball or fireball>nail?
true palm
its nail fireball
you fireball during the backhalf of your nail
its called a nail cancel because it cancels the animation of your nail
attempting to fireball too early will result in the fireball not going off
id recommend just turning on infinite soul and just playing around with it
vocal dove
ok thanks, i'll definitely do that!
true palm
the reason nail fireball is faster is because fireballs lock you out of actions, and your nail has a cool down as well, by fireballing to cancel the backhalf you're essentially getting damage when you wouldnt be able too other wise
the timing will always be the same unless you parry with your nail, in which case its stalled because of the freeze frame
bright valve
i was surprised that parries deal damage honestly
i learned it the hard way doing the blue lake shade skip
true palm
parries dont always do damage
if your nail hitbox would collide with the enemy it does damage anyway
but you can parry just the swing and not their hitbox
hearty adder
parries would be really useful if they didn't freeze the whole screen 
true palm
parries in general are a very underdeveloped mechanic, outside of some rando skips, this is the only other use i've found
obviously shade skips are an exception
manic vault
as my first Category of runs, should i go for Current patch NMG ? or just NMG 1.2.2.1 ? kinda confused since i dont really understand the difference :x
uneven pike
cp is easier to set up
and has a really cheesy way to kill thk
but 1.2.2.1 is faster
also a lot of tricks on 1.2.2.1 are easier
limpid dust
1.2.2.1 if you aren't lazy to downpatch imo
hearty adder
also if your pc can run 1221 well, going with that wouldn't be a bad idea
assuming you're interested in main board cats
hallow orchid
Thk is definitely harder on cp than on 1221
uneven pike
Thk is definitely harder on cp than on 1221
spore shroom?
low bramble
1.2.2.1 is a much more optimized catagory than any% cp
hallow orchid
1221 thk is super slow and easy compared to cp. Even though spore shroom lets you kill cp thk quickly it's still a much faster boss who does more damage
maiden bane
1.2.2.1 is a much more optimized catagory than any% cp
This is kind of tautological because it's only true as long as players are directed to 1221
manic vault
i see, sooo, if I got it right, CP is if i want to have a shot at the leaderboard and if i prefer a more challenging THK ? and 1.2.2.1 if i want to follow other people steps ?
and have an easier time to do the run*
low bramble
true but if celeer enjoys more optimized runs, than 1.2.2.1 would be the better choice, i dont get the point of ur statement glitchy
dull lion
Yeah. 1221 is honestly just more fun IMO too
hearty adder
1221 has some stuff that's more convenient, like lever skip in watcher's spire
if you want a more challenging thk then yeah, cp would be better
hallow orchid
CP is a harder category but you don't have to downpatch and the game runs a lot better basically
gusty sedge
anybody have an invite link for speedgaming discord? The discord link from their youtube and twitch pages is broken (https://discord.com/invite/42MTCEV)
hallow orchid
If you want easier to learn then downpatch, if you want easier to jump into go cp
leaden python
I think the only thing that is easier on CP any% is WK fight
and I guess Uumuu cuz no 2 cycle yet
hallow orchid
Yeah and even then it's not that much easier
limpid dust
If you want to be the fastest downpatch as well
manic vault
if i go CP, the debug mod instalment is different than the 1221 ? or its the same procedure ?
leaden python
in this case fastest is not really an argument cuz CP and 1221 have separate leaderboards
so you don't compete with 1221 runners running CP
hallow orchid
For CP you use the modinstaller to get debug mod, for 1221 you have to install it yourself
limpid dust
I think it s an argument. I prefer to run on the fastest patch.
dull lion
CP debug is installed with mod installer pinned in #archived-modding-development (I think)
uneven pike
i run on cp cause im lazy and because comfypogo feels sick as fuck
hallow orchid
I mean the fastest patch is whatever any% ag is run on
leaden python
I mean, CP any% is faster RTA than 1221 any%
like you're getting faster ingame times with 1221 but you burn more of your life
So I guess you prefer running the patch that gives you smaller livesplit numbers
haughty fossil
1221 doesn't lose 4s on quitouts if you have a bad pc
hallow orchid
What a world it would be if we ranked the boards rta lol. There'd be so many more cp categories
limpid dust
Good pc would still be faster on 1.2.2.1 tbh
dry sluice
I mean the fastest patch is whatever any% ag is run on <:feelspkman:639636442821...
