career-advice

[smoky quest]

And also got a relevant degree because a degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[dusk flume]

If you are a creative person and feel that you have the ability to create amazing games. Game Dev obviously.

If you have mathematical gifting and A+ problem solving skills. AI would be good.
I like what I read in this book (Artificial Intelligence by Russel & Norvdig) "AI still has opportunity for new Einsteins.

At the end of the day, it's your choice man.

[brazen island]

This is apples and oranges. I’m in ML/AI and I didn’t consider game dev at all. I picked what I find interesting. So should you, and it seems that that’s game dev for you

[normal estuary]

What is the ACTUAL salary ranges of a software Engineer (Specifically in Australia)

[kindred oyster]

depends on experience and domain

you should be able to do a survey using hiring sites for your local area/area where you want to work

[viral peak]

Can I pick both?

would that be beneficial or just focusing on one?

[brazen island]

If you're interested in both, why not

[viral peak]

I meant to say more separatly, like making indie games and also doing ML projects

[median meadow]

NOTE: i will be putting the question(s) at the very beginning as a tl;dr, the rest of the message is just context should you require it. I don't really need long or thought out answers, i just want a real human being ive interacted with to tell me what all these videos are telling me.

Q1: I have literally zero experience, i want to get into programming because my job doesn't make enough money, i'm interested in automation, i have ADHD and listening to people lecture me about syntax and whatever is impossible i will literally fall asleep, anyone have recommendations on how to start learning this particular niche in a way that's engaging?

Q2: AI seems to be a big topic in coding nowadays. I've noticed especially with the recent claude 3.5 stuff, AI is just going to be flat out better than me at coding for a good while. I'm scared to use it as an assistant to my learning because i don't want to rely on a crutch, but also i know many programmers use it to program more efficiently, any tips to using AI to learn?

Apologies in advanced for the huge wall of text, but I have a question that maybe some of you more experienced programmers could answer.

I'm a complete beginner to python/coding in general, genuinely zero experience. I studied international business (a little bit of everything business related tbh) and ive worked jobs in sales, quality assurance (for a university), and a lot of general administration work. I genuinely feel like nothing im doing will get me anywhere, and i wanted a niche or an actual skill i could start developing, so i thought programming.

ive done a lot of research on what kinds of programming niches there are, how to learn, what tutorial hell is, what kinds of resources are out there, what courses and stuff are recommended by a lot of people, there's a shit ton of information out there, but i feel like ive been tugged in so many directions and i still can't figure out a way to learn that works for me.

I have ADHD, executive dysfunction is something i struggle with to an extreme degree, ive been sitting here reading about starting to learn programming without ever starting essentially for the past two months. I guess another issue is that i also dont even know what i want to do. I absolutely love my current day job, but it makes basically no money, and having a monetary motivation for learning programming is also stunting me figuring out what i want to do with it.

The only thing im particularly interested in, is automation. Making scripts to do things for me either better or faster than i can, or just generally removing labor intensive activities. Whether that be to make my job easier, or control certain applications on my computer without me being there, etc. I also somewhat believe that there's a decent monetary incentive for this kind of programming.

The whole AI stuff also scares me, ive watched some videos about claude 3.5 essentially writing a bunch of code that i know i wont be able to do for a long time until i learn everything properly. It feels a bit discouraging, it kinda feels like by the time i learn to become proficient enough to freelance or get a job with programming, AI is going to be continuously improving where im still not better than it and im just obsolete, lol. That's probably just me dooming, but that shit is getting powerful really quickly and i dont know if i can keep up with it? I also don't know how to effectively use it without stunting my learning. I don't want it to be a crutch. I also still want to be able to use tools like that to be able to code faster and more efficiently, because i know programmers in my company that are very talented but obviously still use AI to figure things out and optimize their code. They already have all the fundamentals down though, i don't, so i don't know where AI should come in.

[peak halo]

I don't have any suggestions about making it through university with ADHD.
As far as using AI tools to learn to code: I don't recommend it. When you're learning the fundamentals of a language, or how to use documentation to learn a new library, you're most likely to make your own breakthroughs and retain what you've learned when you arrive at the correct code on your own. When you become experienced, you can use generative AI to write boilerplate code or automatically refactor stuff.

[median meadow]

Oh i'm not in university, i have a day job and im just learning programming online in my free time at home through lectures on udemy atm. Thanks for the advice on the AI though, i figured as much. I'll try to avoid it while learning then, that makes sense!

[harsh river]

(also avoid w3schools as a learning resource)

[median meadow]

never heard of that so i guess that's good haha

[rugged lark]

wait why so? never used it

[median meadow]

after a short google search apparently they've spread misinformation/had inaccurate learning material

[rain quartz]

Is it still worth it studying computer science?

[rugged plume]

Yes, the degree is still valuable. However if you have to go into significant debt to obtain it then you may need to find alternative options

[rain quartz]

I heard that companies hire people with high problem solving skills instead of people who only can code.If that’s the case then how do I improve problem solving?

[near ocean]

how would you solve software problems without knowing how to code?

[rain quartz]

My bad for writing a question without enough context.

[rugged plume]

You need to learn how to code in a few languages (Python is of course a great starting language as its incredibly popular and semi beginner friendly) and then see how it can solve problems. For me I work as a Network Engineer and python is good to help automate certain tasks which helps solve problems with scalability for instance

[rain quartz]

Thanks for the tip I will keep it in mind.And another thing,I hope O.O.P gets deleted complicated crap ever

[harsh river]

hm, it makes complex things simpler in my experience
but sometimes it can become a monster, yeah

[long nebula]

Cool thing for pygame

[pine sleet]

do a computer science program where you will do a lot of math. Math is typically a good way to learn new ways of problem solving and practicing those methods

[astral fable]

Alrr thx

Yeah man I love making money + been learning python for 4 years now

What if for my senior year, I take a mix of both? Like maths, physics, Buissness studies and computer science @deft herald

[astral fable]

Bro coding is like the fundamental of computer science like how addition, subtraction, multiplication, division is to maths… Even if you don’t want to be a coder you still need to learn how to code

[buoyant seal]

Q1: I have literally zero experience, i want to get into programming because my job doesn't make enough money, i'm interested in automation, i have ADHD and listening to people lecture me about syntax and whatever is impossible i will literally fall asleep, anyone have recommendations on how to start learning this particular niche in a way that's engaging?

i am not having ADHD (probably), but listening to lectures i fall asleep in a matter of few minutes too. I got dissapointed by lectures since my studies in universities very reliably and just can't consume such type of material unless it is some fun stuff.
I managed to be not present for 95%+ of lectures in university during my time there and graduate it with master's degree 😄
I have perfect self studies by text ways. Read 1-2 books on subject to jump start my experience and orientation, get to practice, use official documentation, official (the official part is important often enough) tutorials, practice in pet projects, read more books, path like that

[vapid jay]

Hello guys

[buoyant seal]

Q2: AI seems to be a big topic in coding nowadays. I've noticed especially with the recent claude 3.5 stuff, AI is just going to be flat out better than me at coding for a good while. I'm scared to use it as an assistant to my learning because i don't want to rely on a crutch, but also i know many programmers use it to program more efficiently, any tips to using AI to learn?
i guess not. i as a dev for now keeping strategy of not using this AI, and from time to time experimenting for its usage where it helps me, and it does help me by giving laundered images or some naming ideas, but for coding itself i haven't discovered yet how it is supposed to help 😄 i even experimented its usage to figure out physics questions too.
The problem is... everything AI says is lie by default unless proven otherwise. So... the materials it gives are very hard to rely upon for me. TLDR:... for me it is on going process to discover how AI can be useful, finding applications. Haven't found definitive answers yet in this area

[hybrid sage]

what career is good for me if I like factorio and the automation aspect of it? i also like the linux terminal and type commands on it

[vapid jay]

what should I do

[buoyant seal]

ive done a lot of research on what kinds of programming niches there are, how to learn, what tutorial hell is, what kinds of resources are out there, what courses and stuff are recommended by a lot of people, there's a shit ton of information out there, but i feel like ive been tugged in so many directions and i still can't figure out a way to learn that works for me.

The only thing im particularly interested in, is automation. Making scripts to do things for me either better or faster than i can, or just generally removing labor intensive activities. Whether that be to make my job easier, or control certain applications on my computer without me being there, etc. I also somewhat believe that there's a decent monetary incentive for this kind of programm

there are in general next type of job roles of software development:

• Backend development (web related)
  • This role is extendable into Data engineering as far as i am (ML is somewhere there after that)
  • DevOps engineering, infrastructure as a code system administration is proceeded somewhere here
• Frontend development (web related)
• Desktop development
• Mobile development
• Embedded development
• System administration (web related again, but can be manual dealing with Windows and basically just a step from Help Desk support)
• Quality assurance (again web related usually, but can be for desktop/mobile too i guess)
• You know math
  • And can go Data science stuff
  • somewhere hear synergizing Data engineering to make possible ML
  • and ML somewhere there

So... if we remove overly specialized stuff, or low quality stuff, we could say that in general picking could be made between Web Front (dealing with web guis) or Web Backend (dealing with servers), or Desktop applications or Mobile applications (Android, Ios)
those are i think the most common applications of development for which large amount of jobs can be found?
Question be what u appreciate more here

There should be more software development stuff, but as far as i noticed it is all in majority concentrates for which platform target

• For linux servers
• for web front
• for desktop windows (can be cross platform oriented 😋 )
• for mobile ios
• for mobile android
  you develop

depending on platform target it influences strongly which tech stack, programming languages you are common to wield accordingly

literally job vanacies ask for devs like that: Searching for mobile android, or for backend dev language bla bla bla

[vapid jay]

I want goth dominant girlfriend who will periodicaly beat me up but also cuddle and kiss me so she will trauma bond me

[buoyant seal]

The only thing im particularly interested in, is automation. Making scripts to do things for me either better or faster than i can, or just generally removing labor intensive activities. Whether that be to make my job easier, or control certain applications on my computer without me being there, etc. I also somewhat believe that there's a decent monetary incentive for this kind of programming.
pretty much any software development job role is about it. Some more than other.
Any neat crafted program by dev for any platform target can do it.
devops engineers here take a special role in usually automating stuff for other devs and themselves to have less manual stuff in addition 😄
but otherwise yeah... any devs automate stuff
As backend dev i write some library for other backend devs, wrote recently feature to autogenerate openapi documentation for it. thus automated manual labor too.
and majority of my pet projects in the same backend/cli capacity is about automations too.
Programming is literally a tool to automate stuff 😄
So majority of job roles will fit here for this direction i think

Mostly a question with which languages u wish to work with, and which platform targets in my opinion
it will influence a big fluff of technologies u will be knowing around the chosen subject

[median meadow]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to each part of my message! I really appreciate it and i value all the information you gave me ☺️

I figure you are right in saying its basically all automation one way or another, i guess i want to focus more on desktop applications, more backend stuff.

I work in a company where our programmers are using c# for our game, but I’m more interested in python at the moment because it’s what I’ve read the most about.

I want to also transition into lua potentially. But i want to master a language first

What got me interested in coding in the first place was AHK, which surprisingly i never see anyone talk about

I feel python is the closest to that haha

[buoyant seal]

I used AHK when I was teenager playing computer games which required sometimes a bit of automations 🙂
Very limited in its usages

I saw Lua used only for internal game scripting. In Avorion and in Minecraft. But never saw its usage as standalone general purpose language.
Coded a bit from within Minecraft itself on built computers inside of it. I understood that I never wish to do it 😄 because it had long time for feedback and I did not wish to learn coding with it efficiently (not seen usages beyond Minecraft).
Lack of static typing discouraged me significantly too.

Python yes is general purpose language u can do a lot of stuff with.

[indigo ivy]

Does anyone knows any content creator in github that has complex projects so i can see how they look like

[buoyant seal]

I value a lot developer comfort, ability to develop with the most rapid feedback as u change smith, and having it auto validated with most minimum effort. Lua is just not there for me (also Lua is just not general purpose language in my opinion, not usable as standalone)

I need typing(perfectly static typing, but I can survive with gradual typing), visual debugger, preferably multi level good structured logging and unit testing to work efficiently

[median meadow]

Yeah lua has very niche uses.

Roblox, minecraft, ffxiv, many games use lua scripting for mods on the games. Thats something that interests me since i was a child which is why i want to try it.

I wonder if python can be used for the same purpose instead, but lua is made for these specific cases.

regardless i think if i learn python then lua will be much easier

[hybrid sage]

what does devops actually do? It sounds so corporate

[mellow bison]

Does anybody here have specific open-source projects in mind that need development so I could get more experience? Also, does anybody here know about some good places to advertise for my tech startup?

[kindred oyster]

!contributing

[inner wren]

Contribute to Python Discord's open source projects

Looking to contribute to Open Source Projects for the first time? Want to add a feature or fix a bug on the bots on this server? We have on-going projects that people can contribute to, even if you've never contributed to open source before!

