career-advice

[void skiff]

anything cs related

[vapid jay]

Anything cs related that isn't gonna die out eventually is research

[void skiff]

how is my career path over before it started

are u in any cs related job?

[vapid jay]

No I'm in 2nd year in college but we are already seeing decline in placements all over the place

[leaden herald]

Bruh nothing is dying out anytime soon stop discouraging pple

[balmy mural]

A career in CS is still viable. There's a hiring slump right now since the market is overcorrecting due to overhiring during covid, not because of AI

[leaden herald]

@void skiff
@vapid jay

[vapid jay]

U guys giving him false hope

[void skiff]

im still 16 and wanted to do cs alevel next year and persue it further when im older, ive just heard a lot aboyut ai and agi stuff

[leaden herald]

Then Go on

[balmy mural]

No one is giving him false hope. There have been tons of people coming in here asking if AI is gonna take over the job market and if it's still viable. The overall opinion of people with experience in the field is no, AI won't be taking over jobs. The invention od a drill didn't mean people using screwdrivers went out of jobs, they just got a new tool to do their job more effectively

[vapid jay]

Devin can already solve 13.5% of leetcode problems and the AI decade hasn't even started. It's over

[gritty rivet]

LeetCode is over, fortunately

[vapid jay]

If they can do leetcode they can definitely do development

[void skiff]

im even more lost now fr

[balmy mural]

I wish my normal work was as simple as solving challenges that already have answers all over the internet that Devin has seen and trained on. Instead it's complex customer requirements that need to be revised over and over to reach a viable product and then implemented, demo'd, fine tuned, etc.

[hearty island]

devin is a meme

[vapid jay]

Devin can search the internet revise train and then deliver until the product is ready and optimal

[void skiff]

will it be over once agi comes out

[hearty island]

and it'll still give you the wrong answer 🙂

[leaden herald]

Then that means if you study ai too you would eventually create a devin to replace you

[vapid jay]

There can be softwares to check the security of the code. It is a build up.

[void skiff]

interesting stuff

[vapid jay]

You

[gritty rivet]

What's clear is that it won't be as easy as before. The total number of SWE jobs will decline but that number will never approach anything near zero

Either you are committed to learning what you need to learn in order to succeed, or you're not. You don't need a crystal ball, you need to know what you want

[vapid jay]

The thing is that silicon valley hates programmers and slowly but surely they will do everything to get rid of them. They don't like dividing their profit among lowly codemonkeys. I hate bankers.

[void skiff]

oki imm still new to python and cs

[leaden herald]

The tech is a trend anyway there is nothing stopping you to learn ai if you want as a swe to up your game while leave one for one

[gritty rivet]

I don't work for silicon valley so not my problem 🤣

[vapid jay]

If silicon valley gets rid of programmers then so will everyone

[gritty rivet]

So you keep exploring and learning whatever you find most interesting and the rest will work out

[vapid jay]

Unless u live in North korea

[void skiff]

im so lost now even more

[void skiff]

oki ty

[leaden herald]

Bruh stick to your python period

[void skiff]

yessir

[vapid jay]

Learn it so ur not ignorant of how the modern world works

[near ocean]

🤨

[vapid jay]

But I wouldn't expect much out of this

[void skiff]

f in chat for me

[harsh river]

if silicon didn't have programmers they would go bankrupt

[near ocean]

Who in here even works for SV, why care about whatever silly decision they make

[fringe sphinx]

They hate programmers? Since when? (Also; it's not bankers who call the shots, it's VC and increasingly PE for late stagers)

[vapid jay]

It only makes sense they do. Do they really care about innovation and learning over profit?

Also banks run the government. Noone above the bank.

[harsh river]

of course they care, if they couldn't innovate their product then they couldn't profit even further. it's why they invest billions into R&D

[whole flare]

🤔

[vapid jay]

I mean do they really care about innovation or do they care about innovation that helps them make profit. Do u think they would invest in Innovation that will make people's life better but won't make them bank

[void skiff]

F in chat for my future

[near ocean]

Your future would look so much better if you stopped believing everything people write on the internet

[dawn anvil]

it’s currently my first internship day as an software engineer i don’t understand a single thing happening is this normal?

[weak kindle]

Yes

[gritty rivet]

Sounds normal, yes 🤣 Ask lots of questions and bit by bit you'll get used to still never knowing anything

[balmy mural]

You can either believe the one doomsayer in chat or listen to everyone else who's saying not to worry. Choice is yours. Feel free to ask people what their credentials are for them to make certain claims, I'm sure most wouldn't mind sharing

[fringe sphinx]

Banks and government have little involvement at this stage (altho interest rates do increase cost of borrowing, which impacts investment): its private investments via VCs or PE (which may include some institutional money) that drive things.

[fringe sphinx]

And: VCs absolutely care about innovation: their goal is to find/fuel the next unicorn, not build the next grocery store.

Now, PE is a different story: late(r) stage companies that are taken over by PE often get squeezed

[modern owl]

what career paths can i get into with python.?

[near ocean]

You can see that by reading job descriptions with python included in the requirements on linkedin or indeed or <insert your platform of choice here>

[gritty rivet]

You can also check the job boards in the channel description

[gritty rivet]

Some decent lists like this come up with a web search too: https://flatironschool.com/blog/jobs-you-can-get-knowing-python/

[modern owl]

ok ty

[lament flicker]

anybody here? i had some questions

[gritty rivet]

If they're career related questions go ahead and ask here. If not see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

what's the best carrer right now and for the future as well??

[fringe sphinx]

That is certainly unanswerable. Can you perhaps be more specific?

It's like asking: what's the best food?

[near ocean]

The one that keeps you from starving

[deft herald]

That's probably the best answer for both questions

[still shuttle]

being born rich

[exotic pumice]

yo

[still shuttle]

but in all seriousness there is no best career, anything can happen

[exotic pumice]

what happenes if ur parents die and the money got stolen

[pine sleet]

[true harness]

I guess you'll need to find a job

[peak halo]

why does your name start with PS when greek has a letter for that

[exotic pumice]

huh

[peak halo]

greek has a letter psi. kind of like how x is ks

[exotic pumice]

i know

[peak halo]

For the record, I thought this was #python-discussion.

[lavish canopy]

is python best from a career pov

[gritty rivet]

#career-advice message

[lavish canopy]

different question

[gritty rivet]

Same problem though 🙂 Better than what for what?

[smoky quest]

it's the same.
Languages are like tools. So your question is like asking if a screwdriver is the best from a career pov. What matters is what you do with the tools, not the tool

[void skiff]

doom is a cool game

[lavish canopy]

i was stuck between c++ or python id probably choose whats in higher demand and better oaying

[smoky quest]

The main advice I would give is that a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.
During your education you will get to learn multiple languages and have a lot of preparation for your career

[gritty rivet]

If you're asking if it's a good first language to learn while you're still in high school or whatever, then sure, but you're asking on a Python server so we might be biased

[lavish canopy]

whats a cs degree

[smoky quest]

computer science

[gritty rivet]

They're mostly used for fundamentally different things so the main question is what you're trying to build

[lavish canopy]

whats more versatile

[balmy spade]

Learning how to program and problem solve is the most versatile.

[lavish canopy]

what

[gritty rivet]

Learning a single language isn't versatile

[smoky quest]

you will most likely end up knowing both languages and even more languages.
You just need to start somewhere and python is a great starter language

[lavish canopy]

i mean like whats used more , what opens up more options and whats higher demand

[lavish canopy]

so start with python then learn c++

[balmy spade]

Someone who understands programming principles, problem solving methods, and can apply them to the problems at hand. That's what is in high demand. The language will change frequently. Don't chase a language. Chase the skill. Pick a language that gives you a reason to learn now and learn it. Python, c++, what-have-you.

[gritty rivet]

What everyone here is telling you is that this is the wrong question. But if you want to search Indeed or LinkedIn for job openings that mention each one you'll have those numbers

[smoky quest]

yep

[lavish canopy]

hm ok

[smoky quest]

fyi, am not fond of these numbers leading points.
Reading through the first one, I still wonder what are the goals and context

I prefer better the variants of the STAR method

otherwise it sounds too much like technobabble and I have to reverse engineer what the heck you were working on

[crude folio]

Salary expectations in South UK for 5-6YOE software dev?

[smoky quest]

do a test:

• Show your resume to strangers and ask them what problem you were solving

as a stranger, you can sum up my goal of trying to size the breadth and depth of your work

the jargon is fine

[gritty rivet]

Check Glassdoor, Level.fyi, and the job listings

[smoky quest]

everyone knows what transformers are and torch.
They are like tools, like a screw driver.

The problem is trying to figure out what you did with these tools

[crude folio]

Okay, I'll stop being lazy 😅 thanks

[whole flare]

cooked

[smoky quest]

alright, trying a different way to explain it:
One of the differences between an entry level and a senior engineer is the scope of the problem. As the engineer grows and mature, they will handle larger problems that are also more ambiguous.
So that does mean that a junior engineer will focus on implementing a transformer to classify text while a senior will focus on parsing receipts for automatically generating expense reports and where the transformer is just one part of reaching that goal. Focusing too much on the specific implementation and throwing it at people's faces will make you appear more like a junior than senior.
Plus when you convey information about a large scope, you typically go with a STAR related method so that you can set the proper context. That implies a top down approach. Starting with numbers and technical details means you are taking a bottom up approach, which runs the risk of loosing readers and confusing them

People get promoted because they already operate at that higther level.
I would encourage you to take that opportunity to shift your mindset so you operate at that senior level 😉

[regal axle]

Even if that is the case, it is generally better to up sell yourself. Within reason. And this is within reason.

[smoky quest]

I would still recommend to reverse the <impact> <-> <thing that you did> so the impact is more impactful

[earnest umbra]

hello someone here speaks spanish

do you do

[peak halo]

We only allow English here. For other languages, take a look at the international list of Python user groups: https://wiki.python.org/moin/LocalUserGroups

[earnest umbra]

thank you

[pastel thunder]

how good is a publication in CVPR workshop?

[fleet reef]

https://discord.gg/hablemospython
https://discord.gg/programacion

[gritty rivet]

84.37% good

It obviously depends on what jobs and what resume

[vapid jay]

Teach me spanish

[trim flower]

Hey what's this python logo of the server?

[tight gulch]

i am just make up my mind to learn python and i dont have any prior knowledge of any programming language any helpful suggestion will be valuable for me.

[trim flower]

Well some research would be helpful, if you can check on which language is commonly used for what applications, it will help you to achieve your goal because some languages offer features that others don't, if you have no particular goal in mind regarding what you'll do out of programming the go ahead with any language and learn where it is widely used so that you can make a good career out of it. Same goes with py

[regal axle]

#changelog message

[trim flower]

Ohh, Eid Mubarak to all😁

[mortal eagle]

Quick question
I'm 23 years old. I left university a while ago because the program wasn't good. I've been working as a software developer and IT specialist for a company for 3 years. Just now that I've decided to end my employment with this company and I'm looking for new opportunities, I'm encountering the problem that most companies require a Bachelor’s degree in computer science, Information Systems, or Engineering.
Not having my BA is very frustrating for me because I can successfully solve technical tests, be the ideal candidate, but in the end, they can't offer me the contract due to not having a Bachelor’s degree. I have various certifications such as AWS, AZ-900, CompTIA, Coursera course certificates, 3 years of experience in backend and frontend development, and a GitHub repository with personal projects. It seems ridiculous to me that companies give more importance to a BA... I just returned to university, but it will take me 3 years to obtain my BA, and I'm missing out on many job opportunities.
Does anyone know if there is any way to obtain a Diploma or certificate ASAP, any course from a university, or diploma that could serve me as a substitute for a BA to show on my CV?
I would also like to know what opinions are on this topic.

[smoky quest]

a degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

That said, I am surprised to hear you went through the whole interview process successfully to only be rejected at the end because of the lack of degree. I would have expected such rejections to happen before going into the interview process

[mortal eagle]

Ye I think I'll have to be patient in the coming years until I finish my degree but sometimes it feels like im just wasting my time in college instead of being taking another AWS certificate or learning a new framework Idk, maybe Im wrong

[smoky quest]

a degree will get you to learn things far more interesting than an AWS certificate and open more interesting doors

[mortal eagle]

True

[pastel thunder]

what does 84.37 mean? It does seem like the acceptance rate

[crimson vessel]

I think the best thing is to find a university that will accept your credits, so you can get your BA. Although do more research, I'm also in very similar boat.

