speedrunning

[digital jewel]

yeah try it

[sour flame]

Okay will report back

[digital jewel]

I don't get what this means though

[deft flame]

you might also try enabling or disabling steam input

but im not sure if that helps

[deft flame]

(right click the game, go to properties and then controller)

[sour flame]

Well I downpatched the game using the Depot, but I added the game to my library so I could just launch the game through Steam's big picture mode, as it was the only way I could get it to work when playing the game originally

[digital jewel]

ok

[sour flame]

I'll give that a try

[digital jewel]

that is downpatching your steam version

[sour flame]

Huh okay, cuz there's the way where you downpatch steam itself or smth

Those are the properties of the game so I don't think I can mess w the controller settings in there

[deft flame]

right, it probably doenst work because its an external game shortcut technically

[sour flame]

I'll give the ds4windows a go

[deft flame]

yeah ds4windows should definitely work

[sour flame]

It worked! Thanks for the quick fix :)))

[true hound]

how do i two-cycle uumuu? I used a guide, but the pattern (fireball nail nail fireball nail nail fireball nail nail fireball fireball) knocks uumuu off the edge of the platform too fast to land the last fireball nail nail

[quick meteor]

https://clips.twitch.tv/VictoriousQuaintWoodcockDancingBanana

neat

[ionic sparrow]

if you are on current patch, 2 cycle uumuu isn't really feasible. if you are on 1221, you are likely either not baiting uumuu far enough to one side/at the right height, or your nail -> vs casts are slow so you dont get the dps off in time

its a tight strat, takes alot more finesse and small things than is obvious

[true hound]

I'm on 1221. Uuwuu should be at the center of the platform right?

[ionic sparrow]

its a bit different for each person, i like uumuu to be pretty far in the opposite corner and pretty low, but other people like uumuu to be higher

from my experience, if uumuu is stuck in the middle it's moved way too far

[true hound]

Ah, I had it more to the middle. I got uumuu in the opposite direction a little more, and I had him in a perfect spot. But, his shell went back before I could doublehit with the second to last fireball. How do I optimize the time with my nail and vs casts so I can get the hits in?

[ionic sparrow]

you could also try doing vs -> 2x nail -> vs -> 3x nail -> vs -> nail -> 2x vs to see if that makes it easier at all

not really a secret to it, just keep trying to push it faster and faster and you'll get the muscle memory that way

[true hound]

thank you, I will try that!

[ionic sparrow]

just consciously try to go faster and you'll slowly get into the habit of buffering the inputs correctly

i wish there was a better way haha

[neon island]

Wait, did you mean 2-3-1 nails? nvm, I read that wrong

[ionic sparrow]

yes

[true hound]

allright, i suppose the only way is to practice

[ionic sparrow]

if you are still stuck, you can record an example fight and post it here

we'll prety quickly be able to tell you what you're doing wrong if we can see it

a bit harder to do just via text

[true hound]

alright, if im still stuck in ~15 minutes ill post a fight here, thank you!

[true hound]

how do i post a file here? it says max size is 100mb

[dull lion]

You could post it somewhere else like twitch or YouTube and link to it probably

[thorn jasper]

files are allowed, but they have to be smaller than 100mb. spicie's suggestion is good

[twin swallow]

how long is your video and why is it 100 MB 🤔

[harsh mason]

maybe its over 3 minutes

[thorn jasper]

I took a 45-second video of my cat and it was over 100mb

from my phone /shrug

[harsh mason]

on a phone it'll have terrible encoding

just run it through ffmpeg doing nothing and itll bring that down to like 1mb

[true hound]

allright ill link the youtube video here, one sec

[harsh mason]

ffmpeg -i <yourfile> -c:v libx264 -crf 18 -preset veryslow -c:a copy out.mp4
Change -crf 18 to like -crf 24 if you dont mind it being slightly lossy

[hearty adder]

because it has to process all the cuteness ofc

[thorn jasper]

people have linked their twitch here before while they are streaming. idk if we as community ever decided on etiquette

[deft flame]

i feel like that's probably something you could do on your own by watching top runners

[dull lion]

A lot of the tricks in this game are deceptively difficult, by looking at their footage it’s much easier for people to help than them watching a general guide that can’t get into the smaller minutia

1/2 cycle uumuu (depending on category) is a good example of that

[deft flame]

yeah that is true. but it'd be probably better / easier to get people to actually help if they posted clips of parts they think can improve than posting like an entire run

[dull lion]

Well yeah that was what he’s doing, posting a clip, I think

[deft flame]

oh I misunderstood then, thought he wanted someone to review an entire run, sorry

[dull lion]

No just two cycle uumuu for any%

[true hound]

https://youtu.be/-Q-K79wQq54 here we are

[dull lion]

I’m not an any% runner but it looks like you are fireballing really slow after your nail hits (unless this is intentional, like I said not an any% runner)You can shoot a fireball like immediately after your second nail if you’re using quick cast(you should be)

[deft flame]

you could vs much faster after nail hit

[hazy reef]

I just setup debug mod for 1.2.2.1, but it won't let me exit fullscreen mode. Any idea how to fix this?

[deft flame]

try to test outside the boss fight how fast you can VS after a nail hit and get that timing down

[limpid ruin]

alt + enter

[true hound]

i am (supposed) to vs really fast, ill try that

[digital jewel]

yep the position looks ok to me at a glance

you just need to get the combo down correctly

[deft thorn]

just curious, isn't libx264 the default if you just specify mp4 as output file?
because I usually just do -b:v 4M or something to get it down to whatever I need for displaying it here, since that allows me to just check in advance what bitrate is required for the length of the video to not exceed 100MB and then not worry about it anymore

[limpid ruin]

it requires nail-cancels, which are just hard to properly get down

[thorn jasper]

I think some folks, myself included, were conflating you and josef at first

[digital jewel]

the first fireball needs to be as soon as possible when uumuu becomes vulnerable and the nail, nail, fireball sequence needs to be practiced a lot

[true hound]

the sequence practiced outside of the fight? my main problem here is that he's too far away to get the final nail nail, and I lose time and he re-shells himself. some runner did upslashes on the first nail nail, is that advised?

[harsh mason]

-b:v and libx264 are unrelated

[true hound]

thank you!

[limpid ruin]

nah, the main problem is too slow dmg cycle

[harsh mason]

-crf and -b:v are the same thing

[limpid ruin]

fb as early as possible -> nail as early as possible etc

[true hound]

so, attack as early as possible

got it

[deft thorn]

hm, and does specifying libx264 do anything if your output format is already mp4? I thought that's implicit

[limpid ruin]

uumuu accelerates away while staggered, so the slower you attack, the more speed uumuu builds away from you

[harsh mason]

if your thing is already an mp4 but in another mp4 format

[true hound]

quick hits

[harsh mason]

i think it'll keep the current encoding

[deft thorn]

ah, I suppose that makes sense

[digital jewel]

I wouldn't recommend doing upslashes

maybe you can do that when you're more familiar with the timing

[true hound]

okay

[limpid ruin]

honestly, practice the timings outside of the fight as well

[digital jewel]

but right now the issue is 100% just your inputs not being fast enough. overcomplicating it isn't going to help with that

[limpid ruin]

like just the inputs

visualising what youre supposed to do helps brain learn a lot

[true hound]

hey i got the fireball nail nail part down 3 times

im going to practice inputs outside of fight

uumuu is being a bruh moment

its a lot of rng

[digital jewel]

not calling you out but getting the first cycle down should always be 100% consistent

[dull lion]

I assume they’re talking about extra attacks

[true hound]

well it's not for me, which is why I'm practicing the cycle

yes, the extra attack

oh you mean consistent rng

yeah

[dull lion]

If you just link to a stream clip I don’t see why there’d be a problem as long as you’re asking about something specific

What exactly are you struggling with on watchers?

