career-advice

[upbeat aspen]

Freelance

[hearty island]

“Hey, damian - Let me know if you expect to have any topics to talk about during your 1:1 tomorrow.  I'm happy to discuss your career, etc., but I have nothing for you.  If you would like to meet, I would like to have it be later in the day, as I will be preparing for an interview that is scheduled for right after, and I could use the time to prepare.” did my boss just flex that she has an interview

[deft herald]

You could build a project and sell it. You could also make bots that do less than legal things but i'm definitely not suggesting that

[hearty island]

YES, i'm back on fishbowl, guys!!!

[plush summit]

[patent grove]

I have a quick question. How do you guys get better at technical interviews? Just keep doing leetcode questions?

[fringe sphinx]

Responded on pydis, not this channel plz.

[fringe sphinx]

leetcode just helps with one part of the puzzle, solving the screening/OA puzzle questions that are common nowadays.

You also need broad "substance", which you usually gain through projects & work experience.

And, you also need to know how to handle technical & behavioral questions.

[patent grove]

i think i do okay on the behaviorals to make it past but as soon as a live technical interview comes, i just fail. Would the solution be to just keep leetcoding?

[fringe sphinx]

I think it's just keep "coding" more challenging projects.

But, depends on why you fail the live technical interviews

[patent grove]

Its because I can't get the right answer I think, I always don't get through the entire question and I am honestly really bad at problem solving

[harsh river]

recruiting isn't allowed here.

[teal badge]

Oh I am sorry about that

[smoky quest]

leetcode is the exercises part. You also need to learn the material you will be tested on. So read some books on algorithms and datastructures as well

[vapid jay]

I want to pursue a career in backend development. I have little knowledge about Python, and I was wondering is this a good programming language to start with?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023

[vapid jay]

Thank you.

[buoyant seal]

The java has the biggest declain through dozens of years, but it is still fascinating how much of a market size it dominates ^_^.
Feeling like even if it will continue to die, it will be dying at least next 50 years

[fringe sphinx]

The future cobol

[tawdry sable]

3 weeks at blackrock vs 12 weeks data analyst at addepar

[tawdry sable]

Most of peoples code is written in java already

too much of a headache, unless we make a universal translator of code

[white relic]

something something three billion devices

[whole flare]

isn't it 7 billion now ?

[white relic]

I read 56 billion somewhere but who knows how creative that math is

[gritty rivet]

You're on the Python server what do you think we'll say 🤣 "Best" is vague, but it's probably the easiest to start with in any case

Learn the basics and move into the rest which isn't language specific:
https://roadmap.sh/backend

[deft herald]

Java installer: the McDonald's billboard of the software world

[hearty island]

i'm on a networking call with a guy from vendia, this blockchain platform. i hear the world blockchain and alarm bells start ringing in my head

[harsh river]

why?

[near ocean]

Blockchain usually means either crypto job or super weird niche startup that wants to throw blockchain on something already established and both options are bad

[fringe sphinx]

... I've told this before, but once had a project where they were proposing blockchain for cattle.

cows and stuff.

(not a joke, but yes, bankers were involved)

[near ocean]

Was it a literal blockchain to keep the cattle together?

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, idea was to prove provenance.

[near ocean]

Missed opportunity

[true harness]

the chainblock fence

[fringe sphinx]

but, that'd be genuis (intentional)

[hearty island]

yea he wouldn't be comfortable giving me a referral cuz he never worked with me, but he'd be open to mentoring me and just giving me overall advice

he also asked for business ideas for his side hustle and i was like uhh???

[white relic]

I just had a vision of cows with QR codes in the black and white patterns of their coats
🐄🐄🐄

[hearty island]

overall tho, he said with 6 internships i'm on a good track

he also said some rather strange stuff. like "i don't wanna pay people for my company bc they're frankly not good enough"

[white relic]

Uh.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, the realization that we're all just passengers on this space ship called earth.

[hearty island]

i offered some paltry advice like maybe try looking into hiring students? they're desperate to get their foot in the door

[fringe sphinx]

"I know lots of developers on discord" 😂

[hearty island]

tbf i did shout you guys out. like the entire server.

i don't know why he wouldn't want to hire students

he was like they have no experience in building enterprise level products

[buoyant seal]

I ve read somewhere similar project idea, the main thing was ability to track for final product, which ingredients were used back to their most original forms, including what was used to feed the cows ^_^ to ensure quality and just more awareness

[gritty rivet]

Not wrong

[hearty island]

yea, he's not

[white relic]

I mean, if you don't want to pay them though...

That just sounds like it was an odd conversation tbh

[hearty island]

it was rather strangge

[near ocean]

I know a bunch of buzzwords now, does that help?
How about those KPIs huh? My sprint velocity sure is something, rushing through these microservices ???

[smoky quest]

that's tautological for students

that's part of why they are entry level and not senior

[hearty island]

i know

it's like the chicken before the egg. or vice versa

[fringe sphinx]

Reminds me of my first boss who was pissed off that our web developers weren't good at graphic design.

[smoky quest]

fyi, that "mentor" sounds more to me like a hustler than the prototypical successful startup person

So it's better than nothing, but take their advice with a grain of salt

[hearty island]

yea i'm prob not going to take it that much further

[smoky quest]

If you were senior+, I would have some slack communities to recommend. But unfortunately, I am not aware of communities that target younger professionals

it doesn't mean they don't exist though. So worth looking into it

[drowsy flare]

Anyone have any experience with dealing with leadership that has no development background?

I’m a backend developer being undervalued and overworked because management doesn’t know anything about code

[smoky quest]

Can you get into more details?

[drowsy flare]

I work on a team with a senior developer and another junior developer (front end). Often times the “pretty things” are the only pieces of the work that get any type of recognition. My manager doesn’t know what a backend is for example and is uninterested in what it is or how it works. So I just get the short end of the stick oftentimes, even though my work is good. My senior developer speaks highly of me but tends to be a bit more reserved when communicating with my boss.

I think I just haven’t advocated for my self that well, and looking for tips on communicating with non technical people.

[buoyant seal]

Sounds like my first job. 😅

[smoky quest]

I mean, that sounds like a different problem than the original question.
I would suggest first to establish a communication channel with your manager in terms of:

• What is the criteria for success?
• What does it mean for him to say you are successful? Or if you aren't?
• Do you have a career ladder to rely upon?
• How is your performance evaluated?

These questions should bring in other questions and lead to something

Regardless of the technical acumen of your manager, you and them need to have an answer to these questions, whatever they will be.
It's also common for a manager to manage engineers from outside their specialty. That should not stop them from being able to help you

[buoyant seal]

1. never agree to overwork on weekends. Your self studies and sanity matters more. Tell always that your mental health will suffer in a devastated way if u go this way
2. Read this book, it is how to act professionally, how to communicate, how to be productive from software developer point of view for other software developers
   https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Coder-Conduct-Professional-Programmers/dp/0137081073

• i think in this book or another one, it was in detail described how to word your achivements. You have to in a subtle way showing your achievements. It is your own duty to make yourself more sellable.

3. learn https://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Kent-Beck/dp/0321146530
   https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Testing-Principles-Practices-Patterns/dp/1617296279
   unit testing matters! to have an average quality
4. consider also simplifying for yourself communications with frontend by using frameworks that autogenerate swagger docs
   https://django-ninja.dev/ , Django Ninja is both beginner friendly, rapidly productive and fit for this usage case.

[buoyant seal]

5. Also, don't agree with payments through profiits later, sharing of company ownership and etc. (they never will be in such startups)
   Keep stuff in a professional way and you just work for salary there. Negotatiate straight for regular salary only.

[buoyant seal]

What is the criteria for success?
What does it mean for him to say you are successful? Or if you aren't?
Do you have a career ladder to rely upon?
How is your performance evaluated?
those are recipes for normal companies, they don't work in such low budget startups. This is more life of jungle and he would more benefit from watching conference like this on this topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U

[smoky quest]

I don't know where they work, but I have worked in startups with a tiny amount of people and we always had these criteria and discussions.
So ymmv

[drowsy flare]

Wow, thank you guys a lot for the thorough responses. This is my first corporate/ technical job, so navigating the environment has been a bit of a challenge.

I definitely feel like I did this to myself by overworking trying to set a good impression and not working on my communication skills. Nevertheless, I will take what you guys said, and apply them at work.

Thanks for the advice as well as the understanding 🙏

[hearty island]

my luck on fishbowl is drying up

[cinder fossil]

ahaha this reminds me. I was applying for an intern position a couple of years back at a pretty competitive algorithmic trading firm, and got to the final stage where they fly you down to the office for an in-person full day of interviews. I got asked some very deep questions about topics I wasn't fully familiar with at the time, and ended up not getting that particular position.

The reason cited on that rejection phonecall?
The team deemed that, at this present moment, you lack sufficient industry experience to undertake the role. We would like you to apply with us again after one or two years in the field

Intern position.

It was a pretty nice entry into that world though.. I think I spent weeks studying up on the stuff I lacked afterwards, which ended well with a comfortable offer at one of their competitors. I got asked some relatively similar questions that, thanks to the learning from the prior interview, landed me the job in the end. But it's pretty funky how much they expect from people who have yet to really see industry :P

[smoky quest]

that's ludicrous

[smoky quest]

One thing to remember is that management is a job in itself that is very different from the regular dev job. Unfortunately, not everyone recognize that and it means a great engineer could become a terrible manager

[cinder fossil]

to be fair, their intern salary is £120k prorata + free corporate housing which is also pretty ludicrous for the UK (and was a much nicer offer than what I ended up landing) so I'm not surprised they were strict, but it does still feel pretty insane ngl

[smoky quest]

this ain't about being strict. This is just plain bad management

[cinder fossil]

+1 to that. I also ended up hearing directly from insider sources that they regularly have to cycle through people due to overwork and burnout, so I guess I dodged a bullet there lol

[smoky quest]

You cannot use the excuse of paying more than the average for hiding behind terrible practices.

[cinder fossil]

also, speaking of management - here's a current-career discussion. In the past year or so I've come to realise that I'm more effective at technical leadership than I am at actually being an engineer.. and I have no real idea how to come to terms with that, because I prefer engineering-focused work and architecting solutions myself

[hearty island]

and just as i say that, i get a referral to CME Group

[still shuttle]

do you guys have any suggestions on fields of cs that link with physics alot and are actually employable. ie not academia

for context my math background is pretty good, and i also have some experience with matlab and ai/ml in python

[smoky quest]

technical leadership can take many forms. It's not necessarily mutually exclusive.
That said, it does mean banging less in isolation for 2 months

[cinder fossil]

well.. it's kinda academia but research software engineers tend to make decent money and transferrable skills. I know a few working for companies such as one of our major weather companies, and others working for vehicle manufacturers or other parts of industry.

It's probably the best if you want a physics link, and it's what most physics graduates tend to fall into w.r.t computer science related roles.

[still shuttle]

would you suggest doing more study into the cs field? i dont really know the job market too well, its changing alot so fast

i think the best chances i have is selling my physics experience into certain fields of software engineering, like developing physics engines or going into something like semiconductors etc

[cinder fossil]

Yep for sure! I'd also recommend having a look at scientific computing in general, almost anything physics related would be under that general umbrella. HPC (high performance computing) is the actual keyword to look out for, links heavily with RSE work.

