career-advice

[smoky quest]

from the job's perspective, it will take a few month (rule of thumb is 6months) to be fully ramped up. So that would mean in the best case scenario that right after being operational, you would leave

[dry sapphire]

I told them about that possibility too, and they were still okay with it

but tbh I don’t need 6 months; 2-3 weeks is enough

[smoky quest]

It's way too early to worry about that. Spend your time discovering the field and trying different things so you can see what you like or dislike. The normal route is then a CS degree after high school.

[dry sapphire]

which might sound p ridiculous but @ all the places I have been (and it was in my tech lead’s feedback that got me promoted in the first place) it’s actually the case

[smoky quest]

that's optimistic but that is never the case

There are terminology, getting to know who owns what, who to talk to, why were some things done a specific way, processes...

[dry sapphire]

I solo delivered a critical feature 1.5 months after joining this project (and it’s in production)

[smoky quest]

right, not trying to be negative, but being able to contribute and deliver things does not mean fully ramped up

[dry sapphire]

it’s not a super big feature, but it was an important one

[dry sapphire]

yeah, I know I am defo more productive now than I was @ 1 month in

so not FULLY, but I think I adapt etc. faster than most people (of course you’re always still learning)

[smoky quest]

but we are getting side tracked. Are the domains the same between the two?

[dry sapphire]

but anyways it doesn’t really matter because I told them I might have to leave 9 months in and they were like “it’s okay still want you”

[dry sapphire]

one is a bank and the other is a roboadvisor, so reasonably similar.

the big difference is the former is pure Kotlin and the latter might be any combo of Scala, Kotlin, and perhaps Python

[smoky quest]

and other technologies?

[dry sapphire]

but now that you talk about it, I can defo convince my tech lead to give me more responsibility @ my current place immediately

[smoky quest]

yeah, the time not spent onboarding is time you can spend going deeper or wider

[dry sapphire]

yeah, that’s true. I think the biggest part of what you said is that it’s not just dependent on my learning ability

but also on building trust and confidence

[smoky quest]

exactly

[dry sapphire]

I actually booked a 1:1 with my tech lead in a few hours to tell him this (because consultancy he’s not my employer technically so I’m hoping he can give me more balanced advice)

[smoky quest]

your manager won't be worried about how smart you are. They will be worried about if they can trust you to take care of things on your own

But if you are good, you can demonstrate and gain that trust faster 🙂

On the other hand, going for a new job makes you meet new people and seeing different things and different ways to go about problems

[dry sapphire]

which is important too. and I worry I’ll stagnate here

but I’ll talk to my tech lead first and see what can be done

the worst case would be not getting accepted to any universities, and then I’d probz want to move anyway because this isn’t a super challenging project

most of my growth in coming months here will be in terms of breadth anyway

like what I foresee is more exposure to the devops side.

[smoky quest]

worst case, you can also try to get your current job to pay up by telling them how you got something offering 2x as much and how you would love to stay at your current company but the difference in compensation makes it very difficult

if they say yes, then you can pick without worrying about the $$$. IF they say no, then you can transition to the other place

[dry sapphire]

that is where the 15% came from. consultancy so they just don’t have that much budget

[smoky quest]

compensation is more than that. You can ask for projects, days off, hours arrangement or literally anything

[dry sapphire]

and I admit I’m super impatient? I’m already pushing 30 and I started late (compulsory military service + gap year) which just sucks

[smoky quest]

It's probably easier for them to provide non-monetary benefits

[dry sapphire]

not common here 😔 or rather to be precise, I already have flex working (did 7 AM to 2-ish PM yesterday), and extra leave and other stuff is more or less unprecedented

but they really don’t care where I am as long as stuff gets done so how much I am actually on the work computer is quite flexible (been working more by choice because bored recently)

the flipside is - am I getting lazy and stagnating? I think about this a lot

[smoky quest]

that could be a reason for changing if they can't provide challenges and growth

[dry sapphire]

oh, and one thing I really hate about this place, even though it might be very minor to many people; I have to go through two VM layers to code, and sometimes it’s just SO IRRITATING that some hotkeys don’t work or it lags or UGH

like I get facing intellectual challenges and even people challenges by why do I have to fight my environment too?????

[smoky quest]

sop for large and slow corps. Will happen a lot.

[dry sapphire]

and another thing about this place, I guess? it feels like literally nobody but my tech lead and me care about the codebase.

team of 8 devs and I’m the one suggesting/leading a large part of the refactoring efforts (inherited legacy code) which is just so demoralising because I want to be doing new stuff more, not fixing the dumb things people did

[smoky quest]

yep, that's why startups can beat large corps. They are too slow, too compartmentalized and people aren't incentivized to care

[dry sapphire]

and like SOME OF THAT STUFF IS BEING DONE WRONGLY AGAIN RIGHT NOW! DIDN’T ANYONE LEARN?

[smoky quest]

also if they don't pay as much as other companies, then it's not like they will hire the best and brightest

[dry sapphire]

tbf most of them are from the client’s (bank) side

and I gather banks pay well? but I can’t say for sure. although these are defo not the best and brightest, I will agree

but it’s not like top-tier companies want me right now? I can’t get an interview, even with referrals, which kind of bites

[smoky quest]

If anything I have heard banks are rather slow and outdated. That has also been a common complaint among the candidates I interview from banks

[dry sapphire]

in terms of processes etc.? that’s what I heard too. AND IT IS TRUE! but they pay well, don’t they

[smoky quest]

why not?

[smoky quest]

everything. Which also explains why their websites suck

[dry sapphire]

beats me. I just don’t pass the resume screen

I tried changing it several times (customising for JD, reading about ATS formats), reaching out to internal recruiters directly, etc.

then again I wasn’t hearing back from tier 2-3s before this year so I guess that’s progress 🥲

[smoky quest]

are you in the USA?

[dry sapphire]

nope

[smoky quest]

sg, right?

[dry sapphire]

yeah. which is part of why I wanna take Master’s? networking would probz help a lot career wise.

[smoky quest]

makes sense

[dry sapphire]

😔 thanks for advice and listening to my whining

[smoky quest]

np. Overall, it sounds like it's a good problem to have 🙂

[thorn marten]

🙂

[dense mesa]

Has anyone in the UK gone from doing a STEM (non CS) degree to working with python as a software engineer?

For context, I'm studying general engineering and taking modules in manufacturing and software, wanna do software engineering so I'm applying for CS conversion masters and looking at jobs

[gritty rivet]

Probably. If you want to talk to such a person, searching around on LinkedIn might work

[dry sapphire]

thoughts on working in a bank? do high tech companies generally look with disfavour upon such experience?

[buoyant seal]

conflicting thoughts.

I had former tech lead which 11 years worked in the best bank in our country. He became stagnated. And really not honest in how he works. I feel like he became snake because he was in serpentary.

Checking any other banks, even the best bank has total lack of any proper security. All the top banks in our country are more oriented to client comfort than thinking about security. I have no idea why they trust clients receiving SMS as the ONLY sufficient way to auth. (in my country)

Call me prejudiced, but I suspect that bank can be having all drawbacks of big corporation.

But at the same time, I see that some banks follow the strategy to make small teams of devs, so it should be relatively comfortable to work there. At that does the same bank where my former tech lead came from.

As i said, conflicting opinions. If I would go ever working to bank, I would be certainly asking my questions in how their dev pipeline working, and checking carefully if I would be comfortable there or not during the probation period. It would be certainly in two ways probation.

[summer roost]

Banks tend to have uninteresting tech stacks and lots of technical debt, from what I've heard. But I wouldn't say that work experience at a bank is seen unfavorably.

[buoyant seal]

MM actually yeah, I heard US banks still seek Cobol programmers, right?

[summer roost]

Some big banks still run mainframe software, yeah

[buoyant seal]

Anyway, so in my opinion there should be at least some banks, that use modern stacks.
And at least in some bank departments/sections, there should be small comfortable dev team environments to work
Shrugs More can be found only when asking questions to them.

[dry sapphire]

it’s a p modern stack; I’m cool with what they use

my sole worry is: in the future, will people @ high tech companies think I didn’t do anything challenging solely based on where I worked?

given that it’s neither a startup nor one of the aforementioned high tech companies

[dry sapphire]

it’ll be a pretty small steam, more or less isolated from the bad dev practices of other parts of the bank

[summer roost]

If they did, you probably wouldn't want to work for them.

[smoky quest]

no one is gonna reject you because you happened to have been at a bank. it won't even cross anyone's mind

[summer roost]

If they're pre-judging based on the company you worked at, regardless of the work and skills you mention in your resume, that would be a shitty company.

[smoky quest]

If you had been at a well known far right or anti-* company, or even porn, that may have an impact. But no one is gonna care about it otherwise

[dry sapphire]

okay, thanks!

[dry sapphire]

back to the above topic: my tech lead is also willing to make me an offer, and that’s basically the bank I’m considering.

[smoky quest]

nice! congrats! A matching offer?

[dry sapphire]

more. like I think I could conceivably hit an 80% jump from current? because I told him about the other offer (which is 50% up) and he said they could defo significantly beat that

[smoky quest]

gosh, you were so underpaid

[dry sapphire]

but again, worries about career progression? I think my eventual goal is applied AI research

and I just don’t know if what I’m doing is wise at all because, like you and @summer roost say, banks don’t exactly have the best rep in terms of technology.

even though I won’t be touching weird stuff like COBOL

[smoky quest]

Interviewer don't give a crap about the rep of the company (except extremes again), only about what you have been up to

[dry sapphire]

Kotlin, Mongo, k8s, GitLab CI/CD, etc.

[smoky quest]

yeah, that's definitely modern and you won't have issues with regards to outdated/slow tech

[dry sapphire]

I guess it relates to my experience in general of constantly failing the resume screen @ like Twitter/Google/FB/Apple? it’s super demoralising

[smoky quest]

Did you get it reviewed?

[dry sapphire]

whom would I get it reviewed by 😔

[smoky quest]

you could anonymize it and send a link here

[dry sapphire]

sounds like a good idea. just wasn’t sure if anyone would look at it I guess

[smoky quest]

now you know

[dry sapphire]

will do that while thinking about my next move

[smoky quest]

there is also another career channel active on the server the coding den. other folks do review resumes there as well

[dry sapphire]

thanks again!

[dry sapphire]

will check that out too, thanks

[smoky quest]

for your applications to twitter/fb/google, were they for local offices or US offices?

if the US office, that's normal. With the travel ban, everyone in the US has stopped sponsoring visas. It should restart soon as the travel ban has been lifted a few days ago

[granite oxide]

is there any live python course for free ?

[near ocean]

!resources many

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[vapid jay]

hellllllllllooooooooooooo

[delicate rain]

hellooooooooooo

[dense mesa]

Not sure what you mean by this? This is a career discussion channel so I'm more likely to find someone. What am I even going to search for on linkedin to find such a person?

[barren trout]

yup - my background is non CS as I come from an RF Engineering / Spectrum Engineering domain and have started using Python for EDA and viz since the past 4 years...

[dense mesa]

Ah cool, is this in India by any chance? Did you get into software engineering just by using python for engineering more and more?

@vapid jay #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[gritty rivet]

For example, I just pasted "chemistry python linkedin" in to Google and got back a list of LinkedIn profiles, most of whom have chemistry degrees but became software developers. Even better, many are in my own geographical area. So personally if that were my intended career path, I would be studying those profiles and reaching out to those people to network and learn from them.

[dense mesa]

Not gonna reply to this conversation any more so I'll just say this last thing: this LinkedIn method is considerably longer relative to asking someone on Discord. For comparison:

LinkedIn:
Find a suitable person by searching some random degree keywords
View their profile and decide if they're appropriate for my questions
Send a connection request with a personalised message so they don't insta-reject it
Wait however long (hours, days, even weeks) for them to accept
Send a message with my question once they accept and then wait for them to respond over text

Discord:
Ask in a relevant channel (such as a career discussion one on a Python server)
Get a response in minutes/hours
Instantly be able to chat and converse with that person about further questions

If I'm looking for rapid, active feedback and conversation, trawling LinkedIn for people to chat to is extremely inefficient, especially when I'm asking on such a real-time platform like this

Do appreciate the help and input, it's just not what I'm looking when I'm trying to get a sample/feel of the market and demand

[gritty rivet]

Suit yourself :)

[dry sapphire]

has anyone had experience with managing a team where most of the people (both devs and others) are older and have worked more years than you?

[barren trout]

No I am based in the UK and I found that there were a lot of processes in engineering that could do with automation - including parsing, data mining, ETL, visualisation as well as analytics...so I started to use python for this.

[vapid jay]

@vapid jay@vapid jay@barren aspen This channel is for career discussions related to Python. We have off-topic channels for non-python discussions and help channels (#❓｜how-to-get-help) to get Python help.

[twilit forum]

Not from UK, but I studied Biotech and Im now working as a python dev, I did study a fair bit of python though. There's a fairly large need to model chemical reactions, pharmacodynamics and shit like that. If you have applicable know how learning python to a reasonable level is fairly easy.

That said, the LinkedIn approach suggested to you is a lot better and will yield results more applicable to your situation and maybe even internship opportunities.
If someone reached out to me with similar questions I would absolutely answer. LinkedIn is a much larger network than this server.

[dense mesa]

LinkedIn is the next step after I gauge from the responses here on who to contact and in which roles

[twilit forum]

The short answer is "Yes" then, that transition is not uncommon.

Programming can be and is used to solve tools in most if not all STEM fields

[dawn salmon]

Hello, I was recently interested in going to my local community college for something cyber security related and I was told that Python was a good language to know for cyber security. I was wondering if anyone else thought the same? And for entry level jobs, is it necessary to know? And if anyone is involved with cyber security, I also had a couple questions about that. Thank you!

