career-advice

[safe coral]

Does it look good tho?

Yup 😄 I agree

[lilac sundial]

Did u do 2 bachelors at once

[vapid jay]

Certainly far more qualified than me.

[hidden crystal]

is there a way to get famous or like earn 6 figs a year just by coding

[deft herald]

yeah, but it involves obtaining a 4 year degree

[hidden crystal]

ok but where can i go to make like 1m+

[deft herald]

To work

[hidden crystal]

what job

[deft herald]

The difference between 100k and 1m is huge, btw

[hidden crystal]

Idc abt money 😭 Just enough for a mansion , a buncha cars, and frequent vacations for my parents. Idc abt myself.

[deft herald]

Sounds like you do care about money my friend

[torpid birch]

updates on the interview, got grilled, started with math like what is bigger, 2/3 or 3/5, 7/4 of a minute in seconds, passed to scripting with python, easy stuff like count from 1 to 176, if multiple of a number print string, if multile of another number print string2 and if multiple of both print string3.
Proceeded to theoric questions about python, what is the purpose of if __name__ == __main__, what is encapsulation.
Then showed me a login portal (GUI) and asked me about what tests i would make before shipping, from the top of my head.
For the final questions, asked me network stuff.
What would the default gateway and subnet mask do to assure the packet is sent to the correct device
@turbid bobcat taggin you because i talked with you about this 😄

[hidden crystal]

Oh ok, is that a bad thing to care abt money tho

[deft herald]

No. It's bad to make it your sole motivation for living though

[torpid birch]

just want a simple house and a Porsche 911

Currently i can barely afford an house, oh well

[hidden crystal]

How.

[shy sigil]

That definitely involves money, and no I don't think its bad to care about money

[hidden crystal]

Im alot younger than u, but I heard as long as u go to college, get a degree, ull get any job u want and then automatically earn monye 😭 at minimum 100k yearly .. Im confused on how u can barely afford a house. I dont mean to b rude im js hella younger than u so i prolly dont understand the struggle

[torpid birch]

i am not that hold ahah i am 26

[shy sigil]

If you mean an apartment that's achievable

[hidden crystal]

Ok but axis, i cant be a game dev 😭 that takes years, and hella time. Im tryna also sustain myself while working on that, do u mean like being a mcdonalds worker or sum shit and also working on ur game?? or what

[shy sigil]

Anyways, I think the only way here has more to do with selling a product
Like making an insanely popular online game, but there isnt a "viral button" that you can push, involves luck

[hidden crystal]

I was thinking of just doing roblox game development, hiring everyone for it, then pouring in for investments and get the game to be big. And then earn like 500-1m a year 😭

[pine sleet]

it doesn't work like that

[hidden crystal]

what do u work as

[shy sigil]

I'm not offering that suggestion as reasonable advice, I'm talking about possibilities and that's one
If you want to make 1M+ USD a year the more reasonable thing to do would be looking into starting a business - through which it will still be insanely hard and involve a bunch of luck

[torpid birch]

kind of automation engineer, but i just do some scripting and i am now developing a website for the department

[hidden crystal]

What type of business. I have so many ideas but im scared of failing and wasting time

[deft herald]

Houses are expensive af. Especially if you need one big enough to hold your family

[gritty rivet]

How many developers do you suppose you can afford to hire right now 🤔

[hidden crystal]

they have to be paying u alot right

[torpid birch]

lmao, Portugal i guet 19k year

[hidden crystal]

The one im in is huge , 700k, backyard, 4 floors. But i wanna move them to a mansion 😭 Like the stuff u see on tv .

[hidden crystal]

Uhhhh. Cant i make like a cashgrab, make money from that, then hire ppl to work on an actual project? Idk if u know anytihng abt roblox so im keeping it like lowk so u understand

[shy sigil]

🤷‍♂️ that's the kind of thing you'd have to come up with
if you're more interested in making big money, taking CS in hopes of that may not be a good idea

[gritty rivet]

If you're afraid of failing, entrepreneurship probably isn't for you. Even highly experienced ones have to accept risks of failure as part of the learning process

[near ocean]

Do you mean fraud?

[hidden crystal]

WHATTTT?????? 19k A YEAR AND UR DOING ALLAT HARD WORK 😭

[pine sleet]

the number may seem low but there are other factors

[deft herald]

Other countries with different economies exist...

[shy sigil]

This is very common, you'll come to understand as you near college and its packages afterward maybe
What grade are you in now?

[hidden crystal]

so should i give up on cs and just lock in with like, other stuff, like uhh clothing company, uhm, idk what else . Bro but thats crazy, should i js give up on computer science fully? 😭

[pine sleet]

do what you enjoy

[hidden crystal]

Thats not fraud. Do you know what a cashgrab is

[pine sleet]

money is fleeting and not worth chasing after

[near ocean]

It's fraud

[hidden crystal]

edit: oh wait u said economies 😭

[pine sleet]

that's not the whole picture

[shy sigil]

I can only suggest making a more informed decision, which at least this is a step towards. You've learnt that 20k USD/year (of course, in different countries) is a very common reality for SWE from this discussion at least

[hidden crystal]

Im a rising senior, i did alotta stuff but its so time consuming so i quit. I need smth automatic 😭

[deft herald]

Even within the US, one salary somewhere will have much different purchasing power somewhere else

[gritty rivet]

You should give up on thinking some brilliant idea is going to make you a millionaire quickly.

[deft herald]

Yup. That is definitely possible but it's extremely rare

[smoky quest]

no pain no gain.
Short of being born into money or marrying into money, there won't be anything automatic.

Anything with 7 digits+ will require you to be the best of the best

[hidden crystal]

This isnt true 😭 My parents deserve everything in the world. My goal is just to retire them, then like god, and like yeah maybe have fun

[hidden crystal]

I meant like cashgrab games on roblox 😭 Like games thatll get young teens to just buy them, even if it doesnt seem like a fun game. Like simulators

[peak halo]

@hidden crystal professional developers typically make more than other white collar professionals, but they're not making multi-million annual incomes. the people making that much money are senior executives and business owners.

[pine sleet]

yes many people want to do that, but you can do the same thing by getting a CS degree and getting a well paying CS job

[hidden crystal]

Like what tho 😭 wdym by informed decision

[pine sleet]

you don't need to make millions to help your parents be comfortable

[hidden crystal]

🤷‍♀️ im soo confused, what do u want me think instead. Just get a degree and work a regular job like every human on earth?

[analog sun]

Turns out that is solid advice

[pine sleet]

in this case it is probably better to go the path well travelled

[smoky quest]

Why not?

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, making money is hard work

[pine sleet]

and a lotta luck

[hidden crystal]

Thats a regular developer, im talking like someone who makes games and those games get like hella traction and they make 100% of the income.

[peak halo]

that's the plan that is most likely to work. you can try something that might have a higher payoff, but the most likely outcome is that you'll end up less successful than if you had focused your efforts on a safer plan.

[hidden crystal]

😭 How am i gon retire my parents with 70-100k

[pine sleet]

it is doable

[gritty rivet]

That's like saying you only want to play the lottery if you're guaranteed to win. It doesn't work that way

[near ocean]

Its your own parents job to figure out how to retire first of all

[shy sigil]

rising senior as in high school? I want to suggest:

• Look into what paths you have in front of you. I don't know where you live, but here in India for example you can pretty easily access the information of what the top placements for each college was last year. Try aiming for that college and look into what it takes

• If you want to make big money, focusing on CS isn't the way. That's the kind of thing business makes you, so I'd consider learning about that, take a bachelors in business administration maybe?

• This one is important: Don't be stubborn about non-ideal realities, just because you said you want to be rich doesn't mean you have to be. You can still be very happy doing something that makes lesser - so don't neglect that option. That being said, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with trying to make money, so if you want to do that then focus on that

[peak halo]

is there a reason you're fixated on your parents' retirement? do they not have a pension/retirement plan? and does portugal not have some sort of program for seniors?

[dark arrow]

its extremely rare for indie games to blow up to the point you become a millionaire
and if you decide to work as a gamedev at a studio that comes with its own pros and cons

[hidden crystal]

Nah but what im saying is like, be safe, go to college, get a degree, but do like a side hustle and hope that blows up, then quit everything else n focus on that.

[pine sleet]

and even if your game blows up, its again rare that it makes enough money for you to afford the kind of lifestyle you're talking about

[hidden crystal]

Good point 😭 Ill just try to the best .

[shy sigil]

Well you were surprised by 20k USD/year just a couple minutes ago, this reveals you aren't informed enough to take a decision on what to do yet

[graceful owl]

i respect the grind that's what i'm doing rn lol

but you have to balance working on your side projects with not burning out + having a fun life

[torpid birch]

It’s still lowball for the role, since I am the team lead.
I am currently looking for another job lol

[hidden crystal]

I live in texas 😭😭😭😭 And im going to emory or duke most likely with my stats

Wait but you said if i develop games ill be like making hella. Whyd u switch up and say cs isnt the way 😭

[near ocean]

Game dev is like the worst paying tech industry lol

[pine sleet]

yeah, but if you do a directly comparision like 2emon did, you would be considered barely above the federal poverty line in the US (which i'm sure isn't true)

[hidden crystal]

Oh nah , i dont live in portugal, some other guy in here said he makes 19k a year and hes being worked like a slave so im js curious why , but i live in america.

I only wanna retire my parents cs like theyve dedicated their whole life to me and my 11 siblings. like its only the right thing to do. Like what am i gon do with 1m a year 😭 Im not stupid enough to go buy like designer brands and pointless colored cars

[pine sleet]

i live in texas too, and am not much older than you are (sophmore in a university in texas) - imo the best path at the moment if you want to go into cs would be make projects, explore stuff in the tech space, see what you like, keep up good grades at school and get into a good university so you can study CS

[torpid birch]

Ok got it, here in Portugal is a bit above average

[shy sigil]

I think you need to re-read what I said

I'm not offering that suggestion as reasonable advice, I'm talking about possibilities and that's one
Your initial question was "is there a way to become a celebrity/make a million dollars through being a python expert"

#career-advice message

[hidden crystal]

What abt roblox dev 😋 I Heard they make like 100k a month

[pine sleet]

sounds reasonable

[gritty rivet]

CS is a good field to make exceptionally good money if you're exceptionally good at it.

[dark arrow]

that has to be wild cap

[pine sleet]

there are probably one or two people that do

[near ocean]

Roblox pays well if you work for them as a dev
Writing code, not silly game mods or whatever

[graceful owl]

in my experience best money in just being a regular sweng is quant sw dev

[hidden crystal]

Right now my mindset is not having fun at all unless im comfortable in life.

Yeah i got hella friends 😭 (not tryna flex ) and like yea im having fun at school, but i just dont feel comf right now yk?? im tryna like peak when im like uhh 19-21 and b like a millionaire or smth

[dark arrow]

i highly doubt even a roblox employee is earning $1.2M/yr

[hidden crystal]

BROO 😭 ur making me wan quit cs entirely. how the fuck are u a team lead, making websites for ppl, doing all that slavery and still manage to hit 19k a year, u deserve literally everything 😭 for what u do

[gritty rivet]

There are less than 1000 developers making that much in a year on there https://www.pymnts.com/news/payments-innovation/2024/roblox-game-developer-earnings-leap-19-in-2023/

[graceful owl]

i hate to break it to you but unless you've been programming for like 8 years already + are a meganerd it's unlikely you'll be a millionaire by 21

[hidden crystal]

Then why are yall doing it as a job 😭 out of respect

[pine sleet]

lets say your hype game stays at that level of popularity for a year (which is rare, most fall of within a couple months) you've made 1.2 million, in the grand scheme of things that isn't that much

[near ocean]

I dont game dev lol

[hidden crystal]

And also do like a side hustle trying to make my own company. right? also glad to see we both live in texas, twinnin 🙏

[dark arrow]

many gamedevs are in that industry because it was their childhood dream or whatever

[near ocean]

My guy googling is easy, you can look up how much game devs in big studios make

[deft herald]

levels.fyi

[hidden crystal]

Brah what 😭 #career-advice message

[dark arrow]

gamedev isnt the only CS field

[hidden crystal]

The estimated total pay range for a Game Developer at Roblox is $111K–$183K per year, which includes base salary and additional pay. The average Game Developer base salary at Roblox is $122K per year. The average additional pay is $20K per year, which could include cash bonus, stock, commission, profit sharing or tips.

