career-advice

[gentle pewter]

I love coding and i am learning coding cause i love automating stuff and i am passionate about gaming and creating games

Python helps me automate stuff, and create stuff like games even though my project are small

what about you ? why did you choose python ?

[vague robin]

Sick man, well in the future would like to go into careers which will use python and software etc so I thought why not learn earlier than later

[gentle pewter]

Well i wish you luck ! Start by the basics and try to stick to it

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling this is a great list of project ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[gentle pewter]

No one gave me that link

[vague robin]

How old are you automated and what are you studying if anything, I'm 17

[gentle pewter]

Games but my idea of automating stuff isn't well structured yet so don't ask me about it

I learned that automating stuff cannot be called automating anywhere, some stuff that sound automated to me are not really called automating

Damn they were right when they said everyone now=a-day blast their age for no reason that is interesting

I did not see anyone who did not tell me his age today, that is quiet interesting to witness

[vague robin]

What do you mean blast their age

[gentle pewter]

Sorry i usually say what i think without restraining myself, well today everyone told me his age, but shouldn't people not give personal stuff that easily ?

[vague robin]

Not really personal I don't think

[gentle pewter]

Forget

Goodluck with your journey buddy and

If you need any help you can ask in python discussion

[vague robin]

I scrolled up and you said you we're studying comp sci. I'm going to study chemical engineering at uni, trying to learn programming aswell to set myself up for finance and software jobs

[gentle pewter]

Well good luck then i dunno really what to tell you cause i dunno how chemical engineering is related to CS

[vague robin]

Alright thank you

[true harness]

chemical engineering for finance ?

[vague robin]

I'm interested in physics chemistry and maths, hence why I chose engineering and engineers can be hired into finance aswell

[placid sparrow]

Any advice for someone with no programming skills yet on which areas to learn if I wanna grow my income?

[smoky quest]

leverage your skills and experience to find your niche and advantage on the market

[lost glade]

Is discrete math important?

[hazy bluff]

Yeap
You can realize it in game development logic.

[summer roost]

depends on what sort of job you want

some software developers will use discrete math regularly, some will never use it

[regal axle]

I would say regardless of what you do, the basics of discrete matters. You use the basics all the time and formally learning it helps. But the depth you need to learn it does depend on what you want to do

[summer roost]

well, as a counterpoint: I never took a discrete math course, and if I've been using the basics of discrete math I'm totally unaware of that fact 😛

[peak halo]

sets, graphs (nodes and edges), combinatorics. do you use any of those?

oh, and propositional logic.

[summer roost]

yes to all of those. So I wonder what my uni taught in the discrete math class that I never took, then. I learned those in graph theory, statistics, and formal logic, respectively

ok, 🤷‍♂️ maybe I do use the basics of discrete math without realizing it, then, heh. Objection withdrawn

[peak halo]

I think my discrete math course also had us learn about sequences (ie, functions of only integers) and how to calculate their sums (and whether or not that sum is infinity). and I've never used that.

[regal axle]

Discrete maths is very vague. But it’s “the math of CS”. More specifically, there is massive overlap of how things work in a language and the formal maths. So even if you don’t learn the names or explicit topic; you are using it.

There is a really specific definition for discrete math. However, what actually ends up being taught is the vague part

[smoky quest]

tbh, I would be a lot more nuanced than that.
Sure, some folks will end up being a frontend developer for 40 years. But I will contend that it won't be the majority, not just because it has only been a a thing for the last 25 years rather than the last 70 years, but also because there is so much more to it.
A CS degree and a software engineers are about being able to build any software. And it's common for an engineer to switch domain and area over the course of their 40 years career. And further, anyone can benefit from such knowledge, like having knowledge of graph theory is hugely beneficial when working at a social media company.

I could also cite how propositional logic was also quite useful in the realm of enterprise software or observability.
That type of knowledge can make a difference for a career, product and open new doors

[peak halo]

@smoky quest these are examples of topics from my discrete math course that I have used

[peak halo]

I have never used this.
But in either case, I haven't made any statements about the utility of having a discrete math course in a CS degree program.

[smoky quest]

that's kind of my point that it doesn't matter if we have seen specific topics and not. We may not see something and not need it until 10 years later.
Or we may not need it directly but is useful to know about it as it can help build a mental model of how things work and what to expect out of them

[fringe sphinx]

This is why my bias is towards learning -anything- new. As long as you’re learning, you’re doing the right thing. (Repeating what a personal trainer told me: novices and intermediates worry too much about the workout program, and not about just putting the time in… novices can lift -anything- and get stronger)

[smoky quest]

people are sometimes surprised about how seemingly different topics can be applied in completely different areas

[stoic atlas]

discrete math is the field of math that deals with objects that are not continuous. Arguably, computer science is a subset of discrete math. At the very least, most discrete math techniques have applications in computer science. Outside of the already cited sets, graph theory, counting/combinatorics, there's also boolean algebra, trees, state machines, etc. My personal favorite example is pointing out that an induction proof is more or less recursion.

[stoic atlas]

sequences and summations have some conceptual mapping to for loops and understanding one helps in understanding the other

[balmy flax]

What kind of projects do recruiters like for a full stack developer in their resume

[quiet tinsel]

Hi...
a real mediocre programmer here... not really exposed to how the developer/programmer industry works and would like to know more and realistically where I fit in
background: my experience is in analytics/BI, finance degree, moved into data analyst roles and now moved into a data engineer role
I'm in Australia and the industry doesn't seem as mature over here...

Looking for a mentor of sorts...
Would be great to chat with anyone experienced with navigating careers in this space and what it takes to level up / compete in this field

[cursive nexus]

Probably Flask / Django if you mean Python projects. stuff with a database

[buoyant seal]

React/Vuejs/Angular + smth backendish.
Backendish stuff from node.js, python (Fastapi, Django Ninja) to Golang and Java/Kotlin and even Rust.

Some Frontend+ backend in node.js both in typescript is pretty solid start for full stack dev.
Also common to try hybrid tech like Next.js and Nuxt.js

Usually end level of full stack dev tech rumoured, to see someone able to do full stack with Rust yew/Leptos + its back

[buoyant seal]

Tldr, do everything in typescript, from front to back. U will not be mistaken then for full stack stuff

[buoyant seal]

U ask kind of too much time investment. There are platforms that offer mentoring stuff, but for this platform I will recommend asking something more precise 😉

[buoyant seal]

https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
Project ideas.

I recommend doing any projects u have passion for. They aren't really obligated to be web specific, but at least few ones should be

[quiet tinsel]

Are there remote working jobs for people to work a second job and complete work outside usual work hours?

[proven crest]

Some contract work may have this flexibility, as may jobs you can find on places like upwork

[gritty rivet]

Depending on where in the world you are, what kinds of skills and experience you have, and how much you're trying to earn.... Maybe. If you're asking as a newbie just learning Python then it will be difficult.

[peak halo]

This is the career discussion channel. Try asking in #internals-and-peps

[royal zodiac]

I dont know where to ask: But do some have the discord.py server? If so, please dm

[peak halo]

Ask in #discord-bots

[royal zodiac]

thanks

[analog river]

Peace everyone. I was wondering if anyone can recommend a good place to begin learning the basics of writing code? I have just been mainly copying and pasting code, but I'm not really understanding what I'm doing or how to think about it. I'm really interested in the idea of solving issues. Is there a book or something I can be directed to? Thanks

Im looking to make python my first coding language

[fringe sphinx]

For advice like this, could you ask over in #python-discussion ?

[analog river]

My apologies

[mighty cobalt]

what would be the best advice for someone who tried web development but did not find interest in it, started learning python but don't know where to go after that

[fringe sphinx]

Start with small projects to get comfortable, then start projects that interest you: it’s hard at first, but with practice it’ll come together.

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling is a good resource for project ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[mighty cobalt]

thanks!

[near remnant]

would you guys accept an offer from a company which doesn't have a LinkedIn company page? So when you would put the experience into your profile, you can't add the company, I mean you can write the name of the company but it will be ugly gray icon and it won't redirect you to the company's page.

[peak halo]

if it's otherwise a good offer, that seems like an unusual reason to reject it.

[true harness]

still asking about this? how long do you have to think about the offer

[near remnant]

still asking that i'm still asking about this?

[true harness]

i think that's the first time

[near remnant]

well, I have OCD or something like that and it bothers me. I mean i can easily put it into my resume but my linkedin profile would make my OCD hurt 💀

[gritty rivet]

Not a career issue, seek therapy

[regal axle]

If your ocd is hindering your career growth; seek therapy
It’s only a problem once it negatively impacts your day to day. And it sounds like it is

[summer roost]

I would not consider that as a factor in my decision at all

[peak halo]

Being anxious about improbable things is not OCD. But I would encourage you to only worry about improbable things to the extent that you can prepare for them to an extent that is commensurate with their probability.

[near remnant]

Yeah, you guys are right

[fringe sphinx]

LinkedIn just isn’t as important as people thought it would become: it’s a lot of junk noise, out of date profiles, etc. it’s worth putting the minimum effort in and that’s it.

[torpid seal]

excuse me, is there any channel for newbie?

[smoky quest]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[torpid seal]

ty

[buoyant seal]

Mobile and desktop app developments are options too.

Also web development is not limited to frontend development. Backend, DevOps, Data engineering exist there too

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 9 Offering payment is not allowed here.

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fringe sphinx]

Also this sounds highly unethical and not a good strategy: you don’t know sql or python, yet are completing a coding assignment in those languages? And expect that if you complete the test, you’ll do well in the rest of the interview?

Take home tests are just screens: you should expect equal or harder questions live/in person.

[icy parcel]

ppl rlly expect to be able to live life && get paid as menial peon workers

tht era is over yall not gonn be able to find jobs within the next 5years

[peak halo]

Why not?

[fringe sphinx]

So what’s the winning strategy?

[icy parcel]

Computer science isn't viable anymore if your goal is to get paid as a worker

[peak halo]

You're restating the premise. I'm asking why you think that.

[icy parcel]

AI apparatuses in IDE's r being gradually aggrandized

[fringe sphinx]

My money is on ‘gpt is coming to take our jerbs’

[icy parcel]

Doesn't change the fact CS workers will eventually be obsoleted

[fringe sphinx]

Is that your argument? GPT/AI will obsolete SWEs?

[icy parcel]

^^Workers will be obsoleted, not CS as a whole

[peak halo]

AI tools are pretty capable and useful, but I think the worst case scenario for developers in the foreseeable future is that entry level positions become more competitive. There are too many aspects of development for which a robust AI solution isn't even on the horizon.

(I train and experiment with LLMs professionally.)

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, (and perhaps semantics) altho I prefer to say that it’s some of the lower-skill positions rather than entry level… but same idea.

[icy parcel]

whts the point of hiring a team of menial workers when u could jst hire a single capable person

[peak halo]

I think we're debating different points.

[icy parcel]

cuz thats what entry level positions are, purely menial

[fringe sphinx]

^ and, yes, I would prefer to hire only mythical 10ers. Good luck hiring only the best.

[icy parcel]

eventual boom in freelancing^

[peak halo]

I don't think that entry level positions are "purely menial", but I do think AI tools could raise the baseline level of skill one needs to work as a developer.

[fringe sphinx]

You’re also not making an argument, you’re stating conclusions: why do you think this is a viable me strategy? Why would one person be able to replace multiple SWEs? Did Google/search engines put SWes out of jobs?

[icy parcel]

you'd be below the competition

[digital fjord]

Is there a survey of senior devs/managers if they even want to not have teams of Juniors in favor of having a really good AI?

[icy parcel]

AI is perpetually improving^

[peak halo]

Not really. Each leap like generative LLMs are hard-won.

[surreal stream]

#include<stdio.h>

int main(){
    printf("Hello world");
    return 0;
}

[peak halo]

What is this? This is the career discussion channel.

[hasty oracle]

Someone know what is KNN?

