career-advice

[regal axle]

I mean, 2 of the schools that told me no, I already kinda expected them to say no. But still; there is a difference between expecting it and getting it

[buoyant seal]

Any certifications that can help on the market?
ps. later wanna focus on ML/AI, but its too early to ask for that
you would really want to get CS/math/STEM degree for that then. Because it is very strongly asked from data scientists/ML people.
That's best "certificate" to get.
Data scientists are often asked even for Master's degree and higher.

Any certifications that can help on the market?
besides that AWS Certificates do have value on this path
AWS Developer, AWS Machine Learning looks obviously compatible.
few others like Big Data, Solutions Architect look fine to me too on this path

assuming we will merge this advice into this, u would wish concentrating also onto data engineering skill set a lot.

hubt — 09/22/2022
i warn everyone that wants to be in AI/ML: you spend a huge amount of time on data validation, cleanup, and analysis. and generally a lot less time than you'd think on the actual AI/ML part. unless your company has very mature data management and data pipelines(very few companies do), expect to spend a lot more time on data engineering than AI/ML
for data engineering path again, CS degree + Cloud provider official certifications are nice to have.

Besides that, regardless of a chosen path, will be nice if u will read Code Complete as it is book benefiting developers on any path.
This book has a lot of recommendations where to improve next

https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Data-Engineering-Robust-Systems/dp/1098108302
Also... haven't read one but it was highly praised multiple times. I believe it will be beneficial in your path i guess.

https://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Kent-Beck/dp/0321146530
https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Testing-Principles-Practices-Patterns/dp/1617296279
Also i always recommend unit testing to learn eventually. If u will get it, u will reach for sure level of an... average developer in Python 😊
U just can't survive in python without it in commercial development. U will have far more satisfaction out of your job if u will write unit tested code.

[high coral]

Question. Imagine you have just hired a new software engineer / developer. Approximately how long do you allow the developer to familiarize themselves with the software / systems / co-worker. I've heard that most larger corporations have about a 4-6 month ramp-up period until they expect high performance from the employee.

does this sound accurate?

[buoyant seal]

It depends on a size of a project. Scope of developer responsibilities.

Let's assume it is small service out of 30k code lines.
4 weeks will be even too much potentially, but if code is extremely dirty, I guess may be.
Highly likely may be even a week will be enough

Let's assume we got hired into DevOps engineering team
For project out of 100 repositories
And responsibilities all over different stuff
And zero documentation.
I would say... Half of a year u will be just getting used to it and discovering what exists and how to debug it at all. Potentially a year

[high coral]

hmmm, that makes sense. It's dependent on the size of code bases, systems, etc. Thanks

i remember at my internship it took me about 2-3 weeks to get used to all the systems, get acclimated to the new work environment, establish a connection with co-workers, etc.

2-3 until i felt like a productive worker, i may even add

[buoyant seal]

It depends on

• a size of a code base.
• Amount of made effort to made more friendly development environment
• presence of unit tests in thorough coverage
• presence of static types
• design of a code toward more clean state with minimal complexity

[buoyant seal]

Same project let's say having 30k lines, rather small one
With all the mentioned good arch, tests and typed present can be started working efficiently within matter of hour/day
Same project in extremely dirty architecture entangled with messy message queue implementation, no unit tests or types will make weeks to get familiar with it
And even if u became familiar u will not be able to work with it efficiently until refactored previous mess
It will take knowledge how to run and debug project entirely in order to start moving in it (in unit tested code it is often possible working only knowing small part of code app because u have multiple easy entrypoints to approach code base in small scopes)

[fringe sphinx]

Also the task… some problems only involve a small segment of a code base, whereas others have broad reach. You could have small tasks in a big project that are newbie friendly or hard.

[high coral]

i understand. i just wasn't sure if there was an industry standard for new employees.

thanks!

[fringe sphinx]

In my team, I think it’s 3-6 months to be comfortable with the code base, and we’re very purposeful about how we introduce it: someone can be productive pretty quickly, even if their understanding is narrow

[buoyant seal]

• Amount of made effort to made more friendly development environment
  we can extend this thought that

• pressence of CI code how to test and built project makes it more dev friendly. Often it can be autobuilding project and u will not be needing to discover exact procedures. Or u can just read from CI code how to run tests locally

• Presence of docker-compose can allow easily raising local dev environment despite all necessary dependencies, like postgres, mongo, celery processes, elasticsearch, s3 minio and etc

• Presence of documentation as a code can make again life easier. In python it is usually Sphinx + Autodoc used to make it efficiently.

• Pressence of configured infra environement with comfortable easy access to logging/metrics/tracing information regarding running application in Staging and Production environment can make even further easier life to work with

  • P.S. it is common configuring Sentry for easy error catching and management ^_^

• Presence of automated deployment system for application at some point simplifies working with it too

• Even just having good logging context rich with different values can make stuff way easier to debug stuff in both staging/prod and unit tests. And lack of it or even worse... silencing logs, can make... extra pains.

All this stuff (unit testing and etc) can compensate... complexity of working with the app. And therefore... lack of all the points at a large amount of code can make a point of no return when even author forgot how to work with the code base and not able to untangle result.

[high coral]

I've never really been exposed to dockers and containers, but i understand what they do/how they work. should i go do some small side project that includes dockers so i have experience with them?

just trying to gage how common they are, i guess

[buoyant seal]

if you work in any web related environment related to deploying to Linux servers like Backend development, Data engineering, Full stack development, then defininitely yes. U should.
Or even if aren't one of them, but needing to raise locally for some reason backend services, databases for your other app sphere, then still should.
https://www.amazon.com/Docker-Deep-Dive-Nigel-Poulton/dp/1521822808 recommending this structured learning with this awesome author.

[high coral]

thanks for your insights 🙂

[worldly gyro]

Wow your messages were incredibly helpful, thank You very very much

I will definetly buy the books

[buoyant seal]

You are welcome. My message was full of theoretical knowledge advices.
I will warn in addition that all theory remains theory unless practiced in projects.
Theory is just a learning speed boost many times for learning into a right direction.
U need practicing making projects in order for theoretical knowledge becoming practical knowledge available on reflex and persisting in your memory.

https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
anything u practice will help you to code better.
also since u go with AI/ML
https://www.kaggle.com/ community can be explored, as full of AI/ML stuff

[austere harbor]

@wicked condor unblock me bro

[ebon root]

Do you guys recommend any good courses on data science?

[smoky quest]

It's a better question for #data-science-and-ml . Check out also the pinned resources

[keen obsidian]

Question, I’m a uni student studying CS with a major in CS and a minor in networking and security, I would like to get into the cyber security industry, and I’m wondering how I can better prepare myself for a easier time for getting into the industry quickly in a couple years?

Also what would some of the job titles be?

[torpid birch]

That moment when you get a 50 Euros raise because it's "All they can do at the moment"... Honestly focusing on webdev at this point and just praying i can find a better job.
Realistically studying 3-4h a day how long should it take to start applying for entry level full stack jobs?
Assuming i already have Python basics and been working with the language for almost 2 years now.

[wanton pendant]

Can anyone recommend some sub-orgs to apply for in GSoC under the "Python software foundation" banner? My interests are in ML and DS.

[hidden warren]

does anyone here know how to use pygame i have an rect and that rect needs to move from place to place but the old place needs to disappear so its moving
ive tried redrawing it
but the old one stays

[fringe sphinx]

Open a help thread #❓｜how-to-get-help

[fringe sphinx]

No measurement of how long will be meaningful. But if you ca build apps with flask or fastapi or Django already, then I’d be applying now.

[hidden warren]

i found a way just changing the color to the background

[tepid marsh]

anyone like know any companys highering free lancers for python

but like i only know how to use python for research..

[echo escarp]

oh no i have my cs test and i hv to learn dictionary lists loops

L

[tepid marsh]

RIP

[gritty rivet]

Freelancing is near-impossible unless you live in a place where $5/hour is good money and/or you have outstanding skills and a strong professional network.

You can go look around on Upwork and Fiverr and see for yourself what people are looking to hire, what they're paying, and how experienced the competition is

[tepid marsh]

tbh 5$/hr is good to me

im still in high schl and i got no bills to pay yet

[gritty rivet]

So peek at those sites and see what you can do but don't expect it to be easy. For most people a normal high school job will be more practical

[tepid marsh]

the place i live in doesnt allow people under 18 to get a job, also even if i do its dangerous to even go out tbh. rough neighbour hood

[near ocean]

ask your parents for an allowance then if money is the main concern

[lofty zephyr]

Hey there, question for you folks. Anyone here transition from a tech adjacent role into SWE? I use python most days for my job , but I'm not a full time dev. I have a pretty solid understanding of python, and some other languages, but I'm having trouble figuring out when I'm ready to make the "jump". Any word of advice?

[abstract lark]

lemonade stand

[gritty rivet]

You won't really know until someone hires you. But if you want to share an anonymized resume screenshot we can give feedback

When I made the jump from help desk to Python dev, my portfolio was just a text-based based game and a simple REST API built in Flask. Granted that was two years ago but I was surprised it only took me two months to find a great job with that, building APIs with Python all day, 100% remote and pretty well paid

[lofty zephyr]

thanks for your response. Wow okay, to me it sounds like I'm underestimating myself then. I will work on my resume to demonstrate my strengths in coding more and go from there. Thank you!

Also semi-related to my question, how do you deal with poor practices related to development. (or in my case, NO practices). My worry is that while I'm developing at work, I'm inheriting bad habits before I go into a true SWE role.

For instance, I'm the only person on my team familiar with coding. We have no source control, no standards, sparse documentation, and no rules. Just a bunch of python scripts in folders. Many scripts are actually quite important for our business practices too. Does anyone have any recommendations that I can do individually to significantly improve standards at work?

[gritty rivet]

There are a bunch of beginner-friendly books on using Git and GitHub. Learning that stuff is endless to me but the main secret is practice.

Just having one generic repo for all those scripts would be a lot better than nothing

[hearty island]

there are about 357 people from my school at jpmc
and here i was thinking my school had a mid network

aaaaand i'm out of connection requests. is linkedin premium worth it?

[mortal kite]

How does one respond appropriately to the news that one's employer decided to save a couple thousand dollars by letting go of you rather than saving hundreds of thousands of dollars by actually practicing good finops practices?

[fringe sphinx]

Leave graciously, and update your LinkedIn.

Work your network, have lunch and dinner with different people every day for the next week.

[mortal kite]

"have lunch and dinner with different people every day" won't be hard given I usually eat alone.

do we have good resources on here for resume updating? I will admit I got complacent and haven't updated my resume since 2018.

That's on me

[fringe sphinx]

Update it, redact it, and post it here.

Jakes Resume template is popular (google it)

[near ocean]

its also in the pins

[fringe sphinx]

My general tip on resume writing is: Order of words matter. A screener looks at the beginning of the bullets first, so use that wisely: don't expect them to read a full sentence if the beginning isn't interesting. For a SWE, those first words should be technical

(easier said than done, I know)

[mortal kite]

"I did hello world in Haskell, so the language is now on my resume" something tells me that is not the approach to take.

[fringe sphinx]

Nah, something like: "Developed chat system in Haskell to replace legacy Java code base, implementing system tests and a modernized CI/CD process" or some stuff like that

[mortal kite]

Looking at required skills for the current most-likely role: "Have experience with developing and consuming REST APIs"

Well, I spent the past five years on the API Gateway team and was an influential voice in the internal REST standards at that company...

[mortal kite]

At this point do I keep my high school on my resume, or can I afford to drop it now.

[hearty island]

jesus the alumni network at my school has their head buried in the sand

[hearty island]

have you graduated college?

[mortal kite]

a long time ago

[hearty island]

so why keep your high school on your resume then?

[mortal kite]

because my resume is from 2018 and my job coach said it was a good idea back then

[hearty island]

i disagree, but i’m not a job coach

[mortal kite]

also, at what point in the process do I disclose my diagnosis? (adhd)

[hearty island]

uh i wouldn’t

unless it’s mandated that you disclose it, ie a government position or something

[gritty rivet]

If you're in the US and think you could benefit from reasonable accommodations under the ADA (or similar law in another country), that is the only reason I would disclose and only after being fully onboarded

[mortal kite]

I currently have accommodations under the ADA, yes.

