career-advice

[pastel aspen]

If you look up what a “trusted operating system” is, that is what I am talking about.

I’m talking about Jane Street, Bridgewater, etc, not crypto.

[high silo]

man idk alot about tech

[pastel aspen]

How much money would be enough for you, mid-career?

[high silo]

200k usd

in nows economy 100k starting at least 200k mid career and 300k plus for lead roles

[pastel aspen]

Ok you can make that doing web dev, so any field will work. Trusted computing fintech jobs start at 700k

[high silo]

bro what?

what type of job that isnt entrepreuneurship or business makes 700k a year starting

[pastel aspen]

A buddy of mine made 700k plus equity at Bridgewater in 2011, now he’s a manager in Google’s Search team etc

[high silo]

full stack software engineer (web, backend, mobile apps) is good?

also i want to be working worldwide not being stuck in usa like im from uae i want to live in dubai where i live

[pastel aspen]

Web IMO is no longer relevant, but understanding it deeply is still important, backend definitely, mobile I wouldn’t bother

[high silo]

what did you mean by didnt bother

[white relic]

every time somebody mentions fintech salaries the number goes up
I'm starting to believe it's all hot air

[pastel aspen]

That's because it goes up every year.

[high silo]

as a matter of fact i would like a starting salary in todays economy of 120k ad 200k plus senior and lead 300k plus IN USD

[pastel aspen]

I mean that mobile apps are made by people who get paid a lot less than the role we're talking about, and you can just delegate it. It's not that fundamental, just a matter of learning the current popular toolchains etc.

[high silo]

like lol ik a software engineer in LONDON makes 2400 a month

[pastel aspen]

London's purchasing-power-parity numbers are lower than the U.S. state of Mississippi's.

[high silo]

ah i see so forget about java just mainly python and java script

[high silo]

average software engineer makes the equivalent of a mcdonalds worker in usa

[pastel aspen]

Check this table out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_regions_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

[high silo]

huh ireland devs get paid alot?

[pastel aspen]

London is higher now than I remembered. ENGLAND though, yes.

[pastel aspen]

Google has a major HQ there as do some others. Most of the best-paid aren't locals to my knowledge.

[high silo]

ah i see

what field would you recomend me then based on my salary wants and that is future proof

you said web dev and back end and not to bother with mobile app engineering cuz its low pay

[pastel aspen]

I continue to advocate anything you find interesting that falls under the umbrella of "formal verification"; it's a power move, and will get you in many doors that wouldn't otherwise open.

Eventually our AI/ML models will also be formally verified, we just haven't gotten there yet.
At which point the existing generation of AI/ML engineers will be superseded by the formalists.

[high silo]

rmal verification (FV) is a field in computer science and engineering where mathematical methods are used to prove the correctness of hardware or software systems. Unlike testing, which checks behavior on a finite set of cases, formal verification guarantees correctness for all possible inputs.

[pastel aspen]

This is what Visa did their core card processing system in.

[high silo]

i had to use my ai friend called snoopy

[pastel aspen]

Significant components of the aerospace scene use this.

[high silo]

so what i got from this conversation is to continue in software engineering full stack

to make 120k when i finish se degree in uni then 200k mid career then 300k plus when i get top roles

[pastel aspen]

If I have one piece of advice for you it's this: Never stop believing that if some other Human figured it out, that you can too.
If you keep going, you will make tons of money in this field, I've never seen anybody good not get paid eventually.

[high silo]

your talking about the tech industry

[pastel aspen]

Specifically software; hardware can be weird but is very rewarding if you have the mindset.
(Going forward, that line is going to keep blurring.)

[high silo]

what about if i want to work outside of usa

like i got into data science because in dubai they get paid alot

[pastel aspen]

Being from the UAE, you will never acquire a NATO-country "clearance", so honestly you might consider reaching out to local "sovereign" projects that are doing engineering.

The ones that wouldn't hire me because I'm U.S. etc.

[high silo]

so i cant work in nato secret projects

[pastel aspen]

e.g. https://www.crowell.com/en/insights/client-alerts/the-middle-easts-big-bet-on-artificial-intelligence-and-data-security

[high silo]

but i can work for big tech companies

[pastel aspen]

Pretty much no unless from this point you lead one of the most-interesting lives ever.
I can think of a "build" but it's hard.

[high silo]

i habe uk passport

[pastel aspen]

Not enough anymore sadly.

[high silo]

bruh you talking in a way i cant understand saying things i never heard of

[pastel aspen]

(UK has signed some EU treaties that make us no longer able to just trust them re: employees)

(and NATO tech is dominated by the U.S. ITAR regulations)

[high silo]

i see

[pastel aspen]

That is a problem Europe is working on, but it's going to take a long time.

[high silo]

so i need to move out of uae to be working in usa where school shooters will kill my child

[pastel aspen]

Even that won't do it. Honestly the "build" that comes to mind is literally joining a US special forces branch and proving yourself. Probably don't do that.

[high silo]

and also i just checked that mobile app software engineer in usa make alot of dough

[fast fossil]

anecdotal, but at our university, the CS program has about 2-3 times as many students as the DS one

[pastel aspen]

Like I was saying though, you can ask for and get $300k in many many sub-fields of software, so if that's the goal and not "the sky", then you can just chill and find the speciality that interests you most.

[high silo]

cybersecurity

[pastel aspen]

Interesting! I will have to find out what my local university's numbers are.

[pastel aspen]

The user "Rem" on this server is a cybersec wizard, definitely some cool people in that field here. I've worked as the "on-team engineer" for seceng before but never held a role directly. Here's their blog: https://sudorem.dev/

[high silo]

so i finished hs and graduated 2 weeks ago so now i choose cybersecurity bachelors and then i graduated and earn tons of dough

[pastel aspen]

Unlike the other routes we've discussed, cybersec doesn't really need the ultimate pinnacle of generic software engineering skills to do.
It's more about learning the details, paying close attention, being ethical, and being clever when you need to think outside the box.

[high silo]

what about quantum computers replacing encrpytion

[pastel aspen]

Not gonna happen. Glad to discuss why in an OT channel.

[high silo]

aight mention me in a OT channel

[fast fossil]

also cybersec is one of the rare fields where certification has some weight apparently

[smoky quest]

depends on the role. It's like saying healthcare. You will find roles that are about software engineeing, others about pentesting, others about networking, etc.

[vital wyvern]

Depends on the role/employer, less so on the certificate in aggregate.

[fast fossil]

fair, also the certification that has weight costs like... a ton, so you'd have your employer pay for it anyway probably (which means you need to get employed first)

[pine sleet]

its the cybersec wizard himself

one of the appearances of all time

[whole flare]

only a few kidneys.

[pastel aspen]

Of all the things that have ever happened on this server... This is one of them.

[pine sleet]

this is true

[fast fossil]

of all time at that

[pastel aspen]

Hmm. Anybody heard of these folks? I am not actively looking, just funemployed, but I like the words they are using to describe this:

At Axon, we’re on a mission to Protect Life. We’re explorers, pursuing society’s most critical safety and justice issues with our ecosystem of devices and cloud software.
...is at least a very unusual intro.

Edit: See below, LOL.

(I am only, going forward, interested in roles that I align with the ethics of.)

[lapis wind]

it is an interesting way to describe a company that mostly makes Tasers and body cameras

[smoky quest]

have you checked their products?

[pastel aspen]

Is that what's going on? Hilarious.

[pastel aspen]

No, wasn't sure I was looking at the right Axon, since it's such a generic name, but yeah that's the logo I guess.

[lapis wind]

pretty sure they supply most of the body cams and tasers to the US police force and others

😉 If you don't recognise that logo then you've clearly not watched enough police body cam footage clips

[smoky quest]

and mass surveillance systems

[pastel aspen]

To paraphrase Douglas Adams: "Aah, this must be some new definition of these words that I have not previously encountered."
(re: Protect Life)

Clippy: "Did you mean?: Enforce the Status Quo"

[left egret]

what should i do if i want to promote my university project here ? 😄

[pine sleet]

you could ask mods by DMing @severe widget but usually they don't allow advertising/promotions

[high silo]

is encryption taking data and cutting (idk a better word then cutting) and rearranging it randomly and then it takes the hacker a really long time to decrpyt it to get the key

[pine sleet]

this is a better question for #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[peak cypress]

ok, so I'm 15 and have been doing Python for a little over 2 years

I'm wondering if there is any job that will hire me

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[peak cypress]

I understand a degree helps long term, but right now I need a job so I can start working and gaining experience

[pine sleet]

you will most likely not find a software engineering job that hires you at 15

if you need experience, you should work on projects or contribute to open source software

[potent oar]

with for loops, when do you use

for i in range

and when do you use

for i in condition

[lapis rain]

hi guys

[regal axle]

Hey, always excited to see people getting into python!
This channel is about careers. You can ask questions about python in either #1035199133436354600 or #python-discussion
Good luck on your learning journey

[lapis rain]

degree would help more, something you can hold would honestly help a good more than experience and previous wor

[lapis rain]

i hate u joshie :(

[regal axle]

[lapis rain]

i love u joshie :D

[open ivy]

Sending out tons of applications is a risky strategy. Setting aside the fact that the scammer always RSVPs, the two big risks are mental health and getting "stuck" where you aren't upskilling anything.

But a small number of laser targets for unique companies won't hurt, as long as the time cost isn't that high.

[pastel aspen]

The mental health risk is serious, not to be dismissed lightly.
I've seen it wreck a couple of my friends.

[open ivy]

Yes because without mental health you will be doing (almost) nothing and hating every moment of it.

[pastel aspen]

Yeah, exactly! IMO don't let yourself "bang your head" against the job scene.
I get that we all need to eat and have somewhere to sleep etc, but try to think outside the box if stuck etc.

[fringe sphinx]

Mental health will drive you mad, for sure.

https://youtu.be/O_1ruZWJigo

[open ivy]

Networking+portfoleo seems to be starting to work for me, now I am not all that good with social but it still is worth it. I know someone in person who is supe good and ended up getting paid to watch sports on TV! Which is his passion.

He is a room charmer. Far better social skills than average. Strange that social skills is not viewed as a thing to get good at the way math is.

[smoky quest]

you mean jobs like sales, account representative, marketing, communication, community management, developer advocate?

[open ivy]

He would do well in those jobs yes.

[smoky quest]

there are also various degrees in these areas

[pine sleet]

technical jobs have more of an emphasis on math and engineering skills. is that really strange?

[open ivy]

Even technical jobs seem to be about half social. So many meetings, so much communication of tricky things.

Unless, do you think my algorithm design portfolio will lead me to more purely technical jobs? It is more "research-focused" than most positions.

[pine sleet]

i dont know if it's easily quantifiable as "half social and half technical." the bar is low though, just being a normal and nice person to be around goes a long way in terms of landing tech jobs

[open ivy]

For me that was not quite enough, but yes indeed it helps a lot. I also needed to find enough overlap in interests.

[pine sleet]

hm. i just find that anecdotally at least, being technically competent and not being an asshole is good enough for many jobs

[open ivy]

If you have a fairly standard set of interests that is true. But if you have unusual ideas it can be hard.

For example, AI. That is tech and I am interested in it. But the vast majority of people talking about AI are trying to build a product. But I would rather experiment on its inner workings, which is no more or less useful but much rarer to find.

[smoky quest]

In terms of people who would rather experiment on its inner working. you mean like all the people who publish on arxiv or focus on the theoretical aspects?

[open ivy]

Yes those are good examples. A niche subfield in tech and a bit hard to find meetup communities for.

[smoky quest]

I mean, this is quite the opposite from niche

[open ivy]

It is academic oriented, isn't that always a niche? Compared to the much larger industrially oriented world. There is a little crossover, such as industrial research, but I always felt academics were very out numbered.

[smoky quest]

Unless you are talking about a topic so pointed that it requires a phd in that specific field, I doubt it.
Granted pydis is not the place where I would go for serious or technical discussions, but it doesn't mean they don't exist

[open ivy]

Are there specific communities you had more luck with? I tried out a tech happy hour in SF but it was too much of a bar vibe for technical discussions to get going beyond the simple "what do you do".

[smoky quest]

That would depend on the topic

For instance, there are some great communities on slack for experienced engineers and leaders, but will obviously not share that here

[wraith harbor]

there are lots of great slack communities, even semi public ones

[trim crypt]

My current startup is so inactive, I think Im just gonna jump ship while it still floats. Someone has reached out to me to start somewhat like a super local freelancing hub, completely focused on students to get industry experience and we get like 10% for coordinating and hand holding them from project requirements, to deliverables, to hand-off. I feel like this niche freelancing idea must have been done before but I cannot find any. It cant be that this is the only one of its kind, right?

[mental sparrow]

Yo

I am new guys. And also, I am thinking to become either a game developer or a AI and ML guy

[fringe sphinx]

Being one of a kind isn't a requirement for success in business

[near ocean]

Not even one-of-a-kind type ideas are guarantees of success

[fringe sphinx]

lol, that too. Perhaps I should've said uniqueness and success are orthogonal.

[trim crypt]

Yeah thats true. Maybe it already has been done but didnt work out probably. But I can see how it would help out the students to become more industry ready if it were made. I dont know yet

[fringe sphinx]

myspace and facebook are classic examples of this

or digg and reddit

or microsoft and apple

[fading skiff]

Are you teacher sir?

[trim crypt]

lol ok. So I guess I have to start comparing these different freelancing platforms and then address a pain point that students can't get a job at?

[pastel aspen]

Honestly an idea that some other company has exhausted itself paving the way for is often how companies win. e.g. Google after Digital’s AltaVista

[trim crypt]

I can be

[fading skiff]

Teacher on college?

