career-advice

[violet venture]

Dumb question, but are remote jobs without English-speaking fluency a good idea? I can't afford to get a tutor for learning that.

[near ocean]

It depends, if youre not part of the anglosphere then theres no point in learning english i guess
If you are part of it then yes you should learn english to a good degree

[vast shoal]

In software I think it's gonna be rough without some level of English fluency, even if you're not working in the anglosphere, since most tech documentation will be in English mainly

[violet venture]

No, I have no problem with written English. Just with spoken English.

[near ocean]

Not as big of a problem then, but it might hurt you during interviews

Speaking gets so much better so fast, you need a lot of immersion though
Gaming, movies, talking on voice comms, etc

[rocky fulcrum]

which one was it

[violet venture]

I do watch YouTube a lot, especially Party Crashers. But I found YouTube voice quality is too crisp. I can understand YouTube voice but not voice comms.

[vast shoal]

Maybe try watching movies in English. Speech tends to be less easily distinguishable, even for natives sometimes.

[violet venture]

Does dubbed anime count?

[vast shoal]

No. I mean like feature films.

Dubbed cartoons are very crisp.

[worldly pasture]

Hello

[runic trench]

when i am a begginer how i can do to upgrade advanced 😄

[trim crypt]

practice

[near ocean]

This goes a bit offtopic but gaming is what helped me the most
Having to talk to people in english, not sitting and reading by myself
Lost most of my accent and became more fluent

[runic trench]

=))) can you give me some skills

[near ocean]

No, ask in #python-discussion

[trim crypt]

I wish I could give you skills as much as I could ask for others to give me theirs. Try and build projects without any help. Once you figured out that there are parts that you can't, you will naturally build new skills to build a project from A to Z.

[hallow folio]

hello

does any one have cronjob related experience ??
need one help
Actually we have one scenirio
that we deployed a container like AI-agent which is in python code.....

it is working if i run directly ....but not getting worked when i run via cronjob
could you please help ?

[near ocean]

Not here, ask in #python-discussion

[hallow folio]

Thanks

[runic mango]

Hi Everyone
I'm new here
Just started learning python and i found this community..

[trim crypt]

Welcome! We normally have general Python discussions in #python-discussion

If you have any career-specific questions, feel free to ask it here.

[random nebula]

Hey guys

[eternal gull]

Hi everyone

[viral sluice]

hi

[bronze bronze]

Job Boards:
I have been defaulting to Indeed and LinkedIn - just went and signed up for GlassDoor too.
Feel like a lot of scam recruiters are on Dice so I dont really go there anymore.
Ive had SOME interviews but its been a rough market. Wondering what career sites worked best for others.
What has worked best for those recently finding remote work?

[near ocean]

indeed and linkedin got me both my jobs so far

[scarlet elk]

None so far tbh. Best bet maybe network. But not so much as transactional, more so to build people around you that make you and them better 👍

[white relic]

Are you only looking at fully remote jobs?
That will limit your options, a lot.

[bronze bronze]

Ideally yes bit have spoke with some orgs that have a 4x annually for QP on site.
Hybrid is OK too but as I am sure with most - remote is the preference.

[white relic]

have a 4x annually for QP on site
I don't know what that means.

[bronze bronze]

Let me edit that

QP - Quarterly Planning. Come on site at the end of each quarter.

1-2 days of big planning stuff. Roadmapping.

[white relic]

Many people want fully remote jobs, but hybrid is more common, afaik.
especially for less experienced roles

[placid geyser]

its also common for hybrid to drift into remote as you are there for a while. though no garuantee and of course company dependent

53333yesrtjdxfr txyk ii.
lol cat on kb

[bronze bronze]

Yep - all valid points. But to the crux of my ask: The big job boards that are stil fruitful are LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor and Reaching out to my professional connects? Not missing any?
The one that has been reallllly annoying is Lensa. Just a pay wall.

[solid patio]

can anyone help me w my discord bot code?

or i can hire someone

[placid geyser]

we dont offer recruitment here but you can try #1035199133436354600

[placid geyser]

never heard of Lensa tbh but it sounds bad. Those options you listed otherwise all sound good. I would also look into local meetups on places like facebook and LI to network with people

[white relic]

it varies some by location, and industry sector, but those are definitely some of the big ones

[bronze bronze]

Ok - thank you. It has been tough sledding so I assume its just the market and I am on the right path. Ill hammer out a few more certs in the meantime.

[placid geyser]

networking will do really well unless you are in a rather sparse area.

[next plover]

its not who you know, its who knows you
is the mindset i took

[placid geyser]

that is a very good way of looking at it
because if they don't know you it won't help you much even if you know them

[next plover]

esp in any dev or security jobs, you have thousands of people with identical degrees and 0 experience, its statistically improbable you will be hired, i literally DMed a CISO of the company i was interning at on linked in to meet with them

and yes dming a fortune 500 ciso on linkedin is insane

[bronze bronze]

Ooof - seen. This is career discussion and not therapy but I def have a story.
Lead engineer was offered and I was looking for more mid level DevOps.

Really wanted to go back to being an Individual Contributor but people see solutions architect AWS on your resume and ignore some of the glaring gaps in experience. A common and sad tale of someone promoted to their level of mediocrity.

But there in lies the a problem: Brutally honest with yourself doesnt get you an offer does it?

[placid geyser]

there are certain things I used to do long ago that I straight up remove from my resume because it tends to muddy the waters way too much. not to mention far too many cold calls for complete junk I havent done in 20 years lol

[bronze bronze]

I dont know if I ever plan to pick up the phone for a recruiter not attached to a firm again. "Can you do the kuberitties?"

Yeah. K8s I know - cant wait for K9s to roll out.

[placid geyser]

lol Openstack was one of the ones for me but at least do some of that again now even though I hadnt in ages. But Citrix/NetApp were the real problems

[still condor]

I had employers contact me for positions working inside of some low-code system, because one of my work projects involved developing a low-code system (and presumably it triggered the buzzword detector thing)

[bronze bronze]

Ah - the ATS - Applicant tracking system

[placid geyser]

yea that happens way too much since so many companies dont actually look for people themselves but rely on basically a bot scraper to do it

yup SELECT * FROM Internet WHERE WorkHistory LIKE "%buzzwords%"

and it doesnt help that the buzzword list probably wasnt written by anyone having half a clue what the actual job is supposed to be

[bronze bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/haxor-gif-9997760

I believe we have discovered "vibe coding" origin story.

[placid geyser]

wow, speak of the devil. literally just got a call from a recruiter about a hypervisor support engineer position... oof

[bronze bronze]

Ask if the system has any leaky containers

[placid geyser]

Support and administer virtual infrastructure across VMware, Hyper-V, OLVM, and KVM
Manage virtual machine provisioning, patching, migrations, and disaster recovery```
wow.. vmware, hyper-v and kvm..
![doubt](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1002057894759518269.webp?size=128 "doubt")

[bronze bronze]

How have we not automated recruiting yet.

[placid geyser]

we have, its just complete shit

[lilac sundial]

Where do i post resumes so ppl can checj

[near ocean]

here, screenshot

[lilac sundial]

Mister old man

[white relic]

Respectable, no glaring issues to me.
The biggest question is why are you looking for a new job only 2 months in?

[lilac sundial]

Ym into my internship?

[white relic]

oh, it's an internship, lol

my mistake, I somehow skimmed that word

[lilac sundial]

Should i leave it as full stack dev intern or should i change it

[white relic]

eh, that's probably fine

[lilac sundial]

Also should i bold out any of the bits in projects section

Im a fresh grad btw as of last week

[white relic]

since you know the internship is short term though maybe put "- {end of internship period}" instead of "- Present"

[lilac sundial]

Mmhm

[white relic]

are you looking for work within India or outside?
I notice you mostly say "{city}, India" but in one place you have "Bangalore, Karnataka" instead

[lilac sundial]

Also i kinda learnt zod suspense etc on the fly so am i screwed if im not a 10/10 in those departments

[lilac sundial]

Dont get u exactly

Uhh looking in india

[white relic]

no junior level person is a 10/10 in anything, as long as you can show an ability to learn, and aren't flat lying, you should be fine

[lilac sundial]

If i have demonstrated the ability to use said things in my projects is that good enough

Most of my knowledge on those things comes from watching tutorials

[white relic]

it's just a little inconsistency, at least, I'm not from India, but you should probably be consistent about naming cities as "{city}, {state}" or "{city}, India" not do both

[icy pagoda]

how does CS w/ cognitive systems work btw; is it more of machine intelligence/ML focused?

[lilac sundial]

Lol its the dumbass site i made it on ill def change

[white relic]

unless there is some cultural nuance I'm not aware of

[lilac sundial]

Nah u diggin too deep aint nothin like that. Unless there really is lol

[icy pagoda]

oh mb, your resume looks fine i was just interested

[lilac sundial]

Kinda theres some stuff about ai/exp systems nlp etc and Ofc u have the python course w data analysis this and that

[icy pagoda]

makes sense

[white relic]

that's pretty much what I would expect from a recent graduate, tbh.
there aren't like... formal certificates for most of these things, not that anybody cares about, anyway.

[lilac sundial]

Oh yeah abt certs should i add em
Like make a whole new page for my resume and just blast like the 30 or so ive did

[white relic]

but, it bears mentioning that things in India may be different than the US. Indian job seekers tell me that university pedigree matters a lot there and maybe employers care more about certs, too, I'm not sure.

[icy pagoda]

the only reason you'd judge someone w/ a cert is if you've seen people w/ the cert performing noticably better for you or it's a specialized segment you're targetting like cloud deployment on a specific platform

[lilac sundial]

Yeah definetly but even from my college a dude got the equivalent of a 90k usd job here which is like what 1.2 million rupees

Granted he has 200 repos and like 3k stars on his github but thats besides the main point

[icy pagoda]

both of which scenarios are kinda rare

[lilac sundial]

From what i heard certs help if ur college syllabus, quality if education is poor or crappy also reaffirms how u learnt stuff to the recruiters lookin at ya cv

[white relic]

yeah I'm thinking like cloud platform certs would be situationally useful, and I think they're more of a thing in cybersec too, but not for general dev

[next plover]

home labs and certs yeah

my blog and experience with home labs was more valuable than my sec+ in my situation (in cybersecurity)

[desert pewter]

@hollow tapir ur in the .exe server right ?

[quasi needle]

What's the .exe server?

[desert pewter]

dw about it broo

[quasi needle]

Eh ok then I guess

[cyan citrus]

Is anyone able to help me with my programming project I’m doing for myself. I want to create a Google extension that scrapes clothing websites for all their clothing dimensions and sizes. Dm me please if you are interested. Thank you!

[autumn flax]

Looking for Help with AI-Integrated Python Code (Volunteer Support)

Hi everyone! I'm currently working on a project that involves AI integration using Python, and I've encountered some issues that I could use help with. I'm looking for someone experienced in Python and AI who might be willing to take a look and offer some guidance—voluntarily.

If you’re interested in contributing or know someone who might be, please feel free to reach out. Any support would be greatly appreciated!

Also, if you know any communities or platforms where I can post this request, I’d love your recommendations.

Thank you in advance!

[fast fossil]

May I know why you decided to ask that in this channel exactly? (I don't need an apology, I'm simply curious how you came to that decision)
If you want help, you can ask for it in #python-discussion or #1035199133436354600, make sure to read #❓｜how-to-get-help to get started though.
That aside, regarding scraping, how will you ensure that you are not breaking the ToS of the sites you will be scraping? (Please read rule 5 (see #rules) for why that might be of importance when asking for help in this server (please don't just respond with something like "it's not illegal" to this, it has nothing to do with legality))

[peak halo]

if you have a specific question, you can ask in #1035199133436354600. This server isn't a place to solicit ongoing support.

[fast fossil]

Same question to you, what made you decide to ask for help in this channel in particular? (Again, I don't need an apology, I'm just curious)
If you want help, we have help channels for that: #python-discussion and #1035199133436354600, also read #❓｜how-to-get-help to make sure you're providing all the necessary information to those who would want to help you.

[autumn flax]

Thank for your help.

[autumn flax]

i just searched python and this was the first channel to pop up.

[peak halo]

be sure to read the description of each channel before using it for the first time, so you know you're using the right one.

[strange socket]

How much statistics do I need for CS? Just basic inferential, or should I go up to shit that needs calculus

Thanks to whoever deleted that

[tender thicket]

Poorly educated opinion:
I would say that depends on whether by CS you actually mean computer science or development. Stuff like robotics or anything involving circuity you're gonna want what you can get, whereas for regular development I'd say understanding what a derivative/integral are is probably enough

[fickle acorn]

i want a career in python coding language but i dont know where to start, i do like to use html and css. I do not know any other codding language. i like to play video games and am making a game through GoDot but i would like to use python, how ever i would love to learn to make computer programs for daily use

[strange socket]

Because I have Integral Calc knowledge, and I'm not sure if I should go with Statistical Methods 1 and 2, or Inferential Statistics

Nvm figured it out. I'll do Descriptive and Elementary Inferential Statistics, and then Statistical Methods 2 because I can skip 1 by taking Inferential Stats

[amber lintel]

😑

[strange socket]

@tender thicket Thanks for being my rubber duck

[lean vine]

just watch bro code

[fickle acorn]

whats that on

[next plover]

!resources its a youtube channel, but the embed below is a good start for resources on learning python

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fierce ledge]

Hi, I'm Nikky a passionate student, budding entrepreneur, and creative spirit based in South Africa. From launching my own businesses to exploring the world of art, I'm on a journey to break free from the ordinary and build a life filled with purpose and freedom. Whether it's running an online store or creating unique artwork, I bring dedication, creativity, and a drive to succeed in everything I do.