[pine sleet]

sure, maybe the stars will align in an extraordinary feat of luck and you make billions. but maybe like 99% of the other people who want to do the same thing, they end up going broke, no college education and no job prospects.

it's a risk/reward kind of thing and you have to pick

[analog sun]

CS is more than just game dev

I'd also say there are no guranteed "get rich quick" schemes in life

[dark arrow]

yes that is an order of magnitude less than 100k per month

[hidden crystal]

Nah im saying like I own the whole thing , not developing it. Like i hire ppl to work on my game, and earn 70% of profit. and 30% goes to the company themselves as tax.

[near ocean]

Roblox pays well

[gritty rivet]

You're talking about going to a decent US university. Even if you just do average work there, six figures right out of school is very possible. If you gain some experience and connections, maybe you'll develop a very successful product and make a lot more, but statistically it's not very likely

[pine sleet]

you can either go for a steady career with good income or you can hedge everything on one bet and try to make it big

[dark arrow]

that is also an order of magnitude less than $1.2M 💀

[hidden crystal]

ebiking wtf is that. ur on a bike on ur wii ? 😭😭😭

[near ocean]

Sure but its still better than average

[hidden crystal]

idk what that is , sorry

[near ocean]

Thats not how anything works on this green earth

[dark arrow]

tldr stock trading on steroids

[hidden crystal]

Yeah cs they dont do shit 😭 All they do is moderate ppl, thats like being a store employee manager or secuirity or smth. Plus they doing it from their chair.

[graceful owl]

quant finance

i'm in UK where salaries are generally quite low compared to US (i'm on £50-60k as a tech lead lol)

my quant dev friends were on £300k+ straight out of university

[gritty rivet]

You're not going to hire a bunch of devs without investors. You're not going to get investors behind you without professional experience and connections

[graceful owl]

one of their bosses quit because their £700k bonus was too low lol

[near ocean]

Bro what is it with people and inflating numbers today

It takes 2 seconds to go on glassdoor and look this shit up, even with their terrible UX

[hidden crystal]

Ok but u gotta realize that 1000 is alot. And all 1000 probably dont even have a team, and they do it solo. But what im tryna do is actually hire ppl to do stuff, like the best of the best. Also u can have multiple games, so 100k a game x 8 other projects u can do = 800k at least

[hidden crystal]

uhh google says 200k

[near ocean]

200k what

[pine sleet]

do you have a couple million in the bank right now? if so, go for it. if you can top the compensation for the "best of the best" and convince them to join you instead of whatever company they're getting paid insane money at right now, you've got a good shot

[hidden crystal]

Ok but yeah, i wont be risking anything cs ill already be in college working my way up for a degree . im still a senior in high school

[hidden crystal]

dropshipping, reselling, tiktok clipping, etc

[graceful owl]

those are not guaranteed get rich quick schemes lol

[twilit portal]

An important thing to understand here is that salaries (and living costs) can be very different in different countries.
Someone in the USA with the same job would NOT earn 19k a year, they would earn more

[graceful owl]

you have been sold that by people trying to sell you courses

[hidden crystal]

How are u saying all that then ending it with "but statistically its not very likely" 😭 Making me cry fr. But yeah ill just try my best

[torpid birch]

I will be out, will tag later or want me to dm you?

[hidden crystal]

Throw in like 1-2% profit for those investors . Or maybe make a cashgrab, get money from that. Then use it to invest my main project, i got it figured out

[gritty rivet]

If you think beating the odds will be easy and automatic you'll be doing a lot more crying. If you accept that you need to work exceptionally hard with exceptional focus to achieve your goals, then you have a chance

[graceful owl]

i think you need to really temper your expectations

[pine sleet]

sounds very unrealistic but go for it i guess

[hidden crystal]

fuck no 😭😭😭 online biking simulators?? I only know like actual physical bikes

[near ocean]

You keep using cashgrab when you mean fraud and i dont think its gonna end well for you

[pine sleet]

nah you can def do cashgrabs without fraud

[hidden crystal]

OK BUT u gotta understand, the ppl selling courses are the ones like making the most. Its just all abt being smart

[analog sun]

Its a physical bike with a battery powered motor to assist at different levels

[hidden crystal]

Cashgrab isnt fraud 😭 were talking abt roblox, not like wire fraud

[graceful owl]

sure, but you didn't say 'making courses', you said 'dropshipping, reselling, and tiktok clipping' lol

you need to be careful

[hidden crystal]

Oh. why do they call it electronic if it uses batteries

[near ocean]

Fraud is taking peoples money and not delivering as promised

[analog sun]

Batteries provide electricity

[hidden crystal]

thats not what roblox cashgrabs are, its games that are just pay to wins, and young teens and mindless kids spend hella on it and get you rich

[near ocean]

That sounds even worse

[pine sleet]

it works sometimes

but it doesn't give too much money

[peak halo]

so you're either indirectly stealing from their parents or rewarding kids for wasting their money. I would hope that you find the idea of doing that repugnant.

[hidden crystal]

It gives enough to use for ur main project and get that to blow up tho. Or enough to make groceries weekly

[near ocean]

I dont think the chat should entertain the idea of taking advantage of children
Go to school, get a degree

[pine sleet]

nah it won't, not if you want to hire the best of the best devs like you said

[hidden crystal]

Broo what 😭 what i mean is like lets say for example i got like a rly cool golden sword in my game. And it costs like 30$ . And then a child or like someone buys it, they get what i promised and i get 30$ 😭 Its like those in app purchases u get in games.

[pine sleet]

you need to have significant capital to start some insane project to make insane amounts of money like you say, and some roblox game isn't going to get you that

[hidden crystal]

Bro then why does shit like in game currencies exist. Ur basically saying every paid thing on stuff is taking "advantage" of children

[peak halo]

yeah, where are those kids getting $30? by using their parents' credit card without permission.

[peak halo]

a lot of them are, yeah.

[gritty rivet]

I showed you how rare this is, and you told me the data doesn't mean what it actually means... You've clearly set your mind on this fantasy and there's no point in talking you out of it. Good luck 🙂

[hidden crystal]

Were talking abt robux 😭

[near ocean]

Yes they shouldnt exist, its greed and obviously we're not going to recommend you do this nonsense

[pine sleet]

aside from the obvious immorality of it it's just not feasible

[near ocean]

Go to school, get a degree, get a good paying tech job
This is enough to retire early anyway

[pine sleet]

anyway, i think this convo has gone on long enough that we're going in circles and everyone's made their point. @hidden crystal we don't think this is a good idea, but the choice is yours. we should probably move on and talk about other stuff now

[hidden crystal]

Yeah ok so i decided to just stay in school , get a degree, and start a company as a side hustle. if it succeeds , good, if it fails, cool, im still in school n not like i lost anything.

[near ocean]

As long as school is your prio and youre not dropping your grades for this company

[wraith flame]

someone pinged me and i cant find it...

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @hidden crystal until <t:1721673729:f> (10 minutes) (reason: mentions spam - sent 7 mentions).

The <@&831776746206265384> have been alerted for review.

[shy sigil]

Yes this is a reasonably better approach

[dark arrow]

!unmute 1138330187185004595

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: pardoned infraction timeout for @hidden crystal.

[hidden crystal]

Thank you guys 🙏

Im sorry if i was being dumb or annoying.

[shy sigil]

plus who knows, you may even find something in CS that you really enjoy and you may prefer doing that regardless

[dark arrow]

anecdotally ive heard stories of investors wanting people to drop out and focus full time on the company

[hidden crystal]

I was js fixated on like online lifestyle and seeing other ppl comf with like millions

[near ocean]

That doesnt sound like a good idea, you'll work for more than one company, ditching your degree is like shooting both your feet off

[hidden crystal]

Is that a good thing

[dark arrow]

no

[hidden crystal]

ok but what if the company was like p big and they paying u alot

[near ocean]

You'll work for more than one company in your life

If they dont want you to finish your education they dont want whats good for you

[hidden crystal]

what if its a life changing contract

[tender thicket]

you have a laywer or older smart friend look it over

some of these are important, life-giving opportunities. Most are scams.

[gritty rivet]

Tech CEOs are disproportionately college dropouts compared to tech professionals as a whole. This is a fact, but it gives people a very wrong impression about how reality works. College dropouts are, of course, not disproportionately rich

[hidden crystal]

ok but were talking abt college dropouts that got smth better going for them that they gotta focus on

[hidden crystal]

stuff like this ^

[near ocean]

mit and stanford college dropouts arent the same as your average college dropout

[faint nebula]

You people are blessed to be working for companies I just started learning python yesterday, typed my first Hello World code and damn I already feel like Mr Robot though I know I'm years away from getting it

[dark arrow]

i mentioned that as like a warning

[hidden crystal]

ohh i thought u were on my side 😭😭😭

[tender thicket]

Investors aren't special money angels

they're just people

[hidden crystal]

college is a college 🤷‍♂️
same degree same goal same pay

[tender thicket]

some are good, some are evil

consider your risks

[near ocean]

Go get into MIT then, then you can dropout

[tender thicket]

because physics will be checking your work, and it doesn't make mistakes

networking is important

[graceful owl]

generally going to a higher tier uni will give you opportunities for higher salary

[hidden crystal]

Why would anyone dropout tho 😭 Im only dropping outta college if i get like biggggg

[hidden crystal]

is that acc true, cs idk if i should go to duke or emory 😭 Also what abt full ride n stuff

[graceful owl]

i'm not in the US, i can't answer about scholarship

but statistically, yes it's true

[near ocean]

You shouldnt drop out of college even if you make it big, youre not bill gates lol, a little big of self awareness will go a long way

[hidden crystal]

broo @pine sleet im brainwashed by all the ig reels im watching that r ppl living soo comf n selling courses 😭😭 how do i escape n like get redirected to reality. my brain is cooked

[hidden crystal]

Thats not true 😭😭😭 youtubers, celebs, artists are making sm js cs they dropped out

[gritty rivet]

If I were deciding between those schools, one thing I'd be doing is going on LinkedIn and finding recent graduates doing interesting things. Learn what you can from those people

[hidden crystal]

The only person i know that didnt drop out of college and making like 10m yearly is like Lil Mabu, but his whole personality is abt being a student in college n thats what seperates him from other ppl.

[near ocean]

🤷‍♀️ some people are beyond helping

[hidden crystal]

WAIT , real shit, should i get linkedln , everyone has it but like idk. is it useful

[shy sigil]

You dont have to take everybody's advice, anyways I think you've extended past what this channel can offer you now
you had a good idea going - #career-advice message

[gritty rivet]

You need real role models who aren't selling you a dream on social media. This relates to my comment about LinkedIn.

[hidden crystal]

Were past done with my problem 10m ago. were talking abt other stuff now

[hidden crystal]

thats ur opinion tho 😭 Everyone whos smart would drop out immediately. literally the biggest ppl on earth dropped out.

[gritty rivet]

There's a lot of influencer nonsense on there but it's basically a must. Just one of the useful things about it is that you can search for people who graduated from a certain degree program,.who work for a certain company, etc.

[hidden crystal]

Ohh, can u msg ppl on there? is it similar to ig

[graceful owl]

imo i don't really see the point of linkedin precollege/university

[gritty rivet]

Yes, you can DM there. It's very vaguely like IG or Facebook, yes, but for professionals and businesses

[hidden crystal]

Fr, im like 17 😭

[near ocean]

No offense but those people dont ask on discord whether they should stay in school or not

[hidden crystal]

real shittt 😭 i should get off and come back to this if i get big

[near ocean]

They have life figured out and they have their rich parents to help

[gritty rivet]

I brought it up because it's the easiest way to know how graduates from a specific program are doing professionally

[hidden crystal]

But yeah im not gon go anywhere in life if im asking advice on a python discord server

[deft herald]

Usually the reason for dropping out is "i'm spending too much time on this business already and there's no point in me continuining school", not "i want to drop out of school to start something new that i don't know will succeed or not"

[hidden crystal]

thats what i said 😭

[deft herald]

Oh, i just jumped back in to the convo sorry

[hidden crystal]

he said this tho

why would u stay in school if ur rich asf. Itll js bring u down

[true harness]

respectfully, you are not them. you would know

and, on top of that, if you are truly exceptional, imagine how much more exceptional you would be with a related degree

[hidden crystal]

I never said im them, nobody wants to dropout, hes just making an arguement abt it thats completely wrong.

