sk-lore

[fathom hill]

is abt how he got wrong abt Hornet's and White lady's dialogue

[fervent sigil]

i love checking on old channels just to see they got a fucking problem around the same day i checked

did he change the title for the video lol

[fathom hill]

did he now

it seems the same for me

[polar fiber]

no its still the somwhat complete lore

[fervent sigil]

no i meant did he change it to somewhat after what happened

[fathom hill]

He hasn't

[maiden meteor]

mossbag made lore mistake, billions must die

[fathom hill]

Billions must frown

[fervent sigil]

no witnesses

[dawn sluice]

i mean the iron thing was only because eva was incredibly fragile and weak so maybe it’s more alluding to how both are meant to extend life

[fathom hill]

Eva does say the container is just as well her body than whatever it's inside but maybe thats cuz

[olive quartz]

Reflecting the desires of the Soul Sanctum for mastery over SOUL, it improves the bearer's ability to cast spells.

[fathom hill]

she just has lived her whole life there tbf

[olive quartz]

soul twister has nothing to do w extending life

[fervent sigil]

saddest backstory im ngl

[dawn sluice]

hermit crab eva

[fathom hill]

Eva is cool

I like eva

[dawn sluice]

hey
have you gotten 100%

[fathom hill]

I have

[dawn sluice]

liked*

[unique canopy]

Give her Porky's bed

[fathom hill]

nah eva is still there somewhere

the superior resource maker

[fervent sigil]

doesnt she die and now shes just a silk regenerator

[fathom hill]

yah ego death or something

[dawn sluice]

imagine if hornet used bind on thk after stabbing them in the head

[fathom hill]

would have been funny

also an interesting what if where hornet has to bear the infection or something

[dawn sluice]

do you think it would’ve been like the cursed crest

[hearty bolt]

Was anyone else disappointed that binding GMS' arm didn't reveal anything about her?

[fathom hill]

though to be rational she would have probably just became crazy

she's strong but not that much unless we know what happens after weaver queen

INFECTED SENTINEL

something something second sentinel is called that cuz the first one is hornet aint that fun

Do we know why the robots at the citadel are given numbers?

[dawn sluice]

well due to her weakening in the black egg she’d just die i think

[fathom hill]

someone said apparently it could tie with the religious theming since apostles or saints but

idk Catholicism

[dawn sluice]

well they don’t get names so it might be something to do with addressal

[fervent sigil]

people

[dawn sluice]

bugs

[dawn sluice]

it revealed she had nails

pale nails

[unique canopy]

Orchestral organization. If multiple people are playing the same instruments (common with larger orchestras) then they're listed as 1st violin, 2nd violin, 3rd violin, etc. so each knows which part of the music they're playing.

[fervent sigil]

paale huh

PALEEEE

[fathom hill]

You're right

[dawn sluice]

is it just me or do pale beings only have the ability to alter living beings while other higher beings straight up make them

[fathom hill]

I love that actually makes the most sense

[dawn sluice]

it’s almost like
some kind of silk song

[fathom hill]

something something the foil steam badge thing

[lethal bridge]

Pale imitation

[dawn sluice]

wowww

[hearty bolt]

Really does seem like it outside of the Fork's constructs and Milfy Silky's Silk Daughters

[fathom hill]

Also do we know if eva is like

[dawn sluice]

yeah
but then again they used already existing materials
unn literally dreamed green path into existence and the radiance made the moth tribe out of nothing

[fathom hill]

an ascended sylph slug or

[fathom hill]

ig gms did just make lace and phantom

[hearty bolt]

Right, both silky and forky used their soul/silk to give live to husks

Unn and radiance didn't make anything out of nothing though, they made them out of themselves with nothing else

[fathom hill]

so they are capable of making life to some extent

just not biological bugs ig

Also maybe this could tie with my lil hypothesis that pale beings are just normal beings that were born special

pseudo higher beings to some extent

[dawn sluice]

make sense given white lady greyroot

[fathom hill]

but honestly what would gms even supposed to be in that case

she is just like a lady not a former anything right

[fervent sigil]

greyroot is a hb?

[hearty bolt]

Who tf knows

at least root and forky were able to make kids of their own, silk cant do shit without spinning herself

[lethal bridge]

Or could be genetically modified/experiment to replicate higher being

[fathom hill]

Greyroot is not but the white lady is, both seem to be the same "nature" of sorts

also wyrms aren't all pale apparently

[dawn sluice]

but they do love to create kingdoms

or villages

or something about a thrall

[fathom hill]

yah but pale beings also seem to have some of the worship thing

[hearty bolt]

White Lady is more of a soul tree root while Greyroot is more of a petrified snake tree?

[fervent sigil]

the curse is actually so fucking strong to suck the essence out of both gms and hornet

[fathom hill]

since Hornet's worship thing is attributed to her pale nature, not really wyrm nature

[lethal bridge]

Pause

[fervent sigil]

?

[fathom hill]

unless those are synonyms or just overall referencing her father

[dawn sluice]

well that’s because gms got stabbed 50 times

[fathom hill]

Mmm

[dawn sluice]

also
is the shade lord a pale being or a higher being

[lilac hedge]

yeah because i obliterated gms with rays of fucking volt and cog wheels beforehan

[fathom hill]

What were the higher beings characteristics again

[fervent sigil]

ah

[lethal bridge]

Pale -> ascended to become -> higher

[fathom hill]

Just mentioned ? why wouldn't greyroot be a higher being

[vestal swan]

Existing above all others

[lilac hedge]

so pale lurker is higher ranking than a higher being

[lethal bridge]

Nah he became higher but was pale

[fathom hill]

No wait greyroot is not higher cuz it doesn't have merit alone

[dawn sluice]

what are our known higher beings

[fervent sigil]

isnt pale lurker a bug whos obsessed with pale king and called themselves "pale"

[lilac hedge]

he what

[vestal swan]

Greyoot doesn't really have an exclusive god comparable powers she's exploiting a spell/possession thing and her own bloodline to stay immortal

[fathom hill]

the reason why it fucks up hornet is cuz it's drawing from her no?

since it needs a host

[vestal swan]

Yeah

[dawn sluice]

weapon steel can you get out a list

[lethal bridge]

GMS(?), radiance, shade lord…

[fervent sigil]

NH?

[lethal bridge]

Tiny boi knight is pale, shade lord is higher

[lilac hedge]

unn is higher being ight

[lethal bridge]

Oh yeah I forgor

[fathom hill]

gms is pale alongside with higher

[vestal swan]

Pale King
White lady
Nightmare heart
Grandmother silk
Unn
Nyleth
Mr mushroom
The knight

[fathom hill]

Nyleth is higher?

[vestal swan]

I feel like I forgot one

She qualifies but some people just discount her because they think she's comparable to another shitty character

[fervent sigil]

similar to unn so yeah maybe ig

[lethal bridge]

Mush is higher????

[dawn sluice]

TROBBIO

[dawn sluice]

lifeblood being?

[fervent sigil]

in godhome?

[vestal swan]

I was about to say the lifeblood beast might be one but, still unconfirmed

We also have the two dead ones from the land of storms

All three of those are maybe

[fervent sigil]

god of rain and thunder

[dawn sluice]

conditional higher beings:
greyroot (twisted child)
the knight (dream no more/embrace the void)
hornet (weaverqueen)

[vestal swan]

TK is one by the end of the game and is one by the events of silk song so
But also yeah those two are potentials depending on two different endings

[fervent sigil]

i forgot one

[lethal bridge]

Since when is annoying root baby higher???

[fervent sigil]

Zote

[dawn sluice]

twisted child

[vestal swan]

When it eats GMS and hornet it's probably going to steal their power and ascend

[lethal bridge]

Right

Yeah

[fervent sigil]

speaking of zote yall think he went to pharloom?
specifically shellwood

[vestal swan]

No

[tepid mountain]

Radiance is a HB, yeah?

[vestal swan]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about her lol

[fervent sigil]

i mean his "destroyer" is shellwood

[dawn sluice]

anyway let’s talk about higher beings having children
do two higher beings having a child make another higher being, or a potential higher being?

