speedrunning

[oak oyster]

Does purely visual mods like CustomKnight invalidate your speedrun if submitted to speedrun.com?

[small magnet]

Yes

I think there might be some category extensions that allow mods, but the main boards don't allow you to have any mod installed in your run

[stray kestrel]

There are separate modded boards

[uneven scarab]

To answer this, having any mods installed will invalidate ur run

[stray kestrel]

Including just the modding API

[oak oyster]

How come if it's just visual, or is it just to make sure that absolutely nothing is modifying your run?

[stray kestrel]

The API makes your game perform better and cycles will be different

[oak oyster]

Ohh, makes sense, thanks everyone!

[small magnet]

Is menderbug% a real thing? I swear I've heard it mentioned, but... is it just a meme or am I a bit dim in the head? o.o

[oak oyster]

I've seen a couple runs on YT but I didn't see it as a category on speedrun.com

[stark birch]

it was recently added as a meme, not as a full category though; it's an extension of an extension

I think its official title is KP NG + RNG or something like that

yeah it's under ILs on the extension board https://www.speedrun.com/hkmemes/Kings_Pass#Any

[small magnet]

Oh, got it! Thanks!

[mighty rain]

Can you be given the speedrun role if youve got a vid of you doing a speedrun but you dont have a timer

[thorn jasper]

if you submit it to src and it gets approved. it'll be timed real time

[mighty rain]

Thanks slaurent

[loud jackal]

im going to do my first attempt at a speedrun tomorrow, anyone got any general tips for nerves and stuff?

[long lichen]

Pee and let the dogs out first?

[loud jackal]

alright ill keep that in mind

i dont own any dogs so that may be a little difficult

[long lichen]

The nerves go away pretty quick once you're actually in the run. Too much else to think about. Even in a race.

[digital jewel]

don't focus on the timer too much. any run you finish is a PB when it's your first run

[strong vessel]

Don't panic if you die to WK or something

[digital jewel]

you'll be facepalming the entire time over mistakes you make so just keep looking ahead to the rest of the run and you can fix those mistakes afterwards in practice

[loud jackal]

ok

[thorn jasper]

does "let the dogs out" mean ||go poop||?

[loud jackal]

thanks

[long lichen]

in my case, no, I have 2 very large dogs that have a bad habit of wanting to go out when I'm in the middle of a run. But yeah, try to take care of any distractions first. I suppose that would be one.

[haughty fossil]

don't forget to have big drink next to you

staying hydrated is very important

[loud jackal]

alright

[long lichen]

When I'm in a race that uses mouse and keyboard, it's a huge problem, because Dax will put his head under my mouse arm and lift it up to make me stop playing.

[hearty adder]

Eat pizza and drink coke

[small magnet]

Or if you're anything like me you could always just not fix those mistakes ever O.O

[haughty fossil]

that's all of us dw

i still occasionally forget to do the entire claw segment

[long lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/reference-captain-america-avengers-understood-gif-7991943

[haughty fossil]

dw i'm also confused yeah its a picrew

(she/they btw )

[blazing aspen]

This is a really dumb question but would it be like a disrespect to pro speedrunners if I were to make a speedrunning intro video for noobs

[jagged vault]

i don't see how it could hurt if all the information is correct

though, do note that there are already very good and up to date guides made aimed at beginners, like the any% guide on fire's channel or the guides on speedrun.com

[blazing aspen]

Yea I watched that a ton to help me

I might base mine on a bit of an alternate route I used so that I could actually beat it because I'm not that good

[jagged vault]

but to answer your question, no, it would not be disrespectful at all! everyone has advice to share, and the more resources, the better!

[snow dome]

We actively want people to get involved.

If you're video/playlist is good enough, it would probably get shared by people on here

[true hound]

can you do crossroads acid skip on cp?

[haughty fossil]

yes

are you trying to do it with isma's tear?

[true hound]

no

[haughty fossil]

alright, then you just want to walk off the floating platform into the left wall, and press cdash as soon as you hit the wall

[true hound]

so, same as on 1221?

[haughty fossil]

yep

[true hound]

alright thank you!

[haughty fossil]

[true hound]

🙂

idk why but the discord smiley face looks like it's internally suffering

[thorn jasper]

that's wild, but idk if it would help speed up pantheons, because you lose all your soul

[subtle marsh]

it could be a good trade-off tho

[haughty fossil]

i've seen this before, so it's definitely known, can't remember whether we decided if it was major or just not worth losing soul

[normal aspen]

I think it was major? Brain is concave tho

[hallow orchid]

Does this work for other bosses?

Enraged guardian if you're on 1hp at the end of the fight you've probably got bigger problems

[heavy frost]

don’t know but it should if there’s environmental hazards

[subtle marsh]

probably only with ones that have stage hazards

[hallow orchid]

Like doing it on p5 uumuu might be worth

[heavy frost]

Or markoth

[hallow orchid]

Assuming you're on very low hp

[subtle marsh]

lol just found a glitch, nothing major or usefull its just that if you desolat dive on the lost kin then stagger him with it he will slide into the corner

[livid stirrup]

Me, trying to speedrun: :)
My brain: if it's not a PB it's not worth anything. you suck
Me, getting increasingly sad and frustrated: plz just let me enjoy this
My brain: no

[thorn jasper]

same

[livid stirrup]

It sucks man

[thorn jasper]

negative feelings are hard to deal with, but it may be helpful to learn that we all get these sorts of feelings about ourselves. no one is immune to the demons of self-hatred. learning to recognize them is a huge chunk of the battle, and it sounds like you're on your way

[haughty fossil]

some people find that running without being able to see their splits really helps keep a positive mentality

(personally i don't because the uncertainty literally kills me but )

[livid stirrup]

Thanks fam

And yeah I think the uncertainty would drive me crazy too lol

[normal aspen]

the way i look at it, you shold be trying to learn from every run. If i finish a run that dies to a boss but also gets a gold split elsewhere, then thats progress. If I have practiced a segment and it goes a bit cleaner, then thats progress. Even the worst run at least tells you what you need to work on, and that is still progress

Speedrunners tend to notice flaws more than improvements because the ideal outcome is the baseline comparison, but you shouldn't let that obscure your perception of progress

[livid stirrup]

I appreciate that

You're very right

[chrome bramble]

i just skipped hornet text how i did a VS at the begining before text and instead of text the fight started

[twin swallow]

Yeah if you fireball her before dialogue she just starts the fight

[chrome bramble]

oh i never knew that6

[normal aspen]

thats a known thing, its only faster if you get the right amount of double hit fireballs to end with no soul

[twin swallow]

Questionable value because you waste soul

[normal aspen]

or in a different way, if you end with a cast of soul you should have done it

[long lichen]

Downpatching now. I changed my mind and will be starting with any% nmg

[crude raptor]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/y66dj46y
can someone give the the speedrunner role please?

