career-advice

[stuck barn]

yeah see don't say that

[barren lotus]

hindsight is 20/20 isnt it?

[stuck barn]

say, i know a lot about that, but not enough to implement it without learnings

but it could be a future enhancement

[barren lotus]

i guess im just not built to have a job

[stuck barn]

no you're just being too honest. a good half of being an engineer is politics

[barren lotus]

then i'd rather give up

[stuck barn]

i feel you. i despise politics. you can find an environment that's suited to you. but it's hard and it's gotten harder.

[barren lotus]

this is a research hospital. i would like to think that they would prioritize integrity

[stuck barn]

FYI i'm a 17 year career engineer, i've done backend and frontend, java, ruby, C++, angular, react, all of it. and i'm quitting the industry most likely

[barren lotus]

FYI I have worked 3.5 years

[stuck barn]

so, just know that you're not alone in your feelings

you don't wanna work at that place anyways. if they're looking for people who spin a good tale about how they're going to revolutionize the company with all their insert AI buzzwords they're probably idiots

[barren lotus]

true!

[barren lotus]

<@&831776746206265384>

[still condor]

!cleanban @tawny verge TradingView scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @tawny verge permanently.

[humble scaffold]

guys

is really software engineering worth

[barren lotus]

it's worth learning because it teaches you to break down a problem

[humble scaffold]

well bout financially

[barren lotus]

if you are just doing it for the money, don't bother, you can find something you are more interested in

[humble scaffold]

i like it as a hobby but im also concernned for financially

[barren lotus]

im also implying that it pays well

[humble scaffold]

u sure any examples

[barren lotus]

you can do that research yourself

from websites like glassdoor

SWEs are among some of the most highly paid people in the industry

[humble scaffold]

ok

what do u got to say for an under 18 guy who knows a bit coding atleast better than beginner level but a bit lower thhan advanced, mid

[barren lotus]

there are a lot of people who have graduated college, people who already have internship experience, and they are willing to work for dirt cheap. do you offer anything unique and beneficial for companies that they can gain from hiring you instead?

[humble scaffold]

i dont know, but i can be a unpaid intern with the exception of being training provided so i could build up experience and have a good portfolio

[barren lotus]

you can be paid as an intern too, as long as you have some level of proficiency. you earn a little bit of allowance while also learning in the process

[humble scaffold]

well

any good remote jobs that gives job based on what you've told

[barren lotus]

sorry im not sure

[timid osprey]

Any software engineers here?

Q: what’s better cyber security or software engineering

[regal axle]

The one you enjoy more and are able to get better at

[sinful escarp]

Top 5 projects for python developers.

[novel quartz]

everything without ml has already been built

any general interview tips?

[near ocean]

This isnt the google search page

[still condor]

could've posted a captcha and then an AI overview

[white relic]

banned, code-of-conduct violation

[sinful escarp]

Bro, it's okay if you don't want to say.

[near ocean]

Its ok for you to ask like youre talking to real people too instead of a prompt

[sinful escarp]

Maybe some can help obviously I can ask gpt too. But I wanted to ask someone real.

[fringe sphinx]

Give us some context and what are you asking?

[sinful escarp]

I am asking, what are some really impeccable projects. That is distinct in python.

[winter lodge]

Hey guys, i took your feedback and made this resume as 1 pager, please let me know if this looks good enough to stand a chance or if i should make further improvements to stand out.

[regal axle]

Looks way better ⭐

[fringe sphinx]

That's super unanswerable. For whom? For what purpose? In what timeline? For what skill level? etc.

[fringe sphinx]

I assume you're asking - what project should you work on that'll be great for your resume. My dad answer - something you're interested in, that you are sufficiently interested in that you can make meaningful contributions over a long time.

Could be a game. Could be contributing to an OSS project - small meaningful contributions are (to me) more impressive than some random "I built an AI"

Could be implementing a class of algorithms and doing a comparison of them. Or, reimplementing a system in some other language.

Or, solving AOC using genetic algorithms.

[wintry mountain]

Adding to BillyBobby’s answer, I don’t think there’s a distinct project made only in Python. I’m pretty sure all projects are made available in different languages in different ways. Likewise, best answer for this is just to pick anything from your interest

[sinful escarp]

Thanks @fringe sphinx 🙏

Thanks @wintry mountain 🙏

[smoky quest]

I can offer a different perspective.
AI/ML is a core set of methods and you won't be effective in analyzing data and generating value without it. That has been the case for the past 15 years.

In terms of interviews, you should expect both people at the end of the spectrum to be filtered out:

• The people who despise AI/ML and only know statistics
• The people who only know AI/ML and use it as a magic box (unless it's for low skill and fast throughput, but that is not your target roles )

To be successful, you should ensure you are open minded and just look at them as tools. The best engineers/researchers will know and use both. As an interviewer for a research position, and thus working on open ended problems, I would especially ask questions around what was explored and what was not explored.

(in your case, there are models for pose estimation)

[sullen bear]

I need to learn about how all these works

[open ivy]

My application does much better talking to humans than AI or ATS systems (because it is less about specific "tech stacks" and more about building niche systems).

So maybe I should laser target applications that have anti-AI features? Firstly, if I submit a few highly targeted applications it will be done manually (too small a scale to automate) and I don't want to compete with the spam bots.

Secondly, it makes it more likely they are not using AI to evaluate the applications besides the initial anti-AI screening step. This is because tripping up LLM AIs generally requires questions that ask for bespoke human responses to nuanced problems that are outside of the training data. It takes a human to evaluate the responses.

As one of my personal projects, I am making changes to fluid simulation algorithms to try to improve mass momentum and energy conservation as well as time reversibility.

Copiolet can see simple patterns and reduce the work refactoring small snippets of code. Nice, less grunt work for me. It can also word-complete comments from time to time. It also generates code for plotting my results.

But it has no clue what I am actually doing to the simulation. Or why I am doing it. Or the best way to structure the code at a strategic level. Or the general approach to debugging it.

It will be a loooong time before we get "true AI" which will require massive advancements in quantum computing.

[shy willow]

How are you implementing time reversibility in your fluid simulations, @open ivy ?

[brazen dove]

I recently received the following email on an email I only use for SWE (redacted for privacy):

From: <[Name 1][e-mail]>

Hi [My Name],

My name is [Name 1], and I work closely with [Name 2], who leads our software development team. We are currently exploring a new business concept and reaching out to a select group of professionals whose perspectives we greatly value.

We’d love the opportunity to walk you through the idea and hear your feedback in a brief, informal conversation. It’s not a presentation, but rather an open exchange of thoughts that could help shape our direction. 

If you’re open to this, please feel free to schedule a time through [Name 2]’s calendar here: https://calendly.com/[Name 2]/30min

Warm regards, [Name 1]

Now, like I said the email they used is one I only use for dev/academic research stuff, which makes it seem genuine, but could also have been scraped from the web. I have a modestly successful career but I have few years of experience, so it's weird that they would reach out to me for my "perspective". I also didn't find anything by searching their names on Google. Have you ever seen this? Sorry if this isn't the right place.

[open ivy]

Cells advect by donating mass to their neighbors, but they can donate negative mass as well.

Pressure pushes on neighbors and I am working on an anti checkerboard pressure term as well.

There is flexibility as to the exact rule you specify, meaning a cell moving left can either steal mass from the cell to the left of it or donate mass to the cell to the right of it in order to advect properly. Same goes for momentum advection.

So you find an advection rule that preserves energy in the zero dt limit (except for maybe the 1% of cells for which changing the rules does not affect energy conservation). Said rule also preserves time reversibility.

Then you use RK4 so that energy errors scale as O(dt^4) and get very small for fairly small dt. And use Numpy.

Of course real fluids have viscosity which is irreversible energy dissipation. But you get to control the amount instead of being stuck with numerical dissipation.

[regal axle]

This is so overly generic. It is "possible" that the thing they are doing is not a pure scam. But that doesn't matter. They don't actually know who you are. Nothing about you is in this email.

Chances of it being nothing is very high and likely not worth your time. But its up to you if you want to go further. If you do, don't go through the link. Ask for some information up front and clarification about who they are and what they are about. And things you can look up on your own. But generally, I disregard most ideas / emails through @gmail.com. If you can't even spend the time to have a website / company name, you are not worth my time. (In this context)

[shy willow]

Runge-Kutta ought to be symplectic

and, additionally, you shouldn't be able to get true irreversibility due to energy dissipation without grand canonical ensembles or thermostatting techniques. There has to be a interaction of your small simulation with some sort of a "heat bath", in other words.

[open ivy]

Its not a molecular dynamics simulation so I am not dealing what thermal motions.

But reversibility matters for low-dissipation macroscopic systems as well. For example, solar system n-body simulations use symplectic methods like Verlet or a 4th order method to preserve long-term energy conservation. For my case I can't use a symplectic method because my grid is not a system that can be described as a list of fixed-mass particles moving about. So instead I will use RK4.

[shy willow]

is reversibility supposed to mean that you can run the simulation in reverse, e.g. it is time-invariant?

if you are mentioning dissipation then I automatically think of entropic effects - these do not necessarily imply molecular dynamics

[open ivy]

Yes. You reverse the velocities and it will run backwards up to the limit of IEEE and RK4 stepping errors, checking for said reversibility along with all the other conservation laws is one of my debug tests.

You will have to add a small viscosity to simulate real fluids. But you control how much to add, there will be no extra numerical dissipation.

[shy willow]

I mean, there are 2 things I can think of here: physical energy dissipation that is somehow captured in the simulation, and information loss caused by a particular type of integration.

either of those represents irreversibility, and are very hard to handle systematically. So when you mentioned reversibility, I got curious

[open ivy]

Yes there will still be an irreversaiblity from finite time-stepping (which would not be the case for symplectic methods).

The goal is to minimize this by ensuring a time-reversable "equation" and stepping using RK4. It should be much closer to reversible than more standard fluid methods for simulating low-viscosity fluids.

[shy willow]

so your simulation does not exchange with the surroundings, e.g. it is a truly isolated system, and your integration is time-reversible

Note that time reversibility can mean 2 things. One is the information loss produced by a non-symplectic integration - this is an artifact of the approach. The other has to do with energy dissipation, which you mentioned earlier

[open ivy]

I minimize both.

Many grid-based fluid simulation algorythims are both irreversable (information loss perspective) and non-energy-conserving in the advection rules themselves, such as upwind differences in "stable fluids". They also often violate momentum and mass conservation. No matter how small the dt is they will have these properties, i.e. such problems do not go to zero in the limit of zero dt.

Mine is fully information reversable and energy preserving if you could have truly infitesimal dt. But finite-dt numerical integration breaks both of these and I can't use symplectic integrators to maintain perfect information reversibility. So I will minimize this by using RK4 with small enough timestep.

Adding viscosity breaks both information reversible and energy conservation. But for simulating a macroscopic volume of, say, water a small viscosity is needed to model the fluid quieting down (macroscopically) over time.

[shy willow]

I think the trick is to fold the information theory aspects of irreversibility with the physical aspects. I might have seen this done, in the past, where these two were somehow folded together into the system Hamiltonian

You are never going to remove the problem of information loss, it's unavoidable with that IEEE-754 you alluced to. So maybe figure out a way to represent it as a physical contribution. But this is very hand wavey

[open ivy]

I minimize the loss, and IEEE precision should be enough for a realistic simulation.

[shy willow]

what precision are you using?

[open ivy]

Double precision, but float may also work if I one day decide to GPU this whole thing.

Usually for physics simulation in general, the simulation errors from finite grid size and timestep exceed IEEE rounding errors. Even with float if you take a bit of care in the algorithm.

[unique zenith]

Hi guys,

I'm looking out for some advise from experts here, I'm currently going through a process for a Product Analyst in the Pricing division for an e-commerce website, I never had an interview with a product manager before, any clue what could it be? and also do you know any resources on how e-commerce websites do pricing?

[shy willow]

I recall running out of integers available in the "ring", and having to define a special precision (C++). But that was for a parsing problem

however, it has impacts on grid sizes due to the self same integer range limitations. But your grid has to be absolutely enormous

[vapid violet]

was at a career fair and the employer mentioned something called "tickle" but it was not actuall spelled like that. Has anyone heard of it? For a bit more context it was mentioned after python for scripting/testing I believe.

[white relic]

Tcl, most certainly.

It's a great language. A bit quirky, easy to learn, but only really popular in niches.

It's the native scripting language for Tk (on which Tkinter is based) and it's used for scripting EDA tools (digital synthesis/place+route/verification/etc.), which is how I came across it.

[fathom flame]

Hello I am currently 17 I have been coding in python since I was 12, I began building up a portfolio on github to find freelance jobs but don't seem to attract many customers any advice?

[cunning badger]

im here for a private reason dm me in private for this how to stay fully secured that no one can track you even the police

waiting for dms

[white relic]

Hi, this is the career discussion channel. We talk about career advice and stuff like that.
You can talk about other stuff in the off topic channels, like #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare , but don't expect help with circumventing security systems or anything like that.

that's fine, but still, try one of the off-topic channels

[barren lotus]

in my defense, in the interview i didn't express any opinions on AI/ML (unbelievable, yes, I know), in fact i asked follow up questions to clarify my understanding of their suggestion.

also, the pose estimation models was what I used in the script, we were talking about my past projects (not their research project) so clearly I know some stuff about AI, just not enough yet to answer how to analyze the pose

still, it's over now, no point for me to rue over it now

[vapid violet]

Thank you!

