dev-contrib

[fallen patrol]

as far as I can tell

i mean u should

[patent pivot]

should be a different webhook type at creation i still believe

[fallen patrol]

it would be so cool in some cases fr

no ur thinking of

the interaction response webhooks vs channel webhooks

[patent pivot]

hash-based message authentication code

[stable mountain]

Contacting the moderation team via ModMail

@slow bone is a bot that will relay your messages to our moderation team, so that you can start a conversation with the moderation team. Your messages will be relayed to the entire moderator team, who will be able to respond to you via the bot.

It supports attachments, codeblocks, and reactions. As communication happens over direct messages, the conversation will stay between you and the mod team.

To use it, simply send a direct message to the bot.

Should there be an urgent and immediate need for a moderator to look at a channel, feel free to ping the <@&831776746206265384> role instead.

[patent pivot]

nah i'm thinking of incoming webhooks here

i like danny

[outer oasis]

That's Rapptz, right?

[patent pivot]

https://docs.github.com/en/webhooks/using-webhooks/validating-webhook-deliveries

[patent pivot]

yea

i wonder how many macos core devs we have

i've reached out to orbstack for licenses

wonder if it'll just be me lol

i remember the days where to develop site locally you had to update your /etc/hosts file

those were the days

[fallen patrol]

oh god i do too fuck no aaaaaaaa

traumatized

[patent pivot]

it worked surprisingly well to say how jank it was

[fallen patrol]

you should use the library i'm working on

i checked payloads recently and goddamn they're awesome

I've since reimplemented a visual of pretty much everything identically to how github shows it, with some enhancements

(and github events have slightly more data)

[outer oasis]

I think we all did that as kids

[patent pivot]

part of my university coursework was designing a message authenticataion standard with a hash function we'd designed and built

[outer oasis]

oh god they're everywhere
https://github.com/python-discord/sir-lancebot/commit/040a9ac8403c8757fbe9edceb7b43f79ed1a2243#diff-50c86b7ed8ac2cf95bd48334961bf0530cdc77b5a56f852c5c61b89d735fd711R4

[patent pivot]

i designed something that beat out SHA-1 and that was enough for me

they're the reason you haven't noticed anything

[outer oasis]

Wait a second WTF I swear I just checked that

https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/blob/main/pyproject.toml#L19

[stable mountain]

pyproject.toml line 19

required-version = ">=0.9.7"```

[patent pivot]

that's recent

[outer oasis]

I know we talked about it today and I just went looking for it

Went to Lance, then Python, then Robin, but somehow skipped over it

[patent pivot]

yea

[fallen patrol]

there's so many bots now

[patent pivot]

it is on python as well but in a PR

[patent pivot]

one of the owl corp backburner projects is creating a new bot for all members of the devops team, training it on devops message history and having them chat to each other

i can't wait to become the astral shill at the new workplace in december

[outer oasis]

How does Owl Corp recruit?

Is that where Cicada 3301 winners dissapear to?

[fallen patrol]

oh yeah that reminds me when can i have push access /s

not to the repos idc about that i mean to kubernetes

[patent pivot]

i wonder how many people we have on the owl-corp repos now

[fallen patrol]

[outer oasis]

Better question is how many dogs

[patent pivot]

huh 8 people

1 is my girlfriend in fairness who got added to shitpost

[fallen patrol]

that doesn't count

does she know what git is

[outer oasis]

(she is SWE)

[patent pivot]

yea

she is not SWE lol

she is a cancer scientist

[outer oasis]

o

even more based

[fallen patrol]

omg based

[fallen patrol]

most of the time i try to ask if people know what git is they say no they use jj instead

[outer oasis]

Didn't you say... they had to quit GitHub for accesability reasons

No that was a friend

[outer oasis]

Those are the people you stop talking to

Joe stahp emailing me

Oh that was an invoice

Why is Owl Corp invoicing me?

[patent pivot]

nah that was a friend

[fallen patrol]

also joe if you like jokes i set u up here https://github.com/python-discord/bot/pull/3417#issuecomment-3509097001

[outer oasis]

OH YEAH
Is Thallium still alive?
Because I still need exactly that and I'm going to have to end up writing it myself...

[fallen patrol]

hey @outer oasis gibe thoughts https://github.com/python-discord/bot-core/pull/310#discussion_r2508396705

*please?

[outer oasis]

wow you could at least say

oh ok

[fallen patrol]

have you thought about poethepoet over taskipy

it auto-activates the venv

poe start becomes a valid command over having to run uv run task start

[patent pivot]

where is poe then installed, user packages?

[fallen patrol]

you can also bundle it with the project

[patent pivot]

but then you can't call poe start

[fallen patrol]

i end up.... actually i end up ignoring a lot of the contributing documentation for pydis lmao

i always use uvx prek install -f over pre-commit

[patent pivot]

that's mostly fine as long as the end products end up being in line with the contribution guidelines

[outer oasis]

So uhh
If I'm going to add this
I should probably make sure uv-pre-commit is using that same version, shouldn't I?

[patent pivot]

there's a different between contributing guides and contributing guidelines

[fallen patrol]

yeah

[outer oasis]

error: Required uv version `>=0.9.7` does not match the running version `0.9.4`. Update `uv` by running `uv self update`.

[patent pivot]

poethepoet looks fine but I don't think there's really enough motive to swap something out

taskipy works

save from taskipy going completely archived and unmaintained and becoming broken somehow i don't think there's a huge reason to swap things out

especially not because it'd have to be something that we'd do on all projects — we wouldn't leave half on taskipy and half on poethepoet

[fallen patrol]

looks at bot core and how long it was on poetry
looks at how long sir-robin was on python 3.12
looks at---

[patent pivot]

we have never done python versions at the same time

bot core was on poetry because at the time we moved to uv there wasn't great stuff in uv_build

bot core was intentionally left behind because at that time poetry remained the superior choice for package distribution

[fallen patrol]

you didn't have to use the backend of uv build though!! that's the biggest and most important thing about build standards!! (not annoyed just excited)

I use uv to manage my bot but the backend is flit_core

you use hatchling to manage the site

[patent pivot]

yeah i know we didn't -- but there was less reason to move until uv_build came along

[fallen patrol]

how the hell does the bot get installed huh

there's no build backend

[patent pivot]

it doesn't get installed

[outer oasis]

thats the neat part /S

it doesn't

[patent pivot]

build backends are optional

[fallen patrol]

cursed

[outer oasis]

not really

Applications != packages

[fallen patrol]

fair

but consider src layout

[patent pivot]

though i imagine the actual answer is uv might just use uv_build

[outer oasis]

I still don't understand how you came to this conclusion

[fallen patrol]

agreed thank you

[patent pivot]

poetry was and remains a good tool

[outer oasis]

Ned made the case in #tools-and-devops that it was dumb that uv had an issue for adding a task runner because it was getting too bloated, and we already have enough task runners in the world
But even JS has a basic script runner
https://docs.npmjs.com/cli/v11/using-npm/scripts
It's such a handy thing and its always annoying to have to reach for another tool

[patent pivot]

i see that the two of you have disagreements on poetry, and that's fine, but ultimately poetry is used on 285,000 repositories, and there has to be some reason for that

it's not like it's an outright bad tool

[fallen patrol]

nein

[patent pivot]

it's actually a very good tool and compared to the previous pipenv stuff it's a marvellous tool

[patent pivot]

hmm yea, but this does something ```
uv pip install bot@.
Resolved 57 packages in 1.42s
Built bot @ file:///Users/joe/Projects/python-discord/bot
Prepared 1 package in 721ms
Installed 1 package in 2ms

[fallen patrol]

setuptools

[patent pivot]

(and in case you're interested, uv is used on 148,000 repositories)

[outer oasis]

They failed their one job on purpose

[patent pivot]

this seems like the kind of argument that ends up with the conclusion that they wronged you personally through a minor change that was either inadvertent or unsupported lol

[patent pivot]

(and pipenv is on 132,000)

[fallen patrol]

god pipenv moment

[outer oasis]

I do concede they were we ahead of their time when they came out
But they refused to work with the community on PEP 621 for way too long and it took >10m to lock my repo and it corrupted every week

[outer oasis]

... do you not know what they did?

[patent pivot]

i have not heard this, no

you sound like you are sure this was targeted at you though lol

[fallen patrol]

i already talked about infectious upper bounds earlier today and joe shrugged it off

[patent pivot]

lol, because that is not the case now

[outer oasis]

That's just a design choice
You get to make your own design choices

That wasn't the malicious part

[fallen patrol]

oh?

go on

[patent pivot]

also i really think saying that locking to <4 is a problem is a bit crazy given there has been no discussion of python 4 other than "it won't break retrocompatibility if things happen" iirc

unless i'm fundamentally misunderstanding the problem

hopefully i will have retired by the time python 4 comes out

[fallen patrol]

i can still use (some) python 2 packages on python 3. ones that haven't been updated in years. Its important to maintain support for not breaking if you don't know you will break.