There are other more hardware-focused fields too like you mentioned, but pretty much all my contacts at companies like NVIDIA or similar come from a masters or PhD background, and are very research heavy

[still shuttle]

im actually planning to do a masters! but i havent really got any ideas

my thesis mostly dsp with a focus on audio and music, so i thought electrical engineering would be a good match

[cinder fossil]

Yeah, I am fully aware that I can still do engineering work; I have already sorta been put on the spot for this, with my boss directly placing two of my team members underneath me on a project I was fronting which led to a lot of time spent figuring out where they are best suited and how to further manage the project itself, whilst still doing some development myself (mainly integration due to my additional context, whilst training up the others)

I was fine with it and actually enjoyed it to an extent, but of course it does mean a LOT more time spent in meetings, identifying who is best for what job, catching up with coworkers to see progress / standups, and the additional administrative tasks of it all..

[cinder fossil]

that's fun! best thing you can do is have a deeper dive into it, and maybe even find some postgraduate students or even industry folk doing similar work to see what it's like? Pretty much all of my career/academic trajectory came from talking to people about their work aha

[still shuttle]

what do you recommend for high performance computing and where would it get me mostly? im planning to learn c++ asap.

ive done some research into dsp careers and i only really enjoy one subsection, which is unfortunately really competitive and not worth the pay apparently, so id keep it as a hobby of some form

[cinder fossil]

well, honestly the best way to get into HPC is to, as mentioned, learn C++ with a focus on parallel computing. And then move onto distributed computing with frameworks such as MPI.

If your current academic institution has a HPC cluster, it's also possible to ask them if you can use it and see if they have any training available for it. Also very useful to have a look at existing code in various areas (e.g. molecular dynamics, or cloud simulations, or weather.. and so on and so forth) to essentially just learn more about how it works and how to design such a program

Sadly the hardest part of breaking into the field is having access to those resources.. it's somewhat doable with smaller machines, but then you start having a lot of issues and general slowdowns from doing things in a non-standard fashion, which sucks

[still shuttle]

i know that companies like nvidia are putting alot of focus into ai right now

so maybe it would be worth it to continue my ai studies and pursue a masters which would give me access to these hardware based fields? and also study computer architecture

[cinder fossil]

to be honest, best advice I can give for this is just make sure you actually enjoy it if you want to pursue AI, and not just follow the hype

computer architecture can be a great way to break into the actual hardware side of things where your masters would certainly help, so I'd say yeah

[still shuttle]

alright thank you for the help! ill ask around my university and see what info i can find

[cinder fossil]

best of luck !

[smoky quest]

With 2-3 people, the rule of thumb is that you should still be able to code 50% of your time.
If that's not the case, it's worth exploring why.

If it's also new to you, it's also normal to take some time to find your footing and to be overwhelmed at the beginning

[torpid birch]

What job titles would someone look with python knowledge and a CCNA certificate?

[smoky quest]

That said, congrats!
It means people trust you!

[sharp furnace]

Hello, I just the discord server recently and I have a question to ask. How should I prepare for a career involving artificial intelligence and what book should I buy? I am hoping I can get an career involving Python but I also don’t mind if I should do another coding language instead. Sorry for the big paragraph

[deft herald]

Do you have any education?

[vital wyvern]

!res general
Start by learning Python. Basic familiarity with the language cannot possibly hurt you (and conversely, will serve to help you significantly.)
It's going to be very difficult to pursue some sort of professional career in AI without a degree in either CS or Data Science, and often many of the AI-related industries right now are being driven by Master's/PhD seeking students, if not those already at that educational level.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[sharp furnace]

I am currently in college and I am going to graduate in December

[vital wyvern]

What degree program are you in?

[deft herald]

Yeah I was basically going with what Rem said

[sharp furnace]

I am majoring in information systems

[vital wyvern]

What exactly does that entail? At face value I would imagine that's more geared towards Data Analytics and Information Security.

Either way, regardless:
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/designing-machine-learning/9781098107956/
This and a few of the 'You may also like' books have a spot on my shelf. I've browsed through them, I found them fairly tolerable. I think that... without a Computer Science/Data Science degree, you may be fighting an uphill battle though. Data Analytics is a good launching point for Data Science careers, which in turn lends itself well to Machine Learning applications-- as it often weaponizes the same math.

[sharp furnace]

Oh that’s fine honestly I just wanted to find out what type of career I should start. I probably should that instead. Sorry about that. What type of career can I start if I learn Python since I’m majoring in informations systems. It seem my classes were setup to where they are introducing us to ideal career choices but after we pass that class, we just move on to another ideal choice. Then again I don’t know if all majors were design like that

[vital wyvern]

N-no offense meant by this question, but did you pick your degree program without knowing what kind of jobs you'd be eligible for once you graduated?

[sharp furnace]

No I know what jobs I can do but I just don’t know what to choose. They taught us different programming languages and I decided to try out Python. However if I couldn’t think of what choose, then I was just go with current plan of learning C# to start my .net development career

[vital wyvern]

The language you choose isn't particularly... influential so to speak.
There are plenty of jobs for Python developers, C# devs, Javascript, Rust, C, C++, etc...

In fact, it's not uncommon for you to have exposure and knowledge of more than a few languages. Many of the SWE's or SWE's-in-training that I know are versed across a few different languages.

[pine sleet]

also once you know one language it's really easy to pick up other languages so it's not a big deal

[hollow swallow]

Is Python a good language to start learning programming with if I eventually wanna get into Game Development?

[pine sleet]

yes

[kindred oyster]

C# or C++ would be a better choice imo

[pine sleet]

instead learn how to reason about complex problems and implement efficient and robust solutions. this is what companies hire for, not that you know python or know C# or wahtever else language

[hollow swallow]

Is this like from an absolute beginner POV? because i really don't know anything about programming rn besides python basics

[kindred oyster]

if you are starting from 0 , why not start from a language that is relevent to your field ? instead of learning 1 thing first then learning another language that is heavily used

[pine sleet]

python is probably a better language for learning game development, because it lets you learn exactly that without the language itself getting in the way

and like i said, once you know one language it's easy to pick up others

[vital wyvern]

Certain languages can make it difficult to see the forest through the trees. I don't directly disagree, but I'm also generally apprehensive about putting someone in front of C++ as their first language and telling them to fly.

[sharp furnace]

Oh okay so really just what I want language I prefer?

[pine sleet]

sure

[vital wyvern]

Read what the birdman said. He was who I was talking about when I referred to people who know a variety of languages from an SWE-in-training perspective.

[kindred oyster]

python as a language would be easier to learn for you
but , there are comparitively very less python jobs for game dev

market is dominated by other languages

and it is not like you cant learn other languagegs first

i had learnt C/C++ as my first language (which is like the most common language for people doing a degree) and i do not regret it , i got a lower level overview as compared to python which helped me better understand computers

[pine sleet]

but also would recommend trying out different languages in different "classes", they may introduce new ways of thinking and solving problems

[vital wyvern]

I actually think that Java is the most commonly taught lang. But I digress, your point still stands.
I don't think that learning C/C++ as a start is a bad thing-- but again, it can be an uphill battle, and none of that is strictly necessary for most programming tasks.
I'm not against learning C++ as a first language, to be clear. I do think it's a harder starting point though, especially if you don't have a lot of exposure to other languages.

[kindred oyster]

sure, learning C/C++ over python will be harder any day of the week

being easy and not getting in the way much is one of the best things of python

[sharp furnace]

Oh okay, I didn’t annoy u right? I didn’t mean to annoy anyone if I did

[vital wyvern]

No, you're absolutely fine! I was more saying "Other people kind of echo this sentiment as well." The important thing for you is to... spend time learning a language. And I mean truly learning, not following tutorials, not consuming content-- but writing code, and practicing it frequently. Nobody, and I mean nobody in the developer space is coming out of their education program out of the gate being qualified to make anything to scale unless they've spent ample time practicing, writing code, and practicing some more.

[pine sleet]

fr just dive into it

all too often people spend too much time figuring out the best path, spending hours researching "best language", "best projects", "best XYZ"

literally anything you do will build up your skills, even at least a little bit, and that's invaluable

[kindred oyster]

this is so freaking true , i have seen some people spend weeks researching about the thing and looking for the best optimal way
instead of just doing it

[pine sleet]

granted, your first projects will be shitty and it will suck, but your next project will also be shitty and suck (but a little bit less)

[pine sleet]

honestly i think it's a form of procrastination/choice paralysis

[kindred oyster]

probably

[pine sleet]

you feel like you're being productive and learning something but you're really not

[sharp furnace]

Oh okay. Thank you for reassuring me

[terse acorn]

Did anyone hear about Devin AI ?

Does it pose any significant risk to us software developers or:

[hexed heron]

Did you just watch a Youtube video and get freaked out? 😆

[terse acorn]

Ye :()

[hexed heron]

Fireship is really good at hyping stuff up but not really stating any of its downsides or looking at it very critically imo

https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1bd12gc/comment/kujyidr/?share_id=YrtF9s3hs9XzhCarPd1J0&utm_content=2&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

[vapid jay]

Not much as sora

That shi can remove anything on you

[pine sleet]

No

[graceful nest]

hey guys, if im doing computer science for college, should buy a macbook pro m3 or macbook air m3? I like that air is more portable and lightweight but im afraid that it might heat up as it does not have a fan. and i dont know how heavy the softwares i will be running are so 🤷🏻

[vapid jay]

Pro is better investment for heavy

[terse acorn]

Okay so it has downsides but can these downsides be fixed , I mean can they be improved or smth and even if AI replaced humans , how many years will it take ?

[graceful nest]

but for college level is it that heavy?

[vapid jay]

I don't think you will run something too heavy in college then get air

[vital wyvern]

Nobody can possibly answer this question.

[vapid jay]

To replace humans more around 100 years

Maybe mid end of this century

[vital wyvern]

Correction: Nobody can possibly answer this question with any form of accuracy or credible statements to provide the appropriate context.

[hexed heron]

As far as I am aware no one has seen Devin do anything outside of controlled demos released by the team that worked on it. And yes as far as the general AI question there is no way I can possibly know this. It seems like going from LLM to AGI is not something a lot of experts think will happen though. (I am not an expert in AI by any means)

It is always a good idea to remember that Youtubers work off views and engagement. Farming trends, fear mongering and hype are great ways to boost both of those metrics. Take everything you watch with a grain of salt and look into it more deeply on your own before letting it effect any decisions in your life or your emotions.

[terse acorn]

@hexed heron what an explanation

Amazing!!!!

[vapid jay]

YouTube is degrading yt shorts are cancer

[smoky quest]

Hi!
We don't do ads. Can you remove it?

[opal folio]

yep sorry

its not really an add tho, just want some feedback on a product idea

[proven pulsar]

is comsci still cooked?

[white relic]

"Still"?

[gritty rivet]

Who said it was?

[balmy spade]

The market right now isn't as great as it was in 2020-2021. It is also far from the worst it has ever been.

[hearty island]

you need a solid resume and projects. and a couple internships.

[crystal stump]

hello

[hearty island]

hi!

[vapid jay]

Seriously bruh that weird cat pfp again

[austere tide]

Does it scream gen z, gen alpha lmao

[heavy fox]

Hey everyone what’s up hop u great so I want to ask that I just start learning as a software engineer like one month so I hear about devin company that replaces software engineer so I asked that can i stick with learning or I choose another field so plz reply.