[peak halo]

Might be k nearest neighbors. Ask in #data-science-and-ml

[spark cloak]

So I'm considering going into the field of ml engineering, but Im also really interested in data manipulation and analysis. Because of that, I'm considering getting an undergrad in data science, but I'm wondering whether or not that's a good enough degree to get a job in ml engineering or if that would only be good for a data scientist job.

So, what undergraduate degree would be best for going into ml engineering, and is a data science degree enough?

[dense mesa]

Computer science or mathematics

[vapid jay]

BRO WHAT

ohhh, KNN, oops

[limpid shuttle]

do you know any good freelancing websites other than fiverr and upwork?

[near ocean]

Those are the biggest ones

[limpid shuttle]

Yup ik but it's hard to get through all the gigs.

[near ocean]

Thats just how freelancing is

[gritty rivet]

You basically have to work for free until you build a reputation. Even then there is no guarantee you'll ever do well enough to make it worth it. Getting a normal job is so much easier.

[limpid shuttle]

I would, but now it's impossible because even if i want to set low price there is minimal price that i can set. I'd like to work in normal job but i'm only teenager so freelancing is only option that I can do.

[near ocean]

You dont have to do software freelance if you just want a job for money

[gritty rivet]

There are normal jobs for teenagers

[limpid shuttle]

Where i can find them?

[gritty rivet]

Local businesses, job boards, etc. What do your friends and classmates do?

[sullen forge]

can anyone tell me what should I learn Web development or DSA

[gritty rivet]

DSA is useful for any programming whatsoever. Web development is useful for web development.

[gritty rivet]

Most people who do much coding learn both

[sullen forge]

i am beginner then which language should I learn first

[near ocean]

checks server name

[harsh river]

python

[charred orbit]

I am working on a compiler, it is in python, but it is going to likely take months for me to finish/reach a stage where i'd stop developing. Im a sophmore in university and I am interested in seeking out opportunities, should I list this on my resume and if so how would i phrase it? its a public repo on my github too

[regal axle]

Python is a good first language. But truth be told; it doesn’t matter. The most important thing is to learn something. Eventually it will be trivial to pick up a new language (relatively speaking). And so the important thing is to pick a language that has good community support and resources for learning from 0. More important than that, pick a language that lets you make things that excite you. But that’s harder to do right when you start. So don’t really worry about it

[wicked tinsel]

whats the repo link?

[charred orbit]

on my resume

[mighty cobalt]

what would be the best path of learning backend using python ? and do python backend developer have scope in current recession scenarios?

[fringe sphinx]

Write code, build projects that interest you, repeat. There’s no ‘path’ to backend development: there’s an infinite number of paths, so prioritize “doing”. With practice, you’ll get good.

[mighty cobalt]

ok, will try this approach!

[gritty rivet]

there's a suggested path on roadmap.sh but I agree with BillyBobby... The key is to build stuff.

[charred orbit]

pinged wrong person lol

[gritty rivet]

Oops, sorry!

[unkempt heron]

Im a bit curious about datascience, its skills are so distinct from webdev and software developing that I often wonder if creating a good kaggle account and improving my leetcode is enough to get a job

It feels much more niche. Any data scientists have any feedback I would appreciate it

[lost sage]

"""data scientist""" here. i would think it depends on what kind of work you want your organization to be doing, more than webdev or software development roles. I went into a very old one and ended up mostly running access reports to start. I only have a 1-year community university data science certification and two unrelated majors. I use domain knowledge from those majors and related job experience for my role.

There are "more pure" data science roles, especially at places that sell on that (tech marketing/ads).

[gritty rivet]

I'm not in DS but my impression is that both things are true because it's a vague title. On the one hand there are jobs that require an advanced degree, on the other there are many where a portfolio demonstrating relevant skills goes a long way

[unkempt heron]

Im in a situation where I got a mentor through a friend of a friend and he basically told me to go on kaggle and leetcode and practice there and share my account with him. He told me not to worry about certs or education. My worry is I am being tasked with something that is basically to satisfy his obligations to his friend and might actually be counter productive for me

The learning curve is quite steep on kaggle to say the least, I dont get how this is a junior role

If I do master this I would basically have to go all in, and by that time is kaggle enough to get a job? I would basically have to avoid doing anything else

to put it simply, it's a way to dissuade me and might ultimately be a waste of time. He's a very kind person so I dont want to make any assumptions but I am worried that I might be heading towards a dead end

[lost sage]

Potentially, but I personally can't speak to that. I was similarly told to go grind Kaggle & leetcode during my cert courses, but I knew where I was going and had already learned to solve some of the challenges I wanted to tackle by learning Python & using it in data science. But I like not constantly focusing on productivity in my free time.

[unkempt heron]

I feel like once I break through the data cleaning and visualization part I could fly through most of these contests but they are very time consuming. Im basically putting my own trading projects on hold and it's frustrating to say the least

[vapid jay]

i have question

[unkempt heron]

it does seem like an industry that is a bit more 'wild west' with the rise of AI

[dense mesa]

How would kaggle be enough?

[lost sage]

Opinion here: I feel like Kaggle would be a good idea if you're applying to places where there are data science teams and they, too, have used Kaggle, or other online learning tools. You'd have to try harder to pitch it to less fully data-science focused businesses as "independent learning", and will want to focus on your portfolio and how it matches or exceeds what people learned in collegiate settings.

simply because those hiring you are more familiar with collegiate setting education

[smoky quest]

a degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[unkempt heron]

unfortunately not an option, Im old and live in one of the most expensive cities so have to do this parttime

[unkempt heron]

Thank you for that explanation, thats kind of what he said too. Said it was a way of standing out

[smoky quest]

Your competition will be kids with degrees and kaggle and projects and internships.
Is your past experience relevant in any way?

Either way, if you don't have the pressure to make a choice with school, going the route as suggested by your friend can't hurt. Worst case you learned something, best case he can help getting you hired somewhere

[unkempt heron]

oilfield, and military, a bit of blue collar stuff here and there. Not really relevant in an obvious way, but he said it wouldnt be so bad in the sense that many people in various companies would prefer working with someone like me because there would be a smaller bridge

[lost sage]

If your mentor is a potential lead to a job, it's probably worthwhile.

[unkempt heron]

this is actually what I suspect, and kaggle is something of a test

[acoustic plaza]

How much is an average python freelance earnings

[near ocean]

Not enough
Most freelancers earn nothing basically

[still condor]

what about it

it's not a message from discord, it's just that user trying to be edgy with their about me

[acoustic plaza]

I had it for 3 years

[still condor]

being suspected of being a member of a terrorist organization doesn't seem to be against any ToS on its own
If you want to discuss further, please message @severe widget

[acoustic plaza]

Ill change it if you don't feel comfortable

[fringe sphinx]

Freelance can also mean a lot of things, from consultants to small projects (fiverr) stuff. Important to be clear what you really mean

[still condor]

It also depends on your region, if you plan to work (mostly) locally

[woven apex]

freelancing is a state of employment, not a specific field
be thorough with explaining what you want to do

[acoustic plaza]

I thought freelancing was just getting a client and doing a project they want to be done and get paid for ur service

[acoustic plaza]

Ye

[harsh river]

freelancing basically means you don't work for a company, you're an independent person and you seek the jobs

[still condor]

If you're an experienced freelancer you can call yourself a "consultant" 🙂

[woven apex]

consult deez nuts

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I’ve never called that freelancing, that’s just being an independent consultant. To me, freelance is somewhat project based task work. Corporate world, I’ve never described it as freelancing, tbh

[still condor]

please fax me the directions

[woven apex]

can I get your fax number then

[acoustic plaza]

Oh ok

[harsh river]

i got warned for something like this before .-.

[woven apex]

it's because I'm built silly :v

[still condor]

!warn @woven apex Please review our #rules and #code-of-conduct

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @woven apex.

[woven apex]

thanks fix

ah, right, this is career-discussion, sorry

[still condor]

||our rules never say "the rules will be applied consistently without nepotism"||

[dense mesa]

This channel used to be pretty decent lol

[woven apex]

!warn 461097636791844865 favoritism based on role hierarchy is not okay

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied warning to @still condor.

[woven apex]

alright, we've got that out the way

back to the topic at hand

[acoustic plaza]

What happened to not being decent enough to be compared to the past "used "

[fringe sphinx]

What?

[acoustic plaza]

I love being a waffler and a yapper

[fringe sphinx]

You’d make a good consultant.

[acoustic plaza]

Confuse the clients lol

[woven apex]

Yikes, don't just call out a bunch of people like that, Billy

[vapid jay]

damn all nerds here

[pine sleet]

nerds? in a programming discord server? you don't say

[vapid jay]

lol

[smoky quest]

you will feel right at home

[vapid jay]

HELP MY NAME IS KIAAN

[supple fossil]

hello, i have been getting contacted by recruiters. I am curious sometimes they are from indian call centers, or just outsourced. But I am hesitant to work with these calls, because sometimes they ask me for the last digits of my social.

Are these a scam?

[smoky quest]

there is no reason for anyone to get your last digits of your social until you get an offer

[supple fossil]

thats what i thought, but i just got like 10 calls back to back and it reminded me to ask other peoples experiences.

I generally don't answer these call center calls, or 3rd party caller calling on behalf of a org or something.

[vapid jay]

you gotta be joking

you're doing a ban speedrun, aren't you?

@marsh thistle this person is saying they're 10

[naive horizon]

so they got banned ig

[vapid jay]

Uhh yeah what about it

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C87cjK3ajo4

[naive horizon]

idk i was just stateing the obi

[vapid jay]

ppl do that all the time

[vapid jay]

ok

[smoky quest]

Hi, it's not a channel for shitposting

[naive horizon]

where is that?

[vapid jay]

This probably doesn't have a shitpost channel.... considering this is for programming experts and newbs alike

[naive horizon]

sadge

[vapid jay]

im so sorry

Bro (bro as in me) sounded like the fnaf narrator 😂

[cursive estuary]

lol

[fringe sphinx]

Scam. No recruiter needs any of your info other than resume. Anything else, like background check, is between you and hiring company/HR. A background check (post-offer) often needs social.

[potent karma]

who need the code of subway surfer

is something bad?
import pygame
import random

Initialize Pygame

pygame.init()

Define some colors

WHITE = (255, 255, 255)
RED = (255, 0, 0)

Define the display size

WIDTH = 480
HEIGHT = 320

Create the display

screen = pygame.display.set_mode((WIDTH, HEIGHT))

Set the title

pygame.display.set_caption("Subway Surfer")

Load the background image

background = pygame.image.load("background.png")

Load the player image

player = pygame.image.load("player.png")

Load the obstacle image

obstacle = pygame.image.load("obstacle.png")

Set the player's initial position

player_x = 50
player_y = 100

Set the obstacle's initial position

obstacle_x = random.randint(300, 450)
obstacle_y = random.randint(100, 220)

Set the obstacle's speed

obstacle_speed = 2

Game loop

running = True
while running:
# Handle events
for event in pygame.event.get():
if event.type == pygame.QUIT:
running = False

# Update the obstacle's position
obstacle_x -= obstacle_speed

# Check for collisions
if pygame.Rect(player_x, player_y, 50, 50).colliderect(pygame.Rect(obstacle_x, obstacle_y, 50, 50)):
    print("Game Over")
    running = False

# Check if the obstacle is off the screen
if obstacle_x + obstacle.get_width() < 0:
    obstacle_x = random.randint(300, 450)
    obstacle_y = random.randint(100, 220)

# Draw the background, player, and obstacle
screen.blit(background, (0, 0))
screen.blit(player, (player_x, player_y))
screen.blit(obstacle, (obstacle_x, obstacle_y))

# Update the display
pygame.display.flip()

Quit Pygame

pygame.quit()

[regal axle]

1 no ChatGPT
2 wrong channel

[potent karma]

ah?

