career-advice

[brisk anvil]

it depends on what you want to do

[pine sleet]

its good to know all of those

[fringe sphinx]

Just to agree with KRRT: you’re making a presupposition: that there is an objective ‘best’. Both syllabi look good. Depends what you want. They’re different degrees with different career paths.

[analog patio]

So which is better syllabus from which i send

[kindred oyster]

both sound good to me

[brisk anvil]

what do you want to do?

[analog patio]

Wdym they are same degree syllabus

[brisk anvil]

as in; what job do you want to get after college?

[analog patio]

Which is better

I already send it above

[brisk anvil]

omfg

[pine sleet]

yes, that's why one isn't better than the other

[harsh river]

they're both best.

[kindred oyster]

mhmm

[analog patio]

I mean they have virtual programming and Unix shell programming so isn't the first one better?

[brisk anvil]

i mean
the first one seems to be a more run-of-the-mill course

the second one seems to be more tailored to networking and computer fundamentals, which would be more useful for web dev, cybersecurity, embedded/OS development and the like

[analog patio]

The second one is first one

And first one is second one right

Maybe it's vice verse

See it again and say?

[brisk anvil]

what

[pine sleet]

huh

[fringe sphinx]

We’re all engineers here: the correct answer to most questions is ‘it depends’.

[analog patio]

What did you find in it cybersecurity type for example??

Maybe you are saying first one

[harsh river]

i agree.

[summer roost]

which is better, a screwdriver or a hammer?

[analog patio]

So which is better

[summer roost]

the screwdriver, of course

[uncut pulsar]

Hii

[fringe sphinx]

Wait, you do know I said that exact line today: #python-discussion message

[summer roost]

hah, no, I didn't

I do love the analogy though 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

lol.

[kindred oyster]

hammer

[harsh river]

someone asked it back in 2021 as well

[pine sleet]

I was about to say the same thing with apples and oranges 😔

[analog patio]

So which is better..

[fringe sphinx]

It depends

[summer roost]

for what?

[harsh river]

they're both best.

[brisk anvil]

networking, data communication, ASM, and cryptography

[kindred oyster]

flip a coin , heads = 1st one , tails = 2nd one

[brisk anvil]

lmao

[pine sleet]

that would not yield the better syllabus

not necessarily, at least. as was pointed out it depends

[smoky quest]

it avoids the unlucky school

[analog patio]

That's first one

[harsh river]

then it's objectively better

[analog patio]

Not second one

[analog patio]

So which is better

Both are same?

Then why advertising or in YouTube says select good colleges because they have good syllabus and teaching and everything

But you are saying both are same

🙂

[pine sleet]

i would take career advice from youtube with a grain of salt

[harsh river]

youtube advertises single moms in your areas too, doesn't mean it's true 🙂

[brisk anvil]

watch lectures from both unis, and see which one you likes more

[kindred oyster]

most colleges have very similar syllabus
what differs is the campus , the environment , the teachers , the labs

[pine sleet]

but also, it seems like you're making the college curriculum like a roadmap that will guarantee you a good job immediately if you finish it. this is not at all true @analog patio

[smoky quest]

Am not a teacher but I would suggest to look up what are the alumni up to. It will get you an idea of what jobs they lead to and which one leads to jobs closer to your ideal one

[kindred oyster]

also , just because you know all the subjects a Btech graduate does , doesnt mean you will be treated as just like another btech candidate in placements
a lot of companies still value the degree

[summer roost]

But you are saying both are same
You're misunderstanding the point we're making. It's not "both are the same", it's "different courses and concentrations prepare you for different careers"

[pine sleet]

you will often hear people here say the university you go to doesn't matter too much, as long as it's accredited. the biggest difference is the opportunities and resources you have available, rather than the curriculum. linalg is lingalg generally across the board, for instance. Same with discrete, or even calc

[analog patio]

Bruh why will uni allow to see lectures from them unless you join them

It's not possible bro

I have to pay fees to join and see lectures of there

[brisk anvil]

try, idk, auditing both?

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[analog patio]

Ok so which seems better

For computer science degree

[summer roost]

for what?

[kindred oyster]

you can watch lectures of some of India's top professors from top universities for free

[pine sleet]

it depends

[harsh river]

both are best.

[analog patio]

How and from where..

[harsh river]

are we stuck in a recursion loop here?

[regal tundra]

mit has loads of courses on opencourseware

[pine sleet]

MIT OCW is great stuff

[kindred oyster]

on NPTEL / SWAYAM portal

professors from IIT and NIT have full blown courses on it

[analog patio]

And notes also?

[kindred oyster]

you are in charge of making the notes

[analog patio]

Bruh if whole computer science video is there then why will people got in iit

[regal tundra]

credential mostly

[pine sleet]

IIT is a lot more than the lectures, like any university

[kindred oyster]

to get that piece of paper that says i completed a degree from IIT
because the paper with btech completed written on it still matters a lot

from NPTEL , if you properly follow course and give examinations , you will also get course completion certificate , but that will be just another course certificate and is not same level as a degree certificate

(and yeah , going to a degree college , is a lot more than just getting degree certificate. )

[summer roost]

what do you intend to do with that degree?

[analog patio]

Bruh get a job

But first I have to know which syllabus is better

[harsh river]

both syllabuses will allow you to get a job.

[analog patio]

Now if you wanna know what job then it's ai related

I just wanna know basics and everything about computers before learning specialisation

Which one is better syllabus for that from both

[kindred oyster]

are you planning to follow those syllabus yourself at home , or you want to go to that university and pursue a degree ?

[analog patio]

Yeah uni but first I have to know which syllabus is better and why

[kindred oyster]

then dont focus on syllabus first , both are more or less the same

focus on which college is better , which one has more facilities, which one has good faculties, labs, how is their placement record, what do alumni say about the college and so on

[fringe sphinx]

And which one you get accepted to

[analog patio]

Bruh syllabus should i focus on bro?

[kindred oyster]

you already did

and you have found that both are more or less the same

now move on to next factor to look at

[analog patio]

Because what if other uni is focusing more on improving now and improving themself

And first uni who is already in top is just remaining in top and not at all improving

So that's why I am saying which is better

[analog patio]

But no one told me which is better

[fringe sphinx]

I think you’ve been answered many times.

[regal tundra]

i am a graduate student in computational cognitive science. i code pretty much constantly and have some formal ed in cs but haven't touched/used DSA-type stuff since undergrad now around a decade ago (wow). if i want to transition into industry and have around 6 months to a year to prepare how should i use my spare time? i am not too picky about using my phd / getting a research-oriented job. i just like coding (and money).

[harsh river]

because both degrees are roughly the same thing, now you need to figure out which of the colleges is better.

[summer roost]

I'm having trouble making sense of your screenshots, but neither of them seems to have much of an emphasis on artificial intelligence or machine learning

[kindred oyster]

college matters A HELL LOTE MORE than the syllabus

[analog patio]

Well second one is better

But the problem or what I am confused is if both are same then why the uni who is better doesnt have better syllabus then other uni

[summer roost]

so: whichever one lets you take more electives focusing on linear algebra, AI, and ML is probably the one that's most helpful, not knowing anything about the relative prestige of the different universities

[harsh river]

so you already have an opinion on which one is better? okay, then just do that one then.

[fringe sphinx]

That’s an excellent degree/phd… seems like you should have tons of options, especially if you can code/hands-on. I know some cognitive folks who do self driving car work, for instance

[smoky quest]

Pretty much like for any domain:

• Refresh on the theory and fundamentals
• Practice (Exercises, projects, etc.)

[analog patio]

That's uni

Not syllabus

[harsh river]

so go to the better uni, because both syllabuses are the same thing, essentially.

[kindred oyster]

also , 4 years is a long time

if you feel like you like a subject that is not being taught in your college , you can literally learn it on your own

[regal tundra]

Okay, I do have projects. Theory and fundamentals? So I dust off my DSA book and I'm good to start applying? Also, for what? Am I stuck just going for data sciency gigs? The issue with that is that I don't have much of a machine learning background per se.

[fringe sphinx]

If I were you, I’d embrace my graduate studies and start looking now. I would focus on working on larger and more complex projects: including learning git, for instance.

[smoky quest]

CS is far more than DSA.
I would suggest to backtrack from your ideal role

[analog patio]

What then the question is

But the problem or what I am confused is if both are same then why the uni who is better doesnt have better syllabus then other uni

[summer roost]

I'll be honest, I don't understand the Indian system very well. The prestige of the uni that you go to seems to matter a lot more in India than it does in the west, as far as I can tell

[fringe sphinx]

Who says one is better? We keep saying they are different, neither is ‘better’.

[smoky quest]

Try also to think from the other side:
You are someone who post a job ad online and got thousands of applications. Why would they call you back specifically?

[analog patio]

Like uni who is better said they have better industry oriented syllabus

And if it's same has other uni

Then how the uni is better and they says that industry ones??

[kindred oyster]

there is no objective BETTER syllabus bruh

how many times do you want to hear this and from how many people ?

[regal tundra]

this is what i don't know. the question makes me feel like i should just do a postdoc and try to make academia work. but i honestly don't want to.

[analog patio]

Then why don't everyone who studies in any college become successful or get in google
Because you are like saying syllabus are same
So..?

[smoky quest]

Backtrack from your goal. From there you can figure out the required and desired skills, pool of applicants and how you might be a good applicant

[summer roost]

Because you are like saying syllabus are same
No one is saying that. I'm saying that the syllabii are different, and that which syllabus is more useful for a person depends on which classes that person would most benefit from in their career

[smoky quest]

Leveraging your past experience can also be great leverage

[fringe sphinx]

You have a unique set of skills, through your studies and research. Embrace that, and balance it with SWE skills (through projects). Seek out opportunities where your education is valued.

[pine sleet]

many people use the opportunities and resources available to them, do well in their classes, get internships, do projects on their own. And many don't do any of these things

There's a lot of things that differentiates a successful engineer from one that's not, the syllabus is a very small part

[regal tundra]

hmmm. goal. goal. i need a more concrete goal than to sell out i guess.

[smoky quest]

being motivated just by money doesn't usually end up great either. You would not go as far or be as motivated as someone who does enjoy it

[fringe sphinx]

I love my work.

[kindred oyster]

its like saying , if everyone is taught the same thing , why doesnt everyone get the first rank ?

[analog patio]

😫 😫

[analog patio]

Yeah

And also why college days industry oriented syllabus

If all syllabus of uni is same..??

[fringe sphinx]

Short term goal: tackle increasingly complex programming projects. Learn industry-relevant packages. Maybe get involved in OSS relevant to your dissertation and industry

[smoky quest]

maybe your first step is to figure out what you like and dislike

[pine sleet]

its just buzzwords

[regal tundra]

I mean I'm intrinsically motivated by software project -- it's my favorite part of what i've been doing in this program. I guess that could provide some sort of constraint. need to reflect a sec I guess.

[analog patio]

So which is better

Just look at it one more time

[pine sleet]

they're all good

[kindred oyster]

colleges have to market themselves as well , they throw buzz words in and out to get more people to join their college

ever heard IIT do advertising like this ??
because they dont need to , their college is already at top

[smoky quest]

definitely the left one

[harsh river]

they're both best.

[summer roost]

you will not do well in uni if you refuse to listen to the advice you're given

[analog patio]

Bruh then what is this industry syllabus
And usually people say colleges have old syllabus
Etc..

Not industry ones

Then wt the heck is that

[pine sleet]

it's a pretty average looking syllabus

as in, something you'd expect to see in a CS education

[fringe sphinx]

Where are you at programming wise? Just starting out? Or pretty proficient? Able to tackle largish projects?

[kindred oyster]

both are good , look standard to me

pick the college that has better other factors i listed above like faculties, placements, alumni , facilities, labs , etc

these things matter A LOT more in this case given that you have almost the same syllabus

[regal tundra]

I'd guess that I'm pretty proficient but it's hard to say. I wonder if there's a way to assess oneself objectively. For example, it wouldn't be hard to test whether I know a given area of calculus or not. Is there anything like that for software dev?

[smoky quest]

it may be a good start to describe projects you have done yourself

something concrete

[regal tundra]

So I've written a Python library for implementing and testing cognitive models, and some other libraries tied to that. Some of these are used by other people, some will be before I'm gone. I have a good understanding of software design thanks to a lot of reading I've done. Most people in my department write really messy code, live in jupyter notebooks and the like, but I thinkk I understand how the software dev process actually works. I know how to (and I actually do) write tests, do CI, things like that.

expertise is sort of numerical programming? like whatever julia tends to get used for

[smoky quest]

that sounds pretty cool

[regal tundra]

still i kick myself every day for not getting on the ml/ai bandwagon

[smoky quest]

It's not too late

There is no shortage of people without any credential who jump on it

[regal tundra]

maybe i can try for something in ed tech?

[smoky quest]

Either way, you can see your next job as a distance or cost function: the further away from your current skillset, the more expensive.
So it still goes back to figuring out what you enjoy, the cost between your current state and that desired state and walking backward from that

[regal tundra]

ok thanks for walking me through this. i feel silly looking for help but have been thinking in circles about this stuff forever

[smoky quest]

np. An outsider perspective can be useful.

Feel free to look at actual job ads to see what they feel like.
And since you have a few months, feel free to do actual projects in different areas and to learn more about it

[regal tundra]

ok so this is also something i've been stuck on. i'd love to get serious about contributing to outside projects. but it feels hard to find them -- or maybe the right word is choose? it's a big haystack. maybe i'm overthinking it

if i just chose what to contribute to based on my skills/interests i'd just keep doing what a future cogsci postdoc would do...

though i suppose you suggest stretching myself to find projects closer to the industry that would suit me. even if it's not exactly my wheelhouse. okayy

[smoky quest]

you can start your own little projects to get a feel for it. That doesn't imply OSS contributions

don't over think it. Keep it simple and stupid

[analog patio]

What do you find same in it

And words are different

Topics are different??@smoky quest @pine sleet @summer roost @harsh river @kindred oyster

[pine sleet]

I think we've given you all the information you need to proceed. It's up to you to make your choice now

[smoky quest]

the left one is bigger. It's obvious it's better

[harsh river]

i choose the right one, just to balance things out

[kindred oyster]

the only thing i can tell you is , you are insanely hyper fixated on the not so important thing here

[analog patio]

Bruh 🤣

Just say that you don't have computer degree

Uh any computer degree holder

Help

[smoky quest]

I think this conversation has run its course. Time to move on

[harsh river]

many computer degree holders gave you an answer, you ignored all of them.

[analog patio]

Who gave

No one did

Everyone just made the topic round and round

If anyone give me then i would really appreciate it like early someone give

[harsh river]

recursive_error , godlygeek, are degree holders from this list that i know of, robin and i are computer degree students

i don't know what qualifications, if any @kindred oyster has.

