career-advice

[buoyant seal]

then i am a friend you need 😉 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf-ysT2vErQ

Obvious u just need to get better with Python and SQL.
This book from Mariano Anaya regarding Clean Code in Python to get it better
https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Code-Python-Refactor-legacy/dp/1788835832
U need having learnt throughly at least one relational database language in depth with performance tuning and debugging its issues.

The most crucial skill is unit testing for backend developers in dynamic typed languages
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
invest into it deeply to get it. to write unit tests with integration to postgresql/relational bases is most important for backend dev, otherwise tests are too fragile and useless
That is essential skill to become Middle ranked backend dev

Code architecture books at same page how to go indepth further to learn unit testing in full capacity

preferably also give a reading to Code Complete it gives overview in most aspects how to write code better

Otherwise a crucial skill beyond unit testing, databases, wielding language in a good way
Is being able to communicate well, gathering requirements 😉 Team work matters.
Some books can be helpful on this path. System analysis book is about it, at least a plethora of its stages.

[grave acorn]

kept, and expressed incredible gratitude

[buoyant seal]

in modern also backend people are often asked to know docker enough to use in their development environment
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#DockerDeepDive
Quite useful to develop with right database engine locally. Some teams just develop from within of it on every day basis
Also useful skill to do the most simple deployments in a comfortable enough way.

But the essential skills are unit testing, communicating and just practice to develop nice applications and libraries 😉
Code architecture books linked at same page help to open eye onto architecture and experiencing no problems in doing so

Some fluff potentially can be asked on this way further, things like elastic search, or kafka, or AWS (often quite valued on Europe/America market for backend devs, and probably larget possible fluff to learn)
But they are all changing technologies. not the best "main" investment
The best investment is into Core Software Engineering subjects, which those books teach and just doing any practical nice projects to have portfolio as part of your resume

[buoyant seal]

I will add here, that it is nice eventually learning static typing in python, which is possible to validate with things like mypy/pyright, and writing nice code if using data structs generously (including like pydantic)
But it is hard to learn if u know dynamic typing languages only.
I would advice giving a try to language like Golang in order to understand typing in Python 😅

But anyway, that's all fluff. Unit testing first please throughly for proper hard skills, everything else later.

[errant thicket]

how could i not be that 78% i really don’t wanna live paycheck to paycheck

[true harness]

education, projects, experience

[fast fossil]

also good money habits, expenses tend to grow proportional to income
suppose education is part of these habits

[fringe sphinx]

This isn't a serious question, is it?

[errant thicket]

yes i’m serious because the stats show everything

[summer roost]

software engineers tend to be paid significantly better than the average American

[oak summit]

can someone send me their portfolio? im trying to learn how to code and create something of my own but i need some tips

[summer roost]

but also, I know a lot of white collar people who have gone into significant high interest debt. Don't fuck with credit card debt.

I've known people with 6 figure salaries who still somehow managed to have nearly $50k in credit card debt with an average interest rate around 20% APR...

all of which is to say, living paycheck to paycheck doesn't just depend on your top line, it depends on your bottom line

[visual flax]

Is it normal to do everything you can to achieve and feel like its never enough?

[tardy spire]

yep 😭

[open ivy]

Yes. Let's fix the difficulty estimator!

1. It's too easy to underestimate programming tasks.
2. Programming needs downtime and thinking time.
3. There is a bias for which we hear about a few highly famous people but that is only a tiny fraction.

[open ivy]

If I will ever will run out of money, I would rather do it without debt than a year or so later with massive high interest debt.

[gritty rivet]

Portfolios are very different depending on the person and the kinds of roles their aiming for. For example,.are you applying for full stack web development, data science, or what?

Personally my main project when I got my first dev job was a REST API built with Flask. But that could be totally irrelevant if you're not app for backend.jobs

Whatever you do the technologies used are less important then things like documentation, tests etc. So build whatever you want to build but build it well

[oak summit]

I am currently going into college to learn comp sci and we are learning currently C++ so i wanted something with C++ oriented maybe idk

[open ivy]

I do wonder how many years of experience it takes for resumes to start being more efficient than networking? I had horrible resume luck for my first job, got it though networking with moderate effort. But after 10 years I imagine that my resume will look pretty good.

[fringe sphinx]

Networking is always superior.

That said, I expect you'd probably have no problem landing an interview with a solid 10 YoE resume.

[gritty rivet]

If.you do a web search for c++ portfolio projects you'll see loads of ideas. This is a Python server so I'm not sure anyone will have their own.

Also try searching on LinkedIn for people doing the jobs you want to be doing, especially if they graduated from your degree program recently. They may have links to their portfolios or you can ask them

[smoky quest]

I would not really compare them.
Network is a great way to get high signal but on a limited breadth, while your resume will give you access to a broader range without the depth/trust of the information you could have through your network/someone you trust

[gritty rivet]

I don't think I understand the question. The two always work together. Nobody is going to hire you without a strong resume and nobody is going to see you resume if you don't network

[smoky quest]

It's a bit more nuanced.
Like sometimes, someone may come up with someone in their network who is preparing to job hunt and hasn't prepared their resume. So you talk to them and go off their linkedin profile

[gritty rivet]

I would say a LinkedIn profile is effectively a resume in that situation. It has the same key details

[smoky quest]

Sometimes it does, and sometimes it's just a bare bone list of employers

[open ivy]

I agree that cold sending resumes is not a good idea. Both the theoretical arguments and experimental evidence I have supports this.

Unless you are a senior at Google maybe?

[peak dew]

congrats! where did you post your resume?

[harsh river]

I didn’t post it publicly anywhere, I just posted it here for review as it was my first resume, maybe the company had their spidey senses on and sensed that I was looking for work?

[open ivy]

I do think of jobs as a social task. Social tasks require indirect approaches, like waiting for the right time etc. spamming resumes out is more like going to a bar and asking "do you want to be my friend" to everyone you see.

But your strategy was more serendipious.

[torpid birch]

ngl i am going crazy, I've been sending my CV for months now, and every answer is "After much consideration we decided to not..."
I guess dev work is not for me :^)

[harsh river]

very much so, i had to re read the message to make sure i wasn't hallucinating

[open ivy]

Did you also:

1. Maintain a portfolio of your own projects?
2. Find plenty of geeky coding friends?

[lament ginkgo]

Anybody from bayarea? I am wondering if I can joing a geeky coding group to work on their small projects. I am fairly noob.

programming for algotrade.

[long sequoia]

I am planning to do a engineering degree and specialise in software engineering because I heard that generally jobs in this field are well payed and offer a good work life balance (especially working from home and stuff) and also because I like coding and just computer related stuff in general.

What are some negatives of cs related jobs (other than job market is not good right now)?

[sterile saffron]

negative part ?

• The work life balance is "forgot your family"
• "unfortunately"

[near ocean]

🤨 work life balance is fine, we're not financebros

[sterile saffron]

not only finance, all big companies with small IT team or even solo dev

[south folio]

Any one need a website or an App developer?

[twilit portal]

If you're looking for paid work, it's not allowed on this server

[south folio]

Yes, oh okayyy

[harsh river]

unfortunately this isn;t the type of server where you'll have much success with that

[wispy condor]

not sure whether to pursue tech career or house sitting professional

[fringe sphinx]

Have you had your resume reviewed/critiqued?

[torpid birch]

Yeah last time ppl over here said it was alright, i can send it again if you people don't mind

[true harness]

the people have decided that it is fine

[fringe sphinx]

If the resume is fine, questions to think about: 1. Are you applying to enough positions? 2. Are you applying to a wide enough range of positions (including adjacent roles in QA, for instance)? 3. What can you do to improve your skills / enhance your resume in the longer term?

[torpid birch]

Yep i started applying to various roles, being it QA, backend, automation, DevOps and some more that can fit my current knowledge, i also applied to Junior roles since the reality is that i never officialy worked for a development role besides the project i am currently on, and honestly Junior role probably pays more than what i am getting currently.

I do not have a personal portfolio since all my projects are work projects, i am currently changing that by creating a website with some cool F1 stuff

[fringe sphinx]

Are you getting interviews, or just rejected pre-screen?

[torpid birch]

Pre interview, i had couple interviews but all except one were consulting stuff. The one interview i went was ok but they wanted someone with more experience even tho they didn't said that on the listing.

[torpid birch]

Honestly i even get rejected to junior stuff lol even before gettting an interview

[gilded sand]

Are there good websites where i can find jobathon postings?

[fringe sphinx]

I'd say keep applying. You'll get better at interviewing too. You only need one opportunity!

[torpid birch]

Will do, thx 🙂

[sterile saffron]

@torpid birch what's region where you apply ?

[torpid birch]

I tried in Europe, a big % was in Portugal

[sterile saffron]

Western Europe have problem with a lot of ghost jobs, France made a report last week about 60% are not true.

You should contact directly the companies, share your resume even if they doesn't need for the moment.
Careers sections have the same problem.

[torpid birch]

I can see that, because here a lot of outsourcing companies are just intervieweing to create a big DB, they sometimes don't even have that job opening, just the listing...

[rocky fulcrum]

billy, do you need a coding certificate to land a CS job? i'm currently making a chess program (might become an engine in future) and my father is fully convinced job employment will be easy if i just show them that, but according to my mother, i need a certificate to prove my coding legitimacy, despite me having my chess engine code licensed and publicly available if people want to take a look.

do i really need a certificate to land a job or are my personal projects that far surpass the content featured in the courses not completely worthless?

TL;DR - dad thinks my chess program is perfect for employment. mum thinks i need a bullshit certificate. how do i prove to my mum i dont need a certificate to prove i know something?

ask in #python-discussion, not here

[fringe sphinx]

What country are you in, and what education do you have?

[weak walrus]

Oh, thank you. Didn't see the channel

[rocky fulcrum]

What country are you in?

I live in the UK

What education do you have?

In final year before GCSEs.

[fringe sphinx]

As a general rule: Certificate isn't enough for a SWE job, neither is one project. So, they're both right and wrong.

[rocky fulcrum]

how many (big, decent - whatever the word is) projects do you need as a ballpark for development?

[fringe sphinx]

About as many as you'd finish during a Uni degree which you'll also need

[gritty rivet]

You won't need to convince your parents of anything once you get hired

If your goal is to work as a software engineer,.you should get a degree.

[rocky fulcrum]

so:

1. get degree
2. record projects i made in progress of getting degree

what about before that?

[fringe sphinx]

Be balanced: learn programming, take maths seriously, make friends/network, and learn about the bigger field of computing

[rocky fulcrum]

what's the bigger field of computing?

[thorny sphinx]

I’m in the UK doing a Degree Apprenticeship. Means I work full time and study for a degree that is paid for

One route to consider! If you can get one at a good company

[fringe sphinx]

It's not just about learning programming: there's a huge wide range of things to learn.

[rocky fulcrum]

wait so how do those two things work? i thought you can only work part time while at school

[rocky fulcrum]

electronics is an interesting subject tbf. i like the appeal of compiling together AND, OR and NOT gates to do things like add numbers, store numbers, create memory and beyond

[fringe sphinx]

My suggestion is: read a book on a subject you know nothing about, repeat until complete.

[thorny sphinx]

Degree Apprenticeship:

• Paid as an employee
• Degree paid for by both Gov/Company
• I spend 70% of my time working and 30% studying the university side of things

It’s a different experience to uni different pros and cons. But very good overall

[faint depot]

What degree apprenticeship and how do you find it?

Im from the UK as well

[thorny sphinx]

They usually go live around Nov - Feb. Listed on normal job sites.

[faint depot]

No I mean as in whats your experience like doing the degree app

[rocky fulcrum]

good way to get away from my phone actually. i do need to start reading more. any good first examples?

[fringe sphinx]

I love history of computing stuff, maybe find a book about Alan Turing

And, go on a visit to Bletchley Park.

[rocky fulcrum]

leetcode challenge: crack the enigma code

[peak halo]

@dusty trail your message was removed for containing advertizing

[vapid jay]

I put the wrong company in the header of my cover letter by accident will that kill my chances?

Rest of the cover letter had correct company name

[kindred oyster]

probably
but lets hope the HR is lazy and doesnt check 🤞

[deft herald]

I've done that before and the answer was yes

They sent some very snarky reply back highlighting the mistake haha

[vapid jay]

What company, if you do not mind?

[deft herald]

This is why i hate cover letters.

As for what company...it was something like 7 years ago so i have no idea

[vapid jay]

Anything I can do to redeem myself?

Or just leave it?

[vapid jay]

Were you rejected because of it also?

[kindred oyster]

its not in your control anymore , the damage is done

[vapid jay]

How about by leaving a closing argument out by accident does that damage my chances as well?

[vapid jay]

Welp, that might be one job out of my reach 😢

[deft herald]

Yeah i was 🤷 It's all going to depend on the tolerance of the person receiving your application. The guy that got mine clearly was offended

[vapid jay]

Ok. Well now it's time to improve myself

[fringe sphinx]

On the plus side, I don't think anyone reads cover letters! Don't worry about it.

[vapid jay]

Also what is average resume length for SWE with three years?

