career-advice

[olive orchid]

anyone here who majored or is majoring in business analytics? what career/intern options have u received or are pursuing atm?

[tepid idol]

Awesome! Because I'm currently in Engineering Science studying (ME) and the program covers for (CS) and etc. And I do love computer systems and programming so I'm in the stage where I can switch to (CS) and I'm probably going for it after I gain enough info about it.

Do you think Coding boot camps are worth doing?

[peak halo]

No.

Computer science--the concept--predates software and software systems, and ultimately isn't about creating and maintaining software systems.

The idea that "computer science degrees are the credential for software engineers" is a bit of a historical accident. Some universities have software engineering as a degree instead of or in addition to CS. But these will have different accreditation standards.

[tepid idol]

oh, make sense. Because I see a lot of people who claim to be "software engineers" but they have a CS degree. So I assumed that CS is the same thing as SE

[peak halo]

if they are employed to create and maintain software engineers, then their saying that they're "software engineers" is a statement of fact, not merely a claim.

[fringe sphinx]

Afaik, most SE programs are CS specializations: a few courses swapped rather than a completely different program.

(Haven't surveyed in depth, just from I saw looking at US Uni's over past year)

[tepid idol]

I guess my path is CS then

Thanks for the info and help

[digital fjord]

You should look at which courses are different between the two programs

[fringe sphinx]

And don't forget to look at the Uni and department core requirements... big differences in some schools

[tepid idol]

Absolutely I’ll take a look at it

Thanks again

[neat egret]

How thorough are background checks for regular software jobs

Will they ask for past names

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

[neat egret]

US

[fringe sphinx]

ime, there's two separate types of check: references and criminal history

[neat egret]

I have very defamatory articles written about me and a very unique name. No charges no conviction

[fringe sphinx]

a "background check" is usually the criminal database search done by a third party (you'll usually sign a waiver), a reference check is checking past employers

And, a hiring manager might still google your name.

[valid flint]

It really depends on where your'e applying

[neat egret]

Google isn't even as bad as bing for me

[neat egret]

Yeah by "regular" software job I mean not some high security office lol

Just wanna get out of college

[valid flint]

Hmm

[fringe sphinx]

A while back, some computer "hacker" with my exact name got busted for some shady stuff. It's only come up directly twice, but curious how many times other people have hit it.

[fringe sphinx]

Good thing nobody uses bing 🙂

[neat egret]

Its actually so unique I'd have to change my last name as well since just the first being changed still brings up the articles (only on bing though)

[fringe sphinx]

I wonder if you can seed other nonsense articles and sour the search result. Reverse SEO.

Reddit posts, etc.

[neat egret]

Hilarious solution, probably not practical

[fringe sphinx]

Why not?

I'm out of my expertise certainly here, but if your name is so rare that search brings up a single negative article, then make your name less rare. Might take some time.

[vital wyvern]

[fringe sphinx]

I forgot about this actually, it came up in a TSA interview in fact, getting my global entry or something like that.

[neat egret]

I have gotten multiple jobs since the articles came out, but idk if a real deal software job that requires a bachelors degree will have the same level of lax background check as the other jobs I've gotten since, which is 1. as a political canvasser 2. as a sales lead getter for sunrun solar

[vital wyvern]

This is very entertaining. I had some shenanigans happen during my security clearance interview in a similar vein, where someone in my hometown had originally claimed to be me after committing a crime (obviously they were ID'd and they were not, in fact, me) Never found out why that happened, but it came up in my TS interview, presumably because someone mentioned it in the interviews they conduct. 😅

[neat egret]

Me making shitposts on reddit isn't really the same as actual reputable news agencies publishing allegations that were being taken seriously at the time

[fringe sphinx]

Just being devils advocate here, but reddit does rank pretty damn high on search results.

[vital wyvern]

I try to keep aliases separate. If I'm shitposting or doing... things that I wouldn't want an employer to know about, then I just use different accounts/aliases/emails/etc.

[karmic blaze]

hello

[vital wyvern]

Likewise, my Facebook and whatnot is private. No employer needs to see that, and they don't really care. Go read my blog, LinkedIn, etc., things deliberately designed to be public and easily enumerable based on my name.

[karmic blaze]

i arrived here , PyPI and Pip are the most common contenders but here are some other options available as well , so should i go through all of theme , or just pyPI and pip ?

[neat egret]

Probably gonna change my name I just hope the background check doesn't ask about previous names

[fringe sphinx]

This is #career-advice . You probably want #python-discussion

[fringe sphinx]

Of course it will.

Previous names and addresses.

[karmic blaze]

thats because i cant send a photo sorry

[fringe sphinx]

#❓｜how-to-get-help You can open a help thread, or post it in off-topic.

[vital wyvern]

You can describe this without an image utilizing your words 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Or ask in #packaging-and-distribution

[karmic blaze]

its not a big thing , doent worth a thread xd .

[neat egret]

Maybe if its just a binary pass/fail that relies on criminal history it'll pass and the hiring manager won't be alerted

[karmic blaze]

with an image can be more clearly . i'm to lazy to write

[vital wyvern]

I'd probably be prepared to explain anything that comes up anyway. "I wasn't charged or convicted," isn't... exactly an explanation.

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, well, just respect the channel topic.

[karmic blaze]

i didnt get any answer here , thanks for your notes .

[fringe sphinx]

The criminal search would be a pass/fail type thing... well, no, sorry... more like a "pass (nothing found)" or "flagged for review".

[valid flint]

Once you've got fake identities your good.

[neat egret]

Would ideally avoid the conversation if I could lol.. but yeah obviously might have to be ready for that. Never came up in my sunrun hiring but they didnt even drug test so probably comparatively lax

In the EU they have a "right to be forgotten" in the GDPR where you can ask search engines to de index you (if the results are not related to serious crimes). But I'm not in the EU

[vital wyvern]

I mean just control the narrative, try to ensure that the most publicly enumerable links are those that you want people to see. Personal blogs, work appropriate social media, etc.

I, for instance, choose to be associated with an antiseptic ointment.

[neat egret]

Yeah suppression is a good tactic

[fringe sphinx]

Have you looked into requesting the media outlets to remove or de-index the context? If it's old, if nothing criminal came of it, etc, might be something worth pursuing.

If it's really bad, and you were a minor, especially so.

[neat egret]

Yes, I've contacted one outlet today, they'll get back to me. It's pretty much at their discretion though

[fringe sphinx]

(but I am not a lawyer, but you should talk to a lawyer)

[neat egret]

There's like 10 sources I'd have to make that request with, as well as some twitter journalists. I'm talking to a lawyer tomorrow

[vital wyvern]

Ah yes, media outlets and twitter threads with your name in them.
Perhaps consulting a lawyer is really your only recourse.

[quaint fulcrum]

My organisation has EAP and I wanna use this to learn or better my python skills. What are some courses that I should enroll in?

[fleet reef]

Early Access Program?

[quaint fulcrum]

Employe Assistance Program

[vapid jay]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[harsh river]

<@&831776746206265384>

[sand patio]

!warn 505878029617201170 that's not appropriate for this channel, please don't shitpost here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @sleek kayak.

[slender copper]

Alright thank you

[keen karma]

Guys i need an python project idea

Requirement

Minimum 3 module
Industry preference (os, ai, computer networking )

Basic mini project

[rocky fulcrum]

ah ok. do you know anything that would be good for pre-16s in the UK?

okay that makes more sense. thank you

[fast fossil]

dam, there's someone else named BillyBobby? that's crazy

[fast fossil]

You might want to ask in #python-discussion for that, this doesn't quite appear to be on topic for this channel

[vapid jay]

Can I be a good Dev with elementary school Math? I stopped learning when I was 12, should I find a Math course?

[buoyant seal]

Yes but with complications.
Technically devs need little math outside of Data science field.
Some more intensive math sometimes is needed though, like vectors and matrix calculations for 2D and 3D graphics, or physics stuff for game things

The biggest complication here, the path of least resistance is going through university to get degree...
...It is very common for CS/SE degree having 50 shades of higher maths inside them
So u would have to... do math in order to pass it :]

[vapid jay]

I do like 2D games.. but im already 25 and learning math would take years unfortunately

[white relic]

Do you have a degree in some other field?

[vapid jay]

Nope

[white relic]

I agree with Darkwind. "learning math" is not your most immediate problem. You can be a dev without a lot of math. But if you are trying to break in to the field without a degree or experience there are many obstacles you will have to overcome that are bigger than poor math skills

And the path of least resistance for most people is a BSCS which does involve math

so like... what's your career plan?

[rocky fulcrum]

is it worth it? does it pay off or is it just useless extra knowledge?

[buoyant seal]

It helped me to have complicated problems to solve with programming. A good amount of disciplines required that.
4 years of practice (6+ in my case) helped me to break my thinking many times and adapt to programming.

Math is more required for some more obscure job roles, but personally i rarely need math itself
And pursured university purely for programming disciplines. In them i shined and tried to give my 100-200% effort with receiving according scores
...For math subjects... i just...passed them

So having finished university u are highly likely going to posses sufficient hard/soft skills to be a junior
When u are forced to do that for that many years, u would learn it after all.
It takes willingness to accept learning though, as i preferd to accept only programming disciplines
And thus i received fundamental memorized knowledge only in them 😉

Plus having finished uni u are going to have Diploma thing that will help easier getting first job too

[gritty rivet]

A CS degree? It's quickly becoming a necessity to even have a chance in this market

[buoyant seal]

my only little regret that i did not start self studies during university, and started them only after graduation 😅

[buoyant seal]

it is very commonly the difference between uni graduates
and online source people is devastatingly different. like by order of magnitude 10
Just in everything.. tech knowledge and soft skills to solve problems

if u are uni graduate... it is not impossible to reach middle level qualifications within span of 1-2 years (or at least if 3-5 years if very slowpoke)
if u are not... people can be often stuck in low qualifications for a very long time (read even entire career), as they only go through stuff uni people learned at some 1-2nd year of their studies at far later points of time (if ever bothering)

[gentle frigate]

my vscode terminal is not working can anyone help??
showing this error 1\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps\Microsoft.PowerShell_8wekyb3d8bbwe\pwsh.exe" terminated with exit code: -2146232797

and PowerShell is also crashing

[tribal raft]

Hello I am living in india,
I want to pursue MS in the USA,
I will start applying this December,and will hopefully get boarded in next September,
Until then should I do a job or do multiple internships??

[white relic]

This channel is for career discussion. Maybe try #editors-ides or create a help thread #❓｜how-to-get-help

[gritty rivet]

I think the answer to your question mostly depends on whether you're still a student or you've finished your Bachelor's already

[tribal raft]

I have finished my bachelor's

[gritty rivet]

So then unless things work very differently in India, you're unlikely to be considered for internships.

I would probably focus on looking for full-time contract positions, but I wouldn't rule out permanent jobs

[peak halo]

that's around 7k USD a month. how much experience do you have?

[forest basin]

@vapid jay damn your experienced

That's also awesome

Can you help me in a problem with attr @vapid jay

I created a simple discord bot and now I want to host it online 24/7 but it needs modules to run

[vapid jay]

Hello
Is leetcode required/necessary when applying for jobs?
I can code, build stuff, etc... but I never done leetcode before, did a question or two but that's it.
I put my projects in my github in my profile

[pine sleet]

This is not the right channel for this

[forest basin]

Can you dm me please

[pine sleet]

interviews often have leetcode-like questions but not necessary while applying

[vapid jay]

I dont know if i can post links: https://github.com/enforcer32

[vapid jay]

I could barely do leetcode questions bro, even the easy oens
that's my problem

[pine sleet]

a good part of leetcode is just knowing what algorithm to apply to what kind of problem

[vapid jay]

its hella boring. do you think you can get internships/junior/entry level jobs without that leecode bullshit?

[pine sleet]

yeah not all interviews have leetcode style questions

though I would argue there is at least some value in it

[white relic]

I tend to agree that leetcode is overused and the questions are mostly uninteresting, but the fact is that it is used, and it is some kind of (imperfect) proxy for knowledge of DSA, so if you're struggling with leetcodes, it is probably in your best interest to improve.