[silent wing]

so I am getting a course but confused with two of them

which is good

[hexed vapor]

I've been a sec engineer for several years. Python is definitely a good starting language for security. You don't need to go super deep, just be able to use write quick scripts to help automate different things from a security perspective. It's not necessary to know for entry-level jobs but would definitely help on a resume. Most large sec teams are moving towards automation if not there already, so it will become more and more important. you can DM me more questions if you want.

[sage vapor]

The first one is the management of data
The second one is accumulating data

[grand umbra]

what jobs pay very well that i can use with mastering python

im very interested in cyber security

[sage vapor]

You don’t really need to master much about python in the cyber security field

You only need to understand and learn about module and how to automate stuff

But that’s only for the python part if your interested in cyber security I recommend to start with Linux and learn about commands on the shells then learn networking etc etc

[vapid jay]

Official, version, of my W.E.B S.I.T.E ! https://b4b4.netlify.app

[near ocean]

Ok? This isnt on topic for this channel and also probably advertisement

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, I know it's tempting, but they're soooo bad, lol. Pay is crap, even lower when you're not placed with a company, you have to fly around a lot, etc. etc. Then the hidden catch for quitting early is often jarring.

[mortal wedge]

We had a python dev at my company whose last gig was cybersecfor the FBI. Python was involved, but he also did a lot of linux/docker/cmdline stuff.

[regal tundra]

hello im a grad student in an adjacent field and probably want to do tech industry stuff in a couple years when i graduate

[karmic token]

looks like a scam lol

[regal tundra]

im trying to figure out what i might do in my spare time to make that transition not too hard. ive heard leetcode is a thing but am unsure if it's a good use of time or the right way to go about it

i do programming on a pretty daily basis but i suspect it's not with the breadth/discipline/conventions that industry tech people use?

[karmic token]

leetcode is for practicing for interviews

it's actually quite rare to use those concepts in a real world environment

it is a good way to practice general problem solving, but most of the algorithms used to solve the specific problems are pretty strange

general problem solving
i.e. reading and understanding the problem, simplifying it into smaller solvable pieces, and coming up with a step-by-step solution, then optimization

[hot wigeon]

What do you do once you know a good amount about that stuff

[summer roost]

low level programming. If you don't know C, that'd be the next thing to learn.

[oblique granite]

currently i'm in my 2nd year of B.Sc. in Computer Science, n im planning to look for internships in the coming year, 2022 and 2023. i wanted to ask how big of a role does your competitive programming (cp) rank matter when applying for internships? ranks like the number of stars u have in, say, leetcode, codechef.
i wud also appreciate it if i cud get some guidance, stuff like what all qualities do they look for when selecting students for internships, which r the areas i shud focus on while preparing

[smoky quest]

ranks don't matter

Same with github stars or stackoverflow points. These are just vanity metrics.

[balmy spade]

I would go so far as to say if your rank on such a site matters, the place might be hiring for the wrong reasons.

[smoky quest]

What matters is how well you do in interviews. For which leetcode is an important part, but not the whole part. You would be asked questions about projects you did, how much you know about system design and general things.
That said, interviews for internships are still pretty lax since it's still an internship. It depends more on how many candidates they have.

[oblique granite]

could u explain how leetcode plays an important part?

is it for practicing? thats what im doing rn, im learning dsa, say binary trees, then i go to leetcode, sort d problems wid trees tag, n solve them, is it the right way?

[smoky quest]

Most students are still at school with all the algos in mind. So leetcode type questions are a common way to test them and filter them

[oblique granite]

got it, thanks

[smoky quest]

it's still used commonly for jobs later too.
Most people will do some leetcode for 2-5 weeks prior to interviews just to get back in it. But nothing that would require ranks

From the job perspective, competitive programming / leetcode can be useful for hyperlocal tasks such as something specific to 5 lines of codes, but utterly useless for most other tasks which are about how systems interact with each others

[oblique granite]

okay so my focus rn, should me more towards building projects

[smoky quest]

yeah

[oblique granite]

thanks alot

[regal cloud]

Do any of you have experience in quantitative finance and algorithmic trading?

[smoky quest]

in the context of a career and jobs?

[vapid jay]

Working with a time is more helpful than working alone bcs there's always someone to give a hand when you get stuck somewhere.

[dry sapphire]

I must say I don't really see how that's relevant to my question...

[vapid jay]

It's close but still not the correct the answer to your question bcs I'm still studyin' alone

[dry sapphire]

my question was literally "has anyone, as a younger person, managed a team of older people?"

[marsh wind]

Yes it's pretty much my current situation
I am 29 and I have couple guys who are 31ish one guy around 50 and a guy who's younger but with 10 years of experience

So all of them actually worked quite longer than me in industry, though apart from that one guy age difference is not big at all

[dry sapphire]

do you ever have any, like, interpersonal issues with them that you think stem from the age difference?

[marsh wind]

Nope

I know it's a very short response 😂 but we had little it any interpersonal issues,not to mention age related...

[stuck sail]

helllo uguyz

[gritty rivet]

I also part of a team where people at the same professional level vary in age from early 20s to late 40s and would say there are absolutely no disadvantages to this. If anything it adds to the diversity of the team in a positive way

[near ocean]

It might not have disadvantages at the same level but if youre managing older people egos might pop out

I can imagine boomer types not listening to their younger superiors thinking age makes any difference in skill/ability

[regal cloud]

Yes

[sinful gorge]

This doesnt really happen. Engineers are some of the most flexible and adaptable people ive ever met. I love working with the boomers at my company because they have wisdom beyond my years and can provide valulable input. Most older people in those positions just want to code too they would hace been a manager already if they cared about that.

[ivory sluice]

are you a woman? if you are i'd assume that's the cause. source: am woman

edit: i say this half in jest. it's not always the case but it's commonplace enough to consider the possibility

[quartz quail]

I want a tester for desktop app whihc I am making using tkinter in replit DM me for info

[ivory sluice]

wrong channel for this, maybe #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare but idk how responsive users will be

[quartz quail]

Thx

[stone shell]

if im in 10th grade which is mostly 16/yo and not in university/college, can i still get an internship?

[near ocean]

Probably not, internships are usually given out to undergrads or recent graduates

[stone shell]

ah

[sinful gorge]

Have you applied? How would you know if you dont apply or look for internship programs for someone your age???

[stuck sail]

yoyo

[minor bough]

Guys, i changed my ram speed in msconfig and getting now a bluescreen, should i reinstall windows?

[near ocean]

You should read the channel description and try again

[sinful gorge]

Just launch windows in safe mode and see if you can change it back but yes also go to a different channel

[minor bough]

What if i reinstall windows

Works the same right?

[sinful gorge]

Uhh takes way more work?

[minor bough]

Yeah but its okay

[white condor]

Hi guys

I am new to coding

So how are u guys

[ivory sluice]

we're great! but check out #python-discussion for chit chat (python-related)

[white condor]

Ohh ok

[tepid raptor]

hey guys, can i ask a question?

[true harness]

go ahead

[civic schooner]

So I have an associates in computer science. But I was unable to finish due to family issues back home. I haven’t been able to start my career and I feel like it might be getting too late. Should I go back and finish my bachelors (1.5 years away) or is doing a full time bootcamp going to be more beneficial?

While that’s probably a difficult question to answer, I guess I’m more looking for advice from someone in their career on which might be more beneficial.

[white condor]

#voiceverify

[peak flare]

If you are 1.5 years away, just do it, literally. In a couple of months you won't even believe you ware wondering about finishing it. Plus, such timeframe feels like a month when you are over 50. But then again, it depends a lot on what you expect from yourself in life. You do not need a degree to be an awesome entrepreneur. You do not need a degree if all you want is to code well with some stack. But you might need a degree if you want to deep dive into new technologies, or if eventually you want to work with research, academically speaking. And you might need substantial background depending on what your employee expects from you. Either way life is full of uncertainties. You will not make it through without bruises and cuts. Relax and enjoy. 🙂

[civic schooner]

I guess I should also state, I’m 26. But I just want to get into the industry but 1.5 years is if I go back full time which I’m not sure I can do for that long. Which I more why I’m posing the question. If I finish it’ll have to be part time and that could take 3-4 years which is concerning.

1.5 years is likely 3-4 years*

[smoky wedge]

Hey, I saw some programming memes and thought they were funny-
But have not looked far and there are a massive amount of jokes at the expense of "Multiple interviews (for the same company) for possibly a job" all over.

Why would a company do multiple interviews instead of just doing it all at once?

Example:
I read someone had 3 (45 to 60)min interviews on the same day and if successful, 2 for (45 to 60)min interviews afterwards also on the same day.
Why not one larger one with a possible split around the middle?

[summer roost]

hm - I haven't really seen companies do that. At least, not for multiple in-person rounds.

it's easier to schedule one day of the candidate's availability than 2, so they'd rather just do one day, and have you there for 4 or 5 hours.

that's separate from any phone interviews they might want to do with you, though, since those are just a screening/filtering step that's done in advance, to figure out if it's even worth the trouble of giving you a real interview.

At my company, the process used to be (before COVID - I'm not actually sure what we do now) that you'd go through a 30 minute technical phone screen (or maybe it was an hour?), and if you passed that, you'd be brought in for an in-person interview. At the in-person interview, you'd be interviewed by 2 engineers for an hour, then by another 2 engineers for an hour. If both of those groups liked you, you'd get a one hour interview with a team leader or manager, and then you'd get half an hour with HR.

[summer roost]

it could be that, if a company splits things up this way, the first day is technical interviews, and (if you pass those) the second day is "culture fit" interviews - does the team lead of the team that you'd be assigned to get along with you, are you happy with the hours/benefits, do you have any questions about what you'd be working on, etc. The only reason I can think of why they might schedule it for 2 separate days is so that after the first day they decide if they think you're worth hiring, and on the second day they could immediately offer you the job if things still go well.

[vapid jay]

I have a question how to display this color in the python console?

[muted kraken]

Can someone, ideally graduates/career advisors/people who are employed in a similar tech role critically review my cover letter (CL) for me? 🤔 It's for a junior-level Data Warehouse Developer role... The problem with the CL for me is that, it doesn't really match most of this job's person specification 😦 Just need some friendly advise

[obsidian acorn]

Can you share a link to it here? You can remove the PII’s?

@muted kraken

[crimson crane]

Hello all! I've been studying Python for 2 months now (Angela Yu's 100 Days of Python, day 36 just finished). Quite enjoying it, and considering coding as a new career (am 35yo middle manager currently). How far along should I be before considering entry level/internship type positions? I'm planning on completing the course before approaching this seriously, but will jump into some small experiences if I can pull it off.

[amber hamlet]

you can try to automate things like excel sheets, build a GUI for controlling stuff or connecting things

if you can do those things, you can make yourself useful and try to apply for an internship

[dry sapphire]

nope! am boy and it’s just a hypothetical, but I defo get why you’d say that (though my company really goes HARD on diversity! we have like ~40% female engineers and we focus explicitly on unconscious bias etc.)

[dry sapphire]

but it depends on location too, right? most people here are in the US and I’m not

[dry sapphire]

7 years is a lot of time. why not?

[sinful gorge]

If people dont respect you because of where you are from you shouldn't be working with them or even be around them

What makes you think it takes such a long time to develop a web site with backend? Aka full stack.

[final ravine]

Just apply anyway

[dry sapphire]

what I mean to say is that workplace culture differs between countries. most people here have experience in the US, which will shape their opinions and history. on the other hand, I'm not, so "this doesn't really happen" could very well happen where I am.

[sinful gorge]

Im trying to say people are people and if it does happen you shouldnt have been working with these people in the first place. If someone cant respect you because someone else saw promise in you and gave you a position of authority then they are basically disrespecting you and the people that hired you which means you probably should not work there anyways.

Thats not fullstack engineering thats just learning all 1000+ languages that exist in the world and thats not the same as a fullstack engineering job

[dry sapphire]

the choice to up and leave isn't open to everyone

[sinful gorge]

When you develop software you use other software like your Operating System, Web Browser, Text Editor, Compilers, Interpreters, Databases, and so on. With that being said those are all written software as well and you will become familiar with all of those tools as you develop fullstack software because you will learn how to combine them all to make a system. They are probably just saying there is a lot to learn.

[dry sapphire]

in general, you need to know HTML, CSS, and JS for frontend, and another language (which can also be JS) for your backend.

you can even skip out on the JS for the frontend if you don't need much dynamism.

[sinful gorge]

You can always look for a better job as a software engineer. Whether you get one or not is up in the air..... But it doesnt hurt to look if you are not happy

[dry sapphire]

which is exactly my point. not everyone has the option to leave and find something that works for them

of course everyone can look but prospects never fed anyone

[sinful gorge]

Then why take the position if you are asking these questions? You are nervous about it I can tell. Or are you in this situation?

[dry sapphire]

also learning languages (unless they're your first) is really quite a small part of the process.

understanding how to build software is something else entirely

[dry sapphire]

what makes you think I am nervous about a hypothetical situation?

[sinful gorge]

Why are you asking about a hypothetical situation? Is this not happening lol

[dry sapphire]

it's effectively what I'm doing, but I was curious as to whether others were made to feel uncomfortable by being in similar positions

[smoky quest]

I think it's more about the ego than the age. I have seen it going both ways

even new grads know it all not listening to more experienced leads

[gritty rivet]

@crimson crane I don't think there's any clearcut answer to when you are ready. Everyone's path is different. It's not to early to study job listings and the many different career paths that use Python. It's also never too early to start building a portfolio of code on GitHub. You'll keep practicing, keeping getting more clear about what your goals are, and it's an iterative process that never ends

[crimson crane]

Yes. Absolutely. You'll be killing it if you're starting this early.

[crimson crane]

Thank you for your answer. I do need to start a portfolio.

[crimson crane]

I'll start working on this kind of stuff at work.