[vestal swan]

It's not specific enough and there's nothing suggesting he's been through the area

[fervent sigil]

"A self-proclaimed Knight, of no renown. Wields a nail he carved from shellwood, named 'Life Ender.'"
its hypothesis tho

[vestal swan]

we can't answer that question yet, because none of them lived that we know

[dawn sluice]

of course the radiance is the one we forgot about LOL

[vestal swan]

We're going to start to glow orange now

[lilac hedge]

i dont think shellwood was a concept in silksong when the zote description was made

[dawn sluice]

what do yall think

[vestal swan]

In universe a lot of things just get really descriptive names so shellwood doesn't even necessarily mean the same material as his weapon, it could just be a similar thing

[fervent sigil]

pale oil too

[fathom hill]

I would argue

[dawn sluice]

maybe it’s because they’re white as pale

[lilac hedge]

bro i said it as a sarcastic question bro gawd damn

[lean temple]

Or that she likes PK, or that she's white lol

[fathom hill]

not immediately if that makes sense

[frigid belfry]

I think a hb child has the potential to be one, but isn’t guaranteed

[fathom hill]

yah that's what i believe

[vestal swan]

This would be a much easier question to answer if PK and white lady decided to keep one normal kid

[pale narwhal]

there are a couple here
nyleth and mister mushroom?

[lethal bridge]

Are weavers pale, higher, or neither?

[fathom hill]

like it needs something to happen or to be done by them to be considered higher

[dawn sluice]

pale pail

[olive quartz]

yeah no

[lilac hedge]

ascended pharlids ig

[dawn sluice]

ascended

[lean temple]

Pale also can relate to purity
As far as we know only pale ore is described as cold or icy, and paleness could be tied to ooul in general.

[vestal swan]

None of the above

[dawn sluice]

NEW BOSS
THE PALE PAIL

[lethal bridge]

What’s the difference between ascended and higher again?

[frigid belfry]

Regular bugs, they aren’t higher but certainly special in that they’ve been ascended by GMS

[vestal swan]

They were lied to about being divine

[fervent sigil]

herald made wastes?

[pale narwhal]

what

[fathom hill]

ascended bugs

[olive quartz]

consider that "hardwood" is an entirely descriptive term referring to just. wood that is hard. in the same sense i would argue shellwood is merely "wood that is hard like shell," and pharloom shellwood is not necessarily the same shellwood as zote's needle

[fathom hill]

that's kind of what we know abt them and may be long lived

[lilac hedge]

some pharlids that were ascended by gms and tricked to believing they were divine beings, but still they are pretty strong

[pale narwhal]

or could also be like having a region called the pine forest.
it wont be the only species of tree with that name

[lean temple]

The same fungi as in fungal wastes just spawn in where MM's tablet is

[fervent sigil]

so there are types of shellwood

[frigid belfry]

Could the difference in limb structure with some weavers be from their origins, some were diver pharlids and some were normal pharlids?

[vestal swan]

It's not confirmed but the terminology is not specific enough to confirm where his weapon is sourced from either

[lilac hedge]

like it could be a material from any kingdom or place but its js not specified

zote would get slimed by some pondcatchers in shellwood

[fervent sigil]

even the pond creatures themselves which are harmless LOL

[frigid belfry]

Find all fleas, also use the #sk-help channel

[fervent sigil]

#sk-help #sk-help-2

[frigid belfry]

Go to the caretaker in song leave

Songclsve*

[fervent sigil]

silk and soul isnt just "flea to lake" and "all wishwall quests"
do you have a bellhome

[lethal bridge]

All aboard the anti-ZOTE agenda

[frigid belfry]

Btw have you done the Cursed Ending?

[lean temple]

What's the evidence for Nyleth being higher?

[frigid belfry]

Act 3 locks you out of it

[frigid belfry]

She probably isn’t, but near unn level feats

[safe gorge]

am i the only one who thought after beating widow the quote "her light makes our song heard" smth smth was relating to radiance?

[vestal swan]

Her sort of creation feat
Control of the area
The citadel decided to make peace with her instead of fighting her

[fervent sigil]

you need one for silk and soul

[abstract rivet]

How many Vaultkeepers are there

[lean temple]

Wouldn't the Shamans or Hornet have mentioned her higher status

[abstract rivet]

I highkey forgot

[lilac hedge]

i think hes just very very very lucky and has plot armor from tc

[frigid belfry]

2 confirmed we see

[lethal bridge]

I just did it this morning, peak fiction

[fervent sigil]

did u fight lace 2 in the cradle

[vestal swan]

I mean she's basically dead, they basically just say go collect her heart. The fact that she was powerful is the only thing they care about

[safe gorge]

too many

[lean temple]

I guess. I'll place her with the potential higher beings

[frigid belfry]

Have you gottten witch crest?

[lilac hedge]

alive or dead or both

[lethal bridge]

Evil baby

[frigid belfry]

Good, explore the right whispering vaults, there’s a secret entrance up a wall

You should know what to do from there

[abstract rivet]

idk all

[frigid belfry]

Finally, once you do it, do NOT get rid of the thing u get, go fight GMS while under that effect

[vestal swan]

#sk-help-2 @austere hinge

[lethal bridge]

Wouldn’t the start be in shell wood??

[frigid belfry]

I’m assuming he’s done the pollip quest

Mhm

[vestal swan]

Take the help talk to the help channels

[frigid belfry]

Fraud watch nyleth

[vestal swan]

That's about Carmelita

[frigid belfry]

EBay unn with 0 feats

[vestal swan]

Carmelita basically set up a nature preserve

[fathom hill]

tbf karmelita was confirmed to just be a very strong bug

[abstract rivet]

I know this is a very stupid, most unrelated question but do you guys think there’s Hallownestians/Pharloometons who knew about the other kingdom, cus if the Citadel can capture Hornet it might indicate theres a path to it

[lilac hedge]

bro move out of the channel please

[fathom hill]

cannot know abt nyleth but we can discard karmelita

[vestal swan]

I think Carmelita is just singing to the plants and the fact that she's secluded the area from The citadel is basically what saved it not some mystical power (aside from her music)

[fathom hill]

No i mean some of them may have some ties with their areas

yknow the whole green prince thing

or khann though he is a bit different

[vestal swan]

Yeah that's really weird and kind of contradictory to what the shaman said though

[pale narwhal]

why is Karmelita so big tho

[fathom hill]

also a fall of shellwood is kind of iffy since

[fervent sigil]

is CCK pale or hb

[lilac hedge]

she old

[vestal swan]

Bc Queens do that for some reason

[abstract rivet]

how does Grand Mother Silk haunt a bug? We know that The Radiance offers unison and greater power to the bugs as an lie till they cannot resist it, yes Whiteward Experiments i know i know but some people state bugs can be haunted without silk implantations

[fathom hill]

hornet says its already such a delicate ecosystem on itself

[vestal swan]

This is not an either or question and you can see that he's not pale

He's also not a higher being

[fathom hill]

so maybe anything can fuck up shellwood even if not nyleths death and we dont see signs of it either me think?

[lethal bridge]

Aura

[fathom hill]

though i may be ignoring something

[fathom hill]

fatass ant

[vestal swan]

Sister splinter was already moving in when nyleth weakened

The gaps are already being covered

[fervent sigil]

"sister"

who's sister tho

[lean temple]

Karms is described as mortal

[lethal bridge]

Also, I haven’t done SS steel soul mode yet. How did SS add to the lore of the steel kingdom?

[lean temple]

And she's a bug, so not HB

[vestal swan]

Maybe nyleths who knows, she calls the Weaver's sisters too but not like her sisters

[frigid belfry]

neither

[olive quartz]

well he could've been, he certainly has unnatural command over the coral itself, although that would be yet another kingdom ruled by a higher being so maybe TC wanted to do something different

[fathom hill]

bet she is so resistant cuz her bigass is in the way of my weapon 💢

[vestal swan]

Coral bending is not exclusive to him, there's a note about it and there's also other enemies that can do it

[lean temple]

Other splinters like her

They could've deposed Nyleth or smthg

[olive quartz]

?

i can't recall any other enemies summoning coral like he does

[limpid summit]

Big dudes sort of summon it

[olive quartz]

there are the big heavy guys and i took that to be like, being heavy and causing shockwaves and such

[fervent sigil]

the big guy in the arena

the running jumping one idk his name

[lean temple]

The big dudes do but Khann seems to have a much higher mastery

[abstract rivet]

dammit

[limpid summit]

He has powerful coral control but that doesn’t really place him “above all others” he’s just a top tier bug

[vestal swan]

• They do not like anybody messing with void but they do have intimate knowledge of how to work with it
• the first pair in hollow Knight we saw jiji and Jinn are apparently how they send out their groups to do studies and search for things, because they send out another pair of steel and bug to pharloom
• The Masters also apparently have some very dangerous and psychotic punishments called compression
• the steel people are made out of growing metal
• part of the steel City or maybe the region is called the home spear (?)

