career-advice

[summer roost]

either way, they're orthogonal

[novel cape]

not always, we do a lot of active directory stuff and use python to automate stuff
red team is ALL about breaking

[summer roost]

SQL is a language that is used for talking for databases, JS runs in the browser.

[carmine moss]

I want a good pay the difficulty level doesn't matter. What would be good?

[novel cape]

they both pay good, what interests you more

[carmine moss]

I am just a beginner in this programing world

So iam starting with python

And iam thinking of learning Java after learning python

[novel cape]

thanks. I'll build resume and begin learning sql

[carmine moss]

Iam interested in ethical hacking

[summer roost]

have you tried looking for job posts in your area and seeing which of those skills is more in demand, and what the salary ranges look like?

[carmine moss]

The rate here is not determined by the post but is determined by the amount of skills we have.

[summer roost]

then it sounds like they pay equally well.

[carmine moss]

I'm just begineer in python so how can I get a good progress. Is here any begineer programming chat group?

[vapid jay]

Are you in school right now?

[vast acorn]

does everyone here learn python as it's first programming language? The thing is I'm still in senior high and the strand that i got in is STEM not ICT should i learn html first? like it required on curriculum?

[vapid jay]

What are STEM and ICT? You do realize not everyone follow the same system as your country's, right?

[vast acorn]

owh yeah my bad

[vast acorn]

it's a course for senior high STEM stands for science, technology, engineering and mathematics. ICT stands for Information and Communications Technology. Basically I studied on STEM course which they don't teach any basic fundementals in the field of computer/programming, but ICT does, So my concern was should i learn the first suggested course on ICT which is html etc. or not and jump directly on python?

[vapid jay]

Imo, first priority is do well in class. If you have extra time feel free to learn more outside like class. Like python or something else.

From my experience even doing well in high school would take most of your time.

Why do you want to learn python? You can always take programming courses in university. Most likely required actually.

[vast acorn]

well i kinda feel like lost, btw what's your first prog. language?

[buoyant seal]

as it was mentioned

high level being greater levels of abstraction and closer to the end user, low level being fewer levels of abstraction and closer to the hardware

which basically leads in general to Python/Javascript/PHP/Ruby being all highest level languages, as we can code something in those languages with 2-3 times less code amount than low level languages.

lowest level language = Assembler.
Right after that goes C, which sits right between being lowest and yet high enough to be at least in lowest level of high level languages.
C++, rust still there (not sure about the level of rust exactly) (Anyway C++ i think is right above C)
at the middle section of language levels go C# and java.
Golang is something in between as well. Lowest among highest level languages, and higher than any middle language

The nice thing to use highest level languages, that you will iterate over code structure / architecture / quality at a much greater temp as well. or at least i think so. So there is sort of learning advantage when using them.
People usually recommend starting from learning C/C++ due to it giving better... core concepts of algorithms/data structures under the hood. But I think they aren't that important as getting quicker into code architecture
Though people usually get themselves introduced to both things. University teaches in C/C++, and then getting commercial experience with high level language first ensures more rapid education

We can receive a greater quality of application if we go to lower languages.

For that reason Java is that popular for example

but you know.. while u can get best performance with writing stuff in just C... you can also shoot your legs off with 10 times greater likehood, and cost for development would increase at least 3 times as well. Plus different ecosystem of libraries also makes development speed... years time different for things.

So. the duty of architect person to choose the right tool for the right task.

[wet latch]

imo It's depends. If you want to be a web dev and you aim to be fullstack then yes have some basic with html will be a good idea. But you can also straight away go to python first.

[tired stone]

want to learn python

[carmine moss]

I just completed my high school

[wet latch]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[gusty niche]

hi, am a 12th pass student, i will choose cumputer science and engineer as my course with specilization
i have 2 choice specilization 1) with AI and ML OR 2) in Data Science

which should i choose

i have to keep in mind, the salary i get ofc + job security

i like these things ALOT

[compact oracle]

if i have a certificate in phyton online course whod i be directed to work?

[near ocean]

Could you rephrase that question? I'm not sure I understand. Python certificates are pretty much meaningless

[fair flower]

Hii Guys

Anyone working with Python and Aws?

[near ocean]

If you need help with something you should look at #❓｜how-to-get-help , this is a discussion channel about careers and Python

[steep copper]

Anyone here doing BCA? Could you give me an advice whether to take this degree or not?

[near ocean]

What's BCA?

[vapid jay]

Salary is difficult. But you can estimate job market, just by checking how many job postings there are. Like typing "Data Science" or other keywords on indeed. And comparing it to the number of graduates from your university and other universities in the country.

[primal imp]

Guys i'm physics student and i interested at scientific software. Therefore i developed an advanced mathematical solver(console) that published on Google Play Store. (name is "Mathpath console") But you know if you a student, you don't have money, support e.g. now i m seeking company or startup for internship. do you have any web-site about it. Except LinkedIn

[vapid jay]

So you want to get an internship in companies that write scientific software like mathworks?

I guess you have tried to put in "scientific computing internship" on google, indeed, etc. And didn't get many results?

[primal imp]

actually point shot, yeah

[vapid jay]

I think it's more like because there's just not many positions for that.

[primal imp]

Yes, my problem is "network" when i type software things it s all about game, mobile...

[vapid jay]

I personally think it's not a network thing, more like there is no jobs for that kind of thing.

Of course if have hardcore background, Intel and Nvidia seems to employ people to write libraries and such for HPC stuffs.

Because they show up on talks from time to time. Like on cppcon and elsewhere.

But such position may not be available at your country. And they may not be looking for an intern constantly.

[primal imp]

damn 😦 i don't know, is it possible to share some screenshots about my app? But my app have dynamics refreshing and advanced mathematical topics solving without internet connection.

[vapid jay]

I'm sure it's a neat app.

I'm just talking to myself about the job market for scientific computing.

[primal imp]

🙂

[steep copper]

Bachelors in computer applications

[hearty island]

does a portfolio website need a pic of yourself?

[peak halo]

No. You can saved that for linkedin.

[hearty island]

thanks stel

[true harness]

a personal website? why not put a picture?

[peak halo]

for the record, I'm not saying that it shouldn't include a picture. only that ones LinkedIn should have one for sure. In my opinion.

[true harness]

you will probably not only use html. you'll use css, js on top of html for frontend

yes

[fleet reef]

I put one on GitHub too, though not for any particular reason, I just wanted to have a picture, and decided that I might as well use one of myself

[near ocean]

Having a picture on your personal site makes you more "personable", relatable, not just some faceless blog/portfolio site

[craggy locust]

has anyone taken the pcep-30-02 exam? cant figure out where to take the practice test for this.

just keeps saying invalid code, when I bought it from their website

[smoky quest]

it's called "frontend development" and you will hear a lot about "frontend engineers" for people doing that type of jobs

[orchid brook]

not really long term career question

but do u guys have any advice for making money during college semester

Rn the only option is undergrad research where i gain relevant skills, get a resume/potential grad school booster and minimum wage ish money

is there a thing like part time online internship/dev work

[terse mirage]

Wouldn't undergrad research be the best choice as you get knowledge, grad school booster and still some money

It might be hard to get a good paying internship/dev work for only summer

But don't go with just what I say

[shadow tiger]

Does anyone know if there are any volunteering to work at tech companies for the summer?

[dusty oriole]

ez

[near remnant]

Waiting for the offer email is the worst

[tranquil kraken]

I am web developer having 7 year experience in php now i want to move to python / java . Which one i choose?

[zenith thistle]

Pie Thong of course

[near remnant]

PHP in 2022😂

[ivory sluice]

you're gonna get a lot of biased answers here

but java is not going anywhere whatsoever.

[true harness]

depends what you want to develop

[near remnant]

I think you should learn COBOL and go back in time

[tranquil kraken]

I know PHP is dying but laravel is good framework. And there is millions of website using php in 2022

[spark zinc]

Is this a good place to ask for resume review?

[tranquil kraken]

According to trend python is high but according to web trend JavaScript

[true harness]

yep, you can remove any PII

[spark zinc]

Pll?

[true harness]

personally identifying info: name, email, address, etc

[summer roost]

Pre-interview assessments are normal. Emailing them as a text file is a bit strange, but I don't think it's a red flag. Is there something about it that's worrying you?

You can call or email the company to double check that they sent the email, if you're worried it might be some sort of phishing scam or something

[coarse crag]

the google foobar challenge appeared on my browser. it was quite unexpected. unfortunately i am still a very very beginner and i probably can't even pass the first challenge. quite disappointed in myself tbh. i looked up on it and it is said that someone consecutively got the invitations over the years (this person didn't do the challenges because he/she was not ready). i guess i can try my luck again in a few years.

[orchid brook]

Right

[orchid brook]

First year summer i think total im getting around 9-10k with benefits combined for two months so I am hoping I can manage something next summer as well

but during the school year I wanted to gain some skills pay isn’t really that big of a factor as long as it’s min wage and flexible around exams

[terse mirage]

You could always look for an internship or something for real life experience and networking purposes or whatever it's called

[orchid brook]

i guess i could stay involved in hackathons and clubs more

that way it’s fun and useful

But would it be better than researching?

or i guess would it look better than researching? If I work on club projects and competitions instead of major related research?

[peak halo]

if you want to go to grad school, doing research as an undergrad is probably the best thing you can do for that. (as well as doing well in your courses in general.)

[orchid brook]

But

[peak halo]

there's a ten second slowmode, so say what you want to say in one message.

[peak halo]

you can do these things for fun and to learn things. unless you win at the hackathon or are in club leadership, it probably won't help as a resume item.

Also, I'm not sure where you're located, but my university had programs where you could take a year off from courses and work for a company full time. I only know two people that did it, but I'm sure it's good for experience and having some money to live a bit more comfortably for the remaining years of undergrad.

[orchid brook]

Hmmm

We have coops which is quite common

So like a semester or year off for work

but idk if it’d be wise to try for coop sophomore year tho because i gotta take classes

[vapid jay]

There's an internship I'm looking at but I'm not sure if they're legit, however the founder of the company seems super legit(PhD from top uni and multiple research papers in the field.) What's the best way to determine legitimacy of their internship? I can share the company in private if someone wants to have a look.

[vapid jay]

Why private lol? Just put them here.

I'm not even sure what your concern is. Fake company?

Fake company or con

[vapid jay]

I don't want competition in case it's legit

[delicate bane]

see if they are mentioned anywhere else. like anywhere at all.

[summer roost]

In my opinion, coops are incredibly valuable. I went to a school with coops, and I think my university education would have been mediocre without the coops, but was incredibly good because of the coops. I left college with skills and experience far better than most of my competition for entry level jobs.

[summer roost]

have they said or done something that makes you worry about the possibility it's a con? It seems like it would be wise to just assume it's not a con, unless something has raised red flags for you.

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by legitimacy of their internship? Like if the company is legit or if their internships are a great experience for the student?

[frosty trout]

good morning guys its 7:32 am here

[pulsar drum]

What's a good way to respond to a question for which I cannot think of an answer during an interview? Is there a better way to deal it than simply "I don't know"? I'm talking about questions like "tell me a time you did x...", not programming challenges.

[smoky quest]

that's the point of the question: to validate whether or not you have experience with it.
If you don't, do not make up stuff.

You could however try to clarify it or bring up related experiences that aren't strictly the same

[pulsar drum]

My concern was that even if I may have been in such situation before I may not recall or may not have even been aware of it happening.

I can prepare by thinking of some scenarios but it's just impossible to think of everything

[smoky quest]

The search space is actually pretty small. Most companies will care about similar things related to communication, teamwork, mentorship, etc.

[pulsar drum]

Yeah in a broad sense I could try to determine what their goal is and bring up something else that meets the same thing.

[smoky quest]

If you feel stressed out about this, look up "behavioral interview questions" and prepare something for the main topics

[pulsar drum]

I've done that. But I expect the questions will be more specific. I wasn't sure how to deal with that but I suppose I have an idea now

[smoky quest]

They will be looking for an example of skills or behavior.
So technically, you can't prepare for all of them. But you will see some patterns across interviews and the main topics

[pulsar drum]

Actually I realise it's a similar dilemma to the coding questions.

Anyway I'll just try to pivot to a related scenario if I can't answer directly.thanks

[smoky quest]

tbh, that's something I recommend to think about, like when you do performance reviews and have to think about what you did over the past year.

I use these types of questions a lot to test a behavior or an experience. Like if someone claims to have experience working at scale, I would ask them about an example of some bug or problem that has happened at scale and then dig from there.
On the behavior side, the tricky part is when they ask you "if it was to happen again, what would you do?". You should demonstrate you have learned from it and would handle it better

[pulsar drum]

I've been trying to think about the impact and the lessons I've learned.

