career-advice

[radiant moon]

I've heard that some people have "gotten jobs"

[sour mist]

and music and coding i my only way out off being broke when i'm a adult

[dull forum]

@smoky quest I am interested in A.I. , coding and 3D printing to but I don't know which one has more scope now or in the future so it would be great if I start planning my career.

[last raft]

Guys can anyone tell me whether photoshopping will be required for coding in future or not?

[near ocean]

No? Why would it

[buoyant seal]

in web dev people use Figma to design sites layouts, those people are called actually designers, not really devs, though sometimes frontend devs are designers at the same time

for some small stuff sometimes photoshop, sometimes any available online tool just used, i like photopea.com to do stuff ;b
there are some 3D modelings tools for game dev also

Content creators of unique icons and other objects can use anything from Photoshop to Corel Draw and e.t.c. But that's artist job, not really dev job

[last raft]

Ok thanks

[thorny vigil]

heya

@left socketwhats this voice verified? ||damn im chatting in wrong channel||

[low scaffold]

what gpa is good for undergrad getting a bachelors in order to get good job opportunities

@shadow mountain

[shadow mountain]

3.5 ish would be ideal

anything 3.0 and over is good

[low scaffold]

and what about to get into masters program

[shadow mountain]

not sure

[minor nimbus]

Some YouTubers are saying that python jobs are not good and switch to a different language

[true harness]

with what evidence?

[lavish fjord]

there are diffrent languages for diffrent uses in my opinion python is the best for ai and data science c++ is good for making games

[near ocean]

Youtubers will say anything controversial because people click on it and thats how they get paid, disregard

[hollow oriole]

dude

[near ocean]

Yes?

[left escarp]

does open source contribution count as work experience ?

[lucid vapor]

Hello, is there an issue?

[balmy mural]

@shy mural logs, he deleted his messages afterwards

[dapper depot]

!ban 825843465350545408 racism

[inner wren]

Sorry, an unexpected error occurred. Please let us know!

ServerDisconnectedError: Server disconnected

[gritty rivet]

I wouldn't put it under a "work experience" heading per se, but it's definitely worth including under projects or whatever

[dense mesa]

Definitely talk about it and have it down as volunteer experience, but I personally wouldn't put it as work experience as it wasn't formal and you're not paid

And I'm sure the interviewer would be happy to talk about it

[carmine scaffold]

I’ve never really wanted a professional career as a programmer, but are there any jobs for bot development and AI?

[near ocean]

What kind of bots? Discord bots, not unless you freelance for small things on sites like fiverr

AI/ML is a huge industry and of course theres jobs in it

[burnt wren]

I have attempted applying for remote Full-stack, Backend, Product SWE roles (involving Python) but have a very low success rate in getting interviews (1 out of 20). And that one interview is because I had a referral. Here's the resume I have. Any advice?

Also, do you think I have a chance to get into positions that involve Django development? I have finished reading a bookhttps://github.com/paxcodes/book_WebDevWithDjango and have been exposing myself to Django resources (DjangoChat, youtube, etc.). I’m planning to use Django/DRF for my next personal project but I don’t think I’ll have something substantial soon.

I was hoping to find work sooner rather than later but really wondering if I should stop applying and focus on study / personal projects / open-source.

[smoky quest]

coding is an activity, not a field like AI/ML or 3d printing.
Either way, software as a whole keeps growing and has a bright future

[smoky quest]

I don't see why you would not be able to get into django related jobs.

Overall, your resume is already pretty good and much better than last time.
Some random notes:

• You put a lot more emphasis in your last job considering it takes more space than the previous two. If you are looking for an automation role, it's fine, but it may have an impact if you are looking for backend/fullstack.
• For open source contributions, it would be nice to call out specific contributions. For instance something which require a deep expertise.
• If you have any task or experience related to scale or performance, add something

[burnt wren]

If you have any task or experience related to scale or performance, add something
How can one have that when work provides no opportunity for such a task? I have been studying system design (mainly youtube and then researching when I encounter something unfamiliar) but I don't know how to show that (e.g. in a personal project, etc.) to a potential employer.

[smoky quest]

Have you been at any job where you needed more than one instance to handle the traffic?
Have you had to optimize some db queries or schema? Or code path? Or added caching?

[burnt wren]

Have you had to optimize some db queries or schema? Or code path? Or added caching?
A, yes. I had some tasks involving these but not at a level that would show deep expertise. Can I ping you once my updated resume is ready?

[smoky quest]

sure

[steep rampart]

my dad wants me to start learning python

so this is a blessing honestly, but i basically know nothing about it

[smoky quest]

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ is a good start

[steep rampart]

👍 appreciate it man

[late jacinth]

😱

[left cairn]

what is this

yes it is an animal

it looks like 2 snakes

[burnt wren]

@smoky quest I added a summary because in another community I got a comment that it was needing one. What do you think of it? Any skill missing that's essential for target roles of full-stack, backend, or product swe?

I added the line, "Increase page speed (TTFB) by setting up static page caching; Reviewed and optimized SQL queries of problematic pages."

[gritty rivet]

That's not really a summary, that's a skills section and an education section crammed under a summary heading. That info is important to include, but your summary section (if you include one) should be a narrative summary. Almost any example you can find online should illustrate this

[smoky quest]

I agree with dowcet. The skills/education is useful but they aren't your summary.

With regards to the summary, unless you have something very specific you want to call out, you don't really need it. I would just update the title of your resume based on the target role (ex: Backend Software Engineer (Python) for backend jobs)

For your skills, I would add new lines between the main subjects (backend/frontend/devops)

[smoky quest]

Also, if you have the possibility to write some backend in java at your current job, it would open up a lot more jobs for you

yeah, I checked your repos and they are really clean and thought through (the readmes, the .env.sample, the project managements, code style, parameters...). Had you had some java, I might have forwarded you to my $DAY_JOB jobs

It's not every day you see people here with that kind of repos

[burnt wren]

Thanks, @gritty rivet and @smoky quest for the feedback! Will adjust accordingly.

Thanks for the encouraging note @smoky quest -- Last I handled Java was back in uni. I probably could get the hang of it again if work requires. Given the lack of response I've been having, I'm tempted to hold off on the applications and plug away at my personal projects. I need more Django experience anyway. Anyway, thanks again. I might print that off to remind myself to keep at it.

[smoky quest]

np. Don't discourage and keep at it!

[summer roost]

I'd recommend you keep applying to places. To a certain extent, it's a numbers game - the more places you send your resume to, the more callbacks you get, and the better the chance of you finding a great fit. Cast a wide net. Don't feel bad applying to jobs where you're missing some of the required skills; they're rarely actually required.

[smoky quest]

And one last thing: I remember mentioning it to you last time and you pushing back, but I do believe your resistance to putting Senior or Lead to your title is harming you in a significant way

Any engineer with 10+ years of experience ought to have Senior or something like that in their title or something is wrong

[summer roost]

it seems like you've been at the same company for 10 years, at least one of them as a team lead - that certainly sounds like a senior position to me.

in my mind, there's only junior and senior developers - if you wouldn't be willing to do the type of work that someone just out of college does, or work for the pay that someone just out of college gets, then you should be considering yourself a senior engineer.

[smoky quest]

the way people see you is directly affected by how you see and consider yourself

If you don't see yourself as senior, others won't and can't see you as such either

(that's also where the "fake it until you make it" comes into play)

[summer roost]

to that end, also - make sure that the jobs you're applying to aren't ones that you're over qualified for

[smoky quest]

Note: I still hate the slowmode

[summer roost]

if you're underselling yourself, you might find that companies aren't willing to call you back because they can fill that position with someone younger and less expensive.

[summer roost]

that's understandable, but adding the slowmode drastically increased the quality of discourse in this channel.

[smoky quest]

overall, you don't get penalized by aiming higher. But you do get penalized by aiming lower

[smoky quest]

any way to have it disabled for people who have been here for more than X weeks/months? Most likely these people have been long enough that they don't make the discourse worse?

[summer roost]

unfortunately, no. We can't even disable it for non-moderator members of staff. Discord's permissions just aren't granular enough.

[smoky quest]

ah fair enough. We are probably going astray from the channel's purpose, but the coding den does have a time based VC access. Might be worth checking how it works or if even applicable to typing restrictions

[summer roost]

you could try bringing it up in #community-meta - there are other people on staff with far greater expertise than me on what is an isn't possible within Discord's constraints

[smoky quest]

got it. Thanks!
I probably don't care enough about it yet to go about it

[brave hazel]

Hi everyone

[sly quarry]

Is it possible to use python and HTML in a file and how

[gray gorge]

hi

[lime cape]

i want a carrer in coding

any help?

[summer roost]

Get a degree in computer science or software engineering

[near ocean]

I dont think mentioning how you dont need a degree is useful
Absolutely you need a degree, its a profession like any other and a degree will open doors for you, some you cant open for yourself

[summer roost]

It's possible to get a software dev job without a degree, but it's much harder than getting one with a degree. The best career advice is absolutely to get a degree.

[left escarp]

Hello, I need a bit of help in resume building
For open source contributions for various projects, while listing them in my resume, do I talk about my work in those projects or just a note on what those projects are?

[summer roost]

what country are you in?

[near ocean]

Do you have a layout section already in your cv?

[left escarp]

India

[left escarp]

I do not understand what you mean

[summer roost]

does India tend to use resumes, or CVs?

[left escarp]

the form does ask for a resume

[summer roost]

I'm not at all familiar with conventions in India, but in the US, junior developers would be expected to have a single page resume. One page doesn't give you a lot of room to play, so you need to highlight what's most important. Education history and work experience are more important than projects. If you still have room left after that, listing info about what you did for each of your OSS projects seems useful

[left escarp]

right

can I send you my resume so you can have a look?

[summer roost]

sure, I'll take a look sometime today, but not right away

[left escarp]

ah nvm, have to submit in about an hour, lol

[gritty rivet]

The main point is the nature your contribution, more than the project itself

Don't know what software that is but you're definitely in the wrong channel, maybe try #python-discussion

[summer roost]

gah, alright - send it to me and I'll give some quick notes

Anyone have a good link for checking if a resume is ATS-friendly?

[primal walrus]

help

wrong channel

[shadow moss]

https://www.onlineocr.net/

or some form of OCR service

[summer roost]

@left escarp ^ might want to run your resume through something like that, and see if what comes out is sensible

[left escarp]

okay

[summer roost]

your layout is columnar, and that can give text extraction tools trouble

[left escarp]

oof, the word doc is actually messed up

[summer roost]

and you're uploading it as a word doc, or as a PDF?

[silk basalt]

Hey, has any of you heard of the Foobar challenge?? I got the invite for this, this is very exciting but at the same time its not the right time of the year for it. Right before the exams for me :/. Is that a rare thing to happen? I'm not studying programming nor really planning on having a job that consists only of that. But this is so intriguing...

[orchid ivy]

do you want to work for Google? if you're interested in working for them, you should take the challenge because that's how they hire future employees.

[true harness]

no way they still hire people through that right

[silk basalt]

I do not really wanna, but I know people who might be interested... And I saw on a website that I could invite someone after I solved level 2...

[orchid ivy]

up to you. but if you're busy with exams, focus on studying and prepping for those. you'll have more opportunities down the road.

[orchid ivy]

they probably still use it for recruiting. you won't immediately get hired, but you can land an interview.

[smoky quest]

most of the hiring at google is done through normal channels and recruiters reaching out

[silk basalt]

I'll see... I'm curious so I'm only taking a quick look at it right now. Cleaning the apartment is more fun than studying... So I don't have to explain how much more exciting the challenge is xD.

I'll see with my programmer friends if they wanna do it with me to get a chance to register themselves...

Thanks for your feedback

[green pulsar]

Hello guys. Please I need clarification on the python certification.

Before I registered for the certification I thought I saw somewhere that I could retake the exam if I didn't meet up with the cutoff.

I wrote the exam is at lier this week with 62% as the result instead of 70.

I've been trying to search for how to reschedule to retake the exam. I'll really appreciate if anyone could share a knowledge about this or render an assistance. Thank you

[sour tartan]

what certification did you sign up for? "the python certification" sounds like there is one official certification, which there isn't.

[green pulsar]

The associate
PCAP

I know the essential is just once at a payment. But I read about the associate something that seem "one could retake the exam if he failed"

[sour tartan]

I still don't know which one this is: is there a website?