[kindred oyster]

Electronics Engineering, did some SWE job for few months, now looking to do masters in EE

[harsh river]

there you go!

[viral furnace]

If you talking about picking college i don't have a degree but am a student so here's my thinking

Cutoff for your test is relative if everyone does good cutoff goes high if everyone bad it goes low, to challenge yourself i would say get is college where most smart kids went but don't go overboard with it that you might end up at last.

Another important thing about college is alumni because connection will always help throughout your life

Last thing I think is syllabus, it differs college to college

I don't think facilities and teachers really matters cuz mostly u need self study and facilities uh you have your own laptop and room what more do you need?

Didn't really get your question tbh

[analog patio]

My question is which syllabus is better which i send earlier

[viral furnace]

1st one with professional English

[analog patio]

And why?

@viral furnace ??

[viral furnace]

Looks more practical can't explain it to someone who hasn't studied computer science

[buoyant imp]

Hi there,
I just released a new episode on my podcast, "The Right Way To Get Started In Tech: My Story". Even if you've already started but got stuck and had a long pause, this episode is for you.
Listen and give us a follow :)

https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/samuel-ogunleke7/episodes/Episode-1-The-Right-Way-To-Get-Started-In-Tech-My-Story-e2dua2p

[analog patio]

I mean why

Atleast say some reasons

[analog patio]

Great

You are computer degree student or what

[viral furnace]

Do u think if a doctor told you, you need a surgery and you ask him to explain why, you will understand that? It's the same thing

It has more open electives so you can choose exactly what you want to do and is more straight forward with only necessary stuff

[smoky quest]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[analog patio]

Wdym?
Doesnt the other syllabus has skill development and everything which it doesn't have.
And some extra topics also

[viral furnace]

Jack of all trades but master of none

Extra topic but compulsory in electives you can choose your subject more flexibility

Skill development is something you do yourself college doesn't

[digital fjord]

The thing to keep in mind about uni is that you will forget signififanctly more than you will remember. There being more things in the curriculum doesn't matter all that much, since you can always just take more electives if you want to learn about something that isn't mandatory.

[weary sage]

How true is it that a data scientist can handle a data analysis role..someone told me a data scientist is data analyst ready

[white vortex]

Can anyone please give me advice or criticism on this career plan?:

Enlist in 4-year Air Force term,

Learn different languages , leet code, and mathematics during enlistment,

After enlistment is finished, apply for post 9/11 Gi-bill or yellow ribbon program to fully pay for BS degree in Comp Sci tuition.

Get internship during university,

Get work experience,

Land role as software eng at F500 company,

Stay for years,

Start own tech-startup -

[buoyant seal]

if it was in my origin country, i would have said that some problem with it would be that 4 years is a big gap before uni
it would be hard to learn during that time and getting prepared uni.
We usually have ciruculams in school that prepare us for school exams. Easiest to enter BS degree right after school when your knowledge is fresh.
So, may be point to concentrate could be on entrance exams to uni.

[buoyant seal]

Learn different languages , leet code, and mathematics during enlistment,
people learn fine during uni, as long as they have technical aptitude.
So... i guess no harm will be done to prepare yourself a bit in advance, but still exams probably are more important topic to prepare yourself for.

It is interesting idea to concentrate right away on what is supposed to be important after graduation though.
The list of what is important can be somewhat corrected though

[buoyant seal]

Learn different languages , leet code, and mathematics during enlistment,
hopefully u will learn core software engineering disciplines a bit may be too
and besides languages, you will learn how to operate different technologies present there.
mmm... learning to program is essentially all about practice i guess? Learning theoretical material is important too though
u will do yourself tremendously good by just trying to code some stuff. Here are some ideas:
https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html

So i would say it is most important to practice (besides learning some core stuff)
leet code alone is very hallow thing to pursue, there are other multiple topics besides that

i have no comments regarding the rest of the plan, it looks commonly fine starting from trying to get internship during uni and further.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Coder-Conduct-Professional-Programmers/dp/0137081073
U could be giving a reading to Robert Martin Clean Coder, interesting book, teachning about aptitude to work, to learn and to move forward and ethics in general for software engineers

[white vortex]

I actually got kicked out of public high school this year but I ended up getting my high school diploma from an online program, It was the most basic material, no pre calculus or calculus, other than some data base and web page development electives that I took. I want to spend the 4 years studying, practicing coding, and picking up atleast calculus to prepare for UNI

[buoyant seal]

as for Core software engineering subjects, i will recommend only Code Comlete book https://www.amazon.com/Code-Complete-Practical-Handbook-Construction/dp/0735619670
It covers all subjects briefly and recommends readings further. Recommending only single book i will not be overwhelming you

[white vortex]

Thank you, I deeply appreciate your replies @buoyant seal

[buoyant seal]

the main problem will be pretty much determination and having time and energy.
U said u will be spending full time focus on some Air smth stuff.
It would be challenging to train yourself for entirely another path, finding energy and time i think.
Not sure how much hours of your time and energy your main occupation will be taking though.
I guess the most important will be actually having any progress at all that u will not forget.
4 years is a big time. Plenty of time to forget stuff u started during the first year.
(And as i mentioned... some technical aptitude is also required)

[white vortex]

Could developing numerous projects during my enlistment assist?

[buoyant seal]

numerious, or even just several big ones.
For programming, heck yeah.
Most people start coding only when enter uni.
Doing any projects u will be already ahead of most of them. (as long as u don't abandon it and it will be constant dedicated time to that)
With just keeping practicing and not forgetting what u learnt, that would put you already head of most in terms of programming yes.
Stuff u practice every day/week is not easily fading from head, u acquire stuff u will not forget from it.

Some worry here is present only regarding other exams for uni.
They usually test you not only for programming after all, but for school subjects of math and etc.
It would be some challenge to prepare on your own for uni exams
Especially with 4 years gap.

[topaz burrow]

How hard is cybersecurity as career and what skills do I need to become one and land a nice job?

[fringe sphinx]

Air Force is the -best- option (of us military), for completing (or getting some) university. My understanding is every Air Force base has affiliated university programs. I was Army, but was lucky to be stationed near Air Force bases. You should be able to knock out several years taking evening (off shift) courses. You might need 1-2 years post enlistment but you’ll get pretty far. So, I’d view it as: 4 year enlistment while finishing at least 2 years of education. ** my information is a bit dated, so hopefully someone with more recent service can weigh in.

[hearty island]

i wanna take some community college classes in calc 1,2, and 3 for my future MSBA

[vital wyvern]

Tuition assistance for minor classwork and stuff. Most of our bases had college reps in the education center. They weren’t the highest quality though.

That said, education was huge for us while I was in, and it wasn’t unusual to walk into the break room and see someone chewing away at school work.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I was able to finish about 2 years of courses, I just had to get creative with what courses I took (ended up a bit math heavy)

[vital wyvern]

Sorry I wrote a response while I was in bed, lemme tackle that again.

You need to focus on doing well on your ASVAB so you can qualify for some coveted jobs. You do not want to be a crew chief, avionics, security forces, etc., if your intention is to serve a four year enlistment. With an interest in programming (and if you don't desire a wide skillset) you need to be targeting literally the only relevant job that we have that actually produces code, which is 1B4 or Cyber Warfare Operations. (Even then, you're not going to be doing anything remotely dev-related.)

What I'd probably actually recommend, because it's hard to get this job, is to focus on admin/IT. I'd say Intel, but you'll end up in a SCIF and you won't be able to do anything. You can also look into medical.

These jobs should give you ample amounts of downtime to chew away at schoolwork after your CDC's are over with.

Yellow Ribbon and Post-9/11 GI Bill work together-- you can't choose one or the other. That said, it's what enables you to go to high-cost universities. Basically it pays the gap between your yearly tuition cap on the Post-9/11 GI Bill and the tuition of the university.

I supervised a lot of superstar airmen while I was running a shop where they'd get out of their CDC's and immediately launch into college classes. These dudes were also hot shit at work, and we worked hard to make sure that they were taken care of and could meet their goals.

[hearty island]

do colleges take community college credit? does it depend on the college?

[vital wyvern]

Depends on the college. Most of my community college credits were accepted-- some were not.

[hearty island]

i guess i should look into what my college’s policy is

[vital wyvern]

My local community college offers a plan in conjunction with state universities to ensure that your community college classes are audited prior to taking them for acceptance by state universities.

[fringe sphinx]

You mentioned calc: calc is (afaik) one of the easier to transfer because it's fairly well standardized. But yah, depends on the college.

[fringe sphinx]

Same... our local CC/State U has well-defined transfer policies... but even the private U's will be fairly reasonable.

[vital wyvern]

SANS accepted all of my college credits except 6, and even then, went back and audited those two courses for credit requirements and accepted them when I only needed a single gen-ed class to graduate. So that was a pretty positive experience.

[hearty island]

i’m looking at Baruch’s MSBA for example and they’re saying it’s better to talk to a college advisor

[white relic]

Depends on the course too. For example, I couldn't take statistics at my local Community College because it wasn't calculus based. But if I had been in a different program at my university non-calculus-based statistics would have been fine

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, for sure, we're just talking in generalities. It's always better to talk to the school.

[vital wyvern]

100% interact with your advisor and inform them of your goals. Talking to your community college advisor and the state/private college administrations councilor will help you get a better picture of what you should be doing credit wise before enrolling.

[hearty island]

gotcha, ok. yeah i don’t want to spend money without making sure first.

[vital wyvern]

Yeah-- that's not a remotely unusual concern, and with appropriate communication, it's something they are equipped and able to help you navigate.

[fringe sphinx]

https://enrollmentmanagement.baruch.cuny.edu/undergraduate-admissions/transfer-credit-evaluation/

<If you are planning to transfer from a non-CUNY college, you can contact a transfer admissions advisor for a brief overview of how credits would transfer.>

[hearty island]

oh i’m planning on doing my MSBA, does that mean i’m transferring?

[fringe sphinx]

I believe it would still be considered "transfer credit"

[hearty island]

ah ok

[vital wyvern]

It sounds like you're trying to go to a CC first. If you're bringing external credits, those are transfer credits.

[fringe sphinx]

I think Damian is trying to knock out pre-requisites for a masters program, rather than transferring the credits into the program

[hearty island]

^ yes sorry, should’ve been more clear

[vital wyvern]

AH. I think that's... still transfer credits actually, even if they're prerequisite; at least I'd imagine they're handled the same way in that they're evaluated for relevance and accepted by the university before beginning the master's program. I may be misunderstanding however.

[white relic]

They are still transfer credits if they are earned outside the same university system never mind, I think I misunderstood

[hearty island]

i need to find out if i can do their MSBA program online too

baruch is much cheaper than GWU

but GWU’s course catalog is much more data analytics focused…. baruch seems prehistoric

[fringe sphinx]

if you haven't taken calc, check out these resources (the message, and following message): #data-science-and-ml message

[hearty island]

yep, i’m gonna be doing the mit ocw course

[vapid jay]

advice for 33 year old and self taught trying to break into a tech career?

[pine sleet]

What's your previous work experience like? Education? Are you in the U.S?

[gritty rivet]

What have you tried so far?

When you say "tech career" do you have certain specific roles in mind to start?

[vapid jay]

I'm in the US. Not much work experience (haven't had a job since pre-pandemic). No degree.

[vapid jay]

I generally apply to webdev listings and python job listings, as javascript/typescript and pyhon are the languages I know (more javascript/typescript). I know I want to be a software developer. I completed a coding bootcamp a few years ago too. I just had various family and life emergiences happening during and post-pandemic that interrupted a lot of stuff

I mainly have been using python to learn data structures and algorithims for solving leetcode style stuff

[dawn harness]

helllo

[pine sleet]

I'm gonna be blunt but it's going to be tough. Not impossible, but tough. A lot of your competition will be fresh grads with CS degrees, internships, and great projects, and also many senior developers getting back into the job hunt after leaving their companies for whatever reason. The bottom line is, you need to put yourself in the shoes of the hiring manager or interviewer, and ask - "why should I hire this person over this other person?"

[gritty rivet]

Are you getting any interviews? How much feedback have you had on your resume and portfolio?

[vapid jay]

Yeah I had a feeling, and it's what I have been told by others in the field. I kinda struggle in a classroom setting which is why I'm hesitant about going back to college (also I have debt for that bootcamp but don't have to pay til I find a job..) whereas with programming I find it easier and funner to learn since I get to just focus on what I'm learning. I guess my issue every time I've tried college is having to take unrelated classes and the compsci classes feel like they are at a snails pace

[vapid jay]

it's been over a year and a half since my last interview >_<

[pine sleet]

yeah I get that, but the fact of the matter is that CS degree holders generally have a better go at it when it comes to their careers. I, and everyone else here, would highly recommend going back for that degree, even if it feels like a slog.
Also

I find it easier and funner to learn since I get to just focus on what I'm learning. I guess my issue every time I've tried college is having to take unrelated classes
is a big reason why college is beneficial, you most likely won't be learning topics that you don't find fun on your own, so college forces you to do that instead. a lot of these topics are important

[vapid jay]

I understand. I guess if I do 4 semesters a year (spring, summer, fall, winter) I could get a bachelors in 2 years, it's just being 33 going on 43I kinda want job and income now I'd like to start being able to afford to live on my own more sooner rather than later. I do feel since I already have experience with programming some of the compsci classes will be a breeze especially the beginning ones. But I'd also have to start math from the beginning as I'm extremely rusty, I'm mostly familiar with algebra and I know I'd have to eventually learn calculus.

I feel like I'm a decade behind a lot of people cause I had to spend a lot of my early life with health issues

[pine sleet]

yeah, that's a common issue for those going back to college later on, so you're not alone in that.
another option is starting off with some lower barrier to entry type jobs that help you get your foot in the door, i.e IT, support, qa, that sort of thing while you work on your degree. much easier to pivot once you're done with the degree with the combined degree + experience combo

[pine sleet]

everyone takes different paths through life/career, don't feel bad about it

[knotty jasper]

Is there anybody here who has done/is knowledgeable with respect to the University of Birmingham's conversion course in computer science?

[vapid jay]

true

luckily the community colleges in Seattle are pretty good and I could transfer over to UW or somewhere from there. and I am lucky I have family support....but the prospect of years of college is a tad scary and overwhelming lol!

[pine sleet]

it can be! and it's not your fault. but you can do it :)

[gritty rivet]

Do a search on LinkedIn and I'm sure you can find someone there

[gritty rivet]

Back in my mid-30s I needed a career reset too. My wife and I had no real choice but to move in with my parents.