[true hound]

rolling in?

could you post a fight? not really sure what you're talking abt

[digital jewel]

yes you can link videos in here

[formal bough]

I belive they were specifically suggesting that they livestream their attempts and people who know how to fight watcher knights could give them live tips?

[true hound]

how much time does two-cycling uumuu take?

as opposed to a 3-cycle

[dull lion]

I think it’s like 15-20 seconds. If you’re just starting don’t worry too much about it. You’ll save more time just by finishing runs and improving your movement

[digital jewel]

if it's livestreamed there'll be a recorded video

why not post a link to that

[true hound]

i can consistently land fireball nail nail fireball nail nail fireball nail nail just not the last two fireballs. is that enough for a 3-cycle even?

[limpid ruin]

You need the last two

[digital jewel]

interesting how are you getting the last 2 nails but not the fireballs?

[limpid ruin]

Three cycle works well with scuffed two cycles tho, bc it's still a decent chunk of dmg dealt

[true hound]

he closes up, fireball goes through him

[digital jewel]

if you're doing it too slow then uumuu will be out of the platform and you can't get the hits

[true hound]

i kinda have to jump to get the last two hits

[digital jewel]

ok that's why

[true hound]

so maybe i just screwed up

[digital jewel]

that makes sense

yes the timing is too tight for you to jump to get hits

sometimes if you're very clean with them you can get the cycle even if you have to jump for one hit

[true hound]

it's the second to last nail hit that pushes him off the platform

should i just bait him more to the left?

[digital jewel]

you can try being a bit more left and seeing if you're fast enough with your inputs to get it

[true hound]

okay, i will try that. how do i get him slightly more to the left? on the bottom platform, or on the center platform?

[digital jewel]

from your video though uumuu looked in an doable position

[deft flame]

how can i make livesplit show sum of best segments counted in loadless time?

mine just shows it in real time

[true hound]

then where did i go wrong in the video? just the speed of inputs?

[dull lion]

Yeah, getting inputs as fast as possible takes lots of practice

Especially the nail cancel into the fireballs

[digital jewel]

yes your inputs were very slow

especially nail into fireball

it takes a fair amount of practice to get right

don't be worried that you haven't mastered it after 20 minutes

[true hound]

allright

imma post another video, i think my inputs improved a bit

[limpid ruin]

I still havent mastered it after 600 hrs, so you're good

[true hound]

wonderful thats encouraging

[deft flame]

also who do i need to ask for a speedrunner role on discord?

[formal bough]

link a run

and then @ an or just all the srcom mods if you want to be speedy

[deft flame]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/zqg3rvxm

[deft flame]

@digital jewel can i get a spedrunner role?

thanks!

[true hound]

https://youtu.be/-yd83rkHPk4

[steady lynx]

Had a kinda good run going today, then I died to Hornet 2, glad everything is as it should be

[meager current]

what category do you run

[digital jewel]

this is better already

[true hound]

how can I improve?

[steady lynx]

112%

[meager current]

ah

[true hound]

thank you!

[digital jewel]

nail into fireball can still be faster. on controller I roll my thumb directly from one to the other for fast cancels

[meager current]

my uumuu sucks so

[true hound]

hmm. I have (default controls) nail as X and quick cast as F

kinda odd to switch between the two

[deft flame]

are you using the same finger for both keys?

[true hound]

no

index for f and middle finger for x

but i use the same finger for f and dash which is sometimes weird

[deft flame]

yeah so just press them in very quick succession

[true hound]

ill record again in 15m to show you, hopefully my inputs get better

[deft flame]

try practicing just one nail hit into VS outside the fight first

so you get a good idea of the timing you need

[digital jewel]

yeah I have no advice for keyboard

[deft flame]

just think of it like a rhythm to press the keys and practice it a bit and you'll get it, but first get the timing for nail -> VS and then try the full combo

[true hound]

okay

https://youtu.be/nKA7rC7ZbG0

[meager current]

wait i just noticed

some rooms are different in 1.2.2.1 watchers spire?

[hearty adder]

The difference with cp is that they got chopped with room transitions

[meager current]

yeah

[hearty adder]

probably for performance?

[meager current]

its just so strange for me because i used to play cp often

[haughty fossil]

1221 spire is cursed tbh

rooms are too tall for my small brain to handle

[meager current]

idk how i managed to turn 5 minutes of timeloss into 3 minutes ahead within the last 2 splits

on my pb

i thought it would just get worse as it went on from there

[hearty adder]

pbs are just Like That sometimes

[deft flame]

i'm not sure if this is enough for 2 cycle since i run current patch but it looks much better already

[deft flame]

fireballs could still be faster though

is that the sound of your keyboard in the video? it sounds like you're spamming, try to get the rhythm for the moves instead, its harder but its faster that way

[burnt grove]

that, and you need to nail cancel going into fbs (which is a misleading name, but whatevs)

nail cancel: fb just a tiny bit after a nail swing
you'll be surprised how soon you can fb after nail

give yourself infinite soul and just practice fb as soon as possible after nail for 10 minutes

[snow dome]

I was running hyper light Drifter today, but managed to over two separate runs go from 3m behind into pb, then immediately went from 5m ahead from that pb into only getting a 2m pb

Consistency is for nerds

[meager current]

true

[deft thorn]

did my first epogo

[formal bough]

cp or cpn't?

[deft thorn]

cpn't

I only just installed 1221 2 days ago

and have so far spent 1 1/2 hours in it, of which 20 were trying to do gp fb skips (and failing miserably) and 50 were trying epogo

[formal bough]

so easy lame epogo. peepoLeave

jk rando epogo is still too hard for me and I think it's the same epogo

[deft thorn]

I mean I have never ever touched this game outside of pop^^'

[thorn jasper]

Epogo is hard, gg April

[deft thorn]

(and a handful of randos which are barely counting)

thanks

just got it 3 times in a row!

ok I think this is enough practice for one day, on to continue the actual route...

I feel like my setup has slightly different indicators than the tutorials though, is this normal?
for most people (emray, fireb0rn) it seems like their indications for when to jump are a bit higher up
I couldn't get it with what they were showing, had to wait for the spore to be a bit lower

[formal bough]

I mean maybe there is something fps that is effecting it?

[grizzled maple]

ive had that theory for a while, but apparently someone tested it (maybe valigna?) and there's a video somewhere.

[deft thorn]

hm, I mean I am not very long in this
I could just be doing it differently, and that's why I am not getting it with the higher up indicator/position
but I did feel like it got suddenly very easy and consistent as soon as I started feeling for a different indicator, and that was lower down

[digital jewel]

the spore is a little fps dependent on 1221 but not at all on cp

[deft thorn]

just to make sure, AS is basically the same as the any% route up until mantis claw, except for getting the moss knight + fungal geo nodes, right?
so I can just follow fireb0rn tutorial for the room strats

[thorn jasper]

yeah, I also followed fireb0rn's guide for some room strats. I also recommend Pisces's guide for All Skills, which is pinned in #all-skills

[snow dome]

You get those instead of Vengefly King, yeah.

Then you head to gorgeous husk but don't grab crossroads stag or sly, but do bench at King's

Then it's completely different

[deft thorn]

hm, you mean the text guide or a video? because I can't seem to find a video guide by pisces pinned there

[deft thorn]

thanks! that's helpful 🙂

[versed elbow]

The queens garden Thorn Warp strat works on current patch right?