[green pulsar]

https://pythoninstitute.org/certification/pcap-certification-associate/

[sour tartan]

thanks. i think you will have to write to them to ask about retaking the exam

[green pulsar]

You could read about the three certifications here

https://pythoninstitute.org/certification/

[green pulsar]

Okay. Thank you

[vapid jay]

Hey hey I've got a question. I'm a senior software engineer with 10 years of XP and I'm being paid 150K, am I being low balled hard?

I'm located in SF bay area

[true harness]

try plugging in your details into glassdoor

[smoky quest]

total or just cash? Which role? What impact do you have?
Look also at levels.fyi

[vapid jay]

150 total in a startup. I'm a tech-lead on the team and 50% of my time is coding

[smoky quest]

at which stage? seed can be different than round B or D

do you also know the % of your equity?

[vapid jay]

It's series D

[smoky quest]

ah then yeah, you are being fucked

[vapid jay]

I had a feeling that was the case based on random online salary reports

[smoky quest]

for seed, 150-175 for cash, is in the range, with some % of equity. Because company is low on cash but expects to go high in equity.
But at series D, when the companies has raised at least in the tens/hundreds of millions of dollars, that is not an acceptable salary anymore

[dry sapphire]

I just got it too

finished level 3 and stopped

I mostly did everything myself, but you should be aware that Foobar has been around for quite a while and public solutions for more or less every question are available

[worldly coral]

Oh, They don't change the questions?

[vapid jay]

What are the most easiest Fiverr gigs to do with Python? I feel like you need to know everything to do them..

[dry sapphire]

there is a set of questions from which the ones you are assigned are randomly selected, but considering they're still using Python 2.7, I doubt it

[worldly coral]

Hmmm i see, why Python 2.7 and not 3.x?

[dry sapphire]

there was a lot of division in the community around the switch from 2 to 3, and when Foobar was first created, 2.7 was much more popular

[worldly coral]

Interesting, do you eventually think they'll move out of 2.7 sometime in the future?

[dry sapphire]

it seems that Foobar hasn't really been maintained in a while, and whether they even hire from it at all nowadays is in question, too, so...I wouldn't bet on it.

[worldly coral]

I see, thanks

[dense mesa]

From my limited experience with tech VCs in London, that is not nearly enough

Anecdotally, I have friends who have received £100k+ grad offers for quant/IBD firms, and a few people with 3+ YoE at big tech firms who are on £150-200k+

[dry sapphire]

oh wow I didn't know tax rates in London were so ridiculously high (I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right thing?)

[dense mesa]

You could join the /r/startups discord to cross reference the levels.fyi data with anecdotal reports of salary

[dry sapphire]

I'm not very familiar with conditions in the UK so what are costs of living like? my impression is that they're pretty high

[dense mesa]

UK highest tax band is like 40% off the top of my head, London living is expensive, £200/week bare bare minimum (you'd get a room and maybe a separate kitchen) ranging to like £400-500/week

Oh yeah 45% if you're above £150k salary, no more personal allowance as well. Although at that point you'd be looking at opening a personal business/sole trader entity to minimise tax

[low field]

Is going to the job fair at PyCon in search for a job something fruitful for someone who is self taught and has a portfolio?

[summer roost]

If you'll be at PyCon, absolutely

[summer roost]

I don't think I'd buy a ticket just for that, but if you'll be there it sounds like a great use of time.

[low field]

@summer roost I see. What's the best way for someone who is self taught to get a job then? For reference I have a bachelor's degree, but in Psychology. My goal was to learn python and build a portfolio of projects demonstrating my competence. And once I do that I'll start submitting applications, while working on open source community projects. But I'm worried that may not be enough.

[gritty rivet]

With enough persistence, sure, I think that's a viable path

[low field]

I see. Once I have a decent portfolio and am competent in Python, how long should it take me to find a job?

On average of course. I'd also be willing to move anywhere in the U.S., though I would prefer to be somewhere in the West Coast.

[smoky quest]

for more mainline profiles, in general it takes a few months from start to finish (practicing leetcode, refreshing resume, scheduling, multiple interviews, negotiations, etc.). So probably more for people who don't come from a traditional background

[low field]

Taking that as "less than a year" which I consider positive.

[smoky quest]

I hope so. Just be aware that right now, it's a senior's market. There are a lot of graduates who still struggle to find something. So they will be your competition.
But keep at it and eventually you should find something

[low field]

So it's hard to find a job as an entry level programmer? Or it's hard in a way like it's hard to find a job in any foot in the door position?

[smoky quest]

a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B

you need senior engineers to train and mentor junior engineers. But your senior engineers keep being poached left and right and you need to backfill that first

Thus juniors kind of being on the back burner until you have enough capacity to onboard them

[vapid jay]

Looking to get into game development or computer graphics. Is this recommendable ?

I am currently working in the industry. Got a month in doing embedded systems. I enjoyed it actually, but the projects themselves tend not to be that interesting (controlling the lights inside a car for example).

Now I'm working as a backend dev, I also enjoy it, but I feel like I'm wasting 90% of my background. I enjoy and love physics/mathematics.

Feel like game dev will fullfil both my passions (programming and physics). But is it recommendable ? Are these jobs paid as much as other soft eng positions? Is it hard to find these jobs?

[smoky quest]

gamedev is a lot more hours for a lot less pay.
So there is that.

In general, backend can be very much fulfilling and interesting. But it's a lot more domain dependent

Most people will do gamedev on their spare time for the reasons above

[vapid jay]

Why is that though?

I'm looking to code stuff like game engines and literal realistic physics sims. It's not an easy task, I would imagine it was as well paid as other jobs.

[smoky quest]

literally everyone in CS has played games and would love to get in?

Supply >>>> demand
Thus it's easy to replace people and force them to overwork themselves

it's not about being complex. It's about the available number of candidates just waiting to get in

[vapid jay]

That's a bit sad

[smoky quest]

so are the millions of other devs forced into a boring job 😉

but yeah, it's a lot easier to find someone who wants to write games than someone who wants to work in ads

[vapid jay]

Even AI is not as interesting as it looks. Machine Learning/data science jobs are just treating data to train models

[smoky quest]

I would put an asterisk into that

It can be boring if it gets reduced to that. But it can also be a lot more interesting in some other context where you need to solve problems

[vapid jay]

I've been told that most of the industry is that. Cool AI is mostly found in research. But idk, haven't worked in it.

[surreal mica]

Hello @blazing dirgeone, is there anyone who can guide me regarding research papers which I want to publish in an International Conference.

[smoky quest]

for AI, startups are the place to be

[smoky quest]

but you also have to be mindful of the hype/sales pitches

research can be actually quite simple/narrow minded

[vapid jay]

I feel like it's overused. I've seen master thesis being wasted on detecting peaks that were perfectly detectable with conventional methods

[smoky quest]

that's why I find startups more appropriate for AI/ML. Either it solves a problem or the company dies

[vapid jay]

@smoky quest what's your opinion on computer vision? Recently found out about it, also sounds interesting

[naive stump]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but, how difficult is it for me to get my foot in the door for a programming position if I have no experience and willing to exchange salary for experience :/? I really need some advice here, thank you in advance.

[smoky quest]

it's interesting but it depends a lot on what you are expecting out of it. ie. finding cats in pictures is very different from root cause analysis

[smoky quest]

it's gonna be pretty difficult

[naive stump]

I see, alright, I'll keep building up my portfolio. Also, is there like other ways that I can further grow my portfolio besides doing projects? Should I try to apply for a tech support of some sort or start contributing to open source?

[smoky quest]

See also https://roadmap.sh/ to grow your skills.
But what you are suggesting makes sense

[near ocean]

You could try volunteering, theres plenty of organisations that would take skilled people
When i was in uni we had tons of student run projects that taught various things to schoolkids, could join one of those

[smoky quest]

just to provide more context, any new person will take time away from the senior folks.
So if you know nothing, you may end up being a net negative as you take more time than you end up contributing. So it's all in about being able to contribute.

[prisma raptor]

question planning to do a career move into production just wondering what happens on the day to day as from what I’ve heard it’s some what similar to what im doing currently just with a different concept and not industrial.

As to why I want to career change looking for a challenging and I love working makes the day go by and general feels good

Any tips or advice appreciated

[coarse sphinx]

hi

[proper hemlock]

can anyone tell what should be plan to step by step fully master python with time?

im 13 btw

[near ocean]

take your time to learn python properly, theres no specific number of steps one takes to learn something, we all learn differently
start with !resources in #bot-commands

[buoyant seal]

Specify field of application.
Machine Learning, Web Development, Desktop Development and e.t.c.

[dense mesa]

There's no step by step plan to mastering anything, you just have to keep trying and putting in consistent effort

[buoyant seal]

https://coggle.it/diagram/XgtVOa6K4obH730X/t/🐍💻-python-developer-roadmap-💻🐍/0b172b9775a0f8f50c3cda856b4e3bd59c3f7c53f53f63282d116d69447072fe

This one is funny map I guess, since it shows all the different types of python applications

This one is more data scientish map https://towardsdatascience.com/data-science-learning-roadmap-for-2021-84f2ba09a44f

This is just python map with some backendish a bit orientation at its end https://roadmap.sh/python
and this is backend path in detail https://roadmap.sh/backend

Those maps are funny to see too https://codeburst.io/the-2018-web-developer-roadmap-826b1b806e8d
a bit outdated, but interesting additional details

[proper hemlock]

ok thankss

[ancient sail]

How do i start learning python

[near ocean]

do !resources in #bot-commands and also consider using the general chat instead of this one, this is specific to career discussion

[ancient sail]

Oh thx👍

[vapid jay]

When should a programmer start saving up to a good setup at home? when he goes to high school, uni or has a job?

[echo wadi]

what setup do you mean? like keyboard and mouse?

[vapid jay]

no a whole setup, chair, desk, pc, monitor etc, my back hurts rn, im just laying my laptop on my knees on my bed lol

[true harness]

as soon as you want your back to stop hurting ig. as for laptops and other stuff directly related to working, the company will provide it if they need you to have it

[echo wadi]

I would start asap, having a nice setup is always good

[vapid jay]

idk how to save up tho, i dont make no money I dont have time I need to study

[summer roost]

furniture is expensive, but you could start with something relatively cheap like https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/bjoerkasen-laptop-stand-anthracite-20476474/ or https://www.amazon.com/SHW-Height-Adjustable-Mobile-Rolling/dp/B09JQ6J4L7/ - that would at least get you to the point where you can sit upright in bed, legs over the edge, and have reasonable posture with the laptop on a table at an appropriate height/angle in front of you.

[summer roost]

that wouldn't be as good as a chair with lumbar support, but it would certainly be better than hunching over a computer on your lap.

[thick juniper]

On this note of being able to contribute (or, rather, appearing able to contribute which might be more important for the application process), is it better to demonstrate mastery in one language or to demonstrate ability in several?

[polar hound]

hi

im 14 and i wanna start learning about python but i dont know much about it i was wondering how i could learn?

[smoky quest]

It's a cost function between how far you are with the actual job. If I my projects are in java, I don't give a shit if you know ruby, python, ocaml and 4 others non-java languages

Obviously, it's more nuanced than that, but that doesn't change from the 1 vs 5 languages

note also that coding is a tiny part of the actual job. There are also soft skills (ex: communications, teamwork, etc.) or hard skills (ex: domain expertise, knowing what caching/db/message queues are for backend, etc.)

And since it's pretty rare to find someone who hits all the notes, it goes back to a cost function and what trade off is the hiring manager willing to make. For instance in the context of backend, you may now know java and know python, but you know enough about DBs and caching and is willing to learn java

[vapid jay]

Ahh yes tysm, i might buy one of them, nice you found one on IKEA too 🙂

[smoky quest]

You don't need money to take breaks, stretch yourself and have walks. Which has a huge impact in your health over the years

[vapid jay]

I do that but as soon as i sit back down my back, sometimes neck and especially my arms starts hurting, i go to the gym like i have no muscle issues or anything, i think its the way i sit in my bed, idk really, I have to save up to a setup but idk if its worth it since im just going to high school atm, so i wanted to know others opinion on when to get a setup for programming and studying since thats what ive been focusing on most of the time

[smoky quest]

chairs are better than the soft bed I believe

Most people I know haven't really invested in a fancy setup. That should not stop you though 🙂

[vapid jay]

I wont be able to have a fancy one either 😄 but im gonna try to save up to a decent one, it will take time though xD

[gritty rivet]

I bought a nice new sit-stand desk for like $220 on Amazon recently. Everything else in my setup (including a pretty nice office chair) was free or very cheap. I have three monitors, don't think I paid more than $50 for any one of them and at least one was free. So it really doesn't take a lot of money to have a reasonably comfortable setup. The sit-stand desk really helps a lot and was worth the investment, and in general used stuff is fine

[rustic badge]

can't wait to get one of these myself.

they're so damn convenient

I can see it already.