[near ocean]

1 page

[peak halo]

My boss just called me and asked me (for the first time) to interview/prescreen a candidate

[gritty rivet]

Varies by country but in the US I would say if you can keep it to one page you should

[fringe sphinx]

Make sure to check their infraction history 🙂

[gritty rivet]

Yeah these days it's pretty normal to be sending out hundreds of applications, so you'll have plenty of chances to get it right

[vapid jay]

I had like 1 full time SWE job, 1 part time IT support job, and one 1 part time tutoring job.

Should I exclude some these jobs to fit one page?

[deft herald]

Tutoring probably isn't relevant (unless i suppose it was for some SWE related course)

But you should be able to fit 1FT and 2PT jobs in a one page resume. Feel free to post your (anonymized if you want) resume here for feedback

[fringe sphinx]

Ask over in #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

Ok will do

https://www.overleaf.com/read/jdcyvwggfbyc#13e073

[deft herald]

Well you can definitely clear up a lot of space by getting rid of that summary at the top. Maybe some others can give input but IIRC those aren't really recommended anymore

[vapid jay]

Isn't career focus needed, my career advisor told me that some employers disregard resumes if there is no career focus?

[deft herald]

I don't know actually. I think someone told me to remove it a while ago but that might be because i was already pretty experienced

Either way the one you have is IMO too wordy and can be condensed quite a bit

[vapid jay]

ok

[fringe sphinx]

By career focus, you mean the top section? That's very generic and not helpful to most resumes. If you have something truly important to say, or a passion, maybe... but you're a recent graduate. You don't need to say you're "skilled at troubleshooting" or "Quickly and accurately learn and perform" (missing a verb here) or "Strong team player". Yawn. That's super generic.

There's nothing about you in that, just puffery.

The front end engineer role is light on specifics. Sounds like you only know how to do a little jquery and did some UI design work.

[harsh remnant]

Me pursuing a CS degree and I’m washing dishes tomorrow at 8am - 12pm

[fringe sphinx]

aint gonna wash themselves

[true harness]

that's why they made dishwashers

[vapid jay]

Is there anything that is good about my resume that I should keep?

[gritty rivet]

The only part I would definitely eliminate or completely rewrite and shorten is the long paragraph near the top. It's a bunch of empty buzzwords with no apparent purpose.

[vapid jay]

Can I DM you?

[fringe sphinx]

This is not relevant to this channel, and it seems like advertising. Removed.

[topaz abyss]

python for networking?

like jobs?

[near ocean]

what does that mean

[harsh cradle]

Any suggestions on places to go to offer software development services as a freelancer? I'm currently trying Upwork and freelancer but I want to spread as wide as possible to reach as many people as I can

[neon marsh]

lets say I graduated 5 years ago and no tech job experience. And built bunch of coding projects and keeps going. Is it worth the hard work?

[summer roost]

graduated with what degree?

[neon marsh]

computer science

[summer roost]

what stopped you from getting a tech job at some point in the last 5 years? The job market in 2020 and 2021 was incredibly hot

interviewers are gonna be very curious about that. it's going to look strange to have gone 5 years after graduation without a job in the field

what have you been doing since graduating?

[true harness]

you could deliberately omit the graduation date...

[peak halo]

To be clear, is this a serious suggestion?

[true harness]

I've been recommended to do so by at least one recruiter at my last internship. personally I am against it, but the recruiter felt strongly about it. their rationale was avoiding age discrimination

[peak halo]

Aren't you still working on your bachelors?

[true harness]

yes. they meant after graduation

[peak halo]

I see.

[summer roost]

omitting the graduation date might be helpful for getting interviews, but I think you'll still need a rehearsed answer about what you've been up to career wise

I think it'd be pretty tough to convert interviews into offers without one. I think you'll definitely be asked about it.

[harsh cradle]

Any suggestions on places to go to offer software development services as a freelancer? I'm currently trying Upwork and freelancer but I want to spread as wide as possible to reach as many people as I can

[vapid jay]

Does experience trump education?

[smoky quest]

In the cases where that question gets asked: yes.

In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[grave acorn]

Can we do it together?

[exotic wasp]

Hello everybody, someone know if in france it exists some whatsapp group to ease the process finding work in IT? I work as a data Scientist but with 1y of experience it is tough to find a job

[grave acorn]

I'm from Ukraine, but I'm also looking for a job

[gritty rivet]

Other than Upwork and Fiverr, you can see some contract jobs on regular job sites like Indeed and LinkedIn. There are specialized platforms like gun.io but I have zero experience with any of that. Probably most important is to use your professional network

[pastel plinth]

can i start freelancing as a frech grade ? or it is imposble?

[gritty rivet]

I dunno what a frech grade is, but the less experience you have the harder it will be to get hired... Especially if you expect to make more than $3/hour

[crisp stream]

!res general
you can start learning even now, without any paid courses
there's tons of free resources on the internet like these ↓

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[shadow moth]

Should i be worried about AI stealing potential careers

[fringe sphinx]

Which careers?

[vapid jay]

I found a recruiter and hiring manager of an employer I appplied to, what should I say to them?

Its been 72 hours since I applied

[peak halo]

nothing. you've applied. if they're interested, they'll reach out to you.

[magic horizon]

yo anyone here, ive got a pretty srs question

[peak halo]

don't wait for a commitment: ask your question, and people will answer it when they visit this channel.

[magic horizon]

so see i have made a whole web application for my school's students which is meant to teach them skills through dedicated custom made roadmaps
the problem is that i need to make high quality content and stuff for them, i have 80 students already registered and i have to stay commited for the entire year
and as the cherry on top, i asked them to only pay roughly 1.5 dollar for the entire year for all the courses

[peak halo]

given the slow mode, be sure to ask your whole question all at once, in one message.

[peak halo]

so you're getting paid $120 to create and curate a curriculum for 80 students, for a whole year?

[peak halo]

if anyone has advice for how to interview effectively, I'd be interested to know.

[deft herald]

This is called learning the hard way

[deft herald]

What's your question though? There's no question in this message

[grim bane]

What's the easy way then?

[deft herald]

Someone tells you "don't undercharge for your time" and you take their adivce

[grim bane]

Imo, undercharging at the beginning is Best

[deft herald]

why?

[gray dragon]

Voce esta sendo grosso

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Is there a question?

[viscid marten]

Man, it seems like the second tech job is just as hard to get as the first one haha

[peak halo]

How many years of experience did you get at the first job?

Also, the market is cold right now.

[viscid marten]

As of now three so still pretty fresh to it.

[viscid marten]

Yea, I see a lot of people being laid off, and linkedin seems filled with applications so I'm starting to look elsewhere for job posts.

[smoky quest]

tbh, while there might be laid off, I do see a lot of hiring.
All the good candidates I talk to have multiple offers

[viscid marten]

In a lake of good candidates I'm a mediocre one! haha

That said I get what your saying though. A good dev is always in short supply and highly valued

[smoky quest]

It does not necessarily mean that either.

Successful job hunting has far more factors than just skill issues. For instance you could be the greatest engineer in the world, but if your resume hardly reflect that, you would still have issues with finding a job.

[fringe sphinx]

^ and most ppls resumes aren't written as well as they could be.

(thank goodness I haven't had to write a resume in a long time)

[viscid marten]

Yea, writing a good resume is pretty hard. Been toying with the idea of paying someone to make a good base resume.

[fringe sphinx]

this channel does give resume review / tips / etc.

post anonymized, if you like.

[smoky quest]

And then there is the interview step itself!
If you convey yourself as a mercenary, it will put off people. If you answer badly to behavioral questions, it might underline some issues in communication or maturity or growth mindset. And sometimes, the interviewer or interviewee just have a bad day 🙂

[viscid marten]

Oh, I didn't know that. I might do that here soon. 🤔

[smoky quest]

So that's why I encourage to see things like a sales funnel. Don't obsess over a specific company but try to see patterns over a funnel.
If you see 1 rejection, reasons could be anything. If you see a consistent trend of like 10/10 rejections at a specific step, then you can be confident there is a problem with you

[viscid marten]

Thats a good point. As of now my funnel has stopped at my resume. Is there a convenient way to A/B test a resume?

[smoky quest]

Spreadsheets 🙂

[thin hound]

im just starting out rn about learning python and i just want to know if there is anything i need to know before i get started

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[thin hound]

whats a cs degree?

[viscid marten]

Computer Science Degree

[fringe sphinx]

Are you asking a career quetsion or just "how do I learn python"?

[thin hound]

the latter

[smoky quest]

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/education/it-and-tech/computer-science-degree-guide/

[fringe sphinx]

Here's short list of popular tutorials:
https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
https://python.swaroopch.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@coreyms
https://www.youtube.com/@BroCodez
https://cs50.harvard.edu/python/2022/

[thin hound]

tysm

[fringe sphinx]

!res is a longer page with lots of stuff

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[viscid marten]

I don't want this to go super far off topic, but the best way to learn is try to build something(even if you know you'll fail).

[hidden bloom]

I have a degree from UK but am a citizen of USA and will be applying for grads jobs in america. However, my UK degree classifcation doesn't convert easily to GPA. So what am I meant to do when it asks for gpa in the application forms? Does anyone else have any issues with international degrees being recognised in the US?

[gritty rivet]

If there's a required field you simply cannot get around, I would put an estimated GPA. There are lots of guides online to how UK grades correspond

[vapid jay]

This is not encouraged?

I thought it was encouraged to connect to recruiter to help your chances get an interview

[gritty rivet]

If you're extraordinarily interested in the position it might not hurt to reach out. Don't be surprised if they ignore you though

[whole turret]

Guys I wanted to get some feedback on something
I am building a platform called codecall which allows developers to contribute code and get paid based on their contributions
I already have quite a few businesses that will list their projects with a prize pool of 5k-10k range on launch
Thing is I am mainly doing it for javascript related tasks
Would this be of interest for python as well? I am not too sure what type of businesses use python though (A.I. and date science mainly?)

[grave acorn]

No only, YouTube use Python…

for ability to work

[whole turret]

In what sense? Search algorithms?

[grave acorn]

Backend

[whole turret]

Is there alot of python code open source or is python mainly used for sensitive tasks?
I apologise if this is not the correct place to ask this question

I mean if you want to get a job for example are there many opportunities to contribute open source to showcase your skills like with front end technologies?

[grave acorn]

of course, just type python GitHub..

like the rest of the companies that use a programming language, there are open and closed sources

[whole turret]

Thanks will just check it that way

[wide arrow]

i wanna see what the python community thinks of its language

[smoky quest]

It's not a great way to engage with this community. Especially for such biased question

Would you expect to get any other answer than yes on a python server?

[wide arrow]

self vs outside perspective

[smoky quest]

How do you expect it to contribute to your career or career related discussions?

[wide arrow]

mb wrong chat

where could i ask

[fringe sphinx]

The three off topic channels, perhaps, but unsolicited polls are probably not going to get much engagement. Perhaps just ask a direct question

[cobalt moat]

i wouldnt say yes

[wanton birch]

Anyone here familiar with leetcode or neetcode?

I was thinking about using something like that to keep the habit of daily coding ongoing without jumping into one of my “projects”

[smoky quest]

it's cool and fun as a hobby. But that's like working out only a single muscle of your body rather than working out your whole body

[wanton birch]

It is not meant to be a project replacement. It is meant to keep me trying to solve problems from certain specific topics using languages of my choosing daily.

I was thinking that it might also give me some confidence should I ever get an interview for one of the cool stuff I end up applying for 😁

[smoky quest]

Sure. That doesn't change what I said. You are still only exercising a single muscle. If that's your goal, then great!

Though, if your projects don't involve algorithms, I would argue your projects are too simplistic

[trim crypt]

Restream has job openings if anyone is interested. I've used their service for my multiple stream channels to Twitch and Youtube.

My question is how and where would I start to learn more about WebRTC stuff? Seems so interesting

[harsh river]

does anyone have any good resources on differentiating between billable vs non billable time?

[fringe sphinx]

Why do you ask?

(Context matters because billable time to, say, a specialist consultant is different than a contractor)

[harsh river]

Context would be hourly contractor I guess

[fringe sphinx]

Full time?

[harsh river]

3 months

[fringe sphinx]

Ime, software contract work has a defined number of hours per week for full time work. Usually 40 hours. Lunch is typically not included, but somewhat depends on the company. Some companies closely monitor, but for SWE roles it's hard to really measure.

[harsh river]

yeah i'm sort of having a hard time categorizing everything, theres a few things where it's very clear cut imo, and then others where i'm like uh idk

[fringe sphinx]

Is this the new job?

[harsh river]

yes

[fringe sphinx]

For a full time type contract role, I wouldn't be too worried about accounting for your individual hours. I always billed in large blocks of time, and nobody ever asked for the specifics.

I would, though, keep good notes about what you accomplished each week

[devout zenith]

Keep customer happy

Working independently now

[harsh river]

so far they're happy and impressed indeed, but still, i'd rather err on the safe side and hear what people have to say

[fringe sphinx]

Less detail is better. Invoices (if you're invoicing) should be high level. If they don't like your performance, they're not going to audit your hours... they'll just fire you.