[vapid jay]

You can stick learning even in future cs has much scope and many opportunities

[white relic]

There are many reasons to believe that AI will not replace developers at scale any time soon. Even if it does, there are reasons to believe that the opportunities created by more powerful AI tools will create even more engineering positions that leverage AI instead of reducing them.

[vapid jay]

The one who knows to use ai will take your job

[white relic]

Devin in particular kinda looks like a scam tbh based on what I've read, but what it is purported to do isn't totally implausible

[cinder fossil]

devin is pretty good at simple tasks like syntax errors or basic problem solving, but currently lacks long term planning capability

I wouldn't be concerned until it reaches at least 60% on the SWE benchmark

(and even then, there's plenty of other tasks to still do in the field beyond simple programming)

[white relic]

So far I haven't seen evidence that devin can actually do anything except in promotional material published by its own developers

[mortal kite]

After receiving a rejection for an application for a role elsewhere in the company, I want to reach out to get information on which aspects make me not a good match, so I know what to improve upon in the future. Is this advisable?

[heavy fox]

So devin company never replaced software engineer more than like 5 to 10 years

[white relic]

There's no harm in asking for feedback. I wouldn't expect much though

[kindred oyster]

these new "AI"s will "takeover" the boring tasks , like boilerplate and repetitive code and whatnot
but the creativity part is still for the devs

companies hire devs for creative part and adaptaion part, not for doing repetitive tasks

[white relic]

For the company there is no upside to telling you why you were rejected and big potential downside if it gives you some reason to believe you were discriminated against or whatever

[mortal kite]

I'm no stranger to discrimination lol

I didn't disclose my diagnosis, my orientation, or my gender, so it probably isn't that.

[white relic]

Point is it isn't in the company's interest to disclose reasons for not hiring you

[mortal kite]

Even though it is an internal application

[white relic]

Even if they aren't discriminatory

[mortal kite]

That sounds downright sociopathic

[white relic]

It's the consequence of a litigious society.

[forest sonnet]

hello, I see this chat is somewhat active so I’d like to ask a question here

[mortal kite]

The exact text of the message I sent was "Hey {name}, thanks for looking through my application and letting me know I am not a good fit for the role. Are you able to provide a list of actionable items I can focus on to become a better fit in the future?"

[white relic]

That sounds fine.

[mortal kite]

Focusing entirely on job skills, so they can respond with only job skills. Should keep the lawyers happy.

[forest sonnet]

Basically, I’m being encouraged to learn something such as python, and I’ve heard a lot that it’s one of the easier languages to learn. When I was younger I tried learning html and css (a few times throughout the years), javascript, and ruby. I wanted to know how realistically easy it is to learn, if there’s anything I should know or a way I should view it, I’d love to know.

[hearty island]

oh god, not devin.

[mortal kite]

Python is very easy to learn.

[hearty island]

devin will not take us over

no bowing down to ai overlords just yet

[mortal kite]

Devin will not succeed simply because it has the same limitation that all AI has: it doesn't ask clarifying questions, and doesn't push back when the prompt is a stupid idea.

[forest sonnet]

where did this devin come from

who tf is devin?!

[hearty island]

it's some ai thing. i just saw it on insta.

[forest sonnet]

oh i was like “are they referring to me? do they think my msg was ai?”

[hearty island]

lolll, nah you won't find referrals here. what you will find is solid resume and career advice.

[near ocean]

It should be about the same as JS or ruby, they're all pretty similar
Js and python are more popular though, so bigger communities

[forest sonnet]

ruby was easy to learn just maybe not for how old I was at the time. I’m sure I could learn it now, so it’s good to hear the learning level is the same

[near ocean]

Ruby also has the upside of looking cool af

[mortal kite]

My brother and I are in disagreement about the best approach to take with certifications. He says I should jump straight to the hard stuff like Kubernetes Application Developer, and I say I should start with easy ones to get some momentum and easy wins for mental health. He says it is a waste of time. Thoughts from the crowd?

[near ocean]

If you also want to pick up ruby and js up, the Odin Project has a fullstack course using both

[forest sonnet]

Thank You!

[white relic]

focusing on job skills doesn't completely obviate the risk of litigation. for instance, if they say your Python skills aren't good enough, but you find out later that they hired someone else with comparable or worse Python skills (which in reality could be for any mundane reason, like having better skills in some other area, or that the underlying business needs changed in the mean time) you could argue that you were discriminated against for being a different race or gender. The company might win the suit if it went to court, but they would probably end up settling.
Presumably you aren't the kind of person who would pursue a frivolous discrimination lawsuit, but it's still all downside from the company's POV.

[mortal kite]

The only discrimination lawsuits I pursue are non-frivolous. Lawyers are expensive.

Besides, my severe rejection sensitive dysphoria will probably prevent me from actually finding out who they hired...although given the company in question it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they hired someone who writes python code as if it were .NET

Or Enterprise Java 8

[white relic]

Been on a team with that kind of dev before 😩

[vapid jay]

this argumment in favor of our jobs does't will last much longer.

to AI start producing high quality codes will take just few years (or months)

all App/software starts from a highly descripted blue print

[deft herald]

Oh it does? 😄

That would be nice, wouldn't it

[vapid jay]

yes, some apps, like i'm working, it get new features and is envolving

but what happens when you can reduce/represents the project achiteture more efficiently for a IA?

why it should stay "coding" like us? for a compute generating instructions, there is more effective ways to do that, in a way IA's can fit better

there is will be demand for programmers? yes, i did't imagine yet a AI linking a embbed hardware to a software (OS)

companies still doing what they did for the last 20 years, parasiting us, and forcing us to consume their products, now is copilot, learning from our data how to fix, and getting better

[digital fjord]

As with all this "programmers will be replaced" fear-mongering, I'll believe it when I see it. No one knows how far AI can get with current methods, and if it can ever get to the point it can operate independently in a useful manner.

[vapid jay]

for now, and the next year almost our jobs are safe, we doesn't know what will happen in the future, no one knows

but in the future, with high quality AIs, what is the meaning of a APP to calculate something, do your tax report, watch videos, when a AI can answer, the entire meaning of software and it's relation with users will be changed

as NVIDIA DLSS renders new frames, maybe AI rendered APPs will exists? there is a lot of possibilities

and a lot of then hurts our market and the globe, AI itself needs a lot of water, how poor countries will deal with AGI

how they will be able to buy hardware to create AGI when the economy is AGI driven

[white relic]

This is just fearmongering. LLMs are nowhere near AGI

[vapid jay]

yes, is very different, but i will be alive in the next 20 years, we will see that rise, even though i die the persons that i love will see that

[near ocean]

Will we be around in 20 years? Why worry about this?

People in 20 years will adapt like we have with the internet and many other things before that

[pastel thunder]

• Refactored 100+ APIs within a weeks following a database redesigning.
does this sound good enough? it sounds lame to me, and too short

[true harness]

it seems out of the realm of possibility. what is an "API" here?

[pastel thunder]

rest api lmao

[deft herald]

you refactored 100 entire API's?

[true harness]

do you mean, endpoints? even then it's still a bit suspect

[deft herald]

I don't think i've refactored 100 things in my entire career yet

[pastel thunder]

it was relatively easy

[vapid jay]

hello

[pastel thunder]

one took couple of minutes

"The goal of refactoring is to improve internal code by making many small changes without altering the code's external behavior"

[deft herald]

what exactly did this refactoring entail? And if its different endpoints for the same service, i would call that "one" API

[pastel thunder]

how old is your life bro

career*

[deft herald]

12 years

[fringe sphinx]

Tbh, some folks call everything refactoring, definitional problems

I do it sometimes. Let me refactor this = let me make a small change to the app

[deft herald]

yeah i guess that's my point. A refactor to me is a relatively large project

like nuke everything except the call signature and rewrite it

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, in general I like the original def: changing an api implementation while preserving contract

[pastel thunder]

how big a refactor be, if you say refactored api
one api is pretty small

[fringe sphinx]

But that can be very small level: change one module

[deft herald]

Re-implement API to support database redesign

[pastel thunder]

thats what i did

[deft herald]

did you do the database redesign too?

[pastel thunder]

no

[deft herald]

Yeah i would say something lke this then

[pastel thunder]

remove 100+

[deft herald]

I guess you could still say refactor. But you didn't refactor 100 things - you refactored one thing

[pastel thunder]

but why cant i see i refactored 100 api

[deft herald]

maybe "Refactored API of 100+ endpoints to support database redesign"

[true harness]

points to some ambiguity in the bullet point, though

[true harness]

the endpoints that make up one service are part of the same API

[pastel thunder]

can you elaborate please?

one app need 100 different types of data, so that need 100 api right
will you say there is one api in app?

[fringe sphinx]

I think just take the 100s out. That’s an eyebrow raiser

[pastel thunder]

lmao, i want to add number,
should i reduce it? lmao

[fringe sphinx]

Just say something like: Refactored legacy xyz APIs using abc, with 100% test coverage and def. Or something

Nobody cares about the number of APIs. Any number is unimportant and unnecessary to your experience.

[pastel thunder]

umm, ok
but this sounds like a stretch
"with 100% test coverage and def."

[fringe sphinx]

Or something. Something to explain why this was interesting or a good experience

[pastel thunder]

this is where i cant come up with those words

[fringe sphinx]

Well, just tell us: why was this interesting? Or hard? Or a good learning xp?

[pastel thunder]

ok let me think...

[true harness]

the entire interface to the app is 1 API

[pastel thunder]

i think saying http methods would fix that, but would sound lame

[true harness]

i mean. maybe it's just lame

[pastel thunder]

Revamped complete backend APIs within a week following a database redesign

[deft herald]

You don't like this one? 😛

[pastel thunder]

but this might make them think, how small would backend have been, that it got revamped in a week

[deft herald]

Don't mention that it only took you a week

[pastel thunder]

I think its fair, should i make it longer

[deft herald]

The less words to communicate what you want, the better

[pastel thunder]

cool. lets leave it like that.

there are two other points:
• Developing event streaming platform based on OneM2M standards with Kafka, and Apache druid.
• Developed data asset management systems utilizing RESTful APIs, Java, MongoDB, Nuxeo framework.

[deft herald]

You have mixed tenses there

[pastel thunder]

I think i am just listing names, how to also show contribution

edited

[vapid jay]

that's why we pay pay social security

[severe hedge]

brothers im so depressed and havent studied anything since yesterday watching all the AI developments, is it really not worth learning python anymore when a bot gonna be doing all that in seconds what usually take me months to master, please guide

[near ocean]

When will these questions about AI ever stop?

[tight dragon]

dont worry even if we ever get to that level it will take some years or maybe a decade so in meantime you can use your skills to make money with what you ve been learning so far

besides dont forget the fact that we are the developers who are pushing this further and I am sure at some point we will let the AI do all boring and repitive stuff but we will find ourselves something more fun and interesting to work with

[near ocean]

Nobody who has a job in software thinks they should give up because openAI made a fancy chatbot

[hearty island]

Damnit, the recruiter told my boss I got an internship

Now my boss told the entire team I got a role at the company again. rip my relationship with my laid off coworkers

fucking nuking my work life

Why add unnecessary drama to the workplace

[buoyant seal]

and again don't worry. Those AI developments are mostly actually just a scam to rob money out of investors. They need hype to get more money.
it will pass, like Web3/Crypto/NFT scamming.