Some people get super into the gamified aspect and solving as many as fast as possible and whatnot. That isn't super valuable.

[crimson island]

tbf if you like leetcode just get into real competitive programming

[loud iris]

Can anyone please roast or nitpick my resume? Not getting any callbacks, ~100 apps. 3YOE full stack developer

* Projects not impactful or complex enough for 3YOE?

* Too bland/vague?

* Too flowery/inflated for simple tasks?

* Not enough metrics/numbers?

* Bulletpoints not specific enough?

* Not enough content/too much whitespace?

* Missing any keywords or experiences for full stack developers?

[fringe sphinx]

The padding is a little off... between title and first bullet bugs me.

[fringe sphinx]

For 3YOE, this is fairly good starting point. Would love to see a side project or two, something that shows you're interested

[loud iris]

Thanks, I was going back and forth whether to add a project because for 3YOE I thought hirinig managers and/or recruiters wont really care about it

[reef wolf]

Hey everyone I was wondering if i could get some advice. I am looking for as new job in tech (the start up I was working for just went under), the problem I'm having is that I know my stuff but don't know how to show that. I've been told that show casing projects on a website helps, but what kind of projects should I be showcasing?

[grizzled bane]

Hi

[grizzled kernel]

anyone has a project idea that would look very good in a resume?

[fringe sphinx]

It's not the project itself that's important, it's just that your resume is just 'I worked for 3 years'. Anything extra and recent (education, projects, volunteering, professional development, etc) would help you stand out.

[fast fossil]

ones you care about and are proud of making

and probably preferably something related to your specific field

[fringe sphinx]

You can share your anonymized resume here for review

Hard to give advice without more context

[reef wolf]

okay okay, I have a few personal projects to solve my own issues.
A big issue I have is that all of my projects are development/software and I am working towards the networking sector.

[reef wolf]

that is really good to know!

[eternal mist]

Hello all, So I am a first-year computer science student and recently started my first semester in University. I want to know What I can do at the moment to higher my chances in getting an internship by the end of my second year or junoir year

[fringe sphinx]

First off: take networking seriously. Clubs, professors, classmates, upper class, etc all are important people to get to know

[gritty rivet]

Mainly I would say just focus on getting good grades, but if you start looking into what kinds of internship opportunities are available in your area, you can strategize about what you might need to qualify.

[fringe sphinx]

You can also: read about the broader industry, learn more practical things (git, for instance, and https://missing.csail.mit.edu), and watch conference videos to see what else is going on in tech.

[thin hound]

one of my friends sent me this piece of code what is this im confused rn

he said it for creating a website

[final ravine]

It's probably off topic for this channel. You could create a #❓｜how-to-get-help

[cloud beacon]

Hi there. I'm looking for genuine advice from working professionals, hiring managers, and recruiters.

1. Is it a bad idea to put one's typing and keyboard skills on LinkedIn/Resume? What if the candidate is in the top 300-500 in the world? Will it matter?

2. What do I exactly write in my About section on LinkedIn that recruiters and managers want to see? I don't want to write my entire history there. Please guide me.

3. I am so tempted to mention my hobbies there as well because I don't see LinkedIn just as my job toolkit, but as an introduction to my personal brand as well. Should I mention hobbies like martial arts, running, etc there? I want them to feel connected with me.

[meager sun]

Hi Guys, I wondered if someone might be able to offer some insight. I am new to software engineering and development and have recently begun my journey on learning python through udemy. Is anyone able to advise what the best courses or resources are to progress into an area where i can be considered for junior roles? I have currently been working with servers and networking for 9+ years.

[analog sun]

Hello! We don't allow recruitment or advertising on the server

[buoyant seal]

Is it a bad idea to put one's typing and keyboard skills on LinkedIn/Resume? What if the candidate is in the top 300-500 in the world? Will it matter?
unless job role is Typing images to text, it will not matter 😉

What do I exactly write in my About section on LinkedIn that recruiters and managers want to see? I don't want to write my entire history there. Please guide me.
what is relevant towards job role u seek?

I am so tempted to mention my hobbies there as well because I don't see LinkedIn just as my job toolkit, but as an introduction to my personal brand as well. Should I mention hobbies like martial arts, running, etc there? I want them to feel connected with me.
may be. Like... may be it will impact positively. or it will work neutrally i think.
As long as it is not hobby affecting you in a bad way, like drinking a lot of alcohol i guess

[pine sleet]

for hobbies, i don't think it's necessarily bad to include a small blurb at the bottom, at best it may be something you and an interviewer can connect on, and worst they don't see it or don't really care

[gritty rivet]

Build on your experience, because that's gold. There are resources that are easy to find all about Python for network engineering, Python for system administration, etc. Adding those kind of automation projects to your resume will be more beneficial than more general stuff

[grand saffron]

is full stackdevelopper good

[peak halo]

"full stack" means "web developer who does front end and back end". It does not mean "developer who can do anything".

[grand saffron]

wow thanks for the information WICH i already know

[peak halo]

okay. perhaps you can elaborate on your question?

[grand saffron]

like as a job

[near ocean]

why wouldnt it be good

[peak halo]

it might seem obvious to you that that is what you were asking, but it is not.

[lapis quartz]

i have a quick question, if I know 2 languages and am learning a third is going to college worth it? is it necessary for work? Not trying to sound cocky at all just want to know the best path to break into the industry thank you.

[near ocean]

yes, university is the best way to break into the industry

[neon tree]

wouldn't necessarily agree.. have been coding software for a 3PL logistics, only bc i learned to code in my free time and there was an opening in IT after i started in the company. Never went to school for IT, and learn everything in my personal time

[lapis quartz]

can you explain more in depth your route and how you got accepted? Is the field as competitive as it's made out to seem online? It's like oh everyone in tech is getting laid off no tech jobs etc etc

[near ocean]

do you think everyone should skip school because it happened to work out for you?
getting a degree is the best way to work professionally as a software engineer

[neon tree]

i had worked in logistics for about 10 years. i had an interest in development and started teaching myself through online courses or documentation in the languages i was interested in. so agree that a good route is paying for education or professor's input (where college can be helpful). years went by, and started at a new company (still in logistics), and then proved and interviewed for an internal opening in IT and got the job based on knowledge

[neon tree]

absolutely not, just depends on personal situation really. Just wanted to voice my experience since it may not be the most common, yet is still an option to break into an IT role

[near ocean]

im not sure working in software adjacent roles for 10years is an option for most people

[sand patio]

getting a degree is generally understood to be the path of least resistance

[neon tree]

i would say there is mostly software adjacent roles in today's world really. everything is connected and all is online. there could be an opportunity around any corner

having a degree definitely helps though. even certifications as well. it's all about taking the initiative to learn

[lapis quartz]

Im just like man bummed i need to do gen-eds and stuff not for my career it feels like a waste of my time

that is the way it works right? ill need to do more science and history and math which im fine with and etc though random stuff not needed?

[near ocean]

you should do whatever you need to get into a college for a bachelors

[pine sleet]

what do you classify as “random stuff”

[lapis quartz]

stuff that wont help me in the future

[pine sleet]

how can you know it won’t help you

[fringe sphinx]

The geneds are there for a reason, and if you pick wisely, can be helpful. Some Uni's have very few geneds and more flexibility, too.

But, of a four year program, how many courses do you really think are useless? Have you looked at the curriculum requirements for CS programs? You'll also appreciate a few 'lighter' classes when taking your hard classss anyway.

[pine sleet]

gpa boost 👍

[valid flint]

bro

i feel like quitting coding

I'm doing a class. And this professor gives us an assignment which is 75% of our grade.

Guess what the assignment is? WE HAVE TO MAKE A 1 MINUTE ANIMATION USING TURTLE

HOW IS THAT GONNA HELP ME WITH ANY CAREER? Please enlighten me...

[fringe sphinx]

Do you know how to do it?

[valid flint]

somewhat

[near ocean]

having to learn something new is how its going to help

[valid flint]

but its so frustrating...

[fringe sphinx]

So, teacher assigns a problem that'll force you have to learn control flow in a programming language? Sounds like a good assignment.

[thick widget]

I'm thinking if i should redo my portfolio, what do u guys think is better, something like this: https://gmdiegolima.github.io/portfolio/
or something like this image

[fringe sphinx]

Beginner projects need to be easy because beginners.

[near ocean]

you could draw a cool curve for a minute, like the dragon curve

[fringe sphinx]

Or a Spirograph! (Nedbat has a cool project where)

[valid flint]

the thing is... i know how to use turtle i've been using it since i was 10. just dont get the point in doing an animation with turtle... like i highly doubt it'll help me in my future career path...

[near ocean]

not everything has to directly help you with your career lol, jeez

[fringe sphinx]

If you 'kinda' know how to do it, then you need to learn the things they're teaching.

Just like it's unlikely you'll need to write a sorting algorithm in a real job

[valid flint]

I know how to do it. I think I know enough. Just wondering how it will help... and its so boring...

[fringe sphinx]

You're in Uni?

[valid flint]

I can't think of a single career that involoves turtle..

[pine sleet]

can you think of a career that includes problem solving and algorithmic thinking?

[valid flint]

Yeah.

[valid flint]

yeah...

[pine sleet]

will you be going into such a career, perhaps?

[valid flint]

No

[pine sleet]

interesting

[valid flint]

do you know any career that involves turtle specifically?

[pine sleet]

i don't see how that's relavent

[valid flint]

just asking...

[fringe sphinx]

If you're this upset about turtle, you're in for a world of hurt.

[valid flint]

😭

[pine sleet]

i think you should be more open minded towards the kinds of things you're learning in your classes, both directly and indirectly

[valid flint]

it's just that sometimes it gets frustrating...

[pine sleet]

if you think along the same vein - why should a CS student looking to go into web development have to take calculus?

[fringe sphinx]

Uni isn't high school. You can either get the most of your experiences, or do the minimum. Nobody will care one way or another, but you only get one shot, don't miss your chance (yes, Eminem)

[pine sleet]

nobody said university would be easy and stress free

[valid flint]

ok ok... i get your point..

[valid flint]

I suppose so...

[fringe sphinx]

I would appreciate turtle being 75% of a grade, vs the alternatives

[valid flint]

any ideas about what i should do for the project?

[pine sleet]

honestly i'd be really happy if 75% of my grade was some turtle project..

[valid flint]

maybe i should be grateful...

[pine sleet]

it is healthier for the mind to have a positive outlook

[valid flint]

i have no clue what im gona do for the project

[pine sleet]

i assume you have time to figure it out

[valid flint]

6 weeks

[pine sleet]

make sure you don't put it off 🙂

[valid flint]

i have so much classes to attend...

[summer roost]

pick a fractal and draw it for a minute

sierpinski triangle or something

[pine sleet]

time management is an important skill

[near ocean]

do the dragon curve its cool af

i was trying to post it in here but my message got blasted

[summer roost]

heh, gif didn't animate

well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_curve#/media/File:Dragon_Curve_unfolding_zoom_numbered.gif

[surreal bolt]

whose watching the presidential debate rn

[near ocean]

its easy, do something like this

[fleet reef]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[surreal bolt]

Shut up

[summer roost]

!mute 1187132170746200159 Take some time to re-read our #rules and #code-of-conduct

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @surreal bolt until <t:1726020906:f> (1 hour).

[timid pumice]

Web dev in 2025 lmao

[white relic]

When you really need a pro to write your CGI scripts in C

must be expert in NCSA HTTPD and ReactJS

[viscid marten]

Someone said that we can post our resumes in here for a peer review. How does that work? I'm assuming not the direct pdf because we don't want people downloading stuff, but also a text blob seems a little overkill.

[pine sleet]

picture

block out personal info

[pine sleet]

What sort of jobs are you applying to? If it’s SWE I’d omit the IT jobs as they’re not as relevant - it’s best to keep a resume to 1 page

[viscid marten]

Fullstack / SWE but I feel like in my positions I'm not specialized enough for either I guess.

I heard it was best to keep it so employers could see your carrer progression but you are right it's honestly pretty long espically if someone just glances over it for a few moments.