[harsh river]

Interesting

[chrome elbow]

any current or former cyber security workers have any tips for me i have a few questions like how much coding is used, what languages are used, what’s the job like , what degree you have an etc looking forward to learning a few things

[winter kraken]

I think you can use the internet to find out more about WebRTC stuff

[trim crypt]

Oh gee, how helpful

[winter kraken]

Your welcome, have a great day!

[lapis quartz]

Maybe silly question but does Pandas library essentially make learning sql not worth if I know python?

[smoky quest]

SQL would still be required as they both solve different use cases

[lapis quartz]

May I ask for examples? I was under the impression they did pretty similar things

[smoky quest]

Want to use postgres? need to use SQL.
Want to use django or flask? need to learn SQL
Want to use snowflake? need to use SQL

Limiting yourself to pandas is trying to travel around the world but having to use a translator for everything to pandas so you don't get stuck. These translators may not always be available or of great quality and will add more friction than directly speaking SQL

[lapis quartz]

This is really awesome thank you for your input

[keen wyvern]

many things utilize SQL under the hood. understanding how it works, and how to work with it would be very beneficial.

[granite sorrel]

Sorry for the super delayed response but yes, I have credits that equate to about 50% completion of a bachelors in CIS. I'm not currently enrolled becuase I had a baby recently, but now I'm between jobs and looking for a new job and checking out options for re-enrollment to finish

[true harness]

pandas lets you process stuff on one machine. it gives you a lot of control and freedom if you can fit data in memory. SQL can be used on larger data, stored in the cloud somewhere

[vital wyvern]

#cybersecurity message

[dreamy valley]

WRONG CHANNEL SRY

[noble shard]

so I started my computer science program a few days ago and I'm just wondering if you guys got any advice for what to do during the school year(my first semester's language is python and I am already in like a decent beginner level, i do have a small github portfolio but i'm wondering if y'all got any more advice to make the most of my program)

[fringe sphinx]

Hang out in #python-discussion and when they talk about something you dont know, ask questions or research.

[gritty rivet]

Never to soon to start thinking about and looking for internship opportunities, even though you probably won't be actually applying for a good while

[noble shard]

i heard canadian internship application starts later in the year as opposed to the american ones(i am willing to go to the US for internships cuz i like money tho)

[sour tree]

Hey I had a question. I have my hands on python pretty well. So, I wanted to ask if anybody knows what are the skills required along with python (I'm pretty aware about SQL) like if libraries then which one and something else which can be done.

I'm looking for python development job position for now

[buoyant seal]

Usually there are core software engineering skills, applyable to any software engineer needed being known
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample
Unit testing here is the most crucial for devs writing dozens, hundreds, millions of code lines application.
Without it it is not good at all.
This core software engineering subjects are all very well overviewed in Code Complete, what exists and essential about them

Besides that there is fluff of technologies depending on different job role.
For backend role it is usually:

• Django/Fastapi/Flask web framework
• use Django ORM/SQLAlchemy ORMs, having known raw SQL well for at least one db engine like Postgresql
• using Celery
• unit testing with pytest and ecosystem around
• some other fluff depending on needs, kafka, elasticsearch, AWS (the most heaviest fluff backend dev could know), docker
• being able to apply when needed authentificating stuff, payment gateway systems and etc
• add here Html/CSS/JS knowledge as obligatory at basic level eventually too
• eventually nice for python devs to get hang of typing with mypy/pyright

Very similar stuff for Data engineers as far as i am aware, web frameworks are just replaced with data engineering frameworks
Plus they have their own specifics in theory of stuff they need to know. and AWS may be more necessary for them to know perhaps

[gritty rivet]

There is a vast world of job openings where Python is a key skill. It is never the only skill.

I would study job listings in your local area to get a better sense of what you're missing

You can also share your resume here for feedback

There are Python related roadmaps on roadmaps.sh but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them without knowing more about where you're at and where you're trying to go

[buoyant seal]

https://roadmap.sh/ Fluff of technologies is very well mentioned in those roadmaps for different job roles.
They just do not have Core Software Engineering subjects mentioned there which u are obligated to know fot software engineering positions eventually too
Code Complete will be an excellent entrypoint to finding out what exists in Core Software Engineering subjects
Investment into those skills will be more useful as main priority because tech rapidly changes, theory of stuff remains stabely mostly the same through dozens of years

[crisp ginkgo]

can you guys think how much time it took me to solve or find approach to find the 3d circles

[fringe sphinx]

This is the career channel. Please delete the message and post on an appropriate channel. And, I have no idea what you're asking. #❓｜how-to-get-help if it's programming/python related.

[crisp ginkgo]

my bad

where is general chat i cant find it

@fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

!topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[lean harbor]

when workplaces ask for "experience working in python" are they referring to literal job experience as in working at a firm or just working on projects on your own for some amount of time?

[deft herald]

both

[lean harbor]

what's a good place to look if you have no firm experience but some coding experience building projects?

[fringe sphinx]

Tell us more? What education? Country? Etc

Other experience?

[true radish]

ha lo

[gritty rivet]

You never know who might give you a chance unless you try applying. But as BillyBobby is getting at, it's hard to give much specific advice without more info about your situation. Sharing anonymized screenshots of your resume for feedback might be helpful

[lean harbor]

@fringe sphinxecon degree bachelors, canada, 2 years of finance job experience
I just recently started learning python and am looking to break into entry level remote job

my goal is to just get so good at coding my lack of firm experience wont matter if my projects I present are that good but I am still kind of a noob so maybe this is a delusion

[gritty rivet]

I would build on your finance experience as much as possible. No point in starting your career over from scratch unless you absolutely hate finance.

Are there people at your current firm or others in your professional network who use Python in their work? Definitely talk to those people.

[lean harbor]

I hate finance lol my goal is a crypto related job that has something to do with trading, so it is finance adjacent but not like tradfi

[lean harbor]

it's a small mutual fund so our it dept is small and we barely interact with them, my coworkers don't know anything about coding apart from like vba stuff for excel

[buoyant seal]

I just recently started learning python and am looking to break into entry level remote job
for starting people it is far easier and acceptable to go office.
Remote work is in general not very available for juniors who are usually assumed require way more communicational contact

[fringe sphinx]

Finance firms have a lot of coding, even if you're not doing 'finance', try to find a way to use that as a bridge/stepping stone

[gritty rivet]

My advice would be similar... Find the people doing the work you want to be doing and ask them about how they got there. LinkedIn is good for this if you don't have existing connections.

[lean harbor]

@fringe sphinx@gritty rivetI also have like 7 years of experience as a pro trader with a track record of successful trading is that relevant?

[hidden crystal]

@pine sleet CHECK UR DMS

[white relic]

It's relevant for trying to get a job related to finance, even a coding job, since you presumably know the business.
Not so relevant for getting a coding job in another industry, which is why you are being advised to leverage your experience in finance any way you can.

Not sure what 7 years as a professional trader but only 2 years in a "finance job" means

[lean harbor]

trading my own money for myself, the finance job is literally just excel crunching stuff so some vba experience but really we didn't use it much

I'm looking for more stability with a career, my day job was mostly just because I was bored trading but I wanna actually do a career I am passionate in now

[white relic]

trading with your own money is not "pro" as I understand the term but ok

[lean harbor]

it is if you do it in a systematic way, making you no different from any fund
the term is bs though I know, but it's arbitrary hedge fund analysts are usually worse traders than successful retailers

[white relic]

Regardless I think the advice is the same. Leverage those connections and experience

[lean harbor]

how is it best to leverage it? just rely on financial experience on resume to differentiate you from other applicants?
I was thinking maybe do a cs degree online if it's available at my old school or is that a waste of time if I already have a degree?

[fringe sphinx]

What's your degree in?

[lean harbor]

I also have developed pine code strategies on trading view, although admittedly this was mostly done with chat gpt (lol) but the strategies do work well and have a track record I can prove of trading with real money successfully.

[lean harbor]

financial economics

[fringe sphinx]

I don't think anyone will be impressed by your track record, partly because every trader thinks every other trader is an idiot.

[white relic]

Whether you were successful or not is probably not important compared to the industry experience you can demonstrate.

[lean harbor]

lol well hard to argue with $ results no?
but you are right that is a thing in trader community

[white relic]

But you aren't trying to get a job as a trader

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, it's easy to argue with $ results 🙂

But regardless... many funds need financial types who can code and help with "too complex for spreadsheets" problems.

[lean harbor]

preferably something to do with trading automation actually is what I am looking for, but I wanna develop strategies for firms since this is what I'm good at
so I don't wanna be the trader, but I do wanna code trading strategies for firms if possible
I'd be interested in branching out to other things though I am still super new so I have maybe a naive expectation how the market works

[fringe sphinx]

I work with some of these types of people... usually finance backgrounds who are transitioning to technical roles (a lot of data skills, in particular)

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps go for a quant finance masters.

[gritty rivet]

A lot of Master's programs will let you in directly,. although you may need to fill pre-reqs. If you're very serious about being an SWE then a relevant degree is definitely not a waste

[fringe sphinx]

ie: https://lsa.umich.edu/stats/masters_students/mastersprograms/quantitative-finance-program.html

(just a random result)

[lean harbor]

what does the grind for a job look like for someone like me though? realistic time scenario for entry level position is prob like what a year?

I'm not looking for some glamorous position, a basic 60-70k a year job would do

[fringe sphinx]

no idea what you're asking

What job? What skills required? Do you get another degree first or not? etc. Too many variables.

[lean harbor]

fintech python focused job, no second degree, entry level

[fringe sphinx]

No idea. You just need to apply and find out.

Preferably build up your data skills first... ie: kaggle.com/learn at minimum.

[gritty rivet]

There was a time when I would say, sure, if you work really hard you could build a portfolio in one year to get an entry level SWE job. In this market, very little hope that will work.

Experience is gold. So are professional relationships. Don't start from the bottom up and throw away your biggest assets

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I think applying to financial data analyst roles would be a good first focus.

[lean harbor]

in terms of projects I can put on resume, are my trading view projects legitimate to put on github?

[white relic]

dowcet's advice to reach out to people who are doing what you want to do and ask them is probably the best you'll get.
Most of us are not in fintech and you want industry specific advice.

[lean harbor]

let's say I drop the fintech requirement and just any python job would do?

6 months is not realistic right? those youtube videos of getting swe job in 6 months are def bs I think no?

[gritty rivet]

Probably. But the way to think about this is 1) look at the roles you are applying to 2) look at the gaps in your resume 3) fill those gaps with projects that demonstrate the relevant skills for those roles

If your existing projects fit into this strategy, great

[fringe sphinx]

Def bs.

[white relic]

Well, then you have more jobs to choose from, but you're dropping the major thing that could be your competitive advantage over other candidates.

[fringe sphinx]

My rough guess is: I bet you could land a good finance-related but still coding role within a year, with moderate Python skills. I doubt you could land a good SWE role in that timeframe... although maybe catch a break.

[lean harbor]

the only thing is these projects are not very complex, it's in some cases like 25 lines of code
pretty sure that wouldn't be very impressive right? but the performance results to the strategies are good

[gritty rivet]

Another key point about projects.. if you're applying for a SWE job the skills that matter include things like documentation, tests, etc. Nobody cares what your project actually does, unless your projects are exactly aligned with the job. It's more about showing you can write clean, maintainable code, can think about design problems, etc.

[lean harbor]

haha ya I thought so, bros are saying no degree no experience at all in swe and say in 3-6 months you can get a job
outside of mad connections I imagine this is unheard of

[fringe sphinx]

influencers say all sorts of shit.

[lean harbor]

so the length or complexity of the code is not that relevant?

[fringe sphinx]

You're jumping between two topics: trading results vs SWE skills. If you want to demonstrate SWE skills, then a toy project with 25 lines of code isn't going to impress anyone.

[gritty rivet]

Not really... But I'd rather see one complex project than 5 tiny ones, all else being equal. Again it depends a lot on the role you're applying for

[lean harbor]

I see. I gtg rn but thanks for your help guys. Please excuse any noob questions I am still very new.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, hang out in #python-discussion and you'll learn something new every day.

[twilit portal]

This is actually very important, I'll need to keep this in mind

[unkempt zinc]

i do some javascript in my internship as the project uses it and i discussed about the project during the intership in both my portfolio and resume
however i didn include javascript in the section where i mention my skill as bcuz 1st idk how to work with javascript really well , 2nd really didnt like the language

[near birch]

"Indian IT jobs, the ones that involve maintenance, testing, and providing services, are still going to remain safe. But only for a few years.
Indian IT giants such as TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCLTech, and others, which arguably are still testing the waters of generative Al could soon be on the brink of emergency"

How far true is this people?

[true harness]

somehow va_rx always shows up when something finance related comes up 🕵️

6 months is not realistic right? those youtube videos of getting swe job in 6 months are def bs I think no?
i think it's reasonable if you have a good starting point. you have a degree, work experience already, and are already coding so you're definitely ahead of most people looking to get into swe
@lean harbor

[open ivy]

Is it true that the skills needed to get a Python job are very different than the skills needed on the job?