That moment when you're standing up coding, hit a snag, and can just casually walk off to think on the situation for a bit.

It's a completely different "feeling" from having to get up from a sitting position to do the same thing

anyway sorry, a bit off-topic. Tangent over

[dense mesa]

I had a sit/stand desk at my Amazon internship and it was definitely better that way

[frigid isle]

Hey does anyone know what GitHub actually does ? I read that it's like a place where people do open source projects because it is a request from other people . But just wondering how good you need to be in a certain language for it ? Also I'm guessing HTML, CSS and JAVASCRIPT is not included right ?

[hollow laurel]

Anyone Advice me what to do after learning python to become a Bioinformatian

[ornate cape]

ok, so in simple terms , GitHub is a website where you can store your projects /codes either in private mode or in public(Open source) mode for future uses. You don't need to learn any different language to use GitHub , its just buttons , mouse clicks etc like using a simple website. But you do need to have basic knowledge about repository , branches, push, pull etc. I thinks that's enough for just getting the concept of GitHub. Just remember its super easy to learn it

[tulip moth]

hey, got a quick question and any help would be appreciated, already tried google but there's not much on this exact topic.

My major is economics and i'm thinking about picking up a programming language to build a better skill set. The thing is i'm undecided between python, R, and Stata (which are to my understanding the 3 most related to my future field of work).

A current professor of mine is currently working at a consulting firm doing something i find interesting and he recommended Stata. A friend of mine studying computer science told me to go for python. And i found online some mention of R, which i have slightly seen throughout most of my statistics and probability courses in uni.

So i am not sure which way to go. I started doing some research on each of them, but like i said before, any insight would be really helpful. Thanks in advance 🙂

maybe this would be a better fit in #data-science-and-ml ??

[buoyant seal]

R and Stata look to me a bit as dead and outdated languages, I could be wrong though.
Choose Python indeed, it is extremely popular and used everywhere and fits data science quite well.

Lets check, googling
is R language dead?
Google answers

Yes, according to some folks in the IT industry, who say R is a dying language. ... At its peak in January 2018, R had a popularity rating of about 2.6%. But today it's down to 0.8%, according to the TIOBE index.15 Aug 2019

is Stata language dead?

Stata is dead. I'm sure there will be a mix of R and Python but probably econ will lean more R. Think of R as replacing Stata, Python as replacing Matlab.

Is Python Strangling R to Death? - Datanami
15 Aug 2019 — As programming languages go, there's no denying that Python is hot. Originally created as a general-purpose scripting language, ...

[tulip moth]

tyvm, i'll definitely keep that in mind

i may have been pretty convinced already haha

[buoyant seal]

the way I googled is a bit wrong though, because I needed to search global statistics instead of googling specific question like that, because I ask for bias in that case

https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-programming-languages-most-popular-and-fastest-growing-choices-for-developers/
It would be much better to compare it like this.
Anyway, I never heard of R and Stata and they aren't anywhere even mentioned in popularity lists

while Python keeps 2d place in world wide popularity

[buoyant seal]

https://www.upgrad.com/blog/data-science-programming-languages/
https://flatironschool.com/blog/data-science-programming-languages
we should have googled "Most Popular languages for data science", python just keeps 1st place ;b
R language is at least mentioned at 4th place now, Stata is not mentioned

googling best programming language for economics just yields weird result at every different page 🤔 Well, then better to use data sceince results.

[frigid isle]

Really, doesn't the open source project require people to code together ?

[ornate cape]

Not necessarily , open source means that your project or code is freely available to the world. Its not relevant whether youve done that project/code solo or in a team.

[frigid isle]

Ahh I see

Alright then thanks

[vast shoal]

Github is a site that hosts Git repositories.

Git is a version control system. It's a tool you can use to store different versions of a set of files and directories. Maybe you're familiar with how Word and Google Docs can let you view and restore previous versions of a document after you've edited it. It's kinda like that, except more powerful. The versions can span multiple files and directories, and you can have multiple parallel versions instead of just a linear sequence of versions.
All files and directories managed by Git is stored in what's called a repository, which is basically just a directory on your computer. Everything inside it is kept track of by versions, as described above. Git allows you to share your repository, including all versions contained in it, with other people over a network, and you can retrieve changes other people have made to the repository over the network in the same way.

This is how open source collaboration with Git and Github works. You create a repository for a code project locally on your computer. It contains source code, configuration, readmes, it can even contain images and video files, and whatever else you choose to store in it. Git works on files, it doesn't care what type of file they are. Once you've created an initial version of your project, you can upload it to Github using Git. There other people can view it and they can also download it to their own computers and make changes to it, and those changes will be stored as new versions in the repository. Once they are satisfied, they can upload the new version to Github, where you and everyone else can see it. Then you can download their changes (through a simple git command) and build on what they've done.

[jolly current]

Am I allowed to post here some job openings? 🙂

[dark arrow]

No, we don't allow that in this server

[jolly current]

Cool

[gritty rivet]

Python is very different in the sense that it is a multipurpose language. If you're going to be doing pure statistics, R and/or Stata are definitely still useful, just a bit niche

[dense mesa]

As someone with friends about to graduate in econ, definitely Python

[balmy mural]

We're in a python server, so that could get some biased answers. You talked to your professor, I'd suggest reaching out to more people in the field you want to work in and ask them which tools they use. If the field is dominated by R, you'll still have to learn R in the future if you learn one of the other now.

[vapid jay]

How hard would it be to become a professional gardener

[near ocean]

About as hard as it is to stay on topic in #career-advice

[vapid jay]

Hello! I am new to python. Could someone please explain to me what kind of programming language python is?

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This is about #career-advice and is dedicated to #career-advice .
For technical or general questions about python, you would be better served in #❓｜how-to-get-help or #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

I need some advice from all of you. I want to learn how to make discord bots in python on Fiverr. Should I go for it? Will people buy my product?

[smoky quest]

It's a bet, no different from any startup. No one can tell you a definite yes or no as it depends on many things as well as there being many ways to go about such bots.
The "build it and they will come" will typically fail and require a huge investment prior to seeing any result.
That's why most startups will use a lean approach and attempt at validating the need first. So find first who would buy such bot and for what purpose and see if they would buy it. If you can't find anyone, it means you would not have been able to sell it anyway. And through discussions, you may learn more about their needs and how different they may be and help you tweak your approach/bot

[vapid jay]

Awesome advice, thank you.

[somber moth]

freecodeacademy.com

[somber moth]

Can also invest a bit up front on targeted ads to see if you can generate any sales. Sponsored post on niche theme pages is also a pretty good bet

[vapid jay]

Hey, I’m currently 13 learning too! I can help you if needed. :) A quick DM is all it takes.

[smoky quest]

if you are 13, forget about freelancing. Learn things, try different things and have fun

[vapid jay]

Thanks. This is good advice.

[amber harness]

Hi. Do you have any suggestions for a research paper about Robotics and Artificial Intelligence? I'm currently in 11th grade and have the basic knowledge about Python and Arduino.

[smoky quest]

That's pretty broad. There are many things one could do

[dense mesa]

Robotic therapy pet using affective computing

That lets you use robotics in terms of control theory, driving actuators and servos etc, and then AI to do the affect recognition and response

[vapid jay]

hi friends

[dawn furnace]

Hi, If I am already learning javascript in school should I try to learn python on my own? I feel like it would be too complicated and I would be mixed up.

[amber harness]

Unfortunately, I am still learning the programming language, so control theory is still new to me. It was a great suggestion, though. Thanks for your response!

[dense mesa]

What's your plan to implement robotics in that case? Control theory is pretty necessary

[amber harness]

I cannot decide it by myself since I am in a group of students working together for this research.

[dense mesa]

You can do PID control in Python, should be enough for basic robotics

[amber harness]

Nice. Thank you for the advice!

[vapid jay]

Hii !

[viscid marten]

So I landed my first software development gig, I have a contract in front of me, and just wanted to know if you all knew of any pitfalls I should watch out for. (I will be a contractor, and not an employee. I am in the USA)

The contract has some pretty standard NDA, and information about any intellectual property I make belongs to them.

But it also has a 45 day invoice pay turn around, and it looks to be that they want me to warranty my work(For up to 1 year). Is that normal?

Also anything else I should keep an eye on?

[vapid jay]

hi

[summer roost]

What kind of "warranty"?

[viscid marten]

Do you mind if I post it verbatim?

[summer roost]

go for it.

[viscid marten]

Warranties
A. Required Skills. The Subcontractor warrants that the services performed under this
Agreement and all Statements of Work hereunder will be performed in a professional and
workmanlike manner with generally accepted industry standards and practices and further
warrants that the Subcontractor has the required skills and experience to perform the Services
set forth in this Agreement.
B. Free from Defects. The Subcontractor further warrants that the Services and Deliverables
provided by it to Company will be free from material defects in materials and workmanship. In
the event of a breach of the foregoing warranty, Company shall promptly
provideSubcontractorwithwrittennoticedetailingsaiddefect(“NoticeofDefect”). Within fifteen (15)
calendar days, Subcontractor shall promptly correct the defect. In the event Subcontractor shall
fail to correct the defect within said fifteen (15) days, the Subcontractor will, at the Company’s
sole option, refund the amounts paid by the Company to the Subcontractor under the applicable
Statement of Work. Notwithstanding any other term or condition in this Agreement or any
applicable Statement of Work, the foregoing warranty and any terms and conditions of this
subsection shall terminate twelve (12) months after the Company’s Acceptance pursuant to
Section 10 above,

I can post section 10 if you'd like to

[summer roost]

I've never done any contract work, but that sounds surprisingly open ended to me.

Hopefully someone with some more contract experience can weigh in.

[viscid marten]

Worse come to worse. I'll be testing everything, and will racking up a lot more billable hours to offset the possible risk

[dense mesa]

@viscid marten I don't study law and have no formal experience with it, but the defect clause sounds pretty vague and not in a good way. From what I remember, ambiguity benefits the person agreeing to the contract, but this is UK specific. If you already have to warranty you work, it could be worth getting a proper lawyer to go over it with you and make any amendments if needed

Free of defects is really subjective, I'm guessing this is for mission critical contracting work such as defence?

[viscid marten]

Nah, a fitness app.

[viscid marten]

This is their first tech project. I'm fairly certain I'll have to have them learn to use Cucumber so that we can both make sure we are the same page.

[summer roost]

Who is "The Subcontractor"? Is it you as an individual, or an LLC?

by my reading, that says that if they find any defect within a year of you delivering the product, and you don't fix it within 2 weeks, they can demand all the money they paid back. That seems very biased against you.

[dusky onyx]

A company sent me a job offer based on my github but it's for a field I've never worked with, and if I check their careers page I don't even fill their basic requirements. Is it still worth applying for either way?

[summer roost]

that could be a scam, but even the basic requirements are usually wish lists, not actual requirements. Is it a well known/reputable company?

[smoky quest]

contact a lawyer specialized in this in your area. They have seen many contracts and can give you more insights

[thick juniper]

It is typical for contracts to be read against the drafter when there is ambiguity, but just because something is ambiguous to us does not mean a court will rule it ambiguous. The assumption will be that the contract makes sense. Also, either the contract or applicable law might change what's "typical".

(I was trained as a lawyer and practiced for several years, but I am no longer a lawyer and this is not legal advice, and I know I have to say that but it's also true.)

[thick juniper]

This is the right answer.

[ivory sluice]

my first time seeing somone say IWTAAL instead of IANAL 😂

[buoyant seal]

kinky

[oak orbit]

banana

[dusky onyx]

Not too sure, on one hand their website and stuff looks pretty legit, on the other hand the main phone number for contact is from India
https://www.edvora.com/

[vapid jay]

Hello

[vast shoal]

That actually sounds like a super fun project.