[vestal swan]

If he was the only one able to do this and or it was passed down through like his bloodline then maybe, but it's just something he's really great at yeah

[lilac hedge]

noticed how sometimes in choral chambers some bugs wake up and a thread of silk flashed in the screen? thats how they get 'haunted'

[lean temple]

Addition
The City seems to have spires on the surface with some area or cavern under it

[lilac hedge]

or well in most places actually

[lethal bridge]

Fire

[vestal swan]

Oh right yeah they might have a mobile fortress

[limpid summit]

Compression compression compression 🗣️🗣️🗣️

Love compression

[fathom hill]

compression may be them becoming steel sheets

[limpid summit]

I can’t believe steel fans are eating so good and we don’t even have Sharpe yet

[fathom hill]

to further structural use

[lethal bridge]

Buzzsaws

[fathom hill]

god i wish

[lean temple]

I think so too

[vestal swan]

It's explicitly a punishment that Zi has undergone

[olive quartz]

we see evidence of how bugs get haunted in the cut ending (cut yes, but cut in a very conspicuous way, the entire cutscene was seemingly left in as a treat for the dataminers) where the silk threads kind of just grab them and ensnare their minds

[lean temple]

Interesting how Steelhearts can "grow". Jinn describes herself as young, while Zi seems more matured.

[fathom hill]

some kind of reshaping then?

[lilac hedge]

that happens in the game too sometimes

[fathom hill]

why would it be called that then

[lilac hedge]

yk

[vestal swan]

Well since they are made out of growing metal I think they're just able to reform from this being flattened punishment

[lethal bridge]

Forging?

[vestal swan]

I don't think it's like a permanent shape changing thing

For the steel people anyway

[olive quartz]

of course this is after hornet gets combined with GMS or whatever but the idea of silk threads descending upon and ensnaring bugs is broadly supported by the lore

[fathom hill]

cue hornet hidraulic press gif

[twin dragon]

Id take that as a sign of shellwood's early decay

Plus, nyleth as a whole IS shellwood

[fathom hill]

too on the face id think

[vestal swan]

I mean she's not literally shellwood but she is connected to it in a way different than Unn is to her creations, seemingly

[fathom hill]

plus ig forging can be not a punihsment

[twin dragon]

She grew out to become shellwood iirc

[fathom hill]

compressing just sounds violent

[twin dragon]

Since she's known as "the first seed"

[fathom hill]

what would i know i hacvent even checked those dialogues

my steel run is kind of there unused in that regard

[vestal swan]

She's called the seed, it doesn't mean it's all literally connected to her, they could be mostly her descendants or something

[lethal bridge]

Maybe they punish weak 2 become stronger like how if u compress carbon enough it becomes a diamond?

[vestal swan]

There's a short video that has all of these steel soul related exclusive content in it it's like 4 minutes long I can grab it if you want

[twin dragon]

We don't rlly see mentions of that anywhere

[fathom hill]

Could be

[lilac hedge]

i mean her attacks in battle literally resemblence the bugs of shellwoods attack so its pretty obvious

[twin dragon]

All that's remembered is nyleth herself

[fathom hill]

may it's steel binding what the punishment is

[vestal swan]

Its said she can control it and let people pass safely through the woods

[arctic cliff]

Lore meme :
Styx : 👞 👟 🥾 🥿 🩴 👡

[twin dragon]

I meant about the baseless offspring thing

[fathom hill]

Like pushing the outter steel armor or something?

[olive quartz]

less that they're literally connected and more that the other stuff grew out from her, but yeah

[vestal swan]

Still that's not necessarily descendants that could be her creating things like her on purpose

[twin dragon]

that's actually what i think is the case

[fathom hill]

but if they are just alive steel people and not regular bug then how

[vestal swan]

Oh I'm not saying that they are guaranteed to be her offspring I just think it's one of the possibilities

[olive quartz]

i mean she's described as a 'seed' and her kingdom is, well, a bunch of plants

[lethal bridge]

Maybe it’s like shell wood and their carapace is just strong like steel

[fathom hill]

what did styx do now

[twin dragon]

Eh, it's hella baseless

[olive quartz]

having them not be her offspring would be rather contrived

[fathom hill]

what did my boywife do

[vestal swan]

Growing metal, probably enchanted by somebody who knows how to mess with metal, my idea is that they are metal homunculi

[twin dragon]

Nyleth had that influence over shellwood for a long time, till recently when the haunting began

[lethal bridge]

Ed…ward…

[twin dragon]

I mean not maybe the haunting but whenever splinters took over

[fathom hill]

you may be onto something

[arctic cliff]

|| he’s changing masks in order to change his personality||

[twin dragon]

Punishment by constriction on steroids

[fathom hill]

right

[late pecan]

Why it blurred

[twin dragon]

When are we getting hk: zaza

[late pecan]

.

[vestal swan]

I'm pretty sure Zi said she was grown from metal so she can't have been placed inside of it

[late pecan]

Never

[lilac hedge]

when gta 6 comes out

[twin dragon]

what abt hk: poshanka

what abt hk: zote

[late pecan]

Gta6 not coming out 😭

[lilac hedge]

thats the point

[twin dragon]

what abt hk: expecting salute

(Featuring elderbug)

[vestal swan]

Drop this tangent please

[late pecan]

WHAT ABBBOUT HK

[lean temple]

Doesn't say so. She says she had a birth but doesn't mention growing iirc

[twin dragon]

What abt hk: Loneliness (featuring the gray mourner)

[late pecan]

Featured chapter FALSE KNIGHT

[lilac hedge]

ok i think thats enough guys

[late pecan]

[lean temple]

Time to pull up Zi's dialogue for the billionth time

[twin dragon]

What abt hk: shut the fuck up nubbie

[vestal swan]

https://youtu.be/n5nOggjz-6U?si=75ZyssQ2GcXKtI7C
If you're a visual learner here's the video I was talking about

[fathom hill]

what happened to the boat

[vestal swan]

I think all of the content is in this

[late pecan]

Nubbie shut the fuck up please

[twin dragon]

he sold it to purchase curry

[silk dirge]

would people here kill me if i said there was like a few days i legitimately thought coral gorge was steel soul exclusive content 😭

[abstract rivet]

which Skarrs arent haunted

[twin dragon]

zote

[silk dirge]

merchant, gurr, boomerang

[visual glacier]

All the mottled ones and karmelita

[silk dirge]

all of which are mottled

[fathom hill]

how

[vestal swan]

I went through the entire game wondering if some of the stuff was going to be steel soul or DLC exclusive content as I noticed things were missing lol

I did not expect so many things to be crammed in last minute

[lean temple]

"A small gift for you, pale It... for the thought, complex... rock of the home spear... and of Zi's birth. May it aid your further action in this land." Zi

"Cold, steely stone with remarkable regrowth capacity." Growstone

[abstract rivet]

Coral Forest was my biggest anticipation in the game

Sad that i only saw an enemy gauntlet of it

[frigid belfry]

Wydm, pharloom bay is steel soul only in act 4? Along with blackwyrm

[lilac hedge]

coral forerst being turned into a dream arena was top 10 dissapointments

[fathom hill]

we may get it

[silk dirge]

i mean the steel enemies in the first trailer being there and someone made a really misleading message on discord lol

[fathom hill]

some have sais that it's too much of a developed area to actually be scrapped altogether

[arctic cliff]

There’s higher being writings on growstone above Zi

[abstract rivet]

We, silkgrims will not give up hope on the holy team cherrydel to grant us eternal song (coral gorge)

[silk dirge]

pharloom bay im confident is coming back

[fathom hill]

we may see it, we may not

[silk dirge]

so thats atleast good

[lean temple]

Higher Being writings?