[fringe sphinx]

It's not true, nor is it false.

[open ivy]

So there is some overlap and a moderate level of difference. Which depends on the company (or department in the company, etc)

[fringe sphinx]

The skills you need are hard to predict, and vary wildly by job.

[buoyant seal]

As a general rule, skills needed to get Python job are usually the same as needed on the job.

The exception is Leetcoding trend. Usually this skill is only useful to get jobs and not needed at jobs.
Commonly highly asked in over big corps thinking they are Google.
Has increased chance to be asked for Data Satanists.
Commonly asked for the sake of easy automation of tasks related to it and easy receivable metrics about it.

[vital acorn]

Maybe it depends on the projects you get

[open ivy]

Maybe the stories about skilled people interviewing poorly and not getting a job are overblown?

They may just be using a bad approach (spamming resumes, many interviews are fake, etc).

[fringe sphinx]

There's so many levels to this. There's also some topics we learn in CS that you'll likely never directly use, but that the journey of learning helped you develop other skills.

[open ivy]

I do think a bit of undergrad-level theory that is not directly applicable is still useful. Such as Turing machines, etc.

Also, it is a break from actually working on code. Very few people can code all day everyday, and those who can often get tunnel vision.

[vital acorn]

The job is a scam nowadays, companies play with our minds and emotions they are not going to hire us, just to increase their hiring data they make us stand for one position which is fake

[fringe sphinx]

The stories you hear online are often sensationalized. Take them with a grain of salt.

anecdotally, the job seekers who've asked for resume help here all seem to land interviews fairly quickly.

but, it all starts with: a good resume, good interview prep, and good skills.

[static saffron]

Just got a job offer, I'm 19 self taught and most of my projects are private with some articles written about them, what do I do ? and how can I write a resume?

I am kind of panicing so I do apologise...

[smoky quest]

What do you mean by job offer? Do you mean an inquiry?

[near ocean]

Usually you write the resume before you get the offer lol

[static saffron]

im a soldier, someone from the reserves works in Kaltura and he just came up to me and offered me a position, he just messaged me today saying he got the CEO to agree, said all I need is a resume for a shot at this and I had no idea he was serious until he sent me a message.

[open ivy]

Sounds like an interview offer.

[peak halo]

I think you might be confused about some terminology. This might also be a scam.

Did you apply to the position? How did you apply if you don't have a resume?

[static saffron]

ik he said position, his words not mine and hes acting as if the resume is a formality

[peak halo]

If someone messaged you on a website like LinkedIn saying that they want to hire you for a full time position, and you never applied to that position, it's probably a scam, or an undesirable position.

And by "hire" I mean hire you directly. Not "proceed with an interview process"

And if they mean "invite you to apply", then they shouldn't even need to talk to the CEO about that.

[static saffron]

I work with him, hes in the reserves and im a soldier in mandatory service, he offered me the position after knowing me for over a year

im sure it isnt a scam and I know the guy, hes legit and very accountable as we work in the same building.

all I need is an example of a resume or some recommendations

[fringe sphinx]

See templates like: #career-advice message or #career-advice message

[static saffron]

ty

[fringe sphinx]

You can post here for anonymized review. Resumes are hard to get right the first try.

[fringe sphinx]

Are you active or reserves?

[static saffron]

active

currently on base doing a 48 shift

[fringe sphinx]

How would you start a job then?

[static saffron]

I want it to be part time, or even just an internship to start

plus its mandatory so legally speaking I can get a job.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh you're not US.

[static saffron]

nope

[hidden bloom]

could i put a project where i technically pirate mp3's by converting them from youtube through sketchy websites? technically its not illegal on my cv?

[buoyant seal]

Not very good to have indeed in your resume. U will attract only bad attention with it.

[hidden bloom]

but its for personal use to download on my old ipod its not for redistribution

[fringe sphinx]

That doesn't make it OK.

[open ivy]

It's a bad idea. The main effect is to repel employers, not the legal risk. Personal-use piracy is not exactly a serious crime. But it does not look good on a resume.

Can you take your code and know-how and make another web-based project that is innocent?

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, I wouldn't. But you can probably recycle what you learned for clean, boring resume projects.

[fast fossil]

why boring? spice it up a bit (not with piracy )

[radiant pilot]

I've been studying PYTHON for over 7 years now. I have certificates from many Bootcamps and W3 schools. I have now semi-retired and I'd like to find some part time REMOTE work in Python. Maybe data cleaning or such. Is this a realistic goal? If so, what would be the best way to get started looking toward landing this type of work? I'm in USA, Florida and have done Python in WIndows, Mac, Raspberry Pi as well. Thanks for your tips.

[vapid jay]

Bro, what?

[vapid jay]

Instructions unclear, so I used piracy.

[gritty rivet]

If you have any sort of professional network, I would try to find projects that way

You can have a look at places like Upwork and Fiverr but you'll see the competition is ridiculous to the point that it's virtually impossible for anyone trying to make more than $3/hour

[radiant pilot]

Agreed, and I'll bag groceries then I guess. I have over 40 years in the computer industry and have done many jobs in the business in those years. The last 25 years as a IT Director for a Billion dollar company. I have done data center and VDI and stroage architecture as well as application programming in C# .Net, ASP .Net, JAVA, SQL. I also did 7 years of self paced Mobile programming in ANDROID and iOS. MANY Bootcamps there as well. The same story. The world is a big place and some are willing to work for less than 10.00 US an hr. They can have that GIG. With all the schools PUSHING Programming as the new Job Frontier in the US, and Python as the language...I just need a 20hr side gig. Is that too much to ask? Hummm, maybe so. My first serious class in PYTHON was with MIT. I thought having that credential might help, nope.

[open ivy]

If I am willing to pay 20/hr, can I get super-duper good programmers on Fiverr?

I mean if 3/hr buys decent talent, I imagine that 20/hr would buy amazing skills.

[near ocean]

3/hr buys 3/hr talent

[radiant pilot]

I agree.

[open ivy]

So maybe Fiverr is actually an OK place to get paid a decent wage if you are experienced?

[pine sleet]

pretty sure super duper good programmers 1) aren't on fiverr 2) will not work for $20/hr

[fleet reef]

$20 is $20

[open ivy]

Do you think Fiverr is a decent way to make money for programmers with several years of experience who have trouble getting a full-time job?

[pine sleet]

i think your primary goal there should be to figure out why it is you're having trouble getting a full time job

[open ivy]

I was not doing much networking.

[radiant pilot]

I am semi-retired, not looking for a 9-5. Just a side gig to suppliment income. Trying to pay the bills.

[pine sleet]

the first step to fixing something is to identify the problem, the next is to remedy that :) you can start networking any time. there's no restrictions to it

get in touch with your university or school friends, see what they're up to. talk to coworkers from previous jobs, do the same thing. never eat lunch alone, all that

[open ivy]

I wonder how good game jams are to meet new people?

[true harness]

you could try talking to some people in your network and working as a contractor

[open ivy]

I do wonder what are some ways to make new friends online, who have a fair amount of experience.

That is a useful way to network if it can be done properly.

[hidden crystal]

@pine sleet check ur msgs

[gritty rivet]

Why only online? Meetups and conferences are almoat everywhere and they're valuable

That said, one way people connect by doing things. Contribute to open source projects. That doesn't even necessarily mean coding if you're skills are truly not there yet

LinkedIn in is also a good place to connect with mentorship. You can search to find people in your local area or who you have other things in common with but who are just a little ahead of you in the journey

[open ivy]

I do wonder if they have "open source game jams" where an open source project will host sessions where people get in groups and work on things.

[gritty rivet]

https://medium.com/@jonathanallengrant/the-7-best-websites-to-find-a-hackathon-the-hacklife-guide-3e420f2a565b

[open ivy]

Ineresting

[vapid jay]

Hy

[pulsar breach]

Does anyone need a mod here if you need just DM me

[fringe sphinx]

What?

[pulsar breach]

I mean does anyone need a modder here

[buoyant seal]

#roles message procedure for that here is more complicated

[dawn cape]

hey

[vapid jay]

Anyone here quantum tech and bcs aspirant?

[pastel thunder]

Does Microsoft sponsor masters degree for Microsoft research fellowship position employees?
If so what are the terms and conditions involved?

[grave acorn]

I’m looking for it too…

[white relic]

Bardeen-Cooper-Schreiffer theory is certainly a valuable thing to master if you aspire to a career in superconducting quantum systems

[vapid jay]

No it's brain cognitive science

[tropic ferry]

Hi everyone, I hope you're doing well! I wanted to ask if it's okay to post a small paid job here. I don't love working via Fiverr and such, and i usually expect the best guys and girls always to be around on discord servers. I don't expect it to be much work, guess for many experienced coders fairly trivial. Let me know if that's okay to post here 🙂 Thanks

"Rule 9
Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind."

[analog oriole]

what are entry lvl roles for AI, how can i show my skills?

[tropic ferry]

well, nevermind 🥲

[golden jetty]

How much knowledge do i need to land a volunteering position/unpaid internship? Is it possible to land one at 17 years of age (not in uni yet)?

I want to get a grasp of what its like to work as a developer and some experience

[peak halo]

entry-level roles for AI typically have a bachelors in CS as a hard requirement, and often prefer a masters. You can show your skills by enrolling in a CS program and contributing to AI research.

[fringe sphinx]

Finding opportunities is probably the hard part. Not a lot of HS intern positions but if you hustle, network (friends of friends, friends of family, etc), and ask around you might find someone.

[grim bane]

Bro, seems like we are in a same boat, lemme know if you find one as well

[grim bane]

Do you have any names for any CS programs(preferably free)

[peak halo]

I'm talking about a degree from a college/university. you might live in a country where university educations are taxpayer-funded. but in general, you have to take out student loans to pay tuition.

[grim bane]

Fr bro, it's really expensive to pay tution here unless you are from some minority caste

[peak halo]

Sorry I don't have better news.

[grim bane]

That's why I'm tryna do some freelancing web development, that's the plan

[peak halo]

I was answering a question about starting a carrer in AI.

[grim bane]

I wanna do a career in AI, but my current financial condition won't help me to do so, hence freelancing Web Dev is good for now imo. Are there any good freelancing options for Teenager like mem Which is related to AI??

[peak halo]

Sorry, but there are not any.

[grim bane]

So, blog writing or web dev are my only options ig, which will get me started asap

[weak turret]

Hey guys who still is unemployed

[muted night]

🫠

[golden jetty]

its so shit man, finding an unpaid internship is near impossible, finding a job is next level

[golden jetty]

technically i am a freshman, slightly easier but it is still near impossible

[fringe sphinx]

Join clubs, invest in your network.

[muted night]

Your resume sucks

[peak halo]

perhaps you could have found a more constructive way to say this?

[summer ingot]

I’m 3rd year computer science student, can anyone suggest me , Now what’s the best for me ,….?

[near ocean]

Why do you want an unpaid position and why do you think that would help you later in life?

I might be the weird one for this but in my mind if youre not getting paid thats a red flag, this isnt open source stuff

[plush summit]

have you done internships?

[summer ingot]

No . … just cmplt 2 unpaid online internship

[plush summit]

oh and what about open soucre contrubution on big projects?

[golden jetty]

coding clubs?

[golden jetty]

jokes on you, I dont have one

[summer ingot]

I’d look for some python development projects to start contributing and learning

[golden jetty]

so that i can put it on my resume, in order to have some sense how things are done (meeting, probelms, team work), its a way to get guidance,

[fringe sphinx]

Any club, tbh. The goal is to meet and know people; your career is more than just applying some skills.

Clubs are a good chance to learn other things, even if it's something unrelated to tech.

[ocean kraken]

hello, guys where can we self promote our github

[peak halo]

Not on this server.

[celest comet]

bro yall listen

im new in this shit any suggestions for future?

[peak halo]

practice writing lots of code.
get a computer science degree so that you have the most opportunity and earning potential.

[celest comet]

i am first year student new in this coding world ?
python has more scope or java>

[peak halo]

python and java are both widely used. if you don't yet know what kind of developer you want to be, it would be worthwhile to have a working knowledge of both.

but if you end up as a web developer where it's python in the backend and javascript (which is completely unrelated to Java) on the frontend, knowing Java won't help you in itself.

[near ocean]

You can do those things and also get paid what youre worth

[fringe sphinx]

If you lock in -now-, you'll do great. Take learning seriously, do projects, join clubs/network, etc. Don't wait till 4th year to think about getting good.

The language isn't the important part, as long as you're applying skills.

[fierce apex]

👆

[near ocean]

Oops, chat scrolled

[buoyant seal]

Technically Java has more pure software engineering scope, it can do backend, desktop and moblile development
Python has plenty of scope in itself too though, popularily used for backend, devops engineering, data science and ML stuff.

Java is very very corporate world language, if people wish long term solution for banking or other fintech, or just some quality stuff, Java can be pickled.
Python can do it all too, it just has... a different style to its programming, and set of limitations u will be dealing with. (more often picked by startups though)

I would recommend trying both until u made big enough projects and managed to define for yourself what u like more.

