career-advice

[bronze urchin]

Can't lose if you don't quit 😉

[verbal slate]

Looking for good telegram python devs please dm me

[harsh river]

this isn't a channel for recruiting / ad board.

[odd gorge]

what does the return function do😭

[safe coral]

returns the value

[odd gorge]

huh

[summer roost]

!cban 1183891668945088602 joined just to spam selling something in DMs

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @high geode permanently.

[harsh river]

ask in #python-discussion if you haven't already

[balmy flax]

At what amount of skill level do I become hireable , for a Jr. SDE. Like, I would like to know with an example resume

[balmy spade]

When you can demonstrate your skills are applicable to the job you are interviewing for. There is no measurable level that can be quoted.

[trim crypt]

[balmy flax]

But isn't there an acceptable threshold

[trim crypt]

Interviewer: Do you know ReactJS and Django Rest Framework?

How would you answer?

[balmy spade]

The threshold is going to vary from interview to interview. The best I've ever had it summarized is "When you can demonstrate your skills fit the role".

[balmy flax]

I'd show a project I'd made . That's the max I'd think of .

[chrome cedar]

I went into my interview doing pretty good and thinking I'd get a Level 4 position and somehow did so well that I got a level 5 offer
It depends on what the interview entails - the questions I got were easy for me because I was lucky that I had hands-on experience with what they were asking

[trim crypt]

If you have one, good. If you don't have one, what do you say to the Interviewer?

[vapid jay]

Remote jobs still is a thing?

[trim crypt]

yes 💯

[vapid jay]

I'm from Brazil and my goal today is find some remote job outside here

[balmy flax]

I'd say yes. I know them . That's all ;-;

[vapid jay]

There's is too much corruption and syndicates issues

[trim crypt]

Some interviewers may ask this:

What challenge have you faced in the past in your implementation with ReactJS and/or Django Rest Framework and what did you to solve it?

[gritty rivet]

Remote jobs are very much a thing, but international ones much less so.

[vapid jay]

I lost the timing when the pandemic come over

that was the time to get a remote job outside my country

[balmy flax]

For React I'd say I had slower load time so I implemented better caching , and for Django REST I'd say I got a lot of errors and didn't know what to do so I worked on handling errors

[balmy flax]

They're still there, but I think the pay is lesser than on-site

[trim crypt]

Not the best answer but its something for you to practice. You need to include an actual exercise of what the problem was and a bit more on how you solve it. They're looking for critical thinkers and problem solvers. But you get where I'm getting at. Its not about "how many years of experience coding a language". It's "how you solve a problem of different scales with the tools you learnt" that they care about.

[vapid jay]

indeed, but by comparing my country currency with dollar I could make as much as a doctor here

[balmy flax]

Well let me put it this way , for someone with a bachelor's degree , the person would have studied so and so subjects and courses . So that might form a baseline . I want to know a list of technologies that form that baseline .

Atleast not at an expert level , but just so I could learn them and add them to my resume .

[trim crypt]

If you care for paper certs, then get the certs from third parties. Like CCNA or AWS SysAdmin or RedHat Engineer Cert etc

[white relic]

In what sense do you call those "third parties"? What certificates would not be from third parties?

[summer roost]

you can look up what courses are involved in a computer science bachelor's degree pretty easily. I think you're mistaken in thinking that they relate to "technologies", though. Many of the most important courses are types of abstract mathematics (like graph theory, data structures and algorithms, discrete mathematics, statistics, etc)

[smoky quest]

you could check https://csed.acm.org/cs2023-beta/

[versed tusk]

I started using python 3 days ago and I had an issue I couldn’t fix I even asked here but I managed to do it on my phone and it’s 5:30 am and I’m quite proud so just dropping that here

Not yet optimised or fully bug free in the long run but just to prove it’d work

[summer roost]

this is the #career-advice channel...

[versed tusk]

Sorry idk where a general chat is

Doesnt it have to do with my learning progress and possibly career in coding? Or so I thought

[summer roost]

you can use an off-topic channel if you need to share images

!off-topic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[summer roost]

though we'd rather you use a pastebin and paste text instead of images, as a general rule.

!paste

[inner wren]

Pasting large amounts of code

If your code is too long to fit in a codeblock in Discord, you can paste your code here:
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/

After pasting your code, save it by clicking the Paste! button in the bottom left, or by pressing CTRL + S. After doing that, you will be navigated to the new paste's page. Copy the URL and post it here so others can see it.

[versed tusk]

My bad I’ll keep that in mind

[junior laurel]

What do you think of this roadmap?

[buoyant seal]

Very strange Web Development specialization being present in Computer Science roadmap.

• Also, i am strongly objecting against advertisements of MERN due to the problems it is propagating 😅 kind of worst stack, ever.

Same for pressence of DevOps.

• Extra objection against presence of Visual Studio and especially in DevOps section. This... piece of... software should not be in DevOps section at all. For a reason that all DevOps stuff must be Linux friendly, and Visual Studio is 30GB stuff which is Windows only.

• Data science, AI, ML section having description with redirection on youtube. With such description best to remove description or section, or remake description. Such advice is strongly not consistent with the rest of your sections

TLDR: in current form it looks like a map of Too many hats developer scratching every specialization in a tiny amount, with strong flavour towards Computer Science
TLDR2: this map is torn apart between being Computer Science roadmap and Choose Specialization map.

[haughty slate]

Looks like a nice roadmap to follow if youre undecided on what you want to do

but overall not specific enough for any one field? Though I can't be sure lol

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> ☝️

[dense elm]

When there's trouble you call Dee Double-U.

[buoyant seal]

!off offtopic channels are over there. This place is not for that.

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[summer roost]

!cban 1149370079381823600 racism

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @summer quiver permanently.

[haughty slate]

how useful IS having a portfolio site, does it have variable worth depending on the career you want to go into, how deep does a recruiter or something of the like ACTUALLY go into when checking a portfolio site, and all that stuff

If you were to also use it to track say your progress in learning to program, such as having basics programs you created that you learned from, all the way to ones that really show high technical skill, would it be better to separate the basic ones into instead say a blog that demonstrates your progress, and only display your best on your portfolio, in which case how many projects is too much for a portfolio site

[dense elm]

I would say showing what you're most proud of accomplishing.

I'm sure any employer is only looking to what is most relevant to what the skill they're looking for is. So there's some merit to showing your strongest work. They aren't into the "journey". Perhaps have that as your monetary side-venture. You could have that for another reason.

[buoyant seal]

It is more needed for yourself at some point of time
we are killing two birds with one stone here, by showing stuff we want to show, what we are most proud of and resume worthy content.

at some point of time u just can become needing to structure everything u have.
your own blog/resume site is excellent place for this.

[buoyant seal]

as for how much worthy it is for resume...

1. for frontenders it is common to have because they present visual stuff
2. for backend/devops and etc, it is not that needed in terms of showing off projects, because they can just present github/working project

• but at the same time it can be a nice place to write articles/thoughts, and this is kind of boost for your resume because u show your... mm knowledge in more ways
• it is kind of representative of your soft skills in addition to hard skills
• potential show off of your documentation writing skill

TLDR: it can be good to have resume/blog web site, if u actually do pet projects and writing articles

[woeful rune]

can i know what skill needed to get a job for backend? (sorry if my english bad)

[buoyant seal]

#web-development message
#web-development message
https://roadmap.sh/backend
u need to learn Core Software engineering subjects

• writing clean code
• writing unit tests
• preferably learning to gather requirements as first step of system design
• preferably learning manipulating code architecture freely for a single app at least
  • that will help to build unit testable architecture
    and Technology fluff around
• building rest apis with Django/Flask/FastAPI
• knowing raw SQL
• db engine usage like Postgresql (Optionally mariadb/mysql)
• knowing how to operate ORM like SQLALchemy+Alembic and Django
• knowing how to use Message Queue Celery
• knowing how to use Docker.
• knowing how to git (preferably CLI included)
• knowing user level of linux(CLI included) and having ability to raise your own backend at linux server at least in the most simple way
• bonus: Could be nice getting hang of strict mypy/pyright wielding if in python.
• usage of redis for caching is handy to know too. and knowing usage of nginx.
• bonus: your value will get increased if learning
  • elasticeasech
  • aws
  • kafka
  • web sockets

[woeful rune]

okey thx

[soft vine]

do any one knows how to create a ai that generate 1000 image by 1 prompt

[hidden bloom]

its way better to work with azure / kubernetes than like oracle erp right?

[dense mesa]

ERP is usually pretty boring but safe

[hidden bloom]

so ur saying integrations and http postman testing etc. isn't?

[hidden bloom]

surely it is cus no matter the tools, after development it will always be integrations next..? even if its not necessarily with kubernetes / azure devops etc. its moreso the ideology behind it

[verbal pond]

hello

[dense mesa]

I'm not saying anything about those

[soft vine]

do any one knows how to create a ai that generate 1000 image by 1 prompt

[cold karma]

its really hard to get testers just need to provide google play console with an email list

[fringe sphinx]

Advertisements and recruiting are not allowed on this server, please see the #rules. And, please read the channel description before posting.

[cold karma]

Doesn't fall under any of them categories

[fringe sphinx]

Certainly doesn't fall in this channel (asking peoples emails so you can get approved on google play console).

[cold karma]

no i need the emails so they can test it and provide feedback to google so they review the app and the feedback so i can get my app published

do you know where to ask for that

[fringe sphinx]

Same difference, you’re looking for testers / users for a product. I get it, we just don’t allow advertising, recruiting or anything like that on the server.

But if you disagree or want to discuss further, dm modmail plz

[gritty rivet]

Wrong channel maybe try #data-science-and-ml

[cold karma]

im not gonna waste more time arguing here imma look on diffrent servers

[violet magnet]

I need a TypeScript project. In my own personal projects, I just feel like TypeScript is very unnecessary and Ive never adopted it. I understand the appeal. It's just not something I ever needed, but many, many job applications ask for it.

Maybe now is a good time to consider, what type of project is the most appealing to people hiring. Maybe I should come up with something highly corporate, no custom CSS, use only Material or something.

I know people have said before that they dont care what the project is but what skills you use to make it. But there has to be a list of features that will make hiring people more interested,

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm maybe a backend server with typescript

[violet magnet]

Hrmm. I've never done anything but frontend with JS before. I would significantly rather do python for backend. But maybe it would open up more opportunities to try it.

[lean hawk]

Does anyone know how relevant Python is for backend software engineering?
It's my starter language but I don't see very many talking about Python in software engineering

[violet magnet]

I can only speak for the job listings I see, but they're virtually never going to ask for a "python backend engineer" they're going to ask for frameworks like django, flask, fastapi, etc

[lean hawk]

I haven't really gotten into frameworks yet

[turbid bobcat]

It's always good to push yourself. I think typescript is usually unnecessary, id rather type hint with JS docs, but can't hurt do something diff

[lean hawk]

Do you think I should?
Right now I'm still at Python loops but school takes up most of my energy

[turbid bobcat]

Python is the most used language in the world.

[lean hawk]

I know it's popular but I hardly see software engineers talk about it unless they're telling someone to start off with it

[violet magnet]

yeah but is it necessary to push yourself in a direction where you're learning something you already know how to do well in another language? I know eventually you have to use different technologies that you dont always get to pick. But idk.

[turbid bobcat]

This discord server is huge and I'd reckon a good percentage of people here also work in the software industry

We are all here to talk about py

[violet magnet]

The literal only reason I use JS is for user interface

[digital fjord]

it depends on your bubble a lot - python backends do exist, but even I mostly hear laravel and asp.net core in that context IRL.

[lean hawk]

I'll still master the basics since I heard it helps when learning a new language

I also like using it so far, it's basic than most I've seen

[vapid jay]

which career path to chose? I'm confused between cybersecurity and data science . Cybersecurity is exciting but data science pays more

[turbid bobcat]

I hear and read that python backend frameworks like Django are used by a good number of well known companies.

It's a good tool to have in your toolbox, but I'd recommend learning more than one language. I saw the creator of cpp recommend learning like, 10 languages to be a good soft eng. Let me see if I can grab the source

[lean hawk]

Interesting, I plan to learn Python, C# and C++
I feel like those languages will be useful

[turbid bobcat]

He said 5

https://youtu.be/5An1sNznblQ?si=K9E4pJVqkx1L6xjj

[vapid jay]

guys?

[turbid bobcat]

Doesn't cyber security pay super well ?

[vapid jay]

not as much as data science

[digital fjord]

You'll pad out the languages naturally, don't worry too much about overplanning.