[vast shoal]

Like @dense plinth said, this is a channel for discussions of Python careers and the world of work. If you need Python help, please see #❓｜how-to-get-help.

[warm sundial]

Did someone ping me?

@vast shoal

[vast shoal]

Yes, the above message is for you.

[warm sundial]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

There isn't even a message there. How do I make your message stop glowing? @vast shoal

[vast shoal]

I deleted your message because it's off-topic.

[warm sundial]

I have no idea what you're talking about @vast shoal why are you playing games?

I wasn't even at the computer, I've been on my laptop and I heard a sound a while ago

[vast shoal]

!tban 817751894968762430 3d Refrain from trolling when you get back, if you want to continue to have access to this server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @warm sundial until <t:1639840285:f> (2 days and 23 hours).

[gilded swan]

Hey i took a intro ui/ux class in college and have a really nice project and I was wondering where I could put it to show my employers since Im pretty sure I cant just take a screenshot and put it on my resume

[vast shoal]

You could get a VPS to host it

It's very cheap if you have low traffic requirements

[sick raft]

helllo

i m in 10th std

i m very confused about my future

[tropic flax]

Are there channels in this Discord to post if you're looking for talent? I'm a DevOps Eng. and got approval to start looking for another engineer. Wanted to check here first before posting in the tools-devops channel

[analog sun]

We actually have a rule against it, as we don't want to be a job board

[tropic flax]

Ah, okay

I thought I read the rules thoroughly enough, apologies mate.

[analog sun]

No worries at all 👍

[gritty rivet]

There's a DevOps server with a job board channel if you're not on there already https://discord.gg/devops

[smoky quest]

if it's just frontend, you can use gitlab/github for free

[gilded swan]

Its not actual code its only an adobe xd file

[tropic flax]

I am, appreciate the link - I came searching in the Python Discord because I'm planning on implementing Pulumi using Python 🙂

[waxen hound]

Что делать если я русский и не понимаю английского языка ?

[smoky quest]

most graphic/designers I know use behance/dribble to host their portfolios. Would that work for you?

[gilded swan]

Are either of those free?

[near ocean]

What kind of portfolio is this
I've used netlify for a couple small CRA apps and its free and easy to setup

[smoky quest]

y

[gilded swan]

Cause free is better

[smoky quest]

don't fall for penny wise, pounds foolish. Sometimes, paying a bit can generate greater returns than aiming for absolutely free

[near ocean]

It always depends, if youre a webdev and cant be bothered to pay for a domain and host yourself then whats the point

If youre trying to do other things and just wanna get your projects out there then it doesnt really matter

[opaque pebble]

hello, can I ask a question little off topics ?

[analog sun]

in off topic, sure
#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval #ot1-perplexing-regexing #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[opaque pebble]

for sur but it's for research an intership in USA for Jully

[analog sun]

Well, this channel is for career discussions. I think internships would apply to that so it is on-topic for here

[opaque pebble]

I want to be really sur, cause it's really hard for me...

I am leaving in France, I have a great resume.

For my school I need an intership of minimum 2 mounth and maximum 4 mounth.

I can search in french company, but my dream is to find one in USA,

So I want to enter in contact with a company can accept me, start jully, for this amount of time.

Somebody have something to send me?

(You can also send me a private message)

[vapid jay]

how to do py to exe please help me

THANKS

[smoky quest]

Don't use words like "give me". Nothing will be given to you.
Also do your research as such internship will most likely require a visa.

My advice to you is to look in indeed/linkedin and search for companies in tech hubs and send your application to them

[opaque pebble]

For a visa, it's visa J, and if I get a contract and signed, the visa is really easy to obtain in comparaison of how much time I have already pass to search an interships and send candidatures

On linkedin/ indeed, it's seems the coronavirus affraid companies to search in other contries, or I am to low in studies or the amoung of times is too big

also and not the last thing, I can be helped to conduct this project to the end, but I really want to get it by my self

[smoky quest]

J1 is not a really easy visa. It takes time, paperwork and may include some trips to the US embassy

[opaque pebble]

Yes I know, I negociate with my dad to organise and get all paper needed to make it fast, I just need now a company

[formal island]

Hello, friends. I am applying to the States to get a bachelor's degree in Computer Science, but have a dilemma. My dream is to study in the USA (as I adore English and wanna emigrate in the future). That's said, there are too few unis providing full fin. aid for international students, and from those few there are actually plenty liberal arts colleges.
So, what would you suggest: going to a US liberal arts college or to the most prestigious uni in CS in my country (it's ranked 501-550 globally)?
I just want to have my education in English, but at the same time adequately prestigious to be able to get a master's degree at a top uni (one of the Ivys for instance). Is there any point in going to liberal arts institution?

Sorry for formulating it complicatedly btw

[opaque pebble]

Do you have something to help me ?

I need now to go fast

[smoky quest]

I would say to go apply to companies and if you have someone in the USA in your network, go say hi to them.
The visa process will take time, so make sure you don't take it too easy there.

Also feel free to ask people here to review your resume to get some feedback on it

[opaque pebble]

ok

thx very much

[keen osprey]

Hello. I am new here. I’m trying to get into Python development to help change my career. I have a few months of study under my belt. And I’m trying to start looking to find a project to volunteer with or for a recommendation on how to move forward. I’m saying this as a disclosure, but I’m not seeking a paid venture. I’m worried that all I’m doing is studying and not actually putting my foot forward to work. If this isn’t the right channel or area to bring up this discussion, I understand. If you have any thoughts, questions, or concerns, I am all ears. Thank you for your time and be well.

[crimson crater]

i want to make a manufacturing script for eve online if your intrested

but im a beginner who only has programmed for 1 month so

[smoky quest]

practice is a very important part of the learning experience.
You can work on small projects of your own or look for open source projects to contribute to

[crimson crater]

my project

[keen osprey]

Okay. That’s a fair thought. Question is where to find projects to work on. I hear your words, but I’m trying To find something worth while. Should I look for specific projects or just start work on anything?

[gritty rivet]

It really depends on your skills and your interests. If you're just starting out you'll probably need to do some small projects on your own before you find a way to contribute

[keen osprey]

Ok. I’m taking a Udemy boot camp and I’ve been doing a lot of studying through W3 schools and Mimo.

[smoky quest]

There are no hard rules.
Given you are a beginner, I would look for projects that are established and friendly to beginners and start with easy tickets or even smaller tasks like documentation. And to not hesitate to join their discord/irc/matrix/mailing list and asking for where you could contribute

[keen osprey]

Okay. Thank you. That sounds like a pretty decent idea.

[sick raft]

I m 16 yo and interested in learning computer languages

[dim spire]

hey guys, I am interested in changing my career from finance to Data science. Can anyone experienced in data science advise a good path to that? I have started learning Python and SQL on my own and I will be taking a Data Science certificate at a university

[buoyant seal]

@dim spire

[dim spire]

@buoyant seal thank you!

[forest nymph]

Hi. I am fairly experienced dev. I am looking for a new job after a long time, and am curious where I can find some trustworthy salary information

[forest nymph]

data scientists are mathematicians that happen to use programming to accomplish their goals. Dont mistake being a programmer, with being a data scientist. That being said if you want to be a statistician, knowing python can be helpful to speed up and productize your work.

[summer roost]

levels.fyi and glassdoor.com are the best I know of

[acoustic storm]

hi i am new to python can anyone tEACH ME THIS THING PLZ MY DREAM IS TO CODE.

[dim spire]

@forest nymph what would you advise for me to learn to get into data science?

[forest nymph]

calc, linear alg, stat

otherwise ur just another guy pretending he knows what hes doing by importing tensorflow

[fast verge]

I am a student in high school. I've been working with programming for nearly 4 years now (more like 2 years of serious work). My experience includes CS50 (introductory python, C, and SQL), COMSC-110 (C++ this time) at my local college, COMSC-165 (advanced C++. Includes linked lists, binary trees, stack/queue), AP CSA (a java class which I'm currently enrolled in that is teaching me OOP), and a portion of a data science/machine learning course where I've learned the basics of supervised learning.

Here are some projects I've made on my own:
-Basic linear regression using APIs and packages to acquire data and matlab to display it graphically.
-Basic binary trees to create programs similar to the akinator
-Basic discord bot using SQL to store persistent data
-Basic websites using flask (long time ago)

Despite a (maybe) reasonable list of achievements, I feel like I can't do much. I can't create a fully fledged website, I can't work with GUI's, I have never collaborated on a project, and I feel like I could never even dream of creating an application beyond 1k lines of code.

So my question is what am I missing and what can I do to fill in these gaps? Thanks :)*

[vapid jay]

So I am a Kid of 11years old so my dad told me that python is good and learn it . why to learn it?

[night abyss]

is having a linkedin profile worth it or just a waste of time?

[smoky quest]

depending on the country, you don't exist if you don't have a linkedin profile

[smoky quest]

it's fun, it's interesting and can do a lot of things with it

[night abyss]

im in the US

[smoky quest]

the US is one of these countries

[night abyss]

idk what you're trying to say but ok?

[summer roost]

they're saying that it's essential to have a linkedin profile in the US

[summer roost]

for what it's worth - I've never bothered - I think I have one, but I certainly haven't updated it in a decade, and I haven't had any trouble hopping jobs.

[buoyant seal]

it turns a bit to look like another tiktok tbh. But I have good usage for that. I keep updating resume / training to write it, so I could copy it to other tools in case of need.
Basically linkedin is online notepad for resume for me.

A bit interested to try finding work through it one day. But that would require me getting fired from current job eventually.

[smoky quest]

Linkedin is a great conduit to have opportunities brought to you. You can get hit by recruiters pretty much every day

It's also one of the first thing someone would use to check you out and your background

Also leveraging your network can be pretty helpful to reach specific companies or people

I have even used it for market research for new products

[vast shoal]

I keep my LinkedIn profile up to date and I have a constant stream of like 5+ recruiters a week trying to set up interviews. I am a senior-level dev, but still, I probably wouldn't get anything without LinkedIn.

Not saying you'd have the same experience at entry-level, but the better your profile looks, the more likely you'll get contacted.

[north blaze]

For any of you who have been in an IT related field if you were to go back to college and redo your degree what what you pick knowing what you know now?

[buoyant seal]

I would have been reading The Manga Guide To series for any math subject. Imagine going with easy through Regression analysis, Statistic, Linear Algebra and e.t.c.

[forest nymph]

imo linkedin only necessary for people in business development/public figures (think C suite). best jobs ull get will be from your network of people uve worked with and established a reputation with over time

there is absolutely no better self advertisement than good quality work on a solid team

[forest nymph]

If uve done those things listed, u can absolutely do the things u said “cant”. confidence and research is all u need at this point, the ability is there

[west turtle]

I have a question, i want to be a mathematician, do i have to take engineering classes or is there a specific path ?

[quasi glacier]

BSc maths, MSc and then PhD 😅

[west turtle]

ok thx ^^'

[dusty cosmos]

Hello there ! i'm currently trying to figure out what i can do with Python in a professional purpose. In my country, Python is the top programming language in jobs boards results. However, when i'm looking for a backend framework (Django, Flask, Fast API), cause i was a PHP developer before, i find nothing compare to the others languages. So what could i learn with Python (stack) to find a job in your opinion ? Thank you !

[gritty rivet]

Django is the most powerful of those. Since you're experienced as a developer I would focus on that. The other frameworks are fairly simple to pick up in comparison

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[dusty cosmos]

Thank you for your help.

[night abyss]

so going back to what i said about linkedin

is it necessary to network at all?

[near ocean]

Yes

Actually i take that back, its not necessary but it makes things a lot easier

[keen osprey]

Having not worked on coding as a profession, I can’t really speak to this. However, having done lots of freelance writing, none of it has come from LinkedIn. All of my stuff has come from Craigslist or job boards. I don’t know if you’ll get the same results that I have since it’s a different job market, but that may be a potential option. I do want to say that almost everyone that I’ve ever spoken to about jobs has almost auto routed me to LinkedIn. This is from college assistance, professors, family, friends, and probably anyone in between. I’m in the US and I cannot tell you how common it is. Mind you, I also want to say that I’m not a full-time writer. I just do stuff on the side. I hope that helps you. ^^

[twilit forum]

Necessary; No, Helpful; Yes.

