career-advice

[wild skiff]

Which one is more difficult , data science or AI and machine learning

[smoky quest]

AI

[tawny creek]

I learn AI

[desert prairie]

Where to look for remote job?

[smoky quest]

indeed, monster, linkedin, etc.

[tawny creek]

Yep

print("i, love python")

[sudden quartz]

Machine Learning is a tool of Data Science process. Data Science applied poorly wastes a lot of time and you need domain knowledge. On those terms, that its easier to mess up, one can say Data Science. The question itself is not very good. AI is broad and studied thoroughly in academia

So I assume you mean ML engineer/SWE job position

[tropic totem]

hello i dont knoow any python can i get some help?

[sudden quartz]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[sudden quartz]

Might want to put discussion channel above career discussion to contain the randoms that go to the first discussion channel they see

[balmy mural]

If you mean #internals-and-peps - that wouldn't be an appropriate discussion for randoms to go to first either

[summer roost]

And #python-discussion is above #career-advice

[analog hazel]

Hey, so I got a few Python books (for general intermediate - master stuff), but I'm not sure if I should read all of them, or just one. I'm just a little scared of wasting time on someone I already know but put in using other words.

I'm currently taking a Java course and now I actually been able to see how many stuff I didn't know about OOP.
I really want to master absolutely everything related to OOP and Python now, I got a really solid base of knowledge in Python basics and some intermediate stuff. I only been using a few classes, abstract classes and data classes since I started learning Python

[molten furnace]

Hey everyone!

I'm sure this is asked a lot, but I'm new so I'm hoping it wasn't asked too recently lol.

I have my first ever technical assessment as a Python developer! I've been developing with Python professionally for a year and working with Python on my own for about 3.

Does anyone have any advice or tips for brushing up for the assessment? I'm really excited and it's my dream job so I want to nail it!

I've been working through the lessons in codility because that's where the assessment is hosted

[north venture]

Hello there!
I am maybe interested in working as a Django developer next summer (so, 3 months more or less).
I wish to know if I can learn enough in a year to enter a real company and work there. Can someone tell me how much I need to know (generally speaking) and, if possible, give me some example good enough to land a job?

I would like to have some discussion regarding this since I am not really a beginner programmer, but I don't either have any experience in the industry. If you feel like you can help, @ me here or DM me - either is fine.

Thank you in advance! 🙂

[vapid jay]

hi,
I do not have a CompSci degree,
I have programmed a calculator that works okay so far, using Tkinkter as the GUI.
And I'm about to get programming a website by learning Django. I know a little HTML and CSS already.

So at least then I would have two projects I can show: calculator + website. All very basic stuff but got to start somewhere.

I'm also developing my knowledge of: OOP, Devops, Jenkins, GIT and unit testing.
Hope to have the above courses covered within the next month.
Also interested in Machine Learning and Neural Networks though it looks challenging, seems to have a lot of uses. So if I get round to it would be good to have a go at a project using TensorFlow or similar.

What else could help me get a job in software?

Other aspects of CompSci that interest me include Cyber Security but I think you need a degree to get most jobs in that. Any good courses I could do in Cyber Security?

If anyone has advice please let me know, I am also aware I do not want to be a jack of all trades and master of none.

Thanks!

[sudden quartz]

Just read one, nobody became good by just reading books. Use it to understand concepts

[smoky quest]

Pick one thing. You have mentioned at least 4-5 very distinct areas.
In terms of programmation, you will have to write projects way more complex than a calculator or website. For instance like an ecommerce website where you display products, users can pick items and quantity, have authentication, buy stuff (obviously fake), have a nice responsive frontend and have a backend with cache, database, etc.

[smoky quest]

Concretely, take a look at https://roadmap.sh/

[smoky quest]

See also that link ^

[smoky quest]

leetcode, database, architecture (ex: how would you implement a rate limiter or a clone of twitter).
There may also be some behavioral questions (communication, team work, leadership, etc.)

[vapid jay]

Yeah sure, I would obviously have to write programs way more complex, but I also have to start somewhere, which is where I'm at right now.

Ok, I might work on creating such an Ecommerce website, if it would be useful.

On the other hand, anyone have a good idea of how to get into Machine Learning/AI as a career ?

[smoky quest]

Yep, you sound like on track. I didn't mean it in a negative way. I just wanted to set the bar to meet prior to applying

[rough wigeon]

Congrats on getting started. Remember there will always be people with more experience and more skill, that's just the nature of the business. That said, you likely have enough skill to get an "entry level" coder role. It all depends on where you are and who's hiring. Yes, you will eventually code more complex systems, but anyone who tells you to learn more before applying for jobs, is being overly cautious. I've been programming since I was 9 in the late 1970s. Been a VP of IT and for the last 20 years, freelance. Ive also been a university professor and taught computer science too (fun in your 30's) Anyway, I mention all this to show you I speak from experience. One thing to remember, this industry has more than its fair share of "snobs" who think that things need to be done this way and not that. We're not neurosurgeons. People don't live or die (usually) as a result of our code, and your ability to create, clean, elegant code will always win the day. And don't worry about the CS degree ... they always say "or equivalent experience." Talk is cheap, show don't tell 😎👍

[vapid jay]

Thank you, I do appreciate it.

Yes there are certain Apprenticeships that they have (I am UK based) where they will train you up - and the skills I already have would be enough for some of those apprenticeships, so that could be one possible route in.

I can definitely say I am cautious not to spread myself too thinly by learning small parts of too many different areas.

[rough wigeon]

I was born in the UK. Moved to Canada in 1994. My home town was Bristol 🐍

[vapid jay]

Canada sounds like a good place to escape from the UK 🤣 you did well

[sudden quartz]

What else could help me get a job in software?
More projects. Understanding of Data Structures and Algorithms. To my understanding it would be easier to get a infosec job without a degree than SWE. Pick up on certifications

[sudden quartz]

a graduate degree

[stark socket]

I never succeeded with those automatic asessment tools. 😆 I think, they do not show the real level of the person

[uncut ledge]

How would a high schooler try to find an unpaid internship (assuming they know Python and SQL)

cause im having a hard time, most of them require a bachelors degree

[uncut ledge]

stats, calc, and do good at Kaggle

im learning calc in school and self studying for AP Stats, and am going to learn ML soon after I finish learning sql and flask

[sudden quartz]

connections, local, ... , startups

[wild ore]

Don't you think if startup is at an early stage, they might be even more serious about a degree since they need to work even harder to make it successful...?

[smoky quest]

I would actually stay away from startups if you are looking for internships. No one will have time to train you and you will most likely be left to your own for boring tasks. So it's more about the cheap labor and not about the mentorship.

Startups will look for especially senior people as they will need to have a lot of trust and a tiny amount of people doing a lot of different things. In addition, as the startup is expected to grow, so will the roles of the early folks

[dawn totem]

how to make a bot for discord

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel. You may have more chances in #python-discussion

[dawn totem]

sorry

[buoyant seal]

same can be said about big organizations. You could be given a small corner of the job with no responsibility, and very little faced experience.
startup can expose you to a very intensive training, if you are lucky. Because every person needs to do a lot of responsibilities, and every person lives through all life product cycle.
The only drawback here, that you could get a bit too spread out. Fulfilling different roles is awesome, but there is a limit in how much one person could do and learn within a reasonable time, and how much roles could be fulfilled within a reasonable quality by one person.

[smoky quest]

Interns aren't supposed to have any business critical role or responsibility

[buoyant seal]

only real experience and responsibilities teach you the best 😉 yes they aren't supposed to be given criticial roles. But startups often lack in those understandings. So at the cost of those startups, other people could learn.

[smoky quest]

I also don't know any honest/good startup where they actively look for interns. I have only seen or be aware of the ones where the environment is bad. So I would still not recommend it

wasting an internship on low level tasks or where you don't have any opportunity to learn can have a pretty bad impact

[buoyant seal]

I guess the chance of encountering a useful startup for you like that is really small.

[smoky quest]

tbh, from a startup point of view, I wouldn't recommend to look at interns at all anyway :p

[marsh wind]

Startups should look for those senior people for reason you mention but they often don't cause they can't afford those people

[buoyant seal]

another fair point. Lack of resources is quite heavy.

[cerulean rapids]

Guys I'm looking for an internship job in Vancouver or remote, I have been sending resumes to all these companies for quite a while and I've got no answer since, wondering if I'm not good enough, I am a junior web developer don't have any serious work background in this area but I have a very good understanding of python web framework coding, I just need the experience, that's why I want to go for an internship.

[marsh wind]

Are you finishing/studying in uni for undergrad or masters?

[uncut ledge]

So how would I find the startups? Just go indeed, or is there a site specifically for them, etc.

[cerulean rapids]

I recently moved to Canada to study data analytics in college starting this September

[uncut ledge]

I would mostly do the internship for experience, looks good on college apps, and so I can transition to better startups

[uncut ledge]

I suppose (I know SQL and Python) I could do repetitive things like cleaning data and visualizing it, that should be fine

[marsh wind]

But do you hold some degree already?
Most cases I am aware (Europe) internships are aimed at students

[smoky quest]

lol you wish.
Most likely it will be something like updating some docs, updating the website or some random shit

[uncut ledge]

cries inside

[smoky quest]

Assuming a real startup, not a unicorn with 200 people

[uncut ledge]

so where should I ultimately look? I really want experience that way I can go en to get a better internship

hopefully intern next summer, then at 11th get in the Microsoft Internship

[smoky quest]

#career-advice message had some good answers, except where I would not recommend a startup :p

[uncut ledge]

ik some front end things for high schoolers, but tbh, I don't wanna learn HTML / CSS

[cerulean rapids]

I have no degrees regarding to programming I've been self educating myself for couple of years. I just have a python certificate from Udemy

[uncut ledge]

how would I get connections?
And by local what does that mean? How would I find local companies?

[smoky quest]

connections = friends and family. So ask around

local means things like your local repair ship, or other local business in need of a tech

[marsh wind]

Then probably wait till you start college for internships. I'd ask local around tho to make sure.

[uncut ledge]

welp, that ain't happening

[uncut ledge]

so like build a website for them? Cause I don't wanna learn html / css
If I can backend would be the best, tho I suppose I shouldn't be too picky

[marsh wind]

Our non unicorn startup often takes interns as cheap labor first and then those who prove to be good are offered full-time jobs. But we usually have only master students, never saw undergrad

[uncut ledge]

me being a high schooler, and not even a senior but an incoming sophmore
although I do competitive programming, so I think I can do good in interviews
first I must get an interview though lmao

[smoky quest]

yeah, been there and done the same, except for the cheap labor. More like a testing period

[smoky quest]

the problem as a high schooler is people won't really trust you. master students are already requiring so much attention

[uncut ledge]

RIP

[smoky quest]

that's why connections make it a lot easier as favor

[marsh wind]

Well yeah it's a bit of both honestly. Some interns I saw were doing actual useful work and they are, obviously, cheap

[waxen grotto]

hello

[uncut ledge]

so how would I get connections?
all of my family / relatives work at big companies

[smoky quest]

cost isn't really an issue if you plan to hire a good one anyway

[smoky quest]

big companies do hire interns or temps. You need to ask them to check

[uncut ledge]

yeah they do
Microsoft however you need to be in 11th grade

Apple doesn't do any, and Google you need to be in 11th as well

[smoky quest]

doesn't matter. What's the worst that happens? Someone will tell you that they don't do it. So ask anyway

[uncut ledge]

ill try but my father said that him being in microsoft actually decreases the chances of me getting the internship
they wanna hire diversity / people who aren't asian, as well as kids whose parents aren't coders

[smoky quest]

There are ways to work policies and asking around. But yeah, I understand it can be a pain. Hence why people do it because of their connection and not some random person

[uncut ledge]

got it, thanks!

[smoky quest]

sometimes they may make an exception because you are his son

[buoyant seal]

our non unicorn startup hired basically... everyone. Because startup owner is a non technical person, and trusted to the senior he hired. And this senior was just hiring everyone, undergraduates or any basically person with good Charisma. Actually the charisma was the main criteria for hiring, that's how senior was hired too I think. Even 1 years students were hired. Well, thankfully we were able to stop going into this direction, before we exhausted our funding.

[uncut ledge]

wait and also one last question
how viable is it for me to do an internship with a professor?

[smoky quest]

works better if your father is vp though :p

[smoky quest]

my HS professors weren't doing any research or anything beyond going to HS. So not sure what you expect

[buoyant seal]

The responsibilities were not boring though. Create backend /frontend / desktop applications.

[uncut ledge]

lmaooo I wish

[smoky quest]

but you can also ask them if they know about any internship

[uncut ledge]

No I mean college professors at local universities

[smoky quest]

how the fuck did that company survived

[marsh wind]

True, it's mostly a very long trial period. But sometimes interns don't want to stay after or you don't want hire them

[smoky quest]

they don't know you so they may not care. But again you have nothing to loose by asking

[sudden quartz]

this

but if you want an internship in HS without connections, yes, look to startups

[smoky quest]

yeah and that's a bet. But we are talking about a few months of partial salary and you most likely interview the interns before accepting them. So I haven't seen this as an issue

[uncut ledge]

ik ik, but I don't know where to find them

[sudden quartz]

you dont

[smoky quest]

google your local universities and they will list the departments and professors

[sudden quartz]

internships in HS are rare as it is

[buoyant seal]

Senior was also fucking up greatly. Working with projects from another job in his working time. Forcing devs to work in their working time for his work unrelated projects. And just playing computer games.
When I grew confident enough in my skills and stopped being afraid fired, I just asked the salary increase, got denied, notified the owner about everything that happening (I was going to leave the company anyway)
So we were able to sort it out.

[smoky quest]

lmao. Yeah, sometimes the silicon valley series from HBO is way too close to real life

[buoyant seal]

Basically all it required, just one person to be honest about it 😉

[sudden quartz]

that is the best, but youre in HS right? just contact your university now instead of doing this stuff

[uncut ledge]

but it is UW 😦

[sudden quartz]

what is UW?