If u had smth else going on for u and ur making like 10m$ rn . Wyd?

[near ocean]

Nobody was making that much money early on

[hidden crystal]

ok but now ur contradicting urself. U said "no matter how much money or success in the world, u should drop out."

[hidden crystal]

so many ppl were 😭 the ppl that built the apps / websites u use. ur fav artists. etc

[graceful owl]

trust us, the people that made the apps/websites we use were not making 10m a year during college lol

[hidden crystal]

ok i pulled 10m out my ass. but like 1m+ is still way more than enough for u to get outta college n pursue it

[graceful owl]

they won't be making 1m a year either lol

[hidden crystal]

BROO what 😭 bill gates?? kanye?? drake?? do u want me to go on

[lilac fable]

Just looking for maybe some community advice, I've been doing Python for probably about 8 months and it's fun. I've gotten into working with Django and building full-stack web applications and that all is fun but that's not my problem in the major sense. When I think about development of stuff, I hate that I don't know what's going on at the base levels. I want to know WHY when I'm connecting to a database, it's actually connecting to the database and how. I know eventually I could probably find a job going down the Python/Django rabit hole but I just don't think that's what I want to do. I want to get into more of lower level and understanding why things work, does anyone have any advice other than just "Learn C++"? For example, possible careers in what I'm describing, and what I might need to learn.

[shy sigil]

I think old man mar, bsc msc was saying that regardless of the money you're making you shouldn't drop out
#career-advice message

[smoky quest]

Most companies/startups won't pull any income at the beginning. They will work towards equity

[hidden crystal]

why 💀 ? thats just torturing urself more

[near ocean]

You mean entire teams of devs?

[smoky quest]

There is value in education and being skilled. This is something people will cherish and why they might regret dropping out or go back to school later

[hidden crystal]

mark made twitter at 19 😭 and he was already pulling income, then he quit college

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Is there a question?

[shy sigil]

not saying i particularly agree

[twilit portal]

Only one of those is tech-related and he's literally one of the richest people in the world
For every Bill Gates there's probably like a million people who tried to do a similar thing and failed

[lilac fable]

It's at the very end

[smoky quest]

Ah!
In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[hidden crystal]

What abt thugs or ppl that dgaf abt college 😭 and dropout and make smm. Ur thinking abt like scholars n stuff particularly

[smoky quest]

MZ didn't make twitter and he did not pull millions in his first month.
He also comes from a rich family and had the support and coaching from VCs

[true harness]

for the specific topics you mentioned, some knowledge of networking may go a long way

[smoky quest]

thugs don't live long enough to regret

[hidden crystal]

Crazy statement 😭

[near ocean]

Is it wrong?

[true harness]

I think we are talking about CS, right? let's not bring unrelated career paths in

[smoky quest]

bro needs to get real

[lilac fable]

So something in specific I'm interested in actually revolves around how voice channels transmit voice from one person online to another so I think that's pretty solid advice.

[hidden crystal]

no were not talking abt cs 😭 he said u shouldnt drop out of college no matter how succesful u are. im js simply saying hes wrong

[hidden crystal]

u not wrong 😭 tho

[lilac fable]

I'm starting a Computer Info Systems degree at my local community college that will transfer to a 4 year college where I can get my Computer Science degree.

[true harness]

networking courses should be available to you, definitely pick one up as an elective if you can. I had a lot of fun in mine

[twilit portal]

So what about the jobs where a good understanding of networking would be helpful? What are they?
I assume webdev, but are there any besides that?

[deft herald]

@hidden crystal I have a homework assignment for you. Go binge watch the entire HBO series Silicon Valley and assume that it's actually a pretty accurate depiction of what goes on in the tech startup world

[leaden jasper]

The context of this channel is for careers in computer science/software development and other python-related jobs. We stay specific to that area in discussions here.

So I'm going to be a bit more firm that we stay within the realm of that topic and not discuss how Drake became successful (because it's not relevant for this channel).

[hidden crystal]

Ok wait, does this mean u were talking abt cs ppl , and not js any randomass person whos succesful and drops out @near ocean cs i still think im correct 🔥

[graceful owl]

cybersecurity (from experience) lol, embedded as well

[smoky quest]

Congrats!

[deft herald]

Working on actual network devices; either as an embedded engineer or anything higher level in their stack

[hidden crystal]

Is it free, im broke asf

[true harness]

networking 🗿. as an application developer, networking won't be that useful apart from basic understanding of what's happening. but creating network infrastructure to support the app devs will use that knowledge

[smoky quest]

anything that might involve a network. Cloud/SRE, backend, iot, etc.

[deft herald]

Anything in the comm industry as well

[twilit portal]

Oooh, I like the sound of embedded
Do you think it's possible to get into embedded from a "lower skill level" instead of going for a degree? For example if I work repairing electronics then break into more embedded-related stuff?

[gritty rivet]

Obvious but maybe worth mentioning: network engineering

[deft herald]

No there's not much overlap there. You'd want a CS or CSE degree

[true harness]

(or CE or EE, depending on what you're looking for)

[deft herald]

Yeah lol forgot that i was EE for a min

[twilit portal]

lmao

[twilit portal]

Can you please elaborate on "not much overlap?" Like if I work on electronics repair and do stuff with microcontrollers and stuff like that in my free time to learn it, the employers in embedded wouldn't find it useful?
I'm making an assumption here that I'll get the skills I need for the job but will not have a degree to prove it

[smoky quest]

iot/embedded also has a lot of weird dual disciplines. So I forgot what was your other degree, but if it's in bio something, there can be interesting things.
For instance I do see a lot of people without a CS/CE/EE tinkering with industrial automation tools and leveraging their non-tech degree

[smoky quest]

It's a high tech field which requires highly skilled engineers. You would have more chance as a self taught to get in frontend

[deft herald]

I just mean that tinkering around with circuit boards is not the same skillset as devloping an RTOS in an embedded device

[twilit portal]

I see, thank you

[twilit portal]

Yeah, I think frontend might be a better choice for me then, I'll look into it. Thank you!

[smoky quest]

see also #career-advice message

[delicate swift]

That would require for them to pay me veeeeery generously.

Presuming that I'm that worthy to them, I'll make sure to compensate myself for closing doors for their sake

[smoky quest]

they don't pay you. They invest

[near ocean]

Its a bad investment on their part

[delicate swift]

Oh, we're talking as in, investing on a startup I own?

[twilit portal]

Yeah, industrial automation is very interesting to me but I don't have a degree at all
I was hoping maybe I could go to a trade school or something and then get a job repairing those tools and then eventually if I have the skills I could get a more engineering-related job but maybe that's a pipe dream
Webdev is also really interesting to me anyway

[delicate swift]

That's different I suppose. And I don't have enough knowledge on that sort of stuff to have an opinion

[smoky quest]

All else being equal, then they would not have invested

[smoky quest]

The things I am talking about is less about repairing stuff and more about hooking things together from sparkfun and nodered (gross exaggeration)

[near ocean]

What else being equal tho? It sounds like they wanna fuck up your career progression by dangling enough money in front of you to forgo your degree
That would have to be a lot of money

[twilit portal]

Sparkfun is for circuit building right?
So circuit design and stuff
I just thought repairing could get me closer to those jobs because it also requires understanding circuitry and it would get me the domain knowledge and make it easier to demonstrate to employers that I understand how these things work

[smoky quest]

Believe it or not, their goal is not to go around and fuck up people's careers. We already have social networks for that.
Their goal is to invest in businesses and people they think have a chance to make it big. As such, it's reasonable to think that a full time education is a distraction

[smoky quest]

sparkfun is a website that is focused on electronic kits and components. They sell a lot of kits and composable parts that make it so you do not need to know wave propagation theory and can just plug modules

[fringe sphinx]

As a founder, I wouldn't be surprised by this tactic... but investors don't (imo) get that deeply involved in staff hires. I'd be more surprised that they'd hire non undergrad holders... but wouldn't be surprised if they expected, say, PhD candidates to put it on hold.

So, doesn't seem likely or sensical to me to hire juniors and ask them to drop.

[near ocean]

For them it might be reasonable
For you the employee its not reasonable to give up a degree unless the money is setting you up for life

[smoky quest]

Just for clarification, I am referring to founders.
Like VCs hosting parties for Stanford students is a good example of how they try to identify potential founders to invest in. But there are already quite enough students trying to make their own startups anyway

[twilit portal]

I see, thank you
I would assume an Arduino and a breadboard would get you the same skills but I'll look into sparkfun

[smoky quest]

I have seen employers trying to discourage interns/employees to go back to school for masters and drop out with their bsc.

But I was referring to founders specifically as it was the context of the conversation (bill gate, zuckerberg, etc.)

[smoky quest]

sparkfun is a website selling arduinos, rpi and breadboard. That's their relationship

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, but I also doubt they're pushing undergrads to quit. Seems more like a masters/phd thing.

[near ocean]

Im not sure thats the scenario hsp was talking about

[true harness]

sure, but the level of knowledge that a backend web dev needs to operate is much less than other networking focused jobs

[smoky quest]

I have seen all sorts of situations 😉

That's with hindsight.
At the time, it's more like:

• You are starting a start up
• You may or may not have skyrocketing usage
• Someone comes to you and offer you to invest 3 millions $ for 30% of ownership

Knowing that most startups will fail and thus success ain't guaranteed. For one facebook that succeeded, you have 100 others that ended up with the founders broke and without a degree

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I was just pushing back in the general theme that this is a widespread thing, vs an anecdotal/occasional thing

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't consider "students founding their startups" as a widespread thing anyway

[fringe sphinx]

If you have a Facebook level startup pre undergrad, I think you may dropout on your own.

[smoky quest]

Sure. And the terms would be far more favorable if you have such wildfire on your hands

[white relic]

it's worth noting that 3 million to invest in a startup isn't just 3 million you now have to live on the rest of your life, it's money you have to invest back in your startup idea

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, you'll just get a regular salary plus stock for a VC backed startup

[white relic]

unless it's an actual buyout, which wasn't facebook's case

[smoky quest]

Yeah, you then have to manage your runway, costs, etc.

[fringe sphinx]

If we're talking pure hypothetical, I wouldn't. VC is terrible money with big handcuffs

The 'way' is bootstrap: build, acquire early customers, maybe some friends and family $$, and defer VC as long as possible

Also reality is no VC would jump to an A round level investment in an unproven team. Probably more like an incubator or seed money to flesh out idea, which might get a true investment round

My startup CEO (many jobs ago) became a VC. I'm just echoing his advice: he said - you don't want our money, and especially not when you have no leverage (revenue/proven idea, etc)

Fully or just initially?

"Many of the successful companies that we see today had their humble beginnings as bootstrapped enterprises. Examples of these include:

Dell Computers (DELL)
Meta (META), formerly Facebook
Apple (AAPL)
Clorox (CLX)
Coca Cola (KO)
Hewlett-Packard (HPQ)
Microsoft (MSFT)
Oracle ( ORCL)
eBay (EBAY)
Cisco Systems (CSCO)
SAP (SAP)" - https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/082814/companies-succeeded-bootstrapping.asp

[white relic]

it's a neat thing about software that the startup costs can be incredibly low for a big idea, even with users, until you have to start scaling

[fringe sphinx]

Was it WhatsApp or Snapchat that grew with 20 engineers to millions of users?