[vocal dove]

[limpid ruin]

Definitely major

[dense harbor]

?rank Speedrun Racer

[sick raven]

@dense harbor, you joined Speedrun Racer.

[dense harbor]

?rank Randomizer Racer

[sick raven]

@dense harbor, you joined Randomizer Racer.

[fading fern]

Hah my livesplit froze so I can't save today's PB so I gotta either just say nevermind or manually input the time for every split

[heavy frost]

some funny follow ups while testing https://streamable.com/5296cl https://streamable.com/tciw7q

didnt find anything useful tho

[long lichen]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I can't find it. Can anyone point me to a current link for the 1.2.2.1 Mod API. The links in Fire's downpatching/modding video appear to be outdated.

Nevermind, found it on Ax2u's video description

[mental kiln]

Do you accept runs that are submitted to some upload plattform like google drive?

[drowsy tangle]

Yes you just have to link to the video so basically all video platforms should work i think

[proud vessel]

im practicing wk, and i just got past the first pair of them for the first time

just wanted to say that, since im proud of myself for it

so i havent really been practicing much the past week

or at all, really

i mean i got past the first one, and the first pair

it was cool

it was very gaming

im going to keep practicing tonight either until i kill the first one damage-less 2 more times, or if i get to the second pair again

after i get one of those im going to bed since its midnight

yeah i have to keep practicing too

[mighty girder]

Yo question about a major glitch

https://clips.twitch.tv/TemperedFlirtyAntelopeCclamChamp-Ds7Vg93pln4rTFd_

I clearly got control early here lol

[frigid rapids]

yes

[mighty girder]

but since I went back, would I be DQed for this? it seems like the rules say maybe not

since I didn't gain anything and I went back to where I would normally gain control

[frigid rapids]

#srcom-discussion message

idk how your case will be treated but it is disallowed yeah

[mighty girder]

k good to know

also I didn't use nail art, just Cdash, which nobody ever mentions

[frigid rapids]

Cdash can give you early control yeah

[mighty girder]

can you like, charge up cdash, then release it when you stand up? you would technically be charging early, which gives you an "advantage" but you're not actually moving anywhere

[frigid rapids]

it's not a matter of moving, it's a matter of having control

so no you can't

[mighty girder]

ok I feel like I've seen people do that, so I wanted to make sure

thanks for clearing that up!

[frigid rapids]

you're probably thinking of people charging a nailart, which is the way you get early control in All Skills

but you get control of the character only when releasing that nail art

and to be accurate, it's because this early control results in the knight being invisible that it's banned

there are other instances of early control which are allowed because the knight doesn't turn invisible

[mighty girder]

hmm interesting

I'm just gonna not press anything until he stands up lmao

[glossy dirge]

Who can show me the switch record?

[normal aspen]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/y91xx3km

[glossy dirge]

Thanks

[frigid rapids]

you can still interrupt the waking up animation with a nail art without turning invisible which is a small timesave, in the message link i sent you there's a video showing what is allowed exactly

[glossy dirge]

Like how do I see the switch runs?

[normal aspen]

There is a tab for console runs

And then in that tab is one for switch

Can then sort by category

[frigid rapids]

just click the name of the category under the video in the link insomnia sent you

[glossy dirge]

Then I choose what gane

And I click on hollow knight

And that's it?

[digital jewel]

Google drive is not a great choice. We'd prefer if you uploaded to YouTube, twitch, bilibili etc

[glossy dirge]

So this is it?

I clicked on switch and I chose hollow knight and it derected me to that

Thanks

I just was dumb lmao

[turbid crystal]

Wait, is it allowed to have socd but only for left right?

[haughty fossil]

yes, there is a keyboard SOCD cleaner in #resources

on controller you can get the same effect by overriding joystick input with dpad input

[turbid crystal]

Yeah but, is it allowed to basically mix non socd w and s, but socd a d

idk how to put it

[normal aspen]

Yes

[turbid crystal]

ight thanks

[haughty fossil]

iirc that SOCD cleaner is only l/r

[turbid crystal]

its not

[normal aspen]

Don't think so

[turbid crystal]

Its really throwing me off with the jumps lmao

[haughty fossil]

oh

[normal aspen]

Wait what why do u habe jump bound to look u0

[turbid crystal]

used to brawlhalla binds

[normal aspen]

How do u upslash

[turbid crystal]

left shift lmao

i have weird controls

[normal aspen]

Wack af

[turbid crystal]

but theyre super comfy for me (though takes a while to get used to)

id rather have all movement on one hand

in the same spot

really the only issue is controlling menus

[snow dome]

That's real weird, and I want to try it

[turbid crystal]

ah shit its C code

time to figure out how to compile this magic and make it work

[whole rivet]

i finally beat failed champ

[jagged vault]

#hk-discussion unless it's speedrun related (note that discussions about the speedrunning achievments also goes there, this channel is for discussion about competitive speedrunning)

[loud jackal]

speedrunning is a lot harder than it looks

[small magnet]

It makes me cry a little

[raven pumice]

hey i got a question, is there horizontal movement acceleration in this game? so like when you're standing still and start moving left or right, do you get top running speed instantly?

[small magnet]

If you start moving from a standstill you immediately reach running speed

[raven pumice]

cool thanks

[small magnet]

yup yup!

[jagged vault]

yeah, i believe it's almost instant

not quite immediately, but the speed up is very very rapid

if it were instant it would look quite jarring

[small magnet]

Yeah, maybe it's not quite instant, but if it isn't it's not even noticeable in the debugger info. To my dumb boi eyes it goes straight from 0 to 8.3

[steady lynx]

Main thing is that it resets to 0 on loads so we tend to cdash through loads when applicable

[high kraken]

does jumping and slashing into a ceiling give you more speed than just walking to the right?

[normal aspen]

not upslashing nah

u can do nail turnaround stuff tho

[high kraken]

what so hitting enemies from behind after jumping over them?