[uncut ledge]

basically very hard to get in, let alone intern under a professor

[sudden quartz]

[uncut ledge]

only 1 person ik got in, and that was cause professor was a relative

[sudden quartz]

and youre looking for a HS internship

[marsh wind]

Oh for sure. Not saying it's an issue, it's not a lottery level bet, if interview goes bad, you don't take intern :) based on what I see, and how people in our or other places get first jobs, internship for masters or apprenticeships are one of best ways to secure the opportunity - it's really a win - win

[uncut ledge]

lmao it is top 5 in USA

[sudden quartz]

then thats not your university?

[uncut ledge]

huh, it is near where I live? what do you mean then? go for state university? that is more viable actually

[sudden quartz]

choose your university now, contact the people. if youre confident going to get into UW anyway you shouldnt have to get a HS internship. The kids that do have connections, period.

[uncut ledge]

wait
"our non unicorn startup"

"our"
is ur startup hiring?

[uncut ledge]

im not sure which college im going to get into though, but maybe Purdue, however that is on the other side of US

[sudden quartz]

At the end of the day just work on your own projects, youre doing a ton thats not really adding together well.

[marsh wind]

They always are but you are not in Paris are you. Also by our, I don't mean mine but one I work for, just to clarify

[uncut ledge]

I think I could convince my parents to relocate across the world for an internship to boost my ECs

[buoyant seal]

radical solution

[sudden quartz]

as I said, youre doing too much

[uncut ledge]

okie, ill try to focus on hackathons then I suppose

[buoyant seal]

I mean

startups are everywhere should be the same. So no point to chase them at the end of the world, when there are a lot of them in your local area
only going for a highly prestige company would be worthy to relocate
or well, if your country sucks, then it would be worthy to relocate as well, but usually people don't have money at the start in this case

[sudden quartz]

ultimately, you will not get any high quality internship in Highschool. Focus on your skills.

[smoky quest]

yep totally agree

[smoky quest]

out of curiosity, how is the equity situation for employees?
I remember a few years ago being surprised by french startups not giving out equity

[honest pivot]

Sounds like a horror story, how did you sort it out?

[ornate magnet]

Hi guys If anyone's preparing for coding interview. This is a great resource to test your preparation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09556H1Z1 I have published it. I myself am a software engineer, and have given many tech interviews, so have a good knowledge of what type of algorithms are asked in it! Please check it out

[buoyant seal]

as I said
in 6 months time after my start in this company I learned enough to be confident in finding another job. Plus I just overgrew my current salary.

I came to startup owner, and asked for salary increase, when I was denied I told the owner about my wish to leave in a month time. At the same time owner passionately spoke about his project, he wished to invest further even if the current team would totally fail, he would hire a new team and offered me position to continue in this case anyway.

I decided to be clean and told about the senior. The proofs were plenty a whole messenger of history. I was guilty a bit too, but you know.. I had nothing to lose already, since I was leaving the company,
Plus I worked the most out of all and startup owner saw it, so he trusted my reviews. I just evaluated everyone's performance. When I was doubtful about made reviews, or I thought that I would not have enough weight, I hired 2 additional code reviewrs from outside.
So... all fuck ups became in a clear water.

I prepared backups of everything to take over all things. Not a lot of actually needed, since I managed most of infrastructure anyway.
And then happened day X, when everyone got fired except 2-3 workers.

[honest pivot]

So based on your info, they fired everyone who was dragging the company down. And you decided to stay after all? Or are you still leaving?

[buoyant seal]

yes, basically on my info everything happened.
I decided to stay, I got salary increased.

with firing all the people, a lot of funding got released.

I am not thinking to leave at the moment. I wish to come through all product life cycle

quite good experience. But I would wish to leave in 12 or 18 months? I don't think that it would be beneficial for me to stay too long in one company

[buoyant seal]

the failures made by senior were sometimes just ridiculous.
he hired 2 people, with skill level of a first year university students to make web browser engine.
when I looked at their C++ code, even if I did not touch C++ for like... 5 years I think, I was able to code review within one day and find
a) web browser engines are made at the moment with ridiculous amount of developers, they don't have possibly chance to finish in a promised one year time.
b) they made such a slow and poor job... 3 months they did things, which one beginning junior could do in one week. Those students were not just slow, they were also breaking any common sense it is there. They made their own algorithms for encryption of everything! Would you like unsafe implementation of security made by 1 year students?

How the hell he did not see that in 3 months time that they did nothing? How he did not realize that their task is just impossible to make?

This senior 11 years worked in one banking company, famous in our country. That makes me afraid to even getting into this company, or well working too long in one company.

I think it all happened because he stagnated. he stopped coding, he stopped learning. I am afraid to become ever like that. I wish to be always learning like there is no tomorrow, within reasonable limits in order to keep healthy mind though.

[vapid jay]

Hello, Can anyone here teach me python live for free?

[mystic matrix]

Guys anyone here worked on TCL / php related stuff

I have a job opportunity and wanted to ask if i invest my time in this will it be useful for future?

[honest pivot]

That's amazing. In the startup I work for, we have a couple people who are bad at coding, but not that dramatically bad. They are smart people with PhDs, just no background in computer science. I've been trying to figure out what to do about it myself.

[smoky quest]

that's pretty old school at this time. These were a lot more popular ~20-12years ago

[mystic matrix]

my seniors who were asked if interested refused then i got the opportunity , they all want python related stuff , i was working on python,flask ,mongoDB for 1st 6-7 months now they are asking if i wanna do it

[smoky quest]

nowadays, it's more python/java/c#/nodejs for backend and react/vue on the frontend

[mystic matrix]

yeah so should i pass on it or not? because its onsite opportunity meaning ill be working with the client idk if its a big deal

[smoky quest]

It's up to you. It depends on what you want to get out of it. If you want any experience or specific experience related to that job then sure. If you hope to use that because these languages will be popular, then not so much

[mystic matrix]

I want experience 1st cuz i just started in Feb my 1st job

but people are saying if you switch your technology its bad for your future etc

[smoky quest]

if you have X years of experience in php/tcl, then future jobs will try to push you in that area

It doesn't mean you will forcibly get stuck into that, but that won't be the same as if you had some more relevant in more sexy frameworks.

That said, it's more about the skills themselves (backend vs frontend) than the language at the end of the day

[mystic matrix]

this job will be for 1 year around meaning i can switch after 1 year but on the other hand its a live project with the client , the guy im replacing is saying it will be good for me and he has been working for 8 years

[smoky quest]

don't expect me to make a decision for you. You know more the situation than anyone

[strong veldt]

man whats ur thought on freelanceing

[mystic matrix]

its still confusing because everyone is running for python and idk alot about the industry

[rotund crest]

Personally I think if you are early career, it can be difficult to be too picky for any experience unless you know you have more work available. To further echo what recursive_error said, I am finding it extremely difficult to go into an area that isn't very close to my primary field of expertise. The interview rate I get for my main area is 50-60% and outside of it is closer to 3%.

[smoky quest]

make lists of pros/cons and continue asking around. If you have specific questions, I am sure folks here are also more than happy to help.
But no one can give you a clear answer or make a decision to you.

[honest pivot]

Is there any value to building up a GitHub portfolio of stuff similar to the field you'd like to change to? Or does nobody look at that?

[mystic matrix]

R&D companies ask for it

[smoky quest]

In my experience, people don't look at at a whole github account or repository. However making your points visibles on your resumes with specific links has a better hit rate ratio

So I guess my point is that having a portfolio is great, but you also need to make sure to communicate the right way about it

[honest pivot]

Yeah, communication is very important and most people are bad at it

[smoky quest]

For instance, I may receive 15 resumes in a single day. I am not gonna check out every single github account. But I may do so for candidates further down the funnel

[mystic matrix]

thanks ill think on it more

[smoky quest]

And if you leave me to my own device, I may find some shit you dont want me to see or the fact you forgot to add some tests, comments, license or whatever. But if instead you lead me to specific skills or things you want to demonstrate, there are less chances of me getting lost and taking the wrong information

[smoky quest]

what's the alternative also? What if you don't take it, then what?

[honest pivot]

Yeah, I would think just a link to my GitHub account would be dumb, it should be pointing out a specific repo which is narrow in scope and targeted at what should be interesting.

[mystic matrix]

Then ill continue to work on python project and increase my python exp

onsite will get me more salary , direct interaction with client, and opportunity to work on a live agile project

so there are benefits to it but then ill have to learn an old language and commit 1 year to it

hopefully if its not a hectic job ill make some python projects side by side and keep my skill upto date

[vapid jay]

I lived outside of the United States and I wanna work at Google US. Is it possible to apply for a job with no money in my bank account.

[honest pivot]

It should never cost money to apply for a job, and I don't see why they would look at your bank account.

[mystic matrix]

It depends on multiple factors

if you are from middlle east or non western country it will be less likely or if you are not exceptional(neither am i)

Reason being they need to give proof to government that they cant find anyone in their country to do that job and you are really good and will be an irreplacable asset

also there are so many formalities , company will have to give a security to govmnt and the process is tedious so they avoid hiring from outside

Best bet is to apply for a college study there and you will get a work visa for 2 years(for germany) idk about usa it must be atleast 1 year so the company will not discriminate and will hire you immediately.

[honest pivot]

Ah, I should add, that your bank account may be quite important in the process of applying for a visa, if you do somehow get hired.

[marsh wind]

Stem PhDs can learn very quickly and efficiently

[honest pivot]

They need to be motivated, and they need to have the time available. Both tricky at the moment.

[rugged bobcat]

Hey I have a question to ask, if someone has a associates degree in computer science or cybersecurity are there jobs that can take these types of people or not that many?

[marsh wind]

So given a bit of time, code review and some guidance they would make great software engineers /ML, DS

[marsh wind]

What's up with motivation tho? Thet came to work there so they should be motivated to learn?

[vapid jay]

how about a hotel or rent?

[honest pivot]

I hear you, we are trying to implement better code review, but that also takes a lot of people's time.

As for motivation, what I mean is they need to be motivated specifically to code better. As in, they need to understand what about their code is bad, and why it is bad, and what they should be doing differently, and where they should be learning on their own.

At the moment they are too fixated on quick results; i.e., they got the code to do the thing, yay! They are not thinking as much about making sure it's maintainable and efficient. They are slowly learning, but they still commit lots of iffy code, and nobody really has the authority to put their foot down about it.

[rugged bobcat]

Can someone help me with my question

[marsh wind]

that does sound like implementing code review,giving some better practices guidelines +instilling culture of writing tests for example can fix it over time (afaik when when you properly cover code with test you get more maintainable code). I see where you getting at though, communication is very important when it comes to authority, as there are some PhDs who used to working almost solo so it can be more difficult

[rugged bobcat]

Can anyone help me with my previous question

[marsh wind]

well, you know your company and people better than I do, so probably you have idea on how to proceed, it just will take time. All I want to convey is, don't give up on PhDs early on, we come from a bit different culutres so approach usually should be different but in the end of the day you will likely end up with great engineers

[honest pivot]

Fortunately we have a very good unit testing culture, it's mainly that things end up with wonky structure.

Our team is small and flat, so nobody is actually in charge. It's hard to do truly effective code review when it can only have the force of a suggestion. I have more software background than the others, but that's it.

People are decent about communication at least. It's more that they're just inexperienced about putting together code in a methodical way.

[rugged bobcat]

Why are people ignoring me is there anyone here that is willing to help me

[marsh wind]

there is an ongoing conversatation, jhave some patience please 🙂

[honest pivot]

And yeah, I'm a STEM PhD myself, I just also have a background in software. My main struggle with this problem is trying to figure out how to organise a learning process for people. Right now we're pretty swamped with things to do.

[marsh wind]

yeah same (being STEM PhD I mean). well for once I think many PhDs I know are willing to learn on their own and ready to commit to it. So in case if they are getting lost you can even dump bunch of references or some initial points and they can proceed with rest 🙂 but if both you and them are swamped even that can be a hurdle

[marsh wind]

is it for US?

[rugged bobcat]

Yeah

I tried searching up job titles but I am struggling to find any job applications that says they will take anyone that has a associates degree in computer science or cybersecurity

Could it be I am not looking hard enough or are these bad degrees to get?

[honest pivot]

Yeah, I've linked people to some blogs on design patterns, and I'm trying to promote a culture of improvement. I have one other guy with software experience backing me up. It is working, just slowly.

Since we're under pressure to get things done, I sometimes end up rewriting someone else's code myself, rather than convince them to do it (and I'm sure it would take them multiple iterations if I did).

I probably need to find more resources to have people read.

[marsh wind]

first of all, I would not look for these kind of details y will take anyone that has a associates degree in computer science or cybersecurity job listing is always a wishlist, if you can prove you are good they will not care that much.
second, I am not in US and I don't think we have here assisoacte types of degree so I cannot really dive that more into that. I do know people here often reccomend going to community college and getting associate degree if you can't afford full BSc/student loan so it must be worth something. I kno @shadow moss often advocates for it, perhaps he can elaborate more.

[honest pivot]

The community college recommendation is more about doing the first 2 years at a cheaper place, before transferring to a 4-year university to finish a bachelor's degree.

[rugged bobcat]

I don't think the classes transfer over

Like after associates degree that is it

Is it even worth getting these degrees if I have a hard time finding job applications saying they will take associates degrees

[honest pivot]

Everything I read about the job market makes it sound very rough, especially for entry level jobs.

[subtle flint]

guys

how do i encrypt py

[marsh wind]

#❓｜how-to-get-help @subtle flint check that. We are in careers channel, not help

[subtle flint]

sorry mb

[marsh wind]

well it is kinda. took me about 10 months of unemployment after academia to land where I am now

well given that, it was not that I spent all time of these 10 months on job searxh and etc etc, some weeks, months I took more of a rest and relax...

but if were to think about how much time I spend actively applying, interviewing, learning etc, It would probably be around 5-6 months

[honest pivot]

I came from a postdoc that was set to end Sept 2020. I started massively applying in Feb 2020. Was fun to job search in the middle of the covid crisis. Yay!