A bit along the lines of what Avian suggested, I did a ConpTIA A+ certification to break into desktop support. That got me on my feet and into the tech field while I figured out what to do next. Three years later we bought a house and a year after that I became a Python developer at significantly better pay

The bar for entry in general IT support is way lower than software engineering when you have no degree or experience, and it's way easier to pursue a degree when you're financially independent

[fringe sphinx]

Totally feel you, consider evening/community college to chip away at it. Knock out the associates, at least, and then reevaluate. Evening/part time programs help you build your foundation. Many employers also will pay portions of evening/professional develop@ent

[vapid jay]

My foundations are decent (other than data structures and algorithims leetcode stuff). I have some personal and group projects under my belt, as well as a few hackathons. I'd say I'm at the level where I can do a lot of things with programming. Like I can go through a languages or frameworks documentation, and build various apps and tools with it

I'm also at a point where I may not mind going into debt for college and I have the ability to go full time since my rent and food is covered by my family

[fringe sphinx]

Im just repeating the advice already given: the best path is to complete your degree, while building up skills through increasingly challenging projects and gaining internship experience. This is the ‘normal’ path that employers look for and the one that sets you up for the most opportunities. I’m a hiring manager and will almost never consider a non-degree entry candidate: currently, I won’t at all (due to ample supply of degrees candidates )

[vapid jay]

I really appreciate the pov of a hiring manager. Do you happen to work at one of the fang companies?

I'm not gonna ask for work btw just curious lol

[fringe sphinx]

But, if you don’t go straight for a degree and can land some entry or adjacent position (qa, support, etc), keep working towards a degree

[fringe sphinx]

No, I’m in small tech now. I’ve worked in big tech but not FAANG. FAANG is going to be even harder: everybody wants a job there

[pine prawn]

Hi, Is there some American person here?

[vapid jay]

What if I start doing contract work for small businesses? As I do have an upcoming contract work opportunity. Mainly for changing the websites of small businesses for their needs

[fringe sphinx]

Thats just not the same as landing a corporate SWE job, and learning from other senior engineers. It’s just a different path: web dev is solid work, and for people with great complementary design skills, it can be a successful path. But web devs are relatively easy to find and replace.

[vapid jay]

Maybe it's something I can do while in college too

[fringe sphinx]

That absolutely. 💯

[true harness]

there are a few

[pine prawn]

I'm just curious about the wage of internship developer in America. I know America is great but i would know how some stuff about the wages

[true harness]

these statistics are easily searchable online. it varies widely by location, so you should be specific when searching

[pine prawn]

yes i know i'll read it but i don't understand many things. I know that some stuff but i read that a rent of a flat in a big city cost a lot so i don't understand is if affordable.

[smoky quest]

you can expect many internships to cover the living costs at the very least

[pine prawn]

Cover the cost a living in a big city? Really? I saw in a some place that the cost of a room can be even up to $2500 for month. Am I in wrong?

How much is payed an internship?

[smoky quest]

You are probably looking into renting out a palace for that price

[smoky quest]

it depends on the internship, your education, your skills, etc.
So it can go from 0 to infinity

[pine prawn]

Do you know how much you pay for month for rent a small flat in a big city?

[smoky quest]

you look online on websites like craigslists

you can also reduce costs by renting a room and sharing an apartment rather than renting out a whole place

[pine sleet]

also if you're worried about affordability, it's cheaper if you split it with a roomate

[pine prawn]

I'll do, but i'm afraid to do mistake, some price seems really too high, so this why i asked here.

I see there is some people who work in a city (maybe in California) but they're wages are too low to rent a flat. Is it possible?

[smoky quest]

it is possible that there are wages that make it difficult to rent in some areas.
It's also known that people working in CS do get a higher wage as well

[pine prawn]

I know even this is a very "difficult" question but how much cost a full medicare insure?

[smoky quest]

the employer will pay most of it.

[pine prawn]

yes, but i know that but here people say you can spend like 800$ a month. I don't know if it's true

[smoky quest]

it's not true

[pine prawn]

thanks

[pine prawn]

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/apa#search=1~gallery~0~0 i see the average price is 2336$ So where i wronging?

[smoky quest]

Well you should aim below the average 😉
You will be an intern.

See also the rooms for rent: https://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/roo#search=1~gallery~0~0

[turbid bobcat]

A lot of those come with pools. You should go for the ones without pools

[pine prawn]

😱 so expansive

[pine prawn]

Yes, but i'm also shock by the price

[near ocean]

You should go for house shares instead

[smoky quest]

Welcome to adulthood!

That's why a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[turbid bobcat]

I'm guessing rentals follow avg salary

[smoky quest]

LA also has quite a few nice places you could rent. That does skew the results

like https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/apa/d/west-hollywood-stunning-modern-castle/7695382492.html

[turbid bobcat]

I'd classify some of those as luxury

[turbid bobcat]

Sigh, and here I am paying 450 for my modest house.

[pine prawn]

Why adulthood sucks?😭

[near ocean]

It doesnt

[smoky quest]

I didn't say it sucks

[near ocean]

Adulthood is great, you just need to figure out some admin stuff in the beginning

[pine prawn]

Could I ask where you live?

[turbid bobcat]

Portugal at the moment

[smoky quest]

I guess this ain't LA hills

[fringe sphinx]

And make sure to do regular maintenance.

[turbid bobcat]

Literal middle of nowhere, came here to make savings while remoting to London

[smoky quest]

Portugal is beautiful too

[near ocean]

How did you get london companies agreeing to let you remote outside the UK?

[turbid bobcat]

It is a good place to retire, but not v good for career

[near ocean]

My current company chose to let a workhorse senior go instead of letting them move to italy

[smoky quest]

should be fine with remote staying a valid path

[near ocean]

They had to hire 3 of us juniors to spread his workload

[turbid bobcat]

I don't know, wasn't that hard, but this was b4 all the layoffs

[pine prawn]

I'm in Italy and here is good place to stay if you work total remote

[near ocean]

Heh i think i'd rather move to portugal too tbh

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah that's true, a lot of people here do remote too

[pine prawn]

Portogal is a great place to stay, i love it

[pine prawn]

I'm trying to pointing to have a remote works, but idk how to do it?

[turbid bobcat]

I don't intend to stay tho, I saw a little bit of the world and I got addicted, I wanna live in other places, experience other cultures, all that fun stuff

[turbid bobcat]

Last time I found a job using cord.co

Best way is being a contractor, but you can also do third party. I think contractor is easier on both company and employee

[near ocean]

Miss out on a lot of benefits though

[pine prawn]

Thanks for the advice i'll check it but i must improve my skill before doind the application. Now i sucks in coding skills.

[pine prawn]

If do you work from Dubai your taxes are 0?

[near ocean]

Dubai makes up for its income tax in other ways

[turbid bobcat]

Yes their income tax is 0, I was there last year and asked people personally. I think there's only one upper bracket that pays

[pine prawn]

Work and live in Japan should be wonderful

[analog sun]

Doesn't Japan have a culture of working 80 hours a week, and it is unpaid overtime?

[pine prawn]

I have heard that but idk for real, but i mean full remote.

[fringe sphinx]

I've never gotten paid overtime as a SWE :/

[analog sun]

I'm salaried as well, but I can trade off super long days with short days, and can earn comp days if weekend work / holidays is required (I'm just an engineer though, not SWE)

[pine prawn]

anyway thanks to all of you for your answers

[vapid jay]

fuck no. i live in japan rn and i constantly get shitted on by
my older brother about how terrible office politics are.

ive already decided to leave this country and the us might ? be better

[pine prawn]

I know some people who live very well there. Could you explain me in depth?

[vapid jay]

in japanese jobs, the pay is average but you work overtime especially in tech jobs

sometimes its unpaid, on top of that, you have office politics from other expats and japanese people who are looking to compete. On the highest levels eg - head of it, devops specialist, any kind of tech specialist, there is alot of pressure from managers to finish deadlines set by poor management

so compared to other countries, japanese tech jobs, even ones from international brands IN japan are not really worth it

[pine prawn]

Is bad even if you work full remote for an american company?

[vapid jay]

that might be better i think idk my brother and i came here because of the educational oppurtunities tbh. There are some good tech unis here (not AS good as american ones tho)

again, it depends on you and what your goal is in the country

[smoky quest]

What would be bad for you?
It wouldn't change much since you would remain in your country, pay the same salary than other job in your countries, etc.

[wary laurel]

do you need 'very good' coding skills to get into devops - i feel like i'll always be an average skilled coder

thats why im pessimistic on being a backend dev

[pine prawn]

Here the salary is low, and i like expensive things😅

[smoky quest]

companies pay based on your location, not their HQ.
Why would they pay the same salary than someone local for someone on a different timezone, culture, governement/tax/retirement/benefits?
When companies relocate to cheap countries (china, vietname, ukraine, etc.), it's not because they pay the same salaries and same benefits 😉

[wary laurel]

hows pay like in dubai for someone working with a western passport? i heard indians make the salary of tech jobs low in dubai due to their competition

[smoky quest]

the rule of thumb here is to upskill yourself rather than aiming lower

[wary laurel]

my skills lie more in managment

[smoky quest]

Sure. That doesn't change the answer though.
If you don't want to upskill, then look for other jobs with less coding like sysadmin. But automation has become prevalent

[wary laurel]

is devOps as intensive in coding as backend?

[smoky quest]

nope

[wary laurel]

so why not devops instaed of sysadmin lol

[pine prawn]

I live in the only place where salary decrease, productivity is stable, tax are high and demography is reducing. So not a good place where you wanna be.

[smoky talon]

Is anyone here familiar with Amazon Web Services (aws)? I'm 15 years old right now and I'm interested in this field and wonder if it will be worth it,

[true harness]

there are a few

[smoky quest]

there is still coding involved

[deft herald]

Interested in using it or interested in working for it?

[wary laurel]

that's fine, jsut that i'll never be big big brain at it

[smoky quest]

From the employer's perspective: sounds like your problem 😉
And moving to a better area might be a solution

[smoky talon]

working for/with it, I hear a lot of suggestions about it.

[deft herald]

You mean you want to use AWS for something right?

(as opposed to obtaining employment at amazon)

[smoky talon]

Yes, for cloud computing

[pine prawn]

Yep, this a very good place to live, but you need to work for others.

[deft herald]

Well, you're in #career-advice so that's why i was asking 🙂

[smoky quest]

it doesn't sound like a place where you would want to be an entrepreneur anyway

[smoky talon]

I want to get a job with it too and I heard it was high demand, but not working for amazon if thats what you were asking

[deft herald]

i see i see

[deft herald]

Well yeah i think a good place to start would be building your own projects that use it

[pine prawn]

i could add corruptions and extremely slow justice

[deft herald]

If you enjoy it, keep those projects going as you obtain some education in whatever relevant field

[smoky talon]

I was thinking of that. And I want to be familiar with aws to the point where i get the official certification for it

[deft herald]

That's a great goal

[gritty rivet]

The AWS CCP isn't super difficult, but probably kind of pointless if you're still in high school

I would focus on projects. What do you want to do with it? Just dive in and build!

[deft herald]

I mean, it could be some cool bragging rights to say you got the cert before college

[true harness]

it honestly doesn't matter that much ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[smoky talon]

You're right, I still have a lot to go since I'm only a freshman. I'll start focusing more on building projects for portfolios.

[deft herald]

Also you're in high school. You don't need to worry about your career right now IMO

[smoky talon]

Thanks for the advice tho

[true harness]

it is true that most of the things you do in high school will be overshadowed by what you do in college. but planning and programming things you like/are interested in is good

[deft herald]

lol the reactions. All im saying is that it shouldnt be a source of stress. Sure, set goals, come up with plans, etc

[smoky talon]

I was told that starting early would make it easier, and that if I keep it up that I'd get a job right out of high school

[deft herald]

i do see a lot of people unnecessarily worrying about it though at this age

[true harness]

you'll have a head start, but not really enough that you'll be able to get a job right out of high school

[smoky talon]

yeah i do stress about it sometimes

[smoky quest]

I would recommend to aim for a good college right out of high school

[fringe sphinx]

You're already winning. Find projects that interest you and build on it, get involved with & contribute to communities you're interested in. Become an expert at your thing. Or, learn lots of different things. As long as you're learning, you're winning.

[smoky talon]

that made me feel 10 times better and motivated me, thanks so much

[muted bridge]

i don't think you can do that but having a headstart is amazing

internships are next to impossible for high schoolers to aim for but i suggest summer programs

i attended carnegie mellon's computer science summer program (they have one for AI and CS) when i was your age

very good experience i recommend looking into it

[smoky talon]

Do you have the direct link to the program?

[muted bridge]

https://www.cmu.edu/pre-college/academic-programs/computer-science-scholars.html

although the program is mainly for complete beginners

[gritty rivet]

Don't play on hard mode... Focus on going to the best university you can, to get the best internships you can, and your career will benefit for the rest of your life.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, if you're motivated / and have nothing else to do over the summer: besides pre-college programs, you can also take college courses over the summer at local universities. My son took 3 college courses (sophomore and junior summers) in HS.

(but I 100% agree with dowcet... definitely don't "grind" or try to out-compete the next person)

[storm nymph]

idk if this is the right place to post this but can someone link me to pycharm free edition

[wild warren]

wrong

im in HS and we alr have a DSA course, networking course, stuffs like that. and an internship program that we need to find a tech internship to pass

dont be complacent in HS

[rough patrol]

I am currently working as software engineer in a remote company. But i feel good by seeing you guys discussion here.

[wispy tendon]

i was reading a resume guide and it said that it's good to keep all bullet points around the same length to make the resume look more uniform. Is this a good idea? I feel like this would make it harder to skim since it would take up so much white space.

[true harness]

that doesn't really make sense to me

[wispy tendon]

like they're all one line long but to take up the entire line for each bullet point

[fringe sphinx]

yah, doesn't make much sense to me either... unless one is a long paragraph and the others are short bullets... that sounds more like something for marketing copy.

[true harness]

I mean, in the extreme case yes, but in general, just make them as long as they need to be

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs is a good example, and the lines are fairly succinct / single line. But, it's perfect normal to see two line bullets in resumes.

Like, this is also ok to me: https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/awesome-cv/dfnvtnhzhhbm

[wispy tendon]

thank you

[smoky quest]

When confronted to these types of advice, always take a step back and ask yourself why that matters and what is the intended outcome or goal here?
Just taking them at face value is no different than any random grandma advice. Some are real, some are rooted in something but inapplicable due to being outdated or a different situation, or it's just youtube/tiktok clickbait altogether

[deft herald]

I mean that's awesome. I'm all for taking college credit in HS. But I 100% stand by what I said earlier. You shouldn't be stressing about a career in high school

[robust island]

I mean (the end of) high school is definitely a good time to think about what you want to do, depends what you mean by "stressing"

[placid briar]

Reading the past comments, is it worth learning programming over other things in highschool? I'm trying to have atleast one language to almost a career level by college, but I'm not sure if it's worth sacrificing other experiences in highschool I'll never have again.