[snow dome]

No

[thorn jasper]

#all-skills message

[snow dome]

There is an all skills route guide that just got added to the srcom page

[versed elbow]

Thank

[snow dome]

If you're generally familiar with Hallownest then it should be enough

[versed elbow]

The only area I still get lost in is DeepNest

[snow dome]

Greenpath is basically an ever shifting labyrinth for me

[versed elbow]

Queens Garden can be that way for me.

The only skill I still get lost trying to find to this day is Howling Wraith

@snow dome Emray's or Xero's? Those are the 2 guides for All Skills that I see

Emray's is for console/CP

[snow dome]

The one that was posted most recently, probably

[versed elbow]

Aight, the one that's 1 month ago

Got it

[snow dome]

It's fucking disappeared

I got a notification literally today and it's gone

Wait no I'm overreacting

It's two days old

Okay every time I click it out sends me back to the main screen it must've been deleted

[deft thorn]

ok I just got the weirdest form of wcs O.O
I dashed into a wall that was sloping inwards just below the spot I dashed into (so basically the wall just above the ceiling of a transition walkway) and got yeeted away from it at a way more horizontal angle than I am used to seeing from wcs

[neon island]

Oh, yeah, I think I have seen something similar like that

[true hound]

https://youtu.be/oxxjMY8qqbQ

[haughty fossil]

3rd fireball looks too slow

[true hound]

okay, thank you. even if i did the 3rd fireball with a nail cancel, is it enough time to cast two more fireballs for the 2-cycle?

[short spire]

you should maybe try the way everyone else lures uumuu

ive only seen fire do that thing where you stand at the bottom for the 2nd movement

i think you'd have an easier time with the dmg cycle if uumuu was farther right

[stuck raptor]

your dmg output just looks slow to me in general

[true hound]

what do you mean where you stand at the bottom? also, if uumuu was farther right doesn't that mean he floats out earlier and i can't hit him with the last nail slashes?

[short spire]

just watch literally anyone else luring uumuu than fire

and youll see what i mean

[marble kestrel]

Can somebody help me. Im trying to setup the debug mod and when i open my menu it does this

[true hound]

wait im supposed to go to the left??

[short spire]

ok dont watch me i do it on the left cause im weird

[grizzled maple]

yeah you would normally line up in 3 specific spots

[short spire]

although you can too if you wanna also be weird

[grizzled maple]

the wall, the platform at the bottom, then the opposite side from uumuu in the center

[true hound]

i line up in the top right, the bottom right, and in the center platform right? what is really the difference between left and right, besides inverted movement?

[grizzled maple]

99% of people do it this way

[knotty vigil]

maybe try modding help

[grizzled maple]

fire is just weird

[worthy sluice]

Hey cuties!!! I'm finishing getting good, Cuz hornet yelled at me for using a scuffed route

[true hound]

i watched fire doing it, what exactly did he do different?

[grizzled maple]

like ax said, study literally anyone else

[short spire]

the way the uumuu dps works is that uumuu will not take any knockback while he's in the highlighted part here. if uumuu is super far left when you start out, you'll knock him far towards the right and have a hard time following him to keep up the dps

[marble kestrel]

ok thanks

[short spire]

that's why you dont want uumuu to be super far left

[true hound]

ohhh so if i get him there i can just do the damage sequence? also one of the fireballs needs to doublehit, how do you do that if he's stuck?

[short spire]

uumuu will slowly float away from you even while inside this part

if you do the damage cycle well uumuu will become unstuck on the last nail hit

[digital jewel]

I started doing fire's movement and I like it more than what I did before

it's simpler

[pine ledge]

Hey guys. Trying to get into speed running, but i can't get debug mod to work. Would someone be willing to walk me through a setup?

[short spire]

i tried it and ran into issues with uumuu being too far from the edge

[versed elbow]

Fire is where I learned to do Mantis arena easily

[grizzled maple]

i think we might have a video for that timmyboy

[short spire]

i think its an fps thing

[true hound]

fireb8rn has a great setup guide on speedrun

*00

*0

[grizzled maple]

theres a guide in the pins here

if youre on current patch its a bit more simple because there's a modinstaller for that

[pine ledge]

I'm in the current patch and using mod installer, but when I load up hollow knight it doesn't seem to have any changes.

[unborn herald]

would anyone be willing to help i tried downpatching and im getting an error saying Application load error

[true hound]

you need to actually install a mod

also go to #archived-modding-help

[unborn herald]

on second thought i may have found the error, forgot to download the actual game lmao

[true hound]

i watched homothety's speedrun (because pest attacks left, ax2u goes left and fireborn is apparently weird) and i don't actually notice anything

different

[ionic sparrow]

if uumuu is far left in the platform, hit it right

if its far right in the platform, hit it left

if its in the middle, do your rotations fast and pray

[true hound]

okay!

[short spire]

its like maybe 1 in a 100 or rarer that i have to hit uumuu in the opposite direction off of the first cycle

if you do the luring right you should basically always be able to do the first cycle in the same direction

[true hound]

I attack right, but the last fireball that I'm supposed to follow with a nail nail doublehits and throws him way to the right

[short spire]

you probably need to practice your nail fireball cancels

try to fireball as soon as the game lets you after a nail hit

its sooner than you think

also it may help to dmg boost uumuu to be closer and do two upslashes after the first fireball instead of side slashes

[true hound]

ill try that

thank you!

what do you mean dmg boost uumuu?

[short spire]

take an intentional hit

so you're closer to the centre once he opens up

[true hound]

the upslashes help!

[digital jewel]

that still won't help when your issue is with fireball cancels

[deft thorn]

ok I didn't know they could follow you up here

[true hound]

like this?

[cinder bison]

On QGA does anyone start to mash cdash a bit early & then hold once it activates? Been trying it that way for a few min & seems like it helps

[true hound]

i dont think mashing is a good idea (or maybe thats just how i do it)

[digital jewel]

mashing isn't

this is still slow

you're casting after the backswing on the nail attack

doing nail cancels well you cancel the entire backswing

[grizzled maple]

i actually happen to have a video for this too
the first two casts are what late fireballs look like
the second two are correct nail cancels
https://youtu.be/PpG7AxKzSO8

maybe seeing the input display will help you understand the timing

[true hound]

thank you! it did. is this right?

[hearty adder]

Tbh finally getting the rhythm on nail cancels is so satisfying

[short spire]

if only TC knew how to code input buffers then they'd actually feel consistent too

[steady lynx]

But they feel good when you get them

[true hound]

did i get the nail cancel in the video?

[grizzled maple]

i cant download it to check tbh

[true hound]

oh

why is uumuu two cycle so hard

why couldnt they just not have discovered two cycle

so we could live peacefully in 3 cycle

[grizzled maple]

honestly settling for a three cycle early on is fine

[true hound]

ur probably right, though ive tried to learn all the hard stuff right in the beginning

qga i got

uumuu broke me

[grizzled maple]

i got a high 37 or low 38 with a 3 cycle from running any% for the three days that i did.

i just dont remember the exact time because i deleted the run and the splits were corrupted

[true hound]

lmao and here i am with a 1:30 because i never actually finished a run on 1221

[grizzled maple]

you can get decent times, even as low as 34-35 with a 3 cycle

[short spire]

ive had low 33's with 3cycle

[true hound]

i should probably just settle for a 3 cycle

then sorry for wasting your time about a two cycle

[short spire]

just go for 2cycle every time and 3cycle will be pretty easy

[grizzled maple]

nah youre good, its worth knowing how to do so you can practice it, but just dont be hard on yourself about not getting it

[short spire]

and youll get a little bit closer to getting 2cycles every run

[grizzled maple]

nail cancels arent even something about uumuu, you need it for optimal damage rotations in basically every fight

so its good that you know that now

[short spire]

theres no reason to not go for 2cycles from the start because it's the easiest setup for a 3cycle

[true hound]

okay! thank you for the help.