I don't have much experience so it's going to be more difficult for me to think of related situations. I think also because even if I was in the situation being asked, it was likely relatively inconsequential for me; I haven't worked at a large scale, with many stakeholders or higher risk.

We tend to remember impactful events more than inconsequential ones. I had to really rack my brain to think of a time I disagreed with someone for example, and it was for an unimportant thing.

[smoky quest]

high scale does not necessarily mean many stakeholders or high risk. It typically means a high throughput. So you could also start by asking them to qualify what it means

[smoky quest]

People won't care if it was important or not, but they will care how you dealt with it. Did you consider their opinion? Why? why not? How did you go about it? Were they satisfied in the end?

[pulsar drum]

I didn't mean to imply that maybe my punctuation was off. I just used that as a scenario in which a decision might have more weight

And the point about importance is that it's difficult to recall situations that aren't important, and as someone inexperienced I haven't been in many important situations

[smoky quest]

you can also try to spin it in a positive light like "I have not had the opportunity to experience that situation but I would love to go through it and learn more about it"

but my overall point is that it's different from leetcode where you can think through. Either you have experienced it or not and there is no point in faking it. The best you can do is to prepare and recap your experience in advance so you don't forget about it on the spot

(and that's the point. One may cheat on a leetcode, but they can't fake experience)

(and some people are so obnoxious, they don't realize that their learning are actually pretty toxic)

[pulsar drum]

What do you mean by learning being toxic? Typo?

[smoky quest]

that wasn't a typo. Like learning from a situation you should lie to people

[tired stone]

bros how can I learn python

[smoky quest]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[pulsar drum]

I see. I of course don't want to fake it. I just feel like leaving it at "I don't know/remember" is a weak answer. While there is humility in that, I like your ideas of trying to spin it into a related scenario or willingness to learn

[near remnant]

A company declined my application for a job but asked me if they could use the ORM querying method that I've used for my project. Wtf?

Bruh 💀 💀 💀

Disgusting

[vast shoal]

Sounds pretty rude.

[vapid jay]

I mean for a fee, right?

[near remnant]

No

[vapid jay]

Lmao.

What kind of project is that?

Something you did when interning for them?

[near remnant]

No i did this project on my own lmao

To put it in my CV

Its a todo full stack app where u can filter the PostgreSQL data with ORM querying

[vast shoal]

Weird thing for them to ask for.

Doesn't sound all that unique.

[near remnant]

Yeah

[smoky quest]

yeah, sounds pretty sketchy. If anything, you saved yourself some troubles

[red pagoda]

@smoky quest are you familiar with btech in cs

[vapid jay]

You do realize he may come from a different country with pretty different system and curriculum, right?

[red pagoda]

and a professional

bsc in their country must be a 4 year course

and is not an engineering course

but a degree

[peak halo]

what is your underlying question? there's variation in academic titles--here in the US, "Bachelor of Science" and "Bachelor of Arts" are the only ones that I think are widely used. A "Bachelor of Technology in CS" is probably equivalent to a B.Sc. in CS.

[dense mesa]

It's usually a degree in India

[red pagoda]

you guys got physics and chemistry in there?

[peak halo]

my department at university had professors from India, so I imagine the curricula are essentially the same.

[peak halo]

physics and chemistry would probably be a B.Sc., but the distinction probably doesn't matter that much

[red pagoda]

u can study msc in us after bsc in india

[vapid jay]

Eh.

[red pagoda]

does that make any sense

[vapid jay]

Literally different question.

[red pagoda]

no?

[dense mesa]

@red pagoda what is the question here?

[vapid jay]

I think he just asked if he can enter a masters program in the US after completing a bachelor degree in India.

I just pointed out that the stackexchange question he linked is for an Indian student who already has a masters.

And wants to do another masters in the US. Totally different question.

[native narwhal]

Any experienced DevOps Engineer and/or any Data Engineer could speak a little about daily work computer, I am taking courses in both devops and data engineering and I have a MacBook Pro and a windows and now I am thinking about getting a dedicated Linux laptop
Any thoughts?

[gusty fern]

I am confused with the difference between computer science, data science and data engineering. Will I be able to get the same jobs and will they pay differently?

[dense mesa]

CS is a field of study, DS is a field of study but also commonly a job title, DE is technically a field of study but mostly a job title. If you have a CS degree you can reasonably go into DS or DE, but they won't pay the same. Salary depends on many factors anyways

[vast shoal]

This is the rough impression I have: Computer science is the study of how computers work on a theoretical level. It covers the theoretical foundations of programming among other things. Data science is more like a subfield of statistics that deals with analyzing and gleaning useful information from large datasets. Data engineering deals with the practical technical problems related to the latter.

[spiral swift]

Hello <name>, I hope this meets you well.
I just viewed your profile now and it's really cool.

Please excuse me reaching out to you I introduced, I didn't know any other way I could have done this.

I see that you're the CTO of C****** and I thought you might be able to help me answer a question I have, if you don't mind.

I applied to the opened junior developer position that matches my knowledge and experience at C--**** some months ago and received a rejection mail last month.

So I was wondering if you could please help me out of your busy schedule to understand what I might have done wrongly during my application process, as I think I meet the requirements as posted.

[spiral swift]

Hello everyone, please what do you think of this LinkedIn Inmail, should I send this ?

[quaint bolt]

I would say no just because a CTO is going to be very busy with other matters and it might reflect poorly reaching out in this way. Maybe reaching out to the hiring manager, thanking them for their initial time reviewing your application, and expressing your interest in improving without saying that you think you’ve met the requirements. That might just come off antagonistic if you say you think you’ve met the requirements but they didn’t hire you.

[true harness]

plus they don't really want to say why they rejected you because it might open them up to being sued. also, you say it was months ago? why would they remember

[summer roost]

You could send it. The best case scenario is that they tell you what skills they found lacking. The worst case scenario is that they think it's weird that you're asking the CTO questions about a résumé screening performed by someone else, since the CTO likely won't know the answer, and it could be seen as trying to go over the résumé screener's head and escalate to their boss.

That worst case scenario seems far more likely to me than the best case one.

To set expectations: there is no chance that you talk them into hiring you by reaching out to that CTO.

[quaint bolt]

I haven’t acquired a job myself in programming yet but as I’ve started to move into this industry what I’ve seen a lot of people say is that it’s a number game. You have to just apply to an insane amount of positions and work with the people who are working with you. Spending the extra energy trying to convert some people to say yes when there’s someone out there who might be willing to take a chance to develop you is just inefficient.

[vast stag]

Hi yall, anybody have advice for beginner finding internship ? What projects should i do before entering that stage , (getting certifications for what are you listed in resume? Do certifications from edx/Coursera get recognised? ) What do they expect from you?

[quaint bolt]

What I’ve tried to do and what I hope will work for me, is I’ve got an entry level call center job with a tech company and expressed from day one that I’m interested in transferring to their software dev team. In the mean time they laid out their expectations and goals for me to hit to show in good faith I can perform. In my personal time I develop projects for my portfolio geared around the technologies the company uses.

[spiral swift]

Thanks @true harness @summer roost @quaint bolt , I appreciate your inputs.

[dense mesa]

Wouldn't recommend sending this to the CTO, potential blowback and/or blacklisting isn't worth it. As others said, try the hiring manager, but don't expect a response imo

[spiral swift]

Thanks. I have now sent a cold email to the Hiring Manager. His email address is on his LinkedIn.

[covert plaza]

Hello, everyone.
2 weeks ago I started learning Python through a bootcamp on Udemy. I have worked with programming a few years ago when I did a TMS (transport management system) to a few cargo companies, but I used PHP back then (Legacy).

I am now, looking for jobs with Python, but most of them seem to ask for something else other than python, even at entry levels. Or a few libraries like OpenCV, NumPy or Pandas. Do you guys have any recommended courses that engrasps alot of these tools and libraries?

I have found the Data Science course of IBM. And it seems to cover a pretty good amount of things.

But if anyone knows better ones, please share with me.

[hearty island]

is it just me or does ziprecruiter seem very spammy?

[gusty fern]

Do data engineering pay better?

[dense mesa]

Depends on many factors as I said 😁

[dark moon]

So my dudes

Lady dudes, and dudes who identify otherwise

I'm having a devil of a time tracking down scholarships

Almost every scholarship (like, easily 90%) I find is either for women, first nations students, or biology students

Halp?

Or school specific grants

[bronze salmon]

Hello sir
I m newbie to this sector
So plz can you all help me ,
That from where should i start
I have taken CS ( IOT ) in my collage 1th year

Can any one helps me to get me ,wot should i do to make it better

[dark moon]

Well — and I know this might sound a little cruel bit it's absolutely essential

You must learn to spell. Communication skills are absolutely essential to both teamwork and your own ability to comprehend docs/specs/etc. Its the number one desirable soft skill and will be the deciding factor between you getting hired and someone else with equivalent hard skills

If you intend to continue in the IOT direction then I can't offer much advice — I don't know much about how all of that works. But as a general rule, I consider the construction of an interpreter to be the decathlon of programming. It will test your skills, and demand a high degree of knowledge, in almost all of that normal ways a programmer must be proficient

Plus it'll look great on a resume

[rocky gust]

first off dont tell anyone you are 12 on discord. second try to get comfortable with coding languages you are interested. if you want to do things on the web, js, css and html are great languages to start in

[dreamy spade]

On average, how many lines of code is a programmer writing on their shift?

[covert plaza]

Don't kill your curiosity and your hunger for knowledge as you grow.

[covert plaza]

This doesnt truly have an answer.

On my PHP era, I had days where my associate and I would go without writing one line. Thinking about how to solve x or y, searching for libs and stuff, and making fluxograms on how a module should be made.

On the other hand, there were days where we were just creating stuff that were very similar to something that we've made before, and we would write 3-4 system functions in one day.

And more than everything, how you are feeling does matter alot. There are days where everything just flows and you just wont stop coding.

[sudden yacht]

You don't use lines of code to quantify how much work a programmer is doing. Not all LoC are equal nor are outcomes.

The person who wrote 1000 lines of boilerplate in 8 hours is hard to compare to the person who wrote just 10, but also fixed a critical bug. It just took them 6 hours to find the bug, then 2 hours to understand and fix it.

so in short, it could be 1 or thousands 😄

[gritty rivet]

Just keep learning and working on whatever interests you, and in a few years you'll need to start planning for university. Don't worry about your career until then, you'll be fine 🙂

[drifting violet]

Hello

as a data analyst/scientist do you need to know r also or python is enough ?

also why is sql needed basically for those positions if someone can explain

[pastel quail]

sql is needed because your data will be in a database. SQL is needed to use databases

[drifting violet]

oh okay thanks

[covert plaza]

I have to say that I thought less companies would ask for bachelor's.

[delicate bane]

choose and learn 1 really well. R is used more in some industries. python is better to interface with, i.e. putting models in production

[delicate bane]

this can be very country-specific

[drifting violet]

i see

well thanks for the advice tho

[dark moon]

canada

[delicate bane]

hmm cant speak much about canada education system. have you tried reaching out to the financial aid/scholarships office

[dark moon]

That's my next stop

I'm also in talks with my local library about starting up a coding course. I'm told that "community engagement" will make me eligible for more scholarships

😐 And I'm going to write some essays

[dark moon]

Statistics

O'm not sure why, Python is also great language for data. R must have some other quality that makes it more ideal

[peak halo]

R was always intended to be language for scientific/mathematical computing, before enough people decided that Python would be that. So it's still widely used for that among non-CS people

[delicate bane]

it has very good advanced statistical packages (i.e. bayesian, simulations, etc.) as well as bioinformatics ones too; you'll see it used in that industry as well as pharmaceuticals and related industries. for example, i believe the CDC exclusively uses R

[dark moon]

So it isn't so much as the language is better than python for statistics

But rather that is has a history of being used for statistics, and a rich ecosystem of tools for it

[shut shard]

Is it possible to become a python backend developer without any knowledge of frontend development (HTML,CSS,JS) at all?, and will knowing it help with backend development in anyway?

[dark moon]

100%

Well, 85%

There are some operations you're going to be expected to do which relate to HTML such as querying a database and then assembling a string of computer generated HTML back

And then there are some bridging technologies you'll need to userstand, such as SQL and JSON

But your knowledge of the front end doesn't need, in theory, to extend past a handful of hours of youtube tutorials

That said, developers are expected to be versed in numerous languages (and tools in those languages), with front end web languages being one of the most important. I really do suggest that you regard learning them as a priority.

Especially since the front end languages are ridiculously simple in comparison to some of the stuff you'll have to learn. C/C++ (an absolute must for any serious developer) is a bitch of a disorienting language to learn if you start from Python but is actually the most similar in many respects of all the compiled languages. Functional languages (a solid "nice to have" on the resume) are an unmitigated mindfuck.