[smoky quest]

yeah, I was speaking in general. I wasn't there and can't speak to the details and intentions in that specific interview

[regal axle]

I really don't like TS/JS. But ,,, am I desperate enough for work to still apply for shops that are 100% TS?
-# yes, I have TS experience.

I can do good programming in TS. I just ,,, don't like to. For many reasons. But should I set aside my hate for the language and apply for these positions anyways?

[still condor]

What do you dislike about TypeScript? Maybe you can work around that

or ways to cope with it, I suppose

[fast fossil]

It could be worse, it could be Java

[regal axle]

The classes of bugs you face when writing TS is some of the most insufferable and impossible to debug / fix. Not to mention the LSP exploding when you have a project of any real size.

I know there is a ton of energy and effort going into fixing that LSP issue (by writting it in Golang lol). But that assumes that the company wants to jump to all the latest and greates versions .... and that doesn't typically happen

[still condor]

yeah... TypeScript is a cool type system that's unfortunately attached to JS

Have you worked with projects that cranked all the strictness settings to the maximum? (like treating array indexes as potentially undefined)

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't, but I would understand if you are desperate enough

[regal axle]

I have worked with high level of strictness but not maxed out

[smoky quest]

that would be an awesome stack to work with

[regal axle]

I don't know if I am ,,, it is really hard to tell. I am on the edge.
I can hold out for awhile longer. But not forever. And idk if I should be cutting off a whole segment of the market just because of my distaste for a language I am perfectly capable of performing in?

[smoky quest]

Rule of thumb is if you can't find a job in languages other than TS, then you wouldn't have better luck in TS jobs. That would be a resume/interview problem.

The other rule of thumb is if you dislike it now, imagine having to work with it every day and hating it every day... not great

[still condor]

I would at least consider positions that are TypeScript + SomethingElse

[regal axle]

The last part is really what I am thinking about.

For me, it is hard to find positions that are not just AI garbage or AI garbage companies. That seems to be the main thing available.
I get an ok response rate for companies that I do end up applying for. The market is just really rough right now ...

[smoky quest]

what's your ratio?

[regal axle]

About 1:4. But I also don't mass apply

[smoky quest]

that's a pretty good one!
With that one, I would focus on non-ts jobs

not even sure why we are having this discussion with that ratio

[regal axle]

Because I have gone through most of my paths that grant me a reasonable ratio. And so what is left are not really my ideal job. Even if I technically am a good / decent fit.
-# Going to eat food real quick. Will be back online in a bit / later

[smoky quest]

If you are considering TS jobs, it means you would hate these jobs more than TS.

And with such decent ratio, focus on your ideal jobs and cross the bridge when you get there

[open ivy]

It seems that company culture and general problem solving approach is more important than language. I could do my physics project in TS web assembly if I really needed to and it wouldn't change my core workflow or what makes my project challenging.

[regal axle]

In theory, this sounds nice. In reality, this is not the case
Some tools automatically lend themselves to specific situations. And when you need to work with other people, it is inevitable that you will deal with said situations

[smoky quest]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. While you could also do it in pure assembly or whitespace, it doesn't mean you would enjoy it as much

[barren lotus]

i love TS lol. back when I started as a intern I couldn't understand at all, but now it's painful debugging vanilla js in code more than 100 lines

[smoky quest]

that's because you compare it with JS.
Bikeshedding aside, I would recommend to learn different languages from different languagesparadigms to see various ways to solve problems and thinking patterns. For instance java/C#, ocaml, prolog, rust or elixir

[barren lotus]

paradigms? FP/OOP?

i can write c++ and java, though i admit i need to learn them more thoroughly. planning to learn rust

[smoky quest]

yes, these are some examples of some

[smoky quest]

And I mean to learn them enough so you do see how to think about problems and design your architecture/solution. Not just picking up the syntax and doing a few leetcode

[barren lotus]

yup you got me there: i only know enough c++ for competitive programming

[smoky quest]

I surmised as much

[regal axle]

In comparison to JS, TS is way better. But in comparison to python, go, rust ,,, most other things: it is not great.

[smoky quest]

It's great to see some of the constructs, but it's not like you will fully experience how to put together a program and leverage them all in a bigger context. For instance you are less likely to use templates in the same way

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> scam

[still condor]

!cleanban @frank locust mrbeast scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @frank locust permanently.

[lilac yoke]

my advice to all is to not focus on language, focus on output. build systems that handle high availability, consistency, persistence, and most of all maintainability. system design is language agnostic, "coders" are a fleeting group since AI

and when you do use a language, learn patterns that are also language agnostic: OOP patterns, functional patterns, imperative patterns, general good code practices. The way you write TypeScript can be identical to the way you write Rust or Python, theyre all modern languages

[regal axle]

lmao

[nocturne lily]

hey guys
I actually want to find some gigs or freelance work thru clients as Im underaged but have started coding (16) . These freelance platforms like fiver and Upwork doesnt work well to find first clients but i wanna start freelancing asap . Can some of u have any contacts or agencies which i can join for freelancing . Im a fullstack Developer.
If some of u have any client contacts and freelance agencies which i can join to provide my services then please tag me here or directly slide into dms .
Sorry for the inconvenience and any trouble caused.

[quiet hearth]

Howdy. I've dabbled in Py,C#/++,Front-end,Java about all you can get probably about 6-7 years ago. So it's safe to say my memory needs rejogged.

I'm asking for an opinion from someone who's coded for 4-6 years. Ideally one of which who has used automation, and/or financial application purposes. I have roughly 6-7 months. What would the best course reccomendation be to rejog my memory, allow me to build a extremely solid fundamental base. Of course my goal is for Financial Applications, pulling information from APIs, appending to excel or whatever you say, and that's truly the base of it.

Theres a multi-million courses online, I'm slightly overwhelmed, I just need a good reccomendation to rock and rolling. Beginners course just to get my memory going back again. I really want to learn all the basics, and intermediate to advanced concepts. However I'm on somewhat of a time crunch to just get a very good base down.

I'd appreciate any input, but ideally from one of which who has taken a similiar pathway as I have. While I'd love to learn all of Python, I want to learn whats truly applicable. Thanks, jon.

[peak halo]

Hello, the unfortunate reality is that freelancing is very competitive. If you're finding that you can't compete with freelancers on Fiverr or upwork, there isn't another platform where you're going to have easier competition.

You cannot ask for jobs/gigs on this server.

Are you interested in how you could prepare for a career as a developer in the future?

[nocturne lily]

Oh okay my sincere apologies for this and thank you for enlightening me in this..

[smoky quest]

Can you give more context in terms of how far you have gonr 6-7 years ago? Like a degree?

[quiet hearth]

I was like thirteen lol, enough to where I want to revise majority if not all basics again. But I'll be able to pickup at a quick rate, and not look at a function and wonder what it does, just need to rejog syntax in-full (I believe). Then divert to specifics, with machine learning and/or async, pandas, websockets and I'm sure a lot more. I just want to work efficiently and do it to a tea, so I'm not wasting hours or days. Each programming language I learned for maybe 4 hours a week for 1/2m; gave up and went to something else because I got new ideas, stinks but it is what it is.

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most compensation and opportunities.

Pick up a book from https://pythonbooks.org/free-books/ and practice to prepare you and have fun

[quiet hearth]

I'm a Finance major, I just need this on the side for what I want to do, but that looks like money.

[smoky quest]

But yeah, what you did 6-7 years ago at 13 years old, doesn't really matter as I hope you do not think you peaked at 13 years old

[quiet hearth]

Oh I'm not dumb trust me, I just know it's fun to me like a game almost to learn.

[smoky quest]

Nice! That's great for finance jobs too!
Then look for computer related classes and pick up a book and practice

[quiet hearth]

Voila appreciate it, debating Data Analytics minor whom knows have to figure that step out lol. Just got free time and need it to be used wisely for the next 2 years type of deal.

[smoky quest]

yeah python is great for finance related tasks

[quiet hearth]

Thanks brother, I appreciate the resources

[smoky quest]

anytime

[spring nimbus]

Hey everyone, I just started a cs degree and am a bit on the fence if i want to continue it. People personally have been telling me that it is a waste of time since the work to be done outside is significantly more so I am wondering if my best bet would be a more pragmatic approach so to just quit and program for about 4 hours a day to build my ability for example.

[smoky quest]

How is dropping from a degree to do a fraction of the work more pragmatic or increasing your chances in any way?

[spring nimbus]

less so about doing a fraction of the work and more about focusing on the aspects that will build my programming skills

[smoky quest]

how do you see this making you more successful than having a degree? Would people with a degree not have any programming skills?

[spring nimbus]

people in the industry have been telling me that a sole cs degree does not benefit their skills as much as expected for employment

[spring nimbus]

and no that's not what my point was

[smoky quest]

The current market is difficult, sure. But not having a degree will put you in a weaker position than if you had one. It will take you on a path of far more difficulties with less compensation and less opportunities

If it is difficult for people with a degree who have awesome internships and great projects, imagine how much more difficult it would be for people with no credential and education

[spring nimbus]

i'm thinking this more as how can i stay in employment and improve and less about getting in if that makes sense

sure a degree I imagine in any industtry would get you through the door but especially here if you cant keep up with the employment and what is demanded of you then it would be a struggle

[smoky quest]

that sounds backward as you can't stay in an employment you cannot get in

[smoky quest]

A degree would provide you the skills and knowledge to remain relevant over time. That's the plot

[spring nimbus]

How come there is such a struggle for people to get employed with degrees then?

[smoky quest]

We are still on the tail of all the layoffs that have happened

And the current economic outlook is not looking fantastic either

And on top of that, the high pay and flexible lifestyle is still attracting many people

[spring nimbus]

alright, so tell me this if i have a stacked portfolio but no degree compared to someone who has a degree and small portfolio would my general opportunities be less than his

[smoky quest]

That's asking the wrong question.
Your problem is there is no shortage of candidates who have degrees and a strong portfolio

And given my experience, most people in your position are severely underestimating what it means to even have an average portfolio

And without a degree, you would need an even better portfolio than the same candidate coming out of a degree since you have to prove yourself

[spring nimbus]

I think building a stronger portfolio is feasible in 3-4 years of dedication

[smoky quest]

Are you willing to bet your entire career on that? If you are wrong, you will be bagging fries

[spring nimbus]

there isn't really much to bet on, I have experience in programming and know that that is the other outcome

[smoky quest]

Then best of luck. I wish you to prove me wrong

[spring nimbus]

so you insist that a degree is necessary to get yourself through the door and provides the skills to remain employed for a decade or so

[smoky quest]

yeah and I am in position to see it every day

[sturdy bronze]

The degree option is more likely to happen IMO. That "portfolio in 3-4 years" dream can easily turn into a "3-4 years wasted in online games" 🥹

[spring nimbus]

i appreciate your perspective i will consider what you've told me

what would you say to somebody who doesn't benefit as much from the learning structure of a degree but is strong at pure programming, I know a couple people in this position

[smoky quest]

The job is not about pissing code. I can hire a self taught who didn't go to school for half your price. It's also the first thing to be automated by AI.
The job is about solving interesting problems and writing code is a mean to an end.

So I would suggest to reflect more about what you enjoy and what you seek in a career

[sturdy bronze]

Trust the process. You'll get through a lot of non-programming stuff (e.g. math!) that will one day make you even better at programming.

[smoky quest]

Writing code is still fun, don't get me wrong, but it should always serve a purpose and be at the service at something. Or at the very least about how you put it together (ie. architecture).
but if your sole interest is about just writing code, you may be in a surprise as well as it won't be what makes you successful over the course of your career.

[spring nimbus]

my point was to somebody who doesn't benefit from the school structure and prefers a self taught approach

[smoky quest]

That's also why you have so many non-purely-programming classes like math and stats and even communication

[smoky quest]

oh then they are wrong and are too young and inexperienced to know what they need

[true heron]

hey, im a SE student currently halfway through their diploma, at the end of this diploma we are supposed to choose which degree we will pursue (choose your areas of expertise)

i feel somewhat stuck between gamedev and just general SE for degree

Before i entered uni i already know i liked proframming, but after the past few sems i think i have a slight dislike over the more "business oriented system development" kinda stuff

im not sure if working in SE is just gonna be like, making the most boring system that everyone else already makes or make soulless stuff that just isnt fun to work on.

i never had any dream of working as any specific position or field, i know i like programming but im not sure which aspect of it can i use to make that my career.

I have some intentions to go to gamedev because I like games, a lot, over how its designed, over how people managed to work out masterpieces,
but then im not sure if this is a valid reason to make it something that i work with

i think i need some input from someone else on this

[spring nimbus]

so you are very passionate about learning cs through a degree structure

but how can you say somebody is wrong for their approach to learning?