Projects to Contribute to

• Sir Lancebot - our fun, beginner-friendly bot
• Python - our utility & moderation bot
• Site - resources, guides, and more

Where to start

1. Read our contribution guide
2. Chat with us in #dev-contrib if you're ready to jump in or have any questions
3. Open an issue or ask to be assigned to an issue to work on

[buoyant seal]

devops engineers have two sets of definition what they do.

the first one, the pseudo devops which is very common => it is just System Administrator that manages infrastructure not just with manual actions to deploy smth, but uses tools for infrastructure as a code. Docker, Ansible, AWS tooling, terraform, kubernetes

the second one, more true devops engineer is the only with software developer good enough background (backend development is common for that). He operates with infrastructure as a code tool as the first type, but tries to make it maintainable, and automates all the manual aspects he sees. He adheres to make the resulting infrastructure good osbservable, reliable, autoscalable and all without human effort to maintain it so. He will invents custom glue where he sees its justification to make it all running smoothly. if necessary he will write its own web gui interface to simplify smth for other devs and etc.
The main goal of a devops engineer to make software development of projects company easier to do. Natural result of devops engineering work => to have less need in manual operational actions and in system administrators.

we could clarify here that devops is actually having its own cultural meaning, but too long to explain it.

[civic thistle]

helllo i made an app on android who wants to try it

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rum.chat.free

[loud iris]

Hi, does anyone have feedback for my resume? 3Yoe Full Stack developer. 150 apps, only 1 callback.

• Does it focus more on task than business impact?
• Does it have any business impact?
• Is it too bland/vague?
• Are bulletpoints not specific enough?
• Not enough metrics?
• Too flowery/inflated?

[muted bridge]

not an expert by any means but there is a LOT of whitespace

also I typically see people keep their job entries to about 2-5 bullet points

that and there’s no coding projects in there, good way to erase some of the whitespace

for a fullstack dev I would def have a project that heavily highlights frontend skills and one that heavily highlights backend skills, or both if you prefer

[loud iris]

What about the actual bulletpoints content? Is it fine

[muted bridge]

Not a fullstack engineer, but I’m sure they look fine, the format is good at least

I do think that more is worse when it comes to bullet points though, and a recruiter is likely looking at that job entry and rolling their eyes

if your projects are lacking I would see if there’s anything from your job that you can extract as a stand-alone project

[fast fossil]

No, this isn't a place to advertise yourself, but rather ask for career advice, for example, where to look for jobs
This server is not that place, the usual suggestions are UpWork and Fiverr, but do keep in mind that the competition in freelancing is really fierce

[scenic inlet]

Alright, thank you for the response

[shell flume]

are companies even hiringf?

[harsh river]

yes.

[sick ocean]

Hi everyone, new to python. I have decided to walk toward learning python as my first language and get certified. Does the certification help you land a programming job as entry level?

[near ocean]

Not really, who is certifying you?

[fast fossil]

As far as the advice here goes, no, such a certificate would be completely useless.
Typically you'd want to get a degree in CS
If that's not possible you can try working your way up from a related position, such as help desk or QA or similar

[pine sleet]

no

[sick ocean]

@pine sleet well it's going to have to lol. I have 10 years experince but I'm leaving hardware for software foe more flexible work plus I can bid lower than the experienced programmers 😁

[pine sleet]

thats good. you can use your previous experience to pivot in

[sick ocean]

@pine sleet thank you super python programmer

[fringe sphinx]

You kinda left out the important part then 🙂

[jovial bear]

Y'all what's good

[tidal sage]

@jovial bear does this solve your problem

[jovial bear]

I didn't ask for a solution to anything.... It's just a greeting

[sick ocean]

@fringe sphinx I should of included the 10 years of IT experince in the initional question. I apologize about that. ADHD sometimes kicks in sometimes it's on ultra high

[golden jetty]

Rate my cv 1 to 10

[harsh river]

so, can you expand more on your experience with SQLight?

[whole flare]

Is the Certificates section really necessary?

[golden jetty]

its just a simple sql database

[rugged plume]

I'd give it a 6 depending on what you're going for. Like IlluminatiFish is going for. Certifications don't really mean much of anything in the developer/programing world. Certifications really only hold significant weight in the IT side of things when it comes to being on a resume. That being said, there are some DevOps/Automation like certifications that could be cool to have for Network Automation like the Cisco DevNet associate, however its not a super popular cert so I'd just remove that section.

Personally you should keep the resume down to a single page unless you're midlevel in your career. Take your personal info and see about condensing it to a single line and you'll likely want to add month duration to your resume to each spot

[golden jetty]

oof

[rugged plume]

Also since you're currently enrolled in uni and not graduated, you should probly put a IN PROGRESS to it so it shows you don't have the degree yet

[golden jetty]

certifications are a cruicial part of my resume sine i dont have any employement job experience, only freelancing projects

[rugged plume]

If you're automating tasks, you can display the potential value save with it should that be the angle you want to go through. Lemme give an example

You automate a 5 minute task that every one of your coworkers has to do each day on a team of 12 people. That's 60min of work time you've saved per day across the team. Say the company pays an average of $25 an hour for the team, assuming a 5 day per week 40/hr week then you get $6,500 saved in automation for the year from just that one task alone. Putting some numbers behind your impact can help show non technical staff your potential value.

[rugged plume]

Are people hiring for those certificaitons though? That's half the reason to get a certification is that people are wanting it.

And are these certs you have to take a legit exam outside of some training course and pass? Or is it a test after you take a course on LinkedIn or some other e-learning site?

[golden jetty]

thats a great idea

contains small digital exam after a short course

its more of a + on my cv

[rugged plume]

Imo that's doesn't sound like it doesn't really have much of a value cert, especially if jobs aren't hiring it then idk how it adds any value to your resume.

Especially if to obtain the cert you don't even need a full testing environment for something like a more serious cert doing through PearsonVue

I don't mean to come across as harsh, but since you're still in the beginning phases of your career, having more than one page is seen as a determent. It usually isn't until you start gearing up for Sr Engineer or Manager roles that you want to go over that point when you're 5 years in

[deft plaza]

hey guys, what can a freshman CS major who has absolutely no experience or projects do to land their first internship

[golden jetty]

I will try to shrink it down to a page, but its unlikely that i would be able to do that without making it part of the true representation of my skillset

[harsh river]

but, it doesn't exist, did you use chatgpt for this?

[rugged plume]

Well you're going to want to shrink some spacing, maybe drop the font size down a little. Collapse all your socials/info at the top below your name to a single line. You can double/triple bullet point for the languages for example

[golden jetty]

damn, thanks for noting that one out. I meant SQLite, i havent used it in a while

[deft herald]

If you wouldn't be able to answer any technical questions about it during an interview, you probably shouldn't have it on your resume

[true harness]

make projects

[deft plaza]

Thank you so much for the feedback! Here is my first project: https://paste.pythondiscord.com/VYWQ

[deft plaza]

What kinds of projects should I work on next that would stand out?

[harsh river]

!kindling we have some ideas here

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[deft plaza]

how many quality projects should I have before I build my resume and portfolio and start applying for internships?

[true harness]

0ish. you should build your resume while building your projects, and apply continuously

[deft plaza]

Do you think it is too late for summer 2025 for me?

[true harness]

it is a bit late, but could still happen. tbh, an internship freshman year is not that important

[deft plaza]

if I don't get an internship this upcoming summer, what other things could I get involved in that would look good on my resume/give me experience (other than doing projects)

[harsh river]

become involved in clubs in your college, join leadership positions, be active.

[pastel quail]

you could join a research lab at your university over the summer

[smoky quest]

local charities/groups can also be a thing

[median meadow]

Take this with a grain of salt because i’m a business major but, honestly an internship shouldnt be your concern freshman year, thats year 3/4 stuff.

Your first years need to have participation in events, clubs, charities, volunteering, it doesnt have to be at your college or university either. You can look for external resources for those.

It’s just important that you’re active, almost every university student on the planet is taking their degree and just their degree, showing that you’ve been actively doing things outside of your curriculum looks really good, especially if it’s valuable experience.

[median meadow]

@deft plaza Also don’t underestimate the power of building your portfolio, you could spend the entire time just developing projects and it could do wonders for you.

You’re a freshman, you’re still learning and probably have nothing to show yet, do projects especially ones that you’re interested in. They dont have to be super impressive, just do things you find fun. That’s really important early on so you build a positive foundation for your degree and it doesnt get boring really fast.

[radiant swan]

hello

[hybrid sage]

Its so weird to have a culture around a job lol. Also, what does "infrastructure" mean?

[buoyant seal]

ergh... culture is not exactly around the job, devops originally just meant a bit entirely different thing.
that job was named devops engineer is kind of... anecdote by accident a bit. Recruiters just named it so, so it stuck like that

[buoyant seal]

i mean server infrastructure usually. Ergh... devops engineering ifnrastructure as a code tool can automate all actions with cloud provider to setup linux servers, container scheduling systems, databases (in whatever way they are configured, as managed from cloud provider or as some kind of self hosted solution), dns records, cdn, firewalls, different network configurations and etc
It could include level of automation up to CI/CD integration with your git repository, so that applications would auto build themselves and autodeploy on merging to master into staging environment 😏 and on some extra actions would deploy themselves to production on its own after verification from human

TLDR: infrastructure around cloud provider and linux servers basically usually, and all related infra objects

windows servers are heavily frowned upon, not used, and not automatable usually.

through all this level of automation you can achieve usually reliable infra, with some autoscaling, autohealing/autorestarting properties with correctly configured limits for CPU/RAM against memory leaks and other problems

and usually if u face any problem with new app versions... you could just easily rollback to previous version instead of dealing with difficulties (at least if u configured things smart)

[hybrid sage]

This sounds complicated, not gonna lie

[buoyant seal]

it is in some capacities simpler than it sounds, but still devops engineers are rather rare. or at least they are very rare with strong dev skills
majority of people tends to be not really liking dealing with infrastructure problems, they find them.... i dunno, not able to read documentation/dealing with linux servers/not having any desire dealing with infra problems 🤷‍♂️

[buoyant seal]

average backend/web related dev just should learn docker throughly. as it will enhance their dev environment greatly. docker compose is really useful to raise quickly databases for testing

also docker alone is good enough solution for simple deployment with a lot of iac benefits. App building will be documented, and if wishing frozen for reusage in docker registry
docker alone unlocks easy deploying application in a single command 😋

[hybrid sage]

Can i start as a sys admin then pivot to devops?

[buoyant seal]

sure. that's a common path. I would recommend if u can to do backend development though first before diving into devops.
devops has dev in it, with dev type of... skills u will be able to be devops engineer in full capacity

otherwise... pseudo devops engineers just for iac skills are in demand too (which is basically sys admin+ with iac stuff)

[hybrid sage]

What type of backend? Backend for what?

[buoyant seal]

backend i mean... web backend development, commonly known for working rest api and relational databases to code smth.
python world uses Django/Fastapi/Flask frameworks, and common to use Sqlite3/Postgresql database
when working with it, dev commonly write unit test with pytest to receive average commercial quality
enhancable with other fluff of technologies 😋 Celery is very nice for background execution of tasks in horizontal scalable way

[buoyant seal]

the interesting part with backend that it is deployed to linux servers, usually commonly deployed by docker
and uses all the other possible infra related stuff as wished 😄

[tawny ferry]

Hello

[covert iris]

What would you consider the best approach towards proving your proficiency and using it to land a role? Contributing to open source projects or building projects? Personally, I have a hard time coming up with project ideas that are "different". I have found that I am better at making contributions or solving problems that others come up with.

Essentially, I am not good at coming up with some project other than the usual stuff people do like todo app, tcp chat, etc. I can do those things but I don't find them interesting enough to put on my github. This year, I have made quite a number of contributions to other projects. Much more than I would do on my own.

I freelance most of the time but that seems to be drying up and most of the work I have been doing are things I would never have thought of. I mean, I am proud of the solution and the clients are happy but I would never have come up with some of those ideas myself.

[fringe sphinx]

Best is tough, because it also depends on your abilities and interests. But, long running contributions or involvement in OSS projects that interest you is a good signal for your resume: if it's for the right reasons (doing it cynically to pad a resume is rarely helpful). Contributions doesn't mean it has to be code either; even finding / reporting bugs is helpful.

[finite mortar]

Hello, I have a question, I am a Junior Backend developer, I'm searching for a remote job, But I am a little bit confused. what are the best ways to find an online job? also do I have a chance with little experience?

[peak halo]

so you're employed currently? how many years (or months) of experience do you have? and what country are you in?

[finite mortar]

Currently I'm not employed, Previously I had a 6 months internship (Spring boot) and I live in Lebanon

[peak halo]

I do not have the requisite knowledge to give you useful advice. Hopefully someone else here can.

[dry yoke]

Lebanon is in war rit?

[finite mortar]

true but not in my area

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> is this a crime

[languid mist]

No what

Not in a weird way I'm 13 I'm lf PPL my age

[radiant vortex]

hi, this isn't the place to advertise

[languid mist]

Dude not advertising I just wanna talk and build projects with them

[near ocean]

We dont do that in #career-advice

[radiant vortex]

again, not in this server

[languid mist]

Oh ok then

[radiant vortex]

thanks

[languid mist]

Mb gng

[chrome cedar]

Hoping anyone has any advice on finding fully remote positions in the US
AWS was great but with the current requirement of being in the office 3x a week even if your team is in a different office (or even different state or timezone) ontop of some general stuff, I want to jump ship - but I can't find anywhere that has the same salary with fully remote positions that also aren't startups / VC's

I know it's very privileged to go "I want as much money as I make in FAANG but also WFH" but the money is more so that I can support my family. My mom is near retirement age without much in her savings / retirement funds, and my younger brother lives in his own apartment while finishing college

[whole flare]

Certifications may also be useful in the cybersec side of things.