[jagged vault]

or walls

[normal aspen]

shit like this would be used tons in a tas

hittig walls

[jagged vault]

it gives a tiny tiny speed boost

[normal aspen]

(assuming ur the tas person right)

[high kraken]

yes i am

[jagged vault]

i think it saves from 0.03 to 0.05 per usage

[steady lynx]

It's generally not used much because in most cases the boost would get lost to turning around

[small magnet]

Wow, yeah. That actually almost increases speed by 50%

For like... a fraction of a second

But, it is a boost

[high kraken]

so its best to just walk to the right?

[normal aspen]

thing is ur turnarounds need to be insane

but not a problem for a tas

[high kraken]

jumping doesnt give speed nor does slashing right?

[small magnet]

Right

[steady lynx]

Nope

[normal aspen]

slashing a wall behind u does

[high kraken]

unless you hit something from the side

yeah yeah

[normal aspen]

yeah

but otherwise its just ppl fuckin around

[harsh mason]

only time jumping gives speed is WALK_ZONE

[normal aspen]

the only time jumping is better is dirtmouth coz there is a slow zone

[high kraken]

okay and hitting breakable walls is best to do upwards right?

[harsh mason]

like dirtmouth

doesn't really matter until last hit

you should do sideways because more range

you only do upwards to avoid pushback

[high kraken]

i mean the doors like in kings pass

[harsh mason]

doesn't really matter

if you time it correct you get no pushback

[steady lynx]

Just do whatever on it

[harsh mason]

even from a side slash

[high kraken]

dont you get knockback?

oh okay

[normal aspen]

if u do it right

ppl normally just upslash coz its easier

[high kraken]

is it just do it as early as possible

ah okay

[normal aspen]

if its gonna be multiple hits u start with a side slash so u can hit it asap, and end on an upslash so ur not puished back

[small magnet]

Yeah, the only place I even know where to sideslash with no knockback is the door in KP lol

[high kraken]

and in current patch theres nothing you can do to avoid the giant drop at the start and the stun after falling right?

[normal aspen]

nope

[harsh mason]

lure a fly over

[high kraken]

how optimal

[normal aspen]

TAS CP KP is prob a 55

[high kraken]

the worst part to tas was the menuing

so i have decided AG is

not fun

[normal aspen]

HK menus are uhhhhhh

not good

[harsh mason]

you should just superslide across

[high kraken]

its the fucking desyncs

[normal aspen]

CP
Superslide

[high kraken]

its more needy than a newborn child

[harsh mason]

does qol not reenable them

shit mod if it doesnt

[normal aspen]

i assumed it wasnt with qol

[high kraken]

i dont have mods installed

whats superslide?

[harsh mason]

well then ag would be really boring on cp

its just ng+

[normal aspen]

CP AG is CP MMS so u dont superslide anyway

[high kraken]

mms?

[normal aspen]

u noclip and use bench storage

[harsh mason]

main menu storage

[meager current]

the storage of the main menu

[high kraken]

yeah thats what i meant by dont want to do ag

cos tasing menuing is

cringe

i did not realise how fucking annoying it is

[harsh mason]

superslide is pausing the same frame a knockback and a hitstun effect start

[high kraken]

so cursed

[harsh mason]

the pause unpauses the hitstun, but doesn't unpause your physics updates

so you just get pushed by the pushback every frame without slowing down

[high kraken]

nice

is that the patch everyone uses for nmg?

[harsh mason]

ag is on 1.0.2.8

nmg is on 1.2.2.1

[normal aspen]

Superslides r major

[harsh mason]

superslides are probably doable on 1221

[normal aspen]

pre sure ye

[high kraken]

but AG is menuing anyway so

no

just no

[harsh mason]

you can oob with a superslide so its not allowed

[normal aspen]

NMMS is also an option

but TASing 1028 in general just seems like pain

[high kraken]

can we just collectively agree to not use menus ever in video games

[harsh mason]

if libtas fixes the framerate

[high kraken]

yes it does

[harsh mason]

glitches may not even be viable

[high kraken]

well you can do variable framerate

where you can manually change the fps

at specific times

[harsh mason]

then you should be going to 0fps to break the game

and super high fps to break the game too

[meager current]

[high kraken]

would that be in current patch?

[normal aspen]

yeah u should be getting 1 attack uumuu if u can change frame rate

[harsh mason]

the games coded like shit in every patch, so yes

[high kraken]

i love how everyone just hates the game its great

well mainly the devs

[normal aspen]

🍝

[meager current]

i love hk's code
its so easy to break

[small magnet]

If I hated the game I sure wouldn't put hundreds of hours into it. Doesn't mean there aren't complaints though

[normal aspen]

petition for the tas to do tas route

[steady lynx]

Fury?

[high kraken]

tas route?

[normal aspen]

might actually be faster for CP anyway

It skips cdash by doing some fucked skips to ismas

[high kraken]

yeah i feel like fury of the fallen would be super op only issue is it takes ages to get right?

[steady lynx]

Yeah that's probably faster

[normal aspen]

that or overcharm soul catcher

[high kraken]

overcharm is a must lol

[normal aspen]

TAS route would be overcharmed with dashmaster anyway\

[high kraken]

like literally why wouldnt you

what am i gonna do get hit

tbf with superslides, could be viable

[normal aspen]

u wouldnt do slides in nmg

[high kraken]

what about a new category called, delete menus

[normal aspen]

aslo if u do superslides fury is even slower to get since a slide is used to skip the crumble floor

[high kraken]

do you skip floor with a mosquito

not mosquito

[normal aspen]

nah u just superslide over for nmms / ag

[high kraken]

flying bug thing

[steady lynx]

Menuless is essentially benchless but without inventory drops

[high kraken]

no i mean

no i just mean menu

not inv

anything that changes the game in such a way that its not deterministic

and also that savestates cant load across them

[normal aspen]

nmg u dont skip crumble floor coz luring fly loses more time than it saves

[high kraken]

is menu storage still in current patch?

[normal aspen]

tbh if ur gonna do this u do it segmented for each quitout coz menus r fucked

yeah, its different tho

[high kraken]

yes but idk how to even do that

it took ages to load a file

and its still not synced correctly with the other guy im working with

something loses 6f

somehow

[jagged vault]

Main menu storage is still in current patch yes

Watch a TE AG run to see how it could be used

[high kraken]

TE?