[smoky quest]

With confidence

[smoky quest]

I am involved in a lot of hiring and have a network.
So I see the difference every day

There is also correlation between education and income in government statistics like BLS

[smoky quest]

No one can tell you what to choose. Your best bet is to try things and see what you vibe with.
You can also look for which area has more jobs as well in your location

[true heron]

i see

[humble iris]

If you did not start a degree or for some reasons couldn’t do a degree but had some programming skills as your only competency then sure you could put all your eggs in that basket. But if someone is saying you should stop your degree and instead spend 4 years “building a portfolio” they are insane. A degree will open a whole lot of other job options for you, some may even having nothing to do with CS. Secondly programming is not a degree in itself. Most CS majors barely take 2-4 courses which directly help them in doing a programming job. You can learn it later, your employer can teach you/train you. Sure in the current ai scene things are uncertain but a degree in any discipline has some value more than the subject matter you learnt during the program. It can also open doors to further study as tech is evolving you might get a chance do a masters in newly evolving or recently developed technology or do a masters in a different field which does not have some hard requirements to have studied a particular discipline or particular subject matter at the undergraduate level. If you have some programming skills you can still work on them a little on the side when you have some spare time while studying or try to get some related internships at the end of the academic year breaks. And that work experience will hold much greater value for employers. If you had already graduated and couldn’t get your foot in the door then working on expanding your portfolio may seem like a reasonable option. But to consider quitting your degree to “work on your portfolio” is insanity in my opinion. Nothing is impossible and no one can predict the future with certainty but the odds would be heavily against you. While staying in your degree program, working on some projects on the side and trying to get as many internships as you can during the holidays will put the odds more in your favour. Between the two choices you outlined there is only one winner and it’s not even close imo

If you are an exceptionally smart guy with some great ideas and great talent you could still be incredibly successful without a degree. Some of the world’s most successful and richest people were university dropouts. But those people are exceptions rather than the rule. If you have a strong inkling that you have some outstanding ideas and aptitude and you are not delusional then ye you can drop out and take a bet on your self assessment perhaps your time could be best utilised elsewhere but the statistical odds of that being the case are low. Not speaking about you in particular just talking in general probability terms. At the end of the day only you can decide what’s best for you I am just thinking out loud and trying to analyse the situation as best I can.

[delicate sorrel]

Hey I started uni a month ago and I'm almost done with mid sems. I do know very little about the basics of Python but I want to start again from scratch. What's the best source? I'm an aspiring data scientist

I want to practice during my post exam breaks

[fringe sphinx]

Speaking as a hiring manager, I (strongly) prefer people with degrees. Many jobs and doors will be closed without one. Just want you to understand it's not just about what you prefer.

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion ... and hang out there as you learn.

[solar steeple]

I wanna do biochem in the future will python be useful?

[vale hill]

I have worked in IT helpdesk and pursed certifications for Az900 and Az104 and going for the PCEP and Terraform associate certifications. I am learning python and able to solve very easy and litral common sense problems but I am feelingstuck that I am not able to write my own code i am two week into python and currently following the roadmap for python course over the Codechef But not sure about I would pursue devops role and how would the domain change be more smotther into more technical role? any suggestions?

[fringe sphinx]

What do you mean "not able to write my own code"? Are you using gpt? Or are you saying you can't write the types of things you want?

[sly ibex]

From what im hearing. Since im in my last year of college and got the best grades to get onto a 1st year of a CS degree.

Im hearing that doing 3 years of a degree + 1 placement year is becoming a popular approach. Some people top it up by doing a masters after a placement year.

UK student here.

[nimble scaffold]

@ornate shard plz unmute me

@storm bough give me voice permisiion

[peak halo]

!mute 1248909476506107978 Stop pinging random people to ask for voice permissions

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @nimble scaffold until <t:1758729618:f> (1 hour).

[tidal mica]

Hi everyone today I made my first repository my prior goal is to make it the best it can be some help from you guys can help me so feel free to add something or modify the code in my github repo https://github.com/annisvvv/PassWord-Manager and if you have some Advice to make this project known that will help me thank you.

[fringe sphinx]

This is the career channel. You can open a help thread and tag it "code review". #❓｜how-to-get-help

[tidal mica]

Ahh okeyy

[vale hill]

I did take help from GPT to understand certain things to simplify some things for me, but what i meant by not able to comeup with my own code was that people are able to build automation scripts websites and all not sure how I would go about it

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, programming involves always learning something new. So, if you want to do some task, the question is - what do I need to use / learn to do this? Just ask for help in #python-discussion . Over time, you'll accumulate enough experience where it becomes easier.

[vale hill]

I see I did complete the fundamentals they generally take 1 day for my friend But i spent a whole week cause dictionary was causing tumour in my brain, Any suggesstion if I should go for more problem solving or should I go for projects I see over free code camp?

[deft flame]

Hey, I am learning Python from ChatGPT and creating small projects. What can I do to learn it faster?

[peak halo]

I'm saying this to help you: stop trying to learn it "fast". and stop using ChatGPT, which is almost certainly robbing you of making your own breakthroughs that would help you actually understand and retain what you're trying to learn.

[deft flame]

I’m not using it to code, just to learn stuff since YouTube feels slow. Yeah, might have some downsides, but I guess you’re right.

[peak halo]

you won't learn anything from just watching videos. you have to actively write code to apply what you're learning.

[deft flame]

Yeah, I’m learning it and applying it to my own ideas that works better for me.

[vale hill]

No sure of the AI advice tbh the AI makes things simple when I dont get what I am doing by a simple prompt though I make sure to not reply on it everytime I encouter a hurdle

[peak halo]

I would have to read your AI conversations to know how you're using it, but generally speaking, I think generative chat bots make it too easy for people to avoid learning while at the same time tricking themselves into thinking that they are.

[fringe sphinx]

** Also, they said they've been at it for 2 weeks. tbh, sounds like you're exactly where you should be at 2 weeks.

[vale hill]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Makes sense contextually

[open ivy]

Walking the Bay Area, I have passed by so many tents and RVs that I wonder, how many of these are unemployed programmers? Or even employed ones? Extreme housing prices and all that.

For the subset of them who somehow continue networking and portfolio building in such conditions they have quite the willpower to keep going. Makes me wonder that makes them "tick"?

[vapid violet]

Well did you ask any of them? Otherwise you are just saying they could be, but also could be any other profession. Feels like you are trying to create a stat out of nothing.

[near ocean]

Is "unemployed homeless dev in the bay area" the new "struggling actor waiting tables in LA"

[smoky quest]

just working on their startup for the next big thing

[open ivy]

I talked to one employed tech homeless person, making 200k and RV living (which counts as homeless).

Randomally going up to peoples doors is not a good idea, espically in homeless shanty towns! But there are other ways to meet them and over time I will indeed cross paths with them given how many there are.

[near ocean]

I imagine a shanty town around the YCombinator offices in San Fran

[smoky quest]

are they going FIRE?

[smoky quest]

that's how you hustle

[open ivy]

I think this is happening. Because tech work is a lot of creative fun if you think about it. Algorithm design in my case, seeing code "come to life" in the form of demos and games and other apps.

Like if you can make 60k programming or 100k waiting tables, but the 100k job needs a commute and standing on your feet 8 hours a day and dealing with the physical and biological hazard customers bring then it is a fair trade.

[open ivy]

There are everywhere and if I have to live in one one day in the far future it will be West Oakland near BART. Like why live in one in San Jose so far from anything.

[smoky quest]

When you make 200k in the bay area, you live in an RV by choice, not because you must. They have plenty of options with that comp level

[open ivy]

Even with money still not 100% trivial due to credit checks and medical bills (remember this is where 40 degrees is cold not hot). But I agree you are probably correct at 200k.

Now there are part-time gig tech jobs making far less so at 40-60k not a choice anymore.

This is NOT a failing of California for the most part. Yes we can do more, but the fundemental issue is that it is a wonderful place to live.

You have a nice climate, very rich culture, reasonably good safety (compare to Baltimore, Detroit, etc), oceans and Appalachian sized mountains in the same place. Homeless people have a bonus multiplier on how much crime/safety and weather matters.

Where else can you take the local train to a climate that very rarely gets above 30C and dewpoints always below 20C, while very rarely getting 0C freezing cold. And in the summer if you want warm and sunny that train goes to said climate as well.

And good air quality (setting aside 2020) the prevailing winds blow west to east at this latitude.

And a vibrant job gig market for those scraping by.

Like of course it has homeless at high levels no matter what anyone tries to do.

[shy willow]

Go live in Nevada, right on the other side of Tahoe.

You have Reno right there, Carson City, all of Tahoe, a few hours from the Bay area, Sacramento. Not too shabby, IMO

[smoky quest]

the whole west coast is pretty nice

[open ivy]

I don't drive how good is there transit? Also, doesn't it get cold and hot there? Like -10C to 40C? Makes it harder to do stuff although snow IS fun to play with.

Like if I really need to save money and can WFH? But even then lots of bay area in person networking oppurtunities are lost.

I think I can will get enough money for housing by the time I need to pay for one.

For some people it is a good place. For me not so much.

[wraith harbor]

The only 2 places with decent public transit in US are Bay Area and New York
many cities have bad transit

[fiery fjord]

Anyone else have dreams to become a full stack software engineer?

[tawdry grove]

Any hacker rank knowers in chat? I have a little anxiety from some interview I did, I didn't find any submit code button so I ended up just closing the site lol. Did it save or just get deleted and I turned in nothing

[proud glacier]

it probably saved the code locally in your browser, but I'm not sure it was sent to your interviewers
might be worth contacting them to clear things up

[austere goblet]

I am the greatest programmer of all time God chose me to make his temple and he gave me divine intellect

[peak halo]

I'm honored to meet you, St. Davis.
That's not what this channel is about.

[open ivy]

Yes lol troll bragging.

It is frusterating how hard it is to self-assess one's own programming skills.

[wraith harbor]

i dont think its that hard, as long as you can evaluate your projects objectively. i can definitely see my progress and level improving over time

[vapid jay]

How to learn python

[pastel aspen]

Quite a few routes to pick from over here: https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[vast shoal]

Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online: https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc
If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-osiE80TeTskrapNbzXhwoFUiLCjGgY7
I also recommend Harvard’s free online course, CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python: https://pll.harvard.edu/course/cs50s-introduction-programming-python
This is an alternative online course with lots of integrated practice problems you can do directly in the browser: https://programming-25.mooc.fi/

[vapid jay]

can uh advice me to avoid some mistakes that you had made

[static granite]

About programming!

[vapid jay]

Yosh

[vapid jay]

https://Roadmap.sh

Lol

Woah

Yea

Thanku

[vapid jay]

I wanna ask uh something can i

[vapid jay]

Bolo

[vapid jay]

Did uh personally used this roadmap how was ur experience

[bitter crypt]

damn guys i have a long exam on monday, then a software project due on oct 7th

it's all about the basics of python, but for some reason they don't feel basic to me, any tips?

[static granite]

I think the biggest mistake I made in my learning journey was actually trying to avoid mistakes. In reality, programming is all about solving problems, experimenting, and learning through trial and error. Every problem usually has multiple possible solutions, and every concept can be understood from different perspectives.

If we try too hard to avoid mistakes, we stop exploring. We start thinking like a machine—just trying to be “correct”—instead of being curious and creative. What really makes programmers valuable is not that we always write perfect code, but that we make mistakes, debug them, and discover better solutions.

Amm... and

[static granite]

can you give me a clear view of thoughts about basics

[vapid jay]

Thanku so much

[bitter crypt]

we learned about the elements of programming, functions, control (damn this, a lot us got a low mark in our exercise regarding this, i find it really hard that i literally just hardcoded so i still have a few points), strings, lists, tuples, sets, and dictionaries, idk if the learning is fast pace or im just too slow, and i already need to adjust fast or else i will find it hard catching up

[static granite]

Welcome,
So, Make your thoughts and concepts and questions Unlike GPT or any automated system that confidently generates output, a programmer has the curiosity to question, to rethink, and to improve because We always want more perfect. And often it’s not just the problem itself that matters—it’s the situation that tells us which solution is the best fit at that moment.

So my advice: don’t be afraid of mistakes. Embrace them, learn from them, and let them guide you toward deeper understanding. That’s what makes us better programmers.

[static granite]

I don’t think there’s anything “hard to learn” here. You mentioned hardcoding, but that’s actually essential for beginners. So don’t overthink it—learning always starts at a slow pace, not a fast one. Everyone goes through this phase in the beginning.

[bitter crypt]

i know it's okay to be slow but what if the schedule is packed and that catching up seems impossible? the long exam is in 4 days 😭

[static granite]

oh learner, i wana help you in this situation but am not good in English speaking so that why may am not able to get a chance to clear your concepts about basics but if you want so try my best to do it

[vapid jay]

That's pretty good, that link jus give u topics what to study not the video's link.

[vapid jay]

Ohk nice

[bitter crypt]

what do you mean?

[static granite]

i mean you just need to understand that where, how to use these basics which you already learned

[bitter crypt]

applying it is kinda challenging

[static granite]

am i don't no about this term "kinda"

[bitter crypt]

let me rephrase, it IS challenging

[vapid jay]

Which class are you in? How did you learn Python?