[proven crest]

I'm not sure how good this advise is, so I'd check with others, but if your requirements are a recognised BA and receiving it ASAP, WGU offers an acrredited, online, self paced degree program. They'll take your previous credits too. If you are experienced you may be able to get through it in less than 3 years, however I'm not sure if the degree will be viewed as less than by some employers:
https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees/computer-science.html

[leaden herald]

#python-discussion

[sonic lion]

Hello

Python is a programming language but pycharm is an Integrated Development Environment (IDE) which has many essential tools for a python developer.

you can start your learning process with just Integrated Development and Learning Environment (IDLE) which is installed on your pc alongside python. for more complex topics having an IDE is needed. you can use pycharm or vscode. both are great

guys what is the best way to learn machine learning with python? i tried learning about linear regression but i feel overwhelmed by all the math and visualization and coding that are behind every concept.

have you tried self studying ML ? if you have what is your suggestion

[lime vine]

pretty sure resumes could be auto scanned for checking basically

in some cases

you got this

[sonic lion]

yeah i have the problem of trying to understand everything about a topic all together

i guess i should take things slowly. thanks for your answer

if you can take a udemy course i suggest 100 days of coding by Angela Yu

you can also learn fundementals from youtube. Mosh Hamedani has some great videos to start your learning journey

yeah it's a great course

it is a pretty long one so don't feel discouraged if it takes alot of time

on and off for a year

yeah it makes alot of sense. especially for machine learning stuff which are complex

I think another problem is self studying it. maybe I should take a course

lately yes because i have discovered my passion

I started from front-end programming but i didn't enjoy it

I suggest learning python because you can use it in many different ways and it's a great language

later on try to understand your passion in coding world. you can use python in basically everything from ai to web and so on

python website has a documentation and if you are into learning things thru reading , it's a great source

[fathom ember]

start from python then go into c++

at least one month of python then go straight like a train into c++

[lime vine]

i learnt most from Bro Code's tutorial

[spare tendon]

good morning everyone, has anyone ever used the chatgpt API_key?
I'm making a program and I want to integrate AI

[fringe sphinx]

This is the careers channel. Start in #python-discussion plz

[last oriole]

Does anyone know any good html css server?

[tidal sage]

i think this is not a servr for html and css

read the name of the server i guess

[last oriole]

I know that lol I was just asking if anyone know any html css server

[gritty rivet]

There's a few on Disboard

[fluid moat]

I am trying to learn enough python for an entry level position in data science/engineering. I have programmed in other languages, I did read python crash course and i'm going through the python tutorial. I am doing some projects in the mean time.
In terms of material, is the tutorial enough or do I need more?

[frail iris]

learning python have some questions and coding trouble looking for help if ya can help send me friend request

[peak halo]

see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[peak halo]

you won't be a competitive applicant for entry level data science or data engineering positions without a degree.

[fluid moat]

I do have one, it's just python was never taught except a mini course.

[frail iris]

ohhh,thanks

[peak halo]

did you do any internships?

[fluid moat]

yes one

[peak halo]

did it have anything to do with data science or data engineering?

[fluid moat]

the degree is in DS, the internship kinda

[peak halo]

if you have a degree in data science from an accredited university, you should be able to just start applying to the kinds of positions you mentioned.

you should probably follow along with a python book or video course about "python for data science" so that you learn how to use numpy, pandas, sklearn, etc.

[fluid moat]

I am doing that, it's just I haven't had much luck and so I was looking to put some time into learning more as well. I would like to have a more complete understanding of this language and learn it properly. I have looked at some of the ds libraries already. I was just curious what material I could cover for the language in general.

[peak halo]

the official python tutorial is mostly for people coming to the language from C. and there hasn't been tons of investment in making it accessible to everyone, because there's a ton of python tutorials all over the internet

[fluid moat]

So for a general audience, is there a better comprehensive source?

[peak halo]

We have a curated resources page on our website. If you already know the fundamentals of the language and want to go from intermediate to advanced, the best book is Fluent Python

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[lucid knot]

I took an online masterclass course and liked it you can probably look for one

[fluid moat]

So considering i did python crash course, after the official tutorial, do you say I can dive into that?

[peak halo]

Do you have an example of some code you wrote that demonstrates different language features that you know?

[fluid moat]

I'd say I've worked with concepts like type hints, exceptions, loops and conditionals, classes and functions. Things like that.
For example, I am unfamiliar with stuff like generators. iirc i tried looking at the first few pages of fluent python and it seemed a bit complicated back then. I felt that like you said, it's more so to go to intermediate from advanced. I don't consider myself intermediate yet, and would like to work up to that.

[peak halo]

okay, then try a different resource from our website.

[fluid moat]

I think i'll keep at the docs, I don't find them too difficult at the moment but they seem helpful. Thanks 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Looking solid, make sure to use consistent tense (-ed, no -ing) in the bullets

[deft herald]

Honestly what would you rather have? Constructive criticism or "yup looks good don't change anything"?

Ok, well that's different. Yeah screw those guys

What does this mean?

How about "deploy GPU spot machines implementing VSCode in browser"

This could be reworded too. I don't like the words "coded" and "coding"

[deft herald]

Of course what you did involved code. It's just not a necessary word. Can you say something like "Increased preprocessing efficiency by parallelizing whatever"

And the metric doesn't necessarily have to be in dollars. It can be a % of time saved or something

[pastel thunder]

how good is a publication in CVPR workshop?

"workshop"

it also has multiple workshops, right

I think CPVR workshop is a little easier than CVPR

yeah definitely not useless, but wanted to actually estimate how good it is

I have heard cvpr workshop > wacv and bmvc main conf
but dont know much

$x/run

[strange fox]

hey guys so suppse i just finished the basics of python
like i know all loops stuff , if else , some adv conncept like threading and oops

Now if i have to prepare myself for a entry level job as a python developer
what skills are required for it

[peak halo]

One generally won't find jobs that apply skills you can learn online for free in weeks or months. Let alone well-paying ones. So if you're a young person without any professional experience, the best thing you can do to appeal yourself to hiring managers for programmer positions is to get a computer science degree.

[strange fox]

i am already into a degree program just aksing for furuther studies
like i recently finished cs50 python
now clewless what to do next

[peak halo]

if you're currently a computer science student at a university, you should be looking at internships. it's probably too late to find one for this summer. So for next summer, you should talk to the career services center for your university, and see what internships are typically offered to students at your university

if a lot of the positions are, for example, back-end web development internships, and that appeals to you, then you'll want to work towards that.

[strange fox]

amm actuly there are still some i am trying to get in

[strange fox]

yaa so like to get such a thing i obviusly need a skill set right

[peak halo]

which ones? what skills do they say they want applicants to have?

[strange fox]

its in police department here like if i am lucky enought to be choosen by them
and about skill sets they want good knwolage of python then they can teach u how things work there

[peak halo]

all they say is "a good knowledge of python"?

[strange fox]

so ya i was aksing for skillset what i will need if i want a intern other then this
and what skillset would be best for freelensing opportunites

[strange fox]

thats word i used to explain u

[peak halo]

if you're a university student with no professional experience, it's very unlikely that you'll get any freelancing opportunities--looking for them would probably be a bad use of your time.

if you just want to build generic Python skills, you can try implementing one of the project ideas here:

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[strange fox]

oke let me see it

[lofty zephyr]

Any advice to incorporate python / coding best practices into your work if you are not officially a developer?

My issue is that I feel like I am not learning good habits and technical processes, yet I am still coding at my job. While I am not a pure SWE, a lot of my work does require code support. Does anyone have similar experience?

[peak halo]

what is your title, and a brief summary of your job responsibilities?

[lofty zephyr]

my current title is GIS Technician. Job responsibilities can range from coding new scripts/tools, ad hoc spatial analysis, and manually editing geospatial data.

[buoyant seal]

i am DevOps engineer that has good half of my obligations ... in infrastructure languages far out of normal programming languages.
I "balance" things for pure coding with having a ton of practice in pet projects (usually for gaming communities)

• https://github.com/darklab8/fl-darkstat
  • for example building web tool to navigate game data in space simulator
    Also i learned all the best practices from books
• https://www.amazon.fr/Code-Complete-Second-Steve-McConnell/dp/0735619670
• https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Testing-Principles-Practices-Patterns/dp/1617296279
• https://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Kent-Beck/dp/0321146530
• https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Architecture-Craftsmans-Software-Structure/dp/0134494164
  I can tell that my full time SWE coworkers i think haven't bothered learning the amount of best practices i learnt 😄 So at this point i find myself naving no need learning theory further, just needing doing more and more practice

[lofty zephyr]

Love this. Thank you for the resources!

[buoyant seal]

i can also tell that i reject management responsibilities to take, in order not to be even more splitted between different career paths.
hard enough to balance between pure coding side/backend and infrastructure stuff as it is

[lofty zephyr]

Yeah def true. I guess as an example we actually have a lot of tools out for our team … but no version control. Stuff like that where dev procedures aren’t on par to more traditional development

[buoyant seal]

but no version control
wtf.... how commercial development is possible without version control.

[lofty zephyr]

It’s really not… Tbf these are only internal scripts.

[fringe sphinx]

Back in the day, I once had a it dev mgr say: "we don't use version control because our code changes too frequently". I think about this at least once a week.

I wish I could say that was a joke. It wasn't.

[lofty zephyr]

Yea… not ideal imo, and my “technical lead” seemed surprised that I brought up version control for our tools

I digress, just trying to have some sort of standards when it’s the Wild West currently. And learn from it too

[harsh river]

sounds like they follow my process

[smoky quest]

yes and that's okay!
Awesomeness is a process, not a state.

That's also why I am a huge fan of retrospectives. It gives the time to reflect on how things are going at the meta level and to improve them

[random spade]

Hello, how is everyone? I don't know if I'm posting this question in the correct channel, but I'll post it anyway. I'm a pure mathematician speciliasing in functional analysis (in particular, I work with stochastic processes in Riesz spaces). I have some Python knowledge and I'm trying to shift my research area to financial mathematics (this is a delayed process, based on my purpose for employment at the University). I'm looking to leave academia and find a job, well, out of academia. I'm looking to move to Iceland (I'm South African and I live in South Africa, so I'm finding it challenging to be taken seriously by almost anyone in Europe). Does anyone have any suggestions on what path to follow in order for me to make myself more desirable to the European market (particularly as a South African applicant)?

I apologise for the question. It's not actually an appropriate question, I think, on a second look, but I'm a bit desperate.

[deft herald]

I think the question is quite appropriate for this channel. Unfortunately I'm in US so i really can't give any advice here. Hopefully someone around here can though...

[random spade]

Ah, thank you for your response! OK, I'll see if anyone has some advice for me, thank you!

[proud trout]

ive been learning python but how do i know when i have like fully learned so i can move on to the next language

[gritty rivet]

You will never have "fully learned" Python

Focus on what you want to build. Learn what you need when you need to in order to do actual stuff you want to do

[leaden herald]

You never stop learning a language

[leaden herald]

You just keep building stuff

[gritty rivet]

I would be looking on LinkedIn for the people doing the work you would like to do in Iceland. They will have the best advice

[harsh river]

i want to work on my CV, however, i've been working mostly freelance for the past 4 years or so, but all my clients have been pretty much informal, not sure then how i list my work experiences without it feeling like a lie

[gritty rivet]

I would probably list those 4 years as one self employed period with a single summary, and maybe emphasize individual projects in another section

[late sage]

Hey so I'm a sophomore studying CS and I've always had the goal of landing a job in the US. I wanted to get some advice in how to contact recruiters, is it fine if I start connecting or messaging them in Linkedin stating that I'm interested in an internship at their company? Or are there better approaches for this?

[dim apex]

anyone here taken Udemy courses on DSA?

they are all on sale and im looking into taking a course

[high mason]

🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[mortal kite]

Working on EX200, nearly ready for the exam, what certs do people recommend I work on next? Aiming for a devops role, but won't say no to regular engineering.

[torpid birch]

firs time actually getting an technical interview for a python role, what can i expect for question related to:

edge computing, device monitoring, and system integration
distributed systems, microservices architectures, and Docker

Or is there a website that i can check questions related to this?

[gritty rivet]

Yes there is a website called you can check,. it's called Google 😉

If you search edge computing interview questions, for example, you will see numerous results

If it's a big company you can also find people reporting on interview experiences on places like Glassdoor

[dire hinge]

Hi

[near rapids]

Hi

[vague cipher]

Hello,

Currently learning python from Angela Yu's course on Udemy. Although I see this to learn the basic of python I want to use python for infrastructre automation (Cloud and Linux mostly). Is there any other learning resource that fits this need?

[gritty rivet]

https://github.com/tuladhar/Python-for-SysAdmin

[vague cipher]

thank you 🙂

[whole flare]

👏

[fringe sphinx]

Nice, that's exciting!

[somber cipher]

im kind of scared is there any point in keep learning coding or getting a degree with all the Ai stuff hapening around..? idk if i should into other fields cus i dont wanna graduate with a useless degree

[peak halo]

it's hard to say what long-term effect generative AI will have, but it won't be able to fully eliminate software development as a profession in the forseeable future.

