#career-advice
delicate bane
digital fjord
you could toss a coin and be happy with the outcome
urban geode
It's better to start building something and find out than dither
spark holly
you could toss a coin and be happy with the outcome
yeah. I can understand. It depends on our use case.
jolly moat
Seems like Automate the Boring Stuff would be an example of "augmenting skillset...to become more attractive". I honestly didn't have the early desire to become a full fledged programmer and still don't, too convoluted for my tastes, but I am struggling to find jobs where I can use Python without a full dev's responsibilities/job description
digital fjord
that's the fun of mature frameworks with large ecosystems
delicate bane
dither
analysis paralysis
digital fjord
they just kind of work for everything reasonably well
I have tossed a coin when choosing my tech stack for a project before
never been wrong
spark holly
never been wrong
Sounds good. I will do the same while choosing my next framework for my portfolio website.. XD
delicate bane
bc 1) it will force you to learn something youre not comfortable with or 2) you work with something you know and get better at
digital fjord
the general rule when picking something for me "if I don't know enough to at least have an idea about what would be right without researching, I am unlikely to make sense of whatever I find when researching"
spark holly
Is it considered good to make portfolio website with html and css only? I have seen many people using only them for their portfolio website.
digital fjord
ye, that's fine
the website is mostly a link hub to link to your other more impressive projects
spark holly
Yeah. Then it's good.
digital fjord
you can make it really impressive if you want to, but you don't have to
spark holly
Yeah. by adding tons of js libraries and making website load in dozens of seconds. or being creative and adding only necessary stuff
calm barn
Hey all, its Hazal. As I go through the career change questions over here, i have another one. Anyone here from different background that Bachelor's in CS, able to start a career as a programmer? I fell for AI/ML projects, but it seems like it is much more common to get a web development career if you are a self-taught programmer. Do you think so? Or otherwise is also possible? Any thoughts?
hearty island
Eh you really don’t need to know math for ds/algos
fringe meadow
Hey guys, im starting to learn python: What can i do with it?
spark holly
Eh you really don’t need to know math for ds/algos
It's both true and false. While studying time complexity of some algorithms, math was actually used to solve it.
hearty island
@spark holly still doesn’t matter you don’t need to know the math to figure out the big O of any given code
sure you may need math to figure out what big O was in the first place
but you don’t need to know math to apply it
spark holly
Hey guys, im starting to learn python: What can i do with it?
With python, you can do a lot of stuff. you can check it out here- https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1909512/what-is-python-used-for
spark holly
but you don’t need to know math to apply it
yeah not entire maths. but just only some concepts are needed to properly understand how time complexity is actually calculated in some cases.
sterile vault
@calm barn I'm bachelor in biology, and I'm getting full-time freelancing contracts. Still haven't found the niche, so they are all over the place, but usually related to automatisation.
modern walrus
Hello, Do I need some experience with HTML, CSS and JS? Can I apply without these three requirements?
PS for junior Python dev
sterile vault
AI/ML need WAY more background, in my opinion than webdev. Even basic stats can be hard. But not only CS students have good backgrounds. Hell, I've heard linguists have lots of math and probably on a fast track to learn to do ML on texts.
hearty island
there is a great book for math behind ML
they need a lot of foundational knowledge
calm barn
<@!794569142316302346> I'm bachelor in biology, and I'm getting full-time freela...
Yes exactly agree, I am from Molecular bio and genetics- have some math background as minor, had MSc on molecular oncology but after an industry experience I was hit by i am much more interested in computer lang than cell culture:)
sterile vault
Though I don't know if you can earn junior-level money without knowing it and just running pipelines you stole from Kaggle.
sterile crescent
I know some python, dart, bash scripting and web design how can i combine them(still in high school)
calm barn
Though I don't know if you can earn junior-level money without knowing it and ju...
but now im 28 and not sure about the steps- yeah exactly. I think a phd and maybe a part time on 2nd or 3rd year would help me to dig in the field
sterile vault
Anyway, some skills are useful for both DS roles and webdev, like working with databases. SQL is useful.
I suggest reaching out for local bioinformatics labs. I did that, but didn't end up going into the field (not enough domain knowledge). Bioinfo pays worse where I live, but that may not be the case for your area.
modern walrus
Hello, Do I need some experience with HTML, CSS and JS? Can I apply without these three requirements for Junior Python Developer?
sterile vault
@modern walrus Why not? Just don't go where they explicitly ask for it.
sterile crescent
I know some python, dart, bash scripting and web design how can i combine them(s...
🤔
hearty island
if they require it and you apply anyways you're basically gonna set yourself up for rejection
bc you don't have what they want
although HTML/CSS is very easy to learn
you can learn that in like a day
calm barn
I suggest reaching out for local bioinformatics labs. I did that, but didn't end...
to be honest i am not after life sciences, but i might adopt my background form diagnostics etc to a ML project in a group
sterile vault
@calm barn Well, good luck to you! Some nice portfolio projects never hurt.
calm barn
<@!794569142316302346> Well, good luck to you! Some nice portfolio projects neve...
thanks for the feedback!
modern walrus
Thank you for answers, my final decision is to learn only HTML and CSS but without JS.
sterile vault
I think there are plenty of positions where people do not need working with HTML/CSS/JS directly. For example, your role may be querying database and sending JSONs/CSVs down the line.
modern walrus
I just have bad memories with JS. That's why I don't want continue learning JS
sterile vault
If you, say, make Django websites, the situation may change, however. I've never touched that area of Python stack.
hearty island
React is a nice framework to learn with JS
it's used a lot now
you can hate JS as much as you want but it's used very frequently in web dev
sterile vault
Guys on python podcasts suggested Vue as minimalistic JS framework, since it's ligher than React. I don't do JS, so take that with a grain of salt.
dark lintel
Hi. I need to create a program that crawls website logos from csv file with URLs. I'm told to read the websites from input, although I'm given a CSV file. Any ideas? thanks
true harness
lighter means what
barebones, comes with less stuff
hearty island
oh ok
modern walrus
I'm going to learn Django and Flask, that's why I ask. IMO I don't like JavaScript part of learning webdev, because I don't like its syntax, ecosystem and its too large npm library
near ocean
if you dont know JS your chances of being a web dev go from minimal to none
fair pendant
i want to learn how to make games with python and i want to start it with making an simple game can anybody help me?
near ocean
!resources start here
inner wrenBOT
near ocean
and i'd change that nickname, zalgo was cool maybe 6 years ago
sterile vault
@hearty island Like what would you suggest to a frontender who wants to learn some backend - Flask or Django?
near ocean
Learn both, maybe start with flask
hearty island
Flask
sterile vault
I think the same logic applies for React vs Vue.
near ocean
I would say start with react, its easier to setup small single pages apps with create-react-app
shadow moss
Neither, FastAPI
near ocean
Looks like clickbait
shadow moss
I'm going to learn Django and Flask, that's why I ask. IMO I don't like JavaScri...