1028
manic vault
i have a good pc so it wouldnt be a problem i guess ?
low bramble
yea then you’re fine either way
i would watch a run of each and choose which seems more fun with this in mind
hallow orchid
All this to say it's preference. You can try them both and see what you like!
haughty fossil
i'd watch a 1221 run and a cp run, see which one you prefer (inv drops are def a good feeling on 1221 for sure)
manic vault
i guess there's skips that there's on 1221 that isnt possible on CP ?
gusty sedge
anybody have an invite link for speedgaming discord? The discord link from their...
nevermind, I found a good link from their main twitch page (https://discord.gg/SpeedGaming)
leaden python
Fire has pretty good pc I think, but his RTA on 1221 is barely faster than paum's 36:xx run on CP leaderboards. So no
manic vault
but is the opposite true aswell ?
limpid dust
No except the hk cheese I guess
haughty fossil
not the opposite really, there's cg1 quick kill and spore shroom thk
hallow orchid
Theres a couple things that are cp specific but not as many yeah
haughty fossil
1221 has lever skips and the qg hazard warp (in any%), everything else is pretty minor
molten aurora
Baldur instakill as well.
hallow orchid
But lever skips save a ridiculous amount of time
copper sluice
1.2.2.1 is a lot of fun
hallow orchid
Baldur instakill is pretty minor imo
haughty fossil
if you're not killing baldur with longnail then you're doing it wrong 😤
limpid dust
Or best way to choose watch a run in both version and see which one you prefer
hallow orchid
Honestly though so is the qg hazard warp
Literally the major timesaves of 1221 over cp in any% are 1) the fact that you can't skip dreamer cutscenes and 2) the spire lever skip
Without those they'd be like within a minute
manic vault
Baldur instakill as well.
there's no baldur instakill on CP ?
haughty fossil
correct
manic vault
that is quite a turn off lol
haughty fossil
so you have double the baldur rng
hallow orchid
Double the excuses for why my early game is bad
molten aurora
4
uneven pike
wait really
haughty fossil
(run, not game)
hallow orchid
It's really not a big problem, it's a couple extra seconds
haughty fossil
baldur's shell is guarded by 2 baldurs
uneven pike
oh yeah
manic vault
then i guess its ok 🙂
i have no idea how to speedrun yet, all those questions are before i jump in xd
so far, 1221 seems great, but CP has more potential on getting optimized
and to get my name on the Leaderboard
hallow orchid
I mean if you do any run at all you can get your name on the board
manic vault
i mean first page ? xd
hallow orchid
Lol it's all one page. But if you want Top X then yeah itll be easier on cp but also Top X is kind of a meaningless number
manic vault
how comes ?
molten aurora
If you are aiming for the top, neither cat will be easy, so just choose the one you enjoy more.
hallow orchid
I mean it's all preference but I don't like judging my times by how many people have happened to run the category ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
manic vault
I mean it's all preference but I don't like judging my times by how many people ...
i see, good thing you're not comparing yourself among everyone who has ran the game so far
vocal dove
setting goals for times instead of setting goals for placement >>>
hallow orchid
Yeah I know some people run for placement but I do personally prefer going for specific times and looking at my own improvement primarily, unless it's for wr or something
raven holly
Just set a goal that just so happens to be 1s faster than wr 
molten aurora
I feel like running for placement when starting out, will lead to a lot of disappointment, at least in a competitive game like HK. Not saying you can't do it, but it'll take more than 1000 hours (if not much more) to come close to that goal potentially.