[dry sapphire]

in Asian countries there’s a strong culture of “listen to/respect your elders because of their age”

[vapid jay]

hi

I am trying to do a career transition. starting a masters next year. would u guys recommend python and data science combined cert or boot camp.

the cert offers courses through my uni which is prestigious in CS. but I have heard good things about several bootcamp/grad programs for python that pay while you learn. any advice appreciated.

[vapid jay]

👋

[vapid jay]

I was Apple engineer. I got fired for accidentally stealing Apple TV - amazon didn’t delivered, apple - did, i unpacked the device and then mistakenly claimed it as stolen (the one not delivered by amazon was). They fired me a year later, they showed me the information connecting my order on Apple store site with Apple ID currently logged in on all my MacBooks iPhones and iPads and Apple TV’s.

[vapid jay]

@slender fiber We don't allow advertisements here - also, please stick to the channel topics

@vapid jay This channel is for career discussion related to Python, please see #❓｜how-to-get-help if you need Python help.

[lean roost]

Hey

What jobs can I get by doing computer science

[marsh wind]

Mhm not really. We have healthy mix of US EU UK and India I would say

[modern moth]

All you want, web devoper,security,database administrator

[rancid heath]

Netflix account?!

[obsidian acorn]

@lean roost you can do a lot by learning CS. The question is, what would you like to do?
From a CS degree, you learn about being a Software developer, and the basics and usages of different languages. It leaves the door open to what you can do with that.

[lean roost]

What languages do I need to learn to become a computer engineer?

[undone verge]

Hi guys, I want to transition into data science (currently a Physicist) as a data scientist and have a couple of general transition and hiring question in the Indian IT industry. Can anybody help.me connect with a data scientist working in Indian industry?

[obsidian acorn]

It depends on what you want to do, where you want to work. Data engineers use mostly sql/python/scala. Most bank developers use Java, info secs use mostly python, and so one. But starting with python is always great because you can learn other languages from there.

[lean roost]

Ah

[obsidian acorn]

And if you want to do hardware engineer, then c, c+ and machine language would be required.

[lean roost]

What about a malware sec?

[hoary cradle]

Hello, wanted some guidance regarding Masters in US, can anybody connect with me?

[vapid jay]

india

[opal saddle]

s

!close

[ivory sluice]

hey, watcha looking for. maybe #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help ?

[knotty swan]

I am new to python, where should I start from. Need help.?

[ivory sluice]

#python-discussion 👈 come ask here

[stark spruce]

which strand should I peek?
ICT (Information Communication and Technology) or STEM

i'm worried about ict
it's a new program and i might end up w a bad instructor

[vapid jay]

Hello guys, I'm a student and I have an assignment that is discussing about software engineering with the people who is in this field. May someone please add me and send me their name and their Email address if they are willing to help? Thank you!

[near ocean]

ICT was part of stem last time i checked

[sacred ridge]

Hello everyone. Can someone tell what types of languages should I learn for be a game designer.

[burnt wren]

I'm preparing for a coding interview and the company uses a "Data Structure & Algorithm" / "HackerRank" type of questions in their interview.

Question: When solving questions in HackerRank to prepare for coding interviews, do you use the chosen language's features? For instance "reverse the array" question is a one-liner in python using its extended slicing and negative step feature (an_array[::-1]) I do want to work with Python. But should I handicap myself and pretend that the python feature doesn't exist?

[near ocean]

No, use the tools each language has to offer

[burnt wren]

Thanks for your input @near ocean

[final ravine]

You can ask the question directly in discord, see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[shadow moss]

C# is also heavily used by Unity Game engine

[vagrant sapphire]

I am from another stream and learning python based on my personal interests. Do i have the scope of having a job in the it field?

[dreamy shale]

Someone told me cs50 harvard is a good course like to learn basics or so should I see it i know python and want to jump in c++ so please help

[pulsar bay]

not sure if this is the right channel for this, but in any case, CS50 is a great course. I helped my younger brother through it and it seems to teach everything quite well. If you don't already know any programming, it's still good, but just a little steep. If you already know some Python, and want to understand stuff better and learn lower-level languages, then it's a good start.

[dreamy shale]

@pulsar bay I know python and want to learn c++ next so should i focus on c or not

[pulsar bay]

well, you can certainly learn C++ without C, but whether that's a good idea is highly debated. Some argue learning C first teaches you bad practices for "modern" C++ which some find difficult to shed. Other say you should first learn what's happening under the hood of all the fancy "advanced" features of C++.

Personally, I think learning C first, and especially through a great course like CS50 is a good idea. That course is really about computer science, not just programming, so everything you learn is still incredibly applicable anyways. Learning C++ without that background can be pretty difficult, so this will ease you into it.

[dreamy shale]

So im getting c with cs50 for some basics right then will jump to c++ @pulsar bay

[summer roost]

for better or for worse, someone who codes in C++ will see a lot of C-like C++, and I think it's a very good idea to learn C before C++.

[dreamy shale]

Okay so cs50 is great for it right@summer roost

[summer roost]

I've heard CS50 is good, though I'm not personally familiar with it.

[dreamy shale]

Ok

[icy field]

what is this channel about

[summer roost]

Every channel has a topic that you can see at the top (or, on mobile, by swiping left).

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

Uh-oh! It looks like your message got zapped by our spam filter. We currently don't allow .txt attachments, so here are some tips to help you travel safely:

• If you attempted to send a message longer than 2000 characters, try shortening your message to fit within the character limit or use a pasting service (see below)

• If you tried to show someone your code, you can use codeblocks
(run !code-blocks in #bot-commands for more information) or use a pasting service like:

https://paste.pythondiscord.com

[smoky quest]

You are posting in the wrong channel. This channel is #career-advice . You would have more chances in #python-discussion

[near ocean]

not here, try #python-discussion

[inner wren]

Hey @urban stag!

It looks like you tried to attach a Python file - please use a code-pasting service such as https://paste.pythondiscord.com

[vast shoal]

We do not allow unapproved advertising on this server, including for surveys. Please DM @severe widget to apply for permission.

[dark arrow]

We do not allow recruitment in this server

[cunning plume]

i want to becom pizza man

[icy blade]

How can i make 3d modeler

[harsh socket]

So my university is offering an online Intro to Python Programming course, it is 4 weeks long and if successfully complete the course and the final assignment, will receive a Python Foundations digital badge. Does anyone know if this badge mean anything? Would it be helpful on resumes and job applications?

[light radish]

No not really, if you do any meaningful projects however they matter a ton more on your resume

Hey guys, I am getting ready to brush up my resume. So I am an Electrical Engineer trying to make the switch to software. In my title of my resume I have "Electrical Engineer". Should I remove this? And what would I replace it with?

[gritty rivet]

Replace it with the title you are applying for, or with nothing.

[open sluice]

I have a question, how far can I get with a PCAP python certification and a security+ if looking for a job? Colorado Springs area. I'm going to be getting those two certifications by the end of this year.

if not enough, what else should I get? A linux certification maybe?

[smoky quest]

linux certs are mostly used for ops/sre/sysadmin type of jobs. Is it what you are looking for?

[open sluice]

Im actually just looking to get into anything I can in terms of programming, primarily python. Data science is my primary goal, but honestly I want to hit the ground running

PCAP would it get me far? sorry

[smoky quest]

Anything other than a degree would be more on a case by case basis. It will depend on a specific employer, how you interview, your projects, experience...

[open sluice]

I see, awesome. Alrighty. well I had to leave my college because I couldnt afford it any longer, so its just certs for me

[smoky quest]

Have you looked into student loan, grants, community colleges?

but yeah, without a degree, it's like you are doing your life in extreme hardcore mode

[open sluice]

No worries. I'll build a portfolio and get maybe the PCPP1 in that case

[smoky quest]

You can still try to apply once you wrap up your current certs and see what happens. Worst case, your application get ignored and best case, you get into interviews. So nothing to loose

[open sluice]

do you believe that the PCPP1 or 2 would be a good substitute for the degree?

[smoky quest]

no. there is no substitute for degrees

It will matter less once you reach 5 years of experience but the difficult part is to get these 5 years of experience without a degree

[open sluice]

ah well. I'll have to do my best and shoot for the defense contractors in the city than like Polaris and Raytheon. They have some entry programs that I believe only required a security+ but I dont know how much I can touch upon programming sadly.

[smoky quest]

yeah, can't speak about defense contractors

[open sluice]

I really appreciate your time, thank you. I'll get the PCPP1 , security+ and a JS certification, i dont think it can hurt me but really only help. have a fantastic day

[smoky quest]

thanks! you too and good luck!

[gritty rivet]

I just want to jump in to emphasize the point that certs are way more valued in IT operations than in development or data science. If your sure that's what you want to do then I would focus on developing a strong portfolio and not waste much time or money on certifications.

[smoky quest]

how does that relate to #career-advice and is not an ad?

[vapid jay]

or ?

[smoky quest]

it has to meet both conditions. If it only meets a single one, then it's not appropriate for this channel

[open sluice]

thanks! I'm going to try my best honestly, I really want to do this.

[neat grove]

Yeah that doesn't belong here

[main cloak]

Which international startups or remote companies are best for freshers in Europe and Asia? (Zero years experience freshers)

[smoky quest]

internships are a good way in

However note that anything visa related is rather expensive and require some investment for someone who won't be able to come for months. Which is even more expensive if the individual has zero experience. So it's rarely an avenue used by startups

[fast bison]

Hi, if I want to become game developer, what should I learn, where should I learn

Now, I starting read book

[smoky quest]

have you tried google?
There are plenty of exhaustive resources like https://www.cgspectrum.com/career-pathways/game-development

[fast bison]

I tried google, but because I'm living in Vietnam, that why it's hard to find useful information ._.

[smoky quest]

try to set the locale to US/EN, that may give you more results

[fast bison]

Thank you, the link you send help me so much ^^

[marsh wind]

As someone working at startup that does hire internationallly I can confirm that... I think there was a single case where intern was brought from visa required countries. Other cases international interns already had their student residence permit

[marsh wind]

I've met quite some Indians here and majority of them who got internships or jobs went the local university route

[full sage]

Thanks I needed this 🙂

[leaden linden]

So work is pushing us to get familiar with github. Since ive just started my journey on learning Python as my first language, I havent been exposed to github. Anyone have any good resources (books/sites) that you believe are up to todays standards?

[stone blade]

https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/quickstart/hello-world

😃

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

I would love to see someone post some proper coding standard reference for python, sorry idk any

[mint viper]

This is first of all likely a fake program, and highly unethical even if it were to work.

[vapid jay]

its fake??

can u check the code to see if it would work?

[mint viper]

Dude, don't run random code off the internet. Especially if you don't understand the language. This stuff is dangerous and you will end up getting hacked before anything actually works.

<@&831776746206265384> Not sure what to do in this situation, but wanted to inform you.

[peak halo]

@mint viper I'm not sure what you're referring to. Can you dm @severe widget and explain?

[mint viper]

Was taken care of by Jack

[peak halo]

No further discussion, please.

[inner wren]

@brave ivy Per Rule 6, your invite link has been removed. If you believe this was a mistake, please let staff know!

Our server rules can be found here: https://pythondiscord.com/pages/rules

[vapid jay]

i dont like study

[fluid quarry]

No clue on which channel I need to ask this question but does anyone know where is the best place to start at while learning python? I'm new to it all and just want to find the best place to self teach myself.

[buoyant seal]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/918T0PFW1BL.jpg
That would be a good place to start

[vapid jay]

Hi,
My long-term goal is to become a python developer.
I am currently trying to increase my proficiency in python by working through Codewars questions.
I have also played around with some datasets using Pandas/numpy.

Can anyone recommend any other good website or course that will bring up my level in python and make me more job-ready?

[buoyant seal]

Head First: Design Patterns would be a cool stuff to learn in this case: https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61APhXCksuL._SY445_SX342_QL70_ML2_.jpg

[buoyant seal]

When you would be ready... this book is the best for advanced python level btw
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61EOTTOiPbL.jpg

[vapid jay]

Thanks, just noticed that this book appears to be with examples in Java, would you recommend it anyway? As I Have no knowledge of Java

[buoyant seal]

People usually start with this one though for clean code https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9nxGhz2sgPdGJgsZhNgLUhhmvyXgk3aLEvPkIS_NHQQMOWBJWwlxYqKio5nUuY8pkNEXaOC4ww1_MGuA1TotRjyKO1q7PO22DnC09Zayto6qVZV8AppUFmQ&usqp=CAE
Considered as classic choice. A bit too heavy on java though.

[buoyant seal]

Yes. There is no better book that teaches Design Patterns.
Plus level of java knowledge that required there is quite low.

I never programmed in java, only had small C# experience, it was enough for me to read the book

[buoyant seal]

oh yes, and don't forget to learn Git if you don't know it yet. Programmer without version control is not a programmer (at least for commercial stuff)

[vapid jay]

Ok, I added it to my list of books. Thanks

[vapid jay]

lol yes, the labyrinth that is git. I did a course on linked in learning in git,
I followed their exercises and I think I have grasped the idea behind it, but I have never applied to any of my own projects

[buoyant seal]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/816Oezch+UL.jpg
Feel free to read this one, when you would be ready.
Good place to start learning how to test your code

essential for any commercial programming as well

[vapid jay]

do you/anyone else recommend any courses in terms of commonly used algorithms (not sure if this is covered by the design patterns book)
or liner algebra/matrices ?

[buoyant seal]

ugh. the step I moved in university. So I am not sure what to recommend.
Liner Algebra/matrices is the most useful math part, but still going to be needed quire rarely in my opinion.
It would be cool to have smth for Algorithms though
I think it would be worth to check this book perhaps: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/619M-4xNINL.jpg

I think it is mostly made out of algorithm stuff, as far as I remember

Something for Algorithms and Data structures as general learning is required, but I just have no idea what to recommend

[vapid jay]

Np Thanks for your recommendations

[proven basin]

By "build a portfolio" do you guys mean do projects and display them on github?