[hearty island]

never

[severe hedge]

im sorry if my question pissed you off, but i genuinely was concerned and wanted someone to talk w someone about, im a student yet

@buoyant seal
@tight dragon thanks for answers bro, i guess i should just keep going, whatever i learn wont go in vain

[true harness]

social security can't even support the boomers, how is it gonna support everyone 🥴

[buoyant seal]

you could read some simple answers for clues here https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1bd12gc/relevant_news_cognition_labs_today_were_excited/ regarding the latest hype about Cognition

you could read smart answers why it is racket https://medium.com/an-arxiv-a-day/artificial-intelligence-is-a-racket-d44438db5b4b about AI in general

[buoyant seal]

Non tech people strive to replace need for developers for last 70 years, each time hyping, this time it will be different. In the meantime demand only grows. Lets wait another 70 years 😅 May be some day it will happen when they invent a true AI at the level of Matrix/Terminators stuff... but the probability of it is rather flimsy like invention of Hyper Drive Fast Than Light engines... not very high if going ever to happen

[fringe sphinx]

I lump it in with the gartner hype cycle.

[terse ingot]

hey do any of you guys have tips for finding side-gigs? I'm trying to get some supplemental income but i dont know where to look

[fringe sphinx]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gartner_hype_cycle#/media/File%3AGartner_Hype_Cycle.svg

[fringe sphinx]

This is asked frequently, with no satisfying answers. Fiverr and upwork seem to be difficult places to make a buck, but really the only option for small work. I’ve known friends to have side gigs doing web dev for small companies or businesses: but you have to actually network and meet people

[terse ingot]

yeah i figured

i think im just gonna shotgun and hit up a whole bunch of local businesses

[hollow flax]

yo guys noob question
as a incoming cs major when should i start uploading to my github?

[buoyant seal]

right as soon as u learned usage of Git at a right level
Git is better than using Google drive or Zip archives
way more useful even just to store student work

[hollow flax]

ah okay
i’m on it
does that take long?

[buoyant seal]

u could get a hang quicker with this book https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/head-first-git/9781492092506/

[buoyant seal]

add to pass this visual tutorial in addition https://learngitbranching.js.org/
Remember always, Git CLI is first important thing preferably to learn. GUIs are different and optional, just for the sake of easier later viewing capabilities.
U could of course use GUIs for Git, but it will benefit you getting hang of CLI more, since it will remain constant with you highly likely through your full career.

[fringe sphinx]

Git takes minutes to learn, but a lifetime of ‘what the heck is the command again?’

https://xkcd.com/1597/

[hollow flax]

oh lol fr?

[hollow flax]

appreciate you broski
this is helpful

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, darkwinds advice is solid. Just don’t be surprised if you’re still confused 🙂

[buoyant seal]

btw, since we are on this topic. Recently i found ultimate non CLI interface to GIT 😅
https://github.com/jesseduffield/lazygit

[fringe sphinx]

Have you read about jj?

That is impressive effort there tho 🙂

[buoyant seal]

looked briefly. looks very experimental and i did not really face problems that it would be solving for me
I am happy with having everything stable and supported in ecosystem of Git.

[pine sleet]

Yeah I main lazygit, it's excellent and would recommend

[pastel thunder]

any suggestions???

please let me know, even if something sounds off/lame

[rapid isle]

What kind of jobs/businesses could i get into with coding (of any kind)?

Just wondering because i was trying to think of some but Im stuck

[glacial prawn]

I think to start, you could do Replit Bounties

https://replit.com/bounties

(you may need to make an account)

[rapid isle]

tried looking for some i could do, they are way underpriced but useful for just learning

[glacial prawn]

they can go up to 9000 dollars

[rapid isle]

Im saying for some they say a full working app for 100 dollars

[glacial prawn]

yes

[white relic]

for coding contract work you are competing with people all over the world and many who either don't need the money at all or don't need much

[rapid isle]

Its ridiculous

[glacial prawn]

I know

[white relic]

It's a hard way to make money

[glacial prawn]

it is

[rapid isle]

Yeah

[glacial prawn]

But you should not expect it to be easy

All good careers are hard

there is no quick and easy way to get money

right?

[white relic]

It is true, but it is also true that some ways are surer and easier than others.

[glacial prawn]

that is true

have you applied to any replit bounties?

[white relic]

If you have the option to go to university and get a CS degree, that is the path of least resistance and with the greatest opportunity (in the area of software development)

I doubt that replit bounties would pay my mortgage, personally.

[glacial prawn]

right

what about crypto bots?

[fringe sphinx]

The problem with many of these questions are: you can take the safe path, or you can take the risky path. But people who take the risky path are rarely the ones who ask which path to take 🤷🏻

[white relic]

trading bots? basically gambling

[pastel thunder]

for first, does 100 sound off or "withing 1 week" sound off

for the second question, i have mentioned the link to the paper

for third, I will add "automatic surveillance of video footage"

for forth, i will say "achieved"

found some more typo while reading, thanks for pointing out

[turbid bobcat]

"implemented SOTA from latest research", you're repeating yourself because SOTA already means latest research

[peak halo]

Not necessarily. "latest" is a statement about when the research occurred relative to other relevant research. The latest research might not produce something more advanced than whatever it was intended to build on.

but yeah, it's probably redundant in this context.

[deft herald]

I already mentioned before i wouldn't include the "in one week" part in that 3rd bullet

[turbid bobcat]

I double checked the definition of state of the art

the most recent stage in the development of a product, incorporating the newest technology, ideas, and features.

[pastel thunder]

ok will remove

[deft herald]

Extensive experimented with
makes no sense

[pastel thunder]

man i am exhausted
forgot grammer, and english

[deft herald]

I would change "Extensive experimented with" to "Simulated..."

also

and Fast Gradient Sign Method methods

=>

and Fast Gradient Sign methods

[turbid bobcat]

I think the phrasing here and there can be better but I actually think you're doing a good job managing your available space.

Try to avoid leaving out small amounts of words in the next line, cuz it wastes a lot of space, it's an entire line dedicated to three words for ex

[deft herald]

And why is this one capitalized but the other method is not?

[pastel thunder]

umm, simulated is little unconventional in ML term i believe, what do you think?

[pastel thunder]

thanks for pointing out, fixing

[deft herald]

"Perfomed experiments with"?

[pastel thunder]

i see, Actually i wasnt able to fit in one page, so i just use 2 pages

[deft herald]

Idk maybe someone else has a good opinion on this?

[turbid bobcat]

The phrase needs to be more results oriented

If there's a metric, it should be included and moved to the start of the sentence, taking only a short amount of space so that it serves as a hook to catch the readers attention

[pastel thunder]

I have added in publication:
Achieved SOTA performance with relative improvement of 8.3% in video-to-text and 1.4% in text-to-video retrieval metric using a novel method of adaptively weight contrastive losses operating on fine-grained representation of sentence components. Contributed to improvement in video moment retrieval baseline.

[turbid bobcat]

And quickly transition into the technical details, I personally prefer to be detailed to show that I have the fangs to do the job, but many people advocate for not being overly detailed because stuff can be asked during the interview

[pastel thunder]

i see, I am pretty good atleast at my top 4 experience, I dont know shit about Embedded systems, they are also old intern, so i also reduced its content

[turbid bobcat]

Achieved an 8.3% performance increase as compared to SOTA in video-to-text retrieval by introducing a novel method of (...)

And its still a bit long I'd say. But the metric is moved to the start and the wording is made to imply productivity and agency in the outcome

[pastel thunder]

cool , i will incorporate.

[whole flare]

based

[hearty island]

i'm trying to get better at tableau, build up a portfolio. this way if i get laid off again, i have something to fall back on.

[whole flare]

as a data viz nerd I approve

[whole flare]

(I need to learn Tableau 🗿 )

[hearty island]

it's not hard to pick up

just lie and use your student email for a subscription 🙂

[whole flare]

all the data analyst roles literally just say 'R, Tableau, Power BI, pandas, seaborn, Python, MATLAB etc'

[whole flare]

devious amount of trolling

[hearty island]

ooooooof, matlab.

[whole flare]

real, time to get a PhD in numbers

[frank cairn]

Hey can someone send me an invite to a good web development server?

[hearty island]

"A leading Medical Device company are actively seeking a motivated candidate to fill their Project Management Analyst opportunity. This is an initial 6-month contract role with opportunity to extend/ convert to FTE. This is an on-site role based in Irvine, CA. Salary ranges between $35-40/hour depending on experience.

The main function of this role is to provide project management support to the Commercial Operations Department. Owner of the New Products Launch Process tools and templates.
nah fuck off, 35-40 an hour in cali is ridiculous.

[gritty rivet]

Look on Disboard and you'll see them

[pine sleet]

well that's not it

[pine sleet]

https://discord.gg/NcAQP5wZ

[fringe sphinx]

Of the ones you’ve posted, that seems the least ridiculous.

[hearty island]

fr?

[fringe sphinx]

But only if you had a place to stay/etc, wouldn’t relocate to Irvine for a 6month job

[hearty island]

that's my concern

[hearty island]

if i had a referral to capital one, but the role is slightly out of my reach of xp, should i still apply?

[fringe sphinx]

Why not

[hearty island]

yea, worst they could say is no right

also i just got a referral to mongodb 😭

[fringe sphinx]

Yup. Be more confident. Especially after that last interview.

[hearty island]

never any harm in trying

[vapid jay]

hey so I am a new dev what should I make in my portfolio to impress ppl

[fringe sphinx]

Tell us more? Education? Country and experience are helpful to start.

[vapid jay]

10th grade

[fringe sphinx]

Then what do you mean by impress people?

[vapid jay]

to see that i am a young dev

[fringe sphinx]

It’s notoriously hard to impress other software engineers.

We all assume we can code anything in a week.

[pine sleet]

wdym, we can't?

[sick plaza]

no one is going to be impressed by you copying and pasting other people's code

people care about you being able to make new things that are useful to them, not just copying some example from google

[fringe sphinx]

My advice; pick a simple project, like a simple game, then make something slightly harder (a better game), and keep repeating

[sick plaza]

anyone who interviews you is going to ask you technical questions too

and if you just copied and pasted everything you'll fail that interview

[pine sleet]

not to discourage you but 99% of projects of people at that age are not impressive. that's not to say don't make projects, though, you should still always work on at least one project to build up your skills so you can build impressive projects in the future. assuming you're in the U.S, the best thing to do in the 10th grade is to keep up your grades in school, study for SAT/ACT/AP exams, start looking at colleges

[sick plaza]

there's no "get impressive quick" scheme

[vapid jay]

also im learning coding so I can get a job one day and also leave my parents house that is my goal I dont want to live at my parents place no more I want to be a business man where I can make money on my own

[hearty island]

yea i agree with all the advice ^

[pine sleet]

great starting point. keep it going!