[abstract rivet]

Fuck Pharloom Bay i’m not even interested in it

[frigid belfry]

Kinda likely it may be dlc along with pharloom bay, both are hinted at in game text

[abstract rivet]

Give me my coral gorge

[arctic cliff]

Yeah

[fathom hill]

Oh right some steel assassins were there i believe

[vestal swan]

All of the things that are cut or missing have a potential to show up in DLC but there's no guarantee, a lot of things are definitely going to die on the cutting room floor

[fathom hill]

the one that shoots lasers

[abstract rivet]

i bought like 7 copies of Silksong i need my coral gorge

[silk dirge]

star being the one person who actually ever wanted the gloom in shambles

[abstract rivet]

10/10 game regardless with coral gorge itd be 20/10

[frigid belfry]

Grand Dad Steel confirmed

[fathom hill]

You had to save for the physical release

Rookie mistake

[lilac hedge]

to beatiful to be true

[arctic cliff]

Steel assassins have guarantee, because backer didn’t even knew about their remove

[fervent sigil]

do we know another about green prince's lover

[twin dragon]

moss mother

[lean temple]

Sorta? There's also the rune around her as well

[fathom hill]

Also funny how only thing they left from the coral place is that one ascent

[abstract rivet]

An lush, beautiful, stunning area with life and hope? Not in MY Pharloom!

[arctic cliff]

Yeah

[fathom hill]

i still pogged but yknow

[fervent sigil]

isnt he gay

[abstract rivet]

Choral Chambers was beautiful but to achieve such marvel in architecture Coral Gorge, Verdania, Greymoor had to be screwed over. Never forget

[fathom hill]

I'm too easily surprised

[lilac hedge]

canon in lore too btw

[abstract rivet]

What is Khann even about

[twin dragon]

Citadel is legit the single best thing in both games

[frigid belfry]

Crust

[twin dragon]

mr krabs

[abstract rivet]

i mean yeah, it really gives you vibes of You’ve gone through suffering, here’s heaven while being sinister as fuck because Citadel isn’t heaven, its the creature of the devil

[twin dragon]

moss

[vestal swan]

!wiki steel seer zi

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Steel_Seer_Zi

[fathom hill]

tyrant king that used to occupy around half of pharloom

[twin dragon]

its so well implemented and aesthetically pleasing

[abstract rivet]

I would compare City of Tears to Greymoor more because of their positioning and similarities yk

[fathom hill]

one day the coral place dried, we guess citadel action

and he kind of just died

[twin dragon]

Meh city clears

[abstract rivet]

Citadel is kinda overkilling City of Tears if we compared

[twin dragon]

Since greymoor isn't that important in comparison

[frigid belfry]

Progression wise it’s a bit more like CoT though than the citadel

[fathom hill]

apparently had beef with the skarr

[abstract rivet]

“isnt that important” Twinster Popsicles..

[snow sonnet]

I thought the steel assassin bosses would be steel soul exclusive

[abstract rivet]

Both Greymoor and City of Tears give you a spell and not a movement upgrade

[lilac hedge]

greymoor is so big but feels so small man

[abstract rivet]

Both have rain, both have sorta emotional soundtrack

[olive quartz]

i genuinely thought on first entrance to greymoor with the rats and crows aesthetic i was in the poor part of the citadel

[twin dragon]

Lore wise doe

Plus ig less variety of environment and is smaller

[frigid belfry]

Most of it is open space and ambience rather than city of tears (mostly denser)

[olive quartz]

yeah greymoor is a moor so it has a lot of flat space to run through

[fathom hill]

do we know why is it raining silk in greymoor

[lilac hedge]

you get 2 crests there so its still goated ngl

[abstract rivet]

Bug waste

[lilac hedge]

silk lake obviously

[frigid belfry]

It’s the waste silk dregs from the citadel

[abstract rivet]

Nah to be real idk

[vestal swan]

Untended machines

[fathom hill]

Oh

so it is really microplastics

[frigid belfry]

Who do we think placed phantom in the exhaust organ, because I doubt it was willingly

[vestal swan]

[fathom hill]

silk in the waste?

[olive quartz]

gms no?

[twin dragon]

Even something as corrupt as the citadel fucking recycles

[abstract rivet]

I would compare The Citadel to nothing in Hollow Knight because its just its own thing and the positoning is an end game area while in HK theres no one big end game area

[frigid belfry]

!wiki phantom

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Phantom

[twin dragon]

It's actually mid game

The "end game" area would be the abyss if anything

[olive quartz]

bro hasnt gotten to act 3

[abstract rivet]

tbh it takes mid game and end game

[abstract rivet]

I did lol

[lilac hedge]

and dont forget infected crossroads but for act 3 its all of pharloom

[twin dragon]

yeah its so large

[twin dragon]

Oh yeah

[fathom hill]

Id say end area its more of the surface since the bg thingy after act 3

but yeah the story is kind of going down to up to down to up

[abstract rivet]

Citadel is Mid and End Game area

[valid coral]

So a hub area?

[abstract rivet]

It’s kinda in a grey area cus its kinda fucking big

[olive quartz]

as in you spend a bunch of act 3 in the citadel? sure

[frigid belfry]

The hub area

[olive quartz]

but you can essentially explore the entire citadel in act 2

hell that's more or less the point of act 2

[abstract rivet]

City of Tears and Greymoor is what I’d compare

Citadel is just its kinda own thing

[twin dragon]

I would honestly compare the choral chambers alone to city

[valid coral]

It is quite literally called "Citadel of Song"

[twin dragon]

And i'd still say choral chambers clears

[abstract rivet]

Greymoor would be better with memorable soundtrack and more lore

[olive quartz]

honestly yeah because city is so branching

[twin dragon]

mf are you saying choral chambers isnt memorable

and that it has more lore..

[abstract rivet]

Its size is as big as Choral Chambers yet isn’t as memorable you know

[abstract rivet]

bro cannot read

[twin dragon]

Oh mb youre not comparing

The soundtrack is fine

[abstract rivet]

Why make Greymoor that big if its point is just some farmland smh

[olive quartz]

farmland is big

[twin dragon]

I'd say it needs a dedicated upper area with the windmills

[abstract rivet]

It kinda would fit into the vibes of an cemetery/city area more

[fathom hill]

ig we got really near with the whole craw judge thing

[snow sonnet]

Can't lie I was expecting more of windmills

[olive quartz]

i mean there's wisp thicket literally up a windmill

[twin dragon]

since thicket is ass

[lilac hedge]

greymoor lacks of chill places

[olive quartz]

i'm betting wisp thicket will get an expansion like the hive did

[lilac hedge]

it only got halfway home everything else feels desolate

[abstract rivet]

it lacks soundtrack

[valid coral]

Halfway home and uh, bell shrine? And that's it

[twin dragon]

nah the soundtrack in graymoor's good

It's just quite a bit too linear

[valid coral]

Wisp thicket probably

[olive quartz]

yeah greymoor is pretty desolate. the name is literally grey

[abstract rivet]

Like City of Tears only has Watcher Knights and Soul Master as bosses and both of them are pretty dookie yet its one of the best areas in the game due to the aesthetics and soundtrack and js emotional stuff

[twin dragon]

They better not waste time and resources on that

[solemn hinge]

I thought it was Bluemoor

[twin dragon]

it's fine as it is, i dont think it needs anything

[olive quartz]

they wasted time and resources on the hive and made it better 🤷‍♀️

[abstract rivet]

Greymoor has unmemorable soundtrack, the boss there is like super mid and the second act 3 boss is very goofy n all

[valid coral]

Everyone forgets my goat golden husk

[twin dragon]

soul master and knights are good fym

[abstract rivet]

knights is a dookie boss

[solemn hinge]

Not really

[twin dragon]

nuh

[abstract rivet]

The Boss AIs just act independently which hurt the design

I wish it had Mantis Lords level cordination

[solemn hinge]

It has a semi-high difficulty curve, but no, they’re pretty good

[abstract rivet]

boss design wise nah

[olive quartz]

i think yall are forgetting how fucking enormous this game is. like greymoor is as big as city

[twin dragon]

thats the whole point

[solemn hinge]

I’ll have to disagree with you there, they’re a pretty fun boss imo

[twin dragon]

And they rlly aren't unfair in any way

[abstract rivet]

Far Fields is bigger than Choral Chambers right LMAO

[solemn hinge]

Just hard to get used to

[olive quartz]

well including upper far fields in act 3

[lilac hedge]

far fields and bilewater might be the biggest areas in the whole game i think

[twin dragon]

Moorwing's a good boss, crawfather's decent

[fathom hill]

never judge a man for the size of his kingdom

[abstract rivet]

Bilewater is small compared to others

[fathom hill]

pk thought it would be the last civilization ok

[lilac hedge]

idk its pretty big

[solemn hinge]

It takes up a lot of area, but it doesn’t have as much volume

It’s not a very dense area

[abstract rivet]

bilewater ain’t big its just the double size of Pharloom Bay and Putrified Ducts

[twin dragon]

holy shit city is lowkey small

[lilac hedge]

i dont remember that area in my save ngl

[teal drift]

If they were brave, ducts would sumplu be bilewater extended

[snow sonnet]

I feel like hk areas just had more in them but idk if that's nostalgia

[abstract rivet]

Deepnest has more volume than every area right

[twin dragon]

bilewater has a lot of shit what..