[vapid jay]

i did some research, data science can make up to 300k to the highest but for cybersecurity the number is lower than 250k maybe

[lean hawk]

You definitely shouldn't pick something only because it pays more
You'll get burnt out extremely fast that way
But I also agree that Cyber security is exciting
But I don't think I'm personally built for that

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah, at some point it just gets easier to learn them. I recommend learning languages that teach you different ways of thinking. Writing assembly is v different from writing py, but writing py is a lot more similar o writing JS

[turbid bobcat]

It goes above that, anthropic pays 450k to their eng, as maximum I think

[lean hawk]

I've took AP CS about a year ago but I haven't really learned much, we've used code.org and mainly used the coding blocks

[vapid jay]

yeah i did thought of that too but you see the living cost in almost every country is increasing and i dont really think most people who are wealthy really doing their job because they like it (not all of them)

but maybe your right i should not pick something on money

[turbid bobcat]

If you hate a subject and you have a similar paid alternative that you are passionate about, I think that the one you are passionate about is better

[lean hawk]

I mean, you can compare the salary to your parents, my mother makes 80k a year
While software engineering internships pays 100k+

[vapid jay]

its not like i hate it i just think there would days when ill be saying im burnt out but for cybersecurity i dont think that gonna happen

[vapid jay]

got a point tbh

[turbid bobcat]

I bet you the top paid people in DS are extremely passionate about it, and part of why they got there is that their passion gets them through the worst of it

[vapid jay]

yeah otherwise they would have quite when things get hard

okay i've made my mind thanks for the help and advice

[turbid bobcat]

It may also be a good idea to speak with people who know you personally. It's an important decision and is v personal.

[lean hawk]

Have you looked into software engineering?
I find it really enjoyable and it pays a lot
Some of the top companies pays over a mil

[vapid jay]

yeah I did but seem like everyone is into software engineering now a days and I believe im more of a analyst than a builder

[lean hawk]

Oh alright

[turbid bobcat]

There's also always the possibility of doing both

[vapid jay]

i dont really have someone who's into programming or has studied CSE before

[lean hawk]

So yeah, basically go for what you like the most, and you'll be fine with some dedication

[vapid jay]

there is?

[turbid bobcat]

I like building stuff and I like doing ML, so I'm an ML Eng. I build backend applications to serve models that I've trained

[vapid jay]

ohhh didnt thought of Ml before thanks for mentioning

[vapid jay]

yeah your right

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah and it can almost be an unfair advantage if you manage to get really good at that intersection of two fields

[vapid jay]

all i knew about ML that its about Ai and model i dont know much whats the interesting part about it? Like specifically for you

[lean hawk]

ML is machine learning right?

[vapid jay]

yes

[lean hawk]

I wonder if I'll get into that as a side project

[turbid bobcat]

That's a good question, I like the math, I like to code it, and it's always about making the computer do really cool tricks.

And it's fascinating to see how sometimes analogues to biology arise out of nowhere, other times it works super differently. There's also a lot of philosophy to be engaged.

[lean hawk]

There's so many things I want to do as a side project/hobby but that's going to be years into the future once I get the salary I want and my job is stable

[vapid jay]

ML isnt something you can just have as a side hobby theres a lot of interdisciplinary fields you have to learn

[vapid jay]

for me math is okay and i dont hate it but like data ,managing it , gathering information , than doing predictions for the market where data science comes in mind but cyber security is interesting since about some sort of crimes and protacting but now that you've mentioned it ill definately look into it

[lean hawk]

I meant more like working with AI to make whatever I'm making better

[dense mesa]

You don't need to learn everything in depth to use ml

[hearty island]

massive interview tomorrow

[brazen island]

As someone that works in ML/AI, I don't think it's helpful to gatekeep the domain. Now more than ever it's really fit for software engineers to use pretrained models without being ML experts themselves 👍

[near ocean]

Why is it fit to use pretrained models?

[peak halo]

if someone already created a model that does what you need, you don't need to understand backpropagation and performance metrics to be able to use it.

[near ocean]

Oh, yea sure
I kind of assumed it was about them chatgpt derivatives

[haughty slate]

If I wanted to learn a language of a slightly lower level, what would be the differences between C, C++, C#, and Rust as options, and actually should I learn base C before going into the other options, or just jump into the one of interest directly

[magic palm]

i personally only recommend C. because its very easy to learn. and everything else is just a more abstract version of it.
and if somebody said that memory management is hard. slap them in the face because that a total lie.
memory management is the easiest thing in the universe. and pointer are fantastic

[brazen island]

C# is a high level language, it doesn't really fit in that list.

C++ and Rust have many features which is good and bad at the same time. Significantly increases the learning curve.

Learning C the language is "easy" because it doesn't do a lot, there's not a lot of features. This is also exactly what makes it hard to work with. You have to do so much yourself that C++ and Rust do for you.

[true harness]

it's just factually untrue that memory management is easy. so many exploits are caused by memory mismanagement. buffer overflows are the biggest example

[haughty slate]

So C if I don't mind reinventing the wheel often for different programs and C++ and Rust if I wanted to instead spend that time learning already made tools to do what I want to do?

[true harness]

in terms of careers, rust still doesn't have a lot of opportunities right now. C++ and C would be much better ideas currently

[dense mesa]

I don't see as much for C as there is for C++

[haughty slate]

How different are Rust and C++? Well, aside from the tools already made for C++ and the community

[magic palm]

the best way to learn how the wheel works is by reinventing it.

[magic palm]

C++ is just a wrapper around C. there is nothing really interesting about it.
but Rust have a different approach. its has barrow checker and what not

[fleet reef]

wat

[magic palm]

what what?

[summer roost]

depends on the industry. C is used much more heavily than C++ in the embedded space, and a C-like subset of C++ is still used in a lot of safety critical applications

C++ is not a wrapper around C. It's radically different language.

[magic palm]

what are you talking about mate 😂
Linux is written in C and a little bit of Rust.

C++ is mostly used in game dev. because its has classes thats all

[true harness]

we should move the discussion of language features/merits to a different channel. except the career relevant parts

[dense mesa]

I have friends in tech recruiting for both hardware and software, at least in London C seems much less prevalent than C++

[summer roost]

interesting. I've heard about much more C being used on the embedded side than C++ (and even when C++ is used, it's usually a very minimal subset with no RTTI or exceptions or dynamic allocations). But admittedly that's not my industry, and perhaps things are changing in ways I'm not aware of

[magic palm]

wait. what was the main discussion? 😂

in terms if career choices. if you wanna go to game dev and such pick C++
if you wanna go to this new startups chose rust
and if you pick C, there is a lot of old code that need maintenance.

[summer roost]

interestingly, the Arduino IDE's language is C++, but I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of Arduino IDE users don't know that, heh

[analog sun]

Hello, this is not the server you are looking for

[vapid jay]

then what server can i look for in

[lyric onyx]

https://www.tradermath.org/mental-math/flow-traders/math-test/dashboard
first try

janestreet internship incoming?!?!

[minor sage]

C++ is just a wrapper around C
me when I spread misinformation on the internet which results in real world bugs

[minor sage]

C# has basically no relation to either C or C++. It's basically Microsoft's version of Java.
C++ is a monster of horrifying complexity which takes years to learn. If you just want to get somewhat lower level than Python as a learning exercise, I don't recommend it.
C and Rust are acceptable choices but are wildly different, with Rust being closer to C++ in terms of abstraction.

[haughty slate]

Yeah that was my mistake rip, didn't actually look into it just associated it with the other two, only experience with it is through a little Unity shenanigans

I decided on starting from C to get a really good basic foundation and then after seeing if I concurrently learn C++ and Rust until I decide which I prefer

[minor sage]

C will probably give you the most education, because it forces you to actually deal with things that Rust wants to hide from you.

i.e. you actually allocate and free memory, instead of using a class that does it for you

Don't make the mistake of it being a low level language though, because it isn't.

If you treat a pointer as being "just a memory address" you WILL get very opaque and confusing bugs.

[haughty slate]

yeah rip I recall from asking earlier, low level is only assembly and machine language and isnt portable across machines right?

[minor sage]

There are low level languages that are not assemblies, but people mostly don't deal with them by hand.
LLVM for example, which is very similar to common assembly languages but is not specific to any particular arch.

[true harness]

"high" and "low" are always relative

[brazen island]

This is getting a bit off topic guys, you can continue this in #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[magic palm]

🤣

[summer roost]

take it to an off-topic channel if you want to continue the discussion

[magic palm]

nah

[violet magnet]

What if i scrape job listings and generate wording in my resume targeting the companys post. Still manual read and adjust before send

Surely the best are already doing this with good tooling

[minor sage]

Presumably what will happen is you will get blacklisted for being a spammer

"The best" don't need to do this because they're not desperate

[violet magnet]

But spamming your resume is already the default thing you do. Reducing time to apply if you can is just smart

You obviously have to have a human element

[fringe sphinx]

Not sure the question. If you're saying: "Should I apply to lots of jobs and fine-tune my resume for each of them?", I guess why not? What's the opportunity cost?

[minor sage]

it really isn't, unless you're desperate to get basically any job you can.

Mostly I fail to believe that the time investment would be worthwhile when there are arlready plenty of services for aggregating postings for you to apply to.

[gritty rivet]

I suspect that putting the same amount of time into actually networking with human beings could yield 10x results vs. the automated spamming strategy. Quality beats quantity in this realm. Although it may depend on what you're actually looking for, etc.

[smoky quest]

Spamming is sending unwanted applications.
You want the opposite: you want applications people want and would be interested in

[violet magnet]

Thats probably valid. But it would be fun and cool once finished. But the time spent refining it... you should probably just spend applying if that is the goal

[true harness]

if he's still manually reading and adjusting I don't see the problem. they're just making their own aggregator

[violet magnet]

Yeah. I should look at what others use first tbh

[green leaf]

Hey, has anyone here ever worked for LA County as a developer? I have a friend with an in-person interview coming up with them next week what to expect?

[violet magnet]

What do they use

[smoky quest]

tbh, if you are at the stage where you try to fine tune it to get any call back, that's already a flag you have bigger problems

[true harness]

I considered doing something like this but it's just not worth it imo. better to actually improve your resume

[violet magnet]

I only just started trying to apply this week and idk what to expect, to me its just like sending messages on a dating app to see what happens. I want it but dont expect it.

[smoky quest]

lots of people will be out until the new year...

[fringe sphinx]

Also, you can post your resume here for review, if you haven't.

(for feedback, not jobs)

[violet magnet]

I could do that maybe when im on pc

[violet magnet]

I could add more projects to this if that would help. But I can't add formal education, and I have no related work history

[smoky quest]

Claiming to be seasoned means you have a wealth of professional experience

[violet magnet]

that's fair. its always difficult to know what is an acceptable amount of talking yourself up. I do feel like I have spent a long time now thinking about software more than a normal person. But I still agree that its exaggeration.

[smoky quest]

are you spending more time than an engineering student who thinks about it full time for 4 years, during which they will think about it hard when hurrying up on their projects until 3 am or prepare for exams?
Because that's the bar for a normal person 😉
Joke aside, it might be hurting you since there is a disconnect between being seasoned and not having any relevant professional experience.

In terms of project descriptions, I feel like it's missing something.
Maybe somethings along the lines of:

• docker-compose means you haven't deployed your stuff in a cloud across multiple machines, and as such dealt with related problems
• Same thing with sqlite. It's great for embedded DB but not so much for real life
• It may help to quantify some of the stuff. Ex: how much bandwith/time/other do you save by efficiently caching stuff. And any interesting ways in which you did cache these things?

[fringe sphinx]

Or salty /j

[smoky quest]

would be cool to describe what problem you solve with rabbitmq for instance

[harsh river]

why are you talking about @salt.die like that?

[violet magnet]

Ive spent more than 4 years being singularly fixated. I'm not wanting to be egotistical here, because I'm a newb compared to prolific developers of big things that did all of it while younger than me. But if you're comparing me to the average CS graduate, I guarantee I can compete in practical knowledge with many of them. But that isn't saying so much about my talent as theirs.

That aside, I think you are ultimately right about that I should change that part and I'll look at that.

As for the docker part, yeah. I develop on my system, I deploy to one environment. Definitely not seasoned. All I know are my own networks, yeah.
The sqlite bit, I threw that in there to say, "It's a data driven program and I wrote the tables and SQL" ... but maybe you're right that name dropping sqlite3 is pointless.
The last part, it's pretty simple. I characterize the views by how likely a user is to frequently load them. If its less frequent, I hold the api response in local storage and use it.

[smoky quest]

It's less about minimizing your efforts and more about helping folks realize how high is the bar.
And right now, your resume is not better than those of new grads that I receive. It doesn't mean it's bad, it just means your competition is high.

