career-advice

[smoky quest]

then don't apply

[cobalt moat]

i want to apply but i want to know what race to put myself

[smoky quest]

that's a question for your parents

[cobalt moat]

no i need to know which race is most optimal

[smoky quest]

!rule 5

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[cobalt moat]

like idk if it filters out all people of a certain race

otherwise why would they even ask

[smoky quest]

you can choose to not answer

[smoky quest]

it's explained clearly in the screenshot

[white relic]

if it did, that would be illegal, and would you want to work there anyway?

[cobalt moat]

i just dont understand the point of asking. the information must be used somewhere

[smoky quest]

alternatively, you should reach out to them to ask that directly

[cobalt moat]

its a standard question, it should have a standard answer

[smoky quest]

It does have a standard answer in the screenshot. Pretty basic

[cobalt moat]

i dont understand the answer in the screen shot

[smoky quest]

which part is not clear to you?

[peak halo]

what about it do you not understand?
it's used to measure that company's compliance with certain regulations.

[cobalt moat]

when it says it doesnt take race into consideration, then asks for race

[smoky quest]

it does not take race into consideration when it comes to the decision to hire you. It doesn't mean they ignore that information for aggregation and statistical considerations

[peak halo]

they have to report the responses they receive to that question to the US government. the hiring managers are not allowed to consider it.

[smoky quest]

It sucks but at least they aren't wasting your time!

[lost minnow]

Nah it’s all good I’m a support engineer at the moment for an AI startup

[fringe sphinx]

Generally, HR departments want to increase diversity in applicants: equal opportunity not equal outcome...

So, this is one way for HR to know how diverse their applicant pool is.

[cobalt moat]

so its purely for statistics

[fringe sphinx]

I believe so, unless they're outright lying (which I don't think they are)

[smoky quest]

that's what the last sentence of the second paragraph means

[cobalt moat]

what about the questions about protected veterans and disability

[lost minnow]

Read this lol

[smoky quest]

anything in that paragraph would indicate anything different for these cases?

[odd lion]

Literally says it's voluntary

[peak halo]

Let's let this topic go unless someone has something to add that hadn't already been said.

[zinc token]

What are some routes that i can choose to start earning some money or maybe later a full time

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[floral meteor]

In what field

[floral meteor]

Lying on your resume won't get you very far

I always click n/a on those questions cause voluntary

[lucid cliff]

Morning people hope this is the right place to post but i am 28 and have been learning HTML and CSS and thought id like to learn Python. I have been watching Youtube videos and also doing Codecademy Python 3 , they also have intermediate and advanced which I plan to do after. One step at a time but was wondering what the best route/or advice someone can give as I dont have any degree in computer science and am self teaching through these resources. I know that I should try and build a good portfolio but want words of wisdom as I sometimes sit here and get quiet stressed as I hope this isnt a waste of my time. I really enjoy learning this; I say this because I have had quite a few setbacks in life - like we all do - and would like to make sure i am doing this the right way

[smoky quest]

• Leverage your past experience
• It's all about you compare with the competition

[lucid cliff]

My past experience has been filled with mainly working customer service based roles for the last 10 years. I didnt complete my uni due to personal issues and have been plagued by that but not trying to hold on to it but i didnt have the most glamarous roles. But I come from a competitive sporting background as played sports nationally for 6 years.

[buoyant seal]

You could start with smth like Automating the boring stuff level of books https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
They have advantage of having exercises after each chapter, u are in dire need of practice to build up your... programming thinking.
I would personally have chosen Head First book though https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/head-first-python/9781492051282/
If u are feeling like u are past this level...

u could go to directly going into learning some User Interface framework. CLI (like argparse or click library), web one (like Flask or Django), or desktop and etc
And start with making a useful tool for youself or for some gaming (or non gaming) community you are in.
That will be way more challenging and full encompasing experience than just solving leetcoding stuff
I wrote some guide about it here https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
The thing is u need practice to get better. And leetcoding is not really a correct practice, it is only fragmentary one small side of view of it, u need a full one, a real burger

Otherwise also consider reading Code Complete eventually
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
It is very comprehensive in theory to help you being better, and how to approach coding in the first place

[lucid cliff]

Amazing, am I able to drop you a DM if thats ok as dont want to clutter this? if not I understand 🙂

[buoyant seal]

i would prefer u ask in public, don't be ashamed to ask anything here. this community was build to exchange and share knowledge in public, with making sure everyone would benefit from the sharing, or anyone could add extra valuable input.
1 vs 1 is very time not efficient

[lucid cliff]

Well wanted to say thanks for this. Would you say me studying Codecademy is a good idea too? As I have already started and it is extremely informative and also will have projects on there too. With the "automatetheboringstuff" you said it has exercises each chapters; would these be exercises I can add on my portfolio somewhere ? If so would it be something I do and add to github?

Lot of info for me to take in haha

Im not sure if I start with automate the boring stuff or the other one? also wanted to know the use of learning User Interface Framework... Im quite a newb so bare with me if asking dumb questions. The reason why I came to this community and started learning Python is that I was planning to learn full stack dev (html, css and JS) but I came across an apprenticeship that was offered in the UK for a company that would pay and train you but they had an entrance exam which comprised of learning some Python (they provide learning resources) - to which you would have to complete an exam after 10 days. I managed to do this and completed the exam and not sure if I will pass but they have many opportunities come out quite often so thought to myself that I should continue to refine/learn Python as when future opps come up ill reapply and come back with more knowledge and skills

The ultimate goal was for me to complete full stack dev but I am liking Python at the moment too, even though I am quite a newb.

[smoky quest]

are you asking about #career-advice or just learning about python?

[buoyant seal]

. Would you say me studying Codecademy is a good idea too?
haven't learn from Codeacademy, and sceptical to learning ever. not my type of format of learning. i am very a book and tutorial guide type of person, so all my recommendations are made accordingly. Video learning is like... not a thing to me due to my personal characteristics.
I am very... also... hesitant to use platforms that offer leetcoding way of learning, as i am afraid of them being smth close to "Tutorial hell". They never worked for me. At best i appreciated only things like "Go Tour"
The point is... u need to find what works best for you. What works for me is very personal for me choices tailored to my set of skills and thinking.

With the "automatetheboringstuff" you said it has exercises each chapters; would these be exercises I can add on my portfolio somewhere ?
It is very primitive stuff with super narrow point of view and amount of effort. it exists only to build your programming vision and thinking.
For portfolio people show pet projects grade stuff like i described here https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
or in case of data scientists and other type of devs, also research papers and some kind of blog/portfolio web site
Things people show for portfolio should be build with Users in mind, it should be at least resembling real world application. Programming exercises in books aren't them

[lucid cliff]

And I do pick things up quickly, its a shame I didnt learn to code years ago. I was always somewhat a problem solver; when i was 11 i learnt to do the rubiks cube in 2 days and was hooked and obsessed with the algorithm patterns to solve it. Was a shame this interest wasnt harnessed into something like this

[lucid cliff]

Its pretty much both interlinked, apologies if not making full sense in what im asking/saying

[lucid cliff]

I understnad. Thank you for the advice. I will have a reread and add these points to my list

I always had the thought that a degree was required as I do see a lot of roles requiring that; but I am also aware skills do pay the bills so having the right projects and all can suffice? It can be overwhelming doing this alone and trying to keep my head up knowing one day my efforts will be rewarded

[buoyant seal]

also wanted to know the use of learning User Interface Framework... I
u should start with learning it through this practical tutorial 😉 exists both in text and video form
https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world
Once u go through it completely, u should be able to imagine what u can make with it.
U need to be in some communities, having some hobbies, to realize where best u wish to apply?

Programming tools are very limitless in their applications, as they are made to automate everything.
Web site made in Flask/Django depending on added fluff of technologies can be anything u could think within restraints of their possibilities.
It could be Live chat, it could be Dating service, it could be foundation to make your own Instagram/Facebook, it could be online Shop, it could be gaming community web site representing it, it could be your own Blog web site and your portfolio, it could be offering to use VPN service that is providing somewhere under the hood, it could be gathering donations for charity, it could be presenting some novel tool and having interactive tutorials for learning how to use, it could be web online game, it could be anything... that is possible, that u just imagined how to put into the box of technology limitations. And multiple technologies allow to break beyond of standard limitations and go further, it is just a question of what kind of price u wish to pay (everything has some kind of disadvantages and advnatages)

[lucid cliff]

Thanks for this gem!

I realise I might be in the wrong channel to message and discuss about the things you have linked me

[buoyant seal]

Degree is really best way to go, 4 years (or even 6) of going through obligatory learning, learning all the fundamental stuff, and applying it at practice to solve different higher math problems really moves you forward.
It builds your soft skills to learn, and programming vision to even comprehend it and apply at practice
It is very hard competing with people that just 4 years straight applied themselves into this direction you know.

People are rarely self disciplined enough to learn stuff without having their ass kicked. And also finding direction for learning on their own in comparison to already built structured university program.
people can be showing just an effort for 4+ (out of 5) score to get through university and become devs after graduation.

For people without higher education it is way more complicated, and need to have advantages, like past experience with some domain, connections to right people, amount of luck, amount of dedication to keep going and stuff like that.
And even in those contraints quite possible that it will be hard to lang perspective for career jobs, and may be a point to look at lower grade ones within the sphere and etc

Some people are known to have dedication to do it through self studies and having sufficient luck to make it without degree... but u know... they are more exceptions.
Only 25% (at best 50%) of university graduations work by their speciality
imagine how much lower percentage of people survived to success without 4 years of dedicated studies? Competion at entry level dev jobs is ridiculous at my country at least and can reach the level of 1000 people to 1 position
Everything is possible with necessary dedication and technical thinking/skills if it is already strong with you, and i u just have enough time to make it through, it is just far less likely

[lucid cliff]

Totally agree, just my situation wont allow me to go back to uni as I am 28 and won't be offered the funding. Only option is the apprenticeship route which is why If I can pass the Python exams and show that I am capable I can be offered something. Thats why I have took a tangent in my learning to dedicate more time to Python as initially I was only learning HTML, CSS and JS. But for the apprenticeship (they train you, whilst you study)- I had to learn some Python and will continue to learn more Python until I pass their exams haha

[smoky quest]

I mean, these can lead to different objectives and as such, different means to reach them

[fringe sphinx]

There are many roles in tech beyond SWEs, and those roles can be stepping stones to your end goal. QA, ops, tech support, etc are all ways of getting into the industry and gaining relevant experience. It's not just about 'knowing Python': a broad knowledge base is important.

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps: look for customer facing tech roles. Sales engineering (techies who talk to customers), IT, project management, etc. just trying to give you other ideas.

[lucid temple]

hi

[last moat]

Data analysis/visualization or data engineering?

which of above has more remote job opportunities. data engineering looks tougher but learning curve is not an issue. i want job which is not difficult to land and less painful to do from above two options

[fringe sphinx]

Remote jobs are difficult to land, in any specialty. AFAIK, there isn't a single "easy" path to a remote job. Best bet is to generalize: there's a lot of crossover between data analysis and data engineering.

[dapper bane]

How does this game look for a project for a jib ? https://saintelgrandosmokio.itch.io/puzzlegame

imma put it on playstore

[sharp lark]

Hello. if any remote hiring websites, I used linkedin only.

[last moat]

i am from third world country there are not many tech companies who need data engineers or data analysts. they are just software companies who get web dev projects from foreign countries.

if i learn data eng or data analysis how likely it is to get job in foriegn country? also tell me pros and cons of both data eng (especially big data) and data analysis. which has more job opportunities and safe for future

is it okay if i spend months and master both. can i use both in my Resume

[fringe sphinx]

I have no xp with foreign country stuff (I'm in US / work in US), but: It's really impossible for anyone to tell you "how likely it is to get a job...". My best advice is to network: talk to people with first-hand experience in your country.... put a lot of energy into finding them, whether its through family, friends, friends of family, people who live in your town, linkedin, tech meetups, etc.

[last moat]

okay, can i master both skills and put it on my resume. apply for both analyst and engineering jobs? or i have to create seprate resumes for each skills

[fringe sphinx]

It's good to tailor your resume, especially if the jobs are very different.

