career-advice

[true hatch]

I heard that uni is fun, but everything after elemantary and before uni is full of shit

Elementary school is great. I miss it a lot.

[ashen merlin]

HELLO

IM SRY CAN I DM SOMEONE AND SEND THEM A CODE AND THEY TEST IT PLSS

[true hatch]

whats ur major?

[ashen merlin]

DAm!

[true hatch]

fun or nah?

[outer rivet]

Does this recruiter look legit or sus?

[true hatch]

I wanna do Computer Science, I want to be cracked at math & coding 🙂

[lost cypress]

This role will not provide relocation. Are you in driving proximity to city, California?what does this mean? does it mean it wont provide financial help for relocation? or does it mean i am not allowed to relocate there if i live somewhere else?

[true hatch]

The thing is, Im mediocre at math and can't code

Alright I do still have a long way till uni

[true harness]

they won't give you money to relocate, but they'd probably be okay with you relocating for the job

[lost cypress]

okay cool thats what i was assuming, thank you

[true harness]

if you think you like computer science, you could try to improve at those subjects

[south forum]

Is there a job search discord server or reddit?

[true hatch]

there is, i cant send the link because ill get flagged ill dm it to you

[south forum]

Okay thanks

[true harness]

do you have projects that you've done on your own, that not everyone in your class did? additionally, what about projects that are more than just implementing an algorithm?

[fringe sphinx]

There are many companies in central London besides FAANG. Many of them SWEs very well. For instance, the many banks.

[wind plinth]

What type of projects do companies actually look for you being able to making?

I'm guessing they wont care if I make a new type of bogosort algorithm

[true harness]

the projects that demonstrate skills that they are interested in

[fringe sphinx]

For real: Don't think about projects as things for your resume. Think of them as things that help you learn.

By learning, your resume and interview will be good. If you do projects solely (cynically) to pad your resume, you'll probably end up as a weak interview candidate unable to engage in a conversation about the projects.

(happens way too often)

[wind plinth]

I normally just make projects that I find fun and interesting

Like if I find something that I think's really cool, I'll mess about with it a bunch and find out how I can use it

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so there's two ways to go here.... you can go deeper into a subject you already started in: try to become an expert in a specific thing. Or, you can take projects in things you know little about (breadth). Both are very good strategies, and can look good on a resume.

I complain about this a lot, but I really hate when candidates can't engage in a conversation about their projects: if it's just something you did for a few months last year, and barely remember, it's not terribly helpful in an interview.

[south forum]

anyone got any tips on how to get freelance developers

im struggling with that

[fringe sphinx]

How to hire them?

[velvet jewel]

Reassuring to hear this, the graduate job hunt is gonna be intense this august

[velvet jewel]

I started planning my projects around this and I’m also looking forward to them now in addition to them being more useful for me

[fringe sphinx]

I know this sounds like nonsense, but networking. Never have lunch alone. Invest in your social network. etc. London has quite the social scene, you never know who might know someone who knows someone.

[velvet jewel]

I used Eventbrite to find a bunch of tech events last year which helped a bit

[fringe sphinx]

++ networking isn't asking people for jobs. It's staying in touch with friends/classmates/etc, asking how they're doing, hearing about their work adventures, maybe asking for informational meetings (coffee/etc) to hear about their experience.

[velvet jewel]

I’ve kept that in mind from before, too

What do you do btw, if you don’t mind me asking? You sound experienced in the field

[fringe sphinx]

My generic answer is: I'm in data engineering. It's maybe a partial description at best, but good enough. Yah, I've got some grey hair.

[velvet jewel]

That sounds decent, don’t think I could see myself doing it tho but ynk

Im doing cs at a London uni rn

[true hatch]

is passion or money more worth in a job?

[fringe sphinx]

A more realistic description is: I build apps. They tend to be data apps, hence why I say data engineering.

[velvet jewel]

People here are so cracked it’s crazy

[fringe sphinx]

Have you visited Bletchley Park yet?

[fringe sphinx]

Hard to survive on just one of those.

[velvet jewel]

Haven’t heard of it, is it significant ?

[fringe sphinx]

Have you heard of Turing?

[velvet jewel]

Yes of course

[fringe sphinx]

Bletchley Park is where Turing worked during the war. That's perhaps an understatement. It's perhaps a 45min train ride north of London, and the computer museum is next door (which houses Colossus)

The history there is stunning. Bletchley Park was where they cracked the Enigma.

The stunning part to me was the sheer logistics and human effort involved with this, it wasn't some small side project.

[true hatch]

@velvet jewel @south forum i sent the link to yall check dms

[velvet jewel]

Thank you very much

[true hatch]

np glad to help

[harsh river]

there's only 1 war /s

[velvet jewel]

I’ve just looked it up it sounds sick

[true hatch]

there a quiz that shows you what career is best?

[pine sleet]

Probably. though there's probably not accurate

[gritty rivet]

No. Only you can define what "best" means for you.

There are quizzes that can measure things like your Holland inventory (aka RAISEC) which can help you identify careers that may be more likely to interest you than others. https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/RIASEC

[true hatch]

Alr

[peak halo]

especially since it should be MMAAA (microsoft meta alphabet amazon apple)

[fringe sphinx]

MMAAA

[true hatch]

what salary is good to live by yourself?

[peak halo]

depends on local cost of living. conventional wisdom is that you should spend no more than 30% of your pre-tax income on housing.

[true hatch]

don't taxes make you broke? like 40 Pacent?

[pine sleet]

depends on your location

different places have different taxes

[fiery tendon]

What tyrannical country has 40% income tax?

[pine sleet]

but no, they don't necessarily "make you broke" in and of themselves

[true hatch]

Bro idk anythin bout tax

[pine sleet]

some do

[true hatch]

is html easier than py?

[pine sleet]

html isn't even a language so probably

[true hatch]

py is not beginner friendly

[fiery tendon]

HTML is a markup language, there's no programmatic thinking involved

[peak halo]

No? Employers know how much of your salary will go to taxes, so that's taken into account when they decide what salary to offer you.

[fiery tendon]

Python is recommended for beginners to programming so it is comparatively an easy language to learn

[peak halo]

Python is often regarded as the quintessential beginner-friendly language. Where are you getting this?

[true hatch]

can yalll gimme an even easier lang than py

[fiery tendon]

Scratch https://scratch.mit.edu/

It's more visual

[fleet reef]

This looks very #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[fleet reef]

Ruby is often suggested
I don't entirely agree, but it is also very easy

[true harness]

i've heard "MANAMANA"

[true hatch]

Is ruby even easier?

[pine sleet]

you easy "easier" but the "difficulty" of a language really depends on what you're doing

[fleet reef]

And what syntax makes the most sense to how your brain works

[peak halo]

@true hatch if you're done asking about careers, please go to a different channel.

[pine sleet]

imo you should stop overthinking "what language is the easiest" and just find some project you think is cool and start working on it

[true hatch]

😬 sorry

[summer roost]

as for taxes, even if your effective tax rate is somehow 40%, only getting to keep 60% of your pay is still way better than not having a job and not getting any pay

[fringe sphinx]

did you not click my link? #career-advice message

[vapid jay]

. . . . . .Does a text to image generator I learned how to make from Youtube in javascript count?

[true harness]

sure. it also looks like there's a lot of whitespace, which gives the impression that you don't have many interesting things to say about yourself

[vapid jay]

Gee, thanks. :<

sad French music is playing

I'll re-work it tomorrow, then.

I have some projects from intro to graphics but the thing is I genuinely do NOT remember where that code is. X.x;

[cinder fossil]

UK does 40% for any income earned above £50,270 (~$63k rn apparently)
and 45% for income earned above £125,140 (~$157k)

its also closer to like, 60% in the £100k -> £125k range, because of how our tax-free allowance works

and a lotta other european countries too

[burnt zephyr]

so what's the first thing to do for the freelance project? run virus scan on the file right?

also i bid the minimum of 2 fifty... but the message person is saying 2k... red flag? or just a distracted person?

[umbral haven]

Computer science is filled with relatively advanced math. you have to take to up to calc 3, linear algebra and discrete for me. Alot of these classes are really hard

[umbral haven]

scratch

[true hatch]

im still in middle school

[umbral haven]

Okay, well once you get to high school maybe start taking ap math classes if you are really interested in computer science. If you can't pass high school math classes, I think computer science is gonna be hard for you.
I didn't even know how to code when I was in middle school, you'll probably be fine

[true hatch]

i might get a cracked math tutor

to learn this shit in advance

[umbral haven]

in my experience, its better to teach yourself everything. Learn to google how to do problems. And ask AI if you need help

[blazing harbor]

best way to learn math is with spivak calculus

great way to build intuition

[umbral haven]

You dont need a teacher anymore these days, higher level college courses are gonna be alot of self study and teaching yourself

[blazing harbor]

I mean we still have lectures

it's also useful to have world class instructors to teach certain methods tbh

[umbral haven]

Yeah thats true, but especially in computer science if i want to start learning rust or C++ right now, ill just look at youtube videos and teach myself

[true hatch]

My dad is an EE maybe he can teach me

[blazing harbor]

yeah just make sure you get into a top university

[umbral haven]

Just start earlier coding and programming, most kids ur age wouldnt even be thinking about starting. its better to get ahead of everyone else

[true hatch]

coding is hard, python is too hard for me

[blazing harbor]

coding is hard for everyone

[umbral haven]

well thats cuz ur in middle school. youre first language is always gonna be the hardest

[true hatch]

I wanna learn scratch

[umbral haven]

go ahead, i reccomend looking at youtube for tutorials

[true hatch]

after scratch ill do py

[blazing harbor]

I would get a good math foundation

[umbral haven]

good idea

[blazing harbor]

maybe participate in math counts and other math competitions

[deft herald]

I mean you don't need complex math to learn programming

[true hatch]

im average in math

[harsh river]

i disagree on the AI part, we spend 24/7 fixing it's mistakes and re teaching shit it taught wrong.

[umbral haven]

I mean i always ask it syntax and conceptual questions. never big chunks of code. And I never paste code that I dontunderstand in. Also i have claude opus and gpt 4

[harsh river]

i have to use my fingers to add and subtract shit sometimes

[blazing harbor]

I think the struggle is the most important part of learning too

[true hatch]

100% for CS

[harsh river]

can you see how it might be easier for you to grasp if the code it gives you is correct or incorrect vs someone who has no experience?

[deft herald]

At a certain point, I stopped knowing how to do math with Numbers altogether

[blazing harbor]

that's a problem 😭

[umbral haven]

i mean you just run it using the compiler

[harsh river]

CS is more theoretical, SWE is applied, most people don't know the difference.