[long solar]

Is the us job market cooked

[long solar]

Lets make a startup 📈

[fierce ledge]

Send me dms

[merry wind]

Hi, I'm Khireddine
I'm an Agentic AI Developer, combining my experience in software engineering and chemistry to build innovative agentic solutions. Passionate about creating systems that push the boundaries of what's possible

[scarlet elk]

Great question. Meh the market stalls are still cooking. Let’s go check the marketing booths

Can I run a successful lemonade stand startup

With robots that serve lemonade 🤯

[remote moat]

welcome!

[robust island]

I'll be going to my first in-person interview for a software engineering internship next week. Do you guys have any tips? What do interviewers look for most?

[dark arrow]

ime the projects listed on my resume, tools/languages on my resume and how i used them in said projects
then there's a DSA question, and some theory knowledge of OSes, networks, DBs...

[buoyant seal]

well, 1 week is not a lot. So i will just tell

1. Voice thoughts aloud, show thinking, instead of working silently
2. clarify requirements. Asking question is all right and positive sign

Otherwise i love people with love to unit testing 😊 as people with proper unit testing skills do have a chance to write maintainable code in ANY type of language
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
Consider investing into this skill

[robust island]

All my time writing oracles for junit tests in class might pay off

I'm still pretty weak in DSA, I've just done some basics w/ linked lists, queues, stacks, and deques

[chilly radish]

https://www.amazon.in/Hands-Machine-Learning-Scikit-Learn-TensorFlow/dp/9355421982?ref_=ast_author_dp&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.HYk1fun9wcouHZdScULxJzh0WojEH-XrpEjazFTgWaq4-HLVvvXr8jbRjfONP5ssMRirNsGrGhai4nFT-MHvOhEhj2Xe7R-9MV_d8bv_PlmJOvkSW1NILCnkymoPwDuVg3iOMHordywmxYjrApycAUlj1elFXA4EeUwk2hGCf2QG2yVzAjuB_N3GrzlPj36jidO-9VWjKZEbDgjhco59on8Jw5ifs19eZnlGuthYX_4.MbCv7zGtkDG4oKLcSGf4wPSl33SXKyxTxaprrX_aFQ4&dib_tag=AUTHOR

Is this book enough if i want to learn ai and machine learning?

[lethal marsh]

Hello good day.
Anyone around Reading UK or Perth Scotland thanks

[final ravine]

What for? You should ask your question not just ask if anyone is available. Also this channel isn't a jobs board

[pastel canyon]

I am full stack developer and I am focusing on monitor and ecommerce site development

[hearty totem]

Slightly outdated but it is a pretty good book on the basics. I did run a course teaching ML for non-CS grads using it as the main textbook. It is focused on practical skills for medium size datasets - i.e. what you'd find in most of science. It is not a book to become an ML person

[chilly radish]

So in conclusion,is it recommended for me to buy this book in 2025 if i want to learn ml etc

[barren comet]

is it even worth to learn programming now with all the ai?

[vast shoal]

Yes. AI can't replace human developers.

And there's no strong reason to believe that'll change in the near future.

[barren comet]

Maybe not replace (or yet) but it can definitely boost the productivity by a lot

it seems like it's going to get better with time for now so im thinking if it will eliminate a lot of jobs in the near future

[near ocean]

It will eliminate some jobs, the very bottom % of software devs might be replaced, the solution is not to be a terrible developer

[barren comet]

but it's eventually going to replace the mid ones too

probably i mean, if we assume it keeps imrpvoing which it was doing pretty well in the last 2 years

[near ocean]

So dont be mid

[vast shoal]

So far the productivity boost is quite limited. It's a matter of decreasing the time it takes to write simple isolated functions and repetitive boilerplate code. The high-level tasks of planning, design and collaboration that are completely integral and critical to the profession cannot be done by AI. There's nothing indicating this will be any different down the line. I don't think current AI are replacing any developers at all, and I doubt they will in the near future either. I think a completely different type of AI from what we have right now is necessary for that to happen.

[soft rose]

I'm new to Python and i already knew the basics. really excited and looking forward to improve and build cool stuff🫀

What beginner projects do you guys suggest I make for my level? Also im gladly to take some advices

Thanks a lot, I’m happy to be here🌸

[vast shoal]

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[tidal mesa]

snake or tic tac toe

ins't there like a general chat ?

[still condor]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[open ivy]

I second this. For my physics simulation portfolio project, AI is basically a more convenient version of readthedocs. It cannot do any of the planning and code organization. Let alone know why I am motivated to change the core algorithm.

Have you ever met anyone who was knowledgeable and a good spokesperson but who could never be a lead engineer or designer? ChatGPT is like an extreme version of that.

[barren comet]

I don't think you got the point

by the time a current junior becomes a senior (6 or more years) the ai could already be as good as a senior

thats what i meant, not that AI will replace only less skilled developers

[near ocean]

Thats not how that works
AI will replace through competency first whether youre a "senior" or a junior

But anyway this channel isnt here to convince people AI wont take their jobs in the future and that theyre safe to study CS
Thats up to you

[open ivy]

No it won't. All this AI runs in classical computers. It lacks the capability of quantum computers no matter how smart it's programmers are or how much data it has. Actual practical quantum computers are far, far away.

[vast shoal]

AI is not even remotely at the level of even the most entry-level human developer. They lack fundamental capabilities required to do the job.

[near ocean]

Maybe we should have a pin that reads "No, AI won't replace us, stop asking about it"

[vast shoal]

It's not a difference of degree, but one of kind.

[open ivy]

The "kinds" being BPP vs BQP.

[barren comet]

I appreciate your insight but firstly, no, you can not be certain whether will this happen, predicting the future is the hardest thing to do and it's a valid question i asked, i don't see why you come at me so hostile

[near ocean]

There are devs around that get paid and all they do is change config values or do simple css and stuff like that, they can be replaced with AI and they kinda deserve it

[fickle atlas]

whatsup guys

[barren comet]

3 years ago, no one suspected AI would even be able to program well yet is does it pretty good judging how long it's mainstream for

[vast shoal]

We're not saying it can't happen, we're saying there's no credible evidence to suggest that it will happen. It's like saying we can't know a meteor won't destroy New York next week. Yes, it could happen. But we have no good reason to believe it will.

[fickle atlas]

how do u do networking in cs

[barren comet]

It's a valid concern to be questioning whether it will keep improving or not. And no, I'm not saying AI will write all the software, but where is shines is automation and enhancing productivity by a lot.

[barren comet]

Well AI can code you a lot of the frontend stuff you would ever need

It's great for productivity in frontend which is often a lot of boilerplate

[open ivy]

If you think the world is unfair (which it is), are you looking for hidden gems? I found so many interesting social outcasts who are rejected by society and are harmless, nice people.

[vast shoal]

No, not really. An agentic AI can code up a simple tool with a simple specification. They break down quickly once requirements start becoming more complex, and once the context grows beyond a certain size.

[white relic]

Regulars can be kind of prickly about this topic because it comes up very frequently.
It's mostly inspired by doomer nonsense and wild speculation about the "rate" of AI growth according to people's impressions of how smart it is.
It becomes tiresome to combat groundless fears over and over.

[vast shoal]

Which it inevitably does in a commercial project.

[fickle atlas]

dosnt ai jus write code already posted on internet so it kinda finds it

[barren comet]

Saying AI is smart (or near genius level, like that open ai guys tweets everytime a new model comes out) is pretty wild i agree but we shouldn't turn a blind eye into the potential of this kind of software

[vast shoal]

No, it's capable of generating original code.

[fickle atlas]

oh i read misinformation then

[barren comet]

that's what is was trained on, but by definition, models are supposed to work on unseen data otherwise they'd be useless

[vast shoal]

I'm not turning a blind eye to it, I'm using it every day, that's why I know well what its limitations are

[cosmic iris]

Who knows what docker is 🗿

[open ivy]

Setting aside projections into the future, I don't think the current job squeeze is due to AI.

[white relic]

That, too.

[barren comet]

Yes, it has limitations. They could change a lot tho, and that's where it starts being a real big threat

[cosmic iris]

DeepSeek is a threat?

[vast shoal]

Yes, but again, we have no good reason to believe that's going to happen. Just because we got LLMs in the last few years doesn't mean we're gonna have AGI in the next few ones.

[still condor]

Yes, it would be a real threat if ChatGPT set out on a quest to make as many paperclips as possible. But now it is not on that quest

[fickle atlas]

so ai for now is just a tool that helps but why does big tech companies say it will replace most software engineers in the future

[barren comet]

I meant a threat for junior programmers to clarify lol

[vast shoal]

An LLM and an AGI are very different concepts.

[white relic]

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
You have an impression of what AI can do, and you project that into the future without any guardrails on what you can reasonably expect.

[cosmic iris]

That’s true. I mean DeepSeek has fallen behind and ChatGPT still has room for a lot of improvements

[near ocean]

Theres not really much you can do about AI, are you going to study/learn something else in that case?
I dont understand the premise of the question

[cosmic iris]

There is no need for AGI at this moment in time when LLMS are still a new topic.

[vast shoal]

Yes, but again, an LLM can't fill the role of any human developer because it lacks fundamental capabilities required to do the job.

[barren comet]

Without any reason? I noted at the start of the discussion assuming it keeps improving (it's been doing that for the last 3 years) it definitely can become a better tool that it is

[cosmic iris]

They also have agents or clients which are ai that is dedicated to do only a specific thing related to jobs.

[barren comet]

Like what exactly?

[near ocean]

Convincing product we dont need x useless feature 💀

[cosmic iris]

Most definitely. At this pace in 3 years it does seem like it can go quite far as technology tends to improve exponentially.

[barren comet]

Isn't that marketing lol

[nimble bison]

Anyone of u 3 can help me to make bot i have already code

[near ocean]

Nope, thats on engineers

[white relic]

you're still doing the thing where you imagine that "progress of AI" can be plotted on some kind of graph where extending the line into the future somehow removes what are currently fundamental limitations on current understanding.

[vast shoal]

Large and multidimensional context comprehension. Collaboration and design. Long term communication across many different channels.

[open ivy]

I think there are problems with pool size. Let's say companies interview the top 10% of applicants. And a given applicant is top 25% for the given role.

If there are 10 applicants for one position, they have an OK chance of being the top. But if there are 100 applicants for 10 positions the odds drop a lot even through the ratio is the same. Conversely, a top 1% applicant benefits from a larger pool (more interviews).

Larger pool size increases inequality between the haves and have nots. For the average person it makes it harder.

[cosmic iris]

Actually it can.

[vast shoal]

And real-time learning.

[open ivy]

Networking in smaller communities decrease pool size. There are other ways as well.

[white relic]

nice, let's go back into the 1950s and apply that logic to the AI of the time, how did that work?

[cosmic iris]

linear regression

[barren comet]

I'm sorry, but what do you expect me to say now if i said at the beginning, assuming it doesn't stall? Yes, this is a very possible outcome, it could keep improving for a long time. It could also not improve by much. And no, you don't seem to get what im thinking. I'm aware that training AI that is expert level in anything is difficult but a lot of the written code doesn't need to be poetic, just good enough

[nimble bison]

Anyone of u 3 can help me to make bot i have already code

[near ocean]

No, ask in #python-discussion

[cosmic iris]

Yea and that’s true and to back your point up #career-advice message

[open ivy]

What makes generative AI successful is the gigantic amount of training data which was extremely labor intensive. This cannot easily scale further.

[cosmic iris]

Mhm. Unless it’s stolen 💀

[open ivy]

Been there done that and they are running out of things to steal.

[barren comet]

in 1950 AI could not do anything more than predict simple pattenrs in a specific domain. Just in 2010s, AI beat the human champion in GO. 10 years ago, you would hear people saying that AI can't reproduce art. Well, it does that now. Is it master level? No, but good enough for some employers to lay off their designers.

[waxen shore]

Just wondering:

Since AI can basically do Python better than most everyone.....what are you guys doing for a career with Python?

I'm seeing layoffs/RIFs by the thousands and one day AI will be able to do just about everything IT related.

[cosmic iris]

Yea DeepSeek got accused.

[barren comet]

We can't be certain what are it's limitations for now

[white relic]

all I can say is, you're repeating talking points that are brought up in this channel often, and not by people who are well-informed or actually use AIs in their jobs.
We can't be certain of anything in the future, but that doesn't mean we should be afraid of science fiction.

[vast shoal]

We're discussing this very topic, you can scroll up a bit and read back the conversation.

[near ocean]

Is it actually good enough to be a designer or are employers finding an easy way to "cut operational costs"

[wraith harbor]

i dont think LLMs have really shown much progress in terms of solving more difficult programming challenges. its just gotten better at writing boilerplate or standalone functions, but the capabilities havent really moved beyond that, at least in my workflow

[cosmic iris]

There has been a large large improvement in problem solving and coding however.