That's fine but that's not the way the market is going, current hotness is JS/TS SPAs with Whatever Language backend you want
near ocean
Like it or not, browsers run JS, webassembly is a long ways off, if you arent at least familiar with js youre shooting yourself in both feet
hearty island
Looks like clickbait
yeah it seems like common sense to me
near ocean
And it doesnt make sense to hate a language lmao, do you hate other tools like hammers and nails too?
hearty island
are you talking to me?
near ocean
No?
marsh wind
Neither, FastAPI
This really
near ocean
i dont think these videos are appropriate for the channel imho
hearty island
ok
gleaming sundial
vapid jay
Hi everyone
dusk notch
Hey i have learned the basics of python. Now I want to learn about django and flask. Can anyone suggest a good source from where i can start learning.
hearty island
wrong channel
true harness
wrong channel
while yes, it is the wrong channel, it wouldn't hurt to provide also the right channel
dusk notch
Thank you
hearty island
Hey i have learned the basics of python. Now I want to learn about django and fl...
this is a great series on Flask too
dusk notch
Thank you so much
hearty island
yeah np
dusk notch
I am on it😁
proven falcon
gonna start my own muffler shop
who here knows how to remove a cat in <120 seconds?
hearty island
This isnt a channel for you to shitpost
have you done any internships?
near ocean
Just one
That was years ago when i was studying EEE, i switched to CS halfway through
near ocean
Ye
true harness
why that third E though lol
hearty island
i was gonna ask that
near ocean
The official course title was Electrical and Electronic Engineering
They called it EEE, idk
true harness
ah, makes sense
hearty island
isn't electrical engineering even harder than CS
near ocean
Yea
I was a dumb kid, i liked physics i liked programming
I wanted to do something mixing both
I fucked up so bad and wasted 2 years of life
Did the internship the summer of my first year, that was 2015 and now its totally irrelevant
hearty island
so you did all those projects and things
and you kept applying to internships
and not a single company blinked?
near ocean
Its too short not to be lmao
I just recently added more buzzwords
Gonna game this mf
hearty island
are you only applying to jobs in your immediate area
near ocean
Yea but also london
hearty island
is London big or something I have no context of the size in UK
only been to London once
near ocean
Its the capital, lots of HQs there
hearty island
what roles are you applying to
near ocean
No
Right now what i need is a big established company with a mid-large team and clear hierarchy
I wanna be overseen to death
Supervised till i die
near ocean
Management not really in my plans rn
marsh wind
~~project management~~
I don't think it's something they will give you internship ever or hire full time if you have no experience tbh
hearty island
I wasn't talking about internships
I was talking about project management as a job
marsh wind
Well OK. If your bg is CS/similar and you have not worked in industry yet I doubt you'd get hired directly into management-ish position
Ymmv, but really, why hire a person to manage others if they might not yet be able to manage themselves, can't be sufficiently independent and yet team player...
near ocean
I personally dont enjoy managing people, i wanna avoid that type of role for as long as possible
hearty island
I like people
marsh wind
You can be fast tracked there (for better or worse who knows) in a small/young startup (<100) but even there you will probably start as Dev or DS
hearty island
most startups I have seen have people work really late hours and then they get burnt out
marsh wind
Not here it seems
hearty island
something about the US work life balance
it's even worse in India
you can't even discuss how much you want to be paid with an employer in India
you just take whatever they give you
marsh wind
Well I know Indians here but not those who work/worked there. So only horror story I heard was about IIT
hearty island
actually I don't think they are either
there are so many SWE people that even experienced people are doing unpaid internships
it's just a real mess
hearty island
yes
the thing is when experienced people apply for the same internships students are trying to get
it's a lose/lose situation
delicate bane
peak halo
There are a few positions open for a company that I think I'm qualified for. I've gotten rejected for positions at that company, and in retrospect I wasn't qualified for those positions anyway (they were some of the first positions I applied to--I guess I wasn't sure what I was doing). I'm wondering if applying to too many at the same place at once will look bad.
main thicket
When was the last time you applied?
peak halo
When was the last time you applied?
a few weeks ago. my credentials haven't changed, just which jobs I'm applying to
main thicket
Hm, just apply again. I don't think they'll think much.
sudden quartz
isn't electrical engineering even harder than CS
no its not
there is nothing harder than CS. no other major you need to learn extensively the technology that supports the theory and youre tested on both. the assignments are really difficult. the only reason people think EE is harder than CS is that some CS departments are
you try taking 5 programming intensive courses without extensively knowing the languages beforehand
you
will
die
main thicket
there is nothing harder than CS. no other major you need to learn extensively th...
Someone's insecure lol
I assure you EE extensively learns technology and are tested on both technology and the theory
People than EE is harder is because it's more mathy and physicsy, they cover programming alongside much harder electronics and theory stuff like signal proc, control, emag etc lol.
sudden quartz
define harder, because medschool is "hard" but its about memorizing mass amounts of information. CS is harder than EE because of the assignments you are given. I personally dont find concepts like that difficult. and EE doesnt do nearly the amount of programming a CS major does. Programming itself isnt difficult. for example CS has much harder hw that EE who I doubt even take an algorithms course normally
they call cs a self taught degree
main thicket
Have you taken an EE degree lol
sudden quartz
no
main thicket
Idk who you are to question someone who changed from EE to CS because EE was too hard, as someone who knows squatall about EE
sudden quartz
it was too hard for them, not objectively, people can switch from any stem major to another
main thicket
EEs here switch to CS all the time because EE is harder lol
Personally I think my EE subjects are harder too
A bit harder than my ME subjects, a lot harder than the CS subjects I've taken and the CS subjects my brother takes as a CS major
sudden quartz
name an easy cs subject and a hard ee subject
main thicket
Most programming subjects, intro algorithms etc vs signal processing, control theory, electromagnetism
sudden quartz
ok and name a hard cs subject
main thicket
Theory of computation is hard ish if you're not good at abstract stuff
sudden quartz
else
main thicket
Systems programming can be hard if you're new to programming too
But EEs take systems programming at most places too
main thicket
it was too hard for them, not objectively, people can switch from any stem major...
Also "Someone moving from EE to CS is not an objective measure of difficulty, but my opinion as someone who knows nothing about EE is an objective truth"
near ocean
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/srs/student-statistics
Picked a top uk uni, table S shows all depts and degree awards
For 2019-2020 there were 113 students in cs and ee, 81% of cs got a first compared to 62% of ee
main thicket
Weird measure I think. But engineering subjects are rough, non engineering majors don't really realise the amount of effort that goes into it.
sudden quartz
stats require proper understanding
main thicket
"I'm going to say CS is objectively harder, if anyone who's experienced both says EE is harder I'm gonna say that's subjective. If any stats are brought up, I'm gonna say that requires more looking into. I don't need to present any reasoning for why CS is objectively the hardest subject"
sudden quartz
EE majors claim its hard based on the "concepts" and breadth, but its not depth. Literally everyone can program. Based on just the assignments CS majors need to deal with. Covering "harder concepts" isnt a good reason for saying its a harder major. CS majors do more work and the actual practical working difficulty in things algorithms rather than "hard concepts" make CS more difficult
main thicket
EE majors go wayyy more in depth than CS majors lmao. Electronics is like a 4-5 subject stream of subjects.
near ocean
That sounds like an opinion to me boss
main thicket
And "based on the assignments CS majors need to deal with" as opposed to EE majors who don't have assignments?