[somber cipher]

but wont rookies just get pushed out when companies just hire the pros that already have experience etc?

sry if i sound dumb

[gritty rivet]

Unless you have a viable plan to switch, better study hard, and learn to use AI to your advantage

[deft herald]

There's a trade off between cost to hire and experience. It's a huge expence for a company to hire a 10-15-year senior who's stubborn and not willing to learn new things compared to a fresh new grad with huge ambition

[white relic]

many companies do that, but it is only a stable strategy because there are other companies that hire rookies and turn them into pros

[deft herald]

And yeah. Best advice I can give for AI is to not be scared of it but learn to use it as a tool to make you a better dev

[gritty rivet]

It's never again going to be stupid-easy to get hired at the entry level the way it was for a little while, but it's still a viable career if you're committed to it

[peak halo]

no, you're good.

generative AI might make it less desirable to hire junior engineers. but generative AI isn't the only phenomenon affecting demand for software engineers. other factors might increase demand. and "we're only going to hire software engineers with > n years of experience" isn't a viable long-term strategy if everyone does it.

But even if we assume the worst case scenario--that junior developer positions become almost impossible to get--that probably won't happen for long enough for you to secure yourself as a competent developer.

[somber cipher]

mhm

tysm everyone i understand now n thank you for the very good advice :) wish me luck

[deft herald]

gl hf

[peak halo]

and of course, if you become a generative AI professional, you'd be the last one to be replaced

[balmy stirrup]

Im using this course as well. Only on Day 9 with zero experience coding. Its challenging but it has been fun.

[whole flare]

until your AI turns on you and replaces you /j

[torpid sky]

Hey guys I started learning python plz suggest some good resources

[hearty island]

!resoures

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[lucid citrus]

Hey guys I'm learning HTML, CSS, and javascript. Is this enough for web development? Or do I need more? Currently, I'm learning and building my portfolio at once.

[white relic]

"enough" is a tricky word.

Is it possible to get a job with only (presumably self-taught) HTML, CSS and JS? Sure. Is it likely? Depends on a variety of factors, but for most people, probably not in the short term (1 year or less)

if you continue practicing and developing your skills, demonstrating them through progressively more challenging projects, and apply to many openings, it is all but certain you will get a job eventually. But that can take longer than many people are able/willing to wait.

[balmy oak]

Go look up like 10 jobs in web development searching javascript. Reverse engineer their requirements. They will most likely have a framework or 2. Pick one and learn it

[white relic]

solid idea

Will it be "enough"? You won't know until you get the job.

[balmy mural]

Hey there, fellow South African here. Just want to clarify some of the info you've given. Are you currently working at a university and are you busy with a Masters or PhD? How many years of experience do you have in academia?
Worker protection is a lot better in Europe, and for most of the countries they'd have to sponsor a highly skilled migrants visa or an equivalent visa for you to move there and work there. This generally means having to pay a minimum salary that can be quite high depending on the exact field and how many years of experience you have. (Basically impossible to reach at a junior level).

Options you could consider that I'm aware of is looking at companies like dutchdevelopmentjobs - they specialize in recruiting South African developers to place them at companies in the Netherlands and help relocate them there. I have no idea if there are similar companies for Iceland, but I do know there are multiple such companies for the Netherlands.
Alternative option (path I'm currently on) is to look for a South African company that also has branches in Iceland, and then at some point transfer to Iceland within the company with an ICT (Internal Company Transfer) visa or equivalent. They generally have the same rules/restrictions as a skilled migrant visa.

[buoyant seal]

Not really. You have several choices here for most likely stuff.

1. Frontend pure path... Usually it is common to learn React (optionally Vue/Angular) and relevant ecosystem to write "enterprise" code. From using jest to having typescript and etc. U can check map from here https://roadmap.sh/frontend

2. Frontend augmented by fullstack path. Same as above, but you are more butter spreaded with also needing to get hang of Node.js/Mongo/Relational dbs/Optionally Django and etc for some backend stuff you can check map from here https://roadmap.sh/full-stack

3. Backend path, instead of going towards frontends, embracing server side only going way. Django/Flask/FastAPI in python world, with Django Rest Framework/Optionally Django Ninja. learning unit testing, learning using python at good level. Optionally same can be done with relative success with Typescript or other languages. Needing to learn Relational dbs for sure like Postgresql/Mysql and etc. Getting hang of Linux/Docker is preferably nice. You can check map from here https://roadmap.sh/backend

4. Or you can be rejecting frontend and backend, and going to CMS development, like Wordpress and etc, they do need Html/Css/JS(php) too.
   This path is probably the lowest in requirements, but also low in other departments

[umbral osprey]

#1227651742519267431 message can someone pls help, i think Python 3.12 changed something...

[steady lagoon]

is Python still a good choice if I want to be a tester nowadays?

[deft herald]

Sure. What would you like me to ask?

[deft herald]

A tester of what?

[gritty rivet]

Choice for your first language? Sure

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[wispy rampart]

I didn't go to college, but I highly doubt it actually prepares you for real world work. Prove me wrong... (CS)

[pine sleet]

it does not, at face value. most devs are not going to be using calculus in their day to day jobs

but the critical thinking skills that your courses teach you are important

[wispy rampart]

Like what for example?

[fringe sphinx]

Do you have a SWE job?

[wispy rampart]

It'd hurt my bank account.

[pine sleet]

that's why there are many ways to get financial aid

[wispy rampart]

Yes

[fringe sphinx]

I agree that college doesn't -look like- it prepares you for actual work, and that it's popular to crap on it, but that's only a superficial read

[fringe sphinx]

So what's your question? Is college useful?

[wispy rampart]

I think it isn't actually useful for the types of things that actually happen day to day.

[fringe sphinx]

That's fair, as with all college degrees: they're not meant to be technical training or bootcamps, and a lot of practical learning happens outside the classroom.

But, from my seat, college educated SWEs have a higher success rate and outcome. They generally (generalization, of course) are more well rounded and ready to hit the ground running.

[balmy mural]

Yes, the specific stuff I did in college doesn't have a 1:1 carry over to my actual job. However, the critical thinking it taught me, the chances to network, structured courses teaching things I wouldn't even know to google and won't stumble onto on my own were all invaluable

[wispy rampart]

I have a hard time figuring out what exactly makes them better prepared to do so. You have bootcamps and udemy and leetcode and other educational resources outside of college.

[fringe sphinx]

This also feels like a cherry picked phrasing: 'day to day' isn't the point of college. If college taught 'how to use GitHub' or 'how to open a jira issue', I'd be disappointed

[pine sleet]

anybody can learn that in a couple of weeks

people don't pay big bucks and spend 4 years of their life to learn how to use github

[fringe sphinx]

Leetcode (dsa) is the subject of a single semester course.

Those others are also like a one semester intro to programming coverage.

[whole flare]

I did 😔 (I am JiaT75 /j)

[pine sleet]

while all the content taught in a 4 year CS degree is out there for free on the internet, the structured progression of a university degree plan, the access to direct help from your professors, the oppurtunities for professional development, and of course, the accreditation are a large portion of it

[balmy mural]

A normal bootcamp would probably be 1-2 intros to programming. One for a language, and normally one for relational databases

At the same time, from what I've seen from bootcamps, we learned significantly more about relational databases than the standard bootcamp covers

[fringe sphinx]

My usual answer to these is to analogize mathematical maturity to programming maturity: there's a progression in abstract thinking that takes focused effort to improve. (This isn't elitism, but I'll acknowledge it sounds like it) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_maturity

[pine sleet]

but if you want something that's more directly impactful, college educated folks generally start with higher salaries and get to higher salaried positions faster than their college uneducated counterparts. also a lot of tech jobs require one

[wispy rampart]

I've long believed that school in general is more for what I will call "social-learning".

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, there's different angles of your question. Theres the: 'many young adults still have some maturing (academically and socially) to do', there's the 'it forces you to work on skills that are uncomfortable to learn', there's the empirical 'better outcome job/pay/etc', there's the: 'social and social network and side benefits', etc

[brisk gulch]

Good afternoon guys!
I’m Adetunji and recently got an associate degree in Software engineering, please is there a channel where I can get information about python related jobs?

[peak halo]

There is not; see #rules and the description of this channel

[deft herald]

Learning to work with others on a team is huge too

[wispy rampart]

To be more transparent about why I've come to this conclusion is that I'm working on a CS course that includes a lot of what I've learned and I think it's practially impossible that a college course could even cover half of what I've added to the course. To test this, I demoed the curriculum for a recent CS grad and they literally said that the course had way more than they learned in college.

[peak halo]

You can get advice related to careers and your job hunt in this channel, but you can't actually look for jobs in this server.

[brisk gulch]

Okay, thank you!

[peak halo]

No problem. I hope you find something!

[brisk gulch]

Please can I get a CV template, I want to create my CV, don’t have any yet.

[half mirage]

Hii, I am looking forward to learning python but I don't know where I could possibly find resources online. I have budget and it would be alright to pay for a subscription, but if anyone knows a site please let me know

[wispy rampart]

I'm working on something. DM me for more details

[peak halo]

https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/awesome-cv/dfnvtnhzhhbm
it's nice to do your CV/resume in latex. and then you can version it with git.

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[peak halo]

what exactly are you asking them to DM you about?

[half mirage]

thanks

[digital fjord]

Yeah, especially undergraduate CS is often very much just a shallow smathering of everything so that the student can choose to specialize in what they find interesting, and so that they are qualified to determine whether something is interesting.

[wispy rampart]

About link to resources as this isn't the channel for that

[half mirage]

I heard abt sololearn

i used it before, im looking to restart, tho i know very little

is jetbrains good?

I heard of it b4

[peak halo]

they make the most feature-rich code editors (IDEs) on the market--everyone agrees with that much. though some people don't want that many features, or dislike the UI, etc. It's all a matter of taste.

[half mirage]

I see. But will it get me somewhere?

[peak halo]

if you know how to use pycharm (their python IDE), it can be very helpful

[half mirage]

are there more types of python? also... what's an IDE...

oh

[wispy rampart]

So far my recommendations for getting into SWE without having to go to college is to

1. find a good community of developers who are willing to help
2. Watch plenty of coding interviews on Youtube
3. Learn the technologies and topics mentioned on top SWE linkedIN profiles/resumes (based on your path)
4. Of course you should learn a programming language (I think the one you choose should be focused on your path, for example, Python for working with data and perhasp AI)
5. DSA and Algos are okay, but learn Design patterns and System Design
6. Learn how to translate business rules into business logic.
7. Build a portfolio of apps that demonstrate topics you learn while you learn them.
8. Find and attend local coding Meetups
9. Attend developer conferences if possible
10. Learn technologies listed on career pages for the company you want to work at

I do have other suggestions but the list is forming.

[half mirage]

im gonna try sololearn

ty

and you were right, it really is a lot different

I kinda dont understand many things abt python, like levels, but I'm sure gonna do my best

[deft herald]

levels?

[peak halo]

@half mirage did you ghost ping me? Please don't do that.

[half mirage]

I'm very sorry

[fringe sphinx]

My general recommendation here is; get an adjacent job first, or accept whatever low-end dev job you can find (likely some simple web dev or scripting work). Big tech won't interview you, and many small techs won't either (especially in this job market).

[hearty island]

i'm trying to break into data analytics in PWM (private wealth mgt). it's hard to do so bc i don't have a finance degree

i took on a new approach of emailing people at small firms and basically pitching myself to see what happens, more often than not i'll probably be met with silence

[half mirage]

I bought the subscription

And it took the money but I didn't unlock anything, should I wait?

nevermind i did smth and works now

[hearty island]

maybe it's more fintech related than anything?

[wispy rampart]

That's really Good. I actually did this. I did tech support for a software company

[wispy rampart]

What is the finance degree needed for? To get an idea of different fields I've used ChatGPT in times past

[hearty island]

it's hard to break into finance places if you don't have one. imo chat gpt isn't really enough

[wispy rampart]

I actually work at a fintech company with no finance degree nor cs degree. Most of the stuff I do doesn't require domain knowledge, although that would help>

[near ocean]

What do you do then?

[hearty island]

I’m also curious

[wispy rampart]

I build features and fix bugs for an online bill pay portal to help customers pay their bills. Most of the work is with APIs and making sure client data works with our system. I’m not required to know about finance, just how to build the feature to make the payments happen successfully. If there were some sort of finance formula I needed to implement, then I’d just look it up or ask a question and turn it into code and make sure the data gets to where it needs to be in the format it needs to be, and looks like how the client wants it to look.

[half pagoda]

hi all, I'm looking to build my python skills and I'm torn between taking Angela Yu's 100 day Udemy course or the Automate the Boring Stuff Udemy course. would it be beneficial to take both? Or do Angela's then read the ATBS book? Or do something else? I took a python course in college 7-8 years ago so definitely need a more basic refresher. I'm looking to get into data analytics/science and have SQL and Excel prior experience from my current career (currently have a BSc in a math-based background). Probably would be beneficial to have some sort of certification right?
edit: want to clarify I am interested in switching industries, that's why I am learning Python vs learning it on the job where I don't use Python

[half pagoda]

right now data analytics for sports (hockey specifically) is probably my goal, or if that doesn't pan out maybe for just general business

[plush summit]

Maybe take a look at pandas and powerbi could be fun if you like data

[balmy oak]

Pick angela's over the Automate the boring stuff. Angela's is much more course focused on actually teaching the ins and outs of python. Automate the boring stuff is much more of a reference than a cirriculum.