[hearty island]

would you agree with me saying that it's a good idea to showcase technical projects during the interview? to really prove what you say? i actually really liked that interview format

not sure if every company does that tho

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, sometimes interviewers aren’t very good at asking the right question: this is why preparing a story or two is powerful. You can guide the interview to areas you’re comfortable

[hearty island]

i mean the interviewer basically asked "tell me about yourself and what are your capabilities? what can you offer to the team?," so i thought why stop there but really knock the ball out of the park and take it to the next level

[vapid jay]

so what project should I make?

[fringe sphinx]

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[sick plaza]

I mean if you responded with a project with you're working on when I asked you tell me about yourself I would think it was breaking the rules of the interview

[fringe sphinx]

Take a look at this list for ideas

[sick plaza]

I'd be like why is this guy talking about the details of some project he worked on instead of answering the question directly

[fringe sphinx]

Yes and no, you could certainly work that into the ‘about me’

[sick plaza]

it depends on how detailed it is

[hearty island]

i answered the question fully first and then i said with your permission, i'd actually like to prove that i can do what i'm saying

[sick plaza]

if you just went on a tangent about a project to a high level question like describe yourself I'd be rolling my eyes

[hearty island]

lol

it wasn't super detailed, but the point is that they liked what i did. maybe it wouldn't work with every interviewer, i do concede that

[fringe sphinx]

That’s quite a strawman tho, just mentioning what you’re working on is different than talking non stop.

[sick plaza]

I've interviewed people from good schools who do things like that

also interviewing for positions where they have the wrong stories

[hearty island]

i didn't just waffle on and on about me tho, i made sure to cut myself off

There was a natural point in the conversation where the guy was like ok, I actually wasn’t going to do this but I want to present some stuff to you too because your stuff is interesting

[sick plaza]

my philosophy towards interviews is directly and completely answer the question as concisely as possible

the time is yours if you waste it or are unresponsive that's on you

that will vary of course

I think that's the safest approach though that's my own approach towards interviewing. no one can fault you for directly answering a question but some people don't like it when you try to control the conversation

[fringe sphinx]

Personally, I think this strategy leaves opportunities on the table. Theres a balance, yes, but expanding on answers/elaborating, but also being sensitive to interviewers queues is important

[sick plaza]

interviews are often people looking for reasons to disqualify you

the first person who doesn't get disqualified often just gets the offer

[fringe sphinx]

Oh that’s not at all how I’ve ever interviewed

[sick plaza]

let's say our desk has a quota of 3 interns

we get like 20 short listed resumes

we have reasons to disqualify 18 of them

2 of them just automatically get in and we talk about the last one

[naive skiff]

hi guys

i see help, would anybody help me with this assignemt

[hearty island]

Wrong spot, try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[naive skiff]

mb sorry

[sick plaza]

like "this person doesn't seem particularly interested"
"this person's story doesn't make sense"
"this person cursed during the interview"

[hearty island]

Nah no problem

[sick plaza]

"this person didn't directly answer questions" "this person contradicted themselves"

when you go through the list of everything young people get wrong in interviews there's a few of them that don't do something stupid

none of them are that impressive but you remember the dumb things people said

[naive skiff]

anybody can give me a hand

in #1035199133436354600

[sick plaza]

I think the way most places I've worked operated is "the first person we are happy with is getting the offer"

when it's something like interns where it's a batch of people usually there's enough reasons that you're kind of iffy on most of them even if they come from elite schools...

so what's the point? I think the point is having a minimum attack surface is the optimum strategy

Never complain, only explain if asked to explain

[naive skiff]

so explain to me then

[patent grove]

will the market ever recover for junior engineers?

[ember crest]

"do my homework for me" lol

[ember crest]

Recover? what broke down?

Them ai's don't run on cuddles and sunshine y'know?

[patent grove]

Every job description is asking for 3+ years of experience, even the junior level jobs

[hearty island]

that's why you do internships throughout your undergrad to rack up xp

[patent grove]

Yeah I did 3 internships and undergrad research, they don't count those as years of experience.

[ember crest]

This is bluff,

better believe that.

They always want someone that can speak 12 languages fluently, has a medical degree and license and brings a 30 years worth of networking and clients to the table.

You on the other hand look for sixfigure salary, m1chip computer, lamborghini of the company, 2 housing options ( one beachside and one downtown). and preferably some daycare options for your 40 children.

[hearty island]

idk about that, i've gotten full-time interviews bc of my internships that require 2+ years of xp

[native parrot]

I'm in a dilemma, any council would be helpful. So I love and want to do Computer Science, especially with the point being made that finally I'd have something purposeful to do with code besides writing amateur python scripts out of boredom. But this is where my future gets twisted.

My father owns a travel agency that would easily surpass whatever paycheck I made as a Software Engineer for a year in practically a month, he wants me to take over from him, he's not being pushy but I can tell he really wants me to become his successor as the eldest son. I don't want to abandon what I love, but if I do, my future would be set for life, while with CompSci I can't even be too sure with how competitive it is right now.

What do you guys suggest I do?

[patent grove]

So no one else thinks that the market is skewed towards mid level or seniors heavily right now?

[hearty island]

no i definitely do, but it's about how you leverage yourself

[ember crest]

On a first hand sentiment, I relate to this.

On 2nd hand, no. Don't fall for the bluff.

It's there to screen out those easily scared away from positions they were otherwise competent enough to fill.

[hearty island]

say fuck it and apply anyways, worst they say is no.

[patent grove]

Yeah I am not getting completely shut out, its just the ghosting ig. I've gotten responses back from Tesla, Google, and IBM but yet to be scheduled. I guess Im talking about the ghosting really lol

[hearty island]

fuck it, we ball is the mentality.

[ember crest]

ask yourself: why is it vacant?

because we werent societally capable of producing high-end trained individuals?
or high-end trained individuals don't apply for them positions?

[patent grove]

I think its because there are more experienced people than me in the job market applying for any role they see

[hearty island]

i had an interview at amazon lol, but it was just the online part 😦

they had fucking wild requirements too.

[ember crest]

yesn't, but currently it is the classic case of:
Everyone wants the cake , no one wants to make it.

I know it's demotivating as fek receiving 500 no's

[hearty island]

it's worth it for that 1 yes

i got so many referrals in 4 days 'cuz of blind and fishbowl. this shit is goated.

[ember crest]

I hate internships tho.

[hearty island]

well. in this job market, it's well worth it. i've done 6.

[ember crest]

They don't pay full scale but ask 200% the labour.

[hearty island]

well i will do my 6th. it's gonna start in May

[ember crest]

back in 07 did internship at a major publisher of educationbooks.
they were happy with my fivefigure productionpower a month, but pointed towards internship contractrates when I brought it up, every month.

Finish the contract, they won't hire me back, because the full paygrade isn't worth it, they'd rather hire another dumbass like I was than continue on the trust build prior.

[hearty island]

i'm sorry to hear that man.

[ember crest]

🤷 There's nothing new under the sun.

[hearty island]

i got a referral to booz allen hamilton too

i never get referrals from people at my school, it's fucked.

[ember crest]

Gen z kids cover eachothers referrals.
make up entire phonetrees with charactervoices, backgroundstories and everything.

It's hilarious actually.

[hearty island]

it's hilarious man

[ember crest]

But yeah, it comes with real risk:
It takes just one asshole to find out what is going on and they put your ass on a blacklist.
fekking your business over for years to come.

" Why do you want this job?"
-" Idk dude, I'm a major fan of not starving to death."

[true harness]

or, the company is growing and needs more talent

[ember crest]

it's anyones guess to me at this point.

I just like narrowing down options, didn't mean to pose a false dichotomy if that's what it sounded like. I do apollogise.

[hearty island]

referring people?

[ember crest]

lying on resume's with phoney referrals.

[hearty island]

oh fuck that, no.

[ember crest]

it's happening tho, on industrial scale.

[hearty island]

i mean. you need to be able to answer why you want to work for a company. that's a basic question.

[ember crest]

usually it's not the refered-reference that answers that question.
They usually fish for backgrounddetails and personalia, like a character/capacity check.

[hearty island]

hmmm, a lot of people refer nowadays. idk if they track everyone.

[ember crest]

I'd not advice doing so.
it's like play stupid games, win stupid prices.

On a certain distance, I do Admit, it is hilarious to me.

[hearty island]

aaaaand i just got a referral to amazon too

https://tenor.com/view/elrond-network-egld-egold-jackpot-one-arm-bandit-gif-23342114

[vapid jay]

I shoulda just went to trade school then self-teach programming tbh

[smoky quest]

nice!

[vapid jay]

Many say "You should go to college cause you can't learn teamwork softskills without!"

Nahh. A small YouTube channel with less than 5k subs, who seems very experienced and knowledgable about the industry, and also graduating from college said that,

Regarding teamwork softskills and "people skills", all those can be learnt by just working in hospitality, taking a trade job, and volunteering in your local area

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Is there a question?

[vapid jay]

Hmm not really. Just wanted to let my feelings about the college system out lol

[smoky quest]

ah fair enough.
You are wrong, but do what makes you happy

[vapid jay]

How am I wrong?

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

[hearty island]

Bro the amount of times you’ve said that is crazy. Also you’re absolutely right.

[smoky quest]

it's an optimized sentence that generates the least amount of friction and the least amount of ach'tually

[vapid jay]

Do you guys watch Fredrik Christenson? He talks a lot about the software industry

[vapid jay]

I know it has very little resistance, but how is it better than bootcamps?

[smoky quest]

Never heard of them. How many decades of experience do they have?
How many people have they hired?

[smoky quest]

you can't compare 10 weeks of bootcamp with 4-5 years of full time studies of the subjects with people who literally write books on the topic

[vapid jay]

I checked his LinkedIn and he has over 10+ experience. For some reason he never mentions it in his channel

[smoky quest]

Nice! Most youtubers don't have much experience in the things they talk about.
That said, if he recommends against college, I would doubt a lot about his experience and his mastery of the topic

[vapid jay]

He's not against college, he's just saying that it's not a hard requirement, but still says you should go

[hearty island]

College taught me how to learn

[smoky quest]

soooo today, every job ad has thousands of applicants, most of which with awesome degrees, great projects and relevant experience.
What would be your plan to not end up at the bottom of the pile?

[vapid jay]

I only wanted to know if it's possible to work on software projects while being on another career

I didn't go to trade school because there weren't any near me, so I went to mechanical engineering

[smoky quest]

the short answer is it's very unlikely

[vapid jay]

How is it unlikely?

[smoky quest]

it means it's not likely for people to work on software projects while being on another career

that puts you into the bottom freelancers, which is overcrowded with very skilled people who do that from countries with a very low COL

So it gives very little reason for anyone to hire you for these types of jobs

<@&831776746206265384> scam?

what is it about then?

[vapid jay]

So should I just focus more on mech engineering and just learn software as a hobby or side hustle?

[smoky quest]

if you want CS as a career, it's better to switch to a CS degree.
If you want CS in your career, you could look at areas that blend software engineering with mech eng

side hustle is just a long shot

[vapid jay]

Just curious, how many years of experience do you have?

[smoky quest]

I like to keep an air of mystery

[harsh river]

your air of mistery is easily penetrated

[glad basalt]

Its certainly possible, many physicists pivot to software engineering

[glad basalt]

meant to reply to this

[vapid jay]

@smoky quest Yeah I wanted to learn programming on the side because I do know a few people who graduated from other degrees but now works as fullstack developers, so I wanted to know if there is indeed a way, or they're just anomalies.