[dapper bane]

Can someone holp me ?

[harsh river]

it looks nicely made, good job!

[hallow olive]

is it possible to run models like llama directly on mobile devices(in app) instead of apis

[peak halo]

No. The GPUs that are required to run those models are larger than mobile devices.

and consumer-grade GPUs (like those used for gaming) often don't have enough memory.

[old hornet]

How much time did you take making it? And did you built it using only python? And where?

[dapper bane]

I used godot and I make this from friday

[old hornet]

Only using python?

[dapper bane]

no something called gscript very similar to python almost python like

[peak halo]

btw this is the career discussion channel; I thought we were in #data-science-and-ml

[dapper bane]

I am thinking of putting it on playstore

[old hornet]

Oh i see

[hallow olive]

okay

[old hornet]

Are you in high school?

[dapper bane]

nah I work a full stack mobile job

[sullen crystal]

Hi guys is python a good option for back-end dev I thought about learning rust or go but python seems to have more job Market ,😶

[deft herald]

Probably. Honestly though a lot of back end skill carries over regardless of the implementation language

[fringe sphinx]

These types of questions are very context dependent: what do you know? How many YoE do you have? etc?

[calm ibex]

Wassup

[strong shore]

just curious what is the best free coding boot camp for python?

[peak halo]

There are no free coding boot camps that will improve your employment prospects.

[pastel thunder]

Is it worth taking a pay cut to join Microsoft as research fellowship (1 year) with a potential to join full time as research SDE?
Currently in Cadence Design Systems full time.
I am inclining towards doing an MSCS.

[fringe sphinx]

"Worth it" requires knowing your options: what's the opportunity cost?

[pastel thunder]

like 27% pay cut with microsoft
but more chance of getting top universities.

Its all relative, cadence is not just another company, It has many benifits + its also well known

but microsoft is microsoft

I would be really grateful if they can negotiate, but from what i have heard they dont for "fellowship" positions

[near ocean]

27% is a lot

[pastel thunder]

And I will only do mscs if i get top4 univ

[pastel thunder]

unfortunately yes
and both are much above average, so that 27% is worth a lot

What TODO 😬

[near ocean]

Pretty clear to me, not take the paycut

[white relic]

Couple of thoughts.

1. I've worked, in the US, with people both from Microsoft and Cadence. Based purely on subjective impressions, I would rather work for Microsoft when business is good, but I'd rather work for Cadence when business is poor. I have no idea how that translates to India. 🤷‍♂️
2. You currently have full time permanent employment. Taking a temporary situation for a chance at a bigger company, where you have a chance of getting into a better university (for a presumed chance of better career afterwards?), is a substantial risk.
3. 27% is a big number. That will likely affect your earning potential for years to come.
4. Betting everything on getting in to a "top" university is a risky strategy. I have said before that I don't think top ranking matters as much as you do, but that is in the US. If you're considering going for an MS in India maybe it does make a big difference. Enough difference to risk the good job you already have? 🤔
   On balance I don't sense that Microsoft is offering you a sweet deal here, it seems almost all downside objectively speaking.

[pastel thunder]

I want to go for HFTs, the path of least resistant seems to be top universities.

1. Makes sense, in India too.
2. Agreed but I dont see how HFT would be possible without MSCS at top univ
3. Yes, If i drop mscs
4. I have noticed (many times), HFT prefer top univ only.

the stats say it, the composition of work force also says it.

I agree people from other univ get it, but in My case, I already have a problem of being a Mechanical grad
being in non - top univ would put me further down

[white relic]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying it's not quantifiable and it's not something I have personal experience with. Ultimately you have to make a judgment call whether it is important enough to take the risk.

[vapid jay]

how would i work with python as a freelancer??

[pine sleet]

you can offer services on sites like upwork or fiverr but it's not really worth it

[tacit plank]

I don't mean to be pedantic but what kind of freelance work

Python is a tool, it allows you to do things
what kinds of things do you like to do?

[vapid jay]

then how people really work with python

[pine sleet]

they get jobs

[tacit plank]

you can build the backend of a website in Python, or you can do data analysis using various Python libraries

[vapid jay]

i mean isnt there a way to work by urself

[pine sleet]

most people dont do that

[tacit plank]

in software engineering I am afraid it is quite tough

[pine sleet]

*professionally - you can of course make your own side projects for fun or for learning, but I'm assuming that doesn't count here

[vapid jay]

then whats the best languaue to leanr if i wanna work by myself

[pine sleet]

none, it is difficult to work by yourself with any language

[tacit plank]

realistically JavaScript could be an option

[vapid jay]

ik java script

[tacit plank]

also very true

[pine sleet]

freelancing as an independent developer doesnt pay that much and is hard to find clients, so most people just get a normal job which pays a lot more, is more consistent, and easier to get

[vapid jay]

but when it comes to real life i feel idk anything about it

[tacit plank]

yeah that is very true

[pine sleet]

what is your educational background? previous work experience? country?

[tacit plank]

then you should do side projects and practice like crazy to actually be able to program in a certain language
being stuck in tutorial hell and "knowing" the language without really knowing it is quite bad

[vapid jay]

just online youtube courses

i really need someone to tell me what to do

[pine sleet]

mm. yeah it's going to be almost impossible to get any work freelancing then

[tacit plank]

no education whatsoever? no degrees? no work experience at all?

[vapid jay]

why?

[pine sleet]

a cs degree is the path of least resistance with the most oppurtunities and compensation

[pine sleet]

there are literally tens of thousands of other people trying to make it doing the same thing you are

[tacit plank]

because it's very difficult to convince a client that you'll be able to do the work without leverage

[vapid jay]

then what should i do?

[pine sleet]

get a degree

its the easiest way to land a high paying software job

[vapid jay]

i dont want a high paying

i just wanna trian and get into real life programming life

[tacit plank]

but I should note however that getting a degree is not enough, you need to actually learn and most importantly build independant projects, get internships, etc.

[pine sleet]

internships are available for university students to get real world experience working in a real company

[tacit plank]

a "high paying software job" is what you are referring to anyway I guess

[pine sleet]

freelancing won't really be the kind of experience you really want - its mostly just people that'll pay a quick buck to make something basic

[vapid jay]

i start programming at young age and i am quite younge rn so i dont relly want to focus on making money , i just wanna focus on improving my skills

[tacit plank]

also if you don't mind me asking, why do you think you would like to do programming if you, as you've said, do not have any experience in it?

[pine sleet]

if you want to solve complex problems in teams of engineers instead of making random small scripts and websites for random people you're gonna want a degree and internships

[tacit plank]

so do you want a freelancing job to earn money or you want to improve you skills
I am a bit confused

[pine sleet]

freelancing isn't great for just getting experience. if you're young and want to expand your skills, you should make your own side projects. contribute to open source projects as those are often "real world" projects with real impacts

[vapid jay]

i am still at school and as i said i dont want money , i just wanna real life experience , i thought that freelancing will give me that

[tacit plank]

yes that would be a good idea
however, since you are young and quite inexperienced in programming (as am I to an extent), you should prioritize personal projects for now
find a thing you like, and build programs that involve the thing you like

[pine sleet]

it won't. start making projects of increasing complexity, and join up with an important open source project when you feel ready

[vapid jay]

so its all with python or other languages and if other languages what will they be

[tacit plank]

indeed, don't even think to join an open source project before you're ready
also it would a VERY good idea to learn algorithms & data structures and some basic computer science
you will probably have to learn more specific things depending on what kind of work you want to do eventually, but this is not a thing to worry about for now (like if you want to do AI-focused things you'll have to learn a lot of math; or if you want to do systems programming, you'll have to learn computer architecture, etc.)

[pine sleet]

dont focus on the language, focus on the end goal. the language is a tool, not a goal. it will come naturally (programming languages are easy to learn, and companies dont pay you for knowing python)

[vapid jay]

now i am getting more confused

[tacit plank]

like it would be easier for us if you tell us what kind of thing you want to build
a website? a game? a simulation?

[pine sleet]

your goal is to get experience, yes? then focus on that. make projects.

[vapid jay]

ik how to build a website with html and css

[tacit plank]

the company pays you for being able to solve complex problems, not knowing the syntax (i.e. how to write) of a language

[vapid jay]

what projects and what lanuages

[pine sleet]

have you gone deeper? have you tried out a bunch of different frameworks to understand the patterns and philosophies each framework goes by?

[pine sleet]

up to you. find a project that is important to you, then determine that tools and languages will be best for it

[vapid jay]

not really , i have learned python and js basics and some of c++ and html and css and some of cybersecurity

i feel i am distracted

[pine sleet]

that's good. if you're young just focus on exploring and building new things

think of something cool and just build it. you are overthinking it too much

[tacit plank]

that's nice
but again you don't know a language by learning how to write loops or define variables in it, that's knowing the syntax
you know a language by building things in it

[vapid jay]

i have build a simple web scraper with python

[pine sleet]

good, keep building more things

[tacit plank]

no it's totally fine to wander around and try out different tools
I started with Python, then C++, then Rust, then Go, then Ruby, and now I am back to Python

[vapid jay]

so i just learn the basics and then start building??

[tacit plank]

yup pretty much

[pine sleet]

it seems you know the basics already, so you can just start building

[tacit plank]

though again I would like to say that you should learn algorithms & data structures
they help a ton when going deeper into programming, and make switching from language to language very easy
but not now, you should continue building projects

[vapid jay]

like python is all i need , i saw alot of people saying i need js and django and ruby and mysql and alot other so i feel distracted withh all that

[tacit plank]

django is a python framework though

[pine sleet]

don't focus on that. software engineers will pick up all of these in a couple days on the job if need be

[vapid jay]

so can u pick me a roadmap

[pine sleet]

there is no good roadmap that works for everyone

[tacit plank]

but this depends on what you want
my roadmap or Robin's roadmap might be (are) very different from yours

[pine sleet]

i think you are spending too much time worrying about the best and most optimal path, when there is no such thing and you should just be building and learning

[vapid jay]

so how should ik where i start from

[pine sleet]

time spent learning anything is time spent wisely

[pine sleet]

think of a project

[vapid jay]

a website

[pine sleet]

get more specific. the more specific the better, so you don't have scope creep and get burnt out

[tacit plank]

like my first project was simulating the Lorenz attractor (it's a kind of system in math) in Python, because my interests are very mathematical, but that doesn't mean you should do one

[vapid jay]

i have a problem with python that it has alot of libraries , so idk if building a project in cmd is right or no

[pine sleet]

dont worry about that. use the libraries that will help you make your project, ignore the rest

[tacit plank]

libraries just simplify building something, they still depend on what you want to do

[fast fossil]

just build one and you'll find out
do a bit of research here and there, try out multiple things, see what works best for you

[vapid jay]

so making some projects that only in cmd is not waste of time

[pine sleet]

if you learn something new, no matter how small, it is never a waste of time

[vapid jay]

if all projects of python work in cmd , how its used in real life

[tacit plank]

you shouldn't worry about that right now, your priority is to learn

[pine sleet]

command line tools are used all the time. i use dozens of CLIs every day

[fast fossil]

oh yeah, CLIs rock

[pine sleet]

but yes, don't worry about if something you're making is used in the real world. just make it

[tacit plank]

okay I'll just thumbs up everything I agree with lol

[glossy dew]

dive in email, spam detectors, can be an area where I can work as freelancer?

[fast fossil]

it can be, sure
you'll probably have to do some market research though
and have to contend with existing tooling

[pine sleet]

microsoft and google's existing filters are already extremely good, i doubt there's significant demand

[glossy dew]

86% of emails of the world are spam

[vapid jay]

sooo , all i need is now building projects , but what about working , i still wanna work to like see irl projects and contact with customers , you know what i mean

[tacit plank]

like a lot of things that are used in the real world started as hobby projects that some dude built because he thought it would be cool
such as Linux, an amazing operating system from which I am currently typing this message

[pine sleet]

you said you were young, are you of university age or younger?