sudden quartz
I know about medschool which many would say is more difficult than both
main thicket
Why do you keep bringing up medschool when we're talking about CS and EE
near ocean
Medschool isnt relevant here, youre the one that brought it up
main thicket
This is some really weird insecurity issue tbh
near ocean
I didnt say medschool is easier
sudden quartz
EE majors go wayyy more in depth than CS majors lmao. Electronics is like a 4-5 ...
literally CS is all built upon itself
hearty island
EE is hella hard
I have friends in EE and their GPA was a 3.00
that’s considered good for EE
that’s how hard it is
sudden quartz
same for cs
main thicket
EE is far more built upon itself than CS is. You can do intro programming subjects and then basically any CS subject you can do without any prerequisites bothering you.
sudden quartz
EE is far more built upon itself than CS is. You can do intro programming subjec...
false
exactly what i mean, you must be thinking of a very easy program
hearty island
🍿
main thicket
EE? Electronics: Electronics 1, 2, 3, maybe even 4, all of those are needed to do power electronics or vlsi or biomedical instrumentaiton or whatever
Emag: Intro Physics, intro emag, proper EE focused emag, photonics | microwave | RF
eg etc
main thicket
exactly what i mean, you must be thinking of a very easy program
No I'm not. You basically only need intro programming courses for almost every CS subject. OS, Algos, Compilers, etc don't have strong requirements
I'm not thinking of a "very easy program", I know more CS than most CS majors do. I know what they cover. I also have basically the entirety of an EE major
sudden quartz
difficulty = amount of prereq needed for subject
near ocean
Seems fairer than difficulty = because i said so
main thicket
brings up depth
brings up how CS is built upon itself
complains when I show how EE goes into a lot of depth for subjects and how it builds upon itself through subsequent courses
main thicket
Would anyone advise learning machine learning for freelance development
nah dont bother, if they want ML, you can throw it through AutoML services or something. It's not a job for a dev, it's a job for a proper data scientist
sudden quartz
I didnt say CS's depth is responsible for the difficulty
sudden quartz
Would anyone advise learning machine learning for freelance development
definently not, most companies cant even utilize ML effectivvely
main thicket
That's not really the point. They want to, that's why they're hiring someone.
sudden quartz
i guess
hearty island
redmagic you’re out of your depth dude
punching above your weight
whatever you wanna call it
main thicket
But as a dev, you can learn the basics of how ML works so you know what framework to build and then you can put a simple ML algo in there, either simple linear regression etc or something you get through AutoML @little reef
And then tell them I've put X thing here, you can hire someone else to replace that with a more complex model
But don't make ML a priority if you're just starting out. It's just a "nice to know" if you're already freelancing
People who do ML should have their full time job be ML because it's full of depth
hearty island
The computer engineering students I knew who had to do EE all dropped to do CS
EE is mind numbingly difficult
little reef
The computer engineering students I knew who had to do EE all dropped to do CS
whats EE
hearty island
Electrical engineering
main thicket
ElecEng, it's related to the other disscussion there
Lol yeah, very common for CEs and EEs to drop to CS. Heck, CEs have a hard time getting hardware jobs often because their EE side is weak and it requires a heck of a lot more depth to do
On the other hand, you see EEs do Software work all the time
main thicket
You're aware that EEs have projects and assignments too right?
Like, I've made absolutely massive circuits and circuitboards and spent weeks in labs working on them
sudden quartz
even non stem can do software
the jobs arent the point, EE isnt more skilled than CS
main thicket
i think you have some real insecurity issues there
sudden quartz
i would definently say circuits are easier to build than software assignments
main thicket
oh man
main thicket
said like someone who thinks circuits look like this
hearty island
isn’t that like regents physics circuits
sudden quartz
intro cs ^ literally
little reef
uuh..... i'll stick with programming XD
main thicket
intro cs ^ literally
this is nothing like intro CS
delicate bane
hearty island
@delicate bane 🍿
sudden quartz
idk what cs departments you have
hearty island
Dude Raggy is a former Microsoft intern I’m pretty sure he knows more CS than you do
just take the L
sudden quartz
what does interning at microsoft mean
hearty island
😐
hearty island
😐
main thicket
@hearty island don't bother responding, not gonna convince him
hearty island
@main thicket good idea
sudden quartz
EE circuits get a lot harder
how is this harder than logic gates
main thicket
yes, every EE learns assembly. I can write arm and avr asm, and have written a bootloader + kernel for a raspberry pi 3 in asm + Rust
sudden quartz
yes because you work embedded systems as EE
main thicket
yes, and?
sudden quartz
im pulling up exams
main thicket
okay
sudden quartz
an exam of this (not a concept applicable to studying really) vs...
near ocean
vs? How are you gonna pull up an EE exam question when you havent gone through the degree
sudden quartz
whats a basic ee course
near ocean
What part of ee is basic
main thicket
do you think the standard deviation formula and an algorithm which goes over an array a couple times is scary?
main thicket
comparing a first year intro circuits course for people who havent finished any maths prereqs to a 3rd year algorithms course is fair
also yeah i could do that in high school
sudden quartz
ok then pull one up yourself
thats algorithms btw, my 1st year course
i could do that year 1
near ocean
So what
near ocean
What part of this whole debate do you not understand is your opinion
main thicket
near ocean
Can we get back to careers pls
sudden quartz
this is on topic imo
near ocean
This has nothing to do with careers, you just have a huge chip on your shoulder
sudden quartz
this seems like i could do, its set theory and cs majors dominate discrete mathematics
graph theory / computation
main thicket
this isnt set theory or discrete maths
sudden quartz
well
main thicket
the fact that you cant even tell this is all continuous is sad
sudden quartz
so its linear algebra
main thicket
it's actually linear algebra + differential equations + signal theory
you don't even know what you're looking at, bro
sudden quartz
lol
which part is signal theory because i really do udnerstand the math and the currents
main thicket
you dont even know enough to know what you know
main thicket
come to #offtopic
delicate bane
hearty island
@delicate bane it’s going down in #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare
delicate bane
i think im good
anyway
i need to redo my resume
i keep saying that but i never have time
fringe meadow
Hey guys! Once I learn Python, what can i do with it job-wise? I started python with my school and im probably going to continue with it to. But what can i do with it because im kinda confused?
main thicket
@fringe meadow good at making website backend (the logic side), data analysis, scientific computing and machine learning, making scripts to automate work, "glue" code that connects other software things
Then you can also make games, desktop applications etc but it's not the best language for it
sterile vault
Oh boy what a shitshow it was.
And yeah, basically what Raggy says. Also, lots of autotesting jobs require Python.
maiden solar
oh no Im late
hazy nexus
Hey guys! I'm senior in javascript, and want to "migrate" from js to Python (actually I've already got a job in a big company)... Someones knows a very good course / youtube channel / ebook / anything that explains pythons syntax, behavior and syntax sugars?
It could be free or paid
lucid vapor
Hey guys! I'm senior in javascript, and want to "migrate" from js to Python (act...
I suggest you know both. Then you'll be able to do front and back end stuff.