[cosmic iris]

Especially with groc ai and DeepSeek.

[waxen shore]

Does anyone here use Python and work with AI/ML/LLMs?

[barren comet]

You assumed i don't use AI, which is wrong. No one knows what the future holds yet you are saying i shouldn't voice my opinion because you think im less skilled than people here

[near ocean]

Not only is AI not replacing anyone worth their salary currently, it shouldnt have replaced anyone at all, people are succumbing to cheap marketing tricks about AI and also finding excuses to fire real fleshy people because we "cost too much"

[wraith harbor]

idk. at the end of the day its just a circular conversation that will never get anywhere

[barren comet]

I do, i am studying machine learning at uni 3rd year

[vast shoal]

Nobody's telling you not to voice your opinion. But your opinions will be scrutinized and responded to.

[white relic]

I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion. I'm saying it's an uninformed opinion, and people who are informed, and not being paid to sell AIs, aren't peddling the idea that AI is replacing developers.

[cosmic iris]

I bet you use many AI. ai of all kinds. Have you used the new Gemini.

[waxen shore]

Sorry, I should have been more clear:

Does anyone here use Python and work with AI/ML/LLMs that is employed?

[cosmic iris]

Me Oo me.

[cosmic iris]

No? And that’s not very nice 💀

[vast shoal]

I am employed, I do use Python (though not as the main language currently) and I use LLMs as part of my daily workflow.

[open ivy]

I generally agree. I am more a robotics fan. In the biology lab, you have people spending most of their time following step by step protocols as precisely as possible. Please replace that with machines not actual complex creative though.

[barren comet]

No, i didn't say AI is replacing developers now. I asked if you think it could in the future boost the productivity enough that less developers are needed

[waxen shore]

But do you work ON AI/ML/LLM and not just use it?

[vast shoal]

No.

[barren comet]

Most developers use AI now which is not shocking at all

[cosmic iris]

Actually I think more developers would be needed.

[near ocean]

My gf would hate to have that replaced by bots, its the one thing she likes doing in labs 😭😭

[waxen shore]

Not sure why that was not nice.

[barren comet]

How come if the job is less time consuming?

[vast shoal]

Yes, developers will adopt whatever productivity enhancing tools are available, and LLMs are useful.

[near ocean]

The rest of it is report writing and waiting

[wraith harbor]

my intuition tells me a lot of developers misuse LLMs and thats gonna lead to higher maintenance costs down the line

[vast shoal]

They just aren't autonomous agents, they're just tools.

[cosmic iris]

If the job is less time consulting then more wouldn’t mind doing it.

[barren comet]

Then the salary would go down

[open ivy]

you don't need AI to reduce the number of developers. Tools and libraries make it easier than ever to set up an app.

[cosmic iris]

That’s true that’s true. But there productivity would go up rapidly.

[vast shoal]

The productivity boost is not significant enough to affect employment.

[waxen shore]

Well maybe you know anyways:

I'm learning Python right now via Automate the Boriing Stuff 3rd edition....if I want to learn how to use Python for AI/ML/LLMs, what SHOULD I do next?

[barren comet]

The entry level for writing an app which you can deploy is drastically lower than it was just 3 years ago

[cosmic iris]

So I guess it equals out eventually.

[vast shoal]

!res Look for resources related to data science and machine learning on the page linked below.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[cosmic iris]

Are you saying effect employment negatively or positively

[near ocean]

Not an app of meaningful complexity

[wraith harbor]

i dont think theres ever been much money in developing react to do list apps

[digital fjord]

is it? Use squarespace -> use squarespace, all's the same. IG you can use AI to fill out the website a bit better.

[waxen shore]

Thank you

[barren comet]

Most software can be broken down into components anyway. I don't think it's that bad as you're saying

[vast shoal]

The idea is that if productivity is enhanced sufficiently, you'd need fewer developers to do the same job. But the productivity enhancement is fairly negligible, so it doesn't make a noticeable difference.

[barren comet]

OpenAI bought windsurf to gather more coding data and improve their models

[near ocean]

Have you worked on production code? Its not as clean as react tutorials might lead you to believe

[cosmic iris]

There are also agents like replit AI agent which are built for software and web developers. It helps with productivity by a ton.

[cosmic iris]

Ah that makes sense.

[open ivy]

I am talking about step by step protocol following. There is so much more to biology than this! There is data analysis, protocol design, paper reading and writing, whiteboarding etc. If we had robots these tasks would become the main tasks.

[vast shoal]

In order to get useful output from an LLM, you need to break the task down into an extremely limited context, so the time saved ends up being small.

[barren comet]

I'm sorry but honestly, how can you even assume i live in a detached world or even use react, if you have no legit arguments just keep that to yourself

[near ocean]

🤨

[barren comet]

You keep saying stuff about me that you don't even know and i don't even see the point

[wraith harbor]

what kind of projects have you worked on that you think LLMs are really good at doing, to the point that it would lead to reduction in employment?

[cosmic iris]

What is your argument if any?

[near ocean]

The argument is "reality isnt as ideal as you think AI samples make it"
As if human programmers cant build simple components

[cosmic iris]

AI is such a big topic. There are many areas within it.

[barren comet]

As i was saying, yes it does improve productivity just by the sheer amount of boilerplate it can produce, it's a question whether and how much it will improve in other coding tasks

[vast shoal]

Boilerplate reduction can also be achieved in other ways, like better API design.

[cosmic iris]

That’s true. And I would think a vast amount.

[near ocean]

Or scaffolding tools that arent AI

[vast shoal]

So you basically get benefit from LLMs in those gaps where you end up having to write repetitive and predictable code.

[barren comet]

I'm not saying AI will take all the developer roles, i don't know, but saying AI has no potential to do just exactly that is wrong

[cosmic iris]

YED that’s actually facts.

[barren comet]

There will be a lot of stuff you will have to end up writing yourself but instead of having, let's say, 10 engineers, you could have few less

And if the tools keep improving, the salary will go down as the programming work is not valuable as it was

[vast shoal]

It's just that any one engineer has tons of duties, and only a tiny percentage of those can be done by an LLM. So you can't fire a single one.

[barren comet]

Im not tryna spread doom tho, we don't know how much they will improve

[barren comet]

let's ignore the emails, which AI responds great to btw, but if software engineers dont need to write code, why would you even need to be one to create a product?

[cosmic iris]

Ok I understand. So if I’m correct in thinking that your saying your not saying that AI would take over many developer roles because you and we don’t really know. But it dose potentially have the potential to do so if the production rate increases exponentially like it is so far.

It’s still good to learn how to code. Extremely important.

[open ivy]

I still think pool size is really messing up the job market.

The top 1% of employees and employers get flooded with jobs and applicants.

The average person and company really struggles.

[barren comet]

Yes. That's pretty much what im saying. If it improves by a good amount, it will be "good enough" for all the employers to just use AI instead of real humans which need sick days, sleep and bigger pay than the chatbot token pay.

A lot of people also have the notion like you need to be highly skilled to write code, when in reality, it's mostly patterns, especially when it comes to frontend

[cosmic iris]

That’s so valid bro. I actually agree with you on that one.

[near ocean]

Eventually, probably not in the next 10-15 years

[wraith harbor]

i guess you either have to go above and beyond in your education and try to stay ahead of AI, or just give up on coding entirely

[open ivy]

A similar effect happens with the lonliness epidemic.

Many people of all ages are lonely. So where are all the people trying to be your friend? You see, most of them are locked into parasocial relationships and spending a lot of time consuming social media and survign the web. But then they don't have time for us?

[barren comet]

Maybe never, Maybe sooner. I don't know. But it has the potential and it's hard to predict the future

[cosmic iris]

Yes. And as somoune else pointed out because The data sets and training models are so large most of the code ends up looking the same and can become very generic.

[cosmic iris]

That’s what they said 3 years ago.

[barren comet]

Yeah. It's always been MVP for those companies anyway, which aligns with their work ethic

[barren comet]

People said AI can never replace artists, but it actually did make a lot of them obsolete.

It's disgusting how many tv commercials are AI generated (atleast here in poland). it's bad to even look at, but guess what, it's good enough and it costs a penny

[vast shoal]

We've talked about how LLMs can only write code in very limited contexts, and engineers need to write code in a lot of more complex contexts as well. But engineers also need to do stuff like configure CI pipelines, set up test environments, resolve bugs by correlating logs, code from different environments and different commit hashes, parse vague descriptions from testers employed in other organizations, figure out ways to improve social workflows, train other employees, sync with other developers in various situations (meetings, in the break room, during lunch, at the desk, etc.), run and evaluate performance tests, supervise UX evaluations, parse vague requirements and translate those into specific logic that actually solves the problem the customer is interested in. So yeah, engineers do quite a lot that's not writing code.

[wraith harbor]

i think calling it AI instead of LLM is one of the bigger marketing tricks those companies pulled off

[near ocean]

If you can tell AI art apart and are disgusted by it being around it sounds like it didnt actually make artists obsolete

[barren comet]

Of course their skills are still valued more. I'm saying that AI is good enough to make them obsolete in terms of workplaces

[wraith harbor]

well companies are willing to get worse art for cheap, they will cut corners whenever they can get away with it

[near ocean]

No thats just employers seeing an excuse to cut costs

[barren comet]

Exactly. And developers are no different, they are even pricier

[vast shoal]

The work developers and artists do is quite different.

[barren comet]

Yeah it's true, it just depends how good the AI gets.

[hardy verge]

oh it's getting good alright

[wraith harbor]

i mean code has to actually work, art can be bad and still make money

[cosmic iris]

Broo. I didn’t even know that.

[barren comet]

Yeah lol

[near ocean]

Flashbacks to that rabbit r1 thing, it sure did make money

[hardy verge]

AI is developing so fast my kids probably won't get decent jobs unless they're extremley gifted

[barren comet]

And those are not small firms or companies, the biggest pharma group is using those commercials (who'd guess the biggest companies are the greediest)

[cosmic iris]

Daymm.

[near ocean]

I hear healthcare exec positions are quite hazardous as a result of using AI to deny claims

Probably not the outcome they wanted

[wraith harbor]

biggest threat of LLMs right now is the masses offloading their brain power to them

[hardy verge]

Guys at what year do you guys think that AI will be better than humans when it comes to taking jobs related to coding?

[cosmic iris]

Fr.

[peak halo]

2048, idk

[wraith harbor]

i think probably next week

[hardy verge]

I think so too. Around there

[cosmic iris]

And this is why it’s also good to learn how to code instead of using code that you have no clue of how any of it works.

[near ocean]

Its 2027 according to ai-2027

[still condor]

It's common knowledge that exec is dangerous

[vast shoal]

There's absolutely no way to make an educated estimation.

[cosmic iris]

2034 June 18th

[whole flare]

the rabbit r1 was amazing bro wdym /j

[near ocean]

Team at work had a talk about this the other day actually, some wild opinions about being replaced in just 2 years time

[hardy verge]

just wondering is all.

[near ocean]

https://ai-2027.com/

[cosmic iris]

Same

[wraith harbor]

i wonder if anyone on this page has any vested interest in this happening

[vast shoal]

I strongly believe we need a new technological revolution in order to get to the level of replacing human developers, and when that happens is per definition not possible to predict.

[cosmic iris]

I gave you the actual answer here #career-advice message

[barren comet]

it could even be a decade lol who knows

also it's interesting if real AGI could be achieved soon

[hardy verge]

bet, I'll make sure to make as much money right now before this then

[cosmic iris]

That would be surprisingly soon.

[barren comet]

Yeah i think it could hit us sooner than we think

[cosmic iris]

They are already doing experiments on rat brains and growing lumps of human brains. Essentially artificial biological systems

[near ocean]

Ofc they do, theyre former open ai and other ai first groups
One is coo at an ai investment group whatever the fuck that means

[barren comet]

thats true, we don't even need to make it from silicone

[cosmic iris]

It’s actually crazy. 🤌

[whole flare]

[cosmic iris]

Yo did you like my website.

[near ocean]

If theres anything to take home from this page is people really suck at estimating timelines

[whole flare]

Despite you pinging me three times unprompted? No, I have not yet looked at your website

[cosmic iris]

Oh : (

[near ocean]

These people supposed experts in AI think we'll need to fight against skynet by oct 2027

[cosmic iris]

I worked very hard on it it would be great if you could take a look at it and rate it from 1 to 10

[wraith harbor]

[guy who will make 3 billion dollars if AI replaces everyone] yeah i think AI is probably going to replace everyone

[cosmic iris]

Nooo not 2027

[digital fjord]

[Guy who will be given 3 billion today to make an AI that replaces everyone] more like.

[barren comet]

guys sam atlman said his new model is again near genius level did i fell for it again

[cosmic iris]

This will just lead to poverty and lower class treatment all over again .

@whole flare ok here is my website that I would love for you to rate from 1 through to 10 (https://yotabytebandit.github.io/Gift-site-/) i have made many improvements.

[vast shoal]

Fourth time's the charm.

[cosmic iris]

Uh?

[cosmic iris]

Why did buddy not reply to my message but reacted to your message with an emoji. Like bro just say you don’t want to.

[vast shoal]

Cause you pinged them three times before that and they still didn't do what you asked.

[wraith harbor]

why do you want this guy to click your website?