[patent pivot]

yea

which is why it's good that poetry now lets users do that

[outer oasis]

When they released v1.2 they changed the URL for their installer.
They immediately added a 5% chance to fail randomly if they detected you were in CI because "devs don't see warnings in CI jobs". No deprecation periods, just random flaky failures.
https://github.com/python-poetry/poetry/issues/6314

Long story short, I tried to do an emergency bugfix during a demo, I hit that random chance, got confused because I was distracted+an idiot, tried to upgrade my lockfile which took >12m but actually corrupted it - again - so when CI failed again I had to recreated the log file yet again with took another 12m, all while I'm standing there awkwardly with investors staring at me wondering why I'm not pushing any buttons to do the needful.

So yes, I did fuck up and cause my own problems
but its not my fault that they decided to purposely fail my CI for using a version that was still supported

[patent pivot]

but i don't think it was an insane design choice before, it was just a design choice

[outer oasis]

It's also not my fault that it took >10m to lock my dependencies

[patent pivot]

oh yeah i remember this

yea okay so

this was bad

and they did choose the wrong way to do that -- and I completely understand people's confidence being knocked using a tool that does things like that

[outer oasis]

thank you I feel validated

[patent pivot]

but

i don't think it completely writes off the tool at all and I do think that our decision to continue using it for things like bot core was the right one because it was, despite the design decisions and version rollout strategies, the best tool for the job at the time

[outer oasis]

I'm mostly teasing
But you haven't actually explained what you like about it (that I've seen) and I am curious

[fallen patrol]

oh yeah wasn't poetry 1.2 the release that should have been 2.0

[patent pivot]

yea

[patent pivot]

nothing in particular, which is why we've moved to uv, because nothing really kept me liking it

it was just the right tool at the time

[outer oasis]

I can agree with that
I used it for a long time

[patent pivot]

remember at the time we adopted all this the capability of different tools was fundamentally very different

[fallen patrol]

yeah

poetry was THE TOOL at the time

[outer oasis]

When was this last updated?

[patent pivot]

august 2024 apparently

[fallen patrol]

it used to be a fucking pipenv setup that took way too fuckin long to lock and install and oh my god i think i had a nap before my dev env for site was ready

[patent pivot]

it's from https://alpopkes.com/posts/python/packaging_tools/

[fallen patrol]

At work you’re using Python 3.7 whereas your personal project should be using the newest Python version (currently 3.11).
little older than that

[outer oasis]

Because https://docs.astral.sh/uv/concepts/build-backend/ and https://docs.astral.sh/uv/guides/package/#publishing-your-package exist now

[patent pivot]

i'm going by the header

[fallen patrol]

yeah its old

[patent pivot]

not all things within are updated seemingly

This post was last updated on August 29th, 2024.

[fallen patrol]

poetry also supports python installations now

[outer oasis]

oh?

[fallen patrol]

and hatch is adding workspace support and also does pbs

actually everything does pbs now

[outer oasis]

Hatch just finished their workspace support according to the message I read
May not be released yet

anyways
TL;DR: Poetry was slow, flaky, and error prone; and their core team felt very anti-community with the 5% thing and their refusal to support PEP 621
It was a variety of factors, both technical and political, that kept stacking up and up

I'm not just a fanatical hater though, I promised I would try it again when they released PEP 621 support, so whenever my next project idea comes up, I'll be trying Poetry again

[fallen patrol]

iirc poetry still doesn't have dependency-groups support

[outer oasis]

Anyways
We've gotten very off-topic

[fallen patrol]

i need to make libs.advaith.io for python build frontends and build backends.

tracking pep implementation

[fallen patrol]

just had copilot suggest invalid syntax

(god i wish python supported this)

[fallen patrol]

@patent pivot ok i updated webhook handling on botstrap and refactored the check to a method

[patent pivot]

christmas came early

will merge tomorrow when at laptop unless another core dev has any feedback they leave

[fallen patrol]

oh speaking of christmas sir-robin#164 is a hard blocker for christmas :D

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-robin] #164 update aoc to support 12 stars this year rather than all 25

[fallen patrol]

and sir-robin#165

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-robin] #165 aoc: update global leaderboard command and wording for changes in 2025

[fallen patrol]

(thank you)

[royal prawn]

hard blocker huh? i'll be sure to tell all the crying orphans that christmas got delayed because of a pr not being closed

[patent pivot]

lmfao

[fallen patrol]

tbh i don't think that aoc will break until day 13 in a worst case scenario

[patent pivot]

as project manager for Christmas this sounds excellent

our hard blockers are melting into soft blockers thanks to global warming

[fallen patrol]

and we fixed allowed mentions so a random user won't ping everyone accidently

:)

hey joe can i disclose the bug

the particular command at least

actually there's no security policy here

i set my name on github to ```@ here (but no space) and then resynced aoc. This would have caused anyone looking at the aoc leaderboard if i was in the top ten to mention everyone

[patent pivot]

there is a security policy https://pydis.com/security.md

but ya once patched disclose away lol

[fallen patrol]

wow no rewards or incentive smh

[fallen patrol]

granted if you wanted to be malicious you could have just ran &aoc link @ everyone which would have.... so robin regurgitates a lot of user input...

you can still use it to annoy a single user & aoc link @joe.banks but that's a lot less worse than ot0-pinging-90000-people

[patent pivot]

depending on severity people might get a shirt every now and then

no set policy on rewards though

if someone finds an actual breach of snekbox that isn't just resource exhaustion that might be the kind of thing where i might poll the core devs for a shirt or something

[fallen patrol]

Do I get a shirt? I didn't ping 400k people

(unironically I would rep an owl shirt)

[patent pivot]

lol i don't think mention bugs count (not that there is a policy, just my mental policy) -- though this was creative

pinging people is annoying but not major

what did we claim that stupid CVE for

[fallen patrol]

I debating filing a security report to get u guys a cve for fun

[patent pivot]

lol

we have a CVE

CVE-2021-41250

https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2021-41250

it was requested accidentally and i'm still annoyed that it got issued

[fallen patrol]

Lmfao

[patent pivot]

tried to get it cancelled before it got issued but no luck

[fallen patrol]

I would have given you another one :3

[patent pivot]

fortunately they don't get automatically issued lol

[fallen patrol]

Working on fixing the code jam command that causes it

I might just do the simple fix of commands.bot_has_permissions(administrator=False) which SHOULD work

Meaning you can't grant admin as an override to fix the permissions error and have to do it the Right Way

It's sir-robin#156 iirc

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-robin] #156 Bump the ci-dependencies group across 1 directory with 3 updates

[fallen patrol]

Nope

sir-robin#151

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-robin] #151 Permissions Update for CJ12

[fallen patrol]

the bot requires any permission its granting

[fallen patrol]

when did that change lol

it used to have joe count for both

[celest charm]

btw @fallen patrol why is it called SilencedDict when it crashes the entire program instead of silencing errors?

[fallen patrol]

i don't know i didn't change that

that's original implementation

[celest charm]

I know, just an unusual name

...and docstring

[fallen patrol]

Silenced as in the code calling it will never error

[celest charm]

well, it will error but with a SystemExit exception instead of a KeyError exception

[fallen patrol]

...it could just be collections.defaultdict(sys.exit) actually

!e import sys, collections ; di = collections.defaultdict(lambda: raise Exception) ; di.get('hi') ; di['hello']

🤔

oh right

[celest charm]

you need a lambda

[fallen patrol]

!e import sys, collections ; di = collections.defaultdict(lambda: sys.exit(1)) ; di.get('hi') ; di['hello']

[stable mountain]

:warning: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 1.

[No output]

[fallen patrol]

i don't even know why the dict needs to be like that

i have another inkling of an update as i add a cli to botstrap in the next one

[night hatch]

IM HERE TO LEARN HOW TO CHEAT BUT ITS AGAINST TOS SO IM VERY VERY SAD

[fallen patrol]

not sure if i'll add cli first, port to botcore, or toml

probably port to botcore and add cli. Making it optional for the time being while working on it before its ready for all of the bots to be ported

that way dev for bots can depend on pydis_core[cli] which adds some commands for managing the config

mainly configuration sync

but i want to bake as much config that doesn't change into core so it doesn't need to be reduplicated on every bot

I have a good idea for how to do this while still allowing additional configuration entries per config object

and overrides (for whatever reason)

[silver obsidian]

Is this python?