hallow orchid
Or if you want pure competition just do meme runs with like 3 active runners
Guaranteed top 3 
hallow orchid
I got bopped in ACN nmg but I'm still ACN nmms wr holder by accident
But you see jamie, it looks like pain
Also like I want to do comfy pogo
leaden python
speaking of active runners... @ aertosaber submit all skills pbs because of you people think that the category is ded
haughty fossil
its fine its like
fury fk
one single trick
fury hornet
then you get nail upgrade, strength and spore shroom
hallow orchid
But like comfypogo
I literally would have already run it if it wasn't for epogo lol
haughty fossil
reject comfy, return to pant vsync
leaden python
1fb is pretty comfy actually
hallow orchid
I rejected pantsync to invent fireball epogos for a reason
leaden python
it's pretty consistent by itself and has fuck ton of backups to adjust
haughty fossil
you already want vsync for baldur kill so you might as well keep it on until then
low bramble
i set it up after the pb
leaden python
bilibili it is 😤
low bramble
yell at jamie ohko and jb to run it instead
we dont care if ur moving jb cp as is more important
hallow orchid
Imagine submitting AS runs couldn't be me
limpid dust
Usually youtube let you upload even with music
low bramble
my any% board run is 2mins slower than my pb lmao
leaden python
Imagine submitting AS runs couldn't be me
speaking of nonsubmitters 😠
haughty fossil
can't believe i haven't submitted my ACN pb 😤
molten aurora
Huh, so I just checked my fps and it's a lot worse than I thought, 230fps at 1440p, do we go full potato and go 720p? Or is 230fps good enough?
leaden python
230 is good enough
hallow orchid
Honestly for main boards submitting is whatever but for meme boards it's vital
We only have like 3 or 4 runs
leaden python
I mean AS CP is very young so submitting there is vital as well
hallow orchid
That is fair
low bramble
thats true
hallow orchid
But my runs have been bad
haughty fossil
you assume i can submit pbs to cp as when i don't get pbs
low bramble
math just run regular route
manic vault
last question, is it easier to swap from 1221 to cp ? or cp to 1221 ?
leaden python
But imagine, that your sole existence on the leaderboard can motivate people into running it
molten aurora
230 is good enough
Yay, I get to keep my dead pixel 
leaden python
dead pixel for life
hallow orchid
But regular route is not fun
low bramble
sanctum is less rng than uumuu
leaden python
you don't have to run regular route, it's just for numbers. I'm only saying that because I got legit complains that the category is dead because only 1 person (Jamie) is running it
hallow orchid
last question, is it easier to swap from 1221 to cp ? or cp to 1221 ?
When you downpatch make a separate install of 1221. Then switching between is trivial
low bramble
ill submit tn whether i pb or not
vocal dove
last question, is it easier to swap from 1221 to cp ? or cp to 1221 ?
better to pick one and stick to it because cp has better input handling than 1221
sorry if i pinged you
molten aurora
you don't have to run regular route, it's just for numbers. I'm only saying that...
What run is this? time to bob Jamie
manic vault
When you downpatch make a separate install of 1221. Then switching between is tr...
i mean to run the game. sorry about the confusion.
leaden python
I think Jamie got 58:something like a week ago
haughty fossil
yeah cp as is impossible to run
leaden python
which is pretty respectable by the current category standards
haughty fossil
had a pb pace run die to THK of all things 🥴
low bramble
also i will help out personally any new cp as runners feel free to dm me
haughty fossil
same here 🙂
molten aurora
i mean to run the game. sorry about the confusion.
I find that playing cp after getting used to 1221 is reaaaly strange, I don't like it at all, I'd reccomend playing on 1 version only.
hallow orchid
For running the game I think switching between is the same, you have to get used to it again
leaden python
I think when I'm done with 1221 AS for good I might just go all in and bring cp down to like 54 so it's at least optimized enough for people to have a motivation to grind it
hallow orchid
Probably it's easier to go cp->1221 than vice versa though
If there's any difference that is
leaden python
idk every time I go from 1221 to cp I feel right at home
hallow orchid
That's because cp is the best patch
leaden python
I can imagine it's not being like this for og runners for whom older patches were their casual ones
low bramble
if 1221 is so good why did they keep updating the game? checkmate cheater patch runners
leaden python
I think kry said that CP and even 1221 feel just horribly floaty to her after all the 1028 experience :)
hearty adder
basically it's zoomers vs boomers 😤
hallow orchid
Yeah I can see that, like 1.5 will probably not feel as good
mental kiln
Hello I just clipped into the wall in my HN copy on switch and wantet to ask if that was already discovered: So I save quit to the bench at Umuu from Queens Gardens and then dreamnailed before the screen was loaded and then I was in the wall on the left of the bench
hallow orchid
Except they fixed dashmaster so nvm it's going to be amazing bring on the wk backrolls
vocal dove
Hello I just clipped into the wall in my HN copy on switch and wantet to ask if ...