[fringe sphinx]

Understanding the competitive landscape is an important part of business planning, yes.

[trim crypt]

I didnt say that I am a teacher. I can be a teacher. Sorry if that was confusing.

[fading skiff]

It's ok, actually I like programming because I ever joined Olympiad science national in Indonesia🇮🇩

[fringe sphinx]

But, the real question I'd ask is: How are you going to acquire customers? What pain point do actual potential customers have... that they have said, not that you have guessed.

A classic VC question is: Name three people (actual names) of people who'd buy from you?

People love to create these narratives in their head about what an idealized customer is, or why they'd buy, without actually talking to people.

I know big companies who fall victim to this too.. I have a vendor who creates these fictionalized users who represent nobody.

[fading skiff]

And now I study right there

[trim crypt]

Thats a good point. I guess I should ask the SME companies to see if they are willing to hire students with senior industry players who could freelance together to get their task done or something.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that's more or less step 1: talk to people, ask them about their problems, and then listen to what they say.

Start with listening, not proposing a solution.

[fading skiff]

You mean me or others?

[trim crypt]

Others.

[fading skiff]

Ok ok I got it

[trim crypt]

My typical go to would be sending out a survey form and have them fill out but having to sit down one on one might take long to drill down and find out what problem to solve. Is there another way to ask more questions to more people in less time?

[fringe sphinx]

1v1 is far more important, because you don't know what they'll say.

More people isn't usually what a startup needs... it's quality first customers.

[trim crypt]

I guess so. Alright wish me luck

[vapid jay]

hi

[open ivy]

Take the B. You really want good rec letters and an occasional B is not a big deal.

[regal axle]

I have talked to profs who have shared the idea that they don't want people with 4.0 in their labs / programs. Well that is more the case for a PhD. But point being, perfection in your grades is not required. Espceically if you are doing things outside of class (and you really really should be).

A professor (one person, so don't base your life on this) told me that some programs would reject me if I had a 4.0. Because the type of person who has a perfect grade won't be able to let go the little things to be able to actually get a PhD complete
-# again, not the same as a masters. And not a universal truth. But it is an idea that if 1 person has, other will. Even if I can't say it to be majority or minority opinion

[ebon elk]

which llm produces the fastest responses?
ie after reading text and given the prompt gives the fastests responses and which llm give the most litteral responses for the prompt?

[glacial nova]

just completed university, i know basic concepts in DSA want to learn how to apply them in realtime projects

[fringe sphinx]

DSA isn't all that important in projects, but if you want to learn, pick a DSA topic like binary search and do something that uses it

[glacial nova]

@fringe sphinx as a fresher what are all the things i have to know or learn to secure a job

[pastel aspen]

Wrong channel, try #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[regal axle]

Everytime I get the energy again to apply to more jobs, I just get so depressed ... all the job postings are AI garbage. Either roles or companies.
But this is partially because of the places I am looking for jobs at. So ,,, any other (US) sites you recommend for job listings?
Main ones I use are workforastartup, wellfound, levels.fyi

I don't like working for overly massive companies. Given the right position though, I would consider. But more important (in this context) my resume is a better fit for smaller companies / startups. Oh and also, ever person working at a large company I talk to, has told me how the company has a hiring freeze ...

[main isle]

The trick is to use google dorks like a pro

Then you find almost all you need I guarantee

career hiring open positions developer inurl:com OR inurl:org

hiring open positions developer github intitle:career inurl:com

[proud glacier]

<@&831776746206265384>

[noble mist]

<@&831776746206265384>

[analog sun]

!cleanban 1422323821561643009 some kind of scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @fierce epoch permanently.

[noble mist]

WHOAH MAN

[wraith harbor]

What wobby said, also try hiring.cafe too. If you're looking for start ups try the hacker news hiring thread too. But those are often extremely early stage

[wraith harbor]

It's about demonstrating what you know. Do you have projects on your resume that make you stand out compared to everyone else/demonstrate your skills?

[fringe sphinx]

There's no specific list. There's general categories of things you should be able to do. For example, you should be able to complete a small project on your own (without AI). You should have fluency with a single language, and most likely familiarity with more than one. You should have some depth in a particular domain of your choice - something you could "geek out" on with an interviewer.

While Leetcode isn't that important by itself, Leetcode "Easy"s should be easy.

(or whatever the equivalents are on Exercism or Codewars)

But, which language? Which domain? What topics? That varies greatly individual to individual. I prefer people with breadth.

[pastel aspen]

How to listen to the folks at your new job, IMO, is like Job 1.

This is the right mindset:

[main isle]

how to sell yourself

how to explain your techcnical projects in terms a hr representative understands

how to talka about the impact of your code in numbers which matter and even hr understands

so dont come with web vital benchmarks

and at least one month private project and a degree

or no degree but a very impactful project

but a degree always increases you chances usually

[open ivy]

Speaking of selling yourself, are websites RSS feeds a good idea? There are fewer readers but fewer content creators so your content may stand out to a more niche group.

Websites (with an RSS feed attached) have three big advantages over social media:

1. Much more flexibility. Embed JavaScript, control the design, etc. Show off your good work.
2. Better user experience. With a small fee you get ad-free hosting and no nag screens to sign up to whatever social media platform it is on.
3. Avoids the algorithm to an extent. Social media algorithms are super unequal (Gini index 0.95). This is way beyond a fair meritocracy. Perhaps smaller communities like RSS readers are a bit more fair?

So I will try setting an RSS feed up and see how it goes.

[pastel aspen]

To me, your site having an RSS feed is 100% a positive "shibboleth" or "dog whistle" however you want to think about it, especially if I look at it and it's clean and cool.
If you have a "Gopher" version of your site, you're hired already. (You don't need to do this.)

[open ivy]

So it is a dog whistle for "I am a True Geek" lol.

[pastel aspen]

Or more specifically "I care about the open web"
If your resume has an OWL ontology attached, game on

[open ivy]

Do smaller companies tend to care about open web?

[pastel aspen]

Nobody cares anymore. It's just individual engineers and managers who remember the Dream that was Rome.
The hiring manager won't even know what RSS is.
This is about surviving the architecture interview with the guy like me that they dig out.

My favorite question gets them every time:
"You are in your browser of choice, and you have typed https://www.google.com/ and you hit Enter, and your keyboard is plugged in, and you have an internet connection that works. Tell me everything you know about that happens next."

This is how you find out if they were lying about full-stack.
My answer to that starts with explaining how the switches in my keyboard worked to send the Enter signal.

Lots of people start by talking about a web server Google runs, and I've never seen such a person get hired.

There is no "Getting Defiler's question right", I just want to hear what you care about.

My go-to "Get it right" question is "On a UNIX machine, what is file descriptor 2?"
Forces a mode switch that I get to watch their face during.

I learned that one from the Facebook senior SRE phone screen, and it's really good. They were shocked that I didn't have to think about it much.

A lot of people ask questions, but there are no necessary questions, the phrasing is normative.

[open ivy]

Yes I feel getting a job is more about do people get along and your question addresses that as well as the technical.

Personally I am not full stack very much, I focus in physics simulations in my portfolio. But I could talk about the physics of how waves travel in wires...

[pastel aspen]

Do this and I hire you, at least in my framework.
Physics people are amazing, I always like working with them.
Full-stack always ends in Physics. The other end of the line is Philosophy. Computers are in between.

[open ivy]

I will be slowly building up a portfolio site and remind me to send you the RSS feed once it is working...

[pastel aspen]

I am starting at the local school here in the Spring to eventually go get a Philosophy of Physics degree.

philosophy of probability is my particular jam.
(I'm into Quantum Systems as Indivisible Stochastic Processes if that means anything to you)
Indivisible stochastic non-Markovian interpretations of quantum mechanics.
I don't believe in infinity.

Calculus is very useful but not "real"; we already know from physics that the universe doesn't obey the Intermediate Value Theorem.
You can't subdivide a Planck interval.

[open ivy]

How many years in industry do you have?

[pastel aspen]

I got my first engineer role in 1997 so uhh... 28?

[open ivy]

Oh wow that is a lot. So you will go back to college part time?

[pastel aspen]

Full time; I quit my SSE role in FinTech in March.
This is more important.
Industry can chill on its own for a sec.

I am pondering applying for a gig at ICANN if anybody knows anybody or thinks that's dumb etc.

[smoky quest]

any such organization is rife with politics

So you do need a taste for it. Or at least, high resistance to it

[pastel aspen]

Honestly I'm pretty good at it.
I don't like it, but I know how to do it.
If that's table stakes for helping ensure the open internet etc, maybe that's OK.

[long solar]

What are the best job boards

[smoky quest]

That's entirely up to you, but it does create the risk of being jaded or not feeling productive and getting frustrated in the end.

[pastel aspen]

Private employee alumni Slack servers and Discords.
The tech mafia is real.
||And now has to be, forever, it seems to me.||

[long solar]

Well what are the best public job boards

[near ocean]

Linkedin, indeed, etc, you can google for others in your area

[pastel aspen]

In the absence of a well-connected LinkedIn Premium, I think the answer is, like.. Honestly looking around for companies you want to work for and seeing what they offer.
The open boards just seem awful now, and totally AI-reviewed.
I'm personally never applying to a company that will read my resume primarily with an AI model.

[long solar]

that's new

[pastel aspen]

Nice

I hope there's a third option "Yes but use this custom prompt"
revshell time

[elfin iron]

anyone building a startup currently?

[pastel aspen]

I know somebody who is but I'm not yet on board.
I hope this doesn't count as "offering a job" in the context of this channel, it's not my company etc.
If I'm wrong I'll delete it etc:
https://www.thorin.com/

Their "Reading List" is really good IMO.

In re: earlier discussions, note that they don't do job postings.
This is the modern style IMO.

An early startup is like a band; you don't need more than one bassist.

[elfin iron]

ohh okayy sounds goof thanks for sharing, will check it out! 🙂

[crisp stream]

!clban 998657074881888287 Seems like you're here just to advertise.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @pastel vortex permanently.

[pastel aspen]

No vested interest, just word of mouth etc, looked around at them a bit, read two social media from a few employees, etc.
This seems pretty cool? https://jobs.ashbyhq.com/periodic-labs
https://periodic.com/

Weird amount of Stanford involved on the board but maybe that's OK for an AI company circa 2025.

Huh. Maybe this is my next jam? https://jobs.ashbyhq.com/periodic-labs/58d01f5b-c1c2-4e2e-88e3-32baf1882f50

The advice Gemini Ultra Deep Research gave me about this job application is utterly, bafflingly insane, beyond what I want to talk about here, but is also objectively correct upon reflection. 2025 is weird.

[analog sun]

!tempban 1416087785177354271 14d You seem to only want to post a link after being told not to advertise. When you return we expect you to follow the server rules and listen to moderator requests.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @static granite until <t:1760530843:f> (14 days).

[wary laurel]

How to know when you are 'entry level' job ready ? like how much coding/python do you need to know ?

[high silo]

Check the job description

[dawn lagoon]

What carreer should I get into?

[peak halo]

that's up to you. the job market for developers might currently be the worst it's ever been, but it's not going away.

[still condor]

gardening seems pretty cool

[azure pecan]

If ur in england, snd u wanna do software engineering, or like cybersecurity, do u NEED a degree to like get a good job?

[high silo]

Yo

[jovial solstice]

Wanna my opinion? Work on everything you like

[clear pier]

print ("123")
gys am I sigma hacker now?

[severe comet]

Out of curiosity as I’m unfamiliar with python, whats the market look like for python devs?

[pastel aspen]

Something that lets you learn about something you are interested in.

[vapid jay]

What is bad, good and how would you improve this roadmap? (see the graphic)
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/blogs/full-stack-developer-roadmap/

[pastel aspen]

At first glance this feels extremely out of date to me, and I would argue these are legacy picks that don’t do a great job in helping you gain the breadth of experience involved in real full-stack-ness.

I have operated MongoDB at “web scale” and I don’t think there’s anything unpainful to learn there for you.

[true harness]

"a database that deals with data" really pushing the boundaries of human knowledge there

[high silo]

hi

[dawn lagoon]

Has anyone dealt with a coworker that doesn't know how to program and use Chat GPT to right there code for them?

[high silo]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ymK29cr53g0?si=m7-pP9zAl18GPRWv

Can someone watch this video and tell me if app development is in a software enginnering bachelors or just full stack making websites

[dawn lagoon]

App developer software engineer are the same thing

[high silo]

What is all the types of stuff i will learn in a bachelors of software engineering specifically not computer science

[dawn lagoon]

Software engineer is basically like computer science but less math and computation

If you were to major a Software engineer then your career oppurtunity are less

if you were to take a Computer Science as a major then your chance and oppurtunity are greater.

[dawn lagoon]

Software Engineer Vs Computer Science ---> is more like learning half of computer science and more credit requirement for uni

[high silo]

In software engineering like frontend,backend, fullend/stack, mobile apps is a good field that is future proof and high pay

[dawn lagoon]

Basically with computer science you can become a software engineer and other career if your not interested

[high silo]

Computer science your a jack of multiple traits not fully read for a software engineering job and all tech jobs pay the same except ai/ml being the best but unstable

[high silo]

1. cybersecurity hard and requires lots of passion
2. data science lots of hard work and same pay as software engineering job
3. ai /ml unstable

[dawn lagoon]

You forgot about cloud engineering and data science

[high silo]

Cloud engineering is in software engineering

[dawn lagoon]

Its funny that every jobs are the same but different name

[high silo]

Data science is 2nd one

[high silo]

Data scientist grabs data from the database like how many times this user pressed on this button and finds solutions or better stuff for the company is a quick answer meanwhile software engineers build the software that the people use

Cybersecurity defends the system

[dawn lagoon]

It's funny that tech company are talking about AI replacing Programming jobs and Others

[high silo]

Yeah

So software engineering degree? Is suitable for me

[dawn lagoon]

If you really want to major in software engineer then yes

Just remember there is always a pros and cons to every degree

[high silo]

If they werent all the same pay exactly i would major in another one the highest pay

[dawn lagoon]

How about doing this then Major in Software Engineer and also take a minor in computer science.