[pine sleet]

at first pass the person reading your resume has about a minute, have less stuff that’s more impactful

[viscid marten]

Could you give an example of what you mean by impactful?

[fringe sphinx]

^ 6 bullets for ~~short ~~jobs is way overkill.

Cut it back to one page, make it crisper - highlight your skills and accomplishments. You have good skills/etc, just a lot of fluff.

[viscid marten]

Make since. Should I just be using more concise langue?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes... https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs is a good example

[viscid marten]

I actually really like the idea of getting rid of the summary. I'll try to get this implimented.

[fringe sphinx]

Summaries are pointless (unless you truly have something important to say). The first bullet of the most recent job is the most important.

[summer roost]

unless you truly have something important to say
honestly, even then, you probably want a cover letter rather than a summary

[tired axle]

I'm in my second year of computer engineering, and I've lost a lot of motivation. I feel like I don't know why I'm studying this anymore. I used to want to work on artificial intelligence and be one of the best students, but now I'm even questioning if my major is the wrong choice. There are no computer engineers around me, and as people talk about other fields, I feel like I'm losing interest. Has this ever happened to you? Can you help me?

[thorny wing]

ngl im 60% done of learning python on a web.org and i dont think im learning... plus its getting bored anyone has a solution?

[pine sleet]

make projects

[fringe sphinx]

Tbh, you nailed it on second half. School is not real life: the workplace is nothing like school. Focus on networking: clubs, conferences, etc. Your Uni may have graduate research groups and seminars that you could attend. Watch conference videos to see what is going on in the real world. You have to learn outside the classroom. And of course, internships

[fringe sphinx]

Also: my motivation comes from my customers; I -love- my job when there's a tangible purpose to what I'm doing, even if somewhat imagined.

[tired axle]

how can i know which major is best for me

and this is kinda late to ask question i know

[pine sleet]

you can't, really. some 30% of college students switch majors at least once which is a sizeable portion

[lapis quartz]

i like the advice yall been dropping here thanks everyone

[tired axle]

friends from other majors doing same/similar projects and having more skills in various fields sometimes makes me feel comp sci is unnecessary

i need to find my passion and get out of this existencial crisis

[lapis quartz]

it isnt programming?

[thorny wing]

i ask chat gpt to give me a proyect to make but if i dont see the code on the bottom i cant do it... should i start with python all over again so i can remember the coding steps or??

[primal snow]

You should find something that you love to do and do some python-y things to it.

The way I found my very first project is that I love to read web novels, so I built myself a very simple web scraper, scraped all chapters available from a the novel site (given that it's not paywalled), write functions to do some formatting and save it as a huge document file that's ready for me to read at any time.

[vapid jay]

How do I better my understanding of basic python topics .

[sour iron]

Read literature/documentation, see tutorials, and practice

For something specific, you could request for help in online forums such as this. Sometimes, people can provide you different approaches to understand certain concept.

Further, I think #python-discussion might be the better channel for this question. Depending upon how this conversation is to proceed, you can consider moving to that channel.

[vapid jay]

Thx for all the info ..
It really helps

[dull belfry]

hey do recruiters ask u to join like online workshop? i got a call from one saying they would like to offer me paid internship after 2months of work. they didnt mail anything i asked them to.. they simply said to join a online live workshop

its remote work

[final ravine]

Not heard of that before. Don't work for free for 2 months though

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html 😉
Practice (in projects) make perfection. Also quite fun to do

[fringe sphinx]

That seems unrealistic: I didn't figure out what I liked until I started working. Tech is a -big- industry, and careers wildly differ. Your major doesn't define your career, it just gives an entry point. That said, changing majors might be good if there was something else you were interested in... I started as a EE and ended CS

[fringe sphinx]

This sounds like a scam. There are many hiring scams.

[dapper bane]

hows u fools making money with freelancing ?

[gritty rivet]

You can search the chat history on this but very few are. Those that do either have very advanced skills or live in very low-wage countries. It's generally much easier for most people to make a living with a normal job.

[dapper bane]

I live in a third world thats y I was asking even 500$ a month can set me free

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know about the fiverr style of freelancing, but the old fashioned way makes sense to me; find people with a problem, who will pay $$ to solve a problem, and solve it.

Obv the 'find' part is the hardest, which is why I always emphasize networking: I haven't interviewed for a job in, well, a long time.

[gritty rivet]

Cool so you're looking at the competition and Upwork and Fiverr and figuring out a strategy to compete based on what you see? It's basically all about getting some good reviews

Of course if you can network directly and find customers off these platforms like BillyBobby is talking about, that's better

[dapper bane]

I know react native, django, mern and godot. Godot is very niche but i dont know if i ll get any clients

[plush summit]

Maybe modeling is alr in blender for example to get clients but that isn t programming 🤷‍♂️ freelancing as an ureal dev can also do good but then you need a decent pc

[dapper bane]

man I aint modeling nada that shit is irritating to do

I got a better job offer that almost doubled my salary but I had to refuse because I only know godot and not unity

It was heartbreaking

[fringe sphinx]

Why not just learn it?

I mean, if they offered the job, they know you'll need to learn.

[plush summit]

I only know ue5 unity is going down anyway

[dapper bane]

3d programming feels like so tough in unity and it is a slow ass engine

[fringe sphinx]

But you turned down 2x money?

[dapper bane]

I had no choice man if would have accepted i wouldnt be able to complete their tasks. I was powerless

[lapis wind]

Isn't most modelling just done in blender

Pretty much everything I've seen in places where you wants models, be that games or animation, Blender is just the go to choice and then you can just load the blender model exports with what ever game engine

[dapper bane]

yeah but I aint no artist

I cant even make pixel art straight

is there anything specific to python and blockchain ?

[plush summit]

Or zbrush

[dapper bane]

I am learning solidity

[devout zenith]

Me too

[royal wren]

Hey

<<p>>stop<</p>>

M'y HTML IS correct ???

[white relic]

this channel is for career discussion, and this is a Python server.
off-topic is probably the place to raise html questions (but it might be better to ask in another server)

[silk rose]

Do you have any suggestions where I could find a hidden job market for scientific python in combination with materials science? It is time for searching for my next job. I have a physics background and would like to continue to use it. I am checking out linkedin mostly, but I don't find much.

[peak halo]

there isn't a "hidden" job market. Unless a company is deliberately trying to fill a position through connections, there will be job listings on the surface-level internet.

I recommend using Google's job search tool to figure out which companies are hiring, and then apply through the portal on that company's website.

[white relic]

Are you in the USA or EU?

[silk rose]

Oh, what is Google's job search too?

[silk rose]

I am based EU, I don't have a work permit for US. If the job would be really cool and there is a good offer, I might consider moving, but I guess I will continue search in the EU

[peak halo]

I don't want to look it up on my work computer lest my employer think I'm trying to leave, but I think Google will bring it up automatically if you do "materials science jobs near me"

seems to have worked on my phone

[silk rose]

Interesting, this is how it behaves for me

[peak halo]

remove the quotes. when you put quotes in a google search, it looks for exact text matches.

[silk rose]

Tried it, same. Interesting. No specific job tab turns up.

Maybe this is a US thing what Google shows there

[white relic]

I'm in electronics research. There's a lot going on in semiconductors that has strong overlap with physics and materials science. Everyone's looking for the solution to the power problem especially with the AI explosion. I won't name names, but you might look for companies that do electronics manufacturing, design automation, that kind of thing. If that sounds interesting to you, looking up recent scholarly papers on low energy computing tech may give you an idea of who is in this field and might be hiring.

All of it will have substantial opportunity for scientific programming and Python is common.
But some will (also) use other tools like JMP and/or MATLAB

[compact quarry]

Guys i want to learn python please suggest correct learning path for beginner

[gritty rivet]

Correct is what ever works for you and keeps you coding... beyond that you should ask in #python-discussion unless you have questions about career stuff specifically

[compact quarry]

Okay 👍

[vapid jay]

I don't think I'm skilled enough

I only knows oop flask and basics django , and advance mysql

I'm a high school student, and i thought I'll pursue coding with python, but there are so many people infinitely times better

[fringe sphinx]

That's hardly a reason to not learn. We all started where you're at.

[vapid jay]

But I don't have money to invest on learning and all this Apache server, or debugging, or testing, terms scares me

[smoky quest]

There is only one way to solve it: learn about them
It's also one of the reason people go to college for 4-5 years. It will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation for a CS career

[fringe sphinx]

You don't need money. You just need to learn a little, code a little, and repeat. And a laptop or desktop, doesn't need to be expensive.

Learning coding is like learning a sport, you start off bad. And slowly become better

[vapid jay]

Hmm, but I'm just scared yk that's why I wasn't able to learn django either as it was complicated then flask 'views models' these things are confusing

[white relic]

1. There are more things out there to learn than web dev. If you are interested in physics, graphics, cars, finance... make programs that do little things that you find cool, especially as you are learning. You don't have to learn django or flask if that aspect of things doesn't interest you.
2. If you just aren't interested in programming, that's fine too. You have many options available to you. But most people have to work to live comfortably and anything worth doing will sometimes be hard to do. If you give up on things that are hard, you'll inadvertently bar yourself from a lot of happiness and success. It's hard to change this attitude later in life as taking the easy road becomes a habit. Don't start now.
3. Trust me, there are many developers who barely understand their job. And yet many of them are quite well paid and software keeps getting written and the world goes on turning. You don't have to be a genius to make software, you just need study and practice. What is there to be scared of?

[vapid jay]

you couldntve known that tho

[pastel thunder]

Is it just me?
I think a lot of what i am being told to do in the new team, goes over my head, colleague explain but i feel bad to repeatedly ask what they actually mean.

What to do?
How to actually get them to explain in layman terms?

I think its a bad move to just say ok, when i am not getting anything.

In my last job i didnt understood many things, which caused a lot of problems,

How can i avoid it? I think i am putting in a lot of efforts, so many sleepless nights, but not meeting their expectations yet?

It has been 3 weeks since i joined

[spice willow]

Just ask them, especially if you're an intern

[pastel thunder]

I try to record what i have been told, and note down too,

But i am noticing i forgot what i was told 30 minutes before, unless i revise it.

Sometimes it feels like what they are saying is completely new to me.

And most of the time gets wasted in the meeting only, i hardly get to work on my assignments in working hours, most of the time i see myself working 2-3 in the morning and not making enough progress

And everyone else seems too busy. And when they explain, it sounds cryptic

[gritty rivet]

You don't really know what you do and don't understand until you have to use it. And there will be a lot of things have to use annd relearn more then once before it sticks

At any vaguely functional organization, a lot of things will be documented and when it's not, you should have the power to fix that documentation. If you struggle to learn but fix their documentation so the next person doesn't have to struggle, you're a hero

[pastel thunder]

Theres is close to 0 documentation

I understand the business idea,

But which code does what,
And why it does it that way

This is my problem

[gritty rivet]

So you will fix it by working with the people who know to document what needs to be documented. You're not at fault for the lack of documentation, but as the fresh pair of eyes you have a critical role to play in solving it

[pastel thunder]

I think i am doing something wrong,
I have another colleague joining a months before, he is very active and contributing greatly.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, what are the tasks you've been assigned? Focus on what you need to know for those tasks.

[pastel thunder]

This is what i try most of the time

I think its because i am too afraid to ask again

[fringe sphinx]

Didn't you just start this job?

[pastel thunder]

3 week sorry

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so three weeks in, you've been assigned a task. What is it about the task you don't understand?

[pastel thunder]

I did one task, fairly fast, implementing logger( it didnt require much knowledge of code)

Second task was related to inference files not matching to dumbs

This is where i am stuck

[fringe sphinx]

To be a successful engineer, you have to give up your ego. You can't be afraid of not knowing things: our job is to figure out things we don't know.

What kind of inference?

[pastel thunder]

I think this is the issue,
I get told to use
Xyz
And i just say ok, when i dont even know what that xyz is

[pastel thunder]

ML model inference

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that's a you problem. Me, I ask 100 questions before I do anything. Mrs Bobby does not appreciate it.