====

What i can warn here? Python is easy language to start but hard to master. It can help to be productive from a start, at the cost of rapidly accumulated tech debt later, which can be fought but only to certain limit.
Java language is harder to master, but can be way more pleasant to use if you need writing thousands, dozens thousands, hundreds thousands code lines code. Where python will be randomly failing on runtime for no one knows which reason unless u wrote unit tests to validate its quality at least somewhat, java has a good chance to be working correct on a first try to run it.

Plenty of people genuienly like Python Unlimited Freedom more, as it more suits their style of programming, and for them to be more productive.
Other plethora of people can be genuinely liking Java language to do things in the field with way more restrictions, for achieving quality that is auto validated for them.

=====

So my advice is picking language u like more (and hate less 😅 )
And make sure you will learn unit testing very throughly in depth regardless of the chosen language.
It is very crucial aspect for sanity of a dev. Local rapid feedback for quality of your program matters.

[muted night]

For sanity lmao

[royal galleon]

Are you a developer?

[royal galleon]

you told too much

[royal galleon]

Great idea

[ocean kraken]

I'm everything.

[royal galleon]

Great thing

[fleet reef]

You're late
Here's a demerit

[royal galleon]

..

[grim bane]

Freelancing seems the only option, or maybe a startup(?)

[muted night]

Do certificates help in getting jobs

Should I mention them in resume

[fringe sphinx]

What cert and what job?

[muted night]

intro & advanced programming mooc cert
just any entry level job related to the subject matter tbh 💀
whatever pays the bills

[fringe sphinx]

Programming certs don't mean much for programming jobs

[muted night]

what else can I do then

[fringe sphinx]

What experience or level of education do you have?

[muted night]

0 experience
bachelors degree in cs ||it's not proving useful cuz dont have good gpa||

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

[muted night]

man i've been grinding on the cert, i am cooked

[fringe sphinx]

You could post your resume for review.

Anonymized

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the most common and path of least resistance with the most opportunities and compensation

[muted night]

as I said
#career-advice message

[muted night]

sure

[smoky quest]

Alright, then it means you don't stand out comparing to the thousands of other applicants

[muted night]

||south asia||

[muted night]

i'm aware

[smoky quest]

yeah. And so you can't compare intro certs which take a few weeks to complete with your degree which took years to get

[muted night]

okay so what else can I do

no hope?

[smoky quest]

As asked above, show your anonymized resume so we can see better what we are dealing with

[muted night]

alright

[fringe sphinx]

Job searching is very country specific, but several things you can do: 1. Prepare the best resume you can. 2. Network: talk to friends, family friends, etc... never have lunch alone... it's the best path to a job. 3. Practice your skills and be able to demonstrate them. 4. Broaden your knowledge: watch PyCon/Europython videos or other tech conferences

[muted night]

I also have a cert in python which is not mentioned here

[harsh river]

where did you get the cert from?

[muted night]

did that

[muted night]

UoH mooc

[pine sleet]

whats a mooc

[muted night]

A massive open online course or an open online course is an online course aimed at unlimited participation and open access via the Web.```

[pine sleet]

i see

its probably not that valuable for swe then

[muted night]

yea billy & recursive told me

[tight parcel]

Same boat as you brother
Same gpa
But from a tier 1 uni
Eee

[muted night]

no job?

[tight parcel]

Yep
Not that I’ve even applied tbh

[muted night]

u have some other plans?

[tight parcel]

I been learning dsa and stuff for a while and solving leetcode

[whole wolf]

guys

[muted night]

its kinda useless, they dont even call me for interviews 💀

[whole wolf]

is mosh's exercises so hard or its cuz i cant understand his course well cuz its in english?

[tight parcel]

Bro I’ve known people with a shitteier resume and they applied to like a 1000 roles

[fringe sphinx]

Ignoring the layout and stuff, the resume is somewhat scattered. It's not clear what your strength is... you know a little c, a little python, etc.

[muted night]

yes thats true

[fringe sphinx]

You might want to prepare a web dev version, a Python dev, etc. And show multiple relevant projects for each.

[tight parcel]

They heard back from 1-3
Companies and got hired ,
My plan is just to be at a competitive level at what I do , get referrals and apply like a madman everywhere

[muted night]

lol good luck

[muted night]

so i'm cooked either way

[fringe sphinx]

What?

[muted night]

just making a new resume will make an impact?

[fringe sphinx]

I gave you several things that you can do.

[muted night]

• make separate resume

is all I remember

[fringe sphinx]

This

[muted night]

thats very vague

[fringe sphinx]

What is?

[muted night]

my degree is over, i dont have no friends anymore i'm freeloading at home

[tight parcel]

Is solving a good number of leetcode questions and stuff good?

[fringe sphinx]

Good for what?

[muted night]

like prepare the best resume? How

what else am I supposed to do?
cant get hired anywhere so no experience
GPA will remain shitty
no networking in my life now
certs are useless
leetcode/competitive-coding profiles are useless

[tight parcel]

Does it have weightage if I highlight my profile to employers online

[fringe sphinx]

I doubt it, but it'll help with OAs Im sure

[muted night]

#career-advice message

[tight parcel]

What tier college did you get your degree from though

[muted night]

it was a good college probably between tier1 and tier 2

[tight parcel]

Matters in certain countries

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not a therapist. I can tell you; network, refine your resume, keep practicing, and broaden your knowledge.

[muted night]

thats kinda useless advice

everyone knows these vague terms

[fringe sphinx]

I gave you specific things to do to your resume. Beyond that, it doesn't sound like you are networking, practicing or broadening your knowledge.

[muted night]

i am studying python regularly as i already said

since more than one month probably

[fringe sphinx]

Your projects don't show that.

[muted night]

yeah bcz thats my out-of-college resume

i've been in python for only 1 month or so

[whole wolf]

guys is this course good?

[true harness]

no

[whole wolf]

im just done with the youtube tutorials

[whole wolf]

why not

@true harness

[true harness]

python 2

[whole wolf]

is this good then?

thats not the whole course in the ss

[pine sleet]

i dont think it's that useful but i guess if it's free it doesn't really matter

[whole wolf]

idc about the certificate for now, i want to know if its worth to learn

[deft pelican]

Looks like it had some nice courses

[versed quarry]

you have a typo in railway ticket reservation system

you wrote availabilty

[white relic]

good eye

[muted night]

Bruh that's the least of my worries 💀

[versed quarry]

Im gonna be real i havent worked in a professional setting and I dont hire people, but this resume is kinda boring

like you explained how it works here

I doubt the people hiring care about how exactly it works
just write the buzzwords and say how good your code is idk

[white relic]

Yeah I also wouldn't go into that level of detail in your résumé

[versed quarry]

like lets take this, even just using the word "script" makes it sound unprofessional. call it a module or package

[white relic]

But buzzword oriented résumés can be uninteresting too.

[versed quarry]

you also want some fancy stats i think
like say you built a fault tolerant university database system capable of handling thousands of users on a single monolith server

[versed quarry]

im not saying he should spam every buzzword but buzzwords are important bcuz hiring people are going to be looking for a spesific kind of person

no promotion here

and also, you may want to maybe only specialize in one thing? like this is a very broad resume

[white relic]

If one is struggling to give their résumé a coherent narrative, adding more buzzwords is more likely to harm than help, IMO.

[versed quarry]

maybe you're right, again, I haven't worked in a professional setting

[fleet reef]

!rule ad paid
Despite being against the rules regardless, this is blatantly false

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[pine sleet]

conservation of information:

[versed quarry]

why add economics in a resume for swe

[true harness]

is that every course you've taken. that's not "key" courses, that's just courses 🥴

[smoky quest]

Any Introduction to class is not worth highlighting. It implies this is a tough achievement you are proud of, which implies basic stuff is really difficult for you

[fast fossil]

@muted night ^

[vapid jay]

For thousands of years I laid dormant, WHO DARES DISTURB MY SLUMBER?!

[true harness]

course titles are weird. the machine learning course i'm taking is technically called "foundations of machine learning", but it's comparable to courses at other schools that are just called "machine learning". though i would agree that for lower level courses, that is probably true

[smoky quest]

bro, my course title says "Introduction" but I swear it's so deep it's like the advanced ones of any other school

[true harness]

bannable imo

[smoky quest]

yep, hence -> reject

[true harness]

you can find tons of examples of course titles just being oddly named, regardless of school

[smoky quest]

That's the candidate's problem

[white relic]

recursive is right. inconsistent course names are (one reason) why one should be careful about putting courses on their résumé

[smoky quest]

tbh, I would limit the classes to something you really want to highlight and is not part of the commonly taught classes. Learning about C, OOP or database is something pretty much everyone will learn.
Learning about distributed systems, or signal processing, not so much, especially if they are specialization/

You don't want to get into the "calculus 2 vs calculus 3" rabbit hole

[true harness]

i agree. imo skip any core course, and only include relevant electives

[wanton birch]

Any of you know how one is supposed to leetcode for prep for coding interviews?

Tried out a few and turns out I am slow as fuck! Was embarassing 😦

[gritty rivet]

How? By practicing the problems mostly.

If you're struggling even with the easy ones, take some time to study the solutions

[smoky quest]

Practicing is great!
But it's also a lot efficient if you understand what you are practicing. Reading a book on DSA like https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262046305/introduction-to-algorithms/ can go a long way as you will understand better DSA and therefore be more fluent with these exercises

[wanton birch]

Theory isn't the problem. I am taking way too long to solve the problems. Maybe I just have to force myself to problem solve these things as frequently as possible for as long as possible and the penny will drop fast enough for me to feel confident.

[peak halo]

I think people overstate the frequency and difficulty of leetcode-style questions in interviews to sell courses.

"you paid 100k for your CS degree, but your career is doomed if you don't spend $200 on my 'hacking the coding interview' course!!!"

[wanton birch]

I don't have a CS degree. So I am hoping to discuss theory, previous work and hopefully pass any live coding demo they want to test. Doing my best to prep.

[peak halo]

What is your plan for getting interviews?

[wanton birch]

The positions I am looking for requires other skills like physics, mathematics, engineering, research background etc all of which I do have. An ideal example is an R&D position I actually applied for at a tech company (makes engineering simulation tools). They emphasised C++ and DSA.

[smoky quest]

Theory is a problem if takes you too long. It would be super fast and easy if the theory was not a problem

[deft pelican]

I got a short python script printed on paper for my first interview "tell me what this does".
For my second interview I don't remember doing any coding st all. 🤔

[vapid jay]

Hi I am new

[copper yarrow]

I am opening a group for an organization which we will do devops upon it. I am torn whether github org or gitlab teams is better for the long term? we are expecting atleast 5-10 people in this, and upon further research there is some features that github has that gitlab dont and vice versa. But in your experience do you have any particular preferences between the two GIT (assuming we are only on Free plan)

[deft pelican]

I only used gitlab professionally as a dev, not devops. I like it. Use issues, boards, Merge requests (reviewing) and wikipages.
I don't do devops and I've only used Github to store my personal code.

[copper yarrow]

ahh i see

Well we just opened a poll based on people's preferences, and we chose github as a consensus

[grave acorn]

Can I join to your team?

[deft pelican]

Reasonable approach 👍

[keen rapids]

Should I be an ideal python 3.12

[safe idol]

hey

i am actually a django developer, but seeing the growth of javascript, i guess learnind js is more effective than django

what are your views on it?

[grave acorn]

it's like comparing black and soft. js in most cases is needed for the frontend, django only for the backend, for this you should choose which of the ways you like better

[digital fjord]

you should probably know both to some extent

[vapid jay]

Hey guys,

I have a 12 month contract for a part-time job where I only work for 2 hours a day, meaning I literally have a full year that I can use to become a developer. (cleaning, construction, degrading jobs that leave me pretty depressed when I get home, but that motivates me to study harder)

I was wondering what are the chances of getting hired for an entry level position in software development within 12 months, if I study for around 8-10 hours a day and build my portfolio?

I know a little bit of C and Python already
(Finished Harvard's CS50, wrote my own little games in PyGame, wrote a few little scripts for Penetration testing).

I also have the CompTIA A+, although not related to development, hopefully it's gonna look nice on the resume since I don't have a degree.

btw. I'm located in Germany
Any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated!

[grave acorn]

but if we are talking about the frontend and not pure JS

[gritty rivet]

Long shot a few years ago, probably not possible anymore

Without a degree, you could finish the trifecta (A+/Net+/Sec+) and be a reasonable candidate for help desk/ general IT support. Even with just the A+ it's worth applying. Actual experience with that work might help you become a developer eventually, but the certs themselves will not

[white relic]

What field? If you have an applied physics or engineering background and you're getting asked to do leetcode interviews, that sounds like a little bit of a disconnect

[vapid jay]

Okay so HelpDesk really can't be skipped without a degree

Even if I had a good portfolio?

[white relic]

(Many) people with degrees also have good portfolios

[vapid jay]

Im aware, what would you do if you were in my shoes?

[white relic]

Is this an early career or mid-career pivot? Basically, how old are you?

For most people, the path of least resistance and greatest opportunity is to get a degree. Is that possible for you?

