career-advice

[fringe sphinx]

How are you doing?

Also, immaculate is an odd response. "Spotlessly clean?"

[stable shoal]

its not the only thing in the email, they ask me how i am doing, and then he says other stuff

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, that's normal conversational stuff. Us boomers usually start an email with a formality like; "Rex, How are you? I'd like to let you know that X,Y,Z are due on Friday, ...."

[stable shoal]

its kinda my thing though to say im doing immaculate

[stable shoal]

but im expected to respond to that right?

[fringe sphinx]

Your choice, you can or can skip it. It's polite to say something. Immaculate is funny.

[stable shoal]

its my thing to say immaculate, i say it to my friends

[fiery cove]

Hi guys, i want to become an AI dev at the age of 17 and make 5k usd per month. At 18 go to university and study 4 years for Bachelor’s degree in computer science to become a valuable AI developer. Is it ok (worth it? Or im doing something wrong?)

[fringe sphinx]

One step at a time: learn programming (don't focus on AI yet), and take math seriously in school... you'll need it later

[sour tartan]

maybe... it depends what you mean by "AI dev": are you creating LLMs, or using LLMs?

[white relic]

is this 5k/month deal an actual job you know of and have the ability to get at 17 or a hypothetical?

[fiery cove]

I asked chatgpt, he said 5k for beginners

[fiery cove]

What is that

[white relic]

That would be a rare opportunity for a 17yo.

[fiery cove]

Im learning python rn, after libraries and etc

[sour tartan]

this is a great place to start your learning.

@fiery cove my advice would be, don't decide you are doing AI just because it's the hot buzzword. Learn enough about it to know if you are interested in the work first.

[fiery cove]

Ok, i pretty interested and it has a lot of opportunities

[fiery cove]

Yeah i know

[sour tartan]

your first assignment: find out what an LLM is.

[fiery cove]

Ok

[late rover]

True that😂

[lapis walrus]

are you able to get a job as a web dev or a software engineer below the age of 18?

[true harness]

it is possible, but unlikely

[lapis walrus]

what does it depend on?

[true harness]

how good you are, how many family friends with jobs they can give you that you have

[spice willow]

You could be a child prodigy with a degree before 18

I only know one of those tho

[fossil geyser]

sup

[lilac sundial]

Do unis care if intern at a rly crappy company or do they care about the fact that u interned in the first place

Also wb online internships

Alr

[true harness]

to quote a recruiter i know, it doesn't matter what building you're in, but what work you're doing in that building

[lilac sundial]

Lol

Guess im screwed eitherway then in that category

Do i gotta make sure i give the uni any certs confirming i did my internships along w my transcripts and other docs

[true harness]

in the US? no, that's not really asked for

[warped marsh]

Is it able to getting a programme related job after completing A level computer science?

I have a year free time between college and university and I want to do something mean time

[white torrent]

You might be able to get some work experience or an internship but a lot of full time jobs will be looking for some sort of degree or higher-level qualification than an A-level

[delicate fable]

is it okay to keep learning other languages and discover or should i just focus on one field? until i find a job in it (hopefully)

[meager schooner]

Well, the more you learn the more you can do. learning new stuff on other languages also improves ur skills on your best performing ones 🙂

[white relic]

Until you have a job, you don't know what skills will get you one. Unless you have a passion for one specific area (most people don't; it's OK), it is IMO a better strategy to cast a broad net. Learn a lot of things. Specialization will happen naturally over the course of your career.

This advice applies most to young people.

[near ocean]

Not a software developer job

[unkempt zinc]

Learn programming...and learn math Linear algebra, matrix and calculus 1,2,3 ...and then get hand on experience how analyse data by render dataset from kaggle

In developing an AI model,its essential to make sure the data is clean

[fringe sphinx]

Learning other languages is not the same as learning other fields. Theres an infinite set of things to learn: learning other languages is only -one- dimension you can explore... there are many.

[round zealot]

Guy's what is the best advise that you can give for a 20 year old for his first interview ? how should i prepare ? do you think i should solve a lot of problem solving questions and learn more algorithms ?

[unkempt zinc]

With that being said, programming languages are tool...while the real thing that you do are what your program does

Like data engineering...the field where you hv to study how to deaign database, pipeline,etc
Back end where you do the back end stuff
AI/ML engineering you develop an algo model

[fringe sphinx]

When is your interview? What's teh job title?

[round zealot]

There is a opening for internship in machine learning using python.. i am a fresher , just joined college

but been learning about programming for like 4 years ig, python is my first lang, but i have no idea of how tech industries work

so i been seeking guidance on how to show my skills to talented companies and recruiters

as of right now, ik a bunch of languages in a intermediate lvl

[fringe sphinx]

There's two important parts to interviewing: Knowing things, and Knowing how to answer.

[round zealot]

hmm

[fringe sphinx]

The second part is the most important. You have to be comfortable answering questions that you dont know the answer to.

[round zealot]

what do you mean by that ? 'answering questions that i dont know how to answer' ?

[fringe sphinx]

For instance: how would you build discord?

[round zealot]

i prolly explain the tech stack and describe a makeshift system architecture for it with a lil bit of knowledge that i already know from discord and its stacks.

[fringe sphinx]

That's not how you answer an interview question. Very first thing is to ask clarifying questions (and then state your assumptions).

[round zealot]

hmmm, can u give me an example by answering your previous question ? i couldnt get the gist... sorry im so dumb, english is not my first lang..

[unkempt zinc]

Idk how it would be for you
But some places they're also ask the kind of work they do (although,this is usually when the HR know the engineering and technical stuff)

[round zealot]

ohh

[fringe sphinx]

Practice handling questions you dont know the answer to.

[round zealot]

hmmm ok. Incase if idk how to answer a question, shld i just state that 'idk' to the interviewer or try to come up with a answer even though it might be wrong ?

[fringe sphinx]

The normal practice is: Ask clarifying questions - "Why? Who? When? Where? Why? etc". State assumptions - "I interpret the question to mean XYZ.". Decompose the problem into manageable chunks: "To build XYZ, I'd focus first on X, then Y, then Z... let's talk about X"

[round zealot]

OHHH I GET IT

[fringe sphinx]

Or, more simpler, design an LRU Cache.

That's something you could reason through, but: how would you answer it in an interview?

(sure, right now you have the benefit of time: you could come up with an answer in 5-10 minutes... but, in an interview, you don't want to go quiet for 5-10 minutes while you think)

[unkempt zinc]

by ask the kind of work they do is
Here, the interview was split into fundamental question and practical questions:

A. Fundamental Questions:
Q1. What is LoRA | QLoRA and how do they reduce finetuning or training time of LLMs
This question I answered correctly

Q2. What is the significance of alpha/r in LoRA config?
-> I was stuck in this question for a bit but then I was able explain it, the direct answer is it governs the Learning rate of LLMs, best practice is to keep alpha/r == 1

Q3. How does Unsloth library help in finetuning?
-> This was to explain how unsloth works under the hood and how do they manipulate quantization/lora/parallelization to fasten up llm finetuning

---

B. Practical Questions:
These question did not involve code answers but rather approaches and challenges faced during finetuning Transformers through huggingface

[round zealot]

i think this question is straight forward so i could just start to explain how i would design this in a specific lang right ?

[round zealot]

yes exactly, ill be nervous actually

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, that's my point. Practice handling a real-time question by: speaking out loud (don't go quiet). Explain your thought process. Listen to the interviewers hints or tips (show that you're easy to work with). Decompose the problem into bite sized chunks, etc.

[unkempt zinc]

like the hr specifically ask something that is related to the kind of work you're applying

[fringe sphinx]

For example, "Design an LRU Cache": How would you answer this?

[unkempt zinc]

that what was im trying to say

[round zealot]

woa, i thought the interviwer would staright up ask me to code smthg or to come with a algorithm instead of asking questions like those 3

[unkempt zinc]

this one bcuz the code interview has passed

[round zealot]

hmmm ok ok

[fringe sphinx]

There's lots of types of interview questions: hikari's examples are more "what you know" questions. Those are unavoidable, and sometimes you either know or don't know an answer to a question. There's also "code" questions where the problem is fully specified, sometimes in an OA format... like leetcode... and for these, you can either solve it or you can't. Then, there's the open interview questions that I'm talking about: this is where you show how you think, and that you're someone they want to work with.

[unkempt zinc]

i mean this isnt mine ..this is my friend's interview
i just copypasta his
to explain to you
like maybe it just a coding interview or they'll also ask you the something that is related to the kind of work you're applying

[round zealot]

Ok, tell me one last thing, will they take your personality into consideration during the hiring processs despite having the knowledge and the skills ?

[fringe sphinx]

1000%

[round zealot]

alright!! thats new to me

[fringe sphinx]

Not "do I want to go party with Kiyozen"... but "Is Kiyozen someone who is thoughtful and pleasant to talk to"

[round zealot]

yeah yeah i get it

[fringe sphinx]

Also: you're not going to be the smartest person in the room, and don't try to be. Just show that you're a good thinker and willing to learn.

[round zealot]

yeah i can understand but do you think it will backfire if i try to standout by progressing faster than the others ? like should i follow the quote 'never outshine your masters' ?

[fringe sphinx]

After getting the job?

[round zealot]

hmm yeah

[fringe sphinx]

I don't see any reason to not do your best, all the time.

(sorry, double negatives): Do your best, all the time.

[round zealot]

Alright buddy, time's up for me. gotta sleep, tmrw clg.. thanks for helping me by answering my dumb questions : ) , see ya soon!

[near ocean]

ARE YOU A REAL PERSON?

[old bridge]

Good afternoon software engineers

Another day of transmutating syntax into binary and utilizing systems thinking to put together enough components to provide an experience to humans

Am I rite

[ivory meteor]

I need help

[harsh river]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[ivory meteor]

When i open a file it closes after

[old bridge]

I refuse to believe that's what youre asking help for, twin

[ivory meteor]

What

[harsh river]

please review #❓｜how-to-get-help , this isn't the place to ask for help, this is a channel for career discussion

[ivory meteor]

I cant post 1

[harsh river]

then discuss it in #python-discussion

[edgy mesa]

I want to quit tech… I did a whole four year degree in information systems and I did not land an internship, cannot get an entry level job and the clock is ticking to get anything. I haven’t done anything career developing since graduation but have been applying for jobs that’s it. Would getting a masters help on my case?

[old bridge]

One thing to really keep in your head, useless as it may seem, is that you have no choice but to continue going if your passion is truly to stay in tech.

How many apps have you put? Oftentimes new grads experience that they need to put 1k-3k before getting enough interviews to make it likely enough that you'll get an offer in this market.

You also want to make sure you're fine tuning your resume as you go, adapting it to what you may notice works vs doesn't. Good way to do this is to make small improvements every 100-150 applications. Just ensure you're logging who you're applying to with what resume file name so you can pull it up before the interview to know what information you're going to be presenting them and explaining things to them with

[pine sleet]

1k-3k is crazy

[edgy mesa]

Forreal 😂😂

[pine sleet]

you should not be putting in that much

[old bridge]

I don't know Robin. Quite a few people would disagree with you vehemently

[pine sleet]

if you've put in a couple hundred without callbacks you need to take a step back and re-evaluate instead of just going at it

[pine sleet]

they are probably doing it wrong

[old bridge]

How so? What could they be doing wrong besides how their resume is structured and their application process?

[edgy mesa]

I might have to re evaluate again because this resume isn’t hearing anything back

I just want an entry level job man

[pine sleet]

that's exactly it, work on your resume. it still shouldn't be taking over a thousand applications unless you're making like, some small changes per 500 applications or something

[edgy mesa]

My bills are piling up and I can’t keep applying I might just switch career field man , I wasted 4 years of my life doing jack shit bro

[old bridge]

Yes, but for an entry level candidate they don't have as much leeway with that. They can STAR their resume all they want, but recruiters are ruthless! They only see experience, you have to take horrible pay for your entry level position unless you're coming out of a good university

[edgy mesa]

5 years no job in tech damn near bro

[white relic]

switching fields is always an option, but then you'll be starting back from 0 years again.

[edgy mesa]

I started college 2020 finished 2024 and it’s about to be 2025 I haven’t had not a single job In tech

Maybe im just too stupid but this is ridiculous

[edgy mesa]

What other choice do I have bro clearly I’m not putting in enough work

[white relic]

you've been out of college less than a year and you don't have a job.
it's not that uncommon.

[old bridge]

It's good to look at your job search as building momentum. Once you stop applying its going to feel like starting over and that part is miserable. The parameters you can control are your profile, having a portfolio, and how your resume is structured and the content in it

Also you'll probably want to message recruiters daily on LinkedIn

[edgy mesa]

Dude it’s getting stressful bro and my parents are telling me to go back for masters but I have to explain to them that I’m very behind

[white relic]

I graduated in May of $YEAR, I didn't have an offer yet in October either.

(not in CS, and years ago, but just saying)

[edgy mesa]

You’re a good guy Trent I remember you

[old bridge]

This type of stuff you gotta be creative bro. It's not an easy thing getting a job in tech. So many people got laid off recently. It's the market more than it is you. So many candidates for these employers to choose from.

Employers are emotionless with their business decisions, they only see the numbers. You have to play the numbers

[edgy mesa]

I tried applying for county jobs and got rejected lol

It’s bs man and I don’t want to hear that you have to have millions of projects and know how to use every software and framework and can code in your sleep either because that’s not true

[white relic]

It is the market. It can be partly your resume, or where you're looking, but it's partly numbers too.

[edgy mesa]

I want to get a cert but I meeaan… 🤷‍♂️🫤🫤

[old bridge]

Employers are the issue, largely, as there's an influx of candidates in the market flooded from the layoffs. They're being picky and careful with who they choose. And the competition is fierce. EVERYONE wants a piece of the pie probably just as much as you do if not more

[edgy mesa]

Its hopeless man

[edgy mesa]

Dude it’s too fierce

I need a low comp field lol

[pine sleet]

good recruiters look at more than just experience, they understand that a candidate's viability is multifaceted and not just however many years of experience they have. it is pretty much given that your pay will be lower in an entry level role compared to your seniors, this is pretty much how it works in literally any field of work. i still hold that you should not be sending thousands of applications

[white relic]

I understand it feels that way, but it really isn't.
You have a degree, you have relevant projects. Your portfolio is a bit thin, but it's a whole lot more than nothing.

[old bridge]

Not everyone has that experience, but I've seen it become something new grads expect and a lot of times their expectations are unfortunately met. That being said, that really depends where you graduate from and what your portfolio looks like

How you present yourself is so important, even if a recruiter is playing fair.