[pastel thunder]

Its just outside home thing for me
😭😭

[fringe sphinx]

Now, you need to go 'swarm' figuring out what xyz is. Read about it, what's it based on? Predecessors? Competitors? Etc

[pastel thunder]

I will ask everything from tommorow now

[fringe sphinx]

Right now, spend the next hour figuring out xyz. Pros and cons, alternatives, api, etc

[pastel thunder]

Dont need know they spelling
They said when python file call cpp files debugging is very hard

So they use sgp( not sure if they said this)

[fringe sphinx]

I also admit there's a cultural factor.

[pastel thunder]

Another thing was for debugging on remote machine they use scree(here also not sure if this was it)

And i dumbly said ok

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know what sgp is

[pastel thunder]

I hate my attitude

[fringe sphinx]

Well, first step to being better is admitting you have a problem.

[pastel thunder]

Not sure if it even started from s

[fringe sphinx]

Gdb?

[pastel thunder]

Maybe. Dont know

[fringe sphinx]

Gdb is a very popular debugger

[pastel thunder]

Seems like it, i looked it up

[fringe sphinx]

And makes sense, I guess, if you're trying to debug c++ code

[pastel thunder]

Currently not, but will do in future

[pastel thunder]

Thank you, i think this is it

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion plz

[vapid violet]

I am creating my first resume. I have some certifications that came with a certification ID for easy confirmation. Should I include that on the resume?

[vapid violet]

Or is that something you provide on request

[gritty rivet]

Normally on request in my experience, but no harm in including it if it doesn't distract from more important things. I would probably only include it if it's a critical qualification for the role.

[vapid violet]

👍 thanks

[lean beacon]

Hey all? i want to begin coding In python to get a job? Which projects are easy and can accepted by the recruiter?

[peak halo]

Hello, it sounds like you have a misconception about how people get jobs as developers. There are no projects--let alone easy ones--that people can present to a recruiter to get a job with no other qualifications.

[lean beacon]

Also, what is better Ios dev or python dev, I have interest in both of them** , I wanna land into a job as soon as possible

[peak halo]

what country do you live in?

[lean beacon]

India**

[peak halo]

Okay. I don't really know what the job market looks like there. There probably aren't very many iOS devs in this chat.

[lean beacon]

Okay.. what if I wanna get a job, what do I need to follow any ideas?

[pine sleet]

there is no set path that everyone follows, however a cs degree is the path of least resistance and most oppurtunities and compensation

[thorny wing]

Guys will python help me for a software developer carreer?

[fringe sphinx]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2024

[thorny wing]

that answers the question

[cloud beacon]

Gotcha.

[drifting minnow]

What's the often project involved when it come to doing the python job? I guess, for most in "Data Engineer"...?

[twilit violet]

is python even good for jobs?

[pine sleet]

yeah

[twilit violet]

do people do ai stuff with java?

[quartz cairn]

Can you write code in Android Studio in python?

[twilit violet]

no

[pine sleet]

yeah

[twilit violet]

doesnt seem too common why?

[smoky quest]

on a python discord, indeed

[twilit violet]

hahaha true but like in generaly i always here c and python never java when talking about ai

[smoky quest]

java is more used on the inference side. And C, pretty much not used other than for hyper specific optimizations 5 levels down below in the libraries

[twilit violet]

whats inference?

[dusk sorrel]

Newbie here. Just found out I need to learn python as a network engineer in 2024 🥲

[fast fossil]

Are you saying you were expecting that by now all of that could be done via a GUI?
Also, it could have been worse, like Java shudders

[plush summit]

Why you hating on Java 👁️

[sudden timber]

making ui in swing was my first programming related ptsd

[potent walrus]

Is anyone familiar with careers that involve using python for data or statistical models?

I see traineeships and bootcamps that cover very similar topics claiming to be related to them. Namely:

EDA
    Basic pandas/numpy
    Univariate
    Bivariate
    Correlation Analysis
    
Data Cleaning and Preprocessing
    Data Cleaning
    Feature Engineering
    Data Splitting
    Feature Scaling
    Feature Encoding
    PCA
    
Imbalanced Data
    Resampling
    Precision-Recall Curve

Models (Regression)
    Univariate
    Bivariate
    Model Evaluation
    Bias-Variance/Overfitting + Underfitting
    Ridge Regression
    Lasso Regression
    
    Logistic Regression
    
Models (Other)
    KNN
    Decision Trees
    ...
    Hyperparameter Tuning

Hyperparameter Tuning
    Grid Search CV
    Randomized Search CV

Some have additional coverage, like more software components or pipeline modules. But the bulk seems to be fairly similar.

What 'career path' are these supposed to fall under? The people operating these say it's for MLAI engineers, Data Engineers, etc. but I'm sus and wondering what is the point to them if any. Are these topics recognized or used at all in the industry?

[potent walrus]

Also, legit question: what do AI model developers actually do? Do they just spend hours blindly tuning hyperparameters or something until they get something that works?

[primal snow]

I can't speak for others, but it's a mix between that and following a certain literature.

[hearty totem]

I do spend 97% of my time munging data pandas/polars/dask way and then figuring out ROC/precision-recall, and whether they make sense. Actual model training is less than 2%

[twilit portal]

So would that fall under EDA and data cleaning/preprocessing?

[hearty totem]

The most useful pieces I do are answering the questions: is GPT or Llama performing better for us? Or do we actually have the names we searching for in the context?

Both are mostly data bashing rather than fiddling the model itself.

[hearty totem]

I'd say it would go through half the curriculum in that post. Is the distribution univariate? Do correlation actually has any meaning here? Is something particularly unbalanced? Why? Did we forget to shove half the data into the pipeline and now all the metrics look weird?

(That last one is particularly difficult to find because you assume that no human error happened during data prep. Perhaps the most weird skill that experience gets you is to use the entire bat belt of tools to tell whether something is likely a data discrepancy or one needs to investigate if a human got fat fingers somewhere along the line to get the data to you)

[twilit portal]

Thank you

[soft tulip]

Hi all.

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> 😉

[long sequoia]

Software engineer is a pretty broad term part of another broad field of computer science right? So when somebody says they are a software engineer, do they typically have some sort of thing they focus on at work, like web development? I always get confused with a bunch of these terms

[buoyant seal]

They are more like Veen Diagrams connected.
Software engineering is A
Computer Science is B

and they both share a good measure of stuff. And in some countries/universities, there is only degree for Computer Science, even if u wish Software Engineering.
Software engineering is about building software
Computer Science is its prehistoric roots begnning with mathematics and currently pretty much data science oriented path

Also yeah, Software Engineers are plenty often having specializations

[long sequoia]

I see, typically if you wanted to be a software engineer, it wouldn't really matter to employers if you have a engineering degree specialising in SWE or a cs degree right? The SWE engineering degree i am looking at has a ton of random normal engineering stuff like circuits etc etc, and is consequently a year longer than a cs degree (3 years)

[buoyant seal]

Typically would not matter i guess
Your specialization will be defined by Random after graduation if u will do nothing extra
And can be chosen by you, if u will put some extra effort and actually get hang of desired language/tech stack stuff to prepare yourself for working after graduation

Typically any degree misses to teach some of the core commercial grade software engineering stuff https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
Recommending to get hang of it throughly before graduation, or at least after

[long sequoia]

thanks

tbh idk what I want to do rn and I was just very worried I could regret choosing one degree over another

I heard most cs degree graduates become software engineers though

[lean harbor]

are there any links to resumes which got someone an entry swe job here I could look at? with the projects they did being available to look at? I'm trying to look at what others put as projects on their resumes so I have an idea of what I wanna put and what is acceptable to put

[near ocean]

Not really, there are pins about people documenting their journey to getting a job/internships though and a resume template for you to start with

People could post the cvs that got them jobs i guess but i imagine most of them will look the same as the template, i know mine does

[lean harbor]

is the template pinned?

[white relic]

yes

[near ocean]

jakes template, kind of assumes youre in the US or UK though
#career-advice message

[lean harbor]

@near oceanhmmm is jake considered more experienced for entry level application?

I have an economics degree no comp sci, what would you recommend I do to have my resume standout?

[near ocean]

Jake is not a graduate no, just fill in whatever experience and education you have
You should also include more projects to fill the whitespace

(that means building more, complex projects)

[lean harbor]

@near oceanis there any example online of a project someone built so I have an idea?

I just don't even know where to start in building something

[near ocean]

Look at https://github.com/codecrafters-io/build-your-own-x

The resources/bots/sites built for this server also qualify

[lean harbor]

@near oceanin terms of cataloging stuff in github how would you recommend I do that? because I've been doing a course in python but I haven't put anything on my github just yet

is there a video or guide for how to use github for career purposes out there?

[near ocean]

You should learn git first, then github's own set of features
Easiest way to learn is to just do
Open a repo, play around with it

[true harness]

there isn't really "github for career purposes". there's just good code practices that you can show off using github

[lean harbor]

but people who go over it will see your timeline right? so it's best to start putting stuff there right away?

[near ocean]

not really, just put stuff there, its fine
you can fuck with the timeline if you wanted to anyway

[lean harbor]

ight, sounds good
is it normal to as a noob feel overwhelmed by everything? looking at that guy's resume I'm just like "bruh how am I gonna get to this level"

[twilit portal]

I feel the same way so I'd say it's normal

[near ocean]

Yes its normal, just start, it'll go away

[lean harbor]

learning other languages after your first is much easier right?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[gritty rivet]

There are different schools of thought on this but in my experience nobody is going to care what your timeline looks like. If you're far along in the interview process, they may look at pinned repos or ones you mention on your resume but they aren't going to scrutinize it for very long.

So, quality over quantity. When I got my first dev job (as a career changer with no relevant degree) my primary project was a simple REST API built in Flask, and the job I got has nothing to do with Flask. Good documentation, tests, etc. matter more than what your project uses or does.

A lot depends on what roles you're targeting. Get to know the job market and build projects that relate to the roles you intend to apply for.

This market right now is brutal, especially for beginners. Be patient and persistent because it's normal for great resumes to get a 1% callback rate right now. We're hiring for an unusually beginner-friendly role and got over 1000 applications

[lean harbor]

thx for the info everyone it's appreciated

[lean harbor]

I;m still in process of learning python doing a udemy course which is actually pretty good since it makes you practice a lot, about maybe 20% done so not quite ready to build projects but starting to get to point where I think I should attempt to build small ones not like resume ready but basic stuff to practice

[gritty rivet]

Sounds good... It's good that you're thinking about resume anyway. Don't wait until you're "ready", just start looking and applying as soon as you have some sort of project to talk about.

[twilit portal]

If it's not a secret, what's the unusually beginner-friendly role?

[near ocean]

mine was a spotify music bot, to add more examples

[twilit portal]

Nice, good to know

[gritty rivet]

DM sent

[near ocean]

beginner friendly? how are you filtering 1000 peeps?

[white relic]

show me all the candidates whose name has an sha1 hash ending in 0

[true harness]

ending with 2 zeros should give you 4 candidates approximately

[white relic]

invite 'em in for an in person

hard on the other 996, but we don't want to hire unlucky people here

in all seriousness, when you have that many applicants, "randomly" is a reasonable answer

[near ocean]

Pull out the trusty blindfold and pick randomly

[gritty rivet]

I'm not that directly involved in the hiring but there must be a degree of random sampling. I'm surprised the majority of people we send take-home technicals too don't pass, but that helps.

[formal tulip]

i am taking a computing level 3 tlevel in college (in the UK)

in the course it is learning python, cybersecurity, networking etc.

what would be a good career pathway to go down with this 2 year tlevel

[lean harbor]

so even if my coding experience is kinda meh I should just apply anyways? just to get accustomed to the hiring process and stuff?