[vapid jay]

school age but still i wanna interact with people and see how real world work

[pine sleet]

you will learn all that later in university and internships, don't worry about it for now

[tacit plank]

then if you want to, after building some projects, try to contact companies to do a shadowing kind of internship

[vapid jay]

what is shadowing

[tacit plank]

basically an observation-based internship
you don't get to do very much, but you observe how others are working
I don't know about your specific country or situation but here in Lebanon it's a thing if you're convincing enough
I did one in a local uni

I am just throwing the idea out there, since it seems you crave for real-world experience, but as Robin said you shouldn't worry about that for now, you should build projects

[vapid jay]

so basicly its simpler than i think?

[fast fossil]

and how many of them are already handled by existing tooling/services?

[balmy mural]

Another alternative to working on real projects would be contributing to open source projects

[tacit plank]

yes pretty much, you're overthinking a lot of the aspects of software development

[tacit plank]

we have suggested that already, yes!
however, he should still prioritize personal projects since that would give him good experience before getting into FOSS

[balmy mural]

Yea, if you don't really have experience working on personal projects, that's definetly the place to start

[vapid jay]

just one last thing , how did you made your first real life project with python and who did you work for when ypu did it

[balmy mural]

First real life project were personal projects. So I didn't work for anyone

[tacit plank]

uhh honestly I don't know how I managed
my project might be very different from yours but basically I just researched what kind of thing I am building
and then tried to implement it using what I know
then, if that fails, you see ways to fix it, ask people (or AI, though I do not recommend that), etc.
eventually after intense googling you'll find a way to fix it and voila your first personal project
it doesn't need to be super fancy or complicated
you can increase the complexity progressively as you finish more and more projects

[glossy dew]

since they know the number, all

[fast fossil]

so, where do you come into this market?

[tacit plank]

if all the current services handle the problem, how is your solution better (or even equivalent) to theirs?

[glossy dew]

it's not specific about spams, it's dsl, wi-fi configurations,

new ways to encrypted emails etc

[vapid jay]

so whats the best languaue to start irl projects with , i dont really mind i love coding

[tacit plank]

again this depends on what kind of thing you want to build
different languages exist for a reason, which is that each language is good at something
Python is good at rapid prototyping and ease of use (and lots of good packages for data science)
C++ is good for high-performance programs like games or anything of the sort
JavaScript is good at things in the browser
and so on

[glossy dew]

I think C/C++ is very complex and gets more complex and more complex and more dangerous

[tacit plank]

you don't need to scare him away of those languages, even though I am not a fan of them, they have their place

[vapid jay]

i already know some of c++ but i didnt really like it

[glossy dew]

it's not scary at all you can do all the basic operations of programming easily

[tacit plank]

why so? elaborate

[vapid jay]

cuz when i compared it to other langauages i think its so complicated and i can write one python line than can make the same as several lines in c++

[tacit plank]

sure, but this is not a very fair criticism
this is not the point however, let's go back to our main issue
what kind of project do you want to build

[vapid jay]

i dont really know

[balmy mural]

Not a fan of C++ either. Luckily all I ever have to do with it is occasionally read through our framework code to see if an unconventional change could have any unexpected impacts, and had to deal with a race condition in our framework once that was an absolute pain to figure out that the actual issue was a race condition. It definitely has its place, but I'd say just use languages you enjoy for personal projects

[tacit plank]

that's fine, do your research, look at projects people already built on GitHub or YouTube, see what you like, you don't need to rush things for the sake of getting into stuff instantly, take your time to figure out what you like and what you don't, this will make choosing a language/tool trivial

[balmy mural]

Could do some research into what would be the best language to approach your problem in, or could have fun and take an unconventional language to solve your problem in. Both solutions are fine for personal projects imo. Especially if you're not making projects specifically for a CV yet

[vapid jay]

i mean what options do i have

[glossy dew]

just enjoy you will get better with time regardless, programming is a thing that never stops you can't time with it

[tacit plank]

that's up to you
it's theoretically possible to build anything with code, from CLI tools or flight software on an airliner to an operating system

[vapid jay]

i already made something like airline software with python but it wasnt with database and only work in cmd it was more simple

[balmy mural]

Good starting point would be trying to solve a problem you have in your own personal life. Build a min/max calculator for a game you're playing. Build a pipeline that automates a repetitive task you do on the computer. Build something that helps you plan out your meals for recipes and shopping, etc.

[tacit plank]

well try to see ways to improve what you've written, perhaps use a new approach or another tool

[tacit plank]

also a very good point

[vapid jay]

wdym with another tool

[tacit plank]

like if I build something with Python but it is ugly and inefficient, I can add a library which makes it better or something (this is very vague don't take it at face value)

[vapid jay]

ok thx i am gonna start searching

[tacit plank]

good, have fun!

[ornate current]

Hey, what's up? Do you know if I can find job postings in this place, or is this group just for learning and sharing Python practices?

[lost minnow]

Is it normal to work nights in IT

[digital fjord]

If there's an emergency, it wouldn't be out of the question

[smoky quest]

it depends on the role

[lost minnow]

2nd line support engineer for a 24 hour AI business

[smoky quest]

sure

[lost minnow]

Is money really worth it if you have no life in the end?

[smoky quest]

that's entirely up to you

Some people are very happy working night shift, some others aren't

[faint depot]

If you want to feel like death, whilst earning quite a bit of money, go for it

[outer rivet]

Do you guys think getting AWS certified is a good idea for this job market?

[pine sleet]

If it’s a valuable one sure

[fringe sphinx]

Also depends on what job you're looking for

[compact junco]

Any anyone here who received an email from FAANG company with the questions such as

1. Tell me about a large software project that you have designed the architecture for, either the whole system or parts of it?
2. What was the tech stack for this project?

[smoky quest]

what about it?

[compact junco]

did you received any?

[smoky quest]

no faang hasn't sent me anything

[compact junco]

i am just looking for a sample answer. ofcourse i will write my own....

[smoky quest]

it's not like they can't see "inspired" answers anyway

So instead, why don't you try to write one yourself and ask for feedback?

[compact junco]

feedback from persons here?

[smoky quest]

sure

[compact junco]

whats your suggestions for system design learning?

[smoky quest]

I think you are missing the point.
Don't make up shit. Describe actual stuff you have done

[tender sedge]

hello guys

i am flask full stack dev any part time jobs or tasks ?

[zenith burrow]

Read the channel topic, it's for you to get help to get a career (e.g. CV) not getting a job/advertise to ask for a job

[compact junco]

i did not asked to answer the questions. That's why i asked on top of sure
i was asking for sources in general

[trim crypt]

https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer

[smoky quest]

There aren't really any source about that. This is just asking you about your past experience and describing some cool stuff you have done.
So there is no right or wrong answer. Though making up things or stating things that aren't from your experience will be easy to spot and make your application rejected

[wispy condor]

im going to obtain a bachelor in IT

[austere swan]

I learned python, and for web learned html and now learning css for django/flask, my question is if I have give consistently 6 to 9 hours to coding in a day for 1 year, can i make money ?

[austere swan]

Whole argument can be start upon this, but i don't have a degree congratulations to me, I will join boot camps and make one certificate from winter internship

[tacit plank]

I would still suggest getting a degree if you want to do freelance or work for a company

[austere swan]

I can do everything it takes, except degree (that it not takes)

[tacit plank]

unfortunately in the modern market you can’t be too picky

[austere swan]

I will see

[tacit plank]

unless you get lucky and are able to compensate the lack of degree with a lot of experience and amazing personal projects and perhaps even open source contributions, a degree might be necessary and is often a requirement in positions

[austere swan]

But never take degree

[austere swan]

As I said I can do everything accept bending (degree)

[tacit plank]

bending to what

[austere swan]

To teachers that don't have enough knowledge and are outdated

[cold bison]

It’s a little weird that you mentioned having a degree as one of the necessary conditions for the modern market. If it’s modern, why is a degree one of its necessary conditions?

[tacit plank]

I think you’re missing the point of a degree which is to learn the bases of computer science i.e. the science of computation

the IT landscape changes significantly every 5-7 years so degree programs can at best slightly adapt their tools but never retrain their faculty

if you get a degree, and learn those tools, which are still in pretty high demand nowadays, you will be able to learn any other tool relatively easily

[tacit plank]

modern in the sense of current
most positions require a degree
this is a fact not an opinion

[cold bison]

I agree with you, but don’t you think it’s a good time to change this fact?

[tacit plank]

if you know say Java very well and have a solid foundation in DSA, the theory of computation, and computer architecture no one’s stopping you from learning C/C++ or even Rust

also most major universities have a lot of electives that allow you to pick your interests

[tacit plank]

I believe degrees are very important for everyone, and while people that don’t want to pursue degrees shouldn’t be forced to, the main issue is not the degree itself but that it has become prohibitively expensive through the years (gotta love capitalism)

[tacit plank]

and you can still work on personal projects, learn in your free time, do internships, contribute to open source projects and have fun!

the opportunities are there, you just have to take them

[austere swan]

As I also tell what is the reality of degrees I am not wasting time again by explaining that again

I will learn cs if I needed online
For now I am learning that will needed to make money/business or doing freelance / jobs

[cold bison]

It's not important for everyone, as I read an article recently stating that managers are not interested in hiring someone who has recently graduated because they believe those candidates cannot endure the work environment.

[austere swan]

Yes bro i agree with you

[tacit plank]

Except you can show that you can endure a work environment by getting experience through internships and personal projects

[tacit plank]

If you don’t want to accept it, it’s not really my problem, you can do a degree, and you can not do a degree, but I am warning you that most roles require a university degree or equivalent experience to even have a shot at the role

[austere swan]

We can do those internships and personal projects without colleges

[tacit plank]

sure but try convincing the company that you know what you’re doing

as I’ve said you can compensate a degree with projects and open source contributions or internships but you can’t replace it

[austere swan]

No bro, thanks if you want to help us, but reality is something else, 🙏

[tacit plank]

I’ve heard of people going back to college to get a raise because that position required at least a Bachelor’s degree

[austere swan]

Degrees are nothing mean to companies, you are provided with false information

[tacit plank]

sure then I’ll give you an experiment

go to indeed for a junior developer role and see the requirements

[austere swan]

I already more than 10000 jobs combining both freelance and physical that don't require degrees but need very good experience and projects / skills, I'm not wasting my time again

Degrees are waste of money and energy

[tacit plank]

sure then try your luck with your projects and experience

but I do have to warn you that people get rejected from internships with a degree, already existing experience and open source contributions with personal projects

so you will really have to be either lucky or extremely brilliant to get them

[austere swan]

Skills/grinding = Freelance = money = business,
All one need is patience and intrest

[austere swan]

They rejected because they lack something either or they are not much intrested in this field and come only because of money

[tacit plank]

no those were amazing and very talented people they just got autorejected because they weren’t competitive enough and needed more experience

you don’t need to assume things about people that were rejected, you do not know those people, the current market is just ruthless

[austere swan]

So they should make good portfolio

And because I'm giving these short answers because I don't have time

[tacit plank]

no they had one, they just got rejected for arbitrary reasons, 5 years ago such a resume would’ve been a guaranteed FAANG job

[fringe sphinx]

That's good wishful thinking, but reality seldom matches expectations.

(I agree with Daniel)

[tacit plank]

yeah that’s what I’ve been trying to tell him this entire time

[austere swan]

This argument is never ending I'm replying last time, There is many ways to impress those
Second We have more good companies except this FAANG Not follow sheeps bye

[tacit plank]

the current market is not some kind of sigma grindset or whatever the fuck you are saying, it’s a ruthless land where the rich rule and you can’t do much about it other than becoming more competitive

one of the easiest ways to become more competitive is getting a good degree that would arrange for internships and other opportunities

if you don’t want that, fine by me, but you are making your job more complicated than it should be

[austere swan]

As I already told this is never ending argument
But i don't have never ending time

[fringe sphinx]

It's all good, we can agree to disagree. Just consider that some of us have work experience and are hiring managers: we know how we pick engineers.

[austere swan]

I also saying because of what I observe to depth levels, surroundings , market , of my real life experiences, stories are bigger than you think, we better stop here other wise we end up wasting a precious time

Arguments are never ending, o also saying this because of my observation

All have different ideologies

Maybe maybe 0.0000001 % reality maybe in between

[fringe sphinx]

Let me go back to your original question here: how to maximize your chances. 1. Get any tech work experience on your resume... QA, Support, Ops, etc. 2. Build a broad foundation (Linux, Cloud, Networking, DevOps, CI/CD, etc... whatever interests you... but don't overspecialize). 3. Network - your opportunities will probably come through people you know/meet.