[gritty rivet]

Do either or both, whatever keeps you engaged and learning and building stuff. That's all that matters.

[balmy oak]

Idk what your expectations are but neither course nor the book will make you employable by themselves. Building projects and continuously learning will eventually.

[fringe sphinx]

!res Have you seen this yet?

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[half pagoda]

I did see that, wasn't super sure where to start tbh, was a little overwhelmed with all the options

[fringe sphinx]

Filter on 'beginner' and free to start

[half pagoda]

i did talk to someone in the exact position I want to be in, and he had said that he does most of his work in python which is what got me on this path

[half pagoda]

thanks!

[fringe sphinx]

For sure, Python has really taken the lead for general purpose :https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023. Doesnt mean its 'better', just useful for lots of purposes

[vapid jay]

I got a call from somebody yesterday from Dallas Tx apparently.

[half pagoda]

yeah agreed, talking with someone they did mention that in some interviews I will most likely show off some projects that I worked on myself to showcase my thinking. but need to figure out how to get there from here

[vapid jay]

I texted him and ask him "Why do you keep saying nothing? It's creepy." He told me in broken english that he called about a job opportunity, said he also sent it on Linkedin. Thing is : I saw nothing on my linkedin

[half pagoda]

I vaguely remember using pandas in my college course, would I just look up videos on how to best utilize it?

[vapid jay]

Jojo, udemy is useless for you, gonna tell you that right now.

I know because I was spamming udemy classes in college, even finished most of them. Won't do any good.

So you've used Udemy before and kept what you learned there?

Which one and what topic?

I'm open minded.

Forreal? Incidently, I'm trying to learn SQL now . . . .and this book is meaty. . .Gotta finish it by the end of the week.

[half pagoda]

probably moreso on the predictive side of things, like viewing player's stats and recommending improvements on what works what doesn't. general trends in the player data, less so on the business side

[vapid jay]

https://www.udemy.com/course/the-complete-sql-bootcamp/?couponCode=ST8MT40924 This one?

Just to be clear, you got hired right?

Okay, Mr. Saucy Pants. . . . 😠

Hey, I was learning networking and several ppl here told me to learn SQL instead.

and reading the book has been going slowly. .. ..

That much I've managed to absorb.

[fringe sphinx]

I learned networking first, later Sql. Both are important

[vapid jay]

sigh great. . .More conflicting information.

[digital fjord]

The order doesn't really matter, you'll need to know both

[vapid jay]

"networking will not be useful to you, unless you're doing your own database administration" is what public state told me. @.@

[fringe sphinx]

'Networking is not useful if you're not connecting to other computers'. FTFY

[vapid jay]

That's kind of what made his statement feel so weird to me, it's like. . . . Its just writing code to connect to other computers that aren't using sockets 0 - 1023

Man, I don't friggin know right now, right now I just need to get a job as a web-dev by May.

I got the degree, my projects suck so I'm learning the stuff I need to make good projects

I thought I wanted to code games, then I saw how they were treated and how that industry is TOO exploitative. (That and I don't play games anymore)

Ideally, I would LIKE to start a business, but I know too little and my way into being able to make a product will come from learning from the industry.

Ideally right now? I WANT to fight as a pro MMA fighter, but MMA classes cost money.

[fringe sphinx]

And ppl punch you

[vapid jay]

Can't make an Omlette without catching a few hands. lol. Got punched a lot as a kid, being hit doesn't frighten me tbh.

[foggy musk]

does university rank in computer science matter for applying for a high ranking company i.e. FAANG, etc

I will be applying to mostly top 20s in the UK, but have applied to a few safer options in case just wondering if those "safer" options that maybe dont rank as high but arent horrible just average unis

[white relic]

Not really.

[fringe sphinx]

What difference would it make at this point?

[whole flare]

those damn protocols /j

[vapid jay]

after I finish learning THE BASICS OF MySQL and Networking, what should I go for after that?

[fringe sphinx]

Tbf, top schools will get you a closer look.

[foggy musk]

Thank ya!

[fringe sphinx]

Depth or breadth, your choice

[vapid jay]

. . . .

Alright, how about this : can somebody show me an example of a reusme that got them an entry level job in a python role? Because this is fucking impossible.

What's a "good project" , bro?

[fringe sphinx]

Have you posted your resume here for review? (Redacted)

[vapid jay]

I tried asking a hiring manager that once, wanna know what I got? Silence.

See? It's this right here that is just insanely frustrating. . . . I ask a specific question, and get an ambiguous answer. Ask the recruiters? Get silence. Ask the Youtubers? Get a grift.

[fringe sphinx]

I mostly agree, but it doesn't need to be impressive or unique. Just show: you can code, you're at the skill level we're hiring for, and you're in the right geographical area.

[white relic]

How I got a job definitely wouldn't translate to anything you can do right now

[vapid jay]

NJ / New York is the right geographical area?

[white relic]

And the resumes of people I've hired for entry-level jobs recently are also widely variable

[fringe sphinx]

lol, my 'how I got a job' was equally not transferable

[near ocean]

If other people give you a project it wont exactly be unique

[vapid jay]

Look man, I don't need it to be transferrable. I just need to be able to visualize that this is possible. Because, I have done SO much reading over the past 4 months and if I have to once again do a WHOLE lot of work for a whole lot of nothing? I don't know how I can deal.

and yes, I've done coding too.

[fringe sphinx]

Because screening is highly subjective

[vapid jay]

Alright, I can't take this anymore

[fringe sphinx]

It is possible. You -can- do it. The process isn't linear: there's no formulaic answer. Keep learning, trust the process, and practice the non-technical parts of interviewing

[fringe sphinx]

But: have you had your resume reviewed?

[fringe sphinx]

Oh sorry, I meant that constructively: the process is subjective, so you have to accept that people can't give you a roadmap. But I firmly believe: competent (knowledgeable in a few topics), well balanced developers can find a job in today's market.

[smoky quest]

different roles also require different strengths and weaknesses

[smoky quest]

Can you send your resume here for review?

[vapid jay]

hold on.

this was my resume before I started studying and trying to make projects.

[pine sleet]

2 column format = bad

1 column format = good

also is this supposed to be for a tech job? there's a lot of stuff on there that isn't really related to engineering/tech

[vapid jay]

My mother / aunts would not get off my ass unless I put it there.

Its like I explain to them what you JUST explained to me and they just keep repeating how all experience is relevant.

[pine sleet]

well you're not obligated to listen to them

[vapid jay]

It's less of an obligation and more of , I wasn't getting any hits anyway and I was just too exhausted to bother fighting back anymore.

[white relic]

meh.

[pine sleet]

alright well, i'd recommend cut out the fluff that isn't relavent. move your education up - a bachelor's in CS is good, you want that up top

[fleet reef]

What if I don't use GitHub?

[pine sleet]

also remove soft skills, other classes, hobbies, and maybe classes & orgs as well

[vapid jay]

Found the version with the format.

It still has the soft skills listed on it, but less clutter.

[pine sleet]

this is hard to read. can you post a black on white image

[tardy pasture]

Even tho some companys ask you what are your hobbies

[pine sleet]

that's usually just small talk during the interview. don't put it on your resume

though if you can connect with the recruiter on a hobby that could be advantageous

[vapid jay]

Well there goes my dark-mode book printing business idea, lol. . .

[tardy pasture]

Damn then I have to edit mine lol

[pine sleet]

tbh experience is typically professional work experience directly related to the field, not sure if what you put on there would qualify

[leaden jasper]

Are you looking for feedback on this?

[vapid jay]

I know its trash.

But ppl here kept asking for my resume. So, there it was.

[leaden jasper]

... okay, but are you looking for feedback specifically or posting it for context?

[pine sleet]

also the content for your projects just seems kind of vague. you mostly just state what tools you used. can you write about their impact?

[leaden jasper]

(if you want to share the pdf file itself in the future and don't want to dox yourself, be sure to change the filename before sharing it)

[vapid jay]

for context, kept asking what I should learn after MySQL and Networking so I can build a good project. Kept getting vague answers, so they asked for my resume. I dropped it, and I was trying to illustrate WHY I am going after these tools specifically.

[leaden jasper]

ah okay cool, might want to re-iterate that you're not necessarily looking for feedback then

[vapid jay]

yeah, but it doesn't have any of those projects. It involved emotions and burning out, but the point is that it mostly has things from university.

ughhh. . .That's not good. . . .

My github uses my college email that has been deleted, and it says my password is wrong. . . .

[tardy pasture]

But why tho? Do companys actually have time to pass through your repo(Question)?

[vapid jay]

ugh, no good. . .Can't find the repo. . .It's fine. . . .It was just the Sierpenski Triangle and planets sphere moving in OpenGL anyway.

that and DFS/ BFS, but I was rejected for those in the past too.

[tardy pasture]

I c

[vapid jay]

ughhh eff it, why not?

[tardy pasture]

Bro said it like it's 1+1

[smoky quest]

People who do 200 leetcodes are the ones who don't know DSA.
If you know DSA, you can be fine with just a few to get the vibe of it

[smoky quest]

Your resume explains itself why you are having issues finding a job.
It's your one page ad to convince someone to call you back for an interview. And it has be effective as decisions are made within 30-45s.

With the version dropped above, that would be an instant reject from me. I would strongly encourage you to follow through the advice given to improve it

datastructure and algorithm

[zealous topaz]

gotta admit. I thought with 1 year experience as junior dev, I got used to what I do in current company. Nope. I mean, I can do the work senior engineers throw at me (mostly), but still fails to understand bigger scope of the project and unable to explain why we are doing this...

[smoky quest]

indeed, you can take a donkey to the water, but you cannot force it to drink

yep and totally understandable.
Especially if you are used to the schooling system where you used to be graded and passing tests. Your whole years were set on pre-made tracks where you know which goal to reach and they are all well identified. You know you need to graduate from HS, you know you need a BSc, etc. And passing a test was good enough.
But once you get out of it, it's suddenly so open ended. There are no clear goal posts anymore.

[obsidian ore]

You ever have those moments though when you look at some internal codebases and think nah, there are clearly no requirements for this company. 😂

[vapid jay]

Nop.

[burnt zephyr]

hi guys, I failed my data analyst certification, everything was sufficient, except in data validation. apparently the "years as customers" column had values that surpassed the time of the company... Do you guys have an Acronym to always catch those details?? a step by step reminder or something?

[peak halo]

what certification is this?

[burnt zephyr]

data analyst professional from DataCamp.... though nowis just data analyst, they changed the name 3 weeks ago

[wispy epoch]

Out of curiosity (and to some extent, necessity), what should I learn if I want to try to move towards a data analysis and/or visualization career after I finish my bachelor's? Whether it be python libraries or other programs. Right now i have a decent bit of experience with numpy, pandas, matplotlib, and plan on learning like tableau and powerbi

[nova folio]

a bit of excel might be good i think

[wispy epoch]

Oh right, need to do that too

[nova folio]

im new myself i just saw from a vid

[wispy epoch]

Ironically got really into python because i didn't understand excel but knew enough python to make it work in python lmfao

[nova folio]

can i ask what are you doing bachelors in?

[wispy epoch]

Physics

[harsh river]

life simulation

[nova folio]

oh, so you're learning programming all online?

[wispy epoch]

Yeh. Well, for the most part. My uni has two science-centric programming classes as requirements, but 90% of my knowledge is from reading documentation and asking a ton of questions

[nova folio]

im also learning all online

i'm doing bachelors in business🥲

[wispy epoch]

Fair enough lol. What helped for me was finding specific projects to work on. Gave me an actual end goal to work towards instead of trying to figure out where to start in the ocean of libraries and modules

[nova folio]

oh nice for me its only been a month and im doing basic python course rn

will work on libraries later

[visual geyser]

Helloooo

[brazen sky]

hi

[earnest spade]

why do you guys think there's a lack of womens in industry?

[gritty rivet]

Because we tell young girls STEM is not for them: https://archive.is/9MVC8

[leaden jasper]

Some workplace culture is so toxic and sexist that it does not retain the women who do stay in STEM

[earnest spade]

or it's already reached a local optima, and now it's simply too scary for women to go into a male dominated field

I remember a girl at a conference telling me it always take a lot out of her to come to these events despite her sometimes being the only girl in them

[hearty island]

huh

[earnest spade]

local optima sorry, not global

[leaden jasper]

it took a lot out of her because she was the only girl at the conference? or are you implying that she should not be tired by these events because she is the only girl? Your sentence doesn't make a lot of sense

[earnest spade]

the former. being the only girl in a room of 10 males is not comfortable, I know I wouldn't be comfortable as the only guy in a room of 10 girls

[true harness]

the word "despite" does not do what you want there

[leaden jasper]

Well, I would be careful to ascribe the experiences of a single person to the larger group

[earnest spade]

it's a theory and a plausible one logically I think

[leaden jasper]

For me personally, I am only exhausted by being in a room with people of the not-same gender if there's a toxic or sexist environment. In fact, it has more to do with if there's a toxic/sexist environment or not rather than the gender makeup.