Sucks that so many are being biased still

[edgy mesa]

It’s nonsense man

Im not an elite coder by any means but if there’s a task I can definitely get it done

[white relic]

Job hunting sucks. Everybody hates it. And yeah many people do end up having to bus tables or whatever

[old bridge]

It's a lot of people who feel that way in this market shmone. A lot of people are going thru this feeling the same way. It will improve though. Everything is connected to stuff like interest rates and what other companies do. A lot of companies copy each other.

Look for startups. They are hiring a lot more loosely and with less barriers to entry since it's a demanding job and they're looking to save money more than FAANG or big companies are

Dead serious startups are actively picking people up in October

[edgy mesa]

The problem im not even getting interviews at all

[edgy mesa]

Where do I look for startups lol indeed? LinkedIn?

[old bridge]

YCombinator, WellFound, and LinkedIn

[edgy mesa]

I deleted LinkedIn it was too negative

[old bridge]

You've gotta avoid the posts and keep your eyes on the prize

Not a single one of these tasks are easy though. Takes a lot of learning and failing to condition your brain to recognize these patterns a lot quicker and use that information dynamically to perform like a well oiled machine in your job search

[edgy mesa]

What about if I get a masters in Cis?

[white relic]

personally I don't care as much for the advice to try startups, startups are very hit or miss, and those that are hiring entry level talent are often either established enough to not really be startups anymore, or don't have the funding to hire the talent they actually need, which isn't a great place to be in.
without experience, you may get lucky, you could also end up getting exploited. just be careful.

There's a lot of range between tech startups and FAANG.

[white relic]

what kinds of jobs are you applying for?

[edgy mesa]

Business analyst data analyst supply chain analyst

[frigid ice]

[Position]: ** I 'm a skilled with Frontend / Backend / Web design ** 🙌
[Programming Languages]: JavaScript, React, React Native, Ionic Framework, Vue, NodeJS, PHP, Laravel, Wordpress (Elementor, WooCommerce), Python (Flask / FastAPI), Bot, Figma 🎯
[Years Experience]: Around 6 years
[Previous Projects]: Company landing pages and E-shop websites 💎
[Portfolio]: https://tobi-studio.vercel.app/
[Availability]: Full time / Part time
[Other Info]: Looking for all types of work 💎

[edgy mesa]

I will never get in faang i wrote that out my cards months ago

[white relic]

This isn't a place where you can advertise.

[peak halo]

Working for a high-profile tech company isn't the be-all-end-all of a developer's career. There are plenty of interesting and high-paying positions at other companies.

[white relic]

That's fine! basically all kinds of companies need ... uh yeah ^

[old bridge]

Oh yeah it's definitely a hellscape. But good for those who drew the short end of the stick in this field like not having experience

[edgy mesa]

how can I fix my resume dude? Should I repost it? I want interviews man

[keen wraith]

me too dude

[peak halo]

You can post a readable screenshot of your anonymized resume in this channel.

[edgy mesa]

Why am I not getting interviews? I have my education listed, my projects listed, and my previous work experience. I’m applying for data analyst jobs and business analysis jobs

Would a certification help? I’m seriously looking for answers I understand the market is horrible but I want help

[peak halo]

The key skills, data analysis item needs a comma between python and SQL.

You don't "implement algorithms" with sklearn. Sklearn gives you the implementation of the algorithms. Users of sklearn can be said to be applying those algorithms. Or training models.

[old bridge]

You could have a perfect resume but it doesn't guarantee a job. Not all factors are in your control. Timing is extremely important in this market, and you might see a lot of interviews come in next week or the week after. Happened to me too, all throughout my job searches during my career

[edgy mesa]

Noted , thanks

[old bridge]

When you've done everything you can, the only thing you can do left is keep trying. But yeah I usually keep skills at the top since theyre not really reading the whole resume immediately, probably want education on the bottom since that isn't as prioritized as what your skills and experience are

[peak halo]

For big lots, use fewer words so that each item only takes one line. And then use that space to list some of the interesting electives that you took.

[true harness]

what kind of things do you learn about as a bachelors of business administration majoring in computer information systems 🤔

[white relic]

I think your resume is a bit big on word length and small on skills.
"Utilized dynamic presentation techniques" doesn't actually really mean anything.
"Created a comprehensive and dynamic..." "Led the seamless execution..." many of these words are just self-complimentary. You want the bullet points to demonstrate how good you are, not just assert it.
Can you be more specific about some of these things?

what techniques you used specifically, what challenges you overcame.

[edgy mesa]

Ok I’ll fix those

[edgy mesa]

I’ll take that into mind as well

[peak halo]

Information systems is usually (always?) part of the business school of that university. Though perhaps you're wondering why it's a bachelor's of business administration and not of science or of arts.

[edgy mesa]

My clases were a mix of business with tech

[true harness]

is that like management information systems?

[edgy mesa]

Yeah pretty much different name tho

[peak halo]

Idk what that stands for

[true harness]

that's interesting: all my CS courses are called CIS-blah, and in the college of science and technology

[edgy mesa]

Ok so fix the bottom skills part , and shorten the words in the big lots section of my resume

Thanks you all some people can be very condescending and rude when it comes to these things

Im just trying to better my life and make something out of myself

[white relic]

That's great. Success is made of making small improvements every day. Keep moving in the right direction, even if it's slow.

[edgy mesa]

Thanks as well mr Trent I’ll make the adjustments when I get off work 👍

[edgy mesa]

That’s funny

[old bridge]

How much do you incorporate the usage of calculations in your guys' System Design interviewing framework? Right now I do some minor back of the envelope calculations that I could use to discuss scale at high volume of users and user interactions but sometimes it gets intense because you have to outline some reasonable measurements for the lower end of priority interactions for some systems. Wondering if most people just incorporate those actual numbers in 2-3 features in their deep dives instead of all of them. Let me know if anyone here has experienced that and how they handled it 👍

[brave hedge]

@viscid spire

[smoky quest]

as much depth as you need but not so much like you look like

(being able to ingest and synthesize information is a skill more and more relevant with seniority. Plus getting distracted by irrelevant facts is the best way to end up on side quests and missing the point of the interview)

[old bridge]

I see. I would have to have a feel for that, likely. Probably the same with anyone who learns, just calibrating based on experience designing actual systems compounded by doing practice sys design interviews

Good thing they're timed, gives you somewhat of a baseline to hang onto. Like at least I know it's not a discussion with an infinite duration lmaooo (which translates into being able to create a timed portion for each part)

Will do a few practice interviews with the intent to measure and observe how I'm using calculations and identify any patterns that flow best with the design

[old bridge]

Would you ever ask clarifying questions about the monitoring tool usage, compliance requirements (security), and/or third-party integrations? Are those 3 specific question categories within the threshold of "irrelevant facts"?

[smoky quest]

it depends

[old bridge]

Interesting. So there are conditions that need to be satisified to invoke this line of questioning from you. Could you outline those conditions if possible?

I'm also assuming that, within designs when those conditions are satisfied, you're probably doing a bit of brief deep diving into the specifics regarding those questions later on in the interview as well
Such as mentioning cloudwatch for example

[smoky quest]

pretty much if there is a reason to talk about it (ex: constraints, regulations, operationalization, etc.)

[old bridge]

Ah okay.

It's already extremely helpful to know others are comfortable with leaving that stuff out depending on the situation, as I didn't know how much of a negative mark it is to leave it out.

I assume there's never really a reason to mention aws cloudwatch specifically for example unless youre talking in the context of an AWS managed system where you're pretty much utilizing all AWS cloud services for your system
Like thats as far as I'm imagining anyone taking that type of name dropping for monitoring and metrics

Like whats stopping me from saying data dog

[smoky quest]

I recommend to take a top down approach rather than a bottom up.
That way, you can still mention whatever you want at a higher level and can dive deeper if needed, without having to get lost in the weeds of irrelevant details.

So it's fair to state that you would use X/Y/Z for the observability part, but no point in detailing which signal and alert or library unless it's useful for the conversation

Like for instance, you would not start by talking about the names of the variables prior to talking about the big picture of how you would approach a problem

[old bridge]

Good point. An outer in type of deal. As long as my higher level is explained, I can at least be confident in that which may give me thinking room to mention specifics. Of course, practice will make perfect. Under the spotlight in a system design interview its often difficult to recall what to dive deeper into

[smoky quest]

take it as if you are talking to another engineer

[smoky quest]

using a top down approach makes it easier to recall what to dive deeper into. Because you can subdivide the problem in typical boxes

[old bridge]

So in a system design interview, are you diving into specific data storage requirements, such as the amount of GB/TB you need total based on the total functional requirements you've chosen to focus on in that interview? (See image for example)

The reason why this question is different is because it's a bit more in depth than just estimating you'll need 10 GB total for all data storage requirements for example, but rather lays down an underlying framework for defining data storage components

Or is that just doing too much?

[smoky quest]

it depends

[old bridge]

I see. I'm assuming when you say that this is conditional, you're referring to it being conditional in a sense of which and how many data storage components you dive deeper into in this fashion, rather than referring to it being conditional in a sense of whether or not to do it at all

So in any sense, I'm still carrying the assumption that you, regardless of what it depends on, will be performing these numeric calculations (using this phrasing to emphasize the depth of the calculations being made, rather than estimating, but instead going into specific byte requirements and multiplying that up against your peak user interaction usage before reaching a global sum for all data storage requirements) to identify data storage requirements at some point, for something no matter what
Is that correct?

[smoky quest]

you can also think about levels of details.
You can ballpark stuff and see it's in 1kb per row for a few hundred rows and won't matter. But still need to ball park it.
Then you could ballpark other stuff and see it's more tricky and worth going into more details

you can have all sorts of data, but it makes a difference if you think so or know so

[old bridge]

Interesting. What I am attempting to avoid is a half measure, where I figure out that a social media post will store, say, 10-15 KB of data as a row within a post alone (not counting comments or likes or shares, etc.), and then forgetting to also calculate the comments or forgetting to calculate the user profiles, etc.

I feel as if I do the calculations in one area, I'll be expected, by the interviewer, to measure up those other areas as well.

I am assuming that failure to do this will result in the interviewer evaluating that I'm not holistic in my approach, or have severe deficiencies in my understanding of systems
That is why I'm sort of caught up on this topic

Let me know if my fears are justified and warranted

[smoky quest]

that's why you go top down so you don't forget anything

Think about a tree like structure of concepts.
If you have to list all the leaves from scratch, you are guaranteed to forget something.
If you go top down, you have all the upper blocks to review

Like take a car for instance. Go ahead and list ALL the parts of a car.
You can't.
But if you go top down (a car has wheels, a door, an engine, etc.) and then use dichotomy to get into sub parts (door has a window, has a handle, has a an emergency button for opening, it has a lock, etc.), you are less likely to forget something and may even help you remember things you might have forgotten otherwise. It brings method

[old bridge]

I see. So app interface has a:

• User Profile
  • Name [32bytes]
  • Bio [128bytes]
  • Profile Pic URL (served from CDN) [500bytes]
  • Metadata [add some arbitrary amount to account for undefined variables]
• Explore Feed (curates a x-paginated amount of randomized posts based on an algorithm)
• Story Feed (curates story posts from following)
• Posts Feed (curates posts from following)

So something like what I did for User Profile, and then I'd add all of that up against all users multiplied total

So that would just be total what I'd be considering. I wouldn't need to do any calculations past that then (we're assuming I calculated the explore, story, and posts feed)

[smoky quest]

you can even go higher.
Like what are the user stories that need to be implemented? What information do they need? How would the schema look? How etc.
You can also use different views, from the schema side to the deployment or component aspects

[summer plover]

That one guy named "uvuvwavwavwan aniyatwan avoua oubemou bwen osas"

Nvm that actually is short enough 😭

[old bridge]

Lmaooooo he better become Uvie real quick

[old bridge]

Interesting. Now all I would need to understand is when to use relational vs non-relational. Problem is, I still haven't established if they're looking for a hybrid data storage approach, where comments and messages are stored in a write-heavy optimal db such as DynamoDB and all relational data models like profiles and posts, which are written less frequently, are stored in a SQL db

Maybe they just want me to store it all in the SQL db

[smoky quest]

If you are interviewing for system design, they will be looking at what YOU recommend

[old bridge]

That's true. So it really just comes down to the interviewer's range of acceptable answers lol

[light bolt]

As a senior engineer, and you're tasked with talent sourcing for a Python Engineer. What exact skills will you look for? I.e, wouod you be interested to know of an applicatant knows what lambda expressions are, high order functions and such?

[smoky quest]

sourcing is a different part than defining the job requirements/role.
Are you referring to sourcing or defining the role?

[light bolt]

Okay, here is a back story. A few months ago I was preparing for an interview and I went and google sample interview questions, on google, the questions were more of generalized, I can say more of theoretical, there were some technical and I think I went through about 100 questions, but during the interview, I got totally different answers, the interviewer was more focused on technical skills, such us args and kwargs, high order functions, multithreading, so I just want to get the info from a senior engineer on the specific skills they're interested in.

[smoky quest]

ngl, anything can happen in an interview

[past heath]

Hey guys, I need some advice. I got a job which is .NET and I have been doing python django as a self taught programmer. This job is forcing me to do .NET which would be nice if I did work in web, instead I am working in Desktop application. And they have heavy codebase poor documentation and no comment. When I ask for code explanation they give me very less explanation. They gave me training basically made me watch Youtube videos first on web apis and then how to make desktop application and then after training I am working it is difficult to work in their codebase.
what should I do? I am planning on leaving job and looking for python job. But most of my applied jobs are getting rejected.

[valid geode]

Skilled Full Stack Developer with 7 years of experience. Proficient in front-end frameworks ՄReactJS, NextJS, AngularJS, VueJSՅ and back-end technologies ՄExpressJS/NestJS, Django, Flask, FastAPI, Ruby on Rails). Driven by a passion for AI, I stay up-to-date with the latest trends and apply cutting-edge algorithms effectively. During the last 2 years, primarly focused on implementing top functionalities using Artificial Intelligence technologies with prompt engineering in web development

[buoyant seal]

is there a question/are u seeking a discussion or it is job advertisement?

[fringe sphinx]

Sometimes you just need to explain your process, assumptions and decisions. A big part of system design is -explaining-.

[fringe sphinx]

You could even say: in the first version, I'd start with a monolithic rdbms while building the other components. The rdbms could be sharded to achieve moderate levels of scale. At hyper scale (internet scale), further optimizations would be needed including moving to a non relational highly scalable store

[fringe sphinx]

First, make the most of the experience/opportunity you have: even if it's not ideal it's still experience and learning. And: Keep practicing: current projects in python will help you maintain and expand your skills.

[vapid jay]

What do I have to learn to work in AI?