[rugged plume]

Sure, but not those specifically. I'm a Network Engineer where certs do count for a fair bit, but not all certs hold the same weight

[whole flare]

Of course, some certs are viewed differently compared to others. I was just going to mention that cybersec also has a very heavy certification culture akin to IT, at least from my perspective.

[rugged plume]

Oh absolutely and reputation counts for a lot. CEH shows up on alot of Cybersec postings, but doesn't have a good reputation in the community

[whole flare]

CEH

[rugged plume]

lol

For me there's two factors to consider if a certification is useful. The first is if any jobs are actually looking for this certification to where you're more likely to land an interview with it on your resume. The second is if the cert has a good reputation for testing the material you're supposed to have learned.

[fleet imp]

hey, i wanted to ask about the docs of a programming language.

my prof gave us the following as an extra thing we could look into:
https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/branch.html

and i knew the 2 types of return statements already, but the 2 types of break and continue statements are new to me.

will i have to actually read huge sections of documentations on the job all the time or something? i mean i've never seen ANYONE use this thing, but it's very useful to know. i mean idk how i would've known about it unless she taught it or unless i read the entire docs looking for stuff myself

[near ocean]

Yes you will, you'll do a lot of reading on the job and most of it will be technical documentation

[fleet imp]

but then how will i get anything done? also i saw the python3 docs and a lot of other docs, and those are just not human-readable most of the time. when they are, there is still a sort-of bottomless pit of information

[rugged plume]

And that's anywhere in tech not just programming languages. As a Network Engineer I read documentation from vendors like Cisco, Juniper, and Nokia. All the technical documentation lol

You have to manage your time to be effective

[near ocean]

it is what it is
maintaining documentation is a huge endeavour and obviously some do it better than others
py docs isnt that good

[fleet imp]

and im alright with filtering information id say, but the docs are just so complex to me, and there are no guides or tutorial or how-to's to navigate them

[near ocean]

but where else are you supposed to get this information? there sure arent gonna be youtube tutorials about this

[rugged plume]

Huge facts, Juniper documentation for example is really damn good, but Cisco's is atrocious at times

[true harness]

the usual method is to read the docs until you know how to do what you want

[near ocean]

python docs especially needs overhauling, but take a look at rust docs for example

[fleet imp]

but even then it's like a maze, even with specific packages and libraries i used it was always such a huge pain, and they write in incomprehensible language

example: https://docs.python.org/3/library/profile.html

this libary's doc sucks, it's so hard to understand it, and there aren't any examples almost anywhere

i mean for https://docs.python.org/3/library/profile.html#module-cProfile

[near ocean]

you know what they say, be the change you want to see in the world (PRs welcome)

[hybrid sage]

hows docs for rust?

[true harness]

very good imo. but isn't this off topic now?

[hybrid sage]

probably but 1 off topic message isnt something to overblow

[wispy rampart]

One way I've solved the "experience" issue when it comes to job interviews is to create my own experience by building tons of apps for different industries and working my way through the issues that come up.

[near ocean]

What do you mean you create your own experience? You list personal projects under work experience?

[wispy rampart]

Yes. As well as my actual experience, but if I'm working at one company in one industry, I could lack experiences that could come up in other industries, so I list my 9-5 but also the experiences I've created through personal projects.

[rugged plume]

Eh I'd say that's tricky cause its a different thing for you building something from the ground up as a small to medium sized app, to working on a longstanding project with legacy code that people need to hire for

[near ocean]

I dont think thats advisable, its deceiving to be listing personal stuff under work experience

Work experience means someone valued your skills enough to pay for your time using them

[wispy rampart]

Another method I've used is to download a github repo created by a dev with 10 years of experience, study it to understand the logic and reasoning and then technically I've gained at least the mind of a dev with 10 years of experience.

[harsh river]

i saw some guy make like 20 basic apps and then stated he had been the "founder of 20 startups and drove them to completion" before moving on

[wispy rampart]

Well, there is "professional experience" then there is experience.

[near ocean]

Experience means professional experience

[near ocean]

Shitposting is not appreciated in this channel

[fringe sphinx]

Generally when I see 'founder', I see it as a negative. Reasons are complicated, but it's usually for the reason you mentioned.

(It's also emphasizing the wrong thing, for most roles)

[harsh river]

one of his "startups" was a food tracker.

went on to talk about how he quickly came up with the idea, pushed a working product within weeks (heavily emphazising velocity and skill) and then moved on.

[fringe sphinx]

This logic is similar to people who use AI to build their projects, confusing the result with the learning.

[wispy rampart]

Why couldn't I list my personal projects (which could be fully functional applications/products) under work experience? Maybe we are defining something differently.

[near ocean]

Because youre not employed for them

[wispy rampart]

I have an LLC?

[near ocean]

Also i kind of doubt you build fully functioning products by "studying the code of 10year exp devs and somehow assimilating their knowledge
Youre not the Borg

[wispy rampart]

Isn't that the same affect as reading a book on a subject, implementing it by building something, and calling that experience? I'm lost.

[near ocean]

Thats not what you said
You cant just read the C book and suddenly have the knowledge of brian kernighan

[wispy rampart]

Of course, but I'd at least have the knowledge he shared on C. And maybe enough to use it to implement.

[rugged plume]

Well just cause you read a book doens't mean you absoarbed and fully understand 100% of it. Especially only on the first read through

[wispy rampart]

Sure thing. I personally feel like the proof can be in the pudding. If I tell an interviewer I can do all of this stuff that's one thing, but if I show them, what can they say?

[torpid remnant]

You guys have any recommended MacBooks I should get?

[harsh river]

!offtopic ask in any of these 3

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[torpid remnant]

Thanks

[fast fossil]

he probably meant "start apps" as in like beginner apps and stuff...

[upper oracle]

what are some of the best python projects for freshers, than should cover DSA.

[fringe sphinx]

Start here:

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[upper oracle]

@fringe sphinx

[earnest sand]

Oh, this channel is better... So

I'm here because I want info on programming/developing market. I am Brazilian and I want to work outside, like USA, Canada, Netherlands, United Kingdom... I don't know how to do so. My plan now is doing a 3 years technologist college with some Coursera courses to help. Is that the right thing to do? I want a 5 digits salary, and maybe work on Ubisoft (I dream about that haha).

[pine sleet]

you will want a bachelor's degree in computer science or whatever the equivalent is in brazil. im not sure waht a "technologist college" is but a bachelors is usually a 4 year program

[earnest sand]

Looks like it's really hard to find a good one here in Brazil... At least in my city. My friends are telling me about cases where they pay off the education ministery here, and some colleges that don't teach you nothing or have no respect outside here

And guess I can't have a bachelor yet...

[pine sleet]

yeah i'm not really sure what to do on that front. i'd say just get the equivalent of a bachelors from an accredited institution, its better than nothing. alternatively you can also try to apply to american universities as an international student

[sand patio]

hm, what about studying in the U.S.? Is that a feasible option for you?

[pine sleet]

i dont think recruiters are really going to know if the university you go to is "bad" as you say, especially if it's not even in the country

they're just going to expect you to have the baseline knowledge that any other cs student does so it'll just be up to you to learn all of that

[earnest sand]

No... I would need too much money to travel and live there

Unless if I can learn from computer...

[earnest sand]

Oh, yeah... I'm afraid the problem isn't "university being bad", but they not knowing it's good... Y'know

[olive token]

What if i starT Coding/Python at 13 Yo?

[deft herald]

Then there'd be a 13 year old who knows how to code in python

[olive token]

im Learning i started coding on my birthday on 20 October the Day i turned 13

[pine sleet]

great 👍

[olive token]

i started a day before only but from them was Better one

[deft herald]

Cool. What have you learned so far?

[olive token]

What do i tell you i tell the projects i have made?

See the projects i made was once see once and write then later i coded without seeing

[deft herald]

🤷 sure

[olive token]

.

[deft herald]

what?

[olive token]

Actually now

I got a Python Course Following it

11 Hours and also an 100 days ill follow it and then continue after making other Projects

[deft herald]

Cool. Do you feel like you understand it all so far?

[olive token]

Any tips?

[olive token]

Yea i think so. Like it doesn't feel like i dont know anything

[deft herald]

What kind of projects have you made?

[olive token]

im an Intermediate Developer i say this to me but idk am i really?

I haven't made Complex Projects yet

[deft herald]

I think that's a very generic term that honestly doesn't mean anything, haha

[olive token]

but i have made some Simple Projects as ill first learn the simple then the harder like Stop watch, Age counter, Calculator, Quiz, A project that has a menu of lists of food and we will order them and the money would be Accurately given as the Amount of Items Taken i made them in While True Loop, I am also Coding an Password Generator Project, and a Password Manager i made That's All

Odd Even Number - It Guess the Enteres number by the user is Even or odd

[deft herald]

Neat. How long on average do these projects take? a day? a week? a month?

Also, what kind of project do you really want to do? What's your goal?

[olive token]

Nah this doesnt take a Lot time but maximum if you think we can code them in one day but if you want to learn them Neatly then you would need Atlewast 1 or 2 Maximum days but Sticking to only 1 Project for 2 days Feels Time Waste But anything It's Worthit.

In one day i meant not 24 Hours

Under 24 Hours. Ahh 10 or more secs Slow Mode? HellNawh.

Also

There are Several Reasons for Starting Coding this Early.

As i wanted to code and i always wanted to learn code like from i had computer Subject in school so they just teach the Excel,Powerpoint,Word. That's useful ik but I wanted to learn Also the thing is in school

If they would teach code then i or all us will be Good at coding because at home we woudn't be doing All time but School we need to do even if we dont want to.

And the Other Reason is My dad and my mom doesn't like i Chat with someone or Play Games but that time my dad ad even my mom said that you play game that's better but dont chat idk why they hate.

So i started Coding so i get a Reason for Using Computer

Also my dad helps me Coding

[deft herald]

Yeah i think coding is becoming a lot more accessible now, and I'm 100% for teaching younger kids how to code. I have a 10 year old who's just getting introduced to coding with scratch and i love it

[deft herald]

That's great. Does he work in the software industry already?

[olive token]

he knows Little little soBut he doesnt Forces me to code he says this is that for you now coding is a Extra thing i said for timepass i do python(Iwanted pc so hehe) he says yes do timepass like this

[olive token]

Nah but He knows so he helps.

[olive token]

How yo you? you Got 10 yo kid?

aka Yrs Old

[deft herald]

Yeah 😄 I'm 36

[olive token]

Okay xD

Nvm that was Good Talking.

now leme Code. I got a Python Course for free its in my Country Language like Indian Coding industry is Unmatched 🗿

it has a Handbook and a Pdf with notes for chpter wise

[deft herald]

Are you in India?

[olive token]

Yea why You too? are in India or so?

[deft herald]

No I'm in US. I actually have quite a few friends from work from India though

[olive token]

Okay 👍

[deft herald]

And i have team members in Hydrabad

[olive token]

Bruh my dad lives there for his work and i live in Mumbai nvm Thats Good . And wanna Tell India is Not for Begginers 🗿

Hyderabadi Dum Biriyani 🗿 Only indians will Understand

[deft herald]

And wanna Tell India is Not for Begginers

Ha ha, i believe you

[olive token]

W

[deft herald]

Hey i know what biryani is

It's delicious that's what it is

[olive token]

Why tf are we Discussing bout Biriyani xD we are in Python Discord

Also you know other Coding languages also? or Only Python?

[deft herald]

In #career-advice nonetheless

[olive token]

fr

[olive token]

.

Bored Asf

[deft herald]

Yeah a few. I know C, dabbled in C++, matlab. Small experiences with others

[deft herald]

It's okay. no one else seems to really be here right now

[olive token]

Hmm

[olive token]

Gotta go Code

[deft herald]

do it. Go get 'em

[deft herald]

!kindling check out this list of projects too 👇

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[olive token]

Okay Thanks

Accept my Friend Req

[deft herald]

nah, but feel free to ping me on this server if you got any questions

[olive token]

Okay also Isn't it paid ?

It says to Buy.

[deft herald]

no

[olive token]

Wair leme Se

Whats the Thing here to check the projects

Gotta go will come in 5 to 10 Mins

[deft herald]

Read it 🙂 Any of those links gives you a list of some good projects

[olive token]

ok

[dry yoke]

Which one is good for beginners to learn the coding is it python ot c language

[rugged plume]

Both are good, but of course you're going to get more people saying python in a python group. Tbh you should learn both at some point, just pick one and get started

Any good programmer has several programing languages they can do pretty well in. Could specialize in one, but to build a career should be good with a few

[harsh river]

no, he meant start ups, which in turn led him to call himself a "founder"

[lavish tapir]

gn

[fast fossil]

I was trying to be funny

[torpid cliff]

Hi, full stack developer, looking for a remote job. Thanks for your time, github.com/sakenzhuma

[near ocean]

Hi, read the rules again, no asking for jobs here.
Thanks for your time

[torpid cliff]

where is the place to make an announcement?