There is research and history that in STEM fields a room that is entirely men with only a few women will tend to be a more sexist/toxic environment. But that's far from guaranteed and overall that experience isn't as common as it used to be.

I would be very hesitant to say "women just won't want to go into STEM because they're intimiated by being in a room or field full of men" without saying anything beyond that and going deeper into the situations and the nuance

[earnest spade]

there's definitely gonna be males that will be cool to work with, but me personally when I'm around only girls unless they're my siblings I'll feel fairly out of place, it'd be very weird. Having one male in the group helps. Having it be 50 50 makes it fun and comfortable for everyone

[leaden jasper]

Like I said, I'd be careful to ascribe your personal experience to the larger group. It's probably worth it for you to read into the research done on this

[earnest spade]

ion know my theory sounds very plausible tbh

[digital fjord]

some real greek philosopher science going on here

[true harness]

you have a hypothesis, not a theory

[earnest spade]

the local optima theory, don't know if anyone else came up with it

[leaden jasper]

You should read on the research rather than making wild speculation and saying it's plausible.

[earnest spade]

I'm just theoryizing

[balmy spade]

And we're suggesting you are doing so without proper information and without removing your own personal bias.

[earnest spade]

literature review is tedious and unfun 😭

[balmy spade]

Being informed takes effort, yes.

[leaden jasper]

It is much more fun to wildly speculate without any solid basis, sure. But this also isn't the channel for it.

[earnest spade]

did archimedes do literature review before writing down his theories? prolly not

[digital fjord]

Do also keep in mind that most of what ancient greeks figured out is incorrect, since debating and thinking really hard about things is a pretty bad way to figure things out.

[earnest spade]

eucid is still goated to this day he almost figured out calculus just by thinking very hard

[leaden jasper]

This is me talking as a moderator now, if you'd like to continue this discussion then I do expect you engage in good faith and listen to some of the suggestions here. If you continue to just wildly speculate about the causes of women not being as represented in STEM as men, then you will be muted.

Especially with this channel we have higher standards for discussion because of the impact career advice and discussion on careers can have.

[earnest spade]

shit I didn't even realize your mod my fault

[jaunty silo]

how much does an average

python devloper will be paid

does it really take a year to learn python, I am aiming to learn it within a month

[leaden jasper]

Depends on a lot of factors like location, experience, industry, specific company and more

[peak halo]

last I heard, the average python developer makes 114k. but you should take into account why that is: pretty much all ML engineers are "python developers", and they're among the highest-paid software developers. And that figure includes all python developers, for every year of experience and every occupation.

[balmy spade]

It takes time. Far longer than a month to be proficient. The basics don't take that long. Learning how to use them, problem solve, and apply that to code takes plenty of practice and effort.

[peak halo]

so, take this into account, and check Glassdoor.

[indigo ocean]

is anyone availabile to help me with a little homework, im a lil stuck i made a post but no1 is respdonign

[peak halo]

Hello, take a look at the instructions in #❓｜how-to-get-help. Be sure to always ask a complete question that someone can immeidately start answering--don't ask to ask.

[indigo ocean]

already made a post

[peak halo]

Then you shouldn't be asking about it here--this is the career discussion channel.

[jaunty silo]

all these new era of companies need to get ai in order i guess

man i feel late to the game, i am coming here to code at 16 years of age, I wish I Knew this sooner

[deft herald]

To add to this, you probably won't earn that much by simply just knowing python. Most people who have a job involving programming in python have a valuable skillset uses python as a tool.

A parallel to this would be something like Photoshop. Yeah you could learn how to use photoshop, but being a great photographer requires so much more

[balmy spade]

The good news is that in the act of learning how to program, you will learn other skills.

[deft herald]

learning to code at 16 is nowhere near being "late to the game" 🙂 You're way ahead of the game, IMO

[jaunty silo]

ah, now i understand

[balmy spade]

You aren't late. You're right on time for your story and your life. Dig in. Learn some stuff. Build things. You don't even know what you don't know yet so no use worrying about it!

[jaunty silo]

i heard all these big techies like bill gates, mark ,elon got in at 8- 10 years

[deft herald]

If you want to be a software dev, the "path of least resistance" as often discussed here is to go get a degree in CS or something similar

[deft herald]

They're by far the exception.

[vapid jay]

Where's this data from?
In the us, I see what makes news, but I strongly doubt that's the average, usually it's all about sponsors

Here you're lucky if you can get 1200€ monthly
It's not down to you knowledge, but down to whatever union group you may be categorized upon.
Always if you're not a free intern workforce
Yet what makes news, are improbable salaries

[deft herald]

sponsors? union groups? what are you talking about?

[jaunty silo]

I just want to make sure I do something as exceptional as them, I either want to go on the route of learning all of these from scratch or probably just hiring devs for this

[deft herald]

I mean it's a really broad statistic that's hard to calculate

[peak halo]

I heard it on a podcast. but more important than the precision of the statistic is that one takes all the variables determining developer compensation into account.

[vapid jay]

Where's this from?
If that's really the case, I'll have a travel to the us /s

[digital fjord]

100k a year for python devs in the US is to my knowledge not really extraordinary.

[true harness]

the median software developer salary in the US is around 120k

[jaunty silo]

will I be exceptional by 18?

[deft herald]

glassdoor

[smoky quest]

that would be super cheap in tech

[peak halo]

that's like, starting for entry level ML positions at my company

[balmy spade]

That's up to you to decide.

[vapid jay]

Hell, I guess different markets... Likely the cost of living is higher too.
With a mere 1200 as a monthly salary, I'll be homeless as soon I land foot in the us
I guess

[peak halo]

there might be parts of the country where that's livable, but those parts aren't desirable.

[deft herald]

Even within the US it varies soooo much though

[jaunty silo]

how much time will it generally take a good learner to know proeficient about python + ml?

[digital fjord]

Here the norm is closer to 40k a year, yeah.

[peak halo]

at least four years, because you can't get a job in ML without a degree.

[deft herald]

you could make 150k in kansas city and be living the dream, but make that in california and you're sharing a 2bd apartment with a roomate and barely scraping by

[smoky quest]

you would live very well with 150k in california, including the bay area

[deft herald]

Yeah, again python is just a tool. "how long will it take me to learn how to use a ruler + be an expert at calculus?"

[smoky quest]

still higher col than kansas

[jaunty silo]

6 years then basically i need to go to uni

[vapid jay]

Then even if you live in a cheap area, you may not be able to get the higher job position, due to being distant, so jobs are geolocked even within the us.

I wonder if Glassdoor has a filter on location

[peak halo]

yes. but make sure you take as many ML-related courses as you can. And brace yourself for possibly needing a masters.

[smoky quest]

there are tons of remote jobs in the US

[jaunty silo]

is there a way to like group with python developers like probably a vc, to code together?

[deft herald]

wat

[peak halo]

we don't really facilitate that in this server.

[deft herald]

literally $1M higer median home price

[vapid jay]

I'd like to say that's not the case, but I do often get discarded because I do not have an useful degree, in my experience to say at least.

[smoky quest]

what about it?

[deft herald]

Just trying to prove my point about highly different COL within the US

[vapid jay]

Or at least that's what some recruiters said

[smoky quest]

yes homes are more expensive in SF and yes it takes more time to buy a home in SF.
But that does not imply that people are sharing a 2bd apartment with a roomate and barely scraping by on a 150k salary. That would be quite uninformed

[deft herald]

🤷‍♂️ just trying to convey a point man. Forgive my inprecise numbers

[jaunty silo]

One mor thing I was wondering, can i just show my python projects to get hired or do i need a degree compulsary

[vapid jay]

Are they real or just ghost jobs? I think that's pretty difficult to get "real" dara out of it.

In my case it wouldn't work because I have no right to work in the us. In the eu it's sorta the same thing, even if you can travel freely, business who look out of the state, want you in location due taxes and other no sense.
Also they can get more out of you if you're insite

[smoky quest]

let's not fall at the level of SNL caricatures.
If you lived in the bay area, that would be the equivalent of assuming ALL americans wear cowboy hats and end their sentences in yeehaaw

[smoky quest]

they are real.
Ghost jobs are a meme

[deft herald]

Just saying that if you purchase an equivalent home in both Kansas City and SF Bay area, you will need significantly different salaries to afford such in both areas

that's it. No caricaturing going on here

[obtuse thorn]

hecc yeah you can

[deft herald]

🤷‍♂️ i give up. X amount of dollars in US is the same value everywhere

[wary drum]

a = input("give a")
print(a)

[vapid jay]

Here it's plenty of it.
You got work agencies who are always looking for people, so they can get your data, and make "contracts" on call, in other words you work only if you're called and have no Rights. It's basically a scam.

Big corpos, usually source workes by using third party smaller companies, so they have no liabilities, and have it for cheaper.

Smaller companies often are jacuzzi

[obtuse thorn]

I disagree tbh.

If I lived in cali still, I would probably still have to live with my parents. Even a 1 bedroom studio where I come would cost more than $2k per month, probably closer to $2.5.

Combine that with other expenses and there is no way (I feel targeted by this convo since I moved from cali to kansas for exactly this reason, haha)
Tbh I dont have kids so I would live ok, but makine $150k household income with a kid would be borderline unlivable in CA imo

[vapid jay]

@smoky quest

[smoky quest]

if you are in tech, your experience would be very different

[smoky quest]

I can guarantee you that all the entry level engineers making less than 150k/per year are doing very well actually living there 🙂

[obtuse thorn]

I admit, there are places in cali where you can live for cheaper, but not anywhere within a 1 hour commute of the SF bay area. My house would be worth closer to $2 million in cali if it was the same distance to SF as I am to kansas city, same year, size, land, etc.

[earnest spade]

LMFAO?!

[vapid jay]

I'm in tech
Italy is a shithole
The european mexico

Some say that out of the state it's better, but I dunno.. as they say the neighbor's grass is always greener

[smoky quest]

Similarly for all people with median salary of 104k$/year in SF

[obtuse thorn]

I know many, none of them can afford a house there.

Well, I do know someone who has a house after saving for like 5 years and getting a generous gift from their parents

[earnest spade]

there's no fucking way 100k a year is not extrarodinary, that's literally rich

[smoky quest]

living well does not necessarily imply owning a house, especially in housing markets as tight as SF or the bay area

I too, would love my own house in downtown new york or hong kong or paris

[obtuse thorn]

I am certainly biased here since this example is literally me, haha.

But yeah, my lifestyle would be massivley different if I lived in cali and only made $100k

[earnest spade]

holy fucking shit bro

[balmy spade]

Except with a little research you discover the range is not extraordinary at all in the states.

[obtuse thorn]

I agree, though in cali I would be hard pressed to find an apartment in the bad parts of san jose, or even concord for the price I pay for a much larger house here.

Though I definitely agree that you can live well in cali for $150k, the difference is just huge. imo

[deft herald]

Of course standard of living will mean different things to different people. An entry level engineer fresh out of college will have a much different set of needs than someone 15 years older with a family with young kids.

I've been both of those things

[earnest spade]

BRO MAKING 100K A YEAR IS LIKE A LIFE DREAM FOR ME TF?

[deft herald]

Where do you live?

[obtuse thorn]

I intentionally moved away from cali for this reason though. I was sharing a 3 bedroom apartment with 4 other people and paying about $1k in monthly rent and I just couldnt do it anymore.

[earnest spade]

let's say somewhere in the middle east

[plush summit]

Only annoying americans

[deft herald]

Yeah 🙂 way different

[vapid jay]

1k rent? I get to live in a van then

[obtuse thorn]

With that said, I havent met anyone who actually made $150k at a mid-senior level at any company I worked for. Uber doesnt even pay most engineers that in the SF area

[earnest spade]

to be fair 1k per month isn't bad bro

that's actually really good bro

[obtuse thorn]

It wasnt bad, but that meant sharing 700 square feet with 4 other dudes

[earnest spade]

I don't know maybe I'm projecting my student mindset rn but I'm accustomed to minimum living space like this

[obtuse thorn]

I acknowledge I am quite privileged for that to be my biggest concern though haha

Yeah, in SJ this was a good deal.

I did know people paying nearly $3k for a studio while attending school.

[earnest spade]

still, if you're making 100k a year and still somehow find it hard to pay 3k a month I don't know what to say brah

100k is like lowkey really rich, the day I manage to get a 100k job is GOOD FUCKING DAY

[obtuse thorn]

I just saw kansas and cali and entered this convo haha

But I do not think it is fair to say someone would live very well in cali on $150k. I would have to downsize massively at that pay in cali, or live paycheck to paycheck in one of the pretty rough areas to try to maintain my current standard of living

[obtuse thorn]

This is interesting. If someone makes $100k and is paying $3k per month on living, I would consider this incredibly bad.

