career-advice

[mortal wedge]

I would only be applying to positions you have direct provable experience in and if you're currently unemployed you may have to accept a step down on level and/or pay.

[true harness]

isn't that not QA automation and testing?

[mortal wedge]

I wouldn't consider feature design as a QA automation/testing position

(Depending on feature, obvoiusly)

[severe mountain]

but designing features has to be more specific no?

[clever shell]

no, its not, but you asked if i liked front end or back end more and thats my response, and someone said qa testing was just an entry thing

id like to get into qa, where i essentially try to break shit all day, and write reports about what works, what doesnt, and potential fixes to the bugs i find

[mortal wedge]

That's a fine role for gamedev, but it's not really a software development role, just to be clear

[clever shell]

in a perfect world thats my job, in a more realistic world, i design mechanics or features for games, websites, and apps

[clever shell]

ive broken a lot of websites accidentally, and i feel like they could really use it ngl

[severe mountain]

yes but isn't QA more of a thing you do as a software engineer already? you design software/features, you build it, you test it and break it, you fix it. QA alone might be an entry level thing as someone earlier said it to be

[next plover]

in larger companies QA is separate from SE

[clever shell]

maybe i could do some sort of QA consultation company? i review peoples products, write up features that i broke, how they broke, etc

like a playtester but a lot more helpful

[severe mountain]

but for that you need credible experience as a software engineer no?

[mortal wedge]

There are different types of QA/automation testing and different types of errors trying to be caught. Someone doing Quality may be running things like stress tests, load tests. Game testing is often offloaded to the public in betatests.

The difference is someone in QA may be actually writing code/automations while someone doing purely testing is just a human interacting with the product

[true harness]

it's not just an entry thing, it's typically viewed as a more entry level role, and has a lot of competition

[next plover]

and QA is not to be confused with appsec which is by no means entry level

[mortal wedge]

QA might be.... how does your API handle being queried 5 times per second for an hour? How about if we are doing 100 query bursts every other minute? Etc

[severe mountain]

i've been looking at a few companies trying to automate QA via LLMs even the UI stuff. Lambdatest is one such example

[clever shell]

i’m a very fast learner with a ton of experience in coding, so atp ill take any path that has a lot of jobs and less competition

[next plover]

or, "I would like to order -1 burgers and 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 fries please"

[severe mountain]

isn't that utopia, it would imply the job itself is very hard.

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. testing the handling of out of scope inputs and such would also fall under role responsibilities

[clever shell]

im in this career field for the passion and the money, i dont need 150k but like an 80k would be more than enough for me to be more than comfortable

[next plover]

also may cross into appsec, looking for overflows and stuff

[severe mountain]

are we talking US?

[clever shell]

yeah

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. And depending on company size and organization structure there can be a lot of overlap with adjacent roles and responsibilities

[next plover]

very true

[mortal wedge]

At the very least I think it's good to understand the basics of roles that are adjacent to yours in any organization, even if you're not taking on those types of tasks. Your coworkers will thank you.

[severe mountain]

i might be wrong to assume but isn't 80k like, a little too much for an entry level position?

[next plover]

its essential to work with anyone outside of your department in an efficient way tbh

[clever shell]

at this point id even go into cobol 😭

[next plover]

you can get good money in COBOL its just very niche

[mortal wedge]

Not necessarily. It depends on type of role, qualifications asked for, etc.

[clever shell]

most entry level coding jobs pay around that

[mortal wedge]

Also dependent on market factors that have completely exploded recently

[clever shell]

thats what i want thoughh, something niche would have less competition

[next plover]

also less roles though

[clever shell]

but less competition

[severe mountain]

crazyyy, never knew us paid that much

[clever shell]

im coding in godot for gamedev, which is really niche aka how i got my job despite having no previous coding jobs

[next plover]

entry level cybersecurity is ~100k (although entry level cyber is not really "entry level" IT)

[clever shell]

cybersecurity is even more oversaturated than SWE

[next plover]

im lucky i got in

but most people graduating with those degrees cant write a line of python so that cuts down a portion of the competition

[whole flare]

real

[severe mountain]

i suppose the expenses in US are equally high. I am at an entry level position making about 1500 a month, and it would be enough to pay for my university, a car, and a flat to rent including an international trip once a year.

[next plover]

there was someone in a masters program for cyber shadowing our team and she... didnt know anything

[clever shell]

i could live off from 20k a year (tax free)

[whole flare]

many such cases

[clever shell]

80k would be really nice because with my spending habbits i could do anything i want

[true harness]

pay in the US is generally higher than other places, even accounting for cost of living. the income disparity is unfortunately quite large

[severe mountain]

i suppose, start small and grow there. like how you're doing w game dev

[severe mountain]

man, that's quite lucrative from my POV

my first internship paid me 150 USD a month

[clever shell]

i also am making my own video game and an investor is giving me 1000$ to make the kickstarter, and spending 3000$ on an ad campaign for it using his expertise in marketing

[severe mountain]

if it works for ya, great!

[clever shell]

im just fighting burnout hard because of the whole yk- 16 hours a day for 3 months thing loll

i didnt even take a break for christmas, im so determined to make it in this field

[severe mountain]

you shouldn't be doing 16 hours a day in the first place. I get pushed by my employer but I strictly maintain a ceiling of 10 hr w avg 8 hrs

burnout won't help in the longer run, you'd be killing your productivity

[clever shell]

itll calm down after the kickstarter prelaunches

[severe mountain]

aight, sounds cool, appears you've got it somewhat figured out? just anxiety?

[clever shell]

yeah- a lot of anxiety… and burnout

im 21 and i have a pretty clear path to becoming a gamedev professionally, but im just scared that ill mess it up

[severe mountain]

mm, see what 16 hrs does to you? take a day off, maybe two.

[clever shell]

and being a gamedev isnt gonna make me retire at 30, which is my goal

i get its a little bit delusional, but let a girl dream 😭

[severe mountain]

mm, its alr, stick to ur goals

[deft cairn]

Thats a pretty big dream but u never know

[clever shell]

the investor has done 3 kickstarters in the past and theyve all raised over 80k

[severe mountain]

maybe thsi should continue in OT?

[deft cairn]

Guys i wanna get into coding is it worth learning..

[severe mountain]

y'all let's take this to OT, would allow a much greater freedom of discussion.

[clever shell]

um, depends, do you want a job or to be able to make whatever you want?

[deft cairn]

Well I am looking up to a job since there is a academy in my city.. tho im not good with maths which evb tells me I have to be.. so im looking up to getting a job but also id like to be a gamedev

[clever shell]

well you dont have to be good at math to be good at coding, coding a project is kind of like writing a book with a different kind of math

[severe mountain]

gamedev requires quite a bit of maths, but general software doesn't usually need a lot of math

[clever shell]

not as much as youd think, unless youre building the whole engine yourself

in my job and project, theres very little straight math

[severe mountain]

i suppose you could say that.

[deft cairn]

So if I want a job and to be a gamedev and will also have to learn c++ in school.. what do you guys suggest me

[severe mountain]

#ot1-perplexing-regexing hey, let's continue this here. this is no longer career advice specific.

[remote orchid]

Where can I go to get the basic down without having to go to college?

[solid parcel]

Have you seen the Stanford ARTEMIS pre-print?

[next plover]

yeah that stuff is not a great metric

its like saying we dont need pentesters as long as we have automated scanners and exploitation tools... when pentesters are the ones making the tools and creating the exploits

not to mention a red team does much more than just hack things

[solid parcel]

I wasn't saying it implies red teamers are about to be replaced, but it's certainly interesting to see the ways in which LLMs can be leveraged to extend their capabilities and to (with clever orchestration) complete complex tasks across a several hours long time horizon

[next plover]

that makes me curious, when an agent does a test and takes down the entire network, who is responsible

but yeah i mean, in the same way AI is useful for boilerplate prgramming it could be nice for boring enumeration maybe, although i generally like to do stuff like that myself since i trust myself more than AI

[solid parcel]

Funny you mention that.. My suspicion is the proficiency of LLMs at red-teaming, in tandem with the lack of guardrails currently in place around vibe coding, is going to spike the number of materially damaging breaches that occur.

I reckon we're going to see orgs forced to shift toward improved continual validation of their security posture. Testing actual behaviour via security chaos engineering, rather than relying so much on point-in-time pentests or what behaviour 'should' be based on documented controls.

One of the core difficulties with implementing chaos security engineering is that it potentially introduces a whole host of issues that traditional chaos engineering does not.

[mortal wedge]

!res Have you checked out these resources yet?

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[remote orchid]

I have not check them out

[next plover]

i would argue vibe coding has already had a major impact in recent vulns and breaches

im talking we just got a vuln in zlib(?) becuase they used strcpy instead of strncpy and passed it to a char[1024] and could overflow

[solid parcel]

I pretty much only come across C when I'm reading through a textbook rather than in the workplace, so I could be mistaken.... But nowadays would snprintf not be the goto for a safe string copy?

[next plover]

yeah and i think strncpy is generally safe as you pass the size of the string so it catches sizing issues before shit goes down

ah i see yes, so snprintf has the bonus of adding a null terminator which is safer than strncpy

you would need to manually terminate the string if you didnt use snprintf

[solid parcel]

Hooray, look at me, knowing something about C 😆 That's a rarity

[mortal wedge]

Knowledge is power, baby!

[vapid jay]

Quit discord for a week, had the biggest irl reality check OAT time to get a j*b and seek education boiz 🍷🗿 ts winter arc is gonna be tuff

[short current]

Idk which computer science job should i pick

[indigo crown]

jOb

[solid parcel]

At least relative to the market of the past few months, it's not a bad time to be looking 🙂 Lots of roles opening up this past week.

[solid parcel]

Great, another bloody bot

[crisp stream]

This is not appropriate in this server, and especially this channel
Consider this as a warning to not do this again
Your message is removed

[still radish]

Ok so ik this aint the most normal message but how do i become an exchange student at 16

[balmy mural]

You'd have to be part of a school that has an exchange student program, and then you'd have to look at what you'd need to do to meet that specific program requirements

[still radish]

My school has erasmus but its only 2 weeks and i want to do atleast a few months

[barren lotus]

what kind of soft skills are you looking for when you see an applicant

[fringe sphinx]

Think of the interview format: the interviewer asks a question, you answer. But, there is opportunity to demonstrate empathy or social cues throughout. Engaging the interviewer rather than robotically answering the questions, asking clarifying questions, making small talk type comments (even the usual weather, traffic, parking, where they go for lunch, etc), explaining your thought process.

A lot of it is just showing you're human, you're easy to talk to, and are self aware.

[barren lotus]

my impression of an interview is that it's a very formal thing

[fringe sphinx]

It's not like being deposed by lawyers with strict rules, etc.

(Or sitting in front of congress)

[barren lotus]

how about in a cover letter?

i was advised to write a short paragraph in the cover letter about my soft skills

[fringe sphinx]

It's just a conversation between two people. They want to know about you, and there's ways you can just be professional (not formal but not casual): and being professional allows room for a back and forth with the interviewer, not merely question->answer

[barren lotus]

I see

[fringe sphinx]

I don't really care about covers, but maybe you could talk about enjoying working with customers and learning from everyone around you.

[barren lotus]

"roboticall answering the questions" is how i treated interviews before today

[barren lotus]

i see

though i guess i dont "enjoy" working with customers

i like helping people, and if that happens to be helping someone find something that they were looking to buy, then that's perfect for both of us

[fringe sphinx]

I'd embrace that idea, that's a good starting point

The buy part isn't important, but the idea of being 'of service' / helpful to people is

[barren lotus]

alright, i will need some time to think through how to phrase it well

thanks! @fringe sphinx

[solid parcel]

They generally do have a fairly standardised structure, particularly at larger orgs. That said, it's usually possible to maintain a pretty conversational and collaborative tone.

My favourites are when they pretty much just feel like a chat between peers. Discussing tradeoffs, potential limitations, prior experiences etc.

[barren lotus]

i think the professional but casual part that billybobby mentioned is quite insightful

it's like if they were a coworker from a separate team and you met them in the pantry

[solid parcel]

Yeah I like to treat them as a conversation between peers (obviously taking cues from the interviewer(s), too). I've had a few where it's been fairly pressured and rapid fire. The AWS one particularly comes to mind

[barren lotus]

sounds like it will be painful to work with that team

[solid parcel]

Ha, yeah after that interview they invited me back for the final loop, but I declined. Alarm bells were ringing! My gut was that it would be a road to rapid burnout, and the comp wasn't even good enough to make that worthwhile.

[barren lotus]

haha good call good call

[rose pulsar]

Hey everyone! I'm a self taught developer from Pakistan, currently learning Software engineering. I've finished Payton basics. My goal is to break into Big Tech

[proud glacier]

<@&831776746206265384>

[near ocean]

#keep_linkedin_contained

[fringe sphinx]

We dont allow random links on this server. Stick to the channel topic and don't self advertise your LinkedIn. Your post has been removed.