[glad basalt]

It would be fair to continue to consider them anomalies.

[smoky quest]

Look at it this way:

• If you want to be a doctor, the best route is to get a doctor degree
• If you want to be a physicist, the best route is a physicist degree
• If you want to be in CS, the best route is a CS degree
• If you want to be a dentist, the best route is a dentist degree

None of these things are done on the side as a side hustle.
Beyond that, it's a mater of a distance function. The further you are from the target, the more expensive the transition

[vapid jay]

Alright then. I guess it's just best to focus on my engineering career haha.

But if I do become curious about some of software, then I should learn a bit about them right? It might help in my engineering career

[smoky quest]

it's always great to learn about things! And learning about software could help you in your career too since you could do some computation or automation thanks to it

[vapid jay]

I'm new to this server, but I learned Python back in highschool in a short course. After highschool I worked a warehouse job for 2 years, but during those I got curious about computer hardware and I read Code by Charles Petzold and it fascinated me.

I got fired from that job lol, then took a year to break off from society and lived in the woods for a few months.

Now I wanna reintegrate into society, applied to engineering school and will start in 2 months. I guess I'm a bit older than the other kids, but I don't care.

But during all these spare time, I was reading a few chapters of Clean Code and was thinking how can these be used in small projects between friends.

[smoky quest]

This is a pretty nice story!
Don't worry about the age. There are plenty of people who transition later in life and do very well!

[vapid jay]

IMHO I think the other college students who took a gap year to experience "the real world" tend to be a bit more motivated, happier and hard-working in college. Most kids in my area at least went straight after highschool and treat it like another higher highschool lol

I'm very grateful that college is affordable in my country and I didn't actually need any scholarships

[vapid jay]

Thank you for your answer though

[vapid jay]

Just adding to already stated points: The thing with a CS degree is mostly you start with why and then transition into the how as opposed to BootCamps where you start with the how and then if it motivates you further, dig deeper into the why. Not that it is supper critical in a day to day software development, but having that additional know-how of the why will help you out of sticky situations.

[kindred oyster]

internships, good projects ( preferably if they solve some real world problem that you have , also having them deployed live would be great)

[potent spruce]

Hello. Im currently in 1st year (sem2) of my degree. We're asked to develop a software by the end of 2nd semester. What do I start off with? I've learned only python till date.

[foggy harbor]

maybe you can learn html, i heard it's usually used for making websites

[vapid jay]

Yeah for making websites not for "software"

[vapid jay]

C'mon ask your friends take help of someone in uni

[potent spruce]

Well, it's a team work ofc! Everyone is at the same level of learning

[vapid jay]

Take help from seniors

[peak halo]

The most recent research about a given topic does not necessarily constitute a new stage in that topic's development.

I was talking to a coworker when you sent this message, and I said "I'm discussing with someone whether or not 'latest' and 'state of the art' are synonymous", and she said "definitely not--the latest research might be crap."

[turbid bobcat]

Ok yeah I see what you mean, if a field stagnates for ex, the SOTA becomes older than the latest research

Tho it's a very subtle distinction, especially in software where stuff improves by the quarter

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t hear ‘sota’ much in industry.

[vapid jay]

Is there an off-topic or general channel where I can talk random things?

[fringe sphinx]

!topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[turbid bobcat]

I usually see it referring to new ML models and techniques

At least since I started working there's been a new major breakthrough in ML, say, every 6 months ?

[hollow ingot]

anybody here has a good resource on playwright?

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion

[peak halo]

For sure. (Also I thought this was #data-science-and-ml.)

[pastel thunder]

is cadence very well known?

[white relic]

Cadence Design Systems?

[pastel thunder]

yup

[white relic]

in electronic design, they're very well known

[pastel thunder]

like nvidia/ qualcomm comparable?

[white relic]

companies like nvidia and qualcomm use cadence software to design their stuff

[pastel thunder]

wow, didnt knew that

[bleak quail]

hello

[white relic]

why asking? interview/thinking of applying?

[pastel thunder]

that also justify why market cap has increased 50% in one year

[bleak quail]

im thinking of shifting to computer science from computer engineering

[pastel thunder]

yeah

[white relic]

Cadence is a big software company. They have a combination of tools that have been acquired over the years and tools that have been built in-house. There's some interesting innovative work that happens there occasionally which is mostly what I'm familiar with, but I imagine the day to day for most people is a little more mundane

I think it's a good place to work

But a bit on the bureaucratic side of things.

[pastel thunder]

cool, I saw its forbes top 100 places to work
THe JD says ML+embedded system

[white relic]

(to be clear, I have not worked there, only worked closely with them in the past)

[pastel thunder]

ML is good, I am unsure about embedded part

[white relic]

what do you mean?

[pastel thunder]

Had a call,
I think they are overestimating how much embedded i know

[white relic]

ah, I see

[pastel thunder]

need to learn embedded lmao
before interview

[white relic]

what's the title for the position?

[pastel thunder]

SENIOR ENGINEER
· Bachelors/Masters degree in EE/Computer Engineering with 1 to 4 years of work experience Excellent knowledge of computer architecture of embedded processors

· Proficient in programming with a good understanding of efficient implementation of high-performance algorithms and data structure design

· Must be familiar with one or more neural network frameworks such as TensorFlow/TFLITE, PyTorch, ONNX C/C++ and Python programming.

· Knowledge of scripting languages is a plus

· Strong communication skills – written and oral are required

· Experience in working with geographically diverse and cross-functional teams

· Experience in working with customers and resolving customer issues

· Understanding of Neural Networks / Deep Learning in areas of vision, speech are a plus

everything is fine except that, i mostly know theoritical embedded

[white relic]

interesting

[pastel thunder]

I am confussed about how ML will mix with embedded

[white relic]

if you're brushing up, I'd maybe lean more into the "computer architecture" part of that than the "embedded" part

that's what it looks like the overlap is

[pastel thunder]

i see

I learned mechatronics, micro robotics etc last year, i dont remember anything,

[white relic]

cadence is interested in making tools that enable people to design next generation AI/ML systems, which starts with architecting the hardware they run on.

[pastel thunder]

i see, i think they will be interested in GPU related stuff

[vapid jay]

Good@bleak quail

[white relic]

idk what specific kind of embedded systems they would be interested in but if you have a handle on how a GPU is put together in a general sense, I expect that would fit the bill.

[pastel thunder]

oh, ok, i will look into that

[white relic]

and what kind of things can be efficiently programmed on it (matrix multiplication, a lot of it)

that would be my guess

[pastel thunder]

yeah makes sense from ML point of view

[white relic]

memory hierarchy would be another thing to look into.

[pastel thunder]

also would this drift me away from SDE in future?
I am fine as long as I dont drift away from ML in future.

[white relic]

if you know how a machine's memory is organized, you know it pretty well

[white relic]

CDNS is a software company. If you go to work for them you will probably learn a lot about electronics but their business is writing software and enabling ML is a big part of that. I wouldn't be worried about drifting away.

[bleak quail]

is shifting to computer science from computer engineering a good idea?

[white relic]

Both are viable career options. I majored in CE, that was a while ago. They'll probably lead you down different paths. It's really about what direction you want to go with your career.
CS maybe pays slightly better starting out, I think it's more competitive though.

[white relic]

Why do you want to switch? How far along are you?

[bleak quail]

I'm currently in my first years, tbh I wanted to choose computer science but our university instead assigned me to computer engineering, at first after researching I thought computer engineering would be similar to comsci, mostly it kind of is, but most of the time I'm just studying physics and calculus, even I'm even more inclined towards programming.

Computer engineering is a good course because it's very broad, but I really wanted to focus on programming and software

I think theres 2 options I could choose:

• Shift to computer science and study programming there, but I lose the oppertunities i could get if i graduate comeng

or

• Stay in comeng and self study programming while at it.

I could try to proceed to computer science after graduating computer engineering but I think that would be too long

[white relic]

There's nothing wrong with either option. You can certainly self-study programming and it should be part of your CompE program as well (not as much as CS but still a significant part)

even if you were in CS, honestly, it's a good idea to self-study programming on the side
and do stuff they don't teach you in class

[bleak quail]

I already self study programming on the side, but I feel like our university is just teaching me things I already know

so I'm kind of just using their teachings as a roadmap for learning

I'm also worried of AI because of the devin stuff

[white relic]

you think it would be different in the CS program? like, you'd be learning more stuff you're unfamiliar with if you switched?

[bleak quail]

my peers tell me they're focusing more on programming and I've also compared the prospectuses

[white relic]

meh. nobody has yet shown devin to actually be capable of doing anything useful, except the people who made it

[bleak quail]

Yeah I guess that's the case, but what about in a few years? like maybe give it 7-8

[white relic]

the problem with that is the assumption that AI will continue to improve for the next 7-8 years at the same rate it has been for the last year

[bleak quail]

ehh i probably shouldnt be worrying about this cause im still in my first year haha

[white relic]

AI research took a recent big jump forward with the advent of LLMs

it's not clear that there are any other big jumps in the offing

[bleak quail]

I'm just looking for advice if i should really shift to comsci from comeng

[white relic]

I started out thinking I would do CS and I switched to CE because it seemed more interesting.
I'd be a hypocrite if I told you not to go the other way.

They're both totally viable career choices, it's really up to you.

[bleak quail]

If i may ask, what's your job right now? I'm studying to be a software developer, I'm just worried that it might be too hard to get in that industry with my current learning phase

[white relic]

I'm in post-CMOS electronics research. I took an unusual route though.

I used to work for a company that did avionics and radar and stuff for the military. I worked in both hardware and software there.

[bleak quail]

rn in my second semester, theres only 1 programming subject and so far weve only had 4 classes on it

weve just been focusing on calculus and physics

[white relic]

that's pretty typical for a first year engineering program

I'd expect to get into heavier CS stuff in 2nd year

[bleak quail]

I keep telling myself "why must i keep torturing myself with calculus when I can torture myself with programming"

rn programming's still enjoyable, but its really just surface level stuff

I heared somewhere that I can still learn about hardware in comsci through embedded systems

[wintry grove]

actually my uni focus on math , physics and logic design too

[wintry grove]

what language are u studying?

[bleak quail]

c and python

[vapid jay]

Is it bad that i've learned C++ and python in the span of 7 months? I feel like i'm slow

[hearty island]

...no it's great. what have you done with the languages?

[wintry grove]

omg thats the same here , we started with cpp and python

[bleak quail]

yeah we dove into cpp but only at the end of the first sem, nothing much really

I'm interested in learning js though, for web dev stuff, but maybe I should learn some python frameworks instead

[wintry grove]

what uni u study at?

[bleak quail]

our towns local uni lol

[wintry grove]

yeah me too . but my uni is on of the best universities in eygpt so im enjoying my learning path

[bleak quail]

I also wanted to collaborate on some software projects with people but my classmates arent really that passionate towards software

[bleak quail]

what side projects are you working on?

[hearty island]

guys we just got another referral

[wintry grove]

you can find people on discord

[bleak quail]

I'm working on a python file sorter but I'm figuring out how to make it not crash when i make it sort too many files

[wintry grove]

rn nothing , im trying to devlop my problem solving skill by doing lots of programs

[wintry grove]

did u studied oop?