[deft herald]

Causing anxiety

[robust island]

There's certainly a balance to everything

[fringe sphinx]

I thought I wanted to be a music major up until senior year. (I’m agreeing)

[deft herald]

Yeah this is kind of my point. I thought I wanted to be a film editor. It's okay to change your mind.

[pine sleet]

if you want to, you can use your time to HS to try different stuff without too much penalty

[wild warren]

ofc its worth it many ppl start before high school even and theres so many diff cs fields u can try in HS to know what u awnna focus on

[deft herald]

But obviously steer clear of anything outside of CS

/s

[junior vapor]

Hello there, i'm looking for some advice on career paths. I'm currently an undergrad for a CS major. I just finished my first semester. I'm still not quite sure what i would do with my degree after finishing. But I'm quite intrested in things related to researching and innovation, but still not quite certain cause it seems like its quite a niche field, with mostly low income. My peers seem to direct to me to becoming some sort of analyst. Some advice could really help.

[vapid jay]

research and innovation pays alot if you got a phd and you can work as a freelancer

[junior vapor]

Oh, but how would that work, do i just pick a company and just stick to them till done. Cuz i am a bit worried, i may just become hyper-reliant to a certain field. And also how do i even get into the field?

[smoky quest]

What is research and innovation for you?

What parts or activities specifically interest you?

[junior vapor]

my thinking is basically newer technology, be it apps or tech i could work backend. but i also seen people researching on like specific algorithms publishing papers on them making them faster and better. the part that really intrest me would probably be the contribusive aspect, idk this might sound a little egoistic but i really want to feel like i contributed some way to the world

[smoky quest]

I mean, any tech focused company would do since their product is tech focused and are requires innovation.

It will be less focused on producing paper and more on contributing to a product delighting users

[junior vapor]

oh i see, so i could just choose any company along my intrest. i know there no guarentee that the one i picked would simply acc me. would it be easier to start with bigger companies or smaller ones like startups

[smoky quest]

That will be company and role specific. Even team specific sometimes
Obviously, while some financial companies are at the forefront and evaluating blockchain and stuff, some other banks may be very old school and not innovating at all

[junior vapor]

oh i see so theres a chance a some job offers might lead to a dead end huh. is there i anything i could look out for

[smoky quest]

the job description would make it quite explicit.
You can look for things like "feature teams" or startups comparing to big companies

[junior vapor]

i see so it seems like theres lots of options, but either way i'd have to stick to one to build experience.

is there any chance for like a "breakthrough" or like sudden increase in income like that or will i always have to be dependant on higher ups

[fringe pine]

I wanted to be an architect :C

[smoky quest]

you mean like a lottery?

[junior vapor]

more like time investment. like whether or not i could grow as a programmer is connected directly to whether or not the company suceeds or not

more often i hear of people switching companies than sticking to one for 'growth' why is that

[smoky quest]

most cases of hypergrowth would be linked to equity growth. Like the startup becomes successful. But that also implies taking a job that pays less comparing to bigco

[junior vapor]

ah i see, that makes a lot of sense

aghh i dont know choosing a path seems quite hhard rn

it seems going into the field could be quite harsh. iknow nothing can quite guarentee a persons success but idk i gues

[smoky quest]

use your internships to discover different environments and how they work

but if you prefer innovation, have some risk taking, then startups might be fun for you

[junior vapor]

i see, i'll build up my career slowly, i guess theres no rush to decide

[smoky quest]

there are also meetups you could join

but yeah, you have plenty of time and there is no right or wrong answer.

[junior vapor]

if i may ask how did you start out? recursive

[smoky quest]

I have done all sorts of things, from large to small companies

[junior vapor]

oow and how did that turn out are sticking to one company now, are you comfortable?

haha that might be alittle long/private, sorry if i pried too much,

thanks for the advice r

[smoky quest]

In the USA, it's uncommon to stick with one company. Most engineers will change job every so often

You would need some incentives to stick with one (you are the founder, lots of equity, high growth, etc.)

[silk mauve]

The worst thing you can do is have decision paralysis, just need to go for something, and switch when you realize it no longer is fruitful

[harsh river]

a little OT, but doesn't that depend on the generation? older generation are more likely to stick with one company vs new gens where job hop is standard for better pay?

[smoky quest]

sure, less so in tech though

That also goes back to a time where companies had pensions and other incentives for employees to stick around

[silk mauve]

I agree, I think these days it's more about industry than generation, my GF is mortified by how much I've jumped around, her being an architect (not the cloud kind)

The joke is there's no reason for it, I only see evidence of her getting abused and taken advantage of as an employee, the exact reasons we in tech have all but given up on loyalty.

[smoky quest]

There is always loyalty. You will see quite frequently someone leaving, and then somehow, a bunch of their coworkers/reports joining them

[silk mauve]

Tru, loyalty to anti-loyalty lmao

[smoky quest]

loyalty to people vs loyalty to a faceless corp

as the says go: people leave bosses, not companies

and the converse works as well

[sleek ravine]

Hello i'm new in this server and i want to start studin python anyone can help me beacouse i want to use python in my life

[lean crescent]

Hi,
I might be able to help.

[vapid jay]

import numpy as np
import pyautogui
import os

# Load images from the folder
folder_path = ''
image_files = [f for f in os.listdir(folder_path) if f.endswith('.png') or f.endswith('.jpg')]
images = {f: cv2.imread(os.path.join(folder_path, f)) for f in image_files}

while True:
    # Capture screenshot
    screenshot = pyautogui.screenshot()
    screenshot = cv2.cvtColor(np.array(screenshot), cv2.COLOR_RGB2BGR)

    for image_file, image in images.items():
        # Apply template Matching
        res = cv2.matchTemplate(screenshot, image, cv2.TM_CCOEFF_NORMED)
        threshold = 0.8
        loc = np.where(res >= threshold)

        for pt in zip(*loc[::-1]):
            print(f"Detected {image_file} at location {pt}")
            cv2.rectangle(screenshot, pt, (pt[0] + w, pt[1] + h), (0,0,255), 2)

    # Display the resulting frame
    cv2.imshow('Screen', screenshot)

    # Exit if ESC key is pressed
    if cv2.waitKey(1) & 0xFF == 27:
        break

cv2.destroyAllWindows()``` is this a good image recognition script? am tryna make a hack

[fringe sphinx]

This is career discussion. Ask in #python-discussion

[fringe sphinx]

Also, personal growth depends on more than just changing companies: in big companies, there are roles where you’re constantly learning and challenged. There may also be opportunities to change ‘teams’, to work on something different every few years. Some people stick with a big company because it’s fulfilling. Me, I’m the same as recursive… I’ve moved around, generally when I stopped enjoying/growing at the company.

[fringe sphinx]

But also; some people stick at a single company because they are just there for the paycheck: growth isn’t important to them. You’ll find plenty of these people at every company, not everyone is as motivated as you.

[near ocean]

Paycheck growth stagnates with tenure
If paycheck is on their mind they'd be changing jobs regularly

[fringe sphinx]

There’s diminishing returns after a certain point. First few jobs (junior to senior), you can get big bumps… but there are diminishing returns. As a manager, I try to make sure we bump the best juniors quickly so they don’t leave for salary reasons.

[digital fjord]

If you have enough of a paycheck, it can be worthwhile just staying in a job you kinda like, rather than switching all the time for the bigger raises.

[lusty ocean]

I have zero knowledge of programming I studied pharmacy and I'm working as a pharmacist in the past 10 years. If I learned python what careers or job can I find and Can I make my own projects and money without working in companies and what do you think of Angela Yu udemy does it worth it??

[lusty ocean]

What I should learn to be research analyst?? Beside with Python and what python catagories do I need??

[gritty rivet]

Look for yourself at what the local job market is like. See what entry level listings mention Python. There will probably be backend web development, data analytics and other stuff.

Without strong skills and experience, freelancing is usually a pipe dream, especially if you live in an advanced economy where $5/hour isn't enough . You can look on Upwork and Fiverr to see what you'd be up against. Getting a normal job is the way to go

Yu's 100 Days of Code looks decent, maybe a bit challenging. There are free options like FreeCodeCamp you might try first

[gritty rivet]

You can look for roadmaps online. I think roadmap.sh has one

[lusty ocean]

So it's better to forget the who idea

[gritty rivet]

If you say so

[fringe sphinx]

General advice for career changers is to build off what you already have/know. Data analyst + pharmacist might be an interesting background. Maybe look at medical tech companies? Skill wise, there are some data analyst professional development programs (often a small set of college courses, Not a full degree). I’d look at local universities or online universities and look for a certificate program (from a university, not a ‘Python programming cert’)

Example: https://professional.uchicago.edu/find-your-fit/certificates/data-science-business

[lusty ocean]

The problem I don't have 12500 $ for this course unfortunately thank you for advice I'm trying to get data analysis courses from Maven Analytics but unfortunately I don't have enough money now will try to find cheap ways to get

[lofty zephyr]

Any folks at a non-SWE job but still use Python everyday?

[fringe sphinx]

To be honest, I’ve known lots of people to switch from professional fields to ‘analyst’ roles without formal education or certificates or anything. You -may- want to consider just looking for positions that will value your pharmacy background: look for medical and pharma companies, maybe network with your pharma reps too. I know a few nurses who made the transition to tech companies. Learning Python or anything technical is good to broaden your knowledge, and demonstrate your motivation to learn… you’ll still have a lot to learn.

[pearl reef]

im a total noob and now i dont have many career options due to health id love suggestions for websites that have you do projects to learn.. thats how my brain works. sorry if this is the wrong channel. i dont know where to post this. any help is appreciated. hope everyone is having a great new year!!

[fringe sphinx]

For general project ideas and learning Python, start in #python-discussion . More people who are just starting out there!

[silk mauve]

Sometimes it's less about trying to get the max paycheck, especially for the motivationally challenged, and just about the most money for the least amount of work. There's some big programs at big companies that need to hire so many people, you literally get lost in the weeds

Knew people who just sat in their cube and watched movies at my first job, as long as you're not breaking HR rules or stealing money from the company, basically impossible to get fired.

[eager stratus]

Hello everyone

who can work with me for developing chatbot?

[fringe sphinx]

Please look at channel description before posting, this is careers topics. If you need help, you can ask in #python-discussion or open a help thread #❓｜how-to-get-help

[eager stratus]

okay

[tender perch]

Where to find a flask / django remote internship that actually needs you
I keep sending resume in the country I am but I think it is really java centric
Help please 🙏

[peak halo]

are you a university student?

[tender perch]

Yes

[peak halo]

does your university have a career services center?

[tender perch]

Yes but we all have to find internships by ourselves, they have Conventions of course, they sign for us when we get internship, it is the paperwork that engage the university recognize your internship with the employer who also have to sign...bla bla bla

[dense geode]

So I'm considering applying to CS and Computer System engineering, I'm not sure what to put as my first pick though, what do yall recomend?

[eternal apex]

hi

[tender perch]

Hello

[gritty rivet]

These titles don't mean much in the abstract. You have to look at the programs themselves.

You also need to be clear about your goals and what you want to get out of them.

It could be helpful to graduates of each on LinkedIn. Who's doing what you want to be doing. Don't hesitate to reach out to people.

[pine sleet]

Hi, we don't allow recruiting/advertising on this server. Kindly delete this

[polar basin]

Looks very much like a recruitment post "people who want to work on this...contact me in private..."

We don't have anywhere on this server for a "let's get together and discuss an idea" groups, unfortunately, due mainly to this exact problem: they get hijacked by people pretending to recruit for "educational groups", but who are actually looking to recruit for paid work. Thus we don't allow recruitment of this kind - we cannot verify that it's the latter or the former.

[wicked patrol]

guys i need help

any someone Perfects python

[fringe sphinx]

Just go ahead and ask. But: If it's a coding question, you probably want #python-discussion , this is #career-advice

[polar basin]

We recommend that sort of thing go to a forum more amenable to longer-term visibility of the post, anyway, such as Redditt. Alternatively just be enthusiastic about what you're working on, perhaps post something useful in #1051603408597024828 based on what you've been playing with, and build more organic relationships that way.

[errant thicket]

hey chat hey how could i make money coding without a job is freelance the only way? if so what’s the best freelance to do?

DAY 1 i know someone in here makes money coding from home without a job he has to be in here… whoever you are pls let’s talk

[fringe sphinx]

So, you're excluding remote jobs?

[errant thicket]

no i am not i’ll do that i didn’t know that

i would love to work from home

[fringe sphinx]

There's certainly a lot of remote jobs in tech, not easy to get, but they do exist.

And more hybrid jobs... in office & remote.

[errant thicket]

what route should i take i only know python and html email development

i think ima take the html email development route

[errant jacinth]

Eh, that's... a short resumé 🥴
Perhaps you'd be interested in taking a bootcamp/course to expand on your skills?

[errant thicket]

true so what should i learn i’m gonna learn them all today

[errant jacinth]

I'm not totally sure about what you might mean by 'HTML email development', so I'll presume that you mean web development; yeah, there's quite a few remote jobs dedicated to it.

[errant thicket]

python check next ?

[errant jacinth]

Well, you tell me! I don't know what you want to do. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

There's no definitive roadmap, learn what interests you and adds to your belt of useful skills

[errant thicket]

https://youtu.be/A4_TFHzqAAg?si=FJfHKd0ETIzoDiNh

[dire summit]

if you are doing web development its best to know javascript

[errant thicket]

ok thanks

[errant thicket]

i’m gonna do this i gotta try to become the next elon musk

x

[dire summit]

where im at we use wordpress and i ended up having to use javascript for the things i wanted it always comes up in web development

[robust island]

I am curios for when I get to this point though: what are some ways to get internships in college? Should you look for career fairs nearby, will the university typically help you find some, or should you just look online for local/large businesses?

[errant jacinth]

Meet your new best friends; Indeed and LinkedIn :D

[true harness]

D. all of the above

[errant jacinth]

Jokes aside, it depends.
My university does have a department dedicated to promoting internships to students (it's literally required to have X hours as an intern for your degree to be effective), but I mostly did out of my free will and researched about the opportunities

My personal experience was to not wait and just start on my own.

[robust island]

That sounds reassuring that it's required, sounds like it's hard not to get one then

[errant jacinth]

Wish I did wait though, the department offered an internship on a gov contractor.

[errant jacinth]

It's pretty hard, they basically handhold you through the process

[robust island]

What year did you start looking?

[errant thicket]

x

[errant jacinth]

My first year :D
I was broke and starving... well, not starving. Just didn't have money to fuel my addictions and spending habits, so I had to do something.

[robust island]

lol that'll do it.
I would've though first year would be hard, since you presumably won't have as many skills as an upperclassman

[errant jacinth]

As soon as I finished my first semester, I hit LinkedIn/Indeed and started applying
Two weeks later, somebody accepted and here I am

[true harness]

this is generally true, but (at least where i live) there are internships targeted for underclassmen. or just get good and beat the upperclassmen. though, many internships prefer upperclassmen because they can hire them afterwards

[robust island]

Sounds like this time next year I'll be looking for some of those in my area

[true harness]

there's no reason not to get started early. you'll have some experience with applications, career fairs, etc, which does help a lot ime

[hexed knoll]

#1035199133436354600 if u develop discord bots help me there

[fringe sphinx]

You probably should post this to #python-discussion , this is much lower usage.