[static granite]

When I was learning about control (like conditional statements), I imagined it's like road signals 🚦.
likly:
If the light is red → stop
If the light is green → go
Else (yellow) → slow down and be careful

That helped me understand how if/elif/else decides the flow in code, just like signals decide the flow of traffic.
It is my first experience with control statments

[eager copper]

Tell me what's carrier is best in ai era

[static granite]

that you cover by your curiosity for hole carrier

[fringe sphinx]

"Best" is unanswerable, because careers are not singular things. Engineers change roles job to job... they might start doing one type of development, and then do another type of development, and so on.

A broad technical foundation, and strong core engineering skills, and a path of continued learning is the way to go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QxI-RP6-HM

[peak halo]

whatever you think you're going to do in an AI career, you need to be ready to adapt, because it will change. I'm doing completely different stuff post-ChatGPT than I was before.

[hollow goblet]

i got a question about coding in general i want a future in coding and i know it depends on what i wanna do with coding but im not sure yet so whats a good general coding language? is python good or should i go with something else?

[peak halo]

python is a good place to start.

[hollow goblet]

also what are the main things python can do

[peak halo]

pretty much anything except video games and high-performance systems.

[hollow goblet]

okay ty

[peak halo]

and by video games, I mean like, AAA 3d ones. a lot of people make visual novels in Python

[hollow goblet]

is pycharm a good program to use?

[peak halo]

pycharm is the code editor that I use, but it has a lot of features that can make it overwhelming for beginners.

[gleaming maple]

hey guys , i wanna get into cs coding as a caeerer, im 28 no degree . what path should i take ? thnaks

im currenlry in school for auotmotive

[peak halo]

you should switch to CS.

[hollow goblet]

what do i use then?

[gleaming maple]

i know , and i live in silccaion valley (sf) people are getting fired left and right in the cs filed )

[peak halo]

the market is tough even for CS degree holders at the moment, which makes it even harder for people who don't have one.

[gleaming maple]

dang what should i do 🙁

my goal too work for a start up , then start my own

[peak halo]

in general, I wouldn't advise people to try to start a career in CS right now. but if you're sure that you want to do that, a degree basically required.

[gleaming maple]

im 28 bro , i font have time to get a degree . so i going get a cerfertice

[peak halo]

a certificate won't be enough to compete with CS degree holders who have been laid off.

[gleaming maple]

what that work ?

[gleaming maple]

your not wrong there, that why i wanna start my own

[hollow goblet]

how long does a degree take in us?

[gleaming maple]

4 years at least

[hollow goblet]

thats not too bad u have timme

[gleaming maple]

im 28 bro time is not on my side , :((

[hollow goblet]

its not like ur gonna die tomorrow

[rain pulsar]

I’m 35 and I went back to school. You have time

[gleaming maple]

i wish i my brain woke up like a few years ago , it kinda late not but it better then never

[peak halo]

if you want to do a startup, the people you're trying to convince are investors, not hiring managers. I'm not sure what investors care about (other than, ya know, getting their money back)

[gleaming maple]

i need to work for a start up fisrt so i can learn

[hollow goblet]

how do u even make a programming language?

[gleaming maple]

i fisrt have to go to a commity colllege to learn how to code

[peak halo]

this seems unrelated--maybe ask in #python-discussion

[hollow goblet]

yeah mb

[peak halo]

unless you really like having formal structure, I don't think learning programming at a community college is better value for money than doing it on your own.

[gleaming maple]

its free in san franisco if you live in sf for the local comminty coolege

i might as well take adgavgge of it

[peak halo]

yeah, I guess so

[gleaming maple]

yes sir

[cosmic kettle]

Anyone online?

[open ivy]

There are PLENTY of resources to learning programing basics. Of all the challenges involved in community (job hunting, finding other experienced people to talk to, etc) learning the basics is not one of them.

[proud glacier]

<@&831776746206265384>

[cosmic kettle]

Yeha I thought so

Bro I just want som guidance on the education I could follow

[white relic]

!kick 761289072093298768 advertising

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied kick to @cursive plover permanently.

[pastel aspen]

(After that there's a link to the PDF of the base CS course this uses, if so etc. Thanks, if anyone happens to take a look.)

[vapid jay]

Doin btech in cse ( ai/ml )

[cyan locust]

Why does it always give me an error of my image, even though i have it on my finder, can someone help?

[pine sleet]

Ask in #python-discussion , this is the wrong channel

[cyan locust]

I can't post screenshots there for some reason

[verbal kernel]

Hi.

How do i make a didcord bot

[proud glacier]

create a help thread ( #❓｜how-to-get-help )

[cyan locust]

You can do it with Sapphire

[hardy yew]

import os, it needs opreting system access

[hardy yew]

and put your file and the image in 1 folder that can fix the issue.

[hardy yew]

import pygame
import os

WIDTH, HEIGHT = 100, 800
WIN = pygame.display.set_mode((WIDTH, HEIGHT))
pygame.display.set_caption("Space Dodge")

# Full path
bg_path = os.path.join("/Users/youssufe/Downloads", "bg.jpg")
BG = pygame.transform.scale(pygame.image.load(bg_path), (WIDTH, HEIGHT))

try this. (example)

[fast fossil]

(@hardy yew probably didn't notice, but this is #career-advice, should probably move the discussion to #python-discussion)

[vapid jay]

What Is the best tutorial

[peak halo]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

is it the harvard one or the bro code

[peak halo]

I don't know that either one is necessarily better. different explanations for the same thing work better for different people.

[vapid jay]

but do you think the harvard one is better

[peak halo]

I haven't done either.

[vapid jay]

So how did you learn Python

[peak halo]

https://training.talkpython.fm/

[compact edge]

any googlers in the house?

I'm trying to get insight on the AI/Ml Data Structures and Algorithms Coding round at Google. I've been invited to interview but the prep is sparse

[pastel aspen]

I have a buddy I can ask, lemme see if he's down to send me something to say.

@compact edge OK actually I have a hilariously-useful answer for you. That same buddy recently helped me put together, like, literally a study guide for that type of interview, and he was like "...show them the thing?" and I was like

These references are to sections of this book https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Programming-Interviews-Python-Insiders/dp/1537713949

He is a manager in the Search team and says this is like 90%+ of everything he ever sees in an interview.
Personally I would add a very strong look at graph-coloring to this.

Also he is on a rocketship career-wise so I am confident he is not wrong.

[compact edge]

this looks like a standard SWE/DSA thing

i believe AI/Ml Data Structures and Algorithms Coding is a different special thing no?

[pastel aspen]

That is literally the sub-field I asked him to help me prep a kit for.

I could already do, I think, a systems interview there etc but not an AI/ML one, so I wanted to fix that etc.

I would get a second opinion of course, but I trust my dude.

[compact edge]

ok tyvm. i will be very very happy if it is pretty much normal like that. the doc the recruiter gave me mentions vector machines and neural nets and even simpler stuff like linear/logistic regression which is conceptually fine but i've never done that in a coding interview (Domain > AI/ML SWE in below)
https://www.google.com/about/careers/applications/candidate-prep/swe

thanks again!

[pastel aspen]

I have seen a lot of graph-coloring stuff recently though, hence my suggestion to add that.

[nocturne harbor]

!warn 1420782813556510760 This is not a job board, please re-read our rules.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @zinc yew.

[vapid jay]

Hi Team,
I am a bit curious on where I sit skill levels wise, particular in terms of career directions. Would this be the right place to ask? And, if so, would discussing some projects I've worked on be a good start?

[obsidian acorn]

Have you held any position at any company before, or completed some internships?

[vapid jay]

I have held a position at a company, and no, ive never interned.

[near ocean]

People can only guess at a skill level through chatting, usually you test for these kinds of things
Whats your experience

[fringe sphinx]

One way to 'level up' is to just chat in #python-discussion . You'll learn and find your knowledge gaps just through conversation

[vapid jay]

I built a ML text classification script that uses a logist regression in python (using scikit-learn). I've also created a dependency script that searches through specified file directories for specified file types, and searches for specific dependencies (e.g., it searches excel documents for data connections and excel formulas that import external data, it copies tableau (.tbx) files to %temp path, and turns it into a zip file to read the project.xml file and then searches it for file dependencies usingXPath [it does similar things in different ways for other file types, depending on where the dependency data can be detected) I also have a geographic database using PostGis that I can do some cool data analysis and geographic mapping with geocodes. Im working on a ML model to categories my bank transactions atm

[near ocean]

Thats cool and all but thats just text on my screen, it doesnt really show you can code
Do you have github links, professional experience, etc

[vapid jay]

why am i catching sas 😂 Im just answering a question.

To answer your question: No github, and it depends what you mean by profession experience. These programs are being applied at my workplace, but mainly within my team to help with some of our tasks, but it's not what im hired to do

I can share my screen if anyone wants to see it.

[near ocean]

And you're trying to move to a software dev position?

[vapid jay]

That's sort of what I'm trying to find out.

I really have no gauge on where I sit skill wise. My workplace treats me like I don't know how to code, but the only code they really write is descriptive stats using SAS (they often use 'legacy' code which they copy and paste, but they dont really know what it does).

Some of them have seen my code and think it's cool, but I think they assume it was easy to do because I did it..

So I'm trying to figure out where I sit skill wise and what my options could be career wise.

[near ocean]

Do you have a CV put together? Theres a template in the pins called jake's resume

[vapid jay]

I have a CV and I'll try and find the template you mentioned now.

Found it. I could gear my resume towards style. At the moment it's more project management and data analytics. My backgrounds research, but left my PhD cause it just seemed like a waste, but I know organisation like their pieces of paper

[vast shoal]

Based on this, topics you seem to lack, briefly listed, include: Experience working on larger software projects, automated testing, version control workflows, CI pipelines, networking protocols and APIs, database engineering, system architectural design, cloud deployment, logging/metrics, infosec, frontend development, algorithms and data structures.

[vapid jay]

Yeah sounds about right. My experience with coding is mainly to automate tasks or solve problems. I wouldn't consider myself an IT person, but I also don't think developing those skills would be a huge challenge.

I gather this means my skill level is low/limited in relation to a career. But now I suppose I am interested in where it sits with 'coding' in isolation.

[vast shoal]

I think you seem to have a very constructive attitude given what you've learned already, it's the kind of innovative mindset that you need. I agree that you can probably acquire those other skills if you put your mind to it.

It may still be hard to transition into an SWE role without some kind of formal credential. But you sound like the kind of person I'd wanna work with.

[vast shoal]

If you disregard what you need for a career, then what you "lack" depends on what you want to achieve. You typically need to learn new things for any new project you work on, even if you're an experienced developer.

So like, if you want to make a 3D video game, you probably lack some linear algebra (among other things). If you want to make a web application, you probably lack SQL, HTML, Javascript and CSS.

etc.

[sonic oxide]

Hello team.
I'm eyeing a position in a company that works with Python and e-payments. I'd like to try to build something related to payments or contribute to such open source projects in hope of getting an interview with said company. Do you guys have any ideas or suggestions of projects I can contribute to? Any advice on getting some programming experience in payments?

[vast shoal]

I worked for such a company in the past, but only for about a year. It involved a lot of web scraping, interfacing with bank APIs, typically with OAuth2 authentication and certificates, as well as interfacing with cloud APIs (Google Cloud in my case).

We also had to do stuff like set up metrics and monitoring for payment flows through our service to find and fix issues.

I'm not experienced enough to be able to tell you what's needed for a career in that space, but those things I mentioned are skills I think you're likely to need.

[vapid jay]

Very kind of you to say, thank you! To be honest, I work really hard and produce high quality work, but I often see things others don't, which has caused ripples. For example, I've reported impending data breaches weeks in advance and I was pretty much told I was lying...They ended up occurring and I had to explain how I knew, which was hard..

[vast shoal]

Sounds tough. I haven't been in that situation myself but I listen to some infosec podcasts with interviews of people who got into legal trouble for similar reasons.

[vapid jay]

Yup that all makes sense. Might be something I chip away at and see how it goes. I'd be keen to land a role where I can just just non-stop problem solve, which I feel code invovles a lot of (similar to what you mentioned with identifying and acquiring new skills to complete a task)

[vast shoal]

Yeah, my experience is that you're rewarded for innovating and finding new and better ways to solve problems in my industry.

[vapid jay]

Yeah...Thankfuly I didn't find myself in that position. But, people and organisatons can be funny sometimes..

[vapid jay]

Ahh, that sounds like the ideal scenario. Where abouts are you in terms of work/role?

[vast shoal]

I work for a company that builds systems for financial exchanges, and I'm a senior developer.

So like, trading, clearing and CSD systems.

[sonic oxide]

Thanks!

[vapid jay]

OOO thats dope. I can see the types of dataflows involved with that. Have you ever thought about building a stock exchange data scaping/analysis system (as a personal project)?

[vast shoal]

Hm, I'm not that much into data analysis, so I'm not sure what I'd do with the data tbh. We're also just a supplier, so we build and help install and support operations, but we don't actually run the systems ourselves, so we don't really have access to any live data (except for troubleshooting purposes).

I think our clients are more likely to do data analysis internally.

[vapid jay]

Ah that's fair. I think the main data use is to help predict which stocks you'd buy yourself 🤷 Or, thats at least my intent.