[gritty rivet]

Ok, then like I said just wait until you really need to bring it up. While it would be illegal in theory for them to not hire you on that basis, the reality is that it can only hurt to bring it up early

[deft basin]

what is the avarage wage for software engineers

[deft herald]

If you took the mean across all SWE's in the world, that number would mean nothing

[deft herald]

Can you narrow down your question at all?

[gritty rivet]

There's plenty of data on that a web search away. Glassdoor, levels.fyi etc.

[deft basin]

for like a software engineer with a degree that is looking to work at a company how much would you expect to get at your first job

[true harness]

If you took the mean across all SWE's in the world with a degree that is looking to work at a company, that number would mean nothing

[white relic]

where in the world do you live?

[deft herald]

How much experience? What city?

[true harness]

0 experience, according to their messages: "first job"

[deft herald]

oh didn't catch the first job

[deft basin]

london with just got a degree

[deft basin]

what website is that btw?

[deft herald]

levels.fyi

It's fairly accurate for this industry

[white relic]

levels.fyi always seems high to me when people quote it

[near ocean]

They definitely are

[deft herald]

They usually include total comp though

[deft basin]

k thanks for ur help

and also if you want to do more coding what would be better for a degree computor science or software engineering

[whole flare]

swe probably

[deft herald]

I would have said CS 🤷

[true harness]

it doesn't matter too much. there's so much overlap between the two

[whole flare]

fair ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[white relic]

CS degrees are more common than SWEs and may be more familiar to recruiters and hiring managers.

It seems to me a lot of what you cover in a CS degree is really SWE. Most CS programs have more in common with engineering than the sciences.

Well, ok, I'm probably speaking with more confidence than I actually have with that "most". It's a vague impression.

[deft basin]

ok, thats helpful thanks

[tender sun]

Hello , what advice and tips would you guys give to a fresher graduating in one country but is planning to move into another country looking for swe/dev job and settling there?

[gritty rivet]

Talk to SWEs in whatever country you are going to.

Presumably you will have work authorization and won't need a visa sponsor? If not, better rethink because that's extremely unlikely

[tender sun]

How to talk to SWEs in a particular country, is linkedin a good way ?

[gritty rivet]

Yes, LinkedIn is a great resource for that. If there are local meetups on places like Meetup.com you can start reaching out to them too

[tender sun]

I can basically get a residency visa there if I am either pursuing education or employed by a company over there

But I need to go there in visit visa and look for a job , I don't really have a connection with anyone in tech tho , just a cousin with whom I may live till I land one 💀

[gritty rivet]

Like I said, in most countries it's unlikely that an employer is going to help you get a visa when you have no experience. Education is a much more realistic path to a visa

Then if you're really good and a bit lucky you can get an internship and then a job and stay long term. But even then 95% of students won't pull that off

This is based on what I know here in the US and also what I hear from UK

If your cousin can sponsor you for permanent residency, different story

[blazing harbor]

@fringe sphinx the top comment here is just super shameful: https://www.reddit.com/r/csMajors/s/2e6NqYL7bE

no matter the issue; it takes guts to speak out against apartheid/violence in the tech industry, especially when you have things to lose such as a job at Google

[tender sun]

My cousin can only offer me a temporary place to stay :/ , I have to connect with people with a visit visa and look for jobs , is there a way I can do connecting efficiently and effectively?

[gritty rivet]

I could only repeat what I said earlier about LinkedIn, etc. But my main point would be that you should enroll in education if you expect to stay more than a few months. Graduate programs can offer stipends which are (just barely) enough to live in and that's a much easier way to get a visa

[tender sun]

Okay , thank you very much

[smoky quest]

this sounds super sketchy depending on the country involved.
Most of the interviews can be done remotely now, so you may not even have to visit. However visas do tend to take a lot of time and having degrees can help getting better access to them.

Linkedin/indeed are very popular platforms to look for jobs

[worldly gyro]

Yooo guys, im finishing my bachelors of engineering in information technology this month, next obvious pick is masters in computer science right?
Aiming for python AI/ML for data science

[gloomy osprey]

what does 25th% mean

[true harness]

they mean percentile but I guess they left that out

[deft herald]

Yeah, that's what the % means - percentile. So 25% of the data samples are below that number

[high coral]

why do you want to get your masters?

[fringe sphinx]

Some people go right to masters, others get a job and finish masters part time, and others just get a job and don’t get masters. For AI/ML, Masters is a good idea

[zealous path]

If you can afford it then definitely should get your Masters

[worldly gyro]

ye i figured that i will waste my weekends otherwise anyway, so i can get masters during that time and have 2 degrees,
beside IT studies are more of like a surface knowledge of systems and programs, might aswell get to know computer deeper to get a full picture

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. You were switching majors too. Ah, yah, you’ll have to cover some material you might not know (like DSA)

[worldly gyro]

No i wasnt, i staarted bachelors degree in Information Technology, thats how this degree is called, so i want to get masters in SC
In my country of You have a bachelors of eng and masters, you have 2 seperate degrees so its really good on the market, not sure how it goes worldwide but i think If You finish masters after bachelors You have only masters degree to show.
So summarizing, its not gonna hurt to spend another 1.5 year in college to get better degrees haha

[proper plaza]

are there any other coding fields I can explore besides web dev?
backend and especially frontend aren't really for me

[pine sleet]

SWE is general is broken up into frontend, backend, and everything else (typically embedded) so you're restricting a large percent of what you can do

[proper plaza]

okay but like I don't want to do web dev
my vision for coding doesn't go there
I tried

[pine sleet]

that's fine web dev is not the only thing there is

[proper plaza]

ik there's ai and cybersecurity
is there anything else?

[pine sleet]

there is too many to list out

depending on how specific you want to get

[fringe sphinx]

What’s your education level right now?

[proper plaza]

is there any good source/list I can check then
as general as the first two I mentioned could work

[pine sleet]

in terms of careers, look at jobs you find interesting and see what sort of skills and technologies they want

[proper plaza]

I'm going to college this year hopefully
but I've done coding for like 2 years
tho I'm still kinda a beginner

[pine sleet]

indeed.com and linkedin.com are good for finding these

[proper plaza]

that's the thing tho
idk much about my options
so a list detailing that would be helpful
I'm not exactly sure what I'm interested in yet

[fringe sphinx]

Another way of asking this is: what types of companies employ software engineers?

[digital fjord]

College will usually provide an extensive overview of not-webdev things. Some highlights

• formal languages
• simulation
• formal verification
• networking
• hardware stuff
• management
• gamedev

[fringe sphinx]

And congrats, good luck with your applications.

And don’t let senioritis keep you from graduating 🙂

[pine sleet]

so true

[proper plaza]

sounds interesting but I kinda feel bad for asking you to explain each one
that's why I ask for a site
I could do this on my own
but it's surprising how badly google can misinterpret my searches :(

[proper plaza]

I have a 30% in english 😭

[errant jacinth]

Oh shoot, wrong channel. Apologies

[digital fjord]

Formal languages - very math heavy, foundational theoretical CS - probably a stay at uni doing research route
Simulation - very interesting programming techniques and math, no idea who hires around this though.
Formal verification - another bit of theory, but much closer to practicality than formal language
Networking - usually not super programming heavy, more about administration (though I'm sure someone is getting hired for socket programming)
Hardware stuff - around here learning embed C and programming ESP32s for generic startup is insanely lucrative. Different from traditional programming. There are also hardware description languages, which are very much their own thing and usually require an electrical engineering degree.
Management - there'll be electives for how to manage teams, software methodologies etc. Won't get to do much programming, however.
Gamedev - you make video games. Wouldn't recommend due to the state of the industry.

[proper plaza]

Wow thank you so much!
Must’ve taken some time

[obsidian matrix]

Guys, what do you think about data analysis for this year?

I just finished my python course, and i was thinking about start learning power bi, pandas and that stuff, with the market we have today, do you think it is doable to get at least a trainee job?

[proper plaza]

Not an expert but data entry might be a good start

[keen obsidian]

It depends on what you want to go into, but lots of friends and family had a double degree but only uses one in the workforce

[fallow widget]

Hey guys. I hope you are all doing well. I’m doing Masters in FinTech. And I’m specialising in data science. Currently learning basic Python and data analysis concepts. I have a basic knowledge of statistics too due to my finance background. Im also learning Tableau in college. How do I prepare myself to be job-ready for a data analysis role?

P.S And I have about 8 months to be job ready. Im willing to turn on my afterburner and go through the Python syntax. I’m not doing master in computer science though. But as a starter project, I want to use Python to do a sentiment analysis. I want to use tokenisation and then do a bit of analysis on a product review or something.

[jolly elk]

@proper plaza maybe Python isn't your thing. SWE is flooded right now anyway. Perhaps get into lower level languages and embedded software?

[fallow widget]

Any tips or guidances would be highly appreciated. 👍🏻

[jolly elk]

@fallow widget search for jobs you would be interested in. check their requirements and preferences, then aim to satisfy those.

[fallow widget]

My dream job would be to work for Spotify remotely as an analyst. My passion for music and analytics would be the perfect combo though.

[jolly elk]

they're not hiring atm, but look at similar companies and what they are looking for. even if it isnt Python, they may want other technologies or competencies.

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? They expressed interest in data analysis, why that recommendation?

And they havent gone to uni yet

[fringe sphinx]

Learn to code. It’s hard to do much else until you start there. See the resources link below, and when you (which you will) get stuck, ask for help in #python-discussion

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fast fossil]

Mmm, so basically, I'm thinking of a maths degree...
I actually started mechanical engineering last year, but stuff happened and basically I don't really want to return to that degree, I never even really planned to work in that industry, but anyway
CS, I'm aware that a CS degree is the path of least resistance and what's being basically recommended here as opposed to not having it, but I don't know, I sort of have something? against a degree in that field, maybe it's because of the knowledge I already have (which obvs would make it somewhat easier to complete the degree anyway), but I'm sort of leaning towards math, I have a couple of reasons, one, is that it's obviously a basis for so many other things, two, it would take about 3 years for a bachelor's degree, which is a factor, but not much more than just "not losing" this academic year and sort of graduating at the same time as I would if I had continued with this mechanical engineering course, three, based on reason one, but as I understand, I can then get a masters degree in related fields and it seems to me that some of the CS masters degrees you can take if you have a math bachelor's, stuff like cryptography and such I guess, I could also go for statistics masters in some specialisation I guess, that'd be useful for ML/AI stuffs and the math bachelor's would be useful for that as well, I'd just have a deeper understanding about the theory behind AI and such... and also looking even further into the future, whatever happens with quantum computers, I assume I'd be better equipped already to tackle the logic of those if I have a strong maths background, so that's that, that's my reasoning sort of, what do you think?

(I've been mixing up the spelling of maths and math too much for my own liking, but whatever 😁)

[proper plaza]

ur making it sound like SWE takes all programming careers
is that really true
plus would the tough market stay the same forever?

[jolly elk]

They do not, and it will not. I said that because you seemed to be unsure where you wanted to grow and looking for advice. An option you may not have considered is embedded software but that isn't with Python, afaik

[fast fossil]

there's a bit of embedded Python with stuff like micropython, but idk how far that project has gone

[fringe sphinx]

I mentioned before that I started as a EE and hated it. Nowadays, I think a strong math or stats background will serve you well if you’re thinking graduate school… but as an undergrad only, you’ll be behind the more applied fields. There are hybrid degrees (data science) at some schools too.

[fringe sphinx]

Not my expertise, but consider stats as opposed to pure math, depending on what the school offers

[native parrot]

how does a scholarship benefit the institution giving the scholarship?

[summer roost]

it depends. sometimes it's purely charitable, an attempt for an institution to do good in the world. sometimes it's a way of building the brand and making themselves look good. Sometimes it's a condition of getting money from someone else - they need to give at least X% of it away.

[fast fossil]

I have considered applied maths, which is what one of my friends is also taking, I'm not entirely sure what applied means in this context of somewhat pure math, but yeah (they're also using a bit of Python there, so that seemed fun as well, not guaranteed I'll have it though because I'll probably go to a different uni, but anyway), stats ig sounds more reasonable, but as of right now I don't have much interest in that field on its own, so that's a bit of a roadblock in that direction, I guess I could go with data science if I find a programme for that, not sure what it's really about though
about the applied stuff, would it change anything in that regard, if, for example, I can land a swe job during studies? obviously I'd also have a portfolio, but having work experience, I don't see how it would be any different to taking an applied CS degree

[fluid owl]

when i grow up i wanna be a plumber

[fast fossil]

mmm, I'll have to maybe look into the math covered by a CS degree and something closer to pure/applied math and see what the difference is anyway

[fluid owl]

cuz plumers handle poop

and i handle poop every day

[fringe sphinx]

This is #career-advice not troll discussion. Take this elsewhere please.