Are you looking for basic python or more advanced?
hazy nexus
Thanks! I'm looking for more advanced courses/ learning material
I'm traying to understand the subtleties of the language (Like promises or event loop in JS)
glacial arrow
any youtube channels you'd recommend to learn python (not totally depend on it)
hearty island
I like Corey Schafer
true harness
he's good
near ocean
He stopped posting :^(
hazy nexus
@true harness This one?
signal goblet
lol
true harness
yeah, but that looks a bit overpriced
hearty island
Schafer stopped posting??
molten terrace
im looking for algorithms and methods for detection the anomaly in vibration track. there is a machine and i set the sensor which senses the temperature and vibration, im looking for the machine learning algorithm to detect it. is there anyone for advice?
peak halo
I got a request for a phone interview in response to an application I put in. I have a midterm on Wednesday--if I tell them I can talk on Thursday (and not necessarily mention the midterm), is that too far into the future, or is that fine? (I'm interested to hear from those who make hiring decisions or who have relevant experience and not speculation.)
yes
thanks!
reef violet
If I can't solve leetcode medium problems, am I just not fit to be a software engineer?
digital fjord
those are in part about just knowing all the various algorithms and data structures more so than about being smart
keep in mind that even if it considered basics, most data structures were revolutionary papers back in the day
reef violet
Honestly I'm so incredibly frustrated; I'm a mechanical engineer trying to effect a career change and I'm really trying but I'm just not able to solve them
I completed a course in data structures
Even when I know how to solve the problem I don't get the implementation right and certainly not in any interview-length time frame
digital fjord
consider just writing python for a bit, make some interesting things with the language
hearty island
I know people who failed their technical interview
digital fjord
more practice with the language could help you with quickly implementing things
hearty island
but they still got through bc they showed a nice thought process
you have to like hold your interviewer's hand
near ocean
I would consider building something practical too
A popular project is algo/ds visualisation, maybe try your hand at that
reef violet
I'm writing an iOS app in swift in the interest of being language agnostic
hearty island
that is cool
reef violet
But I feel like my mind just doesn't grok the algorithm/ds questions
hearty island
But I feel like my mind just doesn't grok the algorithm/ds questions
this probably won't help you solve algos/DS questions quickly but you might want to read Grokking algorithms
it explains data structures/algos with like real life examples
reef violet
When I was taking the DS course I felt like I understood everything pretty well conceptually
do you guys actually use ds&a in your daily jobs?
hearty island
people are gonna disagree with me but understanding something conceptually and implementing it are two completely different things
you could have someone explain the concept of a dictionary
with no code
I don't think you can actually implement it without looking at the code
Ok. if someone told you that a dictionary is just keys and values and you can access a value with a key do you automatically know how to code it?
you'd be surprised
idk I didn't go to the best college for CS
but the students struggled with a project with just lists and dictionaries
they were all people who just started coding
reef violet
I feel like I could implement a dictionary pretty easily; a class with two lists, one for keys and one for vals, and when the user calls the dict the class searches the keys list, gets the index of the right key, and then uses it to return the val
It would be slow as heck but it would work
hearty island
you can understand the concept of a backflip
but the implementation is what people struggle with
reef violet
whats a backflip?
hearty island
talk is cheap implementing something v talking about the concept is completely different
a singly linked list has a head node and a tail node. It has references between each node so you can traverse through them with .next.
.head is the head of the linked list
like that doesn't help me code it I could sit here explaining the same thing and nothing would happen
near ocean
These are all basic DS, if youre struggling with them youre probably struggling with the language youre using and not the concept
Imo you should get to the point where youre comfortable enough with python that anything you can understand you can implement
nimble gate
what kind of jobs do people get with coding?
hearty island
SWE, DS/ML, web dev, cybersecurity, devops
network engineer
all sorts of stuff
nimble gate
game dev?
hearty island
yeah game dev too
nimble gate
how hard is game dev?
nimble gate
huh?
hearty island
I heard from my friend doing game dev that it's important
nimble gate
for game-dev
hearty island
also I've heard some interesting things about game-dev
nimble gate
like?
hearty island
like their crunch days are insane
like they really underpay people
and they overwork them so hard they burn out
but that's a problem all over the tech industry
vapid jay
is there any tips on how can i learn programming im so new to this stuff 😖
fossil ruin
is there any tips on how can i learn programming im so new to this stuff 😖
Google, also wrong channel
!resources
inner wrenBOT
cobalt acorn
Anyone here transition from a IT related role into software? I went from IT business analyst to intermediate DevOps. I'm starting to realize that if I want to transition into SRE / backend engineering, I really need to up my understanding of basic things such as Data structures, Algos, OOP. A lot of my beginner knowledge of things such as reverse linked lists, hash tables, binary trees etc. is non-existant. I'm just confused on where to start, maybe just starting off a CS101 and working my way up from there. I can code in Python, integrate functions into our microservice backend etc., work with Cloud APIs....outside of that if I were to focus on real swe work, i'd be lost. I'm starting to become a bit afraid that my lack of SWE knowledge is going to limit my future potential. I'll have to then make a decision of Solution Architect vs. DevOps/Backend engineering.
hearty island
do you want possible resources you can use to learn algos/DS?
or do you want advice bc I don't know about IT stuff
cobalt acorn
I don't know where to start. My algos/DS is beginner / non existent. That would probably be a good place to start I think
hearty island
hmmmm
gleaming hill
i am 13 year old i like python and programming what can i learn in future?
hearty island
I don't know where to start. My algos/DS is beginner / non existent. That would ...
try Grokking algorithms
it has some very good explanations with real life situations
it does skimp on implementation tho
cobalt acorn
Ty ill try there first, appreciate it
iron junco
I used that Grokking to get my head around basic stuff. Was really helpful.
cobalt acorn
Thats good to know, that's where my major gap is
hearty island
CLRS is a very heavy DS/algos book
it depends on your textbook reading skills
Udacity ds/algos course is completely free
but it's in Python 2.7
iron junco
@cobalt acorn you don't need to know algos to get a software engineer job though.
hearty island
hmmmm
hmmmm
really?
most interviews are going to ask you to whiteboard ds/algos questions nowadays
iron junco
maybe the top tier companies
hearty island
literally every SWE company wants to be like FAANG
they're gonna ask those questions
even startups are asking those questions
nimble gate
like their crunch days are insane
Ik I should have asked this before but should I quit game-dev?
like that sounds horrrible
so much work
so little pay
iron junco
literally every SWE company wants to be like FAANG
are you classing software engineer as something different to a backend engineer?
hearty island
what I said about game dev is applicable to literally any role
iron junco
Like a regular backend dev using django/python?
hearty island
he asked about SWE
so I'm talking about swe
he can try it your way too and not do ds/algos but if they ask him on an interview and he doesn't know it
iron junco
how many interviews have you passed?
hearty island
I'm not saying ds/algos is the best benchmark
but it's what they're using
I passed 2 but I couldn't pass like 10 of them bc they were all ds/algo questions
it's one of the easiest ways they can test your thought process
jolly furnace
i mean dsa are quite common but not exactly guarenteed to occur
hearty island
another way is to give you a bug and ask you to fix it but that would require them showing you a codebase when you don't even work for them
jolly furnace
sometimes they ask u stuff about quirks with a language
hearty island
I think there are better ways to test than ds/algos
jolly furnace
i mean not all of them test dsa
hearty island
startups do, mid range companies do, and ofc FAANG does
maybe a small number don't
jolly furnace
it usually depends on interview length
if its only 30 min there isnt gonna be coding
hearty island
but how are you even supposed to know? like should you be asking the recruiter if there's a technical interview?