[vapid jay]

Guys I'm getting paid $500 per week for 12 more weeks to help me find a job funding wise, what are some good books I could buy in the UK to learn python and some other programming languages?

[vapid jay]

I basically already know Python syntax anyway since I got Lua/Ruby experience.

[vapid violet]

!res has paid resources iirc

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

Your options are almost limitless. But, the best use of time for a beginner is practicing... not reading. Build projects, challenge yourself.

That said, Fluent Python is often recommended

https://www.fluentpython.com

[wild finch]

I've experience in building Dapps, Smart Contract, Dex Development, NFT platforms, web3 games, AI Agent, AI Automations, Mobile apps..
If you're building such a project, please let me know..

[solid parcel]

I'd go deep on one language (Python is likely the most flexible) rather than trying to learn multiple simultaneously. If you're targeting helpdesk or sysadmin roles, consider Powershell instead.

[vast shoal]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[smoky quest]

I would suggest to look at examples of career ladders like https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/131XZCEb8LoXqy79WWrhCX4sBnGhCM1nAIz4feFZJsEo/edit#gid=0 or https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ic3_software_engineer.html

Though it comes down a lot to:

• Things that will make you awesome to work with. Are you self-starter or do you need a nanny? Are you picking up ideas quickly? Do you have empathy? Do you pick up on social cues? Can you work with others even if you disagree on some parts? Are you someone who radiates energy rather than suck it up?
• Things that will make you a liability. Are you going to make HR having your manager on speed dial? Are you going to hide problems? Are you a my way or the highway type of person?

[vapid jay]

🤑🤑🤑 GOD BLESS BRITANNIA, BRITANNIA RULES THE SLAVES, BRITAINS NEVER SHALL BE SLAVES 🥺 ✌️

[smoky quest]

wat

[vapid jay]

I went to a UK job centre where they give $600ish dollars per week for free to everyone for 13 weeks in a row

To help people find jobs and help the economy so W United Kingdom BOIIII

[smoky quest]

oh congrats!
What kind of resource is Google AI Ultra?

[vapid jay]

500 daily prompts for free is crazy

[vapid violet]

Gets money per (??? it seems to keep changing) to help with career development and learning
buys 120 AI subscription
buys 8.50 book

[vapid jay]

2nd highest tier of Google Gemini besides the business one which gets infinite prompts

[vapid jay]

To learn python do u even know how what Google AI Ultra is bruh

[smoky quest]

oh.
I would suggest to:

• Pick a lower tier. 20$/month is far more than enough
• Spend the rest on resources that will last you far beyond 13 weeks like a proper class or textbook/book

[vapid jay]

Well idk the exact amount £400 is in $ mate I'm not American

[vapid jay]

There's only 3 tiers and the ultra one was half price for 3 months so it's a good deal

There's $20 per month, $250 per month, and licensed business infinite prompts

[solid parcel]

Spending that much for a month of Gemini is an awful investment. Absolutely unnecessary.... As @smoky quest says, the $20 tier is more than sufficient.

[vapid jay]

I get 500 dollars per week for 13 weeks it doesn't matter if I overspend

[vapid violet]

An expensive AI subscription purchesed with money that is supposed to be for learning

[vapid jay]

Buddy its literally money given to me for free + I could just refund it in the Google Play Store later if I wanted to

[vapid violet]

I have never surpassed geminis free/student tier limits

[vapid jay]

• when u spend $1 in the Google play store u get 1 point so how is it a bad investment u get free loyalty points

[solid parcel]

What is the scheme meaning that you're getting this much money a month for free? You mentioned the job centre but it's certainly nothing I'm aware of

[vapid jay]

Pro is like 10x better than free the difference is crazy the difference between free and pro is like comparing a high school student to Nikola Tesla

[smoky quest]

it kinda does matter as there are great awesome books that can add up quickly like https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262046305/introduction-to-algorithms/ or https://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/ or the tanenbaum books, etc.

[vapid jay]

It's a UK government thing where they help people prepare for work at a building called a Job Centre

[vapid jay]

I was gonna buy books anyway I just dont know which ones to buy and where to find them irl

• it's better to buy it in the Google Play Store because I get loyalty points on there which I can use for free stuff in games

[smoky quest]

if only there was a career advice channel on a discord server about programming 🤔

😉

[solid parcel]

I'm in the UK. I know what the Job Centre is. The only 13 week scheme I'm aware of gives £65 a week, not several hundred. I'm concerned you may have misunderstood something

[vapid jay]

65 a week so did they just give me the entire chunk at the first week then?

Oh well $500-$600 for free is still good

[solid parcel]

Potentially. I would seriously recommend you find what the scheme is and what the terms actually are.

[vapid jay]

I can just go ask there next week, it's only my 2nd week in...

[solid parcel]

How much exactly did they give you? We can check if it's a multiple of £65. I'm wondering if they've given you 6 weeks of the money now, for example.

@vapid jay

[vapid jay]

@solid parcel Just remembered the lady told me it's 400 per month

And 13 weeks so like almost 2,000 total

So yeah pretty good for getting people started out and won't crash the economy, British people are so smart.

[solid parcel]

Cool, so likely the NEA scheme plus a bit from something else.

[vapid violet]

400 per month would be 1300 after 13 weeks

[vapid jay]

No idea what NEA is

[solid parcel]

Yeah, I was just about to say

[vapid jay]

I barely go outside bruh I dont know all these UK schemes

[vapid jay]

Yeah I've been awake for 2 days straight I'm a little slow mentally rn

[solid parcel]

An acronym for the wrong scheme, ignore that 😁

[vapid jay]

Yeah funniest thing happened last week though they put me in a room with a guy who looked like he snorted fifteen pounds of cocaine, a 30 year old man in 2007 clothes, a random Muslim girl, and so many random people LOOOL

Gave me the craziest reality check now I actually have the motivation to lock in

[solid parcel]

The good news is that where it's the new year, I'm seeing tons of job postings going up. Admittedly primarily for senior roles, but it's good to see the market is starting to move again. Very quiet past couple of months

[near ocean]

Its ok we'll be seniors too someday

[solid parcel]

Already there 😁😉

[mortal wedge]

You guys ever asked to put on presentations of your best projects during interviews?

[solid parcel]

Nah, though I've been asked to create a PowerPoint to present an architectural design to a solution before.

[leaden jasper]

Yeah, for interviews in my field that's kind of the standard. They'll ask me to present a project from prior work

[mortal wedge]

Okay, cool. I've only come across it a couple times and only during this latest stint of job searching, wasn't sure if it was a norm or peculiarity

[smoky quest]

yeah it does happen

[pastel thunder]

For people with extra ordinary career trajectory, for example someone like meta new research hires.

How do they get so well known to the point external people wanna hire specifically them?

Here I am working hard and still getting a hard time creating visibility to my M2 who does not know much at all.

My M2 and M1 will soon change and we have setup a meet with M2 for AMA.

but I realized I have no real questions, not because I cant think of any but because they are already answered by my M1 and others in prior AMAs.

Here possibly communication could be outlined as a problem but I have no real reason to talk to M2.

I do a bunch of original work to the point re-organised team has outlined my original idea/ongoing work as highlight and as >50% deliverables in next quater.

Plus all this original work I do, theres always my M1 who wants to presents the same to M2 and M3.

What can I do about this?

The straight answer would we asking for opportunity to present my work to seniors but how can than happen more organically, without sounding like I am jumping over them.

How about this:

I do agree I have been a little too inclusive in past, like adding my M1 as co-author of proposal when all they did was create hinderance/resistance (since we are research team, its hard to get traction on new ideas. I literally have go against last time but it played out in favor of team greatly)

Should I start collaborating with other people in/out of team (its possible for the setting I am in) for new proposals/initiatives rather than M1s?

[mortal wedge]

Are you speaking specifically to Meta or just being hired in a research position?

Also, forgive me, I'm not aware of M1/M2 etc in this context

[mortal wedge]

Any templates you like to use that you could recommend? Or just any general advice/suggestions. I need to throw together one by Monday and have blanked on everything I learned in uni 😅

[solid parcel]

I'm assuming referring to managers. M1 = Direct manager, M2 = Skip level and so on.

[leaden jasper]

Make sure you cover the fundamentals of the project, since you're presenting to an audience that doesn't have the originla context. Focus on what you were able to accomplish, the work that you did, the impacts of specifically your work, and the current status of the project (i.e. finished? follow-on work? still in progress and handed off to someone else?)

Focus on parts that are most applicable to the role you're interviewing on. Like, spend more time/slides on that subject even if wasn't the majority of the work on the project itself. Hopefully that makes sense.

Also if this is for a larger team audience, include a few slides about you, some of your previous roles/work.

[mortal wedge]

I've been headhunted by Meta. I have no idea how they found me because while I've contributed to major research I was at a company where the clinical division head basically stole credit for all my work, only occasionally given me breadcrumbs on the occasional presentation. But truly in the niche Meta needed someone in I am a bit of a unicorn.

I'm not sure if all companies are like that with higher level leadership taking credit for your work. But I'm getting traction by just.... listing the projects and such anyway and being able to speak to them/present work on them. In fact, I'm coming up with such a project presentation now. But it is true that in the research world there are a few key differentiators that help tremendously

1. Having a PhD. It's just assumed that someone without a PhD is probably incompetent in research roles. It's not fair, just what I'm seeing. (I don't have one so have had to differentiate myself in other ways)

2. Having your name on published studies, the higher up the better. Also hard and is organization dependent where you worked.

3. Given presentations at conferences.

For my use case specifically, I wrote diagnosis and treatment algorithms for [redacted] that got FDA approved. While my name is all over submission documents, my name is definitely not anywhere on company presentations and is likely not anywhere on related clinical studies or whatever now. However, I still proudly declare that on my resumes and while people may not believe it initially, I can speak well to it because..... I did do it.

So I guess that leads to 4) Take part and drive major research projects, given credit or not, and be able to comfortably speak to your part in it and even if you can't prove it make sure it can't be disproven.

[mortal wedge]

Okay, cool. Just one guy, who has a long impressive sounding title that has "software engineer" in it, lol.

I think part of the reason I feel uneasy is that I'm always used to present my work with precise metrics, but I don't have access to anything related to this project anymore so I'd have to reconstruct details from memory and bleh. Since it was for a prior role and the company owns everything about it ofc

[leaden jasper]

So, in my experience the interviewers are very aware of that. They're not expecting a final wrap-up presentation for the project, but they'd like to see if you generally know what you're talking about. Can you describe the overall project well, can you mention critical details, are you able to talk about the results and process to obtain the results in a smart manner.

In general, I would aim for a "if I can explain this to my smart friends/significant other and they feel like they can mostly understand it but maybe feel a bit out of depth with some of the more specific details" presentation level.

[mortal wedge]

Okay, cool. I'll go for that level.

[solid parcel]

I find this a useful litmus test when explaining almost anything 😁 My go-to to validate how I'm presenting a topic to an audience significantly less familiar with it than myself is still to test if my mum can follow what I'm saying, lol.

[mortal wedge]

I do hate trying to guess the technical proficiency of the person I'm presenting or speaking to. I have definitely wildly undershot and overshot at different times and it can really offend people or get you into trouble.

And it's just sorry I really don't know 😢 And have come across boundaries in either direction

Anyway, for this context, vide supreme overlord director of all software engineer exalted I assume it's a very technical audience, although perhaps not extremely so in my niche?

[solid parcel]

Better to assume ignorance than knowledge, I reckon. At least with the former you can re-calibrate by skimming through some of the foundational parts and expanding more than planned on the deep dives. Hard to do that the other way around if you haven't baked the foundational stuff into your presentation at all.

As you say, often tricky to gauge...

[mortal wedge]

At least socially the worst I might get is yelled at, here.... high stakes

[leaden jasper]

You can always informally talk and discuss at a deeper level, but you can't really wind back a presentation to a shallower level

[solid parcel]

Who are you interviewing with? Is this Meta, or was the headhunting you mentioned something that happened previously?

[mortal wedge]

True. If I've lost someone or convinced them my expertise is not transferrable/relevant....

[leaden jasper]

Also, just have backup slides. If you're worried about going too shallow, have backups that go deeper

[mortal wedge]

Good call

[solid parcel]

Exactly what I was getting at 🙂

[mortal wedge]

Ah, no. It's a startup that wants to make clinical diagnostic software for eyeballs and issues related to them

They don't have existing infrastructure so assume I'd be carrying a lot of the weight here with regards to structural decisions and such.'

Hence why I think I should rely on a strong adjacent project instead of a weak and limited computer vision project

[true harness]

appendices 📈. everyone loves appendices

[versed portal]

what's the thought on python/programming still, with elon musk talking about how ai is gonna replace all the ''white coat work''
I mean i obviously get you need more marketing of ai..... but in terms of longevity.....
i still honestly don't know if it's a good market to go into any longer or not.....

[mortal wedge]

Well, first off, I would not listen to Elon Musk on anything related to software, he has no experience in software or engineering. Furthermore, people who are pushing AI (often the companies themselves) are going to advertise and offer the moon.