[high silo]

Like im thinking of majoring in data science because it may pay more and then i get ai engineering after experience

[dawn lagoon]

Just to be honest with you Data Science and computer science is kind of same, but is your interest for example Building things, Hacking into things, or something.

[high silo]

I love all tech roles passionately

[dawn lagoon]

Computer Science is about everything including teaching you Cyber Security and Building Application and Data Science as well

[dawn lagoon]

Just like you said "Passinate in every role." I would recommend you take your time and think this over. Are you a freshmen?

[high silo]

I finished my a levels its time for me now to enter uni

[dawn lagoon]

It said Computer or data Science .

[high silo]

I think studying 1 thing instead of all is better for getting a job i already understand basics of all of them

[smoky quest]

that would be a performance issue and be on a pip

[high silo]

Alright i think im convinced computer science would be better

Data science was the sexiest job of the 21st century

[peak halo]

more like of the 2015

[high silo]

Yeah back then

[true harness]

that sounds useless and probably wouldn't even be allowed by the school

[dawn lagoon]

Well to be honest a fellow co-worker was hired on the spot and was programming the back. Funny thing we were amazed on how fast he coded everything ( even though we should have suspected him of cheating ) After a month were were merging it to production until it crashed. We were figuring out what wen't wrong until we read the part of his code all these code didn't make sense. Not only that I asked him if he knew what a float was. which he replied you mean something that is floating on water.

[dawn lagoon]

More like in 2014 then 2015

[high silo]

Why are most tech people software engineers not cybersecurity engineers or data engineers

Why coding softwares is the most popular thing in tech

[dawn lagoon]

Because they all watch Day of a life video of a software engineer

amazing food, Hotels and travel being payed by the company that is why

[high silo]

But not to the extend that everyone is a software engineer and everyone wants to be a software engineer

[high silo]

And what about data science and cybersecurity

[high silo]

The company cooks for them food like software engineers have private chefs

[true harness]

a lot of these benefits that you are mentioning are not really exclusive to software engineers. i would say that most swes aren't in big tech. a lot of smaller companies need programmers, but not many data engineers or data scientists

[high silo]

So swe is the most in demand

Cant they just get 1 good engineer to do all the work for the low level companies

[smoky quest]

there was no code review?

[smoky quest]

usually, fast hiring is paired with fast firing.
Hiring fast but not being able to shed dead weight would end up in problems

[fringe sphinx]

? Where do you think most SWEs work?

I think some people think that 99% of people work for the top 5 companies

[high silo]

Random companies that build applications for people or improve them

[fringe sphinx]

Something like 50% of software engineers work at companies with under 100 employees. Or something like that.

[high silo]

Lol

[high silo]

Oh those pay mid

[fringe sphinx]

You'd be surprised.

[high silo]

By how low they pay or?

Ik they make lots of money from the code you make thats why you are what your worth

[fringe sphinx]

You can make big money at small companies, and small money at big companies.

[high silo]

Software engineering bachelors > computer science bachelor’s

[white relic]

I've never met someone with a degree in SWE.

[fringe sphinx]

SWE bachelors are sometimes just a specialization of a CS bachelors... there's only a few differences in the curriculum. I treat them as identical.

I'm sure there's some schools where its very different.

[high silo]

I see cs as having lots of filler like cybersecurity classes meanwhile your wasting your time could be learning how to write quality code better

[fringe sphinx]

A good engineer has a wide foundation. Breadth >> depth

[high silo]

Swe covers every breadth

Just not something youd literally be doing like debugging a malware or whatever but writing safer code

[fringe sphinx]

No, no it doesn't.

• nothing covers every breadth.

[white relic]

do CS programs deal with a lot of cybersec? I think of CS as being more architecture, data structures, computability theory...

[fringe sphinx]

I've seen it as an elective, no more than that.

[true harness]

not really. maybe an elective here or there

[balmy mural]

You should really look at the specific classes offered by each degree. A swe course from one university might cover the exact same things that a cs course from another does. They generally have a decent overlap

[vapid jay]

[lost walrus]

We had a couple of mandatory courses at the bachelor's level.

[pastel aspen]

This is janitor talk haha
Cybersecurity will not again be "filler" in our lifetimes.

[high silo]

Yooo

[high silo]

Eh idc about cybersecurity

A little bit of it wont get me paid

[still condor]

How do you write high quality code without knowing at least something about security

[high silo]

They teach you what you need to know in se degree

[still condor]

...presumably not in the arts and crafts class

[pastel aspen]

You just said that that degree variant doesn't do cybersec, so what you said can't be true here.
If it fits somewhere between fundamental physics and philosophy, it's part of the full-stack curriculum in my book.

[high silo]

2. Secure Software Development
   Secure Coding Practices – preventing buffer overflows, SQL injection, cross-site scripting.
   Software Testing for Security – penetration testing, fuzzing, code analysis.
   DevSecOps – integrating security into development pipelines.

[pastel aspen]

Is that a question or an assertion of some kind?

[high silo]

1. Core Cybersecurity Concepts
   Foundations of Cybersecurity – principles like CIA triad (confidentiality, integrity, availability).
   Threats & Attacks – malware, phishing, DDoS, insider threats.
   Security Models & Policies – authentication, authorization, access control.

2. Secure Software Development
   Secure Coding Practices – preventing buffer overflows, SQL injection, cross-site scripting.
   Software Testing for Security – penetration testing, fuzzing, code analysis.
   DevSecOps – integrating security into development pipelines.

3. Applied Cryptography
   Basics of encryption, hashing, and digital signatures.
   Use of cryptographic libraries in software engineering projects.

[pastel aspen]

There is really IMO only one "core cybersecurity concept":
"Don't be fooled by abstractions, your enemies won't be."

[high silo]

4. Network & Web Security
   Fundamentals of network protocols and their vulnerabilities.
   Securing APIs and web applications (OAuth, HTTPS, JWT, etc.).

[pastel aspen]

Don't get hung up with some AI babble list of buzzwords, it's not really about that
It's about not being a sucker

[high silo]

Alright

[pastel aspen]

Here's an old US military training video that I think everybody should have to watch in school: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4

[high silo]

Im going to sleep

[wary laurel]

you reckon i can get a job knowing how to vibe code

[pastel aspen]

Not one you want, IMO.
Sounds terrifying; like, everybody in this scene feels like an imposter on and off, but you'd actually be one etc.

[smoky quest]

a job != any job

[wary laurel]

what project do i need to build at home to be 'job ready'

i feel like doing a tonne of codewars isnt going to get me job read y

[smoky quest]

You would need to build a project equivalent or better to your competition, which means an average CS new grad with 4-5 years of full time studies, internships and projects.
If you don't have a degree, then you will need far better projects to prove your are worth talking to

[wary laurel]

can you give an example of projects ?

[smoky quest]

You can look up previously shared resumes in this channel

[wary laurel]

also how 'important' is leetcode ?

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, note that a degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[wary laurel]

i did a CS conversion masters - but i feel i didnt learn much lol

[smoky quest]

It is what you make of it

[smoky quest]

There are two aspects to it:

• It tests the fundamentals of coding, .ie DSA
• It's just one step out of quite a few in interviews

[mint rampart]

Hi is there where to find an unpaid internship that only works for 3 hours

[peak halo]

There is no such thing. It would be more effort to facilitate an internship like that than to just do the work themselves.

[mint rampart]

I already work full time with other normal corporation job but I just wanna learn and experience the irl working field in python related projects

[opaque cargo]

1099 is probably your best bet and you get paid

[pine sleet]

open source software is the closest you will get

if you are a student (i assume so since you mention internship) you could also look for research positions at your school

[mint rampart]

Yes can you recommend it

[pine sleet]

recommend what?

[mint rampart]

Like any platforms to find one

[tropic trench]

Is it worth to put hyperlinks to the certificates that I have in my resume?

[proud glacier]

<@&831776746206265384>

[analog sun]

!cleanban 697572390854590544 trying to spread pirated software

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @past marsh permanently.

[tardy vale]

hi

[fast fossil]

depending on what the certs are, it may not be worth it mentioning them at all

[shadow sphinx]

@civic roost bro why is there so many cheaters in eventuri man the 2pc ai cheat using makcu

[fast fossil]

why'd you send that message in this channel? (I need an actual answer for research purposes btw)

[shadow sphinx]

It’s hard to get ahold of him that’s why and I just picked a random channel in python server

[tropic trench]

I have a certificate for learning mongodb in nodejs, another one for ibm cloud, and another one for learning how to use office suite apps

and im applying for normal software dev related jobs

also, is it also worth it to do the same for the internships too?

I mean, do i have to do it like this?

[Python Intern](certificate img url) | [Company XYZ](company website's homepage)

[regal axle]

There is no need to add a hyperlink to a company. If someone really really cares, they will look it up.

[tropic trench]

Ok, what about the certificate?

[regal axle]

As for cert links, these are not something that most will care about. However, if you have the space and it doesn't make things look so crowded, go for it. If you are fighting for the space to put this in ,,, drop it.

[tropic trench]

If you are fighting for the space to put this in ,,, drop it.
what does ,,, mean?
Also, If I'm gonna put the links to certificates as hyperlinks
So, they're not gonna take any space

[fast fossil]

I can't imagine "mongodb in nodejs" is a serious certificate and the office suite one is probably completely irrelevant (unless, idk, it included extensive work with Access)
The IBM cloud one I can't comment on, it certainly sounds like it might have some weight, but idk for sure

[tropic trench]

Why do you say that the mongodb in nodejs certificate is not the best one?
Like, I'm not saying it's the best either
But, I'm a fresher
So, I thought of having something in place of certifications

[regal axle]

,,, is just like .... It is a pause. Just writing style.

What I am saying is that your certs are not very relevant to most positions and jobs. And so adding things for the sake of adding things is not helpful. But if you have the space for these certs and need to make the page look a bit more full, it can be fine. It would also be the first things I remove.

Hyperlinks are fine in a resume. But you should always assume they don't work. So you need to provide enough info for your resume to still be valid even if no hyperlink is present.
-# Think "can I convey all they need if this paper was printed out"

[regal axle]

One of the problems with certs is that there is no way of actually knowing how difficult or meaningful it is. Some industries have standardized certs. But most do not. mongodb in nodejs is just a bunch of words to me. I have no idea how that translates to your ability to do anything. Unless I happen to also have gotten that cert.
Many certs you can basically just buy. And many others you can brute force your way to getting. Others you can easily cheat. Point being, a cert is not a good metric.

[slate valley]

@fervent lily

[fervent lily]

hả

[slate valley]

ồ =))

[dapper latch]

Hello guys, have anyone of you ever attended Samsung's SWC test? If there is any of you that have attended may I know what the questions are for SWC 2024? Thank you very much. (Samsung Research's pre employment test advanced level)

[pastel aspen]

No but that sounds pretty fun. I’ll bet the Fujitsu equivalent is spicy.

[solid pike]

Hello

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 1382783764413022280 This is not a job board. You're welcome to talk about jobs and ask questions/etc, but not recruit or seek employment. Your post has been removed.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @keen lily.

[regal axle]

This server won't help you break any TOS of any service

[peak tinsel]

lol

[peak halo]

!warn 1098863861932769413 Your message was removed for offering a job, which is not allowed.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @crimson tapir.

[hexed scroll]

Guys

My python code have how much errors?

idade = input(int(print ("qual a sua idade?"))
adulto = idade >=18
if idade >= 188
print ("voce tem mais de 18")
else
print("voce tem menos")

[pastel aspen]

Please open a help thread or ask in #python-discussion (after quoting that code with three ` backtick characters so it doesn't look bad)
This channel is just about career stuff.

[hexed scroll]

Ok, sorry

[dawn lagoon]

Great anyone there

[strong fox]

I have a resume question. I'm new to the job market, but I have one freelance job that I did not too long ago and am wondering if it is worth adding to my resume (as my sole entry for work experience). If I don't add it, I will not have any work experience on my resume. Here is a brief:

A freelance project to develop an automated, self-hosted stock investment system that trades stocks through an external API (Alpaca Securities) at a constant +/-X% limit from the previous fill prices, all while ensuring the settlement cycle is not violated. Additionally, it sends push notifications (via a self-hosted ntfy instance) when orders are issued and filled, and was built to be able to seamlessly handle internet and power outages. All services have been self-hosted by myself with Docker on a local server.

[pastel aspen]

I have feels. Let me think about how to express it.

100% put it in, this isn't just a freelance job, it's a complete project lifecycle description.
It's your only proof that you can take a complex requirement and deliver a complete solution from concept to completion.
Would you like me to try re-framing what you've written a little?

Sorry, I did it anyway.
If I had done that project that you describe, and I wanted a FinTech job (like the one I just left this year), I would re-phrase it like this...