For someone trying to make the switch to data science

[main cloak]

Which websites are best for finding international offers, startups and remote jobs?

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel. This is #career-advice

[smoky quest]

Depends on the role, but yes, a portfolio is a set of work you have produced that you can talk about and show

[vast shoal]

@storm hawk Unapproved advertisement is not allowed on this server. You can DM @severe widget to apply for approval.

This is a channel for Python career discussion and the world of work. Please keep random topics to one of the off-topic channels.

[twilit forum]

Wrong channel, but for git stuff I quite like this. I'm by no means a git wizard, but I manage, and I still go in there sometimes to mess around.
https://learngitbranching.js.org/

I think learning git is a lot more useful and important than learning github/gitlab/bitbucket specifics, do that later.

[safe loom]

How should I understand the following? A company rejecting my application shortly after I've submitted it? Does that mean they already have the position filled?

[marsh wind]

not always. Maybe they don't want your candidature

[safe loom]

Yeah but then i'd like to have a motive. Can't they really provide one, even among the most common ones?

[marsh wind]

they don't provide more often than don't. You can always try to send an email/message asking for motive but don't get your hopes high

[safe loom]

I'm checking some of the profiles and they're looking for seniors. Must be because I don't have that much experience...

[marsh wind]

in most cases companies don't like to disclose rejection related info

[safe loom]

Yeah that sucks. Especially when you're applying online because you have to play guess with that kind of stuff.

[marsh wind]

it is. I would advice though to keep applying and trying to be realistic, specifically, in matching postion+requirements to your profile. i,e, if they look for seniors and you don't really have that kind of experience, maybe better not to apply, but if they look for junior/mid level saying they want 1-2/3-5 years of experinece but you have, say some experience you can apply for junior demanding 1-2, or if you have 2+ years you can try to apply to mid level even if they say they want 3-5

[vapid jay]

!mute 903933649584549989 Investigating.

[inner wren]

:x: The user doesn't appear to be on the server.

[safe loom]

Unfortunately I only have 1 year at my belt, so i'll probably try for junior/intermediate positions. Besides it never hurts to apply for senior positions especially if the HR managers have unrealistic expectations at the job.

Btw how can we estimate the ratio between juniors and seniors? Not much I presume. Don't most developers get tired and opt for manager positions instead?

[marsh wind]

there are lot of devs who don't want to go manager route, at least among my peers 🙂

[safe loom]

I see. Also what about sponatenous applications? Would they work or is this already a lost bet?

[vast shoal]

Being a manager seems a lot more tiresome and stressful to me than working on the tech.

[marsh wind]

it is 😂

[marsh wind]

this is something that can fire off absolutely randomly afaik. I never tried myself but I know that sometimes it works

[tired knoll]

django or java spring ?

[vapid jay]

looking to start a career in python,
I've seen often that a "solid portfolio with a couple of projects" will get you far with prospective employers, but what does this actually look like?

It seems wise (so as not to dip one's feet into two many areas) To choose either web dev or data science.

Going down the web dev route, I'm guessing projects to show employers might be: backend development of a few websites?

the main languages/frameworks I'm seeing in job descriptions are:
my SQL, django, docker, elastic search, react
and then tools like GIT, CI.CD, Unit tests
so, if I invest my time in the next few months really learning and these and building projects with what I learn, does that sounds like a good plan ?

Any advice appreciated as feeling a little lost as to how I can take the knowledge of python I have into a career

[twilit forum]

I think web is a lot more approachable than DS.

[vapid jay]

yeah, I agree. I have done some stuff with Pandas and Numpy which I found really enjoyable, and obviously ML is fascinating, but going into it as a career seems like it would be really tough, with all the knowledge of statistics/maths knowledge you would need

[twilit forum]

If I were hiring I would never hire a data scientist that doesn't have a fairly strong academic background.

It is, as far as I know, a lot harder.

For the record I got my education in kind of DS-adjacent fields (bioinformatics), but work in web dev.

I got a little for this opinion though, and I don't have a lot of industry experience working with ML/DS/AI and the opposing stance was that you can make very good and useful applications using plug 'n' play DS/ML libraries without a lot of prerequisite knowledge.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is my own very limited experience 🙂

[vapid jay]

it makes sense, data science looks vast

[vapid jay]

as someone who works in web dev, do you have any recommendations for me in getting into the industry ?

[twilit forum]

I slipped in on a banana peel, I took a course in creating Laboratory Information Management Systems at Uni, kind of a niche within biological/chemical RnD that, well, manages the information and inventory created and used in research.

There are off the shelf solutions but many, maybe even most, have to be at the very least partially custom made.

I applied, and the fact that I was a "softwarey" guy with a biotech background checked a lot of the boxes. I can "speak both languages", it's easy for me to understand the requirements of the clients as I while I don't really grok the finer details of what's going on all the time have spent some time at the lab bench.

So my advice would be to try and integrate your current skillset.

I've only been here a couple of years so I'm pretty fresh myself, so take everything I say with a hefty bit of salt 😄

[vapid jay]

Okay well my current skillset is just that I have self-taught python and attended some courses in it too.

So now I got to self teach: django, my sql, react and some others. And hopefully build a website

[misty idol]

As per our sixth rule, we don't allow advertisements here. That includes links with embedded referrals

[vapid jay]

I did have a look at that roadmap and it looks ... a lot. a lot of acronynms and terms I don't know

but nonetheless very useful @gritty rivet thank you

[gritty rivet]

I know the feeling, that's why it's a roadmap though... Step by step you get there over time :)

[halcyon lantern]

hi i want to estudy python

i downlod python and pycharm

[near ocean]

#python-discussion
this channel is for discussion about careers

[woeful spruce]

you can kiss your programming days good bye when you take a Managerial role. I feel like managerial roles are risky because it might be tough to get back into a programming role if it doesn't work out.

[candid sun]

what's a good python project idea for a cs college major trying to get a software engineering internship?

[safe loom]

Yeah i've heard accounts of old devs not going back there ever after taking positions.

[near ocean]

Not going because its not better, because they dont want to, because they cant?

[safe loom]

I heard they were burnt out from coding. At least that's from a friend's friend experience.

Meanwhile I've seen data scientists going into data engineering because they wanted something more concrete.

[near ocean]

I cant imagine moving to management, can barely manage myself, how do i manage other people

[woeful spruce]

don't you just lose your coding skills after a while

they just become outdated if you have been removed for 7-10 years

[woeful spruce]

you probably could if your job was solely managing people. You wouldn't have to focus on your conventional daily tasks.

[ivory talon]

some things never change (basic programming, OOP, data structures, some algorithms), but the technologies being used in the industry do change, and fairly often

[woeful spruce]

lots of luck involved wit management as you get the credit for what your team contributes (for better or for worse)

[near ocean]

I dont think theres a job where you solely manage people tho

[woeful spruce]

well, not 100% maybe, but you go to meetings and base don those meetings you plan ahead and allocate resources to tasks accordingly

[marsh wind]

And get beating from higher management for not meeting deadlines or goals and etc etc

[smoky quest]

With regards to management, you can make it work the way you want.

But you can't expect to be very low level in the weeds and at the same time going up the ladder. It's all about how to spend your time effectively

As you become more senior, it's better for you to spend your time on more higher level tasks such as strategy, coaching, and helping people make progress, rather than doing low level tasks

Most goals can be influenced or setup yourself. So you have a lot of leeway in terms of how to go about it and how to call it a success regardless

[swift veldt]

Setting yourself as a senior/mentor seems like a good way to orient moving up in one's career. The goal is to avoid falling into the meeting, deadline, and spreadsheet management trap.

[vapid jay]

does anyone know any internships for the summer 2022 without technical?

[true harness]

you haven't provided any information for us to answer. your best bet is going to be google

[latent orbit]

hi

[wanton holly]

hello

[dry sapphire]

does Google have that many nontechnical internships?

[dry sapphire]

it’s not always a 0-100 thing? there are many gradations of “engineering manager”

[ivory sluice]

i think he meant best bet would be to search google for internships

that's pretty funny tho

[dry sapphire]

I know 😝

[west merlin]

hello, can somebody help me

i'm stuck, i don't know where to go. i've learned all the basics of python like var, condition,loop,etc. i also have made a few projects. what should i learn next?

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh/ or https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ should give you some ideas

Note however this is the wrong channel to ask about this since you are in #career-advice . You should try in #python-discussion

[west merlin]

okay" imsorry

[smoky quest]

it's not, but being neither means you won't really be able to grow and will likely be stuck there for a while

[plucky bridge]

i'm thinking of trying to get a job as a data analyst, how doable is that with only high school education? and for a resume should i even have an education section with my high school, or is that not really worth anything

[smoky quest]

Your chances are pretty low.
99% of the candidates will have a degree.

[proud plank]

Yo i want to one day work as a dev or dba,

Should i finish school and take cs studies?
I'm having a little trouble in my current class

[smoky quest]

school/degrees are the normal path.
What type of troubles do you have?

[plucky bridge]

that's what i assumed. i do want to try but i'm not very optimistic

[proud plank]

I'm really passionate about programming, I'm in high school rn and I'm repeating a grade this year.
I don't feel well with my classmates and this school in general.

What are my options?

[summer roost]

If you have the option to get a degree, take it. If you absolutely must break into the field without a degree, web development will be easier to break into than data science, from what I've heard.

[smoky quest]

why not aiming for university/college?

[plucky bridge]

kinda hard to explain without going into a bunch of personal reasons, but i'm just unable to currently, probably for a couple years

[smoky quest]

First of all, the people at your school will be completely different from the people at the university/college. So you won't see your current classmates again.
Then the focus of studies is very different. It will focus on the topic and be less general, which can be great if you are passionate about programming and go for a CS degree

[plucky bridge]

i'm not in desperate need for a job so i'll be fine, i just wanted to think about it

[smoky quest]

Depending on the country, there are multiple ways to get a degree. Be it with community colleges, or some other local route. Each one with a different path.
So rather than focusing on what you can't do, I would suggest to look at what you could do

Without college, you will be limited to self studies and luck and hustling to find something. As mentioned above, webdev is typically easier for self taught people as it has a lower bar of entry

[vast shoal]

What's even the end goal of "orienting your career upwards"? Becoming an executive or something along those lines? What if I don't want that?

I figure if I get stuck doing something I don't enjoy, I can just move laterally to a new domain or a new tech stack.

I mean, sure, maybe I won't make as much money, but I'm pretty freaking comfortable as it is.

[rain walrus]

yeah money isn't the only thing in this world right ?

[rain walrus]

well i guess depends on person to person , and they should make this decision on their past life experiences and what type of person they really are if they are someone who do not have a vision and the passion they should probably go for a college, if they do no have secure backup plan

[jovial rover]

I'm not sure if this would go into career, but I think in general it relates to careers.
I would currently consider myself at least an amateur in a number of languages, and maybe even very familiar with python, but I don't feel I'm quite a master in any language. I've learned the basics and most of the advanced things- where do I go from here? How do I prove my knowledge to myself? '

[gritty rivet]

It's all about projects. Build stuff and/or contribute to existing open source projects that interest you

[summer roost]

Start applying to jobs. Finding someone who's willing to pay you for what you know is a pretty great way to prove to yourself that your knowledge is valuable

[glossy cedar]

good morning fellow computer people. my manager and I comprise the IT department at our work and we are bringing on an intern from a local university.

Anyone have experience working with interns? Or maybe you were an intern once? I am trying to get a sense of how to foster a learning environment whilst also getting work done. What would you do?

Thanks in advance!

Feel free to direct message.

[tepid delta]

Hello Everyone :D

I'm quite new here and about to finish my first semester in uni studying python. Could I get any suggestions on how I should forward building my portfolio or career into the industry. Ideally I'd like to start a bit early and get ahead of the game or shall I just chill for a while and I'm getting ahead of myself?
I'd really appreciate pointers on what to do from here on out cuz I'm quite lost

[smoky quest]

That's up to you.
I see a lot of "what if I don't like it?" but what if you do? Managing people and teams is also extremely rewarding and interesting.
If you are happy where you are, that's also great, but one should also consider the implications in terms of career and compensation

[smoky quest]

When you are 16-24 years old, you have zero life experience. They can be smart, very curious and passionate, but they don't know shit about the life after school.
Having neither plan nor degree means they will have a lot of struggle and, at best, waste a few years to sort of catch up. There are way too many kids thinking they can get a high paid job with just 2-6 months of youtube videos. And that's fine and expected, it just goes back to my first point.

[vast shoal]

I just don't see how career and compensation advantages would ever be worth moving away from writing code for me. It's my one passion.

[smoky quest]

management is a lot more than just compensation advantages.

[tame ginkgo]

how would you recommend getting experience?

[smoky quest]

what type of experience or domain?
Otherwise, "practice makes perfect"

[tame ginkgo]

work experice @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

then look for a job that is related to the thing you want to get experience in

There are local job boards or websites such as linkedin or indeed or monster

[hazy stratus]

Anyone here make a career change from business/finance into tech related career? Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences with the transition.

[tawdry storm]

Accepted an SRE position! 🙂

[balmy spade]

Congrats!

[balmy spade]

If I can make the shift from retail to tech, then someone in business can make the shift. Communication experience and problem solving carries forward naturally.

[ivory sluice]

ooooooooo congratulations!!

[vapid jay]

hey guys i just became an astronaut

[green falcon]

Hi everybody. New here. Grad student (data science) who finally got an interview (revenue analytics). I've been told the interview is going to be situational/technical on sql and python. I don't come from a computer science background, so I'm terrified. Any good resources you can recommend to prep?

[buoyant seal]

Depending on the amount of u being far from programming ..
Some additional stuff can be required

[ivory sluice]

@kindred vortex hello, there is no recruitment allowed on the server. please see #rules and the channel description

[kindred vortex]

Ok.