[fallen patrol]

in core:

class _Channels(EnvConfig, env_prefix="channels_"):

    announcements: int = 354619224620138496
    changelog: int = 748238795236704388
    mailing_lists: int = 704372456592506880
    python_events: int = 729674110270963822
    python_news: int = 704372456592506880
    reddit: int = 458224812528238616

    dev_contrib: int = 635950537262759947
    dev_core: int = 411200599653351425
    dev_log: int = 622895325144940554

    meta: int = 429409067623251969
    python_general: int = 267624335836053506

in bot (naming to bikeshed)

class _Channels(pydis_core.config.Channels):
    attachment_log: int = 649243850006855680
    filter_log: int = 1014943924185473094
    message_log: int = 467752170159079424
    mod_log: int = 282638479504965634
    nomination_voting_archive: int = 833371042046148738
    user_log: int = 528976905546760203
    voice_log: int = 640292421988646961

or something like that

[blissful olive]

YAY!

[fallen patrol]

could someone please assign me these issues? https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/issues/137
https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/issues/157 https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/issues/158 https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/issues/159 https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/issues/160

and bot#3415 bot#3418 bot#3420 bot#3402 bot#3405

reason is they show up in https://github.com/issues/assigned which is useful for me to be able to view

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[bot] #3415 code snippet additional character support
[bot] #3418 Support upgrading existing test guilds with botstrap
[bot] #3420 Upgrade configuration to use a toml file over .env.server
[bot] #3402 Issues due to lack of check for when Attachment.content_type is None
[bot] #3405 Configured channels do not exist in server: [('rule_alerts', 1386490058739290182)].

[fallen patrol]

I have pull requests for most of them already, mostly just want the issue tracker to reflect that

[blissful olive]

how did you get the Contributors role?

[fallen patrol]

#dev-announcements message

[blissful olive]

aight

[patent pivot]

i'm disqualified from the latter

[patent pivot]

cannot assign to bot#3402

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[bot] #3402 Issues due to lack of check for when Attachment.content_type is None

[patent pivot]

but others assigned

[fallen patrol]

added comment to that one and the sir robin one as well

[patent pivot]

done

[fallen patrol]

sir-robin ones as well?

[patent pivot]

yea it took a sec to go through

oh not al the sir robin ones worked

fixing

[fallen patrol]

I did so much github ratelimited you :^)

oop forgot https://github.com/python-discord/bot/issues/3414

[patent pivot]

done

why is loki latency firing this morning

[fallen patrol]

.gh repo loki

can i enable the gh commands in #dev-contrib

...actually, can we just enable that in every channel

[patent pivot]

yea

[patent pivot]

yea seems reasonable

.gh repo loki

[dusky shore]

Nuh-uh.

The repository should look like user/reponame or user reponame.

[patent pivot]

yeah

didn't think that works

.gh repo grafana/loki

[dusky shore]

grafana

loki

Like Prometheus, but for logs.

3839 ⑂ • 26900 ⭐ • Created At 16/04/2018 • Last Commit 10/11/2025 at 08:37

[patent pivot]

the log canary latency is firing meaning there is a delay in logs getting stored

i'm going to blame go gc

actually it might be the gateway that's experiencing the latency

I still blame go gc

[fallen patrol]

Given the default user it would probably make sense to default to pydis but I'm not actually sure if that would be more or less user friendly

Thought Loki was a pydis thing anyways

[fervent sage]

maybe having a list of single-name aliases for common repos (perhaps a command that can add them a la OTNs), there's some stuff like
discord.py -> rapptz/discord.py
kubernetes -> kubernetes/kubernetes
etc.
which is talked about enough to warrant being able to bring up the repo without needing to remember what org/account it's under

[patent pivot]

yea not opposed to that

not sure how dynamic it needs to be though

[fervent sage]

yeah the parenthetical was a very optional part

[patent pivot]

I wouldn't really care if it's just a JSON file somewhere -- but I agree would be nice

[fervent sage]

could 100% get away with config options for it because there can't be that many or that need to be frequently added

[patent pivot]

libs we work with, tools we use, etc.

will open a tracking issue

[fallen patrol]

I need to check how ghostty does it

[patent pivot]

.gh repo jb3 fractal

WTF !

.gh repo jb3 fractal

[dusky shore]

jb3

fractal

Rust randomly generated fractal graphics

0 ⑂ • 0 ⭐ • Created At 29/10/2025 • Last Commit 30/10/2025 at 18:40

[patent pivot]

so we want to just support 1 argument

and have it check a map

[fallen patrol]

No I can't take this anymore.

Wait_for_deletion on GitHub embed reply???

[patent pivot]

what

[fallen patrol]

I need that trashcan

[patent pivot]

why

i'm confused

i think the cases where people use commands and then instantly want to delete the messages is something we should try limit where we can

it's just spammy

to those looking at the channel all it appears as is embeds popping up and vaporising without reason

[fallen patrol]

Popping the wrong message

Plus the error handler already deletes itself which already has that behavior

[patent pivot]

yea but for valid responses i don't see why we'd support deletion

[patent pivot]

sir-lancebot#1710

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-lancebot] #1710 Support aliases repositories & default org in .gh repo command

[patent pivot]

ooo actually

[fallen patrol]

I'll come back to this at some point lol

[patent pivot]

HELL yeah

I LOVE MERMAID!!!!

[fervent sage]

[fallen patrol]

how the hell did you write that so fast

[fervent sage]

mermaid is pretty fast to write

[patent pivot]

chris has a claude implant in his brain

i just copied what i wrote initially and told claude to make it mermaid diagram

instant success

[fervent sage]

actually good use for LLMs

[patent pivot]

yeah agreeGe

[fallen patrol]

here it is

https://github.com/ghostty-org/discord-bot/blob/a4e99109acfc206f128f5909cc3c03bc03335dcf/app/components/github_integration/entities/resolution.py#L48-L56

(also great example of a deleteable button which also suppresses an embed)

(consistent ui on .gh wen )

[patent pivot]

someday we should rewrite all our bots from the ground up

me and jc considered rewriting site in elixir one year as an april fools

[fallen patrol]

been doing that on monty recently lmao

[patent pivot]

i think i started, was having a great time, then realised i'd be inevitably let down when we couldn't actually use it, and then stopped

[fallen patrol]

not quite ground up because uh

there's a LOT and I do mean a LOT of edge cases with external apis that were previously solved and don't need to be repatched later

[fervent sage]

re:

One thing I will stipulate is: our aliased version must be the same repo name (e.g. Rapptz/discord.py must be discord.py, not discord, kubernetes must be kubernetes not k8s, etc.)
discord being rejected I fully agree on because it's ambiguous as to the intent, but I'd argue that k8s (especially since single-name repos will only ever be done via a lookup into this dict, it doesn't fall through to somewhere else after) has a clear intent to resolve to kubernetes/kubernetes, I don't think there's any harm in allowing k8s as an alias for it

[fallen patrol]

cough python-discord/kubernetes

.gh python-discord/kubernetes

[fervent sage]

right but that's a separate issue anyway, since kubernetes will already redirect to kubernetes/kubernetes under this issue

[fallen patrol]

true

also hi again alec

[fervent sage]

I don't think there's a ton of cases where I wouldn't agree with "don't change the name" but k8s is so well known as k8s that I'd make the argument that an exception for it is warranted

[fallen patrol]

we should also support k3s too then

-# and we should add support for redirecting flake8 to ruff /j

also why are codesnippets on bot but github info is on lance

[patent pivot]

i disagree that the stars solution is the way to go

i think that's nice, but we should support it in combination with explicitly set aliases

[fallen patrol]

yeah but this way we only special case repos when they aren't the default

[patent pivot]

for example, i would probably be a bit confused if I ran .gh repo poetry and got a result back about Chinese linguistic works (though I appreciate the provided snippet does look for exact match, so this is far fetched)

[fallen patrol]

its quite far fetched and can definitely be fixed afterwards

[patent pivot]

i suggest we just add it in as a step instead of failing out

[fallen patrol]

would make a lot of sense to provide data even if its not what the user wanted: we can't read minds and its literally how search engines work (don't talk about AI)

[patent pivot]

but still support specific aliases set by us

[fallen patrol]

yea

[patent pivot]

I LOVE AI!!!!

actually let's farm this whole operation out to claude

or even better, Fredrick

speaking of I need to fix Fredrick

[fallen patrol]

which means the alias is basically just {'k8s': 'kubernetes'} and nothing else

dope

[fervent sage]

can we have claude rewrite the entire bot from scratch and deploy to prod without reading because claude can do no wrong

[patent pivot]

if we're aliasing repos we may as well just use the fully resolved name lol

no point doing several stages of resolution when we know what we want

[fallen patrol]

fair fair

[fervent sage]

gotta keep the devops team on their toes with extra failure points

[fallen patrol]

my point stands though lmao

the discord.py alias and other aliases don't need to be in there

also we should add caching to @marble shoal (and @stable mountain) for api requests

[fervent sage]

but if they're common and we know them we can save on api requests to github by resolving them from local data

[fallen patrol]

this is a consideration when redoing the async redis cache vendoring: a cache that can be shared between lance and python would be really cool for shared caching

fair but also consider 5000 requests per hour

I'm different I guess, public bot vs pydis bot

[patent pivot]

5,000 requests is a limit not a target

[fallen patrol]

oh i know

[patent pivot]

why do api request when json loads does trick

[fallen patrol]

but we already have inefficiencies in the github code what's one more?