[robust island]

Most of the opportunities I've seen require a hs diploma at least, I'm still a senior

[true harness]

by early, I mean freshman year of college

[robust island]

Yeah, I'll start then. Probably will need to financially lol

[spring ivy]

is anyone else having a hard time getting a VISA appointment on time for spring term? or any advice to help with that maybe? anyone have experience with expedited VISA requests?

[tender perch]

@peak halo that's it ?

[main wadi]

hello, how do I enter the field of bioinfo wih python

[narrow solstice]

Is it real that A.I is Taking Coding?

[south steeple]

!off-topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.cst.cam.ac.uk/blog/afb21/oops-we-automated-bullshit
As an answer i will answer with question: Can bullshit generator take over coding?

[floral galleon]

Hi everyone,
i am new in the field of python i just completed my python course with MYSQL and in a route of DATA SCIENCE .
and now I want to join in some project to improve experience also to earn some income as well can any one let me in them projects.

[vapid jay]

Hello

[vapid jay]

Hi

[shrewd pike]

hello everyone

[serene otter]

Hell

I need help in python,
How can I talk in a vc?

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling has a good list of project ideas. #python-discussion is a better channel to discuss this and ask for suggestions

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

Career wise, good projects demonstrate what you can accomplish for an employer. If you’re looking for data science roles, then look for analysis and ML projects. Kaggle.com is a great resource for data science challenges and projects.

[fringe sphinx]

Tell us more? What’s your background and skill level? Do you have a bio or programming/CS degree?

[main wadi]

i have a bachelors in biotechnology and masters in microbiology, i have studied a bit of java and mysql, and am currently learning python

[main wadi]

will soon start R

[elfin dawn]

Hi, I have learnt python and javascript and C/C++, also django, reactjs and react native for web and mobile app dev. How can I start earning? I need to earn money now. I am broke.

[white relic]

That sounds like sufficient qualifications to start applying to labs that need data analyzed and use python

I used to have coworkers who did that kind of thing

[true harness]

!rule 9 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[errant thicket]

DAY 2 i know someone in here makes money coding from home without a job he has to be in here… whoever you are pls let’s talk

[analog sun]

How would they make money without a job? Isn't a job a task that you do in exchange for money?

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe algo/day traders? Trying to think some scenario where nobody is handing you money in exchange of anything

[errant thicket]

hey morning

[errant thicket]

so bobby be honest no i don’t want a job a remote job is fine… but while i’m looking for a remote job what could i do on the side as a side hustle

[main wadi]

I have 0 experience with big data and beginner at python

[regal axle]

I am responding but don't DM me.

I code from home but don't work for a company per say. I guess it is more like I am my own company. And I work with another company for bigger projects that I can't handle on my own. Or projects that they need extra help on.

What you would be looking for is either freelancing or contract work. Similar things but not the same. Either way, they are both super hard to get into and often times the money is not worth it. But keep in mind, most of the time this only works if you already have a track record. People need a reason to take a chance on you. Meaning the only other people left are friends and family and they don't pay well.

So yes, you can kinda sorta do this. But it is not easy in any way shape or form.

The only other option is to make some tool or what not and have a donation option. But this is even worse of a way to go. This assumes you make a tool popular enough that people rely on it so much they are willing to financially support you. And at that point, the tool tends to be maintained by multiple people. So ... time to split up pennies 😄

[white relic]

But you know the domain, and you know some Python. That's a solid resume for many labs.

[white relic]

^

[errant thicket]

thanks so freelancing or contract work thanks a lot

i will try my best now to do this

[vapid jay]

@main wadi what a beautiful profile picture 😍

[fringe sphinx]

For this stuff, if you're just startign with Python and want to focus on data, check out https://www.kaggle.com/learn . This is an intro to the main data tools in Python.

[novel spade]

Hey, so I am in 10th grade, I started with coding 3-4 years ago, considering the amount of time for which I've been doing this, I've not done much, just web scrapping, analysing the data, hackathons, bots, mentoring some folks, leading a team for small projects, and a failed project with a college grad.

What I wanna do is somehow get into the real work, I wanna intern even for free, just to learn and connect with people somewhere which deals with studying tech/economics/politics/research of stuff going around the world.

Above is the cloudy vision of what I wanna start with and learn. I don't even know if this is a clear question or not, but I just know that much of what I wanna do.

I feel my skills are okish but I am not good enough, then there's a thought that there's someone who knows less than me but is doing better.

Basically am I eligible? I'll learn but just can't wait, people I've worked with said I am definitely elidgble. But I don't know whom to reach out.

I hope everything I said is processable. What to do? How do I know what organisations to apply to?

[sand patio]

Are you in the US? If so, at least in high school, programming internships/work are going to be pretty rare to get - however, a bunch of colleges host bootcamps and stuff over the summers, which you can apply to, meet people at, talk to professors and stuff, that kind of thing. Hackathons also happen fairly frequently, you can check those out as well.

You can look on LinkedIn and such for opportunities that might accept high schoolers - I know Lockheed Martin had one last summer.

[gritty rivet]

I would focus on going to the best university you can. That is the simplest way to access the kind of opportunities you are looking for

[sand patio]

does your high school have a programming club or something? If so, you can consider joining, going to events as a team, that kind of thing

[white relic]

Doing something "on the side" implies that you have a regular job that you're doing things on the side of.
Contracting as your main source of income isn't a side hustle, it's just a regular hustle (aka a job)

[fringe sphinx]

Also, separately: if you want to participate and get involved in real-world problems, Kaggle is a great place. Some really good, realistic data challenges. A lot of room to learn.

[timid cairn]

can someone help with this

[near ocean]

No, read the channel description

[novel spade]

Don't universities want top notch students, who have already achieved a lot in the field?

[idle jetty]

I wanna start learning programming. what is the best route to follow/how did u guys start learning.

[deft herald]

I started with coding 3-4 years ago, considering the amount of time for which I've been doing this, I've not done much, just web scrapping, analyzing the data, hackathons, bots, mentoring some folks, leading a team for small projects, and a failed project with a college grad.

I would say this is a lot more than "I've not done much". You're way ahead of the game if you already have done this kind of stuff

I feel my skills are okish but I am not good enough,

This is typical "Imposter syndrome" and it affects many people new to the industry. You basically just have to ignore this feeling and tell yourself exactly the opposite, because it's 100% false.

then there's a thought that there's someone who knows less than me but is doing better.

Maybe, but who cares? Also, what do you mean by "doing better", especially at this point in your life? I doubt there's any 14 year olds out there working for a FAANG company making 6 figures

Basically am I eligible? I'll learn but just can't wait, people I've worked with said I am definitely elidgble. But I don't know whom to reach out.

Okay here's my big takeaway:
Here's the thing: as far as your technical skills go i'm sure you're very qualified. Probably even more qualified than certain people my company has hired out of college. But there's more to getting a job than just your technical ability. A big part of it is obtaining a full, well-rounded education (writing and communication skills are a huge component of working as an engineer/software dev/whatever). As others have said, this is what you need to focus on right now. You don't need a prestigious job at a big tech company yet

[novel spade]

I am not

[sand patio]

not necessarily, it's not a requirement for getting into a university

[deft herald]

what country if you dont mind the question?

[near ocean]

Universities want students who show the most promise in graduating

Theres a big overlap with high achieving students and that makes sense

[deft herald]

"already achieved a lot in the field" would be a good quality for a post-graduate candidate (masters/phd)

[true harness]

undergrad is kind of the entrypoint for the field, so that doesn't really make sense, yeah

[compact mortar]

I have a little python knowledge i can get my way through some code with google and yt. Are there freelance options for my level?

[hearty island]

freelancing is exceptionally difficult

[compact mortar]

How so?

[hearty island]

bc the clients ask for very advanced things and there are people doing it for dirt cheap. you can check fiverr and see the kinda stuff they ask for

[pine sleet]

generally, no. think about it this way: if you wanted something done and you were looking on fiverr, would you pick someone that already has lots of experience (both in freelance and the industry), or would you pick a beginner that's just learning how to code?

[fringe sphinx]

^ and: Who's going to maintain/support/fix it afterwards? How many projects are there really where you use it once and throw it away?

Graphic design is perhaps the one exception.

[deft herald]

or like "copy the data from our old excel sheet to our new DB"

[hearty island]

it's been 16 business days ever since my interview for l3harris, should i give the recruiter a call?

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, for sure.

[hearty island]

just making sure they haven't forgotten about me lol

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, just start with a happy new year/etc.

Maybe say something positive about the interview, show your interest.

[hearty island]

left her a voicemail, let's see what she says

[deft herald]

Yeah a lot of those days could have been time off for holidays

[hearty island]

true, idk but the job doesn't show in my applicant portal

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 408337360548528138 This comment is inappropriate and offensive. It's important to respect all cultures and avoid perpetuating harmful stereotypes. Please read the ⁠#rules.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @pastel thunder.

[novel spade]

India

[turbid bobcat]

Got approached by a recruiter for a position based in SV, left a thoughtful response, hopefully I won't get ghosted

[sand flame]

Question:

I have a former coworker reaching out to me asking about places where python is used that are higher paying (SF bay area/seattle/etc are fine for them to relocate).

I noticed in looking at a lot of job postings for various companies (I honestly just checked levels.fyi and went through open requisitions for each company), that most jobs specifying python are either SRE/devops or ML.

Are there many companies that use python for large parts of their software (I think some small teams in Meta (threads, etc), YT @ google, and some more ML infra/opsy type roles)? Looks like most roles are for Java backend/distributed systems types roles, with a sprinkling of random other stuff (c++/python/node).

I know that for junior or midlevel roles that language doesn't usually matter, but a lot of these postings say "strong java experience", "fluent in the java language and ecosystem", etc. While I'm sure they could figure out how to translate their leetcode into java in a week or two, they wouldn't really know the ins and outs of maven, what common libraries are used for what, existing conventions, etc. I also imagine a "code review" round would present a challenge without experience reading a lot of Java code.

Edit: OpenAI says most of their backend is python. I'm sure it's hyper competitive, but that would count.

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Is there a question?

[sand flame]

Yeah sorry the question was in the third paragraph. To summarize:

Are there companies that are known to pay in the higher range that hire senior python programmers for general software development positions?

[smoky quest]

higher than what?

In general companies establish their pay bands on a percentile of the market for a given location, skillset, industry, etc.

[sand flame]

They are hoping to maintain faang-ish level pay, so I'd assume what people on blind refer to as "tier 1" or "tier 2"? Kind of hard to quantify, but I'd assume a total compensation of at least $300k USD

[smoky quest]

yeah no. They won't maintain a faang-ish level of pay. It's a trade of.
For instance smaller companies may have a smaller salary but have more growth in their equity

It will also depend on their level of experience, education, location, skills and how that compensation is structured

[white relic]

for general software development positions
Not sure I understand the distinction you're drawing here tbh. Surely most if not all senior python developers would be considered under the umbrella of "general software development"?

In other words, what software development would you consider "non-general"

[smoky quest]

I would also suggest to not take blind too seriously. It's a lot of shitposting over there

[sand flame]

To show my homework done so far, here is a list of companies that we've both checked the open requisitions pages for, with asterisks next to those where we either found python mentioned as part of the tech stack or there wasn't a clear disclaimer stating that a particular language/environment (java/c++) was required:

airbnb (most positions mention jvm on the backend)
airtable (no jobs right now, but looks fullstack js)
atlassian (jvm and node, with their "jira align" product appearing to be C#)
*Benchling
*Tiktok (positions mention currently python moving to go)
Coupang (appears to be mostly java)
Cruise (mostly C++)
Databricks (mostly java)
Docusign (lots of dotnet)
*Dropbox
*Meta
IMC (C++)
*Instacart
Linkedin (mostly java/c++/js)
Netflix (mostly Java with some node)
Notion (node)
*Nuro
*OpenAI
*Pinterest
*Plaid
*Robinhood
Roblox (C#/Go/Java)
*Scale AI
Snowflake (mostly java/C++)
*Splunk
*Square
*Stripe (doesn't use python, but says open to whatever)
*Two Sigma
*Uber

To clarify on what I mean by "general" and "non-general" (I agree I could have been more specific):

• Job types seem to be split into a number of categories, however "working on middle-tier or back-end services", which is usually a combination of web service development (api, queue consumers/producers) and general business logic is what I usually think of here.
• The skills and experience for these positions usually carry over (which is important when applying to senior+ positions)
• Something like devops/sre requires a skillset that most folks working in "general development" wouldn't have, similar to ML
• A better term may be "web service and library development"? But one could probably constrain even further.

I'm trying to match their experience and skillset with companies/roles they could apply for with their financial constraints.

[deft herald]

You're doing a lot of work for this former coworker

[sand flame]

I think the main thing that we were surprised to see was that a lot of companies really want specific language/environment experience for senior jobs. We both have heard in the past that "language doesn't matter for interviews", but in looking at the postings and interview experiences, it does appear there is constraints.

[sand flame]

They helped me get my current job. I kinda owe them.

[deft herald]

Fair nuff

[white relic]

personally I find it unsurprising that people specialize more as they become more senior, isn't that pretty true across industries?

late career generalists are rare

[smoky quest]

That's not really the case.
Most companies will be fine hiring someone who has an equivalent experience in another language, as long as that engineer is willing to pick it up

[white relic]

Maybe "equivalent experience" is bearing some weight there. It would be unusual for someone to have 10+ years experience in web backend using Julia. But I've known seniors who switched from C# to Python mid career and did fine.

well, career-wise. The reason I remember a few in particular is because they wrote very C#-like Python...

[sand flame]

Yeah if "equivalent experience" is mentioned I'd assume that would be safe, though in the list above you can see my details about those which specifically mentioned that they required specific experience.

I mean it makes sense for Cruise to want people who know C++ and all the stuff that goes along with it (I've heard this about other places like C++ teams on google, etc)

[smoky quest]

It does. It's a cost function after all.
The further away, the more costly the hiring.

I would also argue that these companies are so big that it will also depend on the manager and specific needs of that team (ex: a team who really needs someone knowledgeable in tuning the JVM)

[smoky quest]

Don't read too much into it. Apply and let them be the judge.

For cruise, I doubt their backend is in C++. For the embedded side, sure, but backend? that would be a strange decision

[sand flame]

Yeah true, on my team we hire whoever (mostly node with some python), but another area of the company is only C# and for seniors they ask a lot of C# specific questions.