[cosmic iris]

😭

[barren comet]

i looked at it

[cosmic iris]

I don’t actually know?

[barren comet]

is this a portfolio?

[cosmic iris]

@barren comet yoo thanks man. No it’s supposed to be an ip grabber. Joking it’s just a fun experiment I was going on front end ui and back end development

[barren comet]

Ip grabbers are lame now cause almost no one has static ips:((

[cosmic iris]

I can gain access there public ip.

My friend and I where doing it and we where trying to get there MAC address and somehow there local ip from that.

[barren comet]

oh mac addresses are not coupled to any network

[cosmic iris]

Yes only the local network

[barren comet]

they can only tell you the manufacturer of the device

[cosmic iris]

Yea The MAC address belongs to the host themselves. But we where thinking if we gains access to there local ip we could potentially find vulnerable ports within there network externally. Eventually gaining access to the actual MAC address via various methods. What’s strange is once there ipv 6 which confused the f out of me.

[vast shoal]

Anyway, this is still #career-advice, so if you want to talk about other topics, please move to the appropriate channel.

[cosmic iris]

Oki

[reef raptor]

the sad toilet god bargains with a melting paradox on mars during a garlic festival.

[white relic]

if you have nothing to say, please don't say it anyway

[reef raptor]

sorry im just testing this script i made that makes me spew random nonsense to get attention

seems like it works

[white relic]

so, you're self-botting?

[reef raptor]

no, its just a script that generates a random set of sentences whenever i press a key on my keyboard

it works everywhere, including discord

[white relic]

ok.
this channel is for career discussion and advice.

[soft apex]

any possible reasons to take the acutarial exam

[dreamy shell]

what year? bolt.new. replit agent. firebase studio.
that happened yesterday.
openai is releasing 10K usd per month agents.

the only thing thats stopping ai agents to be full employees is nothing other than an architectural issue, we dont need better models. managing text knowledge bases for guiding it properly mainly id say.
devs saying its far out are either coping or have too much bias to even realise what the real limitations are.

[near ocean]

Doom poster final boss?

[dreamy shell]

better models only means, easier agent frameworks, and less reliance on rag

[dreamy shell]

its not doom, its great

microsfot said about 30% of their current code bases in new projects is AI generated. Meta expects to automate 50% of their llm training by next year.

like you have to understand, the job offerings are already affected by the current tech. thats enough to answer the dudes question about when AI is better.
if it wasnt good enough now or expected to be good enough soon, job market wouldnt be changing so much actively

[blissful nest]

Hello everyone, could someone help me? I'm starting out in Python and I already have some idea of ​​how to work with files, or paradigms like parallelism and asynchronous.

I wanted to go into data and ML side, could you tell me how I can go about this?

I use PowerQuerry well in Excel and BI

[near ocean]

What about companies who don't have a direct interest in this thing working?
Anyone not developing their own version of chatgippity laying off 30% of workforce for it?

[blissful nest]

just wanted a human response, but thanks anyway

[dreamy shell]

you asking me if theres tech companies that wanna stay away from using ai?

[near ocean]

Im asking if theres companies that dont have vested interest in selling you this AI shit firing their devs for it

[dreamy shell]

look man you have the wrong angle. companies are not always gonna use it cause theyre tryna make slop, it augments current employee work.
and what it does is rather than especially laying off, it avoids the necessity of growing and taking risks with more employees.
those risks are real given the crap economy u see USA being in rn for example

and rather than think its stealing a position at someones company, you can leverage the tech for your own work. as all it does is fill needs, either removing barrier to entry, or expansion.
all it means, is that we can do more as an economy.
the adoption of calculators didnt kill accountants. new adoptions cause a shift, but it always simply results is removing barriers, not expertise or humans fundamentally, because we are extremely flexible.

[near ocean]

🤨🤨🤨

This gives "just start your own company instead"

[dreamy shell]

not especially, like dude theres so many ways to implement it

for me for example, Im focused on text knowledge management. would allow me to pivot, find ways to work for people or strategies. do you get it, its not like this has a pre set application.

[near ocean]

I have no idea what that means

[dreamy shell]

you dont need to think its tech to execute work, it can massively leverage your work.
shopify CEO said hes gonna require employee audits regarding using ai tech. so implementing it (and theres various forms) makes you a more valuable employee

[near ocean]

Ok, but the question wasnt about using AI in your work, it was about whether AI will replace you entirely

And thats not happening in the near future

[dreamy shell]

one employee using AI, is already avoiding two employees, otherwise the job offerings would remain on similar levels if there was no change at all being caused by it

autonomous agents are being relied upon for generating code even for big companies. also is it like a company size under 100 doesnt count to you?

[near ocean]

That makes no sense lol, if AI makes someone 2x as productive why even have developers at all

(AI does not make you 2x as productive)

[dreamy shell]

you're now finding out why the job market is actively changing

[dreamy shell]

low level programmer prob not cause its niche and high risk. so obviously it depends

[near ocean]

This is one of those things where you need to experience the modern workplace to see that AI will do little to help a developer in their daily duties

[pine sleet]

if you want a career in data science or AI, you'll probably want a bachelor's degree at minimum but preferably a master's too. but in the mean while, the pinned messages in #data-science-and-ml should have some good resources for you

[near ocean]

Might sound elitist or gatekeepy but if you arent employed how would you know?

[dreamy shell]

am I?

[near ocean]

Are you?

[dreamy shell]

would be convenient for your argumentation 😂, anyway yeah

[pine sleet]

i think most professionals would agree that while our current state of AI is quite an impressive piece of technology it's still not quite there yet. it's got its usecases in specific scenarios, though

[dreamy shell]

https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/29/microsoft-ceo-says-up-to-30-of-the-companys-code-was-written-by-ai/

[near ocean]

Yea its writing my commit messages (and nothing else)

[pine sleet]

CEOs are known to say random bullshit to make investors happy, i'll believe it when i see some actual data published

[near ocean]

Can we see from ceos who ARENT SELLING YOU this shit

[dreamy shell]

these discussions are circular.
perhaps you guys could say what the limitations are for AI coding employees.

I said, that its only an architectural issue, that is quite easily solvable, proof of that is third parties like codium and bolt etc.
better models only reduces efforts for RAG and Agent frameworks

[pine sleet]

of current AI?

[near ocean]

I bet you bloomberg isnt having gippity write 30% of their code
Or jpmc

Or literally anyone else who isnt involved in making and marketing this nonsense

[pine sleet]

i'm sure they use AI but not the LLM kind

the kind that's existed before the hype bubble

[near ocean]

We're also forgetting about regulatory obstacles and other government red tape
Not only are llms not capable technically to take your job, theres strict regulation on who gets to handle user data that is definitely not making it to a bot unless companies want to be fined to the ground

[dreamy shell]

not even the EU is concerned about what you're saying
their focus is on how the techs being used, not much regarding the consumer side

[pine sleet]

it's probably done at the company level, not the national level

[near ocean]

The eu is very concerned about it

[dreamy shell]

so EU is mainly focused on AI being used for transport, CV-sorting, certain niches deemed unacceptable or high risk. companies using it is deemed limited risk. obviously data handling isnt neglected, but when you have only a few providers, thats not making their transparency obligations insane.

also cloud APIs dont retain data, and regulators know that.
Under the EU AI Act, coding assistants fall into the minimal-risk category and face no additional compliance burdens

[wraith harbor]

i havent been in this discord very long and im already tired of the ai is taking our jobs debate

[dreamy shell]

I dont LIKE it either. but when I see people say its not feasible, or years out... you are tripping
https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1jxlo7k/openai_is_working_on_agentic_software_engineer/?rdt=32984

[pine sleet]

imagine what software engineers feel who've been hearing this for years

[wraith harbor]

its literally only people with money on the line that keep making promises like this. an LLM is not intelligent it just knows what words to put together

[dreamy shell]

yeah, just like us. what you think free will makes us special (we dont have free will)

[pine sleet]

yeah pretty much. it's why most actual engineers will concede that it's a cool technology but will disagree that it's going to completely replace everyone

[wraith harbor]

i think we equate language with intelligence, but humans still were intelligent before we came up with language. its basically just a statistical model of human language

[dreamy shell]

intelligence is information processing, unless you believe in spirits or penrose non computational brain. Global neuronal workspace, basically f neuroscience, shows its info processing.
thats what layered llms (agents) do. compartmentalization of information, with specific roles etc.

we saw the rise of COT, greatly improves llm output, and the next thing theyre gonna engineer is latent space reasoning. this stuff isnt trash gpt 2 anymore.
AI is moving beyond token-based language models also.
😐 if Im so off the f plot enlighten me, cause this is circular without yall backing your unc bias, like id welcome a change in objective perspectives. I have no reason to have an affiliation with AI

[pine sleet]

actually not sure about that but that's a whole other discussion for another channel

[wraith harbor]

yeah idk it is what it is. im just trying to get a new job

[pine sleet]

i mean as of now it's pretty trivial to be better than AI. as a current student its kinda scary how large of a chunk of people use AI as a crutch

[wraith harbor]

yeah a lot of people are shooting themselves in the foot

[pine sleet]

learn to use AI as a tool, know when it's bad, and when it's good, and you'll already be ahead of the curve

[wraith harbor]

i use ai for my job but if i overuse it the code just gets really messed up

[pine sleet]

yep it's kind of bad when working within existing large codebases

which, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, is the majority of SWE jobs

[wraith harbor]

i wonder if ai will make it harder for new languages to get adopted

[pine sleet]

i feel like it'd be easier for AI to automate PM type roles than engineering

[fleet kernel]

hi guys

robin what's up

WHAT THE... 20 SECONDS FOR EACH MESSAGE?? T.T who set this

[pine sleet]

it's always been like this. maybe you mistook this channel for off topic?

[lean vine]

like python fundamentals and basic code

[signal elm]

good day every one, im looking to dive in a python community and i end up here, so HI EVERYONE NICE TO MEET YOU GUYS

[desert pewter]

hi leex

[mighty magnet]

hello, im doing a school assigment, and my gameis to literally make a number guessing game. would this code work and stuff

import random

guess = int(input("Guess a number (1-10): "))
number = random.randint(1, 10)

if guess == number:
print("You Win!")
else:
print(f"You Lose! The number was {number}")

[old quest]

are jobs in web development more compared to any other software development field

why there is a large number of people behind this. my university is filled with MERN stack developers

[near birch]

Hello, i've been worried around that how difficult is it to obtain a non-stipend summer internship fir training in current tech market?
Can anybody please acknowledge?

[buoyant seal]

i guess yes. checking in my origin country job vacancies i can see
1061 frontend devs, 1568 backend devs, 304 full stack, 922 devops engineers
100 desktop, 600 mobile devs

[buoyant seal]

that's kind of disgusting ugly part of web dev 😅 Since it is the most easiest part to get started in full stack way, novices often go towards it.
But u can escape it, and learn doing quality web (backed focused) development in Golang, Java/Kotlin, and may be even .Net instead

[buoyant seal]

Web dev is big and used in plethora of languages, so nobody Exactly forcing u to do MERN and JS stuff exactly (or using some other ugly stuff like Ruby/Perl/PHP). Except if u wish focusing onto Web frontend, then yes u are stuck with JS/TS. So then better not picking frontend and picking Backend dev first approach 😏

[wraith harbor]

is there a website to see these statistics? or is it only for your country

[buoyant seal]

i checked them for my own country that has 140m population. ( hh.ru ). I think 140m population is representative enough to do it
U can check for world wide if desired in Linkedin or Indeed.com
Or just check your local country hiring web sites

[raw rapids]

probably because a) the web is broken and b) web devs prefer fast progression to maintainability

[raw rapids]

While overly true, there are a couple of frontend jobs, that are not JS/TS. Dart as an example, Rails can do frontend without Javascript as well, ClojureScript has some jobs, maybe even Elm (admittedly less) and there are a bunch of other languages, who compile to Javascript besides those.

Kotlin is big in coming, as an example (Compose Multiplatform, Kotlin/JS) and also Elixir has ways to build the frontend natively.

You have to look for it, and its definitely a possiblity.

[buoyant seal]

As well as some programming language offer Wasm for frontend like Rust and .Net
but i still see it as not mature, niche stuff. Very low adoptation/very very very low job popular as far as i see

[raw rapids]

Yep, I was about to mention that and forgot about it halfway through, thanks ^^

I think Kotlin is currently a one of the best job languages, because its so versatile.

Ah yeah, F# has a bunch of great frontend tools, just very little jobs as well.

[buoyant seal]

it does look attractive to invest into it. High quality coding, Linux friendly, usable for everything, backed up by Google.
Chances for its success are overly high.
Unless Java/Oracle will be catching up steadily and not giving up its ecosystem.
A bit of indecision here is present. Java or Kotlin 😄
Not really liking lock into Jetbrains IDEs though, Jetbrains is yet another greedy corp

[raw rapids]

And the existing codebases are bearable

Very different to Java codebases ^^

Kotlin has already the dominating market share for Android apps, and about everything that Java is used at, other languages are taking over. Java is on the decline, its still widespread installed and due that, there is a demand to maintain these installations.

[raw rapids]

While Jetbrains IDEs are best for Kotlin, VSCode is not bad and I imagine so long as the treesitter implementation is good, can Helix also be an alternative.