[worthy sluice]

Guys i got a 5 minute run!!!!!

I accedentally stoped my timer at 5:04

That counts right?

[slate fulcrum]

holy shit

i don't see why wouldn't it

how do other speedrunners not abuse it?

[worthy sluice]

Idk it might be considered a major glitch

I need to take it up with the higher ups

[slate fulcrum]

i don't think it counts as a glitch

[haughty fossil]

[slate fulcrum]

new wr!!!1!

[formal bough]

I don't think here counts as hk-meme

[worthy sluice]

Well, i legit did a run up to watchers died, checked the time... and it was at 5:04. I went... that aint riaght

[slate fulcrum]

yeah, i'm stopping now

[burnt grove]

might be time to get a nail upgrade (or even 2) and set it aside for now
my brain gets bored with practicing just one thing sometimes, and I do better after I give it a break and come back to it

to get 1 nail upgrade, get the watcher's journal above claw, bench at spire, sell to Lemm just before watcher knights, upgrade, save and quit

[slate fulcrum]

^wanderer's journal*

[burnt grove]

^

hmm, or don't sell to Lemm before wks, don't need to

[hearty adder]

Nail2 is too much, nail1 should be more than enough

[burnt grove]

for another nail upgrade, you can kill the moss knights near hornet for 170, get the wanderer's journal near hornet for 200, rob the mawleks in the abyss for pale ore (then save and quit), get the seal near Lemm for 450

not a fan of "should"

[haughty fossil]

make sure its not getting blocked by your firewall

[true hound]

omg i got the 2 cycle

and i can do a 3 cycle consistently now

[hearty adder]

True

[haughty fossil]

very convenient timing from steam

[steady lynx]

@burnt grove if you do nail1 with Fury strats, doesn't that deal like 16 damage each hit?

[burnt grove]

9*1.75 rounded up is 16, so yes

what cursed thing do you have in mind?

nail each watcher knight 14x, nail uumuu 19x

[steady lynx]

Something like that

Who needs Shaman Stone anyway?

[formal bough]

As a loyal low% runner, literally can't get it

(if loyal means abandoned it once I got the blue name)

[steady lynx]

I just kinda tend to pretend low% doesn't exist and letting Trombon sit in peace with that

[burnt grove]

low% TE is >40 hours, and I think it's been done only once

[hearty adder]

Low% with regular ending is infinitely shorter than low% TE

[true hound]

bird massacre

[hearty adder]

Ngl I kinda wanna try it out because it's cursed

[burnt grove]

hmm... getting fury adds what, 25s? and getting nail 1 adds ~73s

[steady lynx]

Funniest thing ever is that low% GE is faster than low% TE optimally

[burnt grove]

yeah, skurry massacred birds for 40 hours to get enough dreamsicle juice

[steady lynx]

But low% GE is literally impossible to finish

One of your biggest sources of damage in pantheons would be Grimmchild

[formal bough]

low% TE does have like many hours of timesave from GPZ in it

[burnt grove]

useful grimmchild, sounds like what emray is up to doing P5 without nail or spells

GPZ timesave, really?

[steady lynx]

Wouldn't you have to finish the first trial for GPZ?

[true hound]

can someone link emray's guide to the deepnest route (instead of qga)?

[formal bough]

You can S&Q before the % comes in

[true hound]

i cant find it anywhere

[burnt grove]

https://youtu.be/WaZ6yRHOf-o

[severe citrus]

Finished my first Pantheon run today finally. Any tips other then git gud?

https://youtu.be/-R7ACchWaCU

[cinder bison]

47

[hearty adder]

Would be very handy if you decided to

[normal aspen]

It would more than double your damage output so yea

[cinder bison]

time loss from my golds compared to comsob, think im just gonna spend all my time practicing thk for the forseeable future lol

[pearl storm]

I want to get into speedrunning and decided to play holow knight and decided to do any% nmg.
Dose anyone here have any suggestions on some runs I can watch and stuff or tricks to practice?

[grizzled maple]

Pins are a good place to start and just watch a few different runs on speedrun.com

We have a current patch any% and a downpatched any%, so you dont necessarily have to commit to downpatching right away

[pearl storm]

I only have hollow knight on switch atm so I can only run current patch, dose live split remove load times if I capture my screen to?

[grizzled maple]

Oh okay thats different and much easier yeah. We have a switch specific leaderboard and its timed real time.

So you dont have to worry about the loadless timer either

[pearl storm]

Oh cool

[grizzled maple]

The main thing is make sure the game audio is in the recording if you're not using a capture card. Recording with a cam is alright.

[pearl storm]

K, I have a elgato hd60+ and a laptop that can capture it so recording isn't a problem

I was gonna practice shade skip to get dream nail later and use my casual playthrough to practice some other skips to, and recommendations for ones that really matter?

[grizzled maple]

I personally have a bunk account set up on my switch to keep extra practice files on. As long as you don't transition, pick up and item, or save quit it'll keep your previous spot.

You'll just have to die near the end on purpose to practice bosses since they also auto save.

[twin swallow]

acid skip from crossroads on the way to uumuu is pretty important I would say

[grizzled maple]

Practicing on switch is awful compared to pc since you won't have access to debug mod.

[pearl storm]

Oh k thanks, I was planning on getting hk on pc to do practice to in the future

[grizzled maple]

I would watch the route first and make some notes then run through. Once you know what you struggled with you can start setting up practice files.

[pearl storm]

I was also worried that switch hk was slower then it on pc but I don't have to worry about it if it's a seperate leaderboard

[grizzled maple]

Also you dont have to do QGA right away. Its especially difficult on switch because of the input delay. Ill get you a doc that I made for relyea when I helped him learn any%

[pearl storm]

Thanks, what's QGA tho?

[grizzled maple]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10aXiOYQu-SLQlsyb5TTBfqFT8fNmBjyPJH7gJC8u_bk/edit?usp=drivesdk

The acid skip into queens garden. That route is pretty advanced

But that doc should give you a LOT of info to start

[pearl storm]

The one were you use crystals dash to go under the spikes

Is that it

[grizzled maple]

I was teaching him on switch so this doc applies well to console

Yeah that one

[pearl storm]

Oh k

Thanks for all the help, I'm really excited now to be part of this community :), I don't have every day to practice and even when I can I'll only be able to for an hour or 2 so I don't expect to get anywhere near we honestly

[grizzled maple]

gl if you have any questions we're here :)

[pearl storm]

Thanks:)

[grizzled maple]

Check the pinned video in #any-percent-nmg

Pest explains the pattern you should be doing pretty well

[livid stirrup]

Honestly fireborn's vid helped me a looooot with wk. You've probably already watched that tho

My struggle with wk is that when they jump I keep trying to dash over them instead of away

I'm slowly getting better at it

It's just a matter of my brain learning to react in time

It's such a subconscious thing

[stuck raptor]

There's no substitute for practice with WKs

[livid stirrup]

Yep

[grizzled maple]

You should have time to dash over them even if they bounce. Youre probably starting the pattern too late if you're doing it correctly.

Really yeah just practice

[livid stirrup]

Yeah I can sometimes get over them in time but sometimes not. Still getting the pattern down

I don't have quick cast mapped very well and can't figure out an alternative so I'm just slowly learning to be faster

[grizzled maple]

I like the default inputs because bumper quick cast works really well with the face button nail for nail cancels

[livid stirrup]

I'm on a laptop keyboard

[grizzled maple]

Its like a wave dash input in melee

Unfortunate

[livid stirrup]

Yep

[haughty fossil]

bumper quick cast also works really well with trigger nail slash

[grizzled maple]

Jamie what stop

[deft flame]

i've now thrown like 5 runs that were like 2 min ahead of my pb

unlucky streak

[worthy sluice]

Teixeira has speedrun rank 😦 i still suk

I dont have one

Lol

I just have runs

And i know they are real

[deft flame]

can't you submit them?