There's a reason it takes four years to get the degree, and then another two in the industry before you're considered an actualized programmer

[shut shard]

I see, then would it be worthwhile to learn frontend first and then dived back into backend later?

[dark moon]

I would, personally, caution you against thinking of it in those terms

The whole web "domain" is a lot better partitioned from other domains of computer science, which as a rule are all integrated with each other to completeness

But it's still a wholistic field. You must address all the parts as but parts of the whole. Don't focus so much on learning one language at a time, as tackling it all one project at a time in a sequence with growing complexity

[true harness]

then another two in the industry before you're considered an actualized programmer
huh? are you not a programmer when you get a job programming?

[dark moon]

https://tenor.com/view/i-aint-gonna-argue-with-you-this-shit-aint-no-debate-bye-bye-not-gonna-argue-blah-blah-blah-gif-13095723

😛 ❤️

[true harness]

??

[shut shard]

Got it, thanks a lot for the insight, appreciate it.

[true harness]

dude half of the things you've said are completely unsubstantiated or just weird

C/C++ (an absolute must for any serious developer)
??

[shut shard]

I was wondering a little about that too lol, is it really an absolute must to learn c to become a good developer?

[true harness]

not at all. it may help, but nowhere near mandatory

[shut shard]

I see

[true harness]

The whole web "domain" is a lot better partitioned from other domains of computer science, which as a rule are all integrated with each other to completeness
computer science as a whole is not very related to most software engineering, so not really sure what you mean by this

[vapid jay]

Are you in school, Doge?

[shut shard]

Yes, highschool

[peak halo]

I don't agree with C/++ or two years of industry experience imparting some inherent legitimacy to being a "programmer". you can understand how memory and primitive types work without knowing C. And job hunting is supposedly a lot smoother after two years in industry, but that doesn't leave the first two years illegitimate.

[vapid jay]

Are you planning to get a CS degree or something similar?

[shut shard]

Yes, I do plan on going for a CS degree once I graduate from high school

[vapid jay]

In that case no need to decide you wanna become a python backend developer from now. That's very narrow goal.

[shut shard]

Is that so, I thought it would be better to know what I want to be, and start early to achieving in that goal

[true harness]

definitely no harm in learning the tech, though. he just means keeping your options open is generally good

[shut shard]

Ah, alright 👍

[ivory sluice]

please reach out to instagram directly about this, no one here can help on this issue and it's not on topic for this channel

[vapid jay]

yez

[daring mason]

Is Help Desk tier 2 typically outbound calls? So you're not in an open call queue

[ivory sluice]

in my company tier 2 is still receiving inbound calls but also escalations from other employees. i think your question is probably out of scope for this channel though unless you can tie it back to python or coding-related careers

[daring mason]

you're right

@ivory sluice thanks for answering it anyway

[peak halo]

@wet silo see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[formal kernel]

Currently I’m a CS student without an emphasis. Should I focus on something or would it be better to just learn a little bit of everything in order to be able to succeed and be able to find a career after college? So far I have taken Python and Java.

[smoky quest]

My main advice would be to explore what's out there to see what vibes with you. It will help create a culture of CS and understand better the trade offs for your future career

Hi and welcome!
However we don't do ads in this server

[formal kernel]

I really enjoy programming because all the problem solving. But I am curious as to what else is out there that is similar

[smoky quest]

programming as a way to solve problems is a mean to an end, not an end to itself. It means there are many ways to go about it and so many different types of problems to solve!
In addition, computer science is concerned a lot about how to process and manage information. This applies to basically everything 😉

So make games, robots, backends, frontend, IoT stuff, etc.

Even making your own raytracer, compiler or database or device driver would teach you a lot about various aspects of the field

[buoyant seal]

Agreed. That is incorrect.
In general this is said by CS students btw. As it is quite often their part of university, yet they have zero work experience, plus add here dunning Kruger effect.
Voila. More than half students say this thing. I had similar opinion during uni too.
(We could extend our group of people who say that, to any novices who just learned data structures and algorithms in C/C++.)

[smoky quest]

Regardless of the argument, I would recommend to tone it down. It would make for friendlier discussions

(It's more difficult to catch the tone on the Internet)

[buoyant seal]

Fixed

[smoky quest]

Thanks! Just making sure people don't make it personal and focus more on the actual arguments than their own person/feelings

But yeah, I do agree that the way that argument is phrased could derail the discussion. There are many serious developers who do not know C/C++ and nor do they need to.
That said, there are benefits to understand the different abstraction layers. It also comes down to learning top -> down or bottom -> up. Each one having their own pros/cons

[buoyant seal]

All righty. Btw there is a thing number two of similar nature. That it is useful experience to learn multiple languages from a start. I think it is incorrect too. First 3 years of career should be concentrated on one language. It is still useful that students tried multiple language briefly in order for them to choose better area they like though. Purely because of that. Not because it is useful for skills

[smoky quest]

I like the idea of learning a first language as a support to learning algorithms and computational thinking.
And then learning different languages from completely different paradigms (logic, functional, OOP, actor model, etc.) as a way to expand the mind

[smoky quest]

In the context of the discussion, the c/c++ would be more relevant to the memory model and pointer arithmetic. It doesn't require c/c++ either in theory

[buoyant seal]

It would be a bit less understandable without memory pointers in language to learn it.
We can only simulate stuff in python

[smoky quest]

yeah, and you could then talk about compilation vs link.
But at the end of the day it comes down to what you are trying to learn.

And none of these are related to being a "serious developer"

it's also interesting as it calls back to the definition of an amateur vs a professional. By definition an amateur is not necessarily less skilled than a professional. It just means they aren't doing it as a job

[buoyant seal]

It is nice to know in order to have part of basic knowledge to optimize things... But the amount of importance put into this is kind of overrated.

I had some company interview, who went explicitly into caring only about it, and having white board type interview, where they asked me to debug program, and then forbade to use unit testing or visual debugger. Just so they collect similar metrics from other interviewed.

I felt a bit wronged with their approaches.

They did not check for anything else besides optimization at basic data structures.

Clean code? Code architecture? Refactorizations? Nah. They did not check a single aspect except this

I kind of thought they aren't real developers to be honest

[smoky quest]

It's like a relationship. Someone messy wouldn't go well with someone tidy

We could argue about who is right or wrong, but that won't change how they look at things

Their interview questions will give away a lot of information about how they look at things

That said, I do agree with you that absolute position only lead to absolute decisions and that is not what you would want. I would rather see a nuanced position

[buoyant seal]

Well. Actually may be I was just interviewed by data scientist instead of software engineer. That would explain few things.

Company perhaps mistook that if they hire person for web development, it is good to have interview conducted by data scientist since it is Python Dev too.

[smoky quest]

It's a wild guess.
Sometimes you get a new grad or someone who has no experience in interviewing. Sometimes they are more experienced.
Sometimes, they are just idiots, or super smart.

[buoyant seal]

DS learn as important stuff other things first. SWE is less important secondary stuff at their path, or at least more rare to learn because of other priorities

[smoky quest]

oh and sometimes, they just have a big ego and want to feel smart

either way, interviews will tell you as much about you than the company itself

[buoyant seal]

xD right. It is really nice to reach a milestone when u can finally choose a company as well.

At path beginning it is sort of a lot of luck and u can't really reject a chance to get in

At some point u reject companies just because they don't align with your career plans

Or because of some other red flags

Considering that u choose where to put a few years of your lifetime at least usually, the choice needs to be careful

[smoky quest]

yep. There is a say along the lines of "you have the friends you deserve"

if you choose a crappy company, you will have a crappy experience

That's also linked to why I don't lie in interviews and don't accept any company who would lie to me

[vapid jay]

is cs worth it?

[smoky quest]

yes

[vapid jay]

what are the main differences between it and cs?

[smoky quest]

https://www.gcu.edu/blog/engineering-technology/whats-difference-between-computer-science-and-information-technology
(first link from google)

[vapid jay]

thank u!

[quiet pilot]

Please help me with this , I'm having a hard time to understand what each course does

[near ocean]

You should be reading each course's syllabus, not their titles

I would look at the cloud engineering and devops syllabus in particular, sounds the most interesting to me

[coarse crag]

it sounds like the one that will make more money as well 🤣

but in the end it depends on his interests tho

[near ocean]

Eh, that depends, devops is really hot right now but DS&AI also pays a butt ton
And depending on the company, blockchain stuff will also pay
You could probably find blockchain startups that pay an obscene amount of money for devs

[coarse crag]

well yeah that's right, maybe i should've said that it's what's more available (as in jobs opportunities) and in demand now rather than more money.

anyone can make alot of money i guess

actually, i'm not really sure, it's just that i heard from a senior dev that the opportunities in data science are so little while there are lots of people wanting to go into data science

[near ocean]

I get the feeling that people go into AI and DS thinking they'll get to build a JARVIS, or thats what i get from peeps asking questions in this server

Imho AI is plenty boring and you probably couldnt pay me to go into it

[coarse crag]

hahhahaha

[coarse crag]

someone i know is studying ai and machine learning for his master, but he said it's just math and math and he didn't like it because he wants to create things

[near ocean]

My own opinion comes from doing my masters thesis with deep learning and I can tell you it fucking sucked

[coarse crag]

yeah i believe what you said lol

just like you i think i find devops and cloud engineering more interesting

[coarse crag]

btw it seems to me that it's just the options for specializations. the first one is the general degree for CSE. the next three ones are CSE but in the course you'll be specializing in the subject mentioned on each. and i don't really know what the last one does. never really seen a combination of cs and business.

[gusty niche]

which is better data science or AI ML with cse?

or plain cse, i am stuck for days

[coarse crag]

maybe @ mariosis can answer that

[gusty niche]

yea pls

[near ocean]

It sounds like a couple of business management related modules, i personally wouldnt go for that one

[near ocean]

Whats better is whichever you enjoy most

[gusty niche]

i like both and i have to see placements + salary

[coarse crag]

i think it will be hard for anyone to answer that. because it really depends on your country, the syllabus for your course, and also the salary and placements etc depends on your country too

[gusty niche]

which one has large scope in future basically

[near ocean]

All of them, they're all computer science degrees

I don't think a speciality matters in a bachelor's

[coarse crag]

i kinda agree with mariosis that it's pretty much the same for all of the options you mentioned above. maybe you wanna wait for someone with more expertise to answer your question..

[blissful forge]

TLDR; last 2 para

Hi, I am thinking of changing majors from electrical engineering to computer science, because I have that option right now, it's only been 1 year which was mostly common for both majors. I want to ask something.

The reason I want to switch is because:
1- I am a lazy ass, would prefer to work on computer than field work. Though there are engineering jobs too without field work.

2- More importantly, I really like programming, and I like maths. And I find the maths used in CS way more interesting than the physics used in engineering.

The deadline to switch is next week. If I talk from interest alone, I would say CS without a doubt. I just have a concern.

In programming, there's also this thing where you need to know stuff like how to use a framework, libraries, functions, etc while I understand the need for it, the list just never ends and I think that seems rather boring and uninteresting to me since it becomes more like a skill to get used to like driving and not much interesting like cracking a problem.

I am wondering if the things I like about programming now which are problem-solving, logic building, mathematical thinking are what software developers use in their work more or is the demand more for "knowing more", knowing how to use certain libraries, frameworks, etc and if anyone knows how to use them, most people can get the work done anyway?

I suppose my contention is not with my interest in the field of CS, it's more about whether I would enjoy the work of a software developer or not.

[coarse crag]

@ recursive_error would always say that libraries, frameworks or even a programming language itself are just tools. so it doesn't matter what tool you use, as long as you get the job done. i am still a beginner, but reading your texts, i believe you'll love software development. You probably will learn lots of languages and tools BUT people here say that you can just learn them when you actually need them. That goes the same for frameworks, libraries etc. have you tried https://adventofcode.com/ ? it's a challenging coding website. most developers in this server love this one. for more beginner friendly ones maybe you can try codewars.com.. if you love solving these problems with programming, i'm pretty sure software development is for you. But, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't need to learn frameworks, libraries, etc.. you've got alot of things to learn, like computer networking, operating systems, data structures and algorithms, etc.. but in the end, the goal of learning those things are to solve problems in your software.

[coarse crag]

@blissful forge btw, have you heard of the saying that "you probably will only use 30% of python for doing your daily tasks in programming"? it's mostly the same everywhere. sometimes you just need to know a little part of a certain library, not the whole thing. it's back to the previous conclusion that they are just tools to solve the problem. you don't need to learn 10 different ways to use a hammer if all you have to do is to just to put a nail on a wood.