[marsh wind]

I got phd Dec 2018, ended postdoc May 2019 and got job offer March 2020 (literally, I had lasty inteview + offer 4 days before we went on country wide lockdown)

oh you started to apply quite before end of postdoc. I did have couple interviews while still in lab but quickly realized that I have to big of a gaps to hope land something realistic

[honest pivot]

I need a work visa to stay in Europe, so it was important to have something lined up before the postdoc ended.

[marsh wind]

what country is that, if you don't mind?

Here (France) I can extend visa for 2 years unemployement if you I worked for 2+ years before (PhD counts)

[honest pivot]

During my postdoc I was on a "scientific visa", which is not a proper work visa. It cannot be extended to cover unemployed periods, and also the time spent living in the country does not count toward permanent residence.

[grizzled tundra]

Hi guys I needed your advice on something

Its my last day at my current organization and I have two offers in hand. Very similar.

The different is that company A is a product based company which provides a stocks trading platform. The company's tech team is 50 people.

Company B, on the other hand, is a service-based company with a strength of 500 - 1000 people.

I have three years of experience. Which one should I choose?

[grand glacier]

guys, is there anyone here who has made a career transition into tech from a non-engineering background?

I am an Indian currently in a law school and will be graduating as a lawyer in two years. I cant drop out of law school now since I will be worse off economically. I will have a guaranteed corp law firm job but I don't see myself working as a lawyer. I am almost done with cs50 course from edX and will start building projects. But I needed some guidance.

[rose lily]

Hi. Just wanted to ask you guys a quick question. So I'm in a difficult financial situation and learning a bit about python (been doing so as part of my hobby) - I'm quite comfortable with the language and "get it" easily, realistically speaking how long time should I count on before I can make money with what I know with python and what should I focus on in order to "make a quick buck"? Please help, wouldn't ask if I wasn't in a shitty situation.

I live in Europe, 33 years old and have no work experience within tech

[sacred glacier]

You will need to spend a lot of your time learning yourself. Be prepared to have not much of a life- especially if you are working in a law firm in the meantime.
What you are after is definitely possible, though- and will have happened a lot.

I didn't start as a lawyer, but I taught myself programming with basically no guidance.
My best advice is just to start doing projects, and learning as you go. Start simple, like making a calculator or something. Then do more advanced programs, maybe learn a GUI framework, etc.

Also, don't expect to be able to start your first serious project until you are done with 1-2 years of learning.

[sacred glacier]

If you are only wanting to program for money- do web development. A lot of the time you don't even need to code. Python can be used, but you can also use javascript which is very similar.
There will be plenty of people who will want websites developed for them, and most of the time you only need to know the real basics.
The main trouble is the competition. There are so many firms and freelancers nowdays that develop websites. You will need to know where to look for clients, and you'll need to know how to look like a trustworthy developer so people sign you up. (I cannot give you advice on this sorry.)
Good luck!

[grand glacier]

Hey, exactly the response I was looking for.

[marsh wind]

it looks like you are in good situation to make the transiction less bumpy - you'll have a job in law guaranteed as I understood, so you can porbably prepare and plan some learning cirriculum for you. you have 2 more years of school which is already quite a lot of time to cover basics and so some projects. and depending on where you will be in 2 years you can work at that law firm a bit or transition immediately.

[plucky cypress]

Question for anyone who graduated with a degree - what kinda detail did your courses cover in regards to Python? I'm about to graduate in a year and creating UIs, using Git, using APIs was never covered in the course and I have barely any experience at all with it. Is this something that most courses cover and I'm now majorly lacking in?

[swift veldt]

I am going through a MSc in AI after working in finance for four years. It's feasible 👍

As it was said. It takes a lot of self learning and side projects (which was how I got into my program).

if you can make the jump from non-tech to tech without having to go back to school, it is all the better. Law school is great because it is a secondary knowledge that will become relevant in any tech position you will have if you are in the right industry.

[shadow moss]

Associate Degree class will absolutely transfer on most US states. If you are interested in higher education but can’t afford, call your local community college and talk to them to see how your state works. Even if job wants Bachelors, associates is better then HS degree.

[gray anvil]

none, self learned everything, but college really teaches you self learning. especially a good program

[grand glacier]

Hey thank you for replying. How did you go about deciding what sort of projects to do? Did you have any internship?

[swift veldt]

I mostly worked from my own standpoint. I knew stuff about finance, therefore I set to learn the basics from datasets and other knowledge I already had. For instance, doing some basic statistics with stock and option prices (I had do learn how to ping an API, or scrape web data), or modeling some stock indexes.

I had no prior internship in tech and my coding knowledge was limited to VBA before I start.

[gray anvil]

yes, econs - > teacher -> devops for a bank

similar story for me, I knew datasets and basic data vis, starting doing a lot of geocoding for a data science project, picked up a lot of Web scraping and network interaction know how, now work as a networking team lead

the key thing is you need to want to learn what makes a tech professional a professional, that goes beyond basic ability to write code, teach yourself software engineering principles, data structures for code optimization, etc

I have a new hire with a Cs degree who may have learnt all that but can't seem to join the dots and use any of these concepts properly in his day to day, so internalising it is what really matters, and only you can teach yourself that

[rose lily]

Hi, thanks for reply. I'm not coding only for money 🙂 This is my passion and I find myself always reading about computers most of the time. The main thing was more like how to get up to speed to get income because I am in a situation where I

[vapid jay]

I've heard Kaggle is a good resource, ty

Sorry, I'm UK Based. I presume by 'calc' you mean calculus. I have studied calculus up to A Level (age 18) which I did great at, but not beyond that age.
AP Stats appears to be a University course in Stats in the U.S...

Anyone else have ideas about how to get into Machine Learning in the UK?

[honest pivot]

Employers do care about Kaggle results, if you've won any contests. I think it takes a lot of practice and understanding of data science to actually win. So, learn as much as you can, and put it into practice. Kaggle is actually a great platform for learning. You can do past challenges and compare yourself in the ranking.

I don't know exactly what kind of degree programs there are in the UK, is Machine Learning specifically offered? Then do that. If not, then do computer science, but also make sure you get a good foundation in mathematics, especially probability and statistics.

And if you're super interested in doing research on the topic, think about a masters/PhD.

[rose lily]

have started studying and need to support myself financially so that I can follow this passion of mine. You're saying web development, what else could I pursue? And when you mean web development, do you mean like backend programming

[grand glacier]

Wow, thanks for the reply!

[late sage]

What languages can I learn or in which area I should focus if I don't like creating visuals and just working in logic?

[marsh wind]

backend, most used are probably Java, C# and nodeJS for that. Python can be fine too. You can also look into C/C++, Rust if you need some low level fast things

[late sage]

What can I build with those languages? I would like to learn to make stuff and not just learn and never use those languages

[near ocean]

You can build whatever you want, all of the above are general purpose languages

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

It looks like you tried to attach a Python file - please use a code-pasting service such as https://paste.pythondiscord.com

[gritty rivet]

Here's the curriculum for a bootcamp I'm currently studying in, might give you some ideas... I have a friend who is a data engineer and he said this pretty closely matches the skillset / tools he uses https://www.nucamp.co/bootcamp-overview/back-end-sql-devops-python

[slim raven]

I see ‘AWS’ on a lot of job posting’s requirements

Can someone explain to me in simple words what that is?

Also ‘DevOps’. It’s confusing, I have a degree in comp sci but I’ve never heard of these two words at any point in my study

But they are on most of the job postings I saw

[honest pivot]

AWS is Amazon's cloud platform. DevOps is supporting the backend code, like managing how it's deployed on a cloud server, etc.

[late sage]

What is Flask used for? I know that is like a web server? But why would you host a web server instead of the webpage's files?

I'm not really into how webpages and all that stuff works

[near ocean]

Thats a question for #web-development really, flask is a small framework that lets you build webapps really quickly and without much attached

[covert vector]

hello i want to do a career in programming but i also want to incorporate physics (particularly astrophysics) into the the programming. which career should i choose

[late sage]

Yeah but isn't it the same if a server just returns the html file instead?

[wild ore]

But what about the brand name that comes associated with it...? Even if one doesnt do that much work, maybe there is some other source of learning which one might not show...Instead, one would show the internship and explain the learned concept from somewhere else maybe after internship or learned before...

[smoky quest]

No. No one cares and it doesn't mean anything.
What other source of learning can there be? This is just vanity

You don't get infused with knowledge or experience because of the name of your employer. There is no shortcut and no magic.
Knowledge and experience come from hard work and doing stuff.
You may want to go to a reputable place because the odds of doing something interesting is higher. But you aren't better because you went there. So even if you come from a reputable place, the only thing that matters is what you did there.

Note: I am skipping the part about political games and connections

[honest pivot]

For that you should go into physics. Astro and cosmology research uses lots of programming.

[covert vector]

ok ill try going into physics

[quaint vessel]

Hello 👋 umm… I’m looking for answers about school learning or self learning with my own computer set up [which would be better?]. I don’t mind self learning but I need practice problems or projects to work with to remember the material. I would love to get my certifications or my foot in a job that I can work on my coding. Please I beg for some advice and possibly people to get to know one another and see what you do and how you went about it.

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by school learning?

also to do what kind of job?

[slim raven]

Hmm… but even if you learned literally nothing from an internship, having a work experience that you can put on your resume will boost the chance of getting interviews by a lot.

[slim raven]

It’s not like people read resumes carefully or if they have any way to know if you really worked hard and learned from your past working experience

They’ll have to figure that out in an interview, and they’ll need to give you an interview to begin with. At that point you’re already benefiting from the intern experience, by getting an interview that others (without any similar experience) failed to get

[quaint vessel]

@smoky quest going to take college classes to get a certain degree

[vapid jay]

I need quick advice. I’m developing an application for shoe botting. I started doing this for a person; but not as regualar freelancing but he wanted ‘us’ to own the company. I’m litteraly doing all the work: coding, promoting, graphics design, website coding etc. Whereas he’s just doing a bit of promoting and came up with the idea

The thing that i’m struggling against is the share each of us gets. He told me that i’d get thirty five percent but I absolutely dont agree with that as im doing almost all the work. What should I do?

[near ocean]

Dont do the project if you dont agree, also shoe botting sounds like its definitely against some ToS out there

[vapid jay]

The process of entering “raffles” for rare shoes. These rare shoes sell for more money than the retail price and therefore its sought acter

[near ocean]

Or, you know, negotiate for your share

[vapid jay]

Thats what we’re struggling with. He doesnt agree with me, and I dont agree with him

[honest pivot]

What is currently on paper about this deal?

[vapid jay]

Nothing yet, he wants me to have a 35% share and vice-versa

I kind of agree with dropping it, but not because theres no market for as the average shoebot sells for $300. But because I dont want the stuggle of working with him.

I’ll just continue on this myself.

And why couldn’t I just hire two of my friends who would manage this with pleasure, and are highly trustworthy paying them both less than 10% of my earnings

Career

[smoky quest]

If you are unable to convey in a clear manner what you did in your internship, you have bigger problems and increasing your chances of rejection. People who bullshit are also pretty easy to spot.
It's also very easy to see if you worked hard or learned anything at a given position by asking about it 🙂

[smoky quest]

CS degree is the best and easiest route if you can.
You can try the self learning route, but that's like doing life in extreme hardcore mode. Furthermore it's not like you would be doing 3-5 years of self learning before applying, so your education level wouldn't compare

[honest pivot]

I interviewed a guy who rated himself 4/5 stars in Python on his resume. He was...not.

[sage pumice]

how do you even rate yourself like that

[idle jetty]

lmaoo

[sacred glacier]

Hi Scottah-
That’s great to hear you are passionate about coding. 🙂 Passion and enjoyment will put you very far ahead in this field. As for the money aspect- probably the fastest way to actually make money is still going to be freelancing with web dev. You will need to learn JavaScript and HTML, but learn python fully first- JS is very similar to python, if you understand python fully you could learn JS in a day.

If you aren’t as keen on web dev, and would rather like to work for someone else, I guess just do projects and build up a portfolio. Learn C at some point also- after fully understanding C and python you will be able to transition to any language you want. Don’t expect this to be a fast process- it could easily take over 2 years until you are ready to work on industrial level software. Also, contributing to open source software is also a thing many employers are looking for.

[idle jetty]

hey who here is really good at coding ant teaching i

[smoky quest]

you have all the power and they have nothing. You have the code, product and basically everything. You don't need him at all tbh

[vapid jay]

yeah thats what ive been trying to tell him.

but he keeps repeating his “35%” story

[smoky quest]

If he is already annoying now, that will only get worse once you sign anything with him, even if you negotiate

[vapid jay]

Yeah I’m going to continue on my own. Told him to try and find someone else or pay a software dev 500eu per month.

[sacred glacier]

Have you signed anything legally gxsz? That is the most important thing and I am surprised no one has asked you

[idle jetty]

hey wassup i seen the message above i want to learn python but dont know where to start and i am a little hard to teach

like i dont usually understand shit fast

[sacred glacier]

Just do projects- start off with a beginners tutorial 🙂
My first project was making a ball move around on screen with arcade

[idle jetty]

not slow but hard to teach

[vapid jay]

no

he just dm’d me and said “hey can you create a sneaker bot”. And I got to work

[sacred glacier]

Yeah, just take it for yourself then

So idk how the IP laws work where you live, but I think it would be impossible for him to claim your IP, mainly because the idea for a sneaker bot is not new

[vapid jay]

Yeah I told that to him

He just wont bother and find a new person

[sacred glacier]

Lol, just block him

[vapid jay]

im not like that, told him five grand and ill make the bot but he doesnt have that

we’re ending with a cliffhanger

[sage pumice]

"Thx for ruining my dream"

[vapid jay]

The name for the bot that I got up with was Instant, and he wanted to name it Linus Bot.

I’ve genually never heard such a terrible name in my life.