[patent pivot]

bad spirited OSS contribution

caching is an idea we should do for some things

[fallen patrol]

#requestingreview sir-lancebot#1699

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-lancebot] #1699 fix: use one request for GitHub pulls and discussions

[patent pivot]

async_rediscache i think we want to mvoe 1-for-1

but yeah we could add some sort of cache layer backed by redis seperately

the bots have a redis session attached

aiohttp-client-cache will support it outright

[fallen patrol]

sorta.

there's some 304 implementation differences in my testing

here's my custom code

https://github.com/onerandomusername/monty-python/blob/07b105d28bb14a31097de319256ddf773fcb3827/monty/aiohttp_session.py

which also implemented ratelimit storing but I currently don't handle ratelimits lmao

including caching 404s and 410s as those are commonly used by github

I haven't added repo existence checking such as psf/owls#56 so caching 404s is a stopgap for that check

I should but I just... haven't

[fervent sage]

can we replace "sharding" with "caching" in "sharding is the secret in the webscale sauce"

[fallen patrol]

get out

[patent pivot]

server sharting

discord's best feature

sad they renamed it to relays

[fallen patrol]

is this server on a relay or no

[fervent sage]

sad they renamed it to relays, happy that gtao doesn't crash when we edit roles anymore

[patent pivot]

no idea what the threshold is for relays

[fervent sage]

all large guilds are on relay now

[patent pivot]

yea

[fallen patrol]

what is large

250?

[patent pivot]

i know we were at one point — don't know if they have since changed that threshold

[fervent sage]

100k+ for relay iirc, because roles™

[patent pivot]

!server

[stable mountain]

Server Information

Created: <t:1483877013:R>
Roles: 156
Member status: 46,107 366,354

Members: 412,460

Helpers: 161
Moderation Team: 35
Admins: 13
Directors: 3
Contributors: 48
Leads: 6

Channels: 341

Category: 38
Forum: 5
News: 14
Staff: 129
Stage_Voice: 1
Text: 141
Voice: 13

[patent pivot]

oh features doesn't show up in here

[fervent sage]

most stuff is automatically upgraded when it's needed now instead of being a thing so "large guild" is contextual now

[patent pivot]

either way RELAY_ENABLED is in there yea

[stable mountain]

Click here to see this code in our pastebin.

[fallen patrol]

there u go

don't ask how i got it :)

[patent pivot]

invite

[fallen patrol]

no :)

[patent pivot]

client modding

nice

[fallen patrol]

no?

[fallen patrol]

user app

one of the two things in the payload for the guild: id and features

[patent pivot]

well that's considerably more boring

[fallen patrol]

ok fine

invite through a self app

[patent pivot]

the only user app i have is footgpt

[fervent sage]

(also the relay feature is irrelevant for relay now fwiw, when it got full rollout and auto upgrades to relay nodes they stopped applying the feature, but they dont remove features)

[patent pivot]

you can also jsut curl https://discord.com/api/v10/invites/python | jq to get features as well

[patent pivot]

lol funny

[fallen patrol]

wtf why would i use a terminal

[patent pivot]

claude can do it for you

[fallen patrol]

er sometimes they do remove features

[fervent sage]

because terminals are love terminals are life

[patent pivot]

TRUE

many people are saying this

[fallen patrol]

yeah just checked and 3 day and 7 day thread features were removed

THREADS_ENABLED was not though

[patent pivot]

hmm i have 49 emails

this is majorly upsetting

[fallen patrol]

the only feature my bot doesn't have access to is RELAY_ENABLED

(compared to the ones that pydis has)

so yeah, very legacy feature

how come i never once put the timestamp on these

[marble shoal]

huh

how did i end up getting pinged in that😂

[fallen patrol]

fffs I blame discord

it is the coolest new feature: random pings

(and its not even april!)

[toxic wren]

I've pinged 10 random people until now

I pinged a guy remember(other server) like 4 times

and I got my Hacktoberfest tshirt, yay!

[fallen patrol]

Pls update site kthxbai

I would wait but I'm pretty sure you forgot

[patent pivot]

jesus lol the bot had only been up 2 minutes

i had the tab open from earlier

[fallen patrol]

IT WAS ONLY TWO MINUTES?

I'm waiting for files to download... Every second feels like an eternity ><

It says 1 hour 16 minutes remaining

[timid sentinel]

The most important part of the update has been forgotten - updating the topic on the repo 😞

[patent pivot]

SEV 1!!!!!!

[fallen patrol]

Requesting review on sir-robin#165

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-robin] #165 aoc: update global leaderboard command and wording for changes in 2025

[fallen patrol]

I think this might be more efficient than linking all of them
https://github.com/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+author%3Aonerandomusername+archived%3Afalse+sort%3Acreated-desc+user%3Apython-discord

And yes, the six there are fully ready for review and integration

@thorny obsidian hello! Pinging as well as per silenced GitHub.
I've implemented most of the AOC issues with the exception of the automatic forum channel, which I'm holding for now due to the likelihood of merge conflicts.

I have:

• 25 to 12
• global leaderboard update
• always show leaderboard
• put name in the right place if in the top names on leaderboard

[fallen patrol]

Did that

How is it no string

[thorny obsidian]

Cool, I'll review over the next few days

[patent pivot]

copilot has been delegated the task of making pytest 9.0 work

little does it know that after this i'm going to tell it to replace pytest-subtest with native subtests

[patent pivot]

huh

it actually did an alright job

[toxic wren]

why not use something local, might I suggest claude or cursor instead?

[patent pivot]

because i don't really want to pay for something or actually set this up

this was a good use case because updating all those patterns is tedious and annoying

copilot works, does it well, understood and ran our test suite and generated a pretty solid PR at the end of it

i don't want to go big on AI personally, I don't have copilot or AI completions in emacs or anything, but for things like this, it's nice

[toxic wren]

Cursor has a free teir, but I guess you pay for GitHub pro so might as well use it

Ill get github pro in the edu pack

if... my school stops blocking emails from github

[toxic wren]

huh? #reddit message

no changes to bot

unless a devops member restarted it again

[patent pivot]

yeah

here

[toxic wren]

why does it work now though?

reddit took their api back up?

[patent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-dexter-morgan-idk-gif-2440520923239485215

i am curious but if it works it works

the commands are still broken

[toxic wren]

which ones?

[patent pivot]

.reddit

[dusky shore]

Command Help

**```
.reddit

*View the top posts from various subreddits.*

**Subcommands:**
**`reddit daily [subreddit=r/Python]`**
*Send the top posts of today from a given subreddit.*
**`reddit subreddits`**
*Send a paginated embed of all the subreddits we're relaying.*
**`reddit top [subreddit=r/Python]`**
*Send the top posts of all time from a given subreddit.*
**`reddit weekly [subreddit=r/Python]`**
*Send the top posts of this week from a given subreddit.*

[patent pivot]

those

they work for r/Python

might be because the api key we use is a moderator on r/Python or something like that — no idea

[toxic wren]

they dont't work even for r/python

[patent pivot]

.reddit daily

[dusky shore]

Here are today's top r/Python posts!

I just published my first ever Python library...

After days of experimenting, and debugging, I’ve officially released numeth - a library focused on core Numerical Methods used in engineering and applied mathematics. \ - What My Project Does Numeth helps you quickly solve tough mathematical...