that doesn't sound like too useful of a glitch, but thanks for letting us know!
wary fern
@sly radish help me with a quest bro
rocky path
I wanna start speedrunning any% hk, can someone send me the route or like notes on where to go
knotty vigil
Go on speedrun.com, fire born has good guides on there
rocky path
thanks
molten aurora
Keep in mind fireborn's vids are on 1.2.2.1, not current patch.
knotty vigil
Also how do you use livesplit one I can’t figure it out
low bramble
are you on windows?
knotty vigil
Like can you use it outside of the browser
The whole reason I’m using it is because I’m on Mac
low bramble
i believe livesplit is weird on macs, people here definitely know more than me tho
elfin vortex
as I said before u can use livesplit through wine but the autosplitter is broken
livesplit one is fine but honestly before I switched to a windows parition I prefered LS through wine to LS one just cuz its outside of browser
dapper cove
isn't there a thing called livesplit one that can be used for mac?
elfin vortex
yes but its browser based and they seem to want to use it outside of the browser
dapper cove
gotcha
potent radish
This may seen vague, but I want to get into speedrunning (any% nmg) and was wondering if anyone had any general tips. My best time so far is 3 hours, 49 minutes I believe (no skips, or really any techniques. Just a basic run, as I am not very good. Trying to learn a few now.)
vocal dove
don't only practice with full runs, segmented practice can be more helpful.
elfin vortex
Im learning 112 but general tips should still apply. Get familiar with the bosses (in any% nmg's case practise twk alot with debug mod save states). Try not to take unnescescary damage which will result in you loosing time to healing and finally complete one full run (dont worry about the time), see where you messed up/died etc and then practise those bits
potent radish
don't only practice with full runs, segmented practice can be more helpful.
Yeah, I have been trying it out a bit today. I managed to learn a couple of skips, and it really helped.
potent radish
Im learning 112 but general tips should still apply. Get familiar with the bosse...
Alright, thanks!
elfin vortex
then slowly introduce strats like fireball skips while having backups like the squits and the bug thingy near the edge of the plat going into the big green room
potent radish
Save states are great lol
elfin vortex
yup. Just started using them today and theyre hella useful
potent radish
same
vocal dove
Yeah, I have been trying it out a bit today. I managed to learn a couple of skip...
another tip would be to tap the "@ On" button when replying to someone so you don't ping them!
potent radish
another tip would be to tap the "@ On" button when replying to someone so you do...
Oh gosh, I did not know that existed! Thanks lol.
vocal dove
np! and yeah savestates are the best. my skill level improved dramatically when coming to PC from switch because of practicing with save states.
potent radish
yeah
I used them to try to learn how to do watcher knights correctly
key word
try
elfin vortex
theyre annoying sons of bitches when ur learning any%
potent radish
y e s
I am bad at this boss in a normal run-
I only managed to do it with 5 masks by spamming Descending Dark because I-Frames are broken
elfin vortex
from what I can remember doing them for the speedrun achievment I died several times to then and would have died FAR MORE if I hadnt just finished radianting HoG
molten aurora
I only managed to do it with 5 masks by spamming Descending Dark because I-Frame...
That's just all skills wk
potent radish
yeah
elfin vortex
I only managed to do it with 5 masks by spamming Descending Dark because I-Frame...
take advantage of them as much as u can cuz learning how to fight them without wings takes time
you do fight them without wings in any nmg right?
potent radish
again, It was not a true "speedrun" more just me doing the game quickly
potent radish
you do fight them without wings in any nmg right?
yea-
molten aurora
You don't get wings at all in any%
potent radish
I actually had wings when I did them, but I don't think I used them to much
yeah
you can use a skip for the only point that technically "requires" them
elfin vortex
huh sounds like theres alot of pogoing involved then
molten aurora
I'm torn between learning any% and 106%.
potent radish
huh sounds like theres alot of pogoing involved then
Uh, yeah
elfin vortex
ngl I dont see the point of 106
molten aurora
Full completing 1.2.2.1. It's not run on the same patch as 112.