[regal axle]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[potent karma]

i made with chatgpt why im new

i made with blackbox

[weary sage]

hello, any channel to get data analysis resources on this server?

[potent karma]

i'm new i don't know

[smoky quest]

congrats! But this is the wrong place as this channel is #career-advice and is about careers

[smoky quest]

#data-science-and-ml would be a good start

[weary sage]

thanks and have fun!

[safe coral]

when I first moved here, I was a victim of a scam. The recruiter on Indeed asked my social security number and stuff and sent me a check to cash as a welcome offer. The check was invalid @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that’s a classic. ‘Cash this check’ or ‘Buy xyz and send it to me and we’ll reimburse’.

** no company should ever need you to ‘cash a check’, or use your personal bank account, or anything like that.

As a PSA: https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how-spot-avoid-report-fake-check-scams

[compact schooner]

Hi

[marble pollen]

I need some advice on what type of personal project I should start to finish my resume. On my resume I have a internship around AV safety, I have a project on sentiment analysis of tweets, and one on hand sign recognition with mediapipe. I feel like thats having NLP, AV, and image recognition. So i'm not sure what to do my last project with. All i know is i want it to be using TF or pytorch. I just want an impressive machine learning project. any suggestions

[winged pulsar]

do you guys think that in the future getting a job will be easier? like do you think it will still be oversaturated?

[regal axle]

Yes and no. We shall see how things go but part of the issue is not over-saturation but rather, that the economy is not doing well right now. Companies are in a survive mode vs a grow mode. Even if they want to grow, they have to be a lot more selective. As the economy comes back to normal, getting a job should become easier.

But I also think that it will be harder to get jobs in the future vs how it has been in the past. While it will get easier compared to the right now; it used to be way too easy to get any type of tech job.

All of this of course is an overgeneralization of the market and each subdomain has its own supply/demand that is different from other tech domains.

[regal axle]

It doesn't really need to be "impressive" to anyone but you. The most important part of a personal project is that you can passionatly go into detail about it. If they ask you about it, you have more to say than just the stats. Do something you find interesting and don't worry too much about it being a perfect puzzle piece in your application.

[vapid jay]

I Dunno What To Become Yet, Im 15 And Next Year For School, I Have To Pick Smth, Can You Guys Help Me? Like A Career That Pays Well And Is Respectable Ofc I Will Put My Power Into It To Actually Succeed, Technically For Now I Only Know The print(), input(), if-elif-else(), list[] & Conditional Functions

[final lava]

Hello maybe its the wrong chaat but i want to know to do i sent a permanent discord friend request link to other e.g github?

[fringe sphinx]

I believe things will improve significantly next year. Last year was very unique: massive layoffs from big tech caused by a few factors (fear of a recession, over hiring, etc). Right now, money is tight due to interest rates, which will slow expansion by tech companies. It’s not a fundamental change in the demand for SWEs or AI or anything like that; it’s macro economic/business factors at play.

[fringe sphinx]

Definitely wrong chat, ask in one of the off topic channels.

[gentle pewter]

Hello people !

[fringe sphinx]

If you like or are interesting in programming: then spend a year learning Python. Learn the basics, and start making small projects (ask in #python-discussion for ideas)… projects that interest you. Programming is a useful skill in many careers: it’s not just for software engineers. Learning it at 15 will help you find an educational/career path.

[gentle pewter]

Now after finishing a full video of 4 hours 2 twice for all the basics of python, i wanna get involved in projects !

And i want to get involved in project related to gamedev, how do i do that

[fringe sphinx]

Awesome.. #python-discussion is a better place to ask for project ideas. More people and more ideas.

[gentle pewter]

Thank you Billy !

[vapid jay]

Thx BillyBobby

[harsh river]

<@&831776746206265384>

[kind marsh]

!cban 702029602830155836

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @tidal crest permanently.

[kind marsh]

that's not the kinda career this channel's for...

[obtuse vapor]

what is the best way to learn data structures and algo

[peak halo]

try asking in #algos-and-data-structs

[obtuse vapor]

okok

[vague robin]

Does anyone in here work in quant finance, if so, what type of programming skills do you use on the job?

[hearty island]

there’s a great r/finance discord server out there

[hearty island]

iirc they have a quant channel too

[stuck stone]

Any tips on how to not get lost

I keep getting off tracked between python,webdev,machine learning

[fringe sphinx]

Focus on projects, not learning skills for the sake of learning.

[stuck stone]

thank you

[noble quail]

morning

[sudden geyser]

Would anyone here be willing to help look over my resume? I've had friends say it's good but I'm not confident in it

[regal axle]

Send it over. (pictures only)
Don't forget to blur out any personal info. Or don't

[vapid jay]

Hi guys

Im new here .and i look forward to learn from others and also teach orders in this community?

[acoustic jasper]

wdym teach orders

[vapid jay]

I will look forward to teach Hacking related courses??

[vapid jay]

I look forward to teach Hacking related courses..

[acoustic jasper]

Ok

[regal axle]

I meant send it here. I don't do DMs (despite them being open. maybe I should update that)

[regal axle]

Shoutout to that one guy who called me a dumb pig and then threatened to kill me in my sleep 😄
I was never actually threatened. But like ,,, why bother with DMs when that type of behavior doesn't happen in the "public" (this was not this server don't worry)

[sudden geyser]

Completely understandable, do you mind just downloading the pdf I sent or I can resend it as a screenshot, don't really want everyone in the channel to be able to see it. There's some stuff that could be identifying that's also a part of the actual content I can't just replace or blur out

[smoky quest]

anonymize it

[vapid jay]

Are part time jobs harder to find than full time ones?

When I look on LinkedIn the number of part time jobs are way lesser.

[sudden geyser]

Alright this should work

[smoky quest]

companies will prefer full time engineers to part time ones

[vapid jay]

Any specific fields/roles where part time roles are easier to get? Early in the career.

[fringe sphinx]

That’s kinda the problem. Who wants to hire a junior engineer part time? I wouldn’t.

[vapid jay]

After roughly how many years of experience would you consider hiring a part time engineer?

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, they’d have to have some very specific expertise or skill where they would add value to the team. That said; with about 10 years experience, I started consulting

[smoky quest]

Are you looking for internships?

Some random notes:

• Show, don't tell. People think superman is strong because he lifts cars in one hand, not because he keeps shouting it
• I would start with the education first to ease people into it and give them context about who they are talking to
• Readers may wince at your bold 84% of hospital using an API and to which you have no contribution nor claim
• Self imposed deadlines are meaningless
• CRUD apis are basic stuff. Making it bold implies that's something you find challenging and worth bragging about, which in turns make you look weak because you are finding challenging some basic stuff

[sudden geyser]

Yeah I'm looking for internships, thanks for the advice

[smoky quest]

it's alright, but it's a bit too vague and missing details.

Overall, the resume is nice but the main thing I would suggest is to add more impact. Your current job describes you doing so many things but there is no description of their impact

It would be nice to get a sense of what you are dealing with and improvements you did

Or like for your LHC internship, there is zero info on the model or your approach

You could give a sense of scale about the number of documents processed, size of clusters, etc.
You could also give a sense of how it performs comparing to your dataset with training/validation, etc.
You could also give a sense of how much it has improved the life of your customers (ex: time saved)

[kindred rock]

So... I got some experience, about 1.5 years.
And when I start looking for a job, interviews are no longer in a form of asking some python question and code solving problem.
They become more abstract and vague, with architecture building problems and discussing possible solutions to some problems.

How do you prepare to that kind of interviews?
Since there is no way to know the questions before-hand.

[quiet tinsel]

Looking for very general discussion / advice / feedback from experienced & established software engineers
will pay a little for this - how much depends on your knowledge....
context: Live/work in Australia. 4 years data analyst, 1 year data engineer (current).
Simply looking to understand where I fit in the industry (how skilled/unskilled I am), how remote jobs work / how to find them, and how I can 'level-up'
DM me if interested

[vapid jay]

Guys i am looking a full stack developer for a collaboration

[crystal mulch]

eh... which programmer related job is most recommened for the next 10 years??

[vapid jay]

no one knows

[crystal mulch]

ikr

hard to answer

[fringe sphinx]

Software engineer.

[crystal mulch]

[fathom urchin]

Hello, I've got a weird question lol. I am currently working as a welder but been thinking about switching career to software engineer/developer. I am 22. And am looking for a education, which will cost 4 years.

You guys think that is reasonable, or will I be too old to find a job?😅

[true harness]

very reasonable

[hearty island]

practical and reasonable, i agree w psvm

[fathom urchin]

Thanks guys!

[regal axle]

Most reasonable thing I’ve heard in awhile

[gritty rivet]

How much self-learning have you done? Have you seen the free CS50 course from Harvard for example?

I would say dive in and learn as much as you can with free resources first just to confirm you actually like programming enough to stick with it.

As long as you do, then absolutely, get the four year degree in CS and it will be a worthwhile investment.

[fathom urchin]

I've been interested in this for a couple quite a while now. I am trying my best to see examples on Google and try it out on python. Didn't take real "classes" yet, just self taught. And I have been using free apps such as those:

But thanks for the tip about the free course! I will be looking into that:p

[hearty island]

i really like mit ocw's course so far

and the lectures are fun to watch

[wicked tinsel]

Im looking for an internship right now, what are things / tips to set yourself apart from other applicants. Also, how useful is a clean and filled github profile?

[hearty island]

amazingly useful, gives employers a clear view into what you do and what you want to do

[hearty island]

i would recommend tailoring your projects and your resume to what you want to get into

[hearty island]

emphasize demonstrable impacts as well

[wicked tinsel]

demonstrable impacts?

[hearty island]

right

what exactly was improved, what exactly was accomplished? be able to talk about it on an interview. for example, why'd you use x tool and not y tool?

[regal axle]

I don't 100% agree. It depends on your experience level to an extent, but demonstration of ability is more important than pure demonstration of a specific framework / skill. It depends of course on how related topics are; but you don't have to make all of your projects purely about the job you want to get. You just need to show that you can create and program. You can worry about learning some super specific thing for an interview or while on the job.

[hearty island]

idk, if someone was going into a data analytics role, i would expect them to have a project or two related to that

but i do agree w you, demonstration of ability is very important

[regal axle]

I might expect them to have a project in that space. But not all of their projects in that space. Someone who is able to go deep into a topic is a valuable person. Even if that topic isn't specifically "data analytics"

[hearty island]

yea

[rare hearth]

hey yall

[vapid jay]

Yo I just wanted to ask something if i wanna become a machine learning engineer, what should I do after learning python.

By the way currently im learning python from Bro Code on youtube

[hearty island]

how's your math?

[vapid jay]

Like in school?

[hearty island]

yeah. you'd wanna aim for at least ap calc

[vapid jay]

Very good, could be better tho (I can do more but im lazy sometimes). I take 8 hours a week of math (thats how we messure where it where I live + its the highest form of math in highschool). But in general im very good at it, right now we are doing precalc. like logarithmic and irrational functions trigonometrical functions and all those

[hearty island]

that's good, keep leveling your math up

[vapid jay]

I see, is there something else I can do? Like in freetime

[hearty island]

mit ocw has a lot of good courses (will not stop vouching for them). openintro stats has an entire free textbook

[vapid jay]

Lol I'll make sure to check em out, + I also noticed where i live there is no direct degree for ML so should I just do CS or maybe software engineering? (for the near future)

[near ocean]

Either of those would work, its a very flexible degree

[hearty island]

yeah i agree w mar

[vapid jay]

I see, thank you both of you I appreciate ur help

[hearty island]

np

[peak halo]

It's a very new thing that one can have an entire career about ML as someone other than a computer science professor. So universities and accrediting agencies haven't reached a consensus about what an ML-specific degree should be

So computer science is still the way to go if you want to work in ML, but your coursework has to actually be about ML.