a lot of companies like doing phone screens with an initial hackerrank test to see if you're suitable
jolly furnace
30 min isnt usually long enough to go though the non technical stuff and give enough time to write some code
yeah OAs do have coding
but not all of them are dsa
ive done some that were making some simple react application and writing some sql query
hearty island
I still would not recommend you just skip ds/algos
what are you gonna do if your boss asks you to implement a data structure that isn't a list or a dictionary?
learning a data structure on the job is going to take you more time than going oh yeah I know that and writing down the code
jolly furnace
i mean most problems are just knowing which one to use
but not really reimplementing the structure
hearty island
I still think ds/algos is not something to be skimped on
obviously it doesn't matter what I think
it's OP's career
mortal wedge
DS/Algos are not to be skimped on
Every company will test your knowledge before hiring you and most companies will use your DS/Algo knowledge to do so.
Even if it was only something like half the companies, you'd still be massively hindering yourself by not learning it.
This is of course aside from it being helpful in many roles.
hearty island
exactly
iron junco
I guess it depends what type of job you are going for.
If you are going for a backend job using Django then you probably wasting your time learning algos
It would be better to show you can use the framework.
shadow moss
This is of course aside from it being helpful in many roles.
It's not helpful in many roles
hearty island
does a solutions architect require DS/algos?
shadow moss
it's just one of those things where Google does it, and everyone else is like "WE WANT TO BE LIKE GOOGLE"
mortal wedge
Whether or not it's handy to know could be argued. But yeah, you should definitely know it if you're a job seeker
hearty island
it's not something you can skip
shadow moss
Anyone here transition from a IT related role into software? I went from IT busi...
SREs really really shouldn't be tested around Algos unless it's Google SRE role, most places, SREs are a mix Sysadmin with programming
mortal wedge
I think people should know the fundamentals before going into more advanced stuff, personally.
hearty island
I don't know how you do cloud engineering without knowing ds/algos
not that it requires ds/algos
shadow moss
I don't know how you do cloud engineering without knowing ds/algos
Say what? Cloud Engineering is picking right product for your use case
mortal wedge
The reason dsa isn't tested at higher levels is because the knowledge is assumed
hearty island
companies likely expect you to know dsa
mortal wedge
Regardless, it vastly improves your chances of getting a job
So even if it had no other intrinsic value, still worth learning
iron junco
i don't think it vastly improves your chances for most software development jobs
digital fjord
at the same time, it is not more important than actually being a competent programmer with a solid portfolio
mortal wedge
Both are important
There are different hurdles you need to overcome to get a job, the technical interview is one of them.
Being a competent programmer is also quite useful in holding a job, though 🙂
and the technical interview is generally centered around dsa
At least in the US, maybe it's different in other countries
shadow moss
Yes, for SWE, DS/Algos are unfortunately tested on, however, SREs != SWE and thus shouldn't be tested on DS/Algos
mortal wedge
Which is an extremely fair argument, but honestly you're likely to be tested on it anyway even if it's not relevant
hearty island
here's a website from a SRE that recommends they know their ds/algos
there may be companies that don't do this but there's exceptions to every rule in the book
shadow moss
If you are a company that pretend Google SRE model, make sure they are actually following it
hearty island
there are companies that care if you have a degree and there are companies that don't really care
shadow moss
Google SRE model is my biggest rage as SRE, few companies are at the point of Google SRE level
and Google talking about their SREs pisses me off, Yes, you made it, few companies have, stop publishing shit that applies to 1% of companies
hearty island
unfortunately every company thinks Google is the best thing since sliced bread
mortal wedge
lol
hearty island
even startups do these ds/algos questions bc they want to be like Google
5 of the startups I applied to asked me ds/algos questions
but at the time I didn't even know ds/algos
I still don't tbh
but I'm working on it
mortal wedge
There were maybe 3 companies out of around 50 I interviewed with that didn't do a dsa interview
for at least one of the rounds
shadow moss
How hard is it send stuff off to Modmail?
hearty island
How hard is it send stuff off to Modmail?
true
mortal wedge
Hard if you have DMs blocked from the server 😦
shadow moss
you can temp unblock for DM
mortal wedge
Yeah, that's effort though
timber tide
Agree, also this should probably be in #community-meta
hearty island
I sent them a DM
shadow moss
No, Mod stuff goes to ModMail, it's not hard
Anyways, Sure, SWE get more DS/Algos but SREs really shouldn't
since it's more Ops in many companies
mortal wedge
Out of curiosity, has anybody here ever put that they were a mod on their resume? 😄
timber tide
Out of curiosity, has anybody here ever put that they were a mod on their resume...
Seems a bit cringe, but being a community manager of a server of this side probably has benefits and might be worth it.
mortal wedge
Maybe it's worth putting down if it's relevant to your role. Like you're applying for a community manager position and you were a mod for blizzard or something
But I think Blizzard just had their staff rotate mod duties
hearty island
even roblox asked me a ds/algos question
mortal wedge
And everyone hated it
Except for the people who siphoned gear to their mains, then they got fired
hearty island
literally every company is obsessed w ds/algos questions
timber tide
even roblox asked me a ds/algos question
Yeah interviewers love to ask them because they were asked them when they were interviewed, it's a bad cycle.
timber tide
You can learn a lot about someone's capabilities by just talking to them for 5 minutes and seeing what they know.
hearty island
honestly god knows why or how I even got those interviews
I don't know what they saw that was so interesting
near dust
Hey guys not sure if this is the right place to ask but, I'm pursuing a BA in software development is it worth it to obtain a minor in mathematics or computer science? I'm asking because I would like to pursue a masters in machine learning and jobwise do either of those minors matter much? I'm more of an autodidact but not sure it would be better to have that kind of stuff on paper or just spend time learning it without paying for the minors.
timber tide
Hey guys not sure if this is the right place to ask but, I'm pursuing a BA in so...
Can't hurt surely, that seems like a worthy thing to minor in if you're interested in going into that field.
hearty island
never heard of the word autodidact
that's cool
also literally everyone in coding is an autodidact
near dust
Can't hurt surely, that seems like a worthy thing to minor in if you're interest...
Thanks
near dust
~~also literally everyone in coding is an autodidact~~
I suppose, I guess what I'm driving at is some people need structure to learn certain things and some can learn stuff with minimal or no external structure
timber tide
I suppose, I guess what I'm driving at is some people need structure to learn ce...