[vapid jay]

25

[vapid jay]

Not anymore, I wouldnt get accepted and even if I did I can't live like this anymore

[white relic]

In that case, the best thing you can do is what you're already planning to do: study and make projects that can demonstrate your skills without a degree. But it may well take longer than 12 months, and you need to be open to help desk, qa, and other less glamorous jobs in the meantime.

It is possible you may get lucky and land on entry level coding job in the next year, but without a degree, it's unlikely.

[fringe sphinx]

(and I just realized trentj just said the same thing... so just ^) My usual advice is: consider aiming for a SWE adjacent role like QA or Help Desk... something where technical skills are appreciated, and you get closer to your goal. And, start networking now - talk to friends / freidsn of friends / family friends / etc - try to find someone who needs help and will give you a shot.

[vapid jay]

I guess I could build my portfolio for 9-10 months, and then the last 2-3 months start applying for HelpDesk, and once in HelpDesk, I could continue coding after work

(If I don't get a tech job within 12 months, I will have to start degrading 9-5s again like cleaning and stuff)

[fringe sphinx]

Part of prepping for QA / Help Desk roles is learning other than coding. Build a broad applied background: linux, shell scripting, cloud computing, networking. Maybe also read about software development, testing, CI/CD, cybersecurity, etc. Breadth over depth.

[vapid jay]

Thankfully I'm already prepared for HelpDesk- CompTIA A+ certified, 1 year of practice in hackthebox and tryhackme, Active Directory home lab

[fringe sphinx]

That's great. Sounds like you're doing the right things!

[vapid jay]

Trying my best! But since I have 1 year of free time, I'd like to try and skip HelpDesk

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, that's a good plan... aim high

QA is also a good role too, closer to development.

[vapid jay]

I wont have that free time once im HelpDesk.. so now I can focus on building some software/apps

[vapid jay]

Is QA and HelpDesk equally difficult to land?

[fringe sphinx]

It's difficult to say because there's many levels to both. QA ranges from pushing buttons (manual testing) to full software engineering.

[vapid jay]

I see

[wanton birch]

As I said, the company makes engineering software and wants R&D engineers to document, debug, improve and innovate their products. They say you need to know languages like C# or C++ and have a strong understanding of DSA.

You need both the engineering/physics/maths background (which I do) and that programming thing crucial to their products development.

@smoky quest thanks for the book recommendation earlier

[fringe sphinx]

MIT OCW has some great advanced DSA courses/videos too.

[covert parcel]

damn you are really smart

[jaunty comet]

Binary

??

[gritty rivet]

If your portfolio is amazing, you're great at networking with people... You never know. But you could easily spend a year and still not be employable as an SWE.And the people I know who pulled it off when that was more common all tried to go back and get their degrees because it's so necessary to advance beyond entry level

If you're that serious about SWE, you should get a degree

[wanton birch]

Not really! I know a crap tonne of people in similar fields who make me look like a cockroach in comparison.

But I do hope I can keep improving. Even if I never get the interview, DSA is fun and interesting to me.

[covert parcel]

lol those people are everywhere, but you know more than me, the only thing I know is math and physics 😂 I know nothing about engineering

[wanton birch]

Are you trying to pivot to software engineering coming from a Physics background?

[covert parcel]

nope 😅 I'm just learning python on the side honestly, but I'm doing pretty well

[wanton birch]

So no plans of a software career?

[covert parcel]

I have plans of making a few games that are simulations

[vapid jay]

Can't really get a degree so the best thing I can do is build a portfolio and if I don't land a job by the end of 2025 then I'll get a HelpDesk job and keep coding after work.

[desert moth]

Sorry for bothering. I am ukrainian programmer and kind of new to discord to navigate myself. What is proper way to get job position across board?

[near ocean]

There are no jobs offered on this server, its against the rules

[celest comet]

;0

[haughty forum]

Are there any other tech fields where it's easier to get a job since junior s.eng prospects are pretty bad right now?

[fringe sphinx]

Who says junior swe prospects are bad?

But, to answer your question: tech is a big industry. There are many jobs, from systems engineering to QA to Ops to IT that are available for CS grads.

[haughty forum]

Hardly anyone I graduated with can get a job.

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

[haughty forum]

Canada

[fringe sphinx]

Hmm, I've heard a few ppl from Canada complaining... I don't know that market very well. US companies are hiring tho... it takes some time to land the job, but people are finding work.

[fringe sphinx]

But, consider systems engineering (somewhere between sales & consulting & engineering)

[haughty forum]

Oh, wow. I've considered leaving so thats good to know there's at least some jobs across the border.

[fringe sphinx]

What's your degree in?

[haughty forum]

Thanks I'll look into that.
Plain Software Engineering.
I'm studying AI privately though.

[true harness]

AI does typically require more education than most software dev jobs

[fringe sphinx]

fwiw, I think a broad technical skill set should be the first goal... rather than specialization. Github, Cloud, Linux, Testing, CI/CD, etc all will help you present yourself as a ready-to-work engineer.

[haughty forum]

Yes it does. I've been considering my masters in data & ai. I'm not sure yet. I'll see how things go within the year if I can't find work. I'm studying for myself for now.

[vapid jay]

If I wanna become a Software Dev and I finished CS50 and learned C and Python, what are the next steps I should take?

[smoky quest]

What's your situation?

[vapid jay]

@smoky quest here

Yeah I'm completely lost man, the job description mention like 5 different languages

I have no idea where to start

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.
In 12 months, it's not likely you will develop yourself enough to be competitive with entry level engineers who graduated.

A typical point of entry for self taught engineers is frontend as it's an easier entry point, so focusing on javascript/html/css.

[vapid jay]

Am I gonna use JS/html/css in Software development?

or are you saying to go for Web development first

[smoky quest]

I am saying that self taught entry route is very crowded and it will be difficult to become a software dev in 12 months on your own.
And so I suggest to look at easier entry point with less opportunities and compensation such as frontend, or QA or peripheral jobs.

[summer roost]

Web development is a type of software development. It's the type of software development that tends to be easiest for someone without a degree to break into. The roles tend to require a lower skill level and less depth of expertise than backend roles do

[vapid jay]

Got it, I just thought that JS/html/css is only used for web dev

[vapid jay]

I see, I did enjoy making a website, but I've read that web development is gonna be the first replaced by AI and that its already happening

[smoky quest]

This is part of the "lower opportunities". The lesser qualified the job, the easier it is to replace with AI(generally speaking)

[vapid jay]

Yeah.. I would be happy to get into web dev but can't take that risk of being replaced

[smoky quest]

not gonna happen in 12 months, and to be honest, you don't have choice.

So I would use it as an entry point so that you can then develop yourself further rather than a job to hold for the rest of your career

[vapid jay]

Thats a good idea, how hard would it be to transition from Web Dev to Software Dev later?

[smoky quest]

Another thing that might be of interest is the "jack of all trade automation". Companies can benefit from someone who help automating and scripting tons of random things.
So depending on what your 2h /day job is, you could spend some time automating things for them and then transitioning as an automation/dev full time for them

[smoky quest]

More likely than starting from nothing. Can't quantify it

[robust wharf]

Hello everyone, I'm a beginner in Python and I'm interested in finding part-time jobs related to Python. Any advice or leads would be greatly appreciated!

[smoky quest]

It depends on your situation 🙂

[summer roost]

these two things go hand in hand, though. It's the easiest area for you to break into because it's the area that requires the least skill. It's the easiest area for developers to be displaced by AI for exactly the same reason.

[vapid jay]

Im seeing that JavaScript is used in both Web Dev and Software Dev so I guess there would be some skills I would take from web dev and apply them to software dev

[robust wharf]

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by that

[smoky quest]

Languages are just tools, like a screw driver. It's normal for a professional engineers to know many of them

[smoky quest]

There is no one size fit all advice. So the advice would differ depending on your situation

[vapid jay]

I guess if I could transition to Software Dev before Web Dev will be obsolete that could work out

[smoky quest]

Well, there is one size fit all advice:

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[summer roost]

yeah, you should definitely expect that, even after getting a job in industry, you'll have a lot of learning to do to catch up even to fresh CS graduates. Getting a job wouldn't be the finish line.

[robust wharf]

hmm

[vapid jay]

Okay then I guess thats my best bet? getting into Web Dev first and then learning Software Dev

[summer roost]

if you can't get a degree, or an apprenticeship, and definitely must go down the self-taught route, then yes, I think that's the best option available to you

[cobalt terrace]

Hi! I am super unsure with my life right now and have some time limit. I am close to graduating BSc computer science and have an option to do Masters software engineering or try and find work to gain experience.
I feel like recently I have been pretty bogged down by computer science and I am not sure if it is me or how my current university taught it to me.
I still have some eagerness to pursue computer science but the time in BSc has really tired me down.
Therefore, I thought of doing pretty much some sort of gap year. I was thinking of applying to some computer science related jobs and to some business related jobs.
like a team management position.
Any advice anyone is willing to share. Thanks!

[fringe sphinx]

There's several answers: 1. not everyone graduates with a killer portfolio - get your resume put together and start the process of job hunting.
2. Network - talk to friends, friends of friends, etc. Find out who is working where. Join a club/etc.
3. Practice your skills - projects, etc
4. Broaden your knowlege - pick SWE relevant topics that you know nothing about and learn a little about them

[fringe sphinx]

In terms of Masters: you can always apply and use that as a Plan B. If it's a +1 program (which probably isn't, if you're this close to graduation), it's not too bad. But, if it's +2 years, I'd consider prioritizing the job hunt

[true harness]

if you are being bogged down by CS, how will a masters be different?

[cobalt terrace]

That is the reason i chosen software engineering instead of computer science for MSc

The software engineering looks like it gives me a more hands on approach compared to more theoretical stuff

[true harness]

software engineering will be fairly similar to cs in terms of theory. some differences may be a required internship or practicum, but it's not going to be much different

[cobalt terrace]

I am also unsure if I came back like after a gap year or two would it disrupt the flow. I wondered if Masters is needed?

[vocal oak]

Hello Python cord,

I am in my final year of highschool in Australia and am unsure of what career I want to go into after I graduate.My main area I am considering is CS, as I have had a passion for programming for many years now, however I am unsure of how "safe" of a pick CS is, as I have heard that there isn't enough demand and career options are oversaturated. Should I be worried about getting a job after I get my Bsc?

[fringe sphinx]

What country are you in?

[fringe sphinx]

I believe the oversaturation fears are exaggerated, for a lot of complex reasons. If you want an easy ride to big bucks, there aint no such thing... but if you put in the work, build your skills, there's consistent demand for SWEs.

[vocal oak]

yippee

[fringe sphinx]

Last few years have been chaotic for reasons that have nothing to do with SWE demand (nor, before you ask, AI)

That's just my opinion. Seek others, of course.

[vocal oak]

What would you recommend I do during my degree to stand out among applicants? I'm aware that creating big projects for a portfolio can go a long way, but what else is there?

[pine sleet]

internships where you do impactful things

[eager glacier]

Hii

[vocal oak]

would it be worth going for an unpaid internship just for the experience?
and do I need any qualifications before I apply(as in can i apply as soon as I'm out of high school)

[fast fossil]

from what I've heard, no, get paid

[vocal oak]

and as for the qualifications?

[white relic]

internships are usually made available to current university students, not often HS. and unpaid ones are unusual

[fringe sphinx]

besides what Robin said:

1. Network - join clubs, get involved in the department
2. Practice - Getting good is not about what you do in class.
3. Broaden your skills - learn about adjacent topics... computing is a wide field
4. Don't grind and don't worry about the "competition": find your own path and dont stress it.

[white relic]

There's no harm in trying for internships as a HS student. I've known some that made it work. But it's not common.

[vocal oak]

I might as well wait, I have 3 months left or so
and have finals soon

[eager glacier]

I'm a beginner, currently studying in As and have done typescript, python, custom gpts, ai agents, microservices, fastapi, etc and css html too lol so can you guys guide me how I can secure a remote job in any of these places: US, Canada, Dubai, Europe, Australia. Would really appreciate if anyone can help like the best places to find these opportunities or certifications to do to prove this other than the interview they'll be taking etc

[pine sleet]

you can apply, network, go to career fairs, etc for the experience but its not too common to land a swe job as a fresher

[white relic]

definitely prioritize your education

[pine sleet]

so i would recommend still doing all the things but not stressing too much if you can't get an internship right off the bat, you can focus more on your classes and projects during that first year. first year of university is usually tough in more ways than just one

[vocal oak]

silly question but

How does networking help so much?
i.e joining clubs, I can't exactly ask others in a CS club for a job can i

[white relic]

well... depends on what kind of club

[pine sleet]

networking is the single best way to land a job. there's a tact to it, you won't typically go up to random people in your CS club and ask for jobs, but you can become friends with them and they may help you down the line. you can literally never be sure where an oppurtunity may come from. make as many CS friends as you can, including profs

[fringe sphinx]

• other part is of clubs is learning from other people and hearing their experience (searching for jobs, etc). If you only hang out with other 1st years in your dorm, you will limit your exposure.