[dusty sentinel]

I'm looking for Python and Node programmers to help build something truly different and world changing. Revolves around IPFS and Ethereum contracts for events and data ownership/lifecycle ... seeking active developers and investors.

contact me on facebook fb.me/admdbrn or http//getme.s.lamc.la

[gilded valley]

recruiting is not allowed here

[graceful mason]

have you considered something like embedded software engineering? you can use some of the skills and knowledge from electrical engineering but tend to use less non-fundamental frameworks/libraries

[blissful forge]

Nope, haven't considered it. My uni offers computer engineering, i suppose that's similar to what you mentioned

Btw it's not like I have done anything too much EE-related in 1st yr. There were 2 main foundational courses related to EE so far but even CS students do them because 1st yr is kinda common.

[peak halo]

!resources @vague lion

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[dense mesa]

CS would be pretty good

[restive birch]

yo does anyone need a tutorial on requests and webscraping

[analog sun]

Like I said before, feel free to share it if it is a useful resource. But do note that cross posting it seems like advertising, which we don't allow.

Also this channel's topic is the discussion of careers.

[restive birch]

Alright brother

[abstract current]

how much do online certifications matter?

[gilded valley]

almost zero for generic software engineering

[true harness]

only ones like AWS, GCP, azure, matter a little bit

[abstract current]

well thats what I was talking about

and what do you mean by "generical software engineering"

[gilded valley]

Cloud certs matter far more for roles that are specifically focused on cloud stuff - SRE and devops people etc

[shut night]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sharannyobasu_10-resume-tips-for-beginners-to-get-hired-activity-6954820216581169152-wnJd?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=android_app

Top 10 Resume Tips to get Hired.

[analog sun]

Hello, please don't drop links without context.

[true harness]

looks like an ad lol

[toxic venture]

Any interview prep material for early to mid level that you recommend?

[abstract current]

whats it like working as a sdet?

[hearty island]

this seems like a scam to me who types dates like that

[peak halo]

Java (and C# to a lesser extent) has been the most popular language for enterprise development for a long time, so that's to be expected. In industry, I think Python is mostly used for data science and web development.

I work for a research company, and we pretty much only use Python.

[peak halo]

it also doesn't look like a position that you want.

[true harness]

data entry isn't really anything to do with programming

[hearty island]

whoopsie

[hearty island]

yeah my whole thing is business analytics this was supposed to be a summer job

[hearty island]

i have a first round interview for black rock 🗿🗿🗿

[dense mesa]

London? Got a friend there

[hearty island]

the firm

[ebon iris]

is it possible anyone can send me a resume so i can review it and better understand what my resume should contain

[graceful mason]

if you post your (censored) resume people can review it here

[ebon iris]

well the thing is I haven't tailored a resume for python related jobs

the only resume i have currently is my airframe and powerplant resume

[dense mesa]

I'm asking which location as I have a friend at the London office 😁

[true harness]

generally, for programming related things, you'd have 4 sections: education, skills, work experience, and projects

[ebon iris]

Thank you that's exactly what i was looking for 👍🏻

[true harness]

https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/awesome-cv/dfnvtnhzhhbm this one is a nice template, except for the weird red font coloring

[hearty island]

ohhh sorry i’m being dumb

the Atlanta office

[chrome cedar]

So for some interviews where you are given some programming question and have some time to answer the prompt (like a week, not being supervised), what kind of questions would you say is too much?
I got one that was to make a django backend for a text-based adventure that reads some data from a given json file and would populate state information in a postgresql, and all of it needs to run in a Docker container - and they said it would take 5-10 hours
I was sitting there and started writing the application before thinking to myself that, between a full-time job and having to do regular things like chores, I barely have time to do this prompt, and I don't think this could be done in 10 hours (at least to my standards)

My question is, is this too much to ask of applicants? I feel like I get either extremely easy questions or insanely difficult/tedious ones, but none in the middle

[near remnant]

is it normal to wait a week or maybe more than a week for the written offer?

[smoky quest]

5-10h over a week is not abnormal

[smoky quest]

nope it's not normal

[chrome cedar]

That's what I was thinking
The job itself sounded awesome, it was a team of about 30 people basically doing contract work with big companies. Met 2 of the team members who I liked, but this big request was kind of nuts
Not sure how I want to word my response of "this is a lot of work for someone to do just as an application for a job"

[smoky quest]

Wait, I did say "not abnormal", which means it's normal.

If it's too much time for you, you could say that you don't have enough time. But then the alternative is to spend 5-6h in coding interviews 😉

You could also try to negotiate some down scoping, but that's really up to them and how you compare to the other candidates

[chrome cedar]

See but I went through a 1 hour interview with Amazon just recently and got invited to a virtual "tour" / 2nd round interview that's 4-6 hours
But that is supervised and not all of it is strictly myself getting interviewed, since there's the "tour" part
But also it's Amazon
This other company obviously much, much smaller lol

[near remnant]

why?

[smoky quest]

Because that's a risk. Finding a great candidate takes months and is painful. And the longer they wait, the more likely the candidate will have other offers (the candidate is good so they will pass other inteviews).
Thus if you find someone you like, you want to close the deal asap.

If you take longer, it means you are undecided, they are leading you in, or they are waiting on the response of another candidate

[smoky quest]

Sure. It comes down to hours of coding interview VS homework. At the end of the day, it's up to you

[chrome cedar]

this 100%
Often you get messages from recruiters where you've already gone through some of the process asking questions like:
When would you be able to start?
Are you interviewing elsewhere?
Do you have any job offers from elsewhere?

Because they want to know where you stand in terms of looking elsewhere

[near remnant]

there is no other candidate, but I was told the process might get delayed so FML

[smoky quest]

They are bullshitting you

I would recommend to not stop interviewing. If anything, that will add some pressure for them to wrap up

[near remnant]

why would they bullshitting me? what are they getting out of it?

[smoky quest]

They get to keep you warm as a backup option

[near remnant]

im interviewing for other companies as well tho, i don't stop until a written offer

[near remnant]

yeah, but i told you there are no other candidates because I've got referred to the company by the lead dev for an internship, it wasn't posted..so its a big tricky. but i understand, honestly mate, im not sure

[smoky quest]

Then there may be some background politics at play.

[vapid jay]

is cs as hard as they say?

[smoky quest]

depends on your definition of hard

[vapid jay]

so, i know cs has a lot of math, which im not worried about ill just spend some extra time to try and understand them, but does that time i will have no free time for studying?

[near remnant]

idk mate, check linkedin perhaps?

[smoky quest]

It's not as scary as it sounds. It's also more interesting as it's a lot more practical

[vapid jay]

that's a relief to read, thanks you!

[smoky quest]

What about your friend who recommended you?

[near remnant]

He told me to just wait because the CEO might be on vacation and also things are a bit slower during Summer

but this phone call after the final interview was on last Thursday

what do you recommend?

[smoky quest]

when was the last communication with the company?

[near remnant]

last Thursday, the phone call

[proud mulch]

This is a more general question.
I have to learn one of those following combinations really quick (1-2 weeks) and have no experience at all with those languages.

1. combination: C# + SQL
2. combination: Delphi + SQL
3. combination: JS + html + css + PostgreSQL

Which one of those combinations should I pick ??

[smoky quest]

It wouldn't hurt to send an email today

[true harness]

you don't really have a chance of learning any of those in 1-2 weeks

[proud mulch]

um, what has the highest chance of at least somewhat working out ?

[ebon iris]

honestly i don't really think any but delphi is nice to have lol

[true harness]

do you have any programming experience? if so, what

[ebon iris]

but c# is probably more usable

[proud mulch]

yes, I do have experience coding with python and a little bit of lua

[proud mulch]

well, it's not about whats nice to have, since I obviously can't learn all 3 combinations I have to settle for one and hope to at least somewhat be able to use it

[ebon iris]

c# then

[smoky quest]

it also depends for what purpose and to what degree

sounds fair

[near remnant]

I just don't want to come across as needy or annoying

[proud mulch]

internship at a tech company, need to learn one of those 3 combinations to do an internship at that company and I already told the CEO (he's close with my mother) that I will do the internship so I have to learn one of the combinations in 1-2 weeks since that's when I will do the internship.

[smoky quest]

yeah spacing them is fair. That's why I asked about the last time you had some communication with them

[proud mulch]

I think somewhat basic-advanced knowledge is fine, don't have to know all frameworks that exist for that language but yeah, should know something at least

[near remnant]

so you think tomorrow is fine?

[dark moon]

So, I've set my sights on getting a scholarship/grant or two between now and my final year

Not so much for the money — though that is a factor — but as a matter of padding my resume

Every scholarship I find, however, demands some kind of "excellent in community leadership" or "history of promoting diversity in my field"

My questions are these: how can I track down scholarships that relate solely to my grades (I'm an A- student on average)

And, since I'm actually willing to and a bit excited by the prospect of "leadership" and "engagement", what sort of "stuff" do I need to be engaging to demonstrate the kind of leadership qualities that would make me eligible for all of these scholarship

And I suppose, also, is there some way I can apply for all of these scholarships in mean time without having much of a "history of engagement". All I can really boast is that I've been offering probono tutoring for a few years now

[smoky quest]

Either way, it wouldn't change much.
If they were on the fence, a thank you email may make a difference, but considering what you said, that wouldn't have an impact.

[near remnant]

yeah, I feel like I'm fixed for the position it just delayed or I'm just getting too impatient. if I don't get any response by tomorrow, I'll call them. thanks mate!

[modest cave]

I'm transitioning into college in just under a year, I am certain that I want to study computer science but I don't know what else to pair it with?

[buoyant seal]

What are the options for pairing?

[dark moon]

The standard accompaniments are either math, digital media, or if itself offered at your school, graphic design

If you intend to go into AI then math will be a good choice, but if you'd rather work for a small studio than graphic design would be a major feather in your cap (in my opinion)

I thought I'd go the math route until I had my first discrete math. Fuck discrete math. And honestly, fuck math teachers in general. At least in my country, math is a very elitist field — you're either in or you're out

[true harness]

what country?

[dark moon]

Canada

I remember my teacher telling me to my face once, when I came to him asking for some advice because I was struggling

That if it didn't immediately make sense to me I just wasn't cut out for a math major

Now, maybe he was right. That's still not an acceptable perspective to be passing down

[delicate bane]

i dont like teachers who do that either

[vapid jay]

Any tips on how to start networking in the industry as someone who is self-taught and has no connections whatsoever?

[covert plaza]

Yeah, I'd love some advise too. I never had social media, and I created my LinkedIn yesterday.

[glad shuttle]

If I would wanna get into full stack development then wat part of full stack development should I learn first.

[coarse crag]

there is no fullstack roadmap in this site, but maybe you want to take a look at this? https://roadmap.sh/

[glad shuttle]

oh thx

[delicate bane]

fullstack = frontend + backend

[glad shuttle]

isnt there more?

[coarse crag]

i know, but i thought maybe he wanted like something that's already combined

[glad shuttle]

doesnt app development fall under full stack

[coarse crag]

i'm not sure but i think that falls under another category. it could be web app, or mobile app, etc.. but yeah it's kinda fullstack i guess

[ripe pagoda]

Hi does anyone have an entry level data science resume who came transferred from a stem industry?

[onyx locust]

hey so if I'm writing a portfolio application, what should be my priority. I can already predict that functionality is a must but I'm talking more specifically as in code readability, coding conventions, the dos and don'ts when writing portfolio apps. Could someone give me pointers? I'm writing an app in fastapi+flutter as a python developer for my resume.

[smoky quest]

yes to all of the above. People will look at it as if you were hired. That means making sure the code is readable, commented, without profanity, with tests, CI/CD, readme, license, organized directory/packages/libraries, etc.

[onyx locust]

also, how do hirer's look at portfolio apps. do they go to github and etc? do they look at the live app it self? what are thier determining factors to win them over

[smoky quest]

depends on the role. If they are hiring a frontend/mobile, they may care a lot more about testing out the UI and then the repo.
On the backend, they may care more about the repository

Either way, the repository is expected to match how you would work

(ex: even if your UI is consistent and fluid, having a shitty code behind it won't help make your case)

[onyx locust]

okay, so if im applying for a job as a python backend developer, i should make sure the code is clean and optimised where as if i was applying for a flutter dev, i should have clean ui/ux?

[smoky quest]

and as flutter dev, your code should also be clean and organized

"Optimized" wouldn't matter so much for junior roles, as long as you don't shoot yourself in the foot

[honest pivot]

I can tell you, I put a huge amount of effort into a GitHub project over several months with a specific focus on clean coding practices and using modern language features (C++), and (according to GitHub traffic monitor), nobody has looked at it until quite late in the interview processes. This definitely tracks with my personal opinion (on the hiring side) that most people's GitHub projects are not really very good and I don't have time to look at them, generally.

[onyx locust]

oh wait, nvrm.

[honest pivot]

I'm saying you absolutely should do a project, and put effort into writing the best code you can, but it is quite likely it won't be a factor until late in the process.