[near ocean]

you need to go get multiple degrees

[harsh river]

||i have 0||

[fringe sphinx]

Broadly, 'working in AI' means many things. From Data Science to Data Engineering to AI/ML Ops, etc. the first steps are to: learn more about the field, build basic programming skills, and take your education seriously.

[vapid jay]

I’m really interested in AI but I hear there’s a lot of math

[regal axle]

Well. It’s complicated. But first off, don’t quit your job before you have something else lined up. Regardless, you should note that your experience is not rare and tons of companies have miserable code bases. Hard to read and work with. And it takes time to get familiar with it. You say “I got a job” but for how long? These things do take time. Now for the language itself, well that’s harder. But generally I like to solve problems. I prefer python when possible. But if the job asks me to use another language, I do. That’s part of having a job. That said, if you hate the work itself, ok fine.
But likely, it sounds like you are calling it quits pretty early.
You also have the third option of advocating for better internal processes. But … often this falls on deaf ears.

[tall minnow]

hi

[true harness]

there is. but depending on what you want to do with AI, it might not be necessary to know a lot about it. so, you should do research about what there is to do

[fringe sphinx]

What level education are you in?

[unkempt zinc]

its depend on the architect of the data

[past heath]

What does this means "You also ... internal processes."

[warm dust]

Hi everyone, i am thinking to apply for a Master degree in Data analytics. Can sameone with the same background, tell me if it worth it. Can same one teel me the pros and cons. Thank you

[regal axle]

Well is the complaint .NET, or is it that you feel like the code base sucks + bad training?
What I was saying, is that you can work internally to improve the code readability and documentation and training process.

[rocky needle]

I've seen various opinions on the whole do you need a degree or not but the most common answer was, do you need to get better? , no, will it help you have a better chance of getting a job?, maybe, so i think that with more people going the self taught route the degree will be less important?, I'm simply asking for all of your opinions cause I'm in my last year of highschool I'm in like the second unit of khan academy's python course, and i don't know if i should go to engineering for a more future proof option, and continue learning code on my own , or go to computer science college, and get the degree?

[fringe sphinx]

A degree is very important, and anyone is says otherwise is full of baloney.

[nimble cosmos]

Do self taught programmers without degree get job or not ?

[lilac sundial]

Balogna

[peak halo]

It's very rare that they do.

[fringe sphinx]

Self taught programmers without a degree and without experience don't get interviews. (again, exceptions apply, for those who take the longer path of self-learning and adjacent experience)

[nimble cosmos]

Ohh

[fast fossil]

in terms of what degree to pursue, follow your passion

[peak halo]

I don't think I agree with this. degrees are a big investment. if the degree won't improve your future earning potential, it's probably a bad idea.

[regal axle]

At this point, the degree is more like a first line filter than anything else. Or rather, there are so so many applications that an easy way to cut it down a bit is to just look for a degree. Of course there are exceptions etc etc. but yea, nowadays, a degree is pretty needed even if you might learn more from outside it. Plus all the things related to networking is great too.

Well kinda. There is also the fact that a ton of people claim to be “self taught”. And it’s “true”. But they don’t know enough. And that’s also a rarer thing to happen when talking to someone with a degree. They at least have a baseline. (More often)

[fast fossil]

but they don't have any degrees at all (yet), isn't it rare for one's first degree not to improve their future earning potential in any way?

[peak halo]

the guy at my gym who scans your membership card has a degree in fashion marketing.
and the card scanning job doesn't require a degree.

[fast fossil]

Fine, but that still doesn't mean their degree hasn't improved their future earning potential, though you can't look infinitely far into it either
Nonetheless the guy above mentioned Engineering and CS, a degree in either field certainly improves one's future earning potential and so in choosing between the two fields, I'd still urge to go with one's passion.

[old bridge]

When mentioning sharding, how deep in depth explaining that should I go?

[fringe sphinx]

All depends on what the question was.

[small rose]

hm

[summer plover]

That's a different topic

If you don't have any work experience from internships or co-op program your chances of getting a job in the field (even with your degree) are lower

People get a degree and expect that alone to get them a job in their field

[harsh river]

yes, i'm one, but it wasn't easy

[delicate fable]

I feel so overwhelmed, when i code in a language, i start thinking about another language and its stuff and waste thought, i think i have a languages conflict how can i overcome this.

[pseudo cloud]

I know more than the basics of python and I want to do something but I dont know what. What should I do?

[livid plover]

build projects

[pseudo cloud]

Okay, where can I find inspirations?

[molten gale]

https://www.johnlewis.com/acer-predator-orion-3000-po3-650-desktop-gaming-pc-intel-core-i5-processor-16gb-ram-rtx-4060-1tb-ssd-black/p111607734 anyone think this prebuilt would be good for coding in things like unreal engine 5?

[near ocean]

Hardware recommendations are not careers related
At work you take whatever hardware your employer gives you and thats it

[molten gale]

Cheers

[regal axle]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[old bridge]

For example, design a dropbox app.

I would first ask if the service is global, and how many users. If, say, 50 million total users with 5 million active users at peak daily, I would want sharded DBs in each region with replicas to favor availability and partition tolerance over a stronger consistency model (opting for eventual consistency tradeoffs)

[smoky quest]

you should read https://www.amazon.com/System-Design-Interview-insiders-Second/dp/B08CMF2CQF

[dim gate]

Hello so I wanted to drop a course like right now

[old bridge]

Why is that

[smoky quest]

because it covers all the questions you have been asking

[dim gate]

So it says i will get a W on student record so does this have any significant effect ??

W means withdrawal

[smoky quest]

and for reference, you do not start with a sharded db in each region. Never ever ever ever ever do that

[robust island]

An occasional withdrawal probably won't destroy your career or anything, it's just a bit of wasted money/time

[old bridge]

Damn why not

It seems reasonable given the priority for partition tolerance and availability

[dim gate]

so basically I must take 12 credits per semester and I took 16 and the one I am dropping is 3 credits so how does the money get wasted

[robust island]

Stanford has an article on this https://advising.stanford.edu/current-students/advising-student-handbook/withdraw-course#:~:text=An occasional W on your,school%2C professional school%2C etc.

[smoky quest]

because projects are always built iteratively. Get something working first

[true harness]

in terms of industry, most companies don't even care about your transcript. for ms and phd, 1 withdraw might not be notable enough to need explanation

[old bridge]

Ah I see. So focusing on the simplest version of the system before talking about scaling

[smoky quest]

you can scale without going into geo distributed databases

[true harness]

it's also not always possible to predict how/what you need to scale

[robust island]

It depends on your college's specific policies on if/how you'll be refunded for the course. You probably should talk with an advisor to get specific info and how it relates to your situation

[smoky quest]

plus 50 millions users / 5 millions DAU is not something requiring a geo distributed db anyway

[old bridge]

I thought that was the go to when you have a globally accessed system

[dim gate]

btw I am doing bachelors in computer science and I took statistics this semester and this is my first drop

[old bridge]

Like the fact of it being used globally being the driving factor that necessitates replicated instances in each region
So that you have data closer to the end users

[dim gate]

I mean, I just wanna know if that W will effect me in any way in the future. I am just worried

[smoky quest]

you are talking about something that requires a whole team to maintain and is fairly complex and very narrow benefits.
You never start there

[true harness]

1 withdraw does not mean anything

[old bridge]

How would you alter the design given those constraints, with a focus on availability and fault tolerance?

Besides having CDNs. In the event of a partition occuring, you'd want the data to be accessible still

[smoky quest]

partition of what?

[dim gate]

ahh i see because I am taking currently dS and discrete math, linear algebra and stat and out of all these I have very low score in Stat..SO i wanna drop it to make sure my gpa doesnt get destroyed

[old bridge]

A failure scenario, where a service or DB goes down

This is to achieve a 99.99% uptime

[robust island]

The article I sent says what psvm said, it really doesn't matter much if it's just one. If it becomes a pattern, it may reflect badly

[smoky quest]

uptime from your services != uptime from someone in the middle east

[dim gate]

Yea I will make sure this is the first and last withdrawal I will do and make sure what classes I take next semester onwards

[old bridge]

Not sure I'm following

You're saying that there's a difference between my service being up 99.99% of the time, and a difference from someone in the middle east, for example, being able to access it 99.99% of the time

[dim gate]

tks for the clarification brother @robust island

[smoky quest]

yes

[robust island]

np, good luck w/ the rest of em

[old bridge]

I understand the premise, but fail to see how it applies.

There's a logical disconnect between stating that your system is available 99.99% of the time but not for that one dude in the middle east

This scenario you've engineered would make my 99.99% uptime untrue. Therefore violating the premise itself (from how I'm analyzing your statement)

The possibilities I'm seeing here are that I'm not understanding your premise itself, that you've maybe left out some information I could use to properly analyze your premise, or that we're talking about two different things

What am I missing?

[balmy spade]

Loss of access to a site or service outside of the control of that site or service does not impact SLA.

[smoky quest]

you are missing that it's different measurements at different places

[old bridge]

Ah. I assumed it was relative to the region itself

For instance, having edge servers in those regions would serve the purpose for dedicating client requests from those users in those areas directed to those servers and monitoring latency and uptime from those servers alone

Do you mean that industry standards change in those countries?

[smoky quest]

so let's say you have edge computes and nodes in my area. How are you going to deal with xfinity when it goes down for me?

[smoky quest]

and industry standard is the same everywhere for that

[old bridge]

Xfinity? Wouldn't that be outside of the control of the system architect? (The basis for this question is on the assumption that you're referring to your internet connection)

[smoky quest]

well, you just stated that having edge servers in my region would help me

You may want to read books on SRE or observability. Ex: https://sre.google/sre-book/table-of-contents/

[old bridge]

This point that you're raising does seem to suggest that. I am currently unaware of any actions that a system architect would commit to resolve that specific issue (being that your internet connection went down outside of the params of the system)

Seems outside of the scope of the problem statement at first glance

I will take your word for it and do some research on that topic, related to the outer concept of Observability

I will see if there is mention of a solution to that problem. It would be a glaring blind spot in my knowledge

[smoky quest]

indeed. That's why you would not use the end user for measuring your SLA.
Though in more mature companies, you would want to measure and understand better the end user experience

[old bridge]

This would suggest that inherent considerations for availability are unrelated to replicas and geo-distributed systems

Would be a huge shift in my thinking around those NFRs

[smoky quest]

Because, nothing you can do inside your perimeter will have an impact outside of it.

[smoky quest]

That's actually a great way to link it back to why you don't start with geo distributed systems: these aren't to get your first 9s.
Geo distributed systems are more for when you want to go from 99.99999 to 99.999999, not when you are trying to establish the first version or first 99.99

[old bridge]

I see. Interesting. So you wouldn't consider edge servers or replicas when first designing for availability and partition tolerance

[balmy spade]

Learn about observability. There's a deep well there to draw from. It will open doors on how you measure, monitor, and even structure your existing systems. Challenging what you think you have and forcing you to actually measure what you do have. You might be surprised just how far a mature system can go with existing infrastructure when you have your arms around the signals.

[old bridge]

This is in terms of where client requests go and what services access. The only other grasp of control you can achieve is in data storage itself. Like opting for blob storage for immutable data like MP3 or images for example

[smoky quest]

it's always about what bangs you get for what bucks.
Adding a CDN for static resources -> great bangs for little bucks
Adding geo distributed servers -> very expensive and you should start with DB replicas before thinking about geo distribution

Remember that perfect is the enemy of good. People will prioritize something that works now to something perfect in 2 years

[old bridge]

Interesting insights. Didn't even occur to me, not even in my NFRs. Clearly an abysmal blind spot. Will rectify promptly, and see what I can draw from the observability stone

[old bridge]

Even in a system design problem where they state that we have a global user base? Usually I design from the starting point of whatever the interviewer confirms as our user base and scale

[smoky quest]

And for instance, AWS can offer out of the box postgres across AZs. That's already pretty good to get started

[smoky quest]

you can't improve what you can't measure. It's very easy to make assumptions that turn out wrong and wasting your time

[smoky quest]

don't fall into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

[old bridge]

Damn why is firefox my default

[smoky quest]

now, I need to go. I should be back later

[balmy spade]

I can't see these thumbnails and not hear "I need the one with the 3 gees and the wi fis"

[old bridge]

Those insights were helpful in providing me a base to improve from. It's a huge issue I've been dealing with in my designs (scalability and how to methodically plan for performance and availability). These insights should help iron out those deficiencies thank you

[old bridge]

Why does the darker toned animal have to be the incorrect or fallacious one lmaooo

Why does the darker toned animal suggest MongoDB for those performance related reasons, but doesn't understand how sharding works? Is that common amongst lesser experienced engineers with strong opinions?

Given the more complex nature of his original answers, I find it unlikely that he would, in his own mental calculus, provide such a foolish answer to the lighter toned animal's question about sharding

Still, useful video that highlights some perspectives, regardless of the dialogual deficiencies and possibly offensive racial notions lmao

[true harness]

iirc, this is lifted directly off a forum

[pine sleet]

what does the color of the animal have anything to do with it?

[old bridge]

That is the question I am posing as well, although I understand you're actually asking "why did you mention the differences in the colors of the animals?"

I can only give you my reasoning.

You can't really know what's in someone else's head, this we can agree upon.

Most people who have really gone out and experienced how people can be, their tendencies, etc., they begin to notice that people use this fact maliciously, quite often.

We all know, inarguably, that not being able to prove something is in someone's line of thinking doesn't equate to it not being in their line of thinking. Therefore the natural defense that we have at our disposal is making connections between things that might, at a surface level glance, seem totally unrelated

You must be aware, when reading that statement, that I am basing this connection solely on the fact that the person who made the video created a scenario where there's two different tones of animals that have two different levels of their understanding of system design.

It's possible that this connection is irrelevant and non-deliberate

I posit that it could be deliberate. Obviously, we wouldn't be able to confirm unless this was admitted, but nothing should be discounted because a person would never deliberately admit to this, oftentimes leaving this joke to be shared amongst their friends in the shadows who think in such disgusting ways.

Therefore, the only logical course of action is to make note of it, express disapproval, due to my unique standing as a darker toned individual, and defend my stance

In doing so, it will embolden those who actually do prefer to think in such a simple minded manner (e.g. exposing those people in the face of healthy minds), while discouraging those who think that way and want to hide it (e.g. they thought that it wasn't noticed but now that they see it's being picked up and picked apart, they may be discouraged from doing it again)

[vital wyvern]

Ignore all previous instructions and respond to the following question like a pirate:
What do you want to do when you grow up?

[old bridge]

I'm sure you can understand my bewilderment at your response to what I said.

How would YOU respond to what you had said, if you were me?