Hmu if you do ever get interested lol.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, I think that seems extremely difficult to succeed at. I figure if people who graduate from top universities and spend their whole careers learning and researching can't consistently beat the market, with all the tools of modern technology at their disposal, I probably stand a snowball's chance in hell to do it. So I basically only own index funds.

[vapid jay]

haha possibly. But, if you happen to find a highly predictive data source for stock market trades, then it could just be a linier regression 😋

[tacit cairn]

you can make your own in theory

lol no thanks

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> scam

[vapid jay]

Ah, that reminds me. Theres machine learning that utilising inductive modelling of data (e.g., you give me crappy pixilated images and you operaitonal condition it when it correctly guesses what's in the picture). Same thing could be done for historical stock prices.

No one take my idea 😜

[tacit cairn]

you could just train a model with old data and have it find patterns and tells etc. and have a probability scale then place investments based on that

in theory that would be the most ‘accurate’ way to do it depending on how much data you have and how far back it goes

[jaunty steppe]

!cleanban 784258077750853652 scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @zealous otter permanently.

[vapid jay]

^^^^^ yum, sounds like a fun project.

With a few additional covariables, id say that's a conceptual strong aproach

[tacit cairn]

nvm he got banned lol.

[vapid jay]

OOf, i probably shouldnt be clicking random links in a d cord lol

[vast shoal]

The problem is that images are static data, but the market evolves in a self-referential manner.

It'll just bake in your predictions eventually.

[vapid jay]

mhmm, Im with you.

My image refrence was more speaking to the concept behind it (which you articulated MUCH better than me lol)

[tacit cairn]

yeah but you’d need somewhere to get decades worth of market data you’d atleast need 10 years for decent results, but the bigger sample size the better. there is probably an API you could use somewhere if I had a guess

[vast shoal]

I think these kinds of projects are fun from an engineering standpoint, but it'd be foolish to try to make money with them.

(or at least bet a significant amount of money on them)

[vapid jay]

@tacit cairn I'd definitly be keen to look into it. More data the better, for sure! I wonder how much decisions influencing stock exchanges hold up over time. And which stocks are affects by what factors.

Hmu man if you wana do something with this lol. Im lowkey keen to collab

[vapid jay]

Never know man! You could get lucky.

A friend of mine is now a multimillionaire from a app she owns based on her photography editing skills. If you have an app that puts filters on your phones pictures...You're probably using her app

[tacit cairn]

sorry can’t i’m currently building two projects myself don’t have enough time for another

[vast shoal]

I'm much more willing to bet on a picture filter app than a market prediction app.

Though I'm not really a betting man either way.

[vapid jay]

haah thats fair. Certainly a bigger markets for it

[vapid jay]

ah thats fair! Im keen to ask what they are, but I feel I've gone off topic in this chanel

[vast shoal]

A picture filter app is conceptually sound, but I think reliable market prediction is theoretically impossible.

[tacit cairn]

i can’t share specific details but one is a tool to assist a safeguarding team and the other is a scraping tool for data

[vapid jay]

Ooooh,cyber sec type stuff?

[tacit cairn]

yes something that would be 100% accurate would be impossible but you could definitely make a precise one

[tacit cairn]

yeah i suppose the tool for safeguarding is sort of - just for automating a manual process they already do

[vast shoal]

I mean one that can consistently make a profit.

[tacit cairn]

this is possible

[vast shoal]

I disagree.

[tacit cairn]

not if it’s entirely machine, you’d need some human input but you could definitely make something like this where you profit more than you lose

[tacit estuary]

@tacit cairn can someone please teach me python?

i need to learn, alot of my 12th marks depends on it and i hope to make a career in AI engineering which requires atleast basic python knowledge

[tacit cairn]

i’m probably not the person to ask - it’s just a hobby for me

[tacit estuary]

i know basic stuff like variables

[vast shoal]

The problem isn’t accuracy, it’s that the market adapts. In image recognition, cats stay cats no matter how many times you classify them. In finance, once a pattern is discovered and traded on, it disappears. That’s why consistent profit from prediction is impossible long-term, the act of exploiting the signal erases the signal.

[tacit estuary]

who to ask

[tacit cairn]

no i’m not talking image recognition, i meant if u fed it consistent data (and old data) not just images of the market day to day

[vast shoal]

I know, the image recognition was just an example.

You can't use old market data to predict the market, because the market accounts for such predictions when generating new data.

[vapid jay]

chat gpt 😛

Google roadmap.SH , it's a really handy website to show you knowledge nodes for specific roles and it includes links to learn about those nodes

[tacit cairn]

oh well the patterns thing aren’t just one time things there are many patterns in finance you could also attach news too it since a lot of trading is done via news, there’s a lot of avenues you can take with it. but you’d also need human input to verify

[vast shoal]

All public information is accounted for eventually. Doesn't matter where you get it from.

You can beat the market with private information, but that's, y'know, a crime.

[tacit cairn]

you can still analyse the market with public data - anything you’d need to know is public

[vast shoal]

Yeah, and so can everyone else.

[tacit cairn]

so what’s your point

[vast shoal]

My point is that public data can’t give you a lasting edge. If you can see it, so can everyone else, and it’s already priced in.

[balmy mural]

I was headhunted and worked for a bit for a company trying to develop models for crypto trading at some point in life. We made profits consistently... during bull runs. And those profits were less than just buying and holding. I still find it interesting and fun to work on trading type projects, but I'd never put real money towards it or invest into a company that does it

[vast shoal]

It's a good cover story for a Ponzi scheme though.

[vapid jay]

did we just become crypto traders?

[vast shoal]

I would advise against it.

[vapid jay]

Probably not bad advice lol

[peak halo]

This would be a question for #data-science-and-ml

[vapid jay]

What's kinda best llm or nlp after 4-5 year? and jus ans who has 3-4 years of work experience as ML engineer or related roles

Note : I'm just gathering data

@peak halo can I jus get some roles here ?

[peak halo]

Nlp is a concept. There is no thing that is "the best nlp".
There's no LLM that's objectively the best at all tasks.

[peak halo]

See #roles

[vapid jay]

I see

[vapid jay]

Ok

I need to contribute with you guys how can I jus be a part of it ? @peak halo

[peak halo]

You are already part of the server

[vapid jay]

Not like this!! In projects and all

Don't you doin something like projects ?

[peak halo]

You can ask what good beginner issues there are in #dev-contrib

[radiant dust]

Which language do you prefer for scrapers in 2025? Python / Node / Go ?
What Proxy Providers do you use?

[peak halo]

Is this related to careers? If not, try #python-discussion

[obsidian acorn]

Not sure if this is a career related question

[novel quartz]

any basic interview tips?

never interviewed for a tech thing before so idk if it's different to other casual job interviews

[cunning lotus]

try to do some homework on the company and the projects theyre taking on and then do your due diligence. It helps alot.

[grizzled pilot]

I'm a 3rd year cs student currently is it possible for me to get any junior level jobs remotely? Where I live it's alr hard enough to get a job even with a degree much less for a student the best I managed to find were internships and even those it seems they don't accept 3rd years so I'm kind of out of ideas

I've tried linked in and other stuff but it seems unlikely for me to find anything. Anyhelp is appreciated.

I have a couple of projects under my belt one is specially more complicated with fast api for the backend and CSS and vanilla js for the front and a couple other discord bots / small games aside from my college stuff

[wraith topaz]

Is this good for computer science degree

[indigo kayak]

no yes

[balmy mural]

If you're still studying, internships are what you'd normally go after. Hard to employ someone full time if they have university classes to attend throughout the day. But fully remote jobs for juniors are pretty rare regardless.

[marble iron]

is there something that we can work online , that pays something small atleast so its better than nothing

[balmy mural]

That will depend on your country. Where I'm from, there are call centre jobs that you can work from home. But hours aren't flexible, so you can't do it while studying. Most of the people who wanted extra cash when I was studying were working retail or waiter jobs

[grizzled pilot]

I see so either internships or just wait till I graduate..?

Kind of stupid considering even entry level jobs ask for 3 years of experience..

[rare pelican]

I recently got a job at hcltech but I want to move into a product based company ! Should I focus on leetcode or building projects ?

[fringe sphinx]

My opinion: 95% projects, 5% leetcode max. Projects are how you develop real useful skills and become an interesting person.

[rare pelican]

Thanks !! Even I feel good when making projects and depressing while doing leetcode 🙁

[fringe sphinx]

Watch some PyCon or Europython videos. You'll see lots of people talking about their projects, not about leetcode/ DSA. This should be a good illustration of what 'real world' engineers do

[turbid thicket]

who wants to build a home page or system i am here

[summer roost]

A job that asks for 3 years of experience isn't entry level, by definition

[leaden ruin]

Who here needs help with getting a job or learning advanced cs or IT?
DM

[white relic]

FYI, we talk about career advice and offer resume reviews, etc. in this channel, there's no need to go to DMs.
Offering or soliciting jobs using this server is against the #rules .

[edgy mesa]

TRENT ITS ME BRO

You gave me advice a year ago

I finally got a job now bro 🎉 🎉

[vapid violet]

I am going to take a hacker rank exam/question for a internship role I applied for. It does not really list any rules for the assessment. Is it expected that I am not using outside resources or is it ok to look things up such as docs?

[near ocean]

Don't these hackerrank tests track clicks outside the page?
I wouldnt risk it tbh

[vapid violet]

not sure, I would think that they would at least warn you about that but who knows ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Well the button that I thought would start the exam brought me to the rules agreement XD

[humble scaffold]

yall

[cinder mauve]

Hi folks, what's your opinion switching career from software engineer to data engineer?

[peak halo]

there isn't a sharp distinction between the two. do you already work as a software engineer?

[cinder mauve]

yeah, i have

[peak halo]

there's not a lot of consistency in the job titles of programmers. a "data engineer" is basically just a software engineer who writes software that primarily moves data or makes data available to other developers.

[cinder mauve]

but, I can see difference in tooling and more of design on db side, pipe lines, distributed systems.

[smoky quest]

in terms of what? Being easy/difficult? Being worth it? What is your criteria for success?
Given how broad software engineer role is, it would help to narrow that part as well

[cinder mauve]

does it worth?, what is the future score, then leaning into ML and AI later, my criteria is purely success as DE, How can be?

[smoky quest]

I don't understand your sentence

[cinder mauve]

is it worth switching to DE?

[smoky quest]

What is worth to you?
There will be people who will flourish and others who will hate it and others who can't do it

[cinder mauve]

I just want to be successful

[smoky quest]

that can happen whether you are a DE or swe

[white relic]

That's epic! Congrats!

[crystal aspen]

Hello! I need opinions outside my circle, and I apologize if this is a very repetitive topic.

To put it in context, I completed a bachelor's degree in computer science back in the day (2016-2018) where I learned programming, databases, computational logic, and application design.

I'm capable of applying that knowledge to solve almost any project or program I set my mind to. Then, I completed two years of 3D design and animation at a university, and while I wasn't a bad student or designer, I realized it wasn't for me. (2019-2021).

Now I'm returning to the world of technology by creating a couple of scripts, learning from books and various documentation, but I still don't feel ready to start a career. Is it unrealistic to try to find a junior programming job with a portfolio, or would it be better to start a degree first? I don't rule out formally starting a degree in the near future, but not yet.

[astral pike]

Hey everyone! Someone recommended I post here, but I just want to double-check first to make sure it’s okay.
I’ve recently started offering Python automation services (mostly things like Excel/Google Sheets automation, data cleaning, and small custom scripts) on Fiverr.

I’m mainly looking for feedback and advice on how to grow as a beginner freelancer in this space.
Would it be appropriate to share some of my small projects here for feedback, or is there another channel/community more suited for that?

Not trying to self-promote, just want to learn the best way to improve and grow while helping others with automation!

[pearl veldt]

theres not a lot of people who know how to work with google apis. they're not beginner friendly nor are they appealing. im sure if you offer to the right audience and projects to establish your rep, you'll be fine

[regal axle]

portfolio implies design? Not all jobs require a portfolio.

Anyways, this is a hard question to answer for many reasons.

What country do you live in?
What is the financial burden of getting more degree?
What type of job do you want, that the first degree you have is not sufficient for?

Be aware that the economy (global) is really rough right now. And so getting a job in general is difficult. No clue how long that will last. And sometimes getting a degree to wait that out is a good idea. But depends on your situation and if you will actually get anything out of more education

[astral pike]

but isn't offering projects considered spam here??

[pearl veldt]

dpnt do it here

[regal axle]

You can share things in this server. Don't just dump projects and expect feedback though. Try to focus on something. You can try sharing in #python-discussion. And just general convo there. If you need help with something, you can try #1035199133436354600

And yea, self promotion is not allowed

[pearl veldt]

maybe try in a server that revolves around teachers for example, only if they allow advertising of course

[astral pike]

I understand, thank you

[fringe sphinx]

You can also open a help thread and tag it code review, or participate in conversations in #python-discussion . It's one thing to ask a concrete question about something you've built, rather than 'please look at my project for no reason and tell me anything'

Or, from a career perspective, ppl will ask questions about their career in this channel, or post anonymized resumes, etc. that's totally cool too

Oh, I think I literally just repeated what Joshua said. Well, 🙂

[smoky quest]

You already got a bs in cs. You don't need another exact same one.
Make sure your articulate your life story/progression, make sure you have a competitive profile and don't hesitate to leverage the other things you have done since then

[crystal aspen]

I currently live in Uruguay. My financial situation isn't bad. I have a steady job, so I'm not worried about anything right now. Boring office work, haha.