[deft herald]

I mean the arbitrary number of 150 doesn't matter

[obtuse thorn]

I pay about $3k per month on my various living expenses and that puts me behind on savings goals and puts my retirement savings at risk and I make more than that, haha

[earnest spade]

HOW BRO, your total cost for surviving is 36k + let's say another 14k for other shit like food and transport. THAT LEAVES 50K FOR WHATEVER FUN SHIT YOU WANT

[hardy depot]

The cost of things in different areas differs greatly. Additionally it's very easy to have massively accrued debts that can make the income very different than an individuals profit margin.

[leaden jasper]

It depends a lot on the person's situation. Are they living on their own? Do they have to support a family? What other obligations do they have?

100k a year is about ~$73k takehome. That results in $6k per month. Spending half on just rent or a mortgage is pushing the limit of what is recommended.

[obtuse thorn]

And I dont even have a family or anything to care for.

I say this with upmost privilege though, I could downsize and my finances are safe.

[vapid jay]

I'm starting to have the bad idea into faking my residency to the us /s
Which btw I wonder why ue bank don't accept us citizens as clients, is that the case even for us banks?

[balmy spade]

This is more research needed. 100k salary is not 100k take-home pay. Throw an average tax bracket of 10% at it. Include insurance premiums, retirement savings, and extra state-side taxes and you're already down 40-60% when looking at take-home. ;)

[earnest spade]

oh yah forgot about that american shit

[hardy depot]

Additionally, there's healthcare to consider. Sometimes you're bound to areas where there are doctors that specialize in your health care needs, and that really changes how flexible you are with your expenses

[deft herald]

Tax for 100k is more like 25%

Replied to wrong message sorry

[earnest spade]

I don't know what to say brah I always thought of 100k as doing VERY good for yourself so this is quite new to me

[balmy spade]

If you are at a 25% tax bracket.... get an advisor, you're doing things incorrectly. ;)

[earnest spade]

like holy shit my dad makes like half that money and my family is very well supported

[obtuse thorn]

Haha, I will definitely relinquish that this conversation is a bit niche to american expectations, safe finances, etc.

And that $150k salary in cali is certainly good and someone can live comfortably on it.

But $150k in the middle of nowhere is so different

[leaden jasper]

It is important to look at the total compensation package and cost of living when looking at potential salaries in general. I had a friend who did take a job at one of the big bay area companies and drastically increased their salary. Their actual day-to-day life though? Practically unchanged because the cost of living increases kept up with the salary increase. In the end it wasn't the huge salary increase that it looked like on paper.

[deft herald]

Single filing and add state tax, I think 25 is fairly accurate

[obtuse thorn]

Yeah, I apologize if I have given the wrong idea. $100k can of course still mean living quite comfortably and supporting a family.

I was just responding to the cali/kansas comparison since I really think $150k in cali versus kansas are incredibly different lifestyles

[tidal gazelle]

This might be a dumb question but would anyone be able to predict, in general in the future is software engineering/computer science more in demand than mechanical engineering

[balmy spade]

I still say talk with a tax advisor. My salary is significantly higher than 100k. Though I file joint, my bracket was ~9% this year. There are simple things to knock that percentage way down.

[obtuse thorn]

I will once again recall the time I stopped by the safeway near google's campus to do some very quick shopping and their milk was more than $10 per gallon.

[earnest spade]

you know YOU MADE IT when you're paying 10 pounds per gallon for milk

[leaden jasper]

Those fields in general are kind of hard to compare apples-to-apples. Both are in demand, but those are very broad fields. Both software engineering and mechanical engineering have a lot of subfields/subindustries that change what the demand and overall salary looks like.

Why are you curious about the comparison between the two?

[earnest spade]

man ion even give a shit about money bro, i'm accustomed to the minimal life

this 100k being lowkey bad got me fucked up makes me think chasing money ain't such a good idea

[balmy spade]

Chasing money isn't usually a good idea. Put food on a table and a roof over your head. What happens next is up to you.

[tidal gazelle]

I’m trying to decide what to do

[hardy depot]

I think you misjudge what Fisher was saying. $10 for milk was not a throw away expense. There was no getting around the outrageous cost. That's how it is for Every cost. And that's why what looks like a high salary disappears quickly in some areas

[earnest spade]

yesssirrr

[leaden jasper]

In terms of degree at university? or something else?

[earnest spade]

no I 100% got what he meant lmao, that's exactly what I meant by you know YOU MADE IT

[tidal gazelle]

Well demand mostly

[earnest spade]

like Jay Z said "and since we made it here, we can make it anywhere"

[leaden jasper]

I'm moreso asking what's prompting the question

[tidal gazelle]

Never mind then thanks
Also would anyone know whether software engineering is part of SOL (skilled occupancy) right. Is?

[balmy spade]

I don't see general demand for either field dimensioning in the near future. Changing, yes. But change always happens. The skills you learn with a degree will be applicable throughout any change.

[ivory cave]

can somebody suggest resources to learn mysql

[fleet reef]

#databases

[leaden jasper]

I mainly ask because mechanical engineering and software engineering are a bit different, especially in terms of how you approach getting employed. Mechanical engineering in 99% of cases requires an engineering degree. With software engineering is still very recommended to get a degree but it's not as much of a hard requirement as it is in mechE.

If you're trying to decide which degree to pursue for most employability, I'd say it's the wrong metric to look at. It also doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other. My job right now is very MechE focused but I also code a lot for it. So it's a bit of both.

[obtuse thorn]

please teach me how, I want 9%

[near ocean]

Defraud the government

[balmy spade]

Get a tax advisor. Or, if you don't have one, talk with a personal finance advisor. Most of my reductions come from just putting the money into retirement plans pre-tax. But everyone's situation is different. Talk with a licensed advisor.

[true harness]

my effective tax rate this year was 0% 😌

[deft herald]

Alright just for gits and shiggles, here's my data from 2022:
AGI: 209,XXX
Deductions: 42,XXX
taxable income: 167,XXX
Tax: 28,XXX
credits: 8,246
total tax burden: 22,XXX
% of AGI i paid: 10.6%

my "25%" estimate on 100k is i guessed based on nothing special. Standard deductions, no credits, single filing, etc

[balmy spade]

Yup. The base tax brackets are rough.

[deft herald]

Turns out having 4 kids (5 this year) greatly reduces your tax burden

Though not recommended as a long term investment plan

[sly goblet]

hey can anyone advice some python carer paths? i need that as a begginer

[balmy spade]

Reminds me of my days working at Family Dollar. We had onesies for newborns that said "Daddy's little tax deduction". Just... wrong and accurate at the same time.

[ivory sluice]

i'm interested in tax saving strategies, can we continue in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval or whichever is free.
#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[deft herald]

Actually it's very inaccurate. It should read "Daddy's little tax credit"

[balmy spade]

Congrats, again, btw ;)

[balmy spade]

true

[vapid jay]

Hey, its a good immortality project.

Percluding a cataclysmic event that wipes out a lot of bloodlines including yours, of course. . . .

[deft herald]

you know it 😄

[sly goblet]

no one is helping whats going on ?

[vapid jay]

But such an event would neeever happen in our lifetimes, riiiiight? ^^;

[deft herald]

Sorry - your question is pretty broad so it didn't get a lot of attention

[deft herald]

What's your situation? education level? etc. We need more info

[vapid jay]

Metlz , or anyone who has experience with backend. Is there a python library or framework that helps produce dynamic pages in html / css?

As I do NOT have time to learn php.

[whole flare]

Jinja

[balmy spade]

It's a question for #python-discussion or #web-development . Jinja2 is a template framework.

[vapid jay]

Python discussion is a little wild r/n and i didn't even kno there was a web development.

[sly goblet]

15 yo

[deft herald]

We kind of just had this discussion. You can start reading here: #career-advice message

[tidal gazelle]

So I have two questions:
Would anyone know whether, instead of going to another country for university and getting a passport there, is it just as good (in terms of getting a passport) to do the skilled occupancy program?
And also, is it true that most software engineering/computer science jobs require you to sit all day in an office typing?

[true harness]

software engineering is a lot of typing, but if you're in office, you will have meetings to walk to, chances to walk around, etc

[gritty rivet]

My anecdotal impression, mainly from the US but a bit from talking to people in the UK....

It's a lot easier to get a student visa than it is to get a working visa.

If you come here as a student, it's slightly easier to develop a relationship where you might ultimately get sponsored to stay on a work visa

[near ocean]

Its an office job so yes to the office part
Whether you sit for 8h straight is on you, ideally you should get up every half hour and walk around

[buoyant seal]

Starting from Middle dev rank of proficiency it is common though in liberal enough companies working from home ^_^
So offices aren't obligatory
Some support only hybrid way though
Some are office only. It depends

[tidal gazelle]

would you know about the skilled occupancy programes?

And the context is basically I want to get a passport to another country, and one of the options (and what I wanted) is australia, but to get an australian passport I need to stay there for about 8 years which i don't want to do

[near ocean]

Why do you want a passport for another country if you dont plan to stay there mid to long term

You dont need a passport (in the country youre applying to) to get a work visa

[tidal gazelle]

i want another passport mainly because:
might give me more salary
can travel to other countries
if i lose my job, i can go there

[near ocean]

salaries arent determined by your citizenship but by where you live
you already have a passport supposedly, unless you want a stronger one
you dont need a passport to stay in the country, depending on the country

i dont have a UK passport but they cant kick me out anymore
they missed their chance

[tidal gazelle]

oh okay well

you already have a passport supposedly, unless you want a stronger one
I have a pretty weak one yes

and i thought a strong passport meant more pay? But anyways it was more for reasons 2 and 3 i gave

and point 3 was what my parents told me, they said i need a passport and said that
so i don't know entirely whether its true

[smoky quest]

a passport implies citizenship. You need a visa, not citizenship, to work in a country

[near ocean]

you dont need a passport to stay in a australia, in fact, one of the requirements for citizenship is being a permanent resident

[smoky quest]

short of marrying someone, you won't get a passport right away

[tidal gazelle]

i don't want to stay in australia

I live in the UAE and I want to stay here (get a job and work here). I can't get a passport here, so I need to find another country to get a passport

sorry if im not clarifying properly

[near ocean]

youre not getting a passport this way
a big requirement in many citizenship application processes is you staying in the country for x number of years

[tidal gazelle]

Yeah but there’s also like SOL

And now I’m going to sleep
Hopefully we can continue later
Thank you

[near ocean]

depending on how rich you are you could fly to cyprus, dump €3mil into real estate and they'll just hand you an EU passport apparently
(dont tell them i sent you)

[smoky quest]

I think there is a misunderstanding about what passports are and how they work

[gritty rivet]

salaries arent determined by your citizenship

You would think, but labor markets in the Gulf are a different world.
https://www.fishbowlapp.com/post/is-it-real-that-uae-has-salary-bands-based-on-passport-is-this-true-in-tech-startups-as-well-like-a-company-told-me-theyd-pay

[near ocean]

Well, adding that to the list of reasons for never moving to the UAE

[vapid jay]

Remember when I asked you what I should learn next yesterday and you replied with this?

I'm thinking of either learning PHP along with MySQL so I can make Dynamic Pages or just using Flask and other Python Frameworks along with HTMX, and MySQL I'm not sure which of these sets to pick.

[smoky quest]

tbh, I think you would have a higher ROI by redoing your resume

[vapid jay]

To make a resume, don't I need to put projects on it?

Projects that I am currently lacking?

[smoky quest]

I thought you had projects already?
Also any interesting school projects you could add?

[vapid jay]

I already went over this, those were crap and got erased so I can't upload them onto git.

and my school projects were also not very impressive, they showed code but I ran with those in the past for internships and got 0 internships and MANY rejections.

So lemme ask again: php and MySQL or Flask, Frameworks, HTMX + MySQL?

[smoky quest]

languages and frameworks don't matter as much as what you plan to do with them

[vapid jay]

Sure, let m put that on my resume too. . .

[smoky quest]

yes?

[vapid jay]

I keep asking you guys for specific questions and all you ever do is give me platitudes and misdirection.

[near ocean]

What should I learn next?
is not a specific question

[smoky quest]

alright, you not only miss the points but also have a shitty attitude.
Good luck!

[vapid jay]

. . . . .

🍑 🕳️

[near ocean]

Ask a question about something specific if you want better answers.
And btw, this isnt a resource sharing channel, ask in offtopic if you have trouble picking between python and php

[vapid jay]

I gave two VERY specific choices, dude. . . Like are you trolling me? Is that what this is?

[fringe sphinx]

What's wrong with this? You want a roadmap. You want us to tell you what to do. You have many choices and options. You could specialize in something you're interested in (depth) or learn something new (breadth). That's a concrete and complete answer.