[smoky quest]

It looks like they aren't that mature.
I would suggest for you to be as gracious and professional as you can and avoiding snarky replies (ex: I am always happy with myself)

But be firm on the fact you are on your way out and breaking your relationship with them

[vapid jay]

I’ve been doing that all conversation long and I always do that. I sent twenty messages saying that I’m not doing it before this

So I just got done with him

[worthy basin]

hy guys

[vapid jay]

"I am always happy with myself" Massive W if true

I'd block people if they lose use to you in pursuing something you want. People who just wanna take and don't give you something aren't worth the time. Even if you feel like sticking it to them they just aren't worth it. Focus on yourself and the things you want.

He's obviously resentful and is trying to manipulate you. You have no objective reason to care what he wants.

[vapid jay]

I have found self-improvements to be pretty foundational and something I have sort of had a sense of. So its a major interest. Though I have a general question to you what does self-improvement consist of?

Also, you having to rewrite code is kind of concerning. Real motivation is something already so hard to attain. Its not as simple as reading a resource like you may think. How much of an active role do you take and how much do you get credited for? Are you adequately at a position which fully emphasizes your importance? 🤔

Also, if you have to rewrite a lot of stuff. Isn't it worth cutting off some baggage and keeping the good people around? How much are those people really contributing? You shouldn't and can't instill excellence in people who aren't striving for it. (You can still affirm good qualities by emphasizing them in some productive purpose that people may seek out.) That's something self-motivated.

Though idk how much real control you have. You mentioned working for a startup. 🤔 But if thats the case is it your responsibility to even take this on yourself?

[safe mantle]

Hi guys

I want to got some work in coding... I've a degree in physics and I've coding for 5 years in several languages for personal, familiar and scholar projects but nothing professional (paid) projects
¿Any suggestions for changing career paths? 🤔

[buoyant seal]

physics could be useful in some game dev

[safe mantle]

Interesting I haven't think about... At the moment I'm working as Financial Data Analyst looking the gap to became Data Scientist.. How can I go through game dev? 🤔

[gray anvil]

sounds like the battle I'm fighting. hang in there mate. I rewrote about half of the 400 or so python logic files my team has over the last few months plus a bunch of design docs and templates

but now I'm in charge so I get to force everyone to use em muhaha

I especially feel you about giving up and just rewriting other people's fresh commits because you know it takes you like 30 minutes max but it would take them the better part of a day

[gray anvil]

this a thousand times this. I'm buying everyone on my team a copy of fluent python for Christmas

I'm so done with having to argue with people that their deadline isn't an excuse for sloppy code

and then that if they just put in the effort to learn proper techniques I wouldn't have to nag about it

@honest pivot if its any consolation to you, doing the exact thing you described got me noticed and promoted so keep fighting the good fight

[covert mauve]

Hello, I started in the world of data science, any recommendations?

[midnight bloom]

Will i get (any) job with python as my base lang ?.........

[smoky quest]

based on what should we make that determination? What's the actual question?
Is it about if there are any job using python? If so, then google has a pretty good answer about that
If it is about you specifically, then it depends on your education, skill levels, location, the type of job you are looking for

[midnight bloom]

location india

gooogle? oh my freaking god yes ok lemme get on some books, websites and see if i can improve myself

[smoky quest]

if you can't google such evident and simple question and have to resort to sarcasm, then I doubt you would be able to find a job

There is a joke about the fact most of the work of a developer is about googling errors and looking for answers on stackoverflow

[dry sapphire]

yes

[dreamy shale]

Should i buy a laptop with 11300h core i5 and intel iris xe i will use it for 4 to 5 years but will not play games only productivity and programing task please help?

[vapid jay]

… what?

thats the biggest lie ive ever heard

creating a simple sneakerbot =/= getting work in artificial intelligence

[buoyant seal]

I think scalping bot suits them better

[vapid jay]

the processor is decent. if you get the option for 16 gigs of ram then you're gucci

haha yeah

[dreamy shale]

@vapid jay yes i do get

l@vapid jay will it be great after 4 5 years im a undergrad

I am only fearing bcoz of 4 cores

[vapid jay]

to be fair, you wont need those 4 cores if you're not gaming or doing heavy stuff

[buoyant seal]

another way to get worker for free. blinding him with greed. in the promise of greater future
somehow I prefer getting payment now, than in a never-future.

[vapid jay]

4 is more than sufficient for your productivity needs

[dreamy shale]

@vapid jay Okay for programming?

[vapid jay]

are you running simulations, or any cpu heavy stuff?

[dreamy shale]

@vapid jay thanks sir

@vapid jay i dont know i will join University and have a specialization in cybersecurity too

[vapid jay]

as far as my knowledge goes, you should be fine as long as you have fast storage and decent ram. Your processor is fine but i would recommend 6 cores cos of virtual machines. 4 should be fine but 6 is always a better option

[dreamy shale]

@vapid jay okay then i will consider a gaming laptop with 4600h

[vapid jay]

see the problem with gaming laptops is that they heat up super quickly and have pretty bad battery lives compared to your daily productivity laptops. No graphics card = better battery life and better thermals. Since you're not gaming anyway, it would not be the best move to get it

[buoyant seal]

and I have a problem with any laptop, that they don't have two slots for external normal sized screens

[dreamy shale]

@vapid jay yeah thats why im considering the before said machine

[vapid jay]

can you link me the laptop in DM's?

[dreamy shale]

Yess

[smoky quest]

tbh, my laptop is less of a work everywhere type and more like a mobile desktop I can use in different locations with wifi and power plug.
And yes, I did require a gaming GPU for science and deep learning 😉

[vapid jay]

thats fair but i don't really think that you need a whole desktop like laptop with a whole gpu if you're doing basic stuff and dont need to much processing power. He did mention that he was an undergrad, i am assuming that he requires a work everywhere type of laptop with decent specs

[smoky quest]

yeah, for a student, you may care about:

• 16Gb of ram for the different environments or VMs you may want to play with

• 2CPU for experimenting with concurrency, threads, etc. More CPU if you want VMs

• Some decent disk space
• You don't really need a GPU for learning about data science / ML. You won't process millions of images

If you have to do low level stuff, you could complement it with a rpi

But 4years is a pretty long time horizon for a laptop...

[vapid jay]

yeah thats what i was worried about

[vapid jay]

pretty much. a good battery life and light weight is always a good bonus for a student

[smoky quest]

In which case, buying a cheap laptop now enables you to get another cheap one in 2-3 years

[smoky quest]

true. portability can be useful

[vapid jay]

fair point. as long as the laptop in this context is not too expensive and has all of the above specs? pretty safe purchase

[smoky quest]

by then it will also have much better specs

[vapid jay]

but i do get your point. thankfully, cheap laptops are not too bad nowadays. you get a decent intel cpu and if you're lucky, even a ryzen one

[smoky quest]

500$ laptops are pretty good

[clear barn]

hey

[vapid jay]

the only issue is the ridiculous prices that are there right now..

[clear barn]

https://tenor.com/view/hey-tom-hanks-forrest-gump-gif-5114770

[buoyant seal]

most of the price from videocard

I was able to buy quite cheap PC, which has only integrated videocard
plus buying without windows decreased price by more than 100$ in addition

[smoky quest]

a lots of students could do most of their work on a rpi anyway

[vapid jay]

the chip shortage affects all aspects no? if you go buy a new one right now, the cpu you would get for x, you will get for x + $50-60 from what i've seen. The cpu prices are pretty damn bad as well

[vapid jay]

but would you recommend a uni student to have a single rpi as their primary pc?

[smoky quest]

There are two facets to this question:

• Do students require more computing power than what a rpi would provide? The answer is no
• Would it be a realistic solution today? Probably not

[vapid jay]

1. Prolly yes? The 8gig version is pretty decent but doesnt it struggle with multitasking? last i heard, the rpi was pretty bad for running multiple tabs and lets say something like vscode at the same time
   2)Yeahhh prolly not

[smoky quest]

I have an older model I use for some computing stuff and haven't had any issue. But I don't use vscode either

[vapid jay]

its an arm processor as well...not the best for all this stuff

[smoky quest]

It's not the price of the best stuff. But you can still run a full desktop, some light 3d, videos and multi-tasking

Which can also be interesting in terms of learning distributed systems or networking

but yeah, not for very beginners

[vapid jay]

hey guys

which country is best for computer science education all over the world?

[vapid jay]

oh lord

[brisk stump]

Hello guys, is anyone one here in El Paso Texas?

[honest pivot]

Fluent Python looks like it covers a nice set of topics, but it was also published in 2015. We're using Python 3.8 and will upgrade to 3.9 soon, is there something more up-to-date?

[subtle flint]

wrong shit mb

[honest pivot]

It's a small team of people and I am generally recognized as the expert in both algorithms and software design. I am effectively the team leader, I just don't have formal authority in a job title (although that should change soon).

I don't rewrite a lot of code. It's only happened a few times. I generally try to redirect people's efforts towards less critical parts of the codebase. The people who tend to write wonky code do have other strengths. But in general, with such a small team, one doesn't have the luxury to say "Not my responsibility". Our goal is to deliver something, and we all depend on it being successful.

But no worries, my efforts are definitely recognized and appreciated. That isn't the problem here. I just want my colleagues to improve to where I can be confident in delegating to them. At the moment we do a lot of pair programming, which doesn't allow me to work on something else.

[vapid jay]

Oh, ok makes sense good luck bro

👍

[marsh wind]

Fluent python is getting 2nd edition I think 3.7 for sure maybe 3.8. Even with 1st edition many people say that topics the books covers remain useful

[gray anvil]

dunno

[gray anvil]

it's kinda nice being team code guru tho isn't it

[honest pivot]

For sure, although there is still definitely a lot I don't know, and I spend a decent amount of time making sure I understand something before I tell anyone else how it should be. 🙂

[gray anvil]

you're the most interested in finding out, and that's what's important 💪

[dim jay]

Hey guys, I would like some advice, please. How can I market myself on the internet? Because I do not want to be a Content Creator, but use the time that I would be creating and editing videos to improve my hard and soft skills. But, if I do not produce content, how would people find me? What can I do?

I feel sad because today if you want to get notice you should produce content and get engagement. This is so sad. Black mirror is becoming real.

[sudden quartz]

... yes? Is that now how everything has been, always and ever?

RIP startups that dont do any advertisement

[teal ruin]

just saying 8gb ram is just fine too..

[sudden quartz]

https://everythingcomputerscience.com/books/Computer Science Field Guide - Student Version.pdf

[vapid jay]

Anybody here working in the field of data science?

[sudden quartz]

I study it, if thats enough credential to speak on it

[maiden stirrup]

Does anyone know any companies that do coding interships for High Schoolers?

[vapid jay]

I'm currently training on data analytics, can you tell me the difference between data analyst and a data scientist? and how can I become a data scientist while working as data analyst?

[sudden quartz]

You'll have better luck checking for programs from educational institutions. I think Sandia National Labs allows HS students. good luck

[dim jay]

sorry??

[sudden quartz]

Data Analytics is studing the data without the usage of the tools. Its one step in the Data Science process. Job positions may vary but Data Analytics are typically just using their stats skills and mabye domain knowledge to make assumptions on cleaned data.
Data Science is the entire process of data mining to domain assumption. It of course is more around the board, but again, job positions vary. To become a Data Scientist check to see if you can get positions on the data engineering end of the spectrum. Get familiar with the tools, understand the tools. Another option is doing research projects in machine learning/data mining/data science or building software or doing datathons/hackathons

[vapid jay]

any link for a headstart? like a tutorial?

[sudden quartz]

to market yourself, get out there, make connections, have popular figures vouch for you

[maiden stirrup]

Okay, i'll check it out. Thank you

[sudden quartz]

DMs, i have a ton

[dim jay]

Sure, but I would have to produce content, for social media plataforms.

And I do not want to be "influencer". In fact, I HATE that word...

[dim jay]

Can I work with Data Science without a degree? There are some IBM professional certificates on Coursera that are good

[honest pivot]

It would be very hard to get into without a degree

[sudden quartz]

Hate to break it to you but thats literally how it works. Even blog writers who have PhDs write for science websites, and that is content creation on social media. If I want to write a novel, im going to social media to advertise, content create, and the like. idk what your issue is. If I want to do poetry or reviews or analysis i can post it all on twitter, etc.. This applies to literally everything, nothing wrong with being an influencer or content creator.

[sudden quartz]

very unlikely. and im suspicious of those data science certificates. itd be a lot to learn for a certificate.

[dim jay]

Actually I am on an Online Data Science degree. But, I mean, It takes 4 LONG YEARS, and the first 6 months are just things that are not related to data science

[vapid jay]

when you have time, pls check DM

[dim jay]

Yeah, I know that. I just do not want have to do TikTok, or go to Instagram, things like that

I started a youtube channel actually, to see how it will work. And I am also see how to produce for Linkedin and Twitter.

[honest pivot]

It takes (at least) 4 long years to learn enough data science to be useful. Fortunately you are on that path already. Don't stress about the first 6 months.

[dry sapphire]

🥴 I would disagree

[dim jay]

These are the things I will learn in the first 6 months: English, Basic Math, Computation Thinking, Scientific Methodology Ethics, Citizenship and Society Reading and Production of Texts

[sudden quartz]

insufficient data science credentials and capability can easily throw you into analytics

make sure to go for a position that data mines and analyzes at least

[dim jay]

Look at this! Of course, this is important stuff, but 6 MONTHS?!

[honest pivot]

6 months are pretty short

[sudden quartz]

that seems like a great program Felipe

[near ocean]

thats 5 modules lmao, its not that much
back in uni i had 8 modules per term and a term was 3 months

its not like you'll be a super expert by the end of the term, its probably going to be a light overview of each topic

[dim jay]

For a bachelor yes, but I don't know man.

I just have this feeling that certificates like the google ones will be more important than degrees

[sudden quartz]

yes it would does seem too low level thats a good complaint

[sudden quartz]

no, but mabye

[near ocean]

theres no way a certificate would ever be more valuable than a degree, ever

[dim jay]

I say for an ENTRY-LEVEL

[near ocean]

you think you dont need a degree for an entry level position?

[sudden quartz]

for an individual employer i could see someone valuing a long term certificate program, but you wont move up past super entry level i believe without a degree

[dim jay]

According to google, I don't.