[worthy sluice]

Dont have a recording device

[deft flame]

i see

[worthy sluice]

I need to guarantee my run is under 1:10 before my phone will have enough storage to record it

[twin swallow]

good motivation to go faster I guess

[deft flame]

damn my sum of best is an entire 3 minutes faster than my pb now

[worthy sluice]

Xbox

[deft flame]

wait can't you stream from xbox?

[worthy sluice]

To twitch sure but twich isnt accepted

[haughty fossil]

yes it is

highlight the vod

[deft flame]

you just gotta make a highlight from the stream

[worthy sluice]

It is???

[deft flame]

as long as its a highlight, yes

[worthy sluice]

How?

[deft flame]

after the stream is over you got to your videos on twitch from a browser and create a highlight

i just don't know if you need a timer on the video, or how'd you do it

[worthy sluice]

I just record time on my phone

[twin swallow]

if it's RTA you can just work out the time from the length of the highlight

[worthy sluice]

I feel they would to a re time

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deft flame]

yup there are many console runs on speedrun.com without timers

so just stream to twitch, create a highlight and submit

oh yeah true

[fringe wave]

does anyone know where I can get the any percent splits?

[formal bough]

take a look at this^

[dull lion]

In speedrun.Com resources

[gritty tulip]

hey guys, i have no idea if this is the right channel to ask this in but here goes:

i got the hollow knight 1.2.2.1 downpatch yesterday and the faq does mention about the switch pro controller not being recognized by that version of the game, but i was wondering if there was a clever workaround (by using inputmapper or something like that) that was known by some people here. if i have to buy another controller then so be it but i wanna make sure first

[twin swallow]

I think people use joy2key for binding switch pro input to simulate a kb output

[cinder obsidian]

Does anyone know the swinging speed of the Knight's nail with quick slash?

(Pantheon speedruns obv)

[warm spade]

practicing all skills

i think the hardest part will be learning the route

but i do still have the problem of fireball skip and explosion pogo being inconsistent

i do think it’ll be easier however just because i’ll have more skills for the harder boss fights

^ than any%

[pearl storm]

Ngl I just did shade skip to dream nail and it was satisfying

[gritty tulip]

i'll try joy2key, thx!

[warm spade]

yoo i feel that but for me it was fireball and explosion pogo

next step is making it consistent tho

but shade skip was hella satisfying too

[carmine yew]

luckily remembering the route is just a matter of doing runs

you'll have it down before you know it

[warm spade]

thanks :)

since the tournament is soon my goal is to just submit a run i’m semi proud of before the tournament

[carmine yew]

Yeah that’s a great goal!

[cinder bison]

Is there info somewhere about how the all skills tournament is gonna work

[grizzled maple]

#races-announcements has everything we know right now

[warm spade]

also make sure you have the speedrun racer role or you can’t see the channel

[grizzled maple]

Oh I assumed those channels were like the normal speedrun channels where you can see them but not type.

Theyre pretty new in the grand scheme of things. Ill keep that in mind

[soft tide]

Was wondering how viable using fury of the fallen would be for an entire run, new to the server btw

[versed elbow]

Welp got all the way to the DDark room in about 40 mins on my first attempt in All Skills then got boned twice by the crystal hunters

[soft tide]

good to know, thanks

[twin swallow]

crystal hunters on current patch are assholes

[versed elbow]

Legit upset about that one.

I was having a pretty decent first run

Oh well. More practice tomorrow.

Gotta get up early, so can't really stay up too late tonight.

[grizzled maple]

Fury is only good when you dont have spell options. Fury is only 8 damage per hit at base nail. With shaman stone even base VS is 20. Its just severely outclassed by spell damage.

[pure vault]

I thought it was 8.75 or something but it rounds to 9

I could be wrong idr

[grizzled maple]

Did I mix it up with strength again?

[versed elbow]

How much damage does Fury+Unbreakable Strength+Pure Nail do? Sheerly out of curiosity.

[grizzled maple]

One of them is 8 and the other is 9

[pure vault]

ah okay, I don't remember perfectly tbh

I could be getting them mixed up

[versed elbow]

Because I know that combo specifically kills everything without wasting much time.

[pure vault]

kills stuff slower than shaman stone + Shriek

[grizzled maple]

You can just look at the values from the hk wiki and do the math for that answer tbh

[versed elbow]

[grizzled maple]

I'm not sure if anyone but pantheon IL runners would know that off hand

Most main category runners can list off spell damage values though lol

[deft flame]

pretty sure strength is 8

[twin swallow]

i know pure nail is 21, but I don't remember if fury and strength combined additively or if they multiply

base nail is 5 and it's +4 for each upgrade

[grizzled maple]

They do combine i know that

[neon island]

I think it is 51 for Fury+Strength+Nail4

[grizzled maple]

With strength pure nail is about as strong as shaman shade soul which is why quickslash is so stupid busted in pantheons for 112

[versed elbow]

Pure Nail does 21 base and FotF+Strength gives it 162.5% more damage.

[grizzled maple]

I just dont know the number

[versed elbow]

34.125 which rounds down to 34

That sounds wrong

[deft flame]

you mean with nail 4? should be 55

[versed elbow]

In that case yea, 55

21+34

Damage goes up

It rounds up if it's below .5?

Because the actual number would be 55.125

[deft flame]

pretty sure its rounded to nearest

[formal bough]

I thought it was rounded up

[deft flame]

looked at the wiki and it says rounded to nearest, could it be wrong though?

[versed elbow]

The wiki from what I'm seeing does normal rounding .5 and higher rounds up.

Anything below rounds down

Unless both of us are reading that one wrong.

[grizzled maple]

I'm pretty sure rounding to the nearest is why fury and strength are 8 and 9 respectively from nail 0 which does 5

So im inclined to believe that

[deft flame]

its the other way around though, fury does more damage

[versed elbow]

Aight then

Sucks being on console sometimes. Can't test stuff like that.

Also no clue how, but in my first run I hit the double kill with the spike against the 2 Aspids in the arena in Crossroads.

That felt good.

[pure vault]

I don't want to burst your bubble but they did make it much easier to do on current patch, still nice job tho

[versed elbow]

Wait, they did?

Nice

I still can't hit a fireball skip to save my life.

[pure vault]

yea they like always spawn in the same spot that's perfectly lined up or something, don't gotta manipulate them like on previous patches

[versed elbow]

It's an apology for making literally every other aspect of the run harder.

Also All Skills was a good move. It feels like I'll get to improve my movement a lot in this category.

[leaden python]

I lowkey think that TC made doublespike free after seeing speedrunners doing it on older patches. Like Will Smith saw that and like "wtf that's so cool we need to legalize that"

(naive hopes)

[versed elbow]

Oh god... Not the Will Smith copypasta

[pure vault]

would you prefer the vaporeon copypasta

[stiff delta]

NOOOOOOOOOOO

[versed elbow]

Is it the Vaporeon copypasta I'm thinking of?

It can't be

[twin swallow]

it's great

[pure vault]

(:

[pliant patio]

Quick question, does anyone know where the download for the debug and save states 1.2.2.1? I checked the pinned message but the I can't find the download. Any suggestions?

[ionic sparrow]

pinned in #resources

[pliant patio]

Gracias!

[exotic thunder]

[cinder bison]

?rank speedrun racer

[sick raven]

@cinder bison, you joined Speedrun Racer.