Setting up a LinkedIn is easy as pie, and it requires minimal effort to keep it reasonably up to date.

[keen osprey]

I will keep this in mind when I put in effort to start mine. Thank you. ^^

[ocean ledge]

when I worked at my previous startup, our HR person accidentally posted our job on craigslist-- the resumes we got were hilariously bad, which usually speaks to the quality of people looking for jobs on craigslist

[night abyss]

can you get black balled in this field?

[near ocean]

what do you mean

[vapid jay]

what to do if there is no urllib.parse module?

[ocean ledge]

i wasn't aware urllib was a career

[digital fjord]

hello, we do not allow recruitment

[swift isle]

oh

sorry

[vapid jay]

You gonna wanna do programming for sure. You might go down a highly theoretical and abstract path, but lots of problems are not solvable via analytic means or at least, your reasoning towards a proof can be informed by numerical simulations. It's an overall good skill to have and your faculty will likely encourage you to learn it through its program.

[smoky quest]

it depends. It's not as necessary as air and food, but I would consider it necessary for someone who wants to have a successful career.

Not doing it will create more problems than it solves

[storm birch]

hi all!!
i'm new in python and don't know how to apply to a career! any body can help me??

[near ocean]

Find job posting you like
Apply to it

[dense mesa]

I'm biased as I study engineering but it's definitely worth studying a bit to see how the maths is applied

[storm birch]

where find? an how?

[near ocean]

Linkedin, indeed, any job site out there

[storm birch]

i'm junior without any real experience, i just coded practical sample! i need internship, is there any for someone like me?!!

[near ocean]

Junior in what? Have you been to uni? How old are you?

[storm birch]

in python, uni yes, but my field was different! 35 years

[near ocean]

Ok so what you need to do is write a CV/résumé, maybe build a couple small python projects to list on it and then start applying everywhere

[storm birch]

thanks a lot!

[dawn furnace]

Hi, If I am already learning javascript in school should I try to learn python on my own? I feel like it would be too complicated and I would be mixed up.

[smoky quest]

it depends.
If you are just starting out, then yeah, focus on javascript before going too broad

[crimson crater]

nodejs is what you get if python got sick

[ocean ledge]

nah, if you want to study pure math just do it-- applied math is easy

[dense mesa]

Lol

[forest nymph]

Have fun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems

and of course the most relevant for this audience, of those prize problems (mostly the younger guys just getting into the field / curious): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem

[night abyss]

do all IT/Tech jobs require a security clearance?

[ocean ledge]

no

almost all jobs don't require one

[buoyant seal]

so far the only company which I noticed has one... is AWS.
in theory any government related enough companies should be having it too.

[summer roost]

"Networking" is just the business-y word for talking to people. This, right here, what you're doing today? You're networking. You're meeting other people, with jobs in the industry you're interested in. That's really the whole thing.

[vapid jay]

whats a good websiteto find a job???

stackoverflow

[nova abyss]

hey I am a dude with a intermediate knowledge of python, any jobs that may require python?

[compact cedar]

I am currently working with pygame to create games and some animations should I really be focusing much on python if I want to become a game designer shouldn't I start learning c# and unity instead of making stuff on pygame

[nova abyss]

Unity is a better game engine than pygame so if you want to become a game developer I suggest you use unity.

[hollow forum]

i want to ask which will better working remotely or on campus, just want to ask your opinion.

[opaque pebble]

Hello I return to ask again my question,

Anyone have a job in USA to give me ?

[near ocean]

this isnt how you get jobs anywhere in the world

[winged lily]

Hello there guys

[hollow forum]

Yes

[near ocean]

This isnt a place to advertise

[stoic perch]

Sorry. Where would be an appropriate channel to do so?

[near ocean]

there is none in this server

[stoic perch]

Oki gotcha

[onyx trellis]

hello there sorry to bother

but can anyone help me with python code that I didn't understand properly

[winged lily]

Guys I've been through rough patch I've been doing the side jobs for living and i didn't focus much on programming which is my dream job but now that everything is on track in my life i have not touched programming from 2 or 3 years and I'm so lost and confused what i should follow should i follow web development, should i be a programmer for front end and what things are the best to learn for particular area what should i do guys

[near ocean]

this is strictly a careers discussion channel, if you need python help try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[forest nymph]

I think theres alot of confused people here that think “python programming” is a career

the career is problem solving and solutions development. to do that, you need to learn algorithms, data structures, core cs. Python is just one of many instruments to express ur thoughts and designs..

w.e ill shut up now

[opaque pebble]

I have published my resum

[near ocean]

apply to jobs then

[opaque pebble]

I do it put I need to ark everywhere

[near ocean]

ok so why are you asking for a job here then

[opaque pebble]

Cause "carreer-discussion", I wonder if somebody have a company and help me

[opal fractal]

hello

[hearty island]

gotta improve your networking game

[ivory sluice]

your point is valid and welcome

[dry ferry]

Worth it for sure - opportunity for on-platform and off-platform development. Currently, every major company has job reqs out and pay is great too.

[agile aurora]

Hi all, I am looking for someone who can help me out with SRE/ DevOps stuff, beginner and need someone who can provide me some basic knowledge and training

[near ocean]

knowledge and training is what degrees are for, you're not gonna find anyone here or pretty much anywhere that would offer to coach you for free

[forest nymph]

You could ask mr miyagi

[vast bolt]

Anyone studying/studied comp sci in Canada?

[agile aurora]

No one said its for free 🙂

[near ocean]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[granite loom]

hello, what projects would you consider small python proj's that are presentable? I can do Guess the Number, TicTacToe. but looking to build something a bit more intermediate.

any tips are appreciated.

[near ocean]

crud app, algo visualisation project

[ocean ledge]

how much we talkin?

[dense mesa]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[wary ginkgo]

yo

[ocean ledge]

not askin for paid work, just wondering how much he would offer

[flat tree]

Please do not encourage conversations that violate our rule 9

[night abyss]

Another thing I want to ask

If someone was arrested but was never convicted can they still get a tech job despite that their arrest was expunged?

[dense mesa]

Depends on the country and company hiring

[night abyss]

I'm in the US

So basically I have no chance?

[smoky quest]

Any project that would demonstrate some skills required/useful for the job.
I would recommend to look at job ads you care about and what skills they are looking for. Then try to think about projects which could demonstrate them. The nature of the project itself doesn't matter (as long as there is nothing illegal or obscene).

You can also look at roadmaps like https://roadmap.sh/ and identify the skills for your target jobs and projects to demonstrate them

[night abyss]

I'm not understanding

Do I have a chance now at getting an IT job or no?

[gritty rivet]

With enough motivation and persistence literally anyone could get an IT job eventually.

Having an arrest on your record will shut some doors, but as was said before, it depends on the company. I wouldn't worry about it much. You want to be prepared to talk about it if it comes up, but you should mostly just focus on being the best candidate you can be.

[night abyss]

So even tho it got expunged it still doesn't matter?

So I don't have a chance then

[gritty rivet]

If it's actually expunged I would assume that means it can't show up on a background check. If you're really so concerned about it you might want to talk to a lawyer.

[gritty rivet]

You seem to believe this, but nobody else here has said any such thing. If you believe that, it will make it true.

[summer roost]

Expunged records shouldn't show up on a background check. If they do, you can dispute them.

[granite loom]

thanks for the reply

[smoky quest]

np

[summer roost]

Even setting that aside, employers would usually ask if you've been convicted of a crime, not whether you've been accused of a crime. And in some states, they're not even allowed to ask that before interviewing you - look up "ban the box" states.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-is-a-ban-the-box-law.html

[night abyss]

And is that suppose to make a difference after what I been told earlier?

[summer roost]

I have no idea what you've been told earlier. I'm telling you what I know.

I know people with felony convictions who have served jail time and still have IT jobs.

[night abyss]

Well good for them

So what?

[summer roost]

You were asking whether a person who was accused but never convicted of a crime and who has had that record expunged can get a job in IT. Yes, they can, and so can people who were accused and convicted of a crime and who didn't have that record expunged.

[night abyss]

If you say so

[summer roost]

You asked:

Do I have a chance now at getting an IT job or no?
2 different people have told you that you do. I'm not sure what else you're looking for here.

[smoky quest]

fyi, they have been pretty aggressive on another server with the same question. So I wouldn't try too hard

[night abyss]

Anyways from my understanding another person told me it depends. And now all of a sudden I'm suppose to believe I can get an IT job as soon as I mentioned that the arrest was expunged? Yea ok

[summer roost]

It's not impossible no matter what. It's easier if the record was expunged. It's easier in a ban the box state. It's possible everywhere, if you have skills that are valuable enough.

[night abyss]

Once again if you say so

I have a hard time believing that now

[gilded tiger]

I'm kind of familiar with Python right now and I just want to start working on projects and stuff, so that I can improve my skills and also have something on my resume to start with.

If anyone wants to work on a project that's not too advanced, feel free to DM me, I'd love to contribute. 🤞🏿❤

[dense mesa]

@night abyss you're getting strangely aggressive over this despite already having made up your mind no matter what people tell you

We're not lawyers, we're people on the internet who are giving advice for free. You get what you pay for

[torpid saddle]

You're your own enemy with a mindset like that

[cold plank]

Depends for what u were arrested

And depends from company to company

But as long u were not in jail u are chilling

[red blaze]

Some crappy factory jobs check while some amazing detailed tech jobs don't check. It's the company culture and insurance policy

You'll get disqualified for many many many other things before a criminal record, and likely just think it's the criminal record holding you back, while in reality everyone is running into that same wall

Think "what Qualifies me" rather than what doesn't.. It'll keep you busy enough. If you think you're perfect aside from a record, think again

[violet badge]

Hello people. Are there may self taught Python programmers here who have gone on to have a decent career as a developer or data analyst?? It seems most of the programmers I come into contact with are either doing it for a hobby, or want to create courses or youtube channels. I talked to 1 guy who claimed to be a developer, but only started coding 2 years ago and now thinks he's qualified to started tutoring others and charging $80 an hour for mentoring. Didn't have a chance to ask what happened to his coding career....

[red blaze]

Yesterday Somebody explain this really well. They said something like, you don't get a career as a programmer, you get a career solving problems. Programming languages are a tool you used to do that

[red blaze]

Yeah

@violet badge

[night abyss]

I'm gonna put it like this. I heard too many things now and most of the "advice" I get is mediocre at best. So to think someone is gonna give me a chance now when I have a record now is BS

[red blaze]

Analyst might be too vague.. Most BI don't even use Python haha

[cold plank]

it's all in ur head dont bother about it

[red blaze]

Then you were looking for therapy not advice. Hugs to you

[cold plank]

if u are good at what ur speciality is u will get a job

[night abyss]

To hel with therapy. You think therapy actually works? Think again

[grim garnet]

hello guys i have a question if anyone can help me , i dont have any experience with coding so is the python the best language to learn it first?

[red blaze]

Absolutely

[true harness]

it tends to be a good choice

[red blaze]

Your screen name made me lol

[ivory sluice]

please stay on topic for the channel (career discussion)

[night abyss]

First of all someone brought up therapy so why the hell are you getting on me about it?

[ivory sluice]

your tone is getting abrasive, but the request to stay on topic applies to everyone not just you so don't worry about that

[dense mesa]

As I said you get what you pay for

[ivory sluice]

let's move on please 🙂
what's everyone's #1 resume or job hunt tip?

[dense mesa]

Have a good network so you can dodge the CV screen

[night abyss]

Ok and what's a lawyer suppose to say exactly?

[ivory sluice]

what resources do you use for networking? it seems to be harder once you leave school

[near ocean]

Referrals

[ivory sluice]

like i mean, in school you have events and stuff sponsored by companies

[near ocean]

I have so many friends that could get me a job, from uni and from home

[dense mesa]

Just talk to people on linkedin and take interest in what they do

[ivory sluice]

right now my network is basically current coworkers (whose careers i don't aspire to emulate) and pydis basically

[vast shoal]

I don't really have a network either, but if you have an attractive LinkedIn profile you get spammed with offers.

[ivory sluice]

do you do those proficiency quizzes on linkedin by the way?

[night abyss]

How bout fuck you and your passive aggressiveness? How's that for networking count???