[white relic]

I'm not in the software industry. Projects I've been involved in mostly hire people with domain knowledge (EE/physics) and teach them the tools as necessary. Rarely works the other way around.

[sand flame]

Appreciate the feedback. We'll keep combing our way through the careers pages of these companies to find appropriate positions.

Figured it would be worth asking here in case someone had already compiled a list haha.

[deft herald]

Yeah i'm thinking if I were to get a new job now, how difficult it would be to switch industries simply due to all of the domain knowledge i've worked to build over the last 6 years

<- also work at a hardware company

[smoky quest]

is their target of 300k for base or TC?

[sand flame]

TC

[smoky quest]

yoe? location?

[sand flame]

300 base I think is probably single digit companies (outside of finance) for senior.

12 yoe, mostly python services, located in san diego but open to relocation

[white relic]

I tried some industry-switching job applications during 2021. (with a few more years behind me) It was pretty hard. If I'd ended up following that path (I instead got a better offer in the same field) I probably would have had to take a substantial pay cut

[limpid harness]

Hello, third year computer science student. I just wanted to get some advice on how I could build a portfolio/ things that employer find valuable when looking at a portfolio. I started developing on react.JS and node.js to build a full stack website. I’m looking to get an internship in web development. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[fringe sphinx]

I think you also have to consider that: Job postings are not the hiring criteria. They're just a bunch of generic keywords thrown out to trawl for good candidates. I consider the job description mostly junk.

[safe loom]

Anybody here experimented job fatigue? Like finding the tasks absolutely dull and repetitive up to the point that even coding becomes a hassle? I'm out of a break and seeing so many shitty codebases written by non-developers is starting to tire me out;

[fringe sphinx]

Yup.

[safe loom]

I'm currently slowing down on a POC and trying to keep it moderately short on a sample case (so I can distract myself with bugfix later) but then my manager wants me to tie it to one of the many unmanaged dashboard systems there is.

Communication becomes also tiring since I don't have the impression customers really know what they want the most in their wishlist (listing priorities) so I'm kinda swimming in a sea of nothingness.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I understand. Been there. I worked for a once great startup that was slowly falling apart.

[safe loom]

Also feels like I'm losing sense of usefulness in the team because I feel like their tasks are more concrete and they ahve a sense of direction. Meanwhile I have no propositions except paching around (stuff I hate) or tearing apart the old framework to replace it by something more manageable (challenging but there's a lot to do).

[fringe sphinx]

Sounds like you should start looking. It's a lot easier to have "the talk" with your current company, once you know what your options are.

[deft herald]

or tearing apart the old framework to replace it by something more manageable (challenging but there's a lot to do).
Anecdotal, but I was in the same situation and decided to do exactly this ☝️

It was a major catalyst to my promotion last year and now I lead my own small team. The new framework is almost to a state of being able to replace basic use cases of the legacy one after about a year of working on it.

[fringe sphinx]

(fair, Meltz's answer is a bit more optimistic... I was feeding off the doom and gloom of OP)

[deft herald]

It worked out great though because it set up a lot of good work in front of me that I know i'll enjoy doing because I own it

[deft herald]

Yeah, YMMV of course. Sometimes it does just make sense to jump ship

[safe loom]

Well I'm still on a limited contract so my options are either looking away or talking to my manager about it, but I'd like to be less on the discussions (even if it's important) and more on the action. All of that is because my customer gives the nod to basically everything so I have no idea what should eventually be my own workflow. I'm in a big group so i'd like to stay another year to inflate my resume on it.

[deft herald]

I would 100% suggest talking to your manager about it

[hearty island]

l3harris called me and told me my rejection email got lost in their system lol

like what

[smoky quest]

their dog ate it

[silk mauve]

cyber postman put it in the wrong mailbox

[fringe sphinx]

Just decline the rejection.

[silk mauve]

just walk into the office and assume a desk

[hearty island]

lolll

[whole flare]

based.

[fluid pier]

not really about careers, but figured this place could help. Yesterday I interviewed with a prep school and I forgot about a pretty big thing I wanted to share that could be pivotal, should I follow up with an email to tell the interviewer about it?

please ping if you respond, thanks!

[main wadi]

Ig , i will try applying

[main wadi]

Thanks a lot for the source

[main wadi]

Thanks 🙂

[main wadi]

It's from gintama

[vapid jay]

Glad to hear that

[raw nest]

depends on what you want to share. If you think it's important, email is fine.

[vapid jay]

You guys suggest Fiverr or Upwork? for discord bot development and website development

In which one is it easier to find a job?

[steep flower]

i am also looking into same domain, let me also know what will work

i am also thinking of doing web dev locally

[vapid jay]

Bruh just there is no job!

[steep flower]

i didnt get it

[vapid jay]

No problem

[vapid jay]

Is it an anime

[main wadi]

yes

[vapid jay]

I see

[pine wadi]

Any device for a high school student that wants to do computer science? I already have some stuff done in python and I've learned html and css

[kindred oyster]

try different things , see what you like and what you dont

try to make projects that are useful to you in your day to day life

[frozen coyote]

Hello,
I want to become a software developer and thus, I decided to get into programming. I was advised to start from Python as my first programming language. Then I am planning on extending to other programming languages. I would really appreciate it if anyone can give me genuine advise and examples of specific and free resources to learn Python. (feel free to @ mention me)

[buoyant seal]

Since it is your first language and u a able to communicate English, I will recommend this 🙂
Make sure to complete any exercises it has, it is important

[frozen coyote]

Thank you! I really appreciate your advice! 🙂

[vapid jay]

Hello. I completed Python Basic course. Is it okay if I start learning Automation because most of the work I saw on upwork and other freelancing web's that's related to API, Web Scraping, Scripting etc. Any advice or suggestion? Automation roadmap?

[gritty rivet]

My advice is to forget freelancing as a beginner and aim for a real job first.

But the fact that you're looking at Upwork says you know what you're up against. Knowing the competition will be your best guide. Good luck 🙂

[vapid jay]

My city don't have software or web developers office or company. So I'm checking daily on job portals in neighbour cities. So far, there's no internship and entry level jobs.

[fringe sphinx]

I always say the same thing: expand your search to include support/helpdesk/qa/etc. Anything tech related. Without a degree, it may be hard to directly land a SWE job, so at least consider a broader set of positions.

And of course: work your network. Friends of friends, friends of family, etc. Make a real effort to talk to people... not just "beg" for a job, but ask for ideas or hear their story.

[pastel thunder]

Anyone working on a research I can contribute to? Need more publications.
I have experience in-depth ML(CV, NLP), have written papers before (currently under submission).
Would be great if you already have the decided path and defined research problem and aiming to publish before this years end, please feel free to DM me. Thanks.
I am aiming top conference only.

[steep flower]

Hi,
I have been using python for almost 3 years now, started by trying to automate games and was forced to learn python for ctfs because its a quite handy language.
I also have some experience in some other languages, I have been trying to expand my skills outside programming to software engineering in last few months.

if i am trying to get a job using python, is there any field where i could have a better chance? (i dont have cs degree) (age 18)

It really doesnt matters to me which field it is, most of the fields interests me, for now i had to think from job perspective so i could get some money for my education and for things i want to do (for some projects i want to do).

[buoyant seal]

It is challenging getting hired without:

1. CS degree
2. without work experience
3. without portfolio of what u can do

• preferably with demonstrating at least one protect with tech relevant to job position

[steep flower]

last two can be fixed

i just want to know what position/role i should focus on

[buoyant seal]

What languages u a willing to work with?

[steep flower]

no preference, any thing that pays well (not bad, i mean average pay)

[buoyant seal]

Okay. Then I will say that u gain 5x multiplier to learning and working if u choose job position/role u a willing to like.

So question raises to what stuff u like

[steep flower]

can i know what all stuffs are available?

i would suggest avoiding ai/datascience since my math is not upto date to my age, i dont struggle, i just havent learnt them properly, i am currently doing it, but that will take a lot of time, priority is low for now also books are expensive

[gritty rivet]

Yes, you can search your local job listings

[steep flower]

dont want local, pay is low, and no degree is a problem

[buoyant seal]

• web development
  • frontend (graphical part of web sites)
  • backend (server side making, usually dealing with databases, APIs and Linux)
  • sys admin (deployments, maintenance, help desk support)
    • DevOps, same as sys admin, but automating operations, programming infrastructure as a code with kind of more developer approach.
  • data engineering
• desktop development
  • for windows
  • for MacOS
• mobile development
  • Android
  • ios
• embedded development
  • Arduino, drones shenanigans

May be other stuff

[buoyant seal]

As beginner u a almost bound to work locally. Because u have work permit to work locally, and it is easier to hire u to office (which is more often required from beginners)

[steep flower]

thanks, these are the order in which i prefer them
backend
frontend / desktop development / mobile
sys admin
data engineering
embedded development

[steep flower]

what about remote?

[gritty rivet]

With no experience and no degree, pay is low everywhere.

Combine that with remote only and you are competing with an entire world of experienced and educated developers

[steep flower]

i mean in the sense pay is low for everyone

[buoyant seal]

It is common enough to work remotely once u acquired at least middle ranked proficiency (preferable middle+)
(Takes from few to three years of work for degree holders usually to reach middle level. May take forever for non degree holders to reach this level)

[steep flower]

okay

[steep flower]

a stupid question
assuming its reachable and i am free all day

is it possible to get to middle level by contributing to open source python projects?

at the same time learning cs and software engineering topics while applying them to projects i have been contributing to and personal practice projects

[buoyant seal]

It is not impossible, but very unlikely.
Full time job makes you working 40 hours per week with dedication + even doing stuff on top.

In full time job u just encounter more real life challenges and communicate more

Without foundation of good education even with having full time job u can remain forever novice though. Good education helps to get appropriate work challenges and conquer them in order to master your level

Without education and without full time work hours, and without foundation of some skills which would lead you to appropriate work challenges it is just unlikely in any reasonable time to reach good level in open source

[steep flower]

excellent (because you stated the problems i will face instead of just saying it wont work)

[buoyant seal]

During your evaluation for middle ranked jobs

You are tested for

• core software engineering skills
  • ability to write code (preferably clean and readable)
  • questioned what is your level of understanding and experience to write unit tested code and appropriate code architecture to it
  • and etc
• you are questioned to know appropriate technology stack relevant to position (SQL is usually throughly checked for backenders)

So, in order to pass, u just need to know theory, having learned applying it at practice in depth (work environments usually provide appropriate challenges where u deal in hundred thousand code lines code bases, or working with different intricate issues araised from prolonged app usage and growth)
And of course learned and practiced operating necessary tech
And your soft skills are evaluated

[buoyant seal]

The biggest trick that most of the stuff is learned only thorough a lot practice (some takes years to get)

Otherwise people with no coding practice struggle to write even simplest challenge for 50 code lines

[steep flower]

okay thanks

i think i can do it, given some time

really thankful, you have broke down things i should have etc..

[nova snow]

[silk mauve]

almost no one except for pure remote companies is going to trust an 18 year old with no degree and no experience with remote work. Most of the places I've worked where I was remote, interns were always full time in office

best luck with managing to a get a remote position in such a situation is basically reserved for startups, or places too small to even be a startup, finding someone to help with their project essentially

[peak halo]

I can't think of anyone, including officeless companies, wanting to hire an 18 year old with no degree and no experience unless it's for an internship, and the 18 year old is a student with good grades.

[pastel thunder]

Yeah unless, you have something stellar to your profile, low chance, some people sometime say they will work for free and do get the job

why do i eat some words, while writing

[silk mauve]

Basically, unfortunately probably best way to get a dev job at 18 is be a prodigy that makes an app that gets worldwide renown

[fringe sphinx]

Then you wouldn’t need the job 🙂

[silk mauve]

The irony is not lost on me

[peak halo]

depending on whatever laws apply, it's likely that a given company can't hire someone to work for free. In the US, you can only have "unpaid internships" if the internship does not involve the intern doing anything of value for the company.

[fringe sphinx]

I say it a lot, but: at 18, any tech job is career building, help desk/support/qa/even data entry all help.

[silk mauve]

Too bad that's often not what unpaid internships involve anyway

Yerp, first tech job was 2 years of heldesk at my university

For a measley 8 bucks an hour

1 year of sys admin intern, 1 year of student research assisting, then 2 years system engineer after graduating, finally devops

[hearty island]

my first internship was unpaid

it was a marketing internship lol… but it somehow got me into UHG & textron

[silk mauve]

Oof at least you got something out of it, in the college of engineering it was customary to laugh at any company trying to offer an unpaid internship.

[pale oasis]

Hello - A question to maybe SWE managers, what kind of projects or qualifications would catch your eyes for someone without a Comp Sci / Engineering degree?

[buoyant seal]

projects:

• Any projects more than thousands code lines (or preferably dozens of thousands) with some neat code organization

  • (if u will manage to show some good Domain Driven Design it could be pretty cool)
  • also i expect in any case unit tests and highly preferably code architecture reflecting unit testability
  • super cool if your project has more than several active users (if u reached a hundred, u are already a hero that made smth useful)
  • extra cool if you are actually writing static typed code with using structs instead of dics 😅
  • i expect observing certain level of documentation how to use the project and what it for.

• I would expect having at least one project relevant in technology type to job role u seek, the rest can be having value even if not exactly related to job role in terms of tech

qualifications:

• AWS qualifications nowdays certainly catch an eye if you are backend / full stack / DevOps or data engineer

[pale oasis]

Thank you! This is the answer I've been looking for

"Any projects more than thousands code lines (or preferably dozens of thousands) with some neat code organization
(if u will manage to show some good Domain Driven Design it could be pretty cool)
also i expect in any case unit tests and highly preferably code architecture reflecting unit testability
super cool if your project has more than several active users (if u reached a hundred, u are already a hero that made smth useful)"

[pale oasis]

For AWS, Associate Developer cert is the one you're talking about right? the Front/Back end?

[buoyant seal]

sure, for dev roles this one is preferable. Although i don't exclude some other options in addition

[buoyant seal]

AWS dominates good half of a cloud deployment market in US and europe. So if your job orientation is somewhere to there eventually or your country works with this too + your job role is somehow related to cloud in in any way in general
Then AWS is great.
Although to be fair, companies often are ready to take in people for other used clouds as long as they have experience working with any other complex cloud (AWS is very complex). So win win will be from AWS usage for sure. (as long as your job role is in any way related to cloud stuff)

[pale oasis]

@buoyant seal So the dominant cloud services is still Amazon. What do you think of MS or Google?

[buoyant seal]

it is popular in some countries more, in some less (Azure and Google Cloud Platform (a.k.a GCP))
could be cool to know Google too in my opinion. They are after all the bringers of the most important cloud tech known as k8s.
Some countries have more popular Azure. I personally wish never having job related to Azure though. Never wishing to risk having any Windows in my jobs 😅
When u work in modern web development, u have luxury to be never leaving boundaries of Linux optionally (as long as u aren't in C#/DotNet world). Very comfy dev env for me.