[near ocean]

php and MySQL or Flask, Frameworks, HTMX + MySQL
is not a specific question
What for? What do you want to build? Where do you live, whats the market like?
You give out arbitrary choices you get back generic answers

[fringe sphinx]

You -don't- need the projects on git to put them in your resume.

[vapid jay]

. . . smh. . . . What the heck was I thinking? Trying to get help from people on Discord.

Like how many times do I have to get burned on this platform before I learn my lesson. . . ?

[near ocean]

this is offtopic, you can be edgy in !ot

[fringe sphinx]

This seems like a -you- problem at this point. We're earnestly trying to help, but you haven't asked an actual concrete question that'll elicit the answer you're looking for.

[vapid jay]

Dude, I gave two VERY specific sets of technologies and asked which I should use.

[near ocean]

refer to #career-advice message

[fringe sphinx]

Either is fine. You could also learn a Mern stack. All of which are equally useful.

Most SWE problems are like this, many perfectly good solutions where there's pros and cons to each.

It's like asking which database to learn. There's no right answer: you can narrow it down by talking about use cases (like Old Man Mar suggested), but in the abstract? They all have their use.

[near ocean]

thats worse than actually asking questions here and talking about pros and cons of doing/learning something

there is no feedback with some random roadmap, here there is feedback

[buoyant seal]

In python server people are of course opinionated
But between PHP and Python, python looks like having better modern web dev support, and usable also for DevOps engineering and some other job roles.
In its turn PHP does not look like to me attractive to learn at all ever at this point. And its level of things for which it is usable looks ridiculous

[near ocean]

roadmaps are super generic, isnt that what they explicitly said they dont want?

[pale stream]

hi i was wondering if learned coding would there would be a test or something to get a certificate which i can use for my job applications?

[near ocean]

there are many certificates, the only one that matters is the degree

[digital fjord]

more or less no, you have to write your own projects, and ideally get a degree.

[buoyant seal]

Doing projects is nice even if having job.
In case ever leaving company u will need them again for next job hunting
Also they are useful for learning skills beyond job duties

[digital fjord]

There are certificates for various cloud providers, as well as certain more enterprise-adjecent systems, but nothing as general as "competent python developer"

[lucid granite]

could you check dms please

[pale stream]

i live in switzerland how would i get a degree? and what would a project be like why projects?

[buoyant seal]

Choose what u like, or rather what u don't hate ^_^
Enthusiasm matters and helps to survive debugging the most pain in the ass stuff.

[pale stream]

because i already have a apprentinceship as a electrical engineer and time is really only open to stuff after work which would be after 17:30 everyday

[near ocean]

you should already be doing some programming as an electrical engineer then

[digital fjord]

a project would be something like "A basic blogging website" or perhaps "An implementation of a general ID3 engine and its application to a variety of domains". Do you want to eventually want a software development job, or a more general EE job with perhaps more programming than is typical?

[pale stream]

yes i want something with programming in the future my course that im taking now is kinda a Plan B because Plan A didnt work

[karmic loom]

One of our voice regulars has completed a degree as an electrician and he works as a Python programmer doing flood dynamics modelling.

[digital fjord]

I would recommend experimenting a bit with arduino/arduino clones, get some LEDs lit up, maybe read a temperature sensor, use circuitpython/micropython. That should look pretty nice on any resume.

And do research what concrete jobs would be relevant to you and see what their requirements are.

[pale stream]

how does that work because my apprentinceship takes 6 years long after 4 years into it ill become a electrician and then 2 years after that if i take the extra courses ill be an electrical engineer, i can´t see how being a electrical engineer / electrician ties into something with programming or anything with computer science?

[digital fjord]

You can usually take programming electives in uni.

[pale stream]

see the thing is theres no uni here

ah yes i already did i few fiddling with the arduino i have leonardo myself, i would like to get the job called ´´Informatiker/-in EFZ Plattformentwicklung´´ which can only really be done if you have good grades, and mine are semi okay because i didnt take highschool seriously. which leaves me into taking the next thing closest to it which is electrician. how would i go about my future cuz im really confused how i should proceed

[smoky quest]

• I don't do DMs
• For help with python, see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[white relic]

You can switch to CS from any discipline, but it is a switch, whether you're an electrician or an electrical engineer. It's not really the same career path.

[white relic]

For that matter, electrical engineer and electrician are pretty different, too.

At least as those occupations are usually described here. Where in the world are you located?

[true harness]

what they're saying is that it doesn't matter what you pick. the skills you demonstrate by creating a project are not limited to the ability to use a framework. (but since we're in the python server, go with python 😉)

[near ocean]

if you want an arbitrary stack go with ruby (off the rails) moustache.js and uh... excel json as a db (?)

[true harness]

isn't ruby (on the wall) pretty much dead at this point 😩

[near ocean]

lots of places still use ruby rails, definitely not as many as in the past though
github does

stripe does, shopify, etc

https://stackshare.io/ruby

[vapid jay]

I think I need to talk to my parents about giving me another month.

The combination of burnout, uncertainty in the what to do, and the working for what my brain perceives as no payoff is getting me to be too emotional.

Anyway, I'll lean into php and SQL but I think I'll do some of these projects I found on substack.

[smoky quest]

not really. Ruby 3 got some nifty improvements and is a really nice language to work with

[vapid jay]

I changed my mind after reading this.

Thanks for the help, I should have walked away fromt he keyboard to cool off before I said that. I let my stress and emotion get to me and that was wrong of me , and I'm sorry. I'll control my impulses from now on and take a walk before I say something rude again.

@smoky quest Sorry about earlier, I took my depression out on you and that wasn't cool.

[vapid jay]

Sorry for dragging my problems in too deep. Won't happen again, really. My bad.

[fringe sphinx]

It's all good, I feel your frustration. Just trying to say that we're trying to be as concrete as we can, just appreciate that not everything has a concrete answer.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, I think I'm beginning to understand that.

[true harness]

another month for what

[vapid jay]

I kind of fast forwarded in my head, you know? Visualizing the future and what one does? I imagined asking that question while trying to meet a deadline in the workplace.

[vapid jay]

To find a job. If I can't find a job in a developer role by May or June, I might just have to become an Amazon driver.

I'm not comfortable answering that, flubber. All I can say is that I have my reasons.

[near ocean]

youre making it harder on yourself this way
it's much easier to jump to software dev from a software dev adjacent role

[true harness]

there is a wide gulf between software developer and amazon delivery driver. many such jobs are quite acceptable

[vapid jay]

Yes.

My therapist told me if its a good idea today, its a good idea tomorrow.

So I'm going to sleep on what you just told me and get back to you tomorrow on that matter.

😐

Thank you.

I have a few questions if you'll entertain that.

[ivory path]

is there an off topic chat or something im tryna send something but ion wanna get smited by admins

[vapid jay]

What does someone in IT even do? What is needed for a resume looking for an IT job? What's expected of me?

Wax On Wax Off?

[true harness]

yes, but there are other SWE adjacent roles that are also relatively easy to get into, and closer to the dev role. stuff like QA or automated QA

[near ocean]

manual qa is probably the easiest way to get into a dev role, followed by helpdesk roles

[white relic]

IT has to be the easiest field to get into. All you need is a little technical knowledge and a poor sense of boundaries and you'll be fixing people's problems for them even before you are hired.

Only kind of joking

[near ocean]

Qa requirements basically start at "can click the mouse button" and go up to building entire testing suites and automating it all

[vapid jay]

what the heck?

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[balmy spade]

<@&831776746206265384> could we have a cleanup?

[vapid jay]

had to erase that joke, won't look good now that the context is gone.

[marsh thistle]

TBH I don't even know what happened here.

[vapid jay]

Some guy dropped a poll, and it was weird.

[gritty rivet]

The most valuable thing to have on your resume other than experience is formal education

Otherwise, depending on the role, certs and/or projects can help a little or a lot

[pale stream]

im from switzerland

[burnt zephyr]

i was so close to saying goodbye to hell... i'm still close, just have to register the certification again, hope is the same dataset XD

I meant goodbye to walmart... this auto-corrector...

[tidal gazelle]

So currently I'm looking at software engineering for university. I've watched many videos and looked at comments, and I have seen quite a lot that say it has a toll on one's mental and physical health. And that sitting all day trying to solve problems can be "frustrating". Can anyone comment on this and help me decide what to do?

[buoyant seal]

Yeah it can be frustrating, but usually super difficult tasks frustrating i find rare to encounter
Usually in average i encounter just something that needs to be researched i think. It is a fine line between though, as it is a matter of perception, if u find them as a researching challenge or it went to frustration 🤔

A little bit restructiring my thoughts:
It is important for me that i believe into myself being able to solve IT related problems. So in 95%+ cases i just calmly research, or pondering through the problem until i find the best solution and code it through, covering with tests and once it passes i am confident that it will probably work and if not it will take smallest amount of time to make it working and maintain as working after that.

Yes, there is also needed persistance/deducation to keep going.

There is need in a right moment choosing right place where to search for clues next? Just googling, or reading official documentation (just google over SO will not get far), or even sometimes being not afraid git repository of code and searching for necessary clues in code. Or just asking people for advice when u understand that it is smth you can't easily obtain by previous methods.

So... trying to say it shortly:

• U need to believe into yourself being able to solve tech stuff
• having dedication to keep going
• having developed high level user intuition/debugging skills for solving tech problems (things like reinstalling Windows, or debugging wtf the installed game is not working after you installed it and where u can find answer to solving its error)

[buoyant seal]

And that sitting all day trying to solve problems can be "frustrating".
often enough solution can be just going to sleep and while you walk or lay in bad the answer can arrive
or you go for a walk outside and solution visits you as u go.

[buoyant seal]

physical health
:/ i suffer from this problem yeah, trying to change my lifestyle to compensate those problems.
Not very healthy to have almost zero physical activity if you work from home.
Forcing myself everyday to walk more outside.
Ideally could be nice having in a future table that allows working while standing
There are some other solutions to mitigate this problem... it is very.... standing issue for me that i try to solve :/
Some devs manage to have a lot of exercises in gym and etc, i for now haven't figured out the right way for me.

At the same time good salary... makes feeling good for those trade offs.
Sure physical health harming, but at least i will earn money enough to live comfortably through my life.
in third world countries there is literally very small wiggle room to earn anything even remotely that high as in IT.

[tidal gazelle]

how long do you sit down on average in a day?

[buoyant seal]

how long i am awake minus several hours.
or it can be just.. how long i am awake.

[tidal gazelle]

and thanks for the above two responses
I have one more question actually,
I read online that to become a software engineer you dont really need to hvae a BEng or go to college for that matter, but i'm planning on doing my masters in computer science/software engineering. Is this a waste of money, or will it help me?

[buoyant seal]

problem is.. if i am not working
I am also sitting to take care of pet projects or relax while doing smth else in PC.
So, it is always sitting ^_^ that's why bought an excellent chair to do it comfortably at least

[white relic]

Education is not a waste of money and to say you don't need it is missing the forest for the trees.

[buoyant seal]

I read online that to become a software engineer you dont really need to hvae a BEng or go to college for that matter, but i'm planning on doing my masters in computer science/software engineering. Is this a waste of money, or will it help me?
sounds like bullshit from online courses.
Best to have Bachelor degree at least for path of least resistance. 80%+ of devs do have higher education
it will be significantly harder to get first quality job without BE
and it will be significantly hard to compete with devs that had 4+ years of getting used to programming in Bachelor. A lot of recruiters will just filter non degree people by default.
It takes time to break your mind and mold it for programming. Programming is not the most natural thing for a brain, you need to get used to it a lot. Having 4 years of concentrated studies in Bachelor helps a lot towards it.

People without Bachelor are usually too weak in skills to compete with degree holders.1- 6 months is too little to just get used to programming, having enough practice to adjust your mind for being able to navigate in thousands code line bases and thinking at necessary level of abstractions for solving problems

[tidal gazelle]

Well I know that it benefits you. but what I meant was whether or not employers would give you extra consideration if you have that degree

[white relic]

I don't know about BEng though as that isn't a common degree to have. BS in CS or engineering is more typical

[white relic]

They do. Significantly. You can look up salary statistics for various levels of education

[buoyant seal]

but i'm planning on doing my masters in computer science/software engineering. Is this a waste of money, or will it help me?
TLDR: it will help you a lot ^_^ and make sure that u just need to put some above average effort to make successful career.
People without degree need a lot of luck, extraordinaire portfolio to make career, or often land into... dead end job roles that have zero room for growth.
With degree u can build yourself successful career with very high chance. (Well at least 25-50% graduates work by their specialty at my university/faculty, the number of people working succesfully after online courses is of course magnitudes times less. smth below 5%)

Ideally of course it would be best if u put some extra self studies effort to flare well during university.
University assumes understanding from student that he wishes to study and a lot of work on his own.
If u would learn during uni necessary skills for a chosen job role.. that could help you landing better job after graduation

universities can be often lacking to teach specific tech stacks stuff, getting used to best practices around them and ecosystem, universities are more concentrated on general skills / more fundemantal stuff
if u will help yourself with learning stuff u wish to work with in a future, u can increase likelyhood u will work in specific job role by 10+ times.