[harsh river]

i mean you just made an incorrect statement, python doesnt really have an compiler, it's mostly interpreted

[blazing harbor]

I'm sure as a SWE you should know some basic theory

[umbral haven]

Yes you're right. Doesnt change the fact taht U run the code to test if it works or not.

[true hatch]

What is SWE?

[harsh river]

sure, but code can run, and still be incorrect, you'd be none the wiser

[blazing harbor]

I mean you should know how to write code in a google doc, etc and on paper

[harsh river]

software engineering.

[umbral haven]

print the output?

[blazing harbor]

sometimes it's good to be intentional in correcting your mistakes and coding on paper and it could make you a better software engineer

[harsh river]

that doesn't change what i said.

[umbral haven]

kinda does but sure

also, why would AI get the basics wrong that makes no sense

[blazing harbor]

it sometimes does, but that's not why you shouldn't use AI

[umbral haven]

never had that problem.

[blazing harbor]

the process of debugging and finding the issues is critical to becoming a great software engineer; you should not rely on AI tools to do this for you

[harsh river]

this conversation at this point belongs to #python-discussion

[blazing harbor]

absolutely not; you are missing the critical points

[umbral haven]

we are talking about a beginner starting out coding, the projects a beginner will be working on will be extremely hard to not fuck up

[harsh river]

yet we spend 24/7 fixing precisely those kind of problems here, because newbies start to rely on chatgpt 4.5 claude bard w.e.

most of the people that are having issues with LLMs here, are newbies.

[umbral haven]

yeah, a beginner is gonna make mistakes. If they choose to completely rely on AI to solve their problems obviously not. AI gives begginners the opportunity to immedietly realize theire mistake, if they are actually interested in learning

[blazing harbor]

they shouldn't immediately realize their mistake

[umbral haven]

they should. most of hte mistakes a beginner is gonna make are trivial and trying to figure them out is a waste of time. Mostly just syntax errors probably

[true hatch]

is py the most useful SWE lang

[umbral haven]

different languages have different purposes
python is one of the most popular

[amber bloom]

Hey guys, there was a slight catch that I didn’t realize about the Network Specialist internship position I was offered today. I would have to take a 3 credit course during the summer semester that’s offered at a campus around 40 miles away from me. I would have to go once a week every monday from 4-6pm and it would involve a research project and presentation. The class would cost me about $1500. My mom is now thinking I shouldn’t do the internship but I thought it’s more worth it just for the experience and being able to put it on my resume. Do you guys think it’s worth it? Sorry for the wall of text I’m just worried about what I should do now

[blazing harbor]

can you transfer those credits into your current university

also would the internship pay for that course

[true hatch]

how tf do you not have a 20 seconds cooldown

[blazing harbor]

kinda unreasonable to ask you to pay out of pocket

[amber bloom]

yea it would count for credit just not a CSCI class, it’s like a political science class, it’s a United Nations program

[blazing harbor]

wym I have special privileges in this server

[amber bloom]

and I’m not as concerned about the cost because I get paid for my college by scholarships and grants but my mom is concerned ab the money. The pay covers it since I’d make more than the class costs

[umbral haven]

what uni are u going to @amber bloom

[amber bloom]

coastal carolina

[true hatch]

This?

[blazing harbor]

oh wow okay okay def consider it then the course could be useful for ur grad reqs

[amber bloom]

yea

[true hatch]

why their football feild teal 😆 jk love the football team logo

[amber bloom]

guess they wanted to be different lmao

[true hatch]

🔥

[amber bloom]

Yea I really like the logo too

[true hatch]

@amber bloom u on the football team or on any sports team?

[amber bloom]

Nah I ain’t athletic lol I’m getting into golf tho

[true hatch]

nice, I like going onto golf courses, find lost balls, used to have a massive collection

[amber bloom]

found a 20 ft ball grabber at a goodwill the other day

[peak halo]

is this about careers?

[amber bloom]

yea got sidetracked, my dilemma was up a lil bit tho

[true hatch]

sorry

[true harness]

that commute is a bit 😬, but once a week isn't bad. i would look for online options if possible. if you have no other options this summer, I say it's pretty reasonable, esp if the cost is not prohibitive

[burnt zephyr]

how weird is it that the data entry project is a pdf 55mb of a play "julius caesar" and the guy asked me to enter it in a spreadsheet format...

more details: when the cast speak in the play, on the left margin it says "FTLN 0001"....i don't know maybe that's a thing... or did I just open the gates for virus in my phone ??

[brazen island]

How do you guys deal with recruiters? I think I have a bad time saying no if they reach out in earnest? Do you ignore them? Hear them out?

[brazen island]

The issue is that I'm happy with my job (for now) but I don't want to burn any bridges with people that reach out so I feel a bit obliged to hear them out

Thanks, I'll say that to the person that just dm'd me. I really felt obliged to take an interview this week because I won a ... substantial amount of money at a hackathon 😔

I don't know how the etiquette works but are you even supposed to interview if you have a job (and you haven't announced you're leaving)

Yeah that's really fair. I just need to sort out what I want to do as well. My current job is very very good from an effort to pay ratio perspective. I think I could earn significantly more elsewhere but that means working significantly harder as well

[buoyant seal]

I copy paste to them my same answer as for everyone else (opening nearby recruiter chat and copying from there hehe)

Good day {RecruiterName}.

Thank you for your invitation, but at the moment i am having enough workload and not looking for new one.

[Optional Phrases depending on their invite to relevant or not stuff] -> Your offer looks like interesting nevertheless. If i was more free, i would have checked it further ^_^.

Best regards,
MyFirstName, SecondName

They usually copy paste too anyway. So.. very equal answer

[brazen island]

Thanks! I'll make something similar to this 👀. Then the problem is solved indefinitely

Yeah, I agree with this as well.

I'm picky and would only move to a place where I know people because that way I can sound out how the workplace is objectively ahead of time

[short hornet]

tyoe hi

[grim swan]

Hi, I want to start my career as python programmer. I have my resume and all but I don't know how I should look for a job. A lot of job advertisements has some requirements that I don't meet and I'm not sure if I should reach out anyway. Where would you look for your first job?
I also have 1 year of experience as frontend developer so I'm looking for a paid job not internship.

[buoyant seal]

u could drop anonymized resume for better clarity to your question here.

[gritty rivet]

When in doubt, just apply.. But networking is generally a must. https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-software-engineers/

[fringe sphinx]

For sure, my first filter is: "Do they live within driving distance"

[split spade]

Hi, what is generally the minimum knowledge requirement to start looking for a job for a self taught python student?

[keen wind]

"Hey, I'm about to start my journey into AI and ML! If anyone else is starting from scratch and wants to join a group for group study, let's create a study group together. Together, we can learn the basics and support each other along the way. Excited to start this journey with like-minded individuals!"

[white relic]

"only possible explanation" is a bit strong, there are lots of possible reasons why an application might be rejected over a weekend

wonder if you would find it more respectful for them to wait a week and then reject you with no feedback

[whole flare]

I had Amazon do that to me, it took them 4 months to reject with no feedback

[mighty sundial]

hey im doing hw but our tcher literally only tuaght us “hello world” cans oemone give me some hints/clues/anything helps. THanks !
Ill DM u the file cuz this server doesnt allow pdf and stuff- —_—-

[white relic]

this channel is for career discussion, for general Python questions you might want to try #python-discussion , or if you want feedback on your code perhaps open a help thread #❓｜how-to-get-help

[balmy mural]

I've never received anything more than a boilerplate rejection for any place that I don't at least interview with

[white relic]

It's not to the company's advantage to offer real explanations and it can open them up to litigation if not done carefully.

I'm sure it depends also on the location. USA is notoriously litigious.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, but its also notoriously racist and discriminatory. Not to open up the floodgates to politics right now ofc. But a few idiots can't stop ruining it for everyone else, so here we are.

[fringe sphinx]

What is discriminatory? Preferring local candidates? I do it for practical reasons: non local candidates have a lower acceptance and retention rates than candidates who have 'roots' in my city.

(Mind you, by 'roots', I include people who went to Uni locally)

[white relic]

It's fine to not put your location but I doubt you're going to see improved take-up from that tbh.

Then they will drop you once they figure it out.

And be annoyed because you were deceptive about it

[kindred oyster]

mostly bgc is done after , and it will come out in bgc afaik

[white relic]

If you're planning to relocate and you have work authorization, that puts you in the minority of international candidates.

[vapid jay]

Incidentally, a new law was put into place such that somebody cannot be fired for how their hair looks.

However, If somebody REALLY doesn't like black hair, or whatever aspect about them, they will look for another reason to terminate them and cite that reason.

[fringe sphinx]

In US, most states have "at-will" employment. I don't need a reason to fire someone.

(except there are specific things where I can't fire someone for... so if you can prove I fired you for one of those protected things, then I'm in trouble)

[vapid jay]

Right but that's kind of the point I'm making.

Some places you don't even need a reason, just have to say "You're fired" and that's that.

In the cases where you need a reason, the truth is purely optional.

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not really sure the point you're trying to make, I thought we were talking about discriminatory hiring practices?

[vapid jay]

It's why I'm not taking any chances and keeping my hair low for now. (Boring)

[fringe sphinx]

I don't think most SWE employers are looking for reasons to fire people that don't have to do with performance.

(or toxicity)

[vapid jay]

Well rational as that may sound, discrimination based on bigotry is not rational.

[fringe sphinx]

I'm really not following, where did bigotry come into play here?

Or are you asserting that people fire people for bigotry? Or don't hire them in the first place?

I mean, I'm not really qualified to talk about either anyway.

[balmy mural]

No, all the rejection letters I got didn't provide any info. Just generic template "We've decided to not move forward with your application"

Nope, just got that after first interviews. My sample size is quite small though. Was at 50ish applications, 3 interviews, 2 job offers and then I took an offer

[pastel thunder]

I actually have noticed, applying without referral is almost similar to not applying

[balmy mural]

Minimally. I used linkedin to find job openings, visoted companies website and applied through that wherever possible. Included a semi generic cover letter where I took about 20-30 mins to adjust to each application

So I only applied via linkedin if the company had no other way to apply via their own website

[true harness]

but this doesn't give you any useful feedback either

yes, but this isn't tailored to you, it's just a generic rejection

. ok, but you didn't get interviewed, of course other candidates were better. there's no additional information

of course not, you weren't interviewed

[deft herald]

This channel is for #career-advice so no, not here

!res
you can check out our resources though 👇

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[deft herald]

Did you get a job requiring expertise in Python without having said expertise?

Sure. What's your situation now? Education level, etc?

right on. Any plans for college?

That's cool. What about a program like Biomedical Engineering? Might get the best of both worlds there

[harsh river]

Biomed eng tends to be more on the hardware side doe

[deft herald]

true

[austere epoch]

hi

[vast lake]

How's prompt engineering ?

