#career-advice

1 messages · Page 433 of 1

vapid jay
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ah yeah i would have to polish everything and make sure they are each fully "job level work" i guess

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i cant really think of anything that would be a good project for a job, i feel like most things i think of are too basic

smoky quest
vapid jay
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something like ebay / amazon? or not quite

near ocean
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The way in is doing internships

smoky quest
crimson ginkgo
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hello

carmine mortar
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To any question. 😛

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We're going to be hiring a bunch next year (fintech startup) and I want to get more into providing training -- that roadmap.sh looks really helpful for both purposes. Particularly knowing what to ask for developers in a language I'm not familiar with.

jade siren
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who here works at one of the FacebookAmazonNetflixGoogle companies?

near ocean
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just ask your question, why do you want to single out faang employees

carmine mortar
near ocean
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putting people on the spot isnt how you get answers to your questions

vapid jay
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hi

obsidian acorn
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@jade siren do you have a questions regarding those companies?

mystic pawn
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Does anybody work in hellofresh?

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Or is there anybody from berlin?

deft wharf
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Any good reccomendations for someone.looking to go into either A.I. or data analysis ?

buoyant seal
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@deft wharf

dense mesa
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Got an assessment centre for a grad scheme product manager role, any advice

shadow moss
boreal copper
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Hi, guys. I want to know Python because most of the jobs in Economics need knowledge of Python and other programming languages. What I need to know to become good in Python for Economics?

prisma raptor
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Quick question as someone with a background in industrial automation with that experience plus having a foundation in python be seen as desirable?

red blaze
red blaze
gritty rivet
red blaze
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Thats good advice cause those courses don't go too deep with the programming but hand you useful tools

prisma raptor
jaunty belfry
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Hi, I need help with wording a description of testing a program in a resume, how would you go about in describing it

vapid jay
ocean ledge
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were you hired as a software tester? or QA engineer?

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or was your job writing integration tests for a large codebase?

jaunty belfry
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more like an intern for a stem project, I tested a spectrogram plotting Python program and brought up issues and improvements so that it could be accessible to people who have little to no experience in coding

ocean ledge
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sounds good-- write that

spare pollen
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Yo, does being good in hackerrank help you somehow??

weary stone
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for technical interviews it does

gritty rivet
vapid jay
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I have a technical interview for a company in California. Huge opportunity for me.

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How do I prepare?

merry pond
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no swearing? 😮

smoky quest
summer roost
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I wouldn't say swearing is necessarily a deal breaker, but you don't want to look immature

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if there's one comment in someone's codebase that says "I have no idea why the fuck this works", it wouldn't necessarily bother a reviewer. If there's one comment in someone's codebase that says "Fuck the guy who designed this library", I'd be less inclined to look past it.

smoky quest
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risk*

summer roost
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all I can think to say is that there might be some advantage of having code that looks "lived in", that reflects some of the problem solving process that led to the way the code looks today, rather than having something fit for a museum

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but it's definitely true that not all reviewers are the same, and I can't imagine any reviewers who would see a lack of swears as a problem, but there certainly are some reviewers who view any swearing as a problem, so swears in the code base do objectively lower your chances

smoky quest
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no different than other practices like dress codes. Sure, you may be fine with under-dressing for interviews, especially nowadays. But there is no benefit to not overdress. If anything, it's better to over do something than under do it.

dense mesa
summer roost
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I definitely think you can overdress - showing up to an SWE interview at a startup in a suit might label you a poor culture fit

smoky quest
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it depends on the country, area, etc.

summer roost
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though I do agree the risks to underdressing are higher

dense mesa
summer roost
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oh, I'm just adding a bit of nuance. @smoky quest and I broadly agree on almost every topic that comes up here 🙂

smoky quest
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yeah, we are mostly nitpicking at this point

dense mesa
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If I get this Junior Product Manager grad scheme I'm gonna go full on SWE and try to become a TPM

summer roost
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Trusted Platform Module?

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ah, "Technical Program Manager", I think

smoky quest
dense mesa
smoky quest
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👍 good choice, it's more fun than project

dense mesa
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Broke: project management
Woke: product management

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Although I would prefer to transition to TPM eventually

smoky quest
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TPM is typically for Project though?

dense mesa
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Technical Product Manager, a PM who is more on the technical side

smoky quest
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got it. Thanks!
Although, most of the PMs I have interacted with were on the technical side. So probably that without the official title

dense mesa
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In 'Cracking the PM Interview' they talk about how the technical responsibilities of PMs can vary a lot between companies. Some will get involved a lot, some just do stories and roadmaps without any programming

smoky quest
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I have never seen a PM doing programming. Some used to be dev, but not doing both at the same time

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and yeah, it can vary a lot depending on the background of the pm and the team (ex: top-down VS self organizing)

dense mesa
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The PMs I've spoken to for career advice say they will write code if it's necessary to do so (not often at all) but usually are focused on user and vision

smoky quest
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and testing the shit out of the product/feature

summer roost
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I'd expect that they don't write any code that makes it into the product

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they might write pseudocode to explain some algorithm, or they might script something to help them test a new feature or something

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good PMs are generally technical enough that they can understand developers' explanations of the complexity of some proposed feature, but not technical enough that they could step into the developers' shoes.

dense mesa
summer roost
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how do you mean?

dense mesa
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I can read code and understand it, but when it comes to writing something it takes me a lot longer. If I have documentation on a new language or technology I'm usually a lot quicker though

summer roost
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ah, fair enough. Sounds like the vision/big picture/strategy side of things might be a better fit then

smoky quest
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tbh, the product can also be quite tough. It's less clearly defined to figure out what to do rather than how to do it. At least with the how, you already have a target

dense mesa
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Although some product people are saying roadmaps aren't great any more

smoky quest
dense mesa
smoky quest
dense mesa
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Ah ok

deft wharf
forest nymph
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Comp should always be open to discussions

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people are weird about money because "theyre supposed to be"

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in reality anyone worth their salt doesnt care, and those around them dont care either, because they know what they are worth

lament crest
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Currently a college senior in search of internships/summer work. My two high level languages are Python/C#. I spent a to. of time looking for other internships and it seems like most are a Java stack. Anyone have resources?

humble kelp
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Should I mail my manager to thank him for the opportunity (it's my first job)? I still have almost month until I join.

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And also, should I ask him what tools should I educate myself in that would help in the work?

vapid jay
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Hello guys I need some help

smoky quest
smoky quest
humble kelp
vapid jay
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Hello on the Web it shows the average pay of a go dev is 111k but

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A friend said that u can't get a job with a single language only

smoky quest
vapid jay
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I am only 17

smoky quest
# vapid jay Well I can't apply

the point is not for you to apply. The point is for you to see what actual jobs require in terms of skills from the applicants

vapid jay
vapid jay
smoky quest
smoky quest
# vapid jay Well where can I find them

but to answer your original question, software engineering jobs do encompass more than a single language. It's a set of skills.
I also do recommend you to aim for a degree in university/college as it will make your career so much easier and better

humble kelp
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@smoky quest Hey if you have time, could you proof read my email? It's not long. I can DM you if that's okay?

smoky quest
grizzled horizon
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does anyone know which course I have to choose, if I want to study programming in robotics of space and technology?

simple zealot
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Please,Can anyone suggest python projects for my resume for fresher?

sharp verge
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there is a problem with my code and I cant seem to fix it is this the place to ask for help?

near ocean
gritty rivet
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!projects

inner wrenBOT
#

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

gritty rivet
red silo
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i will be the next elon musk

simple zealot
dense mesa
prisma glade
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how do I learn how to interact with website api

near ocean
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you could ask in the appropriate channel, this is for careers discussion

near ocean
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its never too long or too early to ask, whenever you have a question you cant solve yourself you ask someone
if youre not sure who to ask, ask your direct supervisor for who the appropriate person to ask is

arctic basin
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is data science a good career to pursue? I want to use Python, can you suggest good alternatives to data science?

vast shoal
# near ocean its never too long or too early to ask, whenever you have a question you cant so...

@dense plinth That being said, as a general rule, it's a good idea to give things an honest try before you ask, partially so you better understand the problem and what to ask about, and partially so the other person feels like you're making an effort and not just having them solve all your problems for you. Not saying you should waste time banging your head against the wall, just that you don't just drop everything and go ask every time you hit the least bit of resistance.

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Yeah, uh, 2 weeks is too long.

near ocean
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i would either go ask immediately or try and write the documentation myself

vast shoal
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Internal documentation is often bad or entirely absent in my experience, and figuring out how internal systems and tools work is often a combination of parsing partial documentation, experimentation and talking to colleagues.

near ocean
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is it part of your job description to work on the internal tools?

vast shoal
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Are you working remotely?