[smoky quest]

Your resume is your main outlet.
You should not expect people to start with your portfolio. But as a reviewer, if people link their projects in their resume, I would go look at them down the process (or if I am on the fence)

[onyx locust]

well, i dont have experience, like at all, my resume is going to look like a repeat of so many self-taught individuals that applied for jobs as well. altough my skillset flatteringly stands out a little bit, its not amazing. my apps are my main display of performance and my resume would only be a outline. and as i've heard, if im not a professional, i shouldnt have a resume longer than one page

[smoky quest]

The goal of your resume should include to make me want to learn more about you. That goes through nice descriptions of your projects for instance

but if you expect people to spend a lot of time on your repositories, that wouldn't be the right expectations. They just don't have the time for that many candidates

[dark moon]

Oh shiet, Recursive is back at it

Kicking ass and taking names 😎

https://tenor.com/view/sunglasses-cant-deal-with-it-gif-5853358

[smoky quest]

10 minutes spent on 100 candidates is literally 16.7 hours. two full days

[onyx locust]

yeah that part i kinda expected. they're reviewing people, why would they even look at the repo. I guess its going to take some word smithing to win the minds of the the hirers in one page

[honest pivot]

Make sure your repo has a nice readme that explains the most important parts of it at a high level, as well

[dark moon]

Don't forget to send bitcoin alongside your resume. It really greases the wheels

[smoky quest]

The great part is that you have full control over the resume and what people see and get out of it

[onyx locust]

imagine

also one more question. And i think this was previously asked but im 18, how badly does that damage my culpability as a developer because we're all humans and it doesnt take much to get alot of doubt an 18 year old.

[smoky quest]

You would be more likely to develop a stronger imposter syndrome

(and again, I strongly encourage 18 years old to go get a degree)

[onyx locust]

no i meant from the pov of a hirer

well im in uni right now doing soft eng degree but its not motivated at all.

[smoky quest]

oh, then, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs.
Why would I put you on top of the stack comparing to the 100 other candidates?

[smoky quest]

I would then recommend to dig into why is that

[dark moon]

In terms of your hireability, its both an asset and a liability. They want young and hungry programmers. At least they did at one point in the industry. But 18 is still very very young, and its a sign that unless you've been super genius coding at a college level since you started growing facial hair you don't yet have the foundation they expect (i.e. a degree)

But hell, you're too young to be this worried. Go to college. Huff some glue, catch crabs. Have some fun. There will be time for work

[onyx locust]

I'm not going to make a case for why I want a job. But without sounding like a pumpkin, I've been coding since I was in year 9, that's when I was 15. at the age of 18 I've written a lot of code, granted it's not revolutionary code but for my age, I believe I'm on par with 3rd year engineering students. I'm going to take a bit of a vulnerable stance (or ignorant as it might come off) but I seriously don't believe my age is a factor in my performance. I guess if recursive is right (which they almost always are) then I need to work on my speech and show off my ability.

[honest pivot]

Lots of people have been coding since that age or younger, and a lot of them are the engineering students you're comparing yourself to

The degree will teach you things you probably haven't thought about. It will also definitely get you taken more seriously when you apply for jobs.

[onyx locust]

well that doesn't necessarily discredit my abilities. And being from aus, the industry is filled with people that have been working in those jobs for a long time. Also im doing bach of eng, and im going to finish it, just seems like i could possibly learn that stuff online after seeing the course outlines of the degree

[smoky quest]

I have been coding since younger than that, have hired and interviewed people who have been coding since 9 years and younger, and I can assure you that I don't believe you have the equivalent skills of a 3rd year engineering student

[dark moon]

I won't bother to give you a lecture about the benefits of school. All I'll say is that I was in a similar situation to you, and I had my ego fed to me a few times before I learned the golden rule

[smoky quest]

(not saying you are bad technically, but I wouldn't consider that equivalent)

[onyx locust]

what were the stand-out qualities of those individuals, what made you understand that they're good programmers and are up to the task

[dark moon]

Don't be cocky, dammit. Beyond that — have fun now while you're young.

[smoky quest]

Who is they in that question?

[onyx locust]

the individuals that you hired, specifically individuals who started programming really young.

[smoky quest]

that would not be comparable to you since they also had degrees

[honest pivot]

Also, where you are in skill and knowledge is much more important than how fast you got there

[smoky quest]

Adding on to what @honest pivot said, given you have been spending a lot of time coding, you most likely have a high proficiency in terms of computational thinking. But you are missing all the theory and abstract reasoning which would enable you to take these skills much further

[onyx locust]

what kind of theory can i learn from uni that i cant learn online. Im like really demotivated to even make a commit knowing its really not going to have any value until i get a degree.

[smoky quest]

In abstract, one can learn anything on their own. In practice they rarely know it exist or even take the actual time to do it, or do not have access to the experts to ask questions to

[onyx locust]

man thats a eye opener, so the standards for self-taught individuals are insanely higher than what i anticipated

[dark moon]

I remember the first time I tried to implement an AVL tree

I'd been programming for years, and it still kicked my ass

[smoky quest]

that's what made it exciting for me

[honest pivot]

You should work on personal projects now, for sure, while you have so much free time. The idea is to have some nice things to show when you do finish your degree.

[dark moon]

What they're saying is very true. I, like you, came into school with a great deal of "experience". In reality, this experience was excellent practice in terms of thinking, but my actual knowledge of the relevant skills was riddled with holes

[onyx locust]

are internships in the picture at all?

[dark moon]

3rd year

[honest pivot]

Internships are valuable, yeah

[dark moon]

After two years of foundational learning, a handful of group projects, and one course of workplace prep

[onyx locust]

xD man i cannot catch a break

aight well i guess i should focus on uni then.

[smoky quest]

are you in the first year?

[onyx locust]

yeah, first year of bach eng

[dark moon]

Well think about it. Most programmers are going to be expected to be conversant in at least two languages, as well as the full gambit of web langs from HTML to SQL

[smoky quest]

yeah, the first year is in general used to review the basics to make sure everyone had learned about them. It should get more interesting afterwards

[honest pivot]

gamut

[dark moon]

Not to mention understand networking, security, compilers, multilanguage systems, and concurrency, to name a few specific domains of thought

[onyx locust]

aight well i appreciate the time and advice, got my priorities set straight now. probably going to delete vsc for a little bit, going to be a major distraction for me, hopefully i can do the best i can for 3 more whole ass years.

[smoky quest]

also one last bit of advice: still go to class and still listen to topics you are already familiar with.
Worst case you get to refresh on them and best case, you learn something new about it

[dark moon]

Young and hungry is great, but if you're not careful you'll get your ego fed to you. Like I said, don't be cocky. But hey, there's one plus side to this!

[onyx locust]

yeah no worries, i attend them out of interest anyways. Plus teachers always have a twinge of thier own style so i have to pay attention to any personal biases

[dark moon]

You can bask in the glow of high grades for a few years while also having a chance to be young and stupid and go to some parties

Oh, one bit of advice before you leave

There's one crucial area that going to school will give you a chance to practice. Focus, for the love of god focus, on learning to handle a large work load without an imbalance work life ratio

[onyx locust]

yeah i dont have that

i complete my tasks? but i dont have "balance"

[dark moon]

Develop some good coping techniques. Learn to slow down and breath. Learn that a relaxing walk through the assignment and getting a B is better than a harrowing mad dash towards an A which ultimately leaves you crying in the shower

Four years of straight As won't do you much good if you're so burnt out and stressed at the end that you end up opening a flower shop and never coding again

[onyx locust]

yeah well, its been made crystal clear there's no point to programming until i get that peice of paper that says i've completed this degree. I should use my ambition to something else. besides, makes my parents happy to see that D (D = distinction: Aus grading system)

[dark moon]

https://tenor.com/view/keeping-up-with-the-k-ardashians-kuwtk-kim-kardashian-bed-sleep-gif-17991790

[onyx locust]

wordd

[dark moon]

You know, I've been trying to shift some energy into doing some healthy, non coding related things every day (or every few days at least)

Helping people with homework at the library, going to friday night magic, that sort of thing. And other stuff, like trying to up my cleaning game. And also

Just slowing down. More than pretty much any coding I've done in the last few years, I'm deriving a lot more fulfillment from these things. It feels good.

[heavy canopy]

For anyone who works in the cybersecurity or IT industry, what are some examples of scripts that you write or use when working?

[gritty rivet]

There are loads of stuff on GitHub, what are you looking for specifically?

[heavy canopy]

Like what are some things that you should automate as you go on in your career?

[gilded valley]

The boring stuff

[glad shuttle]

guys

is this of any use?

[peak halo]

if it's an actual course from an accredited institution, and that certificate says that you completed the course, then the certificate does "mean something".

[glad shuttle]

oh ok

[flat ocean]

fair question: If I've been handled some awful code (windows hardcoded paths, loads excel, overwrites intermediate steps, no tests, and overall takes ~8 hours to run), that produces a bad value somewhere in the end. Am I doing wrong if I rewrite some parts? it hurts me physically.

I'm thinking I'm slow/dumb/not efficient because I can't work with this.

[peak halo]

I would be careful not to make the code "more pretty" until you've figured out why it has an incorrect result. but if it doesn't have any tests and its known to be inaccurate, I would send it back to the author until they figure it out.

[flat ocean]

author left the org last year

[peak halo]

at least there's that.

[flat ocean]

what do you mean?

[peak halo]

it means that person is no longer producing shit code that you have to deal with.

[flat ocean]

I can't figure out the error because launching the debugger takes forever to step in

I mean, I can, but as I said, it's painful xd

[tulip ermine]

Can someone guide me on how to start learning algorithms and prepare for a software engineering job at the age of 14(I will be 15 next year march)

I already have some knowledge with c++ but I want to start over with python

[peak halo]

the best thing you can do to prepare for a software engineering job is to do well in school (especially math) and position yourself to get into a CS program. You can worry about algorithms in your spare time, I guess, but that would be a deeply secondary priority.

[tulip ermine]

Alr

[chilly nebula]

oh nice its really good that this channel exists

[glossy surge]

Hi. Can anyone help me in finding some useful video tutorials to begin learning Python?

[analog sun]

!resources - we have some collected stuff here. There is also Corey Schafer on Youtube

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[glossy surge]

Okay. Thank You:))

[delicate bane]

[frosty terrace]

Got through my first phase of the screening for software developer!

However they are saying they will be sending me an email with Screening Test/Interview Questions. Is that common?

[smoky quest]

Depends how it fits with your first screening, but it's normal in general

[summer roost]

what did the first phase consist of?

[hearty island]

holy shit the data analytics internship at BMW reached out to me

the only problem is that it’s in new jersey and i’m in NY which is a major L

[frosty terrace]

First it said I was short listed. Then they send me interview questions, that were just basic interview questions for any job. So I'm guessing there will be more, wouldn't there?

[summer roost]

I'd guess so.

[delicate bane]

is it? i heard of the opposite where people live in NJ and work in NY though

[gritty rivet]

Wait, you mean people still have to go to physical offices to work? I must be out of touch 🤣

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

yeah but it’s during the school year too

idk what to do here i emailed saying i hope i can do remote

[abstract current]

anyone here ever worked as a sdet?

[gritty rivet]

That's probably all you can do at this point. Did they not make it clear when you applied that this would be part of the deal?

[gritty rivet]

Job titles can be fuzzy, you might just want to ask your actual question

[hearty island]

it just says “expected to start in woodcliff lake, nj”

man if it’s remote that’s good but i am beginning to think they’ll be like nah you’re not remote so fuck you

[abstract current]

@gritty rivet I was just wondering if it's easier to break into the field as a tester

im reading that testing is less desirable which means there is less competition

[gritty rivet]

There are entry level roles in testing for sure. Don't put yourself in a box though, just apply to anything that might match your skillset

[abstract current]

thats what i've been doing

but software develoment in general is so competitive at least where I live

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

imagine having an internship like that being yanked bc you aren't in nj

[delicate bane]

yeah look at this. low pay + in-person. "best of both worlds"

[frosty terrace]

they're telling me training is $35 and hour, afterwards $65 per hour 😮

[ivory sluice]

people with such high hourly rates are usually salaried haha. this is a full time direct employee hire?

• usually salaried and exempt from being paid overtime

[shy current]

Would a professional python certification like the PCPP (https://pythoninstitute.org/pcpp1) stand out to get into good colleges?

[hearty island]

you don't necessarily need a certificate

[shy current]

Yea I know but could it be an extra thing that I could add?

K thanks

[near remnant]

i dont know im probably brain damaged

[hearty island]

wow they're asking me for availability to talk to the hiring manager for a 30 minute interview

why we moving so FUCKING FASTTTTT

[near ocean]

Its an initial call, whats fast about it

Its the start of the interview process

[frosty terrace]

... heh seems to good to be true, they said im hired and I'll start at $65 an hour.

and they're sending me the offer tomorrow

I haven't even had a phone interview yet, just emails

no tests, just basic interview questions, whole thing seems sketchy..