[buoyant seal]

Shrugs. Java does catches up with Kotlin, and its each version shorten the gap considerably.
Java has established overly rich ecosystem, so if it is able to fix it bugs, going for more immature and hyped Kotlin becomes more questionable endavour
Makes questioning if transitioning will happen towards Kotlin in such conditions.

[raw rapids]

And Jetbrains did at least move from Russia, with lots and lots of employees. Its not like they put money over everything.

lesser evil

[hearty island]

guys - how would you prep for an internal interview? i'm networking my butt off. i think they're gonna come swinging with the first question. most likely to be: "why do you think you're the best candidate for this role?"

and then dive into situationals

i don't want to post the role bc i don't wanna doxx myself lol

[shut pollen]

How would posting the role dox you?

The job title itself won't reveal your name, location or country

Job postings are public, applications aren't

[balmy spade]

You prep by practicing the answers to questions exactly like "why do you think you're the best candidate for this role?"

Work on your answers. Write then down. Practice answering them in a mirror. All the normal interview things. You can ask others in your network who have done interviews for a mock interview. Everyone gets nervous at an interview. It's just a matter of being comfortable enough.

[hearty island]

i'd rather not reveal the company i work for lol

[lofty sundial]

Hi everyone

can you guy's help me with a survey

I need help of dev community in this that's why i am here

[shut pollen]

What do you need help with specifically?

Describe your problem

[inner coyote]

Hey, what's going on here folks?

[lofty sundial]

I am conducting a survey as part of my study on the artifacts and practices used during the requirements phase of software development. The goal is to understand how professionals handle requirement gathering, communication, and documentation in real-world projects.

plz allow me to post survey link

[vast shoal]

You can message @severe widget to discuss it with the staff team

[peak halo]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[delicate swift]

Say,
What does it really take to have a startup?
I've been cooking an idea in my head for a... long time, actually. It started as an one-off project to solve a need for a relative, but they found it super useful for their job.
And well, there's an opportunity there, perhaps?
However, making it an actual startup seems like an incredible (and expensive) jump from just one user liking it.

I'd like some resources to read on, if possible

[next plover]

?

[delicate swift]

<@&831776746206265384> Uh, crypto advertisement?

[next plover]

discord just flagged them as a spammer 💀

[tranquil birch]

hm

[still condor]

!cleanban 571229319112818708 crypto scam / spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @eager cypress permanently.

[still condor]

cban has been removed

[tranquil birch]

ah

[still condor]

(because it's unclear whether it's cleanban or compban)

[tranquil birch]

ive been out of this a bit

[distant sonnet]

Checkout my Python Password Manager, tell me what you think:

https://github.com/jjroby1993/PythonPasswordManager

[quartz aspen]

This is not a recruitment board

[quartz aspen]

This is wrong channel for this. Try #1035199133436354600 with code review tag

[smoky quest]

The most expensive part will be your time and energy (assuming you are doing a saas, not a infra heavy product).

But having someone already using it and liking it is a great start.
Next step would be to find more people like your relative who experience the same or similar problem and to reach out to them

In terms of resources, there are tons, but I would suggest to start there: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1118960874/

[keen hollow]

Hi, I'm Taylor. I finished my master's in data science this January and i've been struggling to find a job ever since. Doesn't help that i got my degree entirely online and don't have any industry intern experience. It feels like linkedin is just the wrong place to be looking and I feel like i'm missing something.

[delicate swift]

It is a SaaS.
TLDR, it's a logistics support application that sets up a virtual checklist for truckers.
So you got pre-travel checklist, during, after, etc

It's super simple. It's just a checklist.

But well, he apparently uses it a lot on his laptop and aids his traveling, since he doesn't have to manually remember and can just have his laptop always open.

That could become something if I decided investing and expanding it, perhaps.
To my knowledge there is no direct widespread competitor. But then again, who knows

Bit of a pipedream, though. Who knows if this could ever take off.

[tacit trellis]

I need someone to help me with python

Dm me please it's private information also.

[peak halo]

Hello, you can't ask for help in this server with questions that you're either unwilling or unable to disclose. If you decide to ask your whole question, giving all necessary information, please use #1035199133436354600

[tacit trellis]

It's a private information sheet that I need a advanced python scripter to help and support me with

[peak halo]

Then you can't ask about it here. This is a warning

[tacit trellis]

Why though?

[tacit trellis]

It's a confidential source by CLM and we need a advanced python scripter.

[still condor]

As you can read in the channel description, this channel is not for job postings. You should consult a freelancing website (like upwork or whatever is popular in your country)

[tacit trellis]

It isnt a job posting we just need a line of code

[still condor]

If you want someone to write a program for free, we're not going to stop you, but you're unlikely to find people to do that.

[tacit trellis]

For free?

Its 1 line of code we roughly need and we need it in the next 1 hour

Or CLM is gone forever, we've been hacked and our database is getting deleted

[next plover]

i dont think you understand, you are still not in the right channel

[keen hollow]

the urgency almost reads like a scam also lol

[remote moat]

if you need 1 line of code, you can just ask

in this chat, or in #1035199133436354600

[remote moat]

especially with some urgency like this

you'd want to ask the public/many people, not just a single person

[tender thicket]

!pban 1334878761103130729 advertising

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @sullen stump permanently.

[vapid jay]

Hello

[old quest]

guys i think am finished.....

So just yesterday i had my semester Exam for DBMS. Database management systems
i didn't spend enough time studying all the theory part and even some concepts. now i feel am going to get 60% or even D grade. (i only secured 35/50 on internals)

i wish to be a backend developer. is this a huge setback am i doomed?

[buoyant seal]

i don't think so. I think learning wielding relational databases is not very big thing to catch up to.
Just a week or two of studies with intensive practice is enough to get average dev level
Not very big subject in terms of, to get the level of avg required level i think

[old quest]

hm i hope interviewer don't look my grade sheet

[buoyant seal]

i suspect nobody will, with around 98% chance. it will matter only name of university and degree name 😄

[old quest]

ok, that ain't a reputable one either. i just got to focus on projects now, its the only way ig

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
Give a go to learning quality coding too. Unit testing matters 😎
Core Software Engineering skills are useful in any dev job role.

And besides that, quality project is nice to go too
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
I wrote here some advices how to try making stellar ones, advices to finding community of your interests in which u can find users u can help

[rose canopy]

Hey everyone! I’m Shaikh Wasique, a backend developer with a Master’s in Computer Applications (MCA) and 2+ years of experience working with Python (FastAPI/Django), SQL, and ERPNext. I’ve built scalable APIs, automation scripts, and AI-integrated backend systems. Currently looking for new projects or collaborations whether it’s building MVPs, streamlining operations, or backend consulting. Always up for meaningful tech conversations and problem-solving!

[lilac sundial]

Hi

[wind cedar]

If I am working for a company who’s headquarters is in California, but I’m working for them remotely in a different state. Is it fine to list the location where the company’s headquarters is located even though I’m not physically at that place during my time working there so as long as I put remote next to that location on my resume and on my LinkedIn profile?

[dense mica]

Amazingly, and thankfully, my grade sheet has never been checked by an employer lol

[vast shoal]

Just so you know, this isn't a job board.

[heady cliff]

hi guys I am using kivy i have my script ready but i don't know how to export to my mobile the app i s ready to use
i just dont know how to to export it!
please help

[vast shoal]

This is #career-advice, not general Python support. Take a look at #❓｜how-to-get-help

[red delta]

hi yall umm i need help

[harsh river]

#python-discussion

[red delta]

i have been having trouble on installing pygame is vs code

and when i try to run pygame its just an error

do yall know how to fix it?

[vast shoal]

@red delta

[red delta]

ops sorry i didnt realize im not i the right one

[vapid jay]

people hiring alot for ml engineers?

[icy pagoda]

app devs if it's just integrating ml usually; PhDs if it's research roles

LLM frameworks (especially prompting/RAGs etc) could fall under both but that's probably app devs too

[narrow haven]

hi everyone

[unkempt forge]

Hello guys, I am here to seek some guidance and advice from you fellow python enthusiasts. I have a background in finance (not trading). I provide financial and strategy consulting for clients either for growth or getting them ready for sale to other buyers. I have a firm belief that in the next 5 years every finance professional will need to know python or some computer language. So I want to learn but I’m struggling to understand how python will benefit me in my current role? Or at what level of depth do I need to understand python for my current role.

Can anyone give some guidance?

[vast shoal]

Can I ask what gives you the firm belief that finance professionals must know Python if you can't imagine how it will benefit you?

[peak moth]

Would something like an ubereats clone be a good project to put on my resume?

[peak halo]

how would you re-implement uber eats on your own?

[still condor]

Make a Nietzsche-styled takeout

[vast shoal]

That which does not satiate us makes us hungrier.

[peak moth]

I haven't decided on the specifics yet, if I do this will be my first full stack project

Probably springboot + redis

[still condor]

Well, the problem is that you'd need to simulate drivers and deliveries somehow

So it would be more of a mock project

[hard sand]

im trying to get into coding which ide is good? gemini suggets thonny

[still condor]

#python-discussion or #editors-ides would be the appropriate channel for that
But Thonny is a solid choice

[hard sand]

oki doki

[peak moth]

Yeah

[still condor]

I'd rather choose something that's smaller in scope but actually does its job. Like a shopping list application

Like a todo list, but with some domain specific things (like adding alternatives to goods in case they're missing or too expensive)

[soft gale]

Want to ask, my parents want me to get a dead end minimum wage job, but I wanna continue my studies and get a job in computers. My brother and parents kinda started telling me things and felt like they don't support me. Not sure what to do.

[peak halo]

when you say "continue your studies", what does that entail? are you applying to or currently attending a university?

[fickle atlas]

im gonna to start college in 3 months and wanted a head start. ive been watching CS50 and this 2 hr tutorial on python kinda confused and wanted like a roadmap on what to do and what language to learn and how so i can make projects later and stuff if someone can helpit would mean alot

[vapid jay]

what about self driving cars

[proud glacier]

If you're going to start college, learning any programming at all will be a great advantage to you in your initial classes. For that purpose it doesn't really matter which language you pick; Python is an excellent choice.

You can continue with CS50p (the Python edition, since regular CS50 is in C). The important thing is to not just watch, but actively put what you're learning into practice, i.e. actually write code and do the exercises and build your own little programs.

You can also use Automate the Boring Stuff, which takes a different approach and will teach you (as the name implies) how to automate various computer tasks. Maybe you find these sorts of projects appeal to you more.

I wouldn't get too hung up on having a roadmap at this stage.

[fickle atlas]

thanks alot dude. yeah alot of people are kinda against roadmap and stuff and ive head to not stick to tutorials as much and actually code more. if uve watched cs50 do they give u projects to make after few lectures?

because i dont even have any knowledge to make a project rn

[soft gale]

I was halfway done with school, Just needed like 2 years left

[proud glacier]

They have problem sets for every lecture (do solve them), and a final project at the end of the course.

[fickle atlas]

i heard cs50 is pretty hard which idont mind ill try to solve every problem ican

[proud glacier]

But you can come up with your own project ideas. Even if you can't do that right now, you might find yourself with more ideas after you've had a better idea of what can be done with programming.
There are also lists of project ideas online that you can use for inspiration. Things like https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html which we recommend here often, and the Automate the Boring Stuff book I mentioned, and so on.

[fickle atlas]

thanks a lot dude i really do appreciate it! im also a indian student btw

[fast fossil]

You were? Did you drop out?
Either way, I suppose it's tough when your closest ones don't want to support you... Have they brought forth any reasonable arguments though? Since, statistically, in the long term, having a university degree is more likely to land you a high-income job. Also what support are you talking about exactly? Financial? Have you looked into what your state/country can provide in that regard to help you?

[soft gale]

Yeah, I went through some personal issues and stopped going for a while, I ended up transferring. It mostly like moral support, theyre just so insistent on like just getting a job, but I wanna go to school. My brother was kinda arguing with me that I dont do anything, but he ended up taking one of those like course careers, so not sure why he's so judgemental.

[peak halo]

Getting a job (such as at retail or food service) and resuming your degree are not mutually exclusive. If you're not enrolled in courses right now, it would make sense to get a job to stay productive. And you can still do that job part time while you're enrolled.

What's the soonest you can re enroll?

[next arch]

Hi, I am a new member, just joined. I was wondering if anyone had any code ideas? I have just been bored for awhile now.

[solar garden]

make a tic tac toe game

[next arch]

Sure, thanks!

[solar garden]

good luck

[next arch]

Also I was wondering if anyone uses online GDB as a coding platform?

Anyone?

[plush summit]

This is for career discussion not random python questions

[frozen nebula]

Where did my pip install flask go? My import isn't working....

[vast shoal]

This is #career-advice, not for general Python support. Please read #❓｜how-to-get-help.

[next plover]

ive failed more tests than passed in my life i turned out "fine" as in i have a job in tech

[fervent egret]

hey chat where is the place you take about how to code things in python?

[summer roost]

#python-discussion

[vapid jay]

https://youtu.be/Kx_nVrEKwTE?feature=shared

How did they code those whatnis it called? Like operating system coding?

[unkempt forge]

I think going forward all finance functions will touch programming to a certain degree. So knowing the syntax or structures of languages will definitely help.