[knotty vigil]

I can haz speedrunner role pls? ❤️ Dis my verified run on Any% - Current Patch NMG, and I'm finally getting back on the grind >w< :
https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/run/m7gl329m

[quick meteor]

nice!

[sick pewter]

Just completed my first run let's go

2.12.33 in game time

pretty slow but im happy

[knotty vigil]

awesome! ❤️ sounds like you and I are at pretty similar starting points! ❤️

[proud vessel]

nice! i still havent done a full run yet, but good job!

[sick pewter]

once i beat watcher knights it only got easier

ummuu was SUPER annoying tho

[knotty vigil]

In my run, Watcher Knights took me about 8 mins, Uumuu took me about 10, and THK took me like 30 xD

Boss practice is where I'm focusing my practice currently, and then I'm gonna get back to some casual runs to re-learn the route (i haven't done a run in a while, so it's not super fresh in my memory). after that I'll get to practising the more difficult skips and stuff, and then from there i'll be doing full runs ❤️ that's my current plan anyway

[knotty vigil]

Oh right I was intending to <@&284848710960021504> about this >w< Sorry, I forgot to put a mention in there ❤️

Yay! ❤️ Thank you! ❤️

[bleak jungle]

Question, when focusing soul during the Colo fights, and a wall moves in from the side, you slide along the ground at Mach 5, is that reproducible and/or usable in any other area of the game?

[formal bough]

It also works with inventory iirc. It's just not very useful anywhere since when are you in a situation like that but in colo and moving fast in colo isn't useful

[bleak jungle]

Feelsbadman

[limpid ruin]

It's the same type of glitch that makes inv drops to be useful

I think

Since its not supposed to move, it doesn't check if it moves type of thing

[haughty fossil]

its the same mechanic as inventory slides, which afaik are only useful in a few rooms in 106 and every room in impossible any%

[drowsy tangle]

what's the fastest way to get to i.e. uumuu to practice that? Is it just using debug and unlocking stuff to get there quick?

[haughty fossil]

debug + noclip usually

if you're current patch you can add benchwarp to the equation

[drowsy tangle]

ok. kinda boring though lol

yeah no im not on CP sadly

[haughty fossil]

once you're there though, you can set dreamgates in debug to warp back to them on that file later on

so for example you can set 1 at uumuu, 1 at WK, 1 at THK, 1 before beasts den... etc

[frigid rapids]

also there are sets of practice saves on speedrun.com

[dusk timber]

finally did it, a 2:07.xx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJJvYsvLZHA

[leaden python]

Jesus fuck, kal, huge GGs

[dusk timber]

ty vali!

[short spire]

woooooooooooooo

you're insane kal

[dusk timber]

ty ax

[leaden python]

Like you can really feel all the blood and sweat by looking at this attempts count

[jagged vault]

kal ggs

[dusk timber]

sub 15k haha

ty blue!

[haughty fossil]

chess wr when

(ggs )

[drowsy tangle]

that is speeed lol. GGs!

[drowsy tangle]

oh i didn't even notice !

[dense hinge]

congrats kal! absolutely incredible

[deft thorn]

holy kal, huge congratz!

[dusk timber]

https://tenor.com/view/thanks-thank-you-dwight-gif-3898407

[deft thorn]

wait is this cp

[snow dome]

That was rad af

[dusk timber]

yes it isss

[dense hinge]

hell yeah

[snow dome]

Is there any difference for PoP?

Except that CP will lag less

<_<

[potent mountain]

Gj Kal. Proud of you

[deft thorn]

holy hell

proving that cp is indeed optimal patch

what an incredible run

[dusk timber]

ty zalient

ending saves a goood chunk of time at the end

switched to current patch for the fun of it bc i wanted to stream something at least a bit more different. And then i noticed i was getting actual good times

[deft thorn]

last room is faster on cp
the ddark parts are slower than inventory drops (I think?)

[dusk timber]

and was like... wait a second...

[short spire]

they reduced the kingsmould hp right

[dusk timber]

yah

[dense hinge]

yeah

[snow dome]

Oh wow, that's such an odd change

[drowsy tangle]

i see no leaderboard for PoP, how close was it to the 2nd?

[tough moat]

i succeeded path of pain 1 time ;-;

congrats 👏

[frigid rapids]

just put it on the list

[snow dome]

https://www.speedrun.com/hollowknight/Path_of_Pain

[frigid rapids]

gg kal

[deft thorn]

I think the thornstand is harder on cp because the cycle is tighter, but both crafter and kal have now corrected me on my assumption that it's too tight ^^

[short spire]

i guess they changed the kingsmould hp because casuals were crying about dying at the end

[dusk timber]

did not expect this many congrats and gg's

but tyyy

<3

[snow dome]

You now have the top 3 times on PoP

Well done

[dusk timber]

oh damn i did not think about that

[snow dome]

at me next time why don't you 😠

[deft thorn]

I was wondering if the first ddark is faster if you instead charge a nail art (with nmg instead of dream wielder) and release cyclone right after the dash, but I can't do platforming well while charging nail arts, so I haven't yet tested it out

I don't know how fast you fall with cyclone, and if it gives any advantage over ddark due to the initial stall from ddark and the recovery time after hitting the ground

[dusk timber]

yah haven't tested it either, dont forget you need to hit the lever

[deft thorn]

no the very first one in the first room

[dusk timber]

ohh

[deft thorn]

for the second, you can't charge it fast enough I think for it to matter

[dusk timber]

yah no way

[deft thorn]

it would be a tiny optimization if anything, and I am honestly not sure if it wouldn't instead lose time, lol

[dusk timber]

doesnt hurt to try though, but picturing it in my head it wouldn't activate fast enough

[deft thorn]

but afaik, releasing nail arts is instant, as opposed to a ddark cast

I have been thinking about this for a while now, and tried a couple of times, but never got anything that was good enough to even try comparing

[plucky sparrow]

i'm learning any% no skills and i ran into a weird problem - i can't buy from shops because i have B set to jump, which sets it to confirm in shops, but it's also cancel in shops. am i allowed to hit whatever i have mapped to confirm on keyboard to buy stuff or do i have to relearn with another control scheme?

[digital jewel]

Enter is confirm on keyboard

I'm confused about the question

[plucky sparrow]

oh i play on controller, sorry for not specifying

[deft thorn]

you are allowed to use keyboard alongside controller, yes

[short spire]

what exactly is any% no skills

[plucky sparrow]

me being tired at 5 am and meaning all skills

[deft thorn]

AG kappa

[short spire]

lol gotcha

[digital jewel]

Oh yes you're allowed to use keyboard and controller

But I'm confused about the situation

A should always work as confirm shouldn't it?

[deft thorn]

nmg takes 0.5s to charge a nail art, right?

does anyone know how long after the end of a dash you need to wait before releasing a nail art for it to not be a forced dash slash?
or can you just hold up and immediately release it to do a cyclone slash after dashing?

[snow dome]

no skills any% is the new hotness

[plucky sparrow]

for some reason it definitely doesn't, i have A mapped to attack and B to jump

can't use it in the inventory either

[snow dome]

Did you map using an external app or the in game menu?

Also which patch are you on and what kind of controller are you using?

