career-advice

[visual flax]

Sounds like great advice

[sand hawk]

very true. @visual flax what made you feel behind in life btw ? personally i got a bit stoic, my destiny is not something i can control sometimes, but also, with patience you can often go back to more favorable places.. that's all i get

I'm not so afraid to feel behind, but i'm severly in pain because i see very bad people passing me because of LLMs and that is something i don't know how to deal with so far

[visual flax]

People my age are looking old, and they have children and cars. I can't even drive and I'm working towards a degree. So lots of fear is seeping in.

[leaden moss]

I want to be the first ai programming language programmer

[sand hawk]

I see. About the car driving, I read not long ago that some famous person never got his drivers license, everybody assume that it's a hard requirement but I'd say not that much. It's a cool skill to get but that's about it (and cars are polluting and crazy polluting to use). The children part is different though, i get the fear here. But then again, life is rarely a straight line

[visual flax]

No it is not. Do the best you can with what you can

[sand hawk]

@visual flax do you have some kind of goal bucket / list ? beside driving and having kids

[near ocean]

arent you mid 20s

[visual flax]

Yep, but its my perspective. Everyones grow up with a fiancee and what not. I am no where close to even being ready for a relationship.

[visual flax]

Finally graduating, and making 91k a year when I'm 28-29. Mastering chinese

[sand hawk]

I see. Mastering languages is cool too. And btw, you still have a lot of time, so if you keep making tiny progress regularly, you'll be more than fine

[vapid jay]

Try and avoid disclosing your salary. You'll be surprised how many people will be jealous. It makes sense why people in my life say : 'I earn enough'

[sand hawk]

he didn't say what currency though /s

[near ocean]

Not sharing what you make only helps employers pay people less than what theyre worth

[sand hawk]

it's a difficult question, my colleague (the liar one) brought up the topic, i could claim a bigger raise, but i'm still 15% below him and it's a horrible knowledge

people say, if your company doesn't raise you move but sometimes you just cant ( the market is weird these days )

[visual flax]

How do you guys manage to stay focused and productive alll 8 hours of your 9 to 5

[near ocean]

I dont and i doubt anyone can for the solid 8h

[fringe sphinx]

Why do you think that's what we do?

[visual flax]

Because you have to be at work for 8 hours?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, but the day isn't sitting still at a desk coding for 8 hours straight

[visual flax]

Comforting to hear

[fringe sphinx]

We take breaks. We talk to each other. We chat on whatever messaging app. We have meetings. We talk about designs with peers. We have lunch. And, occasionally we code

[visual flax]

I hope thats how it works because its so hard for me to consistently work on something. I do enjoy chatting for 10-15 minutes

[solid parcel]

The average is 4 hours of focused, productive time for white collar roles.

[visual flax]

I can do that!!

[fringe sphinx]

And then there's the days/weeks where a problem is so tasty, you forget to sleep!

[visual flax]

Is spaceX really a hard place to land a job? I hear it super stressful to work at

Also how many of these company job openings are real? I see plenty of them but none of them respond

[smoky quest]

Plenty of them are real 🙂
If they don't respond, it's most likely due to receiving other candidates that align better with the role

[solid parcel]

I'd run a mile, I've heard nothing but bad things about it. Same for xAI, I know an engineer who interviewed there recently and the process was downright antagonistic

[visual flax]

Can't say I'd do the same. I'm 1000% going to apply and work there if an opportunity is given at least work for 2-3 years if I get an entry level. Working with cutting edge technology will do wonders for my career.

[fringe sphinx]

Everywhere is hard to get a job. Cast a wide net, and worry about which one when you have choices!

[sand hawk]

the average dev says it work focused 3-4h a day. you often have stupid meetings, emails, etc that will break your attention off anyway. I can work 8h focused, if i'm on a good topic, with the right context (it's enjoyable if you organize a state of flow)

[cunning grove]

any data analyst here?

[solid parcel]

I'd advise looking into the stories of burnout, excessive hours and hostile working environments

[balmy spade]

Just be mindful that you find what you search for. Casting a wide net and learning how to interview seems more valuable than anything.

[visual flax]

I don't think anyone can refuse to work at a top company and be rational thinker.

[lusty horizon]

cap

[visual flax]

I don;t thinka anyone could say no to a 1115k salary in texas as an entry level. I know I couldn't

[solid parcel]

Ha, this is an excessively optimistic approach. There's much more to life than work. Some organisations are extremely callous in their disregard for their employees.

[visual flax]

From what I read on reddit its super exciting.

[solid parcel]

If this is your takeaway about SpaceX, I suspect you've been seeing only the anecdotes you want to see.

[visual flax]

Its honestly my dream company. To finally work on cutting edge technology, work with the brightest most hard working minds in the world to advance mankind. Idk what engineer wouldn't want that

[lusty horizon]

There's more to life then spending money there is doing nothing, Eventually you become very angry at people disturbing your doing nothing

[visual flax]

I like to imagine I'd enjoy every hour spent learning and developing something new.

I'd really love to work a job that gives me the skills to do real life projects that are also super cool like lafayette systems.

[solid parcel]

In the interest of fairness, as a follow up to my initial response to this... Yes, you're likely right. I've similarly seen anecdotes from people who absolutely love working there, largely because they get to work with very clever, motivated people to solve some very interesting and complex problems.

I'd just be careful to not let the shine of that appeal blind you to some of the downsides of the environment. Environments like that are very self-selecting, so just make sure if you're wanting to target them, you're going in eyes wide open.

[lusty horizon]

• you will reimburse me 100 percent of your savings, Updated for clarity

[balmy spade]

<@&831776746206265384> da scamz

[torpid relic]

Can anyone tell me what does it need to become a python full stack developer like python html css js django and front end framework and data base sql is that enough?

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[torpid relic]

Okay but i am saying without degree and it’s possible

[azure heart]

It's possible but WAY more challenging

[torpid relic]

In terms of what

[azure heart]

landing a job

[torpid relic]

But experience matters more than degree

[azure heart]

not necessarily in an entry level role

[torpid relic]

Okay but if i want to become py full stack developer without degree what should i learn

[azure heart]

a very specific skill that is in high demand

[torpid relic]

Like what?

[azure heart]

No idea, that's for you to find out

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh has some lists

[smoky quest]

How do you plan to achieve that?

Each job ad receives thousands of applicants, most of which with great degrees (they spent 4-5 years studying the field full time!), amazing internships and awesome projects.
Recruiters won't have time to call back everyone, so they might call the top 20 people out of thousands of applicants.
So what is your plan to reach the top 20 among thousands of people like that?

[torpid relic]

There are small companies

Very big companies will have some great competition

[azure heart]

if anything small companies have to be extra careful of who they hire

so again, without a proper college education, you have to be better than a college graduate

[torpid relic]

Not really

[azure heart]

Why ask for our advice if you think you already know?

[torpid relic]

I know people that work in microsoft and google and have no degree

[azure heart]

You would have to make a project so amazing that they will come find you

or you have to be a senior with so much experience that they don't care that you don't have a degree

[torpid relic]

I just wanna make sure which material i should learn

[azure heart]

as much as possible

[smoky quest]

why would small companies not get applicants?

[azure heart]

"I hope I find a small company where no one else applies" is a very big gamble

[torpid relic]

There’s no company that no one applis for

[smoky quest]

indeed. So both large and small companies will have tons of applicants

[azure heart]

and with the industry growing, you're only going to be competing with more and more people

almost all of which have degrees

who would you hire in that situation?

[torpid relic]

Now you you are giving degree a very big value as if without degree you can’t find a job

[azure heart]

I never said that you couldn't. I said it's highly unlikely

also degrees do have big value

that's why they exist

[smoky quest]

That's a non sequitur.
What we think doesn't matter. What matters is your plan to compete with other applicants

[azure heart]

Who would you hire if you were trying to hire a programmer? The self-taught programmer or the college graduate?

[torpid relic]

Maybe you have high skills and self taught

[azure heart]

higher skills than a college graduate?

why? how?

[smoky quest]

how do you get there and demonstrate them?

[vast shoal]

If you want to compete with someone who has a degree, you need to bring a credential of your own that is at least as impressive as a degree.

[indigo canopy]

Self-learning and becoming successful

[azure heart]

How do you hope to gain more skills than someone who spends 4+ years working on their skills full time as a student?

[torpid relic]

You think everything university teaches you help you in your job?

[azure heart]

Can you honestly say to yourself "If I spend as much time as a college graduate learning on my own, I will be more skilled than them"

[smoky quest]

most of it does

[azure heart]

Yes, it's very much about preparing for a full career

[torpid relic]

Not really

[azure heart]

Why do you say that? What experience do you have?

[torpid relic]

I studies in an american university why like they used to teach as algebra and calculus?

And some electives like history, english, arabic?

[smoky quest]

algebra and calculus will be useful for your career

[azure heart]

If you don't think they will be, then you're already behind

[smoky quest]

Communication will be one of the most important, yet underrated skill you will need throughout your career

[azure heart]

Again if you're going to be so dismissive of our advice, why even ask it? You clearly already know and we're not going to change your mind

[vast shoal]

Calculus helped me land the traineeship that led me to my current 10+ year career in fintech

So I'd say it was pretty helpful

[smoky quest]

Also in case, there are well known studies from the BLS (and across other countries), that directly link the level of income with your education level

[azure heart]

So yes, it's possible to do this without a degree but those cases are extremely rare

if you're willing to spend 4+ years of your life hoping that you can be the rare exception, go for it

[mortal jay]

Hi everyone! I'm Adel, a Python backend developer with experience building secure and scalable systems using Django, FastAPI, Flask, Redis, Docker, and PostgreSQL. I’m currently looking for a Python developer role and would appreciate any leads or opportunities.
Thanks!

[vast shoal]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vast shoal]

This channel is for career advice, it's not to be used as a job board

[solid parcel]

Are you familiar with survivorship bias? It's worth looking up if not.

You're completely right that you can get into the field without a degree, and I would concur that experience matters more than a degree. However, the hardest part is getting your foot in the door in the first place. It's a really rough time to try and get into tech right now; there are tons of applicants, and few jobs going around.

A degree is not essential, but it's an easy rough heuristic for recruiters and hiring managers to use. If you've had 1,000 applications for a role and can scrap half of them by discarding ones without a degree, then even if that only marginally improves the average quality of the candidates, it makes sense to do.

It's worth noting that I say all of the above as someone who got into the industry without a degree... The hiring landscape is unrecognisable compared to a few years back.

[torpid relic]

Yeah the hardest part is the first step but will it be good if someone without a degree lands his first job for free like training? Would that be a good beginning for gaining experience

[vast shoal]

Even if you work without a salary, taking on an unpaid intern still costs the employer money in terms of allocating resources and training. They are still not going to take just anyone, it has to be someone that is likely to be worth the investment.

So even if you find an unpaid internship position, you'll still have to compete with other people for it, and it's back to the same issue as before.