[harsh river]

you haven’t really explained why or how it connects to your specific work. It might help both you and the rest of us if you could clarify what you’re seeing in the industry that makes you so sure python being a neccesity for your industry

[scarlet elk]

Wall Street runs on code. I was actually looking into this the other day. Why does the Python community have to bless big tech all the time.

But anyways iirc it’s C++ running the stack at Wall Street. Maybe C? It is a lot to unpack

[pine sleet]

its probably a combination, like most companies/organizatinos

[smoky quest]

Everything runs on code nowadays.
For finance, you will find all sorts of stacks. From excel, to ocaml, java, C++ and .net, and even python

[scarlet elk]

Oh no we have just opened the flood gates for the finance bros

[smoky quest]

Why antagonizing people who work in a given field? Bait used to be believable

[scarlet elk]

I kid I kid. Light-hearted jab

Don’t get the cybersecurity pros in here 😂

Sorry for laughing. Hope all is well chat

[vast shoal]

That being said, I think any kind of digitalized office work can benefit from programming knowledge in the sense that you'll be able to automate repetitive and structured tasks, which saves time and increases productivity. You may just want to start reading and learning from something like https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ (which specifically aims at teaching you how to automate office work) and try to see how that can help you. Over time, if you stick with it, I'm sure you'll start seeing how you can make use of the knowledge for something that's more specific to your domain.

[wary notch]

Why I switched to Linux:

1)I can use Linux without Microsoft spying whatever I type. (https://youtu.be/j2TyrLZT0r0?si=tkXowLJ5g-VJqNrz).

2. Linux uses a different memory management approach, eventually consuming less RAM compared to Windows. (https://www.linkedin.com/advice/3/what-performance-implications-memory-usage-windows-z18le).

3. Linux is less a target for malware. (https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-computers-account-for-83-of-all-malware-attacks-in-q1-2020). And less of a target for ransomware too. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1498850/most-targeted-operating-systems-with-ransomware/).

4. Linux has bigger repositories than Windows, so I can install more programs without using browser downloads.

5. I had to reset Windows multiple times, so this time I’m having a dual boot in case Windows stops working again.

[buoyant seal]

i have more simple reasons:

1. I am Backend developer and DevOps engineer. software i need is just having native support for Linux only, it is just easier to use Linux as dev machine directly for web dev (for stuff like Docker or any C dependencies in any software), instead of using Remote machines/VMs
2. I also appreciate Linux being free for licensed version.
3. And i also appreciate not dealing any longer with Microsoft rehiding interface each time to some new place again, and not being bothered with their forced updates, not having installed official malwares sponsored by Microsoft (like the famous recall), and just not dealing with Microsoft in general.
4. In general nicer to have PC running faster with less bloatware and with more RAM due to stuff like zRAM, which essentially doubles my RAM amount

[wary notch]

Nice. I’ll search what zRAM is

[white relic]

#linux-advocacy

[vapid jay]

how do I extract META data(clicks, likes, shares) from a business page (that i have access to) for analysing it?

[buoyant seal]

😏 in my company i am the one responsible for configuration of monitoring systems.
The answer is using Distributed Monitoring Systems like Grafana Stack, or some other choices are possible.
This specific info, Clicks, Likes, Shares en mass, is good to gather from Backend application with Prometheus Clients.
Like Client Python https://prometheus.github.io/client_python/
And exporting to Prometheus (or Mimir) and visualizing in Grafana. U can see plenty of pretty info in a cheap way then

With some effort, even some shiny geo maps could be configured.
Grafana has plenty of different dashboard types
All u need just feed it with more metrics (and optionally logs and traces)

[buoyant seal]

people usually start with using actually just "Logging" as a first step. JSON logging is good to go as it is compatible natively with systems like Loki.
but Metrics are more made to make shiny dashboards for easier view.

So the answer is: Feed your backend to metrics lib as a good way to see overview on dashboards
Requires ability to change backend app 😏

Doing it from Frontend i think is extremely bad idea.
Frontend is usually already overloaded with frontend problems. I think it is more purely Backend devs responsibility to gather data like the one u mentioned

[buoyant seal]

for frontend there is very crafty solution to get extra intel as RUM monitoring, which datadog implemented rather excellently. i think a good way to see some insights into user behavior including what he clucks.
But the general overview (for LARGE amount of info) better to do from metrics gathered in backend due to their performance and storage effiency

[wary notch]

Which distro do you use?

[buoyant seal]

i use LTS versions of Kubuntu. I appreciate that it has all things working nice as default.
Including super nice multi window terminal Konsole, the most important part of interface.
Very comfy for me, former Windows user which appreciated Windws 7 era as being the best one.

[wary notch]

Is Kubuntu a lightweight distro?

[buoyant seal]

highly likely not. KDE plasma is probably one of heaviest here in terms of consumption.
The disk footprint is average probably

[wary notch]

I used Windows 7 too but I was too young back then

[wary notch]

Oh ok

[unreal lagoon]

hello has anyone made the change from windows to mac
Does it help your career

[near ocean]

It does nothing for your career

[vast shoal]

Maybe there are creative professions where not using Mac is a big impediment, but for software development, it doesn't make any difference at all.

[buoyant seal]

it can affect your career probably positively, if u develop MacOs desktop or Ios mobile programs
And that's it. In everything else it is downgrade
U will have access to less software than Wndows or Linux users have

[wary notch]

Can you send me a friend request?

[vapid jay]

thoughts on metaverse?

[peak halo]

seems like it's not going anywhere. why do you ask?

[grizzled shuttle]

I am still not getting a clear idea on how much should I actually learn to get an ML job, is there someone who is already working on any ml roles and help me with what, and how much should I learn.

I already know the basics of python.
Good command on mathematical aspects of machine learning.
Have theoretical understanding of machine learning algorithms.

I have 3 months to prepare for a good ml role and stuck here what to do exactly now.

[peak halo]

ML roles are very degree-requiring. Are you currently pursuing a CS-or-similar degree that's related to ML?

[vapid jay]

i waswatching all the commercials and the "vision for it" it seems like a good idea

just glasses seamless to work with people. can play basketball with 3d people and its super quick and fast as if your there in real time

[grizzled shuttle]

No, I am not having any cs degree but a diploma certificate with specialization in ML

[vapid jay]

the idea is nice do you think that idea is deliverable?

[peak halo]

this is where, in India?

[grizzled shuttle]

Yes, in India.

[white relic]

the metaverse is clearly deliverable, the question is whether anyone is accepting the delivery.
it seems moving most of our interactions into a virtual world isn't something people in general are lining up to do, despite that the technology exists.
maybe tech enthusiasts aren't very good judges of why people do things?

[proper oar]

India wow

[white relic]

or, to look at it another way: so much of our lives has already moved into virtual space for one reason or another. Virtual healthcare, remote meetings, ordering stuff from Amazon instead of going to the store. The metaverse already exists; we call it the Internet. What, precisely, is the "vision" and what does it offer over what we already have?
(btw, this is #career-advice , possibly we should take this to ot if you want to continue the discussion, unless you have a career question)

[vapid jay]

yeah lets take it to another channel

[vapid jay]

because if you heer what i have to say you may change your mind because i think i understand the metaverse a bit differently

[white relic]

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare is fine

[winged plume]

why i use windows on 13yo hardware:

1. gaming
2. wsl
3. i have ddr3 ram which is cheap so i can afford 64gb of ddr3 meaning more gaming less whining

[wary notch]

I don’t know what is wsl or ddr3. Though it seems to be all about gaming

[winged plume]

wsl is windows subsystem for linux, allows for running linux without the typical overhead of a vm, ddr3 is data double rate 3, a technology invented for RAM

[wary notch]

???

I just did a double boot between Windows 11 and Linux Mint. I’m not this expert, lol

[winged plume]

try wsl

[wary notch]

For all I know, wsl is meat

[winged plume]

you won't have to turn off ur pc and reboot it again

[winged plume]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux

[wary notch]

I don’t even know how it works but I don’t want to use Windows ever

[winged plume]

you will when you'd wanna game

[wary notch]

I’d rather stop playing games than use Windows

[white relic]

can we not do OS holy wars in #career-advice ? thanks

[next plover]

you can game on linux lol || oops this is career discussion||

[abstract inlet]

I was thinking about doing the same but saw multiple comments that one update from windows might corrupt your files so I'm just gonna go full linux whatever happens happens (OS in Career Discussion Rip*)

[wary notch]

True. This is why I’m never going to boot Windows again. Lol.

However, I found out how to fix it. In the BIOS I had to put Grub as the preferred bootloader rather than Windows

[wary notch]

This isn’t the only reason why I’m not using Windows.

I’m liking Linux, obviously.

And in Windows 11 I had viruses so I don’t want to use it ever again.

[vapid jay]

Does the gnu within windows could corrupt some files in windows ?

[deft herald]

!ot
guys go off topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[open ivy]

People love to hate job search. But I find networking and personal projects, the two staples of my strategy, quite fun. As well as the occasional learning about technology updates.

I wonder if people who are afraid to socialize are too risk adverse? Sure, reaching out has risks. But not doing so is very risky.

[next plover]

its not what you know or who you know, its who knows you

[near ocean]

Reaching out doesnt have risks
Youre not going on some blacklist by cold calling unless youre actually harassing people

[next plover]

i fully DMed a CISO of a fortune 500 on linkedin and got a 1x1 meeting with him

[plush summit]

Ddr3 is crazy

[smoky quest]

I mean, you can continue to network and have personal projects any time. That's not contingent on searching for a job, which itself is soul crushing

[near ocean]

#data-science-and-ml and also this isnt twitter, you don't need the hashtags

[hardy nexus]

Trying to build a pipeline to extract raw data from SAP via API and load it directly into Power BI using Python. Anyone done this before or have tips/tools to recommend? #PowerBI #SAP #Python #DataEngineering

[carmine oxide]

Hi folks, I'm trying to find a website I can use to create a portfolio of my studies in data analysis, very simplistic with just my name/title/opening paragraph and then 4 or 5 collapsible sub-sections of Maths, Excel, SQL, Python - can anyone recommend please?

[summer roost]

this is the #career-advice channel, @carmine oxide / @hardy nexus

[carmine oxide]

yes?

[lilac yoke]

word press is good? wouldn’t be a stretch to just make this in good ol HTML and CSS

[pastel thunder]

can I remove one job (the one before current) I did for 4 months from resume?
It seems recruiters are reluctant to interview me as a result of that.
Could it be a problem? if i get selected and after that they get to know this (they would know since I am from INDIA and they have access to it)?

I have been DM ed by amazon, qualcomm, amd (in last 2-3 weeks) but they dont proceed further after asking for my resume.

I dont think I could be any better fit for the kind of roles they hire for.

or i could edit my resume to look like my linkedin (without months and just the years)🧠

[fathom haven]

I'm a Python/Django dev by day, bug wrangler by night, and occasional caffeine-powered stack overflow archaeologist. Studied CS and Stats at GSU, so yes, I can confirm I’ve cried over both math and code.

I mess around with React, Node.js, and recently let AI and computer vision ruin my sleep schedule. Here to learn stuff, help out when I can, and probably break something in the process.

If you need help with Django or just want to complain about semicolons, hit me up. Let’s write some questionable code together 💻🐍

[raw rapids]

You could write to the companies that have rejected you, and ask for feedback

[alpine helm]

I’ll be applying for a undergraduate cs degree soon. I’ve always had interest in cs but I still don’t know if it’s safe for the future. I keep watching videos about ai and how cs is good or bad for you but I feel like it’s all fake. so I’m asking if that it’s worth it and is it safe

[mellow blade]

Was literally JUST away to ask this question.

[still condor]

We get that question just about every day here. No, programmers are not getting replaced by AI any time soon

[gentle zealot]

can i use py in arch linux

[open sonnet]

hi guys im new here

[open sonnet]

yes you can

[gentle zealot]

do i use pacman to install it?

[open sonnet]

yea, its the pack manager for it?

[abstract inlet]

I would say make it looks like your LinkedIn with the Years , After getting selected for interview they'll probably ask everything but it's better if you can get selected for Interview it's not like they'll say Let's take your interview ask the dates then decline , they'll probably go with the interview and if you've enough skills you'll probably get hired , I would infact say it's better if you can get interviewed by hiding it

[open ivy]

Honestly, if the job search is soul crushing isn't that our gut feeling telling us that we are doing it wrong?

[smoky quest]

You cannot be in control of everything. As such, no, I would not arrive to that conclusion

[fierce ledge]

Hey everyone! I'm Nikky 🎨🛍️
I'm really happy to be part of this community! I'm passionate about art and running online stores—I love expressing creativity through visuals and turning ideas into something people can enjoy or use. I currently run an online store .
Looking forward to learning, sharing, and connecting with like-minded people here!

[open ivy]

I don't expect the job search to be exactly a fun activity. But it can be better than "soul crushing" if we stratigize correctly I think. Which makes it more sustainable.

[smoky quest]

and how would you accomplish that?

[open ivy]

There is no magic bullet, but there are several strategies that work together.l and turn "soul crushing" into "tolerable".

Firstly, the actual looking for jobs is just one ingredient, networking (friendships) and portfolio projects as those are vital and have knock-on benefits.

Secondly, there are job boards where you post your resume and companies look for you. So it reverses the application process.

Thirdly, there are smaller companies for which they are less well known and you can apply on their site which is a bit less painful.