I would suggest to take your apps and to deploy them on AWS.
Make sure there is CI/CD, tests and observability. It will also help you appear stronger with more experience

What makes the professional experience so valuable is that it comes from real world issues.
That means having had to update a schema while the system is running, troubleshooting weird bugs that happen when the system is in use (and sometimes only at scale!), having to develop practices in your architecture, testing and coding to minimize said bugs, or even developing practices for what works well in terms of designing APIs.
There are opinions and practice you can only get when the rubber meet the road for your code and that will show in interviews

[violet magnet]

yeah definitely know that I do not compare with someone that has even 6 months experience on the job.

[smoky quest]

Deploying to AWS will get you closer to it 😉

[violet magnet]

hm, I will have to look into that. I would never opt to use AWS on my own projects but that's a good point.

I sort of think the only way in if I'm being real is to just make every opportunity to network. Stop spending all my time being a nerd, and socialize. And find the person that will get me a chance.

[smoky quest]

that could help.
I still would prioritize the projects, a good resume and some great interview skills

[violet magnet]

yeah. Well, it's unlikely that I'm going to stop working on things. I'm definitely thinking about the next project for the first time through the lens of, "How is this gonna look", and I might not always do things the way its the most fun for me. And we'll see if I end up sticking with it when it's some AWS thing I hate vs linux system admin which i love.

[smoky quest]

It might be useful to work on projects that will either highlight some of the patterns (ex: idempotent message processing with rabbitmq), or some depth (ex: implementing paxos, some other distributed patterns, or even writing your own programming language)

Since you already have some breadth demonstrated with your current projects, you could go deeper to demonstrate depth there

[violet magnet]

I think it make the most sense to do more with django and react since those are the things people are actually hiring for that im qualified to do.

[junior laurel]

Thanks 👍

[fickle mango]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-car-silly-silly-cat-chipi-chipi-chapa-chapa-gif-7059294450246938370

[regal axle]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[violet magnet]

imo the biggest shortcoming of my projects in terms of using them to get an enterprise gig is that, I do not write tests. I fully get why they are important and Ive observed how many people care about that more than anything. So its definitely the thing that makes it obvious my experience is amateur experience.

As for observability, I use sentry. I think falls more under "monitoring" but I'd be lying if I said I fully understand the difference. That's another area where I admittedly lack skill, is my servers are not used at scale.

[woeful topaz]

Hey everyone, I'm trying to get some real experience...Does anyone happen to know if there are any available intern position available... doesn't have to be paid..I just want to learn on the go..

[dense mesa]

Hey, I DM'd you about this a couple days, you may have missed it 😀

[proven crest]

A great way to get real experience is contributing to open source projects

[hearty island]

here we go guys, huge interview today

wearing a suit

[white relic]

this isn't a channel for memes

[violet magnet]

wait so i have to wear a suit? Okay I give up, this isn't for me. 😜

[white relic]

really depends on the interview situation

[hearty island]

lolll for the place i'm interviewing for it's probably required

[violet magnet]

nod nod

[hearty island]

they said business casual but the way they said it was "at the minimum" so

[violet magnet]

right

[regal zodiac]

Come with me, let's commit several frauds together 🫴

/s and /j in case it's not clear

[white relic]

the usual advice I've heard is to dress for the interview "one level up" from the job

[hearty island]

i felt like a dress shirt would be too little

[white relic]

how you know how people dress on the job is a you problem, I guess

[true harness]

stalk their linkedin

[hearty island]

can't, no one says they work for the org i'm interviewing for. it's not encouraged

[regal zodiac]

Dress exactly like the interviewer and adopt their mannerisms as soon as you can

Then take their place and thats how you get a job

[hearty island]

makes me really question about what i just got myself into lol

[violet magnet]

Why wouldn't they?

[hearty island]

reasons i can't really say

[violet magnet]

If I got a SE job I would need to be able to cling to the identity of someone with said job so that a future of jobs would open up for me.

[hearty island]

honestly this interview could be casual asf or the most intense interview i've ever done

panel hour long interview, they could hit me with 15 questions

[violet magnet]

good luck. I'm not even thinking about interviews yet, if I think about it I just get anxiety.

[hearty island]

thank you 🙂

[violet magnet]

Okay so Im trying to reword the opening line...

Im considering moving from

"As a seasoned Full Stack Engineer and adept Linux System Administrator, I bring a wealth of hands-on experience in developing robust web applications and ensuring seamless operation of Linux-based systems."

to

"Aspiring Full Stack Engineer with a strong foundation in web application development and Linux System Administration. Passionate and dedicated to honing my skills, I bring hands-on experience in creating robust web applications and ensuring the seamless operation of Linux-based systems."

Do you think its better to own my lack of experience directly in the opening statement?

Also, do you think calling myself a linux sysadmin is just noise that doesn't add anything? I do have experience with linux and im very comfortable in that environment but im not applying to be a system admin.

[hearty island]

honestly idk, the questions they presented on the call beforehand were soooo basic. but there's not much they can ask within an hour

[violet magnet]

Most likely if/when Im in that situation, I will just try to relax and not over think it. I could choke, but I usually do well when academically tested. Its going to be a situation where either i know it or i dont, and I just have to be relaxed, and if I dont know, I have to explain how Id approach learning / refreshing my memory.

I think the thing I worry about most is being asked about stuff I have rarely though about, like very low level CS stuff that you dont think about while coding in JS or Python.

At some point Ive gone over those subjects, but am I an encyclopedia of knowleldge about them? no. What I would prefer is they stick to the web where I will excel.

[violet magnet]

So maybe it would be bettter to not mention rabbitmq at all, since I basically just plug it in and use it as in. On the other hand, something I did that was custom is I rewrote the Django email backend to be used asyncronously with celery powered by rabbitmq. In order to do this, I had to serialize into json instead of pickle, since modern versions of celery will not play nice with pickle. It also encrypts the messages since they are passed on the network. https://github.com/divSelector/webchain/blob/main/back/users/backends.py

Do you think it would be better to talk about stuff like this?

[fringe sphinx]

Not answering this, but answer the resume part: the main thing your resume lacks is a sense of time & experience. Can you include date ranges for the projects, or anything to convey experience over time?

[violet magnet]

ah yes. These projects are all from the last year.

[fringe sphinx]

Generally: I would look at this resume and wonder where the second page is. There's nothing about education, there's nothing about work experience, etc.

[violet magnet]

Those are things I do not have. I could put work experience on there, but I dont see how my work experience would help me to enter this field. If anything it would elicit judgement immediately to talk about it since my work experience is very blue collar. I'd almost rather be percieved as someone who just hasnt hasnt started working yet.

[fringe sphinx]

But you haven't.

[hearty island]

work experience is important, blue collar or not imo

[fringe sphinx]

I think it's better to be up front about: I've self-studied this, and are looking for an entry role / chance to prove myself.

[hearty island]

and i agree with billybobby, the education needs to be on there (if you've finished college but you could list it partially too)

[violet magnet]

I was in college around 2006-2008. I was doing liberal arts because I was just a kid with no idea what I was doing. I got arrested for having marijuana on campus. I quit school. My entire life became paying legal fees, not having help from family, it changed tthe trajectory of my life. At this point though, that's a million years ago. But nevertheless I didn't finish school because of it.

Okay so maybe the key is to frame my work experience in a way that sounds acceptable.

[fringe sphinx]

First: I feel you. College didn't go so well for me, first time around.

[hearty island]

i understand your experience too, i bombed cs my freshman year and had to switch schools (to a worse one imo)

[violet magnet]

I think what I may end up doing is include certain jobs Ive had but not include others.

[fringe sphinx]

Second: your situation is not that unusual. A lot of people career change into tech. Just make it clear in the resume that's what you're doing. Landing a corporate SWE job is going to be very hard... if I were you, I'd target QA, support or operations roles where tech knowledge is valued and get a little experience on that resume. And use that as a stepping stone.

[violet magnet]

yeah that is probably a good idea tbh.

[azure heart]

I used to work in a lumber mill. Said enough was enough, moved across the country and went to animation school. Now I do programming 🤷

[fringe sphinx]

(I know I've said it before: I ended up in the military)

[vapid jay]

guys is this generalchat?

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion

[violet magnet]

Ive thought about going back to school, but I just feel like Im too old to put work on the backburner to do school full time. The only reason Im considering this is, programming has become a huge part of my life, and I hear stories of self taught people getting jobs and figure why not try.

I do think the transitioning into the tech industry even if its not a programming role is possibly a good play because then I dont have to be ashamed of the experience and will also get more networking opportunities that are relevant.

Weirdly, despire being in my late 30s people think im a maxium of 25 when they meet me so.

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't stress it. Plenty of career changers in tech: competency is valued above all else.

[violet magnet]

It seems like what Im hearing though is looking good on paper is valued over all :P

[fringe sphinx]

This past year has been the worst job market for entry-level SWE positions that I've seen (I wasn't hiring during the dotcom bubble, but I don't recall it being this bad). Supply and demand has definitely made it really hard to break into a SWE position.

[violet magnet]

yeah i feel that.

it'd be cool if I had gotten into software a little sooner. I didn't get into it with the intention of looking for a job. It was more like... at thte point of deploying my site, I realized why don't i do this for a job

[near ocean]

Keep in mind for every story of a self taught person making it there are thousands if not tens of thousands that dont
Its a hard life

[violet magnet]

Alright so here is another question.

lets say i shoot for something more realistic like support, etc. Do I talk about my SWE hobby projects in the same way or does that make me seem overqualified, like a failed Engineer?

[gritty rivet]

I was in my late 30s when I broke into IT as a laptop monkey, and early 40s when I finally became a developer. My team lead is almost half my age but nobody cares

[violet magnet]

yeah I have no problems with taking orders from people younger than me. Too old for that :P

[gritty rivet]

If you're going for a general IT support position, showing that you know how to code on your resume is a plus, but don't overdo it, for the reason you state.

[violet magnet]

yeah

[gritty rivet]

Have you looked into the ConpTIA certifications? Those are pretty valuable for general support. I got way more callbacks once I finished my A+ exams.

Or if you want to focus on cloud stuff, AWS or Azure certs. But that's almost as hard to break into without experience as SWE is

[violet magnet]

yeah, so like... I have several friends (who don'tt code) that broke into different tech roles starting with support, and they always suggest certifications whereas developers are the opposite, they insist those are a waste of energy usually

[white relic]

sounds about right

[gritty rivet]

That's exactly right. The cloud certs don't hurt for devs but they're not that highly valued in dev roles. IT support is very different that way. Certs aren't everything but they can definitely help you a lot when you want to break in or move up

[fringe sphinx]

also, "programming" certs don't count for much in either role, imo

[gritty rivet]

And the other factor to be clear about here is that truly "entry level" roles are much more common in desktop support than in other areas of tech. Pay is lower, but if that's ok for you right now, it is absolutely going to be the easiest way to get into tech work.

A self taught programmer with as little as 6 months of general IT support experience is probably a much better candidate for most SWE roles then one with only blue-collar work experience

[violet magnet]

for sure

[fringe sphinx]

** I hired one of my top engineers out of a helpdesk role at a big tech company

[violet magnet]

yeah the thing that sucks about that approach, is that I would transition from a job where I'm comfortable, at peace, happy into doing something where I don't think I would be happy, on the chance that it would make someone consider me for a role i would find more fulfilling than what im doing now.

I think its maybe worth a shot since I could always come back to what im doing now.

[junior laurel]

Is competitive programming worth it?

[fringe sphinx]

Worth what? It doesn't pay well 🙂

[gritty rivet]

If you're in a good spot already, and you know SWE is where you want to go, then the road through IT support is much less attractive. You have the luxury to play the long game instead and just focus on your coding portfolio and networking.

Breaking into development from outside of tech is absolutely possible, just takes more investment in your skills upfront

[violet magnet]

The investment in my skills is not going to stop either way. If God came to me and told me I will never work in software, I willl shrug and accept it and go back to doing what I have been doing.

its honestly somewhat pathological tbh

I have to force myself to make time for life sometimes.

The thing I worry about though is that tI will not get any networking opportunities with software people in my industry

[gritty rivet]

Maybe you've seen this because I share it often, but it has really great advice on the networking piece: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-software-engineers/

[violet magnet]

ill read it

[white relic]

It's worth asking whether there are opportunities you can take in your current role to be more involved in the software side of things.
I don't know what your current job is, but everybody needs software. Maybe there's some angle where you talk more to the vendor about your company's needs, and that might lead you in the direction you want to go without having to leave your current role.

[gritty rivet]

The TLDR is that there are lots of ways to connect with opportunities like contributing to open source, blogging about what you're working on, etc. and in the current market this is absolutely critical.

[violet magnet]

I could potentially reach out to the people that make our software, but its a third party, not internal.

[white relic]

maybe they'd be open to having a domain expert on staff who's interested in making their software work better for people who know the industry.