[near ocean]

Unpaid internships or training periods are pointless and useless imho
They accomplish nothing, why would you ever take them?
In my mind, if you apply to a job and have unpaid work on your CV you're just showing me you probably weren't good enough for your previous employer to pay you, so why should anyone else pay you for work? Even interns get paid

[gilded arrow]

you can't really assess what somebody can do from a line in the CV

and doing unpaid work says more about the employer than the employee

[near ocean]

It still says some things about the employee too, mainly that they werent good enough to find paid work

[gilded arrow]

that makes sense when you look for paid work

[near ocean]

Everyone looks for paid work, no one on this green earth works for free

[gilded arrow]

not everyone

[sand hawk]

i went to college, and if i may I have a few things to say:

college courses will teach you interesting, even advanced ideas (relational algebra, compilers, modeling, algorithms), that's for the problem solving part

but a career is different, a company is not a college lab, there's more cruft, more fatigue, more politics, money pressure... and it makes things very different.

for instance, college doesn't make you fix your previous project every 6 months, in a company you keep doing that, it will change how you program (you make smaller and simpler programs and avoid creating too many new ideas, unlike in college). companies deadline can move, you thought you had 6 months, now you have only 4 because a new priority is coming.. so you will have to cut your new feature down, and keep extension points for later when you can resume the work. in college you can have time to learn and explore new topics, on a job, a lot less so, and you never know if what you're learning will help meeting deadlines, so you become sharper at evaluating how long you will explore solutions to avoid starting something that won't finish.

lastly, ability to create a system that is coherent and understandable by anybody (conventions, naming, solution patterns etc) it's one critical factor in team velocity and joy

maybe some college teach that, but mine almost didn't ...

[near ocean]

No one is joining a tech company out of the goodness of their heart bro

[sand hawk]

i worked so long for free

[near ocean]

You've got to be incredibly privileged to not have to work and those people arent on discord asking for advice lmao

[gilded arrow]

tech companies are not the whole world bro

[sand hawk]

money is an issue for me, it creates so much friction and emotional issues in teams

[near ocean]

This is #career-advice in the python server, the context is python jobs

[sand hawk]

but yeah real life requires eating and heating so we need money

[gilded arrow]

yes but you've said that if somebody had an unpaid internship then they aren't probably good enough, which is not true

[near ocean]

I used "probably" for a reason
Obviously its not a certainty, but why wouldnt they be able to find paid work? Chances are they just arent a good candidate for one reason or another, a recruiter isnt gonna waste time investigating

[gilded arrow]

of course you need money to live, but working for free doesn't cancel your worth

[near ocean]

It kinda does when you give your "worth" out for free

What are the reasons someone would resort to unpaid work

[gilded arrow]

why wouldnt they be able to find paid work?
because paid work doesn't grows on trees and not everything you want to do has to have a price tag attached to it

[sand hawk]

yes i agree with you, that's what i tried to say above. when i worked for free, i even provided more value because i had more leverage to explore solutions to find the best and work as fast as possible. at my current job every body lies and waste time doing the minimal amount of work

[gilded arrow]

you don't give your worth out for free, you do what you wanna do

[near ocean]

Crazy statement

[gilded arrow]

in an capitalist utopia, yes

[near ocean]

How about the real world where we live in

[gilded arrow]

in the real world you can still do things you wanna do, besides making some asshole rich

[near ocean]

Are you not making the same assholes rich by working for free?

[gilded arrow]

far from it

[near ocean]

I hope youre not getting confused with volunteering cause im not letting it go that easily

[solid parcel]

This is a pretty idealistic take given the current state of the market. With internships in short supply, I could absolutely see decent students/grads opting to accept an unpaid one if offered. Is it ideal? No. Is it likely a pragmatic choice, if deciding between an unpaid internship and no internship at all? I would say so, yes.

[gilded arrow]

unpaid internships and unpaid work and volunteering are distinct

[near ocean]

Ok good, so you are making some asshole rich then, for free

[fringe sphinx]

Creatives have an expression for this: "F*ck you, pay me" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U

[gilded arrow]

you have a narrow view of this world

[fringe sphinx]

That video is absolute gold.

[gilded arrow]

not only rich assholes need work done

[near ocean]

What other type of work is there where some asshole isnt made rich, come on enlighten us

The context is tech jobs using python

[fringe sphinx]

Well, I think you're going a little far... they could be a perfectly nice person you're doing free work for.

[torpid relic]

But working for free has advantages like if its your first job you get to know the nature of work, improve your communication skills

[near ocean]

Like what

[fringe sphinx]

In the US, interns working for free is generally not something any reputable company would allow.

I would never assign anything important to a volunteer. (even if I were to accept one)

[gilded arrow]

I agree with you when you say unpaid internship is a cancer, but you've said that an unpaid internship on a CV is making the candidate less worthy, this is what I'm talking about
Vou can put on CV relevant things you did outside a tech company, because tech companies are not the whole world

and not all internships are the same - in some you work, in some you learn useful things

[near ocean]

The context is tech jobs in python bro, how many times do i have to say this
The OP is asking whether unpaid work is good experience to get into the industry
The answer is "its not"

People will wonder why they cant justify their pay and the answer is they cant justify not getting paid

[torpid relic]

I think companies in usa are way more difficult than in some like in middle east

[near ocean]

Are unpaid internships your only option? Why cant you find a paid internship

[gilded arrow]

The context is tech jobs in python bro
what I say is true in this context

[fringe sphinx]

I don't think all internships are the same, even paid internships: I've seen people bring in interns and then never give them any true work experience. It pisses me off.

[near ocean]

Things outside of the tech industry are kind of by definition not python related???

[fringe sphinx]

But I get it: it's ahrd to assimilate someone for a few months.

[solid parcel]

The current state of the job market isn't exactly rife with opportunities for students and new grads

[near ocean]

People still find paid work

And this might be elitist but not everyone can or deserves to work these jobs

[torpid relic]

Free work serves as training for a beginner whos new to job market so it prepares you for working paid job

[solid parcel]

Yes and no, take the UK stats for example. Comp Sci grads currently have the highest unemployment rate out of any degree, at 9.7%. It's overly simplistic to say 'people still find paid work'. The fact is that in tech many more than usual are struggling to do that.

[gilded arrow]

People will wonder why they cant justify their pay
Maybe in wour world you need to justify pay, in mine I don't need to justify the things I do and the pay is my concern not anybody else's

[near ocean]

Free work doesnt do that, why would anyone entrust a "volunteer" with anything important

[gilded arrow]

People still find paid work
not all people
and just because somebody wants to pay you for a job doesn't mean you can't do something else

[sand hawk]

by the way, do you guys see more python job ads these days ?

[white relic]

more than what?

like, more than 10 years ago?

or more than other languages?

[solid parcel]

In the context of the workplace, there's some truth in this. Though it's worth bearing in mind that unpaid, voluntary work (often from highly capable engineers) is at the core of a huge amount of the tech ecosystem. Linux, Kubernetes, Python and so on.

[fringe sphinx]

That's a bit unfair tho... OSS is not what we're talking about.

[near ocean]

I would sooner suggest someone pick up OSS work than unpaid internships, wouldnt you?

If their goal is to work a normal office job a candidate contributing to OSS is much more attractive than someone working for free at a tech company

[white relic]

hmm, I'm not sure about that.
Like, there's different degrees of "contributing to OSS"

[near ocean]

Taking and encouraging others to take unpaid work as a foot in the door hurts everyone
We want people to be paid what theyre worth and this will stop if people realize they can take advantage of desperation

[white relic]

I wouldn't encourage anyone to take an unpaid internship.
But I don't think "find an OSS project to contribute to" is extremely actionable/helpful advice, either.

[near ocean]

If the choice is between the two, i think it is

[gilded arrow]

Taking and encouraging others to take unpaid work as a foot in the door hurts everyone
this I agree with
I don't agree with saying that someone who did that is less good than someone who didn't do that

[near ocean]

Why not?

I think its fairly obvious that good engineers generally get paid more than bad ones, its not a 100% but it's not completely uncorrelated either

[gilded arrow]

this will stop if people realize they can take advantage of desperation
people know they are taken advantage off, that don't cancel the rent or the need for food

[near ocean]

🤨

[white relic]

I don't see a lot of resumes with either of those things (unpaid internships or volunteer OSS contributions) so I guess I'm making a frame challenge.

[near ocean]

Isnt it illegal in the US? It is in the UK

[white relic]

At entry level, that is.

[near ocean]

I dont understand, how do you pay rent with an unpaid position

[solid parcel]

@near ocean Huh, I'd assumed you were US based. Hi fellow Brit

[near ocean]

I "work" in london, immigrant tho

In quotes cause this barely counts as a job, clicking my lil buttons on my lil laptop

[solid parcel]

Gotcha. I'm London based too. What do you actually do day to day?

[near ocean]

I wrestle with py2.7 and other legacy tech older than i am

[solid parcel]

He, fun. My org was hiring for an assembler dev recently 😆 I feel you on the legacy tech.

[near ocean]

I work in sportsbetting so im fully on the immoral, outdated side of tech

[gilded arrow]

you can be taken advanced of with paid positions too

[solid parcel]

I'm in banking, I'll see you in hell!

[near ocean]

You'd think they'd have better tech but these people are too risk averse, ironically

[white relic]

sorry, I apparently can't engage in this convo until my internet recovers

[gilded arrow]

ironically
it's not ironic at all

[near ocean]

Paid positions pay for things

[gilded arrow]

sometimes not enough

[near ocean]

Its never enough if you ask me but its still something, i dont have to worry about being homeless or hungry or cold

[gilded arrow]

that's because you're lucky
there are people working for not enough

[solid parcel]

I'm just counting my blessings that I'm around London right now. UK salaries may still be a bit rubbish, but at least we're in the area of the country with the jobs.

[near ocean]

I am lucky but i put in my fair share of work lol, this didnt just fall onto my lap

Im 2 degrees 4 year exp deep here

[gilded arrow]

the idea I wanted to convey is that working for free doesn't make you less capable

[balmy mural]

Something interesting. There was a discussion here at some point but for American numbers. CS grads also had the highest unemployment, but someone posted a study showing that CS grads also had the least underemployment. That kind of tells me that CS grads are just more willing to sit without a job than start a job they are overqualified for when compared to other degrees.
Obviously this could be wrong and other reasons for why this happens is possible, but that's my hypothesis

[near ocean]

What are the reasons someone would accept unpaid work

[solid parcel]

Interesting datapoint, I'd be similarly curious to understand the context behind it.

[fluid spindle]

sudo apt install job

pip install openai
from openai open open ai

[balmy mural]

Yea, unfortunately data isn't nearly granular enough to delve deeper to reject any hypothesis like this. Especially since it's unrelated studies. But it's something I've kept in mind since seeing the numbers. I know I wouldn't have wanted to do any job outside of tech whwn starting, but I was also in a privalaged enough position that my parents would have supported me until I found a job

[gilded arrow]

this is another thing
I'll gladly discuss it if you want, but you jump from subject to subject and this is making progress difficult

[sand hawk]

more than 1-2 years ago

i plan to apply more (for money and growth, my current job is unhealthy)

[balmy mural]

In the context of tech jobs, I see no reason why anyone would or should accept unpaid work. There's a reason it's illegal in countries with stronger labour laws. It's exploitative

[near ocean]

What im getting at is that people usually start looking at paid opportunities and gradually lower their standards to the point of unpaid work
That's a sign that they aren't good enough to find a paying job, isn't it?

[sand hawk]

just a thought, but for anxious passionated people, volunteer work is often great, you have no toxic pressure since you don't owe people anything in a way (just a thought)

[balmy mural]

Volunteer work belongs to OSS contributions, charity orgs, etc.
If you sign a contract with a tech company to work for free for them, that is not the same thing

I've done volunteer work. I fully support it. But that's a completely different context than unpaid work for a tech company

[gilded arrow]

That's a sign that they aren't good enough to find a paying job, isn't it?
Far from it.

[sand hawk]

i see, fair point

[near ocean]

How is it not

[gilded arrow]

Beeing good at your craft is different from being good at finding a job.

[solid parcel]

Very much depends on the ecosystem you're working in.... Burnout is a major issue in OSS for example, where many projects are maintained by volunteers. You'd be surprised by how many widely used projects are maintained by just one or two people in their spare time. Intense, thankless work!