[fluid owl]

sorry sir or maam

[fringe sphinx]

This is the edge of my expertise but: I’d suggest starting with what maths is important to Data Science (or whatever your interests are), and working backwards from there. I suspect theoretical math is not where you’d want to go, for instance.

And I’d bet that stats is probably more broadly applicable, given what I see in fintech, but 🤷🏻

[fast fossil]

I assume not, like, going too abstract is probably not gonna be thaaat much helpful in CS, so that's a thing, but yeah, I'll just research it a bit more and see what I like best ig

[pale lintel]

am going to hack u

[fleet reef]

good luck

[ocean salmon]

Can learning python and excel independently could let me finding a job? Or anther language would be more advisable towards career change without college or uni degree as life circumstances has ended my career and I can't afford school. I have started with basics and it gives a lot of fun learning Python.

[storm terrace]

Hi everyone, im looking for some advice regarding training. Im looking to get the comptia a+ certification, yet it is quite expensive and i would like to be as ready as a can to get it. I have a few years of experience in various IT jobs and some python and database knowledge. But i dont know where to train for the certification. I found a couple youtube courses but i wanted to ask if there is any known resource im missing 🙂 thanks in advance to anyone who might help!

[gritty rivet]

Nobody can really tell you what somebody might ultimately hire you for. Getting hired as a Python developer or data analyst with no degree is extremely hard but it's not impossible.

Keep learning, keep an eye on your local job listings and good luck. If you can manage a discount online degree like WGU it's a lot better than nothing.

[gritty rivet]

Videos are OK for reinforcing specific topics but reading is going to be a lot more effective for most people. Studying practice questions is the most important of all.

BTW Python and DB knowledge is basically irrelevant as you'll see from reading the exam objectives and doing practice questions. It's mostly practical desktop support troubleshooting scenarios.

[ocean salmon]

I'm waiting for results from turning college as I've send video for second stage of interview, i bought access to coursera and started to learn from there but i've read that certs from there are not so valuable but probably better than nothing, thanks for advise

[vapid jay]

Hello

[gaunt solstice]

You can get Coursera training courses for free by applying for Financial Aid, the process taking two weeks

[rapid beacon]

Hi! Everyone, would anyone like to share their experience regarding choosing a field in the software field, I'm literally confused, I tried working on different fields for a couple of week but ended up where I was confused. so any sort of a advice ?

[native parrot]

a noble pursuit

[turbid bobcat]

Startup dude didn't say anything. Why so much firework to then ghost me 🙄

[spice latch]

is PCAP certification worth to do?

[harsh river]

not really, those certifications aren't accepted industry wide and are more of a money grabs, there aren't certification worthwhile for python like there are for some fields like cybersecurity or networking.

[spice latch]

so, is it waste of money

[harsh river]

that's what i just said.

a college degree with be the path of least resistance

[spice latch]

okay

[spice latch]

i'm also thinking same.

[spice latch]

any certification that's worth to do? Can u suggest me some?

[harsh river]

there aren't certification worthwhile for python like there are for some fields like cybersecurity or networking.

the best way is to get a college degree.

then apply to jobs

[bronze acorn]

hi

i am new here

[harsh river]

#python-discussion is general. this is career discussion.

[kindred oyster]

through college placements mainly

then through online job portals

[fallow widget]

Is SQL easier to learn if you are a beginner/intermediate in Python?

[dire tartan]

no

it can be with an ORM library but thats another thing to learn too

[proven pulsar]

they are different

[last chasm]

Hello everyone, As part of my career transition dossier, I'm seeking individuals working in the field of data (data analysts / data scientists, etc.). Ideally, I'd like to interview professionals based in France or in countries with similar work processes. This will ensure that the responses I gather better reflect the professional practices I'll encounter in the French job market. If you're willing to spare some time for a brief written interview (or oral, though my English isn't very strong), please feel free to contact me via private message. I anticipate this will take approximately 30 minutes to an hour.
Thank you very much for your assistance. 🐍

Edit : if i'm posting in the wrong channel, please tell me and i will move my message

[true harness]

yes, definitely. it is quite different from python on the surface, but there are similarities

[rapid tinsel]

Hi everyone, can anyone please suggest which is the best way and platform to learn Python? currently, I'm working in a different field.

[gritty rivet]

!resources Take your pick, the options are endless and what's best is situational and subjective. If you really have no idea where to start, maybe try Harvard's CS50 course (don't pay for the certificate just do the free course)

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

Isn't the certificate free?

Harvard is a craze

[kindred oyster]

there are both free and paid , but the free one wont hold as much value

[vapid jay]

How much is paid one

[kindred oyster]

not sure , you can check on edx

[vapid jay]

Whats edx

[kindred oyster]

online website where you can enroll for the cs50 course
just google edx cs50 , you will find it

[vapid jay]

Is the certificate worthit??

@kindred oyster please say (don't bully me)

[vapid jay]

It's 219 dollars

[gritty rivet]

I disagree with Saul... Don't pay. The class is free and worth it. The certificate is worthless

[hearty island]

i don't understand. the internal recruiter who said i did well on the interview and he'd like to move me to the next stage rejected me.
i asked him for feedback and he said he liked my interview but he sent my resume to the hiring team and they just straight up said no
why promise me something like that if i was going to get rejected? wtf?

this is amateur hour

[vapid jay]

Man

What certificates are good for getting a job please tell me

[hearty island]

no cert is going to make you a better python dev, go to college in CS and get a degree

the harvard course is good for foundational knowledge

[gritty rivet]

What kind of job?

Look at job listings. If the jobs you want are usually looking for a particular cert, then maybe get it

[hearty island]

i'm so angry, but there's nothing i can do

[vapid jay]

Like to increase hiring chances by some online certificates?

[gritty rivet]

Better get used to.ot, recruiters suck

[near ocean]

What kind of job

[hearty island]

i know

[strong lava]

a degree and a portfolio with relevant projects has more value than a certificate

[vapid jay]

Ml engineer in ai field

[hearty island]

this is the same internship company that gives me nothing to do, so i'm not surprised.

[near ocean]

A degree or two is what you'll need

[vapid jay]

Any supporting certificates like harvard cs50

[fringe sphinx]

Recruiters are dopes, gatekeepers who can only harm.

[near ocean]

Not really
Theres no certificate that could ever make up for a degree

[fringe sphinx]

I always told my recruiters: Just give me the unfiltered stack.

[hearty island]

but why promise me something like that and not deliver

[vapid jay]

Thanks

[gritty rivet]

Look at job listings like I said and you'll see: no.

If you want to do basic desktop support then ConpTIA certs like the A+ are valued. Even then, no degree is playing on hard mode.

[hearty island]

how did i not land a biz analyst job that doesn't even have technical skills?

[true harness]

from what you said, it just seems they liked you, not that you were guaranteed to move on

[vapid jay]

How old are you sir?

[hearty island]

22

[hearty island]

he explicitly said "i'll be moving you on to the next stage"

[vapid jay]

Please check your dms

[vapid jay]

What degree u got?

[true harness]

maybe the next stage is the hiring manager review /shrug

[fringe sphinx]

I'm going to bet they made an internal hire.

Or the req was closed.

[hearty island]

but i applied internally, you're saying they went with another one?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, you never know. Sometimes they promote within. Sometimes the req was closed (ie: headcount moved to a different org) etc

That's why at big tech, we rarely laid people off: we didn't know if we'd get the req back

[hearty island]

well i'm gonna be livid for the next couple of days, but i'll get over it

[fringe sphinx]

only really terrible people got fired (or mass layoffs)

[kindred oyster]

I am not encouraging them to pay either lol , I believe that you can learn programming to an employable level for totally free. I was just pointing out the difference between the paid certificate and the free one

[hearty island]

biz analytics

[kindred oyster]

No

[gritty rivet]

AFAIK they don't offer a"free certificate" and the paid one has no value. The course is free and the cert is what you pay for. Or am I wrong?

[kindred oyster]

i am not up to date on the course , but when i had checked it like 3 years ago , they gave out a free and a paid one

paid certificate sure has no real value (at least imo) but it at least shows that the person taking the course is serious about it and not just playing around since they have spent a significant sum of money

but yeah , you in no way need either of the certificates , just aim for the knowledge

[grim gate]

Wanted to learn coding

Anyone help me

[vital wyvern]

Anecdotally, I don't think programming certs hold any sort of water in the SWE/dev sphere. There's some tangential certs that might help you out; things like AWS, Azure, GCP, etc., that help credential you in respect to specific platforms, but I... honestly wouldn't pay for a 'Python class' or a certification. There's a plethora of good, free classes and resources out there. And I don't know that anyone would look at a certificate with any respect if you had relevant projects; and the first question I'd have if you didn't have projects but had a certificate is "Why not?"

[vital wyvern]

!res general
#python-discussion would be a better place for that question. But the link that will follow this post contains a list of our community resources. We tend to recommend A Byte of Python and Automate the Boring Stuff.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[obsidian wraith]

I learnt to unban instagram account please help me

[vital wyvern]

You were told to contact Meta support in #python-discussion. We cannot help you with this here.

[obsidian wraith]

How contact meta support brother???

[vital wyvern]

Accounts that do not follow our Community Guidelines or Terms of Service may be suspended. If your Instagram account has been suspended, you'll be informed about it in an email and when you access your account in an app or web browser. We will also let you know whether you can appeal the suspension if you believe we made a mistake. After logging in, follow the on-screen instructions to submit your appeal.

[obsidian wraith]

Bro i do this all steps....but my friend using discord server and reactive any instagram account through discord app...

[vital wyvern]

Ok, we cannot help you with this here. This isn't on topic for this channel, and not something our server is going to help with. I've given you a set of instructions. If you do not want to follow them, that's fine, but do not continue asking about it here.

[obsidian wraith]

Ok brother thank you 😊

[white relic]

I understand your frustration, but it does sound like he did what he promised. Your résumé was sent on to the hiring committee, presumably as a recommendation: that was the "next stage". The hiring committee decided not to move forward with you, that's a shame, but could be for any number of reasons and isn't that guy's fault

(at least, as far as any of us know)

[red reef]

hey hey

I'm professionally a C# developer and quite an experienced one, but I'm seeing that more positions are asking for python

and I've learned the language, but just wanted to get some advice about getting a python role ?

[fringe sphinx]

I think any senior engineer would benefit from learning another language / showing professional development (on the side) on their resume. It's the difference between someone who has a job, and someone who is "into" tech.

[vapid jay]

I am new to coding please guide me

Like I didn't even start what should I start with?

[fringe sphinx]

So, my first advice would be: select interesting projects that emphasize that you don't just "know python", but have used it for something and are a hobbyist.

In terms of getting a role, that's the million dollar question, of course.

[red reef]

yeah that's fair enough, honestly I also learned it since python has way more accessible resources in terms of learning algorithms

so I've mostly been using it to grind leetcode

[fringe sphinx]

If you really want to level up Python skills, hang out in #python-discussion and try to answer help questions in #1035199133436354600 . I learn something new every day.

[kindred oyster]

instead of wasting your time in deciding what is like the most optimal and the best way , just pick a decent resource and start learning

for example , as recommanded few days back , pick up the automate the boring stuff with python ebook and start learning
if not , start with the cs50 course that you asked about earlier

!res stuff listed here is decent , take a look , see what you like and start learning

dont waste days and days in debating what is the best way

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

Should I start with cs50

[pine sleet]

Sure

[red reef]

that's where I started

[vapid jay]

Is that certificate worthit?

[kindred oyster]

nope

[pine sleet]

No

[red reef]

no, you'll get tested regardless

[kindred oyster]

as rem previously pointed out , for a software dev in general , certifications dont mean much unless they are regarding certain areas like AWS , GCP etc

employers dont look at the certificate and go like "OMG , he has the certificate , he must be very good , we should give a huge preference to him "

they are more like , "meh , another guy with a certificate, good for him"

[red reef]

pretty much this

I have a degree and I only ever really mattered for my first job

[gritty rivet]

A degree is different. It probably matters more than you realize. A lot of employers won't look at your resume without one, even with experience. Or they may quietly pay you more because of it. I don't see that many devs without degrees but all of them at least try to get one at some point because they see that it matters

[red reef]

hmm that could be the case, It's just since my first job I haven't had to like send them a copy of it

but I know it is pretty important when you're trying to get a job in another country

[kindred oyster]

well , maybe they have a good bgc verification agency 😄

[red reef]

fair could be

[hearty island]

i'm just gonna be stuck in this pathetic internship the entire summer. i'm not going to get anything.