In terms of longevity, nobody knows. The technology is still growing and its impact is not fully understood by anyone and is misunderstood by many, but even misunderstanding drive growth/belief/actions.

For someone not already in the market it's hard to recommend going into python/programming if your goal is just to make a living. The tech market is the worst I've ever experienced.

Unfortunately depending on where you are and what you've got going on you may be somewhat stuck with it. When job markets get tight, transferrable skills don't really apply (it's hard to beat out someone with 5 years of experience in that specifc field when you only have adjacent experience). It's really tight even for mid level or senior roles. New entries to the job market in tech (especially in the US) are mostly out of luck.

If you are really motivated and already have the skills, you could still pursue it but you will have an uphill battle and nobody knows if things will get worse in the future or how much worse they'll get. It's definitely not stable right now.

I'm sorry, I wish I had a more hopeful answer or solutions.

[smoky quest]

In ~2 years, summon should work anywhere connected by land & not blocked by borders, eg you're in LA and the car is in NY
12:11 PM · Jan 10, 2016

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autonomous_Tesla_vehicles_by_Elon_Musk.

Elon Musk (@elonmusk)

In ~2 years, summon should work anywhere connected by land & not blocked by borders, eg you're in LA and the car is in NY

X · Jan 10, 2016, 8:11 PM

So I would take any of his claims with a ton sized grain of salt

[smoky quest]

Assume they are technical and have not worked on your project.
But that's not an excuse to start by blurting out some technical details without context. So rely on the STAR method to introduce the context and principal actors of your story.

Focus on what they want to learn about you.

Use slides and diagrams to support yourself. I also suggest to be mindful about private IP nonetheless (specific names, specific specs, values, etc.).

Assuming it's beyond junior level, the interviewers will also care about what's around the project. The code was not written in a vacuum. So how did you end up with that specific solution? Why this solution and not something else? What was tried? What would be future improvements? What would you do differently if you faced the same problem? How did you scope and made the roadmap?
That also includes communication and iterations. How did you get buy in from stakeholders? Did you stay in a cave for 6months before emerging with a solution or did you collaborate tightly with a client? How did you measure success?

It's fine to put 5 lines of code if you want to illustrate a specific point (ex: with this paradigm, I can express in 5 lines what would be hundreds of lines of python), but overall, you should consider it as a box you can talk about and demonstrate you understand it. But it won't be a group reading of your code.

Also the usual presentation advice:

• Put slide numbers. It makes it easier for people to callback to a specific slide if they have question
• Be mindful of your timing. If you have 120 slides for a 30min slot, that ain't gonna happen.
• Account for some presentation and question time. I assume this was communicated in the invitation
• Even if you aren't in a physical room, still assume your audience is very faaaar in the back. It's useful as a forcing function to limit the density of your slides. They are a support to your discourse, not a dumping ground or a book. Personally, I tend to limit myself to 3 bullets/arguments or a single diagram or 2-3 pictures
• Practice makes perfect. I never learn it by heart, but I practice enough that I have a good feel of the pacing and some of the key phrasing become natural. It helps preventing the dilution of your attention on D-DAY on minutia details
• It's perfectly fine to put some light cheeky/fun humor. But as usual, do it in taste and don't abuse it

[barren lotus]

the thing is, having these skills is quite different from showing people that you them, over a piece of paper

[smoky quest]

tell me more?

[barren lotus]

well, i think previously i mentioned that i was advised to write a short paragraph in my cover letter to show off my soft skills

so right now, my focus is on this paragraph in the cover letter

naturally i dont want to be writing an entire essay on why i am a great communicator, an empath and a saint

i dont think it's very important in the sense that most people think of the cover letter merely as a symbolic gesture

but i think i care enough about finding a job that i dont want to pessimize the quality of the content

[smoky quest]

and how does this relate to having these skills being quite different from showing people that you have them, over a piece of paper?

like, what's the problem?

[barren lotus]

i mean... one option is for me to illustrate with a real life scenario, but of course, it would be quite long

well, actually it might not be that long

[twilit scarab]

mi no know how do code can someone teach mi

[peak halo]

Only you can teach yourself, but other people can help you along your way

[twilit scarab]

bro but code impossib;e\

like its so hard to learm

[peak halo]

Sure, but that doesn't change what I said.

[twilit scarab]

wait so how do u learn

[peak halo]

When you're trying to learn how to do something, all learning is self-learning. Everything else is just a vehicle to cause self-learning.

[peak halo]

Looking at examples and changing them to do relatively pointless stuff, and building my way up from there

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[twilit scarab]

can you tell me the print command

im doing print(hi) but no work

[peak halo]

This is the career discussion channel. Try asking in #python-discussion

[mortal wedge]

It's a fairly senior position. And it's one I have a really strong shot for. It's just anxiety inducing. I could do this role really well and I have in depth knowledge regarding their business state/core business issues. It's just.... ugh, communicating that to them with a 3 minute presentation. Doesn't help that my need for a job is extremely desperate right now which I'm sure I also have to hide during all of this.

[spring ivy]

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!GzI8!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9ff735ee-9d7c-45b5-a202-a5312ccb19c4_1600x725.png

about sums it up

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!1ufY!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F782e1bec-bca7-4020-9a0d-2246416179dc_924x850.png
Wish i wasnt in nyc lol

[peak halo]

As it stands, I don't trust that a job listed as "ai engineer" actually involves AI engineering.

[smoky quest]

“I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”
― Terry Pratchett

[smoky quest]

The best engineers I have worked with were all able to articulate clearly very complex and technical problems

wait

is this literally a 3min presentation?

[mortal wedge]

Yes. I assume there will be a lot of dialogue afterwards but there is first a three minute block where only I am speaking

[barren lotus]

well, in this scenario, an empath will probably say that the HR has no time to be reading a long one

[smoky quest]

usually, what I have seen, is more like 20-30min presentation followed by 15-20min of questions

3min has no time for setting up the stage or providing any nuance

[spring ivy]

hence why we shouldnt judge before reading stuff properly 💀

[smoky quest]

What do you mean?

[spring ivy]

The best engineers I have worked with were all able to articulate clearly very complex and technical problems

wait
is this literally a 3min presentation?
3min has no time for setting up the stage or providing any nuance

contradictory replies made by you, to the same sentence posted by ultimate chaos, which already mentioned the 3 min deadline

[smoky quest]

Why are you trying to establish connections where there is none?

Whether it's 3, 15 or 90min, it doesn't change the statement that the best engineers are able to articulate clearly very complex and technical problems. The amount of time only changes the scope

So what is the problem?

Maybe you should read messages twice before commenting 🗿

[dreamy shadow]

I'm working through the 2011 (swapping to 2020) mit DSA course. I'm going to do the leetcode questions too. (Trying to pivot from DS ⁉️ position to a more structured MLE position)

Is there any other resources I should know about in order to prep for algorithmic coding interview portion?

[mortal wedge]

Honestly I haven’t gotten any algorithmic coding interviews for ML roles. Unless they are conflating Gen AI with ML which some companies do

[dreamy shadow]

I'm gunning strictly for MLE roles at FAANG. Algos is definitely in their interview loop.

I've gotten tired of the "w/e the fack our company decides a DS role should be, and here's the random interview questions". Other way is to try for product DS role.

[mortal wedge]

I think there are online resources , maybe on Glassdoor, that may expose interview questions/coding exercises for specific roles at those companies. If I was asked to design an algorithmic task for an mle position I don’t know what I’d come up with. Like maybe write regularization or optimizer logic directly, but it’s not like anyone in the field does that.

I know leetcode exposes questions asked by different companies and Glassdoor may give you position specific question insight

[dreamy shadow]

Ok, then I'm more or less on the right track. I've been using blind for that. I think it'll also be worth paying for leetcode premium to see the company tags for leetcode questions. I've read something like 2x medium, 1x hard.

[pearl prism]

hey

should i get a job on java on python on app dev or python on ai in the future still a middle sschoolser

adn planning to get a macbook for when i save up enough bday money

macbook air m4 13 in 256 gb storage and 16 gigs memory

on apple.com or maybe the education store for a discount of 100 bucks

[smoky quest]

You have plenty of time before worrying about career.

In the mean time, I would suggest to:

• Keep up the great grades so you can get to the school of your choice
• Have fun and build things! See what's possible and what you like. So make games, robots, graphic stuff or even your own programming language

[pearl prism]

i know but i wanna have a goal to build up to or ur gonna be blind ur whole life

like i want a road about heading where rathere than in the wilderness

[smoky quest]

yeah, that's why you need the best grades and work on fun stuff so you can develop your skills

the programming language or project itself doesn't matter. What matters is that you do something

[pearl prism]

pluh okie thanks for advice

[smoky quest]

you got it!

[smoky quest]

You did not work at all the past four years, so it will be difficult to catch up 365 days * 4 years in 30 days * 4 months.

There is no magic nor secret: you need to go through all the stuff you missed again.
So go back to your notes, books, projects. Read textbooks/notes and practice with projects and exercises

CS is far more than knowing how to write some python. Writing some python is like the first class of the first semester out of a 4 years degree. So you need to think bigger than just a language

Employers want the best candidate for the role.
Why would they pick you over someone who did spend the time and effort to learn all that material?

You did mention a decent package, not any job. A decent package would imply you are competitive with the market

it doesn't mean you can't have a career.
But you did screw up and you do have a handicap to make up for. The good news is that this isn't something hardwork can't fix. But it's still a handicap comparing to people who did not screw up. Different choices lead to different doors

and 4months is not something with enough time to make up for 4 years of education when you had teachers and materials available for your questions

so my advice to you:

• It's still worth working towards making up for it
• You can't expect to have the same opportunities than your classmates who did put the time and effort towards their career

Best time to realize it was 4 years ago. The second best time is today and you did it!
Now take that energy and go for it!

same thing than you: get a reality check
Then work hard to make up for it

As a recruiter, I reject more people than I make an offer to. I don't care if you loose your house or don't find a job. I am not your mom. My job is to find the best candidate for the role and there are thousands of applicants for a single opening

Beggars can't be chooser.
Prepare for the proverbial frontend/backend and apply everywhere and take what you can get

• Get a resume
• Get your resume reviewed. Feel free to send an anonymized version here
• Prepare for interviews (technical, behavioral)
• Continue to catch up on the curriculum and projects

and remember it's a marathon, not a sprint. This will take months. So manage yourself accordingly

good luck!

[mortal wedge]

Hah. Don't have to guess the technical depth/domains of my interviewer, found him on linkedin

No

It's impressive,, but I can see why they're recruiting for this role. He's really strong on the hardware/computer vision side, but when it comes to setting up the architecture for an ML platform/clinical decision support software, they need someone experienced to make those sorts of decisions and set the whole pipline up with little guidance and a lot of ambiguity. So I think my risk of focusing on that aspect will pay off. I'm not going to impress or blow him away with minor CV projects when he's so well versed

I think I need to do some research though on the underlying tech they're using so I can make sure that my experience/presentation can map to it as close as it can be

[smoky quest]

Given the short timeframe and the questions you have about scope, it wouldn't be weird to send an email to roughly state:

• Hi! I have worked on the presentation over the week end and would like to confirm X, Y, Z. If this is incorrect, it may make sense to reschedule the interview so I can course correct

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, not the worst idea. Like... it couldn't hurt to send that, right?

Like "how dare this scrub ask clarifying questions to ensure a productive interview"

[smoky quest]

if you had 2 weeks to prepare and were asking this on the eve... that would be different

but from my understanding, that's a pretty short notice one

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. I didn't even know I'd be speaking to a technical person or giving a presentation at all during scheduling, they told me immediately after they scheduled it lol

Although, devil's advocate they did say that they want someone in this position that can succeed despite ambiguity and with little direction... and maybe their guidance in letting me choose a project I'm proud of and that is relevant is some sort of test?

[smoky quest]

little direction means they don't have to tell you how to solve it.
But you still need to agree or be clear on what to solve

[nocturne canyon]

Hyy i am building ai smart vity app lets dm me for more information and than we connect

[tulip dragon]

Yo guys, is it still useful to learn coding after the advancement of AI, I know it is but whats a smarter way to learn it if it is?

[smoky quest]

there isn't a smarter way to learn it

just learn it

[soft walrus]

hi, so im a cs sophomore, learnt cpp till dsa and fair in python, i want to get onto a path learn some skills, build some projects, idk why but i dont really dig frontend and i tried to start the ai route but too much math and pretty complicated

what path should i take given my current skillset

[twilit scarab]

Can someone help pls I'm tryna use mine script and I'm trying to import mine script so I can use it and it's just not working and I need someone to explain the steps one by one pls

[smoky quest]

how does that relate to this channel?

[twilit scarab]

Idk

[smoky quest]

so why asking?

[twilit scarab]

I just need help gng and like there ain't a general chat

[smoky quest]

You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[twilit scarab]

I did and I made a post but I don't wanna wait 50 billion hours

[smoky quest]

you won't find an answer on a channel dedicated to careers...