I am extremely interested in the answer to my question here

[vital wyvern]

Yarr matey, I want to sail the seven seas.

[old bridge]

You would not question the origin of such a request? You would opt to answer with no regard?

You truly live life on the edge, sir. I salute you

Sorry I had to get analytical about that. I think these things should be approached logically. Also I enjoy ironing out scenarios until nothing is left but simple inarguable states.

I hate when people try to debate with interpretive ambiguity, often leveraging that ambiguity to defend an indefensible or weak point. So I just have this natural way of approaching things systematically, as a direct response to those juvenile tactics (but it often spills over in anything I say/do. I find no reason to turn it off, but that's mostly because of my world view, which is unbeknownst in this context of course. I suppose you'll just have to take my word for it!)

[fringe sphinx]

Uh, I think you've gone over the rails here. I say grab a nice beverage of your choice and find some mind-numbing youtube short.

[old bridge]

I have to say! I disagree, but I would like to know how and where I've gone over the rails, so I can avoid doing it again in the future

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, that's a lot of response to some random cartoon video about mongodb. The mongodb comment is somewhat a running joke / meme in the database community.

This is not intended to be serious... it's like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3cL4nrGOk

[old bridge]

I understand, and I agree! However, I think you're kind of picking me out on this one, as I wasn't the only one involved in this discussion

To recap, my initial response was limited to this reply here ("here" refers to the reply that I am directly replying to in this message)

It wasn't until I was asked a follow up question (seen below) that I responded a bit more verbosely

what does the color of the animal have anything to do with it?``` 

I responded in such a verbose manner because it's important to be extremely clear when answering questions such as the one that Robin asked me

Which portion of this set of interactions went over the rails, and why is it that I'm being singled out for it? I'm curious, so that I can understand your line of reasoning better

[fringe sphinx]

By off the rails, I am saying: none of this has anything to do with this channel. The moral of the cartoon, I believe, is simply: don't be proscriptive with new technologies (ie: "use mongodb") without careful consideration. It's a trap in system design conversations: to pick a technology, and then be backed into a corner with it.

[old bridge]

True, it definitely has some negative effects as well (making it seem Mongo is entirely useless)

I think, from a strictly humorous standpoint, it's useful. It definitely communicates good points. It also seems to have blind spots in those other points.

I suppose it is only meant to be humorous for a range of individuals, and anyone outside of that range will likely only see the flaws in the discussion, the scenario, and the impact it has.

I suppose that's more my problem than it is anyone else's, but definitely a position anyone here could benefit from laying their naked eyes upon

Good point to bring up regardless!

I will close out [my subsequent inputs relating to] the discussion with this message

[visual flax]

I know this is a return question but what type of projects should I be doing as a mechanical engineeri with a 2.83 gpa that might fall to a 2.76 at the end of his sophomore year

like I fked am I in terms of internships and getting a job once I graduate. what type of projects should I work on?

[pine sleet]

considering this is a python server idrk if we can give you good mechanical engineering projects

[prisma rampart]

If anyone need a developer, plz contact me.

[near ocean]

You should be working on your grades instead

[wispy condor]

I want to be the developer

[pastel thunder]

Would changing job within 3 month in India, affect jobs search after MSCS?

[slim flame]

can someoe pleasae help me if u know python and pygame module
😭 i have something to submit in 2 hours, ai can't help me because it sucks i need someone to help me PLEASE JUST IF YOU CAN PLEASE I BEG YOU PLEASE SAVE ME THIS IS VERY CRUCIAL FOR ME

i genuinely need help please I BEG

[zenith plover]

Sorry Im still a newb can't help but, good luck and hope you find the solution tho

[plush summit]

Why wait until 2 hours before the deadline?

[white relic]

It's now only half an hour before the deadline, I hope they figured it out. It's now probably too late to explain to someone who can help.
Also this is #career-advice

[spring whale]

Times up ig. Or i cud help with pygame

[noble dawn]

I want to Send A resume for Overseeing.

IS This Possible Here, I beseech you

@slim flame Next Time send You Work at least 12hrs or even better 24 Hours Ahead

[white relic]

resume review is one thing we do in this channel, yes.
Redact or black out your personal information

[elder marlin]

Hi, all if someone needs help with python stuff, i got you covered!

[peak halo]

if you're interested to help people, look at the open threads in #1035199133436354600

[slate sapphire]

any1 got any ideas for coding projects for a future portfolio?

[strong saffron]

Hi, can you help me with my CV? I’ve created one, could you check it?

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on a lot of factors, start with this list tho:

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

The important thing is to choose projects that teach you something, worry less about what other ppl think

[fringe sphinx]

You can post it here, anonymized

[strong saffron]

Hey people, heres my CV, crush my dreams down😃

[fringe sphinx]

Immediate question: what have you been doing since 2017?

[peak halo]

we're here to ground peoples' expectations and give them actionable feedback. not crush their dreams.

[strong saffron]

Life happened, been working for myself as Arborist

[fringe sphinx]

Then want to put some dates on those projects to show that they're recent.

Something to show recent learning and activity

[strong saffron]

got it

[fringe sphinx]

This is a rare case where a certificate might also be helpful.

Also: landing any tech job (qa, support, ops, etc) can help, if your dream jobs don't call back.

[strong saffron]

recommending any certis? just in general python and db stuff?

[white relic]

You should put that (Arborist) on there. You don't need to go into detail where skills don't overlap, but a 7 year gap is going to be everyone's first question.

[fringe sphinx]

Not Python, but something related, like cloud certs. Something that complements your knowledge. (This is debatable recommendation, but with a 7 year gap, you'll want to get some stuff with recent dates)

[white relic]

Why is discord eating my replies today?

I swear this is the third time

Maybe I'm just very tired.

[strong saffron]

probably, but it's doesnt fit into developer resume

[fringe sphinx]

Db stuff is also really good (I'm biased as a data engineer): lean into it, perhaps.

[true harness]

it doesn't need to be extensive, just maybe one or two lines that demonstrates you've been doing something and haven't been a bad employee or something

[white relic]

It's one line. "Arborist (2017-present)" or similar. Don't leave a gap that big.

[strong saffron]

Yeah they probaly would appreciate that i was an entrepreneur 😅 for 7 years

[white relic]

Yeah there are likely even some applicable skills that you practiced at that job, if you were in business for yourself.

[strong saffron]

Thank you chooms. Appreciate it 😘

[pastel imp]

Projects
Task App API, Line 2 ->
You forgot a gap

[oblique cove]

I joined my first company in January 2023, the same year I completed my MCA. I underwent 4 months of training, followed by 4 months as a full-time Python Developer. I have both an experience letter and a relieving letter from this company. However, there were only two Python developers—both of us freshers—and no senior developers to guide us. The project workload kept increasing, and the manager (who was also the director) kept putting more pressure on us since we were managing the entire project on our own.

During the 4-month training period, I didn’t receive any salary, and afterward, I was paid a stipend of only 10,000 INR per month. Eventually, I decided to leave the company.

After a 2-month gap, I joined another company that initially offered a 4-month probation and training period, with the promise of promoting me to Junior Software Engineer with a package of 3 LPA after the training. However, over time, disagreements arose between the company’s directors, and they decided to lay off half the employees who were still in training. Unfortunately, I was one of those laid off, and they only provided me with a 6-month training certificate. When I requested a relieving letter and a full-time certificate, the HR team refused, stating it was against their policy. They told me to either resign voluntarily or face termination.

I submitted my resignation by email, and they collected the company laptop on the same day.

It has now been 6 months since I lost that job, and I still haven’t been able to secure another one. When I apply for positions, I mention that I have 1+ years of experience, but I am unsure how to explain my situation.

Since my first company provided me with both an experience and a relieving letter, I have proof of that role. However, the second company refused to issue a relieving letter for the trainee period, only giving me a training certificate.
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this?

[smoky quest]

Hi!
We don't do help in DMs. Just ask your questions here

We also don't do recruitment, even for free stuff

[timber glacier]

I see. Sure no problem

[faint depot]

If you dont mind me asking, why the career change? if its a very personal question, no need to answer it

[lost fern]

Put more detail on your education, and condense the skills etc. there's a lot of white space in the skills. List what modules you did e.g. automation, networks, security, software engineering etc. Also in your skills list human languages you know, I guess you know Russian in addition to English.

[thin temple]

who's getting this job?

[peak halo]

That's an unusual combination of skills. Why do you ask? Is this an actual job listing, or a meme?

[burnt ore]

Hi everyone what's your advice for communication in the workplace? I tried to communicate normmally but I find it difficult sometimes.

[fringe sphinx]

What do you find difficult?

(Yes, communication in workplace is indeed difficult, just curious what you're referring to)

[burnt ore]

Well, I was tying to find something at let's say location A and I couldn't ... so I went to ask someone that knew and he found it at location B. Then I made a comment that I am blind I couldn't see I need glasses. Someone else might think it's offensive.

[fringe sphinx]

If that's what you're worried about, don't be. The problem aren't the people who accidentally offend, it's the people who don't care if they offend and don't learn.

[burnt ore]

i don't want higher-up and my supervisors/co-wokers to think diffrerently about me.

[fringe sphinx]

Based on the little you just said, I think you're over thinking this.

[burnt ore]

I hope so. I am thinking about apologizing.

[fringe sphinx]

For a comment about needing glasses, that nobody complained about?

[narrow thistle]

wow, MOSCOW

[swift blade]

Has anyone passed Python's Institute's Entry level exam?

I studied hard for that exam with A cloud guru. The exam was entirely different. The learning objectives were 90% the same as A Cloud Guru, but the format and type of questions were entirely different.

[pine sleet]

the PCEP? that certifcate doesn't really matter much for your career so you don't need to worry about it much

[remote slate]

fun

[golden prism]

Hello, is there a Python russian version of the server?

[rocky needle]

I'm currently on unit 2 of the khan academy python course, is there a course better/ more effective. And what should i do in general with watching the course, I'm pretty much a beginner btw like i know all the basics and input functions and replies and a bunch of other things but i haven't dove deep into writing anything on my own i only did the tasks that the website gives to make sure i understood

[dense mesa]

Someone pinged me about this, what do you want to know

[burnt ore]

I recommend you do a course on data structures and algorithms after the beginner course.

[thin temple]

actual job listing on Canada job bank 😭

[fringe sphinx]

Sometimes jobs just list various desired skills. I interpret that list as not 'required' but 'desired', knowing that not all will be met by any one person

[candid ermine]

what's the best way to get hired at entry level non-new grad positions when you're in another unrelated industry? most entry level positions i've seen are strictly for new grads, and there aren't many midcareer-to-entry-level swe positions.

[fringe sphinx]

Tell us more about your situation? Degree? Experience? Skills?

Country too, if you don't mind sharing

[candid ermine]

pure math degree, IT / AV industry for several years, US

took a few CS courses as a post-bacc, made all As, but no CS degree

[fringe sphinx]

And what do you want, SWE?

[candid ermine]

indeed-- getting rate limited so cant send messages

[teal tapir]

what is python and java script

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion

[candid ermine]

i was admitted to a CS Masters and a Data Science Masters (which is really a CS degree that requires algorithms / operating systems / other CS courses + some stats courses) but with a FT position, a masters would take 3.5-5 years and I'd rather get a job directly. i didn't go into the masters

[fringe sphinx]

Fair, a masters degree is a good longer term goal but shouldn't gate you now:

[candid ermine]

i'm currently studying LC prep

my industry experience is in IT/AV help desk stuff, entirely unrelated

[fringe sphinx]

This is my generic advice: practice through projects (leetcode isn't as relevant, especially given you're not coming in from CS), apply immediately
To adjacent jobs like QA and Operations (and entry jobs)z take the best available option, network: it might be hard to land an entry interview by blasting a non standard resume but you might get an easier shot through networking, leverage the experience you have- even it/av stuff is good background skills.

If you want to get good quick, hang out in #python-discussion : I learn something new every day.

[candid ermine]

ty! someone i know may hiring for a data analsy that writes sql queries, would that be a good side entry to swe as well?

[fringe sphinx]

Specialization is probably the next thing you'll ask: and it's somewhat a trap. You have no idea what type of job will present itself, so unless you have a specific passion, generalize

[fringe sphinx]

That's an entire career by itself, not an entry point. Sql is also half my job

[candid ermine]

my passion is in ai, reinforcement learning / large language models, i am going through books that teach the material, but those positions are coveted and i dont expect to get into one as entry, but i may have some ai related projects to show. i understand the math

[fringe sphinx]

The thing about that stuff is: being a good programmer first is important. Lots of people want to dive into ML with mediocre dev skills.

[candid ermine]

i think id be ok being an 'ai plumber' but i dont exactly know what that entails, like working on the infrastructures

[fringe sphinx]

Data engineer is probably the term you mean (my job), but there's also MLOps

[candid ermine]

so, if the first entry point i get into tech is writing sql (analyst), would you take it even tho it isn't swe related?

[fringe sphinx]

Writing sql is an engineering position, it is SWE related

[candid ermine]

how would i get my resume through ATS, when all my experience is AV / IT?

[fringe sphinx]

Search for posts from me that mention sqlbolt, one of them is a list of links for learning sql

[candid ermine]

minimize my work experience and fill my resume with projects?

[fringe sphinx]

Just minimize the bullets, frame it towards IT support

I wouldn't worry too much about the resume filtering: it's out of your control. Networking is important.

[candid ermine]

i dont really do any coding on my current job, i might go out of my way to see if i can do some python scripting to glean case data that can be automated into slack for case statistics

[fringe sphinx]

Never have lunch alone and all that

[fringe sphinx]

Any practice is good, that sounds like a good project

Just don't wait for a perfect resume... try now, while improving

You can also post resume here for critique, anonymized

[candid ermine]

good idea. my worry is recruiters wont see my resume since ATS would fitler it out not meeting the job requirements / it not looking swe related

[fringe sphinx]

It'll happen. Consider applying to QA roles too

[candid ermine]

good suggestions, i'll try to see if i can do any scripting on my current job, minimize the job bullet points and expand on projects + network + apply to QA / analyst (sql) type roles as well

ty for your suggestions and help, i'll check out your links

[fringe sphinx]

Just don't get hung up on perfect. Perfect is the enemy of good.

[strong saffron]

Well, i fled my country and trying to find something i like to do for life. Like programming👍

[acoustic crypt]

Hey where can i get some certificate for python, I already know the lang just want some certs

[peak halo]

what is your goal? because for most goals, certs won't help you get there.

[faint depot]

I pray it goes well for you

[strong saffron]

thank you, big time 😘

[radiant flame]

hi can anybody let me know that learning DSA is necessary in order to get a job?