[white relic]

however, it's also very easy for a big company to see your idea and use their resources to copy it faster than you can scale up, if you're trying to go fully bootstrapped, so that cuts both ways

[smoky quest]

whatsapp with billion of users

[smoky quest]

facebook

[white relic]

I know Notch made enough money on Minecraft to quit his day job while still completely independent

[fringe sphinx]

I'm more interested by companies that fully bootstrapped (never took outside money and, perhaps, stayed private)

[white relic]

I'm not sure if Mojang ever got major VC funding before selling out?

[hidden crystal]

Yeah so im right

[white relic]

importantly, in order to quit his day job, he had to at first have a day job

[smoky quest]

you just need to build something as successful as minecraft

[hidden crystal]

We not in 2010 anymore 😭

Everyones grown up wit social media n stuff

[fringe sphinx]

What's your take? Unclear from the above.

[hidden crystal]

how are there so many mods in this server

[fringe sphinx]

Do you know how many users there are?

[hidden crystal]

discord.gg/python

Yo wtf 😭 400k crazyy

[fringe sphinx]

!ot This is off topic.

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[inner hemlock]

so happy right now. those interviews were very stressful

[deft herald]

aaaay nice

[raw vale]

Are certificates completely useless?

[near ocean]

Depends, cloud provider specific certs are useful, aws stuff gcp azure etc

[fringe sphinx]

There are many certificates, and many uses.

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe be more specific?

[raw vale]

I mean languages ceritficates

like python and javascript

[fringe sphinx]

And what use do you want them for? What job? And what other education do you have?

[raw vale]

Right now I have no any education, wanted to get them to track my progress, and put them on the side while showing university degree once I get it

[fringe sphinx]

The programming certs aren't useful for programming jobs, in short. You can complete CS50p without paying for the cert, but just consider that these certs are very basic/intro. By themselves, doesn't mean anything

[flint epoch]

I finish python course and I don't know were to get certificate

Any recommendation

[gritty rivet]

Nobody cares about Python certificates. Just build stuff.

[deft herald]

Hey i'll sign a certificate for anyone who wants one

[fringe sphinx]

Would you like a degree from the University of BillyBobby?

[fast fossil]

yes, please

"special offer: only $999 $3999"

[rich axle]

looks nice on ur linkedin as long as you're not actually applying for dev positions lmfao

[fringe sphinx]

Oh that's a good way to put it

[hidden crystal]

!ot Please respect our rules here

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[hearty island]

My I-9 is here!!

[mossy kettle]

hi bobby hows it going?

[cinder jasper]

Hi

[regal axle]

My new job wants me (and I do too) to start on around the 5th. Yay. But. ,,, I don't live in that city yet. Yay. Time to rush to find a place to live. Or maybe live in a hotel for a little. Idk. But I guess that means that I am going to have to not move with all of my stuff. And ditch some things. Oh well. The timeline where I go to work while living in a hotel is very interesting. We see how that goes 👀

[brisk cargo]

do you have to start in the office on the 5th? usually they give you a few months remote to relocate

[peak halo]

did they know you don't live in the city?

[regal axle]

Yea. They just gave me a bigger signing bonus to help with the move.
And the tight turn around is mostly from myself. They were fine if I told them to give me like a month or 2. But I am ready to work now. And don't really want to keep waiting. So it is my own fault. Just going to be fun next month. And by fun ,,, well we shall see :D

[white relic]

I know one guy who left his job on a Thursday and started a new one on Monday...
1,200 miles away by car
moved, sold or scrapped everything in his apartment

not saying this is necessarily a course of action you should imitate

but, hey, you've got more time than he gave himself

[regal axle]

Lol, yea. I don't have much to my name. So the move is simple. Could fit everything in 2 suitcases and a carry-on.
I have heard that apartments will show up and get taken in 4 day periods. So,,, maybe I can find a place by than. Maybe not. Oh well.

[white relic]

US based?

[regal axle]

I am not worried too much. I am going to get a broker and they will do the searching for me. Makes things easier

[white relic]

with 2 suitcases I would probably try to get a hotel for a week or so assuming your sign-on covers that

cheap extended stay or even an airbnb while you look for a permanent situation

[regal axle]

Oh, it does. Yea, I am going to look at making a deal with a hotel. They sometimes are willing to work with you if you are going to stay for a long time.

[white relic]

yeah, that's smart

[regal axle]

It will be good becuase one of the things I care about, is commute time. And I can actually feel the commute time and not just look at a map 😄

[white relic]

I knew someone at my last job who lived a few hours away and didn't want to move. So he cut a deal with a hotel across the street from work, stayed at home on weekends and "commuted" Monday and Friday

always seemed painful to me but I guess he really didn't want to move so he negotiated the price of the hotel into his contract

[inner hemlock]

I'm starting a new job in 2 weeks, will have to commute 3 hours a day 😅

[regal axle]

I could never. I would die 💀
At least, there are some people that live very far out but they only come in once a month. That is more manageable

[regal axle]

Round trip? Or 1 way? It better be round trip

[white relic]

Congrats on the new job! You'll get used to the commute after a bit, most likely.

Find stuff to entertain you on the way. (Or start saving up to move...)

[inner hemlock]

That's round trip haha. I'll be bringing my personal laptop on the train and doing some game dev on the way. I wouldn't normally commute this way, but the opportunity was just too good (OpenAI)

[regal axle]

Is there a reason why you are not moving closer?

[white relic]

Ah, train

[inner hemlock]

Well, I just moved here a month ago 😅

[regal axle]

Ooof. That is rough

[inner hemlock]

Already spent a fortune on outdoor furniture and a grill haha. I think I can do the commute. It's only 3 days a week.

[white relic]

My wife has a similar situation but she has to drive it

[regal axle]

Well, you can do it. But there is a strong correlation between commute times and dissatisfaction with the job. It is something like for every 5 minutes over 30 minutes, you will be a non insignificant % more dissatisfied with the job.

But that is just stats. It doesn't mean you can't make it work and still be happy

[inner hemlock]

Worst case, yeah, I could move closer later on.

[crude jacinth]

what do you think about the future of coding in the age of LLMs?

[pine sleet]

it may help developers as a tool

[inner hemlock]

I think LLMs are already able to give massive productivity boosts to skilled developers, but they have limitations in terms of their long-term reasoning ability and how much context they can take in reliably. For many tasks, they already have superhuman performance in terms of speed and accuracy. Currently they start to fall over after around 500-1000 lines of code, so it still relies on carefully picking the relevant context and prompting step by step. I think over the next few years, many of these limitations could be lifted. If so, the types of features, projects, and improvements that can be done on a larger scale by one developer will drastically increase. Though, even at current levels, it's a huge boost as a tool if you know how to use it.

[crude jacinth]

do you think ML engineers specially those with strong mathematical bacground will be the most in demand proffesionals in the coming years?

[fringe sphinx]

Predictions are hard, especially when they're about the future.

[inner hemlock]

The world will always need software, not just ML.

at least, until superintelligent AI replaces us all 🙂

[regal axle]

Good ML needs good SWE. I have seen some of the ML code people write... it scares me. It is not good code. (obv not all of it)

[peak halo]

if you have the credentials to be an ML engineer, which includes the strong mathematical background, you should be able to land SWE positions that don't leverage all of your theoretical knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

I love it. More job security!

[crude jacinth]

yesterday saw this websim.ai I understand it's just like a game, but it can do pretty much impressive stuff now and when you about 5-10 years from now it just feels so... 😢 at the same time it's good for people with no coding skills... and more

[peak halo]

there's no way that AI is going to fully eliminate software engineering as an occupation. even in the scenario that it reduces demand for junior devs in the next 10 years, you still have time to enter the industry.

(I am a computational linguist and work on the development and analysis of interactive language models all day.)

[crude jacinth]

I have some skills with python and stuff, now focusing more on ML, also going to get my math degree soon, but sometimes just having these doubts about job safety

[hidden crystal]

guys please help me 😭 #1265036286108897432
itss been 3 hours

[fringe sphinx]

You know this isn't the channel.

[hidden crystal]

python discussion dead 😭

[peak halo]

Not an excuse.
Please message @severe widget if you have any questions about rule 7. We'll expect you to be fully complaint from here on out.

[hidden crystal]

why u minimodding 🤦‍♂️

[peak halo]

minimodding is when someone who isn't a mod does it.

[hidden crystal]

oh wait
WAIT im sorry, i thought u were just a member

[peak halo]

regardless, you should follow all staff instructions.

[hidden crystal]

whats rule 7

[peak halo]

read #rules

[kind grove]

hello folks i am kind of lost and i really need some guidness or any kind of advice. so i am a mechatronics engineer and i have academic knowledge in ml and robot vision. to be able to find an online job, what fields or job titles should i improve myself in

[peak halo]

by "online job", do you mean "remote job"?
what degree do you have?

[kind grove]

yes that is what i was meaning ...... i have an undergraduate degree and now i am pursuing a graduate degree

[fringe sphinx]

You want a part time job while studying for grad degree? Have you looked at on campus jobs/etc?

[kind grove]

well the thing is i want to be specialized in a field that can secure me a remote jobe related to ai,ml,robot vision.

[fringe sphinx]

Im not sure there's any data/evidence to suggest which specialties are best for remote jobs. I haven't seen anythjng

[kind grove]

well this is heart breaking

[fringe sphinx]

What is?

[kind grove]

correct me if i am wrong but i understanded fron your replay that there is no such a thing ( a remote jobe related to ai,ml or robot vision)

[fringe sphinx]

That's not what I said

[kind grove]

my bad would you like to explain

[fringe sphinx]

I said I don't think there's any data that tells us which SWE or DS specialty has the most remote jobs

[kind grove]

this is not what i am looking for too i just want suggestions on remote jobe titles so i would improve myself in hoping to get one

[fringe sphinx]

Let me say it differently: i don't think anyone can answer that (which titles have most remote jobs). You should go to LinkedIn and look for remote jobs and see which are interesting that you might be qualified for

[kind grove]

i just dont know what remote jobe i can do with my knowledge

my friend i get you but you are not understanding me

lets say if someone knows ml,ai,robot vision what jobs can he do remotely ?

[open ivy]

Non-remote coding jobs demand higher salaries to pay for:

1. The danger of the commute.
2. The cost of the commute.
3. The time of the commute.

So remote pay you may need to accept a lower salary, and you may still end up taking more home!

[true harness]

is there any data to back that up? i haven't seen that

[regal axle]

Your steps were wrong but you still ended up with the correct answer.

[kind grove]

well remote jobs are not an option in where i am living lol

[open ivy]

They are making the employees waste time and money doing a dangerous task? Why wouldn't there be a premium for that?

Alternativly, remote jobs could require more years of expirence for the same pay?

But it would be nice to see the data, as you said.

[stiff basalt]

They don't pay more because of the danger, and very very few jobs pay you while walking to your work if any do at all lol

[true harness]

there are a lot of reasons that seem logical, but might not be, or that are logical, but aren't true

[open ivy]

Most people in the US don't walk...

If they don't pay more, then why even get an in-person office job?

[fringe sphinx]

There's a wide range of in office jobs.

[open ivy]

Easier to get an office job in Python than remote?

[fringe sphinx]

Nowadays, they're a lot more flexible than they used to be

[kind grove]

plus working remotly you wont be needing transportation health care buying new clothes spending extra money on hotdogs

[stiff basalt]

That is true most don't walk in the US but my point still lies with via bus, car, train, airplane etc.
Why? Simple the fact you get your own personal work space (sometimes, not always)

[fringe sphinx]

And many include some remote days... like: 3 days in office is becoming popular

[stiff basalt]

Not true, I'd argue you'd buy more hotdogs from home than you would at work 🙊

[open ivy]

I guess remote is gradually taking over. In terms of average days in office per week in Python jobs, as a metric, with hybrid counting as in-between.

3/week is quite a bit less than 5/week.

[kind grove]

but guys i am not trying to be an attention seeker here but what about my question )'l

[fringe sphinx]

I just don't think full remote is growing, hybrid is normalized tho

[kind grove]

or made them in home

[open ivy]

1/week sounds ideal for me, since that is the amount I need to feel "socially connected" with someone.

But 3/week would still save 200 one-way trips per year!

[stiff basalt]

What's your question

[kind grove]

...