[austere epoch]

Guys can one earn money without a degree with just coding and trading

[harsh river]

We don't really do that here so idk

[vast lake]

way of approach is the main thing

[harsh river]

One can, but it is not easy, and for trading you need the initial funds for it to be worthwhile

[austere epoch]

hmm

[vast lake]

thought you would know as career choosing....

[austere epoch]

my bro did

[austere epoch]

Hey , I don't get the time to code or even learn. Iam in 10th grade

[harsh river]

Then ask your bro?

[deft herald]

Then why'd you ask?

[austere epoch]

I dont believe him

[harsh river]

My answer remains the same, we don't do prompt engineering so we wouldn't know, and I'd imagine doing it as a career wouldn't be sustainable in the long term

[deft herald]

Well to be fair, his duty as a bro is to mess with you

[austere epoch]

It's something like EZsnippet, he is a coder and gives really good advice related to coding, plus give him this too, I myself used to earn 25k when I used to code like crazy and shit so if he has enough skills, he can get the money he wants without degree (I used to be in 10th grade at that time, plus I also used to do some trading and shit so the whole 25k ain't from coding)

[vast lake]

Focus on your studies, Learn it when you are free.

[fringe sphinx]

Can you is very different than should you or is it a good idea or what's the best strategy with highest chance of success?

[austere epoch]

he said this

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, I can become CEO of Microsoft without a college degree.

Is it likely? No.

[vast lake]

Okay, thanks for your consideration towards my doubts.

[austere epoch]

[austere epoch]

So nice would it be

[deft herald]

Most reliable way to make money from coding is to obtain a college degree in engineering, CS, or similar and then get hired after graduation

[austere epoch]

Shall I learn eazy basics in python 1st

[fringe sphinx]

Python is the most common first language, so Yes.

!res if you need resources. Filter on Beginner

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vast lake]

There's no point tbh first complete your overall syllabus when you think you are ready for it, Give it a try.

[austere epoch]

I am trying to learn it from 2020 but all I did was givd up

[austere epoch]

yes I reckon

[fringe sphinx]

Don't grind. Find the fun in it, learn a little every day or every week, and you'll be amazed where you are in a year. If you grind, you'll probably give up.

[vast lake]

is hiring that easy in this field (just a curious question) ?

[deft herald]

No. Neither is the "obtain a college degree" step. They both take lots of work.

That's why i said "most reliable way" instead of "easiest way"

[austere epoch]

Cs is competitive

[vast lake]

Understood.

[austere epoch]

400 out of 2000000

in top 7 colleges for cs

[fringe sphinx]

Nearly every University has a CS program. There's a place for anyone to study, if they want it.

Citation please.

[austere epoch]

but those 7 places grab the highest pacakge

[vast lake]

My apologies

[fringe sphinx]

Are you suggesting that if you don't get into the top 7 Uni's, there's no point in studying CS?

[austere epoch]

Well for me no

[fringe sphinx]

Or that your salary will be capped?

[austere epoch]

not really but it is the easist way

[fringe sphinx]

It's somewhat pointless to worrya bout this stuff. Either you get in, or don't get in, to a top Uni. If you don't, then it's not worth worrying about it.

[harsh river]

College ranking don’t matter for CS, the degree itself matters and what the college might have available for you to get a job easier, like intership or co op partnerships

[austere epoch]

seriously

[harsh river]

The people who tend to go to those places already tend to have experience and possibly other degrees, so your view is askew because those colleges tend to be biased against more qualified people

[fringe sphinx]

Are we talking about top 7 unis or top 7 companies?

[austere epoch]

not really they just pass an exam

[harsh river]

My college isn’t that highly ranked but it has Co Ops / internship offers on par with the best colleges.

[austere epoch]

nice

[fringe sphinx]

people with jobs don't think about this stuff. Youtubers and influencers love to talk about rankings/etc. Nobody else does.

[austere epoch]

It's different here

[fringe sphinx]

Where is here?

[harsh river]

They filter the people who take that exam, they want you to be well rounded, have good grades, academics extracurricular backgrounds and etc, taking the exam is basically one of the last steps

[austere epoch]

India

[austere epoch]

bro bro brk

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, you should try to go to the best school that'll accept you. And go to the best "company" that offers you a job.

[austere epoch]

thats not how it works

[fringe sphinx]

You're very confident.

[harsh river]

That’s how it works, at least in the US and other major countries, in India it might be different.

[austere epoch]

I shall but is cs degree worth it

is there anything like passion.

[fringe sphinx]

I love my work.

[harsh river]

Yes, specially if you want to work for foreign companies, they will rely on the degree to quantify and qualify you.

[austere epoch]

I want a startup for me

[austere epoch]

If I am not good enough

[harsh river]

If you aren’t good enough, become good enough.

[austere epoch]

wise words

[austere epoch]

Well by studying phy chem and maths 18*7

[fringe sphinx]

I really don't worry about things out of my control. I try to learn every day. Do a good job. And remember to talk to people / make friends. It's done me well for many years.

[austere epoch]

I love u

[harsh river]

They’re wise words, and that’s what people generally want, but that’s not often the reality, there’s only so many people that can go to the best of the best, and get the best jobs

[austere epoch]

best for me he meant*

[dark arrow]

are you in HS rn

[austere epoch]

Simple then I shall not fret

[austere epoch]

yes

[dark arrow]

ah

yeah grinding phy chem math is unfortunately the best use of your time then

[austere epoch]

I guess for nxt 3years

But the thing is why should I become a cs student

why not a bussiness man a ca a civil servant archealogist

[harsh river]

Passion. You do what you like best

[austere epoch]

I like many things can I do it all

And I like nothing at the same time.

[harsh river]

Jack of all trades, master of none

[austere epoch]

Master of 2

[fringe sphinx]

Very few high school students know what they want to do. Many college students change majors. It's unrealistic to expect you to know what you love.

[austere epoch]

Social science and maths

[fringe sphinx]

I started off as a EE. Hated it.

[harsh river]

Then you should find a carreeer that uses both and you’ll be happy

[austere epoch]

ee?

[austere epoch]

Bussiness follows everything but theres nothing in my mind abt it

[austere epoch]

then what to do waste my time or read everything

Sht its 00:00 schoo at 04:00

@fringe sphinx

[harsh river]

Focus on school and meanwhile learn more and become more prepared for the potential jobs you want to do

[austere epoch]

ok

[pulsar talon]

i want to make money

F**k passion if it keeps u broke

[fringe sphinx]

It's very hard to make money if you're not good at what you do. It's hard to be good at something you don't enjoy.

[pulsar talon]

whatever makes me money ill suck it up and do it
i like creating stuff and owning

[fringe sphinx]

But you do you.

[formal topaz]

do you guys think that anything is posisble

[peak halo]

This is an obtuse question unless you specify a scope. I don't think anyone can run faster than light, so I don't think "anything" is possible, no.

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't say so.

[restive python]

hello

[formal topaz]

like i can achieve anything if i put my mind to it type shit

[smoky quest]

not really

[wind plinth]

Yes, but you cant instantly do everything. You gotta do multiple things to reach ur goal yk

you cant just put your mind to it and make a Rocket Ship that goes to mars

you gotta put your mind to learning physics, then astrophysics and engineering, then get a job at a space agency

you gotta put your mind to a lot of things to acomplish your goals

[lost cypress]

I had an internship interview a little less than 2 weeks ago. I successfully followed up with my interviewer and also mentioned some of the tools I began to learn after the interview and what I've learned from them. The interviewer applied quite fast as well and seemed enthusiastic in his response.
So after that quick conversation I have not been in constant contact with the recruiter so it's been a week now since.

Is it bad that I am not constantly in contact with the interviewer? Or should I not assume it is hurting my status.

[wind plinth]

That doesn't mean we can't find a way to break those supposed laws

[vapid jay]

how do i get a remote job, i am fine being paid 200$ a month

[white relic]

Many things are possible and you can make them happen if you apply yourself, like learning to sing or play an instrument. Many things are also technically possible, but not totally in your control, like becoming a pop star: you need luck and the right kind of connections

[wind plinth]

Learning to sing is NOT possible 😭

[white relic]

It is a skill, like programming.
Some people have innate talent for it, also like programming. But it can be practiced and learned.

[wind plinth]

what about people who don't have talents?

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[balmy spade]

Haven't met one of those in my life yet. I'll let you know if I ever do.

[flint widget]

I'm here to learn this programming language

[balmy spade]

Awesome. You'd be looking for #python-discussion , maybe the #❓｜how-to-get-help rooms as you need them.

[white relic]

People can still learn things they don't have any special talent for

[vapid jay]

i already have a cs degree, i am doing my masters right now

[smoky quest]

Nice!
Then when you look for a job, you can select based on whether the job is remote or not.

Though, it's common for entry level engineers to be asked to go into the office until they are senior enough to handle it. Coaching remote entry level engineers can be tricky

[vapid jay]

no i meant, a job in a different country but i do the work remotely, becoz cs jobs here dont pay that good

[smoky quest]

jobs pay based on your location, not the company's HQ location

[vapid jay]

i know, and i am fine with being paid whatever as long as i get to hone my programming and teamworking skills in a professional environment

[smoky quest]

so why the condition of the company being located in a different country? That just adds more constraints

[vapid jay]

becoz whatever they pay me will always be better than whatever i get paid here

[smoky quest]

how so? They would pay you based on your location, which is the same than anyone with your skills in your city

[vapid jay]

no they wouldn't where did you get this info from ? i have friends who do remote work and they get paid nicely

[smoky quest]

you should tell that to all the Indian and Chinese people for whom work has been outsourced 😉

[wind plinth]

Yeah but they are hired specifically because they're from India and China 😭

[smoky quest]

and why would you be different?

[vapid jay]

if they got paid the same as companies in their home they wouldn't do remote work, think and use your brain

[smoky quest]

I don't think you understand what is being said here

[vapid jay]

i think that applies to you

exactly

[wind plinth]

The point is that it can better money to do remote work, even if its less than what the HQ pays their non-remote employees

[smoky quest]

that's difficult to assert though. Unless we are talking faang

I have witnessed many counter examples too

that would make him above average, which I doubt considering his messages

[vapid jay]

remote work is the intercetion between companies getting same work for lower price and workers getting more money than what local companies would pay, how is this so hard to understand ?

[wind plinth]

That's not very nice :(

[smoky quest]

why would anyone pay more when they can get anyone else in your city for the local price?

[wind plinth]

wait what qualifications do companies look for???

[vapid jay]

why would anyone in the city do remote work when they pay him the same as his local company ? checkmate

[smoky quest]

making people believe they are special and succeed everything is also not nice

[smoky quest]

alright, let's talk in a few years once you mature a bit more.
This is not about checkmates, it's about job markets with supply and demand.