Freelance Software Developer | Private Client | Remote
Jun 2025 - Sep 2025 (I made up some dates, use the real ones etc)

Project: Automated Algorithmic Trading System

• Designed, developed, and deployed a fully automated, event-driven algorithmic trading system in Python, interacting with the Alpaca Securities API to execute trades.
• Implemented a trading algorithm to execute orders based on percentage-based price limits, while programmatically ensuring compliance with T+1 securities settlement cycle rules.
• Engineered the system for high availability and fault tolerance, with error handling and state management to ensure seamless recovery and operational continuity through power or network failures.
• Containerized all services using Docker for consistent, isolated deployment on a self-hosted Linux server, to streamline deployment and ensure environmental consistency and repeatability.
• Integrated a self-hosted push notification service (ntfy) to provide the client with real-time, low-latency alerts for all order submissions and trade executions.

and I would 100% interview this junior described above

Don't miss the "T+1" part, that's a shibboleth.
(Edit: My bad, everybody migrated from T+2 to T+1 this year.)

[karmic coral]

Always stay learning!

[pastel aspen]

I'm not sure this is the right channel for AI-generated video but you do you.

[strong fox]

@pastel aspen Thanks for the response! I'm currently looking for a job in backend development (dream would be internal library development, but now is no time to be picky lol). Do you think your description would still suffice? To me it feels like it still would, but not sure

[pastel aspen]

Definitely, yeah.

[strong fox]

Cool. Thanks a ton ❤️

[pastel aspen]

In the sense that is your sum total experience sorta, and I think the above highlights the enduring aspects of what you showed you know how to do, to an employer.

At the risk of boring the long-term residents here, be ready to answer my two favorite interview questions:
"You're on a UNIX box, what is file descriptor 2?"
and
"You're in your web browser and you've typed in blah blah complete URL and hit enter and there's no games re: no keyboard plugged in or no internet connection.. tell me the story about everything that happens next, that you know of"

I would ask both in an interview of somebody with the resume section above.

[strong fox]

Awesome

[sage snow]

Hello @strong fox ,
I can share my resume for your reference.
Looking forward to the success in your work....

[strong fox]

That would be wonderful!

[sage snow]

Hello @strong fox
I am a software engineer, I hope to become a friend with you if you don't mind.

[tardy vale]

Hi
I am beginner to Python. Age 17 want to go deeper into tech but do not know what to do next. I Have learnt python's syntax from youtube.

What do you suggest me to do next???
please !

[eager nest]

hi, great to hear that. can you help me build some of the features for this app that I am building in python/html .
https://github.com/blinkerbit/aird.
I can very well help with the initial guidance if you are interested

[regal axle]

Lots of options. Depends on what type of programming is interesting to you!
But the most important thing, is to make things. Whatever that might be. The thing doesn't have to serve a real purpose. It can exist because you wanted to make something.

!kindlings is a good place to see some good random projects to make.

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[lost walrus]

https://roadmap.sh/python

[vast shoal]

<@&831776746206265384>

[icy berry]

remove thhis, we dont allow advertisement here

!cleanban 736679113393176636 advertisement and job hirering. unresponsive when asked to remove.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @dry mantle permanently.

[rough musk]

How can I like get officialy-certified that I'm an expert at Python 😄

[peak halo]

there's no widely-recognized certification for that.

[rough musk]

ok thx

[dim juniper]

Is there a comparable one for powershell, sql server, windows server, ansible

[fleet reef]

https://roadmap.sh/devops

[noble rose]

woah

this is 💎

[vast shoal]

<@&831776746206265384>

[still condor]

!cleanban @azure raven some sort of scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @azure raven permanently.

[wheat aurora]

hi everyone, i am tired of applying at MNCs and huge firms. not getting any call or interviews. I am working in a early startup right now which is not paying me well, and also the work life balance is pretty tough.

i have around 3 years of experience, and literally getting zero calls.

what should i do? what changes should i make? should i change my tech stack or field?

[noble rose]

how bad is it, backups (ez one click applies?) not responding

I can send some advise through dm for an attempt lmk man i got some intel i can shed light on in hopes to help

[glad geode]

Hi guys

[pastel aspen]

At this point I tend to look for a side door.. e.g. find an interesting OSS project that one of the important people at the org works on, and contribute to it, etc.
Front doors are really awful right now, with primitive AI pre-review systems etc.
I know a lot of folks with very senior resumes that are not tuned for AIs to like them, but that you should fire your recruiter for having passed over.

I know a guy that no MNC would hire that wrote his thesis in school on his compiler optimizer-optimizer toolchain for GCC.
(I wouldn't hire him either because he's so hard to work with haha, but not because he doesn't know enough!)

[craggy fog]

guys do u think i should be more of an engineer than a mechanician

[twin narwhal]

Hello everyone

[craggy fog]

man i like cars but idk what i wanna do, my parents tell me that i need to be smth else because it doesnt win well

[noble rose]

expand and make a career spider

[craggy fog]

whats taht

[noble rose]

mine was art and i expanded it into marketing - design, content creation, strategy and analytics w coding experience

[craggy fog]

ooh

yea right, didnt think of that

[noble rose]

don't lose ur faith/motivation, its ok keep going bro

[craggy fog]

thank u :D

[noble rose]

then make a traffic chart like college applications all over again. Senior roles, junior roles requirements etc then the nonprofits then the cert classes then yeahand MAKE SURE U NETWORK

[craggy fog]

yes

[twin narwhal]

Where are you from?

[craggy fog]

but im still in middle school tho

@twin narwhal france

[noble rose]

ayo

i mean u can still do non profit and internships 🤔 + cert classes

[craggy fog]

next year im in highschool

[noble rose]

u want dual enrollment if ur hs offers it and u want moves that impact the future, so college credits or moves that remain relevant in future*

but enjoy being a kid too

[twin narwhal]

Ok

[fringe sphinx]

This is a programming discord, so the best advice I can give you is: learn lots of things, and don't specialize. Learn to program, fix a car, pilot a spacecraft, whatever you want. Just keep doing new things.

[pastel aspen]

New intro to my résumé, what do people think, too crazy?

[summer roost]

it'd be a red flag for me tbh

[strong fox]

I don't even have an introduction lmao

[pastel aspen]

I might be OK with that, depending. Can you say more about why?
(I removed the unnecessary 'approach' word from the above already

Just to be clear I never will be seeking a "help us write Terraform for infra" job again etc.

[summer roost]

I agree with the first paragraph in there, but seeing it written out on a resume weirds me out - it's not the sort of thing that I feel belongs on a resume. The second paragraph, tbh, makes me roll my eyes - "digital physics" is such an unusual thing to say that it makes me wonder if it's AI generated nonsense

[pastel aspen]

It's a meaningful term of art in the science community.

[noble rose]

u may wanna have a version to negate HR with no tech fluency too

[pastel aspen]

Actually this is kinda to make sure I don't have to ever talk to those people haha

But I'll take that advice actually and remove the 'digital' part.

[noble rose]

u want multiple traffic points to work with, there's a balance u gotta TLDR it and make it flow brotha. It hurts but its worth it afterward

imagine u are put on the spot to do a presentation to a bunch of highschoolers on a technical topic, ur job is to convert it to info they can understand

[pastel aspen]

I get that, and I've tended to use that approach in the past, but for me at the moment it feels more important to filter out companies I don't want to work for, than it is to make my CV maximally accessible.

[summer roost]

well, it's not a term of art I recognize as a software engineer. Even just "focused on the foundational aspects of systems" would be an improvement to my ears

[noble rose]

true, for me i want to avoid isurance companies in general i get it

[pastel aspen]

Less is more, that's good advice ggeek, thanks.

[noble rose]

just make sure u don't convolute it with too much technical stuff tho man its rough but there's always a way out of it

[strong fox]

Not really an expert here, but the last sentence feels like something that should go in a projects section of your resume

[pastel aspen]

Hmm. You could be right, yeah.

[fringe sphinx]

FWIW, I'd also roll my eyes if I even read it... I go straight to the first bullet of most recent job.

[pastel aspen]

Thanks, good to know.
Luckily my job bullet points are all crazy, so I would probably survive that.

Thanks for the feedback folks.

[craggy fog]

ok

[noble rose]

gem advice

[pastel aspen]

(I've now rewritten the whole thing from one section to two, and it's way better and more practical etc, thanks again)

[noble rose]

send if u want to I've got time, God is good

[pastel aspen]

Cheers, thanks. At the moment I am keeping the last sentence about my current project because I don’t have a “projects” section on the CV for length reasons.

[noble rose]

try to TLDR that second one, i like that first one

here is mine: all four sections are needed for a Direcector, anything major I'd add in the highlist section of each of my role or really summazie it in my summary like freelance designer (personal website) and then add components in skills section

[pastel aspen]

What is tldr about the second one specifically?

[noble rose]

i say tldr beacuse idk what tynged is off the first 3 seconds and ive got 100 more resumes to read, add it in and make it simple yet highlighting something truly remarkable of an invention you've created. easier said than done but its gotta be done. just a scenario to help out if u will

[pastel aspen]

Well, the sentence that mentions it explains what it is.

[noble rose]

ok then omit the my approach and add that last sentece to the paragraph and make sure it all flows

short simple and highlighting ur talents

[strong fox]

Hello friends! Would really appreciate any feedback yall can give for my resume (be as honest as possible). Things to keep in mind:

1. I am new to the job market.
2. I am looking primarily for backend software development jobs (Python), though internal and/or public Python library development would be a plus.
3. Targeting internship/entry-level. Although I probably have enough programming experience for a junior-ish role (~4000hrs with Python alone), I am mainly missing work experience. At this point, I am pretty much open to anything that I could put on my resume under work experience.
4. I do not have a BS degree (so strong projects are a must - not sure if the two I have here really qualify; I have spent most of my time developing libraries, which aren't very flashy).
5. I am trying to keep it to one page, since it needs to be a quick read (internship/entry-level positions are being flooded with resumes right now, so it can't be anything too long).
6. Everything format-related can be changed if needed.
   -# PS: Thanks again to Defiler for rewording my work experience entry ❤️

[pastel aspen]

This typeface is actually kinda punchy, I like it at first glance.

[strong fox]

I use it for most things - Quicksand

[fringe sphinx]

I don't have time for a full review.. but - too much space tied up in skills. Skills are the one section I never read.

I do like the first bullet of your most recent experience. It tells me a lot about you (hopefully)

[strong fox]

Yeah, I think I could probably eliminate soft skills, SDLC (Python), and Other tbh

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'd stick the cloud / ci / git / languages stuff.

Really, it should be your experience or projects where I see that anyway.

At least you don't list "Microsoft Excel" 🙂

[strong fox]

Yeah, I might be able to squeeze another project in as well

[fringe sphinx]

The project does seem a little exaggerated, for what it's worth

[strong fox]

which one

[fringe sphinx]

The experiene

experience.

Also, I'd personally rather see more about testing and ci and sdlc on the experience than fault tolerance/etc (which I discount given your level of experience/etc... perhaps unfairly)

[still condor]

very minor nitpick, but I don't think mypy goes into the testing category

[strong fox]

Probably gonna nuke that entire bullet point anyway lol

[fringe sphinx]

Could tighten the language a bit too. 'A program written in Python that can simulate...' => 'Python program that simulates'

Or 'an academic project completed.....'=> 'developed an xyz as part of a group project for abc course ' . Say the important part first

[strong fox]

Good idea

[wraith harbor]

I would put skills below projects. If someone spends 30 seconds scanning your Resume, you would rather they know about your experience. It kind of gives a weak first impression

[strong fox]

ooo ye

Should education go below work experience?

(Especially since I don't have a BS)

[fringe sphinx]

At your level, education first. After a few years of work experience, then education last

[wraith harbor]

Also one small thing, you have Client-Side Web Dev twice in your education section @strong fox

[strong fox]

Those are technically two different classes (one using JS, one using JS frameworks)

[wraith harbor]

Oh I see I thought those were all commas. Didn't zoom in on my phone

[strong fox]

Yeah I tried to shorten some of the words (development and introduction) to save on space - will expand them again if I have enough room

[strong fox]

I added this bullet to discuss the testing aspect:
The entire service is unit tested and integration tested (mocked API) with over 95% code coverage.

Really the only CI-related thing (that I can think of) would be the self-hosted docker registry, and I added that as well.

Regarding the fault-tolorance and such, it does actually handle those situations. Though I removed state management as I don't actually handle the state directly, I retrieve the required information from the API on startup.

[wraith harbor]

Yeah I was just misreading the zoomed out text on my phone

[strong fox]

ahh

[fringe sphinx]

Don't write bullets like paragraphs or sentences. Don't need the 'this entire service is'. Just: achieved 95% test coverage with xyz or something like that

[strong fox]

Gotcha

[fringe sphinx]

Just a tech writing thing: write it however you want, then remove words without losing meaning

[strong fox]

Like from
Implemented a trading algorithm to execute orders with percentage-based ...
to Executes orders with percentage-based ...?

[fringe sphinx]

No, that was fine,

It's stuff like 'the entire service' that's fluff

[strong fox]

ahhh

[fringe sphinx]

The implemented one follows a normal convention for resume bullets

Verbed a thing that did stuff ... impact

[strong fox]

I see. Like this is what I did vs this is what it does

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that too. I don't care about the project, I just care about what you did

Heck, I don't even care if the project was a failure

[strong fox]

Makes sense

On more mature resumes (i.e. people who have a lot of work experience), is the projects section just completely omitted?

[pastel aspen]

Curious to hear answers to this; on mine it currently omitted.