I'm at that point in python where I understand coding logic, and psudo code wise I can solve problems, but I often just forget syntax

[graceful owl]

this just means you should write more python, so the syntax becomes a part of your muscle memory, in my experience at least

[snow pivot]

Hey guys so as title says i m completely new to python,i trying to set up a bot for game, someone already posted the files and steps to do it.I am not able to create sessions i.e 5.
How to do the above given steps i tried to open main.py with python 3.11 but it crashes on startup.Also tried vscode i can open it but can't follow instructions given in 5. Please help this newbie thanks in advance

[near ocean]

Which title? The title of the channel says #career-advice

[snow pivot]

Sorry my bad which chat can i ask help its really urgent

[lean harbor]

true, one issue I've had recently is I just get overloaded with practice and I have this feeling of really not wanting to do it
but been fixing this with doing more interesting problems
the course I'm doing does lame stuff like "build a calculator" and I get why it's useful and stuff but wanna do more dynamic interesting stuff

[graceful owl]

(disclaimer: i don't know much about t-levels lol)

i anticipate that options will be relatively open, could go software engineer, data science, security analyst, etc.

really it depends on what you find interests you the most, and then working extra on those skills in your spare time if possible

i will say that typically the roles i mentioned software engineer/data science/security analyst have a bias towards liking university degrees in CS or something, but that's not to say you won't be able to get roles there, especially if you put work in outside your qualifications and show you're good with personal projects

but take this all with a grain of salt, i haven't done a t-level/don't know anyone that has

[sonic radish]

Hi

[graceful owl]

unless you're getting a respected qualification out of it, you probably don't need to worry about necessarily doing all of the problems in your course if you've got more interesting/difficult projects you want to work on: just do those

[lean harbor]

it's a udemy course but it's actually pretty good

I was expecting it to be like most courses which are meh and have little practical stuff, but here if anything there's too much practice lmao it takes like hours to finish a single module

[graceful owl]

no such thing as too much practice imo :p

unless the practicals are writing insane amounts of boilerplate code, then it's probably a waste of time

but typically i would imagine if it's taking you hours to finish a module, that means you're learning stuff by doing the module. if you knew it all already you'd be able to breeze through the practicals

[lean harbor]

is it normal to take like 2-3 hours to finish one of those modules though?

the pace is getting a bit faster but it is still a bit of a slog
I noticed now I instantly know how to solve a problem logic wise, but I just forget the syntax how to do it
so in my head I set up how to do it properly but then just don't know the code to do it

[gritty rivet]

Most SWEs studied CS full-time for at least 4 years. Expect a slog, just keep moving persistently enough and you'll get there

[gritty rivet]

I think so. The only reason not to is if there is a specific employer that you're exceptionally interested in, then maybe don't apply if you're not ready to make a good impression. But otherwise, there's a lot to gain and little to lose by spamming companies with your resume

[peak halo]

@honest thunder your message was removed for breaking our rule about seeking employees.

[muted night]

Guys my gpa in bachelor's sucks, I'm not getting any job opportunities. Should I go for my master's and improve my gpa

Or just keep job hunting

[fringe sphinx]

What country are you in?

[peak halo]

how many applications have you done, over how long? and for what positions?
can you show your anonymized resume?

[fringe sphinx]

** some countries normalize sharing your GPA on the resume, and others don't, which is why I asked.

[muted night]

India

[muted night]

I've been applying on and off since the start of 2024, close to 30 applications I would say, never got an interview call

[fringe sphinx]

30 sounds really small

[muted night]

Well
At least I should see some benefits in continuing to apply

[peak halo]

when I did my job hunt, I did about 200 applications in three months.

idk how the job market is in India, but in the US, 30 applications in 9 months would be way, way too few.

[muted night]

I'm convinced they don't call me bcz of my gpa

[muted night]

I just completed my degree in July

[peak halo]

see how many interviews you get after you do 100 applications.

[muted night]

And the exam for masters admission is in February, if I don't start now I'll lose that opportunity too

[near ocean]

Why would a masters fix this? Wouldnt people ask you about your bachelors grades?

[muted night]

They usually put a cap on the eligibility requirements

Like 7+ cgpa required something like that

Also all of my batchmates who had 7+ got jobs

Even 6.5+ I believe

I've been trying to upskill but I think it's useless without an above average GPA

[white relic]

If you didn't get a good gpa in your bachelor's program, what makes you believe you will do better in a master's program?
I don't mean to discourage you from pursing a master's, but I'm not sure this is the fix you think it is.
And that supposes you can get into a master's program, to which your GPA may also be an obstacle.

[muted night]

Ikr there's no guarantee that I'll do good in masters but I see this as my only option moving forward

[fringe sphinx]

What's your question though? We're giving you various answers, but you seem resigned to not try them.

Apply to more jobs. Make sure your resume is as good as possible. Practice and keep your skills current for when you get an interview. Keep your options open.

[muted night]

Yeah I got stelercus' point and I'll do that

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, dont be hard on yourself: you have control and opportunity. Talk to people, get out of the house, volunteer, etc

All you need is one break.

[muted night]

Thing is I got severely depressed/burnout during my bachelor's, so much so, I'm still on pills to this day. Hopefully, I can keep it in control this time

[muted night]

Will consider this for sure

[white relic]

"Only option" to pursue a master's? If you apply and get rejected for the master's program, you will find that the other option was there all along.
There is no harm in entertaining it now.

[fringe sphinx]

I'm no expert but: there are small things in your control. Like: not having lunch alone (call a friend, ask a family member for advice, etc), contributing to a project, volunteering, practicing, sending out 1 job app every day, etc. any -1- thing is doable... vs doing -all- things

[white relic]

I don't mean to be a downer. Just pointing out, you have more options than you probably realize.

[muted night]

Actually here, you have to give a nationwide exam to get accepted into masters which asks maths, aptitude and computer science questions

And the exam is quite hard, you have to go full time on its study if u want to get accepted,
Which differs a lot from preparation for job interviews

And it is in Feb '25

[white relic]

Ok. I don't see how that changes what I said.

[muted night]

So I shouldn't focus on getting accepted in masters is what ur saying

If I'm not wrong

[white relic]

I'm saying it's not your only option.

[muted night]

Alright understood

[white relic]

It may well be your best option. I'm not qualified to comment on that. But you definitely have more options.

Stuff BillyBobby said (talk to people, volunteer, etc.) is a good way to broaden your view of what's possible.

[muted night]

Yeah

[wanton birch]

Man! Sending out job applications feel so much better when you already have a job!

[gritty rivet]

Scheduling interviews can be a bit trickier though, especially if you work in an office with zero privacy 😉

[summer crow]

what work y'all do?

[wanton birch]

Haha yeah! Luckily my teaching job allows me to work from home most of the time.

[inland barn]

Hey guys umm im new to python can someone tell from where i can learn python the best and for free

[gritty rivet]

!resources

#python-discussion

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[wispy rampart]

I don't know the business rules, I just write the code... (the way it feels sometimes)

[silk rose]

Why it could be different? Different profs, different topics, suddenly things click, different interests.

[silk rose]

Don't underestimate the mental pressure by sending 1 job / day. Maybe one wantx to target the CV to the job and the cover letter, it is time conusming. Don't forget: Once mental health is destroyed, it is way more costly and time consuming to restore it.

[errant thicket]

what’s the best way to get a help desk job? i been applying and working on my comp a+ cert i put on my resume but still not getting hits any help?

[fringe sphinx]

True, I mean this in the sense of:set small achievable goals / make incremental progress.

[fringe sphinx]

Apply to lots of jobs, talk to friends and family, and make sure your resume is well written.

[errant thicket]

ok ill keep applying and my famly are not in cs so what other option do i have.Also I barley have real life friends that are in cs as well to any idea ?

[muted night]

Friends and family will NOT give you a job btw, you MIGHT get a referral only if you're very lucky

[nocturne kiln]

does anyone here know about visual basic

[harsh river]

is it related to your carreer?

[nocturne kiln]

yes

[harsh river]

how so?

[nocturne kiln]

i need to learn it

like for web development

[white relic]

Sure, it could be different. But it could also not be. A master's program is a significant investment of time and money to gamble on "well, maybe things will be different this time."

There may be reasons to expect it to be different (like being on a new medication).

Hoping really hard isn't a sound career strategy.

[fringe sphinx]

The point is to talk to people and don't just wait for opportunities. Learn from other people: don't ask for jobs, but hear what they're doing, etc. Anything that gets you out of the house.

[fringe sphinx]

Fwiw, maturity does help. My masters was a totally different experience from
my bachelors, but I worked for a few years first.

[errant thicket]

i see thanks

[true harness]

the new topics build on CS fundamentals, though. poor fundamentals will be a detriment for learning more

[wicked parcel]

Hey! What do you guys think about FastAPI? Is it being used in the market? worth learning?

[harsh river]

yes it's being used in the market, yes it's worth learning

[icy oyster]

FastAPI is good but you should first consider the business needs

Im developing a product with a friend and we went with go because we really need that speed, fastAPI would make our lives much easier but we need go performance

[gritty rivet]

When you actually finish the cert it should help. Same for your degree if your still in school. This market is really bad though so just keep at it

[errant thicket]

yea but my cs degree may take me 3 years to finish i can’t be that long without a job but im working on the cert

[silk prairie]

I know Python and I think now I need to specialize and choose a branch. I am interested in the backend. What is the offer?

[sand patio]

are you asking about getting a job?

[fringe sphinx]

Why do you need to specialize?

[silk prairie]

I do not insist on income. I want to choose the right path with your help. It could be anything right

[silk prairie]

This is what I think; If I am wrong, please correct me

[fringe sphinx]

Specialization tends to happen after one gets a job, not before. Generalize first, specialize later.

[mellow lantern]

Hello guys, im working on my python projects im new to the server

[silk prairie]

You are right. So what do you think is the best solution for me who knows Python up to object orientation?

[sand patio]

what do you want to do? do you want a job? are you programming as a hobby?

[silk prairie]

I want both. I got into programming with interest, but now I say it's a good idea to make money

It is a good idea for me to be able to enjoy work and earn money :D

[sand patio]

I see, so you want to work as a software developer?

are you still in school, if you don't mind me asking?

[silk prairie]

Yes, I am still in school (if it matters in Iran)

Because the situation is a little different

[sand patio]

If you want to go into the workforce as a programmer, while I'm not sure what the job market is like in Iran, the general advice is to get a degree in something like computer science (or, like, whatever yall have there), and then apply for jobs.

If you're programming as a hobby, there isn't a need to specialize - ultimately you can do what you like, build stuff you're interested in, and contribute/work on projects that you find fulfilling.

[silk prairie]

I am not yet old enough to have a computer science degree. I want to be ahead of most people when I enter university :D

[sand patio]

it's good you're programming then!

once you're in university, again while I'm not sure what it's like in Iran, but people where I'm at tend to go into internships while they're in uni.

[silk prairie]

Actually, I shouldn't think about the degree now. Give me a chance, I have the degree. What I want to understand better. The decision is right. What should I decide now and what should I focus on? ()I meant to say, I have the degree, what's the next step?

[sand patio]

whatever you want, like I mentioned. build more projects, see what you end up liking.

[silk prairie]

Do you have any projects I can see? If there is no problem and access is open to the public

[sand patio]

!projects has a bunch

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[sand patio]

see what sticks out

[silk prairie]

I hope I understand what you mean, I will create several projects. But the question is: what kind of projects are supposed to be? I have no idea
I want to know what you mean by creating a project. Thank you for the explanation

[harsh river]

Projects are simply meant to help you show that you can indeed to what you claim to able to do

[sand patio]

It's whatever you like, really. Is there something specific you've enjoyed building before? Programming is very open ended, there's a lot you can do. You don't need a specific "target" in mind

[bold holly]

I'm just graduated with PhD in computer science and trying to get job

and I'm a furry

[fringe sphinx]

For a beginner, the most important thing is practice. Write code and solve problems. Get good. And keep getting better. This is a never ending process.

[fringe sphinx]

Just don't wear the ears to an interview 🙂

[silk prairie]

I am familiar with many libraries in Python. So continuing them can be a good idea. Am I right? :)

And maybe create a simple personal website :D

[pulsar aurora]

Should I learn C++ or Python I wanna learn either one of those so when I go to college I can do programming but i wanna know which one is better to learn What do yall perfer

[summer roost]

if you don't know any programming language yet, it would be much better to start with Python than to start with C++.