[vapid jay]

exactly, you dont have an answer

[smoky quest]

they absolutely can though. There is nothing that prevents it beyond the supply and cost to operate there

most people do.
Given the company operate in your country, they will still have to abide by most laws (tax IDs, etc.). Obviously, it depends on their setup (remote.com, contractor, establishing an employer presence, etc.)

Situations are diverse, but yeah. Why going remote to someone on a different TZ, culture and requiring a different payment/HR setup, etc.

[near ocean]

If two jobs pay the same but one is remote, the one being remote is more appealing
Thats why people go for remote jobs

People are overwhelmingly more likely to even consider a pay cut for remote work

[near ocean]

Im not even looking at in person jobs unless its a significant raise, over 25%

[lost cypress]

any1?

[balmy mural]

I wouldn't even consider any job that isn't at least hybrid anymore. And to go from my current remote to hybrid, I'd want quite a big pay jump

[hearty island]

mar, question for you. if an interviewer told you you were their "candidate #1" right after the interview and they've had a week to interview other people (as in they sent the invite for the interview on the 22nd), would you think you have a decent shot?

[tawdry ember]

Y'all, I don't know what I will be able to do with python, i'm in highschool and I want to go into CS, but my skills aren't the best rn...Can I still get into high end schools without great knowledge? (Do I still have time???)

[white relic]

You have plenty of time. And you do not need to get into a top tier school to be successful

How are your grades?

[buoyant seal]

Majority of devs starts to learn programming only in university. U are even ahead of all them then

[true harness]

it is not the majority, but many

[hearty island]

lol i started programming in uni. did not go well for me, but i blame my studying methods. they were not good at the time.

[austere epoch]

meow

[warm agate]

Hey I have no clue where to ask, but I would need a developer to help me with a project (controlling phones via VNC) and I thought in here could be a good starting point. What would be the best place in here to find someone that could help me?

[smoky quest]

Hi,
We don't allow recruitment on this server

[peak halo]

Hello, if you're looking for help in doing it on your own, take a look at the instructions in #❓｜how-to-get-help . If you're looking to hire someone: nowhere.

[gritty rivet]

Upwork or Fiverr

[hearty island]

i think the interview went well

[true hatch]

which degree is the most useful?

[smoky quest]

the one closest to your ideal job

[true hatch]

Then i guess CS, EE or Finance (my big 3)

[true hatch]

Is going to the millitary useful? (I love guns)

[sudden orchid]

Well u could get sponsored funding for ur uni from the Government that's about its only use

[pine sleet]

at least in the U.S, GI bill can pay for further education and some other costs

i know some folks who got set up real good after their service

[true hatch]

The army my dream, Ill be strong, athletic. Il get guns

[pine sleet]

chase your dreams

[true hatch]

bet my guy, idk why i like guns, they really cool, at school i pretend my water bottle is a shotgun and i shoot muy stupid korean classmate

[pine sleet]

uh, okay then

you do you boo

[tidal fulcrum]

dude u guys r safe in my country we.gotta study useless subjects

[pine sleet]

perhaps you don't see the value yet

[true hatch]

what is best?:
Navy.
Army.
Air Force.

[pine sleet]

what do you mean by "best"

they're all different in their own ways

[true hatch]

i wanna go to the best canadian millitary branch

[pine sleet]

don't know what you mean by "best"

[true hatch]

which is more badass

[vagrant kelp]

Air force definately is badass

[pine sleet]

you should not be choosing your branch of service by what's "more badass"

you should do some independant research before signing up

[true hatch]

the military is badass in general

[true hatch]

My fav are Air force (Top Gun), Army, im not a navy fan

[vagrant kelp]

If you want simplicity and more death rate then choose army else air force is your best option

[vagrant kelp]

If you like both navy and airforce then you can go for Naval Air Force as they land in aircraft carriers in sea.

[true hatch]

i cant fly a plane bro, Have you watched TOPGUN?

[smoky quest]

AI is going to take over these jobs

[vagrant kelp]

Get on a old Cessna for a year and you already have 500+ hours on a plane and need more experience to get into better planes

[true hatch]

army or air force are my dream

[true hatch]

Ima buy Microsoft flight sim

[vagrant kelp]

Autopilot is a think yk nowadays Airbus aircrafts as well as Boeing aircrafts use APP which is automatically landing which is very accurate even at bad weathers but the pilots must monitor carefully.

[pine sleet]

you seem quite young, i think for the moment it would be most beneficial to you to simply focus on your grades, and make programming projects to build up your skills. when the time comes you can think about enlisting

[vagrant kelp]

That works as well when you have a yoke,rudder pedals and a huge monitor and CPU which is preety cheap as compared to a real plane

[true hatch]

i like army because i love guns

[vagrant kelp]

But it won't affect your experience as they ask for experience which are preety high

[pine sleet]

yes you've told us this multiple times

this is getting off topic now, though

[true hatch]

its career discusson

[pine sleet]

yes, not "i love guns and army" channel, let's get back on topic

[vagrant kelp]

But it's very hard
Ofc airforce is also very hard as you face upto 9 Gs which is deadly for a average person like you and me but they use special G suits which can get them feeling it less.

[pine sleet]

if you'd like to have a nuanced discussion about the benefits and drawbacks joining the armed forces could have on your engineering career, that we can discuss

[true hatch]

when i finish military, ill go to a good college fo free in CS

[vagrant kelp]

He needs to have basic degrees to get into airforce tho

[pine sleet]

depends on your role, but no, you don't need one

for many roles in the millitary a GED or high school diploma or equivalent will suffice

and yes, in the U.S your education is paid for in the most part (perhaps even in full, not sure though) - i imagine it will be similar in canada as well

[true hatch]

In Canada is 100 pa cent

[pine sleet]

that is good

[vagrant kelp]

Passed 10+2 and Graduate Degree (Minimum three years degree course) is their condition for education

[true hatch]

@vagrant kelp did you go to the air force?

[vagrant kelp]

That's very nice whereas here we pay for being a Commerical piloy

[vagrant kelp]

No I have studied about it in details

[pine sleet]

one potential drawback is by the time you rejoin civilian life and start your education, most of your peers will already be in the industry with many years of experience. though it may also be pretty easy to catch up

[true hatch]

I can brag to people that ive served 🔥 How long do i need to serve?????

[pine sleet]

there are some folks in this channel who did serve in the air force, if you have specific questions you can leave them here and they may respond

[pine sleet]

not sure. you'll have to do some research into it, but it will most likely be several years or more

[true hatch]

What grades are considered good?

[real bison]

F is good

[pine sleet]

depends on what you're going for

[true hatch]

wanna go to High class CS college

[smoky quest]

the best ones have the most competition to get in

[pine sleet]

depends on what you mean by "cool" but most flagship state universities (or whatever the equivalent in canada) are pretty cool too and will take a wide variety of students, you just have to prove to them that you're worth taking in

[true hatch]

i meant like very popular ones like Stanford, MIT, etc

[pine sleet]

you will need all As in advanced and college level courses, and extracurriculars (and not just being part of a club, anyone can do that)

[true hatch]

So goated at math?

[pine sleet]

that is one way to put it

[true hatch]

My dad will hopefully teach me advanced math (He is an EE)

[pine sleet]

you should consider taking dual enrollment classes from a college, but i'm pretty sure collegeboard offers AP courses in canada, so there's that too

this is what i did my senior year of high school

[true hatch]

but college, ill study in the US, England

[pine sleet]

yes, i'm just saying you should still take college level classes in high school if you want a shot at the colleges you mentioned. they don't want to take people that get all A's in regular classes

[true hatch]

maybe ill go to the university of toronto (8h away form home)

[pine sleet]

very sensible option

[smoky quest]

looks like that Stanford had ~50k applications in 2023 for 1,600 available spots

that should tell you how good you need to be

[dark arrow]

huh 50k doesnt seem that many

do you need any qualifications to apply

[smoky quest]

I would assume some

[pine sleet]

there are many facets to picking a university, but yeah distance from family and home is one of them. i go to university 6h away. cost is another factor, so are majors offered

[true hatch]

I would like to go to the university of Toronto, has good acceptance rate, one of the best CS schools in the WORLD

[pine sleet]

👍 keep working towards it

[true hatch]

should i study abroad? (Asia or Europe)

[smoky quest]

If you can afford it in terms of grade and $, sure

[true hatch]

Im scared of Cs

[smoky quest]

just get As then

[true hatch]

My fav uncle tried to study Computer Science, it didn't work out for him, he now works at H&M, thats why im scared

[smoky quest]

these are different times! And you are different people

[pine sleet]

so just get As

[true hatch]

it aint that easy

[pine sleet]

neither is a 4 year college education. it will prepare you

[true hatch]

college fun right?

[pine sleet]

no

[true hatch]

can i grad in 2 years?

[pine sleet]

if you go for an associates, sure

but bachelor's degrees are usually 4 years

that is, if you graduate on time

[true hatch]

associates good?

[pine sleet]

depends on the type of job. but if you're going into CS, not really

[smoky quest]

not as good as a bsc

[pine sleet]

pretty sure the majority of students don't graduate in 4 years

i remember seeing a 40% figure somewhere

[true hatch]

Why do people not graduate on time?

[pine sleet]

lots of reasons. failed a class, switched majors, illness, financial issues, etc etc

sometimes it's out of your control. it is how it is, sadly

[true hatch]

failing class? Ouch. Ima drop out of every class except cs

[pine sleet]

many students fail classes sadly

often times it's because they're not prepared for the rigor. that's why i suggested to just get As in school

[true hatch]

every subject?

[pine sleet]

always try your best. it will prepare you

[true hatch]

sir yes sir

[pine sleet]

from my experience first semester intro to cs is a big weed out class

also calc 1

[static mesa]

hey guys, is this the right channel to be looking for employees for a startup?

[smoky quest]

Hi, we don't allow recruitment on this server

[lapis wind]

this is scammer!

[trim seal]

In a mock interview test, breaking down the task into smaller bits involved finding the prime factors of the number.

I hopped on to Google and copied a Python function for prime factors from StackOverflow.

Question: Is it okay to do this in interviews (or mock interviews) or do I have to write out the entire helper functions myself?

[near ocean]

I wouldnt really think much of anything an interviewer says about my chances, especially if theyre still interviewing people

They should be professional enough not to tell you how good/bad you did compared to other candidates imho

[limber girder]

Where's my 6 figures

[near ocean]

This book is not for those people. It's for everyone else.
Who can I send an invoice to?

[hearty island]

Gotcha

[gritty rivet]

Might be fine or might not be allowed. It depends entirely on the company / role / interviewer.

[harsh river]

what if he had gone to H&M as an cybersecurity dev or similar?

[vapid jay]

tbh I used to appreciate the 'Yosuga' approach teachers had, but now I just think its pointless.