Fourthly, you can look at blogs, YouTuber, etc if small companies (or particular departments of larger companies). Some of the material is advert fluff but there are also deeper dives into the technology if you know where to look. Then you can reach out to the people if you think the position could be a good fit. This isnt necessarilynetworking as you can be more upfront with wanting to get a job.

Generally the strategy is smaller number but higher quality, and learning something each application or role that fits. It isn't super fun, but I think it can be made tolerable.

[next plover]

with remote jobs being huge (esp in IT) you are highly unlikely to get a job by being the 2000th applicant with a cookiecutter resume and degree, imo and experience you need to have an in before you apply, internships and applying internally is amazing for example. I also have a blog which proves I know how to do my job, a degree proves you showed up to class and passed (to a random HR person)

[calm phoenix]

hey guys

[open ivy]

Yes, that shows that applying blindly is not the strat. But there are far less than 2000 people reading the "average" small company blog and responding to it.

[next plover]

oh yeah for sure

[dry arch]

whats up

[smoky quest]

Sure. These are great activities and ideas.
But none of these, or even all of them together, would be able to remove the soul crushing part of it.

The applicants still have to apply and face hundreds if not thousands of rejections. They will be judged and may doubt themselves. And by its very nature, the process might feel unfair to the applicants

[smoky quest]

By definition, entry level roles do not require experience. That's tautological.
A degree is just a starting point. You can stand out through the classes and projects you have made. If a student settles for the minimum, they will have to expect the minimum outcome.

[open ivy]

"hundreds to thousands" is automation territory and bots can be fun to build and let it run and handle (most of) the world. We are programmers after all. Or even "job applications as a service".

But I disagree with the shotgun approach, I think that there are ways to get around that with clever curation. Namely, you have to go to the results that are hard to find those companies are not flooded because their SEO is crap. But the company can still be good. Emerald cloud lab was an example for me, I saw it from years away and got to the third interview.

[honest helm]

yo fam

[torn fox]

hey

[smoky quest]

I would not consider hundreds to thousands as a shotgun approach.
If you apply to 3 jobs per week day, that is 15 jobs per week. In 10 weeks, that's 150 jobs.
3 jobs per day is plenty enough that you don't shotgun it

[smoky quest]

wait, am confused about your example of Emerald cloud lab. Did they have bad SEO and got to the third round through connections?

[soft needle]

🙂hi, everyone. I'm looking for a man to collaborate with me.🙂

If you're interested in connecting with me, plz let me know anytime.

Thanks.

[karmic token]

would you accept a woman with a goatee or does it strictly need to be a man

[soft needle]

thanks, but it should be a man.

[karmic token]

seems a little sexist don't you think? you should also consider reading the channel description

[soft needle]

hey, kidding? I'm looking for a collaborator.

[alpine spindle]

uh yeah must be one to go into women only gyms too (assuming a male here)

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 , <@&831776746206265384>

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[karmic token]

what does that have to do with the gender of the person writing code for you lol

[alpine spindle]

So you admit this??

[prime tree]

someone need help for writing program of an earthquake detector

with python

[manic nacelle]

I love me some python

[nova panther]

,

[nova panther]

print("i love me some python")

[nova panther]

it's impossible to detect earthquake

[manic nacelle]

print("Earthquake detected")

[nova panther]

fr ?

[manic nacelle]

What's the plan?

[near ocean]

This is #career-advice you can chit chat in #ot1-perplexing-regexing @manic nacelle @nova panther

[undone bane]

@digital fjord does this count as "offering jobs"? i think it does

[white relic]

Please read the channel descriptions and rules before posting. You may not solicit jobs or post other advertisements on this server.

[white relic]

You can ping the Moderators role to bring attention to a channel, instead of pinging individual mods, who may not be available at the time.
(Or message @severe widget)

[hollow scarab]

guys, when somebody says they work as a frontend dev. Does that mean they work in a web development, mobile, desktop, or both?

[deft herald]

most likely web dv

[white relic]

the distinction can be blurry, as web technology is often used for all three

[vast shoal]

Though I find that people who do mobile tend to call themselves mobile devs

[hollow scarab]

does a software engineer have to also excel in not only one aspect but more? like I see some people when mentioning their job, they always capable of building not only web apps but also mobile apps

[deft herald]

Absolutely, software engineer's jobs are very much multi-faceted

They need to know how to communicate effectively and professionally first of all. Other typical required skills are things like version control, testing, CI/CD, systems integration, sys admin, etc

[dense urchin]

Hi guys

[vast shoal]

Yes, it's not unusual that a software engineer has experience developing multiple different types of applications, and if you want the best possible employment opportunities, you should be ready to learn what you need in order to make most types of applications in short order.

[dense urchin]

Hey I have a question

[deft herald]

We might have an answer

[dense urchin]

Does anyone have ML/Machine Learning experience here

[deft herald]

Yes there are many

[deft herald]

Does this relate to careers? Might not be the best channel to ask

[dense urchin]

Not really, planning to be a game developer in the future but using C++ instead

But I'd like to learn ML for fun

[white relic]

This channel is for career advice and discussion

[dense urchin]

Oh

Sorry

[deft herald]

https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/470889390588035082/1371861494794420338

[dire summit]

wait why am i here lol

[buoyant seal]

in 98%+ Cases it means they are Javascript developer, that usually takes care of web frontend only.
And probably does through Javascript/Electron/React Native some desktop/mobile at some point too

[ivory narwhal]

how to get money pls

[peak halo]

programming isn't a get-rich-quick scheme. if you've just started programming, you're probably a few years away from earning any money doing it.

[vast shoal]

Go to school, then university, study computer science or some similar course, apply for internships

[ivory narwhal]

I dunno, I've been doing this as a hobby for 4 years now. Not looking for long term career stuff, just small jobs

[pine sleet]

you could try to do stuff on fiverr or upwork, but it'll be very difficult to make money there

i don't think CS is something you can just do on the side and make a bit of money unless you've already got something going

if you just want some extra money there are other ways to do that. like working fast food or retail part time

[peak halo]

the thing with programming is that anyone with a computer and internet access can learn and start doing it, so if you try to find jobs on Fiverr, you'll be competing with tons of people who had the same idea as you.

[digital fjord]

There's an amount of money to be made if you have connections to get freelance work. At least here, people do like giving work like this to friends and family members.

[ivory narwhal]

I mean, doing some web apps or small server backends for even some small money would be great

[vast shoal]

The thing with money is that everyone wants it and tries to get it all the time, so if there's an easy way to get it, there's gonna be ten thousand people doing it and it won't be easy anymore.

[digital fjord]

Apparently there's also a market for selling discord bots with no warranty.

[vast shoal]

Yeah, but there's ten thousand people with the same idea.

[peak halo]

you'd be competing with people who are probably willing to do it for even less money than you.

[ivory narwhal]

I will make you an OS for a dollar man

[vast shoal]

Nobody needs that many shitty web apps.

[vast shoal]

Who wants a dollar store OS? There is no market for that.

[ivory narwhal]

🤫 🧏

[vast shoal]

Linux is free.

[hazy hearth]

ест кто то русский?

[peak halo]

you say that now, but if you started, you'd realize that you're essentially working for free, and would instead use your free time doing something else.

[vast shoal]

!rule 4

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[digital fjord]

You could also look into open source bounty programs.

[stoic umbra]

You can always ask for donations at your projects but I doubt that would work for an good income

[woeful bone]

Finally landed a new engineering role after hunting for 3 months. Bad news, though...new company doesn't use Python 😭

[noble pagoda]

Is it real that cs has no future cuz im a 14 year old who dreams of being a cs major

[vast shoal]

Extremely doubtful.

[pine sleet]

it's not real

[woeful bone]

After the AI hype dies down a bit, there will be a demand for people who actually know how to program...like, they can sit at an editor and type code without an AI telling them what to do next

so, you should definitely learn how to use AI tools, but also practice coding without them so the concepts actually stick

[noble pagoda]

which language should i start on

im currently a day 1 python user i coded a calculator and a coinflip

[woeful bone]

any mainstream language is fine. Just stick with one for a while and learn the fundamentals. These will carry over into other language ecosystems

[vast shoal]

I don't think it's the AI hype that's causing job shortages

[woeful bone]

No, I don't think so either. But the AI hype is driving all the doom posting around careers in CS

[subtle radish]

#data-science-and-ml is the channel you're looking for

[subtle radish]

seems like it's more so due to a massive spike in the number of people entering the job market and also the advent of this whole vibe coding crap

many startups seem to be blindly implementing it

[vast shoal]

I highly doubt any vaguely serious company is making use of vibe coding.

It's much more likely a combination of decreased demand due to the economy and higher supply from expanded CS programs and bootcamps and the like.

[woeful bone]

I think the biggest factor is the large-scale layoffs that happened at the big companies after the post-covid downscaling

the competition for remote jobs right now is absolutely crazy

[vast shoal]

It's apparently somewhat true that AI is partly responsible for the job shortage after all, it seems like in the last year a lot of tech giants have shifted towards AI and LLM tech and infrastructure development, and have rebalanced their budgets by cutting down the workforce further.

Though post-covid downscaling and rising interest rates are also to blame.

[wraith harbor]

i think theres a chance that all these big tech companies may have wasted hundreds of billions on LLMs and there will be some kind of mass layoffs because of it

[peak halo]

the companies that are making these LLMs (Google, Meta) have virtually unlimited resources

[wraith harbor]

they are still subject to shareholders. if llms end up not being worth the investment shareholders will want layoffs

[ruby mortar]

How do I check python code for AI?

[austere flume]

Hello guys, how are you doing?

[peak halo]

What does it mean if python code "has" AI?

In either case, this is the career discussion channel. Try asking in #python-discussion

[ruby mortar]

Thx

[peak halo]

!warn 1371851005800742985 Advertising jobs is not allowed. Your message was removed.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @austere flume.

[remote moat]

is #career-advice the default channel for some reason?

my discord keeps going to it when i check on this server

[distant moat]

Guys

[long solar]

Guys

I heard cs jobs are crap rn but cybersec and ML roles arent

[long solar]

I will pay you $1 to make an entire operating system

[buoyant seal]

debatable.

I think ML is very meh, expensive (Videocards are and acquiring of data sets is very expensive and often moral gray), with lack of clear path how to make it quality, and average time of feedback devs get in ML is so large that it kills human lifetimes. I tried ML during my Master's degree
Some like ML nevertheless.

I think CS in general is interesting due to potential to make quality long term serving stuff.
I don't want ever investing into Javascript skills though, i think they are utter mess (as well as Ruby, PHP, Perl stuff). But if using quality languages (Golang, Java/Kotlin, .Net), with proper coding quality techniques, with finding right user chllanges to solve, amazing masterpieces can be made (like Minecraft or Starsector 😋 or dev tools like Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, Grafana monitoring stack)

[long solar]

I’m trying to specialize in ml. Just finished an ml course and going to be doing rl course + ml independent study under a prof, for my next (final) semester

[long solar]

Interesting opinions on what is an utter mess and what is quality and what is a masterpiece

Love me an opinionated answer

[buoyant seal]

Here is more towards how achieving it.
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
Invest into unit testing well (That is the most crucial part)

And build/extend your knowledge about writing architecture with auto testing in mind first as u go
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#HeadfirstDesignPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CleanArchitectureACraftsmansGuide
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#SystemsAnalysisandDesign

As long as u will be writing code with unit testing in mind in languages i mentioned, you are bound to get high quality, high performant result u can be often proud
As long as ...
As according to the article https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
U did proper reasearch of user community and built smth that people actually need. Book for sys analysis mentioned above is going towards same direction.

[long solar]

I’ve only recently started using pytest for my personal projects but they’re mostly integration tests

[buoyant seal]

or even just taking part in already existing great projects, extending them with needed new features (New Terraform Providers, new Kubernetes integrations, new Minecraft/Starsector mods). Easy in those languages to participate in already present high quality stuff

For me... there is Clear Visible Road where to go, where to move to bring user satisfaction at least

[buoyant seal]

As long as code is written with auto testing in mind, it gets benefits all around it in be more maintainable, readable, better structured, self documented, having rapid feedback, more refactorable for improvements. Good idea to invest well, and read Theory the one i recommended to understand its importance in full capacity
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
unit(and integration) testing makes the code... trusty enough to be working at all in avg case

[long solar]

I guess I gotta start using mocks more. Since a lot of stuff relies on apis and dbs

Skipping testing seems to just be technical debt

[buoyant seal]

mm, it is not about mocks to write unit testing?
You are just needing to structure code better to have separate functions/classes being testable without framework related stuff.
And in case of backend applications, i think no point to mock relational database related code, just use docker to raise it locally or testcontainers. it is controlled your own dependency and i think no point to consider it being integration testing at this point.

U should try to aim plugging your code at last possible moment into framework Bound code though. As after that it is usually tied and no longer testable in separate units
This book is more about it https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CleanArchitectureACraftsmansGuide

Mocks are usually last resort basically, to be used once u failed to structure your code better for testing code without mocks

[long solar]

Well I typically only made a chunk of code into its own function if it needed to be called more than once. Being able to unit test it is another factor to consider I guess

[vapid jay]

Seeing the current trend , does ai/ml engineers or software engineers or data scientist have good reach for jobs and internships?