[dense mesa]

bye bye

[ivory sluice]

!ban 585855001394675763

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @night abyss permanently.

[vast shoal]

I did do a few, but I don't think they are significant.

But it's not a lot of effort to do them, so you might as well, I suppose.

[ivory sluice]

fisher attributes his first job offer to those, so they mayyyy have some effect

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I'm not saying I know they can't be helpful, but I don't think they are what's making the difference in my case.

[ivory sluice]

true he had very valuable niche knowledge and background

[vast shoal]

I'm sure if you don't have a ton of credentials already, it probably doesn't hurt to have a bunch of those to flesh it out a bit.

[red blaze]

Doesn't a great linkedin profile include an already existing network?

[ivory sluice]

wdym?

[red blaze]

For your profile to look amazing, didn't it need you to show off lots of connections and activity?

@vast shoal

[opal condor]

i'm working on a bot

[vast shoal]

I don't think so. I'm hardly ever active, I just keep it up to date. I tend to accept connection requests from coworkers and schoolmates, but that's it.

[red blaze]

I thought about it myself

[vast shoal]

This is a channel for career discussions and the world of work.

If you want to discuss other topics, please use the appropriate channel.

[opal condor]

that counts does it not

[vast shoal]

#discord-bots for example

[opal condor]

not discord bot 😐

[vast shoal]

Ok. How does a bot relate to Python careers and the world of work?

[red blaze]

To solve the career problems we discussing. But back to the problem now. As mina was saying, after school you can end up with your coworkers and your pydis people only lol
Of course I think we can expand with some socializing. But at the end of the day, if you've already got a network of connections to school people, it's not The Shining LinkedIn profile getting you attention but traditional networks and privilege. (not a bad thing just worth noticing the difference is not a linked in profile lol)

[vast shoal]

I mean, you can find work through friends and old college buddies, but in software I don't really think that's necessary.

[red blaze]

I agree. Just noting the difference, and exploring how networks expand naturally

[ivory sluice]

hm, my original question was more like how does one expand their network beyond their old school network? what if i have no relationship with them anymore or their careers are completely irrelevant to what i'm aiming for?

this is another hidden advertisement for "go to school" i guess because it's an opportunity to be in contact very heavily with recruiters. bonus points for you if you actually know what direction you want your career to go in from such an early age of 18-20

[vast shoal]

Maybe you can get in touch with local developer gatherings.

Like, go to hackerspaces or user groups or whatever they are called.

[dense mesa]

If it were me in that position, I would look at whoever comes up on my feed, interact with posts related to SWE, find more people to talk to, etc

[ivory sluice]

pydis field trip to pycon!

[vast shoal]

If you get involved there, I'm sure you'll get to know other professional developers sooner or later.

If they like you I'm sure they won't mind recommending you when their employers are hiring.

I often get asked by my employers if I know anybody who's competent and looking and I don't really know anyone.

[ivory sluice]

hah really??

[vast shoal]

Yeah, like, all the time.

[ivory sluice]

bc everyone is happy where they are? or you don't know any competent people?

[vast shoal]

I don't know anyone who lives around here who I believe in.

I mean, not like I have a ton of dumbass friends who all want me to recommend them, but more like, they're not trying to be professional devs.

[ivory sluice]

and this is on linkedin you're suggesting? (btw what country are you in?)

[red blaze]

Without existing connections, who's projects would you ask about on linked in (transfer from another network)?

Just seems like LinkedIn is a tool that increases access for people that already have it and create some new barrier for people that don't

And for people to find hookups from old high school friends like when Facebook first came out

Off topic, sorry

[vast shoal]

How is it creating a new barrier?

[red blaze]

Expectations

So a new applicant and a non - tenacious recruiter can never cross paths

Honestly, this doesn't matter if you have lots of hard skills and projects. it's only an issue for people trying to break in to a new field

[vast shoal]

You're saying if LinkedIn didn't exist, you would be noticed by recruiters more as an entry-level applicant? I'm not sure I understand how that works.

[red blaze]

I'm saying that when we tell people it's easy, just comment on people's projects, we're not being fair to those who don't know where to start. Also, when we tell someone, just make a great linked in profile, we're ignoring the actual obstacles behind the scenes, like building a network, developing a specialization, etc

Linked in is just Microsoft Facebook

[vast shoal]

I mean, yeah, telling someone that "Just create a LinkedIn profile and you'll get a job in no time!" is obviously not accurate, there's more to it than that. But I think overall the existence of LinkedIn causes more entry-level applicants to find jobs quicker. If there's a problem with misinformation, then, well, that's the problem, not LinkedIn.

[vast shoal]

There's probably a lot of fluff on there that mainly just wastes people's time, like with any social network, but I think it's a bit reductionist to claim that it's all fluff and that it provides no real benefits.

[red blaze]

No one ever said, you can't get a job without an indeed profile lol

Too much power. Too much trust.

[vast shoal]

It's obviously not the case that you can't get a job without a LinkedIn profile, but it's very little effort to create one and it's quite likely that it'll improve your chances, so you might as well do it.

[craggy wave]

For what it's worth, I found my current job via LinkedIn

And it was my first job in the industry, as I made a career switch

[red blaze]

You are both making my point

[vast shoal]

What point is that?

[red blaze]

Centralized power is not good for this kind of economy

[craggy wave]

I'm not exactly arguing for or against anyone's specific point, but I'm just adding my two cents on the topic of finding jobs via LinkedIn.

[red blaze]

Haha I'm not arguing the reality or saying rebel. I'm just saying understand what it is

[vast shoal]

So your argument is not that LinkedIn makes it harder to find a job as an entry-level applicant, it's that LinkedIn is bad because it's large and monopolizing the online recruitment industry?

[red blaze]

No not really

All I was saying is that it increases already existing access to make money in the middle. That's its function. It is not designed to help new people enter a field. This matters little to people who write Python because that in itself is a hard skill and gives you access to many online communities.

[vast shoal]

That might very well be true, but is that a problem for anyone? Sure, LinkedIn benefits the most, and senior people benefit more than junior people, but junior and entry-level people do benefit.

[red blaze]

Trickle down

[vast shoal]

Ok. What does that mean?

[red blaze]

The system you describe.. Trickle down benefits

Nvm, I didn't mean to put you on the argument path. Ive used linkedin. I wasn't saying anything is "bad"

You get it, you're okay with it. We can move on lol

[vast shoal]

As you wish.

For the record, I'm not doing this because I'm miffed about our previous conversation or anything, but please save memes and gifs for off-topic, and only if they are relevant to the ongoing conversation there.

[red blaze]

I thought it was

As you wish, no one's miffed, relaxing cat thank you

[vast shoal]

Yes, I agree, but they are not allowed in on-topic channels.

So you satisfied the second rule but not the first.

[red blaze]

Cool. You know you can disable them right

[vast shoal]

Yes, but that's not the issue.

[red blaze]

Save your some typing?

[vast shoal]

I'm a moderator, so I enforce server policies.

This is a server policy, not my personal preference.

[red blaze]

Yes I mean why not just disable gifs then so you have less work haha nvm do what you do

[vast shoal]

If you do want to discuss server policies, you can do so freely in #community-meta.

Now or in the future.

[red blaze]

Not at all, hence the "nvm"

[vast shoal]

I got it, just saying.

[red blaze]

thank you for the information :)

[red blaze]

I want to add. For anyone new to the market, I was just making a theoretical argument at scale that you don't have to worry about. I don't want to have given bad advice. Get online and start making connections!

[dense mesa]

Yes, I'm in the UK

[dense mesa]

In terms of a career I don't see that as a barrier whatsoever

[dense mesa]

'not being fair to those who don't know where to start'

[ocean ledge]

i mean it's pretty easy, just jump on linkedin

i don't see how that can be misconstrued

skills yes, connections-- helpful, but not a dealbreaker if you don't

[dense mesa]

It's easy to make a LinkedIn profile, it's difficult to get skills, network and flesh it out

[ocean ledge]

yes, which is why i don't see how it is a barrier

considering it is an optional middleman

[red blaze]

italicizing optional doesnt make it so. there is much emphasis put on linkedin

[dense mesa]

I think the point people have implicitly been making is that it's almost always better to play the LinkedIn game and figure this stuff out for yourself than not to

[ocean ledge]

i mean, sure, kinda, but it's also not even a hard game? just make a profile, and then apply for jobs

ez pz, no game theoretic stuff involved

occasionally recruiters message you, that's about it

[dense mesa]

Why would you need game theory

[red blaze]

lol

[ocean ledge]

don't worry about it

[dense mesa]

Just gets tiring having conversations on this server when people start derailing them with random stuff

Pretty obvious I was talking about game in a different sense

[red blaze]

no.. game theory is what i was doing

[dense mesa]

Sorry but which part of this was game theory

Just confusing since I'm scrolling up through the chat and not seeing anything which represents a game model or calculation

👍

[ivory sluice]

we can move on please

[red blaze]

trying..

[ivory sluice]

do don't try ;)

[red blaze]

lol litterally am

how to get in to a completely new field. i think specific communities is a good start. like kaggle if youre doing analysis

[ocean ledge]

fwiw, when i was new (and by new, i mean "what the hell is a loop") i didn't really think about "trying to break in the field" or something-- i mostly just cared about learning stuff

[red blaze]

this is what i was hoping someone would say . stop looking for a job and find something you want to learn about

the communities and networks emerge naturally when you search

[ocean ledge]

discord mods are useless? who ever would have thought

[ivory sluice]

!mute 760734712125456406 inv

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @dusty lava until <t:1639856933:f> (59 minutes and 59 seconds).

[near ocean]

Youre both welcome to leave and start your own communities if you have issues with moderation

[ivory sluice]

@ocean ledge @red blaze please open a modmail report next time if you want to help, otherwise kindly skip the commentary

[ocean ledge]

oh please

[vapid jay]

Ok. People. I been muling over with python for over half a year. Add django to that. My question is: can I get some recruitment tasks from you? I would use them to figure out am I capable of not wasting my and people's time while trying to apply for a young python whatever's on the table.

I just don't want to make a fool of myself while trying to land the first job in the field.

[ocean ledge]

what is a recruitment task?

[vapid jay]

Something-something a friend got asked to do some really basic stuff, but it was tricky.

[storm harness]

um sorry to ask but what does that mean i am new to english sorry

[red blaze]

practical judgment

[storm harness]

thankyou very much

[ivory sluice]

you should be willing to make a fool of yourself when job hunting and when taking risks in general. have you looked at job listings and what they're asking for? compare to your skillset and see what jobs you're eligible for, or "within reach" for

[vapid jay]

I don't want to make too much of a fool of myself, then. I have, but they either crave experience, which I don't have, or are as generic and vague as anything can be.

[ivory sluice]

if they're asking for 1-2 years of experience, still apply. job listings are HR wishlists and often not hard requirements

[vapid jay]

Ok. Thanks. Jesus. HR wishlist. I haven't head that in, like, never.

[ivory sluice]

wdym? i meant: job listing descriptions are often a very broad list of requirements that hiring teams write with the hopes of getting candidates that hit some of the marks, not all.

so if you meet some or more of the requirements, you should still strongly consider applying, while working on meeting those other requirements as a long-term side project

[red blaze]

unless theyre trollin ya i think you just gave them some hope haha 👍 excuse my commentary

[vapid jay]

Thanks. I will give it a try.

[red blaze]

you got this

[ocean ledge]

my first job out of school asked for 3+ years of experience, which i don't have

decent hiring managers can usually figure out if someone has the capacity to learn something they don't already know

[vapid jay]

is it worth learning rust? ik the job oppertunities atm for rust is very bad, but what about 3-4 years from now? if i learn it from today, i will graduate from highschool in 2-3 years, and then hopefully go to uni, but will it be worth learning rust for the future as a career

[ocean ledge]

dunno-- lots of promising fun languages never take off, while others keep chugging along because of some kind of developer-momentum. no one knows what the future of a language will be like

but if you like rust and think it's worth learning than just learn it-- you can always switch languages when you need to find a job

[vapid jay]

yo guys i'm 13 and i want to do be a software/hardware developer when i'm older, I heard the field is very competitive and challenging to be ontop of the competition, is this true?