[white relic]

Very few things people do are pointless.
Many things have a point that doesn't align with how I wish people would behave, but those are emergent properties of society, or the consequence of inserting flawed people into a system that has adverse incentives or just isn't tuned to my particular interests.

[vapid jay]

Its a philosophy of how the world should work, only the strong survive and the weak are culled.

I think it translates to : "The World only needs beautiful things."

What's worse are the types of students who defend them...

Yeah, they treat their passing as something of an "a ha, I have knowledge and you don't!!" sort of thing. One person even implied that I wasn't genetically fit to learn when I was failing linear algebra the first time I took it.

Funny thing is : The linear algebra THEY took and the Linear Algebra I took? Two VERY different difficulty levels. (I took the impossible one)

The second time I took LA , it was at the tech school across the street and my professor actually taught and wasn't insane. It was nice.

An actual incel gets into a position of power. . . . 💀

[true harness]

i think you can make a distinction between "difficult" professors and outright terrible human beings

[vapid jay]

I think our problem with these profs is that they are not only difficult professors but terrible human beings as well.

[true harness]

in my experience, students complaining about profs are usually the ones that haven't been studying, haven't been going to office hours, and generally not putting in the work. while there are situations that are outside of the student's control, this is rare in comparison

[vapid jay]

Marazzi didn't have office hours, I took him during the Covid lockdown. He responded to maybe ONE email I sent per day when I needed help and what he told me was usually not helpful in the slightest and when I told him I didn't understand what he wrote and asked for further explanation, he'd ignore me.

[white relic]

Some professors are assholes and also good educators. Some are just assholes. Some are neither. I don't think assholery is a symptom of the survival of the fittest approach to education, I think it's just a symptom of some humans are assholes

[vapid jay]

This guy was giving me 5 chapters per week and 50 questions per chapter, as well as 3 quizzes per week to boot. . . . .I was studying 8 hour days, you aren't the first to suggest this by the way. Usually when I explain this to people they will move the goal post to "You weren't ready" and if they encounter me again they always shifted back to "You didn't try".

The fact that In my next LA class, I was not only showing up for office hours but also going to tutors and doing everything right proves my point that the guy I had to take during Covid was a monster. I get that some students who complain don't study, but like... Everyone who says that to me genuinely has the wrong guy.

[white relic]

that's pretty much what I'm saying yeah. some places are toxic

it's not a basis for evaluating philosophy of education

honestly, I wouldn't even call survival of the fittest a "philosophy of education" so much as just a fact about limited resources and how some students require more dedicated tutoring than others.

[vapid jay]

Bit of a tangent : Eckhardt Tolle, more people need to read his books.

[white relic]

not sure how any of those things is going to create more time for professors to educate students but ok

[vapid jay]

tbh, I think time is mis allocated.

Like the first time I took Calc 1, we received a worksheet on what a function was, we didn't learn about what inversions were until mid semester of calc I, and throughout college I went through thinking inverting and reciprocals were thre same thing.

[white relic]

that is certainly a take

[vapid jay]

What I learned when I cracked open a book and self-studied was a function is a tool that takes an x input and produces a y output, which seems simple but is SO important to internalize and I didn't have that internalized.

[true harness]

calculus relies heavily on previous knowledge. inverting a function is something that would be learned in precalc

[vapid jay]

Didn't happen, threw increasingly escalating equations at me without explaining the principles to this escalation.

After that I learned what inversions REALLY were and I almost cried... It's like....Learning about inverting and learning the HOW of changing functions even got me to learn how "tests" worked.

[true harness]

move to #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare , probably

[near ocean]

The biggest issue uni students face is they dont realise nobody is going to be chasing them to close gaps in their knowledge like they did in high school
This is what this topic sounds like

[vapid jay]

I guess I paid the price for being Lazy in high school. Sure, I had my reasons for trying to escape reality and not doing well in school but Lazy I was.

Though, I wonder if I should do graduate school....

[gritty rivet]

There are reasons almost all employers prefer candidates with degrees for knowledge-based roles and no sign of that changing anytime soon

[vapid jay]

I at least want to brush up on my mathematics completely before I even try that tbh. That and I need to get some life experience to write on my entrance essay.

[vapid jay]

Large Language Models are good swiss army knives. They aren't a replacement for the person using the tool.

[near ocean]

"survival of the fittest" is a reductionist take
This is just an observation of reality

[gritty rivet]

And had that learning certified by an accredited institution

[vapid jay]

the instructor for my upcoming college software development program has a 2.3/5 rating on ratemyprofessor:
"Often unclear in expectations - especially on assignments. Tests are fair but still a bit unclear. Material isn't covered as well as it could be. Following a lecture on Notepad++ is difficult when it's not always structured the best."

Should I drop out and just focus on coursera certs and building my portfolio?

[true harness]

no, that would be a bad idea. i would take most ratemyprof comments as meaningless. they are usually a reflection of how the student performed, not the professor

[vapid jay]

I did a web dev program at this college and it was really not good, very outdated and insufficient to get a job in the industry

the instructors did not even grade my work until the semester was over

was all over the place and barely covered the basics and the instructors obviously had no idea about the subject matter they were teaching

[vapid jay]

given the quality of the last program i did there, idk, I dont think its worth $5k per semester lol

[true harness]

are you in a CS program? what's the situation here?

[vapid jay]

im doing a coursera cert now and for $80/mo its far better quality of education

[vapid jay]

did a "enterprise web dev" program which was spread thin across basic programming, design, data, business

accepted into 'accelerated software dev' but looking at the courses and reviews I feel like its going to be the same kind of experience

[white relic]

those don't sound like accredited degree programs

[vapid jay]

idk wtf it is lol - a scam

im just gonna get more certs and build a portfolio rather than buying more ebooks and taking multiple choice exams

[white relic]

at 5k per semester, you should be working toward a degree

[vapid jay]

its a post-diploma

[true harness]

5k a semester is quite an expensive program. that's like what i pay for 18 credits 🥴

[white relic]

eh. it's very cheap as a sticker price

[vapid jay]

idk i graduated the last program with an almost perfect gpa and no one will hire me 🤣

[true harness]

compared to other universities yeah for sure, but for a single course? 🥴

[vapid jay]

i feel its too abstract and not enough hands-on .. like they did not even teach anything about github or building a portfolio

[white relic]

yeah if it's a single for-credit course per semester at that rate then that's absurd
I'm still not sure exactly what kind of program we're talking about tbh

[vapid jay]

I know the basics of like 10 different career paths lol

nah its 4 semesters, 5 courses per semester

python, js, java, databases, appsec .. but looking at the course descriptions, its again only going to barely cover the basics

coursera certs it is!

[weak kindle]

Umm

[white relic]

does that mean you already have a bachelor's degree (or equivalent)?
"diploma" can mean different things in different places/contexts

[vapid jay]

i want to specialize in data sci or cybersec.. idc about design, CMSs, etc lol

[vapid jay]

its not a degree, I have a diploma in 'enterprise web dev'

[weak kindle]

Are you good in maths?

[vapid jay]

yeah, I love stats and working with data

[weak kindle]

Nice

[white relic]

data science is a pretty academic field

[vapid jay]

im about to complete the IBM Data Analyst cert on coursera, thinking of pivoting into cybersec next tho

[white relic]

data engineering maybe easier to break into without a degree

[fringe sphinx]

Some of them can be 0, right?

[limber girder]

I suck at math , atleast jee math , only pnc and probability I could do

[fringe sphinx]

What education level are you at right now?

[limber girder]

Just passed class 12 🤡

[fringe sphinx]

Uni next year?

[limber girder]

Yep

[fringe sphinx]

Sucking at math class is different than sucking at math.

[limber girder]

Btw can you guys choose any major in college that you want

[fringe sphinx]

And, I know many SWEs who are terrible at math.

[fringe sphinx]

In US, yah, for the most part.

[limber girder]

☠️

[fringe sphinx]

Where are you?

[dark arrow]

jee math is also very far removed from actual math

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I didn't know that was actually a word.

[limber girder]

India

[mystic gorge]

Hey

[mystic gorge]

🙌🏽😩

[dark arrow]

the closest ive ever got to actual math in my curriculum was a real analysis course and a linalg+abstract alg course in first year

[mystic gorge]

I definitely hate it 😕

[amber cove]

Hello friends, can you help me finding the roadmap and resources to learn python?

I want practice question and project too while learning

[wraith echo]

I too need i just fresher need to learn about python for web development

[vapid jay]

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/intro/tutorial01/

[wraith echo]

Well thanks I will check

[finite umbra]

hello I have a qst can someone help me ?

[peak halo]

see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[wraith echo]

Yeah what bro

[finite umbra]

arduino, how can we read an value that we take from an analog pin by using the port Manipulation ? Thank you

[true hatch]

NO, He dropped out, he folds clothes. I love that uncle, it just sucks what happened with his career.

[real trench]

Ok, So a discussion about career huh? With Python?
So, Why not Game Development?
List reasons for why to use Python for game development. What are the pros and cons also if not Python what is the best programming language for game Developing?

[mint oracle]

Hii selercus r u still here have a question for u

[peak halo]

please always ask actual questions. don't ping people to make them watch you type your question

[mint oracle]

How can i start learning datascience ,ml for getting job as a fresher,Going for master this yr

[peak halo]

did you take data science and ML courses during your university program?

[mint oracle]

Nope java,python,c c++,stats,discerete math,database etc

[real trench]

How do you came to know what to do in life as a career?

[peak halo]

but you're going back to get a masters? will that masters program be specifically about data science/machine learning/etc?
If so, start brushing up on your statistics.

[mint oracle]

Okay!

and what advice for fresher to get first job and first internship?

[peak halo]

I have no idea what the job market is like in South Asia. If you were in North America or Europe, I would tell you to talk to the career services center for your university.

[mint oracle]

I need a rough idea about hiring what skill they want in fresher and in intern

[peak halo]

Take a look at entry level job listings for local companies and see what skills they list.

[mint oracle]

Honestly they list every possible thing they know

[peak halo]

focus on skills that lots of listings have in common. and remember that each job listing will give the skillset for "the perfect candidate".

[mint oracle]

okay what ur job by the way

[peak halo]

I'm a computational linguist for a non-profit lab.

[mint oracle]

what's ur work

[peak halo]

I can't really get into specifics.

[mint oracle]

and last advice related for me for my carrer

[peak halo]

if your masters program has an optional thesis, do the thesis.

[true hatch]

Do i need to learn multiple programming languages for SWE?

[fringe sphinx]

If you're studying in University, you'll learn several languages. Do you need to know multiple? No. But it's rare to meet a SWE who only knows one.