[noble rose]

I omitted mine, but on LinkedIn and any media my site is the first thing that shows

[dim juniper]

That’s not quite it

[fleet reef]

There’s not really a sysadmin or scripting one on that site
I don’t see Windows Server standalone either
You’re gonna have to combine the DevOps and data engineering ones for the Ansible and databases, respectively
But not sure about the sysadmin parts

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I wouldn't expect projects on senior resumes unless it's some OSS or volunteer work or something like that

[smoky quest]

I would dissent here.
While projects are never expected, they can help demonstrate:

• 👏 skills 👏
• your nerd street creds
• In cases where your job experience is not enough (ex: you did nothing of interest, which is a problem on its own), it can help assuaging some concerns

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> ads

[white relic]

@royal steeple This isn't the place for that.

[rare nebula]

can some of you freelancers tell me the story of how you got your first clients?

[pastel aspen]

At the risk of telling stories too often, sure.
In 2005 I switched from being a contract SWE for DeLoitte/Unisys/etc on a long project for the State of Florida.
I started going to Ruby conferences, because I had been successfully using Ruby to build ETL and webapp stuff for Florida, and it seemed cool. I bought a book in Japanese that had an annotated walkthrough of the Ruby 1.6 codebase, and started struggling through it.

Ruby conferences at least always had a board to write "looking for engineer who can do XYZ" and "I'm someone who can do ABC" on it, pin your business card or write in dry-erase on paper, etc.

I put my name up at one of those and got a gig to do a pretty simple web app, this was before Rails was announced.

When Rails came out I went into it pretty hard, and I have some rails-core patches in the Arctic Vault etc etc.

After that I wrote what are basically little "Wilson says:" text boxes in the book "The Rails Way".

Early on I met up with some people at an NYC consultancy called Eastmedia, and that was gold; they knew how to find hard awesome failing projects from rich companies, and we would just come in and save the day.

We did the New York Jets site, and their consultancy sent us 300 pages of Photoshop comps, and we had 6 weeks, and we did it haha

On that site you can pre-schedule a custom-designed ad or poll "Widget" into a modular slot on any page of the site from the admin interface, and it goes live at the right time etc. Crazy crazy feature set they wanted. The entire site is all first-class ActiveRecord models etc for each page component, it's bonkers.

We also built https://www.mobilecommons.com/, a short-code SMS routing platform, that was fun.

4 person team; product manager, two devs, designer/css-ninja

IMO that's still the best 'build'.

If you can't do it with two engineers that work hard, you kinda don't want it as a contract job.

[rare nebula]

wow thats a story

[rare nebula]

sorry for making u write a paragraph

[pastel aspen]

tl;dr, go to conferences

No worries, it was fun to remember Eastmedia, I should message Matt and Josh etc.

Matt quit the scene to travel the world with his girlfriend and I think that's still happening.

[rare nebula]

hope shes a keeper lol

[pastel aspen]

One of our clients gave me his Kenzo leather jacket after our celebratory post-launch lunch haha
I had no idea what Kenzo was at the time (or I wouldn't have accepted it)

(They are like the one Japanese fashion brand hardcore enough to be acceptable in snooty European circles)

[rare nebula]

nice

i am new and tryna find a niche which i wont struggle too much with

your story was pretty fun to read through

[pastel aspen]

As they are currently saying on Twitter/X, "You can just do things."

[rare nebula]

still calling it twitter like me huh?

i wont ever call it x
way too much muscle memory

[pastel aspen]

If you want a totally insane book list I gave to my teammates 10 years ago, here is one. What I would do today is delete the Graphics Black Book part because while awesome, it's not crucial anymore.. and I would replace it with a book about Data-Oriented Design: #ot1-perplexing-regexing message

Order is load-bearing, more or less.
Most of it is "evergreen", and I stand by it etc.
Probably better Virtual Machines and Game Engine books now, but those aren't that important, near the bottom, etc.
So I would say in any case other than a "unique" book, feel free to replace it with some updated thing on the same topic.

[rare nebula]

i am noting all of the names rn
gimme a sec

[pastel aspen]

No worries, that's a dense payload.

[rare nebula]

yo u got any recoms?
i really wanna get into ai ml but its way too big

[pastel aspen]

Sadly I'm not yet the guy to ask, but for me I would try to find some way into https://www.periodic.com/, this is going to be a rocketship IMO. Same with https://nscale.com/.
Whoever is leading the product manager team at Nscale is like, the best that's ever been, some kind of Alexander the Great but for PM.

[rare nebula]

thnx
but doesnt this stuff comes after i learn everything about AI/ML?

[pastel aspen]

IMO no, I always try to just jump right to the end and learn from whoever is the best at it.
Sometimes you can't, but I always start there.

[rare nebula]

hmm
damn u are pretty talented learner then
i aspire to be someone like u
but i got no contacts and i dont know how to get in

[pastel aspen]

Do not rely on following the degree of understanding that you have discovered, but simply think, "This is not enough."
...is from one of the books high on that list.

[rare nebula]

i see

[rare nebula]

well its midnight for me now i doubt any bookstore is open rn

[pastel aspen]

A lot of that has ebook versions, including the essential The Unfettered Mind.

[rare nebula]

lemme check?

[noble rose]

eyy nice , mine is webinars or network just like here

gotta be info i care for and decent amount of traffic in event as well

[pastel aspen]

IMO I don’t even care about that anymore, just the kind of people who will be there. I would go to a language conference for something I never plan to use, etc.

[pastel aspen]

Straight up what is this trying to say that they do?

[lapis wind]

What an absolute word soup

[fringe sphinx]

Wow. That's, just wow

[lapis wind]

I can't quite tell if that has been chatgpt'd or not, because tbh I don't think chatgpt would write that so badly

[still condor]

Sounds like they're consulting businesses to help them move to a subscription model?

[fringe sphinx]

Nah, that's just corporate speak gone bad

It just doesn't answer the prompt

[lapis wind]

They've been huffing too much of their own cool aid

[fringe sphinx]

Ah, they do billingsystems

[pastel aspen]

[lyric fjord]

Do you think it’s possible to get an AI/ML job in the US without any formal education..no high school or college...just bootcamps and online certificates?

[pastel aspen]

I’ll let you know I guess because I am literally attempting that this week haha

No high school not, I do have that, but otherwise

[lyric fjord]

I'm planning to move to the US this year.. I do have the green card. I'm a drop out from university. I also lost my high school transcript that's 3.8 GPA..i don't think it even works in the US. but I got some online certificates from Udacity and University of Maryland.

[lyric fjord]

Sure, I'll be waiting. tag me anytime.

[pastel aspen]

You can get a “GED” here by passing some tests and then be able to say you have the high school thing checked off.

[near ocean]

Any related experience?

[lyric fjord]

That's a good thing. I'll check out.

[lyric fjord]

I'm working at a startup called SelamGPT..kind of like an OpenAI style platform, but multilingual (we use Google & Microsoft Translate as middlemen). It’s mostly free and offers the same kind of services as G4F, but mine includes the frontend. so you get a playground, API access and a chat space. You can think of it as an AI wrapper.

Also some other side projects. a neural network trading models with ml, kinda predicting the market ( replacing the old Genetic algo method) seems impossible lol. also notion wrapper but completely powered by AI (adding tasks, journal, schedule and stuffs with just prompt.

[pastel aspen]

This is super cool IMO and might help someone: https://autismworks.online

[glad mortar]

can u make bot using python on ios?

[worldly shale]

What are some fun and easy projects to make with python / pycharm

[polar raptor]

Hiii....

Anyone here...

[pastel aspen]

Short answer basically no. The iOS App Store policies make this not really the right way IMO.

[polar raptor]

I am a new guy I wana write a book on python if anyone experienced on could help I would b really thank flull

I am a guy of 13

@polar raptor = send request anytime 🙂‍↕️

[wind topaz]

question, is AI coding really that orrible? I feel like there is a lot of hate for it?

[pastel aspen]

It's nuanced; most people are getting awful code out of them and thinking it amazing, but some senior folks are using it to produce good code very quickly
So it's "possible but hard" right now IMO

[vast shoal]

It's both overhyped and underestimated, by different people. So people often criticize people who get swept up by the hype and develop unrealistic expectations, but then at the same time a lot of people overgeneralize and prematurely draw the conclusion that it's not useful at all, which is not the case.

[vapid jay]

is writing your hobby?

[urban vapor]

Hello, I want to join a team. Who can accept me into the team? Write me a PM. I can write bots, make games, and script.

[versed shore]

hi guys im taking Information technology in college, and can someone pls give me some advice

[vapid jay]

how do you get a job just tell me something like that is guaranteed and would work for sure

[near ocean]

There are no guarantees

[vapid jay]

is there any like any path or way that might get it done

[near ocean]

Degree + internships + projects + ability to solve leetcode of any difficulty + some luck cause even with all that there is still no guarantee

[vapid jay]

got no degree would get in a year got some interships made some projects can solve leetcode but not the extreme hard ones and i think my luck doesnt exist and just had a question do i need to be like active on linkedin

[cloud bear]

what is a tool that you need but nobody code for you

[solid parcel]

Definitely don't need to be, but having a profile set up helps even if you're not updating it regularly. I've had a lot of opportunities come my way via LinkedIn, including from orgs like AWS.

[regal axle]

Get a degree. Do projects. Be involved with others; be it internships or communities. Or both.
LinkedIn is needed but you don’t need anything besides a profile with your info. I’ve never posted anything on mine.
You don’t need to do extreme hard leetcode. And depending on the position you might not even have to do medium level. Also LC is falling out of fashion for interviews. But not quite there yet.

[vapid jay]

thanks for the advice @solid parcel @regal axle and i have one more question too like do i need to apply for jobs post like in bulk i was just reading some news where someone applied for like for 1000s of job but hardly got response from 50

[solid parcel]

Market is rough at the moment, particularly for juniors. Yes, you may well have to apply to a lot of jobs before you land one. It's partially just a numbers game. I'd recommend posting your CV for feedback, as a lot of engineers have some truly awful ones and don't realise it. Landing an interview at all is often the hardest part.

[regal axle]

It’s a strategy to mass apply. If you do this, your application won’t be strong and you will have a low response rate.
Another strategy is to spend time on each application; making sure the role makes sense for you and that your resume matches (make changes for the application if needed). This has a higher response rate . And the route I go.

I can’t tell you what option is better though. Regardless, expect it to take time and require a decent amount of effort.

[vapid jay]

actually i just started making my cv its hardly even half page and its empty right now but sure i will send you my cv when its done

[vapid jay]

i would try the 2 one which you said its sounds better and i would know what i am doing in that

[solid parcel]

One nice compromise is having a key accomplishments section toward the top of your CV, where you can highlight the things you've done that are most relevant to a given role. It's a quick way to tailor your CV. Nice balance between sending out generic applications and making time consuming modifications.

[solid parcel]

Where possible, focus on outcomes rather than just listing tools you've used. Demonstrate impact. Albeit that's more challenging when you're starting out, due to a lack of examples to pull from.

[regal axle]

Eh. I don’t care for a top paragraph. I’ve never read one that has “hit my desk”. But others disagree with me. So whatever.

[solid parcel]

I'm taking about 3 or so impact focused bulletpoints rather than a paragraph.

[vapid jay]

off the topic but got any suggestions for any good movies something like sci-fi or releated to computer something thriller i am just bored

[regal axle]

Maybe. I would have to see an example. I can’t fully visualize what you are saying. At least not in a format that looks good.

[fast fossil]

luckily, all you might need is luck, unluckily, people are not typically lucky enough for that alone to work

[near ocean]

Sad and true

[full haven]

Hey everyone!
I hope this is okay to share here, I’m doing a small research project on the pain points in tech recruiting, from both the applicant and recruiter perspectives.

The goal is to understand why so many people on both sides find tech hiring so frustrating, and how it could be improved (especially for developers).

I’ve made two short, anonymous surveys (about 3 minutes each), one for applicants and one for recruiters.
Would it be alright if I share the applicant one here?

[solid parcel]

Don't have time for a survey right now, but here are some quick notes:

Candidates using AI to write plausible sounding but entirely BS CVs, uninformed recruiters doing nothing more than keyword matching, candidates automating applications (leading to much more noise to cut through as an applicant, and to sift through as a recruiter), interview processes that often don't reflect the job, candidates leaning on AI tooling to cheat their way through the interview process, applications that require both submitting a CV and regurgitating the same info into a form.

[full haven]

Thanks !

[fringe sphinx]

'Recruiter' might not be the term you're looking for

[full haven]

why?

[fringe sphinx]

Recruiters are often disconnected from the hiring decision: the hiring manager is the decision maker

[full haven]

but the process isn't also done the recruiter way

[fringe sphinx]

?

[full haven]

the recruiting process

[fringe sphinx]

The recruiter often just gets a pile of resumes that match whatever filters and hands them to the hiring manager.

[full haven]

okay thanks for the differentiation

[fringe sphinx]

And, you're unlikely to find recruiters here (or in most circles), but you're more likely to find hiring managers

[full haven]

I see your point, but we are also interested in the process from the pov of recruiters, the ones doing the search and headhunt for candidates, for instance many responses we received were about the difficulty in reaching senior positions, and make them intersted in an offer

[cosmic mica]

hey all, first message here, sorry if i'm trampling all over the convo here.

Third round interview coming up, and it'll be my first paired programming session. Not sure what to expect- but just learned that it'll be with their lead backend engineer, and an employee of the company said their backend was entirely Python.

Feeling a bit nervous/anxious; got through first technical fine; lead said he has no idea what problem he'll give me, but we'll just work on something for an hour. 😅

Got hit by federal layoffs earlier this year and nearly gave up on SWE in favor of making use of my networking certs. This offer came out of nowhere, so it feels like a sprint to refamiliarize myself lol

[fringe sphinx]

That's exciting, good for you!

[full haven]

Good luck

[cosmic mica]

Thanks!
Scrambling around my notes, remaking old projects of mine, wish I had a bit more insight for focused study given how sudden this was!