[austere swan]

I will choose only people with only high skills who can maximize the profit of my company , no matter how much time it takes

Or I will hire good people who have power to judge fairly

Hmm I already conclude that

[tacit plank]

except that’s not how they do it
the fact that you would do it this way does not imply that this will happen

[austere swan]

Hmm, is leetcode helpful?

[fringe sphinx]

It has a use, but is not a good thing to grind.

(it's specifically useful for prepping for big tech OAs, which tend to use leetcode-like questions... but it's something you do after getting good at programming)

[austere swan]

Thanks

[fringe sphinx]

If you're looking for practice sites, exercism and codewars are a bit better for "getting good".

[austere swan]

Ok, is there prize pool too?

[fringe sphinx]

No idea

Whatever you do, don't grind one thing. Variety is how you become this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKAue9DiHc0

[austere swan]

Unfortunately, I not like to told you I have not good money to hire people right now, but I meet investors indirectly

[tacit plank]

well that doesn’t answer the question

or rather it avoids answering the question

[plush summit]

Had a jobmarket today for uni was pretty fun thinking of doing an internship for asml

[tacit plank]

niceee congrats!

[austere swan]

My way to hire people - no background, not anything
Skills that needed for work, if person has ability to maximize the profit take it other wise say sorry

[tacit plank]

how does one even “indirectly” meet an investor? using a ouija board?

[tacit plank]

but you haven’t actually hired anyone for a company
how the hell would have a “way to hire people”?

[austere swan]

Yes but I know lot of entrepreneurs, the great example is musk , most of thinking of him is like me .

[austere swan]

I meet people who have lot of work pressure and looking for software engineer , their work is related to ai

[tacit plank]

yes that’s what I’ve been trying to explain to him this entire time

they have automated systems that discriminate people based on having a degree or not

this isn’t ideological, this is factual

[austere swan]

I already told you, I'm not losing the argument neither you losing it, we both have different ideologies

[tacit plank]

there is stuff that happens in companies and stuff you think happens in companies

both of which are very different

[austere swan]

There is sky difference in our ideologies I think, if we keep talking like this we end up wasting a lot of time

[tacit plank]

yeah I am was wondering the same thing as well

[tacit plank]

are you being intensionally dense or I am missing something

[austere swan]

Because I want the person who see this messages in future make good decisions not by thinking if one win so he is only correct

[austere swan]

I have no mood of argue, I come form fu°°°* school while learning things still i giving your replies, you should be thankful .

I feel sleepy but I don't want to sleep to save my time

[tacit plank]

brother we all keep repeating you the same thing: modern recruiters prioritize people with degrees, a degree is not a guarantee of getting a job, but to get a job you most likely need a degree, exceptions are exceptionally rare

whether you believe that degrees are useful or not, this is irrelevant

there is factual information based on companies’ recruiting strategies and there is you that keeps arguing otherwise

[austere swan]

Lmao

[austere swan]

I already give the answer above

[near ocean]

People here forget about this pin #career-advice message and thats how we get to this conversation

[tepid marsh]

"im the alpha" ahh message

[austere swan]

The thing is you don't want to hear other perspectives, and only supporting your thoughts

[tacit plank]

which is clearly an invalid answer that does not address the issue as all of us keep repeating to you

[tepid marsh]

idk what this is about properly but i think daniel is right

[tacit plank]

this is not “my thought” (whatever that meansI have no axe to grind in this

[austere swan]

Everyone has different perspectives, maybe according to you it's wrong

[tacit plank]

he was asking if he can get a job (freelancing or not) without a degree and then went on a long rant about how he’s too sigma to go to college to learn from old professors about “useless things”

[tepid marsh]

i think this guy watched too much tiktok

[tacit plank]

I wish it were tiktok

[austere swan]

Tiktok is banned in my country

[tepid marsh]

yeah he watched too much tiktok or hes high or sum

[fringe sphinx]

We can agree to disagree, but don't need to insult.

[austere swan]

I don't like insta

[tepid marsh]

too much dumb podcasts or something?

[tepid marsh]

alr alr my bad

[tacit plank]

while I do agree that insulting him is not the way to do it, he clearly got aggressive first

[austere swan]

I don't like podcasts , they are also people

[tepid marsh]

soo you'll trust ai or sum?

[near ocean]

Theres no point trying so hard to convince someone not to do the silly thing and take themselves out of competition imho
If theyre so focused on doing it the "hard way", that's better for all of us anyway

[tepid marsh]

either way a degree is essential maybe you just hate studying or sum

a ordinary person cant fly a plane straight out of high school

[austere swan]

I only love programming and making money out of it , bye

[tacit plank]

I mean I wouldn't feel good about obviously jeopardizing someone's career because they couldn't grasp the simple reality of the market

[fringe sphinx]

Best of luck. Remember to network, and get experience on your resume as early as possible.

[tepid marsh]

i swear they need to decrease the slowmode here

[tacit plank]

yes please, like 10 seconds

[near ocean]

Some people only learn after they've already fucked up

[fringe sphinx]

That's how I learned

[tepid marsh]

anyway point is without a degree its pretty hard to get a job, you'll have to work your way up from the bottom and need connections and stuff yk

[tacit plank]

I mean I learn by being anxious about things going sideways lol

[austere swan]

Hmm, im not ordinary but, now you will say everyone says im not ordinary, then I wll say confidence is necessary and give you reasons also and then blahhhhhhh and then on reply blahhhhhh,
Congo you waste my 1 hour already, I don't want to waste 1 more

[near ocean]

Thats not good billybobby, ideally you wanna not do that 😔

[austere swan]

Hmm

[tepid marsh]

yes not ordinary, as in special needs?

[tacit plank]

I honestly can't take this guy seriously bruh

[fringe sphinx]

Let's just end the conversation here, please.

[tepid marsh]

fr

[tacit plank]

I mean until someone else comes up with another conversation we are bound to talk about that

[tepid marsh]

confidence is nessesary but that doesnt mean your ego should be up in the sky

[fringe sphinx]

Let's talk about Amazon's forced return to work policy: is this a layoff in disguise?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-ceo-andy-jassy-faces-004257911.html

[tepid marsh]

havent heard of it ( i live under a rock)

[tacit plank]

It is though

There is basically no argument to be made for the contrary

[tepid marsh]

eh this desicion wouldnt it be bad for the company though

[near ocean]

executives being out of touch with reality, in other news, water is wet

[iron hedge]

anyone know python selenium?

[near ocean]

not in this channel we dont

[iron hedge]

when i can ask?

[near ocean]

whenever, in #python-discussion

[plush summit]

Nobody knows selenium not even the creator of it

[cunning adder]

here

[true harness]

avoiding taxes

[near ocean]

If amazon wants to get out of their bad real estate deals so much they can line up for the people to eat them instead

[fringe sphinx]

The circle of life

[white relic]

the problem with wealth inequality is that there just aren't enough billionaires to go around

[muted night]

Are they asking too much for a fresher or is it just the standard now a days

[white relic]

neither, imo.
there are new CS grads with this set of skills, but it isn't necessarily "standard" either.
in particular, I wouldn't expect CS grads to necessarily have hands on knowledge of AWS or Azure

I find the commas ambiguous in "C,C++, Java,Python, etc." (also the inconsistent spacing)
but I would assume that they represent an OR function and not AND

the second bullet is probably the actual tech stack they use.

[buoyant seal]

i suspect that this job vacancy was written with having graduates in mind, as C/C++ is regular part of university graduation
At the same time students learn almost nothing about them in depth
So questionable level of depth expected to know here

We can see Profficient Knowledge is asked only for Java, Javascript, Html, Css
So essentially they ask Java + JS only + usage of at least one cloud.
Everything else is trash around added to fill space and could be "nice to know"

We could cut it even more shortly, that they ask here mostly Java dev. with knowledge oriented for web dev/backend
As Javascript knowledge is kind of expected from any web dev today. Except they ask as it may be stronger than usual and see expected full stack dev or dev working with js (vanilla/jquery/htmx) from java backend directly (under question at which level JS they see it profficient, may be not at super deep level as there is no mention of TS/React and other node.js stuff)

[near ocean]

Its a bad set of requirements meant to get into as many filtered searches as possible 🤷‍♀️
Just say what your stack is so we can move on, its not that complicated

[fringe sphinx]

We don't allow recruiting on this server, your post has been removed

[tender pine]

i m recruiting i m just looking for a friend to work with me on a project.. like i m not paying etc. its for fun

[past field]

What should I do to get a job

[peak halo]

start a computer science degree, do well in the courses, get involved on campus, do internships, apply for jobs.

[past field]

So what is the best way to get EXPERIENCE

[peak halo]

getting involved on campus and doing internships.

[past field]

Ok thanks, even tho I am young, my teacher suggested that I start early to get better

[peak halo]

you can always start practicing on your own, but it's very rare to get a programming job as a teen.

[past field]

Yeah Ik bcz of underaged so that's why most jobs reject it, but I'll just learn till I get to 25 or some

[quaint lily]

Is an apprenticeship at a large company better or worse than a degree?

[deft herald]

It should go hand-in-hand with a degree tbh. But on its own, i would think a degree would be better

[quaint lily]

Even with all the people who get out of uni and cant get a job?

[peak halo]

I don't know anyone who's gotten an apprenticeship. I do know people who have gotten co-ops. which is when you take a break from courses for a time to work at a company full-time (but still as part of your degree).

[deft herald]

yeah i guess i don't know the difference between apprenticeship and internship

[quaint lily]

Nor do i

If anybody does, whats the difference?

[deft herald]

I think they have a higher placement rate than those that drop out before getting their degree

[quaint lily]

If it helps im in the uk

[fringe sphinx]

One thing: focus on doing things that interest you. It's hard to stay motivated, even harder if you're doing something you don't like. All of us like different things, even in programming.

[fringe sphinx]

This is exaggerated, as far as i can tell.. How many do you know like this?

[quaint lily]

Only a couple, but i dont know many uni grads

[fringe sphinx]

I can only speak anecdotally about UK (from people I've talked to here) but CS majors are getting jobs.

[quaint lily]

Where are you based?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm in US, but I'm talking about the UK (and rest of Europe) ppl who have posted here.

But, it's also about personal effort and ability: a degree is just part of the puzzle. If you graduate unable to code, it's going to go badly for you (and this happens)

[fringe sphinx]

Read about the history of fizz buzz if you're wondering, I have interviewed CS grads who failed a fizz buzz (equivalent)

[quaint lily]

Interesting

[near ocean]

Degree apprenticeships are pretty competitive, much more so than degrees

[quaint lily]

I see

Thanks for the advice guys

[clever elk]

anyone wanna help

[zinc token]

anything good for quick and also long term

[dapper bane]

I am going to put this game on my resume what should I say when asked in the intereview about it also what should i ansewer when asked y r u leaving previous organiszation . The real reason I leave my previous organisation was their work from office policy that requires moving to another state https://saintelgrandosmokio.itch.io/puzzlegame

pong pong me if u someone can holp

[near ocean]

just say that? Whats wrong with saying their new WFH policy is the cause

[dapper bane]

i dont know thats y i was asking what bout my game should i put it in my resume ?

[quaint lily]

Yeah thats most of the reason im considering it. Its gonna be like 90 grand for a 3 yr course and thats not even including accommodation, food etc

[near ocean]

Where do you get 90k?
Its 9250£ a year for UK citizens

[digital whale]

Hi, im 15 years old, and i know some JS and python, and HTML and CSS as markup languages, my JS knowledge is not as good as my Python's. In a realistic scenario, without any bias, what do you think the most common language that most jobs look for.

[tacit plank]

This depends on what kind of job we're talking about as different roles require different tools

[digital whale]

yeah, but i want to know what the demand is

[peak halo]

JS, HTML, and CSS are the trinity of front-end web development.
Back-end web development can be in essentially any language; JS and Python are both possibilities.

[fringe sphinx]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2024 is one answer.

[peak halo]

if you got a job doing both front-end and back-end web development, you would need to know at least all three of JS, HTML, and CSS; you may or may not be asked to use Python.