It's a totally diferrent run.
jagged vault
The runs are very ddiffereny
elfin vortex
any% is a good cat cuz its short, fun and you can realize the areas to improve quickly
jagged vault
Mainly in the use of Flukenest
potent radish
huh
last inlet
yeah it's often run for if you prefer how 1221 plays/don't want to do pantheons/like fluke kills
potent radish
Again, I am really new to running
potent radish
oh, yeah doesn't it do way more dmg?
elfin vortex
huh interesting that 106 and 112 differ abit
jagged vault
Thus, both the combat and route is very different
potent radish
from like 4 to 6 or smth
last inlet
fun fact: 106% is the only main category that doesnt drop the chandelier bc it's literally faster to just fluke wk
jagged vault
It does 144 with shaman on 1221
potent radish
Yeah
jagged vault
Also only costs 2 notches
potent radish
again, the dmg of each fluke went from 6 or smth to 4
jagged vault
And does not wake up bosses from staggers
jagged vault
Which lets you shoot multiple full shots on bosses when they are staggered
elfin vortex
I'm torn between learning any% and 106%.
worst thing about 106 and 112 is def their length tho so it rlly depends on how much time u are willing to set aside for it
potent radish
Yeah
tbh, I'm not that interested in 100%+
it does seem long
And again
I am not good
I have not done p4 yet
molten aurora
Learning the run doesn't bother me, it'd actually be nice to have a little more game knowledge outside of the 1 run I know
elfin vortex
Im only running 112 cuz while any% is super fun I prefer the idea of keeping consistency in 112 and that its a real feckin test of endurance
molten aurora
I feel for me, 106 would be a more chill run, something I don't need to stress about as much.
elfin vortex
opposite for me lol but 112 in my eyes sits on a higher pedestal
elfin vortex
How fast is it normally?
wr is 3h 15m by monstahler
potent radish
Oh, its way more impressive if you know what it takes
potent radish
wr is 3h 15m by monstahler
Faster then my best any% lol
molten aurora
The thing with 112 is mistakes will be made, it's almost not possible to do the entire run without making a mistake, so when it does happen, it doesn't feel as bad as in any% or other shorter cats.
elfin vortex
The thing with 112 is mistakes will be made, it's almost not possible to do the ...
true true. You often make up the time later in the run but god is endgame scary
potent radish
Yeah, its less intense because of that, but more intense because you know that if you screw up to much you will have to do the whole thing over again. Thats what I assume anyways.
elfin vortex
wait 106 doesnt do pantheons so its not as stressful nvm
jagged vault
106 is technical but not too scary in the combat aspect
potent radish
tbh, I dont love the pantheons
jagged vault
Afaik
potent radish
I have only done 3, but neither have been super fun for me
molten aurora
Idk, fury fk scares the hell out of me.
jagged vault
Except for overcharm colos
Fury fk is very lenient if you know the strat
You can miss a nail hit and still get the rotation
molten aurora
I know the strat, I just haven't practiced it enough to have the timing down.
Fury hornet is easier for me.
elfin vortex
Yeah, its less intense because of that, but more intense because you know that i...
tbh even if u mess up massively its still good to finish (unless ur trying to set a high ranking time) cuz just completing runs in general is good
potent radish
tbh even if u mess up massively its still good to finish (unless ur trying to se...
Yeah, makes sense
last inlet
idk if there's a good guide for fury fk specifically but if you look at adam's te guide ep1 he actually covers the best way to get 8 hits in
jagged vault
Because i’m just way more likely to mess up on that fight playing too agressive
molten aurora
I've spent 15-20 on hornet 2, hornet 1 is a pushover in comparison, except those damned empty hops.
elfin vortex
fury strats are fun af most times but whenever I fight fury hornet I cant help it but my playstyle changes despite quick hitless hornet being ez
molten aurora
idk if there's a good guide for fury fk specifically but if you look at adam's t...
vysuals 106 guide explains it well, I just haven't practiced enough
last inlet
ah ok
molten aurora
Actually, speaking of vysuals, his gdq TE run is what got me into the game, and I want to learn TE, but I've heard it's pretty rough.
last inlet
it's honestly not that bad if you put some time into learning the harder fights and wp
elfin vortex
ngl a large part of me wanting to run 112 was the fact that wp is in there. wp is just so much fun
molten aurora
Hmm, okay, maybe I'll have a look at some runs again, I haven't actually watched a TE run since starting to speedrun.