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Do you not have a general channel you can post your question in?

near ocean
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if youre just a user (not a dev) then you should be hounding them to either fix them up or make some time every day (or less often) to give you rundowns for features in the tools
dont feel bad about "being annoying", youre just trying to do your job and other people not doing their job is inhibiting you

vast shoal
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At the very least, I would mention at every daily standup if I'm stuck and ask if someone can help get me unstuck.

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I'd never wait more than a day.

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I'd probably try to get ahold of someone earlier than that if possible.

near ocean
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youre worried about looking stupid but the only way thats going to happen is when they ask you what you've been up to and you have nothing to say

vast shoal
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It's your responsibility to highlight issues you're experiencing. You're wasting more company resources by banging your head against the wall alone for two weeks than by taking up a few minutes at the standup.

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It's when you've done nothing for two weeks and never mentioned it to anyone that you are really going to look dumb.

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If I was you I would ask someone to book a 1-1 meeting with me at the standup and have them thoroughly explain everything I needed to know.

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That way you only take up a few moments at the standup and you only occupy one senior for a 30 minutes or an hour or something later.

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That's not a lot.

near ocean
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are you new to the role?

vast shoal
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As a senior, I often have 1-1 meetings with newer team members to explain stuff like this that's not properly documented.

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This is the perfect time to ask dumb questions, because nobody expects you to know anything yet.

near ocean
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lol, bruh
theres literally no expectation on you to understand things this early
in fact the opposite is true, youre expected to not know shit and ask questions

vast shoal
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Though I'd argue that it should always be fine to ask questions, you get much less done if you're nervous about having to be omniscient.

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Absolutely

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I mean, it doesn't really matter much how you phrase it as long as you get your point across.

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Unless you have a super toxic work environment, it's going to be totally fine.

near ocean
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you dont have to apologise, if you feel like you should you could say you've been stressed about doing this on your own but the brief isnt helpful and theres no documentation

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i wouldnt try and blame the docs too much, comes off weird imho

vast shoal
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I'm an experienced dev but I'm far from 100% productive for the first few months after joining a new team.

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Everyone knows that's how it works.

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Every project has a lot of project-specific knowledge that you just can't bring with you.

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Asking questions is a way to reduce the time it takes until you can start being productive.

near ocean
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i would also start by improving the docs, thats what i did and it got me up to speed on the things i was meant to work on quicker than i or they expected

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i would personally do this via email, not a group chat thats going to get scrolled out of view instantly

vast shoal
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That's the same for us, there's like 5 threads per day-ish.

vapid jay
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hey im a pro in scratch

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a acker, i will ack all world, with m block et scratch

inner wrenBOT
vapid jay
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How would one find Django internships as a high schooler? Most internship oppurtunities I see are for college students, but I'd like the experience before going into college. Currently a sophomore in high school, hoping to do an internship either pre-junior year or pre-senior year. I'll most likely be quite experienced with Django by pre-junior year, I've been learning for about 2 weeks now

rotund crest
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I don't think you'll be able to get an internship in anything but I am always hesitant to speak in absolutes. At least here, a high schooler is too young to even get a job without severe restrictions on hours worked etc. It is too much of a liability and it is easier to filter out people who have at least seen enough success to be admitted into college.

smoky quest
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so you are asking if it's a great idea building a business around doing things going around ToS and most likely based on illegal activities which put your clients at great risk?

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also sounds very much like an ad or something

plain echo
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You can just upvote or not. And kindly let me know "illegal activities" is for what? @smoky quest

smoky quest
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In concept, it's no different than the online scams where you get delivered some "packages" for someone else to pick up. It's because if anything bad happen or someone get caught, everything will point to you and you will be the one in trouble 🙂

plain echo
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I understand but I thought it not serious since the working platform is only one of thousands companies. 💩

smoky quest
plain echo
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It's just my idea...

smoky quest
smoky quest
ivory sluice
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@plain echo what exactly are you asking here?

analog sun
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Also if the guy can do that well and has the skills, why would they not make their own account and just keep all of the money paid through that service?

smoky quest
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If you have to lend your identity to a stranger on the internet, it's a scam and most likely illegal

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not illegal per se, but most likely involve illegal activities*

ivory sluice
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@plain echo i've gone ahead and deleted your message considering it's highly suspect. i can give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you are very uninformed, or at worst you are attempting to scam our members. either way please don't bring this topic up again.

vapid jay
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What's the main career in python?

weary stone
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There're a few, but probably it is Backend dev or data analyst/scientist

gritty rivet
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If you use Python as a gateway to learn CS concepts you can pretty much get in to any kind of software engineering. Very few people build a career on Python as their only significant technical skill. But yeah, what ex said are the biggest areas where Python is used most heavily.

mighty canopy
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Hi

austere ivy
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Hi how to install path python ?

dense mesa
prisma hill
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if i'm looking to be a software engineer in the future, is it worthwhile to learn how to use tkinter? i just dove into it the other day as i find GUI's to be very practical, but if it's not something that will benefit that career path then i'd rather use my time on something else

smoky quest
sweet gorge
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Is Python getting more popular in embedded hardware now?

smoky quest
dense mesa
sweet gorge
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Alright, seeing that MicroPython and CircuitPython are getting more popular, I was wondering if Python would start to become more popular in the professional market.

dense mesa
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Professionally I have seen a lot of MATLAB and Simulink being used as it's more optimised for compiling to C

dense mesa
sweet gorge
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IoT, robotics, mobile devices. ICs like the SP7021, STM32MP, i.MX6 that run Linux or MCUs like the RP2040.

dense mesa
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Then yeah python should be fine for that

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Anything mission critical is likely still going to use something more optimised

humble kelp
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I've gotten an internship at FAANG after which if everything goes right, I'll get full time offer, but the company is very indecisive about small decisions so I am thinking of leaving and joining some other company. Should I?

(They were indecisive about the mode of internship. They changed it like 4 times between on-site and virtual)

ivory sluice
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that might just be the nature of the pandemic, no?

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is it going to change your plans very much whether it's remote or not?

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ie, do you have to move?

humble kelp
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Yes. Like halfway across my country

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I even paid a small amount to reserve a place to stay but now since it became online, I lost that money.

ivory sluice
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do you have friends in similar boats? perhaps they're all waffling on this and it's not just your company. would be a shame to pass up on an opportunity when the problem isn't unique to just them

ivory sluice
humble kelp
humble kelp
ivory sluice
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in my state east coast we just announced new mask mandates under certain conditions, covid might still be throwing wrenches into things

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sounds like then you have to move there regardless?

humble kelp
humble kelp
ivory sluice
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wait what country are you in

humble kelp
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It's not even minimum wage (I'll work as a Data Engineer)

ivory sluice
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that's very normal, to pay a different rate in different countries

humble kelp
ivory sluice
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it's not minimum wage for even your country?

humble kelp
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American minimum wage sorry for the confusion heh

ivory sluice
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btw all my previous "advice" is retracted, i've no idea the context or norm given your location

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yeah ofc they'd not pay you american wages, hopefully you know now that's pretty much a given lol

humble kelp
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Yeah lolol but I'm just worried that since they are so indecisive about things, I might not even get full time offer

ivory sluice
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unless that's in writing (and i don't see why it would be), no a full time offer wouldn't be guaranteed

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that'd be a risk for any employer. what if you're a flop?

humble kelp
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Hm yeah true. My friend's companies gave them full time offers. Ig it's different for each company. Welp. Thanks for the help and listening to me. Happy holidays

ivory sluice
thorny gull
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Can anyone recommend any good, free online coding bootcamps if they exist? I'm interested in using Python mostly for graphics and pure mathematics, and need a structured education, and I'm more interested in the experience than the certification

graceful mason
inner wrenBOT
#
Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

thorny gull
carmine mortar
scarlet juniper
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Anyone from the US or Canada went to computer science universities without high school chemistry?

deft cliff
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I'm not sure what you mean by a computer science university, but none of the computer scientists I know took more than one chemistry class

buoyant seal
inland folio
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Where do I start learning python, I got the basics finished. I have even created some simple games, like guess a number and a small quiz game. I am confused on what to learn/do next and where do I go

buoyant seal
deft cliff
inner wrenBOT
#

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

crimson verge
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is learning Datastructures and algorithms along with python enough to get a job in a good product based company in india ?

scarlet juniper
dense mesa
scarlet juniper
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chemistry is such a pain, i am taking A levels for physics, math, ICT

buoyant seal
scarlet juniper
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i dont even know how to get good marks for it my highest was 64%

buoyant seal
scarlet juniper
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alr will do that and thanks 😄

near ocean
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No, also this is the careers related channel
A better channel to ask would be #python-discussion

dusky scaffold
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guys I have question for you, Me as a newbie programmer working on improving my coding skills. Everyday solving problem. But I when I solve, I couldn't implement it. So how should I improve problem solving skills?

dense mesa
shadow moss
dense mesa
rotund crest
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I could not imagine a single place in the world that would require chemistry as an entrance requirement

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Maybe Japan?

compact cedar
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Hey any online courses that you guys can recommend for learning data science? I already have knowledge of python and statistics.

compact cedar
dense mesa
rotund crest
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I find it interesting that it would be chemistry since it doesn't seem especially efficient resource wise to run experiments on a budget. But I suppose our chemistry department here is just teaching undergrads using youtube videos this semester so...

scarlet juniper
shadow moss
shadow moss
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Most US high school require chemistry to graduate

true harness
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and colleges in the US will probably require you to take a lab science like chem, unless you can get credits for it thru AP

near ocean
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You mean, a degree?

ivory sluice
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you don't get degrees in python

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the kind of thing you're describing is common, but whether it's "accepted" is highly dependent on who is asking. employers? likely won't care too much. other things are much more important

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your degree, the gpa, internship experience, etc.