[jagged vault]

Pretty much ng+ through godhome save

True Ending

[high kraken]

ah

[normal aspen]

u cant use it for a lot of the more powerful applications, but you can get godmaster equipment in a new save so that outweighs it for some cats

[high kraken]

wait does menu storage need a precompleted file?

[normal aspen]

no

[harsh mason]

no thats against the rules

you need setup included

[high kraken]

okay

[harsh mason]

you use a gg save

[normal aspen]

gor godhome mms u need godseeker mode unlocked tho

[harsh mason]

that comes with everything unlocked

[jagged vault]

Godseeker mode

Yeah

[high kraken]

i have not played the game enough to know what that is

whats godseeker mode?

[normal aspen]

starts u in godhome with everything but dreamers

[loud jackal]

its a mode that puts you in godhome with all abilities and bosses unlocked

[normal aspen]

basically ng+

[high kraken]

is it accessable from first opening the game?

[loud jackal]

no

[normal aspen]

no

[high kraken]

thank fuck

because that means its not viable

[normal aspen]

it is permanently once u unlock it

[harsh mason]

it is

because thats the category

[high kraken]

no i mean

do people who run it start from a completely fresh save

[normal aspen]

yes

[high kraken]

like game

[harsh mason]

its like a steel soul run

[high kraken]

so they delete all data and restart the game?

is there any reason its not possible on a game that has just been installed?

[normal aspen]

coz u need to unlock it

[harsh mason]

it isn't stored in saves

[high kraken]

oh right okay

[harsh mason]

its a registry edit

[normal aspen]

but the p5 tas did it so it shouldnt be impossibe to sync off of a non fresh install

[high kraken]

i dont think it was a non fresh install

also the p5 person dual boots linux

i dont

i use wsl2

[harsh mason]

i dont even know how linux does permanent save data stuff

on windows its HKEY_CURRENT_USER>Software>Team Cherry>Hollow Knight>(random base64 keys)

[high kraken]

is grimm's dlc?

im confused by that

[harsh mason]

what

[high kraken]

i remember seeing dlc for grimms troupe

[small magnet]

The soundtrack? o.o

[normal aspen]

its included in updates

coz it was free

[high kraken]

ohh wow i have a smooth brain

okay im gonna try do a kings pass tas

and worry about everything else after

one thing tho, are the flying bugs rng?

[small magnet]

Yup

[high kraken]

fucking why

[normal aspen]

everything is rng

[high kraken]

so if you slightly change inputs it will be completely different

[normal aspen]

flying bugs are also fps dependant but assume u fixed that

[small magnet]

From what I've heard it can be controlled by keeping the system clock consistent?

[harsh mason]

i dont think rng is based on inputs

[high kraken]

im keeping fixed 60fps

[harsh mason]

just seeded based on system time, and number of rng calls

[high kraken]

yeah but its the number of rng calls that concerns me

[harsh mason]

which i guess yeah if you moved differently so more or less rng calls happen

[high kraken]

when is rng called?

[harsh mason]

probably all the time

[high kraken]

yeah thats what i meant

its seeded based on systime

which is fixed

but then depending on how many calls there are

and when the calls happen

so those 3 frames will prob cause a desync

maybe

theres only one acc rng based thing in kings pass right?

but is it acc rng dependant?

[normal aspen]

rng softfall too

[high kraken]

that fly thing

softfall?

[small magnet]

Soft fall is controllable

[normal aspen]

after the crumble floor sometimes u get a hardfall

sometimes u dont

[small magnet]

Oh, yeah, if you're just hoping to get lucky lol

I guess that's RNG

[high kraken]

can you first frame jump?

[normal aspen]

its controllable but that loses time, the rng version is about 0.2 faster

[high kraken]

on landing

[normal aspen]

no

[high kraken]

why

would you do that

[normal aspen]

coz 🍝

[high kraken]

they must have intentionally coded it so you cant

[harsh mason]

i think thats fps controllable

[high kraken]

why would you code it that way

ffs

[harsh mason]

they couldn't intentionally code themselves a hello world app

[high kraken]

how did they make such a good game thats also terrible i dont understand

[harsh mason]

because good art and music

has nothing to do with code quality?

[high kraken]

yes but good art and music is clearly not the only appeal of the game

[hardy crown]

I mean

[normal aspen]

when the game was made none of them were actually codeders

[hardy crown]

It kinda is.

Considering how shit the code is

lol

[normal aspen]

they didnt get one til like lifeblood

[loud jackal]

i understand almost 0 of this conversation

[snow dome]

It feels good to play on a general level. The snap on the actions and things like that really make it pop. The way the movement works is really nice.

[high kraken]

is that fly pogo in kings pass rng dependant

[small magnet]

Because if you don't play the game in a SR capacity it's incredibly enjoyable and the issues are essentially not noticeable at all to 99% of players

[snow dome]

But the glitches are not why I enjoyed it.

[normal aspen]

the spawn pos is rng

[high kraken]

thats true

why is the spawn rng

why

just

ughhhhhhhh

[harsh mason]

i mean the issues are noticeable if you press all the buttons

[grizzled maple]

because this is hk

[weary root]

[harsh mason]

like the button that makes you invincible and do like 5 nail hits of damage

[grizzled maple]

and nothing is consistent ever. including your own dash length

[harsh mason]

i like that button really well designed

[normal aspen]

We say u can't TAS hk for a reason

[high kraken]

what?

what button

[harsh mason]

quick cast whilst holding down

[normal aspen]

ddark button lol

[harsh mason]

really well thought out button

10/10

[high kraken]

oh right

yeah that ability

[short spire]

um actually its more like 18 hits

definitely balanced

[harsh mason]

i was being fair, and giving the player nail4

[high kraken]

how much soul does it use?

[harsh mason]

33

[weary root]

yeah imagine upgading your nail

[tough breach]

18 assuming you hit only one enemy

[harsh mason]

so like 1-3 hits depending on charms

[high kraken]

i mean like if healing is 1 soul

[tough breach]

Can easily get a hot 35 on wk

[harsh mason]

oh and 24 if you have the reduced cost

[high kraken]

how many heals is 1 ddark worth

[short spire]

healing is 33 soul

[loud jackal]

healing is also 33

[normal aspen]

1:1

[high kraken]

wow

balanced

[snow dome]

...

[harsh mason]

remember when fluke did 144 damage

[high kraken]

it literally costs the same as the first spell in the game?