[white relic]

but, networking isn't necessarily about meeting people who can get you a job directly, but about knowing people who know people, knowing people who can give you relevant career- and location-specific advice, ^^^ all that stuff

[pine sleet]

your network grows exponentially. you meet new people, each of whom knows some people, each of those people also know their own people. oppurtunities come from the most unexpected places at times

there isn't really a downside

[vocal oak]

true
i also need friends /j

[fringe sphinx]

What's your opinion on fraternities? Curious whether they're relevant nowadays.

(and are they more a US thing? given OP is aus)

[pine sleet]

too much potential to fool around imo

not really worth it if you ask me

[vocal oak]

yeah pretty sure they are a mostly us thing

[pine sleet]

yeah idk if frats and sororities are a thing outside the us

[eager glacier]

Can anyone help?

[true harness]

networking/career related frats still exist. i can't comment on their usefulness

[vocal oak]

also I'm LIKELY going to a local university as it's meant to be great from what ive heard

anyway, thanks for all the help :)
must go

[glass silo]

i would beg to differ with 4, if there's competition in my path (which is always the case)- the way i would find a place is by practicing so hard 😭

[white relic]

depending on where you're from I'm not sure how to interpret "studying in As"
are you planning to go to university?

[vapid jay]

so im learning python right now i have some pretty good basics down but im not sure if im good enough to get my certification for my class yet can anyone help me with some things i should know for like general knowledge of whats typically on python certificate tests?

[pine sleet]

there should be a practice exam you can take for your certificate

[glass silo]

are cert's valid? how do you place certs vs projects (while screening)

[pine sleet]

no certs are pretty much useless

(for swe that is)

[vapid jay]

so if i had that python certificate it wouldnt really do much for my resume?

[pine sleet]

correct

[vapid jay]

what about html and css cert, sql and database cert, and javascript cert? like if i had all of those (those are everything i plan on learning this year)

[white relic]

there are no programming certificates that really mean much short of a bachelor's in CS (or a related field).

[pine sleet]

none of those really matter

[white relic]

databases... maybe? not really my area

[eager glacier]

Like I'm doing A Levels currently in college and will turn 18 on Sept 14th and was thinking about job don't wanna go to freelance platforms anymore

[vapid jay]

so basically if i want to get a job like a software engineer im gonna have to go to college for a cs degree or equevilent anyway?

[pine sleet]

you don't "have" to but it is the path of least resistance with most oppurtunities and compensation

[eager glacier]

I'm planning to go to university but would take like 2 years to complete my college

[pine sleet]

usually its 4, unless you're going for an associates

[true harness]

nah. the only certs that are relevant are things like aws certs. and not the entry ones like cloud practitioner, but things liike dev associate, solutions architect associate

[vapid jay]

idk ive heard cs is hell but i know its probably worth it

[pine sleet]

i wouldn't say that, more like.. challenging for people

[vapid jay]

better worded 😭

[pine sleet]

honestly its kind of a joke for a lot of unis in the us

[vapid jay]

i js dont want to go thru 6 years of learning how to program and then once i have everything ready to start a job have no place in the work force yk

[true harness]

CS is one of the more challenging majors. but it's really not a big deal if you actually want to be a software engineer

[pine sleet]

why 6? are you going for a masters? regardless they won't teach you to program except for the first one or two years

[fast fossil]

yeah, I would not advise going for a degree in a field you don't enjoy

[pine sleet]

at my uni cs majors only get 2 classes where the focus is teaching a specific language

[vapid jay]

i mean im doing 2 years of trade school for software and app design right now because im still in high school and then plan for four years of college after that

[vapid jay]

im really aiming for a cyber security field but i dont know what else to take other than computer science

[smoky quest]

If you think it will be difficult with 6 years of college, think about how much more difficult it will be without it 😉

[harsh river]

what about cybersecurity?

[vapid jay]

digital forensics seesm very appealing to me

[vital wyvern]

https://www.sans.edu/cyber-security-programs/bachelors-degree/

[vapid jay]

yo ima look into this man thanks

[vital wyvern]

Let me know if you have any questions. You can ping me in #cybersecurity or here depending on what the conversation topic is.
I graduate from this program soon, with a focus on DFIR, and work in the field.

[vapid jay]

It's crazy, I learned more with boot.dev in a few weeks than I have in a year.

Plus I figured out i need to game-ify my learning. . .

[fringe sphinx]

What in particular? And congrats.

[heavy bay]

Wsg y'all

[heavy bay]

Take computer science in college and then while you're on break say summer go for certifications from Cisco, Comptia, etc.

Showing that you were willing to take more than one path to achieve knowledge will make you look efficient, capable, and multifaceted in the eyes of near any company

[heavy bay]

Absolutely, I've noticed that I don't really learn well when I'm just asking my professors or watching youtube or reading through documents. I love building small games in C# or Java or just finding some on obscure websites like itch. I've learned more about software development and network security from playing video games than I have the hour+ long lectures my professors give.

Ik I'm late to the party but I believe my 2 cents still matters 😅

[vapid jay]

For starters , git. That was a huge blind spot of mine

[heavy bay]

😭 ik I should use something to keep track of my projects but I hate git

[vapid jay]

Bro, these people made it SO easy and fun to learn, like what the actual hell.

[peak halo]

out of curiosity, was there anything that was an "aha!" for you regarding git? for me it was "git is a tree of commits"

[heavy bay]

I wanna just keep them in files and leave them there

[vapid jay]

That's the thing! I never understood git. I thought it was just something we used to store our code in and that's it.

[peak halo]

right. I'm asking you if there was something about how the information was presented that caused you to understand.

[vapid jay]

Well for starters they kept making me use its features and moving files.

i.e. Learn by doing. But I feel as though my background in CS made this easy to grasp.

[buoyant seal]

I ll add my own two cents with having today written article on the topic of choosing pet projects ideas.
What are the clues to understand in which topic to do 🙂
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
As practice makes perfection, and it is quite crucial to transform dead knowledge to practical one.
And... Gaming stuff is part of it 😄

[heavy bay]

What caught my eye with git is the team capabilities, like being able to look back and see what they changed as well as the comments on their git commits. It was very helpful with some projects in college but overall I never want to use git again because of the collisions with versions

Especially where me and another person would accidentally be working on the same thing and we'd have to go through and figure out who's was better 😭 my team was not good at communicating

[vapid jay]

. . . . .Bro, what?

[peak halo]

collisions with versions? This is a lack-of-teamwork problem, not a git problem.
At this point, git is a fact of life for developers, so you'll want to embrace it with your whole heart sooner rather than later.

[vapid jay]

Ah The ego clasing of university nerds. . . . . . . I'm glad to be away from that.

[heavy bay]

I'm aware I just never got any communication from my teammates on it so I'd start working on something and they'd do it as well and boom now we've got two functions/classes/whatever that were doing the same thing

[vapid jay]

Did they get communication from you?

[heavy bay]

If I had access to the microsoft teams messages anymore I'd show you, I was sending messages every few minutes while working to see what everyone else was doing

[buoyant seal]

Uh. U just don't know yet how to cook it. Some day u will love it.

Even non devs can appreciate and start to use it eventually (like game config modders)
Just takes a certain level of maturity reached

[heavy bay]

And then I'd get messages like 30-40 minutes later saying "But I'm working on that" after I've already commited my code

It's like can y'all just read the god damn messages instead of jump in assuming you're the only dev.

The problem is that the people I'm working with are still acting like they're solo devs in their offices doing what they want while I'm over here having history working with other people, like yeah I didn't communicate as much as I should've but I still made the time to inform people that I was working on things.

And I'd try to start calls so we could actively communicate but it ended with people leaving out of boredom

Overall I love git and with a more professional team it'd be great but I dont enjoy using it in my current environment

Another example of my classmates

Those are their commit messages half the time

[sand patio]

disallow commits on main 🥺

[proven patrol]

i understand you

[buoyant seal]

Sounds quite a bit like micromanagement. Every few minutes 🤔

Ergh.. students. Toughest people to organize, as no one knows best practices

And Still not knowing basic Pull Request workflow
https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/comparing-workflows/feature-branch-workflow
And having often trouble to create a regular Kanban of tasks, who does what

[heavy bay]

Any time I've tried to implement something to help it's "Conner you're too controlling" which yeah I definitely am but when I have to read through your update to know wtf you did...

[proven patrol]

what do you want from the others?

[heavy bay]

Better communication, maybe even planning so we know what not to do

I requested a team change with my professor though so hopefully I get some more professional teammates

[sand patio]

are yall students?

[heavy bay]

Yes, second years however.

So I feel like their communicative skills should be better by now.

[fringe sphinx]

tbh, this is a good learning moment for all of you. learning bad is one way to get good.

[heavy bay]

Fair. I just wish it went better, definitely a lot for all of us to learn from it lol

[heavy bay]

I'm not going to say I wasnt micromanaging, but when I have to guess what people are doing someone should pull the team in... am I wrong?

If I am y'all please, wack me over the head here. Anything I can get is still learning

[buoyant seal]

Finding someone among students with more level of dev workflow skills like that sounds very unlikely. All students are most likely the same in this regard 😉

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this stuff is hard... it's why SWE managers/PMs/leads/etc exist

[heavy bay]

I've heard good things about some of the teams but I'm not expecting perfection... just communication

I agree with you Billy, I wish we had actual roles in these projects instead of just "Team up and make A, B, and C

[sand patio]

maybe start simpler, when you start an assignment, get everyone together and lay out what each one of yall should be doing, it'll get harder once you're more along the process

[fringe sphinx]

also, some ppl in uni are just hanging on for their lives... just to get thru the course

[sand patio]

students can be hard to work with, and I do kind of get why some of these workflows might seem "over the top" for a school project, and so they might be averse to adopting them.

[heavy bay]

I'm barely making it through my .NET class bro, I never used it before college and now it's just... there.

Doesn't help that I signed up for 5 classes this semester when the recommended is 3-4.

But it also means bachelors in 3 years instead of 4

Any of y'all good at webscraping? I'm trying to webscrape VPS and server prices for a paper on virtualization costs and so far I'm just doing it by hand but it's tedious.

[versed quarry]

I mean, I'm currently developing a project to scrape game jams & game submissions to said jams but i scrape only itch.io, not the internet

[heavy bay]

Yeah I tried and the websites I was scraping have some backend stuff so it was a flunk. It's whatever I got the data by hand

[versed quarry]

Backend stuff? You can just scrape via a headless browser

[final quarry]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[heavy bay]

I don’t do web scraping this is my first ever time actually playing with web scraping lol “headless browser” means green turkey to me. Could you be so kind as to explain? I’m truly at a loss

[versed quarry]

Don't you mean that when you send an initial GET request to the page the prices aren't listed because client side js has to run to add it to the HTML.

You can just use selenium to open a headless browser and get data using that(aka. It doesn't just request the html data and actually launches a real browser tab and scrapes data from that)

[versed quarry]

Headless browser, afaik, just means running a browser without the gui stuff(when you're doing web scraping for example)

This is good bcuz you don't have to waste resources on gui for scraping

Keep in mind that I have not used selenium, I just use requests with BeautifulSoup4(a package for extracting data from html). I dont need to use selenium because the html served by itch.io is all I need

[pine sleet]

we're usually wary of helping with webscraping since it violates terms of service more often than not

[versed quarry]

I mean they're most likely going to scrape public pages listing vps prices, I don't think that would violate their TOS, right?

[pine sleet]

no it often does

[versed quarry]

Huh

Well anyways I don't think what I'm doing is against itch.io tos

They don't say anything about scraping + I've checked the robots.txt already

I'm in the clear I think

[pine sleet]

go for it. regardless this would seem off topic for this channel

[versed quarry]

Right, this is career-discussion lol 😅

[pine sleet]

indeed

[vapid jay]

<h1>Hello World</h1>

[heavy bay]

I'm obtaining price data for a school paper, I can look at the company's TOSs and get back to you on that

The paper is done regardless but it'd be nice to learn for future endeavors

Regardless in a case like this it falls under the fair use doctrine.

Lack of commercial gain
Lack of economic gain
Not used for any means of publicity
No intent to impede copyright

[pine sleet]

sure. we don't litigate it too much, as it were

[heavy bay]

I do see in Sections 5 and 7 of OVH Cloud's TOS some grey area that does talk about web scraping but it's mostly meant to deter malicious use. I think I'll stick to obtaining this data by hand for the time being.

[heavy bay]

May I ask what Projects you lead? Just curious.

[hearty totem]

Late to the party but I'll be the devil's advocate on this. Micromanagemt is always never a good thing. Problem solution depends on problem. E.g. It is a lot easier to talk about written code than about abstract ideas in your head. Doing the same thing twice by two different people and then figuring out which one is better is better is a valid way of working. One just need to be careful to only do MVPs/prototypes first, not spend effort on making robust code out of something that may get thrown away. Once the way to do it is decided then both people work on making things robust. It is a different way of work but well suited to some envs. I do this in research code. More than 90% of the data I get is junk, amd 100% looks like junk. You need many prototypes to find the non-junk. The world is a wide place.

[tardy pulsar]

Kurt 😅

[trail wren]

Hey guys, which one should I use, python or python3?