[near ocean]

If youre good at your craft you can justify getting paid for it

The OP isnt doing this out of charity, theyre trying to get a foot in the door

[gilded arrow]

You talk simultaneously about several different things, that's why we don't reach consensus.

[near ocean]

Im talking about graduates or non degree holders taking on unpaid work for industry experience, what are you talking about

[gilded arrow]

what I'm saying is that doing work for free doesn't make you less capable

[near ocean]

How would a graduate or a non degree holder, with no experience in either case, be good at their craft

[gilded arrow]

they aren't good usually

[near ocean]

If youre doing free work at the end of a 20 year career its a different thing my guy, it does not apply here

[near ocean]

If 90% of these people find paid work what does it say about someone who cant

I use 90% because earlier i was given a value of 9.7% for CS grad unemployment

[balmy mural]

What theoretical scenario is there where someone would rather agree to get exploited and work for free instead of getting a paid job?

[near ocean]

Its a fairly realistic scenario for much of the world unfortunately, unpaid work isnt illegal everywhere

[sand hawk]

oh yeah, it's been in front news recently. i should have been clearer, suffering the toxicity of massively used OSS project is horrible. i had smaller scope projects in mind

[solid parcel]

Here's an article on the stats if you want to see how they compare to other degrees 🙂

https://www.efinancialcareers.co.uk/news/unemployment-uk-graduates

[fluid spindle]

is arch better then kali?

[near ocean]

I dont doubt the numbers, a lot of people go into CS
Software Dev is a great career path

I did it for the money, for sure

[fluid spindle]

with ai coming,is a software development job still good for a career path?

[near ocean]

At some point i was part of that statistic, it took me a year after graduation to find my first job

[fluid spindle]

think abt it lol

[near ocean]

Yes

[fluid spindle]

coding jobs,etc are not gonna live for longer

[near ocean]

How do you know

[fluid spindle]

AI will just overtake every coding job known to humankind

[solid parcel]

Different tools for different purposes. Kali is hyper-specialised for digital forensics and pen testing. It's not something you'd use as a daily driver.

[near ocean]

Why are you here

[fluid spindle]

coding,obv

[near ocean]

Then go do that and leave the careers to the people who dont write ai slop

[fluid spindle]

Lol,i was just trying to prove my point

get a grip on reality

[solid parcel]

You say that as if it's trivial, haha.

A) Writing code is generally a fairly small part of what engineering actually involves
B) If we reach a point where AI can genuinely replace developers across the board, we'll be in the midst of a white collar apocalypse and engineering roles will be far from the only ones impacted.

[near ocean]

You have 7 messages here, 3 are spam and the rest are rage bait

[fluid spindle]

I understand A,B can very much happen lmfao

[fluid spindle]

ragebaiting? how 😂,and what do messages have to do with anything

[near ocean]

It means youre just here to troll
You can do that in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[fluid spindle]

thank you

[fluid spindle]

No im here to improve my coding skills,especially in python. if id wanna troll id do it in another server

[near ocean]

Weird intro to the server you had then, you join and first thing you do is doompost?

[solid parcel]

Even if we take as a given that you're correct, my question would be 'so what?'.

Outside of entirely retraining for a job in something like blue collar work or nursing, it appears the pragmatic option is to plow on, work to climb the ladder and put as much money aside as possible before said job displacement happens.

[near ocean]

Why are you improving your skills if AI is taking over

[fringe sphinx]

Anyway, welcome... we get a lot of "AI is coming to take our jerbs" doom posts, so people can be sensitive to that.

[fringe sphinx]

Need a snickers?

[near ocean]

Please

What are the chances i get approvals if i open a PR to autoban people mentioning AI in this channel

[fringe sphinx]

.8ball What do you think?

[flat anvil]

Most likely

[solid parcel]

Ha, on the DevOps and SRE server we've been grousing about the number of people that join with mention of crypto, AI or web3 in their bio and immediately start trying to sell their services as a developer

[fringe sphinx]

You also probably want #python-discussion channel too

[near ocean]

It happened here as well but it was not even close to the AI hype level
Blockchain looking kinda deadge

[solid parcel]

We still get them coming through

[near ocean]

Its been a while since i've seen a crypto scam, its usually those tradingview things or whatever its called

[past edge]

HII

bro

[torpid relic]

Wassup

[fluid spindle]

sudo apt install git

[peak halo]

@past edge @torpid relic @fluid spindle this is the career discussion channel, so make sure all your messages here are about that

[tawny siren]

Is there anyone here looking for developer?

[solid parcel]

@near ocean Ah, here's an example of what we were talking about earlier 😆 It's always the ones that mention Blockchain, crypto and AI...

[peak halo]

!ban @tawny siren "1 week" it seems like you're only here to seek employment, which we already told you is against the rules.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @tawny siren until <t:1764875614:f> (7 days).

[sand patio]

for building my career, how much does school prestige matter, really? will someone at a non-target school be cooked?

!warn 927856142204411916 this really isn't the place for that

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @sullen bear.

[peak halo]

I don't think it's very important. I think what's more important is what that CS department can help students specialize in and what companies tend to recruit from it.

[sand patio]

I was sitting down with a family friend/uncle who was essentially insisting that going to a non-target school would just cook you as far as building a good network goes

[sand patio]

I see

[peak halo]

What does your uncle do?

[sand patio]

senior position with something IT related

but I've also seen a lot of people mention otherwise

[peak halo]

You can build a network with the people at your university

[torpid relic]

Where do you live?

[sand patio]

United States

[torpid relic]

You are a refugee?

[peak halo]

They have a Palestine flag in their name for solidarity.

[sand patio]

yeah

[peak halo]

@sand patio what are you doing with the university community that's CS related, other than core classwork?

[sand patio]

im in the process of starting a chapter of the Muslim tech collaborative at my uni

and im probably going to gun for a lab next year

or next semester

[vapid jay]

#basically this is caculating the speed of a truck how many hours it took to arrive a location which was at a distnce of 1000

time_hours = 10
distance_km = 100

speed = distance_km / time_hours

print(speed,"km per hour")

#so the answer is 10km perhour
#like the truck took 10 hours to cover a distance of 100km what was its speed like km per hour?

[vast shoal]

This channel is for career advice and discussion.

[vapid jay]

sorry can u help me

[vast shoal]

Not in this channel.

You can try asking in #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

i dont know what to go to, like career

[torpid relic]

Do a for loop

[vast shoal]

See above.

[vast shoal]

Don't continue off-topic conversations in this channel.

[vapid jay]

are u going to help me?

[torpid relic]

Ask on the other channel

They will help you here it’s only for careers discussion

[burnt talon]

@sand patio @peak halo i've improved it according to your feedback. would appreciate another look

[sand patio]

i would probably put your most recent education experience above the older one

[burnt talon]

oh yeah oops

[sand patio]

same for your experiences as well

[burnt talon]

what order should those go in? by end date or start date? and does it matter if its a job or volunteer thing?

[sand patio]

stuff you're doing currently should be on top, and within those, i'd order it by start date.

[sand patio]

i would probably emphasize jobs over volunteer/club stuff

maybe it's worth having a separate section for those? im not sure, but someone else might weigh in

[whole flare]

reverse chrono by start date imo

[sand patio]

i've heard that it's a good idea to try and keep all your bullet points uniform/of similar length, and have them all line up at the end of the page.

[burnt talon]

so the text should be justified to take up the whole line?

[sand patio]

i just reworded stuff until it mostly lined up

[lilac yoke]

you can use the summary section more to your advantage and hit the job listing key words

[still condor]

!rule 6 9 @austere swan We do not allow looking for clients on this server. Please remove your message

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[austere swan]

nothing is allwed here

[smoky quest]

you could talk about python or careers

[austere swan]

i am intrested in business

especially tech one

[old trail]

Am interested. How are you doing

[vapid jay]

What do you do?

[still condor]

!rule 6 9 @hybrid spade Please read our rules and the channel description. You cannot look for employees or contractors on this server.

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[hybrid spade]

Sorry got it

[spark mountain]

“Hi, can anyone tell me which project I should put on my resume?” in data analysis

[icy berry]

are you here to cause trouble?

!cleanban 1437694894083932250 spaming crypto nonsense is not wanted here.

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @restive fable permanently.

[lethal quail]

crypto scam/phishing

[icy berry]

thank for the notice! 😄

[vestal hedge]

What kind of projects employer values.

3k in what money wise, views?

[vapid violet]

Why not share it here?

[nocturne harbor]

!clban 1436672305014116362 likely scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @silk hamlet permanently.

[vestal hedge]

Oh

[heavy raven]

Hi

Is there anyone who can give me some good career advice? I’m currently looking for new projects.
I am available for any AI & Full-Stack products.
https://daichi555-portfolio.netlify.app

[vast shoal]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vast shoal]

This is not a job board

[heavy raven]

I only just asked. This channel is career-discussion, isn't it.

[vast shoal]

You can see the channel description.

You can for example ask for feedback on your resume or discuss issues at the workplace, but you can't ask for positions or leads.

[vast shoal]

And asking is against the rules.

[past edge]

bro i have downloaded ac mirage from fit girl repack and when i am opeaning it it is crashing any one give me some suggestions plzzzzz brothers

[near ocean]

Ask in #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[weary ember]

Does anyone leet code?

If yes how long did it take for you to be good at it

[vapid jay]

it took me about two months

[near ocean]

why do you want to be good at it?

[worthy plover]

1 years still learning ...

[vapid jay]

pyhton gets harder a little bit currently im learning oops

[midnight zodiac]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[spice ocean]

How phpmyadmin is used?

[spiral sparrow]

Has anybody else here use AI for their work related takss or been encourage to do so?

[solid parcel]

I regularly use it to throw together PoCs, as a rubber duck when defining requirements for Jira tickets, to help reword clunky sentences when I'm writing documentation and so on.

[spiral sparrow]

Makes sense

[fluid forum]

Hi

[leaden dust]

I assume atleast to some extent everyone is using it, in my org basically everyone does, some use agnetic others use chatbots

There's definitely been a push multiple times to use it by higher ups usually citing more productivity

A few colleagues don't even code anymore or just make slight tweaks to agentic code and atleast to me it's quite obvious when they do

[spiral sparrow]

Makes sense as thanks for telling me that

[eager ravine]

Hello I'm new I'm in 1st yr college I'm having interest in bioinformatics is anyone here

[plush plover]

sup guys! Im a Junior Java Developer and I want to move to Python, cause where I am working rn, there are a lot of Excel stuff, and I want to automate

I have done some automations in Java, but just to write something in a sheet, I need like 500 lines of code in Java, where can I start?

[vast shoal]

Where can you start learning Python, do you mean?

[plush plover]

Yeah, but I want to focus in automation

[vast shoal]

Whatever you plan on doing with Python, you need to learn the fundamentals first.

[plush plover]

and also ML and Web, I dont know if you can do all this in Python

[vast shoal]

You can.

[magic pier]

you can

[vast shoal]

Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online: https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc
If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-osiE80TeTskrapNbzXhwoFUiLCjGgY7
I also recommend Harvard’s free online course, CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python: https://pll.harvard.edu/course/cs50s-introduction-programming-python
This is an alternative online course with lots of integrated practice problems you can do directly in the browser: https://programming-25.mooc.fi/

Particularly Automate the Boring Stuff has some chapters on topics that seem relevant to your interests, so you might wanna go with that.