[gritty rivet]

It may depend on the country but I don't think I've ever had to send a copy of a degree to an employer. There's a degree of trust as it's understood you'll easily be found out and fired if you're lying on your resume

[red reef]

I get what you mean, but also like if the person has gotten that far does it really matter

[true harness]

does lying really matter? yes lol

[red reef]

I mean yes, but like if you have a candidate that has years of verifiable experience, passes all your tests and seems like a good fit, then I can imagine them not looking too hard for if you have a degree or not

from my experience it seems like an afterthought

[barren slate]

I am absolutely interested in coding / software development / dev ops etc and I would love any advice for someone who is considering this as a career in the future 😄 So feel free to dm me at all about anything 🙂

[hearty island]

my entire time and me got laid off for the internship

had a feeling it would happen

anyways, back to the job market i go.

[gritty rivet]

Depending on the roles and companies you're aiming for it's probably true that a person with 10 years of highly relevant experience could still be competitive without a degree. But if someone else has the same experience plus a relevant degree? There's a good chance that edge will matter

[weak kindle]

How did that happen

[hearty island]

they cut the budget

[weak kindle]

Damn

On the very first day?

[hearty island]

no, i've been working since november.

[weak kindle]

So you gonna put something about that on resume? You worked few months

[hearty island]

yes it's already on my resume. i have been searching for jobs the entire time, lol.

[weak kindle]

Hope you will find new one soon

[hearty island]

thank you

lol someone please explain how Optum already found my post

nah it's a scammer

[safe locust]

what format shall i put my research paper in this section

can anyone help please like what and how shall i put it here

[white relic]

Title of the paper, name and date of publication.

[near ocean]

And maybe journal?

[white relic]

You could stick an industry standard citation in there if applicable but on a résumé I think you get some leeway

Journal is what I meant by "name (of publication)" but the syntax was ambiguous

But yeah those three things

If you aren't the first author on the paper then probably should include that in some way

[spark raptor]

Do i get into software engeneering??

[fringe sphinx]

Do you want to?

Write resume, and apply?

What?

[true harness]

"after a call back, how do i get" ?

[gritty rivet]

You impress your interviewer with your skills, like excellent communication

Then as long as you have the other qualifications for the job you'll do fine 🙂

[vapid jay]

Apply for Crestron or Extron, they pay python devs hundreds an hour

So you must have a BS in CS or higher education

[pastel thunder]

for a recent grad, if it weird to mention in resume
-that i was top 1% in univ is sem x (1200+students)
-that i was top 2% in univ is sem x
like this?

how about also saying
-graduated with distinction and first division

[true harness]

i wouldn't list every semester, but i would list overall results

[fringe sphinx]

GPAs are more common

[pastel thunder]

i have listed gpa

kinda missing in achievement part

[pastel thunder]

removing achievement part better?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm having a hard time understanding your questions. Could you rephrase?

[spring whale]

hey, guys i need some advice, i have full command over python, im a self taught, ive built games in python as well, but i still cant do jobs listed on upwork, is it due to my inexperience? im in hs tho, but like i want to start doing projects but i cant, any self taught coder here help pls

[kindred oyster]

freelancing is indeed tough , people want loads and loads of stuff done for very little

[gritty rivet]

On Upwork it's quite easy to see exactly who your competitors are and what they have over you

[spring whale]

exactly plus its too varied. if i get experience in one thing, client demands smthn else, i mean--

[spring whale]

hmm, it is but how do you suggest to go about learning too much for different projects

[fringe sphinx]

It gets easier to learn new things.

[true harness]

it depends. you should show your full resume so it will be easier to give advice

[pastel thunder]

also, the latest exp's bullet seems trash, what do you suggest should i write?

[deft herald]

If you have to have 2 pages, I would move the Projects header to the other page

Also, what is a blue underlined word that says "link" going to do when the resume gets printed out?

[pastel thunder]

will print link only

[deft herald]

yup

[pastel thunder]

ok, i currently am trying to fit in one page

@true harness , any suggesitons

[white relic]

Cybersecurity and CS are different topics with different typical career paths. It is possible to find success in either one

But if you are looking for software engineering jobs with a cybersecurity degree, it will most likely be harder than if you had a cs degree (and vice versa is also true)

[crisp stream]

also, why not look for Cyber Security jobs?

[true harness]

you got a degree in it?

[vital wyvern]

This is the first time I've ever seen a GPA on a scale out of 10.

Hm. I might steal that key coursework idea.

[vapid jay]

compsci grads can find jobs in cyber security, but cyber security grads have a hard time finding jobs in comp sci jobs? Is it true?

[vital wyvern]

Objectively true.

[crisp stream]

Indian unis give a GPA out of 10

[vital wyvern]

Does it scale in the same manner as ours? so an 8.3/10 would be a 3.32/4 here?

[crisp stream]

I do not know

[fringe sphinx]

I like it as prompts for what to ask about in interviews. Just don't put stuff you can't talk about..

[vital wyvern]

I mean from my perspective, it might be a good way to introduce some of the subjects of my classes and solidify some semblence of experience without having direct work experience with something.

E.g., I've done plenty of lab-style incident response; I'm certified in it of course. But being able to describe some of the concepts used in those scenarios might be better than just saying "Incident Handler"

[tender sun]

Hi , what is you guy's thought on lying on the resume? (Sorry for my bad English)

[smoky quest]

terrible idea

[tender sun]

A little exaggeration?

[smoky quest]

terrible idea

[lilac storm]

Hello guys i know this is for python but i am wondering if someone use oracle sqldevolper can help me in something
Thanks

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help and #databases

[lilac storm]

Thanks

[safe locust]

When am making Google scholar account it's asking for me for my article that is published. And when am searching for that I cannot see my paper there.
Can anyone tell how can I add my paper on google scholar

[near ocean]

This is not advice
https://resumelab.com/career-advice/lying-to-get-a-job

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 , delete please. not allowed without permission received in @severe widget .

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[dark arrow]

i believe most conversions use sthn like this

[vital wyvern]

O

[dark arrow]

thats 4.0

[harsh river]

O

[vapid jay]

wish me luck guys, interviewing at Yogurtland rn

[dusty moon]

Is it true that it's three times easier to find a CS job in Europe, but the pay is one-third of the US rate? Would it be worthwhile to relocate to Western Europe?

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t believe the first part at all.

[dusty moon]

Generally, I've heard that it's easier in Western Europe, although salaries are not very competitive. @fringe sphinx

[harsh river]

the salaries part would be accurate

[fringe sphinx]

Anecdotally, I think we’ve heard opposite (of jobs, not salary’s). Plus, people have posted the various indeed data that shows UK hasn’t recovered as well as US jobs. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXGBTPSOFTDEVE for instance

France looking pretty good: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXFRTPSOFTDEVE

[zealous path]

(Might be speaking out my ass)
But it seems like the US seems harder to get into jobs compared to EU just cause mass layoffs are more common in US so people go “well, they’re not being laid off in the EU so there must be vacant spots” where it’s more we don’t have mass layoffs cause people can’t get into those jobs to begin with.

But yes, salaries are like 1/3rd
But so is the cost of living
(Well…. It’s more like the wage is 1/3 and the cost is 1/2)

[zealous path]

Really depends WHERE in Europe. Just like the US, where Texas is very different from California.

[smoky quest]

Compensation seems closer to 1/4 tbh

Note also that the USA is more meritocratic. Without the right degree or school, you might definitely hit a glass ceiling in EU.
It's also a lot more difficult to change job and be laid off, which also makes it more risky to hire and so more difficult.

[vital wyvern]

I can say that from peers that I've spoken to in the UK, they have asserted as fact that I would be hired fairly quickly in the UK, but my pay would not remotely compare to what I could be making in the US. So it feels a bit like while you might be able to get a job with some level of qualification, you're certainly not going to hit that same pay amount as the US (even with cost of living accounted for.)

[smoky quest]

I can't speak for outside the EU.
There might also be a lot of variations depending on the country and role.

[zealous path]

London salary as a Data Analyst.
Don’t think that raw values will tell you much but you can see if the ratios are what you’d expect for a US job

(Dual income household so just double those for what the full value is)

[vital wyvern]

Is that monthly?

[zealous path]

Yep
£36,550 yearly pre tax
That income is post tax

Living with someone helps a lot

[vital wyvern]

Eek. Yeah, I was a financial analyst at a large bank. My opening offer after my internship ended was ~95k, which was negotiated to a bit above $100k.

[vapid jay]

Is computer science an actual competition to be hired?

[fringe sphinx]

You mean job title?

[vapid jay]

When it comes to software engineering jobs I heard not anyone gets picked because of his or her bachelor

I heard now it’s a competitive field anymore because everyone is going for it

[fringe sphinx]

It’s more complicated than that.

Big tech over hired during Covid then panicked last year due to recession fears and laid off a lot of people

Demand is recovering. The competitiveness has nothing to do with demand for software engineers

[vapid jay]

I thought the demand is low

[fringe sphinx]

We don’t hear from degreed CS majors who can’t find a job. They all (most?) seem to eventually find work.

It’s def harder to land internships, and takes long than before.

[vapid jay]

I’ve been concerned because I just started my computer science degree but have seen some videos saying that the demand is low and companies are not accepting most of degree earners

[fringe sphinx]

Don’t listen to videos. Talk to real people.

Videos are about clicks. Hot takes, negative spin, etc get clicks

It’s also country specific: some countries have recovered differently.

[vapid jay]

Ok do you think AI is taking over computer science?

[fringe sphinx]

No

AI is, at best, right now: assistive. Just like Google made us more efficient, AI might make us more efficient. It’s not making average engineers into 10xers.

ChatGPT produces mostly terrible code, and when it’s good, it’s pretty much a stackoverflow answer.

[vapid jay]

You are right I tried to see how he writes codes, it shows you how to start it doesn’t give you the full details to the code

[fringe sphinx]

The thing is, it’s better than google for searching for an answer, but it’s not better than a good engineer.

[vapid jay]

Yeah I can agree on that

It gives you what you want in lines but google gives you what everyone wants you to want

[fringe sphinx]

Also; as a cs major: you still have to ‘get good’ at coding. The degree is just part of it: you have to practice and learn.

[light elbow]

Hello new here

[vapid jay]

I want to I’m interested

[vapid jay]

Welcome

[fringe sphinx]

Start small projects, see this list

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[light elbow]

Thanks @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

Yeah I’ve been having a project in my mind to create a closed voice assistant just for me with artificial intelligence

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

You think it’s too much as a start?

[fringe sphinx]

My advice; start simple. Very simple.

[fringe sphinx]

Too much

Everybody wants to build Jarvis.

[vapid jay]

Mine I named her eve from Wall-E

[fringe sphinx]

Love that movie.

[vapid jay]

I actually got into creating tasks but gave up when I wanted her to connect to several devices in my house

[fringe sphinx]

My favorite was Mo https://youtu.be/iiMFRMoxxEI?feature=shared

[vapid jay]

I got my mo hooked up into the charger rn

[peak halo]

every single person in my graduating class was full-time employed or in grad school within six months of graduating

and I did group projects with some of them, so that's disconcering for at least a few employers.

[vapid jay]

I've heard there are some people that don't know how to code, so they get into management positions with their CS degree. Is it true?

[fringe sphinx]

It’s been long true that many CS graduates can’t code: see the fizzbuzz test.

Anecdotally, it’s improved. I hate the emphasis on leetcode, but it’s forced cs majors to practice basic coding

But, it’s also true that some (many?) CS majors don’t become SWEs. No idea of stats on this.

[light elbow]

Damn that fizzbuzz did it got it worked well submitted the code said it was wrong because it was showing 0

[buoyant seal]

@fringe sphinx speaking of voice assistants. It is great fun playing Skyrim V with voice activation of dragon shouts and disabled cool down.

Depending on how many parts u said aloud. Fus, Fus Roh or Fus Roh Dah, your dragon shouting varietes in power and effects.