[bleak quail]

nah, that's still for next year, but I'm advance studying it

[wintry grove]

wow ur learning path is almost the same of mine

thats so cool tho

[bleak quail]

yeah, I'm just wondering if i should really shift to computer science tho

[wintry grove]

wait are u studying cs or engineering?

[bleak quail]

computer engineering

[wintry grove]

thats ccol

[wintry grove]

im studying software engineering

[bleak quail]

whats yours?

[wintry grove]

software engineering

[bleak quail]

ahh alright, wanna work on some software side projects sometime?

[wintry grove]

yeah sure , what type of projects?

[vapid jay]

I wanna

[bleak quail]

not sure, maybe some beginner level stuff, my cousin asked me if he could make a program that can read a doctors handwriting lmaoo

[wintry grove]

guys if any of u is studying logic design and want to solve some sheets i got lots of it

[hearty island]

i like the cat meme

[bleak quail]

send em to me

[wintry grove]

lol

[wintry grove]

okay

[vapid jay]

Teach me something too

[short carbon]

hello

[vapid jay]

Hi there

[short carbon]

i'm new in this group

[vapid jay]

What you know? Are you completely new?

[short carbon]

i'm programming in python

[wintry grove]

hey

[short carbon]

not much but I know something

there is a timer sorry

[vapid jay]

When did you start python?

[short carbon]

i like programming python

[hearty island]

how do i run sql on a mac? oh shit wrong spot. my bad guys.

[vapid jay]

Download windows on it

[short carbon]

i have a question

[fringe sphinx]

Can you stop the trolling?

[vapid jay]

Lmao

[fringe sphinx]

A. What kind of ‘sql’? (There’s different types of dbs) B. #databases

[short carbon]

is it possible in VLC to run audio?i mean to put my microphone there

@vapid jay

[fringe sphinx]

Ask over in off topic, this is careers channel.

[vapid jay]

Come here #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[hearty island]

this end to end project i'm watching uses MS SQL server. which i'm assuming i can't use on my mac

[short carbon]

oh sorry

[hearty island]

probably what the video does is replicable in mysql

[fringe sphinx]

Sql server: You can do it in a docker container, or a remotely hosted sql server, or a vm. Lots of options, but ask over in #databases

[hearty island]

thanks for the help! you're awesome billybobby.

[ivory helm]

Hello

[hearty island]

YES, I GOT THE REFERRAL TO CAPITAL ONE!

[hearty island]

"We’ve received your submission. Thank you for applying to Capital One.

Keep your eyes peeled: a recruiter will contact you shortly either by email or phone to discuss next steps. Please remember to check your Spam or junk folders. " 🔥

i swear, referrals are like cheat codes. excellent way to get your foot in the door along with a well-tailored resume.

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> ads

[lethal palm]

How much do i need to know or learn to get a job in backend python

[regal axle]

https://roadmap.sh/backend this is a good list of topics. You don't need to know them all. And you don't need to know it all in depth. But being aware of most is good.

Then the questions become: what education do you have? What country do you live in?

If you don't have a CS degree, get one. Ideally. It isn't required. But it does help a ton.

[lethal palm]

I have done most of them and few laft to learn

[lethal palm]

and it will take a lot for time to get a cs degree now

[regal axle]

Are you trying to change jobs? How old are you (roughly, I don't need exact age if you are not comfortable with that)?
And yes, getting enough qualification to get a job takes time

[hearty island]

yay, i just got a referral to IBM!

[lethal palm]

no I am not changing job because i am jobless currently and i am 24

[smoky quest]

I know folks who started school later than that and are having a great career now

[hearty island]

hey, i mean. i practically missed a year of my own education due to health issues. and i'm still gunning for stuff.

graduating college a year late cuz i failed comp sci freshman year at UB. i mean i didn't fail, i got a C+

[lethal palm]

In my country it's kind of complicated

[regal axle]

That’s part of why I asked what country you are in. That has a bigger influence on things over most other things.
But also, it is still true that you can still get a degree.

[lethal palm]

Oh sorry i might mise that. I am from Bangladesh

Like if i want to graduate now i have to spen 8-10 years

In my country they want degree for everything and still it's hard to get a job and i learn python and here they use php and nodejs for backend that is problem for me i don't want to learn php or node right now because i want to get good in python first and appy in a different countries to get a job

[smoky quest]

without degree nor experience or advanced skills, it will be quite a challenge to find a job remotely from another country

[hearty island]

fuck it, we're going for the big fish. i'm gonna try to network with someone from Meta too.

[lethal palm]

Advanced skills?

[smoky quest]

things that is highly specialized and worth hiring someone in another country. So assume that is a skill that is very hard to find in their own country

[hearty island]

like health insurance data analytics for example. like segmented in a specific industry?

[lethal palm]

I am willing to change location if they ask me to lol.

[hearty island]

health insurance domain knowledge is rather rare

[smoky quest]

I had more in mind something like some hard to find skills like building a compiler that runs on the GPU. Something where there is only maybe one person in the country that knows about and wrote the book on it

[hearty island]

ah.

[smoky quest]

It will be difficult to emigrate without education. It makes it more difficult to get visas

[smoky quest]

definitely too!

[hearty island]

yay the meta user accepted my req! honestly idk if i'm good enough for faang.

[lethal palm]

If a company hire me shouldn't they give me the visa?

[smoky quest]

Countries give you visas, not companies

[hearty island]

inb4 billybobby comes and yells at me to be more confident

[smoky quest]

The bar is pretty low for faang. You should be more confident

[hearty island]

are you sure?

[smoky quest]

I never lie.

[lethal palm]

I look into some visa there is a employee visa that is requested by the company that will hire me. Or it doesn't work like that?

[white relic]

And also hardly transferable across country borders...

[hearty island]

well, let's hope you're right because they just said they're down to give me a referral

[smoky quest]

they sponsor you, but it doesn't give you a visa.
Degrees will give you access to some quotas and qualifications

[lethal palm]

Oh i see that makes sense

[hearty island]

yea... bad example on my part.

[regal axle]

They hire so many people from all verticals. So yes, they hire top talent. But not everyone is. And not everyone starts at the top

[lethal palm]

I know some English will that not be enough 😅😅

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/peace-was-never-an-option-gif-16631992813893804773

[smoky quest]

yeah, I know people there.

And also look at it from a numbers perspective. Each one of them has like tens of thousands of engineers. They cannot, by definition, only hire the top 1% because they employ far more than that percentage of engineers

[hearty island]

that's what i thought too. and also the exit opps would be insane.

[regal axle]

It definitely helps. But it alone is not enough. You need to give them a reason to hire you. And speaking English isn’t enough of a reason. You need to find some topic and go really deep into it. Create a reason to hire you. That can be a degree. Or some project you made / participated in. But you have to remember that there is a lot of competition. Other people speak English. Other people know code. More than 1 person gets hired. But you still need to give them a reason why you are worth it

[lethal palm]

Can you look at my GitHub profile and give me some feedback?

[regal axle]

Can you send your account?

[fringe sphinx]

Sitting through a college tour, 30 minutes of ‘ai is not coming to take your job’ and ‘employers are still hiring swe’s’ 😂

[hearty island]

i just got the referral link to meta. while filling in the referral for IBM. 💀

i'm coming full circle clearly.

inb4 damian @ big tech

[lethal palm]

https://github.com/mukit-hasan/
I changed my username recently sorry

[hearty island]

might want a more professional pfp

[brazen sky]

I wonder why the whole server in vc rn ._.

[lethal palm]

Ya working on that

[hearty island]

one time i saw the entire mod team in vc. i was like ???

[brazen sky]

Lmao

They were probably doing a meeting

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stand-balance-wise-cat-top-cat-gif-3520757

[brazen sky]

Car

[regal axle]

At the bottom of your landing page, you have stats on how much you do on GitHub. It gives you a C. … maybe just don’t have that part. Remove that widget.
As for your repos, they are fine. But nothing special. Nothing in-depth nor unique. It shows that you know how to do stuff. But it doesn’t show a real specialty or hireable skill

[regal axle]

They have secret channels and chats. Maybe it was after a meeting?

[brazen sky]

maybe

Just check the vc rn The whole server on it

[lethal palm]

Ok 👌 i will try to improve it

[spare sandal]

Does anyone know if there is a place where I can share something I’ve made?

[vapid jay]

@brazen sky six foot guy married himselg

[brazen sky]

LMAFO WHAT R U DOING HERE

[vapid jay]

typing

[brazen sky]

Check this out

print ("hello world")

[vapid jay]

nothing lady

[brazen sky]

:0

[vapid jay]

python
my_variable = 10

[brazen sky]

When u learned python 0_o

[vapid jay]

I'm learning still lol

[brazen sky]

WHY U DIDN'T TELL ME IN FRIST PLACE!!!!!

[vapid jay]

idk (but DMS)

[fringe sphinx]

This is #career-advice , plz use one of the off topic channels.

[brazen sky]

am sorry i just joined yesterday and i didn't know a lot here lol

[pastel thunder]

cool, whats the strategy behind so many referrals? are you also getting interviews?

[hearty island]

Fishbowl. I think they’re being processed, I haven’t gotten any interviews yet.

lots of cold messaging.

[pastel thunder]

is it the same cold message i shared or an improvised one, lmao

[verbal raptor]

hi

how are you?

im fine

🤫 🧏‍♂️

[hearty island]

which one?

SON OF A GUN, I just got an interview for IBM!!!

[turbid bobcat]

Interesting

How does it work ?

[hearty island]

it's a community of professionals that you can DM and ask for referrals. everyone needs to use their work email to actually authenticate themselves as a working professional.

[turbid bobcat]

Nice! Good luck with IBM.

I have a referral at Microsoft but still haven't managed an interview >.>

[smoky quest]

describing blind?

[hearty island]

exactly like blind. i'm also on blind too. blind's given me referrals for servicenow and capital one.

[cinder fossil]

on blind do you have to sign up with a work email

[hearty island]

correct

[cinder fossil]

:( but what if your company is too smol to hide your identity through it

[hearty island]

meh, i would do it anyways.

it's not worth missing out on possible opportunities.

what do you guys think? i looked into the place and it looks legit. should i try giving it a shot?

[cinder fossil]

oh I'm not interested in better opportunities I'm just curious what kind of topics people discuss there lol

[hearty island]

it's mostly complaining tbh.

[smoky quest]

mostly shitposting

[cinder fossil]

do you know any communities that talk more about actual technical problems/general industry jazz

[hearty island]

nah not really. recursive prob does.

[smoky quest]

This one does.
There are other communities on matrix or slack as well

[hearty island]

this is #career-advice

[south vessel]

Whoops, I was reckless.

[hearty island]

nah dw, happens to me too.

[pastel thunder]

probability of implementing AVL tree in interview?

seems harder than tree/trie etc

[smoky quest]

should be on the extremely rare side of things.
Interviews shouldn't be about whether or not you know a specific thing

So while they may ask you to implement something to rotate specific nodes, asking you to implement an AVL tree would not be a good assessment of a candidate

[hearty island]

i've applied to IBM so many damn times, i never knew networking was the answer

[hearty island]

how well can you explain what you're doing or what you have done?

anyways, three roles applied for Meta via a referral.

let's see what happens!