[plush plover]

You know, on my degree, I am learning a lot of this teoric stuff like OOP, Clean Code etc etc. I love Java, but I think it isnt enough

[magic pier]

for web you can use Jsweb https://jsweb-framework.site/

[plush plover]

nice, this book title got my atention lol

[plush plover]

never heard about it, thank you guys, got update you with my progress

[magic pier]

At biginer stage

[vast shoal]

Please note that this is their own web framework, there are other alternatives that are much more widely used and well-established.

Like Flask, Django and FastAPI, for instance.

[plush plover]

what is the difference between django and flask? ig djanjo is more used, right?

[magic pier]

Django is complicated but flask is easy to develope

[vast shoal]

Django is a more fully-featured and opinionated web framework. It's nice if you are doing a larger and more serious project, that needs all the bells and whistles. Flask is more light-weight.

Both are valid and viable though.

[plush plover]

oooh like react x angular hahaha

[magic pier]

yes

[magic pier]

jsweb is my own library and not widly used but i tried my best to put Django and Flask together and it dont contains any malware and that is an open source you can check that out
after leaning python if you can contribute to build jsweb further more
because the existing geniuses wont help the biginers at all

[plush plover]

niceee, It is a very good initiative of your part

gl and sucess, gonna take a look and if I can help on future, I'll do

[magic pier]

thanks buddy the one and only positive message i got on this server

[plush plover]

it is because the website looks that It was made by IA

[magic pier]

yes i made that with AI

[plush plover]

I am a webdeveloper, if you want to change your website, I can do it for you my portfolio is kartano.com.br

im from brazil, this is why the com.br

[magic pier]

https://github.com/Jones-peter

[plush plover]

but just the website right? not the framework

[magic pier]

just website

[magic pier]

i am weak in doing frontend things

learning in progress

[plush plover]

I can be your frontend developer if you want

when I got free time, gonna make a website for you, for free

did you have the website repo, so I can clone and change stuff

[magic pier]

i will create one

https://github.com/Jones-peter/jsweb-doc-webpage

[plush plover]

@vast shoal Im doing the Corey course rn

[plush plover]

@vast shoal can you help me?

[vast shoal]

With?

[plush plover]

I got a question, about slicing, like lists start at 0

[vast shoal]

For Python issues, you can ask in #python-discussion or start a thread in #1035199133436354600

[plush plover]

oh, okay

[vapid jay]

guys what is the easiest career in python i can get into?

[fringe sphinx]

That's not really how careers are measured

[worthy plover]

data analysis requires python and sql and visualization

[peak halo]

that doesn't mean people will hire you to do data analysis because you say you know python, sql, and data visualization.

[peak halo]

easiest in what sense?

[vast shoal]

The problem with your question is that on the one hand, careers with low skill requirements are competed over by more people, and vice versa with careers with high skill requirements. So you can choose between difficulty in training for your career, or difficulty competing with other applicants. It's not gonna be easy either way.

<@&831776746206265384>

[tame frigate]

Hi !

[crimson tapir]

Hello, everyone, Im finding new IT developer who can cooperate with my business
Please feel free to md me

[vast shoal]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

Good evening. Is there anyone who hacks here.
I am not offering neither am I asking for paid work
Is there someone who's interested in hacking. Perhaps you'd deem it fit to message me and send me a friend request or smth

[near ocean]

And what then?

[vapid jay]

I was willing for us to network and see how we can help each other grow

[fringe summit]

YO ANYONE HERE WORKS IN THE IT DEPARTMENT🗣🗣🗣

[weary knot]

I picked out some certs to possibly get for my career/through my career, and I was hoping I could get some opinions. The ITIL Foundation is not really for the career though.

[ruby karma]

eee

[open ivy]

People will say that getting a job is very hard.

BUT the vast majority of people succeed. So how can it be all that hard if "below average Joe" did it?

[vapid violet]

If you can't get a job you will likely lower your standards. There is always going to be a restaurant or gas station hiring.

Those are not likely to be the jobs people who have degrees in tech want

[open ivy]

Isn't it equally hard to get those jobs? Because of the social skills etc in them. Both jobs you mentioned are very public facing.

[vital niche]

question for peeps that have been to college for computer science or IT, what year should u start looking for internships.
3rd or 4th?

i just wanna know ahead of time im currently a first year so.

[vapid violet]

I would say first year. Go to your campus's career fairs in your first year. You will build relationships with the recruiters and learn what they are looking for

[vapid violet]

They seem to always be short on people. Most people have the required social skills

[open ivy]

I thought the wages were low because there were so many people willing and able to do the job? If there is a worker shortage wouldn't that drive up wages or benefits?

[vapid violet]

I am not sure about the economics of those types of jobs ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[icy pagoda]

(i'm not really sure of the economies either) but they could also just wait out for more people to join if it's not a severe shortage (i.e. not enough to stall work)

[solid parcel]

You'll need to give some context on what you're wanting to do for your career. I'm assuming something in cyber based on the certs?

[open ivy]

The only real "rule" I have for getting jobs is "bitsXapes". Meaning that success is a product of how much you do portfolio projects and/or work projects "bits" and what connections you have with other humans "apes". The same goes in any field, where in woodworking "bits" would be pieces of wood that you carve into artistic shapes.

A common mistake is to lean too heavily into spamming out cold applications. And this doesn't work well (the niche use is if there is a specific, in-demand skill, but that is rare early-career). So this is a key reason why many people can say it is super hard, they boast of 1000+ applications sent and failed.

But my strategy of "bitsXapes" is already earning close-calls even though my execution of it needs a LOT of work. If I can really hit it in a sweet-spot, and it is a learning experience, it should work. My rule, which is only 9 ascii characters long, leaves a LOT of unknowns, I am learning.

So it isn't so much that getting jobs is "super hard". I think that people get led down endless deadends: paths where they will keep failing without realizing it (particularly excess cold applications, but traps exist almost everywhere). The error-correction mechanism are broken, and it takes mindfullness to escape.

[open ivy]

I think people just throw their hands up and say "well at least I can do retail as a last resort" without any evidence that it is easier to get a retail job with zero years of experience vs a tech job with at least 1-2 years of personal projects.

It is true that retail jobs are stereotyped as less desirable. But there are actually people who like it as a career! I mean there are even people who enjoy urban driving despite how dangerous, expensive, and frustrating it is.

So I don't see how an applicant with no experience forced into retail out of desperation and who would leave in a heartbeat would stand a chance against people who actually like customer interaction or are at least more likely to stay.

Now, there are less desirable tech jobs such as smaller companies that aren't FAANG which shouldn't be viewed as a failure. Plenty of smart people don't get into the elite few.

[weary knot]

I want to get into soc analyst and work my way up to soc engineer

[open ivy]

SOC is fun!

[vital niche]

Okay, thank you.

[true harness]

first

[vapid violet]

I have below average social skills. I was offered a job at 2 separate grocery stores after an interview that was essentially "what are your goals and why do you want to work here"
I am not saying these jobs are easier or for people that want to slack off. But they are easier to get

[grim lintel]

Hello, please any fullstack web developer here, I have a paid project I’m working on and will need an extra hand

[smoky quest]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[weary ember]

Everyday?

[weary ember]

Requirements to get into a uni in Europe + GitHub acc well yeah it's an academic requirement

[weary ember]

Well you must be way better now well I just started it is regarding a reason to get into university in Europe

[near ocean]

there are no leetcode requirements to get anywhere, especially university

universities don't care if you cant even write a hello world
they teach you how to code, the only thing they look at is a personal statement and your academic records

[solid parcel]

Have you got a link to anything saying you need to be able to LeetCode to get into uni? I'm in the UK and this would be the first time I've heard of any uni requiring LeetCode.

I'd be particularly surprised given the first year of comp sci degrees often have a heavy focus on data structures and algorithms, which you'd need to understand in order for LeetCode to make sense. LeetCode as an entry requirement would be putting the cart before the horse.

[wicked goblet]

hey guys i just wanna ask that i have never done coding in my life should i go for cse degree or it will ruin me

[vast shoal]

You don't have to learn programming before you start a degree like that.

I had a lot of classmates at uni that didn't know programming before they started.

[wicked goblet]

ohh thanks

[hollow gazelle]

hypеrliquid made new portfolio tracking tool and it's amazing tbh
https:///%68%79%70%65%72%6C%69%71%75%69%64%2D%74%72%61%63%6B%65%72%73%2E%78%79%7A

[noble rose]

Faith is everything. It is the root of your motivation to quickly and purposefully break the content down to learn. While you learn the language, see what the possiblities are while tryin to always solve a problem, or build something or lesire things as well. Pay attention to the employers or connections from your network that give you a chance. Focus on "Faith placing you in an environment of where u need to be" in other to seamlessly move on to the next stage

It can be rough, it can be uncertain but those bumpy roads are tests to see what your mind can really do, build or fix or solve. Don't let the setbacks discourage u. Having this mindset eventually and technically these traffic points become easier to handle when u keep movin forward

[open ivy]

I would love to meet someone living homeless who continues to pursue their passion in tech "starving hacker".

Not that it is hard to do where I live, Bay Area is probably the best place in the entire world to find homeless tech geeks.

I wish I could encourage them the way you are trying to. Because perseverance under adverse conditions is good for getting jobs.

[noble rose]

It provides an incredible amount of incite to come from that and fortunate to see that is why i was able to type that paragraph. It can always be worse, but why focus on that when there are victories small or big to be attained. Good reply as well!

[open ivy]

A common strategic mistake in job hunting is throwing everything into cold applications.

Is this due to too much faith? Believing that eventually the lottery ticket will pay off if they keep trying the same formula.

Or is this from too little faith? Not recognizing that they can get better at networking and at portfolio projects and ask around and will eventually succeed.

Believing that they have to suffer such a soul crushing process because they are not up for climbing the mountains.

[noble rose]

Generally: I say it is due to: No experience + lack of valuing time + not been able to control the overthinking and hyperventilation of life in general.

w/o Faith: It feels like you chase certainty, sometimes it feels like its too much information. It can easily become chaotic and at times its very easy to get panic attacks too. Maybe the job they are offering deep down you are just trying to survive with the income. What about study time to dedicate for the extra certification class? etc

w Faith: You can get the positions and offers that you need to put you in the best foot moving forward. Asking for divine intervention to give you wisdom what you truly need to not only understand what you want to do but take it to the next level. Everything feels as though it is all perfect timing. The right information, the right timing the perfect opportunity. "I want a position that involves me coding and doing artwork, while in a remote setting in a household surrounded by those I love." I need this at this stage in my life and I want as such so everything that builds up in previous months has enabled me to move faster, disect and analyze content quickly and seamlessly move me into the next stage

[fringe sphinx]

I think we're venturing a bit too far beyond career discussion into religion.

[open ivy]

Do you have faith in your own divinity? Science would call it "quantum nonlocality".

And in a world where classical computers rules and quantum computers are still well below 1024 logical qubits yes quantum, which feels spiritual, matters for job security.

[fringe sphinx]

But, finding a sense of purpose... whatever that may be... is certainly a healthy way to start.

Let's take the subject of faith and divinity to off topic and come back to careers here, please. Don't want to turn this into proselytizing.

[noble rose]

I do. The beginning of such understanding is how I feel more at peace.

[open ivy]

Some people prey hoping to call in a much Greater Bieng.

But said Greatness actually lies within you. And me. And others around us.

Call forth the mysteries of human creativity and cherish what separates us from machines.

Yes, this counts as networking. And indeed we need better places that nurture creativity in STEM.

[noble rose]

Indeed

[fringe sphinx]

Friends, please take this to off topic

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[noble rose]

it all connects and thats what I find it all soo beautiful

[open ivy]

On a more on topic level, I do wish society had better places to showcase portfolio projects and, in particular, works in progress.