[vast shoal]

I'd say you can't really waste your time learning new languages. Once you become experienced enough, picking up new languages will be something you can do in a matter of weeks, so rather than thinking about whether a given language can land you a job in the future, try to think in terms of whether a given language can teach you something about programming in general if you try to learn it.

In terms of that, I think learning Rust is a good idea.

[gritty rivet]

It's true, but you're starting a lot younger then many people who make it. If you are persistent I'm sure you will succeed! Just focus on learning and exploring whatever you find interesting for now, then in a few years you can start thinking about planning for university. For now definitely don't worry about your future career. That part will fall into place when the times comes!

[summer roost]

Don't underestimate pydis for networking. I'm pretty sure if I needed a new job, I could land one pretty quickly by just talking to people I know from here, even setting aside my other networks

[glass isle]

ill pay anyone for two problems to solve for me

[summer roost]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[summer roost]

People who've gone to university to study computer science or electrical engineering or computer engineering don't tend to have much trouble at all landing a job in the field, from what I've seen.

[vapid jay]

I just enjoy writing code and projects

been doing it for like 18 months?

[summer roost]

I definitely agree with dowcet. You're young, focus on learning stuff, not on what you're gonna do for money as an adult. If computers are still what interests you most in 5 years, get a university education in it and you should have no trouble getting a job.

[vapid jay]

thanks and yeah i hope to still be interested in programming in 5 years

[summer roost]

It's not so likely that you'll totally lose interest, but it's not impossible that you find something else that's even more interesting to you

[gritty rivet]

True, and whatever else you do find you're interested in, you can probably apply programming to it if you want to.

So really, just keep doing what you enjoy :)

[teal shoal]

Good evening, what channel is for asking questions when struggling with exercise etc. ?

Because I need for my exam scheduled on December 22nd.

[rain walrus]

exactly, this is the most intersting thing about programming, it is just a whole new world of way of doing things, people dont understand, but the world has really changed !

[summer roost]

See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[teal shoal]

Thank you

[smoky quest]

To add to what was said:

• The team/company has a need. So they list them. But they aren't stupid enough to think there will always be the perfect candidate with the very exact set of skills and experience they need. So It's more like a cost function. You know backend and django but don't know flask? Then let's talk anyway since picking up flask after django is not gonna be a big deal
• You will make a fool of yourself during the first few interviews. Everyone does. While you can prepare for some questions (ex: leetcode), you can't fake or read on the experience of being in an interview. There is a stressful component and you may be surprised by some of the questions. So pick a a few jobs/companies you don't care about and apply to see how it goes. And them rejecting you has no bearing on your skills, because again, you may be awesome but you aren't a great fit for their needs. So don't worry about failures

[vapid jay]

Thanks, guys

[simple maple]

This is golden advice

[dry sapphire]

also physical/mental state is important going into an interview; do your best to be well rested, hydrated, etc.. in general I do pretty well in technical interviews but there was this one time I was quite burnt out and I got asked a mega easy question (basically how to identify whether two nodes in a tree have a common ancestor) and I spent 30 min extremely confused

[vapid jay]

Is learning django and a tiny bit of html and css enough to work professionally as a back-end developer? If not, to what degree would I need to familiarize myself with front-end technologies? I have been learning back-end with Django for about 2 weeks now, so total beginner here

[smoky quest]

Check out https://roadmap.sh/. You don't need everything on it, but it should give you some pointers

[gritty rivet]

Look at job listings in your area, but I've definitely talked to a number of people who work with Django professionally and know very little about front end.

That too, https://roadmap.sh/backend and https://roadmap.sh/python specifically

[smoky quest]

note also that, at the moment, the market for entry level is pretty rough. So you will need to demonstrate quite a bit, including polished projects, especially without a degree

[vapid jay]

I plan on getting a degree but by rough you mean it's hard to get an entry level job right? If so, then yeah I've heard. Hopefully I can build up a nice portfolio before graduating 😅

[vapid jay]

Thank you, I will read the sources you linked below

[smoky quest]

getting a degree will make it dramatically easier. But yeah, there are a lot of applicants

[vapid jay]

got it

[smoky quest]

also if you are at school, I would focus less on getting a job now, and more on succeeding your degree now.
The most successful students are typically the ones with side projects and who go deeper than the limited hours teachers have to cover subjets

[vapid jay]

Yeah I was just curious about what the future holds, I'm definitely not looking to getting a job now. Though I was consdering doing an internship my junior year (high school)

So I need to build up some experience for that

[smoky quest]

A successful engineer is so much more than a code monkey, be it frontend or backend or other

[smoky quest]

if you are still in high school, don't worry about it then. Just have fun and learn and try things. The field is so broad

[vapid jay]

Alright, thanks again

[tawdry storm]

What is typically the difference between a staff and senior engineer? Which one is higher up on the chain?

[smoky quest]

Staff is higher. More and broader responsibilities.
You can see some more details there:

• https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ic5_staff_software_engineer.html
• https://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder (see the link to the google spreadsheet at the bottom)
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1736417916

[ivory sluice]

woah i would not have guessed that

[smoky quest]

the specifics vary from company to company, but it provides a path for growth for engineers who do not wish to manage teams

and similarly to leadership, it comes down to areas of influence. The higher you go, the higher the area of influence (ex: tiny piece of code as juniot engineer -> service -> team -> across teams -> groups -> company)

[tawdry storm]

Thanks!

[ivory sluice]

yeah TIL, had you not answered i would have assumed senior was higher than staff.

[tawdry storm]

I don’t see myself being a manager to be honest. Going higher up the technical chain is what I will strive for, for now.

[smoky quest]

it's worth trying at least once

[ivory sluice]

maybe it's bc i'm more familiar with accounting positions where "staff accountant" is lowest rung of the ladder

[smoky quest]

some companies (like where I am at currently), don't even have staff on their ladder.

Note also the finance companies where VP is like being senior, whereas in tech, it's a lot higher

and if you are in a startup, you can title yourself whatever you want 😉

[ivory sluice]

and what if you're fintech?

[smoky quest]

that's quantum titles

[ivory sluice]

lmao

[smoky quest]

it's all about ego and incentives. A title can determine your next job, your pay band and how people see you.

[orchid ivy]

i don't think titles are a big thing in fintech. it's role-focused. whereas in banks, the titles are based on years of experience.

[vapid jay]

hey

could someone check out my github: https://github.com/Steve-Dusty do these web development django project look good competent enough? I have got a lot of "you never know until you find out". I want an actual answer. If I sent you a github repo with only a print statement, I wouldnt be hired , would I? i'm looking at a general sense. Maybe my projects in my repo are similar to what you do for work. Are they?

[smoky quest]

you have 25 repositories in your account. No one is going to randomly check them out

and that's your actual answer. If you were to just send this on your resume, you would be thrown out right away

I also clicked on a random repo and there was no README nor license. Which is also equivalent to instant reject

[vapid jay]

fuck wong channel

[dense mesa]

If you know it's the wrong channel maybe delete the message

[blazing merlin]

Hi I wana get job. But I’m user of ipad. And I’m using replit. I wana use laptop. But I don’t have

[midnight valve]

IPad isn't very suitable for programming

although it is possible, a lot of tools wouldn't work and it would be slow

so most jobs require you to have/use a computer/laptop

however if you're really willing to take programming seriously, investing in a laptop is not a dumb idea

[blazing merlin]

Ok. How much laptop. Should I invest?

[midnight valve]

yes you should probably invest in at least a laptop

[dense mesa]

@blazing merlin you can buy a refurbished notebook for relatively cheap, like $50-200USD

[vapid jay]

discord.py…

[thorn mirage]

Is there a Data Scientist here who can help me with career guidance?

[buoyant seal]

I am not data scientist, but I can give you the roadmap https://towardsdatascience.com/data-science-learning-roadmap-for-2021-84f2ba09a44f

[prisma wharf]

Cheers man, that was helpful to me also

Hello btw 😂

[viscid bane]

Any suggestion on website to find entry job for django developer. Most of what are on job boards are always senior position. I am looking for entry position in Django development.

[shadow moss]

Look around, it's also very location dependent. I'd pick up another backend language/framework as well.

[tardy condor]

gimme a roadmap for AI-ML with python tooo please

would be really really really helpful

[shadow moss]

That towards data science page had some guidance, Also, your college might have some classes in it as well.

[tardy condor]

cool I'll look into it

[shadow moss]

note, the path to AI/ML is through college for most

[tardy condor]

damnit

[valid bear]

Hey Hi 👋!)

[ocean ledge]

99% of life is easier if you get an education

[rough patrol]

Is there anyone who can voice me?
I have an idea but don't know its possible or not

[vapid jay]

Perhaps do some free-lancing and save up for a decent laptop. The Lenovo IdeaPad 1 14 is a very good laptop for how much it costs, so you could look into saving up for that. Best of luck.

[ebon lotus]

can someone explain me the output in steps. I'm new in this server

[ocean ledge]

look at the sidebar and see what channel you're in

[sturdy rune]

fuckkkkkkkk

[smoky quest]

For technical questions, it will be simpler to go to #❓｜how-to-get-help .
This channel is named #career-advice and is about career discussions 🙂

[ebon lotus]

Sorry im new in this server cauz i have exam day after tomorrow on this subject. And this server is the most complicated i've seen on discord so got confused

[tropic echo]

Hey all, just curious, I'm a sophomore in high school and I love learning about Python, what are some cool careers that I could use Python skills to make a difference in the world with?

I know that the military has hackers and people to fly drones and do cybersecurity stuff, but lets say if I wasn't joining the military...what other careers are there?

[dense mesa]

Using python modules to do machine learning in a medical context

[tropic echo]

So as in using AI to do medical stuff like surgeries??? I didn't even know that was possible lol wow

[dense mesa]

Not specifically surgeries but yes

One thing that's pretty interesting at the moment is taking the idea of TPM (total productive maintenance in manufacturing) and doing that in medicine using predictive models

[tropic echo]

That's really cool, thank you : )

[dense mesa]

So rather than a human coming in for a medical appointment every 6-12 months, their medical data is analysed and a new variable appointment frequency decided from that

You can also do predictive modelling for biological cells, you don't need to have a background in biology as a lot of it can be modelled with maths

https://www.kaggle.com/search?q=medicine+tag%3A"medicine"

That's just medicine, you could use pandas in python to look at farming seasons and which conditions are most optimal to grow in

[dense mesa]

It's fantastic you're thinking about this stuff now, if you want any more suggestions just ping :)

[deft star]

Hi

[signal oasis]

does anyone have an idea of what level of skill would be expected from a college sophomore in a technical interview for a software engineering company?

[elder beacon]

I'm 25, self taught and I got an offer for a software engineer but with a 30~40% pay cut(currently in non tech job). I guess it would be worth it to switch if I can hustle and make up for the cut in a few years I suppose?

[smoky quest]

You can write pretty much anything with python. So that opens up the door to almost any type of software.
Note that helping people can take various forms and is not just restricted to charities. And similarly, there are software which are open source for the purpose or making access to some technology more open

[smoky quest]

See:

• https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/overview.html
• Spreadsheet at the bottom of https://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder

[smoky quest]

Depends. 30-40% 10kusd or 30-40% of 100kusd.
Also depends on cost of living and jobs you are leaving and new job

[dense mesa]

Personally I would take it to get my foot on the ladder, then switch to a higher paying job once I have a couple years experience

@elder beacon would you be able to speak a bit about your self taught journey? I would be interested to hear as I'm trying to switch myself

[graceful mason]

You'll be hard pressed to have a successful programming career by restricting yourself to one language - even something like data science can use multiple languages (e.g. R, Julia)

[dense mesa]

Python is a great beginner language, especially for someone in high school

[tropic echo]

Thanks Anz, I definitely want to expand my programming knowledge but I want to get pretty good at Python first.

One more question-what is big data? I've heard it mentioned but idk what it really means.

[ocean ledge]

and realistically-- who uses R lmao

[dense mesa]

Big data is a pretty broad term to just mean "we have more data here than we can store on a few physical devices"

[smoky quest]

on the math/stats side, there are things R can easily do with some libraries that python does not have (yet). So ymmv

[ocean ledge]

such as?