[turbid bobcat]

uhmmm, that question is better answered by looking at the job posting I think, maybe you can infer what to focus on from what they state that they're looking for

[turbid bobcat]

meta looks notoriously hard, please teach me your ways if you get an itnerview

[hearty island]

bro there's no way i clear it lmaoooo. i don't think i'll get an interview.

[turbid bobcat]

they ask for phd interns half the time, senior people the other half

[hearty island]

.... i haven't even graduated college yet. i'm graduating in may from a non-target.

[turbid bobcat]

ah you know how it is, it's just a wish list, how many experienced phd people would be willing to do an internship

[hearty island]

nah it's a full time role. tired of internships.

[turbid bobcat]

yeah just using internships as an example

[hearty island]

ah, ok

[turbid bobcat]

because that's legit all I've been seing from them, I get these glassdoor reccomendations in my email

[hearty island]

well, hey. if i get in, i'd heavily consider referring people from here.

[turbid bobcat]

: D

[gritty rivet]

Found this interesting... We've had some discussions in this chat about how "engineer" has different meanings in different countries and apparently in Canada it's pretty complicated: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsCAD/comments/1be78ut/are_software_engineers_not_legally_engineers_in/

[hearty island]

haha, already got a notif saying they won't be moving forward w one of my Meta roles

[turbid bobcat]

At least they responded to you (😭)

Today I got rejected by Nvidia, as I'm learning CUDA - I didn't even know I applied to Nvidia, and I did not even apply to a lot of companies

[hearty island]

no they didn't respond lol i just happened to check.

[turbid bobcat]

Ah you'll receive the email on a couple days I think. Similar thing happened to me with Microsoft

Idk of working for these big companies is very rewarding tho, a lot of bureaucracy. But I also think that startups can be a bit of a drain. There must be a sweet spot somewhere.

[balmy spade]

There is. The small company that isn't a startup or the large company that isn't a technology company. Even more tradeoffs for both.

[hearty island]

Like the one I’m working with now

[deft herald]

Do both

[cosmic lodge]

I'd change to javascript cuz u can use one language for both frontend and backend.

[vapid jay]

hey, i have a question for you guys...i started coding in python and im getting bored/tired as theres nothing for me to do, i'll only make money with this skill once i'm experienced, in around a year or so right? what can i do during this year of learning and practising without getting bored? i like to set short terms goals that'll get me closer to the ultimate goal, but with python what can i do on a small scale?

[cosmic lodge]

do projects that would make u money or make ur life easier, or projects / apis on github that other people may use

at some point u kinda stop caring about learning and u just want to make stuff that works cuz u have projects in mind (ideally) that u want to finish

if u watch anime, for example, u might make an anime-related api or an anime discord bot or anime quote generator, doesn't really matter, just something that personally interests u or means something to u

[austere urchin]

Hi

I have an idea of a project to put in my portfolio.
I thought I could get your advise
I was thinking of an optimized inventory management system that uses both linear algebra and dsa

It would be full stack project whose backend servers and databases will be backed by AWS or GCP

[cosmic lodge]

sleep until that time and then send the notification
sleeping on the background could mean various things
u can leave it running 24/7 but if u actually want it in the background there's steps u could take such as registering it as a service or putting it in a autostartup directory, and there's ways to hide the console if necessary.

[solar garden]

yea but the PC needs to be on for the time to actually pass using sleep?(I delete the msg cuz i posted in the wrong channel)

[cosmic lodge]

Yeah ofc otherwise u gotta run it on a server that's running 24/7

unless u store the date in a database and then parse it when the pc boots on, then u don't

[solar garden]

is there any way to make it send a notification at a specific time in ur timezone?

[cosmic lodge]

yea there's libraries u can use but i would look into using datetime library and figuring out what kind of notification system u want first for alerts

[solar garden]

alr, ty a lot

[fringe pine]

Hello guys is learning back end web worth it now after ai now make find job hard ?

[smoky quest]

yes

[pine sleet]

yes. ai is not taking over skilled SWE jobs yet

[balmy spade]

Will AI change things? Yes! It already has, for decades! Will it "replace SWE jobs next [some timeframe]"? Not at the current pace.

[vapid jay]

tbh, I don't see it happening . . . .

It's like. . .How much does it cost to train a language model that can consistently deliver on software, offer maintenance as well, and do it in such a way that you at BEST can have some random idiot generate the software via prompting or REALISTICALLY have a small team of developers prompting and supervising the agent? Unless the answer to that question is : Less than it costs to hire a developer, its pointless.

The answer we keep getting is : "AI will eventually get better." and like yeah, and Achilles will eventually outpace the turtle's last position.

We have the tech to replace every construction worker on the planet, we don't because its too expensive to get a robot, not to mention the liability questions a robot raises.

Then the next question : If prompted items cannot be copyrighted, do you actually own anything an A.I. robot generates? No? So, how is your company defensible? Not to mention. . .? If you can make a tech company for less than a dev, everyone can, so how is your business defensible now?

It's not a matter of "Can a machine do this better" its a question of : "Why would I even want to hire that mechanized menace?"

[regal axle]

I just got another rejection 😦
I have 3 more chances to get in 😦
(school apps for PhD)

[whole flare]

rejections are just part of the process, don't get too disheartened by it

[regal axle]

I mean … sure. But unlike job apps, I can’t exactly send in more applications. They were due when they were due. It would be idiotic to wait another year to apply

[hearty island]

the ibm role is in des moines, iowa.... i'm in NY. i'd have to relocate.

meh sounds like a future damian problem if i actually get the position

[whole flare]

I guess so, just don't worry too much if you don't get it. Just try to think of what your next steps are if you can't get in.

[vapid jay]

what languagedo i learn to have high chance to get aj job

[cosmic lodge]

python javascript java

[whole flare]

fairly subjective question, it depends on the industry and role you want to do

[vapid jay]

howa about cpp???????

[cosmic lodge]

that works too

I'd try to learn at least 2 languages tbh

[regal axle]

I mean of course. But I did delay myself by a year just for this. It would mean I’m a year behind. And that ,,, isn’t actually that big of a deal. Not great. Not ideal. Very frustrating. But oh well.
I mean ,,, go get a job. But the market is rough. And ideally, I can get a job in the area of what I want, so I can potentially go back and get that degree

[hearty island]

guys. should i try to get a referral to Cisco?

[hearty island]

YES GUYS I GOT A REFERRAL TO AMAZON

[vapid jay]

I can see the future.

damian_78 : "Dear friend, thanks to you I got the job at Amazon. I will never forgive you."

[hearty island]

hahaha why do you say that 😭. Are you implying I wouldn’t like it at Amazon?

[regal axle]

Amazon is a either the best place in the world to work, or the worst. It is all based on your manager.

[vapid jay]

tbh, Amazon is too massive and too varied to think that everyone is just being grind into the ground like coffee beans, its just that the stories are out there for a reason so be mindful of that I guess? And if Jeff Bezos gets his eyes on you, you're either going to have a very good time or a very bad time.

[regal axle]

It is based on your manager. And there isn't a good way to know before hand if you got a good draw. But overall, it can be a good place to work. Well - not all positions. Warehouse workers are treated like dirt on the side of the road. But otherwise ,,, it is fine.

There are a ton of horror stories if you really want to look them up. Lots of things can go wrong. And in Amazon, getting PIPd is the same as being fired. (heh pip) I mean, some people make it out of PIP but it is rare

[balmy spade]

Amazon's culture is quite focused toward goal, action, and measurable results. It is a grind. The stories all have extremes. That doesn't change the culture of that company.

[vapid jay]

My kinda company.

[regal axle]

Again, this is a problem of "company being really big" but each team and team type has different culture. Some are very grind. And others are very chill. And you don't have a ton of say on what team you go to. You can in some cases. But in general, no

[vapid jay]

However, the question is : Will I see benefits proportional to my work? I.e. If every day is day 1, am I being paid as such? Questions I ask myself is all.

[regal axle]

The pay is good. The benefits are good. Golden handcuff company

[balmy spade]

Sure, I guess? I had all the say in which team I went to. I said "no thanks"

[regal axle]

hehe fair

[vapid jay]

Did you say it like they do on Suits?

[balmy spade]

I don't know what that means. I had an offer, listened to the pitch, and made it as far as "Well this remote position is hybrid", and stopped wasting their time. Said "No thanks" and when asked why I explained they shouldn't list "full time remote" for hybrid positions.

[hearty island]

Suits lol reads complicated document of 30 pages in 5 seconds

[vapid jay]

Ahhh television. . . .

Everyone used to seem so brilliant and so good looking before I realized that was all comic book bullshit.

[vapid jay]

Oh, I was just sort of hoping you'd heard about that show tbh. ^^; But, It's impressive that you stood your ground.

[hearty island]

anyways, i applied for the amazon role through the internal referral!

[vapid jay]

Good job, Damian!

[hearty island]

ty ty

[balmy spade]

It's not something I'd expect someone new to the workforce to do with ease. :) Not my first rodeo.

[hearty island]

i'll be doing my online interview for IBM tomorrow. and then i'll be going on spring break to argentina!

[vapid jay]

So just to be clear : Never take bait and switches for position parameters either? I understand not taking bait and switches with pay having done sales in college.

[hearty island]

just gonna be casually applying tomorrow, not relying on fishbowl. ofc i'll pull up if i see anything interesting tho.

[vapid jay]

Have fun mate, I'mg onna skip spring break this year. I finally got my groove back and I don't even need the looming threat of not passing to do so anymore. It's like, I've finally started becoming the person I've always wanted.

[balmy spade]

You have to take your position into consideration. It's rarely as easy as "Don't ever do this". In my case, I was already employed and I can afford to be picky with offers.

[hearty island]

yea i wanted to not do a vacation for spring break tbh, but my family insisted. i'm graduating in may and they wanted to do something fun.

[hearty island]

preocts, i'm worried about my friend. he recently got a role for Inoxoft and I can't find anything about the company. worried he's getting scammed.

[balmy spade]

Not sure what I could do there.

[hearty island]

not much tbh. i keep trying to tell him that it's a scam but he's desperate for a role

[balmy spade]

Why do you think it's a scam? What are the red flags?

[hearty island]

it's an outsourced company that has small projects and there's like no public info about them

the interview process was just "do you know the software engineering life cycle"

[umbral frigate]

This inoxoft? https://inoxoft.com

[hearty island]

yea

idk hopefully it's legit? i don't want him to get fucked over

[umbral frigate]

I'm pretty sure, 90%, it's legit. It depends what type of offer your friend received.

[balmy spade]

They've been around for nine years.

[hearty island]

ah, then he must be good. he said he got a swe offer.

[umbral frigate]

It depends. Was it an in-person/email/phone offer?

[hearty island]

not sure, i'll see what he says.

[umbral frigate]

You can never be 100% sure, but you can always be cautious. Make sure he doesn't give away too much sensitive information that would probably be unnecessary for his position anyway.

[vapid jay]

Ayyy, it's the FOMO elf!

[umbral frigate]

Yes indeed. Both the elf and I have FOMO 😄

[vapid jay]

Tf is that kenjaku pfp 😭

[echo cape]

is there a specific rule of thumb as for when it too late to apply for a summer internship?

I'm a senior and i've been very serious about getting any/whatever computer software engineering internship I can get; but this has also lead me to delay some of my applications for want of perfection and now some of those listings have expired... Which, has me in panic mode. I want a solid foundation to my career.