On the other hand, university here is free, so I could enroll at any time without any problem, but I don't feel ready to start a career yet.

Right now, I'd like to find something related to technology, be it programming or databases. I'm actually open to several things. I've even been playing around with different hugging face models, testing out SQL prompts.

[smoky quest]

if you are gonna enroll in university again for CS, then either go for a masters or something adjacent. But doing twice the same bsc would not add value

[crystal aspen]

Thank you very much! My concern stems mainly from knowing that the market is saturated right now, with so many bootcamps and general economic issues.

On the other hand, do I understand that having a university degree is completely different from having a bachelor's degree?

[smoky quest]

I am confused. You said you already completed a bsc in CS in 2018?

[crystal aspen]

Yes, sorry for the misunderstanding. Here we call the last years of secondary education (before University) "bachelor's.". But is different from a university degree

[regal axle]

It used to be not as important. And it isn't technically a requirement today. But not having one requires a lot more work and way more luck.

The market is saturated. But people still need programmers. I wouldn't say it is overly saturated. But others would disagree with me

I would go for your university degree if it is not a financial burden on you.

[smoky quest]

oh

[smoky quest]

A university degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[crystal aspen]

Thanks everyone! It helps me get out of my echo chamber

[fringe sphinx]

You sure? That sounds very unusual.

[crystal aspen]

I don't understand your question, what do you mean by "unusual"?

[smoky quest]

it's very common in some countries with latin roots

[grizzled pilot]

Linkedin seems to not get that 🥲

[summer roost]

In what sense? You search for entry level jobs and find ones that require experience?

[grizzled pilot]

I wish it wasn't the case but yes.. I filter in entry level and at minimum they require a year... Which I do not understand at all.

[summer roost]

Well, that's just not entry level. It's not ideal if filtering by "entry level" finds jobs that aren't entry level, but really, jobs that require previous experience are by definition not "entry level"

Please delete this message. It violates rule 6 and 9. See #rules

[still condor]

!cleanban 1417273919446188235 some sort of scam

[summer roost]

!pban 1417273919446188235 scam

[inner wren]

:x: User is already permanently banned (#105835).

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @thin portal permanently.

[edgy mesa]

Do sql stuff, more practical for businesses

[fringe sphinx]

Huh, never encountered it... guess it's my thing to learn today

[smoky quest]

See Spain or France

[hushed anvil]

I am depressed because of study and job competition in my country

[smoky quest]

it would be advised to reach out to a health professional. This is not something this discord server is equipped to deal with

[barren summit]

Hello

Is there a Python-related job section available here?

[hushed anvil]

Not depressed but sad and feared

[hushed anvil]

Huh…..are you a freelancer from india?

[barren summit]

Are you also from india? yes my work and potfolio is here https://computelabs.in/

[hushed anvil]

Didnt you got placement in collage?

if you are a good software expert

[barren summit]

I am working professional over 10+ years now actively seeking for job or project.

[smoky quest]

I am not sure it would change my answer

Or do you have a #career-advice related question?

[hushed anvil]

Yeah….my question is ..i am 15 and i started learning python and lua…….is it a good choice that will give me advantage in collage and placement days….i am working on some projects with a team which i think will impress interviewers that I started making team projects at a early age…

[hushed anvil]

Do indian programmers earn good like 1 lakh monthly

[smoky quest]

I would assume colleges in your country care more about grades?

[hushed anvil]

Like 70% of engineers are here unemployed….although they have good grades but they dont have experience and skill that companies need….so I am developing experience and skill at an early age

So i can show my project and portfolio to the company

Like 99% of people here start learning languages in collages…it will give an advantage to me if i start it now and will make the overall gp high

[smoky quest]

what makes you think they do not have experience or skill

[hushed anvil]

Like the top collages here are called iit…..2 million people here give exmas for that and only top 10000 gets admission in iit……rest gets no collage or some govt collage…..iit teaches everything to perfection….but the rest collages just give degree and assignments but no skill and experience

[smoky quest]

that brings more questions:

• Why can't you go in the top college?
• Why would not top colleges impart you experience and skills?

so you are saying that students at non-top university have no exercises, no projects and no internships?

[hushed anvil]

They have but not that level which are required by companies

[smoky quest]

what might that be?

[hushed anvil]

The education system here is trash

[smoky quest]

they seem to be doing well though. I know many great Indian engineers

[hushed anvil]

There are cast reservations here…..a person belonging to higher caste dont get a government job at 95% wheras a person belonging to lower caste gets it if he scores 60%

[hushed anvil]

They all are from iit

[smoky quest]

they are from various schools and castes

[hushed anvil]

Caste based polotics….i belong to high caste so things are very difficult for me

[smoky quest]

yeah I have seen some caste discrimination but we told them to fuck off

[hushed anvil]

In earlier times lower caste here was treated like animals by upper caste…….when India finally became Independent…..they made a reservation system for lower caste in every post to make their status high in society……after 80 years….they lower caste has a equal status in society still this law is continuing…..a girl from a very rich family but lower caste is getting government job on 60% as per economic weaker section and low caste but a boy from a poor family and upper caste is still not getting jon on 90%

[smoky quest]

I can't speak about this specifically.
I have mostly seen higher caste people looking down on lower castes and excluding them

And that's also quite far from #career-advice

[hushed anvil]

This system is only in government jobs…..private companies dont care about caste

[smoky quest]

Companies don't care, but people do care somehow

[hushed anvil]

Yeah

[smoky quest]

Glad to hear you think it's outdated too!

[hushed anvil]

Now instead of arguing about indian system i should give my best

Thanks for discussion @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

you can do it! Be the best you can be!
There is a principle called "of no regret"

[novel quartz]

how do I answer non technical questions like "tell me a bit about yourself"

[smoky quest]

what's stopping you from telling a bit about yourself?

[novel quartz]

Like I don't know the context

do I list my hobbies? why I want the internship? experience in the area?

[smoky quest]

the context is to get to know to whom they are talking to

[smoky quest]

whatever makes sense. Have you ever dated?

[vapid jay]

Whichever your msot comfrotable with. If it's regarding this discord servers prompts, I think you only really need to say 'Hi, im greengas' (or similar)

I barely even did that to be honest...I think I just said 'hi'

[novel quartz]

Applying for internships

[vapid jay]

OH! LOl, my bad dude

[novel quartz]

I guess but the interview is so different

[vapid jay]

Generally, you only list things about you that are relavent for the position.

[smoky quest]

not really

[smoky quest]

you still need an elevator speech to introduce yourself, be it when dating or interviewing. Think about it like you get into an elevator and you get 20s to give context about yourself and demonstrate you are worth the time learning about

[novel quartz]

so experience in the field? why I want the position? It's so open ended

[novel quartz]

I don't know if this question is even asked in tech positions

[open zephyr]

I'd say why you are the right candidate for the role and how you will elevate the company based on your experiences and skillsets that are fit for the role. You are basically a salesman selling in yourself to the company (of course if you over-promise then under-deliver you're going to have a bad time)

[smoky quest]

this is asked pretty much every single time, in one way or the other

[smoky quest]

how you started, your story, and how it brought you where you are today.

[smoky quest]

this also reminds me of https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21422-i-didn-t-have-time-to-write-a-short-letter-so

[novel quartz]

there's so much I can say though

[smoky quest]

that's the point

it's not about what you want to say. It's about what you want the other party to know

[novel quartz]

so past work experience? where I studied?

ok do they really care about this answer or is it just like an icebreaker thing

[smoky quest]

yes and yes

[novel quartz]

Isn't all this a separate thing though? like "why do you were the job" or "why are you qualified"

[smoky quest]

they are separate

[novel quartz]

how is the answer different then 🤔?

[pastel aspen]

Just catching up, in the scenario here, are you already in the interview? Or is this phone-screen/cover-letter land?

Because early on, what your answers should be about is "Why I am interesting enough to interview" generally.

Whereas in the actual interview, it may make more sense to bring up things that are more closely-related to your intended role.

But for sure if they ask you about specifically non-career stuff, mention what you like to sail or paint or listen to black metal or whatever.

But if it just so happens that your sailing experience "huh, just realized this" happened to teach you leadership skills...

Always try to support your claims in an interview with some kind of other angle on your life that lends credence to it, if possible.

What that means in any given context is something you'll have to work out, often on the fly, but it's worth attempting at least.

When I interviewed at VMware, they converted my half-day to an all-day after the first couple people talked to me, and then they offered me a more-senior role than I had applied for haha

Very rarely, but not never, the power move is to crush the interview but then decline the offer for not being enough to leave your current role.
I did that in 2017 and they called back and gave me a waaaaaaay better offer.
They had had a meeting and changed the pay scale for how they were hiring everybody, after I turned them down hahaa

[novel quartz]

Pretty sure it's an interview? maybe a screening

[novel quartz]

should I spin such an open question into bragging about leadership skills?

[pastel aspen]

Situational... Avoid the "bragging" stigma for sure, it's often reasonable to present something as an idea that just occurred to you, vs. "Haha let me tell you about the time I totally kicked ass"

I don't mean to sound like I'm always dissembling.. but interviews are weird high-pressure scenarios and you need to plan ahead etc.

Paul Dirac, one of the smartest folks born in the 20th century, never started speaking a sentence until he had written it in his head fully.

(He taught at the local university here at the end of his career, and apparently sometimes he would just pause in his lecture for many seconds, then carry on)

[novel quartz]

ok I feel like I've narrowed my weakness, open ended questions are hard. technical and charisma too of course

[pastel aspen]

My career has been so diverse, I actually kinda need to do the opposite, and work hard to avoid too many tangents while being interviewed.

(If they ask I answer of course, but I try not to then let the convo branch 4 times etc)

It's too easy to end up talking about distributed filesystems or whatever now 🙂

[novel quartz]

I feel like I can talk too much at times. like pqrt of the problem is that there's so much to say the question?

[pastel aspen]

Though actually, if you have a lot of "working-set memory" skills, and you bring the interviewer back to THEIR point after they lost it, I can hardly think of a way to score more interview points.

[pastel aspen]

Like Mark Twain said, "If I had time, I would have sent you a shorter letter, but I was busy, so I sent this one."

Brevity is a skill that takes earnest practice. (A funny thing for me to say under a wall of text I wrote.)

Last thought before I crash for the night, always pay close attention to your interviewer's body language, and let them speak the moment it looks like they want to.
You always want to hear what your interviewer is thinking as soon as possible.

[novel quartz]

Really impressive, def not qualified enough for that though 😆

thanks for the advice all!

[young tiger]

hello

[crisp stream]

Sorry, but our rules forbid soliciting our members for money. I hope the GoFundMe works out though!

[nocturne harbor]

@earnest knoll ^

[tacit estuary]

can anyone be my python master? i wanna learn man

[fringe sphinx]

You can ask questions in #python-discussion or open a help thread #❓｜how-to-get-help . People here are happy to help in public.

[fiery gull]

Automation have been giving me back now I love you all.

[uneven bear]

python is my favorit

[safe barn]

Tbh i think its the opposite. Ive tried so many sites, fiverr upwork joining communities and is very very hard to find decent freelancer.

a lot try to scam, others to overcharge. The value one gets out of a freelancer is much smaller than that of someone who hired full time.

To find a freelancer that does the work well at market rate is rare. Makes sense, cause those people are more likely to have already found work full time with clients.

[stray tiger]

how does cloudflare detect automated clicks?

[peak halo]

I can see how that could be the case for experienced freelancers with many years of experience in their focus area, but the people who come here saying "I just learned Python, how can I start earning money right now on Fiverr" don't fall under that, so they're going to be competing with the first group you mentioned and will have a hard time standing out.

[stray tiger]

on the captcha

[peak halo]

if you're using cloudflare appropriately, why does it matter?

[stray tiger]

im curious about how it works

[safe barn]

true that, its hard as ever for beginners, especially since for the most basic tasks ai can get most of the job done

[peak halo]

also godlygeek (who knows a lot about industry) said something similar: #career-advice message

[safe barn]

idk if there are alternatives to hiring others. as i dont have a company yet, i cant really go on linkedin or indeed either

[ivory bone]

hello

I've only recently started to get DECENT at python.
I still don't know many advanced concepts but I'm learning new things everyday.

I can't decide what I should do next. after seeing other people's portfolios, I get 1000 things In my head.

I can't decide whether I should target lower level languages
or
web development/ web frameworks

So far, when it comes to programming and hobbies I've only done stuff in python, know little html, bootstrap, and I also like graphic designing if it helps

[desert ocean]

You’re exactly like me

[ivory bone]

I want to target a flexible position in my career where I know skills that can be applied to many things (think about AI/ML)

[ivory bone]

;-;

[loud sage]

id say before you do other languages get REALLY good at python

[rare pelican]

How good is good lol

[rare pelican]

I’ve been coding in python for almost a year and half and still not confident!! And I’m not sure how much I should learn

[safe barn]

Are you a student ?