WP is fun, even casually I really enjoyed it, I can't wait to learn it properly.
elfin vortex
mhm. Wish it was harder when playing normally cuz it was pretty underwhelming tbh
PoP however...
elfin vortex
Im not too up to date on PoP runs but do you reckon the current wr is able to be lowered?
twin swallow
current tas is ~10s faster than human wr
last inlet
yes it can be lowered, but it'd be very hard
elfin vortex
wait theres a PoP tas???
last inlet
yep
twin swallow
it's bonkers
last inlet
idk if anyone here has the link
elfin vortex
that sounds epic. I've seen the p5 tas so I can only imagine how insane the PoP one is
prime delta
twin swallow
ya
elfin vortex
thanks!
elfin vortex
damn first thing that strikes me about it is how theres literally no wasted time inbetween actions/dashes etc and its all just immediate without hesitation
twin swallow
the beauty of having control over every single frame
elfin vortex
christ thats amazing
molten aurora
Wait, what's that 'flying' glitch, that looks cool as heck.
leaden python
I like how they timed an airwalk (this is how the flying glitch called) to the bass drop
molten aurora
Wait, THAT'S an airwalk?
digital jewel
seeing an actual nmg pop tas is cool
molten aurora
I've only ever seen the airwalk in AS, I never knew it could be used like that.
elfin vortex
tas'ers are hella underappreciated in speedrunning
leaden python
Yeah I wish we had more optimized nmg pop
like, this one doesn't use cyclone drop properly, and doesn't use new thorn jump skip strat
dreamy bough
iirc jumping airwalk is insanely tight to get humanely right? like sustaining jumps like that is tas only
molten aurora
I imagine every jump would have to be physics frame perfect, I could be totally wrong though.
leaden python
we had a small discussion about it in misc-runs, and 56 proven that it's not humanly impossible
molten aurora
That's a shame, it'd be cool to see what a human could do with that trick, especially in such a short run.
jagged vault
oh do you like have to let go and repress jump on the same frame or smth?
manic vault
man, i dont seem to find the way to play on 1.
1221*
like, everyone has a way to instal the 1221 patch
molten aurora
knotty vigil
i thought the dark room in crystal peaks would be a lot harder than it is
i was worried about it but now im consistent
molten aurora
Nah, it's pretty chill, especially if you use the safer strats.
knotty vigil
i use the cdash one
molten aurora
Yup, same here, haven't bothered the learn all dashes yet.
You learning all skills gnome?
molten aurora
Dark deepnest is a bit harder, but with a bit of practice it's not too hard either.
3 room in deepnest.
Well, 2.5 rooms.
knotty vigil
okay i should get that part down too then before i try another run
only done 1 run and it ended with cpeaks room
molten aurora
Yeah, I'd learn it, it took me 30mins or so before I was comfortable enough to attempt it in a run.
knotty vigil
what cat is your main goose?
molten aurora
If you're not already, check out pisces all skills guide, it's for 1.2.2.1, but the dark rooms are the same.
All skills, it's the only one I know right now.
knotty vigil
do you do cp or downpatch?
marsh junco
my video settings uses my second monitor's settings for some reason, I've googled it to try to find a solution and people have had the same question but I haven't found an answer. I asked this in #hk-help already and they said to ask here also
grizzled maple
What do you mean by video settings?
marsh junco
options > video
digital jewel
video settings is really not a speedrun thing
grizzled maple
We can probably help maybe but gonna be honest I really still don't understand the question. What are you trying to accomplish?
digital jewel
I'm not even sure what you mean
marsh junco
hollow knight is on my 59 hz monitor and my 2nd monitor is 40 hz. On cp it shows the 59 hz option but switches to 40 after confirming and on 1221 it only shows the 40 hz one.
digital jewel
you don't want to use vsync anyway
grizzled maple
Well first of all, don't use vsync
You want the most fps you can get with this game because fps is directly tied to input responsiveness
marsh junco
I dont have vsync
grizzled maple
some things are pure fps, some are physics frames
you do if you have an fps matching your refresh rate. that's literally what vsync does
marsh junco
I thought it would display as 40 fps to the monitor because it thinks the monitor is 40 hz but i just checked each frame and apparently it's the full framerate
molten aurora
If you have vsync turned off, your refresh rate won't affect your fps.
grizzled maple
If it's the actual framerate, then that's your pc. You won't be able to get more than that from 1221. It was highly unoptimized. People like you are the reason we made categories for current patch.
knotty vigil
for future reference, is it possible to have a modded cp version of hollow knight, a cp unmodded version, and a 1221 version at the same time?
molten aurora
Yep.
molten aurora
You can have every version of hollow knight all modded and unmodded.