[harsh river]

we don't have a place for that in this server, check out linkedin

[torpid cliff]

ok sir, sorry, have a good day. Just confused with the title of the discussion.

[last moat]

need honest advice. i worked as web scraping dev for 4 years. now i want to apply for data analyst or data engineer jobs. is it okay to write " 4 year of xp in data analysis/engineering etc" in resume. i mean lie about it. or i should be honest and write something like, 4 year of xp in web scraping and looking for oppurtunities in data analysis/engineering. because in my resume i mentioned my freelance portfolio and projects. it is all about web scraping. my resume isnt getting attention when i apply for data analyst/engineer positions. i wrote "4 years of experience in data analysis" in summary while my portfolio is all about web scraping

[peak halo]

if you say that you have four years of experience with something, and it's a blatant lie, it will become apparent during the interview that you've overstated your level of knowledge, and it will effectively end the interview.

you can say that you have four years of experience with data acquisition. it might also be accurate to say that you have 4yoe with data pipelineing. but don't say that you've been doing data analysis unless you can back that up during an interview.

[buoyant seal]

if you actually worked with data engineering (or data analyst) at least in your pet projects...
and confident to answer questions about it
you could consider adding thing like data engineering 1 year (or smaller amount like 6 months) so it would be present to pass automated checkers 😄
At least if u think u are ready to defend your knowledge at this level in interviews on any of those subjects

[last moat]

i understand core concepts of analysis/engineering but i dont have any pet project yet. so i guess i have to write 4 year of experience in web scraping/data pipelineing and 6 months of experience in data analysis and engineering. i think it would be honest and right option because i dont have pet projects yet.

[buoyant seal]

you don't have means to defend your knowledge though if u don't have practice at all on the subject
half of a year or year i suggest is good approach if actually... your overtime effort in pet projects was applied to this direction. Preferably pointing 1 year only if you spent 2-3 years of pet projects on the subject
When you applied on practice... you are usually aware enough to speak about the subject.
if you have zero, difference between zero and 1 year claimed will be very noticable
difference between 1 year of work and several year of pet projects activity can be not noticeable.

[lofty zephyr]

Is it off for a job to require you to use your personal GitHub account to push to prod

[near ocean]

Yes

Why haven't they given you a work account?

[last moat]

dont know is it allowed to share resume here or not. summary section of my resume is:

Experienced Data Analyst with 4 years of expertise in Python, SQL, Web Scraping, web automation, data analysis, and
visualization. Skilled in writing efficient SQL queries, building web automation, and scraping solutions using Python, with a
focus on, analyzing data, and creating visualizations to provide meaningful insights.

experience section is all about web scraping projects on upwork. not a single data analysis work. i think thats why resume is getting rejection. so i have to write 4 year xp in web scraping and then 6 months in data analysis/engineering? can you suggest changes in this summary

i just wanna get interview. passing interview is seprate problem. i can deal with it later

[buoyant seal]

technically no and technically yes.
I recommend you to create separate github account for a job to separate your personal and not personal stuff.
Really the best in terms of everything, of any accidents and licensing issues too

[buoyant seal]

i gave my advice.
Also, sharing resume is allowed here, as long as u anonymized personal data out of it (email/contacts)

[lofty zephyr]

Because won’t have enterprise agreement for another year lol

[near ocean]

Isnt that their issue to worry about tho?

[lofty zephyr]

Yeah just confirming, if I need to I would definitely jus take a separate account

[lofty zephyr]

It’s either I use a personal account or I don’t use GitHub

[buoyant seal]

our company never has enterprise agreement too.. and not an issue for any github accs 🤔
not sure how it is related
And we keep code on github yes

[near ocean]

Where is the company's code hosted

[buoyant seal]

Just create a new personal account for work 😉
I don't see a problem

[lofty zephyr]

Ok background, my position is not software engineering.

Also, I’ve learned that the company basically uses all SaaS and contractors , so there is basically 0 code in source control.

Right now, all code is python text files on the network drive. I understand this is a bad idea, and it taking a large effort to even establish any code standards at all, since I am the only one who codes(?) for internal development at a 1,000 person company .

Just wanted a sanity check, because I’m working at an insane place 😀

[white relic]

We don't have gh enterprise at my company. We have some code in git but not everybody on the team develops it. We use individual accounts with github. It's not a big deal.

[buoyant seal]

Right now, all code is python text files on the network drive. I understand this is a bad idea, and it taking a large effort to even establish any code standards at all, since I am the only one who codes(?) for internal development at a 1,000 person company .
:]
then it is your job to fix it, by starting with introducing Git usage

[last moat]

okay, is it okay if my resume is two page? or i should keep it to one page

[white relic]

honestly yeah though text files on network drive is waiting for trouble lol

[buoyant seal]

@lofty zephyr yeah... and we don't pay for gh enterprise too. no point. expensive and no benefits. No point to feed Microsoft.
We have enough CI minutes by using Self hosted github runners.

[lofty zephyr]

Literally been saying that… also fun it’s py 2 from a decade ago

[near ocean]

Holy shit are we colleagues LMAO

[lofty zephyr]

Also I am the only one who knows code in my team

[near ocean]

If youre the only dev you should give py 2to3 some thought
Alongside putting stuff in version control

[buoyant seal]

Along side with introducing CI runs on Github 🙂 at least with linters for a start
and then gradually introducing mypy/pyright after you upgraded python
and gradually introducing unit testing at some point

[white relic]

being the only dev can come with some flexibility to make changes as long as you don't disrupt the other 999 people's workflows too much

[lofty zephyr]

More background, we are still using a proprietary software, and the old version which still is dependent on python 2, which all of custom add-one include. This is a hard requirement, and we can’t migrate until our entire “enterprise “ is upgraded. Also python 2to3 won’t work since the proprietary software has breaking api changes.

There is not development. There is no production (for “backend” python at least). Continuous integration is me dragging my .py onto a shared folder.

My boss had to email our CTO since himself and his boss had 0 idea what GitHub was

[near ocean]

oof, is it time?

[harsh river]

or ask for 10x salary

[white relic]

eh, if it works, and doesn't need any ongoing development, there's worse things than having a big read-only folder of shared python 2 code

if it does need updates, even rarely, that's a different story

[near ocean]

build your own robust (hah) ci with cron and bash script or windows scheduler and powershell
congrats you just automated your job

[warped saffron]

hi

[lofty zephyr]

Yeah I’m updating every now and then when it breaks.

I’m also creating new projects too

[vapid jay]

this server looks very beautiful

[dry yoke]

But for us in college they already started c language it's getting too complicated

So, that's the reason I asked

[digital fjord]

In college, it is usually just a matter of needing that language for further courses. You will likely end up knowing a variety of languages, so it doesn't matter too much.

hello, please reread our #code-of-conduct

[vapid jay]

Blud ur a bot it was clearly a joke

[deft herald]

This situation sounds brutal. But like the others here have implied, you can be the change you want to see in your company

[lofty zephyr]

Yeah agree. It’s just weird being the agent of large IT change since I only have a few year’s experience and not as a true software dev. haha.

And also juggling my other work not as closely tied to python coding

[deft herald]

I only have a few year’s experience

Honestly this seems to be an advantage in your case - you're a fresh set of eyes; not stuck in your ways that you've been doing it for the last decade, etc.

All it takes is a network drive failure, or someon accidentally deletes it, or whatever and everything's gone

[lofty zephyr]

That’s a good perspective, and I agree. I think this is especially relevant with the public utility industry im within since it feels even easier to be stuck in the ways in contrast to startups or other for profit businesses

[deft herald]

I would throw together a few slides or something to propose these changes to your management - show how dangerous it is and all of the single points of failure that can happen. Then propose a solution and good practices you can help implement, then estimate how much time it would take you to do it (with a decent margin for error) and also how much time it could potentially save your co workers

[summer plover]

Any employers here? (not anything against the rules dw)

[lofty zephyr]

Yeah it’s wild. “We backup the network” feels like a poor excuse.

I guess the problem is there is almost no software being developed, let alone internal tools. And siloed too much doesn’t help

[white relic]

There are regulars here who have experience hiring people, if that's what you mean.
What would you ask them?

[summer plover]

Yep

I wanna ask them about the degree part of a resume

[astral fable]

@deft herald

[white relic]

it's usually best to just ask your question.
if people are here who can answer it, they will

[summer plover]

I'll send my questions once I'm home I'm eating rn but thanks

[astral fable]

Also are y’all like in mid 20’s and 30’s rn?

[deft herald]

We have an age range of 13 all the way up to late 40's. Maybe 50's?

[harsh river]

there's a 72 yr old guy last i remember

[deft herald]

(how old is ned?)

[harsh river]

last time i asked him he said "crazy old"

[deft herald]

lol sounds about right

[astral fable]

So y’all are adults with a job?

[harsh river]

a lot of us are, what's your real question?

[deft herald]

Yeah i'm a grown up

[astral fable]

Nah just asking cuz a lot of the topics discussed here are way above my level

[summer plover]

17 turning 18 very soon 🙂‍↕️

I'm still a kid, but an ambitious one

[astral fable]

I’m 13 turning 14 😭

[summer plover]

Woah you've got me there

Started coding yet? @astral fable

[astral fable]

Yeah when I was 11

Python and HTML

Also is it just me or should the cooldown be a bit shorter like 10 seconds?

[deft herald]

It's there for a reason

[summer plover]

Yeah it's 20 secs rn

[astral fable]

Ik that but seems kinda longer

[deft herald]

For the most part, you're restricted to all the classes needed to obtain a degree. Even the electives are still typically "take a 400-level class in the CS department of your choice". If you want to do both business and CS, then i would try to do like a major in CS and a minor in Business. This is all stuff that your advisor can help with once you get accepted to a university

[astral fable]

Alr thx

I’m just worried about my marks tbh

[fringe sphinx]

Also; every school publishes a curriculum map: the core courses, optional electives, and general courses you must take for a degree

Once you have a Uni, you'll just follow that map

[astral fable]

Our school doesn’t 💀

[abstract canopy]

Hey guys , I am applying for a data analyst / data scientist role as a fresher
so any advice on wht to expect or wht resouces you can suggest for my preparation

[fringe sphinx]

University?

[astral fable]

Wdym?

[fringe sphinx]

Are you in University?

[astral fable]

Nope I’m 13 gang

Ain’t that smart to reach university yet

[fringe sphinx]

I'm talking about University.

When you go to Uni, they'll tell you what courses you need to take

[astral fable]

Ohhhhh alr

Wow they do that? That could help a lot ngl

[ruby holly]

Hey there, I'm a Python dev with three years of commercial experience

In my country, the job market absolutely sucks, so I have a few questiona:
Is it worth it trying to stay with my stack or try a new language? How does past experience correspond with a new job in a different stack? And what is the best way to improve my current knowledge?

My stack is Django/DRF + PSQL + Redis and Celery, docker/docker compose and GitLab CI/CD

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, pick a Uni you like and search for 'computer science curriculum' or 'degree requirements'

You'll usually find a pdf that lists the courses or provides a roadmap

[astral fable]

Which countries would be the best to apply?

I am gonna write SAT in a year or so, but I’m thinking UK since many of my cousins have made their career there

[deft herald]

What country are you in now?

[astral fable]

UAE, in a CBSE school

Some ppl saying do undergrad in Dubai and postgrad outside

[sand patio]

that's what my cousins did, albeit they're from India, not Dubai.

[astral fable]

I’m also Indian lmao

[sand patio]

if you already have family in the UK, it might be easier to set up a life there

[white relic]

what country you plan to live in is really a pretty personal choice.
there's more to the decision than googling what countries have the highest salaries for SWE (or whatever)
also your options may be limited by geopolitics as much as by where you can be accepted

[astral fable]

Not a family per se but rather few cousins here are there in their mid 20s

[astral fable]

I want to settle in UAE only lol but for university I want to aim for UK or US

[sand patio]

with the U.S., at least, my cousins had to struggle a fair bit to get jobs after their masters

[astral fable]

UAE’s really safe and chill ngl and many areas are really op

[astral fable]

Also here you gain trust if you have a good track record of Arabic in ur schools

[white relic]

it's early to pick a university at 13.
especially considering what can change in 4 years...

[deft herald]

Some people don't even know what they want to major in until their 2nd year in college, too

[white relic]

pick some good options, look at what it would require to get in, work towards that.

[astral fable]

Really?

[astral fable]

That’s the thing,I don’t know where to start and which to focus exactly on

[deft herald]

Yup. Sometimes you can do like "undeclared engineering" and get up to 3rd ish year before you have to decide what type of engineering

[astral fable]

Cuz I have no clue what university I wanna go in

[deft herald]

But like trentj said, you got time. Figure out what you like learning and what interests you in the next 4 years

[astral fable]

I’m in Grade 10 lol I joined a year early

[fringe sphinx]

Being in us, I have no idea. -But- my advice is always: talk to people in your network (family/friends of family/teachers) and hear about their experience.

[white relic]

That's fine, what I'm saying is you can pick a few options as far as focus and university, and decide later. Keep your options open.

[astral fable]

I mean prolly got 2.5 years but sure thanks for advice

[white relic]

Supposing you would enter university in 2027, you'll probably be sending applications out in 2026, and you won't be able to make a final decision before you start getting acceptances.