In the end as far as i searched, both Azure and GCP have twice less market jobs share/popularity than AWS, for this reason really not a priority to me to get to know them.

[pale oasis]

haha I agree. I'm a Mac/ Linux person. Powershell is a no no to me

[pale oasis]

I see. So Amazon it is then. Thank you so much. and 1000 lines at least for the projects. I guess I'll look into the ideas.

But the use of API and Frameworks to utilize my app won't hurt my chances right?

[buoyant seal]

1000 and growing further. like we can expect some complex enough project having at least 5000 code lines to observe something?
Than more than merrier. Big projects with 10-20-30 thousands code lines will be even more interesting
Could be cool to see code reusage and growing ecosystem of your own libraries that u use between projects

[pale oasis]

And assuming the thousands of codes are optimized and organized?

[buoyant seal]

But the use of API and Frameworks to utilize my app won't hurt my chances right?
it depends.

Frameworks will never hurt your app, and will be benefiting if you are trying to make front/backend projects.
All popular jobs eventually use frameworks anyway.
There are some exceptions, where certain languages are able to flare pretty well without frameworks though, because they have very rich std libs (golang)
It depends on if they are justified to be used for the project... but in general probably no one will care if they were justified i think.

APIs... that's more tricky. in general sure u can use to get extra stuff.
But i will say one personal biased exception: If i spot projects purely based on using ChatGPT, i see personally them heavily negatively as very dumbest stuff 😅 It is probably personal quirck.
I think projects which use neural networks are fine, or able to have free to use neural network stuff in them. I see personally negatively only chatGPT at least and its attempts to put it in spots where it should not be, because its generated stuff is very dubious and dependency on paid hyped product is very not reliable for any project

[silk mauve]

I'll drink to hopefully never working with azure again

[buoyant seal]

sure.
The most important though that it will be having... you know... purpose, solving some problems people have
and solution is documented preferably with reasoning, why your solution is better than existing ones (if they exist)
and that in its turn leads preferably to having some users to your solution

[buoyant seal]

@pale oasis many people have pretty ugly code that works and popular... your solution just should be having more Green flags than Red flags
or your know... sum of Green flags to your solution (being optimized/organized/or having popularity you know/greatly documented) is having sufficient total weight
if your solution is 90%+ unit tested covered, it is often already having sufficient minimal quality.

[pale oasis]

I see.

[buoyant seal]

i mentioned important Green flags to your solution over there. Solution should be preferably reasoned why it is better than existing ones
filling some unique niche of not previously existing stuff

[pale oasis]

I agree chargpt isnt fully there yet. I was thinking something in my former profession like federal income tax calculator with most common forms like stock gain losses and other stuff

[buoyant seal]

Well, i will mention that highly preferably your projects should be just also morally ethical.
If your project is parsing personal data of people from Facebook and then sells for money or spams adds
it will be seen negatively as well @pale oasis
Some measure of ethics should be present 😅 having project of at least neutral nature. (not having any amoral stuff)
P.S. although they are probably companies that will see it positively hehe

[pale oasis]

Yup Naw for something like tax calc it'd be more like a form based and will result what lines in the tax forms would be entered. No personal information necessary. Full filing and others That's TurboTax's job 😂

[buoyant seal]

I was thinking something in my former profession like federal income tax calculator with most common forms like stock gain losses and other stuff
sounds useful 😊

[pale oasis]

But its just a plan. But definitely agree with your previous words about ethics and privacy rules. I dont think my projects would be as conplex as ads and stuff lol. But thank you so much for the great info

[buoyant seal]

😅 all my projects in one way or another are around some gaming communities.
A fun source of inspiration and people base

Although i also made dev tools to improve dev workflow
Stuff that i miss to have, i just make it 😊 or remake previously crappy JS analogs to better and more feature rich analog

[leaden merlin]

Hi Guys,
I’m Ian and just new to this server.
I want to have an advice regarding career transitioning.
I have known Python, Golang and c# and did some personal projects using those languages. I’m currently working as an It Support.
For these past few months I dedicated my time everyday on passing my resume for Jr.Developer roles. I’ve found a website like pathrise which gives 1:1 mentorship for free but its not available on my country. Just want to ask if you know any similar websites as well. Or what I should learn more about python. What project should I make something like thay.

[pale oasis]

Thats nice! Gaming intrigues me too

[buoyant seal]

small additional note. highly likely u will be eventually evaluated on a few the most big / complex projects u have. (instead of array of small projects)
So.. there is preferance to invest yourself for portfolio in showing some big stuff over a lot of small stuff 😅 (unless this small stuff are articles)
Paths to those big projects can be laid down by a lot of small stuff though.

Nice to have projects that are growing in size and maintained over big span of time (year/years).
Which have some life you know, beyond their first implementation.

• that appears for sure if projects have people using it. then they make feature requests or bugs to fix requests

[pale oasis]

Will do. Yeah gotta think of something that i could progress over time

[noble socket]

Hi guys, is it complexed to make simple websites by using Django?

[peak halo]

Relative to what? Regardless, if becoming a web developer sounds appealing to you, you should just try it.

[noble socket]

Right now I’m learning SQL and I want to start working in freelance. I decided to try making money on Django

Generally most of all spheres in programming that I tried, this is the best one

[rapid sonnet]

Hello everyone! I graduated with a Bachelor's in Business Studies in July 2021 and have been working in Customer Success & Sales since then. I aim to transition into Software Engineering and recently began learning Python. I'm more inclined towards backend development than front-end. However, I'm struggling with building programming logic and feel dumb sometimes. Someone suggested studying Data Structures and Algorithms alongside learning programming. Is this a good idea?

Also, I live in Pakistan and aim to get a job (preferably remote) in the US or Europe due to the currency difference. I fear that if I land a job in Pakistan, the salary might be significantly lower than what I currently earn. My goal is to get a junior software engineering role in about 6-7 months. Do you think this is possible?
Thanks

[smoky quest]

DSA is the fundamental of the programming logic. So yeah, it's definitely a great idea!

[tired bolt]

Hey, everyone. Based on research and talking to multiple people in the industry, I’ve heard that CS is definitely a better degree for Cybersecurity than a cybersecurity degree itself. However, I’m worried both about the difficulty/stress/workload with CS and the math. My next best option is prolly a cybersecurity major. At the school I’m hoping to attend, I need algorithms/data structures, calc I, calc I, and Discrete Math. I don’t need ANY of those for Cybersecurity degree (some like discrete I would need depending on a concentration but I could always avoid that concentration.)

So, how much better is CS than Cybersecurity as a degree, really? (For a cybersecurity career obviously.) Will I have a way harder time finding me first job and jobs after that with a Cybersecurity degree than if I got a CS degree?

Also… these are the tech bachelor’s degree that the school I wanna go to offers:

• CS
• Cybersecurity
• Info Tech
• Info Systems
• Data Analaytics (I think-haven’t checked in a few weeks so I forgot tbh)

Note: The cybersecurity degree there is accredited by NSA as a Center for Academic Excellence, if that makes the degree look more flashy or something lol.

[smoky quest]

In terms of jobs, your pay will be based on your location, not the company's HQ location.
If you are talking about emigrating then that means visas and companies willing to sponsor you and that's a whole different level

[smoky quest]

"cybersecurity" is as narrow as saying "healthcare". It really depends what role you want to do

[rapid sonnet]

Ofcourse companies won't pay me as much as they pay the residents of the country their HQ is located in. I don't want to get a high pay either because $1000/month is good enough for me. I hope I'm not asking too much.

[smoky quest]

they will pay you the market rate for someone in your city and your education and skillset

[rapid sonnet]

How should I work on building my programming logic? Sometimes I feel like I can't be a good programmer because I'm not that smart. idk

[tired bolt]

Some type of analyst position. GRC also seems fine but it’s not as hands-on as I like. Hacking/pentesting seems dope but everyone wants in to that. I have to be realistic.

[rapid sonnet]

I see

[smoky quest]

• Read books like "introduction to algorithms"
• Practice with exercises (leetcode) and projects

[rapid sonnet]

thanks

[tired bolt]

@smoky quest id also def consider getting into some type of secure software dev/ info systems security developer/security architect but I’d want to keep learning coding before deciding I truly enjoy it.

[smoky quest]

don't be too realistic.
Your opportunities will be the same or less as the ceiling you impose on yourself. The lower the ceiling, the lower the opportunities. And on top of that, you may experience regret as you did not get to see how far you could go.

So be ambitious and try. Worst case you learn something and best case you succeed.

[tired bolt]

That’s a good point. I haven’t even tried hacking yet because I’ve always thought it was too “niche” or unrealistic that I’d actually get a job but I’ll t try out HackTheBox or TryHackMe and see how I like it. Thx bro!

[smoky quest]

also on the CS side, it's not just about backend or frontend. There are gazillions different things.
And that's the same for "cybersecurity"

Feel free to explore

[fringe sphinx]

This is also a great question in #python-discussion , there’s lots of people there who can recommend learning resources and answer questions. The important thing is to keep coding… like a sport, you get good with practice

[buoyant seal]

😄 get good

[rotund raft]

#discord-bots

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Do you have a question related to #career-advice ?

[rotund raft]

no just pinging it to go to the channel

[smoky quest]

Spamming is not cool nor acceptable per our #rules

[rotund raft]

Spamming? When?

[smoky quest]

#career-advice message

[rotund raft]

all i did was ping a channel to get to that channel ...

[smoky quest]

so you are sending an unsolicited and unrelated message to get people to read your message on a completely different channel for a purpose unrelated to #career-advice ? That's called spam

[rotund raft]

Can you instruct me where to report staff?

[smoky quest]

I could. Not here though

[pine sleet]

DM @severe widget for reports

[stiff citrus]

anyone here already using odoo? i want to learn odoo development

[austere cosmos]

help

[zinc prawn]

@patent mesa your non war secrets can go here

[arctic mica]

Please I need some clarity on this topic. I'm a newbie tech enthusiast and want to develop my career in the tech industry cloud computing specifically, I discovered via research that Linux is a very essential skill to learn as a cloud engineer, I want to find out which of Linux is important to learn. Is operations in Linux using GUI or operations using CLI. Thank you very much

[light bolt]

Used Odoo for a while. What do would you like to build with it?

[stiff citrus]

No i just want to have channel like groups that discuss about odoo

[lyric hamlet]

I want build that resume but i dont know what to add in achivements and position responsibilities can anyone just suggest me what to write there as freshers

[turbid bobcat]

Hi, I found out I have two conference poster abstracts published in a reputable journal from my previous field. Can I list them as publications on my CV ? They're technically published and also peer reviewed I suppose, but they're not full papers, just title + abstract

[buoyant seal]

😅 CLI way is important first of course. All servers have CLI access only.
GUI is optional preference (in terms of your work OS being preferably Linux too. U will far less struggle with your dev env when it is Linux too. Which one it will be, not super important, but something debian/ubuntu based is kind of prefered i think, as they are quite popular to be servers)

[arctic mica]

Ok thank you

@buoyant seal Please can you recommend a book or platform to kick start my learning as a beginner

[buoyant seal]

i can recommend just installing linux os like Kubuntu 22.04 LTS (stable long term supported are more preferable)
and just playing around, starting using it for development.

Kubuntu is ubuntu based, which is in its turn debian based, so friendly OS for most of servers.
has nice windows like GUI with multi window console out of the box. i like it. A bit memory heavy but whatever.

U could play console challenges here https://cmdchallenge.com/
and also here in addition for training some challenges https://sadservers.com/

[arctic mica]

Ok thank you

[buoyant seal]

Once u get sufficient grasp of CLI linux and get yourself familiar in general, i can recommend going through Docker Deep Dive
https://www.amazon.com/Docker-Deep-Dive-Nigel-Poulton/dp/1916585256
It teaches in a structured way about Docker, and Docker is the most essential abstraction over Linux used in the cloud.
it wraps linux in small... reusable, cli and programmatic controllable... containers which have inside illusion of having fully fledged filesystem and OS (but essentially it is very lightweight wrapper, so docker container having application can be as small as 5megabytes (if it imitates Alpine Linux inside) and even smaller)

[arctic mica]

Waoh this is insightful thank you

[buoyant seal]

at your service.

[mortal kite]

I find it distinctly odd that when interviewing for an engineering position, a position where you are supposed to find elegant solutions to interesting problems, the very first thing they do is quiz you on how many algorithms you’ve memorized.

Most of which are either in the standard library or are easy enough to import that all you really need to know is which one to use when.

Surely they would be more interested in “How do you go about approaching a problem?” Or “Give examples of your code that you have already done” or “Find a way to defend using Jenkins”

[digital fjord]

it's meant to be a basic skill check whether you can do any programming at all, but they have grown to the point they are actually difficult for some reason. I remember it used to be fizzbuzz was the big selection thing (admittedly, fizzbuzz is kind of a trap).

[mortal kite]

This is for a senior position. Then again, having been on call way too many times, I can say with certainty that most senior engineers don’t know how to use a computer.

[digital fjord]

I do know several senior engineers who do just leave the interview when asked to do leetcode BS

[mortal kite]

Leetcode is about as useful a gauge of skill as giving someone flash cards with actual exam answers an hour before the exam

[fringe sphinx]

I had one entry candidate who said they wouldn’t whiteboard a problem/any problem

Just declined the coding question

[digital fjord]

I feel that, did it work?

[mortal kite]

I will only do the coding question if it looks like a real world problem and not yet another petshop api

[fringe sphinx]

But agree with this: we only asked questions not much harder than fizzbuzz

[mortal kite]

Like, give me real infra but with fake data, and see how I approach one of the low-hanging fruit stories in the actual backlog.

And have me walk the interviewer through my thought and coding process

[fringe sphinx]

This is sadly true enough, our big problem when hiring was seniority did not correlate with competency. I think this was selection bias; the seniors who were still looking were the seniors who were least employable (the good seniors had jobs)

[mortal kite]

In my experience it isn’t what you know, but rather who you know.

Which sucks if you have social anxiety like I do.

[digital fjord]

I would argue that an interview should not be an in-depth assessment of your skill at all, that should be apparent from your experience, projects, references etc. It should be more of a check that you do in fact know some things, verifying your resume.

[fringe sphinx]

There’s several schools of thought: hire slow/fire slow, hire fast/fire slow, hire slow/fire fast, and hire fast/fire fast. I’ve landed on the last as the only effective strategy, but ‘fire fast’ is only an option in small tech.

[mortal kite]

Unless what you know is just too juicy to pass up. E.g. I personally wrote the entire docs and tutorials for our internal homebrew api gateway from scratch, solo. That means that some teams are trying to poach me since I’ll be bringing very important institutional knowledge with me.

But I want to do something I will enjoy, and being a living document isn’t that.