[honest pivot]

I'm also confused why it's hourly, but that sounds pretty good

ah, well, how do you feel about them?

[hearty island]

check out the company on glassdoor?

[frosty terrace]

the company is a real company, the hiring team is hair stylist... ??

[honest pivot]

Remember that you're interviewing your potential employers, too. I would want to get to know my future team and manager a bit before making a decision

[near ocean]

65USD an hour is 124k a year, is this your first job?

[frosty terrace]

not my first job, first programming job. They also didn't test my coding skills at all.

[near ocean]

Sounds very suspect, no phone call, no video chat?
Keep responding to them but i would also keep applying to other places

[frosty terrace]

no phone call, no video chat, they said they want me to start ASAP, they're sending a job offer tomorrow. They also said they will send me money to buy required equipment to set up a mini-office

[near ocean]

Hmmmm, yea, if they ask for card or account info its definitely a scam

[frosty terrace]

The company is a real company, I am not sure if the recruiter is real.

has anyone ever dealt with this before?

[crystal berry]

If you have to ask, "is it a scam?" the answer is probably yes

This all sounds very fishy, be careful

[near ocean]

To me it sounds like a classic scam

Give me your account info so I can deposit the money you need for X equipment
Suddenly youre out all your money

[crystal berry]

Or, "you'll just need to pay a small fee for the background check etc... go to western union/buy gift cards"

I just went through the whole interview process at a bunch of companies (new job btw 🎉) and they are all slow as heck

[frosty terrace]

What you recommend, accepting the job offer and seeing what happens?

[near ocean]

Sure, just dont give any details
No company is going to ask you for bank info

[pulsar drum]

I would try to schedule an interview anyway so I could ask questions about the company before I accepted an offer.

Ah I see Aurendil said the same essentially.

[brave cargo]

what are some of the career options or fields within cybersecurity

[frosty terrace]

The whole company seems foreign. Got nothing against Indians, but basically that is the entire company. I see no Americans working there. Is that normal?

[pulsar drum]

Are they an international company? Maybe you got the wrong impression of demographics cause you were looking at the wrong location or something.

[frosty terrace]

No headquarters are in Texas

[near ocean]

I dont think its a good sign no, if the company is registered in the US but every engineer is in india it sounds like they outsourced their team (which is bad imho)

Guessing wont do anyone good, you should definitely ask to talk to a real person

[frosty terrace]

"You will receive your offer letter in your email tomorrow and you are expected to sign and email back the signed offer letter. Subsequently, you will be provided with the payment to purchase the equipment from the company's accredited Vendors. You will have the list of the equipment and supplies in the email with your offer letter tomorrow.

After equipment purchase has been made, the Company's accredited Vendors will make the delivery of the equipment to you at your place or at a post office near you depending on your preference. A Senior Software Developer from the Company will also be assisting you with the equipment set up virtually.

Please look out for my email tomorrow for further updates. Take care of yourself and stay safe."

Sounds like a scam.

So disappointed. 😦

[ivory sluice]

you've visited the domain (blahblahblah.com) of the email sender?

you will be provided with the payment
if this entails you giving your bank account details it is most likely a scam, yes.
you would provide bank account details eventually, for payroll since direct deposit is preferred these days

how did you hear of this job?

[frosty terrace]

linkedin

the original email was [e-mail]

[ivory sluice]

if it turns out to be a scam i'd try and report them on the job board.
but the verdict is not totally out yet, i'd say. i'd investigate the company's website for sure

edit: and proceed with extreme caution

they shouldn't be using gmail, tbh.

especially if the company website lists an email such as "[e-mail]"

[crystal berry]

Good on you for recognizing the scam, yeah the @gmail is another red flag.

[pulsar drum]

Even if it isn't a scam, I think that if they're hiring so urgently that they cannot conduct a proper interview, then you may be walking into a bad situation.

[frosty terrace]

im certain it's a scam, I cannot comprehend why they wouldn't at minimum... call me before a job offer.

They didn't even tell me who I would be working with

I reported it to linkedin and they said it was a safe job offer... but the job offer wasn't even using the company linkedin

[vapid jay]

Any tips on how to start networking in the industry as someone who is self-taught and has no connections whatsoever?

[smoky quest]

• hang out on matrix/irc/slack channels of areas of your interest
• attend (virtual) meetups
• Use opportunities to talk about some stuff you did or questions about how people might solve X

[vapid jay]

Thank you, I'll try to find chatrooms and meetups. Never heard of matrix, though

is it possible if i am 14 and know python get a job? like at least like 20 pounds an hour

[smoky quest]

no

[vapid jay]

😦

[smoky quest]

• If you want a job, have a teen job like as a waiter or something
• Aim for a CS degree and make sure you have the grades to do it
• Have fun and build things. Make robots, websites, mobile apps, backend, data analysis, etc. It will help you build a culture of CS, see what's out there and possible as well as getting a better understanding at how things fit together

[vapid jay]

im still learning the basics of python

[vapid jay]

btw what does cs stand for

[smoky quest]

Welcome aboard! That's great!
So it's way too early to think about a job

[smoky quest]

Computer Science

[vapid jay]

i made this it opens a random location on google maps from random import uniform

`from random import uniform

import webbrowser

webbrowser.open('https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@{},{},15z'.format(uniform(-90,90),uniform(-180,180)))

`

[near ocean]

Why would you ask this if you dont know python yet? There's no 14 year old in this world that's working as a software developer

[vapid jay]

im 15 rn im wanting to become an ai engineer what should i focus on in my studies

[smoky quest]

#career-advice message

[vapid jay]

right but like what should i focus on in my grades like math obv but what else

[true harness]

everything

[gilded valley]

If you're set on AI, then ensuring you get good grades in maths and STEM subjects is important - you will end up wanting a MSc or PHD to have the best shot, both of which require you to be good at studying in academic environments - may as well get good now

[vapid jay]

thx yea that was kinda what im already doing anyway just wanted to make sure i shouldnt be focusing on history or something strange

[gilded valley]

honestly there's no reason to let any grades slip

[vapid jay]

no but i only have so many hours in a day better to get 90% in math and 70% in history if you get what i mean

[gilded valley]

This is what I mean by getting good at studying - the better you become at dedicating your spare time to studying the more it will make the transition to the next level of education easier at every step

[smoky quest]

you would be surprised by how much non-technical skills will be impacting your career.
Being able to communicate with ease and having some level of general culture will be of great help

[vapid jay]

communication skills 😨

[gilded valley]

so you should just accept that you're putting in the time to get great grades in both

[smoky quest]

you could be the brightest person on earth, but if no one understand you or you are unable to convince them, then you won't go far

[vapid jay]

half my time is spent at school then 5 hours a day on coding and then around 4 hours studying and then 2 hours of relaxation time

[vapid jay]

i do homeschooling;(

[proven cradle]

Hi 👋 I have been in a Python focused role for about 9 months, my first job and for a respectable company. Is it fitting to leave in a year and find something else? Will companies see me as a deserter?

[smoky quest]

that's fine. But you may want to find some group projects opportunities

[vapid jay]

like game jams?

[smoky quest]

It depends on why you leave and how frequently you do it

[smoky quest]

sure

[smoky quest]

Try to think about their shoes. If someone comes in for a job and they see they can't hold a job for a year. That means either:

• Why would they expect you to stay longer at this job?
• If you leave because of reasons, it's fine for one job. But as the saying goes, if everyone has a problem with you, maybe the problem is you

[proven cradle]

I just see it as chasing $. Their tech stack is outdated. I am staying now just because I work with some really experienced engineers who I am learning from. But I had to relo to a different state and want to go back. In the case they cant transfer me to the office local my home I will have no choice but to leave

[vapid jay]

well wanne see what an ai thinks of it

[proven cradle]

huh?

[vapid jay]

gpt 3

[smoky quest]

As a potential future employer, that's not my problem.
My problem is that it takes months to hire someone and then months to have them ramp up. During that time, I am missing opportunities/bandwith. So if you are gonna leave within a year, it's not worth it for me.
(there would also something to be said about how you miss on some opportunities to build your experience)

[ivory sluice]

that's a bit concerning lol. out of curiosity was it a position you looked for and applied for? or someone messaged you on linkedin and you applied?

[gray bobcat]

#python-discussion

[frosty terrace]

Yes I applied for it. The hiring manager was someone who is a hair stylist, seems like their account was hacked or misused. The company it was under wasn't the official company on linkedin.

So some things I need to make sure now.

• Avoid companies that don't have a linkedin page (very unprofessional anyway)
• Avoid jobs with hiring managers that don't have a photo.
• Always check hiring manager, company, and applied job post before responding to emails.
• Always make sure to have video or call interviews.

Honestly I'm questioning whether I should use LinkedIn, they pretty much ignored my report and they obviously have no regard of protecting employees. There isn't anyway to dispute it or anything.

[smoky quest]

I don't have a photo and I hire people :p

But you are right on the money about having a video call.
And linkedin is one of the most popular platform. Not using it would cut you out of many jobs, so don't throw the baby with the bathwater

[gritty rivet]

If your new job is clearly a step up, 9 months is fine. If it's just a lateral move, it could raise questions. And if it's followed by another lateral move soon after, that's a bigger problem.

[smoky quest]

Depends on what is available in the standard library and the requirements. So potentially yes, potentially no, but one would try to reuse existing and well tested code first

[summer roost]

Python doesn't have a binary search tree in its standard library, so if you need one of those, you might need to write it.

there's probably a library on PyPI that provides binary trees. But someone had to write it.

you will be a much better engineer if you know those, yes.

the important thing about data structures and algorithms is learning what each data structure is good at and bad at - and conversely, knowing which data structure to reach for when you've encountered a certain type of problem.

[lapis wind]

It's useful, but you dont need all of them

[summer roost]

being able to implement them from scratch isn't that important, but implementing them from scratch teaches you things about how they work and how they perform, which makes it much easier to choose the right data structure in the future.

in the real world, if you ever do need to implement a binary tree, you'll be able to open a text book or wikipedia and base your implementation off of a known good one

but the ability to recognize "oh, I need a binary tree for this problem, because X and Y and Z" - that's why we study data structures and algorithms.

[lapis wind]

I think when you're getting started, it's fairly rare that you're going to immediately start needing to implement them yourself, but definitely still useful having some knowledge around the common ones, thinks like their pros and cons will definitely help

[summer roost]

when to use a list (dynamic array) vs a set (hash table), for instance.

that's not on-topic for this channel. Try one of the off-topic channels

!ot-names

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:
• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[frosty terrace]

I removed languages and added an objective, because it seems like people didn't know what I wanted to do. Let me know what you think. Also updated some descriptions for jobs to make them stand out more.

[true harness]

what's VS Studio, Visual Studio Studio?

[frosty terrace]

yes, lol thanks

[lapis wind]

would change that to just be "Visual Studio"

The contractor section (which makes up the majority of your experience timeline) feels like it's lacking some relevant information around things like what sort of projects were they?, what tech stacks did they use?, etc...

[frosty terrace]

i didnt do any tech stuff there besides manage their social media, rest was just estimates, going to job sites, and doing the work, hiring, training, ect

actually, it's not evne their, more like my job partnership with a relative

Should I put Visual Studio Code there?

[lapis wind]

Possibly, one other thing to note, Pycharm should be PyCharm to be a little nitpicky

[native narwhal]

Which career path that uses Python as a part of the toolset is easiest to find a job in? Would that be data analytics or quality assurance with Python?
What are your thoughts?

[peak halo]

is easiest to find a job in?
I would think web development, but it's not guaranteed that a given web dev team will have python in their tech stack.

[delicate bane]

thats frustrating. sorry to hear that bud. some scams are targeted towards job seekers

in cybersecurity, i believe it's called "spear phishing"

[gritty rivet]

What's "easiest" for you will probably depend on countless factors. If you're interested in those two fields, apply for jobs and see what happens

[remote merlin]

Hello
I want to build robots when I grow up
I am doing a CS major, I do not want to do a BS in Electronic Engineering at same time
Because of doing CS and EE is pretty vigorous
What can I do as my Masters so I can get get my dream job of building and programming robots

[graceful mason]

what do you think of when you say build robots? There are quite a few different jobs involved in building one
the most robot-focused degrees (designing and building from start to finish) are robotics and mechatronics

[remote merlin]

Like IoT

[summer roost]

How are robots related to IoT? Those are two very different categories in my mind...

the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that falls firmly into both categories is robot vacuum cleaners...