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of your school?

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i'd be much more interested in what you've built with python, not your score on a quiz made by someone

near ocean
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Pretty much any degree nowadays has python as part of the curriculum and to me it fit 100% what youre describing

Other than that i wouldnt really bother with anything else, like linkedin certs or whatever is out there

ivory sluice
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that's not me saying it's fine to skip a degree dogekek

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if you have the opportunity, get a degree

near ocean
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How old are you if you dont mind me asking?

ivory sluice
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let us know how it goes, truly. we get tons of users questioning whether they need degrees and we pretty much universally advise that they get one

near ocean
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Because they open doors you cant open by yourself

ivory sluice
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if you already have a professional career, you can likely make a lateral move more easily. what do you currently do?

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if you have a counter-experience you're welcome to share it tomorrow. we'd like to hear how you got your foot in the door, so to speak.

near ocean
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I'd be interested in hearing your life story then
Are you a professional? Which field are you in? How did you get into the field? Whats your title?

smoky quest
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that's very presumptuous though.
I would also contend the 0.01% wouldn't need to ask questions in this channel.

Note also there is a very large distinction between having a job and having a successful career

sage ermine
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{\displaystyle {\begin{aligned}n&\to p+e^{-}+{\overline {\nu }}{e}\\mu ^{-}&\to e^{-}+{\overline {\nu }}{e}+\nu {\mu }.\end{aligned}}}
\begin{align}
n & \to p+e^-+\overline\nu_e \
\mu^- & \to e^-+\overline\nu_e+\nu\mu.
\end{align}

smoky quest
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also not really related to AI/ML

thorny gull
rotund crest
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What do you want Python for in Pure Math?

vapid jay
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I want to learn python but im not eager to (I doubt that made sense)

dense mesa
digital fjord
rotund crest
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I meant what is Doggo planning on using it for. Most Pure Mathematicians I know do not really use Python that often.

digital fjord
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oh, I was missing a lot of context

rotund crest
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No that was my fault as soon as I realized it was phrased like I was asking a question - but slowmode

dense mesa
rotund crest
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It is the second sentence of the same message re:bootcamp

spring horizon
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Hello, I would like to have some career advice
Now I'm a frontend developer using js

How can I improve my salary the most efficient and fast way?
Thx

vapid jay
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I have urgent question

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These guys said they could use discord.py to view my terminated account

ocean ledge
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though i do agree that doing anything with the mathieu groups are a pain in the ass

ocean ledge
sage ermine
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you learn some shit everyday

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I know that I know nothing

rare field
ocean ledge
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it's literally beta decay-- it's on the wikipedia page for effective field theory

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i am just confused how a question starting with "looking for the mensa of python quals" (whatever the hell that means) ends up with copy pasting something from a wiki page

smoky quest
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and AI*

ivory sluice
thorny gull
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Which is also fine in my case

dense mesa
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You mentioned experience and not wanting certification, which to me seemed like wanting to get work out of it. There's plenty of free online courses for python, but they're not bootcamps in the "learn to program in 6 months and get a job" way

true harness
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MIT OCW is probably one of the best online resources out there. my friend, an mit student, says they're basically the same as the classes they take. the only thing you're missing is the networking (which admittedly is a pretty big thing)

thorny gull
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I'm mostly trying to implement Python effectively in my own projects, and I'm not looking for a CS career

vapid jay
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What’s the best way for me to learn python

smoky quest
vapid jay
#

Ty

graceful mason
inner wrenBOT
#
Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

gritty rivet
#

What exactly are those tiny percentages included with salaries on sites like Y Combinator and Angel List? I think it's "equity" but I'm not finding a clear explanation of what those numbers actually mean

buoyant seal
summer roost
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It'll either be stock or stock options. Stock is fractional ownership of the company, so that you're paid out if the company is ever sold. Options are the right to purchase stock at a fixed price, ideally a discount over the amount you could sell it for

ocean ledge
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equity is monopoly money and you should not consider it compensation unless the company is pretty close to acquisition or IPOing

smoky quest
sage ermine
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@ocean ledge

smoky quest
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as a rule of thumb, unless you are in the founding team, a faang and sometimes public company will be more profitable. But it's hard to beat in terms of experience and fun

thin obsidian
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can anyone suggest me any institute for full java training course in online mode?

vapid jay
valid yacht
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Hey does anyone know a good high school cs internship

gritty rivet
woeful spruce
#

anyone here learn AWS Lambda (or any AWS) for their job. I am feeling overwhelmed with what I will have to inevitably learn.

vapid jay
ocean ledge
#

thats probably your best bet

ocean ledge
nimble hornet
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if i want to choose computer science for a level for what other option should i choose with it except for maths

ocean ledge
#

why not math

dense mesa
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You don't need CS A Level to study it at uni, and if anything most unis would prefer for you to take FM over CS

boreal remnant
dense mesa
boreal remnant
#

there was are even CS oriented maths courses that you have to take (at least in my school) which start you from the basics of how to prove a mathematical statement systemically and build up to runtime analysis and efficiency among other things

nimble hornet
#

obv im gonna choose maths for a level

ocean ledge
#

good man

dense mesa
#

So you get all of the knowledge without having to waste time on the NEA

nimble hornet
#

nice

nimble hornet
dense mesa
nimble hornet
#

i really like economics tho

#

so what about maths,economics and cs

dense mesa
#

Personally I would highly recommend taking physics if you're already doing maths and CS, but if you enjoy econ more that's still a solid combination

#

Keep in mind if you're applying to the top unis (Oxbridge, ICL and UCL) they would prefer physics and/or FM

nimble hornet
#

especially Oxford

dense mesa
#

For CS, the best Oxbridge combo is Maths, FM, Physics (a lot of colleges explicitly say this). If your school doesn't offer FM, they don't mind something in place of it. If you're trying to get into Oxbridge without FM it's harder

nimble hornet
#

oh okay

dense mesa
#

They have a lot of maths theory in their courses

nimble hornet
#

yh

#

well anyway thanks for the advice

dense mesa
#

Nw, try your best to get onto FM (even if it's just for AS)

nimble hornet
#

kool

dense mesa
#

They really like Physics, a lot of UK unis will prefer it to A Level CS as well

woeful spruce
ocean ledge
#

you can debug lambdas locally... but generally building your own docker images is best

#

though yes, it is more pricey-- but not so much that an employer would be against it?

smoky quest
gritty rivet
smoky quest
dense mesa
smoky quest
#

But the .2% could mean something very different at a seed company from round b company

#

Overall, that would end up giving you the option to buy up to .2% of the company at the current price

#

So if the company value goes up, so do the values of your equity. But if the company goes down, then so does the value of the equity and so does the money you put it in to buy these options

#

Depending on your role and seniority, it can go very low from .05% to quite a few percentages, except for founders which keep the lion share and the investors

#

But typically, they would have at least have a 1x on it, which would mean that in the event the company gets sold, they recuperate their investment first, and then the rest gets divided according to the %

#

That can be very problematic if the company has raised tons of money. Recently, I know someone at a very popular startup who got sold for hundred of millions of dollars, except they did raise roughly the same amount. So all the investors got their money back and then there was nothing to divide among the employees and got nothing.
On the other hand, if the company has raised a reasonable amount and gets super popular, then there is a lot of headroom for the value to be divided among employees

#

But keep in mind also that this money is typically locked for like 10 years, which is roughly the time to ipo for a large portions of the companies. Which is to compare with working at a faang with RSU you can cash in multiple times a year and then compound with interests

#

So the earlier you get in, the larger the equity you get, the more dilution you can withstand, but that's also a larger bet than a pre-ipo company

gritty rivet
#

So if I were to join a company that's raised a few million in venture capital and is still looking for more, that's still favorable? But all this is is a chance to make an investment and won't translate to income until if and when they have an IPO?

smoky quest
#

Your contract will typically have a 4 years vesting period with a 1 year cliff. So you have to stay there at least a year to get a quarter of your equity and then up to 4 years to get all of it.
The view of favorable depends on a lot of factors. If you are just about the money, then go to faang; much less risk and tons of money. Startups can also be a great way to learn and grow and move up since they are short on people and eager to delegate things as the company grow, which can make it up for the monetary risk.