[hearty island]

i so wish there was a biz analytics server out there on discord

[safe coral]

did you try the data analytics server? @hearty island

[marsh thistle]

The bot sniped it, so here ya go: https://discord.com/invite/te4jFReWXr

[dapper harness]

hello

[prisma canyon]

happy new year mates!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hybrid token]

well guys its time to start python

[vapid jay]

всех с новым годом

[smoky quest]

Welcome aboard!
Let's use english too

[smoky quest]

!rule 4

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[hearty island]

is that more biz analytics oriented?

[hearty island]

it’s kinda a dead server 😦

[safe coral]

is it? That sucks 😦

[vapid jay]

5 years of programming and I still cant do simple leetcode problems

I'm killing myself

[balmy spade]

Not even something to joke about.

leetcode is a very specific type of logic puzzle that uses programming. You can understand how to program and not understand leetcode problems. ((I certainly don't get them))

[sudden geyser]

I’m using the neetcode 150 rn, feels less daunting if you want to try it. I was in the same situation where I’d programmed a lot but dsa was making no sense

[smoky quest]

I would recommend to start by learning about DSA prior to jumping into exercises which won't make sense.
There is "introduction to algorithms" which is a great book

[vapid jay]

womp womp

[vapid jay]

I'll look into it

[vapid jay]

Thanks

[jolly maple]

As a new years resolution for myself, I really want to further my python learning, and what better way to do that than with a team. I'm relatively new to python, but I'd love to help out on a project if possible. If anyone knows where i can find a group, i would be interested in hearing what options there are. Happy New Years everyone!

[opal zealot]

Hi, What language should I use for DSA?? Does using python for DSA a good practice or I should go for java or c++? (I want to prepare for job interviews)

[minor sage]

I find data structures in C++ to be a lot less abstract and opaque. You can do them in Python but it's hard to wrap your head around why / how things work unless you have a good understanding of what a "reference" means

In Python everything is magic references, so you can't really contrast them against things which aren't references to understand the differences.

C++ is a lot more explicit on this subject, so the construction of the data structure is a lot more obvious IMO.

[near ocean]

checks server name
Use python

[white relic]

For interview practice, you should use whatever language you plan to use in an interview (should you be expected to do a whiteboard or live coding problem, and the choice of language up to you). This is probably the language you are most familiar and comfortable with. C++ might have its merits, but are you going to learn a whole language just for a possibly slightly higher chance to impress in interviews? Or is it smarter to invest in a skill you expect to use on the job?

If you want to learn C++ for its own sake, that's different.

[opal zealot]

But is it true like if you practice with c++ you will learn better about the topic rather than using python?

Because I am learning python now, so I think I will just start doing basics of dsa with python and switch to any other language later if required.

[white relic]

Learning more languages will make you a more seasoned and well rounded engineer. Up to a point. Learning one language in depth is more important early in your career, IMO.

[opal zealot]

yes, Can you guide how should I learn python?

I am going to leetcode to solve dsa problems with python 🏃‍♂️ 🏃‍♂️

[glossy elk]

Hey everyone, I just received a job offer for an artificial intelligence/machine learning role with a remote work option, but it's offering very low salary. I also have an offer from other for a data science role in a different state and is entirely WFO, with a slightly higher salary.

Although the higher salary is tempting, I'm more passionate about machine learning. I'm concerned that starting at low salary might limit my future salary growth if I change roles. Any advice or thoughts on navigating this situation?

[gritty rivet]

Take the job you want. Your next employer doesn't need to know what your earlier salary is

[near ocean]

One thing they need to consider is whether they're ok with sticking with the low pay for 2 or 3 years after which they'll probably jump upwards

It sounds like money is more important to them than the area of software they work in

[fringe sphinx]

Increasingly, US universities are teaching Python as the introductory language, and Python for DSA https://m-cacm.acm.org/blogs/blog-cacm/176450-python-is-now-the-most-popular-introductory-teaching-language-at-top-us-universities/fulltext

[glossy elk]

A lot of employers ask for your previous salary when applying that's why

[fringe sphinx]

You’re not required to answer. Nor will they judge it against you. (At least where I live)

[glossy elk]

I will most likely switch jobs after 1.5 years. I am just saying like in general that should I be worried that if i start with low pay will it affect me in the futurte

[near ocean]

Not really

Your only worry should be whether you can survive by yourself on this wage and chances are its going to be enough

[fringe sphinx]

^ and: No: the idea is, take the best opportunity available to you. -Any- experience will help you level up your salary for the next job.

[glossy elk]

Yeah i can survive

[glossy elk]

yeah you're right. I think my main goal rn would be to gather a lot of knowledge with that job

[gritty rivet]

I don't know your local laws but I would refuse as that is increasingly illegal. https://www.hrdive.com/news/salary-history-ban-states-list/516662/

[glossy elk]

i don't think this applies to me because i don't live in US

[buoyant seal]

if u a passionate about ML, then i guess AI/ML choice is better. Beware that AL/ML is very interconnected with data engineering though

hubt — 09/22/2022
i warn everyone that wants to be in AI/ML: you spend a huge amount of time on data validation, cleanup, and analysis. and generally a lot less time than you'd think on the actual AI/ML part. unless your company has very mature data management and data pipelines(very few companies do), expect to spend a lot more time on data engineering than AI/ML

So, probably makes sense to go through data engineering book people often recommend here.

I would have personally leaned a bit more towards data science may be if i was... in this direction of job roles, as it sounds to me a bit more stable. But this is only my personal preference and u have passion towards ML, that alone makes 5x multiplier to learning and work performance... So i would recommend going to AI/ML if that's your passion

[glossy elk]

yeah i love ML a lot and am genuinely intrested in it, and like you said it is a bit unstable rn but i am willing to take that risk. The only reason i don't wanna get into data science is because personally don't find it that interesting. Even though i'm just a fresher i know more about ml than anything in data science. I'll also take a look at the book which you recommended

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I didn’t read your original post: Personally, from your description alone, I’d take the in person job. Not just for salary- in person will help your career far more (more learning, networking, etc) if you’re just starting. Data science and ML are cousins, doing DS doesn’t take you away from doing ML… and I’d be concerned the ML job is button pushing or very basic

[opal zealot]

The report is from 2014. I believe python is popular no doubt but the report is old.

[fringe sphinx]

That’s the point: this has been true for a long time (nothing is replacing Python today). Top universities moved to Python well before its massive popularity now.

[glossy elk]

so my reason of not that taking that in person job is because it's very strict. It's from a big MNC which ik doesn't really have a lot of future because of how strict they are. Also the low paying job is from a startup and i think it's gonna give a lot of learning opportunities as someone who just started out in this whole machine learning industry

[opal zealot]

my concern was regarding dsa. if python is a well to go language for dsa n all. But I am convinced now I am going with python 🙌

[fringe sphinx]

Again, just my personal opinion: both startups and big tech/MNCs are experiences you should pursue in your first few jobs (that’s what I did). Both are important experiences that you’ll grow from.

But, I am just not a fan of remote work for entry level positions. It makes the learning process so much more difficult. But, perhaps I’m just a boomer.

[glossy elk]

I think i'm gonna go with the startup and save the big MNC for later. Right now I just wanna learn as much as I can

[glossy elk]

Lmao maybe. It's my first job so i honestly don't really know how big of a difference it's gonna make

[fringe sphinx]

Good luck, I don’t think there’s a wrong answer: the reality is, it comes down to the people, project and manager… and you have no good way of evaluating that before starting a job anyway.

[glossy elk]

yeah exactly so let's just see how things goes and thankyou for your advice

[charred spade]

When solving DSA problems on a technical interview, are you generally allowed to use standard library stuff, like deque or Counter from collections? Or are you meant to do everything with no imports whatsoever?

[digital fjord]

I wouldn't worry about it unless you are pulling a from sympy import is_prime for a "find prime numbers" problem. But even then, the interviewer would likely just ask you to rewrite it without the standard library thing if they were to not like it.

[peak halo]

you'd have to ask the interviewer. If an algorithm needs a FIFO structure with O(1) adds and removes to be efficient, but that isn't the actual point of the question, it would be unusual to make you implement a queue from scratch before you can start solving the actual problem

[marsh thistle]

This doesn't seem the right channel for this. Is this for a discord bot? perhaps #discord-bots would be better then

[silk jetty]

could use some advice

im consistently doing a good amount of code every day right now, however i could either A) wait until the end of the day, commit everything at once or B) do a bunch of small contributions over the day as i make progress with my code

ive been doing A for a long time but im wondering which actually looks better, A or B for a job applicant

[digital fjord]

Ideally, you choose when to commit in a way that ensures the commit makes sense - does one thing, can be reverted to check if the one thing broke anything.

[silk jetty]

im doing it by feature pretty much

i implement X thing, then several commits of debugging and improvements

[peak halo]

if you're making changes to an established code base, you want each commit to be "atomic". so you should be commiting throughout your programming session. you can push just once at the end of your session, though.

[silk jetty]

since im making changes to an established code base, will do that

been trying B for like two or three days, i can finally see how people are getting thousands of commits a year

[vapid jay]

Hey, after ~4 years as data analyst/data Engineer I applied to mid/senior position (they mention they can hire on one or other) my prev interviews were on junior and log time ago intern position, I have mainly exp in SQL and python, same as needed in offer, do you have any advices what should i expect or what to learn more now ?

[vapid jay]

is python used in softeng?

[harsh river]

yes, quite a lot.

[vapid jay]

what certification from freecodecamp can I get that'll help me get a softeng job?

I have experience with python

[harsh river]

certificates hold little to no weight when it comes to python, for a software engineer a college degree is the path of least resistance

[vapid jay]

I'm emphasizing help because I know I'll have to do much more than a certificate

but just something that'll get me in the right direction

[true harness]

none of the above

[fringe sphinx]

My usual speech is: there’s lots of entry points/positions in tech besides SWE. With only a cert, as said above, it’s hard (very) to land an entry SWE position. But, if you aim a little to the side, or get lucky and work your network to get your foot in the door somewhere, you can get into tech. But, the cert isn’t the thing… it’s competency and practice. That said: certs are helpful for some adjacent jobs (like support and qa)

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[undone glacier]

Hey, I'm sorry if this is a stupid question

I heard that openings for ML pipeline jobs are really abundant (like an order larger in quantity compared to data scientist jobs).

What's the catch here? Why is no one flocking to the massive number of pipeline positions despite a bad economy and supposed abundance of openings?

[white radish]

Hi, I was wondering how I could get different jobs using python, for the ones I heard are data analyst and that's it I guess for me?. If you can help that would mean a lot

[balmy spade]

Where did you hear this interesting tidbit about ML pipelines jobs? What are the numbers compared to other fields?

If you don't see a wave of applicants to a field that usually indicates the field isn't as popular or available.

[peak halo]

you should make a selfbot to say this

[balmy spade]

We could just make a tag and not break tos.

[peak halo]

I work in AI/ML professionally. I'm not really sure what an "ML pipeline job" is. I don't have any coworkers who make "ML pipelines" that don't have advanced degrees in AI/ML.

[undone glacier]

Basically the pipeline engineers, or the job that sets up what I assume is the CICD for ML or ml-infra

[undone glacier]

I don't know enough to be able to say I don't see a wave of applicants there 😔

[peak halo]

there definitely wouldn't be a person who's only in charge of CICD for ML infra.

Anyway, it sounds like you're talking about data engineering. My company doesn't have people who are specifically data engineers in that sense, but from what I understand, their job is to manage how any data taken in by the company (perhaps through their consumer products, perhaps through surveys, etc.) is transformed and stored in a format that is suitable for downstream ML use.

I'm not sure to what extent that's a self-contained occupation, or just an embodiment of considerations that any data-managing SWEs will need to have going forward.

(Like with "prompt engineers". I don't think there will ever be a day where "prompt engineering" will be a common occupation with specific training associated with it. But I think "coming up with good prompts for generative AIs to achieve x" might grow in importance for existing occupations.)