[idle tendon]

can someone please help me to get this code

[smoky quest]

You are asking in the wrong channel. This is #career-advice . You would have more chance in another channel like #python-discussion

[idle tendon]

thank you

[vast shoal]

I don't doubt it, and if management is something that interests you I'm sure it's great. But to me personally it just looks like I'll have to give up what I really love doing in exchange for something that I don't know if I'll enjoy or not (and I suspect not given how I feel about socializing in general) and maybe better compensation.

[dry sapphire]

I agree with this! I'll be starting to take on a leadership role (small team of <10 devs) in addition to my current responsibilities and I'm not super sure about it tbh

because I think overall I'm more interested in going down the "staff engineer" as opposed to "tech lead" path...but I do also want to have my own startup in the future, and experience in the latter would be really important, too.

that said, ultimately it's about your passions, right? management is not unequivocally better

[vast shoal]

What's a staff engineer?

[dry sapphire]

a term some places use for "senior individual contributor", I guess

[vast shoal]

Err, so just a generic senior developer?

[dry sapphire]

I suppose so

I was contrasting "staff engineer" against "tech lead" as examples of titles the average person with a fair bit of experience might have on the IC and management tracks respectively

[vast shoal]

Alright, I haven't heard staff engineer before, but I'm in Sweden, so it might just not be widely used here.

[dry sapphire]

it's apparently something people use in the US? it's not common here in SG either

usually "senior" -> "lead" -> "principal"

[marsh wind]

never heard that term to.... for me it's a senior dev, yeah...

[velvet bolt]

Best only python jobs that are out there?

[pseudo helm]

Principal or Staff Engineers are high level ICs (independent contributors) who act as leads likely over multiple domains and act as mentor and architects as well.

This allows an engineer to grow as an IC without going into management of people. It breaks the shitty "want to advance? must take on people management" cycle.

[pseudo helm]

Wooo, hiring is tough right now. On the plus side got a ton of resumes -- on the bad side, most are pretty bad right now afaict.

[buoyant seal]

Precisely. At the current job I went eventually with quickly learning frontend than finding frontend dev. Quicker and easier than hiring ;b

[simple falcon]

Hi Everyone! Just joined. I'm a tech recruiter (US) and an active career coach/advocate volunteer for women and POCs who want to break into tech in my university. Reading your insights here have already been so helpful. Happy to find this community and be an active contributor!

[tight tree]

Hi everyone, need some advice. I have about 7 years of experience as an SDET. while I do like testing stuff, I find that it has many limiting factors. I like building stuff more than I like testing it anyway.. I quit the previous job and moved countries. Now I'll be job hunting again. Has anyone ever changed from an SDET to SWE here? advice and tips appreciated

[pseudo helm]

To me those aren't even really different jobs. You write code, yeah? If anything, you'll be a great SWE because you know how to test and likely test-first. An SWE that can't write tests isn't an SWE imho.

[azure magnet]

What do u think about "Think Python 2"?

is it possible to save messages here on Discord?

[pseudo helm]

If anything, I find it easier to hire front end people than backend or people who can also do IaC for instance (and/or are great at working in a DevOps environment). FEDs are flooding the market imho and in a few years they're going to be as ubiquitous as graphic designers that flooded the market (and still do).

[pseudo helm]

Never even heard of that one from Oreilly. Thought for a second you meant "python 2" instead of "think python 2nd edition" 😄

[pseudo helm]

Great to hear that! I'm a huge advocate for women and POCs joining the tech industry and have always actively hired from bootcamps that promote that as well.

[azure magnet]

https://greenteapress.com/wp/think-python/

[pseudo helm]

Yeah, no, I looked it up when I didn't recognize it.

I feel like you'd be better off looking at those original books posted above.

There are some specific python + data science books too but I'd have to look for them for you.

You say you're a grad student, but in what degrees if you have no exposure to CS at all?

[tight tree]

I do write code and I do my work well. any ideas on how recruitment generally is for candidates who do not have direct experience in the particular tech stack? eg, I'm good at python and can code in it but not particularly in django. This is something I'd rather learn on the job. Do I compare favorably if i know django while applying?

[pseudo helm]

Compare is the right word here.

Between you and a candidate that already knows Django, if I'm hiring for Django, the other person perhaps looks better.

But that depends. Your resume can point out what you DO know, show work experience (even as a tester), and so forth. And maybe the other person is weaker or less experience.

To me, as a hiring manager, the exact stack match up is less important most of the time unless I'm trying to backfill for a specific missing thing I desperately need.

But I've definitely hired people that don't match my stack exactly or even the language. I hired a C# programmer cause I knew they were good people and they could pick up another language quick.

Main thing is: put yourself out there. Don't be afraid to apply if you don't match stack requirements exactly. Go into the interview open and honest about what you know and show that you are hungry to learn more. That goes a long way.

[tight tree]

ooh! now this helps a ton. thanks!

[true harness]

from what i've heard, it's doable. for many courses you'll be able to count the credits towards both majors

[pseudo helm]

yeah, that's the main thing, I don't think it is going to overburden you. I bet it ends up just being a couple extra math classes as most CS degrees already have a lot of higher math.

[smoky quest]

That's fair.
Note my arguments are more in the general sense of a career and making sure people are aware of the implications of their choices.
I am in no way trying to convince someone to go into management or not go in it. That's up to the concerned folks to make an informed decision.

I also recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897
It's pretty short but gives a great overview of the different paths and pros/cons

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I understand. I asked kind of a sweeping question because I sometimes get the impression that going into management and "developing your career" is somehow the implied default and I wanted to get perspectives on that idea, so I appreciate your thoughts.

[smoky quest]

There is also the path of staff/principal/etc. but most of the time, you would still have some sort of leadership there as well (but different from people leadership). The cases where you get old and become the super deep engineer is pretty rare

[shy arch]

Hello from Cuba. Happy to meet coders from other countries

[pseudo helm]

Hello and welcome to #career-advice

[buoyant seal]

Maybe FEDs are flooding.
The problem is in... Finding the good ones? It takes a lot of time and effort to find if they are good ones.
Especially if u aren't having HR or hiring experience ;b

There is a literally a flood of people of u can try hiring from India from example... But searching for good ones is just... Quite long process.
And if we multiple average time to find one person per salary of the person who makes searches. And summarize with all people involved in the same manner.... Hiring becomes costy

[pseudo helm]

Hiring is DEFINITELY costly

[buoyant seal]

Hehe, that is why I will continue as main direction being DevOps plus backend.

As average I can see their salaries twice more than FEDs anyway.

I learned frontend just for the sake of trying everything. Plus hehe, I just wished finally becoming full stack in all kinds of manners.
And I escaped paying hiring price

[plush galleon]

What does "FED" mean?

[buoyant seal]

Front end developer

[pseudo helm]

DevOps/CloudOps is still going to be starving for talent for years so good choice. I'm biased since I work for a cloud consultancy company haha. But that's since september. Before this current gig I ran a cloudops team and before that an emerging tech team full of full stack devs of all sorts.

Full stack is such a loaded term too because it keeps growing. Now you're expected to be able to use docker for your own dev work, front end, back end, ci/cd tooling, etc. At least enough to use them and even self-service set up environments that you need. "Shift responsibilities left, blah blah"

[buoyant seal]

Heh. Having docker is like being able to compile your own work to binaries. The person should own its work enough in knowing how to compile it ;b

[pseudo helm]

Ha, no argument from me.

I expect devs, except green ones, to know how to build their apps out as 12 factor. To think about their app running ephemerally.

[austere salmon]

Hello, new here 👋🏾
What is the future of Python for spatial Computing

[polar cipher]

Hello, new starter here👋
I'm currently a cs student and major in data science. However, practising coding and doing stuff with code doesnt make me familiar with it. For my future cs-field job, i just to ask that in IT field, does there any or some jobs that require less or just focus on fewer coding skills or syntax（for example like just stick to python or r language and use less coding syntax）. Because i really weak in this part and maybe i writing here just to ask that the exact jobs in IT field there is require lesser coding skills, hope experts here could give some idea on me problems

[smoky quest]

There are a lot of jobs which do not require much coding skills in IT or data science. Too many to list them all actually.

Note also that being weak in coding is not too bad. It's a skill practice can help improve a lot, if interested.

[plucky latch]

thoughts on a BA minor in CS vs BSc major in CS. I didn't get into BSc from HS because I'm not that smart, and I'm trying to transfer to BSc in university now, but I was wondering if it makes that much of a difference

[smoky quest]

major is typically what job you want to get into. Do you want a CS or BA job?

[plucky latch]

oh, CS 1000%. It's just that I happen to be in BA right now 🤡
was wondering what the repercussions would be for my job opportunities

[buoyant siren]

does anyone have a good book/web/video source thats an introduction to mpi and parallel computing? im second year cs student and my school just got new hardware they are going to use for parallel computing I have an option of getting it set up as my final in my class. I know they want to use cuda with the gpu and ive never touched that before so any tips and direction would be helpful!

[smoky quest]

it's a cost function. Not black and white.
The further you are from CS, the more costly it is.
That said I can't speak specifically for BA, but what I can say is that most candidates I see do have a CS major

[smoky quest]

You are asking in the wrong channel. This is #career-advice . You would have more chance in #python-discussion

Although this doesn't really look like python related either

[buoyant siren]

you're right i was in the wrong channel my bad and I'm trying to do it in python so i think its still relevant? unless i need to search for a discord group specifically on this topic

[smoky quest]

you could try the coding den in the tech-talk or homeless languages

[buoyant siren]

thank you i appreciate it!

[tired inlet]

yo ! i am looking forward to learn machine learning and deep learning but the resources are quite scattered so can anyone suggest me what should i do like does anyone here has done machine learning and from they learned etc etc

[void idol]

Hello !

[gritty rivet]

#data-science-and-ml would be a more relevant channel

[tired inlet]

alright :D

[violet pier]

It's in Portuguese, but if you want I'll put it translated.

[true turtle]

hey @violet pier, your question is off-topic for this channel. Please read #❓｜how-to-get-help .
Also, we are an English speaking server, so you'll need to translate it.

[marsh wind]

do you have any estimation on actual hiring cost? I heard a number floating around 10-20k EUR per good hire in Europe (France to be precise)

[ebon mountain]

Hi

Can someone send me some lessons in python for starters

[near ocean]

This isnt the appropriate channel for python help, try #python-discussion

[peak halo]

I'm applying for company funding to attend PyCon, and I've been asked to explain how attending would benefit my career. If I mention that it would be good for networking, does that make it sound like I'm trying to leave the company? (I'm not, in either case, I just wanna go to pycon.)

[fiery niche]

Maybe frame it more as professional development, i.e keeping up with the latest developments in your language of choice?

[peak halo]

I mention that as well

[fiery niche]

Side note: I'm super upset that PyCon isn't recorded because I really wanted to watch GvR's faster cpython talk

[peak halo]

it's not?

[fiery niche]

I searched around everywhere but I can't find a video of that presentation (or any of them)

[peak halo]

there's a youtube playlist for 2021

[fiery niche]

Ah it wasn't pycon it was the python language summit, my mistake

Pycon is recorded, time to watch some videos!

[pseudo helm]

I don't have that number off top of head but you made me curious so I'm going to ask my recruiting person.

[summer roost]

I suppose some company could read it that way, but they shouldn't. Lots of job transitions for more senior roles are because you know someone who has worked at a place before and have heard good things, or know they're looking for someone with your skills. That works in both directions: you networking might lead to you finding a different job, but it might lead to someone else being convinced to apply for a job at your current company

[wet fractal]

Can anybody suggest me a good machine learning certification?

[vapid jay]

guys im choosing these subjects for college and i wanted to know if these are good to become a software engineer

[pseudo helm]

So, are those courses or majors? It's a bit broad to just say "computer science" and "maths".

[versed hatch]

how do you all deal with CEOs, when, you always just feel stupid/wrong on every interaction with them.

Example interactions like “Um - you need to do X FIRST, and then do Y - you can’t do this unless you know WHY you’re doing it” etc

[vapid jay]

what type of projects would look good on a cv

[fiery niche]

anything is better than nothing, but probably something geared towards the field you're interested in?

frontend/backend/fullstack --> website/API
devops/cloud/infrastructure --> some automation stuff, cli tool, aws project maybe
data stuff --> no idea

the size and scope of the project mostly doesn't matter either unless it's extremely impressive, it's mostly to have something to talk about during an interview and to have some of your code on display

[smoky quest]

Can you expand a bit more?

[halcyon lichen]

hey guys which platform is better for postgraduation program in data science? upgrad , jigsaw or, great learning?

[thorn mirage]

So I am good at HTML, CSS, JS (Worked on Bootstrap as well). My aim is to become a Front-End Developer. Which would be the best college for Front End Development in the USA?

[smoky quest]

they should all be fine

[pseudo helm]

yeah its not like a CS degree really goes deep on web tech at all

[real oyster]

Hi everyone I am a CS student in my second year, mostly working with Python/Java. I would consider myself a beginner, probably 'internship ready' or slightly lower.

I'm really struggling to decide a career path. My question is, I see a lot of people saying you must learn fullstack or app development; it is essential for a programmer. Is it true?

To be honest, I lack any interest in web development. I like blockchain(arguably though would involve some web dev), writing python scripts, and have some interest in Linux/OS's, have dabbled with networking. I know that no one but myself can choose but I got no idea what to do😅

[vast shoal]

No, you don't have to learn full-stack or app development, especially if you're getting a CS degree. There are lots of other viable domains.

[thorn mirage]

What??

[real oyster]

Thank you. I love Python, but I’m not sure where to actually ‘go’ with it if that makes sense? I’ve seen Data Science/ML routes, but I’m not sure what other options I have

[vast shoal]

I think they are saying that for the purpose of starting a career as a frontend dev, the specific college won't make much of a difference.