[junior laurel]

Preparing for. I am interested in developing aptitude but i am afraid that the learning process might consume too much time which might not let me better my Github profile

[white relic]

not saying you should go straight to a vendor and ask them to poach you, lol.

[gritty rivet]

@violet magnet I don't know where you're located but meetup.com has loads of relevant local groups, and dev.events is great for finding bigger conferences

[fringe sphinx]

I don't do cp, but I think that's a fair concern. CP isn't representative of SWEing (neither is leetcode). Good skills and something to do for fun if you're passionate about it, imo, but not at the cost of other growth.

[fringe sphinx]

but @azure canopy might have another opinion (apologies for tag, but saw you in pydis and thought you'd have an opinion)

[violet magnet]

I live in San Antonio, not too far from Austin Tx.

[violet magnet]

do you think I should port blogs like this one to something more professional like Medium

https://divsel.neocities.org/neoring

[gritty rivet]

You definitely have some local groups then: https://www.meetup.com/find/us--tx--san-antonio/technology/

[near ocean]

Medium is definitely not a professional platform lol
Its quora tier

[junior laurel]

True

[violet magnet]

well, I see Medium articles as highly untrustworthy and written by people who are trying to make themselves appear better than they are, but to some extent that is why i thought of using them lol

[lapis wind]

Some medium articles are good, but there are a lot of ones which try push for clicks more than usefulness

[violet magnet]

yeah. It might make more sense to just pull my pelican config off the back burner and regenerate some of the better things ive written about what im developing on a more professional looking design and just host it on github pages. I love neocities but it's definitely not the kinda place you send a potential employer to.

[gritty rivet]

I don't think the platform matters that much personally, but having your own page/domain is a big plus if you're trying to do anything web related.

[violet magnet]

I have this https://neorings.org

[near ocean]

It kinda matters cause medium has a gate for some articles unless youre a paying customer

[regal zodiac]

what's this

i see melon, i'm hungry now

[violet magnet]

it's a modern version of webrings.com which was a 90s site that was used to affiliate pages.

[gritty rivet]

So that's a project and that's good. But a lot of people have a personal website which highlights / links to their projects, and your blog could potentially be hosted there as well.

[violet magnet]

So I have a personal site but its kind like... it's not intended for employers, its too fun for employers

I would need to... make it less fun lol https://divsel.neocities.org

[gritty rivet]

This is the template I use for my portfolio site. I don't actually use the blog feature, but it's available. https://github.com/suyundukov/hugo-sustain

[regal zodiac]

the hell is neocities

[violet magnet]

yeah... I have one that is made in pelican and it looks significantly more professional but its not as fun to update.

[regal zodiac]

wait you made this?

[white relic]

like geocities, but neo

[regal zodiac]

what's geocities >:(

[violet magnet]

This is the more professional one I quit updating as much

[gritty rivet]

Fun is ok if it's not distracting. This seems ok at a glance at least

[violet magnet]

I feel like I walk the line between fun and outlandish very well

[near ocean]

It looks fine to me minus the weird alignment at the top

[white relic]

was a big part of the web back in the day. late 90s/early 00s. basically a web hosting service

[regal zodiac]

like ancient github.io?

[white relic]

@regal zodiac ^ should have been a reply

[violet magnet]

no

[azure canopy]

Here are my 2 cents: DSA/CP tends to be overweighted, and some concepts like big-O are useful to know in general so it's good to at least get the fundamentals down. But I personally find DSA/CP very uninteresting and do as little of it as possible, so don't feel forced to grind it out like some people do

[violet magnet]

geocities was web hosting for people who are not developers. Back then it was more common for average internet users to know enough htmtl to make a page. So lots of academic people did it. Lots of teenagers did it. I would say the current neocities demographic is... teenagers who are learning webdev via an interest in tech nostalgia.

There are others but that is the largest demographic

[regal zodiac]

so what hyponspace outlaw is based on

[violet magnet]

possibly lol, I believe ive seen that before

in any case, being on that site comes with an assumption that you're an amateur. But things have changed since 1999, and it's not seen as just amateur land, though it's also that. It's also just people who are nostalgic which is very in these days.

The strangest thing about it is how... its not mainly a bunch of old people living out their youth. Its mostly youth who are exhausted with social media and vicariously living through nostaliga they dont remember

[regal zodiac]

sounds cool, i would've loved to have grown up in that age of the internet

[violet magnet]

its very intersting phenomenon. You are not alone

[regal zodiac]

problem being

even if i was born in the right era, i wouldn't or even couldn't have experienced it

the internet in general was not really welcoming to non-english-speaking people back then

[fringe sphinx]

hah. I did (well, earlier) but I wish I grew up in this age of the internet & tech.

[regal zodiac]

huh, god bless my memory

sure enough, my password works

[hearty island]

finished my interview!

[regal zodiac]

how did it go

[violet magnet]

not me. I take pride in not being a fossil who refuses to adapt, but there was beauty back then that is dead imo. The web is destroyed in a lot of ways, turned into something it was never intended to be. I miss the days when tthe only people who spent time online were academic sorts. Now we have... internet pranksterss and people that cant use a web browser because they only know smart phone apps

[gritty rivet]

Interesting... A little off topic but makes me think of telehack, which replicates the pre-web internet I'm just barely old enough to remember

[fringe sphinx]

The web was always a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

[violet magnet]

fair enough but at least back then, you had to be passionate about getting online to do it. Now its justs a common vice.

[hearty island]

think it went ok, at least i hope so

[slim sphinx]

Is there anyone who can help?

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[gritty rivet]

You're in the career channel. If you have a career question, just ask. Otherwise, you want a help channel

[light lava]

why am i muted

[gritty rivet]

I dunno, but you're off topic here.

[peak halo]

see #voice-verification

[pliant wasp]

Guys does the title of your bachelor's degree make much difference?

[hearty island]

what's your title?

[pliant wasp]

Electronics and computing

[hearty island]

i think it's fine

[fringe sphinx]

Why do you ask? (Ie: are you picking the major vs already graduated?)

[pliant wasp]

Haven't taken admission yet, the university is pretty competitive. Will try to secure admission in software engineering but just in case I'm not able to, would this be a fine backup option?

[pliant wasp]

Picking the major

[pine sleet]

are you in the US by the way?

[pliant wasp]

Nope, a third world country

I will try transferring to Computer engineering in the second semester but they don't offer that in the spring semester

[fringe sphinx]

The title does matter, to some degree. ECE has particular fields/career paths which are a natural fit. CS/SE is ‘better’ if you just want to be a SWE, but ECE is certainly a diff major that prepares you for certain jobs

But there’s a lot of crossover, and the freshman year courses are probably very similar.

I’m not saying anything wrong with ECE, just saying the curriculum is geared for a certain career path.

[vapid jay]

hey guys I have question as a newbie

are there any problems we could solve by AI

[pliant wasp]

Gotcha bro, thanks!

[wet birch]

yeah

[vapid jay]

like?

[fringe sphinx]

This is the #career-advice , perhaps you want the general #python-discussion channel or AI: #data-science-and-ml

[wet birch]

robotics

Is going to a good college important in the US for a further good career?

[gritty rivet]

Sure. A lot of things are important but that's high on the list

[white relic]

"a good college" being basically any with an accredited 4 year program

going to college is important. Going to MIT or Berkeley isn't.

[fringe sphinx]

What's the question? Good college, or going to US, or both? I assume from phrasing that you're not in the US.

[wet birch]

Yeah, i am in highschool now but it seems like going to MIT is great and also looks very good for your CV. But it is a big step and you have great colleges in Belguim too. So is it worth going to a "good" college in America? That was my question

[fringe sphinx]

You’re in Belgium? I know there’s others here from there, so hopefully they’ll comment

[white relic]

are you planning to move to the US regardless? I understand it's easier to get a student visa than a work visa.

[grand skiff]

Whatever the hell you do (besides murder), Good luck

[wet birch]

No, it is just a thought. I am probably going to do my bachelor here, and then see if i want to go to the US

But i still got a couple years in highschool

[grand skiff]

Listen, I live here, so I can give you advice: we kinda suck but don't let that stop you

[white relic]

that doesn't sound like very actionable advice

[wet birch]

What do you mean that you guys suck 😂

[grand skiff]

We aren't as nice as I wish we were

[fringe sphinx]

Are you talking about Bostonians?

!mute 467181769159081995

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @deep herald until <t:1703014225:f> (1 hour).

[grand skiff]

Uhhh.. No. I don't know where you got that from

[white relic]

I know people who moved to the US for graduate school and rolled the dice on being able to get a job with visa sponsorship before their student visa ran out. I know people who studied abroad for a year and said it was the greatest experience, but didn't move there permanently. If you're just pursuing the experience, and you have the opportunity to study abroad, I think it would be a great idea. But as for whether studying in the US is important for your resume - well, there's just a lot of factors that influence that.

If you want to get a PhD for instance, which specific university you go to matters a lot more, because the available resources and faculty will have a bigger influence on what you can specialize in.

[wet birch]

Thx for your advice

[analog sun]

!rule 9 6 please respect the server rules

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vague jolt]

guys what do you think about deep work?

[thorny hound]

Oh oops. My bad. Is there a channel here where this is allowed?

[analog sun]

No

[fringe sphinx]

What does that mean?

[vague jolt]

its a book by cal newport on spending a lot of uninterrupted time on work

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. Fairly old concept. Hard in this day of always interrupting tech. To quote the master (Knuth): "Email is a wonderful thing for those people whose role in life is to be on top of things, but not for me: my role is to be on the bottom of things."

[vague jolt]

which ones better? to be on top of things or bottom? being on the bottom feels like missing out on stuff and causes FOMO

[fringe sphinx]

🤷🏻

[regal axle]

Someone needs to be at both locations. It’s up to you what you prefer and what you want to achieve.

[vague jolt]

what can I achieve by being on the bottom?

[regal axle]

Foundation, stability, and reliability. You might not be working on the coolest new thing that pops up, but you properly get the things in front of you done. And in a reliable way

[gritty rivet]

Directly solving hard engineering problems requires focus. I definitely prefer that over managing other people and/or juggling too many priorities

[deft herald]

Work life balance. Maybe the people on the very top have a pretty good work life balance but generally, the higher up you climb the more responsibilities you have and the harder it is to maintain a good WLB. Not to say you cant, but it's just something that can be increasingly difficult to do

[deft herald]

This is also a very true point

[coral spade]

Hey guys, besides python what other languages should i learn to make programs and for messing around?

[regal axle]

Are you looking to make a career from programming? If so “don’t learn languages” and just focus on fundamentals (so maybe learn C(++) since it forces you to learn lower level stuff). If you just want to do it as a hobby,,, then it all depends on what type of programs you are interested in making

[coral spade]

For now ig just learn the fundamentals

[violet magnet]

Just learn something. If you try one thing and it doesn't work out, keep trying.

[coral spade]

That's the thing idk what to try

[violet magnet]

once you learn the first anything, the next thing is not tas hard

well python is easier to move quickly and learn to do a lot fast it, but you skip software fundamentals maybe sometimes to do that. But you can continue learning in any direction

[coral spade]

Except for python

[violet magnet]

Is there still such a thing as a sysadmin in terms of job title? are those jobs easier to get than swe?

[minor sage]

Yes and probably no, respectively

[tacit cave]

Never give up and keep smiling 😉

[storm forum]

Meow

[vapid jay]

You guys I need some advice on how to get started in coding. I’m coming from an electrician background 😬

[tacit cave]

Learn the basics of programming

once you learn that you can google the rest

[vapid jay]

What is basics of programming? Sorry I am completely new to this 😞

[near ocean]

!resources look at these

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[tacit cave]

You should not need to appoligze.

[vapid jay]

So algorithms??

[near ocean]

read the entire list, 3rd item down is the most popular beginner book on python

[vapid jay]

Okay

[fringe sphinx]

The usual recommendation is: pick a resource from that link. Automate the Boring Stuff and A Byte of Python are popular. Go through the book and do the practice problems. When you get stuck, ask for help in #python-discussion : you will get stuck. Don’t worry about the next step until after you get through it.

[tacit cave]

Tbh make it your desire to learn cause that will push you the most.

[vapid jay]

Also is knowing python itself good enough to have full time work?? Or do I also have to learn 5 more other languages to actually land a position???

[near ocean]

knowing just python probably wont get you a job no.

nobody pays for people who can only use one specific hammer

[fringe sphinx]

My usual speech: there are many jobs in tech. Programmers (SWEs) is just one of them, but so is tech support, QA and ops… jobs with lower barriers to entry. Landing a SWE job today usually requires a 4 year degree, it’s not a particularly quick process.

So, if you’re interested but want to switch careers soon, then you could look at the jobs with lower barriers as a starting point. Or, start practicing and studying, but know that it’s a longish path for most.