[astral fable]

Yup

Also guys I’ve often wondered

What’s the point of perfecting coding and the basics if AI can do a lot of stuff in just milliseconds

I mean it literally replaces us and this isn’t any new news or not talked bout before

[fringe sphinx]

Coding is the easy part of programming

https://youtube.com/shorts/qfxzL17JmOQ?feature=shared

[astral fable]

I got that but

[wooden lotus]

Hello

[vapid jay]

right coding is the easy part to end up ur life

jk

[astral fable]

@fringe sphinx then what are the other fundamental concepts and practices in “programming” like other than coding?

Are we talking about domains of AI such as Data Science, Computer Vision, NLP?

[fringe sphinx]

Watch this full version: https://youtu.be/uyLy7Fu4FB4?feature=shared

[white relic]

Same as any engineering discipline, really.
Requirements definition, design methods, project management, collaboration with clients/stakeholders, ...

[fringe sphinx]

The speaker, Lamport, is a very respected 'elder' of computer science.

[astral fable]

Alr tysm

[astral fable]

Yeah heard of him

[astral fable]

Isn’t that related to buissness?

[pine sleet]

so-so. fair bit of overlap

[white relic]

Yes, as a programmer, your job is related to business.

There aren't too many jobs that aren't related to business, really.

[true harness]

kinda wild that work in a business is related to business 🗿

[astral fable]

We did learn about an AI Project Cycle once which includes problem scoping, data acquisition, data filtering, modelling and evaluation

[white relic]

But the stuff I mentioned is really more about how you know what you should be doing and why, not really business per se, just how things get done

[astral fable]

Will I understand what he’s saying in the video tho?

[white relic]

I can't guess what you will understand, but one way to find out would be to watch the video

[dusk flume]

🤯

[deft herald]

why not?

Do you think mine is? 😄

[edgy mesa]

I’ll never break into analytics , I had a interview and it was entry level and still didn’t get it

[past trail]

can someone please help me how to pip install its not working for me at all please help someone

[smoky quest]

It's a better question for #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help

[harsh river]

Is that the one on your LinkedIn?

[deft herald]

No haha. My linkedin is a professional shot of me and my family, albeit it's a bit outdated

[harsh river]

sad

[fast fossil]

were you preparing for it though? did they explain to you why you didn't get the role? also why so self-critical?

[edgy mesa]

I only had one day to prep, no just an email saying I didn’t get it , and idk

[astral fable]

Shouldn’t ur pics in LinkedIn look as professional as possible

[fast fossil]

You've been preparing to be a data analyst for a whole one day and expected to immediately get a job?

[rugged plume]

If they sent you a rejection email you can ask for feedback so you have specifics to work on

Most potential employers won't proactively give that to you, so you have to try and reach out for it.

[dusk flume]

Even if it wasnt. Idk where your not going with Qualcomm on your reume

[deft herald]

Sure

[dusk flume]

I'd argue that the resume is what the employer is paying attention to but yeah, professionalism is a bonus

[deft herald]

It definitely shouldn't be a pic with your finger in your nose. But i like having my family on my linked in to add a bit of human element

[small pasture]

Hello everyone! I need your advice. I learn and write on Django, wrote my portfolio project on Django. And now, when i'm looking for a job, often i see that Javascript (React) is necessary. So i wanted to ask, is it possible to find a job just as Django developer, or i should learn JavaScript too?

[fringe sphinx]

If you want to be a web developer, you need JS skills

Django is just part of the puzzle, and it makes sense to complement that with JS

[small pasture]

understood, thank you

[buoyant wadi]

Hi everyone I had an interview ,2 hours ago and it went terrible.it was for jr python dev.CONTEXT" [It was my third round of interview today. First was aptitiude . Which is basically quant ,logical reason, maths tyrpe. After that . 2 question hackrank type test. But it was third where 1 hours discussion on django , plsql. After that he asked me to write a code on printing prime no 1 t0 100 .I wasn't able to do it . Despite practicing this 100 times but when I was in front of him I couldn't even do basic version of the program.] My mind went black.i didn't knew where to start. So my question what should I do how should I deal with such situation . Only while doing dsa I had my brain freeze. Other than that I was okay.

Do how do I do practice to do dsa while in front of him while approaching the problem

[deft herald]

how should I deal with such situation

Not much you can do now about the interview that happened in the past, but you sure can keep practicing problems like this. What part of it exactly had you stumbling?

[white relic]

I'm sorry that happened to you. It sounds like it was pretty much nerves.
One way you can work on being less nervous is to do practice interviews. Universities, job centers, and libraries sometimes hold mock interviews you can sign up for to practice dealing with interview pressure.

[deft herald]

Universities, job centers, and libraries sometimes hold mock interviews
That's a great idea. Honestly didn't know this existed

[buoyant wadi]

@deft herald problem is when I do such question on whiteboard I go blank . I a m not able to talk to them. As I approach to the problem . The second they asked me questions. I go blank have to restart from again . But while practicing with my friends it doesn't happen. Even writing easiest problem which I can write eyes closed . Suddenly seems like some sort sort of advance dp problem.

[deft herald]

Yeah this is a common nerves thing. I don't really know what to suggest here, but if you feel this happening make sure to really slow down, take a step back, and walk yourself through each small step at a time

[buoyant wadi]

Yeash I think same . This is second time it happened to me. First time I was like maybe it happens . Might be not enough practice. But this time I have solved this problem at least 20 to 30 times so it's not the issue of practice.at least for this problem

[deft herald]

When i'm nervous, whether giving a presentation or doing something like this in front of people, i tend to go way too fast and i notice a lot of people do this too. I think that can cause some of this paralasys when you need to think something through but you're worried about wanting to do it quickly

[buoyant wadi]

Looks like solutions is to fail enough times(deal with it approach). So it doesn't make me go blank again.basically fail fast learn fast.unfortunatley it somewhat hurts deep down to fail a easy job interview(question's yourself).where you could have easily done better.

[deft herald]

And also keep in mind that these interviews aren't necessairly looking for you to just recite the correct answer from memory. They're more interested in your process of approaching a new problem. It may have actually gone better than you think

[buoyant wadi]

I do think the same .will try to improve myself. More companies for campus placement are approaching ,let's see how it goes.hopefully will get placed somewhere good

[vapid jay]

I'm starting grad school in january and I'm wondering how much specialization matters? I'm transitioning to CS from a math UG. I was thinking about computing systems as a catch-all but I'm not sure what the most marketable one is. here's a list of options: https://omscs.gatech.edu/specializations

[ancient leaf]

Hi

[rare lava]

i keep seeing videos on tiktok and instagram about the fact that the demand for programmers is very low is that true

[deft herald]

tiktok and instagram are, in general, not a great source from which to get truth

[white relic]

It's not true in any practical sense.

[rare lava]

yeah i believe that but the amount of videos i see everyday about the same topic is disturbing

[deft herald]

You're just feeding the algorithm 🙂

[white relic]

Demand goes up and down. It was really high during the pandemic for a bit, then crashed, and is recovering. So it's not as high as you might wish, not as low as you might fear, but at the end of the day demand for programmers is just one factor and it's a macroeconomic thing that you don't really have control over

[deft herald]

It's also very nuanced in every sub-industry

[rare lava]

alright thanks for answering that really helped

[white relic]

If you want to become a programmer, you should do that. It's not at all a dying or even threatened discipline.

[deft herald]

my company (at least the particular SW org i'm in) has had a hiring freeze for like 2 years

[white relic]

If you are a programmer already, you might want to avoid telling your boss to shove it, at least for a bit.

[deft herald]

but trent's right. programming is one of those occupations that will be around for generations still IMO

[rugged plume]

The algorithms are literally designed to keep you engaged, which it does bey being more negative. With big tech companies doing layoffs the past year or two sure the demand is on the lower side and thats mostly on the entry to mid level jobs. However there will always be a need for developers. Even with AI its becoming more of a tool to use rather than the job killer that people are fear mongering about

People said tech jobs would be long gone back in the dot com bubble in the early 2000s, now look at the tech industry compared to then

[white relic]

What's your plan for after your MS?
All of those specializations have healthy career options ahead of them, and there's some overlap between almost all of them.

If you don't have a specific goal in mind, you can do worse than just picking whatever sounds most interesting.

[vapid jay]

I'm thinking SWE/data engineering. I enjoy data analysis a decent bit but I feel like the market is tougher for that.

I was thinking about computing systems because it seems like its the most generic

[white relic]

all of them could be considered subcategories under SWE, but computing systems looks like the most "traditional" program for lack of a better word

I don't see one that screams data engineering

[restive path]

Hello 👋

[muted bridge]

How long should a cover letter be? Mine's sitting at 120 words. Also, does it have to follow this ChatGPT-esque format that all the online guides seem to preach? Or do you have some creative freedom?

Better yet, can I share mine here?

[rugged plume]

Generally speaking you've got a fair bit of creative freedom. The cover letter is supposed to be a summary of yourself, the job you're applying to and why you'd be a good fit for it/the company

https://www.tealhq.com/cover-letter-examples/programmer

[near ocean]

I would not be applying to jobs that ask for cover letters but thats just me

[rugged plume]

Thats true, I haven't used a cover letter since like 2019 I think

I probly won't use a cover letter unless I wanted to go into leadership or something

[muted bridge]

Normally that's my process but for some reason I'm being asked for a cover letter after passing the first round of interviews

[wind jetty]

Hello

Guys I need help with python coding it a lap project

[fringe sphinx]

this is the #career-advice channel. Start in #python-discussion or open a help thread: #❓｜how-to-get-help

[ivory smelt]

Apologizes if this isn't the correct channel as this message doesn't necessarily relate to Python but does to the workforce. Is there anyway a Computer Engineering degree would hinder me from getting a job in software development? I honestly like the flexibility that a CE degree would provide since it would allow me to work with hardware and software, but the primary goal is to start working in the software field post graduation. Are there any advantages a CS degree will provide that CE degree won't?

[buoyant seal]

probably almost all people hiring for software develop positions will not care that you took CE instead of SD course
as long as you will show possessing skills valid to begin job role you aim for (and preferably will show any other points prooving you got onto software dev path, like building pet projects, making some portfolio, participating in hackatons, or internships and etc)
Or at least i say so for my origin country, which has small enough difference beetween different Computer related specializations

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with this. WIth a CE degree, it's doubly important to show your programming projects/skills/etc.

[smoky quest]

We don't allow recruiting on this server.
You may want to look at job sites like linkedin or indeed

[storm stump]

I would like to get some insights, I am an aspiring backend engineer python focused, I started looking into Django, and so far I have looked into Python core, DSA( doing leetcode) and Databases
So what other frameworks and things will I have to look for?
(API and web services, VCS, Deployment and cloud, System design, Network and security - are these correct? any additional things to add)

[dry yoke]

What is this letter for?

[dry yoke]

Which programing language is this for is it c Or all languages

[rugged plume]

Its just cover letter examples for programmers in general

Not specific to a programing language, but you can tailor them to specific jobs you apply to

[dry yoke]

What if we use those letters for the job interviews and they cross check it and what if we got caught?

Or we can take it as only for reference

[rugged plume]

Up to you either way, but I'd use them as inspiration to make your own

[smoky quest]

Don't lie. It's super easy to catch and it would most likely be written down in the ATS and follow you there at that company forever

[dry yoke]

You mean that we can use?

[rugged plume]

They're examples, so adapt them to your skills and the jobs you're applying towards

[past heath]

One question I want to ask. Most people in Internet and outside internet say that language is not a barrier when developing logic or making application. A person knows X language can write Y language with the same understanding as the X language if they have the fundamentals clear.
To some extent this is true as I work in .net at work but my preferred language is python.
My question to you guys is this, doen't the syntax bother you? or like there are different methods for array or list in python and java or c# or any other language. It does make a very big difference. Maybe the same method for example list.pop method in X lang can be a little different in Y lang.
So how does language wont be barrier. It seem to me a bother.
I have to google for each method in .net as it is little different than python.

[smoky quest]

being a barrier is different from having a preference

[kindred oyster]

It does make a very big difference
well the big portion of doing something with code is just figuring out the conceptual solution , after that its just translating that solution into the code of given language
sure , syntax and things will be different between the languages , but at the end , you are implementing the same thing
if all the languages had the exact same or very similar syntax, methods, way of writing things , there wont be these many different languages to begin with

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
Unit testing properly with integration for your database code is probably the most important thing for code quality you can learn 🙂
That alone will jump quality of your work by 3-10 times

[kindred oyster]

I have to google for each method in .net as it is little different than python.
well yea , you cant just start writing code in .net without knowing the language it uses first , you will have to learn the language upto a certain point before you start writing code in it
but since you know another language prior to learning this one , you will have a much easier time learning it compared to someone who has no prior experience

[past heath]

Another question how do you guys increase your logical skills? Like I read the code but does not understand or like I get blank.
I want to increase the knowledge and logic so much that if I switch for another job I don't fail interview because of logic or for minute things.
also can do any coding task if given to me.

[kindred oyster]

more and more practice
solve questions , make projects
look at other people's code, learn from it

[past heath]

what questions?

[dusk flume]

I love this question because it was the same one I asked like 6 days ago

I like CE because I'm mostly into computers in general rather than just hardware or software.