[pseudo helm]

they mean no one school is going to make you a better front end dev .. pick a cheap one, get your degree, and while doing that build as much as you can, work on oss if you can, and practice practice practice .. that'll help you land a job

[vast shoal]

I don't think you should get too hung up on Python in particular. When you study CS, they introduce you to a few languages and teach you other concepts through those languages, but that doesn't mean once you graduate, you're only certified to work with those languages. Over the course of your career, you will be exposed to dozens of different languages in different contexts. So, I wouldn't think too much in terms of what you can do with Python, but rather try to figure out what kind of stuff you want to build and what area you wanna work in, and maybe then ask what technologies are relevant in order to achieve that.

[pseudo helm]

web dev, systems dev, devops/sre work ...

[smoky quest]

what is surprising to you?

And yes, frontend is not considered a super advanced field. There is no advanced research on frontend where the school would make any difference. If anything, you would be wasting your time and dollars to chase stanford/mit/berkley/georgiatech for frontend.

I don't mean it in a demeaning manner. It's still hard work and rewarding. But it's not as theoretical or complex as other areas of CS.

(one could point out UX research or some other adjacent fields, but that would not help with the original question)

[real oyster]

Thank you this is very helpful 🙂

[real oyster]

Thank you I’ll take a look into some of these roles

[spare ravine]

1

[frosty wigeon]

Hello everyone. I’d love to have your suggestions. I’m currently studying cp science technology in Montreal Canada. I was told I could find myself an internship during summer. Do you guys know potential companies interested in hiring students? I’ve studied C#, Java, Web Dev, SQL. Thank you kindly for any hint.

[dawn crypt]

is there anyone who does freelancing?

Is there a way I can tag along with someone who already does it so I can gain experience?

get good reviews on Upwork, Freelancer or Guru?

[summer roost]

!rule 9 - we don't allow advertisements on our server.

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[summer roost]

!rule 6 also

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[gritty rivet]

See rule 9, but anyway... Whether you're working solo or with others, you still need to prove your skills to get experience, which means if you can't paid work, build your portfolio with personal projects first so you can. Or join a hackathon and/or contribute to open source projects if you are really eager to collaborate

[tiny mortar]

my fellow canadian, are you in co-op?

[tiny mortar]

im in my final year of my CS major but i dont feel confident as a programmer. What should I do

[vast shoal]

Maybe try getting some practical experience by contributing to an OSS project.

[fiery niche]

My fellow Canadian, are you in co-op?

if so, you definitely shouldn't feel so bad about your abilities! You're already miles ahead of students who graduate without any internships

If it's hardcore DS&A that you don't feel confident in leetcode/geeks4geeks is free

[dry sapphire]

CMV: using time-bound leetcode questions for anything more than an initial screening mechanism is bad

[primal sky]

just how i edit a slashcontext object ?

[gritty rivet]

Try #python-discussion or somewhere else relevant, this is #career-advice

[polar cipher]

Could you list out five jobs that require lesser coding skills in IT or Data science field？It would help me decide for my future job planning very much！

[dry bronze]

I will complete my school education within 5 months and so..after that iam planning to take computer science subject for my higher studies ( basically programing and coding) so what all thing should I do from now to have a easy collage life like what all skills should I develop to become a better programmer??

[orchid girder]

i have created a project that says your age wiht not asking ur age

[ivory sluice]

having an easy college life/being academically successful & becoming a better programmer are not one and the same. there'll be some overlap but it is possible to be an amazing programmer and terrible student. how are you as a student now?

[dry bronze]

Iam good at studies...

And I love doing coding

As a whole iam doing good as a student!

I may succeed in cs or maybe not 😔iam a bit afraid of that

[ivory sluice]

ok that's good! it will be more difficult in college in that you'll have to create and maintain self-discipline, so build up those habits starting now.

[dry bronze]

Okey! I guess I have them :)

[ivory sluice]

:) the uncertainty is normal, but don't let it trip you up or prevent you from going for the CS degree

so i think for now if you are learning python you can start writing your own projects for fun. if you get bored with that make more complex projects or branch out into other programming languages. CS degrees are also not limited to learning programming so an interest in math i think will serve you well also. my friends in CS degrees actually did not write a lot of code at all (for school)

[vast shoal]

In my personal experience, uni was significantly harder than high school, but only because I had basically been just coasting along until then, relying on my natural talent to get by without having to do much work. It took me a couple of years before I really managed to develop good study technique, and once I did, I found uni to be pretty manageable.

[halcyon lichen]

he guys anyone knows about upgrad , great learning or jigsaw academy data science courses

[glacial halo]

$100k annual salary- is it decent? (Seattle)

I just dunno the rates for that city and US at all

[true harness]

you can look at sites like glassdoor

[glacial halo]

COL?

[ivory sluice]

that sounds livable, but that doesn't indicate whether it's low or high for the job description

[glacial halo]

🤔 Well, my q is - am I gonna survive on this money, or I can save up for a house

[true harness]

seattle ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[glacial halo]

is it too demanding about money state?

[ivory sluice]

i'm not actually familiar with Seattle specifically, but it is a metropolis so

so besides the location, you have to check whether that compensation is competitive for the specific job title & description

[glacial halo]

Well, lemme explain. In Moscow $3k per month (we never count per year/annual) looks SO BIG for ppl, and thats normal for senior lvl. So $100k for its just... space sum

[ivory sluice]

sure. do you have an offer for a job in seattle? are they going to sponsor you for a visa?

[glacial halo]

yeah, I have an offer, but I have some troubles with visa

cuz we havent US consulate and I need to go to Poland

[dapper depot]

it isn't, it's much more than livable everywhere

[shadow moss]

They said they will sponsor you? What visa type?

[glacial halo]

Work visa

H1B

[shadow moss]

Ok, that’s lottery so you may or may not get it

[glacial halo]

why if I have an offer

[summer roost]

Having a company that's willing to sponsor you for an H1B visa is one requirement for getting the visa, but it's not the only requirement. In any given year there's more people who want H1B visas than the US government is willing to grant, and so there's also a random luck component for which of the applicants get the visa.

[orchid ivy]

it's not guaranteed that you'll be granted the visa as gobblegeek pointed out.

[glacial halo]

google says that H1B - narrow-profile specialist

US doesnt need specialists?

no offence but Im bot pizza cleaner or delivery man

[summer roost]

immigration is a touchy subject in most countries, honestly. There's always some nationalists who say that all those specialist jobs should be going to citizens who can be trained for them, and globalists who say that bringing in talented people helps the entire country grow. And the laws reflect that, and wind up balancing between competing concerns

[orchid ivy]

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b

[glacial halo]

nationalists
US
???????????????????????????

Do they know the history

[summer roost]

heh, "no" is probably the most accurate answer

[orchid ivy]

lol. the us is a services country. it's run by money, not humanities.

[summer roost]

but rather than getting into politics here, the simple fact of the matter is that the US doesn't allow unlimited immigration, and because more people want to immigrate to the US than the US is willing to allow, H-1B visas are given out randomly.

[orchid ivy]

moral of the story: you should be asking your future employer all of these questions. don't just assume they'll cover you.

[glacial halo]

Well, theres many ppl who wanna go to US, but not everybody r specialists

[summer roost]

the bar for "specialist" is relatively low, honestly.

[glacial halo]

I dont think so that >50% gonna US with H1B visa

[summer roost]

the US gives out fewer than 200,000 H1B visas per year, and more than 200k people apply for one each year.

[glacial halo]

can academic degree help me?

бакалавр/bachelor (5 years)
magistracy (Im here) (2)
assistant professor (2)
Professor, well its professor

[summer roost]

if that translates to a Master's Degree, then yes, it is helpful - there's still a lottery, but people with Master's Degrees have an extra chance in the lottery

[orchid ivy]

it might. there are certain quotas to be met

[glacial halo]

I just dont get the system

[orchid ivy]

it's a lotto. lol

i.e. there is no guarantee

[glacial halo]

I spend 7 years in university, have a high-paid job here (3 times more than average in Moscow and 10 times in others cities). I know many things, Im ready to learn the law, pay taxes and smb else can just win the lotto nevertheless he hasnt all of that?

He just won the lotto, gj

*and I have an offer, Im not gonna be homeless etc

[orchid ivy]

yes, exactly. you may qualify for the master's quota. but someone in the regular h1-b who doesn't have a similar background, may still be granted the visa.

[glacial halo]

is it still lotto?

[summer roost]

yep.

[orchid ivy]

yes.

[glacial halo]

theres must be some reason for why they did this like that

[orchid ivy]

well, yeah. the law still has to protect similarly employed U.S. workers (i.e. citizens) from being adversely affected by employment of nonimmigrants

[smoky quest]

The lottery is only if the quota has been reached like on the same day they open up the visa. Otherwise no lottery for h1b

There are extra quota/priorities for higher education applicants, like masters or phd

[glacial halo]

lgtm

[summer roost]

in 2019, the cap was reached in 5 days, it seems.

[smoky quest]

note also the timelines too. Visa applications start in april, but they only get delivered in sept. So if the quota for this year is already gone, that means you won't get to the USA until at the earliest in Sept 2022

Neither good nor bad, but something to be aware of

[glacial halo]

yhh, I read that ppl have been waiting for 2 years to get green card, looks like I need to decline the offer (rip annual $100k)

[summer roost]

green card is an entirely different process, with many more applicants as I understand

[orchid ivy]

money will always come later.

[smoky quest]

you won't have to wait for 2 years

the quota for a given year gets released on April 1st. You will know pretty quickly if you got accepted or not

[summer roost]

really, you should talk this all over with the company that has offered to sponsor you. I'm sure they've done this before, and can explain what the process looks like to you. They may even have other ways to get you into the country if the H-1B isn't granted - they might be able to help you get an L-1 visa, or something like that, as well.

[smoky quest]

Sponsoring a H1B visa is pretty expensive and time consuming on the company side. You won't find many companies willing to do it for you. So if you find one, don't give up so easily

[orchid ivy]

or you can just marry someone in the us to get a green card

[glacial halo]

on some site I read that I can get the visa as investor (need to invest $900k) is it good idea 🤔

I have this money (all my money lol)

[smoky quest]

h1b is more straightforward and less risky

once you are in, you can easily transfert it to any other company without any quota or anything in the way other than the 3-4 weeks of processing

[glacial halo]

Well, besides visa I scary bout laws and interview. Thats another country with anothers laws, traditional etc. For example we havent 401k. And thats good that Ik bout that. But how many this 401k?

[orchid ivy]

lol 401k, more like 201k. but that's up to your discretion how much you contribute.

[glacial halo]

And Im talking not bout benefits, like at all. R company appreciate that u can drive a car?

[smoky quest]

It's your retirement fund. Typically you put some, the company match some and tehre is some limits per year

[glacial halo]

I know whats the 401k

[smoky quest]

why would a company gives a shit if you can drive a car? They hire you for your CS skills, not delivery

[smoky quest]

so what's the problem?

[glacial halo]

looks like u dont get it. lemme think how to explain this

[smoky quest]

It's probably best you make a list about the life in the USA and your questions around that. The good news is you have some time to do some research. Note however there are a lot of false impressions and I would recommend to look for US sources for US specific questions

Note also that in the tech field, you will be in a bubble. Companies will pamper you with great benefits and compensation. Unlike some lower qualified jobs

[summer roost]

there is a different culture, and different norms. People who emigrate often have culture shock, and often wind up feeling socially isolated, thanks to leaving friends and family behind.

[glacial halo]

I cant create an example, but in Russia everybody have some rules for IT specialist and Im not sure that its the same for US.

[summer roost]

on the up side, your quality of life will likely be higher in the US than it is in Moscow - though you'll be moving from an area where you make 3x the median income to one where you'd be making 2x, but my impression is that the baseline quality of life in Seattle is higher than Moscow.

[smoky quest]

There is a huge russian community in the US. You may want to look them up.

[glacial halo]

not sure, US > Russian, but Moscow = 85-90% of all money in Russia

[smoky quest]

Comparing to teachers and co, you would make > 10x (in the tech centers)

[summer roost]

Seattle's median income is ~$50k, so a job that pays ~$100k is 2x.

but yes, there's obviously jobs that pay much less than the median, since that's what a median is 🙂

[glacial halo]

I dont care bout am I gonna make more money than others, I care am I gonna get more than I have rn

[smoky quest]

100k$ in the USA is entry level right now. The total compensation, which includes stocks/options can bring the total to > 500k after a few years

[summer roost]

sure, that's obviously true as well - your initial compensation won't be the most you'll ever make.

[smoky quest]

considering @glacial halo has mentioned being in the field for 7 years, I would expect them to be > 150k (cash) in most locations

[summer roost]

they named a number above, and it was $100k

[glacial halo]

☝️

I thought thats too many (or much, can u count the money)

[smoky quest]

which city? Seattle?

is it google?

[glacial halo]

nope

[summer roost]

my guess would've been Amazon.

[smoky quest]

ok, that makes more sense. But that's why they are sponsoring you then. They are scewing you up

Is it for normal software engineering role or something more specific?

[glacial halo]

mostly software engineering and some specific

T-shaped, if u know whats that

[smoky quest]

are we talking like mobile/backend/frontend/ml type or more exotic?

[glacial halo]

backend

[summer roost]

that's an entry-level salary in the US - that's around what someone who just graduated from college with a BS degree in computer science would make. If your level of experience is much higher than that, it does sound like they'd be underpaying.

[orchid ivy]

even so, you should know your worth. if you have 7yr of experience, and they're only offering 100k base, you're getting low-balled.

[smoky quest]

yeah, then I have seen employers low balling h1bs like that. But as soon as they arrived, they then found another job paying them a more appropriate normal rate and leaving within a few weeks 😄
Just make sure there aren't any weird clauses in your employment contract

[glacial halo]

I cant cuz dunno US laws!!