[smoky quest]

Maybe they are referring to ML engineer?

Either way, there is no shortage of applicants to these jobs

[peak halo]

it sounds like they're talking about something that is ML-adjacent without involving applied ML theory

[gusty cove]

With coding being so popular, to the point that there's everyone taking CS in universities even when they have no interest in the subject, the future for jobs seems oversaturated.

What's your take on this?
Is programming even a good career choice anymore?

[buoyant seal]

i have no fear of it being ever over saturated for several reasons

• people who don't have interest in programming often not able to get jobs after graduation, or raise above beginning level.
  • companies always need devs from Middle level and higher
  • people with no sufficient dedication / passion don't ever reach this level even if having CS degree.
• programming software is ever expanding universe. Than more software is written, then more developers are needed

[buoyant seal]

junior level is surely oversaturated though, this level is a mess with more people graduating CS
or people swarming from online courses.

• most of those people aren't able to solve even the most simpliest easiest algorithm task though (so technically they aren't real juniors)
  So mostly all this affects just costs to hire people (a lot of people to filter)
  besides that, i think no really impact will be on your own career as long as u got past junior level

[gusty cove]

whats the way up?
I wanna change domains.
I've only competed in hackathons and done game development at the AA stage, working for other studios

I wanna actually expand my expertise before my brain solidifies at 25

I wanna think better in code

[buoyant seal]

a way up is several things

1. Reading books moving you towards advanced level
2. Doing pet projects with languages and tech u wish to learn and practice
   (and also applying learned theory from books in order to trully understand it)

• u have to learn outside of work, in your own free time.

3. Having knowledge of those books and practice of pet projects, u will encounter more challenging work oppotrunities.

• challenging enough work opportinities that occupy you for 40+ hours will drive you further again

Start with The Clean Coder perhaps book
It teaches the necessary attitude to go forward

Then Code Complete by Mcconnel
It is all around stuff about programming, how to write cleaner code, and where to go next

Unit testing by Khorkov. Quite important book to weapnize yourself in writing industry level code
Khorikov teaching about theory, goals and why it is important, how to escape traps in unit testing.
Kent Beck teaches how to apply it at practice and necessary feeling how often to write working code between tests

Feel free to read eventually stuff like Clean Architecture, it teaches understanding to manipulate code at a more global scale of a single app. How to organize in the way that u will feel more comfortable to pile dozens and hundreds thousands of code lines.

All those books teach what to read next, so u should be covered as it is.
I will mention a necessity to learn preferably system design
and Refactoring by Martin Fowler

[buoyant seal]

it is important applying it at practice at work and pet projects. not used knowledge remains dead knowledge 😉
Learn preferably at least a single static typed language in order to grasp wielding architecture beyond regular possibilities of interpreted dynamic languages
that will help you to beind dynamic typed interpreted languages to your will beyond their regular capabilities as well

[gusty cove]

I see

[buoyant seal]

learning for programming goes smth like that, that's why important to practice

[gusty cove]

I do have professional experience working with TypeScript and C#, which are typed and static languages respectively

[buoyant seal]

great. then book like Unit testing and Clean Architecture will be able to open to you at wider range.
I tend to think without typing it is kind of problematic (very problematic) to organize code into concepts described in them properly

[gusty cove]

Oh I'm active in the development world. I build games and software for other studios. I'm not a novice, but I'm not quite at the top yet

[gusty cove]

typing is crucial everywhere I've worked lol
because without it, development halts cuz other developers take time to understand your code

[buoyant seal]

usually a middle level person is able to write code with 90%+ testing coverage. people in C# and javascript world tend to be having more trouble in this regard due to their ecosystems. As well as game development world could be having trouble to have unit testing properly.
check that you invested yourself throughly into this area then 😊
Manuplating more freely code architecture is also important for high unit testing coverage.

[gusty cove]

One more question, jobs don't usually ask code architecture questions, which is where I shine, the questions asked are mostly related to problem solving of real-life problems

Is there something I can do to bring light to my strengths?

[buoyant seal]

system design teaches how to approach real life problems and transform them into technical world.

• one of the steps is gathering requirements which is described in the recommended system design book but has its own book to be expanded further.

[gusty cove]

Thanks so much!

[undone glacier]

Yes, that is the term

Data engineer or ml engineer or pipeline engineer idk anymore

Its the one that supposedly has 10x the openings datasci does

[near ocean]

Source? I dont really see that many data eng ads

[lusty fractal]

Can anyone suggest any good websites to practice aptitude questions ?

[hallow skiff]

Hello Python devs,

I am currently in an interview process with an awesome company/product, tech lead seem nice and good at what he does - which does not use any of the known cloud services (AWS/AZURE/GOOGLE), just a local cloud company in that specific EU country.

I've been working in the industry for almost 10 years as a developer, and never came across a company who didn't use a known cloud service, (for me specifically AWS was always there) even if it was just a simple EC2 instance with everything on it. it seems as if it became a kind of a standard.

What would be your personal take on that?
How bad is it career wise? Does it matter at all?
I mean, I guess the tools are the same tools. just not expensive 😅 . I'm not afraid of unix. The only issue i think is maintenance when scaling i guess(?), + I can always practice AWS for myself, or even work on getting a certified diploma etc.

[undone glacier]

I don't have a source, it's anecdotal but from enough people who are in Datasci jobs/applying for Datasci jobs, that's why I'm asking here to check if it's true

[near ocean]

Hm i cant say i've noticed this tbh

[fringe sphinx]

I generally agree (also anecdotally) that there are more people in data engineering jobs than data science. Im a little biased (being in DE), but it relates to the idea that 80% of DS is really DE anyway (ie: data extraction, cleansing, enrichment, etc).

Some orgs have a clear formal split here (Netflix being a well known example with a clear DE org), and others mash things together. Hmm, maybe it’s not that it’s DE jobs but: people doing DE work (regardless of titles

[undone glacier]

basically there is more DE work than DS work, in a nutshell?

does DE at least pay well, compared to other cs crafts/or DS itself

[fringe sphinx]

Im talking more about DE skills than ‘jobs’. In terms of job postings, I don’t look at what people are hiring: I suspect you’ll see more job postings being labeled DS but are in actuality are mostly DE or just data analysis.

[gritty rivet]

It's a vague title so pay can vary widely, but generally yes. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/data-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,13.htm

[wanton birch]

Happy New Year people! Didn’t see you guys in a long time.

Update: I think I almost got a job. Contract pending 🤞

[hearty island]

gratz!!!!

[wanton birch]

Thx 😁

[vapid jay]

hello python

[analog patio]

Any computer students you holds a computer degree or something??

Anyone who owns it

Dm me

[crisp stream]

ask your question here

[near ocean]

What does that question mean

Computer science students wouldnt hold a computer science degree, kinda by definition

[analog patio]

Hello. I want roadmap of coding from 0 to MAANG ENGINEER level

Like roadmap which includes all about coding and things to expert level

More like bca + mca combination but yeah but full of computer roadmap

[crisp stream]

like billybobby said in the main channel, it varies by person to person

[fringe sphinx]

Where are you at: what country & level of education & programming experience?

[analog patio]

India 12th pass
Doing bca degree now

[fringe sphinx]

How's your programming? Have you learned a language?

[analog patio]

Python

But not good at it

I mean yeah no i guess

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, I don't know India education system, but: the key thing about becoming a SWE is - practice. You need to build projects: this will give you knowledge, experience & a portfolio to draw on when you start interviewing.

[analog patio]

Hmm

[fringe sphinx]

School gives you the basics. Small projects are how you become good. And larger (longer in duration and higher in complexity) are how you become great.

[analog sun]

FYI you cannot skip from graduating without experience to a senior level role in a company

[analog patio]

Bruh

[crisp stream]

there are no shortcuts short of nepotism

[analog patio]

Bro i will practice then I don't need experience if I have clear path

[near ocean]

Experience is part of the path my guy

[harsh river]

you will still need experience no matter the path lmfao

[proud glacier]

They simply won't hire you for senior roles fresh off a degree

[analog patio]

And why will big tech companies select me

If everyone is learning same thing

What unique things they want

[analog sun]

The path will include gaining experience, I am not sure why that is surprising news

[near ocean]

You want unique things but youre asking for a roadmap?

[harsh river]

having experience is unique in itself, lots of people dont.

[crisp stream]

big tech usually hires based on experience

[analog patio]

Of course they will if I know it

[proud glacier]

If they hired fresh grads for senior roles, what would "senior" even mean?

[analog patio]

Ye give roadmap first then other thing comes later

[vapid jay]

open ur company and give urself senior title

[near ocean]

Roadmaps arent unique
This is plain arrogance

[storm lantern]

When making projects should you try build from scratch or have someone help you along when you first start

[analog patio]

Senior means who is more experienced or knows well

I know well then I skip fresher and boom

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, your path is: Projects while finishing degree. By last year of college, you should be looking for larger or complex projects (contributing to OSS is one example). Then, you need to land an entry level position: you'll probably need to study leetcode/DSA to land a good position. After the entry level position, then re-evaluate your next steps.

[pine sleet]

i gave you one #python-discussion message

[safe coral]

Sleep with the company ceo and he will give you a senior role tho @pine sleet

[crisp stream]

let's stop the shitposting please

[safe coral]

I know someone who got a job like that… Not kidding

[proud glacier]

And how do you get "experienced" without working junior roles first? I guess create an open source project that gets huge on a similar scale to the Linux kernel, then maybe they'll consider you.

[safe coral]

It’s a sad world we live in 😔

[fringe sphinx]

I got my first manager job at around 27 years old. That was quite young for big tech (HR wouldn't even want to give me the title of my predecessor)

[digital fjord]

You can't just learn your way to senior level, you have to have actually applied your knowledge, which is easiest done in a company as a junior employee.

[kindred oyster]

when companies screen CVs , they will throw you out in the very initial screening by seeing that you have no experience and applied for a senior position

[analog patio]

See bro i understood that

I need to learn coding languages

Like Java and blah blah

But I want roadmap because i am confused

Discrete maths, data structures and data base management
What is this all

I thought learning coding languages was enough

Like i wanna atleast visually understand what's happening and want roadmap

[fringe sphinx]

But you're in college right? Or am I misunderstanding what a BCA is?

[kindred oyster]

coding language is just a way to talk to computer

you still have to know what to say to it , to make it do what you want

[analog patio]

Computer degree

[fringe sphinx]

Like a US bachelors?

[proud glacier]

And you're expecting to get hired at senior level with this level of knowledge?

[proud glacier]

A BCA is a shorter degree than a full bachelors in CS. It doesn't have the same prestige or scope.

[kindred oyster]

hate to break it to you but these companies like BTech candidates more tha BCA candidates

[analog patio]

Ye i think bca is in us also

And if you already did degree

Then why don't you share your syllabus to me of your college

[kindred oyster]

and even more MTech candidates
which you bet will be applying as well

[crisp stream]

most senior engineer roles also aren't about coding 100% of the time

[analog patio]

That's why I wanna do something so i can stand out and they hire me ..

[pine sleet]

you need to learn a lot more than what's just taught in university

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, so here's the thing: 1. You don't need to "learn languages", you need to practice writing code. Acquiring languages isn't as important as being able to solve complex problems. Focus on projects: that's what I do when hiring.

[harsh river]

https://www.rit.edu/study/computer-science-bs#curriculum

[digital fjord]

I know senior devs who don't really code.

[kindred oyster]

they will at the very most consider you for a fresher role
never for a senior role

[proud glacier]

Nearly every university publishes its curriculum online. Some even upload their course materials online, like MIT.