All at the same time.
knotty vigil
imma go work on my dark deepnest so i can finally do a full run of all skills
molten aurora
Good luck.
wooden ore
for future reference, is it possible to have a modded cp version of hollow knigh...
there isn't a limit to how many installations of hollow knight you can have afaik
I have like 8 
last inlet
i have 3 bc i'm too lazy to switch which assembly i'm using
jagged vault
SWEET JESUS that's a PB improvement
yo spiral i didn't know you got into speedruns! that's sick! 
naive nova
Yeah, there's a Team Widers deathless speedrun tourney, so I figured this was the perfect excuse to do some speedies
I initially just wanted sub 40:00 for current patch steel soul and I just almost got it after like 5 days of working on it.
All I gotta say is praise the shroom and praise the comfypogo
knotty vigil
is there no lemm in all skills cp?
holy shit watcher knights are sooo easy in all skills
like damn
digital jewel
there's no lemm in all skills cp fastest route
drifting gorge
Hey, trying to downpatch my hollow knight from steam using depotdownloader, when i put the command in, i get this error:
'dotnet' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
haughty fossil
you need to install dotnet
haughty fossil
https://dotnet.microsoft.com/download get the runtime version
feral pawn
I guess for my 3rd ever speedrun of this game (Any% on PS4) I can feel glad knowing from 1st speedrun (Where I thought the under 5 hours achievement was on PS4 lmao WHOOPS) to 2nd, I cut like 50 minutes, and now with this 3rd one I cut down another 40-ish minutes
Progress!
I'm also learning I really need to work on fighting THK cause wowie that seems to be my biggest hurdle atm
next jasper
hey guys, when downloading the depot file do downpatch the game, how big is that file? so that i have an idea of how long it should take
i left it downloading a couple hours ago and tried opening the game but it's still on current patch
jagged vault
It takes a good bit depending on your download speed
It’s not in the same place
They are separate installs
haughty fossil
you need steam_appid.txt then
fwiw the download is equivalent to the entire game download, so around 5GB
but follow the rest of the downpatching guide, where it says stuff about installing
next jasper
but follow the rest of the downpatching guide, where it says stuff about install...
alright! i'll try. thank you 
small magnet
Hey guys, not sure if this is known, but I've been able to recreate it over and over in debugger. Skips Hornet 1 dialogue
https://clips.twitch.tv/FrigidDifferentClintItsBoshyTime-s45_lXURSWme9xxa
small magnet
Gotcha. Didn't seem weird enough to be super obscure, but figured I'd ask :X
You should probably almost never have full soul going into H1 though, yeah?
leaden python
106 has full soul, but also fury which probably makes skip not worth
small magnet
At least I don't think I ever have. Only reason I had it there was because I was full soul from debugger and trying to nuke some for a more realistic practice
Yeah, the dialogue isn't super long or anything. Didn't seem like much of a time save if you hve to burn soul to do it
leaden python
there is also a thing that if you have a spare fireball after the fight it means that you probably had to skip the dialog. But idk how to foresee this
small magnet
That could also mean you missed a chance to fireball somewhere too, though
So it's hard to say if it was "Extra" or a mistake
Cool. Well, thank you :3
normal aspen
I think it's tied to how many doubles you plan on getting
small magnet
all of them. I plan to get all the doubles 
normal aspen
3 doubles I can't remember if it's fb on full soul or on 2 thirds
next jasper
so, apparently the downpatch worked but now it's crashing when i'm on Greenpath Entrance. Also, one of those enemies are invisible, and all I cant see is it's orange particles. Any ideas of what that might be?