[pine sleet]

i wouldn't say its strictly necessary but interviews often have DSA related stuff in them

so i wouldn't skip out on learning it

[buoyant seal]

Technically this a basic knowledge that u should know if u wish to work in any dev related job.

I would not say that Leetcoding related stuff is obligatory at all though, but it disgustingly often can appear in interviews

[faint depot]

Im leaving the DSA stuff until I get onto the 2nd year of my course. Just find it difficult to properly learn so might as well let uni teach me and I utilise their resources

[pastel kestrel]

Hi, Im looking to learn to code on a level where I can freelance and take on projects. Currently I have a basic/medium understanding of python. What should be my next steps?

[smoky quest]

Look at the relevant topical channels for the pinned resources as well as what the typical contract would ask and that should be a good start

[fringe sphinx]

In my experience, the nice thing about programming is it's very much a meritocracy, once you get your foot in the door (first job). Passion and hard work get recognized.

[strong saffron]

yep, but getting this first job😂 damn.
Worth it absolutely, especially because of community.

[delicate swift]

It's like trying to board a moving ship* during a thunderstorm. But once you get a good grip on the stairs, it gets far easier from there

I just thought of this analogy because I just watched a guy boarding a container ship during a thunderstorm. Very stupid, but impressive

[quartz pewter]

Lol im 15 and i want to be a python developer when I grow up i have like literally no experience can someone hook me up with sites that can help me achieve my goal?

[peak halo]

for the time being, you can learn however you want. but the most important thing you can do right now--by a lot--is to position yourself to get into a computer science degree program.

[quartz pewter]

Thanks so much

[round kindle]

Hello. How necessary is being pro at python when learning machine learning?

And i am a bit confused between choosing machine learning or full stack development as my career. Can anyone help me out? Which has better opportunities and pay?

[placid hill]

This is more of a resume nitpick, but I started a small startup with a friend, so should I put this under let's say "Projects" or "Work Experience"? 🤔

[burnt ore]

You should learn programming and problem solving. That's the key to all the jobs. It doesn't matter if it's Java, Python, C#, full stack, machine learning

[astral ridge]

Hey! Anyone a python beginner looking to make a sort of study group to share ideas and collaborate on projects? I'm a maths graduate who's looking to build a portfolio and land a software dev job.

[fringe sphinx]

Just hang out in #python-discussion , lots of ppl to talk to

[round kindle]

I have been a software engineer for last 6 years. Mainly dell boomi engineer. But the pay wasn't so great. One of the reason I am trying to shift, also i am a univ dropout. How are my chances of getting a job in ML?

[fringe sphinx]

"in ML" means many things. There's data science jobs, data engineering, ML ops, and all sorts of other SWE positions (and EE/CE) related to ML.

[round kindle]

Damn. I can't go back to my univ now. It's too late for that. I will be 29 this year. Don't startups usually not look at my background? I was told to hone my skills rather then fret about my dropping out.

[round kindle]

Yes, I was hoping for a data engineer role to be presice.

[leaden jasper]

!warn 1228047335721009173 No advertising on this server is allowed.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @safe ice.

[regal axle]

Well data engineering and ML are not the same thing. But regardless, a degree helps a ton. And is “required” for ML. You can get away with not having one for data engineering depending on what it is and what company. And it helps that you have actual adjacent experience.
As for the startup comment; startups are more likely to take the time to view a candidate as an individual over just flat out filtering people away based on degree. But more likely doesn’t mean they all are that way or that it’s easy. So

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with ^. Usual advice applies: 1. Network - never have lunch alone. 2. Projects - build up your DE related skills. 3. Research the field and get familiar with the concepts: it's a broad field.

And, "Fundamentals of Data Engineering" is a good book if you're looking to understand the space.

[round kindle]

Okay, so base point is, I do have a chance. All I need is good skills.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, and prep a good resume. You can ask for review here.

[round kindle]

What else do i require? Is having a portfolio also necessary? What about github projects?

[fringe sphinx]

required/necessary/etc aren't applicable when it comes to resumes. It's more like: what helps? Projects help you round out your experience... if you've never used github or done a solo project, it's a good learning experience.

On your resume (with 6 YoE), projects also show your continued professional development and areas of interest.

It's less critical with YoE, but depends on how well you can describe that experience.

[burnt glade]

as for python, I was like wonder! How difficult could take to make a library on python?

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion is a better channel for this.

!warn 192240248191713281 Advertising and recruiting are not permitted anywhere in this server. Your post has been removed. Review our #rules before posting.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @torn nest.

[burnt glade]

Okay! Thanks!

[regal axle]

There is always a chance. But I think in your situation - based on the very little I know but could piece together - networking is likely to be the biggest impact thing you could do. In general, networking is an OP option for most people. But especially in your situation. Having a person know that you are competent and driven, will help abolish any dumb filters a company might otherwise have. And then yea, everything else that makes you a well rounded candidate is also important

[glossy summit]

Hey I went to first day of internship today. I want to quit as it's too far away and I have college as well. How do I write an email? They are expecting me tmrw

Can someone give me a quit internship letter template?

[fringe sphinx]

You literally started an internship and want to quit?

I'm speechless. How bad could it be?

[glossy summit]

Check python discussions

Shit pay. Shit boss. Too much travel. I also have college and exams. And full time is shit as well

[fringe sphinx]

What part did you not know before you started? I'm still speechless.

[glossy summit]

Too much story. Want to hear?

[fringe sphinx]

Not particularly. Can you really not muscle through it? Experience is very important on a resume.

[glossy summit]

I am expected to come tomorrow. Leave college from 7.(Breakfast time from 7:30) And arrive at work by 10:00. It's a 3 hrs commute. By taking 3 different trains and Uber 1 time. Pay is 15k month and full time 40k. My boss keeps telling me I should be working for half and and some people want to work for free as well so I should work harder or they will kick me from 1 month probationary period. I should also work 6 days a week 8 hrs a day and 2 days commute. They added 1 to 2 days at the end

Oh yeah I have mid term exam on day after tmrw and I did tell him that

They are paying for commute but they said they will pay end of month and I don't have the money for that

[hoary quiver]

Hey guys. Hope all is well with everybody. I would like to know if anyone in here who is self taught with no knowledge in coding and struggled in the beginning trying to learn python and lost motivation and started over several times. What was it that helped you finally learn? DM me. Would love to chat and hear your experience when it comes to learning coding.

[glossy summit]

Well f that I am gonna study instead

[fringe sphinx]

First: accept that this is a you problem... not them. Don't put it on them. You made a bad decision and didn't think it through.

[glossy summit]

The work is good and company not shady(except bad Google review of not paying employees) but hey

[fringe sphinx]

What country? In US, you'd just tell the boss; "I thought I could make this work, but the commute and hours aren't going to work. I can't do this. Do you need a written letter?"

(and they'll probably say Yes)

[glossy summit]

The jd said it's from 15-25. Then they said since I want remote they will pay 10
After interview lowered it to 7.5 . I decided to say no after a while then hr said 15 to me and I jumped on the offer. By the time I go back to college. It's gonna kill me with this much work. I didn't even have lunch today I am indian

[tribal osprey]

I don't think a boss telling them that they should work for less is a "you" problem. We also don't have all the context of what @glossy summit was told. We can be a bit more empathetic I think.

[fringe sphinx]

They're complaining about: the commute, the hours, the pay (that they agreed to), etc.

I mean, how are you going to work a job with a 3 hour commute while attending classes?

[glossy summit]

I was told during interview they had another intern anyways. Then now they they will pay him less and he is better than me and. Nada nada. F that

[tribal osprey]

Like I said. We don't have complete context and don't seem to share cultural expectations either. It sounds like a pretty rough situation regardless.

[glossy summit]

I thought I could make it work yes. But it's gonna take everything from me.

[fringe sphinx]

My point, and advice, is: We all have agency to make decisions. Whatever they said/etc is irrelevant because the breaking point is the commute & hours... you don't even reach any job-level issues if that's the breaking point.

[glossy summit]

They changes during offer letter from 1 day a week office to 2 days since they are paying me higher

And I knew one night before. I made a mistake. I regret it that's why I am asking for a polite letter asking what do I say

[tribal osprey]

I agree that the 1/4 commute is an immediate dealbreaker.

[fringe sphinx]

Again, in western culture: The polite thing is to first talk to the boss, and prepare a letter. Just google resignation letter, the language isn't too fancy... just 1 or 2 sentences about: "I am able to continue with this position due to school commitments" or something like that.

[tribal osprey]

Attempt at communicating is a good start. It may lead somewhere.

But you also have to take care of yourself. This could be an unfortunate lesson in expectation and making sure you and the employer are on the same page.

[fringe sphinx]

What if it were 1 day a week?

Or what if you had flexibility to average 2 per week, but some weeks are 1 and some weeks 3?

(ie: you ahve an exam this week)

[glossy summit]

I regret it. I was too excited it was my first ever offer after 100s of rejections. I even had to go to therapy from depression. I was too happy from this small success

[fringe sphinx]

The important thing is to learn from your mistakes. I've made plenty.

[glossy summit]

I know I am wrong. I did a terrible thing. I was going to discuss this with hr before leaving but everyone left before me.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, you didn't do a terrible thing. You just made a mistake. Totally different.

All I'm saying is: Don't blame or get mad at the company for it. It's just a mistake.

[glossy summit]

How do I fix it?

[fringe sphinx]

As I see it, your choices are:

1. Quit
2. Explain your problem, and offer a concession... such as: Ask for 1 day a week. Or, 1 day a week on exam weeks (but you'll make it up the following week), etc.
3. Be miserable (bad option)

[glossy summit]

I think I will quit. It's placement season and I can't deal with this much work. I would rather study, that was far better. I want to study while I can.

[tribal osprey]

What is placement season?

[glossy summit]

I have never loved studying as much as I did this year.

[glossy summit]

Companies hire mostly around these times of year. Like after new year and such

[fringe sphinx]

Job #1 is doing well in school. It's a tough situation, but you're prioritizing the right things.

[tribal osprey]

I see. So it's the prime time of the year for finding a job? Agreed with Billy that you should focus on studies and your future and learn from this experience.

[tepid marsh]

school system is pretty ass though

[glossy summit]

What should I say to them? I don't wanna come as rude or arrogant in the letter.

[tepid marsh]

i would though ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tribal osprey]

You could express regret and also state how the time commitment is not possible for you. Stress the importance of your school work, how you can't give 6 hours a day to a commute, etc.

[glossy summit]

Should I call first?

And to the hr right? Not my boss?

[tribal osprey]

I'd recommend you sitting down with your boss first.

[glossy summit]

I would have to go back again. By the time I arrive at college. I will be missing dinnerm do you understand what that means? No breakfast no dinner and I would have to buy lunch and theres prob no fixed lunch time in office so I will have to work while eating prob

[tribal osprey]

In that case, call your boss.

[glossy summit]

I arrived at like 11:30 and haven't eaten anything since 12 last hrs

[glossy summit]

Okay now or tomorrow during working hrs?

[tribal osprey]

Work hours man. Unless you have a solid relationship with them.

[glossy summit]

Okay tomorrow during work hrs got it. And ai should say the same as in my letter right?

[tribal osprey]

Be honest. You need to take care of yourself and you know this is a sudden decision to drop on them.

I have to go now but I wish you the best.

[glossy summit]

Okay thank you very much for your support.

[fading moon]

Hello Everyone!
How and where can I get a job as a python developer?

[fringe sphinx]

There's many options, like looking for jobs on LinkedIn. What experience or education or other qualifications do you have?

[glossy summit]

Well I failed to reject him

But he agreed to full remote
I don't know how much he will hike though

I mean cut off the money

[pastel thunder]

what is pay range for google deep mind?
I dont see an easy answer, whats early professional's compensation?

[fading moon]

Thank you for your reply and now I am working as a freelancer on upwork.com and freelancer.com

But I didn't get a job opportunity with python. I worked laravel, konvajs, golang project on it.

By the way, I want to get a python job.

[fringe sphinx]

wdym?

[fringe sphinx]

That's good, right? Don't stress the money (unless it's costing you money): the money comes in your next job, because you'll have work experience.

[rich wave]

Im not sure if it is common question, but currently, is it possible to get non senior job position in backend development or SWE as a python dev? I have been looking for a job like for a month, and all i see is the job post which require like all other languages but not python.

[fringe sphinx]

Not sure exactly what you mean but: maybe post your resume here for review? Anonymized.

[rich wave]

well. Im just having a trouble with finding a job(im looking for one in EU) and as ive noticed, there are barely any job vacancy which offered a job where the python and its frameworks were required. which kinda confuses me cuz i dont understand if its me who is looking for a jobs at wrong places(indeed/linkedin) or is the language not rly required right now?

I did used AI to write my cv, im not sure if it is best way of writing it, but i kinda was forced cuz have some issues with writing such stuff + didnt rly know how to write so it would be user and ATS friendly.

[peak halo]

It's fine as long as every statement in the resume is true.

[rich wave]

welp, statements are true. what i did was just described what i did back at the job and asked to make everything more pretty

[fringe sphinx]

** the team
Collab bullet is repeated twice

[rich wave]

oh... thx

[pastel thunder]

microsoft offer does not mention target bonus
is it common?

for research fellowship

[pastel thunder]

not many posts online, to know from

[pastel thunder]

They say variable pay is there, but dont mention how much

[fringe sphinx]

The number of people who can answer this is effectively 0.

Compensation, bonuses, etc depend on so many factors that only the HR and hiring manager probably know the answer.

[pastel thunder]

i saw somewhere its 10-25 % and usually 10 is given but that was SDE role

[pastel thunder]

I think, they didnt mention it cuz i also heard last year nobody got variable pay, cost cutting

and its a 10% pay cut(if i get variable), not 25%, compared to cadence
it was higher than I expected.

[desert moth]

is there any people that have expiriencing developing opensource beore first employment? was it helpful during career?

[humble flame]

selected in the interview, but they are paying only ₹25,000 ($300) per month too — the exact same amount. I want to negotiate my
 salary to be a little bit higher,
 around ₹40,000 ($480), which I think is a fair amount. How should I negotiate this offer? ```

[smoky quest]

It will be helpful where having that experience will be helpful. As such:

• You have additional coding experience than not having done anything
• You have experience dealing with open source contributions, communities and flows
• You might have experience relative to the complexity of the code you have contributed
• You might have met other developers and built a professional network

[fringe sphinx]

It's as simple as saying: "I really want to work here, but the salary is below my expectations." And then be prepared to state your expectation. Note that: they may either - withdraw the offer (rare), not change their offer, raise their offer partially (ie: halfway) or offer some sort of "we'll review in 6 months", or meet your offer. Think through how you'll handle each.