[harsh mason]

so you could kill radiance so fast it broke the fsm

[snow dome]

They all cost the same

[weary root]

tbf it's pretty useless against enemies in the air

[jagged vault]

sasha the enemies scale up somewhat to match in the late game

[harsh mason]

they cost the same so the ui can show white at 33% always

which is stupid because the charm that reduces cost doesn't reflect ui correctly

[snow dome]

Like, saw coming in here saying "I'm going to TAS this game!" out of nowhere after multiple people have tried and you don't even know how the game works feels a bit... I dunno if insulting is the word but yaknow

[loud jackal]

whats tas

[jagged vault]

Tool Assisted Speedrun

[high kraken]

i didnt say i wanted to do it by myself

[loud jackal]

what is a tool assisted speedrun?

[high kraken]

im working with the person who made the p5 tas

[grizzled maple]

something like p5 is a lot more realistic since the segments are so short

[small magnet]

Played by a computer essentially. Coded inputs for the most optimal run possible

[high kraken]

also the things with the dash length stuff is fixed by setting the framerate

and can be broken by setting it

idk how yet

[hardy crown]

Oh boy

[loud jackal]

ok

[hardy crown]

If you think setting the framerate actually makes the framerate consistent in this game

You are in for a surprise.

[grizzled maple]

this tbh

[jagged vault]

a TAS is a speedrun where you can use different tool to assist you in getting a faster run. for example, TASes are used to create "perfect" speedruns through RNG seeding, slowdowns, input recording and playback

[grizzled maple]

i mean. like okay

[loud jackal]

given how much rng this game has i dont think that will work

[high kraken]

the rng isnt rng

[grizzled maple]

if you're going to say, do a segmented run room by room. that's the best you're going to get.

you won't be able to make something like a true TAS that runs itself

[high kraken]

um yes you can

libtas sets systime

[hardy crown]

Not with this game, no.

[harsh mason]

you cant even get a menu to sync

[high kraken]

you can

[short spire]

i mean the p5 tas does literally do that

[high kraken]

if you frame advance in certain places

[snow dome]

This is the attitude I'm talking about

[short spire]

like run by itself

[snow dome]

People have tried. This game is four years old in two weeks.

[jagged vault]

tami they are correct though

[high kraken]

yeah well, idc about that

also it could

on a powerful enough pc

[snow dome]

How do you get around the fact that the first vengefly could be anywhere

[jagged vault]

the rng in the game is set by system time, which can be manipulated by libtas if i understand it correctly

[high kraken]

because rng is seeded

so it wont be random

well it is

[jagged vault]

it's a recent discovery

[high kraken]

but its consistent

[jagged vault]

which is why the p5 tas came out recently and not years ago

[high kraken]

yes you set systime at the start when you boot the game

[harsh mason]

its not really recent, its known thats how unity prng works

[high kraken]

also you can manually set the prng seed

[jagged vault]

yeah i don't know the exact details of it my b

[harsh mason]

its just not really super relevant, because # rng calls isn't necessarily consistent

so changing stuff can desync everything else

[high kraken]

it is if you do the same inputs

but you see, i did dashless water movement in celeste

which doesnt sound bad

but is acc the worst

[harsh mason]

celeste is deterministic though

unity is not

[high kraken]

yes but dashless water movement desyncs if you change anything even slightly

[jagged vault]

celeste and hollow knight are very different in structure mainly due to engine

[high kraken]

its all analog movement with awful turning

it should be deterministic if the seed is the same?

thats what kilaye said anyway

[dreamy bough]

surely if you cap at 1 fps everything should be consistent, right? right? :)

[normal aspen]

i mean test it out and report back, best way to know is by doing it

[harsh mason]

well when i tased celeste, everything worked fine except reflection

so everything in hk works fine except reflection chapter

and i hate that chapter in hk so good riddance

[high kraken]

what about reflection?

[harsh mason]

what about it

it literally didn't work when i tased it

[high kraken]

wdym it didnt work fine?

like it didnt load?

[steady lynx]

Really glad speedruns skip reflection in Hollow Knight

[harsh mason]

it desync'd due to badelines animation and position being based on render updates not physics

you do realize im the person who made the original tas for celeste right?

[high kraken]

no

[loud jackal]

wait which part is reflection in hk?

[high kraken]

i was gonna say that mustve been a while ago

did you go by a different alias?

[harsh mason]

KDT

[jagged vault]

awesome sauce they're joking

[high kraken]

ohhh

[loud jackal]

ok

[high kraken]

damn youre og pretty sweet

how come you stopped?

[harsh mason]

burnt and didnt agree with how the tas was published / credited by devil/gdq

[digital jewel]

gdq and uncredited TAS runs

name a better duo

[high kraken]

fuck gdq

[steady lynx]

If you're lucky you get credited in the description

[high kraken]

well if youre ever interested the community is very different now

[hearty adder]

Gdq and uncredited TAS runs go hand in hand like gdq and not saying what category the runner is playing

[steady lynx]

It's ESA but worse

[snow dome]

Can't tell if meme

[jagged vault]

[Game] by Various runners

[snow dome]

I watched my first ESA recently

[jagged vault]

Games Done Quick is the biggest speedrunning marathon event

[snow dome]

Hyper Light Drifter any% NMG alt drifter

Real good to watch

Runner died at one point lol

Still beat whatever time I would've got.

[high kraken]

[game] played by tasbot presented by people who have sunk literally thousands of hours into tasing dwangoac

[harsh mason]

i would only come back to finish my all max variants tas

[high kraken]

wait i was literally doing that

well not all max

just variants

so all the fast ones

it is basically just 360 dash chaining

i mean thats fair anyway

btw is taking knockback from enemies worth it?

[harsh mason]

time it

[digital jewel]

it's not

[harsh mason]

rta no

[jagged vault]

it's not

[high kraken]

for a tas lads

for a tas

[jagged vault]

tiny bit slower

[harsh mason]

but if you can fuck with framerate

[snow dome]

It is if you are going to take damage anyway.

[harsh mason]

you might be able to marginally faster, by keeping the 0 frame speed longer

[hardy crown]

Taking knockback from enemies is mega worth

Especially if you hit 0 hp

[high kraken]

optimal

[hardy crown]

Because then you have an excuse to end the run and start a new one

[high kraken]

also optimal

[snow dome]

Death warp

I wish death warping was a thing in speedruns

[loud jackal]

there is that one skip where you need to use your shade

[digital jewel]

sasha have you watched any speedruns of the game

[high kraken]

death warp to the delete save button to reset the run faster

[high kraken]

yes

i just have a bad memory

also ive seen lots of niche runs

[snow dome]

Yeah, shade skips are cool and I like them, but actual death warps would be cool

[normal aspen]

a video will probably help u more than askinag about every aspect

[steady lynx]

I tried it a bit for console but it's just never worth it

[snow dome]

Invalidated by s/q mainly

[high kraken]

which makes it easy to get confused about which strats are used where

[snow dome]

Yeah the RTA could be a thing.