It crashed twice when i got to the same spot
next jasper
is there a way to be sure of it? I have waited for about 3 hours
normal aspen
It would give a message
next jasper
as in a pop-up window or something? I didn't get that, no...
hearty adder
in the same window it'd say that it's done
jagged vault
It seems like you closed the download window midway
next jasper
right, I'll try again, thanks! 
true palm
there is also a thing that if you have a spare fireball after the fight it means...
the only way is to plan on getting a certain amount of doubles, and then never nailing when you have full soul which is unrealistic imo
true palm
right, I'll try again, thanks! <:fleacrying:725954285908787202>
if you scroll down to the bottom of the hollow knight data folder it will say sharedassets391.assets.resS or something similar
knotty fulcrum
Damn, i love slowrunning
arctic sinew
hearty adder
?srpsa
sick ravenBOT
Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602
civic marsh
how do i setup a dreamgate in debug mod?
dapper cove
you add a new dreamgate, and then whichever one you want to use you just click on the name of it and use dreamgate normally
i have one save file with a bunch of dreamgate locations so i can just go quickly to wherever i need to practice
frank cobalt
anyone else ever have issues using Sound Effects for livesplit?
it's straight up just not playing audio when I split a gold
and I definitely have it set
molten aurora
Huh, so if you stagger hornet in the air, and hit her again before she hits the ground, it wont break the stagger.
naive nova
Won’t break stagger but it counts towards the next stun. Pretty nice
knotty vigil
you do a similar thing in the dung defender quick kill in 106, you have 2 hits of soul then hit him once in the air as he staggers then do 2 dream nails
molten aurora
Clawless shade skip is kinda hard.
dull lion
Have you looked at a proper guide for it? It’s not that bad once you have the setup down. Definitely not free like the any%/AS one though
Vys does a great job explaining it in his TE tutorial if you haven’t
molten aurora
Yeah, I'm watching vysuals guide, I've hit it a few times now and it wasn't too bad, feels way cooler than any%.
dull lion
Yeah it feels and looks awesome. Once you get it down you can be pretty consistent with it too. The first few times are really tough though
molten aurora
It didn't take me long to hit it the first few times, but I can tell it'll take me a while to get consistent.
dull lion
Don’t be afraid to reset the shade if you’re setup seems messed up too. Don’t try to save it off a fireball, it loses way more time to miss it than reset the shade
molten aurora
I consistently get all the pogos and fireballs, I'll just be missing a tiny bit of height.
Yeah, I just reset if it fireballs.
normal aspen
You're probably fireballing too soon if you aren't getting enough height
dull lion
You want to fireball at the peak of your pogo height
molten aurora
Yeah, I either fireball too soon or pogo too late, I see when I make the mistake, I just need to work on the timing.
dull lion
Pogo too late won’t really happen since you can pogo as soon as you can when you start falling out of fireball so just focus on fireball timings. It’ll give you one less thing to worry about
dull lion
Yeah you can spell right out of nail (nail cancel) but not nail right out of spell so that’s the only one that matters
Glad I could help
molten aurora
Now it's just the fireball after the parry, gotta love the whole game freezing after a parry
dull lion
Yeah when you lose inputs to it is super annoying
molten aurora
Damn, I honestly didn't think I'd pick it up this quickly, the shade skip scared me more than any of the bosses. Time to start getting scared about FC.
normal aspen
Yeah outside of dash only, none of the blue lake shade skips are thay bad they are just flashy
dull lion
FC sucks until you get the rhythm down then is just kinda rough. 5 mask shade soul radiance is brutal though. I’ve lost like my last 4 runs on pace for 1:16-1:18 to radiance
It’s the single thing keeping me from pbing by like 4-6 minutes lol
molten aurora
Oh yeah, I forgot I need to fight radiance 
dull lion
Practice it a lot. When I was actively running TE I practiced for probably 6 hours in 2 days and was getting it like 50%. It’s not easy even though the top TE runners make it look that way
molten aurora
I struggled casually with shriek, it's definitely something I'll need to practice. I just hope I find the fight fun, with AS hornet 2, I find the fight really fun and I've practiced for around 20 hours now. If I enjoy the fight, I'll be happy to practice it.
dull lion
A lot of people seem to. Unfortunately radiance has never been one of my favorites which is a lot of the reason I don’t do a lot of TE. I love the rest of the cat though so I think I just need to do a lot more practice and get good soon
molten aurora
I'm so glad TE has seer skip, it's truly beautiful.
dim wagon
hi, im new to speedruning in general and wanted to speedrun hollow knight. What category should i start with?