[stiff basalt]

Programming, but with those types of careers may require some in person meetings

[fringe sphinx]

Well, what kind of jobs can you do in person? Generally the remote jobs are more or less same title/job description as in office.

[stiff basalt]

I'm not entirely sure what robot vision is so was not based off that

[open ivy]

I think you spend more money on food on the go.

Just because it's hard to carry your kitchen.

Even if cooking time is counted as "work", and you avoid high-end restaurants but want decent meals, cooking still can be competitive with work up to ~100k of take-home. Meaning you save work-hours if you cook because you save money, unless you make 150k+ or so.

[fringe sphinx]

Ie: roomba's

[kind grove]

facial recognition hand sign recognition open cv ..... etc

[stiff basalt]

Not true u can get a backpack put a solar panel on it put an electric powered mini fridge and not only will you always have food but you would be gaining muscle lugging it around

[true harness]

get a lunchbox ?

[fringe sphinx]

I love where you went with this.

[stiff basalt]

Oh nice skills I would look into company's you are interested in and see which jobs are remote and else wisd

[kind grove]

well idk

[brave matrix]

not really 3 yoe, but almost including the freelance... feedback appreciated

[open ivy]

I am much more athletic running-wise than weight-lifting wise...

[fringe sphinx]

Are you really just asking what kinds of jobs can you get with a degree in CS?

[stiff basalt]

Impact on what

[brave matrix]

lol whathever needs to be done idk

[stiff basalt]

Valid valid

[fringe sphinx]

Opposite, I hate running

[brave matrix]

I'll fix that

[kind grove]

CS ? i am a mechatronics engineer lol but i want to work remotly smt realted to ai ml and such but i dont know how to start or what shall i be looking for or improve my self in

[stiff basalt]

Be specific put it in your resume "to make a significant impact on the company" but I would use "to make a significant impact for the betterment of the company"

[fringe sphinx]

How's your coding/SWE skills? Be really good at that, would be my suggestion (as a CS/SWE... not Mech)

[stiff basalt]

Even that sounds cliche maybe "to bring my skills and values for the betterment of the company" or smth like that just be specific and be original

[brave matrix]

yeah I dont really like writing these descriptions cause its hard to write that something authentic that isnt too long, and without sounding too cliche

[kind grove]

well i made a medicine detection algorithm (taking a video if a medicine and it will tell you what matrials in it and how many mlg) and controlled an irrigation system with google sheets

[stiff basalt]

I get what you mean but your resume is your first impression. First impressions are the most important the second is just as much as important as the first. Every impression of yourself should have 100%

[fringe sphinx]

If that kind of work interests you, you'd be applying to SWE positions but target companies or roles that have computer vision keywords

[stiff basalt]

Till you get the job and get to hide in your room in the dark coding for hours with no break and never seeing sunlight again (joking of course)

[kind grove]

great thank you for the advice

sorry if i gave a headache guys just trying to figuring it out

[brave matrix]

yeah of course. but idk if it makes a good impression to be concise and direct, or they rather see some corporate speak bs

[fringe sphinx]

My main advice is really just: spend some time looking at jobs on LinkedIn. Gather the data and information you need

[brave matrix]

I feel like the recruiters kinda like the cliche stuff

[stiff basalt]

I see, then don't make it be make it truthful sell yourself as if losing you is losing a coding prodegy

[fringe sphinx]

It's really subjective, but there's something in between. Substance without much fluff. It's hard to achieve, it takes many reviews.

[stiff basalt]

Remember your competing with others for the same position they don't want boring same ol same ol they want somebody who can get the task done fast, effectively, and with least amount of errors so sell yourself to there wants so they see you as a perfect candidate

[brave matrix]

I really need to do this

question is how to sell myself in such a way? maybe I'll ask chatgpt for some ideas

[stiff basalt]

Perfect using tools is very useful.
If you need critique let me know.
Just know that chat gpt does not know you personally and using a copyed text from it may sound robotic or lame

[brave matrix]

lol, he says:

Dynamic Data Engineer with 3 years of experience, renowned for exceptional skills in Python, SQL, and AWS. As a US citizen residing in Italy, I am visa-free and eager to bring my expertise to a Data Engineer role in Chicago. My innovative approach to data pipelines, API optimization, and interactive dashboards has consistently driven significant business improvements. Losing me means missing out on a coding prodigy capable of transforming data into actionable insights and propelling your organization to new heights.

[fringe sphinx]

This for your objective/summary?

(It's terrible, btw)

Your summary is least important thing on the rest, and probably not even helpful.

[brave matrix]

yeah dont worry, I'm not gonna use that 😂

[fringe sphinx]

Mentioning visa or citizenship or work eligibility is helpful tho

Especially if resume shows you are overseas and/or have a foreign sounding name

[brave matrix]

yep, learned that the hard way. was speaking to a recruiter the other week and she told me that usually with a foreign-sounding name she skips it right away but she decided to give it a chance, and was surprised I speak Italian even tho I grew up here ...

[fringe sphinx]

That's a bit extreme for SWE positions... nearly all resumes seem to have foreign sounding names

[fringe sphinx]

Why no education section?

[brave matrix]

I think I'll just go with this;

Data Engineer with 3 years of experience in building pipelines, APIs, and dashboards. Skilled in Python, SQL, and AWS. As a US citizen based in Italy, I’m visa-free and eager to find a Data Engineer role in New York City where I can apply my skills and make a meaningful impact on the company.

[fringe sphinx]

Visa-free is awkward.

[brave matrix]

because I didnt do a degree, I did a Data Science bootcamp, but its not aprecciated from my experience, so might as well ignore it

[fringe sphinx]

The 'based in Italy' part is also a flag for me

[brave matrix]

what you have against italians

[fringe sphinx]

Say something like: Italian based US citizen looking to relocate back to (your city)

[brave matrix]

I like that

[fringe sphinx]

I don't want the hassle of relocating someone, especially if they're not already committed to returning

[brave matrix]

thats a concern of mine, that they wont consider me because of that.
if it wasnt for my experience in Italy I would just pretend I have nothing to do with the country and that I'm interviewing directly from there, cause I can really be there in a matter of days...

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, just emphasize that. Or; not mention the Italy part

But I think it's fine if you're just saying the 'relocating to xyz city' part

[ornate frost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS4z20J06r0&list=OLAK5uy_knsh-_VDiggeJG8lh0sIStlgYt4rAFVII&ab_channel=Ambaa-Topic

[smoky quest]

Hi! Wrong channel

[restive acorn]

Heyyy

[cobalt moat]

Is there a name for an “internship” except it’s part time across several years instead of just 1 summer?

[smoky quest]

a job?

[cobalt moat]

A technical term…

Cause it’s clearly not a standard internship or a standard job

[smoky quest]

When/Who/How does the thing you describe happen?

[smoky quest]

Can you then explain it?

[cobalt moat]

I have explained it what more is to he explained?

[digital fjord]

I did this and it was just called an internship

[smoky quest]

What is the point of a multi years long internship?

Is it done in parallel with school?

[cobalt moat]

What did you think of your experience?

[digital fjord]

It was nice tbh, gave me something to do during college and was rather interesting. Wouldn't do it if it were something "simple" like the classic intern test positions

[digital fjord]

Yea, usually 10-20 hours a week

[cobalt moat]

Did it affect future career opportunities?

[solar stratus]

In college it helps bring you some good experience. And if you do well and stay in good standing over those years, they might get you a junior position once you graduate

[smoky quest]

Got it. Thanks!
In the USA/EU, I guess it would just be called a part time job

[digital fjord]

Don't know yet. Probably should be positive overall.

[cobalt moat]

What is the classic intern test position?

[digital fjord]

The key difference to a part time job would be that interns aren't expected to perform and such.

[smoky quest]

That's fair.
At least baked in.

[torpid birch]

What is fizz buzz?

[smoky quest]

I fail more than 50% of candidates by asking about writing a factorial function. Including seniors

[digital fjord]

Usually some variations on writing tests, manual testing and such. I'm sure it is also instructive to some degree, but I would probably go insane.

[twilit portal]

"if multiple of a number print string, if multile of another number print string2 and if multiple of both print string3."
^this is usually called fizzbuzz

[cobalt moat]

That’s taught in freshmen year lol

[torpid birch]

oh ok

I actually fumbled on the compare part, forgot that was not only if x % y but x % y == 0, he ended up telling me that i was still "missing something to compare"

and i completed it after that "tip"

we will see

lmaaao it was easy either way but also questioning network stuff was weird

yeah but not explain the theory behind what is happening with packets and protocols? Or is this normal?

[twilit portal]

Is there a particular answer you expect? What do you look for? Does it need to be efficient? Or just writing any factorial function is fine?

[torpid birch]

i see, well waiting for the answer now

[smoky quest]

just literally write it

can even do it with TCO if they can handle it

[twilit portal]

Ok, thanks

[inner hemlock]

Yeah, usually when I fail candidates, it's because they just couldn't write the code in time. Work faster. People waste too much time.

[hearty totem]

Not sure if joking, that's a terrible idea. I fail candidates for the opposite reason. If they can "get into the zone" write the solution without any help and without telling me what they're doing. IRL the first solution for anything will be wrong, no matter how fast it got writen. I'd better see a bloke talking back to me: "this is what i understood from the question, this is how I'm gonna attempt to solve it, and this is how I'm starting".

[steel bane]

Hey sup

[twilit portal]

How do people go through the effort to do that but don't learn the basics of programming
It's wild to me

Yeah, maybe that's the case

[brazen island]

I don't want to be contrarian but I think there's a difference between performance anxiety in an interview and not being able to do X.

Although, I don't fault you guys for doing it that way because you can eliminate a lot of grifters, at the cost of a couple of false negatives

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, a good coding question isn't about what they remember but what they can figure out (perhaps with guidance). Whether junior or senior

[naive reef]

Hey guys, any advice on my resume?
@hearty island @jaunty steppe @fringe sphinx @gritty rivet

[true harness]

I feel that by the time you are in an interview, you would have written enough for loops to do them in your sleep

[white relic]

Performance anxiety sucks and is understandable, but it kind of defeats the point of the interview in that as an interviewer I don't know why someone can't write a for loop, all I know is that I asked and they couldn't

[jaunty steppe]

Don't ping random people.

[twilit portal]

I don't know much about resumes but why is steak and shake at the top of work experience? Seems like the least relevant role
I've also often seen people go reverse chronological order for work experience, this might be better here

[true harness]

at first glance, it looks fairly sparse: i think your projects should have more detail about why they were interesting and why someone should care about them. likewise for your internship. no one cares that you worked in a warehouse or steak & shake. talk about what you did at your internship

[brazen island]

I think I wouldn't ask someone to write a for loop that has a portfolio but I'd definitely ask anyone else to fizz buzz

[true harness]

I mean, it's like asking someone to use the verb "to be" in a sentence

[jaunty steppe]

"2b or not 2b"

[naive reef]

my fault, the last time I sent my resume you gave me some advice I thought so I pinged you again

[naive reef]

yeah fair point, I'll change the order

[naive reef]

Got it, I appreciate the feedback guys

[near ocean]

It'll be 30 seconds of coding and if not that tells you their portfolio is a lie

[brazen island]

Honestly, I've never had to do a coding interview. Hiring culture is very different here. Many companies actually just scrapped theirs

It's not perfect, we've hired absolute grifters. It's a balancing act.

[fringe sphinx]

I always ask at least one coding question, usually something on level of a leetcode easy. For a while, BFS was my goto question.

I've said it before, but for some reason, most people forget how to bfs and default to dfs.