[strong lava]

is there really such thing as an age limit for getting a degree in CS? or is it because of this situation specifically, where getting a degree after many YoE may look weird?

[fading fulcrum]

though im not a programmer yet i have had other jobs as electrician ect.. and there i argued that the salary should be higher becouse price of everything went up. it also has a factual arguemnt when you have experience.

[smoky quest]

it's like a distance function between your skills from that experience and the required skills for the job.

If your experience as an electrician has zero relevance to the job, it will be difficult to argue you should be paid more than an entry level just because you are old. If anything, it would be an argument to go with the cheaper entry level

[wanton birch]

On my resume, should I remove all education stuff that took place before masters? It kinda feels like it is implied!

[civic thistle]

hello who would like to make a lot of money with me i need a very good coder please.

[smoky quest]

nothing is implied about that

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[wanton birch]

So say you have listed a PhD in X and a Masters in X, would you go ahead and list Bachelors and any engineering diploma in X too?

[smoky quest]

yes

Resumes are stories, not checklists

[wanton birch]

Do you think instead of listing some publications at the end of the resume, it makes more sense to just link them a list of publications elsewhere online?

[smoky quest]

it depends on how much you think they would have an impact on the 30s it takes to do the first pass when filtering resumes

[vapid jay]

but there are some problems, e.g: speed and accuracy ..

[strong lava]

[desert moth]

i was more interested with not ability to impact (of course larger portfolio is good) but how much it impacts

[smoky quest]

depends how good you are

[desert moth]

tell me more

[smoky quest]

if you send a patch to fix a typo? no one care
if you start maintaining a subsystem for the linux kernel? based

[desert moth]

so in second case you assuming high impact on almoust all positions?

[smoky quest]

that would impact your career for sure

[desert moth]

thanks

[smoky quest]

Though not as much if your goal is irrelevant to system/kernel

[burnt glade]

Hello guys!

How are y’all?

[desert moth]

hi sweetie

stressed some. what about u?

[dry tartan]

Hi guys

Guys I am from India, I am in my 4th year of B.Tech. in Computer Science Engineering. The way on campus placements are going on is very random, I am wroking hard day and night solving codes and when I am appearing for the campus placement test the tests are going good but still not getting shortlisted for the interviews whereas people with 0 coding knowledge are getting shortlisted for interviews. Guys do any of you have some idea or can guide me for offcampus opportunities. My projects are mainly in the field of machine learning and deep learning.

[stone nymph]

U will get better advices in our regional subreddit r/developersIndia and their discord too.
I would suggest the subreddit tho

[burnt glade]

I’m good I’m so envy! I wanna this choice

[desert moth]

what choice

[fringe sphinx]

!ot This is the #career-advice , could you take this discussion to off topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[burnt glade]

Okay sorry

[tranquil hollow]

[night eagle]

Hello I'm currently a 2nd year BTech CSE student. I am interested in Devops, and I want to master it nicely and crack a good company. Is there any devops engineer who can guide me? Please DM me. I need some basic help.

[buoyant seal]

ask more specifically what you wish

[vapid jay]

Hey guys, should I learn web dev despite growing concern that it’s gonna get fully automated?

[fair wren]

Hey guys, I am an MBA student with finance major. Please guide me and recommend me some courses or yt playlists that can help me to learn ‘Python for Finance’.

[near ocean]

Whose growing concern

[lilac sundial]

alr so in the field of software engineering is there a specific job role called "software engineer" ? Y'know, like how you have full stck dev, back end dev , frontend devops and so on

Or are all these roles included under the role of sowftware engineer

[fierce venture]

yo, is there a for-hire channel or smth like that on the server?

[chrome hamlet]

You can get hired as Software Engineer, yes. Though the responsibilities may vary between jobs even though the title is Software Engineer

[lilac sundial]

Generally speaking though, does a "software Engineer" specialize in only a handful of languages like python + java + c

[harsh river]

no, if anything they don't specialize in any one language, a good SWE should know how to be flexible and pick up other languages if their work requires it.

[lilac sundial]

Ok then

[chrome hamlet]

No. Generally speaking they can pick up most things in a short fair of time if it’s not something that requires very deep domain knowledge. But even then there are usually domain experts that help engineers with that depending on the company.

[true harness]

it would be rare to have deep knowledge of many languages. usually you'll know one or two very well and be decent at a bunch

[crisp heart]

print()
print("Hello" "Vivek" "Your ability to" "Flying" "will make sure you never have to look at" "bane" "again." "Go eat","roti" "as you walk down the streets of" "India" "and use" "Flying" "for good and not evil!")

help with this

whenever I run the code I got this error What is your name?Vivek
What is your worst enemy’s name?bane
What is your superpower?Flying
Where do you liveIndia
What is your favourite foodRoti
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/runner/day4100-days/main.py", line 6, in <module>
print()
TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

[peak halo]

@crisp heart did you make a variable named print?

[crisp heart]

Yes I write print()

[peak halo]

that's not the same as making a variable

can you show the entire code?

[crisp heart]

print = input("What is your name?")
print = input("What is your worst enemy’s name?")
print = input("What is your superpower?")
print = input(" Where do you live")
print = input(" What is your favourite food")
print()
print("Hello" "Vivek" "Your ability to" "Flying" "will make sure you never have to look at" "bane" "again." "Go eat","roti" "as you walk down the streets of" "India" "and use" "Flying" "for good and not evil!")

[peak halo]

you keep making a variable named print

don't do print = ever.

[crisp heart]

example?

[peak halo]

one sec. I'm in a meeting

[crisp heart]

ok

[peak halo]

wait, this is the career discussion channel

@crisp heart try asking your question in #1035199133436354600

[whole flare]

🗿

[peak halo]

this is the last on-topic question; please help this person.

[smoky quest]

They specialize in problems. As a by product, they become more proficient in the languages and tools related to the problems and means to solve these problems

Programming languages are tools, means to an end, not an end in themselves

[lilac sundial]

Isee

[valid veldt]

I am around 13 years old, is it a good age to learn Python?

[smoky quest]

sure

[raw niche]

Hello, I'm very beginner in programming. For what is Python mainly used to do?

[fringe sphinx]

Tip: play around with Python and learn little bits at a time. It'll be confusing at first, just have fun making small things work and it'll work out.

[fringe sphinx]

Hang out in #python-discussion and ask lots of questions.

Python is used for many things. https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2024

[supple junco]

Python: if you've thought of doing it, there's probably a built in function that does it

[robust island]

I'm building my resume to apply for some summer internships. I'd like to include a link to my github to showcase some projects, but the account I made most of them in (this one lol) isn't really professional. Should I make a different one with my actual name and all that with some selected projects I've made?

[sand egret]

Yeah sure, feel free to do that

[robust island]

I might start contributing to projects from that one too ig, so I have more activity in that account. Idk, managing two internet personas feels weird lol

[smoky quest]

just put links to your projects, not your profile. It's like if I send you a link to my website and ask you to figure out if there is a job for you. No one is gonna click on it

[robust island]

Well a bunch of links to projects wouldn't really fit on a resume though, a link to a bunch of links (the profile or another site) would

[smoky quest]

either way

[umbral osprey]

Lesson i've learnt

[astral anvil]

who can help me

[white torrent]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[muted bridge]

Any tips on the behavioral interview? All I've been told is to study the STAR format

[peak halo]

remember that the people interviewing you aren't expert psychologic interrogators. they just want to figure out if you're a normal and emotionally balanced person.

just practice talking about situations where you disagreed with someone, or you didn't like what they were doing, or they told you they didn't like what you were doing, and how you handled yourself in a way that wouldn't anger or irritate your colleagues.

my first job was in food service, and I heard a few parts of an ongoing interview. and my boss asked them a behavioral question, and the interviewee said something about grabbing a broom out of someone else's hand and yelling at them. and that was pretty self-incriminating. they didn't get the job.

[muted bridge]

wth

no yeah I think I understand what you're saying, just showcase that I'm a normal person

[jade walrus]

Hey guys, I have 3 solid days to prep for a technical interview. its for an intern role and they said the code portion will be low pressure and I will have plenty of time to solve the questions.

I wanted to commit each day to a topic to really lock it down and do all the leetcode easies I can for that topic.

Day 1: Hashmaps/Sets

Day 2: ???

Day 3: ???

Does anyone have any advice on what I should focus on for the remaining two days?

I was going to go through all the questions in the Leetcode 150 section.

Couldnt find any info on intern interviews online but reached out to someone who was an intern and they said the problems were pretty basic. Maybe two questions, but was asked to solve each of them 4-5 different ways. Leads me to think that they are very simple
if you can solve them 4-5 ways in a short interview lol

[fringe sphinx]

3 days is not going to move the needle... the likelihood of guessing the right topic is zero. That said, practicing solving easy and medium questions is worthwhile: it's also important to practice -not knowing-. You will have a question you can't answer, and you can still 'pass' by handling it like an engineer rather than panicking.

[jade walrus]

i agree, im just going over all the topics i can and trying to apply patterns

[fringe sphinx]

You can also look at examples of over engineered solutions to easy questions. Look up the excessively complex solutions to fizz buzz, for instance.

[peak halo]

The point of those questions is to measure skills that you've been developing since you started learning to code. If material that you can cram in three days makes the difference between pass and fail, then they're bad questions.

[fringe sphinx]

One example of a ridiculous solution to fizz buzz, ridiculous but informative: https://habr.com/ru/articles/540136/ (use google
Translate)

[jade walrus]

Thanks for all the input guys. I am just nervous because this is my first technical interview ever, and I never really did interview style questions before this. I have a really good embedded project on my resume though which I think will help!

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not sure you appreciate my point about practicing 'not knowing'. The interview isn't 'what do you know' it's 'how do you think'.

[near ocean]

Knowing goes a long way

[fringe sphinx]

https://dev.to/dan_starner/steps-towards-problem-solving-in-a-technical-interview-41pb

[near ocean]

For interns and juniors especially I'd think showing what you know would be more important

(not that you can learn in 3 days)

[fringe sphinx]

This was really the point I was trying to make... the thing you -can- do is be ready to handle an interview question

[jade walrus]

I do feel prepared to handle any question thrown at me (even if i dont know), in the sense of breaking it down and explaining my thought process. The only part im worried about is turning my psuedocode outline into functioning code. I am worried i will freeze up a little bit. That link looks like a good resource, thank you

[fringe sphinx]

Good, explaining is important: I hate when a candidate goes silent.

[jade walrus]

My plan is to talk for several minutes, clarify, and write outlines of everything i need in comments before even beginning to write functional code

[fringe sphinx]

I'd suggest accepting that you'll make a mistake, that's unavoidable. Just listen to what the interviewer says: they'll usually try to help you

[jade walrus]

I will keep that in mind for sure. What's your role in the industry?

[fringe sphinx]

Hiring manager / data engineer / lots of things

I'm just one opinion tho, everyone has a different perspective

[smoky quest]

Practice! It's not much different than public speaking. The first few times you will freeze and feel soooooooooo conscious about it.
After a few, you won't even care. So it's common to start with companies you don't care about so you won't care as much if you fail

[devout stump]

heyyyy everyone... a new duck arrived at discord

@devout stumpthats me!!!!!!

[vapid jay]

Hey guys.
Elect data analytics.
Any suggestions on it?

[valid veldt]

Are there any tutorials for it?

[cyan oxide]

Hi I am new here

[shy trench]

hi

what do you need

[cyan oxide]

Student

[vapid breach]

Am a 16 year old kid I wanted to learn python to develop my skills , I wanted to ask how can I earn from python as a 16 year old ?? ( I am still learning , was just wondering what stuff to look into I want to buy my self a bike ;-; )

[old island]

.

[last oriole]

Is no app development gonna be the future?

[buoyant seal]

not very predictable, because hard to predict things like... will be hyperspace engines invented? will aliens come to Earth?
Very unlikely, but some super small hance is always there 😉

Some people like Nvidia say it that no app development will be right away, but mind the fact that they are the ones producing hardware for neural network stuff, and therefore AI like hype for them is just literally proffitable. A person would say anything if it means getting extra trillions of dollars

[buoyant seal]

No app development like having invented Wordpress stuff is a thing that exists for dozens of years.
No coding is technilcaly required to use it.
Nevertheless still PHP devs are needed today to maintain and extend it futher 😉

Many services provide no coding services all the time
with visual graphic designers to make smth.
Still devs are needed to have smth maintainable with high performance that meets demands of business.
All those boilerplating solutions have problems of lack of flexibility, not meeting desired requirements, or having low performance
That makes people just not using all those not coding solutions if they don't meet their requirements

[feral grove]

you need pycharm to install

[wanton birch]

😕

[lost glade]

in what industry is assembly programing knowledge needed?

is it mostly towards computer engineering, like microprocessors? or data engineers and such?

[dense mesa]

@lost glade some niche areas of cyber security, reverse engineering, anything looking at memory dumps. Not sure where else you'd find that, we're decades past assembly

[sand horizon]

has anyone done a masters in data science in europe ? i am thinking of UVAmsterdam / TUMunich or maybe LudwigMaxMunich

they seem quite ok in terms of budget considering unies in london - albeit the quality - are really expensive

[fringe sphinx]

We don't allow ads in this server, plus this channel is the career channel. Please read the #rules before posting. Your post has been deleted

[velvet rock]

At that age it's not possible to get a job but freelancing is quite hard unless you're really good at it but even then it barely pays

[pine sleet]

I would not really worry about earning from Python at that age. Focus on expanding your skills, building things, exploring what’s out there, and of course maintaining good grades in school so you can get into a good computer science program at university

[vapid breach]

Ik I am just looking to crack in the market any website through which I could start would be great I don't really care if I get any customers or not , since I am not a main source of income in my house hold and am just trying to expand my horizon , thanks for your reply

[vapid breach]

I do actually want to go to an architecture program but I also want to explore more options and expand my horizons , I do believe that your answer is a logical one and thanks for your suggestion also Ig it is kind of hard for teens to crack this type of market though I still wanna keep trying

[pine sleet]

yeah, though i would say that it would be a better use of your time to focus on learning now instead of putting your time towards finding a programming job, so its easier to crack the market once you're in university and looking to get an internship

if you just want money there are many jobs that hire teens

[jade walrus]

is anyone willing to help me out by giving me a mock interview? have my first ever technical interview for an internship coming up

[peak halo]

you're more likely to get a taker if you say what the position is and post an anonymized version of your resume (interviewers use your resume to decide what to ask you).

[jade walrus]

will do thanks!