[stuck matrix]

It's harder to read code than to write it (quoted from https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/). Practice both reading and writing.

[west flicker]

If game development doesn't work, software engineering doesn't work, what'll be my plan C

[peak halo]

you might consider learning a trade.

[west flicker]

Oh..... I was actually thinking of crime

[warped saffron]

hi guys

i just made a choice manager off of python is it good?

import random
import time
from random import choice
def two_choices():
first = input("")
second = input("")
choices = random.choice([first, second])
print("This is your chosen choice: " + choices)

def three_choices():
first = input('')
second = input('')
third = input('')
choices = random.choice([first, second, third])
print("This is your chosen choice: " + choices)

def four_choices():
first = input('')
second = input('')
third = input('')
fourth = input('')
choices = random.choice([first, second, third, fourth])
print("this is your chosen choice: " + choices)

def five_choices():
first = input('')
second = input('')
third = input('')
fourth = input('')
fifth = input('')
choices = random.choice([first, second, third, fourth])
print("This is your chosen choice: " + choices)

print('keywords: 2 choices, 3 choices, 4 choices, 5 choices')

input_choice = (input('What are your choices: '))
print(input_choice)

if input_choice == '2 choices':
two_choices()
elif input_choice == '3 choices':
three_choices()
elif input_choice == '4 choices':
four_choices()
elif input_choice == '5 choices':
five_choices()
else:
print("Unable to compute such command")

ignore the import time, i had different ideas for this

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel, and a wall of code.

[fringe sphinx]

You can post in #python-discussion , but use the pastebin. Or, open a help thread and mark Code Review: #❓｜how-to-get-help

[minor raven]

ok

[warped saffron]

thank u

[glossy summit]

How to work under a shitty bos? How do I stand for myself against his high expectations and low pay as an ai intern?

[white relic]

It really depends on the situation. High expectations and low pay do not inherently mean a toxic work environment (but they can contribute to it) and there are a lot of ways a boss can be bad.
Generally applicable advice: if you can change your situation (get transferred to a better department... switch jobs... etc.) then work on that.

[white relic]

Exactly what that looks like can vary a lot, like, is he openly hostile toward you specifically? volatile and unpredictable behavior toward all his employees? just ineffective/incompetent?

[formal forum]

hi 😊

[worn chasm]

I have to complete an online technical assessment soon. It's for a graduate position. I'm good at python, but the nerves are hitting me.

[deft plaza]

Hello everyone! Should I quit my part-time job and focus solely on Software Engineering and my studies? I am a freshman CS major in college btw

[fringe sphinx]

As opposed to what?

[deft plaza]

as opposed to working and being in college. I am fortunate enough to not have to work. I have tuition covered for at least the next few years inshallah

[fringe sphinx]

That's obviously not enough information for us to recommend anything. Tell us more?

That's like asking: "Should I eat a taco or salad for lunch?"

(the answer is Taco)

[deft plaza]

my question boils down to, would me focusing on ONLY Software engineering related stuff such as being active, building connections, doing projects, etc be better/ give me a better chance at landing a job once I graduate

[deft herald]

I mean, there's something to be said about having somewhat of a social life during college so you're not absolutely miserable

[deft plaza]

guys please try to address the underlying question dont beat around the bush

[deft herald]

I was going to give some more adivce but maybe you're not actually open to it

[fringe sphinx]

You're not asking an answerable question.

What's your job? Is it gettring in the way of your studies? etc.

Lots of people work part time jobs while going to school.

[deft herald]

Are you able to get through without a steady income?

[deft plaza]

I do delivery part time around 20 hours per week

[deft plaza]

yes I can get through without steady income, so would allocating that 20 hours to more SWE related stuff be better in the long run?

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, putting more time into "getting good" at your major is always a good idea. Or, finding a part time job that aligns with your career goals (even help desk or IT support helps and teaches you useful skills).

[deft herald]

The best way to "network" during your college years is to get an internship between school years

[deft plaza]

should i apply anyways despite a blank slate of a resume?

[deft herald]

Your course work should be primary focus during school year

[deft herald]

Yes, internship resumes typically only have school related experience and projects listed on them

[deft plaza]

so what I understand is I should focus on course work during the school year, work something related to the field/intern during the summer break, and ultimately if I am to continue working, it is better for it to be related to my career goals

[open ivy]

I wonder if sending out large number of applications would make more sense if I had a both highly automated and flexible (for personalizing each one) automation system set up? Otherwise it feels like a gigantic waste of time, as it is neither social nor technical and also does not provide feedback when I am failing.

[ivory smelt]

So did you end up going with CE?

[dusk flume]

Nah G. I'm still have some way before I get into uni.

[muted night]

So, I have an Exam for a job in a week from now
Should I do practice tests or just revise what I've studied

[white relic]

I majored in CE (years ago). I haven't regretted it. I still get to do a lot of coding stuff but I have gotten other opportunities because of my EE background.
If you are interested in hardware and electronics, it can be a great option. It might not open doors for the highest echelon of CS jobs in the same way a CS degree does, though I'm not even sure about that.

[white relic]

well, do you know what material the exam is over?
practice tests are a form of studying, so this question reads to me like "should I study this way or should I study that way" which really depends on how you best absorb information as an individual

[muted night]

do you know what material the exam is over?
yes, a rough outline

[frozen bridge]

Do you guys have any recommendation on a fun course for computer scientist that teaches programming. I feel like I wanna practise programming more because I lack that skill so nothing to theoretic but not basic course either cuz I won't be able to get accepted if I have already taken similar course.

[rugged plume]

Harvard's CS50 course on YouTube may be a good free resource. They have a 15hr python class that's super beginner friendly

[frozen bridge]

No not that kinda courses, I am a 3rd year uni student and need to pick electives so not really on a beginner level but I don't feel like I am where I am supposed to be in terms of programming because most of my time is spent on theories so I want ideas on courses focused on problem solving with programming.

[indigo steeple]

just read it and it is way too long, here is one that is shorter and works the same:

import random

print(f"This is your randomly chosen choice: {random.choice([input(f"Choice {i + 1}: ") for i in range(int(input("Number of Choices: ")))])}")

also the only reason I shortended it is because my ADHD OCD brain told be to do this (also sorry for me also making it a one liner)

[near ocean]

This is #career-advice

[fringe sphinx]

😢

[indigo steeple]

ik but my brain was getting mad at me for not fixing it

[true harness]

i would say to just build your own projects. intro programming courses are going to be boring to you as a third year student

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, don't write it like that. Please.

[indigo steeple]

why

[fringe sphinx]

We can discuss in #python-discussion , but that's just a great example of an overly complex line of code.

[indigo steeple]

I KNOW

[frozen bridge]

Yeah I suck at programming but not that bad lol. I wanna do my own projects but still need one course for my elective and I just cannot decide, overwhelmed by the choices and also because some are just way to intensive than I'd like.

But what type of course do you guys think would prepare me for the industry?

[white relic]

there's a lot of "the industry"

you're presumably getting a bachelor's degree in CS? so your options won't be especially limited

[muted bridge]

this is pretty horrible advice to follow in today’s market

companies could not care less about a 4.0 if the resume is a blank slate

it’s also entirely likely to finish a degree without ever learning the skills you need for a job, another reason why projects > coursework

[fringe sphinx]

You're missing hte context here.

The question was about working a side job during the school semester.

vs allocating time to projects and coursework.

[muted bridge]

oh then no I wouldn’t suggest taking a side job if it wasn’t related to your career

[deft herald]

Yeah, and additional context is that outside of the school year, you should be working at an internship

[muted bridge]

my bad sorry for jumping the gun

[deft herald]

all good

your points were valid 🙂

[indigo steeple]

anybody want to know my career?

[near ocean]

Maybe if you use words instead of big blocky gifs

[indigo steeple]

no

I like meme

[near ocean]

This isnt a meme channel

[indigo steeple]

ik, but it still highlights my role

[rugged plume]

Bro please stick to the topics of the chat, go ahead and talk about your career or goals, but lets keep memes out of it

[tawny pagoda]

does anyone here know how to use upwork? i want to develop projects but I also want to amke money as well, I was hoping if anyone can help me figure out this job market

[open ivy]

It is difficult because you can't just lowball yourself.

It's not like "hey let me offer a little work for free to keep the reviews good." It's more like a dance between clients and workers.

I am planning on trying it eventually, but I will probably fail. Maybe I can show you my failure so others can learn from it?

[glossy summit]

ineffecive/incompetent

[smoky quest]

Can you give a concrete example?

[glossy summit]

Its taking us more than 1.5 months to do a simple rag. He keeps trying to find different ways to do it and contacts me whenever he pleases. I am sure the project could be done in less than half a month already. I could do it. He seems to not accept help from our backend and frontend dev when they could have done the useless work we occupied ourselves with and gave trash results in the end. Like why make me do streamljt till 4 in the morning for days when we have a frontend dev. Wtf bro

[smoky quest]

Reading between the lines, they might be trying to:

• Prove the idea cheaply with streamlit before involving frontend/backend teams
• Provide you an opportunity to demonstrate the idea end to end

and to be explicit, I do not believe it would take weeks to use streamlit to demonstrate RAGs for an engineer, but it might for an intern as many things will be new to them

[glossy summit]

No, it was showcase to customer nad he tried to convince everyone streamlit if good enough

And no he doesn't believe it teaching intern just cheap labor and wants input and brainstorming from me in everything.

[smoky quest]

So what's the problem? Sounds like real world experience 🙂

[muted bridge]

i might already know the answer, but can open source contributions to a single company be listed as experience (and not projects)?

[smoky quest]

were you in a relationship such as a contractor or employee with that company?

[vapid jay]

Hello

What should I pursue

[smoky quest]

It's entirely up to you

[vapid jay]

I mean

I need a job as soon as possible low lpa ok

[smoky quest]

Working as a waiter in restaurants or in coffeeshops is a common thing, especially if you need a job asap

<@&831776746206265384> scam

[vapid jay]

Oh I see

[spiral marsh]

Hi guys, I was just starting to learn Python and I thought about starting a career that might help me in my Python journey and wich degree's useful in the job market

[vapid jay]

Have you ever studied programming before?

[peak halo]

computer science

[spiral marsh]

no, had a little insight in school but nothing compared to what I'm learning now

[spiral marsh]

Thanks! I was looking my options and it looks promising

[faint depot]

Just found a degree apprenticeship from atkins which has a misleading title because it seems bloody fantastic for what I may want. Plus, Ill be eligible for it as well

[glossy summit]

Well today just ended. He came office on last 1 hr and gave his report. No apology to me or anything. My office is 3 freaking hours away. I had to leave before eating breakfast and i will go back after dinner. He kept saying I am coming. This speaks volume.

He lives like 2 km away. I live more than 50 yet he forces me to come. Do you get it?

[drifting pelican]

does anyone know if how badly people say the oversaturation in the computer science field is, is actually true?

[fringe sphinx]

It's exaggerated. It is true that there's been slowdown in hiring for a number of reasons, but many people think that's for economic reasons and not because of some permanent change in the tech industry.

[drifting pelican]

isn't AI a threat for all coding jobs right now?

[fringe sphinx]

In short, No. There's a longer answer and discussion here tho.

[drifting pelican]

ah

[fringe sphinx]

AI is more like having a better tool that can help us, and can be useful at making a SWE more efficient. I don't find it terribly useful in my work (it's more like Google or Stackoverflow for me)

[drifting pelican]

ohhhh okay, so it wont be able to fully replace the jobs most likely?\

[fringe sphinx]

I'll put it this way: When AI replaces programmers, AI will have replaced humans.

[deft herald]

Like any major technological advancement, it might replace some jobs, but it may also open up others. That's how the software industry started, after all

[summer plover]

data science

[summer plover]

data science instead of computer science

[kindred oyster]

tbh people who ask "will AI take my job ?" , the answer is probably yes for them

[near ocean]

Based but also fair

[muted bridge]

no

[summer plover]

😭🙏🏼

• "Will AI replace my job?"
  Yes.
• "So we're gonna be homeless?"
  No, you're gonna be homeless.

[languid mist]

Yo does anyone know good frontend if so dm me

[deft herald]

Feel free to open a help channel in #1035199133436354600

[pseudo granite]

guys, AI took my job

I am the first victim, you guys hate to admit, but here I am

[harsh river]

could you elaborate?

[pseudo granite]

I have applied to hundreds of jobs in the past year, crafted my CV and applied to many companies, but right only they only accept senior levels. The lower levels can be done by AI

[lyric rover]

bro!! i seeen the same thing

[pseudo granite]

how the hell would I get a senior level and prove I have a senior level exp

[true harness]

what's your current CV?

[pseudo granite]

I will upload it if you are interested

[lyric rover]

please i wanna see it

[pseudo granite]

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .gif, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

[true harness]

take a screenshot

[pseudo granite]

here

I've switched to side jobs and mini developer jobs

as for python, it's senior, plus companies are afraid when hiring not knowing if the dev is who wrote the code or if it's using chatgpt

[deft herald]

The lower levels can be done by AI

That's not the reason

[pseudo granite]

enlighten me

[deft herald]

Well to start, there's more to being a software engineer than just writing code

[pseudo granite]

I have knowledge and experience in SOLID, clean coding, DRY, CI/CD

[deft herald]

I think really companies aren't opening up very many new positions, so a lot of what you see now are backfills. That's part of my theory

[pseudo granite]

so what do you suggest? from your experience, tell me where should I head to

[deft herald]

That's not what i meant though. I meant "communicating with people" as a very large part of it

[pseudo granite]

yup, that's a huge problem, I was living in my home country and evertything was fine, but I had to flee because of war

I found out that in Germany it's all about having someone that you know, but how do I do that?