#

So favorable depends a lot on what you are looking for and the risk profile of the company and your career trajectory

#

Having worked at both startups and large companies, I have had the most fun and rewarding experience at startups. But the large companies do provide a more "lifestyle" way and higher level of compensation

smoky quest
# gritty rivet So if I were to join a company that's raised a few million in venture capital an...

also one thing to be aware of is taxes.
Obviously, that depends on the specifics of the country and state, but you will end up being taxed twice:

  • When you buy the options, the stock has hopefully increased. So there is a tax to pay for the difference
  • When you sell the acquired stock, then there are gains and taxes to be paid on that

Not necessarily a bad thing since it does mean you have some gains to be taxed on, but to be aware of as it may have an impact

olive hazel
#

if i can jump in just briefly, if they're raising small amounts of VC it could be a loooong time before they go public. If they do that well, their board would probably prefer to fund them with their own money and take the full reward. If they offer you UARs (stock options for non-public companies, later SARs), TAKE THEM!! I got some at my last job and didn't think anything of it because it was money I can't spend. Company went public in September, just cashed them in for half of what my salary was.

smoky quest
#

yeah sorry, I didn't mean to write a book

gritty rivet
#

If nothing else you've all helped me understand that this is a complex topic I should try to learn a bit more about. Hadn't heard of Holloway but I see they have a whole book on Equity Compensation

ocean ledge
#

i will say, startups are fun

#

if you work for a decently well funded one with a cool greenfield project, your life will be awesome for at least a couple of years

smoky quest
ocean ledge
#

and the pay isn't usually that bad-- my offers from startups are around the same as from large tech companies

smoky quest
#

but there are also tons free resources online too. I just don't have them handy at the moment

smoky quest
ocean ledge
#

only difference is equity = real money or monopoly money

ocean ledge
#

at my old startup junior positions started at around 140 cash, then whatever number of stock options

smoky quest
ocean ledge
#

tbf, large tech companies don't really reward in their salary

#

it's all about those RSUs baby

gritty rivet
#

The place I'm furthest along interviewing at is listing base salary at $50-$65k for this position which is just enough for me to consider taking it. It does seem low for the industry but I'd be thrilled just to finally make it into an engineering role

smoky quest
gritty rivet
#

Very small (less than 20) but it sounds like they're hiring a bunch

gritty rivet
smoky quest
shrewd torrent
#

is it hard to get a job with cs degree

#

the competition is so fierce

smoky quest
shrewd torrent
#

everyone so talented while im just chilling

gritty rivet
smoky quest
smoky quest
shrewd torrent
#

lmao ok👀

gritty rivet
smoky quest
# shrewd torrent lmao ok👀

not chilling will lead to your classmates having better projects and better understanding of the materials, thus doing better and find jobs before you

shrewd torrent
#

yea i c ur point

gritty rivet
shrewd torrent
#

nah im in hs rn and im thinking to do a cs minor (math as major)

smoky quest
ocean ledge
noble oriole
#

Hi guys, question about how to start building experience as a software engineer.
There are many tutorials online but I thought about going another path.

Wouldn’t it be better if I focus on contributing to open source projects, practicing and pushing small batches of code and studying and practicing algorithms for interviews?

#

I feel like the project's route is a somewhat generic

#

And receuiters will know that I didn't developed the code and maybe I copied pasted the code without fully understand of the requirements

#

I'm very close to finishing a couple of courses in free code academy

gritty rivet
noble oriole
#

But how can I find issues on GitHub for beginners? Almost all open source is for advanced software developers

smoky quest
noble oriole
#

I’ll looking for almost “unit testing” contributions 😂

gritty rivet
smoky quest
#

some communities are also pretty welcoming, such as most projects at the Apache Software Foundation

noble oriole
#

Thank you! This is great info! 🙏🏻

proven hazel
vague lion
#

Anyone from Accenture Pune Working as Data Scientist ?

ocean ledge
#

is there anything specific about being a data scientist you want to know about?

spark zinc
#

Question: how do u stop worrying about career prospects

serene kindle
spark zinc
#

What if u happen to be in the wrong program hmm

serene kindle
serene kindle
serene kindle
#

probably super helpful to just join some programming related program though

spark zinc
# serene kindle what program?

In ECE but I’ve always wanted to do math, I’m only here for software eng job prospects but idk soft eng seems so dull man but it’s the only thing that gets u a job nowadays

serene kindle
serene kindle
#

it has a heavy overlap of skills unless it is overly practical

#

or at least neural networks

#

honestly seems better for you to just focus straight away on machine learning/neural networks since it is very 'ECE/math' heavy

smoky quest
serene kindle
serene kindle
ocean ledge
#

that's what i did, and it opened up a lot of doors for me

coarse tendon
#

does anyone like contractor jobs?

young shuttle
#

How are you guys and gals finding candidates for Python devs? We're not finding them and end up with recruiters passing us CVs for people who know other web tech and are willing to learn python.

elder beacon
young shuttle
#

where are you based?

elder beacon
#

South Korea

young shuttle
#

we do sponsor visas; but we are EU based not US if that's what you had in mind. Will send DM

elder beacon
#

holy moly thanks

young shuttle
#

gamsa!

carmine mortar
#

Being present in places like this where there's lots of devs kicking about definitely helps -- the more people in this space that you know the more likely you'll know someone (or someone you know will know someone) looking for a job.

young shuttle
#

cool i didnt know about peopleperhour. i think we strongly prefer permies though.

carmine mortar
#

It can be a good place to find people to try -- give them a small job as a contractor, if they're any good offer them full time.

slim acorn
gritty rivet
young shuttle
carmine mortar
young shuttle
#

im glad it's not me doing it

carmine mortar
#

looks at my email inbox to see a bunch of PHP (haven't touched it in almost a decade) and Windows technical support (haven't willingly done that since I was 15) jobs from recruitment agents that I've already told to stop sending me nonsense.

carmine mortar
ruby flame
#

hey guys ....i am scared frost new in python ......requared a lil bit info about python ..... should i prefer online paid coarse or yt is enough??

near ocean
#

!resources You should look into these resources

inner wrenBOT
#
Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

ruby flame
#

thank you😊

buoyant seal
young shuttle
#

@ruby flame always be coding. That's the best way to learn.

nova musk
#

I CAN WRITE "HELLO WORLD"

brittle star
#

Hello

silent bay
#

Guys since discord.py is dead does that mean you can not make bots in discord with python now?

ivory sluice
weary ledge
#

I have been working in Python for 4 years. I have dived in a bit of everything but now I usually use python for automation, webscraping, ETL and data viz. my code has switched from top to bottom script to where I am utilizing classes, inheritance, and decorators and so I feel as though I am an intermediate Python user. I was wondering 2 things.
Is there a book for advanced users that goes more in depth and has challenges for you to complete?
Is there an accepted Python certification to get?
The reason for the certification is not so I can just slap it on my resume but more so to ensure that I fill in any gaps on my understanding.

dusk latch
#

İs Python4 not founded

spark zinc
#

like im realllly interested in control theory but getting a job writing software for control algorithms that ISNT just tuning a PID controller is 💀 really really hard where im from (canada)

dense mesa
#

Jokes aside if you did a personal project where you implemented some control algorithms, I'm sure that would at least get your foot in the door for an internship

spare pollen
#

yo, been doing python for some time now and considering doing freelancing and maybe create some courses on patreon, just wondering if any of you guys do freelancing or know any requirments/skills needed to succeed with python freelancing online?

violet cape
gritty rivet
weary ledge
#

Upwork is a good one. But If you are starting out than word of mouth work or ensuring your services are super cheap will be required so you can gain credibility on Upwork.

#

Once you have the reviews and credibility you can start charging normal prices.

weary ledge
# violet cape Yes, there are tons of books for advanced users (I own one even though I'm begin...

Thanks for your comment. There are actually Python certifications out there. Because it open source there is not really a central spot to get the certification. Here is an example of one place that has a Python certification. https://pythoninstitute.org/certification/pcap-certification-associate/ . Now with that being said I wonder if anyone who is a Senior Python developer has ever reviewed a certification and say that it is very comprehensive enough to be credible.