[vapid jay]

Can you mix python with actual machines or electronics?? I have electronic/electrician background and was thinking of learning python will help me in this part

[turbid bobcat]

https://micropython.org/

Tho python wouldn't be my first choice for embedded

[tacit cave]

Tbh though knowing python can make your job easier. I have written scripts to copy files and open tools. But now I do use bashscript for that 😉

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, 100%. I forgot one part of my speech: that the best way to transition is to leverage what you already know. Don't "start over", but "build from", if you can. There are some EE, ECE and CE folks around here who might have more knowledge.

[turbid bobcat]

I'm confused, you use bash for embedded ?

[vapid jay]

Exactly my approach I truly don’t want to completely start all over but kind of complement what I already know

[tacit cave]

I have bash commands that do what my python scripts do

Navigating to directories, opening up tools, or copying files I need to certain locations to run on a virtual embedded system, etc.

But I plan to do some rest api in python, sql, and discord bot when I get home from work.

[fringe sphinx]

No matter what, I'd still say: Go through the tutorial books and learn basic programming. Don't overthink it, just get literate. Then, you'll be able to ask better questions.

[vapid jay]

Thank you I will do this 🙏

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah that makes sense. If I'm not mistaken, not every computer will have py, but most will run bash

[tacit cave]

We do have py but bash scripting is faster

[fringe sphinx]

And use #python-discussion . There are so many helpful people in the channel to help with any programming question.

[tacit cave]

We are all here to learn and be supportive uwu

[olive thorn]

Hi, I'm learning python, and am working everyday through the Python for Everyone(Py4e) course on coursera.
If you'd like to share, what kind of career pathways have learning languages like python afforded you?

[turbid bobcat]

I've used python in a professional setting for ML and backend eng. For frontend stuff I've used JS and TS and for embedded I've used C.

[vapid jay]

is it possible to find a job at 16

i've been doing this since i was 9 and really starting doing complicacted projects/contribs at 14

[fringe sphinx]

A job doing what? Programming?

[vapid jay]

yea

[vapid jay]

i mean theres a huge list of programmers and defintely a 16 year old teenager wouldnt be exactly the most impressive and its a hassle to have a minor in a team

[lone turtle]

Hey guys

Do u know if there is such a thing where you can work for free to gain experience in programming?

[true harness]

you pretty much said it yourself. there are tons of programmers with the same experience + more education + aren't minors that companies could employ

you might be able to find internships though

[balmy spade]

Other than doing side-projects?

[lone turtle]

Yes

[vapid jay]

try freelancing but do sideprojects first to prove ur good

[lone turtle]

I did some, what side projects would be good to make to prove that I would be suitable?

[true harness]

it is a thing, but i would recommend not working for free

[vapid jay]

I mean side projects are cool but are u confident u have problem solving skills

[balmy spade]

Suitable for what?

[lone turtle]

I am currently working on them

[vapid jay]

what exactly do you mean working on your problem solving skills?

[lone turtle]

Leetcode

[vapid jay]

oh leetcodes cool yea but i feel like theres some weird standards

[lone turtle]

And codewars

[lone turtle]

The internship, but I do not know where to look for

[balmy spade]

What internship? What job field are you looking into? It's difficult to suggest anything without some details.

[stoic atlas]

I would suggest looking for apprenticeships over internships, they're basically the same thing but internships are geared towards current undergrads while apprenticeships are for everyone else

[fringe sphinx]

Also, helps to tell us what country.

[stoic atlas]

although they're much rarer

[vapid jay]

well internships are usually for people studying and your education has a huge thing to do with wheter or not they accept u

[true harness]

this is country specific though. in the US, apprenticeships are almost nonexistent compared to internships, and internships are almost always for college students only

[stoic atlas]

yeah, I gues "almost nonexistent" is more apt of a description that "much rarer"

[oak reef]

what do you mean with weird standards?

[vapid jay]

Okay is there any language where it could land you a job by knowing only one??

[fringe sphinx]

You're an electrician. That's like asking... I dunno, I need to think...

[pine sleet]

there might be. but employers don't usually hire you for the sole reason that you know a language

[summer roost]

yes, but most professional developers use multiple languages

is it possible to find a job where you only ever use one language? absolutely. But they're a small minority of all software development jobs

[fringe sphinx]

(I'm failing in my analogy, but see ^)

[vapid jay]

So what else languages besides python one should know?

[fringe sphinx]

I guess similarly, you can go to trade school to learn the basics... but, you still apprentice and learn the real job.

I dunno, that's terrible. I give up.

[pine sleet]

depends on what you want to do

[vapid jay]

learn 2 languages for every stack minimuim and i guess try to learn one high level and one low leve

[summer roost]

if you're determined to learn as few things as possible and still land a job, JavaScript is probably a reasonable starting point. There are a lot of jobs that use only JavaScript as a general purpose programming language, plus some markup languages and domain specific languages like HTML and CSS

[oak reef]

yeah, you can, but maybe you may need some others skills, such as knowing about the cloud

[fringe sphinx]

When you asked a few hours ago, and my advice was: learn python basics and then ask these questions. A lot of people start over-thinking and trying to map out a roadmap before they know some of the basics... it leads to endless over-analysis.

Once you get a little experience, the path becomes a little clearer. I know that's not very satisfying.

[vapid jay]

But what if python itsnt the way for me? @fringe sphinx that is why Im trying to understand if learning the basics which does take a lot of time will be beneficial itself to land a job and get me out of my shitty ass job 🙃

[oak reef]

he right, even before learn some lang you should have solid knowledge about data structure

[pine sleet]

it's not generally beneficial for employers to hire someone that just knows the basics of one language

[fringe sphinx]

This comes up a -lot-: the worry over ‘am I taking the right first step’

[pine sleet]

they need good engineers

start with Python though, it's a great language to take that first step

[fringe sphinx]

Python is the introductory language in many computer science programs: it’s where most people start.

[vapid jay]

well i think to start dont get overwhelmed @vapid jay learn to enjoy programming or it'll never workout

[pine sleet]

or don't, it's up to you. but as long as you're learning something that's time well spent

you probably won't find a job just knowing the syntax for Python but you've gotta start somewhere

[oak reef]

all languages are similar, only you've to understand the syntax

[pine sleet]

not necessarily, the syntax is probably the least significant thing about a language imo

[vapid jay]

I think the problem is not seeing what I could do with these tools. Hard to know what I’m coding for and where they can be used is what is confusing

[oak reef]

and practice every day!

[fringe sphinx]

Isn’t that comparable to new electricians (your industry)?

[pine sleet]

this is a common feeling when people want to "learn a language"
don't "learn a language," make a project. build something cool

the learning will happen naturally and you'll find yourself more motivated

[oak reef]

I think that's the first step, define a project, that can help u to improve your skills

[pine sleet]

yeah, and make sure it's once you're actually invested in

you can also put this on your resume later on if it's good, two birds with one stone

[summer roost]

understand, this is why most programmers use multiple languages at their job. Different languages are better at doing different things, but most programmers have jobs that require them to do a lot of fairly different things

[vapid jay]

Not really, coding is just a total different world. Not even comparable. There is no road map to choosing a language I think.

Its sometimes nice for someone to be like “you could do these cool things by learning this language” I wish there is some resource so I could know what to focus on exactly

[fringe sphinx]

We gave you a bunch of resources earlier: that was my advice- finish an intro tutorial and -then- start asking these questions. It’ll make a lot more sense once you have the basics.

[vapid jay]

there isnt when i started off building games i understood what a server was and a client and some basics which led me to get straight into webdev and vice versa, you dont have to follow a roadmap

[vapid jay]

Okay I will just give this a try🙂

[oak reef]

good luck!

[fringe sphinx]

#career-advice message see this. I really mean it, you're asking perfectly normal questions, and it'll become a lot clearer after you go through the basics.

[pine sleet]

and try a project or two. it may sound strange, but: you don't know what you don't know

[vapid jay]

I want to truly combine a language with my electrician background but not sure where this fits in. That’s my actual goal. I want to still stay as an electrician but more on the tech side

[pine sleet]

well, that doesn't sound quite right, but what BB said. once you have some more experience it'll be clear what you need to do / work on

[vapid jay]

Wait I should start with this one?

Okay I will start with Automate the boring stuff 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

!resources was the main place to start. On that page, there are two ebooks that are popular: "Automate the Boring Stuff" and "A Byte of Python": I suggest picking one of those and going through it - do the practice problems.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

I will start with the “Boring Stuff” I’ll give this a try for one month and see how it goes 🙏 thank you 😬

[turbid bobcat]

I'm finally getting good at leetcode and am now dedicating my afternoons to ML project. Hopefully this will all be worth it. Sigh

[oak reef]

https://neetcode.io/roadmap

that is a good roadmap for leetcode

[turbid bobcat]

I've finished the leetcode-150 list, and am in the middle of leetcode-75, which I'm melting like butter

Only concern is dynamic programming, I'm sure it will slow me down when I get to it

[oak reef]

ohh cool

[turbid bobcat]

Once I finish leetcode-75, I'm gonna do dynamic programming in all mornings, first theory then practice.

[minor sage]

Hardware hacking is a thing where they might intersect. It's quite niche though

[turbid bobcat]

For ML I'm focusing on the transformer, I'm studying, coding and training nano GPT to get a deep understanding. Then I'm gonna modify it to understand two sequences and that will be the PoC for my real time LLM voice chat project. After that I'm gonna do the Quantum Neural Network thing, which is not gonna take long because tensorflow quantum is a thing. Polish some of the other projects too and I should be ready to start applying. I'm hoping to get these done before new years eve so that I can start applying early January.

[light sequoia]

Is it necessary for a full stack developer or front-end to know about maths and data structure also does it ask in interview question

[smoky quest]

it depends on the job, the level of experience, and what is the implied level of math and dsa

[amber surge]

Hey guys, I recently turned 18 and I’m new to coding starting with python. I would like to pursue a job in this area in the future, is python what I should be learning or is there another language which I should be learning?

[smoky quest]

Python is great to get started!

Note that a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation for your career.

[amber surge]

Right, thank you, is python highly used in companies?

[smoky quest]

it's very popular

[amber surge]

Great

I always wanted to have a job where I work remotely, how possible is that if I ventured into programming?

[smoky quest]

It's possible, easier once you got some experience.
For your early stage of your career, it's better to work on site though

[amber surge]

Right, thank you so much 🙏 @smoky quest

[buoyant seal]

math depends on a job role/domain.
data structures i would say a more obligatory basis every dev should know 😅 because it is only one of foundational bricks to learn more topics after that for writing some quality code.

[dusky dune]

what are the most demanded jobs by 2025? (i am still doing igcse[15yo] and is already forced to pick my future occupation so what do yall think will be the most demanded by 2025 :>)

ping me

[buoyant seal]

important choosing not just what is in demand,
but also what u love and good at.

question yourself for a start, which subjects in school u liked 😉
try to think also of any secret desires/wishes u had for what u wish to work with.

Then u could order this stuff by what is good paid and u could get a good job towards which to move.

[buoyant seal]

The most demanded job is probably COBOL programmer 😅
Ancient programming language 50+years old, which is in demand in USA because they still did not updated their banking applications and people don't seem to be learning this language any longer.
I would not really recommended learning COBOL nevertheless though

[dusky dune]

Okay Thank youu

[hearty island]

guys i made my interviewer laugh yesterday

they asked me how do you communicate with someone who doesn’t share your domain? and i said well i believe that you have to focus on what they want out of what you created. like for example, the power bi dashboard i created i didn’t explain how all the data interacted together and how i created all the KPIs/cleaned the data

so i was like it’s like selling someone a pen. you don’t care about how the engineering works behind the pen, how the ink flows from the start to the tip. you care about what you can do with it, and that’s writing

it was the super serious interview so i was so surprised when they laughed

[buoyant seal]

is there a question?

[hearty island]

nah just news

[solemn umbra]

Curious about Python developers here newly looking for careers or jobs, what sorts of jobs are you preferably looking for?

A. work with established businesses.
B. work with a startup.
C. working alone as a consultant

Add an emoji with A, B or C to this message.

[high palm]

Hello, generally speaking, I got into IT about a month ago, and I've been learning JavaScript for about a week now. I'm getting the hang of CSS and HTML to some extent. Now, the question is: if I'm mainly looking at it from the perspective of earnings, it's well-known that backend pays better than frontend. However, in my situation, if I were to immediately look for a junior position after learning the first language, would it be better to continue learning frontend and gradually pick up backend over time, or should I switch to backend right away and focus on scaling my career in that direction?

[white relic]

Both are good options, it depends on what jobs are available and how urgently you need to find one.