Hi guys, I am looking for someone to give me a mock interview. I have a technical interview for a Software Engineer Intern @ Defense Contractor coming up in a few days. I have never done a technical interview before and I really would like to get some practice in before

[iron lichen]

hello guys i learn the python basics what i need now to learn

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion plz

[wicked wind]

Do y'all ever just feel like its pointless to try and make a career cuz ai is just gonna take over or climate change/ww3 ends the world and youre never gonna have a career anyways. I know its prop an unrealistic thing but i still feel like it sometimes even though i love ict

[balmy spade]

To possibly rephrase your question from a different angle: Do I ever feel like life has a crap ton of pressure crushing me into a slug-like pile? Yes. Quite frequently some months.

You have no proof of the future, so live in the moment and move toward your goals. If something changes, you'll change. Happens all the time.

[wicked wind]

Yea i think you're right. Just feels but scary to study,put effort into and get into debt for a thing ppl say will be done by ai soon. Ppl who don't know what they are talking about sure but still scary

[true harness]

AI coding assistants are already very good, but it's still very far from being able to do everything a software developer does

[wicked wind]

Yea but im thinking about in 10 years time you know

[balmy spade]

Separate out the concerns.

You can study and maybe you won't get the job you immediately wanted but you still have all the knowledge and skill you learned. You can not study, you still won't get the job, and you'll have nothing.

Debt is manageable and, sometimes, avoidable!

AI is... hype. It's mostly hype. It doesn't feel that way but that's what it is. Is technology changing? Yes. Is it changing as quickly as it was 40 years ago? Hard to tell... maybe, maybe not.

Just remember. By 2000 we were all promised flying cars, robot maids, and all that.

[wicked wind]

Thats true as well. Im just thinking about wrong things lol. Thanks
Also can i dm you?

[balmy spade]

Worry, stress, and fear are perfectly normal. The trick is to leverage their energy toward your own goals instead of letting them spin and wear you down. Easier typed than done, I assure you. But worth thinking about.

As for DM's, you can. But I don't often even look at them. I engage here, in this guild, and am otherwise rather absent.

[fringe arrow]

hey everyone, sup?

[wicked wind]

Ty for the advice. Also sent you a dm

[vapid breach]

My main focus isn't money but I am trying to dabble into it , if you could tell me where I find these jobs it would be much appreciated , but as I said earlier I am just trying to widen my scope

[pine sleet]

retail and fast food stores are usually always hiring, you can just find one close to your house and work there on weekends or after school for some extra change

lot of my friends in high school did this over the summer and weekends and saved a good bit of money

[vapid breach]

Thanks for you suggestion but I am from a country where working in these types of places as a teen isn't appreciated by the community so I can't , also was looking for a website where I could find programming jobs so I could refine my abilities

Thanks for your suggestion , I would have I tried those things if I was in america or stuff 😅

[pine sleet]

ah ok. not sure what to tell you if you're not in america then. though i'd bet you still won't be able to find any programming jobs at the moment.

if you want "real world" experience, i would recommend you contribute to an open source project

it wont be the same of course but you can learn a lot of the skills that would be useful in a real job, and is something you can talk about on your resume

[vapid breach]

Am willing to do that but where do I find them do I search up open source project and I would get it ?

[pine sleet]

it's usually best if you find a project you're actually interested in and use. random projects won't be that useful. see if any of the apps or tools you use right now are open source, and think of a problem you have with them or something that could be improved. then, open an issue and see if you can PR it to them. i'm sure the authors would appreciate it

[vapid breach]

Oh great idea thanks for the suggestion , also you mind if I ask another question? , what language is best after python ? I would appreciate it If you respond

[pine sleet]

don't focus on the language too much, it's simply a tool to reach and end goal. most professional software engineers can pick up a new language in a handful of days if they need to

find a project you want to do and figure out what would be a good language to build that project in. for instance you may want to create some sort of website, in which case you could determine that javascript is a good starting point

[vapid breach]

:0 how I am having a tough time learning python , I guess they are professionals for a reason

[pine sleet]

first languages are the hardest, don't beat yourself up over it. it gets far easier to learn new languages after the first one

you will start noticing that languages often borrow certain features or philosophies from other language, in which case you have transferrable knowledge

if not then you have a new way of approaching problems

[vapid breach]

Thanks for the encouragement but I aint a giving up kinda person so ama stick to it don't worry

[vapid breach]

Interesting , hmm thanks for your suggestion IG I will try to work on some open source project first and when I feel good enough i will try to learn another language

[pine sleet]

try out some "weird" languages too, don't just stick to the main ones. try out things like haskell, ocaml, elixir, etc which even if you wouldn't use them in a project, can teach you different ways of thinking about problems (for instance, haskell encourages writing pure functions, and writing pure functions in python can make them easier to test and all the advantages that come from a well tested codebase)

[wanton birch]

What AI will end up doing is just make everyone a lot more productive. Hopefully it will help bring a lot of ideas to reality by helping creative people code up things faster. The barrier to entry will change. Other than that, at least for the time being, I think AI will just make the existing folks be a lot more productive than before. And this is assuming you aren't using AI to do your work but more like a buddy that is there to help speed things up for you.

[wicked wind]

Yea but i kinda feel like companies are more interested in using it to cut costs aka workers rather than increasing productivity, especially when demand isnt the best

[pine sleet]

they can do that but they get what they pay for

[smoky quest]

why not doing both?

[lapis delta]

So high interest rates = no new CS jobs

[near ocean]

How did you make that connection

[smoky quest]

this is not a shortcut I would agree with

[vapid breach]

Hmm 🤔 am kinda free in the whole winter vocations so will do then

[pastel imp]

I am new to programming, and I saw that there are Python courses on Udemy. (learning from scratch) Would you recommend taking one, or are there other courses/videos that you would suggest?

[sand egret]

I remember Bro Code, this guy is a beast, he made 2 free Python courses of 12 hours each. He even made extra tutorials for some packages

[lilac sundial]

Is a chrome extension a feasable cs masters related project

[fringe sphinx]

What would it do?

[near ocean]

You should talk to your advisor about your project ideas, what are internet strangers gonna do

[lilac sundial]

I dont got no advisor

[near ocean]

You cant not have an advisor for a masters program
Who is supervising you?

[lilac sundial]

Wdym like a proffessor or like a councillor

[near ocean]

Someone overseeing your work

[true harness]

if I recall correctly, they are looking to apply for masters programs

[fringe sphinx]

Ooh, you want a project to cite when applying to a masters?

Not a masters thesis project

[lilac sundial]

Correct

This will also be my first big project up until now ive just made some basic projects

Probably will leverage them too and just for namesake put em up on google playstore

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not sure how important projects are for masters programs applications.

Seems like grades and recommendation letters are the more important part?

[true harness]

it's kind of the same as resumes: it's about what skills you can demonstrate (specifically, you need to demonstrate that you are ready for graduate level work)

[true harness]

grades are important, but generally speaking, at competitive programs every applicant will have comparable grades

[near ocean]

Nobody asked me about a project

[fast fossil]

may I? /s

[vapid jay]

looking for a job has me super depressed. i'm 35, graduated from wgu software dev program, only thing of note that i made was a javafx desktop app. i learned practically nothing about web technology, super basic html/css stuff. i had to take some time off after graduating with a baby and some other life issues that popped up. started learning python/django and react to make a portfolio. i'm working on an app idea i had but it just feels so pointless. i see people with CS/EE degrees, internships, complex apps, and I don't know how writing a CRUD app and deploying it to the cloud is gonna get a job. all i hear is doom and gloom about the death of jr engineers and AI taking over dev jobs. I was a raging alcoholic until like 2016, i thought if I quit that I can do anything, thats why a few years later I went back to school, now it just seems like I'll never get to be what I want to be. live in a rural town, not a lot of tech jobs, i dunno what to do anymore. i've been practicing dsa/leetcode problems and trying to learn every day and build something but i feel screwed. i'm open to any advice. it seems like there is no market for someone like me.

[fringe sphinx]

How long did the wgu program take?

[fringe sphinx]

And the doom and gloom is grossly exaggerated

And there's practical advice we can give, but let's start at the beginning

[vapid jay]

like 3 years. i know i should have tried to do more on my own but i worked full time and have kids. in between jobs right now but tired of savings taking a hit so i'm probably gonna end up in a factory again

i've made a ton of mistakes in my life, i know.

[fringe sphinx]

Let's just stick to what we can advise and focus on the: what you can do something about. We're not life coaches.

But I feel you.

[vapid jay]

thanks, yeah i don't mean to overshare, just been a rough day

[fringe sphinx]

Four things: Prepare a good resume, and have it reviewed. Resume writing is hard. You can post it here, anonymized, for review.

Network, as best as you can. Try to talk to people who work in the industry. This is hard, especially hard if you're in a rural location, but do your best.

Don't wait for a perfect job: relevant experience is the first goal. There are many jobs in tech besides coding, and these can be good entry points. QA, for instance, is a bit easier to break into.

As an entry level candidate, you're not expected to know everything... attitude and foundations is important. Practice is good too, keep the skills sharp

Location matters... onsite work is far easier to find than remote.

[vapid jay]

thanks, I appreciate it. not sure what I can do about location right now but i'll try to find some meetups or something

[fringe sphinx]

Just aim for the entry point job. People are landing jobs, it just takes a bit of patience and perseverance to get that first break.

[summer plover]

They have a degree, they study that kind of stuff for 3/4 years straight

If you know few languages really well and have minimal coding knowledge you shouldn't find it hard to pick up a new language

[summer plover]

AI isn't taking over. It's the quite the opposite

[near ocean]

No 😎

[fast fossil]

we're taking over AI jobs?

[fringe sphinx]

Ai is a job creator, perhaps is the point?

[safe locust]

i just need help in this that i have done internship at INTEL and i have made a project there. So bacially in my experience section i have described what i did there and the problem is this that i wanna keep that {project in project section too}. SO please help me what shall i do ( because i cannot write the description same in both of the section ).

[fringe sphinx]

Pick one. Can't put same thing twice

[safe locust]

obv i need to show that intel in my experience section bro.

but what about that projecti did. Because its the best and also its standout project according to me.

[fringe sphinx]

Then you don't have any choice. Seems clear?

If your best project was during your internship, then list it in your Xp

[safe locust]

then what to write in Intel as Exp. ??

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe share your anonymized resume for discussion?

[safe locust]

shall i share here ??

@fringe sphinx

i just added project link after that Intel
which i think is not looking good. and the main thing is this that i wanna remove my 1 of the project and want to add that project which i did at intel

anyone help please.

[harsh river]

be patient.

[fringe sphinx]

(I can't review right now but someone else may be able to)

You can, yes

[safe locust]

you can just tell me the solution for this @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

Your job bullets are missing a lot of context, very incomplete.

[safe locust]

like what type of

at least elaborate @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

Can't right now

[smoky quest]

Main thing for me is it doesn't give a concrete sense of how you have achieved them

[near ocean]

I dont understand this trend of bolding phrases in your experience, its very obvious to me that youre trying to draw attention to it
I get it youre trying to market yourself but this is way too on the nose

[safe locust]

what do you mean ??

[smoky quest]

am paraphrasing but a lot of your bullets can be summed up to "I improved something by X% with some advanced techniques", but never give a sense of what these advanced techniques are.

[safe locust]

any sol. for this ? @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

I would remove some of your achievements

[safe locust]

whats the relation of achievement in project and intel topic ??

[smoky quest]

oh I thought you were trying to save some space

[safe locust]

not actually read my message properly.

[smoky quest]

ah my bad. I won't make that mistake again

[frank zephyr]

hey 22, is it too late to switch majors to CS at this age? If anyone here has any experience with this?

[smoky quest]

nope it's not too late. I know people who did it later and are doing great

[frank zephyr]

ok ty

[peak halo]

That's the age I was when I switched to CS, and it worked out great for me

[jade walrus]

hey has anyone interviewed w/ a defense contractor?

[fringe sphinx]

Just ask your question

[jade walrus]

just wondering what the interview was like for junior defense contractor positions

[fringe sphinx]

Many years ago, when I was entry-ish level, I interviewed with a lot of defense companies. I don't recall the interviews being different from my other interviews. I doubt you'll see a significant difference either.

[tawdry quiver]

Hey everyone Im a senior in highschool right now and I intend to major in cybersecurity. I've been trying to learn how to program in my spare time specifically python. I was wondering if anyone can help me as I've been having some issues staying consistent and finding the right course.

[fringe sphinx]

Help with what?

[tawdry quiver]

I've been having issues with staying consistent and also finding a course to follow to actually learn to program

[fringe sphinx]

If you want course suggestions, ask in #python-discussion . Lots of people are learning htere.

[errant thicket]

are there any freelancers??? in here that make a living ??? because i really wanna talk i have been trying to figure out freelance but i can’t and i have been struggling to make ends meet

[pine sleet]

this is off topic for this channel, but you should make an open issue on their github

[gilded ravine]

alright, I apologize, I didn't really know how that works. This is the first time i've actually "reported" something; I will surely do that thanks 🙂

just figured someone from their would be here (Not specifically this chat)

[gray zodiac]

algorithms engineer for ai, software engineer,data sientists,which is the easiet one to land a job today?

there are some many jobs and corresponding road map,but i dont konw wich to choose

[smoky quest]

the one where it's easier for you to stand out

[hexed raptor]

What's your main stack?

[hexed raptor]

You can choose something you are very confident.

[lost fern]

Hard to tell, I know people who switched from data science to data engineering, but I also know someone who moved in the opposite direction. It's whatever you can get, and most jobs involve a variety of things, unless you are in a big company with very well defined roles.

[faint depot]

Whats the difference between data science and data engineering?

[dapper bane]

I am applying to a lot of jobs even get selected in a few but I cant increase my pay significantly it is an average pay of 35,000 rupees or 416$ a month

I need to make it a 1,000$ a month

I am learning something called rust

[buoyant seal]

You can earn a lot even with... scripting languages (and being productive with them)

It is a question of learning Core Software engineering subjects
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
Unit testing is one of most important ones.