Python Institute
Python Institute
PCAP Certification (Associate)
gritty rivet
#

I've not once seen a job listing that mentions a Python cert as desirable. This is not the case with non-dev IT roles where certs are actually valuable

#

Even when dev roles do mention certs, it's usually AWS or Azure in my experience

smoky quest
brittle thorn
#

Remember when it was MCSD these certs do get phased ouy

#

Had a friend who was certified Novell Network Engineer i dont know where he is now or what he is doing

#

Mid career can be hard with investments in previous certs and trainings becoming useless

trim geyser
#

So anyone here work for Amazon

summer roost
#

Almost certainly

brittle thorn
#

Start a company if you are brave and have some idea plus funding... you only live once

#

Just be careful of who you partner with many bad actors out there

#

Plan for mid career transitions if you can expect some of your trainings to become obsolete lol i had training and certs for VB.net and FoxPro 3.0 moved away from those

ivory sluice
#

foxpro 👀

brittle thorn
#

I migrated VAX cobol data to foxpro for Y2K

summer roost
#

Heh, hopefully you can retire by 2k38

brittle thorn
#

The VAX people never transitioned to new tech

#

I have IBM 360 punch cards in my house from the same UnI with the MicroVax

#

I bet the IBM people might have failed to transition to MicroVAX but that was before my time

#

I do C# and Python mainly now ans SQL

summer roost
brittle thorn
#

I can migrate their data lol

#

Yeah im backend did frontend but too many javascript frameworks lol

summer roost
#

I'm backend as well, UIs hold no interest for me

#

And I despise JS 🙂

brittle thorn
#

1000 percent agree

#

Why we are all in a Python forum lol

dense mesa
brittle thorn
#

How was it... is Bezos evil lol

dense mesa
#

My internship was in Operation so I was in an actual fulfilment centre rather than the comfy offices. FCs are dangerous, disorganised and just bad places to be at

#

Since I was at a non-robotics site, I got to see how the workers are really treated

brittle thorn
#

Imao he is lex luthor

#

With a d**k shaped rocket going to space while his minions suffer

#

Workers should unionize in amazon but i had experienced union busting myself in another company i previously worked for . .. promotion and raise but must leave the union

#

And that employer not as evil as amazon

#

Oh yeah i had to sign off a deed of assignment too giving up authorship of code done for the company so they have some of that too

trim geyser
dense mesa
brittle thorn
#

You hopefully left amazon for a better employer i left that company i mentioned

#

They probably churn through interns to keep costs low

#

Everyday low cost labor

#

Not worth the stress of working for a place you find disagreeable

#

You can end up with health issues later in life like me lol

fringe pine
#

!unsilence

inner wrenBOT
#

✅ unsilenced current channel.

slim acorn
brittle thorn
#

The best employer i had so far was Danish ... they aren't hypercapitalist like the americans and treat employees well

#

They have high taxes thou lol

#

We had friday night beer parties

#

Free dinner too

#

Ate so many meatballs lol

#

Scandanavia FTW

#

Lasted until Eurozone crisis lol

dense mesa
#

@brittle thorn what's been your favourite job/employer so far?

brittle thorn
#

Above senior C# SQL dev for Danish company and as a freelance Data Conversion specialist for Library Databases so two jobs one full time one freelance

#

Also was a high school teacher and a Laboratory Tech at a University Research lab

#

Try different things outside coding if you can

#

Young people should explore and not be pressured by parents to take the high paying option if you like another option for work life balance or meaningful contribution to society

#

Its your life and your destiny grab it for yourself not for others

#

Also tried my own startups twice and failed due to nasty biz partners but no regrets i kept my integrity and learned...Dont fear failure

#

Hope this makes sense lol

glossy ravine
#

If you are someone who likes programming, coding, making websites and stuff like that. Do you study Computer Science or Computer Information Systems

summer roost
#

ooh, nice! Congrats

slim acorn
#

👍

spark zinc
vapid jay
#

i wan to become a cyber-security engineer
just like my sister
she's my ideal
i love her more than my parents. ...😘😘😘😘😘😘😍😍

brittle thorn
#

Lol black hat hackers on santa C naughty list

#

Santa C red hat hacker lol

#

Consider SANS training

#

Or just ask you sister previous option is expensive

twilit spire
#

hey guys could any of you recommend a advanced level python course for me please

gilded rune
#

can a 14 year old indian kid get an internship

brittle thorn
#

Child labor ... not sure maybe if a summer coding camp exist where it doee not tske priority over school..lol unsure about child labor laws there

upbeat willow
#

will you guys watch launching the James Webb telescope?

brittle thorn
#

Space pervs peeking into the secrets of the cosmos oh yeah

#

Lol might be off topic unless you want to be an Astronomy major

#

Attended a talk thou of an phyics major that used python to help find exoplanets

#

So its in topic lol

true harness
#

lots of data science work in astro

quick light
#

Who know Tkinter in python ?

brittle thorn
#

Dont cry you aren't alone many are unemployed due to COVID

#

It will pass ... i have experience in being of work too due to a pituitary tumor (now gone)

#

Network and keep talking to others

#

I have suffered from depression too

#

Be happy you have no medical issues and ie a part of this community

#

Count your blessings and try out Data Scirnce or web stuff

#

I had times when i was too depressed to do anything but sleep all day...that passed too

#

Select your niche in the ecosysystem and work on it be it web, data science or sysad etc

#

Take care of yourself and talk to someone

#

Do projects to develop your skills

#

Oh yeah if family members are pressurimg you to get a job and dont seem to appreviate the effort .. ignore them or explain if thst doesnt work then its on them they are simply afraid ...its your life to live not theirs

#

Try to understand they are afraid so they dont see your side

spice musk
#

What country are you looking for a job in?

brittle thorn
#

Take a break from the job hunt if you are tired... think long term

#

Focud on skill development

#

If you are rejected ask why

#

Take it as feedback dont take it personally

#

Good luck

#

Remember not to look desperate and project confidence .. hard if you are tired angry and depressed.. do tske a break enjoy life and feel better first ... job later when you have invested more in yourself

vagrant stag
#

where main chat

gritty rivet
#

Have you had any feedback on your resume? If you're not even getting a single interview, that's where I would focus

gritty rivet
#

Do you have any ideas about how to improve your projects? Do you have any education / bootcamp experience or are you totally self-taught?

fickle flax
#

hello im looking into data science to work as ml engineer but would like to please ask will putting data science projects on resume also interest for front-end and backend positions?

#

Because ml projectt build will use react, flask and dockers basically full stack and cloud with ml models

#

iim undergrad student

wispy shell
wispy shell
#

But I think it's also front end

smoky quest
fickle flax
#

thx

dusky schooner
#

any job would work for me

#

just can't go to school or college

#

okay, I will not dropout

brittle thorn
#

Oh my so many depressed people during the holiday

brittle thorn
#

I think for many jobs in almost all countries a college degree is required even for entry level jobs... too many applicants so HR use college as a first level filter... i had a relative of mine who had to get college transcript just to sell insurance

#

She didnt finish her degree thou...attend any college even if you dont finish you might need that transcript even if you think you dont

#

As for myself i finished college and dropped out of a masters degree so i can place has masters units in resume lol

#

Aim high , i know times now are desperate but this wont last...

#

So if you aim high and yet fail to reach a goal you still tried and live with no regrets and probably be better off than if you didnt

smoky quest
#

and you will have learned something. Or discover that your fears weren't tangible and were just holding you back

olive hazel
#

except they call them "the golden handcuffs"

smoky quest
#

but their stock do go up, so...

olive hazel
#

yeah all my friends there are on the "business" side, not tech, but I can tell you that of the 5 people i knew who went to work there, 4 forfeited their bonuses so they could leave in under 2 years.

smoky quest
#

yeah that's the point. Most of the stock would be granted in the last 1-2 years

#

and they know that

olive hazel
#

can't help but notice they didn't offer to gift it to me

#

some "friends"

smoky quest
#

what do you mean?

#

that is probably a bit too far off from this channel's topic

#

np

olive hazel
#

alright that was pretty funny

brittle thorn
smoky quest
brittle thorn
smoky quest
spare pollen
#

yo, anyone here making money through patreon?

queen needle
#

really

undone yacht
#

good luck

nova agate
#

python.

#

pfft

vapid jay
#

Hello

#

I want to be a work from home programmer

split helm
#

How to know if I'm ready to be employed

near ocean
#

Start applying, if you get a job you know youre ready

split helm
#

Could a not yet uni student be hired tho? pithink

modest hazel
#

Starting a business? What business could I do? As a highschool student

dense mesa
modest hazel
dense mesa
visual marsh
#

mozilla

solar pier
#

Where do i go if i know print if statements and random module

true harness
buoyant seal
#

Or here

516IR7g--5L._SX425_BO1204203200_.jpg
solar pier
jade siren
#

does anyone here work at a FAANG company bc i want to know what it is like

solar pier
jade siren
buoyant seal
jade siren
#

?

true harness
#

it's been a minute, chill

ivory sluice
#

users would also be very unlikely to share if they're currently working at one ime

vapid jay
#

best language to learn to start programming??

#

like a language that is mostly used in the economic world??

vapid jay
#

but javascript is like the most used (from what i have seen)

ocean ledge
#

depends on what you wanna do

#

why not learn a language based on the jobs you wanna do

#

if you wanna be a frontend monkey, javascript for days

terse wave
#

what do you think about i start developing game by python?

dense mesa
jade siren
#

@dense mesa

dense mesa
#

Not good

ocean ledge
dense mesa
ocean ledge
#

ml engineer

#

lots of downtime "model training"

dense mesa
summer roost
# jade siren like is it that hard or like is the salary worth it?