I'm not a huge fan of the "learn X to learn Y" approach where you want to learn Y but start out by learning X instead because somebody said it would be easier that way or whatever. So if you have the option to start learning "backend" (whatever that means to you; I don't find it a particularly useful category) and it is your career goal to be doing backend dev, IMO, go for it.

There are multiple reasons for this, including that you're less likely to become burnt out if you're learning something interesting to you, and a self-taught person just starting out is by definition a poor judge of the difference between useful background knowledge and fun but irrelevant trivia.

On the other hand, if you need a job immediately, and the ones available to you are mostly frontend, well, beggars can't be choosers. But the market right now is not particularly friendly to any kind of dev just starting out, so you should be prepared for it to take a while either way.

[gritty rivet]

Nobody can really answer this for you. If you'd prefer to focus on the frontend, do that. If you'd rather switch to backend do that. If you're trying to be a full stack web. engineer, you don't need to master HTML or CSS in great depth but need to master JS.

What matters is that you're learning and at what pace. What you're learning is less important.

[high palm]

ok , thx for answer

[proven crest]

They're both competitive fields and you're brand new. At your stage I think dipping into both is a good idea to see what you enjoy working with more.
I started with Python (just as a side hobby and to automate some boring tasks at work) and I really enjoyed it. I started learning HTML/CSS/JS around a year later to try to get into development full time, I quite liked JS but hated HTML/CSS. I found it an absolute chore and slog so I quit and focused on Python.

Point I'm making is if I started on html/css/js, stuck with it and never tried Python, I wouldn't have learnt as much or as quickly at all since I didn't enjoy it. Do what you genuinely enjoy and the road will be far easier IMO.

[weak viper]

wheres machine learning?

[white relic]

I don't understand the question. Are you asking about where to find career opportunities in ML?

[gritty rivet]

#data-science-and-ml

[cunning shale]

If I wanna look for research ideas would this channel be the right place? It's just a research project for my school, on which I will be working for a year

[true harness]

question to ask yourself: "what was my favorite class and why?"

[cunning shale]

Probably robotics & autocad
They were fun but I also wanna put my coding to a challenge

wait that's a good idea, ty

[supple rover]

I'd say project structure, code structure, computational complexity and developing your own projects. These project you develop should put you in situations where you have to decide which tool is better to solve your problem. Which api would use etc... this would give you a better prospective and I believe it could help you

[white relic]

this is what internships are for: getting a taste of real world experience before you graduate. what year are you?

my field isn't related to coding
oh, kind of missed that... I'm confused a little bit. Are you hoping to earn side money coding until you get a degree in (whatever other thing)? That's difficult even for people with relevant degrees and experience, it's a long game. Or are you hoping to make a switch into software once you graduate? (better to switch sooner if you can)

[cedar stream]

What are the best programming fields to get into for freelancing? I used to freelance making web scraper apps for clients but I have decided to quit web scraping for some reasons such as being illegal/unethical in my opinion and a little boring. I know python html/css and a bit of js (planning to get better and learn react).

[pseudo bone]

is it worth it to get PCEP at 15 or should I just like learn more deeply Python or a new language?

[gritty rivet]

Nobody cares about PCEP. Focus on building stuff.

[gritty rivet]

You can get a very good and direct understanding of what's in demand (and who you are competing with) by browsing Upwork.

[subtle stirrup]

anyone here knows php?

[gritty rivet]

This is a Python server and you're in the career channel. Try #ot1-perplexing-regexing if you can't find a relevant server. You also may want to ask your actual question directly (assume someone does know PHP, then what?)

[pseudo bone]

ik but PCEP is pretty cheep

also better to have like at least one certificate than none, it says something ab experience? idk but who would trust 15 yr wanting to have an intership, just my though idk tho

[smoky quest]

In the grand scheme of things, you should aim for a CS degree as it is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.
As such, you still have plenty of time and by the time you reach your 20s, what you did at 15 years old will be so tiny comparing to what you will do then that it won't matter.

that said, if you want to do the PCEP for fun, go for it!

[cedar stream]

the biggest field ive seen in freelancing sites such as fiverr/upwork in not even just programming but might be the biggest field in freelancing is wordpress, though I'm unsure if its worth it or not since it is oversaturated as well

web scraping is also a big field but I don't want to take part in it

[pseudo bone]

yeah, i definitely want a CS degree, thanks for you though i might try the PCEP free course on netacademy (CISCO) and i'll see where that will take me

[autumn halo]

guys, if you went back to the moment you started python for the first time, what would be the first thing you would learn?

[gritty rivet]

The same basics every course teaches. Data types, control logic, etc.

That's a bit off-topic here though, maybe try #python-discussion

[autumn halo]

oh oops, thanks!

[jaunty nest]

Whats the best way to get a career in coding if I haven’t gone to uni

[dense mesa]

Bootcampsay not be as popular nowadays, but there's some universities around the world that offer free entry if you can pass a test

[fringe sphinx]

The usual answer is: go to uni. If you don’t have the time/privilege, there are lots of jobs in tech. It’s not just coding: qa, support, operations, etc all teach valuable skills and provide valuable experience -while- studying or preparing for programming. But, no matter what the first step to a career in coding is; learn to code.

[minor sage]

make acquaintances

One personal recommendation from someone already inside a company that wants to bring in additional devs can get you in

Look for local communities

[summer roost]

right. There's no magical trick to getting hired without a degree. You just need to find a company willing to hire you. Maybe that's a company that values your previous experience in whatever job you were doing before you decided to start coding, maybe it's a company where a current worker can vouch for you, maybe it's one that hasn't hired many devs before and doesn't know how to evaluate their skill levels, maybe it's one that's growing desperate and struggling to find someone who's a good fit...

[smoky quest]

also time to bring up that hope is not a strategy.
So congrats on making the first steps to figure out the requirements! It will be a long but fun journey

[summer roost]

there's a lot of web dev jobs in the world, and a lot of small companies that want to have a custom website and don't need the best developer in the world to help them make it. If you're determined to make a go of it without a degree, JavaScript might be the single language that has the best chance of helping you get your foot in the door.

[minor sage]

I mean I'm not a job market statistician but the number of green JS devs looking for their first job is enormous. I feel like blending into that crowd might be unproductive.

For every 1 fresh JS developer with no piece of paper to vouch for them, there are probably 900 who have a piece of paper that vouches for them.

It might be easier to stand out in a market that's not quite so congested. I have a hard time thinking of one that's more oversupplied tbqh.

[smoky quest]

it's a bit of a flow problem: what is easy to reach has a larger pool of applicants

[wary laurel]

Hi guys, not sure if anyone has any input:

I am currently learning python and I enjoy it.

I got accepted into a coding bootcamp called northcoders.

They have a few different bootcamps but the two that interest me:

1. software dev
2. data science

The downfall is that their fullstack dev is totally JS, they dont teach Python. Only their data science teaches python.

Although I wasn't intending to do data science but wanting to learn software development I guess I will just go into data science because I hate JS? and I don't see myself doing well in JS - i tried it for like 10 days.

So if anyone can shed clarity:

1. Does JS really suck that much compared to Python?
2. Is it highly probable to do the Data Science bootcamp and cross over to software engineering after? I guess relates to; how much cross over is there between software engineering and data science

[safe coral]

First of all, data science requires a lot more than Python @wary laurel You need to be good at linear algebra and statistics

Bootcamps that teach data science without math knowledge is useless in my opinion

[wary laurel]

do python liking-people find JS sucks? or they're normally natural to learning it

[safe coral]

https://northcoders.com/our-courses/data-engineering-bootcamp is it this program?

[wary laurel]

I think just transferring from python which seemed very natural and logical to JS made me feel its bad

[wary laurel]

yes
seems like data engineer not even science lmao

[safe coral]

Okay so this is a data engineering bootcamp not data science

They are different areas but for data engineering the curriculum looks good

Data Science puts more emphasis on Machine Learning, AI, Statistical Methods, Algorithms, Natural Language Processing and Reinforcement Learning @wary laurel

[wary laurel]

do you think I shouldnt overthink the JS part?

[safe coral]

Where’s the JS part? I don’t see it

[wary laurel]

for software engineering course

https://northcoders.com/our-courses/skills-bootcamp-in-software-development

[safe coral]

I dunno why the emphasis is on JS for software development

[wary laurel]

exactly, even for backend lmao

[safe coral]

Is this free for you?

[wary laurel]

yes

[safe coral]

Oh if it is free I’d go with data engineering!

[wary laurel]

interesting, why ?

[safe coral]

I mean that one looks the best

You learn JS Python and SQL

[true harness]

it's a commonly used backend web dev language

[safe coral]

Yeah it’s for web dev tho

[wary laurel]

you reckon i can transfer from the data engineering to a software dev if i graduate from the course?

[safe coral]

I dunno why they call it a software engineering bootcamp @true harness

You would think they would put C++ or Java there rather than JS. The title is misleading

[true harness]

web development is software engineering

[safe coral]

True but I believe he doesn’t want web dev

[wary laurel]

I dont know what i want exactly but yea web dev doesnt sound as challenging as i hope

[safe coral]

Designed to help you adapt
While we teach in JavaScript, our tutors are experts in a range of languages. We teach in a way that makes learning new languages natural. Three in four Northcoders graduates code in a language other than JavaScript.

3 out of 4 graduates code in a different language

🧐

[wary laurel]

yeah i dont think soo.. lol

[safe coral]

If they code in a different language upon graduating why teach JS? I mean I guess it’s a good starter language to learn?

So my question is how old are you? @wary laurel

[wary laurel]

27

[safe coral]

Do you have any previous programming experience?

[wary laurel]

no just learning of udemy and mooc a bit

[safe coral]

So you are planning to switch careers?

[wary laurel]

i think i'll be decent at programming, nothing too special because of a late start

[safe coral]

27 is not late. I started coding at 28

[wary laurel]

yes i did maths at college, i was good, but after that I went into social sciences. I do think i'm a naturally good problem solver, i'm good at business skills and logic

I find coding in python natural. sure there's a learning curve but nothing too bad

[safe coral]

So your undergrad is math?

[wary laurel]

when i was 17-18, no undergrad is politics related

[safe coral]

Okay cool!

So if it is free I would choose Data Engineering but that’s me. What do you think @true harness

[wary laurel]

you think that would still give me the foundations to be a software engineer?

[safe coral]

So software engineering is different than data engineering

You learn different skillsets

If you want software engineering, you can start with their web dev program software engineering and go from there

[wary laurel]

what if i attend their software engineer camp and supplement that with python self learning ?

[safe coral]

That program will give you the foundations to be a software engineer

Yup. Go for that program

[wary laurel]

and their data engineering will just keep me in data engineering, right ?

[safe coral]

Do you know JS? And yeah it’s more restrictive than software engineering

If you don’t know JS, it’s good starting language that will help you understand other languages quicker

[wary laurel]

I tried it for 10 days, but i found my first 10 days in python a lot more easier

the way you write loops in JS is just weirddddd - it put me off

[safe coral]

Python and JS are similar tho

Both of them are not OOP

[wary laurel]

so I should just attend the software engineering bootcamp and not cry about it being JS ?

[safe coral]

Yup

[wary laurel]

give your opinion too buddy @modern geode

[safe coral]

  // Runs 5 times, with values of step 0 through 4.
  console.log("Walking east one step");
}

[wary laurel]

i get that, but its just overload . lol

[harsh river]

hm, data science doesn't particularly require math, depends on the DS you're doing imo

[safe coral]

It looks pretty similar to loops in Python

As a matter of fact looks easier

[peak halo]

I hate C-style loops
All my homies hate C-style loops

[wary laurel]

do they hate JS loops too ?

[gritty rivet]

Maybe, but you don't have to

I did the Nucamp Backend bootcamp, have been working as a developer for almost two years and still don't know much JS

You should follow whatever interests you most... with an eye on the job market of course

[safe coral]

Loops in Java looks like that tho right? @peak halo

[peak halo]

Oops, for some reason I thought I was in pygen.

It does require math. Especially statistics. Who told you otherwise?

[wary laurel]

software engineering interests me more than data engineering

but

python interests me more than js

[peak halo]

Frankly, "data science" never should have entered our lexicon, as there is no "science of data" that is a separate thing from statistics.

[gritty rivet]

Focus on what you want to build, the choice of tools will follow

[wary laurel]

riddles

[true harness]

the language you use matters very little

[fringe sphinx]

You want to build riddles?

[wary laurel]

hes talking in riddles lol

[fringe sphinx]

How many roads must a man walk down?

[peak halo]

He isn't, though. Put another way, he's saying "pick between software engineering and data engineering, and use whichever language happens to be used for that"

[wary laurel]

haha i get it

Career path > language - thanks guys

[fringe sphinx]

It’s also funny: when you’re starting, the hard part seems to be the language… but that passes quick, and then you’re faced with the real hard part: thinking.