[fringe sphinx]

Don't worry about knowing everything, nobody does. Be honest, communicate, if you're nervous it's ok to say so

[vast shoal]

As far as I'm aware, we don't usually permit surveys.

[full haven]

Totally fair ! if someone is interested in participating, or even in receiving the final results, DM me

[open ivy]

The people with great job-hunting skills are in a league of their own. I know someone paid to watch TV sports games that he loves to watch.

IF you have these skills you can find jobs that are well compensated, in your field of interests, and offer many other perks. Most other people struggle with non-ideal working environments, assuming they even can get a job in the first place.

It's easy to underestimate your own strengths as per imposter syndrome. If so I forgive you for being naive and thinking that people on welfare are lazy. As long as you take the time to understand that they don't have your hunting skills and most would love a good job! But all they can find are jobs that would burnout you quickly. Be proud of your hunting skill! It's fine to take pride in what you are genuinely good at.

And feel free to give us some tips and tricks, the rest of us could use your help...

[glad mortar]

Guys who make discord bot using python using replit app ??

[pastel aspen]

I totally agree with this; the kind of company you actually want to work for, will know "passion" for the task when they see it.
If you're seriously into a field, just volunteer to work on it. 8 weeks after attempting to write my first compiler ever, I was getting paid to work on Rubinius with the official job title "Compiler Admiral".

Just "do the thing" and assume there will be a net to catch you, it's often the case.
If not you still learned something that can probably go on your C.V.

[open ivy]

I was thinking of volenteering for UC berkeley research, given that the campus is very nice and a simple BART ride from my home.

So far it seems to be projects like "water plants for the botanical garden" etc, so getting a tech-oriented one is hard however.

[pastel aspen]

If anyone is familiar with the board game “Go”, I see it that way. Be like fire. Never stop trying to advance and take more territory.

[smoky quest]

There is no magic nor secret.
Align your education,experience and skills/projects. And get your resume reviewed by people in the field

[pastel aspen]

What kind of research would you be most passionate about?

[open ivy]

I had a friend review it recently and it is OK. I will try out RSS feeds for outreach.

[smoky quest]

are they actually hiring people themselves?

[open ivy]

I am not sure hyper-competitive is the best way to think of it? Because hyper-competitive environments tend to extreme tunnel vision. For example, getting into medical school is largely about how much one can memorize. Which does not make so much sense in a world with AI and computers.

Collaboration and being helpful is more useful.

[open ivy]

Yes, lots of people who read RSS feeds have jobs and (networking) sometimes they have an opening.

[pastel aspen]

I guess to be clear, I'm not talking about competing with other humans, but with the part of you that wants to take it easy and stop growing.

[smoky quest]

no, I meant your friend who reviewed it. Do they have hiring responsibilities?

[open ivy]

I see. I also think collaboreativly with myself. Like competition and coaching combined? I guess that is what you are saying as well.

[open ivy]

No, they sent it out to a friend.

[smoky quest]

I would still recommend to post it here or talk to that friend of a friend directly
that's how you become goated for finding jobs

[pastel aspen]

At the risk of saying this too often;

Do not rely on following the degree of understanding that you have discovered, but simply think, "This is not enough." (Hagakure)

To me this is almost the only necessary axiom.

[smoky quest]

you must get direct feedback on your resume and hear the perspective of someone who receives thousands of applications and has to make decisions.
So that means no indirect friends, no professional resume reviewer. It should be a recruiter or hiring manager

[open ivy]

I thought professional resume reviweres were generally recruiters?

One would think that "looking at thousands of applications" makes good credentials.

[smoky quest]

Anyone can offer to review your resume. It doesn't mean they have any experience in it

[smoky quest]

Looking at thousands of application when reviewing a resume without hiring anyone could imply you are giving thousands of terrible advice not grounded in reality

And I am going to say the following with the most caring intentions, but given your history of messages, you do need to get grounded by someone who has real hiring and industry experience

[open ivy]

I would say there are only two things I am sure about for getting a job:

1. Portfolio projects.
2. Human interaction (networking).

But everything else I am in the dark about. In particular who and how to reach out to people I am not sure. How to advertise my portfolio I am not sure (social media seems bad, but there are many many other options). So you are right that I don't really know what is going on.

Once my website is up should I hand out business cards for people I meet?

I will send an anon resume later today, now that my friend had a look at it it broke my writers block.
Is a good resume review an unbuyable product? Because almost no one offering it actually has the correct experience that you have. I don't understand business well enough to know why it would be unbuyable, which also shows how in the dark I am about all of this.

[smoky quest]

You are describing very well the benefits of a professional/social network or nepotism. They do give you access to the right people to give you the right advice and boost

[open ivy]

If you are better than 95% of resume "professional services", because you made tons of hiring decisions and they didn't, then that is a very, very, valuable skill! Like you see all these fake coaches pretending to know how to surf but you are the only one who actually rode any waves.

Networking is a bit more the nepotism. Most people in tech I don't vibe with (they go quiet and don't want to talk to me). Not the best cowoeker. But when I do vibe with someone in tech it can be very fun. And there aren't really any tools to see how much you vibe with others (besides general interests like "chess" etc) without actually having a back-and-forth convo with them.

[tacit venture]

Debugging makes me sad

[fickle cedar]

Socializing is really hard. I'm really tired of this world.

[smoky quest]

socializing is fun when you stop caring about what people think about you and go in without any expectations

[peak halo]

Are you okay?

[fickle cedar]

No way, I live in Asia, this is normal , I don't know how to describe this culture. Suppressing our own individuality is something we are born into.

[smoky quest]

That didn't seem to be a problem at the Asian conferences

[fickle cedar]

Of course, there are many excellent engineers and elites in our country, but most people are struggling in life.I don't think there is anything wrong with this, but sometimes you feel that this society lacks attention to people.

[smoky quest]

Maybe. But that seems getting quite far from #career-advice ?

[compact edge]

https://leetcode.com/problem-list/vvzi8c2s/

I made a public leetcode problem list based on this plus ten high frequency recent google questions

it's 25 problems. in case anyone is looking for a way to filter down and focus from the 500+ problems marked as asked in the last 3 months on leetcode for google

[open ivy]

When networking, often people will enter a persistent rigid no-talk mode. Usually it happens 5-10 minutes into the conversation and over a wide range of topics. Where nothing I say makes them want to talk. Sure, we all have quiet moments. But this is a powerful and dramatic effect not a brief pause, and it really shuts things down.

This is very strange, since I rarely if ever enter such a mode. And that makes sense i am human "absolute rules" are a Thing in math and physics not the messy world of sociology. Why are humans behaving like automatons with exacting rules? They are not autistic or anything like that.

If this problem happens to you a lot, you are not alone or imagining things! Have you ever "broken through" this barrier? I would like to know how to improve networking skills. Because "bricking a human bieng" is not a good thing.

[solid parcel]

If this is something you're regularly encountering, honestly it sounds like you may be the common denominator in these interactions. If you're consistently finding people unwilling to continue engaging, that may reflect something about how you're coming across to them.

It's also worth bearing in mind that if you're networking with other techies, a disproportionate number of them will be some flavour of neurodiverse. Tech is like catnip for a significant number of people with ADHD, autism etc.

[open ivy]

I dont avoid autistic people, but I am limited in my capability to deal with other people's sensory difficulties and meltdowns. Keeping in mind that non-autistic people also can have sensory issues that can be annoying to deal with.

[pine sleet]

its a hint that they dont want to talk and you should leave them alone

[open ivy]

How often does this happen to you?

[pine sleet]

rarely. id like to think im fairly good at reading social clues and gauging how interested the other person is in the conversation

its better to figure this out and disengage before you force the other person to start giving one word answers

[open ivy]

Yes there are clues. If I sense people losing interest I try letting them talk about their topics instead. Since it's only fair that they get their fair share. But they often don't want to talk about themselves either.

[pine sleet]

nothing you can do about that. if someone doesnt want to talk they dont want to talk

[open ivy]

Surprising how common that is given how lonely so many people are.

I am not super talkative, but after a few days of no interactions outside of family yes I will want to talk.

[pine sleet]

you could try to figure out if the same person shows more interest to someone else for longer to see if it's a you issue or them issue but i don't think it's that serious

[open ivy]

Sometimes yes sometimes no.

I am curious how you engage people in unusual ideas, stuff like social media Gini indexes or quantum shamism etc?

Don't we all have our weird and wonderful pet ideas we care about?

[pine sleet]

i dont know what those are but i can just talk to my classmates/clubmates/other peers about it

[open ivy]

It's hard. People keep telling me they get lost. Surely you have encountered a similar thing with your "out there" ideas as well?

[pine sleet]

yes, laugh it off move on

[open ivy]

I do that also, but it is a bandaid patch and can lead to bottling it up (although I am far from the worst in terms of suppressed emotions to be fair).

Like isn't it frustrating that you have some idea that only you understand, no one else does, and no one else can?

[pine sleet]

not really? by nature the more specific you get the less people will be in that circle who can keep up with you

its like those hyper specialized math research papers that are only ever read by like 20 people in the world

[open ivy]

Yes deep math papers are super hard to understand. Makes me wonder how they found their niche. Even getting one other person to understand my quantum information birth order effects hypothesis would be a big win. And esoteric pure math is even denser.

[pine sleet]

🤷‍♂️ with regard to careers specifically at least, the most you can do is try to phrase what you've done in terms of results and impact which is easier to understand for most people

[open ivy]

Yes I am taking more of a research approach. And I should also "publish" failures because it shows the effort and care, and lessons learned.

For other readers of this thread, there are also non-research approaches that focus less on tool development and more on tool use and business and markets they are more common but not universal. Use the approach that suits your interests.

[fiery plume]

bat in python :3333

[open ivy]

One social skills tidbit for networking: it's very rare that you need to ghost people even those you don't agree with or get along "well" with. After reaching out to hundreds of people, I only needed to ghost four and all of which were extreme situations.

There are so many other gentler ways to set boundaries and who knows a contact that you get along "poorly" with may be useful to keep in the rolodex just not as coworkers.

It's ridiculous how common ghosting is. Isnt it frustrating when multiple different people ghosted you but didn't give a reason. You are not a bad person because this happened! And it is often permanent, where even a month long delay won't undo it, even though people change.

Too many people using the nuclear option too much.

[near ocean]

Do you find many people ghosting you?

[modest kraken]

I just chameleon when I talk to ppl

[open ivy]

It's fairly common. And I think it happens to anyone who goes out into the world. It isn't really fair, life isn't fair, but at least knowing that you can feel better about it happening to you.

[smoky quest]

Is your anonymized resume ready to share?

[open ivy]

Will be soon I am busy with other tasks people asked me to do.

[smoky quest]

with the new week, new job posting will come out. Getting your resume prepped and ready for the new week should be pretty high on that list 😉

[open ivy]

My strengths are algorithm design and tool development with an emphasis on exploratory research.

I will need a week or two anyway to get my GitHub and Website up to par, to make my laser-targeted applications count more, so there isn't a real rush atm.

Let me just change the format so it does not complain.

No pdf allowed?

Once again thanks for your help.

[smoky quest]

did you obtain the phd?

[open ivy]

Yes all degrees completed.

[smoky quest]

congrats! What's BME?

[open ivy]

Biomedical engineering yes I agree to spell it out.

[smoky quest]

Thanks!
Kinda having dinner now, so I might give a full review later tonight or tomorrow. But thanks for sharing!

[open ivy]

No rush, websites are hard work and at least it's fun work.

[empty quartz]

Guys I need some 30 year old men to fill out a survey for uni does anyone know anyone who could do it😭 😭 😭

[crisp stream]

We don't allow surveys

[empty quartz]

Okayyy🫡

[balmy mural]

I already don't feel like I have enough hours in a day to do the things I want to do. If I don't get along well with someone, I'm not going to keep spending my time on people I don't enjoy talking to. There are a lot of other people in my life who I'd much rather spend that time interacting with

[versed walrus]

Hi every one I am new in python let me introduce my self I am B_boy masterd in css,and I know some about Js basics also but I want a strong Hand in python

So please make me friend and Help me I am also studying Python form YouTube and practice my self also

[vivid solstice]

Hi I am 13 can I code

[vapid jay]

Yes sure if know coding

[vivid solstice]

can anyone give python book pdf download

[vast shoal]

Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online: https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc
If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-osiE80TeTskrapNbzXhwoFUiLCjGgY7
I also recommend Harvard’s free online course, CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python: https://pll.harvard.edu/course/cs50s-introduction-programming-python
This is an alternative online course with lots of integrated practice problems you can do directly in the browser: https://programming-25.mooc.fi/

[versed walrus]

I have a question that I have downloaded Python,Shoul I download modules also

Give sugestion

[vast shoal]

This is the career discussion channel, if you have general Python questions, please ask in #python-discussion

[versed walrus]

Ok

[wild grail]

Hey guys can someone help me wih python internships. I've been trying so hard

[peak halo]

what country are you in, and are you a university student?

[wild grail]

India , I recently graduated

@peak halo there?

[peak halo]

is it normal to try to get an internship after graduating? in north america and europe, you only do internships while you're a student. not after.

[near ocean]

How would you like this channel to help you?

[wild grail]

Well , I wasn't much aware about internships not did my college helped me . I did a couple of projects . I'm searching for junior roles too

[wild grail]

I'm looking for people who can genuinely guide. I'm feeling burn out by self studying .

[near ocean]

Guide you how? Do you have a cv? Are you failing technical interviews?

[wild grail]

I do have a cv . Been applying for remote roles. All job descriptions are like expecting either from end to end development / 4-6, 7, years experinece

How can I improve myself for a complete python dev role?