[olive quartz]

hollow knight as a whole is lowkey small

[solemn hinge]

It’s not as dense, still really big tho

[olive quartz]

entirely nostalgia and also we are 2 months into silksong

[twin dragon]

I found it to be like, one of the most filled areas

[lilac hedge]

the smallest area gottabe the cradle tho right

[solemn hinge]

Fair enough

[teal drift]

Combine sinners road, bilewater, and ducts into one super bilewater

[vestal swan]

It's literally full of shit

[twin dragon]

Maybe because i enjoyed the platforming too much

[abstract rivet]

Nostalgia Merchant most likely

[lilac hedge]

in both senses

[solemn hinge]

That, then probably Atla after that

[teal drift]

I think she meant bilewaters literal surface area isnt big relative to the size it takes up

[abstract rivet]

I mean Hollow Knight does vibrant areas more than Silksong, also it does it with consistent highs, Silksong is higher highs and dookie dooks

[twin dragon]

Meh, hk's areas were a bit too gray

[solemn hinge]

For example, in terms of map layout, Deep Docks is a lot more dense than Bilewater

[olive quartz]

silksong starts with the most vibrant area in either game lol

[twin dragon]

It had very vibrant areas, but very bleak ones aswell

Silksong also has brighter colors

[abstract rivet]

yes but the next area you meet is skulls n lava

[olive quartz]

and that's fucking awesome

[abstract rivet]

then the next one isn’t that vibrant

[solemn hinge]

To be fair, HK didn’t even have anything like that

[olive quartz]

there is lava

[lilac hedge]

lava was a very cool addition tbh

[twin dragon]

its machinery and lava yippie

[vestal swan]

Coral:

[abstract rivet]

Then the next area is depressing shade of grass which is fuck that

[olive quartz]

and then you go into a big steampunk dock over the literal lava lake and it's awesome

[twin dragon]

nah what far fields is goated

I rlly love how they combined the lava with vegetation

[lilac hedge]

going to abyss by deep docks is such a cool concept but having to go there everytime you missed something sucks

[abstract rivet]

It’s colour pollution really

[timber pond]

Tf you mean, the contrast and colors are LITTERALY brighter😂

[olive quartz]

yeah the lava jungle makes no sense but is still awesome. and need i mention in that area you fight a Literal Giant Robot

[solemn hinge]

I’m sorry but just because some areas in SK are muted in terms of colors, doesn’t mean HK’s areas aren’t almost all that way

[abstract rivet]

nah Far Fields is goated

[lilac hedge]

prob just sent to hunt misstress but got stuck by some rocks

that fell

[olive quartz]

you get to drop a giant rock on the head of a giant robot while fighting it over a sea of lava. far fields is fine

[abstract rivet]

I’m more fan of blueish-bright green-pinkish areas in Video Games or Yellowish

[twin dragon]

It does make sense though, its not like the fkin lava is charring everything everywhere

[olive quartz]

and then you go through a satisfying parkour segment into the legitimately dull and drab greymoor which is so obviously a stylistic choice

[abstract rivet]

Bilewater is like my favourite area

[solemn hinge]

It has good real estate

[abstract rivet]

anyway the depressing areas of Silksong fits to the narrative and lore well

[olive quartz]

they didn't just like, forget to make greymoor colorful

[abstract rivet]

I thought Greymoor was gonna be an cemetery not gonna lie lmao

[snow sonnet]

I miss my coral gorge
I miss my hunter's nest
I miss everything

[timber pond]

Choral chambers and Mt Fey have brighter yellows and Blues than things in hollow knight lol

[abstract rivet]

Why tf does it have a graveyard

[olive quartz]

genuine question what are said bad parts of silksong to you

[fathom hill]

if only we got a refight

[abstract rivet]

probably Sinners Road and Deep Docks

[olive quartz]

bad as in you didn't like playing through them or bad as in you don't like how they look

[fathom hill]

that one chorus in underworks must have been it man

[abstract rivet]

I just wasn’t the biggest fan of Deep Docks but I loved Cogwork Corr

[noble magnet]

How is deep docks a bad area

[lilac hedge]

deep docks is an very amazing place dont let me hear you dissing my goat deep docks again deep docks is cool

[silk dirge]

deep docks is goated wtf

[fathom hill]

to actually give underworks a boss too

[abstract rivet]

All areas were cakewalk to me so I can’t decide to be fair

I don’t like how Far Fields looks

[olive quartz]

figuring out how to get out of the clawline room is the boss

[lilac hedge]

the boss is going to a bench after dying 20 times and having to pay 15 rosaries each time

[silk dirge]

deep docks haters get flintflame thrown at them irl

[abstract rivet]

i value atmosphere more than anything in areas

which is why I love Choral Chambers, City of Tears, Bilrwater etc, packed with lore and atmosphere

[fathom hill]

aura based mf

thats fine

[olive quartz]

ok but this is hardly lower lows than hollow knight you just didn't like the theming of two areas

[abstract rivet]

yeah I like Silksong more than Hollow Knight

I just don’t like how Far Fields looks lmao

[timber pond]

Pepole probably open the door of doom with a key early in the game and find bigbellchung and big explosion Crack man and start to hate it lol

[solemn hinge]

Absolute word salad

[timber pond]

Hot take: Pepole hate the game not because of difficulty, but because the areas that have darker themes are harder becauseof thier themes and dont want to admit it. The list of rage spots are: Sands of Karak, Blasted Steps,underworks, all bile sections, Mt fey. Hmm i wonder what these all have in common

[lapis creek]

the lows of hollow knight are royal waterways i think silksong wins pretty easily

[tawdry flare]

Double damage platforming?

[lilac hedge]

who ragequits in blasted steps

[silk dirge]

yeah i hate ducts but waterways is worse no question lol

the only redeeming quality is dung defender

[timber pond]

Pepole who die to last judge and have low tolerance lol

[lapis creek]

oh i forgot about ducts but theres like nothing there so it's fine

[unique canopy]

Enough people that they nerfed the Last Judge runback

[solemn hinge]

That’s a pretty big redeeming quality idk

[lapis creek]

actually no waterways are still worse

[silk dirge]

the barnaks make ducts better than waterways

[snow sonnet]

The only good thing about ducts is using those enemies that grab you as a mechanic

[silk dirge]

does fleatopia even count as ducts

[past cypress]

I didn't fight Last Judge until late Act 2 in my first playthrough

[silk dirge]

i dont count it

[lapis creek]

i wouldnt say theres anything particularly good about ducts apart from fleatopia but hey at least it's not waterways

[lilac hedge]

what are is fleatopia in then?