One of my college friends worked as a senior engineer at Amazon for about 2 years, and hated it. The pay wasn't bad, but he left for a higher paying job in finance. The culture was terrible. Though he worked on the team developing Alexa, and at one point you could ask her for facts about him as an Easter egg, so that was kinda cool.

#

And conversely, one of my friends left a financial tech company for Google, and seems to like it there from what I've gathered, though we haven't talked much since the pandemic

rose ibex
#

hey guys im a computer scientiest and should be graduated in the summer .I dont feel like software and programming is my passion but I do want to use my degree after college . My plan is aim for a part time job in software which isnt too difficult , cause i do feel i have a lot gaps in knowledge . I do also have a learning difficulty which makes me learn at a slower pace . So basically question is what is easiest jobs in software or IT ?

smoky quest
smoky quest
rose ibex
smoky quest
rose ibex
smoky quest
#

yeah, the job description. But also it comes with much lower pay, status and interesting job

rose ibex
smoky quest
smoky quest
rose ibex
#

i know but i have other goals and see software as part time thing

smoky quest
rose ibex
#

but theres surely part time jobs in software or IT ?

smoky quest
#

I am sure some long term part time jobs exist, but never seen any in decades

rose ibex
#

what about being a python tutor

smoky quest
rose ibex
#

yes i know but I would plan on having a part time job also

#

My biggest concern about full time software job is i will be signed on 1 or 2 year contract , i could end up hating job and finding it stresfull. My last software job , I felt completly useless and it wasnt fulfilling

smoky quest
#

it depends on your location, company, etc.
For instance, in the USA, it's common to have employment at will and not be locked for months/years

rose ibex
#

how long would your typical contract be ?

#

like in USA

smoky quest
#

as long as either party want. It's at will

rose ibex
#

what companies do that ?

smoky quest
#

that's by default

rose ibex
#

ok interesting , so you could work 2 months if you wanted

smoky quest
#

You could, but most companies wouldn't accept that

#

the hassle of finding someone and doing the paperwork and ramping them up is not worth 2 months

summer roost
#

I have heard of people who work 3 weeks out of every 5, or 8 months out of every 12. That's not common, but it does exist. I've never heard of anyone working 4 hours out of every 8, or 3 days out of every 5.

rose ibex
#

part time would be like 3 days a week , also what jobs roles would those be ?

summer roost
#

I (in the US) don't know anyone in IT who works 3 days a week.

#

I've heard of people working 4 days a week, though usually 10 hour days in that arrangement, so it's still 40 hours a week

smoky quest
#

depending on the job, you may also have some requirements about being on-call at certain times

summer roost
#

maybe you could find something in the events space, doing setup and teardown at venues for conferences or shows... that might be only 3 days a week, but they'd probably be friday/saturday/sunday, and it'd probably require travel

smoky quest
#

yeah, there aren't much incentives to hire someone part time in tech.

brittle thorn
# smoky quest yeah, there aren't much incentives to hire someone part time in tech.

Unless you find a niche that you can really call your own. Back in the days when modems was the way to connect to the internet i had a part time freelance Library Data Conversion biz ... only me.. any library data format to the MARC standard.. used my own hand coded scripts to clean and transform records and got paid by the record..that lasted on and off for 9 years

#

I was working then in a Uni when the Uni decided to buy a MARC compliant Library Package.. but we had existing library records in a Free Library Package called CDS Isis.. vendor couldnt offer a decent library data conversion solution so i did that for my uni and all where amazed.. then the vendor sent me Library data
W from their clients to convert to the MARC format...i worked so little time on it but earned a lot since i charged by the record count not by hours on the job

summer roost
brittle thorn
#

Lesson 1 : Luck favors the prepared ...i had long been facinated by data formats prior to getting that gig ... when we had windows 3.1 and 95 i made image loading code in Basic and Pascal.. and even an windows icon editor from with pascal that runs on DOS...i had practice in reinterpretiting bits and bytes and liked reverse engineering file formats

#

Lesson 2 charge by service rendered not by the hour

#

Lesson 3 do something that most people say cant be done

smoky quest
summer roost
#

If most people say something can't be done, it could mean that you see something they don't - but it could also mean that they're seeing something that you don't.

brittle thorn
smoky quest
brittle thorn
smoky quest
true harness
#

the average age of discord users is probably under 18. maybe even 16

summer roost
#

the userbase on this Discord skews very, very young. I think the median age of users on this server is probably between 16 and 17.

smoky quest
#

the most popular question I have seen is along the lines of "Can I get the same career and high paying job if I stop at high school?"

summer roost
#

that one is literally asked multiple times a day in here.

true harness
#

"yes you can but it's playing life on hard mode" tag?

smoky quest
#

so telling them to go against the grain could be interpreted at them screwing up their future because they can do it

summer roost
brittle thorn
smoky quest
brittle thorn
#

Kids stay in school please

summer roost
smoky quest
summer roost
#

and kids extrapolate from the few high-visibility success cases, not seeing all the people who tried that path and failed, because it is the harder path

brittle thorn
smoky quest
brittle thorn
#

If i wasnt employed in that uni and didnt attend that uni prior i wouldnt have gotten that opportunity

#

University opens doors kids

smoky quest
#

yeah, and got the opportunity to get close to that problem. Also had the initiative to do something about it

brittle thorn
#

With all your paws :3

summer roost
#

!warn 565926657693581312 Don't advertise your NFTs on this server. See rule 9, and rule 6.

inner wrenBOT
#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @safe crag.

ivory sluice
brittle thorn
smoky quest
brittle thorn
smoky quest
#

that's an interesting profile

brittle thorn
#

Also published a paper in a local Physics Journal that used python for visualizing vectors with a physics teacher that tested the effectiveness of that teaching aid...it was my project proposal.. uni approved it and i had fun and some cash to boot

#

Also presented that paper in two physics conferences in my country

#

Note im not a Physics major

#

Im not in their box like a dead alive cat

brittle thorn
#

I want you not to regret you life choices ...invest time wisely

#

It will pass by if you dont care about it too much and you would not have mattered much if you dont value it then you are dead

ivory sluice
#

..what?

brittle thorn
#

Lol if they are asking here if they can drop out of high school they are wasting their time

#

Code instead or do something else

#

Stop acting as if time is not valuable

ivory sluice
#

i'm questioning mostly the last majority of your last sentence

brittle thorn
#

Think about it everyone has a finite time here.. do something meaningful if you can before you die

#

And dont waste time asking if i should quit school lol in this forum it is better spent doing something productive

smoky quest
#

"School is a waste of time"

brittle thorn
#

When i was young we didnt have forums like this we had paper books to learn how to code

smoky quest
#

but at that time, you don't know what you don't know

ivory sluice
#

well there is merit to learning and collaborating online on places like this

brittle thorn
#

We had to type in code samples and debug it by hand not download it

true harness
#

yeah, uphill both ways to the mainframe terminal I'm sure

brittle thorn
#

They are lucky to be here

#

They should stop being so depressed and count the ways the opportunities are present here for their generation that wasnt available back then

true harness
#

very easy to say "stop being depressed"

summer roost
#

"stop being depressed" is just about the least helpful advice you could ever give to someone who is depressed.

dire oyster
#

experienced django dev is looking for a remote gig

summer roost
inner wrenBOT
#
Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

dire oyster
#

pl

summer roost
#

there are other communities for that; we don't allow it here.

dire oyster
#

which one

dense mesa
summer roost
dire oyster
#

thanks

summer roost
brittle thorn
ivory sluice
#

i'd say don't give unqualified advice about depression

smoky quest
# brittle thorn Point taken but sometimes helpful to get a slap in the face sometimes.... I mean...

When I mentor someone, I try to stay away from these blanket statements as well as staying away from trying to be they psy. Not every problem is due to mental wellness. Sometimes it's due to not knowing, mismatched expectations or some fear.
But what I try to do is:

  • Give advice based on my experience, such as when I did a big screw up.
  • Help them understand what is normal vs not normal in the industry. For instance, a lot of junior engineers get flustered when it takes 10s to a senior engineer to solve something they spent an entire day on without success.
  • Set expectations, which can go from ramping up (ex: it's normal to not know the entire code base in your first 2 weeks, and yes, you will be lost at the beginning) to career goals (career ladders, etc.)
  • Give tools to manage their professional lives, like growth mindset or communication or project management tips
    Plus a few other things I probably forgot to mention
brittle thorn
#

Ok noted.. hard thou to address all possible issues in a forum where you really dont know the demographics or life situation .. also they have to ask for something that the people here can address that is linked to abovementioned topics if possible but they may not have the ability to ask those yet

#

A few here actually linked up for advice on private chat lol

smoky quest
dense mesa
brittle thorn
#

Many of ones that asked for advice on private chat tend to be depressed so that was my self selecting sample of this population... i can blame the environment for that probably the circumstances now arent normal

dense mesa
#

This is a career discussion channel so I'll try to keep it relevant: it's not our place, responsibility or job description as educators, mentors or otherwise professionals to offer this advice or try to do anything other than leave it to experts

#

For people who are vulnerable, well meaning words and advice can have really negative effects

brittle thorn
#

I dont want to be their psych either and point taken

dense mesa
#

Would be cool to have a pedagogy channel

true harness
#

hopefully that'd be focused on how to teach, not how to handle students' personal things

summer roost
#

we've discussed having a pedagogy channel - that one might happen...

dense mesa
smoky quest
dense mesa
#

And young people typically don't join engineering teams

smoky quest
summer roost
#

I think you agree with each other, and are talking around each other

#

for mental health related stuff, leave it to the professionals, and try to get them involved in the case of a minor, if possible.