[near ocean]

Everyone wants a remote position, they would be the most competitive
What about local jobs?

[wild grail]

Local jobs yeah , been trying for that too..but job descriptions are too much . Python,sql, flask, django , sql alchemy, ci/cd ....etc everything included.

I built a resume parser api using Python ,flask, regex, did ci/cd kinda used flake8, black ,render tho .... I don't have experience with django not a problem I can learn . But still

Also used basic nlp

Couldn't run big models for perfect accuracy cuz no resource.

[timid osprey]

any advice for a junior in high school who wants to become a software engineer

[peak halo]

do well in school (especially math) and go to college/uni for CS

[timid osprey]

do you think i can get intership in college freshman specially community college

currently im studying python and data structure

[peak halo]

internships usually go to students at 4yr universities and not to the freshman.

[timid osprey]

yeah im saying a freshman in college

ohh yah i see what you mean

[peak halo]

I know. most internships go to sophomores and juniors at a 4yr university.

[timid osprey]

what would you say is the best path, to go to 4 years uni right off high school or do community for 2 years then transfer and apply for internships

[solid parcel]

I'm curious, why do you think maths is important for SWEs? The vast majority of engineering work isn't mathematically intensive- I'm wondering if your perspective there is perhaps representative of your specialism rather than the field as a whole?

[peak halo]

I'm saying it's important for getting into a CS degree program, because CS is a branch of theoretical math, and the admissions officer at my university told me point blank "the main thing I look at are math grades"

[solid parcel]

Gotcha, thanks for the context 🙂

[regal axle]

That is up to personal situation. Sticking to a single school all the way through is easier and gives you more time to make deeper connections with people. But community into 4 year is much cheaper and economically sound. So if money is an issue, do the thing that doesn't sack you with tons of debt. If money is not an issue, go for the 4 year uni and focus on joining clubs or labs and doing things with people.

[timid osprey]

yeah my big reason is to save money, but i just kept wondering if it's really a good path for me to do CC then 4 year uni, like am i gonna miss a lot by not going full 4 year uni? it's just something holding me back from deciding

[fringe sphinx]

People take many paths. A lot of people bomb out, change majors, etc during their freshman year.

Only 60% of US college students graduate in 4 years. It goes up if you measure it in 6 year increments.

So, my advice is - worry about your success... not about missing out.

[wild grail]

Guys , could someone experienced advice on what to focus on In Python

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion is the channel you want

[timid osprey]

alr ty

[wild grail]

Oh thanks @fringe sphinx

[noble rose]

For me it was all about a better deal. Though scholarships, i had to be realistic on who would be paying my loans. I chose CC, got full ride, got 60 credits, then even more doors opened for me for 4 year. Just like billy said you have your own pathway. If i had followed others id be drowning in loans

There are transfer scholarships and financial aid grants from fafsa as well

[timid osprey]

did you do CC path way?

[noble rose]

Yes.

[timid osprey]

ohh alr ill explore more to it then

[noble rose]

Dual enrollment should be ur best friend. Collect those college credits. APs are nice but dont feel straighter to the goal

[timid osprey]

is there any prerequsites u recommend me to check or focus on when im in high shool

[timid osprey]

thing is im not able to do those because of family responsbilities i wanna take as much ap as i can and as many dual as i can but i have to watch my siblings and all i wont have much time to study

[noble rose]

Dual enrollment. Still explore and learn too but dual enrollment for college credits. First two years of any major is general education

My APs were nice for rigor but long term i failed to get 4s and 5s for college credits

[solid parcel]

I'm a massive fan of apprenticeships as a pathway, albeit they're less common.

[noble rose]

Internship is nice but in hs may be too early unless its employment or something stronger lkke apprenticeship

[timid osprey]

what's that

[fringe sphinx]

The other option too is summer courses. You can knock out a college level course in 7 weeks. Most Uni's have 2 summer sessions.

[timid osprey]

i only got one ap class lol

[fringe sphinx]

Both my kids knocked out calc 1 and 2 over the Junior summers, because they didn't want to take it senior year.

[timid osprey]

can i do them online?

[noble rose]

I took 7 or 9 in total but long term didnt play as much wspecially woth credits for college.

[fringe sphinx]

For our local state uni, yes.

Even better than AP, since it's 7 weeks and no AP test.

[timid osprey]

id love to knock out some college classes honestly ill see what i can do with my counselor

[fringe sphinx]

(altho 7 weeks is fast... you need to be prepared and study hard)

[noble rose]

2 birds one stone

[timid osprey]

im assuming i need to sign up early on right?

[fringe sphinx]

For what?

[noble rose]

Pay attention to fall semster deadlines to the cc yeah

[timid osprey]

for dual or the one you told me about knocking out some college classes

[fringe sphinx]

For summer courses, just check the Uni's schedule.

For dual, that'll depend on your school.

[timid osprey]

even as a junior hs ?

[fringe sphinx]

For AP, that's just a school thing

[timid osprey]

wait i can just go to the uni and ask to take those classes?

[fringe sphinx]

BUT, there's plenty of non-academic things you can do. Start programming, for instance.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah... for my kids, they had to get a guidance counselor at their HS to sign a form, but that's it.

[timid osprey]

oh i already have ive learned python basics and now im starting to study data structure and algorithm

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, hang out in #python-discussion and participate, and you'll learn a lot.

[noble rose]

I did dual in junior and bunch of aps in junior and senior. Ur mind can adapt to it. Dont give in.

[fringe sphinx]

but duals depend on the HS offering them, afaik. Not all schools do.

[timid osprey]

mine does i was just not sure to take it bc transportation is on me and my parents are too busy

[true harness]

same with aps

[timid osprey]

mine offer both

[noble rose]

Or ibs. Bottom line is Sage u have dual enrollment card to play. Take full adv and good luck

[noble rose]

Ur passion is about ofc the traditional route and creative route. Thorougly explore break down and study to meet and exceed expectations

I go out in my career field and witness a project. Easily i break it down identifying all that is wrong and how it can not only be improved but exceeded and how to add your signature to it as well.

Good luck n God bless

[pastel aspen]

I THINK this is career advice, apologies if you find this off-topic.
...but always check in on your old open source / work colleagues that you thought had good taste, after you part ways.

Not necessarily right away, but don't forget them. You never know who they will turn out to be.
My buddy turns out now to be Technical Director at Sequoia Capital, and another is PhD | Formal Verification | Neuro-Symbolic AI, others Executive Director of the Identity Defined Security Alliance, Aerospace Engineer at NASA, etc.
Even if you never "use" that, it's probably at least a really cool conversation when you catch up.

[solid parcel]

That's quite a black book to have on hand 😁

[pastel aspen]

I left out the crazier 10 that people wouldn't believe

These are just the guys I didn't think were going anywhere career-wise haha

[solid parcel]

Given the calibre of the ones you have shared, I did get the impression there would be a fair few other impressive engineers alongside them, haha.

[pastel aspen]

Unlocked this achievement yesterday, I really admire Oxide a lot!

So yeah, stay close to your open source friends, is the tl;dr.

But remember, never be intimidated by them either. You remember them from back when you both still sucked at this.

[open ivy]

Only 24 hours in a day yes definitely a limitation!

BUT social does not take excessive time for me even with my "only ghost under extreme conditions rule". There are clever ways to limit time and energy without making them feel ghosted. Also, I don't have that many people who are chomping at the bit to spend time with me. People are busy and addicted to social media and other electronic consumption.

Big timesavers for me:

1. Avoid doomscrolling. Of course, it's an addiction so it's like telling a smoker to quit, doing less of this has freed up time.
2. Don't drive. Bring magazines or computer on the bus/train. More wall-clock time but much less CPU-second time.
3. Look at idle moments where I am not being productive and also not relaxing, and choose one of these.
4. Strategize recreational time, i.e. for me this means what video games are best to spend downtime on to refresh myself, and to not use recreation as an escape but instead use it as enrichment, i.e. giving me experiences I cannot otherwise have.

These are much more effective timesavers than ghosting other people, which would at most save a few minutes a day. I don't actively reach out to people who I think we don't get along well, but I still generally RSVP to them if they reach out to me, and it takes minutes to do so.

[balmy mural]

I still don't feel like it's worth my time to talk to people I don't enjoy talking to. It's not about saving time. It's about not spending my time talking to someone I don't get along with. I'd rather waste my time doing something I enjoy. Every idle moment of my life doesn't have to be converted into something productive or relaxing.
I don't care if someone feels ghosted because of that. I don't have any obligation to interact with them in a way to not make them feel that way

[pastel aspen]

I don't see anything wrong with this take, as long as you're always also trying to be polite and empathetic as you tell them to go away etc.

[balmy mural]

Yea, I'm polite and cordial when interacting with people, but I'm also pretty blunt without being rude (most of the time. I'm more blunt with people I know well). I'm not going to beat around the bush

[dawn lagoon]

Good morning

[open ivy]

If I was too picky I would have like no one in my life. If they really don't get along with me they generally ghost me instead.

[dawn lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/distraction-damon-dominique-get-away-from-interruption-diversion-disturbance-gif-19065333

Anyways Doom Scrolling is basically useless you will be more distracted and making your attention span more shorter. Anyways Just delete anything TikTok Youtube and also Every social media app. Also have pokemon Go on your app because your walking or excercising while catching and battling pokemon.

[open ivy]

"I'd rather waste my time doing something I enjoy." doomscrolling somehow is addictive and unenjoyable.

[dawn lagoon]

Your right about that but also kids are becoming more addicted to doom scrolling tiktok and other social media apps and not even study parents should be buying kids phone

[open ivy]

I don't understand this, it seems to be more fun and addictive to play Minecraft because creating things is fun an I can't just build a two story house IRL in an hour.

Makes me wonder if @balmy mural is good at avoiding the DoomScroll, rumination, and other non-fun time wasters than most of us? A useful skillt to have.

Brown pasture syndrome

Sports bars talk about sports
Chess club plays chess
Kayaking club goes on kayak rides
BUT
A tech meetup happy hour I went to had amazingly little tech discussions. It is a brown pasture like going to a sports bar when their TV isn't working.

I think the people who have to constrain thier social interactions could sniff the desert from a mile away. They would see this meetup advert and know oh now that is not a place for tech, only go there if you want to avoid tech discussions. I just don't know how to read between the lines? Almost everything I try seems to be a brown pasture.

If I am it a place where tech discussions are "prohibitied" I cannot put my best foot forward and it makes networking far harder.

[pastel aspen]

There are lots of strange tech meetups out there, and you have to evaluate them carefully. I went to a super early pre-Rails Ruby meetup in SF and it turned into a libertarian/anarchist cocktail party.

Like, one of the guys had just had his book advocating anarchy published.

I'm probably on an FBI list now for having showed up to talk with Rubyists.

[open ivy]

Yes so true.

And what about all the people who have to be reserved socially because many people are trying to talk to them? how do they find tech discussions those seem rare, few and far between, to the point you can't be picky about people you don't get allong super well with when you finally find such a place.

But there are so many that if I could have telepathic skills I could find the 5% or so where talking about tech is actually part of the meetup.

[pastel aspen]

What I do now is find the group via open-source stuff, and only then figure out which meetups they go to.

[open ivy]

"Find the group via open source stuff" what does that mean?

[pastel aspen]

Find some project I like, start contributing to it, figure out who is cool, see where they do stuff, etc.

I've just started a private "Zulip" org for collecting "covert open source" people from all around and seeing what happens.

[open ivy]

This is a form of volunteer work, and it is unusually high skill compared to most volunteer work (such as watering plants for a field expirement in ecology etc).

Makes me wonder how you made yourself useful? Like it wasn't just a random "I think this makes it better" pull request you somehow got thier interest.

[balmy mural]

I scroll on the toilet and watch some YT videos while eating. That's it for social media stuff for me. I don't think I'm "good" at avoiding it, I just never started using any of the apps that have their algorithms fine tuned to keep you doomscrolling

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? A meetup isn't a conference. Nobody is presenting their work.

[balmy mural]

Most tech meetups I've been to, tech is the main thing discussed

[open ivy]

No, but what about personal projects for fun? Or ideas in tech? Not everything tech has to be from teh 9-5 grind.

[fringe sphinx]

Many of them will have a presentation at the beginning, and then
people socializing

[open ivy]

This one had no presentation.

[fringe sphinx]

Ask people what they do, etc.

[pastel aspen]

I've really never found it hard to find something fixable that needed fixing in a new-ish OSS project.

[balmy mural]

Lots of other stuff talked about, but tech was definetly a major discussion point at most I've been

[fringe sphinx]

For sure. Even just testing a new feature usually leads to 2-3 bugs and a security vulnerability

[pastel aspen]

Also I usually end up in their irc/chat/discord/etc helping other new users, and almost nobody does that.

[fringe sphinx]

(Speaking from recent experience)

[open ivy]

I did, but it did not fit the vibe. They occasionally mentioned their work. But no one seemed to express a passion for a work and/or personal projects, in terms of explaining challenges and oppurtunities and motivation. It was more about company names and job titles.

[fringe sphinx]

How do you express passion? I love my work, but I don't think that'd be obvious from a casual conversation

[pastel aspen]

You can usually just tell from peoples' tone of voice when you ask them to talk about what they like to do etc

[open ivy]

I can start describing my physics engine ideas, development, and why I am doing it.

[open ivy]

Yes. One person liked to talk about his travel to six continents.

[fringe sphinx]

I think you may have unrealistic expectations of how others should act, tbh. Especially of how techies... renowned for their introvertedness... would act at a meetup

[open ivy]

They were actually loud and talkative, at least about various social things, and it was a crowded space.