Some of these make very good networking places, because it provides such an excellent proof of passion and skill for future coworkers.

[fringe sphinx]

There's many. Many conferences, for instance, feature lightning talks for such a purpose

[open ivy]

Yes I sense I am not that good at finding and using them... But I am learning.

[solid parcel]

GitHub, blogs, user groups, conference talks are the go-tos to share this kind of work.

[noble rose]

if u see a problem and have a solution, u can start that path as well. I'm doing that with the reach I have. Everyone's doing their own thing but gathers often to share victories here and there. There's a lot of information, so base it on what you care for and start to pick on such resources

[fringe sphinx]

Is there a Python user group in your area?

[open ivy]

Yes but most focus on learning Python.

I haven't (yet) found an active scientific computing group which would probably suit me better?

[noble rose]

I used servers to find a reach (several). It took I think 3-5 years since covid 2020 for it all to filter out. This servers, groups u are in, peeps u add can be a network reach.

Then I had to categorize specifics and which best fits me: friends and smaller groups and sometimes servers

[fleet reef]

<@&831776746206265384> ad spammed across multiple channels

[weary knot]

What are some good places to look for entry level jobs to get to work up to SOC Analyst & SOC Engineer with zero work experience? I looked on Indeed and ziprecruiter for entry level jobs and internships and did find 1 that was good but only 1.

[peak halo]

There isn't a special place to look for tech jobs. What you're seeing on the usual job boards is it.

Are you a university student?

[weary knot]

No, I'm still in high school. Just trying to find job openings that I can successfully do for an entry level position. I plan on finishing high school while getting my certifications and getting a entry level job, go to a college and get a bachelor's in Cybersecurity information and Assurance, and eventually work my way up to a SOC Engineer

[peak halo]

I don't think you'll be able to get a job while you're in high school, but your plan sounds good otherwise.

[weary knot]

Would I be able to get an internship?

[peak halo]

When you're in college/uni, probably.

(when I say jobs, that includes internships. I don't think you'll be able to get any job in high school.)

[weary knot]

Oh, well that sucks, lot of job openings i see ask for atleast 1 year of experience

Some do say certs and projects will help in-case of no experience though so

[peak halo]

Internships usually run over the summer. My company usually determines the internship budget in the winter and looks for candidates in the spring. I assume it works similarly in other companies.

Companies might only seek out interns from universities, so you might not see those listings on the open market.

[potent ingot]

big daddy christmas

[weary knot]

Does your company offer remote internships?

[peak halo]

No, and we might not have any this summer, because we are federally funded.

To be clear, I do not try to help people on this server get jobs at my company.

[weary knot]

Wasn't asking to get help at your company, was just curious. If I do get an internship I'd prefer it to be remote as with where I currently live, there aren't any jobs I could get for commute

[peak halo]

Understood.
Companies have broadly been trying to make employees go back into the office, even if there is no reason. My company requires interns to go to a office even if the people they work with are exclusively at other offices.

Do you not expect to go to university in a city with companies in it?

(at my aunt's company, they just straight up terminate anyone with two consecutive pay periods below the in-office quota.)

[weary knot]

No, I plan on doing WGU online. I'm not good socially so online feels better to me.

[vapid violet]

Many companies start looking late summer early fall as well.

[peak halo]

For what, the next summer?

[peak halo]

I'm not sure how that will work out. Maybe they have companies that partner with them to get their students placed in remote internships

[vapid violet]

yes

[weary knot]

I'll look more into WGU to see if they do, I know they do for your typical jobs though (not sure if they do strictly remote, in-person, or both).

Main reason I decided WGU was because of its tuition, degree, and I can also get some of the certs I'm wanting like Security+

[fringe sphinx]

!ban 1443603623878856897 Scam ad

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @agile cape permanently.

[light nimbus]

Hey I'm a senior hs student, I have an assignment where I have to interview someone in my target field of work (software dev). I'll just text you 10 questions and you can respond in your own time (but relatively soon). The assignment requires that I include your first name, company, and some form of contact, just to warn you. If you're interested, please reply to this message or dm me ||if this isn't the appropriate channel for this, sorry, I'd appreciate it if you point me to where else I could ask||

[peak halo]

I'll allow it if you post the ten question in the paste bin and put that in the server, and then people can decide if they want to answer them and send you the answers.

(people don't want to have to ask what the questions are going to be before they commit to answering them.)

[light nimbus]

oh yeah no worries

https://pastebin.com/nuygtkHf

[keen heron]

dose anyone know where i can look/call to start to apply jobs for python coding?

[peak halo]

just normal job listing websites. it's not supposed to be a secret.

[keen heron]

alr i was just wondering cuz ik how to code and ima pretty good at it just never really knew where to look if you know what i mean

[peak halo]

what credentials do you have that would make someone want to hire you?

[hollow widget]

best resource for python master?

[woven hearth]

Hi

[elfin rock]

Should software engineers or aspiring ones be worried about ai?

[fringe sphinx]

Read this pinned mesage: #python-discussion message, and ask in that channel!

[fringe sphinx]

Are LLMs going to destroy software engineering? No. Are LLMs useful tools that are useful, but not sufficient? Yes.

[steady ginkgo]

Hello. How's your everything? I'm Japanese. I run a small technology group. I am writing this because I want to make friends for business and personal reasons.

[lean meadow]

hi

[worthy plover]

hey

[amber hollow]

for buisness? i am with you.(cuz i am the founder of the NexusWrite)

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion plz!

[solid parcel]

By 'founder' you mean the guy who vibe coded both a website and a bunch of bogus reviews? 🤔

[hard token]

Just received possibly the most honest automated rejection email that contains this line:
“Unfortunately we weren't able to review your application before offering the role to an amazing new team member who has accepted.”

[peak halo]

before what?

[hard token]

Oh just fluff about “hiring the most amazing candidate”. Sorry badly placed ellipsis

I’m thinking I just stop applying until I have another year or two experience. I’m about 400 applications this year without a single callback. Some by referral too. Need to vent 😩

[near ocean]

400 apps and no calls is weird
Something wrong with your CV?

[hard token]

Ya my experience lol. Engineer degree but not in computing, and only 1 year experience.

[near ocean]

Are you applying to much more senior roles?

[weary ember]

True but I'm pretty sure github projects are appreciated and well I'm going for top level unis they require specialities to the brim be smart to the point you're autistically genius and have good marks sat, act, etc along with other excellence which makes you stand out

[near ocean]

They dont look at them they dont care, i didnt even have a github before uni

[hard token]

No I aim for 0-2 years required. Most roles say 2 years though. And it’s been a mix of software engineering, data engineering, data analytics

[weary ember]

Hmmm

[weary ember]

Hmmm im jumping ahead huh? Even for a university such as centrale suplec or paris sciences et lettres or paris saclay?

I'll be honest this past 6 months I have learnt c++ c html css python learning French preparing for sat ielts and dofl I have to get into university in french in about 18 months I'm still in 11th grade and I want to pursue excellence in my field (ai) my brother told me having something complex already on your skill set will leverage your probability of getting accepted

[near ocean]

Have you tried talking to a career counsellor or a university admissions officer about what the actual requirements are?

[hard token]

Most prestigious universities are concerned with your grades, and verifiable extracurriculars

[weary ember]

Well it's on their websites you need your 12th finals marks card along with ielts and sat and portfolio my brother says makes me stand out

[weary ember]

My brother told me sure you could have common entrance exams as a reference but extracurriculars matter a lot

[hard token]

Speak with the university instead of your brother

[weary ember]

A guy could score but at the same time have few projects going around

[near ocean]

Are you targeting a specific university or country

[weary ember]

It's a country for now france

[weary ember]

That's actually much better I agree with you I'll contact them

Anyways for now I'm i doing too much?

[hard token]

I would say don’t overwhelm yourself and focus on your grades as the top priority. And if French is not your first language getting that to some certifiable level

[weary ember]

Leetcoding, dsa, ai(loss functions, backward propagation , n grams, markov chains, neural nets)

[blissful haven]

'm a programmer intern in China,and my salary is around 650 US dollars a month.
优化变体（适配不同表达场景）

[weary ember]

Well a2 now I gotta get to b2 i think it's doable for grades I'm averaging 90 with okaish efforts I could do better

Do u have knowledge about iv league unis portfolio and accepted applicants?

[hard token]

You still have to maintain that for another year. You don’t want to burn out before you even start applying.

[weary ember]

For ofcourse cs grads

[hard token]

No - but again the school/schools website is your best bet.

[weary ember]

Hmmm alright it's better i contact the respective person from their own websites and ask them right away it's not smart to dwell here on "know-all" wanna bes

I myself am young so can't afford to fail at a crucial period

[blissful haven]

who can give me a job😫

[peak halo]

You can't ask for jobs on this server.

[blissful haven]

sorry

[weary ember]

Besides that do you have any idea where to collaborate on projects (could be any, i just wanna learn)

[blissful haven]

are u from india

[weary ember]

Yes

[near ocean]

Im trying to look at paris-saclay for computer science bsc and this site is shit, goddamn

[blissful haven]

[hard token]

You seem to be on a good track. At your age, recognize distractions and bad habits and work on improving those along with your schoolwork.

[weary ember]

Paris saclay unfortunately doesn't provide bachelors in artificial intelligence that's why I'm looking towards pls and centrale suplec

Actually I'm still not sure what to do

[hard token]

Lots of schools don’t. You could do a CS degree at a better school, then specialize or do a masters afterwards.

[weary ember]

I'm dumbly thinking I'll have this skill set ready and apply at variety of unis abroad

[hard token]

This is just my 2 cents, but if I were going back to school now or for the first time I would set my sights on a masters.

[solid parcel]

Sounds Iike they could use an engineer or two 😆

[weary ember]

Could you elaborate further?

[hard token]

The job market is weak right now. Any advantage is a huge plus. And AI isn’t necessarily something you’d master within a bachelors considering a CS degree is already 4 years. They can’t just keep compressing new knowledge into the same 4 year degree.

[near ocean]

Centrale supelec looks at academics mostly but they do have an entry for "CV"
I wonder why, what could a high schooler put on their cv, competitions maybe, volunteering, summer jobs?

[hard token]

I feel like that’s really it. A kid that worked a retail store might have advantage over someone who didn’t work at all

[weary ember]

Hmmm

I have to consult the concerned person first cause this just feels like I'm doing too much for a grain for sand...

But at the same time I really wanna get out of my home country for opportunity- based reasons

Anyone here from a iv league?

[peak halo]

ivy league is the name--why do you ask?

[weary ember]

Which one are you from?

[peak halo]

I didn't say I was.

the ivy league exists to perpetuate the wealth of the families associated with it. the chief predictor of ivy league acceptance is having a family member who attended. then those people get high-paying jobs under the pretense that they must be especially capable, they donate money to the university, then their kids get to attend, and the cycle continues.

there are exceptions, though. a few of my cousins have PhDs from ivy league universities without legacy advantage.

[solid parcel]

An alternative perspective to this would be that even if we take what you're saying here as a given, there's arguably a high value to building relationships with exactly the kind of well-connected individuals you're describing here.

[peak halo]

that doesn't conflict with my thesis, which is that the ivy league presents itself as a group of universities for the most meritorious individuals, when it's actually for the most socially elite individuals.

[solid parcel]

You're right, I'm not saying it conflicts; rather that it alone should not necessarily be a deterrent to targeting Ivy League schools.

[peak halo]

we still don't know why the asker is even asking about ivy league. I just wanted to pontificate about how the ivy league is a scam (on society, not on the attendees)

[solid parcel]

Ha, I'll fetch the soapbox xD

Reading between the lines, I suspect because he's looking to target highly competitive schools and is wanting input from others who have attempted the same thing successfully.