[plucky sparrow]

in game, 1221, and the 8bitdo m30, but i at least somewhat fixed the issue by using steam's big picture to switch A and B on the controller and then in game too and it seems to be working now

[median gull]

@knotty vigil

[haughty fossil]

wr pog

[meager current]

igt is kinda broken huh

[pine wadi]

@median gull HOW

teach me the ways of the speedrunning gods

[dark blaze]

I remember someone in hkdiscussion sending a p5 time for 5 minutes lmao with AB

[haughty fossil]

wait pantheon IGT also does the stupid "lol you're a god" thing? damn

[dark blaze]

Nah it was a fake iirc. Pantheon time is actually close to RTA

[pine wadi]

?

o

[dark blaze]

They claimed it was real tho so 🥴

[pine wadi]

damn

[harsh mason]

the code should be the same

endtime on your computer - starttime on your computer

[dark blaze]

I find pantheon times to be more accurate though when im running them

Meanwhile the endings are just weird

[haughty fossil]

wait that's really it? i thought they at least paused when you pause

[harsh mason]

it does on cp

[pine wadi]

how much difference does shaman stone do on spells?

[harsh mason]

on older patches it literally just did that

on current patch it does this

        if ((this.gameState == GameState.PLAYING || this.gameState == GameState.ENTERING_LEVEL || this.gameState == GameState.EXITING_LEVEL) && Time.unscaledDeltaTime < 1f)
        {
            timer += Time.unscaledDeltaTime;
        }

[leaden python]

yeah we've been simping for this video since it came out yesterday or something like that

[dark blaze]

It's also been reuploaded by methyll iirc

[orchid pawn]

Yeah

[burnt grove]

sounds like progress to me
you might try recording your fight and watching it so you don't have to figure out what went wrong while trying to stay alive

honestly, so much of the wk fight's difficulty comes down to "brain too slow to figure all this out at once"

[normal aspen]

are yon on CP or 1.2.2.1

[meager current]

have you fought pure vessel recently

if no good

be expecting for slower movements

like way slower

yes

[normal aspen]

CP THK kinda spicy ngl

[haughty fossil]

hot take pv easier than cp any% loadout thk

[meager current]

i need to research into how this phenomona of learning the faster version screws up the easier one works

phycology smh

[haughty fossil]

muscle memory go brrr

[fleet pewter]

"Videos should be uploaded to a permanent host site, Twitch VODs are not accepted." If I upload the VOD to my youtube channel, is it ok?

[meager current]

i think so

[burnt grove]

when you train on thk, you'll know how to learn a boss fight where you're severely underpowered
also, on console, it takes a lot less time to get back to thk after it kills you, so there's that

[haughty fossil]

you can also just make a highlight of your twitch vod in the Video Manager

[meager current]

highlight?

[meager current]

i dont even stream my runs so

[fleet pewter]

Ok, thanks for the help

[knotty vigil]

This is very pog

[jaunty anvil]

^w^

[meager current]

i need to go through my splits and add funny names

[versed elbow]

For my Any% NMG splits the Watcher Knights are "Sonic Fanclub"

[meager current]

i hate when they do the floor roll and bounce off the wall nearby

how is that even possible

immovable object vs a stoppable force wtf game

and when they perfectly angle their bounce to hit you

wk are not fun.

[limpid ruin]

[charred sigil]

I'm liking the fight too, even though they kick my ass

died 4 times to them in my first run

exciting stuff

[normal aspen]

yeah but all skills has abyss climb

checkmate

[dark blaze]

Damn he got you there wasabi

[meager current]

Which ending does all skills get?

[neon island]

The same as Any%

[meager current]

So HK?

[neon island]

Yeah

[meager current]

K

[neon island]

They just do the fight differently

[dark blaze]

It's the same as any% but you have to have all skills and abilities

[meager current]

I know what the category is

[neon island]

It's actually shriek

Shriek does the most damage

Yeah, you get shriek in the abyss before you fight thk

[meager current]

THK

[neon island]

Oh, sorry, yeah, DDark is used on wk

mb

[versed elbow]

And this is why it's best category.

I believe so. It's 1 in 100 if you have Dreamwielder iirc.

[neon island]

Wiki says 1/200 with dreamwielder

that is weird, I thought it was that too

[versed elbow]

I've watched Monstahler's Abyss Climb 15 times and counting. Still can't stop literally losing my mind everytime I see it.

I plan on being an All Skills main for a while, so I'm gonna inevitably get pretty good at Abyss Climb, but this climb is absurd.

[normal aspen]

I think it's 1/100 to catch up spent dg essence

[normal aspen]

You should submit to the abyss climb IL leaderboard then

It's all skills.prwctive and fun

[jagged vault]

abyss climb ils are really fun

i got carried away in practice once

sat there for an hour doing attempts

eventually got a 31:5x but never recorded

some day i'll submit something to those boards

[open swan]

is the ||blue lake skip|| worth it

[charred sigil]

Yep

[open swan]

when you ||use your shade || to get to the ||blue lake||

[charred sigil]

probably one of the most worth it skips

you don't need to spoiler mark btw

[open swan]

you can use it to skip false knight to

[charred sigil]

Yes

that's one of the biggest parts of the timesave

40 seconds saved just by not fighting false knight

it's also fairly easy to learn

compared to stuff like qga

[open swan]

but won't i have to fight ||gruz mother||

[charred sigil]

which saves the same amount of time

you have to fight gruzz mother either way to save sly

[open swan]

do you have to fight ||gruz mother ||to get ||sly||

yes

[charred sigil]

please stop spoiler marking

[open swan]

ok

[charred sigil]

this isn't the #hk-help chat spoilers are allowed

[open swan]

ok

[charred sigil]

and yeah

[open swan]

so do i have to do it

to et sly

[charred sigil]

^

or learn how to do like

3 dark rooms without lantern

and go to soul sanctum to get dive to enter peaks

which is like

10 times harder than fighting gruzz mother

[open swan]

ok

for speedrun

ok thx

[charred sigil]

Are you going for the 5 hour achivement

[open swan]

im going for whichever

[charred sigil]

what?

[slate fulcrum]

5 hour is actually really easy to do

you don't need any speedrun routes

[charred sigil]

if you're just here for achivements not for the competative routs

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[slate fulcrum]

is the fireball skip harder in cp or is it the same?

[charred sigil]

same

pins

[slate fulcrum]

i think i'll just stick to the mosquito strat for now

professional speedrunners, don't murder me for that please

[charred sigil]

it's perfectly valid

[carmine yew]

Hey everyone has to start somewhere

[charred sigil]

you're avoiding a very common mistake actually

which is putting too much effort into learning optimal strats before completing a run

[short spire]

that's not a mistake

[charred sigil]

it gets people burnt out very fast when they decide to learn all the hardest tricks

when they don't feel up to the challenge

[median gull]

That is a mistake for a good amount of people, including me

[short spire]

yeah the burning out part is the mistake if you do it with the wrong mindset

[open swan]

what is easyest pale ore

[charred sigil]

lav

[short spire]

doing the hard stuff right off the bat is a very valid strategy still though if you're strong enough to push through it

[charred sigil]

I don't know if you saw

[midnight storm]

I think it is a good idea to try to fireball skip and if it miss go for moskito, no problem

[open swan]

what

[charred sigil]

but this isn't the right channel

read this

?srpsa

[sick raven]

Reminder: This category is intended for competitive speedrunning discussion. Questions about achievements should be directed to #hk-help.
Guide for the 5hr speedrunning achievement: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1861523602

[open swan]

ik

[charred sigil]

that guide will answer most of your questions

[open swan]

but htis is speedrun so i figure you guys know a lot

[charred sigil]

#hk-help can answer the rest

[open swan]

ok bye

[midnight storm]

[twin swallow]

we'll get 'em next time

[limpid ruin]

Also you learn to run easier when you know how to crawl first

Aka, learning the hardest stuff with zero foundation ain't often a good choice

[short spire]

calling it a straight up mistake is a bit misleading too though

it's a preference thing, basically

[midnight storm]

I just discovered this channel recently and it seems there is often the same type of off topic questions

[twin swallow]

the mistake is stressing excessively over tiny timesave that will become irrelevant in a short period of time when you naturally get better at the game and route anyway

[limpid ruin]

Yea, it depends on the person, but on avg (like when someone comes in first time asking questions, they're probably average people more often than not) it's easy to conclude it is a mistake

[slate fulcrum]

i'm back so

what is the time lose when doing the mosquito strat instead of fireball skip?

like 5 seconds?