I find math to be hard to self-teach at least for myself since it's quite intangible.
hearty island
textbooks only come with math solutions but no real explanations
timber tide
I don't think I could have made it through real analysis or modern algebra without my teachers & TAs.
near dust
I find math to be hard to self-teach at least for myself since it's quite intang...
yeah, I've found that I can learn it on my own but I struggle in how I should organize my learning, (i.e. when should you learn discrete mathematics or graph theory vs say calculus) my problem is I find the pace of math classes to be too fast. I like to really work on the topic until I can teach it and with most classes I feel like I'm moving on before I really understand it.
digital fjord
math really is much easier when you can just have someone explain it to you in 10 different ways for an hour.
near dust
~~textbooks only come with math solutions but no real explanations~~
definitely
timber tide
math really is much easier when you can just have someone explain it to you in 1...
Yeah, this is a really good point.
near dust
math really is much easier when you can just have someone explain it to you in 1...
totally agree
hearty island
I stay on this server to get things explained to me 10 different ways
ofc doing my own work to understand stuff
digital fjord
ye, that is the really the main merit of this server over just googling things
you can ask elaborating questions
neon moat
youtube is the real hero
delicate bane
you can ask elaborating questions
or a different variant of the question
also
in the states, if youre in a masters program, is it better to do 1 internship and graduate early or graduate later but do 2 internships?
neon moat
depends on the quality and the benefit of your internship surely? plus your situation
how anyone here even begin to answer that?
delicate bane
not looking for a correct answer just hearing opinions
digital fjord
my general view on schooling is learn as much as possible if you can afford it
if you can graduate later, I would say do so simply because more knowledge you will not have as much time to learn later
but I am not an expert by any means
neon moat
never have time to learn again?
so school is only time people have time to learn? or have i misread your statement?
graceful shuttle
even startups do these ds/algos questions bc they want to be like Google
Ha, some of these companies are ridiculous. Saw a job posting on Indeed yesterday that said, "Either BS or MS in CS from a top university and program required." This was for some random company I'd never heard of nor could find much information about. Not even Amazon puts that kind of thing in their job postings.
digital fjord
when you are working, you may not have time or energy to want to learn more things
the statement may have been too extreme, I admit
neon moat
learning is a lifelong task, school is just the absolute beginning for most people just to get into the workforce
neon moat
Ha, some of these companies are ridiculous. Saw a job posting on Indeed yesterda...
why let that bother you?
graceful shuttle
Hey guys not sure if this is the right place to ask but, I'm pursuing a BA in so...
Learn math if you can. It makes certain aspects of the job easier if you can think about things without having to put it in code
graceful shuttle
why let that bother you?
It doesn't bother me. It's just humorous. This random company has extremely high standards, and from my perspective they're unwarranted
neon moat
It doesn't bother me. It's just humorous. This random company has extremely high...
true, but best just to move past them
graceful shuttle
true, but best just to move past them
I did move past them, that's why their posting is in my browser history 😜
manic hornet
what looks good on resume - built Small Project or good in data str and algo?
hearty island
Ha, some of these companies are ridiculous. Saw a job posting on Indeed yesterda...
dude even internships are doing that
nova parcel
So I'm really just not doing that much, more of a hobby. I'm really just experimenting with GANs and neural networks in general. Really fascinating!
neon moat
what looks good on resume - built Small Project or good in data str and algo?
both
completely depends on what you're interviewing for, which company etc
and where you're located
manic hornet
the thing is i'm more intrested in small projects but not in math , ds, algo
it seems to be more practical
hearty island
you're right
but a lot of companies like ds/algos interviews
bc everyone wants to be Google
near dust
Learn math if you can. It makes certain aspects of the job easier if you can thi...
thanks
vapid jay
.help
graceful shuttle
the thing is i'm more intrested in small projects but not in math , ds, algo
You're going to struggle then in some places. In some ways, it's easy to plug things together. But there are aspects to programming where you need to understand the fundamentals
neon moat
what are the fundamentals?
graceful shuttle
Data structures and algorithms, Boolean algebra, etc
neon moat
well i highly disagree
graceful shuttle
Why?
neon moat
considering im a paid SWE
graceful shuttle
As am I
manic hornet
let the war begin
graceful shuttle
That's an argument from authority btw
neon moat
it completely depends on what area you are looking to get into
graceful shuttle
That's a logical fallacy haha
neon moat
plus a load of other aspects
hearty island
oh boy we just had an argument about this if you scroll up
graceful shuttle
it completely depends on what area you are looking to get into
Ok, I agree on that point. It does depend
neon moat
you dont have to have a good understanding of ds and algos to be a good web developer for example
but i agree that its a good base to start from
nova parcel
Ye
manic hornet
i wnt to keep my options open
graceful shuttle
I mean if all you want to do is plug stuff other people made together, then go for it
hearty island
idk my friend was studying to become a web dev and even he had to ds/algos questions
he gets paid the same as SWE people and all he does is HTML
graceful shuttle
Learning things like DS and algos is going to open more doors for you because those concepts transcend a particular programming language, framework, library, etc
neon moat
majority of jobs are people writing business logic for companies, theres nothing wrong with being a good web dev and just knowing js/react for example
neon moat
Learning things like DS and algos is going to open more doors for you because th...
i think thats an opinion and not fact
neon moat
im on about opening doors
ds and algos can act as base for learning, and thats fine, but acting likes its the holy grail is amusing
graceful shuttle
I mean yeah, it's my opinion that it opens doors because that has been my experience and it's absolutely the logical conclusion of learning something which doesn't lock you into a particular toolset
graceful shuttle
ds and algos can act as base for learning, and thats fine, but acting likes its ...
Haha, talk about hyperbole
manic hornet
ive seen most part of ds and algo is handled by std lib then why to implement urself?
delicate bane
when you are working, you may not have time or energy to want to learn more thin...
you said the same thing the internships' dept head said. ofc you can learn outside of school but many times there isnt as much time to go in-depth
hearty island
ive seen most part of ds and algo is handled by std lib then why to implement ur...
you really think an interviewer is going to let you import a whole library during a technical interview?
digital fjord
ye, I got that from a uni study advisor
graceful shuttle
ds and algos can act as base for learning, and thats fine, but acting likes its ...
There are plenty of people who get by just fine only knowing the language or framework they work in, I'm not disputing that
neon moat
i think you have misread where im coming from
they are a good base to work from, absolutely, but they are not the only path to being a good SWE
graceful shuttle
they are a good base to work from, absolutely, but they are not the only path to...
I can agree with you on that
Well, not can, I do agree with you on that
hearty island
did your technical interview have you do ds/algos?
manic hornet
you really think an interviewer is going to let you import a whole library durin...
idk do they ?
hearty island
idk do they ?
nope
neon moat
did your technical interview have you do ds/algos?
im in UK, over 20 interviews, not a single DS or algo question
mostly system design, understanding of a language and understanding of http
hearty island
maybe it's diff in the UK
neon moat
maybe it's diff in the UK
most likely
hearty island
even startups in the US asked me ds/algos questions
mortal wedge
I can only speak to the US here, but we love our DSA
neon moat
which is why i said it depends on a lot of things, theres no one size fits all
mortal wedge
DSA! DSA!
hearty island
something something every company wants to be FAANG
graceful shuttle
I personally think the DS and algo questions being part of an interview is not an effective way to determine if someone can do well in an applied position
hearty island
not knowing that FAANG has tons of qualified applicants
and it's a way to trim them down
it's like the ivies have so many students with 4.0s
manic hornet
the interviewer dont care about how print() works so why not for std lib algo?
neon moat
I personally think the DS and algo questions being part of an interview is not a...
when you have 200 applicants for 2 jobs how else do you pre-screen people? its difficult
hearty island
the interviewer dont care about how print() works so why not for std lib algo?
bc they want to see you do it from your own knowledge
mortal wedge
I personally think the DS and algo questions being part of an interview is not a...