[graceful mason]

Robot vacuum cleaners don't really fit into IoT.... but robotics in general doesn't
AFAIK IoT is about having multiple computers which all have sensors (and optionally actuators) connected in a network (not necessarily the internet) communicating with each other to automate something
It's entirely possible to have a robotic setup that fits that definition (e.g. where I work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE), but it doesn't really fit what IoT intends to define

[remote merlin]

I meant IoT

I did not know robots were not IoT

[summer roost]

if you're interested in IoT, Computer Science is probably not the best degree. It's not my area of expertise, but I think Computer Engineering would be much closer

[remote merlin]

I cannot do IoT with CS major

[summer roost]

I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying that I expect companies hiring for IoT positions would prefer people with CE degrees over CS degrees.

CS degrees focus more on algorithms and computation, and my impression is that IoT focuses more on the lower level electronics and less on software.

[smoky quest]

why not?

[smoky quest]

software is eating everything. They are even bringing kubernetes to IoT sites

[fossil wasp]

hey everyone i am going to do cse in btech i am confused about what subject should i start with digital logic and computer design or discrete maths
any advice would be helpful thanks

[graceful mason]

IoT is just embedded software engineering with a sprinkle of data science and networking. You absolutely can become an embedded engineer with a CS/SE degree but something like EE/CE is ideal

[summer roost]

Am I wrong about this, @smoky quest?

[smoky quest]

I would nuance it by saying either CS or CE would work out. Just different flavors

I have also seen things like pairing domain experts (ex: someone expert in farming who knows the best growing conditions) with someone having a CS degree and a rpi

Also as a data point, I was about launch a startup in the IoT space while having a CS degree (well, technically a masters, but the BS was in industrial computing). But while doing customer interviews and discovery, the field is pretty wide open

[fallen spoke]

I need someone's help, I have a internship interview this weekend, the problem is i need to do a whiteboard system design challenge during the interview but idk what that is or how to do it. Can someone send me a yt vid link or give me some documents to read about it or something?

[fossil wasp]

do you have idea of what they teach first discrete maths or digital logic in cs bachelors degree?

[smoky quest]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CMF2CQF/ is a great book. I am surprised they would ask that for an internship though

[smoky quest]

What do you mean specifically about "discrete math" and "digital logic"?

[fossil wasp]

i dont think i can be more specific sorry

[smoky quest]

That's unfortunate because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_mathematics#Topics_in_discrete_mathematics references a pretty broad set of topics

[safe plinth]

Am i gonna be fine with the m2 macbook air for my uni for programming or do i have to go for the 14 inch macbook m1 pro?

[near ocean]

This is the second time you post irrelevant links to this career channel

[vapid jay]

It will be enough for uni.

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> 👆 rule about adds is broken

[karmic merlin]

!pban 722413608297824347 14d our server isn't an adboard. don't use it as such

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @shut night until <t:1659514879:f> (13 days and 23 hours).

[safe plinth]

These macbooks are very expensive and out of my budget so also looking to keep it for years . Am i gonna be fine?

[buoyant seal]

Unpopular opinion: Macbooks aren't needed unless u wish to become macOS desktop app developer or IOS mobile developer.

[safe plinth]

Well i dont know shit about laptops so could u recommend me an alternative?

[buoyant seal]

What is your desired programming specialization in the future / field

Anyway, Lenovo is really Linux friendly, plus windows is installed easily too. No problem for both options in terms of drivers

[safe plinth]

I just got accepted in uni so i dont know exactly but i like ai/data analysis and programming from the subjects and i wanna work in one of these areas

[buoyant seal]

Ergh. I hear it is common to use MacBook in this case for some reason. Though they are often used where it is not needed.

I recommend Linux oriented laptop for ai/data analysis. Lenovo with Linux. Linux should be best option to run python/ machine learning, relevant ecosystem. It will make your work compatible immediately to run in cloud. All usually ai and data analysis stuff is launched in Linux cloud servers / docker

[safe plinth]

Ohhh okay yeah that seems like the better choice

[buoyant seal]

And several times cheaper for same performance. U can replace your book twice or thrice for a price within MacBook. Which would keep your laptop always shiny new in hardware terms (no wear tear)

[safe plinth]

So something like an ideapad?

[buoyant seal]

Yeah.

[buoyant seal]

But actually. Machine learning requires videocard to speed it up. It can be trained without it too, just slower

That is a really drawback of it. More hardware demanding

Initially u a highly likely would be satisfied without videocard though. U a just starting uni anyway

[buoyant seal]

So... If u a truly going to try machine learning within this laptop, better to go for Legion series I think

It would double/triple price of laptop regretfully

U could try machine learning without videocard as a student though. May be it is overkill

Then u could get really cheap laptop for just 500 dollars. They have powerful enough inbuilt GPU(integrated into CPU) for student level needs

If u want to have powerful overkill for everything, then go for Lenovo Legion (due to powerful enough videocard of 3000+ series)(fast for everything)

Otherwise go for Ideapad (it would be enough for all programming tasks and slow work in ML)(potentially slow for too overloaded beyond student level computer graphics work)

[safe plinth]

Damn dude thanks a lot u really helped

[dense mesa]

@safe plinth do you plan on training models on the laptop?

A refurbished ThinkPad would be good if you're able to train models online, otherwise you may need something with a separate GPU. Have heard M1 macbooks are good

[safe plinth]

I seriously dont know what i wanna do later on i just got accepted in uni so im looking for an all arounder thats why i thought macbook air m2

I also heard that m1 and m2 have seperate cores for ml and ai tasks idk if thats true tho

[dense mesa]

If you have no idea what you're doing that's fair enough, but we can't give targeted advice as it's hard to find an all rounder laptop. I get what you're saying though

https://machinelearning.apple.com/updates/ml-compute-training-on-mac

@safe plinth your university will most likely have computer labs where you can train models, and it may have some kind of capabilities for training models online. If you can find this out, then getting an IdeaPad/refurbed ThinkPad would be fine, as you won't have to do any training on the laptop itself

[safe plinth]

I totally agree, i was looking to buy something good that can last me through uni and my first job years thats why i went for an expensive choice

Also the fanless design on the macbook air is making me anxious cause we havent seen the long term results but i may be wrong

[buoyant seal]

There is just a small drawback to having videocard. More heating/ cooling/weight / several times more expensive.

That is why we recommend ideapad, unless u really want better thing that can train ML a magnitude faster (+optionally high level games to run xD, and high intensive computer graphics programs... Unity stuff? Game Dev basically).
Ideapad is cheap enough to not hurt money budget to get another one after uni, if u would feel a need to replace it later

[buoyant seal]

I heard videocards became cheap though. Crypto was f falling recently. May be a good time to buy video carded laptop.
Market was overflooded with videocards

[balmy mural]

You can always use google collab to train models online. It's comparible to lower end gpus and has some other limitations, but if you're just starting out, google collab will be fine.

[vapid jay]

Check out dave2d's review of the macbook air

[vapid jay]

You don't have to buy the latest and greatest, but macbooks are generally a very solid choice for must use cases even the intel ones

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> 👆 job adds aren't allowed

[analog sun]

!rule 9 6 please follow these, I will be removing your message @opal token

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vast shoal]

This channel is for discussing career issues and the world of work, not laptop specs. Please ask your question in #data-science-and-ml. I will remove your message, @gusty hill.

[near ocean]

ask in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[sturdy spoke]

someone can drop the discord server in PM.

[peak halo]

sorry, what?

[safe plinth]

I wanna buy the m2 cause its the latest model and i wanna keep the laptop that im gonna buy through uni and keep it as much as i can

Thats why i worry about it being fanless

[vast shoal]

Let's take the hardware purchasing discussion to off-topic, shall we?

This channel is for career-related discussions

[prime citrus]

How old do you have to be to get an online part time job?

[graceful mason]

where do you live?

[prime citrus]

Kuwait

[vast shoal]

Most people online won't know Kuwaiti law

[vast shoal]

Additionally, some services that act as matchmakers for freelancers and clients may have age restrictions. I'm guessing 18 would be common.

This channel is for discussion of Python careers and the world of work, it'd be better to ask in #python-discussion.

[hollow fern]

ok

[graceful mason]

Looks like Kuwait has pretty strict laws - you can work between 15-18 part-time with a juvenile work permit, and at 18 can work normally. Keep in mind that when applying for online jobs you working hours need to match up with the company you work for, and that most companies will not want to employ someone under 18

[prime citrus]

okayy appreciate it, thank you!

[river dome]

Hi everyone 👋

So, I'm interested in making apps and programs with GUIs but I can't really decide on a GUI to use nor do I know what the best one is/the best for commercial purposes. I also want to know about what is available for none website developers using python aside from game development

[near ocean]

Computational Finance/Risk Management/Financial Engineering

ie something along these lines https://www.imperial.ac.uk/business-school/programmes/msc-risk-management/

the clearest way to get into a quant position

[delicate bane]

from a recent wsj article:

Local governments are offering people willing to move up to $12,000 in cash, along with subsidized gym memberships, free babysitting and office space.

basically targeted towards remote workers, it looks like

[chilly plume]

Yeah same here.

[river dome]

What country?

[tawdry grove]

Any of yall have experience landing part time remote data entry/analysis roles?

[peak halo]

what would your question be if someone did? because you're more likely to get an answer if you ask a question, rather than ask for a person.

[tawdry grove]

Fair. I'm just curious to hear about people's experiences. I suppose to go into more detail.. I'm looking at these roles and they ask for x years of "microsoft excel experience" whereas I've done plenty of CSV data analysis using python's pandas + scipy to read/write files. Further, my professional experience is that of an embedded software developer, but I have made many autonomous python scripts to aid our team, yet it is certainly "unrelated" to these roles. Should I keep the front that I can provide firms with software to webscrape/automate and validate + analyze the data they need? Or should I simply put on the mask of "yes, I will do manual entry work for 20 hours a week" so to keep that sorta salary agreement? Unsure about a few things

[smoky quest]

sounds like you are overqualified for the job?
If so, it means something won't go too well as either you won't have much to add onto your resume and experience and the pay won't match your skills (although you may get more free time 😉 )

[tawdry grove]

Haha, I appreciate the compliment. I still have much to learn - some require financial/accounting knowledge I still am not an expert in myself. And I am excited to learn these things! But yes, I am aware these roles individually will pay less. Your last point is my goal, however. If I can become proficient enough, I should be able to scrape enough of these gigs together to provide a "pseudo-passive" income

[smoky quest]

You cannot have more than one full time job

[tawdry grove]

Care to elaborate? Also, specifically I was searching for part time jobs (for now)

[smoky quest]

full time job means it takes full time. So you can't fit more into it as the expectations are such.
Your contract would spell it out and that would also be unethical and ground for being fired on the spot. So it's safer and easier and less stressful to just find a better job.

With regards to part time jobs, it depends if they pay you for the result (ex: I want that file, don't care how), or per hours (I want X hours of your time)

[tawdry grove]

As a current full time worker, I certainly am not devoting an entire full time's worth of work/effort into my job.. but I still get accolades. The idea of being a slave to time is outdated

Regardless, I am willing to discuss these details with any potential employer in this new path I'm looking at. Although I have the feeling they will underpay unless giving me the expected salary X time compensation. For which I will negotiate - pay me the money and you'll see the steady results

[smoky quest]

• your last internship sounds cool but you aren't saying anything beyond "I did some stuff with X, Y". Having some context and what you actually did would go a long way
• Your two other internships could be trimmed as to save space for your projects since they aren't really relevant
• Your projects suffer from the same problem than your internship that they don't describe what you did

[smoky quest]

Then it won't be a problem letting your current employer know about these new gigs

[tawdry grove]

I certainly have more to lose with my current employer, so I will not follow this advice lol. Why does my current employer need to know anything outside of the results I am providing them?

Do you disagree that I am supplying the results demanded by my employer, thus fulfilling what the market needs? Isn't that enough to provide a job well done?

[near ocean]

there's this thing called a contract which you signed and should review before trying to hide a part time job from your employer

[smoky quest]

It does point towards multiple points:

• If you signed for your full time attention, you should provide it. The fact your coworkers have low expectations has no relationship to that. It just points to the fact you are underused.
• That is just unethical and would get you fired on the spot, with all the implications that come with it. So it's better to have expectations set so that there are no surprised and you don't get fired
• That type of behavior is what will lead exactly to the opposite of what you want. That's how employers will use more intrusive technologies to track employees and push them harder because they aren't trustworthy

[tawdry grove]

I'm not sure why there's so much passive aggression in here, but thank you for the advice?

[smoky quest]

We don't help with unethical or illegal actions

[hasty pumice]

hi

[tawdry grove]

Alrighty, because employees aren't getting boned by excessive administration and shareholder profits? Because we are expected to provide time instead of results, at a rate that is not surpassing the rise of inflation?

[hasty pumice]

anyone django developer?