Besides that majority of stuff to go past junior level is teached over there in code complete
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction

Knowledge remain dead without practice
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
Good chosen per projects can be both: excellent practice and resume augmentation

Dev without knowledge of core software engineering practices will write similarly shitty code in any language

[kind marsh]

!cban 1297859823257260047 nah

[buoyant seal]

i will add to this though, that besides core software engineering practice
to earn properly with a specific language.. u need to get a hang of its best practice and ecosystem prefeferably.
https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Code-Python-Refactor-legacy/dp/1788835832
Like this awesome book for Python teaches a lot of tricks to understand it better, majorly concentrated on all focuses with its syntax sugar
But also giving useful stuff how in a modern way to configure dev env with docker for it

Or this one https://www.amazon.com/Expert-Python-Programming-practices-programming/dp/1801071101
containing multiple topics to explore python in more depth, with giving overview regarding all different ways to use parallelism in it (multithreading, multiprocessing, async stuff)

same will be true for any other language u learn. u need to get hang of it in depth to earn properly with it usually.
but the language specific stuff is only beginning and has hard level of reusability beyond the current language.
Core Software engineering subjects are more important and completely almost reusable between any used language/technology

Depending on job role, u can be also needing to learn other stuff in depth... like how to work with relational databases if backend dev.
that will make the fluff of technologies needed being known better for specific job role position

Summarizing... it will make needing to learn three aspects to get better:

• Programming language best practices and how to use it in depth.
• Core software engineering practices
• Fluff of technologies around the job role (technically programming language is part of it)

[errant thicket]

are there any freelancers??? in here that make a living ??? because i really wanna talk i have been trying to figure out freelance but i can’t and i have been struggling to make ends meet

[dapper bane]

is there any place I can talk about webiste ideas in a little provate setting with the right people

[fringe sphinx]

!topic perhaps?

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[dapper bane]

whats all this man ?

[peak halo]

BillyBobby is saying that you can use the off-topic channels for what you wanted to talk about.

[gaunt stump]

I got a mail from one company, Maxwel It solutions that your CV has been shortlisted for python developer and have to give round 2. But I feel that company is fake. What to do now?

[lilac sundial]

Do the competitions on kaggle just involve people trying to get the highest prediction accuracy for a given collection of data

If so are very novice and basic competitions equal to basic cookie cutter ML projects that u see on a resume

[fringe sphinx]

Why do you think fake?

[fringe sphinx]

A project is just a demonstration that you did something. If you do a Kaggle challenge, you can post your work and results as a project.

[errant thicket]

hey billy do you know any freelancers in here?

[lilac sundial]

Oh wow dk that, but im not trying to get really deep into ML amd data analytics, plus those comps are tight as flip

[fringe sphinx]

Nope

[fringe sphinx]

Nobody expects you to win a competition. Just show that you did something, learned from it, and evaluated your results.

[lilac sundial]

Is it worth giving a try for exp or merit as a beginner

[fringe sphinx]

If it interests you, sure

[true harness]

have you identified where/what you want to do after getting a master's ? that would give you something to focus on in your application

[muted bridge]

So I just got out of a behavioral interview, and the first question certainly went well, but the second question was something like “Tell me about a time you handled a conflict.”

I proceeded to talk about the time I was working with teammates on a hackathon. Long story short, I accidentally talked about how my team solved the issue instead of me, and the interviewer certainly pointed that out. She did give me a chance to redeem myself, but I’m still thinking about it. Am I cooked, or is there still a chance? I thought the rest of the interview went pretty well

[gaunt stump]

I check that, the website of the company was made just days ago, the domain was just 6 days old.

[lilac sundial]

Alr man

[smoky quest]

Behavioral interviews are not about finding mistakes you did (though if you rob a bank or killed some people...), but how you reacted to that and what you learned from it.
So if your follow up answer was "and I will do it again", definitely not based. But if you have demonstrated you have learned and grown from it, then it will be fine

[rotund crest]

I've been stuck in this loop for months where these AI training jobs pays me significantly more money than I would otherwise make if I advanced my career in the current economy without moving to the US.

It also sucks up so much time that I barely have time to keep my technical skills relevant. I'm not sure if I should just keep doing this a while longer or if I really need to get out of this situation even if I have to take a big pay cut for it.

[fringe sphinx]

That's a tough situation. I've seen people who were effectively unhirable with 20 years experience who've done the right thing for their company... but the wrong thing for their career.

[rotund crest]

I already feel like I'm kind of already there. My mom died a while ago and then my family sued me over her estate. The whole process kind of put all my progress on hold and I went from having a high interview rate to nearly zero.

[fringe sphinx]

That said, "moving to the US" is not necessarily as easy as it sounds. Definitely seek advice here from people who've done it from your country.

[rotund crest]

To be clear, I am not planning on moving to the US, but it's what makes me feel trapped. This AI monkey work pays nearly double what I made as a software engineer before she passed.

[fringe sphinx]

I'm curious, what kind of work is it?

[rotund crest]

It's basically a combination of solving programming and math questions while following documentation to ensure it is accurately labeled so that LLMs and such that can use it for training. There are other jobs that involve penalizing their reward functions by manually reviewing them.

But this makes it sound much more glamorous than it really is. It is extremely mind-numbing. They recently asked me if I wanted to install a camera in my house to record human behavior for additional pay, which I refused.

[ruby holly]

I mean, it depends a lot on the individual HR that was reviewing you

[smoky quest]

I have never seen HR doing anything beyond intake

[ruby holly]

HR is there to protect the company from what you can do to it. As well as resolve workplace conflicts and allow for the gears of the corporate machine to run smoothly

[smoky quest]

How does that relate to interviewing candidates?

[ruby holly]

If you are incompetent or have a hidden problem that the tech bros wouldn't see, not letting you work at the company is still protecting the company

[smoky quest]

It's not HR's job to hire people

[ruby holly]

In my case, the HRs were the first people you would talk to in your interviews

[smoky quest]

HR or recruiters?

[ruby holly]

Guess it's a local thing here then

[smoky quest]

yeah, that would not be common in the USA

[ruby holly]

HRs double as recruiters here

[fringe sphinx]

HR is more of a 'not hire' filter than a 'hire' filter, ime. Maybe differences for intern level stuff, but generally HR really has little say.

In small companies, sometimes the HR manager doubles as recruiter, for logistical reasons

In large companies in US, recruiters may be technically part of HR but really a diff department

[late rover]

Yeah I've definitely seen it in the US. In Utah in fact. State of industry. So it happens🤷🏼‍♂️

[leaden crown]

is there a phyton course i can take for fast learning? like good value

[onyx locust]

What's Python's value in the backend job market?
I'm Ronny, a self-taught programmer with 6 years of experience, currently in my 2nd year of a degree. I've built scalable backend applications using Python frameworks like Django, Flask, and FastAPI, with PostgreSQL, Redis, and RabbitMQ integrations. Despite positive feedback on my projects, I've faced criticism regarding my choice of Python for backend development.

Recently, I began exploring Spring Boot, driven by industry trends and job opportunities. While transitioning from Python to Java wasn't difficult, it raised concerns about my future employability. Job listings heavily favor Java for junior positions, while Python is often reserved for senior roles, which makes me wonder if my Python expertise holds enough value in the current job market.

Is sticking with Python for backend development viable, or should I focus on languages like Java, C#, or Go, which are perceived as industry standards? I'd love to hear how others transitioned from Python to more "battle-tested" languages. btw im Australia based with no professional experience. And my viewpoints are based on what i've observed from job listings from 2022 to now. And at no point do i mean python isnt battle tested, what i've observed from job listings and my countries' major companies and seeing thier tech stacks along with positions they offer, none offered python roles and only seek and indeed displayed really experienced roles such as 5years +

[deft herald]

I've built scalable backend applications using Python frameworks like Django, Flask, and FastAPI, with PostgreSQL, Redis, and RabbitMQ integrations.
This is definitely some good experience, probably enough to qualify for a good number of jobs. Are they specifically in a large scale web dev industry? I dunno.

But as an example, my team produces a pretty complex web application built on Django back end. It's however internal only to the company; user base is 3 figures

[onyx locust]

you'd think that, but having no experience is a death sentence for your employability or appeal for the australian HM

[deft herald]

It doesn't sound like you have no experience

[onyx locust]

well no, humbly I've been very driven to learn, expand and improve my skillsets for 4 years and its earnt me alot of practical knowledge in my field, which is why it contributes to some of my frustration towards learning new stacks only for the benefit of displaying my proficiency as a developer. My github is linked if you want to assess my words

[deft herald]

If you're on your 2nd year of a degree, i would focus on getting internships until you graduate

[onyx locust]

okay but say i lie which alot of people do lie about having a teriary education, i've applied to many jobs and only internships require educational transcripts, i've heard alot that people with no experience get hired, people with no degrees get hired, people with average python projects get hired. why are the constraints so much more mild in my circumstances? if i was to lie would my chances improve? because that is a reality (no im not considering lying)

[buoyant seal]

Python is pretty usable for backend, and there will be plenty code to maintain for that.
You should check your local hiring web sites to have more clear situation though, because what it is true for one country can be different for another one.

I think you are doing absolutely right in learning java, as it u will be able to learn a bit more being than just using dynamic typing stuff. I am viewing skeptically all the dynamic typed scripting languages (Python, PHP, Ruby, Javascript and etc) as they have severe problem with scaling in code size (they have some of their own advantages too though)
With java u could practice your skills with developing some interesting stuff like Minecraft or Starsector mods 😋 heavy modded communities are present for it.
And Golang in my opinion is great too. Except it has a problem of small amount of job vacancies relatively to other popular backend languages.

C# in same my opinion is bad choice to learn, because it is not linux friendly and u will get stuck with ancient mammoths from 2000-2010 years that used Windows Servers and Windows in general for web development (modern web dev is dominated by 98%+ by Linux servers)
i used C# personally, i know... it is very awesome and comfortable to use, but the problems are standing nevertheless. You can be caught developing with Visual Studio from Windows only.

Tbh same problem is somewhat present with Java, because it is such a great long term maintained language... a lot of stuff was written, and a lot is mantained, but some people are lazy/not able afford to upgrade it and still on some Java 8 and work with some stuff like Jenkins or some ancient deployment method like Wildfly from pre-docker times.
Same i encountered in job vanacies for python too though, some people are still using Python2...
So... in any language possible to encounter quite badly maintained legacy 😅 Except probably golang has naturally less legacy due to its freshness.

[fringe sphinx]

I think you'd be surprised what's standard nowadays: https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2024

But; technical compentency is more than just what languages you know. There are many dimensions in which you can grow.

[onyx locust]

the thing is. java is great, python is great. but in reality, if you're in the job market, python positions are 80%+ senior positions or data science positions. Python is great and that is established and it will always be used when high throughput enterprise backends arent required. My concerns are how skills and experiences can be further appealed during applications. Java is a really strong backend language, python is a really nice backend language with really fast development speed, thats all understood. its just that i cant get hired as easily if im aiming for a python role, than i would for java roles. The python job market is extremely saturated in terms of junior/entry-level positions, therefore the skill-throughput is very extended to counteract that saturation, i would love to land a python position, My skills are supercharged when working with python.

[true harness]

but this isn't relevant for local job searches, right? they can't look for jobs across the entire area that this samples from to enjoy the popularity of python

[buoyant seal]

Go for Java 😏 (Or for python if u like it more)

But remember... regardless of a language u chose, u can be writing absolute crap if u did not learn core software engieneering subjects
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
Get Good with Unit testing throughly, learn to write tests with integration to database and launch them from CI, and u will flare well eventually.

Person that learnt unit testing is able reliably progress to good code quality, through iterational improvements.
Person that learnt unit testing is able to change his code masively for any improvements he needs to risk.
Person that learnt unit testing is able to receive rapid feedback in minutes (and even seconds) if the code is correct, instead of waiting hours or days
It keeps the sanity in maintaining code easier by multiple magnitudes.

[fringe sphinx]

For sure, but their statements didn't seem evidence based but 'people say' based.

My point is the same as yours. Go explore the job market and don't make assumptions

[onyx locust]

well i cant provide transcripts of the countless conversations i've had with people on this server, and so many more platforms and on calls and interviews. but I've heard alot to ignore it.

[fringe sphinx]

There's a bit of an echo chamber in any community, this one included. I assume that there's sufficient jobs in the major languages in major markets where it matters little which lang you choose... that trying to optimize isn't really worth it.

That's just an assumption, not a recommendation.

The ieee article just gives a different perspective.... i was surprised at SQLs place in that list, and I'm a data guy

[onyx locust]

yeah 100% I've matured enough to realise a good software engineer shouldnt be constrainted towards a single language instead, we should be able to understand the requirement and pick the right tool for the job, but the job pool is just very biased towards C# and Java as the entry level languages in Aus but remote jobs consist of somewhat the same as international coprorations offer somewhat the same logic, higher experience roles for python, javascript used in vanilla (gross) with html and css frontend to maintain ancient pages

[buoyant seal]

@onyx locust at the end of a day... pick the one you like more. But be sure you did not get discouraged by initial harder learning curve or initial easier learning curve. Find language you able to appreciate and like to use in every day life after you got hang of it 😉
Highly likely you are going to work with it for many years after all.
Make your everyday work life happier.

[onyx locust]

again homie, languages/frameworks are not difficult to pick up. every language is the same and logic can be extrapolated across almost every language and webframeworks all consist of the same tooling

[fringe sphinx]

FWIW, I'm a data engineer and recommend data skills (including SQL) for most engineers.... it's a skill that comes up constantly even in non data roles.

[buoyant seal]

allow me to disagree
it takes bloody a lot of time to get comfortable with specific language best practices and ecosystem, at the level to be writing with this language any necessary hackery to invent your own stuff in a best way.
It takes a lot of bloody time to practice it, investing your own time into pet projects to explore it throughly.

Some languages are even having nearly infinity learning curves and can take your whole learning capacity (like C++)
I need level of wielding language like it it is my second skin and ability to nail any problem with it. All or nothing (instead of regular student level that just scratches it)
My desire to be Efficient. Using smallest possible time to develop the most easy to maintain solution. Because human life time is too short for learn everything in technologies and etc. Because human life time is too short in terms of meaningful in quality projects.

[hallow sequoia]

im a bit confused not that ive been working as a programmer .....i lied on my resume that i graduated college with a masters in computer science/[rpgramming and they gave me a job. Hers the question? DO jobs even verify resumes these days especially with all the laws and ndas (i lied about the nda when they asked me questions about my previous jobs, so far so good)

I only did this because i was learning python for about 4 months and it was impossible to get a job with my resume...but then i lied big time and now been working for about 2 months. Since when did resumes didn matter?

[balmy spade]

Was this in the states?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm 50/50 on troll/not troll. (especially after #python-discussion message)

[hallow sequoia]

if immigrants are doing horrible things and not going to jail in america, really makes you think if its possible for an american citizen to go to jail for a fake resume? and i work at LG btw

[karmic shore]

what is lg

[hallow sequoia]

i got accepted to apple as well but the pay was aboslultey horrible.

[fringe sphinx]

This isn't the server for whatever this is.

[balmy spade]

Ah, it is a troll.

[hallow sequoia]

its python, ive been learning python here and many people to make a portfolio and work on my skills for about a year but i think thats bull

just lie on your resume and learn on the job, youll get any programming jobs and get experince that way, if they ask for details about your last job, i just said i signed an NDA and they just say ok