[near ocean]

youre not even considered for internships if youre not a recent graduate or on track for a degree

[near ocean]

dont ask google, ask struggling graduates and unemployment rates

[dim jay]

Just being clear, I am not against degrees. I just think that the system is all wrong

[dim jay]

I mean google the company, not the search engine. Vice president of google said that

[near ocean]

rich people can say whatever they want, it doesnt make it true
i dont like having to get stacks of credentials either but i dont think certificates by a private company is the way forward

[dim jay]

I see

[honest pivot]

People with degrees are taking like 5-8 months and hundreds of applications to find an entry level job. I think the system is broken somehow, but your only practical solution is to make sure you get a degree.

[dim jay]

So, I will look for some Associate degree, it takes 2 years

[near ocean]

if you can afford it you should just do the regular bachelor
and by afford i mean wont absolutely bankrupt you, not "having to give up some luxuries"

[dim jay]

Actually I can totally pay an Associate degree. You know, time is money guys, 4/5 years for a degree don't work anymore. Technology changes fast.

[near ocean]

associate degrees dont offer the same accreditations bachelor degrees do tho

[dim jay]

Well, as the book 'Think Python' says: A computer Scientist must solve problems. If a company prefers to look at a degree more than look to my abilties to problem-solving, I think the problem is not me

[honest pivot]

Sounds like a very principled way to have a very hard time in the job market

[dim jay]

I know that the path without a degree is harder, and I would have to work harder, but I think that is it. Thank all of you guys who answered me and for the advices.

[near ocean]

degrees dont teach you current technology, if you're doing an associate instead of a bachelor to "keep up with the trends" youre shooting yourself in both feet

[sudden quartz]

using tool is one thing understanding it is another

[inner wren]

Hey @ornate creek!

It looks like you tried to attach a Python file - please use a code-pasting service such as https://paste.pythondiscord.com

[buoyant seal]

totally depends on country ;b
easily googled for any country too

https://www.mygreatlearning.com/blog/python-developer-salary-in-india/#:~:text=How much do Python developers,2.

[near ocean]

you can just look it up on glassdoor

[marsh wind]

thing is, degree is more than just some hard skills you learn. It's also about learning to learn (it might though ridiculous but it's true), being able to solve problem both independently and in a team, communication skills, presentation skills, some fundamentals that often has nothing to do with what you will be doing in future but might help you to understand why certain things are done one way or another.
It's true that tech change fast, but mostly uni don't attempt to follow the tech that much, it's not their goal. I.e. many people who learned CS said they never learned about git/vcs, automated testing and other stuff that is generally useful and used.

[dim jay]

So, what do you think? Worth time on this?

sorry, wrong language hahaha

[marsh wind]

lol I notice. Yes, it's usually worth the time. Don't forget that it'll also help you to build your initial network and potentially secure your first job thanks to good internship

[dim jay]

But it's an online degree, in my case.

And the university is not so famous in my country

Just hate my country man. I live in Brazil. Here people do not care about tech and science

[marsh wind]

oh, I've not notcied ablout online.... mhm I am not exactly ready to advice about Brazil

[dim jay]

That's why I said about the professional certificates. I am in a shit country, and in a shit university that nobody knows right now

[marsh wind]

Problem is certificates by themselves usually arr next to worthless. And if you want into AI/DS/ML no degree can be your roadblock

[wanton linden]

If I'm trying to make myself as marketable of a python dev as I can, should I learn Django or Flask? Which one is more likely to get me a job?

[digital fjord]

check your local job offers, though to my knowledge most areas have more django than flask

[devout galleon]

let me know if anyone needs reference for job switch - PAN India

for Hexaware / CTS

[near ocean]

Youre giving out references?

[minor solstice]

Guy's if anybody have an idea what skill is needed for becoming a python freelancer

I mean to say what type of task client give to python freelancer generally

[minor solstice]

Can anybody tell me

[stone trout]

I came here to tell u that I don't know answer to your question since you were spamming in other channel

[near ocean]

No

[icy pagoda]

it's usually django, web scraping, miscellaneous scripts and data science ig

[minor solstice]

Ok i understood

[sage pumice]

maybe for an internship

[empty mirage]

Should i use codecademy for python courses

Is it any good

[near ocean]

Not really a careers related question, try #python-discussion

[wanton linden]

If I wanted to go into backend development, would both Django and SQL benefit the most, or should I just start with Django?

[wanton linden]

Most listings are looking for either full-stack devs or senior devs. Is junior backend dev not really a thing?

I would think you would have to either do an internship or do freelance work where age doesn't really matter.

[smoky quest]

Start simple with one thing at a time. Eventually you should know both for backend, but you can start to learn one at a time

[wanton linden]

Awesome, thanks. I wasn't sure if you had to know one or the other or both.

[smoky quest]

check out https://roadmap.sh

[wanton linden]

Could I get a backend job just knowing python and sql or just python and django?

[smoky quest]

maybe, but that wouldn't be more on the simple jobs side

[wanton linden]

What do you mean?

[smoky quest]

backend is a lot more complicated than writing some simple facade for a db. So if you only know these 2 and do not have real world experience, then you won't be able to demonstrate advanced backend skills, this lowering your chances to get such jobs

There is a reasons people spend 3-5 years in school...

[wanton linden]

Okay, so before seeking jobs I would want proficient skills in all three

[smoky quest]

More than these three. See the roadmap

[wanton linden]

Right, thanks

[gritty rivet]

Here's a curriculum for a bootcamp I'm currently studying in. It touches on Django (also Flask) but the emphasis is way heavier in SQL. Based on what I hear from people in the industry, it's possible to land a job where you learn Django as you go if your foundation in SQL and Python are strong. But if developing website in Django is really what interests you, just go for it. Being good at what you do probably matters more then whether it's SQL or Django... They are very different skills and both are in demand. SQL has the more general applicability though for sure. https://www.nucamp.co/bootcamp-overview/back-end-sql-devops-python

[wanton linden]

Thanks for the link. I'm not entirely sure which path I want to go down yet. I'm not sure if I want to focus more on servers or databases. I just know I really like Python and want to get proficient at it.

[marsh wind]

There's s good reason to put emphasis on sql. First, as you said it's more general skill. Second, there are surprisingly few junior or even more experienced dev who really are good at it..

[gritty rivet]

Makes sense

[marsh wind]

Pls check the channel topic. It's not job board, recruitment is not permitted

[near ocean]

can we have this removed before some poor soul gets tricked into wasting their time

[sage pumice]

that kind of work and only 6k a month? good luck lol

[marsh wind]

<@&831776746206265384>

[marsh wind]

Depending on location 6k net can be very good money. But point is, this is not the place

[thorny tangle]

👋 I know this is an old post, but if you see this, what did you think of the program? I just registered for the same bootcamp. 🙂

[gritty rivet]

I love it so far! The teaching material itself is nothing phenomenal, but the structure and the learning community has been the perfect opportunity for me to start buckling down and getting serious. It's a new program but the folks who have graduated from their other programs are getting pretty good results. The Slack channels are great and that's how I know.

I guess I'm not supposed to tell you here that you can DM me so I won't.

[thorny tangle]

That's great news! Oh and challenge accepted. 😄 Thanks for letting me know! I'll be sure to check slack out too.

[gloomy matrix]

how do we put a variable?

[near ocean]

this isnt a help channel, if you need help with python you can ask in #python-discussion or claim a help channel #❓｜how-to-get-help

[fickle flax]

hello I was wondering, for machine learning internships how much must i know to apply as a student?

[vapid jay]

thanks your reply.
In the UK the machine learning programs typically begin at masters and offered only to those who already have a computer sci or quantitative bachelors.
Unfortunately I didn't take a quantitative discipline for Bachelors, I took a humanity.

There are 1-year CompSci "conversion" masters programs you can do here to switch from an unrelated subject like mine. would obviously be more superficial than bachelors but it would be something and a door in to further study etc.

I am now 28. My programming has been self learning and doing, I have followed a few courses though. In any case, programming is an interest of mine and would be useful in whatever path I go down.

I could start a new bachelors from scratch which could seem like a bit of a waste of time at my age, given
there are various apprenticeships and on-the-job training programs that accept people who don't have a compsci degree but interest and experience programming. but those opportunities are almost always test or software dev related and less on the machine learning/ai side. cyber security also seems another area where you must have the degree.

I'm pretty confused about what path to go down. It seems stupid to have two bachelors, and I'm already 28. I have a feeling employers would say "wait, you took two bachelors? and you are how old?"
but on the other hand I do have an interest in various fields just not sure if worth pursuing through more studying. Or if I should just keep self-learning and look for opportunities that'd train me up further

[sudden quartz]

I will say you may be underestimating a computer science curriculum. https://towardsdatascience.com/took-a-masters-in-machine-learning-and-i-was-very-unprepared-7aba95f044a8

[sudden quartz]

I cant predict an answer that applies to general machine learning internships. What kind? SWE? likely the basic CS fundamentals like any other cs internship, but show focus on ML , like mabye research or a course

[vapid jay]

It's difficult for me to say from my perspective, because many people say that while their compsci degree gave them a background / theoretical understanding, the languages and tools they actually ended up using at work were never covered on their degree and had to be learned outside of that.

[fickle flax]

Oh i guess like machine learning roles, but do you know any non profit organization or companies that hire students for ML?

[sudden quartz]

Its difficult from my perspective as well, because of course idk what you are capable of. Because using the tools is different from understanding them or being highly skilled with them. Would you be able to enter a postgrad course in Chemistry or Mathematics? Even if you do get into the postgrad CS will you be able to keep up with the intensity? These are all questions to answer and varies immensely from people taking less and more courses than another. And anyone can code Connect 4 but can you do it in a week with multiple other assignments? The projects you have done I dont believe is sufficient, CS isnt programming, and the things you have programmed arent in the AI area. have you done data structures?

[fickle flax]

Myself yeah i come from cs degree background and it true you have to learn practical by your self

[smoky quest]

the latest tools and languages aren't that important. That's not where the secret sauce is and they can be picked up pretty quickly once you have the theory.

[vapid jay]

The post graduate degree conversion is designed specifically for people who do not come from a computer science background, as a fresh introduction to computer science.

Which is why it is not the same thing as jumping into a chemistry or maths masters. If those subject courses were designed as a conversion degree that was also targeted to people coming from a different background, then potentially, yes, as I studied Maths and Chemistry A Level and got As I'm both of them.

I don't really understand your belligerent or haughty tone. Not everyone in the tech world has done a computer science degree. Not everyone follows the same path.

I'm just repeating what other people have told me regarding what they actually used in programming not being covered on their degree.
There are genuinely plenty of graduate schemes here in the UK that accept people onto coding programs without a degree in computer science. Similarly there are also apprenticeships.

I am fully aware that the things I have programmed so far at not in the AI area.

Thanks for your unwelcoming and patronising tone though, I'm sure you do well on softer skills

[smoky quest]

One approach you can try, if you really want to get into AI/ML, is taking the Applied Intelligence route.
Which means focusing on how to leverage AI/ML in terms of features. So a lot more practical approach than focused on analysis. Tons of companies would love to leverage the data they have

[vapid jay]

Thank you, I will look into it

[sudden quartz]

What I said was referring to the MS degree specifically, my bad. https://elitedatascience.com/learn-machine-learning?utm_source=mybridge&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=read_more That said there are certainly no limits to self learning, and you already have a degree, I know plenty of brilliant programmers that arent from CS degrees at all. But ultimately theyre mainly good at the job and using the tools. I dont mean to gatekeep ML, but im am just making a point of difficulty, not only in the content but also getting a position, and competition

[tight kestrel]

Im still in high school but im thinking about software engineering what should i start doing rn at this point?

[smoky quest]

learn about programming, make some games, tinker with things and have fun with it

[tight kestrel]

ok thank you i just started with python not too long ago so im still new to it

[spiral silo]

hi there, I hope everyone its okay. i text bc I want to know if someone knows a free online course or not so expensive for lerning back end development with django. from beginning to mid maybe advance pls

[smoky quest]

https://www.cosmicpython.com/book/preface.html It's more focused on flask but it's a pretty good book

[vapid jay]

can anyone tell me about the most common languauges which is used
and their specialities

[smoky quest]

depends on the purpose

[vapid jay]

i mean, i want to know in which field which languages are mostly used
for eg.- py is good for AI

[smoky quest]

that's a question for google

[vapid jay]

lol k

is r rust??

[smoky quest]

nope

different things.
But these have nothing to do with #career-advice . So wrong channel for these discussions

[vapid jay]

k

[crude moon]

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#overview

[frank night]

к

[last fossil]

hi guyss

anyone there. i love computers in a way and want to start my journey into coding. can anyone tell me how shall i begin.

[balmy mural]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[vapid jay]

@smoky quest neat ay?

[near ocean]

Extracurriculars like hackathons, olympiads, other competitions

If you have open source contributions i'd give a small list of those too

[dim jay]

Hey guys. What social media channels do you think is good for personal branding? I mean, I want to get some freelancing jobs. I like Linkedin and Twitter, two great plataforms. But Instagram and Facebook are not my style, and I don't trust them (about privacy). What do you guys think?

[dim jay]

Start learning a programming language (Python, of course. But JavaScript is also ok for beginners). Them, learn a Database, and how to integrate it with you programming language. Them study algorithms and Data Structures. Learn some frameworks for you programming language. And if you want to learn some cloud plataform (AWS, GCP, Watson) I think it's a great idea!

[dim jay]

But, you should know what you want: Front end, Back end, Data Science, DevOps, Cloud, UX/UI

[sudden quartz]

This is just an example for the sake of an answer, you could use a multiple languages for every field specialization
AI - Python
HCI - Javascript
Game Dev - C#
Networks - C
Graphics - C++
InfoSec - Python, C
Data Science - Python
SWE - Java
Systems - C++

[vapid jay]

:0 ty

[idle mango]

Hi

Guys

[sudden quartz]

#python-discussion

[last fossil]

Tysm

I’ll look forward towards it

[dim jay]

Hey, I also recommend READ BOOKS. Don't just watch youtube tutorials!!