(SWEs don't sit around and brag about how many languages they know, except on Discord and Reddit)

[true hatch]

In my lifetime I want to learn py, c++ and javascript

[brazen island]

If you learn one or two really well you can be productive in a 3rd, 4th, 5th, ... in absolutely no time 🙂 You'll be slower writing it but you'll be able to read and write code (in any conventional programming language) from day 1 or 2. That's why I generally don't believe worrying about learning languages is that important 😄

[pastel cairn]

I wonder if this certificate has any value

[hearty island]

i don't think so chief

[peak halo]

No. "The Python Institute" isn't some official thing.

[pastel cairn]

Thx 🙂 probably should build some projects then

[peak halo]

if you're trying to get a job, and you don't have any experience or connections, you pretty much have to get a degree.

[deft herald]

The value of it is the practical skills you learned to achieve it

[true hatch]

I need help in choosing 1 of 3 military branches. Navy, Air Force or Army

[limber girder]

Is it possible to build connections

[near ocean]

Like, in general?

[true hatch]

@fringe sphinx (sorry for ping) what does 🟩 mean?

[near ocean]

It means the question is unrelated to software engineer careers

[true hatch]

ohhh alright

[true harness]

is this true even for people that don't want a PhD? what value does the thesis bring over, say, more courses?

[peak halo]

My friend is upset because his employer walked back a promise to change his title from "developer analyst" to "devops engineer", even though he (my friend) feels the latter better captures his responsibilities. Would it be a problem for him to list "devops engineer" as his title on his resume anyway, as long as his listed job responsibilities are correct?

[pine sleet]

Didn't we already give you advice on this yesterday

[peak halo]

Writing a thesis, which involves doing research with a faculty mentor and publishing it, is something you can basically only do while you're part of a university. And it gives you experience developing an approach to an ML problem and analyzing the results on a deeper level than just "it gets x score for metric y", which is something ML engineers need to be able to do. And having publications gives you credibility.

Whereas you can learn the material that's presented in courses online for free, but you'll still have the masters.

@brazen sky this server isn't a place to dump memes.

[brazen sky]

Mb i were tried to share smh funny here

[near ocean]

I don't think he should
Wouldnt HR give this developer analyst title if called for a reference? Prospective employers might misunderstand

Ideally you would want to negotiate this in a performance review, or whenever really and get it done officially

[true harness]

what about for non-ML things? same advice?

[peak halo]

no idea. idk what one would even write a thesis about for non-ML.

[true harness]

the previous advice i got was only do thesis option if you're looking to do a phd

[peak halo]

for SWE-oriented CS or what?

[true harness]

for a generic MS CS, but probably focused on distributed computing

[brazen island]

(disclaimer: I'm in the EU and things are different here)

Doing a thesis is imo a nice experience over all because you need to dig deep and produce something novel. On top of that, you need to (learn how to) write, structure yourself over a year long (or potentially multi year) project. I'd say it's an invaluable experience for any field. CS or anywhere else.

It's also a nice milestone you can look back to. You can print it, put it in your bookshelf, etc. 😂

[fringe sphinx]

Back in my day, my advisor said: if you're full time masters, you're expected to do a thesis... but part timers (like me), they didn't care. I still went on to pursue the phd (despite leaving it a.b.d.)

[smoky quest]

I got similar advice too.
Though I am mostly neutral on it.

I would look at it with the angle about: what if you do? What if you don't?
If you were not doing the thesis, then how would you fill that time?

[true harness]

neutral from an employer perspective? the opportunity cost of the thesis would be a few more classes. iirc, it's about 9 credits at the schools i was looking at

[brazen island]

What do you want to do?

[near ocean]

I dont think you had a choice at my uni, the only difference between degrees was how you did coursework

[brazen island]

Are the margins that large? Can't you just pick what you find more interesting?

[smoky quest]

neutral from a student perspective.
From an employer's perspective, I don't care or check.

[smoky quest]

My personal choice would be to pick extra classes, but that's because I am more curious and do not want to pigeon hole myself too deep in a single topic. But that's a personal choice

[fringe sphinx]

My preferred answer is something like: Official Title (Clarification). Like: Developer Analyst (DevOps)

That avoids any ambiguity... but I know there's some cases where people don't even want to include the official title.

[brazen island]

One of my friends works at a company that is deep into branding and requires all of their staff to have a same-ish LinkedIn picture and only use their official titles which are strange things like "analytics analyst"

[white relic]

eesh

[brazen island]

Sometimes companies are really pedantic about you using their official titles etc. but in the vast majority of cases I don't think that's a thing

I wouldn't care unless it's ridiculous lol

Yup, I also saw some that had "data wizard" as an official title 😩

Honestly, one of the companies I interviewed with did it well. They just called everyone "software engineer" and told me "modify it as you see fit". (the role was ML)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I knew a guy, at a big tech, who had something like "Chief Kung Fu Officer"

[vapid jay]

any idea what trade you want to do?

[whole flare]

Reminds of a title 'Chief Optimism Officer' I saw

[vapid jay]

Army has Cyber Operators, IT, Signals tech

[true hatch]

ohhh coool

[vapid jay]

also if you have trouble making decisions the army can help you out with that 😂

[fringe sphinx]

That said, Air Force has air conditioning. https://imgur.com/PuUBaVU sorry @vital wyvern

[pine sleet]

chair force gameplay

[dusty fulcrum]

me (after interview): did I miss anything?
interviewer: no, it was good, I've never seen anyone solve it like that, that's why I was asking so many questions.

[dusty fulcrum]

I'm not sure if that's a good sign or not.

[smoky quest]

could go either way 🤔

[jade rampart]

Guys I dont understand why I need to study advanced algebra and advanced calculus for CS. Like how does it help exactly?

[kindred oyster]

it will be useful to you if you go in fields like ML / AI , data related fields

[pine sleet]

you may not necessarily use them directly in your job, but it will teach you to think about problems from multiple angles

and imo thats whats most important

[jade rampart]

So if I dont end up working there it was useless?

[pine sleet]

no

[kindred oyster]

just because you wont immediately use a thing doesnt mean its useless

[pine sleet]

it would not be uncommon if you never used it

[jade rampart]

🫤

[dusty fulcrum]

reminds me of this:

no insult intended, just a funny strip about math. 🙂

[jade rampart]

ik no insult inteded, dw

I'm just touched by the college is a scam bs so I'm questioning everything, but at the same time studying everything I can to pass my exams hehehe
So I always ask myself, how the hell can I use this...

[smoky quest]

the corollary of that is interesting though. CS degrees will prepare you to build any kind of software. It's up to you whether or not you will work in simple jobs that have lower requirements and opportunities or to work in more interesting and challenging roles

[dusty fulcrum]

but to your point, even if you forget 90% of the stuff in advanced math, simply knowing it exists will help you solve some problems later in life by knowing for instance maybe you needed a limit or something, or need to know about a taylor series and know where to go google the correct information.

[jade rampart]

I prefer a challenge

[dusty fulcrum]

You can do a lot in CS with statistics, combinatorics, linear algebra and set theory. calculus is more useful in specific applications where it's needed.

[jade rampart]

I see. Could make sense 😄

[smoky quest]

then there are tons of areas where math will be useful. It's just a tool

[dusty fulcrum]

The flip side of it is also that a lot of math programs use calculus as the weeder course that you have to pass before you can see the fun math. So you might not end up using much calculus, but without it you're gatekept from other math.

[jade rampart]

I see 👍 💯

Another question: Should I pursue high qualifications?

[kindred oyster]

it would require a lot of study and theory , you up for that ?

[smoky quest]

what is it?

[jade rampart]

Like whats better:
Almost no personal projects but super high qualificaitons
Decent amount of personal projects and decent qualifications (average)
Lots and well developed projects but below average qualifications but you pass ur classes

[jade rampart]

I already have to study a lot... I was actually studying 2 mins ago before I came in here to chat 😛

[vapid jay]

option 3

[kindred oyster]

tbh this is too subjective and will depend on case by case basis
the average is the most safe and recommanded choice for any person
like getting a CS degree

[vapid jay]

gl getting hired without a portfolio

[kindred oyster]

GL getting your resume even shortlisted without a degree on it

[vapid jay]

that too

[jade rampart]

Meaning only a degree has little value?

[dusty fulcrum]

what is high qualifications?
I find when hiring, practical experience trumps education, but no education leave candidates with a large gap in fundamentals which can leave them inflexible if the new job is not a clone of the thing they've been working.

[kindred oyster]

the opposite
the degree still holds lots of value

[jade rampart]

8 or more, having the 1 to 10 mark

[smoky quest]

being top of the class is something worth bragging about

[jade rampart]

rly?

[dusty fulcrum]

I'm not sure how that translates to the education systems I'm used to. 🙂 certainly being the best you you can be is a good thing.

[smoky anvil]

i need someone to help me with a flask app

[smoky quest]

Less relevant once you are 10 years older though

[dusty fulcrum]

probably wrong room

[smoky anvil]

who is free, and can help me with a flask app error

[wheat hatch]

To give you a real example of a task I was given at work a few years ago:
Find out what happens when we lose parts of Xu,v in transmission

Here's the definition of Xu,v

The solution involved a bit of math that I by that point was very glad that I had

[kindred oyster]

this is the wrong channel , ask in #web-development or #python-discussion and read#❓｜how-to-get-help

[jade rampart]

So 10 is an A+

As an example, if you have 10 excercises in an exam, each excercise with a cost of 1 point. If you do the 10 excercises correctly, you get a 10 out of 10 (A+)

[jade rampart]

Sorry I dont read mandarin yet

[kindred oyster]

yeah , dont forget that you dont have to memorize the formulas and all
just knowing that they exist and what they do is what you should be after

[dusty fulcrum]

no one cares about your grades except you, UNLESS you are going for higher education. after a few years in the field no one will really care that you have a degree, other than that you learned the material basics.

[whole flare]

Math typically uses Greek and Latin

[jade rampart]

then why dont just learn the material basics by urself instead of going to school ?

[kindred oyster]

a kid doesnt know how to learn in a proper way

also the point of school is not only to upload math or text to your brain , its a place to learn social skills amongst other things

[dusty fulcrum]

if you can do that, that's great. but you'll miss out on a lot of parties. access to amazing resources. The perspective of some of the professors I worked with was invaluable. You go to a university for access to the resources it has, not necessarily for the piece of paper you leave with.

[jade rampart]

hahah in argentina everything is scarce but parties 😛

[wheat hatch]

The reality of the situation is that your ability to pay rent and put food on your family's table depends on you knowing how to solve these problems

[smoky quest]

Degrees absolutely matter for your career, even a few years later.
You also have to consider your career as a chain of events where the benefit compound. People with degrees get better and more opportunities, which yield dividends, which means better and more opportunities down the road

[wheat hatch]

That's why school prepares you for them

[smoky quest]

And most people won't learn the math (or other topics) on their own to deal with the equations shown earlier. But they would be forced to do so in school. These are also complex topics they would now know they exist, if not for a teacher to guide them

[jade rampart]

Yes this is absolutely true I probably wouldnt learn math by myself, or at least wouldnt with the same difficulty uni has

[dusty fulcrum]

hehe

[pine sleet]

Yes

[lofty zephyr]

How do you handle poor practices at work?