[limpid ruin]

Depends on charge rng, but around there yea

[grizzled maple]

each fireball skip is 3, 10, and 12 (if you dont do the backup) respectively

[midnight storm]

You mean doing muri's epogo which is 0.3 seconds time save where I have more than a minute to save on my run ?

[grizzled maple]

its more than 5 for sure

if youre counting failing them

[limpid ruin]

Practically speaking it's 5 seconds, just in terms of all the minutes possible elsewhere

[limpid ruin]

Ouipogo is easier bc you just musclememory instead of actually focus on cue

[midnight storm]

That's why I'm doing it

Also for style points

[neon island]

Learn fireball epogo too

[grizzled maple]

#any-percent-nmg pins, and fire's set of tutorials

[midnight storm]

Don't get hit

[sour flame]

I'm new to speed running the game, and I was wondering if someone could help me out with understanding how to set up the game for practicing? I have the Modding API and I know there's Save States but I was wondering if there was a way to have it set up so you could have a convenient way to practice certain parts of the speed run?

[twin swallow]

debug mod allows you to set multiple dreamgates

so you can warp to whatever part of the run you want

[deft flame]

whaaaaaaaaat

[sour flame]

And do the dream gates transfer across save files?

[deft flame]

how did I not know that

[twin swallow]

yes, and they get saved in a little dreamgate.dat text-editable file which you can transfer wherever you like

[deft flame]

damn this is gonna be very useful

[twin swallow]

this is the one I use for any%

[sour flame]

Ohh that's convenient, okay. How do I go about setting up multiple dream gates? Do i just hit the Dream Gate button on the menu screen / overlay and it'll place it?

[twin swallow]

just put it in your hollow knight install folder and rename it to only dreamgate.dat

[sour flame]

Oh perfect okay

[twin swallow]

to add new ones you just open the dreangate tab in debug mod, use Set and then Save I believe

it's been a while since I added new ones

[sour flame]

So I want to put it in the hollow_knight_Data folder right?

[twin swallow]

same level as the executable

[sour flame]

Okay perfect, thank you so much for your help. How do I go about using the various dream gates?

[twin swallow]

select the destination you're interested in and use dream nail as normal (make sure you give yourself the dreamnail ability and essence to use it in debug mod if you don't have them already)

[sour flame]

Ah so awesome! It worked, thank you so so much!

[twin swallow]

\o/

when you add new destinations it will ID them with the room name in the game files, which might not be very helpful depending on how well you know the game

if you want to rename them to something more descriptive, you can do that by editing the .dat file

[torpid pollen]

does this mean if you dont do the skip, and then do squit skip, then just walk around?

[sour flame]

Ah great! Thank you for your help!

[vivid oar]

Can someone plz help me figure out a way to skip the watcher knights

[torpid pollen]

you cant

[haughty fossil]

in a no major glitches way or?

[grizzled maple]

i mean, @ krythom

[torpid pollen]

right yes you could

[vivid oar]

With major glitches

[grizzled maple]

can you believe someone wants to run AG

[torpid pollen]

but not without major glitches

does nmms skip wk?

[grizzled maple]

i think so?

[haughty fossil]

yes, believe they just elevator storage up

[torpid pollen]

yeah ok

[grizzled maple]

most runners main NMG. there's like 5 people who run glitched categories who can actually help you

unfortunately

doesnt look like any of them are online (kry is but probably not checking this chat)

[vivid oar]

Ok im not even trying to speed run the game im just trying to skip the garbage fight

[grizzled maple]

i dont think you can do it on current patch

[torpid pollen]

ah ok

dont people do cp runs of ag?

[grizzled maple]

you need to downpatch to an OLD patch to do room dupes, which is how you do the skip

[haughty fossil]

thats for cp mms, which gives you everything except dreamers off the bat aqua

[torpid pollen]

ah ok

[vivid oar]

Ok

[torpid pollen]

just practice it i guess

and use the help channel if this isnt for an actual speedrun

[elder gale]

?rank Speedrun Racer

[sick raven]

@elder gale, you joined Speedrun Racer.

[deft flame]

thank you for this file btw, its gonna be very useful

[short stag]

Hello! I want to start speed running. I decided to start with this game. want to do it on the controller! What would you advise to take? Dualsense or controller from xbox series x? Some peoples say playing dpad better than analog stick? If so, which of these controllers is it better on? I just don't have the opportunity to buy both and try which one is better! Thanks in advance everyone

[meager current]

xbox one/series x has a trick for doing fireball skips easier

[twin swallow]

fireball skips are perfectly doable for me on DS4 /shrug

[meager current]

your point?

[twin swallow]

that there's not generally a "best" input method and you'll find people of all skill levels using each method

[meager current]

yes

[twin swallow]

whatever is most comfortable for you is the best option

[meager current]

i was just stating that there was a trick, not that it was entirely better

[digital jewel]

there's no difference between the two for hk

there's nothing you can do on one but not the other

just about which you prefer using

like hand size, preferred layout etc.

[short stag]

what do you recommend to use dpad or analog stick? I'm not comfortable with both methods yet, so I want to hear recommendations on which one should I choose

[deft flame]

I'd use dpad just because i accidentally miss a lot of pogos on analog, but im pretty sure analog is totally viable too

[short stag]

thanks

[digital jewel]

I prefer dpad

[meager current]

dpad makes pogos hard for me

[twin swallow]

analog for general movement, dpad to override for pogos and fireball skips

[short stag]

what is pogos?

[limpid ruin]

Downward attack while in the air

[uneven scarab]

Helps you to gain extra height/distance if you hit a opponent/spike

[versed elbow]

When does the timer start for Abyss Climb IL?

[limpid ruin]

On transition into the room, ends on transition out

You have to manually split both

[granite nymph]

what is the hotkey to start on livesplit?

i don't know what it is

[deft flame]

you can change it on settings

and see what it is set to

[granite nymph]

alright

i see

[burnt grove]

does this use a fireball to delay falling?

[neon island]

That, and to make the spore explode

I'll see if I can find a clip

Here it is

[burnt grove]

oh it's like pantapogo!

[neon island]

I also think it is ever so slightly faster than muripogo

[burnt grove]

muripogo = pantapogo?

(or vice versa)

[neon island]

No, muripogo is different

from pantapogo

[burnt grove]

so many pogos

[neon island]

Pantapogo is the cp one

[burnt grove]

here's what I imagined: damage tank pogo like in cp, but you jump early and use fb to keep in the air

scrub strat, not swag

[deft flame]

what the hell

[digital jewel]

why is it faster than muripogo?

[neon island]

I think it is because there are no dmg tank freezeframes

[digital jewel]

or does that not take into account the soul

[neon island]

Yeah, that doesn't take the soul into account

[burnt grove]

easy to pick up 3 hits soul in the next room, but you'd delay your menu drop

[deft flame]

and as an extra its also the most swag epogo

[burnt grove]

speedrunning objectives:

1. swag
2. go fast

[ivory steeple]

1. kill lurien

2. kill monomon

3. kill herrah

[formal bough]

is it muripogo or ouipogo

[ivory steeple]

4. die to a primal aspid that somehow made it to the black egg

[formal bough]

I'm sure room duping would allow that to happen medo