[proud glacier]

#python-discussion is the general chat

[twilit scarab]

Gng i just need help bro

[smoky quest]

then ask in the proper channel rather than spam a bunch of people who have nothing to do with it

[barren lotus]

@smoky quest i still have to write something in my cover letter

[near ocean]

Why

[barren lotus]

i cant exactly leave it blank, can I?

[near ocean]

Cover letters are weird hiring manager/hr power trips, fight the power

[smoky quest]

Hold on

[barren lotus]

i know, it's just that i care enough about finding a job to give a fuck about writing a cover letter well

[smoky quest]

There is a grand canyon between:

• You care about the craft and want to implement the best patterns and leverage idiomatic python
• You are a doormat who will bring coffee and clean up the mess

[barren lotus]

it's about the phrasing, i dont know how to phrase it

[smoky quest]

Given it's a cover letter. You most likely want to go about how you want to do things right

HOWEVER

a cover letter is usually about:

• How awesome you are
• How awesome the company is
• How awesome you both are together 🫶

[barren lotus]

you already know im terrible at writing these kind of things

[smoky quest]

so you are saying that the craft is something you want to talk about in the first paragraph?

[smoky quest]

tbh, it's less about being terrible and more about being heartfelt

[barren lotus]

no, it's more of the paragraph about soft skills

[smoky quest]

why do you need a whole paragrpah about it?

[barren lotus]

i was advised to do that

[smoky quest]

let's take a step back

what's your whole plan for your letter?

[barren lotus]

the structure that i was advised to write looks like this:

1. Why you want to work here
2. Background
3. Projects
4. Soft skills
5. Ask for an interview

[smoky quest]

okay I could roll with it. What do you have so far?

[near ocean]

Cant you ask an llm to give you a very rough outline for this and edit it, natural language is what they're supposed to do

[barren lotus]

with regards to the soft skills paragraph?

[smoky quest]

the whole letter

[barren lotus]

i have quite a few variants

[barren lotus]

im too stubborn to use an llm

[smoky quest]

we only need one

[near ocean]

There are plenty of examples of cover letters available online, i doubt you need llms

[barren lotus]

the point is i think i already know how to write paragraphs 1-3

and now my focus is on the soft skills paragraph

[barren lotus]

it is quite possible that these paragraphs still sucks, but that's not my focus right now, so let's just KIV those

[smoky quest]

the thing for me is that saying you care about the craft is great and worth being proud of, but not something a recruiter would necessarily want to interview you over

[barren lotus]

i see

[smoky quest]

maybe something either bigger or more passionate

[barren lotus]

what might you consider remarkable

just as an example, i understand that it probably doesnt apply to me

[smoky quest]

the main example is a nerd

like I have thousands of students

but most of them just do it because they expect $$$, not because they sweat nerdiness

[barren lotus]

(im still here, im just thinking through what you said)

[barren lotus]

how about the fact that im willing to sacrifice my time to help others with their code, including strangers over the internet, for no tangible gains at all

[smoky quest]

that's a start, but typically and in my experience, not as strong as contributing to projects

like discord/irc/matrix is great to make connections, but it won't look that strong in terms of nerdiness

[barren lotus]

how about something along the lines of: im contributing to the project even though i have already graduated and wouldnt enjoy any of the improvements, simply because i found it really useful myself when i was studying at the university and i want to make it better for my juniors

[solid parcel]

Urgh, I despise cover letters, my commiserations on having to write one

[barren lotus]

or the fact that i found the tinymist extension very useful and i want to write a PR to help make it better for both myself and others

[barren lotus]

#career-advice message

[smoky quest]

feels too passive aggressive

[solid parcel]

Valid take, my commiserations nonetheless!

[barren lotus]

but the content is fine?

[smoky quest]

no because there is no passion

I want to see the red burning passion

but your sentence is only about how you did whatever even though you graduated

[radiant vortex]

Agreed lol

[barren lotus]

haha no im going to work on the phrasing, im not going to copy paste it literally

[smoky quest]

like an example of someone I saw was how he was the very first person in the world to hack an iphone

that did get attention

[barren lotus]

that's quite good to know, i will think along that line

[smoky quest]

though that wasn't a soft skill

I think here, you should not limit yourself to soft skill

but to show something you would even if you aren't employed or being paid for it

[solid parcel]

'Hi, I'm Zehata. Hire me, I was the 1,306,446th person to hack an iPhone!' 😆

[barren lotus]

i dont even have an iphone xD

[solid parcel]

Ditto, I'm currently typing to you from my very cost efficient Xiaomi 😌

[smoky quest]

bro built his own androidOS

[keen bison]

Hello everyone, who knows how it is possible to earn approximately 20 dollars only with knowledge of Python? It's just that my headphones broke the next day after the purchase, and there was no money left for new headphones

[barren lotus]

you'd have better luck working part time at a retail store

[barren lotus]

that's actually really useful

[smoky quest]

other stuff was people being editors on textbooks that are being published for students.

In short, be the chameleon in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYRlTISvjww

[barren lotus]

i did a lot of things without being employed/paid for it

[smoky quest]

(yes, it is peak linux music. No one has topped it since then)

[keen bison]

I live in Ukraine and to earn $20 like that, I have to work a lot of time because in small stores our salary is often less than $200, especially in small cities (and I live in one of those cities).

[smoky quest]

then make a list of them, group them try to find a theme

[keen bison]

Here it will be even more profitable to hand over metal for scrap metal.

[barren lotus]

9 out of 10 times, in any team ive been on, im the first engineer person to respond to user reports

[smoky quest]

high empathy and caring about users is huge

[barren lotus]

this is part of why i enjoy writing frontend too, previously during my internship i realized how meaningless it is to create a product that business management purchases, but their staff hates using. i put a lot of attention into making the user experience good, this of course, also extends to ensuring that the performance is acceptable

[smoky quest]

that could be something worth putting in your cover late

[barren lotus]

alright, i will work on it, thanks!

[smoky quest]

np but remember it's at the service of demonstrating how awesome you are. It's not an end in itself

[radiant vortex]

"yeah im pretty cool 😎"

[solid parcel]

I've seen a lot of orgs recently (particularly startups/scaleups) engaging much more quickly with user feedback. Building in public and, in extreme examples, even integrating some user suggestions within minutes.

It's definitely a valuable time to be visibly responsive to users.

[barren lotus]

within minutes sounds like an exaggeration

[solid parcel]

Right?! Agreed, but I've seen it happen. That's still a rarity, I just wanted to highlight it as the extreme end of that engagement.

[smoky quest]

ngl, a big chunk of interviews are about how you carry yourself

[barren lotus]

im way too formal in interviews, compared to my usual self

[keen bison]

So, does anyone know how to earn 20 dollars with the most basic Python without libraries?

[barren lotus]

it's closer to how i would behave in a client meeting rather than at a daily standup

[smoky quest]

it's unlikely to happen. You would have better luck working teen/student jobs

[keen bison]

I understand, but it’s just impossible to find a part-time job in my city, and even if I do find one, they pay very little per day, 2-3 dollars if you work hard all day, and even in my city, I didn’t look for any, when I was 12 i sold scrap metal and earned $30 in a week.

[smoky quest]

that's not an issue.

But if you appear super insecure, people will think you are super insecure

[smoky quest]

Then you got your answer

[keen bison]

The answer is "no way" as I understand it?

[smoky quest]

Looks like it

[keen bison]

Well, the only thing is, it's not Python, but I can update Windows for $5 for people and clear snow from the yard. It's just that this winter in Ukraine there was waist-deep snow.

[radiant vortex]

The problem is that you have freelancing sites such as fivver that are oversaturated with sellers, a lot of who just rely on AI so it's very difficult to stand out and get a quick gig like that

[smoky quest]

I hear you, but there is no magic nor secret

If anything, jumping on your windows update idea, think about what YOU are uniquely positioned to do

someone in India/China/Vietnam can't update your local stores' windows the same way you can

so try to leverage the IT/Windows/Internet part for your local stores

[keen bison]

I'm in Ukraine, by the way. 99% of people here don't even have basic computer knowledge, and they only know how to open a browser on a computer and that's it.

[barren lotus]

updating windows runs the risk of compatibility issues, which an individual cannot be expected to resolve

[smoky quest]

okay, so you do have unique knowledge your local businesses don't. So how can you benefit them?

and how might you make them aware of it

[barren lotus]

a lot of businesses will also ask you: why? why should they change how they work if what they have now is good enough

[keen bison]

And that's exactly what I don't know, I can make ads on our program like "eBay" or I can put up flyers, but another downside is that you won't be able to earn $20 instantly in a week, even for Ukraine, where the average salary is less than $400, will not be enough to earn money.

[smoky quest]

you can't expect to make money right away

you will have to go ask your local businesses about their problems, where they get their information, try different things, etc.

this will take time and energy

[barren lotus]

making money is hard

[smoky quest]

think about it this way: if it was that easy, someone else would already be on it

[soft walrus]

hi, so im a cs sophomore, learnt cpp till dsa and fair in python, i want to get onto a path learn some skills, build some projects, idk why but i dont really dig frontend and i tried to start the ai route but too much math and pretty complicated

what path should i take given my current skillset

[keen bison]

I think I'll start by learning Django and similar libraries to earn at least a little money through freelancing, and I won't buy $20 headphones for now. Maybe I'll try listening to music on cheap $1 ones.

[soft walrus]

Please guide, i traversed roadmap.sh but i was confused

[ivory solstice]

i want to automate data on my google sheets with python but im a begginer. Anyone knows how i can do that or where i can do that?

[solid parcel]

Likely a question chat gpt can help with 🙂

[ivory solstice]

okay cool

[keen bison]

I came up with the idea,I can write bots for telegram because it's the only thing I can do,they pay little for it 5-10 dollars, but I can save myself up on used sennheiser

[keen bison]

What do you think? Is it a bad idea?

[wispy geyser]

hi

[quasi meteor]

There are so many tech jobs I'm currently 15, I'm confused about what career I will choose and I have only learn Python in a few days I'm non-EU. I want to work abroad especially in Switzerland and from now I want cybersecurity but I'm still considering cuz is not the top in-demand tech job and the website survey is inconsistent each one has a different rank of which tech job is in demand for 2026 and I want a longevity job in the near future any suggestions?

[balmy mural]

As mentioned before, websites like fiver are already oversaturated with people offering this service, at a low price, with positive reviews already. How would you stand out among the crowd? Why would people choose to use your services instead of someone else with 100+ five star reviews already?

[keen bison]

because I would put it on OLX (a Ukrainian platform like eBay) and make the price 2 times lower than others and they wouldn't expect a very mega super giant bot that would bring them 50,000 dollars a day

[quaint bison]

Hey everyone...need a little advice btw I m from India
I’ve been interning for 6 months but not getting much backend guidance, so planning to switch. What should I focus on for backend interviews or what topics should I focus on aside from basic CRUD operations and all ?

[fringe sphinx]

roadmap.sh is not good. Instead of a roadmap, focus on exploring different projects: build a game, a web app, a data project, do something with a microcontroller. Worry less about how novel the project is, focus on building good engineering skills: add test cases, build GitHub actions for ci/cd, publish it to pypi, deploy it to the cloud, add documentation. Those are valuable and career relevant skills.

[fringe sphinx]

Backend means almost anything. One way to prepare for backend interviews is to study how other complex systems are build; read about Twitter, or discord, or Reddit, or other stories that talk about design decisions that need to be made. Google 'software design case studies' or similar terms

[quaint bison]

Okay, I get that, but I’m still a beginner and only have basic knowledge of secure CRUD APIs and SQL/NoSQL databases. For those case studies, I feel like I first need to understand system design concepts, but there are so many resources online that it gets confusing.

[fringe sphinx]

Or, read the case studies... keep a list of things you didn't understand, and study those.

You should continue to build projects, and try new things. Reading is meant to expand your horizons.

[quaint bison]

ok sir 🫡
thanks for advice

[quaint bison]

also how much DSA prep I should do regarding with interview ?

[fringe sphinx]

There's no great answer. I'd say balance your time. Not too much of any one things.

(But not too little).

[quaint bison]

lol ok , I keep that in mind
thanks

[marsh salmon]

Does learning bout AI skills require high knowledge of Comp Sc? (I'm a Math Major )

[next plover]

what kind of "AI skills"?

[queen jewel]

depends on what about ai

[marsh salmon]

Analytical type

Getting clear insights of their outputs and follow ups etc.

[fringe sphinx]

Learning about AI is a good idea for anyone in a STEM major, yes. How deep you go is the unknown / depends on you.

There's no specific "high knowledge of CS" that you must attain before learning about AI. But, as with any topic, there's many many layers to it... but you'll still need to start at the beginning.

In other words - yes, you should learn a little about AI, then decide whether you want to learn more... as you learn more, you'll have a better idea of which topics interest you and how deep you want to go.

[marsh salmon]

Alr
Tysm for the help

[crisp stream]

!clban 1452350394712719380 spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @old thunder permanently.