[gritty rivet]

"career path" might still be overthinking it.... Do you want to build interactive full stack websites? Then like it or not, you need JS for that.

[wary laurel]

what if i want to do software over websites?

[gritty rivet]

Then you might want to concentrate on a different language altogether, but Python is a fine place to start if it's engaging you right now.

[wary laurel]

thats true, but it was more of a choice out of the bootcamps

[peak halo]

are you preparing to sign up for a bootcamp?

[wary laurel]

i guess i'll do the software engineer bootcamp and supplement the python, by learning that at home

[wary laurel]

yes i got accepted. the choice was out of:

1!) Data engineer in python
2) software development in JS

[peak halo]

You got accepted to a bootcamp? since when do they have admissions criteria?

[wary laurel]

they make you do an entrance exam

[gritty rivet]

I think there are some non web-oriented bootcamps that do Java or C# or whatever but that kind of development is less conducive to bootcamps because there is more to learn. You should consider a degree.

[peak halo]

@wary laurel if you don't already have a degree, I think it's doubtful that doing the bootcamp will make you more attractive to hiring managers

[lucid vapor]

Can you clarify what you actually mean by software here? Web is often considered software, and software could be desktop apps or mobile apps or operating systems or any number of other things.

[wary laurel]

i have a degree but not in CS - the point of a bootcamp is strict learning

[violet magnet]

do web apps count as embedded software because they are embedded inside of web pages :P jk

[fringe sphinx]

Good luck, btw. If you haven't programmed before, it'll be hard at first: but if you're committed, you'll get through it like everyone else does.

[wary laurel]

i have done the basics of python on w3schools found it easy, did like first 20 days of angela lu and doing mooc now

[fringe sphinx]

Nice. Have you looked at the CS50’s?

[wary laurel]

too old for that to wait another year

[peak halo]

be sure to double-check your understanding of basic Python against another resource--w3schools is full of partially incorrect information.

[violet magnet]

erm, you might want a better resource than w3schools btw. Their python exercises are notoriously wack as hey-ell

[wary laurel]

i'll attempt it after mooc, i found it too long, didnt concentrate too much and i found others on reddit saying its not a good starting point

[wary laurel]

yes agreed, doing MOOC now

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, the real secret sauce is writing code, not courses. Here’s a link with some project ideas.

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[wary laurel]

thanks, i'll do them once i understand syntax properly

im hoping to complete MOOC then move on to my own projects

[gritty rivet]

An accelerated MS can be cheaper then a bootcamp, and will open a lot of more doors

It would probably take you a little longer though

[wary laurel]

bootcamp is free. i am considering a CS conversion course, for the sake of CV but that will start semptember wheereas bootcamp is in march

[near rapids]

is using chat gpt for coding considered cheating

[summer roost]

in the context of jobs and careers, you'd have to consult your company's policies. Lots of companies expressly forbid the use of AI coding assistants, out of both fears of leaking the company's intellectual property to 3rd parties, and out of fears of accidentally using copyrighted code regurgitated by the LLM without a proper license

[true harness]

many schools have policies against generative AI. my school bans it unless allowed by the instructor. it's considered cheating

[rigid robin]

Im not sure if this is the right place to ask, but what do you have to learn to be a data engineer and is it a job worth it? My first interest was in being a data scientist but i was not 100% sure on what it really is.

[smoky quest]

if you like the role, it's worth it.
Beyond that, it depends on your criteria for being worth it.

To know more about it, there is the fantastic book fundamentals of data engineering

[rigid robin]

Thanks

[minor sage]

More like a giant waste of time

If you are supposed to write something by hand and don't then you can expect to be fired or given academic discipline.

If you are allowed to use it then it's fine, even though it's usually not actually useful unless you're basically just writing pure boilerplate.

[spare bane]

hi guys, just got into a bachelor of engineering course mastering in robotics and AI, was wondering what some good resources to prepare for this would be?

[white relic]

Congrats! How much time do you have before you start?

[forest echo]

Would being a OS engineer would profit in long time ?

[harsh river]

eh, i doubt it

[smoky quest]

there are a bunch of engineers being paid to work low level stuff, including OSes. So in that sense you would profit from here since you get paid in exchange for your services

[forest echo]

Oh! So what low level stuff they get paid for ?

[smoky quest]

In terms of low level, there is a lot of work related to embedded

[forest echo]

Uhhhh

Im kinda new… like whats embedded

[real grove]

Hello, im a high school student (18 years old) and next year i chose to do Internet of Things, Big Data, Machine learning in a university here (3 years) to then do Cybersecurity and AI. Do you think it's a great choice for a good working carreer or not? Tell me as much as you can please, even personal experiences.

[smoky quest]

it's stuff where the computer is invisible. Like in airplanes, watches, robots and even your car

[forest echo]

Oh so hiding the computer with embeds

[river prism]

good question. I have a similar challenge. I've also just started learning Python (1 week in). I'm a Cloud/DevOps engineer so learning Boto3 (AWS SDK for Python) is a priority for me and I also want to learn the basic Python things. The way I'm currently dividing my study time is, during work hours I spend some of my time learning and using Boto3 to do basic aws tasks. Outside of work, I'm doing exercises and learning Python basics. Hope that helps brother.

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't suggest trying to tackle web apps when you just started programming python. Django is a lot to bite off.

The usual advice is: learn the basics (ie: A Byte of Python or Automate the Boring Stuff are good free ebooks), and then do some small tasks. CptTurk's plan above makes a lot of sense: boto3 can be used for small / basic tasks.

After the basics, small projects or some practice problems like https://inventwithpython.com/pythongently/. Something that you can do in a day or so... not something that'll take you a week at a time.

[lean hawk]

I'm 17 (turning 18 next year)
And I think you should go into a college/university and perhaps get an internship to see if you'll fit the job, if you're doing it for the money and you end up hating the job, you'll end up not doing well in it
For Cyber security being a good field to go into?
Yeah, it pays well though I'm personally more into software engineering.
If you have the motivation and dedication, you can make it

[grizzled parcel]

This is a full stack Web and Mobile App Developer.
Let's create a dynamic product together.

[peak halo]

that is, concentrating in robotics and AI? because "master" means something different from "bachelor" in academics.

[hardy flint]

Hey, i am coding in python for a while now, i think i know the language well and have made some projects too.
Now i wanted to learn web development, there is this course on youtube of like 80 videos teaching html, css and js. It is very detailed.
I remember many people telling me learning your second language is much easier.
So now when i have experience with python, do i really need to take a detailed course like the one i talked about or it will be fine if i just watch one of those 2 hours long videos talking basics.

[cosmic summit]

I guess it all depends on your experience. If you have a solid understanding of the fundamentals, you might not need any videos at all. The way I go about learning a new language is just going straight to the documentation. However, if you prefer videos, you might be ok with skipping to the language specific features parts and skip the fundamentals.

[cosmic summit]

By the way, if you go the documentation route, MDM is an awesome resource for web stuff. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/

[cosmic summit]

They also have some guides if you preferred tutorial like content: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Front-end_web_developer

[spare bane]

I start in february!

[spare bane]

the course is a bachelors in engineering with masters in ai and robotics, ie once you complete the course you are awarded all of those qualifications, its still just one course though

thats just how uni works here in aus ig

[regal axle]

That make 0 sense based on American academia

[fringe sphinx]

You mean "majoring" instead of "mastering", I think. Or, at least in US terminology.

[fringe sphinx]

But, regardless: Do you know a programming language?

[proven crest]

If you’re well versed in Python learning another language will be easier because you’ll know how to think programmatically. You’ll know what an integer, float, string, bool, list, dictionary, set, class, object etc is and how to use them.
In that sense you’ll find JavaScript easier than if you were starting without any of that knowledge, it’s mainly the syntax that’s different. That being said, it’s still a whole new language. Practically 3 taking HTML snd CSS into account (they not languages, but for the sake of argument they might as well be). You’ll also need to learn how they all interact with each other. It’s a big task, I’d take your time and go through the detailed course.

Although realistically, the other one is only 2 hours. Go through it and see how you get on.

[safe coral]

Yeah! Programming languages are important part of AI @spare bane

I’m confused that it’s a course tho @fringe sphinx

One course grants you a bachelor degree?

Can we see the info about this program? @spare bane

[white relic]

In some locations/dialects, course can mean a course of study, i.e. a program.
I'm also curious about the "bachelor with masters" thing though, maybe it is a combined bachelor's+master's program.

[fringe sphinx]

From phrasing, I assumed: bachelors degree (not course) with a major (not master)

but 🤷

[worldly sand]

uh guys where do i go to seek help?

[analog sun]

#❓｜how-to-get-help is a good spot

[worldly sand]

thanks

[real grove]

Thank you, and yes im really appassionate on that field

[hardy flint]

i see, youre right, i think language can be learned just by documentation.
my bad too that i failed to explain.
i actually want to learn web development and for that i want to learn JS. So i just realized maybe i can learn JS just by documentation but for concepts of web development like OOPS and async programming i should learn from videos. Thanks man

[hardy flint]

yeah, i want to learn web development and for that i need to learn JS, and i think i should find take a detailed course on web development instead of a course on JS.
So what i think is i should focus more on learning web development concepts rather than learning java script, right?

Thanks guys, now i know what to do

[lean hawk]

You're welcome, and good luck

[proven crest]

Web development is a broad field, but JS is a very important part of that, equal or arguably more important than web development concepts. They are after all just theory. JS is (part of) where you put it into practice.

[buoyant seal]

i would prefer to disagree. U can do fine in web development without learning mess of javascript @hardy flint
As long as your interests remain backend development, or DevOps engineering.
U can still do even fullstack/frontend applications in a fully fledger manner by just using WASM frontend tech that allows NOT using javascript for front 😊
( web front in go or in rust with yew or leptos
Or going with simple html/css/html-forms/htmx web sites.
It would be preferable to learn at least... basics of javascript nevertheless (Head First Javascript book has sufficient level of knowledge)

You are obligated to learn javascript if Frontend development is your main specialization though (Full Stack devs i would say obligated too, because full stack dev is usually just frontend dev under the hood that learn very small bits of back anyway). Usage of WASM is very niche case (not every usage case can allow itself having 20mb hello world hehe). Even in this case, u can augment your JS experience with Typescript 😉

[severe halo]

Hello, perhaps someone could give me some advice.
I hold both a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree in computer science and worked as a Web Developer specializing in Javascript (React) and ASP.NET while pursuing my Master's. As I am currently reconstructing my resume, I'm contemplating whether to include Python / C++ / Java. My experience with Python and the other languages is limited to classroom use and home assignments—I understand the syntax and some libraries covered in classes but not much beyond that. Should I still include Python and the other languages on my resume, or is it better to focus on languages in which I have proficiency, such as Javascript and C#?

[buoyant seal]

i would say it is preferable including only languages u wish to work with.
Are you comitting yourself to defend your skills in Javascript/C#? yeah, we include then.
That you have a solid background in other langs is sufficient to show by just including your master's Degree.
If you are ready to commit youself working with any of other languages u barely know, but ready to learn til you are hired or during hiring, then consider including one of the other langs (if you are trully committing yourself to learn one of them and it is your current self studies, and will be ready to may be even defend your skills in them during interview)

[proven crest]

He wanted to stop Python and start working with HTML / CSS / JS. I’m saying in order to be proficient with those tools, you need to know JS, not just web development concepts.

[severe halo]

Gotcha, thanks

[buoyant seal]

oh, so he was saying web development, but was meaning frontend development then. well, let him do what he wishes then.
if he wishes learning frontend then it is frontend and js.

[proven crest]

I would assume so if you’re trying to learn HTML/CSS/JS you have an interest in front end, but really it’s not relevant. Maybe he just wants to learn to develop with those tools. Either way, the original question was regarding how to approach learning to develop with those tools coming from a Python background.

[buoyant seal]

Nothing is better to start that than Head First 😊 (at least if u are able to read books)
https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-HTML-CSS-Standards-Based/dp/0596159900
https://www.amazon.fr/Head-First-JavaScript-Programming-Morrison/dp/144934013X

[real grove]

oh and btw, i was looking for a great pc and i'm in complete love with the new Samsung Book 3 Pro (16gb of ram and i7 latest gen).... since my whole ecosystem is samsung.... what you think?

[lean hawk]

I haven't really heard of it, but I have been looking into the Asus G14
It's promoted as a gaming laptop but it doesn't look like one

I plan to get the 2023 4060 model for college

[real grove]

damn thats cool xd led backpanel?

[lean hawk]

Yeah, some models have it but some dont

Mine won't have it sadly because it cost a lot but it still looks nice

This is the normal one without it

You can't see it, but it has an effect that starts once light hits it or something

Besides the temperatures when gaming, it's the perfect laptop for me

The camera isn't ass like most laptops, the performance is pretty good, and the screen is unmatched
Pretty sure this is more powerful than the alienware 15 inch

Best part is, when it's on sale, it's nearly 1k

[hearty island]

@white relic omg, i got an offer!!!