 105  26 Prestigious_Bear5424

Page 2/6

[patent pivot]

admittedly they don't work with .reddit daily Python — but I think that's because we depend on the subreddits search api, and that is gone

[toxic wren]

what I was trying #sir-lancebot-playground message

[patent pivot]

sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot 2025-11-11 16:11:28 | ERROR | bot.exts.core.error_handler | Unhandled command error: 403, message='Attempt to decode JSON with unexpected mimetype: text/html', url='https://www.reddit.com/subreddits/search.json?q=r/python'
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot Traceback (most recent call last):
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot   File "/build/.venv/lib/python3.13/site-packages/discord/ext/commands/converter.py", line 1326, in _actual_conversion
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot     return await converter().convert(ctx, argument)
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot   File "/bot/bot/utils/converters.py", line 108, in convert
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot     json = await resp.json()
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot   File "/build/.venv/lib/python3.13/site-packages/aiohttp/client_reqrep.py", line 756, in json
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot     raise ContentTypeError(
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot     ...<7 lines>...
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot     )
sir-lancebot-6c8fb677c5-mwknh sir-lancebot aiohttp.client_exceptions.ContentTypeError: 403, message='Attempt to decode JSON with unexpected mimetype: text/html', url='https://www.reddit.com/subreddits/search.json?q=r/python'

[toxic wren]

!remind 1h #dev-contrib message

[stable mountain]

Yep.

Your reminder will arrive on <t:1762881240:F>!

ID: 8106

[stable mountain]

It has arrived!

Here's your reminder: #dev-contrib message
[Jump back to when you created the reminder](#dev-contrib message)

[toxic wren]

!remind 1h #dev-contrib message

[stable mountain]

You're the boss!

Your reminder will arrive on <t:1762885184:F>!

ID: 8107

[timid sentinel]

There is an issue for that which has a proposed solution https://github.com/python-discord/sir-lancebot/issues/1499

[toxic wren]

https://www.reddit.com/subreddits/search.json?q=r/python

Gives the data no? Atleast when I go to it in my browser

[timid sentinel]

hm yeah idk then

[patent pivot]

huh

[stable mountain]

It has arrived!

Here's your reminder: #dev-contrib message
[Jump back to when you created the reminder](#dev-contrib message)

[toxic wren]

ip blocking the bot?

or linode

[patent pivot]

maybe

[lucid orbit]

48 PRs is what it took to get the role

good job though

[fallen patrol]

Thanks!!

@patent pivot on which repo should I open an issue about dependabot for all projects (a single tracking issue)

Infra or meta

[patent pivot]

regarding what

depends on what the issue is actually about

well open on either i guess, i can move it if it's more appropriate on a repo

@fallen patrol that's not the same issue

[fallen patrol]

fragment didn't paste https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core/issues/11913#issuecomment-3129670582

[patent pivot]

right — but the workarounds mentioned are not for that comment

the workarounds seem to be the fact that dependabot won't even recognise a security problem for a dependency that is transitively included only in uv.lock

well hmm

i guess dependabot may then pick it up as regular dependency bumps

but we disable minor and patch version upgrades from dependabot

[timid sentinel]

Either way I think we're probably fine just leaving it for now and hoping dependabot is fixed at some point

[fallen patrol]

sounds good

wow sir-robin doesn't send check embeds to #dev-log 😭

nope i just broke it

hmmm https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/actions/runs/19278959420/workflow#L10-L12

that shouldn't be true

oh fiddlesticks

[stable mountain]

.github/workflows/status_embed.yaml lines 10 to 12

concurrency:
  group: ${{ github.workflow }}-${{ github.ref }}
  cancel-in-progress: true```

[fallen patrol]

#requesting review on bot#3413

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[bot] #3413 fix: check for unknown/None content_type within attachment handling

[patent pivot]

out of date from master

otherwise looks good

[fallen patrol]

pressed the update button

checks pass :D

[patent pivot]

merge commit

[fallen patrol]

i can rebase smh i thought you were against that

[patent pivot]

no lol

i rebase all the time

i rebased your PR the other day

[fallen patrol]

it depends on the reviewer in some cases

[patent pivot]

i am generally against merge commits in all cases

[fallen patrol]

except for using merge commits to merge into the main bot

[patent pivot]

i often don't

3.14 was merged without a merge commit

[fallen patrol]

fair

[patent pivot]

devops repos don't have any merge commits at all

it's enforced repo level

[fallen patrol]

lmao I have too many issues in pydis https://github.com/issues?q=state%3Aopen archived%3Afalse sort%3Aupdated-desc owner%3Apython-discord author%3Aonerandomusername OR assignee%3Aonerandomusername state%3Aopen archived%3Afalse sort%3Aupdated-desc owner%3Apython-discord

[patent pivot]

i have a bunch but on admin-tasks it seems

oh i opened those

yea

[fallen patrol]

i only have a few assigned to me

i should probably finish sir-lancebot#968

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-lancebot] #968 github command enhancements

[fallen patrol]

i put two of those other fixes in sir-lancebot#1699

[dusky shore]

GitHub

[sir-lancebot] #1699 fix: use one request for GitHub pulls and discussions

[fallen patrol]

oh my god. They just fixed cloudflare workers for making requests to Discord. https://github.com/discord/discord-api-docs/issues/7146

Joe you can use a filter worker on #dev-log again!!

[wise marten]

I think point 2 in #voice-verification should be reworded to

-Been consistently active for 1 hour 30 minutes.
+Been consistently active for 1 hour 30 minutes in text chat.

Unless I am misunderstanding the requirements.
idk how to contribute tho

[celest charm]

Why is this raising from None?
https://github.com/onerandomusername/pydis-eventbot/blob/6e899bb7b026eb1814dac4e87d25c93b02245dd4/bot/exts/advent_of_code/_helpers.py#L250-L252

[stable mountain]

bot/exts/advent_of_code/_helpers.py lines 250 to 252

except aiohttp.ClientError:
    # Don't retry, something unexpected is wrong and it may not be the session.
    raise FetchingLeaderboardFailedError from None```

[patent pivot]

yea that should not be from none

[patent pivot]

to discord right?

[fallen patrol]

yeah

[celest charm]

...also why should we not retry on a ClientError? isn't that mostly what retrying is for? To still make a request if the network is flaky?

[fallen patrol]

I can't type

I plan a larger change to the aoc handling code :^) but I didn't want to refactor what was already there with so little time before december

[patent pivot]

fixed thanks

[patent pivot]

works better on site

we do have some new internal workers though

[fallen patrol]

fair

[patent pivot]

not sure they'll benefit from this

fredrick is a worker

[fallen patrol]

but still, you can make requests to github again

[patent pivot]

to discord

i need to fix fredrick actually

postfix is fucked

he's back

[celest charm]

Btw @fallen patrol there are a bunch of places where it's assumed that AoC lasts for 25 days, did you look at that?
https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/blob/89f20b8f72c59a465335b2e23b25755721f60286/bot/exts/advent_of_code/views/dayandstarview.py#L55

[stable mountain]

bot/exts/advent_of_code/views/dayandstarview.py line 55

options=[discord.SelectOption(label=str(i)) for i in range(1, 26)],```

[fallen patrol]

ye: https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/pull/164

they were seperate so they could be reviewed seperately 😄

by design in order to not have a monolith

about to comment on gh for others but https://github.com/python-discord/sir-robin/pull/161 changes that insert(1, ...) statement a bit

(this also fixes the leaderboard showing only 9 of the top ten if the user isn't in it)

(old example)

[celest charm]

Unrelated thing: the feature I probably hate the most in Python is implicit boolean coercion. The ability to put something other than True, False (and maybe None) in an if.
For example, in this function: https://github.com/onerandomusername/pydis-eventbot/blob/6e899bb7b026eb1814dac4e87d25c93b02245dd4/bot/exts/advent_of_code/_cog.py#L373
there are three states:

(aoc_name=None, is_explict_name=False)
(aoc_name="",   is_explict_name=False)
(aoc_name="...",is_explict_name=True)
``` and I _think_ it works out fine, but you have to drill down into `_helpers.fetch_leaderboard` to see if it handles an empty name and a `None` name the same

[stable mountain]

bot/exts/advent_of_code/_cog.py line 373

async def aoc_leaderboard(self, ctx: commands.Context, *, aoc_name: str | None = None) -> None:```

[fallen patrol]

true

i think docs might sometimes suffer from this

[celest charm]

an easy fix would be disallowing an empty string as the name, it's probably a mistake when calling the command

but idk if it's worth it

[fallen patrol]

i don't even know if dpy allows that but im not sure

oh, yeah. its not possible to the best of my knowledge

[celest charm]

"" is not allowed as an argument?

[fallen patrol]

the keyword arg means dpy is greedy and therefore ignores "" iirc

otherwise that would have pulled not in

!d not in

[stable mountain]

not in

6.10.2. Membership test operations

The operators in and not in test for membership. x in s evaluates to True if x is a member of s, and False otherwise. x not in s returns the negation of x in s. All built-in sequences and set types support this as well as dictionary, for which in tests whether the dictionary has a given key. For container types such as list, tuple, set, frozenset, dict, or collections.deque, the expression x in y is equivalent to any(x is e or x == e for e in y).

For the string and bytes types, x in y is True if and only if x is a substring of y. An equivalent test is y.find(x) != -1. Empty strings are always considered to be a substring of any other string, so "" in "abc" will return True.

[fallen patrol]

thanks for deleting my improper invoke. Very helpful to delete my example

lmfao #dev-log message maybe I'm wrong or pydis checks the ""

.src docs

[dusky shore]

You have to stop.

Your input was invalid: Unable to convert docs to valid command or Cog.

Usage:```
.source [source_item]

[fallen patrol]

!src doc

[stable mountain]

Command: docs

Look up documentation for Python symbols.

Source Code

Go to GitHub

bot/exts/info/doc/_cog.py:288

[fallen patrol]

https://github.com/python-discord/bot/blob/77b5290646049520ff389c81a5446dc619c10bb0/bot/exts/info/doc/_cog.py#L306-L318

[stable mountain]

bot/exts/info/doc/_cog.py lines 306 to 318

if not symbol_name:
    inventory_embed = discord.Embed(
        title=f"All inventories (`​{len(self.base_urls)}`​ total)",
        colour=discord.Colour.blue()
    )

    lines = sorted(f"- [`​{name}`​]({url})" for name, url in self.base_urls.items())
    if self.base_urls:
        await LinePaginator.paginate(lines, ctx, inventory_embed, max_size=400, empty=False)

    else:
        inventory_embed.description = "Hmmm, seems like there's nothing here yet."
        await ctx.send(embed=inventory_embed)```

[fallen patrol]

that's not being run because of the falsey truthy statement yeah

symbol_name is "" including the quotes

because dpy just gives u the whole thing when its greedy

[celest charm]

just in case it's year 2024 again

[fallen patrol]

revival of code support, mainly

Constanting so if the number of days is changed its an easy fix

magic values are bad

but i want to mix some of the support for roc and aoc

[celest charm]

oh right i forgor

[fallen patrol]

• there is a small part of me that holds out hope for a 25 day year again

it may not be next year but when it happens I'll be ready

[celest charm]

Funny thing: apparently, every year Valve changes this line in Team Fortress 2 code https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/commit/b2705ba55b3b802b86ef2b2dbf97939c9d4fb685#diff-b0c1ffbebad7fe0367d1a110f9707d0bdce97c539b24c9ad73891a3d07ea006aR334
doesn't seem to load properly but it's ```diff

• // only setup for 2024 right now...need to figure out how we want future events to run and maybe remove the year
• static CDateBasedHoliday g_Holiday_Summer( "summer", "2024-07-01", "2024-09-16" );

• // only setup for 2025 right now...need to figure out how we want future events to run and maybe remove the year
• static CDateBasedHoliday g_Holiday_Summer( "summer", "2025-07-16", "2025-09-16" );

[fallen patrol]

lmfao

just like meme fr fr

[toxic wren]

correct me if I am wrong, but joe once told me we needed contributions over a long period of time, not necessarily 40 PR's.

[patent pivot]

there is no set threshold or time period etc.

anyone can be nominated at any time and then core devs have a bit of a vote, it's nothing formal like the helper voting process is

[toxic wren]

#dev-contrib message

[patent pivot]

yea

that's the same thing

there is no set threshold or time period, but obviously a longer one is more likely to inspire a core dev to nominate someone

[toxic wren]

ah

btw how many people have the role

[patent pivot]

!role Contributors

[stable mountain]

Contributors info

ID

295488872404484098

Colour (RGB)

#55cc6c

Colour (HSV)

0.37 0.58 204

Member count

48

Position

49

Permission code

6442450944

[toxic wren]

48 pretty big...

[patent pivot]

it used to be more than cosmetic

contributor reviews used to count towards the approval policy

[toxic wren]

How do do manage that? Like do you add it to a list everytime someone gets the role?

[toxic wren]

Why was it removed?

[patent pivot]

yea

[patent pivot]

effort to maintain compared to how many contribs were actually leaving reviews

https://github.com/python-discord/.github/commit/05a689b4f73d37188aebb9c70bddb2614036835c

[toxic wren]

I mean you have 48 contributors, which is 48 times. I don't understand how that is hard to maintain? Is there something internally that im missing here?

[patent pivot]

contribs would leave the community etc and we had no way of really tracking that reliably, we didn't really want stagnant contributors on the list either because the review policy does mean something

yes, it's minimal effort to maintain, but when it's not actually being used then why even put in the minimal effort?

minimal effort is greater than zero effort

if it was minimal effort with some reward then fine, but it was effort with no reward because contributors did not review PRs frequently

[fallen patrol]

i would actually leave reviews if that matters

(i have been)

well at least on prs that have been opened/active recently

[toxic wren]

I would, but my reviews would mean nothing anyways and wont count towards the process.

[patent pivot]

which is always appreciated — and obviously people will read and respond to reviews from anyone — it's just not something that counts to the policy

we also didn't want contributors to feel like there was an expectation of reviews etc for what is fundamentally a reward/cosmetic role

[fallen patrol]

guess I should work down https://github.com/pulls?q=owner%3Apython-discord+is%3Aopen

[toxic wren]

Im looking at https://github.com/python-discord/.github/issues/18

Looking to see if it's possible

[patent pivot]

it is

you can pull that data from a few places

[fallen patrol]

widget is disabled for here

[patent pivot]

invite isn't

i do it for https://jb3.dev/

just pull it in an action once a week or something

round down to nearest 10,000

cron actions exist to be abused

[fallen patrol]

shields.io uses widgets ye

[fallen patrol]

max interval is every 4 minutes. Why don't we do that. /j

[patent pivot]

[fervent sage]

max interval? or min lol

[fallen patrol]

min*

[toxic wren]

looking at https://dev.to/rohan_sharma/heres-how-i-created-a-real-time-discord-badge-for-github-readme-4adg
Seems simple and we could integrate with python-discord/bot

[patent pivot]

whar

why do we need to integrate with bot

[fallen patrol]

arguably it'd be a cool thing if we did make the badge on some API, either a worker 🤓 or in site

https://pydis.com/badges/discord

[stable mountain]

It has arrived!

Here's your reminder: ???
[Jump back to when you created the reminder](#dev-contrib message)

[toxic wren]

apparently one of the steps is a bot in the server, haven't gotten too far yet to be sure.

[patent pivot]

you can do it in one line of bash

$ curl -s https://discord.com/api/v10/invites/python\?with_counts\=true | jq ".approximate_member_count / 10000 | floor | . * 10000"
410000

[fervent sage]

honestly I'm sceptical of whether this is at all worthwhile, you put a bunch of work into creating your own shield endpoint or you have a ton of automated commits, when the member count of pydis rises comparatively slowly; wouldn't just updating it manually every 6 months be equally effective without falling into the xkcd1205 trap

xkcd: Is It Worth the Time?

Don't forget the time you spend finding the chart to look up what you save. And the time spent reading this reminder about the time spent. And the time trying to figure out if either of those actually make sense. Remember, every second counts toward your life total, including these right now.

[fallen patrol]

yeah

it used to rise a lot faster

but now its very much not lmao

its 412519 right now

[fervent sage]

"400k+ members" would honestly probably last a year

[patent pivot]

longer than that lol

[toxic wren]

Yeah for like 2-3 years tops

[fervent sage]

I was being nice :P but yeah like, this doesn't feel like an automation problem

rather it's just an update to the readme

[patent pivot]

it's not but it'd be fun

joe@lovelace:~$ curl -s https://discord.com/api/v10/invites/python\?with_counts\=true | jq ".approximate_member_count / 1000 | floor | . * 1000" | numfmt --grouping
412,000

[fallen patrol]

in which case the most fun would be constructing our own custom badge on site

[patent pivot]