[elfin depot]

Hii guys I'm a btech in computer science and engineering graduate from 2024 batch and it was also a tier 3 college its been 2 years since I graduated and still job less unemployed please help me or give me same advice and guide me through this situation currently I'm learning and practicing python

[next plover]

do you have any personal projects or anything to show off your skills / passion?

[elfin depot]

I don't I had make some project in my college has college projects

[balmy mural]

Are you getting to interviews and failing them, or are you not even reaching interviews for jobs you applied for?

[elfin depot]

I have gone for around 5 interview till now and failed all of them

[next plover]

everyone in college has those projects, you wont stand out from them. I would start on some personal projects or even a blog, those put you miles ahead of competition

[elfin depot]

So that's why I decided to get a couching from Hyderabad

[smoky quest]

If your resume only has projects from 2 years ago, it doesn't show you have kept up or are still technical

[smoky quest]

That's great!
How did you fail them? The main advice would be to work towards improving on what was the problem so next ones are more successful

[balmy mural]

5 interviews out of how many applications? If the problem is not getting interviews, you'd have to work on your CV. People on here give some great feedback if you want to share an anonymized version of your CV. No projects in the 2 years you've been unemployed for is a problem though. It means you don't have anything to show employers how you've been upskilling or staying up to date in the past 2 years

[elfin depot]

One of the main reason is my communication

[elfin depot]

I was trying to make the same project but because of financial problems I have to do same repido and Swiggy thing

[elfin depot]

Should I share my resume here or personal dm ?

[next plover]

here but remove personal info

[elfin depot]

Ok

I have not done any project recently

[solid parcel]

To be entirely honest, it reads like you did nothing but the bare minimum required for your course. Sounds like you've got the absolute basics of Python, CSS, HTML and JS and basically nothing beyond that.

[elfin depot]

Ok bro but now I want change and learn everything thing

Help me please

Is there any chances that I can still get an job

[balmy mural]

"Full Stack development with prompt engineering" gives off vibes that you're just another vibe coder and that you don't actually code yourself. I'd suggest removing that
You claim to currently be learning a bunch of tools/technologies, but you don't have a single project to show you've been learning those. How have you been learning them?
Create some more recent projects that show off the skills you want to show off

[elfin depot]

Ok

[solid parcel]

Agreed with the first line, particularly given the projects stand out as tutorial fodder than LLMs tend to be very adept at regurgitating.

[balmy mural]

Your CV layout isn't great either, but I think the most important actionable thing right now is getting some projects done end-to-end that show off the skills you need for a job

[solid parcel]

Actually agreed with all of it... I'd also advise showing some engineering maturity by integrating some unit and integration tests, and at least some basic documentation.

[elfin depot]

unit and integration test and basic documents like sir ?

[solid parcel]

I don't understand the question- do you mean you don't know what unit, integration tests and documentation are?

[spark silo]

I'd like some help. I'm feeling a little lost in the next steps of my career. I know what I want to do but need some advice from someone who is established in a data-related field

[mortal wedge]

I know this is probably pretty basic, but no matter how desperate you are for a job, even if the job looks legitimate be very wary if they require you to install something on your computer to be considered or interview.

[solid parcel]

Perfect time to use a VM 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Best thing to do here is ask the question directly!

[next plover]

**** If you know what you are doing

[mortal wedge]

If I’m showing off a project I made that’s relevant to a position and only have three minutes, should I make some of the overview flexible?

Like for instance if I worked on car engines and am applying to a jet engine company, should my first block be labeled “engine design” or “car engine design” with maybe a “can map on to jet engines”?

[warm sand]

i am sorry as i havent got a job because i am underage for it but i would lable it car engine design if it is about cars

[warm sand]

.

[mortal wedge]

I think at this point I'm overprepping, overplanning, and overanalyzing. I think I need to just.... take it down a notch or two

[smoky quest]

I am not really sure I follow the question, but something that is an option is to have some extra slides that are hidden (or at the end as an appendix sort of thing). So you don't have to present them in your 3min, but there are there if you want to get there

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, I have a couple slides set up at the end if they want a deeper dive

I'm just panicking/worrying mostly needlessly

[barren lotus]

i got cold called again, on linkedin

If I had a a nickel for every time I got cold called, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

[mortal wedge]

I had my first scammer of the year reach out to me on linkedin a couple days ago. "I have roles for you! but first show me your resume" "Here you go"

Then he posts this long like 4 paragraph essay about how it's not compliant with XYZ format and if I'd like his help.

After I said "I am only available in open roles, not resume writing services" he said "OK" and that was that. Indicating there was never any open roles to begin with.

(And it's so obvious they're either using boilerplate responses or just LLM scans)

[mortal wedge]

IS there a way to like.... hide slides? BEcause I'd love to be able to only focus on the three slides I have and not invite questions to followup slides unless they are specifically asking

nvm, figured it out

[smoky quest]

there is on google presentation and libreoffice impress

and if you use asciidoc, there is an attribute to hide them

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, but in presentation mode it's annoying (since it's hidden). So, I'd normally just have an appendix section at the end of the presentation that I can flip to.

[mortal wedge]

Ah fair

[tender hinge]

Hi hru

[bronze yew]

I am working as a gen ai python developer and i have 6 months of experience on that but in my current company do layoffs but now i'm not fired but i feel job insecurity so what i do

[solid parcel]

What do you actually do? Develop AI? Build out automations that leverage AI? Or do you mean you're a developer who relies heavily on AI in order to code?

[bronze yew]

I am building ai agents ,rag based applications ,chatbots, working on llm evolution , fine tuning , tokenization ,mlops,langchain, prompting and all other parts of ai and backend systems

[solid parcel]

Awesome, that's a very in demand skillset. How large is your company, how many people did they cut, and what did the cut employees actually do? Trying to get a sense of how likely you are to be vulnerable... Layoffs can be very stressful, but you may well be absolutely fine.

That said, it wouldn't hurt to make sure you've got your CV and LinkedIn polished, and to keep building up your skills.

[bronze yew]

I am working in startup and 100 people strength of this company and they working in multiple sectors like Ai ,web, digital marketing etc and they cut 3 to 5 employess due to no upconing projects and some employees asking for increament so they not give so that is the resons i heard . So i want to know what i will do like should i search new job or upskillng and stay here

[solid parcel]

Startups are always tricky, albeit 100 sounds more like a scaleup. Do you know if the org is profitable? 3-5 people being cut isn't something I'd be overly concerned about. It's common for orgs to trim some employees year to year. I would be concerned if the company as a whole is struggling, as that would imply they may have to cut more deeply to try and stabilise.

I'd be looking to upskill regardless of if you stay or leave. Generally speaking, I'd look to be in places for longer than 6 months as you don't want to look like a job hopper. An average tenure close to 2 years is pretty common. Is this your first role?

[bronze yew]

I think company is profitable because there are multiple things for earn money . And this is my second job i have one year of experience in my previous org as python ai developer

[solid parcel]

Cool. Based on the information you've shared, if I were in your position I'd lean toward staying for now, while prioritising developing skills that would make me as employable as possible so it would be easier to get another job if that were to become necessary. One of the best ways to do that is to look at job postings for the kind of role you do and pay attention to what the most commonly requested skills. Those are likely to be the ones most worth prioritising.

Obviously all of the above is fairly general advice and you know more about your specific situation than anyone else, so apply some common sense, too 🙂 For what it's worth, the fact you're planning ahead and engaging with communities like this one shows a level of maturity as an engineer, so well done for that.

[bronze yew]

Thank you for giving me your time for this issue and understand my situation and giving me good advice.

[next plover]

i had a random guy beg me to download his "resume"

probably "resume_2025.pdf.exe"

[whole flare]

send him my way

[next plover]

that message has been long deleted lol

peep the new nickname

[vapid jay]

the world just keeps getting dumber 😭

All these Gen Z/Gen Alpha kids/teens saying this will probably never be able to get a job 😭

The guy in question literally just wrote a basic essay btw anyway chat how do i make a camera using python? What parts do I need to rotate things using python etc? Raspberry PI is all I know rn...

[next plover]

why do people give a shit about random internet comments

[vapid jay]

I don't I just chose to write allat because like I needed to train my brain a little more. Write some more stuff...

It's not the comment that annoys me its the fact that 8+ people total believe his video is "AI Coded" because he wrote using formal English 😭

[next plover]

this is off topic but the logical leaps you take in your argument are kind of insane

[proud glacier]

this isn't the channel to post your own internet rants

[vapid violet]

Is this saying I did not get it because I was not selected or because they just threw my application out?

This notification is to inform you that the Company’s recruitment strategy for this role has changed, and we will be cancelling this requisition.

[near ocean]

By "requisition" do they mean hiring you?

[vapid violet]

This is a response to an internship application

[true harness]

a requisition in this context is just an open position

[vapid violet]

So they decided they no longer needed the role or something?

[near ocean]

It happens, you should stay in contact with the recruiter and periodically check their careers page

[vapid jay]

how literally how are u an atheist

[vapid jay]

are you a moderator? don't think so, so shut up. + it's programming career related. AI is used in future careers and essays are career related.

[peak halo]

The person you're speaking to is a staff member, but in either case, the way you're speaking to them is not aligned with our code of conduct.

!rule staff

[inner wren]

Rules

3. Respect staff members and listen to their instructions.

[vapid jay]

staff member in what

[peak halo]

This server.

[vapid jay]

whats staff about them besides having a pretentious sounding title how am i supposed to know what "Advent of Code Completinists" does

also is that even an administrator role because if its not i dont care buddy, NOT LISTENING.

[peak halo]

That role is a temporary "reward" for having completed a holiday event last month.

[vapid jay]

a temporary reward for what participating in something thats easy to program

[peak halo]

Bharadwaj Raju has the helper role, which is a staff role, and you're required to speak to them and me respectfully if you want to be in this server.

[vapid jay]

yeah okay guys lets all treat everyone like babies for doing the adult equivalent of basic reading and walking

[vapid jay]

is this the official python server? if not then ill just leave and make my own version and send a copyright takedown request in court to take this one down if its unofficial.

[peak halo]

Go ahead.

[vapid jay]

so its unofficial right?

first of all i have the money and connections game development wise to take down and buy the rights to use the name of the python programming language legally

[true harness]

try the problems, https://adventofcode.com

[peak halo]

We aren't an institution of the Python Software Foundation, but we're the only general Python server that has any sort of relationship (not in a formal capacity) with them. we're listed on their website.

[vapid jay]

second of all my parents and entire families are geniuses my dad literally learnt mechanical engineering in Iraq during the Saddam Hussein era after having to drop out of high school and being raised poor

[true harness]

weren't you excited about 1300 dollars in 3 months

[vapid jay]

third of all i am a genius god compared to you i speak 5 languages i can learn an infinite amount of languages i can read 10x faster than the average human and i can learn anything super quick

[jagged locust]

I don’t think this conversation is going anywhere

[peak halo]

!shhh

[inner wren]

✅ silenced current channel for 6 minute(s).

[peak halo]

!ban 1269222742087958603 "1 week" If you decide to come back to this server, we expect you to be fully compliant with our code of conduct.

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @balmy gazelle until <t:1768846906:f> (7 days).

[peak halo]

You're right, but let mods handle it.

!unshh

[inner wren]

✅ unsilenced current channel.

[lilac yoke]

https://tenor.com/view/vainzi-white-guy-gif-24847210

[pure raft]

How many leetcode generally should you have before trying for faang, on average and assuming you have the grasp of all the major paradigms

[solid parcel]

Bit of a piece of string question.

Imo a better approach would be researching the most common questions and level of difficulty for the roles and orgs you're interested in targeting, and seeing if you can solve equivalent questions with optimal (or close to it) time and space complexity within 30-40 minutes.

I'll also note that it's not uncommon to have the correct approach but incomplete code when it comes to LeetCode hards. That's not necessarily the end of the world as long as you've communicated effectively throughout. Very important to be able to articulate and refine your thought process as you go.

[long solar]

what happens if you give a price for a project and it takes longer than you thought

[pure raft]

Yeah I was thinking it’s a bit of a trash question but I had to ask it in here because I’ve benefited so greatly from this discord advice-wise hahaha. I’ll keep it in mind, I’ve heard some people say if you can solve the top 150 most popular without help you’re good, others ive heard around 1000

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on the contract.

[mortal wedge]

So, this is a really good question!

I'm not sure the scope of your experience or seniority, but basically there are pros and cons to different pricing strategies. But basically, it's good if you're able to accurately estimate the mount of work it will entail.

X cost per hour is the most direct, but some are uncomfortable because they feel like it can incentivize "laziness" or whatever.

When I'm doing contract work (and depending on project scope) I often have a staged process. Like if I'm asked to cxreate a project that can.... idk turn mushrooms into marshmallows, I have an exploratory phase where I determine based off of what they have how feasible this is and amount of time to complete. Essentially, it's scoping/exploratory work.

Based off of that, I'll try to best sum up to the client what I found, how feasible/scope of the project, then say he we can do this hourly and I'm currently estimating X hours, or we can bill for Y on the project.