[white relic]

That's great news! Congratulations!🎉

Secret one?

You said It felt they were moving fast

[hearty island]

yessir, but uhg reached out and said i’m a top candidate for their role too

i got a difficult decision to make

but ik what i want i think

[wooden karma]

I am now available to solve all your problems

[proven crest]

I have haemorrhoids if you can help

[dense mesa]

<@&831776746206265384>

[wooden karma]

**I am available to work for you on your projects at a very cheap price **

[violet magnet]

I was preparing to send an application to a very good software company for a position im actually qualified for (not software) and I was looking forward to that..
It was a "Support Engineer II" role for USA, Remote at Github. And it was support via email primarily.

If anyone comes across a posititon like that at a company that woulld put me closer to software (idk whyy you would) please share it.

Oh, I forgot to conclude... The posting went down when i got home from work today :(

[pine sleet]

!rule 9 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[wary laurel]

has anyone switched from JS to python ? and found it easy

also has anyone switched from software engienering to data science or devops ? and found the transition smooth

[gritty rivet]

A lot of full stack devs use both, so the question of "switching" doesn't make much sense

[gritty rivet]

"DevOps" as a job title is particularly vague but many such roles require SWE experience

[smoky quest]

I switch languages all the time and it has never been an issue

[fathom surge]

What are some good python projects to read?

[buoyant seal]

https://github.com/encode/starlette

The little ASGI framework that shines. 🌟

Starlette is BSD licensed code.
Designed & crafted with care.
— ⭐️ —

[keen ingot]

Hey there, i had a question regarding a job role in general.

Can a "software developer" refer to themselves as "software development engineer (SDE)"? In general, a "Software Engineer" is different from a "software developer" applying the basic principles of engineering and working on a larger scale altogether. But does a "software development engineer" inculcate the same meaning as a "software engineer" in overall by any chance since it has the term "engineer" in it?

And how would a "software developer" job role be abbreviated as?

[fringe sphinx]

The industry uses lots of terms that mean the same thing, there's no standards. An SWE and SDE are the same. "Engineer" being in or not in the job title doesn't matter, in and of itself.

[gritty rivet]

What country? In the US such titles are near-meaningless like BillyBobby said but from what I understand the use of terms like "engineer" are highly regulated in some places

[keen ingot]

I'm from India.

[violet magnet]

The word engineer is completely meaningless at this point. The guy that works at Subway is a Sandwich Engineer.

[near ocean]

Not everywhere
There are countries that protect the engineer title

[violet magnet]

I see.

[hearty island]

dumb question, but how do i deal with a conditional job offer from one place and an actual job offer from another? do i accept both?

[near ocean]

What are the offers and whats the condition

[hearty island]

the conditional offer has tons of employee benefits

[near ocean]

So this isnt like "pass x class"/"get y grade"
Are you not expecting to clear this condition?

[hearty island]

ah yeah sorry i am expected to finish my college degree, which i plan to graduate in may 2024. i did well this semester besides one A- 🙂, everything else was all As

[near ocean]

Ok i dont think a condition thats basically just paperwork counts as a condition

[hearty island]

ah i see, ok

[near ocean]

You could accept, ask for an offer letter to sign, if that makes you feel better

Verbal consent doesnt mean much imho 💀
Not that a signed offer letter means much more but...

I dont think an offer letter is anything legally binding but its better than "their word"

[hearty island]

you’re correct, but i’m not a lawyer so

[proven crest]

willing to pay $15 if you can develop a middle out compression algorithm for me.

[fringe sphinx]

Generating an offer letter, especially for large organizations, requires some internal processes (approvals)... so this doesn't surprise me.

[hearty island]

i see

[analog sun]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fringe sphinx]

For most orgs (US/ime), offer letters aren't binding (like mar said)... can be rescinded at any time, it's just unusual, since it's gone through an approval process.

[near ocean]

I think you should accept the conditional offer but before rejecting the other one, email HR for this one and say you accept and youre looking forward to an offer letter you can sign

[fringe sphinx]

Heck, most US workers are "at-will", so even the employment agreement is no guarantee of employment.

[hearty island]

gotcha

[proven crest]

Apologies for any confusion, it's equivalent of asking for a glass hammer
https://silicon-valley.fandom.com/wiki/Pied_Piper_(algorithm)

[fringe sphinx]

I got the reference, fwiw.

[near ocean]

American worker rights? More like american worker wants

And you dont always get what you want

[fringe sphinx]

I was trying to think of an appropriate (sfw/channel appropriate) response.. but all I could think about was the scene where middle-out was conceived.

Ok, just heed my advice a while back: do not speak of it. Nor, try to speak "around" it. Just don't speak about it.

[hearty island]

ok

[proven crest]

@fringe sphinx When do 'wrongful termination' rights kick in? Is it as soon as the employer / employee contracts are signed? Or after a probationary period?
And do they mean that much or can you just be let go with the explanation of 'its not a good fit'

[fringe sphinx]

The idea in the US is: you can be fired at any time for any reason except for certain protected reasons

So, it's on you to prove that you were terminated for a wrongful/protected reason.

to be specific, this is what "at-will" means.

[near ocean]

Why dont us peeps negotiate notice in their contract

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not sure it's true in every jurisdiction, I think there may be some non-atwill states.

[proven crest]

Ah that sucks. pretty scary.

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/employment-at-will-laws-by-state/

[proven crest]

And thats very smart. Do you think an employer would rescind an offer over asking for a clause like this in the contract?

[fringe sphinx]

If you're some lowly engineer, you're not going to negotiate wholly new terms into a contract (with large orgs)

[near ocean]

Juniors definitely dont have the pull to do this but why dont seniors do

[proven crest]

Makes sense

[fringe sphinx]

because we have job mobility?

I've never worried about finding work.

[near ocean]

You already have job mobility, this is bonus job security

Its free protections

[proven crest]

I'm pretty worried about finding work in the US. Im employed as a junior dev in the UK, but I hear so much about how hard it is to find work, especially for a Jr, especially without a degree in the US. But I'll be moving to NY in April.

[near ocean]

Besides, if people start demanding it it'll trickle down to lower level employees just like remote work has

[fringe sphinx]

You have a UK degree?

(sorry, might have parsed that wrong)

[proven crest]

No, I could get one, I only have a year left, but its in Arts, so its not really relevant. I dropped out because I had to look after a family member who was ill

[fringe sphinx]

I would think (but dunno): if you're that close, try to finish it up. Any degree is better than no degree. That gives you an opportunity to go for a masters (which may require filling in some missing pre-requisites) in the future.

That doesn't help if you're moving in April, but, some schools will let you finish your last few classes at another institution to fill in missing credits.

[proven crest]

I considered it, but it would require me to stay full time in the UK for a full year, if I was to do that, thats also a year less of job experience in development.

I'd rather consider enrolling in a remote / part time university in the US and working towards a CS degree. From what I've been told, the university doesn't really matter as long as its legitimate in terms of how it would be accepted by an employer or in further education if I choose to do a masters full time or at a more prestigious university.

But then again, that doesn't help my original worry of finding a jr dev role in the US, even if I do have a years of work experience under my belt

[fringe sphinx]

I think you'll be OK in NY finding a role, given that you have work experience. There's a lot of firms struggling to fill roles, from what I've seen, especially with RTW mandates.

[proven crest]

Really glad to hear that. Thank you for spreading positivity, its pretty easy to get bogged down!

[hearty island]

you got this 🙂

[keen ingot]

hi again, can you refer to a "software developer" as "SD"?

i hope it isn't misinterpreted as "software designer".

[fringe sphinx]

I've never used "SD" as an acronym like that, no. SWE is most common, SDE as well.

[near ocean]

Why worry about acronyms, dont they spell out what they mean?

[keen ingot]

right, however "SDE" includes the term "engineer" for which i don't have any degree yet.

[fringe sphinx]

Then just say: "Software Developer". Is this a resume question? Just spell it out, rather than use an acronym

[hearty island]

i agree w billybobby

[keen ingot]

this isn't a resume question, i'm just trying to find an abbreviation for the role of "software developer" such that i can use it as an username in my social profiles, especially on github / linkedin.

[near ocean]

Dont do that, it sounds weird

[fringe sphinx]

If you must, then "dev" is a common abbreviation.

[true harness]

why would you put that in a username anyway

[near ocean]

Aposematism 😔

[keen ingot]

honestly, i just thought of an username like "a<abbreviation here>guy", just to keep it simple.

since github / linkedin are sometimes surfed by recruiters.

i don't want to keep an edgy name whatsoever.

[near ocean]

Your linkedin should have your full name
If you dont want your name on your github use an inoffensive nickname
This isnt exactly careers related

[keen ingot]

right sorry about that, however i'm just concerned about the choice of an username abbreviation and hence which is directly related to how recruiters look at your profile, hence i thought seeking guidance from here would be best.

[near ocean]

I doubt recruiters would look at a github profile in the first place
And if they did the only thing you need to do is not have a slur in it basically

[dense mesa]

Recruiters are not gonna be checking your GitHub for the most part. They will have CRMs with your linkedin info already as well. Having anything other than your full name, or some common abbreviation, will look extremely unprofessional

[keen ingot]

i'd refer my github profile in my linked in job posting / bio either way, so there's a high chance they might as well look at it.

[sweet ledge]

Okay, so I'm starting Computer Science degree and my first class is intro to python. Would python be a good career path?

I've dabbled a bit in js, and some python basics

[analog sun]

I don't think your first language will determine your career path to be honest

[keen ingot]

definitely, you could pursue a career in data science or artificial intelligence in the future, just to name it.

[dense mesa]

You overestimate how much time recruiters typically have to spend on candidates

[true harness]

what does "CRM" mean?

[analog sun]

Languages are the tools, but the knowledge of computer science is the main benefit

[near ocean]

Customer relations management software

They'd have stuff like salesforce/sap to manage all this

[sweet ledge]

If I want to create a tool accountability program (check in and out tools) from scratch what language would be best?

[dense mesa]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[fringe sphinx]

From a career perspective: there's no "best" language for preparing for a career. The important thing is developing strong problem solving skills, and learning by tackling increasingly complex projects. You'll find most SWEs end up knowing multiple languages, even if they specialize at one.

[sweet ledge]

Thanks for the tip

[fringe sphinx]

I worked for years in Java development (but also needed SQL, C++, and some C# in that job), and now am primarily in Python / SQL.

[sweet ledge]

Why did you end up in python/sql? Like it better or just all that's required at your position?

[fringe sphinx]

I moved because my industry moved: Python has emerged / taken over as the main language for data engineering & data science.

But, I do like it better, yes.

[coral spade]

hey guysd

[sweet ledge]

That makes sense... would kotlin be worth it if I wanted to create mobile apps?

[coral spade]

is lua good to make random things? i've heard it's decent

[dense mesa]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[sweet ledge]

What type of job do you have? What are you creating in python if I make ask

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t know much about mobile apps

[fringe sphinx]

I’m in data engineering. Basically, I build the platforms and pipelines to support data scientists and financial analysts.

[rose heron]

Can anyone help me To learn Python?

Or can anyone recommend a website or book that you can use to learn it?

[fringe sphinx]

Could you ask over in #python-discussion ? They can provide you some links and tips.

[rose heron]

Ok thx

[sweet ledge]

That's pretty interesting! Thanks for sharing!

[analog sun]

Hello, your message has been removed for not complying with rule 6

[vapid jay]

LESGO

[fading yew]

What certifications would allow me to get and entry level job in Python and where should i start?

[peak halo]

That's not really how it works. Certificates don't have much weight for development jobs.

[fading yew]

How should i go about finding my first job?

I live in Portugal market aint that great

[peak halo]

getting a degree in computer science and doing internships while you're a student

[fading yew]

My degree is bussiness Management thats why i was asking about certifications

[peak halo]

If you were in the US, my suggestion would be to do a postbaccalaureate program in CS. idk if those exist in Europe.

[brazen island]

If you have the time and/or money you could do a second bachelors in CS. Potentially abroad if you want to switch things up a bit.

[peak halo]

(a postbac is basically a second bachelors degree, but with a more straightforward slate of requirements.)

[brazen island]

Doesn't exist here afaik. If you want a second bachelors degree they just look at what you can get credit for on a course to course basis. From business to CS you'll be able to skip at most ~ 10 % of the courses. But it also depends on the country, idk how it's done in PT specifically.

[fading yew]

In Portugal you need to atleast match a bit off the course to be able to sign for a post degree . And bussiness Management doesnt have that much to do with computer science