[fringe sphinx]

Yes: there's no wrong answer as long as you're writing code. You're still at the beginning, and whether you write games, websites or ML, you'll build the right skills

[summer roost]

C++ makes a nice, like, 3rd language. Learning C++ as a first language is really getting thrown in the deep end.

[silk prairie]

Great for getting started with Python. Don't think more about whether your field of interest is in Python or not. Python is a good choice to start with because of its simplicity and versatility. In addition, learn other languages more easily and don't get tired of programming.

[silk prairie]

How long do you think it is good for me to continue doing this?

[fringe sphinx]

When you get a job and most of your coding time is for work.

[silk prairie]

I know it's up to me, but can you guess how long it will take to get there roughly? (given my current level)

[fringe sphinx]

Are you in Uni?

Hard to say when you'll be ready for a job. Usually 'when you have a degree' is the easy answer.

[silk prairie]

Not yet, I'm a little far from it

[silk prairie]

Degree is more important than skill and ability?

I am asking this to know how it is in your country and other parts of the world

[pine sleet]

skill and ability is the most important, however a degree is part of that

[bold holly]

no

[pine sleet]

For entry level, someone with a degree will often have more skill and ability than someone without so it’s common for your resume to not even get looked at if you don’t have a degree in order to cut down on the sheer number of applicants

[fringe sphinx]

One way to look at it: a degree opens the door, skill and ability is what gets you through it.

[summer roost]

when it comes to landing your first job, it's very hard to get the opportunity without the degree. The overwhelming majority of your competition for openings will have a degree.

[ionic spruce]

Hi, How to get remote jobs as python Developer/Web Developer/ Data Analyst?

[thorny wing]

Whats the diff of front end developer, back end developer and full stack developer

[balmy spade]

The prefix of the "developer" part of their name. Also what domain they might focus on.

[tranquil storm]

Difficult, but not impossible. You must demonstrate your skills and projects to prove your worth. I decided to get the degree since the job market is tough right now. I have the time to get the degree and make that first step a little easier. Even then I'll need to prove my worth through projects.

A few people in my courses have developer jobs and are working towards their degree. They know it will open doors for them that are currently shut without the degree.

[vapid jay]

above me is gay

[vocal matrix]

hello, im new to using celery library for async processing of task. im wondering if anyone can guide me how do I implement a task that deploy multiple subtask to download related dataset or file thanks for your help

[kindred oyster]

<@&831776746206265384>

[kindred oyster]

try asking in #web-development , people over there know about celery
also for future reference, this is not the correct channel for this kind of questions (read the channel description to understand what the channel is about)

[vocal matrix]

oh im sorry my bad

[kindred oyster]

no worries

[summer roost]

!cban 1254682143972393076 Trolling in #career-advice

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @upbeat eagle permanently.

[calm dome]

Yoo, Im interested in data science because I love stats and probability, can anyone maybe give me an example of projects that you learn in data science

[muted night]

https://builtin.com/data-science/data-science-projects

[west ruin]

784490604352110592

[fringe sphinx]

Also check out Kaggle.com/learn

[daring pier]

Yes its not impossible though as I don't have degree but was confident about my skills. Mostly startups look for the skills but not degree, keep improving yourself. Go with the DSA well, problem solving skills is the thing..

[cloud loom]

Guys after getting my bachelors degree,is it worth to do a Mtech in data science or MS in data science?

[timid vigil]

hey, i am working as SCCM admin.,
but fully bored with this
i know so many languages not in deep
so got stuck in the decision what should i do
now i thought of doing everything with Python., Automation, development and all
so please give a roadmap
because internet is full of doubts

i know JS, react, Python, Java, C but not in deep

[white relic]

I'm not sure about the "startups don't look for degrees" narrative. I've known some startup founders and while money may be tight, they need solid fundamentals, business sense and relevant industry experience. Maybe some startups have a different strategy but I don't have a good feeling about telling self taught people to go after startups 🤷‍♂️

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
Learn unit testing in full capacity to be awesome. Add to it Code Complete, Code Architecture stuff to be able understanding your app building at code scale with testability kept in mind.

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
Pick good long term project to build, and build projects 😉

Also what is SCCM? is it Windows system administrator?
If that, then... moving towards Linux servers infrastructure as a code can be a nice challenge and path towards more enjoyment
That is if u wish to keep your operational side further.
If no... then just go pure software engineering thing (backend dev or smth)

[cloud loom]

WELP,😭🥺

[fringe sphinx]

What's the question mtech vs Ms?

[cloud loom]

yeah

[fringe sphinx]

That's a very India specific question, I think. We don't have su ch a difference in Us

[cloud loom]

real

[graceful owl]

does the actual 'type' of degree even matter? beng, bsc, ba, etc.

i don't think i've ever looked at it on candidate's resumes

[fringe sphinx]

In us, bs and ba are practically equivalent (a few courses different between the two for schools that offer both... a ba in cs might have more non tech classes).

[cloud loom]

so all it matters is my skills, right?

[graceful owl]

that's all that matters to me 🤷 , YMMV with other people who are hiring

[fringe sphinx]

Your resume won't make it to my desk without a degree.

That's the point: fair or not, no degree means a lot of closed doors. But, there are ways to succeed: either get 'lucky' and find someone who'll give you a break, or enter through an adjacent job like QA

[cloud loom]

I'm lucky since I'll complete my B.tech next year and will have a degree

[fringe sphinx]

Then you'll be fine. Start thinking about your resume, and gaining some practical experience

[cloud loom]

I'm already on it

[fringe sphinx]

Networking with people who are graduating too: they can help you

[cloud loom]

Thank you for your time

[wheat heath]

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1284153737597681705

please

[unreal crater]

Guys how can i turn python skills into a gig

[peak halo]

Don't turn it into a "gig".
get a computer science degree and start a career as a developer.

[unreal crater]

Ok

I already know some coding though so is the degree necessary

[peak halo]

It is. it's very unlikely that you'll get a job if you just know "some coding"--you'll be competing with applicants who have spent at least four years studying computer science full time.

[unreal crater]

What if its part time?

[peak halo]

part-time developer positions are pretty unusual.
Why are you setting your sights so low? getting a degree and getting a full-time developer job will be the path of least resistance with the most opportunity and compensation.

[unreal crater]

Im talking about in college?

[peak halo]

those are internships, which aren't quite the same as part-time positions.
they typically are full-time positions (probably without benefits) over the summer.

[fringe sphinx]

Side gig work in coding is hard to find. Web development is one area you may find some work in, or graphic design, especially small projects like an e-commerce site using existing templates:frameworks.

There's also IT work, but a lot of this comes down to finding people with small enough problems and some $$ to spend.

[twilit drift]

shld i drop comp sci if i know NOTHING about programming prior to my a level

a level comp sci btw, im fine with theory tho ig

[peak halo]

!starify 1216037644723683431 "1 day"

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied superstar to @twilit drift until <t:1726329277:f> (1 day).

Superstarified!

Your previous nickname, saucysundayforhotmoms, was so bad that we have decided to change it. Your new nickname will be Ed Sheeran.

You will be unable to change your nickname until <t:1726329277:f>. If you're confused by this, please read our official nickname policy.

[twilit drift]

huh

[peak halo]

I don't know anything about A levels, but at least in the US, computer science programs don't expect incoming students to know any amount of programming. they expect to teach you during the program.

[twilit drift]

oh okay thanks. legit everyone in my class had already known and i was so stuck. now im tryna teach myself on visual studio code the basics but its telling me that i dont have an extension for debugging plain text when i try to run my code

[peak halo]

VSC is a code editor, not a learning platform.

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[twilit drift]

i know im practicing what i was taught todya

[peak halo]

try following along with one of the beginner resources here ^

[twilit drift]

i cant i need to use VSC for my coursework, i just dont know why its saying that on my laptop

[fringe sphinx]

Can you open a help thread and share a screenshot? #❓｜how-to-get-help

[austere swan]

Hey guys tell fast please, if someone is saying the requirements are python, c etc...
Can that work be done with c++
I mean if I sayI know python and c++ instead of c but c++ can do work easily Is it good to say?

Because c++ and c are very similar, isn't it?

Tell fast please

And if there is more formal and good way to say, suggest some
Work is : Trading bot for Plus500
The bot should focus on day trading cryptocurrency with an investment range of $500 to $5000.

[twilit drift]

ive done it thanks

[fierce willow]

how can i learn coding

[inner wren]

Available tags

» args-kwargs
» async-await
» blocking
» botvar
» class
» classmethod
» codeblock
» comparison
» contribute
» customchecks
» customcooldown
» customhelp
» dashmpip
» decorators

To show a tag, use /tag <tagname>. (Page 1/8)

[fierce willow]

!clas

!classmethod

[inner wren]

The `@classmethod` decorator

Although most methods are tied to an object instance, it can sometimes be useful to create a method that does something with the class itself. To achieve this in Python, you can use the @classmethod decorator. This is often used to provide alternative constructors for a class.

For example, you may be writing a class that takes some magic token (like an API key) as a constructor argument, but you sometimes read this token from a configuration file. You could make use of a @classmethod to create an alternate constructor for when you want to read from the configuration file.

class Bot:
    def __init__(self, token: str):
        self._token = token  

    @classmethod
    def from_config(cls, config: dict) -> Bot:
        token = config['token']
        return cls(token)

# now we can create the bot instance like this
alternative_bot = Bot.from_config(default_config)

# but this still works, too
regular_bot = Bot("tokenstring")

This is just one of the many use cases of @classmethod. A more in-depth explanation can be found here.

[mystic pivot]

anyone here do freelancing?

anyoneeeeee>>>??

[pine sleet]

what would you ask someone who did?

[mystic pivot]

ask him about freelancing . i want buy laptop thats why

once i purchased i will stop doing freelancing and study for SAT

[craggy scarab]

what??

[mystic pivot]

COZ this laptop which i have now is slow af its old and it cant do coding properly so need some money to earn

[mystic pivot]

sat is a exam do u know > digital sat??

[craggy scarab]

you live in usA?

[mystic pivot]

im talkin about digital sat

[pine sleet]

what is your question? are you asking for what laptop to buy?

if so, you may want to try an off topic channel or a dedicated discord server like https://discord.gg/5czbmKD

if you have a question about how freelancing or SAT relates to your career, then this would be the channel

[neat egret]

tell me if you find them... fiver seems oversaturated lol

[pine sleet]

it is, that's why it's not usually recommended

[neat egret]

People building full stack apps for $4

[west flicker]

What's the best starting point for someone who just graduated from programming and has also mastered python

[white relic]

starting point for what?

[pine sleet]

what does graduated from programming mean

[mystic pivot]

BRUHi said i am gonna do freelancing until i purchase laptop for myself but i need to find a person who does freelancing

[pine sleet]

and ask them what about freelancing?

[mystic pivot]

bruh ********

i will ask him about like for web developing how much price and many other things

i will ask him the knowledge he had all about freelancing nothin else

[pine sleet]

you should ask all your questions here, so if a freelancer sees it they can help

otherwise they may feel pressured to answer questions

[mystic pivot]

but i need a freelancer for that

[pine sleet]

the people answering your questions can be freelancers

just ask them

[mystic pivot]

i am searching people in other servers

[pine sleet]

ok. it's more effectively to directly ask your questions

[neat egret]

I'll ask the questions that I would have: How do you get your first customer? How do you deal with competition? Do you feel like you're paid fairly for your time?

[mystic pivot]

@neat egret have u done freelancing

i dont think so about fair word in freelancing customers are scammer sometime

[fringe sphinx]

"freelancing" always strikes me as odd in these conversations, because (ime) people who've done software consulting never call what they do "freelancing". It's just consulting. Or contract dev.

[mystic pivot]

imagine i hire a web designer fir 20 dollar and i set price for customer 30 dollar

[pine sleet]

1. networking - know people
2. same answer as before, there are tens of thousands of other people, connections is what will land you a gig
3. can't attest to this one

[fringe sphinx]

Fiverr and sites like that are a very different world, very transactional and low-value stuff, but for people just starting maybe it's the only option.

(this is all to say: I know consulting & contracting, but not the small transactional stuff)

[neat egret]

I've bought software from fiverr before and been happy with it

[mystic pivot]

bro how much did u learned

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I've been working professional for decades... and I'm still only halfway.