That's a fair point many agree with, but that's the culture here in the U.S.
hearty island
there's a 3rd party linked list module
should you use it for interviews?
ofc not
graceful shuttle
when you have 200 applicants for 2 jobs how else do you pre-screen people? its d...
That's true. Interviewing more candidates than there are interviewers complicate things. I don't really have a solution for that
neon moat
That's true. Interviewing more candidates than there are interviewers complicate...
i think its a more complex issue than just attacking each other on discord
graceful shuttle
i think its a more complex issue than just attacking each other on discord
Agreed
neon moat
i think one of the many issues is how people associate regurgitating algorithms and associating that with intelligence and ability to solve real world problems
manic hornet
does company uses std lib or implement themselves (no limit on space and time)
ds and algo
graceful shuttle
I've seen it both ways. Had an interview once where no libraries were allowed. Others have been fine with that
Standard libraries I mean, not third-party ones
hearty island
none of my interviewers let me
neon moat
Standard libraries I mean, not third-party ones
thats just moronic
graceful shuttle
thats just moronic
What aspect is moronic?
neon moat
What aspect is moronic?
not letting you use python std libraries
graceful shuttle
Oh ok
Well, not all of my interviews have been for jobs where the primary language is Python. In that instance, it was for a Java role
The example was reversing a String. There's a class with a method that does that
They didn't want that though . . . I thought that was funny, but it's their interview so . . .
neon moat
🤣
neon moat
want the easiest way?
graceful shuttle
Sure, lets hear it
mortal wedge
Just pull out a hand mirror, boom
hearty island
is hi[-1] = h?
neon moat
but in all serious, how does reversing a string equate to something like creating a RESTful api for business needs? reversing a string is a quick google
hearty island
I never saw negative indexes
neon moat
is hi[-1] = h?
that would return the last character
graceful shuttle
but in all serious, how does reversing a string equate to something like creatin...
lmao, it doesn't. It's just there to weed out "weak" candidates. Read that however you will
hearty island
oh
mortal wedge
There's three basic aspects to starting a career. Getting an interview, nailing an interview, keeping your job. The skills you need to accomplish these don't necessarily overlap.
hearty island
I just never used neg. indexes before
graceful shuttle
It could just show lack of creativity from the interviewer
mortal wedge
Honestly the interviewer probably has a billion things to do, doesn't want to do this, and just googled "interview questions"
neon moat
There's three basic aspects to starting a career. Getting an interview, nailing...
💯
i must see their ability to bring cookies into the office to share
mortal wedge
I prioritize relevant experience over having a phd
that being said, would rather have someone have a phd than not if their only experience is in academia
neon moat
and cookies?
mortal wedge
I'm also probably subconsciously biased by stupid things like an ugly resume with grammar/spelling mistakes
graceful shuttle
It's going to depend on the role? Like if the company is trying to do something no one else has done before, and your research is relevant
neon moat
im confused as to how academia translates into being able to solve business problems, but thats just me
graceful shuttle
Disclaimer: I've not been given influence on hiring decisions
neon moat
code is just a tool
school doesnt teach you to solve problems, it teaches you to memorise certain things to pass a test
life is not like that
mortal wedge
im confused as to how academia translates into being able to solve business prob...
Someone would move on to the next steps if their experience in academia was a perfect match for the position but they were new to the industry
At least, they did at my company
graceful shuttle
Again, I really think it depends on what the job actually involves. If the company is doing something that's never been done before, and there's a PhD candidate who's research is in that field, they're going to want that person
neon moat
Someone would move on to the next steps if their experience in academia was a pe...
true
graceful shuttle
Because that candidate will actually know what the hell is going on
mortal wedge
You can just coursera stuff now
People understand, especially in the present climate
hearty island
if i could turn back 10years i would do a comp-sci degree
what year was your job interview for the SWE position?
neon moat
what year was your job interview for the SWE position?
2019
neon moat
You can just coursera stuff now
dont worry im continually learning hah , but thanks im employed doing this 👍
hearty island
not too far back
mortal wedge
Haha very nice. I'm employed but in my perfect life I would coursera stuff at night
graceful shuttle
but not doing it now 😹
I think it's definitely a rare situation where academia is favored over practical experience. It's risky to dive into unexplored areas, and I think most businesses want to maximize profit over risk
mortal wedge
Although the more I work/study the less happy my fiancee is
neon moat
Although the more I work/study the less happy my fiancee is
but income is higher 🤣
mortal wedge
Yeah, I tell her that but that doesn't make her less mad, lol
neon moat
Yeah, I tell her that but that doesn't make her less mad, lol
dont worry, you're not the only one in that boat 😂
main thicket
- no, but I understand the hiring process well
- yes, a PhD isn't a requirement just a ad-hoc expectation
- enough experience and visible comfort with ML that's better than just doing MOOCs. Being able to comfortably talk about the maths and modelling and feature engineering, not just repeating what little you learn in Ng's course or Fastai
mortal wedge
Glad to hear it. So envious of my boss. His wife doesn't care when he overworks
neon moat
I think it's definitely a rare situation where academia is favored over practica...
i can understand why companies want academia proof, less riskier than taking someone without a piece of paper in comp sci
mortal wedge
It's just that they get SO many applicants that they are almost desperately seeking for ways to eliminate resumes
So endeavor to not give them a reason to discard yours
graceful shuttle
i can understand why companies want academia proof, less riskier than taking som...
It seems to be more a gatekeeping requirement than a hard requirement. There's plenty of cases where companies put that there but will hire someone without the credential if they're qualified
graceful shuttle
It's just that they get SO many applicants that they are almost desperately seek...
Yep, they need some sort of definable attribute they can use to filter
neon moat
It seems to be more a gatekeeping requirement than a hard requirement. There's p...
job advert requirements always ask too much, no one ever fills all of the requirements
mortal wedge
There's also a big difference between just applying to a position versus having someone you know at the company put your resume on the right person's desk.
This is why people network
graceful shuttle
I mean it makes sense, I've heard of some developer positions receiving thousands of applications
neon moat
once you have experience on your cv getting an interview is easy
graceful shuttle
Not saying that it's right, just that I can see the logic
mortal wedge
Yeah, in the thousands easily
neon moat
the first job is the hardest
mortal wedge
The first job is a total bitch
"What experience do you have? None? Not hiring you."
neon moat
😂
gray inlet
How hard is it to shift from qa to dev role ?
hearty island
by doing it
delicate bane
marsh wind
How hard is it to shift from qa to dev role ?