[harsh river]

i thought AI took your job? you were impliying that you were employed and that then you were let go because of AI replacing you, it doesn't sound like that

it just sounds like you havent been able to find a job and are making assumptions towards that

[pseudo granite]

people that came 3 years ago found a job easily

the tech market entry requirements were easier

now it's only either senior or having someone that you know

[harsh river]

pray tell, what happened in 2019?

[pseudo granite]

corona?

[harsh river]

uhuh, lots of people started working from home, do you see how that might've had an effect?

[pseudo granite]

so what do you suggest I should do?

[deft herald]

Also tech companies hired like crazy in 2019 and 2020 and they're (at least my company is) still correcting for that

[pseudo granite]

yup, I missed the wave, I was working in a small company at that time.

[deft herald]

I think the only good advice here is to keep grinding sending out applications. I'll look at the resume too

[pseudo granite]

I'd rather work towards achieving the senior level in something, but the problem there are many paths, I still haven't decided where to

[deft herald]

Honestly i think your resume is pretty good. Also, you do have a Master's degree which should be enough to apply for Senior level positions

I guess you don't have it yet

I would still apply for "Senior" level. A lot of times it's like 3-5yrs EXP with Bachelors, or just a Master's

[pseudo granite]

I have talked with many Germans, they told me it's about the network. I'm already stuck in Germany, I have to make it work here
however, I don't have a senior level in Python. I have a mid-senior level https://chatgpt.com/share/67215759-ca9c-800f-a2d4-c4b0b78a7e52

the problem with my career, I have worked in C# and Web as well, so I have experience in them as well, I didn't stick to one thing

[vapid jay]

Verify

[harsh river]

isn't the job title and the company name switched? that looks weird

[pseudo granite]

I worked according to the needs in the market, so I have experience in all of them, but not one thing as senior

[pseudo granite]

what do you mean

[harsh river]

EXPERIENCE
REACT DEVELOPER
Technische Universität Clausthal | Lower Saxony, Germany | APR 2024 - SEP 2024

FULLSTACK DEVELOPER
Arkadia Studio | Sanaá, Yemen | JAN 2020 - MAR 2023

PYTHON DEVELOPER
Social Fund for Development | Sanaá, Yemen | AUG 2019 - MAY 2020
and so on

[deft herald]

Doesn't matter if you had the "senior" title already or not. I think you qualify for at least non-entry level role

[pseudo granite]

the lower roles in Germany require C1 language most of the times, which is a long and hard grind, I am currently grinding in B1

I have C1-C2 in English though

[pseudo granite]

even that, companies are scared of hiring someone with no connections

they need someone to verify that this guy is good and will do the job

people with connections are x4 times higher to get a job than someone who doesn't

[deft herald]

What do you have to lose by applying to those positions though?

[deft herald]

You just pulled this out of your cough cough

[pseudo granite]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/how-to-get-a-job-often-comes-down-to-one-elite-personal-asset.html

[true harness]

yeah...networking. how are they gonna check how many connections you have if they just see your resume. besides, it's not a negative, it's just not a positive

[edgy mesa]

You think I’d apply for a job after ONE day of studying 🤣🤣 I’ve been trying to get a data related position for months/years

[edgy mesa]

I’m not asking the company that rejected me and wasted my time for interview advice and feedback

I dressed up and the lady looked like she’s just chilling wearing a t shirt and a flannel

[deft herald]

I feel like suit and tie is no longer the status quo for interviews.

[edgy mesa]

I’d rather over dress than underdress 🤷‍♂️ it’s an interview first impression means everything

[rugged plume]

If they ACTUALLY wasted your time then sure, but if you just got rejected then they could have useful feedback. I've gotten decent feedback from a few interviews that I failed in the past.

[deft herald]

I've also had people outright say no, presumably due to liability. It doesn't hurt to ask though. what are they going to do, reject you even harder?

[fringe sphinx]

There's a sweet spot.... going in with a suit and tie is usually too much, and jeans and t shirt is too little.

[deft herald]

I have also been known to ask for what they expect for appropriate attire. Usually they just respond with "business casual"

[fringe sphinx]

I throw a sport coat over business casual, that's usually plenty

[white relic]

also practical, in regions where indoor areas are heavily air conditioned year round

[torpid birch]

Going for an coding + networking questions on my next interview, they say it is not going to be too advanced.
The person talking to me hinted that it could be multiple snippets with errors and i would need to fix them.
The network question will be under CCNA level.

Any tips? 🙂

[edgy mesa]

Interview was Friday , they reject me Tuesday morning. No chance they had time to even think about it

[muted bridge]

You seem awfully pessimistic which probably resonated in your interview

Rejection is just a natural part of playing the game, you apply to jobs, interview, get rejected from a nice chunk of them, until one of them doesn't

[true harness]

or it was an easy choice that didn't need thinking

[edgy mesa]

Or the hr lady wanted to seem busy on a Friday

[edgy mesa]

There’s nothing I can do , im quitting looking for jobs bro I have a bad resume I tweaked it a bunch of times I can’t find anything

Being a financial analyst doesn’t sound too bad these days

I cannot crack into any data job lol or even help desk for anybody

[muted bridge]

have you considered a masters program

[edgy mesa]

No experience or internship = game over

[balmy spade]

You have experience.

[edgy mesa]

What if I run into the same issues? I feel like a masters is like putting a bandage on a huge laceration when I need stitches

[muted bridge]

if I'm honest when I look at your resume I think you largely misplayed your undergraduate degree and I think a master's program is a reasonable way to get it back together

[edgy mesa]

I’ve considered it but again im scared same issue will happen

[muted bridge]

You just need to focus on your projects a lot more

[balmy spade]

Really? When I look at it I want to see more applicable skills from the experience already listed. Education ✅ . Experience ✅ How does that experience apply to the position being requested ❓

[muted bridge]

a master's degree is also a huge boost, I just wouldn't want you to spend 4 years on a UG degree just for it to be useless for what you end up doing

[edgy mesa]

I don’t even know im just applying to every entry level position that pay below average and still can’t even get that

[muted bridge]

Both of his experiences are largely unrelated to what he's looking for, his projects are pretty basic, and there is a lot of white space. With a master's program, he can definitely work on his projects a little more and also try to find university-wide experiences to tack onto his resume

[balmy spade]

What are you applying for?

[rugged plume]

They likely did. When I've participated in technical interviews, usually the Engineers and Managers hang back for 15-30min to discuss their initial thoughts right after and if considering start an email chain with discussions sometimes. Seems like you being overly pessimistic may lead to stagnation and sounds like it may have shown in your interview like aban mentioned.

[rugged plume]

On the Networking portions is the role more geared towards Design/Implementation or Break fix/Operations focused?

[edgy mesa]

Everything no experience and data related so analytics

[smoky quest]

Your experience doesn't appear to relate to data analytics, so move it below the more interesting things. Resume are read top down and people will make the decision to call you back or not within 30-45s. So don't put the cool stuff at the bottom

Show, don't tell. Show how cool and difficult are your projects. What was difficult there to showcase your skills?

Look at other resumes from other entry level data analysts previously posted here for comparison. The average entry level applicant will have a stronger resume than that one

[balmy spade]

The goal of the resume is to sell you for an intervew. If you're getting interviews, your resume is working @edgy mesa . The interview is to verify your skills can be applied. That's why I'm looking for more specifically targeted skill summaries on your resume. You have retail experience, that's huge communication and customer service experience. How can you apply that directly to data related analytics? Think client requirement gathering, project scope review, feedback cycles and such. You know how to talk to people, sell it.

The side-effect of putting it on the resume is that you are thinking about how to apply your skills. You need that in the interview. When the questions come up, everything should be focused on talking about demonstratable skills the interviewers can put to use at their job. It's all a mindset.

[edgy mesa]

I’ve barely barely gotten any interviews because of how shit my resume is

[balmy spade]

Sure, a higher degree gives you more general knowledge, more experience in different fields, and more networking. All good things if you use them. But don't discount "oh I just worked at Big Lots, that's a nothing burger". Find the skills that transfer over and reword them so that others see that value. ((there are dozens of them!!))

[edgy mesa]

Thanks. I’ll rearrange my projects on top of my experience and spice it

I think I need to just restart everything and create a new resume with someone helping me like a counselor

[balmy spade]

You started a bit in soft skills at the bottom. You know you have them. Move them higher as recursive_error says. Get them into your experience fields. Sell them hard. Your value isn't a retail worker. Your value is that you can stand in the center of absolute chaos, smile, and continue working.

[edgy mesa]

Thank you

[balmy spade]

25 year retail veteran here. ;) Never sell the skills we learn in that environment short. You will work circles around others.

[edgy mesa]

@smoky quest where can I find the example resumes?

[pearl veldt]

elaborate

[smoky quest]

history of the channel

[pearl veldt]

reddit

[edgy mesa]

This guys resume mogs mines

[torpid birch]

afaik from what the dude said it is mainly just migrating stuff and automating stuff, he is just looking for basic TCP/IP

I already got asked the first time about DNS records, DHCP, Web Proxy, SNMP and some other stuff can't remember

[true harness]

they're targeting an entirely different set of jobs. you're going to have different resumes

[safe hull]

Any way u can get jobs for python if ur mid at it intermediate

[pearl veldt]

im surprised rem isnt proficient in c/c++ or any native language

[rugged plume]

Gotcha so may be a bit more DevNet focused than CCNA. Sounds like they'll probly ask you about some APIs. SNMP is def a big one as you can get alot of info from SNMP. People often forget how powerful a tool for automation it can be.

[balmy spade]

Other than the obsessive work ethic driven in nail by nail of retail environments; my communication skills with a customer service focus carried me while I rushed to learn all the technical stuff I didn't understand. I wasn't the best at technical, but I was fully experienced and capable of setting a client's mind at ease, joking with them as we figured things out, and always following through.

[edgy mesa]

He cooked bro im just a peon

[vital wyvern]

That resume is almost a year old now.

I'm syntactically familiar with C/C++ and can navigate both of them.

[pearl veldt]

ah yeah, all my days working as a retail associate really helps me as a supervisor. associates are like customers

[rugged plume]

It may be prudent to put a anon resume template in the chat to be used for people to help build a solid resume for themselves.

[balmy spade]

Yeah, there is the issue of comparing a new entry to the resume game with someone holding a decade or more of experience. Be cautious how you compare them.

[torpid birch]

Probably something like that, the HR dude just told me to study networking and python without any context. Not going for the job honestly they are sketchy on the money side, first tell me X and then tell i "look like a junior" based on some questions that are not even for the main role, just a plus 😄

But it gives me experience on interviews

[sand patio]

generally, getting a job is more than just knowing a language. going to school and getting a degree is the path of least resistance into a SWE career; how old are you?

[rugged plume]

That's fair. I would def recommend learning Python for sure. Networking really just depends on if you want to be in that space. I'm a Network Engineer so for me its big, but for normal developers you don't really need Networking knowledge past Net+/CCNA level really if that much tbh.

[unkempt flare]

anybody using levels.fyi?

[safe hull]

15…

[balmy spade]

For reference, sure.

[rugged plume]

I've used it to gague pay when applying to FAANG companies before. A buddy of mine over at Apple used it too and was semi accurate back in 2021 when he went over there

[edgy mesa]

If that was the case I would’ve been a senior data analyst by now

[sand patio]

so generally you aren't going to be working as a SWE when you're 15 - have some fun for now, build stuff you like.

[edgy mesa]

Should I include my two jobs now into my resume? I work at target and do DoorDash

[torpid birch]

Yeah i know some python, i've been the automation team on my department, config change, info gather, network testing everything in bulk, stuff like that

[pearl veldt]

i have this same question too

[sand patio]

I'm not sure where you live, but there are labor laws and whatnot which make it hard to employ minors for those sorts of full time positions.

[balmy spade]

Yes. You should always include your recent work history unless you have legal reasons to not disclose it.

[pearl veldt]

recent being?

[rugged plume]

Yep, I put my retail experience on my resume when I was going for a NOC job back in 2019

[balmy spade]

Whatever fits on a resume to 10 years.

[edgy mesa]

So include from big lots, to Amazon , to target/doordash?

[pearl veldt]

you worked at amazon?

[edgy mesa]

Yeah as a warehouse associate… nothing cool…

[pearl veldt]

i became a PA within my first two months

[rugged plume]

I would say the past few years depending on how many places you've been at in the timespan. You want your resume to stick to one page until you're midway in your career

[edgy mesa]

im a peon destined for failure

[balmy spade]

If you have room for it. Remember, you want selling points that apply to the job you want (not the job you had). You aren't trying to get hired at Big Lots again.
List all the recent job history that fits comfortably. If Doordash is just a single line to make room for the Amazon experience, so be it.