[silk dirge]

fleatopia

[abstract rivet]

Dark Souls 3 was my childhood I vibe with Silksongs areas

[timber pond]

And just like waterways ,they are gonna add 2 random rooms that lead to the boss rush mode

[snow sonnet]

End of right side of putrified ducts

[abstract rivet]

damn its been 8 years since I platiniumed Dark Souls 3 when I was 9, im 17 now wtf

Anyway

[silk dirge]

flea minigames are too good to be considered part of ducts

[lapis creek]

fog canyon also kind of sucks but at least it's nice to pass through the first time

it's like hunter's march if it were not peak

[solemn hinge]

Fog Canyon is just kinda okay, yeah

[lilac hedge]

'nice to pass through the first time' literally getting obliterated by jellyfishes in less than 10 seconds

[abstract rivet]

My favourite areas Lore-Atmosphere Wise would be

1. Choral Chambers
2. Bilewater
3. Sands of Karak and Blasted Steps aka Coral Gorge

[snow sonnet]

The Hive, Waterways and fog canyon are the only really "just ok" areas I can think of

[silk dirge]

what hk areas feel like wisp thicket

[abstract rivet]

HK has alot of nothing burgers

[past cypress]

Hunter's March is a dead end tho

[solemn hinge]

I like the Hive, mostly because it’s super unique in being very very vibrant

[dawn gyro]

I think maaaybe resting grounds but wisp thicket is really unique

[past cypress]

Now that I think about it I think I may have gone through Hunter's March on my first playthrough to get to Far Fields cuz I thought it was required

[snow sonnet]

I like Hunter's March I just wish we got the actual and more fledged out hunter's nest

[timber pond]

The hive because its a sub area

[lapis creek]

so is fog canyon

[past cypress]

The Resting Grounds ghost area 100% feels like Wisp Thicket

Wisp Thicket might just be top 3 Silksong areas tbh the vibe is immaculate

[lapis creek]

i think bellhart is supposed to have a similar role to resting grounds

[dawn gyro]

yeah except in the wisp thicket the buerning bugs are the like the only bugs that arent haunted bcs they burn the silk inside them

[past cypress]

I wonder what the fuck they were doing there, I like the theory that they burned the silk threads so GMS couldn't control them

[snow sonnet]

Tryna figure out the hk area equivelants is a useless endeavor ngl

[past cypress]

I see Bellhart as King's Station

[lilac hedge]

wisp thicket might be the goat, void and silk are not affected by them cuz fire is goated

[dawn gyro]

I think thats confirmed in a lore entry somewhere

[dawn gyro]

I think the reason bugs get voided is just bcs the strings theyre haunted by get voided

[solemn hinge]

I mean, I guess?

[maiden meteor]

then you break in, kill their god and leave them with nothing to do but burn themselves 😇

[lilac hedge]

W hornet, we made the right bug famous

[maiden meteor]

Hornet proved her innocence by beating the crap out of craw court

[past cypress]

Moss Grotto is King's Pass
Marrow is Forgotten Crossroads
Deep Docks is Greenpath
Hunter's March is Fog Canyon
Far Fields is Fungal Wastes
Greymoor is City of Tears
Bellhart is King's Station

It's fairly straightforward up to that point and then it just completely mixes up cuz Silksong has way more areas

[olive quartz]

welll more complicated than that since the void can't simply manifest wherever it wants

[dawn gyro]

you forget the source of the strings is IN the void

[lilac hedge]

and uninvited coming to the green prince land, destroying every bug there, killing the clover dancers and mocking him in the hunters journal, W hornet

[twin dragon]

that's literally what happens though

[dawn gyro]

thus the void climbed out via the strings

[olive quartz]

in the silk and soul ending we see void-covered silk threads shooting up from below pharloom to latch onto it, presumably GMS anchoring her cocoon to avoid it sinking deeper

[twin dragon]

the totally subtle and not obvious void imbued strings in almost every area:

[maiden meteor]

Still think it’s crazy that Shamans can conjure portals

[abstract rivet]

Marrow can’t be Forgotten Crossroads cus you cant get lost in it tbh

[maiden meteor]

they just can do that

[dawn gyro]

then the void prolly climbed out of the abyss from those strings

[past cypress]

hard disagree, 100% can

[twin dragon]

Do we rlly get lost in crossroads

[abstract rivet]

Bellhart isnt Kings Station lmao its an town

[lilac hedge]

marrow IS the forgotten crossroads, deep docks feels more like fungal wastes

[solemn hinge]

I will say, Hornet does some really dubious stuff in Silksong

[abstract rivet]

why are we tryna compare everything to HK Silksong does alot of its own thing

[olive quartz]

❌ the forgotten crossroads is an area from hollow knight, while the marrow is an area from hollow knight silksong

[maiden meteor]

If power of 3 shamans can make giant portal all the way to abyss does it mean singular shaman can summon lesser portals on their own

[lilac hedge]

invaind green prince land, killing bugs there and clover dancers mocking him in the diary and also killing the god of the flames of a cult and leaving them with nothing else than for them to burn themselves and of course sliming the mini judges

[dawn sluice]

how many kinds of beings do we have
we have powerful bugs (powerful but not too powerful)
higher beings
pale beings
normie bugs
constructs
weird constructs

[lean temple]

Well they needed a ton of soul they've been accumulating for ages plus an ancient Weaver tool

[solemn hinge]

I mean, some of this stuff is arguable (mostly just the last one tho lol)

[lean temple]

HBs, PBs, and constructs aren't bugs, neither are Roots

[solemn hinge]

When does Hornet mock GP tho?

[lean temple]

She says smthg like to love someone so similar to oneself is it selfless or vain

She's pondering a question

[solemn hinge]

I mean, I don’t think that’s her mocking him, just being introspective

[abstract rivet]

City of Tears Soundtrack is emotional and Choral Chambers is while being emotional, it is also haunting, sinister and very religious

[lean temple]

Yeah she doesn't say" lol what a loser"

[dawn sluice]

forgot to replace bugs with beings

[abstract rivet]

There’s a drop in Choral Chambers OST that kinda make the OST Haunting and Sinister

really fits The Citadel

[lilac hedge]

minute 1.04 of the song

am i right lad

[maiden meteor]

choral beats to cage god to

[solemn hinge]

I do really hope DLC addresses that the whole Verdania situation is… really weird

[maiden meteor]

Hornet meets memory of dead GP and he calls her out

[maiden meteor]

Also I wonder, have Citadel higher-ups ever climbed to see GMS’ cocoon

[frigid belfry]

Implied yes

[maiden meteor]

Pontiff’s needoline dialogue implies they have at some point found out about her

[lilac hedge]

you see the ball of silk everywhere in pharloom so that means someone must have seen it and replicated it

[dawn gyro]

ballador says he learned abt the true prupose so ig that means he did see it

[maiden meteor]

interestingly Architect seems unaware

maybe one of previous architects knew

although she does call her directive “cage”

[abstract rivet]

youre right lad

[dawn sluice]

romino may also know

so it may be spread among conductors

[maiden meteor]

we also know that at some point in time Cradle had been connected to Citadel via Terminus

if you don’t count the way Hornet climbs initially

[dawn gyro]

tru be prob knows

[dawn sluice]

then again terminus is blocked off (though accessible) until you go the other way

[wise sand]

He mentions gms in the poem

He def knows

[maiden meteor]

isn’t it because of cave-in or smth

I don’t remember

[dawn sluice]

me neither

[maiden meteor]

also I wonder how choir delivered weaver cages to cradle

Threefold Melody elevator doesn’t seem to go higher than flower field

[lean temple]

The cradle itself seems to be a giant loom siphoning off silk

[dawn gyro]

ah but theres that entrance above the field

stairs mightve existed

[charred radish]

its a locked door

[dawn sluice]

beings we apparently have
we have powerful bugs (powerful but not too powerful)
higher beings
pale beings
normie bugs
constructs
weird constructs
plants
micro-organisms
mass-fluid-organism-thing-idk

[dawn sluice]

so what do the vessels fall under

[lean temple]

Weird constructs?

[dawn sluice]

stuff like vessels, steel things
they’re weird and don’t fit conventional construct things

[lean temple]

And conventional constructs are what exactly

[solemn hinge]

I believe conventional constructs are generally made, not born

Vessels were born, then the funky stuff happened

[dawn sluice]

kingsmould
wingsmould
cogfly
fourth chorus (or weird if the weird butterfly things are souls)

[lilac hedge]

Silkflies its like the lumafly of ss

[lean temple]

I think they're weird constructs. Steelhearts also fall under that category

[solemn hinge]

I have a hard time calling them a construct at all

They’re actually very similar to Kingsmoulds, though

[lean temple]

Even Eva, ig "weird created being"

[solemn hinge]

I mean specifically Vessels

[dawn sluice]

eva is made of runes

maybe they’re normal

[solemn hinge]

It’s just that instead of using armor crafted of Pale Steel, they’re using “armor” of baby god corpses

[lethal burrow]

What does the life blood entity count as?