(Which is ok, and if they remember, I ask a harder one)

[near ocean]

I've sat on interviews with people from bootcamps to 10years exp
They all get fizzbuzz, more people fail it than you'd think

[crystal obsidian]

ive done a bootcamp
what are my odds at finding a job

all i know is python e'-e'

i dont even know what fizz buzz is e'-e'

ohhhh
i see

so some would possibly make a mistake at 15 since
both a multiple of 3 and 5
so would need to show FizzBuzz
as opposed to one or the other

it looks
cool

ill give it a go

any other
challenges like that, that i might get from a potential employer?

ah thank you

[near ocean]

2/2 of the bootcamp grad candidates we interviewed for my team failed fizzbuzz

[crystal obsidian]

ah

[near ocean]

And they werent just bootcamp people, they had degrees before they did the bootcamp, to pivot to tech

[crystal obsidian]

it seems fairly simple
but id still need to give it a go

as of right now i only kow python
been looking into getting into java and c#/++

[near ocean]

You should go deeper in the one lang you know before learning others

[crystal obsidian]

ah

[fringe sphinx]

Was going to say ^: you don't 'know' Python, you've just met it.

[crystal obsidian]

you make a good point
i believe ive barely scratched the surface

[ashen garden]

what do i choose?
bachelors in comp sc or comp engineering

[fringe sphinx]

Do you know the difference? (the tip is: research the difference, and career paths, and courses/degree requirements for each... )

[crystal obsidian]

fast api
important to learn yes?

my dad wanted to start me on it before i did the bootcamp

[gritty rivet]

I found a great job pretty quickly coming out of a Python-focused bootcamp. However I had a lot of other things going for me, as outlined here: #career-advice message

In this market my main advice would be that if you're serious about being an SWE and can somehow get a CS degree, you should (even though I'm personally squeaking by without one)

[gritty rivet]

If you know any one of the main Python backend frameworks well enough, you can get hired to work on any of the others. Better to know one really well then to have three simple projects one with each

[ashen garden]

I do, I'm interested in both of them
i'm more inclined to which field pays higher

[gritty rivet]

The one that will pay you higher is generally the one you're really good at. Look around at job listings and other data to know the job market on your local area, but focus on your personal strengths and interests.

[crystal obsidian]

i shall start my journey towards learning fastAPI

[gritty rivet]

This may be helpful if you haven't seen it: https://roadmap.sh/backend

[hazy tundra]

I am new to this discord ,i am sorry if i asked in the wrong channel.

Job prospects if i learnt python(final yr mbbs)

Hi, am a final yr mbbs student, being a doctor isnt something I would have imagined but i am here.

I see my friends studying for pg seats even seniors taking an year off for studying.
I thought enterence exam exam coaching was business,
Coaching for pg seats is still , so is for working as a doctor abroad.

I did like machines per se, i have only learnt c++/java
10th standard..i always loved the 10 mark programing questions..i would be lacking in a answering theory questions..but i always aced the 'write a program..'
Questions.

What are the prospects of a medical graduate in an programing field??? Learning python, getting used to different Libraries used for different stuff? An all..
I have only read surface level never dipped in python.

[crystal obsidian]

thank you sir i will not disappoint you e'-e'

[fading shell]

I’m going to do IT in uni next year, and I have zero knowledge on how to code and holding they’ll teach that from scratch

[gritty rivet]

You'll know the answer when you either get hired or give up 🙂

If you're persistent and dedicated enough, you'll find a way to make it happen

My main advice would be to seek out relevant "role models". Did anyone else pull off something similar, especially in your local area and/or from the same degree program? LinkedIn is a gold mine for finding such people if they are out there. Find them and take an interest in how they pulled it off

Personally I work at a small startup where something like half the Python devs have irrelevant degrees, but places like this may not be easy to find

[maiden canopy]

Why do I feel this is too complex for me I'm a 9th grader

And yea it's summarised with AI

[gritty rivet]

Please stop spamming the channel with whatever this is, a link would do fine if you have something relevant to say about this

[brave matrix]

when they say that so many ppl dont know fizzbuzz, do they mean not knowing the challenge itself, or not being able to complete it? cause its pretty easy

[lapis wind]

I think everyone knows fizzbuzz

[inner hemlock]

I see your point, and I agree that communication is crucial. To clarify, I'm not advocating for silent, heads-down coding. In fact, communication and collaboration skills are among the most important aspects, by far. However, I've seen candidates who spend too much time planning (like 20 minutes) without getting close to a working solution. The key is striking a good balance. Ideally, a candidate would briefly discuss their approach, start implementing while explaining their thoughts, and produce a working solution with clean, idiomatic code. This balance might vary depending on the role or company, but being able to both communicate effectively and produce working code within the time constraint is generally crucial for success in these interviews.

[lapis wind]

but it is more of a problem to see how you think, from its most basic POV, that task itself/game isn't hard, but there are many ways to write it

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> is this necessary or even allowed

[peak halo]

@maiden canopy this channel is not for linkedin-style content. Given its vertical length, your message has been removed.

if you're interested in guidance for learning AI, head over to #data-science-and-ml

[white relic]

the original point of fizzbuzz is that, actually, many people try to interview for coding jobs that can't actually code.
so yes, it's about not being able to complete it.

if you think "but surely anyone with even basic competence would be able to do that", yes, that's the point. Many people interview for jobs without basic competence.

[brave matrix]

yeah ig most ppl fail in handling the case of both correctly

[brave matrix]

the thing that frustrates me the most, is that many good developers cant get trough the first round because they're eliminated from the HR/recruiter before their technical skills are even examined

either because the recruiters dont understand the actual skills required for the job, for example, they might think you need to know a specific relational DB, when in reality if you know any SQL db you will be just fine,
or because you do not know how to sell yourself well

[white relic]

that can be a frustrating problem.

many companies hiring developers have way more applicants than they need, and technical staff aren't paid to go through resumes all day, so they pre-filter.

[brave matrix]

its tricky, but the solution is simply to make first screeneing stage technical, by using recruiters that have actual experience with programming

[white relic]

I don't think there's that many people who have sufficient technical expertise in programming to evaluate others' technical skills, but decide to go into recruitment instead.

Moreover, recruiters are often working with just the list of requirements that they were given by the hiring manager, they don't know what the role's actual requirements are.

[brave matrix]

thats definetly an issue

[brave matrix]

yeah I suppose a programmer would never go into HR as salary is lower, but also because many of us despise them, or at least I do

[white relic]

at my job all the resumes go through a technical staff member (sometimes me)
but we don't get faang kind of volume

also we mostly hire EE and physics

[brave matrix]

thats nice to hear, I think thats how it should be

[shy vessel]

are you allowed to talk about what you made here

[peak halo]

you're asking if you can talk about salaries? yes.

[shy vessel]

oh

[peak halo]

companies don't want their employees telling each other how much they make because they don't want certain employees to find out that they're getting underpaid.

but this is just a community server. we don't care about that.

[inner hemlock]

Some companies nowadays take to paying exactly the same, non negotiable salary, for all employees at a given level

[indigo locust]

You guys might want to consider taking the case.

[peak halo]

taking the case?

[near ocean]

What case

[true harness]

that doesn't make sense to me. either your levels are really granular and you have a lot, or there's a range for each role and as you get closer to the next role you get paid a little higher in the range

[white relic]

I suspect the real idea (with standard salary) is to cut down on office drama when Joe and Lambert have the same title but Lambert finds out Joe makes 50% more.

if Joe gets a raise, he just gets a fancier title and slightly different job description, rather than having the same job and different compensation

[inner hemlock]

Well, you can negotiate your level a bit when interviewing, yeah. This is how it works in both my current and my previous company (FAANG adjacent)

[inner hemlock]

Yep, it simplifies things

Everyone effectively knows how much everyone else makes because it's standardized. No secret there

[balmy mural]

Had my discussion with my manager who then spoke to our executive. They want a short "mini-CV" from me to use to look for oppertunities within the company in the Netherlands that match my skillset. Staying with my current team while moving is also not impossible, but the company generally tries to avoid people working for a client in a different country they're situated in. Gonna officially start with the first steps to get myself to the Netherlands now

I don't know my coworkers salaries, but all my friends from uni are very open about their salaries and we all graduated 1 year from each other. (Some of us studied an extra hear for an honours degree). I use that and average market values to benchmark my salary

[true harness]

coworker data can be really helpful for that reason. especially since you can gauge how they are performing

[balmy mural]

My company has a lot of reported salaries on glassdoor as well, so I've looked at that before to see if I'm at least being paid around the average in the company for someone with my YoE

At that point it could also be that the company pays pennies for all devs with a certain amount of exp. Two of my friends work for a company that really does pay terrible, but they're both very happy with every other aspect of the company, so they stick around for now

[balmy mural]

One thing I'm unhappy about this is, even though I had a discussion with my executive about this one year ago he said he'd keep an eye out for job positions for me. Since me updating him on my skills is step 1, it does feel like that wasn't completely true. Since I'm basically updating my CV, I'll probably start sending out 1-2 applications per week as well already to start testing the waters to see if I can land a position. If I get an offer I could use that as leverage to maybe transfer me immediately within the company

Probably have to start doing a few leetcode questions per week again as well since I'm pretty sure I'm very rusty on that for interviews

Yea, was only gonna start doing this end of the year, but since my CV is being updated now anyway, there's no harm in already sending out some applications

[true harness]

try the salary game. 3 rules:

• you can only play for yourself
• you can't play halfway
• you can't be mad
  then just ask people to do this with you and find out people's pay. plus, in the US, finding people's pay is legally protected

no you just tell people your pay then they tell you their pay

that's why you ask people to agree to the rules beforehand

maybe, but if you know you make more than them, why talk to them. the point is you don't know if you should get more relative to your performance

[fringe sphinx]

I remember finding out my coworkers made about 30% more than I did. I def resented that, even though they were more senior, we were still peers. Nothing good comes of that.

[true harness]

you said "if you know you make more than them...", so I took that as a given

[near ocean]

Why would they be resentful, unless youre being a pain in the ass and still make more

Two people joined my team last year and im certain they both make more than I do, but one of them needs constant handholding while the other knows what theyre doing
I'd only be mad the one that needs babying is paid more

[smoky quest]

It's also quite common for people to have an inflated view of their worth and impact

[pastel thunder]

Does notice period start immediately as you send you email for resignation?

[smoky quest]

yes

[pastel thunder]

Or is it after acknowledgement?

[smoky quest]

I never checked the legal definition

[pastel thunder]

So the issue is i am planning to resign on the same day when i would get bonus

So need to know wheather 60 will be completed or 59(in case acknowledgment comes next day)

[balmy mural]

Check your employment contract. That will generaly state when the notice period starts

[near ocean]

Yea i probably wouldnt do that

[balmy mural]

If your employment contract does not state anything specific, it's generally the day after you give notice

But I'd check specific laws for your country since that might vary

[pastel thunder]

agreement says,
“Either party can terminate by giving written notice 60 days prior to …”

[balmy mural]

Sounds like it's not specified then. Either check specific laws, or give notice for a period longer than the minimum required notice

[smoky quest]

don't do that

[pastel thunder]

So i am thinking 2 august to sept 31 will be 60 days

[pastel thunder]

Why????
Releaving letter issue?

[smoky quest]

Trying to plan down to the day you get the bonus.

It's far less headache to plan on when the bonus is in the bank

[pastel thunder]

Do you mean
Resigning on the day of getting bonus if fine but planning so far ahead is bad?

Yeah thats the plan

I hope they dont get mad,
Manager actually delayed my bonus, i dont want to work at all here,
And just dont want issues with releaving letter

[smoky quest]

I mean giving your resignation once your bonus is in your bank account.

There is a difference between being right and within your right to receive your bonus, and being pragmatic and avoiding potentially burning some bridges and taking your employer to court

[pastel thunder]

Am i risking it on releaving letter comment?
My manager has not been happy lately

@smoky quest @turbid bobcat

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, in general, don't expect a bonus if you've already resigned (or tendered notice)

[pastel thunder]

So the thing is he say he will release my bonus, i dont expect anything,
But just dont want issue with releaving letter and all those things

I too wanted the same, but offer letter says 1st oct joining.
I dont think i can create that gap

[smoky quest]

that's why you wait to have your bonus in the bank

[smoky quest]

What's a releaving letter?

[smoky quest]

how much delay does that introduce?