[graceful owl]

if you're writing new programs, python3

[slender copper]

hi so im planning to do a career in cyber sec. I have currently passed my AS-Level computer science. I am now studying T-Level Cyber Security. And plan on doing a course [Computer Sciecne with Cyber Secruitry] Is this a good option for me and does the university matter?

[fringe sphinx]

Are you asking if Cybersecurity is a good field / career?

[gritty rivet]

I have no idea what AS and T level mean so you probably want to get local advice. If your a university student hopefully there is a career center that can connect you with recent graduates in the field. LinkedIn is also a great resource,.and you may find relevant local groups on places like Meetup

Yes,.your choice of university matters. It's not everything, but it matters.

[slender copper]

i believe it is. But no im asking wether my choice of univerity is important and wether university is a neccesity to progress within cyber sec

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, as a general rule: degrees matter and bypassing a degree is not usually a "shortcut". choice of university, see dowcets comment above. For cybersec, you can ask the cybersec professionals in #cybersecurity for their specific feedback.

[viral geode]

im thinking of studying computational physics

[tough torrent]

@burnt roost my friend. when you have fighted 5 hours on getting something too work. then you try too change the code for like smaller, more consistent and motivated code block = like think about how else you could do it, how can it be smaller because then it will be faster etc.. just watch out for github my friend. i deleted my private project from my computer don't ask how. lost 2 months of work. sometimes you have too learn it the hard way. i was mad but then i realise its a learning journey if i do it twice i learn better

[burnt roost]

is there something specific you wanted to ask me?

or were you trying to ping someone else?

[pallid yew]

Hello, I am looking to advance my limited knowledge and experience of programming in order to land a career in computer programming, and I decided to pursue this a few months ago. I have had a little (emphasis on little) experience with learning how to code in Python, JavaScript, and HTML.

I wouldn't say I even scratched the surface of any of these languages, considering how advanced they are, but I have been reading through library books and looking at YouTube guides on programming mindset, coding, and career options.

So now I am looking at what avenue of further education would benefit me the most for my situation. College, coding bootcamp, or self-teaching are the avenues I found

[gritty rivet]

You have no degree of any kind beyond high school? Then getting a degree would be the normal path

[pallid yew]

Hmm okay. I've met people who have gotten good at programming through a coding bootcamp, so I was a bit confused there

Also the price for admission is comparable to college

So it's not a matter of cost

[gritty rivet]

Most successful bootcamp graduates a) made the switch before the market tanked and b) have previous (non-CS) degrees and professional experience of some kind

[pallid yew]

Ok that makes a lot of sense. As for the market crash, I didn't find any credible sources online saying anything about this affecting bootcamps, so it was hard for me to justify college further than this

[gritty rivet]

Even a degree is no guarantee anymore, but if you're serious about persuing a SWE career your chances will be a lot better way.

I say this as a bootcamp graduate myself.

Most people active in this channel probably have relevant degrees and you won't really find anyone saying that's not the safest path

[pallid yew]

That's understood, then. Thank you for your point of view on things, I've seen contradicting arguments either way

[pallid yew]

I do have a follow-up question to this...

What kind of project work should I do for my portfolio and personal experience? I say this because I'm afriad to get into the rabbit hole of all ideas, no execution

[fringe sphinx]

Bootcamps have never been comparable to degrees. However, at one time, it did open doors for job transitioners. Some bootcampers were successful, but I think you'll find many of them build off some existing experience.

(Do you agree with above, dowcet?)

[gritty rivet]

A lot depends on the roles you're aiming for.

When I got hired, my main project was a simple REST API built in Flask.

It's less about what your project does and what technologies it uses then good design, documentation, tests and just generally clean code.

[pallid yew]

The way I'm hearing you, it's about how well you make it, not simply what it does?

[true harness]

both are important. there's only so much you can do to a simple project

[gritty rivet]

@pallid yew Yes, he's right.

In my case having a few years of general IT support experience and a non-relevsnt degree were probably both critical. Folks I know without degrees all had professional experience of some kind, often military

And folks I know without degrees are all trying to get degrees now, which is tough when you're working full time

[pallid yew]

What criteria, preferences, or prerequisties would make experience in the military programming department more favorable to someone than, say, in a retail or commercial company?

[fringe sphinx]

A degree is one piece of a big puzzle. Practicing to "get good", networking to find opportunities, learning more than just programming, and internships/work experience are all part of the Uni experience.

[gritty rivet]

Not a whole lot, but in some cases those folks had security clearance which allowed them to apply for good jobs that other people can't compete for as easily

Other professional experience can be at least as valuable, even more so. I work in fintech where banking experience is a huge plus

[pallid yew]

If I wanted to find myself working in, say, a company or team tasked with solving problems that have consequences in the tangible real world, then what would the appropriate pathway(s) be for my career besides the above criteria and guidelines?

[gritty rivet]

I would say all engineering roles fit that description.

People don't get paid to write software if they don't solve real world problems for paying customers

[fringe sphinx]

It's hard to shape a career... careers are unpredictable and often opportunity based. You may be able to shape it through your extracurriculars... clubs/projects/volunteering/etc... but who knows.

[pallid yew]

In that case, it would probably be best if I had the mindset that accepts every or every other opportunity on programming career advancement--whatever is presented in time. If, say, I was working for a banking firm, and an opportunity arose for me to work in a commercial or cybersecurity company, it would be wise for me to make the jump, considering how many doors that could open given the fact that I am bringing previous experience with me.

[gritty rivet]

To some extent I agree with that, but it's also necessary to specialize and get better-than-average at specific things.

Through formal study and professional experience you learn what you're most interested in and/or talented at by exploring new things. But you have to be strategic, because nobody can chase every single opportunity.

[fringe sphinx]

You'll find there's many perfectly good answers to this question of specialization. My view is: generalize first, specialize later... unless you have a particular passion.

[pallid yew]

Sounds like I need to be well-versed on what specific jobs can be attained in my career and whether they can be a bridge to another job or the job I want to keep.

There's also the factor of changing markets that may render certain "dream" jobs obsolete or unworkable in the near future, so I do have that risk as well

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[supple sparrow]

Sure

[pallid yew]

Well, I do have a passion for participating in projects that benefit people in certain ways, and I do have a particular interest in the arts as well

[fringe sphinx]

yah... That's a good way to point it. I was just advising against specializing before you've become well-versed.

[gritty rivet]

Right, and this to me is part of why a full degree program is a worth investment...

Bootcamps emerged because there was a huge need for people to fill web jobs with specific tech stacks. If those people were weak in other fundamentals, fine, they could do good enough at this particular entry-level job

Degree programs give a deeper and broader foundation in fundamentals that allow you to do a wider range of things and be more adaptable

I see this all the time in my work. I do fine at what I was hired to do but people with CS degrees can quickly pick up all kinds of new things I have to struggle hard at learning

[gritty rivet]

The more advanced your skills, the more freedom you have to choose what kind of work you do. Arts organizations can't pay as well, but if you're ok and you're good enough at what you do, you can get by doing that work

[pallid yew]

That's a good point. I don't see as much demand for programmers on systems and programs meant for helping artists or other similarly positioned customers, but I don't really want to unnecessarily isolate so much of my professional life from what I enjoy that I develop regrets.

At the same time, tho, I do enjoy solving problems, so my horizons are broader in that respect.

[gritty rivet]

It's pretty common for SWEs to contribute to open source or do other voluntary things that aren't about the money. If nothing else you can choose personal projects that support causes or deal with topics you care about.

[sterile forge]

Hi All, is it possible to transition from business operations background to Data Analyst roles? Is there anyone here who has done something similar and can share the experience?

[gritty rivet]

Not sure if we have anyone here but have you tried searching around on LinkedIn, especially your local area? I'm sure they're out there

[gritty rivet]

So to answer your first question, I'm confident it's possible even though I can't point you directly to someone who's done it... If you have other related questions folks here might have some relevant insights anyway

[sterile forge]

I found some folks on LinkedIn who seem to transitioned but i was not able yo connect with them. However, the ones i found mostly had 2-3 max experience in non tech roles and then switched to Data

[fringe sphinx]

One problem is both roles are really broad terms, data analyst canmean nearly anything

[sterile forge]

In my situation i got stuck with operations job for 6 years. Although, I have a bachelors in Information Technology and now im trying to get back in there

[fringe sphinx]

I know various people who've transitioned into what I'd call data about jobs from, say, non data jobs (ie: finance ppl)

[sterile forge]

Agreed. I am trying in as a Data Analyst and them carrying on to Data scientist roles. That is how i want my career progression

[sterile forge]

Also, one concern is that should I totally twist my resume and showcase my 6 years of work somehow related to Data Analysis or should I be honest

[fringe sphinx]

Ideally, build rather than reset. What kind of ops? Data analytics is importsnt to ops departments too.

[gritty rivet]

I wouldn't lie, but you can strongly emphasize the most relevant details

[sterile forge]

I am in the customer support field. Working as a team lead in operations currently

[fringe sphinx]

Your goal doesn't seem unusual, lots of people move to back office roles

The harder question is: what's skills should -you- develop. That's tough because how vague data analyst is as a field

[sterile forge]

I am aiming for python, sql and power BI

I am getting some hold on python as I have been learning it on and off over the years

Sql is something that needs to be brushed up

[gritty rivet]

That seems pretty standard. A good portfolio project or two demonstrating those skills could very well be the key to shifting into a data role

[fringe sphinx]

Might also study some process management stuff, like six sigma, Tqm, lean, etc.

[sterile forge]

I also believe the same should help a lot. Do you happen to know any free resource for such projects or any yt channel that should help?

[sterile forge]

Got it. Sure 👍🏻

[rocky fulcrum]

quick question: what do job interviewers look for in terms of past experience and a portfolio? i've probably already asked this question but i believe that if i link them my github projects as proof im a good programmer then that should be more than enough but everyone around me is telling me i need a certificate, despite the fact that i can practically outcode most of what i'd expect the content to be about.

i also want to look for apprenticeships to make some cash on the side so if you know how to get those in the UK, that would be amazing

[hearty mason]

Ayo!
Imma ask yall for guidance on how will python be useful for a programmer and what all can a person do with it?
DMs are open
Actually I recently finished python and am a little blurry on what i should do next.
Should I make python projects and upload on GitHub?
What all can I do with the help of Python?

[buoyant seal]

You can do with Python building backend/web applications at least. Using Django, Flask, FastAPI stuff.
They can be working as JSON input/output server side stuff to interact with other apps
Or it can be serving html/css/js for standalone solution.

You can build with python scripting tools
As fully fledged application like docker-compose formerly being in python before it was refactored...

U can build TUI applications with it too if desired

...to do just glueing things together. for some infra, if u are system admin / devops

It can be used for data science / machine learning stuff

Add also data enginereing to shovel data around in addition 😉
And i guess Quality Assurance engineers can be using python too

Probably there are other applications i am not aware of
https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python
U could explore page here what people do with it

[hearty mason]

Bro @buoyant seal Would you mind if I dm you? Have a lot on my mind...

[buoyant seal]

i will prefer u will ask in public. DMs are counter productive in such communities
Don't be shameful to ask anything here. Shame does not exist 😇

[hearty mason]

I mean I didnt get 70% of what you wrote above

[fringe sphinx]

For most SWE jobs, a degree is the minimum requirement, not a cert nor good projects. That doesn't mean there aren't any opportunities, but they're hard to find and you'll have to lower your expectations or aim for an adjacent role.

[buoyant seal]

anything specific

[hearty mason]

I am completely new to programming and hence...

[fringe sphinx]

If you want to impress someone with your skills, you'll likely need to network (talk) your way into an opportunity... not just sending your resume into the wild

[hearty mason]

Buddy I just recently finished python course from a renowned youtube channel and I know good enough.
I dont even know which direction to proceed in because I am not familiar with all the technical terms

Are there separate courses for DJango or Flask?I only know that these libraries are used to make websites

[buoyant seal]

probably there are.

https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world can serve as entrypoint
https://flask.palletsprojects.com/en/3.0.x/quickstart/ or this

Or this for django https://www.djangoproject.com/start/

[hearty mason]

Yo thank you bro ig for today I'll go through this stuff that you just sent and extract anything I feel is important.
Thank You😊😊

[kindred rock]

Yo.
Congrats me!
I probably found a new job and about to get paid.
(Can't DM)

[kindred rock]

Not even as a junior. :)

[white relic]

It depends on the interviewer and the position. But people will generally not look at GitHub projects before they've already determined that your resume makes you a good candidate. Many openings have more applicants than they know what to do with. Nobody's doing code review on every applicants GitHub before they filter on easier stuff like education and prior experience

[tepid idol]

Hi guys, question. I'm deciding to switch my major either computer science or software engineering but I really don't know which one is best and if there both the same

[fast fossil]

how is that not the same thing?

[tepid idol]

apparently its not from what I heard

[fast fossil]

well, can you outline the differences for your particular case?

[tepid idol]

like, which major is better CS or SE?

[peak halo]

CS is the most established. There might be circumstances where it makes more sense to get an SE degree, but it definitely depends on the program.