[pine sleet]

yeah, i'd assume coding is a pretty small part of being a senior dev

[analog patio]

See bro i understood that

I need to practice coding languages

Like Java and blah blah

But I want roadmap because i am confused

Discrete maths, data structures and data base management
What is this all

I thought learning coding languages was enough

Like i wanna atleast visually understand what's happening and want roadmap

[fringe sphinx]

Discrete, etc, are all covered in a US bachelor of computer science program. They're somewhat what we expect most candidates to know. DSA for sure: most companies include leetcode/DSA questions in their hiring screens.

[proud glacier]

Why do you want a senior role specifically anyway? Junior roles at good companies pay very well too.

[kindred oyster]

why are you sooooooooooooo fixated on the roadmpa even if everyoen is trying to tell you that such a thing does not exist

there is no step by step procedure that you follow

[pine sleet]

if there was you wouldn't be asking for one 😄

[fringe sphinx]

The roadmap is: Start working on projects, and challenge yourself. Last year of school, practice some leetcode to prep for interviews. Stick with Python... unless you have a project that requires a different language (ie: you'll probably need javascript for a web project).

[kindred oyster]

if you wanna hear some concepts , buzz words throw about along with some diagram

just go to youtube and there are 1000s of them , follow anything

given that you are starting from almost 0 , you can only go up

[fringe sphinx]

I think people are intimidated by "projects".. they want classes, topics to learn, etc... not: "you have to work"

[safe coral]

Even for DS positions? I don’t think they ask leetcode for DS positions @fringe sphinx

[jaunty steppe]

Projects show that you do not only posses the knowledge, you know how to apply it.

[analog patio]

What else..

[crisp stream]

I'm not sure the original asker is looking for DS roles specifically

start with that

[analog patio]

What is this discrete maths and extra
Things

I thought practice coding languages

Was enough

[safe coral]

Oh I was just wondering @crisp stream

[crisp stream]

just knowing a language will only get you so far

[pine sleet]

being a developer is a lot more than just knowing coding languages. learning those are relatively easy

[fringe sphinx]

You need a degree. Discrete math is part of computer science degrees, as is other topics.

[crisp stream]

?

[jaunty steppe]

If you go to college it will focus on learning programming concepts rather than languages.

[fringe sphinx]

Software engineers aren't merely programmers (button pushers, is what I'm saying)

[kindred oyster]

it is stuff you need to know if you are gonna work in field like data science

if you want to go in webdev or smth , you probably dont need discrete maths

and learning only language is never enough

[safe coral]

Wondering if leetcode was required for DS positions @crisp stream

[crisp stream]

I think not

DE, probably

[kindred oyster]

prob not , as long as you can demonstrate your skills in other ways

[fringe sphinx]

I think not, too... but it's not what I hire or do, so 🤷

[digital fjord]

https://teachyourselfcs.com/ this shows the bare basics of "not just projects" that are expected in various fields. In college, you will go over these topics (and some others) over the course of a degree.

[safe coral]

What area do you wanna specialize in? @analog patio

[digital fjord]

But well, you do need to actually have projects, and frankly, I know very few people who have the patience to actually learn from several fat textbooks in their free time.

[safe coral]

Like do you wanna be a software engineer? AI engineer, Machine Learning Engineer?

[analog patio]

I thought practice coding languages is enough
Now what extra part is there in computer science

[proud glacier]

Why do you just repeat questions that have already been answered?

[safe coral]

For example if you wanna do ML and AI, you shouldn’t study computer science @analog patio

[analog patio]

Ai because I think it pays the highest?

[safe coral]

Then you need to study Data Science

[crisp stream]

why not

[safe coral]

Computer Science programs don’t really focus on AI or ML

[analog patio]

I think this is the full roadmap of it
I guess

[digital fjord]

It is quite common to have a CS bachelor's, then specialize at AI only at masters

[proud glacier]

You don't see why you need to learn anything outside "just languages", but you want a senior AI role directly. That's just not going to happen.

[analog patio]

Doesn't it pays highest?

[fringe sphinx]

I've answered this several times. Coding is not enough.

[safe coral]

Yeah but they suffer a lot due to lack of statistics background @digital fjord

[harsh river]

that's not directly related to a CS degree

[digital fjord]

This is the baseline level just about everyone with a CS bachelor's degree has.

[analog patio]

Then what about rest

[safe coral]

CS degrees don’t focus on statistics tho

[fringe sphinx]

Degree + Practice is what an undergrad needs to do to prepare for a SWE job.

[safe coral]

He wants AI @fringe sphinx not SWE

[pine sleet]

build up your problem solving skills. also work on your soft skills, don't underestimate those

[analog patio]

Hmm

[digital fjord]

The rest depends heavily on your domain and interests, which a CS bachelor's gives you the perspective to correctly determine.

[fringe sphinx]

Where did OP say this?

[analog patio]

Yeah i know that..hmm

[safe coral]

Here @fringe sphinx

[analog patio]

You mean rest is all about specialisation

[digital fjord]

Yes, specializing is key if you want to be competent.

[safe coral]

Make sure you are good at math and stats for AI @analog patio

[fringe sphinx]

All OP is saying is they want a high paying job.

[analog patio]

Oh so that much is the full computer roadmap then comes specialisation and it's roadmap.
Hmm

[harsh river]

that does not change anything, a SWE is still very well positioned to get a job in an AI related field

[safe coral]

Everyone wants a high paying job upon graduating but that’s simply not possible

[kindred oyster]

without gaining the experience for it*

[fringe sphinx]

I don't really think that's what they mean. They just want to optimize the outcome, I think.

[safe coral]

No one gets a 100K job upon graduation

[pine sleet]

plenty do

[digital fjord]

Another important thing to keep in mind is that roadmap sort of implies it's a series of steps. Learn X, then learn Y, then Z.
This is not accurate, you will want to learn things largely in parallel, with some exceptions (can't learn calc2 without calc1)

[analog patio]

Swe means

[fringe sphinx]

That's not quite true.

[safe coral]

Unless you are a nurse than you do @pine sleet

[pine sleet]

nah

[kindred oyster]

i mean they have been pretty persistant that they want to go straight from graduateion to a senior position

which a company wont agree to

[harsh river]

SWE = Software engineer

[digital fjord]

Plenty of people get fat offers straight outta school

[crisp stream]

speaking in absolutes isn't helpful

[analog patio]

I saw a person getting at google after graduation

[fringe sphinx]

Many CS grads hit 100 (plus or minus)

[safe coral]

I haven’t @fringe sphinx

[pine sleet]

it's even more common in HCOL areas

[white relic]

... in HCOL areas

[safe coral]

I have 4 degrees and I made 40K @fringe sphinx

[jaunty steppe]

Do you live in a high cost of living area in the states/

[safe coral]

You can’t generalize

[fringe sphinx]

My entry job several decades ago was 65k.

[crisp stream]

"no one makes 100k" is a generalization

[kindred oyster]

40k what ? USD ?

[safe coral]

Yes Philadelphia @jaunty steppe

Yup with 4 degrees @kindred oyster

[pine sleet]

the # of degrees you have has nothing to do with it

[analog patio]

What type degree

[digital fjord]

I know several people who got put in the highest tax bracket directly out of college.

[kindred oyster]

given your high education and current experience , a switch might suit you

[safe coral]

I studied Computational Linguistics, Data Science, Cybersecurity and Spanish @analog patio

[true harness]

that is anecdotal evidence

[digital fjord]

Already did the networking with big corpos, and just got that offer

So it is possible

[analog patio]

See companies or people say strength and weakness

Does strength and weakness really exist

Can you give an example of this??

[safe coral]

Possible doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen tho

[fringe sphinx]

What do you mean?

[digital fjord]

Just difficult, mostly luck based, with some hard work and talent.

[safe coral]

It’s luck not hard work at all

[analog patio]

Then what you lacked in your learning that you won't end up getting high paying job

[fringe sphinx]

You said "No one gets...". We were just objecting to that.. not saying the inverse.

[digital fjord]

You need hard work to be able to benefit from luck

[safe coral]

Nothing @analog patio I worked hard and graduated with honors

[white relic]

No one gets a 100K job upon graduation
this is what people were responding to. Many people do get 100k jobs upon graduation, particularly in HCOL areas

[true harness]

it's not just possible, it's probable, and in certain areas, highly likely

[analog patio]

Humans strength and weakness

[fringe sphinx]

What about them? Not sure I understand the question.

[analog patio]

Bruh then why aren't you able to get a good job

I am confusrd

[safe coral]

Because my race and age

[kindred oyster]

the first step towards your goal would be starting to worry about technical skills first

[pine sleet]

[analog patio]

Does it really exist

Can you give an example?

[pine sleet]

pretty sure race at least is a protected class

[safe coral]

Racism and agism is a big issue @analog patio

[analog patio]

Age??And race

Wdym

[safe coral]

I’m 35 and Turkish

[analog patio]

White?

[safe coral]

Middle Eastern

[analog sun]

I think this is distracting the main discourse now

[analog patio]

Then what is the issue

I saw old people working in big tech companies

Already

[kindred oyster]

the companies who are looking for actual talent wont care thatt much about it anyway

[fringe sphinx]

Are you asking whether some people have strengths and weaknesses? Some people are very agile thinkers... ever watch a comedian do crowd works and react in real-time to human interaction? Other people are very analytical thinkers... capable of planning big picture complex solutions to difficult problems.

I dunno, there's lots of strengths and weaknesses. Everyone is good (or enjoys) at different things.

[analog sun]

Yes, people have strengths and weaknesses. Think about things you are good and bad at and that would be an example

[safe coral]

You would think so @kindred oyster Comcast and Campbell’s Soup Company said I was too old

For an entry level job

[analog patio]

I find most of the humans same

I didn't find anyone or anything different in people

Expect like some sing and some doesnt

[kindred oyster]

i mean , there are a lot of comanies
judging the entire industry based on just 2 companies seems a bit too much to me

theres alot of variables at play here

[digital fjord]

Yeah, this turns out to just be not true. Biases are very real, even in highly competitive fields where it costs money to be biased, notably sports.

[kindred oyster]

i had all kinds of people at college , i dont recall anyone facing it

[digital fjord]

Well, it is notable in sports because the data in sports is there to prove the biases.

[safe coral]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/19/nearly-20percent-of-job-candidates-have-changed-their-names-on-resumes-because-of-discrimination-concerns.html @kindred oyster

[digital fjord]

Harder to do in SWE where those kinds of metrics just kinda aren't real.

[safe coral]

I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna change my age to 25

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I greatly disagree. I've hired a lot of people, and every person is very unique: their uniqueness really shapes their work, and my job as a manager is to find the best way to use their strengths.

[true harness]

you mean my code velocity stats aren't actually real? D:

[safe coral]

As you see discrimination is huge in job hiring @kindred oyster

[digital fjord]

I am sure they mean something and someone will draw some conclusion on them which may even happen be accurate.

[vapid jay]

anyone intrested in creating their own startups?

[safe coral]

The 2023 edition of Greenhouse's annual Candidate Interview Experience Report surveyed 1,200 US-based job candidates – 50% of respondents being from historically underrepresented groups – and revealed that over one-third of candidates (34%) have experienced discriminatory interview questions, most commonly focused on their age, race or gender. @kindred oyster

[analog patio]

But i find every student same in my class and everything

Idk i am confused

Lol

[safe coral]

I did have this issue in every interview I had

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, but have you worked on complex projects with them?

[safe coral]

They asked my age and my background

[analog patio]

Nope

[true harness]

you must have been mistaken. did they explicitly ask for your age?

[safe coral]

Yes

[kindred oyster]

🤔
well ig it exists more than i thought
but i still think that as long as you have solid skills , you will get hired
sure , you may have to do more effort than other people , but its not like it wont happen

[safe coral]

They said how old are you why did you go back to college @true harness

[turbid bobcat]

I was asked once too

[fringe sphinx]

That's where you'll see the differences. You'll see some of them are just terrible... they won't get their work done, or they won't understand things like you do, etc. You'll also see some of them are brilliant... just coming up with creative solutions. You'll find others are very well organized, and others need constant direction... etc.