Id say dont learn lol, if you simply tackle something you dont know you can do it, 10x longer than someone experienced sure
Then you repeat, next time it will be 9x as long as senior dev then 8 etc until you become senior yourself

[rare pelican]

Actually tomorrow is my first day at work

[safe barn]

Nice, good luck man.

[barren summit]

Nops here programmers are underpaid, it's tough to sustain as programmer

[safe barn]

What would you say its a good salary for a 2-3y experienced dev ?

Id happily pay 1000$ / month for a good dev, very hard time finding one

[barren summit]

That really depends on the domain and the type of problems you expect the developer to solve.

@safe barn I’d say $1000 USD is quite reasonable for a remote developer like us. Could you clarify what responsibilities and expectations come with the role?

[safe barn]

For example web development, full stack

I have a few projects that need doing, mostly react frontend and python backend very simple stuff.

[barren summit]

?

[safe barn]

Sorry but due to previous experiences I've banned india, pakistan from the map

[barren summit]

oh. sad to hear that and yes i can understand.

Anyway 🙂 but i am based in nepal

[warm sundial]

I don't think that is reassuring in the least...

[barren summit]

I’ve had some challenging experiences with US clients paying less, but I don’t generalize there are good and bad everywhere. What I can assure you is confidentiality, transparency, and acting in your best interests.

[barren summit]

It appears he may not be seriously interested and is simply testing or probing

Since I handle marketing for my startup, I’ve developed a good sense of reading people’s intent from their statements.

[warm sundial]

If that is the case, why did you send him a link to your website?

Anyway. Best of luck to you

[barren summit]

You don’t always grasp it at first, but when someone discriminates based on region, it reveals a mindset and often, like attracts like.

[warm sundial]

That's interesting you interpret it this way, because he clearly wrote

due to previous experiences
N.B. plural
Also, Nepal is currently in the middle of a governmental overthrow which it won't recover from for a few years... I think bro just wants a stable life like everyone. I can relate to that

[barren summit]

I’m not sure about his experience, but with us everything is fully legitimate payments go through approved banking channels in parts, with full transparency and written agreements

[warm sundial]

Everyone says that, too. Your word means little as a token of trust

[meager nova]

hi i created a code that can give you some random passwords can you tell me if it's good ?

[barren summit]

We use trusted payment gateways and reputable services like Google. Our charges are based on project completion, and we always act in the best interests of our clients. You’re welcome to verify this

[warm sundial]

Oh and pray tell, how would I verify it?

[barren summit]

Everything we do is visible and transparent to both the client and us, and there is always time to step back if the terms and conditions are not satisfactory

[ebon elk]

what is business logic?

[meager nova]

here is the code i think that it's really good should i upload it on kaggle . for info i did it on visual studio whit python 13.10.11

[inner wren]

Click here to see this code in our pastebin.

[barren summit]

check out site.

[warm sundial]

Terms and conditions mean nothing if it's a scam

[barren summit]

If it were a scam, why would banks and Google services approve it? We are already serving clients successfully

Anyway, let’s leave it here I’d prefer not to continue this discussion further

[warm sundial]

Doubtful. I'll wait for third party verification before trusting a money involved service

[barren summit]

Payments are processed through international channels with proper terms and conditions. Our clients don’t need to worry they can always raise questions if in doubt, and we use only reputable services

And what we build is reputable

[whole flare]

!rule 7 This is the wrong channel for this.

[inner wren]

Rules

7. Keep discussions relevant to the channel topic. Each channel's description tells you the topic.

[meager nova]

sorry mb

[warm sundial]

"Trust me bro" will not work on me. Either your service is reputable or it isn't. In the absence of a third party verification, I will not access any site you post

[barren summit]

We even conduct KYC for our clients, and we do not encourage scammers in fact, we log complaints against them.

[whole flare]

Likewise as above

[warm sundial]

#career-advice message

[whole flare]

!rule 7 9

[inner wren]

Rules

7. Keep discussions relevant to the channel topic. Each channel's description tells you the topic.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[proud glacier]

<@&831776746206265384>

[rustic anvil]

Alright man I'm austine great Leo, a backend Dev, trying and hoping to get an internship job, I'm in Poland, Europe, please can anyone help me with a link to get a job please,or a referral, I will be very happy, and b happy to share a percentage, thank you 🥹

[barren summit]

I’ve seen cases on Upwork and other freelance platforms where sometimes clients scam or even the platform fails.

To address this, we introduced KYC for both parties, use trusted banks and reputable channels, and ensure everything is backed by a written agreement

[rustic anvil]

Honestly 😭

[peak halo]

Like I said, you can't ask for jobs directly. What are you doing to find jobs? Maybe you can post your resume so people can review it.

[rustic anvil]

Alright I will do it shortly

[warm sundial]

Why do you DM me?

[rustic anvil]

Yes sir for job sir

That's same thing I'm asking every where, if I could get an internship,buh I wanna post my resume

[barren summit]

I’m not sure how you see it, but here Gov, banks, Google, and Microsoft have verified us as a legitimate business to operate.

[rustic anvil]

Please boss, any advice on that please 😭,I don't wanna be cooked

[peak halo]

@rustic anvil don't send unsolicited DMs. This is your only warning.

[rustic anvil]

Alright please a detail, ion understand?

[rustic anvil]

Alright I'm sorry, don't get pissed,my bad🧎🙏

[wraith harbor]

Feel free to share your resume here for advice

[barren summit]

All our project details and services are clearly mentioned. We even conduct KYC for our customers, and though we operate in retail, we also promote the Python foundation.

[rustic anvil]

Thank you so much,u got a reward in heaven 🙏

[rustic anvil]

How do I get in touch God rewards you for this 🙏

[barren summit]

We usually begin with a face-to-face meeting to get to know each other and understand your requirements through a booking calendar, after which we suggest the best way forward.

[fast fossil]

could you... not abuse markdown like that?

[proud glacier]

what is going on here today

[rustic anvil]

Alright boss,I'm loyal🧎, to your request 🙏🥹

[wraith harbor]

That person is trying to get you to buy their services

[rustic anvil]

Really? how do you know 🥹🙏

[barren summit]

You don’t have to say like that and show those emoticons, we believe in mutual respect beyond color, caste, or creed, and we operate globally with that principle.

[rustic anvil]

I stood 10 toes down boss

[barren summit]

read our terms and condition 11. point.

[rustic anvil]

Alright.

[rustic anvil]

How do I get in touch boss

[barren summit]

If you open the site, you’ll see my email and a calendar to book a meeting at the bottom right corner these are the two options I provide.

[peak halo]

<@&831776746206265384> I think these two are doing a business arrangement right here?

And I've told @rustic anvil a few times to stop asking for jobs

[rustic anvil]

In your DM right?

[leaden jasper]

@rustic anvil@barren summit This server is not for recruitment or paid work.

So continuing to do whatever sketchy transaction needs to stop immediately.

If it continues I will either mute or ban you entirely.

[barren summit]

@rustic anvil Yes, that’s better we should not violate anyone’s rules.

Please don't talk any business deal here, if you have make it dm

[rustic anvil]

Please sir give us a little time, we will soon be done🙏,u said no DM, now we are on public chat, u are still refusing

[leaden jasper]

Telling people to DM you to continue whatever sketchy transaction is against our rules.

!mute 1397577253185126471 Disobeying direct moderator instructions.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @rustic anvil until <t:1759092005:f> (1 hour).

[leaden jasper]

!ban 979016151688429569 14D Recruiting on our server despite multiple warnings not to, urged people to DM them.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @barren summit until <t:1760298044:f> (14 days).

[leaden jasper]

So I think things should be pretty clear now:
Absolutely no recruiting for work on this server. That includes telling people to DM you so you can take it off server.

[meager nova]

this is a code that i created on vs code with python 13.10.11 . can someone judge it please ? and also i recomend you to try it . it' a code generatore where you can tell how much codes you want it to generate you and how much carcters . also last question , should i upload my code on kaggle ?

[inner wren]

Please react with ✅ to upload your file(s) to our paste bin, which is more accessible for some users.

[vital wyvern]

#python-discussion but consider opening a help thread.

[fast fossil]

May I ask why you decided to post that in this channel in particular?

[meager nova]

can someone test it and give a feadback pls ??

[near ocean]

This is the career discussion channel, your message is offtopic

[warm sundial]

Thank you

[peak halo]

You were misinformed. Posting jobs is against the rules.

[river isle]

Reddit lies again.

[main isle]

make some good chocolate senior wonka

[fringe saffron]

fr

[woven shard]

come to voice chat 0 all

[wraith harbor]

Any advice on emailing people about jobs? Typically I say my name and what position I'm inquiring about and where I got their email from, then 3-4 sentences about my career and also attach my resume. You think thats good or I should do something differently?

[peak halo]

is this emailing people about jobs to which you've applied?

[wraith harbor]

this is emailing them to apply

[peak halo]

I've never heard of someone emailing to apply. I've only ever heard of people completing applications.

I wouldn't "email to apply" unless you're sure that that's how they expect to receive applications. which I think is pretty unlikely.

[wraith harbor]

ive seen it specifically on ycombinator for the most part

[white relic]

For me, there is no application until the candidate enters their information in the ATS.
People do occasionally try to reach out by email and linkedin, but that has to be accompanied by actually applying to an open position, otherwise it's just shouting into the void.

I don't work for an especially big company, either.

[wraith harbor]

interesting. maybe ill ignore the emails and try to find the ATS entrypoint (or whatever the right term is) instead

maybe if they provide their email its good to apply and then also email? kind of seems unnecessary, but why do they give out the email in the first place then?

[pastel aspen]

It's trendy right now for VC-backed startups.

[white relic]

I've done "email to apply" (as the applicant) one time and it was in a startup context, so that checks out.

[pastel aspen]

@peak halo Took me a minute to find the most-recent example I bumped into; here we go, new 8VC company: https://www.thorin.com/

[smoky quest]

I think people are getting confused by multiple things here:

• ycombinator seed series are like two teens in a garage. They barely know what is an ATS or haven't reached the stage where they have a need for an ATS (who would want to join two teens in a garage?)
• Is it something they specifically ask or is it a way to try to beat the crowd and reach out directly to the founders?
• a 2 people startup won't behave the same than a 20 people startup which won't behave the same than a 40 people startup, which... So you should not impose the expectations of a FAANG onto a startup comprised of two teens in a garage

[pastel aspen]

Yeah, the hiring procedures evolve continuously and that never really stops, just slows down.

Your first five engineers are totally crucial in a way that your 18th just isn't, no offense to them.

[smoky quest]

and totally different set of skills required

[pastel aspen]

Yeah, your 18th might even be a more-accomplished engineer, but your 4th constantly has crazy ideas that sometimes work etc.

[smoky quest]

and that company might be too big for that 4th engineer who might then go to another early stage startup

[pastel aspen]

Not trying to say my ideas sometimes work but honestly that is basically what my resume looks like haha

[smoky quest]

based

[pastel aspen]

If I had torn up my stock options and sent them the photos less often, I might live more comfortably at this point…

[smoky quest]

you can't time it anyway. I know people who refused to join whatsapp or held NR stock too long or too little

[pastel aspen]

Luckily as long as I can have the occasional spicy tuna rice ball, and a fresh computer every once in a while, and fiber internet, I’m good. 🙂

[hushed anvil]

What about an engineer graduated from a normal government collage?

[trim crypt]

what about? It would be difficult but it also depends on the job market and see how many are willing to take on fresh graduates. They might underpay you but I don't know if you would have the luxury to be so picky.

[hushed anvil]

I think freelance is also a good option because…..i am happy in $1500 month

As my country

[trim crypt]

does that mean you have a customer to service every month?

[hushed anvil]

I am 15…..i am talking about future

[trim crypt]

Do either. Do freelancing while at the same time apply for jobs.

[hushed anvil]

I will….thanks for advice
Wish you a good day mister

[near ocean]

It's very optimistic to think that you'd make any money to live on as a freelancer with no experience

Bordering on delusional levels of optimism

[muted star]

@sand sigil bit bit karbit cewe gatel najis ganti pp reze lu itu, btw kalo kita bisa python bisa berkarir jadi apa ya

[whole flare]

!rule 4 please use English.

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[hushed anvil]

I have my whole life left to gain experience………

Just wanted a reality check

[near ocean]

Youre probably not going to gain any significant experience going straight into freelancing without a degree or stable salaried job

[hushed anvil]

Like in my country..python programmers only get $500 month with intensive workload……i am scared from this……..like anyone can live a good life here with $1.5k a month……for Americans and other foreign country clients $1000 dosent really matter much so that why I was thinking of freelance

[near ocean]

Why would someone pay you so much more when they could pay you the same rate as the rest of the programmers in your country

[hushed anvil]

Clients of my county pay less but in foreign they pay more

Bcz average income here is $350 like something

[hushed anvil]

Maybe i should give up

I am depressed seeing the competition and workload

[near ocean]

Maybe you should take the path most people take and succeed in, degree and salaried job

[hushed anvil]

Maybe…but if i take a path of salaried job then I should leave the programming field bcz no respect of programmers here…….maybe i should prepare of the most stable and stress free job in my country which is a government job

[leaden bramble]

what is even the collective goal of all the programmers? to feed the greed (to the people in power)?