[pastel aspen]

I remember one guy in the Ruby open source community who was at all the key turning point events, etc.. and nobody would have ever accepted one of his pull requests, he wasn't really much of a coder... but he was badass at playing his guitar and was nice and diversely educated and fun to hang out with.
I'll bet if I look him up now he's CTO somewhere haha

lol haha he built Autodesk's PaaS when he was there

[open ivy]

So his role was less coder. Not sure if CTO make senses it seems that a more business focus (on the people not the silicon) would be better?

[pastel aspen]

Sure, but what I mean is, if in the meantime he's done the pushups to become a coder, he knows everybody he needs to etc.
...and looking at him on LinkedIn, I guess he did that.

That's cool, I should reach out.

Hahahaha

[open ivy]

So you are saying that his best foot forward is never going to be coding, but he got good enough at it? My best foot forward is the algorythim design itself and I wonder if my trajectory will be different, less buisness oriented?

Fun guy to be around.

[pastel aspen]

So, at the risk of telling too many stories, here is one. Feel free to believe me or not.

In 1983, the first Mac was announced. My father, at the time already with a Chemical Engineering degree, and just finishing his back-to-school Electrical Engineering degree, got the vision and wanted one right away.
He somehow learned that Steve Jobs was into the same obscure kind of BMW motorcycle that my father was, and so he wrote Steve an old-fashioned letter in the mail.
Steve called him on the phone, and they met in California where SJ bought the bike, which was on display in one of the 1 Infinite Loop campus lobbies for many years, not sure where it is now.

When they were talking, my father asked SJ for advice about what to do at school, and what to do with his skillset.
Steve instantly replied that he should stay in school and get an MBA. My father did that.

He went on to create the industry we now call Pollution Prevention, a profitable synthesis of engineering and business relationships.
Because we were poor and stupid, we sold that Mac eventually, but I had one and was using the Paint app before it was for sale.

At my father's funeral, the iron-hard veteran head of global safety for Dow Chemical wept like a child.

So yeah, you can just do things. I have a photo of me in diapers sitting on the motorcycle pretending to ride it.

I cried like a child when Steve died.

[open ivy]

Anecdotes show how networking will "click" and when it does "click" it can do so very well. I think my RSS feed idea will be similar. Most people will ignore it, or not know that RSS even is. But the few who do may well really like it, complete with a "take back the Algorithm" message.

Social is weird that way, and I am learning this slowly.

[pastel aspen]

I met a guy playing Helldivers 2 that is now a friend, and it turns out he's a hardcore Space Force vet etc, the internet is weird.

[open ivy]

This shows networking, done correctly, is a lower risk strategy than mass applying.

Mass applying is high risk because if it fails, it leaves behind bad mental health and nothing else. No connections. Almost no lessons learned. No technical or social skills built. Just screaming into the void. 100% loss in time investment.

But with networking all sorts of fun and interesting quirks like this happen even if the primary goal of getting a job doesn't immediately occur. As long as there is also a place to talk tech where I can put my best foot forward, listening to some obscure video game once in a while is not a bad thing!

[pastel aspen]

Based on what I have observed in my career, the people who look for things based on their passions, vs. seeking the most directly gainful career step, are the ones that all have unprecedented titles on LinkedIn, circa 2025. The latter group topped out around Senior/Staff/Lead Engineer, the others have their own successful startups or are like level 8-million at a place like Google etc.

Honestly most of the first group is just retired on a beach "doing investments"
I'm the slow one because I struggled with depression for decades.

I recently fired the personality construct that was running my meat avatar, and the new-hire is much better so far.

[open ivy]

Yes. Social interactions (which getting a job is given a human gives it to you at the end of the day) are extremly indirect. Mass-applying is kind of like asking random people "hey wanna be my friend" and is super unnatrual.

But boy social interactions are subtle, and those who are good are very good so it is not just random.

Greed seems to be the same way, where people who directly try to make money now are at a loss. Lucky that I don't have to do it, I am happy not to be stuck in a tent, some of us may be and there should be resources on how to network while unhoused.

My indirect strategy of building up portfoleo and then finding people who are interested in it or whatever else I do even if not technical may well be more successful than the most direct way.

[pastel aspen]

Honestly I would literally invest/bet that your approach is better in the long run.

[open ivy]

It is but I am not that good with social interactions so my engine is weak even if my roadmap is solid.

[pastel aspen]

I've simply never seen short-term thinking win in the long term, which sounds pretty plausible when you look at it, right?

re: social interactions, this is a skill you can train. Check out ancient Stoic philosophy, e.g. my favorite Epictetus.

Or as the Hagakure puts it, "When writing a letter, assume the recipient will turn it into a hanging scroll for their wall."

[open ivy]

Good mental health is needed for social interactions, so it is a strat that is not for everyone immediatly it has to be worked up to.

Why we have this:
https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/24/10/what-causing-our-epidemic-loneliness-and-how-can-we-fix-it

[pastel aspen]

re: mental health, if you or anyone you know is suffering in their career due to PTSD or clinical depression, or anxiety (I believe those are the most-successfully-proven three), I urge you to look into TMS/iTMS/rTMS (called slightly different things in different countries).
Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation; painless magnetic brain treatment that restores neuroplasticity etc. Saved my life twice.

I've been prescribed every imaginable class of medication, done like 4 different family trees of psychiatric therapy, etc, this just fixed it and let me change how the knobs were set.

[open ivy]

For those of us who are Americans, how hard is it to build a machine that generates the correct current specs?

[pastel aspen]

For that treatment?

[open ivy]

Yes and how dangerous are the capacitors? I have heard scary stories about flash cameras.

[pastel aspen]

It's safe, it's compact water-cooled superconducting magnets. My doctor (associate editor of the TMS clinical journal!) has this model, and it seems totally safe and benign to me: https://neurolite.ch/en/products/magnetic-stimulation/magpro-x100

The technology involved here is not easy though; his office is across the street from the US National High Magnetics Lab.

But I suggested this to a friend in Stockholm the other day, and there are numerous reputable providers there etc.

IMO this is the tip of the spear for working psychiatric treatments.

(and I say that from the perspective of how our molecular memory engram storage structures work)

[open ivy]

Hopefully it does not cost too much in the US.

[pastel aspen]

Super cheap in my case, not sure if everywhere; here, you have to qualify for it by showing that medications didn't work on you, which is dumb; IMO this should be the first thing that gets tried.
Meds have side effects, this does not, more or less.
0.000000001% of people have a seizure that doesn't come back again.

(Can't remember how many zeroes but my doctor has literally not seen it happen yet, and he does clinical trials on this equipment all the time.)
If a guy with a 55-page C.V. hasn't run into it yet, I'm OK with rolling those dice.

I don't feel like the above is off-topic, by the way; I've lost three jobs due to mental health, and I know a lot of smart colleagues who can't work anymore, etc.

I lost my VMware, New Relic, and Code Climate jobs for reasons that in retrospect are pure mental illness.

[fringe sphinx]

You have a very unusual perspective here. Mass applying has zero cost and zero downside to most people, and it's indeed how many people get their job. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take (- Michael Scott)

[open ivy]

As long as it does not take much time. But when scaled up to 1000+ it can really be a time suck.

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know how one could scale it up that much. There's only so many jobs one can apply to.

[mellow raven]

Is there a future in python development?

[open ivy]

There are at least 100000 open tech jobs and if you pick the top 10% or so that is still 10000.

But if you stop at 100 or so you aren't really "mass applying", especially if you space it out. Once my website is set up and somewhat good I will sniper a few here and there and hope for the best.

[fringe sphinx]

I guess you have an unusual definition of mass applying then. When we talk mass applying, I think we are talking about applying to 50-100. Not 100k

And anyone looking for a job should be able to apply to 5 or more a week.

[open ivy]

I did 800 over a period of time on my last mass apply run. At least I had a few tools that helped me slightly.

And people have numbers going up to 1000+

Yes some people pour energy into that strategy. Maybe not you. Maybe not me, but I do see people basically treating it like a grind and the only way forward.

5-10 a week is a good pace once my website is workable and I have a more coherant picture of myself.

[strong fox]

I try to apply to 2-3 per day

[open ivy]

You feel it doesn't take that much out of you to do 2-3 a day? Seems resonable.

[strong fox]

Its generally doable. My average is probably closer to 1-2 per day though, I just try to shoot for 2-3. It is soul crushing though

But such is the life of a job-seeking developer ig

I'm hoping now that I have worked on making a more solid resume (thanks to a lot of the people here actually), I think I'll probably have better luck. That, and being sure to apply early

[open ivy]

Getting to "soul crushing" is dangerous. If you can just bang out 2 in the morning and have the rest of the day to do other things maybe it won't feel that bad? Treat it like a daily chore. It is ultimately a secondary strategy compared to networking and portfolios, both of which are great learning expirences as well.

[strong fox]

I think the soul crushing part was that I wasn't even getting any interviews (which is not surprising given the state of my old resume), so I'm hoping that will change. I'm also planning on reading and watching stuff related to interviews as breaks from the job search so I can have a change of pace

And networking is something I would like to do at some point, but I am incredibly introverted which makes things hard (especially for in-person events).

[open ivy]

How are your portfoleo projects? They help keep a resume up-to-date and also build skills and show passion in tech.
And could you go to meetups but then take walks from time to time? It is more about familiar faces and less about sheer quantity.

Remember that 2 apps/day is only a small part of what is going on when you also have portfolio projects and outreach both of which are whole worlds to explore.

[strong fox]

My portfolio is decent. It's a lot of things I'm really passionate about, it's just that some of them aren't super flashy (like ML and such)

[open ivy]

Keep up the good work! Having a meaningful task to do (of your choice) that you can see progress over time is so important.

And also it shows tech companies that you care about your field and would be interested in work.

[strong fox]

Ye

[solid parcel]

This is a good video when it comes to resumes. Clickbaity thumbnail, but the video itself is short and contains a lot of data-backed best practice recommendations.

https://youtu.be/sNbOUAkgxCo?si=mvDp3ZkL2nU5ngvz

[fervent forum]

Hello. Does anyone have any roadmaps on how to become a front end developer or full stack developer?

[regal axle]

https://roadmap.sh/
its not perfect. But its a decent place to start

[fervent forum]

Ok. Thank you for providing me this resource.

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not a big fan of 'roadmaps'. What's more important is: the first step is learning programming, and building small simple projects.

And #python-discussion message is a good place to start

[regal axle]

Also not a big fan. But it can be fine as a jumping off point. You don't need to follow it to the letter. But it at least gives some direction. As in, you descover what you need as you start doing the things you need ,,, and while a roadmap can suck, it at least is a way to get out of the cycle.

[unborn horizon]

Hey guys, I have been working on something to put on my linked-in banner, could you let me know if it could work? It is a representation of a convolutional auto encoder (CAE) using images I pulled from a CAE I trained in pytorch

[fallow mantle]

I got 2 separate interviews, one for a full time job and other one for internship. No one has responded in 3 weeks, I think it's back to stage 0

Although stage 0 is very depressing, because working as an office boy, it will be pretty bad if I finish uni without being in the field already I think

Not that I don't do programming in my job (I do mostly data analysis) but it's nothing official

I do ask myself whether or not I'm rushing things...

[solid parcel]

If you're doing it on the job, it's certainly official enough to stick in your CV if you've not already.

[fallow mantle]

Because all this is for sure taking a toll on me

[fallow mantle]

Yah, I actually put in all the software and analysis I made. I sorta happended to specially in data analysis and many automation tools with that

Still in my area all that they want is java, dotnet, react, flutter all at once and you gotta have 20+ years of experience

The 2 back bones of programming (backend and frontend) are not very attractive to me, that's why I stuck more with analysing or even reverse engineering (hobbies)

[fallow mantle]

Still this is what has been in my mind. Everyone at my work who are in different fields told me they only got to work at their fields after graduation

[solid parcel]

There's way more you can do than just frontend and backend dev work. Observability, performance optimisation, platform engineering to name just a few. Go deep in virtually any area in tech and there's a well paying role to be had.

[fallow mantle]

Hmpf, I have tried but at least what I've searched in my area (south of Brazil) there really isn't much to it

Unless you're a senior that is. What else, if there's a single embedded systems job in the area is already a lot

[fringe sphinx]

'Backend' means everything but front end. It's not really a thing.

[fallow mantle]

My company told me they wanted to move me to the it department as well. It's been 2 months since my interview for that too.

[fallow mantle]

I thought backend was just the guy who worked alongside the front end but did the exact opposite of what he was doing

[fringe sphinx]

I never picked my career path, it just sort of happened: prepare by being prepared. Breadth over depth, and pursue every opportunity

[fringe sphinx]

Nah, for several reasons: frontend devs often do server side work. It used to be very different roles, but nowadays the line is blurry

[fallow mantle]

Nowadays all i see is full stack actually

[fringe sphinx]

A 'web backend' is just one part of what 'backend' means: there's -many- roles

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I wouldn't hire a non full stack web dev nowadays.

Maybe 10 years ago sure

Altho even then, node made it easier to be full stack and all js

But yah- there's a lot of SWE jobs outside the web stack.

[fallow mantle]

Yeah u might be right. But it's stressfull to say the least. You never know the day of tomorrow and as of now it's shamefull when I gotta tell uni colleagues that I work with workplace safety. Not that this is the biggest of my problems, being forever stuck with this might be number 1 actually

[fringe sphinx]

You're still in Uni?

[fallow mantle]

Yeah, I get graduate more or less in 2028. Been Getting less classes per semester lately to not be to harsh on myself