[vapid jay]

can u hire me?

[true harness]

the only age related question that is even remotely appropriate is, "are you over 18"

[safe coral]

So unless you are white or young no job for you in the US @turbid bobcat

[near ocean]

Thats not true

[analog patio]

It's just because some already know this things early
And some are new to it

Simple as that

[fringe sphinx]

lol, no 🙂

[crisp stream]

again, speaking in absolutes does no one any good

[near ocean]

You were saying just yesterday how asians are more employed than whites lol

[true harness]

no one?

[turbid bobcat]

was never asked during interviews to foreign companies, my worst interview experiences are from my own country

[safe coral]

Same here my own country does it @turbid bobcat

[vapid jay]

its cuz im 40

[analog sun]

I think we are getting off topic here

[safe coral]

It’s not off topic at all

[pine sleet]

#career-advice message

[safe coral]

This is career discussion

[vapid jay]

it is job related lol what

[safe coral]

I’m discussing racism and agism in job hiring

[vapid jay]

not saying i agree with him

[analog sun]

It seems to be just circling around discrimination, but not addressing it

[vapid jay]

he is?

[true harness]

that is unfortunate

[analog sun]

Yes discrimination exists, but that does not mean it is impossible to be hired

[fringe sphinx]

Just consider what I said when you start working with them on projects.

[safe coral]

It’s very hard @analog sun

[vapid jay]

yes i agree with u

[safe coral]

So hard that you have to lie about your age and background @analog sun

[vapid jay]

maybe, improve your resume apply to ALLLL jobs? contact hirirng managers from linkedin

[turbid bobcat]

for what it's worth I was never asked about it during interviews for US, UK or German companies

[pine sleet]

i doubt most places discriminate based on age and race. some might, but not most/all as you imply

[safe coral]

Did you see the research I posted @pine sleet

[digital fjord]

To be fair, all the big corpo out of college peeps I know were young and white.

[analog sun]

I do not think this is good advice to follow

[pine sleet]

haven't read it. might be biased

[turbid bobcat]

and I'm pretty young so idk y I was asked, I was actually offended tbh >.>

[safe coral]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/19/nearly-20percent-of-job-candidates-have-changed-their-names-on-resumes-because-of-discrimination-concerns.html

[vapid jay]

but small startups still hire for 100k and up

never understood the faang or big corp appeal

[safe coral]

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews

[vapid jay]

@safe coral bruh u said u are turkish? u need to gaslight hr women to hire u and threaten them u will go public about discrimination and islamophobia and call them racist. HUGE WIN

[analog sun]

This is not appropriate at all.

[fringe sphinx]

Let's not start shitposting... that's clearly too far.

[vapid jay]

??? NO

[analog patio]

Haa

Atleast I am handsome so I get more interviews

Hahahahaaa

[safe coral]

See even a professor recommends whitening your resume to get a job @pine sleet

[digital fjord]

Startups are very temporary, and really only pay off if the stock you get ends up valuable.

[analog patio]

😩

I think companies will soon start putting

Girls will get more interviews

[pine sleet]

that doesn't mean much

[safe coral]

https://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/insightshub/talent-management-inclusion/discrimination-in-hiring

[vapid jay]

sooo??? apply to another start up lol

[analog sun]

Yes, discrimination exists. How does this further the conversation in regards to #career-advice ?

[vapid jay]

people be job hopping anyways

[digital fjord]

With corpos, you can generally leave on your own time, rather than oh nyo we ran out of money and your stock is worthless.

[analog patio]

Also what is this unix shell programming

And virtual programming??

[safe coral]

My name is associated with black people so they probably ignore my resume @pine sleet

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno... public corps are also highly unstable (esp lately). Not sure anything is inherently stable.

[jaunty steppe]

bash scripts

[safe coral]

https://fortune.com/2023/09/24/affirmative-action-race-discrimination-hiring-black-sounding-names-study/amp/

[pine sleet]

their loss, your gain. you wouldn't want to work there anyway. just apply somewhere else that isn't racist

[vapid jay]

not convinced, some companies are meant to be small if its very niche , they are stable small startup

[fringe sphinx]

See https://missing.csail.mit.edu/2020/shell-tools/ for shell.

[true harness]

why assume it's due to your name, when it could be that your resume isn't up to par? focus on things you can improve, rather than things that can't

[digital fjord]

Yeah, layoffs have gotten worse lately. Still more stable than startups I would think, and pay better than the most stable job of them all, the government jobs.

[safe coral]

with the release of a study that found employers seeing identical resumes were 50% more likely to call back an applicant with stereotypical white names like Emily or Greg versus applicants with names like Jamal or Lakish @true harness

[fringe sphinx]

Large private companies are probably where it's at. I'm told that Bloomberg has never had layoffs (for instance), not sure if it's true.

[safe coral]

We found that the names of workers perceived as Black, such as Shanice or Terell, were more likely to elicit negative presumptions, such as being less educated, productive, trustworthy and reliable, than people with either white-sounding names, such as Melanie or Adam, or racially ambiguous names, such as Krystal or Jackson. @true harness

[vapid jay]

Also what about working for public school?

[kindred oyster]

so you are saying that people who share the same country / age as you will never work at a good position in tech ?

[vapid jay]

expecially if u love ur community "GO BULLS"

[pine sleet]

that doesn't mean it wasn't because of your resume, though

[safe coral]

I’m talking about minorities like me @kindred oyster

[digital fjord]

I would argue that a startup is not a small company that has existed for years by now. Of course, you can also work for those (though I am not sure job hopping will work as well with niche companies like that), but I wouldn't expect them to have the budget of a startup fresh from a funding round.

[vapid jay]

obvi for the district lol so u get higher pay

[safe coral]

My resume was pretty good tbh. I showed it to my teacher @pine sleet

[pine sleet]

that doesn't prove that it's good

[safe coral]

Also shared it here many times. Ask @fringe sphinx

[near ocean]

Academics are not exactly caught up with the goings on of an industry

[digital fjord]

The public sector will always pay less than a private company.

[safe coral]

BillyBobby said my resume was good

[pine sleet]

also weren't you saying you falsified a lot of your resume? that might have something to do with it

[near ocean]

Yea lying bad

[vapid jay]

im just sayiing if u work small startups u can then move big corps because ur resume would better and u would have experience

[kindred oyster]

minority as in ? in name ? age ? country ? or all combined ?

[safe coral]

No I didn’t falsify it was a tantrum

All combined @kindred oyster

Let me show you my resume

[vapid jay]

yeah ik but u can still make 6fig and they are growth positive ( u get promoted the longer u stay). like our receptionist in school got promoted into data manager and assitant principal to interim principal

[kindred oyster]

and you are absolute certain that you had your best CV possible , with as competent achievements and skills as your competitiors
and the decision to reject you was heavily based on your name, age ???
how do we verify this ?

[digital fjord]

You can do that in any direction. I am not saying you should avoid startups, but I don't think they are inherently superior to corporate.

[digital fjord]

It's not at all implausible.

[vapid jay]

if they hire you, you should...

[digital fjord]

Yeah, public sector jobs will almost never fire anyone and have excellent benefits, which does make them worthy of consideration.

[kindred oyster]

true
but what i think is tech companies really give comparitively less thought to this stuff as long as you put 110% in all other stuff

[true harness]

yes, discrimination does exist. but there's nothing to improve if you simply conclude that it was due to factors you can't change

[digital fjord]

Do you have any evidence for this? There is clear proof that these biases are real.

[vapid jay]

do u have any projects

[kindred oyster]

not tangible proof that i can produce here , no
i have heard it from our seniors and saw with my college mates , thats what i am basing it on

[safe coral]

I do @vapid jay

[fringe sphinx]

Separate from Jiggly's comments on discrimination, there are other factors that may be at play: Location, Experience, Unusual (resume doesn't fit the "usual" profile), Concerns over Employment/Sponsorship Status (foreign names or education raise employability questions), etc. In DS, I just don't know enough about the profile that people hire for.

[safe coral]

Foreign names

There we go! Hahaha

[analog sun]

Yes, we all agree that discrimination does exist

[vapid jay]

maybe try doing it support job they promote alot and eventually u will be making 6figs

[fringe sphinx]

In this case, it's not the foreign name itself... it raises the "Are they authorized to work in the US?" question.

[safe coral]

I am

[fringe sphinx]

I'm saying: Is that clear from the resume?

[vapid jay]

ur name is beautiful, and if they are honestly discrimnating thats such an evil thing to do

[safe coral]

I’m US citizen. How would I work for the US companies then?

[vapid jay]

like help desk jobs and u can work 2 jobs

[true harness]

you don't need to be a US citizen to work for US companies

[fringe sphinx]

Also, I wasn't talking about you, I'm talking in the abstract... if I see a foreign name + foreign education, it raises a work authorization question.

[vapid jay]

yah work auth and ssn

[safe coral]

Do I need to say in my resume I’m US citizen??

[white relic]

it wouldn't be a bad idea.

[true harness]

i have seen a blurb like, "authorized to work for all companies in the US"

[safe coral]

That’s racism to begin with. Why do you care about that

[pine sleet]

there's usually a field when you apply where it says "do you need a sponsorship now/in the future" or something along those lines

[vapid jay]

yes, im not a citizen i used to work at a smoothe place

[true harness]

there's no race involved. work authorization is a genuine question

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't think so, given your most recent work experience... but, as trentj said, wouldn't hurt. Most people say something like: "authorized to work in the US without sponsorship"

[safe coral]

Yeah they already ask that in job screening. Why put that in resume

[vapid jay]

and i had taxes and all that legal stuff

[safe coral]

That is already asked in job screenings

Before you can submit your application

[vapid jay]

get an help desk job

[fringe sphinx]

You're probably fine then. I'm just saying why foreign names can be a factor. Altho, I do see people push resumes and lie about that.

[vapid jay]

and work 2 jobs, if ur good u get promoted or u can just job hop after gaining 6 months experience

[safe coral]

I don’t think I wanna do that. I’d rather do something better considering my masters in Comp Science starts in 3 weeks @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

im saying money wise, ur over qualified for the role and u will end up with 6figs in no time

[safe coral]

If I don’t get hired after my masters degree

[vapid jay]

thats what i personally would do

[safe coral]

I will leave the country and move to Canada hahahahaha

Or Europe tbh

[vapid jay]

L canada is soo mid plus 6 fig in canada is like 50k in the reality because of the cost of living

[vapid jay]

are u applying to remote jobs ??

[safe coral]

Yup

[white relic]

if you think racial and age discrimination is only a thing in the US, you might be disappointed when you move to other countries.

[true harness]

i've heard stories from hiring managers of people applying to jobs that say "US Citizen only", but when they get to the interview it's discovered they aren't a citizen. putting it on the resume may help solidify that

[safe coral]

There are more Turkish people living in Europe so at least job seekers know about them @white relic

[vapid jay]

yes exactly and canada is small so less oppurtunites, i agree that racism is real i am black and i see it daily.

[safe coral]

Especially in Germany and England and Holland

[vapid jay]

us to canada ? might as well go the uk

uk has lots of minorities so even if they are racist they have no choice

[safe coral]

I mean with the upcoming elections, immigrants future is on hinge in the US

[glass jay]

This doesn’t really got to do w careers but how did u learn python

[crisp stream]

#python-discussion is a better place for this question

[vapid jay]

just start coding and focus on understanding the theory of programming

and problem solving

[glass jay]

Like doing projects cuz one of my friends recommended doing that

[safe coral]

I mean this is a bit politics but if Trump becomes president we immigrants can panic about our future here @glass jay

[white relic]

I spent most of my career thus far in defense work so maybe I'm a little predisposed here, but I would put US Citizen on there if you got it. "authorized to work..." leaves open loopholes like "technically, I'm authorized to work here for the next four months, after which my visa will suddenly expire and you'll have to decide between sponsoring me and finding/training a new employee" (I've heard of people that had to deal with this, but no idea how common it is)

[vapid jay]

yes

[safe coral]

Oops I meant to tag @vapid jay

[glass jay]

Yo thanks 🙏

[vapid jay]

umm possibly

[fringe sphinx]

Jiggly, let's not do this here.