I get frustrated when I’m faced with poor documentation and no standards

[pine sleet]

fix it, basically

[kindred oyster]

*well , sqrt(4) ^ 2 + sqrt(12) ^ 2 * /s

[dusty fulcrum]

improve them, or leave for a company that lets me improve them.

[wheat hatch]

If it can be fixed, fix it. If it cannot, change jobs.

[lofty zephyr]

Thx. Any advice to fixing it from scratch? It’s hard for me since I currently don’t have git or testing env

[dusty fulcrum]

young me seeing an issue: well that's a bad idea, it'll bite someone in the ass one day.
a short while later
problem bites me in the ass, not the people that caused it.

[dusty fulcrum]

In general, if you can't fix it, make sure you document it so you have a plan of action.

[wheat hatch]

Depends on the culture at your job. Sometimes I try to run things by my boss, sometimes I just start working on them. It sorta depends a bit on the potential consequences of you changing something.

I also try to check if there's any "camps" around the issue as well, to not piss a bunch of people off by encroaching on something.

[lofty zephyr]

Yeah good points. I guess working on a side copy is how I’ve been doing it.

[dusty fulcrum]

my most recent contract the problem was the boss. In particular his ability to bypass the code review checks and directly check in untested, let alone reviewed code.

[wheat hatch]

Yikes, yeah that'd be one of the situations where I just start working on it and not run it by the boss haha

I can not imagine a more scary thing than a boss with push privileges

[smoky quest]

Take a positive stance and with the angle of making things better.
Sure things may be terrible right now, but let's all work together to make things better.

That may imply identifying the top 3 things to improve and making suggestions. There are also guilds/community-of-practices you could lean on as well

[lofty zephyr]

My situation is that I’m not in a swe position but more an analyst type. The guy before me has written dozens of scripts used by my team all the time. No dev docs, no source control, no backups. Just editing a py file on the network drive

[smoky quest]

do others agree it's not great?
Do you have team retrospectives where you can bring this up?

[lofty zephyr]

Yes okay, I like the positive approach.

[dusty fulcrum]

I'll make it more scary: He was a seasoned java developer learning python for the first time and had some interesting ideas about code, and 2 key features we were using pyspark and polars he had zero understanding of. He also wrote a lot of sql for us, like 1000+ lines in a sql file to get some weird joins happening that I replaced with a 30line sql file that did the same. If you've seen me talking about this guy before this is the guy that required every python function to trap every possible error in it and return a common return object that contained a status code and the payload if any.

[lofty zephyr]

Yes, other teammates have identified issues with the current tools. I meet with my boss, but I need a better way to frame how to import best practices since my boss is non technical

[dusty fulcrum]

def get_square(n):
   try:
        return ResultObject(status=Status.OK, payload=n*n)
   except Exception as e:
        return ResultObject(status=Status.ERROR)

x = get_square(4)
if x.status == Status.OK:
    result = x.payload

every function in the code base.

[smoky quest]

You may want to qualify their impact. In the end of the day, risk is quantified as likelihood x impact.
So for instance, not having version control is pretty risky and thus would be ranked higher than how you name variables

[lofty zephyr]

Agree , asking what would happens if the code was no longer and dealing with the consequences of risk

[wheat hatch]

Yikes, it sounds like one of them that's on the top of the dunning-kruger peak, and that's when you are the most dangerous.

[smoky quest]

These are terms your manager will understand 🙂

Note that you could also bucket them in different categories:

• Must do items we have to fix ASAP and schedule (ex: git)
• Tech debt the team should regularly schedule

[dusty fulcrum]

I recall he force pushed some code that had an index error and we didn't figure out what was happening for a while because the function was catching every error, and just treating it like bad data instead of what it actually was, which was bad code.

[wheat hatch]

I agree with what recursive have said. Qualify the impact because you can use this to motivate your work for management in case there are questions.
I would also get to work getting source control in place asap.

[smoky quest]

if it helps, here is what we use in my teams: https://www.intercom.com/blog/rice-simple-prioritization-for-product-managers/

Note, I use them as guidelines to help get a sense of the ranks, but I wouldn't just prioritize by formula

[wheat hatch]

I would also check with your team if they want you to hold some presentation on a way of working. Take basic source control for example, do they know how that works and what the benefits of using it is?

[indigo cloud]

Hi guys do you know any USA college that has a student exchange program?

Im little kid in russia dreaming about moving and learning in USA so i need to know it for my future

[indigo cloud]

I mean IT colleges

[brazen island]

Errors-as-values, I like this in some places (not as checked exceptions) but it's definitely unpythonic

[white relic]

I have told this before but I once worked on a project that had been designed by a former c# programmer at a major software company you have heard of.
There were no standalone functions, only classes. Instead of writing a function he would write a class, pass the arguments to __init__, then create an object and assign it nowhere, relying on the side effects of the construction.

[fringe sphinx]

Truly next level object oriented programming.

[white relic]

You're not wrong.

[buoyant seal]

when i first switched from Python to Golang, i was trying to go "pythonic" in golang too much too 😄
A year helped me to get rid of those habbits.
Can't really blame here C# if he tries going classes all the time. After all, standalone functions aren't possible in C#. Nobody forbids using static methods though i think
Weird that he did not try going more static methods ^_^ they are neat for pure class languages, in ability to have less states

[pine sphinx]

[true hatch]

do you code in robotics?

[deft herald]

robotics is like the middle of the venn diagram between electrical, mechanical, and software engineering

[true hatch]

Sounds fun, My most interesting majors are CS, EE, Robotics, Finance & Law

[deft herald]

I was EE but my favorite classes were by far the ones related to robotics

my senior design project was all robotics

[true hatch]

Im transferring to another school next year, im going to an optional robotics class

it also says on the program that ill learn how to code

[harsh river]

[gritty rivet]

The US Embassy in Russia has a webpage about educational opportunities, cultural exchange programs, etc. Unfortunately all the links seem dead right now 😭 https://ru.usembassy.gov/education-culture/study-usa/

Many if not most colleges and universities in the US accept international students, but the less money you have the more you'll need to research and find scholarships etc.

[light jetty]

do recruiters care more about personal projects or job/open-source experience

[hearty island]

@fringe sphinx , would you expect a third round to be more technical than the first two? my second round was with the managing director of the specific division i'm interviewing for.

[smoky quest]

they care about 👏 the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

As such, not all projects are equal, regardless of their nature

[light jetty]

well.. that's why im asking, i have a ton of open source experience with some professional experience with some projects ive worked on in the past. i just don't know what to show on my resume, 70% professional & opensource? or 50/50

[smoky quest]

right, and none of these properties will make you more attractive just because of their nature.

[light jetty]

wdym.

[smoky quest]

For instance, jobs have more value than personal projects because they do come with more 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 , like having to collaborate with people, having to deal with customers, being on-call. Because most personal projects are just side projects you do for fun and skip the boring parts.
However there are personal projects where you did have to collaborate, or that where you want to highlight a specific skill (ex: you made your own programming language)

Is there a question?

[light jetty]

so should my entire resume be filled with open source, volunteer (with teamwork), and professional experience excluding all of my for-fun projects? even if the experience is not directly related with the position

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> ads

[empty grotto]

@smoky quest did you need help

[smoky quest]

Ask yourself: what 👏 skills 👏 are being 👏 demonstrated 👏 ?

[still condor]

!rule 9 @empty grotto

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[still condor]

anyway, this is not a place to advertise your scam

[smoky quest]

And to insist on it: being OSS is not a skill. Being a job is not a skill either.

[light jetty]

all of my experience demonstrates teamwork and collaborating on gitlab & github, although i dont know if "ai research" should be on my resume if im applying to a "systems engineering intern" position

edit: define oss? im aware of two definitions

[slim fulcrum]

The general rule is prioritze your professionl experiene you have applied your programming experience and skills in. Then, you want to follow it up with any github/open source/medium platform where you write/create python projects.

P.S. Having references are a great plus....

[smoky quest]

The rule of thumb is you should prioritize things that are relevant to the job. Then you can add things that are tangentially relevant to the job

OSS = Open Source Software

[light jetty]

okay, im aware of another "oss" that's a little more personal to me so i got a little freaked out 🤣

[light jetty]

should i use my personal projects as "filler"?

[smoky quest]

So sometimes, you want to add something that is in a different area but you want to use to demonstrate a specific 👏 skill 👏 , like being able to do something super complex or mathy

[slim fulcrum]

Work Experience (Professional) --> Personal Projects (open source/github) --> Career References. This is the chain you could adapt... btw, most resumes then don't make it past the ATS never even get to the HM.

[light jetty]

the open source projects i've worked on arent exactly "personal", but ive gotten past the ATS a couple times and the human resources employee that calls or emails me sometimes doesnt understand what the difference is between python and html.

[light jetty]

sounds good. for my next resume iteration i think ill remove all of my personal projects and fill it with my professional & open-source experience.

[smoky quest]

I typically recommend to have a master resume and then to branch it out to your personas. That is a good middle ground in terms of personalization without incurring too much work

[fringe sphinx]

Who knows, the higher up you go the conversations are harder to predict. Third round? I would guess more behavioral (do we like you), but only a guess

[light jetty]

Yeah...

[smoky quest]

exactly!

[light jetty]

It's rough out here, I've gotten some interviews but I've always been "near-second-choice"

[smoky quest]

in terms of ATS, it's mostly a myth. I am sure there are some companies who built some custom workflow, but by and large, it's just a fancy spreadsheet and passing the ATS means having your resume good enough that the EM wants to talk to you

[hearty island]

right, gotcha. tysm!

[fringe sphinx]

If you have that much content, then that makes sense to me. Personal projects are fine, if it's all you've got or it's something you've invested a long time into, but many of them are 😴

[light jetty]

Believe me, the personal projects I've worked on for fun weren't from a tutorial article 😂

But if a lot of individuals have personal projects then, I might as well purge them from my resume.

[smoky quest]

not all projects equal. a todo list application has a very different impact from building your own python interpreter running on a GPU

[light jetty]

I'm... not gonna lie, some human resources officer was more impressed than my university course sniping bot than an ai program I made.

[smoky quest]

there are many factors at play here, including how is the value communicated

What is obvious to you, the person who wrote it and is intimately familiar with it, is not necessarily obvious to another person, even if they are deeply technical

[slim fulcrum]

Best thing you can do, is add a hyper link in your resume "Github Projects" or something and you're good.