[fringe sphinx]

But the reality is: there are many jobs in every specialty. Whether you pick the #1 or #5, it's a huge market

[peak halo]

(and if you don't end up doing web development of any kind, then none of JS, HTML, or CSS would matter.)

[digital whale]

oh thank you

[fringe sphinx]

(And, like everyone else said, language alone doesn't make a SWE)

[tacit plank]

Like let's say you're working in scientific computing, C/C++ would be the de facto tools for most roles

[digital whale]

alrr thank you

[peak halo]

what is "scientific computing" under your definition?

[digital whale]

whats SWE

[tacit plank]

Stuff that involves intense numerical number-crunching, Monte-Carlo simulations, computational physics or chemistry, etc.
I'll admit it is quite broad but it is usually called "scientific computing"

[digital whale]

and does TS and JS have similar syntax

[tacit plank]

TypeScript is a superset of JS so yes

[peak halo]

TS is typed JS; I think TS just gets transpiled to JS.

[peak halo]

alright. because from what I understand, practioners of natural sciences (physics, chemistry, biology, etc) all mostly use Python.

[digital whale]

okay thank you

[tacit plank]

I would very much like Rust to get a good spot up there

[tacit plank]

Yes because they do not do the number-crunching. You use Python for basic calculations and data analysis at most. Maybe machine learning but that's pushing it. However, when you need to simulate numerical solutions for nasty PDEs, most use C/C++

You have more esoteric languages that are used, like Julia if someone likes Python but that needs extra performance, or the FORM language, used primarily in (particle) physics for many amplitude calculations with a huge number of integral expressions to handle and (hopefully) simplify

Python is also used by a lot of mathematicians in large part thanks to SageMath, the largest open source CAS

I used to simulate PDEs with Python, it was a pain

[fringe sphinx]

Software engineer. It's more than just learning a language.

[digital whale]

ahh okay

[fringe sphinx]

At 15, best bet is to try different things and find what interests you. You might pick Python now and end up working in C++, or pick Rust now and end up doing a lot of Js. The skills will be transferable.

[digital whale]

yeah i got back into web dev a couple weeks ago after stopping for roblox dev, idk what i was thinking

i tried c# in unity as well, i hated it, i guess game dev isnt my thing

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe try a data project. I enjoy data problems. Kaggle.com/learn is a good starting point

[digital whale]

tysm

[smoky quest]

there is more to gamedev than c#/unity

playing with a raspberry pi with python and some electronic can be fun too!

[buoyant seal]

game dev also exists as C++ unreal engine
Also web tools can be used for game dev too in js/ts i can imagine 😉
Some people made/make legendary grade level games in Java. Minecraft with its 100'000k modding community, or Starsector that managed to do same, even if at smaller scale.

[digital whale]

yeah i want to do that but i have no money xD

[digital whale]

yeahh i see a lot of those aswell, thank you

[smoky quest]

and godot!

[buoyant seal]

considering how awesome game dev results in Java, like https://fractalsoftworks.com/
and it being usable also for Backend, Android and Desktop development in general... we can say it is pretty universal language

[fringe sphinx]

Hmm, I guess I need to make a game in SQL.

[lost minnow]

It’s so beautiful

[weary jay]

:O

[crisp stream]

!cban 789515636447248435 Spam

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @mental gazelle permanently.

[lilac sundial]

What kind of projects are universities looking for when im applying to them to pursue a MS in computer science

---

Afaik they really stress on your resume and your statement of purpose and try to see if they resemble each other

I have about 2 months before i apply and im currently preparing for the gre exam. Given my current situation, should i actually try to even make a project or just keep my gpa and gre grades good?

[summer ocean]

Where do you currently live brother @digital whale

[near ocean]

Grades are the important part, if theyre expecting personal projects it should say so on admissions pages

[lilac sundial]

I have one more semester after ill apply, but i havent done anything remarkable in terms of projects, just websites and whatnot.

Will personal stuff like Open Src stuff or apps rly make the diference?

[fringe pine]

where i could find my frist django job?

ello , could any one help me to find my frist python job where to search i can not find my frist job at upword

[balmy mural]

linkedin, indeed, and your local job boards are the best places to look at

[lilac sundial]

For my resume project, should i use ML and neural networks or am i overcomplicating things

Im making this project to get into a univerity for my MS, i would like to hear what you guys hav to say abt this

[terse veldt]

Hello, I am a developer from the UK. My name is Raziye Huseyin. I am working as an online remote freelancer for an AI company to improve the AI model. I give human feedback for programming problems to the response of the AI chatbot. They are looking for developers, They pay $30 per hour. I can refer you if you are interested. You can send me a DM for details.

[true harness]

are you applying in the US?

[near ocean]

Is this dataannotation

[lilac sundial]

Yes

[true harness]

the specific project doesn't matter. what matters is the demonstrated skills. they need to know that you are ready for graduate level work

[lilac sundial]

How would i go about demonstrating that

And i would just like to mention that all my projects thus far are literal garbage so i dont think i can make any mwntion of those

[terse veldt]

no

[near ocean]

Ok well regardless youre not supposed to try to recruit here

[true harness]

you could do something like, "I did this and learned this. this is good because..."

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

What the fuck is wrong with some people

[still condor]

!cleanban @vapid jay go to hell

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @night fossil permanently.

[lilac sundial]

Ym in my statement of purpose?

Is it compulsory that i have a project on my resume ready to go for when its time to apply?

Sorry if im asking too much today i just hav 2 much on my mind

[true harness]

yes

[true harness]

no

[lilac sundial]

Alr then

I got scared bc i heard that your sop had to match w ur resume projects otherwise even "safe schools" would reject u

Can u become a research assistant or are you limited to only bcoming a teaching asistant when doing ur ms in cs
Idk if research work would apply to this field, hence i am asking this question

[white relic]

Few things are compulsory, but many things help.

[true harness]

part of the sop is a "highlight reel". you can cover the same topics, but it shouldn't be the same, otherwise you're not saying anything new

[lilac sundial]

Alr

[true harness]

it depends on the program and your goals. becoming a research assistant only makes sense if you want to research

[lilac sundial]

I would like to have at least one project ready and on hand though

Is any project that includes ML and so on sufficient?

[true harness]

are you trying to focus on ML?

[lilac sundial]

No not particularly but is this not a related subject?

[true harness]

the main thing they want to see is that you know what you're going to do after the degree. a random project that isn't related to your interests or why you want a degree is not going to help

[lilac sundial]

Would you be able to suggest any ideas then my guy

[true harness]

well, why do you want an MS? why does it have to be at this specific school, that you can't get the same online?

I didn't mean an online MS. I meant literally just learning online

[lilac sundial]

Im also not aware of what the disadvantages are when it comes to doing it online over being there physically

[lilac sundial]

Learning what specifically

[true harness]

the content that is covered in a ms degree

[lilac sundial]

wouldnt i earn more with an actual MS on hand

[ruby dagger]

Hey I am a beginner and I want to be a ai developer

[true harness]

maybe, but you need to convince the school that you need them and that they need you. if your reasoning is literally just "it will improve my career", that's not compelling enough. you need to add specifics

[white relic]

There's definitely research to do in cs if that's what you're asking.
Whether you can get a RA job depends on a lot of factors

[lilac sundial]

Wdym by RA job, im not interested in doing any reasearch whatsoever. Reason i asked was bc afaik it helps with tuition fees

[white relic]

research assistant was what you asked about in the comment I replied to

[soft bridge]

hello everyone, i'm interviewing for a django dev role but i'm sent some assesements about django, rest django and sql, advanced sql, do you guys have any recommandations for preparation resources?

it's been 5 years since i did django but managed to get 21 out of 25 quizz questions on w3school.

[lilac sundial]

Thank u btw

[bronze obsidian]

What's the situation in your country, is there a huge influx of CS majors?
In my country CS is considered superior and Mechanical is considered a Low tier branch and Electrical is like mid

[pastel forge]

omg this is so cool! What did you use to make this if i may ask?

[dapper bane]

man someone was saying it looks like a spam link I feel really demotivated now

[pastel forge]

I just tried playing it. I want to create something like this in the future for fun haha

[pastel forge]

but it's cool tho!

[dapper bane]

The original game had 100M downloads its called tomb of the mask

[near ocean]

🤨 these majors arent even in competition with each other, that makes no sense

[bronze obsidian]

Here we have rank based selection of engeneering branches and 95% of top rankers always choose CSE
So it's like CSE>ELECTRICAL>MECH>CHEM>CIVIL

[bronze obsidian]

I was asking like what's the popular branch that many students take in your country

[fringe sphinx]

What country are we talking about?

These statistics are usually available online. You can look up US and UK enrollment numbers by major, for instance

[bronze obsidian]

India

[vapid jay]

What happened to India?

[near ocean]

Mech eng is the most popular engineering discipline in the UK

[bronze obsidian]

Nothing , I was talking about the engineering branch trend here

[loud iris]

Hi all, 3YOE full stack software engineer struggling to land interviews. would greatly appreciate any resume roasts or nitpicks.

A lot of people said I focus too much on what I did rather than my impact and value I brought to the company. Hoping I addressed that with these recent changes. I don't have exact metrics available though.

Other common feedback I received on this server, hoping the following were addressed:

• Projects not impactful or complex enough for 3YOE?
• Too bland/vague?
• Bulletpoints too long?
• Too flowery/inflated for simple tasks?
• Not enough metrics/numbers?
• Bulletpoints not specific enough?
• Not enough content/too much whitespace?
• Missing any keywords or experiences for full stack developers?

Open to any bay area company, ideally a big tech company (open to relocation for those) but open to startups and small companies too.

[fringe sphinx]

Doesn't seem bad, for starters. Don't see any of my usual nitpicks. I think you could frame your experience better: the current role emphasizes internal tool development and starts with a broad description of the role... the first bullet of first experience is the most important in a resume: use it wisely

I also don't believe in the impact stuff being all the important. I don't care if you claim 75% improvement. (It's nice, but it generally looks like fluff)

The fourth bullet doesn't parse for me (about time reporting), that's confusing

I would suggest emphasizing your web dev, azure and java experience in separate bullets. Frame yourself as a full stack dev, not as a 'internal tool dev'

[loud iris]

Thanks for feedback. so instead of each bulletpoint describing a project/task, each bulletpoint would describe my experience in Java, web dev, and azure?

So should the 1st bullet not be a job description? Or just frame it so I'm more of a full stack developer instead of internal tool dev? People suggested that I put a job description because they were confused by what exactly my role was. but I didn't want to mess with ATS scanners by doing that, so I just put it as a 1st bulletpoint.

I think recruiters along with some hiring managers really care about impact, so i'm still trying to balance between catering to recruiters and hiring managers who just want to see the technical details

[fringe sphinx]

I think you handled the impact stuff fine... you put it last in the bullets,.. some people over emphasize it. I don't think a job description is that important. Just say what you did

[last slate]

being crude honest, how hard is to enter a junior python related job in EU?

[fringe sphinx]

Answer depends on context... any degree or experience or other qualifications?

(I also don't know europe, I'm just asking the necessary question)

[last slate]

degree in computer science, but as a dumb teenager didnt payed full atention on classes

[fringe sphinx]

I feel that.

[last slate]

worked on some construction jobs till regret crumbled my conscience, now trying to recover the lost time (22 yrs old)

hope im not too late

[fringe sphinx]

I hope you heard me laugh from wherever you are.

You're 22. You're good.

[last slate]

sometimes i feel the clock is ticking and im not in a good job, just fking up my body on this construction jobs... the regret of not attending all classes hits me like a truck daily

[fringe sphinx]

I did so bad in my first go at college, I joined the military. I later got my shit together. You'll be fine.

[last slate]

im fed up, i want to code and at least have some like, time for me ... and rest a lil bit my bod

[fringe sphinx]

So, standard advice follows:

1. Network: if you're a little off the path, best opportunities come from friends, friends of friends, family friends, etc.
2. Tech is bigger than programming: there are many jobs you can enter the industry through, like QA, DevOps, Support, etc. This is a good way to get relevant experience on your resume
3. Practice. A little at a time. Write code and hang out in #python-discussion when you can. Just learn something new every day.