I binded Fus Roh Dah (kinetic blast)
Tid Klo Ul (time slow motion)
Liz slen nus (freezing enemy into use)
Wuld Na Kest (dash forward. Saying multiple in a row u can quickly move around)
Yol Toor Shul (fire breathing)

[vapid jay]

Niceee

[fringe sphinx]

Huh, that’s pretty cool. I’ve never played any Skyrim, because when I play games I lose all sense of time.

(Until the game is fully conquered )

[buoyant seal]

Same. I am very game addict. That is why playing today only games with finiti endings if allowing myself new game session. That makes sure harm is minimal because earlier or later game will be finished

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, open worlds… forget about it

Bullet (1 min aside) Chess was my last problem game.

[buoyant seal]

Important is playing single players that have ending at all (Minecraft is fine 😛 )
And never ever touching MMORPGs (World of warcraft) (they have no ending)

[fringe sphinx]

This is def a career tip: occupy your time with projects, not endless game binges

[buoyant seal]

Yeah... If will be playing it will be hard to find time for pet projects.
BUT...
Most of my enthusiasm for pet projects was born out of being part of game communities.

Freelancer Discovery space shooting game community inspired coding for them multiple tools and possible served reason for my easy hiring after graduation at all (participation in open source. It was in C++)
Today making web stuff to them in Golang

And Minecraft and its modding is inspiring me a lot to learn Java
Minecraft modding is biggest in the world. Over 100k mods ^_^

Games are a great source of inspiration, or even more like burning passion

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, that’s a fair point, 👍🏻

[true harness]

balance~

[vapid jay]

Last week I made the ultimate choice, to delete a terabyte worth of games on my pc. I've essentially replaced gaming with coding. Hope it pays off.

[buoyant seal]

I keep not only coding experience from my gaming stuff, but also DevOps engineering/Infrastructure as a code stuff too.

Keeping running my apps and also Avorion space game and Minecraft servers in Kubernetes homelab cluster 😊
Going to add more add-ons to server for happiness and trying further different tools to do that

At work we dived into Kube system too. So point to have fun with experimental stuff at home, some useful stuff will be useful at work.

Minecraft server is great, it can run on arm64 CPU architecture which is very cheap today at Hetzner for example. Like twice prices are lower for arm powered servers

[fringe sphinx]

Good luck! I’m not anti gaming, as Darkwind said, it’s balance!

[shy adder]

Anyone ever get a job/through an interview based on their hackerank score? I saw an application requesting it for the first time the other day and was wondering if I should invest some time into that

[smoky quest]

Never heard of it. I would also question whether or not these are people you would want to work with

[narrow geyser]

this this this this this this this

[kindred oyster]

imo having such scores on the resume is not bad as long as the candidate is not making it their sole identity
it probably falls under the meh category becuase its not that hard to get 5 star in a particular subject on hackerrank

but a person who has a good 5 star like rating on platform like codechef or codeforces is something worth taking a note of imo becuase you have to earn those starts by participating in timed contests on a biweekly or weekly basis , the problems are unique and leetcode like

[smoky quest]

nah that's bs.
In general, the take away will be:

• They missed the point in terms of metrics vs goal
• If they do well in the coding part, they will not be taken as seriously because they have advertised they prepared a lot for it. So that means getting more difficult questions or some of the answers being taken for granted

[sullen fern]

Hey!

I am translating a resume and I consider that the judgement of a native English speaker would be extremelly helpful. Is there someone open to taking a look at it and giving me feedback?

I promise that I am just looking for a second opinion

[harsh river]

just send the resume here and people will review it

[sullen fern]

There is personal information attached to it, I would like to do it in private

May I send you a dm? Feel free to ignore the question if you dont want to

[harsh river]

you can change PII if you need to, names, addresses locations and leave in revelant information

#career-advice message

here's an example. it's very unlikely you're going to get reliable reviews in DMs

[sullen fern]

I will try to

Grammar is extremelly important to me. Thanks in advance . And also thanks @harsh river for the idea of hiding data

[smoky quest]

it should all fit within a single page

[sullen fern]

How? hahahaha

[smoky quest]

with class 😎

[sullen fern]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

What about grammar and spelling? Any other consideration?

[smoky quest]

Unless you have 3-5 years of experience, you should fit it inside a single page otherwise it will be ignored.
I see some opportunities related to the layout and spacing

a visible typo would be proyects -> projects

[sullen fern]

You are right. Thanks for pointing that out. "Projects" in English is "Proyectos" in Spanish

Any other consideration?

Take into account that I have been studying for 5 years and that I am really young. I am trying to take my first steps into the laboral world

[torn kernel]

:D

[vapid jay]

Is that free

[torn kernel]

it took me 1 damn year to get that certificate

[vapid jay]

How much did that cost I just saw offline certificate

Hello

Wow nice careers

[torn kernel]

offline means that i havent done the lessons online, i did them irl, i went too the course

yis

and for teenagers xd

[vapid jay]

Yeah ofcourse how much did you spend

[gritty rivet]

I hope you're planning to go to university then? I'm sure you'll do well

[vapid jay]

Same only in good ones

[true harness]

the more serious competitive programming platforms aren't really for interview prep though. they're for fun
and wouldn't getting more difficult questions make it unfair compared to other candidates?

[fringe sphinx]

Fair? No snark but: fairness is not a consideration

Even if we normally ask medium difficulty questions, if one candidate walks in claiming to be a LC god, then sure, we’ll hit them with a harder than normal question

[gritty rivet]

This employer sounds silly. Unless you really want to work for them specifically I would look elsewhere.

[true harness]

but now you don't know if you're comparing candidates on the same basis. don't you want questions to be similar to compare across applicants?

[fringe sphinx]

Not at all. I’m not really comparing them against each other: I’m comparing them against what we want in an engineer

In most cases, the decision is pretty obvious: there’s a clear winner.

And; to me: the purpose of coding ‘puzzles’ is to see how someone thinks, not what they know. If they already know the answer or solve too easily, then I ask a different question

[next raven]

Can someone help me make a github code work

[shy adder]

Thanks for the input. I suppose the better thing would be to build up a portfolio of good projects. Now I just need to finish one...

Seems like the market is rough right now, so I'm probably gonna stay where I'm at and gain some years as a QA engineer

[shy adder]

Try posting in #python-discussion or #1035199133436354600 (assuming the issue is python related)

[fringe sphinx]

What market/country are you in? Not to circle all the way back to the beginning of the conv.

[shy adder]

The US. I've thought briefly about applying out of country, but I don't think that's likely for me

[fringe sphinx]

The market might be rougher, but it's not desperate times.

[fringe sphinx]

QA is a good first job, but if you want to transition to SWE, I'd be looking once I hit 1YoE

[shy adder]

That's the kinda funny thing, I actually got just over the 5 year mark of dev experience, but I transitioned over to QA automation and found it a much better fit for me.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, sorry, I misread then. I know some amazing QA engineers (automation/etc). My last QA/Dev was on the same level (pay & skill) as our top engineer.

[shy adder]

I think I'd like to work on the testing framework in addition to the tests themselves, but I think I need more years under my belt before they trust me with that

[shy adder]

Yeah that's my bad, "engineer" is quite overloaded

[fringe sphinx]

Is it an inhouse framework?

(homegrown vs third party)

[shy adder]

Yeah, I'm actually quite bitter because I was working on a testing framework in python before we got absorbed into the larger QA team. We were told we could keep our framework instead of switching to the main one, but you know how corporate promises go...

Anyway, I fear it's getting to the point that employers aren't really going to give me the time of day if I can't show off some sort of AI test writing capability

[fringe sphinx]

My main concern is: a lot of people get reallllly good at inhouse systems, only to find nobody else gives a sh*t.

I remember a few engineers I interviewed who spent 10+ years on some internal stuff at a big tech, and it was completely untransferrable skills.

They did the right thing for the company, but the bad thing for themselves.

[gritty rivet]

The ones you see in job listings first of all

A good personal project or two should help demonstrate skills that aren't unique to your current employer

[fringe sphinx]

(excellent definition)

[gritty rivet]

Correct. Look for the other ones

[bronze gazelle]

This is all too true, I work at 1 of the biggest defense contractors in the US. There's a group of us just trying to push modern (lol) testing by using pytest instead of custom bash scripts and parsing and its like insane how we cant get larger audience to adopt.

[vapid jay]

brainrot

[bronze gazelle]

Same group is about making pip packages and furthermoore conda packages (with a conda channel) and its been a tough road, and get multiple environments roling at once

[bronze gazelle]

indeed

[keen ingot]

with the recent advancements in easier roundabouts and ai tools, i'm quite insecure about web development as a whole. i'd like to hear about your opinions if it's still a viable career option in the IT industry.

[kindred oyster]

unless we are talking 25-30+ years in the future, you can be sure that nothing much will happen to the web dev market

[white relic]

if non-developers had the patience and skill to carefully construct a prompt that fully and unambiguously specifies what they want to an AI with enough detail to get a satisfactory result...
we would call them "developers"

[strong lava]

site builders for non-devs do exist and have existed for a long time
yet web devs are still finding jobs

i dont think ai would change much

[mystic violet]

Im very interested to see how this discussion turns out

[gritty rivet]

We've had the same discussion many times before, almost daily for a year now 😅

[buoyant seal]

As backend dev, DevOps engineer
I have no problems at all with current AI

There is nothing to fear because it is just out of capacity of bullshit generating language models to do that.
At best I can hope it will be able may be to monitor for me observability systems or smth, with filtering for more interesting events to watch

May be some day it will change, but inventing a true AI is like inventing Faster Than Light Hyper Drive.. not very likely event.

[mystic violet]

ok

Anyone have any more specifics as to why AI will not impact web development?

[gritty rivet]

It's definitely making us more productive and might be a factor in recent layoffs, but the net number of web/software jobs in the next 5-10 years will almost certainly be greater not less

[buoyant seal]

Than more we go into a future with neural network AI stuff, then more real developers are needed to navigate among the false information.

Current AI is used to generate in bulk a lot of wrong information, making compromised reading any articles today more and more :/

[gritty rivet]

Have you used it? It's great for making tedious and repetitive stuff fast and easy but for anything more complex it's basically useless

[mystic violet]

So whats the role of AI going to be in web developmen?

[white relic]

Covid is a bigger factor in the recent economic hardship and layoffs than AI.

[mystic violet]

So just another case of 'if ur skills are useless and low tier, u will be replaced"?

[gritty rivet]

Definitely, and interest rates too

[gritty rivet]

Well said 😁

[mystic violet]

ok then

[gritty rivet]

So as always, new technology means constant learning. Fortunately AI is pretty useful as an assistant for learning

[buoyant seal]

Bullshit generating nature of AI makes it only at maximum as smart as person capable to review what it generates.
The important part remains the person that uses it.

[white relic]

I am not a web developer but I've used chatgpt for generating code. It does a pretty good job of generating syntactically valid Python. It doesn't understand anything though so you really need to know what you want it to generate and read it and iterate on it to make sure it is right. And there are some things that it just won't ever fix so you still have to do them manually

[vital wyvern]

Is this too... "dense"?

[white relic]

Looks good to me.

[vital wyvern]

Nice, cheers.

[gritty rivet]

And to give an example of learning AI, I'm building out my first personal Django project right now. I'm constantly exchanging code snippets between multiple AIs, getting different ideas. It may give me useable code occasionally but more often it's showing me Django features I didn't know existed so I can then go read the documentation and learn about it.

This is probably what programming with AI will look like for at least a few years

[kindred oyster]

umm , ghost ping ?

[keen ingot]

so we can summarise it as follows:
AI is a tool for developers for efficiency, not a replacement.

[hearty island]

i'm thinking of doing linkedin premium. has anyone done it before? any thoughts?

[turbid bobcat]

I used it for a while, I don't think it helped that much.

[hearty island]

well i'm kinda desperate considering i just got laid off and my conditional offer was rescinded

[vital wyvern]

I don't think LinkedIn Premium (or LinkedIn in general) will ever be the thing that gets you a job. What it might do is let you network and/or discover opportunities that way though.

[hearty island]

yea, i mean using it for networking. is it at least good at that?

[turbid bobcat]

Well, so was I and I regret spending the money

[vital wyvern]

Do you need premium for that?

[hearty island]

you have a limited number of connection requests without premium per month

[vital wyvern]

We're both in the same boat, looking for jerb. And it sounds like you're well qualified as well.
My recommendation to you is to start looking for opportunities to network, to apply to places that interest you (and even some that don't) and don't get discouraged.