I think a big question there is, what kind of qa
there are some qa that are well, qa-ing by writing automated tests an such
means they usually do have a solid ground already
graceful shuttle
Then there's QA where you're just clicking through an app
And writing down the results
Which would be tougher to transfer out of I think
crude crown
so, I'm on the way to leave my job and I'll be having an exit interview (first time in my career so far lol) and it seems unanimous that you should talk some fakery on how you're grateful for the opportunity yada yada yada. I'm wondering if someone here was actually honest on these interviews
neon moat
so, I'm on the way to leave my job and I'll be having an exit interview (first t...
dont burn bridges, be polite and grateful
its a load of waffle but just be polite and move on graciously
crude crown
sure, I'm just asking about someone who didn't follow that script and was wondering how that worked out for them.
main thicket
The exit interview isn't for you to repeat nicities lol
They want to hear your overall experience, whether you want to come back and how they can improve
Be polite but say stuff of substance
Not just "oh I appreciated the opportunity tnx"
"I enjoyed my time here. I did X stuff which is cool since I hadn't done it before. Unfortunately I spent a lot of time stuck on Y and thought Z was a bit hard to do."
General feedback and catchup on if you want to come back and stuff
Psst, if they do ask and you don't want to come back, you can tell them you need some time to think it over etc.
And then later say it doesn't match your career goals
ocean ledge
it sounds like you want an excuse to shit on their desks or something
main thicket
The last bit is, but if you gave only nicities and no substantial feedback specific to your case, they'll ask about it specifically. Don't want you being caught off guard
ocean ledge
you can do whatever you want, i presume you have your freedoms
just do what you want-- what is the worst they can do? withhold your severance? burn a bridge?
this assumes you actually care about the bridge being burned
in all reality, the best advice if it's not a good breakup is "get over it"
crude crown
Well, I've got a laundry list with these fuckers but agreed, it's best to just move on and get over it.
rigid locust
i am confussed
i am dont know what i should go into more
i like coding but i also like making/repairing cars,trucks etc
primal sandal
I started coding a month ago, and now I have learnt almost all the basics... From where should I continue learning python? I don't find YouTube videos very helpful....
hearty island
there are a couple of advanced python books out there
but making projects is good
I saw some guy say on tik tok that if you want a SWE internship as a non CS student
your chances are minimal
that was very comforting
fallen creek
I started coding a month ago, and now I have learnt almost all the basics... Fro...
create a discord bot
or a website
main thicket
i like coding but i also like making/repairing cars,trucks etc
Whatever you feel like you like more. Or do both
main thicket
Are you looking to do a degree? Or do fixing cars as a job?
main thicket
Then do both as a hobby, what's stopping ya
main thicket
In cars? or code?
main thicket
Lots of googling and talking on forums and youtube videos helps with cars. For python here's your resources http://progdisc.club/resources/#python
rigid locust
ok
delicate bane
Then there's QA where you're just clicking through an app
QA testers use software like Jenkins right?
vapid jay
Question: If I have a university degree how much impact will it give to the employer compared to a programmer without one?
hearty island
you'll win over the programmer with none
unless the programmer with none is better than you
hearty island
hard to say tbh
delicate bane
thats a loaded question
some self taught programmers can be good. they can also be very bad
hearty island
both programmers are self taught either way
you're self teaching in college too
idk about your experience in college so far
but my professors did not give two shits
vapid jay
well I'll be entering it in 3 years
delicate bane
yeah but at least with college, youre told info that you wouldnt think of even googling
while self taught you dont know what you dont know
you might have a big deficit in one area or you might not
who knows
vapid jay
Alright.
delicate bane
np. you still have time
so keep getting opinions. maybe the job market is dif where you live too
vapid jay
Will do.
tawny crescent
I'm not sure if this is career related but does anyone know a good online course to take? A bit above beginner,
hearty island
In python?
tawny crescent
Just any will do
tawny crescent
I just want to build on my knowledge, so I can branch out later on without any problems
Any suggestions?
tawny crescent
So I have recently finished CS50 and am thinking of pursuing either CS50's Web Programming with Python and JavaScript or CS50's Introduction to Game Development
What is your advice?
Thanks for the help
hearty island
@near ocean I don’t think so
you have to be extraordinarily good at coding if you’re just gonna get into a big company without a CS degree
true harness
not necessarily
true harness
not extraordinary doesn't mean average
near ocean
Surely google wont turn away an engineer if they apply but why wouldnt they turn away someone without even a degree
true harness
google can do whatever they want, they're google
near ocean
Im talking about the rule, if people think theyre thw exception they got other issues
hearty island
do all FAANG companies do this whole it doesn’t matter if you didn’t go to college thing
genuine question
I don’t really know
main thicket
Surely google wont turn away an engineer if they apply but why wouldnt they turn...
Because Google doesn't care whether you have a degree, they care whether you can code
hearty island
is google the only FAANG company that does that?
main thicket
If there's evidence you can code well enough to match someone with a degree, it literally doesn't matter
No
Basically every FAANG will hire people without degrees
hearty island
I watched this video and this guy was like oh yeah if you don’t have a degree in CS the chances of you getting a coding internship is minimal
that hurt tbh
near ocean
How would they know theres some evidence, that means they gotta bother to check github or whatever site or product i link
main thicket
Prior work usually
main thicket
I watched this video and this guy was like oh yeah if you don’t have a degree in...
Absolutely not true
hearty island
@main thicket thanks I thought so
I don’t get why people put out such negative content like that
main thicket
The chances of you getting an internship are proportional to what evidence you can show of your skills
near ocean
I thought this was within the context of a first job
main thicket
I don’t get why people put out such negative content like that
most people like to believe others cant do what they are trained to do
near ocean
My b then
hearty island
I don’t really know about a first job bc I’ve only had internships
main thicket
I thought this was within the context of a first job
In the context of a first job, yeah you basically no chance at google
without a degree
But you have a chance at other smaller companies
And google uses your experience there as an adhoc for education
near ocean
Yea that makes sense i guess
main thicket
Yep
hearty island
oh cool
hard wharf
what are some good-paying software engineering jobs?
main thicket
most of them are well paying
at that point, the company matters more than what you're doing
a phd data scientist at Never-Heard-Of-Em Inc is going to be paid less than the dumbest of the webdevs at Google
hearty island
@main thicket were you always on call as an intern for Microsoft
or no bc you were an intern
main thicket
nah, was intern
never on call
on call is only for full time and also they're on rotation so the same people aren't always on call
graceful shuttle
QA testers use software like Jenkins right?
Yeah, an automated QA system could be triggered through Jenkins. I believe you could also do something similar with AWS CodeBuild
graceful shuttle
on call is only for full time and also they're on rotation so the same people ar...
Interns probably should be kept away from on-call duties
main thicket
oh yeah of course, they dont know the codebase enough to fix stuff anyway
graceful shuttle
Their tuition would be paid in company time, is how I've heard it put in the past; when an intern is given way more than they can handle
Well, I dunno actually. Maybe that works in some scenarios
abstract breach
How to get a job?
main thicket
Step 1) apply
round hinge
How to get a job?
just get one
maiden solar
idk how startups do people on call especially if it’s a small company
on startups everybody has to be ready on call 24/7
even on weekend
abstract breach
just get one
Thanks for enlightening me.😂😂
marsh wind
on startups everybody has to be ready on call 24/7
I can attest to that 🙂
well ok, 7/7 often yes
but I say fuck it and my phone is always on do not disturb from when I got to bed till first alarm