[last slate]

my friend recomended me learning django,react,docker and git.... and i would be good to enter any junior job

i just dont want to waste any more second of my life...

[fringe sphinx]

imo, best strategy is to focus on the things in your control right now. You could start looking for adjacent jobs now, while practicing. I bet you'd get lucky, and get closer to your goal sooner that way, then waiting a year to practice skills that you're not sure will be job relevant.

[burnt ore]

What websites/platforms do you use to find remote jobs? … do you use any paid subscriptions access remote jobs?

[vapid jay]

Hmmm

[near ocean]

Linkedin and indeed
Theres a couple sites that seem to focus on remote jobs specifically, you can google for them
You dont need to pay for any of these services

[median sentinel]

@wraith vine mb i got distracted and didnt respond in time in the ticket

[last slate]

my plan is to invest 8 hours daily to it... no excuses, no instagram, just raw study

time to lock in and pull out this tech job

[fringe sphinx]

That's burnout city.

[last slate]

i work best this way, under pressure

if im not locked in, i guarente that i will lose foccus

[fringe sphinx]

Balance your time then. Don't grind one thing for too long.

Reading, practice problems, new topics, watch conference videos (PyCon, europython), etc

[last slate]

30 minutes break?

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, do different things. Divide your time up.

[true harness]

what will be different now, compared to when you were in school? i.e., what is your plan to actually lock in?

[last slate]

Im way more conscious about how real life is when u get out of parents house things like bills, responsabilitys, wife, things that really matter most than "parties"," meaningless girls", and being "accepted"

I will simply clean my room to make it with no distractions, put my phone out of the room and lock me in there like im the joker in Arkham asylum... When the 8 hours wear off, i will leave the room and do whatever i want to do, from relaxing to playing to cooking, or even some Duolingo

Also, i plan to divide my studies in separet days for ex: Monday: python
Tuesday: Django
Wednesday: React

So i never burnout... Every day is a different thing and i can get advantage of my spent time

[hardy sentinel]

Yeah guys

[fickle cove]

how tocode

[covert bronze]

hello everyone

[wanton birch]

You are very right about it. I have the same problem as @last slate . The solution that is working for me now is to rotate projects. Otherwise at some point I burn out. The rotation of projects keeps things feeling fresh.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, a problem with setting unrealistic expectations (like grinding for 8 hours) is you're never good enough: 1 hour studying becomes a fail not a success

[last slate]

I think its possible with some waterbreaks, and 20 mins pauses

[fringe sphinx]

I'd advise: just start, see what works for you, and don't setup arbitrary goals until you know. Me, if I'm working on something I'm enjoying, I can work for long hours and have to force myself to go to bed. If I'm studying something difficult and abstract, I can barely do 30 min without a break.

[last slate]

I cannot be unfocused... I dont want to lose any more time of my life doing nothing

I will try it as u talked to me but i will do it like my lifes on the line

[vapid jay]

Those who know: 😈👿😈😈☠️😈😈☠️😈👿💸

[chrome cedar]

I currently work for AWS but with their announcement of 5-day RTO (plus the work I'm doing not really being fulfilling) I'm applying for remote positions at Nvidia, MS, GitHub, and Netflix.

Anyone have any guidance for what I could be doing outside of applying to positions I'm interested in / qualified for on their respective job sites? I've connected with some hiring managers / recruiters at Nvidia but haven't heard back yet

[peak halo]

how long ago did you apply?

[chrome cedar]

For some positions it was about 2 weeks ago without a response or review, which I know is fairly normal
I just want to move as quick as possible since things can take a while but I'd want to find a new positions before the new year

[fringe sphinx]

Prepare the best resume you can. Get outside review (including here). Add recent projects to show personal development. Network: reconnect and have lunch with friends/acquiantances

[fringe sphinx]

Also, expand your horizon: the tech industry isn't just mega big tech. You may find more fulfilling work in very different environments

[frank grove]

Hi guys I want to build resume by building projects i have been coding for enough time now so now I know it . I have started with Andrew ng ML course in Coursera. Can you guys help me by recommending me projects which will help get a really great job in the industry

[chrome cedar]

Main reason I'm looking at big tech is the pay, unfortunately
Basically in a position where I'm paying for myself (plus trying to save for a wedding and then a house), supporting my mom who is near retirement, and supporting my younger brother as he finishes college

And the only other major factor is how much I "believe" in the work, if that makes sense. I'm not looking for positions in fields like ads, or work at places like SeatGeek that prey on other people. Weird principle thing, I know

[peak halo]

do you have a CS degree with AI-related coursework?

[frank grove]

I don't have a cs engineering degree i am a chemical engineer who shifted to computers and tech

[peak halo]

I work in AI professionally. I think your best path to victory is to go back and get a masters that relates to AI/ML.

[frank grove]

Job wise I work in catalogue team since it has crazy data

I automate stuff on python for them and recently implemented a rating system for them and I am working on a ML project

This is for the company that I work for

[fringe sphinx]

I think you'll be surprised, the pay is competitive at a wide range of companies.

[ruby geyser]

there are 24 year olds making 320k+

[white relic]

there are people who win the lottery.

[ruby geyser]

i htink they are just very smart and hardworking and know how to interview well

its very impressive

[fringe sphinx]

Do you know them personally?

[white relic]

being smart and hardworking and interviewing well are all great things. They will not get you a 0.1% top paying job.

[ruby geyser]

yes

[white relic]

That kind of money comes from very good connections or very very good luck, likely both.

[smoky quest]

Even if they do, am not sure how that helps with the conversation

[ruby geyser]

i am adding to the point Billy made that the pay is competitve at a lot of companies that it can get pretty high

[smoky quest]

or great startup

[white relic]

320k at 24 is beyond "competitive" pay.

[ruby geyser]

'competitive' is a relative term

[fringe sphinx]

My point was only that; OP mentioned 5 mega techs, and I believe that SWEs can get comparable TC packages at far more companies than just those 5.

[ruby geyser]

agreed

[chrome cedar]

For added context, I just had my 2 year anniversary at AWS. My hiring involved a 4-year payment setup:
Base Pay: $185K
Total RSU's: 1650 shares
Year 0-1: $105k bonus spread across the year, no stocks until 1 year anniversary where I get 5% of the total RSU's (83)
Year 1-2: $78k bonus spread across the year, no stocks until 2nd year anniversary where I got 15% of the promised RSU's (248)
Years 3-5: No bonuses, Get 20% of the promised RSU's (330) every 6 months until my 5 year anniversary

That is definitely a lot of money, but now without a bonus I'm not really able to save when basically supporting 2.5 families

My base increased by $2.5k which is nice, but I didn't get anything more than that because every time I was working on some pay raise with my manager, the manager would be gone
First time they swapped my manager with another guy, then the new guy retired 8 months later, and we just got a new person who I am not a fan of at all

[lilac sundial]

Should i create a whole full stack app to put on my resume so i dont get rejected from the uni i want to go to

Is this overkill

[peak halo]

Why are you worried about being rejected? How are your grades, especially in math?

[lilac sundial]

Im doing my bachelors in CS rn, my gpa is above 3 give or take when i convert my scores

Im trying to get into a uni to do my masters

[true harness]

do you not have any existing, actual projects?

[lilac sundial]

I do but they are garbo

They either have No interface or they are like dumb crappy websites thus they dont apply to this field correct me if im wrong

[true harness]

it doesn't have to be perfect, as long as you can articulate why it demonstrates that you will be successful in an MS program

[smoky quest]

For instance, look at projects from stanford for their bachelor:

• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GIsGZKozmTxqzmXLt7FBmVRCHVJvgd_1DD-f9f5PwkU/edit?gid=0#gid=0
• https://cs229.stanford.edu/proj2021spr/

So for masters, expectations might be higher

[smoky quest]

another list from 10 years ago from CMU for their bsc: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/academic/class/15418-s12/www/projectlist.html

[dull belfry]

anyone tried github student developer pack. what are the best offers i can get from it i see they removed canva pro and some other good stuff

the best stuff i see is hosting option from 3 platforms . free domains from 2 then copilot

i wish i had canva pro

[tepid marsh]

not a advertisement but thought it was funny

[digital whale]

what languages are you applying with?

[chrome cedar]

C, C++, Python, Rust, TS/JS, lots of Python frameworks, libraries, and the GPU related CUDA, CUDnn, and others

[digital whale]

you know all of them?

[chrome cedar]

Yes? I wouldn't put them on my resume if I didn't
Rust is my weakest one but I'm familiar enough with it
Oh I forgot Go

[digital whale]

so whats like the minimum you need to get a job at google

[chrome cedar]

Well Google was on my list but I hate their interviews which are glorified leetcode stuff. Algo design is fine but I've had interviews there in 6 years and it's always been some impractical nonsense

My team manages the automation for patching windows servers within AWS, specifically internal ones

Windows is (rightfully) treated as a lower class because of the much lower market share. Windows is also a pain to manage by comparison

There is a lot of tech debt in my team because people were using large PowerShell scripts (cause Windows) for tasks we run that need high performance

Every time I go to make a feature or something, management (upper and lower) come in with something they say is higher priority, derailing things - and then they ask why I haven't finished any new features (and this has been going on for about a year)

New manager is also a massive deal breaker. They're an extreme micro-manager who doesn't care about the team and only cares about the bottom line / making herself look good

The new manager was the original reason I started updating my resume but then the 5 day RTO announcement happened and that was the nail in the coffin for me

[fringe sphinx]

Eh, the 5 day RTO is just a layoff, without having to pay for it.

[chrome cedar]

Yep I'm aware

My micro conspiracy theory is they're doing it around US election inauguration time so they can hide behind that in the news

[fringe sphinx]

Were you fully remote, or 3 in?

[chrome cedar]

3 days in
I was hired as fully remote in 2022 and had to do 3 days in starting May 2023

[fringe sphinx]

One of the impractical things, imo, is where Amazon's put many of its satellite engineering offices. New York, Boston, etc. I wouldn't want to commute to any of those offices

(I'm referring to location in the city, not merely the city)

That's just over generalizing.

[chrome cedar]

I was at least fortunate that the office I was assigned to was in NYC so commuting by public transit works out
But also I wasn't hired to commute anyways lol

There's supposed to be a mix of engineers and management making decisions. It used to be that was for a bit

Then slowly management has become overbearing in their decisions

Anyways, that's why I'm looking at fully remote positions at places that still allow them

[fringe sphinx]

Eh, you're young (I assume). Once kids/etc, that commute is brutal from most family friendly neighborhoods (ie: NJ) unless you compromise and live in Brooklyn or something

[fringe sphinx]

Fully remote seems to be really hard right now, I don't know data, just know that many companies are RTOing... but trying to find balance

I'm assuming 'young and without kids': your radius and tolerance for a commute is higher than post kids

Or, better yet, "haven't bought a house in the suburbs yet"

[chrome cedar]

I forgot to mention, just after the new manager joined I missed RTO for 2 consecutive weeks: one I was sick with covid, the other I was taking care of my dog that I can't leave alone and had scheduling issues with my fiance's job so I had to be at home

I got reprimanded for it by the new manager, and when I was honest about why I missed RTO those weeks, I was told "taking care of your dog is not a valid excuse"

I have a very nice skip manager who understood my situation but even they have no power here, this RTO stuff is handled like 3 levels above them

[fringe sphinx]

"The efficient bureaucracy is the greatest threat to liberty."

[chrome cedar]

Yes. I worked from home both weeks, even when I had covid (symptoms but tested positive so I didn't want to give it to others in the office)

[fringe sphinx]

That's not why companies are RTOing

Or the reason is pretty obvious.

[chrome cedar]

It's to get people to either quit, or "voluntarily resign" by not following RTO

[fringe sphinx]

It's not a big mystery. Companies believe in office workers are more productive/loyal/retainable: a better use of company $$. And, some RTOs are implemented to achieve workforce reductions (layoffs) without having to pay for it (separations)

[true harness]

and pay less taxes

[fringe sphinx]

What taxes?

[near ocean]

Its a soft lay off, thats all

Yes

[chrome cedar]

I heard some stuff like they get tax breaks from cities / states for having people go to physical offices in those locations

Not sure how they track that for reporting or why they simply don't lie (cause how can you prove that from a city / state's end?)