be the change you want to see

custom badges could actually be fun because we could put them on repos

and can go beyond member count

[fallen patrol]

*be the change request you wish to see

[fervent sage]

shields.pythondiscord.com time

[fallen patrol]

use the dead api repo

that was to decouple the api from site

[patent pivot]

nooo that project dead

[fallen patrol]

then kill shields.pydis.com right before its ready

[patent pivot]

this is either a new service or in site

stuff like https://img.shields.io/python/required-version-toml?tomlFilePath=https%3A%2F%2Fraw.githubusercontent.com%2Fpython-discord%2Fbot%2Frefs%2Fheads%2Fmain%2Fpyproject.toml would be cool to somewhat standardise and put in repos

[toxic wren]

This https://discord.com/api/v10/guilds/267624335836053506 with bots auth token would return it I think.

[patent pivot]

what

return what

[toxic wren]

member data,

[patent pivot]

just pull it from the invite

you don't even need authentication

[fallen patrol]

you mean this?

[patent pivot]

i mean the code snippet i just posted

that has

the member data

from curl

with no authentication

[toxic wren]

yea

easier

Im on it

[patent pivot]

// joe@lovelace:~$ curl -s https://discord.com/api/v10/invites/python\?with_counts\=true | jq "del(.guild.features)"
{
  "type": 0,
  "code": "python",
  "expires_at": null,
  "id": 0,
  "flags": 2,
  "guild": {
    "id": "267624335836053506",
    "name": "Python",
    "splash": "bc7e6bf1ca419b9830ba15ebbcb96a9d",
    "banner": "ed3be5b67371fe219d7006152087afdb",
    "description": "We're a large community focused around the Python programming language. We believe that anyone can learn to code.",
    "icon": "a_8a4f6b575c0af85165938367af61a903",
    "verification_level": 2,
    "vanity_url_code": "python",
    "nsfw_level": 0,
    "nsfw": false,
    "premium_subscription_count": 32,
    "premium_tier": 3
  },
  "guild_id": "267624335836053506",
  "channel": {
    "id": "267631170882240512",
    "type": 0,
    "name": "welcome"
  },
  "profile": {
    "id": "267624335836053506",
    "name": "Python",
    "icon_hash": "a_8a4f6b575c0af85165938367af61a903",
    "member_count": 412520,
    "online_count": 38835,
    "description": "We're a large community focused around the Python programming language. We believe that anyone can learn to code.",
    "banner_hash": null,
    "game_application_ids": [],
    "game_activity": {},
    "tag": "snek",
    "badge": 0,
    "badge_color_primary": "#008cff",
    "badge_color_secondary": "#fdf300",
    "badge_hash": "fd3549e1a1a692afda2a7b4cf6b6cad6",
    "traits": [],
    "features": [
      "DISCOVERABLE",
      "MEMBER_VERIFICATION_GATE_ENABLED",
      "COMMUNITY"
    ],
    "visibility": 1,
    "custom_banner_hash": "774c3129f8d45bb55fc3048aea844c8b",
    "premium_subscription_count": 32,
    "premium_tier": 3
  },
  "approximate_member_count": 412520,
  "approximate_presence_count": 38835
}

[toxic wren]

good lord thats a lot of json

[patent pivot]

well no hang on because it's being discussed here

the immediate fix is just putting 400k+ in the README and that settles that

if people want to have fun with shields then I'll facilitate it but it needs to actually be something somewhat useful

[toxic wren]

but thats not fun

[patent pivot]

yea which is why the shields discussion started

[toxic wren]

what is shields?

[patent pivot]

https://shields.io

[fallen patrol]

joe we should have a pydis stats api

basically the stat dashboards but publicly consumable

[patent pivot]

they are all just json endpoints

https://stats.pythondiscord.com/members/total?frame=day

[fallen patrol]

joe that was really fast thanks for adding it

this means shields can pull from that api

[patent pivot]

that repo needs TLC

[fallen patrol]

do you know where we can get some

[fervent sage]

more importantly, the shield can have a members over time graph, or members joined in the last 24 hours, or or or I LOVE DATA

[fervent sage]

man I remember when 3.8 was bleeding edge

[patent pivot]

yea lol

[fervent sage]

i dont like the inevitable passage of time

[patent pivot]

june 2020 that repo came about

i should rewrite that site with apexcharts or something

[fallen patrol]

you should also add it to #dev-log

[patent pivot]

there are a few public metabase dashboards iirc as well

[toxic wren]

oooh https://img.shields.io/badges/dynamic-json-badge

[fallen patrol]

also does this imply private-stats

[patent pivot]

yeah

grafana

lol

[toxic wren]

we can make a CI in github that goes to https://discord.com/api/v10/invites/python?with_counts=true and then puts it in a badges repo

[fallen patrol]

what is the reasoning behind this https://github.com/python-discord/public-stats/issues/46

what would you use instead

[patent pivot]

huh https://metabase.pydis.wtf/public/dashboard/ae65abff-ee86-4535-8ee5-ba78be545655

[patent pivot]

urllib

[fervent sage]

almost lol

[patent pivot]

🤣

i'll redo public-stats at some point

!remind 8h funemployment task for the day

[stable mountain]

You're the boss!

Your reminder will arrive on <t:1762936449:F>!

ID: 8110

[toxic wren]

3AM EST 💀

[fervent sage]

8:34am our time though

[toxic wren]

yeah you guys have London time, right?

[patent pivot]

yea

i love being br*tish

(derogatory)

[fervent sage]

I've actually ended up in your part of br*tain a lot recently

[patent pivot]

the north?

condolences

[fervent sage]

notts specifically, langar airfield is where I've done a bunch of skydiving

[patent pivot]

oh i know langar

british skydive team did a skydive onto our campus that started at langar

[fervent sage]

lmao nice

[patent pivot]

i am even further north than nottingham at the moment though

[fervent sage]

so when are you joining the skydiving soc

[patent pivot]

have been in york since i graduated

[fervent sage]

ah yeah you're finished

[patent pivot]

i move to london end of this month

[fervent sage]

ooh exciting, what for?

[patent pivot]

and end my arc of Funemployment

software engineering at a public service broadcasting corporation

who has been in the news quite a lot the last couple of days lol

[toxic wren]

so you live in new york?

[fervent sage]

you're gonna work making software to stitch together video clips

[toxic wren]

or is there another york

[fallen patrol]

bbc?

[fervent sage]

new york implies original york

[patent pivot]

why do you think york is "new" york

[fervent sage]

which is in northern england

[patent pivot]

i live in original york

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York

[toxic wren]

im just too american

🇺🇸

[fervent sage]

I bet you think boston MA is the original boston

[patent pivot]

🤣🤣

[toxic wren]

it isnt?

[fervent sage]

(the north of england has the original too)

[patent pivot]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston,_Lincolnshire

[fallen patrol]

@toxic wren take a trip to georgia

[patent pivot]

Emigrants from Boston named several other settlements around the world after the town—most notably Boston, Massachusetts, then a British colony and now part of the United States.

[toxic wren]

yeah the boston area is called new england

[fervent sage]

as a brit I love looking at US place names because they're all either borrowed or really funny

[patent pivot]

hilairious bit when establishing a new colony to go "ah i've travelled halfway across the globe, let's just call it the same as the old place"

[fervent sage]

I bet it was named by a guy called gary who went "It's raining here and it rained back in England so lets call it the same thing"

[patent pivot]

lmfao

but yea i start new role december 1st

lots of python

[fervent sage]

I did the obvious career move of quitting my software engineering job to become a climbing/mountaineering instructor, possibly adding skydiving to that list when I can

[patent pivot]

an inevitability

[fervent sage]

you either become an alpaca farmer or an adrenaline junkie, there's no other pathway

[patent pivot]

lmfao

[fervent sage]

goose farmer* sorry

I'm too mike-pilled

[toxic wren]

lmfao

22 years

[fallen patrol]

you'd love my city

[fervent sage]

while googling to find this I found this article and the headline is mad enough that you need to see it

[patent pivot]

oh i remember this

infra commit worked

what an odd bug

at gets very unhappy when you pass it fractional minutes

[fervent sage]

"Hmmm yes I would like to be notified about this in 3.879462954674 minutes please"

[patent pivot]

https://github.com/python-discord/infra/commit/43ef9e264c98c094ca7002cb59ae9c8cecbd1565

[fervent sage]

oh joe you love golang right, here's something you'll find entertaining https://github.com/vcokltfre/jwt-error-demo (spurred from thinking about floating point lol)

[patent pivot]

hahahahaha

yeah classic

for better or for worse working with discord snowflakes for so long has made me instantly recognise integer boundaries and the errors they cause

[fervent sage]

yeah I caught this unreasonably quickly all things considered because of exactly that

[patent pivot]

metricity still has to store IDs as strings in the database because metabase and grafana can't handle bigints well

grafana can cast but the metabase query engine could not handle that automatically when we started using metabase

[fervent sage]

I pretty much handle IDs for anything I make now (discord or otherwise, I like and use snowflakes elsewhere) as strings and only convert to ints if I need to process them because I don't want to deal with this sort of issue, and I'm never working at the scale where this actually has any measurable impact on resource usage

[patent pivot]