[mystic pivot]

what type of software

[neat egret]

A selenium web bot

[mystic pivot]

what u do >

web developing?

[fringe sphinx]

data engineering

Everybody wants to do something with data.

[mystic pivot]

how much do u earn

[fringe sphinx]

That's something nobody answers over the internet.

[mystic pivot]

give me hint

[fringe sphinx]

There's a 0 in it.

[mystic pivot]

like one iphone 11?

[pine sleet]

that's kind of a personal question..

[mystic pivot]

above 500 dollar?

[pine sleet]

it's still not really socially acceptable to ask for someone's income in most contexts, especially over the internet to a random person

[mystic pivot]

bruh omg nerd

[neat egret]

rich people don't want to make other people feel poor, and poor people don't want to feel poor

[mystic pivot]

ok random person forget that number after sometime so it doesnt matter

[mystic pivot]

i agree

[white relic]

(and rich people don't get rich by telling everyone how rich they are)

[mystic pivot]

who knows

[neat egret]

as you can see by the money stacks in my profile pic, I'm rolling in it

[mystic pivot]

@neat egret i thought that is gojo

i think need to learn video editing

[turbid shore]

Should I be concerned about this?
I am going to university in about 2 years...

[final ravine]

Sharing salaries only harms your employer

[fringe sphinx]

Well, there's a diff between sharing it with randos and sharing it within a cohort.

[final ravine]

I'd be well up for an anonymous salary survey on the server. Maybe stratified by years of experience and country

[gritty rivet]

That person had no idea what the market would look like 4 years ahead back when they started. You have even less idea what it will look like 6 years ahead.

You have to weigh your options based on the information you have. Is there some more promising path you're thinking to pursue instead? If not, the only solution is to study hard and hope for the best.

[pine sleet]

if you are interested in the field, motivated, and willing to work hard you will find a job

[final ravine]

Rich people don't get rich by earning money

[fringe sphinx]

I really doubt the "the crop of my college who graduated last semester..." part.

[fringe sphinx]

This seems like common shitposting on reddit. cscareerquestions is a hive of... well, you know.

[pine sleet]

real

reddit is always like this. same thing with r/csmajors

[deft pelican]

No, I mean, the situation is different per country and per city. If the education exist hopefully there is a job market.

[final ravine]

Not everyone here is a guy.

[spiral magnet]

#there-is-always-someone-offended

[spiral magnet]

It's like recurring theme, It's nothing new that need for bad software developers saturates. I have my own experiences and since I found my job It could be a survivor bias, but as I was sudying most of the people there didn't know s-word about writing code, not even talking about programming. What's worse they had no will to change that and no ambitions there, it was like 9 out of 16 graduates who represented completely unbeliveable lack of knowledge. Hence, no wonder they didn't find jobs. On the other hand, there is always something you can do to stand out from the crowd. Mostly it's about dedicatio and determination to represent something with yourself. Writing open source is a great opportunity to actually understand what is IT all about in a way that no Uni can teach you. Also, a solid project which solves actual problems is worth more than two degrees and 20 uni TODO list assignment projects. I can tell you about it, since I was hired where I am mainly because of my open source activity and all the knowledge that is actually worth something (it's called experience) I gained doing open source :))))

Maybe in few years after I get laid-off and won't be saying the same thing, but for now it is what it is, survivor bias :)))

[mossy lion]

Hello everyone I'm new to the channel and i have some questions related to the python career if anyone can help i would appreciate it

[gritty rivet]

Don't ask to ask, just ask 😁

[mossy lion]

I'm wondering if there are any python career related to automation tasks just like the ones in UiPath

As I'm already creating scripts that does the same automations that is used to be developed in UiPath but with python but i cant find any jobs related to python automation

[foggy pond]

Anyone worked with AWS services like S3?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes but just ask your question. And if it's not a career question, ask in the appropriate channel

[gritty rivet]

I have no idea what UiPath is but if I search Indeed for "UiPath Python", I see automation jobs in my local area.

If you don't, you either need to move,.or you need to work on skills that are more in demand where you are.

[gritty rivet]

Or if you're saying you're trying to get away from UiPath, it's still a basic question of understanding the right keywords, people, companies, etc. Maybe you can explain the problem more, for someone who's never heard of UiPath,?

[mossy lion]

UiPath is an automation tool that makes automation in a low-code development environment but with a high cost

So im asking if there are any jobs in the market that is related to python automation skills

[gritty rivet]

Automation can mean lots of things. Automate what?

In general though, absolutely, if you search for jobs with the keywords automation and Python you will see a lot of things.... At least I do where I am.

[wraith field]

Google says "UiPath Inc. is a global software company that makes robotic process automation software."

so if you're interested in robotic automation I'd say AI engineer

if that's what you mean

[outer quest]

Hey guys, i have a question, can i Create a PC game with a Python?

[fringe sphinx]

Could you ask in #python-discussion ?

[mossy lion]

But AI engineer is another field not exactly like python automation i think

[wraith field]

that was based on Google's definition of UiPath which is robotic process automation

I know nothing about that company so I was just guessing

python automation could mean a million different things

[mossy lion]

Ohh, i see

[wraith field]

what do you mean exactly by python automation

[mossy lion]

I can automate a lot of tasks with python like:

• Files and folders
• data manipulation
• database connections
• automated report generation
• ETL tools
• API automation
• web automation
• web data extraction

[wraith field]

that's roughly speaking backend engineering

[mossy lion]

But backend engineer is related to the web development more that to the automation

[wraith field]

okay

[mossy lion]

Unfortunately i don't know about web development and i dont know what title should i call my self with the skills listed above

[wraith field]

I dont know either sorry

thought it was backend engineering but you say it's automation

backend engineering is not necessarily related to web development though

that's more full stack engineering

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't worry about that. You're a software engineer.

[prime fog]

Hello i just started coding do y’all have video tutorials

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion plz

[hearty totem]

"robotics" is just a fancy word I do see people adding to job/project descriptions. The word means nothing. It is just automation. Once upon a time I did work next to a team doing a "robotics" project that involved writing grep queries on an email queue. It was automation of email stats. But it called "robotics" for fancyiness sake

[wraith field]

not sure what you're referring to I just posted Google's definition of that company

[fringe sphinx]

Just like all the AI people who do the same data analytics jobs that have always existed

[wraith field]

I personally never heard of the term "automation" on its own, at least here in the UK

[hearty totem]

I just believe that Peter Essam is overly focused on the words. And the word "robotics" is just terrible to focus on.

I do hear "automation" on its own a lot, in the UK. But from my data engs, they use that a lot. And I'm just happy because it normally means that I get my data faster

[wraith field]

I mean in the industry, have you ever seen a job ad that requires Python Automation Engineer?

it's also used a lot in DevOps e.g. CI/CD automation

[fringe sphinx]

Automation Engineer has a lot of LinkedIn hits.

[wraith field]

okay

found one https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3768130012/?alternateChannel=search&refId=l6aWpH0zlkcPNVkSLOjhbg%3D%3D&trackingId=OGKU5V%2BH1cVto6w%2F9AAN6A%3D%3D

not quite a software engineering job I'd say

[hearty totem]

Indeed, automation engineer is most often the DevOps bloke in a company whose main business is not software. There's some python in it likely but it would be mostly non-python ("yaml programming" anyone?)

(nothing wrong with that btw)

[fickle mirage]

I just wanted to jump in and see what others think about the market in December of next year. I get that is predicting the future, blah blah, economy, blah blah, it depends on where you live, blah. To answer some of those Pacific Northwest, undergrad, three internships, relatively high GPA. Specifically data science/engineering. I feel like a lot of oversaturation of engineers is happening and a lot of the vibe in this channel is saying, "yes but be more patient and better." Is that the general vibe or will their be a rise in employment by then?

[gritty rivet]

In what way does it matter to you right now? Suppose you knew there would be 25% more or 25% fewer job openings in tech in December... What would you do differently?

[fringe sphinx]

There's a presupposition here: that people aren't finding work, right?

There's a lot of people who've posted here, gotten a resume review, starting hunting for work, and got interviews quick enough.

[fickle mirage]

In the way of how you should plan a career? What I would do different is not bank on landing a job and open up to different career paths.

[fringe sphinx]

The so-called 'over saturation' is, I think, an exaggeration and misunderstanding of what's happened over past few years.

[fickle mirage]

You can say that, but that is anecdotal. I would love evidence of either position really as I haven't seen anything solid, just people saying one thing or another.

[gritty rivet]

Do not bank on landing a job on any specific timeline. Set a reasonable goal, do everything in your power to meet it, and know your backup plan.

If the Fed announces a .5% cut on Wednesday I believe that is likely to support a little bit of job growth in tech. But I don't know why or how that would impact any personal decisions or career plans

[fringe sphinx]

Influencers and Reddit love to complain, but that's also not fact based. Ask your classmates or career office how their job search has gone.

[fickle mirage]

That's literally just asking for more anecdotes, which doesn't make sense. (let me add that it is the same thing as I said earlier. Some people say market is miserable, others say it is over exaggerated with no evidence to say it is terrible. Hench why I was asking for numbers as my anecdotes have told me that, your idea is solid.)

Their are personal decisions on where to move, as I live in a pretty rural area. I'm interested to know what a backup plan would be in your eyes?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not sure what evidence will make you happy then. Backup plan? What possible backup plan is there?

Graduate, don't be mediocre, and make some friends/network.

[gritty rivet]

We do know things are bad.

In terms of the number of job openings in tech, it's been inching up over the past year, but still half what it was at the peak: https://www.trueup.io/job-trend

CompTIA recently announced a 6% unemployment rate in tech. Apparently that's worse than at any time in over a decade. And the fact that it's been steadily higher than the general unemployment rate over the last year is also unusual and negative

But I agree with BillyBobby that the negativity gets over-hyped. It means that you have to work hard as hell if you're going to pursue a career in this sector right now. But people are getting hired every day.

[fringe sphinx]

That chart is also misleading, because 2021-2020 was 2x 2019 baseline. Fred / indeed has some data from 2019 on, but that lacks any historical trend too

[gritty rivet]

It's 2024, you don't need to take the risk of moving in the hopes that it might increase your chances of finding a good job. You can move if and when you find a job worth moving for. Whether you should take the risk of moving somewhere preemptively or not has nothing to do with the short-term economic forecast

[fickle mirage]

Wouldn't it be harder to network that way? Also, I have moral reasons for not wanting to work what's available in my area. I know there is a certain level of suck it up, but I really rather not.

[gritty rivet]

There are always more datapoints to consider... I think you're right that the number of openings right now is just normal, but the 6% unemployment figure reflects the fact that the number of people looking is higher than in the past

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I think it's down... just not 50% below normal

[reef tartan]

Hello everyone, I am new here

[gritty rivet]

These are relevant considerations you have to weigh. My point is just that if I tell you I think hiring is going to increase or decrease by December, it should have no bearing on your strategy

[strange pumice]

Hey guys i want to get into dev agency, saas, freelancing. to make some extra cash on the side. I'm thinking of starting out as a web/app developer

[white relic]

Just to be clear, "extra cash on the side" suggests that you have a regular (presumably non dev) job and are looking to supplement your income. Is that right?

[wraith field]

if you are looking to use platforms like freelancer or fiver and you dont live in s.e.asia just forget it

[strange pumice]

I'm in America

[strange pumice]

i somewhat figured i think i might have to do it from scratch. like my own business and market it

[wraith field]

well it's pretty much impossible to compete against those markets

[strange pumice]

im guessing they can offer great serfcies for less money

[wraith field]

yup

great could be debatable but definitely ten times less than your lowest possible offer

[lilac vale]

Hello, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and I am restarting my coding career from Nodejs to Python. Specifically looking into automation & machine learning. Thinking of diving into Selenium, NumPyu, SciPy, Scikit ,Pandas & PyTorch. I have no professional engineering or developer experience, but I wouldn't have the job I have now without my developer learning. Please tell me what you recommend I should focus on, learn, and prioritize.

[harsh river]

which part of america?