[smoky quest]

Most likely there would be some clauses about paying back the h1b fees if you leave within X months, but with a salary that low, any new job would still be more profitable after paying back the h1b fees

[orchid ivy]

you have the internet at your disposal. it's not enough to say you don't know. just research and ask questions.

[summer roost]

if you have $900k to use for an investor visa, you can afford $1k to hire an immigration lawyer.

[smoky quest]

educate yourself. Ignorance is not an excuse

[glacial halo]

I mean, laws - thousands * thousands pages of some rules, and thats too hard to read and understand that. plus im not a native/C2/C1 eng lvl

[glacial halo]

I will have this amount only if I will sell everything

[smoky quest]

So are the ~80k h1b visa people coming every year. Yet they find ways

[summer roost]

there are immigration lawyers who are totally familiar with every part of this process. Paying for their expertise will likely go a long way to making you feel more comfortable in your understanding of the process, and whether what you're being offered is a fair deal.

[smoky quest]

And the great part with immigration lawyers is that they have seen your case many times. For you, it's your first time and all new.

[glacial halo]

so, looks like the last q - am I wanna be in US

[summer roost]

I don't see how anyone but you can decide that. It likely has some advantages and some disadvantages over staying where you are, and you would need to weigh those and decide what's best for you.

[glacial halo]

in a few days ago a grandfather was sentenced to 3 years (conditionally) for an anecdote/joke bout the army
looks like thats a con for russia...

However, thx @summer roost, @smoky quest @orchid ivy for help!

[orchid ivy]

good luck with the job process 🙂 always here to help

[smoky quest]

you don't have to finish your life in the USA either. Many people come for a few years and go back.
H1B is a non-immigrant visa after all

[icy blade]

how i can code image editor

[glacial halo]

Choose any help channel for that

[smoky quest]

repeating the same question over and over won't help.
Also this is the wrong channel. This is #career-advice

[glacial halo]

as I know after 3-5 years I can get a green card

[smoky quest]

yep, that's possible and what many people do

[glacial halo]

Can I have russian passport and green card simultaneously?

yeah, ppl say I can

[ivory sluice]

yes, green card != citizenship, it's permanent residency

[smoky quest]

yes

Even passports can get complicated. Some countries don't care if you carry other passports than their own, while some others understand multiple passports and some others force you to choose.
I don't know where Russia stands on that though

[summer roost]

even stamps in passports can get complicated. There are countries that won't let you in if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport, I've heard...

not really related, beyond "countries have stupid rules"

[glacial halo]

yhh, If u were in Крым (I was there 2 times), and after that go to Ukraine, u could go to prison for 3 years

[smoky quest]

yep, that's true

[glacial halo]

I need to be vaccinated by pfizer?

What US government use vs covid

[summer roost]

3 vaccines are approved for use in the US - the Pfizer/BioNTech one, the Moderna one, and the Johnson & Johnson one.

If someone gets vaccinated in the US, they get one of those. I'm not sure whether more than those 3 are accepted for someone travelling to the US.

[glacial halo]

well, in russia we have only Sputnik-V

and lite version

[smoky quest]

I thought it's based the ones accepted by WHO. But note that things can change a lot between now and 2022/9

[summer roost]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/proof-of-vaccination.html#covid-vaccines looks relevant - and doesn't seem to include Sputnik V AFAICS

[glacial halo]

yhh ik that its not

Eupore doesnt count sputnik-V as vaccine too

[mighty karma]

Entry level for Juniors? If so I'm being screwed. Also hello I've been lurking for months.

[vapid jay]

today we ask the age old question, what da dog doing?

[full sage]

We will never know...

[vapid jay]

when what the dog doing is a code

[smoky quest]

there is no entry level for seniors... so yes?

also why would you be screwed? It's much higher than many other jobs

[sick sable]

Probably means the pay is much less at work

[last quail]

could i get some help with m python code

[summer roost]

That depends a lot on the company, and the region. But $100k is a good bet for what a good tech company in the US will pay juniors in a relatively high cost of living area.

[karmic token]

totally depends on the job

front end web developers typically get paid less than most other fields

also like they said hugely depends on where you're working
the same job can range from 40k to 120k depending on where you're at in the world

[summer roost]

Web developers at a company where the website is the product tend to get paid better than web developers at companies where the web site is used to sell the product, also.

A company that sees itself as a tech company is likely more willing to pay a good rate for talent than a company that sees developers as just a necessary business expense

[neon pond]

Hello! I'm a writer and former Python coder (who's looking to get back into it sooner than later). Currently, I'm working on an article for an international tech news site about the new kinds of jobs/opportunities created by the pandemic - I'm looking to speak with anyone in India / South Asia who's left a traditional tech job and is trying something new out. If this is you, please DM me! PS. You can choose to remain anonymous for the story. We'll have a 20-25 min chat about your journey and why/how you made the decisions you did.

[tardy nacelle]

Hello guys i am creating one phoneBook and i want have possible remove one contact. i hv all objects in one list how can i remove one object from input?

[buoyant seal]

https://www.who.int/news-room/news-updates
https://extranet.who.int/pqweb/sites/default/files/documents/Status_COVID_VAX_11Nov2021.pdf
monitoring same thing. Sputnik V was approved in 70 countris and has highest chances to get approved in world health organization. But it is still in progress. Perhaps in a half of a year it will change

Or perhaps some day we'll have access to smth besides Sputnik 5

P.S. linked PDF has latest current status of approval for all vaccines

Wait a second.

At last, we have an almost free option to get vaccinated by world approved vaccines
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/croatia-now-most-popular-vaccine-tourism-destination-among-russians/

[gritty rivet]

remove() might be sufficient but you're in the wrong channel, try #python-discussion

[orchid breach]

Hey guys

[final ravine]

How about remote?

[safe loom]

It's hard to maintain yourself while looking for a job because i'm having a programming fallback where I can't produce any line of code unless i'm sure I end up somewhere. Happened to me in winter 2019-2020 and it's happening again. I want to keep up in shape without having an adverse reaction to it (eg. "it's too hard" or "I'll do that later"). Any idea how?

Am I experimenting a burnout?

[frosty wigeon]

How's it going my fellow maple leaf? What do you mean by co-op? I live in MTL how about you?

[summer roost]

They meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_education - it's a type of internship program

[summer roost]

Sounds like it - it sounds like the stress of job hunting is causing you to detach from enjoying programming for fun/as a hobby

[safe loom]

Yeah because I'm far from being in an easy situation. Wish I had a long stable income without being threatened with poverty all the time

[summer roost]

hopefully you land a job soon!

[verbal lava]

Hello Everyone

[steel pivot]

Hey guys! newbie here, if I want to start learning python, what would be the best website for it?

[mighty karma]

Go through all the tutorials on https://www.w3schools.com/python/ first. You can follow along on web IDE like https://replit.com/languages/python3 without having to install anything locally, but eventually you should download Python and an IDE like VS Code so you can have a local dev environment. From there, you can check Youtube for beginner projects to start getting the gears turning. I also highly recommend https://automatetheboringstuff.com/, which has projects that are easy to set up and show how many cool, practical things there are to make with Python even in the beginning.

[vital beacon]

I want to get a job in the IT field. I'm going into a 2 year business diploma as IT is something that I can do by myself along with the diploma and the business diploma would add-up to the portfolio. Which IT job would be the best for me?

In your reply include " @vital beacon " so that i get the notification of your reply

[gritty rivet]

The job that's best for you is the one that fits your skills and interests, which you haven't said much about. If you're starting from zero, the most common entry level IT jobs that don't require a four year degree are desktop support and help desk. Most anything beyond that require some kind of specialized skills. There are lots of possibilities but we can't decide for you which one fits you. Data analyst is one that overlaps between business and tech but 4 year degree is common for that

I would recommend looking at job listings in your area and research any fields that look interesting to you

[vital beacon]

Im interested in automation and data science

[gritty rivet]

In that case, I would just build a portfolio of projects in that area.

[vital beacon]

how hard would it be to get an 1) python automation job 2) data science; without degree but with projects in portfolio

[gritty rivet]

With a good enough portfolio it's hard but definitely possible

[vital beacon]

yes, how hard? 1. coursera certifications 2. bootcamp certification. How much easier would 1 or 2 make to get job

[gritty rivet]

You get what you put in. A good bootcamp is worth a whole lot, but maybe not worth it if you have the discipline to learn enough and network on your own and if you have a lot more time than money

[vital beacon]

what about coursera

[pseudo helm]

As a hiring manager I'd definitely prefer to see a bootcamp over just coursera, but what I really want to see is a willingness to learn.

[gritty rivet]

I don't know much about it, but you should take advantage of whatever learning tools make sense to you. If you can find people who list a course or bootcamp on their LinkedIn or a review site, ask them what they think

[pseudo helm]

Learn. Build. Learn. Build. Keep going.

[vital beacon]

um thanks

[pseudo helm]

I mentored at bootcamps (paid and unpaid ones) and hired from both. It mostly came down to what MORE did they do beyond the bootcamps. Get involved in a project. Build stuff in public. Show that you're voracious about learning.

[vital beacon]

Thanks for advice @pseudo helm

[marsh wind]

Data Science without degree is probably impossible in most places

[balmy spade]

What's "most places" being defined as here geographically? Curious.

[frosty wigeon]

Thank you kindly.

[deep flicker]

Has anyone ever worked on a project that was mainly just refactoring and splitting up applications into microservices?

[verbal lava]

Thank you. This is very helpful

[vapid jay]

How much should I ask for remote data analyst or entry level django dev? (with no experience)

[gritty rivet]

You ask potential employers what range they have in mind and you negotiate accordingly. For a US-based job $50-60k/year is pretty reasonable but you could maybe do better. But you really don't want to be the one to name any numbers first if you can help it

[vapid jay]

I forgot to tell you that I'm an Asian. Expecting to do a remote job from home. (if that changes the situation)

[faint bloom]

I'm a poor collage student who knows python, is there any places I can go for freelance work, or at least anywhere for professional certifications?

[vital beacon]

@marsh wind and automation?

(python automation, data analyst, data science) How difficult it is to get job in these field with respect to webdevelopment? Use percentages.

[summer roost]

percentage of what?

and what country are you trying to get a job in?

[vital beacon]

percentage of each stream’s difficulty to get job in as compared to web development.

[vital beacon]

Toronto, Canada

[summer roost]

and you're trying to get a job without a university degree?

[marsh wind]

Loosely defined 😁 after talking with many people both here and in other places it would seem that in EU countries, USA, UK, india employers are not keen on hiring into data scientist positions people without a degree. For other countries I don't have any info but doubt that it's much different....

[near ocean]

This isnt something quantifiable, its just harder on average to find a job without a degree

[vital beacon]

yes

[vital beacon]

i think finding job in web development without degree is way easier than finding it in data science without degrre

[near ocean]

It probably would be but the difference in the two is still not quantifiable
Its easier to build a portfolio for webdev because its more visual than other things, even non technical people can look at a webapp and go "wow"

[summer roost]

In both cases it's much, much easier to get a job if you first get a degree.

[rotund crest]

I've been on a job hunt in Canada and I could not fathom how impossible it would feel without a degree. A couple months ago one of the companies I was interviewing for accidentally sent me a file containing all the resumes of the applicants to me instead of the hiring manager and I was wowed by just how strong and seemingly endless the candidate pool was.

[vital beacon]

@summer roost @rotund crest @near ocean I would have a business diploma too though, would it make finding job easier? Also use @vital beacon so that i could get notification of your message

[plush galleon]

What do you mean by "business diploma"?

[vital beacon]

a 2 year program of international business.

[plush galleon]

Is this a certificate?

[vital beacon]

it's a 2 year program of college, which can be extended into a business degree if i spend 2 years extra. It's basically like half degree. Its strange to see you haven't heard of diplomas. @plush galleon

[rotund crest]

I don't have enough experience to comment. From observing my friends, if their 2 year programs didn't specifically have a work placement for them that all but guaranteed employment, they were sent down a pretty miserable path. The ones that got placed into work right at graduation did okay.

[plush galleon]

In my country, if you complete part of your degree, you don't get anything and undergraduate studies last 3 years

[wicked scaffold]

i have done my diploma in computer engg. and currently in final year of my BSC degree in CS. i have worked with python. I have basic knowledge of data structures. and recently started datascience and machine learning. i know web scraping, data cleaning, feature engineering, training testing data, all that basic beginner ML stuff. i have never had any internship or job experience. i am very less confident about my skills. whenever i think of applying for job/internship i can only think that i lack something. please someone can explain me a few things? i want to know what actually is doing job like? what do u do? what is a day like to a data analyst or scientist? may i have some examples so i can imagine how it is in actuality? also finally, how can i get rid of this lack of skill feeling? what can i do to feel enough confident that i can do good with just knowing python?

i live in india

[balmy rivet]

why many great codes are publicly free? why makes it free and how the author earn their living? such as library plotly , backtrader etc

[silver fossil]

Maybe what I think is most of the maintainers already have a decent job

[dry sapphire]

some are supported by foundations

some get donations

[dry sapphire]

this happens too

[gritty rivet]

A lot of questions there but basically the way you gain confidence is practice. Personal projects, freelance work on platforms like UpWork, contribute to open source projects or hackathons, etc

[plush galleon]

Upwork isn't really freelancing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1FZ-DXb4Ts

[summer roost]

Easier than if you had no diploma, but still much harder than if you had a degree in computer science or mathematics, or some other degree that's directly related to the job you're trying to get, I expect.

[mortal silo]

hey!

i was wondering what it would take to become a software engineer as i want to become one myself and as i am still in school i am using python and wanted to know how i could accomplish the course and what the best method for learning python coding is.