[buoyant seal]

And skipping configuring proper monitoring is technical debt too for backend devs 😏
Things are much easier to debug when u have proper configured JSON logging, enriched by context
When u have metrics outputed regarding performance, status codes, types of errors your app encounters and u able to configure Dashboards and Alerts from them
And then u Unite it all with Tracing, and able to navigate from Metrics to Traces by Exemplars click in digarams, and from Traces to Logs and from Logs to Traces.
U are able to perceive your application from all angles and debug all problems easier when it is already running in production!

The black box of your application transforms into transparent box u can observe!

[long solar]

I was asking the same thing above, people will say "cs job market is bad", but what about ml and cybersecurity, rather than like web dev

[vapid jay]

My brother is doing btech with cs and I found that he finds it difficult to get internship in data science field even the students with 9.8 cgpa

[long solar]

Yeah this is awesome. Is that using loki?

[long solar]

in u.s.?

[buoyant seal]

Grafana, with Loki for logging, u see new Drilldown Logging interface they added to grafana.
Prometheus for metrics with exemplars 😋 to build dashboards
And Tempo for traces

[vapid jay]

India

[long solar]

Yeah idk if what is true for indian market would be true for my market. and vice versa

[modest kraken]

nobody cares about your gpa lol

[vapid jay]

Oh I see

[long solar]

I retook biology to try to get from 2.7 gpa to 3 lol

[modest kraken]

cooked 💀

[vapid jay]

Then?

[long solar]

and I'm retaking chemistry over the summer too

[modest kraken]

wdym "then"

[long solar]

Best I got rn is dagster letting me look at std out logs per job run and I can filter based on the tag like [error] or [info]. I was looking into grafana and loki though

[vapid jay]

If they don't care about gpa then what do they care about

[modest kraken]

Your work experience, skills you bring?

[long solar]

How many hours you've nolifed leetcode

[vapid jay]

Oh ok

[modest kraken]

only big companies do leetcode style interviews, and you need to have a good enough portfolio to even get the interview in the first place

[long solar]

Oh ok I'm only gonna apply to tiny companies then

[modest kraken]

lol but leetcode isnt that hard, just do it for a month or so before an interview if you get it

[long solar]

I can solve the problem but can't get the time complexity. My memory usage is always low af tho

[modest kraken]

whats "the" problem

[long solar]

Just leetcode in general

[modest kraken]

damn thats sad

[buoyant seal]

just count amount of Nested Loops over large bulks of data. Pretty much it will be the time complexity in avg case.
If to disregard that some of then could be better because they Log smth

[long solar]

youre saying Im cooked

[modest kraken]

just practice more

how many years have you been programming

[long solar]

Ive barely done any leetcode yeah. I'm a uni senior

[modest kraken]

yeah focus on developing your programming (not leetcode) skills for now

[long solar]

I think I have those skills and leetcode is my weakness

[buoyant seal]

say it every year, and u will never approach leetcode 😄

[modest kraken]

if you're good at programming you'll naturally become good at leetcode (or learning it will be a lot easier)

[long solar]

Well yeah learning the right answer makes sense when the answer is revealed but its not what I try the first time. I feel like I have to think outside the box if I'd wanna come up with it on my own

[modest kraken]

I think you're getting dunning-krugered here

[long solar]

So Im smart so I think im dumb

[modest kraken]

not "smart" and "dumb" but the other way around

[young salmon]

guys i finished 12th now what shld i learn

[long solar]

How long are you supposed to spend on one problem

[young salmon]

are there any computer related stuff i should learn before going to college

[modest kraken]

Basics, make a few projects before and during college

[buoyant seal]

There are different degrees of skills could be.
When u "got skills" people usually expect, u utilized those skills on large amount code bases in high load performant applications. And/or made libraries /contributed to related ecosystems

When just heard about smth in article / and made micro projects at most is not enough to qualify having a skill

[vague parcel]

Hi everyone!
Just dropping a message to say I’m open to assisting anyone working on interesting projects—especially researchers or professors working on papers.

I’ve built several AI projects and have been following the latest research developments in the space for quite some time. I genuinely appreciate the work engineers and researchers do for the community, and I’d love to give back by helping in any way I can.

I have a working understanding of many recent papers and am particularly interested in LLM research, especially where it intersects with reinforcement learning. I'm happy to contribute to anything—from brainstorming and coding to experimentation, implementation, or even the less glamorous parts like paperwork or debugging.

I don’t expect anything in return—just want to learn, connect with like-minded people, and be a part of the ecosystem. That said, I’d especially love the opportunity to work with researchers or professors on meaningful ideas.

Feel free to reach out if you’re interested or have any questions!

[long solar]

Well what makes something a micro project

[buoyant seal]

U spent less than a week of time+effort on it? Ut is small code sized (Below 5000 code lines for example?) and not very feature rich?
It is micro project.
Code lines effort is usually dangerous metric, but time+effort is good metric i think.
All student work is usually below micro projects.
If project remains used being by a single user (you only), usually it can be Micro Project forever

If it is smth u made in few hours and below few hundred code lines, usually it is Nano Project 😄

Significant projects take months of time and effort, providing continous Software Development Lifecycle to them
Released? Receive feedback for new desired features/bugs, advance, fix, Release again. Perpetually long living projects
Significant projects have users that use them.

[long solar]

I just work on one main project for like 2 years straight lol, sometimes with offshoot projects. Wish I had an hours counter but def over 1k total. Granted at the beginning of the 2 years I was kinda a noob. We can call it 1.5 yrs

[lilac yoke]

this is horrible advice

[lilac yoke]

you should be doing as much leetcode as possible, several problems a day. Go through the entire neetcode 75. Leading up to your interview, you should be doing the entire leetcode list for that company (you can find it free)

There’s a really good chance they ask one from the neetcode 75, id say 90% of mine have been

[long solar]

Yeah I think so too. Ive only done like 2 hrs of leetcode in my life because didnt have time to apply to jobs or prepare for interviews

[lilac yoke]

It’s very important. It’ll determine if you get the job or not. You can’t half solve problems, or not solve them and still get the job, you need to find the most optimal solution in 20ish minutes while explaining every step out loud

I’ve had interviews I spend 2 weeks doing 5+ hours of leetcode a day to prepare, and even then they can ask a problem that you fumble

Start as early as you can

[long solar]

Yeah I’ll start grinding out the neetcode 75, how long will it take to get through it

[lilac yoke]

Long. lol

If you don’t have an interview lined up, just take your time. Leetcode will get you through the interview but personal projects and networking get the interview

[modest kraken]

Why? You aren’t gonna get the interview nor actually be able to help the company if you don’t even have programming fundamentals

[tacit comet]

I mean if you're comfy with coding, leetcode's main difference is just time complexity

[mellow ice]

Idk if smashing your head against leetcode is good advice either.
At some point programming stops becoming just doing algorithms, and you have to build something that may not even involve complicated algorithms

[lilac yoke]

I agree, you should be working on personal projects. But the idea of "leetcode will come easy if you are a good programmer" is completely false. Leetcode has nothing to do with programming, the entire battle is creating a theoretical solution that works on paper, implementing it with code should only take a couple minutes. To be good at leetcode is to memorize tons of different algorithms, data structures and the way you can apply them to problems, to solve a brand new problem.

[mellow ice]

When I interview candidates, we have a quite simple task for the live coding interview.
We treat it as a pair programming session, and we look at if the candidate is able to think through the problem, if they invite to discussion, how they take feedback etc.
Being able to write code is only half of it, the candidate have to be a good fit personality wise also.

[modest kraken]

That’s why I said it would come easier, not that you’d be instantly good at it. There’s some overlap between dev work and leetcode

[tranquil storm]

As someone looking to pivot careers, I'll need to figure out how to even get into the interview.

So many applications for each position make it more challenging to stand out. Fortunately I have time to get there. I'm not in a rush.

[long solar]

I heard you gotta apply to 1k places now

[tranquil storm]

That's crazy

I feel as though there are better ways.

[lilac yoke]

There is very little imo, you can build a full stack application, scale with kubernetes, host on azure, but none of that will help you turn a memoization solution to dynamic programming, and optimize memory with a finite automata approach. Leetcode is generally very short solutions <100 lines.

[lilac yoke]

This is an ideal interview experience, but it's not the norm. Generally there is little to no leeway, if you fail a problem you do not make it to the next round, why would you when several other candidates passed it effortlessly.

[mellow ice]

And yet, all of those things can be looked up when you need them. Arriving to the conclusion to what you need is what’s interesting to me.

[mellow ice]

That’s why we have an easy problem, so we can focus on other aspects of the candidate when we meet them.

They’re also free to do it in whatever language they want

[long solar]

That's what I'm saying, especially in python, everythings already kinda done for you

[lilac yoke]

Leetcode is it's own skill. Getting interviews is hard enough, there's no such thing as overpreparing. You might get a nice interviewer like @mellow ice described, or get one that does not say a word to you the entire coding problem (I've been there... not even a response to "hows it going", just "heres the problem")

[lilac yoke]

this approach isn't great. You'll see better results by writing a good cover letter, making sure your resume covers every point they have in the job description, and asking for referrals on LinkedIn.

I probably applied to ~200 last school year, out of the 4 interviews I got all 4 were from that approach

[short talon]

Hello, everyone.
I am finding US based developer.
feel free to contact with DM.

[vast shoal]

Read the channel description, this is not a job board

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[mellow ice]

Yeah, if you have a poor CV and aren't networking.

[safe loom]

Hey y'all. I've seen a lot of doomposting over AI replacing us. I was wondering whether A) that was true and not just doomposting and B) what we can do as devs about it.

Especially since, if I wanna work as a data scientist, a STEM master degree is no longer enough it seems.

[white relic]

AI is not close to being able to replace a data scientist.
Degree inflation in the job market is real, but that has more to do with political and economic factors than AI.

[vapid jay]

@azure heart

Where can I find python job board

[azure heart]

LinkedIn? Upwork, Fiverr, etc

[white relic]

LinkedIn is a common place to find work.

[safe loom]

That goes for other IT jobs, right? Because so far I'm using tolls like free licences of Copilot to make sure my code stays consistent and sometimes for refactoring operations just in case I missed something.

That makes me think those tools can easily replace juniors and interns, as in, why even bothering paying them when I can just buy a ClaudeAI license and get the job done for cheaper?

[buoyant seal]

Even junior still can do job magnitudes times better. Ai is full of errors and brings so far application codes only to quick deaths
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qWJUWinWWnQ
Sales managers of AIs oversell it because it brings money for them

Shrugs. May be some day today will change, but this day is not today.

Just be better than negative valued intern level, and u will be ahead of it

[safe loom]

Lol this is me struggling with aligning <div> elements ||and understanding what's the best way to auth with React from an API backend too||

At least vibe coders don't take it seriously and are nowhere close to what devs do.

[white relic]

It goes for most jobs. LLMs are fundamentally limited in ways that people aren't. Even juniors and interns have more to bring to the table than just being able to put together syntactically correct code.

[buoyant seal]

I am very anti AI due to its bullshit generation nature, but sometimes do use though.

I find it useful to use as..

• More advanced form of search
• solving absolutely primitive thing that has no chance to be given wrong answer. Solution will be self validatable / I am able to have 100% confidence it will be correct
• generating names and ideas when I am completely stuck and out of ideas.

Exploring eventually when it is usable, already got burned in the process 😅
In almost all cases best to read official docs, git repos codes, books first

[white relic]

(Moreover, it is worth noting that internships are never worth the money for the company - even unpaid internships aren't offered because they are profitable - the point is that to get good senior developers somebody has to invest in the juniors.
There are companies that do better at this than others, and that has been true since long before the current generation of AI.)

[safe loom]

Absolutely true and I feel like I've been cut short in my career. Ever since I came back in my rural region I've been struggling to find a position, even in an IT consulting firm (they have the reputation to exploit a lot of ITs for low wages).

Overall, the messgae I got is that projects aren't invested upon, market can't be rebooted.

[safe loom]

I use Claude AI for well-built blank HTML templates with TailwindCSS because at least I know it's gonna be a testable on the fly copypaste of ShadCN and Flowbite's codebases.

[white relic]

That's unfortunate. I've always wanted to move back to the region I spent my childhood, but the economic reality is that it just isn't feasible. I've had to go where the jobs are

[safe loom]

Same here, and also I can't even rent in a big city. Too expensive.

[raw rapids]

I guess remote work is no option either?

[safe loom]

They are all opting for hybrid work and some banks require you to be present 5/5 days

[raw rapids]

mhn

[safe loom]

The worst part if you live in France: everything is centralized in Paris (approx 95% of all tech jobs). And the rent price there is insanely high.

[eager sail]

hi

[vast shoal]

Can you live in the outskirts and commute in? Or in nearby towns?

[safe loom]

I do. Though the recruiters don't trust me being able to do max 2h of travel everyday

[buoyant seal]

Point your location as Paris anyway. Problem solved 😏
Tell about 2h distance at last moment if necessary

[near ocean]

Surely you can move close enough where you dont pay crazy rent but still dont have to be 2h away

[safe loom]

I heard Airbnb can be a good solution for trial periods.

[raw rapids]

then move to another country?

Swiss has a French part and they pay well

[safe loom]

True, Switzerland is often considered as France's ElDorado when it comes to opportunities.