[pastel thunder]

Like mentions about tenure of employees

[pastel thunder]

1 day at max

As per offer letter

Have to join on or before

[orchid hare]

Hi everyone

Can anyone recommend me a yt channel from which i can listen python

[smoky quest]

Bro. You are talking about october, which is months away. One day is not gonna register

[smoky quest]

I don't have enough experience with Indian processes to speak about this specifically

[pastel thunder]

I think it will be safer to resign before month end
Will loose bonus
But if manager goes mad
He might write poor comments in my experience cert

[fringe sphinx]

Why would manager be mad? Employees leave jobs all the time.

[pastel thunder]

He is crazy enough to hold bonus, he can be crazy enough to do that also

[orchid hare]

Demn yall talking about job ig but im a student ☠️

[smoky quest]

"I am leaving because this company hold bonuses and does not deliver on its promises"

[fringe sphinx]

Losing your last bonus is not uncommon. Sounds like you have a choice: wait for bonus, or take the new job.

[pastel thunder]

Yup and bonus would likely come on 1st or 2nd

[smoky quest]

It might even possible to ask the new employer to make up for the lost bonus if they want you by a specific date. But it doesn't look like it would apply here

[pastel thunder]

They dont want to do that, just said 2-3 days flexibility is fine (verbally) after i insisted
Offer letter was very strict of date though

[fringe sphinx]

Also, Oct 2nd is a wednesday. Makes sense to agree to Oct 7th (Monday) as a start date.

[pastel thunder]

Man why am i in this crazy situation.
I dont want them to think i got bonus and left
But next company has joining date such that it would make it look like it.

And the crazy manager is sure to be mad about it, i cannot risk them mentioning my performance was not good

[fringe sphinx]

"why am i in this crazy situation": You? Everyone does this. This is normal. Everyone makes sure they get their bonus before quitting.

[pastel thunder]

Not the manager part😭😭

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? What manager is ever happy about people quitting?

It's perfectly normal to quit a job and take another job. It's perfectly normal to make sure you get your bonus. etc.

[pastel thunder]

He certainly just gave a green light to bonus, he was very mad before that( said performance is poor)

[fringe sphinx]

So what? How does that affect your decisions?

[pastel thunder]

I dont want them to mess up my experience certificate

Or character certificates

[fringe sphinx]

Isn't it the HR department that provides it?

And isn't it required by law?

[pastel thunder]

When i asked hr about delayed bonus, she literally mentioned my manager did that

[fringe sphinx]

The certificate.

[pastel thunder]

Delayed bonus

[fringe sphinx]

I'm responding to the certificate comment, not the bonus

[pastel thunder]

Thats something i will get on last day of notice period

[fringe sphinx]

You already said you're staying until you get the bonus. And that you're taking the next job. So your only concern was your certificate, which (I'm in US, but as I understand) is required to be provided by law.

As I undersatnd it: It's an alternative to employment checks in US (ie: calling previous employers to confirm dates of employment)

[pastel thunder]

I recently read a case where manager intentionally wrote poor remark on certificate

I was afraid after that

[fringe sphinx]

So you're worried about some "what if". In the US, employment checks only confirm dates and title. No more.

[pastel thunder]

Does it depend on company? I am indian by the way

[fringe sphinx]

In US, very few companies ever make remarks because of legal risks.

[fringe sphinx]

The basic question you should ask yourself are: What are your options?

[smoky quest]

Weren't they the ones that took 4 months to make an offer?

[fringe sphinx]

You could quit today, probably not get your bonus, and might still get a negative certificate.

Or, you could get your bonus, quit, and might still get a negative certificate.

[pastel thunder]

Yup

[smoky quest]

This is exactly what I did and it's normal. You are in a business transaction, you ain't committing treason against your family

[pastel thunder]

So, quitting after bonus, wont increase the likelihood you mean?

[smoky quest]

then they are just applying pressure onto you. I would be replying to them that they could make up the bonus as an incentive to make it easier to transition to them

[fringe sphinx]

I have no idea. Neither do you. Of the two choices, I'd take the money and go.

[pastel thunder]

My mom says the same😭

[strange pumice]

is 80k/year good for a software engineer

[fringe sphinx]

My suggestion is: Stop worrying about some petty manager who seems to be gaslighting you to feel inferior. Unless you truly are bad at your job, they're probably the bad manager for not giving constructive feedback.

[fringe sphinx]

I'll speak in senior engineer: "it depends".

[strange pumice]

im guessing it depends on location

[fringe sphinx]

For sure. And experience. And education. etc

[balmy mural]

Location, education, experience, specific field, etc.

[strange pumice]

entry-level

[gritty rivet]

Fresh out of an average university in the US, that's a pretty good target for an average market.

[smoky quest]

You can use https://carta.com/friend/ to get a sense of how you compare

[prime heath]

Is it really worth it for me to study computer science in the UK by paying more or just study in the UAE for a cheaper amount?

[strange pumice]

i guess i let the media space(tikok, youtube etc) to think anything below 100k is not a "decent salary" in the software engineering space

[smoky quest]

If you are in the USA, I would expect at least 6 figures for tech companies

[strange pumice]

it in US, entry level, right outta college

[gritty rivet]

If you live in a major tech hub, I'd agree six figures is standard

[strange pumice]

oh i studied in the UAE 😏 had a fun time there

[strange pumice]

Nah not a major tech hub, i think that is the trade-off

[prime heath]

oh thats cool, may i ask which uni if tahts fine w u?

[strange pumice]

yeah yeah i started out in NYU Abu Dhabi, then transffered to AUD

[prime heath]

ahhh okay those are good unis

[strange pumice]

i got a scholarship discount in NYU, tho didnt maintain it 😆

[prime heath]

Nyu is mad expensive

[strange pumice]

yeah when i lost out couldn't afford it again

[prime heath]

i had another question,
im interested in being a programmer in the future, so which course is more suited for me ? Software engineering or Bsc in cs

[prime heath]

ahhh okay i mean AUD is pretty good as well

[strange pumice]

erh yeah sort of, got its quirks

[prime heath]

yeah

[fringe sphinx]

SE and CS degrees are usually nearly identical, except for a handful of courses.

[gritty rivet]

Title of the program doesn't tell you much. Look closer at what a given program covers, what its recent graduates are doing, etc.

[strange pumice]

I'll personally say CS cause it gives you a well rounded knowledge of computing in a theoretical level.

After all Software Engineering is a field in Computer Science so you could customize your electives towards that(what i did).

however Software Engineering will be a specific niche, if you are super interested. CS if you want to be versatile and maybe decide to become an ai engineer in the future, or data scientists.

But these days in US at least, having a degree in anything could get you a tech job. so it's kind of irrelevant not totally.

[fringe sphinx]

SE degrees are a relatively new invention. I think of it more like a CS degree with a minor / specialization in SE. Take a look at the courses and decide which topics you care more about. I don't think it's a very significant decision, personally.

[prime heath]

right this helps alot cause as of now im not really sure where i want to specialize in but most likley as an AI engineer so i think im going to stick w CS

[prime heath]

right makes sense, thanks alot.

[smoky quest]

Specialize in what you enjoy and see panning out over 40 years, not what is popular today.

[fringe sphinx]

oh, also: you can change your major pretty easily in most US uni's.

[smoky quest]

Remember that it will take years for you to get that degree. And as an experiment, try to think about how it would be if you were to enter school 10 years ago. Things will be as different in 10 years as they are comparing to 10 years ago

[strange pumice]

at the end of the day, they are all a subset of CS.

[regal axle]

Yes. But also, schools take so long to make any type of change. So 10 years, things won’t be as different as you might expect.

[smoky quest]

Exactly. The fundamentals do not change because the theory remains applicable

[blazing cairn]

Can anyone here code a madfut bot?

If anyone can i am wondering if they can code one for my discord server (me and some friends is growing a discord server) if you code a bot you will get a very high role

[peak halo]

@blazing cairn this is the career discussion channel. but more generally, this server is not a place to solicit free (or even paid) labor.

[strange pumice]

What is the difference between associate and entry level

are they the same?

[peak halo]

if a company has "associate" as a level, it's probably the lowest level other than intern.

[strange pumice]

so another word for entry level

[peak halo]

Not necessarily. "entry level" means "any job that could potentially be filled by someone with no prior industry experience". That isn't guaranteed to overlap 100% with "year-round jobs that are tiered at the lowest level in a company".

At my company, new entrants with a masters (and no prior industry experience) start at the level above "associate".

[strange pumice]

ah i see

[pliant moth]

Hi guys do you have any tips for me to get a Django developer entry job

[pine sleet]

there is a saying that a cs degree is the path of least resistance with the most opportunities and compensation

[pliant moth]

I just finished the Uni and I have SE degree

[pine sleet]

good enough

we do resume reviews, if you want to post your resume here (with the personal info removed)

[pliant moth]

oh, well I do have a resume but I need to tweak it a little since it is outdated

but I will send the resume here yes

[smoky quest]

Bringing it up to date prior to applying would be a good tip

[hearty island]

I got another offer and I turned it down

it was less than the current, but even if it was more than the current I wouldn’t have accepted it.

[flint epoch]

Why

[hearty island]

Bc I gave them my word and signed the I-9

[flint epoch]

Ok

[smoky quest]

congrats!

[vapid jay]

Does anyone know how to deal with imposter syndrome?

[fringe sphinx]

Vote them out?

[fringe sphinx]

More serious answer: realize that imposter syndrome is how we all feel.

Citation: https://www.google.com/search?q=imposter+syndrome+site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Flearnprogramming

[smoky quest]

Step 0: Write down in a list all the things that worry you
Step 1: As you write them down, it will help you observe fears that are tangibles from fears that are intangible
Step 2: Congrats! You now have the intangible fears that you can realize are intangible and can be ignored. And you have a list of tangible fears, which gives you a list you can use to improve and derisk
Step 3: Profit!!!

[vapid jay]

Ok, I see. I'll try this.

[fringe sphinx]

Re forget the important: 'share profit with re' step.

[smoky quest]

most important step

[icy snow]

***# who needs developer? ***

[smoky quest]

Plenty of companies do

[vapid jay]

Best way to get into AI?

[smoky quest]

A degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[peak halo]

A degree is virtually a requirement, and it probably has to be a masters degree.

[vapid jay]

Where can I go w/o a degree?

[peak halo]

Maybe web development, but with the market as it is, you should probably consider other careers if you are not willing or able to get a degree.

[vapid jay]

Why does everyone say degree, I mean you can break into tech without a degree.

[peak halo]

Most people who try to break into tech without a degree end up failing to do so

[vapid jay]

I never fail

[peak halo]

If you're so sure of yourself, why don't you pursue a degree? It will be easier than whatever alternative you have in mind, and will have the greatest opportunity and compensation.

[vapid jay]

Not paying £45,000 for a degree

[true harness]

think of it like an investment

[peak halo]

Any alternative path will involve not making any money for a while. Probably for at least as long as it takes to get a degree.

[vapid jay]

It is not permissible for me to deal with interest.

[true harness]

investments don't need interest

[peak halo]

They can't take out student loans, is what they're saying.

As a matter of principle

[true harness]

oh right. I always found thay weird. I understand not charging interest, but not being allowed to pay interest doesn't make sense to me

[balmy spade]

I broke into tech without a degree. Given it to do over, I wouldn't even hesitate to get a degree. And I loath school.

[vapid jay]

If I could get a student loan without the need to pay interest, I’d do it, however interest is why I can’t do it

[strange socket]

dont student loans not gain interest if you pay a certain amount per cycle?

[vapid jay]

Therefore I must clutch onto alternative methods, so I need advice on this and where to start, is https://roadmap.sh/ a good place to start?

[balmy spade]

I wasn't objecting to your stance. I was offering you a point of view that isn't common here.

[strange socket]

that's how credit cards work. You pay up to a specified amount each cycle, the balance still due doesnt get interest charged onto it

[vapid jay]

Until you pay the full amount, interest keeps getting added on

[balmy spade]

Credit cards work very differently where you are than where I am.

[strange socket]

really? I don't get charged interest if I pay like.. 80% of my monthly balance and still have some due left over

[white relic]

If you cannot get a degree, that's that. You can still try to "break in" but you should be realistic and practical. You won't likely get a job in AI for example, and you can expect that it will take longer for you to get experience and a job than other people who have the advantage of education. But it isn't hopeless.