And also, don't just learn all this, learn how to SOLVE PROBLEMS. That's your goal as a programmer

[tawdry grove]

Why would you read books, just make what you want and learn that way and it won’t be as nearly brain numbing…

[ancient star]

leraning programming in own mother toungue is the best..........

[dim jay]

Books, reading in general, are the best way to learn something. Reading is an active activity, and videos are passive. And also books are more profound and teach more relevant stuff.

The problem is that people watch this tutorials on youtube, and they do not learn how to SOLVE PROBLEMS. They only learn to copy and paste code.

[radiant moon]

I dissent
books may be the best way for some people, sometimes.
Personally I learn by doing
I doubt I'm alone

[dim jay]

I see, but I think you did not understand my point

The best way to get information and learn something is by reading, there's no "for some people"

at some point you will have to read documentations or books, tech books

[radiant moon]

heh

[dim jay]

Also reading makes you practice attention, something rare these days.

[tawdry grove]

Books in programming are references. You will not learn that way. You have to create projects and solely code. I would not just try to learn by reading a book or watching videos.

[sage pumice]

reading is not an active activity, it's the same as watching a video

[wanton linden]

That's not necessarily true. If you look up "how to make blank with python" then yeah you'll be copy-pasting code and won't learn anything. But if you look up "python loops" or "python dictionaries" you can learn specific things and then practice them. Personally, I've found some really good Udemy courses that have a good mix of exercises and video learning that help me. Some people can go to the python docs and learn there. That's valid too. I don't think it matters where you learn (reading or videos) but how. If you read books or watch videos, you have to practice. If you don't, then it's all for nothing.

[limpid shadow]

please help
i want to pursue a cs degree but i am scared of math

[radiant moon]

either lose your fear of math, or choose a different degree
hint: very little math is really needed for many CS jobs.
However, CS degrees might require a lot of math.

[limpid shadow]

i am willing to get better at math, to be able to make it in cs degree. I am willing to do anything to get better at math, i am willing to practice ten times a day. I love programming and just cs and ai in general. Do you think i can make it in the comp sci degree? I love math, but i am just not that good at it i am not the fastest at math but i can get ahold of certain concepts, just not the fastest. I like math when i am able to solve it most of the times.

[radiant moon]

well if you're willing to do anything, then what's the problem?

[limpid shadow]

i am just scared i wont make it, i have anxiety issues, and this makes me rethink life at most times.

[radiant moon]

heh
well I doubt I can help with that. I will say I dropped out of college and have been happily working as a programmer ever since.
so that might be the worst-case scenario, and for me anyway, it wasn't bad at all

[limpid shadow]

Ok thanks i dont want to drop out but i am willing to push through even through the hardest of challenges

[radiant moon]

you sound like the best possible student
of course you're anxious. School is scary. Hint: life is scary

[limpid shadow]

I know thanks, I appreciate that I got to talk to you i will remember this convo and come back to it every time I get demotivated. Is it possible for me to add you as a friend? also I am deciding on taking two aps a year in high school. for 9th grade i decided on ap psych and ap econ and for grade 10 ap stats and ap cs and 11th i decided for ap calc ab and ap physics. I think this is a pretty good for a comp sci major.

[sour steppe]

hey whats the difference between backend engineer and backend developer? is it same?

[wanton linden]

You are waaaaay overthinking this. You can get a CS degree with passable math skills. It all depends on what you want to do with that degree. Getting a Masters and going into machine learning or AI might be tricky, but it's certainly doable especially if you have an attitude of "I want to do this so I will learn how to do this". You're also in high school, which means you have years and years ahead of you to improve your skills. I'm 29 years old and only now teaching myself code so I can enter the field. You are probably 11 - 13 years younger than me, so you have so much time to figure out what you want to do and pursue it. From your comments though it sounds like you're on the best track towards success, so stick with it! There's zero reason to be anxious or worried. It isn't as hard as you think it is, trust me.

[limpid shadow]

Thanks

[vapid jay]

thanks, that link looks useful.

it's okay, I get that there are plenty of people out there who are already better prepared than me,
but I also can't change that I'm at where I am at, I can't change my past or my background, as much as I would like to.

[floral kayak]

Heyy guys.., i'm confused if I want to become a Software Developer then should I go for Science or Commerce field?

[north shadow]

it really depends on ur preference

[rustic sequoia]

realistically speaking, how hard is to make an app

[radiant moon]

depends on a million things
you, for one thing; the kind of app, for another

in some sense, this is an app: ```py
print("Hello, world")

[rustic sequoia]

oh I meant like

[radiant moon]

if you mean: the sort of app that normal humans would pay money for? Pretty hard, if you've never done it

[rustic sequoia]

oh I see

[radiant moon]

but as I said: it depends on you. i suspect there's something about me that makes it hard for me to get my head around apps; perhaps you'd do better than I do

[rustic sequoia]

Or you pretty much have to invent new code?

[radiant moon]

oh there's tons of stuff out there
you can do it; it's just time and effort

[rustic sequoia]

oh so people don't usually do it because it is too much effort and time (with no guarantee of success)?

it is really competitive nowadays I imafin

imagine*

[radiant moon]

Hell, I don't know why other people do, or don't do, anything; I just (sometimes) know why I do

[smoky quest]

• A lot of people don't do it because they don't how how
• A lot of people do it but fail for some reason

[radiant moon]

if you're actually trying to make money, well ... all I can say is: if it were easy, everybody'd be doing it

[rustic sequoia]

lol good point

[vapid jay]

Would you guys say starting out in a company that designes and creates betting solutions is a bad career call?
As a junior

[radiant moon]

no idea
depends on the company

if what the company is doing is flat-out illegal where you live, and if you'd prefer not to be arrested, or have to bribe cops, then yes; it's probably a bad career call

[vapid jay]

oh god no, nothing like that

[gritty rivet]

Good, total non-issue then

If some hypothetical future company doesn't want to hire you because you just because you have that on your resume, would you really even want to work for that hypothetical company anyway?

[vapid jay]

The reasoning I got is that having work experience in a company that does stuff like that might taint my cv, but I mean experience is experience.

[radiant moon]

I'd worry much more about not having the experience in the first place

[vapid jay]

True

[radiant moon]

go, work; I doubt most of us consider our first jobs to have been ideal

[vapid jay]

I mean the conditions are great. The pay is great, the benefits are amazing

It's a bigish company where I feel I might learn some stuff actually. It feels like a good opportunity

[radiant moon]

geez Louise; you're better off than 85% of the people here 🙂

[vapid jay]

I'm really lucky

[shell tangle]

@radiant moon heyy give me a chance, new to programming

[radiant moon]

?

[shell tangle]

that one

[radiant moon]

well, do you have a better job than Grincek? If so, congratulations; if not, I stand by my statement 🙂

[near ocean]

Could be worse, could be fInTeCh

[radiant moon]

I hear those guys make piles of $ though

[tacit ore]

I’m not that active in here hi everyone

I’m in a dilemma and can use some objective advice

[near ocean]

If you could tolerate finance dudebros then yes

[tacit ore]

I’m a software engineer mostly building internal facing data products for a large company.

I was asked if I’d be interested in stepping away from engineering to become a Product Owner over some of our digital analytic products.

What what you guys do? Stay doing individual contributor work or take the challenge of Product Owner working between engineers and the business. I’m torn

[balmy spade]

You you like the prospective of leadership over hands-on-code?

[near ocean]

Can we have a rundown of the responsibilities of a product owner so that myself and other people have some context for the convo

[tacit ore]

So the product owner would lead a team of engineers, architects, designers to deliver certain analytic products. One example is like implementing a ML algo on customer data in real time. We don’t have that currently so I’d be in charge of:

• user stories
• road maps
• making sure the business + engineers/devs are all on the same page
• communicating out to leadership progress
• negotiating for resources

This is an example of one product. Eventually I’d lead multiple products and do the same. Very different from the heads down work I do now

[near ocean]

That sounds like a lot of work and responsibilities but also a nice way to be truly impactful in the company

[honest pivot]

I would be excited about a leadership opportunity, but that's me. I suppose there's a chance that it will be more work than you're currently doing. Hopefully it comes with a nice raise.

[balmy spade]

What you posted is a very good summary of the common responsibilities of Product Owners. First and foremost communication and followed very quickly by leadership. It's a rough role. You are managing the times, duties, goals, and path of a team. When they don't work together, you get to put the train back on the rails. When the business wants something "urgently" it's the PO that gets to be the voice of "This is when we can deliver".

But I've seen people absolutely thrive in it

Too much leadership for me . I care not to be the caretaker. I lead from a teaching role instead and lean on my own product owner to make all the magic happen.

[tacit ore]

This is my dilemma. I’ve never done it and a few people that know me well think I’d thrive in the role. Including the person who is trying to recruit me.

Seems there’s a gap for this role at company

[balmy spade]

Companies generally are cautious at who they want in those roles. I'd take that as a compliment, for sure 😉

[tacit ore]

I never looked at it that way but that makes sense

[balmy spade]

Maybe they see you doing something from your current position and they want to draw that out to the forefront. It's not the end of the engineering part of our jobs either. Being able to think at a capability level of the product is a huge win for a PO. Not only are you steering a ship, you understand what it's capable of.

You could just ask the recruiter. "What made you offer this to me? I want to make sure that is something I see myself continuing to develop."

[tacit ore]

I think that’s my biggest fear. If I’m taken away from coding and doing hands on work I fear my skill set and “edge” will degrade.

That’s a good point you bring up. I did ask the recruiter just that question. They’re response no lie was “we’ve watched you work from afar for a while and know that you were made for this role we are also struggling and finding good people in this role”

Not word-for-word I am paraphrasing but that was their response to my question on why me

[balmy spade]

This is a tough one to handle. For me, I started reminding myself that yes, I'm good at [some thing]. Really good. But I'm not here because I was good at it. I'm here because I was able to become good at it. It's that "able to learn" part that gives me the edge and I take that with me to any role. (I recently changed roles so this is more a pep talk to myself too )

[balmy spade]

I read this as "You're responsible, we can trust you, and you've overcome challenges." Certainly a good compliment. Not much meat to chew on heh

[tacit ore]

Yeah unfortunately not much there. I’m in a weird spot. But thank you your responses were helpful.

[shadow moss]

It’s very manager and business focused.

So if you want to be a people person, go for it. It’s a lot less crazy then development. Also, are you American?

[smoky quest]

it's crazy in its own way :p

[shadow moss]

It generally involves less hours and keeping up on latest tech

[smoky quest]

it depends

It's such case by case basis that I wouldn't make any generalization.

[shadow moss]

Per standard definition of Product Owner , they tend to not make tech decisions. Their job is to keep train on time, not run the locomotive

[rustic sequoia]

Hello

[shadow moss]

This is career discussion, try off topic channel.

[rustic sequoia]

okau

where is that channel

@shadow moss

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:
• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Their names change randomly every 24 hours, but you can always find them under the OFF-TOPIC/GENERAL category in the channel list.

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[rustic sequoia]

Thank you

[smoky quest]

The standard definition is rather about having the product owner being accountable for the product direction, not its execution, which falls on the EM. They have to be aware of the market, competition, painpoints, what users are experiencing and need to answer to a lot of people without having the real accountability or power behind it.
That said, I find it unhealthy to enter in a competition of who has it better. So I am gonna stop here on that topic

[gritty rivet]

The Coding Den is a popular server with a Java channel

[tacit ore]

American POC yes. I do agree more people interactions and a different lens. I find my focus is narrow with my work now though I try and think ahead when I am developing. Seems this PO role would be similar to how some of you and more recently how @smoky quest described. The appealing part to me is being aware of the market and competition. As a developer speaking for myself that has not been my focus in my experience. Keeping up with latest tech yes that’s important but I don’t obsess over the market or competition as I believe I would should I step into a PO role.

[smoky quest]

What I have seen done for this type of transition is to give it a try for 3 months and deciding at the end if you want to stick with it or go back to what you were doing

[tacit ore]

Now that’s actionable and reasonable piece of advice I have not heard yet

Thank you sincerely! It didn’t occur to me that I can possibly ask for that

[smoky quest]

It's in everyone's interest. If you don't like it, you may end up leaving. So might was well have you where you can contribute the most. And doing it on a trial basis give you the taste and experience to make a more informed decision.
Even if it doesn't work out, it's pretty good to you anyway as it gives you another perspective

[tacit ore]

Thank you kindly I agree and this gives me a new way to approach the conversation

[smoky quest]

Also my advice is to try to find the right balance between shepherding and controlling a product.
Everyone has an opinion on the product but it also surfaces a lot of the issues related to the 5 blind men problem.

There is no perfect decision and you won't get things right from the get go. So try to incorporate iterations/postmortems/retrospectives and don't beat yourself up for every decisions that did not pan out

And don't let irrational fears hold you back in your decision to switch or not

[south anvil]

This is my dilemma, in my country there are only 2 degrees for careers about TI, system engineering that is the most popular, and Computer Science that is relatively new, and I don’t know which one choose, there are more programming courses in system engineering and in CS are more math and a few courses about programming. I'm in a boot camp and all of my programming teachers are system engineers so that I don’t know which is better.Which one should I choose?

[smoky quest]

• We don't know your country
• We don't know the definition of system engineering or computer science for your country, except one has more math than the other
• We don't know your goal, what you care about

That means we are supposed to help you based on one has more math but is about computer science, for some definition of computer science, and the other has more programming but we know nothing beyond that.
That is not enough information for me to say anything helpful at this stage. So can you expand a bit?

[south anvil]

I’m from Colombia, and these are some definitions of the programs in the universities of my country:
System Engineering:
The purpose of Systems Engineering is to model and implement complex systems, Systems Engineering integrates other disciplines, applies mathematical sciences and computer sciences for the development of Systems. The most relevant aspects involved in computer science are: information and communication theories, computational complexity theory, programming languages theory, computer programming and systems theories.
Computer Science:
The program aims to train professionals with an integrative vision of mathematics and the theory of computer systems, with a high academic and human quality, with the capacity for multidisciplinary work, who contribute through the exercise of their profession to the transmission of their knowledge and the solution of problems arising from the academic, social, environmental, industrial, business and technological sectors.
I would like to work as a software engineer, and I know that is important math for algorithms, and data structures, but I don’t know which degree choose. thank you in advance.