[vapid jay]

but duuudee listen if u really about that paper just apply for jobs ur overqualified for money cus u deserve it degrees arent cheep , and for the main time and keeping applying for the job u want and quit the job your overqualfied for

thats justme tho

[safe coral]

I got rejected from some jobs for being overqualified too

[vapid jay]

have u tried IT?

[safe coral]

Yup

😭 One interviewer was like wow you are overqualified for this position. Why did you apply for this? What do you see yourself doing in 5 years

I said I wanna be a data scientist lol

[true harness]

so you said you wanted to leave the company ?

[safe coral]

I mean do I wanna do IT for the rest of my life?

[vapid jay]

try again and this time only put ur cyber security degree and other skills that cater to that specific field

[vapid jay]

just do it for the main time

[safe coral]

I already switched careers cuz I hated my previous career

That would be just weird going into a career that I wouldn’t enjoy

[true harness]

they didn't reject because you were overqualified, they rejected because you said you didn't want to work there

[safe coral]

Most IT jobs now want you to have certifications @vapid jay

I said I wanted to be a data scientist in the future @true harness

I was honest. Should I have said I wanna be an IT specialist?! 😂

Also I don’t know anything about IT…

[vapid jay]

yes u do

ALL programmers do and u litterly studied it in college

[turbid bobcat]

maybe do some mock interviews, practicing could be helpful

[vapid jay]

files, ram, gb, troubleshooting and if u don't its on youtube its easy

[turbid bobcat]

what is an IT specialist ? shouldn't you be going for soft dev/soft eng?

[true harness]

questions like these you can pretty much just say whatever. at least make it seem like you want to work at the company. but interviewers can detect bs

[crisp stream]

IT also includes basic hardware and networking

[vapid jay]

yes but its soo easy to learn

[turbid bobcat]

you know py, R, stats, and other kinds of advanced stuff, there's a lot you can apply for

[vapid jay]

yes he doesn't have to IT , Im just saying money wise and ease wise IT is clutch

[vapid jay]

all ur doing is memorizing tbh

[turbid bobcat]

my understanding is that software is the most in demand industry in the world

he should get a job easily in either profession I think

[vapid jay]

but he says has no sucesss in his main field so he should do the next best thing, till he gets his dream job

dude even me with no formal experience got an interview offer from an IT comp. but i was under 18

[near ocean]

They already have a job which they said is more relevant than IT work

[vapid jay]

???

[near ocean]

And multiple years of experience in that position, over 5
If they're not getting calls back then the problem is the resume

[vapid jay]

possibly

thats crazy swe companies or big-big-tech are tryhards bro they are ppl with only certs making close to 6figs in other tech industries,

[turbid bobcat]

I think resume writing skills and interviewing skills are crucial to getting a job, I'd reckon he just needs to practice

[vapid jay]

yes i agree

everything about swe data analyst jobs is rigorous

this exectly why im majoring in cybersecurity lmao , i still love programming tho

[river meadow]

Hi guys, i'm newbie in this programming market and i want a advice if it is a good idea to learn in codecademy. I think there is some careers paths with contacts later and some tools in codecademy that can help to get a job but i can be wrong and you guys will know what's the best. My goal is to become a data scientist.

[white relic]

I believe codecademy is a good quality resource, but note

1. While you may learn a lot from online courses, they are not a substitute for a degree or projects. In the open job market you will be competing with people who have both of those things. It's not easy doing the self-taught route and you should plan to do some impressive projects for your resume and also put in some open source contributions and even then you won't be getting the same quality or frequency of opportunities as someone who has a CS degree.
2. Data science in particular is a pretty academic field and harder to break into without at least a master's degree. Becoming a software engineer without a degree is tough, but achievable. Even if some people have succeeded, I don't think becoming a non-degreed data scientist is a sound career plan. You need a fallback option (which could be SWE) or a plan to go to university and get the academic credentials.

(disclaimer: I work in applied physics, not data science, not technically SWE either, take my opinion with the appropriate amount of salt)

[river meadow]

Thanks! This is gonna help me a lot.

[hybrid umbra]

how many hours should i spend progamming python

so that i can get an internship
during university.

[digital fjord]

Do as much as you find interesting. Interships are generally not rare during Uni, so if you have some experience and knowledge, you should be fine.

[hybrid umbra]

but what did you do

[fringe sphinx]

IMO, The important thing is that you are doing something you enjoy. Find a project that interests you, and put a few hours in each week. Don’t burn out, don’t grind, just chip away

[hybrid umbra]

i need pratical advice

[digital fjord]

Honestly my internship situation is mostly luck, I just happened upon the company that made the obscure open source tech I used for a project of mine and found interesting, making the interview process truly straightforward.

[fringe sphinx]

Practical advice is: start a project. Today. And finish it before the end of January.

Repeat.

!kindling if you need ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

What’s ‘wa chat’ mean?

[weary sage]

Whatsapp chat. sorry

[fringe sphinx]

And this seems very off topic for this channel (careers). Maybe ask in offtopic?

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[weary sage]

Hey trent.. Thanks for this.. im currently in for E.E degree and half done with that.. but find programming fascinating hoping i could make a career with that... learning python and all of that., and then i would see motivation from people who claimed to break into tech w/o a CS degree, I'm interested in data Analysis which kind of seems like a tough journey.. i dont want to waste much time further, what would you recommend to an E.E student to pick up with this programming stuffs... prefereably inline with python.. sorry for bad english

[smoky quest]

If your goal is to become a data scientist, why not switching major to something closer?

[dreamy urchin]

im 15, close to 16 and im just looking to see when i could start some kind of part time job with programming in python. I know that 15 is too young but im trying to save up money for the future (like uni) or just to fill in my extensive spare time that i spend in my room.

[upbeat lynx]

I am looking to get into QA automation and I see that Python and Java are the most popular languages used in that area of work. Right now I pretty much only know C++ and I have a light spring semester for college. Which one should I go for?

[smoky quest]

Whichever has the most openings in your area.
Some jobs will require java, some others python and some others something different.

[smoky quest]

You would probably have more ROI focusing on:

• Your grades so you can get into a good school
• Projects that are fun to you so you can learn and dive deeper
• Regular teenager job

[dreamy urchin]

👍 i do have great grades and a couple projects under my belt but I understand

[gritty rivet]

You can look at places like Upwork and Fiverr to see what kinds of freelance work people are paying for but it's extremely competitive and low paying so I agree with recursive_error that you're better off getting a normal high school job.

[vapid jay]

Hello, I would like to know how Python can be beneficial for a professional career.

[near ocean]

People pay you money to work in it?

[peak halo]

If you want to be a programmer: you can program in Python.

If you have any other job that involves using a computer a lot: you can work more efficiently by automating file manipulation, excel file creation, PDF merging/creating...

[ocean wagon]

Fellas, not sure if this would be right for this channel, but for freelancing, how much experience would you guys recommend before starting it, as not to disappoint customers?
Let’s say just for basic custom requests with a UI

[hollow garnet]

Hey evreyone im new on coding , i never coed in my life

[vapid jay]

guys can i have help in smth rq

[hollow garnet]

so any like tips , should i read books or watch vids or what? , and i should learn python to do what too

[fringe sphinx]

Hi, you should ask this in #python-discussion , that’s a general chat for Python topics

[ocean wagon]

This question would better fit the regular discussion channel

[hollow garnet]

oh yeah sorryyy

[vapid jay]

someone help me in this err.

[ocean wagon]

This wouldn’t be careers related :/

[harsh river]

please give #❓｜how-to-get-help a read.

[fringe sphinx]

I haven’t seen a huge market for freelancing… our usual advice is: prepare for an entry level SWE job to get some experience. Later you could go solo/independent, but there aren’t tons of freelance opportunities for novices.

[ocean wagon]

I mean something such as fiverr or a similar site, just for a small amount of money on the side

Not true in the industry freelancing

Eh, I suppose for those sites it’s just whenever you feel confident enough

[fringe sphinx]

What kind of projects do you see on fiverr? Like, right now I mean, not generally.

[ocean wagon]

discord bots, basic custom projects, etc, usually fairly low money jobs

[fringe sphinx]

I’d guess if it’s low money, then do it if you think you can do it easily. Just don’t get pulled in over your head into some project that’s way too much.

But, im just speaking without experience with this stuff. I’ve done independent consultant, not fiverr

[gritty rivet]

You're ready when you can convince someone that you can do x better then the people charging $3/hour to also do x but with dozens of positive reviews

You can see other people's profiles so you know exactly who you need to compete against. If you're not somehow more attractive then them, you will not get customers because you have zero reputation

[bright robin]

**If I sound like I kinda know what I'm talking about, I don't.
I am looking for help building an API or Program that can communicate with PubMed data. I would like to be able run a siri shortcut and type into a text field the type of medical research and data i am looking for and gather relevant articles - then summarizing all of them and reading that summary aloud to me.
By looking for help I technically mean you build it for me and I compensate you or we can collaborate so I can learn your process of thinking & I would compensate you for that & be willing to share project ideas from my plethora of abstract thinking storms.

I do want this to be a completely legal project so whatever needs to be done to make that happen

[balmy spade]

I would suggest seeking a forum that allows you to hire. It is not permitted here as per the #rules .

[analog patio]

Hello yesterday was nice talking

But I want one more help

Any computer degree
Student

Who can help

[crisp stream]

with what?

[analog patio]

Your degree?

[analog patio]

Actually I have two universities syllabus

So I want help to know which is better

[crisp stream]

asking your question directly like this is better

[analog patio]

Hmm

[crisp stream]

well? which syllabi are you comparing?

[analog patio]

Well but you have to be computer degree student in order to know which is better for it?

[smoky quest]

what if you are a CS degree teacher?
Or a practitioner in the industry?

[harsh river]

so how will a computer degree student be able to see the syllabus without you sharing it? we can't read minds your know

[analog patio]

Then also okay

[smoky quest]

nice!

[analog patio]

I can't send pdfs here

It wont allow

[harsh river]

where did you get the PDFs from?

[analog patio]

So you are cs degree teacher

[smoky quest]

nope

[crisp stream]

send a web link instead

[analog patio]

It's universities

I just wanna know which is better

[analog patio]

Not possible

It is only as pdf

[harsh river]

you downloaded the pdfs from somewhere, share the links you downloaded them from

[analog patio]

Idk someone give me and they downloaded from somewhere

Now I don't know from where + the person is offline

I can send it in dm

Wait photo is enough i guess

[harsh river]

they both look like solid syllabuses.

[analog patio]

Which is better bro

Only computer degree or experienced person can say

[harsh river]

they're both best.

[analog patio]

Bruh

[analog patio]

You didn't even see everything and just saying this

Like wow

[harsh river]

i did see both of them, i can also see that they're tailored to people from india as well.

[analog patio]

Bruh it has cryptography in one syllabus and other doesn't have

It has Unix shell programming,virtual programming and other doesn't have

So which is better

[kindred oyster]

bruh
you have been going on about this since yesterday

you have been told an insane number of times , that just picking a language and making projects with it should be your start
idk what you want to gain from having a roadmap if your first step is gonna be same anyway

[smoky quest]

Let's all be friendly and welcoming.
If something seems strange to you, then be curious. It will help prevent problems and miscommunication

[kindred oyster]

https://collegedunia.com/courses/bachelor-of-technology-btech-computer-science-and-engineering/syllabus

here ^
this is syllabus of BTECH CSE degree at IIT

you can follow this

[analog patio]

Bro someone already give me help that time

Now this is different question

[kindred oyster]

(for resources, you will find the video lectures from their professors on NPTEL)