[strange socket]

yeah ai is one of those fields where a degree is incredibly helpful, because math and theory

[calm phoenix]

i need tips: i weigh 2336 ounces and im not sure what to do

[vapid jay]

Look at https://roadmap.sh/ it has an AI roadmap there, I was considering cyber security, however I know AI is the next upcoming thing, massive, so that’s why I’m trying to hone into that 1 topic

Is the roadmap good?

[calm phoenix]

^^^^ any tips? im 5'9 and weigh 2336 ounces

[fringe sphinx]

There are non-interest loan systems (I believe this is a Muslim tenet?), not all loans are designed around interest.

[vapid jay]

I don’t have a credit score for them to give me a loan of 45k

[calm phoenix]

i am trying to get down to 992 PLEASEEEEEEEE TIPS

[fringe sphinx]

What country are you in, if you don't mind sharing?

[peak halo]

If you can't get a degree, do not waste your time trying to get into AI. You almost certainly will not get a job. Your effort would be better spent focusing on a branch of development that is more attainable without a degree.

[vapid jay]

UK

[vapid jay]

Such as? If you could guide me on this

[white relic]

Getting a good credit score will probably take less time than finding a good job in software.

[peak halo]

Web development is what I recommended earlier.

[strange socket]

youre trying to lose weight...??? that seems like something better suited for like a weight loss server lol

[fringe sphinx]

Have you looked into apprenticeship programs? I don't know them well but many ppl here have mentioned them.

[calm phoenix]

BRO I WEIGH 2500 OUNCES WHAT THE HELL

[strange socket]

okay....?

[peak halo]

it seems like this is off-topic. please stop talking about this.

[strange socket]

I don't even know how to convert ounces to kg...

[peak halo]

please stop talking about this.

[strange socket]

but that's besides the point

[strange socket]

.

[vapid jay]

Extremely difficult

Thousands of applicants, limited spots

I wanted to make a business out of AI, initially

[true harness]

in the US, if you don't pay your full statement balance, you will be charged interest

[fringe sphinx]

If you're forgoing a degree, then consider entering the workforce in a non development job first. It's hard to land a job with no experience -and- no degree. But, with some work experience in a tech adjacent role (like support or QA), you may be able to open some doors ... or even work towards a degree part time.

[balmy spade]

While looking for that entry into the technology world, do not pass on any chance to learn critical skills such as (and not limited to) communication, team work, sales, marketing, and customer service.

[split citrus]

Hello, as a recent graduate am I able to negotiate my starting salary or should i just take what I can get.

[sly sonnet]

Are you looking for a job?

[split citrus]

I recently just got an offer.

[sly sonnet]

got an offer ? sounds great

[split citrus]

Yeah, I'm just worried if I negotiate they might rescind my offer.

[sly sonnet]

Then, @split citrus what do you need?

[split citrus]

Oh, I'm just reading that you should always try to negotiate

[peak halo]

@split citrus did you check what they're offering against Glassdoor?

[harsh river]

they want to know if negotiating is a risk to them

[sly sonnet]

negotiating what? salary? or technical stack?

[split citrus]

Oh salary sorry

[fringe sphinx]

(How does one negotiate a technical stack?)

[split citrus]

Yeah the minimum is 5k more of what I am receiving

[peak halo]

@split citrus unless you make a ridiculous request, they're pretty unlikely to pull the offer. They already spent a lot of time interviewing you and making a hiring decision.

[sly sonnet]

@split citrus I think you should show your skill and enthusiasm for that project enough

[peak halo]

But they might still say "sorry but this is the offer, take it or leave it"

[split citrus]

Yeah I am happy that I got an offer so I won't mind if they say no. Ill take what they give me.

[sly sonnet]

What's the company name? @split citrus

[strange socket]

That's so weird...

[tulip shoal]

LOOKING FOR A FULL STACK & BLOCKCHAIN & AI DEVELOPER?

Hello! I'm Ronald, a full stack & blockchain & ai developer with over 10 years of experience, specializing in blockchain projects. My focus is on creating and optimizing your project's main page, as well as designing and developing web interfaces for NFT games on blockchain. While frontend is my primary area, I also have solid senior-level backend knowledge and can contribute in both areas as needed.

I've worked with various blockchain networks such as Binance Smart Chain, Solana, Ethereum, Waxp, among others, consistently delivering high-quality results. Additionally, I have experience with AI technology and it gave me to work on AI projects.

If you're interested in my profile, feel free to contact me directly. I value both positive feedback and constructive criticism, as I'm always looking to grow and improve professionally.
https://jason-mendoza.vercel.app
Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to collaborating with you soon!

[vapid jay]

Is it ok for me to ask you questions?

[vapid jay]

Tech support job? Isn’t that a bit low though?

Would learning a skill first then utilising it be better? Should I fully neglect this path and just do down the path of sales and marketing (SMMA)? I think this would be a better route for me. Thank you, BillyBobby.

[smoky quest]

We don't do ads on this server. Please delete it

[smoky quest]

I mean, if you don't have a degree, you can't expect the same opportunities than folks who have studied the field in school all day long and every day for 4-5 years non stop

[smoky quest]

It depends on your leverage

[vapid jay]

Okay.. it hasn’t been non-stop. That’s an exaggeration.

[smoky quest]

nope

[vapid jay]

What should I do then?

[smoky quest]

I think the different paths were laid out pretty clearly. The choice is up to you

[vapid jay]

What kind of role should I apply to work for?

[smoky quest]

The ones that are the best match for your skills, education and experience. I know none of these about you

[smoky quest]

Remember that the less skilled, the more competition you have.
And even for highly skilled places, there are tons of applicants.

So your profile and skills must be pretty good to overcome all your competition

[zealous rivet]

is there job security in CS

[smoky quest]

sure

[zealous rivet]

proof?

[smoky quest]

skill issue

[zealous rivet]

everything i read says that theres no job security n shit and its making me rethink what i wanna do

[twilit portal]

😭

[smoky quest]

If you are good, people will want you

[smoky quest]

The market could be considered as bimodal. If you are in the top curve, then you won't have much to worry about

However as everything in life, nothing is ever guaranteed

[smoky quest]

Feel free to expand on your question too

[zealous rivet]

i read one reddit comment section and now ive lost all motivation to teach myself how to program lmao

[smoky quest]

how so?

How can a single reddit comment have so much impact on your motivation? Did they kill a puppy or something?

[zealous rivet]

no but its just dumbass people being nihilistic saying shit like "oh CS majors are easily replaced by cheap immigrant workers!!"

[smoky quest]

And do you agree with it?

[zealous rivet]

Maybe.

They might be right - they might not.

[smoky quest]

What's your take?

[zealous rivet]

I mean, it's possible that CS doesn't have the best job security.

Specific specializations of CS.

[smoky quest]

What would be the implication of something easily replaced by cheap immigrant workers?

And how does it relate to job security?

[zealous rivet]

bro i dont know??

but talking with you has made me like
not worry so thanks?

[pine sleet]

just know that there will always be demand for talented workers

[smoky quest]

think

[smoky quest]

like, if the jobs are easily replaced by cheap immigrants, then why are the jobs paying so well and so much above the median pay? Like why are entry level engineers paid 150k base?

[zealous rivet]

fuck, good point

[smoky quest]

All else being equal, if the jobs are so easily replaced by cheap immigrants, then they would be paid 15k$ per year. Not 150k$ per year

[trim crypt]

I've worked as a SysAdmin for 8 years, managing RHEL servers, Databases, a Scala app, maintaining firewalls and made internal tools to help alleviate customer problems until we can get the app fixed or improved. I aspire to be a full-stack dev or even a backend dev is fine. Should I start hitting up HR agents at US companies on LinkedIn or is that overdoing it?

[outer chasm]

yo what should I change my discord name to, btw I want a good non trademarked name I can use for other things

[near ocean]

That's not a careers related discussion

[gritty rivet]

If your resume demonstrates the skills needed for dev work, then you're ready to apply for dev jobs. And if it doesn't, then you need to work on a project or two and update your resume.

It's not either/or... There's very little harm in just sending out some applications if you think you even have the slightest chance

Feel free to share anonymized screenshots of your resume in this channel for feedback

[sharp furnace]

Hello, I’m sorry for asking this while a discussion is being had. I was wondering if anyone would like to give me advice on Python, I decided to start on Python and I was wondering what type of jobs can I get with the language. I understand that Python isn’t the only thing I need to know in order to start looking but I’m just mainly confused on what to study that will help

[gritty rivet]

The default preparation to work in programming is to get a CS degree

If you're curious about what kinds of jobs you might find where Python is used, you should search your local job listings. You're likely to see a range of things like data analytics, backend web and more.

You may find roadmaps.sh helpful... They have a general Python map as well as relevant specializations

[trim crypt]

Would it be wrong for me to say that I just use LinkedIn to build out my CV/Resume? So each time when someone asks for one, I just download a PDF of it from there and hand that over. I could add a few projects in there but have to carefully redact what I have (its a sensitive internal tooling webapp for the current company). But have a look at my linkedin here and let me know if what I have is favorable for dev jobs: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abdulqoyyuum/

[gritty rivet]

Please make screenshots so we can see them without exposing our own LinkedIn accounts

[true harness]

post a screenshot of what you are actually sending to people

[sharp furnace]

Okay thank you. One last thing, is it necessary to get a CS degree? Or is it a situation where jobs don’t care if you have a call degree as long as you can show u can do the job? I remember people telling me one thing and then other people telling me a different thing

[gritty rivet]

A bit of both. If you are serious about SWE work and can get a CS degree, you should. But there are plenty of us who don't have one. We're generally at a disadvantage but still doing ok

[sharp furnace]

Thank you, also I’m assuming SWE stands for software engineering?

[sly elbow]

i need help an python

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[patent hare]

Yo hello there ✋👋

[dreamy aurora]

Hello 👋🏾

[frosty moon]

"Hi everyone, my name is Abdull. I recently graduated from engineering college with a degree in Computer Science and Engineering (CSE) but feel like I lack skills due to study pressure. Now, I want to learn and earn. Are there any job opportunities in the Python language field?"

[dreamy aurora]

Is there enough junior backend jobs for python?

[patent hare]

Are there job opportunities in this server?

[frosty moon]

Any roadmap is supervised

[patent hare]

🤔

[gritty rivet]

No, please read the channel description

[gritty rivet]

You should check your local job listings and network with people working in your local area

Certs don't mean much for dev work. Build a strong portfolio and network with people. You can share anonymized screenshots of your resume here anytime for feedback

[fair monolith]

Write more code and build things you find fun. The more types of problems you have encountered and solved, the better.

[gritty rivet]

If you want a job working with Unreal Engine, then maybe, but that's a game dev framework right? Not my area but very competitive from what I hear.

Look around at the job market for an idea of what you're aiming for in your next opportunity and work back from there. You want to work on projects that demonstrate the relevant skills

[true harness]

are you looking to get into cybersecurity?

[gritty rivet]

Personally I went directly from help desk to Python dev a few years ago... My main project was a REST API built in Flask. The job I found with that is building API integrations. It's a customer facing role so my tech support experience was absolutely a plus

[true harness]

see the pins in #cybersecurity

[gritty rivet]

Proficiency in Python is definitely a useful skill if cybersecurirty is going to be your focus. And also if that's your focus, certs do have value. You could look into the CySA+ for example. Again it's key here to look at your local job market though and understand what employers are looking for

[plush obsidian]

hey how do i download a python studio?

[peak halo]

Hello, this is the career discussion channel. Try #editors-ides

[plush obsidian]

ok thanks

[hollow eagle]

i just want to discuss some of my scripts with others

[peak halo]

Try #python-discussion

[hollow eagle]

thanks

[safe pilot]

look im a 16 years old and i have plan about my website nad if any of you have a figma professional can i be part of organization cuz i really can't afford i have no bank account to pay the subscription

[gritty rivet]

Please delete, this is not a place to panhandle

[gritty rivet]

If you want to discuss free alternatives to Figma, try an off-topic channel

[safe coral]

Jesus 45 dollars an hour?!