[true harness]

if you need to badge in to get into the building, that's very easy to track

[fringe sphinx]

Reminds me of my friend at 'big bank': he said they run predictive models on your badge and computer usage and phone usage to predict retention (who's about to quit)

[near ocean]

ah yes, an efficient use of peoples times and salary

[jolly ether]

I would like to do AI, do you guys have a skill set map that I can follow, I heard you need to learn python first, but what comes after that?

[peak halo]

an AI-related degree is virtually a requirement. are you pursuing one?

[fringe sphinx]

My "lazy" answer is: look at kaggle.com/learn.

[jolly ether]

I'm going to college for it

[peak halo]

what AI courses will you take? what math courses will you take?

[jolly ether]

I don't understand I thought it was depended on what the degree is for?

[peak halo]

what country are you in?

[jolly ether]

Morroco but I plan to study in Canada

[peak halo]

I see. "college" and "course" mean different things in US English than what you probably have in mind.

@jolly ether there are pinned resources in #data-science-and-ml

[mint merlin]

is programming a good career in Asia? specifically Indonesia

cause i want to be in the army but im not sure if it'll work out and im trying to see if programming is for me

[fringe sphinx]

That's a very interesting comparison; army vs software engineering?

[peak halo]

do you want to enlist in the army, or be an officer?

[mint merlin]

army

[fleet iris]

is there programming post in army

[peak halo]

yes, I'm asking if you want to be an enlisted member of the army, or an officer in the army.

[mint merlin]

an enlisted member

[peak halo]

okay. that's not really a career, so this sounds like an apples-to-oranges comparison.

[mint merlin]

is it? it kinda is in here

sorry if my question is ridiculous. im still a teenager but i want to have a better understanding of my own future

[fringe sphinx]

Software engineering in most countries is well paid, professional work that requires significant education and preparation. Don't know indonesia specifically, but it's a very specific career path with good outcomes for ppl who prepare.

[peak halo]

I don't know if we have any Indonesians who know more about the specifics, unfortunately.

[mint merlin]

so i should prepare everything? like should i learn about programming right now so i could prepare?

[peak halo]

(the server generally doesn't have very many adults in Asia.)

[fringe sphinx]

(general advice, not specific to your country): learning programming is a good idea, it doesn't take much to learn a little... you don't have to become an expert. Maybe read about the tech industry, the history of computing & programming, and expand your knowledge of math (math is fun outside the classroom). Pick something you know nothing about and learn a little about it, repeat.

Also, talk to people who are in your country about their education & work experience: family, friends, friends of friends, etc.

[mint merlin]

ive been learning programming on my free time on sololearn. currently on the functions part

[mint merlin]

ok, I'll try. thanks for the advice

[fringe sphinx]

If you get stuck, as for help in #python-discussion

[mint merlin]

ok, i'll keep that in mind

[calm ibex]

No

[peak halo]

Uh, why?

always ask your actual question. if you want to attach conditions, you can attach them to your actual question.

that's not your actual question. you have some other question that you only want those with >3 years of experience to answer. please ask your actual question.

The way you're engaging in this channel wastes peoples time. Please ask your question in the form "I want to know ... I'm only interested in answers from those who are over 25 and who have >3 years of swd experience."

@vapid jay you are welcome to ask your question, and to ask those who answer it to qualify themselves. But please do not ask people to qualify themselves before you ask your actual question. People don't want to wait to find out if your actual question is something they think they can effectively answer.

[obtuse ridge]

wsup pals, out of context question a lil, how long did it take you to work at a job non related to programming before you actually qualified yourself enough to be hired as swe and what kind of job did you work before that?

might be the second time im posting this yet the last time only 1 person gave me a talk ab his experience

[fringe sphinx]

Assuming you're asking about non CS graduates?

[obtuse ridge]

both

[covert bronze]

ive never worked a non-programming related job

[obtuse ridge]

i dont think ones with a graduation in CS have significantly more success in finding a job

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? CS graduates tend to go directly into SWE jobs. That's where we hire from.

[obtuse ridge]

from my experience some students dont really go in depth on some frameworks in the uni and after graduation still need to lift up their knowledge

[true harness]

there are surveys of employed software developers that show that most devs have some sort of higher education

[covert bronze]

huh? you learn that stuff on the job

[obtuse ridge]

and in the meanwhile theyre working a non-related job, thats how i am rn

[obtuse ridge]

ye but you still have to pass the bar

[true harness]

right. uni isn't for learning the modern, latest stuff. students can learn that on their own perfectly fine, so they can get a job secured before graduating

[obtuse ridge]

yeh so the question remains open on how long it guys took you to work a non related job or do nothing before getting hired after the graduation

[covert bronze]

my first job took me three months outta college, but that was back in 2011.

[true harness]

the typical experience is that uni students have a job lined up before graduating

[obtuse ridge]

alrite mane youre the senior programming veteran

[obtuse ridge]

Oh well......

[fringe sphinx]

I landed a job directly after graduation (I took a detour in college, tho), and most of the engineers I work with did the same. We hire CS grads for entry positions and haven't considered non grads in many years

[covert bronze]

i think ive only worked with one bootcamp grad in my entire career

[fringe sphinx]

But, if you were asking about non grad paths, there are many ppl on this server who've been successful.

[obtuse ridge]

well damn it does sound like its a lil bit easier in the us

[covert bronze]

btw im autistic, which means my communication skills were just downright awful. now they're only poor. haha

[leaden brook]

Hey guys there is this placement I found which I really wanna apply for. I have my CV and am gonna write my cover letter today. I just have one small issue.... I really wanted to do a particular certification before applying but idk if this opportunity will be filled in by other candidates quickly hence why I am stuck. Any advise guys?

[fringe sphinx]

Just to be clear: my point simply is- if you don't get a degree, expect to work a few years in an adjacent role to build up your resume and xp

[fringe sphinx]

Your options are: apply or don't apply? How is this a question?

Seems like there's only one sane choice.

[covert bronze]

speaking of jobs, i just got a new job after being laid off two months ago.

[leaden brook]

The deadline to apply is quite far but adviors tell me that the roles get filled in quickly. I was thinking of doing certification exam then applying bit idk if that is worth doing.

[fringe sphinx]

I would apply.

[leaden brook]

Ok. Thanks for your advise.

[obtuse ridge]

cool what role

[covert bronze]

mid/sr level role

[dapper bane]

I worked on the weekends on this game and it isnt what I want it to be I dont know if i should work further on this I wanted to make a game for the playstore something that could get a lot of downloads if not money but all that work went down the drain https://saintelgrandosmokio.itch.io/puzzlegame

I dont feel good

[near ocean]

You keep asking about games but i dont think these itch.io games are really that valuable

[dapper bane]

it took a lot of effort to make it 🥲

[loud iris]

Hi, thanks for feedback. here is my updated resume. Do you think it looks better? Any other suggestions/nitpicks?

Or is it vague/confusing still (some ppl have said that)

Removed the job descriptions which were the 1st bullets in each role. Split the 2nd bulletpoint into 2 diferent ones (the highlighted bullets)

[dapper bane]

hey I sacrificed multipled weekends . I dont know if I can even show it in an interview

[near ocean]

A project taking long doesn't mean its any good

[dapper bane]

🥲

[near ocean]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fringe sphinx]

We explained in pydis. Your post has been deleted

[faint depot]

For those of you who are from the UK, which companies provide either a level 4 apprenticeship in software development or a degree apprenticeship in SWE/digital it & solutions?

[digital whale]

do programming interviews and jobs like a software engineer need you to have experience with modules, or is it just algorithms from scratch

[fast fossil]

how are you going to build anything if all you know is how to implement algorithms? you need experience building stuff, usually to build said stuff, you may want to get some help from existing solutions/frameworks/libraries because implementing all that from the scratch when the goal is to make something using that, is a waste of time, unless you really want to learn about the ins and outs of how it works, so, you'd want to have some experience with some libraries and such. The easiest way to get said experience is to build projects.

[digital whale]

i mean like in interviews, would they be asking you questions that require libraries

[peak halo]

you're specifically asking about live coding questions? because that doesn't go without saying.

[near ocean]

https://www.ratemyapprenticeship.co.uk/search-jobs/degree-apprenticeship/all-roles/london?s=Technology
Many more if you look it up

[fringe sphinx]

In a live interview, I wouldn't ask someone to use a specific library... but if they have it listed on their resume, I'd ask them about it. * I ask about Pandas when I see it on someone's resume, and very rarely do I get a good answer.

[fast fossil]

what kind of a question do you ask exactly and what's the answer you usually get? what would be a good answer?

[fringe sphinx]

There's different types. We ask something akin to a fizz buzz: goal is just hard enough where they don't have a memorized answer.

You learn a lot from seeing someone work through a not so difficult problem.

Often a few questions relating to resume, this is usually disappointing (people often are unprepared to talk about their resume)

And, for good candidates, some open ended question... something that doesn't really have a right or wrong answer

Altho, for an entry candidate, it might also be some basic coding questions... like just seeing if they understand variable assignment (sadly, many CS grads struggle here)

[fast fossil]

that's surprising

[fast fossil]

I suppose no open ended question about a specific library/framework though? But if so, what would be an example of an open ended question regarding pandas, for example?

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, if someone says they know pandas, I'll ask questions about series and data types and stuff like that, or how to transform the data in certain ways, to gauge if they -know- it or just have met it briefly

[fringe sphinx]

The real goal is to find out if they know -anything- well. Many entry candidates don't, they just are familiar with many things (this is ok), but sometimes people have good depth in something specific and this is a great hiring signal.

[fast fossil]

I see, thanks!

[vapid jay]

Hey

I stat learning

2 days ago any advice?

[fringe sphinx]

Don't stop?

[quartz flare]

I'm dipping my toe into the world of coding and learning python. I have access to a local uni with online classes for a BS in CS. Is it worth pursuing that? Mind you, it'll probably be slow-going since I work full time

[peak halo]

Hello, please ask the question about Meta U that you want one of its students to answer.

Why did you delete your message

[harsh river]

scared em

[vital wyvern]

<@&831776746206265384> nudity

[vapid jay]

<@&831776746206265384> I've been a baaaad boy

[tender thicket]

!mute 906645939949813812

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @vapid jay until <t:1728257524:f> (1 hour).

[trim crypt]

Skill recognizes skill. I as a Bruneian who once joined an Asian Cyber Capture the Flag competition, Indonesians have really good hackers, close to Vietnam. So I'm sure you can a get a career in your nation's cyber security at least.

[wanton birch]

Is an education in Computer Science worth anything to you? Then yes, otherwise no. If you consider a future career in tech fields, having a degree will tick at least one box towards fulfilling the requirements.

[quartz flare]

Well I'm already in the IT field, but I do not have a degree of any kind. That piece of paper does open me up to a lot more job opportunities and higher pay. I'm more curious on whether is makes a career in coding any better

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> scam

[pine sleet]

Hello, your message was deleted as it appears to be a common fiverr account scam

[bleak remnant]

hidden dev :0

[rancid rune]

Hi , I wanna be a full stack web developer. (would focus more on backend development)
technology i choose is Django
so for the frotend i have learnt Html, css and plain JS, for the Javascript framework, which one would be easier and quickest to learn and to use it in my projects?

[green mulch]

Guys, i want to mastering Python, but i don't know where to start and i'm so busy with my homework

[quartz flare]

Thanks. I'll consider taking classes online toward a BS. If I can afford it, it can't hurt to have one.