Of course you have to be careful for billing a flat rate for a project because the client could just say they're never satisfied and you just work forever, but that's when you say that for a monthly retainer or whatever you can handle upkeep/maintenance, and emergent issues.

[fringe sphinx]

If you gave a "fixed cost" bid for a project, then you're committed to deliver or (generally) not deliver (and not get paid). Exceptions are when the customer changes the scope or there's circumstances that change on the customer side.

[mortal wedge]

I should clarify, my advice is if you have flexibility in establishing the contract, as opposed to responding to a contract role

[long solar]

it hasn't actually happened I'm just thinking about the situation

[fringe sphinx]

Like Chaos said, breaking a big project into smaller milestones is smart... especially when there's a lot of uncertainty.

[long solar]

really good answers

[mortal wedge]

Gotcha. If you're thinking of accepting a contract, definitely closely review these sorts of things. You don't want to be forever locked in to a company and wind up putting in like 50 hours to what should be a 10 hour project, or anything like that.

[fringe sphinx]

I like to joke that I'm 3 years into a 3 month contract. That's because - we started with a 90 day project, and turned that into a long-term relationship.

[mortal wedge]

Also if you're an individual contractor, make sure that even things like exploratory stages still have output they can review. Like if being asked to solve an ML problem, I'll describe different approaches I explored and how promising they looked, then let the client decide if they want to go ahead or which they want to go ahead with.

Obviously though you don't need all that sort of stuff if you're being asked to make a website or something, but you'd still probably come up with some mockups/designs

[long solar]

Yeah I've been doing similar things, describing technical stuff to my boss in a way she can understand

[mortal wedge]

No joke, that is low key one of the most valuable skills you can have in your career

[solid parcel]

1000 is absolutely absurd and unnecessary. I know the set of 150 you've heard mentioned and yes, that's an excellent starting point. Frankly, I don't think you even need to go through all of those. I'd do enough to get familiar with comfortably recognising when to apply which algorithm, and then if there's a particular set of orgs you're targeting, I'd prioritise practising questions they're known to regularly ask.

[mortal wedge]

Yeah I think you can, with a fee, get access to the problems that different organizations use. I'm also pretty sure you can find those question lists without the fee though

Or rather, have used in the past at any rate

I don't know if this is due to my seniority or niche, but I've found myself getting drilled with leet codes less and less while interviewing

but was definitely extremely common in my early years

[sand patio]

so ive got an interview tomorrow, and im wondering how exactly i ought to prepare

it's a hiring manager screen, so im assuming it'll mostly be behavioral stuff?

resume breakdown?

should i come up with questions beforehand?

[next plover]

they might also ask you what you know about the company, it helped me to research them (they asked)

[sand patio]

i see

[next plover]

i didnt preplan anything it was pretty simple, get to know who you are and why you want to work there

[sand patio]

gotcha

[next plover]

just take a second to think before answering, boomers love it for some reason and you can better phrase things in your head

[sand patio]

lmao fair enough

[next plover]

i fully took 10 seconds to answer a question about a previous experience

[mortal wedge]

Yes, come up with questions.

Hiring manager screen you will be speaking to someone who is likely fairly technically minded, but generally they are not the one to really drill into testing your technical aptitude. It's not really behavioral, they're the first pass after HR or whoever reviewed your skills and thought that you are relevant to the position. It's largely to confirm that you're relevant (although it's also a bit of a behavioral interview just by speaking to them, since you'll likely be reporting to them)

[sand patio]

any other type of questions they might ask?

[fringe sphinx]

#1: Tell me about yourself

#2: Why are you studying CS?

#3: How has your school year been so far?

[sand patio]

I see

[mortal wedge]

Be able to speak to anything you have listed on your resume

[fringe sphinx]

Practice the easy questions... use them as an opportunity to say what you want to say: "I'm kind of a big deal"

[sand patio]

these are great, appreciate it 👀 previously, i've also been asked about how I approach problems and problem-solving, and to explain a problem i've solved before.

idrk how to approach that type of question, though; should my example be a technical one?

[next plover]

also what is the position?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, pick one or two things from your resume as your home base. Stories you can talk to from different angles.

[sand patio]

"software engineer intern"

[sand patio]

gotcha, thanks.

[next plover]

yeah they're gonna focus on personality and how you approach things, generally people dont expect interns to know much at all

at least where i work with our interns*

[mortal wedge]

Ah okay, didn't realize it was for an intern position

[next plover]

i mean i dont think the interns on our blue team could tell you the difference between IP and TCP when they started im ngl

[sand patio]

i vaguely remember there being like, an optional thing on the application where you submit a project that uses some sort of api they have?

i didn't do it

[mortal wedge]

That will probably hurt, but if it's optional then it's not definitive

[sand patio]

ah, found it, according to them any candidate who did the project had their application review fast-tracked

which maybe explains why i got such a late resopnse (I applied in october)

[mortal wedge]

There's also just an unprecedented high amount of volume right now for everything

[sand patio]

yeah it's crazy

[mortal wedge]

In one pipeline I applied back in october of last year and it's still going lol

[sand patio]

😩

i applied to this before i started to save my applications somewhere, so i can't remember what i wrote for the short paragraph thing they wanted me to write about why i wanted to work there

[mortal wedge]

There's this weird awkward balance you have to do in the market right now where you have to be aware of how everything is working right now without being depressed about how everything is not working right now

[fringe sphinx]

You don't have to be super polished... just honest / genuine.

Like: "I've done lots of informal projects, school projects, online / open source projects, but I haven't worked in a professional software engineering organization and I'm excited about the opportunity to grow & learn!"

[sand patio]

makes sense

i really appreciate the advice

[fringe sphinx]

There's a little trick there too... say what you want to say, along with what they asked.

ie: the first part is about you, not them. "I've done stuff" + "I want to learn from you"

[mortal wedge]

Also, definitely come up with questions for them. It shows your interest, but it also allows you to do a "boomerang" question. Like, idk, "I noticed you mentioned serverless deployment. Do you use AWS Lambdas for that?" "We do" "Very cool. I actually worked with AWS Lambdas while doing Y"

[fringe sphinx]

I always like the open ended type questions; "Why do you like working here?" type questions

[sand patio]

alright, ill make a list.

[fringe sphinx]

The main thing, imo, is to not try to over plan a human conversation. You can prepare some "home bases" (projects/stories/etc) that you can return to, and just work them into the conversation.

[finite crag]

Opus 4,5 is a very good model. Don’t take it from me, take it from one of the best coders in the world.

[fringe sphinx]

And have one good question to ask them

[fringe sphinx]

Did you see the channel topic?

[sand patio]

gotcha. I've also had people tell me about the "STAR" method for answering behavioral questions--is that worth looking into?

[finite crag]

“People who aren’t keeping up even over the last 30 days already have a deprecated world view on this topic.”

Incredibly true. People who have never used Opus 4.5 must think it’s like every other ai

[fringe sphinx]

Your interview is tomorrow... and it's for an intern position... I think it would be counterproductive to try to prepare star answers.

[sand patio]

gotcha, are they not super relevant for an intern position, or is it just too late?

[mortal wedge]

kinda too late, lol

[fringe sphinx]

A little of both.

[sand patio]

fair enough

[fringe sphinx]

Not to stress you out, but it's more important to be relaxed and human.

[vast shoal]

It's easy to get a bit desensitized with these types of statements, because people say things like this about every other new model that comes out.

[finite crag]

“ Ai sucks at coding”

Well what model did u use?

“GPT 2 with a custom prompt” 😂

[mortal wedge]

I will echo Billy's advice on being genuine and honest. Interviews, esepcially lately, have a lot of vibe-based aspects and for an intern role.... a lot of it is going to be based off of how you feel and what it would be like to work with you as opposed to like... how much value you can deliver for Y product or something

[solid parcel]

Opus 4.5 is my favourite coding model, but it's not exactly a generational leap.

[finite crag]

No. Someone like Karpathy doesn’t

[mortal wedge]

Guys, let's please keep this chat focused on #career-advice , instead of debating AI architecture

[fringe sphinx]

Look at the channel topic. I already asked you to.

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[finite crag]

Also… just use it

[sand patio]

wait, the interview is over google meet, is it important how I dress?

[mortal wedge]

Yes

[fringe sphinx]

Wear pants.

[finite crag]

And see for yourself. Nobody is saying it’s perfect. .. yet… but it’s getting seriously good

[sand patio]

hah, alright

[mortal wedge]

You do NOT want to be the guy who gets startled, stands up, and becomes an internet sensation

[fringe sphinx]

!mute 1226658402910998528 Repeated off topic posts.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @finite crag until <t:1768260859:f> (1 hour).

[fringe sphinx]

I did this once. I was wearing shorts... but I'm not sure they knew if it was shorts or underwear.

[sand patio]

my cat got on top of my desk last time and started knocking stuff over, i should probably avoid that this time.

[mortal wedge]

Dress code is generally laxer for remote interviews, but it's often still company dependent. Software/tech tends to have lower dress code in general, but assuming you still have your camera on I'd at least wear like.... a buttoned shirt for instance

Typical advice applies, don't wear printed shirts with offensive logos, blah blah blah

[mortal wedge]

Was it with coworkers or an interview? Have the coworkers ever let you live it down?

[solid parcel]

General advice is identify the standard dress code for the company in question, and go one step up from there.

[mortal wedge]

OR were you lucky and you have seniority so they only talk about it behind your back 😄

[fringe sphinx]

But, general advice on zoom/meet meetings:

1. Lighting - dark rooms are bad
2. elevate the camera to eye level-ish... not looking up your nose
3. iphones have better cameras than most laptops
4. headphones and a good mic make all the difference

I take most work calls from my phone now... camera quality is so much better.

[fringe sphinx]

coworkers and a vendor, but it got laughs.

[solid parcel]

I've had virtual interviews where I've been scurrying around the house beforehand, finding where the light was good and then stacking my laptop up on books to get a good angle and height 😆 First impressions matter

[mortal wedge]

Do a test call beforehand on the same app with a friend, make suire there aren't weird login issues/sound issues/etc. While it understandably happens you don't want to interview for a tech position and get stuck with technical difficulties

[vast shoal]

It'll happen all the time once you get hired though.

[long solar]

wear headphones not earbuds

[solid parcel]

Urgh, I had that happen before. Interview with an HFT place. The irony being, the latency was unbearable. 2+ seconds delay. Constantly talking over each other, signal dropping out... Bad time all round.

[mortal wedge]

That's kind of hilarious. If you were describing their infrasturcture that would cost them so much money

[long solar]

I think lighting in front of you, so your face is lit up, is better than lighting behind you, which makes your face look dark in comparison. also I think warm lighting might be better than cool

[mortal wedge]

Fire up google meet, see how you look

[solid parcel]

It was horrendous 😆 Glad I didn't get it in hindsight, I'd have burnt out

I couldn't read them at all because of it, either. Does that blank look mean I need to expand more on my answer? Have you even heard my response yet? Has any of it got through to you?! Who knows?...

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, that's a mood. I've definitely been pretty miserable after some job interviews, but usually the more miserable the interview the happier I can be in hindsight. I'll never forget applying for an ML position and being asked to write complex SQL queries in my head along with transforming form base 3 to base 7 and being yelled at for being off by 1 or 2 and not mentioning the quotation marks in the query.

My mood was in the dirt that day but now it's a funny story instead of a missed opportunity

[next plover]

i got asked if i ever saw the matrix

[long solar]

lmao

[solid parcel]

Guy I know interviewed with xAI. They terminated his second interview when he blanked on the fact he could use a bitwise operation to do something more efficiently. He dodged a bullet there!

[mortal wedge]

Given a certain level of technical expertise/proficiency, interviewing really is just like... a people skills thing. Given a person that can output 10 carrots per plot who people can easily get along with versus 11 carrots per plot but the person is standoffish they'll go with the 10

[long solar]

have any of us actually ever been asked our "biggest weakness"

[mortal wedge]

Yes. I hate that question

[next plover]

yes

[long solar]

"I get angry easily" loll

[next plover]

i dont mind it tbh

[mortal wedge]

imo it's a stupid and unfair question and it's not like you can say "What's the biggest weakness in your organization" in response

[solid parcel]

That goes for both sides, too! I've heard toooo many stories of people getting awful interviewers. I've seen a lot be completely thrown by it when it happens with FAANG interviewers, largely because there's such a halo effect around those orgs.

[fringe sphinx]

I care too much.

[long solar]

cop out answer is public speaking

[next plover]

they want to know how critical of yourself you are, they dont care about your issues

[mortal wedge]

"Bullets"

"As in indented non-numbered lists, or fired from a gun?"

"Yes"

[long solar]

bordering on the cliche "I'm a perfectionist"

[next plover]

if you say something like "I work too hard" they know you are not a good fit because that is just insane

[solid parcel]

The way I probe for culture issues is to ask why the position opened up. Are they expanding the team? Backfilling someone who left? It's usually a good way to open up more of a conversation about team and org culture and expectations.