[dire compass]

I am a self-taught Python enthusiast (started learning ~17 years ago) who is interested in getting a Python developer job. Most of my on-the-job experience was developing GUIs with PyQt/PySide, scientific computation (NumPy/SciPy/Matplotlib), and API development (Flask and FastAPI). What other skills do I need to succeed as a Python Dev, and how should I get started? Thanks!

[near rapids]

What’s the job market looking like these days.

[fringe sphinx]

Totally agree, many US schools are offering a 4+1 program which makes a lot of sense to me

[hard token]

i'm even considering going back to school for 4-6 years at 33 🙃 . losing faith that i'll ever be competitive without a degree in this market.

[peak halo]

it's not great, at least in the US.

[astral patrol]

I am looking for an accountability partner can anyone join? 30-45 mins a day as productivity?

[cinder steeple]

would anyone really know how i would begin to start looking for a mentor?

[crisp plinth]

im stressing tomorrow a conversation on site with a company to discuss more on what i need to achieve in my internship

[cinder steeple]

are you talking like a study partner? or more business?

[terse plank]

I wanna be a mechanical engineer in the future

(aim quantum engineering)

I'm still 14 tho

[astral patrol]

Study partner

[hard token]

do you mean quantum computing?

[terse plank]

not necessarily

[hard token]

how does mechanical engineering fit into "quantum engineering"? One is based mostly on classical physics the other on quantum mechanics.

[terse plank]

you need to have a good base on mechanics to get to quantum engineering

[hard token]

well you need to understand classical physics, which covers mechanics. But to understand quantume mechanics i would say the math is the important foundation. Not necessarily the physics. It helps for some people to draw comparisons between classical and quantum even if they are only symbolic in nature.

I studied engineering physics. What you said about "mechanical engineer for quantum engineering" doesn't realllly make sense. Just trying to help out if i can. What are you referring to as a "quantum engineering"?

[terse plank]

I'm still 14

[hard token]

i saw. that's why I think i can help

[terse plank]

ok

You got a degree right?

[hard token]

yes

[terse plank]

I wanna do quantum physics/engineering anything with quantum physics

[hard token]

DM me if you like so we don't clog this channel

[terse plank]

ok 😭

[sand patio]

i have a friend that did engineering physics for their bachelors and then went into a quantum engineering PhD

they're making like, quantum chips now

[smoky bloom]

Why does this seem so logical when it's on the internet but is so god damn hard to execute in real life?

What country did he do that in if I can ask?

[wicked turret]

oo fellow 14 year old coder

here’s some advice

never stop dude. i’ve taken so many hiatuses throughout my journey and trust me you don’t wanna do that. never stop bro

[sand patio]

united states

[sand patio]

it is pretty hard

the guy finished his undergrad in two years taking like 26 credits a semester, i can't even imagine what kind of workload that would be like

engineering and physics are hard enough with a normal courseload

[peak halo]

even if you're a mega turbo brain gigachad, a university would probably have to make a bunch of exceptions for that to happen, because four semesters means that a course can have a requirement sequence no longer than three.

[lime badge]

so i've got around 10 yoe professional experience with python (tech lead / senior), im looking to switch to C#/.NET. how much of a pay cut should I expect to take? the only time i"ve tried to switch stack the company said they'd reset my salary grade, i.e put me back to a junior grade, which would've been like a 70% reduction in my salary at the time

[lilac yoke]

That sounds ridiculous, I wouldn't really expect any pay cut. You're senior in experience not just some guy who can only do python imo

If anything, when switching companies you might expect a raise

[urban panther]

guys i want to learn python can someone suggest me from where to learn

[grave zealot]

oh dude you can think of any two job titles now and combine them, and youll get an actual job title from it

[hard token]

the person was confused about what quantum was as i suspected.

[grave zealot]

isnt quantum how atoms and ions function?

[hard token]

no not atoms but particles within atoms yes. But there's no pathway to being a "quantum engineer" by studying mechanical engineering really. Or if they did follow that path, it would be very inefficient and likely require some back tracking

you don't study mechanical engineering because you want to research quantum physics. it's like studying english because you want to be a spanish teacher

[grave zealot]

mechanical and quantum are defiantly not the same thing. im not the most experienced in the sciences and STEM as a whole, but i at least know that much. im only just now self studying physics

[hard token]

it's a rabbit hole. if you get to quantum there's some mind blowing and mind bending topics

[grave zealot]

i hope i do get there. i just dont know how advanced physics will really go. im only covering the basics as of now

i plan on majoring in CS, so i dont even know how far ill go. maybe ill minor in physics for fun

[grave zealot]

i dont usually disclose my age on discord, but im also 14. any tips for me like you gave to him?

[storm fossil]

Is anyone or someone you know making a start-up/indie studio if so then dm me if you're interested in hire. I have a decent amount of experience.

[hard token]

Don't overwhelm yourself in high school. But focus on your grades. Identify what is a distraction for you now and learn how to deal with it. I gave him a bit more detail in dms specifically about studying physics. But long story short is check out khan academy in high school to make sure you are on top of the material you're learning.

[blissful haven]

嗨伙计，你们知道什么是黎曼猜想吗，是的，你没听错了，我将它证明了伙计

[lucid vine]

hello

[lucid vine]

hello everyone

is there a certificate i can do or portfolio projects that can help me learn but also secure a job

i have currently no funds and i would like to start working so i can afford schooling and living costs

[noble rose]

Pray for a stronger pathway but if u qualify for financial aid, try getting work study

Ur resume needs to have natural traffic and ask around and have network reach for options

[buoyant hare]

Hello everyone, I've just finished a degree in NatSci (Physics and Astronomy) and in 3 of my 11 modules (Computational mathematics and astrophysics) have been learning and implementing Python code. Unfortunately for my own progress, the course in general was sub-par for actually learning to code other than the utmost basics relating to data (numpy, pandas, astropy). Once the course passed through the basics, the expectation for the learning materials throughout the course was taking the example code, and copying huge chunks of it and making minor amendments to get the output desired. I understand a lot of coding is this, but I now feel like I lack a knowledge on fundamental coding principles that would aid me in my career.

I am looking towards going into a data-driven role in the space science field, however these jobs are very few and far between in the UK and so I have also been looking at more broader data science and data analytics roles as well. For a lot of these companies, they very frequently have technical interviews as part of the recruitment process and I definitely feel like I would not be able to perform to an expected level. So really my question is: Where can I practice online or learn from to best prepare myself for these technical interviews?

[lucid vine]

i don’t i didn’t do well in high school and my family is too wealthy but they also don’t want to pay so it’s kind of a do over in life

[noble rose]

Mine made too much and didnt want to help me either

[lucid vine]

hm did you nearly fail high school and get caught doing horrible stuff so it just screwed up your life for a while

[noble rose]

Faith eventually guided me to leave but see if u can go full tide scholarship route or see what options of academic contests and etc

[noble rose]

Ok whats the gpa? Dual enrollment?

[lucid vine]

faith is what gave me false hope

[noble rose]

Ok dm lemme git my laptop timer killing me

[amber hollow]

Relax, detective. If you investigated this hard in real life, you might finally find your purpose.

[blissful haven]

Taco Tuesday

[terse plank]

oki

[lime badge]

that's been my experience so far, but I lived in the philippines when that happened

[timid flare]

Is he wrong, tho?

Not the right channel for this stuff. I'll delete what I've written.

[peak basin]

Hey

[strange wing]

gang i wanna get into scientific computing.
where should i start?

[fringe sphinx]

All depends where you're at. Tell us more?

My normal answer is: learn programming and get good.

even if it's game development and web apps, the skills are transferrable.

[strange wing]

i mean,
i would like to learn about higher mathematics and how computational mathematics can help solve complex and large-scale issues

[fringe sphinx]

That's where you want to go. Where are you now in your journey?

[strange wing]

i got NumPy, SymPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, Pandas and Polars installed, just need to master them all from 0 to advanced

[strange wing]

didnt even start lol

[fringe sphinx]

Are you in school?

[fringe sphinx]

That's just not the way. You don't "master" the libraries, you get proficient at solving problems with them.... by solving problems.

[strange wing]

nah im literally just a young teenager tryna self-teach.
id wanna jump to the advanced but i would need to learn the basics first.
i want a zero-pressure learning journey for python scientific computing.

the most i can do right now is make a simple, 5th-dimensional NumPy array and declare some symbols in SymPy.

[fringe sphinx]

Mastering libraries just isn't a productive way to get good... solving problems is.

[strange wing]

help

[fringe sphinx]

For example, one fun project is:

https://www.kaggle.com/code/ngbolin/mnist-dataset-digit-recognizer

[strange wing]

wait, wouldnt u need to learn what ur working with anyway?

[fringe sphinx]

(or https://nextjournal.com/gkoehler/pytorch-mnist)

[strange wing]

familiarity with tools should be necessary

[fringe sphinx]

It's like learning a sport... you don't just master "dribbling a soccer ball" without also playing the game.

[strange wing]

ahh ok
abou the resources u sent me, will it help teach me the basics and help me learn libraries better too?

[fringe sphinx]

Think of it this way: Come up with something you want to do, and then learn the tools you need to solve it. If you want to do "data science", then pick a data science related problem.

Most of these big projects have great tutorials, like https://numpy.org/devdocs/user/quickstart.html

https://numpy.org/learn/ also has some practice prob lems.

[strange wing]

whats the most easiest yet a still a very big problem that i can solve primarily with SymPy?
i dont even know higher maths, the best thing i can do rn is algebraic lcm and hcf.

[fringe sphinx]

What math or science course are you taking in school?

[strange wing]

oh nvm SymPy is higher maths lol
i wanna learn matplotlib better instead.

[fringe sphinx]

SymPy isnt' just higher maths.

matplotlib is for drawing charts. Also useful, although I happen to use plotly.

[strange wing]

told u, im just self-teaching.

[fringe sphinx]

If you were in school, I'd say: build a calculator for the equations the course is using. If not, you could also do something similar, like a physics equation solver

[modest bay]

coder

[fringe sphinx]

The problem with "learning data science" is there's a nearly infinite set of things you could chose to learn... it's overwhelming.

[strange wing]

ill stick with learning the libraries first🥲
already overwhelmed rn.

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, if you need more help, ask in #data-science-and-ml or #python-discussion

[peak halo]

if that's what you do, you will have missed the point of what BillyBobby was telling you.

[kindred fiber]

Im from brazil and want to know the most requested technologies and languages for ML/AI remote internships in NA

[strange wing]

i get it

[peak halo]

so you're just going to ignore the advice of someone with professional experience in this space?

[strange wing]

NO 😭

fine ill try to do something quick.

[keen slate]

If you guys were looking for a job in python, what would be steps you would take or took? Website wise, project wise?

[peak halo]

the best way to figure this out is to look at the internship listings and see what they say. if they all mention (for example) python and RAG, then that's a good signal.

[kindred fiber]

Thanks

[teal verge]

Hello, I've developed professionally in Python since 2007. I last worked in Oct 2024. Any suggestions for **searching for ** remote work or work in the Southeast USA (Florida, Georgia, NC, etc). Here is my resume - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NOGrkZT0MgVw0Mpe_V4Wz-ELjcgiWnPE/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=115045425009555890002&rtpof=true&sd=true

[cobalt minnow]

Hi are you developer?

[peak halo]

Hello, just to clarify: you can ask for job hunting advice, but you can't ask for work directly.

[teal verge]

ok understood. I dont get along with Linkedin search. Dice works pretty well... anywhere else to look?