[fringe sphinx]

This was my career path. I got lucky and worked for the ‘right’ startup early in my career.

[mortal kite]

Right now I have to stick with the api gateway SRE group for KT reasons, but I really want to get into data engineering or systems engineering. And off the cloud if possible, I am sick and tired of microservices and kubernetes

[fringe sphinx]

DE with a SRE and DevOps background is a good transition: those skills are important

[mortal kite]

Three. Separate. Kubernetes. Clusters. For. Blue. And. For. Green.
Per environment (alpha, beta, dev, test, perf, qa, sandbox, stage, preprod, prod-internal, prod-external)
On rancher, azure, and AWS. Each.

Is “maneuvering around executive meddling bs while putting out everyone else’s fires” a transferable skill for DE?

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, that’s a skill for every job

[mortal kite]

Welp, guess I will hold onto my “Firefighting-as-a-Service” laptop sticker then

I do know that a lot of companies are really going for diversity and inclusion, or at least trying to make it look like they are.

At what point do I disclose my (neurospicy) diagnosis?

[fringe sphinx]

Why would you disclose? Not sure I follow.

[mortal kite]

To gauge their response. Doesn’t matter if it is the best position ever, if people at the company respond negatively to my disability I don’t want to be there.

It happened to me before.

“When someone shows you what they’re really like, believe them the first time.”

[fringe sphinx]

But does this affect your ability to do work?

If it doesn’t, then I’m not sure I’d bring it up until very late in the hiring process, if at all

[mortal kite]

My biggest weakness is that I am a people-pleaser

[fringe sphinx]

‘I care too much’?

[mortal kite]

Basically yeah. When you spend your whole life constantly being told you are wrong because of something you cannot control, yeah.

So if the culture strikes me as being too intolerant, I walk out mid-interview.

Of course this is after asking other less personal office culture questions

[fringe sphinx]

Hmm. Walking out is a bit extreme: it’s nigh impossible to gauge culture from an interview, imo.

People say all sorts of stuff

[mortal kite]

I prefer to let their actions do the talking, but sometimes a snap judgement can save several weeks of pain

[fringe sphinx]

There are good managers and bad managers, that’s ultimately what I think you’re talking about. Good managers learn ppls strengths and weaknessss and adapts to them. Bad managers try to fit ppl to a mold

[mortal kite]

Yup, my first manager had this weird idea that the best way to initiate a conversation was to grab the back of your chair and yank on it.

“ADHD doesn’t exist, you just need better discipline”

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, sounds like a d***.

[mortal kite]

My current manager long ago realized that I work best when you give me something big to sink my teeth into (I usually solo an epic each quarter) and then leave me alone for a week at a time.

[fringe sphinx]

Like, dealing with ADD (and attention in general) is like part of engineering management 101. Many of my team has been somewhere on the spectrum (I mean this generally not in a medical sense)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this is the way (adapt to your team)

[mortal kite]

His son has the same ADHD flavor as me, so he knows I get my dopamine not from completing tasks but from exploring my curiosity. So he makes sure to give me stuff with minimal prior KT so I can deep dive it and enjoy the process.

Well, he also learned to not interrupt when I hyperfixate on the weather and natural disasters.

[fringe sphinx]

The thing is, I think most humans are like this. Most people like to own a ‘problem’ and work it from beginning to end, rather than work on bite sized tasks

[mortal kite]

Which is why sprint planning is my least productive time of the month

[fringe sphinx]

Tbh, you sound like a pretty normal engineer to me… in that, many swe’s are neuro divergent

[mortal kite]

Oh and my problem solving strategy reveals my past as a (degreed) research meteorologist.

“If I knew what I was doing, it wouldn’t be called research”

Like, I can solve problems without prior knowledge rather easily, in part because I have skills in PKM. The issue is that’s kinda hard to put on a resume, or at least, I haven’t figured out a way to work it in.

Under which heading do I put Zettelkasten?

[turbid bobcat]

Some problems are pretty hard to solve without prior knowledge tho. You can do everything right but then get too many equally valid hypothesis to test

[mortal kite]

You say that like it’s a bad thing to have multiple hypotheses to play with.

[turbid bobcat]

It is if the leetcode type interview ends in 45 min ahah

And most times they're boring hypothesis too

[fringe sphinx]

To your question about interviewing: I think you should say things like: ‘I worked best when …’. Rather than describing it as a diagnosis/etc. Tell them the solution (how to use you effectively) rather than the problem (what you’re bad at, etc)

[mortal kite]

Then you pocket the hypotheses with the original problem in your notes, and come back stronger than before as you test them at home and learn from the experience

[mortal kite]

Okay, that is going directly into my Obsidian vault.

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah some things you just kinda have to know or you'll have a hard time. You can prove that 1+1=2 from the basic math axioms, but pragmatically you just want to memorize it

[mortal kite]

You don’t need something like leetcode for that. Just ask for some prior work. Far more efficient.

If I were to interview someone, I would have a code review session with something they had written before. I would have them explain their strategies, the decisions they made and why, how they approach testing, if they test, if they document, etc.

With a huge emphasis on documentation of course.

When I completely rewrote the api platform’s entire documentation from scratch, I did it because I was angry at the lack of it.

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, I'm not a hiring person and don't really know what I'd do if I were one. But one thing I like about the leetcode type of interviews is that they are something I can control for.

Take home tests and assignments, they not only take time, they are very subjective. And it can be frustrating if someone doesn't hire you based off of a tiny style disagreement.

[fringe sphinx]

That’s actually how I use projects on resumes: it gives me something to ask them about and hear their thought process. It’s frustrating when people list projects but then can’t talk about them

[mortal kite]

/me looks at the pile of unfinished projects

[fringe sphinx]

Tbh, even an unfinished project that you can talk about is more interesting than a finished project that you can’t

[mortal kite]

Is a project ever actually finished, though? If you learn a new skill later, you should update your projects to reflect it.

Which is why half of my projects use contextlib now.

[turbid bobcat]

I like projects because they let me show off skills that sometimes go underutilized on the job. And also ofc develop new ones.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, depending on your goals, having a project using the new buzzword tech in your field is probably a good (although cynical) strategy.

[turbid bobcat]

However, I wish I didn't have to practice so much leetcode and focus more on project. I think that the open source community suffers from this focus on leetcode and DSA. People grind leetcode instead of making open source.

[turbid bobcat]

Why do you say it's cynical though ?

[mortal kite]

I am hard focusing open source contributions this year. Apparently some of the better places really like when your GitHub graph is bright green.

[fringe sphinx]

It's possibly doing projects for the sake of appearances, rather than actually caring about it.

[mortal kite]

I mean, I always want to learn something new, but what’s the point of learning something new if you aren’t going to use it?

Confucius was right.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'm not so cynical myself: it's good to know the latest buzzword stuff, because at minimum it comes up in conversation... and it's hard to gauge whether something will become important, or just a flash in the pan.

[turbid bobcat]

I'm sure it's clear when someone does a project for passion and when someone is just following trends.

[vapid jay]

Is it, though?

At the risk of sounding too snarky, a big example of those waters being muddied is getting funded by venture capitalists. Yeah, somebody can have that -Jeff Bezos from the 90s Amazon.com interview- stare, and have a business that completely diverges from the trends of other companies. Problem is : Venture capitalists don't like that, they want unicorns but they also want unicorns in business sectors that dominate the others.

[turbid bobcat]

I believe it is, you can easily tell how passionate someone is about a topic just by listening to them talk about it

tone of voice, depth of knowledge, and the conversation never ends

[vapid jay]

I suppose that's fair.

[formal hornet]

hi

[blazing sage]

Survey? F off

Specifically F this server

[viral geode]

E

[pastel thunder]

where can i find buddy for research paper publishing? I need more papers

I am already working in research lab, but i need more papers, I can write parallely

lab doesnt allow two project parallely

[pure fractal]

Hello im not sure if this is the right channel to ask this. Can someone suggest me some cool python projects for learning?

[smoky quest]

!kindlings

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[smoky quest]

(and yeah, #python-discussion would be more appropriate as this is unrelated to #career-advice )

[pure fractal]

Thanks.

[pure fractal]

And also thanks.

[vocal zodiac]

hi

[worldly ridge]

is it just me or does every python job require some cloud/devops knowledge too?

[tidal zinc]

Anybody working with Django for a job?

[smoky quest]

it's not required for every job, but it's really useful

[silk mauve]

Python is used a lot for scripting and making basic tools in the cloud, often for devops purposes, like with AWS lambda. I guess the important thing to look into is what team the position is actually with

I'm already in DevOps, and studying python to make me a stronger devops candidate, so I def already know how relevant it is to the field

[weary sage]

Hi everyone,

can someone pls help recommend a well curated and properly outlined roadmap for Data Analytics, Last year, i'm 90% through into basics and fundamental of python programming, and i'd love to pussssh fwd into the data analysis part.. i understand roadmaps are subjective but a well outlined one with touches of mathematical and statistical contents would be very useful...

just like this one for **Datascience and AI **on roadmap.sh which points to the recommended materials...

I would also finf it very useful if most of the materials are pointed to Coursera where i can easily apply for a F.A...

Thank you

[silk mauve]

I'm confused, you seem to already have exactly what you're asking for. Why not just take that roadmap and search the topics on coursera?

wait, the courses linked on that roadmap ARE coursera, wtf do you actually want then

[weary sage]

i don't have a CS degree and not planning to enroll for one... i feel like it's harder to break into data sc w/o at least a college degree... so just looking to fall back on something like data analytics..

[silk mauve]

1.) the chances of getting a data science job without a degree is incredibly small, no matter how many coursera courses you have under your belt.

2. okay, I still don't get what you're currently asking for, open that roadmap you linked, and look at the courses linked on it

do you not like it because it's data scientist, and not "data analyst" or something?

[weary sage]

all i need is a roadmap specifically for data analysis not data science

[silk mauve]

I mean, maybe a hardcore data scientist/analyst can chime in, but from my experience, although there's technical difference between the two, in the IT industry, they're the exact same thing in practice.

especially at the beginner level, there is no reason to differentiate the two, you're going to learn the same programming skills, and maybe when your kickstart your career, you'll start focusing in the direction you want to go with it

[near ocean]

ime when people advertise data analyst positions its usually excel

[smoky quest]

as opposed to other areas like frontend, data analytics tends to rely more on the presence of degrees due to the higher level theory involved

[weary sage]

do you recommend that i go through same route recommended for data sc.. here

[smoky quest]

I recommend a CS degree as the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

I put a job ad out not too long ago about data scientist and most of the applicants had masters degrees in CS and related field.
You will have a hard time getting noticed.

[weary sage]

i'm half way into E.E... and really interested in Data Analytics.... idk about the U.S but doesn't seems too hard to break into here in my region...

[smoky quest]

that's the thing: it's not about you.
From the employer's perspective, it's about them. They get thousands of applicants with masters, great projects and awesome internships. Your EE is great but it ain't a CS degree

[weary sage]

hey, what do you think about coursera course labelled as credit status eligibility

[smoky quest]

You could try to switch to a CS degree or leverage all the time series math going in EE though. But it's still a cost function of how far you are and how you might reduce the risk to them

[smoky quest]

The same thing you would think of a coursera EE class 😉
If it is not a recognized degree (bs/ms/phd), then it's cool but doesn't matter

[weary sage]

thanks tho... rn, can't see the possibility of me changing to CS... but i'll still proceed to learning rhrough the path...

[smoky quest]

nothing is impossible, but be ready to consistently work harder than the others to get there. Good luck!

[weary sage]

sure. thanks. so God Help meë!

[outer rivet]

Hey, I heard that there was a trick to sneaking extra skills into a resume by modifying the PDF file using LaTeX and putting in additional text that will get picked up by resume parsers without actually adding readable text to the page. Is that true?

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/tony-stark-not-a-great-plan-no-gif-14973533

[outer rivet]

Why not?

I have more skills than a single page can hold, or at least skills that can be described in more ways, like database design + database administration.

[true harness]

how's that even going to go if you get an interview. "our ats says you have [skills], but your resume doesn't". or, "tell us about a project where you used [skill you added]

[summer roost]

abusing the company's computer systems is unlikely to be looked upon kindly, with maybe the possible exception of if you're applying for a security role in particular

[outer rivet]

Let's say I have experience in Database Design, Database Administration, SQL, PostgreSQL, and MySQL, but I can't fit all of them in a single sheet without the page going over, so maybe I have to simplify to just "databases" on the paper, but add the full details of skills in the "backend" as it were.

I'm not trying to lie, I'm trying to let them know more than what their parsers can pull from the raw text.

[true harness]

I would just list "SQL", then in a specific bullet you can write the specific dialect

[summer roost]

they believe they're running a parser that extracts text from the resume. If you trick it into extracting text that someone who reads the resume won't see, companies are going to see that as intentionally abusive, regardless of whether you're lying

and for most positions at most companies, intentionally abusing the company's systems as an applicant is unlikely to help you land a job

[outer rivet]

Hehehe. I still remember that one security company job I applied to where they sent me a test where I had to solve a puzzle in a file. The file was my resume. Fortunately, my college professor told me the trick where you can hide text inside of a file's binary. Lo and behold, there was a python script in it. I tried to run it, but for some reason, I couldn't find and install the libraries they were using for the script. Emailed them, but they didn't really help. They just kinda went *whelp*

[peak halo]

Then pick the ones that are most relevant for the position. This isn't four dimensional chess. You just need to convince the HR person that you're a viable applicant for the position.

[summer roost]

!pban 852811448593022987 gore

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @twin cave permanently.

[outer rivet]

Are they really going to put that much attention into the actual resume for any longer than 2 minutes before the interview? They likely won't even look at the actual skills that the parser picked out.

[summer roost]

if they notice the discrepancy between the skills recorded in the ATS and the skills stated on your resume, it's likely to hurt your chances of getting the job. I wouldn't risk it.

I think you're assuming that they rely on the ATS more than they actually do, in any event. If the job posting says that they're looking for someone who knows PostgreSQL, make sure to mention your experience with PostgreSQL in your bullets. They're not going to be combing through the ATS preferentially choosing candidates who also know MySQL and Database Administration

if you mention in your visible text that you've built stuff using the DB that they're using, having other DBs show up in their ATS isn't likely to help your chances at all. And conversely, if you don't mention in your visible text that you've built stuff using the DB that they're using, but they consult their ATS and it says that your resume does say that you have, then that seems likely to cause confusion and get them to start asking questions. If the answer to the questions is that you intentionally abused their ATS system to get it to summarize invisible things from your resume instead of just visible things, they're not gonna love that, most likely.

[gilded shell]

Yo

how do i add packages using replit ?

[summer roost]

your company uses replit?

[gilded shell]

yup

[summer roost]

I'd consult with your tech lead then, as the set of packages you're able to use in a corporate environment is likely constrained by licensing concerns