[rancid rune]

first, master the fundamentals and OOP concepts. solve more and more problems on a daily basis, then solve a bigger problem with a scenerio.
sources: you can ask gemini, chatgpt for the problem-solving questions and for the scenerios, and also look at leetcode, hacker rank and stuff

[desert wedge]

hi can i get a code on python to make a simple project of tutle

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Folks here will be more than happy to help you and get you to learn more about python, but no one is going to give you any code

[fleet iris]

hey so i think having 2 languages in resume for positions like web development (python,javascript) is generally ok? i mean will i get advantage if i make other software development projects like maybe app development with languages like java kotlin give me advantage for web developer roles applications so that i can add stuff like java and kotlin to my resume too and that project. (i am looking to apply for web dev roles still not experienced i am still making and learning from my dummy websites)

[azure canopy]

make sure to include HTML and CSS for good measure
being more specific about the frameworks you used (e.g. flask, django) will help too

[fleet iris]

yea but i was worried like there are like tons of applicants who like completed maybe bootcamps on web dev with these 5 tech so i might get ignored so having something extra would help me i don't know i haven't applied for anythig yet

does having other projects than web dev actually help me standout

[azure canopy]

If anything that's even more reason to include it because not having it will make you stand out as the applicant that doesn't have tech which most other applicants have
Also, it's not just about what tech you've used but what you did with it and that's another way to stand out
Keep in mind the specific position you're applying for as well: make sure to address all the tech which they want you to know and avoid things irrelevant to the job

[fleet iris]

ok then i think for the web development postion only web development tech matters.

maybe some related skills can also be learned

[buoyant seal]

web development can be common at least in Java, Kotlin, Golang, Python, PHP, Ruby, Javascript/Typescript.
So yes, do add java/kotlin if u can. 😉
Java/Kotlin is pretty common popular backend building language for high quality.
Python and Javascript is common for messy "prototyping". With JS taking a special role in being the only supported for client side at browser in mature way
It tells a lot if u can build in high quality and not only in low quality.
For building in any language in this high quality u need to get hang of Unit testing and code architecture though, otherwise in any language it will be very messy not quality

[dapper bane]

does every1 have very tight deadlines and toxic bosses at ur job ?

[near ocean]

Nope

[buoyant seal]

Nope. Completely. They are so nice, that all the time my conscience majorly is my the only voice for deadlines.
I feel guilty very much each time when i don't give sufficient performance

[near ocean]

What kind of projects do you work on that have tight deadlines?

At my job we have periodic releases that dont make sense but we are still given (or i guess we argue for) smaller workloads, a few features and bug fixes, its pretty relaxed

[white relic]

Tight deadlines happen sometimes. Toxicity isn't something I put up with.

[buoyant seal]

Also i had technically quite toxic boss at first job, but i noticed him being toxic only to other workers.
Charisma/showing how you do your work goes very nice to be valued as worker.
It is your own responsibility to show off your work progress in order to become appreciated (This needs to be done in a very smooth way in order to be not noticable that u do it, usually it just means more communicating/reporting regarding stuff, pretty much doing that a good dev needs to do in any case)
Somewhere from https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Coder-Conduct-Professional-Programmers/dp/0137081073 book i probably read all the recommendations regarding behavior

[fringe sphinx]

There are fewer and fewer pure 'web development' jobs where all you need to know is react and CSS. Web devs are expected to know a bit more, (nevermind including engineering skills)

[trim crypt]

#python-discussion message @fleet iris

SysAdmins are System Administrators. We take care of systems and make sure that they are always running. Whether we fix bugs or fix configurations or do patch updates/upgrades, we have to make sure the system stays usable for the users.

[dapper bane]

we have very tight deadlines I have to integrate multiple complex apis in just 2 days

sometimes make graphs libraries from scratch

[near ocean]

that sounds entirely unreasonable
what happens in 2 days

[dapper bane]

These things happen man I was powerless

[white relic]

Powerlessness can be institutional but it can also be learned.
If you're being assigned unreasonable deadlines, you should be asking questions

As a person who relies on my paycheck, it's important to me that the company I work for can afford to pay me while fulfilling its obligations to clients

sudden tight deadlines and lack of transparency are causes for concern

[hollow meadow]

Hï

[near ocean]

If its not critical infrastructure then there shouldnt be tight deadlines, its a sign of mismanagement by either you the developer or most likely your managers

[near ocean]

Is this a serious question?

Glassdoor lists google salaries in that range for senior software engineers
First step is getting into Google

[celest ice]

can I post a picture here and maybe some one with much knowledge can help me with it

so what you think of this ?

[white relic]

let's start with the title and what to do with "Faculty of"
Faculty of the Materials map of the department of software engineering?
Materials map of the faculty of the department of software engineering?
Materials map of the department of the faculty of software engineering?
or does "faculty of" go with the subtitle?

is this also a translator glitch

[celest ice]

it is in arabic , I translated it with google

[white relic]

what questions do you have about this image?

[celest ice]

software enginering roadmap

[white relic]

it looks like a dependency graph of course prerequisites

[celest ice]

so what is the ITSE thing ?

[celest ice]

?

[white relic]

I'm unfamiliar with the university but in the US, courses often have subject codes and numbers formatted like that. ENGL 4013 or CS 202 or whatnot. I assume that's what's being represented here

[celest ice]

and is it good or some old useless bullsh!t ?
I am so scepticle about it

[celest ice]

oh , I thought it is sth international

[true harness]

it shows what courses are needed to take a given course

[celest ice]

how exactly ?

[true harness]

the arrows

[celest ice]

it is like roadmap I think

[white relic]

for instance, it looks like you can't take ITSE302 until you have already passed ITGS301

[celest ice]

I will take the game devolopment section , it doesn't seem like BIG thing

[white relic]

I wouldn't take it as a general software engineering roadmap

it looks like something only valuable to people following that course of study at that university

[celest ice]

?

[dapper bane]

Do u guys think I can get into an MNC with projects I am not much of a data structure person

although I do it

[celest ice]

you know ... sometimes I understand english good and smoothly , sometime I struggle

[dapper bane]

me too

[celest ice]

ok how can I know if it is good or bullshit ?

but it seems good , it is probably the biggest university in libya

and what is the difference between basic subjects and general information ?

and what optinal subjects should I take besides game thing ?

[white relic]

are you enrolled at the university of Tripoli?

do you want to go there?

[celest ice]

no answer , I don't want it but ... it seems it is where I'm going

but why you ask ? if you don't mind

[white relic]

this shows you what classes you need to have taken before you can take other classes

that's all.

it's not a roadmap of stuff you need to learn to be a software engineer

[celest ice]

ok.
it seems the education there is good

[white relic]

I'm sure it is

[celest ice]

thank you

the 20 seconds timer is killing me

[astral ermine]

In this job market, would it make sense to leave a current full time for a 12mo contract for a $20k-$30k increase?
With how tough the market has been, I'm leaning towards no because of the lack of security but I'd like to get others opinion

[celest ice]

??

[white relic]

yeah honestly I feel the slowmode timer should cut down when there are more than 1 person chatting

[celest ice]

like 4 or 5 seconds are good

[white relic]

I wouldn't, but I like my current job and I'm not desperate for the money.
it's going to be a highly personal decision and you definitely need to weigh the risk carefully

[true harness]

would you be a contractor or an actual employee? as a contractor you will need to handle your own taxes, equipment, etc, as well as miss out on benefits

[astral ermine]

Contractor, no benefits

[white relic]

also an excellent point. that $30k may well be a pay cut if it just means you have to pay your own income tax and benefits instead of having it handled by your employer

that kind of thing varies a lot by location

[astral ermine]

Right, I lose out on 401k and HSA contribution matching

[true harness]

is that factored into the 20-30k?

[white relic]

so you're in the USA, that means you need to look carefully at the tax implications of being (presumably) self-employed

and of course you need to spend some of your time during those 12 months lining up work for when they are over

all this being why contractors get paid more than employees in a raw numbers sense

[fringe sphinx]

The tax implications are significant.... altho, you also get a few advantages.

[near ocean]

Is there really job safety in the US? You dont get guarantees you wont be fired tomorrow in your permanent job

[fringe sphinx]

Contractors are often the first to go tho before layoffs, and it's easier to terminate them, so contracting is certainly more 'risky' than FTE

(Agree with your overall point tho)

[white relic]

There are no guarantees that your entire employer won't be washed away in a storm like happened to many people in Appalachia a few weeks ago.
But there are degrees of risk.

[fringe sphinx]

Speaking of, hope the storm is missing you.

[white relic]

I avoided the worst of Helene, but in Milton's path now.
It'll probably be fine where I am.

I know someone with a beach house that looks to get hit a second time. 😬

[proven atlas]

milton is meat riding

[plush summit]

Seems like you guys need better dijken

[fringe sphinx]

?

[near ocean]

everyone's house is a beach house now

[fringe sphinx]

Lex luthors plan finally is paying off, just wrong coast.

[digital whale]

just read that its really hard to get a job as a SWE as the field is oversaturated

[desert moth]

how have you understood it?

[digital whale]

wdym

[desert moth]

what makes you think that is field is oversaturated?

[digital whale]

read it online from another SWE

[white relic]

It's true-ish, but sensationalized.
It's harder now than it has been sometimes in the past, but people with skills are still finding jobs.

[near ocean]

It is harder to get a job now but i don't think it's because of saturation

[white relic]

there are a lot of economic factors at play.

[plush summit]

Is it Just me or does it feel very easy to get a high paying job after uni cs but let s say Jobs around cs (not helping install apps cleanup etc) are hard to get before internships

[white relic]

it's harder to get a job when you have no training or relevant experience

idk if I would ever say "very easy"

[near ocean]

Humblebrag?

[plush summit]

I mean i got 2 years in uni but it is hard to get a job for let s say 1 day or so

[fringe sphinx]

The job market is not a static thing. It reflects many macro-economic factors. Every year is different, etc. I've seen many "tight" markets where it's harder to land a job, etc. Our usual advice is: maximize your outcomes with a degree + networking + practice / broad learning.

The one true thing is that software engineering is a well paid field (plus, for a variety of reasons: not every CS grad will stay in SWE for their career)

[desert moth]

does it work for all SWE positions or merely python?

[flint harness]

absolute nerd (but ye, it's true)

[fringe sphinx]

Thank you

[limpid zodiac]

I'm trying to find the general chat

[flint harness]

I'm trying to find a job

[fringe sphinx]

General Python is #python-discussion , or you want off-topic:

!topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[limpid zodiac]

Tysm

[flint harness]

Why don't CS grads stay in a SWE positions?

[plush summit]

?

[fringe sphinx]

Some never even start as a SWE. Others move into other types of jobs, like project management or customer-facing roles. I know one person with a CS masters who ended up becoming a CFA (financial advisor)

[flint harness]

Oh damn, I'm cooked aren't I. CS grad in politics wen?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm only guessing, but: some people go into a major not knowing what they like. I started as a EE and hated it.

[plush summit]

What is ee?

[tranquil flower]

hi there, im no where near going to university but was wondering, what would be good alevels to go with computer science for uuniveristy

[fringe sphinx]

electrical engineering

[tranquil flower]

?

[flint harness]

However, I'm trying to find ways to expand my horizon and find our how I can grow as a SWE

[flint harness]

A-levels: CS, Math, Further Math. Or just be a normal kid.

[tranquil flower]

what about physics

[terse oyster]

Hello everyone, my name is Zach I’ve never really talked in this discord but was hoping to look for some advice/guidance on how I get my career out of the gutter. I’ve worked at the Houston Health Department since I was 17 doing data entry and I use python and SQL for my job and been doing it for the past 4-5 years however I can’t get a higher position than a CSRI. I do data analysis work but as a CSRI any tips on how I can get unstuck? Thanks in advance

[tranquil flower]

idk much about further math but can u do it without doing normal mathj

[flint harness]

Go for it man, this is like asking "should I add salt when cooking?". It is a very ambigious question, in a very broad and in-depth world.

[fringe sphinx]

What's a CSRI?

[terse oyster]

Customer Service representative I

[fringe sphinx]

Sounds like you're in a pretty good starting point. Do you have a degree?

[tranquil flower]

can u read my replay pleas

[floral flicker]

Is it a good choice going on OpenCV on Python and mix with AI?

[terse oyster]

No and I believe that’s what’s holding my career back but college doesn’t interest me. I’ve tried it and it was a bother simply because I see college as somewhere to learn how to learn and they don’t teach you squat

[flint harness]

Care to give us more context and reasoning? This is a big decision chain.

[terse oyster]

I’ve been trying to avoid school and find other loopholes around it.

[flint harness]

Can't escape school my guy

[zenith torrent]

did python 3.13 finally add curly brackets instead of indentations?

[flint harness]

Tried it, didn't work, had to go through it.