#

for mentoring related stuff, focus on setting expectations and making it clear that everyone struggles.

smoky quest
#

yeah, that was in my first sentence. A mentor/manager is not a psy. They don't address these topics or issues

summer roost
#

yeah, I'm fairly certain everyone is in agreement 🙂

dense mesa
brittle thorn
true harness
dense mesa
#

You can't have a generation of scientists, programmers, plumbers, electricians and so on if they're not being taught properly

smoky quest
dense mesa
brittle thorn
#

Call it something thou that will attract them to the channel some might not get what it is lol .. i had no formal teacher training but did teach

smoky quest
dense mesa
#

This is a community which helps people learn to code, beginner and expert alike, so being able to discuss and reason about the processes in place for this would be good. It doesn't fit as much in #community-meta though

smoky quest
#

teaching can also be very different from training

brittle thorn
#

Eg classroom versus on the job training

dense mesa
brittle thorn
#

Self directed learning

#

Many programmers were self taught prior to the proliferation of the computer science degrees on campuses. New tech means self directed learning becomes more important..it takes time to design and validate courses and lectures

#

Some will no doubt be stale once on the market then kids ask if they are relevant . A good question indeed

#

Some will simply rush to market poorly designed courses to take your money

#

Buyer beware

#

Life long learning is another buzzword for it

smoky quest
dense mesa
dense mesa
smoky quest
dense mesa
smoky quest
#

they are both related to learning, so there may or may not be some overlap depending on how it's scoped

smoky quest
ivory sluice
#

feel free to share thoughts on meta#164

flat anvilBOT
dense mesa
shy cove
#

how to paste code

dense mesa
shy cove
#

ok

brittle thorn
dense mesa
brittle thorn
#

Lol that was my uni experience

brittle thorn
dense mesa
#

Nah EngC for us

brittle thorn
#

In my time as an undergrad (1990s) lot of comp eng teachers in my uni was stuck with pascal when the world was using C.. It changed eventually but many never touched C until they had to use it.. I was part of an interschool computer programming contest and it was funny other Uni used C and most of my teamates are pascal gurus

#

So yeah its slow and if a uni is profitable and can ride on reputation they will

brittle thorn
#

Later on in the same Uni while i was taking my masters and a lab tech in the graduate school computer lab a few of those pascal holdouts had to learn gcc and vi

#

Lol it was funny and they complained a lot

buoyant seal
#

we were mainly teached in C++
but pascal, fortran (for some reason explicitely of 1974 edition) and prolog were still present.

#

I can say you for sure, fortran 1974 is a way to torture people, prolog too ;b

brittle thorn
#

I have seen fortran code lol

buoyant seal
#

at some year we were silently encouraged to switch to C#. That was the best decision to make. C# is so easy to use after C++
everything becomes intuitively easy

brittle thorn
#

Same in ours i gave a talk on C# in my uni

#

Since curriculum change was or probably still like a snail my Uni offered short courses on up to date topics in the guise of continuing education

#

But that is or was opt in after you are done with the stagnant curriculum .. it could have been baked into the BS degree

#

So you pay for an out of date education and you pay more to catch up lol

#

Not many did avail of the continuing education option most probably learned on the job

smoky quest
#

Especially as part of learning different type of languages and being exposed to different ways of thinking. It also addresses different classes of problems than the regular java/python/c#

brittle thorn
#

Fortran is still alive in some circles and some of that is in a package for modelling waves in oceans like Delft3D which i got to play with too.. they just wrap fortran code so C can use it

buoyant seal
#

and cobol is still in job demand ;b

brittle thorn
#

If the code is well tested why port unless there is reason to ...and nobody wants to

buoyant seal
#

increasing cost of maintenance. I wonder how much time ago the cost overlaped the cost of refactoring it

brittle thorn
#

Then in the end nobody can touch it lol

smoky quest
#

also more difficult to hire for fortran/cobol than java/python and cuda/opencl/etc

buoyant seal
#

there is possibility to waste a ton of time every time

#

and add in addition, that stuff can be changing(in 50 years changed for sure). perhaps market demended for them to adapat to some new features.... with having everything stuck in cobol... their business is stuck as well 😉

brittle thorn
#

There one less cobol based system

#

But it takes a crisis or a potential of one for things to move

buoyant seal
brittle thorn
#

Then change can accelerate that foxpro thing moved to VB and MSSQL then C# MSSQL and web interfaces

buoyant seal
#

anyway, there is always an option for the financial companies that use cobol just to die and being replaced in natural selection

brittle thorn
#

Ah remember too big to fail those banks get bailout

#

All that to avert a bigger crisis and things stay the same

brittle thorn
#

We have a crisis now however covid and all .. changes will accelerate

#

Having lived through Y2K lol that was nothing of a crisis compared to today

carmine mortar
# brittle thorn I was working then in a Uni when the Uni decided to buy a MARC compliant Library...

I've done some jobs just writing scripts to handle data conversion jobs. There's lots of people on freelancer sites looking for manual data conversion, merging spreadsheets, data entry or whatever. If you can convince them it's worth automating (or just charge per item like you say) and write a script to do it you can make a quick buck that way.

Integromat and Zapier are good things to know how to use in that respect, there's a lot of people who need two or more systems connected because they're manually entering data from one into the other (e-commerce into shipping system for example).

For anyone just getting started and wanting to go freelance, technotanuki is giving pretty good advice here.

smoky quest
#

internships as well

brittle thorn
#

You have to address or solve a problem they have

#

Also know yourself

#

I am bad at UI so I focused on back end , mathy stuff and data

#

Everybody is good and bad at one thing or another so if a job or role doesnt suit you try another

#

Find your niche in the ecosystem

knotty sonnet
#

Hi, im currently a data science student and i wanna build up my portfolio with personal projects. Yet i don't know exactly where to start , defining the subjects and getting the database etc.. anyone herr worked on their own projects would like to give me dome hints ?

twilit forum
#

Maybe start with some Kaggle challenge, they've usually been done do death, but the good part about that is that youll have plenty of solutions to consult.

unborn spear
#

Hi guys, I'm a devops engineer but I always tried to start to develop something, but only created scripts, I feel internally that I need to become a developer and a good one, but I always get stucked in some basic point, not sure if I'm stupid and because of that I can't continue, or if it's only because I'm lost and confused, probably it's my fault, but anyone had these kind of difficulty and if yes how did you overcome it? Appreciate your help

obsidian acorn
#

@unborn spear that happens a lot more often than you might think. A lot of people (including me) have a lot of projects that they start on that end up scraps. Not because the projects are not good. But because they are not completed. That particularly tend to happen when you try to do too many things at the same time, and none gets done. So, what I try to do, personally is decrease significantly how many things I am working on. Usually 3 or 4. Like school, work, and 1 or 2 project, and don’t start a new one until the one am on is at a satisfactory point. I also like to work with someone else interested in that project, as that creates accountability.

unborn spear
muted kraken
#

What is a Junior Datacentre Engineer role like in industry? I know it varies from companies to companies, locations to locations.. but what are the main duties, responsibilities and also what should they technically know in terms of networks/hardware/security etc ?

gritty rivet
noble wyvern
#

hello

muted kraken
inner wrenBOT
#
Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may break laws, breach terms of services, or are malicious or inappropriate.

ivory sluice
#

if i'm understanding you correctly that's wildly inappropriate to ask about or discuss on this server. do peruse our #rules and #code-of-conduct please. @left knot

ocean ledge
rancid walrus
#

Hello, I have a another question about tech. I'm starting to learn Python and Javascript through courses on CodeHS given to me via school. Is this a good idea? If not where would you start?

ivory sluice
#

>= $0
it's too broad of a question, really. do you have marketable skills?