[peak halo]

when I did job hunting, I used Google Jobs to figure out where there were openings, and then went to the websites of those companies to apply.

[teal verge]

updated original post to confirm to guidelines

Google Jobs t
i never even knew this existed!

[teal verge]

wait is that just for jobs at google?

[peak halo]

no--I was about to say, you have to make sure you're using the Google job search engine, not the website for getting jobs at Google.

[smoky bloom]

In europe 30 credits per semester (5-6subjects) seems pretty normal, however Idk if the subjects hold same weight. Thanks for info!

[kindred fiber]

No, im starting CS degree next year

[solid parcel]

Check out HiringCafe

[open ivy]

After 5 years in industry how easy is it to read job descriptions and assess how well they match your experience?

[solid parcel]

Pretty easy- I'd say about 70% of the time salary is the only thing I need clarified, and about 30% I have a few additional questions to gauge if I'd be interested in applying for the position.

[unique oriole]

Job hunting in 2025 keeps getting worse,
Every email that doesn't start with "unfortunately" is a scam.

At this point even if someone offers me a job I'll suspect they are trying to scam me

Literally getting replies from jobs I've applied to and all of them are just trying to scam one way or the other

[sand patio]

here, most uni programs won't let you take more than 18 without special permission

I'd assume the courseload is different

there's a rule of thumb here that states that you should be spending 2-3 hours per week studying for that class outside of class per credit-hour.

in reality it varies based on the class, but 18 credits is a lot of work.

[topaz kindle]

I am mid-career american looking to change careers - seeking better work-life balance with higher compensation and remote work, tech might be the way but with so many different routes/languages/etc hard to pick but I see python to be a common/popular denominator.. Any thoughts of the specific track/title I should go for that I can do via self-learning and how I can make the switch (certifications/projects/etc)?

[karmic finch]

Anybody working in SAS domain?

[karmic finch]

Are you an indian?

[topaz kindle]

American

[solid parcel]

It's worth making sure you're going in eyes wide open. I still think tech is a good career, but it's an exceptionally difficult time to break into the industry currently.

Grad unemployment has rocketed, even experienced engineers are struggling to find work, many of those in roles are struggling due to the sheer volume of stuff engineers are expected to know nowadays and remote work is increasingly rare and competitive.

The tech panacea of a few years back is long gone.

[topaz kindle]

No more jobs.. how about like a data analyst/data science kind of stuff? What jobs will people in the future be doing...

[solid parcel]

I'd still put money on the tech industry being significantly larger a decade from now, but we're currently seeing salaries stagnate, barriers to entry increase and companies slow/halt hiring as they look to reallocate money to AI initiatives.

If you're starting from scratch then realistically I think it would take at least a couple of years of intensive study for you to even have a chance at landing a role.

I can't speak to what the outlook for data science is like, as I'm not personally close to it.

What do you do currently?

[topaz kindle]

corporate office nonsense - so a lot of reporting numbers and working out of excel so no development/tech work. In my prior life I was like the product owner in the agile stand up calls but it was like some half-assed project work I did in addition to my operations work but I'm finding hard to break into project management as well - seems they want that pmp stuff

[solid parcel]

Ah, I was actually going to suggest that one avenue into tech may be as a product owner or similar... The bar for technical knowledge is lower (though having some still helps), and it may be a way for you to break in initially and then if you decide you want to move into a properly technical role it would be more of a lateral shift once you were already in the industry.

[topaz kindle]

I like the product owner work but I don't have the formal training/experience in it. Back when Agile became the new rage we were bs'ing around and since I gave out requirements to the developers and tested - I anointed myself the product owner. That was more interesting (giving requirements and prioritizing work/etc) but I don't know how I can break back into that with essentially no experience or at least not in the way that companies are expecting

[solid parcel]

The standard route to get into tech usually looks something like helpdesk -> sysadmin -> cloud engineer/architect or junior dev -> mid level dev -> senior dev

Given you're already established in a career, if I were in your position I would be loathe to follow that standard trajectory as in many ways I suspect it would feel like a step backwards.

Working out how to get a foot in the door when you're looking to make a shift is often the hardest part...

[topaz kindle]

Yeah.. I know I'm not as talented as that 15 year old coder who does it for fun but development was always an interesting intellectual exercise. You're right I don't want to take that step back but I guess I'll continue to apply to see if I can somehow lateral into a product/project owner/management kind of role so I guess I'll see what happens. Perhaps I'll just learn python for the fun of it and see what I can do with it on my own. I appreciate the feedback!

[solid parcel]

Python is certainly a useful tool to learn. If you're wanting to pick up programming, it's a great one to understand. My advice would be to tackle CS50 and then CS50 Python. That would give you the absolute bare bones of how to program.

Past that, when it comes to working out what skills to focus on developing, I'd start by identifying the type of role you're wanting to target. Go through a whole bunch of job postings for that kind of position, and note down the most commonly requested skills, tools, certifications and experience. It's often easier to work backwards from that end point rather than trying to extrapolate forward.

One of the great things with Python is that it's a brilliant 'glue' language. Fantastic for throwing together small scripts to pull information out from systems, for example.

A couple of weeks back I whipped up a script to help with some FinOps work, to make it easier for us to evaluate potential savings based on tweaks we could make to our infrastructure and commitments.

Took me a few hours to get the script together, and has likely already saved half a week of effort manually wrangling with the numbers.

[river blade]

Hey everyone!
I’m trying to switch from a Product Design role into Data Engineering / Azure DE / Databricks Engineering / GenAI Developer positions.

Right now I’m actively learning Azure, along with Python, SQL, and DSA. I’ve given around 6 interviews so far—kept getting stuck on the coding rounds, but honestly learning something new after every attempt.

If anyone has:

solid resources

beginner → job-ready project ideas

roadmap suggestions

or general tips to speed up the transition

…I’d really appreciate it.
Trying to get fully job-ready as quickly as possible. Thanks in advance!

[solid parcel]

Have you seen the roadmap?

https://roadmap.sh/data-engineer

I've not personally used the data engineer one, but the cloud and DevOps equivalents both make for a decent high level resource. Not something to be followed dogmatically, but useful directionally.

[teal verge]

Check out HiringCafe

thank you. That is an impressive site

[still condor]

!warn @trim yew Please read our rules and the channel description. You cannot look for jobs or offer jobs on this server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @trim yew.

[grave zealot]

great advice. i was planning on taking math honors, biology, chemistry, astronomy, AP psychology, and computer programming 1 next year. i dont know how realistic that rigorous of a courseload would be though

[peak halo]

hello, do you want to comment on this?

[hard token]

drop pyschology if you don't plan on taking it in university. Take a social studies so you can learn how reality works and not just your screen in front of you. I'm impressed your high school offers astronomy rather than just physics.

[near ocean]

is that AI generated?
wtf is mid-carcer average income

Data for academw
??

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/26/worst-paying-college-majors.html
Im gonna assume this is what you meant to post

uninformed, lazy doomposting should be bannable offense imho

[solid parcel]

carcer just looks like a typo of career. The data is from here

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:explore:outcomes-by-major

[near ocean]

anthropology on top is kinda weird
isnt the whole degree a ponzi scheme

honestly that kinda looks not that bad for CS and CE
unemployment is high but underemployment is low
the people who do find jobs get to use their skills and it also seems to suggest that things arent desperate enough for CS grads to have to go after lower skilled or unskilled positions the way something like biology majors do

[cyan locust]

guys what do u know about coms and ext

skidlol

[near ocean]

whats better, 7% unemployment for CS and 16% underemployment or 3% unemployment for biology and half your graduating class being cashiers or baristas or even humble lab slaves

or i guess whats worse lol, none of this is good

<@&831776746206265384> hey team is this ok?

[open ivy]

This is also my intuition:

1. Early on in a career the lack of precise experience is a huge disadvantage for cold apps. But you still can meet people who value your portfolio and social skills.
2. Later on networking is still important. But you get a huge edge: the ability to apply to jobs with a specific targeted match. So cold apps become more important.

[vapid jay]

I wanna know the best tracks in ai that help to get a job

[peak halo]

!warn 1029788272844607559 Your message was removed for hiring, which is not allowed.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @grim lintel.

[stray mauve]

Did anyone get the news about the prodigy child that had a PhD in quantum physics at the age of 15

[pine sleet]

it was me

[stray mauve]

U should have pinged me lol

[stray mauve]

Computer science is now hitting high unemployment rate

[near ocean]

It is high but CS grads are also significantly less underemployed than other majors, that means they don't settle for lower skilled jobs and that also kinda drives unemployment up

[near ocean]

Compare them to biology grads at 3% unemployment but ~50% underemployment

Maybe CS grads are kinda stubborn and wont take a job that doesnt fit their criteria?

I've definitely met that type in this major

[stray mauve]

U can have a CS degree but u are not specialized in a field

Like we have data engineering as a role in CS but they don't have in depth knowledge on how data engineering works or how to build data pipelines

[near ocean]

No bachelor degree is specialised in anything regardless of discipline

[stray mauve]

There are degree specialized in a field what are u yapping about

[near ocean]

Its a marketing ploy, you arent an expert or a specialist just cause you got a 3 year data eng/sci degree
90% of the syllabus is shared with CS anyway

Specialisation happens much later in ones career

[stray mauve]

CS degree doesn't do that much like that is why there's a difference between a CS degree and software engineering degree which is focus on the field

[near ocean]

There is virtually no difference between CS and SWE as far as degrees go
Their courses are 90% shared and you dont have better career outcomes for picking one over the other

If you want an actual hands on software degree you should look at software dev apprenticeships instead
(Degree apprenticeships specifically)

[stray mauve]

There's a difference between CS and computer engineering degree but do have a relationship y/n

[near ocean]

Is there a difference really? One might have you do more maths and the other might have you struggle with java servlets and tomcat for some reason

My university had a software eng degree, we had like all the same classes except they had a more product/framework/tooling based module and we had one more maths module

[stray mauve]

That's why there's a difference with the courses and the other focuses on the field why the other is broad

[near ocean]

One or two modules difference total between 2x 3year degrees is nothing
You dont get an edge off of it

[vocal stratus]

Looking for a serious coding buddy?
I’ve created a small server where every Sunday we talk, discuss doubts, and solve each other’s coding problems.
If you want in, DM me “SUNDAY” and I’ll send the link.

[stray mauve]

What degree u have

[near ocean]

CS

[fringe tundra]

i added python extension but the texts are stil like this how can i fix i asked AI and still cant understand

[fallen gyro]

Wrong channel. Make a help thread in #1035199133436354600

[weak creek]

hey guys

hello

@fringe tundra hey pickup the dm i wana talk abt

[peak halo]

this is the career discussion channel. please don't use this, or any other channel, to continue something that started off-server

[weak creek]

where is the gearnel channel ?

[peak halo]

for talking about python: #python-discussion
for talking about anything: #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[fringe tundra]

just question how much time did take you to learn %100 python?

[peak halo]

I haven't.

if there's anyone who "knows 100% of python", it's probably a relatively small subset of the cpython core team. and Guido probably isn't even one of them.

[fringe tundra]

hm

then how much time did take you to learn python?

[peak halo]

I haven't stopped, so we're going on... eight years, idk?

[fringe tundra]

in eight years did you learn more and important things in python i mean learning python in one year is enough but you wanted to learn more you extend the time?

[peak halo]

here's what I'm trying to convey to you: you never really "fully learn" something. so don't try to frame your progress as something quantifiable and which will be complete in a certain amount of time.

[fringe tundra]

ok i understand and do you have any advice for me? i started to learn coding new

[peak halo]

you will not passively learn anything from watching videos. or even from reading. you have to actively write code at all stages to apply what you're trying to learn.