[turbid bobcat]

I got a job from cord.co, so I spent the money to get hired on a different platform

[vital wyvern]

I have 7 internship applications out at the moment. Stay motivated, you're one accepted application away from turning this around completely, and you'll forget this point in your life ever happened. 🙂

[hearty island]

i'm probably coming close to doxxing myself, but is there any way i can find tech meetups on long island? maybe i can network from there too

[vital wyvern]

I have no clue, that'd be some google-fu.

[hearty island]

gotcha, i will look into it. thank you so much for the support, Rem.

yea

long island is pretty shitty for tech meetups 😦

[turbid bobcat]

Says here long island is in NYC, my understanding is that NYC is a densely populated tech hub

[hearty island]

it's not in NYC, long island is separate

[turbid bobcat]

I mean, don't look far to me

[hearty island]

i just can't afford to go to NYC every weekend or so for tech meetups

but oh well, if that's gonna get me more networking opportunities i'd say it's worth it

there are online events too

[turbid bobcat]

That looks strange to me, maybe I'm misreading the map but it looks like an Uber drive to central park

[hearty island]

it's like an hour via the I-495

[turbid bobcat]

I see, a 3h drive covers like 80% of my country

London is also huge, I was there for a conference, that city covers edge to edge two of our biggest cities + the space in between

[hearty island]

https://longislandbusiness.info/calendar/ i found this

but like all their networking events are like $30 and i'm not comfortable spending money???

[turbid bobcat]

Have you gotten your resume reviewed ?

[hearty island]

yea

[turbid bobcat]

uhm, projects on GitHub ?

[hearty island]

my projects are way too basic and honestly i don't know what business intelligence looks for in their projects

[fringe sphinx]

Take whatever you can get, is what I’d say. LI is the ‘suburbs’ vs NYC, very different work cultures

[hearty island]

the interviewers don't know themselves.

[turbid bobcat]

I'm a big believer of portfolio project to upskill, I think it has helped me a lot

[hearty island]

i am too, i just cannot find datasets that i find are personally interesting. everyone does the usual kaggle stuff and it's difficult to differentiate yourself from the crowd

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I think the upskill is the important part, rather than something for the resume.

[turbid bobcat]

Ah it's not that hard, just find something you are passionate about and incrementally add to the difficulty

[hearty island]

i mean who wants to see the titanic dataset for the nth time unless you can do something interesting with it

[fringe sphinx]

It’s not about impressing anyone with your results, but about learning new techniques and ideas.

[turbid bobcat]

My current project was just rewriting nano gpt, an existing repo, but I kept adding ideas as I was learning

Now it's its own thing, learned a ton with it already

[fringe sphinx]

But yah, I feel you, analytics is a hard thing to demonstrate.

[hearty island]

i have projects with excel dashboarding and all but it's nothing impressive i can put on a resume

[turbid bobcat]

I'd still put it I think

[hearty island]

yes it's a great skill to have

[turbid bobcat]

And I bet it's not that bad, I remember someone insisting they couldn't place a project on their resume, just to then find out they had a project with thousands of downloads on vs code extensions

[hearty island]

i found something for networking

https://www.meetup.com/huntington-business-networking/ here it is

i'm not in the huntington area, but it might be worth looking into??

[turbid bobcat]

There's gonna be an online Nvidia conference too

https://www.nvidia.com/gtc

[hearty island]

gotcha. will register for that too

[lost cypress]

Hey any thoughts on if projects or education should be above one another on a resume if I am applying for a software engineering internship? I keep getting mixed answers

[hearty island]

that’s why i’m on the hunt for good books on business intelligence

[turbid bobcat]

I do experience -> projects -> education

[lost cypress]

yea it’s I’m aiming for my first internship

so ig I’ll keep it at
Tech Skills > Projects > Education

[turbid bobcat]

Placing education first when you don't have XP is also customary

[lost cypress]

oh really?

[turbid bobcat]

It depends on what you feel is stronger, your education or your projects

[lost cypress]

i mean i'm pursuing a bachelor in cs and minor in mathematics and graduating spring 2025, but i feel like a recruiter would want to see my actual projects instead of that yk

[turbid bobcat]

If it doesn't look clear cut the only way to really know is by trying it out against the job market, see which one performs better

[lost cypress]

true

does anyone know if it is better to keep the general times off my projcts on or off the resume? I have it as like Feb. 2024 for example. I've sometimes heard recruiters advise to keep the general times off. I usually keep it on though

[pine sleet]

I don't put dates for personal projects as I don't think it's as relevant as dates for education and other work experience

[turbid bobcat]

When does a personal project even end, it's endless work, there's always more you can add

[hearty island]

times for projects? nah

[buoyant seal]

It would be useless to put in my case.
Good pet projects are iteratively infinity improved and maintained.
So for all my relevant pet projects it will be time until now (therefore not important)
Devs can check this time from public repo on their own anyway

[buoyant seal]

Also it is bad linking stuff u did not update for more than a year/years.
Likely chance your skill improved to a current time a lot, therefore if u will regret linking outdated stuff of your past you.
It is common a lot for devs checking stuff they wrote like 2 years or more ago and thinking what a shit I wrote that time

Pet projects need to be updated for your current level in order to be not embarrassed linking them to portfolio

[white relic]

I don't feel it's common to actually click links in résumés. I never do (at least not until after I've had an actual interview with the person)

[lost cypress]

but it wouldnt hurt though to have like a link of a deployed project of mine right? considering im applying for my first internship

[white relic]

It wouldn't hurt, but it's far more important to describe the project in the actual text. Your résumé should advertise how great you are without requiring the reader to click links (for various reasons)

[lost cypress]

oh yeah i do have bullet points ofc

i also have my github linked at the top

[gritty rivet]

This is true. Ultimately increasing efficiency could potentially mean fewer jobs but I think it's way too soon to be seriously worried about that.

And another key point that gets missed by students who worry... so many other professions will be hit at least as hard. So then what? There's no alternative but to learn skills that are useful today and expect to stay agile and adaptive for the future as it comes

[turbid bobcat]

I think it's good to link yeah, and assume they'll click on it even tho a lot won't. Cuz the one person that might click on it is the one that's interested

[lost cypress]

pretty good advice, are you also a current student too?

[vital wyvern]

Yes.

[lost cypress]

nice have you been able to get an internship already or are you searching for your first, also when is your expected grad? if you dont mind me asking ofc

[vital wyvern]

No internship yet, just a applications few floating around. I should graduate around November-December of this year.

[lost cypress]

awesome bro im in the same boat but i am expected to grad spring 25

I wish you the best of luck in your internship search too!

[vital wyvern]

You as well! 😄

[hearty island]

oh wait rem are you in college?

[vital wyvern]

Yep!

[hearty island]

you'll be awesome dude, i landed 5 internships so far and i don't even go to a good college

and your resume is mad stacked compared to people i see in my college

currently i am shooting for a FT offer

[vital wyvern]

Thanks 😅 I'm a career transition-er. So my situation is a little more unique. I know something will come along that I enjoy, just gotta keep pressing 😄

[hearty island]

i'm gonna be watching some vids on data storytelling. see what i can figure out from there. build some nice portfolio projects that really focus on the storytelling aspect of it all.

i think that's a good path to go on

what do y'all think?

[lost cypress]

dang man 5 internships??

[hearty island]

yep.

[lost cypress]

I wish I did not make the mistake of not applying for a software engineering internship until my junior year

currently a junior so I really wish i knew better because right now it feels like i will be jobless after college

[hearty island]

lol i will also be jobless after college, you're not alone dude 👊. it's what you do with your time that matters.

[lost cypress]

that's true

[hearty island]

yep

[lost cypress]

never too late, but I guess my bigger worry is not having an internship before i graduate yk? because at that point very very very low chances someone without an internship will get an entry role even

[hearty island]

you need some impressive projects to compensate. i don't know if compensate is the right word.

but you kind of get what i mean, right? i'm no hiring manager but i think a portfolio would be the next thing i'd look at if someone had no internships.

[lost cypress]

i feel like my projects are pretty decent to get at least 1 internship interview yk

but yea i don't have a portfolio website but i have my github nicely put together with the repo's for all my projects

ive heard that recruiters arent too crazy about a simple portfolio website when looking for an intern, would you say it is still worth to do?

[hearty island]

i would say it is worth it. it's a nice place for them to look at. if they ever look at it.

your hiring manager might ask to look at it

i know my interview at Ericsson they asked me for projects

[lost cypress]

good point

[dreamy spade]

Revisiting your comment. I’ve been employed as a developer for almost a 3/4 of a year so far. I’ve been at corporate parties, and lunches. I will say that our company’s anniversary corporate party was superb (went on a cruise), the rest also felt corporate in nature. Which means I couldn’t exactly be myself and I like being myself. Restaurants we would go to make excellent food. It’s the corporate environment that I don’t find myself enjoying the entirety of the experience. That is my review of corporate social events.

Anniversary party 10/10
Other social events 7/10

[regal axle]

Besides work; how do you guys find people in the space, to talk to and meet with and the likes? I feel like I am going crazy, do hackerspaces not exist? Or at least a makerspace? The closest things I can ever find, are for small children. I am not a small child.
What other ways do you have for finding other makers*

[hearty island]

yea in my area there aren't a lot of people to meet up with 😦

[regal axle]

A lot? There are 0 where I live. I don't understand. How can there not be a single thing!?

I actually live close (ish) to Miami. So, I tried looking there. But I can't find anything there!? That just doesn't feel right.

[hearty island]

i live on long island and it's very difficult to find like-minded people. nyc is right next to long island tho

[lost cypress]

what do you mean people in the space?

[regal axle]

I saw a thread on hacker news that basically blamed real-estate costs. And that makes sense. But only to an extent

[lost cypress]

i'm not to familiar what you're tlking about, do you mean workers in the swe field to network and meet up with?

[regal axle]

As vauge or as specific as you want that to mean. I don't need a fellow "python developer" or something that specific. But just people who like tech. Both from a networking perspective and also a just talking to humans perspective

I am a contractor. And so it isn't like I have colleagues. But humans need human connection. And I do not have much of that right now. I always try to find things or places, but just can't.
So I was wondering if there is something I am not looking into; a type of place to go to or something something along those lines

[turbid bobcat]

totally get you, I'm literally in a small village rn

I miss civilization. so. much.

[lost cypress]

Oh so I guess just friends/other humans to establish a connection with

[smoky quest]

Try to think like your enemy:

• They receive thousands of applications
• All these applications come from students
• All these students went grosso modo through the same classes
• All these students had grosso modo the same projects/exercises
• Considering the sheer amount of incoming resumes, they have to make a decision on the first pass within 30-45secon
  ** A corollary of the above is that your resume needs to stand on its own and you cannot expect people to click on your links to your portfolio

Why would YOU stand out?

Alternatively, imagine that you and all your classmates apply to the same internships. What would make you stand above the crowd?

[open ivy]

That's why I advocate networking. As in "finding people with a shared interest to about Python or tech etc", NOT "finding people to get a job".

Even if networking (more accuratly called friendship-building) fails to get you a job, you still make healthy social connections and have people to talk to. If the resume grind fails you are left with nothing.

I also like having side-projects etc as well. Find or create something you care about working on.

[fringe sphinx]

The purpose of portfolio is first to learn. Then, to demonstrate. Prioritize projects that make you learn and grow.

[smoky quest]

indeed!
Max out all the opportunities!

[regal axle]

But how does one network, when there are no places to network? Conferences seem far and few between. And unlimited travel is not always an option

[smoky quest]

• Meetup
• Online communities (ex: there are more professional ones)
• Be the change you want to happen! Post something in the subreddit of your city to see if there are other like minded people

[open ivy]

The resume grind is bad in so many ways:

1. It is a very strong Dune-Box (very unpleasent to do).
2. It is an infosec hazard. If 1/200 is a scam applying to 1000 averages five scams. Also spam emails!
3. Failure leaves you with nothing (as I said before).
4. It doesn't teach any skill.
5. Common knowledge is that it is a bad strategy.

All of the following strategies are better along most of these metrics:

1. Once in a while sending a resume out should an opening get your attention.
2. Your own side projects, if they are fun.
3. GitHub projects that you want to see improved (for advanced programmers).
4. Courses/bootcamps. Just don't waste too much money here!
5. Making friends (networking as it's called) in tech or SWE. Friends who are artists are fine as well of course.
6. Making a portfolio website.

These synergize. A good side project won't get attention on it's own, but it gives a topic to bring up in future networking interactions.