[edgy mesa]

If you would’ve told me 4 years ago I would be working retail and food delivery I would’ve laughed in your face… waste of a degre

[pearl veldt]

god put you here for a reason bro

[rugged plume]

So was I back in 2016 when I was 20 years old working nothing but food service/retail. We all start somewhere

[edgy mesa]

Should’ve studied accounting

[rugged plume]

My sister just got her accounting degree and is struggling to find work atm. Its not always greener on the other side

[balmy spade]

Never too late. You'll need food and shelter in the meantime though so get a job that you can do and pays for the next step!

[edgy mesa]

No way 😭😭😭

[rugged plume]

She works in insurance so she's gainfully employed, but she's had her degree for near a year I think

[edgy mesa]

Brutal bro brutal

[rugged plume]

The point I'm making is you have to put in the work. You may have to start on the IT route and get a helpdesk job to start getting hands on tech experience. You can always pivot to development at some point

[edgy mesa]

@balmy spade would a shift into an entry level position in financial analytics be feasible? I know excel pivot tables and vbas

[pearl veldt]

bro put the word out at your workplace. let your managers know you can code and stuff. i did that with my managers and now they have me writing special programs for them, and getting recommendations from them. now everyone at my warehouse knows im good with computers and programs

[rugged plume]

How I made the jump from retail to tech support was that I was doing more than I was supposed to. Fixing machines and things on the side which helped me in my interviews so someone took a chance on me

[pearl veldt]

and thats good because now i have my vouchers to help me get a swe interview

[balmy spade]

I don't know the field so I can't advise on what additional skills you might need. You're a recent alumni according to your resume. Hit up the career center! Chat with the school's department director for financial students. They talk to recruiters all day and know what your area is looking for.

Yes, you can make that shift.

[vital wyvern]

for what it's worth my resume looks a bit more like this now.

[pearl veldt]

secret clearance

[rugged plume]

Are those GIAC certs from the air force? Those are expensive AF to take

[pearl veldt]

i like this. no fancy nonsense

[pine sleet]

bro cooked

[rugged plume]

True indeed

[vital wyvern]

Achievements will probably be thrown out in favor of highlighting some of the stuff I'm working on at work right now, as it stands there's not much important in there that I think can't be wrapped up elsewhere.

[pearl veldt]

maybe make the separator lines more thicker. they look almost nonexistent

[balmy spade]

@vital wyvern Bruh, you can't just vague-name CrowdStrike like that.

[pearl veldt]

[vital wyvern]

I don't work for CrowdStrike

[harsh river]

[balmy spade]

Didn't even get your $10 doordash gift card either I bet.

[edgy mesa]

This man didn’t even graduate yet and is a senior position

[balmy spade]

Look at the past experience.

[rugged plume]

People can do that when they have serious talent/projects

Experience trumps certs and degrees 10/10 times

[harsh river]

you're actively updating your resume while employed, is that common?

[smoky quest]

yes

[balmy spade]

You should.

[harsh river]

TIL

[rugged plume]

I did it and I got a new job back in June. Keeping your resume updated helps you if you end up getting laid of or something happening so you're prepared.

[harsh river]

ah yes

• leveraged chatgippity and gemini to optimize popular OSS projects

[smoky quest]

and it's easier to type as you go than try to scratch the back of your memory 2 years later

[balmy spade]

I was updating mine last month and laughing with my partner. Almost 10 years in technology and it still reads as if I'm a sales rep/customer service specialist.

[rugged plume]

Thats a very good point as well

[whole flare]

V server mentioned

[pearl veldt]

arent you rems coworker

[balmy spade]

Speaking of which, I should go update the company name... again.

[harsh river]

no, they're mine

[visual flax]

should I change from mechanical to eletrical? I like the work as an eletrical engineer more but I'm slightly better at mechanical. 2nd year community college
do they really make more money

[whole flare]

errr.. what do you mean? also we should probably use #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[pearl veldt]

this is career related

[whole flare]

is it?

[near ocean]

Whose career

[pearl veldt]

wems

[harsh river]

you're technically his co-worker (of sorts) within vypr

[rugged plume]

Its all averages. Generally tech degrees work best. I'd recommend looking at common jobs for the degrees to see if that's something you'd genuinely like doing cause job satisfaction can certainly be work a 5-10% pay difference.

[whole flare]

well.. sure I guess?

[harsh river]

i think that's their confusion

[pearl veldt]

no

[whole flare]

then what are you talking about?

[visual flax]

I like both but allegedly eletricals make 15k more

[near ocean]

who says this?

[visual flax]

website I looked at

[whole flare]

You don't?

[rugged plume]

Pay is also determinative on location. California pays more than Ohio as an example. If it's national averages then there's large potential discrepancies.

Also do electrical engineers work more hours than meachanical? If they work 50hr weeks rather than 40 then that would help explain the potential pay difference.

[near ocean]

you mind linking or is this a secret website

[visual flax]

v

[near ocean]

that redirects to nowhere particular

[visual flax]

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Electrical-Engineer-Salary-by-State

[harsh river]

i made my first resume on X day and the next day i didn't need it anymore remember?
idk how resumes work in general

[whole flare]

fair enough, I tend to revisit my resume every month in the event that I have something new to add or replace

[vital wyvern]

You should always be updating your resume.

(Also always looking for a new job, if nothing else but so you know what you're worth and how to advocate for yourself come next raise.)

[balmy spade]

An extra bonus of keeping your resume updated is that you have the habit of recording worthwhile achievement which makes year-end self reviews easier to write.
((much to the dismay of my leader sometimes as they get the several pages of response))

[fringe sphinx]

It's probably great advice, I don't know anyone who actually follows that tho 🙂

[balmy spade]

BillyBobby, met Rem. Rem, this is BillyBobby. There. Fixed that.

[vital wyvern]

👋

You can thank the Air Force for that, EPR time has taught me that the only way to stay stress free is to continually track achievements and work on my EPR for the 11 months leading up to it.

[balmy spade]

It's so nice to just open the timestamped list of items and assemble the review.

[vital wyvern]

I got our managers on the concept of "brag sheets" recently which is just that-- any time you do some cool shit, write it down in an Excel document and timestamp it. Come review/promotion time, it makes it all worth it. Want a promotion? Keep a good brag sheet. Don't want a promotion? Don't bother.

[fringe sphinx]

An oldie but goodie: Air Force vs Grunts

[balmy spade]

And this opinion from the guy who almost got kicked out of high school for refusing to write a single thing down in our daily planners for four years straight.

[fleet reef]

Experience is the best teacher

[balmy spade]

I wrote a little python app called BragHook to help me to just that. All it did was keep a new file for the day and, when I was finished, fired that off as a webhook to Slack for my records.

[vital wyvern]

I was the same way-- I was a "homework crumpled up in the bottom of the backpack" student.

[harsh river]

are we all clones?

[fleet reef]

I was the “wait we had homework?”

[fleet reef]

You must be new here
Please proceed to the next bay to pick up your uniform

[balmy spade]

Some of us learn the hard way. But we all learn.

[harsh river]

https://tenor.com/view/woohoo-kevin-minions-the-rise-of-gru-minions2-yay-gif-5858078356750754029

[balmy spade]

If I did homework it was always somewhere in the text book, breaking the spine of the book one fold at a time.

[vital wyvern]

I did this as well. In fact... much to my dismay, I still do this. Write something down, fold it if it's bigger than the book, then jam it into the page where I was working on it.

If you take any book on my bookshelf and kinda' shake it while holding the spine, you'll get a confetti of poorly written information security scrawlings.

[balmy spade]

Little secret notes for your future self. Not as fun as finding secret fun-money in a winter coat but close.

[vital wyvern]

I occasionally stumble across notes like this in my Obsidian as well, which is a wonderful indicator that I was terribly bored by the current lesson.

[harsh river]

my only notes i have nowadays are notes generated by AI about work meetings

but this doesnt say much cuz im still lazy and leave it to the AI

[earnest sand]

I dream about joining Ubisoft when I get my bachelor's degree in software engineering... Do you guys know anything about working at Ubisoft?

[near ocean]

Im assuming its shit because its game dev and its also ubisoft

[visual flax]

Is a 9000 dollar difference massive in job salary?

[near ocean]

Per month? Year? Lifetime?

[visual flax]

Per year,

[fast fossil]

if it's 991,000 vs 1,000,000, then no

[visual flax]

90k vs 100k

[fast fossil]

that's a 10k diff btw

[thin rain]

guys do u think its possible to get a fully remote job as im getting my swe degree?

im learning coding by myself and im gonna go after my degree next year but for the mean time u think its possible?

[visual flax]

Possible probable no

[thin rain]

aha

[fast fossil]

idk, if you're considering the 90k job over the 100k job, you would likely have some strong reasons, to me, that is quite a big diff, to you, idk

[visual flax]

Idk I'm thinking maybe go to ee since I like it a little bit more than me(mech engineering

[smoky quest]

It's great for more advanced positions or if you want plan on emigrating

depends on your skills

[fringe sphinx]

There's a few variables here: if you're about to wrap up, then you're not in a +1 plan, then right?

So you're looking at waiting 2 years before first job.

[smoky quest]

higher education correlates with higher wages.
But it will mostly depend on what you do with it. If you just coast, you can't expect the same results than someone who locked in

[fringe sphinx]

My personal opinion is: better to enter the workforce now (rather than wait 2 years), and work on masters part time... unless you're in a +1 program, or are pursuing a specialty that is very graduate degree dominant (ie: data science).

(but, totally agree with r_e above)

There's a few other unless's, like: "can't find a good entry job" or "need it for immigation purposes" or "want to pursue a phd"

[smoky quest]

or in some countries that aren't as loose as the USA

[buoyant seal]

we can also add "just was not ready for adult life and wished to stay in university a bit longer, since it was free to pursue masters degree anyway"

[molten cliff]

Is mechatronics a good career option? or should i specialize in any given area

[fringe sphinx]

When do you need to select your Uni program?

[molten cliff]

ive got a few years to think it through, but gpa starts accumulating like- right now so i want to have a good look at what i want

[fringe sphinx]

I'd suggest: start with making a list of degrees that you're interested in. Then, pick a large Uni and look at the degree requirements / curriculum for each degree.

That'll give you a sense of what you'd learn in Uni. Then, go look at LinkedIn or other job postings for that field.

[molten cliff]

Alr then, thanks

[smoky quest]

and go to open doors at all the universities around you, even for degrees you aren't sure. You never know what you could learn and discover a passion for

[fallen sage]

is computer science degree cooked in the future

[true harness]

no

[fallen sage]

everywhere i see is mixed opinions

[fringe sphinx]

What degree do they think is good then?

[fallen sage]

its either they say its bad no jobs, or the others say its safe, and jobs needed

[fringe sphinx]

(social media is a cesspool of terrible opinions)

[fallen sage]

engineering i guess

[fringe sphinx]

What kind of engineering?

[fallen sage]

most engineering, cause to get a job in engineering u require a degree. which makes it a safe degree

[fringe sphinx]

But software engineering isn't safe?

[fallen sage]

however with comp science and software engineering u dont need a degree to get a job in that field

[fringe sphinx]

Eh, that's not really true in any useful sense. Good luck landing a (SWE) job without a degree.

(the exceptions are for people who work their way up to it with adjacent jobs and experience)

[fallen sage]

im applying for my unis next week and im applying for cs, its too late to change now but im just worried about job security

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

[fallen sage]

uk

[fringe sphinx]

I'm in US. It's common for students to change majors.

but, my real answer is: computer science / swe will continue to become more important and relevant. AI doesn't eliminate programmers, it makes them even more important (and productive).

[vapid jay]

Also note that no gen.ai company is even close to profitable

[fallen sage]

i wont be graudating for the next 5 years though, so that might change

[vapid jay]

if you want real security go into healthcare but healthcare workers in the UK are paid peanuts

[fallen sage]

its too late to switch now for me, cs is what im applying for.

[fringe sphinx]

Feel good about that. The field isn't "cooked". And, every engineering field involves a lot of software / software engineering right now. If you end up wanting to specialize in another engineering field, you can.

[rugged plume]

I have friends that've worked QA for Ubisoft iirc. Its not the best environment, but better than EA from what I recall.

[fallen sage]

in the uk, you cant really do that, ur stuck with the degree u are doing

[fringe sphinx]

You can get a graduate degree in a different field, no?

[vapid jay]

if gen.ai can take over SWE, then it can also handle every other white collar job

[fallen sage]

what do you mean?

[fringe sphinx]

You can get a Master's in another engineering discipline, even if your undergrad is in CS. You might need to take some pre-reqs tho. At least, this is true in the US

[rugged plume]

You have to consider taxes, your benefits that take pre-tax income like 401k as well. 12,000 a year is $500 a month for salary. Take out taxes at that bracket and say 5% for a 401k and you're looking at 300-350 per paycheck extra in net I would guess. Whcih can make a difference in some ways. But there's more to consider than money

[fallen sage]

nah not really, the masters will be msotly related to ur bachelors

[near ocean]

It doesnt have to be

(source: i am the source (i did both my bsc and msc in the uk))

[fallen sage]

depends on the uni, no?

[visual flax]

Yea that's true, ultimately though I think mechanical is for me. I'd really like to work in the aerospace field.

[fallen sage]

what uni did u study at, if u dont mind me asking?

[fallen sage]

so do you think comp science will be fine in terms of job security?