[tidal gazelle]

What's the difference? This is the course Im doing

[white relic]

Master of engineering is more common. Bachelor of engineering is rare.

From what I've seen ME programs are more likely to have a non thesis option than MS besides being more application oriented

[true harness]

the more frustrating the problem, the better it will feel when you solve it

[fringe sphinx]

My favorite problems (the ones that are both satisfying -and- I've learned the most from) are the ones I've spent a full week thinking (obsessing) about.

[white relic]

Regarding the comment about it being frustrating, yes and no. Most of the time, I don't find the technical problem solving portion of my job to be frustrating, even when the problems I'm working on take days to solve. What often is frustrating is the non-technical portion of my job that prevents me from working on those technical problems: meetings, unclear and incomplete specifications, needing stuff from coworkers who are too busy to reply, sorting my email, prioritizing GitHub issues, inadequate management, team leadership obligations, and just general bureaucratic inefficiency

What helps is to adjust your perspective so that you see the non-technical portions of your job are just as much what you've been hired to do as the technical parts. It's all different kinds of problem solving

[white relic]

(I should remark that I am not a software engineer)

[idle dirge]

i am taking a coding interview for a startup my friend referred me into today, but I have my plans set and do no expect to work with them. What is the most respectful thing to do here? Do I email or on call tell them I have other plans. Do I intentionally fail the interview. Do I take it normally and reject them if i do get an offer?

[gritty rivet]

If you really have 100% certainty that you're not interested then: "Thank you for your interest but I'm not open to opportunities at this time."

Otherwise I would take it seriously and learn more before deciding

Intentionally failing the interview is an absurd proposal, please never waste anyone's time like that

[idle dirge]

it is foolish to waste their time when they’ve been accommodating me so well with scheduling

[white relic]

have you already accepted an offer elsewhere? or just decided you don't want to work for this company?

if you've accepted another offer, it's a courtesy to let them know you won't be going forward

otherwise, I would also encourage you to keep an open mind and go to the interview ready to be persuaded.

[idle dirge]

i was offered to stay at my research lab over the summer so i guess it is accepting an offer elsewhere

do i just talk to them in the beginning of the call?

[white relic]

no, don't make them call you to find out you're not interested

just shoot a concise and professional email to whoever your contact(s) are

[idle dirge]

i see

[white relic]

"Hello <name>, I appreciate your consideration for this position, but I have decided to accept another opportunity. Thank you for your time"

maybe workshop it a bit

but that's all you're going to get from a company that rejects you so there's no need to go into depth

[vapid jay]

a = str(input('Назовите имя и фамилию персонажа, чтобы узнать его стенд: '))
if a == 'Джорно Джованна':
    print ('Gold Experience')
elif a == 'Дио Брандо':
    print ('The World') 
elif a == 'Джотаро Куджо':
    print ('Star Platinum') 
elif a == 'Бруно Бучеллатти':
    print ('Sticky Fingers') 
elif a == 'Мухаммед Абдулл':
    print ('Magicians Red')  
elif a == 'Джозеф Джостар':
    print ('Hermit Purple')  
elif a == 'Дьяволо':
    print ('King Crimson')  
elif a == 'Нориаки Какёин':
    print ('Herieofrant Green')   
elif a == 'Джоске Хигашиката':
    print ('Crazy Diamond')  
elif a == 'Игги':
    print ('Fool')        
else:
    print ('Извините, этого имени ещё нет в базе данных ×_×')

[near ocean]

#❓｜how-to-get-help #python-discussion

[fringe glade]

who can help me in the python help system room for my mini maze game in python turtle

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel, try #python-discussion

[hearty island]

is it a bad idea to try and message a recruiter or two back on handshake?

handshake as in join handshake

[fathom ember]

start c++

[fringe sphinx]

I don't use handshake much but it's normal to message

[vapid jay]

Slept on it, yeah I'm gonna apply for IT and QA jobs.

[vapid jay]

Awww yeaaaah~ JOJO , baby!

[vapid jay]

YES, I AM!

[white raven]

Rizzian code *fire emoji

[vapid jay]

You wanna say: "Russian"?

[white raven]

yea

[vapid jay]

Can you help me optimize my resume for that when you have time? I think even my project list can get me into that.

[lost cypress]

Holyyyy shit man I’ve been applying so much these past few months and I thought I had 0 chance of ever getting an interview at this point.

I want to make a simple but good impression in my response to this email, maybe I’m overthinking it.

But what should I say exactly, do they want multiple specific Day and Times??

[true harness]

yeah just give some bullet points like, "on monday, i'm available for ...". maybe with less words. also make sure to say thank you and such

[lost cypress]

Okay sounds good thank you!

I’m also so nervous lol this is gonna be my first tech related interview ever

[balmy spade]

Agreed. I'm available X day during X hours. Include the timezone. Add a "I'm flexible as needed" if you like. Just make sure you actually are ;)

I never really liked putting the open ended scheduling question on the applicant. I would have included some general slots, myself.

[vapid jay]

Will this look good on a QA / IT resume?

[lost cypress]

yes i agree i thought it was a bit strange but it is what it is

[true harness]

i assume they just have a week blocked off for interviews and plug all the availability into a program

[balmy spade]

Just roll with it. The person on the other side is likely just like you. Just trying to figure it all out and make it work. You might get a "Let's do it on this day" in your reply. You might get a "Are you able to do anything in this new range?"

Open ended scheduling questions, where I work, just put more stress on the situation so I always include three time slots that work for me and let the receiver pick or offer a new choice.

[fringe sphinx]

The content is good (yes, keep it), but you'll need to rephrase it a little. '... I programmed...' is not normal resume speak.

[balmy spade]

More than likely the case.

[true harness]

if you're looking for QA / IT positions, you need to demonstrate QA / IT skills. how did you verify your project worked? did you add tests?

[vapid jay]

we verified it worked by trying to use it ourselves.

across about 20 different email addresses if I'm not mistaken.

[true harness]

what about automated testing

[vapid jay]

Never used it, I'll google that and write a small program that uses automated testing later.

[true harness]

why not add to an existing project?

[lost cypress]

So basically i applied to the bottom position on April 3rd, then one for another location on April 10th which is the top one.

I'm able to see the the job description for the April 10th one. But i just received an invitation to interview for the one that I cannot see the job description of (Apr 3rd), I cannot think of any way to find the description.

Should I just assume that the descriptions are similar considering how similar the names are for those positions? Because I want to make sure I know exactly what im being interviewed for. It's impossible to remember the exact description since I've applied to so many companies.

Any thoughts?

[vapid jay]

So the project you see now is a part of my capstone project from when I graduated. I no longer have the code, nor the send-grid API key.

and my other projects were on a computer that is . . . .Not recoverable.

[smoky quest]

You cannot assume they are the same.
Most likely is that they got too many candidates and just closed the req so that no more candidates come in. But these internships could be for different teams

[lost cypress]

Good point. So what do students who have to mass applied to internships even do to make sure they are correctly prepared? Just basically make sure they are perfectly brushed up with everything on the resume? I just don't want to walk into the interview looking dumb because I don't know what the exact position is.

I think it's fair to assume that college students aren't always taking a picture of each job description they apply to you know?

[smoky quest]

check your emails as you may have gotten a confirmation with the description of the internship included.

And in general, yes, you should track where you apply so as to not look completely disorganized and just mass applying without a care for the role.

So right now, you could reply to them asking if there is any update to the position and how you want to make sure you are prepared for it

[smoky quest]

I think it's fair to assume that college students aren't always taking a picture of each job description they apply to you know?

Just to be explicit: no, that is not fair.
Each internship receives thousands of applications per week. You bet I am going to give it to the most motivated and competent candidate. While yourself, may not care about it, there are plenty of people who would be ecstatic about that specific opportunity because of the role/team/company/area/other

[lost cypress]

Good point, I do have a notes sheet on my laptop where I write down each position i've applied to and whether or not I have reached out to any recruiters about the position. Rather than just only having my email is my source of positions i've applied to.

[lost cypress]

I just overlooked the importance keeping some form of documentation about what each position's description looks like. Assuming I'd be able to view the job link as needed, forgetting that they end up disapearring when the position gets closed

[smoky quest]

yep, it's also an easy way to stand out from the rest

[true harness]

I just copy the tech stack into a notion table. next year I might do the entire description also

[hearty island]

there is fr no way to filter entry-level jobs on linkedin is there? the entry-level filter is broken

[lost cypress]

I hope you are doing great as well. I am available on the following dates and times.

Tuesday (Apr 16th) or Wednesday (Apr 17th) between the hours of :
10am - 1pm
Thursday (Apr 18th) at -
1pm - 3pm
Friday (Apr 19th) at -
10am - 4pm
I am flexible as needed on Tuesday and Friday especially.

If those times do not work for you guys I am open to hearing any of your preferred times!

Thank you so much for reaching out, have a great weekend :)


Best regards,

[lost cypress]

is this email solid to respond to this?

[true harness]

time zone!!!

[lost cypress]

yea i have that i just took it out for discord lolz, thank you though!

[lost cypress]

also you mentioned I could ask about how to prepare for the interview. You don't think it might be weird or unprofessional to include in this email to HR?

[true harness]

imo just do one thing at a time. after they respond to your email with a datetime, then you can ask them what to expect

[lost cypress]

great idea

Also are you a student at the moment too? Or nah

[true harness]

so it would seem

[lost cypress]

that's nice

are you looking to get internships at the moment as well?

[true harness]

nah

[earnest spade]

how do I make it to the top of the royale

[smoky quest]

what's a royale?

[earnest spade]

like in fortnite, but in programming

[smoky quest]

Sounds like you may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help as battle royales aren't related to career

[earnest spade]

nono, I meant as in how do I climb up the ladder type shit

[smoky quest]

You may want to try google translate to phrase your question in english. You are almost there but it's still not clear

[earnest spade]

like how do i become top dog in programming industry

[true harness]

you can view career ladders online. they describe the responsibilities of a developer at each level

[smoky quest]

In short: get good

[earnest spade]

im already good but my talent is unrecognized

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

[smoky quest]

Everyone say they are good. You will need a plan to prove it through education and 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 in projects and professional experience

[earnest spade]

that'll only make me mediocre at best, i want become top dog

[smoky quest]

then get to the top school

[true harness]

you wouldn't stop at only a degree. you would combine it with great programming skills, cloud skills, etc. soft skills also

[earnest spade]

do i need to be leng

[smoky quest]

you need to be based

[earnest spade]

real talk tho, is it realistically still worth getting into programming industry at this point in time? (with all the chat gtp stuff and shit)

[balmy spade]

Haven't you had enough trolling for a day?

[smoky quest]

yes. Tons of companies are hiring and technology is more pervasive than ever

[earnest spade]

im extremely seriuos rn

[balmy spade]

Then, extremely seriuosly, if your skill can be replaced by GPT then you need to work harder at developing some skill.

[earnest spade]

fr? I thought with all the layoffs and everything it's been going down hill

[smoky quest]

It's not an issue if you are the top dog

[earnest spade]

but only a few people can be top dog

[smoky quest]

then just royale it with cheese

[earnest spade]

and those spots might as well already be taken

[earnest spade]

hard to win a battle royale when your opponent has the high ground, you feel me?

[smoky quest]

so you are good but not that good

it still goes back to #career-advice message

[earnest spade]

the high ground analogy is supposed to highlight the fact that if you're already there you're at a significant advantage compared to someone who isn't already there, a first comer advantage so to speak

you feel me?

[smoky quest]

that wouldn't matter for people who are good. Skills issue

[midnight urchin]

اكوووو عرببب

هيووو

[smoky quest]

Hi! Let's use english

[balmy spade]

For those reading along; Learn, grow, and develop your skills in programming. There's plenty of room, ample opportunity, and even if the entire industry changes; you'll have learned enough to adapt and be perfectly fine.

[midnight urchin]

yes

[earnest spade]

Put Bugha against ninja but only allow ninja to build. Who do you think wins?

[smoky quest]

welcome aboard!
Do you have a question or topic you would like to discuss?

[earnest spade]

هديها اخوي

[smoky quest]

whichever candidate is the best fit for the role

[midnight urchin]

لك هلا عربي

[smoky quest]

!rule 4

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[midnight urchin]

Thanks

[smoky quest]

let's not make it a 3rd reminder 😉

[midnight urchin]

Can you do me the audio?

[smoky quest]

nope

[midnight urchin]

bay bay

Are there samp game developers here?

[earnest spade]

what I mean to say is if somebody is "good enough" and already has the job, they'll keep the job, and job spots aren't increasing (they're decreasing, actually).

[balmy oak]

what is samp?