[open ivy]

Networking = Making friends in your field. Social interactions are very indirect. You don't say to new friends "can I be your friend"? When you first meet them. Similarly, you don't say to people "Can I get a job"? Which is one reason why the resume grind is so bad.

It has to happen. So the goal is to find situations where it is more likely to happen.

"I want fun tech geek people to hang out with and talk to".

[regal axle]

Yes, no, I know. #career-advice message
The issue is that there does not exist any places or events where I can meet people that could then maybe turn into something - friendship wise or professional wise

So that means, are people's main source really just conventions/conferences? I find that hard to believe

[open ivy]

What is wrong with reaching out to other people in this Discord? Have you found anyone who you may mesh with?

[regal axle]

I don't have an issue with online connections. They are great. However, they are not a complete substitiute for in person things.
Despite being a computer nerd, I actually don't love being online 24/7

[lost cypress]

yea exactly that is why i have not been putting too much time into creating a portfolio website to display my projects because I don't expect them to choose my resume above the rest because they clicked on a link yk?

I have been prioritizing having interesting projects on there as well as trying to broaden my network

[open ivy]

Indeed that is difficult, I also have issues finding in-person. In-person took a big COVID hit. And it depends on how big the city you live in is. I would say, however, that the Bay Area isn't a special tech haven anymore. Tech can be found in many places.

I would consider the following:

1. Age. If you are still in college or PhD grad-school, then you have a campus which helps quite a bit. I am almost 35 so a little too old myself for this.
2. Personality. Do you like to talk about your projects and discuss your ideas? This fits well into D&D groups since it involves building a story. There are quite a few geeks there. Or are you more interested in talking to others about the latest in tech news? Chess club may be better, or science-fiction movie clubs.

[smoky quest]

What matters is the project rather than the portfolio.
That said, the portfolio can be a project in itself if you want to demonstrate frontend skills 😉

[open ivy]

I am curious, anyone else here who is over 30?

[fleet reef]

https://www.jotform.com/report/23000700733403601

Oh wait that off <18 which is by far the largest group

[regal axle]

I am in a city with a bunch of old people. Or snow birds. Like I said, near ish to miami but not miami. Like 1-2 hours away depending on what part.
Even just looking for something like D&D groups ... nope, they don't exist. All online.
I am looking for any chance I can get, to move out of this city. But I am waiting on a bunch of things; so I can't move just yet. I will know in a month from now, if I can move.
I might be strange, but what do you actually mean when you say "club". These are not real. I look for anything, and then I see that the last posts are always from a couple years ago. !? Where did all the humans go?

[open ivy]

1. Don't abandon online groups. It's still better than nothing.
2. Look for places to move.

"Where did all the humans go?" Lol! Could you ask about in-person D&D groups on r/maimi?

[regal axle]

I think I will fit right in 😄
I don't doubt they would accept me. This is also just ,,, a few age brackets above me. Well, I will at least, add it to a list, I guess

Man, it seems like all the ones that exist, are attached to drinks. I don't drink 🙂 (just a personal thing. I am old enough. How old I am, who knows).

[near ocean]

You dont have to drink to go out for a drink

[open ivy]

Have you actually gone and surveyed the age ranges? Have you asked them about other D&D groups (if they are too old)?

[regal axle]

Yea, I know that I don't have to actually drink. I also understand why drinks / bars would be a good thing to center a meetup around.
I will ask probably ask what age range is normally there. And I can always just go and see that it isn't for me.

[open ivy]

I wouldn't instantly have "old-people DNI". Old people friends is much better than not having in-person activities.

About 25 years old is when the brain becomes "full-adult", very roughly. For most people "full adult" means "no more imaginative play". But those who make it to 25-30 with strong imaginations generally keep them for life. The "loss of imagination" may be related to synaptic pruning (and some people don't prune as much). Given that D&D is imaginative play, try it out!

[hearty island]

would you guys say it's a good move to apply to Easy Apply jobs? on LinkedIn?

i mean. it would widen my job pool a ton.

[smoky quest]

Always ask yourself: What if I do? What if I don't?

[hearty island]

if i don't i lose an entire job pool of possible jobs

[smoky quest]

So why the hesitation?

[hearty island]

i never had success with them. probably bc i was spamming the same resumes a 100 times

[smoky quest]

So it sounds like you are questioning your approach and your spamming, not whether or not you should use easy apply

[hearty island]

i was spamming

[smoky quest]

Then what if you don't spam and try to be more mindful how you use easy apply?

[hearty island]

that's what i'll do

[hearty island]

thanks for the help, recursive 🙂

i should be able to create more interview chances if i get to apply more

[blazing harbor]

I still think tailoring resume to the job is the way to go

[hearty island]

yea dude, tailoring my resume got me a lot of interviews. my idea is to combine tailoring along with Easy Apply.

[open ivy]

I don't really know how to taylor.

[hearty island]

basically you speak the same language as the job posting

[smoky quest]

Your skills may enable you to apply to different personas. Ex: backend vs frontend vs fullstack vs management vs etc.
So the goal is to tweak your resume to make it more specific to the role you are applying based on the persona you want to highlight.
So for instance, that means putting more projects that are more relevant to that job or personal, or tweaking the bullet points different as you want to bring attention to different things

[open ivy]

I am more into algorythim design.

[smoky quest]

Not sure to follow

[open ivy]

I have a hobby interest in coming up with better physics simulation methods (i.e. less glitchy). I also like to write code that in turn modifies code.

[true harness]

you may have fun writing compilers

[smoky quest]

Nice! Sounds like fun too

[open ivy]

Unfortunately, companies rarely have the attitude "hire smart person". Instead they want people who have specific skills.

The flipside of all this is that you can find very smart people who are unemployed and have free time fairly easy.

[smoky quest]

You can be smart and have skills 😉

[open ivy]

It's hard without specific experience in the field. As in had a DJango job for 5 years etc.

[true harness]

internships go a long way towards providing that experience. education serves as a substitute also

[smoky quest]

That's more a function of the competition.
There are plenty of smart people with skills. And the advanced skills do require people to be smart to acquire them

[open ivy]

Yes. That's why one goal is to find smart people even if they struggle to get a job. They often have more time and energy available to talk about cool programming ideas.

[smoky quest]

no, that's not the goal.
A company is trying to find the best person for the role, not to be a job placement program

[open ivy]

Exactly. I can enrich my social circle without worrying as much about them getting a job that consumes all thier energy.

[smoky quest]

Sure.
But they also frequently do not have the required experience or skils to talk about these subjects

[open ivy]

That is a problem, to an extent. But I have had great difficulty reaching out to people who are in high demand in industry. Maybe you have a better way to reach out to those people?

[smoky quest]

Get closer the problems they solve and to where they hang out

[open ivy]

Do you know of any Meetup.com meetups that focus more on algorithm design?

[smoky quest]

Algorithm design is part of any software development job. So any meetup related to software dev would do.

You can also look into specific areas like data *, startups, frontend, backend, etc.

[open ivy]

The Python Meetups I found usually focus on learning the language basics. Maybe I didn't look in the right places?

[smoky quest]

yeah, look for more practitioner oriented meetups, not beginners

Obviously, there are a lot more of them in a tech area compared to the boonies

[open ivy]

Good idea. There are quite a few Python groups on Meetup:
https://www.meetup.com/find/?keywords=python&location=us--ca--Berkeley&source=EVENTS
I am having trouble finding out which ones are likely to be "practitioner-oriented"?

[smoky quest]

anything that doesn't have something about learning python in the title.
User groups is intended for the users.

I also recommend to look at their past talks to gauge the level

[open ivy]

"Past talks" is a good idea!

[smoky quest]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[pure vine]

So funny, the smart people are also probably more versatile and qualified

[tame wasp]

hello
a question someone here knows about scraping

[proper plaza]

What fields of programming are math-heavy? Perhaps even science or research?

[digital fjord]

Formal verification, formal languages, compiler theory
simulations, machine learning
to an extent game (engine) dev

[proper plaza]

Are the first 3 actual fields or are they just coding terms?
When I say fields, I mean like main applications of coding, like cybersecurity, web development, etc

[true harness]

they are actual fields

[fringe sphinx]

Definitely good to scrape before putting dishes in dishwasher. Or did you have a different question? 😄

[digital fjord]

Formal verification is closer to a job kinda field, formal languages are more pure research other fields build on. Compiler theory is also a job field, though probably a harder one to find a job since there aren't that many compilers out there.

[hearty island]

anyone heard about fishbowl?

[peak halo]

what about it?

[hearty island]

i'm trying to use it for networking

YES. i figured something out.

i attached my work email to it and it basically allowed me even tho i’m an intern (who will be laid off very soon) to network with professionals and ask for recommendations

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-reece-simpson-kayode-ewumi-roll-safe-meme-gif-17305682

[proper plaza]

This is helpful and I’ll definitely reference this but something like this video but more up to date would be really nice

https://youtu.be/2VpDcjFshJI?si=of_Igx__B4lASs5p

[true harness]

I thought you said you were already laid off

[hearty island]

in 2 weeks time, along with my 2 bosses and everyone who works for them

[true harness]

wow that's nice of them

[hearty island]

yea thank god. they showed some mercy.

[fringe sphinx]

At least they waited till after Xmas / holidays.

And, regardless, I’m very sorry to hear that.

[hearty island]

thanks billybobby. i appreciate the support man.

the good news is that i can give my resume to my dad and my uncle. i can also apply to roles on LinkedIn as i’ve had success doing so. networking on fishbowl is a good opportunity too.

[smoky quest]

damn. Sorry to hear it

[hearty island]

thanks recursive. i really appreciate it.

i really appreciate this community 🙂. there's a reason i talk here so much.

[placid haven]

What job
I have been trying to get a job on LinkedIn

[tawdry sable]

AllianceBernstein
    Babel
    BlackRock
    Carlyle
    CIBC
    Evercore
    Instinet
    IP Group
    Kearney
    LaSalle
    MarketAxess
    Marqeta
    RBC
    Simmons & Simmons
    Singer Capital Markets
    TD Securities
    Tradeweb

Which internship should i pick from these firms pls help me pick top 3 and no questions

[chrome vessel]

guys i am 0 knowledge of this things and i am 15 yrs old wut should i learn should i learn python

[crisp stream]

this channel is for #career-advice
try asking in #python-discussion

[chrome vessel]

alr

[umbral frigate]

What is your internship? Cybersecurity? Developer?

[tawdry sable]

swe/datasciecne

[umbral frigate]

Is there anything that particularly catches your eye?

Something that you want from any firm?

[tawdry sable]

I want to get into Faang next year

so something that maximises that plus a good name on my CV/great experience

@umbral frigate

[umbral frigate]

Well from your list the only ones that I would think would be a good name on your cv would probably be S&S, TD sec or Babel.

[tawdry sable]

Why babel??

would blackrock or Instinet by novura or tradweb??

@umbral frigate

[umbral frigate]

I mean, those are also good choices, but you must also think of the ones that catch people's eyes when they see them on your cv.

[tawdry sable]

True have u not heard of novura?

Blackrock and td securities stand out the most I feel

[umbral frigate]

Then choose those three. Novura, Blackrock and td.

[tawdry sable]

I just feel like they would be boring places unlike these smaller trading firms

I cant find babel? what is it

I have the list rn at:

Blackrock
Td securities
tradeweb
instienet by novura
marketaxess```

[narrow kraken]

hey does anyone here have experience writing resumes for interships, im about to try writing one

[narrow kraken]

@tawdry sable id probably pick blackrock since its the biggest

[tawdry sable]

Bro u wouldnt pick blackrock if u had Meta there

Like factor in best in cv, best benefits in the future, best pay in the future, is the work sooo boring corporate work or more interesting related to markets etc

why is blackrock ambitious? is it good because i heard its soo boring there?

[near ocean]

#python-discussion message
No offense but these companies arent for people who just google "high pay finance" one day and decide to apply randomly

[tawdry sable]

?????

[near ocean]

It takes way more networking to land one of these high power finance jobs

[tawdry sable]

IK

but im saying which of these should I pick? i only have these options right now

[hearty island]

business analyst/data analyst

[fringe sphinx]

I’ll play your game. I would pick blackrock.

[lean elk]

what if ai takes over.

[open cove]

hi guys, i am beginner, i want to learn python, what should i learn now

[lean elk]

Same for me

[hearty island]

are we supposed to assume they got into all these places?