#

they can earn very little, or they can make a living wage, or they can make a comfortable living, depending on how much business they're able to get, their cost of living, etc.

vapid jay
#

hey

vapid jay
#

i m in 9th could u help me with carrer

#

what should i do if i like computer

muted kraken
# ocean ledge uh, what did the job description say? 
The role
The [company] has two purpose-built datacentres and multiple smaller computer rooms spread across the sites and these house the server and storage infrastructure used to facilitate the [company's] IT systems. Your role will be to monitor, manage and maintain that infrastructure as well as deploy new server and storage infrastructure as required. You will also manage resources in the Microsoft cloud.

Skills & knowledge required
You will have a thorough understanding of server products (Microsoft Windows server, Linux / UNIX) as well as hypervisor technologies such as VMware. You will also have knowledge of the different storage architectures used by the [company] such as traditional SANs and hyper-converged. You must have a good understanding of monitoring and troubleshooting issues at the server, hypervisor and storage level as well as an appreciation of the role networking plays in connecting these different infrastructure components together. Finally, the candidate will be expected to have knowledge of managing cloud resources in Microsoft Azure and Office 365.
gritty rivet
rain walrus
#

in my early 20s - love computers - aspiring ml engineer | issues - not earning & living with abusive parents | need to move out badly | help easy part time work (freelance , run website, startup) | what to do

summer roost
#

do you have a degree in math or computer science?

#

@rain walrus

gritty rivet
# rain walrus in my early 20s - love computers - aspiring ml engineer | issues - not earning &...

Breaking in to a new career is extremely tough when you're living situation is unsafe or unstable. Settle for absolutely any work you need to save up a deposit and get out of there.

If you're good with computers in general, probably the easiest work to find is desktop support / help desk. The CompTIA A+ certificate can be a relatively easy way to break in to that field but not a strict requirement. It's common for people to do this kind of work for 6mo to a year or so whole prepping to pursue some more advanced and specialized IT field.

#

You can also check out platforms like UpWork and Fiverr but it's pretty tough to make a living on there without pretty advanced skills

summer roost
#

My impression is that ML in particular would be a very hard area to break into without a degree. If you want to do software development and can't stomach help desk/IT, web development is generally the easiest type of software dev to break into

eager valley
safe loom
#

It's been 2 months I've been on job offer websites and what's up with companies and data analysis? I keep seeing these but I'm not really interested in answering BI-related questions

#

Unless I can somehow use my data scientist background, I don't think I'm motivated enough by this job, even as a junior. Should I wait for the market to clear up a position?

smoky quest
safe loom
#

By that I mean wait for a DS/DE junior position (they're mostly recruiting experimented DS or leaders)

smoky quest
#

got it.
Hard to answer though. Any job ad with the keywords ml or AI in them still garner a lot more attention.

pastel quail
#

is it normal/advised to put your middle initial on a resume

smoky quest
pastel quail
#

ok

vapid jay
#

can someone

#

convert a py to exe,please i need beacuse i dont know how to

smoky quest
shadow bay
#

80% of employers that u would be pursuing , won’t put much stock in a diploma . the other 20% are the “companies”

keen wyvern
#

From my experience, it goes like this in general -
personality > experience > education .

However, this might differ in higher positions. depending on the requirements. But it mostly goes in that order.

shadow bay
#

I’ve seen this all over the U.S. — lots of small business types are pivoting to want someone “in-house” to make/maintain their e-commerce website , or their inventory management , etc.

#

that’s primarily the audience I target when I’m freelancing

#

the problem is , within that 80% broad majority , there’s a shit ton of competition — there is never a “lowest I can go” barrier in compensation , aside from biological imperatives lmao

#

there will always be someone from India , China , Nigeria , you name it , that can (and will) undercut you at every offer

#

if you don’t make the cut for — or intentionally avoid — that 20% of corporate business , you either commit to a ‘small’ business (bc steady & reasonable wages) , or you end up as the freelancer — with no guarantees , aside from what you’ve negotiated

#

imo , college degrees aren’t worth it for the majority of people . especially an associate’s or bachelor’s — unless you don’t have to take a loan , then u might as well take advantage . bc generally , those corner case (or lucky , privileged , <…>) people will end up in that 20%

strange scaffold
#

Hi all, I am looking for devs to help me create a crypto project, I have an idea for a decentralized ETF/fund of sorts, pm me if this interests you and if you would be willing to be a part of the team Cheers! (pay would be in token allocation or from presale funding)

smoky quest
#

without a degree, you are gonna have an extremely hard time, not even counting the additional benefits from the additional education

#

Also note that when you make a 6 digits salary out of the gate, the student loan won't be a blocker

shadow bay
#

that’s just usually not the case for the bottom 80%

smoky quest
#

the bottom can usually find easy jobs at large companies like hp or cisco

shadow bay
#

going to college on a loan , hoping for a 6 figure salary off the rip … it’s a pipe dream — unless you work your ass off

smoky quest
#

Given the number of hiring going on every year, it's hardly a pipe dream though. this is literally the normal path

shadow bay
#

well I wish I had taken “the normal path” then — if it’s just that easy , I must be a damn fool 🤦‍♂️

true harness
#

the average starting salary in the US is upwards of 100k, depending on area e.g. big metropolises it's much much higher

shadow bay
#

In the United States, the overall dropout rate for undergraduate college students is 40%. 30% of the dropout rate comes from college freshman dropping out before their sophomore year. In 4-year colleges, 56% of students drop out within 6 years. Black students had the highest college dropout rate at 54%.

smoky quest
true harness
#

🥴 inflation go brr 🥴

shadow bay
#

just those stats alone should be enough to warn someone away from getting a college loan

true harness
#

how so? wouldn't the stats make getting a loan more reasonable?

coarse tendon
#

is it alright in the first interview to ask what your salary will be?

smoky quest
coarse tendon
#

hmmm alright

shadow bay
#

“56% of students drop out within 6 years” ? ergo , they don’t reach their goals — and now all saddled up with compounding debts

smoky quest
shadow bay
#

also that $116k+ figure is largely influenced by the geographical outliers

smoky quest
#

(they would still get higher compensation in higher col areas)

shadow bay
#

the “bubble” cultures of Silicon Valley & other metropolitan areas surely have a significant influence on that ‘mean income’ figure , considering also , their wages must compete with housing markets , inflation , etc etc etc

ocean ledge
smoky quest
ivory sluice
#

even for swe

smoky quest
ivory sluice
#

ok i see there's a breakdown per # years experience if you scroll down

shadow bay
#

keep in mind , $100k in California is worth so much less than the same , in say , Louisiana

true harness
#

that's why the salaries there are higher

shadow bay
#

that’s exactly what I said

smoky quest
#

in CA you would get more than 100k 😉

ocean ledge
#

100k for a tech job in cali is a bad idea

shadow bay
#

the ‘’mean income” figure doesn’t reflect the geographical bias & competing stressors on one’s finances

ivory sluice
#

average across the US for less than 1 year experience at $109k is more believable, even with the huge CA salaries

smoky quest
#

covid has unblocked a lot of resistance to remote and there has been a lot more competition for hiring

shadow bay
#

average across employees with that title ? or across new hires to the position ? or … ?

ivory sluice
#

scroll thru the link that recursive posted, it has those breakdowns

smoky quest
true harness
shadow bay
#

that’s pretty much exactly what I expected the spread to be geographically tbh

smoky quest
true harness
#

ohhh, the chart doesn't do by years of experience, it's just all devs i c i c

smoky quest
#

something to be careful too is whether or not the numbers include stock

shadow bay
#

I still wouldn’t trust Indeed — a company whose mission is to sell you on the prospect of a new job — to reliably report figures in their own contexts

smoky quest
#

indeed doesn't seem to do that as well since it only talks about the base

smoky quest
shadow bay
smoky quest
ivory sluice
#

oh is that how this started

smoky quest
#

same starting point as usual 🙂

summer roost
#

I can confirm that my relatively large company hires new grads in New York and New Jersey for SWE jobs at upwards of $100k.

shadow bay
summer roost
#

and anecdotally, every CS major from my college who I stayed friends with and was still talking to after college had paid off all of their student loans within 5 years. Granted that was only around 3 others besides me, but 🤷

summer roost
shadow bay
#

perhaps ive screwed up my career & become cynical 🤷‍♂️

ivory sluice
#

@shadow bay i read your earlier post now, have you considered that bachelors degrees from public state universities can be comparably more affordable, especially if you do a semester or two at a community college?

ocean ledge
#

all investments are risks, it just happens that an education is a risk you have much more control over

#

if your investment fails to overcome that risk, then shrug, but that's life

smoky quest
shadow bay
smoky quest
#
  • I still have to mention it, but this is completely a US centric problem. Most other countries have more sane education systems
  • There will always be an unfortunate set of students who will drop out and with debt. While I would love to improve their situation and prevent it from happening in the first place, I don't see it as a reason to recommend against it for everyone. As the says goes: "don't drop the baby with the bath water"
#

Also overall, while not perfect, CS is still somewhat largely meritocratic

ivory sluice
shadow bay