[gritty rivet]

Which one interests you more? That's probably the most important question. The more interested you are in the material, the more likely you are to thrive in it. How intensely and steadily you practice and learn matters more than what you learn.

[south anvil]

I like the systems engineering curriculum because it has more programming courses, but I heard that math is more important for problem solving and that programming skills are self-taught.

[naive night]

Hi everyone. I’m completely new here. As in, I have zero computer science background. I’m looking for a career change from medical office work. Trying new fields. As a hobby, I enjoy learning spoken languages, and python doesn’t seem too different. I just went through an IBM online course on Python, and it seemed alright though I was craving more creativity. In general, am I fantasizing too much out of my bubble to see if there’s a potential career path in this field? I appreciate anyone’s thoughts

[gritty rivet]

There are definitely jobs in Python but it tends to be more back-end / database oriented. If you don't feel that interested in persuing it you might consider learning front-end languages like JavaScript. Alternatively, a lot of creatives who like working with tech but aren't as interested in writing code directly focus on the field know as UX design (user experience)

[radiant moon]

programming languages have more or less nothing to do with spoken languages.
I don't want to discourage you from learning python; it's great. But ... it really is nothing like a human language

[gritty rivet]

If you do like Python and want to apply it creatively to website building, learn Django

[naive night]

Thanks! I think I’m not minding backend. Actually, I really don’t know since I’ve not really delved into it yet. Sorry, I don’t mean to imply I’m a creative. I meant that I found the online course I’ve tried a little lackluster in terms of its approach (the lesson was even using an artificial narrator), and am in search of another one, because I’m still curious.

[naive night]

Oh, is it that different? I know the function is quite distinct. I guess I’m seeing it from a syntactical and logical point

[radiant moon]

they couldn't be more different

a programing language is a simple set of formal rules, constructed by one or a small number of humans over a short period of time, for a very very narrow purpose.
A human language is ... well, you know what that is 🙂
It's an unfortunate coincidence that we use the same word for both

[gritty rivet]

That just sounds like a question of finding the right learning resources. You might consider doing a more advanced bootcamp. I'm in one now for Python + SQL. There is an active community of students and teachers on Slack supporting each other. The narrator of the videos is an actual human who responds to questions even.

[naive night]

That’s a refreshing point. I think i’ve just gained a higher appreciation for human language and coding (if that’s the correct term)! 😂 it’s getting really internally philosophical for me now on what language really is.

[naive night]

Is there one or a few of these bootcamps you could point me towards? I’d like to look into that.

[smoky quest]

yeah, typically the higher abstraction level, the more versatile it will be.
Sounds like either way, you would learn programming, and either way you would become a software engineer.

One way to assess that is to look on linkedin (or equivalent for your country) what kind of jobs are the previous students doing, or looking at the percentage of students who further their studies (ex: phd)

[vapid jay]

So im currently a 16 year old student trying to possibly become a data analyst or any decent computer science job in the future, would learning python pre university help me or would i not have a use for python is such a field?

[honest pivot]

Learning any language is better that learning no languages. At your stage, just pick something and make a hobby of it. Python is certainly used a lot professionally, and is easy to learn.

[vapid jay]

I guess so, thank you sir for your insight 🙏

[smoky quest]

also python is used a lot in relation to data. So it will be useful

[smoky quest]

also not sure about the tos about usernames, but your username might be considered offensive, fyi

[vapid jay]

oh sorry about that i changed it
and thanks for the info

[smoky quest]

np. Thanks!

[sturdy crypt]

Hello guys, i have a question... what does a cyber security do???

[dry sapphire]

depends.

[sturdy crypt]

In general?

[dry sapphire]

but in general, your job is related to scanning software/networks for vulnerabilities.

[sturdy crypt]

Like? Can u explain more pls??

[dry sapphire]

okay, let's take web dev. a malicious actor can steal data by doing things like XSS (cross-site scripting, which makes other people's browsers run their code), code injection (running their code on your server), CSRF (cross-site request forgery, which makes other people send commands they didn't intend), etc.

one aspect of cybersecurity would involve auditing code for such vulnerabilities

[sturdy crypt]

Oh ok... another question... me as a cyber security student/worker, can i hack stuffs, or hacking is another/different thing?

[lament pawn]

How can i learn to write design docs and other documentation ?

[clear swan]

EVERYONE

[slim flower]

@clear swan Please can you not use this discord guild to troll/meme. Keep it relevant to the channel topics.

[clear swan]

ok...

[lethal flower]

hey i have a question do y’all know any good free python courses

[clear swan]

ye, any topic in particular?

[lethal flower]

Nothing really in particular just looking for basics but also sort of a challenge

[lethal flower]

what do you mean by this?

[vocal blade]

So recently when i was doing a yt video on pandas py i thought that after following this tutorial anyone will be able to do this so like why does that make me worthy of getting a job in that domain

[lethal flower]

Yes your job would be ethically hacking so yes you would have to hack them and make a report on how they would improve their security

[sturdy crypt]

I mean if i study cyber security, i would be able to hack phones, pc, sitesz etc.??

[lethal flower]

yes

just know man it’s not like the movies 😄

[sturdy crypt]

Yh i know lol

[lethal flower]

thank god

[lament pawn]

If its illegal dont do it.
Its just like breaking into a bank or someone's home there are real life consequences for that.

[balmy mural]

!resources all the courses in here are good. Personally I liked Automate the Boring Stuff

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/resources

[balmy mural]

Just knowing pandas won't get you a job in the domain(assuming you're talking about data science and related domains)

[boreal cradle]

you can if they guys are criminal or have did something wrong

[sturdy crypt]

Oh ok

[dry sapphire]

do you really...?

[sturdy crypt]

I dont know if i rlly know lol

[gritty rivet]

@naive night There are many review/comparison sites to help you research them. They vary a lot by subject, time commitment and cost. The Python one I'm doing is with Nucamp. It's 10-20 hours per week for four months and the cost is quite reasonable compared to most.

[dry sapphire]

why do you want this?

[lament pawn]

I don't think most paid options are worth it .
There's a lot of good free resources

[sturdy crypt]

Idk... just a question... i know that i shouldnt use hack stuffs to hurt others

[gritty rivet]

There was more context to the conversation like 8h ago, but I agree that there are a lot of good and free resources

[twin cloud]

I just finished this python course, it covered all the basics and some advanced stuff. (so I'm still a beginner) But how do I get some good experience? I don't have projects of my own that I want to do. And coding exercises bore me. It needs to be something exciting so I stay motivated. Is there like a place to go where I can offer my help on community projects or something?

[lament pawn]

!projects @twin cloud

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[inner wren]

Hey @limpid shadow!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[vapid jay]

Hey there, anyone here who has a certification in cfa or frm and has experience in python as well?

[quaint vessel]

Hello, I just recently quite my job and going to attend college full time, I’m going for Computer Science. I just want to ask if there’s a website or somewhere I can look for the tree of Computer science (showing all the different fields)

I've looked on different degrees and found some others that might be interesting. Such as Information technology management, cyber security and i don't know much about Data scientist / Analyst

[inner fox]

See this https://youtu.be/SzJ46YA_RaA

[vapid jay]

I am a young python coder

[lethal flower]

it’s not illegal. He would be contracted to attempt to gain access to a company system

[near ocean]

Studying cyber security doesnt make you an elite haxx0rz, the only thing you gain is eye strain from looking at code all day
This isnt hollywood

[nova ginkgo]

Heyo! So I was wondering how much experience/knowledge do you guys think is appropriate for applying for a Jr. Dev position in a company

[near ocean]

Anywhere between 0 to 2-3 years experience i would say

[stone nebula]

Hello there currently a 2nd year in a 5year m.tech integrated course in cse and I have to do internships between 2nd -4th year so like any idea where to look for to apply

[trim willow]

hey

can anyone tell me what kind of question they ask for a job

[radiant moon]

lots of questions

"why'd you quit your last job"
"tell me about a time you disagreed with your manager"
"if a Linux box refuses to create new files, but there's plenty of free disk space left, what might be the problem?"
...

[smoky quest]

depends on the job

There are quite a few resources (books, websites, blogs...) about interviews. You should google it

[near ocean]

Do you mean job interview or a task at work

[vapid jay]

is modmail made out of python

[near ocean]

Yes, but this isnt careers related

[astral kayak]

Is this where i post if looking to hire a python dev?

[radiant moon]

no
pretty sure they frown on recruiting here

[smoky quest]

Given the header of that channel has NOT FOR RECRUITMENT, that's a fair statement 🙂

[radiant moon]

heh
those letters are only 1/8" tall on my monitor

[astral kayak]

I am on mobile i didnt see that 🤦

[vapid jay]

How much experience should one have before beginning to apply for Python related internships as a high school student?

[radiant moon]

not a hell of a lot! you're in high school fer cryin' out loud

[vapid jay]

Is that a good thing or bad thing? I’m assuming you mean the bar is lower since I’m in high school?

[radiant moon]

yep
good thing

[reef flame]

I am an engineer looking for new employment. Where would be a good place to start looking? I recently graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science and have been working for almost 2 years in software engineering. Any suggestions where to go from here?

[trim willow]

task at work would help too

[trim willow]

ok I'll definitely check it out

[smoky quest]

linkedin, indeed, monster...

[reef flame]

I've been trying that with very little luck. I haven't tried monster, but maybe it's just the searches I've been doing. Thank you!

[smoky quest]

What do you mean with very little luck?
These are all mainstream and you shouldn't have any issue with them

[reef flame]

Just that even when I put in my experience level, 98% of the jobs say 10+ years of experience or so. Should I just apply to them anyway?

[smoky quest]

it depends.
If you have 8 years experience, then sure. If you have 1, you won't probably hear back from them

[reef flame]

ya... it's just been like that non stop and I'm not sure where to get more experience so I can get to that level. 🤷‍♂️

[smoky quest]

I would be very surprised if there are no jobs looking for people with less experience. Do you have a special niche or location?

[reef flame]

I've had most of my experience in full stack development. along with some in devops

[smoky quest]

that should be pretty popular

[reef flame]

Ya I would think so too. I guess I'll just keep my head to the grindstone. Thank you again!

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[lament pawn]

LinkedIn works in some places I got hired using linkedin

[woven raft]

How much is python actually used in the industry outside of data science fields. I've heard that besides data science, it's usually always just a good second or third option for any task or field

[smoky quest]

It's used a lot as glue code or in startups to get things going

[woven raft]

I gotcha. I'm assuming they use python because it's so quick to program in, but then they refactor the code into a different language sometime further down the road?

[sudden quartz]

automation

NLP/AI

[woven raft]

NLP and AI fall under data science don't they? Also automation makes a lot of sense. I've seen it used a lot in scripting

[sudden quartz]

More like: ML which is part of AI is used in Data Science.

[sudden quartz]

indeed and google. i wouldnt bother with linkedin

[reef flame]

Thanks all!

[lucid maple]

hello

[lavish warren]

I have a question. I’m thinking about dropping out of university and going into web development but idk how to get started or if I’d be able to find a job. I’m reading up on it and some say u can get hired if ur self taught and others say u need an associates. Help?

[sudden quartz]

Why are you dropping out

[vapid jay]

hi I work as a SWE but my fundamentals are very weak, Learning language is easy but i lack engineering skills. Any tips on how to improve that?

[sudden quartz]

pick up a book on SWE immedieately

[lavish warren]

im studying for ecology, while cool it isn't really my thing, i do the bare minimum to pass and dont like the work all that much. i figured id learn a trade and get money

[vapid jay]

@sudden quartz any recommendations?

[sudden quartz]

why dont you swap to IT then?

[sudden quartz]

DMs

[lavish warren]

its too late to change it, im in my 6th quarter and i dont have any of the requirements done for that major

not to mention it would be another 10k to pay off later

[sudden quartz]

you should really finish your degree. that way you can be hireable as a degree holder and be qualified for better jobs in general. you can always swap to the field of CS afterwards

if you can take some cs courses, take them. CS is so multidisciplinary, you can apply ML to ecology

[lavish warren]

thats the thing tho, i dont wanna do ecology. I'm more into getting a place and living already, yk? @sudden quartz

[sudden quartz]

you dont need to get a job in ecology if your degree is in ecology

highly recommend landing your degree then doing what you want

id be an earlier swap than a lot of people into CS

[lavish warren]

im still thinking it thru, i dont wanna do anything rash.

i wanna know tho is it hard getting a job in web dev wo a degree?@sudden quartz

[sudden quartz]

I dont know of any circumstance dropping a b.s. degree that late is a good idea tbh.

[sudden quartz]

I can imagine its hard getting any tech job without a degree but I know people who were great JS devs and dropped out of school, but they cant move forward or have much freedom in the company

[lavish warren]

thanks for the advice @sudden quartz im mostly worried about job security tbh

pay too (obviously)

[smoky quest]

yeah.
It's pretty fast and easy to throw something, but once it reaches multiple hundred of lines or requires performance, then there are better suited languages.
Although you can go pretty far with python

[vague nexus]

Based on my experience, I worked with Python when dealing with IT companies such as Amazon Web Services (Cloud Services), Cisco DevNet (Software Defined Networking), Odoo (ERP Software), Facebook (Social Media), etc.

[lavish warren]

would an associates degree help me find a job in this field? if so what degree??@sudden quartz

[clear swan]

lol

[velvet stone]

bonjour il y a des francais pour m apprendre le python ?

[kind coral]

!rule 4

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[velvet stone]

!rule 4

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[vapid jay]

white-hat hacking, how difficult it is to find a job with it?

[dry sapphire]

cybersecurity? super hot AFAIK

[vapid jay]

in third world countries too ?.

[modest phoenix]

if i graduate with a computer science degree

does it mean i must to go into software engineering? what other career options do i have?