[smoky quest]

Where I am getting at is that you should take the mindset of a sales person. The fault is not on the receiving end for being too dumb or uneducated to understand the applicant's awesome work. The same way it's not on the prospect's fault for not seeing the value and not buying from a sales person.

[dusty fulcrum]

Sounds like a fun time.

[light jetty]

I've been told that they're not allowed to click on links because of security.

[dusty fulcrum]

make sure to add a tracking cookie/thingo to the link. 🙂

[smoky quest]

they are unlikely to click on it because they make decisions in 30-45s most of the time

[fringe sphinx]

Just show the text of your github repo... github.com/myname. They can type your github username.

[light jetty]

Already done.

[fringe sphinx]

I think two separate things... for a screen, nobody is clicking or looking... but post-screen? I'll sometimes look.

[dusky wharf]

Hey everyone

[dusty fulcrum]

remember to use pink scented paper, it gives it a little something extra!

[fringe sphinx]

What does pink smell like?

[light jetty]

Feels as if I'm getting trolled now 😂. I'll stop.

[smoky quest]

that's actually more than two separate thing. Each step of the funnel is an opportunity to click on it.
There is also an inverse relationship between the time spent on a candidate with the stage of the pipeline they are at

[dusty fulcrum]

pink AND scented, not pink-scented. 🙂

[dusty fulcrum]

reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p_NkHeqwIM

[slim fulcrum]

That's not really true..

[light jetty]

Doesn't apply to all the companies I've applied to, but I'm not trying to argue... so I'll just end it here.

[slim fulcrum]

It is what it is, not all companies care about this no HR or HM will be worried about a hyperlink on a resume. I have all my links as hyperlink.

[true harness]

what experience are you basing this off of? this also contradicts advice that i've been given

[slim fulcrum]

Everyone has their own opinion of resumes and dos-don'ts etc, I do my resume the way I like too and the main thing is "How can I make my resume standout?" I have never seen companies not say anything to opening links on resumes.

[fringe sphinx]

for more practical reasons, I think hyperlinks in a resume should be absolute links (or whatever you call it)... spelled out so that even if printed, the reviewer sees the full URL.

I sometimes only get / got a hardcopy of the resume.

(nowadays may be different, but with ATS systems, a lot of this stuff is copied into alt systems)

[white relic]

The problems I see with links in résumés is that candidates include them instead of or with a greatly abbreviated description.

If you have a good résumé and some of the words are hyperlinks that is fine. But if I have to click the links to see the content, I'm giving it a miss.

[heavy current]

Hi !
I'm python developer but i have no industrial experience. I'm always spend my time how to learn new.
so anyone assign me for learning purpose. like problem solving. it's free please send DM

[wraith echo]

where can i check wheather my resume is ats free

[kindred oyster]

ATS free ?

you can submit a redacted version of your resume on here for feedback from others

[wraith echo]

yes

no suggest some offical site for that

[kindred oyster]

did you mean ATS compatible ? i dont understand what ATS free means 😅

[wraith echo]

application tracking system

just google it it used to shortlist our resume

using job description

[kindred oyster]

i dont think there is a platform specifically for that
there would lots of people who would do it for some money

or there are people here with almost decades of experience(and many people with more than that) that can give you feedback as well

[smoky quest]

People know what an ATS is. It does not mean what you imply it means.
An ATS is no more than a fancy spreadsheet to track applications and candidates

[kindred oyster]

i know what ATS is , i didnt understand what ATS free meant , never heard of that term before

[wraith echo]

ok how can check that

[kindred oyster]

who can check what ?

[smoky quest]

There is nothing specific to check beyond:

• It is readable by other humans and machines. So use text instead of images. And prefer single column formats over multi-column formats
• Make sure your resume is attractive to managers so they want to call you back

Feel free to post an anonymized version of your resume here for feedback

[wraith echo]

ok bro

[hearty island]

i've had interviews where i actively show a project i've worked on by just bringing it up, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

meh sometimes in the start of the interview i go like also to prep for this interview, i've created xyz that i'd like to show you later on or maybe at the end

yea my last interviewer talked a lot about drafting risk management policies/procedures, so i showed him the one i made during my internship

i thank my lucky stars i'm a US citizen

dw man. you are a qualified person and i'm sure you will land something.

[white relic]

you can show that some companies are discriminating against you statistically, but showing that it was decisive for any in particular is much harder

[pastel thunder]

what the chance of getting ghosted after giving all interview nicely?

[white relic]

50% 🤷‍♂️

[pastel thunder]

it has been 8 days, even had an interview with director (3hrs), and total 7 hours of interview
director mentioned be ready to visit to office, havent heard back since.

asked from 3rd party sourcer(that were involved for scheduling everything), he says no updates yet

business days would be 6

[white relic]

Depending on the company, 6 days isn't that long.
Can't hurt to follow up but doesn't mean you're out yet.

[pastel thunder]

dont know whom to write email,

interviewers' linkedin is quite inactive, I set inmail and connnection request but didnt get anywhere

[deft herald]

Don't creep the interviewer on social media.

[pastel thunder]

have started ignorning since yesterday, could be because I asked "what to expect", after he mentioned no update

[deft herald]

I think you just gotta be patient

[pastel thunder]

just desperate times, my long terms plan depend on this switch.

[white relic]

There will be more opportunities. I know the uncertainty is stressful but @turbid bobcat is right, don't pin all your hopes on one thing after another, just keep grinding. The more "live" leads you have out there the easier it is to be unattached and evaluate them with equanimity when an opportunity does show up

Job hunting is like dating, but the consequence of failure is unemployment

On the other hand, a good strategy for job hunting is to do it while you already have a job. I would not recommend that approach with dating

[pastel thunder]

There are a lot of opportunities, but Its has been really hard lately to get interviews at top companies.
I saw a ray of hope when recruiter contacted me, but when i dont hear back even after interviews went great, I just know what to do,

[white relic]

Sometimes things just don't work out

[pastel thunder]

yeah

[austere epoch]

guys

[rose bramble]

hello guys I am a Swiis student and I have Algo phython exercice can someine help me pls ?

[austere epoch]

help me to solve q 5

[trim crypt]

Read #❓｜how-to-get-help and open a help thread

[rose bramble]

ok thanks

[austere epoch]

guys

[arctic herald]

Hello guys! Question for web developers.

I have been offered a project that funcions are like Facebook, Patreon and Times New York combined, also it includes custum disign and animations, also needs to work in 8 different languages.

My question: What is the price range for that project, I dont need exact number just opinions.

Thanks for help!

[sand patio]

so like, a paywalled blog?

[strange pumice]

@fringe sphinx got some news.

Got some callbacks and reach out

[strange pumice]

A million dollars

[crisp stream]

Substack

[regal axle]

The following response is copy paste from a similar question I have answered. Extract what you need from it;

There are a lot of ways you can go about it. But the method I tend to do, is the following.

1. How much do you imagine you would be payed for this type of work for a full time job.
2. How long would it take you in hours as an estimate? Let us say you think you can do it in a month. Now add extra padding. Make it realistic. You don't have to be exact. But it is good enough to be close.
3. Add a percentage up because contract work is more scarce and costs more than a normal salary position. You can go up to 50% extra. Yes, this is a real number I use.
4. That is basically it. Just do an actual number and not an hourly rate. You can use the hourly rate for you calculation. But not so much for your actual charge. And make sure to charge a rate that won't make you hate the job. Speaking of:
   pre-step; Make sure you have a well defined expectation. Both on the final product, as well as the scope. And if there are changes to the scope, it will result in changes to the price. So come to an agreement on the scope early. You will end up discovering issues you did not account for. That is fine. This is why you have padding in your calculations. Make sure to own your own mistakes and take the loss. But if it is them pushing more work on you, charge for it.

So going through the steps:

1. For simple argument here, let us say 100k.
2. It will take 40 hours to complete but there is a section that I don't know about; so an extra 10 added. And finally give myself some extra general padding of another 10 days. (this is super vibes based btw. And that is in general most of this will be vibes based).
3. We only charge an extra 30%

100k / 48 / 40 = $52/h
52 * 60 = 3,120
3,120 * 1.3 = 4,056

This is super vibes based and also a rough guideline. But this is how I do it. Really. The only other thing I didn't mention, is the cost of resources. If the job requires costs beyond labor, just put them in as raw cost plus reasonable padding. I tend to not try to charge for hardware and stuff like that.

I can’t help you estimate either how long it will take nor how much your time is worth.
And some people use different methods of cost quotes. But either way ,,,

[thick rune]

Hey guys I’m just looking for some career advice rn
I’ve been very depressed lately after months of trying I got a remote job at a startup in Indonesia since it’s in Indonesia I don’t get paid a lot but I thought I’m gaining some valuable experience as c++ dev
It’s been 4 months still looking for more jobs in the US or Canada for context I live in Canada even with the 4 month experience applied for 150 companies no positive responses
And I’m also afraid of the lay offs these days so people have been telling me to quit programming as they all are saying coding is dying and start over in some other industry cause I’m 19
Any advice on how I can improve and actually get my first real job would be helpful

I’m currently doing a degree

I’m still an undergrad I just want to work on side to gain more experience during my vacations

[white relic]

Great time to be looking for internships though

[thick rune]

I’m just scared if I end up being unemployed even after the degree because of the lay offs I know a lot of people who lost their jobs and companies are not hiring a lot of programmers that just makes me very depressed
I did not have much luck while looking for internships too unfortunately

[white relic]

By the time you finish your degree, the current economic situation will be a relative distant memory

[near ocean]

*Until the next global catastrophe

[white relic]

Well, don't give up because you didn't get one yet. You'll still need an internship in 2025, you can start looking for that one now

[thick rune]

For sure I’ll just keep looking and learning more that’s the best I can do for now

[arctic herald]

thanks alot!

[fringe sphinx]

that's great, you're gonna make it!

[shrewd parrot]

is braintrust legit for projects?

it posts jobs

[fringe sphinx]

Hey, celebrate every accomplishment! If you couldn't do it yesterday, but could today,

[modest kraken]

That screenshot is clean though

[shrewd parrot]

What is a good hourly rate to ask for a 3+ years of experienced python dev?

[fringe sphinx]

You won't like my answer: "it depends"

[country, specialty, duration/scope of project, etc]

[buoyant seal]

Also we can add here that 3 years+ experienced devs very often vary strongly in their skills.

As person that interviewed people I can tell that people can be for example expecting middle level in skills backend developers as 3+ years person to be, but very often people with junior or less (in terms of backend) skills arrived instead.

Well, and in third world countries... differences in salary between those two categories can reach 10 times of difference

[true hatch]

Are middle school grades important?

[balmy spade]

If you want to pass and reach high school, yes.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I was going to go with the nihilist: Is anything important?