[whole marsh]

Unnatural being maybe?

[solemn hinge]

Unknown

[dawn sluice]

higher being or powerful bug

[solemn hinge]

We know legit nothing about the Abyss Creature

[lean temple]

The Masters are also unknown

[lethal burrow]

i've been out of the loop what are the big story questions people are trying to figure out?

[dawn sluice]

do you guys think lifeblood counts as micro-organisms or mass-fluid-organism

[solemn hinge]

I don’t know what that means sooo

[dawn sluice]

mass-fluid-organism: like void and stuff like it

[solemn hinge]

I see, probably the former

[dawn sluice]

it’s living but exists more as a material than a being made of material

[lean temple]

Lifeblood seems more like Void

Micro organisms must exist because pickling exists too

[solemn hinge]

I don’t think Lifeblood is very much like Void personally

[visual glacier]

Lifeblood and void seem to not wanna interact tbh

[unkempt vigil]

i am against getting the crests from a lore point of view because hornet seems to be crying out in pain when binding the other crests like i just went back and got the reaper crest (hunter crest is my favourite) and she legit made her death sound before the "this is what you just obtained" screen

[solemn hinge]

Weird reason but ok

[unkempt vigil]

sorry i now realised i interrupted the conversation

[solemn hinge]

It’s fine lmfao

[lean temple]

I meant in the "living fluid/mass" way

[solemn hinge]

Again I don’t think I agree there

[dawn sluice]

where do you guys think we can merge some of these

[lean temple]

Fair I'm having trouble understanding these categories lol

[dawn sluice]

me too

it’s very rough and needs refining

[solemn hinge]

Weird constructs is a bad term imo

[lean temple]

Don't forget fungi and roots

[solemn hinge]

And Pale Beings can be a subset of Higher Beings imo

[dawn sluice]

i thought roots went under plant

[solemn hinge]

We don’t really know

[visual glacier]

Don’t think so

[lean temple]

They don't seem to be plants

[visual glacier]

You’d have to consider hornet a higher being

[lean temple]

They're unique enough to warrant a distinction

[solemn hinge]

I guess so

[lean temple]

And all the vessels

Pale being vs pale higher being

[solemn hinge]

Anyways, if you include Mushrooms, I think there may be some merit in including Moths

The definitely didn’t come about in the way most bugs do

[dawn sluice]

beings we apparently have
we have powerful bugs (powerful but not too powerful)
higher beings
pale beings
normie bugs
beasts
constructs
fungi
roots?
plants
micro-organisms
mass-fluid-organism-thing-idk
mixed organism (between organisms above)
vessel (vessels, grimm)

[lean temple]

Mosskin as well, and you can argue for Weavers and bugs PK uplifted

[solemn hinge]

Vessels just aren’t constructs at all

At no point in the process were they constructed in some way

Lace was woven, Kingsmoulds had their armor forged, Fourth Corus’ body was built

[dawn sluice]

i have no idea where to put them

[solemn hinge]

They’re their own thing I guess

[edgy nebula]

vessels are just hollowed out children

fourth choruses, steelhearts, etc are just constructs with souls

[lean temple]

We still don't fully know what Steelhearts are

[solemn hinge]

How did we even arrive at that name again

[dawn sluice]

technically they go into the mixed category along with grimm and kingsmould and wingsmould

[solemn hinge]

It’s not popping up with a single page when I type that into the wiki

[lean temple]

"The Steelhearts feel so little" -Sula

[solemn hinge]

Silly Wiki moment ig

[solemn hinge]

Why would Wingsmould be included lmfao

[past cypress]

Vessels are normal children of higher beings infused with void

[dawn sluice]

junk drawer

[past cypress]

So I'd place them with the higher beings

[solemn hinge]

Child of Higher Beings ≠ Higher Beings

Of course the Knight is later one but that isn’t relevant

[edgy nebula]

yeah, tk only becomes a hb after voidheart

[dawn sluice]

where does grimm go

[past cypress]

We don't know that

Because we don't actually know what the fuck a higher being is

[solemn hinge]

Okay but we don’t know if they are either

[past cypress]

Only fair to assume

[solemn hinge]

Ehhhh

[past cypress]

Pale King was a HB and so was White Lady, I don't see why the vessels wouldn't be one

Hornet speaks multiple times in Silksong about her divine heritage and shit

[solemn hinge]

Because the traits of a HB might not be passed down?

[lean temple]

Vessel created by the Nightmare's Heart for itself. Hmm

[dawn sluice]

it doesn’t create higher beings
more like something with the potential for higher beingness

[solemn hinge]

Well yeah but they mean her Pale Being stuff

[past cypress]

Which traits

[solemn hinge]

Good question

[dawn sluice]

guess we’re making a new category

[solemn hinge]

I don’t think we explicitly know the criteria for HB

[edgy nebula]

he’s just a vessel for the nightmare heart

[lean temple]

"Exist above all others" is vague af ngl

[edgy nebula]

he’s his own weird thing

[past cypress]

Wait the Nightmare Heart made Grimm?

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[solemn hinge]

Something like that yeah

[past cypress]

Did not know that

[edgy nebula]

It uses grimm to lure in the knight to gain more power by feasting on the energy from hallownest iirc

[past cypress]

But anyway I don't see why HB status wouldn't be passed down. Focusing was passed down

[solemn hinge]

We don’t know if focusing is a HB thing or a PB thing

I haven’t see any other HBs do it

[dawn sluice]

to me, two higher beings dont make a child who is a higher being, but rather one who can become a higher being
like how the knight can become one through voidheart

or how hornet (despite being only half) can do so through weaverqueen

[solemn hinge]

HBs are just not well explained and we kinda have to not make assumptions here

[past cypress]

How does Voidheart make someone a higher being, all it did was "unite the void" whatever the fuck that means

[solemn hinge]

I mean, lines up with the definition we have so far

[dawn sluice]

because it made the knight have ultimate control over void

[past cypress]

No that's Shade Lord I think

It's neither actually

[dawn sluice]

they still have the void heart in dream no more

[past cypress]

Voidheart isn't "ultimate control of the void" as shown in Silksong when the knight has to attack the tendrils

[solemn hinge]

Ughhh oh my god why is this such a common misconception

[edgy nebula]

void heart “unites the void under the bearer’s will”

[edgy nebula]

The shitty retcons strike again

[past cypress]

I'm pretty sure that's less "I control void" and more "The void listens to me"

[solemn hinge]

“Shade Lord” as a term is fanmade and rewords “Lord of Shades”, which is what the Knight is called by the Shade Cloak statue when it has Voidheart

[visual glacier]

Not a retcon

[tawdry flare]

ermmm its name is Void Given Focus actually

[visual glacier]

Void given focus was only stated to be “a large amount” of void

[mossy jay]

The idol of Void Given Focus had a large amount of Void in it.

[solemn hinge]

If I have control over all of everything, that doesn’t mean you necessarily have control of all of it

If you don’t know what something is doing, you can’t control it

[past cypress]

Shade Lord is from the files

[solemn hinge]

It is yeah

[past cypress]

"Lord of Shades" is different

[solemn hinge]

It is not

[past cypress]

Yes it is

[solemn hinge]

Why would it be?