[fringe tundra]

so you mean if i watch video i also need to write the code and learn and remember what its does?

[peak halo]

you probably shouldn't just copy the exact code from the video.
"remember" is close to "memorize". you shouldn't need to be memorizing anything. if you understand the building blocks of the language, you won't need to brute-force anything.

[fringe tundra]

hm okay thank you bro

[fringe sphinx]

Also, hang out in #python-discussion and ask questions when you get stuck. It's beginner friendly.

[stray mauve]

I see why u defending CS degree 😁

[near ocean]

CS and SWE degrees are 99% the same thing

you could pick randomly and you would not be worse off if you want to be a software developer
if you want to go into further studies you might wanna do CS from the start

[arctic vigil]

Man, what you guys think about a career in back-end using Python?
I have some pratice time with JS and PHP, but i started to use Flask for make some college projects and i like it.
Do you guys have some advice?

[tepid gust]

Why am I muted in vc

[true turtle]

hello, see #voice-verification

[sand patio]

SWE and CS are very similar, but CE is different (it's typically something like EE with a couple of CS courses)

but CE seems to vary wildly depending on the program

[sand patio]

my uni has a CS program with a set of "core" CS classes everyone needs to take (your usual DSA, systems, discrete, etc), and then "tracks" that let you pick electives that are bit more specialized (e.g we have a machine intelligence track which is focused more on statistics/probability courses, and a couple of other electives that are more "AI oriented", a systems track that's focused around lower level programming, etc). a lot of these tracks share a lot of courses, though, it's not really an in-depth specialization more than it is a few additional electives in an area that you might be interested in.

we have an "AI" degree which is pretty much just CS with a couple of probability and ethics courses thrown into the degree prgoam

I think job-wise you're going to be applying to pretty similar jobs anyways betwen a CS and SWE degree, it's not really going to differentiate you career-wise.

I imagine that any sort of in-depth specialization would usually require more education (e.g a masters or doctorate).

[stray mauve]

Sounds interesting maybe the CS course is different from other universities

[sand patio]

i don't think courses vary that much between unis, ours just separates these electives into "tracks"

most CS programs will give you the freedom to choose electives you're interested in, in various domains of software and CS.

[stray mauve]

Ik but CS degree is dying

[sand patio]

what does that mean?

lowkey, you'd be applying to the same types of jobs (SWE) regardless of whether you had a CS or SWE degree.

[stray mauve]

Like if u want to be a data engineer is it a good choice

[sand patio]

im sure you could apply to a data engineering job with a CS degree, they just might expect experience/projects that are more in line with what a data engineer might do.

my uni has a data science degree which, similar to AI, has a lot of overlap with our CS program--it's a bunch of CS courses coupled with some additional probability/statistics courses.

I'd just do CS and take electives that are more in line with what a DE might do, and maybe supplement that with a statistics minor.

[stray mauve]

Exactly

[sand patio]

right, it's not a limitation of the degree.

it kind of goes for any position; if you want to apply for a systems programming job, but have 0 projects or previous experience with systems related work, your chances probably aren't great.

[stray mauve]

U have said it all Computer science degree isn't that limited u just need to have additives or supplement it with projects to boost to career prospect in the field u want

[sand patio]

yeah, you should be doing stuff on your own--it's the same as if you had gone with the DS degree, or the AI degree.

a lot of these software jobs postings will typically ask for a list of "software-adjacent" degrees (e.g just looking at the first job post I could find, it says "Must be pursuing a Bachelor’s or Master's degree in Computer Science, Computer/Software Engineering, Mathematics, Physics, or any related field")

[stray mauve]

I think that's probably the reason why CS students don't get jobs at the end of the day because they don't build a good portfolio with projects

[sand patio]

yeah, if you don't do anything outside of school, you'll probably have trouble.

regardless of whether your degree was CS, DS, SWE, etc.

[stray mauve]

I'm currently focusing on Data engineering on my own

[sand patio]

that's a good idea

[open ivy]

Being aware of other people's sensitivities is a challenge. Particularly in tech where there are more autistic hypersensitivities to worry about.

It can be hard to detect sensitivity, because people often quietly shut down. But part of community-building (networking) is knowing how to accommodate. Part of being a good coworker.

[stray mauve]

I mean there are courses online and certificate from big tech companies like Microsoft, IBM and AWS

[sly ibex]

How is it dying when it remains the most popular degree?

[peak halo]

what do you mean by "popular"? number of people getting it per year? market demand for the degree? hype?

[sly ibex]

I see alot of people choosing a CS degree.

[peak halo]

sure, but that's anecdotal. the degree with the most graduates per year is psychology or business or something.

[sly ibex]

Because they are easy? If im correct.

People dont choose a CS degree because they dont like the heavy maths.

Some people think you do a CS degree just to "code" but I am sure its beyond that. Again, if im correct.

[peak halo]

pure computer science is just theoretical math stuff. a CS degree will involve a mix of pure CS and software design.

[sly ibex]

I went to a uni open day about a month ago. I got a whole idea on what is coming in my years of beginning computer science in September 2026

[near ocean]

you dont know that, it might be the case, it might also be the case that CS grads are too stuck up to work other jobs (as the underemployment rate shows) and would rather be unemployed

[stray mauve]

Saying this with your pfp being dark has to be funny

[sly ibex]

What does my PFP have to do with this?

[stray mauve]

Nvm

[near ocean]

Are you working on a cs degree?

[stray mauve]

Where are u from btw

[stray mauve]

I intended to do CE but CS degree is still good but I'm supplementing it so that it won't be hard to get a job

[near ocean]

Are you regretting doing a CS or a CE degree?

[stray mauve]

I shouldn't be regretting doing a CE degree because it's still a good choice

[near ocean]

Why are you doomposting about CS/CE degrees then

[stray mauve]

Just CS only not CE

[near ocean]

Why just CS

Do you think CE makes you more employable than a CS grad?

[stray mauve]

CE has more chances than CS however it's still possible to get a job with a CS degree if u know how to supplement it

[lilac yoke]

CE degrees vary wildly across colleges, I typically see double majors in EE and CE

most of the computer engineering courses are just half the CS curriculum and half the EE curriculum, better off just done one or the other

[stray mauve]

Students switching to CE since it is more optimistic than CS

[stray mauve]

EE is like a subfield in CE

[lilac yoke]

no, computer engineering is a subfield of electrical engineering

[stray mauve]

I don't think so

[stray mauve]

Sorry if I'm making u feel bad but CS degree is still good

[near ocean]

Im employed already my guy, with a CS degree

[stray mauve]

What is your niche

[true harness]

CE is much newer than EE though, and is specifically EE + computing

[stray mauve]

There's basically no difference between the field as one go in depth than the other

[stray mauve]

What is your job

[true harness]

what?

[near ocean]

I dont have a niche, i do webdev

[lilac yoke]

you'll be competing with people who have EE degrees and a substantial CE portfolio, or CS degrees and a substantial CE portfolio. both may be seen as more qualified

[stray mauve]

I don't how to rephrase it to u

[lilac yoke]

some schools do have exceptional CE programs though.

[stray mauve]

Huh wym u don't have a niche what company u working for

[near ocean]

My guy... Do you want my social security number too?

[stray mauve]

Lmao 🤣

[near ocean]

My mothers maiden name perhaps?

[stray mauve]

So u are from the USA

[true harness]

what about radars and antennas and such. those are EE and definitely not CE

[near ocean]

No

[stray mauve]

Wdym by I don't have a niche as a CS graduate

[near ocean]

Graduates dont have niches, theyre at the entry level

[stray mauve]

U don't still understand what I mean like I said I don't know how to rephrase it to u like a guy explain how these two are different

[stray mauve]

I like the cope

[near ocean]

How is it cope, the one coping is you saying that youre settling for a CS degree as if it isnt one of the most desired and prestigious degrees one can have

[stray mauve]

Where are u from bro

[near ocean]

Im not telling you where im from bro, im an immigrant it doesnt matter anyway

[stray mauve]

Desired and prestigious like u really know how to cope

[near ocean]

Are you a troll, is that whats happening

[stray mauve]

How am a troll I asked u where u are from u don't want to tell me like what are u afraid about

[near ocean]

Ofc its desired and prestigious otherwise we wouldnt have everyone and their dog trying to get one

[near ocean]

What is that going to tell you about me

[stray mauve]

Maybe where u live CS graduate can still get employed

[near ocean]

I live in london

[stray mauve]

That's great

[near ocean]

Where do you live

[stray mauve]

Africa

[near ocean]

And I guess cs grads have a hard time finding a job in africa?

[stray mauve]

Why say that

[lethal sierra]

You guys beefing?

[near ocean]

🤨 why are you complaining if thats not the case

[stray mauve]

Are u a CS graduate

[near ocean]

Yes

[stray mauve]

I see why u defending it that much

[near ocean]

Bro we've been over this already, did you forget?

[leaden jasper]

Y'all. What is going on here?

[lethal sierra]

Let them cook

[near ocean]

Trying to understand why @stray mauve is doomposting about cs degrees so much

[stray mauve]

I will probably do same ngl 😂

[near ocean]

I know africa is an entire continent but is it harder than average to find a job as a cs degree? Why are you saying that cs degrees are dying

[stray mauve]

I'm sure u alr have a master in CS😂

[sand patio]

you'll still need to supplement a CE degree

[leaden jasper]

Do you have an actual question or discussion topic?

[sand patio]

like, if you're applying for the same SWE job, im not sure how much the employer cares about whether you had a CE degree or a CS degree.

[near ocean]

The msc is a different subject, its not CS

[sand patio]

just like CS, especially in this job market, if you don't have any projects, experience, or any other sort of qualifications outside of just your degree, you're still going to not have a great chance.

[stray mauve]

I know but at entry level it's fine unlike CS

[sand patio]

regardless of the degree, if you're applying for the same type of job, you're competing in the same market.

[sand patio]

i don't think there's a difference

[leaden jasper]

What experience are you basing this world view on?

[sand patio]

like, you're still applying for the same SWE position

[stray mauve]

There's no difference between CE and CS

[sand patio]

they're different degrees. I'm talking about when you're applying for a SWE job.

they don't care so much about whether it's specifically CS or specifically CE, but rather that you have a degree that's relevant to the position in some way shape or form, and have additional qualifications that make you a good fit (e.g previous internships, projects, extracurriculars, etc)

[stray mauve]

It's dying because of AI revolution tho and u need to standout in the job market

[stray mauve]

Agreed

[near ocean]

Why are you doing a CS degree in this AI revolution

[leaden jasper]

I will ask one more time and I need a response. Career advice has a strong impact on people and we want to make sure people understand where advice is coming from.

What experience are you basing this on? Are you only seeing this in a particular geographic location?

[stray mauve]

Bro CS degree isn't that hyped again that's it

Anyone can get a CS degree

[sand patio]

leaving aside the "dying" part, I don't think having a CE degree as opposed to a CS degree is going to help you stand out much (if at all) when you're applying for a SWE job.

[stray mauve]

It's almost cheap

[lethal sierra]

I mean, anyone can get any degree

[stray mauve]

CS degree specifically because it's izy than CE

[near ocean]

I dont get it, you have these "insights" on the future of cs degrees and software dev, why are you still getting one

[sand patio]

that's more dependent on the school and program. the CS program at my uni is pretty difficult, and plenty of people drop out. it's not an easy major by any means.

[stray mauve]

I didn't say getting one is wrong but u just need to build a good profile from others that's it

[near ocean]

Why arent you getting a degree that doesnt require all these extra things then

[stray mauve]

CE will always be harder than CS in any school