[near ocean]

you agreed to a contract, you cant possibly suggest you have the ethical high ground by trying to breach an agreement

[smoky quest]

then don't sign contracts with bad employers

[tawdry grove]

None of you have read my contractual obligations, so you know not whether it is illegal or unethical. I provide more than enough for my team who looks to me for the lead development of its software foundation.

[near ocean]

Again, it doesnt matter what you think you provide, but what you agreed to

[tawdry grove]

Yes a piece of paper determines ethics

Legislatures in my country spend less than a week reading laws that span hundreds of pages and sign them into the books

Spare me the ethical discussion

[smoky quest]

if it's fair for you to make excuses to disregard promises you made in your contract, it should be also fair for the company to do the same to you. And for people to cheat/steal from you as long as they think it's fair to them

[near ocean]

a binding agreement that will probably hold up in court better than you think, anyway whats the question even about, all we can offer is advice, if you dont like it dont listen to it lol

[smoky quest]

In any case, that's pretty much the end of the discussion.

[spiral swift]

Advice on the best way to prepare for a coding interview - Algorithm and Data Structure

[smoky quest]

Hi!
It's better to ask your question directly than looking for people

[vast shoal]

I mean, you came here asking for career advice, and what recursive and mariosis is talking about is relevant career advice that applies to the vast majority of people. Besides, people are free to express whatever career-related opinions they want in this kind of forum, as long as the conversation remains civil.

[smoky quest]

• Practice: do some leetcode
• Review the fundamentals. Check out https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Algorithms-fourth-Thomas-Cormen/dp/026204630X/ for instance

Sure. The rule of thumbs are:

• Avoid confusion or misrepresenting a situation
• Think about how it would be interpreted

So in that context, it does make sense, but that wouldn't be a game changer either way

[tawdry grove]

Fair enough. I didn't come into the discussion hostile

[vast shoal]

I don't think anyone's been hostile so far.

[smoky quest]

Pointing out that someone is being unethical and cheating on their employer is not hostile.

[tawdry grove]

So what did you mean here by more free time 😉

I thought the whole point was making jobs more efficient. Not slaving away sitting in an office for 40 hours because some old white guys decided that's the new social contract

[near ocean]

why dont you try getting a more challenging job then? would definitely pay better as well

(also again, you yourself agreed to this 40hour office sitting arrangement)

[smoky quest]

Nothing new. It's what about what you signed. If you want to change the deal, then have a contract signed by both parties that reflects it. If you are worth it, they would sign.
Otherwise it sounds very much like excuses

[delicate bane]

united states. sorry if you were expecting a dif answer

[near ocean]

My current job has shit (in my opinion) working conditions, long hours, not enough WFH, long commute
I just applied and got a better one

[tawdry grove]

I am worth it because clearly I'm providing satisfactory results. My manager knows this. She's not the one that makes the agreements, but she does stick her neck out for me. Renegotiating a contract like that would not make sense to an employer - give the same pay but expect "less effective time". You know there is no bargaining power here. I have looked for other jobs, but the pay in my field is not like web development, I'm already pretty much at my median salary in my area

I have applied to other places sticking to my guns on the salary but they don't see it. It's a risk hiring somebody, and the marketplace isn't "results driven" it's clock in clock out, don't fuck up

[smoky quest]

Again, these are just excuses to cheat and do less than you agreed upon just for your greed.
If you are worth it, people would pay. And if you don't feel confident they would sign, then it's only you thinking you are worth it.

[smoky quest]

I can assure you it's result driven. Companies are willing to pay up for great engineers

[tawdry grove]

Lol you can't reply with that and say "I'm not being hostile". Regardless, I will stop my end of the conversation here. We're just littering this channel at this point

[crystal berry]

what field is this?

[tawdry grove]

Embedded software development

[smoky quest]

I am not hostile but I also won't spare your feelings.

[crystal berry]

hmm that's tricky, I assume not a lot of remote work in that area? May have to move to a better region to get a better salary.

[tawdry grove]

I've seen remote work. I am fully remote. But yeah mostly it doesn't seem that way

[frosty terrace]

When looking for a job on linkedin, should I be searching within my own state and then remote? Previously I put United States and I think that's how I got scam job posts

[smoky quest]

I just do a bunch of different requests.
But it comes down to doing some research on the companies as scams can still come up regardless of the geography. (although, the most generic and global ones could be more common as lower effort and higher reach)

[frosty terrace]

I'm assuming most of these jobs will require me to go to the office at some point, so shouldn't I look for places I'm willing to travel to?

[crystal berry]

not necessarily. A lot of jobs are fully remote now because people don't want to move

[delicate bane]

congrats mariosis

[crystal berry]

anyway I hope you don't get discouraged by trying to find a job with good pay. it's definitely out there. you have to apply to lots of jobs and just see what happens. make sure to drill the interview

I left a fairly good position last year to take time off. Applied to various jobs over the last few months. Just signed an offer that roughly doubled my previous compensation

[tawdry grove]

I had an interesting job lined up, they wanted an 8 hour interview session (which apparently isn't insane according to other engineers). Spent the full day interviewing, talking to new people, and at the end discussed with an HR lady who's face I couldn't even see and she seemed less than happy with my salary requirement. Waste a full day of PTO for that, left a bad taste in my mouth. But I'll have to go again surely. I just don't see a large enough salary increase to justify leaving a WFH job

[frosty terrace]

should I avoid applying through recruiters ?

[near ocean]

8h interview oof, I would ask to be compensated tbh, that's insane and a red flag

[crystal berry]

Agreed, very onerous interview processes are a red flag.

A typical full-day interview loop should be like 5 interviews, 1 hour each.

I usually ask to split that over 2 days if possible

[tawdry grove]

I essentially asked for a 33% increase, I'd be leaving fully remote for it. But as I said, I'm already pretty much at the median salary, early in my career. HR people see a couple years experience and think nah not worth it. Not everything is black and white

[crystal berry]

Well, it's just one company. Anyway if you're early in career and want to grow, I think you need to find a team you like and start leveling up your skills and getting those promos to the higher bands

[near ocean]

a good recruiter will make the whole experience feel like a breeze, but those are hard to find

[hearty island]

the one who contacted me for an internship yesterday was an intern

[crystal berry]

If you're early in career, I feel like going around asking for salary increases may not be the best strategy. In my experience it's better to find a team you match well with that can help you grow into the higher bands. Once your resume is full of accomplishments and you have a fancy title then you can go back out and command a high salary

Sounds like you need a few promos

[tawdry grove]

I appreciate the input. From viewing my peers, I have pretty much outperformed them all who are "on the same level" as myself. That's not to say I am the best engineer in my team, there are other engineers I hold in high regard. But those are assuredly well compensated and I agree they should be, as they are at that "veteran" level

[crystal berry]

If you're performing at the SDE2/Senior/whatever level and you're not getting promoted, and your manager won't give you a path to the promo, sounds like you need another team/manager

But the focus in that case should be growth potential, not immediate salary IMO. What job will give you the opportunity for promotion

[fallen spoke]

thank you

[smoky quest]

The jobs should mention anything about remote or not. That's also something to clarify during the initial steps of the interview to be safe

[frosty terrace]

you mena there is jobs out there where you never go to the office, ever?

[smoky quest]

One thing to look into could also be to go into the next level. If you are already operating beyond your current level, then it would be logical to move up the ladder and increase your scope/responsibility/impact

[smoky quest]

There are plenty. My past few teams were fully remote

[frosty terrace]

even for juniors?

[smoky quest]

slightly less numbers but yes. Mostly due to the training/mentorship constraints

[tawdry grove]

harder for juniors, they really expect you to not be productive for the first X months after beginning your professional career

As in, most companies expect hiring juniors to be a net loss for a bit

[abstract current]

anyone here work as a sdet?

[frosty terrace]

so as a junior should i look for hybrid/on-site jobs?

[smoky quest]

That's an implementation details.
There are great jobs regardless of the onsite/hybrid/remote

[frosty terrace]

is there not a lot hiring for juniors because of the economy?

[crystal berry]

I think hiring has slowed down a bit but there are jobs out there

[hearty kindle]

im a freshman in college majoring in CS and I'm going to a career fair looking for an internship. what types of things can i put on my resume that would make me an appealing candidate? I can't take CS classes yet bc I need to finish my prerequisites otherwise I'd put that. I've been self taught for 5-6 years but I don't really have any projects to show for it

the job fair is about a month from now. is it plausible to finish a project in that time so I can have something to show?

[dense agate]

Yes you can complete projects to show your skills in a month

[whole wasp]

Recruiter just reached out to me to sign the NDA and other papers and I’m working here for 3 months now. I still don’t know if I should sign it since I don’t know what it says in there as it’s legal doc where u have to pay their attorney fees etc. They sent me the stuff a month into starting my job so idk why they sent it to me so late and not before I started working. Do I just quit over this?

[vast shoal]

I don't know what else they sent you, but signing an NDA is standard.

[whole wasp]

They have another doc where it says have to pay their attorney fees etc and also stuff when I leave I can’t do for 2 years etc

[vast shoal]

I mean, the safest would be to ask a lawyer to look at it, I guess.

[vapid jay]

Would someone be willing to rate my anonymized resume?

[buoyant seal]

we do it here all the time

[vapid jay]

k 1 sec

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[vapid jay]

thoughts, comments, concerns?

[near remnant]

I just took a look at this tutorial: https://youtu.be/rfscVS0vtbw

The guy teaches how to create variables for an hour 💀

I just went through fast by the sections cus i was interested, fortunately nothing was unknown or new to me 💀

I just don't know how to prepare before my internship starts but yeah. Maybe just chill idk

Advice?

[true harness]

should be one page. you can probably decrease the margin size, remove your associates, and use a horizontal list for skills. you should have a dedicated projects section

[true harness]

ask your employer?

[near remnant]

Yeah I did everything, even made a fullstack web app with the company's stack

[vapid jay]

Is the resume good enough to land an entry level job?

[vapid jay]

And thank you for the suggestions, I will implement them

[true harness]

wdym "good enough", you mean the content in the resume? or the formatting or whatever

[vapid jay]

yeah the content

[true harness]

probably, although you should actually check to see if you meet the requirements of each job

[vapid jay]

Yeah I should

[exotic nova]

hi guys just looking into coding as a potential career as ive done a few small projects and enjoyed it a lot. is there decent careers out there for just python as the coding jobs ive looked at recently require a lot more things that i havent heard of or understand, like react etc

[smoky quest]

Welcome aboard!
So is there a question or a problem?

[pastel thunder]

hi, i have a lot of exp in talking to professors over email but tomorrow i will be having an interview(sort of informal chatting type), how informal should i be, when i think of what i will say to him, it feels like i am reading an email.
what should i avoid saying

[exotic nova]

oh sorry if i wasnt very clear. my problem is i dont really understand the career market, so im not sure if being proficient in python is enough to get a job or if I would need to learn all these other coding languages

[smoky quest]

np.
The requirements depend on the role. The market is very broad and thus could mean you need to learn different things depending on what interests you. Something for sure is jobs will require more than just writing some python code.
You could look at https://roadmap.sh/ as example, but be mindful it's a pretty exhaustive list

[smoky quest]

Talk to them in a professional manner. That doesn't mean overly formal but that doesn't mean like with your buddies either

[smoky quest]

Also, if you are in high school or earlier, do aim for a CS degree. That will make your career and life so much better.

[exotic nova]

sadly i found coding quite late and im looking for a new path at 23

[vapid jay]

@smoky quest are there a lot of python jobs available?

I really wanna land a job at one but scared to do so

[smoky quest]

there are a lot of jobs that do use python

[smoky quest]

that's still pretty young 😉

[gritty rivet]

Lol I got serious about coding in my 40s, so you're never too late

[smoky quest]

It's not uncommon for someone like you to have a first degree, discover they hate it and then get a BS in CS and graduate by 25-26. Sure they are a bit later than others but it doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things

And sure, when you are 25, having a 3-4 years experience difference sounds like a lot. But 15 years later, it won't look that big

[gritty rivet]

@exotic nova I agree with recursive_error's point, but would add that getting a BS in CS is not indispensable. You'll have more opportunities if you do, but can still potentially do quite well even if that's not feasible for you.

[gritty rivet]

Python is the only language I'm really fluent in. I'd say that's enough to break in the field if you have a broad base of other technical skills, like knowing your way around on a Linux command line for example. I don't use SQL or JavaScript every day but it helps that I can mess around with them.

I think the main thing if you're trying to go self-taught is to look at lots of job listings and understand what cluster of skills you need to work on to find the entry-level niche for yourself

[lapis wind]

definitely agree, having a decent portfolio can often be the equivalent or more than the degree

how I broke into the industry 😎

[smoky quest]

Not trying to be a party pooper but I also want to chime in that breaking in the industry does not mean you will get the same outcome or career path. Having just a set of good projects won't lead the same outcome