[final ravine]

Like high school? Do you plan to go to university/college?

[leaden charm]

yo guys urgent anybody ever done some work on upwork?

I just finished some code for a fixed contract, how do I avoid getting scammed?
Should the client put money in the escrow before I send him anything?

[final ravine]

Yes

Tbh don't send stuff until you get paid, with software

Maybe demo it on video

[primal fiber]

Perhaps show them proof that the thing actually works and stuff, and then u can organise something like they pay u send

[final ravine]

Software is a seller's market

[gritty rivet]

It's been a while but I never had a problem. I think they pay into escrow for fixed rate jobs by default so just follow UpWork's standard procedures and you should be fine

[sand geyser]

Hello, could I bother anybody for help on a research assignment? It involves a quick interview of 5 questions. I'll send proof of the assignment if you need it, but I just need to conduct a short interview over zoom from anybody that works within the development or engineering field

And if this is not allowed, please inform me

[faint bloom]

So are there any accredited online certifications I can get to help with my qualifications?

[nocturne arrow]

Yes, but which certification depends on the type of position you're looking for and the type of companies you're applying to.

Almost every company with a software development branch is utilizing AWS in one way or another. The ones that aren't are probably using Google cloud or Azure

[mighty karma]

(I just realized this was a room, sorry about the double post!) Hey, I know you all must see this question a lot, but it seems too good to be true to me:

https://www.builtinchicago.org/salaries/dev-engineer/junior-software-engineer/chicago

If I exceed all of the requirements for a junior dev role, would it be unreasonable of me to reference this in a counter offer if I am offered less than $110K?

[smoky quest]

maybe?
It depends a lot on the negotiation skills of both parties, how wide is their band and how impressed and willing to go is the hiring manager.

The best argument is a real counter offer

[lone viper]

is it worth continuing in CS related major even tho i have no confidence in my coding skill 🥲

[smoky quest]

yes. That would also be fixing the wrong problem

[lone viper]

it just feels absolutely garbage not being able to finish my python assignment in 6 weeks

[smoky quest]

make a post-mortem so you can improve the situation.
It comes down to understanding what were the problems, making a list out of them, and then making a plan to address them

[smoky quest]

and just to cut the chase, not having confidence in my coding skill is not a reason or a specific problem or root cause.
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_whys

[lone viper]

maybe im just subconsciously ignoring what im not good at and end up ruining myself more

[smoky quest]

try to go through the five whys. But again "subconscious" is also not a reason 🙂

[balmy spade]

I'll double down on the suggestion of the 5 whys. applying them in practice alters the understanding of situations amazingly.

[lone viper]

i will try to take it to heart

[elder beacon]

Would part time dev experience count towards anything? I'm currently an unofficial dev at my company and to supplement that I started part-timing at a startup as backend dev. It's not paid but the experience is useful.

[verbal lava]

i'm currently lookinh for internships in the Houston area

[real oyster]

honestly man I’m a cs student too and I majorly feel like I suck at it sometimes. But I just push through and try and accept the mistakes and try and learn from them. And I think I’m improving😅

Idk if that helps at all but I would say don’t give up 🙂

[left snow]

hey buddy

anyone are online now??

[safe loom]

Why is finding something atm so hard with only 1 year of experience. Why is that HR managers want something with 6+ years of experience + a degree in CS

[dry sapphire]

I love this

I've seen many times people just get into autopilot mode and randomly change stuff in the hope that things will get better

[vapid jay]

I want to know how to find a career path, started learning python, left java. how can I buildup myself. found lots of paths and advices on YouTube etc. but most of them kind of hard to achieve in Asia region. I dont have any kind of degree in any field too. 🙂

[near ocean]

how old are you and how hard would it be for you to get a degree

[gritty rivet]

I don't mean this in a negative way, but consider seeing a therapist. It sounds like your emotions and negative self-talk may be getting in the way there. A professional can help you understand how to let go of all that. Sometimes a single visit is all it takes to put things in perspective, but it might take more

Here's one idea that I learned about from a therapist and that helps me a lot when I'm discouraged by how difficult it is to learn some things: https://www.mindsethealth.com/matter/growth-vs-fixed-mindset

[lone viper]

I appreciate this all thank you everyone

[tribal orchid]

#databases pls

[analog maple]

Are there any non-occupied helping channels ?

[analog sun]

#❓｜how-to-get-help should show 3 that are available

[scenic spoke]

I am not asking for legal advice, just some input on others experience.

So we recently contracted a DevOps Engineer to our team that just so happens to be a long time personal friend (He was helping me with doing devOps stuff before, so my boss just decided to pay him to do it, since im not a devops engineer). He works for another company full-time and for us part-time. He has been asking me for some help with app development stuff at his other job lately, and so I asked if they needed a Full-Stack developer because I would be interested in doing a contract with them. But he told me that the contract he signed with the company I work for, that he was not allowed to work with any employee of our company outside of our company for a period of 1 year after the end of his contract.

Is my company allowed to stop me from doing something via another employees employment contract? Can my company really do anything about me taking a position at my friends company, or contracting services to them?

Our companies couldn't be further apart in market space, my company works in retail and freight salvage, and his company works in private sector contracts for DoD.

[smoky quest]

That's a standard provision in the US. It's typically meant to avoid two (or more) employees going on their own adventures or poaching of people when moving to another job

Sometimes it may or may not include a specific blurb about "current" employment and just focus on after you leave. But that's specific to each contract/company

So to be safe, if I was doing something like that, it would probably require an approval for the company

[scenic spoke]

Yeah, I guess I will have to have him dig deeper into the contract. My boss is extremely toxic and is also the CTO and so I am looking to leave, and don't want my friend to get in trouble if I were to get a job working with them.

[vapid jay]

That guy loves to hate "The Man" . He is always so angry lol. He has so go advice though

[plush galleon]

What is DoD?

[scenic spoke]

Department of defense, US

[plush galleon]

What do you mean by "The Man"?

He's often angry and his life isn't as bad as he likes to pretend

[plush galleon]

I was going to say that it depends on your country but I don't know much about laws in US

A relative of mine has a contrat has a clause more abusive than that but since it's illegal in my country they don't care about this clause as of yet

[icy ether]

Good evening!
Please advise interesting projects for a junior backender)
Something without using the front

Now finished telegram bot and shortener URL

There are a lot of projects on the Internet search, but they are all from the front, and I want to practice working with the API and working with the postman

[opal plaza]

Hi there. I'm a recent grad looking for software positions. I'm on the last part of my final round interview for a backend software engineer position. Thus far, I've talked with the hiring managers and tech leads. I'll be talking with the QA/testing team soon, which I haven't done before in previous final rounds. What can I expect or prepare for?

[obsidian acorn]

Considering they are the qa/testing team, that means, most of their technical questions will be around testing, such as about testing suites (pytest/unit test), regression testing, testing data generation via api, or automated, and so on. They may not ask about all these, they may ask about more.

[vapid jay]

I have no time to prepare for a degree, 30 yrs now. If I am into a degree, it will get me another 4 yrs of my time. I just want to do something "quick". I know learning takes time. today some (maybe most IT companies) companies hire ppl as to their abilities rather than a degree. That's a good trend. problem is I only have about one year to be a junior developer. 😩

[obsidian acorn]

that's good. a lot of people are starting with literally nothing, which is less than you have. Are you considering bootcamps?

[hollow yacht]

What's the formality for thank you emails after an interview? Is it recommended to send an email to the interviewer(s)? If I do, should I also send one to the recruiter who I've been doing most of the correspondence with and they also set up the interview, even if they weren't in the actual interview?

[vapid jay]

there are no bootcamps here around this region, they maybe in India 🙂

[vapid jay]

It looks like I have to learn alone 😐

[obsidian acorn]

most boot camps are online, depending on what you want to pursue. Most of them start with Full stack as starter, then, software eng, and many other options. But if physical boot camps will not do, you can do online. Other wise, yeah, groups, alone, and get feedback here are other options.

[smoky quest]

you can thank the "the team" and call out specific people/time as needed

[hollow yacht]

Do you mean like just send a general thank you and cc the people involved? (In my case it is two interviewers and the recruiter)

[smoky quest]

typically, that would go to the hiring manager. But it's pretty open in terms of practice. I would trust more your judgement

[smoky quest]

What kind of job are you looking for?
Any job?

webdev and tech support or IT or general wordpress support can be an entry point if you aren't picky

[vapid jay]

I am learning python, so I want a path related with python. web dev?? maybe this path?

[smoky quest]

This one is a bit more complete: https://roadmap.sh/
But doing it all in less than a year will be really rough, especially starting from scratch.

[smoky quest]

also note that frontend is easier to get into than backend

[vapid jay]

sure, thanks 🙂

[haughty flint]

Hello, I am starting out to learn python for data science. Anyone can suggest me reliable courses I can take up for the same? Is there anything I should keep in mind switching into data science/analysis? Is there any business aspects I should be learning before applying for the profile?

[wicked scaffold]

well we are on the same track. i am learning from Applied AI Course. as well as a native language course i.e hindi (freely available on youtube). may be we can keep sharing our work and learn together? hit me up in dm. i am ready to share u sm learning resources too.

[fierce quiver]

guys i have one doubt

we can do games with python

Please can anyone tell

[tawdry basin]

If you meant by creating games then yes, you can create games in python

[tawdry basin]

It depends, if you are interested in web thingy then go for it

[rotund crest]

Is it common to get a job offer without any room for negotiation? HR said that they simply put all my background information into a matrix and it spits out a number, more or less end of story. I can't help but kind of raise my eyebrows because although this job is much more stable and a pay increase when benefits are factored in, it is maybe only a 10% pay bump and I think I am probably being underpaid; I was expecting a larger number for the role.

[buoyant seal]

where can I see the map fully?

[vapid jay]

https://coggle.it/diagram/XgtVOa6K4obH730X/t/🐍💻-python-developer-roadmap-💻🐍/0b172b9775a0f8f50c3cda856b4e3bd59c3f7c53f53f63282d116d69447072fe

[buoyant seal]

not the fullest and sometimes outdated map, but definitely nice. Since u were looking to web dev, I would mention FastAPI there as an option too

[vapid jay]

thanks, what do u thin about front end and backend ? I think backend would be better than frontend to me, I am prone to learn how things really works behind the screen and less graphical 😍

[buoyant seal]

surely. go for backend

then in some time, in a year, two or smth, u can always try frontend too

[vapid jay]

sure 🙂

[buoyant seal]

that's what i did 😉

a year was diving into backend. then out of curiosity tried frontend.
after some comparison I think I still like backend more.
although there is some nice things about frontend too.

[vapid jay]

yep. 😋

[marsh wind]

I've never heard about this unless it's some kind of governmental or other regulated position. But unless the pay is really defined by some kind of law or regulated by project funding (this might happen) then there should be always room to negotiate.

[rotund crest]

I'm a bit leery to try to negotiate because I simultaneously think I oversold myself a little bit. I am hesitant to over ask and under deliver, but the salary is on the low end of the job title for sure.

[neon coral]

Just asking but how much knowledge do you have to have in code for electrical engineering?

[safe loom]

Question for people working in freelance in data science. How do you manage computation tasks rich in vRAM? Do you have to pay cloud services?

[near ocean]

Salaries popped out of a program without negotiation sounds like a massive red flag tbh

[gritty rivet]

This is the career channel. If you're looking to be a professional game dev, you'll need to learn other languages. If you just want to have fun making games in Python, you can absolutely do that, see #game-development

[gritty rivet]

There is nothing stopping a company from doing this, just as there is nothing stopping you from rejecting their offer or persistently arguing for a better one. I don't think it's uncommon for companies to be stubborn on their initial offer

[sonic sluice]

Yo I'm a Highschool student currently learning python and javascript on udemy ,with having these skills currently what could I do ,like for example what i am saying is would i be able to get like a job in webdeveloping etc
Planning on studying between software engineer or computer science still deciding
This might be a really dumb question lol but thanks to anyone who answers
Im mainly asking because i wanna start freelancing mid-next year

[dark lintel]

Any tips to get a remote job while living in Latin America? I currently work as a Jr. Data Scientist here

[gritty rivet]

Worth a try, just build stuff and build stuff and keep practicing. If you want to know what kind of freelance work is in demand check platforms like UpWork or Fiverr

[sonic sluice]

ye im currently just watching upwork seeing the different jobs ,but like its a bit confusing cause i know that web developer need like certain skills but every other thing i dont know about and thats what i wanted help with

[gritty rivet]

There are lots of frameworks and tools out there and you can't possibly learn them all. As you learn more through doing stuff hands on, you also learn what you are most interested in focusing on

[near ocean]

you could look at what the postings in your area ask for and start with that, eg. for me in the UK the hot tech right now is dotnet core, react, php (laravel mostly), redux, etc

[surreal bronze]

@sonic sluice Python takes many forms these days. Learning Python doesn't mean being a computer/data scientist. Software engineer is definitely the most flexible option imo.

@sonic sluice if you are undecided, make a project of your own. See if solving issues and searching for new skills is the thing you want to do. Because software is always about learning new things.

[sonic sluice]

oh i see and being a full stack developer ,what does that mean?

[gritty rivet]

Front end + back end, can build a complete website.

[sonic sluice]

Okay so in terms of the IT world if i can just label all the languages,servers etc like that
It more rather about sticking to a specific thing rather than like trying to learn everything ? I hope im understanding correctly

[sonic sluice]

Oh i see and in terms of that you would be using html5, java and c++
sorry if it seems like im asking really obvious questions I just want to understand everything

[near ocean]

you cant possibly learn everything, pick a stack and learn it before expanding to other technologies

[gritty rivet]

If your focus is on websites, Java and c++ aren't important to know. Html css JavaScript are enough to be full stack if you learn a JavaScript framework. Or Python for backend and the rest for front end

SQL also helps for backend