we store 3 IDs per message and have 37,106,324 messages stored, which when I estimated it meant 890,551,776 bytes if using BIGINTs or 2,449,017,384 bytes for strings

[fervent sage]

maturing is realising that your hobby project will never outgrow postgres' TEXT type for every single field

[patent pivot]

   table_name    | pg_size_pretty | pg_total_relation_size
-----------------+----------------+------------------------
 messages        | 6551 MB        |             6869499904
 users           | 550 MB         |              576389120
 threads         | 164 MB         |              172335104
 channels        | 120 kB         |                 122880
 categories      | 64 kB          |                  65536
 alembic_version | 24 kB          |                  24576
(6 rows)

[fervent sage]

would be nice if they supported uint64 without extensions, maybe then I'd use numeric IDs lol, but I fear the day I construct a snowflake and see it returned as -92384568327456

[fervent sage]

24kb of alembic versions seems oddly high, is that storing like migration hashes for each migration?

[patent pivot]

fortunately 9223372036854775808 is in 2084

[patent pivot]

it's just one row, but that's probably around the size of the overhead for one table

[fervent sage]

I know this logically but I still fear it irrationally

[patent pivot]

you've got to think liiiiike uhhh

postgres default page size is 8kb

index on that table is another 8kb

[fervent sage]

ah yeah, that makes sense

[patent pivot]

there will be other things but yea, the actual data size of that row will be considerably smaller (though still allocated as 8kb)

 row_size_bytes
----------------
             37
(1 row)

[fervent sage]

Aaanyways it's 1am so I'd better sleep because I plan on waking up then tossing a coin on whether I drive up to snowdon, climb it, then drive back down to swansea, just to get an extra logbook entry on a free day

[patent pivot]

yeah i'm also going to hit the hay

[fallen patrol]

!server

[stable mountain]

Server Information

Created: <t:1483877013:R>
Roles: 156
Member status: 37,904 374,615

Members: 412,519

Helpers: 161
Moderation Team: 35
Admins: 13
Directors: 3
Contributors: 48
Leads: 6

Channels: 336

Category: 38
Forum: 5
News: 14
Staff: 124
Stage_Voice: 1
Text: 141
Voice: 13

[fallen patrol]

damn

[toxic wren]

!ping

[stable mountain]

You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

[fallen patrol]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa why is python so inconsistent

it would simplify a lot of code to enable redirect to bot commands for all commands by default

[toxic wren]

!src server

[stable mountain]

Command: server

Returns an embed full of server information.

Source Code

Go to GitHub

bot/exts/info/information.py:190

[fallen patrol]

including treating #sir-lancebot-playground for checks as if it were #bot-commands but only pointing to the one channel

right now commands for @stable mountain go to #bot-commands, @dusky shore goes to #sir-lancebot-playground, and @humble leaf is not apparent unless you read the source code

[cold island]

not sure what you mean. Some commands are redirected to bot commands because that's where they should be used, some commands are fine, some commands behave differently in specific channels

[fallen patrol]

hm ur right

would need a custom context, but would be doable

could definitely simplify it a lot though once that's in

would take time but should increase the ui of the bot which imo is very important

[cold island]

There's a decorator that makes the redirect check, seems pretty simple

[fallen patrol]

ah then it wouldn't even need a custom context

[cold island]

you mean show in the help embed where it can be used?

[fallen patrol]

redirect output by default instead of saying "its not usuable in this channel"

eg rather than effectively a manual redirect, make it an automatic redirect by default

[fallen patrol]

got sidetracked from my actual question:

can we add role counts for the Partners and Python community roles as well?

[cold island]

that's more of an admin decision I think. There's an argument here that the goal is to make people run the command in the bot channel in the first place, rather than run it anywhere and get a message/channel link

[fallen patrol]

hm that's fair

its still... somewhat arbitrary what commands will be allowed where

[toxic wren]

Staff: 124
wth

what are you guys doing

[cold island]

partying

[cold island]

there might be an open issue for that

hmmm maybe not. I remember someone mentioning that another role would make the two columns have the same length lol

anyway, python community seems ok to me to add. partner is not necessary, they're all python community anyway

[fallen patrol]

Source command is global for all bots.
Ping works only in #bot-commands for @stable mountain unless you are a staff member, partner, or community member. Its global for @dusky shore and @humble leaf.
Help works in any channel for robin and lance, including DMs, but doesn't work in dms for @stable mountain AND has output redirected to #bot-commands unless once again, same above roles.

char-info on bot is restricted to not work in #python-discussion only, works in all other channels, does NOT redirect output.

etcetra etcetra...

[fallen patrol]

first click lmao

[cold island]

uuuh yeah there's no reason for the first one to not have the community role

[fallen patrol]

none of them do

[cold island]

hmmm... I know there was a discussion some time ago about changing that, maybe nothing came out of it

[fallen patrol]

also adafruit is not a python community either

[cold island]

I'll pass that on

[fallen patrol]

I suppose adafruit is legacy from when the #partners channel existed

ah yeah, 2019 role

lmao nice

[cold island]

yeeeah, it's not very consistent

[fallen patrol]

its fine

its like the discord api: eventually consistent but on a much larger timescale

[cold island]

hah yeah

[fallen patrol]

i found out today that nonces allow you to determine a client's latency

so that's a fun event

[toxic wren]

what the vencord is this

[patent pivot]

there is still an internal one

partners is mostly cosmetic now + access to internal channels

same as python community

there is an internal partners chat + they can see incidents

[fallen patrol]

yeah figured

[patent pivot]

there is purposefully no concrete rule on what commands should and shouldn't be made available generally

[fallen patrol]

None of it.

[toxic wren]

huh

your client looks modded

[patent pivot]

useful in help channels but restricted? sure, PR welcome with justification

available everywhere and abused? restrict or add redirect

at the end of the day trying to build this big system of rules on what can happen where and who can use what commands and how things should be formatted is a surefire way to make things really doubleplusungood

command scoping is done best effort, corrected in PRs where appropriate/seen and if things need to be changed they need to be changed

i don't think it's the end of the world that things like !ping work on some bots everywhere but others only in #bot-commands, things don't need to be exactly the same across all projects, we are not in 1989 Germany

[cold island]

lmao

[celest charm]

correct, it's 5 years before that

[patent pivot]

M-x troll

[radiant merlin]

Is there anyway this github repo could be synchronized with the main plan9-labs repo?

[celest charm]

it's 2am UTC, you gotta go to bed

[fallen patrol]

i hate discord

[wise marten]

all the empty stuff is necessary?

[fallen patrol]

its provided exactlyt like that by discord

[celest charm]

What's wrong?

[fallen patrol]

well

this

[wise marten]

forwarded empty message?

[fallen patrol]

ye

[stable mountain]

@fallen patrol

It has arrived!

Here's your reminder: funemployment task for the day
[Jump back to when you created the reminder](#dev-contrib message)

[fallen patrol]

bot#3440

hmmm

well that's moot soon anyhow

[patent pivot]

bot#3440

whar

what is that

oh

the deleted issue?

[fallen patrol]

yeah

pretty sure that currently lance made two request to check that

[toxic wren]

#dev-log message ?

[toxic wren]

oh #changelog message

[patent pivot]

we've fucked it all

[toxic wren]

Why, I've seen a few:

ClientConnectorError: Cannot connect to host site.web.svc.cluster.local:80 ssl:default [Connect call failed ('10.128.115.236', 80)]

Nothing drastic and everything seems fine now.

[celest charm]

we heard of blue/green deployment and invented our own, brown deployment

[vale ibex]

thanks for the investigation

[patent pivot]

we don't have a site anymore .........

it's over

[vale ibex]

my favourite

[toxic wren]

lol

[toxic wren]

wdym the site loads for me

[vale ibex]

cached

[toxic wren]

Cmd+Shift+R does nothing though?

[patent pivot]

yeah ....

it's gone ....

[celest charm]

Mostly unrelated but a question:
https://github.com/python-discord/bot-core/blob/74072b3709d87dc811a4972aec1ef172101e49bf/pydis_core/_bot.py#L29-L34

1. why super().__init__() and not super().__init__(base)?
2. why that when __cause__ (aka raise Apple() from banana exists)

[stable mountain]

pydis_core/_bot.py lines 29 to 34

class StartupError(Exception):
    """Exception class for startup errors."""

    def __init__(self, base: Exception):
        super().__init__()
        self.exception = base```

[patent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/text-gif-18553007

[toxic wren]

well, just revert ig?

[vale ibex]

yeah that strtup error stuff is odd

[vale ibex]

no backups

[patent pivot]

no backups .....

[celest charm]

idk, maybe there's some good reason, that's why I'm asking