[loud jackal]

quitting and re-entering is quicker isnt it?

[snow dome]

But like... If you timed it

[hearty adder]

Ending the game casually once will also probably help you understand it more

[high kraken]

the only issue is that i dont want to miss cool tas stuff

[high kraken]

menuing cringe

[snow dome]

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's not a thing.

[normal aspen]

like i say just do kp and go from there

[high kraken]

i know i should

[steady lynx]

Mostly gets annoying to do bosses with cracked soul meter

[high kraken]

its a long game tho

[snow dome]

It's less than 33m, what do you mean?

[high kraken]

first time

playing

well not first

but first completion

[snow dome]

I appreciate your excitement

[harsh mason]

if you have any queries about what is or isn't faster, you have the best tools to check

[steady lynx]

I'd also kinda hate death warps in 112 since it means no steel soul

[high kraken]

the reason i stopped was brooding mawlek? is that how you spell it

[snow dome]

But plz just try a regular speedrun to get a feel for what a good one involves.

[high kraken]

the thing is i actively dont like rta running myself, i never really liked it in celeste either

[jagged vault]

sasha if you want to tas, we recommend you at least finish the game first to learn more about what you're working with

[high kraken]

what could changing the framerate acc do?

[high kraken]

okay ill try kp and then look at finishing the game

[loud jackal]

whats kp?

[high kraken]

kings pass

[loud jackal]

ah

of course

[harsh mason]

game logic is split in 2

[high kraken]

the reason i stopped at mawlek was purely because it took so long to get back and then id just die in the first 30 seconds

[steady lynx]

KP

[harsh mason]

certain things update once per frame, other things happen x times per frame depending on frame duration

so if you have a really long frame, it can do something say 5 times instead of 1 time, before the velocities get updated again

[high kraken]

is there a way that maniping framerate in current patch would obsolete the time it takes to set up menu storage?

[high kraken]

or 100 times

[harsh mason]

i believe its capped

[high kraken]

dang

also the thing about obsoleting mms?

is that possible?

[digital jewel]

I don't understand the question

[high kraken]

as in

[harsh mason]

mms completely breaks the game

[high kraken]

could you use changing the framerate to bypass the need to set up mms

[digital jewel]

no what

[harsh mason]

so no you probably cant go faster than that with another glitch

[digital jewel]

those two things aren't even related

[jagged vault]

if you want to make an optimal TAS you have to use the optimal strategies, wether that is MMS or not

[high kraken]

true

its just menuing is cursed

extremely cursed

[normal aspen]

Seriously just say NMG ruleset and do it segmented on quitouts or something

[digital jewel]

mms lets you start the game with full items. if you can do that with just manipulating framerate I'd be very impressed

[high kraken]

i meant like

if you can mess with framerate to get loads of speed and just clip to hollow knight fight

[digital jewel]

please

[harsh mason]

lmao

[snow dome]

Do you know where that is?

[loud jackal]

that

no

[harsh mason]

thats a good one

[high kraken]

just blj

[snow dome]

Spoiler alert for the end of HK incoming

[hardy crown]

Oh shit why didn't we consider bljs

[meager current]

How does one clip to areas that aren't loaded 👀

[high kraken]

oh its not loaded fuck

in celeste

theres areas that teleport you

[jagged vault]

this isn't celeste

[hardy crown]

This ain't celeste.

[high kraken]

but theyre stored on the same map

i know

[meager current]

Or just preload the game

[loud jackal]

very much not celeste

[harsh mason]

this game has no map

[high kraken]

but i thought it might work celeste

what

[normal aspen]

U can store the door interaction to get into black egg

[hearty adder]

Another reason to finish the game casually at least once, lol

[high kraken]

but the map

[harsh mason]

rooms are only loaded when you hit a transition trigger

[snow dome]

This isn't Celeste!

Felt left out, sorry. 😔

[thorn jasper]

so we can skip the need to have 70 power stars and go straight to saving the princess, right?

[harsh mason]

its why you only ever see one room at a time

[high kraken]

exactly yes

[harsh mason]

unlike in celeste where the camera slides from one room to the next

rooms in hk work like entities do in celeste

[high kraken]

but in celeste walls are loaded and nothing else is

[snow dome]

This isn't Celeste

[high kraken]

thought it might work the same in terms of collision but ig not

i know

again celeste is also not the only game you can do that in

[loud jackal]

does anyone have the patience to set up a this isnt celeste bot?

[snow dome]

This is not other games

[high kraken]

omg

[snow dome]

That are also not Celeste

[high kraken]

there are going to be some similarities

[harsh mason]

you are in green room and you hit red trigger

then it deletes green room and spawns red room over it

[high kraken]

right okay

[snow dome]

KATIE PAINT LET'S GOOOOO

[high kraken]

mmc it is

[small magnet]

That's the most beautiful painting I've ever seen

[high kraken]

its a new acronym

[loud jackal]

i mean thats clearly more of a lime than a green

[snow dome]

Massive Moss Charger

[bitter moat]

mossyPet

[high kraken]

main menu cringe

[harsh mason]

heres you in the red room

[jagged vault]

mossyPet

[hearty adder]

There are some cursed very big rooms in patches prior to lifeblood dlc

[hardy crown]

Wait

Does the character still stay in the previous room

The character is still green

[harsh mason]

yes

[meager current]

1221 watchers spire

[normal aspen]

You turn into a loadzone

[harsh mason]

actually no, the hero is dontdestroyonload

so its actually the same knight at all times

which is why i didnt change the colour

[high kraken]

hollow knight but every time you screen transition you unload

[hearty adder]

Precisely the cursed very big room I was thinking about

[hardy crown]

If every load you switched out a strand from the cloak the knight is wearing then after a full run is it still the same knight?