[strange pumice]

Colorado

[strange pumice]

darn

[harsh river]

oh, so north america 😛

[strange pumice]

oh that's what you meant, year north america

[fringe sphinx]

What experience do you have? And edu cation?

[vivid lark]

I need help

[peak halo]

See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[lilac vale]

I am currently a QA Analyst with some college education. (Covid)

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, that's a good start. Theres a few areas you could work on, ranging from just basic programming: building your coding experience and ability to tackle larger projects, to QA engineering / test automation, to DevOps / cloud, to software engineering practices and methods. Kinda depends on what direction you want to go

[lilac vale]

What do you think will be best for the future? Like I said I had automation & Machine learning on my mind but if something else would better future proofing I'll look into0 it.

[wraith field]

cyber security is meant to become more popular in the future

[lapis wind]

🤔

[gritty rivet]

Here in the US it's generally the opposite. Most successful freelancers have professional experience and connections. When you lack those things, getting a normal full time job is easier then finding customers willing to pay US wages for something someone with years of experience will do on Upwork or Fiverr for $5/hour

[dull belfry]

How do I get problem solving skills I can't comprehend the problem statement itself and think of a solution

I like making stuff with programming but I am a very bad problem solver how do I get better I been doing coding website exercism problems and almost completed it

But still I can't see any improvement in my problem solving

I don't know much dsa should I get into it will that make me better.. programming for 1 year now

[umbral fox]

bro i failed my entire test bc of the print function

[gritty rivet]

This is a very unclear problem statement 🤣

This just looks like overthinking to ne. There will always be problems you're not ready to solve. Practice easier ones until you're ready, and get help whenever you need it

When I was in a coding bootcamp they told us to follow a 20 minute rule. If you're struggling and making no progress at all on something after 20 minutes, ask someone with more experience.

In the real world and/or for bigger challenges you might need a bigger time box, say 4 hours. But if you're just learning that's way too much

[dull belfry]

But if I do that then will i learn anything.. i tend to sit on problems for long time.. mostly I ask chatgpt when I get so much stuck

most of the time the answer it gives make me think am such idiot I could figure that out myself

So next time I spend even more time on problem then same repeats I don't get better

[wraith field]

doesn't sound like a career question to me

[dull belfry]

It's for my Programming career I feel imposter 😭

[wraith field]

start with simple things like trying to figure out where to post your questions

and how to explain your problems clearly

[dull belfry]

should I ask gpt or not.. it does give me correct answers.. i mean it take a lot of time for people to respond if I post here when I get stuck

[wraith field]

start with help channel maybe

[dull belfry]

I think using of gpt is making me bad problem solver that's why asked

I don't copy gpt code I just write my own.. but feel like I rely too much on it

[wraith field]

yes relying too much on something that solves things for you could have that side effect

[dull belfry]

yes true i think am losing ability to solve myself i should avoid it

[wraith field]

writing could help

like you have a problem you cannot solve

try to think of the best way you could ask the question so that everyone can understand your problem

[dull belfry]

Oh I see

[gritty rivet]

It's very normal to need to look the same thing up multiple times before it sticks. If you're not able to find the answer quickly, you may need a better note taking system

[dull belfry]

it's like when I get a problem i always think of my previous solutions to similar problems maybe i take a peek at gpt solution and try to implement it.. but like after some weeks I may struggle with the same question

I find myself in this struggle often

[gritty rivet]

We are all relying heavily on AI in the real world and this is generally encouraged

When you're learning, yes, if you can do something in a reasonable amount of time without using it,. that's probably better for your learning. Handwriting all your code on paper would also be good for learning, but it would slow you down a lot! So it's about balance.

Just be sure that you're not copying and pasting code that you can't explain line by line in your own words. As long as you take that time to pick apart and analyze what AI is giving you, I think you'll be fine

[dull belfry]

I don't have any like specific method to problem solving

[dull belfry]

Hmm I should take some time for that ig

[dull belfry]

but don't u think like even though I understand the gpt code at that instant I may fail to replicate the same after say few weeks.. it's better to solve alone without AI

[gritty rivet]

Part of the beauty of engineering is that it doesn't matter. Either your solution meets the specifications,.or it doesn't. The specifications should be rigorous but the solution will often come about through some degree of guessing and intuition and human experience and unconscious decisions.

Are you self-teaching? Then yes,.you may be lacking some systematic methods that you would learn through formal education. That's one reason employers value degrees so much

[dull belfry]

This happens often with me

[dull belfry]

Yes self teaching also starting uni

[gritty rivet]

It's the frequency of repetition and practice that matters more than whether the answer came from ChatGPT or a Google search or your own notebook.

[gritty rivet]

Great, you're going to learn a lot in uni and you will gradually build your confidence.

[dull belfry]

Hmm I keep on problem solving then I should look some dsa too hope I get better..

Thanks for time.. I was having imposter issues now feel little relief 😅

[fringe sphinx]

Specializing in when you're starting is a bad idea. Build a broad foundation, and you can interview for many types of jobs. Focus on one thing means you'll be neither an expert nor adaptable

[fringe sphinx]

I think that the journey is as important as the result: using AI while learning means that you're skipping over the -other- important things. The code is not the only objective, the ability to solve problems, to debug, to find information, to acquire related knowledge, etc is the objective.

But the details matter... using it to generate code without putting any effort in vs using it like Google are two different things,

[white relic]

@dull belfry you may be the target audience for the book Think Like a Programmer. It puts names to some systematic ways of thinking and works through some puzzles both with and without code solutions.

[vapid jay]

Hi, I need a serious advice. I am in college doing CS degree and I focused mainly on project and development instead of leetcode and my college syllabus. Now I have 5 backlogs in first year. What should I do...

[fringe sphinx]

What's a backlogs ?

[vapid jay]

F, re-appear, re-test, repeat, 😭

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, so - you're fucking up, and you know it. That's good to know.

You can either: acknowledge your study habits and academic habits are terrible, and allocate many more hours to it each day, or repeat the same problems.

Passing a college course is 90% just putting the time in. Something many of us didn't learn in high school.

[fringe sphinx]

You're probably at risk of academic probation. There are tutors and study groups available in most Unis. Seek help. Be coachable.

** I know all of this from experience, I'm not just saying it. My freshman year was an epic failure.

[lilac sundial]

Say im preparing for interviews or im trying to code better in general, should i practice all kinds of general aptitude questions

For example, what is 18.92929 roughly equivalent to

1)120/7
2)268/4
3)789/6

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? Nobody is going to ask you that in a SWE interview (in the US at least)

[lilac sundial]

Sorry for the weird question but this is kind of what they do all across india and other SA countries

[fringe sphinx]

But also, can you solve that in about 15 seconds?

[lilac sundial]

If i had a pen and pad yes

[fringe sphinx]

Huh. You need to learn approximations.

[lilac sundial]

For sure

[fringe sphinx]

Or, in that case, just multiply 18 by the denominators

Or even 20... 7*20 ~ 140, so the first is a maybe. 4*20 = 80.. no. 6*20 = 120, so 3 is a no.

[shut stirrup]

hey guys i have leant python and did some small projects with some libraries. now i wanna get into a specific career ik some options but not all of them(sm if u can help pls)

[fallen sundial]

hey

[molten widget]

@leaden jasper can you do something with this

[glacial smelt]

<@&831776746206265384>

[molten widget]

@azure heart delete messages too pls

[leaden jasper]

You should ping the moderators role in the future, not individual moderators. Also the pban already purges messages.

[summer ocean]

Hey, my name is Muhammad Mustaqeem, im not much into the industry yet, still deciding my career path , will be doing my igcses 2025 may/june. Im interested in cs , programming n stuff. Not sure which specialization in tech i should be going for. And ive been reading through the chat about job opportunities and stuff. Im 16 atm. What do you all suggest ?

In regards with future job opportunities n trend, cuz i still have years before searching for work

Currently in uae

[fringe sphinx]

My advice: don't specialize. Learn broad skills. Learn to code and do small projects, learn about technology, find the fun in math (outside of class), talk to people about their careers

[summer ocean]

Alright, and what do you think about future jobs , like is it rlly hard to land a decent job since i feel the amount of programmers in the market can be rising to much, and especially by the time i get into the work phase.

Rn im just doing basic python, but not consistent cuz of school

[fringe sphinx]

I think the 'over saturation' fears are exaggerated. Software engineers are in demand, and they're finding work. The job market is complex and influenced by many things outside tech: the job market is sometimes tight and sometimes loose, but IMO software engineering will continue to be a good career.

Uni CS graduates are landing jobs, at least those who took their studies seriously and put some practice time in to learn programming

Again, this is my opinion only, I don't claim any special knowledge or predictive ability.

[summer ocean]

Alright, im kinda confused when i hear about so many fields actually, like cyber is high rn, idk if i shall be going for that, or just expand so much in programming and do smthn in software , backend smthn

[summer ocean]

Im thinking of leaving A levels and doing some cs degree, just for some basic foundation for the field

[summer ocean]

No worries, i rlly need some opinions and cross questioning cuz of my confusion. Articles feel overwhelming when idk anything but the worry increases only

[fringe sphinx]

I'm in US, so I don't really understand your system... but: if you have a year to decide, I'd suggest spending a few months on each topic. Instead of reading about the field; do a project in each field

[dapper bane]

guys I have a chance of getting into an interview which will 2x my pay it is an image editing app
but doing the companies task made me realize it is a real tough job and I hate the syntax of expressjs
idk what to do

I am not at all comfortable with it and will probably make a mess

but the pay is real good

[fringe sphinx]

Is it a full time job?

[dapper bane]

yes

[fringe sphinx]

So why not take the job and learn it/become comfortable at it?

[dapper bane]

what if i fail ? I lost my current job and the new one too

[fringe sphinx]

So you don't have a job and you're worried about taking a new job?

That seems ridiculous.

[dapper bane]

I have a job. I am working as full stack mobile developer + devops + cybersec or atleast trying to be

[summer ocean]

Yeah if i dont do A levels then i have time to resrarch n stuff

[fringe sphinx]

Why would you fail?

[dapper bane]

because I am not comfortable with the tech stack but i completed the companys task that was required for the interview. When I was doing the task I realized my lack of knowledge

[summer ocean]

Why not try for it tho? Ull learn new set which may help in some other job if this dosent go well

[fringe sphinx]

Not being comfortable with the stack is normal for a new job. Most engineers have to learn a new stack.

[dapper bane]

Aint there a safer way to play this

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, but the safer way is 1/2 the money

Me, I'm confident I can learn any stack. Offer me 2x money? Then I'm working my ass off to make sure I succeed.

[dapper bane]

hey I aint risking everything i built till now for a handful of nothingg

[fringe sphinx]

That's fine. Someone else will take the fat stack.

[dapper bane]

shit bro u know how to put salt on the wounds

hey is it allowed to talk about blockchain programming on this server ? I got another opportunity as well. I ll try to complete the task tommorrow

[summer ocean]

Chill bro, just think about increasing ur salary while.u increase ur knowledge as well. If not this job, this set may help somewhere else

[wraith field]

did you get an offer or just speculating about the future?

[dapper bane]

I am very near to the offer'

[wraith field]

very near means you have done the final interview and I am assuming you did well

if that's the case why would you be worried?

[dapper bane]

something like that

[wraith field]

well if they think you're good enough I wouldnt worry

you can always get more familiar with your new stack on the job

but generally speaking there's always an element of risk when changing jobs

dont want to get too philosphical but life in general

[safe coral]

Hows my resume guys?

Should I add my degree in Linguistics from 2011 in Turkey?

[formal belfry]

Depending on the job you are going for, it may be a very positive factor (e.g. NLP)

[safe coral]

erm... this is a career channel

[quasi pivot]

Do we have a channel where people post code of different commands?

[formal belfry]

I guess he's asking re. LinkedIn for work so I guess it's fine

[safe coral]

I wouldnt put a photo like that on Linkedin to begin with.

[formal belfry]

Not sure about convention but shouldn't the projects also be in reverse chronological order?

[safe coral]

I guess

[formal belfry]

Useful feedback but worth elaborating