[dense mesa]

A lemonade stand for example could probably keep all of its customer data on on hard drive and that would be fine

But a large company has lots of data in lots of formats across lots of devices

[smoky quest]

I don't have a list from the top of my head, but some econometric stuff or advanced arima related stuff

[signal oasis]

a business major i know learned R for finance so that’s one thing i guess

[ocean ledge]

that isn't really a good metric

[tropic echo]

Oh ok...I think I heard it in reference to like how some companies sell their user data

[tropic echo]

Gotcha👍👍👍

[dense mesa]

Econometrics is pretty synonymous with R

[smoky quest]

you can sell your users' data without having a lot of it 😉

[tropic echo]

True 😂

[graceful mason]

Often the data will be uploaded to the cloud (like GCS) and you can analyse it to identify trends with SQL

[dense mesa]

Yeah so a company with "big data" is going to want to have insights into that data (called data mining), and these insights are of value to other companies, such as advertiser's

[tropic echo]

That sounds kinda cool

[smoky quest]

Note that big data is also more than just insights. It can be about all sorts of data as long as it's too large than what would fit on regular machines. Ex: social networks

[tropic echo]

Not selling it but analyzing it and using it to predict stuff

[ocean ledge]

all the cool math/stats people moved towards PPLs

[dense mesa]

That's what I said and I specifically mentioned data mining to keep is separate from big data

[smoky quest]

IoT is also starting to generate tons of data as well

[ocean ledge]

be a bayesian, be better (plays national anthem)

[tropic echo]

Wait so is data mining like a sub division or big data or are they not related at all

[smoky quest]

yep, I totally agree with you.
The point I was trying to make is that it also goes beyond analytics. It could be used for more regular backends as well, especially when the number of users/machines grows large

[ocean ledge]

they're all buzzwords that you should not think about

all that matters in life is "my data doesn't fit in memory wut shud i do"

[dense mesa]

AWS has some cool stuff with data lakes coming in 2022

[graceful mason]

It is really cool - my internship was at Ocado where they've got a few thousand bots each generating 2-4gb of logs an hour (all of which are uploaded to the cloud, separated by type of log). I was writing firmware for the bots but a significant part of my job involved analysing that data to identify how much of an impact an issue is having, or what impact my changes might have on all the bots

[dense mesa]

Unless they get asked in an interview?

[ocean ledge]

if you get asked what is "big data" in a technical interview, run

[tropic echo]

Jeez that sounds like a massive responsibility lol that's really cool

[smoky quest]

that's a pretty standard thing

[dense mesa]

We did a case study on the robotics in ocado

[graceful mason]

Oh cool, what sort of stuff did you look at?

[ocean ledge]

a standard thing is "give me some differences between hadoop and spark"

[smoky quest]

that's way too narrow. What if the candidate is familiar with big data area but not specifically hadoop and spark? It's healthier to start with a top down approach and go from there

[ocean ledge]

or "do you like the lambda architecture? why not"

[dense mesa]

Something to do with the current configuration of their general robots and making them able to be collaborative 'cobots' which can work alongside humans. Like the ones that bring baskets for packers

[ocean ledge]

who's hiring data scientists who don't know any actual technologies related to it?

[tropic echo]

Big
Fancy
Words lol

[smoky quest]

big data is way larger than data scientist and is also not limited to either hadoop or spark 😉

[prime pivot]

Weird queston but where Python can be used, job-wise? I've been learning Python for almost a year now but have no clear direction. Like I know that Python is not great in game development and people suggest JS over Python for web. So the only popular path I know is data analyst/scientist.

[graceful mason]

I think you're talking about the ones I worked on? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE

They definitely aren't interacting with humans though so I'm not sure

[smoky quest]

Asking about specific differences between hadoop and spark is like asking the differences between flask and tornado when the candidate has used django

[dense mesa]

Yes those, it was mostly to do with the health and safety/compliance stuff of having robots alongside humans

[tropic echo]

I think mainly data science yes, but it can be used in chbersecurity as well
Though I'm very new to programming so don't quote me on that

[ocean ledge]

that's an example, but the point stands

i don't remember anyone i know being asked questions like "what is big data", since it literally sounds like something you'd say in an elevator to the HR staff

[smoky quest]

There are a lot of:

• automation and devops
• backend
• data science

But being a pretty generic language, it could also be used for games, although it wouldn't be appropriate for AAA type of games

[ocean ledge]

a more generic question might be something like "describe some examples of distributed systems, and what problems they solve"

[smoky quest]

you could definitely use it as a conversation starter. It's a mean to an end, not an end in itself

[dense mesa]

That's anyone you know, not everyone

[smoky quest]

I also tend to prefer open ended questions to give opportunities to shine to candidates and not miss something due to the phrasing

[graceful mason]

Development is real quick on those bots because they aren't allowed to work around humans. There's a lot of safety systems in place to make sure that humans never come in contact, so we could make changes to whatever we want without having to prove those changes aren't a danger to people

[prime pivot]

are automation and devops pretty popular paths or not so much? Tbh I don't even know about these job types (googling)

[tropic echo]

Well thanks for the advice you guys and have a nice day / night;)

[dense mesa]

Yeah that's what we went through, and this as well: https://www.iso.org/standard/51528.html

[smoky quest]

they are quite popular

[ocean ledge]

everyone needs a devops guy

you'll hold no glory, but you will be stable

[smoky quest]

also note that a programming language like python is not an end in itself. It's a mean to an end such as developping a product, supporting tools, etc.
A good software engineer is a lot more than a code monkey

[ocean ledge]

yeah, you're mostly a meeting monkey

and a "constantly trying to shit on your product manager" monkey

[signal oasis]

thanks. i read through the "engineer 1" position descriptions and it's pretty helpful

[smoky quest]

I didn't say manager :p

[prime pivot]

ok cool, will look into it. I am just dealing with C#(Unity) but started learning Python a year ago (just in case, exploring) but actually maybe I will try to stick to C# DevOps, if possible, I need to do some research.

[smoky quest]

are you in HS?

[prime pivot]

hs?

[smoky quest]

high school

[prime pivot]

ah, no lol, graduated from uni with bachelors in compsci but most of CS courses were terrible and hardly learned anything.

[signal oasis]

@smoky quest any idea about specific python topics I'd need to know for an internship? For example, should I look over how memory is managed in python or any other specific knowledge?

otherwise i'd say im pretty well prepared based on that spreadsheet

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh/

[ocean ledge]

it depends on the internship

what is your goal?

[signal oasis]

software engineering company focused on AI and natural language processing

I have a technical interview soon so I'm tryin to gauge what I should know

[ocean ledge]

i don't know why you would need to know much about memory management in python for an AI internship

[signal oasis]

i just said that as an example of some specific knowledge

I probably wouldnt actually need to know anything about python's memory management

[ocean ledge]

i know what when we interviewed our interns we asked them questions like "have you heard of mapreduce? how would you <do some task>"

we asked what CS/math courses they took

and how deep into topics they went

[signal oasis]

ah thanks that's helpful

[ocean ledge]

but again, it depends on the company

[signal oasis]

What does yours do?

[ocean ledge]

interns aren't expected to do any actual work-- they do specific projects given by a mentor, who kinda just track their progress and help them learn stuff

and then they present it at the end of their internship (at least summer interns)

i work in healthcare AI

so our interns are usually people who also have a medical/biotech background

it's also interesting since most of our interns actually don't know anything about medical data (like lab testing) so our technical questions are almost purely about dealing with certain types of distributed systems and NLP

[signal oasis]

would those questions be fairly common in other non-healthcare companies focused on AI?

[ocean ledge]

i strongly believe so

[elder beacon]

30-40% of 35~37k usd, cost of living is a bit high but living with parents to compensate

[ocean ledge]

as those were similar to questions i was asked when i was first job searching

[ocean ledge]

is this... in the us? or what country

[ocean ledge]

for context, i applied for ML engineering positions, so those were the kinds of questions encountered

[elder beacon]

I taught myself python to automate things at my job and tried a lot of different things at my job(data analysis, web scraping, automation) but eventually settled on web development and narrow down on python 1.5 years into my self taught journey. Got too scared and not confident enough to commit to one thing so I wasted a lot of time which annoys me.

[smoky quest]

that seems extremely low for a software position, assuming USA

[elder beacon]

South Korea. I converted the currency to usd.

[ocean ledge]

then that makes sense

[smoky quest]

oh, I don't know anything about the South Korean market. So can't speak about it

[elder beacon]

It's a 1 year old start up based in Australia but it hires 100% remotely

[ocean ledge]

software engineers don't actually make too much in SK unless you're working at a chaebol

[ivory sluice]

hi juan! remember me :P

[signal oasis]

oh cool i'm pretty sure I'd be learning a lot about ml at this internship so ill check out those topics

[elder beacon]

hey wassup

[ocean ledge]

good luck with your interview! the ML space is pretty exciting, but be sure to err towards the engineering side more than the analytics side

[smoky quest]

Ask them about it too. They will be more than happy to give you a list 😉

[elder beacon]

Apparently australian companies pay a lot more but considering this is a start up it makes sense they are paying so low which kinda sucks. I have to hope that they get funding and the company does well.

[smoky quest]

do you get some equity too?

[ocean ledge]

i mean, that's low for a startup as well

[signal oasis]

thanks and yea it's pretty cool. Why engineering rather than analytics?

[elder beacon]

yeah I can get stock options

[ocean ledge]

just call it monopoly money, that's what it is anyway

[ocean ledge]

because there are a billion data scientists whose skillset is literally jupyter notebooks and plotly-- the ones who actually know how to productionize and build infra are the ones that are actually valuable

[elder beacon]

yeah engineering is more fun than analytics

[ocean ledge]

the dream is to get a remote US job and live in SK

[elder beacon]

analytics is 70% data cleaning 20% trying to understand the business question and 10% excel pivot tables/graphs

[elder beacon]

same tbh, US salary but SK cost of living

[signal oasis]

oof. yea i'd rather not be replaceable that easily

[dense mesa]

That's really interesting, thank you for taking the time to speak about it! I've been seeing a lot of Django being mentioned on this server recently, I'm guessing it was that or Flask you settled on?

[ocean ledge]

the correct answer is fastapi

[elder beacon]

I picked Django because I like batteries included opinionated frameworks. But I found out that there are a ton of different ways to do things in Django too so lol.

[dense mesa]

To what question?

[ocean ledge]

to your statement

[dense mesa]

Everything seems to lead to Django, I'll have to learn it. Really hate using JavaScript so could be interesting

[elder beacon]

Flask or Django? The answer is Fast API apparently.

[ocean ledge]

tis true

[dense mesa]

Fair enough. In that case, what's a marketable skill/module an intermediate Python user could learn to be more attractive to recruiters? Web development or any

[ocean ledge]

depends on what job you're trying to get

[dense mesa]

For me, personally and anecdotally, I've enjoyed the data science aspect of Python as it fits in well with my engineering degree, particularly for business analytics

[ocean ledge]

learn a cool library for statistical analysis, like numpyro

[dense mesa]

Sounds good

[forest nymph]

data science

aka python programming

[vapid jay]

how would you recommend for a beginner to get a job programming in python in 2022? thank you

[smoky quest]

get a degree, bootcamp or relevant experience

[vapid jay]

what would qualify as relevant experience?

[smoky quest]

some years doing the type of job you want to do

[vapid jay]

also im working through angela yu's 100 days of code for python right now on udemy

well i wouldnt really be a beginner if i had years of experience

[smoky quest]

I understand it can be a catch-22 sometimes. But that's also not the problem of the companies looking to hire people

[vapid jay]

yeah but i'm not a company, i need to find a way to get in somehow

[smoky quest]

for sure. I am just giving you the way the companies think from the other side of the situation

[vapid jay]

yeah i understand that

[smoky quest]

so yeah, continue going through some training material, look at the skills you want on https://roadmap.sh/ and job ads and have some projects to demonstrate these skills

but just to set the right expectations, while nothing is impossible, the lack of degree will definitely make it harder. So be ready to send your resume and applications a lot

[vapid jay]

yeah ive heard about that

i really assume having a ton of projects is the way to go then, since its probably the only real way to demonstrate understanding, im just not sure what projects i should make that are substantial

[smoky quest]

there is a trade off between quality VS quantity. Just be mindful of that though

folks would also assume your projects are how you would code if you were to be hired. So that means they will look for license, nice readme, doc, no swearing, tests, CI/CD, etc.

the more projects, the more time it takes to make these high quality (and maintain them as such)