[buoyant seal]

I heard COVID brought more than +50% increase in job positions for this direction

[teal trail]

You mean because of money transfers becoming digital?

[buoyant seal]

xD, I am going for the blue team

[buoyant seal]

because everyone sits at home ;b

[sudden quartz]

I still recommend finishing your bachelors but associate degrees are pretty good, if not better than a BS in some circumstances. Theyre essentially a technical degree for a field that is really technical so its a popular pathway. What associates degree would be good depends on you, Cyber Security is a popular one, and you can pick up certifications afterwards. Just remember that you will not have the freedom of the common CS degree to go wherever you want in the field, so your associates has to be specific

[kind coral]

You can be a project manager for example

[slim hemlock]

Do you prefer skill over CTC for a job?

[minor solstice]

Guys i wanted to do freelancing on Fiverr but i am afraid i going to make gig then i return i can't understand what to do my fear is what if i can't do my client work ?😭😭

[kind coral]

CTC?

[near ocean]

A CS degree (or any engineering degree) opens a whole bunch of career paths, you can go into any industry really

[vapid jay]

guys if i download wanacry inside a vm will ir effect my mainj pc?

[near ocean]

Why would you download randomware and why would you ask about it in the careers channel

[sudden quartz]

you are qualified for any job in software or analytics, with a little extra studying

and industry wise, CS can be applied in about every one. have fun and pursue what you enjoy

[modest phoenix]

thanks bruh

[dusky temple]

Is there anyone self taught here who can talk about their journey, especially if they got a job? I’d love to hear it

[dire pebble]

Anyone mind sharing their experiences with applying to a job and how many responses/interviews they got roughly?

Ive sent out ~10 applications 3 days ago (got a fresh masters degree in CS) and got 2 interview invitations already. Is that normal? Are IT guys that sought after?

I thought people were overexaggerating, as always, or maybe I got lucky?

[dusky temple]

O

[sudden quartz]

Well it depends on the positions. That doesnt sound like a large company calling you in in just 3 days. And you have a MS.

[dire pebble]

one has 100 employees and the other one 400 @sudden quartz

[summer roost]

For someone with good credentials, it's pretty normal to get interview requests from ~50% of job applications, I'd say.

[mental knoll]

Is there an equivalent of "sun certified java programmer" for python?

[sudden quartz]

if good is exemplary mabye

[dire pebble]

Oh yeah, people seem desperate for good IT it seems, makes sense in these times I suppose

[summer roost]

Some of that also comes down to how good you are at picking jobs to apply to based on the job description matching your skill set. But, if your skills are even remotely close to what the hiring manager is looking for, the only reason they would have to not interview you is if the position has already been filled, or they already have a large number of interviews scheduled and they anticipate hiring one of those people, so scheduling more interviews would be a waste.

[fluid aspen]

Hello guys. At this time, i want to start with web development..
I want to ask you, what is one of the best web development language for begginers..?
Also i want to ask if the .net core is good for my future, or also what language could by good for future?

[summer roost]

Sure, .net core is used. And it's pretty similar to Java, so you could expand towards that as well.

[balmy mural]

Computer Science students in general are pretty sought after in South Africa at least. I'm finishing my undergrad this year and was contacted by recruiters for two medium sized companies the same week that I updated my LinkedIn profile to better reflect where I am at uni, and what skills I have. Same thing for quite a few people studying with me.

[fluid aspen]

And is Java the same or similar as JavaScript? I am sorry, but i am really begginer..

[modest phoenix]

they are acc quite different

kinda like a car and carpet that's the best analogy i have lol

[fluid aspen]

oh, okay

And is better JavaScript or Java for web development?

[slim hemlock]

salary package

[sudden quartz]

JavaScript

[fluid aspen]

Okay

[sudden quartz]

Look up Human Computer Interface design

[summer roost]

They would be used in different places. Java might be used on the server side, Javascript is used on the client side (it runs in the user's browser)

[gritty rivet]

You'd have to define "better", but for web development specifically, JavaScript is more widely used, by far

In fact it's kind of must-know for any front end web development job

Java is more of a general purpose language, not web specific

[kind coral]

Sorry, I don't understand

[vapid jay]

hello guys what is cogs

[vapid jay]

javascript

[vapid jay]

hi

[vapid jay]

what would be simple python projects that i can make to fill up my resume, i dont have many CS based projects (in fact i only have 1 and im making a simple discord bot as another one) so i wish you guys drop ideas for me to work on

pls ping me for replies, tq

[lean moth]

@vapid jay saw someone with a snake AI project on their resume;D

[vapid jay]

Whats snake AI, ill google it lol thanks

[lean moth]

just a neural network that learns how to play the game "snake"

Should probably use reinforcement learning, like Q-learning or SARSA

Also kind of depends on what sort of job you are going for. If you have a specific area where you would like to work in, try a project within that subject

[vapid jay]

im just trying to get a cs internship

as a first year collg student

might make a 2d game, then maybe do ai later?

[vapid jay]

do you know web development
like html/css

[vapid jay]

nah mostly python and sql and im learning java rn

oh nice, you should try making a face recognition software

[gloomy girder]

Hi, I'm starting out in python with no real experience beyond using R for statistics, are data science jobs few and far between? what could I work as with a combination of R and Python? I'm currently looking into bioinformatics as I'm completing a major of biology at uni and R studio really caught my eye last term.

[radiant moon]

best to look at job postings to tell how common those jobs are
here in Seattle I bet there are 50 open jobs at least

in Tallahassee, probably not so many

[gloomy girder]

right ok, sadly not an American but thats a good step thank you!

[radiant moon]

Dublin or London if you're in the EU
dunno 'bout the rest of the world

[shadow moss]

Masters probably really helps. Yes, the job market is really hot right now but not as much for entry level but most people see Masters as greater then entry level, at least until you get to technical interview

[radiant moon]

that's pretty good. My job-before-the-current-one I sent out 30 applications and got one interview (happily that interview yielded an offer)

[limpid shadow]

Guys I am a freshman trying to take AP CS, and self study it. Are there any prerequisite knowledge that you need to know before taking the course? Is there any math we have to know before that? Or just any knowledge in general?

[vapid jay]

Sup I am noicetree wanna make a AI with python to do incredible things deadline 6 months starting from now. Wish me luck all.

[shadow moss]

By Freshman, do you mean US HS Freshman (I'm assuming so). If so, Algebra I and II were generally recommended. Also, while you can, I wouldn't take AP course this early in your HS career unless you think you will graduate early. Taking it Freshman year then not really doing it for 3 years won't help. Finally, talk to guidance counselor, many colleges do not allow AP for degree courses, like you cannot use AP to skip CS Major course.

[limpid shadow]

HS

[limpid shadow]

So you need to know Algebra II so I dont think I should take it yet. Also I am gonna take other classes in the coming 3 years too.

[sage pumice]

the ap cs classes don't require that much math, if any

[shadow moss]

Need? Probably not, looking at course curriculum for AP, I'm not seeing a ton of math. It's a recommendation by AP board whether or not your school follows that is on them. However, my other part still applies, many colleges won't accept AP for your major, I'm making the assumption that you will be going into Computer Science related course in University/College

[limpid shadow]

Wdym colleges wont accetp AP for your major, my brother took ap cs and he is in college and they accept it for his major

[shadow moss]

Around me, many schools don't. It's why I pointed you to guidance counselor

[limpid shadow]

Where are you from, I am from Myanmar my brother went to college in San Francisco

[shadow moss]

United States

[summer roost]

I never took an AP CS course, but I strongly suspect the answer is "no". Where Computer Science does require math, it's almost always math that is never taught in high school. There shouldn't be any high school math prerequisites that you'd need.

... And, I was scrolled way back. Oops

[gray anvil]

so I'm going to be taking over conducting interviews for diploma holders/mid career switchers, for roles looking for python practitioners.

anyone have advice on what to look out for or what kind of questions to ask?

there's already an established coding test I'll walk them through, but I can choose what to ask outside of it

some things I've got noted down based on general discussions of interview processes are

1. ask if they have a public repo and what kind of projects they've done
2. whether or not they implement pep8 (at the minimum) in their own code
   for bonus points
3. explain hash tables
4. explain generators

any suggestions?

[honest pivot]

Is knowing the details of how a hash table works something that comes up often?

I ask people a related question, but more aimed at how they might actually need to think: When should I use a list vs a set, and why?

[gray anvil]

hm, I'm just interested if they've dived into deeper aspects of python than just basic code

[buoyant seal]

5. what is decorator and ways to make it
6. how to make your own "with" "as" thing, what has it inside, and why do you need it

[gray anvil]

it's not a negative if they can't answer, and frankly none of the guys below me can, so it's really a bonus

[honest pivot]

Yeah, I have yet to interview anyone who can actually give the correct answer for list vs set

[gray anvil]

fair

[gray anvil]

HAHAHA you don't know how tilted I got when my senior was trying to imitate my code and asked me why she couldn't put lists in her set

[buoyant seal]

7. actually we can add here how to make your own iterable sequence
   this trick really decreases ripple effects in code in my opinion

[honest pivot]

When I was applying for jobs, one company asked me to describe all the basic container types, which they listed off. In the process they mentioned "arrays", which were a trick question.

[gray anvil]

ah, custom iterables is definitely well beyond the level of the candidates I'm expecting. with as there's a reasonable chance, decorators I'm also expecting blank looks

this is for junior devs and none of them are likely to have a degree in CS

[honest pivot]

I try to see if they know anything about computational complexity, too. Have asked if they know what O(n^2) means. And then if they can name any algorithm that is O(n^2).

[buoyant seal]

how to have enumeration ;b provide them a wrong code example, where it is done manually

for number, value in enumerate(mylist):
  print(f"{value} at {number}")

plus ways to format strings in python

oh btw

[gray anvil]

oh good point on string formatting. f strings good,. format bad, % = thanks for your time 💩

[buoyant seal]

oh, lets ask them

for value in mylist:
  if condition > 5:
    if condition_2 < 5
      if condition_3 > 10:
        conditinuing_writing_nesting_hell
    
    else: 
      do_thing(2)
  else:
    do_thing()

how to fix nesting hell 😉

[gray anvil]

oh god kill it with fire haha

[honest pivot]

Oof. In general the depth of questions I ask is proportional to how much they claim to know about Python. Had a guy rate himself 4/5 when he barely knew anything.

[gray anvil]

hm, it's a very brief spoken section, they usually get 45 minutes for the code test we already have, so for this round I'll ask the ones that can be answered entirely verbally:
simple big O question, string formatting, with/as, lists vs sets

ahhh and good point about bringing out the big guns if they rate themselves highly

[honest pivot]

I always start with small guns and build up, though. No point in embarrassing somebody

[gray anvil]

of course! I'll be as fair as I can, and no gotchas

[buoyant seal]

ask them the signs of a good code and bad code ;b

[gray anvil]

the really embarrassing thing is my Co-interviewer(aforementioned senior) probably couldn't answer half of these either

[buoyant seal]

types of testing ;b and libraries in python to do that, have your written the tests?

how to document python code?

[gray anvil]

mate if someone could quote me the pep for docstrings off the top of their head I'd hire them on the spot 😂 😂

[buoyant seal]

i like Sphinx so far, it creates nice website deployable documentation based on my docstrings.
minimum effort to have documentation for non python people

wishing to try more API specialized interactive documenting tools

[gray anvil]

ultimately I'm really looking for people who can demonstrate they've put effort into making their code easy for others to use

the rest I can teach

[gray anvil]

ahhh, sadly, while sphinx is cool, we can't really use stuff like that for now. even just getting python 3.8.11 approved and onto the internal authorized software portal is slow going. Big org things, one step at a time for that kind of stuff

[buoyant seal]

oh, u have third party package dependency approving process?

[gray anvil]

yes, large listed finanical institution, it takes a while to feed through

[buoyant seal]

well, at least u take security seriously I take it

[gray anvil]

I miss being a cowboy sometimes

[buoyant seal]

we have security only within the efforts of one person %
which has many other responsibilities, me.

[gray anvil]

Pepehands

[honest pivot]

A great question I use is "What's the worst code and best code you've written, and why?"

[silk hatch]

Hey guys. I've started a python course at https://www.edx.org/
and I was wondering if it was worth my money to get the full certificate to add to my resume? The cost/money isn't an issue for me. The issue is, will employers like to see that or would it be useless?

[vapid jay]

hello everyone... what do i need to study for ethical hacking? except python..

[gritty rivet]

They will care much more about your portfolio of work, so if you can learn the same content for free it's probably not worth paying

[silk hatch]

A lot of what I'd be paying for is the certificate and exams

[marsh wind]

these kind of certificates are worth little no nothing mostly. Your actual skills/porjects what would matter.

[silk hatch]

Alright. Thank you for your feedback.

[dire pebble]

So I'm getting my master in CS in 2 months and I've already started applying and got some interviews scheduled.

Now some of the big players, like google, amazon but also OEMs like VW, BMW, Mercedes have long response times or they only start looking at applications at a certain date.

What should I do? I would love to to work at the big players/OEMs from above, but I can get a competetive salary from the companies that I have interviews at, too.
They have ~500 employees so theyre neither small, nor that big.

I feel like telling them that I need 2 months of thinking time (to see if I can get into my preferred jobs) would be inadequate?

[gritty rivet]

It's not uncommon to start a job and then leave a few weeks in due to a better offer. So unless you have a really good reason to keep them waiting, take what you get.

[dire pebble]

I can imagine that this is how it works in the US, but does that also apply to Germany for example?
I guess as long as the contract allows it..
Thanks! thats actually exactly the advice I needed

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, I'm in the US, no idea about Germany to be honest

[marsh wind]

you may or may not get offer from one of those bigger names in 2+ months. So if you have a good offer now I would take it.
leaving in few weeks/months just for sake of better offer can be considered a bad tone... But normally you also have a trial period of several months during which you or company can severe your relation on a short notice.
So if you do think of taking a current offer but possibly jump of for better one, make sure you don't burn any bridges and handle communication properly