[long solar]

"I do too good of a job for my own sake"

[next plover]

"im a perfectionist"

[long solar]

"I increase shareholder value by too much"

[next plover]

LOL

[solid parcel]

The honest answer for me to biggest weakness is likely estimating... It's an absolute nightmare in tech. Not usually the fault of the tech, either. It's all the process and policy blockers you don't see coming.

[mortal wedge]

That's the honest answer I give as opposed to my more honest answer I don't give, lol

[long solar]

"I'm unskilled at visual basic"

[next plover]

"i hate microsoft"

[solid parcel]

I really like to segue discussions of weaknesses into a brief conversation about how I deal with them. E.g. if I mention process and policy being the main difficulty with estimating, I'd expand by mentioning how I manage stakeholders and cross team engagement, juggle shifting priorities etc. If you're thoughtful, you can do a lot of steering in most (sadly not all...) interviews.

Same if they ask about a technology I've not worked with much. My goto answer is usually 'My expertise lies more in X, Y and Z, though I am currently upskilling in A"

[mortal wedge]

The real answer I don't give is that I have a lot of integrity. Which means if my boss is asking me to lie to the company or other stakeholders at the company, I will refuse to do so. I will also not do well in situations where I know my boss and others are lying to others in the company or the public. (Bear in mind, I'm in regulated medtech. Me lying about project safety/results to the public also exposes me to personal liability)

I've given that answer twice in interviews. The first the interview went pretty favorably and he saw that as a green flag. The second.... the interviewer got extremely defensive and basically shouted me out of the room. Haven't brought it up since

[long solar]

that's insane

[next plover]

i wish i could afford to not have a job

[solid parcel]

Eesh, sounds like a big bullet dodged

[mortal wedge]

I just say "difficulty estimating task duration extensions due to unforeseen issues, so I build in a time buffer now"

[long solar]

the company was enron

[solid parcel]

Heh, doesn't everyone?

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, some people have helped me see that it's a bullet dodged now. But I was a unicorn for that position otherwise and not getting that positoin really hurt but

[solid parcel]

There are some answers and phrases that will get any engineer who has been around for the slightest period of time nodding and smiling in agreement. I usually try and slip a few in, it's a great way to build rapport and show a shared understanding. Grumbling about Jira, for example 😆

[mortal wedge]

Haha, yeah. Same here. I grumble about the FDA submission process and regulatory audits. As a way to flex working in those environments (also it's genuinely tedious af)

Spend 20% of your time doing something and 80% of your time documenting it

[solid parcel]

It's a great way to shift the dynamic toward a conversation between peers rather than the slightly interrogatory tone interviews can sometimes take on. A way of signalling 'I've been around a bit, we've felt the same pain, we'll get on just fine'

Interviewing is definitely a skill, haha. I see so many capable engineers in much lower positions than they could occupy, solely because they haven't put time into learning how to sell themselves effectively. It's a completely different skill to the engineering work (albeit an ability to sell and persuade certainly becomes more valuable the higher you climb).

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, it's taking me a minute to learn that lesson.

[fringe sphinx]

I don't like your answer because it focuses on some hypothetical negative situation without showing how you'd defuse it before it reached that point. There's no reason to have to present some hypothetical case where you'd disobey someone... you could have handled it by shifting it to a problem solving situation (assume that the boss didn't understand the nuance of what they were asking, and take the moment to educate them and collaborate with a more honest communication strategy)

[pure raft]

oh wow that's awesome, good to know! thank you so much, its good to get everyone's view on this for sure, everything else I feel pretty strong on

[solid parcel]

If you're going for certain orgs, I'd also massively recommend seeing if you can find the specific criteria they mark you against, and watch a couple of mocks run by ex engineers from that org. They can be fantastic to inform your approach.

[pure raft]

i have a connection to someone who currently works for a faang company, i'm hanging with them i think before the end of feb and i'm going to hit them with this

[solid parcel]

You can also find a ton of the kind of thing I mentioned here online. YouTube, Blind and so on... Tons of resources.

[pure raft]

yeah 1000%, ive seen some of that content pop up on my feed on youtube, mocks etc, i'm always weird with that because i wonder how real that kind of stuff is-i feel my strongest points by far are my soft skills and I'm weird because i love communicating between the tech side and the non tech side, but some of those mock contents ive always wondering how accurate they were, but i appreciate you so much i cant say enough how many gems youve dropped on me

[solid parcel]

That point about accuracy is why I recommend specifically finding ones that are lead by ex engineers from that org 🙂 Most of the time they're doing it because they have experience leading interviews for recruitment, so it's about as close a look as you can get. Obviously even better if you can confirm that they actually led interviews when they were at the org, you know what the internet can be like xD

[pure raft]

OH TRUE WOW DUHHHHH

[barren lotus]

i love how companies are all looking for "good communicators" and people who are clear and succinct and then their job descriptions look like this:

[vapid violet]

There is a reason they are looking

[barren lotus]

you know what's the worst thing about this?

i actually have literally everything in this keyword spam

but im not going to get an interview

[fringe sphinx]

You know you're six degrees of separation from everyone on earth.

Maybe even less, if same country. Stalk them on LinkedIn, etc

Find any conferences they're going to

[barren lotus]

this is at most 3 degrees of separation away, this company is my university's hospital

[fringe sphinx]

Fake an illness 😉

[vapid violet]

"Doctor I know I myself am not a doctor, but I have been doing my research. I think the best course of action is to prescribe me some rehabilitation by working a Job in the IT department."

[barren lotus]

I can't, I actually can't force myself to go up to a person on LinkedIn to tell them how good I am

and the JD is way too vague for me to work from

[fringe sphinx]

Instead of "telling them how good you are", try to get a meeting or lunch or phone call or coffee chat to learn more about the department/etc. Lead with curiosity, not "pitching you".

[barren lotus]

it's more of connecting with people on linkedin

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, no.. use linkedin to figure out how to get to them... then work your real world network

[barren lotus]

that's the thing

"connecting to people on linkedin" is my main problem

[fringe sphinx]

wdym?

[barren lotus]

i dont know how to cold call people

[fringe sphinx]

That's not what I mean here tho:

Use linkedin to understand the "graph": how to go from you to someone in your Universities hospital IT department.

Maybe it's not even linkedin, maybe it's asking your profs or people you know.

You should end up looking like this:

[barren lotus]

i can't do this for every vacancy

[fringe sphinx]

But, for some?

Especially within your Uni

[barren lotus]

i guess?

like, i kid you not, my main social network is github

[mortal wedge]

Makes sense. To be honest, what I wrote was more of a blunt and direct version of my thoughts. There wasn't any room for explanation or leadup. With the comapny that flipped out it was more along the lines of me asking "what does your company do (in terms of processes) that help ensure that the statements made to the public are accurate. " (That's what I got hit with the "What in the hell does that mean?" line)

Either way, I don't want to be at a company where I am forced to be a whisteblower or just keep things hush hush. But it's a very real problem in my field. I don't know how to evaluate if a company I'll be at is doing something like that, but if anyone has any ideas I'd love to know.

(I'm sure not just my field too and it's something my mom has dealt with. Her job was to make sure that companies were complying with all related ecological regulations, and many assumed she is just someone they'd hire to rubber stamp everything and lie to regulatory agencies on their behalf)

I do think anyone needs to be careful with their answer to "what is your biggest weakness". It can't be something that's too real/big and represents a real liability to the business. Needs to be smaller, genuine, and easier to speak to with regards to how you're mitigating it

[barren lotus]

like?

my go-to is that I can be careless at times, and my mitigation strategy is to writes lots and lots of tests

[mortal wedge]

That's perfect, tbh. I've given that sometimes I will complete a task like I'm used to doing it as previous roles instead of company specific methods, but now I make sure to review comapny specific documentation ahead of time or get clarification from my manager

[barren lotus]

I see

[mortal wedge]

The one I'm using now is that I can be bad at estimating timelines for projects due to unforeseen difficulties, so I build in some wiggle room to account for it

[barren lotus]

that's basically everyone lol

have you ever seen a project that has gone according to plan and finish on time?

[mortal wedge]

No

Just don't give an answer like "I have no weaknesses" or "My biggest weakness is corporate embezzlement"

even if you believe them

[barren lotus]

you jest, but my parents are the "I have no weaknesses" kind of people

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, it's only a half joke. Some people give that answer and regardless if it's true or not it reads as worse than a copout answer it reads no self awareness/being full of themselves

[barren lotus]

the real challenge is answering "what is your strength"

[mortal wedge]

That's really just a far better interview question imo

But both are common, so best be prepared to have an answer for both

[barren lotus]

there is no way to answer "what is your strength" without either sounding like you are boasting or sounding like you have no strengths

[smoky quest]

so how did it go?

[mortal wedge]

It's really hard to answer when humility has been drilled into your head either culturally or whatever

[smoky quest]

What do you want to be known for?

[barren lotus]

yea

[mortal wedge]

If you mean my interview, I think it went really well and that I'm moving to the next stage!

[barren lotus]

i want to not be known

[smoky quest]

yes! I feel invested after talking about the prep so much

[barren lotus]

ok i guess i want to be known as the emergency contact when shit hits the fan

[smoky quest]

so why would they hire you?

[barren lotus]

so uhhh reliability

[smoky quest]

sounds like you got something to talk about your strengths

[barren lotus]

yea

in every single job ive done, internship or part time retail, i can be trusted to be on-call when you need someone to do a job, i may not do it perfectly, but you can trust that i will do my best to complete the task

[smoky quest]

here you go

[barren lotus]

i dont think i can do that when im older, but for now, my youth affords me the luxury of doing this

[mortal wedge]

Ah okay. Yeah, it worked well I think. They really just have a device and software onboard the device, nothing else regarding infrastructure. I wound up not emailing them. Studied up on the topics, presented my work in a domain agnostic way and was able to speak to where I would map their algorithms/processes/hardware onto the pipeline I owned previously. He did let slip I was the first person he interviewed and the process would take some time, sounds like next stage is I get my skills vetted by the team, then if all goes well....

I'm thinking I do some target research and put a quick project together, so I can say while I haven't done X professionally, here's how I would go about it at your company.

idk though it feels less pressure. I'm much more comfortable with direct knowledge/skills tests.

And I'm pretty sure the scope/context of interviews like that are "does this person have expertise or are they full of it"

[barren lotus]

i guess another strength i have is that when im faced with a technical challenge, i genuinely know that i can solve it. like, i have faced enough problems in the past to know that i can eventually solve a technical challenge

[smoky quest]

congrats!

[mortal wedge]

Thanks!

[smoky quest]

yeah too many people lie or try to make up stuff

[smoky quest]

nice! Having skills and trusting them is super helpful

[mortal wedge]

I think there is an inevitable amount of truth stretching on resumes (and like what's exaggeration vs assertiveness), but I think the sin is in fundamentally misrepresenting your ability to do the job/your capabilities. Because that means not only will you get fired it will probably blow back on at least one person in the process who vouched for you

[smoky quest]

that's just marketing vs lie

[barren lotus]

there are stuff that people tell me that i dont trust but i put it onto my resume too, like the quote that the migration script i wrote is worth $400k

[mortal wedge]

That said, when I was on the other side of the interview table and was interviewing someone who said they had strong expertise in neural networks and I asked him if he could explain what one was to someone without a technical background he said he'd have to look it up in a textbook

I was livid

[smoky quest]

yeah, if you claim X and you can't explain it or have to think super long about a concrete example where you did it, that's not a great start

[mortal wedge]

I've struggled with what to say on my resume for things where the advice we have is to give numbers but we may not have that data anymore. Like I know that I've worked with a data lake of somewhere between 75k and 200k records. I don't know the precise number

I think I just hedged at 130k

[barren lotus]

funnily enough i can probably do that (i have done that before) but i wouldnt claim to have a strong expertise in neural network

[mortal wedge]

If he said "was familiar with" or "have used" I would have been more forgiving

Part of it is definitely that I'm a big nerd and love to nerd out on topics, so get excited when someone claims a strong expertise in a subject I'm also knowledgeable/interested about. Then it's such a whiplash when I get an answer like that

I mean, him trying to bs would probably have made me even madder but

[vast shoal]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[vast shoal]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[still condor]

!warn @atomic nebula Please read our rules. This is not the place to look for jobs.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @atomic nebula.

[sturdy cloak]

hey any one in here who works as a data scientist or ml eng?

[balmy mural]

If there were, what's the question you'd like to ask?

[sturdy cloak]

what the stuff to focus more on to land the first job or internship

[balmy mural]

If you're wondering what specific tech/tools to learn, have a look at some job descriptions in your area. Look at what gets mentioned a lot and see if you can make a project using it

[sturdy cloak]

here is my cv tell me what do u think can make me go a head

[sturdy cloak]

i tried to find some thing with this but i didnt get any results

[balmy mural]

Rename your Work Experience to Projects, since none of those count as work experience in my opinion, but are challenges/competitions.
Then order them as Summary, Education, Projects, Additional Information
I don't really have more specific advice than that since I don't do hiring and I don't really work in a data science or related field, but I'm sure someone else can give more specific pointers

[sturdy cloak]

ok thanks

[fringe sphinx]

You mention "Zindi", but I've never heard of it. Perhaps list it in additional information , rather than in Summary.