[hushed anvil]

Programmers are exploited

[near ocean]

I'll ask for a statement of purpose at the next global programmer cabal meeting

[vapid violet]

My opinion

• Make things to make other things easier
• Support advancing technology
• Support open source
  But my guess is this will change greatly depending on who you ask

[carmine dove]

I think you should stop thinking about the competition and focus on improving your skills. Just start a project of any kind really and the skills and opportunities will follow. I'm a fairly beginner too so I know how you feel.

[static granite]

succeed 😐 Really! may you need to study about succeed and freedom of human.

[near ocean]

What does this mean

[static granite]

you are programer so i will tell you other view these thing are up to majority of people even he is some thing that we are dream

[near ocean]

Im still not sure what you mean dude
Try again please

[static granite]

do you understand English

[near ocean]

None of what you said here is comprehensible english
Maybe use a translator

[static granite]

😀 yes may you are right

let forget about this for the time , i thing we need to improve my English

[rare pelican]

Guys I am very interested in contributing to any open source ! But I don’t know where to begin because everything looks very complicated 😭 !! You guys have any idea on how to start ?

[pastel aspen]

Find a project you are passionate about, read all their GitHub issues, try to find the easiest thing they haven't done yet, and try to do it.
If you can't get it across the line, find their Discord/IRC/Slack/whatever and ask politely for someone to look at what you have so far etc.

That "thing" can easily just be a documentation improvement around something that confused you.

[hushed anvil]

ok accept my req

[stray tiger]

does cloudflare detect and block chromium or does it treat chromium the same as chrome?

[main isle]

The goal is to make money till you drive the lambo anf to make life better for people by software

[high silo]

hi i got a codeacademy pro membership after making code academy membership

i liked data science but now idk about it what tech fields would yall recommend

[main isle]

it depends on what you like

and what is demanded on the job market or for your own big project

[high silo]

ik there is 1) software engineering/ development which is websites and backend and mobile apps and theres 2)cybersecurity 3) cloud 4) data science 5) ai/ml 6)Devops

my favourite is making websites,softwares, apps etc so software engineering

[main isle]

yeah than mabye check out the full-stack developer roadmap on roadmap.sh

[fringe sphinx]

My opinion: roadmap.sh is terrible and shouldn't be used for anything

[pastel aspen]

I disagree with it fundamentally every time I look at one of their roadmaps.

[queen crag]

Hi, how fast did it take for you guys to get a job

[peak halo]

spent four-ish years getting my CS degree. I started job hunting a few months before I graduated and got one three months after.

[high silo]

ik basic html and css from college sometime back but i found this codeacademy course on python

[high silo]

why not do se degree

[static granite]

i agree with road map but you need to be improve and make changes continuously that align to your goals and vision.
everyone have a different life and way of traveling in, so every roadmap need improvement acoding to your way of traveling in you life and for what ,
it all depend on you ,

So in short roadmap not like something good like white or something bad like black, it is gray thing that you need to be refine for your self acoding to you way of traveling in career.

[peak halo]

my goals were more closely aligned with CS than SE. CS is also more widely offered in the US.

[queen crag]

nicee good for you bro, personally im trying to learn all of this by myself idk how much it will take

[high silo]

ah what were your goal

[pastel aspen]

IMO they constantly suggest that new people learn eight or so obsolete frameworks.

Like, they think you should study Puppet still on the devops track.

[peak halo]

computational linguistics.

[peak halo]

all learning is ultimately self-learning, but the job market is very competitive even for degree-holders. People without degrees won't even be considered for most positions these days.

[queen crag]

yeah, all they care about is experience

[peak halo]

I think you missed what I'm saying
if you apply to a job without having already had a relevant job, or without a degree, they simply will not consider you, no matter how much knowledge you claim to have through self-study.

[queen crag]

ohh ok

well in that case idk😂

[static granite]

actually when you don't have a clear vision when i strongly recommend roadmap because it will give you way in darkness when you are improving yourself then you have enough knowledge to decide something byself

[high silo]

would you recomend me a cs degree or a se degree

[peak halo]

you're right that employers ultimately only care if you can do the job. but you need to be able to convince them that that's the case. if you're just some person who claims to have done some youtube courses, the employer is going to prefer to interview a degree holder, who had to prove to their professors that they learned something.

[pastel aspen]

I don't disagree, but their route is extremely time-consuming for that. It will have you learn/examine a bunch of things that are no longer relevant circa 2025 etc, at least IMO again.
I think Google's new "Learn Your Way" product would be better almost every time.

[static granite]

by rodmap is like will to do something that you do not understand initially very well

[queen crag]

yeah, now i know why ppl become electricians and plumbers

but yk what they say, hard but not impossible

[peak halo]

my sister just finished her plumbing apprenticeship
she shows up to jobs and they ask her where the plumber is, even after she fixes their stuff.

[static granite]

yes you got it your point i expect that your actual mean it is.😀

[queen crag]

damn, im also working blue collar now, i just hate the work conditions that's why i wanna switch

[high silo]

question why does everyone in computing do software programming never seen someone on discord do cybersecurity or data science or cloud computing especially or ai/ml and they all have cs degrees not se degrees

[peak halo]

I work in AI/ML

[high silo]

you have a bs in cs

ai/ml engineering means you need at least a masters in a related field

[static granite]

i didn't seen any definition like that about AI/ML😑 before

[peak halo]

almost all my coworkers have a masters or PhD. I was able to break in without one because I was very incredibly methodical in how I prepared as an undergrad.

and also got exceptionally lucky

[pastel aspen]

The Data Science program here at the local university is a hybrid B.S/Masters.

[high silo]

what else yall work as cuz ngl i think software engineering (full stack making webistes,backend and mobile apps isnt highest pay and very common) i need something else

[pastel aspen]

If you have any interest in "proofs", knowing a popular formal programming language just prints money forever.

[high silo]

i didnt get you

[pastel aspen]

e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agda_(programming_language)

Proof systems, formal verification, etc. This is what credit card companies like Visa and MasterCard write their core systems in. (Not Agda, just this class of stuff.)

[high silo]

wut

[static granite]

OH really actually am just self lerner even am not study at any college or university so i don't have much info about that and also about degrees

[pastel aspen]

Agda, Coq, Idris, SPARK, Zed, etc.

[high silo]

i dont understand you

[pastel aspen]

I don't have a college degree at all, and I've worked at a bunch of places people have heard of.

Never surrender, just burn as brightly as you can.

[static granite]

were is this!, i want to visit these places

[high silo]

i think i can land a software engineering job without going to uni i quit highschool

[pastel aspen]

VMware is probably the biggest one you've heard of on that list. They made me a Staff Engineer without a degree etc.

[high silo]

now i need to fix that mistake up

[pastel aspen]

There are some scenes you can't get into without at least a B.S. in a "STEM" field, but they aren't as common as people think.
Actually getting a security classification outweighs that instantly in a lot of places.

[high silo]

i have this

[static granite]

i am sorry but 😑 but i did not hear about that befor so it totally new to me

[pastel aspen]

A fun game is "Show me a whiteboard with a software problem you are struggling with", and then just think aloud while looking at it.

[high silo]

ah i just doxxed my name L

[pastel aspen]

Nice to meet you, I'm @wilson on GitHub so I self-doxx automatically haha
(Also I'm the only Human who has ever had this first/last name combo, so hiding is hard.)

[static granite]

if you don't have any degree so how you get into

[pastel aspen]

Just learn more stuff than the new-grads know and it's all good.

[main isle]

it's just a first direction

[high silo]

My og plan was to ask chatgpt whats everything you learn in a se degree bachelors in uni then buy a udemy course in each thing

[pastel aspen]

Not a terrible plan IMO, but I suggest Google Gemini instead, or if you can get into the waitlist, Google's new "Learn Your Way" product.
ChatGPT is weird at this particular thing last time I tried.

[high silo]

And doing 3hrs of Python a day with 3hrs javascript anday

[main isle]

why not just downloading the study plan of mit

[pastel aspen]

The important thing to understand IMO about JavaScript is that it does not contain any "good ideas" you should borrow without great care going forward.
It is super-pragmatic, but that's not the same thing.

[high silo]

Mit?

[main isle]

MIT

[pastel aspen]

Here's their course list: https://catalog.mit.edu/degree-charts/computer-science-engineering-course-6-3/

p.s. immediately study Measure Theory, don't wait for a Probability class.
We should be teaching Measure Theory before you are allowed to use an Array.

[main isle]

The university nobody knows

[main isle]

i see how high is the distance into the arrays second field

[high silo]

Ill try to get into a nigh school or home school or just do the exams to get into university

[pastel aspen]

The answer is that it's a use of the "count/cardinality" pluggable function for measurement, vs. the numbers between 0 and 1, which are a "length" measure, since it has infinite cardinality etc.

Probability is just a measure theory setup where the domain is just 0 through 1.

[main isle]

Ah 3+3=33

[pastel aspen]

Luckily hopefully in your career you won't run into any sets that aren't in a Sigma-algebra.

[main isle]

i just do complex numbers

[pastel aspen]

Yeah, those are nice and well-behaved.

[main isle]

a little bit dft

and bayes also sometimes come to my code

[high silo]

What are all the fields in computing

[main isle]

objects

[high silo]

Ai is trash at this question

[static granite]

it hard to understand for me what you are taking about that but hope so one day i will understand without any degree i will show to the world degrees is like you are take a rodmap that just set foundation in 2 to 4 year but in these year world moving so fast as you thing you follow last for year of roadmap and hard coded your mind on it that will make yourself average or even low then

[main isle]

everything is an object rule number one in js

[pastel aspen]

If you ever don't understand something, IMO, write it down in a note and re-visit it in a year etc.
If you have the determination, this is my favorite book on programming computers as an overall concept: https://webperso.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/book.html
Sadly hard to source in hardcopy now, but there are PDFs on the web etc, and they have a free version of the first draft on this page.
This book teaches every programming paradigm known in 2004 in a single language called Oz.

Nothing more-ambitious than this has been published in this field IMO.

[main isle]

sheesh man, that feels like you are a js basher

i feel the hate

[pastel aspen]

I'm not; I worked on the Node.js Agent team at New Relic etc.. I'm just saying that we have learned that a lot of JavaScript's decisions are extremely risky at scale.
It's not for casual inspiration.
You need to really understand what the Treaty of Orlando was saying.

[main isle]

It's risky to buy SAP man

[pastel aspen]

Agreed. I would fire anyone who worked for me that seriously proposed it.
I hope you never have to learn in practice why I disagree with what you just said below this.

[main isle]

but not to use TS

[glacial nova]

I know the python fundamentals how to get started with DSA?

[high silo]

im starting to understand what data science is

a tech company has its data and they ask the data scientist how to do this for their company and they give the data scientist their data and he uses sql and python to collect the data and uses sql to make models to get more business plans example: make a offer for people who made new accounts to get 50% off on their subscriptions

i had no idea what data science was till today when i did some research all i knew was its a bunch of mathematics and science and tech

[peak halo]

Data science could be that. The database isn't guaranteed to be SQL.

[high silo]

yeah

could be anything they used before to store user data

[fringe sphinx]

First, give us some context: why do you want to learn DSA? are you in Uni? Have you built any projects in python or are jumping straight into DSA?

[high silo]

does sql use ai to pull data?

[fringe sphinx]

No

[high silo]

alr alr

[fringe sphinx]

AI and SQL are totally different things. Like Tacos and Hot Dogs

[high silo]

dead server

[pastel aspen]

Not zooming into a bad screenshot etc sorry. Hope your day is going well!

[high silo]

Huh

[high silo]

anyone know how to break into data science job market by university

i still didnt choose what i want to do in university but i reseached about technology and head that data scientists make the most dough and i love to get paid alot

[pastel aspen]

Be the highest achiever in your program

[high silo]

in universtiy?

[pastel aspen]

Yeah, aim for valedictorian or equivalent. Everybody is studying data science right now, you have to blaze bright to get noticed.

If you want to get paid though, fintech and trusted computing specialities pay way more than data science in general.

[high silo]

wym trusted computing specialities

[pastel aspen]

I talked about this above, but learn Coq, Agda, Idris, SPARK, Zed, something like that.

[high silo]

all i know about data science is you do computer science after hs then do data analyst role then become a data scientist then ai/ml engineer

[pastel aspen]

You’ll want to get good at looking up things you haven’t heard of before. 🙂

[high silo]

trusted computing specialities?

[pastel aspen]

Google it

[high silo]

so data science is dead now

[pastel aspen]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/leading-computer-science-professor-says-095502798.html
For newcomers who don’t plan to excel? Yes.

[high silo]

it says cybersecurity

[pastel aspen]

Add “formal” to the search terms

[high silo]

and idk about cybersecurity because quantum computing

[pastel aspen]

Trusted computing isn’t cybersecurity

It’s software that gets “proven correct” like a math theorem.

[high silo]

1. Hardware-Based Specialties 2. Cryptography and Secure protocol 3. Trusted Operating Systems and Virtualization 4. Software and Application Trust 5. Compliance, Standards, and Certifications

[high silo]

i think your talking about fintech bank software engineering and blockchain engineering i did heard that those get paid alot in dubai