[past cypress]

Lord of X implies you control X

[visual glacier]

Not necessarily

[past cypress]

x Lord implies you are THE x

[past cypress]

In this context it does

[visual glacier]

Also not necessarily

[solemn hinge]

You are placing way too much trust in file names here

[past cypress]

The statue saying "Lord of Shades" is because the shades listen to the Knight now. Void Given Focus being called Shade Lord is because it's quite literally a shade

[past cypress]

Why would they use Shade Lord for Void Given Focus instead of Void Given Form then

[solemn hinge]

Oftentimes, file names will have slightly different names than what it is called in-universe

[solemn hinge]

Again, you are placing a lot of trust in file names

[sinful nimbus]

...so is the lord of shades

[solemn hinge]

Oop, gotta go

[past cypress]

Yeah cuz it makes no sense to call Void Given Focus "Shade Lord" if the Knight becomes the Shade Lord upon obtaining the Voidheart

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[past cypress]

Yeah but the Lord of Shades is more like a commander type thing, Shade Lord is the culmination of a bunch of shades (as shown in Silksong when it flashes during the true ending)

[visual glacier]

We don’t know if that’s the case

[silk dirge]

yeah the shade cloak creature is literally called a hb in the files when im 99% sure it isnt one

[sinful nimbus]

Proof? True ending doesn't even show that

[visual glacier]

Just because a statue thinks of the lord of shades when the void heart is consumed doesn’t mean the knight is the lord of shades

[sinful nimbus]

The distinction between TK and the void after Void Heart is basically non existent the two are referred to as a single entity

This includes shades

[tawdry flare]

the flashes are meant to indicate that both dnm and etv lead into silksong

[past cypress]

So why the fuck did the Knight have to lash the tendrils in Silksong

[sinful nimbus]

What differentiates Shade Lord from its normal form is the Godly Focus from Godhome which amplifies its strength

[tawdry flare]

aura and hype moments

[past cypress]

True...

[solemn hinge]

We have no other canon mentions of Shade Lord/Lord of Shades

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong story is garbage. More news at 8

[solemn hinge]

Okay, pal

[visual glacier]

The name doesn’t really mean anything, shade lord is just how the community refers to void given focus

[past cypress]

Or it's Team Cherry clearing up a misconception left in HK

[sinful nimbus]

What misconception

TK and the void were a single entity in HK

[past cypress]

That Voidheart literally controls the void when it clearly does not

[sinful nimbus]

OK so its a retcon

[solemn hinge]

Clarification

[past cypress]

If it was THAT easy to control THE ENTIRETY OF THE VOID it would've been done long before

Literally all it took was two higher beings btw

[sinful nimbus]

TK didn't need to beat up tendrils in HK

[solemn hinge]

Why would it

[visual glacier]

It influences the void

[sinful nimbus]

Because the void and the knight were the same entity

Silksong has it hit the tendrils because its poorly written and full of retcons

[past cypress]

Correct, like I said a commander-type thing

[sinful nimbus]

The fact that this inconsistency is never explained means its pretty futile to discuss

[solemn hinge]

At no point in HK does Void attack anything other than TK (before Voidheart) or Radiance, which is what TK wants it to do

[past cypress]

The Shades follow the Voidheart but the Void doesn't, if it did then you easily could've overpowered the Radiance's influence on THK

[sinful nimbus]

The two were said to be a single being idk what more to say

[solemn hinge]

There wasn’t even an opportunity for what happened in the True Ending of Silksong to happen

[sinful nimbus]

That's no longer true in Silksong and the Void no longer acts under TK's will

It goes against explicit dialogue IE is a retcon

[solemn hinge]

The Void clearly bends to its will

[sinful nimbus]

...once its beaten up, yes

You didn't need to beat the void into submission in HK because that's not how Void Heart worked

[past cypress]

Dialogue from who exactly

[visual glacier]

Orrrrr the tendrils had momentum

[sinful nimbus]

Bardoon

[dry bridge]

dont void tendrils completely ignore the knight after getting the void heart? Like, they attack the knight when approaching without it, but the void liquid is completely still afterwards

[silk dirge]

physics moment

[sinful nimbus]

Sure if you want to handwave it away its either that or TK aura-farming

In which case Cloth Gaming and Tos are still wrong

[solemn hinge]

They ignore TK. Hornet isn’t TK.

[tawdry flare]

Genuinely I 100% believe it's TK aura farming

[past cypress]

Yeah this

[sinful nimbus]

But frankly I don't think this is the intended reading

It seems as if TC just forgot about HK's lore

[past cypress]

They ignore The Knight because obtaining Voidheart makes you more Void than Pale

But The Knight still can't control them

[solemn hinge]

This reads as you being intentionally obtuse

[foggy fractal]

little weavers...

[past cypress]

Little Weavers is 100% a retcon and I don't mind that tbh

[sinful nimbus]

Its a whatever retcon but its kinda baffling how they didn't make up for the two Deepnest retcons with any more added Deepnest lore

[solemn hinge]

Retcons are not necessarily bad, more news at 8

[past cypress]

You could make up some bullshit explanation like "Oh it's just a little Pharlid that got ascended" but that's unnecessary

[sinful nimbus]

As it stands Deepnest kinda just lost a lot of its lore

[past cypress]

^ person about to say "Herrah wasn't a Weaver in HK"

[sinful nimbus]

Indeed

[past cypress]

I've never seen anyone hate Silksong more than #sk-lore

[solemn hinge]

Herrah was questionably a Weaver in HK, and Hornet was definitely one

[silk dirge]

i think tc couldve done cool shit by having lava dilute void and tks power

[solemn hinge]

Hop over to #hk-lore , lowkey chill as hell over there

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet was not "definitely" a weaver, the Pale King wasn't a weaver neither was Herrah

[tawdry flare]

she wasn't

[solemn hinge]

She literally has the Weaver fit

[tawdry flare]

this was well established prior to silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Also the fact that I absolutely hate Silksong and everything in it is irrelevant to the conversation

[visual glacier]

In hk?? No

[tawdry flare]

she was raised by weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Well yes weavers lived in Deepnest

But she was not a biological weaver herself

[snow sonnet]

Honestly I always saw this just as a "watch yo tone" moment from TK

[silk dirge]

damn i didnt know you suddenly hate cardinius wtf

[snow sonnet]

I don't think voidheart is necessarily retconned from it

[sinful nimbus]

Cardinius is the exception 🗣️

[past cypress]

Which further advances my argument of Voidheart being Authority rather than Control

[tawdry flare]

canonically tk aura farming fr

[foggy fractal]

how about shakra

[sweet shale]

scrounge is better in every way

[solemn hinge]

Also, it’s always the focus of the convo for you ❤️

[sinful nimbus]

No its not

[past cypress]

Herrah being a Weaver was obvious af tbh idk how anyone got that confused

[sweet shale]

im fine with hating silksong but we do not accept cardinius glazing

[snow sonnet]

it likes to do that

[solemn hinge]

Anyways, the only thing showing that Herrah wasn’t a Weaver was appearance and being called a Beast, both of which are dubious

[past cypress]

Her looking different is the same case as Little Weavers where it's just a retcon

[sinful nimbus]

Uh, her appearance was redesigned in Silksong they wouldn't need to do that if appearance was dubious

[cedar skiff]

is this the rite of passage confusing new information with retconning

[past cypress]

But now it's explain by Pale King magic bullshit probably

[sinful nimbus]

Also weavers aren't common beasts

[past cypress]

No tf it wasn't what

[solemn hinge]

Don’t know where the “Beast and Weaver are mutually exclusive” idea came from

[sinful nimbus]

Go rewatch red memory

[past cypress]

She is the exact same

[solemn hinge]

She’s just wearing a different outfit, dawg

[past cypress]

She's missing her mask because Hornet forgot and that's literally it

[solemn hinge]

People change clothes

[past cypress]

Yeah she's just got red drip on lmfaooo WDYM looks different

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I wear the different outfit that removes my entire lower body

[visual glacier]

She’s a bit thinner and only 4 limbs are shown instead of 8

[cedar skiff]

they also redesigned hornet does this mean this is a new character 🤔 💭

[sinful nimbus]

Her limbs are also in different spots

[past cypress]

Notice how it's noticeably wider on the bottom?

[solemn hinge]

Shocking news: people AGE 🤯

[sweet shale]

theyre saying its a retcon

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers don't grow like that as they age

[cedar skiff]

no i know

[sinful nimbus]

Widow doesn't look like that and she's roughly the same age

[sweet shale]

i subscribe to drapemite theory

[past cypress]

Notice how it's noticeably wider on the bottom?

[past cypress]

I think she just got fat due to hibernation and having a child tbh

[sinful nimbus]

That's not inconsistent with the design being changed

[cedar skiff]

all the weavers weve seen look so fucking different except the copy and pastes in the first sinner flashback theres no real substance to this argument

[sinful nimbus]

Like dang are silksong fans actually blind

[solemn hinge]

Yeah and Widow is obviously a different type of Weaver