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion , they’ll give you pointers

[fringe sphinx]

Then I guess we all get a lot more free time?

[wary drum]

programmers made ai

so dw

[vapid jay]

Hello everyone, how are you doing.
So I have a confusion that is if I wanna work as a data analyst in a big company like Google or Facebook do I need a specific data analyst degree? or with my data analysis skills I can get a job as a data analayst with any degree like CSE, statistics, SE etc

[fringe sphinx]

data analyst is a title that covers a very wide range of skills and abilities.

[fringe sphinx]

It's fair to be confused, data analysts come from many backgrounds. What is your background/education status right now?

[near ocean]

Is there a data analysis degree? I dont think so

[harsh river]

data science in a nutshell

[trail tangle]

I recommend starting by looking at available job listings to get a feel for what skills they're interested in, but keeping in mind not to get too caught up in specifics. Using indeed.com, for instance, you could enter title:(Data Analyst) company:Meta in the search bar and view available listings.

It would be typical for the listing to say "Degree in a quantitative field, such as Applied Statistics, Mathematics, Finance, Statistics, Economics, Operations Research, or Information Systems."

This is not completely necessary, but it's a strong preference.
If you study computer science, electrical engineering, or physics, instead of one of the above, it will not hurt your odds.

Most of what's going to get you the position is your ability to solve problems during the interview process.
Many of these problem solving stages during the interview process are likely going to be similar to the "coding interview" questions you would get, anyway, but some of them might ask questions that are more specific to things like constructing data queries or what kinds of statistical tools are best in a given situation.

Some schools now have data science programs. This would be great to have, but, remember, the skills you get in econometrics, statistics, signal processing, and data science are very easily transferable to each other.

[vital wyvern]

The brick and mortar I was going to go to offered a Data Analytics degree. It was... whelming. (Requirements wise.)

[trail tangle]

Years ago, when I was struggling to get my foot in the door, I considered a Data Science bootcamp. I looked at the curriculum, realized that I knew everything it covered already from having done an EE undergrad with a Machine Learning course, and decided there is no way it would be worth the cost.

I think Data Science programs are very often underwhelming.

[light elbow]

How can i get money that i have learnt python

still in school thou so no certificate any remote work i guess

[balmy cedar]

Start by proving you can, GitHub profile, work on some projects, then apply for stuff

[light elbow]

yea upload few project on GitHub

[runic tulip]

im thinking about getting into diplomacy and maybe politics but im not sure if its better then working in it can anyone with experience tell me which is better ?

[light elbow]

??

[runic tulip]

crying

[light elbow]

how many projects do i need to upload on GitHub

[kindred oyster]

you are not required to upload any projects to github by anyone
you upload if you want to

[grand kayak]

where can i find recover key

[kindred oyster]

!topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[light elbow]

yea i kow i have some project so like how many should i upload so i can get one job

[kindred oyster]

there is no a required threshold
you just upload projects that you feel are good and can show off your skills

[fringe sphinx]

As Saul said, no firm requirement. But if you want a guess, 3 projects on a resume is probably a good goal

[light elbow]

yea i know i have alot of them

so if i upload cv resume and stuff like how to make the client give me the job on upwork

[kindred oyster]

not sure about upwork
but if its a bidding thing , you bid and then convince client how you are the best fit for the job

and if its a gig based thing , show off your skills, past reviews, work samples, etc etc so that it will be easy for people to understand that you are trust worthy and can get stuff done

[light elbow]

gig hm ?? bidding they will bid for my project ?

[kindred oyster]

i cant recall how upwork works rn , but you basically list your service and then give 3 tiers of that service or smth right ?

at any rate , TLDR is showing people how you are the best fit for the work

[light elbow]

damn am confuesed now

[solid stone]

You also want projects that are relevant to the job/career you're seeking. Having a bunch of django projects is great, if you're trying to get into a webdev gig, but not so much if you're trying to get into AI/ML...

[fringe sphinx]

Step 1: get good (enough). Step 2: apply and try. Repeat

[light elbow]

jango nah not into that language for now

[light elbow]

The resume and stuff like have tried no one send me acceptance

[dapper hawk]

Hello @light elbow
you are new in discord
how are you doing today?

[light elbow]

Yea fam burh i have an account b4 burh to many nft messages there

[light elbow]

Doing dope fam

[dapper hawk]

are you working on Blockchain project?

[solid stone]

It's not about django... it's about the whole message. Projects related to the field you want.

[light elbow]

ok i will upload a ss like example for them ryt cuz i did that and did not work

[solid stone]

If you were hiring someone, and they sent you a screenshot, would you take them seriously?

[light elbow]

Oh there i fucked up burh they asked for a picture what should i have send ?

[solid stone]

A picture of what?

[light elbow]

coming lemme show you

[solid stone]

and just because you apply doesn't mean you'll get the job... I've sent out 1,000's of resumes, and only gotten a single call-back. What makes you different than the 100s of people applying for the same job? Why should they hire you over John Doe? If your job is to sell yourself, then just sending out fliers is a great way to go out of business, fast.

[kindred oyster]

not trying to be rude, but how good are you at python ? like what can you make ? what all stuff you alread know ? do you have some real world deployed projects ?

becuase it feels that you are pretty early in the python journey and you are thinking about things that are very far ahead in your road , like you dont need to worry about those when you are just started learning the thing

[light elbow]

cover letter and proposal

[vivid bramble]

Gpt api requests python give code

[harsh river]

please check the topic of this channel

[light elbow]

api check rapid api

[harsh river]

how old are you? do you have any work experience?

[light elbow]

nope 17

[upbeat cloud]

Anyone with experience or just an idea in general, I am wanting to work on a project that will just impress recruiters. What is something that I could make in python that would catch someone’s eye

[light elbow]

Anything fam

[upbeat cloud]

fr I didn’t know that😭

[light elbow]

lol

[gritty rivet]

Anything that demonstrates the skills they're hiring for.

Good design, documentation, tests, etc. matter more than what the purpose of the project does

What is really impressive is that your project is popular and actually used by someone. In that sense documenting a small but significant improvement to an existing open source project could be more impressive then something complex and truly your own but that nobody is actually using

[deft herald]

The short of it is, you're in a tough position to be able to make money off of programming right now. Your competition on freelance sites will be people in very low cost of living areas with lots more experience than you. This isn't to say you can't do it, but you just really need to be able to prove your skills

And be able to accept a very low amount of money

[lost cypress]

Are u saying he’s in a tough position because he’s pretty young still or another reason

[upbeat cloud]

I see, I appreciate your incite I do wanna build something that will be usable by multiple people however I just dont know what to start with.

[vapid jay]

hi whats solve ths problam?

i have installed pacakge google search

but the vsc not identiy it'

[peak halo]

Hello, please read the description of this channel, and then #❓｜how-to-get-help.

[mystic violet]

Why would you ever do that?

[vapid jay]

what that mean ?? need time to post?

[hearty island]

going to my school career fair again.

[idle topaz]

Anyone know where to find a good part-time job for programmers in high school?

[pine sleet]

there are almost no such jobs

[idle topaz]

I'm trying anyways.

[hearty island]

there's like none. you'd be better off prepping yourself for college

[pine sleet]

it's not a good use of your time looking for those jobs tbh

but if you insist, i would assume they'd be on the same places like linkedin

[idle topaz]

Okay. Thanks.

I've found some, just none of them are anywhere near me or remote.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, -any- work experience is good. Don’t expect a programming job, but even working at an electronics store or anything is good experience.

[snow pendant]

are the PCPP1 and PCPP2 certificates good to get a job?

[harsh river]

are they python certificates? if so, then no

[snow pendant]

Why do you say that and what do you recommend for getting a good job in Python development for a self taught person. Is it over for me?

[harsh river]

because python certificates are not worth it, they're often money grabs and not recognized industry wide, a college degree with be the path of least resistance

[snow pendant]

I'm cooked

[fringe sphinx]

You are not. You just need more than ‘Python’. You still need to start there.

[snow pendant]

What do you mean?

Leetcode?

[smoky quest]

leetcode is one of the metrics, not a goal

[smoky quest]

That means you could:

• Look at job ads for roles you would like to apply. Try to understand what requirements do they have and what do they want to see in candidates
• Look at your competition. Each job ad receives thousands of applications. What do you have to make you stand out and not end up at the bottom of the pile?

In terms of career, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

[blazing harbor]

tbf if you take leetcode to the next level with CF, there are plenty of companies that recruit directly

[smoky quest]

not really. There is a lot more to a role and interviews than leetcode

[blazing harbor]

I mean there are recruiting competitions in codeforces

[smoky quest]

And I can bet this is not the only filter 😉

[blazing harbor]

could be a great entry 🤷‍♂️

[smoky quest]

not really if you don't have anything else

[blazing harbor]

I'm just saying competitive programming could be a great way to entry and get through resume review esp if you are a codeforce grandmaster

https://codeforces.com/think-cell

[true harness]

it's not a target though. doing competition programming to get recruited is not really the way to go. it's just for fun

[smoky quest]

Not really. It's a pretty low ROI.
You won't get a job just on winning a CP competition

[blazing harbor]

I mean if you are in a good ICPC team, it could mean a lot

[smoky quest]

It would mean you are geat at CP, not necessarily a great engineer

[blazing harbor]

at least for top quant, if you place top 50 in nationals, you are guaranteed an interview at like imc/citadel and maybe even jst with a decent enoguh gpa

and the starting salaries for those jobs go over $400k. I guess their philosophy is that competitive programming or math competitions show a great signal for problem solving abilities and that's what really quant swe is

[smoky quest]

So they will see your resume or talk to you and then reject you because that's all you know

[near ocean]

It doesnt mean its all you can learn

Surely people doing well at these competitions show an above average understanding and intuition of the mathematics involved
They can teach you other stuff

[kindred rock]

Should I study some ML?
It seems to be a very popular thing rn. The upwork is full of that.

Every new project seems to be related to AI...

[blazing harbor]

I mean I think it's a given to have computer science fundamentals down 🤔 but really the rest is just problem solving

t's like 8 rounds of technical + behavioral interview, where they have less focus on projects/etc

they also employ something called creative problem solving that directly involves mathematics

[smoky quest]

It's a very specialized set of skills that isn't really useful in real jobs, even in quant jobs.
It's about what it can demonstrate.

Telling a self learner to go full in on winning a CP competition is very likely to fail. I would also contend the same thing for someone with a degree.

For quant and stuff, they will be competing with students from CMU and other famous school. So that's the bar to beat

[blazing harbor]

I mean it's def going into more harder assesments and less school prestige

smaller firms like JST obviously do not need to recruit farther than cmu/mit/stanford/harvard

with the occasional obvious candidates (IMO, IOI winners) etc

[smoky quest]

JS also famously uses ocaml as a filtering tool 😉

[blazing harbor]

JS is like the cream of the crop; it's good WLB and insane salary

lol my brother in law who is doing his phd in physics and has no programming projects whatsoever got interviews at citadel and jump and a few other quant firms

it's all about having a signal in some field that you are extremely extremely good and intelligent

[smoky quest]

I don't think we can compare a self taught with someone who has a phd in physics

[blazing harbor]

I mean true, but I think if he can really prove that he is top 1% in some field, he might be able to get the attention of quants

[smoky quest]

In general, there are plenty of other super smart new grads from CMU. So for a person to stand out in CP and knows nothing else, that's not very likely.

[blazing harbor]

and cp is just one of those ways, so I wouldn't discredit cp as a bad way of getting recruited

[blazing harbor]

I mean if you are a IOI or ICPC winner, you will def stand out for sure

coincidentally a lot of those grads go to CMU; my brother goes to CMU rn, and he says def a lot of quant recruiting, but being at CMU still doesn't really cut it

[smoky quest]

And you want to say that to the regular 16years old who wants to skip college because math are hard?

[blazing harbor]

if math is hard, this advice is not for you

[smoky quest]

If that advice was for them, they wouldn't be here in the first place

[blazing harbor]

you're not the top 1% I'm talking about

[smoky quest]

The person who is exceptionally smart, smart enough to know nothing and yet be smarter than the CMU candidates that will apply to your company are just non existent. It's not like in the movies

[blazing harbor]

I personally do not do competitive programming since high school, but I know the people at umich who continue to do CP at the ICPC level

they do nothing but ICPC and classes, and they do very well in recruiting

honestly a lot better than me, I have a freshman friend who landed a c1 internship offer which is really good imo