[sturdy cloak]

well it is a screenshot but in the pdf there is a link inside it

it has 100k users or so

[fringe sphinx]

Second, don't "tell" them the things you know... put it in the experience. Just listing "sklearn" in Summary is the wrong place - put it where you used it.

For what it's worth, the summary is the least important part of a resume.

[sturdy cloak]

what about the projects part what do u think is the best way to immprove on that

[fringe sphinx]

Nothing in those projects shows what you did or used.

[sturdy cloak]

like what the specific model i used?

[fringe sphinx]

Or even what your software stack was.

[sturdy cloak]

it is tabular data so it pandas numpy sklearn and xgboost catboost or so

ok i will worrk on that

[fringe sphinx]

In other words, you say in your summary that you know sklearn. But, it's not clear where you used it. You say you know xgboost, but where?, etc

[sturdy cloak]

ok got it

[vapid jay]

Any senior dev doing freelencing?
I am a dev too and feel lost so please reply here just help me out

[sand patio]

@fringe sphinx interview went really well!

[fringe sphinx]

While it's fresh in your mind, could you share some of the questions?

[sand patio]

he asked about one of the projects I did (it was my static site generator), to explain it from the bottom up, and then he asked how I would turn it into a SAAS offering

he also asked about how I would do TLS

he asked about a prior experience of mine, and then to tell him about a time I've had a disagreement on a code review

[fringe sphinx]

Nice, sounds like a good interviewer.

[sand patio]

yeah it was a nice conversation, chill guy

he said the questions I asked were great too 👀

[shut cloak]

hello

[regal axle]

I have a two hour interview later today 🙏🤞
Requires a "plain text editor". 🤷

Anyways ,,, hope it goes well

[icy coral]

Must prepare the differences between generators vs iterators.
😜

[regal axle]

One is a string. The other is fake cleanup protocol that allows the caller to interrupt a process

[icy coral]

Selected 😁

[fringe sphinx]

!ban 1459821561056989216 Cross-channel spam.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @little bay permanently.

[next plover]

theyve been mass DMing people as well i think there is a modmail thing for it

[regal axle]

Ah yes, the CEO himself is blessing us!

[warm gale]

Hello experts

I need to clarify a few things that have been bothering me for the past few days

[peak halo]

if it's career-related, go ahead.

[warm gale]

1.I have completed learning most of the bash script concepts and built a system monitoring artifact in linux.
2.i am learning rust right now... Learning about System core.
3.after completing the system core. I am planning to learn the Ai core.

I need feedback whether learning and building in these are good or not. How I can grow efficiently.

Would you mind helping me

[peak halo]

what is your goal for doing all this?

[warm gale]

System + Ai Engineer and to be a proper software engineer

[jagged locust]

Out of curiosity (doing myself loads of interviews these days, trying to transition into another field) do they ask about typical cryptographic algorithms you might know? Or more of a overview of how TLS works in general?

[next plover]

i would also look at C as its lower level / more integrated with the kernal than rust

[warm gale]

Should I focus on C then..?

[next plover]

depends, do you need to understand low level stuff for AI?

actually, what is your end goal

software engineering , AI related stuff or something like systems / embedded programming

[warm gale]

Right now I am a 2nd year student, and I want to be placed in a good company and learn as much as possible

Ai related and systems

[next plover]

then i suppose it doesnt matter much if you use Rust or C as long as you can grasp the lower level concepts: stack / heap, memory allocation pointers, references etc

[warm gale]

What is ect..?

[next plover]

i was just listing a few examples, there are more things in low level langs than just that

i meant "etc" my bad lol

[warm gale]

Ook. 😁

Am I on the right track....?

[true harness]

it is certainly a good idea to get a wide base of experiences. I will say that "AI and systems engineering" is very very broad, so you will probably need to narrow it down somehow. that could be through doing a few internships and seeing what you like, doing some projects, etc

[fringe sphinx]

If you're learning new things, then you're on the right track. Everyone here knows different things.

[warm gale]

👍

Thankyou everybody

[sand patio]

it was for an intern position, so nothing too complex. they didn't ask about anything like that.

they just asked how I would "make an HTTP site HTTPS"

[next plover]

import openssl

[solid parcel]

I'd advise thinking more deeply about what you're actually targeting. The overlap between AI and systems engineering is pretty small. Usually involving tuning in order to optimise training and model serving. So you might be doing things like fiddling with schedulers in order to eek out every last bit of performance possible.

I'd recommend chatting with engineers, researching online, paying attention to what parts of what you're learning you actually enjoy... As others have touched on, having a breadth of knowledge is no bad thing, and it makes sense to try out different areas particularly when you're starting out. Best way to learn what you actually want to pursue!

You might find the following an interesting set of challenges for Rust 🙂
https://fly.io/dist-sys/

[regal axle]

I killed it. But I don't know in what direction? Good or bad. I have no idea. LOL 💀

I answered their questions in the not expected manner. But they were happy with my answers. So they say. Well, they told me I would hear back later today. So I will know pretty quick lol

[regal axle]

*Technical qestions

[fringe sphinx]

That's a great sign. Don't be surprised if they dont get back to you today, and don't take it personally... people often want to get back quickly, but have to get approvals.

[sturdy cloak]

Quick question: I wanted to land an internship in ML engineering, but the opportunities where I live are close to nothing, so I tried applying abroad, but I ik that makes my chances of landing something very small, so i wanted to ask if anyone has experience in landing a job while working from a different country

[fringe sphinx]

Can you share some of the questions they asked?

[regal axle]

Small company. Today is possible. But yea, I am fine waiting a few days. I know the drill

[merry ledge]

how do new grads get hired besides nepotism? Ive been top 1% GPA performance my whole life and I have a strong resume yet nobody will even interview me?

[fringe sphinx]

That's quite the loaded question.

[fringe sphinx]

First, "networking" != "nepotism"

[regal axle]

Do you have either of those things? GPA doesn't really ,,, matter for getting a job. Very rare that it does. And is your resume good? Mind sending it to this channel for us to take a look!?

Sorry, GPA above a certain point. A low GPA might mean something. But not a high one. And even then ,,, 🤷

[merry ledge]

I have two internships on my resume and 3 complex personal projects

id rather not send the resume for dox reasons

unless everyone else is networking and im not, i dont see how CS isn't cooked

[fringe sphinx]

Have you graduated?

[merry ledge]

in the spring, 1 year early

[regal axle]

Having good things to put on your resume and having a good resume are not the same thing. Please try to remove any personal information and send it in!

[fringe sphinx]

You graduated last spring?

[merry ledge]

i will be graduating this spring having only spent 3 years in college

[fringe sphinx]

New graduate hiring cycles are weird. And, for full-time positions, it really ramps up in January ime.

[radiant vortex]

Were you able to get contacts from the internships you did?

[fringe sphinx]

And, it's a crowded market, so it might be hard to cut through the noise until you're done - not everyone is landing positions pre-graduation, partly because there's people available to start today

[merry ledge]

i have coworkers but idk what to do with that

do you have advice on how I should be applying? linkedin stuff is either all fake scam companies or 1000+ applicants. I don't want to apply to in person campus events because I really do not like the area I live in and want to relocate to anywhere. Ive already applied to all the big companies I can find.

[solid parcel]

LinkedIn is absolutely not just scams. I've landed every role I've had thanks to LinkedIn, and have had recruiters from orgs like AWS reach out to interview me. Granted, there's a lot more noise to cut through given the number of AI generated applications out there, but I certainly wouldn't discount it. LinkedIn is by far the best known and largest professional networking site.

[merry ledge]

i must not know how to use it

[regal axle]

Two back to back interviews. First was giving me two data sources and I needed to figure out how the data changes over time and create a state management system for changes / updates / deletions.
They then wanted me to compare data source 1 to data source 2. But I assumed that both were going to be stored regardless of the data source and we care about how the data source changes. It was wrong in the sense that the example mock code wouldn't be able to test that. But the guy I was talking with commented on how it was more realistic way of thinking about it and my solution gave him some things to think about, about how they solved a similar problem.

The second one gave me a binary database file and told me to parse it and create a single health check on it. It was a file type I have never seen before so needed to figure out how to read the file and think about it. The challenge was more about giving me something unknown and seeing how I deal with it // problem solve. This one was more linear in terms of how I solved it. I was not as fast as I would have liked to be. But did it in timeframe. There were a few questions about the database that I never was able to answer; but that was because I used set math to get to the answer faster lol. So I was able to perform a health check without fully understanding the data. And the interviewer was happy with the solution and stopped me there.

[merry ledge]

i only get messages from advertisements and when i search jobs its just AI training hourly roles 😭

[regal axle]

linkedin is just ok. It has gotten worse in the last few years.

[regal axle]

Not all companies are hiring only for local. And if they are, the company might still be large enough to give you a chance in another location. And even if not, you can get real time feedback on yourself and your resume. I HIGHLY suggest you go. Even if you don't want to work locally

[solid parcel]

You'll get more attention on there once you've got some proper experience under your belt. If you get a decent photo, bio and headline on there, you're already most of the way to having a good profile.

[merry ledge]

im linked to my current internship company on it

no luck on linked in so far but ill keep trying

[solid parcel]

Hiring.cafe is a good site to check out

[merry ledge]

should i continue cold apps? i have no professional network to do anything else

[regal axle]

A few things. A) if you are on one of the massive agg sites, you should still apply to things that are at most 2 days old. If you are applying in the first day or 2, you still have a chance. Past that,,, forget it.
(Generalization)

B) networking is the best option. But also the slowest and hardest
C) hiring.cafe is a good site to apply with (it sends you to the first party application.)

[regal axle]

Do both at the same time. Cold apply and work on building your network. Network building is really slow

[merry ledge]

how do i build network

[regal axle]

lmao, I am moving on to the next (and last) stage🔥

[true harness]

they want you frfr

[merry ledge]

holy clutch, this has all the filters i wish linkedin had

[regal axle]

I need to respond to that email I just got and then eat some food. But I will be back if no one else answers. TLDR, events and meetups.

[regal axle]

Yea. It is a site that scrapes and not one that companies post on.

[solid parcel]

ha, yup

[merry ledge]

i don't have to scroll through posts looking for 12+ years experience this website is the promised land

I do wish i could filter for rust/C++

[regal axle]

My advice - (Still need to eat before I get to your other question) - don't limit yourself by language. You might be able to say you don't want to work in X language. But you best have a good reason for that. Language shouldn't be a focus for you in the search. If you have options ,,, sure. But not when you don't even have options

[merry ledge]

i want to go into systems so i don't want a job doing CSS

[regal axle]

Yea but language isn't what you focus on to get there is what I am saying

[solid parcel]

Generally a matter of engineers getting to know you, to like you and to rate your work. Hence it takes some time! You can sometimes leverage a loose connection like you having both gone to the same uni together as an opening when you're reaching out cold, but imo people tend to overweight the potential value of tangential connections like that. The real value generally comes from being able to leverage your closer network, and their network in turn. Having them refer you for a role, act as a bridge to other people in their network (e.g. they might be able to introduce you to someone you've been trying to get a coffee chat with), that kind of thing... The depth of a network is usually more impactful than the breadth.

[fringe sphinx]

My advice:

1. Be open minded. Worry about which job you'll take when you have choices. You'll learn from every experience, and can use that as a stepping stone.
2. Networking just means - talk to people. Go to lunch. Ask people to tell you about their careers. Ask people to tell you about their companies. Go to meetups. Join programming clubs. Go play frisbee with friends. It's not about begging for a job, it's about making connections, listening, and gently asking if they could make an intro to the next person at the next company. It's not a quick fix, but it's something you can invest time into
3. Your resume can always be better. It can always be tailored to specific jobs. Keep striving for better.
4. Learn about interviewing - be prepared. It's not just "walk in and sound smart"

[mortal wedge]

I'm really happy for you, congrats!!!!

[fleet oar]

Should i go into cybersecurity or into robotics?

[solid parcel]

Entirely depends where your interests lie. You can have an interesting and well compensated career in either

[mortal wedge]

What interests you more and what is your current background?

Cybersec will have more math involved, robotics will have more engineering/physics.

I know Python can be popular for pen testing, but if youre looking to actually design cryptographic algos it likely won't be done in python. Robotics also depends but may involve things like computer vision, embedded processing, and such. Python doesn't typically go directly onto most embedded systems due to the overhead, but if we're talking like surgical robots that would be different than like smaller things

[next plover]

what areas of cyber need math besides crypto?

i still count on my fingers and have yet to use math in my job as an analyst so its very field dependent

[bleak heron]

program analysis

[next plover]

what would this be in a security context?

[bleak heron]

are you asking what applications program analysis might have in security?

[smoky quest]

they analyze programs to find potential security issues, be it data/control flow or reachability

[next plover]

appsec?