[meager current]

[loud jackal]

yes

because the cloak isnt part of the knight

[normal aspen]

Literally Zeno's paradox lol

[harsh mason]

did you not notice this game had loading screens btw

[hardy crown]

Ship of Theseus mate

[frigid rapids]

glad TC was kind enough to prevent me from thinking too much about teletransportation paradox

[hardy crown]

Zeno's paradox is something else

[high kraken]

no i did

[jagged vault]

some lore people would disagree

[harsh mason]

its like asking if you can blj from city to core

[normal aspen]

Yeah that's the halving one I'm stupid

[loud jackal]

xeno's paradox is the turtle thing isnt it

[hardy crown]

Zeno's paradox is that to finish a 112% I first have to finish half a 112% and we all know I can't do that so clearly I can never finish a 112%

[meager current]

Ship of Theseus is if you take part of a ship and replace it is it the same ship

[high kraken]

wait you cant

kappa

[normal aspen]

Well say Zenos paradox so I can say it's literally Zenos paradox

[harsh mason]

no only from prologue to core

and it involves standing on a car

[hardy crown]

Literally posted it before ins0mnia asked, I am a time traveller

[loud jackal]

there are cars in celeste?

[haughty fossil]

no duh its like asking if you can superslide from city to core

[high kraken]

intro car finally gets the love it deserves

[loud jackal]

oh

that car

[high kraken]

you can walk left and enter a cheat code

[meager current]

Ye Madeline can drive apparently

[high kraken]

unlocks all levels

[meager current]

Even though I thought they were like 13 years old from how they look

[snow dome]

Just drive up the mountain

Problem solved

[jagged vault]

no madeline is an adultt

[normal aspen]

They just can't drive a car twice coz she's really bad at it

[loud jackal]

would that make an evil car too?

[jagged vault]

this is steering very off topic

[meager current]

Car puns

[harsh mason]

does the car have inner demons

[jagged vault]

like a car

[snow dome]

It would act as a Faraday cage against having dysphoria I think

Meme

[loud jackal]

a faraday cage?

[snow dome]

Image of Madeline in the car and the tag line "Me, driving away from my problems"

[normal aspen]

Timezones tho, so it's a Faranight cage here

[loud jackal]

...

[thorn jasper]

was the pun too shocking?

[harsh mason]

if the mountain and the journey is metaphorical, then so is the car 🤔
the car is used to cheat to the end and win fast
the car is a metaphor for how cheaters win

really deep if you think about it

[loud jackal]

what is wrong with you people and your bad puns

[small magnet]

genius puns*

[snow dome]

You mean buns?

Bad puns

[harsh mason]

puns

what do you call a crocodile that only says hey listen?
a navigator

[snow dome]

My phone is at 69% battery

[small magnet]

nice

[normal aspen]

That's a new one to me Katie

[loud jackal]

pun%

[small magnet]

I was wondering why the ball was getting bigger. Then it hit me

[loud jackal]

why

[small magnet]

What do you call an alligator in a vest? An investigator

[loud jackal]

everyone is secretly an alligator

[small magnet]

Anyway. Back on topic. My PB has my gold VS, so every run I do now starts with a red split and it makes me cry every time

[loud jackal]

ouch

[jagged vault]

Having good earlygame in PB can be a bit demotivating yeah

[thorn jasper]

• Serious answer: I agree with Blue
• Helpful trick I use: change the behind time to blue - it's less scary than red

[small magnet]

Blue sounds calming and peaceful. I like it :3

[jagged vault]

Blue

[haughty fossil]

this was funnier in my head

[jagged vault]

But yeah rekinn, just try to remember that there’s still timesave later and push through, you can do it!

[small magnet]

Yeah, it will be ok! It's just that the more I improve my PB the harder it is to get a PB lol

When you're still brand new and just trying to improve on a 1h 8m run it feels like you're improving so fast after that

[haughty fossil]

change comparison to balanced, it's insane how much of a difference it makes to early game imo

[small magnet]

That's actually not a bad idea either. Comparing to how I normally perform (on average) actually sounds really beneficial also.

[jagged vault]

Balanced needs a bunch of finished runs to work properly, no?

[small magnet]

Aside from the mental upside of not getting a red on every VS run

That would make sense too. I think I only have like 15 completed runs :X

[loud jackal]

better than my 0 🙂

[small magnet]

You'll get there :3 Keep practicing and once you feel comfortable with the route, run it beginning to end and don't worry about time!

[jagged vault]

Awesome sauce when you’re starting out just pushing through and finishing a run is a great idea, it lets you het a feel for the route while also highlighting what you need to practice the most

[loud jackal]

thanks

ok

[jagged vault]

Also gives you something to compare to

[fair island]

is it allowed to pause the timer to like take a break?

[jagged vault]

No

Pausing the timer will invalidate your run for the leaderboards

[small magnet]

Indeed. The great thing about speedrunning is the self competition. It doesn't matter where you land on the leaderboards or anything. Just keep trying to do better than you did a week ago!

[jagged vault]

^

You can choose what it means to you. Whether that is competing against the game, yourself or others. As long as you’re having fun you’re doing something right!

[haughty fossil]

correction; pausing the timer will result in a penalty equal to the time spent paused (but is also unacceptable so don't make mods have to manually time stuff they don't like that)

[jagged vault]

Oh wow i didn’t know that jamie

TIL

still yeah don’t do it

[haughty fossil]

(but don't do it deliberately, mods don't want to have to pull out frame timing on a pc run )

[small magnet]

Go for a pee before starting your run. If your run is taking so long you can't hold it, then I doubt the 45 seconds it takes to use the bathroom and grab a water will be hugely detrimental

[loud jackal]

also is there a way to see autosplit whilst in the game?

[small magnet]

So, just leave the timer running in that case

[jagged vault]

Timesave for next

[haughty fossil]

second monitor or consider an overlay program like OnTopReplica

[small magnet]

Maybe I'll pee during my next VS for that sick VS timesave

[jagged vault]

That’s one way of fixing having a good earlygame in PB

[small magnet]

If my VS is 4:30 I'll always feel good with that -40.0 at the start of every run haha

[sonic crane]

7” monitor off amazon for livesplit

[harsh mason]

if you dont have a bladder you cant pee

[loud jackal]

you can

[small magnet]

Katie, please stop trying to speedrun urinating

[harsh mason]

ask your doctor about bladder removal surgery today

[loud jackal]

it would just constantly be streaming out of you

[harsh mason]

i have no reason to speedrun bodily functions

[loud jackal]

yet

[harsh mason]

i treat them like anything else important and ignore them

[small magnet]

@loud jackal what category you planning on running?

[snow dome]

Streaming my runs

[loud jackal]

Any%

Nmg

[high kraken]

is the spawning location of all enemies random?

[haughty fossil]

to some extent yes

[jagged vault]

Most are

Not sure on specifics

[steady lynx]

Depends on patch for most

[high kraken]

because it seems like the beetle at the start of kings pass shouldnt be random

[haughty fossil]

they're more consistent on cp, but doing tas on cp is 🥴

[high kraken]

well thats what im doing rn

[steady lynx]

I think that beetle has two starting positions

[high kraken]

why

[steady lynx]

🍝

[high kraken]

and how far apart are they?

[loud jackal]

Cherry spaghetti?

[fair island]

Code spaghetti

[haughty fossil]

team cherry spaghetti is the general term for the unstructured mess that is the codebase for this game

[loud jackal]

Ah

[steady lynx]

This is a game that really doesn't want to be speedran

[loud jackal]

And so we decided to speedrun it

[steady lynx]

naturally

[high kraken]

my main concern is that i know that the menuing is sub optimal, not only because theres some weird lag on my end and not on someone elses but also because i didnt use the mouse

[loud jackal]

God I wish you the best of luck with this

It does not sound fun

[small magnet]

Sounds like an exercise in futility

[high kraken]

i feel like theres certain parts that will be very fun and certain parts that will be a nightmare

[fair island]

Are there any other common reasons to get runs rejected other than the mods being loaded, menu screen not shown

[high kraken]

but tbh i think its mostly a learning curve

[loud jackal]

Cheating

[haughty fossil]

look at the rules on speedrun.com

[high kraken]

the only reason im doing menuing is because i dont really have an option

[fair island]

I didn't find any more from there

[harsh mason]

audio?

[haughty fossil]

game rules

[fair island]

Well I guess I'm blind

[small magnet]

Maybe submitting via twitch vod or something non-permanent

[fair island]

I'm gonna get an eye test and come back

[loud jackal]

What qualifies as a major glitch?

[haughty fossil]

https://pastebin.com/VtzvMpyW

any glitch not specifically allowed in this doc

[loud jackal]

Ok

[high kraken]

is mouse used for anything other than the start of game menuing?

is it used in mms?

[haughty fossil]

yes

[fair island]

You can use arrow keys for menus

[jagged vault]

You don’t need mouse for start of game menuing

[haughty fossil]

(for mms)

[normal aspen]

mouse isnt even used in menuing for nmg. for mms its used for the mms tho

[small magnet]

I use mouse for deleting the game

[high kraken]

you can select stuff faster tho

i think

[jagged vault]

But yes mouse is used for mms menus

[normal aspen]

nah

[harsh mason]

you do use mouse right

you hold it over p2 slot

so you can just mash m1 to start game -> load save, after s+q

[normal aspen]

for older patches mouse is faster but on 1221 and stuff it resets mouse pos

but yeah 1028 does the mouse pos katie

[harsh mason]

oh yeah they did randomly change that

[normal aspen]

coz fuck speedrunnerzs

[haughty fossil]

hasn't mouse behaviour changed like 3 times 🥴

[high kraken]

resets mouse pos how?

[normal aspen]

it moves it to center each time

on older patches it persists

[high kraken]

every frame?

[jagged vault]

By resetting the cursor to the center of the screen

[normal aspen]

every time u pause ar quit to menu etc

like each menu

[jagged vault]

No every menu opening

[high kraken]

but for a tas you can just move it in one frame

[haughty fossil]

expecting hk to handle menus consistently

[loud jackal]

Expecting hk to handle anything consistently

[normal aspen]

expecting hk to handle

[small magnet]

expecting

[loud jackal]

e

[small magnet]

I love speedrunning this game, but I can't imagine how insanely frustrating it must be to be a WR contender

[loud jackal]

Yeah

[small magnet]

Hardcore at the mercy of the coding

[harsh mason]

you know how when you hold up+down, you look up, but dash down, but sideslash

or some variation of that

[loud jackal]

Pest fire and ax scare me

[harsh mason]

thats the good codebase right there

[small magnet]

There's so many great runners in this game. It's super spook

[loud jackal]

Ik

[small magnet]

Gives me insane motivation and depression at the same time

[loud jackal]

They all make it look so easy

[small magnet]

You should watch the comsob clips

[harsh mason]

anyone good at anything makes it look easy

[loud jackal]

True

[high kraken]

how do things like damage boosts and nail knockback work? do they add to your speed or do they set it to a specific speed?

[night imp]

When and where do I watch the tournament?

[normal aspen]

https://www.twitch.tv/speedgaming

[high kraken]

i havent found the memory addresses for those things yet

[fair island]

You can't really appreciate it until you try it

[harsh mason]

yes

just use dnspy

and the api

[night imp]

Thanks insomnia!

[high kraken]

i do not know how to do that

like at all

[loud jackal]

It’s a mod I believe

[high kraken]

dnspy is a decompiler

ive used it before but the issue is

[loud jackal]

Or not

[high kraken]

i cannot code

[loud jackal]

Ignore me then

[high kraken]

or read code

[harsh mason]

                if (this.cState.recoilingLeft)
                {
                    float num;
                    if (this.recoilLarge)
                    {
                        num = this.RECOIL_HOR_VELOCITY_LONG;
                    }
                    else
                    {
                        num = this.RECOIL_HOR_VELOCITY;
                    }
                    if (this.rb2d.velocity.x > -num)
                    {
                        this.rb2d.velocity = new Vector2(-num, this.rb2d.velocity.y);
                    }
                    else
                    {
                        this.rb2d.velocity = new Vector2(this.rb2d.velocity.x - num, this.rb2d.velocity.y);
                    }
                }

[high kraken]

okay what does that mean?

[small magnet]

if (installed.hollow.knight)
then (lay.on.ground)
(cry)

[harsh mason]

if( you're going slower than the knockback )
  vel = knockback
else
  vel += knockback

[high kraken]

okay so it adds thats nice

[harsh mason]

this code is fucking stupid

who wrote this

[loud jackal]

An infinite number of monkeys

They also wrote hamlet too

[high kraken]

wait so if i get hit by an enemy, then hit the enemy with the nail

do i get extra speed?

[fair island]

So if you get hit by a an attack in the same direction as you were walking you won't get knocked back?

[harsh mason]

getting hit removes control

[loud jackal]

You will

[harsh mason]

this is knockback from attacks